145. Mastering the Art of Undivided Attention in Teaching and Mentorship

In Episode 145 of "Dennis Rox," join hosts Mike, Toliy, and Eldar as they delve into the vital question: What does it mean to provide undivided attention in a teaching context? The discussion begins with Eldar emphasizing the importance of modeling efficiency and resourcefulness while teaching. Toliy voices his concerns about the pressures of perfection and time constraints, which Eldar reassures by clarifying that perfection isn't about being flawless but about being fully present during crucial teaching moments. Mike further enriches the conversation by highlighting the significance of recognizing key moments when someone truly needs help and the necessity of quickly shifting focus to provide support.

Throughout the episode, the hosts explore the complexity of teaching relationships and the symbiotic nature of effective communication between teacher and student. Eldar shares personal anecdotes on balancing mentorship with personal obligations and the importance of being attentive and responsive. Mike and Eldar stress the universal struggle against hypocrisy and the necessity of authenticity in teaching. They also discuss how foundational skills can be adapted to new challenges and the importance of leading by example, touching on how students are perceptive to inconsistencies. Tune in to explore how providing undivided attention shapes not only the student's learning journey but also the teacher's personal growth and self-development.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Surprised by dad's cursing, realizing parental fallibility.
• 10:40 We impact lives by balancing support and authority.
• 21:09 Authority based on relationships can be misleading.
• 33:19 Meet people where they are each day.
• 50:30 Caution advised in professional-personal relationship boundaries.
• 54:11 Set honest examples; acknowledge personal limitations.
• 1:11:08 A vigilant teacher patiently addresses student doubts.
• 1:22:17 Practice self-compassion to uncover truth.
• 1:28:07 Attachments hinder effective teaching dynamics.
• 1:42:18 Shared goals guide consistent, meaningful interactions.
• 1:50:12 Fear of disrespect in teaching outcomes.
• 2:00:29 Recognition brings positive outcomes and prevention skills.

Transcript

Dennis [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode.

Eldar [00:00:01]:
We want to grow, we want to change, we want to do things because the world has so much to offer. I think we have that intuitively in us, and we understand that. But a lot of times the teachers or the parents are not patient enough.

Toliy [00:00:12]:
Until someone probably feels understood as to what's important to them. It's very difficult, I think, to break through or to teach them anything. How can you learn from someone who you feel doesn't understand you and what you want?

Eldar [00:00:25]:
We could just buy people, lock them in a room, put the fucking thing on the board and say, these are your fucking goals. You don't meet them, you're fired. That language is already spoken by everyone. That's boring. What's the topic for today? Totally.

Toliy [00:00:44]:
You always do this. I don't know what the topic is.

Eldar [00:00:47]:
What do you mean you don't know what the topic is? You always know what the topic is. You always like to hide behind fucking some. Like you said a lot.

Mike [00:00:56]:
He likes to pretend that this game, though, he likes it, though he likes know what's going on. There's no topic. He doesn't know how to use the proper word.

Eldar [00:01:02]:
But this is a recent phenomenon. Before, he would be, like, leading with it, you know?

Toliy [00:01:05]:
No, but I would tell you of a particular, like, topic. Like, you have a conversation with me, and then you're like, okay, so you have the topic for tonight. And then, like, I didn't even think about, like, what the question around it is. Yeah, like, what to formulate around it.

Eldar [00:01:19]:
Okay. I guess the question is a general one, especially, I guess, maybe when it comes to parenting, right? A lot of the times, what do our parents want to do right to us? They want to instill themselves into us. They want to guide us in life, right? They want to tell us how to maneuver this world. Right? You should act this way. You should be, you know, whether or not they're instilling, like, courtesy into you or some basic manners, right? Please and thank you. Right? They're constantly trying to, I guess, maybe almost model their own best version of themselves into us, right? And I think that it's a tough task overall, right? Maybe some basic things you can definitely instill. But as we grow older, right? As we start to age and become maybe smarter or start growing up, starting becoming more mature, we start to develop almost a compass for what's right and wrong for ourselves, right? And we start picking up some of the things, some of the cues, right? For example, the first time I heard my dad curse, I realized that he wasn't perfect. I don't know if anybody had that type of experience or a shock where you heard your parents curse at one another or with their friends or whatever.

Eldar [00:02:44]:
But when I did, I don't remember how old I was, right? My dad took me to one of the hangouts of his friends, right? And he starts like cursing up a storm, you know, like, you know, like we curse or whatever, regular shit, you know what I mean? And I'm looking at him like, yo, who is this guy? You know what I mean? Like, he curses. I was told never to curse and never like to use that kind of language or whatever or like, you know, be proper, you know. But then my dad, who's my idol, right, Especially when you're young, is cursing, so you're like, oh, shit, you know, so that almost becomes like, I don't know, some kind of. Almost like a violation maybe, or like a form of disconnect or space that you form between, like, oh, wow, like I thought one thing. You almost then recognize that there is a disconnect somewhere between what you thought and what is right. And I think as we start growing up, we're slowly start seeing more disconnects, right? We start like questioning almost our parents as to like, oh, why, why is it like this? Why is it like that, right? I mean, I could bring up some example. That's one of my examples. When you're a little.

Eldar [00:03:53]:
And next thing you know, you start developing your own understanding about the world. You start seeing world, the world the way you see it, the way you want to see it, right? And it's not necessarily the way they want you to see it, right? They, they have a very specific agenda, right, throughout their whole life to kind of teach you, tell you almost, maybe sometimes oppress you into their worldview. But now you're growing up and guess what happens, right, when we're teenagers, right? Elder, don't smoke. Well, Eldar is smoking, you know what I mean? Elder, don't drink. Elder is drinking. Elder, go to school, do the homework. Elder is cutting class, you know, cutting school, you know, hanging out with Mike in detention, you know what I'm saying? So it clearly, what starts to happen is that we start developing our own perception about the world and how we engage in it. And it's obviously not the same worldview as our parents want us to be in, right? They want us to be straight edge, the best that we can be.

Eldar [00:04:52]:
Good grades, you know, don't do this, don't do that, right? Don't play video games until 4 in the morning. Well, I'm doing it. You know what I mean? You know, I have countless examples, and I think everybody who's listening probably has these examples when it comes to their understanding of the world, what they're doing. And then their parents, right? It's a big. It becomes a big maybe distance now between them. I mean, you guys definitely do. You definitely do, Mike. It totally definitely does.

Eldar [00:05:18]:
So what am I going towards, right? I'm going towards what Toly almost is wrestling with right now. Tolle is now in a position where he can hire employees, train employees, expect certain things from employees, right? Accept certain things about them, right? But ultimately what he's trying to do is also what our parents are trying to do. Trying to instill the best in us that we can receive from them or the, you know, best that they could in order for us to maybe prevent some of the mistakes that they did or get us to be happy or succeed in life and stuff like that. I mean, probably you would say that their intentions are good and I would say that Toli's intentions is good too, you know, however we face the dilemma, right? We go against our parents as kids constantly, right? Mike don't buy this. G35. Mike gets the best. G35. Mike, don't buy this Lambo.

Eldar [00:06:14]:
Mike gets a Lambo. You know what I mean? Like, don't do this. Don't do this. And we do the opposite. You know what I mean? There's a reason for why we do the opposite because we perceive the world differently than they do, but they constantly trying to tell us otherwise. So there's a disconnect, there's a gap between the two. So the question, right, is as a parent or as a teacher or as an employer, right? If you're going to be hiring, you know, potential employees or interns or whoever you're hiring, right? How do you bridge that gap where you try to instill the best in them, right? You know, through training, through everything, right? And almost be the parent. Right to.

Eldar [00:06:55]:
Parents always have a vision for us, right? They want you to be a lawyer. Ah, you should be a lawyer. You know, like they fucking. They want to pigeonhole your ass into a very specific thing and get almost their vision right. Actualized through you. But rarely does that happen, right? And same thing with employers and employees, right? A lot of times we want them to be the best. The best. We want them to be accountable.

Eldar [00:07:19]:
We want them to learn, to be good students and stuff like that, right? To be diligent and like, go getters Whatever it is. But a lot of times we don't consider all the variables in the world that that individual, right, might be going up against, you know, and there are a lot of them. Oh, yeah, there are a lot of them, right? When we were growing up, I don't know, peer pressure, I want to be cool, right? Mom's saying, stay home. You know, like, maybe, maybe I have peer pressure. Mike's telling me I gotta wear Jordans. I'm gonna go and hustle for Jordans or something. You know what I mean? Whatever, you know, that's one of the variables. But same thing, I think those types of relationships, when it comes to employees and employers, employers expect, right? Almost like, hey, I want this vision, I want this done, I want these performance KPIs to be met.

Eldar [00:08:04]:
But the person is the person, right? They sometimes wake up late, they sometimes party, they sometimes overeat over, drink or whatever it is, you know, and they don't get there. They can't get there. They don't know how to get there, right? So the question is, how do you bridge this gap without getting frustrated like a parent does, without having to use punishment, discipline, right? And all those other negative things that we all faced when it came to at least our parenting styles, right? I mean, not our parenting, but our parents parenting style, you know, the way they scolded us, the way they, you know, try to fucking force a watermelon into a garden hose. You know what I mean? Because that's what it felt like, right? It was never like, hey, like, I really like this video game. All right, cool. You like this video game? No problem. Play till 8 in the morning or something like that, you know, Go do your thing, you know, and not really asking questions around it. Okay, well, what's the end goal here, playing this video game? Maybe there was an end goal.

Eldar [00:09:04]:
Maybe I wasn't ready to answer those types of questions. But certain needs or certain wants that I wanted were clearly maybe not hurt, right? It was just labeled as that's bad. That said, you're done. Right? And I was always hiding. You know, my dad wakes up at 5 in the morning, I'm hiding. Then I wake up and I'm like, he left. I waited an hour and I get back on the computer with a swamp ass and playing video games.

Eldar [00:09:26]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:09:27]:
Because I know I'm quote unquote, doing something wrong in accordance to what he sees to be a good life. But I'm doing something for myself, all right? I'm already disconnected from his vision versus my vision, you know, What I mean, and I think this is a big deal, all right? And I think there's a lot to unpack here. It's a lot of uncovered. But the ultimate question is, how do we do it in such a way where we do bridge the gap where if our vision is in fact a good one for our kids, for our employees, for whoever we're mentoring, right? If it is, in fact true, if it's rooted in truth, how do we make sure that they don't hide? How do they make sure that they don't run? Run away? Because you are a runner.

Mike [00:10:12]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [00:10:13]:
You were a big runner running. Gary. Couldn't do it, man. No, your dad could not do it. You couldn't crack this. This question right here?

Mike [00:10:20]:
No, you couldn't.

Eldar [00:10:23]:
So there you go. Totally. Is this an introduction to your fucking topic?

Toliy [00:10:26]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [00:10:29]:
Did you understand what I'm saying, Mike?

Mike [00:10:31]:
I did, yeah.

Eldar [00:10:31]:
You understand?

Mike [00:10:32]:
I understand, yeah. It's a good question. It's a good topic, you know? Yeah, it's a very good topic.

Eldar [00:10:37]:
I like it. You like it?

Mike [00:10:39]:
I do, yeah.

Eldar [00:10:40]:
I think that we all, to some degree, will play a part in somebody's life. It could be our partner, it could be our friends. It could be our mentees, the people that we mentor, right? Most of our friends group and stuff like that. You know, a lot of times they'll come for help or advice or whatever. You know, how do we do it in such a way we can bridge the gap between being an authoritative parent, right. And scolding them and punishing them and stuff like that, versus uniting and really bringing that vision, if the vision is rooted in truth to fruition, where you're happy with what you're seeing, the progress, and the other individual is seeing that as well, where they're like, oh, shit, I'm in good hands. I feel good. I feel trusted.

Eldar [00:11:30]:
I feel like I can trust this person and I'm okay with continuing this journey versus needing to hide. Like Kara said, hey, we want to have that meeting, but can we not bring totally into it?

Mike [00:11:46]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:11:47]:
You know, that's the beginning of hiding.

Mike [00:11:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:11:51]:
You know it is. So there it is. I think I fucking said a lot. You want? I got fucking cotton mouth from the shit.

Mike [00:12:01]:
Who's going to kick it off? Totally.

Eldar [00:12:03]:
It was talking for fucking ten minutes over here. Opening up this topic.

Mike [00:12:07]:
It's a good intro.

Eldar [00:12:08]:
All right, good.

Mike [00:12:09]:
This is thorough.

Eldar [00:12:13]:
Or should we try it? Or should we just let him run away? Right? Move out, hide. Let life pick it up, Pick up the pieces.

Mike [00:12:24]:
Well, Depending on which case we're talking about. We're talking about in the parent where you gave. When you gotta raise a child.

Eldar [00:12:29]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:12:31]:
From a young age versus raising a child from 26. It's a little different.

Eldar [00:12:36]:
No, you see, I don't think so.

Mike [00:12:37]:
You don't think so?

Eldar [00:12:38]:
No, I don't. I don't think so. I think it's the same thing. I think that as we grow up, as we start seeing things, I think intuitively, I think what's installed in us from birth. The soul. We're gonna talk about the soul, right? Let's just say that the premise is that the soul has all the knowledge of the universe.

Mike [00:12:54]:
Yeah, Right.

Eldar [00:12:55]:
However, we. A lot of times what we do is we pile in this nonsense, we start telling people about. About the world or how we perceive the world. Right? And now Harris is filled with all these. Not all these fucking weird ass things that he thinks that the world is right, but nonetheless he has reason. Right? He has reason and he has pain. He's subjected to the same suffering everyone else is.

Mike [00:13:16]:
No, no, I meant that you can't let. You can let Harris run away. He's 26, but you can't let an infant run away.

Eldar [00:13:22]:
Well, no, not an infant. No, no, no, I'm not talking about.

Mike [00:13:23]:
An infant like a small child.

Eldar [00:13:24]:
I'm talking about the. No. Well, when does the hiding and lying starts? When does lying starts for little kids? When they start talking? When they first felt a level of being scolded, Right? Like, oh, shit, that hurts. Next time, I know not to say that I did this. I'm gonna hide and lie. That's it.

Mike [00:13:40]:
That's when it begins, but that's when it shows itself. But that's like. Do you think it's a response to something?

Eldar [00:13:48]:
Well, it's a response to pain. It's a coping mechanism, a defense mechanism. To find a way around.

Mike [00:13:56]:
Pain is a learned behavior.

Eldar [00:13:58]:
It could be a learned behavior. Why not? Yeah, it could be a learned behavior.

