175. The Pain of Accountability: Why We Dodge It

Can we track down the origin of needing to take accountability in the first place? 

In this riveting episode of Dennis Rox, the crew dives into the complexities of accountability, sparked by Eldar’s question about its origins. Through a personal anecdote about a tense morning with Katherine’s medical procedure, Eldar explores how attachments and stress lead to blame-shifting. Toliy argues that ignorance fuels the avoidance of accountability, while Mike links it to unlearned lessons from childhood. Joe’s story of owning a broken taillight highlights the freedom in truth. The group unpacks how social pressures and rigid thinking create barriers to self-governance, advocating for cognitive flexibility to align personal reality with truth, reducing the need for painful accountability.

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Chapters

• 0:42 The Role of Accountability in Our Lives
• 5:08 Personal Accountability and Relationships
• 22:03 Compounded Stresses and Accountability
• 36:15 The Role of Ignorance in Desire and Attachment
• 46:43 The Impact of Childhood Experiences
• 1:05:38 Social Pressures and Reputation
• 1:14:33 The Role of Social Interaction
• 1:20:41 The Importance of Cognitive Flexibility
• 1:46:03 Final Thoughts on Accountability

Transcript

[00:00:00] Toliy: On this week's episode, a whole accountability thing to me, again, it just continues to, to come down to 

[00:00:05] Eldar: ignorance. There's a lot more that actually going is going on. If you really unpack it, 

[00:00:10] Toliy: what outside of ignorance is going on? 

[00:00:13] Mike: Accountability is a person, they never learned that it's okay to make mistakes because it was never explained to them how to move past those mistakes.

[00:00:22] They created a protection. 

[00:00:25] Toliy: The culture you can. To align your own worldview with the V worldview. That person who does that, they view everything as like opportunities for progress versus personal attacks.

[00:00:42] Eldar: Alright guys, uh, today's topic is accountability and how it affects our psyche and how it plays a, a very specific role in our lives. The inability to take accountability, right? See where accountability is needed, uh, is called for, uh, and most importantly, take taking accountability for some stuff. You 

[00:01:05] know, however, um, 

[00:01:12] why do we have to take accountability in the first place?

[00:01:14] That's what came to mind. 

[00:01:15] Speaker 5: Mm, 

[00:01:16] Eldar: right? Um, can we track down the, the birth of needing to take accountability in the first place? Why do we have to take accountability for so. Right. Like, what happens? What do we attach ourselves to? What did we perform? Mm-hmm. Got wrong. Mm-hmm. And then can't be accountable for, right?

[00:01:38] Mm-hmm. So I think that we need to track it down to see what, what's the root cause of us unable a lot of people unable to take accountability. 

[00:01:46] Mike: Oh, I remember the third thing. There you go. Yeah. It was accountability, rebuttals, and, uh, lack of empowerment. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which is, 

[00:01:54] Eldar: which is all three, I think in connected You said?

[00:01:55] In connected. Yeah. Right. Which I agreed with. Mm-hmm. 100%. Because if you can't take accountability. Yeah. Well, the way you don't take accountability is you use rebuttals. Mm-hmm. Right. You rebuttal. Yes. Everything that's being thrown at you. Right. Yeah. And obviously because you never, uh, see the accountability through, you can't get empowered.

[00:02:15] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:15] Eldar: Because you can change, uh, based on what you've been wrong about. Mm-hmm. Right. You gotta just. Stick to your guns, stick to your ego and pride. Yep. Um, you can't take accountability, so you kind of can't move on. You can't be empowered ultimately. Mm-hmm. So the question is around 

[00:02:32] Speaker 5: mm-hmm. 

[00:02:33] Eldar: Can we track down the origin of needing to take accountability in the first place?

[00:02:38] So why was that, that I, that 

[00:02:39] Mike: idea, like, invented in the first place or? Yeah. Like, you 

[00:02:43] Toliy: know, no, but why, why was like, like, I feel like, or maybe the, the way I'm understanding it, or maybe the way that you're saying it. Yeah. Um, like to me it feels like, um, like they, you're you're asking about tracking them the origin of needing to take accountability in the first place.

[00:03:01] Yeah. But 

[00:03:01] like, um, accountab, so, so 

[00:03:09] there, there is a, uh, responsible, uh, party for every action that's taken, right? Like in general, in the world. There's like a world order of like. There is like, if, if there was an AI that just like held like balance sheet of everyone's actions, everything there, like there's, there, there's an owner to every single action and like, like everything, right?

[00:03:31] Like math, right? It's like you throw off this rock off the Yeah. Like on the floor, like you throw it. Yeah. And then if it fell because you did something. Yeah. This, this rock will never like, fall, move itself. Yeah. Yeah. It won't move itself, right? Yeah. Um, or if there's like a earthquake world disaster, then the world disaster.

[00:03:49] Like move it for, for example, right? But like accountability, just using that word is like, uh, it's like, it's just your own, like, um, like your own, uh, like order, order of why some something happened, but that like there's accountability being taken. Like there's. An owner to the, to, to, to whatever was done.

[00:04:13] Right. But a lot of times there isn't. Right. The person who's 

[00:04:16] Eldar: own owned the shit doesn't take accountability. Oh, so, so there isn't an owner only for that person. Right. Well, you're talking about subjective versus objective, right? 

[00:04:25] Toliy: Yeah. Like that like, like if, like if, if if I throw this rock on the floor and I say no, I didn't and you guys saw me clearly do it.

[00:04:33] Yeah. Like, even if I don't take accountability, I still did it. Yeah. In reality. Yeah. So account like accountability, um, is just you, somebody taking responsibility for something that hap that did happen no matter what. Even if they didn't e even if they do or don't take responsibility for it. 

[00:04:53] Eldar: I think your example with the rock moving or throwing the rock down is like, um, it's an easy example to be Yeah.

[00:04:59] You know, to hold, you know, it's easy example. Yeah. It's too easy. Yeah, too easy. I think 

[00:05:03] Mike: accountability is more complicated because you could be like. Imagine in, in a relationship, get into argument with your partner or your friend, your family member, and you blame the other person. You hold them accountable for whatever transpired.

[00:05:18] Speaker 5: Yeah. 

[00:05:19] Mike: But you are under the wrong impression of what's actually the truth of the matter. And you don't take accountability, you blame them, but you are the one who caused the problem, or you behaved improperly or you came out a face. Whatever it is, it is much more complicated than 

[00:05:35] Toliy: no, for sure. But, but, but I'm saying is that like, what's the question around it?

[00:05:38] Because like, in that example, well, okay, how about this? 

[00:05:41] Eldar: Alright, before we go into the hypotheticals, how about I throw out example, an actual example here of mine 

[00:05:46] Toliy: and, and, and, and what, and I want for the record, right, we, we all agree that, um, accountability is only not taken in a state of ignorance.

[00:05:54] Correct. 

[00:05:57] Eldar: Let, let's get to back to that. Okay. Alright. Okay. Here's an example. How you guys want. Maybe we can unpack this. Mm-hmm. Here's, here's what transpired. 

[00:06:04] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:05] Eldar: Catherine had a procedure done. You guys know about it? Mm-hmm. Right? Recently, right? No, I don't know about it. Oh, okay. Well, she had a procedure done just the other day.

[00:06:15] Well, that's why I was like, half the day I wasn't here. 

[00:06:17] Toliy: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I didn't know 

[00:06:18] Eldar: You didn't tell him. Oh, he didn't ask. Oh, I like that. Alright, so, alright. So Catherine had a procedure done. Mm-hmm. Her appointment Okay. Was at 10 30 in the morning. 

[00:06:28] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:29] Eldar: She had a procedure done, which I needed to drive her.

[00:06:31] Mm-hmm. And I needed to pick her up mm-hmm. Because she was put on there. Okay. Um, the appointment was at 10 30. Katherine's notoriously, uh, again, like, maybe I'm being biased now, but Ka Catherine's notoriously known to be late to things. Yeah. Okay. Um, so while I'm getting ready right. She's getting ready.

[00:06:51] Mm-hmm. She's running around the house. I'm running around the house, I'm feeding the dogs or whatever, and we need to kind of step out already. Right? Mm. And we're gonna, and I said, oh, don't worry about it, baby. Don't worry about the breakfast. I'll just pick up a bagel for myself. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

[00:07:03] That day. Um, so as I'm feeding the dogs, my dad calls me, you know, my dad starts rambling about some stuff. He's like, RI fell and stuff. He started showing me his thing. Mm-hmm. That he hurt himself, you know? 

[00:07:15] Yeah. 

[00:07:16] And I'm looking at that, you know, and then he's like, oh, can you order me these vitamins or whatever?

[00:07:19] Katherine's still running around kind of things he like, and now Katherine's finished running around. She's like, yo, we gotta go. Mm-hmm. You know, and I'm kind of still on, on the phone with my dad, right. Uh, feeding the dogs. And she starts getting aggravated. She's like, didn't I tell you now we're late?

[00:07:33] Yada, yada, yada, you know what I mean? Like, what the hell, babe? You know? Mm-hmm. Like, she got very aggravated Mm. With me, you know? Mm-hmm. So I drop everything real quick. I'm like, okay, cool. This is like a serious thing. I guess we gotta go, even though I kind of knew it was 10, like it needed to be at 10 30.

[00:07:45] Mm-hmm. And we're, we had plenty of time to get there. We, it was probably a 10 minute ride to promise, right? Mm-hmm. And, uh, wait, what time 

[00:07:51] Toliy: was this? 

[00:07:52] Eldar: It's probably 10. 10. Okay. 10 15. Yeah. Okay. But, you know, I mentioned that maybe I just grab a bagel on the way there, you know, she's like, before she said, okay, so we come outside, she's scrambling and scraping for shit as always.

[00:08:09] Right? Yeah. Um. Obviously there's tension between us now, right? Mm-hmm. She was kind of as I call, nasty to me. Yeah. And I kind of mouthed off. I was like, yo, I'm ready. Like, you know, I was just feeding the dogs kind of thing. I was like, yo, penny ate, and Archie, you know, you have to give him the boo, you know, she's or your dad on the phone, whatever ke she just call back, you know?

[00:08:28] She's like already high level of like mm-hmm. Frustrated. Right. You know what I mean? Um, and I come outside and I'm ready now. I'm like, I'm ready now. I beat her. Yeah. She's still gotta take her shit. Yeah. So she's taking five minutes to get her shit now. She gets into the car, she goes, do you have the medical card, the insurance card?

[00:08:46] I'm like, I think I do. She's like, can you bring your wallet? 'cause I need it. I, I don't know where mine is. She's scraping through her bags. She can't find her shit. I go through my wallet, my wallet does, my wallet does not have the medical card. 'cause I didn't transfer it from the other car. Okay. Okay. So I'm like, I'll go find it now I'm taking more time to go find something for her.

[00:09:03] Yes. While she's scraping, scrambling for shit as well, you know? Yeah. Open the garage, open the car, I'll find the thing and give her the medical card. I'm like, Hey, here's mine. You know, use it 'cause she can't find hers. 

[00:09:15] Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:15] There's tension still. Yeah. We get in the car. Okay. And we drive. 

[00:09:20] Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:20] And we're driving silence.

[00:09:22] Okay. Mm-hmm. To the place. Yeah. 

[00:09:26] And as we start passing the bagel exit, you gotta take a shit. No. Okay. She goes, how long will it take for you to get the bagels? 

[00:09:38] Yeah. And I said, what, one minute, two minutes, 10 minutes? No, I said, we're not getting the bagels. Bagels. 

[00:09:47] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:09:49] Eldar: Yeah. What do you mean you made a crazy stink?

[00:09:51] Yeah. Okay. In the house. Mm-hmm. Okay. About the shit. And now you want to take a detour before you go to your procedure. Mm-hmm. I thought, I thought we were late. What is happening? Right. Mm-hmm. So I said, no, we're not. Mm-hmm. I'm not, I'm not pulling over for that. Now it's, this is important. I'm taking you there.

[00:10:08] Yeah. I'm getting the bagels afterwards. Yeah. So we continue to sit in silence. Okay. Up until I pull over and I say, okay, you know, I guess they'll call me when, when you're ready. 

[00:10:18] Mm-hmm. You know, 

[00:10:19] she said, okay. So she left to the procedure and I went to work. I went to give the bagels. Mm-hmm. You know?

[00:10:26] Mm-hmm. So, accountability. Who's right, who's wrong? Who's willing to take accountability? Who's not? Yeah. The moment is the moment. Yeah. She's going to a procedure where they're putting her under, didn't get the blessing from me. Didn't get a kiss goodbye. Yeah. Didn't get any of it. 

[00:10:40] Oh, yeah. 

[00:10:41] You know what I'm saying?

[00:10:42] Sit afterwards. She, she, you know, after I pick her up, after she woke up, right? Mm-hmm. When she's all woozy or whatever, she obviously tells me like, Hey, I felt so sad after, you know, before, you know, before going in and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Because we had that little moment or whatever. I'm sorry for being short.

[00:10:56] She did have to fast. Okay. So she was cranky. Mm-hmm. You know, she mentioned that and I was like, it's okay baby. Like, you know, like you put it all on me like I'm this bad guy, you know, trying to make you late on purpose here. Mm-hmm. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. You late all the time. Yeah. You know, everywhere all the time and stuff, you know.

[00:11:12] So, but before that it wasn't seen, but I guess maybe she was trying to take accountability by saying, Hey, how long will it take to get the bagels? Mm. You know, how long will it take this detour? You know, kind of trying to smooth out the situation. Yeah. But I was already like, yo, I'm already put off. I'm like, what the fuck?

[00:11:28] Mm-hmm. Why did I get all this mm-hmm. On me? Backlash on me. Yeah. You are actually late. You are not prepared. You don't have the medical card. Now I'm looking for mine to give you that. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Uh, why do we make all this? Think why don't we take accountability? Why can't we just by default be nice?

[00:11:44] Right? Hmm. And what, what, what happens, happens, you know? But don't we make a big deal out of stuff? Then we have to eat shit. Right. She's sitting in that, in that room before going on there. Oh, yeah. To do her procedure. It sounds terrible. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. In her own thoughts mm-hmm. By herself.

[00:12:00] Obviously I'm not feeling great. I, you know mm-hmm. I, I, I recognize that it's fucked up. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. That's not the way you want to leave off when somebody's gonna go under Yeah. You know what I mean? But it is what it is. 

[00:12:12] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:12] Eldar: You know, and after Otherwards we spoke about it, she took accountability, uh, of how she felt and why she felt she said it to me, and obviously I said, yeah, it's all right, babe.

[00:12:21] You know, whatever, we smoothed out. Mm-hmm. So I told, is this a good example of accountability? Not being able to take accountability? Is this a complex example? Well, is this a good example for something like this? Well, yeah, but I don't, where an individual was very set on their stuff, had their attachments to make sure that they're on time there.

[00:12:39] Right. And then they, right. 

[00:12:41] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:43] Eldar: Uh, behaved the way they do. They don't wanna take accountability, the fact that they're the ones who are not prepared. 

[00:12:49] Toliy: Mm-hmm. No. No. But see, see, like for, for me, my, my main problem, and what, what we're saying is that, uh, one with the word co with the word complex. Mm-hmm. Uh, and two with the word want, like, I, I don't view either of these two, two things as like, something that's actually happening.

