177. Conquering Negative Self-Talk to Unlock Empowerment

How do you know when to finally thrown in the towel and move on?

In this compelling episode, Mike, Eldar, and Toliy explore the path to true empowerment amid life's challenges. From battling negative self-talk in hobbies like rock climbing and creative pursuits, to navigating subconscious stressors, family business turmoil, and indecision fatigue, they share raw insights on extracting fulfillment from progress. Discover strategies for recharging energy, leading by example, and breaking free from cycles of doubt to build confidence and a purposeful life.

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Chapters

• 0:42 Understanding Empowerment
• 1:40 Personal Examples of Empowerment
• 5:04 The Importance of Acknowledging Progress
• 41:12 The Unyielding Positive Force
• 59:58 Reflecting on Communication Styles
• 1:12:58 The Importance of Clear Communication
• 1:24:48 The Long Journey to Self-Improvement
• 1:42:40 Delusional Negativity
• 2:21:44 Reevaluating Timelines and Progress
• 2:32:54 Comparing Efforts and Outcomes
• 2:51:36 Impact of External Factors
• 3:01:50 Final Reflections and Decisions

Transcript

[00:00:00] Mike: On this week's episode, I just wanna fucking like, have fun for myself a little bit, you know? But it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. And nothing's changing. I feel like I don't have any strength to fight this shit, you know? Like, uh, I'm not sure if I actually recharge. 

[00:00:13] Eldar: That's a loss. That's a loss.

[00:00:15] That's a loss. Accumulated loss. Mm-hmm. Without having been empowered to change your outcomes mm-hmm. Is gonna breed a negative self-talk. 

[00:00:25] Toliy: You don't even realize how much energy you're putting towards these indecisions living in this kinda like, heavy way. You can't enjoy things almost because like, you have those things hanging over you.

[00:00:42] Eldar: All right guys, this week's topic is empowerment. A lot of times we get into no, no different engagements, be it new hobbies, new adventures, maybe travel, maybe relationships. Right? And, um, our intentions to go into these things, obviously to extract something good, right? It could be fun, it can be, you know, inspiring.

[00:01:07] It can be something that you're chasing, maybe passion or something like that, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, but a lot of times our negative self-talk holds us away from uh, actually extracting something from those activities, right? And I mentioned to you that Catherine, my wife mm-hmm. Is, uh, you know, experiencing some of this stuff and she's trying to extract the good from some of the new activities that she's getting into, like sewing or jewelry making and stuff like that, right?

[00:01:33] But she understands and sees how her negative self-talk, uh, holds her away from it. 

[00:01:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:39] Eldar: Right? Uh, you have your own example, for example, in rock climbing. Yeah. Right. At least the one that I've experienced many times where, uh, I know for a fact that you've progressed since we've started to who you are now, what you're doing, you've progressed, but a lot of times your progression came at a price of a lot of negative self-talk.

[00:01:58] Right. A lot of doubt. 

[00:01:59] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:00] Eldar: Um, so when you complete that V two or V three or V four, right? Mm-hmm. Um, you come out of it almost like not really getting something that you needed to get from it. Yeah. You're not really fulfilling yourself. Mm-hmm. You're not empowering yourself, uh, in order to continue to do more and be really encouraged to explore different areas, right?

[00:02:21] Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of people have that, right? Um, Catherine's also talked about that when she was kind of doing stuff, even though she's creating something and she's trying something new, her negative self-talk and doubt about not being enough, not being able to be good right away or not be able to perceive information properly or be a good student mm-hmm.

[00:02:40] Is making her frustrated. Right. So instead of kind of turning on that switch of being creative, right. She's being bad to herself. 

[00:02:49] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:50] Eldar: Right. So I guess the question of the weak is how do we empower ourselves? How do we actually extract that what we need in order to be empowered? 

[00:02:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:02:57] Eldar: Uh, fully, and the things that we engage in totally.

[00:03:00] For example, right now is engaging in a new, uh, thing in sales. You know, he is exploring, discovering, yeah. Making, creating, right? Mm-hmm. I think you could probably talk about those pitfalls as well where there are bumps, right? But ultimately, how do you, you know, get to a point where you're now then empowered mm-hmm.

[00:03:20] To then be confident enough to continue and become the, the all that you can be 

[00:03:27] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:03:27] Eldar: When it comes to your craft or your passion, your hobby, or whatever it is. 

[00:03:32] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:32] Eldar: Right? I think it's a very important question to tackle. 

[00:03:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:03:35] Eldar: Yeah. Because I know you mentioned it several times, you were like, Hey, like I'm kind of struggling with that.

[00:03:39] You know, A lot of times I don't see my own progression. I don't acknowledge my own progression. Mm-hmm. I'm not grateful for some of this stuff that that did happen. Yeah. Right. And ultimately, if you didn't become more confident, then are you really empowered? Right. Have you empowered yourself? Right. Um, so 

[00:03:56] yes.

[00:03:58] Try to tackle that. Mm-hmm. Does that make sense? Totally. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:04:04] Mike: Yeah. I mean that's, um, that's, that's the issue that I feel like I'm having. Mm-hmm. You know, um, I guess the rock climbing is a very challenging one because it's something very, very new as well, like in the competition thing, so it's like a double kind of thing for me.

[00:04:22] Mm-hmm. You know? 'cause it's like I'm going against the competition, but also then like, also the failure negative self-talk. So it's like a double, uh, negative here. Mm-hmm. You know, but on the regular stuff, right. Like, as I've, uh, improved my quality of my life and stuff, and, you know, uh, having more peace and having better relationships and Yeah.

[00:04:39] You know, uh, slow down more and among, you know, other things. Yeah. Obviously that improve my quality of life. Just overall, I'm not sure if like, um,

[00:04:55] I'm not sure if I'm, uh, like extracting mm-hmm. What I think I should be extracting or I feel like I could, I could be extracting more. And I always ask you, ask you the question, I was like, should I be like, every time I do something that I think about, do I feel like, like say to myself, like, oh, I did something good for myself.

[00:05:13] I should be proud of myself. Like, good job kind of thing in like a verbal way. Because internally I don't say it, so. Yeah. Or maybe I do, but like you said, the negative talk 

[00:05:24] Eldar: over what powers that, you know, 

[00:05:24] Mike: like the orange one that we did on, on the V four. 

[00:05:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:28] Mike: I was very proud of myself o only because I kept pushing myself and I did it in fast.

[00:05:33] Like I did it basically in one day. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I knew it was a hard one and I wanted it a hard, I keep trying hard. Yeah. And I got to the point that like, my hands were finished. Yeah. Like I, I, my fingers were never so tired. 

[00:05:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:44] Mike: So I was like, yo, I, I gave as much as I can give. Yeah. Even though I didn't get on that first day, the next day I tried it, first attempt done.

[00:05:50] Okay, good. You know? Yeah. So I was like, I gave everything and I like, uh. I give myself the credit for it. Right? 

[00:05:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:58] Mike: Um, 

[00:05:58] Eldar: good. That's good. Yeah. Because before mm-hmm. Right. You've tried certain things and you maybe failed, and then you were right away you were like, ah, I've never done this, you know? Mm-hmm.

[00:06:07] Like, you threw yourself under the bus Yeah. Before even trying, right? Mm-hmm. Before, you know, even given that, uh, real effort. Yeah. And I think that when you do give that real effort without the negative self-talk, I think you do extract that like, wow. Like that euphoric feeling of like, holy shit, I accomplished this, right?

[00:06:23] Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:23] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:23] Eldar: Um, so I think that's probably, if you examine that whole, how that that thing played out. 

[00:06:29] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:29] Eldar: Yeah. If you could do more of that mm-hmm. I think you can get to a point of, uh, that focus that we talked about in previous podcasts Yeah. About actually focusing on the craft mm-hmm. On the thing and extracting everything that's in there 

[00:06:41] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:06:42] Eldar: To the point where then it turns into empowerment, you know, and then, you know, you feel good about yourself and everything that comes from it, you know? Yeah. And I was thinking about that because you asked me the question about basketball, you know? Mm-hmm. You're like, Hey, elder, you miss basketball? 

[00:06:56] Mike: Yeah.

[00:06:57] Eldar: And I didn't think about that before, and I know deep inside I kind of do. Mm-hmm. But like, like I'm enjoying rock climbing, like mm-hmm. To the next degree that I never even thought that I would. Like, it's a crazy new thing that we got into. It's been only three months. 

[00:07:10] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:07:11] Eldar: Uh, there's progression. I feel it, I feel stronger, I feel good about it, and I genuinely look forward to climbing.

[00:07:17] Like, I have like this thing now. Mm-hmm. You know, when you go to the gym long enough mm-hmm. After a while you're like, yo, I wanna go to the gym. You know what I mean? You crave it. You crave it. Mm-hmm. You know, uh, I have that now and I really feel good about it, and I'm having fun. And I think that it's empowering me because I feel stronger, because I see changes.

[00:07:34] I see that I'm getting, you know, craftier with the way I do things, you know? Mm-hmm. Climb and stuff. Uh, so I'm talking a little bit of shit now. See, 

[00:07:43] Mike: but what, you know what I mean? Described I'm probably doing the same. Yeah. But I never, haven't admitted that to myself. Only when you start, uh, saying those things Yeah.

[00:07:50] I start thinking about those things. Ah. 

[00:07:53] Eldar: So like, I actually, like, I'm not, I'm only vocalizing them now because of we're having this conversation. Yeah. But internally Yeah, I know how it makes me feel. I feel good. So you, yeah. So when you ask me do I miss basketball? Yes, I do, but I don't. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

[00:08:06] I told you like, I miss basketball. I know why I miss basketball. There's certain little things that I do miss about it, but in general, like I don't give a fuck. Mm-hmm. And I think because of the fact that I am getting exactly what I need and I want out of rock climbing. Mm-hmm. And I told Catherine, I'm like, yo, this is a lot less talking to me and my body.

[00:08:23] Sure. My shoulder hurts a little bit. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Maybe my knee because I bummed it against the wall. But like in general, I don't have like a two day layoff after like what we did used to do. Yeah. From basketball. 

[00:08:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:08:33] Eldar: So, no, I don't miss that. Yeah. That's for sure. You know, and I'm like, this is a completely new sport that is fulfilling the hole that we, we've created with basketball or the gym.

[00:08:42] Mm-hmm. But it's filling it really well for me. Mm-hmm. And I feel really good about it. Yeah. And I don't see stopping rock climbing anytime soon. As long as I'm Yeah. Feeling good about 

[00:08:50] it. Yeah. 

[00:08:51] So I'm empowered Yeah. From this. And nobody can tell me otherwise. Not even my old hobby. Mm-hmm. Which was in my head, right.

[00:08:59] Like, oh, you know, when we first were like, yo, we about to stop asking my whole You share the void. Yeah. Of course. Know what, whatever, whatever. But now it's like I don't give a fuck. Mm-hmm. I'm now, I'm a rock climber, bro. Like a new identity has been shifting in my head. Yeah. And I'm like, I like it. 

[00:09:14] Mike: Hmm. 

[00:09:15] Eldar: So I'm empowered, 

[00:09:16] Mike: you know?

[00:09:17] Yeah. But that's, is that because you are having these like, uh, internal kind of dialogues. And you're giving yourself the credit. Uh, I think I, maybe it's na it comes natural to me. See, it's for you. Yeah. Like, yeah. You're doing what's automated for you and I'm doing what I, what's automated for me for a very long time.

[00:09:34] Yeah. So that's what I, I think, and I said it to you in that kind of way as well, I was like, those automations 

[00:09:39] mm-hmm. 

[00:09:40] They serve the person who I was for a very long time. Yeah. And now that I'm changing Yeah. Those automations are no longer serving me. Yeah. And it's like, yeah. How I progressed, how I gotten better, am I doing like more stuff, not just in rock climbing, but in Yeah.

[00:09:53] You know, just rock climbing specifically. Yeah. Yeah. I think I've gotten better. I'm stronger. I'm more like, you know Yeah. Less scared and doing more things that are challenging and pushing myself. Yeah. Even though I fail, you know, a lot on certain things. Mm-hmm. And I still want to keep going. Yeah. You know?

[00:10:07] Yeah. So why am I not giving myself the credit for like, you know, whatever it is that I should be giving myself the credit for. Yeah. Yeah. Why do you, is it a matter of just saying like, oh, you don't have to talk to down to yourself like that you're not doing anything wrong. You're not like a bad person.

[00:10:20] You, you are trying, you are trying to like, so yeah. Along those lines, I guess. 

[00:10:25] Eldar: Well, yeah. You, you kind of have to answer that to yourself in order to, I guess, let go of those chains that's been holding you back for a very long time. 

[00:10:31] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I guess it's the acknowledgement of, uh, those things and no longer serving, but acknowledging of what's actually happening.

[00:10:42] Yeah. Seeing 

[00:10:43] Eldar: things 

[00:10:43] Mike: for what they are seeing things for. Yeah. And the truth 

[00:10:44] Eldar: is like, yo, yo, you climbing level four. Mm-hmm. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's, that's crazy accomplishment. Even the guy that I spoke to, I told you that's been climbing for years now. Mm-hmm. He's like, I'm watching you guys progress.

[00:10:55] Like, bro, he's like, I've been climbing ones and twos for like six months. 

[00:10:58] Mike: Mm. Yeah. 

[00:11:00] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? So like, you guys doing like fours, fives, or whatever. Mm-hmm. He's like this unbelievable progress. Mm. You know what I mean? People see it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I see it in you too. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:10] You know what I mean? I feel it in myself. You don't have to tell me that I'm climbing. Well, yeah. I know how I feel. Know what I mean? I'm starting to listen and pay attention and observing others who climb well or who we started with. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, oh shit. I see their mistakes already. I'm like paying attention to the details.

[00:11:25] Mm-hmm. And I like the details. I like to discuss those details. I like to learn from that stuff in order to then take ownership of it, own it, apply it, and extract what I need to extract from it. Mm-hmm. And then I start talking shit. 

[00:11:37] Mike: Yeah. But in a good way. Hmm. Well, 'cause I have 

[00:11:41] Eldar: confidence. 

[00:11:41] Mike: You know what I, I, I think I, I'm not sure if it's tied in, but I, it seems to me, uh, that it is, uh, my favorite thing to say is like the subtraction thing.

[00:11:49] Right? 

[00:11:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:50] Mike: And for a long time I was removing things from my life. 

[00:11:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:54] Mike: Right. I didn't serve you. That didn't serve me. And, um, on multiple reasons they didn't serve me. Probably they were bad for me. Yeah. And the way I was doing it was bad. Yeah. You know, a combination. But I think now, now that I've kind of progressed somewhat in my life and I'm in a better place, yeah.

[00:12:11] I think I want to add stuff. But now I think I need to learn how to add stuff because the way that I used to add stuff where engage in stuff was not healthy. Mm. So I think that's what's happening. Yeah. And this is, again, something brand new, something extremely challenging. 'cause just 'cause the competition 

[00:12:26] Eldar: stuff you brought your bad behaviors from, from before into this new thing.

[00:12:29] Mike: So I added a new thing. 

[00:12:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:12:30] Mike: But, but, uh, which is probably one of the very challenging things. Just be like I said, the competition. Mm-hmm. Against myself. Yeah. Which, and pushing myself in the sport. 

[00:12:41] Yeah. 

[00:12:41] If I pick something else up, I probably would. I don't think I'd have such a bad, I guess, attitude how I had 

[00:12:46] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:12:46] In this me and you. The next thing we gotta go and take over the pickleball. Oh yeah. We gotta goal they own everyone see there with a, with a new attitude. 

[00:12:57] Mike: With a new attitude. Yeah. Yeah. We could try that. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's where it's coming from, because now mm-hmm. Like, uh, now I feel like, um, I've been feeling this for a little while.

[00:13:05] It's like I want to start adding stuff into my life, but I'm also a little bit scared and cautious. Um, to do it wrong. To do it wrong, yeah. Yeah. And I was like, you wanted 

[00:13:15] Eldar: to serve you. 

[00:13:15] Mike: Yeah. I, you know what I mean? Wanted to serve me. Yeah. It has 

[00:13:17] Eldar: to be a clear serving. Like I said, you asked me like, Hey, you missed basketball.

[00:13:20] In my head it wasn't like, yeah, bro, I can't wait to go back. No. It was a complete pause. It's like, yo, do I really miss basketball? I don't. Mm-hmm. I know what comes with it. Like, I was able to reflect on that because I have an imagination. I, and I have a memory. I remember. Yeah. No, I don't. It's cool. I love it.

[00:13:37] It's still, it still holds a, you know, a very special place in my heart. 

[00:13:41] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:42] Eldar: Oh, I don't miss it. Mm-hmm. Because I found something that's serving me right now, and I really enjoy it. 

[00:13:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:13:47] Eldar: You know? 

[00:13:48] Mike: Yeah. No, I mean, obviously it's much more, uh, much less toing on the body. 

[00:13:54] Eldar: Yeah. But even though it could be very tall, it could be.

[00:13:56] Yeah. It's a very, it's different though. Very extreme 

[00:13:58] sport. It's, yeah. You know, 

[00:14:02] Mike: so, yeah. You know, so that's how, that's, that's how I feel. Yeah. You know, and I want to, I want to add stuff, you know, like I wanna start, 'cause like I come home and I still have energy and I still have a desire to do things. Hmm.

[00:14:15] You know, and like, but I don't feel like I'm, um, yeah. You probably, you receive a sense of fulfillment right? When you climb? A hundred percent. Yeah. I receive that probably like, uh, some parts when I do good. And that, like that orange 100%. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Is that like, um, new foreign kind of thing for me, yes.

[00:14:38] Like that feeling. Mm-hmm. But obviously the times that I did do like certain climbs and I did do well, and I definitely was like, proud of myself before I did a negative self-talk. Yes. Okay. I was like coming out very happy, excited, like, you know. Mm-hmm. And I, I always still look forward to going. Okay, that's good.

[00:14:54] You know, I have the butterflies every time, like, get nervous, like to go Yeah. Because I know like I'm gonna push myself. Yeah. Those crazy heights or climbs that I know have to do. I'm like, yo, this is scary. Sketchy. 

[00:15:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:15:03] Mike: But I want to do it. You know? So I definitely get that. Sensation. Mm-hmm. That's why you blow up the bathroom.

[00:15:13] It's not the Chinese food he's saying. 

[00:15:15] Eldar: Yeah. That's a joke. Yeah. So yeah. The how to figure out to be and be able to extract, like I said, everything that you can from the things that you do do, right? Mm-hmm. Especially if the offer that type of, you know, um, potential Yeah. Of being empowered, right. To see, to see yourself through and see the progress and be proud of yourself.

[00:15:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:38] Eldar: You know? I think that's why all those rock climbers climb because of that too. 

[00:15:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:15:43] Eldar: You know what I mean? Even though I think that a lot of them are, do have that negative self-talk. Oh yeah. Yeah. You can hear it. Hundred percent beat themselves up, I can't do this, I can't do that. The irrational fears and everything else, right?

[00:15:54] Mm-hmm. So, you know.

[00:16:00] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:16:01] Eldar: Totally. 

[00:16:03] What are your thoughts? 

[00:16:06] Toliy: I'm trying 

[00:16:06] Eldar: to Or organize them. Organize them? Yeah. Okay. 

[00:16:08] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like, um, to me, I feel like, like the way, the way I think about this for, for myself and just all these different things, it's like, um, like I think there's a bigger issue here at hand. Hmm. Um, what's the 

[00:16:24] Eldar: issue?

[00:16:25] Toliy: Well, like there, there's a lot of different things. Like, like, like, um,

[00:16:35] when, when like, I, like I observe what you guys are saying and then like, I, I, I observe my, my own things and myself and then like, I look at it from like, almost like outside of myself, you know, like looking like, I'm like, I have like an aerial view. Yeah. At, at it. The, the way I think about it's like this, like fir first off, when it comes to like enjoying things and getting like, um, fulfillment from them.

[00:17:01] Like the, the way when I, when, when, when I see like. Elder, for example, doing something, and then I see like myself doing something, like, it's a completely different like, um, um, engagement, right? Like, um, like I, I don't think that I get nearly as fulfilled or like, I nearly have that kind of level of like, like a, like, um, focus or like immersion or fulfillment that like, oh, there has in the things that he does, you know?

[00:17:32] Um, and like, so that, that, that's one thing. Like I, I, I, I think it's difficult for you to like, maybe let's say like relate mm-hmm. In, in that kind of way. Um, maybe let's just say like my, my, my opinion at least, like with me and Mike for, for example. Mm-hmm. Um, because like you, you extract different things and like, like you're, you're, um, extremely good at being immersed in what, in whatever it is that you're doing, you know?

[00:18:03] Mm-hmm. Whether it's climbing, working on something, gardening, like reading something, listening to something. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and I feel like, um, like we've all had maybe like, like its of it, um, um, like I remember like, there was times like years ago when I used to like play like a, like video games a lot.

[00:18:29] Like, I used to play like Wow. A lot. Like on the computer. 

[00:18:31] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:32] Toliy: Right? And I could be, and I was like immersed, like mm-hmm. Immersed, like, I, like, I don't even remember what happened to time. Like, it was like 

[00:18:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:41] Toliy: All almost non-existent, you know? And like, you almost like blank out because like, you're so like immersed in what, what you're doing and there's like a particular.

[00:18:52] Like when, when you're done with it, there's almost like some kind of like, crash that happens because it's like you were so immersed in something and now you kind of like, almost like go back to like, nor like normal life mm-hmm. For example, if you wanna call it that. Yeah. You know, so that, that, that's like one thing.

[00:19:08] And I think that like, um, but I think we, we, we talked about something sim similar, maybe like a, like a few months back where it's like, um, like if you have particular problems with things in your life or like stressors, um, it becomes very difficult to like, focus. Um, well, one, to focus, yes. And then two, to enjoy any kind of progress like, on things.

[00:19:37] Because like, um, whether you're actively thinking about those things like in the moment or they're just like buzzing in the background. They're, they're there, they're distractions and they, they make it very difficult for you to kind of like, enjoy any kind of like progress because like you, you could be progressing, but internally you feel like you haven't done anything.

[00:20:01] Mike: Mm. 

[00:20:01] Toliy: Um, and oftentimes it's because like you're, you're making progress in one thing, but then you're dressers and you're, you're damaging something else and you're damaging that and it's almost like canceling out. Oh. So you just feel like you're like, that's a good point. Run, running in place is what it feels like.

[00:20:16] Eldar: That's a good point. You 

[00:20:17] Toliy: know? Yeah. Um, so, um, like, I don't remember the last time where I, where I had that feeling of like actually being focused, like actually being like immersed, um, like ac actually enjoying myself in that kind of way and just being like, wow. Like, well, where did time go? Like, like we, we were just doing this for like seven hours or something.

[00:20:41] Right? Hmm. Like what happened? 

[00:20:42] Speaker 20: Yeah. 

[00:20:43] Toliy: Like, like, you know, um, and. I feel like that that plays a big role, role in it. And it, it's sometimes it's difficult to think about because like, um, not always do those like stressors and those problems are like, right, like on the forefront at that time in front of you, right?

[00:21:04] Like there at, at like, like in those moments, it's very easy to acknowledge it, right? Mm-hmm. But because it still exists in your life, like, you don't have that like, like you're like shackled, you know? Like you don't have that like, um, freedom to go, go, go take an hour and enjoy yourself and immerse yourself completely.

[00:21:22] Like, mm. Like you can't tell someone to do that, that has problems or stressors it, like you can try as best you can, but for the most part it's, it's like a very difficult 

[00:21:34] Eldar: task to like, so you Yeah. I hear what you're saying. I think I agree with you. I agree with you that ultimately what's happening is that, um, because of those distractions, because of those stressors, you can never get everything extracted from that immersion.

[00:21:48] And that's what is actually needed in order to then heal you, empower you, right. And take you to that next level of yourself. I think he is 

[00:21:58] Toliy: right, like pur, like purposeful, like living is like immersive, like, like it's a, it's an immersive, it, it's supposed to be an immersive like, um, ex uh, like experience, you know?

[00:22:10] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:22:11] Toliy: Um, and, um, like oftentimes non purposeful, like living is maybe like, like, like I viewed it as an example of like, you could be stressing somewhere and then you could be doing something else that like, you want to kind of like make an attempt to like relax or like enjoy yourself. But because those things like cancel each other out, like you, like you don't understand almost what's going on, but you don't know it.

[00:22:39] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:22:39] Toliy: You know, 

[00:22:40] Eldar: plus, and you probably don't have proper associations with them then as well. You might be doing something right that might be beneficial to you. You might be going into those moments of focus or whatever it is, right. But you can never kinda like, continue and do more and build on it because you're not even acknowledging that or you don't have the ability to acknowledge that because your mind is somewhere else.

[00:23:00] This is what you're talking about. You're saying that like, yo, like do I have to just kind of tell myself like, what I'm doing right now is correct. You know what 

[00:23:07] Toliy: I mean? The, the, the more extreme version of what I'm talking about where like, pretty much almost everyone has like either seen, heard, or like familiar with where it's more obvious.

[00:23:16] Like, like if you're not feeling well or you're like in a bad place, like someone's like, Hey, let, let's go this, do do this. Take, take, take your mind off things. 

[00:23:25] Eldar: Hmm. 

[00:23:26] Toliy: Yeah. Like that, that's an expression we've all like, yes. Heard and seen, right? 100%. Like what are you, like, what are you talking about? Like, yeah.

[00:23:33] That, like whoever that person is, whether it's you or someone else, like they're in a bad place and you're gonna go try and take 'em to, to a new place to try to do something that's supposed to be mm-hmm. Interesting. Or like fun distract them or like distract them. Right. It's, it's like, um, if you try to do good for somebody that has like a bad attitude, for example, right?

[00:23:53] Yeah. Like, like they can't, um, like, enjoy themselves in that moment. And for you it's almost like a little baffling. It's like, Hey, like we're doing this. Yeah. Right? Yeah. What's wrong with you? Right? Yeah. Like, like that. Why not? Or like, yeah, like for, for someone to take their mind off, like to take their mind off things.

[00:24:11] It's, first off, it's very difficult to, to do that. And there's no way they're gonna be able to enjoy themselves to, to the level that you're like thinking or planning for them in your head. 

[00:24:21] Mike: Mm. 

[00:24:21] Toliy: You know, that's a good point. And like what I'm talking about is like the buzz, like the um, um, the version of it where it's almost like unconscious where it's like that one, that one is obvious.

[00:24:31] Like something is really bad right now. Yeah. You broke up with your girlfriend. Yeah. And someone's, someone wants some shot. Yeah. Like you, you, you have a situation on hand clear. Yeah. But da, da issue is that like. We have many of these different types of situations that are, are very low frequency. Yeah.

[00:24:44] They're just not at hand right now, but they're there. Yeah. And then you go try and engage in things that like you enjoy doing for, for example, but you can't enjoy them like that, that, that, that's just like to to, to me, like the reality of it that like it's, it, it, it, it's very difficult to enjoy those things and you almost are like, um, not understanding why.

[00:25:08] Eldar: Oh, okay. 'cause you're unconscious to what's, that's right. What's happening. So what he's saying is that you need to become very conscious of the low frequency stress. 

