149. Breaking the "Pinata" and why having fun at Ego's expense is a reward.

What happens when you speak the hard truth to someone resistant to change?

In this episode, the hosts explore the dynamics of truth-telling, ego, and humility through personal anecdotes and philosophical discussions. They delve into why speaking the truth often meets resistance, particularly when it challenges deeply held beliefs and ego-driven behaviors. They humorously illustrate how ignorance can lead to misunderstandings and the importance of being open to change and self-awareness. Through examples ranging from rattlesnake bites to family dynamics, they emphasize the value of humility and the necessity of seeing through one's own misconceptions. The hosts conclude that enjoying the process of truth-telling, even at someone else's expense, is an ongoing form of education in humility.

X

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Opening Thoughts
• 0:46 Discussing Toxic Relationships
• 1:44 Exploring Fun at Someone Else's Expense
• 3:38 Ignorance and Arrogance in Conversations
• 11:36 The Rattlesnake Tale and Ignorance
• 13:40 Handling Ignorance with Humor
• 24:58 Ego and Humility in Learning
• 37:01 Family Dynamics and Personal Growth
• 37:34 Confronting Attitudes and Beliefs
• 38:53 Confidence and Perception
• 41:28 The Allegory of the Cave
• 52:04 Media and Propaganda
• 1:01:24 Truth and Vulnerability
• 1:07:36 Understanding Accountability
• 1:11:13 The Equation of Madness
• 1:17:31 Harry Potter Analogy
• 1:19:28 The Paradox of Saying Nothing
• 1:27:34 Final Thoughts on Humility and Accountability

Transcript

[00:00:00] Dennis: On this week's episode, 

[00:00:01] Harris: I've been on the phone with my mom where she goes, I'm afraid you're going to lose yourself from being around you guys. What's 

[00:00:10] Eldar: wrong with losing who you are if you didn't like who you are? 

[00:00:13] Mike: A lot of times, right, when people are mad with the truth, they want to shoot the messenger.

[00:00:17] The messenger is just saying the truth. And I think the problem is a lot of times the person has a hard time hearing that message from the messenger. 

[00:00:25] Toliy: Having fun at someone else's expense is the ongoing education of being humble. [00:00:30] And it's going to go on for as long as you need to stay in that course.

[00:00:33] That's why we always find a new pinata. 

[00:00:35] Eldar: Hey, 

[00:00:36] Toliy: pinata. Fuck you.

[00:00:44] Eldar: All right, guys. Last week, Harris wasn't with us, but we talked about toxic relationships. 

[00:00:50] Toliy: For the record, if anybody wanted to know where Harris was. Yes, he was at the North Pole. So fuck you. He was helping Santa. He was [00:01:00] down there 

[00:01:00] Harris: in Nebraska. 

[00:01:01] Toliy: He was one of Santa's elves. It's been confirmed. And, uh, yeah, he was helping get the toys over to the kids.

[00:01:08] And he did a really good job. Down there in Nebraska with the 

[00:01:11] Harris: fucking cows, you know what I'm 

[00:01:13] Eldar: saying? By that 

[00:01:14] Toliy: he means a reindeer 

[00:01:16] Eldar: and a sleigh. So yeah, so we talked about toxic relationships, right? We answered questions like, why do people get into them? You know, for what reason, why do they stay, why do they sometimes leave [00:01:30] toxic relationships, but they come back, right, for one reason or another.

[00:01:35] And at the end of it all, we concluded something, um, that Tully said, it's very interesting, I don't know how we got there, I already don't remember, but he said this. 

[00:01:44] Toliy (2): We're listening that, like, um, having fun at someone else's expense. Is a, uh, is an in the moment reward for having your shit together. Wow. And we 

[00:01:56] Eldar: totally, can you help us expand on that?

[00:01:58] What you mean by what you meant by that and why you [00:02:00] said that in the first place? Because I think it's, um, that's an interesting one. 

[00:02:03] Toliy: Well, I, I think before we talk about that, we have to talk about, um, what is having fun at someone else's expense defined us by the, by some, by people. Like, yeah. 

[00:02:17] Eldar: Okay. Um, since Harris, like being on a hot seat.

[00:02:20] Um, I'm going to use a lot of his examples, right? A lot of times Harris comes in through here, right? And he, yes, you know, he makes examples about his, you know, his [00:02:30] life. You know, he gives us stories, whatever his, it could be about his family. It could be about his dad, his brother, whoever his girlfriend, his ex girlfriend.

[00:02:37] And the scenarios that he, a lot of times paints a very like, well, first of all, they're very funny, very vivid, but a lot of times they can be, um, maybe silly, maybe dumb. You know, um, 

[00:02:50] Harris: Oh, fuck you. 

[00:02:53] Toliy: But, but it's also like, I think it's like, like, um, aside from just that, I feel like it's [00:03:00] scenarios where people, um, say things without first thinking about them a hundred 

[00:03:06] Eldar: percent 

[00:03:06] Toliy: and, um, 

[00:03:08] Eldar: examining them, 

[00:03:09] Toliy: examining them and they're living under particular conclusions and they're ready to shout them out from the tallest building out there.

[00:03:18] Eldar (2): Yeah. 

[00:03:18] Toliy: Right. And. Generally people do this now, but they're, um, in most scenarios are doing this, um, in the presence of people that don't pay attention or don't, [00:03:30] or, or like aren't, uh, listening, you know, so they, so they more or less like just get away with it, with, with doing it. Right. But, so what you're saying is that just spewing nonsense.

[00:03:41] Yeah. Well, yeah, they, they just made certain conclusions and they have particular understandings. 

[00:03:46] Mm hmm. 

[00:03:48] Toliy: And they're just, yeah, they're just more or less spewing nonsense. Like the either, like, again, they're like speaking without thinking, um, thinking like, um, speaking without proper thought, without the [00:04:00] ability to do proper research 

[00:04:02] Eldar: or let's, let's label some of these people.

[00:04:04] Would you say some of them are, uh, people like, um, shock value, vampires, uh, people, pleasers, right. All those peoples that are kind of like live this world of like, Embellishment maybe or shock value, right? Like, or they say things without like, they have their own agenda. So they want to like present certain things in such a way where it's like, uh, fits [00:04:30] their narrative versus seeking the truth.

[00:04:32] Toliy: We can say that, but like, um, like to me, at least like the bigger thing is that. I'm not sure if these people know exactly what they're doing or how they're doing it. Like, I just think that, um, yeah, I mean, like the, in the moment assessment of the scenarios that that person who's doing that in that moment at that time is not very bright.

[00:04:57] It does not mean that they're not very bright [00:05:00] overall, or they don't have potential, um, to be, but they're displaying a particular moment of saying something that, um, is probably dumb, right? So like, yeah, like it could be a moment of trying to do shock value. It could be a moment of like, um, having a general inability, for example, to do research or to properly read, but still relaying information to people and wanting them to be like, Well, they're looking for what, 

[00:05:29] Eldar: [00:05:30] right?

[00:05:30] They're looking for a specific reaction. 

[00:05:33] Toliy: Yeah, but I think it's a very automatic, like, like, it's like. 

[00:05:37] Eldar: No, I agree with that. But nonetheless, I think there is an agenda. 

[00:05:40] Toliy: Yeah, it's happening, but it's like an automatic, like, I, like, I don't think But there is an agenda. Yeah, yeah, sure. 

[00:05:46] Eldar: There's always an agenda, right?

[00:05:47] They have a very specific thing that they want to relay. They want, they want to get that specific reaction from people, and that's why they behave the way they do. And a lot of times, for the people who are listening, right, um, those individuals, at [00:06:00] least, they can get that same reaction. They're like, what the fuck?

[00:06:02] Right. They hit a wall. 

[00:06:04] Toliy: Well, well, yeah, yeah. Like they're, they're doing this and they're like, um, daily lives and just like in all different types of scenarios. But yeah, when they come across, um, a person or maybe a group of people that are actually listening to what they're saying, um, then like how they're going to feel.

[00:06:23] Um, so, um, The default, I think reaction that people have in these kinds of scenarios [00:06:30] is that when someone listens to what they have to say, and they try to either like check them on it or have some kind of conversation or ask them some kind of questions, um, they are, they, they automatically have a tendency to take that situation and label it as a very negative one.

[00:06:46] And they started having like bad, like, uh, like, uh, like, uh, Like, um, you say like, uh, 

[00:06:54] Eldar: reaction, connotation, 

[00:06:56] Toliy: connotation to it. Yeah. Okay. So, [00:07:00] um, it, it right away turns into that because P people who act like that, um, to begin with, they have a very hard time with being like, with being wrong and they automatically associate with somebody calling them out on being wrong as like being like a bully or like a bad person or like some, you Something along those lines.

[00:07:23] So they have a very hard time taking like feedback or like, um, um, yeah, we're [00:07:30] like, just, just like admitting wrong and finding out. What what's actually right or what what's going on? 

[00:07:35] Eldar: Okay. So, so then how does this turn? How does this interaction turn into one person's actually having fun, right? At the other person's expense pretty much and why did you coin it in such a way where it's like it's almost like a reward for uh Knowing your shit, right?

[00:07:52] Well having the ability to actually enjoy that process even though it can be Not enjoyable for many. 

[00:07:58] Toliy: Yeah. Well, well, I think [00:08:00] like a couple of scenarios happen one Like These people will spew this kind of stuff or speak this kind of way. And someone else might hear and be like, that sounds like BS, but they don't say anything about it, for example.

[00:08:12] And then they continue to have more or less like a, uh, inauthentic relationship, um, with them. And then there's the second interaction where they spew this. And nothing happens. And then maybe they get the reactions that they're looking for. Like, Oh, wow. Oh shit. Or like, yeah. Like, [00:08:30] you know, like I believe in you or like, you know, like they get whatever reaction they were looking for.

[00:08:36] And then the third one is the one that's associated with being the negative one where someone's like, what are you saying? You know, what are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Can you explain what you're saying or like what you're saying? This doesn't make sense. Like here's, um, X, Y, and Z reasons like for it.

[00:08:51] Yeah. 

[00:08:51] Toliy: Um, and I feel like. When they look at that, they're, um, like the person who is listening to them and seeing what's [00:09:00] going on. Like, um, I think what's happening is that the person is, is like the person who's doing this is wrong. Like what, whatever they're saying is most likely off or wrong or whatever it is.

[00:09:15] Right. And the person who's listening, um, they're calling them out on it. And maybe there's a general sense that this person is not able. To, um, to have a [00:09:30] conversation like about it being wrong. So they automatically go on like the defense. And then when I think when the person who was listening acknowledges that when there's a recurring pattern of this, instead of like, if like two people are part of each other's lives or they see each other, like if, if, if you didn't have this, for example, fun scenario on it, it would be like way too blunt, way too harsh, and it would be like, Like just a wall right there, right?

[00:09:58] So I think that two people [00:10:00] would 

[00:10:00] Eldar: not be not be happy obviously interacting. Yeah, 

[00:10:03] Toliy: so I feel like It's like having fun at someone else's expense is basically like, um someone who's maybe in that moment Not ignorant hearing somebody who is ignorant And doubling down like you could be ignorant which which is completely fine.

[00:10:21] Yeah, right But, but, but doubling down on your ignorance, which is like resisting and going on the defense. I think that's when like the [00:10:30] sinning starts and that's when you get punished. 

[00:10:32] Wow. 

[00:10:32] Toliy: You know? So when you're doubling down by going on the defensive on your dumb shit to begin with and you're like ignorant shit to begin with.

[00:10:43] That that's now where the having fun at that person's expense happens because they're wrong And they're doubling down on their position by putting up like every guard possible To not find the truth and because they're they're like so keen to like to defend [00:11:00] Ignorance. Yeah, they ought to get punished.

