164. Pitfalls of Unsolicited Advice

What happens when you give or receive unsolicited advice?

In this emotionally charged episode of Dennis Rox podcast, the team dives deep into the complexities of giving and receiving unsolicited advice. Sparked by a heated disagreement between Harris and Toliy, the discussion explores why we feel compelled to offer advice, the consequences of miscommunication, and the personal insecurities that shape our reactions. From workplace dynamics to family struggles, the conversation uncovers raw truths about learning through pain, building trust, and finding purpose. Harris opens up about his challenges with self-doubt and family expectations, leading to a heartfelt moment of gratitude for his supportive team. Join us for a candid exploration of human connection and personal growth.

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Chapters

• 0:43 Discussing Unsolicited Advice
• 9:45 Communication and Misunderstandings
• 21:12 Balancing Professional and Personal Expectations
• 38:14 Handling Criticism and Emotional Responses
• 48:04 The Importance of Communication and Understanding
• 53:37 Family Dynamics and Personal Growth
• 1:08:57 Emotional Moments and Realizations
• 1:18:52 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

Transcript

[00:00:00] Harris: On this week's episode, I took that to Har. I'm not trying to do that at all. That's right. Is this what I'm doing? Yeah. And I'm, I immediately went on the defense and I got That's right. Extremely heated because it's like the fuck, to me, in my eyes, that's one of the worst things you could be called. 

[00:00:13] Eldar: You guys have a acting movie going on, you.

[00:00:15] Eldar: They don't actually know what's actually going on. Keep up with the Kardashians. This is what you guys are doing. You know, like it's all surface level bullshit. There's no actual conversation happening. 

[00:00:25] Harris: We're fucking crying on the podcast show. I do love you guys, but I lose sight what you guys are trying to do.

[00:00:32] Eldar: One day you'll find out why. And if you can solve that riddle, like I said, I think the success is on the other side.

[00:00:43] Eldar: Today's podcast, we're gonna talk about, I guess, by popular demand. We're gonna talk about giving unsolicited advice. Why do we do it? What happens when we do give unsolicited advice? Right? Uh. And, um, the old age argument about from Aism don't teach. When not asked, does it stand, does it work? And, um, should we adhere to that?

[00:01:11] Eldar: Right? And why? So I think that there's gonna, there were plenty of examples in real life, obviously, you know, into interactions, communications with one another, where given advice when it's not asked right, um, or properly solicited, we give this advice and then we get in trouble, right? People get offended, people feel a certain type of way.

[00:01:37] Eldar: Um, and that makes relationships sour a little bit, right? Then we, we realized that we maybe got a little heated, got a little angry, right? Threw some jabs at one another. Hmm. And then we find ourselves feeling guilty from that. And then what happens is we start apologizing for the, for our wrong doings, um, for the things that we've done.

[00:02:00] Eldar: How can we prevent this? Should we prevent it? Should we try to develop, you know, uh, an approach or strategy on how do we give advice when we give advice or not? So that's the question for today. Uh, I think everyone here in this room can relate. John. Now you are our guest. You can listen in. Um, but you don't have to talk.

[00:02:24] Eldar: Yeah, you don't have to talk. Which you don't talk, you know? Yeah. He doesn't talk anyway. So John might be imaginary friend of Harris's. 

[00:02:31] Crispy: You all see me too? 

[00:02:33] Eldar: Well, yeah. One once in a 

[00:02:34] Harris: while. 

[00:02:35] Crispy: Once in a while. 

[00:02:36] Harris: Very, yeah. Very rarely. Yeah. Once in a while he stops in for a little bit and then, yeah. You ever see 

[00:02:40] Crispy: this guy 

[00:02:41] Toliy: talk to the wall?

[00:02:41] Toliy: It's really me. 

[00:02:42] Harris: Alright, cool. So yeah, there was a, a ke kind of a, what'd you call it? An argument. I'll call whatever you call it. What, Mike, what'd you call it? An argument? I, I'm gonna follow this lead. Come on, man. Uh, disagreement. Let's call it a disagreement. Mm-hmm. Like, uh, a little, I don't know if you'd say kind loud.

[00:03:05] Harris: Mm-hmm. Okay. On whose part? The loud part You contributed answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I contributed. You should be contributing. I took something the wrong way. Okay. And yeah, I blew it out of proportion. Mm-hmm. I'm not trying to call him out, you know, 

[00:03:22] Eldar: he 

[00:03:22] Harris: might be sitting here in his room right now. Yeah. He might be sitting 

[00:03:24] Eldar: here.

[00:03:24] Eldar: Yeah. Okay. What'd you learn from that? Does it relate to what, what the topic is for tonight? Yeah, it does. How?

[00:03:39] Harris: Uh, I don't wanna sound like a fucking dick. Oh, wow. Okay. 

[00:03:43] Eldar: Yeah, those usually provide the best insights when you do sound like a dick.

[00:03:51] Harris: I guess it was unsolicited advice. I guess this is the situation that you probably got the idea for the podcast. That's right After the situation. This happens all the time. Yeah. In our lives. 

[00:04:01] Eldar: This is just one of the most recent, uh, experiences that you guys have. I'm guessing. 

[00:04:05] Harris: Yeah. It's just me, right? 

[00:04:06] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:04:07] Eldar: It happens, 

[00:04:08] Eldar: but no, no, no, 

[00:04:08] Eldar: no. Trust me on this one. What happens to everyone 

[00:04:13] Harris: in this room? Everyone. But it doesn't end the same way. 

[00:04:17] Eldar: Correct? It always ends differently, but rightfully so. It should. 

[00:04:22] Harris: But uh, yeah. It was during, uh, I guess, uh, I was dealing with a potential prospect. 

[00:04:29] Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:30] Harris: Uh, and I guess people had different opinions.

[00:04:34] Harris: Mm-hmm. And they tried to voice their opinions. Yeah. When they didn't tell, when they didn't withstand the whole reason behind the way we were going, about the way we were going about. Mm-hmm. That we had something in the works and I didn't. Instead of explaining it and why we're doing it this particular way.

[00:04:54] Harris: Mm-hmm. Uh, I took what he said the wrong way. Okay. And got pissed. And he did. 

[00:05:01] Toliy: No, but I definitely knew what, like, like I wasn't missing hold. Catherine 

[00:05:04] Eldar: has a question before we continue. 

[00:05:06] Katherine: Yeah, I think so. Like, generally like when a friend or a family member shares something with us and sometimes we like, we have that, like that urge to wanna help.

[00:05:16] Katherine: Right. Um, and even if it's unsolicited, I think this is a little bit different because you guys do work together and Totally has been. Like your mentor and training you. Right. So then this kind of is a little bit different because they, they, they work together, but, but also 

[00:05:33] Toliy: it was solicited and I knew the background.

[00:05:36] Toliy: Oh, you're 

[00:05:36] Katherine: saying it was solicited? Yeah, it, it was solicited and 

[00:05:38] Toliy: I knew the background of, uh, I see. Yeah. 

[00:05:42] Katherine: This is a little bit more complicated. 'cause you, you are in a sense like training him or you know, his mentor? Well, no, 

[00:05:49] Toliy: I mean, El, El Elder, it's been 

[00:05:52] Harris: eldar. So me and Eldar have thought, I thought you were, have had something we were doing and okay, it seems to be working better.

[00:05:59] Harris: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. How so? Yeah, no, I'm talking about the, this particular thing. Why did you have to insert that? Well, uh. Because I feel it's better. Okay. Do you have more of a, how do I put it? It's gonna sound a little weird. A HandsOn. Oh my. What? The man, I'm not talking about. Yo, you gotta, it, it weird all the time.

[00:06:19] Harris: You made it weird, Brenda. 

[00:06:20] Toliy: Lead this man. Like, it's more of a 

[00:06:24] Harris: visual learning, I guess is a better way to put it. We're visually learned together, okay. Yes. 

[00:06:28] Toliy: And hands-on, visually learning. 

[00:06:30] Harris: Uh, would you 

[00:06:31] Toliy: stop it, man? What does that even mean? 

[00:06:33] Eldar: What, um, Harris get to the point. 

[00:06:37] Harris: So, uh, what was the words you used when like, uh, I didn't lead with the one year agreement, or I left it out at one point, you know, at a point, right.

[00:06:52] Harris: At first, you're like, well, what was that? Uh, what was the word? Deceitful de Yeah, it was deceitful. 

[00:06:56] Crispy: Okay, 

[00:06:57] Harris: okay. You said, uh, that's deceitful. You know, because then, uh, if you lead with the one year commitment, he's gonna be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You didn't tell me that on the call. Mm-hmm. Which I did this several times.

[00:07:08] Harris: I never got that reaction, you know? All right. Because there's no need to scare them, because I don't say it correctly as of right now that the way I say it, it kind of has a tendency to scare people off a little bit. Like an intimidation. Like it's intimidating. 

[00:07:26] Eldar: But you didn't give this information to him originally?

[00:07:28] Eldar: I did not. Okay. Well, no, but I 

[00:07:29] Toliy: know this. 

[00:07:30] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:31] Toliy: Like, I'm not like missing this information. 

[00:07:32] Eldar: Yeah. But you gave advice based on that information or something else? 

[00:07:35] Toliy: Well, no, like not, not right away. Mentioning it on the first call and emailing it in a quote to me are two different things. Mm-hmm. When you give pricing with somebody and when somebody wants to move forward, if they're then still lacking information at that point.

[00:07:49] Toliy: Right then. Then it's like now someone has already agreed to move forward and let, let's just say that was the only option there. And it just only said monthly. Like after you have someone that's already made a decision and, and then they don't know this at that point, like that, that to me sounds like Okay.

[00:08:05] Toliy: Feels weird. I, first of all, 

[00:08:07] Harris: he, I didn't ask him if he wanted to move forward. I was answering his questions. Okay. At that point, he said I would wanna move forward if it would go to a monthly thing and he go, I would say, okay, let me show you our platform, show you what we have to offer. I like to show the platform first.

[00:08:21] Harris: Okay. So they could see what they're getting. And then I go, you know, just to let you know, there is a one year commitment and a four month optout period. Yeah. But you 

[00:08:29] Toliy: don't show the, like the platform in that example, when someone's ready to move forward. 

[00:08:33] Harris: Why not? Maybe you don't. 

[00:08:35] Toliy: Yeah, maybe you don't. Oh, oh, okay.

[00:08:38] Toliy: I show the platform. Yeah. Well, no, like now it's ready for onboarding. Like ready for start? No. Sure. 

[00:08:42] Eldar: But maybe you don't. But he feels like it. He's, he wants to show the demo. 

[00:08:46] Toliy: No, you could still show the platform for them to get Like, that would be then an onboard, right? 

[00:08:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:51] Toliy: Well, but they already made a 

[00:08:52] Eldar: decision.

[00:08:52] Eldar: Tomato. Tomato. You know, I mean, yeah. They say, they would say, okay, what's the next steps? They're not asking them. 

[00:08:57] Harris: Okay. The next steps is I show you a demo of our platform. Yeah. And then know you book them. Yeah. At this point they're saying, yeah, I wanna move forward, right? Mm-hmm. But I can't just move them forward without not showing them our platform.

[00:09:12] Harris: I know you say onboarding, you know, you show the 

[00:09:14] Toliy: platform too. No, it's completely fine to show the, on the platform to them when they're ready to get started. Yeah. But when they've made a decision to get started and they don't know that something is an annual plan, that to me is when they're missing information.

