Dennis Rox: Confessional Self-Improvement & Psychology
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The Dennis Rox Podcast is a raw, confessional group dialogue that goes straight to the roots of human suffering.
In deeply introspective, unfiltered sessions, Eldar, Katherine, Mike, and Toliy dismantle the psychological conditioning, ego traps, and hidden conflicts keeping you stuck—with zero fluff and total vulnerability.
We confront the ego, relationships, identity, the fear of joy, and what it actually takes to become free.
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Dennis Rox: Confessional Self-Improvement & Psychology
119. Self-Sacrifice
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Are you being "nice," or are you just too cowardly to be honest?
Phillip opens up the floor with a raw question: Why, after years of Personal Development, is he still trapped in the "People Pleaser" cycle? The crew dives into the Growth Mindset required to stop "lightening the fall" for others and start speaking the truth. Eldar and Mike challenge the room on whether people-pleasing is actually an act of manipulation—an attempt to control how others feel because you are afraid of their reaction.
We explore the transformative power of a true connection and why your career choices, income goals, and lifestyle are all "irrelevant" until you fix your ability to be authentic. The episode takes a wild turn into a Game of Thrones metaphor, comparing the "Wildling" nature of their pup Penny to the "Jon Snow" stoicism required to lead your own life.
Key Takeaways:
- The Manipulation of Niceness: Why trying to "lighten the fall" for someone else is actually a form of Emotional Intelligence failure.
- The "Honesty" Journey: Understanding that being honest isn't about being mean—it's about respecting yourself and the other person enough to tell the truth.
- Transformation Over Career: Why your "values and beliefs" will always supersede your "career choices" once you hit a higher level of awareness.
- The Wildling vs. The Lannister: A deep dive into Social Dynamics using the archetypes of Game of Thrones to explain personal temperament.
Insightful Moment:
"Why do you try to lighten the fall? Why can't you be honest? What is holding you back from letting people know exactly how you feel?" > — Phillip
Are you ready to stop being a "people pleaser" and start being a person? The crew forces a confrontation with the "Jon Snow" within us all—facing the hard truths so we can finally move toward a life of Success Habits and real connection.
Listen now to find out if you're a "Wildling" at heart or if you're still just paying debts you don't owe.
Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9
Navigating People Pleasing and Self-Identity
PhillipOn this week's episode we're both going to the place that the people in love are going. Yeah, where do I get off thinking that I can do that as a person that's not in love with the other person? Like, do we think that we can manipulate life and love?
EldarIt's a completely transformative experience when it comes to you, your values, your beliefs, your career choices, everything, how much you want to make, where you want to live, how you want to live All that shit is irrelevant, bro.
KatherineHe's going to be aware when it clicks.
MikeHe'll know, He'll know, you guys sent me on this journey. This is the same thing. I went on. You said you want to go do this, go do this, go do it, but now with a completely different awareness.
EldarAll right, Phillip Introduce the topic of your question.
PhillipYeah, so my question, I guess, is why am I still a people pleaser?
Phillipafter all these years. Yeah, I think people pleasing in regards to making plans with friends, dating whatever it may be, in any capacity with your family, and if somebody is reaching out to you, why do you try to lighten the fall? Why can't you be honest? And what is holding you back from letting people know exactly how you feel? Are you afraid of fully expressing yourself yourself, of what that person may actually feel? And if you don't want to hang out with that person, why? Why is it so weird to fully express yourself?
MikeI can answer that.
PhillipWhat's the unknown?
MikeI can answer that like the one question, but it may cancel out the podcast. Okay, no, I don't know, I'm just talking shit, but I think it's coming from and I think my hunch is that a lot of our things come from. Problems come from we don't know who we are or what we're about. So that's why we're kind of like floating around, okay, undecidedly Okay, like flip-flopping from thing to thing because we actually haven't decided who we want to be and how we want to live okay.
EldarSo we're going back to your theory again that you haven't chosen a side of the good. Let's just say, right in your case, uh, and you're just kind of teetering back and forth because think, if you think about it, his thoughts are in his head.
MikeRight, he'll tell you he's. The fight is should I go see her, should I not go sear? And he gives himself reasons for the either side and but obviously the stronger side always. Well, no, I don't want to see her you know, so what I?
Eldarmean so? No, yeah, but you know what I'm actually have to disagree with you, mike. Okay, I actually think that I, for the reason of why he still wants to lighten the fall like he says, right the rejection. After I don't, I clearly don't want to hang out with them. Yeah, reaching out of why he still wants to lighten the fall like he says, right the rejection.
PhillipAfter. I don't I clearly don't want to hang out with them. Yeah, they're reaching out to me and they're saying hey, I want to do this. I'm saying hey. I can't do this, but do you want to do this? Why am I trying?
Eldarto lighten the fall in this scenario. Here's why that he's indebted to someone else for something, or he hasn't been such a good person to that person.
PhillipTherefore, he feels a level of guilt but it doesn't have to be um to that person specifically. I can just be indebted to like maybe not treating people overall um properly or myself, or myself, yeah it could be that, so it's coming from a place of guilt overall.
EldarOverall, I think there's some kind of level of guilt I think that he's indebted for and that he has to repay this guilt by trying to then soften the blow and still make things right.
PhillipSo I'm not coming from a place of experienced life, even-even one for one. I'm always operating at a negative two and it's like okay, in order for me to get to even zero if I lighten the blow then maybe things are going to be more fair.
MikeYeah, I agree, but I think it's also still tied to what I was saying.
EldarNo, you know what I do think it's tied, but I think that you're operating on a level 10 versus what this is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, I think that, ultimately, I think that we definitely should be congruent in our thoughts and our patterns and our thinking and the good side, the ethical side, the morality and all this other stuff, but a lot of the human, the human, the human condition and all the things that are actually, uh, playing in the background like attachments, guilt, right, fears, you know, and people pleasing and all this other stuff, that's, that's in the background. That's working. Right, because he still wants something out of this person, right? Sometimes, yeah, he gets something. Sometimes he feels like he got in. Sometimes and the other person, however right might have gotten lesser of him, wants a little bit more of him. He feels that they want a little bit more of him and I don't want it. He doesn't want it. Yeah, but he knows that like, hey, like I gotta give something back. Yeah, like a little bit, you know.
MikeSo let's do a lunch but it's also like, yeah, it's also not setting probably the terms of engagement for yourself, no, no, for sure for yourself. And then not being able to explain that to the person I'm not interested in any relationship. I just want to have sex once a month with you, yeah, or once a year with you, that's it. I'm gonna call you. Don't, don't plan anything else with me, like because we're scared well again to speak like that well, well, yes, number one, we're scared to speak like that.
EldarNumber two we don't actually believe that, if we do express ourselves in that matter we're gonna get. We're gonna get actually what we want to eat the cake and eat it too, a hundred percent, like you're not gonna say to a girl yo like, actually, bro, I'm just gonna stick my dick in you once a month and I'm just gonna send you home and there's gonna be nothing to it are you okay with this?
Eldarlike, like in your head you you're like wait, that's actually going to work. No, it's probably not going to work. However, I personally think that for some people it will work. I'm not necessarily thinking that's a healthy thing. No, ultimately.
MikeBut that statement in itself is also like you, kind of again not confident about who you are, where you want to be, where you want to be, because once a month you want to be this person yeah, and then person yeah. And then you say I'm looking for love, for example yeah, right, like just to give a disparity yeah. It all comes back to like you haven't decided in life what kind of life you want to live.
PhillipThis is true, but I don't think, I don't think that that person, which is me, is even ready to make that decision.
EldarI agree, no, I agree yeah but you're still teetering between, because, at the end of the day, if we examine the relationship that you're talking about, right, yeah, that person is looking for something very specific and she's almost grooming you to get you there.
PhillipWell, I know, I know very, very clearly now like I'm not even close to going down that route. I'm not, I'm not vulnerable to go down that route at all, because I know myself more than I did would be.
MikeGo down which route?
PhillipRelationship route Going down a relationship route with somebody who I know that I clearly don't have anything chemistry-wise, value-wise, anything really connected with. The only thing connected is the number of years. I've done that with my friends also, where I would always say to myself like okay, I've known them since preschool, I've known them since kindergarten.
PhillipI've known them for 20 years and I equate, say to myself okay, I've known them since preschool, I've known them since kindergarten, I've known them for 20 years. And I equate that to some weird type of foundation that I have to honor and I'm like wait, shouldn't I just be constantly thinking, wait, where is this person at right now? What have they been doing? What are their values right?
Eldarnow, maybe I don't even know them anymore.
PhillipYeah, exactly who are they. So it's like I had somebody come over that I've dated before, like I'd say in the last year Booty call. Well, she came over with a friend who was weird and I was talking to her and she was talking to me and I totally felt like I didn't know them at all. Wow, and it was weird. It was weird. It was weird. She hit me up out of the blue and she was with a friend and they came over. We had a drink and it was just like very informal. They started getting naked. Yeah, well, I wish right, they didn't you didn't offer the fucking shots.
EldarYou should have offered more shots.
PhillipI had a bottle and her friend was drinking the bottle out of the bottle. I think, I poured a drink like she didn't have anything.
PhillipYeah, I think she was smoking, I think she was high, yeah,
Navigating Intimacy and Expectations
Phillipanyway. So we were talking, uh, you know, just a bunch of nonsense, just nothing like relevant. But I was watching her talk and I was like, wait, who is this? I said I was saying who is this? But then also, at the same time, I remember her being exactly who she was from like a person standpoint, as she was like when I knew her 2015. So what was that Eight, nine years ago? So I was saying to myself, wait, little to no growth.
PhillipAs, like a person, I see same type of mannerism, same type of thing. But also then, the way she was talking, I didn't know her. Yeah, so when, in one breath, I was like, I felt like I was like um set in time, there was like pause in a movie, I think that person is still there, still has the same characteristics, same type of mindset on certain type of like probably big issues that, like, we disagreed upon, like integrity values, the things that would really connect you in a relationship. But then also she grew like these new set of values about, like she was even more materialistic, more about status and more about money and things in the way she was talking. I was like she grew in such a way in a new route and she also had the old route.
PhillipI don't know, maybe I'm not describing it right, but I just felt like I really didn't know this person and I was like I can't believe I dated somebody like this and why did I allow myself to do this? So I'm saying to myself I got fixated on one thing. I remember I got fixated. I was in the Baylor Country Club caddy yard. I remember I got fixated. We were, I was, I was in the Baylor country club caddy yard. I remember this I was on Facebook. Facebook was big at the time and there was like a messenger so we go back and forth in your messaging. And I remember she posted a picture and it was a picture of a black New York city townhome. It was a black building. And I was like I allowed somebody that posted something about a building that I liked and I liked the look of, and I allowed that thing to make the connection and be like yo, that's like really cool.
PhillipI like that. You think that that's a really cool building? I also think it's a cool building. Also, do you understand like the level of like surface level nonsense that allowed us to? Not? You still remember this. Oh, I remember vividly because I remember seeing that she posted it. Yeah, and I remember, like yo, like who posted this? Like that's a cool fucking building. I was like yo, it's a girl. Oh, my God, I fucking know the girl. So I hit her up, we started talking. She was like yo, I'm coming out to California. She came to Came back home. I talked to her parents, yeah, okay, and then she came out and she started living with me. Wow, this started it. That's sick, you understand. Yeah, I didn't do like my due diligence as, like a person, I allowed this to take it I picked her up from the airport and I was like yo.
PhillipI'm fucking horny. Let's fucking do this. Yeah, I did all the wrong things. Right. I just was like yo, let's let's smoke, let's drink, let's have fun, let's get naked, let's have sex. Then it's like wait, then you start to live with this person. What?
Eldarthe fuck you commit you do all this stuff.
PhillipAnd then you're like, wait, now I'm going to get to know them now. Now we're fighting, we're doing all this stuff and I'm, like the decision, saying, hey, you know what? Like I realize I don't have chemistry with this person, yeah, I'm not going to pursue a relationship with this person. But now the problem is that I'm still some part of myself saying, hey, I have to lighten the blow with somebody because I don't want them to feel a certain way.
EldarBut I like, okay, I don't want them to maybe uh really hear what I really feel, yeah, and that you know that you actually probably holding her away from starting her life.
PhillipGod damn it really. How much more whiskey. I mean, like you know what I'm saying.
EldarYeah, I don't want to put all the responsibility on me there but, yeah, no okay in this, in this, no, no Okay In this specific example.
PhillipIf let's say that she is caught up on me in this, where she does want to do something, be something more.
EldarShe's been showing little breadcrumbs here and there she's leaving the crumbs.
PhillipSo, yeah, she does want to be something more and I'm saying, hey, let's go to lunch. Maybe there is a hope there.
EldarYeah, and the thing is you keep stringing it along a little bit. You know what I mean. She gets a little bit here, a little bit there, especially when maybe you're a little bit horny, right, you sleep with her and you sound like you have a little bit of mixed signals, because especially in that act like you said, it's a very intimate act that can lead to more Attachment and stuff like that.
PhillipAnd I think the irony is is that I've had this done to me on the other end. Oh yeah, and it's the worst feeling in the world. It's the worst.
PhillipWhere I had a girl I was talking to and we went on a date and I came back and we were just laying in bed hanging out, yeah, and she was like you know, let's do something. Yeah, I was like I'm not ready to do anything. Yeah, I was like I'm not ready to do anything. Yeah, I was like I want to get to know you more. And she's like no, it's like I want to do something. I was like like I'm not ready. I never had somebody go back and forth, I swear to God. It was probably like 45 minutes or an hour and she was relentless, wow. So I did.
