120. Navigating Memory, Transformation, and Truth in the Pursuit of Authentic Selfhood

Have you ever caught yourself in a moment of sheer clarity, only to find it slip away like sand through your fingers? Our latest episode is a heartfelt discussion about the elusive nature of memory, personal transformation, and the pursuit of objective truth. Join me, alongside esteemed guests, as we share intimate stories on the painstaking journey of rewiring our neural pathways and reshaping our interactions, from the confines of family dynamics to the broader strokes of societal relationships. We'll unravel the tapestry of our past, confront deeply ingrained habits, and reveal the strength it takes to align with our truest selves.

Life's complexities are often magnified under the lens of personal growth, and as we navigate through the murky waters of subjective and objective realities, we invite you to reflect upon your journey. Together, we dissect the courage needed to embrace honesty in our interactions and the transformative power of acknowledging our shortcomings. Our conversations nod to the wisdom of historical figures and the teachings that promise enlightenment, while also probing the authenticity of gurus in modern society. As we tread this path, the interplay between identity, attachment, and the pursuit of happiness becomes strikingly apparent.

Wrapping up, we contemplate the greatest opportunities for growth that life generously offers, often disguised as challenges and pain. These are the moments that define us, that chisel away at the superficial to reveal the bedrock of our character. We examine how the quest for self-respect and leadership within relationships can pave the way to a life of authority and authenticity. So, as we lace up our sneakers and hit the basketball court of life, let's explore how setting boundaries, developing resilience, and celebrating joy can not only transform our gameplay but also enrich the very essence of our being.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Exploring Memory and Personal Change
• 12:23 Family Relationships and Personal Growth
• 22:47 The Journey to Objective Truth
• 28:26 Objective vs. Subjective Realities for Happiness
• 35:58 Objective Truth Through Social Interaction
• 41:07 Navigating Subjective and Objective Realities
• 51:20 Understanding Truth, Happiness, and Attachment
• 1:01:25 Understanding and Breaking Attachments
• 1:12:21 The Biggest Growth Opportunities Discovered
• 1:15:59 Leadership and Self-Respect in Relationships
• 1:26:36 The Role of Gurus in Society
• 1:40:22 Relationship Boundaries and Respecting Boundaries
• 1:48:26 Exploring Awakening and Character Development
• 1:57:07 Exploring Fun and Memory Connections
• 2:02:16 Memory Selectivity and Coping Mechanisms
• 2:06:13 Navigating Growth Through Pain and Change

Transcript

Toliy: 0:00

On this week's episode the true liberation is when, like an objective change like that happens, where it's like you feel differently, the people around you feel differently about you, yeah, and then that's just like a forever like, or so you just define hell. Oh, absolutely yeah, you define hell. Yeah, you will get hit by it. I can guarantee you that Wow. I can guarantee you that Wow. Whatever you believe destiny or luck or karmic thing if you stumble upon this podcast, get ready to get on the get fucked express train.

Eldar: 0:34

You know what he's right? Yeah, today's topic is memory. And Toli, do you remember what kind of take you had on memory and how uh interested you were in this topic?

Toliy: 0:53

um, probably not word for word. No, okay, maybe mike can help out yeah we.

Eldar: 0:57

we talked about more so about, um, I guess, memory and how it relates to our awareness. Yeah, you know, right, what we talked about a lot of the times is that there are moments, you know, in our day or in our lives where we can have maybe let's just say for the lack of a better word like pure awareness of where, like our soul, let's just knows exactly what's right, knows exactly what's good for us, um, and we're in that zone or in that moment or that moment of focus, right, and we feel good. Obviously it fills us up with, you know, good feelings and all this other stuff, clarity, and maybe even gives us the guidance to continue living our lives in a better way. However, what a lot of times we see or we experience I think all of us is that, despite the fact that we had this nice little moment of clarity or awareness, as soon as life happens quote unquote we tend to forget those moments of awareness. We tend to kind of go back to regular programming almost, and maybe we can call that a subconscious programming, right, where we are more so asleep, right, and not aware.

Eldar: 2:22

So I wanted to discuss that a little bit more and I remember that you had a little bit of a take, or a little bit of, maybe, insight on this. Why this happens, you know, and what should we do? How can we practice whatever it is that we're practicing to keep awareness and not only make it a weekend thing, you know? Or like, people go to church right on Sundays, right, they pray, they do the right thing and they maybe get closer to God, right, and then they go Monday through Friday, maybe sinning, in order to then come back again and redo the whole thing over and over again.

Toliy: 3:03

Yeah, well, I mean, I think the two things that you're talking about redo the whole thing over and over again. Yeah, well, well, I mean, um, I think the two things that you're talking about like when we're talking about something and we have like, or or an individual has like clarity on something versus like them, them like like um themselves, um alone I think those are two different things. Um, we were also talking about. I think those are two different things we were also talking about. I think how this topic started was because we were talking about, I guess, people that have come into our lives. When they walk away, do they carry the things that we were talking about and do those have a lasting effect, do they still live on or do they go back to regular programming? I think that's what we were talking about too.

Mike: 3:49

Yes.

Toliy: 3:49

Yeah, my argument there is that, yeah, I think that they go back more to regular programming.

Eldar: 3:58

But my question was yeah, why do you think that? And also, when does that actually happen? When does that transition kind of goes back to the regular programming, and why does it go back right, and how long does it take, and is it same for everyone?

Toliy: 4:11

well, um, so why? Why does it happen? Yeah, well, well, I think again, like, um, I think that you can't underestimate how long it takes to uh to actually change and to uh to implement all of these different things and do that. It's not even and like I mean it, it it could be a time thing, like time combined with, like time practicing to like over over, override, like your previous habits. But, but what it's like if we change as a person, it's not like what happened didn't happen, it's like it's it still happened. It's still us. We're just like a, a different person now, potentially, like, if we've actually changed, but it's very hard to erase who you were. It's very hard to erase your idea of, like, who you are, um, it's very hard to change those things, especially because I'm very convinced that a lot of your adult life gets influenced by your childhood and how all that happens.

Toliy: 5:19

If you want to call it a nervous system, your brain Developed yeah, just how a nervous system like you're just brain, like, develop you're, you're, yeah, like, just like how that operates and how you're, um, brought up right. Are you brought up in a, uh, high anxiety zone? Are you brought up in a very calm zone. Are you brought up to be like more resourceful let's just say, handy type of personnel like person? Are you brought up in like a, uh say, handy type of personnel like person? Are you brought up in like a uh non-very, like resourceful like a way like so? Like all of those things I think have a very long lasting uh impression on you and for you to change those kind kinds of things I think require really a lot of uh of practice, a lot of talking and a lot of uh implementing and like a lot of talking and a lot of implementing and like a lot of really work.

Toliy: 6:07

And oftentimes I think people underestimate, like how much it actually takes to change and I don't think that it's like equivalent amount of times. Like if you've been doing something shitty or like wrong for, let's just say, 10 years, you probably need like 20, 30 years to undo it, to undo it of that, especially because, again, the times when we're making these changes is past our child like stage it's, it's it's it's when we're considered like adults. So in like any kind of implementation or change is very hard. Um, now, if we're're comparing it to when we're talking or thinking, I'm very convinced that in any moment, if we have three, four of us thinking about something, as long as it's within the realm of the things that we have some levels of knowledge or expertise, in that we will have a very, very easy time finding the right answers to things.

Toliy: 7:08

Um, finding the finding the right answer, I think in our circle is the probably one of the easier things I think, out there for us when we're all three, like you know, or four like, let's say, like focusing or like thinking about something, um, but when we separate those, that same level of like, focus or like or like power, that like we have together is not the same. It's not translated, no translate. You pretty much need, like, um, a piece of like who we three are, for example, together, to become you like, like, like in who you are. How, so well, repetition, yeah, that that goes through like, understanding through repetition, through, um, probably being honest with yourself, through like, yeah, experimenting with certain things, like, playing out certain things, trial and error, a lot of things, yeah, yeah, because it's very hard to change like that. That's just the reality of it, mm-hmm, it's very hard to change.

Eldar: 8:17

You almost feel like it's a you're trying to unchange a physical connection, right. That's been like almost hardened throughout the years your childhood years, right, and then almost solidified more than doing your adult health, adulthood right just for you to like, okay, cool. I want to be a critical thinker now. I want to think a little bit. But those connections are those connections, right, those habits are the habits. They're still the pathways that you take naturally, organically when certain moments happen, right, like if you decided that road rage is bad and you used to give middle finger all the time. Next time you have a moment, you probably will throw up the middle finger almost organically Like, oh fuck, oh shit, what do I do again? It's almost like in you habitually.

Toliy: 9:00

Yeah, that. And then, while you're realizing, while you're changing, yeah that. And then, while you're realizing, while you're changing, like you still have your um, a big portion of of your life that you don't think when you're doing actions, like you still. So you have that combined with, like your responsibilities, or like the life that you have already like chosen and made and like signed up for. Yeah, and those responsibilities are there and you still have to um like.

Toliy: 9:29

Adhere to them yeah, I guess that here is probably the best word to them. And then you still have a ton of actions that you do throughout the day, every day, that you don't even realize are happening, so it's even hard to even know, like, where are you actually like messing up, where are you going wrong? And how many non-thinking actions are you doing each day that are contributing towards not helping you?

Eldar: 9:51

but is the whole goal is to enlighten yourself to a point where you actually are aware when you do the things that you do, or at least that the actions that were not examined previously are now has been examined and installed through your awareness, through the proper actions. Right and now are habitually good actions, so you can kind of relax and not be aware about them because you doing the right thing without knowing almost yes, yeah, I think what, what you're saying is very, very hard.

Toliy: 10:21

Uh, it being so, it's very, very hard to have them to be just as part of, like, who you are, without having to think about them like that. It's like a next level. Yeah, it's already very hard just to be aware of what's going on and, like, consciously, do things and think about things the right way. Yeah, that's already a crazy next level.

Eldar: 10:39

Yeah.

Toliy: 10:39

What you're saying is like a beyond the next level.

Eldar: 10:42

Okay, so let's bring in a couple of actual personal examples. Mike, I think you can help us out with this one. What are some things that you've, you know, through your journey right of self-development, have that are actually an example of what I'm talking about, that you used to be a certain type of way which was the wrong way, habitually wrong, let's just say, have subconscious actions, you know, overwhelm your life and bring you stress. Then you sat down, thought about them, changed them, understood what needs to be changed, then consciously practiced them in the field, saw results. Now they're good. And now you've done it so many times that now there became subconscious actions, good, right actions that you don't need to put much thought into. You understand me? Yeah, Okay, Give us some examples.

Mike: 11:30

Well, we spoke about one not too long ago, maybe like a week or two ago. I asked you if you agree with my thing I don't know if you remember About, like, when we're doing something I'm always thinking about the next. Thing right, yeah, like always like what's next, buzzing for the future, right, and that definitely used to bring me like some kind of comfort, but it was also like a sickness itself was a sickness, you know and I was just like thinking about it, like yeah, I don't.

Mike: 12:01

I was thinking about that, I was like I don't do that anymore. Yeah, I don't think like that anymore. I don't like operate, I guess, um, and then that kind of was interesting, that it kind of happened. Yeah, you know, um, and it feels like natural to me, like I didn't, I didn't, uh, I don't think like okay, I gotta keep my mouth shut like don't say anything, or you're gonna look like an idiot or, like you know, like get caught.

Eldar: 12:23

But you had that process right. You went through the process of first being conscious about it and saying like yo, look, I'm gonna make an actual effort here to think before I speak, or whatever, and this and that you know what that one actually I think, um, there was there was no like direct thing of like learning to like, like really focus on that specific problem.

Mike: 12:42

Okay, but I think it was a side effect of slowing down, becoming more aware, being more in the moment. Okay. And then that problem itself got resolved because I wasn't living. So that's like even more interesting. Well, yeah, that's a different example then.

Eldar: 12:55

Yeah, give me an example which you actually thought consciously to say you know what? I'm going to go into this environment or whatever. I'm going to be different.

Mike: 13:05

Let's just say for now, kind of like thinking it through. Yeah well, with my parents and my sister, the interactions you know, uh, definitely a lot of that has changed. Uh, how I used to come in, I used to get excited, yeah, you know and get yourself in trouble, and get myself in trouble. Yeah, yeah, so that that's a huge one.

Eldar: 13:21

Um, but it's not um is it on autopilot now, where you're doing the right thing on autopilot, or no? Or is it still like a conscious effort, like okay, cool, like, look, this is a dangerous environment. I need to be on my you know my toes here with my dad, uh, yeah.

Mike: 13:43

More so with my sister? No, what about your mom? My mom, yeah, I'm good with her. Yeah, I don't have that. She doesn't really, I don't have those moments with her.

Eldar: 13:52

Why the difference between your mom, your dad and your sister?

Mike: 13:56

Oh, I think, with my sister, I have that soft spot for her that we were talking about. I have that soft spot which I'm discovering now where it's coming from and why. I have that soft spot which I'm discovering now where it's coming from and why, and I am actively thinking about it and being careful with her. Now, okay, not to get involved or drag myself into certain situations that usually come from excitement. You see something, you get excited about it and before you can think, you're already commingling in areas you shouldn't commingle, you know, or allowing for disrespect to come in?

Eldar: 14:31

Yeah, how long did that take With your dad, with my dad? And did you see, or did you witness the transition between being very strict about it and conscious versus it? Now you relax. I did see that. Yeah, because in the beginning.

