172. The Art of Teaching: Timing, Trolling, and Transformation

How do we identify when someone is truly ready to receive advice or learn? 

In this dynamic episode of the Dennis Rox Podcast, Eldar, Toliy, Mike, Katherine, and Joe dive into the complexities of giving and receiving advice. They explore when someone is truly ready to learn, the pitfalls of unsolicited advice, and the balance between compassion and tough love. From Toliy’s passionate push for challenging others to Joe’s military-style approach to fostering growth, the crew debates how to inspire change without forcing it. With humor, personal anecdotes, and raw insights, they unpack the delicate dance of teaching, the power of leading by example, and the importance of meeting people where they are. Tune in for a lively discussion on personal growth, cultural dynamics, and the art of planting seeds for transformation.

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Chapters

• 0:43 When is the Right Time to Teach?
• 2:38 The Challenge of Giving Advice
• 7:25 Navigating Unsolicited Advice
• 17:35 The Role of the Teacher and the Student
• 41:54 Navigating Conflict and Misunderstanding
• 1:09:49 The Frustration of Unheeded Advice
• 1:22:01 Earning Your Keep
• 1:34:52 Navigating Personal Growth and Learning
• 1:54:41 Commitment and Understanding in Relationships
• 2:08:22 The Importance of Challenging and Trolling
• 2:20:29 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Transcript

[00:00:00] Eldar: On this week's episode, I'd love to be able to give advice. You come back to me like, yo, share it with me. And we both rejoice in the fact that you found fucking results. Great. That would be the always best case scenario. I would love that. The truth of the matter is, that's not how that works. 

[00:00:13] Joe: Well, I would say that 90 to 95% of the people I did throw advice to, you know, I got results from I what?

[00:00:21] Turnaround? I get improvement. 

[00:00:23] Mike: Sick. Wow. That's really what it is. You know, if you want to help a lot of people, like the Gandhis of the world or whatever, or if you wanna help dear people, the best thing you can do is to be the example, and they're gonna actually see it without you even trying.

[00:00:43] Eldar: All right guys, today's topic is gonna be around figuring out when is the right time to teach? When is someone actually ripe for teaching? What are the indicators? What are the cues? Because a lot of times we get into these relationships or any type of relationships that we get into, right? You know, friends, family and stuff like that.

[00:01:12] Whoever, strangers even, you know, where we see people complain, right? About their lifestyles or their lives or whatever it is, right? And it can be clearly seen that as, you know, um, that they're crying out for help. They need help, right? They, they're complaining about stuff. I. They're seeking something and a humanness right about us and who we are prompts us to do what, right.

[00:01:39] Right away, most of the time. Right. To be a good human Right. Raise our hand and say, you know what, I have the answers. Mm-hmm. Take my advice. I have it, I have the answer for you. Only if you did this. Right. And we see this on a daily basis with everyone. You know, even today, Harris, you know, it's like, you know what I was gonna do Aldar, I was gonna reach out to Kat's sister.

[00:02:01] Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:02] You know, and I was gonna lend, you know, in an ear. Mm-hmm. Because I've been through it, I know how hard it is, yada, yada, yada. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Without actually knowing, you know, more details, asking K and stuff like that. He almost wants to push the agenda of wanting to be a hero or help, you know?

[00:02:18] Yeah.

[00:02:21] I don't know your, your, your example, Mike of your dad, where I move in and stuff like that. Some of the things that you've been talking to him about. You, you lend an ear, you lend a hand, you give certain advice and say, Hey, this should be the right thing. Mm-hmm. You know, and then he goes, what? And does his own thing.

[00:02:34] Yeah. Right. Or concludes his own conclusions. Right. So what happens a lot of the times is that then we now, at least me and you Totally right. We come to the same realizations of that the device that we've, we've been given out a lot of the times is not timely. Yeah. It's like that person is actually, has to go through certain emotions, has to go through certain suffering mm-hmm.

[00:02:58] Certain life experiences before they can even hear that. Right. Sometimes like we have to send our dad and say, you know what, dad? Yeah, sure. You wanna move far away where there's no friends and family around in order to experience mm-hmm. Loneliness maybe. Right? Yeah. And how much toll that can take on you.

[00:03:14] Yeah. You know, some people have to journey that before they ripen up. Right. And say, you know what, I was wrong. You know, I realize that my values, right. In this case, family or friends, um, I'm much bigger than I thought. Mm-hmm. Right. My selfish desire to move, move down or whatever, move out, you know, does not overpower the fact that I, I need social aspect of who I am, you know?

[00:03:43] Yeah. And we don't account for that. Nope. Um, but I think that these little nuggets of wisdom, right. Uh, or knowledge. Right. I'll say wisdom probably. They don't, they don't come cheap. They're not cheap, and they're not supposed to be cheap. Right. Yeah. That is why I think the, the, the biggest standalone, the, the biggest thing that we constantly go back to is the fact that I totally said everyone.

[00:04:13] I mean, we think mm-hmm. Everyone is exactly where they're supposed to be. Mm-hmm. There's no like. Rushing the process. 

[00:04:21] Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:23] You know, speeding it up in such a way with the way we desire it. Right. People are getting exactly what they deserve at all times. Yeah. I think for a lot of people, this will be a problem.

[00:04:34] No. 

[00:04:35] Mike: You know, 

[00:04:35] Eldar: this 

[00:04:35] Mike: and that for, for us too. It's sometimes, sometimes for us, it's a problem in our own lives. Yeah, 

[00:04:40] Eldar: yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sometimes we, we feel like we're supposed to be ahead of something. 

[00:04:45] Mike: Well, yeah. Anytime you complain about something 

[00:04:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:04:49] Mike: A lot of times it's probably Yeah. Because of that, what you're discussing 

[00:04:53] Eldar: Exactly.

[00:04:54] Mike: Exactly what you're saying. Exactly. 

[00:04:58] Eldar: So the question is, right. A lot of times is like, how do, how do we teach, how do we, how do we interact? Right. It's such, such, such a social dynamic. How do we identify triggers and trigger points or pain points where mm-hmm. The person's actually Right. Willing and able to pay attention to listen, to focus, and then maybe take the, take the advice or take the knowledge and, and implement it in such a way where, uh, life can be better for them or can get better for them.

[00:05:25] Mm-hmm. Because Harris is saying this, right. Hey guys, I'm asking, I'm asking, I'm raising my hand. What do I do? Mm-hmm. We look around and we, we laugh at each other. I mean, we laugh at him. Yeah. Together, you know? Mm-hmm. So, like, look at this, like, we've heard this so many times. What is it that you're actually asking?

[00:05:41] Mm-hmm. Right? As soon as we start, I start digging asking him, yeah. What do you want? Right. Oh, I wanna clear my mind, you know? Okay. Well what, what about the advice that might give you, you know, let's show a smartphone. Mm-hmm. Oh no. Let's, let's do camping instead. 

[00:05:53] Yeah. 

[00:05:54] Oh. But I can't do camping unless everyone goes Yeah.

[00:05:57] Oh, if, you know, I can't go there because they're strangers, you know? Mm-hmm. I told them go to Yeah. You know, a monastery, you know? Yeah. I don't know anyone there. Oh shit. So, okay, so your suffering is conditional. Mm-hmm. Right? It's on your terms, you know, not what Mike is advising. Well, not what elder is advising you.

[00:06:13] Totally. Is advising. Yeah. It's gotta be on your terms. Mm-hmm. Right. So we quickly find out that that person, I wouldn't say, I don't wanna say bullshitting, right. Because obviously that there are experiencing a certain level of pain. 

[00:06:27] Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:27] Right. But to the degree they are, because as soon as we start digging a little bit, right, okay, what do you actually want?

[00:06:34] And the things that we're suggesting can help them. Right. We can say, Hey, walk before going to bed or exercise before going to bed. Right. To be able to sleep better. Yeah. You know, stuff like that. It goes, ah, but I don't want to exercise by myself. By myself. Yeah. I'm not as motivated. Okay, sure. You're not as motivated to exercise by yourself.

[00:06:52] Fine. But right now you have a problem. Mm-hmm. What do you mean you don't want to exercise? You wanna have a panic attack? No, I don't wanna have a panic attack. I don't wanna have anxiety, but I'm not willing to exercise. But what is happening, right? What is actually happening?

[00:07:11] Is the prescription. Always go suffer more. We don't believe you. If it's, oh, what do you want me to jump off a bridge? 

[00:07:17] Okay, go. 

[00:07:19] You're bullshitting. Yeah. You ain't jumping off the bridge.

[00:07:25] So a lot of times, for me at least, right, even when I scroll social media on X, right? I see all this fucking advice. Everybody's given advice, bro. Yeah. Sometimes when I have like a quote or whatever, you know, when we say something and I'm like, mm-hmm have something profound, and I'm like, I almost wanna say it, but then I'm like, who the fuck am I teaching?

[00:07:41] Who the fuck am I saying this to? Mm-hmm. Who's gonna listen to this? Yeah. This is so premature. Like, 'cause I'm looking at around and all the advice and stuff. I'm like, what the fuck? Like, sure, that sounds good. Like, yeah, be in the moment, be present and like, bro, most people can't take that in. Like, who are you talking to?

[00:07:58] You know what I mean? Like, a lot of times I'm just kind of refuting everything that I'm listening to or hearing online when it comes to advice. And when I want to kind of give it, I'm like, I'm stuck. Like I can't give it. Yeah. Because I know what's behind it. So like I can't do it, you know, properly. Like, you should do this to better yourself here.

[00:08:16] You should do this to better yourself there. You know what I mean? Like, I know that it's gonna, that's not an effective way, nor do I believe that that's the people are ripe in order to hear it, you know what I mean? Where is it gonna land in some weird abyss, 

[00:08:32] Mike: but, um, even though it might not land at that time, do you think at some point it might click.

[00:08:39] And you're saying that it may affect them down the line? 

[00:08:42] Eldar: Well, first I'm bound by the fact that I, I shouldn't teach when not asked. Right. No, I get that. Yeah. That's, that's number one. Right? That's one. That's the first thing that I can jump over. Yeah. And the second one, yeah, I, I agree that maybe one, one day down the line that might click and that, that's cool.

[00:08:54] You know, that's like a little piece of digital information somewhere out there that's, uh, accessible at any time. So the, 

[00:09:01] Mike: the reason for not wanting to teach one, not ask, what's the, what's your reasons for that? Well, because 

[00:09:06] Eldar: I don't think it's efficient. Right. I don't think it's effective or efficient or it's, uh, it's right from my behalf onto the other individual because I would be forcing something and I don't wanna force anything upon an individual where that individual did not sign up for, because they did not give me permission in order to teach.

[00:09:23] Right. So if they don't gimme permission to teach, I am violating you by trying to teach you. 

[00:09:27] Mm. 

[00:09:27] And that violation I is felt inside of me. I know that it's not correct on my part. Mm-hmm. And then I know that it's also not gonna be effective on their part. Yeah. Right. They're not gonna be able to take in what I'm giving them.

[00:09:39] Mm-hmm. Um, and implement it anyway. 

[00:09:44] Okay. 

[00:09:44] So I'm always constantly searching. I'm trying to pay attention as to like, is that person actually receptive to take in what we're we have to offer? Right. Totally. When this is what totally comes in. Right. And he tries to hammer a lot of the times some of this advice because he's like, yo, when I see ignorance, when I see arrogance, when I see ego and pride, right?

[00:10:04] Like, he's like, it hurts me that. It is stunting that individual from growing. It is stunting that individual from learning. So I have to shoot down that ego and pride. And every time he says that, I, I'll picture those murals on those walls where like the slayers of the ego in Eastern philosophy, right?

[00:10:19] They have they whole, they have the sword, they have this ugly face, and they're like, they wanna fucking shoot you down and stuff. That's what that individual who's ignorant and arrogant in that moment sees totally ass like this bad guy. Right? He's obviously not bad. He's trying to help. Right. But it might be prematurely.

[00:10:39] So how do we, again, the question of today's podcast, right? Find the right timing, right. In order to actually be effective in our, in our efforts to help. 

[00:10:49] Mike: Well this is like a Joey, Joey topic, so I think you gotta tune him in Joey topic. Well, yeah. 'cause he's on the, he's on the to Camp Uhhuh and I think he, he would have a lot of stuff to say about this.

[00:11:00] Uh, really? Yeah. I think he, uh, well, I like that he's on that train. 

[00:11:04] Eldar: Oh, well let's give to a chance, you know, to defend himself here. 

[00:11:07] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:11:07] Eldar: You know, 'cause he is sitting right here. Bat something. He's yawning, man. Oh, you know what, Kat's here. Yay. Wifey. Hey Kat wife. Sit down right there and be quiet. You, 

[00:11:18] Toliy: you always like put someone in some like, like thing where it's like they have to like agree to it, but like you're, you're like throwing some dirt on them at the same 

[00:11:24] Eldar: time.

[00:11:25] Yes. Am I good at it? 

[00:11:27] Toliy: Yeah. It's like you're like throwing something and someone just catches it and you're like, you're holding, holding that. You know, like, yeah. Like, 

[00:11:34] Eldar: alright babe, I'm gonna do a real re a quick recap. 

[00:11:37] Katherine: Hi. 

[00:11:38] Eldar: Yeah. You haven't been in a while 

[00:11:41] Katherine: since Warren was here. 

[00:11:42] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:11:43] Katherine: Oh. 

[00:11:44] Eldar: Um, so the topic of today is, um, the question is how do we find an effective way or the right way or the right timing to teach someone something, right?

[00:11:57] 'cause a lot of times, a lot of people around us, right? They complain, you know, you can hear the complaints everywhere. That's true. Your friends, true. Your mom, your dad, whoever, whatever, whatever, whatever. And guess what? We have advice. We are ready and able, always ready to take it out from our pockets and be the hero, right?

[00:12:12] Mm-hmm. For those individuals because now we, you know, we also have the chance to be righteous, right? Right. To help someone. 

[00:12:17] Mm-hmm. But 

[00:12:18] what we find a lot of the times, right? You tell your dad, Hey dad, you should see this doctor, this doctor, you should take these vitamins, these supplements. Yeah. You should do this therapy.

[00:12:26] I got you dad. I got you. I'm gonna do the leg work. Mm-hmm. And I'll show you everything. Yeah. Uh, a month passes by, Hey dad, what'd you do? Oh, nothing. Uh, you know, he is not Oh, 

[00:12:35] Katherine: I'm, I'm very good at this. Yeah. 

[00:12:38] Eldar: Yeah. So there you go. Yeah. So we're, you know, and guess what if I, I'm in 

[00:12:41] Katherine: that position right now with my dad actually, 

[00:12:43] Eldar: so it's, so this is a very good, this is a very good time, time topic.

[00:12:47] What happens then? Right? You, you were this hero. He gave you the opportunity, quote unquote, to be the hero in his life, and you try to help him out. And you did all the legwork, you did all that stuff, and you don't see any of it pan out. Well, 

[00:12:59] Mike: the thing, the thing the reason I asked you why you don't give advice, I was trying to go like you using the same words is this hero thing.

[00:13:07] Yeah. What if you give advice when not asked, but you actually didn't give a fuck, like to be the hero you're just given, like you're just walking around just like hitting people with the truth, but you don't have an attachment to it. How does that, like, can you do that? Is that different? Because 

[00:13:24] Eldar: the, I'm not sure if that's possible, Mike.

[00:13:26] It's not possible. I don't think it's possible. I think the hero part is the attachment to be To be righteous. 

[00:13:30] Katherine: Yeah. To to be the hero. I have a question. Yeah. Um, in like, in terms of like your opinion? Yeah. That, that question that Mike just asked, like what do you think is the right thing you I would you say that you shouldn't give unsolicited advice like period?

[00:13:45] Ever. 

[00:13:45] Eldar: Ever. I think it's ever. Okay. 

[00:13:46] Katherine: That's what I think you would say. 

[00:13:48] Eldar: Yeah. 'cause 

[00:13:49] Katherine: like I think that we so easily like do it, especially when we care if it's a friend, if it's a family member, whatever, and then. It just bites you in the ass. 'cause then you're like, then you get upset. Like that's why is this person not doing it?

[00:14:01] Especially if it comes to health or something like that. Sorry. It's okay. 

[00:14:05] Mike: But you're getting upset because you are alone. You are giving your attachment. No, you've attached yourself, you yourself, yourself to the end result of your 

[00:14:12] Eldar: advice. But can you do, give advice without being attached to it? But that's a very interesting question and I think we definitely should get into it.

[00:14:18] Yeah's. 

[00:14:18] I think that's what we should do if we can't. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh, do it any other way. If we have to say something. Try not to attach yourself to the fact that they're gonna be, uh, not implementing your advice at all. Yeah. 'cause that's what happens to her. What happens when you 

[00:14:33] Katherine: give Unci advice in the first place?

[00:14:35] They're not asking you for their advice. You're offering it. Oh yeah, no, I know. And then they might never do it. And then you're like, wait a second. You know, 

[00:14:43] Mike: I know I am on the, I'm on the side of not wanting to give unsolicited advice. And obviously I don't, I don't always do that, but I prefer to do it.

[00:14:51] You know, more and more I've learned the importa of it. But I guess also a part of it is that when you also give unsolicited advice, you, um, you also get into a potential conflict with that person because you're attacking something. Uh. That they may have, that 

[00:15:08] Katherine: they might not be ready 

[00:15:09] Mike: to attack, they might not be ready to open up.

[00:15:10] They might feel like, uh, attacked. 

[00:15:12] Katherine: Attacked, yeah. Criticized. So 

[00:15:13] Mike: that's like, that's another side of it of not giving un unsolicited advice. 'cause like, yo, I don't wanna get to arguing with you that like, I don't need that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:15:20] Eldar: And, and a lot of times I'll refrain from giving advice because I filled out, I was already, you know, I, I did the survey, I surveyed the individual, I know exactly where their attachments are lying mm-hmm.

[00:15:30] Uhhuh and what is it that they want. And they're not gonna implement that. What I give, I'd love to be able to give advice. You implement it, you come back to me like, yo, share it with me. And we're both rejoice in the fact that you found fucking results. Great. That would be the always best case scenario. I would love that.

[00:15:44] Mm-hmm. The truth of the matter is, that's not how that works. You know what I mean? Most of the time on the unsolicited advice just falls flat on its face. Nobody does it. Nobody implements anything. Mm-hmm. Right. Um. And then two people actually, I think grow a little bit more apart. Yeah. I think from that, because you start resenting them and all this other crap that comes in.

[00:16:02] Yeah. 

[00:16:02] Katherine: But even though it's your own fault for offering the advice, 

[00:16:06] Eldar: correct. 

[00:16:07] Katherine: Right. Like you perhaps overinvolved yourself in something that didn't involve you. Correct. Now you have a horse in the race possibly. Correct. And then you get upset. That's right. It's so funny how like that Yes. Like how it 

[00:16:17] Eldar: happens.

[00:16:18] Obviously, like I said, 

[00:16:19] Katherine: I just recently went through it. No, I, we go through this all the 

[00:16:21] Eldar: time. Yeah. We, we all go through this all the time because there's plenty of people complaining around us. Yeah. Obviously I think that the happiness, I think like 

[00:16:28] Katherine: it's a, a normal good nature to wanna be like, Hey, you know, like to offer someone like help when, see maybe if they're, if they're suffering 

[00:16:38] Eldar: or whatever, I be careful.

[00:16:38] I'd, I'd be very careful saying that. [00:16:40] I'd be very careful as making that assumption. Because what, the reason why I don't want to give unsolicited advice is because there's a, there's a le level of force or level of pushing that happens when it comes to giving that type of advice. And I don't want to push or be in that type of relationship with an individual where I hold 'em accountable or I'm making them do something that they don't want to do what they're not ready for, and they'll just do it because they respect me, they love me and all this other crap.

[00:17:04] You know what I mean? I, I would love for the people to be able to take the advice on their own accord when they're ready. 

[00:17:10] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:17:11] Eldar: And able, and come to those conclusions on their own. So they, they become the owner and they take ownership of that, what they found. There's no longer my knowledge or my understanding, no, you did the legwork, you found this out, and now it's yours as well.

[00:17:25] You share it Now if you come back to me and share it with me, and we both rejoice on it, this is great. This is the best case scenario. But a lot of times that's not how it works. And I think that's why we're constantly looking for ways to do it. That's why we, this we have in this podcast, the example of totally is, um, of vitamin intakes, right?

[00:17:40] Five years ago when we all got COVID, I mean, when COVID happened, right? What did I do right? I took some books on vitamin C, I took some other books on vitamins or whatever. Mm-hmm. You know, I started doing a little bit of research to see like, okay, what can I do to empower myself in order to not be overwhelmed and scared by the world and vaccines and all this other stuff, right?

[00:17:57] So I did some research. I have empowered myself and I read books, right? Mm-hmm. And I was like, guys, this is, what should we be doing? Mm-hmm. I had an umph, Mike, you blindly followed me and said, yo, I'm gonna take this because Alla did is research. Yeah, totally. Kind of did too. You know? But I know that that doesn't last a lot of the time.

[00:18:12] I'm kind of was, I was like, kind of push, I totally, you, you should take these vitamins, you should do this. You have anxiety, you, you know, let's PR do preventative care. You know, I educated you guys on BT hitting bt, right? Mm-hmm. Like bowel tolerance. When you take too much vitamin C, you're gonna fart a lot.

[00:18:25] Then you're gonna shit your brain, uh, you know, have diarrhea and stuff like that. That's one of them, right? Niacin. The niacin flush, you guys discovered. Right? All these things that I was discovering, I was like, holy shit, let's empower ourselves to feel better, to do better. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

[00:18:36] Yeah. Um, and obviously I wish that well for you, you know what I mean? But I know that those things did not come to fruition to the extent that it came fruition for me. 

[00:18:46] Yeah. 

[00:18:47] Because it's my stuff. Now, totally. Five years later or whatever, you know, two years later, whatever, he's coming to me, he's like, yo, I'm ready for the vitamins now.

[00:18:53] Mm-hmm. I did my own research. He went out there, you know, heard some stuff. He's asking me questions about things that I've never heard of, you know, he's like, yo, you heard about this vitamin, this mineral? Mm-hmm. I'm like, no, I've never heard of that. You know what I mean? 

[00:19:03] Yeah. 

[00:19:04] So now he's being empowered.

[00:19:05] Now he actually's chasing me around to say, I'm ready. And obviously I lost that same interest. I'm like, I already passed that. Like I already have a routine. I'm taking my vitamins. Mm-hmm. I know how to like dose them or whatever, and it works for me. I feel fine. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? I don't feel great, but I feel fine.