EldarBlocking you completely. So I did, so I gave up, so I did it. Yeah, she raped you, so I did it.
MikeMe and Fahd have similar experience.
PhillipOkay, so I did it. Okay, and she was significantly younger than me. She was very attractive, but like I didn't know myself at this time, we went on a date, we had fun, Okay, but like I was trying in, yeah, and after the first time I remember calling my boy and I was like I was like yo, what just happened. It's like yo, this girl got me to do this. I'm not attracted to her. And like I don't know like why the fuck, I did it Right, yeah, yeah. So let's say fast forward, we did whatever.
PhillipThe second time, I don't know what clicked. Something clicked and I was like yo. I see something in her and like I like her and I'm like I don't know if, because we had sex, it opened up something in me that I didn't have before. And like it opened up this feeling in me where I'm like yo, like I, really I think I'm starting to like, like her. And then I realized that like she only wanted to have sex and she didn't like me. So I'm like yo. I prematurely got to this point where I did something that I didn't want to do. I opened up to these feelings that I didn't want to have and I wasn't ready to commit to, and now she doesn't want to reciprocate them in me and she just wants to have sex with me and she doesn't want to be in a relationship with me.
Phillipbecause at then, at that point, I was like yo, let's do something. You became a clinger Yo, then I was becoming a simpy guy. Like hey let's go out. I'll take you on a date Like blah, blah, blah. She's like no, I don't want to go on a date. So you guys want to come over and hang out?
PhillipI was like you. She opened me up yeah, you felt taken advantage of, or no, no, then I actually asked her straight up and I was like yo, I have these feelings now and like what's the thing? What is this? Yeah, and she's like I forgot her exact words. But she said, like this is payback. No, she didn't say that. But she said All the girls. She admitted. But she said, um, she, she, all the girls.
PhillipShe admitted something along the lines of like um, she didn't really think about it, like she was just horny and like she just wanted it to happen and she didn't think about what was going to happen after. Okay, like oh, I think she said it was. So I think she admitted that it was selfish. Yeah, like after, because I questioned her, I was like yo, like I like you, like why are you not reciprocating to me? Like I don't. And she's like I don't want anything more than just to sleep with you. I don't. I just got out of like a really serious relationship, like six months ago with this guy and I don't want to be in a serious relationship and that one hurt me so bad because I was like once you have those feelings, they can't just go away like this yeah, there's something that opens up in you yeah and that thing, that whatever got hurt, I think, um, I don't know if that relates to the the opposite end, when you're shut off and then you have the other person but it.
PhillipWhat I think is ironic is that I felt it. I felt the pain on the other end, but then I'm also able to administer it on the other end and like, shut off, it's almost like how can you be so robotic, but you also felt the pain on the other side. Is it like? Is it so painful where you shut it off and I actually, in my mind, forget about it in those moments, does that?
Phillipmake sense what I'm saying? Yeah, you probably do. I experienced the pain that she made me feel and I might be giving it to somebody else now and I'm saying, oh, I'm doing all this growth and I'm doing all this stuff, but why am I still able to then potentially give somebody else that pain?
EldarYeah, because you're probably deprived still. You're still looking for some kind of pleasure for yourself and then you're not really considering the implications behind it. I think I'm not saying that you're a bad person.
PhillipI'm just saying that you might be, but that's bad behavior though.
EldarThat's the thing. Like it is probably bad behavior, but it's not because you're intentionally doing it. I don't think you're intentionally doing this.
KatherineYeah.
EldarBecause if you, right now, sitting down right and this new person that you're doing this to and you understood what you understood, you probably know as a person like, hey, like that's pretty fucked up and I shouldn't be doing this, like you would stop it. You know what I mean. Yeah, right, like, what's the right thing to do here with the new person? Right, it's probably to say, hey, look, the truth of the matter is I don't have those types of feelings with you and the thing that we're doing right now it just might be confusing me and you and ultimately, it's probably holding us back from actually exploring the world, other people and our own personal growth. And that's finally giving the person the blessing to like yo, you're good to go, you're good to go, and then that's growth, I think.
PhillipYeah, being totally okay with them hearing exactly what you have to say. Yeah, because there's nothing about me thinking like, oh, I'm going to lose the person because I don't have any connection to the person. That's right. It's almost like I don't want them to hear what I actually have to say.
MikeYou care about what they think about you? Yeah. Presenting an image yeah.
PhillipIt's more about the image of me and it has nothing to do with the person. That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So to me, like there's still like a self-centered element of myself that has not been cracked yet with women that's right. Specifically.
EldarYeah for sure, yeah For sure. Yeah. Well, again, you're going through this experience and you're feeling what you're feeling, and then the longer this prolongs, the more pain you're going to experience and that's ultimately going to probably, you know, give you the, you know the, the call to action to finally do something right, which is probably cut it off, see it for what it is and move on from it and probably not ever do it again, because you know where this leads.
PhillipIt's crazy what progress like how I'm measuring progress where it's like you, you go out, you know, like I was in my maybe like early 20s, mid 20s, right and I'm going out and I'm doing these things. I'm not thinking about them, I'm just having these experiences and then you're having one night stands where I'm talking to girls and like that I'm maybe not truly like into, but just maybe physically attracted to in the moment, and then afterwards, like I'm, I'm having like, uh, intimate situations with them and I'm feeling bad. Afterwards I'm like yo, why am I feeling bad?
Phillipyeah that's weird. I'm with a girl that other people think you're pretty. I think you're pretty, yeah, right, yeah, it's like a win-win for like my ego, that's right. And like me in the moment, yeah. But afterwards I don't feel good. That's right, that's that fucked me up. Yeah, because I was. I was
Exploring Real Connections and Love
Phillipfucked up.
PhillipI'm doing like partying everything, everything right, having fun, and I'm like, wait, is it the partying that's fucking me up or is it like because it's not the, because I wasn't convinced that a pretty girl can make me feel that way, but then I was underestimating, like connecting with a person, truly connecting. So I'm like, okay, if we're laughing, we're having fun, you're drinking, like everything's good. Just, I'm like, okay, if we're laughing, we're having fun, you're drinking, everything's good. Just think about it. If you go out to a club, you're going out to a bar, you're going to a concert, you can't really hear the person, you're not really connecting. If you're just going based off of look and smell and very primitive, animalistic things, I don't understand what I was expecting from a connection. I don't understand what I was expecting from a connection.
PhillipSo I should expect, when I wake up in the morning, I was thinking what we had a deeper connection, because if I'm coming from a place, if I'm upset or I feel bad, did I think that we had a real connection? Because I don't even know what I'm thinking now is my definition of what a real connection was? I didn't even explore it and I didn't know how to explore it. Yeah, you pointed out to me, or we were talking. Like when I go out and I'm talking to somebody, it's like okay, hi, what's your favorite movie? Oh, did you see this? Are you watching this type of show? Blah, blah, blah.
PhillipAnd we're talking about all these like superficial things that have nothing to do with anything. And then we had an example of somebody came here on a podcast, right, and and we're, we're, we're opening them up and we're, you know, subjecting them to what we're talking about. And I realized, like, in an hour or two, like wait, if you actually start to talk to somebody about real topics that actually matter, that are about, you know, talking about truth and integrity and values and how you perceive the world, if I brought these things up, I would have a better sense of, like, what type of real connection we had. I'm bypassing all of this.
PhillipYes, I'm going based off of clothes smell good smell yeah and like very, super superficial things and I'm feeling bad after. Yeah, um, and now?
Eldarbut? But you also have to give yourself props, in the sense that not not yourself, but almost the divine, because you're born in such a way, or you were made in such a way, that if there's cognitive dissonance in your you know, your thinking and you're doing, it will be shown. And it's going to be shown in the in the pain way, like where, like afterwards, afterwards, yeah, where it's like, hey, I committed a crime against myself here, yeah, right but I didn't know what it was that's right, but it was still there.
EldarThink about about that. Right. And now you're reflecting on it. When you're older You're like yo, wait a second. That's wrong. If you go and you go off of finally meet a girl where you actually have a connection and you go and proceed to have make love with her or have sex with her, you will see, you will not have that experience afterwards. It will see, you will not have that experience afterwards. It's impossible. Yeah, it's crazy, you understand. And that is where the solidification happens, where, if you find that you can't.
PhillipThat's it. This is the ultimate one. You're done. Yeah, everybody like, um, like when you ask them like, oh, have you ever been in love? And then I would go back and like sometimes I would scratch my head like maybe, like five years ago, and I'd be like, oh, maybe I was and like I've said, I love you sometimes, like, maybe, like, maybe I thought I did, yeah, but like I 100% wasn't Never loved anybody, like ever. Because not only now do I know that like I didn't treat myself like that I wasn't coming from a place of love Like at the very most.
EldarLet alone give all that to the person yeah, to give that other.
PhillipSo I'm like maybe at the very most. I maybe like certain things about the other person.
EldarIt's all surface level, but all surf, all surface level. Well, listen, that's. It's good that you say that out loud, especially you know yeah, I think a lot of people that if they do hear it, it's it's. It's honest on your end. Yeah, and I think a lot of people need to be more, a little bit more, honest with themselves and stop hiding behind the word love and care and all this other bullshit that they say.
PhillipThe truth of the matter is a lot of people are just in a very selfish relationships where they're just out for themselves yeah, I think it's tough too because like, like, as I get older, like I feel good and like I have energy, and like the energy can be sexual energy a lot, right. So when you you're just a firecracker, yeah, like sometimes you want to go out and you want to really fuck shit up Rage. Rage.
PhillipAnd then it's like wait, now that I know what I know, now I can go down that route and I can go against it and I can wake up in the morning and feel bad right, and be an idiot option that I was talking to you about, where, if there are people out there where maybe they aren't ready to be in a relationship but they're also maybe you know, maybe it's mischievous, devious or maybe just horny or sexual and they don't want anything else more, if you can have that kind of like consensual, like understanding, and actually communicate that I think that's probably the healthiest thing you can do before you actually are ready for love.
EldarI think so, I agree with this and I always promote this. Like if two consensual adults both tell each other like, hey, let's just, you know, join our nerve endings together and enjoy the pleasure experience of fireworks. Good, yes, but that's not where it ends, right, we're human. There's always drama. No, but that's not where it ends. Right, we're human, there's always drama. No, not that there's always
Choosing Sides and Consistency in Self
Eldardrama. What I'm saying is that, right, you still have to live your life. Yeah, and life does not only revolves around your fucking hard dick and her wet pussy. You know what I mean. Like it revolves about problem solving, it revolves about everything. There's so much that's going on and all those dynamics matter. You know what I mean. Rarely do you see people just saying you know what, let's get together, fuck and go our separate ways.
PhillipNo, that's what I'm saying, it doesn't exist. That's what I'm saying, even if you do set those boundaries which I think it's nice to set the boundaries when you do separate and you're like, oh wow, I'm in the clear or or like they're only clear. Yeah, there's to me.
PhillipThere's always something that comes up where it's like hey, wait, now the person's texting more, maybe I'm calling more they might want it more than you do, for example, somebody always wants it more than the other person something and then somebody doesn't want it as much as the other person.
PhillipSo there's always that, the very least there's that right. Then there's like, wait, what? Like, is there something else in the picture? There's somebody. That's right. Were you dating somebody? You dating somebody else. You weren't honest with me? Yeah. Were you not honest with your feelings? Like, did you actually want more from the beginning?
EldarYeah, did you not want to do this at all In that whole conundrum. That's why I think that ultimately, sure, if you're adults and try it out, whatever, it's up to you and there's no, ultimately I think, at the end of the day, I think that the path to victory when it comes to this stuff like I think it goes back to what Mike is saying is that I think you need to choose a side. Yeah, you need to choose a side. Where are you at right? Are you having fun? Part of having fun just fucking will come with little complications.
PhillipAnd. I have to be okay with that Correct, because I think the mindset that I have when I'm having fun is like I'm having fun and because there's no love, I shouldn't feel any type of turmoil and I have to be okay with or expect feeling some kind of animosity or turmoil, even more so than probably pursuing love, because it's more unorthodox and it's kind of more unnatural, correct?
MikeI was thinking let me know what you guys think about it but the relation between cognitive dissonance and what he just said, and also the recollection of the soul.
EldarYou said a lot of things, mike, come on help us here. Sure, I'm just a horny idiot. Yeah he's just a horny idiot. I need layman terms.
MikeYeah, give us layman terms.
EldarMike, I need a fucking.
MikeWikipedia I got you I'm giving the college enlistment, yeah, the thing is.
EldarYou know this is not fair. You know what I mean. Me and Philip were just talking about surface level shit and Mike's over there pondering very deep stuff. And he's just like yo. How about cognitive dissonance and fucking recollection of the soul, like what, yeah, he's?
Phillipa fucking horny philosopher, yeah horny philosopher.
MikeYou're trying to own us over here yo Explain what you mean, I will. How did? You get to that point I will tell you Okay, because what Phil was saying he's like yo, I like having sex with her Okay.
EldarRight.
MikeWho he likes having sex. He wants to have that sex, but it's never just like that. There's always that guilt attached. That's right, okay. So to me the guilt is down, aka recollection of the soul that what you're doing is wrong on the level of like. Ultimately, as people, that's not what we want.
KatherineWe crave actual love, a relationship, a love relationship.