[00:09:26] Toliy: 'cause now if they made that as assumption with them seeing like that it's monthly. Right. Um, and now then they've already made decision to move forward. Sure, you can show them the platform, but now you need to fill them in that actually, here are the terms, 

[00:09:40] Harris: right? 

[00:09:40] Toliy: Mm-hmm. What if it was a five year contract for, for example, you know, two year contract?

[00:09:45] Toliy: The 

[00:09:45] Eldar: truth is in your defense, Harris, um, right now when prospects or clients call us, uh, they're gonna have a lot of missing information. Yeah. Okay. That's like regular shit. The truth of the matter is Harris has a, has a difficulty communicating the way we work. 

[00:10:03] Toliy: Yeah, no, no, no. I know, and I'm, and I'm I'm saying that I completely understand that on the first call.

[00:10:08] Toliy: Yeah. Right? Like not talking about it. 'cause I know that it can be difficult, but I'm saying is that when you actually have the time and you're typing out a quote, which you have like an relatively infinite amount of time. Do. Yeah. If you already include there, it could be there. Yeah. Then like then the prospect has all the information that they need.

[00:10:24] Toliy: They're ready to move forward. I, there's plenty of people I book be for monthly deals before showing them the platform, but then they say, yes, I'm ready. And then we're like, great. Now we set up an onboarding call, I'll show them the platform, take down their credit card info, and then they get started.

[00:10:39] Toliy: Like, that order is completely fine. I'm not talking, talking about the order. I 

[00:10:41] Harris: understand that. But even with the quote, we had a specific thing we were doing that I was following a lead and you know, I've never had anybody say when I got out of demo, yo whoa, whoa, whoa, you didn't say anything about the one year commitment.

[00:10:56] Harris: I, uh, basically explained to them that there is a one year commitment. You do have a four month Optout period and in those four months you can test it out and hey, if it doesn't work for you, you can let us know, Hey, this isn't working out for me. I'm not getting the results I want. And you can opt out at no penalty and.

[00:11:12] Harris: I've never had a person say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You never told me this. Like, I'm moving forward here. They just say, okay, that, and you've surveyed 

[00:11:21] Eldar: about a thousand clients though. No, I'm just 

[00:11:23] Harris: saying the people I have, I have booked, never 

[00:11:25] Eldar: have red flagged that like, okay. So for what reason do you think that totally is giving you this advice?

[00:11:31] Toliy: Because I haven't experienced, hold on one second. I didn't ask you experience, 

[00:11:34] Eldar: I didn't ask you the question and I would need to do that. 'cause he's going off experience probably, right? What? What he's anticipating is that one, sometimes the client will get you to that process, right? Mm-hmm. He's gonna be like, Hey, you never told me this, right?

[00:11:45] Eldar: Mm-hmm. I personally think that there's value in that as well. Mm-hmm. Right? He's trying to help you out. Mm-hmm. To make sure you don't run into this problem, quote unquote problem. Right. 

[00:11:55] Harris: So the question I have is, who should I be doing because we got rid of that altogether. Right. Well, you should definitely follow 

[00:12:00] Eldar: me.

[00:12:01] Harris: Yeah. 

[00:12:01] Eldar: Uhhuh, I told you this already. Yeah. He agrees. You should definitely follow me. Mm-hmm. However, I did not say to you that totally doesn't know his shit. Yeah, I know. Okay. If I'm level zero mm-hmm. Totally is level nine. Mm-hmm. In sales. Mm-hmm. And I see the vision that you're not ready to understand the way he does work mm-hmm.

[00:12:21] Eldar: The way he works. Mm-hmm. Right. That's why we're taking it from level zero. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? We're taking slowly, slow steps. Mm-hmm. Right. I think when, if a client ever comes back to you and says, Hey, like you never told me about the annual thing, I think you will naturally be curious as to how to learn, how to explain to them that it, it is an annual commitment without needing to scare them or scare yourself in the process.

[00:12:42] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Okay. Because when you were leading with that, right? Mm-hmm. You were, the way you were speaking for them, it's like you were scared for the client. Right? Like, it's a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. There's reasons behind why it should be annual in the first place. Yeah. You know what I mean? And if you can't conference, well, that's 

[00:12:58] Harris: why you get a cheaper price as well.

[00:13:00] Harris: You also get a cheaper price. 

[00:13:01] Eldar: There's, there's definitely benefits, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, for them and for us. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? But you're not there yet in order to communicate that confidently. That's why we removed it. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Totally. Obviously knows this. Mm-hmm. He understands this.

[00:13:16] Eldar: Right. But he still wants you to prevent certain pitfalls, which is what we're talking about here. Mm-hmm. Right. The topic is on why. Right. Um, potentially prematurely giving advice when the person's not ready for the specific advice. Mm. Right. So, um, the important factor here is for Harris to actually go through the process of the client hitting him over the head and saying, Hey, like, you didn't tell me about the annual thing.

[00:13:46] Toliy: No, no, for sure. And like, I, the, like I told you yesterday, like, um, you see value in it. I, yeah. I see value in it. And, um, um, I see even like, I, I, I also understand, I. When it comes to, well, well, I mean, I would like to get to a point where I can be conscious enough to understand where the person is at that moment and like going forward, not provide like, like advice.

[00:14:14] Toliy: I 

[00:14:14] Eldar: think that, I think that if you examined yesterday's, um, interaction, if you look back at the thing now, we should look back at the thing. Actually, I'm gonna pull the footage. Um, you will see that you had a very specific, um, request from them, right? From Mike and Harris, or Harris in that moment. And I think that you went further level, step 2, 3, 4, 5, trying to really drive a point.

[00:14:41] Toliy: Yeah, probably. 

[00:14:42] Eldar: And Harris at that moment was only looking for like, look, level zero here. You know, the 

[00:14:46] Mike: kid was excited to make the sale. Yeah. He's already attached, like for him, he doesn't want anything. But giving the fastest route to get the same money in my, on my account, quote unquote, you know, because for him getting a sale is such a huge celebration.

[00:15:00] Mike: Um, oh no, it's a boost of confidence. Okay, fine. Yeah. So such a get it right Mike of confidence, it's not a celebration. Um, and and for him, anything that's gonna like, sway that route for him, it's like, no, no, it's an attack. It's, it's crazy attack. Yeah. 

[00:15:20] Eldar: Especially if you use the word deceitful, right? He's not trying to be deceitful and if he is, it's definitely not on purpose.

[00:15:28] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. No, for, for for sure. And I wasn't saying that he was intentionally trying to be, I. 

[00:15:33] Harris: Well, I took it that way. That's why I said, there you go. I, I misunderstood where he was coming from that That's right. And I took it personally. And to me that was like stab. 

[00:15:41] Eldar: Yes. Yes. So the whole thing is right, I think when it comes to this topic at least, right?

[00:15:46] Eldar: Um, if you are on the side of giving advice, I think that evaluating and really seeing things for what they are in that moment, to see what you can give or what you can give is a very important, uh, skill to have. Right? Like Mike said in that moment, Harris had a very specific attachment, right? And the specific attachment comes from what, right.

[00:16:10] Eldar: His insecurities right. About himself. About him being adequate at his job, um, pressure from his dad, right? Who's constantly pressuring him about the job, right? Potential, maybe quota that he set up in his own mind to meet, that he wants to meet, to feel that he's worthy of doing sales, right? So there's a lot of things that are in play here, right?

[00:16:34] Eldar: And there obviously are the stressors, right? So for him to make the sale, right, let's just say on quote unquote, with whatever means possible in the moment, right, is a big deal. And that is why sometimes, right when me, you have conversations around sales, right? Where you want to hook the person. I give lower prices, for example, sometimes for that reason, because I realize that, you know, Harris can't justify the price yet, you know?

[00:17:00] Eldar: So I'll go and I'll give, okay? Like if that's, that's the attachment, that's what it is. No problem. Sure. We're gonna give a little bit lower price here in order to get the deal. 

[00:17:09] Harris: So are you making money off these deals? 

[00:17:13] Eldar: This is level two. 

[00:17:14] Harris: I know, but are you or am I just giving people fucking shit for free 

[00:17:20] Eldar: right now?

[00:17:20] Eldar: Everything that you're doing is pretty much a charity work from us to you and to the world. 

[00:17:26] Harris: So I'm not really making sales is basically what you're saying. Well, right now you are learning so you ain't 

[00:17:32] Eldar: making shit off of what I'm doing basically. Absolutely not. We're definitely not profitable when it comes to you Uhhuh.

[00:17:38] Eldar: Yeah. This is okay. You're not 

[00:17:40] Harris: even making the dollar. 

[00:17:41] Eldar: No. The amount of time that totally puts in you, the amount of time that I put in you, the amount of all the other things that revolve around sales. No, we're in the hole with you, but this is okay. 

[00:17:55] Harris: What the fuck, man? I thought you were making money off these sales man.

[00:17:59] Harris: Well, money's coming in, but like I get that, but what the end of the day, I'm like if you, if you at the end of the, even if you're not talking about like my salary or what you pay me. Yeah. I'm asking at the end of the day. Is the sales putting money in the bank, or are we just giving these people shit away for break?

[00:18:16] Eldar: But what, what does that matter if the truth of the matter is that you are still net negative 

[00:18:20] Harris: because that's, I, I get that, but I feel like, you know, if that's the case, fucking hell, what the fuck 

[00:18:25] Eldar: does there's, can it be a point where you're gonna be able to supersede that? Right. And make a lot more Because, because, because right now, definitely don't, I'm like, 

[00:18:34] Harris: what the fuck am I doing here?

[00:18:35] Harris: You're definitely not 

[00:18:35] Eldar: breaking even here, dude. I know. So we're trying to kickstart your engines, dude. What do you think this is right now? This is charity work. I, I know, you know from us, I get that, but we're trying to secure our spot in heaven, bro. I, what the fuck? 

[00:18:50] Harris: What? Heaven. Well, well, you know what I'm saying?

[00:18:55] Harris: I, I know right now you're in the hole because you're paying me. I haven't brought it in. Yeah. What I, you know, even what I make after everything's deducted. Correct. 

[00:19:02] Toliy: My mom always tell my, I'm always telling us, my dad, that my dad's salary is barely enough for cold cuts and bread. There you go. 

[00:19:09] Eldar: But they do eat a lot 

[00:19:10] Mike: of 

[00:19:10] Eldar: Coke s Right.

[00:19:10] Eldar: 'cause he's, he's, yeah. He's probably a lot more than, yeah. Everyone else. And he can't even make his own thing. We can try to quantify what it means to break even when it comes to you as a salesperson. Mm-hmm. We can try this. This is gonna be a very difficult task. I would have to definitely employ Mike and find out all the variables that make up your role in tone, right?

[00:19:31] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Um, well, I'm not sure if you need that number. If you want that number, I can give it to you to get a clear picture. Well, whatever 

[00:19:37] Harris: we need to do to what? Yeah. 

[00:19:38] Eldar: What do you need to do, Uhhuh in order to break even. Mm-hmm. Okay. If you really want that number, we can. So what you're 

[00:19:45] Harris: saying is what I need to bring in to break even, 

[00:19:48] Eldar: correct?

[00:19:48] Eldar: Mm-hmm. As a salesman. Mm-hmm. Right? In order to break even. And obviously then no company is trying to hire new people in order to break even, you know this, right? Yeah. They're trying to make money. I know. Okay. 

[00:20:00] Harris: But I, I, I don't know, because sometimes I'm like, I wanna know what I need to do. Okay. How much I need to do to succeed.

[00:20:06] Harris: There you go. Succeed. There you go. 

