154. Ego’s Last Stand: Revenge

What drives us to chase revenge—and does it ever truly satisfy?

In this electrifying episode, Mike, Toliy, and Eldar dive deep into the messy psychology of revenge, sparked by heartbreak, societal pressures, and the ego’s relentless need to prove itself. From breakup-fueled “glow-ups” to battling outdated norms, they unravel how the quest for vengeance often masks a refusal to face ourselves. Expect raw stories, unexpected detours—like rock climbing revelations—and a bold challenge: is revenge just a exhausting illusion we’re better off ditching? Tune in for a mind-bending ride that’s equal parts hilarious and profound.

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Chapters

• 0:43 Revenge After Breakups
• 1:46 Proving Them Wrong
• 3:47 Revenge in Relationships and Life
• 9:18 The Illusion of Self-Worth
• 14:23 Respecting the Laws of the Universe
• 21:14 Surface Level Desires
• 24:34 The Struggle with Societal Expectations
• 31:34 Proof and Ego: The Illusion of Success
• 33:17 Living Under Wrong Impressions
• 34:39 Mental Health and Cognitive Dissonance
• 36:42 The Consequences of Wrong Perceptions
• 39:47 The Futility of Revenge
• 43:12 The Journey of Self-Realization
• 45:35 The Role of Humility in Relationships
• 48:50 The Paradox of Running from Yourself
• 50:25 The Truth About Suffering and Growth
• 1:03:01 Final Thoughts on Revenge and Accountability

Transcript

[00:00:00] Mike: On this week's episode by actually chasing revenge, right? The chasing that you actually prove exactly what that person was thinking about thinking about you. You're proving them right, but I don't think a lot of people think 

[00:00:11] Toliy: about it that way One thing I think that's a huge misconception the people that are in the um revenge business.

[00:00:17] They're only doing it because they Actually feel whatever they're revenging that that person actually cares 

[00:00:24] Eldar: The world hypnotized your parents your parents hypnotize you And then your friends or peers, whoever hypnotized you to celebrities, hypnotize you is commercials, TV, everything hypnotized you. And then you come to realize that you don't even know who the fuck you are.

[00:00:43] All right, guys, on today's topic is revenge, a very specific one. Um, the one maybe a lot of people can relate to, right? It's the revenge or feelings of revenge, right? That come after breakups, right? A [00:01:00] lot of times, you know, um, when we are heartbroken, right? If the other person hurt us, and we actually feel this way, then we're hurt, right?

[00:01:07] We're on that side of the fence where someone broke up with us that we really loved or cared for whatever or esteemed very highly And they broke up with us. 

[00:01:15] Mm hmm, 

[00:01:16] Eldar: right and they gave us maybe some kind of reasons Maybe you weren't good enough. Maybe you weren't tall enough. We're even pretty enough 

[00:01:22] Mm hmm, 

[00:01:22] Eldar: maybe you didn't have enough money for them, 

[00:01:24] right?

[00:01:25] Eldar: You know, maybe you didn't you will you like something? Mm 

[00:01:27] hmm, 

[00:01:27] Eldar: you know That obviously feels a certain type of way. 

[00:01:31] Mm hmm 

[00:01:32] Eldar: You know, it hurts. It hurts to be able to not be able to be that person that you thought you needed to be in order to make the relationship right. Okay. Um, and what a lot of times we start feeling afterwards.

[00:01:46] I think you can relate to this, Mike, too, right? Um, We start feeling like, you know what, I'm going to prove that other person wrong, I'm going to become more successful, you know, I'm going to get better [00:02:00] hair, I'm going to get bigger tits, bigger ass, bigger dick, whatever it is that you're getting, you know, I'm going to get more stuff, more things, whatever, right, all those things that I, you know, that the person told me that I was lacking, or I didn't have, or that I needed, I'm going to get those things, and you know what, When I get all those things, I'm going to look down upon that person.

[00:02:24] Now they're going to see me. I'm not going to want them now. They look at me and I'm like, look at me now. It's like that song, right? Uh, Mike Jones back then. They didn't want me back then. They didn't want me. Now I'm hot. They're all on me. 

[00:02:37] Yeah. 

[00:02:37] Eldar: Right. And there's a reason for that song because, and the reason why that song was hot.

[00:02:42] Right. Because those lyrics. Actually resonated with a lot of people, especially those people like we're talking about after breakups, right? So I think a lot of people maybe get fueled by this type of revenge tour that they go on They become maybe [00:03:00] focus on work out of work. They focus on their gym They go to the gym and they start working out a lot to get their body, right?

[00:03:07] Like, you know, I fuck you bitch, you know, you didn't want me now. I'm gonna get jacked. 

[00:03:12] Mm 

[00:03:13] Eldar: hmm. You look pretty Get more money, get more this, get more that. And a lot of people, I think, fuel themselves with this type of revenge. Yeah, almost. Is it right? Is it wrong? 

[00:03:24] Mm hmm. 

[00:03:25] Eldar: Should we use that type of energy?

[00:03:26] Why does this, does this feeling come to us after that kind of breakup? Why? Why is it? Why is it there? Because a lot of people go through it, I think. I mean, I remember going through it too. You know what I mean? You want the short answer? 

[00:03:42] Toliy: But didn't even. I think it's like, um, like it's like a relationship base.

[00:03:46] I feel 

[00:03:46] Eldar: no, no, it's not. I'm just giving in a relationship terms, but I think that it goes to everything. Everybody who's doubting us, right? If we're in a relationship with our moms, our dads, our friends, right? Where we're like, I'm going to start a business. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do [00:04:00] that, you know?

[00:04:00] And they're like, you're stupid. You're not doing this. You're not doing that. They're doubting you. Right. They're constantly putting you down. So you, you know, you fuel yourself up with this like almost revenge. 

[00:04:11] Toliy: I have like a funny story around this. I ever told you. But maybe at that time you knew it was happening.

[00:04:18] Um, we were playing basketball at the rec back in the day. 

[00:04:22] Yeah. 

[00:04:24] Toliy: When I knew like we, we had our team, like we had our like squad, right? I don't know if you remember, there, there, there was, they didn't come often, but people from the basketball team that I, that I frequently did not make. Yes. They sometimes came.

[00:04:36] Yes. Remember Ryan? I do, I do. I remember those kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Turnt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, those people, right? Yeah. And when they came. And they're stepping on next, like, I almost, you know, like, Hey, like, first off, I definitely wanted to, to win extra because I wanted them to make a known that, yo, you may have some kind of like, you know, things going on there, but, but definitely not here.

[00:04:56] This is my house. Yes. Yes. First off. Right. And [00:05:00] like. I don't know if I ever told you like, yo, take it more seriously, or like, yo, we got to do extra or like whatnot. But I felt that like, I had to like, use the team to like 

[00:05:09] Eldar: Yeah. I never got that from you, which is good. Because then you would have been like, even more dirtier, you know what I mean?

[00:05:15] Mike: Because it was already That's where 

[00:05:16] Eldar: it started, where you 

[00:05:17] Mike: started 

[00:05:17] Eldar: yelling at me, probably. Yeah, but you, yes. He was already competitive. Yes, he was already competitive. But yeah, I would see how like I would probably want to throw the games at that point, you know Because I would see their attachment to it, you know, and it wasn't right attachment, you know, yeah 

[00:05:31] Toliy: So I definitely wanted them to know that like yo, like first off based on the performance that you're seeing Yeah, you might have to speak up someone being mistreated over there.

[00:05:39] Eldar: Oh, yeah Like 

[00:05:41] Toliy: like that because they'd be like, you know, like like he's doing much better here, you know Coach 

[00:05:45] Eldar: put him in put him in. Yeah. 

[00:05:47] Toliy: Yeah, right Um, and I definitely wanted to win extra because I wanted them to know that like yo Your spots are not deserved here. 

[00:05:55] Yeah. 

[00:05:56] Toliy: And you can clearly see by, by, by, by what's going on here.

[00:05:59] Yeah. You know? [00:06:00] Yeah. Um, but, but, but like, when, like, I, I, I, I think in general, in life, um, one thing, I think that's a huge misconception that people that are in the, um, revenge business 

[00:06:11] mm-hmm . 

[00:06:12] Toliy: Right? Um, uh, is that they're, they're only doing it 

[00:06:21] mm-hmm . 

[00:06:23] Toliy: Or, or like a huge, like, I don't know, 80% of it. Like they're, they're only doing it.

[00:06:27] Because they actually feel that the, that whatever they're revenging, that that person actually cares. Ah, interesting. And if they knew for a fact that that person actually doesn't care that same way, right? Which is why, like, if you ever watch like, uh, like, um, movies, right? When, like, revenge actually happens.

[00:06:48] Yeah. 

[00:06:49] Toliy: And people get to that point, it's almost like a low point. Everyone looks at you like, yo, man, like, what are you doing? 