Mike: 14:48

When I first started doing it I mean, it's probably gonna be over two years, you know, since I started you know, initially started working on that my sense of time is a little bit off, but probably at least two years uh, in the beginning I was like I was like, okay, I'm going home. I'm about to see them. Pay attention, be aware, be conscious of what's going to come at you. Set your boundaries, yeah, set the boundaries, but yeah, that was definitely a more conscious effort. And then, when did it transition?

Eldar: 15:25

I don't know, there wasn't something that in my mind that transitioned maybe from seeing success a little bit, you know okay like uh when did you, when did you almost like maybe learn to trust yourself that you got it, like hey, like relax, like a little bit, almost telling yourself like you wouldn't have to be so on guard? Let's just say Because first you're on guard, yeah, yeah, by expecting a shot, and now it's like okay, we got this, we see success, we're good at this. Like I want to know that little transition between when this happens?

Mike: 15:55

Yeah, I think what you're asking for is when I maybe what I'm thinking is when you're did I take a stance opposite to the one I had before? Yeah, and it became yours and it became mine. How did that happen and when?

Eldar: 16:07

yeah, or did you pay attention to that transition and how does that transition work? So maybe people that are listening can get a better idea as to like, okay, cool, like I'm working here, totally saying like, look guys, truth of the matter is which is crazy, which I, to a degree, agree with him right, if you went 10 years doing a stupid action and you being bad, you need 20 years to undo that. You know what I mean. Realistically, right, to really rewire your whole fucking system, your values, your belief systems, then your actions, your habits and all this other stuff. Right, you said, hey, like it probably took about two years with something like this, right, but the intricate details are in there, that like there were steps that had yeah, yeah, I mean that now it's inside of your memory and it's you, it's your identity that it's no longer you know flip-flopping, making mistakes.

Mike: 17:04

Yeah, I don't know the answer to the question, like when did I have that Convert? Conversion, yeah.

Eldar: 17:12

Toto, you have an idea, but you've come to witness his transition too.

Toliy: 17:16

Well, yeah, but I mean including on my own things as well. I feel like one of the things I've learned, I feel like over, like the years, is I like personal account mm-hmm. I think is a deceiving, it's deceiving.

Toliy: 17:34

Yeah okay, I know yeah okay because, like, for example, I think that Mike improved a lot. Yeah, it's probably a night and day, yeah for him, based on what's happening, right, but I'm not as convinced. I like if we were able to put on harry potter's invisible blanket whether like to, to whatever standard, I don't know that. Let's say you have when you with, with, with your family, or maybe, like I definitely don't have, but but maybe I envision would be oh good, right, I don't know if it's on that level, okay, that's only because, should it's on that level and that's only because again, but should it be on that level though?

Eldar: 18:07

Well my standard might be my standard right, and if we see improvement for Mike based on what he said before hey, I was very stressed out and I saw how I got in trouble, but no longer get in trouble and that's improvement for him.

Toliy: 18:19

And that's more than enough saying but the personal account level is tough because, like you, can't account for what you're unaware of, it is happening which is just universally impossible. You can only know like of what you like see and what you understand yeah, yeah right. That's why I think that, like, the non-personal account is probably the best account for what's actually like going on.

Eldar: 18:48

Yeah, you're right If you were a fly on the wall. You could kind of more dissect it and see it. But that's where it comes, to him sharing the more he shares. That's what we always talk about. Hey, if you share actually in some of the pitfalls like he shared with what happened with his sister Emma right. Like he said, hey, I got in trouble here. Shared what happened with his sister Emma right. Like he said, hey, I got in trouble here. This is why this is the pain I felt afterwards. And then we're like okay, cool, there's more girls in that house, there's more things to uncover, there's more problems to resolve before you become more competent.

Eldar: 19:16

And he kind of is aware of this. You know what I mean, where he gets in trouble. But I agree that maybe the standard uh can be higher or elevated.

Toliy: 19:23

Yeah that that's why I think it takes like more than two years and more to, because there's, there's, there's I mean, there's 20, 30, you know, 40 years worth of relationship, yeah, and worth of memories and habits and things like that. Yeah and um and like, like it's, it's. It's also not a situation where, like, okay, like let's say that, like, I mean, like, I'm sure you obviously like spend time with them, but like, my assumption is that you don't spend a lot of time with them, right, because like you come to work, you go to the gym, like you're doing your own stuff, like you may see them briefly in the morning and then briefly at night and then that's it.

Toliy: 20:06

yeah, like for like the most part, right, yeah, I don't spend like a crazy amount of time with yeah, now, if you take that away, let's say, now he spends as much time with them as he spends with us, for example yeah what happens now? Yeah right.

Toliy: 20:20

So it's like yeah, it's everything's elevated, everything is elevated and the dynamic is relevant and that might be an overwhelming thing where it's like, yeah, it's, everything's elevated, everything is elevated and the dynamic is, and that might be an overwhelming thing where it's like, yeah, like right, but those those things just get let out slower because you naturally have less interaction, more buffer zone. Yeah, yeah, with those kinds of people, yeah, and I think people that see each other less are I, I think, more likely to behave better than people that probably see each other more, that are that have some kind of like you know, beefs here and there, right, like, um, like, like, if I don't go to my parents house for a week, everyone's gonna be so nice, so kind, so like, can I get you this, can I do this? Can I do that we go back to like living together every day?

Toliy: 21:01

I mean like you can see how people interact people are gonna be nasty to each other because it's like yo, you're every day, like like the comfort level is like to the point where, like, people just piss off at each other and things are not like um addressed or like uh, handled are handled right. But yeah, when you don't see each other, a lot that does happen, it's just a slow drip over time.

Eldar: 21:25

Well, listen, at the end of the day, though, I agree with you, but at the end of the day, I think that a lot of this type of progress has to be you know, has to be reliant on like subjective account too. You know what I mean, because, like it's his subjective view, it's his life, his life, it's his happiness levels, right, were not in his head, so, like, if he's seen clear improvements, then it's his clear improvements.

Toliy: 21:50

No, I think that there's definitely clear improvements, but I still think that you need to nail it objectively for you to feel the happiness that you're looking for. Otherwise you'll be confused. Yeah, I agree, um, at some point, because at some point there's going to be a breaking point between, like things that are happening that that person's not aware of, yeah, and then what they're envisioning, not unfolding out and they're not going to understand. Like, wait where?

Toliy: 22:19

am I going to my account, like this is what's happening to my understanding, but then there's a not like sense of like fulfillment or happiness that's happening, and I think that's where you get confused, and that and that, and then, like on a moment-to-moment basis, that's probably when you seek help or when you like bring something to the table because it's like something happened. Yeah, you're almost like not sure, like how did this?

Toliy: 22:40

even it was an inconsistency that you've yeah witnessed, yeah, yeah yeah, and and then you, you kind of like, you know, go through those things slow, slowly. But I think that the true liberation is when, like um, like um, what, when like an objective change, like that happens. Where it's like um, you feel differently, the people around you feel differently about you. Yeah, and then that's just like a forever, like aura, okay. Right.

Toliy: 23:07

Like your dad's not going to walk into your house and tell you like shut your fucking mouth. Yeah, like do you ever envision that?

Eldar: 23:12

happening. Yeah, no.

Toliy: 23:13

No Right, but I don't know, maybe to somebody else. It's a perfectly normal phenomenon. Who would say that we?

Eldar: 23:22

can bring up a couple of people, but we probably shouldn't.

Toliy: 23:25

Yeah, maybe their dads would go into their apartments and tell them, like yo, shut your fucking mouth. Yeah, yeah, you know.

Eldar: 23:33

No, I get it. Yeah, and again. Then, what you're talking about is a consistency of character which comes from a level of awareness that's been like you said objectively solidified.

Toliy: 23:47

Yeah, I. I think, for example, like uh, for, for mike at least, like um, he will feel at a different level of of happiness and a different level when he feels a particular way towards his family and his family feels a particular way towards him.

Toliy: 24:00

Yeah, and then that is like a line in that way full circle and that happens when there is an undeniable, objective change that you have that is so overwhelming that the like it, it's like that, that, like a cheesy quote, but like in your circle it's, I mean, it's, I mean, it's very true. It's like you want to change the world. Change, change yourself, correct, and the world around you will change right, yeah you operate a different way, you move a different way.

Toliy: 24:25

As a Oleg would say, you move different than the world around you and the people around you are going to move different. They would have no choice in the matter. Because it doesn't make sense.

Toliy: 24:37

It doesn't make sense for your dad to walk into your house knowing who you are and tell you to shut your mouth, that is not nearly acceptable and that would be like such a crossing of a line, yeah, that like no one's even close to like or or like yeah, if your dad walking to your house and just like hit, um, hit you in the back of the head, like intentionally, because he was upset with you like. That is not where near in the realm of like what's acceptable, but there are households where that's completely fine, yeah even though you're bringing up hitting in the back of the head.

Eldar: 25:08

Sure is like a maybe a physical, vivid example. But in the case of Mike's example with the sister, that's what exactly would happen right when she, when she, mouthed off to him and said hey, what about you? What are you doing over here?

Toliy: 25:21

made an example out of him, kind of thing, that's a smack in the head yeah, yeah, 100% and if the relationship is at a different level there's no chance some of that person would say that kind of stuff to you, because it would be crazy yeah, well, that's what he's striving towards to marry all those things yeah alright, yeah, but I think, until that objective change happens there, there's still like a uh, like a drop-off rate uh, yeah, a drop-off rate, and then there's like still an unhappiness that will still linger, linger in your life.

Toliy: 25:58

Yeah, some frustration yeah, part of why, again, it takes so long, because it's nobody's aware of every single action that happens every single moment and able to interpret it in either reflective times or in real time and understand, okay, like here's what happens.

Eldar: 26:14

Yeah, and you, you kind of like there's so many moments, like you said, in life. Yeah, you know from day to day reality that how can you be so aware to be able to extract what you want out of reality every single time, what you actually want? Yeah, that's very difficult yeah, yeah, yeah it's.

Toliy: 26:29

it's like, for example, if you want to bring in my, my example, it's like when you're having me do different things and like, um, different, so like like different things in my day, you you said numerous times, you don't understand how this affects you. Then, at that time of what happens, like beforehand, how that influences like the moments that I'm talking about, for example, like anxiety or different stuff, like that. Yeah, but I don't necessarily connect those things or see those things yet, or all of them. Yeah.

Toliy: 26:59

But over time, you start connecting them, you start seeing them, you start understanding how, like time you start connecting them, you start seeing them, you start understanding how, like, okay, like, this kind of habit helps, this way of doing things helps, this doesn't help, this actually makes it worse. Right, yeah, but like you as the outsider are able to objectively see those things and understand those things, but you as a person, you just don't see it, you don't get it, you know all right.

Eldar: 27:20

So then the next question is then how? How do you make objective truth infectious, if that's even possible? So a lot of times, right, we get excited about stuff and we want to implement it or try it out and do things, because maybe we see the light at the end of the tunnel, we see that this is going to make us happy or whatnot right. The end of the tunnel, we see that this is going to make us happy or whatnot Right. But what totally is calling for is like, look, you need to get to a place where objective truth is embodied inside of you, in and out, and that it's. It became you, it becomes you. So my question was how do you make it, this objective truth that we're trying to peddle let's just say, if we are pedaling that um infectious enough for people to gravitate towards it a little bit more and be able to embody it?

Eldar: 28:10

you know, it's almost like taking away from the, from the power of it, by saying quicker, you know the word like okay can you do it quicker I'm like you know, and I think what totally was probably right about is that the shit ain't quick. You know what I mean. The truth of the matter is that if you've been living a very subjective life, right with your own palliative appetites that have been getting you in trouble for a very long time, that your ass better, you know. Buckle up and be ready for decades worth of personal work and grow, you know, personal development in order to undo all the fucking nonsense. I think he's right about that.

Toliy: 28:50

Yeah, I think like happiness happens when you're subjective feelings line up with objective, with objective ones, and when you're able to live in that kind of like reality like you're always guaranteed to be happy. Like okay, like you failed at something yeah, all right, well, life. Like. You're always guaranteed to be happy, like, okay, like you failed at something yeah, all right, well. Like objectively, what happened?

Mike: 29:07

like you didn't do enough research, like you weren't gonna count for this you weren't prepared, all right.

Toliy: 29:10

So like, like your feelings should line up with that. It's not like how many times you hear like, well, fuck the world, fuck this shit. You know like I gave it my hardest.

Toliy: 29:21

You know like that, like that's constant subjective accounts not aligning with objective truths, or like you know, people not being able to get hired for particular jobs or stuff like that, like what is really happening in those moments yeah, and oftentimes um, at least from my observations, is that like um, when I see others, people like others complaining about things, or just like um saying certain things, like yeah, the, the objective truth of what's actually happening is not um lining up and that's also why there's like um. A huge part of the world revolves around like conflict, right, like and and like like.

Toliy: 30:04

I feel you you get entertained by it, by like, not not necessarily like participating in it, but just observing how people act, what people think like like when you go on, like the clubhouse rooms or like on X or like these are different types of platforms, you see, like I don't know, like you'll go where like black women feel particular ways about black men. But then you have black men who feel, for example, particular ways about black women, right. Or you have, like um uh, israelis feeding, feeling particular ways about like I don't know, let's say, palestinians or palestinians feeling particular ways about israelis. Like, yeah, ukrainians feeling about like all these different examples of people feeling particular ways, right. But the reality is is that if everybody was objectively lined up, there would be no conflict.

Eldar: 30:53

There would be no conversation.

