Dennis Rox: Confessional Self-Improvement & Psychology
Tired of self-help gurus selling fake positivity?
The Dennis Rox Podcast is a raw, confessional group dialogue that goes straight to the roots of human suffering.
In deeply introspective, unfiltered sessions, Eldar, Katherine, Mike, and Toliy dismantle the psychological conditioning, ego traps, and hidden conflicts keeping you stuck—with zero fluff and total vulnerability.
We confront the ego, relationships, identity, the fear of joy, and what it actually takes to become free.
This isn’t advice.
It’s real work.
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Dennis Rox: Confessional Self-Improvement & Psychology
112.Personal Transformation
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Are you actually changing, or are you just rearranging your excuses?
This week, the "Dennis Rox" crew dives into the core of Personal Development: the ability to reflect. Eldar and Mike challenge the common narrative that "thinking is for theorists," arguing instead that philosophy is the practical pillar of a good life. We explore the Entrepreneurial Psychology of character building, questioning why we claim to want change while refusing to sit still long enough to understand who we actually are.
The conversation takes a sharp turn when Tommy’s "artistic" aspirations are called into question, leading to a hilarious but deep debate on the D-word—danger. We deconstruct the Growth Mindset required to stop "drawing like a monkey" and start raising enough awareness to accomplish anything. From the stigma of mental health to the trajectory of "character stocks," this episode is a guide for anyone ready to make an actual shift in their reality.
Key Takeaways:
- The Reflection Requirement: Why saying "I don't have time to think" is the fastest way to ensure your life never improves.
- Philosophy as a Pillar: Breaking the stigma that philosophy is just for theorists and recognizing it as the blueprint for Self-Actualization.
- The Awareness Superpower: How raising your level of awareness allows you to navigate life with the precision of a master investor.
- The Danger of Mislabeling: Why calling yourself an "artist" or a "success" without the work is a danger to your own Personal Transformation.
Insightful Moment:
"Philosophy, I think, is the pillar to living a good life. It's to discuss life, to find out what's actually going on... I think a lot of people are doing it without actually understanding that they're doing it." > — Eldar
Are you ready to invest in your own character? The crew challenges you to look at your personal "stocks." Based on your current habits and awareness, is your future trajectory going to perform well, or are you headed for a crash?
Listen now to find out if you're making a transformation or just running in circles.
Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9
Reflecting on Personal Transformation
EldarOn this week's episode. What would you suggest to a person who's actually looking to make an actual change about themselves, about their life, about their character?
SergiyI think people should take time to reflect. Now stop, now stop. I don't have time to sit down and think.
EldarWe think that we know it all and we actually don't know shit. Yeah.
MikeAnd if you adapt this thing right In the more and more areas of your life, yeah, this will get you to the place where you want to be. Yeah, wow.
EldarIf you can raise enough awareness to yourself that this is how this works, you can literally accomplish anything which can be dangerous, depending on the choices you make.
TommyYeah, For a guy who probably draws like a monkey, he shouldn't even say the word. Artist, you shouldn't even say the word artist.
ToliyIt's becoming a danger to society.
TommyHoly moly, it's a danger to society.
ToliyOnce you hear the D word, the doctor's like 65 milligrams.
TommyThey say your fingers were made for typing. Okay, and just sick to typing.
ToliyUnbelievable. What a transformation.
EldarYeah, you were surprised.
ToliyI mean this is bad, that's regression.
EldarHow bad.
ToliyThrough the floor, are you?
Eldarserious. Yeah, we've been working for so long. That's what I'm saying.
ToliyLike you're saying, like you know, Listen whatever he's got on his mind, Regardless of what the diagnosis is it doesn't matter how low we went.
EldarYeah, you know what the shit.
TommyFuck all that noise, bro. You know what I'm saying.
EldarYeah, tom whatever it is, I'm telling you we're here with you. Yes, or no, we're definitely trying. We're trying and we're not going to give up on you.
TommyYou know that Is speaking on your behalf, so you should appreciate it. Don't look at me like you just got your own shit there, tom. There's a lot of kids that fell through the cracks Backing you up.
EldarTom, you fell through the cracks for a very long time when you were not under AFSA provision. Now that you are under AFSA provision and you're still Mike's son Wait, did Philip adopt the last episode? Okay, so it's now that you're a Philip son. You're not going to fall through the cracks anymore. You're under our watch Now. Whatever happens happens, and sometimes you were a bell.
TommyI'm a sound mind. That's all I'm going to mind, all that matters to me, right now is I'm thinking clearly. You know what I'm saying. Let the record show that I'm thinking clearly. So that's all that matters, all right?
EldarYou're thinking clearly this is very good, and you said that you're not smoking cigarettes anymore, so your judgment is not impaired.
TommyYeah, I wouldn't add that on right now because it's not relevant, but you know, oh good, fine, yeah, that's true, very good, I'm glad that you're on point.
EldarAll right. So the topic which I guess we can roll off of the fact that me and Mike and Toly had similar conversations again, which is it's a phenomenon itself where sometimes we get to the same point in two different conversations without all the parties knowing what we're talking about. Obviously you know and that was Mike. You know what I'm going towards, or no? Can you read my mind?
MikeWhat we're talking about yesterday. Try about second nature.
EldarYeah, yeah.
MikeSecond nature.
EldarSecond nature. Toly, does that ring a bell? Second nature? Yeah, and you will. Obviously, when I explain everything, it'll make all sense.
MikeWhen you were having this conversation, was he? Yeah, yeah, I used the word second nature.
EldarWas he at his lunch break? No, listen, he was present in that moment. And I think and the mission that he's on right now should solidify that he actually knows what I'm talking about. Second nature is the keyword.
ToliyWhat comes to you as second nature. You're saying yeah. You're saying like a change in identity, yes.
EldarSo what do we talk about? Are you sure he was present?
ToliyLike about the like exercising and turning into the person who's not a fat piece of shit, yeah that's part of it.
EldarYes, but yeah, he knows that's what we're talking about, right? Yeah, so what we talked about with both Mike and Toly on different occasions, without knowing that we were talking with one another, about the fact that we're talking about the stuff is that about second nature? And I broke it down to you, or you Let me know which one I broke it down to when it came to second nature.
TommyWell, the breakdown was this Can I just yell at him for a second? Why are you fucking looking at me like that? What I was playing, time was going on.
ToliyHe's giving me this weird eye. He was making weird mouth sounds.
MikeHe was doing this, like doing this. I'm sorry.
TommyI'm sorry I'm doing the. I have to now submit to the record that I had a root canal. Oh, ok, fair enough.
EldarThat's why you're like that, checking on that too. That's why it's why did they inject you with the drugs?
MikeThat's not wearing off yet, right yeah, hi-haw, hi-hia.
EldarOn record, all right, so second nature. So what we talked about is that a lot of times in our life right, and I think everybody can relate to this, especially Serge. We want to change something about ourselves. Mm-hmm. Right.
ToliyHe laughs at these 500 pounds right.
MikeYeah, like he's losing his breath.
EldarYeah, he can't breathe A lot of times we want to change something about ourselves meaning in life. Right, if we lose weight, we're going to read more, eat better.
SergiyGo out party more Go out party more.
EldarYes, thank you, sir Going to yacht.
EldarGoing to yacht more, right. Travel more and all this other fucking crap, right.
Transformation and Identity Shift
EldarAnd we associate ourselves with these characters or want to become these characters that we want to implement certain changes. So we'll go and sit down and read a book one book, right? No, suddenly, you know, we go out there and present ourselves like we're these book readers or whatever, or we're people, a person who reads the book you know we wanted to talk about how does one become and have qualities of second nature, responses into the world after we've solidified a character that we were looking to be?
EldarActually, right, a lot of times when we lose weight right, if we're looking to lose weight, right, we're not just looking to lose weight. I think we're also looking to lose identity, a specific identity about ourselves that no longer identifies with food and exercise and everything else in the way that we used to. Right. But the results usually come as the fastest results that we usually see is the losing of the weight, right, sure, we started dieting. Sure, we're implementing exercises and all the other right things in order to lose weight. Right, we see we get on the scale and we lost 20 pounds or 30 pounds or 40 pounds.
EldarA lot of times when we receive external compliments, right, they start looking like praise or they start looking at like accomplishment. They're like, oh yeah, like, look at me, I lost my weight, right, and all of a sudden, right, those results what the people are saying right To you in the locker room or in the gym, right, they come up to Mike and they say, hey, you look really good, man, you know like you lost weight. And he's like, oh, thank you, you know. And they proceed to say even more things like, wow, keep it up, man, like you're doing good, kind of thing.
EldarThey don't really know what they're saying, right, because at the end of the day, sure, he's losing weight, but behind the scenes there's a bigger goal in mind, right, that's not to lose weight, that's to lose a mentality. Right, that's the most important thing. And a lot of times I think people get stumbled here. Well, they get praises, they get compliments and they attach themselves to that, as to say, like I've accomplished something. Oh, yeah, yeah, I lost the weight, I look good to the external world, and if that's what you're looking for, is the praise from the external world, that that's what you value.
EldarYou're committing a premature crime against yourself, right? Because what we set out to do actually is to lose in the mentality, right? And how do you see the mentality? They're not complimenting and saying, hey, mike, your mentality is so good Like you no longer have a fat mentality or insecure mentality, that looks really good. Who does that? Nobody. The external world sees the external things. They're like hey look, this guy used to be 30 pounds heavier, now he's 30 pounds lighter. I clearly see a change For the compliment you based on that. They don't go deeper than that.
EldarHowever, it can be an issue for us, right? So what we're saying is that how do we make sure that we get to a point where this new identity that we're trying to develop, right, of being not fat or whatever it is that we're looking to accomplish, becomes second nature to us, that it is no longer need of praise, need of reassurance, right? It's just a natural response to everything, right? This is what we do, this is what we do. I don't need any praise. This is who I am. You know what I mean, actually, externally and internally. So those two things are actually synchronized. This is the question, right? When does that happen?
EldarWhen does that finally transition from the subconscious to the conscious and then to the subconscious again, and that's what I wanted to explain earlier. All right, is that first we're not conscious about how you know if we're unhappy, we're not conscious about that, what we're doing, like, for example, if we're overweight. We're not conscious as to why we're overweight, so we kind of just whatever.
TommyThen we become conscious about. Maybe the room you asked a little bit was 20 pounds, right, I think maybe that's funny. But yeah, go ahead. The question is how do you go?
Eldarfrom the first, number one, right, subconscious, which we don't really care about, something. Then we realize it's a problem, then we care about it, then we become, we're bringing to the conscious awareness. Right Now, mike is very conscious of what he eats, mike is very conscious of how he exercises and how he carries himself. Right To then taking this conscious experience right, or self-awareness, to now making it automated, where Mike is no longer is even thinking about what he's doing, but he's just living how his life, like breathing. You and me and Toli and Mike, we're not conscious about our breath. Right now. It is a natural phenomena that happens and we don't even know or think about it.
EldarEver pause to understand like, oh, look what we're doing, you know what I mean. It comes natural to us. How do we become or how do we create habits around our life? Right, that becomes second nature to us. When does that happen? When does that click, actually solidifies and it becomes something? When does, like a tree right, goes from green shoot that I was showing you to a brown shoot. This is what we're talking about From the subconscious to conscious and back to subconscious, because now it's automated response to us, like brushing our teeth. I see, I see.
MikeDoes it understood?
ToliyYeah, yeah.
EldarOkay.
MikeSo I guess we talked about this a little bit yesterday, but I guess yeah, that's like you're asking when is that shift happen, right, mm-hmm?
TommySo it would be like in this case with the weight thing and be what is it at 20 pounds, at 30 pounds, 40 pounds?
MikeOh, I don't think I don't think it's a matter of a number on a scale. It's a matter we're talking about your conscious shift where you no longer identify with that person that used to be, or you no longer identify with that behavior that you used to do and now you no longer. The praise doesn't come to you.
EldarYou don't hear the praise. If there is praise, because you are, it Okay. And when the praise does happen, it almost comes by surprise. Right, yeah, and anticipation.
ToliyYeah, well, I mean, I think to me at least, it sounds like it just depends on what you had set out to do to begin with. Okay, right, okay, like, if you set out to lose 50 pounds and you lost 50 pounds, and people are giving you praise and you're saying, um, yeah, like I accomplished something, well, I mean, you did Right. Like, if that's what you set out to do, yeah. But if you set out to um, to be a different person or to be a different types of person, even if you lost a 50 pounds, if you're not that type of person that you set out, then then, like, you wouldn't have those same kinds of feelings towards it. But, um, for things to become, I think what kinds of feelings?