[00:19:20] You know? So I don't have the same MPH to be able to promote it to force you guys, you know, and all this other stuff. Now it's on you. If you wanna do it, you do it. You know? So what I'm saying is that ultimately everyone has their own timeline when it comes to receiving certain knowledge, practicing that knowledge, and maybe becoming a little bit more wise.

[00:19:38] Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:38] You know, really benefiting yourself for it. You know, you have your timelines. I have my timelines. Catherine has the timelines. Yeah. Totally Has the timelines. Right. And I think that maybe in this circle we understand this a little bit better and I think that we navigate these waters a little bit better than maybe general pop population.

[00:19:56] But nonetheless, I think it's a very important one to find out how do we maybe extract the most of the best that we can from one, one another's advice? Because we have insights on so many things, um, in such a way where we can actually benefit. Mm-hmm. You know, and maybe in the most efficient way possible, you know?

[00:20:18] So that we don't miss out on Catherine's goodness in her heart that she wants mm-hmm. Her dad to succeed or whatever, or totally is over worrying, you know what I mean, about people's wellbeings and shit like that. You know what I mean? 

[00:20:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:20:30] Eldar: Or is it one of those things where the things are exactly where they're supposed to be, you know what I mean?

[00:20:36] The unsolicited advice is gonna continue to be unsolicited advice and received in such a way where it's not, you know, don't solicit. Right. They have these signs on the fucking doors. Right. Yeah. Why, why do they have that in some businesses? Right? No soliciting. Yeah. Don't fucking bring me your shit. I don't want to hear it.

[00:20:51] You know? Mm-hmm. Because it makes you feel a certain type of way anybody comes through the door who's a strangers, like, yeah, I wanna sell you fucking printer or something, or an ink. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or whatever you like, what the fuck? You get caught off guard, like, I didn't ask for this. Mm-hmm. You know, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, obviously.

[00:21:03] But most of the time, like, yo, we don't wanna be bothered, you know? Yeah. So the question stands, um, do we find the right timelines for each individual does in each individual is custom made in such a way where we really have to zone in and zoom in on that specific person's makeup in order to really properly advise them?

[00:21:29] Well, can there be a general fucking consensus? Everything that's points to that, that there is no general consensus for me. 

[00:21:35] Mike: Yeah. I don't, I don't get how, how that's possible. Yeah. I think it's hard because everybody's at different stages and different like, uh, subjects and different topics and different.

[00:21:47] Like, uh, stages of growth in, in those individual topics, it's very hard to have like a one, 

[00:21:56] Eldar: one rule, general rule. Yeah. That's why when har when we go to vacations and Harris goes, oh, this is so nice, you know, he's reflecting on it. He is like, I wanna move the business here. We look around, right? Yeah. And we're like, all right, cool.

[00:22:10] Like, you know, he really liked Bermuda, but like, he's like now like ready to move the headquarters there. Yeah. We had those conversations already. Yeah. Right. We collectively had those conversations. Yeah. Right. And we know where we stand on those, right? Yeah. But to him, he's different. Right. He's obviously on a different timeline, coming in with different aspirations, different outlook on life and stuff like that.

[00:22:30] So he'll be somewhere different, but he's also 

[00:22:31] Mike: easily deceived. Well, that's true too. In Bermuda, your problems are gonna be the same problems as New Jersey. Yes. True. Correct. Also, like, 

[00:22:39] Katherine: uh, there were like his first vacations. 

[00:22:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:22:42] Katherine: So it's, I feel like it's like a normal thing to like Oh wow. To be, you know, bedazzled, enamored.

[00:22:47] Yeah, for sure. With where you go, for sure. 

[00:22:49] Mike: Yeah. But it's because of the disparity between real life and vacation life, where generally people is, is huge. Yeah. 

[00:22:58] Eldar: You know,

[00:23:02] so we constantly are being solicited to, to help. And should we then help or should we, what should we do? 

[00:23:10] Katherine: I mean, uh, can I, can I pause you one second there? Yeah. What you just said, we are constantly, I think you specifically are, are, are, are specifically constantly asked for help. Yeah. You know, like for advice and things like that, just generally 'cause of who you are.

[00:23:25] I'm a prophet, but I don't think that for everyone else it's like that we might be faced with, uh, situations where we wanna give the advice consistently, but people, if we, if we zoom in on these, each interaction, we may not be asked for advice. Maybe the person is just venting or just complaining. Mm-hmm.

[00:23:45] And we feel like we need to give that advice. But that person may not be saying, Hey Eldar, I need your advice on this. They're just complaining. Or just talking. Yeah. But what's 

[00:23:54] Eldar: the difference between that? Like, someone who's just complaining versus someone coming to me asking me for advice, which they're not gonna take.

[00:24:01] Well, think 

[00:24:01] Katherine: is different from asking, like actually asking someone for help. Like getting the question, I was like, Hey, can you, can you help me out with this? Or I need, I need your advice or your opinion. 

[00:24:11] Eldar: Yeah. But the end result's gonna be the same. I what I'm saying Right. But one of those, 

[00:24:15] Katherine: one of those was on, on, on, on, like unsolicited.

[00:24:19] Eldar: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:24:20] Katherine: Right. Like what we, we spoke about earlier. 

[00:24:22] Eldar: Yeah. But who, who gives them the right to then complain, dump their shit on us if they're not even asking. Right. Well, 

[00:24:28] Katherine: yeah, that's a good argument too, right. Some people say like, oh, you know, you're just dumping 

[00:24:33] Eldar: on me. Why are you dumping on me then?

[00:24:33] Right. Sure you're venting. But did you say like, Hey, uh, Mike gonna do you, you have a second? Can I have five minutes of vent venting right now? I don't want you to do anything. I just want you to sit here, open your ears and just pay attention to me. Vent to you. 

[00:24:45] Katherine: Well, that's the proper way to communicate.

[00:24:47] I've also learned that, you know, that that's the proper thing. It's like, Hey, do you have a second? I have something I wanna get off my chest. That's the proper way. Not everyone does this and people, they just go off because, yeah. Well, that's just improper communication as well. It's like, you know. Yeah. Not having the mindfulness.

[00:25:04] So then 

[00:25:04] Eldar: if you're leading with impro improper communication about your complaints, then it's almost like then gives you the individual who's gonna give you unsolicited advice, right. The right almost. Mm-hmm. To bombard you with their advice in order to do what? And then shut your mouth 

[00:25:17] Katherine: because they bombarded with you with their problem, or they bombarded 

[00:25:21] Eldar: you with their problem.

[00:25:22] You gave them crazy amount of advice, and you like, and you give them stuff to think, and they're like, uh, they're glitching. They're no longer complaining. Mm-hmm. They're not gonna implement their advice. Yeah. They're 

[00:25:31] Katherine: not. 

[00:25:31] Eldar: No. You know, so it's kinda like, it is what it is. Well, 

[00:25:35] Katherine: A like, should you put in the time and effort to give them this advice?

[00:25:39] And then B, should you care about the, the outcome if they do it or not, you know, 

[00:25:44] Eldar: see, 

[00:25:45] Katherine: but c like, also like, are you actually like in the position? Like just because they came and they dumped, uh, whatever it is on you, does that actually make you like worthy? Or should you give the advice just because they, they are complaining.

[00:26:02] Eldar: See, I think that, you know, what we're trying to get to as, as thinking beings, uh, is to the point where we have a choice in all the matters, right? When someone comes to dump to you on you, and you are experiencing this dumping, you're gonna, you're gonna stop them and say, Hey, like, what's happening here?

[00:26:21] Why are you telling me all this? Right. In order to protect yourself in order to maybe set a boundary. Yeah. 

[00:26:26] Katherine: Okay. Are you just venting or do you want my advice? Correct. Yeah. And 

[00:26:29] Eldar: sometimes I've have that with you, right? Yeah. Where me like, you're, you're just rambling about something and now 

[00:26:33] Katherine: I'll communicate.

[00:26:33] I'm like, say, Hey babe, I, I just, I wanna get something off my chest. 

[00:26:36] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:26:37] Katherine: You know? Correct. Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm learning to communicate, but it goes both ways, whether I'm the one complaining 

[00:26:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:42] Katherine: Or needing the advice. That's right. You know? 

[00:26:45] Eldar: Yeah. Because a lot of the times, right, when Catherine comes in with certain things, I give certain advice, I give her certain things, and she goes to therapy and she goes, elder said this about this, and the therapist says, you're not ready for that type of advice yet.

[00:26:57] Mm-hmm. And you gotta go to the baby steps. Mm-hmm. Right? So the therapist almost recognizes like, yo, yo, that's, I'm not there. You're not there yet. You're not ready to implement the stuff that he's giving you, even though he's right. Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:07] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. She'll say, yeah, you gotta go 

[00:27:09] Eldar: back to the basics. 

[00:27:10] Katherine: Like, elder told you exactly what I would tell you.

[00:27:12] Um, but then, you know, we go over some things and maybe I'm not there yet.

[00:27:20] Eldar: Yeah. Correct. 

[00:27:23] So, 

[00:27:23] Katherine: and I, I think that's a prime example of the person not being ready Yeah. For that particular advice. Or maybe they gotta, you know, I. They have to take the longer out, you know, just that's why it's, it's so also specific to person, to person. Everyone is so different and unique in their own ways.

[00:27:40] Eldar: Hmm. I mean, a lot of conflicts obviously stem from what, right. Improper communication. Right. All the wars start. Mm-hmm. Because some misunderstandings not really understanding each other and getting to the, to, to the bottom of things and really focusing on things that make us human. Maybe rather than make us, uh, divisive.

[00:28:05] You know, oh, you're black or you're white, or you're Jewish, you're Muslim. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. You believe this, you believe that the truth of the matter is if you set that down, set these populations down and taped their mouths and like only allow them to listen. Like there's nothing they're gonna be able to disagree with.

[00:28:20] If we say like, uh, motherfuckers, you are all Jewish and you didn't choose to be Jewish, who chose to be Jewish. You know what I mean? Who chose to be Muslim? Who chose to be black? No one. You were just born into it. Yeah. Somehow that's it. You know what I mean? We're all human here, you know? Mm-hmm. I mean, obviously that's the most lame and most fast way to kind of like bridge the gap between them.

[00:28:44] But yeah, like communication, I think proper communication is probably the, maybe the biggest thing that, uh, causes us a lot of our suffering. You know? Teach and teaching will not asked is one of those, 

[00:28:59] Mike: but, um, asking questions, does that fall into the category of teaching? Were not asked. No. Yeah, it doesn't, I think, I think that's the, I think that's where we have to get to.

[00:29:09] Did again, 

[00:29:09] Katherine: Mike, did you say asking questions? Asking 

[00:29:11] Mike: questions like that are pretty like, you know, lead, I don't don't wanna say leading, but questions that are kind of like, 

[00:29:16] Katherine: they're definitely leading questions. They could lead in, 

[00:29:18] Mike: they could be leaning, but also that'll make you think 

[00:29:21] Eldar: Well, that's why I think what we, we have to go towards.

[00:29:23] Yeah. We have to go towards trying to make all, all the parties think in that, that relationship. 

[00:29:28] Yeah. 

[00:29:28] Because without that Right. Somebody's gonna start feeling a certain level of attachment or suffering Yeah. And then not gonna get what they want. 

[00:29:35] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:29:36] Eldar: You know, so 

[00:29:38] Mike: yeah. I think that's the,

[00:29:42] that's the way to give advice without giving it

[00:29:48] Eldar: what you're asking for. Again, what I was talking about is that you would like for the person to gain certain level of autonomy 

[00:29:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:29:55] Eldar: And empower themselves to be able to say, you know what? I can like try to figure this thing out. Mm-hmm. Somehow. 

[00:30:01] Yeah. 

[00:30:02] You know? 

[00:30:03] Yeah.

[00:30:11] What's your problem? 

[00:30:13] Katherine: Never ending. 

[00:30:14] Eldar: Yeah. Alright. Totally. You have anything for us or should we call Joe? Yeah, I mean, um, 

[00:30:22] Toliy: I'm hearing what you guys are saying. 

[00:30:24] Eldar: Because you are the, you're the fucking you. You are guilty as charged dude. Yeah. When it comes to this shit. Oh, sure. But you're guilty as fucking charge in what sense?

[00:30:32] Katherine: And giving the advice or the complaining. 

[00:30:34] Eldar: Totally. 

[00:30:36] Mike: That was rhetorical. 

[00:30:37] Eldar: Yeah. You know, I think you hit both things. That was, it was kind of mean. 

[00:30:42] Katherine: No, you're 

[00:30:43] Eldar: saying that, that he's appropriate person. I don't dunno which side he's, I think you hit the both nails if totally was the nail, you are a hammer. Yes.

[00:30:50] Yes. You are the hammer. I, 

[00:30:52] Katherine: I don't know I'm asking. No, 

[00:30:54] Eldar: I think on both sides he's guilty. Okay. Okay. 

[00:30:56] Katherine: Well, I would say a lot of us are, you know, 

[00:30:58] Eldar: yeah, fine, fine. But a lot of times what we're talking about right now, at least, the fact that totally has a very good ability to see and foresee ignorance, arrogance.

[00:31:08] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And maybe 10 steps ahead for an individual who's ignorant and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Right. So he has a hard time internalizing their journey into suffering, which he is aware of is gonna happen if they don't take his advice. Okay. You paid attention to that. 

[00:31:29] Katherine: Yeah, that's basically what we were saying.

[00:31:31] Yeah. He sees 

[00:31:31] Eldar: a hole right here. You about to get up. Yeah. He knows I'm gonna, he knows you're about to fall into it, right? Mm-hmm. You don't know what it's there. He knows it's there. You about to hurt your ankle, you're gonna sprain your ankle. You're gonna suffer for the next month. Right. He's not okay with sitting back.

[00:31:45] Right. And ask, you know, waiting for you to say, Hey guys, I know that sometimes there's holes here. You know, do you guys know if there's a hole here? Right. He's not okay for waiting there. He's gonna say, Catherine, there's a hole right there. You know, you are like, come on, leave me alone. You know? Mm-hmm.

[00:31:58] Whatcha talking about? He has a hard time. Okay. Oh, refraining, asking questions, taking his time to see where the person's at, whether or not they're ready for advice in order to better themselves. 

[00:32:10] Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:10] Because he wants to shoot down the arrogance. He wants to shoot down the ignorance and ego before it flares up.

[00:32:16] Katherine: Okay. 

[00:32:18] Eldar: A lot of times what we're talking about, don't give this unsolicited advices to allow the person, if they have those strong attachments, to play those things out 

[00:32:25] Katherine: mm-hmm. Fall 

[00:32:25] Eldar: flat on their face. 

[00:32:26] Katherine: Well, that, that is their lesson to learn. 

[00:32:28] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:32:29] Katherine: For sure. Correct. But, but I understand that position. Yeah, 

[00:32:32] Eldar: both.

[00:32:33] Toliy: Yeah. So, um, I hear what you guys are saying. I mean, I mean, I agree with a lot of it. Um, like, um, so, so, so I was thinking about a few things. One is like, all right, like the, the, the whole concept of like only teaching when asked is like, especially in this dynamic is a very interesting one, right? Like, because like, um, one, like if I'm participating in a conversation with somebody else, I'm definitely like, like I, like I view, I, I view it.

[00:33:10] An official for me if like I get like challenged or advice in like multiple ways, right? Like, um, I'm okay with like [00:33:20] my ego flaring up and me potentially like getting upset at this advice because I know that afterwards I think I'm at a point where I can, even if I mess up in the moment, that I can reflect on it afterwards and see what happened here.

[00:33:32] Oh, like, okay, like, uh, uh, this person had a good point, right? Or like, yeah, but I shouldn't have reacted that way, but the words used that I'm outta a place. Well, well, yeah. Well, hold on. Lemme, lemme finish. Um, so like that, right? And then like, or like, like, like if I'm engaging in conversation, like I don't want any kind of like, um, like robotic or like, just like, you know, like fake whatever things fake.

[00:33:59] Like, you know, like I either want like to be challenged and be like, yo, you know what? You have a good point. Like, yeah, this, or like be, because to, to me, this whole timeline of like, when you're ready to, to see, to get like, um, advice is so weird because like, we all have moments of like, like, like if we wanna describe our life in like a, uh, like an energy bar that goes from like zero to a hundred points, right?

[00:34:23] I dunno if we're ever at any place where we're at like a hundred where we're like full completely, you know. But, um, we have all these like ups and downs and like somewhere in the middle, sometimes higher below, right? And like the way that we operate and like the words that we use. It's not consistent in the fact that like, we could be saying that like, yes, hey, I want help.

[00:34:45] And then like, and then like two weeks later, like, we forget about it. But like, that person did raise their hand at one point, or like they're in this environment. Like to me, if like if you're in this environment, you're by default saying that you want help, like by default, like, like how can you by default, 

[00:35:02] Mike: um, a person who's conscious and knows what they're signing up for?

[00:35:05] Toliy: Well, no, they don't have to be. Because the good thing is that like, uh, I was, I was talking to Elder about this, is that a lot of people have like, um, they, everyone has internal timelines or everybody has like, desires, right? Mm-hmm. And when those are vocalized, and then they're said, oh, oh, okay, like, this is what you want to do, right?

[00:35:23] Like, you can try to help someone in whatever way or outline a particular plan or like go about things in like a particular way. And they always prove that like they're not really about that life and they're not gonna go do all of those things. Or like, right. No, no one's gonna be like, Hey, like, yeah, you know what?

[00:35:39] I'm probably not gonna be able to really learn much or be like, established for like, for the next like 20 years. Like, you know, like, no, no one like puts himself on that kind of like long, long-term plan, you know? So, um, my, um, like the point I have that the, the, the point I have I'm trying to make is that I feel like, like if you're in this environment, like I, I don't know how you can.

[00:36:04] The these like, yes, I'm down for advice, or no, I'm not down for advice. Like for me, it's very confusing because the words that people use, like it, it's, it's not indicative to how they actually feel. And they always prove that out. Like, it's like Harris says like, Hey, yeah guys, I wanna succeed. And then you try to help him.

[00:36:21] And then he is like, well, no, I don't wanna do that. 

[00:36:23] Katherine: Well, I mean, she's, whatcha, whatcha 

[00:36:25] Eldar: talking about? But, uh, you know, but that's because we didn't do a good job then 

[00:36:29] Toliy: defining the word success. Well, well, no, we talk about like, very particular things, or like, accomplishing things or like learning a concept, right.

[00:36:37] Well like, okay, if this is what you wanna do, let's do it. Or like, yeah, like you're giving example, Harris is saying that he's in pain. What do I do? You give him things and then there's all these conditional things, which leads me to believe that like, it's not that bad. Yeah. It's not that bad. This is what I'm saying.

[00:36:52] And we, and we all prove that. Yeah. Like, it may sound bad at times. Like someone says, like, something sounds bad. Like they're desperate or they're, they're down bad to ready to jump 

[00:37:01] Eldar: off the bridge. 

[00:37:01] Toliy: Yeah. Or like, you know, different things. But then they prove that like, okay, like, you're down bad. All right, let's do this.

[00:37:08] Let's start walking. Let's start doing this. No, I'm not, I don't wanna walk alone. All right, well, let's like, uh mm-hmm. Let, let's go do that. Or let, actually I don't, sneakers are not 

[00:37:17] Katherine: good for walking. Yeah, that's true. They, 

[00:37:20] Toliy: they, they have their reasons as to why what you're saying is not gonna work. Yeah. So, but I still think that, like, even at times, like, see like the, the, the thought of not giving this solicited advice, like the whole concept to me at times is like, I.

[00:37:34] Confusing because these same people are constantly sharing things with you and like, like, like, like the mm-hmm. Not saying stuff in, in, in, in private, and then you're finding out about it. Correct. And then like Correct. They're sharing things with you. Well, like if you're gonna share shit with me, like, like, like what kind of, like, do you want me, like, do you want me to be the AI that we were talking about yesterday where I'm like, but who, who is?

[00:37:57] We'll keep it up kiddo. Like, you know, like, who's, you got this bud? Do you know who's, 

[00:38:01] Mike: who's responsible? The teacher or the student to know the journey that lies had? Yeah, we're going back to that question. Well, 

[00:38:06] Toliy: I, I, I think it's always going to be the, um, like the, the, uh, the teacher I guess who, who knows.

[00:38:13] So assuming 

[00:38:14] Mike: that the teacher knows. Yeah. Assuming the teacher knows. Yeah. As the teacher. Do you know what journey that, let's say anybody comes to you for advice is signing up for you have an idea of the path 

[00:38:23] Toliy: of like what, what journey there's of what's it gonna 

[00:38:25] Mike: require of that person to make the change from where they are now to where they need to be?

[00:38:30] Toliy: Like, of like the, the, the exact path. 

[00:38:33] Mike: Well, a pretty good outline of idea of it. I don't think exact is possible. Um, but, you know, 

[00:38:37] Toliy: well, like, sure. Yeah. 

[00:38:39] Mike: Okay. Does the student who's coming for advice know the, have an idea of what that path's gonna look like? No. So how can we expect him to act in this way that you're saying That's odd.

[00:38:50] It's confusing. One day he says yes. One day he says, no. I think that's normal for a person. Well, well, yes. Why they need to ask though? 

[00:38:56] Toliy: Why do they, why do they need to ask for advice then? If they don't know to they're pain. Well 

[00:39:01] Katherine: think maybe it's improper communication. You know how we were saying earlier, well, where you're pain, do 

[00:39:05] Toliy: you vocalize it?

[00:39:06] Yes. No, but like if the student, it's improper communication. If we're saying that the, that the student does doesn't know shit, why, why do they, why are they the ones that need to ask the teacher for help? 

[00:39:15] Mike: Who's gonna ask for help? The teacher's. The teacher's gonna ask the student. Well, the 

[00:39:18] Toliy: teacher can just like know what the process is.

[00:39:21] Mm-hmm. And, and, and, uh, um, dose the right amount of challenging and the right amount of jokes and the right amount of ra raising awareness. 

[00:39:29] Mike: Well, if the teacher knows the right dose, then he would give the proper advice and have the proper set of expectations. Okay. So then 

[00:39:34] Toliy: that would not require the student to ask for advice?

[00:39:37] Mike: No, it would, first he has to ask you for advice. Why, though? 

[00:39:40] Toliy: Why, why does he have to ask if he doesn't even know? Let, well write. How can you, 

[00:39:44] Mike: how can he ask you for advice? Like how would that work? You would just, you're talking about initially 

[00:39:49] Toliy: Yeah. Like to, to, to me, like day one when Harris comes in here.

[00:39:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:53] Toliy: Right. As soon as he signs up to me that that's it. 

[00:39:58] Eldar: Oh, you see anything 

[00:39:59] Toliy: goes? Yeah. Like that's, that's like you signing a contract. 