Eldar [00:14:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:14:02]:
So what I'm saying is that nonetheless, we still have reason. We still have pain. We have all these things that can play in our advantage if leveraged properly. Right? So why can't we do it in such a way where the person doesn't have to become a liar, right? Doesn't have to start hiding, cheating, stealing. And there are all these other things that are unethical or not good for us, all that are not rooted in virtues, as you say.

Mike [00:14:34]:
I mean, well, with the case with.

Eldar [00:14:39]:
Harris, the lizard monkey.

Mike [00:14:41]:
The lizard monkey?

Eldar [00:14:42]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:42]:
I Think, you know, he's 26, so he's learned a lot of things. How to do a lot of things wrong.

Eldar [00:14:48]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:48]:
The wrong way.

Toliy [00:14:49]:
Sure.

Mike [00:14:49]:
You know, So I think those habits, they're automatic. It's not even a thought, you know.

Eldar [00:14:55]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:14:57]:
But not to say that the person who's involved can't know that. Right. And maneuver in a way and position himself properly, you know, Like, I don't hear, like, I don't have a. I don't hear. Harris has, like this fear that he has of Toly. Because I've heard it too, you know, like this thing with Toly. I don't have heard him, hear him with you saying, like, oh, I'm scared of Eldar. Not that he's saying scared of totally.

Mike [00:15:26]:
But this thing that he's developed where he's like. And Harris is. I think from my perspective, he does have, you know, pretty thick skin. So he could definitely take, like, you know, a lot of punishment, you know, and like, a lot of trolling and stuff.

Eldar [00:15:41]:
So.

Mike [00:15:41]:
Yeah, I do think that he. He does, like, respond to different approaches. For sure.

Eldar [00:15:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:15:55]:
You know, and I. The. The one with Toli, you know, he definitely. He has this, like, hiding thing that he's doing.

Eldar [00:16:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:16:01]:
You know, I've heard him. He's expressed that, you know.

Eldar [00:16:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:16:06]:
But I guess they work more closely together maybe. I don't know, you know, but I think. I think that we're actually all very smart.

Eldar [00:16:22]:
I agree. That's what I was going to go. Next thing.

Mike [00:16:24]:
We're all very smart.

Eldar [00:16:25]:
Yes.

Mike [00:16:26]:
And at a young age, we learn our parents very well. We may be not able to, like, you know, say, like, oh, explain it.

Eldar [00:16:35]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:16:36]:
But we understand everything that's going on.

Eldar [00:16:38]:
Correct.

Mike [00:16:39]:
And I think those responses, the rebellious behavior, is a response to contradictory behavior we see in our parents or behavior that's not root in truth, but we understand it.

Eldar [00:16:50]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:16:51]:
Or maybe not even that have to be root in truth, but it's.

Eldar [00:16:55]:
We disagree with it.

Mike [00:16:56]:
We disagree with it because it's.

Eldar [00:16:58]:
What is it?

Mike [00:16:59]:
Hypocritical?

Eldar [00:16:59]:
That's right.

Mike [00:17:00]:
It's like we see our parents doing this. Like, wait, you're telling me not to do this?

Eldar [00:17:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:17:03]:
You don't give me an explanation, but you do this?

Eldar [00:17:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:17:06]:
Why? Why the fuck? Yeah. My mom don't smoke. Oh, you smoke?

Mike [00:17:09]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:17:10]:
The fuck.

Mike [00:17:10]:
Give me an explanation and then give me a good case. Because even though we can't say like that, we might not be able to say that in words when we're young, but consciously Subconsciously, we actually understand something. We understand what's happening.

Eldar [00:17:24]:
Well, that's what I'm saying that I told you when I first saw my experience or heard my dad cursing, I was like, what the fuck?

Mike [00:17:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:17:30]:
I thought, we don't do this. Like, this is really bad.

Mike [00:17:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:17:32]:
Why are we putting on this image? Why. Why do you have this? Right. Or when my mom caught us smoking. Right.

Mike [00:17:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:17:38]:
And she was so disappointed, but she couldn't even speak or say anything because she smokes.

Mike [00:17:43]:
Yeah. What are you going to say?

Eldar [00:17:44]:
You're setting an example to your son. Right. All your life, as little as I was, I remember her smoking the whole time. My dad, too, you know, smoking in the car and all this other shit. What do you expect now that your son now is dabbling in this.

Mike [00:17:56]:
Oh, yeah.

Eldar [00:17:57]:
Like, what do you expect? Right. So there's no real argument. There is that contradiction, right? There is that contradiction. I think that, like you said, we're very smart at a very early age. We're very smart and our soul understands a lot of these contradictions and feels them. And therefore that separation begins. The hiding begins.

Mike [00:18:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:18:13]:
The line, the lying begins.

Eldar [00:18:15]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:18:16]:
Because we don't know how to properly explain that. We don't agree with it. So we lie because it's easier.

Eldar [00:18:22]:
Well, yeah, because we know that behind that which has been preached to us for a very long time lies a hammer, a punishment hammer.

Mike [00:18:32]:
Right.

Eldar [00:18:33]:
That, like, hey, you should be doing this, and if you don't, there's a hammer here gonna hit you with it. Right. This is the way we usually rule. Right. We don't promote almost self governance. Right. Where it's like, okay, cool, like, you know, no problem. You want to learn through yourself, I'll let you go make certain mistakes.

Mike [00:18:52]:
Well, yeah, parents don't. See, my thing is I don't think parents typically okay with letting the kid learn on their own.

Eldar [00:19:02]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:19:03]:
They want to, like, protect them from a lot of stuff. And for sure, for me, I think that was a, you know, I think probably for all of us, but for me, for sure.

Eldar [00:19:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:19:13]:
Did my parents try to protect me from doing certain things? And I think that made me want to do more stupid. Even more.

Eldar [00:19:18]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:19:19]:
Because, like, I would just. This is what I wanted to do. I thought it was fun. It looked fun. All the other kids are doing it. For example.

Eldar [00:19:27]:
Right.

Mike [00:19:27]:
Peer pressure. Being rebellious, I guess, is also like, you know, fun.

Eldar [00:19:33]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:19:34]:
You know, but ultimately it's like a confusing thing for us. We don't really understand what's happening.

Eldar [00:19:40]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:19:42]:
So we just curious, like, yo, what happens if I do put my hand in the fire? Like, I want to know.

Eldar [00:19:46]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:19:47]:
You know?

Eldar [00:19:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:19:48]:
And then we just keep doing that over and over until we learn. Until we learn on our own.

Eldar [00:19:54]:
Which is also okay.

Mike [00:19:55]:
Which is okay, too. Yeah.

Eldar [00:19:56]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But sometimes you have these relationships that you get into, right? It can be an intimate relationship. It can be where you are maybe the leader in a relationship, or maybe you have a friend who's looking up to you. Right. You can't just tell them, you know, all the time. Just. Yeah. You know, just go do your own thing kind of thing, and you separate.

Eldar [00:20:13]:
No. Sometimes you kind of have to be there with them for them, you know, and experiencing this stuff together, you know? Or you can be the jerk friend who judges them for some of the things that they do. Right. I mean, we definitely have countless examples of certain things where we just accepted people for what they do and what they are, who they are, you know? And I think that's why, to some degree, the gravity is more towards us versus running away.

Mike [00:20:39]:
Mm.

Eldar [00:20:40]:
You know, So I think there is a formula. It's not a fast one, but there is one. You know, when it comes to finding a way to bridge this gap that we're talking about.

Mike [00:21:04]:
Yeah. Are we interested in, like, understanding that formula or understanding why it's not being used?

Eldar [00:21:09]:
Like, well, why is this topic has maybe validity or have some weight is because we are those parents, like I said, we have these relationships with our parents, our sisters, our brothers, our friends, and sometimes we feel like we have authority on the subject matter. We have some knowledge and understanding, and we are presented with some people's. People come to you for advice. People need a little bit of guidance that then you're like, okay, cool, I'm going to become the authority here. I'm going to be the teacher here and teach you. We get into this relationship where it's like, okay, cool, I'll help you. Next thing you know, that person is nowhere to be found. That person's lying, stealing, cheating, hiding from you.

Eldar [00:21:54]:
And then how do we feel?

Mike [00:21:56]:
Doesn't feel good, probably.

Eldar [00:21:57]:
Yeah, it doesn't feel good, right? Here you are, right? Take the hero role of the savior, right? For the moment. And then you quickly got fired. You know what I'm saying? And then what happens, right? Resentment starts to build. You start feeling a certain type of way, like, oh, this person is not listening. Oh, this person doesn't deserve my help anymore. Yeah, no, this is exactly what's going on.

Mike [00:22:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:22:28]:
Right.

Mike [00:22:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:22:29]:
I mean, these are countless things. Every. Every show we watch, Love Island, Love is Blind.

Mike [00:22:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:22:34]:
This is, like, typical shit.

Mike [00:22:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:22:37]:
You know? You know, a bunch of people can tell you this advice. Right. And then that person will still go and do their own thing. Mm. Because that's the way they learn. That's what they need to experience. Right. Mm.

Eldar [00:22:52]:
But we quickly judge them or fire them or give up on them.

Mike [00:22:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:22:59]:
You know, I personally don't want to give up or prejudge. I want to give the person a fair chance, and I think we've been doing that here. We have countless examples of people coming through the door, trying certain things. Right. We were there for them, open arms, help if needed. If you're willing and able and want to learn, you know, and continue the journey with us. But as soon as the people shut down and if they don't want to do it anymore, then they're on their own. On their own.

Eldar [00:23:26]:
And of course, it's let them go, you know, perfectly fine, you know, so I'm having fun. I had fun the whole time. I like, no complaints, you know, about certain things. Obviously, I'm always shooting for the stars. I always want people to understand, to see, to learn to progress, to become better. But I'm also realistic about the fact that there are many variables that are at play here, many attachments that are at play here. And sometimes it's not that I can't jump over those attachments or those ignorances. It's the other individual that is wrestling with them.

Eldar [00:24:07]:
Sometimes I can't wrestle past those things. Right. For example, an irrational fear of anxiety, of someone's anxiety. Right.

Mike [00:24:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:24:17]:
You can reason as much as you want with them. You can understand and be on the same page as much as you want. But as soon as that anxiety hits, everything's out the window. No guru, no. No book. Nothing's going to help you. That's you versus that anxiety, you know, and you'll do whatever it says or needs to be done, you know, and it's not necessarily, you know, on the lines of reason and logic. So that's what I'm talking about.

Eldar [00:24:45]:
And I think that maybe some. A lot of people have different thresholds when it comes to these. Their own little flaws and stuff, and not everyone can go far. You know, some people do get stuck in the cave, you know, but at least here, we try to give them a fair chance, so. Totally.

Toliy [00:25:05]:
Yeah. I think that, like, in. In. In a lot of these scenarios, it's not like you maybe have, like. Like, not. Not Like a, like. Right. All right, So I think that as you get better at things and astro, maybe if you need to learn something, you at times, I think slowly become a better student, like for yourself.

Toliy [00:25:46]:
But in a lot of these cases you're not. You're in scenarios where maybe like someone that doesn't really know what's actually happening or like what's, what's going on. I don't know if that makes sense. Right. So it seems to me is that like the act of this running, it happens because there's a feeling from, let's just say the student to the teacher, right. That the teacher does not understand the attachments and what's important to the student.

Eldar [00:26:19]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:26:20]:
So that to me is by the running happens to begin with, the parents don't understand the kid. Therefore the kid wants to run and not listen to the parents. Parents want the kid to get better grades, for example, because they see like, okay, better grades will equal, you know, a better college, maybe a better job or maybe whatever.

Eldar [00:26:40]:
While the kid has a self esteem issue and he says focus on his peers and social structure before even that.

Eldar [00:26:46]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:26:47]:
So that to me is like the ongoing pattern. Right. And I feel like until someone probably feels understood as to what's important to them, it's very difficult, I think, to break through or to teach them anything because they're not like, how can you learn from someone who you feel doesn't understand you and what you want? That's pretty hard scenario without forcing that kind of learning. Right.

Eldar [00:27:18]:
And can you really force it?

Toliy [00:27:20]:
No, no. I mean, you could try to like again use like discipline or like. Yeah, those kinds of things like that, that's generally what, what's done in society, right? Like that kind of method. But to get someone else to listen to you without them feeling like you understand them and what, and what attachments they have. Yeah, I think it's a tough sell.

Eldar [00:27:48]:
So knowing that, how would you position yourself next time you have the opportunity to teach someone?

Toliy [00:27:56]:
Well, I think one, this scenario is like a fleeting one. There's no, like, hey, just like, there's a saying that a lot of people will say in these kind of scenarios, right? Just like, hey, just know that I always have your back no matter what, for example.

Eldar [00:28:12]:
Right. Yeah.

Toliy [00:28:14]:
But the reality is that like that understanding between teacher and student, that needs to be probably reiterated over and over and over again because in the moment of a student being like a student, I think they're guaranteed to have amnesia when there's learning that needs to be like, provided yeah. You know, there's no way, like, no one can remember that in the moment that the other person has their back when they're getting, like, hit over the head or when they're.

Eldar [00:28:44]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:28:45]:
When learning is trying to be acquired. Because I feel like in a lot of life's learnings, like, the actual moment of learning probably requires some level of, like, a vulnerability. And during that moment, it's almost like you need to go down a few notches. To get up a few notches.

Eldar [00:29:12]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:29:13]:
And.

Eldar [00:29:13]:
And.

Toliy [00:29:14]:
And, like, in that kind of scenario, like, the student is, like. I don't know if it's, like, injured or, like, you know, more like battered at that time. So they're probably extra sensitive, you know.

Eldar [00:29:32]:
And you have a problem with this, right?

Toliy [00:29:35]:
A problem with this.

Eldar [00:29:37]:
The fact that the student sometimes just needs to hit their head over the, you know, on the wall several times and bleed it a little bit.

Toliy [00:29:44]:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I feel like I used to have a larger problem with it, but the way I feel about it now is that I don't have. I mean, I don't feel like I have such a big problem with it now.

Eldar [00:29:58]:
Hmm.

Toliy [00:30:05]:
Yeah. I'm more. I'm. I'm more like. Like, I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm more trying to understand what do I need to do on my end to put, like, myself in the best position to be a successful in the process of teaching.

Eldar [00:30:24]:
Mm.

Toliy [00:30:27]:
Someone.

Eldar [00:30:28]:
So do you have any hints?

Toliy [00:30:30]:
Well, Well, I mean, one of them is what I just said. I think it needs to be like, you probably have to get to know someone a bit better so that you can, like, thoroughly understand what attachments they have, what's important to them.