[00:25:16] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:17] Eldar: And then try to mitigate it, work with it, remove it. Mm-hmm. Right. Understand it in order to then liberate yourself and finally go Right and engage in these activities in the, in the most freeing way possible.

[00:25:33] Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:33] Speaker 19: Where 

[00:25:34] Eldar: you actually free. 

[00:25:35] Speaker 19: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:36] Eldar: Wow. Okay. So what do you think, Mike is totally onto something? 

[00:25:43] Mike: Yeah. I mean, um, I think what he's saying is very possible. Yeah. But I guess how would I identify 

[00:25:50] Speaker 19: what are the,

[00:25:56] mm-hmm. What are those stressors? Totally. 

[00:26:01] Toliy: Yeah. I mean like, um, um, 1, 1, 1, 1 thing I just wanted to add to it is that like, for, for a long time in my life and, and, and, and now as well, at times, um, like what an anxiety helps, helps you do, or like negative self-talk, let, lets you do is that let it, um, it basically like contributes to you living in this in-between world.

[00:26:26] You know, where like, like, like for example, like I, I, I definitely view Eldar as someone that like, if he has like an issue or like a problem with some something, he's not like a let it drag. Like on person, like the, the But why do you say that? Like, I have some examples of me. No, no. Stop it. Okay. The, the, like, the most, the, the most example I could think of is like letting his license expire and letting that drag for like a while.

[00:26:52] But that, that, that just, like, that's not, that, that doesn't even bring you stress's not, that's not even like, that's Yeah. Like, like, like that that, that, that's one example I could think of recently where like Elder just kind of like, was like, yeah. Whatever on things, you know? Yeah. Um, but, but, but like in in in general, he's definitely like he has a problem.

[00:27:12] Yeah. He address it. Yeah. And then he puts himself in a position to no longer, um, experience that problem. Because I think that if he doesn't do it, I think he re he was already past that cusp of like, he knows that letting these di different things add up result to like an interruption in, in like the things that, like, it, it's, it's an interruption in, in his life.

[00:27:35] And then it like, prevents him from being in that like, immersive, like, um mm-hmm. Space and having those kinds of experiences. Okay. And it may not be like one thing, but if you start, you know, bringing in 2, 3, 4, 5 things, that, that's when it does. And I think he's very sensitive to that, which is why he will like, remove him from sit situations for like, he'll, like he, he, he's not gonna rely on like, any kind of scenario to like, if that scenario has like a, a, a good chance to like bring him like stress.

[00:28:06] Mm-hmm. You know? Um, um, so, so, so, um, where, where, like, for example, for like me at times I will live in this in-between world of like indecision, non-action overthinking. Mm-hmm. Right. And like, I will be stressing about something on one hand. Trying to do another thing. Yeah. But then wanting the results of something else that might be like the polar opposite of that.

[00:28:34] And then live living in a not one way or another way, like world, like in, in between decisions. Mm-hmm. Like you haven't went one way, you haven't went the other way. Mm-hmm. But nonetheless, you are still experiencing stress. Right. Where like, if you haven't decided to go left or right, yet you, you theoretically like shouldn't be experiencing the repercussions of one of the sides, for example, like the bad side if mm-hmm.

[00:28:57] If, if, if, if you wanna call it that. So, um, that, that's also some something that I feel like is non like, um, non-conscious for the most part, where like, you don't even realize how much energy you're putting towards these indecisions and these like, decisions and like, like li living in this kinda like he heavy way.

[00:29:18] Mm-hmm. You know? Um, but you were asking as far as like, how do you go about identifying these things? 

[00:29:25] Mike: Yeah. And, and again, also the things 

[00:29:28] Toliy: that 

[00:29:30] Mike: there's, or maybe you, that you think that all the problems can be solved instantly or very fastly or like, uh, or not to have any stress. Like, I'm not sure what you mean.

[00:29:43] Toliy: The things that I feel like, um, um, it, like, it's not that like everything needs to be solved at one time. 

[00:29:54] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:54] Toliy: But if you're not doing things like about it, and you're not consciously feeling the progress of those things that are like, that, that, that are like, like, uh, causing you mm-hmm. Stress. 

[00:30:08] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:30:08] Toliy: Um, you'll be in that place where it's difficult to, to like, like you can't enjoy things almost because like you have those things 

[00:30:18] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:30:18] Toliy: Hanging over you. And that's assuming that you're conscious about though those things. A lot of things I'm talking about too is like, these are like unconscious things that are happening. That, um, you may not understand the impact that they're having on your overall like wellbeing. 

[00:30:33] Mike: Okay. Um, so why don't we use our real life example and you can tell me how I can navigate that.

[00:30:42] Yeah. And not to carry this trust to focus more the situation with the limo business and other people that are involved in it. Yeah. That are, that is, that is I'm entangled with. 

[00:30:54] Toliy: Yeah. Like, um,

[00:30:59] like what, what to actually do. Or, or, or like are you saying if that's an example of 

[00:31:03] Mike: Oh, I know that's an example. Yeah. That's a big example. Yeah, that's definitely 

[00:31:05] Toliy: a big example. Like, like Yeah, I know that, 

[00:31:07] Mike: that's why I brought it up. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:31:09] Toliy: Like, um, yeah, I definitely find it very difficult. Like, I would find it very difficult to enjoy anything if I had that hang hanging over me.

[00:31:17] Mm-hmm. So, okay. Like the, the only time where you can actually actually enjoy things, I think is that like when you get completely beaten up where like you have nothing like mm-hmm. Left to like give her something. Like, you have, you have like, not nothing in those moments. I think that you, you can for a short while, like enjoy something 'cause you're just like, completely like mm-hmm.

[00:31:37] Finished. 

[00:31:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:38] Toliy: Right. But most of the time that's not the case. Um, but as far as like, like yeah. 

[00:31:46] Mike: This is not something that like, uh, I, I, I mean, yeah. I'd like to know how would I solve this that I can not have the stress from it. Yeah. You know? Um, considering there's multiple people involved here. 

[00:31:59] Toliy: Yeah. I mean, I feel like, like I, I don't know off the top of my head, I'd probably have to think about like what to actually do.

[00:32:04] Mm-hmm. But I think that like, whatever would actually, like, whatever would need to be done and whatever progression would need to happen would have to be like, um, solely dependent on you. I, I would think and like, um 

[00:32:18] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:32:20] Toliy: Like it can't be, uh, dependent on some someone else like doing something and then like.

[00:32:26] Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It would have to be like, um, so solely dependent on you. 

[00:32:31] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Well, it's a complex issue, Mike. Yeah, no, I know that. You know what I mean? Like sure. That's a, it's a, that, that dynamic has been complex for a very long time. Sure. You know what I mean? So, yeah. Like, I don't know if it's fair to just ask Totally for like, what should I do on this thing?

[00:32:45] Yeah, yeah. No. In order to then free myself and be completely worth No, I'm just trying to 

[00:32:48] Mike: explain, give the example that Yeah. Yeah. Some things are not solvable instantly. And I think Yeah. Like I think, uh, that's part of it. Yeah. That's part of it. There's stresses that we carry. Yeah. Uh, even though other UCL doesn't have stress, maybe he does have some stress that's ongoing.

[00:33:03] Yeah. And that's been open for a while that he can't solve and he's instantly Yeah. Instantly. And because of other people, because of other relationships. Yeah. Because of his own relationship with himself too. Right. Like, these are things that we all have outstanding. 

[00:33:16] Yeah. You know? 

[00:33:18] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like some things are definitely more like long-term problems, but I also feel that like it's kind of where you also stand in those things and, and are you happy with where you stand on on them?

[00:33:30] Yeah. What's the progress of those things? Right? Yeah. Like my, my, like, my, my assumption would be that probably like if you were examined that kind of, that like scenario probably in specific, um, you probably like, like are not happy where you stand like in that, and you're, and, and you may not be sure like of the progress and you may not be sure of like what's next, for example.

[00:33:52] Yeah. But the thing is, it's true. If, if that's the case mm-hmm. Those tho those, those things will be unconsciously causing, weighing you 

[00:34:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:00] Toliy: A lot of suffering and weight. Yeah. And prevent you from enjoying yourself and any other thing. Like you, you, you can go try and do whatever. Mm-hmm. But those things will, um, like.

[00:34:12] It's, it, it's like, um, take space in your mind. Yeah. It's mm-hmm. It's like that conversation we, we had where like, it's like if like a portion of like your, like your core of who you are is like a bit rotten, right? Like, like, it's like, it could be like a rotten scenario, for example. That rotten scenario will find like those emotions that you feel in that, whether it's like anger, frustration, like depression, those things will grow a little weed in that like, climbing garden that you're in.

[00:34:42] And you'll have some anger in the climbing. You'll have some frustration. You'll, you'll have a weed of like, of like de depression in there. Right. Frustration in there. Yeah. And in whatever that you, you do those things, those things are like, oh, like, you know, like, you have a new hobby of like playing chess.

[00:34:58] Speaker 21: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:58] Toliy: We're, we're gonna make its way there. 

[00:35:00] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[00:35:00] Toliy: You know? So, um, yeah. Like that, that's how I feel about How does that, 

[00:35:06] Mike: um, how does that tie in, like the, the, the issue that I have, the stress that I have that's going on with my family and the business? 

[00:35:14] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[00:35:14] Mike: How is that stress tied to negative self-talk that's in the rock climbing?

[00:35:20] Toliy: Well, it, it, it's like there there's particular like, um, emotions that you have in there and exper like experiences like mm-hmm. Both already formed in like habitual ways, right? Like, for example, may maybe the act of like, people talking like nasty to each other. Mm-hmm. When you see that, that's probably like whatever for you already.

[00:35:40] It's like, like, not, not, not that it may not like consciously impact you. Mm-hmm. But like, it's not surprising if someone does that right? Mm-hmm. But like, like if el were to talk nasty to like, Catherine in front of us, for example. 

[00:35:53] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:54] Toliy: Like, like it would definitely be surprising to, to me 'cause it's not like, it's not an association I have or like some, something I'm like used to seeing or experiencing.

[00:36:02] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:02] Toliy: Right. But like, if my parents talk nasty to each other or my family, like that's normalized already. Like, that's already like there. Mm-hmm. Right. So, um. Those, like, um, all those feelings you have in there, all those like memories you have in there and where, where everything stands in there, all that is going to, um, sur surface in any, in any part of life that you venture like, like is my like, um, opinion on it.

[00:36:30] Mike: Yeah. But I, I just, I'm, I'm not following though. How would the people being nasty to each other in my house, uh, be connected with the negative self-talk in the climbing gym? 

[00:36:41] Toliy: Well, well because like, um, all of those like emotions and actions and like ways of doing things and like understandings and like 

[00:36:49] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:36:50] Toliy: Um, all those experiences, um, they're, they're like a part of who you are, right? Yeah. Okay. And, and, and because they're a part of who you are and what makes you up 

[00:37:01] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:37:02] Toliy: To whatever portion it is. 

[00:37:03] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:04] Toliy: That person of who you are, um, is going to surface in those things. I, 

[00:37:10] Eldar: I'll explain to you, Mike. So, so, so like for example, like, don't Yeah.

[00:37:12] I don't get 

[00:37:13] Toliy: it. Like if, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, go ahead. 

[00:37:16] Eldar: Uh, every conversation mm-hmm. That you have with your dad, every conversations you have with your sister mm-hmm. Every conversation, you know, that the way it turns out, the way it does turn out right for you, the outcomes of it. Mm-hmm. Right? The way you react to it, the way you respond to it, the way you participate in it is the climb, the fall.

[00:37:36] Mike: Mm-hmm. You know 

[00:37:36] Eldar: what I'm saying? The impact. 

[00:37:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:38] Eldar: Whatever it is, it's that thing. You know what I'm saying? So, whichever way that you are reacting, you know, if you came out of the conversation with your dad and you felt in it mm-hmm. You didn't like it, the frustration and stuff like that, you model that then on the climb.

[00:37:57] Mike: Okay. Sure. 

[00:37:58] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? So if you didn't, like, if you didn't like the conversation about the move, right? 

[00:38:04] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:04] Eldar: Or you explain something to him mm-hmm. Say, Hey, you know. This is gonna happen or this is what you can expect. And he does the opposite, right? 

[00:38:13] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:13] Eldar: Goes against what you've advised.

[00:38:15] For example, maybe you had a slight attachment to him taking your advice. He didn't take it. Now you're frustrated with him, right? 

[00:38:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:22] Eldar: You lost, that's the climb that you went on. It was a V four. Mm-hmm. Or V five, it was above your head. Mm-hmm. And you fell. Mm-hmm. And you fell frustrated inside.

[00:38:31] Internally. Same thing on the climb. You go on the climb and then you experiencing that fall, and then internally you still have the negative self-talk. 

[00:38:40] Mike: Yeah. But in the conversation, my data, I'm not having negative self-talk though. That's, 

[00:38:46] Toliy: well, that's what you think. You, you've also, through those relationships, like you've experienced like the, the act of negative self-talk and all that is very, um, very normal.

[00:38:59] For example, normal in your family. Normal, yeah. For, for example, like mm-hmm. With self-esteem, right? Like, like you have low self-esteem. Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:05] Mike: Emma 

[00:39:06] Toliy: has low self-esteem, right? Like mm-hmm. Maybe your mom has low self-esteem in her like value or like worth. Mm-hmm. Right? I dunno about Gary, but for example.

[00:39:15] But, um, like that, that, that is a very like, um, like, um, taught type of behavior, right? Um, and that, and that, like, that, that type of thing is something that you do now to yourself naturally, organically. Like, like naturally. But you don't even realize where it came from. But it came from things like that.

[00:39:35] Mike: Mm-hmm. You observing 

[00:39:36] Eldar: your dad leaving the conversation, mid-conversation and locking himself in the room, right? Mm-hmm. Throwing a fit, that's it. Mm-hmm. You've watched that behavior for a very long time. Mm-hmm. You've modeled it and now it's been conditioned within you. Yeah. You know what I mean? So every time something like that happens, right, you then internalize it within yourself and needs, a lot of the stuff is really just on flying under the radar without you even understanding how you are affecting yourselves.

[00:40:02] Mm-hmm. But it's actually affecting you, you know what I mean? Why? Because. You don't feel like you've been empowered from that conversation. You didn't come out of it winning, you know what I'm saying? You didn't come out with getting exactly what you wanted. That's a fail. And how you internalize it, if you really examine it, a lot of times it's negative self-talk.

[00:40:23] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:24] Eldar: It's, it, it's results in that, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:28] Toliy: Yeah. It, yeah. It's like, like for me, for example, like I definitely growing up was like, again, like the person that like did not make the team. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, did not get selected. Mm-hmm. Did not get seen. And like that memory and that like, identity stuck with me for a very long time.

[00:40:47] And like, um, like prob, prob probably like, at times different things, like thanks to like Elder, he would go with me on those like a, like a, like a journey. Like, almost like in like that a movie. Like, um, what Dreams may Come 

[00:41:02] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:41:02] Toliy: When, uh, he went with, with his wife, right? Mm-hmm. And she, and like he was talking to her, do you, do you remember?

[00:41:08] And he was like, yeah, she was in, hell was in hell. He's like, I'm gonna join you in this. Hell 

[00:41:12] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:41:12] Toliy: And like, everything for her was bad. Everything was like that. Yeah. And he was like, like an immovable, like positive, like object, right. Where like, he displayed like, undeniable, undeniable, like pos positive like force.

[00:41:25] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:25] Toliy: Even though like, she kept, she, she gave him nothing. Like she, she kept throwing all shit at him and he was only like, like trying to bring her up even though she wasn't giving any kind of progress or like, like, uh, like, um, showing anything. Right. And, and, and like, we had like endless like of these types of experiences where like, um, like, like it, it's, it took a lot on certain things where it's like, you know, I can like, like I can actually do it or like I can actually win or like, it's possible or like, you can make that team, or like you can do those types of like things.

[00:42:00] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:01] Toliy: Like, um, and, and, and, and not that I don't struggle with this at all now. But like to get over the hump to do those kinds of things. Like, um, or like to have any kind of like, control over your, like reality or like believe that you can or believe that like some, some, something is possible. Like, like, um, like, like I definitely did not have that, like, um, for, for, for a long time.

[00:42:30] And that was all like taught behaviors or that was all like, um, like experienced outcomes, right? Mm-hmm. That like I participated in and like I learned from, right? So like, even if those people were not right, for example, like even if they were incorrect 

[00:42:46] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:42:46] Toliy: Or, or whatnot. Like, it, it, like, it didn't matter in my life because like, I still like, that to me was normalized, right?

[00:42:53] Mm-hmm. Same thing like in your situation, like those, all those different types of things are normalized, like, like the act of like dis disrespecting each other, right? Mm-hmm. That it's like a normalized thing, like in, in, in, for example in that, in, in, in your family, like, um, dynamic, right? Mm-hmm. So like, it, like those things are then going to be normalized in your own life and in, in, yeah.

[00:43:18] Like, like el there saying like, any of those actions could be depicted in like, whichever way, like the climb or like taking the jump or like some kind of fear or like not giving yourself credit. Like you can build that story out in the other experiences that, that like you, you've had before you even started climbing.

[00:43:40] Speaker 19: Mm-hmm. Okay. So do you see the connection? 

[00:43:45] Mike: Yeah, sure. Like, uh, I see it somewhat. Yeah. 

[00:43:49] Eldar: Well, you're saying it's sure like, is like, like you kind of disagree. 

[00:43:54] Mike: Yeah. No, I see it, but it's just not a pleasant thing to like fucking you guys saying basically. Uh, sounds like I haven't progressed at all. That's where exactly why I like that.

[00:44:03] Why you say, say that? Well, because you, that's what it sounds like. No. What do you mean? I mean, because I know what you're, you are saying that you haven't done anything. That's why you're not giving yourself credit. No, no. That's not what I'm saying. I know what 

[00:44:14] Toliy: he's, I, I, I know what he's saying, but like, it, like, it's not that you haven't, like, like you're, you are not giving yourself credit for everything that you've done to get to a point where you real, where you, like, you feel, how you feel like you're not giving credit to, to that which, which is why, like you're saying that 

[00:44:32] Mike: I don't understand what you said, 

[00:44:34] Toliy: like, um, like, it's almost like, uh, like you're, you're, you're saying that it feels like you, you haven't pro progressed or you haven't done anything.

[00:44:44] No. We're trying what you guys are saying, trying to understand 

[00:44:46] Eldar: the link between the two. 

[00:44:47] Mike: No, no. Based on what you guys are saying, I haven't progressed at all because I'm still feeling this way. I feel like the dynamic in my house has changed, but I'm still suffering the consequences if 

[00:44:54] Eldar: they haven't. Well, well, no, like Mike, but like, it's also like, for example, the big consequence, right?

[00:44:59] You say you don't sleep well. 

[00:45:00] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:01] Eldar: There's a very specific dynamic that's happening in your house because of, you know, your nephew. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's fucking your shit up. 

[00:45:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:07] Eldar: And not sleeping well and waking up to problems, Mike, that's like a big one. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? So like, we're just trying to point out that there, there's actual things that are still happening Yeah.

[00:45:15] That are affecting you. Sure. And you know that mm-hmm. They're undeniable. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You losing there. 

[00:45:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:22] Eldar: That's a loss. That's a loss. That's a loss. Accumulated loss. Mm-hmm. Without having, being empowered to change your outcomes mm-hmm. Is gonna breed a negative self-talk. Mm-hmm.

[00:45:34] It's gonna breed an attitude. And it's much, 

[00:45:34] Toliy: it's much more difficult in the mental realm because like, if you bump your knee, right, like you feel a physical pain and like, you know, like you, you, you just hit that wall and like, now this hurts. Right? Yeah. Like, it, like it's very crystal clear. The issue with some of these, or, or like, what, what's happening with a lot of these, um, men mental, um, things is that like, they could be happening, but you're not even acknowledging them as like you Oh, their correlation.

[00:46:02] Correct. Like, like imagine like every time one of these things happened, you, you just got smacked in the face. Yeah. Like, you would then have to like, stop your tracks and be like, yo, what the fuck 

[00:46:11] Eldar: is happening? Yeah. Well, like what if I, what if I was there every time? Right. You woke up Right. And you had the chance to do something and you didn't, and I watched it and I slapped you across the face like, yo, Mike, what the fuck is wrong with you?

[00:46:22] Mm-hmm. Go over there and tell, tell him to shut up or go tell him this. Go tell him that. You know what I mean? Stand up for yourself. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. That kind of thing. That's what he's talking about. He see, he sh he's telling you that you might not be able to see the correlation at all, but, 

[00:46:34] Toliy: but you're still feeling the effects of it.

[00:46:36] Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then this happens all the time. All the time. And it's much more difficult to identify in the mental world than in the physical world. Correct. When you tweak your ankle, your ankles tweak. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You're like, you're, you're, you're, you're like, this is the cause and this is the effect.

[00:46:51] This is, yeah. It's crystal clear. Mm-hmm. But on these mental things like your, your habits, the, like, there, there are so much that it takes to actually be able to like identify like, oh, that that just happened and that meant this, and now I feel this way. Like, that type of conscious moment is very rare. It like, like, it's not like a normal phenomenon.

[00:47:12] Mike: Mm-hmm. But 

[00:47:13] Toliy: in the physical world, you have no choice but to feel ac actual pain, which is why like the conquering of these other things, I think is significantly harder. 

[00:47:23] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:25] Eldar: You know what just came to mind? Mm-hmm. That little exchange that you had with Jared about the candy? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.

[00:47:31] I, I, I, what happened there? Give me your testimony actually about what actually happened with the candy. Did you know that it was his? Yeah. He told, he brought it and he, he put it in the fridge. Uhhuh. He said that publicly? Yes. Yes. Okay. Yeah, because the, like what I felt there from him towards you. Yeah.

[00:47:47] Yeah. It was a very specific thing. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And if, if, if it's fine under your radar, it's not fine on, on my radar. Yeah. I'm giving you awareness right now. Oh, I know that something's happening. Yeah. Okay. And something's probably has been happening from before that the dynamic is shifting.

[00:48:03] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:04] Eldar: Okay. That I'm not sure if you're getting too friendly with him. 

[00:48:07] Mike: Mm-hmm. Right. 

[00:48:08] Eldar: You're getting into that realm where the respect boundary mm-hmm. Might get a little bit blurred. 

[00:48:12] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:13] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. And something is about to go down. 

[00:48:15] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:16] Eldar: I don't know if you know this, I'm feeling this mm-hmm.

[00:48:19] Just from that little thing. Just 

[00:48:21] Mike: this thing. Yeah. 

[00:48:21] Eldar: Just this thing. And I, 

[00:48:23] Toliy: yeah. And I've heard comment, he something in that like exchange mm-hmm. The way that he was Yeah. The way that he said it and the way that he was talk, talking the whole time. Like, yeah. 

[00:48:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:31] Toliy: Like he, he basically said like, yo, don't do that again.

[00:48:35] Eldar: Mm-hmm. You, like, you, you were kind of under the impression of fucking around. Yeah. But this, this was wasn't a fucking round moment for him. 

[00:48:40] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:40] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. There was a disparity of two moments right there. 

[00:48:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:48:43] Eldar: And like I said, this is an example of what's something might be flying under your radar.

[00:48:48] Mm-hmm. But it's there. Mm-hmm. You don't see it. But I see that for example. 

[00:48:52] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:48:53] Eldar: You know what I mean? I don't know what's going on, like I said. Right. But that friendliness, that thing. 

[00:48:58] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:59] Eldar: You relax on that. Yeah. You are gonna get a pushback mm-hmm. That then you're gonna be like, oh shit. You know what I'm saying?

[00:49:05] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:05] No, I agree. See, he, 

[00:49:07] I 

[00:49:08] felt it a hundred percent. I'm like, yo, is ADA's fucking mind? What are we doing over here? Yeah. Like, why is he tripping? Yeah. You know, like we keep an inventory over here. 

[00:49:16] Eldar: Yeah. Well, like I said, I don't know if it's coming from somewhere else. Right. That's that type of dynamic.

[00:49:21] But it was very clear to me, no, this was a hundred percent isolated 

[00:49:24] Mike: incident. 

[00:49:25] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:49:26] Mike: Because we have a fine relationship. You know, we talk. You might be under that impression. Yeah, yeah. No, but the thing is, there was 

[00:49:32] Toliy: another thing that happened, but the thing is, 

[00:49:34] Mike: his, his his, his thing is, oh, go ahead. 

[00:49:37] Toliy: Yeah, I, I mean, I definitely remember one more thing that happened that was bring it off.

[00:49:40] Not, not that bad. Yeah. Bring it up. But it was in that realm. 

[00:49:42] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:43] Toliy: Say it. So, so do you remember another, another thing or No? No. Okay. I dunno if you remember, you were sitting here. Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:50] Mike: I 

[00:49:50] Toliy: don't know what you were doing. I don't know if you were like on your phone 

[00:49:52] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:49:53] Toliy: But, um, Jared called you for, to, to help you to, to ask for your help with something.

[00:49:58] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:59] Toliy: And you were kind of like showing no urgency to do so. Mm-hmm. And then he, he says to you, he is like, not now, Mike. Like, like, he was in a serious voice and he is like, not now, Mike. Yes. Right. And like, that's in that same like, like round. Well, I remember this when he did that. He, 

[00:50:15] Eldar: he was under, Mike was kind of maybe not taking it seriously.

[00:50:17] He thought that he's like, it's like before he thinks that he, uh, Jared thinks that Mike's playing around. Yes. And this time he's like, not right now, kind of thing. Right. Well, 

[00:50:26] Toliy: well, it was like, um, like, like what happened was that Jared had urgency to do something. I think it was something with the rollback boxes.

[00:50:34] Mm-hmm. You know, and maybe he's pressed against a timeline to do something. 

[00:50:37] Mike: Was this a couple days ago? 

[00:50:38] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, it was this week. Yeah. Yeah. Within the last two days or something. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You were sitting somewhere here and he was over there and he, he was calling you over Yeah. To help him with something.

[00:50:48] Mm-hmm. And then you were like, you like made like either like a joke or you were not showing urgency. And then Jared is in like a more serious tone was like, not now Mike. Yeah. Yeah. And then you got up and went to help him. That is in the 

[00:50:57] Eldar: same camp. That is correct. 

[00:50:58] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:50:59] Eldar: Yeah. I think that, uh, that's spot on, that dynamic right there of what we've experienced and what we witnessed is a good example of what could be flying under Mike's radar, not really seeing that Right.

[00:51:12] Or attributing it a hundred percent or correlating it Yeah. To something else. Right. Yeah. Uh, and not seeing that he's actually also as affecting of it. That's why he's posing the question that he is, the way he's posing it. Right. 

[00:51:26] Toliy: What, what do what, what do you mean po posing the question? See, 

[00:51:28] Eldar: the 

[00:51:28] Toliy: way Mike just asked the question, like, like in what?

[00:51:31] Like 

[00:51:32] Speaker 19: she said, how, how do you know it's me and not him?

[00:51:39] How do you know? Oh, okay.