[00:20:08] Mike: You want an exact number or a rough number is gonna Do you 

[00:20:11] Eldar: Yeah,

[00:20:14] Eldar: because you're going on some numbers right? In your own mind or your dad told you. Like, what, what numbers are you going off of?

[00:20:24] Harris: I'm going off like a number. I want to, I set for myself. 

[00:20:27] Crispy: Okay. Yeah. 

[00:20:28] Harris: Which right now I'm thinking, I keep thinking it's not, it's not gonna happen. 

[00:20:32] Harris: Uhhuh 

[00:20:34] Harris: ever or this week, like in sales Uhhuh, like by the end of the year. Okay. What year 

[00:20:39] Toliy: do 

[00:20:39] Harris: you follow calendar? 

[00:20:40] Toliy: What? And what's the 

[00:20:40] Harris: number? Don't laugh, man. It's gonna be outrageous.

[00:20:45] Harris: A hundred thousand in sales. 

[00:20:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:49] Eldar: But that's very 

[00:20:49] Eldar: doable. 

[00:20:49] Eldar: Yeah. It's not outrageous me. It's not outrageous 

[00:20:52] Mike: at all. Me. 

[00:20:53] Eldar: This will be 

[00:20:53] Mike: your second year. 

[00:20:54] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely not what a salesperson should be bringing in. 

[00:21:00] Harris: No, but it's a goal. It's, except for myself. Yeah. I even wanted to do like 152, but I said in my, what I'm doing right now, I don't think that's gonna happen by the end of the year.

[00:21:08] Harris: Okay, fine. Fine. 

[00:21:11] Eldar: Alright. So what were we saying 

[00:21:15] Mike: Harris' thing about the wins that he needs. The wins that he gets from this? 

[00:21:20] Eldar: Yes. So attachments that are in place for Harris, for example. Right. Sometimes I think supersede the advice that is needed in order for him to level up.

[00:21:32] Eldar: Yeah. And identifying those, I think is the key to be able to, um.

[00:21:42] Eldar: Always line yourself up in such a way where you're not shooting in, in the dark. When it comes to your advice, is it not clear to you what he's operating out of? 

[00:21:53] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, overall, it's clear to me and like, like overall, like I definitely, um, like he's not coming to you and saying like, Hey, 

[00:22:00] Eldar: I'm trying to figure out what's the right thing to do here.

[00:22:04] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:22:05] Eldar: Right. 

[00:22:06] Toliy: Yeah. Some, sometimes it's like, um, like, um, difficult at times to interpret because some, sometimes what someone is like saying is not actually what they want. Um, correct. And in the moment it's hard to, uh, interpret that. Like someone could say like, Hey, like, um, I like, I'd like to be happy, for example.

[00:22:28] Toliy: Right. Yeah. And then like, you can start maybe asking some questions and maybe, um, giving, giving that person some things to do. And then the person also runs like. No, I don't wanna do that. Yeah. Right. They're like, but wait, you just said that you wanna be happy. 

[00:22:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:44] Toliy: Right. So like, um, 

[00:22:48] Eldar: well, that's the thing.

[00:22:49] Eldar: That's why I think that before you go into right areas where, for example, that are generally undefined, they're not defined, right? Like, happiness, you don't really actually specify what is it that both parties mean. You will have a misunderstanding. Oh, 

[00:23:05] Toliy: well, yeah. 

[00:23:07] Eldar: You know? Yeah, yeah. That and then, um, well, like, like you didn't come in into the think asking him like, Hey Harris, right?

[00:23:14] Eldar: I'm pretty sure Ray, I'm gonna, I'm doing a guessing game here. You didn't come in there asking like, Hey, what are you trying to accomplish? 

[00:23:21] Toliy: No. Yeah. 

[00:23:22] Eldar: No. Okay. Yeah. Alright. If you did, what would the answer be? What if you came in and said, Hey, uh, Harris, what are you trying to accomplish here? 

[00:23:31] Harris: What in that specific, uh, 

[00:23:32] Eldar: situation?

[00:23:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:23:36] Harris: All I was trying to accomplish. Mm-hmm. Was figure out which plan he wanted to go with. He said he wanted to move forward. 

[00:23:42] Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:43] Harris: I wrote up an email Yeah. That you ended up telling me. Okay. And it sounds good to send, but I showed it to Toley just to make sure it sounded all right, you know? Mm-hmm. It was, you know.

[00:23:52] Harris: Yeah. Good. 

[00:23:54] Eldar: And based on what you did do, sir, you already knew which plan he was signing up for? You told me this yesterday. 

[00:23:59] Harris: Yeah. I had a feeling what plan he was gonna sign up for. I even told you, see, I feel like it's gonna go towards the one time, but I did give him two quotes. 

[00:24:06] Eldar: Fine. Stop right there.

[00:24:07] Eldar: Mm-hmm. All based on that information. Why was the Yeah, I should have, 

[00:24:10] Toliy: yeah, I should have just, uh, seen it, seen the email made grammatical sense, for example. Yeah. And then just left it there. Yeah. Why didn't you, because I feel like, um, like if someone's asking me a question, right? Mm-hmm. And basically, let's just say like, uh, um, I.

[00:24:30] Toliy: They're saying, Hey, like they already pre pre preface it by, by by saying like, um, once I hit the stop sign, do I make a left or a right? Right? Mm-hmm. And then like, I already know what's gonna happen at both of those ways. 

[00:24:44] Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:45] Toliy: Before that, right? Yeah. So then like, yeah, I feel inclined to, to go further than Why ju just ju Yeah.

[00:24:52] Toliy: No, no. That now I understand that, that, um, if there is a, a, a, uh, scary monster, uh, uh, like either left or right. Mm-hmm. Or something bad, left or right. Need to just let the person go. The thing is the scary monster, right? 

[00:25:05] Eldar: Like the scary monster part is interesting that the choice of words that you use in order to describe what you're trying to prevent, um, to me it's not a scary monster at all.

[00:25:14] Toliy: Well, no, no. Overall it's learning. Yeah. Yeah. It's the opportunity to, to, uh, learn. Right. So 

[00:25:19] Eldar: why, 

[00:25:19] Toliy: why, 

[00:25:19] Eldar: why did 

[00:25:20] Toliy: you choose 

[00:25:20] Eldar: those words to describe 

[00:25:21] Toliy: it? Yeah. I don't know. 

[00:25:24] Eldar: Why do you think he chooses those words to describe that experience that you need to go through in order to learn 

[00:25:29] Harris: the monster? Yeah. Is it, uh, oh, 

[00:25:31] Mike: sorry.

[00:25:33] Harris: From past experience? I don't know 

[00:25:35] Mike: really. Oh, Mike? Yeah. My question, my thing is he's trying to prevent, uh, the scary monster. No, but no, but the thing is that's what he said. He learned this mm-hmm. Through his own pain. Okay. But he's not associating it, that he has to put his hand in the fire mm-hmm. To learn that it's hot.

[00:25:52] Mike: Mm-hmm. He just wants to not let Harris mm-hmm. Put his hand in the fire. Why not? Because he forgot that he had to do that on, uh, himself. What do you mean, forgot, but that that's not the reason to tell him to, to, to not learn the same way. Well, yeah, if you already know why, if you already know, they'll at least path the resistance.

[00:26:11] Mike: You want that person to take it. Right? So why does he not want him to take it? He doesn't value the putting the hand in the fire for himself. I don't think he actually values 

[00:26:19] Toliy: that approach. Right. Well, no, I, I, yeah, I guess at times, maybe like, I've experienced the pain and I went through the trial and tribulations, and I want to give the opportunity, like the opportunity to the person to, to say like, okay, hey, like, hey, like, um, I'm gonna put my ego down mm-hmm.

[00:26:37] Toliy: And not learn through, um, like the hand in the fire approach. Mm-hmm. And then I'm gonna actually have a conversation and hear you out and go back and forth on it. But, uh, do people 

[00:26:47] Mike: ge generally learn from that 

[00:26:48] Toliy: approach? No. No, they generally don't. Oh, okay. No, 

[00:26:50] Mike: a very low percentage people rally. Right? Yeah.

[00:26:53] Toliy: Yeah. No, no, no. I'm, I'm, I'm in a hundred percent agree here. Yeah. So, yeah, there, there, there's no reason for me to what No be doing. There 

[00:27:00] Eldar: is a reason. Well, no, I'm saying 

[00:27:02] Toliy: that there is no reason for 

[00:27:03] Eldar: me going forward to be doing it. I agree. Fine. You know, fine. Right. But why do we do it as people, Harris, right?

[00:27:08] Eldar: Let's do this. Right, Harris, let's go back to a simpler example, right? Mm-hmm. Remove this example. Mm-hmm. Remember your mom, Harris, I need a hundred bucks. 

[00:27:19] Harris: Okay. Okay. 

[00:27:20] Eldar: Remember what you said to me? I said, okay, what do you do? I, I gave you the advice. Mm-hmm. What'd I say? Give it to her. Give it to her and hold her accountable for the May 1st deadline.

[00:27:31] Eldar: Correct? Yeah. All right. An hour passes or maybe half an hour passes. You come to me and you say, what? I,

[00:27:39] Harris: I wanted to know if it was my sister-in-law. Mm-hmm. Asking for her to ask me for the money. Yeah. You wanted to 

[00:27:47] Eldar: inquire with your mom. Mm-hmm. Right. And start something. 

[00:27:50] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:51] Eldar: What was my advice? 

[00:27:52] Eldar: Don't 

[00:27:52] Eldar: do it. Why?

[00:27:59] Eldar: Why and why did you want to do that? Why did you want to go educate, you know, or Because I didn't want warn about something. Why do you want to go and, and give advice?

[00:28:15] Harris: This is what we're talking about, Harris. Well, for me it was because if she, if it was for her, like my sister-in-law. Mm-hmm. I want her to ask me my herself. Mm-hmm. Why? Because I don't like the go around. Why do you like to do the go around? No comment. I plead the fifth. What you say? 

[00:28:36] Mike: I 

[00:28:36] Harris: like it. 

[00:28:37] Mike: I do not recall, sir.

[00:28:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:28:39] Eldar: You know, see, you wanted to start something and most likely right now, thinking, because you didn't do it right, I hope you didn't. Most likely. If you did go that route, how would it ended up? Let's imagine it. 

[00:28:56] Harris: You probably feel offended. 

[00:28:57] Eldar: There you go. When people feel offended, what happens? They start a fight.

[00:29:01] Eldar: Mm-hmm. They start becoming angry. Right. They start barking back. 

[00:29:06] Eldar: Yeah. You see that, right? Yeah. 

[00:29:10] Eldar: So this is a simple example that's personal to you where you Right. Had a choice. Yeah. Give the advice and start going offensive all the way back and say, you know what? It's okay. A lot of times we don't take that route.

[00:29:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:25] Eldar: Why not? 

[00:29:28] Eldar: What's wrong with us?

[00:29:32] Eldar: I don't know. You want to educate, 

[00:29:35] Harris: right? Like you or educate. You wanna stop it from happening. Yeah. Why 

[00:29:40] Mike: are we hippos? Oh, we crazy hippos. Well, 

[00:29:42] Harris: maybe you're afraid. Uh, someone's gonna, I think that's what's happening. He wants to like, uh, prevent someone from being used in Totally said the same thing. Right.

[00:29:51] Eldar: If you ask him Right. He's gonna say, yeah, I don't want him to go through it. I went through it. Yeah. So, to go through what? 

[00:29:58] Mike: Through the pains. Oh, right. Uhhuh. No, he wants to hit her over the head because she went around her his back. Yeah. But you see what he's saying. Uh, there's a reason why he was. Yeah.

