Dennis Rox
The 'Dennis Rox' podcast is a deep dive into the intricacies of personal development, self-growth, and the obstacles one may face on the way. Hosted by Eldar with regular guests Mike, Anatoliy, Phillip and Katherine, and Tommy the conversations explore themes such as anxiety, self-sabotage, the pursuit of happiness beyond materialism, and the complexities of love and relationships. Other topics include the impact of societal values on personal fulfillment, humility, and the often misconceived notions of success and wealth.
Through personal stories, philosophical debates, and thoughtful discussions, they explore various aspects of challenging one self and achieving personal growth. The conversation often shifts from individual experiences to broader societal critiques and is characterized by a focus on depth and seeking genuine understanding over superficial conclusions.
Dennis Rox
113. Embracing the Struggle for Concentration and True Contentment
Have you ever found yourself juggling tasks, only to realize you're not truly present for any of them? Mike, our guest, once lived at such a frenetic pace that his life felt like a blur. Together, we tackle the elusive nature of focus and concentration. Our conversation journeys through the maze of daily to-dos and the psychological undertow of unmet expectations. With Katherine's relatable struggles with a packed schedule and potential ADHD, we empathize with listeners who grapple with prioritizing and the paralyzing buzz of a busy mind.
Navigating life's challenges requires more than just ticking boxes off a list; it calls for a deep dive into self-discovery and overcoming the ego's defenses. In a series of candid exchanges, we traverse the path from denial to acceptance of personal flaws, using humor as a gentle guide to confront our arrogance and fears. This episode peels back the layers of the mind-body connection, revealing how acknowledging our pain can lead to holistic healing, and questions the conventional definitions of success, prompting listeners to reevaluate their own measures of achievement.
Join us as we explore the possibilities that arise when distractions are stripped away, allowing one's true purpose to emerge. The quest for balance and consistency in life's pursuits underpins our discussion, highlighting the transformative shifts that occur when we align with our inner truth. Whether you're seeking clarity in the chaos of everyday life or striving for a deeper understanding of personal fulfillment, this episode promises a heartfelt dialogue that will inspire you to reconsider your paths to enlightenment.
we on X
On this week's episode. When you're doing 100 things, you cannot give attention to anything really properly. You're just on autopilot roboting shit, you're high-fasting everything. High-fasting, everything exactly.
Eldar:That's why sometimes things fall through the cracks, and I think that's one of the reasons why you started feeling it. All the time.
Toliy:The only purpose is the seeking of the truth and the aligning with it, Because if you have that, you will not experience that kind of life and you won't live a life that is not real. There you go.
Phillip:To me, that thing that's inside of you, it's inside of you and it can't come out until you actually align with the truth and the truth. To me, I think it's like a medicine, where it can actually heal you.
Eldar:Yeah, oh I agree with you, man. Yeah, yeah, wow, all right. Tonight's topic is focus, or concentration or consistency. Right, that word.
Katherine:Or lack thereof.
Eldar:Or lack thereof. Right, I know, babe, you've been struggling with this for a while and now you've discovered yet again another superpower of yours, and that's the inability to focus. It's great. Join the club area.
Eldar:Yeah, Listen there's plenty of people that are running around like chicken headless chickens. You know what I mean, and maybe they are under the impression that they're multitasking or the game is shit done, right. But up until a point where you finally slow down and start feeling the pains from those endeavors, you can't really see it. It's very kind of invisible. You're just going around doing shit, again shit done, thinking that you're productive or you're doing good for yourself, but a little that you know you're actually not. You're not in the state of flow, you're not in the state of peace.
Katherine:You're not in peace.
Eldar:Big one, yeah, peace, and obviously long enough. Then they call these things like ADD, adhd and all this other stuff, right. So let's open it up, mike. What do you think? This is a big one for you, and I think you will shed some light on it, because you definitely came from those or still maybe struggling with some of this hyperactivity.
Mike:Yeah, buzzing as we call it Buzzing. Yeah, no, I definitely still am a buzzer, but I'm my name is Mike, I'm a buzzer.
Eldar:A buzzing bee.
Mike:But I think I'm not buzzing as much as I used to. Why? I think I didn't want to hide anymore Once I realized what I was doing. I wanted to face on my things that challenges. Face those challenges head on. It's interesting that you chose to hide.
Eldar:What do you mean by that?
Mike:Well, I think the buzzing and the lack of focus.
Mike:We do it because we don't want to face what we actually, consciously or subconsciously, should face, right, mm-hmm, like, if we want to live a good life, right, you want to be happy, you want to be healthy, you want to be at peace, like you said. Yeah, there are certain things you need to do in order to achieve that, right? Yeah, we all want to be happy, we all want to be at peace, but you first have to face yourself in order to know where you need to work on and what you need to work on, and buzzing around gives you unlimited time to just keep pushing that. Wow, it's a mechanism, so you don't have to face something that you don't want to look at. Oh, okay, the way I. That's a very interesting way that you put it.
Eldar:I am interpreting it for myself. I'm interpreting it for myself. Yeah, don't use the word we here, because we have a we police today. Only today, guys, we have a, we police.
Toliy:Yes, you did say that generally people suffer from this before I did say this.
Mike:Yes, I was off camera, so then, as you could see, now?
Eldar:No, it wasn't no. But you also, to be fair, you also have to understand. And now we're quickly redirected towards Mike's very personal.
Toliy:No, yes, but I did remember that you said that. Good, I acknowledge it in a moment.
Eldar:And that's why I'm giving you props here, because you're the we police today.
Toliy:Does he accept all funding from the?
Phillip:we police.
Eldar:Yes, he's 100% right. Yes.
Toliy:Yes, because others did not survey all the people in the world.
Eldar:Correct, I did not. Yeah, it was definitely a general statement, which would then redirect it to Mike. And Mike confirmed this for himself.
Phillip:That was like a taser.
Eldar:A taser shot. He has that. You like it. Right, you like it. It came from the walk that we had.
Phillip:What's the one that when you press it and then it comes off and then it zaps you Taser. No, no, no, there's another one. Oh, a stun gun.
Toliy:Stun gun. Yeah yeah yeah. That's a nice. He likes this kind of shit. Right One is like you don't have to and one that shoots out these things.
Mike:It shoots out when it hits you and then it. That's right, that's an excellent one what movie was it when? Like the Hangover.
Toliy:Where they shot it and he didn't even move, like he didn't even flinch.
Phillip:No, no, was that a hangover?
Toliy:In the hangover, they were teaching the kids like hey, this is what it looks like, yeah, and they got him going.
Phillip:They showed him the stun gun.
Toliy:Oh, that was excellent. Oh no, they did it on the Zach Kalfinakis guy and he didn't move.
Phillip:Remember Like they shot him and he was just like they did it on two, one from the office and the other one yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eldar:Yeah, it was good.
Mike:All right, this was a very good example. Yeah, I did not stay focused. Yes, okay, thank you guys. Thank you.
Eldar:Yeah, so, mike, yeah Sorry.
Mike:Yeah, so that's the way I process. That Is that. It's. That's what I was doing. You know it was serving me. Yeah, because I didn't want to face something. You know, for whatever reasons I can I mean I don't remember at the time what they were, but I think a lot of it for me was that to keep pushing off the things that I didn't want to work on, that I didn't want to improve myself, I wanted to keep lying to myself, right?
Eldar:You used hyperactivity buzzing right yeah as a means to cope with that stuff.
Mike:It forces you to not like slow down. Okay, you know that's very interesting, so that's the way I used it, you know, for a very long time. But then, you know, once I started talking more with you guys and wanting to like improve my quality of life, I started.
Eldar:It was inevitable that we're gonna like uproot this problem as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and think about it, yeah.
Mike:And I mean I still buzz for sure. Yeah, but I think you know some areas I'm more conscious about it and I'm more okay with it. Yeah, you know, and some areas still have to work on it. Okay, for sure.
Eldar:Babe, can you relate to his style of buzzing that he says that he almost, like, used to use it as a hiding mechanism or coping mechanism to maybe not face some of the problems that were actually in front of him? It's possible. Why do you think you buzz or you have this hyperactivity and things that you want to accomplish and get done, and there's 10,000 things and 800 sticky notes per day. Yeah, 800 events.
Toliy:Also the funny thing about this. Like I think up until maybe like a year ago or something like that, when we talked about this, I think, just like briefly, I did not know that Catherine does this Really. Yeah.
Eldar:Oh, that means you didn't know.
Toliy:Catherine. No, I remember I don't know if it was like a day or something where, like maybe it was that time where, like I think your car tire or something got messed up or something, and like you weren't going to have a car for like a day or something, and then I was like, oh yeah, that doesn't matter, like Catherine's home anyway, yeah. And you were like, what do you think?
Speaker 7:No, like she goes to this and this and this, I do many things. I do many things.
Toliy:Really, I didn't even know that Like yeah, she's like a day full of past, big buzzer. Yeah, I was assuming that she's just like chilling at home.
Katherine:Who, who, who. Yeah, I can't do that yeah.
Toliy:See, I had no clue that I was doing that.
Katherine:My brain doesn't allow me to just chill, yeah.
Toliy:Like I would have never taken that cat as someone that, like, is out all day. I thought that you know she doesn't take it slow in the morning, like you know. Relax more like.
Katherine:Who saw my calendar? Was it you? And he said like, your calendar gives me anxiety.
Toliy:What the?
Katherine:So this is my calendar and these are multiple things that I can do. Can you top producing a couple of?
Eldar:those things yeah.
Toliy:Can you tell us what was yesterday and today Sure.
Phillip:My name's Kent, and this is my calendar.
Katherine:Okay, so the first one was call Archie's vet to get a list of his vaccines, archie made mom's list. I need to know what vaccinations he has already.
Eldar:But you don't have to explain it, so reminder the second one was writer payroll entries.
Katherine:So I had to, you know, enter writer payroll and then I had to make an appointment for Eldar and I to get our physical exams. You know, just like an annual physical with a doctor.
Eldar:And most of the times you don't complete those things.
Katherine:I did it. He, he, he he. Then there's my surrender class, which I reserved a reservation for, and then the last one was okay, I canceled. That is, archie and Penny had to visit the visit together and I canceled that one. Okay.
Katherine:And then today, oh shoot, I didn't do that one. I had to call. I made an appointment for Ferita and they needed a security deposit and I tried to pay with a credit card and didn't go through. So she's like call back tomorrow with a different card, but I forgot to ask him for it.
Eldar:Okay, so do you interact with your calendar more when you have to put stuff in or when you have to do them? I would say you like putting stuff in.
Katherine:I would say I follow it pretty closely Okay. Is it? 100%. No, but it reminds me, otherwise I can't remember things yeah.
Toliy:But so far we're talking about. She did four tasks yesterday with one yoga class.
Katherine:Yeah, yeah, like yesterday was in like a day where I was like all over the city.
Mike:Yeah, but there's stuff on it that might not be on there, Right Like oh yeah, there's plenty of stuff, probably that I you know but don't make the cut. They don't make the calendar cut. Yeah, like buy batteries or something, return something.
Toliy:Like I'm not understanding like what's different between someone who buzzes and who doesn't like who who doesn't buzz them like under these kind of yeah, it's a good question.
Eldar:Let's see, let's see. Uh, babe, what's your testimony here about the way you buzzed, the way you running around and what's? How has it been serving you versus let's? Then maybe we'll compare it to a person who you know.
Katherine:I guess part of like no.
Toliy:I'm saying who doesn't buzz? I'm saying you're like, like everyone.
Phillip:Yeah, you have like a light Gallup. This guy's on a fucking speedboat.
Toliy:Except he's on concrete, yeah, concrete, oh my God Okay.
Katherine:So what's your question? Like what's not serving me?
Eldar:Yeah, what's actually not serving you, about the way you actually have been doing things or the way you've been handling your day to day, that that's not making you really happy.
Katherine:But like. So what happens is, let's say, I have to do five things today. Sometimes I will kind of almost obsess about these tasks and then I overwhelm myself and then there's like a you get paralyzed, it's almost it's paralyzing, and then you get nothing done because you're like, oh shit, I have all this stuff to do. Which one do I do first? Like I have a hard time sometimes even prioritizing it, because it just becomes like a mess in my brain.
Katherine:Okay, you know, so I think sometimes it can be hard to get things done just because my mind, like my brain, is kind of like all over the place, so that feels it's tough because so that affects your self-esteem. I was talking to my therapist about this and she's like well, you know, it sounds like you have the signs of ADHD. I'm not diagnosing you, because a psychiatrist would have to diagnose you but it sounds like you have like these, you know these symptoms and this affects your self-esteem as well, because if you're never completing tasks like if you're starting stuff but never finishing them, like you start a bunch of things and never complete it that's affecting you, you know, it's causing frustration, you're disappointed in yourself and it's all I constantly go through. That you know. But I think I also deal with perfectionism, which doesn't help at all. So I think it's like a multitude of things that are just constantly like buzzing in my brain, terrorizing you.
Mike:Yeah, it sounds like everything she's saying. It sounds very similar to you know what I was going through and it's all very connected. Like everything here to me, like what she's describing, it makes perfect sense why she's going through, what she's going through and how she's like going through the buzzing. These are mechanisms that we create for ourselves to like protect the back end, and it's a very like a crazy cycle, Like I mean, I went through it. But you know, I know how it is, like we just do a lot of stuff. We do things that we set, like these lists of things that we have to do. We don't want to do them, but we rather do them than face what actually we need to do, right? So this is again I mean, I'm sharing from my personal experience yeah, the mechanism that I created in order to not face what I actually needed to do. But you can't say, oh well, I'm busy, I'm doing stuff. Guys, my calendar is full, I'm doing a lot of shit.
Mike:But it's not actually stuff that I don't give a fuck about. That's not that important to me, but it keeps me busy enough not to face what's actually happening, and that's the way. I was just observing the circle when she was describing it for myself. So it's almost like.
Eldar:It's almost sounds like, at least in this sense, if you're going to put it where like it's tied to, maybe, self-esteem and stuff. It's like, if I have a big list of things to do, right, my calendar is full of shit, I'm an important person. Yeah, I'm getting shit done. Exactly, I'm moving things, yes.
Katherine:Can I speak on that? Remember, I think we spoke on this last night and I spoke to my therapist about this as well. I was struggling with depression and anxiety about three years ago, so I didn't feel like myself and that's when I first started therapy, and so the depression was pretty bad, and so I came to a point where I couldn't even get myself to, like, take a shower in the morning, like you know, getting out of bed, not having like the will to even get out of bed, right?
Eldar:No single tolia here. Now what?
Toliy:Like a shower every early day. Tolia turn around.
Katherine:Now, guys, this has nothing to do with hygiene or anything. It's just one of the things that we started like working on was like kind of building a routine for myself, something that would be healthy and just get me out of bed, you know. One of the things was like get out of bed and take a shower, you know it's going to refresh you, you're going to feel good, catch a dress and then, you know, have a routine, you know. And so then implementing physical exercise was important at the time. It's like go for a walk, go to a gym, but we need, we need like exercise is going to improve your mental state you know so you're going to feel good.
Katherine:So we need you to work on those things, just like get up, shower and then get out of the house, go to the gym, go for a walk, get some fresh air. And so now, after you know two or three years like I feel like that has been so important for me to create this routine of getting myself out of the house and doing something that feels good and productive. Because I guess my brain sees it very black and white. It's like if I'm not doing this to buzz, I'm going to go back to depression. You know, it's very scary.
Katherine:It's very scary I get it. I will do almost anything, so like I don't go back to that.
Eldar:Sounds like PTSD almost I have PTSD Like.
Katherine:I'm so scared, even to the days I sit in my house without you know, not much to do. I feel guilty about that, but I also I feel nervous that like, oh man, you know, it's like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, it takes me back to depression. So it's, you know, like I'm here because I focus so hard on that and now I'm just like, oh shit, I'm still lost. Like it's really humbling, because I'm like, oh my God, I'm still not doing something right. Like I'm this whole time I've been trying to do things that are good for me and I'm not really sure where I'm at actually.
Eldar:So sorry, Mike, but doesn't feel like you leveled up a little bit at least 1000%, that's.
Mike:that was the question I want to ask yeah. Maybe you've came to a point that you've leveled up. Do you feel like you've leveled up Right? You said 1000%, right, yeah, so maybe those systems that you created those years ago there might not be no longer effective.
Katherine:I'm in a place where I might have to reassess those things. I think we touched on it yesterday and we spoke briefly, absolutely.
Mike:I think now you have, like I mean I'm assuming here, but you can confirm but like I'm assuming you have the showering and the gym thing already in a good place. Yeah, guys, I have no issues with that.