[00:51:48] Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:51:51] Eldar: That's interesting. Yeah. You see? Yeah. No, that's, that's what you're saying. The symptoms and the, the correlation between those two things, then you not being able to then free yourself and stuff is because of these little things that keep adding up enough that like your mind can't even process, uh, something good or something freeing or something like that because you're preoccupied with dealing with this on the inside.

[00:52:15] Oh, a hundred percent. It's been, has been going on too rampant too much. So, Mike, you're saying that, you said you, your, your defense is that, uh, why is it me? Maybe it's him. 

[00:52:24] Mike: Yeah. No, I think he's having a moment because of his own personal, like his own upbringing. Mm-hmm. In this house, they probably labeled their food No.

[00:52:34] Fine, fine. And he thinks it's like, uh, he and he thinks it's okay to do this here, to, to like play that card here. 

[00:52:41] Eldar: No, no, no. Listen, if he's, he came, came here and said out loud to you or to everyone, said, Hey, this is community food or whatever. Mm-hmm. But then he's trying to take it back. You have to tell him.

[00:52:50] Mm-hmm. You, you have, I did. I You have to tell address that. Yeah. You just have to address that. 

[00:52:54] Mike: I told him, I said, I thought you, this is you sharing. 

[00:52:57] Eldar: Yeah. We're we're saying that like where that's coming from or the way it's coming across. Yeah. This might be not only the beginning, this just might, might be showing like the middle of something else.

[00:53:06] This might be going on. Mm-hmm. Where he's feeling mm-hmm. That it's okay to talk to you a very specific way. Yeah. That I get, you know what I'm saying? 

[00:53:13] Mike: Yeah. Because he has an attachment to this specific thing of like labeling the food. Well, well, and this's, how they do it in his house and his family. Well, have you, have you guys heard the way he talks about his relationship with his parents and stuff?

[00:53:25] No, for sure. He's accounting money between him and his mom. Like she's trying to rip him off for money. Yeah. That's, 

[00:53:31] Eldar: that's all fine. And Danny, yeah. But, uh, the professionalism mm-hmm. That is required here at least, or the, the dynamic that you've built or whatever mm-hmm. On respect should not be, uh, bleeding from his house to here.

[00:53:43] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:53:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:44] Toliy: Well, I agree with that. Yeah. But that, that, that, like, that's, that's not on him because like he, he, he's gonna like, like it's, it's like, um, it Yeah, yeah. Just comes down to like a respect thing, you know? I agree. But it's not like he could have whatever dynamics at home. Mm-hmm. And he's entitled to have those here, but if there was enough respect between you and him mm-hmm.

[00:54:07] Like, he wouldn't, he wouldn't like, like he's not gonna treat it his like, um, like, like he, he can't treat you how he treats like, I don't know, his mom or sister or like any, or like any, any, any, mm-hmm. Anyone that they have like a disrespective type of 

[00:54:21] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:54:22] Toliy: Like, relationship with. Yeah. And, and, and that like, um, like, like that, that can't be dependent on like his, like sickness for example.

[00:54:30] Mm-hmm. Or his prob Yeah. Problem. That, that would be dependent on What levels of respect have you guys like, established? Established, or not established? Correct. You 

[00:54:37] Eldar: know, so, you know, if you were to take a wild guess where this is coming from, he, he sounds like, uh, you allowed him to get comfortable to the point where now certain things goes, uh, 

[00:54:49] Toliy: into these types of realms.

[00:54:50] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:51] Toliy: It, the, the same example there is like, there was times where like Harris would disrespect me 

[00:54:56] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:54:56] Toliy: And like say or do certain shit. Mm-hmm. But he does not do that, for example, to Elton. 

[00:55:00] Mike: No. 

[00:55:01] Toliy: Right. But it could, but it could be the same. Like Harris is Harris and he has the same problems. Mm-hmm. But there's a reason why he talks a different way, but ELD, for example, or with me or with you or whoever.

[00:55:11] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Or for example with Tara. Mm-hmm. Right. Um. 

[00:55:17] Eldar: I, I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. You know, but you're gonna find it, this conversation No. A a very specific thing that can be born from this. Yeah. The same. I'm not looking for that. The Yeah. It's the same thing that's been born for a very long time for you and other people 

[00:55:33] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:55:33] Eldar: Where you stepped over certain boundaries. Mm-hmm. And the next thing you know, you banning each other. 

[00:55:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:39] Eldar: Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, I have countless examples. Sure. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That I think this might be just the beginning. 

[00:55:45] Toliy: Yeah. And that, and that also like the, like that type of thing that, like that type of example.

[00:55:50] Mm-hmm. Like that has a hundred percent happened between like you and your family, for example. 

[00:55:54] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:54] Toliy: But it's, it's bleeding into something else. 

[00:55:57] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:57] Toliy: Because it's a learned behavior. It's a, like a, uh, observed, like, um, like it's, it's, it's a very normalized, like, outcome, you know? 

[00:56:06] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:06] Toliy: Like, okay. Yeah.

[00:56:08] Like in that scenario, I like, like, like I definitely didn't feel like you set up for yourself where you're like, you like, um, yeah. I felt that you were guilty. Address it properly. 

[00:56:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:56:16] Toliy: Mm-hmm. I felt that you were guilty. 

[00:56:17] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:18] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I felt like you lost 

[00:56:20] Mike: Yeah. Something. 

[00:56:21] Eldar: Yeah. There.

[00:56:21] Yeah. You know what I mean? And I'm not sure if you want that. No, I definitely don't. Everything you've been working for, right? Yeah. Can just go like this mm-hmm. In the slip of a moment because you misstep somewhere. 

[00:56:31] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:32] Eldar: Yeah. He's gonna lose all respect mm-hmm. Uh, of you. Yeah. All respect. 

[00:56:36] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:37] Eldar: And then you're gonna be like, oh, it's him.

[00:56:38] You're gonna point the finger. No, no. Yeah, 

[00:56:40] Mike: for sure. 

[00:56:41] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? No. You know,

[00:56:47] Toliy: so. Yeah. Yeah. He, he walked away trying to like, like, leave you with like a lesson. Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:52] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:56:52] Toliy: Like, he's like, going forward, if you wanna like, like it, like it, it would be nice if you asked before you ate someone else's food. Mm-hmm. He said it respectfully. Yeah. But it was like a, like a scolding thing.

[00:57:02] Yeah. Yeah. It was like a lesson that he was trying to teach, teach you. Mm-hmm. That like, 

[00:57:05] Mike: yeah. 

[00:57:06] Toliy: Like, it, it, like, in the future, this is what you, you should do, you know? 

[00:57:10] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:11] Toliy: Like, you don't know. 

[00:57:12] Eldar: Yeah. Like you are this guy who just steals people's candy. Yeah. You know? 

[00:57:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:57:18] Eldar: Yeah. So I, I think that, yeah, this is, was a perfect example, I think, and, and those things where it's like kind of flew under your radar, you kind of like, oh, whatever, it's not a big deal.

[00:57:26] Mike: No, I definitely felt like not pleasant. You did. I felt like what, uh, like what the fuck are we doing over here? That's what I'm saying. You coming at me like this is, I was completely like shocked by it. Yeah. You know? 

[00:57:36] Eldar: Yeah. The way he's talking to me over this, you know, like I said, I think it's, that's just that poked its head, and I'm glad I totally remember the other incident.

[00:57:44] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:45] Eldar: Is that he's already felt that this is the same kind of camp where he's right. Mm-hmm. Is okay with telling you mm-hmm. How to be. Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:57:56] Eldar: I mean, that's, then that's clear. Yeah. To me it's clear indication of like something somewhere mm-hmm. Down the line has happened mm-hmm. Where two individuals are speaking a very specific way and this is what they're breeding.

[00:58:10] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:58:11] Toliy: But, uh, but, but again, like, like you, you said, like, for example, like that was a hundred percent an isolated, like, like incident, right? Mm-hmm. Which, which I think is like, um, like I think it's all overall it's bad to think that way because then you're not accounting for like, the things that you're not like, like, uh, aware of.

[00:58:31] Yeah. Yeah. Like a, 

[00:58:33] Mike: yeah. No, I've never felt him respect me like that. I don't think he was disrespectful. I thought it was 

[00:58:37] Eldar: disrespectful. No. Well, well, well, yeah, but I'm like, the way he came across, if it is true, that's what's happened. Mm-hmm. He was nice about it. Yeah. You know what I, 

[00:58:44] Toliy: did you think that he was disrespectful?

[00:58:46] Like that, that, that, that, that example that I'm, I'm bringing up. 

[00:58:49] Mike: Well, the example is like not really complete. I'm not really sure if we're talking about like the same incident. 

[00:58:54] Toliy: No, it's the same. It's the same thing. Like, you like him, like the way, like he was frustrated and he said, Mike, not now like Mike.

[00:59:03] Like not, not now is something that like, that's referring to. Yeah. You tell like a little kid that like, Hey, we're, we're not playing Right. Right now. Like, this is serious. Oh, yeah, yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Like he said, Mike, not now. Yeah. Which means that like, Hey Mike, like I don't have time to fuck around with you.

[00:59:18] Yeah. Mm-hmm. You need to get serious and you need to come over here now. Yeah. Like, 

[00:59:21] Eldar: he's saying 

[00:59:21] Toliy: that 

[00:59:21] Eldar: you don't know how to read what's, what's serious and what's not. Like you, which No, no, but he said, Mike, 

[00:59:26] Mike: can you help me? And I know what happened. Um, but it's because he was frustrated as hell. He was finished.

[00:59:33] Mm-hmm. And you 

[00:59:34] Eldar: didn't read it 

[00:59:34] Mike: right? No. No. But I can't read it off one word. Mike. I need your help. Yeah. Mike, can you come here? I can't read off one word like that. All right. I can't. Mm-hmm. Okay. I'm not saying that maybe you guys can, I can't. I don't have that skill. 

[00:59:47] Eldar: Well, no, I'm saying that what, what's coming out of it is what's coming out of it, and at the end of the day No, I agree.

[00:59:53] Mike: I don't 

[00:59:53] Eldar: like it. It's, it's, it's, I don't like it. If your communication style, then I think that you need to then pull back a little bit. A hundred percent and be a little bit more on the professional level rather than be on the friendly level. Because a hundred percent, that's what do, if this is an example of Yeah.

[01:00:06] Of how you've managed your, your words or chose the words that you did before mm-hmm. Landed you in that sticky situation. I'm telling you that this is the beginning of that. 

[01:00:14] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:16] Eldar: I see it. This is clear as day to me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I see it too. And I'm glad that totally brought that example. 'cause it is in that same camp.

[01:00:22] Mm-hmm. It is a hundred percent in the same camp. 

[01:00:24] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:25] Eldar: You know? 

[01:00:25] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:27] Eldar: Yeah. So there you go. Mm-hmm. There you go. These are some of the examples that can just kinda like, well, whatever. Uh, like we, if we didn't, like how many of those examples can potentially be that we, we didn't hear where, we weren't at the office at all that happened.

[01:00:44] Mm-hmm. Right. Do you have any of those? No. You see, nothing stands out. No. It's not supposed to. 

[01:00:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:49] Eldar: No. Because you creating it. 

[01:00:50] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:51] Toliy: Yeah. And, and it's also, it's, it's also, um, like you, you don't see it because it's nor it's normalized behavior. Mm-hmm. Right. Now if like, like, like if Jared needed your help and you didn't like right away respond and he smacks you upside the head.

[01:01:09] Mm-hmm. Like, there's no way you could forget that. Right. Like, that would be like, holy shit. Like this is crazy. Mm-hmm. Like, this is over. Yeah. Right. That would be like in your face. It's o over. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, but like, those are again, like the more obvious ones, but there's a bunch of normalized di disrespects and stuff like that, um, that get thrown around.

[01:01:27] And like, I mean, like, um, like we, we, we can all observe these normalized, like, like for example, like, uh, your mom is mad at your dad right now, right? Mm-hmm. Because there may be have been a big disrespect that's like very much in her face. Yeah. But I, but like, even when I come over for haircuts, I hear like they'll disrespect each other, or like, uh, like they'll the, you know, like they, they have a bunch of these small disrespects that build up to the big disrespect.

[01:01:54] Yeah. Yeah. But they're not like acknowledging it in those moments, even though they are disrespecting each other. Right. Or like, like, like, I remember your dad saying that he's gonna make some food, and then like, your mom is like, you know, he, she might say something to like, make, make sure you do it right this time.

[01:02:09] You know? Or like, 'cause last time, like, you didn't cut it up correctly and it Yeah. You know, or like, they'll, they'll mm-hmm. They'll, they'll just have these moments and like, all of our families have these things where like, it's a normalized way of communicating. And my mom confirms this, 

[01:02:22] Eldar: and my mom confirms this.

[01:02:23] I say, ma, what are you, what are you saying? Oh no, we talk like this all the time. We love each other. Yeah. Like, what? Mm-hmm. Yeah. How's this acceptable? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. They've 

[01:02:32] Toliy: normalized. Yeah. 

[01:02:33] Eldar: Disrespect. 

[01:02:34] Toliy: Yeah. And, and you've normalized those behaviors that you've learned mm-hmm. In your life as well.

[01:02:39] Mm-hmm. Which is why the, they're like the, like the bunch of the little ones you don't see. And maybe even the ones that are larger, like you may not understand the impact that like it has. Mm-hmm. Like, until you do learn that, and then you are hypersensitive and then you understand like every little action, every little word over time, like the actual impact it has.

[01:02:59] Mike: So how should I have handled the situation from earlier this week? The one, two days ago? I should have said, yo, who the fuck you think you're talking to? Oh, you think it's okay to call 

[01:03:08] Eldar: me like this? Well, you think that's, that's fine. 

[01:03:11] Mike: Oh, no, I don't. I mean, I mean, come on Mike. No, 

[01:03:13] Eldar: but how should I handle it?

[01:03:15] Well, you'll have to give context as to what's going on. Like, why is this happening? Right? Yeah. And then kinda like, hey, like, okay, cool. Like, you know, let's, yeah. So come on. That's 

[01:03:22] Mike: why I'm asking you guys how should I handle it. He, he was unloading the boxes. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. And the boxes broke. Mm-hmm. And they spilled all over the thing.

[01:03:32] Mm-hmm. All over the street. Yeah. Maybe eight boxes. Mm-hmm. All the flyers all over the place. Yeah. It's a hundred degrees outside. Yeah. Nobody's around. He came to always busy on the phone, Tara. Mm-hmm. He's like, I don't want to ask Tara. 

[01:03:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:03:44] Mike: Okay. So I, after we came back mm-hmm. He wanted me to help him with stuff.

[01:03:47] He wanted to tell me what happened. Yeah. And, and that's the story. At least that's it. I think that's what I'm connecting. 'cause he was very frustrated. He was exhausted. He was all wet, you know, 'cause of, and you were aware of this? No, he called me in to tell me about what happened, Uhhuh. And that's, that's, and he told you and then you didn't take it seriously?

[01:04:08] No, that's not so, 

[01:04:09] Eldar: see, like, I don't know the sequence of events. 

[01:04:11] Mike: The sequence of events is we came back from the walk Uhhuh and he start and he's like, Mike, can you come here? And I'm, you know, just came back from the walk. Probably sitting here, whatever, Uhhuh. And then, yeah, we went for the walk. While we were in the walk, this whole thing exploded.

[01:04:26] Mm-hmm. He dropped all the flyers, all the boxes, whatever. Okay. You know, I, first of all before that, I helped him unload 40 boxes for another person. 

[01:04:33] Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:33] Okay. Yeah. We did it together. 

[01:04:35] Yeah. 

[01:04:35] Then I left and it was the guy, Giovanni mm-hmm. Who was there. So like, yo, these two guys got it, you know? Mm-hmm. In that process of him bringing the boxes in mm-hmm.

[01:04:44] The whole bunch of boxes broke. Yeah. Everything broke. Everything spilled all over. 

[01:04:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:04:48] Mike: So I didn't know that I come back. Mm-hmm. This is one I was like, oh, I dunno, a hundred degrees out, you know, I come back with you from the walk and I'm sitting here after, and then he comes in, he is like, Mike, I need your help.

[01:05:01] And then he said that whatever line he said, right, not now. Mm-hmm. You know, I was being like, funny, you know? Mm-hmm. And, uh, and that's what happened. Mm-hmm. So how should I have handled it? If he came in and he said was disrespectful? 

[01:05:15] Eldar: I don't know. I don't know if I, like I said, if I have it on tape or something, then I'll be like, okay, cool.

[01:05:20] That's what happened. You maybe did not read mm-hmm. Or did not feel mm-hmm. I would say his pain at that moment, maybe. Yeah. And you didn't take it seriously. 

[01:05:28] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:29] Eldar: Right. That's what just, I'm just going off of the reaction. Maybe 

[01:05:32] Toliy: the example of that is like when, like, um, when like Kat was short with you to, to like hurry up.

[01:05:38] Mm-hmm. Like to like the, like we don't have time. Remember when you guys were driving Yeah. To like the doctor, like, like you, you felt a particular person with a particular attachment, acting a particular way. Yeah. So you completely changed course Yeah. As to like, what, what, what was going on. Yeah. Because you, you, you like read that like, like how she was talking in her time.

[01:05:59] Yeah. But there was nothing, 

[01:06:00] Mike: there was nothing that happened. Well, all he did was he came and he called me. Yeah. And to go help. I had no contact with the box spilled. Yeah. I only found that after the fact. Yeah. So all for him saying, Mike, can you help? He asked me that a hundred times in like a week to help him uhhuh.

[01:06:14] You know what I mean? 

[01:06:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:15] Mike: Then when I found out, obviously I helped him, I told him, Hey, don't worry about it. We'll fix it. Like we resolved it. It's not that serious. Like, okay. 

[01:06:22] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I think like, like there, there, it's like, yeah, because I don't, I don't remember like if that's the, I think I remember him like quickly, like rushing and like, he was almost like running in Yeah.

[01:06:32] Panting probably. Um, but like, yeah. May, may it be it's with like how he asked you or how he said it. Mm-hmm. Like, there's probably like different, like he, he could say like, um, like, Hey Mike, I need your, your help. But there's like different ways obviously in different, like temper and tones that, that Sure.

[01:06:50] That you, you could say that. Yeah. I don't remember which, which wi like how he did it. 

[01:06:54] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:54] Toliy: Yeah. Um, right, because like, I feel like if he came in with like, kind of like a lazy, jokey like energy mm-hmm. And like, you threw that back at him. Like, I, I don't think like anything could happen from that like that, that, that was like, like two people ma matching each other.

[01:07:08] But if he like, runs down the stairs and you can hear like the, uh, like the shoe squeak and you're like, I need your help right now, for example. Mm-hmm. Like that obviously make, makes like someone feel a different way. Mm-hmm. But I don't remember how he, um, 

[01:07:21] Eldar: no. I, I think I, I get it now. I get what's going on.

[01:07:23] If the, if the ans the question was, I mean the remark was not now Mike. Right. Then maybe Mike has normalized Right. Responding to him in a jokey funny way when his requests are are serious. Are serious. 

[01:07:39] Speaker 20: Yes. 

[01:07:39] Eldar: Not serious for him. Serious. No. When there's requests, when he's constantly asking Mike for stuff.

[01:07:45] Yes. Right. That's another thing we gotta talk about also. We can talk about 

[01:07:48] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

[01:07:48] Eldar: That yeah, that's a good point too. Okay. Yeah. Where it's an ongoing thing of requests and Mike is always throwing jokes or whatever. 

[01:07:57] Yeah. You 

[01:07:58] know what I mean? It's like a normalized kind of banter that is happening within those requests.

[01:08:02] A trolling banter. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Right. It's normalized that like Yeah. Jared already knows in his brain, in his head that like, when I come to Mike, I ask for help. He first gonna throw a joke at me, a second joke, he fucks around with me. He fucks around with me first. Right? Yeah. So when that happened again, he's like, Hey, this is not right.

[01:08:19] Mm-hmm. This is what he felt like inside, like, yo, that right now, you know what I mean? Because that is already normalized. You've conditioned that in him. Mm. That's what's happening. 

[01:08:28] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:08:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:08:29] Mike: Okay. That's, I, that's possible for sure. 

[01:08:31] Eldar: And I, I don't necessarily think that it's good. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[01:08:35] Sure. And I think that is also then, uh, you need to, you need to ask yourself mm-hmm. And think about whether or not he's too dependent on you, on your help. Mm-hmm. And not self-sufficient like I asked you before. Mm-hmm. Because I've noticed that he's asking for a lot of the stuff. Mm-hmm. A lot. Like he's not like automated.

[01:08:54] Mm-hmm. A lot of the times he still comes to you and asking for this, this, this or that. Yeah. We spoke about this stuff. You know what I mean? And I think that, you know, uh, I mean, I don't know if you're getting annoyed by it or not, but No, I'm not. You know, but I understand what he's going through, you know, but, uh, you may be mixing in little jokes and banter there.

[01:09:12] Right. Um, and he's being conditioned in such a way where like, okay, Mike's like this, Mike's like not serious, or whatever. Mike's making jokes. Mm-hmm. Um, and this is why this is resulting in what it's resulting. 

[01:09:24] Mike: Yeah. Like, it's very possible, you know, but I don't want this to continue. Well, especially after the thing he just did today.

[01:09:31] Eldar: Well, if you, like I said, if they've, if you, if you, if we actually evaluated this properly mm-hmm. Right. And you're saying that Yeah, you guys are spot on and I agree. I see this how like my pattern of behavior have conditioned him to respond a certain type of way, then you definitely wanna do something about it.

[01:09:46] Especially if don't like it. No, I mean if you 

[01:09:47] Mike: guys saying that I'm joking with him, I definitely don't want to give him the impression that No, 

[01:09:51] Eldar: I'm, no, I'm shooting in the dark here. Sure. I see some of the jokes. I definitely see you like trying to make things light of it. 

[01:09:56] Mike: Yeah. I'm not trying to like think.

[01:09:57] Yeah. We have prob we have, there's problem shit's like something, things break. Like the seal machine wasn't working. I'm like, yo, he's having a fit. Yeah. 'cause this is who he is. This is how he 

[01:10:06] Eldar: operates. Of course, 

[01:10:07] Mike: I'm not gonna allow him to bring me into his world, so I joke about it, you know. No, for sure.

[01:10:11] But for him it's probably creating the wrong impression 'cause he's not able to process this. Correct. That's 

[01:10:14] Eldar: right. 

[01:10:15] Mike: So we can have a serious business relationship. That's fine with me, you know? 

[01:10:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:18] Mike: I want it to be like a, you know. 

[01:10:20] Eldar: No, I, I think unpleasant, but I think that No, I, I don't think you have to throw a fit here yourself and say that we can just have a business relationship here.

[01:10:27] I don't think you can have that either. Mm-hmm. Like, you just don't have the stamina for that. Yeah. You're not a serious business guy. Yeah. So how can you like, say like, oh, we're just gonna have a business relationship? Well, I mean, I have to work on the way I like, you know. No, I think you have to figure out the, the, so the middle spot between joking and, and serious.

[01:10:43] This is what you need to look for. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? If you're saying that, look, a lot of times Tara or Jared or whoever in the office can be very too serious. And I can blend in a little bit of joke here and there to soften things up. I think you should definitely do that. I don't think you should take that off, but I think that maybe you pressing too much on gas on that.

[01:11:02] Right. And you are not distinguishing between when things are pretty serious and need a little bit more attention. Your attention Yeah. Versus when they're not. 

[01:11:09] Mike: Well I, to me, like I said again, and I, and I, I'm could be biased obviously, I don't feel like I joke with him every time, but I definitely do joke a lot when he, when to make a light of the situation because he's trying to like throw fit Tara's trying to throw fit all the people who were.

[01:11:24] Trying to throw fit. 

[01:11:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:25] Mike: To me it's not that serious, you know? Yeah. But do I feel like I always make a joke every time he comes to ask for help? No, I don't think so. But again, could I be wrong m maybe? No, 

[01:11:36] Eldar: no. But it sounds like you're overdoing it and you're not being mindful of when, um, when it goes overboard.

[01:11:44] Yeah, it's possible for sure. 

[01:11:46] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 'cause also, like you wouldn't 

[01:11:48] Eldar: get these results is what I'm saying. Like, these results come from a very specific place, not now, Mike. Mm-hmm. Think about that. Mm-hmm. Not now, Mike. Mm-hmm. What does that tell you? You've conditioned something 

[01:12:01] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:12:02] Eldar: That is not backfiring.

[01:12:04] Speaker 19: Yeah. Uh,

[01:12:13] yeah. I think 

[01:12:14] Toliy: that you, you, you can also like, I think it's easier to joke with people probably like an ongoing basis more when they have like an explanation more about like, like where they have like repetitive explanation as to like, what, what you're talking about. Because like o obviously those situations mm-hmm.

[01:12:30] Are probably inherently not serious that are, that those people are being mm-hmm. Serious with of course. Right. But to them, they're serious. Right. And Jared, I definitely is like, he's like a get it done, like, he's like a, yeah. Like, like, you can't move, move on. I know, right? Yeah. Like, like he, he is, he is just like that.

[01:12:48] Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. He's like a very task oriented Sure. Like individual. Mm-hmm. So, so, so to him, they're obviously like a lot more serious and a lot more important than like to you. Mm-hmm. But I think that like, um, in those ex in, in those, like, it, it takes time out obviously to condition and to explain that.

[01:13:05] But you can repetitively and over and over again, like explain that and like ingrain it to him so that he then maybe start slowly over time, might react differently to them. Mm-hmm. And that's probably done with like a combination of maybe, maybe like some trolling and then some. And then a lot of education and information because like a lot of help.

[01:13:26] Yeah. Like for example, lots the times I observed this whole, the time. Right. Like Tara always asks, for example, Jared, like, how long, how many minutes you have left on lunch? And Jared will be like, I got seven minutes left. 

[01:13:38] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:13:39] Toliy: Really? Yeah. Yeah. I've 

[01:13:41] Eldar: never heard this before. Ask 

[01:13:41] Toliy: him the time because like she needs something done.

[01:13:44] And I know that Jared is also serious about his lunch and he like, he knows the time. Yeah. He's sitting right here and Tara will ask him, Jared, how many minutes you have left on lunch? And Jared will say, I got seven minutes left. And then she'll wait seven minutes, then ask him to do a task. 

[01:13:58] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:13:59] Toliy: We we're like, like, okay, if I'm like eating here or if I'm relaxing, like if she needs something from me, like I'm definitely like, she definitely does not and never asked me that.

[01:14:07] Ever. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not one time. Yeah. Are you on lunch or are you like Yeah, like, you know, are you like that 

[01:14:12] Eldar: this 

[01:14:13] Toliy: is an example of 

[01:14:13] Eldar: a very specific dynamic Yeah. That two people have built with one another. Mm-hmm. And they're sticking by it. Yeah. 

[01:14:18] Toliy: And, and, and oftentimes like, like some sometimes Tara's on lunch and I'll ask her something.

[01:14:23] Yeah. And like, I definitely see that she's probably on lunch, but like, I don't even think about that dynamic, about like, Hey, like don't ask a question now. 'cause someone's on their own time or Yeah. Whatever. Mm-hmm. She just responds to me saying, yeah, I'll, I'll do it after, after, after lunch. And then I'm like, okay.