[00:40:02] Mike: Right. Are you saying this now after 15 years in the program? Or you who you were when you did day one in the program? 

[00:40:08] Toliy: No, I'm saying this, this is 

[00:40:09] Mike: how it should be 

[00:40:10] Eldar: For who?

[00:40:11] That's interesting because like, that's hard. That's crazy. Think to sign up for. Um, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let, lemme Okay. That sounds, you know what, I have actual good example right now. Um, a good contrast to, to bring this up, right? For Harris. Mm-hmm. Who doesn't know shit from shit. Let alone to know who we are.

[00:40:28] Mm-hmm. Right. Aside from the fact that like Elder used to be a YP coordinator. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Totally used to be part of the program. We volunteered, we did good things or whatever. Harris doesn't know shit from shit. No. Who we are, what we do, and how we do it. Mm-hmm. Let alone this elder isn't bullshit.

[00:40:41] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. So for totally to say like, yo, you come in here and you sign up, you don't know what you signed up for. Just like, I think that the kids that go to Army don't know what they sign up for, right? Mm-hmm. They go out there, they start shooting their fucking friends blow up in front of them.

[00:40:55] Mm-hmm. Like, oh shit, I didn't know this was happening. You know? 

[00:40:58] Yeah. 

[00:40:58] And they bug out and they have P ts D and all this other stuff. Depression and suicides and all this other stuff. Right? So I think it's unfair, however. Mm-hmm. I have contrast here, like, was 

[00:41:06] Katherine: Harris given a disclaimer? Like, Hey, you walk in through this door and I'm gonna talk.

[00:41:09] This is your contract and this is where you're held like accountable. And I'm gonna talk about the disclaimer. 

[00:41:12] Eldar: The reason why I wanna bring this all full circle is that I'm giving you the contrast. I think you need to hear this contrast, James. Hey guys, I'm raising my hand now. Mm-hmm. I get it. 

[00:41:24] Yeah. 

[00:41:25] I didn't fuck with you before.

[00:41:27] I wanna fuck with you now. Well, guess what? Yeah, ask totally my rhetoric to James now ask him. Like, uh, go ahead. Totally. Well, 

[00:41:38] Toliy: yeah, I mean, it's very like, uh, it's very different. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's different. It's different. Yeah. It's very, um, 

[00:41:42] Eldar: firm. It's very firm. Yeah. It's straight up. Yeah. This is what it is.

[00:41:46] Mm-hmm. You know why? Because before, right. Where James used to quote unquote fuck with us. Mm-hmm. Like, maybe Harris is fucking with us right now. Mm-hmm. Right. Where do we land? Where do we end up with Yeah. We have conflict. Yeah. We have misunderstanding. Mm-hmm. We didn't understand each other, you know what I mean?

[00:42:02] Mm-hmm. Now there's a clear shift of like, understanding of what's actually going on. Right. He's claiming. Mm-hmm. It's like, oh shit, you guys are my tribe. I wanna fuck with you. I fuck with you. Now I want to be guided. 

[00:42:15] Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:15] All right, James. Now I'm removing the veil from before. Mm-hmm. Right. From cuddling you to telling you exactly how it is.

[00:42:23] Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? You can't as James have the same qua quarrels with me with Totally Right. Coming in here. Yeah. You can't mm-hmm. We know something. Yeah. That you don't. Yeah. Okay. You want something that we have. Mm-hmm. Before it was a different dynamic. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He knew something. Yes.

[00:42:47] That we didn't. Yes. He wanted to oppress it and to unto us and onto totally. Mm-hmm. We had conflict. Yeah. Now I'm telling him, my man, it's on you. Mm-hmm. It's a very specific conversation, which totally didn't like, we can talk about that later. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. But I was very strict, very straightforward.

[00:43:04] Even though I was doing it for, for totally. And for myself and for everyone involved of course. Right. Because I'm setting a precedent that's like what's actually going on here. 

[00:43:11] Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:12] You know what I'm saying? And the truth of the matter is, if you can mold into it, you can see it, you can feel it, you can fuck with it and you can succeed here, but it's very specific.

[00:43:21] Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:23] You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. So I'm giving you the contrast that now clear terms. I have completely different conversation with James than I had before, of course. But we're not on the same page before. Well, yeah. And now I'm trying to get on the same page. Mm-hmm. I'm the same elder as always been.

[00:43:39] I was that same elder back then. I just could, I was biting my tongue back then and I was holding myself. 'cause I wasn't ready to give that to him. He wasn't ready to take that in. Mm-hmm. Now he is, he's more receptive. Yeah. So I'm like, yo, these are the red flags, bro. This is who we are, bro. 

[00:43:57] Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:57] You're not gonna come here and try to oppress us.

[00:44:00] You know what I'm saying? You have to align in a very specific culture mm-hmm. A very specific dynamic that we have, and that's how it is. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:44:08] Toliy: Yeah. And, and, and, and that's what I'm saying though. But, but, but, but it's also like, like, like him coming over here, or for example, Harris being here, like, like the door is right there, you know, like anyone could like stay or leave at any time Right.

[00:44:25] If you don't like it. Right. And I think that they do. Yeah. And I think at 

[00:44:28] Eldar: the moment when you, when the challenge becomes a little bit hard Totally. Because nobody realize, right. Nate comes in, ah, you know, I want to hang out, I want to chill, yada yada. And then when we call him out about his behavior mm-hmm.

[00:44:41] In the world, which he thinks is correct, right? Mm-hmm. He gets all flustered. Mm-hmm. He's like, oh shit, I didn't sign up for that. Yeah. Go teach me. You know what I mean? Who the fuck are you? You know what I mean? That starts to flare up. Mm-hmm. So not everyone is ready for willing and understand what they're signing up for.

[00:44:58] No. Because this motherfucker is a gauntlet. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Well, Katherine only comes here once a year. Mm-hmm. But she knows well that this, this stuff was being said here, people are paying attention, people are listening, right? Mm-hmm. They're challenging her and it's gonna fucking hurt.

[00:45:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:13] Eldar: You know what I mean? Not always people can intake what we we're talking about here for face value because it does hurt the ego. 

[00:45:20] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:20] Eldar: And the ego is alive and well and is thriving. 

[00:45:24] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. But, but yeah. Yeah. So with that said, like that, that to me is like, if you're gonna be here, you're gonna stick around, you're gonna share whatever you wanna share.

[00:45:33] Right? Like, like it, it, it's very like, to me difficult to, not, not, not difficult, but like, it's a very weird thing of like, Hey, this time I'm not asking for advice, but this time I am. Or like this. Well, nobody's gonna 

[00:45:45] Eldar: function that way. Totally. Well, no one's, but they are functioning that way without saying it that way.

[00:45:50] Well, that's exactly what's happening. Well, well, yeah, sure. But for example, we're ones, for example, the, if we're the teachers, quote unquote teachers, it's the burden is on us to be able to decode the moments mm-hmm. That these people put us into. No, 

[00:46:01] Toliy: no, no. I know, but I'm saying that like, like there's plenty of times where like, you guys have said something to me and either I wasn't ready to understand it or like go over it or like apply it or what, whatever it was.

[00:46:15] But nonetheless, like, like the, the, the timing of like, like the question that we're asking here is like, when is somebody ready to learn? And I think at all time, like at all different times, we prove that we are both ready and not ready to learn. And it's a very much moment to moment basis, depending on true, how much conscious suffering we have that we're conscious about, and how much we're ready.

[00:46:40] Like how much energy we have to like, um, devote to it or like how much understanding we have. And like, there, there to, to, to me, there is no such thing that someone is like, ready to like, learn almost, because it's like. Everyone's always ready and not ready to learn at the same time. I agree 

[00:46:57] Eldar: with that. 

[00:46:58] Toliy: And this moment is fleeting in, in all different directions.

[00:47:01] But nonetheless, like anytime you guys ever challenge me on, on like anxiety or like anything, like all those things, like, I've not forgotten about anything. I can remember everything like this. You know? So all of those things that I was ready at different times or not ready to take on, like nonetheless, I heard them right.

[00:47:21] And they, and they like that will forever lead to suffering. Like, like, like what? What? Once you understand something or you see something, you can't like unsee it, right? So you will forever now suffer with that thing until you do something about it. About it. Agreed. Especially in this environment where that thing gets highlighted all the time for forever.

[00:47:40] Mm-hmm. You know? Yes. So like, that, that thing is now, now, like you threw something that like, I didn't see that's in my bag and now I have it in my bag and I know it's there, so I'm gonna keep carrying this thing and I'm gonna have moments of like, chipping away at it and then putting it down, chipping away at it, putting it down, um, based on like my energy, energy and my capacity and my consciousness for suffering.

[00:48:03] But nonetheless, it's forever there. And I can never unsee it. Never, I can never unthink the un unthink those things. And I can never like unfeel those things. Right. 

[00:48:12] Eldar: Is that, does, is that universally for everyone? 

[00:48:16] Toliy: So, so I think that's universally for everybody because, um, one, like, like, because you're very acute 

[00:48:22] Eldar: when it comes to your stuff.

[00:48:23] You're very like, you know, I. Acute, those things are acute in you. 

[00:48:26] Toliy: Well, because I have a, uh, be be because I have a, uh, on both sides, a very exaggerated imagination. For, for, 

[00:48:33] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:48:34] Toliy: For, for all kinds of things, you know? 

[00:48:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:36] Toliy: Um, but humans are social beings. You, you don't operate with, like, with, without being social and, and like, so social, not even talking about that.

[00:48:45] Like you physically in person, like speak to somebody. Yeah. You know, like you're, you're constantly consuming information that's like, created by somebody else, or someone you're watching a video of someone else talking, or like, yeah. Whatever it is you, you, everyone needs, and everybody craves that type of dynamics.

[00:49:02] You're constantly going to be sharing things and relating and not being able to relate and then trying to figure out why or like, you know, what's going on. But, but so, so, so like, to, to tie it back, it's like, like I have a difficulty in like, if we're gonna engage in a conversation, like, like if, if you, if you're, if you can't give feedback or you can't challenge, or you can't do any of that, like, when, when like seen then, like, I don't understand what the point of this like, conversation is.

[00:49:33] That, that to me is like, where like, maybe, maybe AI would be more helpful to like, like, uh, like to, to like vent, for example, right? 

[00:49:41] Eldar: Hmm. 

[00:49:41] Toliy: Like, AI is a perfect thing to vent to. It's not gonna teach you if you like, right. It's just gonna, you're gonna, they're gonna hear you out and like, you know, cheer you up a little bit, right?

[00:49:50] Mm-hmm. But like. It's very difficult for me to be the person to like, to vent to. And then not like, because I'm like a living creature. Like, I'm not like a, like I'm a [00:50:00] living and thinking creature. 

[00:50:01] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:50:01] Toliy: And like, you're definitely a creature. Especially when Yeah. Yeah. Especially when someone is like saying something to, to me, I'm right away thinking like, I'm processing, I'm thinking like, I'm paying attention.

[00:50:10] Like, like I'm trying to figure out what are you actually saying? Like, what's like this? So like, yeah. I just feel, I think So 

[00:50:19] Katherine: you don't, you don't like the, uh, I guess the, the notion of like refraining 

[00:50:23] Eldar: from giving us solicited advice of just 

[00:50:24] Katherine: listening to the person and not having to actually like, solve anything for them, or, you know, just listening, 

[00:50:31] Toliy: just Well, yeah.

[00:50:32] I, I definitely find it a very weird dynamic, right? Mm-hmm. Because like, I'm not like an, an inanimate object, right? 

[00:50:39] Eldar: Where like, I'm just, I definitely don't do that. He You don't do that. What? I don't do this what he's saying. He's more talking about the robotic thing where he's a robot though. No, no, he's not mean, not a robot.

[00:50:48] Mean, it's interesting because he's saying 

[00:50:50] Katherine: like, if you don't want my opinion or my advice, then like, go to ai. Where, where they're not gonna correct. You know, I guess like challenge or whatever. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. He, but like, he more so like says, but that, but that is also part of just like a, a, a friendship like interaction.

[00:51:03] You know? Also he's saying 

[00:51:04] Eldar: is that, yeah, we we're constantly falling in and out of the moments of I want advice. I don't own advice, I want advice. I want advice. Mm-hmm. And because of that, like that's hard to track. So you might as well, he might as well just pay attention and listen and say like, you're complaining.

[00:51:16] I'm gonna give you the fucking advice. 'cause like, you're fucking complaining. You know what I mean? It is what it is. And wherever it lands or wherever it lands. 

[00:51:23] Toliy: Yeah. Like, like, and, and, and, and like, like, like, and, and, and like, I know I'm looking at this now, but I'm saying that like, I know if I tell something to aldar, like, like whatever is needed at that moment, whether it's like saying like, Hey, you have a good point.

[00:51:40] Hey, you're completely off. Hey, you're a dumb dumbass, like trolling me. Like there's gonna be some kind of reaction that, that it's gonna require me to have some kind of level of thinking to, uh, to figure out what is he actually saying, right? But like, you at least get the opportunity to like, to now think something back.

[00:51:57] Right. And now get an opportunity to, to do something. Right. That's an 

[00:52:01] Eldar: interesting way to engage me. 

[00:52:03] Toliy: Like 

[00:52:03] Eldar: she, he has a completely different engagement with me. Well, 

[00:52:05] Toliy: you, you win no matter what in like a way, right? Because like, okay, my, my ego can flare up and I can be like, I dunno, maybe nasty back. Right.

[00:52:13] Okay. Now that gives me a chance to afterwards reflect on what happened here. Like how, how did that happen? Right. Okay. Scenario two, like, uh, he challenged me on something and I gave some kind of excuse. Right. And then like, um, um, like it kind of ended there. Okay. Like, this happened. All those processes and, and no matter what scenario plays out here, right?

[00:52:35] Either like the, I don't know, like in the moment, best or worst one, I still walk away with like, okay, something actually happened here and like there was a chemical reaction, right? Yeah. But 'cause like two chemicals mixed together we're oftentimes, like, if you're, if nothing happens, it's almost like there's two chemicals and they're in, like, separated cylinders just standing next to each other, and they're not like, touching almost, you know?

[00:52:57] So it's like, not like, like there there, there's no like exchange of like thoughts or like energy like there, right? Because like, it's like, 

[00:53:05] Eldar: but, but I think he's grown into this, like he's learned over time. That's, I wanna say, to be able to appreciate again, yeah. And to be able to take in everything part of life.

[00:53:13] He's, he's doing an 

[00:53:13] Mike: advanced thing. Yes. You know, like, again, Harris is brand new to this, right? Yeah. Yesterday Harris was complaining, or the day before that he is tired, like blah, blah, blah. All this stuff in the group chat, right? He's complaining and all this is yo go to sleep. You know, he's complaining.

[00:53:30] He's like asking what do I do? He's asking for advice. You don't tell 'em like, okay, you know what? Get up, go for a fucking walk or, or go eat a fucking, uh, piece of oatmeal. You, you have to give him the person advice where they're at. Harris is not ready because he's, he's a completely finished, he's a physically shape, he's shit.

[00:53:48] Yeah. But when you're like, you're in bad shape. No, no. I can tell you to go walk for an hour. 

[00:53:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:52] Mike: To you it's like, okay. To him it's like blood times a thousand. 

[00:53:57] Toliy: No, no. I know, but I'm saying like in the moment of like, if someone's in a bad, if any, if, if we're in a bad place. Mm-hmm. Right. We're, we're, we're gonna be that dumb ass that's not ready to do anything regardless or hear anything regardless.

[00:54:10] Right? Mm-hmm. Regardless of like our development at, at that time. Like, you can't, like the 

[00:54:17] Mike: No, I don't believe that. I think, I think you, you have evolved from the way you used to take the information. Agree, 

[00:54:24] Eldar: I agree. Is evolved. You might 

[00:54:25] Mike: be a retard in that moment, but you still learning a thousand x more than Harris would learn if he had the same interaction with eldar and exact same topic and exact same moment in time.

[00:54:36] Well, no, no. Sure. But I'm saying that it would be 

[00:54:38] Toliy: a thousand x, but, but I still think that like we're, like the information that's being given and the challenges, even though they're not able to be like met or like Understood. I still think that they're being lodged somewhere and they're being planted somewhere, and now that person Sure.

[00:54:52] Like their bag becomes heavier, like you keep adding all these rocks. Fine. 

[00:54:55] Eldar: Fine. Got it. Got it. Okay. I understand what he's saying. I agree with that, right? But there's a two people that are having this, this interaction. You 

[00:55:05] Toliy: and me. One more thing I wanted to add. Okay. When you keep doing that, when you keep putting all these rocks, right, in his backpack, like in, in that person's bag, they're actually not even aware of it.

[00:55:14] They're, you're like secretly placing them. And all of a sudden to, to, to me, the progression of life is that you realize that you have all these bags on you all, all, all these rocks on you, right? And then you start thinking, well, how do they get there? What's going on? What are they? And what happens is that the person that challenged you to begin with before started putting all these rocks, now they help you remember these things when you're ready to, to start talking about them or addressing them.

[00:55:40] And those things have been with you for a while. So you have some re some like relationship with them because like, people are forever pointing these things out of your stupidity, right? And, and then the, the stupidity grows and grows and grows and grows and it becomes too, too heavy to, to carry anymore.

[00:55:57] And then I think that's when you're ready to have that conversation. But nonetheless, like the, like if Harris didn't like any of this, like, like he would never share any of these things. He would talk only in private, I guess, or like, I, I, no, like he would never like tell me anything or like, um, not that he probably tells me everything but.

[00:56:18] Um, like he still talks out loud. He still complains out loud. He still like, says like, well, you didn't even gimme any advice. You know, like, all all, but are you mis misreading actually 

[00:56:27] Mike: for what's happening? Well, I mean by him coming here in the crowd and saying stuff Yeah. It actually shows his, potentially, he shows his stupidity, which is, he's pretty stupid.

[00:56:36] He gets in trouble. He stops into the same puddle with everybody all the time. The same exact thing. His progress will be in the fact that he will be discriminating against us Yeah. To 

[00:56:46] Eldar: know who to come for 

[00:56:47] Mike: that will for progress if he stops coming to you for certain things or me for certain things and we start coming elder or like vice 

[00:56:52] Eldar: versa.

[00:56:53] Correct. Loop it around. And I, I tell this to Catherine all the time, but what I was trying to add, um, to Tony's point is that sure, maybe we figure it out that you know about him being able to receive unsolicited advice and receive any type of advice because he develops certain, certain thick skin, right?

[00:57:10] Mm-hmm. And the dynamic between me and him, for example, you and him, right? Mm-hmm. When we give him advice, right. It's very specific in particular. Mm-hmm. Right? Where he's able to take in all the nonsense, all the reactions that I'm able to give him. Mm-hmm. It could be, it can be advice, it could be trolling, it can be yelling at him or whatever.

[00:57:28] Mm-hmm. Gracefully. 

[00:57:29] Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:30] He's leveled up to that. Yeah. But the truth of the matter is, right. 

[00:57:33] Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:33] Um, and I enjoy that process. I obviously enjoy the fact that he has that ability. Mm-hmm. I don't have the same ability with Catherine, for example. 

[00:57:43] Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:43] I know that there's certain things that I'm gonna be able to say, which are.

[00:57:47] Packed with knowledge of wisdom. Mm-hmm. Captain's gonna be like, oh, you're making fun of me. What the fuck? Mm-hmm. She's definitely developed a lot thicker skin. Mm-hmm. Right. Over the years. But nonetheless, I know that totally is way ahead of her when it comes to shooting shit straight. 

[00:58:02] Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:03] You know what I mean?

[00:58:03] I know Kat is a lot more sensitive. Yeah. You are more sensitive too. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Because I know you guys, right? Mm-hmm. And ultimately, I think you are building up to the fact that to have straightforward conversations mm-hmm. The, the types that totally enjoys and likes to have with people.

[00:58:17] Mm-hmm. Right. Uh, without people getting all their panties in a bunch, or even if they do, it doesn't never become to a point where it breaks our relationship or friendship mm-hmm. Or whatever it is. Right. It all comes back to reflecting, thinking it through and rising above. Mm-hmm. Let's just say. Right.

[00:58:35] But, but there's a kicker here. The student and teacher dynamic, A very specific one. Right. If totally is asking me the for advice, and I give him, shoot it straight up and I receive exactly what I want and I'm not agro, I don't feel a certain type of way. If he's not really angry at me, even if he is angry at me, I can take it.

[00:58:55] And we have a dynamic that is pleasant for both and both parties come out of the conversation, um, more fulfilled, more understanding, more patient or whatever, then that's a win-win. 

[00:59:08] Mm-hmm. 

[00:59:10] Sure. A lot of the times, the unsolicited advice that totally gives out, for example, to Harris, and it gets Harris to a place of what.

[00:59:17] Real, genuine anger. 

[00:59:20] Katherine: Right. I was gonna think like maybe frustration real. Which, 

[00:59:23] Toliy: which, which, which at times is a good thing. 

[00:59:25] Eldar: No, no, no. A hundred percent. It's a good thing. Yeah. Overall, right? Yeah. 'cause we are here to buffer him. Buffer it, right. We are here to remind Harris when he goes to that place, like, yo, my man totally is the next level boss.

[00:59:37] And he actually wishes you well, despite the fact mm-hmm. That you're, you have blinders on. You don't see it right now. Trust me. Mm-hmm. Take out word for it. Like blind trust shit. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. But totally doesn't feel good through 

[00:59:49] Mike: that. No, that's the thing. You can't. Start the fire and then not eat the smoke.

[00:59:55] Correct. 

[00:59:57] Eldar: Mike that go, oh my God, we haven't had a t-shirt for you in a while, Mike, eat the smoke. That was good pen. I'm okay. Everything's fine. You don't have KISS me. This 

[01:00:08] Katherine: is absolutely your guys' lingo. 

[01:00:10] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:00:11] Katherine: Like that. That is, listen, it was understood percent. Everybody understood. Only understood by why, by by finance.

[01:00:17] Anybody who 

[01:00:18] Eldar: followed this conversation clearly understood this. This is, this is very good. This is very, this is 

[01:00:22] Katherine: definitely a, your guys is saying very fine. For 

[01:00:25] Eldar: sure. 

[01:00:25] Katherine: You 

[01:00:25] Eldar: can't 

[01:00:26] Toliy: start, I just, I understand the lingo now, the smoke, I don't think anyone has ever referred to smoke. Like if you consume it by 

[01:00:32] Katherine: Exactly.

[01:00:35] Toliy: Inhaling or like a breathing, but the 

[01:00:37] Katherine: imagery is actually very funny. Yes. Like imagining someone trying to, you picture, right. Yeah. Trust like a Pacman, you know, eating the smoke, you 

[01:00:45] Eldar: know? 