Mike:No, I know, but I think those are a good way to start the morning for sure. Like you know, the gym that's always good for mental health and physical, I think too, and I believe you do love it Now. You have like a really good relationship with it. From what I'm hearing, you know that you like it. So now, maybe those other things that you were doing maybe I guess it's maybe evaluation, you know, if those things are serving you, because you're not no longer the same person you were when you started here three years ago and if you've progressed and you're saying a thousand percent, that means your quality of life has improved, so you may be able to you know, but you know what too, like when I say a thousand percent, there's also like the bar was so low.
Katherine:I was overwhelmed with stress, I was overwhelmed with anxiety, I was depressed and I didn't know it. And now, you know I'm not perfect now, but you know, I think I got myself out of that hole, I guess. So like looking at how bad it was back then. That's why I'm saying like, oh yeah it's improved like so well, just because the bar was so low back then.
Mike:Yeah, well, I think that's all I think From my experience. I think that's part of that journey. Like, is that maybe you yourself, maybe you do need somebody to help you to understand that you've leveled up a little bit. Sometimes it's hard to see it for yourself. Maybe that thing to stay humble is there for a reason, so that you can maybe ask somebody else, be like hey, am I ready for like a next step? You know so, like these things they're like kind of like come in more naturally to me or they're no longer serving me and I can try something else, like you know.
Eldar:I actually think that because she feels like it's leveling up. I think it's as you become more aware of your own pains, right, you start becoming more sensitive to them obviously you know what?
Eldar:I mean, and now that she's completed, like you said, one stage of it maybe depression was even worse. Yeah Right, she's like okay, cool, like maybe I don't have to worry about that much, much anymore. But I realize how my method now is actually also not serving me and how they provide me pain. Before they did, and she was okay with that level of pain. Now that she's like okay, cool, like I've stabilized that part of me, I can now focus on new things that are actually providing me pain and reevaluate that whole strategy. Yeah, and I think this is a very good progression.
Katherine:You know what I just realized back then when I was dealing with, like you know, just kind of raising awareness for the depression. And you know, talking to that first therapist that I started with I was a lot of people don't really face it or really realize it, because they become very good at distracting themselves, and I was very good at that. I would just distract myself and keep busy and then I had to kind of chill, look at myself, develop some self-awareness, learn about myself and then start kind of from the ground up right, and I feel like now I'm at a different level, but I'm still possibly going back to those the same thing of distraction.
Mike:But I think that's just maybe that's significant, that you might be no longer needing these things. They're like no longer serving you. Because when did you like, I guess, when did you start feeling these things are no longer serving you? Right now, right away, right, like over time it took you some time to build up that good consistency in what you're doing now, right, but now you may look at it and be like, hey, actually I want to level up even more, I don't want to like, I guess.
Toliy:Yeah, but I've viewed it as just like the current systems are like. They're like not like enough, yeah, yeah like exactly. Not necessarily they're not working, just you need like that, maybe that, maybe plus more, I think that they're working really well, yeah, I actually think it's really well that this is happening.
Eldar:This is very good.
Phillip:But yeah, like I think he's talking about fulfillment.
Eldar:Correct. Yeah he's saying that look before you know these things will this was enough, and now we've gotten to a point where she can't extract the same enough. She wants more yeah which is completely she's raising awareness Like wait a second, something's up with me. Why am I doing this? Why am I using these strategies that are not serving me to get something that's not really good enough anymore?
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that like the, the I don't know if it's paradox blown up, but like. The interesting thing is that, like, as you acquire more, like information, you think that you know more, but then, like, through the process, you actually like like you realize anything. Yeah that. But then you also like you need to kind of apply what you know, but then you also want to know more now and you can't, like, like you can't just imagine that certain things don't exist anymore.
Toliy:And in the beginning, I think in the very infant stages of you learning new information and like learning these things about yourself or about like the world and stuff. There are certain things that are like enough for you to like hide or like not to feel certain things, but then you get to a point where you can't unsee these things anymore and then you get to a point where you you do want more and you're like hungry to like learn more.
Katherine:Yeah, I do I do, I do feel like, as we're talking about it, I definitely I feel that that's great.
Eldar:This is great that there's, there's, I don't know you unlocked another level in your mind and the vastness became bigger, and then it's going to keep going. You know, as you keep unlocking your mind, it's almost like it's forever. Yeah this learning process that you just described is forever.
Katherine:It's like a craving to learn, but I'm almost like I don't know where to begin. It. Just I'm all over the place. But I did have a really interesting conversation a few months ago where my therapist told me she believed that I kind of have like, in a sense, like reached a level where now there's a part of me that needs to be fulfilled, and that's fulfillment. She said you need a purpose.
Katherine:Now, this is the moment where you need that purpose. So she goes, whether it's I don't know, volunteering or go intern somewhere or get a, something that is in like like you know a realm or whatever that interests you, and at that time I was like, oh, that's a great idea. But I couldn't think of like something that was calling me that like, oh, I definitely like want to go do that, you know. She said you know you can go with Archie and volunteer in a hospital and he can calm, you know, sick kids or you know he can be comforting to someone you know like just throughout, like things like that. And they all sounded like great ideas, but I didn't like attach to them. I could relate to any of them.
Katherine:So that's why I haven't done anything about that just because, like, as soon as it speaks to me, as soon as, like I'm like, oh, that's definitely it, like I'm going to do it, but I'm just I don't know what that is yet.
Mike:Sometimes doing nothing is doing something, oh shit.
Eldar:I'm not sure what that means, but I just thought yeah, you're getting into a realm of the we police, bro.
Mike:the general statement, so you better know what I think in this case, maybe like those things they're not serving you anymore, but you are maybe, you mean maybe needs to slow down and really remove those things and then think and talk and ask questions to be like, okay, what do I want to do now?
Mike:Because now I have like I'm on level two or whatever three, 10, whatever it is, and really dedicate the time because you're still doing those things that kind of like you know well those things are not examine things right, Not examine exactly, yeah, and I think those things.
Eldar:If she's actually slows down, it starts to say, okay, I have this thing on my plate, let's dissect it, you know. And then she quickly finds out that it doesn't really serve her, Her relationship with it is unhealthy, whatever that is right, and then she needs to either drop it or tweak it to keep it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and that needs to be done again. It needs to be unpacked with a therapist or whoever you know, to be able to really, you know, zoom in on that, on your lifestyle. Yeah.
Eldar:You know and then really see what works and what doesn't. And I think I think the reason why she's bringing up purpose and stuff and it's because now go back to our conversation is focus, right. Yes, if we have purpose, what do we do Usually right? We do a lot of it right, and we do it gracefully, happily right, freely right, and it comes easy to us. That's our purpose, right. And what happens in you know, in those states, is that we focus on that stuff and we like it, you know.
Eldar:Yeah, I think this is go back, goes back to the topic now and naturally, what's going to happen? Right, the person who's running away not knowing what to do and how to do it has wrong Right now. She has wrong, I guess, associations with those things right, perceptions, perceptions and associations with those things right she starts to having from having 100 of those things. She narrowed it down to two or three, she brought in focus and now she's focused and those things no longer provide the ADHD or whatever hyper activity that it used to do because it no longer serves us purpose.
Eldar:Yeah, yeah.
Mike:And that's how you cure yourself, cure your own mind. Yeah, you know what I mean you talk about this process, but you have to do it.
Eldar:If you don't do it, then the gigs up. You have to do it if you want to. Yeah, Sorry, I interrupted you, but I wanted to get that out.
Mike:Yeah, no, I agree with you. I mean like I think through my journey I put a lot of value on that thing of removing things from your life, you know you went with the process of elimination. Yeah, I was like yo, I got to remove shit from my life. Yeah, Because I'm doing a lot of shit.
Mike:And it's not giving me a chance to slow down. Yeah, you know, really be in the moment and see what I want to do. So I did. I feel like I did that. You know all the buzzing things that I was doing, I don't know, I don't remember now I could think about it, but for examples, but for me removing shit was very important.
Eldar:I remember that yeah.
Mike:And I think I think I said I was telling Kat yesterday like, yeah, it gives you the opportunity again to slow down and evaluate and see things, because when you're doing 100 things you cannot give attention to anything really properly. You just give him here on autopilot robotting shit, half passing everything, half passing everything.
Eldar:Exactly, and that's what. Sometimes things fall through the cracks, and I think that's one of the reasons why you started feeling it. Because you've, you've, you've, you witnessed yourself doing making mistakes, right? You were called out on one thing. Second thing you're like wait what's happening with me? Right?
Mike:The reason why this is happening is because you juggle in 1000 balls at once, versus one or two Plus you're thinking about, constantly thinking about all these things that are like the puzzles, not fitting, let's just call it that and where you're trying to do that's right and you're not getting the same kind of fulfillment from these things you're doing now as you were before. Yeah, so you're like at a crossroads. I would say like at some kind of point where you know it's making you. You know like you're behaving this way. You know like lack of focus, confuse, not sure where to go from here. You know this purpose question, the focus question yeah, yeah.
Mike:I think that's. I think it's a natural, natural kind of thing that happens as you keep on working on yourself. Self development, yeah.
Katherine:Yeah.
Mike:Yeah.
Katherine:It's been a massive question for me for ever, like what is my purpose? You know like probably on a daily basis. I asked myself that.
Mike:Yeah, well, that was one of the questions I asked myself to a long time ago. Yeah, you know, and I didn't have an answer, and that bothered me for a little bit.
Katherine:Yeah, it's frustrating.
Mike:But, but then when I kind of like go of it, the answer came to me, you know, paradoxical because, but that's because, like, side by side with that, yeah, trying to answer that question or, you know, beating myself about not having to answer, yeah, I was doing things. Yeah, you know, I was removing things and then I was doing things that I wanted to do, that were important to me and whatever. Yeah, so I think that the paths cross where I was like, oh okay, now I understood my purpose, yeah, and there was like it wasn't like a secret or anything like that. Yeah, yeah, it was very you know, it's very interesting.
Mike:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eldar:So does that help it?
Katherine:I mean, I think talking about things always helps. It's something that's on my mind now. Talking about it will always make me feel better. Okay. Yeah, yeah, you never know what you can learn.
Mike:Yeah, one thing about focusing. I can't remember how it relates to, but this came to my mind because we had a topic like two weeks ago or three weeks ago, I think, I told you, as a Kyo Focus is huge here. I think we talked about it like the next day or something, but I think maybe Toi was saying something that he was having trouble focusing on what he was trying to accomplish. Mm-hmm, you know, was it like he was saying, like yo, I'm trying to get healthy, lose weight, and then I go, I do good for a couple of days, and then I, you know, and then I fall off.
Mike:And the thing that came to me is like a lot of times, like probably important for focus is that you have to have very good reasons and why you're doing what you're doing. And a lot of times we deceive ourselves in those reasons because we're buying to our own like emotion or societal things or whatever the reasons are. But those reasons are not good enough. But if you don't, in order to have actual like focus, you have to have good reasons, and those reasons I don't think uh.
Eldar:Yeah, but how does it look? Like good reasons, like I think I understand what you're trying to get to, but in the moment we always give ourselves really good reasons as to why we should do what we do Having the good reasons and actually doing, seeing it through.
Katherine:There's a big gap there.
Mike:But I think to me, the way I'm understanding, is that there has to be an alignment with something bigger than you, alignment with the truth. Let's just call it that, like I don't know, you always like to use those words. I do like to use those words, yeah.
Eldar:Alignment with the truth, yeah.
Speaker 3:You can think through what they are. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, you gotta give concrete steps for some people, man, it's a false.
Katherine:Explain that better, let me try.
Phillip:So what I hear is that when I'm hearing the purpose, what I'm hearing is that if you're a person who's buzzing and then you start to have these realizations which was a topic that we had recently, right so if you're the person who's buzzing, you have the realizations and you're like okay, I want to do this thing. What person is telling you to do those things? I think then you have to kind of dial back and ask how well do you know yourself? And is this actually me, like, is this something that I actually want to do? And then I'd have to ask myself how well do I really know myself? And if I'm the one giving myself advice from the buzzing state, is that the person?
Eldar:Tony has a problem with it all the time.
Phillip:Yeah, Is that the person that's going to keep me buzzing, yeah, or am I actually asking myself what's my internal drivers? How well do I know what actually truly makes me tick? Or is this the thing that's going to keep me going on that path of buzzing? I think before you figure out kind of buzzing, not buzzing, you know, like what's my purpose. I think you have to ask yourself what I found is that I kept asking myself what's my purpose and what I found is that I actually needed to figure out who I was and what I actually like to do, and that's what Mike said too a lot of the times, right yeah, before that, before that, the purpose was actually within that, like your purpose, for example, right now To get to know yourself, to get to know yourself around this problem.
Phillip:That's right. That's enough awareness right here.
Eldar:Yeah, you understand.
Katherine:The impatient side of me I can be very impatient is like like Catherine, you've been doing this for like two to three years now at this point, you know so like there's a part of me is like shouldn't we have figured this out already? Let's see what.
Eldar:I can do. See that again. That's an arrogant statement.
Phillip:Yeah, it is, yeah, but this is what I hear. I hear that like she might be impatient now, but she might be impatient now because she doesn't know this part of herself and she's not being, like you know, patient and loving to that side of her. She might figure out that side, discover the purpose and realize that like she's like like overly patient person, like she might not be impatient. She might be impatient because she's not in touch with that part of herself Correct.
Eldar:Well, that's why you have to raise awareness about that. And it's blocked off. Yeah, well, in this case, right like she's extracting and saying to herself hey, like we've been doing this for years now, like we should have learned this, right, like, there you go. Yeah, I think that somebody told her that after certain years, she should be at a certain place. Yeah, who, who's that? You know what?
Katherine:I mean I'm trying to rush the process. That person needs to be checked. Yeah, 100%.
Eldar:Do you not think that this is a lifelong process? As soon as you say lifelong, all this type of attitude has to go away.
Mike:Well, that's, that's what I'm, that's what I said. If she actually believes, this right?
Eldar:Yeah, you have to like. I mean like Well there's.
Toliy:there's no such thing, then, of being impatient or patient. If you understand that everything is a lifelong kind of thing, right, there's no like, like a, then you, you rid it, you rid yourself from this.
Eldar:Yeah.
Toliy:Then patience is gone.
Eldar:If you're, if you're, under that impression, you no longer have the black and white patient or impatient situation? Yeah, Because you've taken it on. This new attitude is to like no, like everything takes time. This is part of it. I like this process. You bought in and this is your understanding going forward.
Mike:That's what I'm, that's what I said in a very general, broad way of lining with the truth. You know, like you know, like you say, I know that I'm impatient and this is the truth currently. Yeah, and if I'm impatient, I'm not qualified to do certain things, or? Make certain statements.
Phillip:So you know I learned. Yeah, is he trying to take credit for my answer?
Mike:No, he is. Wild back, he's got, he's like all right, he'll put in a nice nice little bouquet. I'm going to run with it.
Eldar:Yeah. I really like we police, we police, I want.
Phillip:Yeah, hit him with a stick.
Toliy:He has to go in jail for like just a couple of seconds.
Eldar:You cannot pass. Go and collect 200. You have to say that to around minimum.
Katherine:He misses $200. Can we play Monopoly? Oh yeah. I would really like to do that Me as well.
Phillip:Yeah, monopoly is a good game All right.
Toliy:That's what you think. Until you play.
Phillip:Monopoly. He's going to hate Monopoly he's absolutely right.
Eldar:Yeah, mike, yeah Okay, if that's the example, that's what I meant, like lining up with the truth is seeing things from what they are Like.
Mike:Yeah, when I was searching for this. Yeah, all the questions that I had he's doubling down yeah, he's doubling down in this very moment.
Eldar:This fucking dumpling is doubling down. He's doubling down. He went to soup dumps in order twice. Yeah, yeah, the two tower fucking dumps. He's sick, yeah.
Mike:It's that lining up with the truth and seeing things from what they are is knowing that you have to be humble, yeah, and that you don't have the answers, yeah, and being vulnerable enough to share and talk about it and raise awareness so that you can get a better understanding of the situation and where you're wrong. Yeah, you know, because a lot of like we're you know not people are. People are susceptible to getting hyped up Like, oh, you see something on TV, you're like yo, I want to be like that, I want to look like that, yeah, I want to run like that, I want to dump like that, yeah. And then that egotistical person comes out yeah, he starts making plans for you. Yeah. And then the real person is like yo who?
Mike:the fuck you think you are my man. Yo, this is dead. Five days, four days, two days, one day, yeah, yeah. No, I'm not a fucking fucker. Yeah, you know. But, and I think that also has some kind of turmoil and we guess that our place, maybe that leads to impatience, yeah, where we're like damn, I tried this so many times, what the fuck.
Eldar:Why am I hitting my head against the same wall?