[00:30:07] Mike: But it 

[00:30:07] Harris: turns out it was not the case. So what Aaron? What he said, so basically. My sister-in-law called, so I can speak 

[00:30:17] Mike: the kitty 

[00:30:18] Harris: kiddos. Yeah. The, the kids were pretending they were talking to Uncle Harris. Mm-hmm. On the phone. So Brittany called because they wanted to speak to Uncle Harris. 

[00:30:26] Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:27] Harris: I was working, but later on in the day, my mom hit me up.

[00:30:31] Harris: Mm-hmm. And I'm like, this is a little suspicious here. 

[00:30:35] Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:35] Harris: Because she was trying to call me in the morning. 

[00:30:37] Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:39] Harris: And then I got this message. So I'm like, and the specific reason I thought this was because I let this person borrow money that was never paid back. So I thought it was like a go around.

[00:30:52] Eldar: Mm-hmm. So, and if it was go around, so what, are there not good lessons to learn on both sides? 

[00:31:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:03] Eldar: But we always want to change the trajectory of how things supposed to play out. Right? Yeah. Why are we control freaks?

[00:31:14] Eldar: Why? I don't know. I can't answer that. I think there's like a, why do we insert ourselves constantly 

[00:31:19] Mike: in this 

[00:31:19] Eldar: nonsense? 

[00:31:20] Mike: I think there's like this weird thing of, uh, that happens. We want to hold people to a standard that we don't hold ourselves to. And I think, like, this is a, maybe an example, at least the way I think about it, is that he wants to hold her this, uh, Britney mm-hmm.

[00:31:36] Mike: To a higher standard. Yeah. But he doesn't hold himself to that standard. But why? But like, it almost 

[00:31:41] Eldar: shows 

[00:31:42] Mike: that we know, 

[00:31:44] Eldar: we only know what's right if it doesn't apply to us, which is, well, the thing is crazy phenomenon. 

[00:31:49] Mike: The thing is, uh. It's not favorable to us to apply the truth a lot of times to ourselves, but 'cause in the moments that when we 

[00:31:57] Eldar: need to apply 

[00:31:58] Mike: it, 

[00:31:58] Eldar: we have attachments, we actually attachments to something else.

[00:32:00] Eldar: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 

[00:32:02] Toliy: Yeah. But I feel like ev everyone I think also feels that, um, in all these different types of examples, that their situation is different. Everyone always says that, 

[00:32:11] Eldar: well, it's only different is because one is objective, one is subjective experience, right? 

[00:32:17] Toliy: No, but at the top what I'm saying, like they, they feel to themselves that it's different.

[00:32:21] Toliy: And if you try to like call the, I don't think they're even processing 

[00:32:24] Mike: that, 

[00:32:25] Toliy: uh, like, well, no, like that in 

[00:32:25] Mike: the moment is like, he's not thinking about like, I'm gonna do justice towards her, but not be just to myself. 

[00:32:31] Toliy: No, no. People, like, if you are like, if you are like a, a uh, common like thing that people say, well, like, well no, this is different.

[00:32:37] Toliy: Or like, well, no, that's different. Like if, if you ask 'em about it, if 

[00:32:40] Mike: you ask them 

[00:32:40] Toliy: after the fact Yeah. Their, their their thing. It's, it's different. And I feel like. Not that they kind of just, but you don't believe 

[00:32:46] Eldar: that Totally. What? You don't, you don't believe that the, the testimony is actually right. 

[00:32:49] Toliy: Oh, no, no.

[00:32:50] Toliy: I'm telling you what, what the person feels and why. Yeah. They, they, they, they justify like the justification, um, of these different things is the proof that you're saying that Well, no, your situation is different. Yeah. That that's why like, it doesn't apply to this, or it shouldn't apply to this. Mm-hmm.

[00:33:06] Toliy: And they can give you whatever reasons that they feel, make, makes sense for that. Does it actually make sense? No. No. Okay. No, but they still have the conviction that it's different, 

[00:33:16] Mike: but I don't think, but, but do you think that's process is happening in the moment when he's evaluating this proposal thing?

[00:33:23] Mike: Um, no. No, it's not. No, you don't go this. So it only comes out when the person gets challenged, like, why don't you No. Like, 

[00:33:29] Toliy: that, that general understanding is, is, is deeply buried in the subconscious and it never like, uh, comes out. But 

[00:33:36] Mike: is that the mo motivating or like, uh, factor deciding factor that that's going through the person's mind on a.

[00:33:44] Mike: Um, in those, in that moment when he wanted to. Well, no, it, 

[00:33:47] Toliy: it's not going through their mind if it's on a subconscious like a No, 

[00:33:49] Eldar: but it, but it is because, uh, at the end of the day, he asked me for advice. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So there was something in him where it says, look, what's the right thing to do here?

[00:33:57] Eldar: Because I'm in a sticky situation here. I can need to go left or right. Elder help me. And I told him, no, just give it to her. Forget about it. You know what I asked for? You did. Yeah. You asked for the device. Right. And, but then, and second time when he is like, yo, this is like, probably felt like unnatural, was like, what am I doing here?

[00:34:12] Eldar: So it's uncomfortable, you know? Yeah. Should I go and like, so I came to him. The thing is he came 

[00:34:17] Mike: to me again. He asked for, but he asked for the device. Uh, did he ask for a detailed explanation why this device applies? He probably didn't, but nonetheless, I gave him the answer. He, he wasn't happy with the advice because he still had the desire.

[00:34:29] Mike: He doesn't understand it. Yeah. Right. He had the desire to hit over the head, but that's why he came back second time. He came back second time and I explained it to you. Yeah. And then said, this is why we're doing what we're doing. 

[00:34:38] Harris: Yeah. 

[00:34:38] Mike: And did it work? 

[00:34:39] Harris: Yeah, it did. You calmed down and then I, I called. Mike was in the car.

[00:34:43] Harris: Mm-hmm. We, we CI called her in the car. Yeah. He was saying some 

[00:34:47] Mike: weird stuff. 

[00:34:47] Harris: Yeah. What's wrong with you, man? But, uh, Mike was in the car. I called her back first. She sent me to voicemail. I'm like, all right. And she got a mouth on her, bro. I, I called her again. She got a big mouth. 

[00:34:57] Mike: This is 

[00:34:57] Harris: crazy, 

[00:34:58] Mike: man. 

[00:34:58] Harris: I think 

[00:34:59] Eldar: you offered her to send you her nippy in order to pay her back at the debt.

[00:35:02] Eldar: No. Lemme check. 

[00:35:04] Harris: Lemme check. What you doing, man? No, uh, thanks a lot, man. Please check. Yeah. Okay. But, uh, I, I started talking to her and she explained that the, the girls were pretending to speak to Uncle Harris with play phones. And, uh, she asked them if they wanted her to call me, and she did, but I was working, so 

[00:35:28] Harris: mm-hmm.

[00:35:29] Harris: I had a misunderstanding of something. 

[00:35:34] Harris: Okay. 

[00:35:35] Harris: I assumed something. Okay. But to me it was suspicious. Okay. Because after I didn't pick up, 

[00:35:40] Harris: yeah. 

[00:35:40] Harris: I got the, the text. Yeah. Okay. And it, 

[00:35:43] Eldar: well, sure, your paranoid mind also gave you certain things to do, but Okay. But yeah, but maybe this is not a great example, but nonetheless, it's an example where you wanted to teach, right?

[00:35:53] Eldar: Yeah. You wanted to scold, you wanted to warn or whatever, your mom or whoever who wanted 

[00:35:57] Mike: to catch her. 

[00:35:58] Eldar: Yeah. You wanted to catch someone, right? Yeah. Um, but ultimately that type of thing, if you did proceed with that, probably would've landed you in the same place where you guys landed with totally that day.

[00:36:09] Eldar: Right? I think that probably, uh, both parties, at least in that situation, were guilty. You didn't properly communicate. I. You know, so totally all the things that you actually wanted to accomplish. Totally. Didn't do a good job probing to find out, hey, what is it you're trying to accomplish here? Finding out what your attachments were and giving you that advice in accordance to that.

[00:36:28] Eldar: Right. He's trying to take you to a higher level, which at this point you, you are like, yeah, I don't want this. 

[00:36:33] Harris: And it's also, no, it's also, well, no. What A little too much for me to handle. Correct. Like, I can't understand. Correct. At that point. Yeah. 'cause there's a lot of information being shoved into my head.

[00:36:44] Yeah, 

[00:36:45] Mike: yeah. 

[00:36:45] Harris: That, that's right. I can't take it. How compromised 

[00:36:48] Mike: are you in that moment? Like now in retrospect? Like how compromised were you that like you just wanted to focus on getting that deal and nothing else he didn't care about, like learning or trying to figure out any other things. Where he was coming 

[00:37:01] Harris: from.

[00:37:02] Harris: Huh? Where he was coming from? 

[00:37:04] Eldar: Yeah. Like you were completely No, you 

[00:37:06] Harris: were coming 

[00:37:06] Eldar: from Yeah. He's asking you how hard was your attachment? Yeah. In order to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish in that moment that you were Oh, sure. 

[00:37:13] Harris: It was large. I knew the guy was. This is a high chance he's moving forward.

[00:37:17] Harris: Mm-hmm. But I also knew I was trying to respond to him. Mm-hmm. So we could get the ball rolling. That's right. Right. Yeah. Of course. The more I make him wait That's right. The longer it's gonna take for him to actually time, time feels all deals. Because you gotta understand, when I was communicating with this guy, I emailed him back and it took like two days for him to respond to that email.

[00:37:38] Harris: Yeah. 

[00:37:38] Harris: Yeah. 

[00:37:38] Harris: So I was trying to get the ball rolling. He seems like he wanted to get this done, he wanted to take the next steps. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I was very, uh, focused on getting this deal closed, getting the invoice out, getting everything set up. That's right. You know? That's right. So you were compromised. I might've been compromised, yeah.

[00:37:55] Harris: Okay. Fair. 

[00:37:58] Eldar: Fair. And I think that, um, that right there is a key, um, indicator that you gotta be careful. 

[00:38:07] Toliy: No what not. I, I, I, I mean, I can tell, tell you that I understand, but obviously I need to implement the right thing. So I definitely don't want to be put myself in the situation I was in yesterday. I definitely don't want to be spoken to like I was spoken to yesterday.

[00:38:22] Toliy: That's right. You know? That's right. Um, 

[00:38:25] Mike: it's a very difficult to spot, um, right. 

[00:38:29] Eldar: Yes. He, no, it's not 

[00:38:31] Mike: difficult 

[00:38:31] Eldar: at all. It's not difficult for me. It's not difficult at all for me. It's 

[00:38:33] Mike: not. Yeah. Well, you have a, I 

[00:38:34] Eldar: see. I, I give the person enough attention, Uhhuh, to find out exactly where they're at, and I will adjust in accordance for that specific reality in order to get exactly what I want out of it.

[00:38:46] Eldar: I don't always get that. Mm-hmm. Obviously, you know, I'd obviously like to stretch them and get even more. Of course. Right. That's like a celebration. 

[00:38:53] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:54] Eldar: But I'll take, I, I'll settle a lot of the times. Mm-hmm. Because I know that the individual is compromised. 

[00:39:00] Harris: Mm-hmm. That's hard. You, how do you I have a very hard time.

[00:39:03] Harris: I. I ever since we're starting to work here, have very hard time. I don't wanna sound like a dick. Mm-hmm. But learning from Toley. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Because the way he taught 

[00:39:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:18] Harris: Was he'd give me so much information Yeah. That my head wouldn't be able to com comprehend. Yeah. What he's trying to say. 