TommyWell, like you wouldn't um if you went out for the identity change right.
ToliyIf you went for what.
TommyIf you went out and tried to become a different person, you said you know you wouldn't have those kinds of feelings when someone complimented oh, well, yeah, because you have an um push, I guess, like what you uh set out to accomplish, right, if you?
Tommyum, okay, so we. So when you, when you set, when you set these goals, there there's like a more uh, there's a deeper, is there's a deeper way? Like you, would you be changing yourself? If you wanted to lose this weight and you went on this journey? Would you be changing something more essential about yourself, like you said, the mindset? This is what we're talking about, right.
ToliyBut it. But it can be done in different ways. You could be someone that's more superficial, for example, and say like I'm going to go and lose 50 pounds, and you can lose 50 pounds, kind of not know what's going on, and then maybe then begin a journey of becoming a different person from there, potentially like without knowing that, like this is what like actually happened.
EldarI don't think the temp here is to understand this in such a way where it's a random occurrence. We're trying to understand that in such a way that it's targeted.
ToliyWell, for it to be targeted, you would have to have a targeted desire or goal to begin with yeah, and that's what we're talking about. Yeah, and if you said that my goal is just to lose 50 pounds, then the tip, that's where it ends.
ToliyThat's where it starts and ends. And when you get um like like nice, praise for it and stuff like that, then I mean it's completely fine, I mean it is what it is. But if you set out that um, I don't know what would be something like um, I want to, let's just say they have more energy and be able to do like a lot more things, like, for example this is a good example.
EldarYes, that's good. It's good to bring that up.
ToliyIf you lost the weight and you don't have more energy and you're not doing more things, what?
Eldarare we talking?
Toliyabout. Then what are we talking about?
EldarMike, when you were getting the praises, how did it make you feel?
MikeWell, I generally don't like the praises. You don't like them, I don't like, uh, I don't like them and I usually like make a joke about it. Okay, you know, yeah, like I try not to make it too seriously. Okay, cause I don't want to also inflate my own ego. Okay, you know, probably I guess I'm thinking about it now but I don't like the compliments. I don't, cause it's like part of it is people don't know what I'm going through and why I'm doing what I'm doing. Okay, they don't know.
Navigating Praise and Personal Growth
MikeMike
That's the full picture so for me to like say oh, thank you. It's like it's saying thank you for like something I'm not really doing, so okay, so, so okay.
EldarCool. I and I I 100% agree with you.
ToliyBut what are they? What are you not?
Mikereally doing. Hold on one second. Uh, I'm not okay, okay, good.
EldarNow I was going to say that like then. Then what's stopping you from having a deeper conversation is to say I'm like, hey, like, hey, like, hold your praises here, hold your horses here, because I'm actually going after something else, starting that conversation.
ToliyNo, but what's what's wrong with them giving? Giving like a, praise it for it, Like they're, they're just calling it a Zeriz, though, right.
EldarUh, not always the thing is. Again, um sure they are calling it for what it is. Hey, like you lost weight right. Yeah, yeah, like, like the thing is. Okay.
ToliyBut, that's not what I set out to do no, no, I know, but they're, they're like they're. They're. They're remembering Mike one way, seeing him another way, and they're making a judgment call as to, like, what their impression is of what they see and what they're observing. And they're just making a well, I'm not sure if that's a problem, though. Like that's, that's completely fine. Like if if, for example, the problem I guess happens at house, it's how it's taken.
ToliyWell, yeah, but how it's taken, like I don't think he needs to say hold your horses or do any of that, because like they're not like misinterpreting anything, like they're interpreting it in the way that they're choosing to see it and like interpret it yeah.
TommyBut maybe the way that they choose to see it, um is like as a part of a social trend and you're sort of part of this thing.
EldarThis is very good point, tom, that I was going to go there too.
ToliyYeah, but it's, yeah, that it's again like, hey, like you need.
EldarLike, when I was coming to the gym this whole time and that even lose 20 or 30 pounds, right? Uh, you didn't say anything to me.
TommyThe times when, maybe, I smiled Like good job for being here at the gym.
EldarYeah, yeah, a good point, right, like why are you telling me this now?
ToliyWell, because they see a change and they think it's a notable change.
EldarWhy is it that we praise change? But also, people lose weight if they get in sick too right, that's right, and like if you go on through a cancer or something, people lose weight.
MikeSo then yes, so then you should be like, oh, why are we making assumption?
EldarYeah, like, why are we making assumption off of that? Like, oh, you lost weight, good job.
ToliyWell, I mean, if they're saying that they believe that he physically looks better, then like that's their like, that that's what they see and that's what they're complimenting.
TommyIdeally, everything that should be positive on paper should be taken positive.
ToliyThey're not like saying that, like, like oh, you know what the question then has to be around.
EldarShould we be giving praise in the first place?
ToliyWell like.
EldarI think that's the two different things. Okay, okay, okay, I'm going to expand it. Should we be giving praise without knowing the details? Right, because if I knew details? Right, like my good shit on losing weight, right To me, like giving them this, it's like it's shooting him in the foot, like this is not what we're going for. We knew that this is going to be the end result, just like it's for you as well. But we're working on something much deeper, right, we're working on something that's much more meaningful for you and for him. Right For me to give you praise about hey, good job on losing 10 pounds Like that's not what we're after. It's to be wrong but to be okay with getting the praise from the people that are not understanding the actual details. Then it's like to be vague or to be vain.
ToliyWell, I think it's just like people are going to see their observations. They're going to make their assumptions of what's going on. I think it's up to the individual to process it properly. Well, yeah, to process it properly, to understand what's going on.
EldarOkay, like this person sees that, like the new name is 50 pounds here, and now they're seeing me 50 pounds, but then again we're again making the burden on the person who's interpreting it, which is, I agree with, sure, because they're the conscious individuals. But should we then the general question should we go around giving people praises without actually knowing what's going on? I think, I think I have a bigger question. I'm saying that like look, I don't know history.
TommyKind of ugly. You know this is a mess what we're talking about here.
EldarLook, I'm not going to give them a praise, Say hey, good job, Michael. I'm losing weight because I know what we're trying to lose. We're trying to lose pride, we're trying to lose ego. Oh, I see. Yeah, I guess this is what I'm going for. Yeah, this is what we're going for the weight is the easy part, bro.
TommyAnd who's this person here who's like low energy and trying to tell you, you know, with the losing of the weight is the easy part. The weight of the weight is that you did good, get on a treadmill, eat less.
EldarThat's very easy Losing of the ego and pride, arrogance and all the other things that we're talking about that's holding us away from being happy, is the actual weight.
ToliyYeah, but it's also like, if you're talking about losing pride, arrogance or like that, Then it becomes a test.
EldarOkay, fine, I like it. What it's a test? Then it's a test.
MikeIt's a test which I agree with For that person. Yeah.
ToliyWell, yeah, but what I'm saying is that like that person is getting, like that person is like at a gym, right, and they're being complimented that.
EldarOh, the setting works and they're setting work working out.
ToliyYeah, you just don't see what losing weight has to do with, for example, losing pride or arrogance or ego.
TommyThe thing is I went to numbers because it really depends For me. I can go to the gym for I don't know 15 days and really start to shred weight fast. So 5, 10 pounds is like a fun, the light, easy, quick change for me. That the point is that let's say I'm on this journey and I lose 5, 10 pounds, but it's not what I'm going for, because what I'm going for is, let's say, weight gain or weight loss. That's much higher than that. That's much more challenging than that. I'm in a kind of vulnerable spot. So it depends on, it really depends on where you are in your journey, I think. So, yeah, you could be in the very beginning and be very vulnerable to these kinds of I don't know, to somebody coming to you with sort of unusual and low energy praise.
EldarThat really makes you feel like-. Let's get back to our original question. How do these things become second nature, right when we used to think about them and it's in the forefront of our awareness?
ToliyBut they only become-. The way I'm thinking about it is I have a problem figuring out how to do something that I'm not sure if these are controllable things, oh there you go, that kind of way.
EldarI think it's a very good question.
ToliyIf you about it, you about it, that's it.
EldarOkay, go go.
ToliyThere's no like this is a good-. If that's who you are, that is who you are Right. And there's not yeah, but how do you get to?
Mikethat point, that that's who you are. Yeah, because a lot of people get there, but they don't stay there. Well, no.
ToliyOr they're not there. They're not that person, then no.
MikeYeah, but it feels exactly like. It Feels exactly like what People feel, like there are where the places they want to be or where they were set out to be.
ToliyWell, they can feel that way, but if they're not, they're not. That's what I'm saying. Is that, like for it to become second nature, you actually have to become what you set?
Mikeout to be. And how do you become that? How do you become that it's second nature, by doing it Well.
Toliyso there's no way to know how to become second nature. You just become the thing that you set out to be, and by default you get it to be second nature. So you're saying it's magic. No, so second nature is the effect of what you become.
MikeOkay, and how do you become that?
ToliyWell, you take the. I mean, it depends on like you take the steps necessary to do what you set out to do.
MikeOkay, so what? So how does that look?
TommyI see you wouldn't be affected by those kind of stuff If you were, if it was second nature to you to be about yourself and be unaffected by, you know, drama creators or something or anything like that. You know if you can continue your journey. The way I look at this is the choice.
MikeYou have to first. It's like a conscious effort, like, hey, I want to lose weight, right, or I want to become healthy, or I want to do whatever. You have to initially have to make the conscious effort to do things. You have to, like you know, pay attention, because obviously you were living unconsciously right that that the place you're currently in. So initially have to be very conscious, right, and then how do you become unconscious about it and it becomes second nature, see I?
Toliysee, I'm not sure if that like like exists in that kind of way? Okay, okay, so look, I think something becoming second nature is a very conscious state that like is realized, like you realized, into that kind of state.
MikeSo I'm asking how do you realize into that state?
ToliyWell, you actually become what you set out to be.
EldarHow did you become from being very skinny totally and be able to run suicides at the gym and then into being overweight and not being able to do the same thing?
ToliyUm, how, how did that happen yeah?
EldarUm, or did it ever happen?
ToliyWell, what? What I mean, I guess, did it happen or not? Yeah it did happen.
EldarRight, you know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah, you know.
ToliyI'm very specific about the identity that you used to be, which you always talk about, right To the identity that we have now right, yeah, well, there, there, there's a lot of things that happen Like, uh, I guess my priorities on different things change Priorities, my eating habits change, your eating habits change. My activity levels change, my rest levels change Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, a lot of those factors contributed towards that. Okay, um, maybe at some point, um, um, I had a stretch where, um, um, I didn't think like anything like physical was like important. I thought it was, you know, purely like mental. That was important, right, um, so there was a lot of variables.
EldarThere's a lot of variables. Yeah, okay. Yeah, but but but so. So yeah, would you say that you were conscious or not really conscious about all those variables playing out the way they're playing out, in order for you to finally get the result that you're in now?
ToliyUm, probably a combination of both.
EldarReally, yeah, if you were to weight it on a percentage scale, how many of them were subconscious versus the other ones that were conscious? Mm-hmm.
Exploring Conscious vs Subconscious Habits
EldarWas this a subconscious journey, or I mean I?
Toliyknew that I was like, my eating habits were poor and that my activity levels were low and then my stress levels were.
EldarYou were doing it consciously.
MikeUh oh, in the moment, like when you're eating, overeating or over anything exercising, in the moment you don't feel it afterwards when you have the pain, sure.
EldarBut was it a conscious effort to say you know what I'm going to eat unhealthy now and overeat?
ToliyOh no, no, I mean, that was that, that wasn't. But. But like what? What was transpiring like made conscious sense to me.
EldarBut that's like after the fact, after, after you were reflecting on it.
MikeBecause you had the pain to tell you like, uh, hey, like, what did you just do to me?
ToliyYeah, I mean I don't know. I mean like I definitely did not say, like hey, this one I'm gonna set out to do, and then when, and did it yeah see, that's the thing, right Like now.
EldarPicture about the stuff that you're doing now.
ToliyYeah.
EldarRight, like the stuff that we're trying to do now. Right, yeah, let's just say exercise and stretching and eating right, being mindful, stuff, like that. This is a conscious effort or a subconscious effort.
ToliyIt's a conscious effort.