Phillip:Because that's a good gauge, though, I think, of anything. Any commercial. Anything influences you to that level. I think there should be a good gauge of like hey, I realized that, like this thing can get me to think a certain way and to get me to want to be this thing At such an extreme level, I think that's a good gauge of an empty tank. No, no, like having to go outside so much consistently to realize that like I need this thing, I need that thing, I need this thing, and then there, like these temporary little boost that like you can ride on. And then I think this is what we were associating with buzzing, where, like you get excited, you want to go out, you have like this, like firework type explosion energy, and then, like you dial it back down and like it's this constant ride of like all these things outside of yourself that are getting you to go.
Phillip:But, that's the buzzing slash distraction. That is the buzz. That's what I'm saying. To me, that's like the seed of the buzzing is that, like you don't have that internal driver which is the purpose you don't, you're not in touch with who you are, you don't know what makes you tick, so you are so open to like anything, you're so vulnerable, you're susceptible to any marketing, anything that goes on these extreme. You know everybody talking about. I want to make a lot of money.
Mike:Go to a bad bunny concert you know, do all these things, yeah, at least crazy, these crazy bad bunny, you know what?
Eldar:I'm saying, oh, another concert. Oh, you all got it, yeah, yeah.
Phillip:Hi Hater, like yeah, so like, so like things, that things that, like, you can look forward to, that like to me, the. I guess the way that I would look at it is that, like, if I don't have an involvement in the creation of it and I'm just going to like kind of participate in it, like what level of fulfillment or creativity or like purpose can you have in that thing if you're not really involved in it? Like, are you a consumer of it or are you adding some?
Eldar:value to it. Do you do some baby that's going to be cradled by those people and make money off of you? Right yeah, Like are you going to create your own happiness.
Phillip:Yeah, like. What side do you want Like?
Eldar:if you're just going to make it simple.
Phillip:You're on the consumer side are you on the bringing value and creation side? Wow. So which side do you want?
Mike:Wow, no, no. But the private person is hard for them to be behave out of a different.
Phillip:Yeah, no, it's. There's no judgment on either side. I'm saying there has to be a gauge right, like if we are gauging this like focus and you're breaking down purpose and then who you know. We're trying to break down like or at least this is what it sounds like we're trying to break down a guide, like a simple guide, and I think if it's outside of yourself, it should be like a. There's a measurable kind of idea of I'm going through a commercial, I'm going to somebody outside of myself. I'm basically saying I'm okay with not fulfilling my true purpose. I'm going to allow this person's dream or their focus to then become mine. You automatically look at that point.
Phillip:If you idolizing those people. Yeah, you're automatically losing at that point.
Eldar:Okay Well, Bron James not going to pay your rent.
Mike:Yeah, we can still watch UFC for 100%.
Phillip:You know what I'm saying yeah, watching it is different than, but worshiping it is different, yeah. Allowing this to run your mindset and become a belief system where, like you, could almost run on autopilot.
Eldar:Like yeah, if I'm watching UFC and fighting, you know other fans, because my fight will last. You know what I mean. Like yeah that's, that's bad. Exactly. Yeah, with the people that I really immerse themselves completely, die hard, right, they start writing things you know and like.
Phillip:But don't you think the simple of it would be like a consumer versus a creator.
Eldar:No, yes, you're showing a black and white picture. There's two different sides of it, 100%, and I find myself in the other realm.
Mike:It wouldn't be consumer though.
Phillip:No there's nothing wrong. But I think, for somebody who's looking for their purpose in this, like in this conversation, I think if you're not aware of that side like, and how big of a part of you it is, I think somebody who's a consumer at least somebody like myself, that, like you're fully consumed by this, where, like everything, excited.
Eldar:Like, for example, right, like, for example, catherine's, like hey, like Carol G is going to be here and like I, like I really got to see it, like it's like it's like in my being you know what I mean Like I really need to go see it. It's like you've given away your power and now this you are relying on somebody else to make you up. You know what?
Phillip:I'm saying this is what he's talking about, that to me that's the gauge right. So like, if I'm like yo, I like there's a movie, or like there's a girl, like I got to talk to this like something outside of myself. That's where my mind usually was. I think that's the consumer.
Eldar:You know what this is what he's talking about. The Quran talks about idolizing Idolizing anything outside of yourself. You know what I'm saying? Like it's really a big sin.
Toliy:Yeah.
Katherine:I think Christianity as well.
Toliy:Christianity does it's? Yeah, if I think, for Jews, like the 10 commandments, like you cannot idolize anything except for God.
Katherine:Yeah, there you go Some religions won't even frown upon idolizing a statue of a being.
Eldar:Yeah, even Anastasia talks about this. This is a great sin To give away your power to someone else.
Phillip:So let's say this right. The other example is like if you're somebody who knows themselves and let's say you're like a writer right, and you see something, don't use that as a bad example. Let's say, like a songwriter, right, so you go to maybe an event or you see somebody perform and you gain inspiration and, as a result of that inspiration, you're able to then write maybe your song, right. So I think being inspired and being influenced should be a clear definition Between being influenced and inspired versus fully consuming and letting that other person dictate your thoughts and dependent on that person, because what some people will hear is that, like wait, other people can't influence me. It's like no, no, no, no. What place are you coming from?
Phillip:If you are that person who has their purpose, letting other people be around you and just let them show you what they are, how they think, how they act, what they create, that's different. I'm talking about that person who's like yo. That person thinks in a way where I like so much or I'm going to be able to shut my brain off and whatever they say goes. How many people go to Trump rallies and all this stuff? Shut their brain off and like yo what he said?
Eldar:I agree 100% he's God.
Phillip:These people are shutting their brains off and they have like a herd mentality and they're dangerous people. It gives cult vibes Cool yeah. So just think like again we're going down extreme examples. But they have a place in this world Sure. In America.
Phillip:they always have a place, but yeah, without getting political like there has to be a gauge of like where you're at, and if you are a consumer at this level, it's probably hard to first off. You have to accept it and you have to be willing to be open to that. You're allowing something else to control you and this is why you don't have your purpose and you don't know kind of what you like and what you don't like.
Toliy:Yeah, it sounds like if you're trying to do the things the right way, it sounds like you should be more in the mindset of like being like a leader of something, or if you're going to follow only follow the truth. That's possible, yeah. Yeah exactly, yeah, and everything else.
Katherine:That sounded big like what Mike just said.
Eldar:Yeah, I know, I know he built on that, though, yeah.
Katherine:But think about it, you know.
Eldar:It's hard.
Katherine:Yeah. And think about how many people actually have the right circle, the right surroundings the right to boost you up and tell you how it is To guide you, and that A lot of people, most people, don't have that Most people don't have healthy relationships like in general.
Eldar:You know 100%, so to know that path, I mean, the easiest trick in the book, at least for a healthy relationship, for example, that I'm using all the time right, is to remind Catherine of Catherine. A lot of times she's like doubting herself, like hey, like not a good wife, I'm not good this, and stuff like that. I'm like the basic thing that I need is for you to love me, and you love me pretty well. I have no complaints about that. You try your best and that's what it is. She forgets that. You know what I mean? She has a superpower already installed. It's like it's already in me, pre-programmed. Yeah, you're already pre-programmed for that. As we, as humans, we are all special and we have this ability to be kind to one another, compassionate, give each other something right, really be good friends, loyal, know this other shit. We can really illuminate all these different virtues and I have to always remind her of like yeah, like you love me, like you already, like this is great. She forgets that because she's bought in to somebody else's program to tell you that you got to look a certain type of way. You got to. You know weigh a certain amount, you know you have to have a job and you have to have dinner on table at eight o'clock for your husband to be a good wife by definition.
Eldar:We never sat down and said what does a good wife make up? Because I'm in this fucking relationship but some other fuckers out there is dictating how my wife behaves. We didn't even have a conversation about this shit, like what the fuck is happening. I tell her yo, you're stressing about fucking food. I don't want to stress the wife for food. I don't need this shit. You know what I mean. We're privileged enough to be able to buy food that tastes pretty good outside of you stressing and making it Like I don't like this. You know what I'm saying. But somebody told her you know out there that the dinner should be ready by eight o'clock when the husband arrives to be a good wife. We didn't agree with this.
Katherine:Can we invite my mom into this conversation?
Eldar:Well sure, your mom did it yeah.
Katherine:It's been passed on, but it's never been challenged right.
Eldar:Yeah, like you challenged some of your behaviors. Right, like yo, a lot of people told me like y'all got to walk this off or this food and those other stuff, and now you have a better relationship with some of the things that you're doing because you're no longer subscribed to the fucking status quo.
Phillip:Yeah, but so, so, yeah, so I agree that. So, when Kat was saying it's difficult to understand, like what it is, and to have to have a certain circle, I do agree with that. But where I think it becomes like where you can actually start to open up, is you have to realize that you caused all of it. Yeah, so, if you don't, if you don't go back and you have to, you know, you have to, you know, go back and you have to go through all of it, and you said, okay, I had this relationship, I was at this job, I was in this relationship. All this happened, whatever it is, even if you got taken advantage of, whatever it may be, you, you allowed this other behavior to happen because maybe you, if you didn't, if you didn't cause it, you bought it. Yeah, you bought it, exactly. So, either way it doesn't matter.
Phillip:Whatever happened to you. You bought into it, you let it happen, or you weren't smart enough or strong enough or didn't know yourself, and everything that you got was exactly what you should have got.
Eldar:Yeah so to me.
Phillip:Once you believe that, and you think that that's true, then you can say oh shit, I did this and I'm a total idiot and that's what was totally was talking about. You have to call yourself an idiot, yeah. You have to believe that you're an idiot. You have to believe this, yeah.
Katherine:That you have to let go of the ego and say I'm an idiot. You have to humble yourself. That also is like difficult for not the weas but, like you know, think of the attachment we.
Phillip:But you know, in general, but think of the attachments that you have to, that it's going to be probably your mom, it's going to be your dad's, going to be your sister, it's going to be all people that you're close to. And you have to in your head, say like damn, some of these people were wrong and I allowed them to be wrong to me. And then you have to start to like, create your own path, and you might. You might create separation to the people or you're like you almost don't have like changing.
Katherine:Yeah, you have a different rules.
Phillip:I had a different rule set towards my mom, my dad and like my family, like where I was. Like wait, they're separate from how I perceive maybe the truth, or I perceive myself or things that I like, but they, whatever they say, kind of goes because like they're the parents and they were the older people when you're growing up there's a weird at least for me there's like a weird dynamic. When you're growing up, you just listen, you just listen, you didn't really question. So then I realized, like as I got older, this translated into jobs where I'm like to challenge somebody in a job and a sales setting. I can't do it. Same, because I never did it. The same, so now I'm like wait, I didn't count to the same issue.
Phillip:So now I'm like wait, I never did it when I was little, so now I have a realistic expectation of like I shouldn't be doing this because I never did it before in my life. Why would I just start to do it randomly now? What are the steps to kind of get there? And then it's like wait, I have to start to challenge my mindset towards all the things that I'm doing. Why I didn't call myself an idiot.
Phillip:All my perceptions were off about very important things that I was attached to, and he said I'm the most arrogant person that I ever met.
Eldar:And now he's going to say it to you, and I never thought I was arrogant.
Phillip:When I heard arrogant. I always pointed to, like kids, like guys, like you know examples of, maybe people that I mentioned. Yeah, it's like this, and then I'm like wait. And then I started to look up the definition of arrogant and I'm like, oh fuck, like damn, like I'm arrogant, like that's bad Because I always pointed to other people, I'm like they're arrogant and I'm like wait like when, when you point, I noticed for myself. When I point so hard at somebody else for something, I'm kind of getting it off my chest without allowing myself to call me arrogant.
Phillip:That's very, very difficult. Of course, if he didn't start to point it out, I would have never associated myself with being arrogant, but now I started to slowly let it get like for me with humor. It's nice because like it's not like just pointing the finger, like he'll do it, He'll be serious, and then like there'll be a joke and I'm like, oh damn, like he's kind of serious, though, and it's it and it kind of simmers a little bit and he puts like his little chef bag on me like he kind of cooks it a little.
Eldar:Yeah, it's nice. Well listen, this was a moment where totally was getting some flowers, so I'm going to click a button of applaud. People can applaud. If it doesn't happen, just picture that it was applauded Excellent being applauded. But thank you for that ramble, Philip. I wish I could say I agree with it. I actually do. No, I didn't that was a good ramble, yeah.
Toliy:In your non-coherent reply the whole time. Thank you for making everyone domer. You get awarded no points.
Eldar:So, babe, exciting, or what? Yeah, is it confusing?
Toliy:That's more scary.
Katherine:first, it's always scary, first Because there's just a lot going on for me, and then you know talking about it and understanding it.
Eldar:I mean, listen, I'm going to tell you right now, I'm going to give you an alley-up or a little bit of a pass.
Katherine:Yeah, you know it's. You know it's a work in progress.
Eldar:If you leave this conversation or any type of conversation, where you dive a little bit deeper than you usually do and the one thing that you've gotten from it is the question of where do I start? That's already good, like I don't know. That's already good, right yeah, this is like, oh shit, like I don't know. I actually don't know. That's a very good start. Like Mike had an epiphany where he said who am I? Like what the fuck.
Katherine:But this I don't know constantly can be like I can process it like negatively. That's the thing.
Toliy:But I think you have to ask yourself why do you think that, why do you process that negatively?
Katherine:I want to find, like that thing that I'm going to be happy doing is something that inspires me and makes me feel good that I get up and like I feel good about doing whatever that is. You know I crave that you know.
Toliy:So how do you know that that's what you actually want to feel like? That's actually what's happening.
Katherine:What do you mean?
Toliy:Like you're saying that it sounds like a bad thing to not know, but on the other hand, you do crave so much to know, right, that's what you're saying.
Katherine:I guess yeah.
Toliy:Right Another, yeah, yeah. So my question is how do you know that that's like what's actually like playing out?
Katherine:I'm confused.
Mike:Are you saying how she knows that she's right about what she's saying?
Toliy:Yeah, like well, on one hand she's saying that she has a problem with saying I don't know many times. Yeah, she has a problem with saying I don't know, but then she's saying that, but then, on the other hand, I want to find out. So bad.
Eldar:That's like confirming that she doesn't know.
Katherine:I know that I don't know and I want to keep learning more, like, I guess, about myself, about what's going on with me. I want to keep on growing, I guess, but I think that, like trying to find a purpose and find something fulfilling in my life and not knowing what it is, for example, up until recently, if people would ask me if I like, hey, do you have any hobbies? I wouldn't even have one. I wouldn't even know because I never even took the time to develop or maybe a skill or something that I liked or I just never did that, but what's an example of a purpose?
Toliy:Are there different purposes?
Katherine:I guess would you say, fulfillment and purpose are the same.
Toliy:No.
Mike:They're not, you're maybe able to draw fulfillment from your purpose.
Eldar:Well, I actually want to go back to what Phillip was saying. Right, that again a person is looking for their purpose, right? And Phillip's like wait a second, we're not even up to that point yet. The purpose right now is actually to know that you don't know. Yeah, but that is the purpose right. What I hear.
Phillip:Yeah, what I hear is totally asking that question, and it's to me it sounds like your expectations are really really high for something that you're not ready to go to go with the purpose.
Eldar:That's right.
Phillip:To me. See, you're saying at one hand you don't know, but I think if you truly didn't know, then the actual purpose would kind of like fall to the side and then you truly become like a student and be like yo, but you are something still telling yourself, yeah.
Phillip:And then that's saying, yo, I need to get the purpose so bad that it's actually preventing you from getting the purpose. Attachment, there's attachment. And that attachment like, once you get that down, then you're going to be willing to learn all the things that are going to give you the skills to like tap into yourself and then you'll get the purpose.
Eldar:Your students doing really good. Yeah, your students doing good.
Katherine:Yeah, that was broken down.
Toliy:Good yeah, because it sounds like the exact state that you right now want is that I don't know state and actuality.
Eldar:You actually want that.
Toliy:But then, on the other hand, you're saying that this is a bad thing.
Eldar:But it doesn't sound like that, because the relationship that she has with the I don't know state I don't know, I don't know, it's not good. Nobody says this.
Phillip:Yeah, nobody says this all the time? Who says this? Oh, I want to, I don't know yeah.
Eldar:It's fucking weird as shit. Yeah, yeah, nobody says this, yeah, yeah.
Toliy:But that's what I'm saying is that on one hand, she's saying that she doesn't know, and she has to say it's not with a negative state, but the other side is saying but I'm craving so much to find out, yeah, which to me are like yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a contradiction because, like, if you wanted to find out that bad, then you would be okay with it, I'm not knowing. No, not even okay. You would be thrilled to not know, because now the next step is to know.