[01:00:46] Yes. Right. Because that tells me what then you somehow are still not satisfied with your own approach. Mm-hmm. Right?

[01:00:54] Despite the fact that yes, if you pack a punch, it has a lot of wisdom nuggets and stuff like that. Yeah. Which might be lodged so deeply that this person will fucking understand it in 10 years. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But the truth of the matter is we want to understand it in six months, but 

[01:01:08] Katherine: it's not about what we want.

[01:01:10] Right. 

[01:01:10] Eldar: Well, no, it is about what we want. Totally gives advice for what reason. He's a greedy pig. What does he want, baby? What does he want? What, what do you want from your dad? 

[01:01:21] Katherine: Well, yeah, you, you, you want to like, you want to, you wanna actualize your advice. Yeah. You want them to avoid the suffering. But I think there's also a very selfish part of me that also, it's not just for his own good.

[01:01:34] Yeah. Right. But there's a selfishness in there for myself. 

[01:01:37] Eldar: Correct. You know, and that is what we're talking 

[01:01:39] Mike: about. 

[01:01:39] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

[01:01:40] Mike: That's the smoke. That's the 

[01:01:42] Katherine: smoke. That's the smoke that I'm eating as a backman, you know? Yeah. 

[01:01:45] Eldar: You have, and you're not happy with it. You have the horse in the race. No.

[01:01:48] Right. So then when I, for example, when I witnessed that, and I see that right? When we discuss this, like, oh, my dad's not doing this, or 

[01:01:53] Yeah, 

[01:01:54] I see that. Right. And then we discuss it and you're like, oh yeah, I realize I overextended myself, whatever. No, absolutely. Whatever. 

[01:01:59] Katherine: Like right now where I'm at is a very different place where I was a few weeks ago when he was, you know, bringing me along this journey.

[01:02:06] And I'm like, all right, well the round two of cancer, yeah. We got this. I'm gonna, you know, my dad put on my backpack and help you out. And then I realized really quickly that no, 

[01:02:17] Eldar: my dad was diagnosed with cancer. Mm-hmm. Everybody threw, threw red alarms, my sister, my mom, of course. Stuff like that, you know?

[01:02:24] And I said, yo, let's see what dad wants. How come nobody talk about what dad wants? Said nobody what we want. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Therapy. This, it's selfish. My, my sister fucking selfish. These herbal remedies, this and that. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm like, dad, what do you wanna do? You know what I mean?

[01:02:37] He said, what do you wants to tell? I'm like, dad, you know you still smoke. You know you still drink. Right. He goes, yes. What did the doctor say about that? Is that bad for you or good for you? Goes, it's bad for you. But truth of the matter is he wants to keep smoking and drinking. Mm-hmm. So I'm like, all right, dad, you understand the precautions.

[01:02:51] I do. That's 

[01:02:53] Katherine: it. That's it. That's it. He's an adult. 

[01:02:54] Eldar: He's an adult. That's true. You know what I'm saying? How can we selfishly, right. Exactly. Take that away from him. Right. If he's enjoying himself smoking and drinking Yeah. Then what the fuck is the problem? Mm-hmm. He should, he should be able to choose his own fucking destiny all his life.

[01:03:09] That's, yeah. That's the Right, right. 

[01:03:09] Katherine: I, I realize actually, it might be unfair. It's even to me that's unfair that my dad is asking, like, can't make a decision on which, which treatment to go. And he asked me for my advice. 

[01:03:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:03:20] Katherine: That's too much of my conscience because it's a lots, lot of pressure on you. If you do, if I choose a and you do a and it doesn't work out.

[01:03:28] Correct. Or, or you're not better. 

[01:03:30] Eldar: It's on you. 

[01:03:31] Katherine: That's on me. 

[01:03:31] Eldar: That's right. And I, you know, I never like to hold that responsibility right there. 

[01:03:35] Katherine: No. 

[01:03:35] Eldar: Mike knows this. No, I, a lot of times 

[01:03:37] Katherine: I realize, I realize that now that it's way too much. Yeah. 

[01:03:39] Eldar: I'll, I'll dance around that topic, asking a lot of questions to really see where we can get to, and then we make an educated guess at the end of the day.

[01:03:48] Yeah. To see where we land. But the responsibility should never lie on you. 

[01:03:51] Katherine: Mm-hmm. No, I kid, I, I realize that now that crazy, that burden cannot be on me. That is crazy. I was feeling the weight of that and the stress of it. You see, you see, you know, so I think it works out. It works out for the best. Like now I know.

[01:04:03] Like, I'm, I'm, you know, taking a step back, I'm, I'm not getting, so, yes. What is it, um, riled up like, you know, attached to it. Mostly 

[01:04:12] Mike: invested. Yeah. 

[01:04:13] Katherine: You know, you know, I leave it in God's hands. Whatever my dad decides in his therapy mm-hmm. For his cancer will be what I respect. 

[01:04:20] Eldar: That's it. Yeah. I wouldn't want to tell my dad, advise him on stuff, him going through like chemo and all this shit, losing his hair.

[01:04:26] Yeah. Can you imagine fucking crap. Mm-hmm. Or taking out his prostate is one of the options. Right. Yeah. That's one of the options. 

[01:04:31] Katherine: My dad is considering losing his 

[01:04:32] Eldar: libido and all this other crap, not being a man the same way, like 

[01:04:35] Katherine: mm-hmm. 

[01:04:37] Eldar: What the fuck? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, I cannot give this.

[01:04:39] Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:40] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:04:40] Eldar: He's a human being with feelings in his own life. Likes to smoke, likes to drink. Yeah. What the fuck? Mm-hmm. You know, he lived a life. Yeah. I mean, he's gonna die one day. Mm-hmm. I think he should be able to choose on your own terms, choose on his own terms. I'm like, dad, you understand the precautions?

[01:04:55] That's it. Yeah. Doctor said, no, no. Good for you. Not good for the prostate, and don't do it. You wanna do it. It's on you that mm-hmm. Why ain't gonna judge you. Yeah. I'm not gonna judge you. Yeah. But obviously my sister, my mom Oh yeah. Has a different take on it. 

[01:05:07] Katherine: Attachments, 

[01:05:08] Eldar: and there's, there's battle. Right.

[01:05:12] I mean, that's what it comes down to at the end of the day. Mm-hmm. We don't want to see other people suffer, 

[01:05:18] Mike: but that's, well, yeah, that's, I always thought about it is because we think we know best what's best for that person. Yeah. And 

[01:05:25] Eldar: that's disrespectful. I think that is disrespectful. Yeah. 

[01:05:28] Katherine: Never thought about it that way.

[01:05:29] It's like you in a way, 

[01:05:30] Eldar: like, I guess could, it's 

[01:05:31] Katherine: arrogant. Yeah. It's arrogant. It's very arrogant. It's a way didn't dis you 

[01:05:34] Mike: know, better than like, let's just call it God's plan, whatever. Correct. Or the what the what you have this earned in this life based on your actions. The choice you made. Yeah. You can't, you give the guy a fucking gifty for being a piece of shit as a wife.

[01:05:46] Yeah. But he didn't deserve it. Yeah. He didn't earn it. He earned exactly what they earned in their life, you know, like, correct. 

[01:05:52] Eldar: Hmm. Alright, so now it's, I think it's time to, uh, uh, we have a bone to pick with another individual. Yeah. Another on camp. Like, and we're gonna do that.

[01:06:06] Toliy: Pen is fucking persistent. 

[01:06:08] Eldar: She's a fucking 

[01:06:09] Toliy: monster. She's a persistent bro. 

[01:06:11] Katherine: She has been by far the most annoying yo in this moment. 

[01:06:16] Eldar: Uh, can you hear us? I can. You can. All right guys, can you hear Joe? Yes. Yes. Wow. Hold on. Allergy. Pull the volume up a little bit though. How's that, Joe? Yes. We have a bone to pick.

[01:06:31] Mike: Okay, let's pick it. Hey, Joe. 

[01:06:32] Eldar: Alright. Before we, we do, I, I don't wanna remind everyone, anyone who's sleeping, I wanna remind everyone. Oh wow. We live, we're live. We live. [01:06:40] Joe, did you hear that? That's Warren. Who's that? That was Warren. That's 

[01:06:43] Warren. Oh, 

[01:06:44] Joe: Warren. Sounds like he's from out of space. 

[01:06:46] Eldar: Yeah. That, yeah.

[01:06:48] The topic is, uh, learning, teaching. When not asked, uh, giving unsolicited advice. Um. We, we've accused you of being one of the people that, that gives unsolicited advice, like toley. Okay. All the time. Because you wish the best for people and you want to be a hero. You wanna save people's lives and all this other crap.

[01:07:11] Right? Well, you know, you also, it doesn't help your case that you also were a firefighter. You know what I mean? You want to be that person that saves the person from the fire and then tell 'em like, yo, what the fuck is wrong with you? You know what I mean? Why'd you keep the stove on? You know? 

[01:07:22] Sure, sure.

[01:07:22] Yeah. So we're trying to figure out why would you put yourself through this burden of giving unsolicited advice and then watch the individual not take your advice, still do their own thing, return, and not be able to look you straight in the eyes and tell you, like, Joe, I, I didn't take any of your advice.

[01:07:41] I couldn't do it. I'm sorry. 'cause you never get that, obviously from the people that don't take your advice. Uh, all you see is disappointment. Maybe a little bit of resentment. So why do you keep, do it, keep doing it, Joe. 

[01:07:54] Joe: Well, I would say that 95, 90 to 95% of the people I did throw advice to, you know, I got results from, I get a turnaround.

[01:08:06] What? I get improvement. 

[01:08:07] Eldar: Sick. Wow. Well then we called the right person. 

[01:08:11] Joe: There's only been a handful of people that I basically, you know, got to the point where I was just banging my head against the wall, and then they, then they get cut. And when they get cut, there's no coming back. Yeah. And the reason why I give advice is because, look, either this person's in my life forever or expect it to be, whether it's a family or a friend or a coworker.

[01:08:34] Mm-hmm. And it's within the space of our, you know, our, our, um, our circle. Yeah. And there, you know, there's a culture, there's a certain way things are done. And when someone's not seeing that, you know, it kind of has to be adjusted. You can't kind, it can't be left alone. 'cause then, you know, it's like a cancer.

[01:08:52] It keeps growing. You gotta, you gotta attack it hard, fast, and aggressive in order to, you know, create, maintain peace and order within your environment. 

[01:09:03] Eldar: I love everything that you're saying, Joe, and actually totally is in the same camp. He actually mentioned the fact that like, as soon as you enter this culture, he said this environment, right.

[01:09:12] You expose yourself to this type of a dynamic, whether you like it or not. Right? So you're saying exactly what Toley was saying. 

[01:09:19] Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:20] That's pretty crazy. Joe. Joe gets 95%, uh, return rate. Totally. You have to talk to him. Dude, he's good. I get 

[01:09:27] Toliy: hundred percent. What do you mean? 

[01:09:29] Joe: I got, like I said, just over time, I've only, I've only had to cut out a few people.

[01:09:33] Yeah. But for the most part, the people come back. They, they eventually come back home, you know what I mean? 

[01:09:38] Eldar: They fi all the bees come back to the hive. Right. Joe, 

[01:09:40] Joe: all the, all the bees wind up coming back to the hive. They know where the honey is. You know, they know what, they know what listen, they know where they can put their head to rest, you know?

[01:09:48] But 

[01:09:49] Eldar: can it not be frustrating sometimes though, because sometimes it's very frustrating. It's very frustrating. 

[01:09:53] Joe: Yeah. It's very frustrating because the people like me are totally, that they have this, like, they can't ignore it. Yeah. It's one of those things that's like, it's automatic in those types of people.

[01:10:04] Yeah. And you, you can't like, just, you can't just watch the fire burn. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's hard to, it's, it's, especially if it's in your own, if it's your own house, 

[01:10:13] Eldar: you 

[01:10:13] Joe: know what 

[01:10:13] Eldar: I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[01:10:14] Joe: Or it's something you contributing to and you don't want to see it go to shit.

[01:10:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:20] Joe: So these people with these types of personalities or like behaviors Yeah. That we do this type of stuff. We just have a hard time seeing like, you know, injustice or garbage being done in front of us. Like if it has nothing to do with us Yeah. Whatever. Go do your thing. Like obviously there's tons of people in this world that we're not assisting, you know, 

[01:10:39] Eldar: even if it, even if it requires a fight, right.

[01:10:41] You, like you, you're ready to go into that fire. Right. 

[01:10:44] Joe: I'm always ready for, for, you know, for a confrontation. Always. Yeah. And I think, um. I think it's worth it at the end of the day, you know? And, uh, sometimes, sometimes I learned from, from it too, like, you know. Yeah. Um, but I was having this conversation once with, with a friend of mine at work and, you know, I was pushing the whole, you know, when, when I was fighting against the COVID regime, you know, where they were like trying to, trying to control us.

[01:11:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:12] Joe: I was like, adamant about like, you know, this is not how we're gonna do it. And, um, my friend goes, you know, what's, what's for you being so like, aggressive towards this topic? He goes, there's so many things. He goes, you know, why don't you put your, you know, all that, all that power, all that energy into like, other things, you know, because there's all, there's other problems.

[01:11:35] I go, well, this is the biggest problem that hits home to me and this is the, with the closest within my circle. I'm like, there's tons of, you know, of, of topics to hit and active activism to be, there's like plenty to go around, around this world and there's people for those other things. But like, this is what I'm for and this is what I'm kind of focusing my energy on.

[01:11:57] 'cause I can't fight every fire, but I will fight the fires around me, people that are connected to me and the things that affect me, you know? Um, but there's also people that kind of just sit back and let things happen. They know it's, they know it's going down the wrong path. They lean on people that they say Joy will take care of it, so.

[01:12:17] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:18] Joe: I don't gotta get involved. You know, he's gonna, he's not gonna let that shit slide. I don't have to be that guy, you know? And they kind of fall back because they have someone else to do the job. Yeah. You know? 

[01:12:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:12:29] Joe: But, but that's why there's, there's people in, you know, in certain scenarios like, I don't know, military, military type of scenario where you have your authoritative figures and they have to lay down the law and everyone follows it.

[01:12:41] And if you don't, you pay the consequences. You know? And everyone's in line. That's why that everything runs like a tight, well oiled machine, you know, tight ship. 

[01:12:51] Eldar: But don't you ultimately want to be able to raise or grow individuals and to be able to be autonomous and govern themselves versus like, yeah, you know what, I'm gonna have this law.

[01:13:00] And it's like, this is the punishment that you're gonna have or endure this pain. Mm-hmm. If you don't do the right thing. You know what I mean? It's like, I get it. Like you're trying to get the right thing. I am trying to get the right thing too. And I think Toley is too, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. But ultimate, it's interesting.

[01:13:15] Yeah, 

[01:13:15] Joe: I know what you're saying. 'cause I started to pay attention. The, the fact that your dynamic has you and Toley o other on other ends of the spectrum. And I, I am curious to see. If you're coddling, kind of like approach where you're kind of like, let them blossom, let them learn. Sure. People are very capable of, of learning on their own and coming to their own conclusions or, you know, planting little seeds, but it definitely takes longer.

[01:13:43] But will it happen naturally? Yes. Could it? Yes. You know, but are you looking for, you know, a, a tree that's gonna grow to be a huge tree and you, you don't care how long it takes? Or do you need, you know, do you need progress and, and do you need change? Like, kind of like fast? Yeah, I think 

[01:14:02] Toliy: there, there, there, there is no time limit on a, a time.

[01:14:05] No, I, I don't have that type of time when it 

[01:14:07] Joe: comes to certain things. 

[01:14:10] Mike: We know Joe. That's why we call the military guy. 

[01:14:12] Joe: Yeah. Which is fine. You know, because I do, I do like to see other, the way other people do it and I'm obviously, I, I'll always allow room for, you know, especially, you know, your approach because you've changed my mind on a lot of things too.

[01:14:26] That's why I'm, I'm forever open to like, change my mind if, if, if I'm doing something wrong. 

[01:14:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:31] Joe: Or if you think there's a better way, like let me know, you know, I'm not stuck in my ways, but 

[01:14:36] Eldar: No, for sure. And I think, I think that we're going towards the same thing. Yeah. Somewhat. Like I said, you know what I mean?

[01:14:42] As long as you, like I said, your approach gets to the point where the individual Right. Shapes up. Right. Finally. Right. And is able to govern themselves and do the right thing when you're not looking right. Ultimately. Yes, I think Sure. 

[01:14:52] Toliy: Like, like integrity. 

[01:14:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:53] Toliy: Like I, like, I think for like the difference I see in at least like you, you and Joe, for example, ba, ba based on my observation, me or you 

[01:15:00] Eldar: and 

[01:15:00] Toliy: Jo, you and Joe.

[01:15:02] I don't know if I fully agree with Joe here, but, you know, but, but what I'm saying is that like, like for, for example, like I think, um, when it comes to the end result of what happens, right? Yeah. You are not okay with the person doing it out of like either like following rules or like, like, like they have to think for themselves to do them versus like, like, like for example, like, um, I guess it's hard to give a concrete example here.

[01:15:32] I want every, I want everyone 

[01:15:33] Eldar: to be here for their own reasons. 

[01:15:34] Toliy: Yeah. For, yeah. For their own re reason. Where I feel like, uh, maybe for, for like, for example for Joe, like for him it's more of a matter of like the end result. Yeah. The hook necessarily how, how it gets done. That's right. As long as it gets done.

[01:15:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:48] Toliy: Right. So it's a matter of like, how can we get this done as fast as possible? Mm-hmm. That's right. Right. And, and if this gets done faster because this person's now following a rule. Versus like 

[01:15:58] Mike: Correct. 

[01:15:58] Toliy: Knowing something for themselves, for example. Yeah. Then, then like he, he's okay with that because the, the end result is still the end result.

[01:16:05] For, for example, it's, I I don't 

[01:16:07] Eldar: want to, I don't want followers, I want leaders. You Yeah. You're not really, I want everybody to be surrounded by leaders. 

[01:16:12] Toliy: Yeah. I think Joe May maybe said, well, well, might, might say like, yo, this person's a retard. 

[01:16:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:17] Toliy: He's not gonna be a leader. Yeah. Let's put him on a nice plan here.

[01:16:20] Yes. And he's gonna follow it. Yeah. That's And that's it. And like, like, like, uh, yeah. Enjoy himself to a certain degree, you know? 

[01:16:27] Joe: Yeah. I mean that society in, in a nutshell, like, look at all these laws and rules and Yeah, we can't go over 25 and this area, you can't, uh, turn right over here. And like, you get like these traffic infra fragments or, or it's, or like jaywalking or drinking in public or pissing in public.

[01:16:43] Like there's reasons why they're in place and not just because they wanna break your balls or make money. Like Yeah. There's reasons for this. And it's like the speed limit thing. Like in the, in the city streets and the community, they, they did science testing behind like how fast you can get hit by a car and at what mileage is it to the point where you are more likely to die rather than survive.

[01:17:06] And for people that drive through an area that don't want to go a certain speed, and they're like, ah, are you fucking pulling me over? I gotta fucking pay this stupid fucking fine. What's the difference? I'm going 35, not 30. It's like. You know, to have that conversation argument with that person, it takes more to develop in their brain.

[01:17:25] Or, or, or maybe you could tell 'em like, listen, after 30 you're gonna kill someone. Do you care about killing someone? Yes or no? Or, if I give you this, fine, you just won't go 35 anymore because you don't wanna pay the fine. You kind of like, you kind of condition people on like the shock collar that you put around their neck.

[01:17:42] They just stopped doing it because they don't want to get shocked anymore. Rather than trying to con make everyone understand why behind the reasons why we people are telling you to do something. 

[01:17:53] Toliy: Yeah. Rules are for non, non, non, like, it, it it's the raising of non thinkers. 

[01:17:59] Mike: Yeah. The, it's like, uh, that's in the prisons.

[01:18:02] How many people of the who are in prison actually get rehabilitated? Joe's like, y'all don't have time for rehabilitation. Just throw them in prison. Yeah. And let them come out and do the crime again. 

[01:18:12] Joe: Let give them their books. No, no. For a majority or, or, or I don't know what the percentage of people that, like they go to school in prison, they get their degree, they like become something.

[01:18:22] 'cause they want to, I don't know either, but I'm 

[01:18:23] Mike: giving it high, high, high number. 

[01:18:26] Joe: But there are the other ones that just are, are destined to be in there because they're fuckheads and they're gonna continue to be these terrible people. Yeah. Like Yeah. You can't make them want better themselves. So when you can't, when you're talking about prisons, you're already at the, like, the bottom of the barrel of people.

[01:18:42] Yeah. You know what I mean? But it, it's not 

[01:18:43] Mike: the prison system itself. It's just the prison approach. Well, I think 

[01:18:47] Eldar: society's approach. Yeah. The approach, right. I think that, I think that we're overwhelmed overall course. We don't have enough fucking philosophy pods, right. Where you can just throw a fucking, a criminal mm-hmm.

[01:18:57] Into and say, you know what? Let's talk about the fuck you just did. You know what I mean? Or like, let's, let's really rehabilitate you by having you come here. Right. Quote unquote for fucking. X amount of time mm-hmm. Unwillingly in order to learn, uh, this unsolicited advice that Joe's about to fucking install to you.

[01:19:13] You know what I 

[01:19:13] Mike: mean? The, the Joe's approach is like, uh, the guy, Joe Joe's the cop, he pulls him more, is like, yo, you doing 35? You understand you killed somebody? He's like, yeah, I get it. And he's not gonna speed when Joe's looking, but when Joe's not looking, he's flying. Yep. Because own Yeah, exactly.

[01:19:25] Because his, his only reason is to please him. He's scared of Joe or he wants to please Joe. Correct. I don't want that. You don't have your own reason and that I don't want that. But the thing is that I don't believe Yeah. Mo higher chances of it not working. Yeah. 'cause people don't have a, people don't do things unless they have a good reason for them.

[01:19:41] Yeah. And they're not gonna keep doing them unless they have a good reason for that. That's right. 

[01:19:44] Eldar: Yeah. I feel like the, the, and I'd like, I'd like, I'd like an environment where we give enough reasons for the person to flourish. You know what I'm saying? Versus own reasons versus rules where the person has to be pigeonholed into quote unquote success.

[01:19:58] Yeah. Yeah. But, but 

[01:19:59] Toliy: in your, in, in, in, in there's world, I think that there's no. Um, there's, there's no such thing as like, this will take too long or like, this takes too long to like, I agree. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I agree. Yeah, we're like, and I think 

[01:20:12] Eldar: I already 

[01:20:12] Toliy: swallowed that. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So like for you it's like, hey, if this is gonna take you 70 years to learn, no problem.