Eldar [00:30:50]:
And work off of those first or work those. Work them through. Because a lot of times, right, our parents will say, hey, can't be playing video games this long. Why are you hanging out outside so long? Like, what's going on here? Right. You don't need to do this. It's a complete assumption, like, you should not be doing this. Of course, that's their understanding of how the world should be working, how their child should be operating. Right.

Eldar [00:31:15]:
But they don't really know. Right. If you actually asked, hey, like, let's sit down and actually discuss this. Why are you out? And why are you playing video games for so long? And you get an answer. I think you'll definitely get an answer. You'll see that somebody's chasing something. Somebody had a very specific desire. They're trying to accomplish something, and they need it.

Eldar [00:31:37]:
But a lot of times maybe the parents or whatever, right, the teachers, they almost feel like there's no end to it. But I think there's always an end, Right. I don't think we just stop at, you know, just playing video games all life, you know.

Mike [00:31:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:31:54]:
We want to grow, we want to change, we want to do things because the world has so much to offer, you know, I think we have that intuitively in us and we understand that, you know, But a lot of times the teachers or the parents are not patient enough for their, for their turn to come when they can finally give them the guidance when they're ready. Because, you know, the big thing about teaching, when not asked, right. Most likely is going to fall on deaf ear is your advice.

Mike [00:32:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:23]:
And then again, nobody's not helping the person. And then you're getting frustrated because you just gave unsolicited advice that's not going to be performed or accomplished. So, yeah, I think the big point is you have to really get to know your kids. You have to really get to know your employees. You really have to get to know what's really going on behind the scenes. And when you start understanding the behavior or the causes of it, you can, number one, see for what it is and then either challenge it. If it's requiring challenges, right? If it's some stupid ass perception that they have, right. If it's, if it's attachment, then, okay, wait patiently for them to play certain things out, you know, while giving them advice about how it should be, but allowing them to still experiment, you know, and wait for their return, you know, and there's many different scenarios when it comes to that.

Eldar [00:33:19]:
That's why I think one of my advices to you was every day try to meet the person where they're at. Because every day the person, at least a volatile person, right, who doesn't have footing yet in life, they're going to come with volatility. One day they're sad, one day they're super happy. Sometimes they're excited, ecstatic, depressed, and obviously you can see that. And at least in Harris, where the volatility is so up and down, up and down, up and down is bouncing off the walls like a pinball. You know what I mean? So I think if you meet them where they're at and really understand the cause, right? The cause of what's actually going on, if you really pay attention and ask the right questions, I think you can bring them back to what he's talking about, right? To center them back and reminding Them of what's important, Raising awareness about their amnesia. Alzheimer's almost. Right.

Eldar [00:34:18]:
Were they forgetful? Where they forgot why they're here, what the goal is. One day you told him about the goals, he agreed with the goals. Next day he comes in and does completely the opposite. Because, like I said, there's volatility there in the person. There's so much that's going on. There's so many different conditions that are at play. I think it's for everyone. It's not just Harris that we have to remind each other what the fuck's going on.

Eldar [00:34:46]:
But in order to do that, we have to meet them, where they're at, and they're all over the place. A lot of the times you know this, you're a big buzzer.

Mike [00:34:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:34:58]:
You know, so. Yeah. All right, Mike, you have any suggestions? Totally brought one. What are some other things you can do to bridge this gap?

Mike [00:35:08]:
The. I mean, I gotta give you credit.

Eldar [00:35:13]:
Whoa, whoa.

Mike [00:35:14]:
Shout out.

Eldar [00:35:14]:
Elderism.

Mike [00:35:16]:
Elderism.

Eldar [00:35:17]:
Fucking shit.

Mike [00:35:18]:
Yeah. I think elderism owns all. I think in our friendship, you know, you did. You always were like, the process that we. That we. We. We have, or the process that's. It's like, I don't know, working or in effect, is that I.

Mike [00:35:39]:
You always, like. I always went out and tried my. My own stupid theories.

Eldar [00:35:46]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:35:47]:
But I always came back and I was able to always confide in you because we developed this, like, not to use the word trust, because, you know, trust is dead. And. But in this case, it was. It was trust because I knew that.

Eldar [00:36:01]:
There was comfort.

Mike [00:36:02]:
It was. It. There was. There was comfort, but it wasn't built over time overnight. You know, I think the. It developed over time.

Eldar [00:36:14]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:36:15]:
So that's why I came to you and was able to be honest and admit, you know, the stupid things that I did.

Eldar [00:36:22]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:36:23]:
Because we spoke about them beforehand. You supported me going there, but I never came back. Like, damn elder. Like, you know, why don't you tell me? Or if I did say that, it was more like out of a joking thing. Not because I was angry, because you didn't fucking warn me.

Eldar [00:36:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:36:36]:
And you.

Mike [00:36:37]:
Because you probably did, and I just didn't hear it.

Eldar [00:36:39]:
That's right.

Mike [00:36:40]:
So I think it is very important to build a relationship where you have a trust that that person, they can come, like, be like. You can come to that person, you know, in the good stuff and the bad stuff, after you fuck up or, you know, before you're about to up.

Eldar [00:37:05]:
Yeah, that's just one of the strategies. Right. I think that maybe came from, like, you know, I mean, acceptance. Right. Accepting people for who they are and stuff like that. Or try to at least, you know, and showing maybe compassion.

Mike [00:37:19]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:37:19]:
And within that moment, because I know that, you know, a lot of moments that you talked about, you struggled in or whatever, you know, and also try to understand, like, what the fuck is actually going on. And I think that was just a philosophy bug. A result of my philosophy. When I discovered it, you know, through some of the things that I've read, I was introduced to, you know, I realized that, yeah, we're all suffering. We're all trying to figure it out. The thing we're trying to figure out is how to be happy.

Mike [00:37:43]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:37:44]:
You know what I mean? But we go around these different ways to trying to do it, you know, And I know that in. In your instances, a lot of the times, that's what you were trying to do. You're trying to be happy.

Mike [00:37:53]:
Yeah. You know, and I thought it was going to, you know, bring me to happiness, those experiments.

Eldar [00:37:57]:
But, yeah, it was a long journey. I mean, the journey is still going, but, yeah, there was, you know, that that specific journey at least, was very rooted in a lot of immediate suffering, let's just say, you know.

Mike [00:38:11]:
Yeah, yeah, sure.

Eldar [00:38:14]:
Okay.

Mike [00:38:15]:
So that. That's one thing. But. And another thing, I do think it's probably important, you know, like, I known you for a minute.

Eldar [00:38:23]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:38:24]:
So when we first met, me and you were too, you know, just fucking around. Knuckle. Knuckleheads.

Eldar [00:38:29]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:38:30]:
But a few years into our friendship, you completely transformed. Right. As a person. And you're pretty consistent in that.

Eldar [00:38:39]:
Yeah. And transforming or just transformed in the.

Mike [00:38:42]:
Consistency of the transformation.

Eldar [00:38:44]:
Okay, fine.

Mike [00:38:44]:
So I think the consistency of your own character as a teacher is a huge factor here as well.

Eldar [00:38:50]:
Wow. This is a good one.

Mike [00:38:51]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:38:53]:
Why?

Mike [00:38:54]:
Because unstable people always look for stability.

Eldar [00:38:58]:
Because. Okay.

Mike [00:38:59]:
And stable person.

Eldar [00:39:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:01]:
You look, you. You're trying to find sense of the world peace. If you see a person who has stability.

Eldar [00:39:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:39:08]:
You gravitate towards that consciously, subconsciously. Like, you could tell, like, oh, this guy has it figured out.

Eldar [00:39:15]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike [00:39:15]:
You know, and I think that that is important, you know? I guess. Yeah.

Eldar [00:39:23]:
By example.

Mike [00:39:24]:
Yeah, yeah. You have to lead by example. I think that's very important, and I think that that's definitely a big thing. So if Harris is observing all of us, he obviously is very smart and he's making his observations of us. Some could be right, could be wrong, but he's still making observations. And I think conclusions and conclusions.

Eldar [00:39:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:39:53]:
Making conclusions out of them. Yeah.

Mike [00:39:56]:
So I do think that that also does play a big role in it.

Eldar [00:39:59]:
In that I think so. I think it's a very important point. Totally. What do you think about the whole thing about setting the right example as well and how much weight it actually has when it comes to your student looking up to you and finding that balance that they themselves don't have yet. How much weight is that? Almost. Almost admire the other person for that stability. Right. Because you don't have it and you're like, yo, I want that.

Eldar [00:40:28]:
And then I have a follow up question before I forget. Now one thing is to be able to leverage that consciously and another one is to be able to leverage it subconsciously. And by that I mean I never tried to leverage that as a way of like, okay, like I'm gonna pretend.

Mike [00:40:45]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:46]:
To be as stable as possible here so Mike can listen to me. That wasn't the case. That was just a byproduct of what I was doing already.

Mike [00:40:52]:
Exactly.

Eldar [00:40:53]:
And it just happened to work into my advantage. Now if we're going to ask the question about, okay, how do we become good teachers and if we identify as setting up an example, being the right example to others is one of those things. I don't think that we can fake this one specifically. Right. We can't just say, I'm going to pretend every time, like not to curse in front of my kid.

Mike [00:41:16]:
No.

Eldar [00:41:17]:
You know what I'm saying? Sooner or later you're going to slip up, but they're going to fucking see your ass.

Mike [00:41:21]:
You can't fake it till you meet dirty ass.

Eldar [00:41:23]:
Yes.

Mike [00:41:23]:
You can't fake this.

Eldar [00:41:24]:
You can't fake this is what I'm trying to say.

Mike [00:41:26]:
The thing is.

Eldar [00:41:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:41:26]:
You actually have to be about that life that you wish for that person.

Eldar [00:41:29]:
And that's what I'm saying, that it's almost has to be in a passive way. A passive observation that you're observing. And I'm not even doing anything in this specific example part that you talked about.

Mike [00:41:42]:
So.

Eldar [00:41:42]:
Totally. Sorry, that's, that was my question.

Toliy [00:41:45]:
Yeah, no, I mean, I, I, I think it's important especially early on because like it like, especially if there's not like much substance to the relationship yet. Like you need hooks. Yeah. Like you, you, like you need something to look up to, you know?

Eldar [00:42:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:42:11]:
Until I think it becomes in the unconscious way like you were talking about where, like, where you may not, not like, like, like need that hook as much because you have a relationship, you know?

Eldar [00:42:27]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:42:30]:
But yeah, I do think it's important to. To be a good example for that person.

Eldar [00:42:40]:
God. Yeah. I'm just gonna pull something up. Very funny.

Eldar [00:42:42]:
For you.

Eldar [00:42:44]:
I'll say this again, saying that this guy can't take anything good.

Toliy [00:42:49]:
Good right now. His body is like a filter for good stuff.

Eldar [00:42:53]:
It's. It's a blocker.

Toliy [00:42:54]:
Yeah. He can only take in, like, unhealthy food, cigarettes, and dirty.

Mike [00:43:00]:
I smoke a babe.

Eldar [00:43:02]:
How do you feel about that? I think he.

Mike [00:43:04]:
He didn't know what the hell he's talking about. No.

Eldar [00:43:07]:
He said, you repellent to good things.

Toliy [00:43:09]:
And now he's going to point out something about me.

Mike [00:43:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:43:11]:
Well, look at your man Boo. Boy. Let yourself go, boy.

Toliy [00:43:16]:
I remember before I left here, it.

Eldar [00:43:18]:
Totally worked out every day now he's.

Mike [00:43:20]:
Got the whole belly going on, man.

Eldar [00:43:23]:
We're talking about you. So there you go.

Eldar [00:43:25]:
Right.

Eldar [00:43:25]:
I think that's a very good example of the student is always watching.

Mike [00:43:31]:
Of course. Yeah.

Eldar [00:43:32]:
Hey, you let yourself go, bro. How are you gonna judge me when you let yourself go, bro? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, It's a funny example, but it is an example nonetheless.

Mike [00:43:42]:
It is a funny one.

Eldar [00:43:43]:
Right. And you even acknowledged it in the video. You said, yo, now he's gonna say something back. You know, like, what about your man boobs?

Mike [00:43:51]:
You know?

Eldar [00:43:53]:
But yeah, that came to mind. I was like, that's a funny one.

Mike [00:43:56]:
I think now that we more speaking about it, I do think probably I don't want to say it's the most important thing, but I think it's very important.

Eldar [00:44:03]:
Oh, you put a lot more weight on it.

Mike [00:44:04]:
Yeah. Because if I come to you to teach me something and then I see you violating the things you're teaching me, that's it. I'm not going to listen to you anymore. You lost your credibility.

Eldar [00:44:14]:
So there you go. This is what I'm talking about. That if your child. Yes. If you're a child, right. And your dad or your parents are saying, don't do this, don't curse, don't do that. And then you watch them do it. That's it.

Eldar [00:44:26]:
That's where the rift happens.

Mike [00:44:27]:
That's it. Yeah.

Eldar [00:44:28]:
This is when the division's like, wait a second. That's them. And now that's me. And I'm all alone. I gotta figure this whole thing out by myself. Because that was a fucking clown show. That was a fucking. They were putting fucking noodles on my head.

Eldar [00:44:44]:
It's not real. That's fake.

Mike [00:44:47]:
Mm.

Eldar [00:44:48]:
Yeah. You have to be Authentic?

Mike [00:44:51]:
Yeah. Oh, definitely. Because the student is hypersensitive, bro.

Eldar [00:44:55]:
Yes, the student is hypersensitive, you know.

Mike [00:44:58]:
Because they, in a way they idolize you in a certain way. They have to look up to you.

Eldar [00:45:02]:
But you, you let yourself go, boy. The last time I see you have a belly, bro. You let yourself go, bro.

Mike [00:45:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:10]:
You let yourself go.

Mike [00:45:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:20]:
You let yourself go, bro.

Toliy [00:45:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:45:23]:
You know what I'm saying? So that. Okay, fine. If the student, right, is sensitive, hypersensitive, like you said, then we must be very careful, at least, right. Of trying to guide them in areas where we ourselves are not yet polished. Then we have to completely stay away from them. Sure, maybe. Totally. Let's just say can't give him advice on exercise just yet, right? Not yet.

Eldar [00:45:49]:
Yeah, but he can give him advice on something else. You're not buying that?

Mike [00:45:56]:
No, I'm thinking about it. I don't know.

Eldar [00:45:59]:
Or do you have to be all around in order to be able to. Because the truth about it is it's hard to be all around everywhere.

Mike [00:46:05]:
It's hard.