EldarIt's a conscious effort. Okay, now, where are we trying to go with this conscious effort? So back to a subconscious effort or more conscious effort.
ToliyI guess, in the way that you're speaking about it now, a subconscious effort.
EldarYeah, yeah, I think ultimately right. What we're trying to do is install in all of us habits that are good habits for us, right. They're gonna serve us. That's not gonna not serve us, right. And we want it to be on a subconscious level, absolutely why? Because we want it to be what Automatic.
TommyMaybe less arrogant.
MikeOh, wait, wait, oh get there. Oh Thompson.
EldarYou know what I'm saying. What are you trying to do? You're trying to be always conscious about every decision you make and always paranoid the way you are right now.
EldarNo no, no, no. You just live your life right and eating to be just a byproduct of life, like breathing. Yeah, oh, I ate. Good, I have other things to take care of. Right? Your passion, whatever it is your passions are Because those things right now are not serving you properly. They make you feel a certain type of way and you don't actualize yourself because of it. But you want it to make it subconscious to a point where it's like second nature, and that's what we're trying to talk about. But how does one go? Yeah, so that.
EldarThing right, because I just made an example of you where you said hey, I used to be a second nature kid who just ran around like a madman, loved everything that he did, played a lot of basketball like running suicides was a joke. I was beating everybody in the gym. I was extremely skinny. I remember that kid right, I've seen that the product of that right, he was subconscious right. He was just doing it because he just was in the zone, whatever the zone, that was right. And then something has turned. He said priorities, goals, fears, stress, life time all these things play the factor in then becoming something else, making choices the way he did. And then that became subconscious right. So him eating burgers? Right, or eating junk food after work or whatever, was that an effortless? It was like running suicides, it was effortless.
TommyThat's pretty good right now, Dude, I have to admit also when I hear the McDonald's word around here, I want to go with you guys because, you guys are my friends and getting excited about this. You could put that McDonald's or any fast food in place and I want in and I kind of know I won't say I've never gone to treat myself to fast food but when I do it's exciting. There's an excitement in it for me. There is, there is.
EldarYeah, there has to be time, because you also do this thing where you punish yourself and you have guilt trips and all this other stuff. So doing something like fast food is exciting.
TommyDon't try to explain it. It's probably an experiment. That's how it works For me specifically For you.
EldarThis is specifically how this works, not just for you, because but it's not a recent habit.
TommyNo, it's not a recent habit, but I will say at the gym, it is more subconscious for me now to continue going Subconscious.
EldarSee how good he is at this, tom, then help us out.
MikeHe's just subconscious, less than a month?
EldarNo, I'm not trying to be tricky. What do you mean, Tom? Yeah, let's hear it. Let's hear it, Tom. Yeah, you have to help us out to get.
MikeHow do you get to? I do have a little story. Two weeks to enlightenment, tom, I do have a little story.
TommyI realized something yesterday. I was at the gym yesterday and I was swimming and as a kid I had to swim because I had this hip problem and I couldn't do regular sports. Like first few years in school, I sat in the gym on the side and I watched. I couldn't do sports. So, like somewhere, I don't know, at some point in time maybe I was 10 or 11, my mom offered me to swim because she was that's what was recommended by the podiatrist that I was seeing and I said, okay, this is a sport that I could do, but that sport really wasn't always fun for me. I was doing that for like twice a week. And yesterday, when I was swimming, I remembered something. I remembered that there were just some days that I get into the water and the water is just moving me around and I'm like feeling sick and I'm swimming these laps and I'm like why the fuck am I doing this?
EldarYou attributed that to eating a foul. By the way, feeling sick.
TommyHold on, hold on. Let me finish here. What I'm trying to say is that that kind of feeling lets me know that something is off. It's not that I'm sick.
EldarYeah, and you attributed to eating a foul with me.
TommyYeah, hold on, hold on. We went to the gym after a foul, and that's what you're saying.
EldarAnd that's what you're saying, and you told me after we were in this we're after sauna and the next day you're like this is how I felt when I was swimming and you attributed to a foul. Oh yes, yes, I agree with that. That's why you kept asking me like, how do I feel after a foul?
TommyIt's very possible, and not only that, but when.
EldarI was eating the food I also. Now you're attributing to something else.
TommyI was also anxious, because Mike said hold on T don't take it so far.
EldarGo easy on me.
TommyGo easy my brother.
MikeThis is true. Yeah, you're going, you guys are from the same region Austin.
EldarWhen we ate that food.
TommyI was also thinking about what Mike said when we ate the food. I was also thinking about why Mike didn't want to go, because last time he went there he got sick and he was attributing it. He was attributing his night before going out. Wow yo.
MikeActually I could have went there, I just didn't want to go that day. I have no problem going there, but you understand what just happened. He interpreted exactly what I said and that made him sick. That's right.
EldarThat's a good example for Toly that you wanted to give him an example.
ToliySo, Mike, so you never got sick from this place.
MikeI got sick Boy wait wait. Me and Mike ate the same stuff. I had a screwdriver on. We got a fucking bug somewhere, bro.
TommyI got a bug somewhere.
EldarIt is possible that you got it from there, but, like bugs take.
Mikeaccording to doctor friend of ours, bugs take at least 24 hours to come out.
SergiySo you can't get sick the same night. How the hell do you get sick of it? I see Acid right.
EldarYeah, acid that we have inside of us. How?
Sergiydoes it arrive? They must have some kind of a.
EldarYeah, here's a quick thing. What if we are always overeating? That's why it does that. If we didn't overeat, then there's enough acid to process the whole thing.
SergiyMaybe you just have so much food that it can't get through it.
EldarIt can't get through it. It's like, you know, like if you put a big piece of meatball inside of microwave right in the middle is going to be called yeah, hi, yeah.
SergiyI'm hungry, toly, you hungry, no.
ToliyThere actually is a meal of mine that he can have.
EldarYeah, that's right. Yeah, that's nice of you, yeah it's so sweet.
ToliyNo, I'm serious, it's in the fridge. It's in the fridge, enjoy it yeah in the fridge it's pasta. Poke holes through it and put in the microwave for two minutes. Yeah it's good. It's good. There's pasta with meat on it. It's very good. Don't give it to each other.
EldarDon't give it to each other. It's good, trust me, he's going to eat the whole thing. He's going to love it.
MikeYeah, he used to eat worse.
ToliyJust poke holes in the plastic. He used to eat worms, bro, yeah, with a fork, or he?
Eldarused to eat worms, he looked at me like, and when he used to go fawking.
MikeHe used to eat the worms.
EldarHe said I didn't catch any fish, I might as well eat these worms. All right, look, second nature. We see the examples of it that it's constantly happening to us in a good way, in a bad way, whatever it is. But the form was a little bit in the gray area. How do we find it?
MikeI was asking totally, but I think there is some kind of roadmap that you can follow to get to the place. There's prerequisites that you need to line up with in order to get to that.
EldarI guess the ultimate question that we're asking is that how does a conscious action become a subconscious habit? Yeah Right, that's it. That's all we're asking for, because then, if we are filled with, if we consciously figure it out and logically mapped out what's good for us, these actions right here, how do we take these actions and then make them subconsciously good habits?
ToliyYeah, I think it's like your conscious effort when it gets to the point of identity change.
MikeRight, but how do you get to the point what you're saying when it gets to the point of identity change?
ToliyLike when you've solidified that conscious action. But when do you solidify? How do you solidify? So solidification, I think, works differently, probably for all people. I'd probably say that the more of an intelligent individual you are, probably the easier that that solidification takes and the less it probably takes, much longer, depending on your, your ego, your what's the word?
TommyI agree with you. You know, like for, for example, eldar, for him, abs come easy. For me to set abs as a goal would be. You know, it wouldn't be very smart for me because I don't care, I just I personally.
ToliyWhat A health. Not like you, that should be easy.
TommyNo, that that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm actually comfortable with my health. I'm comfortable with doing things. Doing things, you know, sort of rationally, moderately. And we're avoiding avoiding the unhealthy behaviors that plagued my life earlier.
MikeI think Tom is saying a lot. It's not about me, I'm not trying to hijack. He's also saying absolutely nothing.
TommyI'm not trying to hijack this, because he doesn't know what he's saying.
MikeWhat I'm saying is he's saying good stuff, but he doesn't know what he's saying. I know what I'm saying. He can't give him credit for it.
TommyWhat I'm saying here is I wash like abs for me, like like being low, low fat or whatever, and with abs showing and everything. It would not. It would not contribute to my, it would actually it would. It would get in the way of, it would take away from your humility. No, it would take away from the goals that yes, why does the convincing happen? That's what I'm asking. Let me finish what I'm saying, what I'm trying to
Transformation and Identity Solidification
Tommysay here, is that. So Toli's just said that you, if there would be what did?
Eldaryou. When do we become it? When do we reincarnate?
MikeThat's what I'm saying. When do we kill our egos? That's what I'm asking.
ToliyYeah, I think when, like when, when you have a conscious effort that is solidified for you as an individual, then I think it just becomes so what does look? What did it look like to be?
Mikesolidified.
ToliyThere's no definition.
MikeOkay. What does that look like? Like you? Agreed with me yesterday.
EldarYou agreed with me yesterday and said hey, Eldar, I agree. These small actions, these small steps is what I need. To focus on the goals that I've made right now, and nothing else. Like you said that's it. What is that? What is that transition between not knowing and being doubtful to now saying that's it and then only focusing and performing off that? And how do you stay consistent with that?
ToliyWell, well, well, no, right now it's like a, like a level of focus match with like, understanding, awareness, right, oh, awareness. But then when you do it enough, I think it becomes who you are, which I think is different for all people, which is why I don't think that like it can just be like, like, like. I don't know what numerical steps or directions you can give somebody to do that, because it's going to be different for all, for all people. I think the person that is like, like, for example, if you're like, if we throw it on, like a scale right, Like if your goal is like in light, like, like, if a perfect person, for example, is like a hundred points and you're at a and you're at like a level of like 0.5 or one or two or three, like some some are in there I think the solidification process is going to be much, much longer for that individual.
ToliyEven individuals like at, let's just say, 80 points out of 100, they're like an elite level person who, like, knows themselves, has like a very like, like a, like a very good understanding, for example, of truth and like all that kind of stuff the solidification process for that person, I think, will be much faster.
ToliyI'm not sure, I don't know, but I don't think that, like I don't think it's an answerable question of like what do you do to get there? Because, like there's no one to like there, there's no list of physical steps that you can tell somebody to do that.
EldarBut there, but nonetheless, you agree that there is a transformational point.
ToliyThere is a transformational point, but I think it's different for everybody and it's a solidification of your identity.
EldarSome people's identities will take longer to solidify and some, but nonetheless there's reasons for it right. Like there's certain things reasons why one will solidify that faster than the other. Right, they could be more angry or more egotistical.
ToliyWell, that that's a case. That's what I was just saying.
MikeIt is the case, but if a person is going to follow this certain steps, and they're going to follow it the way it's supposed to be followed, is there a guideline? No, there is no guide. No, so you don't think there's any prerequisites or anything like that in order to achieve this transformation.
EldarIt just kind of happens by chance.
ToliyNo, it's not by chance. It's not by chance.
EldarIt's just no, we don't have the ability to maybe map out all the variables.
ToliyFor example, if, like, there's a difference between, for example, like someone who's like a master, who's like sharpening his skills right, and there's an identity change for example that might happen there, where someone becomes better at something that they're already good at, right, and then there's a difference between somebody who's a beginner who's trying to do that like that change. Yeah, I think.
MikeI think we, like the way I'm hearing it is like just because a person is a master in something does not make him a master in everything. I'm not sure that will apply that just because he's good like, for example I use Alder's example. It came to mind this thing, that that we were talking about, about the basketball stuff right, for a very long time, right, he was exercising playing ball in the way that was improper and he knew about it, right, and he would still do it, like the drinking and Friday then going to play ball being tired, and that that went on for quite a while. And I mean I will consider Alder a master and a lot of different things, but this thing he had not mastered for a while. So, like the way I'm hearing what you're saying is like you're saying this guy is a level 80 person, but level 80 may be in the things that he's good at, right, but then there's, we all have things that we're good at that, we're really good at no, that's not what I'm talking about.
ToliyThe example would then be would would be when Alder identified this and how fast he was able to make the change and solidify that thing for himself. That would be the example.
MikeSo then he would do it faster than most people you're saying.