[01:20:18] Yeah. Where Joe? Well, yeah. For example, Joe Joe's like, yo, we're 

[01:20:21] Eldar: trying to go on Bermuda bro, next month. Yeah. It's gotta take, make the money the year max. Right? This takes over a year. Yeah. 

[01:20:27] Toliy: Need some post sanctions on you. Put you 

[01:20:29] Eldar: in the retard camp. And that's a, yeah. And that's it. Gbe, 

[01:20:32] Joe: the, the, the, the, the main question is how do you get someone to give a fuck when they don't?

[01:20:37] And like, that's the, the dance you gotta do with someone. That's the Yeah. But 

[01:20:42] Toliy: should you get someone to give a fuck who doesn't to begin with? Well, 

[01:20:46] Joe: is it your responsibility if they're, if they're directly involved with something that you got going on, like for example, I mean did, let's say, yeah. I mean I don't wanna, I don't wanna call him out, but his name rhymes with Darris, you know what I mean?

[01:20:58] And if he's at this facility where he works, yeah. I, you know, he needs to know that, uh, basically, uh, you have to give a shit, whatever, you know, what's going on. And if you don't like you, you're gone. You know what I mean's? Alright. Let's 

[01:21:12] Eldar: evaluate this here right now. Uh. Mike totally. Myself or Catherine here.

[01:21:17] Right. And Joe hiring Harris. Right. And evaluating based on where he's at, are we, were we under any impression that he was gonna get quote unquote sales quick? No, no, no, 

[01:21:30] Toliy: no, no. And I think that, that, that like the expectations become less and less. Yeah. Anjo, I would say that it's actually financially cheaper for me to figure out how to gap up his margin of what he can do.

[01:21:42] Yeah. Than to teach him to do Yes. That, that, that amount. Damn, 

[01:21:47] Katherine: ouch. No, 

[01:21:48] Toliy: but Right. Financially, yes. Financially. It's actually, it's, it's actually cheaper to go. That, that route. Yeah. So if you're worrying about like a profit building a machine, no. Like scenario. I know. 

[01:22:01] Joe: That's why I told them, start doing the dishes, start cleaning the bathroom, start getting breakfast.

[01:22:08] You gotta, you gotta do something to make yourself worth why they're keeping you there. I was like, you gotta like make the, earn your teeth. Damn, this guy sucks. But at least he, you know, he really fucking puts his effort. And that's why I think 

[01:22:19] Eldar: that Joe's advice or Tony's advice right, is super necessary.

[01:22:22] We talked about things right. Next 

[01:22:23] Katherine: thing you know, Harris is giving up massages.

[01:22:28] Eldar: You see Mike laying down without a shirt, Harris is on top of him sitting, walking on his back. He's sitting on top of him, his back, his back. Yeah. 

[01:22:36] Joe: With his pausing can do something, you know, to keep it to you. Keep it together. 

[01:22:42] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's true. And I think that that's what we're doing, Joe. I think that at the end of the day, I think we're reducing an individual, right?

[01:22:47] We're trying to figure out their purpose, right. And what they're able to do and meet them where they're at, you know? Um, and the expectations obviously become lower and lower up until we find the base and then we can start growing from that. And that can be, we can be then pleasantly surprised when the person does Excel in knows, in knows, yeah.

[01:23:05] Like the, 

[01:23:06] Toliy: like, like lot, lots of time Joe El elders approaches to like, like give, give you the things that other people maybe in the past have not given you from like a, um, like a, like a [01:23:20] monetary or maybe like an item standpoint. So that like you have. No. Like excuses. You have no, like, like you, you can only go back to like yourself, you know?

[01:23:29] Yes. And you actually get way too much like, like, like elder, like, like, like initially that, that room I'm sitting in now, right. That was initially Tommy's office, supposed to be Tommy's office to like do shit. And like Tommy said, he wanted to know a place to like focus and write. And then he, he went, he chose a carpet out like Yeah.

[01:23:50] They, they, they, they, they, they brought a carpet in here, build the lamps. Yeah. Yeah. Other bought these specific like lights and lamps, like set up this whole space for him and like, Tommy's like the least likely guy to come through an end thing, you know? Mm-hmm. And then he ended up like not showing up in the office for the next like, I don't know, like long period of time.

[01:24:08] Like months and months and months. And he took the carpet. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then like yeah. Like it never happened, you know? Yeah. But nonetheless, he chose the carpet. El gave, give him everything, gave him a pc. It was a 

[01:24:19] Eldar: 300, $300 carpet, Joe. Yeah. 

[01:24:21] Toliy: Yeah. Like, he'll give you all these things. Joe's gonna say, wait, what?

[01:24:23] Yeah, he's about to 

[01:24:24] Eldar: cold, cold timing me right now. Yeah. Yeah. Like he'll give you all these, throw 

[01:24:29] Joe: the bathroom 

[01:24:29] Eldar: physically. 

[01:24:30] Joe: He, he took the carpet to his hours. Yeah. Might see him stuff. The carpet in the bathroom. Right. You gonna stuff him in that carpet that happen, blow him up in that shit. Yeah. 

[01:24:40] Toliy: Yeah. So, but if, if you get everything that you supposedly like kept, have, have been asking for and then haven't gotten.

[01:24:47] Well, now what? Right now it's like, what's your argument? Yeah. Now, now I don't wanna, I don't wanna hear 

[01:24:51] Eldar: complaining. 

[01:24:51] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. You can't 

[01:24:53] Joe: make any arguments, you know? But this is the only place which, listen, I'm, I, I love the social experiment, but this is the only place where this actually exists. Exactly.

[01:25:02] Experiment. Yes. You trying to tell me anywhere else that this would actually exist. But you know, the thing with, the thing with Harris is like, people like, kind of like him, even though you know, he is not, he is not your ideal candidate for a worker there. Yeah. You know what I mean? So that's like, there, there is, there is like, you are getting something out of it and you are trying this little thing out, but like at the end of the day, it's like, yeah, we know.

[01:25:26] How long do you, do you, do you, do you, how long, what's that magic number for you? Oh, I 

[01:25:31] Eldar: think that you underestimate Joe, that uh, it is not Harris. It is our ability to turn that into something positive or into something that's more enjoyable. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And I think that it's not on Harris, it's on us.

[01:25:44] It's gonna be that answer is how long we're gonna be able to quote unquote, put up with this. Right. If we have the ability to continue to enjoy his presence and enjoy that, what's going on, and he's hanging in there, I think hopefully one day it'll start rubbing off and we'll start seeing some fruits from our labor.

[01:26:00] Joe: Yeah. Well this kind of sounds like, you know, parenting with, when you have a kid a 

[01:26:04] Eldar: hundred percent, 

[01:26:05] Joe: you know, and you're working them, working them up, and your expectations are here, but you're not getting it. Yeah. So eventually, you know, you kind of just like hope for the best and you give them everything you could do to set 'em up to succeed.

[01:26:16] And, uh, then they take your car and they drive it down the highway and crash again. 

[01:26:21] Mike: Joe got a pessimistic outlook. 

[01:26:23] Joe: It's just that, it's just that Yeah, you are, you are, you know, you are bringing him through the ropes. The, the kid obviously, you know, is, wasn't, wasn't born with, you know, a left and a right foot, you two left.

[01:26:35] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:26:36] Joe: So we're trying to 

[01:26:37] Eldar: have him succeed. Right. We're trying to, uh, yeah. Set up the environment in such a way where he can actually thrive and succeed. Obviously we're working up, we, I mean, we swimming upstream here, you know what I but against the fucking current. When you guys, when, when you, 

[01:26:51] Mike: when you guys say longer, right?

[01:26:53] If we are say like, Hey, Joe's goal is, let's say the success. Yeah. And you say your goal is success. Yeah. And those two things are identical. Yeah. How do we, how can Joe confirm, or how can anybody confirm? Or you even you confirmed that, yeah. One way shorter or faster? 

[01:27:09] Eldar: Well, no, I think that if me and Joe actually took, took.

[01:27:12] Took the time and actually paid attention or sit down and define the word success of how we met, we will come to an agreement that this will take X amount of time. Yeah. And we can't say anything anymore. 

[01:27:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:27:23] Eldar: We have to come to that because if the measuring stick is success and success is five or 10 years, that's what it is.

[01:27:29] Yeah. But I think that 

[01:27:30] Toliy: you guys would define success differently. Mm-hmm. 

[01:27:32] Eldar: No, I, I'm saying that like, if we actually took the time, I think we can come to a consensus. No, but I 

[01:27:36] Mike: think 

[01:27:36] Eldar: you 

[01:27:36] Mike: would come to, and I think Joe's on the success. Yeah. But I think Joe would actually probably realize that what kind of amount of work it actually takes and for that person to then I, I think Joe is gonna have increase his timeline.

[01:27:50] Yes. Hundred percent. I'm okay with, because he's on the fast camp. I'm with the work, but he's 

[01:27:53] Joe: not. No. Yeah. No, no. But I'm okay with the work. Yeah. I'm on the fast camp, but I'm okay with like the long term, uh, you know, investment. But the thing is, what I told him was, who do you know? Who do you think you are?

[01:28:05] You, you, you are luckier there. You know what I mean? Like, you gotta, you can't go over there with a bad attitude. No Joe's right about this. You can't give an attitude. You can't. Mm-hmm. You can't go in there and throw shit around. I said, you gotta, you gotta, that's right. Agree. So no, Joe's a hundred 

[01:28:20] Eldar: percent right about this.

[01:28:21] Yeah. Mm-hmm. With the, with the attitude wise Yes. With the attitude. Yes. A hundred percent. Right. Because you're, you are given this privilege and this opportunity to be able to succeed. So yo, yo, what are you talking about over here, given the attitude, you should be an s Yeah. Who do 

[01:28:33] Joe: you, who do you think you are?

[01:28:34] You're so lucky to be in that environment and getting paid, and they're taking their time with you. 

[01:28:39] Mike: But I, but I, I agree, but I also think it is good that he's showing his attitude Correct. Because it's also important to, so every, everybody sees where, like, who are we working with and what we're working with, but also he's gonna see when it comes full circle, when he realizes it's also gonna show him how bad of a person he was.

[01:28:57] And that's gonna be a memorable thing. Yeah. 

[01:28:58] Eldar: And I think that, I think that's, this environment actually is conducive for that. Yeah. You know what I mean? We actually allow the individual toll's approach. Right. Or Joe's approach actually can bring out some of these faces mm-hmm. A lot faster. Yeah. And expedite the process of like, yo, this is where you're at.

[01:29:13] And that's why I think that he has the hard time maybe sleeping right now because of the fact that some of these things came out the way he did. Right. And he's reflecting on them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially Joe's giving him feedback on it. 

[01:29:23] Joe: Yes. Which is good. Exactly. It's a hundred percent. I think, I think a balance of the two approaches are, are good.

[01:29:29] You know, and I've taken different types of approaches too. Like, I used to be like, you know, never really showed a soft side, you know, to the people that weren't, weren't like, um, deserving of it, or, or like, it is just, you know, when I felt like it's wasn't ever gonna. Do anything for me. But then I started to realize that some people need it, or, you know, you can't take the same approach with everyone, but you still have to push, you know, but you have, you know, you could be like, more of like a, a tough Yeah, a good, like a loving, uh, discipline.

[01:30:02] And then there's a tough love, you know, there's all like, different types that you can do. And I learned to kind of navigate around it. It, it all depended on the person I was dealing with because not everyone could take the same, you know, regime, you know? Yeah. They can't all you developing a soft side.

[01:30:19] Well, I mean, I, I realized, you know, if you, you still can make it work, you know, it, you, you still can pull something outta someone when, you know, you think, you think you couldn't. Yeah. You just gotta, you know, just taking a little bit of a different approach, but, which, but you know what? I'm, 

[01:30:35] Eldar: I'm, I, I will give you some inside information, Joe, right?

[01:30:38] Mm-hmm. Uh, after we had a little, you know, incident with Harris, um, he blew up a little bit, right? He showed his face a totally right again. Mm-hmm. After giving him, after bringing him down from that. Right. And giving him reflection points and stuff like that to think about. I said, Hey, don't take out word for it.

[01:30:56] Why don't you call Joe? You know what I mean? And you know what he said after we kind of like express everything, he's like, nah, I don't want to call Joe. He is scared of you, Joe. Yeah. Well, he know, 

[01:31:06] Joe: he knows 

[01:31:06] Eldar: he, he, 

[01:31:07] Joe: he knows he is wrong. 

[01:31:08] Eldar: Yeah. But 

[01:31:08] Joe: that, that, 

[01:31:09] Eldar: but, but I'm gonna tell you also, Joe, you did a good job because he was pleasantly surprised that you didn't lecture him right the way he thought you would, because we said that Joe Joe's more of the army camp, he's gonna hit you over the head.

[01:31:19] Mm-hmm. But you did, uh, practice your soft side, your newly found soft side, and you were more compassionate towards him, and he appreciated that. And he was a little more receptive. Yeah. 

[01:31:28] Toliy: That, that, that Joe's gonna tell you to sack up and stop being a little bitch. 

[01:31:32] Joe: Well, you know, it, it gets to a point where like, you kind of lure them and you know, when you're tricking an animal and

[01:31:41] then you grab them and you kill, you grab them and you killed him gonna kill, but you could trap them and like put a leash on him, you know? Yes. And like, now you're, now you're stopped. You know? So, so, you know, like I, that's why I said, I said to Harris, I said, yo, when I was making fun of you in on the, on the group chat and you were in Bermuda, I said, I realized that you couldn't hang.

[01:32:04] And I, I was like, that's why I'm calling you. I.

[01:32:13] That's fine. Fine. I'm just, I just hope that you understand you can't handle it. He's like, yeah, I started taking it wrong. He's like, and then I was like, well, I tried to get down to the bottom of it. I said, why? What was the problem that I was making fun of you? What? What was the actual issue? He's like, my issue was crusty, you know, crusty whatever, 

[01:32:33] Eldar: Cru.

[01:32:35] Joe: And he goes, I didn't, I didn't appreciate him taking my phone. He, he, he crossed, he crossed the line and go, yeah, but he knows you longer than everyone. You know, like, if I did that to one of our, our phones, like one, one of you guys, you know, I could kind of get away with it, but if I took it to someone I didn't know, yeah.

[01:32:51] Maybe it's crossing the line. I'm like, has he ever done that to you in the past? At the, at the end of it, basically he was dancing around, pointing the finger at all these other things, and I, I had him admit it. He's like, yeah, no, I, I think I just took it personal because I felt like I shouldn't have been being made fun of.

[01:33:09] I had more time that he was a new guy. He should be getting it. Like I kind of, yeah. See, that's a good thing. I 

[01:33:14] Katherine: wanted him to be hazed. Yes. 

[01:33:16] Mike: He came in there with a certain expectation and mm-hmm. Intention of what should have been happening. Yes. Because he, he got bullied. 

[01:33:22] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:33:23] Mike: And I think because he set that up for himself, he actually mushed himself and he's the one he got picked on the whole trip.

[01:33:28] Yeah. Every single day he was getting heat and Crispy was doing really well. Yeah. And Crispy was doing really well. Yeah. 

[01:33:33] Eldar: Wow. 

[01:33:35] Mike: I 

[01:33:35] Joe: think it was very funny. But, but at least he, I got him to admit it that he knew. He knew that like, yeah, he wasn't ready for like the kitchen, you know what I mean? Yes. So I said, that's the difference.

[01:33:45] Like, you know, if you were to like, fuck off, get mad and be like, fuck him, fuck everyone, and then go silent and disappear. I'm like, you're gonna just take your issues somewhere else. You know what I mean? Yeah. But, but being that like, here I'm calling to not apologize to you about making fun of you, but to say, Hey, you know, if you can't hang, then that's one thing.

[01:34:07] And just like, you know, say it and then, you know, maybe guys could adjust the way they, they mess with you or until you realize we're all in it together and we're all gonna have fun with one another. 

[01:34:18] Eldar: Yeah. And I 

[01:34:18] Joe: said, if you don't do that, I said, eventually people are kind of just gonna back away and, you know, you're not gonna be treated like everyone else gets treated.

[01:34:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:34:29] Joe: They're gonna be kind of like, you know, I can't guarded, I can't do certain things around him. And then, so then eventually you start to fizz out. You know, you're not really one of the guys, you're not in the circle, you know? Mm-hmm. You know, you can't take things that personal. Yeah. He's like, but my past, my past this.

[01:34:45] I said, we aren't your, those people in your past. We're not people that want you to see you do bad or treat you bad or don't like you. You know, 

[01:34:52] Eldar: I think that this is a very important segment to what we talked about, about learning, right. And about giving advice at certain times and being able to take it and stuff.

[01:34:59] And I think that that moment was hit for him because, uh, the time when totally was. Playful with him, and he perceived it as it was wrong, or he was like, totally was bullying him or whatever. Right? He came out of his face and totally right. His response was like, you know what, going forward then I'm gonna have to pull back, right?

[01:35:17] I'm gonna have to taper it down. And you helped him see certain things about, like, you, you mentioned it. Like, look, the guys are gonna start pulling, pulling away from you, right? You're gonna feel a certain type of way. You're gonna start kind of like just falling, falling behind, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, and he felt that, you know, and he, you know, he's definitely is displaying the quality where it's like, Hey, look, like I, I, I don't wanna miss out on here.

[01:35:40] You know, he's feeling that he doesn't wanna miss out on toll's advice, right? His guidance and stuff like that. And a little bit of a trolling as well, because he knows that this is part of it and that he sometimes take it too, too hard, too hard, and he's still developing his thick skin. So yeah. Again, right?

[01:35:57] Toll's learning here, right? He is like, Hey, if, if Harris is gonna gimme this aggravated response, right, this agro response to the things that I'm doing, then I'm not gonna fucking do it anymore. You know what I mean? But you know what, that also comes with all the other things, right? All the other interactions that totally has to offer, you know, and obviously, yes, for anybody who's, you know, uh, trying to benefit from all this, this dynamic, right?

[01:36:20] If you, if you are losing parts of it, then, then you are gonna miss out. You know? Yeah. He felt that and you helped him solidify that. So that's very good, Joe. Good. So I think that, um, I think that right now, at least right in the moments of, uh, to, uh, I mean tosses in the moments of Harris's crises, the little crises that he does go through, through it with us, you are definitely playing a, a very instrumental role in guiding him through these, because, you know, obviously you know our intention, you know who we are, right?

[01:36:49] Yeah. And you also have the language that he's receptive to. So I think this is very important. So I, I definitely appreciate that and thank you for that. 

[01:36:56] Joe: Of course, you know, anything I could do, you know, uh, I told him, I said, eventually these conversations will stop if nothing changes. You know, because then it's basically, it's up to you all in your court.

[01:37:08] You know, we, we know this shit in and out. Yeah. We see, we see what the issue is, and you can either choose to get there or eventually we're not gonna really have the same conversation over and over, and eventually you might not wanna be around us anymore because if you're not seeing what we're trying to say, or you're not seeing 100% we're 

[01:37:27] Eldar: gonna be looked at as enemies.

[01:37:28] Yeah. Just like, and and that will happen 

[01:37:30] naturally. 

[01:37:30] Yeah. It'll happen naturally. Correct. That's how Nate raised his hand and said, I don't want you to, uh, criticize me when I, you know, act like that or behave like that. And guess what? And guess what? 

[01:37:40] Joe: Gigs up. He's gone. 

[01:37:41] Eldar: Guess what? He's gone. Yeah. 

[01:37:43] Joe: Yeah. You can't, you can't ask, you can't ask for that.

[01:37:46] Yeah. It doesn't, doesn't work that way. Yep. So, and I, yeah, eventually, uh, it's, it's up to him. It's definitely up to him. He is a lucky, I told him, you're very lucky that you're getting this, this type of like, uh, you know, education. You know what I mean? Yeah. 

[01:38:02] Eldar: Alright, Joel, well thank you so much for bringing, uh, giving us your take.

[01:38:06] Um, it sounds like you over there making baby food, so we're gonna let you go. Uh, where's Warren? I thought, I thought I heard Warren on the other line. He is just been listening. Nah, he's just been saying this. Oh wow. We live, we lied. Oh wow. Oh, that's the only thing that Warren can say. 

[01:38:22] Joe: Yes. I'm pretty, I'm pretty impressed.

[01:38:23] Lemme say about how you, you figured out all the connections, how you got everything to like, 

[01:38:28] Eldar: I'm an audio guy learning from an audio guy. You know what I'm saying? Dude, I'm, I'm very impressed. Thank you Joe. Thank you. But thank you again. 

[01:38:35] Joe: Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully Harris, if you tune into this podcast, you better play this two or three times.

[01:38:40] Oh, listen to this shit. 

[01:38:41] Eldar: I like it 

[01:38:42] Joe: because I know it didn't sink in on the first round. So two or three more times. I 

[01:38:46] Eldar: like it in the military style. Thank you, Joe. That's right. Alright. You got it. Have a good later. Good night. Joe, what do you think about that? Take Mike, is Joe onto something? Is he also singing the same tune?

[01:38:58] Totally. Singing. Like, look, you coming into the circle? This is the circle. Fuck off. 

[01:39:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:39:02] Eldar: Fuck off. Uh, adjust or fuck off. 

[01:39:04] Mike: I mean, Joe's saying that he has such a high success rate is pretty crazy. That's crazy. But again, which, 

[01:39:09] Eldar: which I think that he's being a little bit, uh, yeah, 

[01:39:11] Mike: he's bolstering a little bit.

[01:39:12] Bolstering. 

[01:39:13] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, if he, if he analyzed, I think that he's, you know, either cut off or adjusted his approach a little again, a little bit more. We, 

[01:39:19] Mike: we discussing success. If Joe's success was to teach the probee how to come in and wash the dishes. Okay. Yeah. He probably accomplished that.

[01:39:26] He definitely accomplished that there. Okay. I'm sure the guy washed dishes, you know? 

[01:39:30] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:39:31] Mike: You know, 

[01:39:31] Eldar: but while sucking his teeth, yes. Every time. Yeah. But I think I still can't get Catherine to, uh, rinse the dishes the right way, man. 

[01:39:39] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:39:39] Eldar: It's been 15 years. 

[01:39:41] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:39:41] Eldar: You've not been training. Well, I've been seeing the soapies all the time.

[01:39:43] She soapies she only, she only rinses the thing one time. You know, I'm like, babe, there's, there's soapies. Perhaps she'd 

[01:39:49] Katherine: like to give it a shot once in a while. I do 

[01:39:52] Eldar: make sure a stomachs don't hurt afterwards. 

[01:39:55] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:55] Eldar: Yeah. I think gets stomach. 