[00:11:01] Eldar: Okay. So my next question to you is you gotta 

[00:11:04] Toliy: excuse me I 

[00:11:05] Harris: got 

[00:11:05] Eldar: hold on one second the call. I know you have to leave but I want you to hear this question. I want you to hear this question. So what you're saying is that your hands are not swollen because a rattlesnake bit you with its tail. Oh, fuck you, man.

[00:11:20] No, 

[00:11:21] Toliy: absolutely not. Fuck yeah. 

[00:11:25] Eldar: Ah, fuck you. You can go now, but then when you come back, you all, Catherine, an [00:11:30] explanation of why we have an inside joke about this. Why 

[00:11:32] Harris: don't you explain it while I'm 

[00:11:33] Eldar: gone? Okay, fine. I can do that. 

[00:11:36] Harris: No, what ended up happening to Tully's hands before I left is he was stung by a bee.

[00:11:40] They swell up and they were never They never went back to normal. No, 

[00:11:45] Eldar: for, for, for a while. Right. For a while, Harris was under the impression that, um, that the rattlesnakes actually, 

[00:11:53] Toliy: yeah, well, we'll tell the story. We were in the car and somehow we were talking about snakes and then the 

[00:11:59] Toliy (2): [00:12:00] venom is in the right.

[00:12:00] And Harris is like, 

[00:12:02] Toliy: Harris is like, you got to watch out for them. And I'm like, yeah, if they, like, if they bite you, you know, like X, Y, and Z happens, like, he's like, no, no, no. All the venoms in their, uh, tail. So if they hit you with the rattle, that, that's how they emit their venoms. Then Harris said that, um, that my hands are, are, are, are, are puffed up because a rattlesnake's tail hit, hit, hit, hit my hands.

[00:12:26] And he was under the impression, like, actually, [00:12:30] The venom that a rattlesnake emits is through its tail by hitting you and i'll try to explain to them No, the rattle is what they use To warn others humans or other animals. They're like, yo danger get the fuck away from me. Yeah, right um Those types of snakes are are are never like offensive animals.

[00:12:49] They're they're strictly like defensive ones, right? So like they'll only attack if there's a constant ongoing threat, but they will first You Do the rattle to warn you to get the [00:13:00] fuck out and if you don't get out then 

[00:13:02] Eldar: then you ought to get bit Yeah, so yeah, so that was just a small example of how you know And a person with some ignorance comes and he was so like he was so adamant He was so firm about it.

[00:13:12] And obviously we made bets and he definitely lost that bet. Yeah, he was feeling very tight Yeah, very upset. Yeah, but then when we googled it and he saw that, you know rattlesnakes only can bite And, you know, do the venom through biting you and not through the rattle. The 

[00:13:26] Katherine: venom is in like their teeth, right?

[00:13:29] Yes, the [00:13:30] fangs. Yes, of course. 

[00:13:31] Eldar: Like a normal snake would do, right? It bites you and then it emits the venom. 

[00:13:36] Look, we do that sometimes. 

[00:13:40] Eldar: Okay. So, Mike, what do you think? I think totally broke it down pretty well. Um, I do have a question though before Mike, before, before you go with it, right? Um,

[00:13:52] a lot of times I think that, um, individuals, right? Who at least are maybe even thinkers, right? Or paying [00:14:00] attention to some of the stuff that ignorant people tell them, right? Um, I find that they might get upset, right? They might get, uh, they might feel a certain type of way about interacting with an ignorant person.

[00:14:14] And they'll feel like, like, They almost have to distance themselves because internally, right? They don't have the ability to react in such a way where they can have fun with it, right? Well, what they start getting upset almost like, I don't want to associate myself with this fucking ignorant ass person.

[00:14:29] You know what I mean? Like, [00:14:30] because you don't know how to deal with them, right? On one hand, you know that you don't want to offend them and be straightforward. Uh, on the other hand, you don't want to associate with this idiot. You know what I mean? So you kind of stuck in this, like, I don't want to, and a lot of times I think a lot of people are just like, they'll just ban you and they'll say like, you know, I don't want to fucking deal with this person.

[00:14:45] They're completely ignorant. I think that, right, I mean, through philosophy, through reasoning, through understanding and stuff, right? And at least our general consensus of what we should do with individuals such as these, right? Let's have fun [00:15:00] at the end of the day, right? Because we're going to come across a lot of ignorance, a lot of stupid shit, right?

[00:15:05] Um, and to be, to get offended, Every single time or, you know, put ourselves kind of like on the island, right? Against the whole world Uh is also not of what not wise then it's kind of you isolate yourself, but you can't enjoy You know other pleasures about pleasures that life has to offer. So 

[00:15:24] Toliy: well um, yeah that but I also think that like um, [00:15:30] which which is like It's a very like contradictory type of like, I don't know, maybe like scenario or like advice or like, um, statement, but um, if someone if you're um, If you're in a particular moment where someone is having fun or a group of people are having fun at your expense it is like a uh, um a loud alarm that like you stop what you're doing and examine yeah, yeah and [00:16:00] examine 

[00:16:00] Eldar: i'll try to 

[00:16:01] Toliy: right because I would say that like, um, Like we we probably as a group we probably have a Uh, 101 percent hit rate usually on these types of things, right?

[00:16:13] So if this is happening to you and it, and it could happen to, you know, to all of us at like various times at different moments, like it doesn't mean that like, if, if it happens to you that you're like, Everything about you is an idiot or that you're an idiot, but you happen to be an idiot in this moment.

[00:16:29] [00:16:30] Yeah like that that there's no way and I think that's 

[00:16:32] Eldar: another skill that we can maybe talk about too that uh You know being able to separate moments versus identities and personalities completely Like just because we're being called an idiot for that moment, like you said doesn't mean that you're a general idiot Yeah, you could be however, you know what I mean?

[00:16:45] Yeah, and that's also fine, right? You need to kind of sometimes see things for what they are up until you change and then you're no longer that idiot 

[00:16:52] Toliy: Yeah, I feel like The, the, the problem I think that people have with it, um, is that one, um, if the [00:17:00] person who's experiencing this is having it, like, um, if, if we agree that in this moment that someone is being an idiot and then not only that, but they're doubling down on it by going on the defense and then going on the offense and doing that and they're doing it basically without punishment or like without like any repercussions, then why should the people who are having to, who are hearing this.

[00:17:24] Like not be not be like, uh demanded or like required to now have fun with [00:17:30] it Like that's just like that's a very 

[00:17:31] Eldar: interesting point 

[00:17:33] Toliy: It's like wait, why are you allowed to do this? But you know, we're not allowed to do that Like it doesn't make sense. 

[00:17:41] Eldar: You almost talk about then you're talking about justice Well, yeah, 

[00:17:43] Toliy: if you're going to double like again, it is completely fine to be ignorant.

[00:17:47] Yeah, but then the The arrogance of doubling down on it and defending it and then going on the offense on it, like, to me, it's a clear, like, you clearly have the green light [00:18:00] to, to now, to, to have fun at the other person's expense. And the reality is that who, whose ever expense it is, the person who's experiencing it.

[00:18:10] Like they have the absolute most to gain from the, um, situation and it's probably the best thing that could ever happen to them. 

[00:18:16] Eldar: Wow, you would have to really explain what that means. I mean, I know what that means. I know exactly what you're going with that. But uh, wow, that's a lot of, that's a lot of depth right there too.

[00:18:27] Mike, 

[00:18:29] did we say anything? [00:18:30] 

[00:18:30] Mike: I don't think so. 

[00:18:31] I don't think so. 

[00:18:34] Mike: Um, so I'm going to say that the whole topic, this whole thing statement came about my, uh, my thought is that I think it's, um, that's the description that was used when the statement of ego driven charity work was, was born. This is the example of 

[00:18:54] Katherine: that.

[00:18:55] Mike: You know, like the ego is you laughing at others. At their expense, [00:19:00] but doing like charity for them. But like still helping them out. A paradoxical phenomenon, but I do think that, um, that's why some people have a problem with it. Um, Well, not some people, but somebody specifically voiced a problem with it.

[00:19:17] So I think that, that is, I think, I 

[00:19:19] Eldar: know. I actually think that he's not, he doesn't stand alone there. I think most of the world is with, I 

[00:19:24] Mike: would agree. Probably nobody likes to get called out for their, he's 

[00:19:27] Eldar: not on the island here. I think that's a lot of people [00:19:30] will fall into that same pattern of behavior.

[00:19:31] No, 

[00:19:32] Mike: no problem. But I think what happens is, um, cause I think there could be two ways to go about it. Right. Um, you could be, um, laughing at the person, right? But then like, um, I guess, where is it coming from? Right? Like what's your intention? What's your intention? Now, if you're laughing at that person and you judging them, right, or you're not giving them a fair chance and [00:20:00] other stuff, and you kind of just boosting your own self, like just to laugh at them, that could definitely be not justice.

[00:20:08] It doesn't smell like justice or anything that we've said so far. But I do think. Um, you know, we, we have laughed at a lot of people, a lot of people doing funny things and, and all our shit was justified and all of our shit was justified, 

[00:20:25] Toliy: but I also think that like what, what people I think failed to realize who, who [00:20:30] like have this like issue with what, what you're saying is that.

[00:20:34] Prior to us laughing at them, we have laughed at ourselves, at each other, way more than we'll ever laugh at them. Yes. And they And on top of But they don't feel that. Correct. They don't view it as that. In that 

[00:20:45] Eldar: moment, I don't think you're supposed to. No. But And also to Uh, take it one step full, uh, further.

[00:20:51] Um, what's his name? Uh, the truth of the matter is, right? A lot of the times when people do come through these doors, right? The [00:21:00] first thing is not, is not offered to straight up, okay, let's just, you know, laugh at this person or whatever, right? The first thing is always offered a hand. Right. Let's, let's hear this person out.

[00:21:10] Let's see what's going on. Let's try to help. Right. And like totally said, a lot of the times when, you know, people start getting comfortable, start spewing their nonsense or talking about their life and stuff. Right. It's, uh, all that ignorance starts coming about, you know what I mean? And then when you start really paying attention, you're like, wait, what's going on here?

[00:21:25] And then when you throw a little bit of challenges here and there, right, the other person doubles down on their, [00:21:30] on their ignorance and with the pride fights with arrogance and stuff like that. And then that's when we kind of come in or whatever this is. Right. All right. And we turn on the like, okay, now we got to have fun with this, right?

[00:21:42] And yes, absolutely, it does feel like that it's at the other person's expense, but whose expense was supposed to be at? I think totally 100%, right? If that person is doubled down with his arrogance and ego and pride, right? To spew their nonsense, what, what are we supposed to fold or cry and, and uh, [00:22:00] uh, retreat?

[00:22:03] And so, you know, like I said, I don't want to be the person, right, of like, just shutting people down and not being with them or whatever, all this stuff. I don't want to be that person. No. I'm pretty inviting. I'm like, doors open. Come, come through. You know what I'm saying? Um I mean, what's for that? 

[00:22:21] Mike: Well, I think that is another, like a way to say, uh, survival of the fittest.

[00:22:26] The thing is, what you're trying to help that person is to [00:22:30] develop thick skin, to hear the fucking truth. And some people are gonna be stuck in their own ignorance. Arrogance is like, hey, these guys are assholes. And some people are gonna be like, they're assholes, but they're correct. And I think that's a step in the potentially in the right direction.

[00:22:44] Eldar: And that's what Tony talked about. I think that he mentioned that if you have the ability to sit through it just a little bit, the moment of time of like it being, you know, it burns, it's hard, it stings, right? But as soon as you jump over that little hill and make the conclusion, like, To [00:23:00] yourself, right?

[00:23:00] Internally say, hey, like, I feel like they're assholes, but yo, I think they're right. Something's wrong with me. Especially because a lot of times, remember, we don't just start right away. No, you gotta make one mistake, then you gotta make another one, and a third one, and a fourth one, and a fifth one. In the same subject matter, right?