[00:39:27] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:39:27] Toliy: Five plus 5, 17, 10 

[00:39:33] Harris: times five. But I had a very ti hard time doing it. But on top of that, he, there was two things going on here. Yeah. That kind of made me like, get heated. Okay. That's right. Yeah. He shoved me information down my throat, and then he's, he was saying he was accusing you Yeah. Accusing me of shit.

[00:39:51] Harris: Yeah. Yeah. So then my mind started racing like, what the fuck? Yeah. This is not what I'm doing. Yeah. I don't see it that way. Mm-hmm. I'm doing what I, what I'm being taught. Yeah. Why is he coming at me like this? That's right. 

[00:40:02] Mike: Also think there's like this, and I 

[00:40:03] Harris: immediately went onto the defense like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:40:06] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. I, I actually think that Harris Harris as an, a specimen or the amoeba that we're trying to observe

[00:40:18] Eldar: the what, the amoeba that 

[00:40:20] Mike: we're trying to observe, 

[00:40:21] Eldar: right? I don't know what that is. It is actually a perfect, like, uh, I wanna say Guinea pig, right? For, for the lack of the words to be able to practice, um, ourselves against someone, you know, because he's very sensitive. Thanks. 

[00:40:37] Mike: Um, 

[00:40:38] Harris: I admitted that with Mike.

[00:40:39] Harris: We had a conversation about this. Is he, uh, am 

[00:40:41] Mike: I re releasing the title of Ish to him or no, or not yet? I'll take it.

[00:40:49] Mike: Yo. Thanks. Letting me out, man. Yes. I love it. 

[00:40:52] Katherine: Are you best trying to say he wanted, he wanted the nickname? I I had a conversation 

[00:40:56] Harris: with this. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not something I like to admit. Yeah. That I'm sensitive. Yeah. But I talked to Mike and I was like, listen, uh, I talked to him about after this whole thing mm-hmm.

[00:41:08] Harris: In certain situations where it's like, I take things too much to heart. Yeah. I can't let it roll off. That's right. Which I, I can't believe I do this now. Mm-hmm. 'cause like I said, when I was bullied in high school and shit like that, when I was bullied in school, yeah. I learned how to roll off. But this hits different.

[00:41:25] Harris: Different, yeah. And it's from your dad's. That's why I bullied him. No, you didn't. But uh, you know, this is different. Yeah. And like that day, I don't go do that. Often. 

[00:41:42] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:42] Harris: And when I saw that side, I'm like, what's wrong with here? We, no, here we go again. Yeah. You felt bad because I, I started, I got that shit into con in control.

[00:41:51] Mike: Mm-hmm. The second, um, part of the thing is also interesting to me is why did he get so offended at being called Delusional? Delusional delusion And what you talking ful Dece deceitful. Yeah. If he's not actually deceitful, not, not necessarily related, related to this thing, because I know he's compromised, but in general a lot of, I think 'cause that's 

[00:42:12] Eldar: not what he was 

[00:42:13] Eldar: doing at 

[00:42:13] Mike: all.

[00:42:14] Mike: Yeah. Right. So, so I felt like I 

[00:42:15] Harris: was being accused of something. Yeah. Terrible. Yeah. Terrible. Yeah. And to me, and I think I was an appropriate reaction. I took that to heart and it was like, I'm not trying to do that at all. That's right. If this is. Is this what I'm doing? Yeah. And I'm, I immediately went on the defense and I got That's right.

[00:42:29] Harris: Extremely heated because it's like the fuck, to me, in my eyes, that's one of the worst things you could be called. There you go. Especially when you're running for president in the future. Yeah. Well that wasn't really on my mind at the time. No. Was like 

[00:42:38] Katherine: taking care of everyone in the office. 

[00:42:40] Mike: Hmm. I think he only scared totally.

[00:42:41] Mike: I wasn't here. Maybe terror. He scared the Tara Totally. But he also, I thought we were gonna have to call a paramedic. 

[00:42:46] Harris: Did he had a Yeah. Yeah. My heart, if he turned white in his, my, my heart rate went super off at that point where my, my, it's not the first time it's happened. My left arm started being 

[00:42:55] Eldar: top.

[00:42:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:42:56] Harris: The first time it's, but if you were to 

[00:42:57] Eldar: die, if you were to die for a cause, this would be a good one. No. Standing up for what? Right. Standing up for 

[00:43:02] Katherine: yourself. 

[00:43:02] Eldar: For yourself. Well, I, and catching a heart attack. The 

[00:43:04] Crispy: wrong, did he turn all green when he got back? He was 

[00:43:07] Eldar: white. I 

[00:43:08] Katherine: did it. Would he be on record for the youngest person to have a heart attack 

[00:43:11] Harris: for the right, for the right reason.

[00:43:12] Harris: For the right reason, yes. Probably for the right reason. I don't think that possible was younger, but, uh, but you know. Me. That's like one of the worst things you can be called uhhuh. Deceitful, like, yeah. Like you're, yeah. And you know, on top of that, I also have my dad in my mind that like, every salesman is, has no soul's.

[00:43:33] Harris: Like, what the fuck? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like that was one of the worst things to be called deceitful. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 

[00:43:41] Toliy: But you can be doing something deceitful, for example, and not know it. Or like, it doesn't need to be that you're a deceitful person. 

[00:43:47] Harris: Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. I took it the wrong way.

[00:43:50] Harris: I felt like you, you were calling me a deceitful person. And at that point, like I had to go into my defense and I got extremely heated doing it. That 

[00:43:58] Mike: the question was the, maybe it's not related to this, but if somebody says like, oh, you're a liar and you're, and you're not a liar, then why do you care if that person's wrong and you know who you are, who you're not?

[00:44:09] Mike: May, like I said, it might not apply to this thing, but I, I like, you know. And that's also an interesting thing. Well, YA lot of times people will defend stuff that like, okay, that's not the case. If's not, not true. Who cares? If it's true then Okay, then I, I get it. That's hard to process mess. Well, well, yeah.

[00:44:27] Toliy: No, and like, like yeah, and I, I, I definitely know what you're saying, but it's also like, you can also, like if someone's calling you a liar, 

[00:44:34] Mike: right? 

[00:44:35] Toliy: Yeah. And, and then you could, and then like you could request reasons as to like 

[00:44:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:44:38] Toliy: Why you're doing that. Yeah. And maybe you're not, for example, like unknowing, like liar or something, right?

[00:44:43] Toliy: Yeah. And you're maybe just like doing something, you're like, oh, wow, that's actually a good point. Like, I could, I could see, I would come across that way, or you could give, and then like the person gives gives you their reasons. Mm-hmm. And then you refute them. Right. But like, like, um, like my, my, um, like one of my one, one of my mistakes I.

[00:45:05] Toliy: Um, in these kind of situations as to, um, almost make some kind of as assumption that I think that the person is, can have a reasonable conversation with me. 

[00:45:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:15] Toliy: In that moment. Yeah. Because like one, right? Mm-hmm. When it comes to like, like, um, is it sometimes worth it to lose, for example, like a, uh, like a sale, but you could get more of like a lesson in, in, in different stuff like it?

[00:45:30] Toliy: Um, it could be, but I'm definitely no, like, no advice that I can, that I, that I give Right. Or would I give, would ever lead to like, not in the direction that I know that will actually secure the, uh, deal I Right. So that, that, that like, that to me should like, um, feels like it should be a, like a default.

[00:45:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:51] Toliy: Feeling that like, like, I don't know, like. I know what you're saying. Like, like sometimes Tara will ask me stuff about like, oh, like Bill this client this, or like, should we call them out on this? Or like, uh, ask this. And like, like lots of times, like I understand the different, uh, um, um, um, situations and the people and like the, uh, the, the, the people behind them, right?

[00:46:17] Toliy: So like, am I, like a hundred percent always gonna for sure have the correct answer and like guaranteed always like, no. But in a lot of the situations where she'll ask me about how to go about a particular thing, um, like I'll be relatively spot on because I know these people, because usually I've had many conversations with them.

[00:46:37] Toliy: Via like knowing how they email, how they talk, how they go about things. I know, I know. Understand. Like I already have to go through a whole like behind it. Right? This is like I know for, do you have an idea of the person, like I know that Infor, for example, Uhhuh, if I get on one call with that guy, I could probably get like four more credit cards.

[00:46:54] Toliy: Right. And charge like four more people. Yeah. For example, like for like month, monthly deals outta nowhere, people who will never use a platform and there's people signed up right now Yeah. Will never use anything. Yeah. They're, their just cards are on it because they want to get credits and stuff like that.

[00:47:09] Toliy: Yeah. And I know that like, they'll also pay for overages on something like that, that that's not gonna be a problem. And then there might be a guy that like, he'll cancel and then he'll ask for like a 50 piece like thing that takes like, like it costs us like, I don't know, like $120 to like do. So like, it, it, it could feel like, for example, a loss or something like that.

[00:47:27] Toliy: But, but, but it's not in the totality of this situation. Yeah. Right. Oftentimes she'll battle me like saying, so we're gonna write a whole extra line, like at no extra cost for like Yeah, I know 40 a whole extra line is 5 cents on times 40, 40 pieces. Yeah. Right. It's nothing that like, like it's not even worth a conversation.

[00:47:46] Toliy: It's not even worth figuring something out that's actually more expensive than losing 5 cents on 40 pieces. Yeah. Right. For, for, for example, so cold. Right. Um, um, so like that, that, to me it like to, to, to bring it back is like my mistake is thinking that one the persons. Ready and wanting to have a reasonable conversation to actually like, hear me out and, and actually understand what, what's going on.

[00:48:11] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Right. And that would be more or less like that, that, that's like a dumb assumption too, because like that would be a request for an egoless conversation, right? Mm-hmm. Where it's like somebody actually has like a problem and then like the situation can be discussed like in detail. 

[00:48:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:48:28] Toliy: Without, um, like either party feeling, like any kind of way about it, but actually in the moment in such in search of the, the, the truth mm-hmm.

[00:48:37] Toliy: We all know if we think about that, like these scenarios are like the, I don't know, half a percent or or less of, of all kinds of, uh, scenarios throughout, throughout the day for all different kinds of people. 

[00:48:48] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:48] Toliy: So ob obviously to expect that like, or to think that like, this is what's going on is definitely a mistake on my part.

[00:48:56] Toliy: Right. Um. But my, like in the moment, b like baffling experience is a thought that the other person could think that I'm coming in here to do something bad. Yeah. To them, right? Yeah. But like, but no reasonable person in a reasonable conversation will, will depict that. But then I have to also, but then like, it goes all the way back to them, assuming that like, okay, what you're dealing with is a person without attachment.

[00:49:22] Toliy: Yeah. Or like, like without their own set of understandings. Mm-hmm. Right? And if those are not mutually lined up at that time, right? Mm-hmm. Um, then like of course like, like something wrong is going to happen. Like my, my logical mind understands that right now. Yeah. Right. So like ultimately, like the, the huge fundamental shift I need to, um, to, to, to understand is that often I, I don't wanna in like I.

[00:49:51] Toliy: Like, sometimes I do view it as like the experience and the learning as almost like a bad thing or like a punishment. And sometimes it's difficult. Like, like in, in all of these, these things like Elder allowed me to go and learn and get hit and, and, and feel pain and like, suffer. Right. And then come, come back however many times it took.

[00:50:11] Toliy: Right. Get better, learn, move on, grow. Right. And oftentimes it's difficult for me to, uh, give that another person that same dose after, like knowing what I went through and how, and like how that all went. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And then like, um, it, it, it gets heightened to a new level, right? When you have a person who's like completely new and like.