Mike:But the prerequisite for that to go, to go into that state, is a very difficult one, and it's there's no, I'm not sure if there's like a, like a instruction how to get there. What you're asking for is humility.
Eldar:What you're asking for is a break you need, you're looking for. You need to get to a point of break. Your ego needs to break to you to genuinely say I don't know, believe it and be okay with it.
Toliy:And then act accordingly. Yeah.
Eldar:Because right now, because right now all your actions and everything else speak otherwise.
Mike:You're saying you don't know, but you are still like correct.
Toliy:Yeah, you're still doing your stuff, yeah, and there might be I mean I'm not sure, but there might be also like a misperception of like this purpose thing. Right, because like, at least for me, when I think of like purpose, I almost think that we all have the same purpose.
Eldar:You have to expand on it, but I do. I know where you're going and I agree with that Like.
Toliy:So it's not a thing where it's like you need to find what it is. I think that like, like I think I know what it is right now, but like the way that I feel like people talk about it is almost like they have to like it's outside of them. Yeah, it's either outside of them or it's something that, like they need to figure out what's their purpose, where I think that we all here share, like our purposes, the same.
Katherine:So I feel like it's like a chasing of it Now being like you're not 100% content, right, when you feel like something is missing or something you know it comes from that? I think it comes from, maybe like some still unhappiness 100%.
Eldar:Yeah, but unhappiness comes from from having these delusions about the world, about yourself and how you fit in that, in that puzzle. I have to remind you, I have to remind her that she's enough. You understand, you're her. She doesn't understand. Like, oh, I'm a human being. I don't have the ability to love. I love like we have a good dynamic and that's enough. Like, how's that possible? She doesn't believe me.
Mike:You know what I'm saying, well, the thing is a lot. Yeah, I think this is a you know thing is that you may know the truth but actually genuinely believing it, connecting that is a very hard thing. Yes, you know, like everybody here can agree, I hope that lying, stealing, is a bad thing, right. But then believing it and acting your courtings with it towards others and towards yourself is not an easy task. That's right, you know, and what's required is probably humility, but also calling yourself out in those moments where you're not being good to yourself and really like really seeing it for what it is, like one thing that I was going through when I was working.
Mike:I just remember vividly, or more vividly than anything, is the patience thing. I've always been very impatient and when I was looking for my purpose, I was like I don't know if you remember you were getting frustrated, yes, and you were saying, yo, you're being too hard on yourself, you know, with certain things. And I was like I was kept being impatient and then, when I got more, brought more and more awareness to it again, not by keeping it inside, but also talking about it, humbling myself, allowing myself to be a fool in front of other people. That made me then, when I'm on my own, say, hey, I'm in pain right now because of this impatience that I put on myself.
Eldar:Okay, so there you go. I think it's a very good point. You've slowed down enough and raised enough awareness to be able to feel pain. That's always been there, but you've never paid attention to it, absolutely Okay. Yes, so that's the practice of self love. Yeah, and that was the purpose for that specific moment. You know what I'm saying.
Eldar:And I think that in different stages of our life, I think that is that right Self love first, before external love to others. You cannot give anybody anything if you or yourself is depleted. Yes, yeah, you can, but not in a sustainable way.
Mike:You know what I mean it's not healthy, not sustainable, Correct?
Eldar:right. So you were at that stage where you've come to realize that the purpose was actually it was bigger than that was just self love, right? Yeah, through being patient with yourself, understanding that look the things that I do and the way I move I actually hurt myself. Yeah, I think this is the same thing goes here, but it also helps.
Eldar:That is the purpose, the purpose for you is to find out how to have self love towards yourself. There's nothing externally out there right now for you. You have to be internal with yourself and then, when you filled yourself up, you will know what to do without energy externally.
Toliy:Yeah, because like this chase is like a like a second invisible chase, Like you're chasing something or someone that doesn't actually exist.
Katherine:It doesn't exist.
Toliy:So you just find yourself going into circles, maybe trying different things, but like there was nowhere to go to begin with and like, for me at least, I feel that everyone's universal purpose is to, I guess like one find out like the truth about things and find out how to align with it, to learn. And then everything else branches from there, like how to do this, like what to do there, of like learning like humility, or like learning like respect or like Well, discovering truth about yourself and the world so then, you can live in accordance with truth, because when you live in accordance to truth, it feels good.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah To me like that's the only purpose of life, cause you cannot do anything else long lasting, and like fulfilling outside of that, like that's guaranteed fulfillment forever. But it's not like just like one thing, it's like you figuring out the truth and then again, yeah, aligning with it in all the different parts of your life.
Eldar:So then the quotes like service is service makes sense. Doesn't matter what you do. If you had a gas station, wiping windows, windshield windows for people, right, service is service, you're servicing. Or you're going with the dog to the thing Nothing's bigger, nothing's greater or you're writing plays or books on Broadway. Service is service. Then you understand that, so you're able to tap into what your internal self to then influence the external, which then goes back to creation of what he's talking about. Creating versus consuming, so two different things.
Toliy:Yeah, there's no like hobby or thing that you could find. I think at least that will like be able to satisfy in the way that you're trying to be satisfied, unless you go down this path.
Eldar:I think this is impossible for anyone. Yeah, you're going to keep.
Mike:There's nothing that exists, that is actually a found, yeah, and never ending. Found besides this, besides your own, mind, there's nothing else, yes, correct. And when you believe it, understand it, yes, and convinced of it, yes. Then you can forever tap into it, always tap into it when you're lining up.
Toliy:Yeah. So I think that, like you never need to like almost like find your purpose. You have to just figure out how to like align with it almost 100%. There's nothing to look for here.
Eldar:I agree, I think that's a big, probably misconception. I think that if people understood what you said and everything that we just said, they can liberate themselves from the suffering. Yeah, yeah.
Toliy:Yeah, but, but the attachment is crazy.
Toliy:Yeah, but again, like, maybe part of the first step is like concepts, like self love, because it's like we can all look back on our lives and like see, like as far as we can remember, we have all kinds of instances of like we probably all agree that like we learned all kinds of different concepts, habits, how things worked, maybe in moments where we didn't have like a thinking mind Right, and like we extracted a long time ago all that information that like lives with us still today.
Toliy:So, like, if we agree with that and we understand that, then like the way that we are and the like the things that we produce and just like the way of living we have, like it makes sense and it's okay, yeah, you know, like it's completely fine. It's not like like it's not like a surprise hit or like why this happened. This happened because I don't know if the answer is like we were guided wrong or like what, but yeah and like I guess like in like a way, yeah, we were probably guided wrong and we were influenced in particular ways that shaped how we act now. But if we acknowledge that, I think that we can change the way that we think about things now or like the way that we go about things now, but part of self love is probably to acknowledge that like that happened and not like that you're a bad person or something like that. I got it you know I got it.
Eldar:I got the universal purpose for all humans to discover your own power as a human.
Toliy:And that's a general statement that we're comfortable with making.
Eldar:Because we just we came up with a general statement based on this conversation. Well, no, but it's the truth about things. Well, yeah, sure.
Katherine:But there was a we in it.
Eldar:Right, oh, no, totally. You like it or no? Yeah, I do like it. We've been marketed to, we've been told by our moms and dads you gotta be this type of wife to be good. What? Okay, let me do this. You know what I mean.
Katherine:I mean even like just to reinforce that. Like you know, she comes to stay with us, you know, twice a month, yeah. And she's, you know, and she's seeing how I'm living and what I'm doing and she's in New York. We gotta do that and you gotta do this, and you know this and that and what you know, like it's constant, like she's constantly drilling with this stuff. And some of it sticks 100%.
Eldar:I think an important thing is that that is why you have to become a challenger of what Phillip was saying, because a lot of stuff doesn't make sense that we don't challenge. We eat it up and next thing we know we're infected by it. You know, I know, by somebody else's understanding, which is incorrect. Plus, it's not like your mom has been in a 50 year marriage, successfully happy you know what I mean and now she's given us fucking good game.
Katherine:At this point. Even someone who's been in a marriage for 50 years doesn't make them you know, even knowing of that. Yeah, exactly.
Phillip:So what I found is that, like on a step by step, is that you're talking about like the infection, right, like when you actually think of it like an infection, like if you're like a computer, like software. You're like infected, say like by other people's thoughts, and you let them in once you do have the acceptance, and then you do let other things in. We're talking about pain and like I'm somebody that like is definitely like in touch and like I'll feel pain, like in my body, you're like pain, right, oh, I love it. And I found that when you do accept it, there's a whole nother layer and it actually is pretty scary that when you do actually take the time and you're quiet with yourself, you feel all the pain physically.
Phillip:It, like I was telling you, like in my back and like mind, and those kind of things.
Phillip:So, once you accept it, when it keeps coming back is when you're in denial, because you're like why do I have this pain?
Phillip:Like why me, why do I have this? And when you're saying why me and you're coming from, like a victim, like I don't know why I have this, you, it keeps coming back as you're denying the source of where it's coming from, which is yourself. So then when you do admit that you do have the acceptance and then I did sit with it, I felt the same pain, but then it started to simmer for whatever reason. But I think that their meaning or the reason is because you did admit that you knew that it was coming from yourself and that pain you don't have to sit with anymore because that was actually the root of it was you were lying to yourself the whole time, right, like, so that pain to me was coming from me, denying that I actually did it to myself. I was under the impression everybody else was doing this and I was asking why me? Like it shouldn't be happening to me, but it actually should have been.
Phillip:And the reason that it actually stopped was when I realized what the actual truth was, which is what you guys were talking about to me, which was once you align with the truth. The truth was, I did this to myself, so I'm sitting with myself. That pain's there, but it's still uncomfortable, and I don't think you're allowed to get out of it without feeling uncomfortable, because to me, you deserve that. You put yourself through it, so you should have to feel that, but you did it now with actually knowing why, and then, from that point on, then you can move on and then be open to other people, maybe giving you advice.
Eldar:That's very powerful right, but it has a lot to unpack. Yeah, that's very powerful, I think.
Phillip:Yeah, but my point is that there has to be steps, because once there's acceptance, to me it's not just like okay, then everything starts to come about. That pain, it's like all the baggage that you got from all the decisions that you made, from being delusional and not being correct.
Katherine:Totally you've been carrying your life you physically to me.
Phillip:You physically store that in your body. You manifest that with it. It's inside of, like wherever it's in your head, your back, it can create diseases, whatever it may be. So to me, that thing that's inside of you, it's inside of you and it can't come out until you actually align with the truth and the truth can actually to me, I think it's like a medicine where it can actually heal you.
Eldar:Yeah, yeah, oh, I agree with you, man.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah, wow. So I think that to me it's like once you associate a mental and like a truth with like a mental and then like a physical release. I think a lot of people, once they have physical ailments, they almost push out like the okay, yeah, hear what you're saying, I get that I can change my mindset. Like I have to go with a doctor because I'm really sick. That's right.
Phillip:And some people are like, wait, I have to separate my mental all the decisions I'm making with, like me going to the doctor and trusting some other guy. Again, that's going outside of yourself. Yeah, no, okay, maybe I have to get some surgeries, maybe there's some things that are. Thank you for that disclaimer for some.
Eldar:Yeah okay sure, yeah for some sure.
Phillip:Yeah, but for the most part I think most of these mental illnesses that add up and they accumulate to like these kind of feelings of like pain and pressure inside of your body, I think a lot of them can start from the mental.
Eldar:Well, yeah, I think that and Anastasia talked about this too that all the ailments, all the you know these are little indicators that we're living not in accordance to the truth. Yeah, Right, and as soon as we do realign ourselves right, the headaches go away, the back pain goes away, this goes away. Next thing, you know, you're like, oh shit, A lot of times we don't, we don't know how to properly associate it with it, right, but if we track back, I think he's 100% right.
Phillip:I think that but that's the dilute, isn't so wouldn't that be accurate? If somebody is living a life that as delusional in thought wouldn't being delusional about the pain inside of your body, then be a perfect match, 100%. It's like it's perfect 100%.
Eldar:Yeah, it makes sense. That's why a lot of times I challenge Catherine, because Catherine is all about Western medicine, where a lot of times she's like you all have this and that's it, like you gotta go fix me. You know what I mean?
Phillip:Well, you guys challenged me on this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, yeah, food pimples and all the correlations I was making a lot of different correlations.
Mike:Sleep remember the eye mask thing and all that stuff, like I stopped doing ocean anacondas, yeah.
Phillip:So I made a lot of those correlations and like now that I have a different relationship with food and do more sleep. Yeah, I feel good, like I can have a beer right now and I feel good, or like if I did it before then I would probably punish myself the next day where I have to walk like double the time. Yeah, make up for it. Yeah. Now I might sit home and maybe I'll do nothing.
Eldar:I don't know Age old argument of smoking really bad for you. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, or that conversation we had with Ossley Drink your fucking coffee, enjoy your fucking coffee, because the benefit of you sitting down, taking the time for yourself to make your coffee, to treat yourself, the self-love that you're giving yourself within that moment is greater than fucking any toxins that's in fucking coffee. Yeah, that's not good for you.
Eldar:But that might be. But even science, fucking you know, one day coffee is really good and the next day it's not good. Yeah, you know what the fuck? That is a reason for that, the reason, the variables and everything skews all the time. Milk is good one day, milk is not good on the other day. It's a fucking mental. It's a mental.
Mike:They can't fucking.
Eldar:Yeah, they cannot. That's the person.
Phillip:Yeah, but I also think we always talk about this. It's the stress and it's not quantified Like weight and ounces and like these actual numbers. Where like people like stress is this we always talk about this? But I keep bringing it up because it's very important Like people talk about, like weight, and they talk about things and again, a cigarette is outside of yourself To me. How much can a thing outside of myself Like people talk about you know what is it called? What's it called when you know people are saying the nature is like gonna come against us? What's it called Armageddon?
Mike:No.
Phillip:Planet of the Apes. No, like the natural climate, like rain and all that Climate change.
Mike:Yeah, yeah yeah.
Eldar:Climate change. Believers, you know what I'm saying. Oh, wait, wait, I got you. Global warming, global warming, right. So people that talk about this right.
Phillip:So like if we're all in nature, right, we're all on a planet, you know like all that. So like if you're basically saying, like all these outside things are like eventually going to like get me, like at what point are you holding yourself accountable? And like how important are the internal decisions that you make and how important are the outside ones? And I think that's the extreme example of like you're on the in the environment that you're talking about, like is everything else outside of you more important than the inside thing that you're thinking? And I think the inside thing can overcome a cigarette, it can overcome McDonald's and all that and global warming.
Phillip:Global warming like to me like all of these are extreme examples of, like it's just little roadblocks that I'm allowing myself to attach to to just say, oh yeah, you know what it's that thing, it's not me, it's that thing, it's not me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's just an easy escape for people to not have to look within again. And not have to answer the real question and focus on themselves. There you go. That's what we're talking about Focusing on what actually matters, in aligning with the truth of yourself.
Eldar:The ability to focus sounds like a gift that keeps on giving. And not everybody is leveled up for it to get from it.
Mike:The way I'm saying it. Focus is you have to have good enough reasons, right, and I'm talking about reasons that are has to be rooted in the truth. So like living in accordance with the truth, living and aligning over the truth. That's a superpower. I think most people would feel like it's a very difficult thing, especially if you've got other things that you're trying to accomplish, like get rich and famous.
Phillip:You know you don't get time for this, but if you Do you think it's only difficult if you have a conflicting belief? 100%.
Eldar:Yeah, it has to be conflicting beliefs.
Phillip:Yeah, so it's only difficult to me An internal problem has to happen with conflicting beliefs. Yeah, you have to have something else that is opposing you from then doing that thing.
Mike:Well, the other side is too many reasons. It's so much easier to do, you know, yeah To not do the right thing.
Eldar:Okay, so now we're gonna go and segment to Toli's questions from earlier today. Toli, you can pose it now about becoming successful, while what?
Toliy:Becoming successful. While what Is it possible?
Eldar:to become successful and and have balance.
Toliy:There you go. What is that? This is what we're talking about, right? Yeah, definition of successful. A lot of times well, yeah, one second.
Eldar:Yeah, A lot of times where we're talking about just now, right, yeah, you were focusing on one thing, but everything else kind of like get sidetracked or whatever you know, making, like you said, making money or whatever, you got no time for self-development. What are we talking about here? Yeah. He posed a question about is it possible right To be successful? Let's just say, in the craft, whatever the craft that you're pursuing right, but also have balance in your other endeavors. Right, yeah, but what is?
Mike:yeah, like the question that first came to me when you guys started talking about it in the morning right Is what does success mean? Like, how does it look like? Living a like examine life. Is that successful or no?