[00:23:18] Until, and then, like, totally we'll say, hey, What's up with your dad, right? To Harris, you know, and we know exactly what's happening, right? Where Harris is lying, where Harris is scared and all this other stuff or making projections that are completely [00:23:30] incorrect. And we already know now we're just going to have fun with this, right?

[00:23:32] Because, or Harris saying that, Hey, I'm going to be here at eight o'clock, right? Like we know already, like this is BS. What are you talking about? Right. So now it's time to have fun. 

[00:23:41] Mike: Yeah. Well, the thing is bringing it to light is, um, Is like, uh, through the humor is like a way of, I wouldn't say it's like, uh, it's helping without being asked because we're not really helping, but we're also not being asked.

[00:23:56] But I think that also like does play itself out there [00:24:00] because by making the humor, by raising the awareness. We're helping, but you know, 

[00:24:06] Eldar: 100 

[00:24:07] Mike: percent potentially sometime down the road, that person will be like, damn, those guys, they said some shit a long time ago, but I finally realized it might be true.

[00:24:14] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:24:15] Mike: You know, correct. And I do say, I 

[00:24:16] Eldar: do say a lot of facets to it. Yeah, I do. I do think that based on these little nuggets of knowledge, truth, you know, trolling or challenging, there is a timeline that's attached to each one and where it's going, that timeline has to run out. That time [00:24:30] has to pass, right.

[00:24:31] For you to finally sit down and say. Oh, shit. That's what they were raising awareness about. Yeah, even though you weren't ready for that at that moment, 

[00:24:39] Mike: well, you have to, um, no, you don't have to, but people reflect, there's a natural process when they slow down enough, they started thinking about shit randomly or not randomly that has happened to them, that they have some kind of pain or not pleasantness, uneasiness you said, uneasiness, yeah, so, 

[00:24:58] Toliy: yeah, I think that like [00:25:00] the hardest part about it is that, um, there, there is like, um, a large demand that maybe I have for people, um, Like the, uh, the, uh, demand for you to actually like improve or benefit, um, involves you being humble, you know, and that, and that is, and, and that is a, um, a price that people are not willing to pay, [00:25:30] you know, they're, they're not willing, 

[00:25:33] Eldar: you mean the egos of the people?

[00:25:35] Toliy: Yeah. Like they're not willing to, to use this, to go with this approach of being humble in the moments where it's required for them to get the help they need or, or understand the things that they understand. Because of that, um, it's a very difficult experience to endure if you're not willing to use that currency.

[00:25:57] Eldar (2): Mm. 

[00:25:57] Toliy: But if you are willing to use that currency, [00:26:00] then like, um, I think it becomes a lot simpler and e and, and easier, you know? But if you're gonna hold tight to it Yeah. Then it's gonna be a very painful experience. Okay. 

[00:26:13] Eldar: Um, let's bring, and that's proven over and over again. I agree. I agree. Let's bring the age old argument of certain individuals.

[00:26:23] That we know, right? That say, Hey, you should use a softer approach. You guys might be on to [00:26:30] something, but just be nice a little bit. Can't you just 

[00:26:34] say it in a different way? Can't you just be more sensitive?

[00:26:42] Mike: So what's the question around it? Can't you? Or you can? Well, that's the question, right? 

[00:26:47] Eldar: Like, you know, to play devil's advocate, obviously I'm completely against this, right? whenever the request was made, right? Um, I think that if you dissect everything that totally says and you realize [00:27:00] that, um, the type of injustice that is being done from their ego and arrogance, right, actually requires a very specific Reaction right in order to be countered in order for but the potential of humbling to take place, right?

[00:27:15] Uh, there's no level of sensitivity or being patient or being extra soft and all this other stuff is going to offset Of that pride and ego. 

[00:27:23] Toliy: Yeah well, I think the difficulty is is that um, I think that [00:27:30] people don't like if if this was actually to happen, I think it would be completely different I feel like people don't understand You Um, like what they say and in the, and in the manner of which they like, uh, like behave themselves, you know?

[00:27:43] But if in, in those kinds of moments. If there was a mirror, and it would turn you into like from that movie, Sir Darth Vader, to that like really ugly type of monster. And it would be extremely like scary and disgusting, with like, you know, the nastiest things [00:28:00] coming out of it. 

[00:28:01] Eldar (2): Yeah. 

[00:28:02] Toliy: Um, I think those people would think otherwise, but I feel like in those moments, they don't understand.

[00:28:10] But isn't 

[00:28:10] Eldar: that exactly what happens when, when they're faced with quote unquote monsters such as us? Well, um, isn't that actually us turning that mirror against them to really bring out the, the extraordiness, right? Because like we have the ability to troll to the, to the end, to the death. 

[00:28:29] Toliy: [00:28:30] That's what's happening, but I'm saying that the person themselves, they don't see it in that kind of way, right?

[00:28:35] So when others like observe it from the outside, or maybe they're reflecting on their own thing, and they want to, um, like a softer approach, I think it's because they're Extremely cheap with those humble tokens that are, um, the, the, we demand of. Right. And because they're not willing to use those and they say, Hey, I still want to benefit in the way that like what you have to say, but I want to hold on to this one.

[00:28:59] [00:29:00] I 

[00:29:00] Toliy: don't want to pay this time around. 

[00:29:01] Yeah. 

[00:29:02] Toliy: Right. And they continuously want that because, um, they, they basically, they, they want the gains, right. Of, of, of like what could potentially happen. Yeah. But they're not willing to go to that place where you have to pay with that humble token that it's required for you to like face the truth and learn.

[00:29:21] Why is that? Do you think, well, because, um,[00:29:30] 

[00:29:30] yeah, their, their ego is so big and the bigger, the ego you have. That currency is like, you know, like you're a forever hold holder of it. 

[00:29:38] Eldar (2): Mm-hmm . 

[00:29:39] Toliy: And you never want to give it up because, um, you feel that it's gonna portray you into a weak, like being viewed upon as like a weak person. 

[00:29:48] Eldar (2): Mm-hmm . 

[00:29:49] Toliy: Right. Or a dumb person.

[00:29:51] But the reality is, is that you are a weak person and you are a dumb person. Mm-hmm . And it's completely fine for the people around you to see that in you. [00:30:00] Because I think that that that's where like your growth and your learning will actually start. They don't want that. Like it's, it's like the same thing.

[00:30:09] And like in the, you know, like when we watch like a love Island, right. Where like someone could do something extremely stupid or dumb and somebody might call them out on it. And they're like, you're making me look like an idiot in front of everybody. But they always use that word. You making me look like it.

[00:30:25] But the reality is that you are an idiot and it is just simply being [00:30:30] pointed out. That you are an, an, an idiot, you know, so yeah, the, the, the ego has a very hard time relinquishing those tokens for learning 

[00:30:42] Mike: and it's not a conscious effort, right? Like I'm going to use my ego, but it's 

[00:30:47] Toliy: a, what is it?

[00:30:47] Automatic response. I, I would say that it's probably, um, derived first from, from some kind of trauma and some kind of fear, and then it gets programmed to be a subconscious. Automatic 

[00:30:58] Eldar: response, but [00:31:00] okay, that's a very small 

[00:31:01] Harris: fuck. It's still blabbing, huh? 

[00:31:03] Eldar: Yeah This is a very interesting what you just said i'd like to know How I think of of such nature of like ego pride, right?

[00:31:13] Uh gets to be lodged into the subconscious subconscious and becomes an automatic behavior Is it because the subconscious? Don't have, doesn't have a filter for good and for good and 

[00:31:25] Toliy: bad. Well, no, I, I, I, I don't know if it has a filter for, I think it's, um, 

[00:31:29] Mike: [00:31:30] I think it's a value proposition in the moment of pain.

[00:31:34] What do you go for? Like he said, there's a trauma response. If you're in a trauma, right? You're like the way, okay. Okay. I 

[00:31:40] Eldar: understand now. Okay. I understand now. Okay, I got it. Because the trauma is actually, the trauma, whatever the trauma is, is actually, the pain level is 10, right? But evoking or summoning ego and pride is actually maybe at 8 or 7, okay?

[00:31:58] So the pain that you receive from being [00:32:00] egotistical or prideful is actually less than the actual trauma itself. Therefore, you resort to that which you know best. Well, 

[00:32:05] Toliy: no, that, that's the, uh, That's the funny part about it is that it's all an illusion. It is an illusion. It's an illusion. But that's how it feels.

[00:32:13] They, this is what they think that in this moment, like, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm in a very like firm belief that like, um, if there's something about you that is like bad or you don't like, or that like you want to change or like that you like can identify as like ignorant. [00:32:30] Right. I'm a very firm believer that.

[00:32:33] You need to consciously take yourself and put yourself on the floor like you're like you need to put yourself that you're at, you're at the bottom and that's completely fine. Because I think if you do that, you will have the most opportunity to listen and to learn and to consider and to like actually put yourself in a position to find out what's going on, right?

[00:32:57] Um, but if you, but, but [00:33:00] that's extremely difficult for people. To do. Yeah, that's a crazy ask, bro. Yeah, well, yeah, but it's not even a crazy ask. To me, it's a requirement. 

[00:33:11] Mike: No, no, no, I 

[00:33:12] Toliy: think it's a requirement. No, I agree with you. I agree with him that it's a 

[00:33:15] Eldar: requirement for a good 

[00:33:16] Toliy: life and salvation. For sure.

[00:33:18] Well, well, well, no, to me, it's on a moment to moment basis, right? If you actually want to learn, you need to, like, I Um, and, and, and in like [00:33:30] a metaphorical sense, sit down on the floor and cross your legs and, and look up and pay attention. And while the teacher is sitting in their chair, right, that it's higher up, then shut the fuck up.

[00:33:41] Like that, that is the reality of what, like, of what that metaphorically is. And it's completely fine. Do 

[00:33:49] Eldar: you understand what he's saying or no? Yeah. He's the fucking teacher. And he said, shut the fuck up. Yeah. No. No, he said that every time you come here, right through these doors, you have to. You have to go straight to his desk.

[00:33:59] [00:34:00] You have to take off his shoes. . 

[00:34:02] Harris: Okay. That's just getting funny. No. Okay. Not okay. You have to clean 

[00:34:05] Eldar: his shoes and put them back on. And also ask potentially if he wants a foot massage. And if he does, you rub his feet before you put on those sneakers back. 

[00:34:14] Harris: You know what he, what he can do. You know what he can do?

[00:34:15] He can kiss my beautiful white fucking ass. 

[00:34:19] Eldar: Sure. And he might. But I'm telling you, this is what he's saying. No. Okay. It's not gonna happen. 

[00:34:24] Toliy: Okay, fine. First off, we already identified, you don't have an ass. It goes from back to legs. You [00:34:30] don't have an ass. I'm a 

[00:34:30] Harris: flat ass, motherfucker. I got my father's ass, as my mother always said.

[00:34:35] Paris. 

[00:34:36] Eldar: Paris. That might be the fastest path to victory for you here, man. 

[00:34:40] Harris: I'm not fucking cleaning anyone's fucking shoes and giving them a foot massage. See, that, 

[00:34:45] Toliy: that, that is like an overall, like, 

[00:34:46] Harris: pattern. The fastest 

[00:34:47] Toliy: path, you said? 

[00:34:48] Harris: Yeah, it's the fastest path. Well, no, you see what he said? He might want, he might want a foot massage, but he needs this is, this is a 

[00:34:54] Eldar: metaphor of what he said.

[00:34:55] You have to be on the floor, right? You have to be at the bottom, right? And I think that's a very [00:35:00] interesting thing because it reminds me of I'm out of here, motherfucker. Yes. He reminds me of who, who, who, uh, which practice Mike actually, uh, makes that very clear. Buddhist philosophy, Eastern philosophy.