Eldar [00:46:06]:
Yeah, it's hard. You know what I mean? I mean, there's incompetencies everywhere, you know? But then that's why I think you should stay away. Like, if I'm incompetent in certain things, like, yo, I'm staying away from that. I don't know this shit. And I have no problem putting up my pauses and say, yo, I ain't my. That's not my field. That's not my area expertise. I'm not gonna fucking try to cram this into your head or be a Julius.

Mike [00:46:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:46:25]:
You know what I'm saying? We're gonna make stuff up right as we go and maybe trick you into it, you know? I don't wanna do that. But if I'm competent in giving relationship advice, I'm standing on that, you know? I'm standing on that. I know how to do it. I'm in it, you know, And I promote it. I promote true love, you know?

Mike [00:46:46]:
Yeah. You're asking a tough question.

Eldar [00:46:47]:
I don't know, you know?

Mike [00:46:50]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:46:51]:
I mean, I feel like if you need an all encompassing individual for everything to teach anything, I think it would be.

Eldar [00:46:57]:
You have to wait for Jesus. Yeah, Right?

Toliy [00:47:00]:
Yeah, probably.

Eldar [00:47:01]:
But he probably only don't drink protein shakes and works out like a madman. Yeah. If you want to get jacked.

Toliy [00:47:07]:
Yeah. You might not be attached to the things that that person that, like, is good at.

Eldar [00:47:11]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:47:12]:
You know?

Eldar [00:47:12]:
Yeah, that's true. So that won't even Help.

Toliy [00:47:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:47:17]:
So you have to be careful, I think. Right. If you see certain incompetence, certain things that you can't help the person or whatever, it could just be detrimental to you, you know, that they.

Mike [00:47:28]:
But I think. Yeah, like, for an example, right?

Eldar [00:47:33]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:47:35]:
Something that just came to mind. I'm not sure it's very funny, but. But it's also related to this, like, thing with Toly. I remember one time Harris went over to Tolly's house to help him with the stuff. To bring the. With the garbage.

Eldar [00:47:51]:
Oh, yeah.

Mike [00:47:52]:
To bring the garbage down the driveway.

Eldar [00:47:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:47:54]:
You know, and then Harris started complaining about. It's like, yo, this. He didn't help me. I had to do it all myself.

Eldar [00:47:58]:
You know, get out of here.

Mike [00:48:00]:
Yeah, yeah. You didn't hear the story.

Eldar [00:48:01]:
I heard it, but, like, I didn't know how, like, to extent over.

Mike [00:48:03]:
Yeah. Harris was upset, like, yo, totally didn't do anything. I had to do this all myself.

Eldar [00:48:07]:
Yeah, right.

Eldar [00:48:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:48:08]:
So now in this, like, what happens is. Right?

Eldar [00:48:11]:
Or maybe Totally was doing the Mr. Miyagi on him.

Mike [00:48:14]:
Well, it's very possible. Yes. But the thing is, what happens there is what I'm thinking is the student, right. Harris sees that the teacher is, like, giving him direction, Right. But he's not really explaining the importance of it, or I'm not sure if he did. But the student feels like it's being unfair treatment here, that he has to do this stuff. It's like, yo, you fat fuck, why are you making me do this? I'm also fat fuck. Yeah, but you also a fat fuck.

Mike [00:48:47]:
It's like, the thing is, is the student who's already. Who's not very maybe smart in this realm of the relationship, why would he not carry over the hypocritic understanding of this person?

Eldar [00:49:00]:
He would. Yeah, he would.

Mike [00:49:01]:
Other areas, 100%. If his shit is not bulletproof in this, his shit is not bulletproof in that.

Eldar [00:49:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:49:06]:
You know, so like, then that deteriorates.

Eldar [00:49:08]:
There's always going to be a comparison in them, in their heads.

Mike [00:49:10]:
Yeah. He's going to always say, like, he wasn't good in the, you know, being healthy department. So he might not be good in the sales department either. He might be have holes in there too. You know, especially a student who's young and just being molded and not really like, able to understand the theory of, like, hey, you might be the world's best basketball player, but it doesn't make you a good person or a person who could talk about politics or robotics or anything. You're just a very good basketball player.

Eldar [00:49:38]:
And that's where it ends. That's where it ends.

Mike [00:49:40]:
Could you be good at other stuff? Yeah, but it doesn't give you authority in any other areas. Yeah, people, I mean, athletes definitely forget that.

Eldar [00:49:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:49:48]:
But also the people who look up to them, they also forget that 100%.

Eldar [00:49:51]:
I agree with that.

Mike [00:49:52]:
That's another dangerous thing.

Eldar [00:49:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:49:54]:
You know.

Toliy [00:49:55]:
Well, in that example, there's actually a clip of it, but I did explain why. What's called. Why he was doing what he was doing in that example. But I also think that, yeah, I guess in that kind of way, then there would be. There's no possible way then, I think, to do teaching because you're not going to have flawless teachers. I don't think anybody is.

Eldar [00:50:25]:
Well, that's why I think that the overall general umbrella of teaching is very difficult.

Mike [00:50:30]:
Well, to respond to your thing, I think. I don't remember the exact thing about this story. I don't know the clip you're referring to, but it's very hard to teach. But it's also, you should be very cautious before inviting that kind of relationship, which you're doing with him, into something else. Like he coming in here, he's getting molded into all aspects of our lives now. He just comes here, works and leaves. He goes out for lunch, he goes over dinners, he goes for parties, he goes on vacations. Like we're all around together, you know.

Mike [00:50:59]:
So obviously it's a little bit different dynamic too. It's not just like a regular student that comes to your yoga class fucking once, once a week, you know, or once a day. This is a full integration, you know, so that person absorbing and making sense of shit in his own dysfunctional or functional way. So I think that's.

Eldar [00:51:20]:
I agree with that.

Mike [00:51:21]:
That's a big factor.

Eldar [00:51:22]:
That is a big factor. I do.

Mike [00:51:23]:
So even though it might not be related to it, it's still. Well, because it's a full circle services.

Eldar [00:51:31]:
It is. And like you said, it's. It's the way he's perceiving it. Right?

Mike [00:51:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:51:36]:
An individual who's already volatile. Right. He's going to have a misperception about it. Of course, if you don't explain to him. Right. If you don't say like, hey, like the reason why we're doing this and why I'm doing this and you're doing that, there's a clear difference between the two. And if you don't explain, take the time to meet him, where he's at. Right.

Eldar [00:51:55]:
Certain incorrect conclusions about the world and about the teacher will be formed. This happened to me many times when I witnessed certain things about even I remember Professor Lee, who was teaching Buddhist philosophy. Right. And like all the non attachment, you know, about desires and Buddhism and all the good stuff, right. He'll come outside, see him smoke a cigarette. Cigarettes. What the. Yeah, you know what I mean? Because I have my own.

Mike [00:52:17]:
You created this own thing in your head.

Eldar [00:52:18]:
I created my own little image about the people that are into Buddhism and what they supposed to look like, be like, and act like.

Mike [00:52:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:52:25]:
You know what I mean? And then I go and I'm this judge now.

Mike [00:52:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:52:29]:
I can judge him. My teacher, who I'm on steaming, right. Like you said during class, he's fucking portraying a very good image. But as soon as he went to his personal life, I'm like, yo, what the fuck? What a jerk. You know what I mean? That's. That's fucked up. But it happens all the time, I think. Yeah, but nonetheless, we have to be very careful.

Toliy [00:52:46]:
Yeah, but I think it's very hard to like to live in a world where you're not concerned the. Well, that's. That's the wrong word. But like, like the student's going to constantly have wrong perceptions of things now.

Eldar [00:53:05]:
Well, yeah. And that's why I think Mike is giving us a very good caution or at least individuals. Who wants to be good teachers is that. That is a big kicker and we ought to be careful.

Toliy [00:53:16]:
That they're going to have wrong perceptions.

Eldar [00:53:18]:
Yeah, that they're gonna, they're gonna form wrong perceptions because of that. And that's why we ought to be careful. Right. We ought to be careful and say, hey, if my mom is a smoker, but she's trying to teach me not to smoke when I was little, she should say, hey, the reason why I'm a smoker, because I'm a fucking idiot. Okay? I'm an idiot. And I real. This is, you know, like I got into this habit and now I'm addicted and now I can't do anything about it. It has a bigger grip on me than I'd like.

Eldar [00:53:44]:
I would not like for you to go through the same process as me. I did not have this conversation. I did not have this talk. Nobody explained this to me, right? So when I'm looking at kids that are growing up and they're fucking cool, you know what I mean? They have the nicest shoes or whatever, but they also smoke a cigarette. I want to be like that. They're cool, you know? What I mean, and I'm not thinking about what my mom is telling me, what she should be telling me about smoking cigarettes. I'm looking at somebody else, I'm looking up to them. So I just light up and that's it.

Eldar [00:54:11]:
And then there's also a contradiction between the two, right? So I'm like, all right, my mom smokes. These people smoke like the fuck. What am I missing out on here? You know what I mean? So, yeah, so I think it's, I think it's a very important point that if the teacher, if the teacher ought to be effective or the most effective, right. Setting a personal example in the things that you're competent in is number one, it's very important. And number two, that in the areas that you are not competent, right, should not be covered up as you should not be putting up a front or a mask or some kind of a ploy to say that you are, you should say and be straightforward that you know, the reason why I'm this is because of this, you know what I mean? So that it's like an outstanding thing that I myself working on, you know what I mean? And that also I think will help the individual bridge the gap between like that's also a human being. He's also struggling, he's also trying. He might be more competent in this area, but he's not in this. And that's perfectly fine.

Eldar [00:55:15]:
And that's an extension of kind of two way streak of compassion and acceptance too from both the student, sort of. Because I, like I said, I was a judgmental student just like you just described. I was that same type of way, you know, in the beginning where I just kind of like, all right, if I don't see perfection, something, what the fuck, you know what I mean? Like, I'm mad, you know, but that's incorrect. Yeah, that's not fair or just.

Toliy [00:55:39]:
Is it right for the, the teacher to have an attachment for the student to learn?

Eldar [00:55:47]:
Explain to me what you mean by an attachment for the student to learn.

Toliy [00:55:52]:
Like is the right scenario where the teacher needs to like.

Eldar [00:56:02]:
No, I'm going to help you with this. Give me the path where they're not learning.

Mike [00:56:12]:
Give me a contract.

Eldar [00:56:13]:
Someone there are learning.

Toliy [00:56:14]:
Yeah, yeah, yes. They're always going to learn some. Something, right? But I'm saying is that like, is it on the teacher to have an active attachment in I guess being so careful in this kind of way?

Eldar [00:56:34]:
No, I think if you want to, you can be, but I don't think you can form an actual attachment to learning. Because if you actually define what learning. Okay.

Toliy [00:56:43]:
No, I'm saying that like, is it like. Like we're talking about the. The teacher needs. Needs. Needs to have, I guess, like certain things together or like act a very particular way.

Eldar [00:56:57]:
No, no, no, no, no. The teacher has to have no number one awareness.

Toliy [00:57:00]:
Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:57:01]:
Awareness of the fact that he doesn't have all the shit together, but he might have some shit together. And he needs to be very careful in the way he moves between one state to the other without giving the wrong perception. Or if he is given the wrong perception, be aware that he might be given the wrong perception and be able to explain honestly as to why that which he's not yet competent in is the way it is. For the moment being.

Mike [00:57:28]:
The violation. The way I'm seeing it was in this specific example is that you like you have a teacher relationship.

Eldar [00:57:36]:
Right.

Mike [00:57:36]:
As far as the sales. Right.

Eldar [00:57:38]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:57:39]:
Now you want to bring them into your personal life and help them with the, with the stuff.

Eldar [00:57:43]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:57:43]:
You never were appointed as an authoritative figure or you never shown yourself as an authoritative figure in this world. Instead you kind of show on the more vulnerable side that you are messy. You don't clean up like blah, blah, whatever, you know, which he's seeing very clearly.

Eldar [00:57:57]:
Yeah, he's.

Mike [00:57:58]:
Whichever conclusions he drew.

Eldar [00:58:00]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:58:00]:
So the teachers responsibility or attachment, whatever the, you know, the, the word is. I'm trying to think but is to be cautious where he wants to take the relationship. If you know that, yo, I'm a good teacher in sales but like in this other area, I have a mess. I would stay away. Don't get, don't bring it in. But I think maybe there was a premature choice to wanted to engage in that thinking. Like we're just friends and we're just like, you know, hanging out, like let me ask him for help or whatever. And then you kind of like given advice.

Mike [00:58:39]:
Maybe in that case, I don't know what happened, but maybe I'm assuming is that you were trying to teach him. But he wasn't really asking to be taught in that.

Toliy [00:58:46]:
No, but, but, but like in what?

Mike [00:58:49]:
Well, you making him do work, which is for a person who's out of shape, unhealthy.

Toliy [00:58:53]:
Well, no, I'm not making him do any. Do anything. And, and first off, in that, in that example, it was explained what happened.

Mike [00:59:00]:
And then did he understand it?

Toliy [00:59:04]:
Well, first off, the instruction was for. Elder gave the instruction for him to do this. That was first off.

Mike [00:59:09]:
Right.

Toliy [00:59:10]:
And I think we, we have a clip of it somewhere. But I think you'll remember, once I bring this up, I explained to him why he was doing it. I told him that years down the line, you'll remember this moment. Right. And you'll remember that the person who's helping somebody else gets a lot more value in the scenario than the person who's being helped.

Eldar [00:59:30]:
Right.

Mike [00:59:30]:
It's a good. It's a good lesson. Is that person in the capacity to receive that lesson?

Toliy [00:59:35]:
Yeah, but in what, like, in what lessons are being taught in general? Is the person incapacity to.

Eldar [00:59:41]:
To.

Toliy [00:59:41]:
To receive. Like, what. What lessons are they incapacity to. To receive?

Mike [00:59:47]:
The ones that they're asking for more. If I tell you, I'll totally teach me how to be a better defender on the basketball court. I think that's a much more direct way of saying, like, hey, I like to be successful at sales. I want you to teach me what you know so I could be good at this, so I can make money.

Toliy [01:00:01]:
Yeah. But I feel like in this scenario, like, I'm not sure what directly is a person specifically asking for and help in general from anyone here.

Mike [01:00:12]:
Well, he had a conversation with Alder. He said he needed a job, so that's. Asked for help.

Toliy [01:00:16]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:00:17]:
Mm.

Mike [01:00:19]:
Okay.

Toliy [01:00:20]:
Yeah, he. Yeah, he needed a job. Okay.

Mike [01:00:25]:
Well, we're not providing him with a job.

Toliy [01:00:27]:
Well, like, yeah, but I'm saying, like, everything else, like, there's help being provided in all different kinds of ways. And, like. Like, if. If you're not guiding him or asking him questions. Like, I don't know if he'll. Like. Like, if he musters up the. Like the.