[00:13:07] I, I don't think, um, accountability is not something that you want to or not want to. It, it's something that you, you, you, you either like, like, uh, like, um, in that moment that like, like accountability, it's like, um, like it's, I I don't think it's like a choice. It's either like, who you are at that moment in that thing or you're not, I don't think it's possible to say I don't wanna take accountability for it, because to me it's like you not wanting to do it.

[00:13:37] Like, like is is basically like you, you're ignorant so you don't understand what. What's going on. And that to me is like what it is, like accountability is like you not understanding the reality of things. So someone who does not understand the reality of things in, in that moment, in that sit situation, it, they don't have a choice that they're making whether to take they accountability or not.

[00:14:02] So like to, to that, that's why I have a problem with like, calling it like, but 

[00:14:07] Eldar: my, my, my whole thing, uh, let me just finish this. Mm-hmm. With the, with the, based on the example is that my whole question around this whole accountability thing, right? Mm-hmm. Is like, how, how can we position ourselves in such a way, well, we don't need to put ourselves in the, on the back end of the account needing to take accountability in the first place.

[00:14:23] Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Because like, if Catherine didn't take this, this thing, this procedure, uh, as seriously as she did, right? If she was okay with being five or 10 minutes late, you know what I mean? Then there was no accountability to be taken because there would be a regular morning. With the regular blessings.

[00:14:42] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:43] Eldar: And everything will be as it should be. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. But she decided to, like I said, attach herself to a very specific procedure 

[00:14:52] Speaker 5: mm-hmm. 

[00:14:53] Eldar: To get done. It was very important. Right. Coupled with the fact that she's always late everywhere and she doesn't feel good about that for herself. We spoke about that as well.

[00:15:02] Mm-hmm. Right. All that mangled together had to be lashed out onto me. Well then that made me feel a certain type of way, but then it all showed, all her actions afterwards showed that like, uh, why am I the victim here? Mm-hmm. Why am I to blame here for one? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? So, like I said, I think that the after effects of all the things that we kind of get into, right.

[00:15:27] And needing to take accountability in the first place can be avoided if you move a very specific way where you don't have to take accountability for anything because you know how to move properly. 

[00:15:39] Toliy: Yeah. But that's, you know, how to, not to. That's like significantly harder than I think. Like, like, like there is, like, I think it's very hard for anyone to put themselves in a position where they're like, they're not required to take accountability for like anything because like, 

[00:15:58] Eldar: no, but okay, fine.

[00:15:59] Anybody and maybe the general public, but isn't that what we're striving for? At least for myself, I don't want to be put in positions where I need to be accountable for stuff that I did wrong. 

[00:16:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:16:12] Eldar: And then I need to do the cleanup job. 

[00:16:16] Mike: Yeah. I think, I think, uh, I don't want 

[00:16:18] Eldar: to be that I, I'd like to calculate and be in such a way where, you know, like there's no conversations about accountability.

[00:16:24] Mm-hmm. Because I didn't need to take accountability. Yeah. You know? Sure. The steps that I take if I get up from here to there, you could hold me accountable for those steps, but like, so what? I did take those steps, whatcha gonna do about it? 

[00:16:33] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:34] Eldar: What, what mistake that I made in those, taking those steps.

[00:16:37] Throwing that rock down, like what's gonna happen? Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:39] Toliy: Yeah. Like you, [00:16:40] you'll, you'll probably have to like, 

[00:16:43] Eldar: is that what we're striving for? At least in philosophy, or at least in, in, in the things that we're thinking about. Yeah. Right. But I think so, but I think it's like 

[00:16:49] Toliy: a paradox because like, um, I think, I still think that you'll, you'll take accountability, but it's not gonna have to be a thing where like a, like a thing where like something bad happens and then like, like, like, because like in the situation that you're depicting, like some, something happened, like a person didn't realize, like what was going on and what they were doing or how they were acting.

[00:17:13] And then like, they had to act a particular way to another person, which led to like, like, you know, not great feelings. And then, um, like during the process, I guess like, um, that wouldn't have happened if the person was like accountable, but then them being accountable is them like understanding what's going on.

[00:17:35] So, so like, yeah, there's just like two, 

[00:17:37] Eldar: no, no, no. Wait a second. I, I think, okay. Let's, let's go back and rewind it to what we mean by being accountable. I think taking accountability is after the fact that something happened. Mm-hmm. And then you are being accountable for what it is that happened and you take ownership of it finally realizing that you 

[00:17:53] Toliy: did this well, no, no, but I think that there's, before that, there's, there's accountability.

[00:17:59] Like, I don't, don't think what needed to play out. Uh, and then you'd be account, like, like in, in that example, she was accountable for the way that she treated you. Correct. She took accountability for it. Right. Afterwards. Afterwards, okay. Yes. Well, which is, this is what we're talking about. The, the accountability.

[00:18:16] I'm talking about Uhhuh is that if you're, um, not prepared, if you're late, if things are not going, if things are going in a particular way because of how you set yourself up. Like you didn't prepare the card, you didn't like. Have enough time to like, or, or like, like you may have had the wrong perception of time, of how long things to get there.

[00:18:34] Like you didn't prepare properly. Y like if things are going, like, if things are late, you need to be accountable before that. For like, for, for, for what's playing out. Like you're not supposed to No. But on time 

[00:18:47] Eldar: here, 

[00:18:47] Toliy: no. You know. 

[00:18:48] Eldar: No, I get it. But like we, we dropped the ball already. The ball has been dropped.

[00:18:52] You dropped the ball for yourself, 

[00:18:53] Toliy: Well's saying, but, but if you took accountability there, then you would not be upset at the other person afterwards. 

[00:18:58] Eldar: But if 

[00:18:59] Toliy: that, that, 

[00:19:00] Eldar: that's if you did it already on your own internally. Well, it, accountability is only internal. Okay. Sometimes it's outward. Right. Like where, where it is being spoken upon.

[00:19:12] Especially if you hurt others. Right. And sometimes it's internal 'cause you did it on your own. Right. The there's mistake. The taking 

[00:19:18] Toliy: of it. 

[00:19:18] Eldar: Yeah, the taking of it. Sometimes you have to apologize, taking accountability, apologizing sometimes, right? Yes. Yes. Okay. If there's nobody to, if you didn't hurt anyone.

[00:19:28] Right. Yeah. You don't have to apologize. That part, you don't have to do, you skip that part. You just have to say, ah, I'm an idiot to yourself. Yeah. I did this. How do I learn from it? That's taking accountability, right. For yourself internally. Yeah. You don't have to say. Yeah, so, so I don't think it necessarily 

[00:19:43] Toliy: re requires an apology, but I think it, it does require acknowledgement.

[00:19:48] Acknowledgement that, that like, that. Like what? Like this happened, what transpired This because of, I, I own this. 

[00:19:52] Eldar: Correct? 

[00:19:53] Toliy: Yes, 

[00:19:53] Eldar: correct. 

[00:19:53] Toliy: You own what happened, correct. You know? Yes. Yeah. We don't, 

[00:19:56] Eldar: I don't think we have a disagreement here. 

[00:19:57] Toliy: Yeah. But, but, but I'm saying is that if, if she owned, like of what was happening and how it was transpiring and, and all that, then there would, like you can't be upset at anybody else afterwards.

[00:20:08] You can't act Correct. A particular way. Correct. Right. It's like, 

[00:20:11] Mike: yeah. 

[00:20:12] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:14] Mike: I think we, I think we're talking about the one that usually happens is people get into a problems relationship afterwards. Yeah. We're not talking about the one that you're describing, which is like the. Knowing yourself and acting in accordance and being able to, in a panic moment, act properly, think clearly and be logical.

[00:20:33] We're talking about more after already the scuffle has happened. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Which, which I think that's a little bit different, 

[00:20:41] Eldar: you know, 

[00:20:43] Mike: but the one, the one you, the one you mentioned, um, what you said that

[00:20:49] Eldar: I pictured some of the stuff that to ISS talking about, and I only imagine they know we have a subject here, Harris, right. How many times does he reflect to himself on all the things that he's. Quote unquote is aware of that he's doing wrong to himself and then go, sits down and goes, yeah, I shouldn't have done that.

[00:21:07] Right. Well, yeah. I very advanced most of the stuff. Right. Most of the stuff right now for him is an hourly one of course. Where he does something. 

[00:21:14] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:14] Eldar: He's affecting others by doing it. Right. He says certain things mm-hmm. In a very specific way mm-hmm. That he's wrong about. 

[00:21:22] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:22] Eldar: And then it lands on us and like, wait, what are you talking about?

[00:21:24] And then he doesn't want to take any kind of accountability. 

[00:21:26] Toliy: Yeah. Well, y yes. So one, one thing I also just thought about is that, like when you were saying that like, we're obviously striving towards moving a particular way where like you don't, like, you don't need to do the apologizing part of the accountability, but the moving the particular way is I think positioning yourself, like reprogramming your subconscious to position yourself in ways where everything that you do belongs to you.

[00:21:51] And you don't need to like, um, like you, you, like you, you take accountability by default, by default. By setting yourself up like correctly, I guess, right? Correct. But the, uh, the, the difficult thing and, and like this is just like a growth thing over like time, but e even I think that like, like the most advanced people will still suffer this because it's difficult to account for compounded, um, stresses.

[00:22:20] What I mean by, well explain, explain that. Yeah. Yeah. Like compounded stresses is, is like, well, like in this scenario, maybe like, like, like what unfolded with CAT is that there's a, uh, appointment. It's at a particular time already. There's a stress involved in the beginning because this is a person who's notoriously late, for example.

[00:22:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:38] Toliy: Right. So there's a re already a stress there that that person is like, you, you could probably, um, before this even happened, probably envision, correct. A hundred percent. Right. All right, now. Uh, there's the, there's an issue with, uh, I don't know, the fear of the procedure. Like Yeah. The fear of the procedure.

[00:22:56] Let's just say you were doing like a load of laundry. Yeah. And then the machine died. 

[00:23:01] Eldar: The, the, the, the, what's the name? The dishes in the sink are still there. 

[00:23:03] Toliy: Yeah. Dishes in the sink. Uh, for example, the medical card you thought was gonna be in your wallet. In your wallet. Now it's not. Yeah. So now when you start compounding all of these different, different, um, stresses, that is much more difficult to account for because now, like you're depicting an image where like somebody got a ticket, a flat tire, right?

[00:23:24] Mm-hmm. Um, um, what's it called? Their car got hit, right? Yeah. And then like, uh, they're carrying groceries and the milk carton fell out of the, uh, their, uh, bag and it, and it spilled everywhere. Yeah. Right? Like you start taking all those things, like the person like that, it's too, too much stress all at one time.

[00:23:43] That was not calculated. Um, that's gonna create like a, like chaos and how long it creates chaos, how big like, and the impact it has. Yeah. That the impact it has, like, that's going to, uh, to, um, ver uh, like, like differ person to person, you know? Yeah. But like, even that is like, well, positioning yourself for that is hard.

[00:24:07] Eldar: Yeah. Well, now that we've experienced that, obviously I will try to, like, if anything like this happens again where there's an important thing going on or whatever, I wanna make sure that I ask the right questions and going forward, right. To ensure that I'm not on the line of fire. Mm-hmm. For what reason am I on the line of fire here?

[00:24:24] You know? Yeah. In that sense, some, there's some, like the impact that it hap has, right? Just because you have all this compounded stress that he's talking about does not necessarily mean that the other individual is supposed to, um, feel the, the, the force, I mean the, the collateral be collateral damage. Uh, based on the things that you're experiencing internally.

[00:24:47] Yeah, but 

[00:24:47] Toliy: I, but, but I still think that it's okay to, if like, as long as it's examined the collateral damage, I think is like, at times. Okay. 

[00:24:55] Eldar: Because 

[00:24:55] Toliy: No, 

[00:24:55] Eldar: no, totally. I'm not saying it's not okay. Yeah. And I'm not saying that it's not gonna continue to happen. Well, I'm saying that if we are thinking beings, yeah.

[00:25:02] I think we think about these things to ensure that we do preventative care. Right? And ultimately get to the point that you are talking about and have the self-accountability internalize most of the time that then you don't have to have this impact, external impact on others, for example. Right? Mm-hmm.

[00:25:18] That's what we're striving for. No, 

[00:25:21] Toliy: yeah. No, no, no. But I thought in the way that you're talking about is that like you, you need to change stuff. 

[00:25:26] Eldar: Well, I need to change stuff too, because I, I also, I wanna make sure that I'm raising awareness. 

[00:25:31] Toliy: Oh, okay. In the raising awareness of it. 

[00:25:33] Eldar: Yeah. Okay. Because I don't want to, why, why would I wanna experience that again?

[00:25:36] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Okay. 

[00:25:37] Eldar: If something comes about again, I'm like, oh, you are attached to this. Oh, you have stress. Oh, you have compounded stress. Oh, you didn't do this, you didn't do that. Oh, did you? I'll ask the right questions to make sure that that is, that stress is alleviated right. Thought of. And I don't get the collateral damage mm-hmm.

[00:25:55] From it. Because, but 

[00:25:56] Toliy: you don't view that, that it's a good, like even if you were to get the collateral damage again, that it's a good learning opportunity for the other person. It is. A hundred percent. It's still a 

[00:26:04] Eldar: learning opportunity. Totally. But, uh, we have to learn, no, I've learned from this experience to now do something else.

[00:26:13] So I'm thinking that I'm leveling up and helping the other individual by raising awareness in the way I moved. Mm-hmm. Right. To raise more awareness on the fact that like, look, you probably have a problem when it comes to being on time, 

[00:26:25] uh, gigs up. Yeah. Right.

[00:26:31] Yo. Yeah, for sure. Stress yourself out. Mm-hmm. As much as you want. 

[00:26:36] Mm-hmm. Don't be on time. Uh, feel guilty about not being on time. 

[00:26:42] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:42] Eldar: Beat yourself up over not being on time. 

[00:26:46] That's your choice. 

[00:26:47] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:48] Eldar: You can have it, but don't impact others. Mm-hmm. Right. 

[00:26:54] Why, why are you, why are you swerving into somebody else's lane?

[00:26:58] This is just my example. Mm-hmm. We do this all the time. 

[00:27:00] Yeah. 

[00:27:00] Right. Yeah. But we're constantly swerving in other people's lanes. Mm-hmm. Right. 

[00:27:05] Yeah. 

[00:27:06] As soon as that happened, I started thinking about the times when I get sick, I also get short. Mm-hmm. I also feel certain type of way. Yeah. I get it. Right. It makes me evaluate like, yo, sure I'm sick, but it doesn't mean that I still have to be short or nasty to anybody, to mm-hmm.

[00:27:20] Know sentient beings, dogs or you know, or whatever. But I know I am. Sometimes I'm compromised. Yeah. I get it. I think that's what Tony's talking about, the compounded stress equals a compromised state and in the compromised state. Mm-hmm. We do things that then we have to hold account accountability, uh, court.

[00:27:41] Mm-hmm. Who did what, why did you do this? Mm-hmm. Explanations. Yeah. And then at the end of it, if you've learned to grow or acknowledge apologies. Yep. I do not wish for myself to be in this apologetic state for long periods of time, nor do I wish anyone else listening to this fucker, you guys let alone, you know what I mean?