[01:14:36] Yeah. But she's never like, like, hey, like, can't you see I'm eating? Or like mm-hmm. Can't you see I'm at lunch? Or like, yeah. Like, we definitely don't, don't, don't have that. But she's also like, when she's on lunch, she's like doing her thing. 

[01:14:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:47] Toliy: And like, that's kind of it, where like maybe for us it's like blended.

[01:14:50] Where like, like, like what do you mean? Like, you're like, I got a question for you. What you want me to wait seven minutes to ask you? For example? Yeah. Like, like imagine like that, you know, so like Yeah. Like I see that all the time. 

[01:15:03] Mike: Yeah. No, that I know all the time. He's very strict and regimented in his like, uh, yes.

[01:15:06] He's 

[01:15:06] Toliy: like a regimented schedule. Yes, of course. He like, he needs to have things planned and, and that's where his 

[01:15:11] Eldar: piece is, that's where his dynamic lies, right? Yeah. And obviously if you blend in a lot too much jokes and this and that. Yeah. It throws 'em off. 

[01:15:19] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:15:20] Eldar: You know what I mean? Uh, and then like I said, like, you know, you should be mindful of it if you don't like it.

[01:15:27] Mike: No, I definitely don't. If you don't like 

[01:15:28] Eldar: the results of what's, what are you getting now? Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:30] Mike: Then 

[01:15:30] Eldar: you ought to be more mindful as to how you're coming across and what's going on. 

[01:15:33] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:34] Eldar: You know, but your first reaction was like, oh, how do you know it's me and not him? If you don't see that it's you that you contributing factor to this and you got like, totally said, you got another thing coming.

[01:15:44] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:44] Eldar: You know? 

[01:15:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:15:45] Toliy: But, but, but it's also like, that's a natural, like, like, like when, when you asked that question, I, I didn't even catch onto it when you said El Elder, um mm-hmm. Said, said it to me, um, like, like that dynamic of what's happening there in that moment. Mm-hmm. It's like, um, like that, that's your automatic, for example, defense mechanism.

[01:16:09] Sure. To like foresee like, hey, like, like why are we talking about my responsibility? How do we know it's not someone else's? Right. For example, like someone else's at fault here. Mm-hmm. Right. So like, well, that's easy. 

[01:16:18] Eldar: He didn't come in with these types of responses. This is a new phenomenon. I just noticed this today.

[01:16:23] You know what I mean? Like you said that the one couple of days ago, but this one today was very specific to me. Mm-hmm. It was like a red flag. I was like, whoa. Yeah. I've never heard this from Jared. Yeah. I've never felt this way before. Yeah. So it's like, the kid's been here for over three months now. You know what I mean?

[01:16:37] Like Yeah. This is not a, like a recurring repeating behavior that I've noticed and like, oh shit, no, this happened today. Yeah. You know what I mean? It finally grew and it showed its head. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know what I mean? Something's changed, something's going on. There's, there's, there's a cause here. Yeah.

[01:16:54] You know what I mean? 

[01:16:55] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. But the, the, the only point I'm trying to make is that those like defense mechanism, they're automatic, habitual things that like we do to try to try to like, like, um, try to like figure out like a situation. 'cause like we obviously in those moments, like when someone's putting blame on somebody, someone's putting blame on me.

[01:17:14] Like it's an, it's right away. It's first an attack and then you need to like, and then what's your. Automatic, like defense mechanism is, is like, you know, obviously like the, the more ideal one is to like, obviously like ask questions and figure out like what's going on. But most of the time for most people it's to like defend yourself.

[01:17:31] Obviously there, but why do you feel the need? You have to tell 'em this? What? Well, well, well, because like, when this happens, like, like oftentimes, like you don't realize that like this, this is what, what you're doing or like why you're doing it. Um, no, I underst it understood from unconscious, like a thing.

[01:17:50] Mike: I understood it, but I, but, um, you know, afterwards I understood that it's not, it's not, obviously it's not him. Everything is me. But, 

[01:17:57] Eldar: and, and the thing is, the thing is Yeah. The reason why I'm saying that. Like why you throwing his raft at him? Yeah. Is that because I don't, I don't think he needs this raft.

[01:18:04] I think he needs to understand that he is in power of everything that's going on. You know what I mean? No, that's, he needs to be empowered to say, yo, my words, my actions, my intention, everything. No, 

[01:18:13] Toliy: that, that, yeah. But I, I, he needs to deduce that for himself. No, no, no. For sure. But I'm saying is that like, the reason why the defense is happening is because like, like if, like, it's very obvious if you were supposed to deliver something and you're 30 minutes late, like you are late, for example.

[01:18:29] Like there's, there's black and white, you didn't bring it, but whatever. Or you forgot like that, that that's more black and white, where you're not gonna like, defend yourself as much. Right. But if you're defending the, the situation and feeling like you're being attacked, it's you not, not, not like understanding it.

[01:18:45] Sure. Which just why it's happening. Yeah. I like, I wasn't trying to like throw like a rafter, like reduce responsibility, like Yeah. Like at all. But like, I think it's important to understand like, why is that kind of defense happening to begin with? It's usually happening from when something is happening that you don't agree with.

[01:19:01] Sure. Right? Sure. And obviously like he's asking that question because he doesn't agree with the Yeah. But het continue 

[01:19:07] Eldar: following up with that question. He understood it, I guess, right? Yeah. No, that yes, he understood that the power is within him. I understand that, bro. But, but, um. He has a lot more control than you think.

[01:19:19] He knows that I know know, but, and I think he needs to be reminded of that. Yeah. So he can control his own reality. No, I definitely 

[01:19:24] Toliy: felt like he, he understood it, but the habitual reply, like, like, like show shows that he initially didn't, right? Yes. Yes. 

[01:19:33] Eldar: But 

[01:19:33] Toliy: nonetheless. 

[01:19:34] Eldar: Yeah, sure. But yeah, we just raising awareness.

[01:19:37] Yes. Now it's the choices on him. Yes. You know what I'm saying? That's on him Now, how he wants to turn this, if I keep hearing the way he fuck the way Jared's talking or whatever, I'll fucking know whether or not he's shitting the bed. Yeah. I'll know right away. Yeah. You, you will too. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

[01:19:50] My ears are now acute to the shit. Yeah. You know what I mean? And his ears are too. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Are you kidding me? 

[01:19:56] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:19:57] Eldar: No, normal person's gonna want this type of dynamic to continue. 

[01:20:01] Mike: No. No chance. I don't want this. You know what I mean? Yeah. This is a wild interaction. He said it right 

[01:20:04] Eldar: away. Yeah.

[01:20:05] There's a wild 

[01:20:06] Mike: interaction. Like I, yeah. If this was like, uh, yeah. How I usually run, I'd be like, yo, this don't come to work on Monday. Like Yeah. Who the fuck you talking to? Yeah. I would be like, I'm furious that he came up to me in, in this kind of tone. Yeah. Over this kind of thing. Obviously I'm furious at him at first, but I'm also furious of myself because you know.

[01:20:25] Yeah. You know, I'm my fucking self. I'm tired, you know, from this interaction from all the other stresses and I'm just trying to fucking, you know, uh, yeah. It's fucking annoying, bro. 

[01:20:35] Eldar: You know? Yeah. Yeah. And it's gonna continue to be this way and continue to be annoying up until you take the final stance and move the way you need to move in accordance and then focus for a long period of time.

[01:20:46] Speaker 19: Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:48] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:53] You know, you can be going for three months and everything is good and you're happy with the person, with the dynamic, with the relationship and all this stuff. You know what I mean? And you don't extract anything from it. Right. You don't empower yourself and the next thing you know, like this happens and you're like, holy shit, what the fuck?

[01:21:08] Mm-hmm. Now you have a fucking fire that you need to put out. Yeah. Instead of fucking being, getting to a point where like, you are being a good leader, you were doing well. You know what I'm saying? Like, and now what, you know what I'm saying? 

[01:21:21] Mike: Yeah. That's why I a, I, that's why my first response is like, yo, I was under the impression that I was doing the right thing by him.

[01:21:29] You know? Mm-hmm. Like, I didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong as far as, again, this is how I felt. This is the truth. I don't know, obviously well, but my own testimony. Yeah. I felt like I was there, I was helping, I was supporting him. I was talking to him, being like, you know, reminding him that he can ask for help and stuff like that, and thought we were getting to a place where we have like some kind of good thing up, up until you stole his candy up until I stole his candy.

[01:21:53] You understand? Do you understand this? Oh, that, 

[01:21:54] Eldar: this just shows that like, you have not installed enough in him that like, yo, my man, if you put this anything in your, in our fucking fridge, that's a community pot. 

[01:22:02] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:22:02] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Just like you say, Hey, we see all these snacks right here.

[01:22:06] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:22:07] Eldar: You're free to have them. 

[01:22:08] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:22:09] Eldar: You see this stuff right here? The drink? Yeah. You're free to have them. Yeah. See this water right here? Yeah. It's a community water. 

[01:22:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:22:14] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Like if that wasn't established. Yeah. Right. That dynamic. 

[01:22:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:22:19] Eldar: Something else is gonna be established.

[01:22:21] That's clear that he wants to buy to you with his No, the thing is, 

[01:22:24] Mike: yeah. It's crazy because there was an established conversation when he first came. 

[01:22:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:22:28] Mike: I was like, Hey Jared, this is the office, this is the coffee machine. Yeah. Help you solve this is this. Yeah. You know, this is the, uh, uh, fridge, you know, like, and sometimes you might need gave that stuff, bring those reminders, you know, and then he didn't drink coffee for three months.

[01:22:41] Yeah. And then all of a sudden he started drinking coffee. Yeah. And drinking and, and or, and buying milk. You know? I'm like, alright, that's cool. Like, I don't give a fuck. Like, okay. And let him let the kid enjoy. Yeah. You know, but, and then now he's, you know, yeah. He didn't gimme, he said, Hey, like going forward, I wanna be drinking coffee, you know?

[01:22:56] Yeah. Do you want me to pay for these? Or like, yeah. What the fuck? You know? 

[01:23:00] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you need to provide those reminders then. Yeah. If you start seeing this kind of shit, like, you know what I mean? Yeah. If you clearly were in the right here, you clearly say like, yo, just FYI, this is, this is what it is.

[01:23:12] You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. It's not that serious. Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[01:23:16] Mike: Yeah. For, for him it is that serious though. 

[01:23:18] Eldar: Exactly. Because he already planned that seven minutes. Is that serious? 

[01:23:21] Mike: Because he already planned what he's gonna do with that. That correct? With that, with that candy for the rest of the That's right.

[01:23:26] Its shelf life. 

[01:23:26] Eldar: That's right. 

[01:23:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:23:28] Eldar: I, I actually looked at it. I was gonna open it myself, bro. I told you this. Yeah. Because I was looking for something sweet before I asked the chocolate. You guys said that chocolate's right there, you know what I mean? Like mm-hmm. Whatever chocolate I was gonna find, even if it was in the fridge, I was gonna open it.

[01:23:40] Yeah. I was gonna ask who's is it? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. You know, so, so if that's the case, you need to properly check that individual or remind them mm-hmm. Of like, yo, like there's no such thing. Like, you, you could throw some shit in here. Like, yo, it's gonna be a community milk.

[01:23:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:23:56] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[01:23:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:23:57] Eldar: They're not gonna fucking portion the shit out for each individual. Yeah. Whos what, you know, it's, that's just ridiculous. 

[01:24:03] Mike: How do, so how do, how should I like, uh, you know, deal with the situation? We can 

[01:24:07] Eldar: deal with the situation later. Later. Okay. Don't worry about this shit.

[01:24:10] You know, the whole point of this is to show that these losses right here mm-hmm. Will carry on to the wall. Or somewhere else where you want to thrive, where you want to have fun. Mm-hmm. Right. They're gonna, they're gonna bleed into it. Yeah. This does not give you stress. It did. This gave me crazy stress.

[01:24:30] This is a loss. Yes, of course. You know what I'm saying? You just fell off the wall, you don't know how to do it, you know? Mm-hmm. But in this case, you do know how to do it we'll. Correct the behavior. Yeah. You'll correct it too. You'll be aware and you'll, you'll be fine and you'll win over time. 

[01:24:44] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:44] Eldar: But some corrected behavior is gonna be needed on your part.

[01:24:47] How, how, how do I, 

[01:24:48] Mike: um, yeah, like, um, what you guys are saying of the winning and the, the losses and the wins. Yeah. Not being able to like, um, extract from them. 

[01:24:57] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Well, win them first. Win them, and then extract from them. You know, when you win in those exchanges, though, a while ago, I don't know, six months ago, a year ago, you sat down with your family, uh, and you had a conversation mm-hmm.

[01:25:10] And you had a really productive, good conversation. Yeah. You came out of it on top. 

[01:25:14] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:15] Eldar: Do you remember that feeling? Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Right. I'm not saying you're gonna have to come out of every, out of every conversation with a damn bang. 

[01:25:22] Toliy: Mm-hmm. No, no. But, but for example, like if you came out of a, like, like you, you, you can come outta that like, conversation with a bang.

[01:25:29] Mm-hmm. But like, like you need to be like an immovable force in, in that realm. Mm-hmm. To be consistent enough to like re like to reprogram the other people's Yeah. Ways of acting towards you, for example, or like speaking mm-hmm. Towards you and. The most dangerous people, obviously like will. Oh. Like if you slip a little bit, that's it.

[01:25:53] That, that's it. No, I know. So you have to be like a, like vigilant as fuck. Like May, maybe you had that good meeting and it was like, uh, like a sick moment. But I guarantee you afterwards there was prob probably like Yeah. Little things that happened 

[01:26:07] Speaker 20: Sure. 

[01:26:07] Toliy: To then put them more, like, give them more confidence.

[01:26:10] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And push their agenda. Yeah. Like, uh, more they got comfortable with you again. Yeah, 

[01:26:14] Eldar: yeah, yeah. Well, of course I don't get comfortable with my mom, bro. 

[01:26:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:18] Eldar: But every time I come right, there's a lapse of ju a lapse of time that passes, you know, and then I'm like, who am I talking to here?

[01:26:27] Mm-hmm. She's again, slandering me. She's again, talking shit about me. Mm-hmm. Again, disrespecting me. I'm like, yo, what the fuck? Mm-hmm. What the fuck happened? Yeah. Just time happened and my mom happened. Yeah. Her life happened to my mom, and my mom happened to life, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And now she's, she's like, I'm like, oh, this is the son that you love so much.

[01:26:44] Mm-hmm. Like, I'm this bad guy again. What's happening here? Mm-hmm. And again, I have to go through the whole process of becoming the immovable object that he's talking about in order to remind her mm-hmm. Who she's talking to. Mm-hmm. And today was that example? Yeah. 

[01:26:56] Toliy: Yeah. EE Even just recently when like, you know, uh, like when, when I was bothering my dad or like we were bothering my dad in like the chat or like, whatever, I forget if there was a, um, I, I, I think it was in the, uh, chat, my dad remembers when you were dissing me about those pa paper towels, me using too, too many.

[01:27:16] Yes. And he used that to diss me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like he remembered that. Mm-hmm. Enough because he is like, yo, I need to mm-hmm. Obviously he needs something. 'cause obvious back to, in that situation, he was in the wrong. Mm-hmm. Like, like he was getting owned. Mm-hmm. And now he needs a, he need, he remembered what he can use Yeah.

[01:27:31] To go against me. Mm-hmm. So, and reference me and Yeah. Well, well, no, no. He he didn't reference you. He just remembered Yeah. You guys bothering me about the paper towels and something that I do that, that, that's silly. Yeah. So he had to remind me to be like. You do something that's silly, do you remember?

[01:27:45] Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. But also, again, like, like obviously now it's up to me whether I want to be this silly Pa Patel person or not. Mm-hmm. And with enough of me acting a particular way and, and like seeing this as like, yo, like this is like retarded behavior. 

[01:27:59] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:28:00] Toliy: And like, this is like stupid. Right. Like that point will be gone.

[01:28:04] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:28:05] Toliy: For example. Right. But it, it, I mean, it, it is definitely served as a good, good reminder to me that like, uh, like, like obviously like they're, they're gonna go to any kind of like slip any kind of like Yes. 

[01:28:18] Eldar: Like way like, yo sister went for the underwear that you order underwear. Yeah. What? Yeah. You spend money too.

[01:28:24] Yeah. You see? Mm-hmm. They're gonna be grasping for straws. 

[01:28:27] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:28:28] I know. 

[01:28:30] Eldar: You know? So yeah. I think it is very important to be, uh, focused, attentive, so you become the immovable object in these types of conversations so you can win from them and accumulate those wins so you can be confident, but if you're gonna be lax fucking around mm-hmm.

[01:28:45] And not really paying attention Yeah. These moments are gonna be missed. And then next thing you know, somebody else is scolding you. Mm-hmm. You'll be like, wait, what the fuck's happening here? I, yeah. I took a fucking candy. Like, that's why I want, yo, how much does this cost? Like, what are we talking about here?

[01:28:57] Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, we hurt somebody so badly. Yeah. Like your 

[01:29:01] Toliy: Yeah. Like your relationship and everything you guys build up to, can't weigh on someone taking someone's candy. Think about, think about how ridiculous this season. Like Yeah. 

[01:29:09] Mike: Well, yeah. I, although this is extremely ridiculous.

[01:29:11] Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. It's crazy, bro. It's crazy. The thing is nobody ever Yeah. Is gave, gave that kid Yeah. Like what we trying to give him. I agree. Give him a fucking opportunity. Yeah. Treat him nicely. Yeah. Don't talk to him like a retard. Yes. Give him a job. Mm-hmm. Treat him as a friend. Treat him as an equal.

[01:29:29] Mm-hmm. And then he comes in, he says, yo, you took my candy. Mm-hmm. Yes. After four months you come in here, you got the best fucking bosses mm-hmm. That give you the best fucking place to work. And you, and 

[01:29:40] Eldar: you like, do this over candy. I told you it's not over candy. It's a with the small, those things. Yeah.

[01:29:46] The small little pockets. He is gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna use them. 

[01:29:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:29:50] Eldar: Those people are very dangerous people. 

[01:29:52] Mike: Yeah. Oh, I know. I can, I hear the way he talks about his mom, his brother, you know, you see it, bro. His 

[01:29:57] Eldar: family. Yeah. The more we hear the personal stuff, the more we realize like, yo, what's happening here.

[01:30:02] Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[01:30:04] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:30:04] Eldar: Yeah. So you have to keep those people or those individuals that, that have no control over themselves. Mm-hmm. At a very specific distance. At a distance. Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[01:30:14] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:30:15] Eldar: And you ultimately, you notoriously Yeah. Of course. Are known for not. 

[01:30:19] Mike: Yeah, I know.

[01:30:20] Eldar: You know? 

[01:30:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah, for 

[01:30:24] sure. 

[01:30:26] Toliy: Yeah. Ev even, like, I also found that you, you Delphi remember this on a very strange what? Me, you and Kat are having that meeting, and then Jared just comes in and he just hangs out. He just like sits down in the meeting. Yeah. Like, we're having an accounting meeting. 

[01:30:41] Mike: Mm-hmm.

[01:30:42] Toliy: Like about accounting things. Mm-hmm. Where inside there. Yes. He comes into my office and he just like sits down. What's that about? I don't know. You know, came, came the door. He was waiting for something to like do he something. Nothing to do. That's a bigger problem. I told you this. Yeah, yeah. That, that, that's what I was saying.

[01:30:56] When you were gone, like that's, Gary is a very task oriented, like, uh, schedule. Like he's a military, like Correct. Yeah. Type. Like he needs to, and we already know this's next. We already know this. 

[01:31:05] Eldar: Yeah. We spoke about this. Yeah. Now it needs to be defined very specifically. So then these types of moments don't happen.

[01:31:11] Yeah. And if Mike is in the meeting, he ought to be respectful and say, Hey, like, Hey, Micah and I sit here. Okay. Is it okay if I sit? Yeah. Like, 

[01:31:17] Toliy: he, he wasn't talking, but it was definitely like weird. I was like, what the fuck? Fuck. No. It was weird, bro. It was weird. Yeah. Yeah. Like we're, we're in the middle of things and he just kind of like, you know.

[01:31:24] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:31:25] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:31:26] Mike: Yeah. No, yeah. 

[01:31:27] Toliy: I mean, there you go. These are your 

[01:31:29] Eldar: red flags, Mike. You know what to work on. 

[01:31:31] Mike: Yeah, 

[01:31:32] Toliy: yeah. But you know what I mean? But, but it is difficult to properly communicate and be able to read all those things that I, I mean, I was experiencing that when I was trying to like train and like, like, um, like, uh, teach Harris.

[01:31:44] Mm-hmm. And then, and then I, and then and, and then Harris is, and over, over over time trying to compare himself to like me or like, you know. Mm-hmm. Do all these like, challenge me in these kind of like, like a, like a, like a disrespectful like ways. Mm-hmm. You remember that four, five raised the words to you, this Yeah.

[01:31:59] Totally. Like, yo, what 

[01:32:00] Eldar: the hell is going on with me? You know what I mean? Like, this guy is like, it's constantly after me. I'm like, yeah, it's because you did this. Yeah. You created this. Mm-hmm. 

[01:32:07] Toliy: Yeah. So it's, it's not even like, and like obviously I have through the whole process, like obviously my intentions are good, obviously I wanna, but like mm-hmm.

[01:32:14] Mm-hmm. Giving him way more than like, you, you know, you know, if you wanna say like, in the real world that you would de like deserve or like get, and like Yeah, of course. Wish the best for somebody. It just, like, you wish the best for like Jared, but none of that matters matters if it's not properly. Um, like, like, like the steps of progression are properly digested mm-hmm.

[01:32:34] By the, by the person. So then they could eat what you're saying and then use that as like, now like prop, like proper fuel. Mm-hmm. Well, not even proper 

[01:32:43] Eldar: fuel, but more adding to, to respecting you. 

[01:32:46] Toliy: Well, well, yeah. Yeah. I'm saying like giving you, they now use what, what you're giving them by digesting it properly.

[01:32:50] Yeah. To now use it properly Correct. To it respect you more. Like you, you could be giving everything and giving all the info information, but like their mind probably has like indigestion, you know, like mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Like in their 100%. But even though your intentions are good, if it's not properly done and like in a particular like, you know, length of time probably in like for format and that and that, um, that's what I always say is that like elder is good at, very good at like.

[01:33:18] Knowing that progression, meeting the person where they're at. Mm-hmm. Obviously, and like going through that, 

[01:33:24] Eldar: and I'm very sensitive to the anomalies that do happen if they happen. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I try to take the corrective course right away. 

[01:33:29] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[01:33:29] Eldar: But more so the parent preventative care. Right? 

[01:33:32] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[01:33:32] Eldar: If I'm paying attention to your friend Carolina and whatever, and I see certain dynamics or whatever, I'm not gonna sign up to watch their kids or whatever, right?

[01:33:40] Mm-hmm. So then for them to then blame you or whatever. Mm-hmm. You remember like, yeah. These dynamics, you know what I mean? Like I'm a ole Right. With his patterns of behavior, I not gonna sign up for something knowing that this person then's gonna twist it on me. Mm-hmm. And say like, you're the selfish, and while you did everything for him, I remember this, you know, you overextending yourself.

[01:33:57] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:33:58] Eldar: And then small little thing, boom, you get, you get shitted on. 

[01:34:00] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:01] Eldar: You know? Yeah. What do you get from that? You don't get shit from that. 

[01:34:04] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:05] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And you again, left with empty pockets. 

[01:34:08] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:08] Eldar: Where's the empowerment? 

[01:34:09] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:34:10] Eldar: You're not empowered. You got shitted on, you lost again.

[01:34:12] Mm-hmm. And now you have to be like, oh, what the fuck? What the fuck? Yeah. Self negative self-talk. 

[01:34:16] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:17] Eldar: You never win, you always lose. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's definitely the what I don't want, you know? I definitely don't, I don't think I have that, so then I can go to the wall or somewhere else and actually focus and enjoy myself.

[01:34:29] Toliy: Yeah. That, that part is like, the hard part with like, you, you go and you do something. You have nothing after. You have nothing before. You just are in that like, free, free in that like present like time to just like, like, like again be like that kid that could just like go explore with no obligations. You have no like strict deadlines.

[01:34:50] You have no, like, things you, you could just focus and enjoy yourself. And like that, that, that's like when you actually like, like, like it's the people that like go on vacation for example, but then can't enjoy like the nice like, uh, like the nice beach or like the nice lounge chair or like the nice drinks.

[01:35:07] You're get you still fighting should, yeah. Yeah. You're still like, internally like not, not, not at peace. So like no matter what you do or what where you are. All that stuff bleeds out into like where your core is coming from and like, obviously we're all working on trying to raise awareness on that and then like, um, like essentially like heal, heal ourselves so that we could then like, um, enjoy all those moments and then like live like a happy life.

[01:35:35] Yeah. A happy life. But, um, like for, for me at least for, for a long time there, there's always like a, um, like, um, a battle. It's like you're, you're, it's like you're trying to do something, but you're like, like you may be recognized that you're injured, but you're actually like severely injured and you're trying to like defeat some boss.

[01:35:56] Like, it always ends up not working. Like, for me at least, it's always like a, like, yeah. It does not go in the, in the way that I want it to go. 

[01:36:07] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:36:08] Toliy: Because it's like you're, you're, you're, you're fighting hurt, you know? So like, you're probably not supposed to like defeat like a challenge if you're hurt.

[01:36:19] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:36:20] Toliy: You know? 

[01:36:21] Eldar: Yeah. And then extract everything and enjoy yourself. Yeah, that's right. So empowerment, 

[01:36:28] Speaker 19: that's where it is, huh?

[01:36:34] Yeah. I think there's 

[01:36:37] Eldar: plenty of things that we can engage in and when it comes to life, right? That can provide us with empowerment, you know, but Yeah. But the prerequisite is that you not even might be ready for that kind of thing, you know? You got too much shit going on in your head. 

[01:36:52] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that, that's the majority, like 99.9% of, of, of people in general is that like there's, and a lot of 

[01:36:59] Eldar: times this shit doesn't stick, right?

[01:37:01] Like I was telling Catherine, I was like, Hey, like, um, she was like, yeah, you rock climbing and it seems like it's much better on your body, whatever. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, I'm thinking like ahead. I'm like, yeah, if like, I don't get really injured or whatever, like I see myself doing this for the rest of my life.

[01:37:14] Just like I saw basketball doing that for the rest of my life until the wheels fall off. Mm-hmm. I think the wheels kind of fell off. You know what I mean? Um, but this, like, this is what I told her, and I'm able to extract that, and now I'm like, I'm excited for that. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm excited for that.

[01:37:30] Toliy: Like, yeah. For like, always athletes say I want to go out on my own terms, right? Yeah. Oh, like you don't want the competitive denial that like Yeah. You keep getting injured, for example, but you're super competitive. Yeah. And you can't see what's going on that like, like, it, it, it, like it's doing that. And, and, and then also like, like there's also different levels of people that like, like remember we would like, uh, play and then like Rich would like send a picture.