ToliyI tend to think that I would say that if Alder like not real realizes, but like if he gets to a point where something is highlighted and he understands it and it's and it's known as truth, I would say that he would have a a much easier time having that thing become second nature with his level of like focus than people who are not so smart or not not, not not so good at like, I guess living life.
MikeSo what's the requirement for the person to reach that level of realization that you're saying? That Alder realized? Okay, what do you mean by level of requirement for reaching Like is there something that that that is required in order to be able to realize as fast for some people than others. Well, yes, yeah.
ToliyLike there's a lot of things like how, how much ego do you have, right? Your relationship, for example, with like hearing the truth, your relationship with like being able to have a conversation with somebody, like your understanding of how things work, like there. There there's to me like all of those things factor in into. Is this process going to be very long and grueling for you because there's so many things that you need to like uncover and like and and like understand and like and change about yourself, right, and that person probably has a hard time understanding and dealing and and and and like living out and and like, like experiencing those those things. But someone like Eldar, who I think you can have a conversation with him about something truthful I think he could take criticism in very good ways or like he could get to a point where he could have a conversation and like understand some something. I think he will implement and do those things at a much faster rate. Yeah, then then most people would.
TommyYeah, yeah, I think that was a good observation.
MikeGod damn it, then you're wrong completely. He says that.
ToliyThat's crap. Yeah, like that, so like that. That's what I'm saying. Is that like I don't think that there is like a guide in something becoming so like subconscious, on just like a general level?
MikeWell, I think the things you mentioned is, in a way, it's an, it is a guide. Well, it's like to become humble, right?
ToliyYeah, but you can't just say somebody like hey here's like.
ToliyHere's a 10 like task checklist. Once you accomplish the last task, you're humble, right?
Journey to Personal Transformation
ToliyOf course, yeah, there's going to be a gap between the person who understands and the person who doesn't understand, and there's particular things that cannot be conveyed to the person who doesn't understand, because and like this often happens, for example, like if two people are on the same page on something and they understood something and they see somebody else who doesn't get it right, I think that they understand where that person is at and like what their capabilities are of understanding something or not, because I think they themselves have realized, maybe like or like understood their, their way of getting like past that, or like how they leveled up from that maybe, or how they like learn something on that, and they know that at that time, there's something that you could say to that person. Right, they can understand that. Sure, while someone else might be like yo, this person's like a wild goat, like what the fuck are they doing? Right, like, oh, just tell them to stop. Or like yo, just like, throw them out of here.
ToliyRight, versus somebody maybe more wise would be on the side of like understanding and like, yeah, compassion and stuff like that, because they know where that person's at, they can maybe more accept things like this person's ignorant, this person doesn't understand where the person that has no idea what's going on. They're going to be like yo kill, kill this person. He's just like a rot to society, right, that kind of thing, you know. Like. That's why I look at it. So it's very hard to say like, to me at least, the steps of like getting something to be second nature, because a lot of the things that are going to be said are going to be like general concepts of things but they're going to be very dependent on, like, the individual person right, but nonetheless right, no matter how many steps or how many months, years, whatever time it takes.
MikeYou have to, as the requirement that you have, to become humble.
EldarOkay, yeah, humble, so it sounds like we need to break something?
ToliyYeah being well, you have to break. So like a perception? Well, no, not even a perception, okay. So it's like the way I view it. Is that like there's no numerical measure right now to our egos, for example? Right, but our egos are on different levels, right, I would say? Is that factual?
ToliyYes, but there's no like chart saying hey, like elders is only 10 out of 100, like minus 90 out of 100, right, or like something like that, right? So you as the person, sometimes it's hard for you to know where you're at, right, and ego, to me, is one of those things like so it's like, it's like the composition of a person is like they're composed of. Like their ego, their humility, right, their like relationship with the truth, for example, right, maybe their comprehension skills, right, what is that? Four things like maybe there's more that are like in that realm of like things, right? So, depending on where you're at when it comes to all that will depend on how those things play out. And if you have a high ego, you have low comprehension abilities.
EldarYou have totally with everything. You're fucking mumbling right now. You're answering the question. Sorry, I was looking at your Rolex. You're answering the fucking question. You just answered the question and that's, I think, very helpful to somebody who's looking, for example, to see what the thresholds are. Right, serge, what we're talking about is this when we were driving to the liquor store to get the shit, you're like Eldar, all this fucking shit that I used to stress about, I'm fucking done. I'm changing. I'm going to respond differently to the shit. I had enough of this. I'm a different person. Problems happen. I don't react to it anymore. I'm done. We're trying to figure out how did you come about and, finally, what? What's the straw that broke the camel's back that you're now a different person. You used to stress about it. You used to not sleep about it, right? You finally did it. You finally broke through and, like, you know what? Fuck this shit. It's not even that serious. How did you solidify a new mindset?
SergiyCan you?
Eldarbring that microphone closer. It was weird.
SergiyIt was weird. I was stressing about something really badly. Me and Kai were stressing about something that happened in the business and my son comes up to me and he says Daddy, I love you. And they all walk out of the house. I go into what do you call it? My pantry and I just start bawling out Like crying. I'm like I cannot be like this from my kids. It was bad. Yeah, I cannot show them the stress I'm having because, instead of being calm and fatherly, I'm like this and I'm like short with him and I sit down and I'm like, I'm like, I'm not a religious person, but if there's somebody out there who could help me, yeah, Help me out.
EldarNow we know why you came here for the second time, and at that moment no, and at that moment tell their attacks at you Clear as day.
SergiyCalm, no stress, nothing really bothers, even now when, like still, things happen in business all the time my stress levels compared to what they used to be like 5% out of 100.
EldarThat's why it was very interesting, because you told me that in the car and I was like, wow, you've changed right, but there was a catalyst. You had a catalyst.
SergiyYeah, yeah, I was like I don't know what to do. I never asked for help for anybody, but if anybody there, just give me the help. I don't know if my mind cleared, but since then everything is calm in my mind. I'm just calm Like nothing bothers me, like he used to be. I'm not like this anymore. I'm not jittery or anything. I don't know what it was.
EldarThat's the thing again. See, it's like a mysterious thing.
SergiyIt's a very mysterious thing. But I don't even know what it was. But it's not, it was also a desperation. At that moment, I was like I cannot be like that anymore around my kids. I cannot. You felt really bad inside.
MikeBut maybe you also had some moments leading up to where you kind of experienced this On small levels, where you were kind of like fed up, exhausted, you were asking for help, but that was like when it really blew up and you said, yo, that's it. Now I finally give up, enough is enough.
SergiyI always figured it out. There's no point of stressing about it, I'm not dead, it's just going to figure it out, like worrying about something you can't control. There's nothing you can do about it, just deal with it, but finally you got the solidification of that knowledge. Yeah, I knew about it before, but I never.
EldarSo we're trying to figure out what makes that thing like that's it Bind it and now you're different Actually.
SergiyI think it has to be some kind of chemical thing in your brain, like when you basically tell it. Basically it's like a self-meditation, your program itself. I went through that before. Things were happening bad and I was stressing out all the time Relationship Stress and I was stressing out. I was stressed out, not sleeping days and nights and one time I closed myself in the room for like four hours straight, turned off all the lights, because I was at the point where I was like I don't know what to do with myself anymore. I am at the loss. I closed myself in the room, turned meditation music on and I was meditating for four hours. I told myself I went through everything in my life. I went through everything that was bothering me and I said just come down, things will change, things will get better. And after that also, I had like an epiphany. Everything was like fine for me. It was obviously longer process than this.
EldarThis was very fast, it lasted maybe like 30 minutes, but maybe you thought so it was fast, but it was really fast.
SergiyIt could have taken years. I felt very calm like that Because when corona happened, everybody started going crazy. Everybody was like yo is the end of the world. I was like I love it, I come down right away. For that time, when the corona was around, I was calm as it could be.
EldarA lot of people talk about this type of experience, with it completely switched and changed the careers and became better people.
SergiyI guess you get tired of the way.
EldarDivorced if they needed to divorce right.
SergiyTired of the way you are. You can see it's not changing, like a switch in your brain. I think it's a self-preservation thing, maybe.
EldarThat's interesting.
SergiyYou had to go crazy, Lose yourself kill yourself or whatever. Or you protect yourself and your brain protects itself by switching some kind of chemical in the brain.
EldarBut then you almost talking about determinism, where everything is already determined. Our fate, our destiny is determined. It's written and as much as you try to fuck yourself up right now, you won't be able to do it to a point where you feel it.
SergiyYeah, like they say, what's supposed to happen is going to happen no matter what you do, so just let it go with it, let it be, don't fight it. I've noticed many times in my life I fought it and at the end it still came out fucked up, no matter what I did. If it was determined already it's going to happen, don't fight it.
EldarAlright, so what would you suggest to a person who's actually looking to make an actual change about themselves, about their life, about their character? What should they do? I think people should take time to reflect. We're so stuck.
SergiyYeah because, we're so stuck I mean at least me, I'm so stuck. Everything is like this On everyday life no stop, I don't have time to sit down and think.
EldarSo what happens during the reflection period that actually you're suggesting?
SergiyI think you talk to yourself and you figure out what the problem is and your brain has the way to protect
Understanding Chemical Changes in the Brain
Sergiyitself. To change the chemical structure in the brain, to maybe make Chemical structure in the brain, yes, make you feel different than what you were.
MikeShe's not buying it, yeah.
SergiyWhy your brain produces so many endorphins. You could produce anything you want in your brain. You could feel good, bad. That's all chemical based.
EldarYeah.
SergiyI think that's.
ToliyAre you buying it or not? The idea that what? I'm not sure what chemicals are in the brain for it. Yeah, for example, when you make changes, I'm guessing there is stuff that's going on. Yeah, I definitely don't buy that it's magical, that it's a one moment thing. I definitely think that it's more of a process.
SergiyIt's not a magic.
ToliyYou could control. A lot of things happen up until that point of like.
SergiyYeah, but bad things could be bad things that happen until that point there are people who are happy and then the solution to become not happy, because chemical imbalance is also a very important thing. Maybe I finally became chemically balanced in my brain, which I didn't have before, like when I was always, you know.
EldarBut are you willing to just have that as an explanation to your life and your changes? Well, I think it has a lot to do with it, Like if some the state of your mind yeah, but then it's almost like You're always shooting for a lot of tickets to win, Like I really didn't know what was going on with me, Kind of like well, I hope one day my brain will figure it out. That's like a.
SergiyIt's not empowering, no, but when you reflect, you tell your mind to change itself.
EldarI think reflections probably has a big effect on this kind of stuff. Yeah, I just don't think it's a by mere chance that your brain one day decided you know, what?
Toliylet's make the chemicals correct. Yeah, I feel like If there's something you want to change about yourself, you could set out to do that, but then there's work that you need to do to.
EldarThe interesting part about Serge's question or example, is that he was kind of like, maybe going towards this change for so long and he wasn't conscious about it this whole time that when it finally happened, he almost attributing it to a mere chance. Because he wasn't conscious about that. This is where he was headed, you know. Because he wasn't conscious about doing it, he didn't want to really like say you know what? This is my goal. I always thought it. See, he always thought it, so it wasn't conscious effort.
ToliySo when he finally maybe gave in for that tired, maybe when he asked for help, that was his way of giving up on fighting, and then he started to pay attention, going forward.
EldarOkay, so we have to maybe zoom in a little bit more on that little moment of giving up finally and seeing it differently.
ToliyWell, I think again, yeah, that's the aligning of those things Like to me, those are the major things, like the ego, the ability to connect with truth. What were the other things? Ego, ability to connect with truth, pride, yeah, yeah, pride, maybe, humility, and I think that was it right. Um, yeah, I think that might be, or maybe I'm missing something. Yeah, it was that fourth one.
ToliyYeah, those things need to align in a particular way to almost like grant you passage into what does that look like, and why can't we just summon it right? Yeah, but see you're asking what that looks like. There's no just like. All one fit all kind of like.
SergiyI agree with you. I think you have to get there. I think you have to get there.
EldarBecause everyone's different. What you're saying is that you need to earn it.
SergiyYeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta get there. Yeah, what does that look like?
EldarSurge. You obviously were very subconscious in the way you were going about these things and then one day it broke. You're like what the fuck? And you had to see it in your kid's eyes, right? Is this a point in the eyes that he's crying? You're crying, right. You're like yo, what am I doing? What's important? Hanging out with your kid or these fucking problems that you're talking?