MikeYeah, so that's why I was saying the cognitive dissonance is where, on one side of it is you act a certain way, but because your soul is there, it still gives you these signals that you a lot of times can't hear. Yeah, and that's the recollection of the soul.
EldarI completely understand that's good, so does that a question or a?
Mikestatement or that was a question. If you guys think that's how it works and that's why you know what I actually, I agree with you.
EldarI think it does the way you pointed it out. It works exactly like that.
PhillipYeah, I agree I. I don't think you understand what he's saying what did he say?
EldarWait so okay.
PhillipSo where I'm going is then, like, if you do agree with two consensual adults going that route, you're basically saying like hey, you're both, I'm okay with two idiots agreeing to be idiots.
EldarThat's right. Okay, yes, do I have it? You got it? Okay, 100%, good, 100%, good, 100%. Because ultimately his soul knows so when he busts that nut and he wants to, run away he doesn't want to have anything to do with her afterwards. Because you have a guilt, I'm just a squirrel.
MikeYou have that guilt that's associated with that act. Yeah, because you know you violated yourself. Yeah, and your true is probably potential highest form of who you can be, what you can achieve, especially if you know that Going around having sex like that is going to make you feel a certain type of way You're going to feel like every time again. It's that mental suicide. It's a mental kind of suicide.
EldarIt's a mental suicide yeah.
MikeYou're killing off that identity of like what you can do.
EldarSo then, what do you suggest? Pick a side.
Mikeyou always say you always got to pick a side, bro. You always got to pick a side and you got to stick to it.
EldarYou see, like something tells me that you're prematurely telling people to pick a side, well, I'm sharing.
MikeWhat I'm going through right now, in this moment, is that I'm learning how to pick a side in all the things that I do. Oh, right, like now, I'm learning how to pick a side with my friends, yeah, with my parents, yeah With new people that I meet With the girls With the girls, right yeah, so that's what I'm going through I'm learning how to not it's, it's more so keep the awareness of it all the time, but keeping the consistency, like I can be myself with you guys.
MikeYeah, and now I'm going out. Okay, where else can I insert who I truly am, who I truly want to be in those other areas? You know where? I didn't have that before or I never brought awareness to it. Now I'm going to the basketball and I'm treating it totally different. Yeah, why? Because I want to make sure that the person who goes I never brought awareness to it. Now I'm going to the basketball and I'm treating it totally different.
MikeWhy? Because I want to make sure that the person who goes to play basketball is the person who's here in Philosophy Club when I go to lunch. It's not sound like a lot, but I also want to be that same person the way I'm eating and the way I'm focusing on whatever I'm doing. I'd like to be able to bring that. So that's why I'm saying what I'm saying, because that's what's happening with me. I'm trying to bridge the gap. I guess. Full circle Consistency, consistency Of character, of character, yeah.
EldarAnd all the things.
MikeBy choosing a side, by choosing a side and then also being aware of where you need to choose a side, because, again, a lot of times we're deceived about oh yeah, I feel like I'm acting natural here, I feel like I'm doing things right, but because of our own habits and attachments, a lot of times we don't see that moment, do you feel like?
Eldarsometimes, you're acting not like organically, like you almost have to force it or try hard. Yeah, I'm asking, mike.
MikeIn the new interactions.
EldarYeah, you're saying like hey, hey, look, I figured out how to be myself around my friends, right? But then if you go into your family circle or somebody else or some other friend circles, right, are you trying to force?
Mikethe natural this. No, I don't think it's forced. I think it's bringing the awareness to it, okay, so I'm trying to slow down so I could pay attention to my own self and my own wrong thinking, you know. So it's definitely an effort, but it's not.
EldarI don't know if it's forced.
MikeI guess the word forced sounds like I'm pretending, but it's not pretending, it's an actual effort. There's like a force there that it has, but I don't know if it's forced. All right, philip, yeah.
EldarI don't know, maybe you can help me understand.
PhillipYou understand my question? Yeah, because if I said that to myself and I was like okay, what I'm doing is actually not what my soul wants, but my boner or my dick wants it, yeah.
PhillipSo it's like wait, I have to separate my human from my soul. Yeah, and as I'm doing, this is not an overnight process. No, I the overwhelming urge, okay, that you're gonna have to fight is. I think what you're referring to is the inorganic thing. It's like I'm gonna go against my nature right in that moment, yeah, which is like I do want to actually have sex with them. I want that, my human wants it. But, deep down the thing, whatever that shut off is maybe saying, okay, being in love is actually what you want and that's why you feel guilty. So, then, what I'm going to have to do, in that you can raise awareness to it, but I think there are going to be lapses of time where you're not being true to like whatever you are in that moment.
EldarYeah for sure. However, I think that you might have the wrong perception of what you're experiencing in the moment, of having a boner Meaning if you're like, okay, I'm horny, this is nice, I want to get this out of the way, this feels good, or whatever. You don't understand how horny you can get if you built a deeper connection.
PhillipSo I'm being prematurely impulsive.
EldarYes, Versus. You can have 10x, for example, if you develop the connection with whoever you are with right. You were yourself. They accepted you for who you are. Imagine the fucking, the fireworks there, Like it's crazy.
PhillipWhere does that belief come from?
EldarWell, no, I think, ultimately, that you know, um, If you do the right thing, if you follow the truth, I think that we ought to be rewarded by the design of seeking ultimate pleasure in our lives, which is true happiness everywhere. And if it's connecting with women right, since we're male is the thing. You would have crazy orgasms, crazy things with them, because it's the highest peak of it all.
PhillipSo what does that look like for somebody like where, the way that I'm describing it, where you're at the point where you can decipher and understand, okay, I have a real connection with this person, or I don't. And I can be with that person one time and automatically know, like, they're not for me, I'm not going to lead them on, I'm not going to prolong it, and I'm somebody that's saying, okay, I'm not necessarily looking for love. Deep down my soul is saying, okay, you need it. And there's like, there's that, that guilt that comes about it. So it's like, okay, where do you like what? Is it a mindset or just some type of curiosity that goes about saying like, okay, if I do have the belief that I can have 10 X more pleasure and more connection, if I do actually find somebody that I have a real connection with and I can be myself, is like, I guess, what's the thought process that goes from where I'm at, like where that thought process is Well, I think that you have to ask questions around what does that look like?
Eldarright? Because maybe you probably didn't right, you probably got stuck. Maybe a little bit of like okay, my dick gets hard. She sucks my dick. It feels good, I bust a nut and we move on.
Exploring Self-Reflection and Relationship Dynamics
EldarI'm like an animal. Yeah, except that you have to kick her out of your house because you don't want to have anything to do with her after she did what you wanted her to do.
PhillipYeah, that's very true, that's true, that's where I'm at right now.
EldarIt's not a sustainable thing, right? Versus like falling in love and having a long-term relationships, right? She'll do the same thing. It's just that she doesn't have to leave. You don't have to put quote unquote, put up with her. She'll suck your dick all the time because she's really into you and you get exactly what you want out of it all the time, because you guys are both mutually are accepting, loving and caring and also horny for one another. You know, um, and there's, there's that synchronicity versus there isn't, where, like yo, I just gotta bust a nut and kick her out. So then is it?
Philliplike analyzing myself and saying like, hey, is there something in me that thinks I'm not worthy of love? Is that like a valid question.
EldarOh, that's a valid question. I do think so. Yeah, yeah, it's not that, maybe not worthy. So like you don't think about it even, and because you don't think about it, you don't ponder about it enough, it'll never come your way, right? You always got a little stuck on, like the, like you said, material stuff or surface level stuff, yeah, and that's why pleasure is like immediate, pleasure is like busting a nut.
EldarIt's like it's the best thing that you're looking forward to, and then you don't know what to do with the continuation. You just want to kick her out of the house like yo, I fucking feel bad, get her out of here, I don't want to have anything to do with her, I don't want to have any attachment, strings attached and stuff like that. Because you're feeling internally guilty. And that's what Mike said, that the soul is feeling guilty. Your soul, right, feels this because internally, the soul knows what's the true experience should be, or a relationship should be, and it's not getting that. It's very deprived. So after you bust a nut, you always have the same. The soul is like knocking on your door, like, yeah, that's not what I want, that's not what I want. I want something deeper, I want something more meaningful and I want something lasting, because you're deprived.
PhillipYeah, so like if I just like play with myself, I don't feel that when another person is involved, because the element of guilt comes about of like not being yourself in front of another person. There's like a reflection on it.
EldarWell, yeah, because I think when another person is involved, there's an exchange of goods or services. You know what I mean. Element, when you jerk yourself off, there's no real conversation of that.
PhillipYeah, like I'm signing myself off on my own goods and services, I'm not going to violate myself in that moment.
EldarNo, and that's why anybody who jerks themselves off, they're the best at jerking themselves off. Yes, you know what I mean. They know exactly how much pleasure to give, at what time and when and how, and all this other stuff which is good for you. Yeah, with a woman it's a completely different situation, right, it's almost like hey, can you jerk me off this way? It's like a pact. It's like a pact, it's like yo, I'll do this, you do this, and it's like an exchange and it's never kind of like.
PhillipYou almost feel like it's a fair exchange, so you never get what you want yeah, so would you say like, based on what I'm describing, I'm not curious enough to ask myself the right questions.
EldarYeah, oh, you're scared.
PhillipWhy would somebody be scared To not know?
EldarYou might have committed a lot of wrongdoing.
PhillipYou might have wronged many people. So would that come back to thinking that I actually don't deserve it, or I don't believe that I deserve it.
MikeIt could yeah.
EldarUnless, of course, you acknowledge why would?
Phillipyou have a lack of curiosity for asking yourself.
EldarAbout love, yeah, why don't? You deserve something bigger and greater. Yeah, do you think that?
MikeLove from another person or True love. Yeah, true love Like a relationship, yeah.
PhillipTo me, you'd have to be coming from a place of brokenness, right Weakness. To me, you'd have to be coming from a place of brokenness, weakness, where you did something. You're not your full self and I can say 100% that I'm discovering more of myself, but I wouldn't say I would describe myself. If somebody asked me, I wouldn't say I'm like, self-actualized, like I understand myself fully type person. If I'm 38 and I'm starting to understand myself more than I ever did, but coming from a place of not knowing myself at all, I don't think I'd say much.
PhillipSo what I'm saying is that, like that person who is not maybe willing to have a relationship now, they have to be saying at some level, I'm coming from a place of weakness, whether I did something wrong or I don't feel like I deserve it. It's preventing me from asking myself and getting curious as to like, why don't I have this? Because if you don't feel like you deserve it, I don't even think you deserve to like. Feel like you deserve to ask the question as to why. Wow, you know what I'm saying. You're lower than low. You know what I'm saying.
PhillipI do why because, like wow, you know what I'm saying. You're lower than low, like. You know what I'm saying, like I do.
EldarIf you don't feel like you're able to ask the question, yeah, like um, no, but you're going towards it right, like because, like you're saying like hey, look, look, I'm about to like go into this situation, ship that you're going into and it's not going to ultimately make you feel good, you're going to start raising questions more and more. You're getting there slowly, yeah why is?
Eldarthis, why is this, why is that? And then you're like this is suffering, like I don't feel good about this, like how should I change this? Because ultimately, you want to have some kind of a connection, but you also want that sex. I get it. Yeah, I think that's what everybody's after, right, the best case scenario. But because you haven't suffered enough, you haven't asked enough good questions yeah.
Phillipso I think like it's like trying to reverse engineer it from the top, the top, top being like, okay, you're in a loving relationship and where you're at now. So it's like, okay, that person's at the top, they're in a loving relationship and where I'm at now. I'm trying to punch through the wet paper bag and figure out why I'm not asking the questions. But if you reverse engineer it from the top, there has to be like the actionable steps of like, like what it takes to actually get there. I'm at the point where I was at I could tell you it.
EldarYeah, you can tell me like actionable steps I could tell you actionable steps right now to take with this specific situation ship that you have in order for you to completely change your mindset. What this yeah, so, mike, sorry, what's this?
Mikeyeah, I was just thinking. The way he asked the question, you know, is the reason he's not curious about it because there's a, there's a prerequisite which you have to apply to yourself. What's that right the self-love to apply to yourself? What's that Right, the self-love, yeah. So if you don't have that, how can you Extend?
Eldarit.
MikeHow can you think about that? And then I, obviously I thought about it how it relates to my thing. Yeah, right, and I'm not sure, like, what level of self-love he has or I have, like has, or I have, like I don't know if it's like a measurable thing, but for me, right, the whole situation, how I kind of like discovered love right for another person yeah, obviously I was this broken person, but a broken simp, a broken simp, yeah, yeah, but I got to experience something that I thought was magical. Yeah, right, and it was for me at the time where I was, it was definitely magical, but in retrospect, you know, weak sauce, weak sauce, yeah, so I was like, well then, I don't know how did that happen for me? That kind of landed in my lap, obviously, but, like, and I didn't have self-love, but what actually?
Mikelanded what actually ended Well yeah, yeah, yeah, but that was the thing that kept me always curious about it and wanting to find out, yeah, how to get that feeling back yeah, where did?
Phillipwhere did it come? Where's the curiosity come from?
Mikebecause you felt it before well, part of it is, yeah, like I experienced that you know how do you think that?
Philliphow do you think that you felt it though you had to. You had to have some part of yourself be open, right. Yeah, you had to have some part of yourself be open. Right, you had to have some part of yourself be open, and you had to have some.