[00:06:54] Yeah. Yeah, like 

[00:06:56] Toliy: you then become like the like once you get to where you think is now on top of the [00:07:00] world Yeah, and like in certain movies where that's poor. Yeah The family's Ronnie's like man, like what are you doing?

[00:07:06] You became a bad person? Yeah, like you became a bad person and thing but you feel that that person actually cares away more than they actually do About like your status or who you are how you're perceived 

[00:07:19] Eldar: like they care 

[00:07:19] Toliy: Yeah, your your dream moment is for you it's like for like I don't know for for him to walk out like the uh, I don't know the greek bar the greek club and like, uh, valet flicks him his ferrari key like, you know, and then like he like Puts his blazer on, like, you know, in the movie.

[00:07:35] Hi, Mr. Mr. Gki. You want ? Yes. Mr. Gki, you want us to bring your gold bars to your apartment? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No problem. We'll, we'll, we'll send and then write a news article about him. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Gki the most successful person. All, all, all of Ula know, because you want us to buy an article for 

[00:07:52] Mike: you in the newspaper,

[00:07:52] Yeah. We'll pay for it. He, he, he 

[00:07:54] Toliy: donate most mon money. Yeah. Um, fought in the war same day and then also [00:08:00] like did the biggest stock trade ever and then drove away home. Yeah. I think, um, like you, you have this like mystical, like moment, like in, in your mind, in your mind that you're attached to. Yes. So why do we have it?

[00:08:12] Why does that even be, be important? Uh, a really painful, really painful, um, feeling, especially for people that have not, um, tasted, uh, like a regular amount of early on, uh, success, right? Um, um, like when you get that feeling. Of like, like you feel that like someone views, views you in a, like, I don't know, like a bad like, like, yeah, like feels you're either like a loser or that like, um, they, they like try to minimize you may, may, maybe like intentionally or not intentionally, you have this feeling and then like that feeling like fuels a crazy, like a crazy adrenaline rush.

[00:08:57] That like you can now perform above your means [00:09:00] to prove somebody wrong for a period of time. I 

[00:09:03] Eldar: have a different theory on that, but Mike, go ahead. 

[00:09:05] Mike: Uh, I wanted to say that by actually chasing revenge, right? That chasing that, you actually prove exactly what that person was. Thinking about thinking about you, you're proving them, right?

[00:09:17] You're proving them, right? But I don't think a lot of people think about it that way because the reason that person I like I think my my thing is The reason the relationship didn't work out or where they don't work out Yeah, and this is I think universal is because the person does not love themselves.

[00:09:33] Yeah, 

[00:09:33] Mike: and they they allowed the relationship 

[00:09:35] Yeah, 

[00:09:35] Mike: like it's a relationship don't always have to work out. Yeah, but if you come out of it feeling Yeah. A bad about it. Yeah. It's because you disrespected yourself. Correct. Right? And that's where I was going to go. You didn't, you didn't love yourself. Yeah. So, if you didn't love yourself, you allowed that person to treat you in a certain way.

[00:09:51] Yeah. But if you did everything right, you have a clean record. You shouldn't feel bad about it. You should feel like, hey. Correct. This person's not my person. That's [00:10:00] right. We're not compatible. Uh. That's it. And that's it. You know, and then you move on with your life. That's right. Because you understand, hey.

[00:10:05] You don't have a guilty conscience. You don't have a guilty conscience. But you actually subconsciously or whatever is your guilty conscious is not about that person is actually by yourself because you didn't love yourself. 

[00:10:17] Yes. 

[00:10:17] Mike: And that's, that's the reason the relationship didn't work out. That's the relationship.

[00:10:21] That's the reason that you actually chasing his revenge. Yes. You trying to actually prove that person that you love yourself by doing it through revenge, which is never going to work. Yeah. You can't do the doing wrong. 

[00:10:32] Eldar: Don't make a right. I'm going to, I'm going to change your words about loving yourself.

[00:10:36] All right, loving themselves or whatever to, um, And the other thing that you use in a relationship, I'm going to change them to that person did all that they could to create an image of who they are, right? And they try to, as hard as possible, to hold on to that dream [00:11:00] or keep that dream and that image that they created for themselves and for the other person.

[00:11:04] It's an illusion, okay? And one day, the person wakes up from the illusion. They're like, wait. What the fuck is this? 

[00:11:14] Mm hmm. 

[00:11:16] Eldar: I don't see anything here. This is bullshit. 

[00:11:18] Mm hmm. 

[00:11:19] Eldar: What you're showing me is a malaka 

[00:11:20] Yeah, 

[00:11:21] Eldar: you know what I mean? And then what happens to you, right? You're like, wait, wait, wait, what the fuck?

[00:11:26] She doesn't want to be with me anymore. Why? Oh, I was doing this I was working on this fucking thing this illusion for so long so well, you know what I mean? I need to keep it together. Yeah, you know, she's like nope This is fake. I don't want it. 

[00:11:42] Yeah. 

[00:11:42] Eldar: Now what happens to you your ego and your pride 

[00:11:46] finished?

[00:11:47] Eldar: You're done. You're done So I think the revenge is born when the ego got its ass kicked Okay Ego only Like you said, [00:12:00] if you were in a relationship and you did the right thing and you knew yourself, right? Mm-hmm . And you stood behind what you believed, you didn't violate yourself. Mm-hmm . Then if it ha something happens, you are like, okay, it is what it is.

[00:12:11] It happened. True. I know I was my best self and I did what I could. 

[00:12:15] Toliy: Mm-hmm . You're saying that, um, revenge is the, the backup hard drive to the ego and the shit goes down. 

[00:12:24] Yes. 

[00:12:25] Eldar: Probably, yeah. 

[00:12:26] Toliy: Fucking ready. 

[00:12:27] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Right? So then, so then you start creating a new image. Right? Like you said. Now you have a new dream.

[00:12:34] Like, okay, cool. All right. How are we going to fucking get this, get her back? You know? I think that's the ego talking. 

[00:12:41] Mike: Yeah. Right? Well, because the person technically, they proved you wrong, but that's it. But. It's not you. It's an image that you created. That's right. But you're still defending it. 

[00:12:53] Eldar: Well, yeah, because, no, you, you brought in into this image that you created this illusion for so long.

[00:12:58] Yeah. You held on to it for so long, [00:13:00] that now when somebody's like, yo, nope, I don't want it. They become the enemy. 

[00:13:04] Yeah. 

[00:13:06] Eldar: And what do you want to do to the enemy? Crush them. Crush them. Crack them. Crack them. First crush them and then crack them. Yeah. You know? 

[00:13:16] Yeah. 

[00:13:18] Eldar: So, yeah, that's what I think it is. I think revenge is born.

[00:13:21] When your ego got kicked in the ass, right? No longer this tricks, these tricks, these magic tricks that you've been doing. They're not working anymore, right? That's why I think if you, like you said, you've lived, if you lived in accordance to truth, integrity, and you brought that. Into the relationship right into the relationship and one day the person wakes up and like I don't want it.

[00:13:43] Mm hmm 

[00:13:44] Eldar: Well, they cheat on you. 

[00:13:45] Mm hmm. 

[00:13:45] Eldar: You like bye. Mm hmm. You're crazy. 

[00:13:48] Mm hmm, 

[00:13:49] Eldar: right? That's how I feel like if Catherine was to walk out on me. Mm hmm. She crazy. 

[00:13:55] Mm hmm. Yeah, 

[00:13:56] Eldar: I don't need no trial I don't have to trust her. Mm 

[00:13:58] hmm. 

[00:13:59] Eldar: You know what I mean? [00:14:00] I know her number one. This will gives me peace inside I know her She wouldn't do it.

[00:14:04] Right? Number two, if she did, she's crazy and she's done. That's it. We don't see eye to eye anymore. Bye. Yeah. What's the point? You know what I'm saying? And I wouldn't feel bad because I know I did right by her. You know what I mean? So for this to turn out this way, it's like, this is crazy. 

[00:14:23] Mike: Yeah, you got to respect the law of the universe.

[00:14:26] Yeah, that applies to us individually as well. Like, yeah, whatever is coming to that person is that's what's coming to them. You have to respect that. Like, uh, I think we have a hard time with that too. We do. That's another topic. Yeah. But 

[00:14:39] Toliy: yeah, I feel that like when you respect the laws of the universe. I think that you gain like a certain like, um, um, immortality, like 

[00:14:48] Eldar: a piece 

[00:14:49] Toliy: of, a piece of you can no longer die now anymore.

[00:14:52] Eldar: Well, I have to write this one down, even though we just recorded it, but when you respect the laws [00:15:00] of the universe. You gain the level of Im immortality. 

[00:15:04] Yeah.