Toliy: 30:55

Yeah, this would not exist. But these conflicts only exist because you have groups of people that live in subjective realities and don't objectively understand what's going on, and the reality is that both parties are missing information and not understanding something. But then what happens is that which I'm not sure if that's how, I guess, god designed mankind, or what not. It just so happens to be that there's a lot of people like you in every kind of thing that you could be, that there's a lot of people like you in every kind of thing that you could think of. There's a lot of black women, there's a lot of black men, there's a lot of Israelis, there's a lot of Palestinians, people that identify with a lot of other identities. There's young white, let's say, entrepreneurs who are aspiring.

Toliy: 31:39

There's young black entrepreneurs and anything. Give me anything yeah you are not a one individual. Yeah, like trans people, gay people, straight people, lesbians everything, the groups, everywhere you have.

Toliy: 31:52

You, you have a lot of people like you out there, yeah, and what happens is that, uh, when there's a lot of people like you out there, you kind of like um, unite maybe in some kind of ways and your anger or you being wrong is like more justified and like not like uh checked a lot of the times because there's relatable things, which is why our famous thing is like nobody wants to be on the island yeah, right, and when you're put on that island yeah, when you're on the island, you everyone feels a particular type of way, but in the world out there there's no such thing as this island, unless you collectively feel that you're part of an island.

Toliy: 32:29

which drives again like that's what drives anger right, is when, collectively, people feel like they're being discriminated towards or maybe they're being oppressed or maybe they're being targeted. Right, those people are angry together and it just drives it. It drives like the flame right, because they're collectively on an island together. Yeah, so yeah, I think that if everybody-.

Eldar: 32:54

Which is crazy right. Well, no Well it's a normal phenomenon.

Toliy: 32:58

It's a very normal phenomenon. Yes, right, yes, that again that behaviors are very similar, people are very. Again, people say they're very different.

Eldar: 33:07

But they're not. So the question is how do you transfer this knowledge, body of knowledge that you just talked about to an individual who's actually part of that island?

Toliy: 33:13

Yeah, there's no fast way. Again the only fast way again is if you understand this and you have a kid and you raise that kid right away from that way. Okay, if not, that that's it. All dog has a heart. Yeah, if not that your life is dedicated to doing this.

Eldar: 33:39

But by design, though, it was made in such a way where life will teach you slowly, right, it will teach you slowly, right, it will teach those people Slowly, yes, through pain, through pain, yeah, mike. Well, you're going to learn, whether you like it or not. Mike, you're going to learn, I know, you know. Yeah, it goes back to the episode number one. How do we have more fun? How do we remember to have more fun, right? How do we calculate, make calculations in such a way where fun is more the default, right, like you said, like, hey, yeah, sure, you know there's a lot going on in the world, a lot of people you know, identify with all these things. But how do you see that? How do you not get swayed or get into that same tumbleweed, fucking shit, you know, with all those people, society preaching you? One way, you know, how do you stand on your own understanding and be empowered enough and have fun, because that's what, ultimately, it is right, fun equals happiness, right? Happiness equals fun, right?

Toliy: 34:51

Yeah, you know what I'm saying, the more fun you have, you know, the happier you'll be. Yeah, but again it's like you're only really having fun when you're having again like objective fun. Yeah. When you're having like fun yeah. And then you're only really having fun when you're having again like objective fun yeah. When you're having like fun, but then you're guilty afterwards for example, yeah and again you're having fun, but then you're still paying on the back end On the back end, or you're still not able to fully enjoy it, enjoy it.

Eldar: 35:13

yeah, right, like you said, confusion.

Toliy: 35:15

Yeah, so like again, like the life goal is lining the objective truth with what's happening to your own reality.

Mike: 35:27

Alright, is it possible to fully line up permanently, like the way you're describing it? It's like the way at least I'm, you know, thinking about. It is like you line up or you don't, but to stay always lined up, I'm not. Is that possible?

Eldar: 35:42

I think that's what we're reaching for. I think that's called enlightenment.

Toliy: 35:44

yeah, I think that's what we're reaching for. I think that's called enlightenment. Yeah, I think it's possible For in general people out there, probably including us, probably very unlikely. Yeah.

Mike: 35:58

But how does that process look of getting there?

Toliy: 36:01

Well, I think the process of getting there is one um learning, not even applying to yourself, but understanding, I guess, what objective truths truths are, to begin with, and what's objectively actually happening, and then um, um, learning the the craft of being honest, humble and humble, yeah, I think carrying humility is one of the big ones because then you keep an open mind to learning and being told that you're wrong and being okay with that, and then do that many, many, many times up until you've discovered, like you said, objective truths that actually line up with reality of the world.

Eldar: 36:40

You've discovered, like you said, objective truths that actually line up with reality of the world, so then you can finally embody that long enough for a long time, right, so then it can, it can rewire you. Yeah, essentially.

Toliy: 36:54

Yeah, and and, and I think that that, um, like, if you want to say God, um, I think it was absolutely intended for humans to be social beings. I think it was absolutely intended for humans to be social beings there, there's no way around that because, um, I am not convinced that you can do this stuff without loans. Yeah, you always say that. I'm not convinced, because I'm not convinced that you'll be able to get out of your subjective reality without someone else, Because for you.

Toliy: 37:20

I, I, I do think for you to line up objectively, you you need to up objectively, you need to not get another person's perspective per se, but you need others to see what's going on. You need observation. I need to see how you go about your relationship, for example. I need to see how you go about your relationship, for example, without ever seeing that I don't know if I could fully understand what's a proper one.

Mike: 37:52

You're like a bouncing board.

Toliy: 37:53

I need to see what's also a bad relationship, and I've seen plenty of times as well, and I need to understand that and be like look, clearly this is not good, clearly this is good, and then humans need that social element of of it, because I think the less social you are, um, and and I'm not talking about just like oh, like you're like, just like I don't know, talking about random shit, or like just like just being um social, social in very particular ways, um, um, for you to, to, to change and for you to to understand things, otherwise, like you'll, you'll, you'll never be able to fully understand like right from wrong. You'll never fully be able to um, uh, align with like objective, uh truths or and you'll continue to double, to double fry the French fries Probably, yeah. Hee, hee.

Toliy: 38:52

Yeah, yeah, and I think that we see it in plenty of ways because the person that's kind of separating themselves and I think we have plenty of examples of that in the moment of them doing that, they kind of feel like it's a good thing, right. But I also think that those people, I'm convinced, are not understanding what they're actually doing, or like they're actually afraid of objective realities is what I think they're showing and then they're, and then they're but then you're assuming that we got the stuff I, I think in the moment, we, we definitely do, and there's no, uh, there's no denying that, absolutely not.

Toliy: 39:35

No, I'm not saying that it's always or like so then why is this not appealing? Well, because it's a it's very difficult, okay, it's very difficult, okay, it's more scary than it is good, until you can cross over the cliff of like that's what Mike talks about.

Eldar: 39:53

You got to jump. Yeah, you got to make the jump.

Toliy: 39:55

Yeah, until you understand that you're going to default to seclusion, because seclusion is a non-judgmental zone.

Eldar: 40:04

Yeah, yeah, you do a really good job of not judging yourself.

Toliy: 40:08

Yeah, for the wrongdoings, yeah okay yeah, because when you, when you, when you've had enough, for example, and you and then you kind of like if you want to call it like a runaway into seclusion, you'll never judge yourself in that time because you know that like you can't handle it, you know so you'll, either metaphorically or in reality, like run away in some kind of sense. You know, and I think we've all done that plenty of times, I've definitely done that, yeah, um yeah, I think it's a.

Eldar: 40:52

It's a very normal phenomenon, almost yeah, yeah, yeah.

Toliy: 40:56

And again, like that's where, where would I be running to in that moment? I'm running to my subjective reality that I like that's comfortable, that I think that I think I've created, that I think works for me and that I think is correct. But then I, without choice this is the crazy thing is that you, without choice, you feel the wrath of life. That is objective and that is not something that you can avoid.

Eldar: 41:20

Oh wow, you can't lie to yourself.

Toliy: 41:23

No, no, no. You can lie to yourself, but you're going to feel a pain that you cannot explain to yourself, which is you can't lie to yourself, which is the pain as a result of that. Yeah, but you may not know where it's coming from, but it's going to happen, it is going to happen.

Eldar: 41:37

That is more confusing than anything, then, holy fuck Well that's what.

Toliy: 41:40

That's why the subjective reality is confusing and the confusion zone is not a bad zone, because a confused person does not know that he's confused.

Eldar: 41:49

Yeah, so you just define hell.

Toliy: 41:53

Oh, absolutely yeah, you define hell. Yeah, you will get hit by it, I can guarantee you that Wow.

Mike: 41:59

Yeah, so you don't think the person knows.

Toliy: 42:03

Not a lot of times. No, if you do know you're lucky. Yeah, if you do know, yeah, yeah. If you do know, you're in a very, very small minority.

Mike: 42:12

And then you, at some point, you take some steps, do you not know at all, or you just choose not to know. But you know in a moment, in those moments?

Toliy: 42:24

No, I don't think that you actually know no, so how does that work then?

Eldar: 42:28

That's the thing. Like you don't know where it's coming from and how you got there.

Mike: 42:34

When I was in a bad relationship. I didn't know.

Eldar: 42:36

You didn't know no, but I knew no, you didn't. That's the thing.

Mike: 42:40

Yeah.

Eldar: 42:40

It's the confusion. No, I yeah, it's the confusion, I understand it's. That is hell, you understand. It's a complete cognitive dissonance of, on one hand, no, no I know that nobody knowingly like does wrong, but for that split moment you do know that it's wrong.

Eldar: 42:54

When we have those sober conversations doesn't mean the person does know doesn't mean anything, because those conversations, if had properly which we did, right, if you actually knew, if it was part of what you know, totally, talking about, like you, were solidified, an objective truth, right then it would carry over a little bit. But because of the fact that you know you shut off the light completely and still proceeded with doing the crimes against yourself that you did shows that it's a completely uh oh wow so what was it?

Mike: 43:26

in the moment when the conversations were soberly hot, you were under a spell so I didn't know, you didn't know shit.

Eldar: 43:34

So, just like whoever, whoever carried that, that over, probably me at that time, when I was trying to put clarity in there, I hypnotized you, you understand, for the moment I saved it, you know, because I brought clarity to it you agreed, your reason agrees with it.

Mike: 43:53

However, you're still asleep within that moment yeah, but the thing is, if I'm able to reason, understand it, who is that exactly? Who is that?

Eldar: 44:00

Exactly? Who is that? Who is that non-permanent self, me or you? Right? So what he said before, which I agree with right, what happens is right. What happens is that irresistible self that I was in that moment created the reality in you that you had no choice in. You understand, so you're playing my game within that moment and you're lining choice in. You understand, so you're playing my game Within that moment and you're lining up in accordance to what I need you to line up in.

Mike: 44:31

So do you think that process expedites the person's development or slows it down, or neither?

Eldar: 44:36

Well, it gives you a glimpse of hope. Probably Okay. Where, if played properly, which I hope, I did, right where you went out there and I said hey, mike, you know this is wrong. This is right. You're like I got it. I agree with you that this is wrong. I'm like Mike. I know it's hard to do the right thing. Go do the wrong thing. You're like yeah, I'm gonna go do the wrong thing. You went and do the wrong thing and I'm like you can come back, no problem.

Eldar: 45:03

You know what I'm saying. Like you have to do the wrong thing. That wrong thing is who's actually your character is. It's within the line of who you actually are. Of course, agreed, the coming back part right is the finally like the repentance, almost Like right, when you repent and you're like, yeah, that wasn't all right, but I needed to test that out, what's the right thing? So that's when it becomes, that's when it finally you become receptive to maybe entertaining objective truth. Now you know what I mean, but maybe for just so long where you can do it on your dad but you can't do it on emma yeah, like you can do it on totally but you can't do it on me.

Eldar: 45:43

You can do it on Toli, but you can't do it on me, and vice versa.

Toliy: 45:46

In that moment. You're a figment of imagination, correct, until you become like real. You're not real, like in that moment, like what's going on there is not like an actual real thing. You know it's not a real like. It's not like a actual, like a live thing. You're like, um, you're probably a figment of the other person's imagination that's able to connect with your imagination for the moment, for the moment to like agree upon something or be in a particular place, but it takes time to, yeah, turn that into like a living yeah.

Mike: 46:20

So you're saying yeah, it's like uh, you're not able to empower yourself and line up with the truth, so you need saying yeah. You're saying is like you're not able to empower yourself and line up with the truth, so you need somebody to give you like, a like a boost. Yes, but ultimately, the goal is that you can obviously be empowered on your own, so you can see things 100% so.

Eldar: 46:34

I was just kind of like a raft. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like alright cool, you need a little bit of air. Come up. Alright, got some air, I go back down. You know what I mean. You're like okay, cool, there is air somewhere. But I don't think it's a conscious thing, bro, which is a phenomenon well, yeah, that's what I'm trying to understand.

Mike: 46:50

Why does this happen? What do you mean? Well, like this crazy phenomenon that this, that, like you, have such a disparity?

Eldar: 46:58

yeah, because of the attachment of your subjective truths you have such a strong attachment to subjective truths that you're not yet aware of that bring you so much pain that you're not sensitive enough to understand that the pain hurts, right? So you only come out to gasp for air is when it really really hurts. And those moments is when you have that little pocket of freedom to be able to connect and understand. Right, because all you're doing is living out your own thing. But for the moment you come up for air, is you living out my air?