[00:35:11] When the teachers teach, they have to sit above the students. Yeah. Or they sit almost on the throne, like thing. Yeah, they go up on the throne. Correct. Right. For that moment, they go up on the throne and the teacher and the students 

[00:35:26] Harris: are on the floor. I just want to state. When I came into this office, look [00:35:30] where I started, and look where I've grown, you understand that?

[00:35:32] I do understand that, I do understand that. 

[00:35:35] Eldar: And 

[00:35:35] Harris: listen, 

[00:35:36] Eldar: and 

[00:35:36] Harris: I'm not here to I don't know what you're smiling about, it's your work that's done it, dumb nuts. 

[00:35:42] Eldar: This is true. This is true. 

[00:35:44] Toliy: Yeah, if, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll say one thing to, uh, electronic companies out there. Mm hmm. If they want to figure out what's the best noise cancelling technology out there, they need to have deep conversations with the most ignorant people.

[00:35:58] They have the best noise [00:36:00] cancelling 

[00:36:00] Harris: tech out there. He's calling me fucking ignorant? 

[00:36:03] Toliy: I'm not sure if he's talking about you. I'm not talking about you. Yes you are. You're the future 

[00:36:07] Eldar: president of this country, my friend. 

[00:36:08] Toliy: First off, you're way above the average person. 

[00:36:13] Harris: Let me guess. That's, uh, 

[00:36:15] Eldar: no, that's not a trick question.

[00:36:16] No, but 

[00:36:17] Harris: that, that was created here. Correct. What was created your work, your time and 

[00:36:23] Eldar: effort? No, no, no. I think that we've probably, uh, maybe even unlocked certain things, but I think you as a human being has certain [00:36:30] potentials in you that we have now, I think that you might be in the right place. We'll see.

[00:36:34] Time will tell jury is still out. Right. That I think that we might be able to tap in collectively together in order to unlock certain Certain powers that you might have, uh, lodged in inside of you. Okay. I think that it's nature meets nurture. Right. And they can potentially do. Well, I think we're already 

[00:36:54] Harris: seeing improvements.

[00:36:55] And listen, my mom says she does not like a lot of it, what she's saying and how [00:37:00] really why give 

[00:37:01] Eldar: us examples. Then give us some examples because some juicy hot guy, you went to see your mom. You haven't seen her in a couple of months. 

[00:37:07] Harris: Okay. She goes, you're. The way you act, the way you do, you are now, it's completely changed and I don't like what I've seen.

[00:37:15] Okay, what are we talking about? She goes, you're no longer yourself. Okay, what does that mean? My attitude to things. Okay, like what? I call out bullshit. Wow. Yeah, uh, I actually, uh, put my brother in his [00:37:30] place. Oh, you got to give us 

[00:37:32] Toliy: some details. Yeah, so give us some examples. Everybody has a problem with giving out them humble tokens, you see?

[00:37:37] Harris: Yeah. My brother, uh, being his smart ass, never serious, never serious about life, nothing. I put him in his fucking place. I said, listen. Enough 

[00:37:50] Eldar: is 

[00:37:50] Harris: enough. Yeah. My mom even said in the car how, you know, certain things aren't the way they're supposed to be. Oh. Um, [00:38:00] uh, his. Attitude to life, uh, doesn't give a fuck, he claims he doesn't give a fuck about whether he lives or dies, you know, uh, I mean, come on, you don't give a fuck now, but when the time comes and you get a fucking diagnosis, you're gonna give a fuck, guess what, it's gonna be too fucking late, uh, 

[00:38:24] Eldar: But your mom still likes your attitude towards these things.

[00:38:27] Harris: My mom likes my attitudes towards things, but she doesn't [00:38:30] like my, my attitude towards life. Okay, like what? It's changed, right? For the better or for the worse? Well, she says I'm becoming more of a salesperson every day in my everyday life. Really? Yeah, and she doesn't like it. 

[00:38:46] Mike: I'd love to know, like, actual examples, here's some details, like examples of her, of how, like her problems, how is she, how is she developing?

[00:38:53] My confidence 

[00:38:54] Harris: has gone up to certain things, and I don't think anything is not reachable anymore. Oh, [00:39:00] wow. So she doesn't like that. She, she, she thinks I'm very cocky. Oh yeah. Even when I talked to her on the phone, she was like, I don't like the way you're talking. I don't like the way you're using. Big words.

[00:39:16] Big words, that's exactly right. The ways I'm talking about shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 

[00:39:20] Eldar: yeah, 

[00:39:20] Harris: yeah. Well, 

[00:39:21] Eldar: sure, if you're listening, trust me, we're working on this part. We want to make sure your son is not arrogant by the time he's the President of the United States. 

[00:39:27] Harris: She doesn't, she can see [00:39:30] the way I'm changing.

[00:39:31] Yeah. And she doesn't feel like I'm myself anymore. Yeah, okay. I don't see anything wrong with the way I'm evolving. 

[00:39:39] Eldar: Okay. Well, listen, we, a lot of times, right, um, we might see the progression that you have here. Right. Um, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's not that the difference that you might, the different image that you might be presenting from here to out there can be, can have a huge disparity.

[00:39:58] That means it can be [00:40:00] very different, right? You can be here, here, right? For example, up there. Outside, you can be up here so much higher, meaning like your ego, your pride, your arrogance might be boosting up because you might be talking to the, you know, to the lower tier of individuals.

[00:40:16] You know what I'm talking, just make an example here, you know what I mean? So you like, you want to like throw your weight around a little bit. 

[00:40:23] Harris: Brittany's family, but 

[00:40:24] Eldar: I'm telling you right now, Harris, this is not the point. The point is for you to be able to see everyone as equal as best as you [00:40:30] could. But I've not 

[00:40:30] Harris: even seen anybody differently, but certain people are not liking.

[00:40:34] Yeah. Wait, did you 

[00:40:35] Eldar: tell them that they should talk to you? Nice 

[00:40:37] Harris: bitch. No, I didn't. But I think even Brittany's family have been following my journey. Ah, and you know, uh, Britney sister's fiance. Yeah, basically was like, yo, I've been following you. You know, you've been in a Bermuda you're going places 

[00:40:52] Yeah, 

[00:40:53] Harris: he's been following my new jobs that I'm adding to my Facebook Yeah, he's like you're going places and [00:41:00] you know, he's like, I'm proud of you kid.

[00:41:01] You finding your way you're finding your niche 

[00:41:04] Toliy (2): Little mama, 

[00:41:05] Harris: you're finding your niche. And yeah, you're going places good. 

[00:41:09] Toliy: Yeah, I think it's like a Um Like a forever generational threat that, um, um, the moment a non thinker, um, can identify someone thinking it's an automatic threat. What are you talking about?

[00:41:26] What he's talking about 

[00:41:28] Eldar: is the allegory of the cave. [00:41:30] Your boy Socrates said, right? He's already said, check this out. Right. You right now, right? Imagine you And your whole family members and the whole clan that you came from, you know, all those weirdos, right? 

[00:41:43] Harris: That's fucked 

[00:41:44] Eldar: up, man. Just picture this, right?

[00:41:46] You still with them, you wearing the same clothes, you with them, but you guys are all inside a cave, okay? And the cave is dark, dirty, smelly, right? What the fuck? Well, think about it, right? You guys all there, like the [00:42:00] John, your mom, you, your brothers, everybody's in there, right? And you guys can't see the way out.

[00:42:05] Everything's dark. And one day you wake up and I separate myself from the car. No, no, no, no, yeah, wait, listen, this is what Socrates talks about, right? He says, hey, one day, you start seeing the light. You're like, at the end of the tunnel. You're like, oh, what's out there? And slowly you start crawling out of this cave.

[00:42:21] But those people are still there. And one day you come out of the cave and you're like, What the fuck? Look at this fucking world. The world has so [00:42:30] much to offer. The birds are chirping, right? You hear the beautiful water creek or whatever around you. You're like, wow, amazing colors. Everything's green, blue, red, flowers, smells nice, right?

[00:42:42] You don't want to go back into the cave. Yeah. You just came from there. You just realized like, holy shit. This is amazing. So Socrates question is, what's the right thing to do? Do you have to go back into the cave and help those people out because you know they're there? Or do you go and [00:43:00] enjoy this new beautiful life that you've discovered?

[00:43:03] All right. So hold that thought. I just want to make sure he understands what the algorithm of the cave is. 

[00:43:08] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. I was, I was just trying to say that it, it's like a multi like thousand year or like, you know, like how, however long humans have been, um, alive. Right. Right. Right. That listen, there, there, there's always going, going to be those moments when someone, for example, changes and they [00:43:30] gain, uh, um, uh, knowledge and someone else who hasn't or maybe doesn't understand it, but they can kind of feel like an energy shift or maybe that like something might, might be different now.

[00:43:43] And because they can sense that kind of change, they automatically feel, um, threatened. And 

[00:43:49] Eldar: that's what Socrates talks about, that he says, he argues and says that if you go back into that cave and try to pull those people out, they're going to fight you. They're going to say, leave me alone. I'm scared.

[00:43:59] Don't touch [00:44:00] me. Because they're used to their own world. They're so deep in it that you will become a threat. And that's what Tully's talking about. 

[00:44:07] Harris: I mean, I've been on the phone with my mom where she goes, I'm afraid you're going to lose yourself. The way you are changing from being around. You guys elderism, elderism, and she goes, I'm afraid you're going to lose who you are and, uh, you know, what's wrong with 

[00:44:27] Eldar: that?

[00:44:28] What's wrong with losing who you are? If number [00:44:30] one, you didn't know who you are. Number two, you didn't like who you are. 

[00:44:37] Harris: I guess my mom, 

[00:44:38] Eldar: does your mom want a perpetual 

[00:44:39] Harris: of my, who I am. Okay. And what is that? The nice kind hearted. Uh, and I, I told my mom, I said, sometimes you can't be kind hearted. Like you can't let yourself take advantage.

[00:44:52] I mean, I don't 

[00:44:52] Toliy: think it's about being kind hearted. It's about like letting people 

[00:44:56] Harris: walk all over you. 

[00:44:57] Toliy: Well, like if, if your [00:45:00] life is about like a, like a perpetual cycle of like, Dog shit, like experiences that you have. I think it's completely, um, fine and, and, and, and definitely encouraged for you if you can identify those things and change those things about you, that it's a good, good death to have.

[00:45:16] Harris: Yeah. I guess my mom has gotten used to who I am and doesn't want to see me. That's the 

[00:45:22] Toliy: thing is that if people are used to a potential, like, like, like a, a, uh, very [00:45:30] like mediocre life experience, if they feel that you're distancing from that, like sludge. They're gonna do everything they can to grab on to you and bring you back in like that's 100 percent 

[00:45:42] Eldar: they might even say hey, man, we had a relationship for 12 15 years 20 years.

[00:45:46] What's going on? You're throwing our friendship away or our relationship away for what? 

[00:45:51] Harris: Well, well John John has said like watch, you know, [00:46:00] watch out for you. Watch out for them You know, like don't let them Um, everyone seems to be against all of this 

[00:46:12] Mike: and did you tell him how you feel since you started here?

[00:46:15] I've never been fucking happier. 

[00:46:18] Eldar: That's a pretty good testimony, you know, but are you on to some kind of spell? 

[00:46:23] Harris: They think so probably My mom insists john insists [00:46:30] You are trying to sway the world with your cult mindset. 100 percent elderism has been coined by Dennis. Yeah, like, uh, I said, yeah, I said some good news.

[00:46:43] I say we're opening a church. You're all invited to the Serum. Yeah, we're going to speak Socrates. We're going to tell the truth. You know, nothing but the truth, nothing but the truth from the big man himself. Yeah. Yeah. We [00:47:00] seriously need to open a church of our own, man. It's time. We're working on it. We're working on it, yeah.

[00:47:04] And we're going to be, we're going to stream our sermons, man. 