Eldar:I think totally. When you talk about success, you're talking about how the world general public views success, right, Well, yeah, like probably on those individual things.
Mike:Yeah, so if that's, if we're talking about, like, let's just use the example Michael Jordan and basketball, right?
Eldar:Everybody agrees here in the room that Michael Jordan was a successful basketball player. Right, he was great to go. Yeah, this is an easy one, right. Yeah.
Mike:Like that kind of success is possibly balance.
Eldar:He's asking whether or not you can have that with a balance good life.
Toliy:Just like why I was asking this because, like lots of times when I hear conversations around this, people acknowledge that it takes like you know, that it requires like obsession or being like a little bit psychotic or being like yeah.
Mike:Yo that word.
Toliy:That word yeah.
Mike:That's always right.
Toliy:Yes, I'm gonna tell this one.
Toliy:Yeah, right, like it requires particular things where, like, the person almost has to be like a little bit nuts to get to that level. Yet people are trying to like emulate that or maybe have goals of like achieving those different things. Right, like you always hear players saying, oh yeah, I want to be the greatest of all time, right, or Connor's here saying he's not here to take part, he wants to take over, yeah, like all those different kinds of things. But yeah, my question was that, like, can you achieve that level, I guess, of what people are talking about as success in those different crafts, while having a balance in the rest of your life and not punch an old man in the Irish bar?
Phillip:Correct. So I think it's interesting where, like somebody in a sport right, like you're competitive and you're trying to beat somebody else, I think it's very, very difficult to try to remain balanced when you're trying to overcome or beat somebody else. The other example we're talking about this in my class now, so I'm doing the film, the acting class and I think the other example would be if you're in a collaborative space and everybody is trying to help each other and add value to create something, where I'm not trying to beat you, it's actually in my benefit to help you.
Phillip:To add benefit to me, so then we can create something and we're all going to benefit more In a competitive sport. I think it's like you're almost signing up for imbalance, because in order for you to win and then be considered the best, you have to stand on somebody else's head and look down on them and then be like yo I beat you In some cases, I'm literally beating you down in UFC.
Phillip:In other cases like I'm just beating you down and beating you by points in Michael Jordan's case, and he is known for being the best because he's a killer and he wanted to embarrass everybody else. So I think when you're talking about the things and these qualities, you're physically beating somebody up, you're looking down on somebody else and you're being praised for this thing. You're attaching success to that and that, to me, breeds the delusion that we are all talking about now. So it's to me, just because you have the finance attached to it, I think it probably makes it harder for you to get out of that thing, opposed to somebody who's starting maybe from the ground floor they didn't get into. Maybe whatever profession they're getting into, they're not getting paid for it. That's probably easier for that person to have the realization that.
Toliy:the delusion, like that and then like what goes into my head, is that, like I have different goals for different things, right? Or like people have different goals for different things. Have they ever thought about like, does this align? Like? Does this align with the rest of the balance that I'm trying to achieve? Right, like, for example, like, if I wanna be like an overall good person at sales, what does that look like? Am I comparing it to like what I see when I watch Wolf of Wall Street? Am I like? What measure of like?
Toliy:Have I thought about a measure of success that like this is actually what I want and this is actually what I'd like to do because I'll be successful here and then that'll also give me balance, for example, in something else? Or like, like ways of like you know what I'm saying Like ways of looking at that. Or like, for example, working out do I go for a morning session and then a night session? Do I go twice a day and spend four or five hours there, right like? Is that, for example, sustainable? Is that doable? Will that like get what I'm actually looking for? Or what will actually do?
Toliy:Will it help me achieve something potentially faster, but not allow me to enjoy it for the long term, or not be like sustainable enough, right, but the issue that I see is that I think in general, people will jump to like having these kind of goals and desires, but they don't consider how the other pieces or yeah, like how the other pieces in their life will kind of form together in like accordance with these.
Eldar:So then they won't pass your definition of success, then right, because then you probably defining it as more like, okay, cool, like there's this little area of success you've achieved, but also that's not where life ends, right? No, yeah to me, you still have to live, you know.
Toliy:Yeah to me, success is when, like those, two marry. Yeah, yeah. Like when you're successful individually and all the different things, for example, that you do, and then you're successful as a whole, when those things work like in harmony Together, where you have balance, it's not just like okay, like you're good at like business things, but then like you suck as like a person right, like that's not success, okay.
Phillip:Yeah, but that person right in this example.
Eldar:Everybody has a subjective view of success.
Toliy:Yes, but nobody will consciously say that like, hey, I do want to get really rich and I want to be a huge piece of shit. Yeah, nobody right.
Katherine:Like that would be a goal I want. But how did this topic connect with what we were talking about before? How did you bring that in?
Phillip:Success and balance. Balance that's how it was okay, balance.
Eldar:Yeah, he wanted to know. He posed that question and I think it does connect because, again, we talked about the different you know our lives, where we do something on one end, right, but we're still a piece of shit on the other.
Katherine:Well, doing one thing right and then other things are wrong.
Eldar:Correct. Yeah, so it's like it's all over the place. It's a mishmash of things. Are we really not our consistent selves and I think totally he's talking about consistency, right and self or your values, or your belief systems, your virtues, right, all across the board, of all different, let's just say, practices of life?
Toliy:Yeah, and I think that's true success.
Eldar:That's true success, right, but for a lot of people not necessarily right, because, like, at least our society values, let's just say, lots of money, power, fame, right. And then, okay, like, yeah, michael Jordan, for example, hit that right, but on a totally scale. He also values friendships, right, and it sounds like Michael Jordan didn't make a lot of friends. Let's just say For example yeah. Based on all the details that we do know about what transpired yeah, but is success or is balance?
Mike:is it a moment in time or is it like never ending? How does that work, or they?
Eldar:like, while we're alive, obviously. Well, yeah, you hope, so, you hope to experience success. But I think people do want to reach balance.
Mike:Is it just always stay balanced or is it success? Won't you reach success? Is it always stay success? Is it something that you constantly gotta do?
Toliy:Yeah, it's something that's like an ongoing effort, like it's a lifelong thing and in connection with that, I think that a lot of people, I think, when they're either creating goals or we're thinking about things to do, I think we often make ourselves believe that we're actually robots and we don't actually believe that we're humans. So I think what happens is that you could go on whatever quest you want to go on, but you as a human, as an individual, you have particular needs and you operate a very particular way. You're like a type of animal that operates in a very particular way and you need certain things. No matter what quest that you go upon, you're going to always still come back to those kinds of needs. That's gravity, yeah, like you need happiness, you need fulfillment, you need food, for example, you need social relationships. It's like social interactions.
Toliy:Yeah, like you need to have success in those kinds of things, and that's what I was trying to say before, almost is that no matter what quest that you go upon, oftentimes you'll go about in a way where you feel that you're just like a program, you're just going to download this software and just go, and that this is going to work out for you. But you don't consider that, those variables, that we all want the same thing.
Eldar:OK, thank you, I got it. I got it. Now I know the definition of success mic for you.
Eldar:If you ask me about it. How does it look like? I think it looks like acknowledgment of those things, application of those things into the world, balancing all of them like a balancing beam. However, success is the next level of having those things, practicing those things in second nature, without thinking about it. It's been conditioned and I think we talked about that.
Eldar:As soon as you focus, you might need to focus first, to pay attention about it. There's certain things you're learning right now, around the office, for example. Right now you need to focus. I don't need to focus on those things. I can do them second nature, like I can get this done from this, this from this. I'm extracting that. That's my truth already. It's already truth. That's what I get. For you, you need to focus. For me now it's that as soon as you get to the point of second nature, it's just clicking and you're staying on that. Success If those things are implemented, like you said, naturally you have social interactions that you're happy with. They come to you as second nature now. Before, for example, you didn't. You've ran into things where you felt disrespected, that you felt like you didn't have enough boundaries and stuff like that.
Eldar:If you finally stroked our balance where you found yourself and you know how to do it and it comes to you easy now, for your parents, for example, that is success. And then now apply that onto the world and other things at work, with friends, with your girlfriend.
Mike:Well, I think then, what you're saying is success, only success, when it's balanced.
Eldar:When it's consistently second nature everywhere.
Toliy:No success is balanced. It's not only when it's balanced. That's the only way. I think that it can be.
Eldar:OK sure Success is balanced.
Toliy:Yeah, and again. Go on a quest. Go, make as much money as you want. What are you going to experience? Human quality is like what? Loneliness, yeah. Lack of purpose.
Phillip:Yeah, this is the Jim Carrey example. You have no happiness, you have to go out and do these things and then realize that this is not what it is Correct Because you're so attached to what. It is the only way to figure it out in these examples is to prove you delusion wrong. Prove that delusion wrong with action. Yeah, but in.
Toliy:What I'm saying is that the magnet of being a human will always bring you back every time, no matter what choices that you make, because you're going to eventually be drawn back into a particular feeling of something that you lack in, that is, a human need. These are all human needs, right? And no matter what you choose to do, you'll always be drawn back to those things, because you're an animal that has a particular makeup and that requires certain things, and for some rather than others, it might take a lifetime for you to go out and chase that thing, yeah.
Eldar:Yeah.
Toliy:Right, right, but you'll always return to your humanness almost Right Like what you are and who you are.
Eldar:You can't run away from your self-esteem saying and no matter what you do, no matter what plans you think you're going to make, in your head right, there's a very specific makeup of you as a essential human being that is going to be serving as gravity pole, a magnet to bring you back to where you're supposed to be, and that thing, I think part of it, is being a thinker.
Toliy:What happens, naturally, when you work too much or you exercise too much, what happens regardless? Pain, regardless Pain.
Eldar:Pain.
Toliy:And then, what do you need?
Mike:Reflection time. You need the opposite. You need rest, rest, right.
Toliy:Is that something that you have a choice and know, like when you're tired, you're just tired, right, like you can't do anything about it?
Eldar:That's right.
Toliy:You could try to take caffeine or something like that to delay it, but you're tired, your eyes will close. That is a human response, right, when you think about a robot or a computer or a program, you could just tell it to run something. As long as it's powered, it does not get tired, it does not have those kinds of things. That's why a human is very different from a robot. It does not need rest, it doesn't need friendship, it doesn't need support, it doesn't need love and different things like that.
Eldar:But when we set out to do these different, things, but some people try to mimic and become a robot, like Yvonne.
Toliy:Yeah, exactly Like we operate, like we think that we are.
Eldar:We said, dennis, no, we don't bring that anymore.
Mike:We're trying to like yeah, we do operate a lot of times as like a robot, Because I think I wonder why we do that. Though Like is it?
Eldar:Well, that's the thing I think we got. We bought it, we bought in. Yeah, somebody tricked us Like you've got to work 100% or something John Lennon has the answer.
Phillip:I mean, it's what happens while you're busy making other plans.
Katherine:Oh shit, it's huge right now in our societies, people selling us these. The robot these dreams of discipline and all that stuff. It's you know, yeah. And I think that some generations have been a little bit more exposed to it.
Eldar:Yeah. Or you know it's more in there. Yeah, but the thing is, the funny thing is a few years younger than us. Go, try to get them addicted to this conversation.
Mike:Yeah, no, but the funny thing is that all the stuff that's being preached right now yeah, like you can't we're just saying about the discipline, all the shit. 99% of it doesn't work.
Eldar:Well, of course, that's the crazy thing, of course, because the actual work is fucking work, bro. There's no short cuts to the shit.
Katherine:You know, what's interesting in some cases is a trauma response, you know to feel controlled, to feel like you know. It's either that or you know your life collapses. You know it's interesting.
Eldar:That's why we also had a conversation about war. That war is inevitable. These things will clash and we need to clean. The guy's going to get cleaned, you know yeah. There's a lot to unpack and a lot to reflect on.
Katherine:That's a lot yeah.
Phillip:I think whatever pain that you create for yourself, it doesn't become any greater. Like whatever pain you create for yourself. I think the hope in this which it's maybe some of it can sound, maybe like it's very difficult, which it may be, but I think the hope is that whatever you create onto yourself, it can be undone, like I don't think whatever you create to yourself, it gets magnified where, like, you can't get it done. I think whatever you do to yourself, whatever pain or delusion that you bring, I think you have that level of kind of resilience that, like it's built within yourself. I don't think you can take extra pain and like what your body and mind can handle.
Eldar:Now you're talking about the saying that they say God will give you what you can handle.
Phillip:Yeah, like I don't think that God only gives you what you can handle. Yeah, like I don't think you can over punish yourself.
Eldar:That's the internal God.
Phillip:Right, like if you believe that you can over punish yourself, then I think it makes sense to believe that you have to go outside and get other medicines and then say I don't have the tools to fix this. Yeah, so if you realize that all the mistakes that you made, you can actually fix them, if you do actually want to put in the work and you want to actually ask why and align with the truth I think there is a piece to that. Even when you have the pain, Interesting.
Eldar:Wow, this is a big topic.
Phillip:Yeah, it's a good one.
Eldar:We'll definitely talk about this pain there's a lot of pain attached to it.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah. But also there's a big misconception between what is actually difficult or what is like, for example like to me at least. There's no need, for example, to search for answers to certain things. The answers are pretty much especially in this circle at least the answers are all extremely easy, like we all know, or we can all find out by asking questions internally of like what to do or like what they actually are. The difficult part is, one, the ability to humble yourself to hear those answers or to ask those questions, yeah, and then two, the learning of how to apply it to yourself.
Eldar:Well, I mean, what you're saying is, then, that we are living also, simultaneously, a very karmic experience, that the reason why we can sometimes ask these difficult questions because our ego is too big. If our ego is too big is because we've already, like you said earlier, made conclusions or misconceptions about the world and we have to live them out. Yeah, therefore, we have to keep suffering up until we get to a point of enough suffering, right where we can finally humble ourselves and say I had enough, which is, again, we're talking about the fucking rock bottom.
Toliy:Yeah, but then also again, the funny thing for me at times to think about also is like, for example, in those kind of situations with like ego right, lots of times I guess like or like my understanding of like the buildup of ego right is maybe like a, maybe a mechanism against others, right. But for example, in a circle like this right, like if you actually break it down and like think about it, right, where is ego necessary and who does it impress? So, lots of times like you're flaring up your policies or having an ego in a society that does not, that no longer exists in the way that it existed for you before in your life.
Mike:But who remembers that in the moment? Yeah, a very trained and conditioned response.
Toliy:No, that's what I'm saying. Is that like that's the reality of what's happening? Yeah, he's like we're only now it's that that is the case. Yeah, like you play your policies.
Toliy:People respond to that and maybe they're nervous and, like you, can gain status as a result, like your ego, your physical lots of times, like responses are almost like you're in a circle where like, like status or like materialism or like stuff like that is revered in particular ways, right, like that's almost how you act in a place where, like that's not valued to begin with. And yet you still act that kind of way because in that moment maybe you're under the impression you are, but like if you think about what's going on, it's like what for what? Like what do you need this for?
Mike:Like. What way is this like? I think it's super necessary that the way it plays out it's for you to look within.
Eldar:It's it's not the opportunity you would be very lucky to be in an environment, right, I think, where you're gonna your ego is gonna flare up, right, for example, like you said, this environment, you guys gonna flare up. Or you're gonna say something like I don't know, arrogantly, like yeah, I got the best shoes here. Like we're gonna look around you like are you fucking idiot? Are you stupid? This is not, this doesn't fly here. You know what I mean. Like this is the best case scenario to be in an environment where people don't fuck with this kind of shit You're fucking dumbass.
Toliy:Yeah, you're dumbass. Yeah, he's saying the other thing, that's what I'm saying.
Phillip:Okay, you're saying the other end of that example is that most of society is going to respond to somebody who's gonna flare their posies and like they're gonna actually almost be validated and that ego is necessary in those kinds of circles.
Toliy:But then that to me sometimes like what's the point Also, well, well, no, I'm saying that like the funny thing at times is that like the way that our ego like applies now, but cases that we lit, where that like we almost are acting like we do live in that world, when that, when that world is not even existent anymore, but we try to act.
Mike:I mean I think maybe you're saying it overly confidently the world is exists very, very well here, Even here, like we try to definitely be humble here in this. I guess you're referring to this circle.
Toliy:No, no, no, I don't know what you're trying to say, I'm saying is that, like, like, like, yeah, that stuff exists everywhere.
Mike:But I'm saying more stuff. Can you explain to me what stuff?
Toliy:the egotistical behavior, okay, no, I'm saying that egotistical behavior does exist here, but I'm saying is that, like lots of times, the buildup of these egos and these mechanisms are towards, like it's a need to like, either it's a self protect or something like that in very particular circles that, like you, grew up in, that valued particular things.
Eldar:So it's just like a habitual response.