Eldar: 47:30

I'm letting you breathe, okay, you know, in agreeance yeah, yeah that's it, you know, up until you're like, yeah, you're right, you're like this is much better here, let me go and pave my own way. And now, like you, empowered, right, you, you're no longer just running out of a subjective truth, it's now objective for you, and now you can go over there and do your own thing, more so permanently. Yeah, that's very interesting actually. So what do you suggest, toli, for what? Well, aside from the fact that you have to be fucking social creatures, so what do you suggest, totally, for what? Well, aside from the fact that you have to be fucking social creatures, but motherfuckers that run away, what the fuck they doing? What do they got? You see, like, okay, mike, at least right, social creature wants to reflect, talk and stuff like that and share. But there's people out there that are fucking like you said. You know, they're just on the island with a thousand people and they still feel lonely. No, but when you say, what do you like?

Toliy: 48:24

you said you know they're just on the island with a thousand people and they still feel lonely. No, but but when? When you say, what do you, what do you recommend? Like, what do you suggest?

Eldar: 48:30

for those people, right, if you don't have, like you said, a proper social circle where you can go and say like, hey, this is my problems, to be on the fire for the moment, to dig for the objective truth.

Toliy: 48:48

What do you suggest?

Eldar: 48:50

There's nothing that you can do. That's crazy, yeah. So what do you wait for? What do you mean? That's crazy, bro. You say there's nothing you can do? Yeah.

Toliy: 49:04

What you're saying is that people are fucked yeah, the issue is that you can't like, can't work on something that you're not aware of so how can you recommend, like something that involves awareness to an unaware person? You have to just continue? That's a crazy question. You have to continue living your? That's a crazy question. You have to continue living your own reality up until like you, either by like, I don't know, like if you believe in karma, or if you.

Mike: 49:34

I can't say that what? Yeah, you can't say.

Toliy: 49:36

it's like Well, no, it depends on what you believe in.

Toliy: 49:41

You can believe in karma. You can say it's a matter of like, eventually you meet somebody or you stumble upon something and that's like your karmic thing. Someone might be like I don't believe in that. Someone might say like, yeah, I believe in this luck, like this was just luck, and you stumble upon something and then something happens.

Mike: 49:55

Yeah right yeah, but that's not like whatever. Like uh, is that a definitive answer? Well, like, like a world of objectivity and truth are you going to rely on? Say, oh, it's just your karma or just a luck, or stumble.

Toliy: 50:08

No, I'm saying that like how people explain it. Some people explain it like no, I know how people explain it?

Eldar: 50:13

No, but that's what it is. That's their reality, Mike.

Mike: 50:14

No, but I'm asking actually.

Eldar: 50:17

No, but that's actually what's happening to those people Like there's no, you can't attribute it to anything else but luck. You have to attribute it to a mere chance.

Mike: 50:26

Do you feel like you got here by chance, by luck?

Eldar: 50:29

I don't, you don't.

Mike: 50:33

Because I feel empowered. Yeah, but you feel that way now. But how did you get here?

Eldar: 50:37

Like through my mom and dad.

Mike: 50:40

Yeah, how'd you become If, totally saying people were walking around like this yeah, how did you get to where you are now? Yeah, because you were a body boy, bro. I remember where we met son Listen that was a different person.

Toliy: 50:53

man, yeah, but I would have to use the knowledge that I do know about recollection of probably the knowledge of the soul, right?

Mike: 51:05

What I'm talking about is just like how that person interprets, like what well, like what's going on, because, but how does that change for a person? You don't just all of a sudden say you know what, I'm going to interpret the world differently, right well, well, well, no, no, that's not what I'm saying.

Toliy: 51:20

Is that, like, once you, whatever way you have explaining it, of what happens, something happens and then, like, a new journey starts where, like, then you can, um like explain what happened or explain things, right, but I'm saying that up until that point, depending on what you believe in, is what's happening, right?

Toliy: 51:39

Um, like, again, one person can call it luck, one person can call it like this was destiny, yeah, this was my karma, right, um, another person can attribute it to some other thing, some other thing, right, like, there's like a bunch of different things, but then, from that time, you can like say that, like, well, now I'm in power, now I understand, like, this is what happened and this is what happened. What I'm saying is that, like for giving advice, like, at least in my account, like, like if, if, if, I just like, if, if you just remove, let's say, like, both of you from my life and we never met, like, yeah, I don't know what, like what, what would happen? Like I, I definitely don't envision anything positive happening. So, like, like I viewed, I, I viewed in, like, in, in, in that kind of way, how?

Mike: 52:38

can you call luck if you're a mush? No, but I get what you're saying.

Eldar: 52:44

You know what Listen we're talking about stuff that's like, okay, how do we get here? Yeah, my take is that I believe in reincarnation.

Mike: 52:57

Yeah, then you're saying we might be like you know those guys in the cave 5,000 years ago when we reconnected.

Eldar: 53:03

There is a reason why. Right, if they were objectively, if they were gravitating naturally towards objectivity and I am too I have no problem saying that we might be the descendants of some people that we fuck with right now, that are dead. Sure, Socrates, Plato, Jesus, Buddha, all the motherfuckers that had objective truths lined up with them. I have no problem saying that, that we might be within their circle, you know, somehow somehow connected to them. I have no problem saying that. That's how I feel. You know what I mean, Because I mean Socrates believed the recollection of the soul. Right, it's not. You're not getting any new information, You're not discovering new information. Now. It's your soul, right, that is in the plane of already objective truth. Right, it's inside of each and every single one of us, and through this lifetime we were just remembering the things that our soul already knows that's for sure, and I definitely feel that you know, and it makes me feel good do you?

Mike: 54:10

did you feel that always, or more intensely, when you fell in love? I felt that, since I discovered philosophy, since you discovered philosophy.

Eldar: 54:21

So always, always or more intensely, when you fell in love, I felt that, since I discovered philosophy Since you discovered philosophy.

Mike: 54:24

So always, well, no, not always Always since you discovered philosophy, yeah which was like 17, 18.

Eldar: 54:29

Yeah, and then obviously part of falling in love was intensifying everything.

Toliy: 54:34

Yeah, yeah, but I don't think that you can, that you could feel the love that you feel now without objectively lining up with particular things like you wouldn't be able to to feel those kinds of feelings. I agree with you.

Eldar: 54:46

100, you know that the only reason why I do feel the way I feel and feel good is because of the fact that I'm lining up and gravitating towards or valuing those things, those objective trips, oh yeah yeah, that that.

Toliy: 55:00

That's also why, like, I think that like elder has that trait of like, um, like at any moment he's um like, he's fine to hold court or to like put everything on the line, because I feel like um innately, he probably um knows that if he does not do that like, then he does not continue living like the life that like 100%.

Eldar: 55:22

You have 100%. I have to stick by what I believe all the time and I feel that and that's within me and that's what guides me. You know, I think that's one of the reasons why you guys are still sitting here and still fucking with me. You know, because you somehow line up with the same shit. You know, because you somehow line up with the same shit. You know what I mean Objectively the same mind as yours too, you know, yeah, and I think it feels good ultimately, you know, and I'm having fun, you know. And I'm having fun.

Eldar: 56:04

You know, and I think that the faster you marry those two, where you have the objective truth with that ability to have fun I think humor is a big one Right, then you can have like fill yourself exponentially with laughter, happiness and those types of joyous moments so you can be a happy person yeah, but I think that, um, the lining up of objective truth is, is the fun like that?

Toliy: 56:28

that, like, uh, yeah, like I like I don't think that you get something and then you have fun with it. You naturally have fun when you understand something, and it's actually true, because then you can. That's how you can incorporate comedy to things, because, like, how many times are you called out for like like talking silly about things? I feel like yo, yo, this is like serious yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love those right I love those, right it's like that person's not understanding something.

Toliy: 56:53

Yeah, you understand something. Yeah, and that's a a fun reaction to it. Fun reaction to it. You can't have fun when you don't understand something. I'm telling you right now if I don't understand something, I cannot have fun and I'm going to be probably a piece of shit. But then the other person who's understanding, they understand what's going on and they can have fun with it that's right.

Eldar: 57:19

Right, yeah, and I think part of having fun is having the ability to not hold those attachments to certain things that people do hold attachments to because they identify with it so much. So, yeah, it's a conundrum.

Toliy: 57:36

We are still fighting against what Buddha said about attachments being the big cause of our suffering yeah, that's why, again, like the, the lapse of memory, no, the the understanding of the importance of putting everything in the line at any moment. Is the anti-attachment? Yeah, it is, it definitely is at any moment. Is the like the anti-attachment? Like a thing? It is, it definitely is yeah, because attachment always proves to be like a blocker of learning or like a blocker of understanding see, but in the moment I'm not.

Eldar: 58:10

If I do do this in the moment, I don't actually think about it that way but like what he's saying, it sounds like an advanced thing right.

Mike: 58:23

What? Like what you just said. You have to be ready to hold court at any time.

Toliy: 58:27

Well it's definitely an advanced thing, yes, but it's the only way to be happy.

Mike: 58:35

And the other thing that you also mentioned earlier about that it takes 20 years. It's also an advanced thing where it becomes a second nature or part of you, right?

Toliy: 58:43

Well, yeah, but we're talking about individuals or we're talking about scenarios where you feel fully at peace in those things and you're able to fully have fun and enjoy them. So they're all I I think very much inherently very, very simple concepts, but the way that we need to talk about them is that, like, yeah, we need to say that the way that they are in relation to us, based on where we're at, they're extremely advanced things, yes, but like I said but to a kid but if you have that, if you have a kid and you understand this, they will be extremely simple concepts to that person oh, I think that this is going to be like fucking two plus two algebra yeah

Mike: 59:26

yeah, no, I agree. But I'm just thinking like, is the process right to get to what you're describing? You don't just arrive at that one day. There's a process that you have to go through.

Eldar: 59:43

Well, there's certain things that have to line up kind of yeah, you know what I mean, and obviously they probably revolve around virtuous thinking and action.

Toliy: 59:51

Yeah, that's why us understanding what's right and wrong is not the difficult part. That is extremely easy. So what's the difficult part?

Toliy: 1:00:03

Well, the difficult part is to yeah, yeah, well, like, yeah, going through the process of embodying that and you yourself aligning with those things, you yourself bringing out all those attachments, all ideas, uh, you, um, bridging the gap between awareness and unawareness, right, um, that that is your process in individually.

Toliy: 1:00:28

That is aside from, like, what's correct or not not. Not like, um, correct, right, yeah, like, I guarantee you, if we, right now, sat here and, let's say, we committed seven days of being together and we're just going to wherever we are, right here, we're just going to fall asleep and we need to rest and then, when we wake up, we'll eat whatever and we'll just continue the conversation, we took seven days to just write down everything that you suffer from and we, you know, have a crazy question answer session. Go through everything, um, I would almost guarantee that we have answers to everything. But after that seven days, it is gone. Even if we recorded all those answers, you would not be able to understand or feel the way that you'd like to feel from those kinds of things, because you would need to go on the journey of.

Eldar: 1:01:25

Practicing.

Toliy: 1:01:25

Again, of practicing those things, of understanding it and then bridging the gap of awareness and non-awareness.

Eldar: 1:01:35

Why didn't you check your sister, Mike, when she barked at you?

Mike: 1:01:40

Why? Because there's some unresolved issues there.

Eldar: 1:01:43

Yeah, you see, you didn't check her, yeah.

Mike: 1:01:45

Well, I did, but not like the way I should have.

Eldar: 1:01:48

Yeah, yeah, you see, yeah, that right there tells you that there's something going on, some kind of attachment, some kind of attachment, some kind of view, a world view that you see, that you cannot practice what the? Right thing is in that moment? No I get that?

Mike: 1:02:05

that I know. No, but my thing was the way he was describing it. He was like making it sound like, yeah, I don't know how to like explain it, but if you want to run a mile, there's no other way besides running that mile you cannot circumvent, so you have to take one step at a time. Yeah, so you don't just like, uh, become advanced. No, you know that that's what I'm trying to explain, that you got to where you are but you did the same exact stuff, um, in order to like get that. So you had to be unaware, then you became aware, then you became practicing. So, yeah, yeah, because the way totally is making it sound it's like it's such a far-fetched, unreachable thing. Well, it is, maybe. Maybe it's discouraging, it definitely is it is.

Eldar: 1:02:44

Yeah, yeah, I mean. But to who right if you a person of attachment like you?

Eldar: 1:02:51

said the people, the people that are on the island, identify themselves as, let's just say, black independent women or white independent males or whatever it is right. Your attachment to that identity right, depending how strong that attachment is right will define how fucking far you are right. And the thing is, the problem is he's saying that a lot of times, kidding me. Tell what the fuck attachments you have, because they've been so solidified in you internally that you're playing them out so automatically that you can't even call it for what it is. That's a crazy fucking problem.

Mike: 1:03:29

Do you understand this? No, I understand this.

Eldar: 1:03:31

You're suffering from that right now. You don't even know what you're suffering from. That's a given.

Mike: 1:03:35

Yeah, how do you help that? How do you help someone? You see that by knowing that well, that's a start.

Eldar: 1:03:41

First of all, knowing that and agreeing with that like wait a second, because then that that triggers humility, right, that triggers like yo and do not always feel like for anything that, like you, you realize or that, like you like agree with.

Toliy: 1:03:55

When you first get to that phase, you feel like you realize a lot and then, over time, you realize it was only a speck of dust compared to everything else. Yeah, why does that happen? Because, like you can realize something, there's no way you're going to get the picture that you're going to get until you go through like many hours and many days and many years of like. If you want to call it like therapy right, or like talking about it or practicing it, understanding it, or like problem solving it right or reviewing it, then you get an idea like, oh, like hey, like yeah, I'm just an angry person when it comes to this. Okay, this is what you think.