[00:47:09] In our underwear, right? Yes. Yes, I like it. Come to the Church of Elderism. Yes. Drink the Kool Aid.

[00:47:19] Eldar: Yeah. It's, uh, it's, that's interesting that, you know, I mean, we conclude everything that's correct about the experiences. We kind of. Yes. Was already experienced and 

[00:47:28] Harris: they're under 

[00:47:29] Toliy: this way, [00:47:30] man. Yeah, I feel like Overall like Lisa numb in in a My life right like I can bring a very confident testimony that like like from from from a young age when I started to Um, say particular things or was like arrogant with particular things or like had like, like, uh, very [00:48:00] strong takes and not, and like nonsense I would bring, like, bring up, I felt like, um, like you, you would always allow me to, to bring it out and show it so I can show my, my whole, like, uh, like a deck of cards, you know, to see like all the plays I have and like everything, and then like, um, anytime where like, you know, If, if I could get to a point where I could humble myself and like learn and like, um, um, [00:48:30] and put myself in a position to actually like, uh, listen, only then I would receive help.

[00:48:35] And I'm like, I feel like there is, I, I, I cannot, like, I cannot picture any other way where, um, it's possible for you to progress as an individual without that. 

[00:48:51] Harris: Is it so bad to you? 

[00:48:53] Toliy: Unless you're willing to limit yourself to maybe your own. Um, knowledge and your own, like, if, [00:49:00] if, if you're your own, like judge, jury and executioner, then like you could create whatever rules in your own world that like you want.

[00:49:09] But if you don't want to subject yourself to just your own creations and like your own, like, I don't know, 

[00:49:16] Eldar: perceptions, wrong perceptions. Yeah. 

[00:49:18] Toliy: Yeah. Like perceptions. Then I think that like, it is an absolute requirement, um, for learning, for learning. I, I, like, I, I, I just don't see it any [00:49:30] other way. And it's, and, and like, it, it's, it, it's so crazy because it's like, after you actually learn something, I think it's impossible for you to walk away with saying that, like, Hey, it wasn't worth it for others to view me as an idiot because now I have this lifelong learning.

[00:49:47] Like, 

[00:49:48] Eldar: what are we talking about? If you put it that way? Yeah. Like how, 

[00:49:51] Toliy: how can you like, because that, that, that. That's the fear of the whole time, right? Is that like, Hey, um, [00:50:00] people are just afraid of putting themselves in, in, in, in a vulnerable situations that, um, exists outside of them themselves. They're only okay to be vulnerable inside of their own self, you know, and like talking to their own self on their own terms, on their own terms, but for learning and development to happen and for you to basically like, Like taste the goodness of life.

[00:50:27] You, you need to have that and you need to like, [00:50:30] um, put this vulnerability in like maybe another person's hands or maybe in a group of people's hands where like, um, like I firmly believe that they have to have the ability to like crush you completely, but something tells me that they won't, but I think that that is a absolute mandatory thing.

[00:50:50] Like there, there's absolutely no way. Well, yeah, I, I, I, I can't find an argument against 

[00:50:57] Eldar: Paris. What 

[00:50:58] Harris: was the question? No, I didn't have a [00:51:00] question. I'm going back to my family here. I asked my mom, is it so bad to throw out things from your old self to evolve? 

[00:51:12] Yeah. 

[00:51:12] Harris: Uh, I said, you can't get to the top without changing things, but she feels us.

[00:51:20] That I'm going to lose where I come from, who I am, and I said, well, that's part of it, right? You know who [00:51:30] I am because, uh, Eldar has opened my eyes to a lot of things in this world that are fucked up, uh, which I realized that they're not, okay, they're not going to accept and agree with because like, like I brought up, like I said, my, you love seeing it.

[00:51:55] Right. It's all propaganda. Mm hmm. [00:52:00] And she did not like that. Mm hmm. She's like, it's not propaganda, it's the news. I said, it's the news they want you to fucking hear. Mm hmm. I said, they don't tell you shit you don't want to hear. What are they hiding? What are they fucking not telling you? What's behind the scenes?

[00:52:13] But 

[00:52:14] Eldar: if the news was, if the news was the news, right? We wouldn't turn to a different channel like Fox News and hear complete opposite. I'm 

[00:52:21] Harris: saying everyone has their own take. 

[00:52:23] Eldar: There you go. So what are we talking about here? 

[00:52:25] Harris: If you dig deep, deep down, right. Each one is trying to [00:52:30] brainwash. That's right. And my mom wasn't here because my mom's a diehard CNN person.

[00:52:35] My brother's a diehard CNN person. David, uh, Ari's a Republican, diehard, you know, he'll claim he's an independent, won't admit who he voted for, you know, uh, but they, she won't believe that shit. The news is the news. Yeah. Fox news is fake news. I mean, my mom has a mindset. [00:53:00] She's in her ways and I don't think 

[00:53:03] Eldar: and I think that totally like we're just totally just said if you paid attention He said that if you want to live in that world of your own perceptions that you created that illusion Well, how do you pull them out?

[00:53:14] Oh, well, that's that's the thing, right? That's a good question That's the cave algorithm the cave of what Socrates talked about, right? How do you pull them out and should you and will you or you know, what's the ethical dilemma there? But like if that's the perception in the world that they're living in You And they choose to, and they want to continue doing it, [00:53:30] then that's on them.

[00:53:31] They have that choice. However, the problem happens 

[00:53:37] Eldar: when you living this specific lifestyle, right? Thinking about your own stuff, you own your own world, right? Your own nonsense starts to cross. Somebody else's path. She starts bringing the nonsense to the, I don't know, Thanksgiving table. On the phone calls to you and stuff like that.

[00:53:57] She starts telling her propaganda [00:54:00] and your propaganda. And if you're an individual who likes to think, likes to analyze stuff, and you know what you're talking about, you're gonna start asking questions. And what's going to happen is you guys are going to start butting heads. And that's going to be the inevitable thing that Tony just described.

[00:54:15] Harris: We have buttheads. Well, that's what I'm saying. We've made the calls. You remember the, when I called her and said, trust is dead. 

[00:54:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:22] Harris: Yeah. She shouldn't agree. She didn't understand. 

[00:54:24] Eldar: That's fine. It should. I don't think a lot of people will agree and nor they should, nor should, [00:54:30] should they agree up to some of the things, some of the conclusions that we're making here, because in order for them to make the same type of conclusions that we have here, uh, you have to really sit through the knowledge and understandings that we've come across.

[00:54:42] There's a reason why we say what we say, you know, and if you're not really here, you're not really listening and paying attention to what's going on, you won't know the context. So, of course, uh, you know, a fucking hundred year old, two hundred year old, thousands years old concept such as trust, right, that is, everybody kind of, you know, [00:55:00] Quote, unquote, understands you, you come out and say, you know what, trust is dead or discipline is anti love, right?

[00:55:06] Courage is fake news, right? It's all nonsense, right? 

[00:55:10] Harris: You start saying these things, people like, wait, what the fuck? There's one reason I, I, the reason I like Trump is he doesn't sugarcoat shit. He doesn't sugarcoat shit. He says what's on his mind, whether it's rude, fucked up, uh, stuff like that. Uh. And he calls out fake [00:55:30] news networks fake news fake news your fake news.

[00:55:34] I'm not talking to you. You're fake news You 

[00:55:35] Eldar: like that part of 

[00:55:36] Harris: my phone? Yeah, I like that part of him because he doesn't sugarcoat shit. Mm hmm, 

[00:55:40] Eldar: and 

[00:55:40] Harris: a lot of times You used to sugarcoat stuff for your mom And she liked a part of you. Well, I mean, you know You know, if I come out and say something, my mom would be like, that sounds very, very rude.

[00:55:54] What you just said, I'm just saying how it is. And it's one of the things I'm doing now. Yeah. [00:56:00] Like, you know, 

[00:56:00] Toliy: I think it's completely fine, but it's very difficult, especially in like a parent scenario. Yeah. Like if you don't have the ability to properly teach, teach your kids, you should let go of them and give them the opportunity to get proper education.

[00:56:17] I, yeah, but you said a very paradoxical thing. I 

[00:56:19] Harris: have had stuff to my mother, you know, like, you know, that's not how this works. Yeah. And my aunt will come on the phone like, you need to apologize. That was very rude how that [00:56:30] came out. Uh, audacity. And I'm like, okay, I am sorry it came out that way, you know?

[00:56:37] Mm-hmm . Talk nice to me, bitch , you know, she's like, I'm like, okay, let's just get off the phone now and 

[00:56:47] Eldar: well, that's it. 

[00:56:48] Harris: Go all separate 

[00:56:48] Eldar: ways. 

[00:56:48] Harris: Yeah. I'm not going to apologize for speaking my truth, I guess. 

[00:56:54] Yeah, we're in a free country after all. 

[00:56:56] Harris: Well, [00:57:00] technically free, I guess. 

[00:57:02] You can't do whatever the fuck you want.

[00:57:09] But yeah, 

[00:57:11] Harris: I evolve and I guess some people are left into dust. 

[00:57:16] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:57:19] Harris: it's a natural phenomenon. It's not that I'm not going to have a relationship with them, but yeah. 

[00:57:23] Eldar: But we're going to know where to sit them when we, when the grownups eat, we know where the kids table is. [00:57:30] Well, 

[00:57:32] Toliy: isn't that true? You're being offensive, man.

[00:57:35] Eldar: Yeah. You're being offensive. I'm not being sensitive to their needs. No, man. But, you know, Tony says they should be shoe shiners, dude. They all should be shoe shiners.

[00:57:48] Harris: When I become president, we're gonna make everything right. I like it. There's not gonna be any news networks, okay? This is gonna be like, uh, Russia shit. You understand that? We're gonna come on [00:58:00] the TV, and it's gonna interrupt your fucking TV shows. Yes. We interrupt this message with the message from the president.

[00:58:06] Eldar: That's right. All right. Are you gonna sit there you get knowledge? What do you like it or not? 

[00:58:10] Harris: It's gonna be on every station interrupt fucking Fox interrupt Here I am bitch listen up yes

[00:58:22] Jesus Christ on a motorbike We're getting away with the news networks, man 

[00:58:27] Eldar: Yeah. No. I mean, especially the ones that we have [00:58:30] now, it's just embarrassing. Some people have to get fired at the least. Well, 

[00:58:34] Harris: there's going to be 

[00:58:34] no CNN. Okay. Yeah. By that time, definitely. It's going to be 

[00:58:37] Harris: elderism TV. That's right.

[00:58:39] This is true. It's going to pop up with, uh, this message is from elderism. 

[00:58:46] Eldar: From the, from the, what's his name? The Church of Alderism. It has to be like even higher. It has to be like the space, like it has to be a different planet. You know what I mean? We're like, all right, people. The Alderism 

[00:58:59] Harris: [00:59:00] royal family.

[00:59:00] Yeah. 

[00:59:01] Eldar: Now we're going to talk down to you guys. 

[00:59:06] Harris: Listen up. This country has been going to shit for way too long. Listen up. And this is how we're going to run shit. 

[00:59:12] Eldar: So natural order survival of the fittest. Like you said earlier, right? 

[00:59:19] Toliy: Yeah. Yes. I mean, so like circle back to where, to where we started. Um, it's like.

[00:59:27] Having fun at other people's expense. [00:59:30] Um, I think it's, yeah, like it's, it's in the moment reward for like knowing what you're saying and understanding it on, on whatever topic it is, having the ability to have 

[00:59:42] Eldar: fun with 

[00:59:42] Toliy: it at, at, yeah, at that moment. And then you have the ability to have fun with it and then try to raise awareness to someone else that is not willing to spend their humble tokens.

[00:59:58] Yeah. You know. Humble tokens. That's a good [01:00:00] one.

[01:00:03] So everything is where it's supposed to be, Mike? It always is. It always is. 