Mike:Like, for example, no the way I just thought about it is that you're like the way I saw. It is like you're running around the world running a muck and then you come back here and you want to put on this different hat and be like no, no, I'm this humble guy, no no, no, no, no, no, no.
Toliy:I'm saying is that, for example, right Like before the circle, for example, connected right there, like you could, you could have been living your life in particular circles? Let's just say we're like like. We're like status and materialism is like very big right and your ego kind of built up to like maintain certain images or do certain things because yes because that group, like that kind of stuff, was necessary in that kind of environment.
Toliy:Right, and to me what I'm saying is funny now is that in the environment we have now, those types of behaviors are still carried over into a place where that stuff is not valued in to begin with, where it's like that's not important or no one gives a fuck about that to begin with. So why do you even have an ego to begin with in that subject?
Mike:Oh, you're talking about that.
Toliy:Yeah, but we don't argue in those In those, no, no, but like the way that that, that like you can act, is in like accordance to that. When, like you know, like what, like what do you mean? Like that, that, that kind of like ego is not required.
Eldar:Yeah, but that person, that specific person, totally has to kind of understand that.
Toliy:They're like well, no, I get this social environment does not work this way.
Eldar:They don't have this. This is not their currency.
Toliy:Well, that will know. What I'm saying is that, like it's oftentimes not like felt that like that, like you no longer have to act in an egotistical way, for example, to to to protect yourself from like things that you don't need to protect. Yeah, but you need to be convinced of that from well, that that's what. I'm saying is like if you reflect on that kind of stuff right, like if, for example, you believe that the people around you want the best for you.
Mike:For example, if you believe that, no, but I have a different, different where's the ego necessary? I agree, I agree I agree.
Eldar:Well, you hope so right, you hope to build trust enough for the people to know, for that person to actually know that like, okay, like I can be open and vulnerable way here, I don't have to bring up flaring up my point, but I think that's impossible. Well, no, I think it's possible over time. Yeah, I think it's possible.
Mike:No, my problem with it. Maybe I'm not understanding correctly. Yeah, if you're running a muck somewhere else in the world, yeah, and then you come over here and you try to not run a mug, yeah, you cannot do that.
Toliy:No, but that's not what we're talking about.
Mike:Okay, so help me understand. Yeah, you made it very confusing.
Eldar:Yeah, overall. Yeah, I was following you and then when Mike was confused just now about this, then I'm not following you again. Do you follow me now or no? I thought I was up until Mike didn't understand it, so I was like whoa, maybe.
Toliy:I didn't know, but you just agree with me. I didn't agree with you.
Mike:Yeah, that, that, that you give it. Can you give a more? Yeah, like I'm saying, like, give me an example of the thing. Can you create one? There doesn't be a real one.
Toliy:Can I create one? Like we're hanging out in here and I'm like sorry bragging about my New Jordans. No, no, that's not what I'm saying.
Eldar:Okay, I got one, I got a real life example Philip Nick, the car right before, and he was like yo, I'm so worried, I'm so worried. Mike said you don't have to worry, although there's a value, that right. But before he was like, he was amped up about it. He was like, oh, like, worried about it, right, and now, like now, he doesn't have to worry about it anymore. He calmed down. So certain things are now different.
Toliy:Right, yeah, that might be like a minor, like a, that's all. I thought about An example of it.
Toliy:But I'm saying more. It's like like, for example, like there's there's times where we all flare up our ego at certain things, right. But if you reflect on that thing right of what actually happened, I think that you'll come to realize that, like the flaring of your ego was not necessary to begin with because you're misinterpreting how people either like feel about you or like what the situation happened to begin with. But you're doing that because you're carrying like an old behavior or old understanding mechanism into a group that doesn't like value that are worked that kind of way to begin with. So it's almost like you're going into like a defense mode in an area where you don't need to be in defense mode on that thing.
Eldar:Sure, because you have an unconditioned yourself. Yet from that, yes, the variable.
Toliy:Yeah, that's what I'm saying and like, if you reflect on that, it oftentimes like, almost like, sounds early, right, where it's like, oh okay, like I'm flaring up my ego because, like I shared something and like I don't want to. Like you know, I like, like that that person thinks that, like I don't even know, like, like, like. Like that person is like like talking shit about me or like something like that, when that person might be trying to challenge you or to help you, for example, right, and that kind of way. But the way that that person would act as if, like they're saying something and now they're being attacked out of, like a like menace or like a spider, something, right, but like, when you reflect on it, I think afterwards, I think that you come to the conclusion that, like, you know, like that's not necessary to begin with because, like there's a different goal, like that everyone is collectively, I guess, like, like is that like a stake or like?
Toliy:pursuing Okay and your ego is not necessary here and it does not do anything like really productive. I guess it. When, only after you reflect on it can you believe that?
Phillip:Okay, I don't understand the whole time, but I prefer when he says flaring pauses, because then you started to say flaring ego. Yeah, I like both, but I prefer flaring pauses, just in moving forward.
Eldar:Okay, all right Cool.
Toliy:You got it off your chest, yeah, but you, you don't understand what I was saying.
Eldar:No, you just, you're just saying the obvious again.
Toliy:Yeah, but I think that's the whole point. Is that the obvious is not so obvious.
Eldar:I agree with you there too. Yeah, like to me at least. Like, okay, cool, like what do you want from this? You know, you're like what I'm getting, what I'm doing with it.
Toliy:Yeah, like I feel like so many times. For example, like if I'm like, I'm like I'm like I'm like if I'm flaring my ego, right yeah, and like I'm feeling something about something. If you just wait, reflect on it, you realize that there was no purpose of fraying your ego to begin with.
Mike:Did the not like, like it was not needed. I still have the same problem with that.
Toliy:But in the moment you feel like it's needed, which is why you do it.
Mike:But, you're saying like, hey, I'm not that person that needs to flare as ego, but the truth is, you are that person. Yeah, that's what I'm saying I made that example of like yo, you're running amok somewhere else and over here you're an angel, but the truth is you're not an angel.
Toliy:No, no no, no, no. I'm saying that, like you, are that person that does need to flare your ego, but in reality, when? If you do reflect on that thing from when you did flare your ego but there's a reason why you flared your ego.
Eldar:Mike is saying yes, no, I'm saying that 100%.
Mike:What you're saying, like living in God's fucking shoulder. You don't have to worry about anything.
Phillip:No, no no, what I'm getting is that he's talking about environment Like I'm in one environment.
Eldar:But Mike is saying that the environment doesn't matter, because if you're doing it outside.
Mike:It's inconsistency in character. No, no, you're doing it everywhere.
Toliy:No, no, you would be doing that, you would be flaring that ego everywhere. But I'm saying is that the point I'm saying is that you don't need to do that.
Eldar:Sure, all you're saying that the environment is not stronger than your nature.
Toliy:The environment is not stronger than your. No, no, no, no, no, I'm saying that you yeah.
Mike:You don't need to do it, but the fact is, that's who you are and that's what you do it.
Toliy:I'm not arguing that, so what?
Mike:are you saying so? That's why now I'm understanding what all this is saying Like why?
Toliy:No, no, I'm saying that when you reflect on that thing that you flared your ego up to begin with, I think that you will always find that you did not need to do that to begin with. Well, sure, that's part of the coping mechanism. Yeah, no, no, no, not hoping that.
Eldar:You're just coping with it.
Mike:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Eldar:What's?
Mike:going on.
Toliy:What do we really do? Yeah, let's pretend that we're not in a dialogue. Yeah, let's pretend it's there. Let's pretend that it's there, that it's okay. You don't know what we are talking about. If that person sat there and actually thought about what's going on and what they're doing to begin with, I think they will find that what they're doing is not necessary or was not warranted to begin with. But yeah, who they are is who they are, that's for sure. But I'm saying is that when we flare our ego at particular times, if we reflect in that afterwards, we're gonna find, I think, that we did not need to do this to begin with, because this wasn't a necessary response to what was going on.
Eldar:I actually disagree, I disagree. I'm with Mike. Yes.
Phillip:So an example would be if you're a kid and you don't have the capacity to understand what the situation would be, you're going into the ego to try to protect yourself from some type of pain that you don't have the skill to then figure out.
Phillip:Now, to me, my example in this that I'm getting from is that now you're that person, you're that kid you grew up, you're around those people where you created that kind of shield which actually did serve a purpose. Now you're in another group where, let's say, you fast forward, you gain trust and you realize they want the best for you, versus maybe the other group that was trying to manipulate and didn't know how to come from a good place, take advantage of you. So I think the ego is necessary in the first place. But now you're in the second place where the ego is not necessary. But you have to then come to the conclusion that these people are coming from a good place, they want the best for you, they want to trust you.
Phillip:Now, in this example, that person doesn't need the ego anymore. Right, but now they can go back to that other situation and they can say, wow, sure, there are some cases of this. Wow now I can probably go back, but I think to me there's a trajectory of like when you were a kid, you needed that ego at that stage, okay, sure, I don't think that you didn't need it.
Eldar:Now you probably go back to that point. Yeah, it doesn't serve you as much Now you don't need it. Yeah, because now you're in a new environment that doesn't require it, but you have to come to a realization. Yeah, well what?
Toliy:I'm saying is that oftentimes it's almost like a comical thing of what you're doing. An example of that could be, for example, if I'm doing something right and let's just say, you say something to me and now I'm upset and my ego starts to flare. The reality of the situation is that you are trying to help me, right? Yeah, I'm not understanding that in the moment and I'm feeling, for example, attacked, and instead I respond, for example, with ego. Yeah, sure, but me responding in that kind of way is me having a lack of understanding that I'm in a particular environment or I'm speaking to a particular individual who wishes the best for me in order to help me.
Eldar:That's one of my misconceptions. Absolutely yes, and interactions okay.
Toliy:And then the person who flares, for example, the ego or, as Philip would say, the posies. Right, like I'm saying that, if you reflect on that, you will find that your ego is not necessary here, to begin with, because you're dealing with individual, or individuals that are only trying to help you.
Eldar:Okay, I get that, so what? Yeah, okay, that's a very common thing.
Toliy:I guess, but it's a common thing. But that doesn't turn out that way.
Eldar:So what are you trying to say, like, what are you advising from this? Like to the people you just kept drilling? At the same point there was like a spin around the block and you just had like a 20-timey, 20-minute rant, wow, about one thing that like is like okay, like what's the point?
Toliy:Well, like the point is that like your ego is not Yo, I'm ego. Yeah, it's not necessary in the places where you think it is necessary.
Mike:Sure, totally yeah, but you're talking about a perfect person, Obviously yeah, I'm not talking about a perfect person, no, no, he's not talking about a perfect person, no, but he's saying like, in a perfect situation, you don't need to use your ego.
Toliy:But, yeah, not in a perfect situation. In this situation you don't need to, but you still do.
Eldar:Okay, cool, so okay. So what did that say? Yeah, it's just what it is right.
Toliy:I mean. So why is it grass good? Why is it, you know, like?
Eldar:As this is an example of him flaring up his pauses.
Mike:All right, a little bit. Yeah, Phil would have to be the judge on that.
Toliy:Flaring up your pauses because, like I felt like I was trying to explain something and I have to add the you were trying to say something to the smart.
Katherine:That was a Tommy thing. Oh wow, it was a.
Eldar:Tommy thing yeah, no, he just like said something like okay, cool, we understand what he's saying, we agree with it.
Toliy:No, you said that you were not understanding what I was saying, which is why I kept explaining it.
Eldar:Yeah, but why saying it Like now? I don't understand. Like what's the connection between why he's saying this in the first place?
Katherine:I didn't come out of it more clear than it was before, when you said you didn't understand it. That's where I'm. Yeah, that means it's a terrible job. And then my back-up point was also oh, you find this comical.
Eldar:That's why you wanted to share it with us yeah like anytime I didn't get that okay.
Toliy:Okay we should just. We should live together, then I was not trying to make a joke. No, I'm saying that like it's crazy to actually see when these situations happen and when it happens and then when you look at it, you're like why are you doing this?
Eldar:Okay, so you have a thing for this type of situation. Yeah, like once I.
Toliy:Yeah, like once I Like, if I'm doing this and I realize it and then I reflect on it, I'm like yo like, why are you doing this? Like almost like this is not like a.
Katherine:I'm sorry. I mean, Can you summarize what?
Toliy:that was about yeah, I can.
Mike:If you're egotistical, you're gonna be egotistical. Yeah, yeah.
Eldar:Yeah, okay. So Phil put it really well when you were in here. He said look, if you were, as a little kid, for example, grew up in an environment with bullies, you will have like a protection shield right Every time somebody says something to you you want guard. It's necessary, it's necessary because you've been protecting yourself right. But that was not necessary.
Eldar:Your mom took you out of that school, out of that environment. She put you in a private school and in the private school the kids are very nice, buttoned up, they have training on anti-bullying and all this other stuff and they're all inclusive and they understand cultural differences and they love everybody. So you come in with your weirdness and they're like, hey, hugs and kisses and stuff like that, and you're like, wait a second, you know you ready to fight, like Toly's making an example that this happens. And then, like, after you've put up your guard and you wanted to fight these kids, they met you with hugs, right. And then you go home and then you're like what was that all about? Like I didn't need to do that, like this is a different environment. So you sit and you reflect on that. Right, philip, am I doing this right?
Phillip:So yeah, catherine's example, her personal example to you, which you brought up today, would be like she would come to you and say like I'm not enough, I'm not enough, but I'd be like, wait, you are. She's actually bringing the ego into this example, where it's actually not allowing her to realize that the value to you is, you're bringing love and your scale is totally different.
Eldar:Completely from hers.
Phillip:yes, she's bringing the old mindset, which is the old ego in this case scenario where it probably did serve her in other examples.
Eldar:But not in this relationship.
Phillip:But in this one. It's actually not, but you see it just because you see it. You can keep pointing it out, but she has to realize that the thing that served her before is not serving her in this new level. This is what totally.
Katherine:And this is the only you know what I wanna add to that though. This is not a conversation that you and I sit down and have often. We never talk about this, what our expectations are of each other as husband and wife. This is not a conversation that happens. So last night was it last night that we had this conversation when I'm like oh wow, I didn't know this. I was almost shocked because you never say that to me and then we don't talk about it.
Eldar:I've said this before plenty of times. How about this and this is a fact, but I don't think you are able to listen yet to understand what I'm saying, so therefore, that probably fall on deaf ears.
Toliy:Which can, and again it's a certain people can't be viewed like. What you just said is very offensive. Okay, sure, that's what I'm saying, but it's not because you're trying to.
Eldar:Yeah, raise awareness.
Toliy:Yes, to say something. Yeah, fine. And actually on this point, I think I remember either this was either like three or four years ago I think you guys were having this kind of similar discussion. I think Eldar said that he was okay with every meal being bought 100%.
Eldar:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah this is just one example. Yeah, I remember you guys talking about this.
Eldar:This is just one of the examples that we've talked about Certain things that she does that bring her stress and I'm like yeah, what are you doing? You know, this doesn't affect me, I don't care about this, you can let go of this, but she has her own little attachments, own little things, right Conditions that she can't jump over. How many times?
Eldar:And therefore she's not good to herself, but that's why I have to be the reminding guy, right? Hey, hey, you're enough, you're good, don't worry about it, I love you anyway. And she's like oh wow, I can't believe it, babe, I'm such a bad wife.
Phillip:How many times this week alone did we have examples of all of us in the office where people are saying something and the other person's not hearing them because they want to say something or they have an idea of where they need to be in the conversation? Like I think we had an example with Toly too, where you were saying something or I said an example and Toly didn't hear it. We were in the car, I think coming from the car.
Phillip:And then he said something and you were like, did you just hear Philip's example? But he didn't hear it because he wanted to say something else. That's right, and I think that's a smaller example of maybe something more surface, but to me it's the bigger idea is the mindset towards it, which is you have an agenda and whatever your agenda is, it's actually preventing you from listening and hearing anything From listening and hearing what you need. So in this example, without me hearing it.
Eldar:I would do that. You got to understand everything I said yesterday, last night, even though there was nice words. She will forget all of them.
Phillip:OK, and this is an example. Remember that podcast, that where you don't have to go to the place to actually know. That's right. And in my example right here, I'd say, based off of Toly happening and then based off of this, I don't have to go back the four years to be in the conversation where there's probably a good example of Kat had her own agenda at the time and she did not listen to that part, that's right, and then you're bringing it up. She's still not listening and she's like wait.
Mike:I never heard you bring it up, but you're like wait, no, I brought it up multiple times. No, I think it's part. It goes back to that buzzing because whatever is discussed today in this moment, in half an hour we're going to be making plans to go eat a nice lunch. We're going to be going, we're going to be eating, we'll be drinking and then after we're going to be having a dessert. All that buzzing again, all the stuff that we added onto our plate that distracts us. We forget about everything that was said today.