[00:28:01] Where I want everyone to thrive. Like totally said on an internal police that you have your own, what do they call fucking 

[00:28:09] autonomy. Mm-hmm. To police yourself, have that accountability 

[00:28:17] way before it comes out of you, and then starts affecting your relationship as well 

[00:28:21] with others. 

[00:28:22] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:25] Eldar: Right. Yeah.

[00:28:29] So how do we track down 

[00:28:31] this accountability thing? What does it tie to that? Again, like I said, uh, I mean I already gave the answer to, but what does it tie to that? It shows its face and it needs to show its face and then you have to learn a lesson. Like totally said. Yeah. You learn the lesson, but mm-hmm.

[00:28:49] Uh, I don't wanna learn the lesson forever, bro. Yeah. I wanna learn it once or twice or three times and I'm gonna be done with it so I don't have to keep fucking relearning the same thing. Yeah. Mike, no, for sure had situation, right? We had a situation with Harris, we made the bets. Right. Mike didn't see the situation for what it is, uh, was going against it.

[00:29:09] Mm-hmm. And then he acknowledged that he had to take accountability, ask him. Mm-hmm. Did you feel good about that? No. No. Obviously take accountability and then growing from it. He'll feel good about it going forward. Mm-hmm. You wanna learn from that experience. Yeah. Right. 'cause you've learned something.

[00:29:27] Mm-hmm. You took accountability, you've learned something going forward, you'll do better. 

[00:29:30] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:31] Eldar: Do you wanna repeat the same shit again? No. No. Of course not. Nobody does. 

[00:29:35] Toliy: Yeah. No, I'm, no, not that, that's definitely not, not, not what I'm arguing. Like I'm not trying to. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm definitely not arguing that, that no one wants to do that.

[00:29:42] I was say no, no, you said 

[00:29:43] Eldar: that. It's a good lesson. I agree with you a good lesson. Yeah. No, 

[00:29:45] Toliy: I, I was saying specifically in your example, because like the other person from all this happening is suffering. Like, like you got clipped with a couple of bullets. Yeah. Like somewhere, right? Yeah. You have a few cuts.

[00:29:56] Yeah. But like the other person has wounds, uh, as a result of this. Right. So I was only talking about it in the, um, like, uh, like, um, um, in the ways that like, um, like.

[00:30:14] You may, you, you may be getting clipped, clipped, clipped, for example, again, could be a bigger lesson for someone else. I agree. And I'm always down to be a little bit of a martyr, bro. Y yeah, that I agree. Totally. Yeah. That, that was the only way I was like, uh, I'm not talking about my role here, talking about, I'm not talking about 

[00:30:29] Eldar: my role.

[00:30:30] It's not for me to have that accountability here. 

[00:30:32] Toliy: Yeah. No, no. I was only saying that because like, I, I've, I felt in the way that you were, like, you worded, is that like you need to learn from the uh, I do too. Situation. I do 

[00:30:40] Eldar: too. I definitely do too. Because I was caught off guard. It was morning. Mm-hmm. I got caught off guard.

[00:30:44] I'm like, yo, why is she yelling at me? 

[00:30:45] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:46] Eldar: Yeah. The fuck. Yeah. Like, I wish you Well, we're gonna get you there. Yeah. Like, but I, I almost feel if we're five, 10 minutes late, like, is that a big deal? I, I 

[00:30:53] Toliy: I almost view it as that, like the burden is not on you here to like, to change something because like, you didn't do anything wrong.

[00:30:59] Eldar: Well, no, no, no. If I was to, if I was to complain about the situation, I'd probably say that it is, the burden is on me. I'm not really complaining here. Yeah. You know what I mean? I, I'm, I'm okay with the way the situation played out and. What I came out with, with, from the situation where she came out.

[00:31:13] Toliy: Mm-hmm. You 

[00:31:14] Eldar: know what I mean? I'm okay with it. 

[00:31:15] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:31:16] Eldar: You know, I'm not com If I was complaining that I think the burden would be on me, I'm not complaining. The burden is not on me. I agree. 

[00:31:21] Mike: Yeah. But I, but the thing is, your situation is that usually how these things play out? Mm-hmm. Typically, right? Yeah.

[00:31:29] Both people have a scuffle. Mm-hmm. And both people feel like the other is wrong like you. Mm-hmm. You, you felt like you were clean here, right? Yeah. You, you didn't do anything wrong. 

[00:31:38] Eldar: Yeah. This is, I didn't understand what was happening, bro. I was like, what the fuck? And then, and then all the things, the evidence was coming, coming to light.

[00:31:45] I'm like, oh, she's the one who fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have a shit together. Yeah, 

[00:31:48] Mike: of course. But, but the thing is, typically, I, I think maybe not always, but my, my thing is that a lot of times both people blame each other. Mm-hmm. And it. No. And like, uh, they could be both wrong, could be one person, could be wrong.

[00:32:03] In this case, you were, you didn't do anything wrong as far as like what I heard, right? Like mm-hmm. You, you didn't, yeah, you were, you were ready. You ready to go? You we're on time. Everything you wanted, you need to do. You did. Yeah. And I even 

[00:32:14] Eldar: skipped the bagel part. 

[00:32:15] Mike: Yeah. A I think a lot of times what happens is if there's argument or there's some kind of, you know, beef, whatever.

[00:32:21] Yeah. Both people are involved and both people make mistakes in the way they communicate or they say stuff and argue. Sure. And the thing is, both people could be wrong about certain things that happen, I guess. And I think that's a different scenario where both people feel like, yo, I didn't do anything wrong.

[00:32:37] Or the person who did something wrong actually feels like, yo, I didn't do anything wrong. You, 

[00:32:41] Eldar: most of the time, that's what it's, yeah. Most of the time until you find out who should be taking accountability. Yes. Yeah. What's the actual facts of the matter? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. My whole question is right, is that I think accountability is probably.

[00:32:56] Uh, has its root in, in its certain attachments mm-hmm. And certain things where, uh, makes us take, makes us misstep and make wrong moves in life in reality that we then have to apologize for. 

[00:33:15] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:15] Eldar: But 

[00:33:15] Toliy: what, so why, why does it like that make, like, what, what do you mean [00:33:20] by it makes us like, what, what, what were you, 'cause of the attachments, 

[00:33:24] Eldar: you're saying 

[00:33:24] Toliy: the 

[00:33:24] Eldar: attachments, the attachments or our desires to certain things makes us 

[00:33:30] Speaker 5: mm-hmm.

[00:33:30] Eldar: Commit certain crimes Right. Against ourselves and then against others in reality that we have to apologize for mm-hmm. Yeah. That we have to learn from Yeah. And stuff like that, right. Like you said. Mm-hmm. In your example, you said, Hey, like, I know I, I had some issues from the past competition that a begrudge with totally whatever.

[00:33:51] Mm-hmm. Some of the things that. Made me act a certain type of way. 

[00:33:55] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:55] Eldar: That's why it came out the way I came out. Yeah. You see this? Mm-hmm. This is what I'm saying. Yeah. There's certain attachments. Mm-hmm. There's certain fears. Yeah. There's certain trauma 

[00:34:04] Speaker 5: mm-hmm. 

[00:34:06] Eldar: That is propelling a very specific attachment.

[00:34:09] Yeah. A very specific desire. 

[00:34:10] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:11] Eldar: And if we act out of those places mm-hmm. It's inevitable that we um, gonna make an impact, we're gonna have an explosion. And that explosion mm-hmm. Is gonna land on individuals who might not feel the same way at that moment. 

[00:34:26] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:27] Eldar: And it's almost like places a mirror in front of you, it says, yo, it's on you, bro.

[00:34:30] It ain't us. This is constantly happening with Harris. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, well, we're constantly trying to raise awareness about what's actually going on. Mm-hmm. Right. Versus what he's trying to peddle to us. Yeah. And then say, and trying to hide behind all these rebuttals, rebuttals, all these excuses.

[00:34:51] Yeah. That make no sense. As soon as we start breaking them down. Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:54] Toliy: Yeah. But, but, but see, like, like I, I, I definitely agree that part of it is like, um, it stemmed from your desires, attachments, right? Yeah. And your, your attachments. But it's also to, to me, like, um, like I almost view the, like a simpler way, um, to view it as almost like it, it stems from your understanding of how things are, right?

[00:35:19] And then like, oftentimes like, um, like those reactions are habitual ways of, um, of thinking. Like, there's not much thought being put into it. It's just, it's, it's just a, like a, a, uh, habitual reaction. It is not like, okay, say, Hey, here's a scenario we give 30 minutes take about. But Tony, if 

[00:35:40] Eldar: you really examine the habitual reaction, um.

[00:35:44] Wouldn't you say that you will still find that the reason why the habitual reaction is habitual is because there's some certain level of attachment and desire that's pinned behind it. 

[00:35:52] Toliy: So I I, I, um, I agree that there is both of those things, right? Yeah. But I think that tho those things are like the desire and the attachment happens from a, uh, reality that you understand that you believe in 

[00:36:08] Eldar: the begin that you've attached yourself to, to 

[00:36:09] Toliy: begin.

[00:36:09] Well, well, so, so, but, but it's, it, it's a reality that you view as true. Correct. Right? Yeah. So my point is that like, if it, it like, it, it stems like everything stems from being ignorant, like in that example, right? Yeah. So like, if you were not ignorant, then you would not have that desire or that attachment to begin with, or like, you, like you, you wouldn't have that, that, that like I issue.

[00:36:34] Correct. You know? Um, and then yeah, what, what, what transpires is just a. Habitual, like, um, response from trauma from PTSD, from Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. But like, um, in, in, in, in any example, whether it's one person or like, what, what Mike was saying, like, two people. Right. Um, like if, if it's two people not wanting to take accountability or not like able to, or like that, it's two people that have two different views of what happened.

[00:37:04] Which, which, which is also why, like, uh, if you think about like history and just like news and just like everything, everything, it's very important to know, like, it's very important the way that things are delivered and like, uh, when, when, when, like young kids, for example, read like history books, if, if, if you track it back, it's all about accountability.

[00:37:26] Who started that war? Who did this? Who pulled the trigger? Yeah. Right. Knowing all that like is very important because it, it leaves an impression. Right. Oh, Russia attacked United States. They did this, or Russia attacked, for example, Ukraine. Right. Like there's a very clear like, um, a very clear message being sent that this party right here is a responsible one 

[00:37:52] Eldar: responsible, 

[00:37:52] Toliy: and then it makes everyone like, think and act a particular way.

[00:37:57] Right? Sure. So like the, like the way that everything is depicted is, is through accountability. Accountability. The reason, reason why I don't view it as complicated is that, because like if it all stems from ignorance happening either on one side or multiple sides, then, then like, like it's difficult for me to feel like, like I'm way about this.

[00:38:19] You know? So what are you saying? 

[00:38:21] Mike: Yeah, 

[00:38:21] Toliy: he's saying you should is dead. Well, I'm saying, he's saying it's irrelevant. Like, well, how, well I think this is very important. 

[00:38:27] Mike: I think it's important too, man. Well, 

[00:38:28] Toliy: like. So, so like I, I view the whole concept as definitely important. I think being like, no, no. What I, what I'm saying is look, 

[00:38:35] Eldar: in life we're gonna go about life.

[00:38:36] Yeah. Right. And making mistakes and doing all this shit. Yes. And hopefully we know how to take accountability for the shit. Mm-hmm. Hopefully. Right. A lot of times we don't know how to do it. Right. But ultimately, right. Mm-hmm. You would like to go about life not needing to then have to be accountable for shit because you are moving in such a way where you leave little room for error.

[00:38:58] Mm-hmm. Or a little room for certain attachment or commitment where you then have to take any kind of accountability or any kind of stance about one way or the other. Mm-hmm. And I think that maybe Socrates may be understood that by even saying that, like, look, I know that I know nothing. I know some stuff maybe, but I know that I know nothing, so therefore I'm gonna go about life trying to figure it out.

[00:39:17] Mm-hmm. Right. And I think that anytime a week. Need to be accountable. It, it came from the fact that we took a stance on something and that stance came from a certain attachment. 

[00:39:28] Toliy: Mm-hmm. So, but it, it, so it could be from taking a stance, but it's also like if we have responsibility, for example. 

[00:39:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:35] Toliy: Right.

[00:39:36] Then we naturally have, uh, we'll, we will have a need to be accountable. Right. Like, with responsibility, like comes Well, 

[00:39:46] Eldar: how those two touched, uh, uh, uh, attached together. Like, how are they? Well, 

[00:39:50] Toliy: like, like, okay. Um, let's say it's, uh, like it's your job to bring in, like you took responsibility. You're gonna bring in breakfast into the office, right.

[00:40:01] And then you didn't bring it and everyone's hungry. Mm-hmm. For example, right. Like, and it was your responsibility to do it, and you didn't communicate that you couldn't. Mm-hmm. Like, like with you taking that responsibility, like if you were to forget or if you wouldn't be able to do it, or you had something else you would need, need to be taking accountability.

[00:40:20] For the responsibility that you took 

[00:40:23] Eldar: for the commitment that you've made. 

[00:40:24] Toliy: Yes, 

[00:40:26] Eldar: sure. Right? Sure. 

[00:40:27] Toliy: Yeah. Right. It's like if, if you, like if I'm watching Archie and, and Penny. 

[00:40:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:33] Toliy: And I'm, and I just leave the front door open, like wide open. Yeah. I didn't close it. Yeah. And I said, I'm gonna watch them. Yeah.

[00:40:39] Right. Like, that's irresponsible. Like if they just go and roam out and like, I don't know, walk to some other house. Yeah. Right. Like, that's like, that's my fault. 

[00:40:49] Mike: But yeah, like responsibility is like a, it is tied with accountability. Like where, uh, you, you, like a s responsibility is more like, uh, you did something.

[00:40:58] That you're responsible for, that you like, have the ownership for. And then accountability is like when you make a mistake, then you have to explain yourself why, or, 

[00:41:05] Toliy: well, yes, but responsibility can be used in like, it's, it's like mul multiple things. Sure. Like, well, 

[00:41:11] Mike: we're talking about with the, with the association with accountability.

[00:41:13] Right. I think the, 

[00:41:14] Eldar: yeah. The repercussions behind not being responsible. It's taking accountability. 

[00:41:17] Toliy: No, no, no. But I'm saying that there, there's another way that you can use the word responsibility. Like you have responsibilities, right? Mm-hmm. Like being responsible. Like you're, you're using it in like, like a, the way of like a, um, like an action, a verb.

[00:41:30] Mm-hmm. Right? I'm talking about it as in like a thing, right? Like if it's elder's responsibility, like he might, he, he has like, everybody here has responsibilities, right? Yeah. Sure. That like, we're, we're, we're also then responsible, but we're not talking 

[00:41:44] Mike: about like responsibility, like watching the laundry or something.

[00:41:47] Toliy: No, that's a responsibility. And if you don't do it, and now it affects someone else. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, like if they're the ones that like signed up for it or something like that. Right. Like, they're like, accountability is required if you're, if you don't do it 

[00:42:01] Eldar: well. Well, I think that you make an important point here is that if it starts to affect someone else, right?

[00:42:07] I, like I said, if Catherine 

[00:42:09] Toliy: mm-hmm. No, but it al also, even if it affects yourself, if you wanna live a, like a good progressing life to like learn. Whoa. 