[01:00:10] Mike: Yeah, I think, um, the conversation had me think about this expression. It's a very popular one. Maybe it's very old. I don't know, but. That's going to be lame. 

[01:00:19] Harris: Yeah. I'm not sugarcoating shit, bro. Nah, I'm not going to say it. I'm not sugarcoating shit.

[01:00:23] Yeah. 

[01:00:24] Mike: No, it's um, don't shoot the messenger. Yeah. You know? Uh huh. I think a lot of, listen, this might be [01:00:30] above even your pay grade, so just try to listen in. Don't shoot the message, bro. Come on bro. 

[01:00:34] Harris: That's, you better have a good explanation. Why you as fucking, that's the lamest fucking 

[01:00:38] Mike: Yeah. A lot of times, right?

[01:00:40] When mm-hmm . People are mad with the truth. Yeah. They wanna shoot the messenger. Yeah. The best has nothing to do with it, but the messengers just living the message. I'm not, the messenger is just saying the truth. Yeah. I don't own the truth. Yeah. I didn't make it up. I didn't, you know, create it. It exists outside of me.

[01:00:58] Yeah. You know, and I think the problem is a lot [01:01:00] of times the person has a hard time hearing that message from the messenger. Okay. So let's segment to that. Yeah. Well, 

[01:01:06] Toliy: one, one, one thing I wanted to add to what Mike was saying is that there's, um, a very common and maybe like different people have different, um, opinions at like, um, of this line.

[01:01:19] And we hear it always in all kinds of things. There's a line that goes like the truth hurts. Yeah. Yeah. [01:01:30] Right. Yeah. The truth hurts. And, um, different people have different opinions as to whether it hurts or not. Right. But I think this will always remain, um, a fact that if you're an individual that the truth hurts, you've got something wrong because it's not supposed to hurt.

[01:01:51] It's not designed to, to hurt. So if, if, if the truth for you hurts, if it feels painful. Um, then you should [01:02:00] examine, um, like your stances, your stances or whatever that thing is where it feels painful because the truth is just the truth. It's not supposed to be good or bad. Right. Um, I, I would say that it probably has more positive intent, um, intrinsically, 

[01:02:20] Eldar: right?

[01:02:20] Intrinsically. Yeah. 

[01:02:21] Toliy: But if you have a negative thing about it, then you have, you're guaranteed to have something wrong because you're experiencing pain. [01:02:30] From something that is true and if that's the case, then you, you definitely have something wrong 

[01:02:36] Toliy (2): there. 

[01:02:37] Toliy: Okay. Cause it's not supposed to feel that way.

[01:02:39] It's supposed to feel like in like an organic way with like, like, like. Like, does it hurt to like, um, like the truth that like, yeah, like you need to breathe to like live, is that like a painful reality for you to accept, you know, from like probably, you know, 99. like, no, it's not right. Like that is just [01:03:00] the truth.

[01:03:00] And like, you're just like, okay, like I'm going to participate in this, right. I'm going to breathe. It is what it is. And like, this is a requirement to, to stay alive. Right. 

[01:03:09] Eldar: So why, so why then, um, why is there has to be a messenger for the ego and pride? Why, why does the Messenger have to, you know, don't shoot the messenger, but why does the Messenger get shot?

[01:03:22] No, because can't, 

[01:03:24] Mike: ego doesn't like it. 

[01:03:25] Eldar: Well, okay, what part of ego doesn't like it that, um, it becomes almost a social [01:03:30] factor, right? Like, you know, if you know Forest 

[01:03:32] mm-hmm . 

[01:03:33] Eldar: I mean, you got stranded or whatever for one, one reason or another, right? Mm-hmm . And. You, let's just say you have, right, like you have Harris's perception that rattlesnakes do fucking sting you by, you know, through their tail.

[01:03:47] Oh, 

[01:03:47] Harris: fuck you, man. 

[01:03:48] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? Let's just say you do have that, right? Um, and it happens to be that you are stranded and you need to eat, [01:04:00] right? You need to eat something. And the only thing that comes around once in a while is this fucking rattlesnake. Mm hmm. Your mom. Or that.

[01:04:08] Right. You need to eat this rattlesnake, right? But you wanted an impression that the tail is going to get you, you know what I mean? So like, you know, you stick your hand towards the mouth, you know what I mean? And you 

[01:04:20] get bit. 

[01:04:20] Eldar: Yeah. You know what I mean? Like you get bit. Right. Now, where does, where is this arrogance or the pride or ego, right, or the [01:04:30] wrongdoing or wrong perception has to fall on because there's nobody else is here, right?

[01:04:35] There's no one in the vicinity except your perception of the reality of what just transpired. You were always under the impression that you gotta like avoid the tail, but you stuck your hand in the mouth, you got bit, right? Let's just say you don't die, right? But you got bit and you're like, what the fuck?

[01:04:49] You know what I mean? Like, we're like, there's no social factor here. There's no person to say like, ah, it's your fault motherfucker. Or do you go back into a memory and say, my mom told me about the rattle. 

[01:04:59] Mike: You go back into your [01:05:00] memory. Yeah. I mean, like 

[01:05:01] Eldar: you have to get a scapegoat. 

[01:05:03] Toliy: That no, no. But like, if you have enough time to like, feel that, like, yo, something's out, like some, something is hurting now.

[01:05:11] And I'm like, in the process of dying. Like, well, no, I'm just saying, he's not dying. You just got bit. It just hurts. And then like, he moves 

[01:05:18] Eldar: on, obviously, you know? Oh, okay. You know what I mean? He's upset with what happened, obviously, transpired, but who does he get upset at? The snake? Or his perception of [01:05:30] the fact that the snake wasn't supposed to bite from the mouth, but supposed to bite from the tail?

[01:05:35] His belief, I think, of uh, or maybe both. Does he get mad at himself? Well, no. 

[01:05:40] Toliy: You would need to have Um, um, the ability to, um, to own blame. Okay. But if you don't have the ability to own blame, then there's like, there's no growth from any of these kinds of 

[01:05:56] Eldar: scenarios. There you go. He goes, he goes back to the same thing.

[01:05:58] You have to write, [01:06:00] get to a point where. When Harris talks nonsense and says shit to Toley and Toley calls him out. First time he called him out, he's like, Toley, fuck you, you're a jerk. Second time Toley calls him out, he's like, Toley's a strict man, you know what I mean? Third time, Toley calls him out, adds some punishments, right?

[01:06:16] Like, oh, you can't come to the UFC, you can't eat with us, or whatever it is he adds, right? Sooner or later, he's asked to almost say to himself, like, wait, I'm the liar. I keep lying to totally and totally just bouncing my lying off of himself [01:06:30] and administering punishment because totally doesn't want to be disrespected anymore with his lies.

[01:06:34] Right. 

[01:06:34] Harris: Oh, 

[01:06:34] Eldar: man, please. Oh, fuck you, man. And all that shit. Fuck you, man. It happens. It does, but after a while, right, after a while, you can't continue to protect an image that you're, you're some kind of good guy that you care for friendship or why not? You're an honest person, right? Sooner or later, you're like, what the fuck?

[01:06:53] I am a liar. Like, I keep saying this until I keep hurting. Why can't you continue to do that? No, because no, after maybe first time, second [01:07:00] time, third time, I think there's going to be a point where you like, oh shit, I need to go through the process of humbling. Like totally just saying, yeah, except. Right ownership of wrongdoing or lying or whatever it is and take it on the chin Like I gotta take the punishment of having to lose a hundred bucks I have done that.

[01:07:18] I know and i'm just making an example here that it's sooner or later, right? But it sounds 

[01:07:23] Toliy: like by doing that you're being awfully mean 

[01:07:26] Eldar: but the thing is again, i'm not sure how long [01:07:30] uh, An untrue statement such as that Um, has, can have power over you. 

[01:07:36] Mike: Yeah. But I think the thing that's playing, uh, here in this was example is the, is like, we don't know how many times it's going to take for him to learn about accountability.

[01:07:47] Right. That's like his life path and his life kind of, or whoever's, you know, kind of like, uh, that's their journey. Right. Yeah. Until they, until they. Like, there's no, like, specific number for anybody that at least [01:08:00] we don't know in advance. Well, no, no, no, no, no. 

[01:08:01] Eldar: That's the thing. I think that we can become scientific about this process.

[01:08:06] I think it's still, the process is not, I think, universal to be able to blanket it to everybody, every single person in this world. But I think that we can get scientific with very specific individuals, right? Based on knowing their pain pattern and what they can and cannot withstand. For Harris, for example, who's a little bit tight on money right now or whatever, Uh, next time you tell me you coming at eight.

[01:08:27] 8. 01, you owe me [01:08:30] 500. 

[01:08:30] Harris: Oh, God damn, bro. I'm already in debt, man. 

[01:08:34] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? You see that? You see that reaction? It's like chopping off your hand. If you steal something, it's like, oh shit, I don't want to lose my hand. So quickly, right? You understand the pain threshold of each individual. So you can administer the very specific rules of engagement.

[01:08:49] Therefore, they'll start understanding and learning like, okay. Okay, like, uh, I'm not going to be the bullshitter who's going to say I'm going to be here, ain't on a dot. Totally. I might [01:09:00] or might not be here at eight. I'm going to try my best. However, please don't take me for uh, Don't don't don't hold me accountable if I don't right the change pattern of behavior and speech pattern right is going to start changing and shifting in accordance to How much pain you want to endure on the back end?

[01:09:18] Mike: Yeah, but we don't know how much the threshold of that person is. Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm explaining to 

[01:09:23] Eldar: you that I think we can, we can find out. 

[01:09:24] Toliy: Yeah, but, but, but, but it's also why you, you, you need a consistent [01:09:30] immovable force wall that, that, that stands there and that has like the fortitude to Pay attention always in enough times, right?

[01:09:39] That the, the other force usually is a very movable and fluid one. Yeah. Right. So it stands no chance against an immovable force. That's going to stand there. Right. And you're not passing this gate. Right. That that's all I think it has by jumping over 

[01:09:56] Eldar: this wall. 

[01:09:56] Toliy: Yeah, you know 

[01:09:59] Harris: [01:10:00] jesus christ on a motorbike You have no idea who that's from.

[01:10:05] Eldar: Yeah. Well now it's ours. So tell that motherfucker to uh, Yeah, it's dead for him and never use it again. It's my fucking saying going forward. Yeah That's very interesting. So, yeah, I do think that we can become scientific sometimes case by case, based on understanding who the person is, um, suffering from and what he's scared of, right?

[01:10:25] Some pain thresholds and stuff like that. So then we can start maneuvering, [01:10:30] um, in such a way where it's like we can cut to the chase almost. You can't find out and then you'll know how to maneuver in such a way where you, it's almost becomes like you learned a shortcut to that specific individual to get to the point of what his attention span, you learn how to get into the attention, constantly challenging and learning what takes him or what doesn't take him.

[01:10:52] Harris: Yeah, he like ticking me. 

[01:10:55] Tickling you, yes. What? Tickling your butt. 

[01:10:58] Harris: What the hell? Hell no. [01:11:00] I knew you went to the fucking ditty party, bro. Come 

[01:11:03] Eldar: over here and sit on Santa's lap. 

[01:11:05] Harris: You dick fuck. 

[01:11:07] Eldar: Yeah, so, okay. There's an equation, Harris, to your madness. 

[01:11:16] Mike: Do you think there's an equation for 

[01:11:17] Eldar: all things? Yeah, well, I do think so.

[01:11:20] I do think so. I think everybody has, that's why it's interesting. That's why it's interesting, but usually it's, it's, it's like totally says, it's like, uh, It's a, [01:11:30] it's the same door, but a different outfit. You're coming through the same door, wearing a different outfit, thinking that people are not going to like, get it or see it for what it is.