MikeYeah, you had to be coming from some place of like self love where you can actually recognize that right well, yeah, that's the question that I'm asking because, like, based on my statement I made to you, I'm not sure you know, but I guess we can wait for um elder to come back. Maybe he can help us to, you know, comb through these uh weeds. Yeah, we don't know shit. Yeah, I, um, we're a bunch of grown grown weeds. Maybe, like that's why I said, maybe you, you we're in different levels of love, self-love, but I don't know if that's like a real thing, like uh like you, either have it or you don't I, yeah, I don't know if it's like you have it or you don't, or it's like there's levels to it.
MikeRight, I would, I think there's. I think there's levels. Yeah, I think there's levels so as well, because, like the love that I experienced with that person, that was like a low level, right one-sided. So then I would assume probably that you know there's there's levels to it, based on where we are leveled up in our own personal life. Yeah, although we're asking if there's levels, is there levels to like self-love?
Philliplike you either have self, either have self-love, or you don't. Or are they like their levels where, like mike is saying that he experienced love before right, and I'm saying, if he experienced love and I haven't, then there has to be something about him that's open, that you know he's able to feel it and have it, you know, reciprocated and give to the other person. So do you either have it or you don't? Or are there levels to like, get to that point where, like you can have the foundation and like Well, I think a lot of stuff like this is fleeting.
EldarYeah, you know, yeah, you're going to have it one day, right Like Mike's practicing self-love right now, for example, for himself. Yeah, and then certain things attachments and problems in life or whatever can take that away, or you're no longer focused on that. You focus on something else. So, it's a constant, almost like a roller coaster.
PhillipSo is that a reflection of the totality of who you are and the foundation that you're building when, like, yeah, maybe he did actually feel that love, but it was fleeting because he didn't have all the other things lined up to it.
EldarYeah, there was an aspect of Mike in that moment that worked for love. That worked for love and he experienced it, felt it for that moment. Yes, and as soon as Mike right, as soon as that love right that he had right Because love is, I mean we can talk about this right, but I think love is so vast and big that it is impossible. I mean it's possible, but it's very difficult to be able to capture and hold it for very long periods of time, because what it requires from us, that's right, that's right, it's.
EldarYou know the standard of love. To be in love sustainably for very long periods of time. Yeah, you have to be godly, fuck it, I'll say it. Yeah, okay, godly. What this means is really understanding the truth, right Virtues, living by them consistently for very long periods of time, to be able to invite love into your life sustainably. And I don't think Mike, in that form at least, was that in order to keep it and hold it and protect it and keep inviting it into his life.
EldarYeah, I had no clue. He definitely maybe felt it. I think a lot of people feel it right. A lot of times you hear like yo, I'm so in love. Like you know what I mean. Like, and it's one-sided love. The other person doesn't love you, you know. Like, you're like what the fuck? You know? Like what's going on here. Right, they understand one point of something very blindly and that's why they call it blind love. You know where it? It's very fleeting.
PhillipSo you would say like to, to be in a relationship. Have you felt there's been times where like it like um, like you, you're growing like apart from it and then you have to come back into it. So, like that, that comes down to like not only um, you and the connection that you have with yourself, it's uh, uh, looking at it as, like the other person is an individual, they have their own relationship to love and what it is for them, and then there's two people that are coming together and that's the relationship.
EldarYeah.
PhillipIt's almost like three things are involved. It's like the individual, the individual, then the relationship that you create, which is a together thing, Right? So like you're managing a lot more things, A lot Right, yeah, right.
Eldarso, like you're managing a lot more things a lot right, yeah. Your understanding of life, your understanding of everything, a lot of all this shit, yeah, there's so many things to juggle.
Eldaryeah, absolutely yeah because, like, I'm thinking about it in that sense of like okay, and obviously, and obviously, philip, I think that the how to describe love, I think it's, it's the story that is written by both people, with truth behind it yeah, like truth where both people are on the same page about what, what's actually true, yeah, right, and they're sharing that experience and they're both in the greens of it and they're like yo, like I believe this, yeah, I believe this, and we're manifesting that in reality, but as soon as we don't, we see what happens.
Navigating Love and Self-Discovery
EldarPhillip
but let's say, if that person like, let's say, you start like that, right? Yeah, let's say that that person then becomes closed off. Right, let's say, I get to that point and then I become closed off, yeah.
EldarThen why the thing is. My question would be why? Why would somebody go from this to this? There has to be a turning point. And if the turning point was you having no ability to communicate, to listen to you know, be the proponent of truth, and standing behind you know your word, standing on your truth and stuff like that, these are all the things that lead you to going. Then, oh, one day I'm in love, one day I'm not like what the fuck happened okay, so let's.
PhillipSo I guess, like, I guess what I'm thinking about is like somebody that's okay, somebody that has the ability to love. Right, that's one okay, one like ability, I guess we can call it. But then like, let's say somebody like, let's say, right now, I, right now, in this moment, I have the ability to love. But let's say, I'm still learning about who I am and I'm still figuring out like, okay, career and like finances and, like you know, emotional intelligence and all this stuff. Can you, in one token, have a heart open to love and being in a loving relationship and also, on the other end of it, be figuring out those other things about like 100%?
PhillipAbsolutely I guess that person in this example, which is me they're putting maybe too much of weight on things like a career or like emotions and things that like could be transformed in love. So maybe am I, in this example, underestimating the power of love and like what it can do?
EldarAre you kidding me? Of course I am, of course, yeah, it's a completely transformative experience. When it comes to you, your values, your beliefs, your career choices, everything, how much you want to make, where you want to live, how you want to live that's all that shit is irrelevant, bro. The most important thing I personally think you know, and that's my thoughts, is that love is number one. Everything else is fucking irrelevant. Okay so, career and all this other bullshit this is fucking nonsense, bro. Okay, if you have the ability to live in love, you'll figure out how to fucking eat.
PhillipSo what's the actionable steps for a poor chap like me to open up their heart?
EldarWell, number one, I think that you have to close some of the loose ends that you do have, and I think that you owe this girl that me and you both know the name of a conversation a serious one, right? Not a Philip fucking on 10 cups of coffee and raging, wanting to go out on Friday night and horny as fuck. You know what I mean. You probably have to jerk your dick for a couple of times before you have this conversation. Yeah, six times in a row. You know what I mean, but yeah, I think that conversation needs to be had. You know what I mean, but yeah, I think that conversation needs to be had. You know what I mean. Where you sit down and say, hey look, this is where I'm at and this is what I wish for you and this is what I wish for myself. And if that conversation can be had, be careful as I say this, because if the individual understands you, you might actually fall in love.
PhillipNo, come, because if the individual understands you, you might actually fall in love. No, come on, I don't want this. So there you go, okay, but wait, there you go. But wait, let's say they don't hit me back. Then do I still have to have the conversation with them or no? What do you mean? Hit you back? Like, let's say, I'm going to go to the city, right, like I have the open-ended invitation, nonsense they, I'm going to go to the city, right, like I have like the open-ended invitation, nonsense. They don't show up and like they don't hit me up and it's like a month or two goes down the line like I don't hear anything from them. Do I still have to have the conversation with them at that point when?
Eldarthey hit me back. No, no, no, no, I don't think you have to, you know, force the situation, but if there is an open the conversation is due, that's fair, that's due, that's fair. You know what I mean and I think, I think that's part of your growth. Yeah, and I obviously wish that for you because you know you obviously entangled in stuff that you're again Entanglements, entanglements that you actually don't appreciate or don't really like. No, you know what I mean does happen.
PhillipI do grow some balls and I'm just like, hey, this is how it is. What's the next step?
EldarI think you will see what the next step is.
EldarI think that's what the interest in is, I think that the weight will go off your shoulders and you'll be free. And you'll start feeling free and stuff like that. You'll get closer to having the ability to enjoy yourself and have fun, be more so empowered as to who you are, why you you'll get closer to having the ability to enjoy yourself and have fun and and be more more so empowered as to who you are, why you are right and and the direction that you need to be going.
PhillipSo, like the conversation is something along the lines of like hey, like you know, I'm not looking for a relationship or no it's. I don't want a relationship with you. Yeah, Cause that's bad, that relationship or no it's, I don't want a relationship with you, yeah.
EldarThat's bad, because that's the truth of it. Well, no, I think that, at the end of the day, I think the conversation, if you want to have it properly, is that you have to talk about love, about relationships and stuff like that, where you stand, where she stands, and yeah, it's like, hey, if I'm going to be in a relationship, there needs to be love, and I don't think we have that.
EldarWell and that's why I think that the faster you have an open, honest conversation like this, the faster you can get on the same page. And, like I said, she might surprise you. She might be your future wife, we don't know. You know what I mean, because you might, she might have that switch where, like as soon as you say your truth and she'll be like, oh shit, I get it and she says the right stuff, you might be hooked. You might not have the choice in the matter. Oh yeah, why you say it like that, mike? No, no.
EldarLike everything's got notes, you know what I mean.
MikeCome on, you're the fuck. No, I'm saying, oh yeah, like it's 100% possible.
PhillipLA one more.
EldarYeah, and the reason why I'm saying that, philip, is because you're not used to yet to be your true self. Yeah, I get that, yeah, and I think that we're finally trying to get your ass out there, kick your fucking ass. Yeah, right To be out there in the world and be your true self and actually have conversations such as these. Yeah, I get that. Okay, you do get that.
PhillipNo, I get it.
EldarThere's no hair on your balls, huh.
PhillipNo, I get it.
Navigating Honest Communication & Personal Growth
PhillipYeah, I'm just going through my database of like have I ever been truly, truly honest? With somebody and said like hey, even when I was with somebody in a relationship, I think the irony is that, like, I didn't probably want to be in the relationship with them. So even if I did say something, my real honest would be like hey, I don't want to be in this relationship, but I want to have sex every once in a while. That would have been really honest.
PhillipNow it's like wait, I realized just having sex even if that's what I impulsively want is what I want in this moment, but ultimately, what I truly want is like to be in a loving relationship. Yeah.
EldarAnd have a lot of sex.
KatherineIs that?
Phillipsomething that you think about Like that's a question that I can ask, right, yeah, and then kind of gauge their reaction. Yeah, 100%.
EldarGod damn, 100%. Life is getting interesting. So, mike, what do you think?
Mikeinteresting times for Mr Philip yeah, it's a very interesting topic, you know, yeah.
EldarI think, putting yourself out there, especially your true self, it's almost inevitable, mike to finding something true. And again, it's almost inevitable, mike, to finding something true. And again it goes back to your topic about falling in love and wanting to fall in love. But if you present yourself out there and be true and I think the people that it lands on the proper way and they're ready for this kind of truth they will fuck with you 100%. And something really interesting and nice can really spark out of that. Mm-hmm.
EldarYou know that's something you can call lasting and love, mm-hmm, you know.
MikeYeah, yeah, absolutely. I think. That's why I'd like, I want to be able to. Well, I'm trying to focus on, yeah, having my own consistency of who I am and how I present myself, how I carry myself, you know. But with that process is going to take a lot of undoing. You know the behaviors that I'm used to. You know which is going to take the awareness and focus you know, so that I can. You know, like you go into the gym and you come in there right, I don't know and you will get out of character. How long does that affect you? For the rest of the day You're thinking about it, you're not able to focus, you're stuck on that. You may be upset with yourself or you're upset with other people, like you're carrying some kind of nonsense around, and I think you know that doesn't help. But, yeah, if you come in there and you do go out of character, then you realize and you try to improve it. So the next time it doesn't happen that kind of.
EldarWhere do you struggle right now when it comes to the bridging of this character? Where do you see actual pitfalls?
MikePersonally Big ones, small ones.
EldarWhatever it might be affecting you.
MikeThank, you, phil, definitely there's a thing with my sister. You've seen it more and more. I mean, definitely there's a thing with my sister that's like a. You see it more and more. I know that, yeah, that's not a good place In the basketball. Why, with my sister, you don't have a basketball? Oh, with my sister. Why?
EldarWhy do I do it? The biggest one? Yeah, for you, I haven't taken a stance, maybe like she was a lookout. Yeah, you know? Uh, she doesn't know me. Yeah, um, she hasn't upgraded. She hasn't upgraded. She hasn't updated her os system.
MikeYeah, I mean, I don't think it's on her, I think it's on me, I think it's more like I haven't presented. I mean, I have presented my new self, yeah, to her, or myself, who I am now, what's important to me, but I have maybe some kind of guilt or something that, like she was the lookout and I you know. So I want to take it easy on her because, like she, when I was doing stupid shit, yeah, she held me, held it down for me, yeah, so like, in a way, maybe I want to take it easy on her but it's wrong, because I'm also like stopping her from growth and like, yeah, and myself.
MikeIt's the same situation that we're talking about, philip, but yeah, yeah, you know, but obviously I'm aware of it and I'm trying to work on it. Yeah, you know, um, and try to know, introduce those conversations with her, and you know, obviously I carry myself that way, you know, but obviously not all the time. That's where it happens.
EldarThese types of conversations are hard to have and I understand that. But I'm more interested to know, like, why is it hard to understand and have them? And like if they're inherently good for you and for the people involved. Because you're talking about her growing or becoming a better sister, a better person, you moving past it. She's seeing things for what they are. Yeah, and philip's case, the same thing, right. Seeing each other for what it is, understanding where we stand, understanding what I wish for myself.
EldarI understand what I wish for you and stuff like that. But why is it so difficult to actually take the leap?
PhillipYou're valuing the old image or the current image of yourself?