[01:39:57] Katherine: What's the percentage on that? How often do you get stomach [01:40:00] aches?

[01:40:00] Mike: Shots fired? Yeah. I'd like to know in the hot seat. Well, your tummy is always off, so I'm gonna say hi. Well, 

[01:40:05] Katherine: that's different. I was born like that. 

[01:40:08] Eldar: Disagree, but, okay. We'll talk about that later. Mm-hmm. 

[01:40:10] Mike: Go ahead. Yeah. I think, uh, Joe Joe's approach is, um, yeah, again, I think. That the question that I asked him, uh, I was raising is that if you say, if you guys agree on what success looks like.

[01:40:22] Yeah. I don't think Joe's route is faster. Mm-hmm. Or, okay. Any route is faster. Or I don't know if there's like a 

[01:40:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:40:28] Mike: If fast even exists or is important in here. 

[01:40:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:40:31] Mike: Yeah. You're right. Timeline 

[01:40:32] Eldar: might not be important here. 

[01:40:33] Mike: No. Yeah. I'm not sure if it's important, but I think if we can agree that success is to have an autonomous human being 

[01:40:40] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:40:40] Mike: Who can think for himself and act for himself and hold himself, act out of integrity. Yeah. With integrity. Yeah. 'cause that person's speeding. I'm not, I'm not driving speed limit because I fucking 

[01:40:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:40:50] Mike: I'm uh, yeah. Doing it. 'cause I think it's the right thing to do. Yeah. Or the wrong thing to do. I'm doing it 'cause I want to do whatever the fuck I wanna do.

[01:40:57] Drive fast and drive slow. I know the consequences, but at the time I don't care. Yeah. And that's how most people operate. That's right. You know? Now I see, see a cop, everybody driving speed limit. Why did that happen? Yeah. And people don't keep speeding. Yeah. You know, because they're scared. They're scared.

[01:41:10] You know, that's not the right reason to do things. Yeah. Like, you gotta pay to play like you always say. That's right. You know? Yeah. You wanna drive 95, drive 95. Then when you get a ticket, don't suck it. Team six points. Yep. Take it like a man, you know? Yeah. Take it like a man. Don't complain. You know what you're doing.

[01:41:23] Eldar: Don't complain. Yeah. 

[01:41:24] Mike: And I think that's, that's learning. You know, 

[01:41:27] Eldar: I. So I guess the question is, yeah, how do we learn? Why do we learn how, you know, how should we teach if we're trying to have someone to learn? You know, and yeah. Like when is somebody really receptive to be able to take on the knowledge right.

[01:41:41] And transform that knowledge or that that base into reality into something physical or tangible mm-hmm. With actual results. Yeah. Right. And, um, without speaking about, I think that maybe we could talk about attachments next, next, next episode, because I think it's a, a huge one, I think, without addressing attachments, right?

[01:42:01] Mm-hmm. Um, that person's, that student's, yeah. Personal attachments, two things. Yeah. Right. Without addressing those, I don't think we can unlock this, this, this fantasy land of efficient learning. And 

[01:42:13] Mike: Yeah. I, I think, um, one thing that came to my mind, uh, during the podcast, um, is, is, um, it made me think about like all those like great leaders that we had, right?

[01:42:26] Like, let's just use Gandhi for example. Yeah. Yeah. Gandhi didn't say, yo, come follow me. 

[01:42:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:31] Mike: He was who he was. Yeah. And people naturally gravitated towards him. Yes. And he didn't have to teach one night, asked he Yeah. He, he was being himself and people followed him because they knew what he stood for.

[01:42:43] Yeah. He was the 

[01:42:44] Eldar: embodiment of his teachings. 

[01:42:45] Mike: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You love that example. I think. I think that, um, I think that's, that's the best thing you can do. Mm-hmm. You know, and I think there's a reason people come to you for advice because they see the way you carry yourself. 

[01:42:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:59] Mike: Yeah. That, that's, and you give a lot of advice to a lot of people.

[01:43:05] I know that too. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And people don't, you know, they, they come and they ask you for it. Yeah. You're not going there searching for them. Yeah. So I think that's, that's really what it is. You know, if you want to help a lot of people like the, like the Gandhis of the world or whatever, or if you wanna help your people, the best thing you can do is to be the example.

[01:43:24] Well, that's, that's, that's 

[01:43:25] Eldar: profound. Yeah. 

[01:43:26] Mike: And they're gonna actually see it without you even trying. 

[01:43:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:43:30] Mike: And to tie it to, to the whole thing is, there is a, you have to respect, I don't see any other way. You have to respect that the person is in pain, they're suffering, and they can only come to you when they have enough, like filled up tank.

[01:43:43] Mm-hmm. And you can't push 'em. I don't see how, because I mean, everybody's tired, everybody's depleted, everybody's exhausted, you know? Yeah. Everybody's going through something. Yeah. You can take a little bit of truth and then you need to go, you know, fulfill your desires, your attachments, your pleasures.

[01:43:59] Yeah. That's just how we are, um, in different stages of our development, you know? As you develop more like Toi, now he could do level a thousand math, whatever. Yeah. But when he started, he wasn't able to take a level a thousand math. He had to go from the base Yeah. Just like everybody else. Because there's a progression here.

[01:44:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:44:20] Mike: You understand the importance and you learn to you like there's exponential learning. Mm-hmm. You know, as you get more years of practicing something and learning something 

[01:44:30] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:44:31] Mike: The new stuff that you learn, you pick it up faster. 

[01:44:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:44:34] Mike: You know, that's what 

[01:44:34] Eldar: I believe. And the cool thing about the social dynamic about us learning and teaching and stuff like that is the fact that we can actually go through that process many, many times with someone.

[01:44:46] Right. Just because maybe I've learned those things that Harris hasn't learned or totally learned those things, or you learned that Harris hasn't learned yet, right? Mm-hmm. This doesn't mean that we can't go learning, relearning that which needs to be, you know, re understood. Mm-hmm. Again, or freshen up our memory on these things.

[01:45:02] Of course, right. Through the process that he is going through. Mm-hmm. Which I think is a very cool one because it almost res solidifies our own knowledge, our own understanding, our own character, and like you said, maybe also gives us an, uh, an opportunity to show the example. Through example. Yeah. Right.

[01:45:20] In those moments to, to the individual that is looking for that specific advice. I mean, you know, I think it's, it's like, it's a win-win situation mm-hmm. If you're doing it right. 

[01:45:30] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, and I think that like, it's cool, it's very cool. The, the dumber someone is, the more they learn through flawless example.

[01:45:40] Eldar: Okay. Can you expand on that? 

[01:45:41] Toliy: Yeah. Like, like the lowest example? Yeah. Like the person who's struggling the most, like Harris. Yeah. If you're gonna be an example of something, you better not have no holes, you know? Okay. Because he, he's gonna like, if you're 2% off on something, 

[01:45:55] Eldar: but then why, why, why is the dumbest person has the ability to have that type of eye?

[01:46:01] Toliy: Well, because I think the, like the dumbest person is not accepting towards like any kind, like if they're gonna be learning, they have to be learning through, like, 

[01:46:11] Eldar: so is this a paradoxical thing that the dumbest person is actually the smartest person in the world? No, I don't, no. I, I wonder if it's No, no, no, no, no.

[01:46:19] I think that I'm gonna, yeah, I think you should think about, yeah. So totally based on what you're saying is that like, look, the, if I understood you correctly, uh, the, the dumbest person is very keen or very good on. Spotting any imperfections of the person teaching? 

[01:46:44] Toliy: Well, I think because therefore they're, they're like, they have a strong resistance to learn and they'll only learn if they can't.

[01:46:49] Like, 

[01:46:50] Eldar: but is that a sign of fucking intelligence or 

[01:46:54] Toliy: I think where someone is smarter, maybe they'll accept certain, like they'll be able to sift through some of like, like they'll be able to get, um, like still good out of something that's like imp imperfect or be able to like, to understand like the word, the 

[01:47:07] Mike: keyword that I also thought about is imp is perfection.

[01:47:10] Well, he said perfection. Yeah, perfection. Yeah. The thing is a lot of times, and I think it took me some time to understand it. Yeah. You know, and I wonder if other people felt the same way when you're like, uh, I guess just starting out or starting to thinking about this stuff. Uhhuh, you always seek perfection.

[01:47:30] You always like seek it. You always like, not that you seek it from yourself, but, but you, you trick yourself to seek it to be perfectly. Everybody's like, yo, that's it. Going forward and be very strict because I think our own like natural traits or natural inclinations, like to be a little bit like not disciplined, right.

[01:47:48] Yeah. Because a lot of it's discipline stuff. 

[01:47:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:47:50] Mike: We always try to discipline ourselves and like try to, you know, use that as like a thing. Uhhuh, we chase the perfection because it doesn't allow for any of our bad natural habits to come in. Yeah. So I think it's somehow tied into that where. They, they're also looking at in a teacher.

[01:48:05] Yes. 

[01:48:06] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. So is it a sign of some kind of intelligence then that look like it? You know what, it looks like 

[01:48:14] Mike: intelligence. I'm not gonna 

[01:48:15] Eldar: hold myself to this fucking standard, right? Yeah. Because I'm not doing that. I'm not a person of action. Right. Let's just say, right, yeah. This the student, right?

[01:48:22] Mm-hmm. But you best to believe that this fucking teacher better have the fucking black belt and all the accolades. Yeah. What kind of fucking 

[01:48:30] Mike: shit is that? But I guess it's probably like, also like a maybe some kind of skeptical and like developing trust maybe something like that. The thing is, it is maybe very, very smart, but it's also for the dumbest reasons.

[01:48:47] Toliy: Yeah. The, the thing is that like, um, 

[01:48:53] Eldar: that's a paradox, Mike, a paradox, which you I, no, 

[01:48:55] Mike: that's why that's, I, I forgot it. A paradox. Yeah. 

[01:48:57] Eldar: It's a fucking paradox. Yeah. 

[01:48:59] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:49:00] Eldar: Sure. It's the dumbest reasons. Yeah. But nonetheless, like it's a, it's a discriminatory thing that they're doing it. 

[01:49:05] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:49:05] Eldar: To say like, you know what, I, I wanna make sure my, my teacher's the fucking best here.

[01:49:09] Yeah. That's what totally just said, right? Yeah. Well, it's this highest standard of perfection. Yeah. Because they what pay attention so closely, so well. Well, that's 

[01:49:16] Toliy: also why, well, what the fuck? Well, so, so part of it, I think, who the fuck are they? Well, part part of it I think is like an over time, like, building, building of like, um, resentment, you know, of like, like if you're, if you're bad at something or you're like dumb at something and someone's pointing it out.

[01:49:33] Like if they're, if they slip up like a little bit, you're, you, you're right. You're, you're ready to pounce on them. Right. Because like, you want that moment of like saying that like, Hey, like I got you. You've been getting me the last 99 times. I, 

[01:49:47] Eldar: I, and I think that you, you definitely been, uh, I think on the receiving hand with those Yes.

[01:49:52] Yeah. 

[01:49:53] Toliy: Yes, yes, yes. Like Harris, Harris goes, 

[01:49:55] Eldar: Tony's like, Tony's like to Harris. I remove that skin. He goes, you're, you're, uh, a filter to everything. That's good. You know what I mean? Harris goes, what about you, man? You let yourself go, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah. Like, all right away, it's a quick reversal.

[01:50:12] Mm-hmm. What about you? 

[01:50:13] Toliy: Yeah. Yes. Yes. That, that's also why that if you're around people that are like super dumb 

[01:50:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:50:19] Toliy: It elevates you to a higher standard because like, you have to be on like your top, top fucking like piece of Qs. Yeah. Like top, top everything, 

[01:50:27] Mike: right? What if the, what if the student is very dumb, but the soul is so smart that it's looking for the teacher?

[01:50:33] See, that 

[01:50:33] Eldar: is a crazy profound fucking question. That's a crazy profound question. That's a crazy profile question. That's again, like, it's 

[01:50:42] Mike: such a craziest thing. I don't know how, like I thought about it, but that Yeah, just like, yeah. 

[01:50:47] Toliy: Say it, say it again. 

[01:50:50] Mike: I can't even say the same way I said it 'cause it's like, it was like a, thank God it's recorded.

[01:50:53] 'cause you know, Brad gonna up what this up, what student 

[01:50:55] Katherine: is so dumb? But the soul is looking for the teacher. 

[01:50:58] Mike: Yeah. The thing is the human is very dumb. Yeah. The personality, all this fucking crap. Crap. Like everything. But the soul is very smart and is looking for the perfect teacher. Yes. Why does, why does like, yeah, but I don't think that, you said elder has a lot like everything figured out.

[01:51:11] He's at peace. He's this and that, and we all come to him. Why is that? Yeah. But I think that we always used to come to him from the beginning. 

[01:51:17] Toliy: Yeah. But I still like, even if that's true, I still think that like, I don't think the soul can override the dumb human. 

[01:51:23] Eldar: I think it does. I think it does. Ultimately it does.

[01:51:25] No, but 

[01:51:26] Toliy: ultimately, like you say, like everyone gets exactly what they like deserve and what they're supposed to. Yeah. But the thing is, so that's 

[01:51:32] Mike: the cleansing, the buy-in of to the soul for sure. 

[01:51:34] Toliy: But that, but that's the human part of it, that, that's actually dumb. That doesn't let the soul from a 

[01:51:40] Mike: Yeah. To thrive.

[01:51:41] Yeah. No, but the buy-in of the human and the soul versus the human to human. 

[01:51:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:51:46] Mike: It happens over time because of that thing. We always, we all live with this two people. Well, yeah. And people who live from the soul. Same then. And people who live from the human, right? Yeah. When the person is using logic, they're tapping into the soul and they, they're not looking for perfection, but the human, there's like that spillover, I guess they spill to each other because we are living dual lives.

[01:52:09] Yes. All of us, right? Yes. Yeah. And I think that's 

[01:52:12] Eldar: what 

[01:52:12] Mike: happens. 

[01:52:13] Eldar: Yeah. But I still think that like his, like his personality, his trauma Right. The family shit. Mm-hmm. And all this other past bullshit. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Tries to hold him away, right? Mm-hmm. Tries to give him that lens that he's looking through us.

[01:52:24] Yeah. Right. Even Joe had to remind him like, yo, like the past shit that you're talking about, these, these guys don't operate out of this. Yeah. They're completely different. Yeah. He's trying to talk to the soul and he is like, oh, shit. 

[01:52:36] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:52:37] Eldar: Right. And for that moment split second, he's able to let go and tap it into the soul.

[01:52:42] Mm-hmm. Right. For the moment. Yeah. But that, but that's but short lived. Yeah. But that's, I'm tie into what you, you said how it is, 

[01:52:47] Toliy: like the, the, the dumber you are the more short-lived, you're tappings in your, your ability to tap into the solar are 

[01:52:55] Eldar: Yeah. But nonetheless, like Mike said, it's, it's still a gravitational pull.

[01:52:59] Right. And somehow this gravitational pull also requires, right. For whatever reason it requires, but it's looking for perfection. 

[01:53:06] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Sure. But you can't use like a, like a potato as your magnet, you know? No, but it shows how, how, 

[01:53:13] Mike: how intellectual the people actually are. Yeah. Well, it shows how sick the fucking Yeah.

[01:53:18] The program is now, now 

[01:53:19] Toliy: pe people. The soul. The, 

[01:53:21] Mike: the soul. Yeah. The guts God is, yeah. 

[01:53:23] Toliy: I think people show dumb. They they are by not Yes. Utilizing and not tapping into Yes. Like all the answers that, that they have at their disposal. Disposal. Correct. You know? Correct. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

[01:53:36] Mike: That's the next topic. The desires and attachments.

[01:53:38] Yeah. That's the things that stop us from tapping into the soul. 

[01:53:42] Toliy: Yeah. I, I, I, I wanted us to go back on like the, uh, like the thing about discussing, um, like when people ask to be taught or not, like, um, like, like, um, like that whole concept to me is a very strange one because like, no, but we were 

[01:54:01] Eldar: agree with you.

[01:54:02] We agreed with you. The fact that, uh, one day you feel like you want to ask and one day you don't, and it just keeps going from moment to moment. No, but 

[01:54:09] Toliy: my thing is that like, if you're here, like you, like you have a commitment. 

[01:54:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:54:14] Toliy: Like, you, you, you make a commitment. I feel like, you know? I 

[01:54:17] Eldar: agree. But the problem is that, uh, you didn't read the agreement.

[01:54:21] It's 

[01:54:21] Toliy: your 

[01:54:21] Eldar: problem. 

[01:54:22] Mike: No, it's not. Agreed. It's, the thing is, it's the same as what we was talking about earlier. Yeah. You are the teacher. Yeah. You know the terms and conditions of the fucking thing. Yes. The student, he doesn't even know the questions. He can't even fathom the questions I asked. Yeah. He's agreed.

[01:54:34] There's an agreement to make sure what the fuck is about to happen. Yeah. You teacher, you, you are setting the expectation is unrealistic. 

[01:54:41] Eldar: I think that, look, this is a good example between me and Katherine, we having a relationship. I think that Katherine is only now getting an idea of what she signed up for because at 23, or when I, when she was 20, when I said what I was gonna do and how I was gonna happen, I think she had no idea, but her soul to some degree did.

[01:55:00] Mm-hmm. And they attached itself like, yo, this is the guy I wanna follow. Mm-hmm. Now Catherine as the personality, right? 

[01:55:07] Mm-hmm. 

[01:55:07] Who's for a long time lived with certain particular lifestyle anxiety and all this other stuff, is trying to like finally tap in and tune in into like, what the fuck is actually going on, what the program is.

[01:55:17] Mm-hmm. 

[01:55:18] Right. Getting a little bit of an idea, like, oh, this is what you guys are up to. 

[01:55:25] Mm-hmm. 

[01:55:25] This is what you're trying to do. Yeah. You know, break all the anxiety, the fears, the nonsense. See things for what they are trying to figure out what this reality thing is, what's our purpose, and stuff like that, you know?

[01:55:35] Mm-hmm. But before she didn't know what the fuck I was saying. I said, yo, watch, this is what's gonna happen. This is what we're doing, and that's it. Right. I said it with umph, I said it with confidence and all this other stuff, but the agreement wasn't like thorough. It was pretty like, you know, we had a good conversations.

[01:55:49] Katherine: Yeah. But she, and, and, and when, when, when that was happening, like. I can't foresee the future. I don't know. Yeah. What really comes with marriage and all this, all, all I knew is that there was like a chemical reaction Boom. 

[01:56:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:56:01] Katherine: That like, there's no way It was like a magnet. Yes. Uh, there was no way undeniable.

[01:56:05] It was, it was, yeah. Stronger than anything than my brain, than my thoughts. Yeah. Than anything. Yeah. My brainwashed 

[01:56:10] Eldar: it completely, it 

[01:56:11] Katherine: was, it was a complete like takeover, so Yes. I, that was the strongest and everything else kind of just followed with it. Yeah. 

[01:56:18] Eldar: Well, what I'm saying is that you're finally waking up.

[01:56:20] Right. The soul part is waking up, right? Yeah, exactly. And now trying to override your personality and all the other things that, well, I'm trying to 

[01:56:26] Katherine: undo all this bullshit. That's right. That I, you know, created for myself. These, you know, asked, 

[01:56:33] Eldar: did I not tell her about this stuff when we first met? I did.

[01:56:35] The first, first, the 

[01:56:36] Katherine: first day 

[01:56:37] Eldar: I told her everything, you know, I'm gonna break all your walls. [01:56:40] He 

[01:56:40] Katherine: saw how guarded I was. Yeah. The first thing he told me is like, I'm gonna break down all your walls. And I was like, what? You see who talks like that? Who is this person? This is the first thing I like. I thought, yeah.

[01:56:51] You see, but, but she was, know what the agreement entailed. I'm a very guarded person, especially like in, in terms of that stuff, like, yeah. I'm very guarded. 

[01:56:59] Mike: Sick tea. You called it. First day you met me. Yeah. This is the, this is again, this whole thing is a sick, it's like, 

[01:57:04] Katherine: yeah. 

[01:57:04] Mike: There's like, there's different languages.

[01:57:07] Eldar: Yes. It's something 

[01:57:07] Katherine: you can explain. She couldn't 

[01:57:08] Eldar: understand it. She was trying to explain it into words and all, so. Mm-hmm. It's hard to Yeah. It was unreal. 

[01:57:13] Katherine: I never felt anything like that. Yeah. You know, when 

[01:57:14] Eldar: we synchronized and we were laying next to each other, it was so intense. We weren't doing anything.

[01:57:19] We weren't naked. If Harris is listening, 

[01:57:22] Katherine: that's what you thinking, 

[01:57:22] Eldar: you know what I'm saying? Yeah. It was so intense that we, I said, yo, I can't even take this right now. Let's put on some music. Yeah. I remember that. I never, I wanted, I'll never forget myself because that magnet thing was completely like, embodying 

[01:57:34] Katherine: this.

[01:57:34] You know what's cool about that moment? I don't, I think you always forget this part, but we were laying my heart like next to my hand. We were laying next to each other. Yeah. We were laying down and my hand was not touching your chest. Yeah. But I was, I was close enough. So let's say this is your chest, and like my hand is like, just like relaxing here.

[01:57:53] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:57:54] Katherine: I felt your heart beating from your chest without touching your chest. See? Yeah. I felt that before you made that comment. 

[01:58:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:58:01] Katherine: And I was calm. 

[01:58:03] Eldar: Yeah. I was blogging and there was nothing 

[01:58:04] Katherine: to be like crazy about. So I, I, I fought your chest. Hey. 

[01:58:07] Eldar: Hey. 

[01:58:07] Katherine: And then you made that comment and I thought like, oh, shoot.

[01:58:10] Like he's, something's going on with him. Yes. And I don't remember what my response was to you, but I acknowledge, like I, I, I realize you were 

[01:58:17] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:58:17] Katherine: Feeling a certain type of way. 

[01:58:18] Eldar: Yes. You signed up. 

[01:58:20] Katherine: I did. 

[01:58:21] Eldar: And you didn't know what you were signing up for. 

[01:58:23] Katherine: Absolutely. 

[01:58:24] Eldar: Are you still in a good place? 

[01:58:25] Katherine: Yeah, I would sign up, up again a million times.

[01:58:29] Yeah. I just, you know, hopefully, or was I not nice? Maybe next life was I, I not nice. I I can, my growth can start happen a lot younger. I think 

[01:58:37] Eldar: it will. Yeah. Uh, I was nice. Right. I became meaner later. Correct. 

[01:58:42] Katherine: Yes. 

[01:58:43] Eldar: There you go. Oh 

[01:58:43] Katherine: god. Yeah. You see 

[01:58:44] Eldar: that? Yeah. 