[01:11:40] And that's what's happening through the people that came through, through these doors. It's the same kind of, same kind of ploy. You know what I mean? Got, you know, 

[01:11:51] Harris: they didn't make it through the process and now they're in the ground, right? 

[01:11:55] Eldar: I don't know. I mean, they're doing their thing. Like Toli said, maybe playing out their own [01:12:00] perceptions of reality and, 

[01:12:02] you know.

[01:12:03] Mike: What were you going to say, Mike? I was saying that do you think there is a way to find the process to bring accountability to the person? 

[01:12:08] Eldar: Oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. No, where the person brings the accountability to themselves and starts to learn of what Toli was talking about. 

[01:12:16] Toliy: Yeah, but I think by, by, by being that immovable force, the person will continue to run like, uh, in, in, into the same wall over and over again.

[01:12:27] And then I feel like they're going to be, [01:12:30] um, like if they have that kind of consistent wall. They're going to, um, put themselves in a position. I, um, I think to, uh, take accountability, but I think for most people they run into a very Like flexible wall and like a very well No I also I 

[01:12:48] Eldar: also think that the person who's creating the wall has to have a level of appeal For that individual to stick around long enough.

[01:12:56] Yeah, so to be like I want to keep raising my hand But like oh, there's a wall [01:13:00] but I like I like him. I like his watch. I like his suit 

[01:13:04] Toliy: It, it, yeah. Yeah. It, there has to be, you have admire the person wall. Yeah. It, it's, it's, um, it's having the wall, but you need to be put in positions where you can raise it up in a consistent like fashion.

[01:13:15] Mm-hmm. Eventually it's gonna like be a, a, uh, breaking point. But I think for all people it's different. And some people walk away 

[01:13:25] Harris: the wall in the wrong fucking terms. Okay. You break down a piece each time, [01:13:30] not raise it up like a fucking dumb ass man. That's right. 

[01:13:32] Mike: I don't think it's, yeah. Maybe, um. It's not necessarily that it's going to happen in this lifetime.

[01:13:40] Eldar: Not for all. Yeah. I mean, plenty of people that, you know, suffer and suffer for a very long time and only like, you know, just kind of perish. What the fuck, man? Perish. Perish with, you know. 

[01:13:53] Harris: Just drop dead, right? Paris. 

[01:13:55] Eldar: Yeah. For example, that old man, right? That came out and like, would yell at me, for example, a [01:14:00] while ago.

[01:14:01] Right. I mean, he was on his last leg, you 

[01:14:04] Mike: know, he had a gimpy leg, old 

[01:14:08] Eldar: man, this one old man. I was walking the dog archer. Right. And, um, it's a, it's like a, an accounting firm or a law firm, right. Office building or whatever. And this old guy who works there, who was one of the accountants or lawyers, right.

[01:14:22] Runs out. Runs out, Archie was pooping and I'm picking it up with, with, you know, with the bag. He runs out and goes, [01:14:30] Yo, get the fuck, get this fucking dog off the fucking thing, go across the street, go shit over there, you know? He said this to me. I'll tell you what I said, but you have to be a patron subscriber.

[01:14:43] Okay, that's where you get that. No What I'm saying is that that guy and then Cove it happened right and that guy died. Oh shit. Yeah from Kovat apparently So he died right but like if he was that old Right. [01:15:00] And he had that type of energy inside of him, that type of attitude or, you know, personality that he had about him to be this old, to come out and yell on top of his lungs because somebody, somebody's dog is pooping and I'm picking it up and it's not like I'm shitting on his lawn or his front door and then leaving the shit there.

[01:15:16] Right. And he's stepping on it or something like that. Right. I'm doing the right thing. Right. For someone to do that and then pass away, right. This is it. This is an example of like, okay, well, not this life. That, 

[01:15:29] Toliy: [01:15:30] that, that musty environment has been growing in that person's, like, inner self, right, for a very long, long time.

[01:15:37] Yeah. And then, yeah, they just 

[01:15:39] Harris: died with it. You and the word musty, you sick son of a bitch. Yeah, thank you for musty. Yeah, I still 

[01:15:43] Eldar: work with you, close quarters, so you're always musty. Oh, fuck yeah, bro, I am musty. 

[01:15:48] Harris: You smell like mothballs, dude. And cat piss. Cat piss and mothballs. Wait, why did you throw away your jacket?

[01:15:54] Because the cat pissed on it. Okay, that's it, man. Oh, fuck you, man. I can't help that the house [01:16:00] smells like mothballs, man. Where was 

[01:16:02] Mike: the jacket laying? Because obviously it wasn't hanging. Inside the litter box. It was hanging on the 

[01:16:06] Harris: back of a chair, so 

[01:16:09] Mike: How does the cat piss? She 

[01:16:10] Eldar: likes pissing 

[01:16:11] Harris: on top of a chair.

[01:16:13] Eldar: How did he piss on the table? He whipped out his dick and pissed all over the table. He has a cock? 

[01:16:18] Harris: No, he has a nine iron. A piece of the jacket would lay on the floor, man. Okay, so you didn't hang up 

[01:16:24] Mike: the jacket where it belonged and then it got pissed on. Of course. Sounds like a regular pisst. Same thing in 

[01:16:28] Toliy: here, when he walks in there.

[01:16:29] [01:16:30] He doesn't hang up his jacket. He throws his shit. 

[01:16:33] Mike: No, it's 

[01:16:33] Toliy: not on the floor, bro. It's on the back of the chair. Plenty of times I saw him run over his jacket. But to be 

[01:16:39] Eldar: fair, guys, in his defense, he did, when he did come here, he did say that he's a piss pig. Oh, fuck 

[01:16:45] Harris: you. Fuck you, man. Take that back now? No, I can't help that my house smells like moth balls, man.

[01:16:52] What the hell do you want me to do if I'm the bitch? Yeah. 

[01:16:56] Eldar: Yeah. So, what are we saying? Your mom. [01:17:00] Yes. What are we saying there? What are we saying? 

[01:17:03] Mike: What are we saying, guys? We never say anything, I'll be honest. That's what somebody who has an oppression that we are not saying anything. But I also feel like I feel it that way, but not in like a bad way.

[01:17:12] I feel like Um, in a good way, . It's like a, it's like a, this 

[01:17:18] Toliy: is the truth. That, that is the reality of it. Yeah. 

[01:17:20] Mike: We're actually not saying anything because No. Mm-hmm . Because what we're saying, it's like, I don't know how to explain it, but maybe totally can, but, and it's feel if we're on [01:17:30] the same page, you guys, 

[01:17:31] Toliy: you've seen the Harry Potter, uh, movies, right?

[01:17:33] Yeah. We not in the same detail. Okay. Is gonna be a very good, uh, if you remember it, uh, an um, analogy. Do you remember the. The the Goblet of Fire. I think it was. Oh, come on. 

[01:17:46] Eldar: No, I don't remember like 

[01:17:47] Toliy: that. What? 

[01:17:48] Eldar: Not to this detail man. 

[01:17:50] Toliy: No The movie when like all the clans come together And they're gonna go through like the maze and then like all the people come and then Harry's name [01:18:00] somehow Gets chosen even though he's underage for it to like participate in this event.

[01:18:04] Okay. Okay, right? Yeah Do you, do you remember this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do remember this. Right? Like the, the Victor guy, Krupp or whatever it comes like the girlies. 

[01:18:12] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:18:12] Toliy: Right. All that. There's, um, different times when they're, they're going to be facing particular, um, challenges and they need to figure out what the clue is so they could prepare for it.

[01:18:23] Eldar (2): Right? 

[01:18:25] Toliy: And do you remember that scene where Harry has this like golden [01:18:30] egg like thing and he needs to go in Myrtle's bath and he puts it underwater and what does he hear? 

[01:18:37] Eldar: He hears stuff 

[01:18:38] Toliy: Well, no, he, he opens no for him. Yeah. He, he opens the egg while sitting in it. Mm-hmm . And if you remember the scene when once he opens it, it makes like crazy screeching sound, screeching sound That's right.

[01:18:48] And crazy. Like, like you can't like bear it. Mm-hmm . Like, it's like so loud. Mm-hmm . And so screeching and like, like terrible. Yeah. Okay. Right. And then Myrtle says, why don't you go [01:19:00] under water and open it? Mm-hmm . He goes under water, opens that same egg, and then. It's a very harmonious, like a nice song and melody, and he listens to what it has to say so that I can give him the clue.

[01:19:14] Okay. Right? So I think that when it comes to what's happening here, to some people it's screeches, to other people it's a harmonious, like, melody. 

[01:19:24] Mike: And that's completely, that didn't help. No, I wasn't. Yeah. That didn't help Mike at all. No, 

[01:19:28] Eldar: I'm saying where you just [01:19:30] said that we actually are saying something, especially if you're tuned in, I think we say it a lot.

[01:19:34] Mike: My intention of saying it is, is paradoxical. We're not saying anything, but we're actually saying everything. And that's the way I mean it what you just 

[01:19:42] Harris: said press it man 

[01:19:44] Mike: It's you can't understand it harris. This is not for this guy 

[01:19:49] Soundpad: What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard oh fuck you no point Were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational [01:20:00] thought?

[01:20:00] Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. Payback's a bitch, ain't it? 

[01:20:06] Mike: Yeah. My thing was paradoxical in which I think a lot of almost everything that we, all the conclusions about the truth that we come to is that it actually is all paradoxical. So that's why I said, we actually say nothing because.

[01:20:22] We say everything 

[01:20:23] Eldar (2): you 

[01:20:24] Mike: know, that's that's the paradox like we're constantly coming to the same point and we like [01:20:30] But 

[01:20:30] Toliy: but but but don't you think that it's like it's at different moments nothing to some and everything to others. Yeah Yeah, that's exactly how I feel. Yeah, that's what I was trying to like.

[01:20:41] Yeah. No, I understand your point. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and also not only is it Yeah, no, there's actually three different categories, nothing, something, and then offensive. Yeah, yeah, or everything. Right? So, so it's like one of those three outcomes, um, happens, which I think is completely fine. [01:21:00] And that's how it's supposed to be.

[01:21:03] Mm hmm. 

[01:21:06] Toliy: Like, it makes perfect sense. There, there's no way like, uh It sounds like your mom was part 

[01:21:10] Eldar: of a program, dude. Yeah, she's in the Matrix. She's in the Matrix, dude. Oh, 

[01:21:14] Harris: I didn't watch the movie, The Matrix. No, we didn't watch that. You didn't watch that? One mandatory 

[01:21:19] Toliy: one that I have for Harris is Into the Wild.

[01:21:22] A mandatory one. What is 

[01:21:23] Harris: wrong with you, dude? That's a good movie. They gave you homework, dude. 

[01:21:25] Toliy: A mandatory one. I'm not watching 

[01:21:26] Harris: that. It's probably a shitty movie. 

[01:21:29] Mike: You can watch [01:21:30] it with Crispy, like, uh, in bed tonight if you want. Yeah, while you guys hold, hold, hold hands and dip 

[01:21:34] Toliy: a nacho cheese. 

[01:21:36] Mike: What the hell is wrong with you, man?

[01:21:37] Nutella strawberries over each other? What the hell? Oh my goodness. Fuck you, man. 

[01:21:40] Toliy: Right off 

[01:21:41] Mike: the leg. Fuck you, man. Crispy got some hairy legs, right? 

[01:21:44] Harris: What is wrong with you, bro? Oh, what the? No, you have him shaving? Fuck you. 

[01:21:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:21:49] Harris: See this right here, bro? Yeah. This is gonna go up your ass, man. Oh no, these are too good to go up there.

[01:21:56] Yeah.

[01:21:59] You don't want a 

[01:21:59] Mike: [01:22:00] chocolate on the tip of the sneak? 

[01:22:01] Harris: Valentino's? No. 

[01:22:03] Mike: Alright, fair enough, man. 