[00:15:11] Yeah, 

[00:15:11] Toliy: yeah. Yeah. 'cause I feel like why, when you don't, when you don't re re respect like the truth or like the laws of like the universe. Yeah. Like, um, you, you have a certain, um, arrogance in you, and then you probably, like, the arrogance probably stem from like, like, uh, it, like it's probably hidden under a bunch of fears.

[00:15:32] Yeah. 

[00:15:33] Toliy: You know, and then those can die. Yeah. I think 

[00:15:35] Mike: that's like a control driven too. Like a lot of times people use that, you know? Yeah. Uh, because they want to control and they don't respect the law of the universe because it's driven by their own desire to control everything. That's right. What is she going to do?

[00:15:50] What is she going to do? Is she doing right? Is she doing wrong? Like 

[00:15:52] Eldar: a lot of times, right? Like we hold on to these ideals that the, the so called world, right? Not the [00:16:00] universal truths. Yeah have proposed to us. Mm 

[00:16:02] hmm. 

[00:16:03] Eldar: Oh You know the man's supposed to pay. 

[00:16:06] Mm 

[00:16:06] Eldar: hmm. So the worldview. 

[00:16:07] Mm hmm 

[00:16:08] Eldar: When you're in a relationship when you're dating someone or when you're in a marriage or whatever Why is it on the man if two people are working are able have legs feet?

[00:16:20] Mind, they're both making money. Why does the man have to pay a hundred percent? 

[00:16:27] Yeah, 

[00:16:27] Eldar: like what is the reasoning and logic behind that? Right, because if you're in a loving relationship, 

[00:16:33] right, 

[00:16:34] Eldar: in a reasonable relationship, we understand that working, right, it's tough overall, right, for a man and for a woman.

[00:16:45] If two people are reasonable and understand this fact about life, right, and you add the fact that they love each other and care for another. Why would one be subjected for more suffering versus the other in the loving relationship? 

[00:16:59] Toliy: No, but I [00:17:00] think that like like wait wait what you're saying is like in an impossible scenario I think what what's missing are like that like are those loving relationships and those actual yes 

[00:17:11] Eldar: Yes, 

[00:17:12] Toliy: which is why that type of stuff 

[00:17:13] Eldar: exists 

[00:17:13] Toliy: to begin it.

[00:17:14] Eldar: Thank you. That's what I was getting at, right? In a good, reasonable relationship, a woman, just like the man, care for one another. Right? The loving factor. He said, yo, bro, you don't have a variable. If there's no love, which is the variable that you need in a relationship, you're not gonna get this fucking shit.

[00:17:32] But most people believe that the man's supposed to pay. Who said this? Who set up these rules? And why are men, like him, not fighting 

[00:17:42] Toliy: back? 

[00:17:43] Eldar: The 

[00:17:43] Toliy: fuck? No, but those rules made sense at one point. 

[00:17:49] Eldar: Maybe historically, yeah, when the woman wasn't at home picking berries and the man hunted the deer 

[00:17:55] Toliy: Yeah, okay, like when women again had no Right to vote and, [00:18:00] and sure can't work.

[00:18:01] Sure. Yes. 

[00:18:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:02] Toliy: Yeah. During that time, a hundred percent makes sense. We're not even part of that time. No. Yeah. But, but saying we're far removed from it. I'm saying all Yeah. But all that, it's still being passed on. Yeah. I, yeah. I think that like we're time-wise, far removed from it, but we're not far removed from 

[00:18:17] Eldar: I agree.

[00:18:17] I agree with you with that. I do agree with you that 

[00:18:19] Toliy: like the, the Yes. The changing of people's mentalities Yes. Moves at like a fraction of the time. The actual time helps. Correct. 

[00:18:25] Eldar: See, that's a very good point. You 

[00:18:27] Toliy: know, like we talk about like, I don't know, slavery or racism, which like, to me, I mean, in my lifetime, I didn't experience like, like those kinds of things to that like level, right?

[00:18:40] And like, to me, that feels like that's crazy long ago, but based on how people act, 

[00:18:45] those mentalities is, 

[00:18:46] Toliy: yeah, it's right here. It's still there. It's still here. Alive and well. All of these different things, same, same, same thing with this man paying for women, right? Even though this might have been. Stupid long ago.

[00:18:57] Yeah. 

[00:18:57] Toliy: Mentality wise people have not [00:19:00] hopped over that. Upgraded. Upgraded. Yeah. 

[00:19:03] Normal. 

[00:19:04] Toliy: Yeah, maybe people like upgraded on like certain things like that are like a Like a necessities of things where it's like you don't suffer from them anymore But for these kind of like concepts, I think it's still Alive and well on all 

[00:19:20] Eldar: fronts, then we set ourselves up for failure, right?

[00:19:24] With these concepts that we didn't upgrade ourselves, they didn't update ourselves, then my cousin or whoever else is in a relationship where a man believes that they have to provide 100 percent they're going to struggle. 

[00:19:35] Toliy: Yeah. When, when you have like scenarios, one, one, I think group thinking like large group thinking, like for it to, to like actually change takes like a very, very long, that's one thing.

[00:19:47] But it takes even longer when you have group thinking paired with like individual idolizing of, of like, uh, vanity based, uh, things, 

[00:19:59] Eldar: [00:20:00] vanity, 

[00:20:00] Toliy: and that, that slows down everything that slows down the whole cycle of everything. It's like when he looks at someone that he feels it's like, um, so. Like a successful, he views them as like they're a winner at life, they win, and he's under the impression that they don't lose, 

[00:20:17] right?

[00:20:18] Eldar: Yeah, because only the surface stuff gives them, uh, validity to his argument. Yeah, yeah, 

[00:20:25] Toliy: yeah, enough, uh, He's like, yes, you see, I told you, you see this? Yeah, yeah, this is a winner, why? Because like, But he has this one, 

[00:20:32] Eldar: two, three. 

[00:20:32] Toliy: Look at what he has, but they don't know as to what level that they actually lose.

[00:20:37] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:20:38] Toliy: You know? 

[00:20:38] Eldar: Yeah. Like an example what he said, right? Hey, you have a house. You have a car. That's it But totally can give you a list of a thousand things right now what he doesn't have and that's why he's internally not satisfied still 

[00:20:50] Yeah, 

[00:20:52] Eldar: but we're not looking at those things. Those things are invisible.

[00:20:55] What do you have to complain about?

[00:20:59] Yeah, [00:21:00] 

[00:21:00] Eldar: so yeah 

[00:21:01] say something cuz

[00:21:06] Eldar: but he doesn't even have to because we I think we're saying it all, you know 

[00:21:14] Toliy: Yeah, that that that's the interesting thing is also like when when you're growing up, especially when you're young you're idolizing particular Things because they're, they're, they're, they're called like, like, it's such an interesting word.

[00:21:28] Like, what, how did it come to be where like someone said, like, these are surface level things? 

[00:21:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:21:34] Toliy: How did that, you know, where that like 

[00:21:36] Eldar: came about? No, but I'm pretty sure somebody sat around and then, what's his name? They needed to explain the phenomena that they're observing and they're like, yo, that's 

[00:21:44] Toliy: Tell me this, why, why are surface level things people's deepest desires?

[00:21:54] Like how, how, how did that happen then? Like if these things are like identified as, okay, these are surface level things, [00:22:00] how to another mind No, no, no, no, no. These are their 

[00:22:02] Eldar: desires. The individuals that are identifying these are surface level things are not the same individuals that are saying that these are the most important things.

[00:22:10] Yeah, but how crazy is 

[00:22:11] Toliy: that? That like 

[00:22:12] Eldar: the person who said to the person who said that surface level things. Mm-hmm . That specific phrase is most likely our thinker. A psychologist or philosopher. You know what I mean? 

[00:22:20] Toliy: No, no. Yeah, but like. How crazy is it? Is it that there is like one type of like, like, uh, like, like there's a human race of people that, um, exists and they're like on the opposite spectrum to the same thing.

[00:22:36] Eldar: Well, yeah, that's what right now we're sitting here peacefully and in Ukraine and Russia, they have a war where they rip each 

[00:22:42] Toliy: other's bodies apart. But tell me this, no matter which side in that example that that you take, whether you say like, hey, this is everything. And then the other person that says, this is nothing, right?

[00:22:54] Mm hmm. Why don't you think that, um, in both, [00:23:00] like, in, in, in both cases, unless you're telling me that people are not, like, if you know, for, for example, right, let's say you feel strongly about something, right? Mm hmm. And there's people out there that you're aware of that feel the complete opposite as to what you feel strongly about.

[00:23:17] They're on the opposite spectrum as you. 

[00:23:19] Okay. 

[00:23:20] Toliy: Right? Why does that not lead humans to be naturally curious to figure out what's actually true? Because, because in the moment of 

[00:23:27] Eldar: thinking of what you're thinking about, you don't actually acknowledge the fact that there's an opposite, uh, spectrum exists in existence.