Toliy [01:00:50]:
Like. Like, if he's the one that's pushing any of these agendas of helping him, you know, like, I don't know, on any of these topics. What. Like, what position he's in to receive power for help or ask for it.

Eldar [01:01:09]:
I think Mike is alluding to the fact that he might be more receptive to some of the things that he might be open to in that moment if he asks for a very specific thing. And I agree with that, that when we are, hey, show me how to do this very specific thing. I think that person. That moment is more receptive than, for example, receiving something that. It's a very good lesson, understanding that being selfless and helping some other people, you actually receive more. But I think that's a, you know, a little bit of higher lesson. You know, it's like you said, it's a future thing. Future lesson.

Toliy [01:01:43]:
No, for sure. But I'm saying Can I get some.

Eldar [01:01:45]:
Can I get some tea?

Toliy [01:01:46]:
No, but for sure. But I'm saying is that I didn't like tell him to forcefully come and come do this like, or else.

Eldar [01:01:53]:
No. Then maybe this was just a bad example, a bad reference point that Mike used to. Yeah.

Mike [01:01:58]:
I didn't know the surrounding.

Toliy [01:01:59]:
This is when he was trying to get. I believe at least this is when he was trying to exercise. An elder was like, you know, you want to exercise today? We're trying to figure out what to do. Go. Go do the boxes for. Totally.

Eldar [01:02:11]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:12]:
And we're talking about. He did like, like three trips like this took like 15 minutes.

Eldar [01:02:18]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:02:19]:
And I think that he should do it on his own and you should direct him. Did he say that you shouldn't help, like as a, like if all the, if all the says, yo, you want exercise, come help me with the leaves. I'm not expecting to come there and like do the leads while they're just like chilling there on his phone.

Toliy [01:02:34]:
Yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:02:35]:
That's going to be like, yo, wait, this guy's a dickhead.

Toliy [01:02:38]:
Yeah. I don't remember what, what the scenario was, but this was like a.

Eldar [01:02:41]:
No, I definitely would not, I definitely would not instruct Harris to go do Tolly's boxes while totally sits and eats, you know, eats chips on his couch. Right.

Toliy [01:02:50]:
Yeah, that's.

Eldar [01:02:50]:
I would probably say, like, hey, go help totally with the boxes. Meaning like, totally. He's going to do the boxes and you're going to be helping him.

Toliy [01:02:56]:
Yeah, yeah. And I was helping him. I was like, we, we had to put it together into bundles. I was bundling it up and then he was bringing it down, which is this is like a 15 minute scenario. This wasn't like a multi hour laborious, like a construction project.

Eldar [01:03:15]:
Yeah, no, for sure. No. But I think that you understood the example, right? Like, what Mike was trying to say with the example is just like if there was a case, not this example, obviously, if there was a case where the person is clearly maybe like you guiding them in the area where you yourself are not fully engaged, you know, that person might lose some interest or might make certain.

Toliy [01:03:40]:
Yeah. But I'm saying also is that like the person came here for what or a job. Right. But like, like, like, at least based on my understanding is that like they're asking for help in like a multitude of ways and then I guess we're all providing different types of help where we can. But like, yeah, I don't know. Like, at least my understanding is like trying to portray A scenario where, like, I'm trying to impose my help on someone who's not asking for my help. I mean, I. I don't see that at least.

Mike [01:04:28]:
Well, I'm just giving my understanding of the scenario not from. From limited knowledge of what you guys were set out to do, but also from what Harris told me. So he was obviously this, you know, displeased with that he had a certain thing about it. So I'm just. That's only thing I heard from the horses.

Eldar [01:04:41]:
Yeah. And I think, like I said, for the. For the thought experiment of what we're talking about, that's a good example because of the fact that, again. Right. Totally had a different scenario completely in his mind. I did too. Right. And totally wasn't not just in that scenario, but Harris perceived it the way he perceived it because he wanted to perceive it the way he did.

Eldar [01:05:03]:
Right. So again, it just affirms that the teachers.

Mike [01:05:06]:
That's functional understanding.

Eldar [01:05:08]:
Correct. The teachers at least. Right. If he came back here and started saying, oh, what the fuck, man? Totally didn't do anything. You know what I mean? We as the teachers need to be able to shut that down completely and say, what are you talking about? First of all, this was the goal. Second of all, totally did this and you shouldn't be talking here. Right. Quickly shut that down.

Eldar [01:05:25]:
Correct. You know?

Mike [01:05:26]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:27]:
And in one of those scenarios where he came over to help, he brought John with him and he paid John 10. Like, he bribed John with $10 to come to also do something, which I was upset with him for doing. I was like, yeah, what's wrong with you? You have to pay.

Eldar [01:05:46]:
Yeah. Your friend.

Toliy [01:05:47]:
You're going to pay your friend. And, like.

Eldar [01:05:49]:
And my friend took the money.

Toliy [01:05:50]:
Yeah. To come for like 15 minutes. I'm like, what are you doing?

Eldar [01:05:53]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:54]:
You know?

Eldar [01:05:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:55]:
No, no, no. I think these are all good scenarios. Just to show that a lot of times. Right. There are so many factors that are involved when it comes to student and teacher relationship that the effectiveness will fall into these little pitfalls where we sometimes don't understand as teachers. Right. Number one, setting an example. Teaching, when not asked, you know, like, forcing something, you know what I mean? Scolding versus accepting.

Eldar [01:06:19]:
There's a lot of things that go into it. Right. Ultimately, we want the student to be able to learn something so they can be in a better place. But there's a lot of other variables that are in place and are, of course, taking place constantly, nonstop that are almost working against the learning experience. Right. Because we're trying to figure out how do we bridge this gap Right. Between the parent and the kid. If there is a gap, and a lot of times there is a gap.

Toliy [01:06:45]:
I, I, I, I also feel that like, and, and I mean I feel like the, this also happened to me many times where it's like if I'm trying to learn something and I'm displaying, I don't know, like arrogance or like, you know, different kinds of traits that probably like, are, are, are, are detrimental learning, like whoever I'm, whoever is teaching me or I'm trying to get information from, I feel like they'll, yeah. That they'll, they'll at times let me, I guess, be whatever I want. And if I don't want to learn or if I don't want to be humble enough to get information, then, like, that's my lost, though.

Eldar [01:07:33]:
Well, yeah, absolutely.

Mike [01:07:36]:
Yeah, that's the Right.

Eldar [01:07:38]:
Absolutely.

Mike [01:07:38]:
Perspective or understanding.

Eldar [01:07:39]:
Yeah, of course.

Toliy [01:07:40]:
Yeah. And what it's called. And that's how I also feel at times as well. Like if the person doesn't want to humble themselves or if they want to be arrogant or if they don't want to learn or if they want to judge in particular ways and that, and that, and that's what's more valuable to them at that time, then I'm also.

Eldar [01:08:02]:
Fine.

Toliy [01:08:05]:
I'm also completely fine with not providing that person that information.

Mike [01:08:08]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:08]:
But don't underestimate that even that what you're experiencing or what you're witnessing from the student. Right. Is an actual lesson that they're going through. Right. Well, it might be a little bit more further disconnected one for the moment.

Toliy [01:08:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:24]:
But nonetheless, you know, the path of ignorance, you know, the path of pride or arrogance. Right.

Toliy [01:08:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:31]:
You a lot of times have the ability to foresee that. Like, okay, cool, if this kid just walked out of Tommy walked out or whatever. Right. You know where he's at, you know why he did that, you know what he's going to struggle with. You can map out the next couple of weeks for the individual struggling whatever with whatever it is that they're struggling with. You know what I mean?

Mike [01:08:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:48]:
Like so you patiently wait.

Toliy [01:08:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:50]:
It's a lesson.

Toliy [01:08:51]:
Yeah. It's also like when, when, like, like as you were saying, when you're spending a lot of time with someone and there's all different kinds of things. Like if I'm ever talking about like, like, you know, not, not like eating healthy, but not eating a lot, it's because when we're going to lunch, I'm Definitely not eating a lot. I'm definitely not putting myself in a position to be foggy or any of that.

Eldar [01:09:12]:
You don't have to defend yourself right now.

Toliy [01:09:14]:
No, I'm just saying, like, that that's what I was doing and there were actually.

Eldar [01:09:19]:
No, no. And I think that's very good. I think that actually plays a good effect for your relationship with him. Yeah.

Toliy [01:09:25]:
I don't think ever one time I'm like, I'm pointing. I was like, like, he's not doing anything. And if I pointed it out, it's. And like, I'm also, like, completely shot and, like, can't move. Like, I feel like that. That. That scenario hasn't happened. There's plenty of times where we went together, for example, for.

Toliy [01:09:43]:
For lunch, and he saw what I ordered and he followed suit and doing the same thing without, like, me telling him, like, yo, you shouldn't get rights, you know?

Eldar [01:09:53]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:09:55]:
But I feel like it's hard to. Well, not hard. I feel like it's almost impossible to, like, not at all. Because I feel like when you spend naturally a period of time with someone, there's going to be questions asked about particular things and there's going to be, like, not direct teaching happening. I feel like. Because, like, they're going to look at different things that you do and then like. Like it's like. Like it's not like, I can keep it to just like, hey, we're just gonna have a strictly business relationship.

Toliy [01:10:31]:
And then like, I'm not going to. Like, no other part of my life is going to be ever introduced in any kind of capacity. Yeah.

Eldar [01:10:39]:
But nonetheless, I do think that you can't. Can't underestimate the fact that that individual, like Mike said, is hypersensitive. A student is hypersensitive, especially the volatile ones. Right. Especially the ones with a big baggage.

Toliy [01:10:52]:
That's what I'm asking, though. So is it on the. Is. Is it on the teacher to.

Eldar [01:11:00]:
Be.

Toliy [01:11:00]:
Hyper aware of that and kind of prevent that students like, assumptions or arrogance from happening?

Eldar [01:11:06]:
I think for.

Toliy [01:11:07]:
Or is it okay to.

Eldar [01:11:08]:
For a good. For a good teacher? I think for a vigilant teacher, I think the teacher has to keep that awareness and then he has to be able to shoot down an answer as much as possible of all the doubts, all the questions the student brings at them and takes enough time and patience in order to really put all their ducks in a row for them. Okay. And what I mean by that is that don't take it lightly that you have a student, meaning if you do have a student take him very seriously, take every word, every comment, every question very seriously. If you do that, you'll see that they almost have an unlimited amount of doubts. They have an unlimited amount of questions to your answers to your things. A good teacher will take their time and explain everything thoroughly. Where that student is finally like, I gotta roll out, you know what I mean? And he was there getting, you know, giving you the chance to help him on that process.

Eldar [01:12:13]:
And then they, you built, you built a bond, you built the trust. You build a therapeutic relationship within that moment. And that student will now have that in their brain. Right. Because you just implanted yourself or imprinted within them as like, okay, this is a trusting source that I can go to because they'll do right by me. And again you have to go and again and again and again. Because that student's going to shut off those lights again. He's going to forget about it, he's going to come back, he's going to have more questions, more doubts, more things.

Eldar [01:12:42]:
Oh, how about this? And you will see the progression of their level of questioning, their level of understanding rise. And for you to be a good teacher, rise with them. You have to pay attention. You cannot slack on that.

Mike [01:12:55]:
Well, I think that's very, you know, very interesting because it's like, that's why you're a better teacher. But not for the students sake, but for your own self. It's like if you're working on yourself. Right. Yeah. If you're doing self development.

Eldar [01:13:09]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:13:09]:
Why would you not want to be as on point as much as possible?

Eldar [01:13:11]:
This is why I enjoyed the whole process. Right. When all my friends came to me for relationship advice. Right. I enjoyed that shit. We sat hours with you, like hours conversations. Totally with you. Hours of conversations.

Eldar [01:13:26]:
Dennis, hours of conversation.

Mike [01:13:28]:
Philip, Nate, Kat, everybody.

Eldar [01:13:31]:
Hours of conversations. I have stamina forever when it came to that, because I genuinely enjoyed it. I saw the importance of it.

Eldar [01:13:39]:
Yeah, right.

Eldar [01:13:40]:
I gave the right attention because I was also growing within those conversations and I was feeling good about it, you know what I mean? And the results I was seeing, sure, maybe in real life, they weren't yet panning out to be like what the ultimate actualized goal is. But nonetheless, people slowly inched away at figuring things out with me and I was figuring things out with them, you know what I mean? And that is that relationship that you're talking about that me and you have a standing long relationship that you see me as a trusting source to go to if you need to. Yeah, you know what I Mean, but you gotta put in that time. And I'm not saying that it's supposed to be work. I enjoyed the whole process, and I continue to enjoy this whole process.

Mike [01:14:20]:
That's the whole thing.

Eldar [01:14:21]:
I agree. You know what I'm saying that to me, this is interesting, right? When Toley calls me and tells me, yo, I got the process of sales. And I believe it. He knows his shit, but he's like, I don't know the process of taking the sales package and giving it to somebody else. Because that requires teaching. I don't know how to transfer the knowledge. Happens. Transfer over the knowledge.

Eldar [01:14:40]:
This is a frustrating one to me. That's fascinating that this can be the goal. And this is what he's trying to figure out, because it's a replication of your understanding and now into someone else who can also be happy. You can change someone's life forever if you are able to pass this on. But this requires philosophy. It requires questioning. It requires asking yourself who you are, how you fit in. What's your purpose now? Are you redefining yourself? First you thought you needed to be a good salesman.

Eldar [01:15:09]:
Now you realize you have to become a good teacher. Becoming a good teacher, you have to become a good listener within this field, right? You understood how to be a good listener for the clients, right? For the. For the product that you're selling. Now you have to understand what you're selling here to the student who's also a buyer, you know? So that's how I see it. And to me, that's a fascinating process which ought to be taken very seriously. Because it requires that if it doesn't, like I said, if it's not the case, we could just buy people. Yeah, let's buy them and tell them what to do. Lock them in a room, put the fucking thing on the board and say, these are your fucking goals.

Eldar [01:15:49]:
You don't meet them, you're fired. That language is already spoken by everyone. That's a general language of the world. We can do it. That's boring. It's not interesting to me. And we already have money. What the fuck are we talking about? You know what I mean? To get more money out of that and then what? To oppress more people like that? That's not.

Eldar [01:16:12]:
That's not fun. No, but this is fun. This is interesting. That's something to be proud of.

Mike [01:16:20]:
But the question I had, the. The requirements, the work, I don't know. I'm trying to find the right words, but whatever. Required totally to become a good at what he does. Those Principles, the underlying principles that exist in that, are they any different than the ones that are required for him to be a good teacher to Harris?