[00:50:37] Toliy: Relatively doesn't know anything about mm-hmm. Like that subject or that like scenario. Right? Yeah. So oftentimes I will come in with the assumption that like, okay, like this person actually wants to find out because yeah, they think that the actual, that the person they're speaking to actually knows what he's talking about.

[00:50:52] Toliy: Right. He's putting 

[00:50:53] Eldar: against 

[00:50:53] Toliy: a high 

[00:50:53] Eldar: standard. 

[00:50:54] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so then like, um, yeah, my, my fundamental shift is definitely to ultimately like in, in the short term to shut my mouth, right? Yeah. Um, to not give advice at all, right? Yeah. Um, pro probably e even if asked right? Ultimately until I like, um, and, and to be extremely conscious in all these different scenarios and to, um, not one get anything like tricked into like, someone someone wants, like some, someone could say like, Hey, could you help me figure this out?

[00:51:27] Toliy: Okay. I can't write away say like, Hey, could you help me figure this out? I can't just take those words and say, okay, I'll help you figure the mm-hmm. This out, right. Like, I need to be extra careful. Yeah. And ask many questions around like, okay. Like what's the actual request here? Right. Uhhuh, whatcha are trying 

[00:51:44] Eldar: to figure out.

[00:51:44] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. '

[00:51:45] Toliy: cause sometimes someone will say like, like, there's a difference between asking like, like, like someone saying, Hey, what's the fastest way to close this deal? Versus, for example, uh, like, how can we learn here? Like, those, those are two different, like, for example, requests. Right. Of course. Um, but sometimes those two things get med in, in the same, uh, requests to begin with for, for example.

[00:52:07] Toliy: Right. Uhhuh. So my, my, my, my challenge here is to be like very vigilant in, in, in, in paying attention and actually hearing what people want. Mm-hmm. Right. And then giving them what they want. Right. And letting them go on the quest that they need to go on to learn whatever lessons, uh, and like hardships that they have to go through to learn whatever that they need.

[00:52:35] Toliy: Until they can level up past that. And then, um, maybe, maybe then have more of like a, um, like an honest conversation, like, um, faster or maybe like, like actually get into the more nitty gritty of it. Like, like, you know, um, but, but it's hard, it's hard to hear one sentence and that sentence actually mean a completely different thing.

[00:53:00] Toliy: But, but I, I think I have enough, like, um, like you follow all that. Like, I think I have enough skills. I have enough skills because like, like I, I know I could be good at questioning things and asking questions, right? Yeah. Like, I know I could do that because like that, that, that, that just like part of the core of who I am and o ultimately like what, what I do.

[00:53:21] Toliy: So I just need to use these questions properly to put myself, um, in better situations, right? Mm-hmm. And, um, value the pro val, value the process of the person. Going through. 

[00:53:36] Harris: Do you? So what I wanna say is, okay, we all know I'm terrible at communication and figuring out certain things a person says. Right?

[00:53:46] Harris: And I have a lot of trouble with that, with Anato. Uh, a lot of times I don't fully understand what he's saying and a lot of times I would take it the wrong way, which eld a's there okay. To dumb it down for me and basically try to explain what he's saying. Mm-hmm. You know, better because you know, or lower the, or uh, lessen the blow.

[00:54:08] Harris: Yeah. So a lot of times, well it's not that you lessen the blow, it's more you're trying to explain where he is coming from. He's not attacking or something like that. Mm-hmm. I have to reassure you that his intentions are good. It's not re in in a way. Yes. But at the same time 

[00:54:25] Toliy: No, but that's exactly what, what's going on.

[00:54:27] Toliy: And like in the moment, like. Well, you say things a certain way 

[00:54:32] Mike: that No, I have a, I have a question. Maybe it ties into this by, by the way, that that approach, uh, does that, is that showing that totally, maybe you don't respect or value the suffering that went, that you went through that got you here. He doesn't think about that.

[00:54:49] Harris: If that, if that's the case in the 

[00:54:51] Eldar: moment. In the moment though. But ultimately, is that, is that what it is? That, is that why if that the actions speak louder in the words? Of course. It's, it's, it's a result. Like you, you see the result, right? So like, then of course it doesn't respect the process. I 

[00:55:02] Harris: know I don't have a, 

[00:55:03] Eldar: it 

[00:55:03] Eldar: doesn't understand that process.

[00:55:04] Eldar: I can't really talk, it doesn't agree with the process. 

[00:55:06] Eldar: I know I can't really talk about this subject. Yeah, because it involves, well no, it revolves you as well 

[00:55:13] Eldar: on many different occasions. I gave you one to star earlier, but I just wanna 

[00:55:15] Harris: say if you went through all that right, if you went through all that.

[00:55:20] Harris: And you became this killer at sales. 

[00:55:22] Eldar: Sure. But he's not happy with himself. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if he came, became a killer at sales. If overall you're not happy with yourself, you're still gremlin on the inside. 

[00:55:30] Harris: I, I understand that, but he's in a better position where he is now. 

[00:55:34] Eldar: Sure. But that's not 

[00:55:35] Eldar: you 

[00:55:35] Eldar: if you still 

[00:55:36] Eldar: have a ways to go.

[00:55:37] Eldar: Better position. Well, you said everyone 

[00:55:39] Harris: has a ways to go. 

[00:55:41] Eldar: 100%, but the, the, that part of humbling yourself and being grateful for what you did accomplish is long gone. You highlight only what the negatives are right now. 

[00:55:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:55:53] Eldar: You don't have the ability to appreciate what is 

[00:55:55] Toliy: Buddhist, Buddhist was, right?

[00:55:56] Toliy: What, what, what, what do you mean? That in comparison to what? To what? I'm like saying, well, based on what 

[00:55:59] Eldar: he's saying, based on the example that he was giving me, I understand. No, but what, 

[00:56:03] Toliy: what was the example that he's giving? What's 

[00:56:04] Eldar: the 

[00:56:04] Toliy: example you're giving? 

[00:56:05] Harris: I was saying if he, if doing this made him a killer at sales.

[00:56:10] Harris: Mm-hmm. Learning from these defeats. Mm-hmm. All these different things, right? Yeah. He's in a good position, uh. Lifewise. Mm-hmm. As I can see. Mm-hmm. Why doesn't he want me to go through the same shit? 

[00:56:23] Mike: Because he believes there's a better way to get there, but we're seeing he's still not happy with the 

[00:56:30] Eldar: result.

[00:56:32] Mike: He doesn't respect 

[00:56:34] Eldar: what Buddha said. He's, he's not really enjoying that, what you went through. Yeah. But he beat it. No. Yeah. That's in your eyes. Yeah. He, yeah. You're perceiving him as he's made it based on the, you said quote unquote life things he accomplished. Yeah. Does doesn't mean 

[00:56:53] Mike: anything to No. If he might be looking back at those things as bad where somebody else who overcame those things, looking at those things are good because you overcame those.

[00:57:02] Mike: You, you like, you accomplished them and you feel proud of yourself that you went through where Seems like's. He's judging that as a bad thing in my 

[00:57:08] Harris: eyes. Totally. Is proud at where he is now, what he is accomplished. Right. That's what it, it looks like to me. Yeah. But he is not leading with that. But to me it looks like that.

[00:57:18] Harris: It looks like that to 

[00:57:19] Mike: you, but also your eyes have been closed for the past 27 happy birthday years. Yes. But 

[00:57:25] Harris: what I was saying was I have a hard time understanding where he is coming from. Good. Because a lot of times Toley says something in a particular way. Yeah. And it doesn't sound like it's a learning thing.

[00:57:34] Harris: It sounds more like, how do I put it? Uh, it comes off the wrong way. So what does it sound like? Punishment? I wouldn't say punishment. Uh, like this particular time abuse, it sounded like accusation, bullying, you know, like accusing Yeah. Well, punishment, abuse. It's not abuse. It more sounded like he was accusing me of being deceitful.

[00:57:58] Harris: Okay. And I couldn't, I didn't have the ability until afterwards. Yeah. To understand. Yeah. That he didn't know the whole story. He, yeah. And not sound like a dick. He didn't explain it very well, where he was coming from. That's right. Which we talked about. Communication I have. Yeah. A harder time communicating with to mm-hmm.

[00:58:19] Harris: Um, I guess him communicating with me. 

[00:58:21] Eldar: Mm-hmm. That, 

[00:58:24] Harris: I guess what I'm saying, I think 

[00:58:25] Eldar: the bigger problem for a lot of humans is we don't really have a good gauge as to when the other individual that we're communicating with is receptive to learn. Receptive to learn. Right. A lot of times, right. In those moments, like you just talked about, there's other attachments that are at play.

[00:58:47] Eldar: In your case, you just wanted to close a deal, like I wasn't totally, wasn't coming in there caring about you closing a deal. Mm-hmm. You understand this. Yeah. He doesn't have the same attachments that you do. He's not going against your dad who's pressuring him. You know, he's not going against his parents.

[00:59:03] Eldar: Pressuring him for sales. He's not going against the boss who's pressuring him for the stuff, you know, so he doesn't have the same attachments towards that. So what he's gonna look for, right, organically and naturally is higher level things. Mm-hmm. What is the right thing to do? How to prevent, how to do preventative measures and all this other stuff he's disregarding in that moment.

[00:59:23] Eldar: Your feelings about the thing, he's trying to level you up. You're like, oh, I don't want this shit. I don't understand this shit. What the fuck I wanna, I wanna do what I wanna do. 

[00:59:31] Harris: Like the end, the end. Like when we got into this, like he did match, I guess you could say, right? Mm-hmm. I don't like that shit. I don't like that shit.

[00:59:44] Harris: Mm-hmm. Because it makes me feel like shit. Okay. But we all know I suffer from certain things. Yeah. And I have a, that's easy to light a fuse. I'm 

[00:59:53] Eldar: um, how long are you gonna use that cop out 

[00:59:55] Harris: for? No, I'm not using the bipolar thing. 

[00:59:56] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:59:57] Harris: I always feel like I need to go into defense. 

[00:59:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:00:00] Harris: When my character is.

[01:00:03] Harris: Questioned. 

[01:00:04] Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:05] Harris: Uh, you know, it's always defense mode. Mm-hmm. I have a defense mode mm-hmm. That I don't know how to get rid of that. Instead of going in the defense mode, I should ask where they're coming from. Mm-hmm. But I have a shield that I put up. 

[01:00:26] Crispy: That's right. 

[01:00:27] Harris: That's like, you can't, you know, you can't enter.

[01:00:31] Harris: I'm not gonna let you get in my mind, I'm not gonna let you accuse me of certain things. Yeah. I don't know how to break that down. 

[01:00:38] Eldar: You realize that the shield is, is made out of, uh, straw. It's garbage. It's made out of nothing. Mm. You're not actually very good at it because it doesn't really last. It's a good thing.

[01:00:50] Eldar: I'm giving you a compliment that as much as you think that that shield is very strong, that's made out of nothing, that's not strong at all. And that's a good thing. Mm. You know why? Mm. If other people around you like us have the ability to destroy the shield Right. And remind you of what's actually matters and help you understand that or feel guilty or whatever.

[01:01:12] Eldar: Right. That faster puts you on the right track. You apologized. Yes. 

[01:01:18] Harris: Several times. I even sent him a text message that you sent them a love note. It was not a love note man. It was not a love note. It was a i I felt like, you know, did you say I love you? I did. I said, I love, love you. Xo. Xo. Yes. I said, uh, sorry again.