[00:23:36] You only see your own world. That's the only reason, 

[00:23:39] Toliy: but the people who are for, for example, extreme, like materialism, right? Yeah. Or, or, or like there, do they not know that like non materialism exists or no, they don't. You think they actually don't, 

[00:23:49] Eldar: they don't. And if they do acknowledge it, that it exists.

[00:23:53] They think it's wrong. They have to. 

[00:23:55] Toliy: But how can you think it's wrong without looking into it first? 

[00:23:59] Mike: Well, because [00:24:00] Because the feelings also make you feel real. When you do something, and it's actually like a material thing, you're making that person happy. It's not genuine happiness, right? But this person still feels like they are extracting genuine happiness.

[00:24:15] Eldar: For whatever psychological level that they're on. Yeah, those things provide them something that they were actually looking for and chasing Yeah, and therefore they're like almost validity making Validates validates themselves that this is correct This is real and those people got it wrong because I know how I feel those people are wrong That's a complete illusion and delusion.

[00:24:33] Yeah, 

[00:24:34] Eldar: but it exists nonetheless who told him that at 30 years old you're old You can't start a new life. Mm-hmm . Who I want to know, I wanna speak to him. Yeah. Or her. Bring her here. Mm-hmm . Or bring him here. Bring them here. 

[00:24:49] Mm-hmm . 

[00:24:50] Eldar: I would love to look him in the eyes and say, Hey, what'd you do to my cousin?

[00:24:55] Or the guy that said that a woman has to pay a, uh, nothing. 

[00:24:59] Mm-hmm . 

[00:24:59] Eldar: [00:25:00] A working good woman or whatever, right? Mm-hmm . Doesn't have to pay nothing. Who told you this? I would like to speak to them. Yeah. What what are we talking about here? Mm hmm kids like him going around creating these illusions these fake things because they're trying to make Something 

[00:25:16] mm hmm 

[00:25:17] Eldar: right just like you thought back in a day that you needed to shower girls with gifts In order to prove yourself in order to show them that you're worth it.

[00:25:25] What the fuck And now you're like, what the fuck was I doing you went on vacation with Dasha and you had a great time You didn't buy her fucking thing. 

[00:25:32] Mm hmm, 

[00:25:32] Eldar: you know you saw it. Mm hmm because you were authentic because you were funny and Compatibility in that moment clicked. Yeah. Sure. We're not gonna be compatible with everyone Sure, some people will look at your human, but you a fucking bully.

[00:25:45] Mm hmm 

[00:25:46] Eldar: You know what? I mean, but that specific person understood it in that moment and it wasn't about money It was about genuinely good time and a good company. That's it. And that exists. It exists. You just have to [00:26:00] number one, stand behind it, try it out, you know, and be patient and find who's compatible for you.

[00:26:06] Then when you do, you'll see it's fucking, it's awesome. You know what I mean? You click and you fucking have a good time. 

[00:26:11] Yeah. 

[00:26:12] Eldar: It's not about money, but if it is about money. Hey, we want a house. I don't want to live in this shitty apartment anymore. If it becomes about money, then you're like, okay, cool, what do we do?

[00:26:20] We have a conversation. We have a communication where it's like, okay, let's work. Let's work for it together. Because we're together. But who's having these open conversations? It seems like there's a stranger and a stranger. They live together. But the only bond On the images that they both believe what that's crazy.

[00:26:39] Do you understand this two strangers don't really know each other Right the fact that she might be fucking insecure about her small tits He might not even care about the small tits, but she's insecure about it 

[00:26:52] Yeah, 

[00:26:53] Eldar: or he might not make enough and he's insecure about the fact that he has a bad job But she might not even care about the money.

[00:26:58] Yeah, because all she [00:27:00] wants is attention. You know what i'm saying? ultimately everybody no, no, but what i'm saying is that they They don't even know each other. Yeah, they don't know each other, yeah. So they're living out imaginary created scenarios in their minds, thinking that they get it. And all they do is these images.

[00:27:19] They create these little images. They patch up, patch up, patch up. You know? The work. Just to find out one day you wake up, you're like, yo, we don't know each other. Oh, you're about this? Oh, yeah, I'm about this. Who are you? Yeah, 

[00:27:31] Toliy: but I feel like The, uh, creating of these perceptions is very, um, very, uh, like they're easy.

[00:27:40] Yeah. Very easy. Are you 

[00:27:42] Eldar: crazy? You get depression, you get bipolar, you get suicide, you get alcoholics, you get, you get all the, are you crazy? This is what it leads to, you know, because you constantly are suffering. A slow and steady suffering. Yeah, one, one, one. And then you wake up, you're like, oh shit, I'm depressed.

[00:27:58] You don't even know what happened. [00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Toliy: Yeah, one, one, one thing we were talking about yesterday. Wait, 

[00:28:04] Eldar: wait, wait, and the ego says what? I'm sorry. And the ego says, yo, bro, I got a way out. See, she's on social media now. Mm-hmm . Let's post that. We're in America and we're wearing these clothes, or we're going to the casino.

[00:28:18] Let's do that. Let's show her that. He goes like, we can rescue ourselves. Yeah. Let's create another image. You know what I'm saying? 

[00:28:26] Mike: Yeah. You wanted to do that. Wow. That's good. He's good. This is, this is it. I know. I know. He is. This is nothing new. But that's what happens with a lot of people. Only him and Greece is having this problem, guys.

[00:28:38] Yeah. . Nobody in the world. 

[00:28:41] Eldar: Yeah, nobody. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, sorry to tell you. No, no, no, 

[00:28:45] Toliy: no. I was trying to say that we, we, we were talking about, um, I mean, it was entitled because of like, uh, of, uh, um, advice, but I feel like it. Go with what you're saying, like when there's something that you [00:29:00] need, need to make like a decision for yourself or you create a perception for yourself, you always need when, when it's only you and yourself, you need very little evidence for something.

[00:29:11] Yeah. But when, when someone's trying to give you advice. Yeah. You, you require the world of them. World worth of evidence. Wow. You need like every case file that ever, ever exists. Yeah. To listen to somebody else. Why'd you come up with that? That is a very interesting 

[00:29:25] Eldar: thing. Did you hear this? 

[00:29:27] Yeah. 

[00:29:27] Eldar: Uh, do you understand this?

[00:29:29] Yeah, we, we, we were talking about it. I remember in the car. That is a very interesting observation. 

[00:29:33] Toliy: Yeah, when it's you yourself Yeah, like meaning to prove something out like one perception. You need no evidence. Nothing. Nothing. It's right there I'm ready to grab it now. Now if I want advice from you, I want help from you Yeah, you need to bring every proof of evidence.

[00:29:48] You need magic binder everything. Yes to convince me. Yes to help myself Yes, that's what if it's me making a decision for myself and nothing, 

[00:29:58] Eldar: you know what? If [00:30:00] that's the case, that's how you prove out that it's ego operating in your mind. This is ego. 

[00:30:05] Mm 

[00:30:06] Toliy: hmm. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was telling him that, like, the easiest That's crazy.

[00:30:12] advice to take from somebody is just to, like, keep doing what you're doing or keep suffering. That's, like, the only advice that's just, like, like, it's going to work. Yeah, basically because life is life. Yeah, but when any of us like ask for help on some something We're gonna like fight the help to the death, even though we're asking for it, right?

[00:30:34] Yeah, and we need it for example, and we're gonna need you to bring everything to the table Everything to destroy this thought though that we have so that we can jump over this yeah, but we make reckless decisions all the time for ourselves with like No testing of things. We don't need proof. We don't need like nothing, you know, 

[00:30:57] Eldar: that is, that is an interesting observation and it's, [00:31:00] you're a hundred percent spot on on it.

[00:31:01] Toliy: No. 

[00:31:02] Eldar: Who the fuck do we think we are? Yeah. Yeah. That's how it is. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. To change your mind, I gotta bring a thousand sources Yeah. And references. Yeah. And evidence. Yeah. To change your stupid ass mind because you are fucking, you know, doubtful here, you know? Yeah. 

[00:31:20] Toliy: Yeah. I think we were the Eagle's wild talking about that.

[00:31:22] Like we, we were talking about, I think Tulsa saying like, like, show me the proof. Yeah. Like, I need proof. 

[00:31:28] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:31:28] Toliy: I need like when when when you need help on something and someone tries to give you something. Hold on one second I have 

[00:31:33] Eldar: proof. I have proof. 

[00:31:36] Toliy: I showed him I had proof in my house to all that. 

[00:31:39] Eldar: So are we saying that Individuals who have ego and pride and arrogance that is completely running them will never succeed and by definition We know what success means.

[00:31:51] This is just doesn't mean that I'm gonna have this on my wrist. It's more than that, right? It's proper relationships. It's happiness lasting [00:32:00] happiness Right. Maybe even this, you know, because we see plenty of people who are rich, right? Even rich celebrities that are miserable as fuck. Of course. Right. So the evidence is not like, cool, get the money guaranteed success, guaranteed happiness.