[00:42:15] Eldar: Well there you go. I think you also 

[00:42:17] Toliy: need to take accountability for yourself. I agree with that a hundred 

[00:42:19] Eldar: percent. Mm-hmm. Yes. What I'm saying is that a lot of the times, right, the effect of all of it happens when it comes to not being able to take accountability for certain things is because of the fact that you've committed a certain crime against yourself, which also spilled out mm-hmm.

[00:42:33] Onto the world. Yeah. And then you're not being accountable or whatever. Right. In the case of Catherine, like I said, be late to all these other things. Yeah. You put me on it next time. You know what I'm gonna say? Take an Uber. 

[00:42:48] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:50] Eldar: I'll pick you up later because later it's gonna be better for me. Mm-hmm.

[00:42:53] Kind of thing, you know what I mean? Well, 'cause 

[00:42:54] Toliy: you can rely on yourself to be on time or to pick someone up or like to do it correctly. Correct. Yeah. 

[00:43:00] Eldar: Yeah. You know what I'm saying? 

[00:43:01] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:43:01] Eldar: Mm-hmm. So this is what we're talking about. I think that there's a difference between being internally accountable or responsible for yourself because you're not affecting anyone.

[00:43:11] Mm-hmm. No, but those are 

[00:43:13] Toliy: No, no, I'm, yeah. But, but, but they're like a, uh, they're hand in hand in the sense that it's impossible. Impossible. Mm-hmm. To be externally responsible in that kind of way, where you're not affected. If you are not internally responsible, 

[00:43:26] Eldar: you are wrong about that. Really? Yeah. You're wrong about that because you underestimate the empaths or the people pleasers and what they're willing to do and how they're willing to act because of what other people think about them.

[00:43:42] Speaker 5: Hmm. 

[00:43:43] Eldar: I think that's a little of a kicker there. This is an conclusion. No, 

[00:43:48] Toliy: but in what? No, but in what way? 

[00:43:49] Eldar: In the way that they'll say, you're telling 

[00:43:51] Toliy: me tho those people are, are internally responsible? Actually, they might not be. No, they're not. They're not. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying 

[00:43:57] Eldar: that the external one, you're saying that, look, if you can't be internally responsible and accountable, you probably won't be externally accountable and responsible.

[00:44:05] I'm telling you that certain people will play an act or role of No, 

[00:44:09] Toliy: no, but you're talking about a fake scenario. I'm, I'm talking about like, you know what I mean? Where they, they'll 

[00:44:12] Eldar: take 

[00:44:12] Toliy: the accountability. Yeah. Like for example, like, uh, like, um, just a people please if, if, like, if you're in the middle of, for example, CAPP being late and she's getting upset with you.

[00:44:23] Right. And she's late plenty of times. But like, it's not like she, like, I, I mean like she, she may be like upset or something like that, but it's not like she does physical punishment to herself mm-hmm. When late. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, it's not like, like, like when, when it's like their own stuff, they're always on time.

[00:44:40] But if it's something like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm like, you're depicting a scenario. I feel like that like. It's like people, like, like pretending I'm talking about in like a real scenario that like, it's, it's like when you bring in other people and there's collaboration and then there there's like different responsibilities or different, like there's more var because like the more people you bring in, the more variables there are.

[00:45:03] Right? 100% in, in general. Hundred percent right. And that will make it much harder to be responsible for actions than, than with yourself when like, you are the only variable is yourself. So pe people that have that, um, struggle with being responsible or, or like accountable with others, they way more strong.

[00:45:24] They way, way more, um, struggle with being accountable with themselves because I agree. They're, yeah. Yeah. They're generally I agree. Yes. Yeah. Their ignorance, um, like. They, they can't see their own ignorances. 

[00:45:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:45:41] Toliy: So they're guaranteed to struggle way more on their own. And then just the people when they collaborate with them, that, that, that's just a smaller glimpse as to the bigger problem that that person has with themselves.

[00:45:51] Eldar: I agree. 

[00:45:52] Toliy: Yeah. That's what I was saying. 

[00:45:53] Eldar: Yeah. I don't disagree with that. All I'm saying is that there is some ex exclusions with some people. Yeah. 

[00:45:59] Toliy: That's like pretenders, you know? 

[00:46:01] Eldar: Yeah. But I think, I think that like before you actually know them, you probably take them for face value nonetheless. You know what I mean?

[00:46:08] You could Yeah. I, for those moments. 

[00:46:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:46:12] Eldar: But again, go back to the topic. What do you guys think about the fact that, um, needing to take accountability in the first place is probably rooted in, uh, misperceptions about reality and then attachments that you've built? Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:27] Toliy: You know? Oh, yeah. It's, yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:28] Yeah. It's huge. And I think everybody, everybody, almost like, not, not everybody. 90, very high, nine 90 percentile people have it because all of us, when, when we're kids. Mm-hmm. Um, what happens when, like, you do something wrong, 

[00:46:46] Eldar: you get scolded. 

[00:46:47] Toliy: You get scolded. Yeah. How many times does the average kid throughout growing up gets scolded from the very day that they're born?

[00:46:53] I don't know, but a lot. Hundreds for sure. Right? Yeah. Hundreds. Yeah. Right. All those memories get lodged. Mm-hmm. And they all form particular reaction re reactions and attachments and like different things. Mm. And if you get scolded a lot more, you probably have way more like defense mechanisms. Defense mechanisms, P ptss for example.

[00:47:14] Right. Like different things like, like for example, like, like James for example, he, he brought up many times that like his family would like belittle him, right? Yeah. Or like bully him almost. 'cause he was like the younger Yeah. Si sibling. Yeah. That happens enough. You develop particular 

[00:47:30] Eldar: defense mechanisms, defense 

[00:47:31] Toliy: mechanisms, you act now a particular way.

[00:47:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:34] Toliy: And even on the smallest level, we all get like, like, um, scolded or like, or like that what that is, is like your parent is trying to hold you accountable 

[00:47:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:44] Toliy: For something at that time. Yeah. But they could hold you accountable. But either, like, you're not understanding as to what's going on. Like the parent doesn't like, like there, there, there's a way I think to hold people accountable or to do that in the process of them growing, growing up without needing to scold them and, and without giving those kids PTSD to when they're, they're older, you know?

[00:48:06] All right. 

[00:48:06] Eldar: So let's transition to that. What's the proper way of holding others accountable Explanation. 

[00:48:12] Mike: I think also the pro, the problem with, and I think t's example about the parents and the kids, I think, um, I wanted to say earlier is that a, a lot of times in this accountability situation when there's an argument between two people mm-hmm.

[00:48:25] There's my version of the truth. Your version of the truth. And then there's also actually the truth. 

[00:48:29] Eldar: Truth. That's right. 

[00:48:30] Mike: And both people could be wrong. Yes. The parent 

[00:48:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:33] Mike: Is, not, is but could be wrong a lot of the times, most likely. And what they're trying to do because they like no, like, you know, like our parents used to say to us, oh, you, uh, like you're not gonna have kids.

[00:48:46] So like girls, they say, you heard this thing before. Yeah, yeah. I've heard this before. Don't sit on the cold concrete. You know, you have kids or, uh, yeah. Don't go outside, don't go swimming after you just ate, like made up shit. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Stuff that they bought into. So a lot of times people superstitions.

[00:48:59] Yeah. Superstitions, they'll spill salt. Yeah. On the don't spill salt. Yeah. Like weird shit. Yeah. Uh, a lot of times people carry these truths, non-truths. Yeah. I just call 'em that and they defend them and then they try to put another people, and that's like a, that's like another thing about, I guess, um, what you were saying, where a lot of times the parent thinks they wanna hold the kid accountable for something they believe in, but they, what they believe in is actually not the truth about the matter.

[00:49:29] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Like, so yeah. So, so that, that, that definitely happens in that and like, yeah. You as a kid is just like un like you don't think for yourself yet. Like you have no idea what's going on, so you're only operating based on what you're being taught. 

[00:49:42] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:43] Toliy: Um, but, but I, but, but I think none. None, but none.

[00:49:47] Unless in those scenarios there's, um, like. The kids are making commitments, like, I'll be home by five. Okay. Yeah. It's agreed upon you're home at 6, 6 30. 

[00:49:58] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:59] Toliy: Right. [00:50:00] Like what happened there? And there's different, I think, ways to like react in those kinds of scenarios and like more impactful may maybe ways of teaching.

[00:50:09] Mm-hmm. From like, while, while I agree. Yeah. Like from some of the ignorances that like the parent could have to begin with. Yeah. But like, that's gonna be by default, like that, that to me is like hard, hard to fight because like, it's difficult to like not participate in any wrong understandings 

[00:50:27] Eldar: when, when teaching.

[00:50:30] Yeah.

[00:50:38] Like the whole accountability 

[00:50:40] Toliy: thing thing, to me, again, it just continues to, to come down to um, to ignorance. Like it's just ignorance. It's not having a clear understanding of what happened. Right. Like if things are clear crystal, crystal clear. I mean that's, 

[00:50:55] Eldar: sure you can say that. And o obviously it probably serves the, the simple route to like understanding, but there's a lot more to it, there's a lot more that actually going is going on if you really unpack it.

[00:51:09] Toliy: But, but what outside of ignorance is going on? 

[00:51:13] Eldar: Well, no, like what is the actual ignorance is what I'm saying. Like what's the makeup of it? Right. 

[00:51:19] Mike: What is the makeup of, well, I think, I think you, you said it, uh, ego and pride too. It could be ego, it be 

[00:51:24] Eldar: pride, it could be attachment, it could could be bad habits.

[00:51:26] It could be so many different things that are in there that is contributing to Yeah. The umbrella of ignorance. I agree. Everything's on the umbrella. The of ignorance. Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah. But I think to break it down to really understand why you are behaving the way you are, what are the reasons?

[00:51:41] Mm-hmm. You'll see that those habits were formed. From attachments, from fears, from trauma and all this other stuff. Yeah. Like you said, probably from childhood. Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:51] Toliy: Yeah, I agree. 

[00:51:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:53] Toliy: Yeah, so, so ignorance and change, which nonetheless, I think 

[00:51:55] Eldar: that requires what a level of awareness, raising this awareness and saying that like, okay, cool, like let's break this down because mm-hmm.

[00:52:03] If you are constant, if you're habitually late, you're gonna say, I'm gonna be here on time. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna be here at this time. I don't give a fuck if you are late somewhere else. Mm-hmm. It's affecting you, your problem. You can't get into your yoga studio because the door's locked, because you came late.

[00:52:19] I don't give a fuck. Mm-hmm. I'm not your fucking instructor and I'm not your fucking friend that's there waiting for you, for example. I don't care. 

[00:52:26] Yeah. 

[00:52:26] You know what I mean? But if you said something to me, you're saying, we're gonna be here at this place or whatever, and then you'll never show up or you are late or whatever, then it's affecting me.

[00:52:35] Yes. Then I should care. 

[00:52:36] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:37] Eldar: Yes. Right. Yeah. It's the. The affecting of the thing. Yeah. Like I said, I think that individuals have the right to do whatever the fuck they want. 

[00:52:47] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:48] Eldar: But as soon as they start affecting others in a negative way. Right. Then what, what is happening then? What are we talking about here?

[00:52:57] Right. We need to find the root of the cause of your fucking problem. Right. You have to raise awareness. Right. Because that individual maybe doesn't operate that way. You have to say, look, let's, you know, if this doesn't work, let's not, let's adjust. 

[00:53:11] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like it, it, it, it, like, it stems from I think the majority of the population, um, uh, having a feeling of powerlessness to the reality that, that they live in.

[00:53:24] Like, they don't feel like a, uh, like a participant. They, they feel like they're, um, a byproduct when, uh, really? Yeah. 

[00:53:33] Eldar: Oh, that's interesting. 

[00:53:34] Toliy: Yeah. Like they don't feel like they're behind the controller. They just feel like, almost like a AI is doing shit for them. Really? You, 

[00:53:40] Eldar: you feel that they have these feelings?

[00:53:41] Toliy: Well, yeah, I think so for sure, because like a fuck, like no. How many times do you hears crazy this happening to me? What? No, no, no, no. For 

[00:53:50] Eldar: example, no, no. Sure. I think that means that you're not, that's not particip. That's, 

[00:53:54] Mike: that's a moment to moment and not general feeling. Actually everyone, people walk around like they got the biggest dick in everything all the time.

[00:54:00] I think that everyone 

[00:54:01] Eldar: thinks that the world revolves around 

[00:54:02] Toliy: them. Yeah. Well, well, no. Like they, so yeah, but there's no like accountability. Like you don't need to take accountability when you're under the wrong impression. It's only when the right impression meets the wrong impression that accountability is required.

[00:54:16] Is required. Yeah. And when accountability and when that happens, that's when you hear those lines. How does this always happen to me? 

[00:54:23] Mike: Yeah. But how often does that happen 

[00:54:25] Toliy: though? All the time. 

[00:54:26] Mike: All the time. So all the time. 90% of your life you're living in, in those moments, or 90% you're living in other moments?

[00:54:32] Eldar: Well, I, I, I, I think thatOh people that, uh, that's, that's Joe's statement right there. 

[00:54:37] Mike: Well, I think that people who, who, no, he's asking you. Oh, me? Yeah. I'm asking you like you saying that people all the time in these moments. Yeah. So I'm trying to get an idea of what do you consider all the time? Because I think it's 90% of the time people are not living in this moment, you're saying, and maybe 10% of the time they're in this reflective state.

[00:54:55] I wish that they 10% Whatcha you talking about? About Well, I'm trying to be nice. 

[00:54:58] Toliy: No, wait, no, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait. You're asking me how long this happens to me or how to people? 

[00:55:04] Mike: Yeah. What do you think? Well, you're basically, how about 

[00:55:06] Toliy: both? Give us both. 

[00:55:06] Mike: Yeah. Give us both. 

[00:55:07] Toliy: Well, I, I, I, I, I think as like a whole, I completely agree, right?

[00:55:12] But to me it's like the on the meter only happens is when, when, like things hap happen that require this to happen. That to me is like. The hundred percent bar here because Yeah. I think overall, like, yeah, people think they're hot shit. They have no idea what's going on, but to me the the, the clock only starts when something happens.

[00:55:32] Eldar: No, no, no. You can't say the two people are hot shit and they don't know what's going on. No. People hot shit and don't know. They they think they know. They, yeah. 

[00:55:38] Toliy: They, they think that they know what's going on. Yeah. But in reality, I'm saying that they, they don't know what's going on. Well, yeah, 

[00:55:43] Eldar: but your, your testimony was the other way around.

[00:55:45] You're saying that people, they don't know what's on Yeah, but I'm saying I, in the reflective moments of one, less than 1%, I think mm-hmm. Is when they throw up their hands. Like, what the fuck? 

[00:55:55] Toliy: No. Yeah. The, the clock only starts, the clock on this to me, only starts when something happens. Oh, okay. 

[00:56:03] Eldar: Well, 

[00:56:04] sure.

[00:56:04] Toliy: Like I, I was at Whole Foods. I'm walking back to my car. Someone's going straight in the lane where you're like, in front of Whole Foods, you know? Mm-hmm. Like where you clearly can go, you have like, you have right away other than people crossing mm-hmm. Cars are right away. Mm-hmm. This lady in this old beat up car mm-hmm.

[00:56:20] Is from where you park in the spots, you know? Mm-hmm. So imagine that this car is going forward like this. Yeah. Yeah. And she's in the parking lot where, where the cars are parked. 