Eldar [01:16:47]:
I think it's inevitable for Toly as a student, to transform into a teacher, to transform into a guru or whatever it is that you transform to. All those same principles applies. Yeah, they just look a little bit different.

Mike [01:16:59]:
That's what I'm saying. Like, the relationship here is not any different.

Eldar [01:17:02]:
No, it's.

Mike [01:17:03]:
You're doing exactly the same thing. You became a good student.

Eldar [01:17:06]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:17:06]:
And what are you doing? You teaching these clients how? You being patient, you paying attention, you're listening, you're challenging them. Right. And then they buy all these good things. Yeah, all these good things. Virtuous things. Right. And then it's the same thing that's required to Harris now, maybe more a different approach, because he's not a customer. He's a.

Eldar [01:17:27]:
He's a customer, though.

Mike [01:17:28]:
He's a customer. Yeah. Though.

Eldar [01:17:29]:
Yeah, he's a cousin. Maybe he doesn't understand that he's a customer yet, but he's a customer nonetheless. He wants to buy. Totally.

Mike [01:17:36]:
Now it just requires those things that you've applied towards this relationship with the sales. Yeah, it's required those exact same things required towards this relationship with her. So it's like if you have. If you're a master sailor and now you want to become a master fisherman, you just have to apply the same things that got you to become a master sailor into this as well. And I think those things don't change.

Eldar [01:17:59]:
Yeah, they don't. You know?

Toliy [01:18:01]:
Yeah. But I do feel it's still. I mean, at least how it feels like to me so far that it's. It feels significantly harder because when you're learning something yourself, it's like not. Not that every. Not, Not. Not that it's not the same thing in teaching. Like.

Toliy [01:18:19]:
Like everything is still on a new almost to. To. To do things properly. But, like, if. If it felt more of, like a solo thing versus another person being involved.

Mike [01:18:37]:
What was the solo thing like?

Eldar [01:18:38]:
Doing it himself. Learning.

Mike [01:18:40]:
Oh, doing it for yourself.

Eldar [01:18:41]:
Being.

Toliy [01:18:41]:
Yeah, I had to go through my own pitfalls and, like, sufferings and, like, getting things wrong or getting things right and, like, desire to learn and like my own pit of curiosity and spending my own time and like. Like it was all up to me. And in that sense, and I do think the process of teaching is definitely a lot on the teacher, but it's different when you have a living, like, subject, version, inanimate, like.

Mike [01:19:20]:
Yeah, but. But the Thing is, yeah, it's definitely. It was all up to you. But were there moments where it wasn't up to you when you're like, yo, I don't want to do this right now. I'd rather prioritize something else like that we all have our own, like, inconsistency of being tired, being sick, not being interested, not being curious for the day, overwhelmed with other things.

Eldar [01:19:41]:
Right, Absolutely.

Toliy [01:19:43]:
So, no, but nonetheless, it was still, like, up to me, you know?

Mike [01:19:48]:
Yeah, but this is all. Is this not also up to you?

Eldar [01:19:51]:
It's up to everyone.

Toliy [01:19:52]:
Well, no, I'm not saying that it's still. It. It's still up to me, but it is significantly harder when you have, like. Like a living, breathing subject.

Eldar [01:20:05]:
Why is it.

Mike [01:20:06]:
Yeah, is it harder to you or is it actually harder?

Toliy [01:20:09]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. In my experience, at least so far, it feels significantly hard that we have to explore.

Eldar [01:20:17]:
Then why. Why, like, you making an emphasis, like, oh, you have, like, a living.

Toliy [01:20:23]:
Like, well, it's not like you're trying to type out a document and then download that into, like, a hard drive. For the hard drive. It's going to be like, okay, understood, you know, and then there's no, like.

Mike [01:20:34]:
Why you had that experience in your own life. Were you able to just upload a document like that?

Toliy [01:20:38]:
No, no. I'm saying that, like, that's not what the teaching process is like, where you're just, like, uploading information that, you know, into something else.

Mike [01:20:45]:
But what process is like that, though?

Toliy [01:20:48]:
Well, none that requires teaching. That's what I'm saying.

Mike [01:20:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:20:52]:
Yeah, but learning is. Isn't like that either. Totally.

Toliy [01:20:56]:
Well, learning is not that. Is. Is. Is not that either. But I felt like.

Eldar [01:21:02]:
It'S all symbiotic relationship. That's give and take and give and take and give and take.

Toliy [01:21:09]:
Yeah, but at least, like, like, like, I felt that, like, when you're learning something, like, I. I don't know, it's more of, like, if you mess up, like, it, like, it's like, like, I feel like it's different when you're trying to. Like, communication is, for example, a big aspect of it when you're communicating either with yourself or when you're communicating with a different person. That's one thing, I guess.

Eldar [01:21:46]:
Okay, how, How, How.

Mike [01:21:49]:
I don't get it. Like, what do you mean, communicating with yourself? Well, like communicating with another person.

Toliy [01:21:54]:
Well, like, when you're teaching somebody, you need to properly communicate with another individual.

Eldar [01:22:02]:
Mm. Versus not properly communicate with yourself? Well, no, to learn something.

Toliy [01:22:10]:
No, but it's not different to communicate with like with yourself than it is with another individual.

Eldar [01:22:17]:
Not if you're trying to learn something. And if you're trying to still get to the truth, I think you still have to properly communicate with yourself. I mean, if you're beating yourself up and saying that you're a piece of shit internally and you're trying to get something, you're probably not going to get it. You still have to show a level of self, care, self love, self acceptance, patience to yourself, compassion to yourself, challenge yourself. All those things kind of apply also to the same being because the challenge is to see that there's also a being. We're talking about human beings here and we have that potential because we have that soul which is things. All knowing, knows it all. It's there, it has that knowledge, the bank.

Eldar [01:22:57]:
But how do you tap into it? Yeah, I don't really think that there's a difference between talking to yourself versus talking to another individual. I think the same rules apply. I think that if you have a hard time talking to yourself, then yes, you definitely will have a hard time talking to others for sure. And you shouldn't be. Then you might not be ready to take a level position of a teacher because if you're still bad to yourself, then, then, then you are going to be masking again, then you're going to be acting again.

Eldar [01:23:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:23:26]:
Well, that makes me think about the. The thing I struggled with for a long time was the love. Like, you know, before you can love somebody else or be loved by someone, you gotta love yourself first. What is that? What is loving yourself? Yeah, it's all the stuff we always talk about. Respect, truth, honesty, patience, compassion, consideration, like.

Eldar [01:23:43]:
And for a long time. Yeah, for a long time you thought that loving someone else would be the easier path to victory. Or like this is the first thing that you should be doing versus first applying all those principles on yourself.

Mike [01:23:53]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:23:53]:
And I think you had that wrong.

Mike [01:23:54]:
I had that wrong.

Eldar [01:23:55]:
I think you understood that for a long time.

Mike [01:23:56]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:23:57]:
Hence, you know, the self esteem, all the jealousy, all the problems, control and all the other stuff was rising up. Of course.

Eldar [01:24:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:24:06]:
But I don't think, I don't think it's any different. Yeah, it's.

Eldar [01:24:08]:
I don't think so either. The same. The subject is the subject. The subject is the soul. Right. And the soul operates in the very specific things. Like you said, it's probably more receptive. Virtuous.

Eldar [01:24:18]:
Yeah. Acts of kindness. Right. Truth, compassion, all those things are you know, a pretty universal when it comes to certain things. Right. And if they're in agreement with your soul and their soul, you can find the same page.

Mike [01:24:36]:
That's the thing that unites us all. Well, has the potential to unite us all.

Eldar [01:24:40]:
Well, yeah. That's why maybe, you know, if those people who understand the truth and they're good teachers, they set that example and those people maybe gravitate towards them because they get it.

Mike [01:24:50]:
You know, they. Yeah, you're like the ability to communicate now with Harris is. It. Is Harris. But it's able to communicate with that specific part of Harris that it's receptive to what actually is the truth about.

Eldar [01:25:04]:
The world, about life. Yeah, that's the. That's the. That's the challenge. And I got told Toli, I said, look, yeah, sure, maybe Harris is presenting this sort of challenge, maybe quote unquote, in your mind. But to me, it's like it is challenged, but it's not challenged to the things that we understand about life and about ourselves. Because I don't think Harris can present a challenge, at least for now. For now.

Eldar [01:25:26]:
Right. As the development continues, the jury will be still out on that. But for now, I don't think there's an answer that we can get for Harris's dilemmas. Some problems that he's going to throw at us.

Mike [01:25:37]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:25:38]:
You know what I mean?

Mike [01:25:38]:
And I agree, because ultimately, Harris is looking for the same exact thing everybody else here is looking for.

Eldar [01:25:43]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:25:44]:
We just want to be happy.

Eldar [01:25:45]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:25:46]:
You know, enjoy life, be happy, and that's it.

Eldar [01:25:48]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:25:49]:
If you are able to tap into that and promote that within the person and bring that other person.

Eldar [01:25:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:25:54]:
Same as you do for yourself.

Eldar [01:25:56]:
Well, you try to.

Mike [01:25:57]:
Well, you try to.

Eldar [01:25:57]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:25:58]:
You try to do for yourself.

Toliy [01:25:59]:
Yeah. But I feel like may. Maybe I'm misunderstanding it, but like, I feel like the way that we're wording it or like I'm hearing it as I like, you need to be pretty much perfect.

Eldar [01:26:11]:
No, no, not at all. No, not at all.

Mike [01:26:14]:
No. I think not perfect. But know where your areas, strength and weakness are, is definitely for sure, important.

Eldar [01:26:21]:
For sure.

Mike [01:26:21]:
I mean, and stick to those areas.

Eldar [01:26:23]:
No, for sure. And for example. Right. I don't think that Harris. I mean, I don't want to put him down and say that, but let's just play the thought experiment. Say that Harris can come up with a question that totally can't answer at this moment. Like, if Totally actually sat down, listened to the question, listened to the problem. I think totally would Be able to get it.

Eldar [01:26:43]:
However. However, this is the kicker. If Totally his head is up his ass, which a lot of times it is, I'm going to tell you right now, Totally won't even understand the question. And that can happen. And guess what happens? The trust is broken. The therapeutic relation doesn't happen, right? And that's it. Boom. Harris goes Totally doesn't have time for me to review my call, man.

Eldar [01:27:07]:
I came up to him, man, he's busy or whatever. Just an example. You have to defend yourself here, okay? Like that little disconnect, right? Totally can answer anything that he throws at him. However, if Totally is busy fighting his own demons or whatever it is, Totally might not be available at that time. Yeah, okay? And the truth of the matter is, if you want to be a good teacher, you have to drop everything and be there for that person. Everything for that moment, especially. Especially if it's not a trivial matter, right? If it's something stupid like, hey, I'm getting the coffee or whatever. What coffee should I get? Get the fuck out of here.

Eldar [01:27:44]:
You know, I'm busy. You know what I mean? You serious? Yell at him. But if it's something where you see that there's growth and potential as possible because that person is right now, like, yearning for an answer, like, about life and reality, you should definitely drop everything that you're doing and give the undivided attention to that human. Especially if you're doing something trivial. You, yourself.

Toliy [01:28:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:28:07]:
And that. And that goes to what? That goes to attachments. That goes to attachments, Right. Sometimes we are not good teachers because of the fact that we have our own attachments to things. Right? We sometimes forget that we're needed somewhere else, you know, be it our family, our loved ones, whatever, whoever, you know, we have all little attachments, and rightfully so, we do because we're also human, you know, and not always while we available to give that undivided attention that is required for that really good student teacher dynamic to flourish, you know? And you might hear it as like, you got to be this perfect fucking saint and be always readily available and say all the right things. No, no. The truth of the matter is you're not gonna bet a thousand, but the more you bet a thousand, the more likely you're gonna get to the point where the person is really receptive and like, oh, shit, they're looking up to you. And that's.

Eldar [01:28:56]:
That's what you're looking for. Especially in the beginning stages, right? So he doesn't look at you and say, you Let yourself go, boy. Watch your man boobs.

Toliy [01:29:07]:
Like, I have a lot of other responsibilities that like, I'm doing as well. And I feel like it would be very hard to provide that level of undivided, like, attention.

Eldar [01:29:19]:
Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I'm not saying that you should. I'm saying that if we're talking about an ideal situation where you have a participant, a willing participant who's willing to learn and you want that relationship to build and you want to be as effective as possible, these are some of the things that require. We're just talking about the things that it might require. We're not saying that you should do it. You know what I mean?

Toliy [01:29:46]:
No, but if they like the word require is very specific.

Eldar [01:29:51]:
Well, yeah, I think you should not underestimate what it takes to teach someone. I think this is a very important duty. That's a very important role.

Toliy [01:30:02]:
Well, I feel like I'm not underestimated. I feel like I'm overestimating here because I don't know what to do, you know?

Eldar [01:30:08]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [01:30:09]:
Okay.

Eldar [01:30:13]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:30:14]:
I don't know. Like, I feel like, like, like, am I in a position just to provide unlike, like un. Undoubted attention.

Eldar [01:30:25]:
Undivided attention?

Toliy [01:30:26]:
Yeah, undivided attention. Like that feels like probably not, right?

Eldar [01:30:38]:
Well, you have to ask, Ask yourself that question. You know what I mean? You have to ask yourself the question, how can you model something like that? If that's what it takes and that's what you might want to accomplish, how can you do it in such a way where are you are most efficient and most helpful, resourceful and all this other stuff, Right? Because, I mean, listen, anybody who's, who takes teaching seriously, I think would say that this is a very important job to do it right. You have to be very, very careful. You have to be very.

Toliy [01:31:11]:
Yeah, but then can you do anything but teach?

Eldar [01:31:15]:
Well, yeah, why not? I, I also, I also don't think that, like. I also think that you underestimate that how much teaching is actually in. Everything that you do is already organically there for him to learn. You know, even just for example, if he just was to shadow you and ask you questions around some of the things that you do observe. Like there's a wealth worth of knowledge there that you can pass it on when he asks and he's ready. You know what I mean? Like, there's just so many things. I think there's opportunities for growth and opportunities to learn and stuff like that. That's just like it's everywhere, you know? Everywhere.

Toliy [01:31:58]:
Yeah, I don't know, like, I feel like, like the way at least the last, like 15, 20 minutes I feel about. Is that like, like, like I had one understanding of it.

Eldar [01:32:08]:
Let's. Why don't you tell us your understanding of it?

Toliy [01:32:12]:
Well, what, like, maybe we can poke.