Toliy: 1:04:33

The issue is, the more you get into it, the more that you see that, like you're actually an angry person in every kind of thing, in every kind of activity or stuff like that. So, like, whatever problem that you thought was the problem, it always expands and it always goes further and further and further. Right, as you realize, and I have the capability to like understand more. Why were you willing to?

Eldar: 1:04:57

let your sister be exempt from the objective truth that you've discovered. You understand, I'll keep drawing the same point, because this is the point that he's talking about. You decided to have a little exemption box for the person. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, why Attachments?

Toliy: 1:05:21

why attachments?

Eldar: 1:05:21

attachments right, supersede what holding court? He said you ain't hold court. You were supposed to tell her yo, what are you talking about? You had to right there, break your relationship right there on the spot, and say I no longer fuck with you.

Toliy: 1:05:39

You stand over there and I stand over here, and this is the line, and it's not drawn in the fucking sand, it's a concrete fucking wall yeah, but the issue with doing that is again, when we're talking about for most people, that is them they're like, at least for me, for certain, for example, issues I have the feeling that you have internally. When someone says to do that, is you throwing everything away you feel the same way about this, your sister situation.

Eldar: 1:06:12

That's why you are scared.

Toliy: 1:06:14

I feel like that, yeah, you do how do I know that in those moments of feeling that like that person has, or like you know, if you're talking about your example? The feeling that you have is that for you to do what Elder is, for example, saying is that you would have to throw away everything that, like you guys, have ever had.

Mike: 1:06:36

But that's what it takes, right? Yes, okay, so explain that to me and not in hypothetical terms.

Eldar: 1:06:40

All right. So in order to solidify the character that you're practicing right, you have to willing to go deep and jump headfirst into the pool.

Mike: 1:06:52

Right, okay, but no, you said something about attachment.

Eldar: 1:06:54

Well, yeah, what's the attachment? Well, the reason why you didn't do it is because of the attachment of what he said, of throwing stuff away like what well, the, whatever it is that you're attached to, right history, your, your relationship, your relationship right and in that moment you identify with her somehow, yeah, if for you to do identity of this like holding of court thing, would be you you would, you would basically, it would be like you agreeing in that moment to kill your sister which you actually are

Mike: 1:07:31

doing. No, yeah, maybe I'll tell you what I think it is and then maybe you guys can explain it to me, because I'm not following exactly what you guys are saying and maybe you're saying the same. The way my sister is is because of the way I am, so the monster that she became is because I created it. So now for me to now do what I have to do to her, right.

Eldar: 1:07:54

Which is the right thing. Which is the right thing?

Mike: 1:07:56

Yeah, is not seen as just in your mind. Um, it's no, it's seeing, it's the right thing to do. But I also know that I created her like that and she is that way because of me. So therefore, you owe her what? So? Yeah, well, no, I don't think about that. But but thing is, that's why that's what the situation is why does she get the pass, though?

Mike: 1:08:19

That's the thing, because I was the one who created it when I was asleep at the wheel. So therefore she gets the pass. I don't know, no, I don't know, I didn't think about it, but what she should get, right she should get justice.

Eldar: 1:08:30

She should get justice.

Toliy: 1:08:31

yeah, right, yeah, by her do right by her yeah, and the way to do right by her is sometimes challenging her, but for some reason she's exempt, it's killing off a particular identity, understanding and identity that like you have and maybe she has, but like in that moment, you're not willing to do that yeah, but I think there's something that we're, that we're missing, then what is it?

Mike: 1:08:58

it's this, all this, no, but the thing is like I have to maybe something has happened that I have to accept that I did that I created this person take responsibility or accountability? For it maybe forgive myself. I don't know if that's the right thing, yeah, but maybe even ask for forgiveness from her. Yeah, oh, I did ask her forgiveness a while ago. Well, there you go, for all the stuff that I did, but I guess maybe I need to ask myself for forgiveness and see that, hey, I was blind.

Eldar: 1:09:22

No, I think that you need to grow a pair of balls, which you're trying to do, and confront that which needs to be confronted.

Mike: 1:09:34

Well, yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that.

Eldar: 1:09:36

Listen, we're talking about some of the things that come up and you just. This is a fresh example.

Mike: 1:09:41

Yeah, this is why I'm making it an example.

Eldar: 1:09:42

Yeah, of course I'm making it for what it is based on the conversation we're having. Right, you're sleeping, you choose to fall asleep.

Mike: 1:09:50

Well, because I was the one who drove her there. I created. Well, so what? No, I don't think it's just that simple. Well, because, until I take responsibility and let that thing go off myself, be like yo, I did this, I was drunk, I was at the week, I drunk at the wheel, sleep at the wheel, whatever. She became a monster. I contributed to this monster. I didn't know what I was doing at the time, like okay, like I have to like accept myself whatever. I'm not even sure what the process here. That's why I'm asking yeah, but that's, but that's.

Eldar: 1:10:17

You're not asking. Well, you're saying what's actually happening.

Mike: 1:10:20

Well, I'm explaining to what's happening, but I need to somehow process that. Oh no, You're justifying.

Eldar: 1:10:25

Right now what you're doing? You're going through the process of justifying as to why I choose not to imply virtue.

Mike: 1:10:32

No, I'm explaining to you guys because I yeah, I didn't think about this before. I just sat up and thought about it now. Yeah, so I'm explaining to you what actually is happening. Um no, and I get it, yeah, but do you not see that justifying so I can continue doing it? I'm no, no, no no, I know that.

Eldar: 1:10:47

I know that you're not trying to justify, justify to continue doing it.

Mike: 1:10:51

You're justifying why you did it yeah, so so I can make sense of it, so that I can process it. No, like, how am I supposed to understand why I'm making a mistake?

Eldar: 1:11:01

Well, no, I'd like for you to be honest as to what happened. I don't want you to justify it so you can understand it. No, I want you to tell me what happened. You know what I mean. Within that moment of ridiculousness that transpired, that transpired, you decided to be quiet, you decided not to push back, you decided not to ask questions. If that's the default that you're trying to get to right when it comes to your dad, your mom and others, right, and you do it very naturally, why was that not the same way to go towards your sister? There's some kind of attachment, there's some kind of relationship, there's some kind of relationship.

Mike: 1:11:38

Well, yeah, that's what I'm explaining to you guys, that's what I'm saying. Well, there you go.

Eldar: 1:11:41

There's no way to explain your behavior without justifying it, because, at the end of the day, you did what you did for your reasons. Yeah, now, if you're honest about your reasons, you can then maybe confront them and see whether or not they're serving you or not. Well, yeah, that's what I'm trying to do.

Mike: 1:11:56

I would like to confront them. I just didn't know what the process is now. Yeah, If I'm leaning towards, this is what happened. You know, based on you know me and you spoke, that I feel like she was the lookout for me, Plus, you know.

Eldar: 1:12:18

I helped to mold her and not have to Do you realize this is where the biggest growth can occur.

Mike: 1:12:21

No, I don't realize it yet. You don't realize that? No, but I'm not sure if I'm supposed to. Why is that? Why is what?

Eldar: 1:12:25

Why is that is not recognized that this is where the biggest growth can actually happen?

Toliy: 1:12:30

Well, because you can't be understanding and aware of something that you're not aware of.

Eldar: 1:12:35

You're going back to that?

Toliy: 1:12:37

Well, you can't jump around that, bro, that's crazy. Wow, well, do you not always see that? What's?

Eldar: 1:12:48

No, you're right, I'm not arguing you. No, what I'm saying is that compared to any of our things.

Toliy: 1:12:54

If you guys see something about me and I don't either see it or disagree with it, don't you feel that it's crazy to you? It is crazy, yeah, okay. And then now to the opposite spectrum. When I see something and I'm like that's crazy.

Mike: 1:13:10

Yeah, where I disagree with it. Right, that's my default. Yeah, but right now I can talk about it. Right now you can talk about it right, right now. Same thing with the relationship. Yes, okay.

Eldar: 1:13:22

So it's, it's right now. You can talk about it, right, we can bring awareness to it. To me, it is the biggest gain for you. For you, it is not the biggest gain for you. That is the disparity, clarity. Do you understand that? Because even though it's an attachment, I see how huge this attachment is right to your previous past. Let's just call it or whatever the fuck it is.

Eldar: 1:13:46

You know what I mean that when you finally cut this cord, you're done with it. You finally jump. You know what I mean you finally did right for you, you did right for her and going forward, despite the fact that it might feel like totally says it's a fucking breakup. No, it's the biggest makeup is it?

Mike: 1:14:03

is it? Maybe I'm not understanding it, but I don't feel like it's a breakup. Well good, because it's not. Am I supposed to feel like that?

Toliy: 1:14:10

you so in the moment in the. Moment you act, you do feel like it's a breakup that's what you don't do unconsciously well, yeah, but but that's like, if you really thought about it, I think that you can get to it. I'd like to get to it.

Toliy: 1:14:23

Because, there's a Attachment For you to act how you act. There's going to be a short-term infliction of a crazy pain yeah Right that you, in that moment, are going to potentially inflict on another person and you're going to feel that, yeah, and that feeling is a feeling of like you killing somebody.

Mike: 1:14:44

Have I not done this to anybody else before? Is that why I never? I can't relate to this feeling.

Eldar: 1:14:48

No, no, no, no no, I think that you've done to some degree, maybe on a small degree, but, like I said, it's the areas where you have the most attachment is the biggest growth that can happen. So it's a really, it's an identity suicide within that moment.

Mike: 1:15:04

That's what totally says that Is it identity suicide for me and for her?

Eldar: 1:15:08

Yeah, so it's changing your sister, how she is going forward with you.

Toliy: 1:15:20

But in that moment you're going to inflict a crazy amount of pain on her and you're going to, and in that moment you're going to feel it, which is why, when these moments come up, you don't do it, because the outlook of it yeah. Yeah, the outlook of it is too bad right now, you know this does not mean that you can't do it.

Eldar: 1:15:38

I think you will do it and I think you understand the importance of it and with due time you will have an opportunity to do it and do it properly. You know what I mean. I think you can do it, but nonetheless, this is your bar. You know what I'm saying. This is the bar of violation. You know what I'm saying. This is the bar of violation. You, over here, when I signed you up tomorrow right to go pick up the grill, or Sunday to pick up the grill, you said yo, eldar, excuse me.

Mike: 1:16:07

I didn't say anything, you did say something.

Eldar: 1:16:09

I didn't say anything, you did. You had a reaction, mike, you had a reaction, I had a reaction, you did. Oh, okay, totally. I don't remember when I said, hey, you're going to go with Toli you know what I mean to pick up the grill on Sunday, mike had a reaction. He's like yo yo, wait a second, wait a second, don't sign me up for that kind of thing.

Mike: 1:16:27

No, you said don't sign me up for that kind of thing.

Eldar: 1:16:33

No, but you had some kind of reaction where you disagreed, like yo, wait a second, I'm not signing up for this fucking trip yet. You had a reaction. We can run it back, but you had a reaction and I respected the reaction. That's why I even pushed even harder and I was like started making fun of that reaction. You know what I'm saying. So that's where it shows me that you are in tune and you're understanding that there are certain things that you don't want to violate yourself. You know what I mean. You have certain self-respect which you can exercise and you can bite back and bark back, but in certain instances you still can't. You know what I mean.

Eldar: 1:17:09

The liberation comes from what Tully said. I think that when you finally discover objective truth and you embody this objective truth, you are objective truth and therefore you are happy. There's a reason why you shared that. What you shared with me about emma right is because you weren't happy with how it transpired the, the ridiculousness that she accused you of, that. You're like y'all what the fuck is going on here. You know what I mean, but nonetheless, it was a very easy check, which you didn't do, and that's why you felt the way you did. And when you start checking it, you'll see that you will be the authority figure that ultimately, like Tully said, is going to be irresistible for them to not line up the way they do. I think that's what we're still looking for and that's what we're still striving for towards you becoming the leader of the family and being righteous, not for yourself only, but also towards them, so they can really line up with you and become more successful. But right now, as you know, they're still running your market.

Toliy: 1:18:10

Yeah, yeah, like. My vision is that, like, when this happens, what you're saying right, you probably will fall in love within one year, I would say, or less.

Eldar: 1:18:25

Wow, why you got to dangle that candy in front of the fucking guy that likes candy, you know, in love with somebody else or myself?

Mike: 1:18:34

Well, no, that's the thing.

Eldar: 1:18:36

I think that what he's saying, that he has, he has understood the yeah, the equation.

Mike: 1:18:40

You guys, understand it, because you have a outlook that I'm. You're not in it, so that's why you see it differently that's why I can't relate when you ask do you see this is your thing and no, I don't. I see something else is huge yes, you know.

Eldar: 1:18:53

No, no, no, no, it's these little moments of where the disparity, of a break. There might be other moments that you haven't shared or you forgot or you're not even aware of. The reason why I'm bringing up the Emma's example is because you shared it with me. You might be having something at the gym with one of the guys whoever you know what I'm saying that we're not, you know what I mean, aware of. But even like the thing that I shared with you where that guy violated me on the call and I told you like, yo, he looked me in the eyes and said, yo, it was out of you, like that, like a jerk off, and I was like, oh, it was out of me, I, that's it. You see that what I did, right there was. I remembered what he just said. I just banned them for life in my mind. Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, he doesn't understand that. He went into the locker room and he was sucking my dick in the locker room why he's a fucking idiot.

Eldar: 1:19:42

You know what I'm saying. You can't look me in the eyes, lie to me, to my face, and then be buddy-buddy with me, because I remember this you can never say hi to me again for me to then acknowledge you. You stand over there, I stand over here. My principles are my principles, your principles are your principles. You understand that. I check that within the moment because, even though I'm playing basketball and competitive, my mind is still on. I still know what's right and wrong.