MikeWell, for me it wasn't on my radar, right? Like I never actually like okay, said, okay, now this is a serious problem, right? But now that I have, like, more and more seen it, yeah, I'm more on the stance, like I don't want to force it. Yeah, the conversation, that's one, and I'd rather wait for a right moment to bring it up when we have opportunity for a conflict and to speak up. But also, yeah, and to speak up, but also another part of it is that you're waiting for receptivity, for her to be receptive, yeah, yeah. Another part of it is I don't want to teach when not asked, so, which is also reciprocation, yeah, you know, yeah, those are the two things that are holding me back. Those are in the back of my mind.
KatherineYeah, and I'm looking for.
MikeI'm paying attention and I mean, we had the opportunity to talk to her last week. There was a moment I didn't do it why? Well, I told you I messed up where.
KatherineI didn't address it.
MikeThat's right, you know and I was like I was thinking, should I come to her the next day and say, you know, obviously, with the underwear thing, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, where she was.
PhillipYou know, yeah, yeah, yeah, taking shots at you, taking shots yeah, which is silly, like you could have like easily like ripped her apart right there but I don't think that would have been like a really like a get to know each other, like a pivotal moment.
EldarWell, maybe, maybe not maybe not yourselves, but you definitely get to know the boundary that you've set to say, you stay over there and I stand over here and there's a huge gap and we're not on the same page. And through next conversation you can bridge that gap and get on the same page potentially, or at least closer to the same page.
MikeSo yeah, with her, it's that. But I don't know, maybe it, but I don't know, maybe it's wrong, but I don't know. I don't feel like there's like a I understand this is a big thing and obviously I think, but I don't know, to me, maybe I'm wrong. I mean you guys can tell me I'm not intimidated. I mean you guys can tell me I'm not intimidated by it. I guess, or it's not, it doesn't seem so big to me. Okay, that's good, you know, because like it's big to Philip. Yeah, yeah, I see. I see, Like his situation right.
EldarIt's big for him because he's never done this before.
MikeYeah, yeah, right, yeah, I mean I also don't fuck with her like that, yeah, and I don't get involved with her, yeah, you know, in the areas that she probably would like me to get involved in. So I already have like a stance on it. But when she swerves into my lane, then this I have to work on.
KatherineYeah, yeah, but generally You're still punking out.
MikeYeah, like I don't go into her lane, I don't try to. Like, you know, don't ask me, I'm not going to help you, but if she asks me I'll give her my honest opinion, I'll tell her what's the right thing to do, which happens sometimes. But yeah, I don't know, I have like a thing where I feel like, if there's a problem, bit of peace, you know, kind of belief, I guess, in myself too, and you know the ability to think and reason and talk as well about it with you guys. It gives me like a sense of peace, knowing that there's no problem out there you can't solve.
MikeYeah, obviously I don't apply that every time and I don't practice every time, but if I go into a situation where it was complicated or I did something wrong, obviously I want to learn from it. Yeah, because I've become very sensitive to pain. Yeah, good, that's good.
EldarYou ate that yawn, or what?
PhillipYeah, I mean yeah, I guess, like Having somebody there and then being in your lane, I feel the same thing. I'm in my lane, somebody else is in theirs, and it's like once they come over into yours, then it's like I come up with like some new set of rules because they contacted me. I don't have to fully be myself because I didn't reach out to them, and it's like not my true feelings, but that's doing the right thing when nobody's looking.
Mikeyeah, that's that so I think that's what we're.
PhillipI don't have to fully be myself because I didn't reach out to them. It's not my true feelings, but that's doing the right thing when nobody's looking. Yeah, that's that. So I think that's what we're talking about. For me, if you're saying that your sister's contacting you, or whoever's contacting you, and just because they're in their lane, they're coming over to yours, you're still giving them 100% of what you feel. What I'm saying is I'm trying to still lighten the blow and, even though I know deep down that, like, I don't want to spend time with them or I don't want to be with them, um, I am not willing to say exactly that and say something along the lines of like, hey, listen, um, I'm not like um, if, if I'm going to pursue something, it's going to be in a relationship where it's about love and, like you know, or at least address that which is being thrown your way, right?
EldarI just say like, hey, like, like, how do you see us? Like, what are you seeing? Yeah, and why are you seeing this? You know what I'm saying, like almost addressing it or confronting it.
PhillipYeah, Like, what like what do you?
Katherinethink that we are. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot more of an honest conversation.
EldarYou know, yeah, it's like, hey, where we stand because, like, she clearly doesn't know. You know, yeah, even though you have kind of the outlook on it, you know yeah, okay.
PhillipSo instead of like having to go like the extreme route and say like, uh, okay, i'm'm looking for like something love which may be necessarily in this moment I'm not maybe necessarily looking for like the long lasting relationship in this moment, it's just hey, hey, like what? Like I noticed, you know, ever since we hung out, you know you text me more and you wanting to do things like just like, where do you think like we are yeah.
MikeSee, the thing is, when you ask it, the way you just said it, I think that's great because you're actually putting it on them, yeah, and you open the dialogue. You're not being offensive, you just. You're just asking because you really want to know, yeah, you have a curiosity to find out what. And then, once they open up, then you can hit them over the head with like hey, well, if you want to fall in love, like why are you acting like a little babish or why are you carrying yourself this way? Yeah, you know like obviously not maybe in such a rude way, straight up front, like blunt, but you can say it deliver a, you know, a small blow yeah, um to her to kind of like, you know, remind her of, like, what the reality of things are.
MikeYeah, like if you want to be in a relationship. Why are you, you know, and we're only having sex like does that make any sense to you? Yeah, well, yeah, that's like maybe a big blow, but that's a tough one. For me it's like a low blow.
PhillipYeah, yeah. Why did you let me schmadugie? Why did?
Mikeyou let me schmadugie yeah. Yeah. All right. Do you think well?
Eldarno, actually you got it all wrong. I just want it as your dick and they're like oh okay, cool, so I don't have to feel bad about this shit.
MikeAlright, peace, I'm out of here you can tell her actually I don't want that. And then she'll be like okay, what do you want? And then you can tell her this is what I actually want, you know that's the thing, though.
PhillipWhen we get to that point in the conversation, we're saying, okay, my soul is saying deep down, this is what I want, but right now, your soul is telling you that you don't want this yeah, I don't know what I want right now.
EldarAfter you fuck them you want to run away. That tells you that. That I know.
PhillipBut before that I want
Navigating Relationships and Self-Discovery
Phillipto sleep with them.
Speaker 5Yeah, that's why you got to unload the gun before you go in there. You just want to unload the gun.
EldarThat, yeah, yeah, for sure.
MikeYou got to unload the gun before you have this conversation.
PhillipIf I unloaded the gun before I went out, I wouldn't go out, yeah.
EldarYeah, what's the point, right? Yeah, then it's over. Yeah, you wanted to go with a loaded gun, right?
PhillipEvery time yeah, now I'm a dangerous, you're a dangerous gun holder.
MikeYeah, yeah, I guess that goes to the show, that again, the undecisiveness of where you want to stand, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that inconsistency of character keeps coming back. I guess you don't have, or you don't have, or you haven't had enough conversations, or you don't have enough good reasons to go towards one or the other.
EldarSo that's why all the relationships are very surface level.
PhillipYeah, it's all about, just like you know nothing well that's what I was asking, like when you're at that point where that's all you want, and then you realize there's that other thing that's like it feels so far away, which is like, okay, you want real love, you want to have a long-lasting relationship, yeah, okay. And if you're starting to understand all those things right, like the way that you talk about all the responsibilities, about being in love, as beautiful as it is, there's a lot that goes on to it, there's another person involved, there's feelings and there's growing, it's a lot. But if you're not ready to take those responsibilities on and then you're still in primitive, animalistic form, like me, there has to be a jump like in between.
EldarBut the thing is it's not because at the end of the day, you're suffering. If you were just that and enjoying yourself, you'll stay there. The thing is you feel certain type of weight afterwards or during it or in between it. You know what I mean. It's not just you know what I mean, so like there's still feelings and emotions and stuff like that. So you're still going through a process. You know what I mean. You're trying to figure out. You're not very good at it, but you're still going through it. Well, definitely.
PhillipIt's like the level of improvement is measured over five and ten year periods. It's bad, but like I'm seeing improvement and like in five or ten years, I'm realizing, okay, like, instead of entering a relationship with somebody now, I realize after being with them one time that I don't want to enter a relationship with them.
EldarHow many years did it take me to get to the point of like being able to like come to that realization, which is wild but still like, nonetheless, give yourself credit because you're figuring it out like you're not hurting, you're not in the marriage and the dysfunctional marriage you're not. You don't have kids, right like you're, you're still single and stuff like that. So you, the world's your oyster, so it's. It all comes down to like how you want to for it to good yeah, you're free.
PhillipYou know what I mean. Like in the other regard, I just yeah. I just I feel like I'm so far away. It feels like a distance in between it, it feels very, very far away.
PhillipOkay, like I don't know if again, like, if that's like my, my values, and they're skewed of like um, I feel like, okay, I'm pursuing classes and other things and other interests to kind of spark my interest and be like, hey, philip, like maybe you like this and maybe you're passionate about this and I want to be a happy person and like enjoy my life, right. So it's like, wait until I have this, can I also be in a loving relationship? Or like what's the order? And like I guess the order that I place in myself is like before I find somebody I love, like there has to be, you know, a level of like Knowing of yourself, happiness and knowing in myself that I give myself For sure Before I get into that relationship 100%. So I'm saying that, okay, if I'm on that journey and I'm doing this, it just feels like a long time away until I get that in myself.
EldarWhy does it feel like that?
MikeIt feels long, it's instant gratification. The instant gratification crisis. We, as people, are used to getting exactly, especially in this fucking day where everything is like this Click, we're also thinking that these things should be also clicked.
EldarSo self-development is like yeah, I want Amazon Prime on this bitch.
MikeYeah, give me the Amazon Prime to fucking wisdom. Yeah, I want to Prime it Wow.
PhillipYeah, you know, you can't prime this bitch, I know wow yeah, this is my podcast topic, that's why I don't know it.
EldarYeah, yeah, I don't know well, yeah.
PhillipSo so think of, like you realize, okay, I'm have, I understand that I'm at a certain point and there's another point, there's another point where there is a relationship where two people are being totally honest with each other. Okay, you can be intimate, you get all the perks of that, plus you get to grow, you get to have a baby, you can do all these beautiful things together.
EldarRight.
PhillipAnd you don't deem beautiful right now. Not right now, okay, it can be. Okay, I understand that it can be. Yeah, that's pretty disgusting. Right now it's disgusting, and, and where I'm at now it's like, okay, I'm still open to being with somebody, just for the pure physicality of it. Then afterwards I'm finding out very, very quickly that if you don't truly connect with that person which it's almost a 99% shot, because I'm strictly connecting off of just partying and how you dress and how you smell, yeah, it's almost going to always end with, like one person's more interested than the other yeah, or both is not interested at all, and you move on. It's like what, like, what Meaningless shit.
EldarWhat type of meaningless shit am I engaging in? I should have just jerked my dick on my own.
PhillipExactly that's what I think of after. Yeah, it's like if I just sat in my bed and just did it, why do I allow myself to engage in it? There's some type of excitement. There's some type of thing telling me there's another person involved there's a different level of excitement.
EldarThey get to see you naked.
PhillipI think it's very hard to to to basically produce the type of feeling that two people make in yourself. If I'm just going to play with myself versus another person, I don't think you can duplicate that with one person. Having another person involved, it's a totally different interaction.
EldarIt's a totally different interaction Because your identity changes.
PhillipYeah, your identity changes. Yeah, your identity changes, but like, there's like, it's like, if you're like when you're, when you're playing with yourself like at least for me, like I'm imagining something else, like I'm imagining in my brain something happening, yeah, when you have another person there, I'm out of my brain and I'm fully in the moment and I'm like experiencing somebody else's body and their feelings. Yeah, like that shit's totally different. Yeah, so it's like um, that is definitely more exciting, it's more thrilling, especially when you're physically attracted to them, like it's fun. Then afterwards, the level of confusion that I have is a lot deeper, because after I'm playing with myself, I don't have confusion. I know exactly what I signed up for with this.
EldarIt's like I'm almost lying to myself into like where I got, because I don't think that you can fake intimacy. No, do you believe this?
Phillipyeah, I believe this. So like if you are going to get into an intimate situation and you're saying, even if you set the ground rules, and you're saying, hey, I don't want anything, you don't want anything, it's almost like we're signing up for the inevitable weird behavior of like we're both going to the place that the people in love are going and we're thinking we're thinking that we're not in love but we're going to go to the same place.
Phillipwhere do I get off thinking that I can do that as a person that's not in love with the other person? Like, do we think that we can manipulate life and love? That shit's weird. It is weird. You're right, I agree with you. So don't you think that there's an arrogance that goes into this?
EldarI agree with you.
PhillipYeah, there is, there is. We think that we can change the rules. That's right. It's like wait you, I think we could, I think we could do it.
KatherineBut like we don't need all the other stuff. It's like wait.
Phillipall the other stuff is the relationship it's like, and I think that I can just get like a little piece of it, like a little piece of the cheese, and then like thinking, yeah, so it's like, but I in those moments I believe that because I want it so bad, I think I want it so bad.
EldarWell, yeah, but that's again. It goes back to what mike said your soul needs this. Your soul is in line of, like yo, we really want this. We really want a genuine connection. We want something special and we want to have a hard dick as well and bust it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, and I think that's what we're striving for in our life. You know what I mean?