Phillip:Yeah, like if I was just like hey, we'll go to McDonald's, we'll get ice cream and nuggets and fries and stuff like after this, and then you say anxiety.
Mike:who were stressed this? What?
Eldar:Yeah, focus you go what?
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, if you want a comical little bit of example of what I was saying. If you ever watched a movie with Eddie Murphy, the training day. No training places? Oh yeah, they tell him that, like yo, this is your new place, this is your house, this is all your shit. And he starts taking stuff and stuff again into his jacket.
Phillip:He's like what are you doing?
Toliy:He's like oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is mine. And he starts taking a vase and cigars. He's like you're only stealing from yourself. This is all your shit. He's almost like dumbfounded, Like what the fuck are you saying?
Eldar:Yeah exactly. Because he's used to in a particular environment.
Toliy:He's put into a different environment completely.
Eldar:I have an example of this too in a relationship when we first started it. I would go to a store or whatever and she would call me and I would be like, oh yeah, I'm here, I'm going to be the two minutes or whatever, Don't worry, I'm almost paranoid to tell her where I am, who I'm with when I'm coming back and she's like, why are you telling me all this? Like everything's fine. And I realized that I was conditioned from my previous relationship to be on guard all the time to tell the person where I'm at, who I'm with, because the other person was very jealous Checking shit.
Eldar:So I brought that and then I had to uncondition myself that I'm in a loving relationship, she's accepting of me, she loves me, she cares for me, and this is not a display of love.
Toliy:Yeah, maybe it's because I have very close ties to anxiety and stuff like that, and to me it's like again, when you think about these things or you describe your situation of what you're doing with Catherine, with Tonga, that kind of stuff, the level of suffering and misery that you get from things that are not even existing to begin with is just baffling.
Eldar:Another reflection point.
Toliy:Yeah.
Eldar:Yeah right.
Toliy:So it's like again, you're almost suffering from something and doing something, calling or saying these things from an expectation or reality that she does not agree with. To begin with, that's right, but less you are suffering from.
Eldar:That's 100%.
Toliy:Yeah, same thing with ego and a particular group setting of people, for example, that are trying to help or maybe understand. It's like you're flaring your pauses in ways that are like it's not needed here, it's not yet. I agree.
Eldar:No, I agree with you.
Toliy:I'm going to say that oftentimes, when you reflect on it, that's when it sounds funny to you, or that's when you're like, yeah, like.
Eldar:I know why I was doing this, yeah, and to me.
Toliy:every time that happens, it's almost like a comical thing, because I'm suffering from things that are not true and don't exist, which is why I think to tie everything back. The only purpose is the seeking of the truth and the aligning with it, Because if you have that, you will not experience that kind of life and you won't live a life that is not real.
Eldar:There you go. You know, I think those are good final thoughts for you, right yeah?
Katherine:He wants to ramble. You see what he said he put a bow on it.
Eldar:It's very important what he just said. For you At least, if you take something back, take back the fact that the purpose that at least you've been trying to figure out for yourself and the way you've been hammering yourself and inducing stress and anxiety for yourself from this, it's actually not the purpose that you should be looking for in the first place. The one that he's talking about is actually not stress and it doesn't induce any type of stress, right, it's just trying to. If your purpose is aligned with just finding out and trying to figure things out, I think it's a very noble one. It's a good one for you, for your health and for your growth and stuff like that, and everything else will align in accordance if you follow the truth.
Katherine:Where is this truth? Like hee, hee, like, how, where does one go?
Eldar:The truth is within you.
Katherine:No, the tools are within you, hey how das? Tools that need guidance. Yeah, I feel like. That's my opinion. Like I feel like with the proper guidance.
Toliy:yes, yes, yeah, I feel like when you say that statement, Wait, wait wait, wait, wait.
Eldar:second right there, Sorry, sorry, sorry. She says the truth right here, right here. This is the truth. She's on the level where she needs guidance.
Toliy:Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This is what she needs, right.
Eldar:So then you have to. You have to take that very seriously of what you just said. Don't make any conclusions for yourself. Get the guidance.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, like, I feel like the way that you said that it reminded me of that scene, like in the movie in the Peaceful Warrior, where, like they're walking almost somewhere and he's like yo, where is? Like, you know, where are we Like? Do you remember that?
Eldar:scene. Yes, yes, yes, where he's walking. When are we getting there?
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, like with the rock, and he's kind of like you know, trying to see like where. Like you ask, like where is the truth? I think that, like it's like one of those situations that I would say that it's around you everywhere, right, right, especially, you're married to Eldar, right, who's like the main teacher for all of us, right, Like it's pretty much everywhere that you turn, whether you're with us collectively or you're, for example, like with Eldar, right, like it reminds me of that scene where, like, sock is with Dan, right, and he's trying to see like where are we going, or like what's going on here?
Mike:They've been hiking for like four hours. Yeah, he's like what do you mean?
Toliy:Like we're here right, Like it's almost that like where's the truth?
Katherine:You guys are talking about like the truth, you know, almost like it's an attainable thing or something that I can grab. But you know, like my question is in a sense like OK, where is the right, am I looking in the right place? Like, what do I? Study, or where do I you?
Toliy:know or where are you looking for it now?
Phillip:See, I think when you say guidance, I think that automatically puts you in a position to be looking outside of yourself for it. I think the language is important Maybe, I don't know if that's what we're talking about.
Katherine:Yeah, I think language is important.
Phillip:Because if you're saying you know I don't know exactly how you phrase it, but if it sounds it was something along the lines of, like you know, I need guidance to find it. I think if you you know why?
Katherine:Yeah, like in this moment, like I don't feel, like like I need some guidance with that, like I don't feel that I know what's like how to navigate this.
Phillip:Yeah, that's not wrong, you know, yeah, I don't think that's wrong. So I think again that's coming back to the place and saying where do I find truth? And then you say like I don't know.
Eldar:See, that's why I said that's a very important step, because I don't know part of this, because I don't know better, but you actually have to remember this, yeah.
Toliy:See, sometimes I get a little bit like I don't know if the word is confused. But, like for me, I'm wondering what's the difference? What is the difference between an individual who says that they don't know and they need guidance versus an individual that starts asking questions and not saying that anymore?
Phillip:Oh, I don't think you start asking questions unless you say you don't know.
Toliy:To me the individual that says like I don't know and I need guidance, I think to me still carries like that yeah, but that's the first step. That's what.
Phillip:I'm saying is somebody who's saying that to start asking questions you'll have to genuinely ask or genuinely say I need guidance. And there's something inside of them that will unlock where they're like hey, you know what, like I do have to maybe start asking questions within, and then they start asking questions. I think if you start asking questions right away, that kind of internal step already happened where you're like hey, I really don't know what's going on, whether you say it to yourself or you say it out loud, I don't think you can skip that step.
Eldar:But I need guidance. Is like interchangeable with what he's saying about asking questions. It's the same thing.
Katherine:I'm just. I'm actually. You guys are like like 10 steps ahead of me. I'm taking this very literally as in like you don't know there's this truth out here. You don't know what it is, but it's here, right, or it's around you, or you know, it's very vague. It's very vague. I'm trying to like just, I guess, be more literal about it, like it's like okay, so what?
Eldar:is my first pass. Remember, you used to always ask for this. I can give you the steps.
Mike:It's like we're here, you know talking about this for hours, but I'm walking out of here without like.
Katherine:Okay, what is? What's that first step? What do you guys suggest?
Eldar:for me. As a first stepping stone, because we do a good job with you or no. I don't feel like I know that when you were on this level, also for the listeners.
Katherine:I'm also saying this for the listeners who might be if there's someone as confused as me or in the same position. It's like okay, what is that? First stepping stoner, you know. We said it it's.
Phillip:I don't know you have to call yourself an idiot.
Katherine:Basically, it's now saying I don't know, and then you have to start asking questions.
Phillip:Yeah, I think, when you truly believe that you don't know, I think the humbleness comes from saying, okay, listen, I'm an idiot. Okay, I did all these things that led up to this point that basically masked the truth. So, like, I think, if you have the belief that at some level, when you were a kid, when you were just kind of like playing with your friends and you were going out like you had the truth in you, at some point you got embarrassed, you got inside of your head and you realize, okay, I have to protect myself. So I don't feel that pain of feeling embarrassed and having somebody make fun of me or whatever it may be. Everybody has their own examples.
Phillip:At some point you moved away from the truth, you built up all these walls that prevented you from getting it.
Phillip:So I think if you go back to the origin, if you do believe it that you do have it inside of you and you have to unlock it, then to me you'd have to realize that if you're asking for help, you're basically asking somebody to tell you the right questions to ask yourself, so you can empower yourself and then get back to the point of then where you are aligned with the truth from when you were little.
Phillip:So, like to me, it's there's not like anything out here, it's yeah, you can have an elder or you can have people that can maybe guide you back to yourself, to ask you the right questions and then say, oh shit, I got to this point because I did X, y and Z and then I have to go back to that point and then, once you get back to that point, then you're aligned. But I think asking those questions is to get back into you. So I think the right question correct me if I'm wrong would be I don't know. And then what are the right questions to get back into myself and to separate myself from all the walls that I created for myself. No, you said it.
Toliy:It's deja vu, like, like, like. When Kaz asks this kind of question, it definitely is like a like, a like, a form of deja vu, and there's like a like, a familiar feeling. I guess I like this might be.
Eldar:This is where that quote stands. Like we're all the same. We're all each other, just at different times. You know what I'm saying? Like she's living out where you were deja vu. There's a reason for deja vu. You know what I mean, and so forth and so forth, because it's all. The makeup of a human being is the same.
Phillip:Yeah, we're all doing the same thing.
Phillip:We're trying to get to it, yeah we're trying to explain it so like everybody can get it, but, like to me, everybody in the circle has all started with what we're talking about. They started with being aligned the truth. They had certain life experiences that separated them. They got introduced to the ego to benefit them at some point. Now we're realizing it's not serving us being in the circle. So with Kat's example, to my understanding it's how do I get to the point where I'm asking the right questions, where I can then start to empower myself again, where then I don't need she ultimately does not want outside guidance?
Eldar:You want everybody wants to be empowered. No, of course not Everybody wants to be empowered.
Toliy:The ultimate goal is to be able to be your own guardian. What's the answer, Elder? What would you say to that question? To Catherine's question yeah.
Eldar:No, I think, I agree, I think she has to become curious, really curious or more suffering. More suffering is needed. Yeah, that's what I'm going to say If not, then go suffer more.
Toliy:Yeah, but she's looking for a tangible step. What is actually the first step?
Eldar:I mean, this is the first step. This first step is actually convincing yourself that you don't know.
Toliy:Yeah, Does that feel like clear to you? I guess?
Toliy:Because to me like the deja vu thing to me is, again, they should not feel clear to you. You actually want like a tangible step, and I know that like there's something that I could say or do to convince you of like, of like what to do. So it's almost like my default is to like say something that probably angers the person. I think that at least happened with like Mike. Mike is my opinion is that, like when you kind of hear that like you're either not ready or like, or like that it almost makes you like a little bit upset internally or like angry it's frustrating because I'm sitting in this position of uncertainty or something's not right in my life.
Katherine:You know all of this stuff and then we're having this conversation and then you guys are basically telling me just stay there.
Toliy:You know, just stay there.
Katherine:You're an idiot accept it and just sit there.
Toliy:And I'm like oh, but I want to do something. No, no, no, but I don't know what to do.
Katherine:And then I just go back to I'm an idiot, you know well yes.
Toliy:But I think that I think that there's a couple of things here at play. I think one, the person who's asking for that first step I think, at least in the moment is a liar, like that they're not actually asking for a step, and there's like the feeling I have, internally at least, is that like there's nothing that I could communicate to this person that they could understand, like what I'm saying.
Katherine:The truth is yeah, you know what you can say.
Toliy:No, no, but I think that, like I think at least it's a completely it's a very good and proper emotion to either feel frustrated and angry, because what does that lead to?
Eldar:Exactly yes. What does that lead? To Hold on one second. Well, I want to make an example of the Peaceful Warrior. When he was frustrated, he's like don't come to me until you have something good to say. Right, he sent them over to the car and that's it, right. Like he's saying that again you're not deserving of the knowledge right now. He doesn't believe you. You're a liar.
Toliy:Yeah.
Eldar:And the other person's like what do? You mean I'm ready, like tell me what to do.
Toliy:I know that, like that, that's a feeling from like the other person, but I think it's designed in a way where, like you're supposed to get offended from this, you're probably supposed to get a little bit angry, and I think doing that will lead you to asking questions.
Katherine:Well, for the record, I didn't request to talk about this Like this is something that's happening to me and I'm happy to like. I like express it, but I wasn't like saying hey guys, I want the answer.
Eldar:We're not willing to give it to you. Anyway, I'm talking to you about it because I'm feeling it.
Katherine:But you know, you know I didn't come with that intention, but now that we're here it's like okay, so what is? What is that?
Toliy:Yeah, but I'm only saying. What I'm saying was earlier in the conversation. You said that you were confused and that you were wanting to find out right, yeah, right, like that. That that's right thing, that that's coming from you know.
Phillip:Yeah, being frustrated is. Is it you have to get mad? Yeah, you know frustration here in anger.
Toliy:I think it ignites like the like, the right neck, next steps of like from this, like if you actually get frustrated why do you think that is?
Eldar:Why do you think that is? Because it's because it's you actually giving.
Toliy:No, you're actually what's actually what's inside of you. Well, yes, and by the accurate representation of who you actually are. Yeah, and what actually. And then what actually happens is that your ego actually realizes that he's wrong.
Phillip:Yeah, yeah. So that's the actually being mad is the first time probably in your adult life, since you were aligned with the truth, that you have aligned with the truth again, which is actually acknowledging that you are angry where before, when you are in your ego, you're saying no, I'm good, I'm better, I'm right, I'm right. So it's the actual first time where you did align back with the truth and saying damn, I'm wrong. And then you can say I'm an idiot, because when you're wrong, you can then acknowledge I was wrong for all the decisions and delusions that I made and I am an idiot, and rightfully so. And then you can actually be aligned with the truth. You acknowledge it.
Toliy:Well, yeah, the anger to me is like the, the, the clashing of, like what you're actually trying to do and like your ego.
Mike:Yeah, no, I see it as a test, as a test, as a test.
Eldar:You had many of these.
Toliy:It's a test that I think beats the ego like, like, like the ego in the moment Either you're gonna with anger. And then he's like I don't have an answer and then, because he has an answer, it allows, like Catherine, to see that I, I, I think, an actual representation of what's actually happening and I think it's supposed to lead for that reflection moment. Yes, yeah.
Toliy:Because, the ego in this moment cannot help help you, and I think that you as a person acknowledge that. Yeah, and that's when, like, the raw feelings come out, like from it, yeah, of that, yeah, and it's like because it's, it's a frustrating feeling to tell someone like yo, I'm red, ready, tell me what to do, yeah, and the other person saying no, you're a liar. Yeah, yeah, like that is supposed to make you feel upset.
Eldar:It's up away.
Toliy:Yeah, what do you mean? I'm telling you, I'm ready.
Eldar:Yeah, yeah.
Toliy:Right.
Eldar:Yeah, but then it's supposed to leave towards introspection?
Phillip:Yeah, and you hear the word idiot. I remember he kept calling me like idiot or saying idiot yeah, and I didn't like that. Yeah, yeah.
Katherine:And. I was like you know when I raised to think that if someone calls you an idiot, it's good for you. Yeah.
Phillip:But what I'm noticing now is like, say, like three months ago till now, the word idiot has a totally different meaning for me. Yeah. Because now I realize that the power of the ego is built over time and it's more of like the habit. So now, if I'm looking at the ego in the moment, in an environment that doesn't value the ego, the power that it has brought prior to, now is very, very different.
Phillip:Yeah, and the truth is now more powerful. And then saying like, okay, this thing that did kind of like hold me over, hold me hostage. It was built over time, over like a 30 plus year period. The power was time, yeah. The ego itself, yeah, it ain't shit, it's stupid. It's stupid, yes, it's an idiot. It's an idiot, yeah. So that's why, when you call it an idiot, it doesn't like it yes, yeah, because you call them things for what they are, because it's power and you basically held power over me when I was little.
Phillip:Yeah, you took advantage of me.
Eldar:like yo, you're a bitch bro, yeah, you're a bitch, yeah I don't need this anymore.
Phillip:You bitched me out when I was little. You took advantage of me. Yeah, you know, I was, like you know, ghostbuster on these.
Toliy:Just chilling, you know. Yeah, I think Eldar takes you on the next level. He calls you piece of shit.