Toliy: 1:20:08

Yeah, oh, there's an attachment to a murderer. You know what I'm saying.

Eldar: 1:20:13

And that's it, even though I was cordial and nice to him before, I entertained his bullshit. But now the bullshit came out, that's it, and now we know exactly where we stand. I said bye to him. He didn't get it In the locker room. He's still trying to be nice. I'm like my man. I didn't say the word to him. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so if you're in tune with this kind of shit, it carries over, it keeps carrying over and over and over. So then when you do do it, you feel good about yourself. Like I know where I stand, I don't feel like a bitch. It feels like a fucking bitch.

Eldar: 1:20:49

bro, don't tell me good game or like trying to do small talk with me afterwards after the fact that you looked me in the eyes and said, yeah, it was out of you knowing what you know. You fucking violated me, bro. That's how I felt. You know so, and I think that that's what totally he's talking about that if you feel that way, actually you put that kind of energy out, it's inevitable for you to be able to attract and give and be able to then be a vessel of giving.

Toliy: 1:21:17

You know what I mean I mean I, I mean I think I said this like I don't know five, six years ago. My my take on it like on, like, for example, like mike's relationship stuff, like yeah, like like I feel like I always said that, um, like until, uh, and until the relationship with like family and friends is in a particular way, yeah. There's no way that you can I agree with you have a relationship like a romantic one, absolutely yeah, but it's not even the relationship with family and friends.

Mike: 1:21:49

I think it's the relationship with myself.

Toliy: 1:21:51

Well, no, I mean that's part of it, yeah, and.

Mike: 1:21:54

I think then, yeah, then that's everything else. If I don't respect myself, I'll let other people disrespect me. Well, that's what it is. Yeah, that's what it is. But I think the relationship with myself is you know, I'm learning that more and more and more yeah, how important and how to keep it you know what I mean.

Eldar: 1:22:23

Um, because those things, small things, matter. Matrix came up to us and said yo like ah, that was not a big deal, totally wait a second, that is a big deal. But what happened, what transpired in the chat because of certain accusations and stuff like that, that's it. Yeah, when I separate ways, I feel a lot better. Bro, you know what I mean, yeah.

Mike: 1:22:44

I mean, yeah, I have the same thing as you, because all those guys, they all want to do the same thing, like nothing happened, be friendly, and I'm like I'm over there, like I'm acting like a mute retard because like I don't fuck with you like that, I don't want to laugh with you. I don't want to joke with you.

Eldar: 1:22:57

I don't want to shake your hand, I feel extremely good about this. Yeah, yeah, it's like I feel extremely good about this Again and again, they reassuring us to say that, yeah, what we did was right, because of the fact that they're coming back to us like hugging me and stuff. He kissed me, bro. Yeah, he kissed me on my cheek. Yeah, I said what the fuck? Yeah, so he missed me.

Mike: 1:23:20

Yeah, Me too. This guy said to me on Wednesday he's like I miss you, man, Came up to me while we were hugging me and fucking shaking my hand a couple times.

Eldar: 1:23:28

What is this? What is this?

Toliy: 1:23:44

You don't know what's going on?

Mike: 1:23:45

we don't know. Yeah, no, they don't.

Toliy: 1:23:46

They don't know what's going on, yeah, yeah, yeah, but again, like, again. That'll always show that, like the life, life will have its way life will have its way yeah, that's like the life, yeah, that's like the most. Life is undefeated. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's the most unstoppable force.

Eldar: 1:24:01

It is the most unstoppable force. So life is God. Yeah, I mean Right, yeah. Yeah.

Toliy: 1:24:17

Yeah, it's like the uh existence that was put into place will always like um like will prevail. The way that things were constructed is that they're going to prevail whether you like it or not, yeah one way or another, but does that not bring you peace? Well, yeah, it does. The realization of the. The realization of this brings me crazy peace, yeah, but until you align with it, you will experience suffering.

Eldar: 1:24:50

Yeah, you're right, you know.

Mike: 1:24:51

That's what you were kind of saying just a minute ago about the biggest thing, right, mm-hmm? To me the biggest thing was, like, I guess, thinking about purpose in life and, I guess, trying to examine as much as possible and and, like you know, knowing that if I do make a mistake which I will, you know or if people make mistakes that I'll always want to analyze as much as I have the capacity you've been yeah, but I think that was like me understanding the purpose.

Mike: 1:25:19

It's like it's not a destination, it's not like to be someplace, it's a journey like, um, you know, I have, uh, some kind of idea of enlightenment. Obviously, yeah, that sounds great, but I know that enlightenment happens every single day, like well, no, you work on every single day.

Eldar: 1:25:35

But don't sell yourself short. You do know you have an idea.

Mike: 1:25:37

The more you think, the more you have an idea of the enlightenment no, but I mean, enlightenment is moment to moment, day-to-day kind of thing where, like, yeah, the more you practice and you know to be aware, to be patient, to like you know all these things that we constantly referencing, talking about, that feels like and that's why I was trying to connect it to that 20 year thing where, like, in order to get to that place where you're this enlightened 20 year guru, like who, like fucking, you know, always walking around at this, I don't know, I don't know a bad way to explain it, but like it still happens every single day you have to be on point and be attentive, be aware, be focused, be humble. You don't have to do shit. Don't use those words. Sure, if you want to, I want to. That's why, if you want to, you could.

Eldar: 1:26:22

You don't have to. None of this shit is a requirement, bro.

Mike: 1:26:24

It's a choice.

Eldar: 1:26:26

No, no. I just think that when you understand the benefits and understand the design you have, no choice in the matter.

Mike: 1:26:34

Well, that's how. I feel I have to, but I also want to. Yeah, don't mislead the people that are listening. Yeah, they can run a conversation together.

Eldar: 1:26:41

We are having a conversation, but people are listening, yeah.

Mike: 1:26:43

Yeah.

Eldar: 1:26:44

Especially Joe.

Mike: 1:26:45

Hey Joe, what's up, Joe? Yeah?

Toliy: 1:26:48

Yeah, and like, if you want to say that like, for example, right, and they just um have put themselves, I guess, or maybe they are in a position where there's enough of a following of them, where society views them in a particular way to try to give them time, time of day, right, but like um them just listening to that person umuring, I guess, almost in like a way, like I'm not convinced that they changed any kind of like a way in the way that they want to or in the information that they actually hear.

Mike: 1:27:34

Yeah, maybe, but I think that part of it is, you know, like you said earlier, it is social. So, even though we may know some things right, or think we know some things, we still listen to like other people's takes, you know, philosophers and things like that but he's saying a very specific thing though.

Eldar: 1:27:54

That's it in regards to the fact that, like yo, they don't. Guru is a guru just for guru, but it's not necessarily mean that any of that will translate towards, like you know, a miracle fucking worker where it's like here you go, now you're different.

Toliy: 1:28:12

I'm more convinced, for example, and I actually think, that this is happening and like unfolding right. I think so what the gurus are doing is that they might be saying something that is truthful, but they're more just like lecturing it and just saying it and just more in like a way, sharing it right yeah, what they're trying to do is maybe spark some thought in a person.

Mike: 1:28:40

It's like the thing you guys we couldn't like you were saying it's a karma is a luck. I think they're trying to figure out a way how to make that maybe happen. That's what I thought.

Eldar: 1:28:53

I'm not sure if they're consciously trying to make that happen. Will those moments happen, maybe?

Mike: 1:28:59

yeah, is it intentional? I don't think so yeah, you don't think they're intentionally. The gurus are trying to like awake people. Awaken them.

Toliy: 1:29:10

Well, they are trying yeah sure they are the thing, I think where maybe they?

Eldar: 1:29:18

the thing is the problem is right, like again, I think, in the moment of again, those gurus that just say, hypnotizing those individuals into reason right is a good thing.

Mike: 1:29:30

Maybe it's a well, that's, but let's call for what it is it's a very temporary thing.

Toliy: 1:29:35

Yeah, but I also think that the people that are doing that in that kind of way, I do almost feel like they're missing some information themselves which I don't know how Like I don't have an explanation as to how if they actually understand something, I think a more effective way, but it's definitely not as sexy or mass-produced yeah, or mass-produced. If you know something, you actually do know something and you actually are a guru, I think that maybe in a lifetime you might have capacity to like to actually in, to actually put enough time in to actually okay. So I feel like an actual, more effective method, but, like I said, it's not a very sexy one. Is that like, if you're a guru, you probably have capacity to maybe make let's just say, a one to three, like to actually make one to three actual other gurus?

Mike: 1:30:47

yeah, but in order to become well known, you have to have thousands or millions. Well then, that's what I'm saying well then, that's what I'm saying.

Toliy: 1:30:56

Is that, like, like, like, if, if I got to a point where, like, I actually know something and I'm practicing it and I'm living a certain way, I cannot picture myself?

Mike: 1:31:07

yeah, then what you're saying? Is like doing that like that person to have a circle around them that they can influence to help better. So so they go for this huge thing. Is that what? Because that's what it sounds like.

Toliy: 1:31:16

Well, I can't like, because you know what I'm saying. I just don't know like what information because, like you can hear some of the things that they're saying, right?

Eldar: 1:31:28

Well, the problem is yeah, sorry, it's all. The problem is with some of these gurus, right, and the way they turned out, like, for example, Osho, who was revered by a lot of people, right, you know how that shit turned out. A?

Mike: 1:31:37

lot of people died.

Eldar: 1:31:38

Yeah, a lot of people went to jail. Shit went berserk. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like those guys At the end of the day where it's like, if you're a guru, right, I mean the way they do play out, unless you justify in his head that, like, I did see this and I'm okay with this playing out the way it did, but to me it's like yo the fuck, how could you? How could you?

Mike: 1:31:59

Yeah, the thing. Yeah, Like to me it doesn't make sense.

Eldar: 1:32:02

If you have a personal relationship or understanding, you know how to guide individuals to frustration or ways of animosity to get the things that you want. And these individuals clearly displayed that. Like that's no way near a fucking understanding of enlightenment. No, you know what I mean Now. If, like the Dalai Lama, or when the Chinese invaded Tibet, right, and the Tibetan monks sat in front of tanks and got killed, like that's like, to me it's like holy shit. Like they knew something right Through a peaceful protest, kind of like, and they said I'm not going to allow, I'm not going to do no violence, I'm just going to let them kill me. That's enlightenment, right, that's enlightenment forever.

Eldar: 1:32:51

You, that's enlightenment forever, when they were able to sacrifice their lives for the cause or for that thing, when it's like non-violence. Or Gandhi did the same thing. He said I'm going to starve myself if you guys fight back. So the people that follow me don't fight back. Because we're non-violent, and I think that's the responsibility that you carry, as a guru at least.

Toliy: 1:33:16

To make sure that the piece is upheld. You know, yeah, no-transcript, have like and have, let's say, thousands or millions of people like just list, listen to you and I'll put their lives and they and they actually make the change, actually like like.

Toliy: 1:33:45

I'm not talking about them understanding a few concepts and and and. Maybe it's just doing some yoga poses. Yeah, no, no, and and and. Maybe it's viewed upon in the way of like, okay, hey, I can either completely change let's say like a couple of people's lives and and like, create gurus out of them, right, who who know like just as much as me, or more right. Or I can say, okay, I am going to reach the mass audience. I'm not going to actually create any other gurus, for example, but maybe people will have slightly better lives.

Mike: 1:34:23

So what are you saying then? These guys are just, they're actually out for they become famous.

Toliy: 1:34:28

No I don't know.

Mike: 1:34:30

The question is, what are they out for? Yeah, I don't have an explanation for this.

Toliy: 1:34:32

I was saying that like if they actually know what they know.

Mike: 1:34:36

If they actually know what they know, they'll realize that you don't have to go for millions.

Eldar: 1:34:41

My professor realized that.

Toliy: 1:34:43

Well, yeah, maybe there's something that I don't understand. But I'm saying, is that, like, I don't understand why they go about that process of doing it? Because, like, for example, like they go about that process of doing it Because like, for example, like, yeah, I just don't see, like I don't see more gurus created from those gurus, and if that's not happening, then there's something wrong. It jigs up.

Eldar: 1:35:08

There's something wrong. You see that I agree with him.

Mike: 1:35:12

I agree too, I agree 100%. So then they're not actually guru. Well, he's not saying that.

Toliy: 1:35:18

Well, no, no no, I don't know what's, I don't know what's like. I see a lot value like, for example, like, um, if, for example, let's just say like if elder is a guru, right, if he could pass down that knowledge for, for example, to me and you, and we become gurus like actually right, we either become like him or like supersede him, for example, right. And then if you could do that to one or two other people and if I can do that to one or two other people, and then that chain continues of those gurus creating gurus, like over time there will be a significant enough change. Um, that'll be actually like forever, lifetime lasting, and like for as long as, like earth exists, like lasting, yeah, in that kind of way. But again, that requires like a very what's viewed upon or maybe like understood as like a very small change, but it's a crazy one, like, it's a crazy phenomenon right?

Eldar: 1:36:24

my professor said that it's not. I asked him. I said Paul, why are you teaching here in Bergen Community College? You know what I mean he's like. Well, first of all, eldar, I think the kids in Yale, they're going to be all right. But he said, you also don't know. All I have to influence is one individual and you don't know how far that ripple effect goes. Yeah, and I mean but you have to spark one mind. Yeah, I think Tupac even said this. You know what I mean. Mm-hmm.