Tommyabout. I think the tough thing is with at least the way I understand it and from what I've heard from other parents, you have no idea what happens when you have a child and like this thing this child is, like, it represents something within you that you can't explain. It's a love that's so strong that you never knew before. Is that right, like when you had your kid? Yeah, you're lucky.
SergiyI didn't love my kid right away.
TommyThank you for being honest.
SergiyI told you Kai has the same thing. Like some people say, they cry in the hospital. And for months I didn't like, I don't know what to do with myself, like, what is this? You know, creature.
TommyThat's what I'm talking about. Those processes, I think, are a little bit like, maybe less clear to us if we don't know really what it's like.
EldarWell, tom, he's given a very specific example that actually counteracts your example.
SergiyIt's so new to me and I'm like I don't know, I had no feelings right. I knew my son but maybe had to do with my stress levels because you know stressful things having a new child.
EldarYou weren't able to embrace it, maybe slowly, yeah.
SergiyAnd then, as he developed mentally and he could smile and more and more talk and talk. Now, yes, I love him so much that I can't live without him. And then when I found out my wife is pregnant with another kid, I was like how am I going to separate this love, like spread it between two kids? I couldn't understand it. I was like I love my son so much I do not want another child, but now I have two, I love both of them the same way, no different Right.
EldarAnd people told me that my friend has six kids and he's like I have that with the dogs and I had the same experience, but with dogs only.
SergiyBut I couldn't believe it. I was like I was like, do you want another kid? I said I do not want another kid, I only want one, because I love him so much I want to give him all the attention. And when I had two, like in the epiphany happened, it was like okay, it's like natural, your brain just goes okay, separates it Separates it. I love both of them now.
EldarSick I mean I can't track it back either, because, as much as I love Archie, when Penny came about I didn't like her because of certain things, obviously, and then she grew on me and then when that switch happened, like you said, it's like, oh shit, my brain separated and now I love Penny 100% and I love Archie 100%, and it's a crazy phenomenon. It is a phenomenon. I never thought that I can do this but I can't.
EldarI probably took away most of the love from Catherine, I would say, and gave it to the dogs, and she says this all the time. Like you know, you show so much love and care for the dogs more than you care for me now, which is a crazy phenomenon when we had dog.
SergiyI had my first dog, my second dog. I couldn't understand that. To me, dogs were everything right. My dog was my baby and I loved my dog more than anybody. I remember you. I would kill for my dog, but now that I have the kids, when I look at the dogs, they're no longer the supreme. Yeah, they're no longer the supreme being now is the child and the dog is the second. But before I thought there's no way I loved my dog more than my friends. They're my friends' kids.
SergiyI was like, okay, it's a kid's kid, but that's my dog. I love my dog so much. But now when I changed I was like, yeah, my kid's more important thing and the dog is second. So if I had a dog I would say kill the kid over the dog Before. If my dog and another kid I would be like I don't know, I can't.
EldarYou never had a dog with the kids.
SergiyThat's the only difference.
EldarI had Lola for so many years, but it was different. Lola was one moment of your time, and then your kids were a different moment.
SergiySo if the kids later on want a dog, it'll be interesting to see how that works. Until now, we don't want one, just a lot of work.
TommyI wonder if part of the process is sticking with the decisions that you make. You know you have certain responsibilities and you question yourself, maybe as a new parent or as a new dog owner or something. Right, they're two different things, but what I'm saying is like you have to like, stay, you have to stand behind the decisions.
SergiySometimes you have to just stop and let everything you gotta. Stop life like all this other shit and concentrate on your family, like your kids, whatever it is your dog, and give it some time.
TommyDoes that satisfy the question you had?
SergiyWe're so used to the phones and all this technology that we forget to.
EldarThere's a very specific thing that happens to us when you come to this realization of like finally, the straw that broke the camel's back. I think we're trying to understand the makeup of the straw Right, like what finally happened, that search finally transformed right, or totally transformed from one to another, or Mike wants another meat, one to another right. What actually happens there? Is there an equation? If there is, can we totally says no, you cannot.
MikeI think, yeah, it's hard to. Nobody's journey to that point is gonna be the same, but the point I think we can identify right, we understand that it exists, it's there for everyone. Does it come with age? I?
Eldarthink that might be one of the variables that he's talking about. Time is one of those variables.
SergiyBecause I look at Kai as dead. That guy's calm as a freaking person could be. He really Super calm and supposedly he told me he was not coming like that, but he's always calm. Yeah.
EldarHe's always he's pretty chill.
SergiyVery chill, very calm. I mean he does lose his cool, but I've never seen it. I mean I've seen it, I'm lying, but he gets frustrated easily, but he's always very calm and whenever he starts he just works at it and just grinds it down to there he's able to focus in. I cannot focus like that. Well, what do?
Eldaryou mean, this is it. This is where the calm has come from.
SergiyIt's because he has the ability to stay in that moment for long periods of time Because I used to be able to, before all this technology, like before the first time I played a video game, I could do that for a minute.
EldarBut even I think you can get that calm from your video game if you wanted to. But the world of video gaming is not as simple as it looks like.
SergiyWell, technology in general, phones and everything. I see him going. He puts his phone on the side and for the next six hours, he's digging the hole my dad's like this too.
EldarI would check my phone a thousand times before I even got to digging the hole and then I was like it's very slowly, I would preserve the ability to extract something from the small things that we don't value anymore.
SergiyI've been trying to aim at that, where I tried to find the time. I'm literally just do it and go at it, try to put the phone down because there's holes in the back of my head. I got to pick up, I got to check what are the clients call. What is this call? What is this emergency? It's like nonstop. I'm just looking at this phone like this and I'm not digging because I'm looking at the phone. The hole is not dug out.
EldarSo are we saying anything, guys?
ToliyYeah, I mean for me the way that I'm looking at it, because what you're asking for is you're asking for when does the change happen? And almost the way that this the click I want to click. Yes, see, the click is. It's referred to in a magical way almost, but then you want a non-magic answer.
EldarBecause I want you to identify very specific realizations that attribute to that thing.
ToliyYeah, well, it's hard to do, I agree, because it's over time. Yeah, but I feel like my answer is the, like, the combining of all those things. Yeah, I agree with you. What happens? Right, your ego has to be lowered to a certain thing. You have to be able to take particular levels, for example, of criticism, right, yeah, amount of time has to pass. You need to be able to synchronize yourself with the truth and the reality of things when it comes to that thing. You need to carry yourself in a humble way when it comes to in relations with that thing. Right, to me, those are the encompassing things of the change. But, yeah, you can't give a logical answer to a magical question, right, because it's like, because it looks magical the way that it's talked about, the click.
EldarWhat are we saying? I think he's right. I'm sorry, mike, but I think he's right.
Understanding the Process of Growth
EldarWe're doing the process in justice by trying to make it a click. It's not a fucking click. No, it's not a turning on a switch. Because let's go back to your example of your parents, right, where you used to get frustrated with them a certain type of way and then we raised the awareness long enough. You went there, you engaged, you tried things out, you failed, you got up. You failed, you got up, you know. And then after a while you're like I got it, I know what to do and you did it long enough. To be like this is second nature now you see. So to attribute a click or that little thing where it's like the switch happens, is to take away from the process, and the process is the fucking switch, which is very dynamic.
MikeWell, that's what I was going to say. I think, once you understand that life, the way life works, and you start, kind of when you start actually believing in those things that Sakati said which I think referred to it, which we refer to a lot is because they're so powerful when you actually adopt a belief that you know that you know nothing, you adopt those other great things that he says and then you start trying to make the effort to live your life that way, right, like not make assumptions and try to be humble and all the things that you do. You understand that that is the, if you can have that belief system and you try to live by that, that is going to get you to this place, I think, faster, like adapting a philosophy of your life, the way you want to live your life, right, because I think, then you're like, hey, this is my roadmap, you know, like I think, as you have more experience and practice in this phenomenon that surges you know phenomenon but surges, saying then you realize, in a way, the process right, like it's simple, like you want to get humble. Okay, how bad do you want to get humbled? How bad do you want to get to the point where you're going to make the change.
MikeYou realize that it's in your power, right that? Like, hey, I know how I got here, right. Something like, for example, the thing with my parents. I know how I got there, right. I raised my hand. I said, yo, I don't know how to deal with this, I need help, right. And then I did what was told. I kept coming back for help, right, yeah.
MikeI mean, this is mind blowing to me, this is mind blowing to me, and I think that that applies to anything If you want to achieve something right.
TommyDo you know what this guy just said? Which part?
Eldaris mind blowing.
TommyThis is a epiphany like epiphany for me right now. Really Tell me which part of this is epiphany for you and what Mike just said about making a roadmap and laying out a philosophy for yourself. Bro, just fucking clear the level of the playing field right here.
EldarWhat do you think we're doing here?
TommyFor Mike. Hold on, I just have to give him credit.
EldarThat's. This sounds like the most humble version of Mike I've ever heard it sounds like you've been absent for a very long time my friend and the person that you're sitting across from you, it's no longer Mike, it's somebody else and you ought to get to know him. So if this is the thing that you're having right now, you guys like to relate on the accents? Right, we do. Okay, good luck Charlie. Good luck Charlie. I've got to clip your nuts when you clip mine and we're going to be clipped together. Yeah.
TommyUh-huh.
MikeSo I think, yeah, those things that Sock said, that we reference a lot, they slip in my mind now, but one of those things is very important is like I know that I know nothing. If you adapt that philosophy and there's a difference between Serge actually believing in that, what he said, what he experienced, and he actually genuinely asked for help. He was not lying, he wasn't faking it. This is straight pure as it can get.
MikeI'm assuming right If the results are followed, because he genuinely said yo, I'm humble, I don't know what to do, I need help. He fired himself. Wow, you know. That's why, actually, what happened, if you can get some.
EldarSo you're saying that Serge is a person who only learns through a lot of pain?
MikeIf we're taking what Serge said to be the truth. If this is the experience and he actually has changed, You're saying that he's really, really, really, really, really dumb.
EldarHe's looking at us. He's like he's getting ready. Which hand should I punch you in the face with? You know what I mean? Yeah, this one or that one? He could punch him, that guy right there. No, no, but yeah you're right.
MikeBut I think that's what it is, and I don't think we can ever predict when. That moment when we say yo, I'm a fucking idiot, I don't know, help me please. I'm like no, I got this shit, I'll figure it out. I'm not going to ask him before I help him, I'm going to do it on my own. Fuck everybody. You know that attitude.
EldarYou know what? I think, that, yeah, I agree with you 100% and I think that that moment that Serge went through and so many people and everyone, including myself, goes through, this moment of like yo help me, I can't do this anymore it's super necessary and it's almost an indicator to show us that, yeah, like we know, we think that we know it all and we actually don't know shit. This is the example of to show you that I don't know shit, yeah.
MikeAnd if you adapt this thing right In the more and more areas of your life, yeah, this will get you to the place where you want to be in more areas of your life. You want to be healthy. Adapt this thing, say yo, I want to be healthy, but I don't know how. What does that look like? I want to lose weight so I can be healthy. I want to do this. You keep raising your hand, saying I don't know.
EldarSo would you say that the statement of I know that I know nothing is the only statement or gateway to heaven.
MikeAbsolutely, I think so, yeah. And now, if you can apply this like this as your, let's just say, it's going to sound cliche, but as the guiding principle of philosophy in life. How about a religion?
EldarYeah.
MikeIf you adopt this as your religion and you really like when, when you adopt it. I'm not saying like oh yeah, like I actually mean it like Serge meant it.
SergiyI know that I know nothing is my religion at that moment, for some reason after it happened, I felt like somebody was on my side. Oh yeah, because somebody was helping me. Like, yeah, like somebody was like. I felt like I was a team with somebody, like I was not by myself anymore. Wow, like I always felt. I always felt alone and at that moment when I asked for help, I felt like but you?
Mikethat feeling of aloneness with your ego but it was crazy.
SergiyIt was so I haven't had to do it since my son was born. It was so instant, oh shit. It was so instant Like I went from crying to no crime, feel amazing happy, and it's just like somebody just brushed it off of me. And since that day, oh like for days it has been like two weeks now or so I've been feeling like somebody's next to me helping me out, like I don't know who it is, but I'm saying Would you use the word God to describe it?
SergiyI didn't ask God for help, but I don't. It feels like somebody's there with me.
EldarYou became a believer.