[01:58:45] Katherine: Big difference. 

[01:58:46] Eldar: You see that I'm much more mean now to James, quote unquote.

[01:58:49] But you also, I think you also became 

[01:58:51] Mike: meaner. He's not meaner, but like, you also, like, uh, you developed your, what your knowledge and your understanding you became better at what you or you where you were. But 

[01:59:00] Eldar: I think that the language I'm able to, the boundaries become stronger as we grow, think what to ISS looking for, right?

[01:59:05] Mm-hmm. It's what toll's looking for to be able to speak to the quote unquote newbies. Yeah. In the beginning. Straightforward right away. Yeah. I have that now with Catherine A. Little bit more, where she's able to take in those things straight away without needing to sugarcoat this bitch. 

[01:59:18] Katherine: Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

[01:59:18] Well, I just have a better understanding in general of what's going on. Yes. I didn't before at all. Correct. And, but you 

[01:59:25] Eldar: have now 17 years under the belt, so 

[01:59:28] Katherine: Yeah. I'm still sensitive. I mean, yes. I, I still am. Mm-hmm. 

[01:59:31] Eldar: Yeah. But it's a lot better. Like, I 

[01:59:32] Katherine: happen to be very sensitive and he happens to be very just direct.

[01:59:37] Mm-hmm. So, yeah, it's interesting. 

[01:59:42] Toliy: Yeah. So, so, so I mean, like Harris is definitely blindly signing the contract, but Yes. Like without reading it. Yeah. I think Al also oftentimes, like, just the same way that people like complain about stuff and they like, like when, like we, we, we talked about this before, like oftentimes when I heard like suffering mm-hmm.

[02:00:03] I would take on that suffering and I would feel it, and I would be like, Ooh, this is really bad. We gotta, like, that happens. Like, you gotta do something about it. 

[02:00:10] Katherine: I, I deal with that too. Yeah. 

[02:00:11] Toliy: But then you realize that like, you take it on, hey, for that person, that suffering's not that bad. Mm-hmm. Right?

[02:00:16] Because they take on suffering in this thing different where like for you this is like, oh no, this is like red alarms for you. Mm-hmm. But for them, they're kind of saying it, but they're like nonchalant to, it's a big deal. This is just a regular Friday for them. Like I, 

[02:00:28] Mike: yeah, I feel like you like, um, I feel like it's definitely important to be able to see that in other people and relate it to yourself.

[02:00:35] I think it's super important. I think sometimes I feel like you have a hard time, like, uh, maybe understanding of the person's perspective and also like relating it back to yourself that you also went through this experience. You also, even on certain things, may have certain things that you're still working on.

[02:00:51] You're taking this quote unquote, you know, stance. You know that you haven't or resolved that you still have a problem with this or that you're still working through stuff. And I think like, uh, that's important too. And I think that'll help to like, it's to see the person where they're at. And understand it and respect it and like, um, I think he's looking for that.

[02:01:15] Yeah. I think he's 

[02:01:15] Eldar: looking to, yeah, he's fine. Tweaking his approach's what I'm saying, the 

[02:01:18] Mike: relatability to say like, Hey, I also went through this. Like, hey, this is familiar. And I think that makes the, makes it probably easier to process it. I'm not sure if it's enough. 

[02:01:28] Eldar: Yeah. Oh, you don't think it's enough? I don't think.

[02:01:29] Not not for to, it's not, no. Okay. No, I don't. Maybe it's for you. Yeah. But I think for, totally looking for something else. Yeah. For me, I feel like, I think for example for Toi, he's probably more on a what's more efficient? Yeah. Like, that's a question, you know what I mean? What's like I. Easier path to victory.

[02:01:45] But the 

[02:01:45] Mike: thing is, any question that you ask, you have to, like, I think you have to measure it up against the truth. What's more efficient? Sure. Is it more efficient to do this going a straight line? Sure. I agree. That is why 

[02:01:54] Eldar: you have to use that word in that sentence in order for him to p its interest.

[02:01:58] Yeah. His interest, you know, for example. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Uh, the re relatability aspect I think is necessary and important, but I'm not sure how far removed he is from that. You know what I mean? Where like, sure, you've been through it, but it's not like he wakes up every single day like, yeah, I've been there.

[02:02:15] Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, oh, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think he's stuck on that, you know? And I don't think he should. No, I don't think he should either. I think it should be a glimpse of like, no, we should definitely extend compassion and understanding and acceptance and stuff. Yeah. Okay.

[02:02:26] But nonetheless, like we have a goal, we have a goal in mind, right? Mm-hmm. We, our goal is to be able to raise awareness, 

[02:02:31] right? 

[02:02:32] Hopefully as fast as possible, right? Mm-hmm. Or whatever time it takes. Mm-hmm. Uh, and for the individual to level up. Yeah. You know, and I think that's what the questions are around, like, just Joe's advice, right?

[02:02:43] Mm-hmm. Or Joe's take, Tony's take, there's elder's take Mike's, take Catherine's take. Yeah. Everyone, I think every single person in this room and out there is looking for a way to be heard and a way to brainwash the other individual into a quote unquote good perspective. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I feel 

[02:02:59] Toliy: almost like if you choose development, right?

[02:03:02] Like, like if this is the path that you choose, like, like choose, like, if you're in this circle to, to, to me, you're signing up for like, I. Um, figuring out ways to get more conscious about things, uh, reprogramming, like your subconscious, uh, like trying to figure out like what, what are the things that like you've, um, agreed upon or dis disagreed on?

[02:03:29] And like, bring all those things out. Right. Um, and then like, um, a bunch of development obviously, and like there there's more things I'm missing, right. But Yeah. Yeah. Like be, be like a, like a self-governing person, like a, um, in that way, be like a thinker, like you sign up to, to, to me, to like do all of those things, you know?

[02:03:54] So that, 

[02:03:55] Eldar: that's crazy, right? Mike? 

[02:03:57] Toliy: Is that crazy 

[02:03:58] Katherine: to hear, to listen? Can you briefly, can you elaborate more on, on self-governing person? What does that mean? 

[02:04:04] Toliy: Yeah. Like a, a self-governing person, like they're, they're able to like to, to like basically like manage themselves and not need to be managed in like, all things of life.

[02:04:14] They act out of integrity. Yeah. They do 

[02:04:16] Eldar: the right thing when nobody's looking. 

[02:04:17] Katherine: So, and like an independent, no, not being independent, but 

[02:04:21] Toliy: be in Yeah. Like, they don't need to like, like what Joe's saying that like, oh, like you need, like they have. A rule to not like go over a certain speed on the highway, right?

[02:04:29] Mm-hmm. Like a self-governing person would know like the right, that the right thing to, and they like, they don't without the cop needing to be there. Yeah. So they know to fall down. Yeah. It's the opposite of discipline. They, they don't need, like disciplinary actions or conseque, like they, they don't need consequences.

[02:04:46] Mm-hmm. For a reason to do things, do the right thing. Mm-hmm. Right. Okay. The, the discipline people, they need consequences. If I don't wake up at 5:00 AM this will happen. Mm-hmm. If I don't eat this, this will happen. If I eat that, that like this, this is how they operate. And then it's like black and white, like.

[02:05:02] Consequential like a, like a way of life. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know? Okay. So like, yeah, like, and, and, and there's plenty of more things about like, like, uh, like, um, um, like figuring out all these like, existential things that we think about. So when you, when you 

[02:05:16] Mike: say these things, like, 

[02:05:16] Eldar: um, no, it's crazy, right? Do you guys realize how crazy this is?

[02:05:20] Sorry, Mike. No. It, it is, but it says like when you in the circle, but it's the truth. Like, no, no, no, no. This is how, this is the truth. This 

[02:05:26] Katherine: circle 

[02:05:27] Eldar: is the word that you use, you sign up for. Yeah. The thing is, it's the truth. But where did you sign this? It's Jesus Christ. Us. Yeah. No. Yeah. But the thing is, it's more like, like you 

[02:05:36] Katherine: don't really give the p the, like you either, you, you're either resonate with it and you stick around or you don't and you leave.

[02:05:42] Mike: It's a crazy thing to sign up for, which it's, we had a, it's, it's, it's a crazy thing for it, uh, to sign up for it. And it's a definitely a lot of thing. And I don't think anybody has any idea of what they're signing up for. Yeah. But also what's the timelines for the signup process. Yeah. But no, you, 

[02:05:56] Toliy: you only, you only find out as, as you, as you go.

[02:05:59] Right. We need to like read 

[02:06:00] Katherine: the fine print right now because we don't have a fine print. Yeah, we don't. Uh, no. But I think that if you ever 

[02:06:05] Toliy: read the fine print, you wouldn't sign up. Yes, I agree with that too. But 

[02:06:09] Katherine: still, how can someone sign up and really not know what they're signing off for? Well, no, it's better on, like, on day one, 

[02:06:15] Toliy: I'm joining, that's what I was talking about, those rocks is that like we're all placing those rocks into all of our bags, and then when they get too heavy to carry you, you, you start to tackle them and you start to put them down and then, then you can just remove it and then you move on and then you find that next rock.

[02:06:30] That's like, but 

[02:06:30] Mike: do you, do you give yourself the com? Do you extend yourself the compassion for the rocks that you're carrying that you're not ready to unpack at the moment? Again, Mike, you going into the thing again, going the compassion police. 

[02:06:41] Katherine: Yeah, but I, I, I, I, the, I have to back up Mike on this. No, I know.

[02:06:45] I, I, a way I though is crucial the way he's saying it. 

[02:06:48] Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I can't, you can't say like, Hey, this is what's happening in this court. Yeah. But me on certain things, I'm, I wanna pass, man. I know, 

[02:06:56] Eldar: I know. You, 

[02:06:56] Mike: you like, 

[02:06:56] Eldar: uh, yeah, but I also think that totally was fair when he said that. Oh no, you said it right.

[02:07:01] You have to lead by example. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, yeah. That, that is, that is old. 

[02:07:05] Toliy: Yeah. But that, that's the point of it is that like if, if like if I'm not doing something or something like that mm-hmm. Then like you will be called out. Yeah. Then like I'll also be called out like, um, there is a wraparound service, right?

[02:07:16] Oh yeah. 

[02:07:17] Eldar: You hear policing him. Yeah. He's policing Harris Sure's. There's a chain and Harris 

[02:07:21] Toliy: policing 

[02:07:22] Eldar: all of us 

[02:07:22] Toliy: at the same time. Yeah. There, there's a chain of command on all different subjects that we're all good or bad on. Sure. Right there, there's a bunch of things that you're much better than me.

[02:07:30] Mm-hmm. And there's a bunch of things that I'm much better than you at. Sure. And there's a chain of command. On all of those things. Mm-hmm. And that is all fluid at different times. Yeah, absolutely. There's no like titles where like, okay, this person's in charge of this. Yeah. Well, like if you're gonna be a piss pick, then you're no longer in charge of this, you know?

[02:07:44] Mm-hmm. Yeah. And like that, that will always be fluid. Mm-hmm. Based on your unlimited potential to develop yourself a as, as fast or as slow as as you'd like. Yeah. 

[02:07:53] Mike: And I think that's the caveat what you just said. Yeah. The unlimited potential to develop your yourself Yeah. As fast, as slow as possible. 

[02:07:59] Toliy: Yeah.

[02:07:59] That, that's why, and I think 

[02:08:00] Mike: engaging that for individuals who are in this journey like that, then that's, that's an important thing that needs to be applied. Yeah. Uh, but I mean, you can't give, you can give me certain heat that you can't give to Harris on certain subjects because I can take it or I cannot take it depending on what we've done, what we've discussed, what we've Yeah.

[02:08:21] What the history has learned. But I 

[02:08:22] Toliy: think, but, but, but I do think so, so, so I think I know what you're saying, but I, but, but I also think that like, I think there's a value in talking shit and then being challenged on it and then realizing that like, hey, like I'm not, I'm, I'm not about that. I agree. I do think so.

[02:08:38] And that's that. And, and like, that's what happens all the time. Harris will talk shit, talk shit, talk shit. Mm-hmm. Talk shit. Yeah. And then, and then people will start trolling him, or, or, or, or challenging. And then he'll has to back off because for sure his shit level does not match what's now being demanded.

[02:08:51] Mm-hmm. Because you, you are not about that life. Absolutely. Oh, you wanna learn sales. Okay. You know, elder outlines a plan, plan for you, or like, before I would outline a plan for you. You don't do those things. Mm-hmm. You don't really wanna learn sales. Mm-hmm. Right. And then you open the door for like, shit criticism, talking and like criticism.

[02:09:08] Eldar: Yeah, 

[02:09:09] Toliy: yeah. Criticism and like challenging up until a point where like the person says, well, no, I don't wanna learn this or this way or this way. And then they have to keep going lower, lower and lower and lower, lower until they actually do something so that they can level up like, like past that. That it's also why I think that like, it's not necessarily that like, like the dose of like what they need, I think is the, it is, is very, um, depending on what actions they're taking at that time, you know?

[02:09:37] Yeah. If they're in shit talking mode, you gotta I agree. For sure. Challenge that. Right. I, I agree. You're right. Right. Yeah. But I don't think ever if like, Harris comes in this like crazy sensitive, like, you know, like moment. Like I'll never act like that to, to my like No, I agree. I don't think I ever do that.

[02:09:53] No, no. You know, if he's real, someone's real, like No, I agree. Real serious about something. Yeah. I'm definitely not gonna like, start trolling and like, challenging and like all, all that. Like, I like, like I can read that. Mm-hmm. But oftentimes the person I'm challenging and trolling mm-hmm. Is a person who's talking the most shit mm-hmm.

[02:10:09] At, at that time. Sure. You know? Sure. So like, they, they get like, like I'm trying to meet them at the energy that they're so-called displaying. Mm-hmm. And then they prove that they're not about that. And then, and, and, and then we, we both have to kind of like back off, you know, but I. Um, like I, I, I know with, with challenging and with like, um, calling out, like there's definitely, um, there's definitely temporary backlash because I think that like when you call someone out, when, when, when we were talking about like, those rocks are getting put in your bag, you don't know that they're, they're there.

[02:10:44] Mm-hmm. So then you're like, yo, bro, like you got a huge, like a red and blue rock in your bag. Like, look at you and they're like, what are you, what are you talking about? Mm-hmm. Like, you're, you're an idiot. Or like this and stuff and, and, and all that. 'cause like what you're calling out. Like they're, they don't, they're not even like, um, aware of it.

[02:11:00] Aware of it. So naturally, like you're being accused of something or you're being called out on something, you're not aware of it. Mm-hmm. I think a very natural reaction is, um, is anger. 

[02:11:10] Eldar: Yeah. I agree with that. Mm-hmm. You know, I agree with for sure. 

[02:11:16] Toliy: Yeah. So like that, that, that, that's my main thing is that like, I feel like if you're here, you're signing up for like challenging trolling.

[02:11:24] That's crazy. Bashing like, help. That's crazy. That's it. Because if you wanna be like, like if you're here, I guess, I guess, yeah. You'll be held at the standard of like, that you wanna pursue to be like a Jesus and Joel. And 

[02:11:34] Eldar: Joel says the same shit figure. Mm-hmm. He said, look, this is our circle, bro. Mm-hmm.

[02:11:39] You the where we at? It's, yeah. It's like protect all fuck off. 

[02:11:43] Toliy: Yeah. It's like protecting the integrity of what's going on. Yeah. The culture. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you, if, if you're I, I, I like, I I 100% like, uh, like actually believe this, like if you're here and you're here for like, the long term and you stay for the long term and you turn it into like a lifelong thing, like you will eventually turn into like, like, uh, like, like what?

[02:12:07] Like what, what these like, famous people like look up to like Dalai Lamas or like Jesus, or, wow, that's a crazy part. You like, that's what, that's that's what you're going towards. Yeah. Right. Like if, if you the standard. Yeah. Like think of it like we've only been doing this for like what, like Dennis Ross 

[02:12:22] Eldar: podcast, the standard is Dalai Lama, let's just say like 15, like holy fuck tweet of shit.

[02:12:26] Say, um, 15, 

[02:12:29] Toliy: 15, 20 years. Imagine like another 30 years more like double and a half of what we've already in like Yeah. Like what, what, like what, what, what would we look like all then, you know, like if you, if, if, if we do that. So I think like, because like that's, that, that's like what, what the aim, aim, aim is like the, like the standard is set, you know?

[02:12:54] Eldar: Yeah. That's very interesting. And uh, well, the good thing is we have soldiers like Joe who's willing to protect the shit who Yeah. And meet the gremlins like Harris, where they're at. Mm-hmm.

[02:13:12] Is it not the truth? Right. If we're more softer in our approach, then we have Joe. Right. It was front lines [02:13:20] on the street. No, no. 

[02:13:20] Mike: I said I, I think like a few podcasts ago I said that Yeah. After Yeah. All the years of kind of going through, having your approach and also having toy's approach. Yeah. Where I finally understood it Yeah.

[02:13:33] And accepted it. And I don't have an anger towards it. Yeah. How I used to. 

[02:13:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:13:37] Mike: I understand the importance of it. Yeah, I understand it. It's very necessary because it brings out your quality, the standing, 

[02:13:43] Eldar: the importance of it. Have you received, have you turned his approach now to be able to receive what needs to be received from his approach?

[02:13:51] Mike: Well, I think just now. We recently started having more conversations, so, so jury's too early to tell, but, all right. You better get 

[02:13:58] Eldar: back to us and let us know. 

[02:13:59] Mike: I'll let you guys know once I have some progress. Yeah, for sure. For sure. But, but I think, um, so is that music to your ears? 

[02:14:07] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:14:07] Mike: Oh, good. 

[02:14:08] Toliy: Yeah. Like we, we have a ping pong, uh, table here.

[02:14:11] Not, not, not ping pong. A ping pinball. Pinball. Yeah. You know, you know, in the pinball when, when, like, you have to hit those two things. Yes. So like, and then, and then it lands into these like, weird bonuses and shit. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, that's what we have and the collection of all of our thoughts and I think approaches and different ways of doing things, like we have an infinite way to keep the pinball from, like, like, it's not gonna go totally 

[02:14:33] Eldar: right now shamelessly promoting the podcast.

[02:14:35] Mm-hmm. 

[02:14:36] Toliy: You know, like, yeah. Like, yeah. I, I don't see, I, like, I don't see somebody failing in the long term of like, um, like, like we, we, I, I. I think we spoke with this, I, I think it was me and you maybe on the last podcast, is that, um, I think it was the last podcast where we, we, uh, uh, we, there there's only one place, like, like the lifelong, um, question between nature and nurture.

[02:15:02] Remember when we were talking about that? Yeah. Like there's always a question between like, nature and nurture, which one has more influence? Yeah. 

[02:15:07] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:15:08] Toliy: Right? And, and, and I said that like, the good thing about being here is that the, the, the, the question doesn't exist because you get the nature and the nurture mm-hmm.

[02:15:17] At the same time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You're in the best environment, getting the best care. Like, but I think in realize 

[02:15:21] Mike: nature always follows, follows through Right At the end. At the end, nature always wins.

[02:15:28] Eldar: I'm not sure, Mike. No. You don't think so? I'm not sure. I think that the debate is still though, the jury's still out on that, you know? Yeah. And I think that we're, we're, we're trying to prove, 

[02:15:39] Mike: no, not in here, but like outside. I mean, I hope not. Nature. 

[02:15:45] Eldar: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I hope not because a lot of times, 

[02:15:47] Mike: I mean, I, I don't know, was thinking about it in a good way.

[02:15:50] Eldar: Oh, in a 

[02:15:50] Mike: good way. Okay. Yeah. 

[02:15:51] Eldar: Okay. You know. 

[02:15:53] Mike: At end the day you wake up and you realize the truth, like nature as I'm saying, like, you know, the logic, the soul. Oh, okay, okay. Nature. Yeah. Like the truth always wins. I think it's more, it it nature like a bad way. The nature, 

[02:16:06] Eldar: yeah. The nature of the definer nature is that gene.

[02:16:08] Right. The genes. Ah, okay, okay. Right. 

[02:16:12] Toliy: Is like, like a soul nature. Like you're born nature Yeah. You're born to be a follower, for example, and that's it. Mm. Okay. Okay. That, that, that that's your nature and you can't do anything about it. Yeah. Yeah. That versus like nurture saying no, like you can, like you can be learn particular things.

[02:16:26] You can, you have, you have the, like the ability of change. The def people, people are 

[02:16:30] Mike: empowered, they can be nurtured with other people who are not. Yeah. They might have to visit nature. Yeah. Yeah. That's also why is that like, 

[02:16:36] Toliy: yes. 

[02:16:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:16:38] Toliy: Yeah. It's like we're, we're, we're together like for like a good amount of time because we, we, we, like, we're, we're both friends and then we also work together.

[02:16:46] Yeah. So the amount of time spent, like, you're not gonna get like any, any kind of environment where you get this type of level. Like, like the only time we're relatively not together is like very few hours in like, sleep, you know? 

[02:17:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:17:01] Toliy: So it's like you, you get like a, like, nurtured and, and, and, and, and, and in good nature, like, uh, like around the clock.

[02:17:11] Mm-hmm. You know, this is true. Like, like this is like a, uh. A nursing home for retards. You know, like, it's like a very, like, are we the patients and the I'll put that in. And the doctors too. Yeah. 

[02:17:24] Katherine: I would, I would say it's more like a bootcamp. 

[02:17:26] Mike: Yeah. Think about it. Yeah. You know, no, it's a mental institution, but we're also at times the patients and the, a mental institution is a good 

[02:17:34] Katherine: way to put it.

[02:17:35] Yeah.

[02:17:39] Eldar: That's sick.

[02:17:45] Toliy: Alright guys. We've said a lot. Let's start. Yeah. 1, 1, 1, 1 thing I wanted to mention. Mm-hmm. And I think we all, um, like the, like, it, it like, not, not necessarily that like it's proof, but it's a very interesting thing. I think we'll all agree that like, like, like, and, and, and like, I, I like, I see it like within our individual fam, families we're love the most by 

[02:18:15] Mike: our families.

[02:18:15] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:18:16] Eldar: We're love the most, 

[02:18:18] Toliy: like, are we all the golden child? Yeah. Like everyone. What, what if you're the only 

[02:18:21] Katherine: child like me though? 

[02:18:22] Toliy: Like, like everyone gravitates towards like, I feel like, um, like in, in our respective family. Why is that a sign? Like, like it's, is that a sign for you that's important? It's, it's a monster.