[00:56:28] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:56:28] Toliy: She, that person has right away, she's supposed to stop and wait. Right? Yeah. So then she can turn left, left or right. Yeah.

[00:56:34] Mm-hmm. She zooms through, she's zooming through. This guy almost hits her. Yeah. But she doesn't stop. And then she rolls down her window and tries mouthing off. Crazy. The fuck you doing? You dumb ass bitch. Like, yeah. Right. Um, you fucking idiot. Yeah. Like, the fuck is wrong with you? The fuck you like, yeah.

[00:56:52] Going crazy. Yeah. And then she yells, yells, yells, throws a fit. Like, then, like floors her car and makes a left and then just speeds away. Speeds away. Yeah. Like she is dead wrong in what happened? 

[00:57:02] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. But 

[00:57:03] Toliy: when this happened to her, and it was like almost a bad stage situation for her, there's no, like, she's not capable of, of like, she doesn't know what's going on.

[00:57:11] She like, she, she, well, she thinks what this person doing is wrong and she needs to, uh, explode on this person. Right? Mm-hmm. And just like mouth off on them. Yeah. She's dead wrong. Yeah. I saw it happen. It happened in front of me. Yeah. She's dead wrong. There's irrefutable evidence of this. Yeah. 

[00:57:26] Eldar: You know, listen, the testimony I want to tell the people, okay?

[00:57:29] Yes. Before the testimony does come from an individual who makes a left on red. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, listen, I'm gonna play, I'm gonna play along, I'm gonna play along with him. So I'm gonna play along. You're fine. I'm not, 

[00:57:40] Toliy: no, but, but, but, but I'm not saying I don't do it or that it, like, it's not wrong. You're fine.

[00:57:45] Then that'll be different. My, my, my point is this, that like the, the, the clock to me, like it doesn't count. When you, when like you're under the wrong impression and you're operating in that other place. To me, like everything starts when something happens. 

[00:57:59] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:00] Toliy: When you did something wrong, actually.

[00:58:03] Mm-hmm. Right. You don't know it. And now you need to, now you need someone to blame in those scenarios. Uh, to me there's an overwhelming amount that it, um, that like the, those kinds of stadiums are happening. Like, why does this happen to me? Yeah. Like, this fucked up. You know, like, yeah. But those moments are very rare to me.

[00:58:22] I, I, I think they're, they're very frequent on a bunch of different, different things. Mm. 

[00:58:27] Eldar: No, he's right. Mike. I think he's right. 

[00:58:29] Toliy: Like I think at work, at Work, I think they 

[00:58:30] Eldar: do happen. It's just, I'm not sure how much actual attention is being paid. That those moments, they do happen. Yes. And a lot of people brush them off, can't find 

[00:58:38] Toliy: parking.

[00:58:39] Yeah. The fuck is this line too big for Yeah. Yeah. Why they fucking raise the prices? Yeah. Because a lot of 

[00:58:44] Eldar: people complain about a lot of shit. Why is 

[00:58:46] Toliy: my boss giving me so much work? Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Why is this salary so low? Right? Like a, a bunch of things. Mm-hmm. Why is this line taking so long? You know, like mm-hmm.

[00:58:55] Like, there, there, there's like a million of these di different scenarios that these type of habitual people, like, for them it's just like, it's not even moments of reflection anymore. They, they just like, they need something to like, it's, it's like a conspiracy, like a thing, right? Well, no, no. You need, 

[00:59:11] Eldar: sure.

[00:59:11] But, but there's lot of, you need conspiracy 

[00:59:13] Toliy: theories, right? There is. 

[00:59:14] Eldar: There is. And I think the conspiracy theories are born from the fact that we need, why does my boss hate me? Like Yeah. Sometimes the thing is like they find the evidence that actually are, uh, you know, what's his name, support, what is it that they're observing or some of the things that they were maybe thinking about, you know what I mean?

[00:59:30] And that's. Sometimes perfectly fine as well. That happens. 

[00:59:34] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I just think that the overwhelming amount of people in these, all these scenarios, they assess blame on the, like in the reality that they understand, listen, what 

[00:59:43] Eldar: came to on the wrong things, what came to mind is when I, my DMV experience, right.

[00:59:46] Um, it's a ridiculous fucking place. You know this. Yeah. I know this, uh, probably most listeners that are listening to this know this. Yep. Right. And then when I was there going through my experience, I've, I've also observed that like, okay, I'm observing myself. I'm clearly irritated. Mm-hmm. Maybe on a very small scale, because I've seen how irritated some other people were, but you could clearly see that people are very irritated.

[01:00:10] Yeah. 

[01:00:11] You know, and as you observe the situation, you see that the DMV is, uh, let's say, setting appointments for these people. They're coming in on time for these appointments, and then they're being told, they're like, sorry, we're not gonna be able to help you out here today. Mm-hmm. Like, wait a second. Took off.

[01:00:27] Half of day of work. I didn't, I took off the whole day of work or whatever I came here. Mm-hmm. And what is happening, right? Yeah. And the DMV is like, sorry, can't help you by Right. Obviously the individuals are gonna be pissed. Mm-hmm. Like that's a justified feeling. 

[01:00:42] Yeah. 

[01:00:43] Right. Because DMV doesn't want to take accountability.

[01:00:46] Right. They don't want to. People start bugging out, security was cold. Mm-hmm. You know, and at the end, as you know, they, even the people that did get through and GA numbers though, that were sitting for two, three hours 

[01:00:58] Yeah. 

[01:00:58] Didn't get served. Yep. So like, what are they supposed to fucking feel? You know?

[01:01:04] Mm-hmm. The fact that DMV is not taking accountability and telling 'em to return, the guy's like, wait a second, I had an appointment. I came here, I'm sitting here for three hours. Yeah. You know, how can you tell me to come back tomorrow and not like, skip the line, I have to redo all this. He's like, yeah, you have to there.

[01:01:20] There's sometimes that, right. That's it. This is an establishment. 

[01:01:23] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:24] Eldar: Right. Which is in power. Yeah. Telling you to get, you need this driver's license bullshit. Right. Maybe for the good, 

[01:01:32] for the greater good or whatever, you know, but they don't have their shit together and they're 

[01:01:40] Mike: not taking 

[01:01:40] Eldar: accountability.

[01:01:41] Mike: But they wanna give accountability to other people, right? Correct. Give us your license. Yeah. Is it expired? Like all the shit, right? Yeah. Which is, 

[01:01:48] Eldar: which is a contradiction. That's why you get upset people rightfully so. You should have upset people. Right. It's not just even the people that were working there, I told you I was listening to the whispers.

[01:01:56] Mm-hmm. And they were saying like, it sucks, but like, I, I agree with 

[01:02:00] them. They agree with us, but their hands are tied. Yeah. So the shit, you know. Yeah. It's a lot of politics and bureaucracy. Bureaucracy, politics is all nonsense that is, um,

[01:02:17] involved here. But yeah. So what do you think, Mike? Are we onto something 

[01:02:21] here with this accountability stuff? Yeah. Yeah, I think it is. I, I mean, like, uh, I thought it was very important. What, what do you, what do you think about the fact, like my question about like, can we track down, um, the root cause of why we need to be held accountable for certain things in the first place?

[01:02:37] Yeah, I think 

[01:02:38] Mike: so. I think it, I was thinking about, I think accountability is

[01:02:46] Eldar: person, person never learned how to make, like when they made 

[01:02:52] Mike: mistakes mm-hmm. They never learned that it's okay to make mistakes. Okay. Because it was never explained to them. Mm-hmm. How to move past those mistakes. So instead of Okay. That they created a protection. Okay. Which is, I think rebuttals is big, especially with the current Yeah.

[01:03:11] Situation, uh, specimen that we have, you know? Yeah. Yeah. He is like, he's very good rebuttals, you know, but that's because he never learned to, um. Properly process the mistakes that he made in his life and never learned to take accountability because he just, yeah. He was never probably given a chance. He was just told like, shut the hell up.

[01:03:35] You're wrong. And he just said, okay. Yeah. You know, and then probably he started coming over these rebuttals too, 

[01:03:45] Eldar: to protect himself. To 

[01:03:46] Mike: protect himself. You know, 

[01:03:47] Eldar: what is he 

[01:03:47] Mike: protecting? 

[01:03:50] Eldar: What are 

[01:03:50] we protecting? Hmm. That's interesting. 

[01:03:54] Toliy: The, the acknowledgement of wrongdoing. 

[01:03:58] Eldar: Why 

[01:04:01] Toliy: when you have 

[01:04:01] Eldar: reputation from top uphold, there you go.

[01:04:05] You see that? 

[01:04:05] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:06] Eldar: We have, we have to, we have a reputation mm-hmm. To uphold. 

[01:04:09] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:10] Eldar: That means we have a reputation 

[01:04:11] Speaker 5: mm-hmm. 

[01:04:12] Eldar: That we are attached to because we like it. Mm-hmm. And we need to protect it. Mm-hmm. And uphold it, attachment. Yeah. Like, think about how, right? Why, why when did we start taking ourselves so fucking seriously that we have this reputation that we need to protect at all means lying, cheating, stealing, remodeling, what the, the fuck?

[01:04:38] I 

[01:04:39] Mike: think it probably stems from again, childhood. Mm-hmm. Uh, imagine, imagine like, uh, your parents at two years old. Like, yo, I want you to learn calculus, right? Mm-hmm. Not even explain it to you. Just learn it. Okay. You know? And I think a lot of times our parents might have given us things that we were maybe a not allowed to question 'cause like, yo don't talk back.

[01:05:01] You know? Mm-hmm. Like, like, uh, you know, don't talk back to your parents. Yeah. Don't talk back to your elders. Or, our parents didn't really have the time, the bandwidth, whatever you wanna call it. Whoever was raising us to really explain to us, well, why is this wrong? You know? Mm-hmm. And I think that also contributes to it.

[01:05:19] You know, because everybody's got like a short string, you know, parents tired, they're working jobs. That is interesting. They come home, they're exhausted. They don't wanna fucking have a fucking philosophy discussion with you. Yeah. About the importance of the nature of things. The nature of things of reality.

[01:05:33] Reality. 

[01:05:35] Toliy: Especially what's viewed upon as like the basic things that are extremely important. But I, but I think another huge, huge one that, like anyone that goes to any kind of schooling, the social pressures create this reputation as well. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. They do like, they do like the, like ev like peer 

[01:05:51] Eldar: pressure.

[01:05:52] Toliy: Oh, yeah. A lot of people know, I mean, uh, like how it feels like to get bullied. Made fun of. Yeah. What, like, you care, like you put a lot of weight your whole life, like going through like first grade, second grade, third. It's, there's, there's a, a competition as to who has what, choose who has what. All, all that starts at a very young age, especially now, right?

[01:06:11] With more access to more like kids, get iPads faster, start watching shit, social media, all that is huge. What, what's cool, what's not, it build like by the time you're already at like 18 plus, you got to like, as time goes, the bigger, the reputation already is built by then, right? Yeah. Where like, maybe back in the day with less, technology's harder to build as big of a reputation so fast.

[01:06:37] Now the reputation like has, has [01:06:40] like 10 x or a hundred x. Yeah. So by the time you're 18, you already have this giant reputation. You have a brand. How about that? Yeah. You have a brand. You have a brand as a whole. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's no longer a reputation, like today's kids have a brand. Yeah. Right?

[01:06:52] Yeah. Mm-hmm. So you're right, like the social pressures are huge in all this. Yeah. They're, they're, they're, they're very impactful and like, like especially someone like Har um, Harris who socially grew up, I think, in different environments and was treated particular ways and like, was. Yeah, ul, ul ultimately, like if, if we examine social pressures, right?

[01:07:17] Like those moments is like you, you don't have yet to understand what's going on and why it's going on. So social pre pressures are like operating in the not making sense world, right? But you're getting pressure from it and everybody's operating in this world, world that doesn't make sense this world.

[01:07:34] Like, 

[01:07:35] Eldar: which is a crazy phenomenon. 

[01:07:36] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:07:37] Eldar: Yeah. It is a crazy phenomenon. 

[01:07:39] Toliy: Yeah. And, and, and then now you build habits from a place that doesn't make sense to begin with. So how, so to then later in life face the truth and be able to start to like reverse all these things? It's very difficult. Like what, what, what kind of learning scenarios come?

[01:07:56] Like, like, uh, like people come up to you and say like, Hey, like, you know what? I'm pretty dumb. I don't know shit. Yeah. And like. Don't expect a laugh from of me. 

[01:08:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:08:07] Toliy: Right. Yeah. I really don't. EII, I really don't know, like left from, right. Yeah. But I, but I'm willing to learn. 

[01:08:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:08:15] Toliy: So all those years and years of social pressures and all those di di different moments, like they're very difficult to, uh, start to unpack and like to combat, combat and like, uh, remove all of these different things.

[01:08:29] But it, like, it, it's like I, I, I, I know I'm talking about it in like a very simple way, but it's difficult for me to move off the fact of like, you just have the wrong reality. And when you have the wrong reality, you're bound to not under not understand what's going on. But if we are both engaged in something, we have a clear, real, like, like, like you can fail at things.

[01:08:51] Like I, I, I, I have responsibility for certain things. I can fail at them. Right. And when a conversations be had, like, um, like. I would find it hard to find things that I'm not gonna be willing to take, take responsibility for. Right. Um, but it, like, it, it's difficult to do that if, if you don't have two people that like agree to certain things or like 

[01:09:17] Eldar: there's no like, uh, universal truth that you're measuring 

[01:09:20] Toliy: against.

[01:09:20] Yeah. Like if, if we're both tasked to place these five bricks into the, this bucket and we both know what the rules are, like what it is, if someone doesn't do them, like in that kind of scenario, you can't say shit. But then if one person's like, well, you didn't tell me it was gonna be so hot outside, you know?

[01:09:38] Yeah. Um, right. Like, like, or like, uh, like, I guess like, uh, I, I was, I, I mean, um, I mean like ultimately I was fine with it. It was great exercise, but I was a little bit complaining about the long walk that we were taking. Right. Was it like the burden on you to, to tell, to tell me about it? Or was it the burden on me to ask, Hey, what, what are we doing?

[01:10:00] Or is it like, yeah. The understanding that, hey, I might need to be flexible, or like, yeah, this might be a little more water. It might be this more water. Yeah. Like, yeah, like, yeah, like, you know, all, all those different types of, uh, scenarios. Scenarios, but, um, the culture you can to a, uh, to align your own worldview with the worldview, like of, of what's happening.

[01:10:26] Um, it'll be very easy to be accountable and responsible for things because like that person who does that, they, they've, they view everything as like, opportunities for progress versus, and learning versus per personal attacks. You know, and, and like oftentimes Harris is viewing all of these scenarios as like attacks.

[01:10:46] These are personal attacks. Yeah. And I need to defend myself. Not that these are opportunities for progress. Like if I'm failing at something like. I, I, I know for a fact that I have a lot of control and I have a lot of resources and like, especially if I come correctly, um, and, and like assets at my disposal, you know?

[01:11:08] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:11:08] Toliy: Um, so even if I do fail at something, like I know that I have the opportunity to like, learn from it and do better. So like, it, it, it can always be viewed as like a good thing no matter what. Right? But when, when, when you don't view failures as opportunities for learning or for progress, then you only view them as personal attacks on your system that you need to defend.