SergiyI don't know yet. Are you going to church after this? I'm not going to church. I, when I was little, I believed in God a lot and I always prayed every single day and I talked to him, but I never went to church because I believed. If you believe in God, it's in you. You don't have to go and congregate with a lot of people asking for help and whatever, whatever. If you believe in something higher you know, higher power it's with you all the time. You could talk to it anytime you want. That's what I. You know, as a kid I talked to him all the time and he helped me get through. You know, when my parents left and I lived with other people who went through abusing my brother, they helped me a lot but as time went on, I kind of forgot about it and you know, figure it out. I could figure it out myself. I guess you know all this. You know 30 years later.
EldarI guess I figured out that. I can figure it out myself. Yeah, and that's how the rhythm talking you know, what I mean, yeah, so I told you something or no productive. I think that one thing that we came conclusion to is the fact that the process is the switch Right. It's hard to look at the process as the switch, obviously, because the switch is, by definition, is contradictory to the process.
MikeWell, I think it's paradoxical right. It's contradictory, Contradictory.
EldarRight, I go over there right now and I turn it into a switch and then the light's going to go on. Right, so it's not going to go on through the process. Right, it's a long process that takes a time in order to solidify and understand and our realizations and humbling. You know these other experiences that make up the switch. So, yeah, I think that we actually came up with a question or a statement or conclusion or maybe thing, using the wrong words. Yeah, there's no way to. You have to redefine the whole question based on how we just describe this, is that the process is the process. There's no way around it and to describe it in one moment is to take away from the actual beauty from it.
MikeAnother way of correcting me from wrong, but another way of saying it it's not destination, it's the journey. We always focus on this destination where we're trying to go, not so much focus on how we're trying to get there. But that's actually the most important part is how you journey life, yeah. You know yeah. Or this thing that you're trying to solve.
EldarYeah, that's a very good point. So so can I get one? Yeah, Tom, this is when I asked the question. Go ahead, elder, but I'm also going to make a statement.
TommyI'm going to start shutting people down. That was not there yet. Keep your mouth shut. I'm fucking keeping these.
EldarSo do we have more clarity of what we talked about? Is it bringing us more comfort on the journeys that we're currently on Totally? Is it bringing you more comfort that you are actually on the right journey, that the switch will be within the process that you're on and that, and that brings you some kind of peace? Does it, or am I jumping to conclusion?
ToliyWell, I mean like, I feel like, because you're a thoughtful kid, I feel like I.
Finding Peace Through Understanding
EldarGenerally.
ToliyI mean, like I feel, like I didn't, I understand that, like those principles that I was saying that I'd need to tune in to them, right For me to accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish, like I feel like that's almost like a factual to me, but does it bring me peace?
EldarI mean Knowing that you are part of that process right now and that that process some one day is actually ignite or make a switch in your mind, that you're no longer that same person that you are right now, that you're a better version of yourself, like Serge described.
ToliyWell, yeah, yeah, I mean like that's the goal, I think is to have that kind of change. But usually what brings me peace is Like I feel like peace is not like For me, like I'm in peace when I have a recognized state of peace and for me, like when I recognize what like that kind of state like it's, and when is that so? For me it happens when I'm focusing on something and I actually understand it in the moment.
EldarOh, and like the things.
ToliySimultaneously yeah, like when we were on that walk and I was breaking up all those. You know that, like I feel like I'm doing good, good, good on this, but you were bringing in doubts yeah, bringing in doubt and issues and then we were able to have that conversation and I was able to understand it right. After that, I felt that peace.
EldarAfter that.
ToliyBecause, yeah, because like there was things that was unclear, and then when things became clear and then I had the level of focus to kind of understand what you were saying and I felt that and like I felt that I understood it. And when I did in that moment, that's when I felt peaceful.
ToliyLike afterwards Is it the last thing? Not always, because if I don't have that kind of level of focus, like if you don't have an extended level of focus, then you won't have an extended level of like felt peace. Right, when someone says like oh, I'm at peace with this, right, like to me I can't understand that as like, as something that is just like, like I don't know what that means, without me saying in the moment that, oh, it's a moment of understanding, which is a moment of recognized like peace. Okay, so, like, to me, peace is a byproduct of understanding, because if you don't understand, then you'll almost have like an ignorance, like a peace right, where, like something just feels good but you don't know why, yeah, kind of thing, yeah, and that moment, like a byproduct of that, is peace.
EldarOkay, I don't know if that makes sense it probably does, but I don't have time to understand it yet. Mike, no, tom no, thank God.
MikeYeah, yeah, I'm not sure like the word peace. I'm not sure how to interpret it properly, you know, yeah, I'm not sure. Like what is peace? Is that like? Yeah, how do I, how do I understand that? Like you're in a peaceful state, yeah, what is that?
ToliyWell, yeah, that's what I'm saying. My definition of peace is like, like I'm at peace when I have a moment of understanding and. I'm in like chaos and like like I don't know what's the opposite of it.
EldarIt sounds almost sounds like a relief for the moment.
MikeYeah.
EldarIt doesn't feel like you close the chapter on, like a significant story of your life.
ToliyOh yeah, but then you're talking about like, for example let me give you a thing right. Yeah.
EldarLet me give you the thing that you can understand To be retired, yeah, okay, to be retired totally Everywhere, wherever that is right Money, fame, power, what other things back in that comes with this? You know what I mean? Whatever Recognition and all this other shit. He retired and I think that he's in peace with those things, but he no longer needs right Money out of that, from from getting, from doing that sport fame, from doing that sport recognition or any kind of power. He's at peace with this area of his life. Okay, I'm not sure he's at peace somewhere else, yeah.
ToliyAnd I think he's not, yeah. So I would say that, within that area, like I would interpret that as like he has like a focused understanding of what's going on, okay, in those things, fully, fully, fully. And if he has that and he's maintaining it, yes, yes, he's at peace with the people of peace. Maybe, along the way, particular wrenches could get thrown in his process. For example, more money, more fame. Let's say, someone beats Islam and is talking crazy shit. Yeah Right, revenge. Does that make him feel a particular way?
EldarYeah, maybe he's not a piece of revenge.
ToliyLet's say, someone goes out and they can take over and knocks Islam out and says, like you know, everything that that guy's that could be his father taught him was all BS. Like these guys are pussies. Yeah, well, that make him feel a particular type of way.
MikeWe saw him get out of pocket with the Connor A little bit. Yeah, a little bit, when he started, I mean obviously he's human being.
EldarYeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. So he's prone to certain things. Right, yeah, push the right button, push the right button, that's what I'm saying, like that was probably a lapse in a particular focus.
ToliyYes, Right, and peace Right. So like, yeah, to me peace is a moment of understanding and if you could extend that moment and have that, like you know, longer term focus on it, you probably develop in that area a particular level of calmness. Yeah, Right.
EldarOkay, right, sustained Right, amount of focus, and you know, peace gives you that calmness. That's peace, right yeah.
ToliyAnd that could be in all different like spheres or like yeah.
EldarDifferent, different, different places. Yeah.
ToliyYeah, maybe an example of that. Maybe it'd be for me. I mean, this is probably not not like a big thing, but it had up in today. There's maybe a thing about it. Like I was speaking on the phone today with that customer that was saying all kinds of crazy shit. How I didn't tell her about this. Yeah yeah yeah.
EldarThis like kind of like you know and then she pat me in the back, was saying that I'm like a the best customer service in Europe.
ToliyYeah, yeah, yeah, like sincere person, but like she was just saying like stupid and nasty things and like the most ignorant things to me ever yeah Right and like, like, for example, in that moment, like I felt that, like I know I didn't do this. Like. I know this is not what happened.
EldarThe formation of character to the next level.
ToliyI know that she doesn't. She just doesn't understand what's going on. Yeah, she's trying to tell me that she can't send me a file, and an Excel file that she's looking at an Excel. Yeah, you know she's extremely ignorant and to me it's like in that moment, no matter what's happening, like that recognition of what's going on to me was like a level of peace in the moment that was a good. And I could handle it a particular way yeah.
ToliyWhere maybe early or someone else might be a hothead and get angry Like what the hell's going on here?
ToliyAnd then, yes, start going off at this person. The big coming defensive and stuff like that being defensive.
ToliyYeah, like what are you saying? You know the point, I think, in that moment the ability to like joke around with it or play with it or like as a display that you mastered this. No, not even that I mastered anything, but in the moment, like a recognition of what's going on, you understand what's going on and you could see that, like this person is like not competent and they, you just understand that they don't know what's going on.
Discovering Passions and Self-Acceptance
ToliyMike
Yeah, seeing things through what they are.
ToliyYeah, yeah, yeah, because of that.
EldarYou was able to apply the right?
ToliyYeah, you could act in a very like peaceful, calm way, yeah, even though someone's trying to stir your hive crazy yeah. Because they're just saying crazy shit. Yeah, you know.
EldarSo, Mike, what are you thinking?
MikeI understand what he's saying. Yeah, I understand. Now, what am I thinking?
EldarI think we did a pretty good job on it. Yeah. On trying to pinpoint or trying to liberate some of our thoughts about this thing, about the click of finally becoming second nature. Right, it's a pretty serious phenomenon, it's an interesting one, it's fascinating.
ToliyYeah, I feel like anything that anyone wants to become second nature or get to that level.
ToliyIf they work backwards and they go over, for example, like I'm not sure if I'm missing any other principles, right, but like, if they start working backwards there, I guarantee you, if they're open enough, they're going to see that they have severe deficiencies in those things. And when those things are like gone and it might be different for all different people, right, someone, they might be stronger in one thing and weaker in the other thing, but I guarantee you, in those, all those different things, there's going to be something that is like clearly deficient, that that will prevent them from like, from that like becoming them, and like, I think, if they get to a point where it's not, then there's almost no like there's, there's, there's nothing that like physically happens. Then you were, you were just the embodiment, yeah, in that thing, combined with those principles, and you've connected, finally, those points and connected Like that's when you become it. It, yeah, without I agree, yeah, yeah, like, yeah, like that you know yeah, you know what I'm saying, tom.
EldarI know I think you struggle with this point.
TommyNo, I've been, I've been discovering is there yet.
TommyI've been discovering, like, what I want to do with my life and what I love. And, you know, for some time I think a little arrogance drove my, you know my, my passion to to like, maybe, please, my passion to be to fall into the kind of trap of doing things for, for, for, for, I don't know, it's hard to say. You know, I, I felt, when I discovered that a that I, that I like running and I like working out and going to the gym, that that was going to basically drive like a whole lot of other change in my life. I, really I had this attachment to this high performance, you know, like incredible ability, let's just say you know, not any particular kind of athleticism, but like this idea that you know like, let's say, you had like a magic word that could, you know, like reduce all your suffering and like giving gives you that that could give you basically like free reign to, like you know to, to go through life without having to deal with anything, without having to, like you know, face obstacles and stuff.
TommyIt's like, it's like that, it's it's relying arrogantly on this thing that like, in fact, like what I was doing was, you know, consuming like all the time that I had precious time that I had to to try to meet. To try to meet someone else's expectations of what, like you know, I mean, or to like, because I set my expectations so high of what people should be, I wasn't really at peace with myself. I didn't really know, you know, I didn't really know what I wanted at the time. So now that I'm kind of discovering it, I'm like I'm satisfied knowing that I can take from that a little part which was an interest and a love and like just keeping healthy, you know, going to the gym to sweat, being around my friends, like that, all that kind of puts in place a decent amount of a good amount of the right amount, specifically for me, who I am today, that I love what I do.
TommyI could. I can now love another part of my life, but not like you know, not not have any attachments to it, and like it's a little different today, you know, okay, so like a writer, stephen King.
Daily Routine and Personal Growth
TommyHe writes in his book it's like a memoir, that like what his routine is. What does he do? He sits, he writes every morning 3000 words. That's his routine.
EldarEverything that you say to us do we apply to a story that you read one at one point or another?
TommyNo, no, this specifically. Yes, he says this, this. He says that you know. You know, people talk about what their routines are like. For example, if it's, I don't know, a fighter or a writer, okay, that sounds nice, doesn't? It has a little rhyme I love you. He says.
TommyYou know, and I'm pretty sure others who I've read have said that they this is not like the end stop. For them, in life there's more, there's more past, what your work is, and for them, for him, stephen King, he was like 3000 words is his what he does. And then there's another part of that process when he finishes his story that I won't get into. He also thinks that, like, a little exercise is important for your mind, and this is what he's saying is like here's this integral part of a life that keeps tomorrow going, that allows you tomorrow to wake up and follow your routine, which is the most essential thing. But I think it's like, totally you brought up this point. I think it's crazy to try to share equal parts among everything and to make which, like I said, ticking off boxes. You know, like, like you, you have a you know what I mean. Like you have a list of things that you need to do to reach the ultimate.