[02:18:33] No, no. I, I would say 

[02:18:35] Eldar: possibly 

[02:18:36] Toliy: I, I like, I feel it for my myself. And then I also see it that, that like, there's like, um, like. Like, like, uh, like e even if they don't like you at times, like people want to gravitate in your family. Like especially towards you. Yeah. Like in the sense of like, like, um, but that's, I think maybe they, they love you in a different way.

[02:18:57] I could calm you 

[02:18:57] Eldar: down right now real quick with the next statement. Ready? Yeah. You like stating the obvious or no? Well, I mean, you like highlighting the obvious, right? I don't know. Do I I mean that's obvious. Yeah. Right. I think that I, I think, think, but totally wanted to I'm gonna, I'm, 

[02:19:14] Katherine: you wanted it on the record?

[02:19:17] Eldar: Sure. Yes. Good to be noted. Yes. Well, no, I think that, I think that if right, if what everything that you just said, the testimony about Dennis Rock's podcast and our dynamic and everything that we do here is in fact enlightening. And the people here get enlightened for the moment, and those individuals that roam earth are not present in these types of moments as much as we are.

[02:19:45] When they come across it, their souls naturally gravitate towards it. Well obvious. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like it's gonna be that. Yeah. Obviously. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think hence Catherine goes. Why does you, why does my whole family in Columbia love you so much and talk to you? Like, I show up and I, and obviously I don't say anything back, but I do.

[02:20:05] And 

[02:20:05] Katherine: everybody's like, where's El? And I'm like, I'm here. 

[02:20:09] Eldar: Hi. 

[02:20:10] Katherine: I flew where to be here. And they're like, oh, where's, where's El 

[02:20:15] Eldar: Catherine? Everybody's talking about when I do go to Columbia, I actually go home and she just goes to visit. We can't continue today. Oh, God's never said that before you Charlotte.

[02:20:28] Shit. Yeah. Holy shit. Alright guys, do you have any final thoughts on the subject? We'll start with, with 

[02:20:32] Katherine: my home is My home is here. Of course. I, I visit that. I'm 

[02:20:36] Eldar: just joking. I'm just saying that the thing is, is I have the ability to pay attention. Home is here. Yeah. Even if I don't speak, take the language, I give the attention to those individuals.

[02:20:43] Yes. And they see that absolute and they feel that, and therefore they gravitate towards me. Yeah. Aside from all the, the stuff that totally talked about. No. 

[02:20:48] Katherine: And that it makes me happy that they, they can see that. 

[02:20:51] Eldar: Yeah. But don't be surprised please. Because you always acting surprised. 

[02:20:54] Katherine: I'm not surprised.

[02:20:56] I'm just a little salty. Yes. Or crunchy as a Joe would say. 

[02:21:02] Mike: Crunchy. 

[02:21:02] Eldar: Crunchy. I like that. Alright, totally. Let's go with Mike. As for the final thoughts, you come back to me. Alright, fine. Let's go with Kat. Babe. Final thoughts on this learning fucking unsolicited advice. People are not listening to our shit.

[02:21:16] They don't understand it. You know what? In the middle of the podcast when Tony was talking and rambling, I had a fucking quote and I, I, my quote was.

[02:21:25] See, start listening to the podcast now so you don't have to play catch up later. 

[02:21:30] Katherine: No, but you know what, it's you. Hey, can 

[02:21:36] we agree that it's the tone that he says? It's like he changes his look at what a genius I am. Look at the stars. I was trying to remember 

[02:21:46] Mike: it, you know, felt profound, but yes. Delivery.

[02:21:52] Why? It wasn't profound. No, but the delivery is delivery. That was like one I those 

[02:21:57] Toliy: moments where it's like, Hey little Charlie, look at the stars in the, the telescope. Look at Red Dipper. You notice that he does that when of course he likes to give his little quote, this little quote you made up. You use the Harris card.

[02:22:09] Say your tipsy man. Don't forget it. I'm use,

[02:22:16] Mike: are you done motherfucker? 

[02:22:18] Eldar: Alright. Who said something baby, you are gonna say something about, so 

[02:22:23] Katherine: I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be very honest about final words. 

[02:22:25] Eldar: Guilty as charged 

[02:22:26] Katherine: by the time we get to final words. Mm-hmm. My brain is fried or I have nothing else to add. Yeah. So I have nothing else to add. That 

[02:22:35] Toliy: is in indication that, that you need much more podcast time.

[02:22:38] Absolutely correct. Absolutely. Yeah. But 

[02:22:40] Katherine: from the start, by the time we get to final words, like, I'm tired. 

[02:22:44] Eldar: Yeah. Alright. How about this? Just one question. 

[02:22:46] Katherine: Okay. Joe's approach 

[02:22:47] Eldar: or elder approach? 

[02:22:50] Katherine: I mean like. I can slow and steady for you, like I get for you. I can't respect it. I can respect it. Like I've, through course the slow and steady.

[02:22:57] Yes. But I can also respect, I can see the, the, the point of view of like, this is such a unique and like special group, right? Like this, this group here, right? 

[02:23:06] Yeah. 

[02:23:07] Um, that to have those, you know, it's like the bees when the outside's trying to enter the hive. Yeah. There's security guards at the door. Yeah.

[02:23:15] Mm-hmm. Yes. I think it's also important to protect that hive because what you guys have, this is very special, right? Okay. So if you're gonna come in, you gotta come in. Correct. And you gotta come in also humble because you're gonna, you know, hopefully try to better yourself. Right? And if you're not, then this is not your crew.

[02:23:32] This is not your crowd. Okay. So like, that's understood. So I respect, I respect that. Yeah. However, I, it's super necessary. I really also, like, I am also backing Mike on the compassion side. Yeah. Because, uh, just for so many reasons, you know, I don't know. But, but I've also been on that side, been to it. Yeah.

[02:23:50] Yeah. And the reason, like, it's because of your compassion and your patience with me that I'm even here, you know, even though 

[02:23:58] Eldar: your comments towards guys like Nate Dennis, well, of 

[02:24:02] Katherine: course I was in a place of lacking of 

[02:24:04] Eldar: you. I had, I had, 

[02:24:05] Katherine: I had nothing to give. I, I was, I was lacking. I was like negative, you know?

[02:24:10] Um, so. You know? Yeah. That patience and that compassion that you had towards me is something I'll, I'll be forever grateful for because you could've just been like, you know what? I don't have time for this girl. Like, I, I can move on and, and find myself somebody better, somebody that's on my level. Yeah.

[02:24:26] But you didn't do that, you know? So you are 

[02:24:28] Eldar: on my level baby, 

[02:24:28] Katherine: that, that says, 

[02:24:29] Eldar: I love the way you challenged me, 

[02:24:31] Katherine: so I challenge you a lot. 

[02:24:32] Eldar: Oh, you do. You police me a lot and I like that. 

[02:24:35] Katherine: I do police you. Yeah. Mike. 

[02:24:38] Mike: Yeah. Um, about the two different approaches. I, I said, you know, like I said earlier, I think they're both super necessary.

[02:24:46] Yeah. You know, they, I think they're both super necessary. I think they play a role in, in the people's lives because. Some people may be more arrogant than others, like different personalities, you know, like Harris is extremely like 

[02:25:00] Katherine: Yeah, yeah. True. 

[02:25:00] Mike: Disrespectful. He's not nice. Yeah. He's very arrogant. Yes.

[02:25:04] You know, he's pretty dumb. Yeah. Um, some people he needs to get beat with a cucumber saying 

[02:25:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:25:10] Mike: Which sounds kind, 

[02:25:11] Katherine: but that just kind of shows Yeah. Totally. Out of all the things. Yeah. You know, pull bat usually, but that's speaks to like possibly the compassion and the patient that required for him to, to I think, uh, to get here.

[02:25:22] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. He definitely needs compassion too, but also in the times, if he's showing his, his egotistical side, he needs to get hit over the head. 

[02:25:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:25:30] Mike: And it's totally is willing to swing the bat. Yes. He's got it to the consequence for cracking him over the head. 

[02:25:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:25:36] Mike: That's the only thing I wish for to Yeah.

[02:25:38] But perhaps a cucumber is to, to maybe extend, uh, ex, you know, extend it to himself where when you are hitting the person over the head mm-hmm. Don't take it so diff so bad on yourself. Because if you have, if you're doing something and you're doing it for the right reasons, even though it hurts the other person, uh, you don't wish the person bad, you know?

[02:26:00] So maybe don't internal maybe I wish for him not to internalize it so much, you know, because like you said, he does, like even Joe said, he is like, I get frustrated. Yeah. I get like, you know. Yeah, yeah. You know, but I think the internalizing being the bad guy, I guess, quote unquote bad guy, like, you know, for lack of a better, like, uh, wordage.

[02:26:16] Yeah. You gotta take the, you gotta take the heat. You know? Yeah. And if you see it for what it is, you don't take it as bad. I think. So that's, that's kind of what moving on, the, the, 

[02:26:26] Toliy: the, the next maybe, uh, skill, skill here is to be the fake bad guy. 

[02:26:31] Mike: The snake snape. Well, yeah. Guy. No, no. 

[02:26:34] Toliy: To like intentionally summon like that.

[02:26:36] Like, uh, like without actually feeling it, you know? Well, she's totally, 

[02:26:41] Mike: no, no, I think he's right. But that's what I think. That's what I'm asking for. I'm asking for you to be get better at what you actually do. Correct. You are asking for that. Yeah. 

[02:26:48] Eldar: Yes. Yeah. Not for the the kids' sake, but for your own sake.

[02:26:52] Oh, she's try you asking for remove your emotion. Yeah. Right. You, your attachments to it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And provide the pressure. 

[02:26:59] Yeah. 

[02:26:59] Necessary. Yeah. That is necessary, however mm-hmm. Be so calculated in the amount of pressure that you provide that the amount of fallback that you get from it, it's not aggravating you.

[02:27:14] Mm-hmm. 

[02:27:14] Yeah. Right. You able to deal with it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Without needing to shell up and say, I'm not, I'm not, I'm throwing my hands up. I'm not doing something. Yeah. Like to me that fed he threw 

[02:27:24] Mike: is like 

[02:27:25] Eldar: unacceptable. Unacceptable. Which is fine. Which is fine. I think. Totally. ISS learning. I think he's learning.

[02:27:30] Yeah, totally. Just because he said it doesn't mean he wasn't like next day like trauma. Yeah, no, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. He understands it. 

[02:27:36] Mike: Yeah. But yeah, that was good. I think it was just saying if it's shock value also to Harris. No, I think, 

[02:27:41] Eldar: which is very important too. 

[02:27:42] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. 

[02:27:45] Toliy: Um. What for? Final thoughts?

[02:27:49] Yeah. Well, you wanna start a new, new topic? The fuck I wanna play CS clock. Yeah. O'clock, man. Um, final thoughts? Um, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm still like, trying to really, um, like understand the concept of like the, uh, asking for help thing because like, to me, in my world, like it doesn't exist. 

[02:28:13] Eldar: Hmm. 

[02:28:13] Toliy: And, and to, to, to some degree because to me it's like, again, it's like if you enter the carnival, like the, like the rides is already like you Yeah.

[02:28:20] It's already, 

[02:28:20] Eldar: it's shits in play. Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:28:22] Toliy: Like, you don't buy tickets a ride by ride. Like, it's like a free pass. There's a warden in this, the circus, you, you answer, you, you answer. And then like, uh, yeah, do, do, do you know like that they have that in like, um, like, uh, like in, uh, that, that sandwich place in say like a Kas Deli?

[02:28:40] Yeah. Like, and you walk in, they give you a ticket. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then you just bring the ticket. If you lose the ticket, you pay $40 flat. Flat and that's it. It doesn't matter what what you got. Yeah. You just pay $40 flat. That's it. That's interesting. That's their rules. Yeah. That's their rules.

[02:28:51] That's it. Fuck off you, you enter. Yeah. But you can't even answer without ordering anything. Why is your 

[02:28:55] Mike: example of the VF 

[02:28:56] Toliy: food related? Just, I'm, I'm not, why was it a tell? No, but it just reminded me yet. So like that, that, that to me is a thing because it's like, I didn't ask for it, so I'm like, the fuck.

[02:29:06] Do you mean you didn't ask? Like, like, I don't know. Like you're, you're complaining, you're sharing like you're asking Yes. Like. I, I don't know how I to understand that any other way. 

[02:29:18] Eldar: It's an mature approach and I think totally has developed thick skin. Enough thick skin to be able to express the way he is expressing it right now.

[02:29:25] You know? Yeah. There 

[02:29:25] Toliy: is benefit, like, like I, I, I, I, I know it's impossible just, just to like understand that from, from like all levels at a time, but there actually is benefit from every type of interaction no matter how it ends. Mm-hmm. In that mo moment, whether it's anger for sure. I agree 

[02:29:42] Eldar: with him. You can't disagree.

[02:29:44] Toliy: I, I agree with him. It doesn't matter. Like you're gonna benefit. Yeah. I agree with him. Like, like that. That's also why like, the idea of being challenged to me is like, it, it, it resonates so well with me because it's like, like, like what? What's the two scenarios? Like you're either [02:30:00] right about something Yeah.

[02:30:01] And you confirmed that Yeah. Or you're wrong or you're wrong about something and now you can learn something better. 

[02:30:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:30:06] Toliy: Like you win every time. 

[02:30:08] Eldar: Yeah. To the person who has finally realized that his ego and pride is actually not the thing that serves him.

[02:30:19] Yeah. Because that's what's being summoned at the time when you get challenged. Yeah. And, and yeah. But that, and you feel a certain type of way, you gotta defend it. You got emotional. Oh, but my feelings, I have this, I have that. You have to be sensible and sensitive to what I feel. 

[02:30:35] Toliy: That's also why it works.

[02:30:35] And I own these things. Like, who are we raising here? Hey, you saw that? What? 

[02:30:40] Mike: You saw that nothing happened. What? She left you off has nothing, nothing to see here. I was talking to her. She knew it. 

[02:30:45] Toliy: Yeah. But, but what, one thing I notice is what do think I'm sleepy like Harris, when, when he flips off, he does like a, like a long, like a long thing.

[02:30:53] Like ka does like a little, mine is like a secret secret it to me. Most people never 

[02:30:58] Katherine: even see it. Yes. 

[02:31:00] Toliy: Yeah. I 

[02:31:00] Katherine: haven't done it in a long time. Yeah. I didn't even 

[02:31:01] Toliy: realize that you were acting out like a Yeah, no. He's talking, he's talking to me right now. I'm always talking to someone speaking. Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:31:08] Katherine: But I know 

[02:31:08] Toliy: you were pretending to like Yeah.

[02:31:11] Katherine: Oh no. That was calculated. 

[02:31:13] Toliy: I think that like what we're, we're raising and we're trying to create like con like conscious individuals who don't subconsciously like, or like unconsciously Right. Summon their ego and pride. That's 

[02:31:24] Eldar: right. 

[02:31:24] Toliy: Like, that's what we're trying to do. I agree. Right? Yeah. And, and I think that like with challenging and with doing all that, like, like you wake up the fucking person to be like to, to like start to wake up.

[02:31:34] That's right. And start to fucking think That's right. And, and like, uh, like do woke shit and be present. 

[02:31:42] Eldar: You. 

[02:31:44] Toliy: Like, you, you, you like, uh, started doing all that. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I, yeah, I definitely, at times, like at, at, at times, I don't care about like, the backlash and all that, you know? Yeah.

[02:31:56] Sometimes I do. 

[02:31:58] Eldar: Oh, you definitely do. 

[02:31:59] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I do. Okay. That part is sometimes interesting because Yeah, like some, some, sometimes the backlash becomes like too much. Yeah. You know, that's probably me, like, like applying too much pressure may, maybe it's like an indication. 

[02:32:13] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:32:13] Toliy: But some, sometimes, yeah.

[02:32:14] I could take it on like, like I don't really care. Yeah. You know? Um, but yeah, I think that like the, the, the key is probably to like get to a point where you can like, uh, calculate like a exactly what you get out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like pretend and like, like pretend to be like upset or pretend to do that so that you can summon it without the emotion that's right behind it.

[02:32:36] I think that you 

[02:32:37] Eldar: are right on it. Right on, man. I think you're right on. If you are able to, like I said, calculate exactly a specific response that you need in order for the other person to give you a response that you want out of it without being surprised. Yeah. Like, 

[02:32:52] Toliy: you, you, like, you, you, you did that to me on the James Cole.

[02:32:57] Eldar: Oh, yeah. 

[02:32:57] Toliy: Yeah. I did. Well, like, yeah, like you were able to like 

[02:33:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:33:03] Toliy: Intentionally talk in a particular way. Yes. And then like I thought into like particular things from it, obviously. Yes, 

[02:33:10] Eldar: correct. You know, 

[02:33:10] Toliy: and then the other, you fucking multitouch it. The other person's on the other line all, all also thinking particular things, you know?

[02:33:17] Yeah, yeah. Like, um Right. But there, there's not like an anger behind it know. Correct. 

[02:33:24] Eldar: There isn't. 

[02:33:25] Toliy: Yeah. Even though you might have perceived it, that that's what it was. Well, yeah. Like you have to figure out like the fuck's going on here, you know? That's right. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, because I summoned what I needed to summon.

[02:33:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's And i's what I'm, have very good 

[02:33:36] Eldar: reasons as to why I summoned what I summoned. 

[02:33:38] Toliy: That's what I'm saying is that the ability to summon those things without those things coming from a place of, of, of feeling. Yeah. I is the key. But that's also a hard part because it's like, from the feeling they come very natural and they're very like organic without thinking al almost organic.

[02:33:52] 'cause they're, they're, they're like deriving from, from like a feeling that, that you're having. Yeah. But to summon them is to think, you know, that's right. To, to, to summon them as like more the act of consciousness. When did you come to that 

[02:34:03] Eldar: conclusion? Because when after you came to the kitchen and you fucking bombarded me, you came to that conclusion that I actually did this on purpose.

[02:34:10] Um, after I gave you the, the, the key, like after I explained to you. 

[02:34:15] Toliy: No, I didn't even connect it to the, to 

[02:34:16] Eldar: the kitchen. Yeah. Really? When did you just realize? Just now? Yeah, I was just thinking about it just now. Wow. Yeah. Damn. You're a slow learner dog. 

[02:34:25] Toliy: Yeah. I thought I gave it to 

[02:34:27] Mike: you over 

[02:34:27] Toliy: there. Well, no, like I understood it.

[02:34:29] I, I definitely understood it more there, but I connected it. Yeah. Like what you actually like, like, like the, the, the intent is what I, what what I started to think about it like, like, uh, now. Yeah. But I know that you didn't like, like Yeah. I already knew obviously in the kitchen, that like, you, you, you didn't have like Yeah.

[02:34:44] Gen, genuine, like anger No. Behind it. Yeah. Even though you sounded angry. Yeah. You know. No, I wasn't like, uh, like there, but yeah, the, the intent is the, um, correct. The big thing. It's a 

[02:34:57] Eldar: big thing. 

[02:34:57] Toliy: Yeah. Be be because it lands on the other person's, on the other people's ears. Like, like the same way. But I would also argue that like, when you can sum summon it, because like you're summoning it and it's manufactured while the other person's reacting, you're already onto the next like step.

[02:35:14] Correct. Because like, you're not in the feeling That's right. You, you don't have the feeling, so you're completely like, yeah, you, you're, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like a movie. Almost a hundred Right percent. You're directing it how you want it to play out. Yeah. You're, you're the movie and you're not, you have the script, you're the actor.

[02:35:27] Like, you already know what's gonna happen while the other person's trying to figure out the fuck, like, like, what the fuck's happening here. Well, what's happening is 

[02:35:33] Eldar: actually you directing them to react a certain specific way. Well, 

[02:35:36] Toliy: yeah. That, that's like a crazy though, like, uh, yeah. You know. That, that, that, that actual concept of that, that like, like I definitely don't have the ability to, to, to, to do it like that.

[02:35:49] But that to me is the ultimate of like, it doesn't matter what the student says, it just matters whether the teacher does. And that is that that's the ultimate version of it. I am 

[02:35:57] Eldar: gonna conclude that, is that the fact that Joe is on one perception that he's trying to protect us Yes. Mm-hmm. From that which is going on.

[02:36:06] Yeah. Which is funny. Without, without re which is Yeah. It's a nice righteous thing to do. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I appreciate that for what it is. Yeah. You know what I mean? But, uh, he's underestimating how much protection we actually do have. 

[02:36:20] Toliy: Yeah. Joe Joe's a, uh, a, uh, civil servant. He's a civil Yeah, I heard, heard.

[02:36:26] He's the front line. I heard something like, 

[02:36:28] Mike: uh, the truth doesn't need to be defended, like, uh, correct. You know? Yes. So, 

[02:36:33] Eldar: yeah. You know, so that's it. Those are the final thoughts, guys. Thank you so much. As always, this is the best episode we ever had because every episode we have is the best episode we have.

[02:36:42] So like, is this shit is expensive? 

[02:36:44] Katherine: Why don't you say that in that, in that quote tone of voice. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Why, why, why don't you, uh, repeat that one 

[02:36:50] Eldar: again? No, uh, that only comes out I think when I have to go dig into the memory. 

[02:36:54] Katherine: It's very specific, but I mean, I, no, it's when you wanted to say something before, I'm very aware before, 

[02:36:59] Eldar: but I forgot and then I had to dig for it.

[02:37:01] Particular doesn't, it doesn't the same, it doesn't have the same, I wanted to say, but I didn't wanna interrupt what was totally saying. 'cause I like what you, you were saying, so I didn't wanna like put it in there, but, and then you, but nonetheless, it's a very good one, right? You gotta listen to it now before you fucking have to do play catch up.

[02:37:14] No, Mike, please gimme something. 

[02:37:17] Mike: Protect was bad timing. It was bad timing. The context was, it was not the, not not the right context. I was also 

[02:37:23] Eldar: thinking like, you know what? Like, but to some degree I like the fact that like, nobody's listening, you know, because of the fact that like, I never like, yeah. Do the, like every Sunday watch the episode.

[02:37:33] I like when it's accumulated, like the whole season. I can watch the whole season at once. Yeah. So it's kind of like if there's people out there that actually like to listen to the whole thing, it's good that we have accumulation of a lot. Yeah. Yeah. But the motherfuckers that have the OCD, they're like, yo, I want to listen to one, but then I have to listen to all this.

[02:37:49] Fuck, they're in the fucking prison sentence for this. 

[02:37:51] Toliy: What, what would Harris do it when he's president? Like if you, like, if you, if you break the law, yeah. You have to listen to the whole podcast from, from start to wherever. Wherever. It's like you can't, you're in a 

[02:38:02] Eldar: cell and can't until finish it. Listen, this.

[02:38:05] Yeah. Yeah. What the fuck? That'd be crazy. All right guys. Thank you so, so much. Listen.