[00:32:15] What? All right. So show me, show me the people that are, you know, have, have money and not suffering. 

[00:32:21] I 

[00:32:21] Eldar: see them everywhere. 

[00:32:22] Yeah. You know,

[00:32:31] we came from revenge. 

[00:32:34] Eldar: The ego wants revenge. It wants to defend itself. 

[00:32:38] Mike: But it's interesting if you think about what's happening, the ego wants revenge against somebody else for them themselves. Like for you, wronging yourself. 

[00:32:47] Eldar: Yeah. That's so twisted. But yeah, but the part of where you point the finger and say you wrong yourself doesn't exist.

[00:32:53] No, I know. But that's actually what's happening. I know. But that's the sickest twist. It is. It is a sickest twist. 

[00:32:58] Toliy: But is it in all cases [00:33:00] where, uh, you wrong, you wronged yourself? 

[00:33:02] Eldar: Yeah, I think so. I think that it's, and, and revenge only comes out of the fact that you have an ego or whatever, you know what I mean?

[00:33:09] Yeah. Because if not, then you get over things quicker, right? Yeah. You like, whatever. It's hard because you, and then you, you can sleep at night. Mm-hmm . You know what I mean? It's 

[00:33:17] Toliy: hard because when, when you like, are in that position, if you wrong yourself, you're under the wrong impression. Like you're under the wrong impression.

[00:33:24] Therefore, like particular things unfold. You're missing information or the question is 

[00:33:28] Eldar: the question is how long were you under the wrong impression? And then if you said also before I remember you said a very interesting thing, too You said okay, cool. Like you could be under the wrong impression. You could be ignorant But if you're doubling down on this ignorance And if you are promoting that you think you know something you want to defend the shit to the death And you're guilty as charged then you need the whole fucking kitchen sink to be thrown at you.

[00:33:53] You got to take 

[00:33:54] Toliy: the 

[00:33:54] Eldar: crapper You got to take the crapper. Open your mouth And shit in your fucking [00:34:00] mouth. You got to take the crapper You know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, I'm sure you could be under the wrong impression, but you'll get over it quick You know what I mean? You won't be as fucking you know, you know As ruminating at it as much, you know,

[00:34:20] and it's constantly going to be bothering you and keeping you up at night, you know You just move on. Okay, I was wrong. I was under the wrong impression But if you are under the wrong impression and then you were defending this shit to the death You know, trying to prove others wrong right when you were wrong if that's what ego was talking.

[00:34:38] Yeah. Oh, yeah You're gonna have a you're gonna have a really nice time That is where we talked about this the mental the mental health topic We had maybe episode 50 or 52 how mental illnesses are born. 

[00:34:53] Mm hmm. 

[00:34:53] Eldar: All right Yeah for a long period of time when you live in a delusion and you constantly keep hitting [00:35:00] yourself your head in cognitive dissonance You know you're thinking one thing but the reality is different and you're constantly battling the two Yeah, you're gonna birth in a depression.

[00:35:10] You're gonna birth some kind of fucking psychological disorder sooner or later. It's inevitable It's inevitable. Yeah. Yeah And we can see this in our parents guys. We can watch this in our parents being born It's becoming worse and worse and worse 

[00:35:28] Toliy: Yeah, it's crazy that like, um, wrong perception creates like the, the, it's like, um, like over, over, over an extended period of time creates mental illness.

[00:35:42] But so like, if, like, if that's the reality, like, but like with, with that said, we are still very fast to make perceptions in, um, general, yeah. Like if you're going to have a perception, you better be right [00:36:00] 

[00:36:00] Eldar: for your sake, you know, 

[00:36:02] Toliy: if not, you're going to be like your, your, your, your efforts are going to do everything possible to make you like mentally 

[00:36:08] Eldar: disabled.

[00:36:09] Well, that's why Socrates, I think, stayed away from fucking saying that. I know this. He said, no, no, no, no, no. I know nothing. Why? Because he knew he could be wrong. He opened the doors to say, you know what? I'm not sure. Let's find out. Let's go on a journey to find out what is the truth together, you know?

[00:36:29] And I think that's why he did what he did, because he knew the detrimental, how detrimental it is to make these perceptions, like you said. Yeah. You better be fucking right. 

[00:36:41] Yeah. 

[00:36:42] Eldar: Because if not we talked about this before too, but it's such a how long how long each perception has a timeline that you need To live out in order to prove it out wrong How long he's been living this perception of I have to pay for the girls all the time and not accept any of them of Their money even when the girls were offering him [00:37:00] to pay for hotels, but pay for food, right?

[00:37:03] Imagine that right how long does he have to live out this perception up until something stops? He's like wait, is this right? Did I get it right or did I get it wrong? You know what I'm saying? How long? What other perceptions are we living in? We're talking about before, right? That are we living out right now and we don't know how long it's gonna take to get rid of them.

[00:37:23] It's crazy. 

[00:37:24] Toliy: But, but the cra like, to, to, to me even more crazy than that is the fact that, um, uh, uh, If you are living out a wrong perception, you are going to suffer and create mental illness and just in general, like bad life for yourself. Yeah, sure. Right. But then you also Well, you know, 

[00:37:45] Eldar: don't speak in the terms of bad life.

[00:37:47] You will receive the consequences that are the consequences based on the things that you're doing. 

[00:37:52] Toliy: Yeah, which are gonna be suffering. Suffering, but not a bad life. Fine, suffering. Suffering. Right. But then you also are [00:38:00] putting, um, like, efforts in place to contribute towards your suffering. By having wrong perceptions, so it's like all your efforts are going to making like, I guess, life worse and worse for you because you're, like, putting work into these perceptions.

[00:38:17] Absolutely, 

[00:38:17] Eldar: and that's where you get very tired very quick, and you're like, what the fuck, what the fuck. Yeah, 

[00:38:22] Toliy: yeah, yeah, like, that part of it is crazy that like, okay, you can have the wrong idea about things, but then you're also working harder and harder. That's like supporting this wrong idea on top of it.

[00:38:34] You'll argue. Yeah. You'll argue to the death. 

[00:38:36] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. That, that, that is like crazy. One thing you create a war within yourself, another thing, then you'll create a war with others. And I told them how these wars begin ideologies, right? When a mass amount of people accepted one ideology and mass amount of people accepted another ideology.

[00:38:53] Sooner or later, they get close enough, there's going to be friction. We don't agree, we don't agree, we don't agree. [00:39:00] Pointing fingers, pushing, next thing you know we're killing each other. Now it's a mass war. But it's super necessary because if ideologies are not rooted in truth, there is no yield, right?

[00:39:10] Right? Like the Buddhists yielded, right? When the Chinese came in, right? And they said, yo, kill us. They just laid in front of the tanks and they just killed them. They moved. They yielded. There's no continuation of killing of, for example, of them, right? Because they yielded. They were on the side of the truth, let's just say.

[00:39:28] Right? And that's it. But if you don't yield, you have to keep going, you have to keep fighting, 

[00:39:35] you 

[00:39:35] Eldar: know,

[00:39:39] so yeah, everything's tied up together. 

[00:39:46] Yeah, 

[00:39:47] Eldar: and it goes back to revenge the ego has to get its back if you don't grow if you don't grow That's what you're gonna be fueled by you're gonna be fueled by the ego Who's gonna be telling you in your mind like yo, let's go [00:40:00] prove it wrong. Yeah, I told you everything I told you everything, you know, I created this image.

[00:40:04] I was correct about it So you can say I told you I told you watch me now. I'm the man now. 

[00:40:12] Toliy: Yeah, the question is that like

[00:40:17] When, when, when you quest out for revenge, right? Mm hmm. Um, do you ever get what you want? 

[00:40:26] Eldar: Ultimately, like you said, in those movies, you're under the impression that you're getting what you want, but you're going to be standing alone completely. 

[00:40:33] Yeah. 

[00:40:34] Eldar: Inside, after everything's said and done, you're like, yeah, see what I did?

[00:40:37] See what I did? You go home, you lay your head, and that's it. You're still alone. Yeah. Nobody loves you. Yeah, 

[00:40:43] Toliy: like, I feel like, like, uh, like, um, Like revenge that actually happens. It's it's it's always like a lonely place. 

[00:40:53] Eldar: Yeah, you know, it is a lonely place Because it's only your illusion bro. 

[00:40:59] Toliy: Yeah, 

[00:40:59] Eldar: [00:41:00] like you said because the other people right if you look around you survey them Yo, should I do this a lot of people would tell you now bro.

[00:41:05] Let it go No, 

[00:41:06] Toliy: but but but it's also that like like proving somebody Wrong, right? Like for example, right? It's it's it's like highlighting like highlighting in someone's face I like I won And you lost, but can you ever truly win if it's not together? 