Toliy: 1:36:56

In his Machiavelli like raps, yeah, and a lot of these gurus that we see out there that are, like, again, the more known ones. I don't know if they've actually created another guru.

Mike: 1:37:07

Well, yeah, the more known ones. I don't know, but know.

Eldar: 1:37:09

But well, yeah, I mean, listen, if you esteem me as a person who understands something, and I am of that value to you and I believe the same thing and I'd like for you to also live a good life, it is almost my duty, almost my, my purpose, to be able to pass that on and make sure that you're the best that you could be, to whatever limits you have, which I don't think that you have any limits.

Eldar: 1:37:41

You know what I mean. I think that self-empowerment and that ability to be self-empowered to a degree where you can, like Tony said earlier, be objective about your truth and live the way objectively, completely, so you can have outcomes that are completely desirable to you, you can enjoy your life fully. That's because you align with objectivity. You are objective, right, about the way you carry yourself, yeah, and the things that you get you completely in control of, and that's exactly what you want, which is you carry yourself, yeah, and the things that you get you're completely in control of, and that's exactly what you want, which is fun and happiness, yeah, and that's all where I think we're preaching Another form of love Self-love, number one, and then external love, to be able to, you know, give that back and being infectious to others. You know when. They have no choice in the matter but to line up to you because of the fact that you know something.

Eldar: 1:38:40

I think that's what you're going towards. You know what I mean. I mean, that's why I'm calling you out the way. I'm calling you out in the first place about your sisters, Because I see the kink. I see the kink in your armor and to me it's huge, To you it wasn't. I hope to bridge the gap.

Mike: 1:38:57

No, I mean, I know it's important, but the thing is, maybe I'm not supposed to know how big it is yet To me the question is why, right, why? Maybe I don't see where it has its hands in everything.

Eldar: 1:39:17

Yeah, yeah, you know, I see it everywhere.

Mike: 1:39:21

I see it everywhere, really, yeah, can you tell me where it's not? You're not supposed to. No, I mean I see it everywhere.

Eldar: 1:39:29

Yeah, I see the fact that you're still compromised, and because you're compromised to a subjective experience, your objective experience is not going to be the kingdom that you live in yeah, yeah, I understand.

Mike: 1:39:44

Can you tell me where the areas I do it?

Eldar: 1:39:47

I can pay more close attention to it.

Eldar: 1:39:49

Yeah obviously it's not just with Emma, but no, but I think Emma might be the queen of that kingdom. Yeah, there's another form of it. If there's some kind of esteem there that you put her on a pedestal, that might be it. Plus, you're not really engaging in many different relationships right now you know what I mean when you might display this behavior, you know, and are you kind of like secluded to us and to your family. But as soon as you start dating, I think we're going to see a lot of that too.

Mike: 1:40:22

Well, I'm definitely like, uh, learning a lot now, especially with the basketball and stuff. That's a huge area I think of, like, not seclusion, where I'm re-evaluating those relationships and the way I have, you know, engage in new ones. Yeah, because you know that's definitely like that's a huge thing. It's very social, like you know, I engage in it a couple times a week definitely you know, yeah, okay, good, so I mean I'm paying attention.

Mike: 1:40:47

Paying attention for sure, and interesting things like obviously been like playing on stuff. Yeah, y'all haven't heard them tell me. Well, the whole thing paying attention paying attention, for sure, and interesting things like obviously been like playing out and stuff. Yeah, I haven't heard them tell me. Well, the whole thing with the team that was interesting. Which one? Well, the team, you know, like how we were on a team, and then the whole thing.

Eldar: 1:41:04

Oh that, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was involved in that.

Mike: 1:41:06

Yeah, you were involved in that and then then with the sheriff, like I learned lesson. You know how he's, he is way, way a while ago. Obviously I learned that lesson. Yeah, we checked that a long time, yeah, yeah. And then, um, just being careful, getting buddy buddy with new people you know on the court and that's your favorite thing to do yeah, yeah, used used to be there's randy's got you by your balls, bro they like.

Mike: 1:41:31

They like to chat with me, they like to chat with you, but I but um, yeah, yeah. So I'm trying to be careful with those new engagements you know, but there has, there has well the chat thing that was like. I told you about that. Yeah, you know.

Eldar: 1:41:48

I think that was good based on what you told me.

Mike: 1:41:50

I think the way you engaged him, that was good well, yeah, now, based on what you told me, I think the way you engaged him that was good. Well, yeah, now I didn't tell you, but he's like obviously I don't know. Did you hear about this? No, so after that thing with the ref, you know, like a couple of days later, the incident. Yeah, I'm sitting on the bench.

Eldar: 1:42:11

So quickly say what it is. So the ref got out of hand, started talking shit. You were there, you experienced that. The ref then gets suspended from the league because he was going crazy at us at our team. And then Chad comes on Saturday. Mike is there on Saturday.

Mike: 1:42:28

He goes to me yo, what's up, team Snitch? He says this to me. I'm like, yeah, snitch, it says this to me. I'm like, yeah, I'm like what the fuck is this guy like? Like, like you know, I I disregard him, like I don't want to. He starts asking me oh so tell him what happened. I'm like I'm not telling you anything. You already made up your mind, you know. He's like no, no, I heard one started story one. You held one. I said yo, I don't got nothing to say to you. You know, because you, coming in here, you're already fucking Calling me team snitch. You already know what the story you wanna know. He didn't say that to me. Huh, he didn't say that to me. He didn't say that to you. No See, yeah, why? Because you know he respects you.

Eldar: 1:43:03

You're a punk, I'm a punk, you're a punk in his eyes. Yeah yeah, team snitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike: 1:43:12

Because he knows better. Yeah, he knows better, yeah, to not say that shit to me.

Eldar: 1:43:17

Because I also saw him. He didn't say shit. Yeah, no, of course they were talking shit about you.

Mike: 1:43:21

Yeah, I know that that was. Yeah, you know what.

Mike: 1:43:23

I mean yeah, yeah, but also he wants you to play in his leagues and stuff in the future. Probably. Yeah, maybe he's biased. He's biased, he like you're a, you know, yeah, you're a baller, yeah, so. So that happened. And then after that I stopped talking to him, stop, like you know, engaging with him. And then a couple of days, a couple of weeks after that, I'm shooting around and he starts, like you know, feeding me the balls. Like yo keep shooting, keep shooting, all buddy buddy with me, like you know, you see, you know, then he starts, like you know, feeding me the balls.

Mike: 1:43:55

Yo keep shooting, keep shooting oh buddy, buddy with me, like you know, you know. Then he starts coming up to me talking about UFC stuff. He's like oh yeah, that card was trash. I'm like oh okay, you know that's it bro.

Eldar: 1:44:07

I want to fucking talk to you. You see why? You see it, because you acted correctly. Yeah, he saw that like oh shit, they strengthened that you know what I mean. Like who the? Fuck you think you are. Yeah, you set a boundary. You said, yo, this is right here, right now it's maybe in sand.

Toliy: 1:44:24

Yeah, I feel like there's probably a natural attraction between people that um experience something that they themselves cannot achieve or do or understand. That's a good point. And then there's like a attraction.

Eldar: 1:44:40

I agree 100% with him. So what he's saying is that Chad does not have the ability to set certain boundaries for himself, so when he experienced a boundary set for him, he's naturally is attracted to this kind of thing, like Nate, for example, right. Yeah, of course he gets naturally attracted to that. Yeah, of course.

Mike: 1:44:58

They can't do it for themselves. We all crave that which we don't have.

Eldar: 1:45:01

That's right.

Mike: 1:45:01

That's what he's saying.

Toliy: 1:45:02

But it's not like he's consciously doing it where, like he's not consciously doing it. He's deniable, like attraction towards what you yourself probably struggle with or can't achieve.

Eldar: 1:45:17

You understand. That's why that guy in the locker room was praising me or, like yo, trying to start a conversation with me about shit I'm like yo my man. You just looked me in the eyes and said and you lied to me. And then you fucking trying to single me out. This is where we at yeah, how does it feel? It feel, mike? Yeah, or like for me, yeah, that now that you see what chad is, yeah who he's, your bitch bro.

Mike: 1:45:43

Yeah, I mean, I don't, I guess you understand this yeah, but I feel like um, yeah, I didn't think about it like that, but like, no but that's what it is, a line there's a line there's a line that we don't cross.

Eldar: 1:45:54

You stand over there.

Mike: 1:45:55

Like I'm not going to let that line be crossed from myself. That's right, not from him. That's right. I'm not going to allow that line to be crossed for that situation to happen. That's right, and if it does, I'm going to obviously speak up about it.

Eldar: 1:46:09

That's okay to say hi, be cordial, and all this other shit, but there is a line that you know you can't cross yeah. And you shouldn't cross. Yeah, I'm okay with Danny. Yeah, I'm okay with him. Yeah, but me and him, we clearly know where we stand. Yeah, yeah, he's looking at me like through a different angle now. Yeah, yeah. And I'm happy with that. Yeah, she stands there, I stand here, mm-hmm, that's it. She has not disrespected me since. Mm-hmm.

Eldar: 1:46:43

Why not? She hasn't called me a scumbag? Mm-hmm Ever Since Mm-hmm I don't know how long it's been Mm-hmm Three months, four months. No more Six months.

Eldar: 1:46:54

I don't know, but I feel good. I feel good about it now. Now he's buddy-buddy, you know. Almost make a little joke in there, fine, do it. He even fights for your calls now. He even fights for my calls now. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, but that's what I'm saying, that when you stand behind what's right, objective truth, the people that are around there, like their souls, almost have to naturally gravitate towards you and they don't know what the fuck is going on. Why the fuck Nate?

Eldar: 1:47:30

comes in after a big fight and kisses me in the gym, says he missed me, I lost my mind, was like yo, like this, like yo, let me show, show some character like yo, show me you mad or something. You know what I mean yeah to come over to kiss me, hug me and shit like that. Like what the fuck? I never got this treatment before. Yeah, I know. So he says, yeah, they can't get it. Therefore they want it now more Because they don't understand. But internally, their soul respects it. That's yeah. Fuck them.

Mike: 1:48:08

Fuck me.

Eldar: 1:48:09

Fuck them all. Fuck them all, right, fuck them all, bro, up until, like, we start seeing eye to eye and start having honest conversations. What are we talking about? For sure, you journey in your life. I'm journey in my life. We're team snitch. My man, this guy almost went berserk bro. We're team snitch. Yeah, you, the sheriff who didn't fucking acted accordingly properly in that situation, going around spreading rumors that we're the bad team. Yeah, you, crazy, out of control, won't ever talk to me bro. Mm-hmm.

Eldar: 1:48:41

Now he's passing me the balls like hey, how are you Mm-hmm?

Mike: 1:48:44

Oh, who is the sheriff? Of course, yeah, he doesn't look at my direction, which is great. He's an idiot. I don't want him to look at me. I don't want him to talk to me. I don't need anything. He was playing defense on me last week, you know. I didn't say anything to him. I don't fucking talk to him. That's what I'm saying I just come in there and play ball.

Eldar: 1:48:59

I think in your case, through character, you got to those people. They have to be shut down.

Mike: 1:49:04

You have to show your character through your gameplay by trying to of focus a little bit better yeah because you're fucking airy up there, out there yeah, you guys felt like I was airy this game a little bit yeah yeah, really that's crazy the whole time, or at least no, no, no, in the beginning of the game, more so so in the first few minutes, 100 because I told you guys, I warmed up, yeah, but I was actually made it. You, when you told me, like yo, kill that old man, lock him up, yeah, he, the first half he didn't score anything. Well, yeah, like I had intention to lock him up.

Eldar: 1:49:34

Yeah, then he was doing some weird shit. That's because I was tired, bro okay, I was finished.

Mike: 1:49:38

Yeah, okay, because I mean physically I was exhausted I couldn't run with him. No, I get it I couldn't run but I was playing defense, I was trying to make the effort to yeah, like lock him up.

Toliy: 1:49:49

I wasn't thinking about shooting or anything.

Mike: 1:49:50

I just wanted to make sure he's not doing anything and I think he didn't have anything on me really, maybe one or two shots, no, he had some shots, no, no, in the second half some wide open shots he had some shit when I wasn't guarding him, but when I was on him he didn't do anything. And then later, as I got tired, he started catching me with like jumping and stuff. For sure I did, but I was locked in.

Mike: 1:50:10

Okay good. Even on the weekends when I go like the last few weekends I've been also being focused playing defense I've been getting like three, four blocks, bro, on some days. That's good. That's good, like what's it called? Danny, and this other guy I blocked, like I'm actually trying and focusing. You know that's good. The black team.

Eldar: 1:50:29

You know the one guy I blocked, one of the yeah, one of the guys that comes and I think that's part of your character, developing your character in those areas where you socialize and you're being social and you're able to express yourself properly.

Mike: 1:50:42

But you don't just play good defense just because you're angry, totally no, no, oh, I also was talking shit to that Israeli, I think one of the Israelis. You know he was me and you came to play we lost the first game. Yeah, and he's like yo, he goes to me, he goes, not today. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember this not today. Not today like mad serious about it and then we smoked him and then, and then we beat him. Yeah, I came up to him and I patted him.

Toliy: 1:51:10

Like I gave him a pat, actual physical pat. I was like yo not today.

Mike: 1:51:13

But I said yo don't leave.

Toliy: 1:51:15

Don't leave. Play again. Yeah, and we beat him again. Yeah, we beat him again.

Mike: 1:51:18

Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, Because I was like yo I'm going to focus because, hey, first of all, I actually enjoy it. Yeah, you wild for sure, but it's also yeah, I mean it's good to fall.