Phillipwe're trying to figure this shit out yeah, yeah, I guess, like it's like why do I feel like this? Like like it's not fair? You know what I mean. Like I feel the way that I feel like I want to be an animal sometimes. Yeah, so keep going. What's the problem? Yeah, but then I know where it's going to get. So I'm stuck in this little mini pinball machine of I know exactly how I'm going to feel after I fooled myself into getting into that place of like okay, I just want this.
Phillipso I know it's like the constant, like continuing, like okay, it's the perpetual cycle, sure, and then, like to Mike's point, it's like okay, deep down inside I know there should be something else, but there is something preventing me from getting to the point of like allowing myself to get there and that distance feels so big. Well, like I don't even. It's almost at times where it's like I don't even think that's like an option. It's so far away. Yeah, like I'm prioritizing other things. I'm like okay, like I want to take a class, I want to do something that I enjoy, I want to try to bring up my spirits and make me happier, maybe discover new things that I didn't know, that I liked Activities and stuff like that I'm not even thinking of. Like yo, if I met somebody, I'd almost be like yo, I'm not ready yet. It's almost like I feel like there's so much more to do that I don't even know how I would go about trying to be in an open, loving relationship. I got in like in this moment.
EldarOh, okay, so you almost feel like you shouldn't be doing this, because this would just hinder your progress or your selfish endeavors.
PhillipYeah, so I, I think it's I was. I was saying before like I think I'm placing more importance on those things, like then the love, and I was saying before I think I'm placing more importance on those things than the love, and I was saying I was asking you, the love could be transformative. It is transformative. I think I'm underestimating the power of it.
EldarThere's nothing, at least for personal experience. There's nothing better that you can do than to fall in love. In life, nothing.
Belief in True, Lasting Love
PhillipSo you don't think there's ever a situation where it's premature?
MikeIt wouldn't happen. No, no, no. I don't think that you can fall in love prematurely. Yeah, no, yeah. Not a real, genuine love that's going to last.
EldarYeah, that's going to last and you're going to stay there forever. It doesn't happen by accident and you're going to stay there forever. It doesn't happen by accident, correct?
Speaker 5I don't think so either True love yeah, I think that's it.
EldarYou know what I mean and that's how I feel inside. Babe, do you feel the same way Of?
Katherinecourse, yeah.
EldarYeah, you see, she feels the same way. This is it. We're together, we found our souls, found each other, and this is my person, I'm her person. We mutually feel the same way, and that's it, the gig's up.
PhillipYeah.
KatherineBut you know what, though, Like for like my whole life, up until like when I met you. This is something that I valued and I believed in, though you know.
EldarYeah.
KatherineI think you know it can depend on the person if that's not something that they have believed in.
MikeYeah, see, I was thinking about that earlier. Then Kat brought it back around. I also always believed it and when I was thinking about that earlier, that was the first time or at least I thought I fell in love. I was probably 13 years old, right. But I know that a lot of times people, especially when we're young our parents, they may steer us in the wrong direction and we have trauma that's associated with love, right? So maybe phil closed himself off, extremely closed himself off, because when he was young he had an experience. You know, I'm just you know, yeah, phil, as an identity, might have closed himself off, mike, but so what? Who gives a fuck?
Eldarabout that? No, no, I'm not saying that, I'm just you know. Yeah, phil as an identity might have closed himself off Mike, but so what? Who gives a fuck about that?
Mikeno, no, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that's why he has this thing about it where he's very scared and cautious and like against it because he had hurt. And obviously now it's been many, many years. But a lot of times a lot of people get stuck on that.
EldarThey're scared to be vulnerable, scared to open up, for sure 100, but that's, that's beside the point, because at the end of the day, that's not what the experience we're talking about you know what I? Mean that experience is a mutual experience, where hurt doesn't exist which one love. Well, in love and true love, I don't think that that stuff, all that stuff, is irrelevant yeah, that stuff is irrelevant, yeah, yeah, I think a lot of the hurt that comes from it was probably one-sided love where he was betrayed.
MikeYeah, you know that's what I'm saying, yeah, yeah, that he may be in that kind of thing where some people they have that.
Phillipso where? How do you go from like, uh, that mentality to um, is it like a, is it like a tapping into, like an inner strength in you, or is it just like a decision that you make and you're just like, hey, like I'm starting to value this thing?
EldarNo. I think that, more and more, as you become aware of pain, like like you're experiencing now with some of the relationships that you're having, you're going to start asking questions and you start having curious minds to say, like, wait, I like it, but is it worth it? And then, sooner or later, you're going to answer yourself is to say like no, I want something more meaningful. And you're going to start making choices and decisions and you're going to start taking actions that are going to go towards more of a responsible person who's getting into responsible relationships and being true with themselves, person who's getting into responsible relationships and being true with themselves, and inevitably, you're going to meet someone who's actually resonating that same exact thing that they're like yeah, I'm tired of games, I'm tired of just one night stands and booty calls because they don't lead anywhere. I want something meaningful. I want to, you know, I want to really connect and yeah, and you two will not have a choice in the matter, because love will live in that synchronicity.
Confusion and Guilt in Relationships
EldarSo what do you think? Individuals?
Phillipwhat do you think prevents me from having the curiosity to even ask myself those questions after it? Because, like, I can recognize the pain and say like oh, this doesn't, this doesn't feel right, like this is not comfortable. So then, like it's almost just like I'm going to like let it go. And then, like she'll text me again and it's like I'm trying to like like lighten the blow. So it's like, why am I not getting curious enough to? I have the ability to feel the pain and the awareness to feel the pain and realize that it's off. But like why am I not then curious enough to ask myself what is actually going on?
Eldarbecause it's probably not important any time. When things are not very that important, you're not going to put any time to it maybe what he's saying before he decided his priority in life is this.
MikeWhatever other stuff that he's pursuing, yeah, correct the other stuff supersedes this, not really realizing what again. It's like you're talking a lot of times, we talk, but we don't actually know what we're like. He doesn't have an idea what love entails and what it has the potential to transform your life. How, how?
KatherineYeah.
MikeAnd maybe he's talking from Nat's perspective, not really knowing that all those other things A they're irrelevant, but also with what's required from love, those things will also line up, that's why he needs to continue to go and suffer more.
EldarThat's the prescription of the doctor right, go out there and suffer more and keep going into these relationships where you think these situationships that you're going to get into, that you think you're going to extract happiness or pleasure for the moment. But the truth of the matter is the your awareness is not going to allow, your soul is not going to allow well, yeah, that happiness to dictate it anymore oh this is the same.
KatherineThis is like yo. This is a lot more painful. It's good he's going to be aware of, like when he's going to be aware when it clicks, he'll know, he'll know you guys sent me on this journey.
MikeThis is the same thing. I went on. You said you want to go do this, go do this, but now with a completely different awareness. Correct, you know, you tried.
EldarI tried it. Yeah, yeah, you tried it out. You have to give the person the blessing to go out there and run amok and really see what it is for. Because the thing is now, you can't hide from yourself, because you know this is out there, because then it's not my theory, it's your own theory.
PhillipYeah, and you believe this Well yeah, I'm running amok and it's like a.
MikeBut you've been running amok and you've been hiding. You've been like hiding between Phil and Phillip, like totally, and then totally, yeah, you've been doing the same thing in this sphere. Yeah, with a hat With you cannot hide. You know, every time you do this violation you can't blame it on.
PhillipPhilip, I've never ran a full muck.
MikeYeah, it was always two different people. It was like a half muck, that's right.
PhillipBecause the separation of I'm doing something along the lines of what? I think, but then afterwards I'm not communicating what I actually feel. That's right. So there's a separation.
EldarThat's the separation so if I didn't hide at the end, then it's a full situation.
PhillipThat's right. I'm going to play it out and actually see, like, what the other person thinks of what I actually think.
EldarYeah. And then see where it ends up when it stands, and then I think that's where growth happens, right there, with that realization, and will potentially get you to a next level.
PhillipHow many espresso martinis do you think I need to do For?
Eldarthe first one, so babe to bring you off to speed. Phillip is sleeping with a girl that he's not really into, but she's a little bit more into him than he is into her, and she's now inviting him to places things and like, like. So she wants to hang out, she wants to groom him, you know what I mean. That's not like the right terminology, though well, she wants to groom him into her, into her his his, her husband. She likes potential husband. You know what I mean. She likes it.
PhillipOh, there's like foreign so yeah, the english translation you know what I'm talking about, and he's obviously like entertaining some, some of the things and the English translation is a little bit very specific very specific meaning and he's obviously like entertaining some some of the things and then not entertaining some other ones.
EldarYou know, he's finding himself being like a people pleaser almost.
KatherineYeah, I know he's gotta tell her yeah, you have to tell her yeah like if it's strictly physical, you have to tell her like, hey, I'm not looking for anything.
EldarYeah, because she's going to keep unraveling itself. If you're going to, hang out with her.
Katherineshe's going to get the wrong impression. She's going to think you like her as well and that you're like wanting to get to know her, especially if you've seen her naked.
EldarHuh, especially if you've seen her naked.
KatherineWell, I mean, you know she's gonna get the wrong impression for sure yeah, somebody's gonna get hurt, oh for sure, or? Get a wrong impression and be under the wrong impression, and obviously that's the hurt well, if he hangs out with her outside of just what he wants, you're giving her the wrong impression, 100% yeah cause I was telling Elder, like, if I'm not reaching out to her, she's reaching out to me.
PhillipAnd you know I said specifically tonight, like we're doing the podcast. It was something she wanted to do tonight and you know I said no but I said hey, tomorrow I have my class and after class we can go to lunch. It's like, why did I suggest going to lunch if, like, I actually genuinely didn't want to do that, didn't want to do that and like, yeah, after lunch I'm like I'm cool with just doing my own thing and like, just walking around, like I I was saying that out of like there's some type of, like, I guess, guilt yeah, or some type of like feeling that I feel like I can be a still a good person, where I'm not telling her exactly how I feel, but I'm kind of like lighting, lightening the blow with like hey, do you want to do something else?
Phillipwhere it's like wait, why did I even say the other thing?
Katherinewhy? Why, babe? Because now she's under the impression like, oh okay, he's not hanging out with me today because he he's got something, but now tomorrow, yeah, he wants to hang out but why?
Eldarwhy the guilt babe? Why does he have guilt?
Katherineuh, I, he's a people pleaser, he's, he's, he doesn't want to be the bad guy but what else?
Eldarwhy is he doesn't want to be the bad guy? But what else? Why does he not want to be the bad guy?
KatherineIs he really the bad guy? No, I mean like, look at him very closely.
EldarLook at him. Is he the bad guy?
KatherineIn this scenario, I guess.
EldarWhy does he feel guilty, babe?
KatherineWhat is?
Eldarhe feeling guilty for? Think about it.
KatherineI just feel like what he's experiencing is so normal of like someone that just wants something physical, doesn't want. What do you mean normal? Well, it's very Common. Now it's common.
EldarIs it right?
KatherineSo I feel like he's used to this, he knows this, like like this, this world.
EldarLet's call it this world. He's experienced in this.
KatherineYeah, so have you felt guilty before or is that something new?
PhillipThe guilt- yeah, so I was telling her before I would feel the guilt after. But these, what would happen is I would sometimes engage in actual relationships with these people because I was like, wait, I am physically attracted to them, I do like hanging out with them but I wasn't able to separate that, that guilty feeling and saying like I shouldn't pursue this person.
KatherineIt's just like oh, like you know, I'm gonna go along with it what they call it like you're just going, yeah, you're just of going with it.
PhillipThey call it. I think it's called post-nut clarity. Sorry.
KatherineHave you heard about this or not?
PhillipAfter you have shmadoogans. When you clear your piping. After the guy clears their pipe, there's usually this kind of feeling. All of our female audience there's kind of like a feeling of like hey, why did I do this? And it's a separation correct.
EldarAnd when the woman likes them, there's usually more of a connection where they want to do more, yeah, you want to stay with them, you want to cuddle them and all this other stuff.
KatherineSo when you do it out of love, yeah, not out of love yes, you want to get the fuck out of there, there's a reason why this happens yes this is the highest form of connections for, of connection for humans yeah, right, yeah they even, you know, if you're into the woo, they say like, uh, there's a part of your chakra that like aligns with, but it just. It's almost natural for a woman to want to continue, you know, after connecting with a man, like that right.
KatherineSo I think it's really important for you to like, say no, like this is, like, this is where it ends. Or are you trying to steer him in the direction of like hey, this is probably not a line, like you're feeling guilty because this is not right. Is that where you?
EldarWell, no, I'm trying to ask you. I know why he's feeling guilty. I'm trying to ask you whether or not you can deduce as to why Philip is actually feeling guilty.
KatherineWell, I mean he's signing up to hang out with someone who he's not interested in, so no matter what, why would somebody feel guilty, babe? You're signing up for something you don't want to do to please her. So, in turn, you're not feeling good about it?
EldarWhy is he feeling like he has to please somebody? Why does he have to kind of repay her by accepting the lunch that he doesn't want to really be in? Is there an unfair exchange that's happening?
KatherineI don't know all the details.
EldarWhy does a person feel guilty, babe?
KatherineYeah.
EldarThink about how guilt is structured. Did you take more than you should have gave? Is there not a fair exchange? And now you're like, oh shit, I'm in debt, I got to give something back.
KatherineIs that how you feel?
EldarWell, that's what guilt is no.