[00:41:26] Eldar: That's a, that's another question. And I think that I agree with you here, you know, obviously, you know, you, you can't 

[00:41:31] Toliy: truly like win because if you're alone and you think you won, like you actually lost, you know, 

[00:41:40] Eldar: that's why the people like, for example, Mayweather.

[00:41:43] Right. 

[00:41:43] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:41:43] Eldar: We'll look at some of these people and like, Oh shit, they have to buy friends. You know what I mean, because they really don't have any, they don't have real friends, you know,

[00:41:57] and I think that's why I think it's also, it's a [00:42:00] very unique situation that we have got going on here is because we try to level up together because we're honest about the problems that we have, you know what I mean, and we're trying to be as close as possible when it comes to where we stand both financially and mentally or whatever, you know, because we know like, like, I can't be driving a jet, right?

[00:42:21] Like, or first class and you guys are not rocking with me. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, what? It doesn't make no sense. How can I do this? How can I separate you myself from you guys? You know what I mean? So we have to constantly, constantly level up together. That's the only way I see it being fair or nice or enjoyable at the end of the day.

[00:42:41] Enjoyable more than anything, you know? I wouldn't want to be by myself, you know, you could be the loneliest person, but sure on the private jet, but it could be the loneliest person on a private jet. You can't take your crew, you can't take your people, you know, sure, let's get the private jet, but let's get it together.[00:43:00] 

[00:43:00] You know, 

[00:43:02] Mike: uh, project, they don't have this in Greece. Yeah.

[00:43:11] Toliy: Yeah. I was going to say, I think that there, there is like a group shared humility in the, in, in, in the acknowledgement and the honesty of like your own problems. You know, that, that, that's like created. Like when you have that, 

[00:43:25] Eldar: see, you always talk about that. Yeah. They're like, you can trick yourself and you can constantly create illusions within yourself.

[00:43:33] Right. Your ego and your pride, but as soon as you in a group setting with people who don't have the same horse in the race as you do, you put it out and say, Hey, this is what I'm working with people like, what the fuck are you talking about? What'd you create over here? Your own checking savings bank, you know, account, what are you talking about?

[00:43:57] You made a Malacca here, you know, and now you have to be [00:44:00] humble. You're going to get humbled or next time you get scared, you don't show up. I go, I'm not sharing that. They don't support me. Yeah. They don't give, give out hugs like they do in that other group over there. You know, when Nate said that shit, the fuck, you know what I mean?

[00:44:20] Like, that's why when I go into these relationships, when everything, when I give everything and we hit that point, well, we know who we actually are together. Like we look each other in the eye and say, Oh, this is who you are. This is who I am. The door's right there. Bye. I don't feel uneasy. I don't feel like I'm losing something.

[00:44:38] Now I know when Nate said totally setting everything up in such a way, not to invite me over the house. I said, what the fuck? You know what I mean? 

[00:44:46] Yeah, 

[00:44:46] Eldar: we're trying, constantly trying to include him. You know what I mean? And everything I'm fighting with my wife telling her like, Hey, Nate needs this. He needs this vacation.

[00:44:55] You know what I mean? Because he's not feeling, cause he's depressed after a breakup. You know, so for you to come [00:45:00] back and make these accusations like, well, okay. 

[00:45:02] Yeah, 

[00:45:03] Eldar: you know that I don't feel bad, you know, I stand behind what I actually believed I executed in accordance to that I'm, not making those phone calls who called me He's making the apologizing phone calls.

[00:45:16] Yeah. Why is Dennis reaching out to me saying, I don't feel so well? 

[00:45:19] Mm hmm. 

[00:45:20] Eldar: Why? I thought I did something wrong. I was accused of one who said, who was not being a good friend. Right. How come I'm feeling fine? You know? And I think that's the same way it has to be in a relationship. I'm not trying to revenge Nate or Dennis or anything.

[00:45:39] I don't care about that. What am I going to revenge them for? I don't feel like, do what, you know? I'm gonna do what I said I was gonna do. Continue doing this shit. And that's the truth. Cause I believe in my shit. I like my shit. And nobody can tell me shit.[00:46:00] 

[00:46:01] You know, so yeah, I don't, that's why I don't think revenge would be born because like you said, if you stand on truth, um, and you were truthful to yourself, you had, you have the confidence that you, you did the right thing or to, to your best abilities, you didn't cheat, didn't lie, didn't steal, didn't do any of that stuff.

[00:46:21] Then when, when shit does hit the fan, you, you, you know, that you could say God, you could say truth, you could say the universe is, is behind you, you know what I mean? So if those people, one day come around, I'm open to that. You know me. We, you know us. Yeah, of course. Course. We're open with open arms. Yeah, no problem.

[00:46:42] No problem. You know, but it has to be correct. I remember how we ended up mm-hmm . You can't come in, talk about gossip with me. 

[00:46:52] Yeah.

[00:46:55] You know, small talk. Mm. 

[00:46:58] Eldar: I'm not playing that, that [00:47:00] game no more. 

[00:47:01] No, that's it. Mm-hmm . 

[00:47:04] Eldar: The gig is up.

[00:47:08] So what do you think about this revenge thing, Mike? The ego, the driven, or what?

[00:47:16] Yeah. I think I said this, um, 

[00:47:19] Mike: like a while ago, I think, um, it's in the same category. People will do everything they possibly can to run from themselves. And I think this is, uh, this is one example of that. Yeah. How like, if you don't allow the ego to push you, then put that accountability on the other person.

[00:47:42] Yeah. 

[00:47:43] Mike: Where are you going to put it on? Not yourself. 

[00:47:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:46] Mike: That's hard. 

[00:47:48] Eldar: Yeah. Let's play the illusionary game still 

[00:47:51] Mike: you have to you have to keep playing the game. This is another example of running 

[00:47:54] Eldar: running Yeah, 

[00:47:55] Mike: another area of like running from facing yourself facing that you're actually you're a loser, bro [00:48:00] You're a piece of shit.

[00:48:01] Yeah, that's that person to yourself to yourself. You don't love yourself Yeah, how the fuck you expect somebody else to love you care about you. You don't deserve it You don't love yourself. Why would he deserve somebody else to love you? 

[00:48:11] Yeah. 

[00:48:12] Mike: I mean, I learned that lesson. 

[00:48:17] Eldar: Yeah. So, so, okay. So if you learned or learned that lesson, you definitely went through it.

[00:48:20] And I saw it. I mean, it was hard, right? And you, like you were getting angry and stuff like that, you know, obviously frustrated and all that stuff. Um, what do you recommend if it's a hard journey? What do you do to the young generation?

[00:48:38] Where do you start? Let's start with what to stop being running from yourself. But finally face yourself and say, you know what? Yeah, I'm a liar. I'm a cheater. I'm a, you know, thief. I think, 

[00:48:50] Mike: um, I think, uh, it's gonna be funny, but I think you should run faster. 

[00:48:57] Eldar: Yeah, I agree with you, but that's like paradoxical.

[00:48:59] It's a [00:49:00] paradoxical, yeah. You have like a practical, no? Practical? There's no practical? Yeah, there is a practical. You just said it. Keep going keep going keep doing what you're doing, but do it even faster. Yeah. Yeah do even better create a bigger picture Yeah, hey 

[00:49:14] Mike: you want you want to take these this this home you want a couple you want a couple watches I have one to Rolex.

[00:49:20] Also, let's create it. Let's create the image. Yeah, see how it feels, right? Yeah, let's do it Let's play that game, but now it's different, you know, it's different when yes when them when the magic trick is revealed. Yes Yes, cuz now We know. Yeah. No, now he knows. Now he knows he's doing it. He knows he's doing it.

[00:49:43] Now you know you're 

[00:49:43] Eldar: doing magic. And now you know what Socrates said? No one knowingly does wrong, or he put it as evil. No one knowingly does evil, which is wrong. It's impossible. 

[00:49:58] Mike: Impossible. [00:50:00] I was thinking about this thing, I'm not sure if it makes sense, but there's no such thing as bad or evil. It's either truth or ignorance.

[00:50:07] Yeah. Is this somebody said this before? Yeah. Yeah. I'll, I'll also agree with this. Yeah, I, I said it because, like, you said something earlier and you said something about not a bad life. And I was like, yeah, what is that? Like, it made me think bad life, but there's no such thing. One is because we are not God.

[00:50:24] We don't know. Yeah. But also it made me think about the story with the horse and the guy, he fell off the horse, he broke his leg. Hmm. We don't know what's in our God's plan for or the universe's plan or the justice plan. What are we supposed to do? The more we suffer, the faster we get to the thing. Yeah.

[00:50:42] And, we can't call it. Yeah. And I think that's, uh 

[00:50:47] Eldar: That's why the old man said, I don't know. We'll see. 