[01:37:53] He's always icing everything, hurting his whole legs. Mm-hmm. Like, he's like in a whole incubator. Yeah. Mm-hmm. From playing in a men's league. Think about that. 

[01:37:59] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:38:01] Toliy: What do you need to do? Like, you need to like be like a professional athlete. Like routine. Yeah. To be like an older person trying to play basketball and then Yeah.

[01:38:09] Then eventually you have to be like, yo, is this like the 

[01:38:12] Eldar: me 

[01:38:12] Toliy: or what, like, is a juice worth a squeeze here? No. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. If you have to walk 10 miles to correct, shoot the ball one time, you're probably not gonna correct. Walk 10 miles to shoot one free throw. Right? 

[01:38:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:38:22] Toliy: Eventually it's gonna be silly.

[01:38:23] Mm-hmm. You know? 

[01:38:25] Eldar: Yeah. So, so, yeah. All right. So final thoughts. Well, you have a lot more to say than you, like, oh, no, I, 

[01:38:33] Toliy: I think it's a long like, uh, like it's, it's like a long conversation because I feel like the more you think about these kinds of things, like, um, like the, the, the most dangerous things are the things that you're not aware of for, for all of us.

[01:38:47] Yeah. Like, and the impact that, that they have, because like, you are still going to experience whether you think about those things or not. Like you're gonna experience like the, the like, like the end impact that they have on your life. But if it, like, having the ability to know where it's coming from and why, like that's its own thing.

[01:39:08] And then obviously like, um, doing things about it and putting yourself in a position where you're. Um, um, like have a clear, like, plan there and, and like prog progressing. Mm-hmm. Um, like that's super important to you. Feeling good about things and then being able to, to, um, enjoy them and actually having, like, felt progress.

[01:39:33] But yeah. E everything other than that, like, like the, all those things are gonna show up into the, the climb. Like all, all those things, you know? 

[01:39:44] Eldar: Yeah. So, Mike, you're 

[01:39:49] Mike: done. Final thoughts? Isaiah Bossa. Yeah. I'm exhausted. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Why? Well, obviously right now it feels like it, but I feel like I just can't, can't catch a, can't catch a break.

[01:40:03] Toliy: Yeah. I, I know the exact exhausting feeling that Mike has. Like, I, I can visually see it exactly what it happens. Yeah. Every time. Mm-hmm. It's like when he starts looking like different, like, uh, directions. Mm-hmm. I know that he's already like, thinking and like, he's checked 

[01:40:16] Mike: out. He's checked out. Yeah. No, I'm not checked out.

[01:40:18] I'm just, uh, 

[01:40:18] Toliy: no, no. But like, I, I know that feeling. It's like, um, so he's pacing back and forth, but sitting down, you know, it's like, like that, that I like, that's view. 

[01:40:27] Eldar: Um, but this is another thing to uncover and raise awareness about to, to, to liberate you Sure. To get you to a better place. But where do you find the energy for that?

[01:40:36] Toliy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The, the, this, this is always the same thing because it's like when you're doing something and you think that, like, you're on the cusp, right. You're not the cusp. You, you can't like peek over the th thing and be like, oh shit, there's a hundred more miles left to walk. Yeah. Like, you thought that you were gonna already throw the backpack up, climb up and like, you're done.

[01:40:54] Have some lemonade. You know, like, like, like, it, it, it's difficult to have that, like, tho those, those like, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. When, when you have these kind of things, I never see it, but like, like when you have that feeling where like you're, you're like on the cusp, but then like, uh, well, I'm not delusional, bro.

[01:41:10] Well, yeah, you're, you're probably better at that being, 

[01:41:12] Eldar: you know what I'm saying? Like, I know that the journey is fucking long. 

[01:41:15] Toliy: Yeah, 

[01:41:16] Eldar: yeah. Like this journey is long as fuck. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? But, but Mike, this, this thing was very little. No, you understand this? No, no. See, okay, good. But in retrospect, it's small.

[01:41:26] It's not 

[01:41:26] Mike: just this thing. It's, the thing is, is this is one of many things. Yeah. It's something that we saw and it's addressable and you will address it and you do well. It's, that's not even like the, the big thing. It's, it just everything. Well, yeah. Like all the stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And I like, the thing is, I would like to do something that's actually for me.

[01:41:45] Yeah. But I, I don't have like a, and I do think I could find something that I could actually be able to focus on. Um, yeah. I think you will. 

[01:41:53] Eldar: But you, you've been in jail. You put yourself in a long jail for a very long time. Time. Well, the thing is, yeah, I'm 

[01:41:57] Mike: in 

[01:41:57] Eldar: a jail, but from 

[01:41:57] Mike: all sides, like Yeah. At home, at work.

[01:42:00] Mm-hmm. And I don't feel like I have anything that I can actually do. Like the rock climbing, at times, I do feel like it's, when I go and I really go, like in the mornings I go to the gym. Mm-hmm. That's for me, I enjoy it thoroughly. Mm-hmm. I go there, I work out. I'm not thinking about anything. 

[01:42:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:14] Mike: I'm just focused.

[01:42:15] I'm enjoying myself. I, I like it, you know? Uh, and the rock climbing too. A lot of times when I go, not the times when I'm like bad to myself, but mm-hmm. A lot of times I do like it. Um, and I have fun, but I feel like I never, uh, like it just, uh, again, it's, it's de it's probably delusional, like totally saying because of how I feel now.

[01:42:37] Mm-hmm. It just feels like I haven't, can't catch a break. Like this shit, like with the business. It's like, it just keeps getting, but that's 

[01:42:44] Toliy: also a delusion on the other way, Mike. 

[01:42:45] Mike: Huh? 

[01:42:46] Toliy: That, that's also delusion. Like you're right now being too delusional on the negative side. 

[01:42:50] Eldar: Yeah. It's unfair. You'd making it unfair assessment.

[01:42:53] Toliy: Just like you have that on the other side. Yeah. But it's, why, how is it unfair? Well, because like you're being super like negative and not acknowledging like the, the progress, like, like the progress You're not feeling. Yeah. The progress is 

[01:43:05] Mike: get, the thing is, while the stuff is progressing, it's, first of all, I'm not sure if it's progressing.

[01:43:10] Second of all, it's, it's always progressing. It's progressing, but it's also progress getting 

[01:43:13] Toliy: worse. It's not getting any better. Yes. But that's a good thing. It means that you have more conscious pain and 

[01:43:19] Mike: less subconscious. No, not for me, for the problem that's happening with the business stuff. That's not like, uh, I'm not like, uh, the business keeps getting worse.

[01:43:28] The finance keeps getting worse. I'm in the middle. I'm over here in like, uh, like Nate's favorite terms, golden handcuffs, you know? Yeah. 

[01:43:35] Toliy: But it is not what you set out to do. 

[01:43:38] Mike: Yeah. But I didn't expect them to drag it this long. I did not think that they're gonna gonna drag it this long. Well, that again, yeah, 

[01:43:44] Eldar: nobody knew what time, what timeline it's gonna be on.

[01:43:46] Yeah. But like, 

[01:43:47] Mike: I agree, nobody knew, you know? Yeah. And, and just, and again, and that, and then all everything else, you know, bad sleep, the f situation, the way they talk to each other, the way they mm-hmm. Like, uh, you know, fin financial problems, you know, my own stuff that's now affected by that, you know?

[01:44:06] Mm-hmm. All these other things, like, I just want to fucking like, have fun for myself a little bit, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, and like, I try not to think about it, those things because I like, uh, I know the business thing is gonna take time, but it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse, and nothing's changing, you know?

[01:44:26] I don't know. Like, I feel like, yeah, when I sit and think about it, I feel like I don't have any strength to fight this shit, you know? Because I don't actually never, like, actually, like, uh, I'm not sure if I actually recharge or, um, again, am I being delusional now again, 

[01:44:40] Eldar: you know? Yeah. I think that what totally said is you not being really fair right now on both ends, you know, on the positive and the negative end, you know?

[01:44:49] Toliy: Yeah. I, I, I was feeling that way, like the last like, um, like few days my itself, where it's like, oh, I'm coming in, like I'm kind of tired. You know, and then, like, I completely forgot the last like, like two, three weeks I had of like, relatively feeling very good, for example. Yeah. And like, I was starting to get like a, like yesterday, today I was definitely more down on myself.

[01:45:12] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:45:12] Toliy: You know, and then like Yeah. Like that, that's definitely more like, I wanna like, not do shit, eat poorly. Like, like it's that same like, uh mm-hmm. Same like boat. Yeah. Like, maybe like crave something, but then punish myself for it. Or like, like, kinda like mo like, it, it goes back to that because like, hey, like you didn't go work out, but like, then you're gonna go do this.

[01:45:31] And then like, um, um, but it's also a bit funny. It's like I've been wake waking up, not gaining weight, but eating poorly. Mm-hmm. Right? For example, like, which, which has been a little bit like, like mind boggling as to like, why. 

[01:45:45] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:45:46] Toliy: Right? Um, um, but, but, but anyway, but, but like, you can quickly go back into that like black, like, like, like that black hole.

[01:45:55] Yeah. Very fast. No, I get it very, I acknowledge that, that it's, 

[01:45:58] Mike: it could be just more of like a, you know, in the moment throwing a fit, you know? Yeah. It's temporary. Yeah. It's temporary. Like 

[01:46:04] Toliy: the, the realization of things is always like a draining and like harsh like, and yeah. Painful like thing, but yeah.

[01:46:11] Like o overall, like the, like the more conscious pain that you experience. Like, to me it's, it, it's, it, it, it is like a, a sign of progression because you're, yeah. You're becoming more sensitive. You have to transfer as much of these unconscious moments into conscious moments as you can. So you can come up with strategies.

[01:46:32] You have, you Yeah. You, you have no choice but to make change. Yeah. But, but particular changes. I 

[01:46:37] Mike: agree. But like, the person that's throwing a fit, he is like, all right, I get it. I want to, I want to definitely improve my life, but I also wanna like, relax and do something actually fun. 

[01:46:45] Eldar: Like that doesn't involve like, and you are though, right.

[01:46:48] But the, the problem, like you said, is that you cannot extract the fund when there is fund. Right. Mm-hmm. So it's not like you don't have a opportunity. Yeah. But this is like a, this is not travel is d 

[01:46:58] Mike: This is different though. Fun. This is like a, there's not like a, I don't know, there's a different kind of fun.

[01:47:05] The rock climbing is like a also a challenging fun. 

[01:47:08] Mm-hmm. 

[01:47:09] I'm talking like I, I like for me, what I think of fun. Mm-hmm. Like, uh, tinkering with stuff, right? Yeah. Like tinkering with a car. Yeah. Right. I would love to do that again. Yeah. Because I actually enjoy it. 

[01:47:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:47:21] Mike: I can go in there, I can focus, I could put my phone down.

[01:47:24] I can just sit and fix it, break shit, put it together. Like I enjoy that and I get lost in that time. Mm-hmm. I don't need to eat drink like that. That is something that I love tinkering. Yeah. And especially with cars. Yeah. You know, I'd like to do it, but because of the situation, I can't do that because of the finance.

[01:47:40] I can't do that. Mm-hmm. I can go and buy a car and pay for it and like, obviously, but it's not a smart financial decision, you know? Mm-hmm. But would it be like a pleasant thing for me to do? Yeah. Would I like to go riding motorcycles again? You know, those kind of things. That, and, and when that comes to mind, I'm like, wait, these are the things I used to do.

[01:47:59] And when I was like, uh, you know, when I did it the wrong way mm-hmm. Will it be the same thing if I do it now? You know, is it bad that I'm leaning towards those same things that I used to like, like the cars and motorcycles, you know? Mm-hmm. Because I remember that feeling of when you're on the bike, like it's actually like you're free, you know?

[01:48:18] Mm-hmm. Or when you are in the car, you're free or fixing stuff, you know? Yeah. Tinkering with things, repairing, like that's the freedom that I have those sensations with, right? Yeah. Um, yeah. And that's how I feel. I definitely think that. Um, um, but, but that's not the same as rock climbing to me. Mm-hmm.

[01:48:36] Where that's actually like psych philosophical. Mm-hmm. Mentally challenges itself versus sitting and tinkering with a car, going for a bike ride that's pure, like, I don't know. It's a different kind of feeling. At least that's how I think maybe you guys For you Yeah. Yeah. Can say otherwise, like when you, uh, I guess maybe when you do gardening mm-hmm.

[01:48:52] It's, it's a philosophy too for you in a way. Parts of it, like the patience and like, you know Yeah. Stuff like that. 

[01:48:59] Eldar: Right? Yeah. I think so. I think there's a lot that's built in it, you know? Yeah. The tinkering and, and gardening. I think it's that zone. Yeah. You know, then reflecting and then maybe, uh, seeing it grow and then anticipating it.

[01:49:10] It's like all, there's so much that the gardening, 

[01:49:13] Mike: it's, it's more philosophical, I guess, then provides than probably going on a bike or, uh, or maybe, maybe not, I don't know. Yeah. Or going in a car and fixing a car and like those kind of things. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[01:49:27] Yeah. That's how I feel like those are the things that I'm now thinking about. Like, damn, I don't have the money, but maybe, you know, if I can, if I can find that piece mm-hmm. You know, doing those things, then I'm like, okay, what are they gonna think? Mike just went and spent 20 K in a car and now he's working on the car while the business is fucked up.

[01:49:43] I can afford that for myself, right? Mm-hmm. You know, but what are they gonna think? Is it the right thing to do? Is it just a bad habit? Do I have other things I should be focusing on, but, which obviously I do, but when do I actually recover and rest and recharge? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Those are the things that are in my head, but 

[01:50:02] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:50:02] But for example, like these things, like mm-hmm. Like you, like I've, I've heard you talk about these things like a long time ago as well. Mm-hmm. Right? And the issue is that like, if you don't have an effort in place to like sort these things out, these are the things that I'm talking about that will like, that, that, that poke, its, poke their head and like whatever that, that you're doing that are just buzzing 

[01:50:22] Mike: sort things, sort things out.

[01:50:24] What do you mean? Yeah. 

[01:50:25] Toliy: Yeah. Like, you, like, like I've heard this conversation exactly like, like many years. Mm-hmm. Right? For like many, many years. Mm-hmm. But like, if you still have these questions now, it means that like you haven't done like anything about like those, those things. So like these. Um, like, which, which, which, 

[01:50:45] Mike: which one are you talking about?

[01:50:46] Toliy: Like, like, like about like the car relaxing properly. Mm-hmm. You being tired. Mm-hmm. Like, you're not sure if you have the energy, like, um, the more pending decisions you have. 

[01:50:57] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:50:57] Toliy: Like the more you are drained and ti tired. Guaranteed. Yeah. Even if you don't, like, just the thought of you thinking about this car, for example, thing.

[01:51:06] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. For all these years thinking about this mm-hmm. Because it's still pending. 'cause you haven't like committed one way or like another. Mm-hmm. This drains from you every single day. Yeah. For example, right now, one thing, fine, if you could have one pending thing, no problem. Mm-hmm. But you probably have over a hundred if we were to count all these different things, right?

[01:51:25] Mm-hmm. Sure. And like, that takes away from you every single day. So like, um, the more of these like pending scenarios or pending decisions mm-hmm. Just you evaluating things like, you may not realize you're consciously doing it, but you are subconsciously doing, doing it. 

[01:51:41] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:42] Toliy: Like the, the, this will definitely take away from you.

[01:51:45] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:46] Toliy: Even though it sounds like a small thing because it, like, just talking about that one thing is definitely a small thing. Mm-hmm. But the, uh, accumulation of those things. 

[01:51:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:56] Toliy: That's a lot, you know? 

[01:51:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:51:59] Toliy: Like decisions are extremely tiring and raining. Mm-hmm. Like the act of like needing to make them or having pending things or like having unresolved things like that.

[01:52:11] That's what makes you live in that in-between world. That like I'm talking about, of like, you're not one way or like the other, you know, you're not, you're not fully relaxing and you're not fully stressing. You're kind of in that. It's like a permanent stress relax state. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Where like you're both just at all times kind kind of thing.

[01:52:28] Yeah. And if you 

[01:52:29] Eldar: don't figure it out the proper way Yeah. All those things that you might want to get in, quote unquote get into will not give you what you're looking for. 

[01:52:36] Toliy: Absolutely not. Mm-hmm. 

[01:52:38] Eldar: So how do I figure it out? You know, you might, you might feel guilty about doing them mm-hmm. Like you said, right?

[01:52:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:52:44] Eldar: Hey, you know, this is this, this fund costs too much money and right now I can't do that. Right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's before you solve these things. Yeah. I think it's gonna be a difficult journey 

[01:52:54] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:52:55] Eldar: To be able to extract that empowerment that we talked about that we can potentially extract from the things that we have, you know mm-hmm.

[01:53:01] Interest in or we find fun in, you know, to really fill, fill us up, and that we can do this for prolonged period of time. 

[01:53:09] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's like, like a, a like a good, like, um, representation of this, for example. Um, that like oftentimes for example, like LL Elder doesn't have sometimes like I'll agree with him on something and then like maybe we'll, we'll agree with like a decision, right?

[01:53:29] Um, like, um, elder will be like on that decision. Like he, like he, his, like he, he's for example, let's just say like he's driving his car straight onto that decision because like he agreed with it. I agreed with it. And that where like sometimes I'll agree with it, but I'm probably internally like not, my car is not going straight.

[01:53:52] It's actually like, I have like 10 pit stops on the way, and oftentimes mm-hmm. It, it'll happen where like, I'm actually like probably undecided, like on that like thing. Yeah. You're really not bought in. Right. Right. And then like, then something happens. An elder has to like remind me like, hey, like, didn't we say like, this is what we're gonna do.

[01:54:09] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:54:09] Toliy: Right. For example, and like, but if, if I was like, bought in and I agreed, and like I committed to it and he commits to it, then we should be driving on that same path. Mm-hmm. And there shouldn't be like a moment where it's like, um, where it's like, hey, like, didn't we say like, this is what we're gonna do be, but in my head, I'm actually the, in the in-between land, while he is already in, like, he's already like, like he's taking the already the step forward and I'm still like in the, in-between land.

[01:54:40] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:54:40] Toliy: And like, these types of things I think happen like very often. Yeah. 

[01:54:46] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:54:46] Toliy: She does this to me all the time. And it's because you're like, that person is crossed in like a bunch of different, like, uh, like, um, directions and those different directions and like the different things. But 

[01:54:57] Mike: I think, I think because it's maybe normal, right?

[01:54:59] Like, uh, being, being all over the place because you are looking for, it's normal for the person, it's gonna give you a little bit of relief or happiness or whatever. Well, 

[01:55:08] Toliy: it, it's, it's normal for the person that, that that's like not at peace and trying to like, doesn't have direction. Yeah. Doesn't have direction and trying to like, figure something out.

[01:55:16] Mm-hmm. But like, oftentimes, like, like the, like it's inherently easier to just go straight Right. Than to go like left and right, for example. Mm-hmm. Shit. 

[01:55:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:55:27] Toliy: Right. Like, but the person who's needing to figure shit out, they're, they're, they're not able to just commit to like, hey, like, like, it, it, it, it's again coming down to like the wisest people they like will value and do and hang on to like the most basic like concepts, right?

[01:55:46] Mm-hmm. But then like, the people that are most, like at stress or in like, in like crazy worlds, right? They're trying to like figure out these like complex like, uh, equations for themselves. 

[01:55:58] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:55:59] Toliy: And the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, simple answers for them are just not enough. 

[01:56:03] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:56:04] Toliy: Like they're, they're just not enough whi which is why you can't tell the.

[01:56:07] The stress person should just, Hey, just go lay down and just forget about it for a little bit. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No chance. Are you kidding me?

[01:56:18] Eldar: You know? Okay. 

[01:56:19] Toliy: But I feel anxious. I feel bad. Like there is a red alarm there, there is nothing that can be done to change that, the scenario until it is addressed. 

[01:56:28] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:56:29] Toliy: Nothing, there's no like, hey, just like, sleep it off. What? I'll stay up all night. There's no way. 

[01:56:36] Speaker 19: Mm-hmm. You know?

[01:56:42] Yeah. So what do you suggest?

[01:56:48] Toliy: Well, I mean, I suggest a, uh, like a, a long road, road of recovery. 

[01:56:53] Mike: Mm-hmm. How does 

[01:56:54] Toliy: that look?

[01:56:59] Stay tuned to the next steps to, to find out more? No, no. I mean, like, there, like no, you 

[01:57:06] Eldar: why, what you are ask, you are asking question like you, like you gotta start over or something. Like the course is the same what you've been doing. 

[01:57:14] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:57:15] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[01:57:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:57:17] Eldar: Yeah. But it, you're becoming difficult to, to like, like you're becoming, you've been doing well, you just have to become a little bit more sensitive, a little bit more sensitive where you misstep.

[01:57:25] Mm-hmm. You keep tweaking your rock. Yeah. No, I get 

[01:57:27] Mike: that. The, like I'm not talking about the thing with Jared. I'm talking about like the other stuff that, the Jared stuff obviously is big and, uh, I think everything's 

[01:57:34] Eldar: big. Yeah. Yeah. The thing is everything's big Mike. Yeah. But, but it is all, it's not big in your ma in your mind.

[01:57:40] What the Jared thing, everything. 

[01:57:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:57:42] Eldar: I'm saying is that all the things that are outstanding mm-hmm. Your loose ends that you have in your mind. Mm-hmm. Right. That you kinda like, whatever about they're all big. Sure. I get it. Every single one. If you tap in, if you focus, if you solve it every small little thing or big ones, you can be empowered.

[01:58:01] And empowered. And empowered. And empowered. Okay. 

[01:58:04] Mike: So 

[01:58:04] Eldar: then I just 

[01:58:04] Mike: need to, so then what you're saying that you keep suffering until I, until I Well, for now can start. Then 

[01:58:11] Eldar: I can start. Yeah. If you, right now, if the only way you can listen is through pain, then yeah, you're gonna keep suffering. Like, yeah. It's almost 

[01:58:16] Toliy: like, like you Yeah, but where, 

[01:58:17] Mike: where am I not listening?

[01:58:18] Like as far as like, okay, the jar thing. I get it. Where am I not listening with my parents? Where am I not listening with like the moonlight stuff, with a thing like that. 

[01:58:26] Eldar: You're not listening somewhere. 

[01:58:27] Mike: Mm-hmm. Where do I recharge? 

[01:58:30] Eldar: Yeah. Well you did. You forgot at the beach. 

[01:58:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:58:34] Eldar: What happened? Well, it was good.

[01:58:36] So that's it. So why are you asking me this question? Yeah, well, like it's not enough. Okay. So recharge. Well, yeah. So recharge more at the beach then, right? Yeah. So create more opportunities for yourself. You go on a vacation soon. 

[01:58:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:58:47] Eldar: You better anticipate that motherfucker and really recharge. Mm-hmm.

[01:58:50] Right? Yeah, sure. Like shit like that, right? Yeah. Like what other ways do you recharge? You have to identify those things and, and find ways to escape. Not escape, but recharge. Is it like a bad thing to recharge or is this a normal thing? No, but you are asking to recharge. That means you, you bought in that it, it's good for you.

[01:59:05] Mike: Well, yeah, but I could be wrong. No, maybe I don't deserve to recharge. Maybe I need to suffer as much as possible. 

[01:59:11] Eldar: Well, I don't know. I mean, I think that you need to recharge in order to get energy to continue. Keep going, keep fighting. Mm-hmm. 'cause I don't, thing is wrong with that. It's not like you're recharging with a 25, $20,000 car, right?

[01:59:22] Mike: No, 

[01:59:22] Eldar: no. Like if it's small little thing here, get over here, little drive here, little drive there. A nature walk or whatever. These are your recharging points. But let them be actually your recharging points. Mm-hmm. 

[01:59:34] Mike: Well, 

[01:59:34] Eldar: yeah, I guess I don't know how to 

[01:59:35] Mike: recharge. Well, there you go. That's a different question.

[01:59:38] I only know those, those at least I recall those things were recharges for me before, but I'm not 

[01:59:42] Eldar: sure what recharges me now. Well, there you go. So then maybe the next question is, how do you recharge now? What does it look like and what does you feel like? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? So what you gonna actually like?

[01:59:52] Okay. Yeah. Actually relax, or now I can more shit. Do more shit. But if you're not never relaxing, never feeling refreshed or rejuvenated, then 

[02:00:01] Toliy: it, it could also be like, it could also, which, which I think is important here. It's like sometimes it all, like you're asking for example, like how to recharge to then be able to have the energy.

[02:00:12] 'cause like right now you're like, by asking that question, you're saying that you have a lack of energy to do what you feel like you need to do, right? Yeah. 

[02:00:19] Mike: Right. Um, in this moment, yeah, I'm, right now I feel exhausted three hours ago, four hours ago, and I was not as exhausted, but, 

[02:00:26] Toliy: but I'm saying it in general.

[02:00:27] You don't think about it. No, but I'm saying in general, you have like an exhaustive like, uh, feeling, you know, that like, you're, like, I mean, I mean, I mean, I've heard you say this like many times for a long time. Yeah. For the sleep stuff, for sure. Right. With the Francisco 

[02:00:40] Mike: stuff, with the finances business thing.

[02:00:42] Yeah. 

[02:00:42] Toliy: So, so it's also like, um, the, the question could also be is that like you could be asking like, okay, what do I need to do to recharge, to be able to do what you need to do, but maybe what you, what you're doing or like what you are devoting energy to? Um, may, may, maybe it's either one. It could be like you have just too much on your plate that like, no matter how much you recharge, you're still not gonna be able to do it.

[02:01:08] You're gonna keep getting burnt out. Yes. And then it's a question, well, like, uh, is it a recharge thing or is that like you have too much on, on, on, on your plate thing, 

[02:01:16] Eldar: which then you have to do the reducing thing. Like removing things from your plate. Yeah. For, 

[02:01:19] Toliy: for example. Right. And, and that, that's like some, sometimes to identify what's actually on your plate, A alone is difficult because like, you can't see, like, again, those stressors that, those, those hidden stressors that are affecting you, so you won't be able to make proper decisions.

[02:01:38] Um, and then, um, like if, if that scenario were to play out, then like you could go on this quest figuring out how do you get this like, sick rest or like recharge to only then realize that. No matter how much you recharge, you won't be able to do what you currently Well, yeah. Like envision or want to, like, do, you know, like, um, the 

[02:01:58] Mike: recharge, I guess the way I understand it is do things that actually, like, I feel like fulfill fill, fill my cup, you know, I'm not like the sleep thing.

[02:02:08] Yeah. In the morning I wake up, but throughout the day I kind of shake it off and I feel bad. Like, I go to the gym, I do my thing, you know, 

[02:02:13] Toliy: but, 

[02:02:13] Mike: but even 

[02:02:14] Toliy: with the sleep stuff, like there's, there's like, I guarantee you there's stuff that you could do to put yourselves in better positions to, to, uh, succeed.

[02:02:22] Yeah. 

[02:02:22] Mike: But, but, um,

[02:02:27] is it a lack of knowledge or a lack of energy to do the thing? 