Eldar: 1:51:33

You show some character, not just you know, just because you're that sneaky guy that makes layups, but you can also show some character on the court, yeah, yeah, but mentally fucking bullying these guys, yeah, good. So the journey to valhalla? Totally. So we have anything else regarding? Regarding being able to keep awareness for long periods of time and not be able to punk out or sleep on it when we need to.

Mike: 1:52:04

No, I mean, I don't have anything more on that, but I'm curious, like that thing we were talking about. Maybe there is no answer, but like that karma, that luck thing, what you guys are talking about, I'm trying to understand if there's like you know, something like I think we talked about it before.

Eldar: 1:52:19

Maybe it's like why are you worrying about it?

Mike: 1:52:21

you're not subjected to it no, no, I'm just interested in understanding, like, how does how does somebody like get into that? Like, like, is it what? Like a survival of the fittest thing? Like, what is it like?

Eldar: 1:52:35

is it what? Like a survival of the fittest thing? Like what is it? I mean, some people die bro, ignorantly, that's for sure. Yeah, and I think that's part of the lesson that needs to be learned. Right, we're like what I think that we're experiencing right now is precious yeah it's amazing, it's a beautiful thing.

Eldar: 1:52:54

You know what I mean. But some people act in such a way where it's like it's whatever. You know they're reckless about endangering their lives. I mean definitely the shit that Warren be sending us in the group chats and shit you know what I mean People just balling out. So I don't know.

Mike: 1:53:15

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know yeah, I don't know.

Mike: 1:53:16

I don't know the answer either to it, but but I don't know, I'm not sure I mean to me. It was just interesting, you know. Yeah, cause like, just like, because I don't know. It's hard to in a world where we always try to make sense and understand everything, just to say, like karma or luck, it's like to me it didn't. Yeah, it's like a head scratcher still. Hmm, totally, maybe you can help him with it, maybe it, maybe it's like, maybe it could be a help to other people. You know, maybe not, or maybe it's like. Uh, you have to figure out on your own. Get to this point, then you can help ask other people for help, you know yeah, I don't know.

Eldar: 1:53:58

I'm thinking about that, like, how do you awaken right? Like, yeah, how do you like oh shit. Like yeah, you know, my oh shit moment came from, you know, when my mom started reading certain texts and stuff like that to me about.

Mike: 1:54:10

But, yeah, like, what was it that you were receptive in that moment to actually hear that? Because I'm sure your mom told you. Yeah, your mom has stories for years, bro. Yeah yeah, I know. I hear them all the time. So it's like what made you listen in that day, in that time, to that specific story?

Eldar: 1:54:26

Yeah, it's not even her story. It was a completely different thing and I was completely receptive to that. I was completely receptive to that. I was like wow, yeah, like there's more to life than this what I'm experiencing. I guess it was a perfect timing of amount of suffering I guess I was experiencing at that time which I was yeah.

Mike: 1:54:43

But you were like 17, 18.

Eldar: 1:54:44

I was confused. I didn't know what I wanted to do. My sister was just kind of like hey, like yo take these courses, you know Money's good there, whatever you know. I didn't know who I was. And then, like when my mom brought that book and she starts asking those questions and stuff like that and reading those things. I was like, oh shit, there might be more something to it. So I started reading and I started waking up a little bit. And who woke up? I'm not sure.

Eldar: 1:55:12

But I don't think it's the first time or the last time I wake up. Mm-hmm, that's how I feel. Yeah, you know, mm, yeah For sure. So can you call it lucky, I guess? But no, I don't feel lucky, bro. Yeah, I feel like it was destined. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Toliy: 1:55:35

It was more like no, it was supposed to be this way yeah, but like, maybe an explainable thing right is, maybe people who are experiencing like unhappiness have enough humility to let in yeah, to like inquire from some kind of source, to like let, yeah, yeah, like to inquire from some kind of source, to let in something that will spark, I think, a debate yeah, internal debate, internal debate and kind of where it goes from there. Something that will spark, I think a debate yeah, internal debate, an internal debate and kind of where it goes from there will determine, probably a combination of like how unhappy are you and then how humble and interested can you also be in order to be happier, in order to continue to piggyback off that, and then it gets to a point where it just explodes over time and then you don't have a choice in the matter.

Eldar: 1:56:38

Yeah, like, why did it totally gravitate towards me at the rec?

Mike: 1:56:41

Because you're nice with it. You know what I'm saying why.

Eldar: 1:56:46

I don't think it was basketball Sure, sure it was.

Mike: 1:56:48

You can say that it was, but also I think it was the thing we were talking about earlier, that the energy you had, the confidence, the way you carried yourself. He maybe felt it and maybe in the moment he didn't know it extends beyond the basketball but he wanted it in that.

Eldar: 1:57:02

But his soul understood it and, like yo, I want that yeah.

Mike: 1:57:07

Well, I thought about maybe, like maybe for you, I don't know about having fun, some connection with that. Like, yeah, I think you always wanted to have fun as much as possible in life, Even when we met each other.

Eldar: 1:57:23

Yeah, senior year.

Mike: 1:57:26

Yeah, I think you always wanted to have fun and I think maybe life was like everybody was telling you like yo, that's it, no more fun, no more fun, no more fun. Your sister and you maybe thought, like yo, this could be an avenue for having fun, and maybe that's what you heard, yeah, and that could be like a maybe on a soul level. Maybe I don't know, maybe, but that's what came to mind, you know.

Eldar: 1:57:59

Maybe it like you can't have. You gotta get a job, you gotta get a career, you gotta do this. That high school is done, college like everybody's. Like yo wait, is there another way to do this? Yeah, I think that's why we are where we are, all of us together. Yeah, that's because, you know, I took an unconventional route, totally took an unconventional route.

Mike: 1:58:06

You took an unconventional route to the ship, yeah, and I mean I'm happy but I guess was the idea born out of having more fun for these unconventional routes and choices. The idea might have been already installed in us.

Toliy: 1:58:20

Yeah, I mean, I don't think it was out of a more fun thing, because I think that a person that doesn't understand doesn't have the ability to even think about fun. Yeah, fun is an afterthought. Fun is an afterthought. It is an afterthought.

Mike: 1:58:37

You don't think so.

Eldar: 1:58:38

No, I don't think it was a conscious effort to have fun. I think it was just like.

Mike: 1:58:41

Maybe not conscious, but on a different level, preserving probably that.

Eldar: 1:58:46

yeah, Like fighting for it, yeah.

Mike: 1:58:48

Yeah, I think subconsciously you were going for that. I think it was the opposite.

Toliy: 1:58:51

I think he was probably getting to a point where he was having the least amount of fun. Yeah, and felt it, you know, and then he felt it, yeah, and then spark text that sparked some kind of debate which then eventually enabled him to have fun, and then it was a like as much of that as possible yeah and forever life thing I do so what are our final thoughts, guys, about this memory thing?

Toliy: 1:59:19

there's no cheat code or what, totally no, I mean, I feel like the way that it works it makes sense. Yeah, like memory is like a tool, right, like it's like a tool that you use and if you have way more memory of one thing than another, then like it's gonna come out and that's, and that makes sense. Like that, that doesn't make sense. Yeah, it would make less sense, like if someone's in your life for, let's say, a year or two years or five years, or you talk about things for five years and you're trying to undo, like 20 years or 30 years or more of um, like, uh, yeah, habits and understandings and all that and and and, like I said, I I'm still a very much of a believer that the, the child version of you, um absorbs like a lot, and a lot of understandings are formed like there, and undoing those is significantly harder than new ones formed as an adult. Because, like, I just feel like there's some forming of like the brain or something that happens during those ages, some like development.

Eldar: 2:00:30

Solidifying yeah.

Toliy: 2:00:34

Right, that are, those roots are going to be like, uh, planted like the deepest you know, and undoing a lot of those things is very, very hard. Um, also because, like, like, if you're, for example, like 10 or 12 or 15 and then you're like 30 or 40 or 50, right, like going back to those times and thinking about those situations is, I mean, it's very hard, right To know when. When did you make the choice to do this? When did you make like like, going back that far is very, very hard. Um then then something more in your adult life where you like remember more, yeah Right, um, you just don't have like such vivid memories of before, like actually like vivid, vivid of like just daily, everyday things.

Toliy: 2:01:18

You can, you can have vivid memories of like PTSD events or something like that, but not like daily, everyday life, right, like no, you can't even like picture that anymore, um, so, so like yeah, to me it's a tool and it and it works in that kind of way and it makes sense and, um, it plays out. But then it also can make sense and play out for the good in like a way where it's like when you do actually learn these kinds of things and they, they become like um, who you are, like, you also never forget those either and you can never turn your back on those things yeah you know so, and if you do, you're gonna get fucked.

Toliy: 2:01:50

You can't, you're going to get fucked. You can't. You're not going to get fucked because you can't, you know, yeah, so yeah, I feel like the memory and those kinds of things works as intended and yeah, I mean All right, thank you, mike.

Eldar: 2:02:10

All right, thank you.

Mike: 2:02:16

Mike. So do you guys think it's like a somewhat of a like a this memory thing Is it? Is it selective, maybe subconsciously selective, like?

Eldar: 2:02:23

with my situation. I think it's a very selective yeah Right, yeah, yeah, you'll remember what you want to remember and you won't remember what you won't. Yeah, like you said, if what you want to remember and you won't remember what you won't. Like I told you, if it's predominant, it'll dominate. If not, then it won't.

Mike: 2:02:40

Up until it will. Yeah, the selectiveness comes in whether or not you want to tackle that problem or face whatever you need to face. In that, you know, with my situation definitely is the case with Emma. I selectively chose that, probably because I wasn't wanting to or ready to face it at the moment. For whatever reason. Obviously I'm not sure if that's important.

Eldar: 2:03:00

Which I think is still a good mechanism to have as a human. I think I mean praise the Lord for that shit, because you know ignorance is bliss. You know what I mean, and it's, it's a way of maybe, like you said, coping mechanism.

Mike: 2:03:14

Ignorance is bliss till. You know otherwise.

Eldar: 2:03:16

Oh, that's right, yeah, yeah.

Mike: 2:03:19

Like not just a specific item but in general.

Toliy: 2:03:21

Yeah, yeah, no, I don't think so. What Ignorance is not bliss?

Eldar: 2:03:28

No, okay, fine, okay, yeah sure.

Toliy: 2:03:31

Because what's going to play out is's gonna play out, is gonna play out whether you wanna, whether you know it or not, or like you're ignorant to it or you're, or you're aware of it.

Mike: 2:03:40

Right, you're gonna feel the wrath yeah, it's definitely not bliss, but it's yeah with time. Yeah, you always lose. Yeah, you lose. I guess ignorance is bliss if you never find out right.

Eldar: 2:03:53

There's no he's saying there's no chance.

Mike: 2:03:55

He's right, yeah, there's no chance.

Eldar: 2:03:56

There's no chance man Sooner or later, life will be life. If it's not right now, sure, in the moment you can say that, like in this specific moment, yo they were ignorant, they didn't feel the pain, fine.

Mike: 2:04:08

But they will feel the pain one day or the other in this lifetime or the next, right, yeah, or the next, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I don't know, I don't have anything else. Really, it's a lot to process yeah, for sure, I guess.

Eldar: 2:04:24

For me, yeah, there's no shortcut. There's no shortcut to this shit. And totally pessimistic suggestion for 20 years might be, might be spot on, but if you fucked yourself up for 10 years, don't you fucking dare think that it's gonna be one year, don't you fucking dare? You know what I'm saying. Strap on, strap your seatbelt. It's a long ride, you know. You know what I'm saying. Strap on, strap your seatbelt. It's a long ride, you know, because your fucking ignorant, prideful self is going to have to go through the turmoil necessary in order to get back to seeing things for what they are.

Toliy: 2:05:11

Yeah, I would say that, if you're whatever you believe destiny or luck or karmic thing yeah, if you stumble upon this podcast, get ready to get on the get fucked express train.

Eldar: 2:05:26

You know what he's right? Yeah, if you. You know what I'm going to read, what I have on the X? Right, I'm going to read it to you guys because I put this up and I was like, yeah, this is appropriate and also again came from one of these epiphanies. Number one is get humble to get fucked.

Eldar: 2:05:43

Mm-hmm, that's number one right Caution New episode drops every Friday at 9 o'clock am Eastern time. Right Caution Whether you like it or not, we will adopt your mind. If you want to keep running amok, our pod is not for you. That's what it is. But if you did stumble upon it yeah you're done.

Toliy: 2:06:13

Yeah, because I feel like it's so crazy how it works and like paradoxical in a sense. So like if you actually stumble upon something that is good for you, you're going to first experience more pain than pleasure which is a crazy thing and then. I guess, like your ability to withstand it, will be the deciding factor. Yeah, that's interesting. And then I guess, like your ability to withstand it, yeah.

Eldar: 2:06:36

Will be the deciding factor.

Toliy: 2:06:37

Yeah Is like you're, like a pledge, almost like to get in.

Toliy: 2:06:44

To get in. You know, and that's how it always works, because part of change and part of doing that is having what's wrong pointed in your face. And if you're having that to begin with you're not accustomed to that to begin with and you're not going to like it it's not going to be a fun time for you for a good amount, for a good amount of time, right. But the question is, can you withstand that not fun enough time and still have the and still have, um, the desire to find out, can, can, can that supersede, like the, uh, the, like the momentary pain that that happens for you to get over the cusp? You know.

Eldar: 2:07:33

Yeah, that's good, it's interesting, and some fall, some can't do it. All right, totally. Thank you. This was great. Those were the final thoughts. Outro Music you, thank you.