[01:11:32] Eldar: So then how long do you need to be challenged for in order for this shift to start happening? 

[01:11:37] Toliy: For as, as long as, uh, as, uh, for, for as long as it takes for you to recycle all your bullshit, well re well like recycle your bullshit and ultimately, like, however long it takes you to, to, to, to, to finally make the choice of as to whether you wanna learn or not to begin with.

[01:11:55] Is it just recognizing the patterns? Well, the thing is that like everyone thinks that they have a clever like mm-hmm. Little plan that they have. Yeah. Yes. Everyone thinks it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But, um, after some time, like, like your dog can only eat your homework so much. Right. Eventually just becomes like comical, right?

[01:12:15] Yeah. Or like yeah, you're liar. Funny. And when people make it into like a mockery, you can either get extremely angry Yeah. And get the fuck out. Yeah. Saying, yeah, it said I'm done. I 

[01:12:24] Eldar: had 

[01:12:24] Toliy: enough of this. Right. Or you need to, uh, yeah. Like maybe understand why it's happening or like face the music in the sense of like, like the question is like, yeah, do you wanna progress or not?

[01:12:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:12:38] Toliy: Like 

[01:12:38] Eldar: if, if you wanna progress, then all of these little things are great, they're great, like scenarios. 

[01:12:49] Toliy: But they require the understanding that there are opportunities for learning and not like viral attacks. Yeah. Well again, 

[01:12:55] Eldar: you are asking to redefine, right? Redefine pathways in your brain. Probably 'cause you've been etched in through bad habits for so long to redefine them and say good means bad and bad means good.

[01:13:08] Toliy: Yeah. But the reality is that everybody, once they do progress 

[01:13:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:13] Toliy: And they're looking at someone who is not there. Like it is so like, um, like silly to, to think about like, hey, like I could be upset about something that is reality. 

[01:13:26] Speaker 5: Yeah. 

[01:13:27] Eldar: Like

[01:13:31] what kind of feeling 

[01:13:32] Toliy: can you have about that? Like you can only view it as like such like an ignorant, silly thing to feel. Yeah. Is that like, hey, like this lady is gonna open her mouth and start cursing and yelling crazy when she's dead wrong. Right. And only after you've, if you've had the opportunity and you actually progress, you became like better and smarter and all, all that.

[01:13:55] Can you reflect upon that? And like, in the moment, like that's what's happening. The ignorant person is doing like the opposite of what's correct. Like they're wrong, but they think they're right. That, like, that, that's the definition of ignorance, right? Yeah. Like being under the wrong impression. It means that you are, are under an impression, but your reality is not.

[01:14:18] Reality is wrong. Yeah. And then you play 

[01:14:20] that out, you know? So like,

[01:14:27] and, and when you find out about it, it's, 

[01:14:29] yeah. It's like, it's comical. 

[01:14:30] Eldar: Like, so you know what? Now that you were saying all that and stuff, you know, and what we talked about we're such social creatures that like these moments, right? Uh, if we're so fucked up, right. Being a social creature and being around people, it's almost like a blessing.

[01:14:50] Oh yeah. Oh 

[01:14:52] yeah. You know, otherwise, oh, what the fuck? Imagine cooked up in your house, in your own delusions. 

[01:15:02] Toliy: Yeah, 

[01:15:03] yeah, yeah. If you do do that, then you, like, you sign yourself up from like, whatever, like guesses you took at some 

[01:15:12] point. Yeah. Like, 

[01:15:14] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:15:15] Toliy: You, you just operate from those. 

[01:15:19] Eldar: Wow. 

[01:15:21] Toliy: Yeah. Like, you, you, you develop an 

[01:15:23] extremely like, uh, like, like what I've been listening to all, all week is, uh, um, not being cognitively flexible.

[01:15:30] Being very narrow Yeah. Minded. 

[01:15:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:33] Toliy: You know, but being a social creature, um, and like q humans are social creatures, right? Yeah. Like, I. Allows you to bounce off these things. Yeah. Life is always like a, like a, like a, you're checking all these bal balances, you know, by a huge 

[01:15:53] Eldar: opportunity for those things 

[01:15:55] to be, to be checked.

[01:15:56] Yeah.

[01:16:00] All right. Well let's hear from one, 

[01:16:03] one of our friends from one of chime in about this balancing. What did he say? Let's see it 

[01:16:08] about this accountability thing.

[01:16:23] Alright, I lied. 

[01:16:25] I have to take accountability. 

[01:16:27] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:28] Eldar: I was under the impression that he's gonna pick up and tell us a little bit about the accountability part, but he didn't pick up. So I'm gonna take accountability. Take accountability and say that I was wrong. Yeah. All right. Well, Mike. What do you think?

[01:16:45] Did we nail it, this accountability situation? Should we strive to fucking, I mean, see things for what they are like Totally says and, and, and understand the truth of the matter about the situation, about ourselves and who we are and what the world is in order to prevent all this accountability. Bullshit.

[01:17:03] Mike: Of course. I mean, yeah. I think accountability, how do we do it is super important. How do we do it? How do we do it? Mm. 

[01:17:12] Eldar: Or do we just leverage society? Do we continue to be obnoxious and stupid and crazy in order for life to show us what it is? Right. Through pain. Yeah. Suffering and to, if you don't 

[01:17:22] Mike: want to educate yourself.

[01:17:24] Yeah. Then, you know, in the, in the, in the lab, then you go and you educate yourself in the real world, you know? 

[01:17:29] Eldar: Yeah. Balance is gonna be had whether you like it or not. 

[01:17:33] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. There's no, uh, I don't think there's another way to get around it. You know, you can go to school, you can learn. Then, you know, and you still have to go out into the field and try it.

[01:17:44] But I think learning about it, studying it and really like doing it that way helps for sure. 

[01:17:52] Eldar: You know, 

[01:17:54] Mike: ultimately it's education, right? Yeah. Education. Education about your, your perceptions about reality and by yourself about the world. Mm-hmm. You know, obviously the ones that are in real life, they, uh, sting a lot.

[01:18:09] Yeah. You know, but it's, I think it's part of the process. 

[01:18:14] Eldar: What would you advise to people that, uh, wanna learn how to learn how to be accountable because they're ridden with wrong things. 

[01:18:22] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:22] Eldar: Right. And incorrect perceptions. But 

[01:18:27] taking accountability but 

[01:18:30] not make it hurt so much. Not make it be a crazy ego blow or pride blow where it hurts so much that you have to constantly rebuttal or.

[01:18:39] Pro escape it or be elusive from it. But, but what can you do? 

[01:18:46] Toliy: But I also think that like, like, I'm not sure if it can be phrased like that kind of way. Like I, I, I don't know if, like, I know like, like you can truly want to be more accountable, but I think that you can want better outcomes and that maybe, maybe is easier to like, understand or like digest because to want to, if you have a desire for better outcomes, then you yet, like a requirement is to be accountable.

[01:19:11] But I don't know if like, the desire to be more accountable is, uh, sexy enough, I guess. Mm-hmm. Plus, I don't think 

[01:19:17] Eldar: you can lessen the blow of accountability either. 

[01:19:19] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Part of accountability is, is, is, is pain and, and it's realization of like a, let 

[01:19:26] Eldar: me ask you this question then. Yeah. Part of accountability is pain and I agree with that.

[01:19:31] Now, if accountability is had. Is the pain always equals to the lesson that is needed to learn based on how big your ego is. And that is a 

[01:19:44] natural or organic or

[01:19:51] innate amount of pain that is required in order to remove their ignorance. 

[01:19:58] Toliy: A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent be wow. Be 

[01:20:04] because like E, even now, tracking back to Uhhuh. Hold on a second. We 

[01:20:07] Eldar: get 

[01:20:07] Toliy: a 

[01:20:07] Eldar: call? 

[01:20:08] Joe: Yeah. Hello? Oh, now coming Sunday. Hello. Hey, 

[01:20:11] Eldar: Joe. 

[01:20:12] Joe: Hey. 

[01:20:13] Eldar: I wanted to chime in with you on this topic that we're discussing.

[01:20:17] Is this the 

[01:20:18] Mike: accountability 

[01:20:18] Eldar: police and Yeah. And considering that you are in the field of the force, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I think you would like this topic, we're talking about accountability. 

[01:20:27] Joe: Oh yeah. That's a big one. 

[01:20:28] Eldar: Yeah. Uh, I'm gonna let Mike and to, uh, brief you in real quick while I use the bathroom.

[01:20:33] Joe: Oh, cool. 

[01:20:33] Toliy: Mike. 

[01:20:34] Eldar: Mike, go 

[01:20:34] Mike: ahead. Toley. You're the expert, man. 

[01:20:37] Toliy: You, you brought up the topic. 

[01:20:38] Mike: Yeah. So, so what's up Joe? So, um, I was bringing up the topic with Elder. We're talking today and we're talking about the importance of accountability. You know, why is it so important? What, uh, what causes people to not, to be accountable and stuff like that.

[01:20:55] You know, why do people shy away from it? What, what gets in their way of taking accountability for, for their actions? And, uh, that, that was the topic. So I wanted to get your take on it. 

[01:21:12] Joe: Okay. Um. I've, um, experienced both type of people, people that, you know, own up to mistakes or learning a lesson and kind of, you know, doing the right thing afterwards or rectifying a situation, taking accountability for something.

[01:21:31] And then people on the opposite spectrum that never own up, nothing's ever their problem. Um, even when a million people say, you know, Hey, look in the mirror, it it is you. 

[01:21:44] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:45] Joe: So those people, yeah. Benny, yeah. They want some, my son's, um, pulling me away from talking in complete sentences, but 

[01:21:56] Speaker 5: mm-hmm. 

[01:21:56] Joe: Um, yeah.

[01:21:57] The other people that refuse to kind of accept reality, 

[01:22:05] Eldar: um, and I don't know why people like. 

[01:22:11] Joe: To stick in in, in that category. 'cause I feel like they live in, in like a, a sense of like purgatory. Like they're, they know their POS you know, I'm, I'm not saying the bad word because I want my son to hear it, but 

[01:22:26] Speaker 5: mm-hmm.

[01:22:27] Joe: You know, they living like that where you're like constantly, like either a manipulator or liar or just deceitful or just like, can't, can't really tell, tell something for what it's you, you quickly get called out by, um, the people around you and, um, they send, they tend to like, get pushed away and tend to like lose the ability to be in your circles 

[01:22:55] Speaker 5: mm-hmm.

[01:22:56] Joe: Of trust when a majority of this, like a group, let's say my setting of the firehouse 

[01:23:01] Speaker 5: mm-hmm. 

[01:23:02] Joe: We all have to kind of abide by this culture, uh, and line up with our values and kind of all be. Similar, on the same wavelength and like kind of be caught cut from the same cloth. And when you have an individual who doesn't line up with all that stuff, their value decreases [01:23:20] dramatically.

[01:23:21] And you, you know, you try to check them and if they don't make their adjustments or care to care to be the right, do the right thing, you know, they quickly get, you know, almost pushed out. It's just like, um, an injured bee and a beehive like that, thing's gonna get clipped. Mm-hmm. You're gonna just push it outta the beehive.

[01:23:41] Yeah. You, if any, wanna open it. So, like I said, um, those are my experiences. I've seen them both. And, um, um, I don't know, is that, has that been, gave you a little information, but 

[01:23:58] Mike: why do you think, why do you think people are doing that? Like, what's the natural or what's their reason for, for not wanting to take accountability?

[01:24:04] Because it doesn't sound like it's like a, a good thing, right? For. For people? Or is it, 

[01:24:10] Joe: I I think people are, uh, those people, yep. Any why you wanna clean your hand. I think those people are like scared to face like repercussion. They're scared to, or you know, like they didn't necessarily grow up, uh, in a sense where maybe, maybe started from a young age.

[01:24:30] Um, and they were always, here you go. They're always trying to avoid, like, getting in trouble or, or losing out on certain things. Uh, it was one of those things where you, they could figure out a way to skate and, and avoid consequences or, you know, you could only do it so much though, like you, you could dodge around, but eventually you can't, you, you won't survive in a long term period.

[01:24:57] An environment where that get exposed. But if you're, if you're kind of in and out and you're, you know, you're kind of meeting new people and don't, don't really necessarily have a, a long time for people to, to figure you out, you could fake it, uh, and put on like a, a facade. 

[01:25:17] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:17] Joe: And get, and get by. Um, but why these people choose to do it is, uh, it's easier to, it's easier to, um, yes.

[01:25:30] Benny, sorry, my son's pulling me, but do you think that it's 

[01:25:33] Toliy: a, like, like, like the accountability of like a choice? 

[01:25:38] Joe: What was that? 

[01:25:39] Toliy: Do you, do you think that accountability is a choice? 

[01:25:43] Joe: A hundred percent Accountability is how can it be? 

[01:25:46] Toliy: How, how, how can it be a choice? Right? Because like, it's like, um. If you're an ignorant person, right?

[01:25:54] An ignorant person like you, you don't expect an ignorant person or someone that like, doesn't know what's going on to be accountable, right? Or you can or you, uh, reverse it, right? Someone who does know what's going on, you could probably expect them to be, uh, accountable. So I almost feel that like e expecting some, someone that does that doesn't know what's going on to be accountable is like, is that, is that always the case?

[01:26:20] I 

[01:26:20] Joe: don't, I don't believe that because I, same reason why I don't believe no one unknowingly does wrong bullshit. That, that always here come out you guys' mouth. I don't know who believe that one, one, but like, I dunno how many of you're on board with that one. But I was never on board with it. I don't agree with it.

[01:26:37] And, um, you know, I think it's like a, a cop out and like a, an excuse to like, just claim ignorance and like, oh, I didn't know any better, but. You know, the, uh, like a, a quick example of like, when I was young, I know I did something wrong. I wasn't, I was, uh, playing football outside and I threw the football and broke this guy's taillight through his car.

[01:27:05] And this guy was like a mean neighbor in the, in the air we used to play. He always was yelling at us and like, you know, I was just waiting for the opportunity to rip into us. And he is like, they heard the, the, the car light, light break. They came out who did this? And like, you know, my heart sunk and I'm like, fuck, I nor in trouble.

[01:27:26] And I'm like, I just like, I just raised my hand. I'm like, it was me. Sorry. And like his tune changed like immediately from angry to like it was you. And I'm like, yeah, I'm sorry. He is just like, okay, well, he's like, well, thank you for owning up to it and telling me the truth. He goes, but we're gonna have to work something out here.

[01:27:47] So I'm gonna have to tell your father and we're gonna have to work something out here. I'm like, okay, yeah, no problem. And I went home and I told my father, I'm like, Hey, I broke this guy's taillight. Um, and he's, he wants to talk to you. So my father came over, he's like, yeah, I, I can get you a taillight. Um, you know, I work with a bunch of mechanics.

[01:28:08] He's like, let's, you know, I'll get you the light and I'll install it for you. And everyone's like, shakes hands. And everyone was happy about it. And no one was mad at me because they just, you know, they, they had a solution to the problem. They took care of it. And because I came out at it with truth and I just, you know, knew that like, you know, this is gonna be the fastest way to, you know, rather than lying and covering it up.

[01:28:34] I think it just like opened up my eyes to the experience of like. The truth, doing the right thing, accountability, integrity, all that type of stuff. Yeah. But if 

[01:28:43] Toliy: you, if like, if, if, if you felt the need to lie, for example, and to cover it up and do that, you would've had reasons as to why you needed to do that.