[02:02:30] Toliy: Well, I think it's a lack of asking enough questions. 

[02:02:34] Mike: Mm. 

[02:02:36] Toliy: Rather than like, just like being caught in that, like in between land of you just like mm-hmm. Kind of accepting it and just like, like, like just, just bearing it. 

[02:02:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:02:47] Toliy: You know, um, what you, you like Yeah.

[02:02:52] Like a asking the right questions so that you could then start doing the right action so that you could start doing proper things for yourself rather than like, improper things for yourself. But there's two different ways to tackle that. You either like, say like, yeah, like what you were saying, like, or, or, or like, what, where was mentioning like, yeah, if you learn through like pain, then you need to go on that quest and then continue to do pain.

[02:03:16] But if you could learn in other ways, then it would you then finding the importance to have enough energy to then ask enough questions and then do enough things to, to put yourself in better positions. Mm-hmm. On 

[02:03:30] Eldar: one hand, you're saying right on the beginning of this conversation, before we start addressing the stuff that drained you.

[02:03:35] Mm-hmm. Yeah. You're like, all right, KLE. But then I come home and I have, I have more energy. Mm-hmm. I want to do more shit. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you were never this person that's gonna be like, gonna be kinda like, alright, I need to relax and recharge, therefore I'm gonna be this idle person and sit still like, you've never been that 

[02:03:52] Mike: way.

[02:03:52] No, I'm not gonna be that person. You know what I'm saying? But I'm not asking to like for, to, to for that. What I'm saying is that's what I mean, your 

[02:03:58] Eldar: recharging is probably more like active recharging. Yeah. 

[02:04:02] Mike: That's why those ideas that I came up with Yeah. With the car, with the bike, those are the way I could be, would think about active recharging.

[02:04:08] Yeah. It could be. Yeah. You know, I like, I can see myself coming home and like tinkering with, with a car 

[02:04:14] Eldar: or something like 

[02:04:14] Mike: that. Right. 

[02:04:14] Eldar: But, but again, like totally said, if you don't have certain things aligned where, for example, you don't have the blessing from your parents. Right, of course. Yeah. Your $20,000 car, like you said, like, they're like, what?

[02:04:26] Wait, what's going on here? Like mm-hmm. What are you doing? 

[02:04:29] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, I think it's like, um, I'm, I'm not sure if I have a better answer for it. Like, I, I, I haven't like, thought about it enough, but like, um, like no matter, like, 'cause because 'cause like to, to me it's like with all of these, these these things, I still think that these things that you're suffering with, like, you could be thinking that like, okay, you get this car, but all these still, all these problems are still going to appear in the act of tinkering with this car.

[02:04:58] Or like, with different, different, different like things. Yeah. You know, so I almost viewed as out like, like, like when, when I brought up that point before about like if like parts of your core are rotten, like you, like whichever garden you go to, the weeds are going to grow in that place from whatever you have that's bad.

[02:05:18] So I almost viewed it as that. Like, it might, like, I, I don't have a better explanation for it. It just might be okay to suffer and like, I'm not sure if there's a place that you can actually like go like this, the, this like recharge land where you actually recharge until you address particular like things.

[02:05:38] I think he will just be, how do you, how do you like a 

[02:05:41] Mike: broken 

[02:05:41] Toliy: person? How 

[02:05:42] Mike: do Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, how do you then live, live your life? 

[02:05:48] Eldar: You just, well, this is your life. Mike Uhhuh, you said, you said this all the time. I, I, I made the bed. 

[02:05:53] Mike: Yeah, 

[02:05:54] Eldar: sure. You trying to manage the shit that you, you made sure, but, 

[02:05:57] Mike: but in the process, like, why do I, why do I have to just do all, just only suffering and always suffering?

[02:06:03] Well, who said that? Well, first of all, you're 

[02:06:04] Eldar: not doing that. 

[02:06:05] Mike: Yeah. No. What you guys are saying, like, why, why do, why what he just said? I'm not saying that. 

[02:06:10] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Like, uh, you clearly have a hybrid, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. You don't just suffer yeahs one. 

[02:06:20] Toliy: No one just like, but, but I'm saying is that like in the way that, that like the person depicts it.

[02:06:24] Mm-hmm. Like, I don't think that they can get that kind of like, ideal outcomes without, uh, have some suffering. Yeah. With, without sorting out ways. In an ideal ways as well. Like the sorting out in ideal ways. The result of that is like, like you don't like, uh, like, uh, um, rest for you. Like you don't get rest.

[02:06:46] Like, you don't like, almost like deserve rest from a lack of work. Right. You like you deserve rest from, yeah. So are you saying that I'm not I agree. I'm not doing 

[02:06:55] Mike: work. You're saying? 

[02:06:56] Toliy: Well, like, you probably have to be doing enough proper and conscious work to then deserve and earn proper rest. Like that, that, that's like associated with it.

[02:07:05] Mm-hmm. It like, it like until you address those things and until you feel good about them and you're in like a conscious, for sure good place on them. Like, you're probably gonna be somewhat of a broken person, like overall, which is like deserving, like is deserving of earned. It's earned. Right. And it's also like, like, it, it may be viewed as like a bad thing, but it's almost like, like it's, it, it, it's like almost like a good thing because like you have like.

[02:07:38] Like you're, you're not, um, like living in an ignorance as bliss land. Yeah. By doing that, he's taking accountability. And you've been saying that like you're, I'm 

[02:07:46] Eldar: taking accountability. I shit the bed. Yeah. I made this bed. I'm in it and I'm trying to figure out a way out of it that's Yeah. Like for, for, yeah.

[02:07:53] That's exactly what 

[02:07:54] Toliy: he's living. Like, like for, for me, for like, like especially last few years, like, like the more I've I've learned, the more I'm suffering. But now it's like an in my face, like there, like there's a choice. Like I cannot go back. It's either like, I'm gonna forever be like that. Mm-hmm.

[02:08:11] Which is obviously impossible and I'm just gonna keep suffering more. 

[02:08:14] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:08:14] Toliy: Like, you, you can't learn more information, not use it and live a good life. It is impossible. Like the more information, the more you learn. Sure. For sure. And the lack of application you have or like that Yeah. Like, you're obviously going to suffer more, but am I not 

[02:08:30] Eldar: like applying it is what you're saying?

[02:08:33] Well, um, she's probably saying that you, you need to be applying it more. You need to be examining more. This is probably what, this is what I'm hearing. Yeah. Because Sure. I'm saying that is that the model that he's talking about is exactly the model that you are living out. You know what I mean? Like Yeah.

[02:08:47] You can't have a perfect life. You always kind of have to be suffering, but you are consciously suffering now. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, you know what you've done. Yeah. You know why you're here. Yeah. It sucks. And it's gonna take some time to get over it. Well, and I think, but nonetheless, you're doing something about it.

[02:09:01] Mike: And I, I think I understand that. I understand why I'm suffering and I'm not saying I don't deserve it. I definitely 

[02:09:07] Toliy: do tell you one thing though. I, I think that you asking that question of like, um, like, like I feel like I haven't progressed that at all, for example. Mm-hmm. Like you saying that to me is like, like I almost feel like it's a guilty like, response to not asking enough questions.

[02:09:25] So like, not enough examination really. I thought you were gonna say something else completely. Yeah. What? 

[02:09:31] Mike: Hmm. 

[02:09:33] Eldar: Yeah. And how did you come up with that? I thought, I thought it was a testament of him actually. Not understanding what's happening. 

[02:09:40] Toliy: Well, yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. Oh, like, you, like the person who doesn't examine enough, like, is not able to see progress or extract the right things from it.

[02:09:52] The person who's like, ah, uh, vigilant about, um, like examining a lot and asking a lot of questions and putting a focus on doing that, that would make that test testimony not, would not feel like they have not progressed. Right. Got, got it. It would be impossible and would not say it the way he said it.

[02:10:06] Yeah. It, it would be like, like, like, like these, the, like these things don't come up all the time. They obviously come up like after it a period of time. Right. Like these things are like mm-hmm. Like, you, you've definitely had like a good amount of moments where you said like, Hey, like, I feel like I haven't done anything.

[02:10:21] Right. Um, yeah. And like, those usually happen between an extended period of time, right? Mm-hmm. Then the question is like, what happens in that period of time? Because like for example, if you were asking questions about this kind of stuff like yesterday and the day before mm-hmm. Or the day before that, there's no way that right now you could have that big reaction mm-hmm.

[02:10:41] Because you've been doing a bunch of small things Yeah. Along the way and you'll, you won't have that memory lapse of like, you not doing anything, you know? Yeah, yeah. Like, you'll, you'll have supporting evidence to be like, Hey, like, we actually spoke about this two, two days ago. Yeah. And this is what we did.

[02:10:55] Right. Like, then what he's 

[02:10:55] Eldar: saying is that you're not doing enough. 

[02:10:56] Mike: Yeah. No, you're saying, I'm not doing anything. You guys say I'm a complete retard saying guys threw me under the bus completely saying you're, you're saying that not us. You guys are saying that, I'm saying that 

[02:11:06] Eldar: you are doing a hybrid. He's saying that you do, you're not doing enough, but you are doing it.

[02:11:10] Yeah. And then you are the, he's saying that the way you are saying this about yourself, the way you're judging is actually the testimony that you are not doing enough. Yeah, 

[02:11:19] Toliy: yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like a testimony that you're disrespecting yourself by not examining the things that you're like mm-hmm.

[02:11:26] The, the person who's saying that this, like right now we could all state what's important to us, right? Yeah. Right now. Yeah. Right. When you don't follow the actions behind it. Then you don't feel that progression. It's like a disrespect to the person before Yeah. That was upset, right? Yeah. Like, right. Like that, that like said that like, hey, this stuff is important to me.

[02:11:46] Mm-hmm. But then, but that action, there's not been done. So then the progress is not felt. That's right. And then that's where it's like the always feeling of like starting over. Like, I've been trying to like, like, uh, like, uh, like, like create this dream of mine in like, sales for like 10 plus years. Now that I've had this idea for a while.

[02:12:06] Obviously I still like, have, haven't done it in the way that like I thought about it or like have been like dreaming about. Right. Um, but it doesn't mean that I haven't made any, like, obviously I've made like a ton of progress on like, a bunch of things and like, I can't ever say that like, Hey, I'm gonna start from square one, but like, it's still not how I want it to be, obviously.

[02:12:27] Right. So I still have like more to learn, more to understand and more to like apply properly. But I've definitely have chipped, chipped away at it, you know? And I 

[02:12:37] Mike: haven't, sounds like based on my own testimony, I haven't done anything. 

[02:12:41] Toliy: Um, no, no, no. I think that you've done plenty of things. Like, like it's almost like when people ask the question that, that they just got asked on Love Island.

[02:12:52] Uh, like, um, I, I can ask Curtis like, at, at the end, because I, I, I already finished the, uh, season. She asked him at the end like, Hey, like, do you have any regrets of how you acted? Right. And he said, and he said no, because like, the way I acted led me to how I feel now. Hmm. Okay. But most people would say like, yeah, I regret, like, you know?

[02:13:11] Mm-hmm. Like, you could definitely say that, like, you shouldn't have said that, or stuff like that. But you may not have learned the valuable lessons that potentially happened, like, along the way. 

[02:13:20] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:13:20] Toliy: So it's like, like you could feel that it's square one, but it's, it's obviously not square one because you like clearly before you weren't capable of understanding what you know now.

[02:13:29] And clearly in the future you won't, you wouldn't have been capable of understanding what you. No, no. Now, so like you'll always have a, like a progression of leveling up if you continue to, to ask questions, unless there's a different 

[02:13:43] Eldar: reason as to why he's making this conclusion. 

[02:13:46] Mike: Which conclusion? Oh, the having progressed?

[02:13:48] Yeah. 

[02:13:49] Toliy: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean that, that obviously you don't know like that, that's for you to like 

[02:13:54] Mike: examine. No, I feel like that because based on the way you guys are you saying it like I said it and more of like throwing a fit because I'm fucking beat up right now, you know? Mm-hmm. And you guys said, yeah, you probably aren't, you're probably not doing shit.

[02:14:05] Well totally said. You're not doing shit. You're not doing 

[02:14:09] Eldar: enough. 

[02:14:09] Mike: Not enough. Yeah. 

[02:14:10] Eldar: In order to be then convincing of yourself because the person who is actually doing something mm-hmm. Would never say that. 

[02:14:15] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:14:16] Eldar: The way you said it. Yeah. That just shows you again, how you watch it yourself. Yeah. For sure.

[02:14:23] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That means you are not doing enough, which, which is sense. No, but to me it's like, I, 

[02:14:28] Mike: I feel like, feel, I feel like I'm doing stuff. Yeah. Right. But then when we get here, it seems like I'm not doing anything. No. But there's a different 

[02:14:35] Eldar: pressure applied. Yeah. But Mike, you also, you also, the one who poses this question, he's the one who posed the question No.

[02:14:40] Of, of course. He's the one who said, how do I extract the things that I need to extract Yeah. From the things that I'm doing. 

[02:14:47] Toliy: Yeah. But that's, how do I get empowered that, that's always like, the thing is that like when you're on some path and you get comfortable with whatever it is, and you're just like living in that like, like land.

[02:14:58] Like you, if you're under the impression that you're progressing somewhere, you obviously, like, it's impossible to live in like that like moment land where you have no like, you know, expectation or like goal or like Yeah. Place that you're at. Like, you, you, you don't have to be the person that like says it in that kind of way.

[02:15:15] But you still have like, you know, you have your predictions. 

[02:15:18] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:15:18] Toliy: We all have our predictions. Mm. Right. When you don't get there at the speed that you thought, or like at the progression level, you thought when you find out more information that you are not aware of what happens, you got shut down. Yeah.

[02:15:31] Like you feel like you're, you go from the start again. You feel like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels like, well, but rightfully 

[02:15:35] Eldar: so. Yeah. That, that is why my question stands here. Is there another reason as to why he says and feels the way he does? And I think the answer is and, and the de what you just described.

[02:15:48] Yeah. It's arrogance. And the arrogance comes from making a timeline 

[02:15:53] Toliy: time. Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:15:55] Eldar: Because you, you said, made the timeline as to say, I should be here, you know, five to 15, you know, five to 15 million. Yeah. Per, you know, in X amount of years I was there like seven years ago. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Still not.

[02:16:09] And then when you're not there, yeah. Right. You are like, what the fuck? Mm-hmm. Rightfully so. You were arrogant about making a prediction about yourself. Like Totally said. Everyone makes these goals mm-hmm. In our heads with timelines. 

[02:16:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:16:21] Eldar: So then when we find out more information about the fact that that's not the right timeline, that's not the right steps.

[02:16:27] That's not the right progression. You are like, oh, shit. You have to have that epiphany. Yeah. It's to humble yourself. That's why you're having that Yeah. Someone American piece of shit. Yeah. Someone 

[02:16:41] Toliy: I'm an arrogant piece of shit, like Harry said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like someone who thinks that they're around the corner.

[02:16:46] Yeah. From success for example. Or from that goal. Like when they don't get there, they realize that they're like, 

[02:16:52] Mike: what? Um, what, what, what do you mean? Like, uh, what did I say that I was, felt like I was around the corner from the success or, well, 

[02:16:59] Toliy: like to go, well, like you saying that you're starting over is a crazy statement, right?

[02:17:03] It's like a dis it's like a disrespect to like. Everything that you've been doing and talking about that, like mm-hmm. We've all collectively been doing mm-hmm. That is the face of that negative self-talk. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, like, like for the whole time of we we've ever known, like known each other. Mm-hmm.

[02:17:18] Right. Like, you're disrespecting like all that by making that, that statement that you're starting from scratch, that's like a crazy thing. 

[02:17:25] Speaker 21: Mm-hmm. Right. 

[02:17:26] Toliy: So like the person who's saying that, like, I, I think logically they felt that they were like nearing like, like a, like a 

[02:17:36] Mike: finish line thing. No, I feel like that because we were, me and Al we had a plan we spoke about and we were on the ride together.

[02:17:43] Right. Okay. We're with this, with the business thing, which is probably the biggest thing. Okay. 'cause the business is tied to the family, which is probably the biggest cause of stress in my life. Okay. So then how were you 

[02:17:53] Toliy: starting over there though? 

[02:17:55] Mike: Um, and we had, we had the plan, everything was going like, you know, not according to plan, but the business was, was like not doing well and you know, waiting for them to come around.

[02:18:07] They weren't coming around. Okay. You know, and I had my own, we had a goal I was working towards. Right. And that goal also that was giving me a lot of energy and support that also has faded away because of the business stuff. So the stuff that I was drawing energy from, which reminded me like why I'm doing everything.

[02:18:25] Also, that also now is even more like, I guess, I don't know if it's even more distant, but now the way it feels, this is even further away. Right. Like, the business was not doing well and now it's not doing well. It's very bad. Yeah. But like, what, what do you mean this drawing energy that like I was saving money Yeah.

[02:18:44] To buy a house. Yeah. Right. Yeah. When the business started getting worse and worse and nobody kept raising the alarms. Yeah. Everybody's salary got cut. Nobody's getting paid for almost a whole, uh, from almost a year. 

[02:18:55] Yeah. 

[02:18:56] People not getting paid like on a regular schedule. Yeah. And regular pay. 

[02:18:59] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:19:00] Mike: I'm not saving anything.

[02:19:01] So 

[02:19:02] Toliy: now I, yeah. But then how, how could you have tied, like, those things together to me are like, if, like one, one goal is for like a business to like fail. Mm-hmm. And for that to happen, like, no, the goal is not for the 

[02:19:15] Mike: business to fail, but the goal is for the people to, to, to come around and to, and to say, okay, when you help 

[02:19:20] Toliy: but to do that, things have to fail.

[02:19:21] Right? 

[02:19:21] Mike: Well, yeah, but not to this extent, bro. 

[02:19:23] Toliy: Well, yeah, but that's see, like that, that, that's your like, uh, like outline on it, right? Yeah. But, or like, to, to me it's, sure. It's like, like if, if, if a big draw of my, of my like energy and my, like looking forward to things and like affirmation and like happiness is to like deposit, then like eventually my deposits are obviously going to be eliminated if the business is failing.

[02:19:46] Mike: Right? Yeah. So like, I see how those, I was not under in, in calculation that they were gonna take it this far. That they were not gonna, that we were gonna get. They were, I was, we 

[02:19:55] Toliy: were, yeah. Yeah. So then you then made a timeline that was not correct then, 

[02:19:59] Mike: right? Sure. Yes. 

[02:20:01] Speaker 20: Right. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, 

[02:20:03] Mike: yeah. Yeah. I did not expect them to drag it this far, you know?

[02:20:09] Yeah. I was wrong about my assumption and that, like I said, that was a huge source. I even came to El and I told them like how I feel happy sa Saving the money. Yeah. Putting it away every time, you know, and growing money. I never saved money in my life. And now I was saving money. I had a good, you know, amount.

[02:20:28] And, and then that was a huge draw of energy for me. Like something to look forward to putting the money away to a dream, you know? Mm-hmm. And then nothing was changing. It was just getting worse. And obviously once I lost that like, source of strength, it definitely made it much more difficult and worse.

[02:20:49] And then, 

[02:20:50] Toliy: yeah. But I feel like it's hard to, like, like it would be hard for me to project like a sort, like, like if everybody was getting regular deposits, right? And like all that. That would not be enough for the business to fail for people that are like, have a very, like, like a large, um, suffering meter, right?

[02:21:11] Speaker 19: Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:21:12] Toliy: Right. Like the, those deposits would obviously have to stop for a long time, which would indicate business failures, right? 

[02:21:18] Mike: Yeah, yeah. 

[02:21:18] Toliy: For everybody, obviously. Yeah. 

[02:21:20] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:21:21] Toliy: So that would be like the correct path of, of, of things happening. Yeah. But then on the other side, it's like the, the, the outcome goal is then destroying like the other goal, right?

[02:21:31] It's like the, uh, yeah. Right. It's like they're Yeah. They're, they negate each other. Yeah. They're, yeah. They're negating each other. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Correct. Yeah. So you definitely can't have success when that you can't have both. 

[02:21:41] Eldar: No. Yeah. Yeah. So the timelines you probably made for yourself is mm-hmm.

[02:21:47] Incorrect. 

[02:21:48] Mike: Yeah. Absolutely. You know? Mm-hmm. 

[02:21:53] Toliy: Yeah. And, and that's, that's that like thing of like, like, um, like, like that, that, that timeline of like, like how close was that gonna happen? Or that like, like yeah, for sure. Like if I told you, Hey, it's gonna take you like another 30 years to save enough money, and that, that's how long it typically takes.

[02:22:09] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:22:09] Toliy: For this, for example. Yeah. Right. Like, if you were three years in, like, you wouldn't be able to have a conversation that like, hey, like, it's like it's about to happen mm-hmm. When, you know, there's 27 more years Yeah, for sure. To go, but in your head, like, there's way less time. Mm-hmm. And you're way closer to the finish line.

[02:22:26] Mm-hmm. Like, you're around the corner more or less. Sure. And then like you have a long track ahead of Yeah. 

[02:22:31] Speaker 19: You know? Absolutely. Yeah. Like, yeah.

[02:22:41] So anything else? 

[02:22:46] Mike: Well, what do you say about what you listened to everything. We just had the conversation about What do you think? 

[02:22:53] Eldar: Well, yeah, I, I don't agree with you that you didn't make progress. You're making progress. Um, I probably agree more with totally that you need to probably make more progress.

[02:23:02] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:23:03] Eldar: You know what I mean? And you need to acknowledge that you're making progress. Right. Even if it has to probably be where you reevaluate some of these things to convince yourself of that progress. No, no. But that's not, but the progress also have to be a realistic progress. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

[02:23:18] Mike: How does that, like how does everything you described, how does that look? 

[02:23:24] Eldar: Well, what's the plan? And then as you move towards accomplishing the goals of the plan, you evaluate whether or not you're going towards the thing. It sounds like, based on everything you just said, you said that like, oh, I thought this was going to, this was the plan.

[02:23:38] Uh, the plan kind of ran out of the timeline that you put on it. Mm-hmm. And therefore, it's kind of dead. Therefore you can't draw energy from it because you no longer can save. Therefore, your biggest plan of buying the house is no longer on that same path, and therefore you kind of like deflate it. Oh, 

[02:23:56] Mike: that's definitely a big part 

[02:23:57] Eldar: of it.

[02:23:57] Yeah. Well, yeah. So then you have to reevaluate that whole plan. 

[02:24:00] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:24:01] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[02:24:01] Toliy: Yeah. The first week drive to AC and put it all on black. 

[02:24:05] Eldar: Yeah. The whole safety thing. No, you gotta do is I told you on cop 

[02:24:09] Toliy: man. Yeah. On cop winning being the champion of Yeah. Max the bet there. 

[02:24:14] Eldar: Yeah. Easy money, free money.

[02:24:16] Mm-hmm. 25 x If you want 25, you x extra money, you subscribe to a non-existent Patreon. 

[02:24:21] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:24:23] Eldar: Yeah. I'll give you the answer. 

[02:24:24] Toliy: Yeah. But I I, I was go was gonna say that like, I don't think that you, like, if you're actually like, vigilant about like, um, examining stuff and asking those questions and doing stuff like Yeah.

[02:24:35] I don't think you need to like reaffirm that, like your, your, your progression has felt because like the, like the aspiration. 

[02:24:43] Mike: But what's the, what's the, what's the, what's like Yeah. Like the way you're saying it, it's the way I'm hearing it at least. It's like you need to be vigilant. Right. But No, 

[02:24:52] Toliy: no, no, no, no.

[02:24:53] You don't need, need to be vigilant. Yeah. You only need to be, you only. Need to take action if you want to. 

[02:25:00] Mike: Sure. Yeah. But if you want to. But like, what is like, uh, I don't know, it just sounds like, uh, I don't know. 

[02:25:10] Eldar: Well, what are you confused about the plan that it's like not you not drawing anything from it anymore, that it's not serving you anymore?

[02:25:18] Mike: Mm-hmm. Well, I didn't, I did not expect them to drag it this far. Mm-hmm. You know? 

[02:25:25] Eldar: Well, the first dragging was the fact that you weren't cutting salaries early enough. Yeah. Yes or no. That was you dragging, remember we, we talked about that. Yeah. And then you finally like, yo guys, there's no money here.

[02:25:36] Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? 

[02:25:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:25:39] Eldar: That was the first drag. 

[02:25:40] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:25:40] Eldar: After you've done that, I think you had, you definitely had several conversations with them. Mm-hmm. They definitely came to you and said, Hey, like 

[02:25:46] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[02:25:46] Eldar: What do we do here? How do we fix this? Right. Yeah. And you provided certain outlets.

[02:25:51] Mm-hmm. 

[02:25:52] Mike: You know what I 

[02:25:52] Eldar: mean? And if they didn't, I mean, follow through, they didn't follow through. 

[02:25:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:25:56] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? It's not like, I mean the, you know, the plan was the plan, but you know, if it's fallen on them to, for you to succeed, then Yeah. Like your plan is not foolproof for you to, to actually be good either way.

[02:26:12] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:26:12] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? It sounds like you wanted them to be, to take a specific role, and then that was like your money was riding on that. But even then, like you said, Hey, if they're gonna fail, you thought they were gonna fail fast, so then, then they're gonna start paying attention to you.

[02:26:24] You're gonna lead them to success. Mm-hmm. And then everything's gonna be fun and jolly. 

[02:26:28] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's what, that's 

[02:26:29] Eldar: what sound like in your, in your mind. To, to to, 

[02:26:32] Toliy: to me. Uh, to, to me it sounds like, I think that you were, um, hoping for them to wake up and probably like, go on that plan that you were talking about be before, like without it failing.

[02:26:45] Because I think that like, 

[02:26:46] Eldar: I, I definitely felt that. Yeah. 

[02:26:48] Toliy: Because I feel like, yeah, I definitely felt that the 

[02:26:49] Eldar: reluctance of cutting the like Yeah, because, because like 

[02:26:53] Toliy: the, the to, to, to me, like. The level of stamina and strength it takes to actually participate in something actually failing like that and the amount of psych, like that's a very difficult role to play within that.

[02:27:09] Eldar: What do you mean? His 

[02:27:10] Toliy: role? Yeah. 

[02:27:11] Eldar: Oh, to stand on, to act actually say stand on it. We're 

[02:27:13] Toliy: actually gonna fail. 

[02:27:14] Eldar: Okay. Yeah. 

[02:27:15] Toliy: That's it. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like we're actually at that point of failure. Yeah. Agree. And, and, and actually be like, yeah, like you're, you're, you would be in like, like a, like a almost like a hell, right?

[02:27:25] Yeah. And you would be in it. Like that's a, like a, a very hard, a hard role. So I feel like, yeah, probably. Probably. Where do you think 

[02:27:33] Mike: I'm like, how do you think I feel now? You think I'm like in heaven now? Like, what's happening? Well, no, obviously not. Like what I'm saying is that it takes my, my parent, my, my nephews Yeah.

[02:27:43] Has his problems. My sister has her problems. She doesn't give a fuck. My dad and mom. Yeah. They have to move. They have to sell the house. The business has under 10 K in the account. The debts are over 300 K. 