PhillipWell, if I wasn't honest from the beginning, then inevitably then that would have to be the feeling, because if I wasn't honest from the beginning, of like we went out right, we had fun and it was. Even though, if I'm saying, okay, there's alcohol and we're drinking and we were attracted to each other in that moment, that was still me not being like logical and like being like even killed and being like yo. Let me analyze the situation. And it's logical and being even-keeled and being like yo. Let me analyze the situation it's like wait A thousand drinks
Phillipdeep and we're both horny, we're kissing, we're being stupid. What's stopping me from just not wanting to take the next step and just be physical? It's like I made a decision at some point of the night, or we both made a decision where it's like, hey, we're going to go down this path and like we don't need to connect on anything more than just like being physical and like whatever happens happens after. And what happens after is hey, I'm now able to understand the difference of when I actually am into somebody and I'm not, and I'm not into you, like that. But I can't actually be totally honest because now I don't want to hurt your feelings because I've known you for so long. That's right, like what the fuck?
KatherineYeah, yeah, you set yourself up.
PhillipWhy? Because I'm a dumb idiot. There you go, boom.
EldarBoom, Mike. What do you got? You're meditating, I was sleeping actually. That's meditation in its different form.
MikeThat is fine
The Burden of Consciousness and Guilt
Mikein its form. Why is he doing it? Well, no, you know why he's doing it. I know why he's doing it he's a pup. He's a deprived puppy. He can only take at the moment. Yeah, for a very long time, yeah.
EldarYeah.
MikeGive me a boobie.
EldarThat's why I think that might be the turning point, that if he does sit down with her and say, hey look, what's going on here.
Speaker 5The thing is and have that honest conversation. I think that's when For For him to finally get to the balancing beam For a robber.
MikeHe only wants to be a robber if he doesn't get caught. He only wants to be the bad guy. Yeah, nobody wants to be a person who gets caught. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But now that you are going to catch yourself, yeah, it's a completely different crime.
EldarIt's a completely different game. That's a very good question. That's why, again, fucking Socrates said no one knowingly does wrong. Yeah, he knows his shit, bro this guy Socrates. No one knowingly does wrong.
Speaker 5So, as soon as this motherfucker Are you going to disagree with that? No, I have a different thought.
EldarAs soon as he confronts this guy or himself within her. It's a girl. It's impossible, my boy, it's impossible for him to continue to do the wrong thing.
MikeIf he knows, now he knows.
PhillipThe robber can't consciously rob.
EldarCorrect, he cannot. He has a lot of justifications in his bag.
PhillipNo, right now I do yeah.
KatherineIn the moment, you will as well I want to talk about the female aspect of this, you know, because so, like I understand his guilt in this and his responsibility, like his, his responsibility in this situation, let's say, but it takes to the tango and this woman, this female girl, she signed up for this she signed up for the drinks, she signed up for the you know what?
PhillipI don't know about my fucking guilt.
KatherineI'm not removing his guilt, for sure but it's a two way road and she signed up for it, you know. And now for her to want something else, it's on her. I mean, you still have your responsibility on honesty but I mean she signed up for that let me ask you this question, the follow up question.
EldarThen, who's the burden on?
Mikewell me, because she wants something from me more than I want from her now it's clear that she wants more, so now who's gonna ask, not only because she wants more, but because Phil is the one who's actually conscious about what's happening now you know there's also he's giving in.
KatherineYou know, there's something going on. Oh, you want a little bit more, I'll give you a little bit more, but then it's going to just bite him in the butt.
EldarWe're assuming that Philip is having this dialogue and this conversation to raise more awareness on the situation. We're not sure what she's doing.
KatherineYeah, we have no idea.
EldarThe burden, burden of proof or truth. And you know it's on Philip fair right?
Katherineyeah, it's true that, yeah, 100%.
EldarI'm just kind of curious as the only female here.
MikeI'm thinking I've never been in that position.
KatherineYou know, I never put myself in that position, so that's why I can't relate.
EldarI think she's guilty as much as he is in this thing, she's the promoter of certain things.
EldarShe doesn't know what's going on either, right, she's unconscious, she's acting out of trauma in this thing. She's the promoter of certain things. She doesn't know what's going on either, right, she's unconscious, she's acting out of trauma and all this other stuff and insecurity and whatever. But I think that at the end of the day, because Philip is the one who's a little bit more conscious about the situation, I think he's the one who's almost the burdens on him to do the right thing, to do the right thing.
KatherineHe just wants to be a pup pup.
EldarYeah, that's what he thought he was, but I think, at the end of the day, I think that what we're seeing is a transformation from being a pup to being a grown person An.
EldarArchie, yeah, a little bit more grown is to be able to make good decisions, yeah, which will yield more obviously, at the end of the day, more fun and more pleasure
Navigating Love, Fun, and Growth
Eldarin a good way, yeah. But Like we're not, the thing is, at the end of the day, all these conversations, everything else that people think like, yeah, be honest and responsible, we're not trying to take away your fun. We're trying to enhance the fucking fun.
PhillipSee, I think that's also built in the belief of like, when there is love, it's like okay, all like the fun and games and like the horniness and like all the sexual stuff like goes away and it's like it becomes like this responsibility and, I think, built within me, feeling like there's a big distance between it. I think it's within that. It's like being an adult and being a grown-up or like being open and vulnerable like I don't think he believes.
KatherineYeah, there's no real want for the love. That's right, you know for that, that kind of relationship so that's why he doesn't understand it, and doesn't see himself in it.
EldarBut that's why he needs almost like a reminder or use case where I mean, we at least attest that like we're in love and we love each other and like we have fun and like, even like when we connect it's amazing, you know when we do connect.
KatherineSo I think he's gonna have to go crazy and do this, even like when we connect it's amazing yeah.
EldarYou know when we do connect.
KatherineSo I think he's going to have to go crazy and do this until he's like Burnt out.
EldarLike burnt out. Yeah, that's what we said. We said, look, if you don't believe this, then keep going around, fucking around and do all this shit Up until you realize that like there's nothing more to extract, there's nothing else.
KatherineI think, ultimately, what's going to settle in is the void of your just take, take, take, take for your bodily needs, and then you're going to sit there just with a void.
PhillipI think the big difference what I got from this is that if I am going to do this, I'm going to say like hey, listen, like uh, I realized. Like just you know, having sex is like what I actually want in this moment. But you know, from like a deeper perspective, I know there has to be something more, but like this is what I want right now. Like I don't have these conversations with with women, when I talk it's more of like we just drink and it kind of happens.
PhillipSo, like, if I'm thinking of, like you know, if it does start right, like, let's say, I had a girl here right and we're talking, and like we're having this conversation, and it's like, hey, listen, we're both horny, right, we both want to do something. But I think deep down, if we can start at that point, or at least have a conversation at some level, that we can have that type of understanding. I haven't had that before and what I'm understanding from what you're saying is that growth is going to happen from that point. Is that that's going to be the first time that I'm actually honest with that person?
Eldarin that moment. I think that you know. I mean, I want to promote it. You can't even imagine the type of connection you can have sexually if you really start the proper way, when you actually understand one another and you get fucking horny. Holy fuck, you know what I'm saying. I think you'd be baffled, bro. You know what I mean.
PhillipI'd have to take a couple weeks off. It's another. You might have to listen. See, there's like this realm.
KatherineAnd then there's that realm. Yeah, but it's hard to explain.
PhillipYou know, yeah, again, there's such a separation in my mind of what it is.
EldarIt's not just a matter of like just taking. It's probably more like a mutual like experience you know well it's like oh shit, like we actually like each other okay, you know what I mean like, like and there's safety and there's nice peace and like and pleasure and like all that stuff. Like you know, like I I know what you're talking about where you just had sex and you want to run away. I had that with my ex. Yeah, I don't have that with katherine. Yeah, I want to around Like we cuddle and we chill.
Navigating Personal Growth and Relationships
PhillipBut was there a difference in you and then how you perceived you and like who you were as a person, meaning like where I'm at now, I guess, in terms of like me as a person, of me as a person? Do I have to be at a place where I can almost be open to accepting that thing? Is there a place that you have to reach? Say, in a video game there's levels like 1, 2, 3, 9, 10.
EldarI don't think it's accepting, philip. I think it's forcing the thing when you want to force that upon someone else, where, if you understand what you're talking about, you have to preach it and sell it to someone else and they buy in and they're like, oh shit, this kind of feels good. It's not a matter of accepting, at least for me, because maybe I'm empowered.
PhillipSo what is it? It's education.
EldarYeah, on both ends. Yeah, like I oppressed Catherine and she's still. She's just realizing what's happened to her. You know what I'm saying? She's just realizing, like yo, what actually happened and this feels good and I'm still here and this is ongoing and this is great, and now it's like she's just grateful, grateful, grateful, grateful.
KatherineThis is great, but I believed in it.
PhillipYeah, but you were coming from a place of empowerment, I think on one of the podcasts you were saying one person has to be empowered, at the very least. So let's say, if I'm coming from a place of I feel there's a distance and I'm learning how to empower myself, but I'm not there yet, I'm going to then, in this moment, if I'm going to be in love, be reliant on another person's empowerment to get me to that place. So, as of right now, I feel like an inferior, almost like in the game of approaching love.
EldarDoes that make? Sense. Yeah, it does make sense. And I think it's fair. I don't want to bet on myself, I mean bet on the external world. I don't want it either.
PhillipThat's why. That's why I feel there's a distance and I actually feel in fear, because if I'm going into this right and I'm saying like I want you to be able to be in control and know exactly what you're doing me too.
EldarI want Mike to be in Everyone. Right now, I don't feel that, yeah, and I mean we're working towards that. Yeah, I mean more and more we're going towards that as you live a more honest, good life, you're going to have more fun. I hope through this you know what I'm saying. An empowered life, yeah, where certain outcomes you know you are in charge of, where no longer are the outcomes dependent on you just being there experiencing them. It's you creating the outcomes to experience for others, like even in today's situation with the dogs. Right, you saw it, I fucked around with the guy.
PhillipOh, my gosh, kat. This is so funny. We went to this. What would you call it? A brewery?
Eldarin Arkansas A brewery yeah.
KatherineAnd we were on our way out and we saw this guy.
PhillipHe was definitely like an interesting guy, to say the least, and he didn't have a dog on him, okay, but surprisingly enough, he had dog treats on him. Okay, I understand like how crazy this is. So he came up. He came up to Eldar. And he was looking at both of the dogs and was like hey, do you mind if I give them a treat? And eldar's response back to him was, yeah, you can give them a treat, but they're allergic, so I don't uh I don't know.
MikeIt's up to you yeah it's up to you.
PhillipYeah, and the guy looked back and like he kind of paused and it was like it was going through his head. He didn't say it but he's like okay, I can basically give these dogs the treats, but I can potentially get them sick. And then he ended up giving them the treats.
KatherineI was like what an experience and you let them give him.
PhillipWell, I was having fun, of course, they basically spit them up anyway.
KatherineYou don't know what's in that.
PhillipYeah.
KatherineI get that babe, there's so many wackos out there, yeah, I kind of trusted experience you know. I trusted the world, but this guy Never, not on my watch.
PhillipThis guy was like we were like I didn't even think about, like why he had dog treats on him. Yeah, okay, but he came up to us and, like he understood that like elder, asked him a very specific question. So like, hey, these dogs have, like they're allergic, like are you okay with that? Like are you okay with poisoning, potentially poisoning these dogs? And like he, he ended up giving them the treats anyway because he had an agenda. Then he said afterwards that his dog has black belly skin because, like it gets sick sometimes and it does like weird stuff.
PhillipAnd I thought this guy was one of the weirdest guys I ever met in my life, but I would have never even put it together. I'm like, okay, he had dog treats, whatever. And I'm like then I'm walking with these guys and like why did this guy have dog treats? I'm like, oh shit, why did a dog owner actually have dog treats on him? Is he feeding his girlfriend dog treats or is he eating dog treats for snacks? This is Hackensack, new Jersey. This is one of the weirdest towns ever and we just walk around here all the time. No, is it?
Katherinecrazy or no, I'm speechless. I'm still upset that he allowed a stranger to feed our dogs.
EldarYou guys gotta understand the whole point of his little story is that we try to be empowered enough to have fun with these types of interactions, when Philip never knew, or would have never thought, that this type of thing could be possible. Yeah, you know, he's like wait, what just happened? And we explained it to him. He's like yo, wait, this is weird. Here's some dude who was like yeah, I just want to give some treats, which is a very normal thing, I guess no it's not.
KatherineIt's normal to pet the dogs and talk about them.
EldarHe was given a response that he was not accustomed to, because he always gives treats to the dogs.
KatherineIt's equally as weird as having candy in your pocket and seeing a cute kid and asking the parent hey, can I give them some candy from this bag? No parent would ever say yeah it's that weird, you don't know.
EldarAnd that's why I gave him the choice and he took it. You know I was like yo. Look, these dogs are allergic. They usually know, but if you really want to go ahead, you had to see his face he froze and analyzed him.
PhillipHe was like what's happening His face that moment. Do you understand?
KatherineElder was like yo, let me guess Tully was not with you.
EldarHe was, he was. He let the dogs eat. That he did because he also understood the importance of it.
KatherineTully's fired Tully's fired.
PhillipHe's like they're going to be allergic. Are you okay with that? And he kind of froze and he just put his hand down and he just dropped them. They were like little cookie crisps. I can't, I can't, for they were like little cookie, crisps.