[01:28:52] Right. 

[01:28:53] Joe: Well, before that, I could count countless amounts of times where I would lie or cover it up. But you had a maybe was like a Yeah, because it was repercussions, you know? Yes, right. You were in trouble, you get hurt. Yeah. 

[01:29:06] Toliy: Yeah. Exactly. Like you, you don't want to get yelled at, you don't wanna get in trouble, you don't wanna get hit, whatever it was.

[01:29:11] Mm-hmm. Right. You don't want other people to find out, you don't want other people to feel a particular way. Like those were, would've been your re reasons for, for doing that. 

[01:29:22] Joe: Yeah. Yeah. So like, you're kind of knowingly making that choice. So that's what I'm trying to say is you're not really, you're not really not doing it because you don't realize, you just, you, you know.

[01:29:35] You know, it's like, it's either you, you, you're avoiding telling the truth unless there's, there's like no denying it at some at one point. Like, you know, you, you're guilty and everyone knows it. Um, but even, even, even to that degree, some people will deny it, even when it's like evidence, video evidence, you know, it's like people are, um, uh, I forget the term, um, but they will lie even when it's like obvious they just can't, like, I'm like a narciss or something like that.

[01:30:05] I dunno if that's the right term. But, um, so it's, you think, you think, you think 

[01:30:12] Eldar: a person, a person that, um, that was taught properly. Knows, who knows what the right thing to do is. For example, maybe in your case, your mom or your dad told you like, Hey, Joe, if you ever did something wrong, own up to it. You know, we are not gonna get in trouble.

[01:30:27] We're not gonna beat you up, we're not gonna scold you, we're not gonna punish you. Right. We'll handle it properly. You know, in the case of like, if you throw a baseball down, someone's on someone's car or football in someone's car, like, it's okay. It's perfectly fine, right? Mm-hmm. If you knew right, uh, that there, there, the repercussions are gonna be proper because it's not like you were maliciously thrown a baseball into somebody's car on purpose, right?

[01:30:51] Mm-hmm. If you did it by accident, then you know that the repercussions are gonna be, you know, you'll deal with it properly as long as you tell the truth that you more, most likely will tell the truth. 

[01:31:00] Joe: Yeah. I think that's that's true. I think that's true because it's almost similar to like parents saying, if you have a drink or you know, you're gonna get drunk, you know, you call me anytime of the night, I'll come pick you up.

[01:31:13] Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna be angry at you. I just want you to be safe, you know? You're giving the kid the, the okay in advance. So like knowingly it's gonna be a, you know, a thing you shouldn't have done, but you're giving them the approval, almost like forgiveness beforehand to just know that they're rather you tell the truth and, and be safe, um, than to try to drive home himself or lie about it.

[01:31:39] And, you know, like, so it's so sort of a similar scenario. 

[01:31:43] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Okay. And the person that, and the person that would lie would probably imagine that there was punishment behind, uh, yeah. Uh, admitting, admitting the truth. Yeah. All right. So no one knowing who does the wrong thing, right? What, so no one knowing who does the wrong thing?

[01:32:01] Joe: No, because those people that are, that are like denying or hiding it. They're doing the wrong thing and they know it. 

[01:32:10] Eldar: You sure that they actually know it? That it's the wrong thing? Or are they just, what is, yeah. What's considered, well, why would they 

[01:32:15] Joe: be covering it up then? What are they afraid of? 

[01:32:17] Eldar: Well, what do you think?

[01:32:18] Are they afraid of? 

[01:32:19] Joe: They're afraid of the consequence. 

[01:32:21] Eldar: Well, yeah. So therefore, they're doing what? 

[01:32:25] Joe: They're doing the wrong thing. 

[01:32:26] Eldar: They're protecting themselves thing. Huh? They're protecting themselves. No, they're doing the right thing. Yeah, they're doing the right thing. Right. 

[01:32:33] Joe: Oh, well, I mean, you could say that, but I say, well, what do mean?

[01:32:35] You could say that. No, I don't wanna, I don't wanna just say that. I wanna, I wanna know what's actually going on down. 

[01:32:40] Eldar: No, I actually wanna know what's going on. China, 

[01:32:41] Joe: the sky is down and the, and the, and the floor is up. It's like, 

[01:32:45] Eldar: yeah, 

[01:32:46] Joe: well, well, what's going on? Is it, I mean, look, you, you could play, you could play around with the wordage, but 

[01:32:52] Mike: No, but I have a, I have a question.

[01:32:55] What does it mean to know something?

[01:32:59] Joe: To know something? Yeah. Come 

[01:33:01] Speaker 5: on. 

[01:33:03] Joe: They're informed, um, you know, you've been kind of briefed or you've been educated on something or you experienced something. It's almost like there's, there's like innate things that you don't have to be taught that it's natural, like fight or flight. 

[01:33:19] Mike: Do you feel like it's like, uh, that you convinced about what the truth is?

[01:33:24] Like when you know something like there's no discussion or debate or like, uh, this is a fact? For sure. 

[01:33:30] Joe: If that's the truth and, and, and they believe it to be the truth, then yeah. But if it's something that like is undetermined or, you know, not necessarily like, so let's say 

[01:33:42] Mike: you have a decision to go left or right and you don't know where to go, do you know, like if you're still debating which way, what's the right choice, right?

[01:33:53] If you're not convinced, right, you don't know, you're not convinced of the right thing. Do you actually know. 

[01:33:59] Joe: No, 

[01:33:59] Mike: you don't. 

[01:34:00] Joe: No. If you, you don't. 

[01:34:01] Mike: You don't. And I think a lot of times that's the state that people are in. Like they don't actually know

[01:34:10] they're on the fence. What's the best thing to do? Or how's this gonna work out? 

[01:34:14] Eldar: I think, yeah, I think that like, like you're trying to explain that the knowing part, right? Where like if you know something, you a hundred percent sure of it, right? Yeah. Kind of thing, right? But if you're not sure of it, then it's kinda like a toss up, right?

[01:34:26] You don't know. You don't know. Yeah. You know, uh, I think that the individuals who are, you know, like in Joe's case are lying, quote unquote. Mm-hmm. Right. In order to preserve themselves, uh, they're well aware that, you know, what they're doing is to try to preserve themselves. 

[01:34:40] Yeah. 

[01:34:41] And they know exactly that.

[01:34:42] Like, look, if I say this, I'm not gonna get this pain. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, I'm not sure if Joe, in, in his example, would've lied if he knew that his dad was gonna give him more punishment. Right. Than the guy that was give, trying to give him punishment outside. 

[01:34:58] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:59] Eldar: You know what I mean?

[01:34:59] I'm not sure he was gonna do the right, you know, the right thing. Well, he 

[01:35:02] Joe: didn't tell. Yeah. He didn't tell me like, if this ever happened. He tell you. They just, 

[01:35:06] Eldar: well, no, I'm, I'm not sure if every parent can, uh. Can, uh, what's his name, predict every scenario that might happen outside, but then we have, we have good imaginations 

[01:35:14] Mike: to expect Yeah.

[01:35:15] How our parents might react. Yes. And that too. Yeah. And that too, and that's also a big factor 

[01:35:20] Eldar: in the knowing and not knowing. Correct. Correct. If you, if you, if you grew up with loving parents who teach from, um, you know, understanding and compassion, empathy and, you know, explaining things, you know, and really give that patience to you, right?

[01:35:34] Then you kind of know and can gauge like, okay, cool, like even if I did the wrong thing, I know that my parents will have my back. You know what I mean? And therefore you could come across a little bit more truthful when shit like this happens. You know what I mean? Uh, but the truth of the matter is that's not always the case, you know?

[01:35:50] Yep. 

[01:35:51] And, uh, our innate ability to avoid pain and go for the fight or flight mode, you know, to, to preserve our own selves is very, is right there. Yep. And therefore, we will do whatever it takes in order to preserve ourselves. And that's why Socrates believable. Believe. All right, Joel, well thank you for the input on the accountability.

[01:36:11] Why don't you get to it if there's more stuff we're gonna hit you up. 

[01:36:15] Joe: Yeah, sorry. I was, it's all good. I was not, not being able to put my, my full thought, attention to it, but 

[01:36:22] Eldar: No, it's okay. Joe, thank you for taking, uh, accountability. Yeah, thank you for taking accountability for that. Yeah, no problem. I like that.

[01:36:31] Alright Joe, have a good one. Say bye. Say hi. Alright, bye Joe. Yeah, that's a different conversation about that is, 

[01:36:38] Mike: yeah, yeah. Um, what's his, and I think, but it is say accountability because if you don't know what you're doing right or wrong, you're not gonna be accountable. Well, yeah. You know, especially like Well, yeah.

[01:36:49] Again, like I think an argument, a lot of, a lot of arguments where they ha where people have, both people are convinced that they know that they're right. Correct. And there's always that time gap of like. Well, I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna stand on my shit. You stand your shit fuck off. Yeah. Or somebody's gonna apologize first.

[01:37:07] Somebody's gonna take accountability. Yeah. Somebody's gonna be like, yo, I'm not happy how it ended. Let's reconcile. Like whatever. Right. Yeah. There's different kind of things that could come out of it. And even if an apology 

[01:37:16] Eldar: does happen, doesn't necessarily mean that, uh, that the other side that is being apologized to is.

[01:37:22] Right. 

[01:37:23] Mike: Yeah. That's for sure too. 

[01:37:24] Eldar: A lot of times I'm watching these reality shows, you know? Yeah. And people apologize for things that they were not wrong about at all. Correct. Yeah. Just because somebody was able to shed a tear in that moment and show emotion. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. You clearly see like, oh, shit.

[01:37:35] Like, that's like a 

[01:37:36] Toliy: crazy ne 

[01:37:36] Eldar: next 

[01:37:37] Toliy: level variable. Holy fuck. That's a, it's a 

[01:37:39] Eldar: crazy thing. Yeah. You know, and you could see that they're so far away from the truth mm-hmm. That they got the whole thing twisted. Yeah. And they're living out a reality that is so far from reality mm-hmm. That they're, it's gonna take them, it's probably something special in order for them, for them to get it right.

[01:37:57] Toliy: Yeah, I think life, life will be better for every single individual. The sooner that they, that, that, um, like they have a desire to, to, um, align reality with like a, a align the objective reality with their own reality. Mm-hmm. You know, like that, that, that should be like, but it's very hard, but it's very hard to do.

[01:38:20] Right? Like, it's like, oh, for sure. A 

[01:38:22] Eldar: lot of times when do we, when do we actually get to that point? Right? Yeah. It's usually the rock bottom point, right? It's like, yo, I'll try to, everything. Everything's fucked up. I'm by rock bottom. I need help. Let's redefine everything that we've fucking, what I've been perceiving.

[01:38:34] Mm-hmm. Like, who says that? Let's 

[01:38:36] Toliy: redefine. But there's literally nothing more important. Like, you cannot, I agree with you. You cannot tell me one thing that's more important Yes. In life than this. Than than this. I agree 

[01:38:45] Eldar: with you Totally. Because it's everything. But the truth of the matter is, yeah. Right.

[01:38:48] Like you said, like Joe said, right. And we confirmed that. Growing up, raising kids, and the way we were raised was already installed all this nonsense. Mm-hmm. From our parents. Yeah. From tv, from our teachers, from our peers. Mm-hmm. That then we're in these weeds and that we have to play these weeds out in reality and see what brings pain and what doesn't.

[01:39:12] And we've come to find out that, oh, that advice that your mom and dad gave you, what the fuck? That's incorrect. Yeah. That advice your teachers gave you. Oh, that, that thing that we used to rave about with the peers, they were all completely off. What the fuck? That doesn't serve me, that hurts me. Some people grow out of it, some people don't.

[01:39:34] Mm-hmm. Some people die by it. Yeah. Some people completely evolve. Mm-hmm. You know, so it's easy to say. Totally. Huh. You know, just rely on yourself with the reality of reality, and then you'll be in peace, you know? But the truth of the matter is. You're not gonna be in peace for a very long time. 

[01:39:55] Toliy: Yeah. That, that's why again, you are on the back foot, well, like 

[01:39:59] every [01:40:00] single like, um, like state, like country government, right?

[01:40:06] Like, because people don't have the ability to govern themselves correctly. You need to create laws for people, right? Like, you need to say how fast you can go on the highway, because if you, if you, if you think that there's gonna be, be like nut jobs are gonna go like 150 miles an hour or like, cause chaos or do crazy shit.

[01:40:25] Mm-hmm. Like when you get pulled over, you're being held accountable. Accountable, yeah. Right? Begin that ticket. Yep. That's your thing. Okay. You got it. This was the punishment. You do it again. Right. Or like, you, you didn't take accountability and like learn from your actions and change. Well, the punishment's severe and then it gets worse and worse.

[01:40:45] And eventually they're gonna be like, Hey, since you're so bad at this accountability game, we're gonna have to throw you in a cage. 

[01:40:52] Yeah. Hmm. And you're just gonna sit in there because you a lengthy 

[01:40:55] period of time for a lengthy period of time. Yeah. Because you're prove, you're proving that you cannot learn.

[01:41:01] Mm-hmm. Right? Like that, that's what, like prison is a result of the inability to like learn or like understand what you cannot write part of society. Yeah. You can't be part of this because you're too mad, man. Yeah. You're too much of a danger. And depending on what crime you commit will depend on, on, on maybe like how long you're in there or like what, what happens.

[01:41:21] Right. But, um, yeah, like every, every, like, there has to be accountability. Otherwise there'll be no like law and order and no, like, like you're not gonna have a safe place to like live. Right. Like, you, like pe like you can Sure, you can break into anyone's house if, if you have the means for example. Right.

[01:41:40] And you know how and all that. But there's gonna be, if you get caught, there's, there's consequences. Consequences. Yeah. Yeah. There's consequences. So, um, like. Sure. You might want their, uh, wallet in there and their like watch or something, right. With yeah. Their money. But like, you have to weigh whether you're willing to risk all that or whether it's the right thing to like, you know, all, all, all those kinds of things.

[01:42:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:03] Toliy: You know, so if, yeah. If you can't govern yourself, that, that's what we say. Like, if you don't wanna learn, the world's gonna help you learn because Yeah. Society will, society's reality is gonna crash with your misunder, your, your misunderstanding, the world, your misunderstanding of, of, of what's going on.

[01:42:21] And you are going to feel pain whether you want to learn or not. So like, if you believe that, then why would you not wanna learn? 

[01:42:29] Eldar: Yeah. That's a very good question. 

[01:42:31] Toliy: If you be, if you can believe that, then why would you not wanna learn? Because like, you're gonna suffer. That's not enough, you know? 

[01:42:38] Mike: It's not scary enough.

[01:42:39] No, it's 

[01:42:39] Toliy: not. 

[01:42:40] Mike: No. But also with the requirements. I get it. I know what you're totally saying. Yeah. But the requirement to actually believe something is very deeply rooted in education. Yeah. Yeah. And knowledge. Yeah. 

[01:42:50] Toliy: Yeah. No, no, for sure. It's a hard a, it's not easy. It's a hard ask. Yeah. Yeah. That, that's also why, like, when you're not empowered, for example, and when you don't have an understanding about like the power that you possess, all these things that happen to you, you need to constantly throw blame on, on others or other entities or like companies or just like, like societal things or Yeah.