[02:27:54] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[02:27:54] Mike: Like, uh, and it's all on my shoulders and everybody's coming to me saying, Hey, Mike, so what are we gonna do?

[02:28:00] Like, so what's up? What's going on with the new marketing company? They're putting all this pressure on me and I deserve it. 

[02:28:06] Toliy: Well, yeah. Like, if that's what's happening, then yeah. I think that like, things are probably No. Oh, am 

[02:28:10] Mike: I wrong? About what? Am I wrong? What I just said? Am I not living in this hell?

[02:28:15] Well, you definitely are in it. 

[02:28:17] Toliy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you're, yeah. And, and like in, in, in, in that sense. Yeah. But I'm saying is that like, if that's the pressures you feel in that kind of way, and that's how it's happening, then like, to me, like the plan is not going to, to accordance 

[02:28:31] Mike: why is the plan not, is not going to accordance 

[02:28:33] Toliy: Well, because if they're approaching to you and saying like, Hey Mike, what's up with this marketing company?

[02:28:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:28:37] Toliy: For example. Yeah. Right. Like. Then they're almost in a waiting. They're waiting on you. No, 

[02:28:42] Mike: they're not waiting on me because I tell 'em, what do you guys focus on your job? I send 'em stuff to do. How to improve their, no, but if they're saying 

[02:28:47] Toliy: that, I'm 

[02:28:47] Eldar: saying if they're saying that, yeah. That means they're getting, they're getting the wrong messages or they're not understanding what you're saying.

[02:28:52] Of course, 

[02:28:52] Mike: because they haven't learned, still they have not changed. Yeah. They still come to me and arrogantly ask me like, what are you doing? What have you done? What's going on? I'm like, guys, we need to focus on this shit. We need to focus on you guys getting better at sales. You guys are doing what You're doing better.

[02:29:07] Yeah. 

[02:29:08] Toliy: Then, then they don't wanna do anything. Yeah. Then to me, like there's some kind of like other conflict here. That's that. 

[02:29:13] Mike: Well, yeah. There's a lot of resentment. 

[02:29:14] Toliy: They're not like, they're not progressing in the lesson that they need to be learning to, they're not progressing in the lesson. Yeah. They're not getting more humble, it sounds like.

[02:29:21] No, they're not. Yeah. So then it sounds like, and I'm 

[02:29:23] Mike: standing here waiting for them. 

[02:29:24] Eldar: Yeah. I don't think, yeah. Again, yeah. They're waiting on you. Yeah. They're waiting on you and you waiting on them. It's like a my, my dad working. How are they waiting on me? How the company 

[02:29:32] Toliy: making 50,000 for 20 plus years.

[02:29:34] Mike: Yeah, but how are they waiting on me? Zero change 

[02:29:36] Toliy: there. 

[02:29:36] Mike: Yeah. How, how are they waiting on me? What have I not done to help them? 

[02:29:39] Eldar: Well, now they're saying it's a marketing thing, right? 

[02:29:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:29:43] Eldar: Are they constantly waiting on something? 

[02:29:44] Mike: Yeah. Well, that's because like there's 

[02:29:45] Eldar: a, there's a wrong impression that the two people, the two parties are on.

[02:29:48] Mike: No, but the thing is, I'm not the one creating, first it was waiting for Donald Trump to fix it. Yeah. Then it's the marketing company. Then it's something else. 

[02:29:54] Eldar: Well, it sounds like they're exactly where they should be. 

[02:29:56] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:29:57] Toliy: Yeah. But you, but it can't be a scenario where it sounds like they're waiting on you.

[02:30:01] They, they're in the impression they're waiting on you, and then you're in the impression that you're waiting on them. Like, that, that to me is like, what, what it sounds like it's, it's, it's a clear disconnect, but every time we 

[02:30:09] Mike: have this conversation, I explain to them that you guys need to focus on your shit.

[02:30:15] And we just, I just told you about this. When he came to me, he had this whole thing with me. I yelled at him and then two days later he came and apologized. Yeah. We just had this a week ago. Yeah. 

[02:30:26] Eldar: Well then you, like I said, you exactly what you should be. They and, and you, if you feel like you, you're not supposed to do it.

[02:30:34] You're supposed to pull the plug. You're supposed to do something. Mm-hmm. That this is the time to do it. 

[02:30:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:30:40] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. This is still tying you. Mm-hmm. This is still causing you stress. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Then you, you have, it's on you then to do like what you need to do. 

[02:30:50] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:30:51] Eldar: Not on them.

[02:30:52] Yeah. But you're just waiting. They're like, they're not learning, they're not being humble, like totally said. They're not changing. Mm-hmm. They're not following orders. Mm-hmm. Right. Directions from the boss. 

[02:31:00] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:31:01] Eldar: Right. Even though you keep giving them the, those directions Yeah. They're not hearing you.

[02:31:05] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:31:05] Eldar: I mean, it is a clear path for you to do what you gotta do. Yeah. But 

[02:31:08] Mike: we had this conversation Yeah. About cutting the plug. Yeah. That means potentially cutting the plug with the family, and we did not wanna do that. 

[02:31:15] Eldar: Correct. 100%. I told you that the separation doesn't have to be, that you're separating, that you're not their son anymore.

[02:31:22] Mike: Yeah. Well, for 

[02:31:23] Eldar: me, I can live with that, but I'm not sure if they can, you know what I'm saying? Well, the, I mean, again, it's a hard choice. I get it. You know what I'm saying? But it's nonetheless your choice. 

[02:31:31] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:31:33] Eldar: You know, but the, the mingling and doing this stuff without really knowing where anyone stands because they keep putting it on you and you keep putting it on them.

[02:31:41] Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's, that's, it's a forever hell, 

[02:31:43] Toliy: it's a forever. Hell yeah. 

[02:31:45] Mike: Yeah. But, but every time we have, well, it's not every, well, it's not with Emma, it's mostly with Gary. Mm-hmm. He's the one who's saying what's up with the marketing company. Mm-hmm. I explained to him, yo, don't worry about this. Mm-hmm.

[02:31:56] Mind your business. Yeah. Focus on you doing your job better. Mm-hmm. Why is, and, and he understands this, and then he apologized. He understands what's happening, but he can't help himself. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? 

[02:32:11] Eldar: Yeah. So what, what should you be doing? 

[02:32:14] Mike: What should I be doing? I'm asking you guys. 

[02:32:15] Eldar: Well, that's, that's what I'm saying though, like, at the end of the day, the com, there's clear, no communi, no proper communication.

[02:32:21] Mm-hmm. Somebody's dropping the ball somewhere. 

[02:32:22] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:32:23] Eldar: You know, this is why you keep losing and this is why you keep having that same stress. 

[02:32:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:32:27] Eldar: You know? 

[02:32:28] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:32:29] Eldar: Yeah. I don't know. You would have to examine it again, you know, like, are they working for free? 

[02:32:35] Mike: Mm. Very minimal. Yeah. They get paid almost nothing.

[02:32:38] Eldar: Why do 

[02:32:39] Toliy: they keep doing it? 

[02:32:40] Mike: I guess. 

[02:32:41] Toliy: Wait, but how do they get paid? Nothing but continue. Like, how do they afford their lives? They get paid nothing. Oh. Gary 

[02:32:46] Mike: had some savings and he is, you know, going through it, Emma also going through it. We're all going through our savings that we had. 

[02:32:53] Toliy: Yeah. But see, like, to to, to the people that are not like, um, like, like headstrong that are gonna actually like, do something about it.

[02:33:02] For example, like them if they feel that, yeah. Like they could internally be feeling like they're waiting on Mike and then they're mingling together, talking about the waiting on Mike and Mike is waiting on them. 

[02:33:13] Mike: Yeah. But the things I'm not waiting on, uh, I'm sending them stuff to do. Actionable steps, how to improve their process, how to, you know, do better, how to speak to clients properly, resources that people are willing to help them to do better.

[02:33:26] Eldar: Then not taking, so that's, so then, so then, I don't know. Yeah. You have to disconnect. You have to like, check out. You, you shouldn't be enduring any type of stress from it then there's no point here. Mm-hmm. What is the point of that? Right? Right. 

[02:33:38] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like there, there, there, there has to be some something else here at like, at, at play.

[02:33:43] Mike: Ask a quick ask. 

[02:33:44] Toliy: I can't picture, I can't picture someone being like terrible at something, for example. And like, it's known that they're terrible at it or they're doing bad at it. 

[02:33:54] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:33:54] Toliy: Right. And here you have another individual giving you like resources and giving you tasks. Mm-hmm. And your salary's cut, you're end savings.

[02:34:03] Right. And you're not doing anything about it. That's, everything's, the ship's still drowning. Yeah. I, I cannot picture that. Like, there, there has to be, 

[02:34:11] Mike: that's exactly what's happening. I mean, Harris is sitting here all day. He doesn't do anything. No, but Harris, you guys are helping 

[02:34:16] Toliy: him. No, but no. Well, well, no, no.

[02:34:19] His, his, his scenario it is completely different. 

[02:34:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. Okay. How, how 

[02:34:26] Eldar: you, what are you comparing? I don't understand. 

[02:34:27] Mike: No, I'm saying like as far as like the person's not having success at their job. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. They're not producing. 

[02:34:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:34:34] Mike: The peop you guys are willing to help him how to be better.

[02:34:36] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:34:37] Mike: And he's not doing 

[02:34:38] Eldar: it. Yeah. You know, the difference is Yeah. I can afford it. Yeah. Well, yeah. The difference is you haven't fired Emma or Dad in the Yeah. In the forever. 

[02:34:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:34:45] Eldar: That's the difference. Oh, I get it. Uh, your, your business cannot afford these people. 

[02:34:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:34:50] Eldar: And it shouldn't. 

[02:34:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:34:53] Eldar: You know why it's affording it.

[02:34:54] Mm-hmm. Because they're family. 

[02:34:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:34:55] Eldar: Of course. That's it. 

[02:34:56] Mike: Sure. 

[02:34:57] Eldar: I agree. 

[02:34:58] Mike: I 

[02:34:58] Eldar: can have a project. 

[02:34:59] Mike: Yeah. You can't. No, I get that. I'm not, I'm not saying anything about that. Yeah. I'm not trying. It needs a hundred 

[02:35:04] Toliy: thousand dollars salary. Yeah. I'm not to survive, for example. But then we say we can't about 

[02:35:08] Eldar: that. I'm just saying.

[02:35:08] No, no, but you're making some, I don't know what comparison you're making or what you're drawing 

[02:35:12] Mike: from it, but he's saying that a person who's not being successful, not doing much. Yeah. Not taking the advice. Sure. He's he's getting a salary. Yeah. And he's not burning down his savings. But several of those things that you mentioned, he is doing what, what, 

[02:35:24] Toliy: who, who is Harris?

[02:35:27] No, but Harris's scenario has like nothing to do with it. Okay. I apologize. I take it back. No, no, no. I'm 

[02:35:33] Mike: sorry that I offended you older. 

[02:35:34] Eldar: No, no, I, no, I'm, I'm trying to understand how, where's the 

[02:35:36] Mike: comparison? I was wrong. I'm sorry. 

[02:35:40] Eldar: No, but like, I need to understand it. You need to understand it too for yourself that you threw that out again.

[02:35:44] Yeah. It's 

[02:35:44] Toliy: like a disrespect thing. I'm, I'm trying to figure out like, uh, like, like I'm actually trying to understand the actual Yeah. What's the comparison? Well, the things you said that the person is Yeah. Is, is, 

[02:35:52] Mike: uh, not, not, not a, not good at their job. Okay. Is this correct? Yeah. That Harris's not good his job.

[02:35:58] Correct. Uh, is it correct that you guys are willing to help him? Correct. And he is not taking the help? Yeah. 

[02:36:03] Eldar: Well, what do you mean he's not taking the help? Well, no. Yeah. Yeah. Well, wait. Yeah. I mean, how is he not taking the help? I'm helping him and he is taking my help. Oh, 

[02:36:10] Speaker 20: okay. 

[02:36:11] Eldar: Yeah. What, what impression are you under here?

[02:36:12] Like, tell me about him not accepting my help or taking my help. Well, uh, 

[02:36:17] Mike: the small wins that you guys created, he's doing those. 

[02:36:19] Eldar: Yeah, 

[02:36:20] Mike: he is. He is. Oh, okay. I didn't know. Well, 

[02:36:23] Eldar: I just thought that the rhetoric is the same. No, you have a wrong impression completely here. Okay. Yeah. Like explain to me again, what is he not taking for help when it comes to like, me helping him directly?

[02:36:32] How I'm helping him? Like what things that you don't see that I need to explain to you that he actually is getting help, so then you can, you can change that mindset. 

[02:36:39] Mike: Well, I just thought that especially we're gonna start with to he wasn't doing any of the stuff that Toley was telling him. Now what you're doing.

[02:36:46] Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I apologize. I'm helping him every single day. I'm sorry. I was wrong. Yeah. 

[02:36:51] Toliy: Yeah. I mean, he, he's definitely not doing all the small wins like every single day, but he's doing, he, he's definitely, he's, he's not No, no, no. 

[02:36:58] Eldar: The way you portrayed Gary, for example. Yeah. Right. The way he portrayed it, right.

[02:37:01] Yeah. And that's why he totally said what he said. Yeah. And then he's trying to rebuttal with the Harris thing. I just don't think this, this is a good example of what's actually Yeah. About the, about the fact that you 

[02:37:10] Mike: guys have the money to spend. Sure. No problem. Yeah. Is he doing his math? No. Is he, bro, I see him all the time.

[02:37:15] He's on the phone. He's not doing his work. I mean, like, I, what, he's not, he's not here. 

[02:37:23] Eldar: If he was here, he would defend himself that he is taking in what I'm giving him. Sure. And so would Gary, Gary would say, bro, I'm working my ass off. So then you have the wrong impression. You are the one who's giving him, saying that they're not doing anything.

[02:37:34] Yeah. You are the wrong, the wrong impression here. They're doing something Well, and you can't, you, you can, I, I'm not sitting here saying that he's not doing anything. He's doing some stuff. Is he good at it? No, he's not good at it. Is he learning? Maybe very slowly. Well, yeah. That's, you know what I'm saying?

[02:37:51] That's why you, I can afford it. Yeah, sure. You know what I'm saying? The way, the way you're saying is that, Hey, this guy's not doing anything. Everything's getting even worse. Like this is a disaster. 

[02:38:00] Mike: Yeah, 

[02:38:00] Eldar: sure. I don't have a disaster here, so the comparison is completely wrong. 

[02:38:03] Mike: Sure. But, but the fact that you can afford it.

[02:38:07] Sure. I get that. Yeah. I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I get it. I was wrong about that. But just because you can't afford it, it's this like, uh, that's separate from the other stuff. What other stuff? The stuff that he's not, like, the stuff that I said, they're not progressing Uhhuh, they're not doing better.

[02:38:25] They have resources, not taking advantage of it. They're not doing the stuff that they're supposed to be doing. Okay. They're doing other stuff. The stuff that Gary's sitting, he's watching his news. That's what he wants to 

[02:38:34] Eldar: do. Well, sure. But like, like I said, like it's not, it's not a comparison here. Like when Toley is making that comparison, he's saying like, look, there's a clear disconnect.

[02:38:42] You know, you're saying he's not doing anything, but then he's getting a salary or something's getting paid, like what's happening here. 

[02:38:48] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:38:49] Eldar: You know what I mean? Like, there's complete disconnect, you know? 

[02:38:52] Mike: Yeah, 

[02:38:53] Eldar: I know. We have a disconnect with Harris. It's clear. Yeah. For sure. Mm-hmm. But I'm not gonna have the same testimony that you have against Gary, for example.

[02:39:01] Sure. It's not true. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I 

[02:39:04] Mike: understand what's happening with Harris. Yeah. Like I get the whole, I understand the bigger picture, but 

[02:39:08] Eldar: plus like, if there was no potential, Mike, you've seen this before with me, where it's like, if there's people who come to a conclusion that it's finally like, yo, this shit is over, I have no problem letting them go.

[02:39:17] Mike: Mm-hmm. Sure. 

[02:39:18] Eldar: There's plenty people came to this company and left this company because they, they were really just showed like, that's it. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Sure. And like if he gets to that point, I'll also let him go. I get it. I have no problem with that. 

[02:39:29] Mike: I understand. But right 

[02:39:30] Eldar: now he's still raising his hand.

[02:39:32] He's asking for help. We're talking, we're doing all this stuff. Mm-hmm. Like, yeah, sure. It's very small, but steps. But there are steps and I'm, I'm, I'm okay with it. Yeah. I'm okay with it. No, I know you. If I wasn't okay with it. Yeah. You know, I, I'd be telling totally. I'd be telling you. I'll be saying like, yo, yo, this is crazy.

[02:39:47] This is bad. Mm-hmm. I'm not doing that. No, I know. You're not, you're doing that by Gary. Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:39:51] Toliy: All all, yeah. And, and, and like the, the affording thing is that like Yeah. Like we can act, obviously, like afford the, like the project of what's going on. Mm-hmm. But, um, he can also afford it. That's also a big difference.

[02:40:05] Yeah. What's going on? He can afford. Mm-hmm. Gary can't, the business can't afford, uh, them and they can't, and they can't afford to not do well. Mm-hmm. Harris. Yeah. And they not on the right impression. Like, like that. Yeah. Like Harris, Harris has a roof. He has have to pay really rent. He could fuck around. He could fuck around.

[02:40:21] He, he, he's living like more of like the younger kid scenario. 

[02:40:24] Mike: I was more so scenario going towards other stuff, not about the affording stuff. I was more talking about the fact that the person has the resources and they're not taking to them or they're taking them very little and that's what's happening.

[02:40:37] Eldar: Yeah. But you were saying you were shooting toll's thing at Toll's thing of what to said to you, you know? Mm-hmm. You made that example because Toley said that, you know, like he's making a contract showing you that, you're saying like, yo, like you said that Gary's doing nothing. 

[02:40:49] Mike: Mm-hmm. You know what I 

[02:40:51] Eldar: mean?

[02:40:51] He's doing something but 

[02:40:51] Mike: he's not doing enough, you know? Yeah. He's booking jobs, but like when Yeah. There's not a Yeah. Enough to sustain anything. 

[02:40:58] Eldar: Yeah. You know? Yeah. But again, like the, the pressure or non-pressure that is being applied to Harris mm-hmm. Here it is warranted, it is not warranted of what kind of pressure Gary is receiving or not receiving on your end.

[02:41:13] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:41:14] Eldar: Like it's unacceptable. 

[02:41:15] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:41:16] Eldar: Right. Yeah. It's unacceptable. Yeah. So that's what's totally saying. There's some kind of a disconnect here. 

[02:41:21] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. And if people are saying again, like about, and, and they're putting it on you, what's up with the leads? Yeah. Like, that means, again, they're, they're waiting.

[02:41:27] Someone is like some, someone is saying like, Hey, we have shovels. We can't, we can't do work. We, we, we need some something to shovel because of you. Right. Yeah. Because of you. Like, that's the impression that the other people are on. 

[02:41:37] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:41:38] Toliy: Right. So like, um, yeah, like there, there probably has to be a lot more like, closely of working together and closely of figuring out like what's actually going on or like, or firing, obviously.

[02:41:52] Mm-hmm. Uh, of, of, of people. But like, um. Yeah. Like I feel, I mean, again, like for me to probably, like, for me to help like better or like understand what to say, like I would definitely need to know like a more clearer picture. Then I'd probably have to examine mm-hmm. To see what everyone's actually doing and what's, what's actually happening.

[02:42:14] But like, yeah, like, like the, the beginning of what I was saying is that I can't picture scenario where people's like, like, like I, I, I can only envision if I'm like a transactional person in that kind of way. For example. Like they more, more, more are, for example. Mm-hmm. My salary's getting cut, like everyone is on the same page saying that like, the business is, everything is bad, everything is bad, and, uh, I'm being thrown amazing resources.

[02:42:38] No, the I'm just not impression is 

[02:42:40] Eldar: completely is incorrect. 

[02:42:41] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Like 

[02:42:41] Eldar: that, it's completely incorrect here. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Somebody's not getting it. Yeah. You are getting it, but they're not receiving it or you're not communicating it then, right. Yeah. That's what's 

[02:42:50] Toliy: happening. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, there, there, there, there's some kind of massive, there's disconnect here, you know, is how I feel.

[02:42:57] Well, yeah, and how many times we talked 

[02:42:59] Eldar: about that, so you can then even put stuff in writing. Just recently you even said, Hey, yeah, like, we speak about these things and then they're nowhere to be found, so like, 

[02:43:07] Speaker 21: yeah. 

[02:43:07] Eldar: It's, nothing is sticking. So he is like, I'm gonna start writing shit out. I'm like, that's a good idea.

[02:43:11] Mm-hmm. 

[02:43:11] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[02:43:12] Eldar: That's just shows that the impression is completely incorrect. Yeah. Yeah. Ha Then then if the impression's completely incorrect, sooner or later, one side or another has to take a stance, right? Yeah. Because you can't be like, under the wrong impression this whole time and be, and be, uh, stressed out over it.

[02:43:31] Yeah. Why is it on you, right? Yeah. Yeah. If you under the right impression, if you doing all the right things, if you're documenting everything, if you're trying to train, if you always available, if you, if you're giving them resources, then, then why are you in this? Hell, why are you in this? Hell. You have to answer that to yourself.

[02:43:49] Yeah. Yeah. That, that, that, that's a very important question, of course, is why Yeah. Why are you, why am I in this fucking hell with you? Yeah. With you guys. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and then the next level is that they're under the, the impression that he's doing something wrong. Like this is the crazy impression.

[02:44:06] Yeah. Mm-hmm. So there's that dynamic that is clashing at one another. He's waiting for something and they're waiting for something. Yes. Of course. It's like a, like, well, what is this? Yeah. 

[02:44:15] Speaker 19: Mm-hmm. You know?

[02:44:24] Yeah. Uh, I mean, with Harris, 

[02:44:26] Eldar: uh, the impression, the impression's pretty clear. 

[02:44:29] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:44:30] Eldar: No. Have we not made it clear to Harris that, uh, you are a whole mm-hmm. Yeah. And, 

[02:44:37] Toliy: and yeah. And sometimes he doesn't understand it, and we have to Yeah. Reinforce, we have to remind him of that. Re reinforce it, 

[02:44:41] Eldar: reinforce it, and explain to him, Hey, bro, like, we're doing you a favor.

[02:44:44] You are in college, you are learning, and hopefully one day you're gonna be able to bring something back. 

[02:44:48] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[02:44:49] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[02:44:50] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[02:44:50] Eldar: Hopefully we're not holding 

[02:44:52] Toliy: our breath 

[02:44:52] Eldar: yet, but we're, yeah. 

[02:44:52] Toliy: And this is only again, possible again, like if, if, if, if Harris was like in, in like John's situation, he had two, like two or three kids.

[02:45:01] Two kids, yeah. Bills to pay a house and a wife, then like this, this obviously wouldn't be possible right now. Mm-hmm. But maybe if, yeah. If we had like 20 million in revenue, may maybe it would be possible obviously then on that scale Exactly right. With the family, depending on what you can actually like Yeah.

[02:45:15] Of, of afford, like Yeah, yeah. Like the patient's level and the, uh, and, and like, um, like, like there, yeah, there, there's definitely a way higher likelihood of like, like, uh, um. Him, not him, him realizing something then us not being able to afford him, for example. Yeah. Like that, that, that other Fs is shorter.

[02:45:36] Mike: Yeah. I'm saying if you guys didn't have the money and you couldn't afford it, you know, we wouldn't have even taken this on. Yeah, I know. But Yeah. But when the time, but what if things changed in the process and there was the system, then you would have to re revalue to have that conversation. 

[02:45:49] Eldar: Yeah, yeah.

[02:45:50] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. There's clear, clearly then there's not enough conversations that you are having and you're standing on business there. Mm-hmm. Where you can finally open their eyes and say, yo, what the fuck? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. They're clearly just kinda like hanging on and like hanging on and hanging on, hanging on and hanging on and you're like, what the fuck?

[02:46:06] No. But I 

[02:46:07] Mike: don't know if it's, if it's me, if it's them, but it is just the whole everything, every, the entire dynamic. And I'm sure maybe it's me, maybe it's them, uh, but it's also the dynamic with Francisco and his situation and the way everybody's taking it. Everybody's tired, they're stressed, they finished, they're mentally shot.

[02:46:22] Yeah. It doesn't help. Yeah. It doesn't help you to perform at work, uh, or in life when you have this kind of very difficult situation and they all frustrated and gave up on it. 

[02:46:32] Eldar: Yeah. But again, you know, we find the scapegoat Francisco here to say like, this is Francisco's fault kind of thing. 

[02:46:37] Mike: Oh. I'm not saying it's his fault.

[02:46:38] I know it's a fault. It's, I know it's a contributing factor. It's a huge factor for sure. For it is a huge factor. And for them it's huge. Mm-hmm. And, and their inability to deal with it. Yeah. It makes it even huge. Mm-hmm. Even bigger, you know, and it just, I mean, bro, Emma is dumb. She doesn't ask for resources from the government.

[02:46:57] She doesn't ask resources for him. Go, you know? Yeah. My dad feels bad for Emma. My, I don't care about 

[02:47:02] Eldar: all that stuff. I've heard it thousand times, Mike. 

[02:47:04] Mike: Yeah. Why do you have to suffer from it? I don't know. Why do I have to suffer from it all there? Well, there, you me. 

[02:47:08] Eldar: Well, there go, I'm, I'm asking you then, right?

[02:47:10] You saying that? Hey, alright. I tell, well, you guys said 

[02:47:13] Mike: I deserve 

[02:47:13] Eldar: it and I agree 

[02:47:13] Mike: with you guys, 

[02:47:15] Eldar: you 

[02:47:15] Mike: know. No, 

[02:47:15] Eldar: you've 

[02:47:15] Toliy: made, yeah. But 

[02:47:16] Mike: finally Right. Would you agree? Then 

[02:47:17] Toliy: you have to, you then you would be able to say like, why, why you deserve to suffer from it. 

[02:47:22] Mike: Why do I deserve to suffer from it? Yeah. I know for sure I'm the one who created a situation, Uhhuh, I have these relationships situation.

[02:47:28] Toliy: I have the relationship with these people. No, but I'm saying that like now, like why do you now like, like, like forget about what happened years ago. Mm-hmm. Right from the very beginning. Yeah. I'm saying like, now, why do you have to suffer on the level that you're suffering now from that sit situation now?

[02:47:44] Yeah. But because I'm still living out the ripples of those choices. No. Yeah. I think it 

[02:47:48] Eldar: No, but you're doing, you, you're moving into the right direction of the way you are now. Right? You are, you are more honest. You're not spending the money. You are, you are a resource. You're trying to help, you're doing all the right stuff.

[02:47:58] Mm-hmm. You're supposed to have better results, so then if you're not, right. Mm-hmm. If you don't have participating factors, the individuals who are with you, who are not seeing you or whatever, you need to pull the plug. 