Eldar:Yeah, sometimes, you got to call for what it is, that's correct.
Toliy:Yeah, but again that phrase is like in society, it's like it's completely different. Yeah, yeah.
Eldar:Like you you know you said it right Like if the environment, that you understand that, like yo, like these people, actually value something else. Those terms are not supposed to land the way they do in the moment. But in this moment it's too unnecessary for us to be enemies. Yes, yes.
Mike:Very necessary yeah.
Toliy:Yeah, just a reflection of them afterwards. Then it's like yo.
Eldar:Yeah, you know, and that's the way we learn at this moment. At this moment, yeah, because we're egotistical beings. Yeah.
Mike:And also evolution is a long process. So it is a long process. You know, maybe in 10,000 years we all be born already. Socrates you know yeah.
Eldar:Well, socrates believe that thing, that the recollections yeah.
Mike:If he, if and he believes not, then probably that's what's going to happen. Yeah, In 10K. Well, yeah, listen you know like we have it all in us.
Eldar:That's what I was thinking about.
Mike:The evolution process of, like people and animals and whatever, always evolve and adapt to their environment and I would think we're adapting and evolving towards the better. Yeah. So I mean it's inevitable for, yeah, and I'm not sure what kind of timeframe though, yeah, For people to you know the stuff that we're learning at this age, to already know it.
Eldar:I think the indication of human development and evolvement. Evolution is developing levels of PTSD to previous stressors and incorrect things that used to think it served us, but now it doesn't. Like, oh shit, that's a sign of progress. Example of you were telling me the thought of going to a corporate job. What do you get? You're like oh shit, this is terrible. I'd rather die.
Eldar:You see that You'd rather die. It sounds crazy. That is a sign your PTSD, your sensitivity level, has risen and therefore that's an example of your mind's evolution. Wow, I just also connected a sick thing.
Toliy:Holy shit. You're welcome. Holy shit, you. You wrote you. You can't see it right now, but if you walk up there and I just tell you, go, look at what you wrote on the board and how it liberates everyone based on this conversation, you're going to instantly connect it. I don't know if you're right Tick skin.
Eldar:2024 is the year of tick skin. It's not year of the dragon, as they say.
Mike:No, that's the year of the dragon, but a dragon does have tick skin, they do oh shit.
Katherine:I mean, it's a dragon. They breathe fire.
Toliy:If that's not the path to liberation, I don't know what is, especially in this circle.
Eldar:Yeah, it is. I mean, everybody's looking for that right. She's looking to learn how to do boundaries properly. You two stand up for yourself. Philip, too, has been molested his whole life. You know what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying, Maybe not physically. You know what I mean Mentally. You know, with empty promises, yeah, at the end of the day, yeah, we're looking to build and develop tick skin so we can re-deliberate ourselves.
Phillip:So what's the balance of having tick skin but then also being vulnerable to like, let let things in.
Toliy:Also like let good things in also. That's the paradox is that having tick skin is is a vulnerability, and the lack of tick skin is the shell that you're creating. So thin skin actually pushes away makes it more difficult to let things in. That is the paradox.
Phillip:Because to me when I hear tick skin, I think of somebody who has like a hard exterior, who doesn't let things in.
Eldar:And you think of girls who cry, are the ones that let vulnerable, let things in.
Toliy:Right yeah, that's what the bulk-fucking situation is the skin that we all have. The more ability we have to let in like a education and learning and we'll have a much easier time putting our ego to put us in a position where we could learn and better our lives. The thinner skin we have, the less likely we have the ability to do that.
Phillip:Keep an open mind, so is thick skin and wisdom go hand in hand 100%. Are they two? Separate things 100%, so they're together, yeah, 100%.
Eldar:What are you developing right now on the calls and stuff like that? You're trying to develop thick skin, knowledge and experience. Yeah, you want to lead with that. You want to lead with the truth, right, and stand behind your truth and not bend anymore like you used to. Yeah. You're developing that right, so hopefully you'll adopt that fully, immerse yourself in it and then let that be your guide permanently.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, because I guess in the process of like learning and education, there's like a painful pierce. I guess that happens like when this is happening at the same time, right. So you need the thick skin to be able to withstand those hits, to give yourself the opportunity to listen and to learn. Yeah, which is again like the paradoxical thing about that. It is, yeah, yeah, it is.
Eldar:Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. So, phillip, what are your final thoughts on focus and everything we talked about?
Phillip:Everybody is individual, but like the path that everybody goes on from being aligned to the truth to creating a block, to then coming back to it like it's all the same, we all have such like a similar way to get there, it's really just to me about effectively communicating that to help somebody, and in the best way possible. And you know, yeah, like sharing your experiences is really powerful. So I think everything that we're doing now, I think it's unique that we're all coming from different places and we all have different perspectives, but like Totally same shit. Yeah, at the end of the day, like we're all talking about the same thing. It could sound different, but like totally, example to yours, to cats, to like mics, like I all feel connected, like it's all.
Phillip:Like the two environments to me that we talked about, which is you're in an ego environment where you're separated from the truth, or you're in an environment where you're aligned with the truth. To me, those are the only two separators, like either you're aligned with it or you're not. And if you're not aligned with it, you're like yearning to get there, at least in cats example, like she wants to get there. Yeah, right, so like that, to me there's the only two paths.
Eldar:We'll see how hard she wants it.
Phillip:Yeah, time will tell Sure, and to me, yeah, time, you know in this, especially in this environment. But I think overall, like if I totally was talking about the robot example I think everybody is always destined to come back to like their human fate, like humaneness they're humanists, Like whatever, whatever that thing may be, wherever, like you decide to go off, you decide to pursue fame, anything ego driven that's not aligned in truth, it will eventually get you back there. You might be, like you know, bloodied and bruised by the time you get back there.
Eldar:You might even have to take a long nap and try to over next life.
Phillip:You might have to come back on the next one, yeah, but I think at the end of the day, like we're always going to come back and having trust in that will just allow you to then just kind of maybe live your life and not have to stress as much. Yeah, yeah.
Eldar:So thank you for that. Yeah, mike.
Mike:Yeah, focus, I think focus and your topic yeah, and how we ended?
Mike:Yeah, I think we're going to. I'm going to tie it this way, based on how we ended with cat right, and the way I define, you know, to myself as focus is do you have a good enough reason for doing what you're going to do? And I think it's very important in this situation, you know, with cat, like in this kind of thing where we're just talking about, is she going to have a good enough reason or focus to actually find out the questions that she's asking?
Eldar:You're saying that if she doesn't, then it'll show. Yeah, and if she does, it'll show.
Toliy:Yeah, but even if she doesn't, her humanness will return her back to the same question Eventually. Yeah, yeah, so you're in good hands regardless.
Eldar:Yeah, you've been programmed properly by Dr G or Mr G. Yeah, totally yeah.
Toliy:I mean yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like the realization that, like you know, there's almost like nothing to go find or seek, yeah, and that everything is here is like a.
Eldar:It's a philosophy.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah, it's like a very crazy one.
Eldar:Yeah.
Toliy:Right, especially when you're in it. Yeah, and I don't know that it could be a thing where you just like blank it, like accept for everything, like that's probably a very hard concept to like agree with, but I think you could, probably we could all probably start on like individual things, trying that concept out, right, yeah, saying that like I'm going to look within my circle and within myself internally and start with that one thing. Right, don't have to try to apply it to like everything, because it was like again, it is overwhelming to say that like all the answers to everything in life is just right here within me. Right, but maybe breaking it down and starting with like one thing in particular.
Katherine:That's kind of where I'm at.
Toliy:Yeah, I think.
Katherine:I'm looking at it as a tangible thing. It's like okay, what's that? One step, you know.
Toliy:Yeah.
Katherine:But maybe I have to like go with that as well, you know, and just yeah.
Eldar:It's nonetheless maybe an unhealthy attachment.
Toliy:Yeah, yeah. So like trying that on just that one thing, it's almost like what do you have to lose?
Eldar:Yeah, that's true. Right, yeah, start somewhere.
Phillip:Yeah, you're almost like just a little bit of an idiot there, big or full idiot. Cool, okay yeah.
Toliy:That's it, yeah, yeah, just again. Like that kind of like realization, that kind of thought is like absolutely absurd.
Eldar:Yeah yeah. My final thoughts are going to be built or reiterated based on what Phil upset and I agree with it a lot or at least maybe as an advice for you, babe is that if you can get to a place where you finally take actual accountability right for your own pains and all the things that you are experiencing and actually start pointing the finger at yourself, that's probably the best step right. That you are where you are is because you've earned it, wholeheartedly earned it. That like like totally said earlier, right, Like the world's the way it is, Like it's the way it is, because, like, we've created it this way and this is what it is.
Katherine:Well, hence needing the guidance.
Eldar:Everything is in the right place, because I'm not doing.
Katherine:You know what my choices and my beliefs have brought me here.
Eldar:Yes, but again but you want to be on that. You don't want to let go of your own empowerment, your own power. Right, Think, the step to realizing that you have your own power is maybe realizing that you are a very bad person right To yourself. Yeah.
Katherine:But then you don't build yourself up overnight. Correct, and there are proper steps. Correct, like what you need to do in order for like the thick skin the thick skin, I wasn't born with it and I need to develop it. There are things that need to be practiced and believed in and thoughts need to be changed in order for you to get there.
Mike:You know, Thick skin is easy to be honest.
Katherine:So years ago you said tell Rebecca how to not take things personal and she's like whoa, whoa, whoa, like you're working progress, like we're, you know, basically like chill, we're working on it. You know, not directly, but working on other things impact the taking things personally, the thick skin that's right, you know.
Eldar:So it's a lot of work and I have been working on your thick skin for a very long time already.
Katherine:Yeah, it's a lot of elements that will take you there. Yeah, you know. So it's, it's. I see it as, like you know, it's a lot of things that need to be worked on for me to just get here. And now you know, now I'm having something else to deal with. It's like what are all those elements that need to be, you know, covered, because I've been, you know? Trying my best. Yeah.
Eldar:And here you know, yeah, just like I said, like you, you can realize the things that are negative about yourself and acknowledge them and take inventory of them and finally say to yourself that this is me. You also have the same power to change yourself right and know that, like you have the ability to make choices in such a way and that's also your power so you. I think that shift happens when you finally acknowledge and see things for what they are, and this is what we're trying to say at the end of the day, is that you know seeing things for what they are as part of it, and then part of what Phillips said is that you have to acknowledge the fact that you are here because you did this. Yeah, no one else did it.
Toliy:You have to like roll over and die without rolling over and dying.
Eldar:Yeah Well, you did this to yourself. Nobody else did, nobody had, nobody else had a hand in it except you. You know, I think that's a very big step in that, where then you could finally be like okay, cool, I'm going to do this to myself and I'll holler away and do it.
Katherine:That's what I'm saying. It's like okay, then what yeah?
Phillip:no, yeah, yes.
Katherine:I realized that.
Phillip:Then what no, no so like you can't ask, then what? Because what happens is when you come to that, that place, when you start to ask yourself or you start to tell yourself, okay, I did this. I think the relationship that let's let's say it's it's mom, dad, cousin, uncle, whoever right, all the people that you blame when that hate turns into empathy and you actually start to feel bad for those people and you realize that they're actually sick. When you change that from hate to empathy, I think then that question, whatever you're asking, like what's the next step? Then you get to the next step. Like the next step to me is like, once you trust that you're on that path, the next thing is going to come and you're not going to have to ask for it. I think so. I guess what I'm saying is.
Phillip:Stage one for me was looking at those people that I had such an anger towards that I wanted to literally hate and I separated from. And then I remember Eldar telling me hey, like with people that you have this towards hating them and separating them is actually not dealing with it. Dealing with it is realizing that I was wrong, that I took accountability, that I was actually part of it, whether you get taken advantage of or not. I allowed that behavior to happen from weakness, from not being in touch with myself, whatever. And now, because I'm dealing with it, if I did come in contact with that person which you did, which I did I don't have to then be afraid of that person. Then it's not. I hate that person. I can have love for that person, but I also see it for what it is, which is going back to being aligned with the truth that person's sick. You allowed yourself.
Phillip:I allowed a sick person to influence me. So actually everything makes sense. If a sick person influences a weak person, the weak person becomes sicker. So now I realize, okay, I'm getting back in touch with myself, I'm becoming stronger, seeing things for what they are. That person is a sick person. I can have empathy now for that person. Now, just because I'm around them, they're not influencing me anymore, so I'm coming from a stronger place, but I see that person for what they are. Before I saw that person as a strong, influential person. That person had a totally different meaning to me.
Phillip:Now I'm in a different group and it took for me to be sick and tired of that feeling, realizing that something's not serving me. I needed a different change of environment. I got that. Now I can call things for what they are, which is then the simplified version of being aligned with the truth. So I guess the simple of it is making maybe a list of the people that you have relationships with, whether there's anger and hate. Where's the gauge? Over time, does it turn into sympathy, is there empathy, is there understanding of what that person's dealing with, or do you still hate that person?
Eldar:The example is having you, having this example now with your family.
Phillip:I think everybody has this.
Eldar:She's having this. She's having this exactly thing that you wanted to talk about with your therapist.
Phillip:I would say that for my gauge, any relationship to me, anybody experiences hate or love on the extreme examples and if you are somebody in your ego, there's a very good chance that people can just blanket and call it society. But if you have individuals to do it, I think it's a better gauge because a personal example to me would hold more weight Because you have to me, especially a mom or dad or somebody you grew up with. You're going to have more time at least to point and gauge that level that you grew with or got influenced by. Okay. Yeah, I hear that. What?
Speaker 3:No, yeah, I had to squeeze this one out Underneath him.
Katherine:He was not happy Do you agree with that, though I do agree with that To gauge the level of anger, to put it on.
Phillip:Like I said she has a very I'll tell you I'm not going to say that.
Eldar:But I think she has an example of her. Like I said, she has a very I'll tell you she has an example of family about this right now, this kind of stuff.
Phillip:Yeah, but do you hear? What I'm saying Is that if you attach it to society which I still think, it could work I think it's hard to gauge over time, because I think it's hard to point like, oh, this TV show or this thing influenced me. If it's a person, I think it's a better example because, especially if they're alive over time, you can actually have real life interactions with people, if you're lucky enough to have that opportunity, to then say like, okay, where am I now and does my blood boil when I'm around?
Eldar:them. The idea of taking a phone call from them or texting them.
Phillip:Or do like do.
Eldar:I have Am I standing up for myself, yeah.
Phillip:Yeah, am I standing up, or do I have just an indifference to the situation?
Mike:I look at it a little bit differently, but I'm not sure what you're saying. Like I wasn't thinking about it from empathy perspective. I was thinking about it Like the more of the accountability, like the goal to me is to prove to yourself once and for all that you are actually an idiot. And by saying like, hey, not a situation, that person not taking advantage of me, I allowed myself to be taken advantage of and really dig in and say, okay, why? Well, I was desperate, I wanted it for me at least. I wanted to hang out with somebody because I was running from my problems, I didn't want to be home Lonely. And that person suspected me. Why? Because I already initially disrespected myself. Yeah, by not facing the shit, by running from my problems, yeah, you know. So I didn't look at his empathy, I looked at it as the goal.
Eldar:Well, no, he's also it's the same thing Accountability starts there. So what I'm saying?
Phillip:is that the accountability starts with that. You do recognize all those things. I agree with those. So then, what happens is, once you do gain an accountability, but empathy, I think, is like a is like a next step, next step, yeah, but it's part of it.
Eldar:He, he, he's summed it up that way, yeah.
Phillip:You need to have the accountability first, because you're not just going to go, you're not just going to go from having a hate to somebody to having the empathy. What I'm saying is that the guide from going from one to the other is accountability realizing you were in a desperate state, weak. Somebody took advantage, okay, great, now what? What is that person? That's a sick person that I allowed to influence me. So it's like wait, why am I mad at a person who's sick? I should be mad at myself. And now it's like okay, now I'm feeling better, and now it's like wait a sick person if you're, if you're coming from a good place and you have a good heart.
Phillip:A sick person like I don't, I don't hate, like I almost feel bad for them, you have to. Yeah, yeah, like growing that thick skin is being able to have a heart towards people who are maybe ugly in a sense or treat you bad. Yeah, so that's me. If we're talking about thick skin being able to show your heart and true colors in a situation that most people would maybe shy away from, to me there's strength, there's a lot of strength. In that I agree 100% agree with this.
Eldar:Yeah, 100. 100.
Katherine:Yeah, yeah, it's too much.
Eldar:Okay, no problem, we're gonna wash your head.
Katherine:Good stuff.
Eldar:Oh, good stuff. Thank you, guys, this was great Again.
Katherine:Thank you. Thanks for watching.