[01:01:33] Harris: I love you, my brother. Yeah. You know, you're my brother. I love you. You know my That's right. You're my brother 

[01:01:38] Eldar: and I think you mean 

[01:01:38] Harris: it. Yeah. I love Toley, man. You know, listen. Not like that, man. Whoa. Yeah. Don't get Krispy 

[01:01:44] Eldar: jealous. I know the way you can and the way you know and the way you define love to be.

[01:01:49] Eldar: Okay. What do you mean define it? Whoa. What do you mean? I think we all define it differently here in this room. 

[01:01:54] Harris: Well, I've sent you. Whoa. When we, but what the fuck? No. When we butted heads. Yeah. Which we did it a few times. Sure. Uh, I explained, yeah. I think 

[01:02:08] Eldar: we're just getting started. 

[01:02:08] Harris: Yeah. Absolutely. I, I don't know if this is part of the process where we have to butt heads.

[01:02:13] Harris: Yeah. I, 

[01:02:13] Eldar: I think it is. I think it is part of the process. I mean, but the thing is you're gonna be doing a lot of the apologizing part. 

[01:02:20] Harris: Yeah. Absolutely. Um, okay. But I always apologize. I admit when I'm wrong that, that's good. And I fucked up. 

[01:02:26] Eldar: That's good. Um, one day you're gonna get tired of apologizing, which is a good thing.

[01:02:31] Eldar: You're gonna wanna learn how not needing to apologize anymore. You're gonna learn how to communicate better and therefore you're gonna stop apologizing. 

[01:02:38] Harris: But, you know, I told you, you know mm-hmm. Why you guys mean a lot to me, right? Mm-hmm. You guys, I consider you guys my, my second family here. Yeah. Well, my prime family I guess.

[01:02:50] Harris: Yeah. 'cause you guys support me more. Yeah. And you know, you show more love and care for me than. Fortunately, a lot of times my, my own family. 

[01:03:00] Eldar: Yeah. That's a natural phenomenon, so don't worry about it. What do you mean? Many times when, when friends get close really, really, really close, they become closer than the family.

[01:03:09] Harris: Yeah, I know. Alright. You know, and I explained to you some of the difficulties I have with my family. Mm-hmm. And you know, I, I know like everyone, you know, I, I might meet certain people. Even, uh, certain people in the group have told me that, you know, family's not blood. They love you. You gotta have the people around you.

[01:03:32] Harris: You know? Yeah. You'll see who's really there for you. Yeah. 

[01:03:37] Eldar: Yeah. That bullshit about blood is thicker than water. 

[01:03:39] Harris: Yeah. I know. And my dad, my, my mom, my dad always used to say, you can't change your family. You can't do this. The thing, 

[01:03:45] Eldar: the problem is that your dad can't even have an argument here. Yeah. And I'm not gonna say that he's actually a stepdad, but I just did.

[01:03:51] Harris: But you know, they, they all say blood is blood. Family is family. Yeah. You can't change your family. You gotta love them for who they are. Mm-hmm. You know, at the end of the day, they're the good ones. You're gonna fall back on. Yeah. And a lot of times that's not the case 

[01:04:05] Eldar: there. Nothing, there's nothing that we're doing here and Dennis Rock's podcast or aism or in sales or any of that to create a rift between your family.

[01:04:14] Eldar: No, it's, it's, it's actually to create a better, stronger bond between you and your family. Absolutely. That is 

[01:04:21] Harris: respected 

[01:04:22] Eldar: Right. On both 

[01:04:23] Harris: sides. Because we have come to the conclusion that a lot of my family do not, I guess, respect me. Well, 

[01:04:31] Eldar: yeah, you don't respect 

[01:04:33] Harris: yourself. 

[01:04:33] Toliy: But on, like, on, on the subject, for example of like fam family for example, versus like, I don't know, friends, let's just say if they are closer and they are helping you more than family, right.

[01:04:44] Toliy: Um, um, why can those, why can those same people who for example, say that. Be more disrespectful to the, to the people who they're saying are like, have more care for them or give them more than their own family. 

[01:04:58] Eldar: Uh, because I think that, uh, if you pay close attention, the relationships that are a little bit more intimate and stronger, uh, they usually hurt us the most.

[01:05:06] Eldar: Therefore, we react the worst to them. 

[01:05:08] Toliy: But when we, if we verbally talk about it, we, we don't like incorporate that into our speech, right? Because 

[01:05:14] Eldar: we don't actually believe what we say. We don't actually define the right way in both scenarios. We actually don't define the fact, like, if he doesn't actually believe yet that this relationships, these relationships right here, are closer than his families.

[01:05:29] Eldar: He doesn't believe this. Actually 

[01:05:31] Harris: I do. 

[01:05:31] Eldar: Okay. You actually don't believe 

[01:05:33] Harris: this either, actually. Actually I do, because I'm gonna, if you did, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tell you something here. Yes. John has said hurtful things to me. Yeah. I really didn't give a fuck 

[01:05:43] Eldar: when, uh, I can tell you that, uh, every time you get on the phone call with anybody in your family, Uhhuh, you become a completely different person.

[01:05:51] Eldar: Okay. That tells me something. That tells me com like tells me everything. 

[01:05:55] Harris: Yeah. But I, I've been accused of different things when totally did it. Yeah. And I felt like it was an accusation. Mm-hmm. That hurt more than like, when John would do something. It should, 

[01:06:05] Eldar: it should. Because you supposed to esteem him higher because the things that we're talking about, the where we're trying to get you to mm-hmm.

[01:06:12] Eldar: You're supposed to esteem him. That where John May be throwing insults at you left and right without real, any real direction. Totally. His words should mean more. 100%. Mm-hmm. So it should hurt more for sure. That is why, why I'm saying is that that's the reality of it. When you say, 

[01:06:25] Harris: you know, like, uh, I don't really believe that.

[01:06:27] Harris: I'm closer to you guys. You don't believe it. 

[01:06:30] Eldar: Right now you believe it in this moment because we actually are in tune and we actually thinking about something very specific. What we're trying to understand is the objective truth. Mm-hmm. We objectively believe this as soon as we stepped out of this room.

[01:06:42] Eldar: Trust me, you're gonna put on the mask again. Yeah. And again, and again and again. 

[01:06:47] Toliy: No, and I know exactly what you're talking about. I definitely have particular things in my family as well where it's actions be louder than worse, guys. Yeah. Yeah. Where I have, I mean, I, I think it's significantly like reduced over time.

[01:06:56] Toliy: No, you're doing better. Um, yeah, but, but my one, but my, but, but, but like, yeah. The reality then, is that like, um, on, on both fronts, when the people maybe like come out of face or when the people say, they're like, no, like, you mean like way more to me, neither of those statements are, are like true, right?

[01:07:16] Eldar: Correct. So who are you more, 

[01:07:21] Harris: who are you more. But a lot of times I do feel closer to you guys. You should, than my own 

[01:07:27] Eldar: family. You should. You know why? Because we know the intimate details about you. It is on the open and we are actually trying to help you. So why am I with that? 

[01:07:37] Harris: Why am I able to open up to you guys?

[01:07:40] Harris: But I can't to that 

[01:07:41] Eldar: because we have certain abilities in order to ask questions in such a way where actually triggers the objective part about who you are as a person, as a human being, as a, as a soul. Mm-hmm. Right. Where those individuals are still playing, um, house mm-hmm. You guys come in and act acting towards each other.

[01:08:00] Eldar: Yeah. You guys have a acting movie going on. Yeah. You, they don't actually know what's actually going on. So you could keep up with the Kardashians. This is what you guys are doing. Yeah. When David calls you, oh, what are you doing? What? You know, like it's all surface level bullshit. Yeah. There's no actual conversation happening.

[01:08:15] Eldar: My, my mom, my, me and my sister have the same thing. Harris Uhhuh. This is nothing to be ashamed of. This is actually what the reality is. Why? Because me and my sister, we never got to know each other. Richard doesn't know this elder. 

[01:08:27] Harris: Deep down, right? Yeah. I I love you guys. Don't 

[01:08:31] Eldar: say anything gay, man, please.

[01:08:33] Eldar: It's deep 

[01:08:33] Harris: down I love you guys. What 

[01:08:34] Eldar: does that mean? Deep down? That's an insult. No, 

[01:08:37] Harris: I love you guys. You guys are, I feel, why is it deep down? I feel like, you know, you're just like deep. You like deep, but 15. 

[01:08:45] Harris: Yeah. 

[01:08:47] Harris: You wanna start to talk now, man. Yeah. What the fuck? As soon as it start getting engaged, you got excited.

[01:08:51] Harris: You got excited with engaged, brought him up with it. Yeah. Basically, you guys, right? I feel like you guys are my family, but sometimes I lose sight of your, your in my life, you guys are probably the only ones that are helping me through a lot of shit that I'm going through. Yeah. In certain situations I lose sight of that.

[01:09:11] Harris: Correct. But a lot of times I do know that. But how can you then not, 

[01:09:16] Toliy: not lose sight? That one? Uh, like, like, uh, well, she hits the fan well. Well, well, yeah. Well, that, that's a different thing. But what I'm saying is that lose how, how can you not lose sight of that, uh, of the people in your family that you respect more, that don't do as much for you?

[01:09:33] Harris: Because I expect certain things from them. I'm used to them, uh, saying certain things. I'm used to them doing certain things. That's right. Uh, that at the point I kind of build up, I don't know, a tolerance. 

[01:09:47] Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:48] Harris: Uh, yeah. That I've been going through it, I guess, all my life. 

[01:09:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:09:53] Harris: That, you know, I really just don't give a fuck anymore.

[01:09:58] Harris: Uh, that's terrible to say. Yeah. Like with my dad, it's different Right. Because I haven't seen him in person for Yeah. Eight, nine years. So it's another thing we're getting used to being around each other, and I'm starting to realize that. Mm-hmm. That we haven't been around each other for that long. We talked once a week.

[01:10:24] Harris: Yeah. You know? Yeah. About, about nothing. Right. How was your day? How was this? How was that? How's the weather out there? And you know, it's, I haven't been around him. Yeah. This is a new obstacle for me. This is a new thing I'm learning and my dad has mindset for a specific thing for me and you know. Yeah.

[01:10:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:53] Harris: I've grown used to them doing this. Right. This is where I'm coming from. My brother calling me a bitch, my sister-in-law calling me a little bitch. They're little bitch I've grown used to this. Did, 

[01:11:07] Eldar: does that answer your question? 

[01:11:10] Harris: Totally. This is a whole new environment. I've never gone through anything like this.

[01:11:15] Harris: Mm-hmm. Uh. It's taken me a while to get used to. Yeah. This pandemic, if this is making sense. Yeah, it does. 

[01:11:26] Toliy: Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. But then like our, our, like our, our, our words don't match our actual actions. And I think there's a lag. Yeah, there's a lag. Yeah. Yeah. But when challenge, we're always going to defend it, 

[01:11:42] Eldar: depending how sensitive we are within that particular subject matter.

[01:11:46] Toliy: I think like mo most, most of us, like if, like, if someone were to say that, well, that's why part of life, uh, it's actually letting 

[01:11:52] Eldar: go of all the, the old and trying to, so, 

[01:11:55] Harris: so I have a question for you. Right. Whenever I was in a troubled position, 'cause there's been several times I reached out to you. 

[01:12:02] Harris: Mm-hmm.

[01:12:03] Harris: Right? Yeah. When I was in the shelter. You're one of the only people I actually told that, uh, my situation. Yeah. Why, how did I know I could. Reach out to you. I mean, I, I know whenever I was having problems, when I was a kid or anything like that, I came to you. And how did we do? What do you mean? How did we do?