ToliyTommy, you lost that. You used to be a little arrogant.
EldarYou used to be a little ant, okay, and now you're trying to scream with the elephants.
TommyI'm I'm look it's, it's actually it's. It's interesting to me like no, Thomas Marlin.
ToliyCheeto Vera said in the press conference you can't wipe your ass before you take a shit.
TommyLike let's say, let's say today you had a bad day at work, right, you can't?
Eldaryou're losing your shit. Let's say. Let's say today you have a. Have you ever went to the bathroom and before you took a shit?
SergiyHe might try it.
TommyWhat I'm saying is what if you just, you know, throw, you know like what if you basically give up? You know what if you give up because one little bad thing happens in one part of your life? I think that's kind of like. That's what I was facing, that's what. That's what I dealt with. You know, I had a relationship with running and then I kind of started to give up. You know I I lost hope. I didn't even know what I was, what I wanted, I didn't know what I was aiming for.
MikeYou're arrogantly running right Tom Huh. You're arrogantly running.
TommyI didn't know what I was aiming for. I knew I was good at it, but I didn't really know what I was aiming for. And look I, I sit where I am today, happier, I'm not, I'm not saying, tom, you're developing a little bit of character.
EldarThank you, I appreciate that because you're fighting back with Toly. It's a show something. Does it mean that you're right? No, he has no idea, but you develop in character. He might have seen a little bit of the character.
SergiyMight be bad or good he might have seen the jury still out on it, he might have seen like a little inch of the devil earlier, but now he's seeing all of it.
TommyThe jury's not how he's sitting.
EldarYeah, listen Toly, you already have anything to say about this, About what?
ToliyAbout what Tom just said. I told you I got lost when he started the statements, when he started his statement by saying that he used to be a little arrogant.
EldarHe used to be a little arrogant.
TommyYou're looking at him like he is just going to confirm everything you say. But if he doesn't, you're fucked.
EldarIf you said that, I have to confirm it because it's generally an arrogant statement.
TommyYou just again with the hand bro.
ToliyWhat you are unbelievable. You're saying I'm paying him to agree with me.
TommyI'm asking you to be like a dignified, virtuous person for a moment.
EldarI'm trying to be he is. You want to receive that. You want to receive that. Prevent it, oh my God.
SergiyHere is your voice.
TommyYou have to give it. You have to be able to give it to the seated Tom, despite of what you feel right now.
EldarI haven't said what am I feeling. What do you think I'm feeling? I don't care what you feel.
TommyBut despite of what you're saying, I'm going to say a general statement here.
EldarIt's not that. It's neither false or true. It's just what. It is, okay, despite of what you feel right now, tom. He's already regretting what he's fucking saying, tom, despite of what you're feeling or what you're seeing transpiring right now and how you feel about Tom.
TommyI'm not looking out for myself.
EldarThat's what I'm saying. Totally, you are ours.
ToliyOkay, I'll take it and our revenue goals are increasing. You're by your.
EldarYou are ours, tom. It doesn't matter what anybody says. You know what I'm saying. We will defend you In this circle. Sometimes we won't, but overall we will defend you from the world.
MikeProtect you against the world.
ToliyYes, we're protecting you from the world, not in here, but from the outside world. Yes, from the outside world.
EldarWe will scold you here, it's our payment for your technique, Guys.
TommyI want it to be very, very clear, right now that my journey is actually being is more clear to me daily. My journey is something.
EldarWe're happy for that. We're happy about that, you know.
TommyI take a look at my journey and it's we're not going to believe it, but we're happy.
MikeWe're happy for you.
EldarYeah, we're not going to take your words for it, but we're happy that this is what you're experiencing. If this is good for you, you know what I mean.
ToliyYeah, whether it is or not, we're just happy.
EldarWe're happy and whatever it is. Like I said, Tom, whatever you're feeling, you're still ours, Good or bad. You know what I'm saying? You're ours.
ToliyAnd we will call the point is that you know the point is that you are talking about.
EldarYou have immunity Pursuing something. Listen, tom, you have immunity from the world, right, but not from us. But not from us, which is good, like the world is over there. It's a, it's a pressing. You know what I mean. Yeah, but we got you. Okay so we got you. We have your best interests.
TommyYeah, and you should. You should find give up your final words and allow me to just wrap it up yeah.
EldarIf you want to, you can Um, but I think you already did so, mike.
MikeYeah what are you saying, man? I'm saying that, I'm saying that.
Achieving Peace and Resilience Amid Challenges
MikeUm, in this thing, I think there is a thing, I guess um, if you'd like to, whatever goals you have set out to achieve for yourself, right yeah. And if they're goals that are rooted in living a good life, living a virtuous life, the prerequisite is to line up with the truth, right? You always say it. So if totally he's trying to lose weight, for example, or me, if I'm trying to lose weight, which I did for vanity, you will not succeed. Well, you can. You can't succeed.
MikeBut it's, but not where you actually want.
EldarSo, but if you wanted to succeed, for vanity, you will.
MikeYou can't see it for vanity, but um, you'll never be happy.
EldarOkay, that's different you always said that's a different conversation.
MikeYeah, You'll never be happy with, with life, and I think it's important to line up with the truth in whatever you do. So why? Why? Yeah, um, why is this thing so important to you? To me, it's definitely very important because, uh, I'd like to live a happy life and the happiness is directly correlated with this. From, uh, I believe that happiness is directly correlated with living a virtuous life.
MikeYeah, and I think the you know, coming back to what we were talking about earlier, this like a click moment, the faster you realize, right, that well, I mean, I think we agree there's no click but the faster you realize the path to getting to that moment where I don't know you want to call it a click or whatever.
MikeYou know the fastest path to get there is to actually uh, understand the way, like once, like once you experienced this, like I experienced this right with my parents, I was saying, once you realized that there is a little bit of a maybe manual right, I want to call it like, if you humble yourself, if you align them with the truth and not what you're trying to achieve, that is going to expedite your process. Yeah, it could, it should, I think it should, yeah, but if you would prefer to be, you know, egotistical in your feelings, right? Uh, arrogant, whatever, you know making mistakes or not letting of the truth or being on the wrong impression. It's going to delay your process, you know, and it's your choice how long you delay it Once I think you realize how much of an effect you actually have on that process and your uh, growth and your quality of life. Yeah, I don't know if that made sense.
ToliyYeah, one one. One thing I was also just thinking about is, I think that there's there's. There's also like um, like when we were talking about peace I was just thinking about, there's also like, uh, stages or levels of peace. I think too, when it comes out like, for example, I definitely have not even close to figured Like everything out, or even like a good portion of it but you're not a power, just general right.
ToliyNo, not not all things, but but, uh, a long time ago I got a like a um, some kind of sense of peace that I felt that, like that, I do have the power to change these things, or have the power to kind of like to like. Like that I do, I actually do have the power to do all these different things and learn all these different things, and you're not on a lazy river and and uh and uh, change my life in those kinds of ways. So, like that brought me a sense of peace. But that's like that. That goes, um, only so far right. Yeah.
ToliyLike that. Then there's like other levels of it, so so so I was just thinking about that, as I like to blanket, just like you, have peace in this. I think it's very hard because it, it, it's, it's, it's almost like a very focused, like meditative state on that whole portion of your life or your or your thing. But I think it comes, it comes in levels like knowing that you can actually do it, starting to do it, understand that you can do it, then doing it, recognize that you're doing it right. Those, those are all like more added states of peace. That, yeah, that that like you acquire over time, you know.
EldarI agree with that. So did you develop a state of peace for this stuff?
SergiyFor what stuff?
EldarSome of the stresses that you had 100%.
SergiyI had a really bad one. Actually it passed 24 hours. Oh really, it was the worst one, probably in 10 years, and I handle it before. I would have probably lost my mind this time. I couldn't believe it happened, but Can you share?
Eldarcan you share the example, If it's not too?
SergiyNo, it's something in my business. Okay, it's just something that was taken away from me by a big corporation without them caring about me at all, and I couldn't believe that they could do it with such ease, without even telling me about it.
EldarWhatever?
SergiyLike it just happened and they wrote me an email like yeah, we're doing this to you. And I said let me talk to somebody. I'm spending. I'm spending thousands of dollars a year on your platform. Give me a real person to speak to. I wanted them to feel the pain that my family is going through right now for your decision, that you guys randomly did it and you know what they told me. Would they not have anybody to talk to you? We are trained to feel your pain through messaging.
EldarWow.
SergiyThat's what they told me. I said there's no such a thing. You cannot feel pain through messaging and the person goes. The best thing you could do is I share. Right there it was a person talking and speaking to me and he goes to me. The best thing you could do is wait for the email back. And I said I would like to talk to somebody to make this faster. You have to wait. That's all they told me. And for those 24 hours, you know, before I would have lost my mind. And this time I was like I couldn't believe it happened. But I was like you know what? I'll figure it out. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not the worst thing that could ever. It's one of the worst things that ever happened to me. But I said it's probably not the worst that will probably ever happen and I'm going to get through this. And today, like more than 24 hours later, everything has resolved itself and I'm as happy as it could be.
SergiySo, it was just a temporary thing. It was a mistake, I guess, on their side, but the way they handled it, I thought about it. I was like this is illegal. There has to be a class action lawsuit against this. And it will probably happen, because every time in my life where I felt that something like that happened, that injustice happened to me, later on I find those companies in the newspaper or I receive a check for.
EldarWow, you have good stuff, so we have to like bet against those companies.
SergiyYeah, like I would get $100 or $200 saying, oh, they just lost the lawsuit and we found your name in there and I said, okay, it's cool. Obviously my stress is not worth $100. It's worth thousands of dollars to me. Or maybe there has no value because the amount of stress and I told Kai, if this happened to me five years ago, three years ago, I probably would have killed myself or something because it was that bad.
SergiyIn terms of stress level, or would have shut myself down and close myself in the basement. But this time I was like it's stressful, it's, you know, it's, it's. It's something that I didn't think would ever happen, because I got blindsided, I was not prepared for it. Just like that. A snap of a finger of some person who decided to do this is basically shut down my business, entirely Right, and my family has. No, you know, my friend, you cannot make money anymore and I was like you cannot do that.
SergiyNone of your business, how my business is around. None of your business how I run it. None of your business how my clients are. Any of that. It's my business and I deal with it. Why are you people involved? You're receiving your payments, I'm paying for your service all the time. Why would you do that? And I don't know until this day, nobody gave me an answer why they could do that, why they could shut down my business so fast. So you know it resulted so fast, but obviously online. Start reading online. Some people say 120 days. They had to wait.
EldarWow.
SergiyYou know. So I was like yo, this is crazy. But because because I was in that piece, you didn't really I couldn't believe it happened, but it bothered me like it would before, Like the stress levels were none, Like it was like maybe 5%, Like I said before, Did you surprise yourself?
EldarDid you surprise yourself that you reacted the way you did, or?
SergiyI think, no, no, I feel confident now about it. Okay, like when the stress comes in, yeah, I was like I'm going to get through it. I got this, it's not going to stop me. Okay, you know, it's not going to, it's not going to affect my life, because you know, in terms of but was it surprising? Yeah, it's like I get. Yeah.
EldarLike you, surprised yourself, like, oh wow, I can deal with this.
SergiyYeah, like it's like it's like a backstop, because you're so confident about it that you're like I was like, oh, it's cool that I'm getting through it, you know, like easier than a lot easier than I would before.
EldarSo Mike, did you have the same thing when you were dealing with your parents stuff?
MikeYeah, yeah, in.
EldarThe beginning yeah like oh shoot like I surprised myself that I reacted the way I did.
MikeYeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, when it became more second nature you want to use that? Yeah, it definitely was surprising. Like, oh sure, I handled that well. Like I'm handling it without thinking, I just you know okay, yeah.
EldarHmm, cool Instant karma. That's good In a good way.
MikeBut I think it's again. It took time, a lot of time, raising your hand saying I don't know making mistakes falling getting up, keep trying. You know being, I guess yeah.
SergiyYeah, now, this time I laughed. I was like it's just another test for me. Yeah, like I'll get over this test and there'll be another test, and there'll be another test, but if I'm going to keep acting, like I used to act or feel like that, so like I will not make it through life. Yeah, it's just crazy. You're right. So like You're right. Yeah.