[00:50:50] Mike: He doesn't know. 

[00:50:51] Eldar: I don't know what's gonna happen. 

[00:50:52] Mike: Let's see. Yeah. You know? And that's the truth. Cause it doesn't know. That is the truth. Yeah. That is the truth. For him to say something, that it's, it's good or bad, it's, it's [00:51:00] to be It's to make 

[00:51:00] Eldar: him arrogant.

[00:51:01] Mike: Yeah. It's arrogant. And it's ignorant. Ignorant and arrogant. Yeah. So that, that, that's what made me think about that. You know. Because we really don't know right now you're suffering. Yeah, but maybe the suffering is gonna help you to realize why it's something else Something very important and to change your life You know for everybody 

[00:51:20] Eldar: because I don't know if this is good or bad Yeah, 

[00:51:22] Mike: I don't know in the moment.

[00:51:23] It feels it feels um feels 

[00:51:27] Eldar: bad That is why you know one person's suffering and if we look at it objectively, we're like no, this is very good You just don't see it yet. You know, he said oh what the fuck i'm old and now i'm realizing it I'm like, this is the best time for you to realize now right now.

[00:51:41] Thank god. You realize it right now You wanted to prolong this shit. You wanted to keep fucking make this as fake image. Mm hmm. Thank god you did it You know, 

[00:51:50] yeah, 

[00:51:51] Eldar: you have a better chance that your parents did because they couldn't do it 

[00:51:55] Mike: when I was his age I was I was in a relationship with a girl that Just like this.[00:52:00] 

[00:52:00] Yeah, like you just described. Yeah, I was 30 years old. I was dealing girl I was buying her expensive shit all the time expensive trips when I was 30, you know And that lasted a long time that lasted a long time. Yeah 

[00:52:14] Eldar: Yeah, and you've experienced and those mental challenges Years down the line, the insecurity, right?

[00:52:24] All those things you needed to face to be like, what was I fucking doing? Who was this person? And why was I so hypnotized? Well, the world hypnotized you, you know? The world hypnotized your parents, your parents hypnotized you, you know, and then your friends or peers, whoever hypnotized you, you know, everybody that you looked up to, the celebrities hypnotized you, these commercials, TV, games, whatever it is, everything hypnotized 

[00:52:46] you.

[00:52:46] And then 

[00:52:47] Eldar: you come to realize that you don't even know who the fuck you are. Yeah, speaking of revenge, you know what came to mind, from a relationship at least, when I broke up with my girl, I mean, I think she broke up with me, you know what I mean? My ex, [00:53:00] you know, and I was heartbroken, you know, a thing was like, um, that like was always in my mind.

[00:53:08] I was like, yes, I'm horny. I just want to fuck her and just not like drop her kind of thing, you know, it's like, 

[00:53:13] Mike: I don't 

[00:53:14] Eldar: know why that was, but like, maybe a lot of people feel that way. Like, you just want to have sex with her and have it not mean anything, you know, like that kind of like a thing, because I guess every time I actually meant it, you know, I guess I was in love, a one sided love.

[00:53:26] But thing was like. I wanted to kind of like cleanse myself by like having like meaningless sex with her, you know, like a way to like revenge her, you know That came to mind. I don't know if that helps anyone If they're listening So did we tackle it? Did we do a good job if we do have any questions around it?

[00:53:44] Do we have final thoughts around revenge and how ego is involved in this how our pride is involved in this How we need to prove ourselves? 

[00:53:53] Toliy: Well, well we we talked about I guess like the case where it's like coming out of anger [00:54:00] Um, is there another case where like you're actually being wronged and then like you have, like, like you have a desire, maybe not even geared towards like that person, but maybe towards like the world?

[00:54:13] Eldar: Okay, the first, as soon as you said that, the first thing that came to mind is what the things, some of the things that happened to us at the gym, right? Like, like you were wrong. I felt like we were wrong. Like, you know, this person was doing injustice. Let's just say, right. So I guess maybe, um, you can spin this in a way where it's like, I don't want revenge or anything like that.

[00:54:32] Like, um, you know, who are we revenging? Like, I know who we're dealing with. These people are stupid. You know what I mean? Like we try to get justice. I would just say, you know, uh, and we saw that we kind of hitting a wall. Right? So, you know, Uh, when we try to go back, I don't know. I had the natural feeling of just like, I got a Nick, you know, and like from working out or just being in the facility, maybe, or whatever, whatever.

[00:54:58] And like, before I was like, no, let's [00:55:00] go over there and fucking show them, you know, let's go fucking find this guy. You know what I mean? Let's look these motherfuckers in the eye. You know what I mean? And like, maybe that was a level of like. Revenge, justice, maybe, you know, but then I went there, I was like, yo, like, that's an ick, you know what I mean?

[00:55:17] Like if I'm coming there with that type of energy, 

[00:55:20] right, 

[00:55:21] Eldar: maybe justice or whatever, you know, um, because the world wronged me or whatever, you know, that world was supposed to be fucking this way, you know what I mean? Like it's, it was, it was coming, right? And to expect something different from it, right? Um, it's to be naive almost.

[00:55:40] And I think I was to a degree, maybe naive. Up until I came in there and I had the feelings that I had, you know, and I was like, yo, this is it. And then, you know, we always talked about doing other things and this came to mind and we fucking were so pleasantly surprised 

[00:55:53] that 

[00:55:53] Eldar: I woke up and I was like, yo, I'm looking forward to going next time.

[00:55:56] Yeah. 

[00:55:56] Eldar: You know what I mean? And I'm like, I made the right decision here. You know what I [00:56:00] mean? But I had to go through my own journey of maybe revenge or justice. 

[00:56:05] Mike: Sometimes 

[00:56:06] Eldar: it's required. Yeah, like I was exhausting myself, you know, with, with that. And that was going to be interesting to see how we're going to go through the process of the deck thing too.

[00:56:14] It's another thing where I was like, kind of punish everyone. You know what I mean? I was like, we got to do this, you know, it's not so easy. In the bureaucratic world, right, we found out, these motherfuckers don't give a fuck, you know? The way to go through this is through lawyers, and we try, I try to contact the lawyers, I can't even fucking get a lawyer.

[00:56:30] You 

[00:56:30] Eldar: know what I mean? So like, I'm completely ignorant to that world, to that fucking stance. So I'm gonna find, try to be like water, and find the easiest path, right? And I think through this gym situation, I'm in this, now rock climbing with you, like if, show me where Some easy path to victory is and I hope to find that same thing with with the deck situation You know what?

[00:56:52] I mean where we we win we win and we continue to win You know what? I mean, you know, and I think the one thing he raised also like y'all [00:57:00] build a sauna in my house You know and I like we don't have a sauna which we like. Yeah, so like my mind's already going there. Yeah, that'd be cool She's down for it.

[00:57:07] We want it. Yeah. You know, shit, we work hard, we get it. Mm-hmm . The fuck. Yeah. You know? So like, that's how I'm thinking about it, you know? So it's not, it's not no longer rooted in like revenge or like 

[00:57:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:57:18] Eldar: Because I was hyped before. 

[00:57:19] Mike: Well, I think I felt fucked down. I was hyped too. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I was ready to go in there and like, you know.

[00:57:23] Yeah. Behave a certain way and you know, like to. Yeah, from revenge probably some anger like towards the injustice, you know, yeah Definitely, 

[00:57:34] Eldar: but you see like it was not sustainable because we're not we really don't live that life We don't want to be that kind of people right? So we pivot. 

[00:57:43] Yeah, 

[00:57:43] Eldar: and it was short lived You know what?

[00:57:46] I mean? Like don't give a fuck. Mm hmm. You know what I mean? Like I still believe that totally is right. We should still probably, you know, file a complaint in the corporate level. I think that's the right thing to do, right? To say like, hey, this is, this is what you got going on because this is what's going on.

[00:57:59] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:57:59] Eldar: [00:58:00] You know, uh, to raise awareness to say that, you 

[00:58:03] know. 

[00:58:04] Eldar: But other than that like chasing an outcome, but I don't know bro, you know I fucking climb those things and I found discovered myself. Like I said, I was like first I need to let go of that fucking wall thing, right? We climbed up there. He said just let go 

[00:58:17] Mike: So why because I went through the same experience too.

[00:58:19] I was like, are you telling me? Yeah, 

[00:58:21] Eldar: you're like not just just jump off I was like what you crazy. Like I was like, hey stupid. What do you mean? I'm gonna jump off Yeah, you know, but yeah, but like As soon as I did, I was like, oh shit, like, okay, this is cool. Yeah. This is nice, I could do this again. Yeah. And I discovered something that, that was a challenge that I haven't discovered in a long time.

[00:58:37] It was very humbling. What was playing jump off? You climb the fucking wall as high as possible. You with this rope, right? This rope. Mm-hmm . And then when you're done, you have to just jump off. Yeah. The rope will bring you down. Yeah. But just jumping off is not that simple. Like it's a, it's a mental block.