[01:43:14] Conspiracies, bad luck. Yeah. Right. Like all these different things. Yeah. I did everything right. That, but the, the world did this to me. What? 

[01:43:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:43:25] Toliy: You know, like what? Yeah. You know, now, like you can do everything right. Unless you in 

[01:43:32] Eldar: dmv what, unless you in dmv. Sure. 

[01:43:35] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:43:35] Eldar: Well, come on. 

[01:43:36] Toliy: But, but even what if, if if you go to the DMV?

[01:43:38] Eldar: Well yeah. When they set, you set you an appointment and Oh, you weren't here, you want, you stepped out. I was telling Mike I was in DMV and they was setting the appointments. Yeah. People come to the appointment with their tickets Yeah. On time. And they told them, Hey, sorry, we, we can't handle it. 

[01:43:51] Toliy: Yeah. No, no.

[01:43:52] For sure. But if once you experience this, yeah. Right. Yeah. You, and you have to go to d if you have to go to DM V again. Mm-hmm. Or like when you do. Right. Yeah. Well now, you know. Right. Sure. But you can't be surprised if they tell you like, they're like, I know. Made day of work and you know. Oh, for sure. But now you know what you tell engaged to Yeah.

[01:44:11] If you're a smart individual. Yeah. If you're an idiot, then you're gonna have a terrible reaction every single time. Yeah. Right. But like, there, there, but, but yeah, I think that like your ability, like part of the ability to learn and to navigate all this is also being able to be good at like, um, accounting for things.

[01:44:33] Fine. Right, fine. Like you can follow a recipe Yeah. To the T one to one, but if you had a bad product, for example, to begin with 

[01:44:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:44:42] Toliy: Or something like that. Like, or like some something else that you didn't like account for Right. Then. Like you could still fail on it, but like, um, you leave the, a little bit of a variable.

[01:44:53] Yeah. Like you of an error, you leave, you, you, you leave. Yeah. Like you can, like, it's, it's extremely important to me how you react to, um, if you wanna call it to your failures. 

[01:45:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:45:06] Toliy: It's extremely important because, um, you, you don't know it in that moment, but based on how you react to that failure, like, um, it could put you on like a real, like deep hole plan that you're gonna be on now for, for a while.

[01:45:22] Yeah. Based on how you dealt with that like scenario or based on like. You perceived as what happened? 

[01:45:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:45:28] Toliy: Because now like it's ingrained in you to think and act a particular way and it's very hard to like unteach yourself all that. 

[01:45:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:45:38] Toliy: So like all those di like how you react to those kinds of scenarios is really, really important.

[01:45:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:45:44] Toliy: Because like that will create like your narrow-mindedness. Or, or, or, or, or your broader like ability to like see things and understand things. 

[01:45:54] Eldar: Yeah. Whichever way that you, you go. I agree. Alright, Mike. Totally. What are your final thoughts on this accountability stuff? Should we strive to try 

[01:46:10] to not having to be accountable or should we just kind of let it rock and, you know, be part of society and allow society to teach us and provide us with the pain that is necessary to change our minds?

[01:46:21] Mm-hmm. And our attitudes and our perceptions about the world. 

[01:46:25] Toliy: Well, I think that we should operate in like our firsthand accountability where like we, we, like, we, we can just govern ourselves and hold ourselves accountable and just participate in the world and with other, like beings in that kind of way.

[01:46:42] And, um, it like not have to have the, not, not have to be put in situations where you can't do to do that. So now you need to be like apologizing and picking up pieces 

[01:46:55] Speaker 5: mm-hmm. 

[01:46:55] Toliy: From there. And then being held accountable that way because that, that second accountability is always like, um, like, it, like, like it hurts more obviously than like the first one 100%.

[01:47:08] You know? So if you could hold yourself accountable to begin with Yeah. If you can govern yourself to begin with, then you're not gonna have to like, let others govern you and you're not gonna have to feel bad about the way that you, like 

[01:47:20] Mike: come across. Yeah. Do you have to be, uh, qualified 

[01:47:22] Eldar: to govern yourself?

[01:47:24] To be accountable.

[01:47:28] In what sense? Like, well, could you be wrong about the 

[01:47:31] Mike: situation when you have a situation with yourself and you start saying like, oh, well I did this wrong, or This is wrong, or this is why this happened. But could you be wrong under the wrong impression about what actually happened? Well, you could be, you could definitely 

[01:47:44] Toliy: be under the wrong question.

[01:47:44] Yeah. Why not? That's, 

[01:47:45] Mike: that's why I asked that, because I think sometimes 

[01:47:48] Toliy: yeah, 

[01:47:48] Mike: we place the blame, you know, even when we have our own battles within, we place the blame on the wrong thing. 

[01:47:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:47:54] Mike: But sooner or later it's gonna come out. 

[01:47:55] Eldar: Yeah, sure. I think that sooner or later, that's a very good one too. The, the topic about when do they come out, right?

[01:48:01] How long can you be under that impression, under the wrong impression within yourself. Mm-hmm. Sooner or later you're gonna want practice that which you were under impression of, right? Mm-hmm. Into the world, probably most likely. Like you're gonna touch someone and then they're gonna say, wait, what? What is this?

[01:48:16] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:48:16] Eldar: And then you're gonna have to explain yourself. And if you can't explain yourself, if you can't properly, if you under the wrong impression, then you're gonna get bit. 

[01:48:24] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like part of, um, being someone who, who governs themselves and like, has like accountability, like even, even if you, like, just the basis of you having accountability on things, I think will naturally like auto GPS you to the right way.

[01:48:40] Um,

[01:48:44] because like, it, it, it doesn't make sense to me that somebody that's like an accountable person to it, like, not have a very much easier way path to finding to like what, like what's true and what's not. 

[01:49:00] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:49:01] Toliy: Um, and like, that's what I mean by like someone who gov like ev everyone governs themselves in like whatever way that they know.

[01:49:10] Mm-hmm. And they could definitely be under the wrong impression. Mm-hmm. But like, if you're, like, if you're taking responsibility for something and maybe like you were a little bit off about it or like. Maybe you're taking too much responsibility for something that like someone else was actually messed up on.

[01:49:25] Mm-hmm. I think eventually with enough times of having still that it, it's, it's still a better default reaction to be accountable because you will find you're awake faster to the truth than the person who's not. 

[01:49:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:49:37] Mike: But does that, I think I was thinking is it that for like, if you're wrong about how you are accountable with yourself, does it require that eventually another person, another interaction, will have to bring that outta you?

[01:49:49] Yeah. On, on another like interaction or person? Yeah. Like, you can't, you can govern yourself and if you're wrong about what you governed yourself with or the whatever you're on, or you, you didn't extract the right, uh, information from whatever situation, eventually somebody else will have to. Not that they'll have to, but it's gonna come out.

[01:50:10] They'll challenge it. Yes. Or they're gonna verify it. Yeah. Yeah. They either prove you right or they're gonna prove you wrong. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So you percent, you have to do both. And I think the one, if it's wrong, it will lead to the second one where you have to go Yeah. And get proven outside Yeah.

[01:50:26] Of yourself. Yeah. 

[01:50:27] Toliy: But, but, but, but also like the person who does have a desire to be like accountable and is like accountable. Mm-hmm. I, I just think that they like, like they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll have a more natural path to, to finding out the, uh, truth. 

[01:50:43] Mike: Well, yeah, I think so. They'll try to, because I think if you're intent go in hand.

[01:50:47] Yeah. 

[01:50:47] Eldar: Listen, if you go in with an intention that, look, I, I know that I, I gotta be accountable for certain things. I know I can be wrong and all this other stuff. Yeah. I think that's the right attitude to go into these types of things. Anyway, that goes 

[01:50:56] Toliy: hand in hand in hand with seeking truth and like, and humility.

[01:50:59] Right? Yeah. And I think 

[01:51:00] Eldar: humility will bring you to that path. I agree naturally. Mm-hmm. If you have that attitude. Yeah. I think we're, we're discussing of how to get there, you know? Yeah. To even have that attitude in the first place, right? Mm-hmm. So, um, all right. Anything else? What about your final thoughts?

[01:51:16] Oh, you did 'em, accountability. Yeah. Like I said, my, my thing was that my quarrel was Sure. It, it is good to be accountable, right? It's, it's a, it's a fucking popular little saying. Mm-hmm. You have to learn how to be accountable for your fucking actions, you know, if you are wrong or whatever, you know, yada, yada, yada, yada.

[01:51:34] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:37] Eldar: I guess I want to go to maybe a little bit more of an advanced level, like. Get to the point of not needing to be accountable in the first place. Right. Not needing to be, uh, put under the fire where like you have to defend your ego. Yeah. You have to defend your pride. Realize that it's actually your ego and pride are talking.

[01:51:56] Apologize for your ego and pride. Right. Get into the uncomfortable that needing to know that you need to remove that stuff. You know, like the fuck. Mm-hmm. 

[01:52:06] Toliy: No, but it's like that, that, that hurts, that part is like the, the justice part. Know I agree. Like that's a justice part of like accountability. They go hand in hand.

[01:52:15] I agree. That is why that feeling is, is super necessary. I agree for that person. I, I agree. 

[01:52:19] Eldar: That is a super necessary but also agree with what you said earlier, right. Is that you need to try to account for the fact that like if you committed to something, leave a little bit variable of error mm-hmm. For yourself.

[01:52:33] Speaker 5: Yeah. 

[01:52:33] Eldar: And say, look, I'm committing. To making breakfast. Mm-hmm. Not if you're an arrogant piece of shit. Exactly. Right. And this is what I'm 

[01:52:40] Toliy: asking, then you need to be the one who, if you're gonna be an arrogant, is what I saying, piece of shit, I'm, 

[01:52:43] Eldar: then you need to be the one that's gonna, so the next level is to how to not be arrogant piece of shit, but have more humility.

[01:52:49] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:52:49] Eldar: Right? How do you make sure that I say, Hey, I'm gonna be responsible for the breakfast for next week. However, guys, if I get sick, I'm not gonna be held accountable 

[01:53:00] Toliy: for it because I'm sick. Yeah. See, like what, what, what what you're saying is literally what I've been like, um, like, like to me, like the answer of how to do that is what I've been like, um, learning all week and listening to all week.

[01:53:13] It's the, the concept of, uh, cognitive flexibility. Well, yeah, like that, that's exactly what, what it is. And like Soc Socrates, um, um, was teaching somebody, um, some, somebody who, um, like who, who, who had um, conclusions. Yeah. About life, about that and conclusions. He, he, uh, he, uh, pointed out was narrow minded thinking, you're not, your mind's not flexible.

[01:53:41] And if you think this way, you will, you will develop like a, your, your, your mind will be like, like your cognitive abilities will be very rigid. Like you're very strict as to how, like, how you feel and like, that's it. Like you only believe this and there's no close-mindedness. Yeah. There's no open-mindedness.

[01:53:57] Yeah. So the cognitive, flex, flexible person, right. Who's talking to like a rigid person who says, like, again, like all those examples, like they might say like, Hey, um, he, he, he was giving example of like, uh, being healthy is without a doubt a good thing. Being like the healthiest or like the absolute, like mo most less healthy is an absolute, is an absolute truth.

[01:54:20] Mm-hmm. And Socrates would, would challenge that person and he would say, um, well, like, like he, he, his method was, was to do like. Was to like, have that person give his reasons as to why it's an absolute truth, right? Mm-hmm. Or it's absolutely good like that, right? And then he would, after, after they gave him maybe, you know, 2, 3, 4, 5 reasons, he would ask them like, um, well, are there any scenarios where this could be a bad thing?

[01:54:48] Mm-hmm. And the person would say, uh, no. Right? Yeah. And once they say no, she'll bring examples. Now he brings examples. He's already loaded with examples. Mm-hmm. And he gave the example of like, well, you said being healthy, that like the healthiest and in like the best shape is, is an absolute truth. He's like, well, uh, there was actually an example in Athens where, um, they had to like, get people for the army and they only took the healthiest.

[01:55:14] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:55:16] Toliy: And then those people died right away because like the, the cause they were fighting for was like stupid and they were outnumbered to begin with. So if, like, if you weren't so, made a mistake. Yeah. If you weren't as healthy. You wouldn't have been chosen then to fight in the war, for example. Mm-hmm.

[01:55:28] That was like a war that you didn't even believe in and that like was destined to fail. Fail. So like you're saying that it's the best to be healthiest because maybe you'll let just say you'll live the longest. Right. That's not necessarily true if they take for the army, like Correct the healthiest people you didn't consider for that.

[01:55:44] And it, it's, yeah. It's that, that that goes hand in hand with that like that, like a, like that, that Chinese like, uh, yeah. You don't know what's happen. Story about like, yo, he fell off the horse. Oh, it's such a bad thing. Broke a leg. Yeah. Broke a leg. We don't, yeah, we 

[01:55:55] Eldar: don't 

[01:55:55] Toliy: know whether or not We'll don't judge it.

[01:55:57] We we'll see. We'll, we'll we'll see. Right. So like, he brings up like, so Socrates taught to, to, to people. This concept of cognitive flexibility to keep an open mind and to like, if you're sure of something, to basically make this like diagram, this like chart of like the, uh, like give the reason, give, give both scenarios.

[01:56:18] And if you like, you like, like you, you'll, you'll find in a lot of these ri rigid ways of thinking, there is argument for the other way. There is argument for the other way, but because of your rigid ways of thinking, um, to begin with, you don't have the flexibility to see different sides to like understand people, to like see where someone's coming from or to like e [01:56:40] even have room for error because like, you just have like a, like a, like a finite, that's it.

[01:56:45] Like Yeah. Line, you know? Yeah. So, 

[01:56:49] um, yeah, I think that like that, that's it. 

[01:56:52] Eldar: Yeah, exactly. So what I'm saying is that at the end of the day, I'm trying to stretch even further to find out how do we position ourselves to not needing to always fall on our own sword. 

[01:57:05] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:57:06] Eldar: Right. That we've created. And I think that's one of the ways you can do it by allowing yourself to, to know the truth or see the truth of the fact that we don't know everything.

[01:57:16] Mm-hmm. Anything can change. Just like this, you know, one day, one day is this, one day, it's that, you know, and. The more we position ourselves this way, I think the less we experience, experience the pain that is to come with unexpected quote unquote outcomes, right? Mm-hmm. Oh, Tesla's gonna go up. Uh, it's, it's a clear path.

[01:57:42] Mm-hmm. You know, Roboto, taxii, this, this, this, this, this, this, this. Oh, we didn't count for recession. No. 

[01:57:48] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:57:49] Eldar: Oh, we didn't count for the war. Mm-hmm. Oh, we didn't count for inflation virus, you know, for COVID. Mm-hmm. Right? And then you're like, oh, you took a stance. Mm-hmm. A rigid stance. Yeah. But then you have to play out mentally.

[01:58:07] Right. So that's what I, my, that's what my challenge is. That's why accountability is great. Obviously I understand this. Having the ability to be accountable for your shit is great. 

[01:58:15] Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 

[01:58:16] Eldar: I think what's even greater is to have. Not need to put yourself onto that gun in the first place. And in order to do that, you have to keep a, a humble mindset, right.

[01:58:26] By telling yourself and telling. If you're gonna say something out in the world, say one thing, I know that I know nothing. Mm-hmm. Those are my final thoughts. Thank you guys. Alright.