[01:22:05] Harris: Uh, I would probably borrow, uh, Aldara's shitty ass hike a juice. 

[01:22:13] Eldar: Alright, well. Do we have anything else to say around this? Because I think that, um, I mean, at least to me, uh, a lot was said, a lot, a lot of it was said to make sense or to solidify yet again, my perception or understanding of what I was understanding, you know, um, 

[01:22:29] Toliy: I, I [01:22:30] just feel overall that if you feel that someone's having fun at your own expense or you see it happening to someone else, like to me, the reality of this situation is that like, If you can identify that for yourself, they're like, this is what's happening.

[01:22:46] You absolutely have the most to gain in the scenario. You're saying it 

[01:22:50] Eldar: so confidently, totally. But like, I'm not sure if the person that, that is going to listen to this, right. Or at least who doesn't have 

[01:22:56] Mike: a 

[01:22:56] Eldar: person while you're underwater and he's in the air. Yes. Like this is [01:23:00] what you're trying to do.

[01:23:00] Exactly what you're saying. Yeah. Like I agree a hundred percent that, that, that at least individual, right. Especially who's not thick skinned or at least has not been exposed to this type of a treatment. Right. Um, but what? Yeah, what are you talking 

[01:23:15] Toliy: about? And then I feel like all of this is going to be like in, in, in a kind of way, like if you're not, if you're not the, the, the reality, if you're not subjected towards like, A rigorous program like this.

[01:23:29] [01:23:30] Yeah. With an ongoing like fucking, like persistent fly swatter. It's bullshit. Yeah. Right. Like yeah. Like you, you pretty much have to use like trust to like, to like, uh, no. Impossible. I, I don't even know. To like, try to there, listen to something. There's nothing. Yeah. There's probably nothing. Yeah. It's either if 

[01:23:47] Mike: it's either the truth or no or nothing.

[01:23:49] Yeah. Like, but you, what's not a way to do it. You can't bullshit your way into this or pass this. No, no. 

[01:23:53] Toliy: Yeah. But like, you need to. Rigorous, like a, like fly swatter fucking program. [01:24:00] Yeah. It's going to fucking like beat you with a cucumber. You know, 

[01:24:04] Eldar: I keep coming back to the fact that I remember if you remember Kadampa Mike, right.

[01:24:08] When we went and then we saw all the, all the, what are they called? God, gods, right. They're gods or whatever. They call them deities, deities, right. Deities. Right. Yeah. And I always wondered, and I actually asked the question, right. From one of the people that works there or whatever. I was like, yo, why do they look so ugly?

[01:24:23] Mike: Right. So scary. 

[01:24:24] Eldar: So scary with the swords or like crazy armor, crazy faces and stuff like that. Right. [01:24:30] And it's what, what, what we're discussing here. Right. The phenomenon, right. Of the individual who is conflicted, right. Who has ignorance and ego and pride on their side, right. Who's, um, conflicted. Like I said, right.

[01:24:47] Uh, comes across an individual who has some truth or says something, how it is. Right. They're going to see those characters. Right? Yeah, because that's the ego. It's almost a reflection. 

[01:24:58] Mike: Well, I don't think that person has the truth or [01:25:00] has some knowledge. I think it's the, the person is a mirror as a mirror.

[01:25:03] Yes. And that's exactly what's happening. So you're not actually, the problem is to see that y'all, I'm not mad at this specific person. Yeah. I'm mad at what that person is showing me about myself, but that's like, you got to dive into that to fucking understand that 

[01:25:16] Toliy: you need to. Pay the humble token that it's required of the scenario magic show.

[01:25:21] Well, it is completely okay, completely okay for you to acknowledge your own ignorance. Like [01:25:30] that's completely fine, but the problem stems him in the person not being fine with acknowledging that. Yeah, like that that's where to me like everything stems and then it comes down to like the arrogance the doubling down on it the extreme defensiveness to but it's still case by case 

[01:25:48] Eldar: Wouldn't you say that it's still case by case on each specific scenario that that person is ignorant or prideful about that?

[01:25:54] Like, you know, maybe he might be able to give you the humble token on something else Right. That's something [01:26:00] evolves around some thing that they're not so attached to. Right. Like, of course, versus something. Yeah. 

[01:26:05] Toliy: No, no. But the same thing happens over again, like over and over again, amongst, like, pretty much everyone on the situations where, like, it's always on things that they, like, suffer in and that they're, they're like, have some, like, Like they almost have some, like, like they kind of show you some BS inclination that they don't want to suffer from it actually.

[01:26:28] Right. But they always [01:26:30] prove that they're not willing to do 

[01:26:31] Eldar: anything to 

[01:26:32] Toliy: what it takes to actually get out again, put them in that vulnerable scenario and, um, um, um, twofold one, admit that they, um, are actually dumb and stupid and be all right with that, and then two, like, Um, the, the, the, um, second thing is the, um, actual belief that they don't [01:27:00] actually know what to do.

[01:27:01] Like those are the two things to me that are like hand in hand that are requirements, but people are not willing to, to go there. And they prove that through their actions that they would much rather remain, um, ignorant and like, you know, Suffer than actually put themselves in this vulnerable scenario.

[01:27:23] And that's always proved, you know, time, time and time again, 

[01:27:28] would you say sucks for them? I don't even, [01:27:30] 

[01:27:32] Toliy: I don't even know what to say. 

[01:27:34] Mike: I think it's, uh, yeah, it always, to me, a lot of the stuff always comes like, especially this topic and humility around humility and accountability. 

[01:27:42] To 

[01:27:42] Mike: me, it's. Like that's, to me, I think that's the gate, right?

[01:27:46] That's the first door you have to pass through and then everything else opens up. If you, and on all subjects, right. And I think like, you can't tell a person or teach a person, how do you become humble? Right. 

[01:27:57] Eldar (2): Yeah. 

[01:27:57] Mike: Like you can't say, well, I'll do this and that. [01:28:00] And that's where, like, I always keep coming to like, it's a survival of the fittest.

[01:28:05] But, and, um, but with that said, I do think you can help that person. By always speaking the truth and maybe one time they'll hear you, you know, so, 

[01:28:18] Eldar: yeah, but that's like, uh, you know, like you're playing a lot of here. So I don't like it always speaking the truth. No, I think that like, based on what we're talking about, right.

[01:28:28] I think that the way to [01:28:30] not hope one day they'll hear you is to enjoy the process. Right. Well, like if you enjoying the process, then who gives a fuck if they hear you or not? Right. Like, it's like, you're still, you still being your true self. You're presenting your true self at all times now, whether or not they hear you on that, that always gives them 

[01:28:50] Toliy: the opportunity to hear you.

[01:28:51] Eldar: Yes. Always like, yeah. And if you don't take that opportunity, it's not on the individual who's constantly like, has this burden of, of [01:29:00] proof to always stand on truth. You know what I mean? For them to finally, you know, 

[01:29:04] Toliy: the, the, the, the, the simple scenario to me here is this having fun at someone else's expense.

[01:29:11] Is the ongoing education of being humble? Yeah, that that's what it is Yeah, and it's gonna go on for as long as you need to stay in that course up until you can yeah 

[01:29:21] Eldar: That's 

[01:29:21] Toliy: how 

[01:29:21] Eldar: we always find a new pinata. Yeah. Yeah Hey pinata, fuck you [01:29:30] Yeah, you can't you can't continue after that that's it that's enough.

[01:29:34] Yeah, fuck 

[01:29:35] you 

[01:29:35] Eldar: All right, harris give us some final thoughts on this man Totally said that you're the pinata right now happens to be you like, you know, you have some weight on you Which is, you know, you might be packing a lot of candy, a lot of good, right? Budo was fat, actually, so you might take pride in that.

[01:29:51] It was overweight. And he did have 

[01:29:52] Toliy: big tits, right? 

[01:29:54] Eldar: He did. 

[01:29:55] Harris: Yeah. Screw you, man. Huge 

[01:29:56] Toliy: knockers. 

[01:29:57] Harris: He began You shouldn't be talking, man. Tits [01:30:00] McGee over there, motherfucker. 

[01:30:02] Eldar: So give us some thoughts. Your final thoughts on the fact that look, um, sometimes it might feel bad for you or you might be, you know, like the, what is it?

[01:30:13] The brother, the joke. What is it? 

[01:30:15] Mike: The butt of the joke, the 

[01:30:16] Eldar: butt of the joke. Right. Um, but the truth of the matter is if you continue to be ignorant, if you continue to spew nonsense and you continue to stand and double down on it by being arrogant, prideful, right. And an egotistical prick, right. So then [01:30:30] individuals who are really paying attention will.

[01:30:33] Do their best at pay attention in such a way where they can have fun with it Because we're not gonna allow you to take over the ship like a pirate, right? We will give you the ship into the keys when you are actually are Deservant of it, right?

[01:30:53] Yes, it's a natural process. And then you're no longer the butt of the jokes, right? If you're not [01:31:00] behaving, like totally, if you're not behaving erratically or stupid and stuff like that, then that's it. Like the gig is up. Like there's no more, nothing to joke about, but if you continue to be ignorant, continue to be this way, then the joke's on you.

[01:31:12] Yeah. Thank you, Harris, for saying absolutely nothing. 

[01:31:17] Harris: Actually, I said some pretty good stuff on this podcast. 

[01:31:20] Eldar: You did. Yes. 

[01:31:21] Harris: Yeah. But he just asked you a fucking question and you're saying that he didn't ask anything. He made a fucking statement. 

[01:31:26] Yes, this is absolutely wrong [01:31:30] 

[01:31:30] Harris: No, that was your final thoughts, yeah, he asked my final thoughts, but then yes, how does it feel 

[01:31:34] Toliy: to be a fucking pinata?

[01:31:36] Yeah, you fucking pinata. Oh, fuck 

[01:31:38] Harris: you 

[01:31:38] You 

[01:31:40] Eldar: know, it's it's cool being a pinata. Yeah, man. It's absolutely awesome Hey, can you do me a favor and um, i'll give you 20 nano if you tell me exactly what it says on your shirt Without looking at it. 

[01:31:51] Toliy: Oh my god Oh my god, 

[01:31:53] Harris: no chance, please wait Reprogramming the subconscious in [01:32:00] progress.

[01:32:00] Eldar: You're almost there, you didn't win the money. It's not please wait, but it says please stand by. Oh fuck you, it's the same thing. It is the same thing, but you got the ball over the net. Please stand by. Reprogramming. Alright, 

[01:32:11] Harris: so that equals 20 nano. 

[01:32:13] Eldar: Alright, let's, 

[01:32:13] Harris: let's set off for time. 

[01:32:14] Eldar: I'll give a 

[01:32:15] Harris: five.

[01:32:15] Yeah, five, five. Okay, so five and five. No, no, no, just five. Five and five. Where'd you 

[01:32:19] Eldar: get 

[01:32:20] the shirt? It's a nice shirt. You made it custom made, man. 

[01:32:23] Harris: I like it. And you can buy this where? And you can buy this where? In China. 

[01:32:28] Eldar: Well, okay, fine. 

[01:32:29] Harris: [01:32:30] You can buy it off the merch. Oh, the merch, uh, 

[01:32:34] Eldar: What's his name off the merch?

[01:32:35] Uh, I don't know if there's a website. Me neither. No, there is no website, but yeah, you can buy it off the merch. If there is a website, you can buy it off the merch. He got a great one. Yeah. All right, I'll do it. Thank you, Harris. Mm hmm. I like to go. Nothing. Totally. 

[01:32:50] Toliy: Nothing. 

[01:32:50] Eldar: Nothing. Yeah. Thank you. This was great.

[01:32:53] Harris, thank you for giving us the blessing to continue to make fun of you and having fun at your expense. 

[01:32:57] Harris: Listen, man, it's a great time. [01:33:00] I'm ready for the comedy show. I like 

[01:33:02] Eldar: it.