Eldar [01:32:15]:
Some holes in it if you allow it.

Toliy [01:32:17]:
No, it's not even that. It's just that like, like it feels like it's like a, like, like I'm agreeing with like how, how like important it is and how much attention is needing to be like, provided. But like, can that level of attention actually be provided?

Eldar [01:32:37]:
Okay, so why don't you say the, say what you understood say the what you're picturing because it's scaring you. And then we'll tell you what, it's.

Toliy [01:32:45]:
Making me feel that like, I'm not capable of doing this, you know?

Eldar [01:32:49]:
Why not?

Toliy [01:32:50]:
Well, because, like, I don't have, like, like, like I don't know if I have enough time, for example, to be, to have undivided attention and then to drop what I'm doing always and then to like, be this overall perfect person to like, not have any holes in like anything. I do like that.

Eldar [01:33:13]:
Yeah, I think you missed the point about like, if you're extracting that, you have to be this perfect person who doesn't have any holes. Like you just said, you completely missed the point.

Toliy [01:33:23]:
Yeah, I don't know.

Eldar [01:33:23]:
Like, let me rephrase this to you before, before you, you run with this thing, you have to be the perfect person in the moment of the lesson or the inquiry that the student is bothering you about there. You have to be perfect. By that, I mean you have to be perfectly paying attention and giving undivided attention by listening to exactly what it is the person's asking you. So if they ask you about, hey, how do I do this? A very specific thing. You first ask him. You ask him. You want to make sure you understood the question correctly, right? If you don't, then you take him on the journey of answering that question to him. Then you find out whether or not they understood that question.

Eldar [01:34:07]:
You took him on the journey of they had a problem, they had a question, you gave them all the attention you needed, and you also confirmed with them that they understood everything from A to Z within that moment, within that timeframe. So that person leaves that interaction completely full. This is the perfect interaction. This is what I mean. Not always will the student come to you with a profound question or a question that requires completely undivided to some of the things that you might answer, like, that's easy. Boom, boom, boom. That's quick, you know. But some things are very important, need to be identified as such, because there's a teaching lesson there.

Eldar [01:34:47]:
For that moment, you have to give undivided attention. You have to be perfect in that moment if you want the thing that you're talking about, the relationship, to start building towards a place where you want that student to be like, oh, shit, like, this is my guy. This is my guru. I want to follow him.

Mike [01:35:05]:
I have like a small, small example of it. But when you said something. Well, when you just said what you said. I think you have to become very good at picking up on certain keywords when the student comes to you.

Eldar [01:35:18]:
Yeah, right.

Mike [01:35:19]:
Why I said that is because.

Eldar [01:35:22]:
Like.

Mike [01:35:23]:
A few weeks ago, you know, as I told you. But I'll repeat it, James called me and he said, yo, I need your help. That is a fucking, like a crazy word from James saying, I need help. Because he usually doesn't ask for help. So obviously my ears perked up because, okay, I got to pay attention because this is something different.

Eldar [01:35:40]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:35:41]:
This person who doesn't usually ask for help is asking for help. That means. And then I obviously ran with it. I was like, okay, what does that mean? I got to make sure I give him my undivided attention, pay attention to what he's asking. So those key words, a lot of times will come. We just have to then be able to probably, maybe hard thing is to actually switch the mode because become like, okay, now I was doing something, but now I have to completely break free of that whatever was thinking about, dwelling on, whatever it is. And now give this person my undivided attention because I heard these keywords, yo, I need your help. Yo, can you help me out? Yo, I have a problem.

Mike [01:36:18]:
Can you talk? Whatever the keywords are, picking up on those keywords is super important. And then you can gauge where the person is and what's going to be required. I think that's. That's what came to my mind is the ability to hear.

Eldar [01:36:32]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:36:32]:
Very quickly pick up on. On what's happening.

Eldar [01:36:35]:
And sometimes you'll hear it right. In case. Then you'll have an example with James. Sometimes you hear it. You'll hear the panic. You'll hear the like, oh, shit, I got a problem. I'll take this shit more seriously than the other person.

Mike [01:36:45]:
I remember that.

Eldar [01:36:46]:
That incident, you know what I'm saying? I mean, me and you both experienced it totally. We dragged totally into it after the fact. Right? He was on the second or third call.

Mike [01:36:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:36:55]:
But when, when it happened, we're like, oh, shit. Like, this guy really needs our help here. Right?

Eldar [01:37:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:37:01]:
And then that thing happened where it's like, we were super prepared.

Mike [01:37:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:37:05]:
Super prepared to. Ready to listen.

Mike [01:37:06]:
Over prepared.

Eldar [01:37:07]:
Over prepared. You know what I mean?

Mike [01:37:08]:
Huh?

Toliy [01:37:09]:
Bamboozled.

Eldar [01:37:10]:
And then we got bamboozled.

Mike [01:37:11]:
Bamboozled.

Eldar [01:37:11]:
Oh, shit. You see that?

Eldar [01:37:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:37:13]:
Then we had to drop everything and like, oh, this is like, what are we talking about here? Step back, step back, step back. And I think that's a better. That's a better case scenario. And I think that's, that's a good thing. You know what I mean? We're like, we over prepared. We were ready if need be, but that wasn't the case. That was needed.

Mike [01:37:27]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:37:27]:
You know, which is fine. But nonetheless, like I said, I think that is a very big point here where you have to drop everything that you're doing and be able to really invest into that individual because their ears perked up. And you ought to take it seriously when somebody actually asking you for advice because now they're ready. Right. And sometimes and totally is very good at these keywords. You know, he'll. He'll ask and double check like, no, you're not. You sure? And if that person's like, yeah, no, I want it, I want it, you know? Okay, cool, let's go.

Mike [01:37:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:37:55]:
What do you want to talk about? Sit down. Go ahead. And like, if totally gives that type of attention, I don't see a scenario where totally loses ever. That's what I'm talking about. When it comes to perfection. Do you understand that?

Toliy [01:38:10]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [01:38:13]:
But it needs, There has to be room for that. I'm not saying that you still can't do your work or your job. You still have your duties, you still have your responsibilities. You know what I mean? But like anything else, you block out certain times, you make yourself available for training and all this other stuff, but you need to give actual time, real time, and you can't fail that individual, especially in the beginning stages where they need you, you know, because they'll quickly start picking up on cues of like, ah. Like they don't care.

Eldar [01:38:43]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:38:44]:
You know what I mean? And that's a dangerous.

Mike [01:38:45]:
Yeah. Because it could change the dynamic, like, I don't want to come to him anymore. You lose that.

Eldar [01:38:49]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:38:50]:
Thing too. It could be.

Eldar [01:38:51]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:38:53]:
Then the person starts making experiments and drawing their own conclusions, which is counter to what you're trying to do, which is teach them the right way.

Eldar [01:39:00]:
Yeah, exactly.

Mike [01:39:01]:
You know, because of some kind of weird thing that they made up in their own mind. Yeah. Again, the dysfunctional beliefs that we. That we take upon ourselves about. About life, you know.

Eldar [01:39:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:39:22]:
So you don't have to be perfect, but you have to be perfect. It's a paradoxical thing. You have to be perfect in the moment. Because within that moment, the person who's vulnerable, the person's looking for answers. He's scared, he's doubtful, he's probably judgmental of you because in the moment he's like, oh, how is he going to react? Let me throw this at him. And a lot of times this will happen. You'll see that the student will throw you fucking questions in such a way where it's like, I'm going to find the hole here. This guy ain't going to be able to answer it.

Eldar [01:39:55]:
But the truth of the matter is what I. Based on or what I know totally to know there's no answer that he won't be able to answer if Totally sat down and paid attention. Actually, you know what I mean? If you tap it into the reason, there's nothing that this person can throw at us that we cannot answer.

Mike [01:40:13]:
Well, I think even the funny thing for now.

Eldar [01:40:16]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:40:16]:
Well, the funny thing is not even answering. But even more to me, it's like the Socratic thing is to ask.

Eldar [01:40:22]:
To ask.

Mike [01:40:22]:
When the person comes to you just ask more.

Eldar [01:40:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:40:24]:
And lead them to the.

Mike [01:40:25]:
You actually like going to find out what's the core of the question? Why is it coming from. Is it a valid question and so much more information. Yeah, you know, I think that's.

Eldar [01:40:34]:
And that is where the empowering happens. Right through the Socratic method, where instead of, you know, when the person comes with the question, you actually show them that this is not the question by asking them more questions. Right. And asking them more and more and more questions. And the next thing you know, the person is empowered and they start associating yet again that experience. And with who? With you, because you took the time, gave him undivided attention, asked the right questions, cared for his shit in the moment, you were compassionate. Right. Maybe even allowed him to make a mistake or two if you see that the attachment is strong, you know what I mean? But nonetheless, you gave him that perfect moment and you were perfect for that person in that moment.

Eldar [01:41:17]:
So do you understand that better?

Toliy [01:41:19]:
Yeah, but I mean, I could be wrong, I guess, but. But I feel like I do pay attention when there's questions being asked and I, and I like, you know, this.

Eldar [01:41:28]:
Is not you defending yourself, bro. Here, like, this is not like, we're like. Like, you know, like, accusing you of anything. Like, you feel like. Like, we're, like, accusing yourself of something, you know, like, the way you're answering, like, but I feel like I do this, but I feel like I do that. Like, you know, we're just trying to understand and bridge the gap of what we talked about. How do you position yourself as a teacher if you have that opportunity to teach someone? How do you position yourself in such a way where you get receptivity, where you get a give and take relationship going, where you get the trust going, where you build the trust so then you can have thriving individuals both on both sides, and it's an ongoing relationship. You have an ongoing relationship.

Eldar [01:42:18]:
What that means is that if you have an overarching goal that both people tapped into and said, yes, I'd like to get there. Right. Everything always leads back to that goal, right within those small moments of time where you share those little moments together. And when the person leaves, goes on their own little journey, you always have the ability to route them back into those moments, those small moments, and then you can remind them of the bigger overrushing curl. And the more you have of those moments, the more likely that individual won't lose their memory or have that amnesia experience or that phenomenon that we're always talking about that we always forget. You know what I mean? What's the right thing to do and shit like that and how we should be thinking and doing stuff. So it's through those small little steps, building blocks, building, building, building, where that individual starts associating you and your relationship and your communication and your communication style, and those moments as like, oh, wow. Like.

Eldar [01:43:14]:
Like, I like that. I want to keep going there. Mm. I want to keep going there.

Mike [01:43:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:43:20]:
Why was I pestered by Nate? Why was I pestered by Dennis? Why was I pestered by you? Why was I pestered by. Totally, you guys all like, something about those interactions where I gave those moments of undivided attention, right? Where Catherine's like, yo, what the fuck? You know, tell them the off. You know, all these people taking my husband away from me. You know what I mean? And I had to fight the battle of explaining to her the importance. Yeah. Because she also wanted that, right?

Mike [01:43:49]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:43:50]:
She also wanted her time, you know, but, you know, in that moment, she wasn't very receptive, you know what I mean? She was, you know, she was a bad student. She was a bad student for sure. So, you know, for those people who were receptive at that moment, I needed to give myself. You know what I mean? I explained to her the importance of it, you know?

Eldar [01:44:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:44:15]:
You know, because I understood the importance of those moments, you know, and how much I had to give and invest in that, you know? And that's why I have, like, a thing where I feel good about the outcomes that did happen.

Eldar [01:44:28]:
Right.

Eldar [01:44:28]:
With you guys. I feel great about those outcomes. We still journeying this life together. Great for the moment, and the moment is great. I don't know how many years it's been. It's been a long time. But for the people that came and went, I also cherish those moments. Like I said, I don't have anything about.

Eldar [01:44:40]:
Against Philip or Dennis or. Or Nate. You know what I mean? Like, I don't have that. You're like. That shit was great up until it wasn't. And then we went our separate ways because we finally found a fork in the road where we disagreed fundamentally. And that's okay. That's okay.

Eldar [01:44:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:44:55]:
You know what I mean? Some people started barking up the wrong tree. Some people discovered who they really wanted to be, you know, and it is what it is.

Mike [01:45:04]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:45:05]:
So, yeah, about Shout out to Kevin.

Mike [01:45:09]:
No.

Eldar [01:45:13]:
Shit. That was a fork.

Mike [01:45:16]:
That was a serious fork.

Eldar [01:45:17]:
I must throw his boy off the balcony, bro. Yo, you know what I'm saying? Because. Especially because we all were together.

Mike [01:45:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:45:23]:
I was like, yo, I'm on that curve. Marriage juice.

Mike [01:45:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:45:25]:
I would have threw him off the balcony.

Mike [01:45:27]:
I think Kag talks you off the ledge. You saved the kid.

Eldar [01:45:30]:
Yeah. Who else was there? Was Josh there? Like, we were. We were like, four, five, six people.

Mike [01:45:35]:
Was Nick there?

Toliy [01:45:40]:
Angry?

Mike [01:45:40]:
David Davis with them, I think.

Eldar [01:45:44]:
Yeah. That was a crazy moment.

Eldar [01:45:48]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:45:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:45:49]:
They said, that's my sister, bro.

Mike [01:45:51]:
That was crazy.

Eldar [01:45:53]:
It's like, so what?

Mike [01:45:54]:
That's some Jerry Springer shit.

Eldar [01:45:55]:
That was some crazy shit. Maybe one day, you know, I'll tell the story.

Mike [01:45:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:45:59]:
In full. All right. So anything else? Anything else you upset about?

Toliy [01:46:06]:
No, it just feels like.

Eldar [01:46:11]:
It'S fucked, bro. What? It's fucked. Shit's dead, bro.

Toliy [01:46:17]:
Yeah, it just feels, like, very hard, you know? And then, like.

Eldar [01:46:22]:
Like you said, you offer the challenge. You just called me, just said, yo, I'm up for the challenge. I'm down.

Mike [01:46:27]:
Oh, he was fired up over coffee, though.

Eldar [01:46:30]:
Up until you found out the scope of service, right?

Toliy [01:46:33]:
No, but, yeah, I. I just don't like the. The fact of, like, making a mistake and then the repercussions of. Of afterwards of it.

Eldar [01:46:43]:
But how can you make a mistake? I don't understand. Like, what's the mistake?

Toliy [01:46:46]:
Yeah, I don't know.

Eldar [01:46:48]:
So then what the hell are you talking about? Like, I don't like the fact that I can make a mistake. I don't know. Like, you're not giving me the anxiety piece that's linked together with those two.

Toliy [01:46:57]:
Yeah, like, I don't like the outcomes that have happened necessarily so far.

Eldar [01:47:01]:
Right. What?

Toliy [01:47:02]:
What?