[01:12:21] Harris: You calmed me down about certain things. Did you sit on my lap? 

[01:12:24] Eldar: No, 

[01:12:24] Harris: man. But I gave 

[01:12:25] Eldar: you a nice hug with your butt 

[01:12:28] Harris: hole. 

[01:12:28] Eldar: What the fuck, man? Now you go, I, I just wanna make sure that there, you know, there's, there's, you know, accurate testimony here. None of this happened, right? No man. All right, good. No, 

[01:12:36] Eldar: but you know, but did we do well?

[01:12:38] Eldar: Yeah. Alright, so what's the association? I'm just saying No. What's the association with Eldar? I'm gonna say 

[01:12:45] Harris: this. Okay. Uhhuh, I'm getting to it. Okay. I'm answer that. At the end of the day, I always knew that you were a person I could rely on. Why? Because I've proven it right? Yeah. You proven we have a track record.

[01:12:57] Harris: You've proven. Yeah. When I was in the shelter and I knew like I needed help, I needed help. I didn't go to my mom begging her, please help me. I went to El a and basically was like, Hey, this is where I'm at. What the hell do I do? Yeah. And he's like, okay, I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna help you set this up.

[01:13:13] Harris: I'm gonna help you set that up and that, and we got it done. Yeah. 

[01:13:17] Eldar: But the reason why you came to me is because of the associations. Yeah. We have a good track record. Yeah. I didn't hurt you before. No, I never took advantage of I'm unlike 

[01:13:25] Harris: people in my family. 

[01:13:26] Eldar: That's why you came to me. Yeah. What, what that, what that tells me is that every single soul has the ability to, to tune in into that space.

[01:13:35] Eldar: So why 

[01:13:35] Harris: can't 

[01:13:36] Eldar: I? When needed, 

[01:13:39] Harris: when needed? Like, because recently I've been thinking more and more, right? Yeah. I've told you this. 

[01:13:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:44] Harris: That while everyone else in my family Right. Hasn't done I guess their full effort or even really tried to assist. Right? Yeah. Ended up in the shelter. Yeah. Uh. I guess I didn't learn properly on what I needed to do in adult adulthood.

[01:14:02] Harris: Right. I graduated from high school, my mom moved to Florida. Mm-hmm. Left me there. Yeah. In North Carolina, you know, like, and it was basically like you're either gonna float or swim. That's right. Sink or swim. Sink or swim. Yeah. Float or swim. I don't know where I went with that. Yeah, you don't. Okay. It was either like, you know, but recently I've been thinking more and more about like, you guys actually trying to help me and you're the only ones really putting in that effort now, right?

[01:14:29] Harris: Yeah. We are your dads. Yeah. But you know, and then this happened yesterday and I was like, why would I do that? Yeah. You know, these are the guys that are there for me. These are the guys that are holding me. Uh, I don't wanna say holding my hand through the situation, but that's basically what you're doing.

[01:14:46] Harris: Whoa. 

[01:14:47] Eldar: But do you realize why this is happening? I. We just described. Right. What happened? Yeah. Right. I think that you weren't the only one who was guilty of what happened, right. The way you snapped, right. No, but 

[01:14:57] Harris: I, I felt like I was the guilty part. You were, yeah. For you 

[01:15:00] Eldar: are a hundred percent guilty. Right.

[01:15:02] Eldar: And I think a lot of times when they say it takes two to tango, this is what we just discussed, means that totally approach was incorrect. He didn't assess the situation properly. Mm-hmm. He didn't see your attachments for what they are. He didn't ask the right questions. Right. And obviously your response was not a good one to his good intentions because he wants the good intentions.

[01:15:21] Eldar: Right. He obviously does not want Harris Right. To be representing the company in a deceitful way. 

[01:15:26] Harris: Yeah. 

[01:15:26] Eldar: His intentions are correct. 

[01:15:28] Harris: Yeah. 

[01:15:28] Eldar: And you should be happy about that. 

[01:15:30] Harris: Yeah. 

[01:15:30] Eldar: Right. Because if there were, if there were incorrect for you Right. He's trying to steer you into the right direction. That's a good man.

[01:15:37] Harris: Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:39] Eldar: I know. But in the moment, it was a moment. Completely 

[01:15:41] Harris: different thing in the moment. I, like I said, I, I, that's one of my problems. Right? That's right. I take things the wrong way. That's right. 

[01:15:48] Eldar: Well, that's because you're not comprehending on seeing things yet for what they are, because you don't have yet the ability to focus your mind is very distracted right now.

[01:15:57] Eldar: Right. In order to zoom in and really see it for what it is, it takes some time, it takes some effort. It taking, it takes some time to experiencing these types of pains. Mm-hmm. In order to say, you know what, I don't wanna experience that anymore. I don't wanna blame the shit on a DD or bipolar, all this stuff that's, I wanna focus, that's not what I'm trying 

[01:16:15] Harris: blame it on anymore.

[01:16:16] Harris: I'm trying to say, you know, I have these tendencies that I'm gonna put up my shield. That's right. You know, even though I, I know, yeah. That I'm in a good environment. I know these guys are here for me. That's right. But for some reason I lose sight of those things. Yes. Yeah. When you get over this thing right here that you're talking about, 

[01:16:33] Eldar: all the success will come to you.

[01:16:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:34] Harris: You know, you understand this or no? Yeah, I do. Okay. And I, you know. It comes down to when my family's like, you know, I don't like the person you're turning into. I feel like they're trying to force their views. And I said, yes, but I tried to explain, but deep down, they're the ones holding me up. Mm-hmm.

[01:16:50] Harris: They're the ones that are helping me through things, certain things. And they're probably the only ones that are keeping me going and fucking life. You know? I have a purpose. I have a, I'm coming every day. You know? I was at low points in my life that I didn't want to continue. 

[01:17:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:17:07] Harris: You know? 

[01:17:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:17:10] Harris: And you know, you guys are giving me a purpose.

[01:17:12] Harris: You're, yeah. Jesus Christ. I don't wanna say what's going on, but. 

[01:17:17] Mike: Don't, don't be, don't cry, man. Is he crying? No, I'm, I'm fucking tearing out, dude. That's fine. Yeah. 

[01:17:21] Harris: Tattoo here. No, dude. Thanks. You're happy, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm happy. But happy tears. It's more like, you know, 

[01:17:28] Mike: yeah. We already know you're the new baby, so you could be a little crying, but fuck you guys, man.

[01:17:39] Eldar: You see, and I think that's, that's genuine and that's an honest moment that you're experiencing. And that's a good thing, Harris. You know what I mean? These types of testimonies is why we do it in the first place. 

[01:17:49] Harris: Yeah. But I feel like a pussy fucking tearing up right now, man. Well listen, that's better.

[01:17:53] Eldar: It's better than what you're yelling at. Totally. Or you know, or being 

[01:17:56] Eldar: angry at us. But deep down, you know, it's a good thing, Harris. Yeah. But I know 

[01:18:01] Harris: I'm in a good position, you know? Yeah. And let's just hope that that deep down doesn't stay deep down. Yeah, I know. But you know, I look back a lot of times. I do know you guys are here for me.

[01:18:10] Harris: You guys, you know, are keeping me afloat. You guys are doing this, but I keep losing that site. 

[01:18:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:18:17] Harris: Of what the bigger picture is, what going up. We're trying to help you 

[01:18:20] Eldar: so you can stay on that path. Yeah, I know. And and I think you'll get there if you keep fighting. 

[01:18:25] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:18:25] Eldar: If you keep putting in the effort, keep coming and keep challenging us and challenging yourself, I think you'll get there.

[01:18:31] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Despite of what your family might be thinking about you. Right. Like you have to see the picture for what it is and sometimes maybe get reassurance from the people that actually care. Maybe John, John, has he been done better? How's he doing man, so far? Like you've been observing him and since he came here and stuff, Bro's.

[01:18:48] Eldar: A deceitful. He is deceitful, right? 

[01:18:51] Harris: Oh, man. Oh, okay. 

[01:18:52] Harris: Yeah. No, he likes, he likes walking with me. I know, right. See, now he is grabbing my hand like he actually loves you. I know you're not letting go dude. But no, you know. Like I said, you know, is this a moment of you wanting 

[01:19:08] Eldar: to say thank you to us? 

[01:19:09] Harris: Yeah. It is my way of saying thank you.

[01:19:10] Harris: I mean, fucking crying on the podcast show, you know, like Yeah. I think that's what it probably, I, I do love you guys. Yeah. You know, but I lose sight Yeah. Of what's what you guys are trying to do 

[01:19:26] Eldar: and you know. Yeah. One day you'll find out why, and if you can solve that riddle, like I said, I think the success is on the other side.

[01:19:33] Eldar: Yeah. Right. Well, what am I trying to get you right? You know, these conversations, this guy is selling our product to himself. 

[01:19:39] Harris: Yeah. 

[01:19:40] Eldar: Right. It's an easy self, but you're trembling there. Yeah. You're afraid. Right. 

[01:19:45] Harris: Like I said, you know, there's, I think 

[01:19:46] Eldar: that the reason why you are afraid Harris is mm-hmm. Because you playing out everybody else's image of you.

[01:19:51] Eldar: Yeah. And you're almost self-sabotaging yourself in that moment. 

[01:19:55] Harris: We already discussed that. A lot of this is holding me back. Yeah. You know, I'm trying to work on, you know, yeah. The things with my dad. I talked to Mike, you know, and I look forward to my birthday. 'cause I know it's the one day he's not gonna be on my fucking case.

[01:20:10] Crispy: When's your birthday? Uh, when is it today? You gonna make Yeah, it's today. You said happy birthday time. It's your friend. You gotta get 27 spankings. Oh, 

[01:20:21] Harris: that's not how it works. It's 27 punches, but, okay. Show club tonight, John. The subject. Yeah. But uh, yeah, you know, this is the first time on the podcast I fucking teared up.

[01:20:33] Harris: So Thanks guys. 

[01:20:35] Mike: Uhhuh. All right. Drink that. The first podcast, he almost cut of his arm. Yes. Today he's crying. Yes, man. Come on man. It's a good progress. No, it's a good progress, man. It's a good progress, man. It's a good reminder where you came from. Am I the first 

[01:20:47] Harris: one to tear up on the podcast? 

[01:20:49] Mike: I don't think so.

[01:20:50] Mike: Hell no. You know who all teared up on the 

[01:20:52] Harris: podcast? Oh my God. Fuck you. Shit. Everything's Nate This, Nate that, Nate that bro. I can't help him. Man. If Nate's listening to this, fuck you broke, director. Nate. 

[01:21:02] Eldar: Nate broke 

[01:21:03] Mike: down. Nate did waterfalls. Like you don't understand. You're not even crying, bro. He was crying like waterfalls, bro.

[01:21:10] Mike: Hysterical. 

[01:21:11] Crispy: Yo Harris. 

[01:21:12] Mike: He needed mouth to mouth. Krispy wasn't around, man, 

[01:21:15] Crispy: that's a 

[01:21:17] Mike: unbelievable, yo, Harris, what is this? That's a sex machine. That's a bad massage. That's 

[01:21:22] Harris: what I'm thinking. That's a massage. What time Tony? 

[01:21:25] Mike: 7 25. We gotta go. Yeah. I think that's a good way to end the podcast. 

[01:21:30] Harris: What? With a fucking cry?

[01:21:32] Mike: Yeah. Are you crying? The fact 

[01:21:34] Harris: that I teared up a little bit, man.