[00:58:53] You're like, what do you mean? I'm just, is 

[00:58:54] Toliy: is somebody like belaying you? Is that what Yeah. The thing is belaying you, it's, it's an auto, it's a natural person. No, 

[00:58:59] Eldar: it's a 

[00:58:59] Toliy: [00:59:00] auto. It's even better. 

[00:59:01] Eldar: Oh really? It, it's automatic. It's a machine. So I 

[00:59:02] Toliy: remember when we went, we had to like, uh, yeah, yeah. The instructor.

[00:59:05] Yes, you can do that 

[00:59:05] Eldar: too. But it was a machine. Right. But you're still on the rope. Yeah. Which not supposed to fail. But your mind's not saying that. Right? So you go through this experience of like, Wait, let go? I'm looking down. You're like 50 feet above the fucking thing. You know? So like, I was pleasantly surprised with my reaction there.

[00:59:21] Like, I need to overcome that and I liked it. You know, I don't get that in basketball, bro. You know what I mean? Like, I don't get that in lifting weights and doing pull ups. I 

[00:59:28] Mike: mean, every time we go rock climbing, I have the, I mean, uh, cliff jumping, I have that fear. But I like getting over it. Because I like to challenge myself.

[00:59:35] Because I am scared of it. Yeah. I'm scared of he and every time I'm scared, but I always look forward to it. Yeah. Even though I know what's coming. Yeah. But I feel like conquering it is, is is good. Yeah. And I 

[00:59:44] Eldar: enjoy that. And, and, and then climbing the rocks, right? The boulder. Mm-hmm . Like, it's super humbling.

[00:59:49] Like, first of all, your body gets up there and you are like, what the hell is happening here? Your mind's glitching because you don't know what to grab next. Mm-hmm . You are under pressure. Yeah. You are gonna fall. Yeah. You know what I mean? Do [01:00:00] something and that's cool. It's humbling and like, it's still competitive because you're competing against directly against yourself versus someone else.

[01:00:08] You know what I mean? Like a basketball team, for example, and it's, I think it's pretty cool. We were pleasantly surprised. That's why I'm looking forward to going tomorrow, you know, my arms are pretty good, 

[01:00:18] you 

[01:00:19] Eldar: know, but I want to challenge myself, you know, so yeah, so does that answer your question about justice, maybe revenge or do you feel like, 

[01:00:29] Mike: um, also like, I don't know, do you also feel like the situations that are playing out there, they will regardless work out justly, whether or not we involved in it or not.

[01:00:40] I let life deal with it. That's what I'm saying. Do you have that thing as well? I do. Yeah, that's how I feel about it. I do. Yeah. Like, everything's gonna work out the way it's supposed to work out. Yeah, yeah. The rats will be rats. That's right. And whatever's coming to them is whatever's coming to them.

[01:00:54] Yeah, I don't have no time. I don't have no time for that. 

[01:00:56] Eldar: Yeah. You know what I mean? No, and plus, though, I don't wish that for them. No, yeah. Because [01:01:00] at the end of the day, My wishes are going to be like, they're relevant. They're not going to come true. They're going to be wrong because I'm not a fucking mind reader here.

[01:01:09] You know, I'm not going to predict the future here, but what I know is that if you're a rat, you probably meet more rats. Yeah. That's gravity and I'm okay with that now. I don't want to be part of it now. Right. Especially because now I've discovered something. We discovered that they have a ping pong table.

[01:01:22] Totally. Oh, bro. This is perfect. You're going to love this. You know, just complete designated area for ping pong. And nobody's there, bro. And nobody's fucking there. Yeah. You know, so. It's cool. Yeah, that's cool. And I'm like just rediscovering a new identity of like, oh wow, you know, like there's a different completely different community It's a challenge.

[01:01:39] We were pleasantly also surprised that two girls were next to us. We're like Yeah, crazy things and we're like what is happening here? You know, they're like skinny as hell. Yeah, and they're doing these crazy things They're laughing. Yeah, they not stop. They're like saying funny shit. Yeah, they were buzzing and we're like, wow, like this good energy 

[01:01:55] Mike: Yeah, 

[01:01:55] Eldar: you know, like what do you want to call that luck?

[01:01:58] No, [01:02:00] you know It was nice and I think that life almost like you said almost turns itself the way it needs to turn if you Go towards maybe the truth and now follow your ego or your pride or you know, yeah, you know So I'm happy that it's that way because if I have the ability to have reasonable conversations with myself with you guys You know I'll find those ways, I'll return to them and I'll find peace, you know what I mean?

[01:02:31] And like I said, it was, it was cool to like, try to maybe start from the beginning of learning again something. And that's, rock climbing is fucking humbling as fuck. 

[01:02:40] Mike: Very, yeah. 

[01:02:41] Eldar: You know? Go try that fucking 2. Go try the damn 2 when there's 12 levels, and you try the fucking 1 or the 2, go. See how you fucking end up, you know?

[01:02:52] It's gonna be challenging and humbling and nice. 

[01:02:55] So,[01:03:00] 

[01:03:01] Eldar: any final thoughts on Revenge? Do more? Do more revenge. That's crazy because you know, I guess these are my final thoughts that When you zoom in and you pay attention Then you see online too I see a lot of it too online like if you start reading people's posts and stuff like that if you really find out Like what they're talking about and why they're talking about some of the stuff You could feel it that what revenge tour they're on and how long it's going to probably take them in order to overcome some of these, you know, predetermined outcomes that they're setting themselves up for, you know?

[01:03:39] So what's the advice here? Yeah, it's like a Jim Carrey advice. 

[01:03:44] Yeah. 

[01:03:45] Eldar: You know, go get that money, go get all this stuff. We'll do your revenge tour, go prove everybody wrong with your fucking fake success, you know, because you're going to find out it's not the fucking answer. You know, so yeah, do more as fast as possible, fucking go do it.[01:04:00] 

[01:04:00] Let's practice your theory if you're going to get it right. That's my final 

[01:04:04] thought on that. 

[01:04:05] Toliy: Yeah. Do you, do you, do you remember, I mean, probably don't, 'cause you said you didn't really like the movie, but that mo movie that made you guys watch the, uh, the Princess Bride. Yeah. Do, do you remember? I watched it.

[01:04:17] Okay. Do you remember when the, uh, the, uh, the Amigo Montoya guy, the, uh, yeah. Spaniard, 

[01:04:23] yeah. 

[01:04:24] Toliy: He, uh, he was, he, um, he was talking with, with, with a guy and he was like, yeah, I mean, I gotta figure out what to do in my life. He's like, I've been in the revenge business. For so long that I don't know what, what, like, what, what, what I'm going to do now is like, uh, I don't really have anything to do because he was, his, his whole life was about avenging his dad's death to the six fingered man.

[01:04:44] That's right. And he killed him and now it's like, what now? What? Right. So I feel like, oh, oh, also if you're on this like revenge tour, right. Something 

[01:04:53] Eldar: to do. 

[01:04:54] Toliy: Yeah. It's something to like do. And if you actually like accomplish it, so, so cold, right. [01:05:00] What now? 

[01:05:03] Mike: Well, exactly. So something to do is the same thing.

[01:05:05] You got to keep running. From yourself. Yeah. Keep going. And so you, when you run, when there's nowhere to run, now what do you do? Yeah. Yeah. I feel 

[01:05:13] Toliy: like, um, active revenge is also like the acknowledgement that you feel that there's someone else to blame for what's going on, like in your life. 

[01:05:23] Yeah. 

[01:05:23] Toliy: You know?

[01:05:24] Yeah. 

[01:05:24] Toliy: And like, if, if you were to take accountability or if you're a person who takes responsibility, You can never have the, the, uh, feeling to get like revenge because like, like in, in, it's like more like, I, I, I think it's like purest form, like revenge is you feeling there's someone, someone to blame out there and you need to go get them, 

[01:05:44] you 

[01:05:45] Toliy: know, and that doesn't have to be like one individual, it could just be like a concept.

[01:05:49] It could be a, a portion of society, right? It could be like a group of people that think a particular way, right? It's like you're like by, by [01:06:00] participating in revenge, you're, you're failing to, to, to take accountability. 

[01:06:04] Eldar: You definitely do. Yeah. 

[01:06:05] Toliy: You know, you, you still feel that someone else, um, is the reason for your suffering and not, and not, and not your own.

[01:06:15] Eldar: Yeah. And you convince you, you keep trying to convince yourself of that. 

[01:06:18] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:06:19] Eldar: It's a hard job. 

[01:06:20] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:06:21] Eldar: It's a very hard job 

[01:06:23] Toliy: revenge business is tiring cousin. 

[01:06:26] Eldar: All right Um, thank you guys, this was great Another one in the books 

[01:06:33] You