Eldar [01:47:02]:
Like what? Well, then we, me and you fundamentally disagree with the outcomes. I just explained to you which outcomes are not favorable for us. Explain to me.

Toliy [01:47:10]:
No, no, not favorable for us.

Eldar [01:47:12]:
Like, so which outcomes are you not happy with? Tell me.

Toliy [01:47:17]:
No, like, I'm talking about with, with the person's growth. Like, I want the outcomes to align a particular way and I don't feel like I've been able to successfully get them to line up in that way. So either I need to like.

Eldar [01:47:35]:
Well, let's have a. Let's examine some of the outcomes then give us some, some meat and potatoes. Like, give us something that you define us to be success and see whether or not it actually lines up with what success actually is.

Toliy [01:47:55]:
Yeah, like, for example, I can't just, like, I'm not wired to just like, specifically, for example, teach like one thing only. Like, I find that very difficult.

Eldar [01:48:09]:
Well, I'm not even sure what that means.

Toliy [01:48:10]:
Even, like, I can't just like, ignore life but teach sales, for example, because. Okay, yeah, to me it's like very hand in hand.

Eldar [01:48:19]:
Well, yeah, I agree with that. And when is it being asked of you to only teach a very specific thing without including life examples or life lessons? I mean, this whole scope of service, I think, requires exactly that which you're talking about.

Toliy [01:48:34]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:48:35]:
So why you even bring that up?

Toliy [01:48:38]:
Well, yeah, I just feel that, like, on the, on the subjects of life and sales, I want to be able to, to like, say and do the right things, but, um, it seems very difficult to be that kind of person.

Eldar [01:49:09]:
But you're saying you want to be.

Toliy [01:49:11]:
I do want to be. I just don't know what I need to do differently to. Because I really don't like any negative outcome situations happening.

Eldar [01:49:22]:
Like, I like, well, what are some negative outcomes? Can you.

Toliy [01:49:25]:
Or like, if the person doesn't respect you in something, for example.

Eldar [01:49:28]:
Right. Or like, well, does the person doesn't respect you in something? Is it because the person doesn't respect you or is it because you don't demand respect?

Toliy [01:49:39]:
Well, yeah, like, you probably don't. Don't demand respect.

Eldar [01:49:42]:
So Then that's on you.

Toliy [01:49:43]:
No, no, 100%. But what I'm saying is that I want to be able to do the right things to get the right outcomes. Okay, but, yeah, but it feels very like, either difficult or very like far fetched. No, no, no. It just seems very hard to be in that kind of position. You know, I'm not saying I'm up the challenge. I'm saying that like.

Eldar [01:50:12]:
Well, so tell me an example of where like you can misstep or what you're scared of that you're going to fail in and like, and the person all of a sudden like starts disrespecting you in that specific thing. Like, give me an example, like where is the fear coming from? Totally saying that he's afraid to get negative outcomes from when he's teaching or whatever. Right? And I'm saying give me an example of one where you like applied yourself and you got a negative outcome and now you're scared of something or you got some kind of thing that not desired. Because at the end of the day, I think the power is in you to be able to extract an outcome. Right. Like I said, for example, he said respect. He doesn't want a student not to respect them. And I said that the student doesn't respect you.

Eldar [01:50:58]:
Is it because they just don't respect you or is it because you don't demand respect? I think demanding respect and carrying yourself a very specific way, it requires the other individuals. Like, oh shit, like he's on some stuff. Like, I gotta be careful. Some people will test their fucking little waters here and there sometimes. But you gotta, you gotta show them what's up. You know what I mean? I mean in Harris's case, what the fuck does he do? Like, so you want to fight me?

Mike [01:51:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:23]:
All right, let's go. Lace up the gloves. Punch you one time in the stomach. This guy came and walked straight without fucking falling over. Are you kidding me? Like, what are we talking about here? You know what I mean? Like, what challenge can Harris bring about where you don't have authority in that fucking sphere or demand respect? Like what?

Mike [01:51:45]:
Or are you putting too much?

Eldar [01:51:47]:
And if anything, if anything, the only thing you're going to bring up is the fact that you actually yourself fucked up because you don't know what respect is. And he just followed suit.

Toliy [01:51:59]:
Well, no, but that's what I'm like. I'm not trying to blame the other individual. I'm saying that I don't want to do wrong things to create wrong outcomes.

Eldar [01:52:08]:
So then don't do it. Don't do it. Mike, you have the same dilemma, right? Come to me like, yo, again, you know, I fucked up with mom or dad or Toli or my sister, you know? You know, you're like, fuck, man. You know, like, I did this and I got this. I'm like, okay, so who's it on? It's on you. You're like, I'm fucking tired of doing this shit. I'm like, okay, do something about it. You want to do preventative care or you want to fucking pick up the pieces? You're like, no, I don't want to pick up the pieces.

Eldar [01:52:37]:
It hurts too much. I had enough of it. Same thing here. Yeah, do something about it and don't do it. You know what I'm saying? If you're an idiot, keep doing it. Go, go pick up the pieces and then cry out, cry later, you know, like a numb nuts. That's it.

Mike [01:52:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:52:54]:
So if you don't want to do it, don't do it. What is it? Some of the things you have to identify to yourself, what is it that you shouldn't be doing? That's what's going to push you to reach your higher limits. And that's where the journey of give and take happens. Where you're not just giving, you also taking. Because that student gives you the opportunity to be on your best behavior within that moment. That's an amazing challenge, I think. Yeah, it's an amazing challenge. It's very good.

Eldar [01:53:27]:
But if you fucking around, you know, like lollygagging and this.

Mike [01:53:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:53:31]:
Well, then what are you expecting you're going to get a bounce off of especially individual who is maybe a little within that moment, who functioning on a little bit of, you know, funky stuff.

Mike [01:53:42]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:53:42]:
You're gonna go there with them and then you're gonna find yourself in a sticky, disrespectful situation. Rightfully so, you know. So are you just a sales guy?

Mike [01:54:03]:
No.

Eldar [01:54:05]:
If you're just a sales guy, just sit there and grind sales. That's all you're good for. You know what I'm saying? There's no trouble.

Mike [01:54:12]:
You gotta do what you're good at.

Eldar [01:54:13]:
No trouble. That's it. There's no trouble. You don't have to worry about any kind of consequences. That's it, Right. What's the problem?

Mike [01:54:23]:
Absolutely.

Eldar [01:54:25]:
But we can still hire the robots if you want. Mike approved the budget for at least two. We get you those, keep you satisfied.

Toliy [01:54:34]:
Yeah, but I mean, I mean, obviously I'm not looking for that.

Eldar [01:54:39]:
I'm also making a joke. I obviously know that you're not taking the B option here. You want to take the A, you know, you want to take the best possible outcomes and roads, you know. Yeah. If you don't want the outcomes that you don't want, but don't get them, you know, Be careful, you know.

Mike [01:54:59]:
Yeah. The student provides a sick opportunity.

Eldar [01:55:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:55:03]:
Or the student or the like. For me, the parent, my parent or whatever. They provide the sickest opportunity for you to be a best self all the time. Anybody. And all relationships.

Eldar [01:55:14]:
Yes.

Mike [01:55:14]:
You know.

Eldar [01:55:14]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:55:15]:
Just in general. All relationships require. Well, they give you an opportunity to be your best self at all times.

Eldar [01:55:20]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:55:21]:
That's. This. This is it. And why would you not want to be.

Eldar [01:55:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:55:27]:
Yeah. But it's hard sometimes.

Eldar [01:55:30]:
Well, because it starts with you again. It's. Before you start branching out. Right. Into students.

Mike [01:55:35]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:55:35]:
It starts with you. And if you don't have your. Together, you're not confident inside, you, like, you have it like this hail, bro. This mountain, bro. This Mount Everest. Are you trying to make me climb over here, bro? I ain't ready for that, bro.

Mike [01:55:50]:
Well, that's how I felt, especially in the beginning when we started working with my parents.

Eldar [01:55:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:55:55]:
I felt like I didn't know. Like, yo. I felt like I had to be on tippy toes like a crazy fucking nutcase.

Eldar [01:55:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:56:00]:
Walking around scared to say anything. Like, can I do this? Can I not do this?

Eldar [01:56:04]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:56:04]:
You know, I was.

Eldar [01:56:06]:
And now it's almost second nature for you now.

Mike [01:56:08]:
Now it's definitely much more automatic and, like, I'm paying attention. I know what's happening.

Eldar [01:56:11]:
They still throw you some curveballs.

Mike [01:56:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:56:14]:
But you're much better. You're not on tippy toes anymore.

Mike [01:56:16]:
Yeah, no, I'm not. I don't have, like, a thing where I'm scared to make a mistake or that's like ruling. Ruling my life where I'm not, like, you know, engaging or anything.

Eldar [01:56:25]:
He just wants to oppress people. Right.

Mike [01:56:29]:
He just wants to oppress people. Well, I think the reason this is coming about is because of his philosophy, you know, which he's spoken about.

Eldar [01:56:43]:
Listeners totally just walked out, even though he did. We can say this to his face as well.

Mike [01:56:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:56:51]:
Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Mike [01:56:52]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the disagreement of the philosophy that you guys have always had of the teaching would not ask. Yeah. And I think this thing that he's having with Harris, it also tremendously affects mine and his relationship too.

Eldar [01:57:07]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:57:07]:
We have the same dynamic where there's no respect, you know? He's teaching me, but I'm like, wait, you're. You're laying in the mud too, bro. That's the dentist line, right? Check your carpet, man.

Eldar [01:57:20]:
You swept all that fucking dirt into the carpet, bro. Sure. We don't see it, but I know it's there.

Mike [01:57:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's important. I think, like, with you.

Eldar [01:57:28]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:57:29]:
I couldn't really have any. I don't have any dirt on your son, you fucker.

Eldar [01:57:33]:
Yeah. You had no rebuttals. Yeah.

Mike [01:57:35]:
I can't come to you and be like, yo.

Eldar [01:57:37]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:57:37]:
Why are you calling me out of my bullshit? You're dirty fuck.

Eldar [01:57:40]:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Mike [01:57:41]:
You know, and I think that's a. Yeah.

Eldar [01:57:44]:
Mm.

Mike [01:57:44]:
That's, you know.

Eldar [01:57:45]:
Oh, that skit, right? He's like, yo, you let yourself go, bro.

Mike [01:57:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:57:50]:
You let yourself go.

Mike [01:57:52]:
Yeah. And that's what the student believes.

Eldar [01:57:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:57:55]:
You know, because the student is not really smart, you know.

Eldar [01:57:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:57:59]:
At times in certain areas, it's normal.

Eldar [01:58:01]:
Yeah. Well, students do carry a level of ignorance, obviously, you know, Therefore, that's why they're students, you know, they need to be taught. You have ignorance. They need to be taught correct.

Eldar [01:58:10]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:58:13]:
So they will make conclusions, biases, and all these other things that are, you know.

Mike [01:58:21]:
Yeah. It doesn't mean that the persons have something to teach you. It's just your own.

Eldar [01:58:25]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:58:26]:
You get in your own way, in a sense, I guess.

Eldar [01:58:28]:
Right.

Mike [01:58:28]:
What it is.

Eldar [01:58:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:58:29]:
So bridging the gap, did you. Do you feel like you bit too much that you can chew.

Toliy [01:58:42]:
In general?

Eldar [01:58:44]:
No, with the. With the. The teaching and, like, relationship stuff, like teaching, training, you know, in general, you usually do it. Yeah, typically. Right.

Eldar [01:58:56]:
Well, no.

Eldar [01:58:56]:
Then you realize the scope of service. Yeah.

Toliy [01:58:58]:
Yeah. I just feel that, like, I have.

Eldar [01:59:01]:
A lot of loose ends.

Toliy [01:59:04]:
Well, like. Like, I have a lot of different things that I'm doing and wanting to do.

Mike [01:59:10]:
And.

Toliy [01:59:10]:
Yeah, like, with all that, it definitely feels like too. Too much.

Eldar [01:59:14]:
Okay, fair enough.

Eldar [01:59:16]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:59:17]:
Which is why it's probably feel. Feeling more overwhelming than it should be, you know?

Eldar [01:59:22]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:59:23]:
But.

Eldar [01:59:24]:
Okay, well, something to think about. All right.

Toliy [01:59:29]:
All right.

Eldar [01:59:29]:
So you want to do final thoughts for the audience.

Mike [01:59:35]:
Totally.

Toliy [01:59:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I feel like. Like, if I were to, like, see it's different when I guess, like, the.

Eldar [01:59:46]:
Like.

Toliy [01:59:49]:
You don't go and seek out, for example, the student necessarily, you know? Like, I feel like if I were in the future to go seek out another student.

Eldar [02:00:03]:
Mm.

Toliy [02:00:09]:
Like, I would. Like, I would need to do way more to make sure that I'm in a position where I have, like, pretty.

Eldar [02:00:19]:
Much all bases covered. Yeah.

Toliy [02:00:21]:
Like, all angles, all bases covered more.

Eldar [02:00:29]:
Well, that's good. That's good that you recognize the importance of the role and what it takes, you know, especially if you are, like you said, honest about that. You want to position yourself in such a way where you receive all the good outcomes as much as possible, versus getting the bad outcomes that you want to prevent so much. Mike.

Mike [02:00:53]:
No, I think I said everything I wanted to say, you know, as far as I could just repeat it. Yeah. The stuff that I had kind of said or understood about it, but.

Eldar [02:01:02]:
Well, package it.

Mike [02:01:02]:
Package it.

Eldar [02:01:03]:
How do you bridge this gap between student and teacher in such a way where the teacher does get the outcomes and the student get the outcomes, and everyone is happy and jolly and learning and growing together? Yeah.

Mike [02:01:15]:
I think meeting them where they're at is your line, you know, But I think it's very important.

Eldar [02:01:26]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:01:28]:
You wanna. You want to be that person's teacher, but you also want to be that person's friend, you know, and.

Eldar [02:01:39]:
That'S.

Eldar [02:01:40]:
That's a good one.

Mike [02:01:41]:
I feel like the. Yeah, like, that's important, you know, because ultimately the person who's come for help, they need. They need support. They need help, but they also need. Yeah, they need that support. I think that's huge.

Eldar [02:01:54]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:01:54]:
You know, and the proper approach, the super necessary.

Eldar [02:02:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:02:05]:
You know, and we discussed some of the things on this podcast on this episode of some of the approaches and some of the things that are super necessary when it comes to this dynamic.

Mike [02:02:13]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:02:13]:
So I'm gonna say one last warning. Be careful to teach when not asked. Thank you, guys.

Mike [02:02:22]:
Thank you.