KatherineI can't, I can't, for the record it's weird.
MikeCan you explain to me? We had a beer brewery, we had a brewery.
EldarWait, do you think the brewery provided them?
PhillipDo you think the brewery provided the snacks?
EldarBut why would he have the motherfucking dog?
Miketreats in his pocket.
PhillipNo.
KatherineIf you saw this guy? No, it was his. Thing. Holy fuck, if you saw this guy no, it was his thing holy fuck, I would be the only one with sense there to at least not let them eat this.
PhillipI'm gonna go guys well, we were drinking a beer, I guess, so anyway you got any final thoughts for us?
Mikefinal thoughts no love is cool. I think the final thoughts is the seed is planted now for Phil. Thoughts for us, final thoughts no Love is cool, love is cool.
Speaker 5No, I think the final thoughts is the seed is planted, now for Phil.
MikeAnd I was saying that my final thought is that the seed has been planted for Phil, yeah, which is a huge thing. Yeah, I think you're right. So I'm curious. I want to hear more what's going to happen, because I think the trajectory is going to change completely.
EldarAnd I think that Philip, being Philip the way he is, it's kind of like even like the hat conversation right, a lot of times people won't take that kind of stuff seriously. He's like experimenting with it already just to see, like, where that gets him. Yeah, I think he'll be surprised. I'm not wearing it to class tomorrow, which is cool, like, exactly Like that's a thing that's big.
KatherineI'm going to follow you to the city just to confirm that.
EldarThat's big, you know and like. If you continue to take these certain steps and experiment with your life, I think that you'll be pleasantly surprised.
PhillipYeah, I'm going to wear my sunglasses though.
MikeJust to the class. That's fine.
EldarThat's fine? Yeah, I think that you should. I mean, listen if you're enjoying yourself, you're enjoying the experience. Who gives a fuck? Yeah, who gives a fuck? Go in there and fucking, you know, naked, who gives a fuck?
MikeDon't give the kid any ideas. Yeah yeah, he's like yo wait, wait at the treats You're not going to have pockets to hide them in.
PhillipI'm looking forward to this teacher, though this teacher is a personal teacher, I told you to Julie Gardner from Ozark. She won the Emmy. During her Emmy speech she shouted out the teacher there's a teacher I'm going to be with tomorrow. I'm very excited to see where she's at, what she's going to do. They were saying the type of teaching that she does is like it's kind of like gentle, but also it's like it's very deep emotionally.
EldarSo they were saying like we prepared you Philosophy.
PhillipClub prepared you for this shit. Yeah, so I'm ready. So like they were saying, like she wants to take you to places that like you haven't been, to unlock a certain type of things, to help you challenge certain type of emotions, to get to these places. So like I'm looking at this as like um, like a um, like an emotional challenge.
EldarIf they have a question where like hey, would you what, would you like to like experience, or would you like to uncover or benefit yourself in? It was like yo, I'm trying to get better at sales. You know what I mean? Yeah, Tell her, I'm like a paper at sales.
PhillipYou know what I mean. Yeah, I do Tell her I'm a paper salesman. Yeah, I'm currently watching movies right now at work and we have a philosophy podcast that I'm doing really well. Help me. I eat really well, I drink coffee very consistently and I make juice.
EldarBecause, remember, we're open to experimenting, philip, yeah, I think that as soon as she hears that she's going to be like yo really Try this. Next thing, you come, you fucking kill Tully. Holy shit, that'll be sick. Yeah, I'm ready.
PhillipThat'll be epic. It's going to be good. So tomorrow 11 to 2. Alright.
EldarSo what do you have? Final thoughts, final thoughts.
Navigating Love, Honesty, and Intimacy
EldarWhat did we talk about? Love being true, being honest?
PhillipBeing, oh yeah, I. What did we talk about? Love being true, being honest, being, oh yeah, I think there was honesty. I think there was understanding of, of, um, I guess understanding like impulse and I guess properly labeling it for yourself, especially as, like a man, like you know, if you're getting horny or you're going out there and, um, you do, you want to be somebody, even if you do have a conversation, and it's like, okay, both people are coming from the same place.
PhillipWe came to the conclusion that you cannot be intimate with somebody and fake love. You either have love or you don't. And if you're going down the intimate route and if you're going to say that we're just going to be physical, like that's a lie, yeah, and I know, going in, that this is a lie, but I think you allow, like the idea of pleasure to overtake that. And I think what happens is for somebody who maybe doesn't understand, like, what love can bring, if you haven't experienced it before, it's very hard to say like, okay, I'm willing to bypass that to get to the place that I'm willing to um, you know, um, take the chance of experiencing love, cause I know it's going to be, like that much more beneficial.
PhillipSo it's like there has to be some sort of moment where you're taking that guilt, you're starting to question it and become curious. I'm not at that place yet. I understand that. That's the next place. You're administering enough pain on yourself where you're getting into enough of these situations where you do become curious and you start to ask what can I actually do? They no longer serve you, as you remember, become curious and you start to ask like what can I actually do?
EldarThey no longer serve you, as you remember them to serve you.
PhillipThey no longer serve me. So what I understand is my next step is what I can actually do now is where I'm not genuinely curious because I maybe haven't had enough pain or I'm not ready yet is to be honest in the situation that I am now and just tell this person exactly what I am looking for in this, and it would be like, hey, having sex, we did it, but what do you actually think that we are Because I do see that you text me and you want to do stuff with me what do you actually think that we are Opposed to? Just kind of letting it go and just saying stringing along let's, let's go to lunch and let's do this stuff.
PhillipIt's like wait, what the fuck did? I just ask this person. You have to be an actor again, a people pleaser yeah, like, um, it's a burden, right, yeah, it is a burden because like, deep down, it's not what I want, that's right. And uh, it's almost like when I do tell that person I give myself this, like this guilt free, like temporary guilt free past, yeah, and I'm like, oh, you know what, like I don't have to deal with this until the next moment.
EldarI'm a good guy.
PhillipI'm good up until that point. Yeah, that's sick, yeah. So, understanding that there is a very temporary state to being a people pleaser and understanding that there are stages to it, you know being a full people pleaser and just you know, doing something that I necessarily maybe didn't want to do or didn't think about, where you just have a one night stand and you're not analyzing it. Now I'm able to analyze it and realize, okay, afterwards there is a guilty feeling. Yeah, I'm not connecting with this person on genuine integrity values. I'm talking about very superficial stuff. We're allowing alcohol and anything else to just kind of interfere and dictate, kind of like, what happens at the end of the day. So the guilt to me is inevitable. Now, I understand that, but now it's a matter of like.
PhillipOkay, I'm not curious enough to ask myself the questions, but I do owe it to myself to at least be honest with the situation and to convey exactly that. So, instead of saying, hey, I want to go to lunch with you, it's like hey, if you want to text me and you want to do something, it's hey. You know, I understand, you know you want to do something Like what do you actually think that we are? What this is yeah, yeah, what do you think this is? And then from that, then we can have a conversation and it's like hey, you know what? I don't look at us like that, and if it hurts, it hurts, but at least it's honest, it's there and it's out there, and then I don't have to have the burden of being a people pleaser. That's is my next action. And you're going to feel so good when you do it.
KatherineYeah, you're going to feel so good it's going to like like this weight that you don't have that's on your shoulders.
PhillipIt's going to feel great, okay, I need McDonald's.
EldarBabe, what are you thinking?
KatherineI said what I said.
EldarYou said what you said.
KatherineYeah, no, I I mean no just from you know I came in pretty late, but yeah, obviously you have to. You know you have to be honest, you know. Lay your cards out like this is this is what I'm looking for. Um, you don't want to hurt someone's feeling. You're going to feel a lot worse if you keep on like stringing her along and hanging out she's going to catch feelings sooner, or?
Katherinelater you gotta deal with this shit it's not something you can hide from or avoid it's either very slow, ongoing or just rip the bandaid off the sooner you're honest with her, the better things will be for you also. This will set a tone for you as well, to be able to be honest going forward with any other females that you engage with. So, yeah.
EldarYeah, good luck and hopefully you get into engagements where you actually enjoy yourself, versus not, versus having to again force yourself through guilt. Yeah, because think about it.
KatherineThis started as like let's just have fun. You know, like maybe he's at a bar having a few drinks, meets her, they're having a good time and then they prolong the fun, right yeah but it's not fun anymore, because now you're like oh shit, like now she wants to hang out and you know, like now I have to fit her into my schedule. Like if it's not because you want to do it or you're having fun, then it's just what is it for?
Philliptaking away from you yeah, because, because it didn't start from that place. When you're having fun and you're drinking like that's like a one percent of my life, you know what I mean like it's very small percent so like in order to connect and then prolong that and then make that reality, like I'd almost have to, be like a professional party or something who has this life. That's right like.
EldarUh, you know so to me yeah, who's gonna be able to, like, keep that energy with you?
Phillipyeah, like right to me it's unsustainable for anybody, that's right. So, yeah, there's honesty there. But also there's like the like, the like realistic expectation of like, hey, you understand, like when we were hanging out or we reconnected, it was strictly off of like drinking and like on like a totally fun night. Like, yeah, it's almost like when you take somebody on vacation, you meet somebody on vacation, yeah, and you're like it's like this is not reality, this is too good on a day-to-day basis, like, how many times do I take vacation? Like, let's say like, if you are like you know you're doing well, you can go on vacation, maybe once a year or something like that.
PhillipRight, like I haven't been doing well like that I haven't been on vacation a while, yeah like that's the next thing we gotta send you on vacation. Yeah, I think I have to go on vacation, so let's say like, let's say, somebody's doing well, they can go on vacation maybe let's say once a year, right, so you're doing really well.
PhillipYou can go multiple times, let's say once a year. For the average person they go on vacation. Like the person that you are on vacation to me is like this like weird fantasy idea of like, whatever you are in your regular life, like I don't see that like. When I went on vacation to me it was like I drank different, I like didn't have my regular like workout routine, I ate we were talking just like kind of crazy and they'll go in a pool and a beach and just like sleeping in. Like to me, vacation is very different from my regular life.
PhillipYeah, now I don't know if that's like a bad thing or a good thing, but like I just don't associate going on vacation life or like party life with like what's sustainable in a relationship. I don't have that idea. Yeah, I could be off, but I just I don't see those two connecting. So when I'm saying there's a guilt type of feeling if I am connecting on, like somebody I went on vacation with or somebody I'm partying with, it's like to kind of reverse that and go back into like regular life. It's almost like if you start regular life and you're okay, this is who I am on a day-to-day basis. These are the responsibilities I have. This is who I am, and then we go on vacation because we like each other. I think that's different, but if we start with zero responsibilities, best vibes, everything's great.
PhillipIt's like where do you go from that point?
KatherineOnly down.
PhillipI can't imagine going up from that point, because there's almost no rules. At that point, nothing you can say is really going to deter me from wanting to pursue you or you pursue me, we're not being honest with each other. It's just about our bodies and how you smell and how you dress and all this surface level bullshit.
PhillipIf we did the opposite route, where I meet you out, we go on a real date and we're actually talking about what we like, what we value and who we are relationship with your family and friends, your aspirations, like what you want to do with your life, yeah, who you are, where you've been, and it's like, okay, now we like each other in six, eight months or a year, like now we want to go on vacation together. Yeah, that seems like more of like a reasonable trajectory versus what I'm doing now, which is like I'm party vacation mode guy and I'm feeling this guilt and it's like, okay, this makes sense of why I feel this. But like why can't I be honest? And like that's like the conundrum that I'm at now. It's like, okay, I have to take that next step and just be. Why am I still an actor? Yeah, why am I still not being honest with this person, where I clearly know that there's a feeling of and wrongdoing? Yeah, and I'm consciously feeling this. Why can't I deliver this thing? Yeah, and that's like the turning point.
EldarInteresting. I have to go on. Good, I'm glad we identified it. Yeah, this is very important Girls. So those are my final thoughts. I'm glad that we identified some of your, you know, I guess the fork in the road.
KatherineYeah.
EldarAnd the choices that you got to make.
KatherineI think his heart is taken already. Huh, I think his heart is taken.
EldarYes, oh yeah, he's got another girl to hear.
PhillipI do really love Penny though.
KatherineOur Penny pup.
EldarYeah, Penny was as easy though. Yeah, you know what I mean. I do love her though, yeah she, she's wild, she's a wildling.
KatherineShe loves wildly.
EldarYeah, if that's the thing she does she's?
Phillipgreat oh is she a wildling? She's like A wildling. Who's the guy from Game of Thrones with the orange beard? Remember him.
KatherineThe orange beard.
EldarYeah, the wildlings, those are the wildlings, the wildlings. Remember, remember, there's a girl with the beard. They were the wildlings. I love them. She's a wildling, yeah, she is a wildling.
PhillipPenn, are you a wildling?
EldarArch is Jon Snow.
PhillipLook at him, arch is a very distinguished gentleman, jon is 100%, or he's a Lannister.
EldarYes, he always pays the debts. Wait, you both watched Game of Thrones? Yeah, we watched it. Or he's a Lannister? Yes, oh yeah, he always pays the debts.
Philliphe definitely does, yeah wait, you both watched Game of Thrones? Yeah, we watched it.
KatherineI didn't finish it, but yes, I did watch it.
EldarOh yeah, it's a good show. Alright, guys. Well, thank you so much. This was great.
KatherineThis was great thank you for having me, even though I was right there.
EldarYeah, no, that was great, thank you. Thank you for coming Outro Music you. Thank you.