EldarOkay, Well listen, second nature solved, right, Tom?
TommyOkay, yeah, I'm taking it. You're taking it.
EldarAny final thoughts? Let's go with search. Any final thoughts on second nature and how to develop second nature and, being almost on autopilot, on things that we've tried to accomplish and be good at, like stress management, for example. I have no clue no clue Okay. Mike.
MikeAny tips to what? What was it Well?
Eldarsecond nature. Like you know, what are your thoughts on second nature and anything else that we talked about that? How does this come about? Like when do we solidify the second nature? Right, like we talked about it?
SergiyI think everybody has a different time, yeah. Some people do it in 30,. Some people do it in 50s and 60s. Yeah, yeah, no, it's definitely. Some people do it maybe earlier, I don't know, but I think Tom has to do it, take it I don't know, maybe, how many times you suffer until you get there, everyone has its own trajectory.
EldarYeah, everybody has a threshold.
SergiyYeah, yeah, how far Mm-hmm, you're going to take it? My brother's a piece. I see him as a piece of the fucking time.
EldarYeah.
SergiyNo matter what.
EldarHe chooses life, and that's it.
SergiyHe chooses life and he's stuck to it and I think he's as happy as he could be. He's calm, yeah, nothing bothers him. Shit, you know.
TommyYeah, there's just births on for me, bro.
EldarOkay, holy moly, what do you got? You're becoming a piece, huh Tom that you're ours. You're timeless. Your art will never be, actualized in real reality but nonetheless you'll be happy what I'm saying is Very liberating.
TommyStop it, hold on. You're going to have to say that again. What?
EldarTo what I said, that you realize that you're timeless, that even though you feel like an artist, you will never actualize any art and that will be okay with you.
TommyYou want to explain how that?
Eldarworks. You're finally going to be at peace with this identity and you're going to liberate yourself.
TommyAll right.
Exploring Human Attributes and Self-Discovery
TommyHow do those words taste in your mouth?
EldarListen, I think they're pretty good for you, man. This is what I would wish for you, man, but you know your arrogance, man, doesn't allow me to actualize this, Tom.
TommyYou're dropping things over there, dude, that's fine, okay, I mean, what I'm saying is so he hasn't been enlightened yet.
SergiyHe's the only unenlightened person here.
EldarYou say he might be very arrogant yeah.
TommyNo, or we could be on the cusp of something huge, oh yeah.
EldarListen, we're trying, tom, we're trying, but you're resisting hard, okay, I mean okay.
TommyYou're a tough cookie to crack. No, I have to think about it a little bit. I have to think about it a little bit, but he's a good egg. This whole thing about peace has got me wondering something.
EldarAll right, we'll get back to you. So yeah, totally Um. Can you find a thoughts on this actualization of our second nature, of our good habits becoming automated?
ToliyYeah, I mean, I think there it's like um, what one to actually? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm not sure if this is like an added thing thing or what, but just my thought on it is, just once you, like um, once you're able to fully understand what's going on, I think that you probably, so maybe a piece of what you're looking to accomplish gets embodied with you permanently, once you understand it and once you understand what's going on, and then that thing now lives in part of you, which is maybe why you don't need to put that kind of level of attention towards it, because you were able to set out to do something and you became now in tune in something, right, so that kind of frequency, as James would say, would like. Now that's a piece of you. So now, because of that, you no longer have to think on that level, because you are it. Now that thing is you and you are it in some form. You know what I'm saying.
MikeYeah, it's like a tool in your tool bag, but you don't have to think about how to actually just whip it out.
ToliyYeah, yeah, it became in you.
ToliyIt's almost like the opposite of my movie references, but, like in the Harry Potter films, the main bad guy, voldemort, he commits what they say is the biggest sin for wizards or whatever.
ToliyHe takes a piece of his soul and he splits it among a bunch of items. So he's immortal, and to kill him you have to like destroy all those, if the fine, all those different items that are scattered everywhere and do that. So I feel like in this example it's almost like the opposite, where it's like you acquire these things and now these things kind of become part of you, and I think that's probably why you no longer have to put that kind of like thought towards them. You know, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm thinking about that. But as far as like tips on like getting there, yeah, I mean I can only just refer back to. I think what I was saying before is that to outline those different principles and again, I think, once you think about how you stack up against yourself when it comes to your relationship with those things, if you want to progress, then I think you need to line up with those things.
EldarYou know yeah.
ToliySo, okay that's all I got.
EldarAnyone else. No, you me Listen. I think just knowing the fact that this, how this works, is a fucking, is a crazy phenomenon, yeah.
MikeThat's what.
EldarI'm saying it's a crazy phenomenon, right, if you can raise enough awareness to yourself that this is how this works, you can literally accomplish anything, which can be dangerous, depending on the choices you make. Yeah, right, but you can apply this method. Obviously, it's anything that you want, which is also very, I guess, maybe optimistic with you as well. You know that this is how it works and if this is what you follow, this is what you do and this is how you do it, you can really liberate yourself from all the fucking little fucking anxiety that you're working against. You know All the problems and stuff like that. So I don't know what my final thoughts are on this shit. This is like I have to think about it more.
ToliyI had a question that I was thinking about non-relation to this, which is like a separate question. I was wondering about. So, for example, like, are like, so, like those things that I was bringing up, are they called like principles, or are they called different things or like is there another word for them? What things Like? What would you call like? What is like humility called? Or like what are they?
MikeYeah, virtues or anti-virtues.
ToliyLike what, yeah, like.
EldarWell, yeah, I guess defining an ego is very difficult.
ToliyNo well, not defining an ego, but like I'm blanketing these things as calling them like principles Like these are all like almost like pillars of like who you are and what makes you up.
EldarYeah, yeah, yeah, your makeup, your makeup, yeah.
ToliyRight, okay, and like attributes, maybe attributes, yeah. My question is have all attributes have been already discovered? Like, has all truth and all attributes been discovered About humans?
EldarLike, like, for example, like maybe discovered, yes, but studied long enough and thoroughly probably not.
ToliyYeah, maybe the discovery, because, right, like we hear about all of these like, for example, like ancient, like you know, I think they're Greek, right, Like Greek philosophers and all these different things, you know that Socrates said, like Aristotle said, plato said, and like they, basically they existed, I guess, on Earth, like way before we did. Right, yeah, but not too long ago either.
EldarYeah, we're talking about, you know, two, three thousand years ago.
ToliyYeah, so. So that's what I'm saying, like in the last, like two or three thousand years right? Have all of these concepts that we like understand today, or or, or like, or, or, just like the truth of who we are today? Have all of those been discovered and it's a matter of you paying attention and understanding and, like, tuning into those, or are there still things out there that, like, have not been understood or not been discovered yet?
EldarYeah, I would say no, no, no, no. I would say no that we did not discover all the facets that makes us up who we are. Okay, we're very vast.
MikeWell, if you look even to like Anastasia stuff a lot of stuff that she talks about and things that we can do you know a lot of people. It's definitely a lot less common general knowledge versus like Socrates. So, like probably a generally population, a lot more people know about Socrates and things that he speaks about than, for example, anastasia, and she talks about also different certain concepts.
ToliyBut you know. No, no, I mean I, I understand that, like some people might know, like more more, like some concepts more and those. What I'm saying is that, like is there something that makes up who we are, how we act or why we do things or what we do that has not been yet like identified, and like it's something that is happening because we're humans, but it's not something that we've like, like, like coined, like okay, like this is ego, right. Like ego, you can say the word and you can talk about it and you can discuss it. Like love, you can use the word, you can say it, you can discuss it. Anger, you can use the word, you say, discuss it. Sadness, like all those things, right. Like you can talk about with words, those kinds of things and discuss them. My, my, my questions, just like, are there things out there that have not been like coined? Like this is what it is and has never been talked about?
ToliyWell, maybe, like in our, in our body, like certain you know, processes are not explained, well, not even that I'm talking about, like on that same level of like ego, of like the word sad, like sadness, anger, love, humility, compassion, right, like those are very to me, like strong, like characteristics or like traits or like attributes, right and both in good and bad ways, right.
MikeI think maybe if we, if humanity, reaches a higher level, like you know, there may be much higher things that you're talking about that we can experience, but I'm not sure I mean I think there's probably a list of traits, yeah.
TommyYeah, I think, I think, yeah there are definitely personality traits that have been listed. Different, different traits of humans that have been listed.
ToliyLike. My question is how like and maybe there is like like a literature, I guess, behind this, but like how was ego discovered and how was it coined?
EldarFor example, like where, the where was I identified?
ToliyI find like yeah like yo, that is ego, because right now we can talk about it and it's very like vivid and we can really describe it and we can understand it right and communicate it and we get it right, Like at one point these things existed in us, right yeah, but they were not coined yet or talked about yet or understood yet.
ToliySo, so, so, like. One whole curiosity I have is like how did someone find out that? Like, so this is your ego, because it's like you're talking about something that exists but doesn't exist, right? Yeah, it's true. Like if you have a big ego, it's not like you have a giant, like dick on your forehead, and the bigger you have the longer it is. Yeah, right, yeah, it's not like something that you can like measure that kind of physical way.
EldarYeah, but you can, but you can, yeah, right, and everybody can look at it and do yeah and feel it yeah.
ToliySo, like one question I have again is like, are there other things that are currently experiencing or existing that we have not yet coined or identified or have had conversations about? Yeah, that's one question, and the second one is like around how did like those things get discovered? Like you know, you got to show compassion to this person. Like how did that click moment or like whatever it was makes sense for a person to like say that like this is what needs to happen.
EldarWell, okay, that's a very good question for next topic, I think totally. Thank you. So you want me to try to tackle a little bit. Give you some of it before you go home, or no? You?
Toliydon't have to I don't have to Cool.
EldarYeah, I was going to talk about pain, right, and I'd be able to identify pain.
ToliyOh yeah, pain is good yeah.
EldarAll right, cool, you see it, yeah, okay.
ToliyBut, like to me, it's so crazy that someone was able to identify like ego, for example, like that's so crazy.
EldarYeah, I think that we were able to communicate that like hey, how do you feel right now? Oh yeah, you're right, Not so good. Well, how do you feel right now? Oh yeah, this is pretty good. What are you doing? You know what I mean Are you smiling or being compassionate?
ToliyYeah, that makes you so good, the whole pointing process of that to me is like crazy.
EldarYeah, I think that we went through that process.
ToliyHow was a human able to be like yo you?
Eldarhave a big ego. I'm trying to explain to you, but I'm listening. Yeah, no, no, no, we can definitely do it.
ToliyWhat you're saying, but like to me, like that's like a crazy thing.
EldarIt is a phenomenon or?
Toliylike the realization that like compassion is needed. Yeah Right, like what happened before humans had compassion.
MikeYeah.
ToliyIt was just action, and either reward or punishment right. There was no in between, and maybe someone one day realized that, like hey, compassion is needed towards ignorance, or it's like you?
Eldarknow. That's why I think that stuff like that.
The Importance of Philosophy
EldarI think through philosophy or at least the practice of asking questions and trying to find out what the truth is. We could find out the intricacies of these old details to see whether or not it's really serving us. Yeah, pleasure, or it's not. Pain, right, that's it.
ToliyYeah, it's also funny. I feel like a lot of the preconceived notions or like the beliefs around philosophy revolve around that, like it's not for practical life, it's just like for theorizing.
EldarYeah, you know, yeah, and I think that's a big misconception. Yeah, yeah, philosophy, I think, is the pillar to live in a good life.
ToliyYeah.
EldarLike it's the most important thing. Yeah, it's to discuss life is to find out what's actually going on, and I think a lot of people are doing it without actually understanding that they're doing it.
ToliyYeah, they're just doing it with a very poor, just their association, or like. When they hear that word they're like ah, like.
EldarYeah, no, yeah, it's stigma. There's a stigma around the world, yeah.
ToliyBut again there was also a stigma very long around, like mental health and stuff like that.
ToliyYeah, and now there's a huge, huge, huge Awareness about it, huge, like shift on that right, right, where it was like there was a point in this world that was like bro, like yeah, stocks would you invest in right now, knowing the things that you know, knowing the trajectory Not going to perform? Well, or the ones that are going to, that are going to perform really well, be based on the trajectory of the humankind and some of the patterns that you've seen in life. And video.
EldarHuh, that's what you got for us. Wow, you're trying to set everybody up. No, no, no.
ToliyWe'll wrap up with that by a huge put why, why?