[02:48:12] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:48:15] Eldar: Right? Are you deserving then, the way you are as a character now to have a better life now outside of what they're doing?

[02:48:21] Because how long are you gonna keep saying, saying that? I'm like, well, I'm not sure 

[02:48:25] Mike: if I can answer. You guys called me arrogant earlier, so I don't want to misspeak here. Well, no, no, but this is a big question for you, for 

[02:48:30] Eldar: your, for your 

[02:48:31] Mike: wellbeing and for your sanity. Maybe you guys need to ask me questions and I can give you answers, and then we can figure it out.

[02:48:36] You know, if I deserve, again, Mike, I think that 

[02:48:38] Eldar: we, we had this conversation three years ago when we came with the plan, or two years ago, whatever. Mm-hmm. You have to ask yourself whether or not you've done everything that was possible that was needed. You did right by them. Right. And finally, to be able to one day free yourself and journey your own life for yourself outside of your family's crazy dynamic, as you said.

[02:48:57] Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? If that's finally your case, then you have to be very serious about thinking about what your next steps are. 

[02:49:04] Mike: How do I answer that question? If I've done enough, if I tried enough to, to help them to succeed so I can finally be free, 

[02:49:12] Eldar: how will you know? Well, how, how, like. I don't know.

[02:49:15] Think about it. Like picture, you pull picture, you having a conversation with them and saying, Hey guys, like I'm gonna go and find way. 

[02:49:21] Mike: No, that conversation I get, but how do I have the conversation with myself to see if I've done 

[02:49:25] Eldar: enough to give them? Well, well you have to be honest with yourself. You have to ask yourself, have I done enough?

[02:49:31] Have you tried enough? Well, what's what, what, what are, what are the stones that you have not turned, uh, turned and, and lifted 

[02:49:36] Mike: off? The only thing I haven't done is come in there and do sales for them probably. 

[02:49:41] Eldar: Yeah. But that's like saying like, you're gonna do everything then. Yeah. Then what do you need them for?

[02:49:45] Yeah. If they're the one who charge sales, only thing 

[02:49:47] Mike: I haven't done, I haven't done sales, but

[02:49:54] Speaker 19: Yeah. You 

[02:49:56] Eldar: know, if you did 

[02:49:57] Toliy: everything. I haven't. I haven't. What are you saying though, Mike, though? Um, you're saying that if, if like the leads are getting now the amount of calls they're getting now mm-hmm. Everything that's happening now mm-hmm. But you take over their role, the business will succeed. 

[02:50:12] Mike: Um, if I start doing sales, yeah.

[02:50:15] I mean, I'm, I know sales, I'm doing the company so the business will 

[02:50:18] Toliy: succeed 

[02:50:18] Mike: if I do sales. Yeah. 

[02:50:20] Toliy: Giving the what gi g given like every, like the current situation now with like, without them and like Yeah, like you, you took over their role. Like they were like, like they were like, like okay. Just I imagine a world, okay.

[02:50:34] Where, where let's say Gary and Emma mm-hmm. Are as good as you. It, it sales. 

[02:50:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. Okay. 

[02:50:40] Toliy: How do, what happens to the business now, the business can do good in, in the current climate? 

[02:50:44] Mike: Yes, bro. 

[02:50:45] Toliy: Yeah. Then they, they're not empowered enough. 

[02:50:47] Mike: The people, the others not fired the other companies, but they need to get fired.

[02:50:51] The other companies are buying li limos and buses left and right. So what do you suggest? Well, 

[02:50:56] Toliy: like if like to to to to, to me like if, if, if, if that was true, right? Yeah. If that was true, and if you're the leader, then they would have to, they, they need to be like, they need to be taught better and they need to be empowered.

[02:51:10] Better to do, to do well. Yeah, but like, but if, because if just switch, if you're telling, you just switch one, one variable and that's it, it means that they don't know how to properly do their job. What do you mean one variable? Well, the variable of, of, of like, for example, Mike doing it versus them. Yeah.

[02:51:26] But it's a big variable. Well, well, yeah, of course. But then like, if you have a person in the company that, like if 

[02:51:33] Mike: you ask the, no, 

[02:51:33] Toliy: I 

[02:51:33] Mike: guess totally doesn't know. But the whole, the whole story. But it wasn't this bad when COVID was like before co, before after COVID, everything was good. Emma was doing well, she was bringing in good amount of sales.

[02:51:44] Gary was not bringing in a lot. Mm-hmm. Not crazy, but everything was fine, right? Yeah. Like it was sustainable. The business is profitable. Yeah. But in 2023 or 2022, whatever, maybe somewhere in between there, it started getting worse, you know? Um, Gary is very, was very stuck. He was crazy. Shot in the news. He would all day, he just sits and watches the news.

[02:52:09] He still does this now all day. He sits and watches the news, right. All day complaining about the fucking, you know, the Democrats or whatever, whoever he is complaining about, you know, blaming the economy. They ruined the economy. Right. Okay. 

[02:52:23] Speaker 20: Okay. 

[02:52:23] Mike: All right. Um, Emma's distracted with my mom driving around the malls.

[02:52:28] I guess maybe, you know, more free time, I don't know. But they started moving. Different people became different too. People interact differently. They did not want to improve the way that they work. Okay. You know, they just wanted to blame the external factors. 

[02:52:45] Toliy: Okay. And if you were to ask them, if they were to say, why, why are we not doing well?

[02:52:51] What would their answers be right now? 

[02:52:54] Mike: Uh, they would, they would say we don't have, um, we don't have a leader. We don't have a boss. Okay. Okay. Uhhuh. Okay. They would say that, um, the economy's bad. 

[02:53:06] Toliy: So we don't, we, we don't have a leader. Yeah. Probably some 

[02:53:08] Mike: conspiracy theories. Some conspiracy theories. 

[02:53:11] Toliy: Yeah.

[02:53:11] Mike: Okay. Um, not enough booking. Not enough leads. Not enough 

[02:53:16] Toliy: leads. 

[02:53:16] Mike: Okay. Yeah. I think that's the big ones. Yeah. 

[02:53:18] Toliy: Okay. So, I mean, tackling the conspiracy theories. Okay. But the, that thing that there's not enough leads and that they don't have a, like, they don't have a leader, which means that they want a leader to be led.

[02:53:30] Mike: Yes. 

[02:53:31] Toliy: Right? Mm-hmm. Um, 

[02:53:33] Mike: yeah. But the thing is, if you want to be a leader and you wanna be led, then you have to align yourself properly. Every time we try to have these things, what's happens in the conversations. 

[02:53:44] Toliy: Yeah. But I think that like, to, to leave them with a successful scenario. Like, like, like one you have to lead by example, and then two, like you have to be there in the trenches, like with them.

[02:53:55] Right? Like if, like, if they're doing their sales thing and it's not panning out, they're doing terrible. And Mike says, yo, that's it. Going forward, I'm taking over this. And then he crushes it, right? Like, I can't picture up like any person out there that would not wanna, that, that is not gonna be ready to like, figure out, wait, what'd you do different?

[02:54:17] Right. Or like, like, they're like, uh, like, like if, if they're actually like, bad at what they're doing that they need to be taught properly how to do things Oh, yeah. To, and another thing, sorry. Totally. To, 

[02:54:29] Mike: to another huge factor. Yeah. They also have a problem that they're very worried what I'm doing, and then I'm not doing anything all day and they have a certain feeling about it.

[02:54:42] Okay. You know, and then they doing like a revenge thing and a resentment thing. Okay. And that is a big driving factor. Okay. About how they feel about me. About the whole thing. About everything. Okay. 

[02:54:57] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like there just needs, like, there needs to be like a, like a restructuring, a retraining. Show them how it's done thing, and then like, and then after all that, if they bring it back down or they're not successful from it, then they're clearly not wanting to do, do shit.

[02:55:12] Eldar: Well, 

[02:55:12] Toliy: yeah, but I think you need to be there in a trenches. 

[02:55:17] Speaker 19: Like, I mean, there's no way around that.

[02:55:22] Toliy: Like if, if they're, if, if they know what's going on now and someone says, Hey, that's it, I'm taking over this job, I'm gonna show you, show you how it's done, and he crushes it. There's no way you can open your mouth. No way. Okay. And then what, how you do that, Mike? What, what, what, what do we need to do? What, what are you doing differently?

[02:55:41] Well, there's no way. That's 

[02:55:43] Eldar: the best case 

[02:55:43] Toliy: scenario. 

[02:55:44] Eldar: Yes. No, no. 

[02:55:44] Toliy: But how can you, 

[02:55:45] Eldar: that there's gonna stop? How can you, 

[02:55:47] Toliy: what, what are you gonna say? 

[02:55:49] Eldar: Well, it doesn't matter what you're gonna say, but the thing is, the only thing, yeah. The only thing you are, what you're doing is you, you're gonna prevent from them giving you negative comments, right?

[02:55:58] No. You're finally gonna say, no, no, 

[02:55:59] Toliy: no, no. You're gonna show them that like, Hey, we're not gonna change anything right now, but I'm gonna handle this. Right. And I'm gonna show you that you guys are not, that you guys are incompetent and that you guys are not doing anything. You've been asking all this time.

[02:56:12] What am I doing? Well, I'm gonna be doing this and then you do it. Well, whatcha gonna say You can't say anything. You're 

[02:56:20] Eldar: not gonna say anything. Yeah. But what is that gonna change? Yeah, but 

[02:56:21] Toliy: what? 

[02:56:22] Eldar: Yeah, but this is not gonna make them into the same salesman. 

[02:56:24] Toliy: Yeah. Well, yeah. But then you know that it's, uh, but then it's very clear in your face that, Hey, but what, what?

[02:56:29] That it's on you, but not me. 

[02:56:31] Eldar: But what? But yeah, but like Sure. But at the end of the day, if that doesn't change. If they don't change, right. You have to take a stance. 

[02:56:38] Toliy: Yeah. Stance. But then you can, yeah. But then you can safely take your stance with no if, ands, or butts. 

[02:56:43] Eldar: Okay. So there you go. No, this is how you take the stance.

[02:56:46] Toliy: No, no, for sure. A hundred percent. Anna. Six months ago I did your job. And I, and I was doing it pretty damn well. Yeah. You seem to not be wanting to learn from me. Yeah. You, you, yeah. So I have no problem with you doing it in the way you wanna do things and that Gary wants to do things somewhere else.

[02:57:01] Right. But, but I have a life to live. I need savings. Bye. Right. I I I I'm, I'm not being paid enough here. That's right. Right. That's right. You guys are not performing. Yeah. Right. To the level that I was performing when I was doing this. That's right. That's right. Right? Mm-hmm. 

[02:57:15] Eldar: If that's a reminder that they need, that's the thing that you need in order to remove maybe a guilty conscience that you might have, you might have to do that.

[02:57:25] Toliy: Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Like what can people, what kind of response can people have to someone who's crushing it in the realm that they were just dual shitting the bed? And you have now an individual person who says like, Hey, I'm actually gonna show that I'm gonna 

[02:57:38] Eldar: do everything you guys don't need to do.

[02:57:39] I know what Gary's gonna say. What? Well, the truth of the matter is that can be easy to prove out. I mean, like that's, he could prove that out, but like, what is Gary gonna say? 

[02:57:46] Mike: He's gonna say, see, you should I told you I I should do this two years ago

[02:57:56] then Okay. Yeah. He is gonna, it is still gonna be, I'm the one who's to blame why the last two years the business was doing terrible, regardless. It is never gonna be like, oh, 

[02:58:06] Toliy: okay. So what they, they, so are they doing a role that they don't wanna be doing? 

[02:58:10] Mike: No, I don't, I don't know. I mean, 

[02:58:13] Toliy: because like, if you say not, they don't want to be doing, say they don't wanna be doing this, right?

[02:58:15] No, they're not. They don't, they wanna be doing a different role then, right? 

[02:58:18] Mike: No, they don't want to. They don't want to, uh, I don't know if they don't want to do this role, but they don't want to, like, Gary does not want to do something to improve it. At least that's what the standpoint is. Like 

[02:58:29] Toliy: why does, why does Gary want you to do it?

[02:58:33] Mike: Mm, because of, because he has some kind of feelings towards me because he doesn't feel like I'm doing enough. 

[02:58:38] Toliy: Okay. So if you do that role, what would be his role then? 

[02:58:42] Eldar: I 

[02:58:43] Mike: don't 

[02:58:43] Eldar: know. Then 

[02:58:44] we 

[02:58:45] Eldar: need to figure this 

[02:58:45] Toliy: stuff out. Yeah. There's, yeah, 

[02:58:47] Eldar: there's just like a wrong impression here and everybody under that wrong impression.

[02:58:50] Like, 

[02:58:50] Toliy: if I'm failing at something, I don't like go to like, okay, I want Elder to actually do sales. Like, I don't want elder to do sales. Mm-hmm. I don't. 

[02:58:57] Speaker 19: Yeah.

[02:59:02] You know, but 

[02:59:04] Toliy: if I didn't, if I didn't want to do what I was doing then, but like, then it would be a situation where I feel like, like he's better than me at it, but doesn't wanna do it like, or something. Right. Mm-hmm. That I could be like, you're, you're, you're throwing me out to like the piranhas here, right?

[02:59:18] Mm-hmm. 

[02:59:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:59:19] Toliy: Well, you have, you. That's exactly what's they probably feel. How about what's happening? 

[02:59:22] Speaker 20: Yeah. 

[02:59:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:59:23] Speaker 20: Yeah. But 

[02:59:24] Mike: if sells, what are they gonna do? What does Garrigan do? What does them gonna do? 

[02:59:27] Toliy: Well, we need to figure out roles. 

[02:59:28] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[02:59:30] Toliy: We need to figure out roles. That's a, that's been a standing question.

[02:59:33] Yeah. Yeah. We need to figure 

[02:59:34] Mike: out roles. Yeah. We need, everyone needs to have their jobs, but the people are not willing to 

[02:59:38] Eldar: do that. Totally nots it. That, that's it. If, if you are concluded that Mike, it's a time for you to say, how long, and I'm willing to endure this. Hell, in order to finally free myself from it.

[02:59:48] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[02:59:49] Eldar: Yeah. I told, 

[02:59:51] Mike: like the resources I send, we had conversations like, uh, elder knows this, uh, my, uh, my dad. I was like, yo, you used to go to these chamber meetings, you know, these chamber commerce meetings. Mm-hmm. And we had, we had success. 

[03:00:02] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[03:00:03] Mike: We had accounts. Okay. You know, he said, oh, I don't feel comfortable lying to these people.

[03:00:08] We don't have a fleet. That was one thing. That was one, that's not even the ridiculous one. The second one, it goes, oh yeah, these guys, they're democrats. I don't want to go to their meetings. Okay. You know? No problem. There's ridiculous. Like, your personal life is at stake here. You are fucking eating and you worried about Democrats or Republicans, you know, and he banned those.

[03:00:27] Yeah. 

[03:00:27] Toliy: But yeah, but either then you have to die on that shield. Yeah. Right. That, Hey, I'm just gonna. Fail. I'm just gonna fail and we're gonna like, I don't know, starve, go in like a, like a, like a nursing home because I don't wanna work with Democrats, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I, I, I don't, like, I can't picture we go us going there.

[03:00:45] Mike: No, he's, he's, this is what he's expressed to me. I'm not like, uh, making this up or predicting what's gonna happen. Yeah. This is what he's actually said. He banned the chamber because they were against his political views. And I asked him like, what are you doing? We need to, we need to do the business. He's like, I, uh, you know, I don't, I don't want to go with those people because they're all Democrats or whatever.

[03:01:05] Eldar: Okay. 

[03:01:06] Mike: I mean, you know. Okay.

[03:01:10] He has his things that he's stuck on and those are important. He's on that Mickey Mantle's gonna pay my rent flow. You know, those, those guys are gonna pay his rent. Yeah, but you're not, 

[03:01:19] Toliy: you're like, you're not allowing that to play out. Yeah. You either have to allow it to play out. I did. And make, I did, I 

[03:01:23] Mike: did.

[03:01:23] He said, when Trump comes to presidency, everything will be fine. And I asked him, I was like, so Trump's in office, everything okay now? And what does he say? What do you think he says? He didn't say anything. 

[03:01:35] Toliy: Yeah. But then like, yeah, you either have to allow them to completely fail and like, and that is what it's have zero money go bankrupt.

[03:01:41] Yeah. You just have to sell a house. Yeah. Sell the house, move, move into something smaller and live and like, you know, everyone goes their separate ways. 

[03:01:48] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:01:49] Toliy: And that's it. Or, or you need to go into the trenches, like be the leader by example, um, bring it to prosperity, be in there with them, work, working together at it.

[03:02:02] Everybody has their established roles. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, yeah, everyone has, has, has their established roles and then they're doing them. And then if you need to hire someone else to do sales instead of you, after you bring it back, they're gonna continue doing those roles. Mm-hmm. And then like, then, then, then, then the scenario is different, but like, yeah, you definitely like, like.

[03:02:25] Like a sales person, uh, someone who's in charge of sales, who's a asking a question about, uh, like, like if stuff are bad and they're doing, um, like, um, and, and like they're asking you like, about the marketing company or like leads, and they're like, they Yeah. They feel that like they don't have enough to work with.

[03:02:43] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, that's, that's what they saying, you know, but when there was no problem with the leads or the, or the, in incoming stuff and they weren't closing leads, what was the problem with that? Right. What's the problem then? 

[03:02:55] Eldar: Uh, it's just every 

[03:02:55] Mike: time 

[03:02:55] Eldar: they're finding new, 

[03:02:57] Mike: they're gonna keep finding new shit.

[03:02:58] Totally. Yeah. Yeah. But there, there has be, I've been sending, I've been 

[03:03:00] Eldar: sending these reports for 

[03:03:01] Mike: No, 

[03:03:01] Eldar: the question is, the question is from Mike. The Mike. Like, what, how long are you willing to then endure to be in this like, limbo state of not knowing where anything stands? Because it's clearly weighing on him.

[03:03:12] Mm-hmm. It's clearly he's in hell. He's clearly feeling this way. Yeah. It's either you, you put up or you shut up. That's it. Yeah. 

[03:03:20] Mike: You 

[03:03:20] Eldar: know? 

[03:03:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:03:22] Yeah. Yeah. But you asked me how I felt like I'd done enough to Yeah. To disconnect. Yeah. But what do I have to, how do I answer that question honestly? 

[03:03:32] Eldar: Well, to myself, it's how you feel inside, internally, right.

[03:03:36] About everything that's done. You take the inventory and you say, you know, like, is this this finally my time to finally branch out for do my own thing? Um, and am I okay with the repercussions or consequences behind it? 

[03:03:48] Speaker 19: Mm-hmm.

[03:03:52] Eldar: Yeah. Is it something that you have to do for yourself for self preservation? 

[03:03:55] Mike: I do. And I think, I thought that was part of the plan. What, what we're trying to do. Yeah. And eventually we would get them to a good place because they would, you know, we were, well, yeah. We were expecting them. 

[03:04:04] Eldar: We were, we were more maybe optimistic about the fact that yes, we're optimistic when they do come to you, which they did, you are gonna show them the way.

[03:04:10] Mm-hmm. Help them empower them. Yeah. Which they didn't take, like you said. 

[03:04:14] Mike: Yeah. 

[03:04:15] Eldar: And you know, and then they'll be fine. They'll be flourished, and then you can just pull out. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But that didn't happen and didn't go that way. 

[03:04:22] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like. You have, you know, like you have to be there in like the, the trenches.

[03:04:29] Ready, ready, ready to help and be there and be there every day. Willing to help. Right. And remind them, Hey, like, like look, you gotta have almost that conversation every day. Like, Hey, yeah. We're in a bad, bad place. Yeah. I told you this. Yeah. Who's ready to learn? Yeah. What's going on? Who's going to do your shit?

[03:04:46] Yeah. Correct. What, what's going on here? Yeah. And if you have people that are like watching TV and doing that. Yeah. Going to the mall. Yeah. Then, then you're, you, you, you, you can't have a guilty conscience. You cannot, it's impossible. Can't have them. You, you're gonna have someone with their feet like this up in the air while you ready to help.

[03:05:03] Yeah. Fuck yeah. I'm outta here. Yeah. Yeah. You'll, you'll have no feelings towards it. Zero. Yeah. But if you have feelings towards it, then obviously you, you, you don't feel that way, you know? 

[03:05:17] Mike: Oh, yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I feel that way. I not 

[03:05:23] Eldar: Yeah. Think about it, 

[03:05:24] Mike: you know? 

[03:05:26] Eldar: Yeah. You have to be empowered.

[03:05:28] And we talked about this. Mm-hmm. You have to be like totally said, if you clearly see that there's zero effort, uh, despite the fact that you're constantly offering, because you keep saying that you are. Right. I mean, I know at some point you even reached out to toll at some point and me or whatever. But if there's really zero effort or um, no follow through them, then no, I have not seen 

[03:05:47] Mike: them trying to like, then, then, then, then that's it improve their process 

[03:05:51] Eldar: up.

[03:05:51] Then the gig is up. They're not Yeah. Like Yeah. Then, then it's on you. Then 

[03:05:56] Mike: it's on you. Yeah. I feel like it is on me. Yeah. You know, then I on you challenge of things that I told them to do. Yeah. Like, let's do this. Yeah. No, we don't wanna do this. This is what you can do. Nothing. 

[03:06:07] Eldar: Yeah. Nothing is working.

[03:06:08] Yeah. Then, then yeah. Then like, yeah. Then you shouldn't have a guilty feeling. Feeling at all 

[03:06:13] Mike: guilty. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm not, I don't feel, I don't, I'm not sure if I feel guilty. 

[03:06:18] Eldar: Yeah. So then you should disconnect. You should disconnect and, and live your life. This should not be a stressor. This should not be a loose end.

[03:06:25] Mm-hmm. This should be a close chapter in your mind. 

[03:06:28] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:06:30] Eldar: That's how you should look at it then. 

[03:06:31] Mike: Yeah. You know, 

[03:06:34] Eldar: but if you have some kind of thing where it's like, yo, but I didn't try this. I didn't do that. Well, definitely if you feel like you, you, you wronged them mm-hmm. Right. When they like came to you or whatever, whatever, and you weren't right to them, then I'd say, yeah, no, you definitely should see things through.

[03:06:47] You definitely should go into the trenches again if you didn't, you know, and, and try things out. 

[03:06:53] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:06:54] Eldar: To make that finally period in that sentence. 

[03:06:57] Mike: I mean, yeah. If I go into the trenches, then there's nothing else left. They, you're not gonna be able to say anything. Well, that's what I'm saying. But that's my point is like, yeah.

[03:07:03] But the thing is, they will still say something 

[03:07:05] Toliy: like, if you don't make an announcement and you go into the trenches Yeah. Everyone's gonna be like, what the fuck is going on here? Yeah. Yeah. Like, you have to be, you have to have your best behavior. Yeah. Right. Because like Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, you, you have to lose that thing.

[03:07:22] Like, you have to, you have to be able, you have to like, um, like,

[03:07:31] like you, you have to drop, you have to drop that thing where there's like, where, where it's on you. And I think the only way for you to, to drop that thing's on you, like, like you have to have that feeling. If you have that feeling. Feeling now, what do you mean that it's on 

[03:07:44] Eldar: you? The feeling, the, the like, yeah.

[03:07:46] He's talking about the feeling where you finally, internally know that you've tried everything, you've done everything. Like, and that you've free yourself. Like 

[03:07:53] Toliy: if Harris says tomorrow, Hey guys, like, I'm done. 

[03:07:55] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[03:07:56] Toliy: Like, it'll be like, I'll be like, okay, but I'm not gonna have a feeling that I'm like, we weren't willing to help.

[03:08:01] Yeah, exactly. Are you kidding me? I would feel that's how I always remove, remove these types of individuals. Yeah. I would probably him as like a pussy. Like he, he, yeah. He got everything up. Everything. And you're gonna be the one that gives up. Yeah. You know, like Exactly. A, after getting everything and so much, so much patience.

[03:08:13] Like, like you're the pussy. Mm-hmm. Not us. 

[03:08:16] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Right. 

[03:08:18] Toliy: Even though, like in like, we have every right to give up in any kind of scenario, like, no, no, no one would argue that. 

[03:08:24] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:08:25] Toliy: You know? Yeah. So if you were the one to do it, then like, yeah, I would view like, I, I, but I wouldn't have a guilty feeling of like, hey, like, like, like, you know, like that or like, elder didn't help him, or I definitely don't, don't, you didn't help him.

[03:08:36] I don't feel 

[03:08:37] Mike: guilty. Like I didn't like that. Didn't give 'em enough attempts, you know, to try to help them and to, to get them to be successful. The only thing I haven't tried is what you said is to go back and, and do sales with them, but just to prove them wrong again. 

[03:08:51] Eldar: Right? 

[03:08:52] Mike: Yeah. What is, and then, and then to still break the ties with them and now still be forever the enemy.

[03:08:57] Just to make it more 

[03:08:57] Eldar: clear probably if it's not clear right now. Mm-hmm. Right. If it's not clear right now, then you have to make it clear, clearer. 

[03:09:06] Mike: Yeah. I, I don't, I don understand how they're definitely not clear if I walk away right now, I'm a hundred percent the enemy. It's all my fault. So you have to make it more clear.

[03:09:12] Toliy: Yeah. Like if you go in there and something's working, something's doing something right. And then those people are not able to do that and they don't wanna learn. That's it. Why the fuck you wanna make me out to be the enemy? You don't wanna learn from me. I just showed you that, that, that, that we, we don't need to change anything and that this is possible and it's gonna be very good.

[03:09:36] You are lazy, you actually don't wanna do shit, so don't look at me. You would have to have that seriousness in your voice. 

[03:09:46] Speaker 19: Right? It like, it would have to be at that point,

[03:09:52] Toliy: did I not rebuild the process? Did I show you that it works? Is it working? You guys all getting paid? Is it business better? What was the only variable 

[03:10:04] Speaker 19: we changed? 

[03:10:05] Mike: Me and you. Shut. Shut. But they're gonna say, yeah, I know you're better than me. They're gonna say that, but okay, then they're not gonna wanna put the effort to, to get improved, then No problem.

[03:10:15] Then we have to say that, that we 

[03:10:16] Eldar: have to fire them from those roles. Yes. And find 'em a different role. Yes. Because you're not good at it. Yes. Mm-hmm. What are they gonna do? You have to have a serious conversation. They're not gonna do anything. What's it? If they, 

[03:10:27] Toliy: if Gary wants Mike to do it, then he already knows that he's not good at it and doesn't wanna do it.

[03:10:31] Yes. Mm-hmm. That's true. You's very clear. Yeah. You don't want someone to do something. Yeah. 

[03:10:36] Speaker 21: Yeah. 

[03:10:36] Toliy: Like, yeah. You 

[03:10:37] Speaker 19: know? Yeah, yeah,

[03:10:51] yeah. If that's 

[03:10:52] Eldar: the actual case, then you have to open their eyes to, to what's actually going on and what, what's actually happening when it comes to their roles. Mm-hmm. You know? And that's it. Either or whichever way you spin this, it's gonna be a hard decision to make. 

[03:11:04] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:11:05] Eldar: Which you always were teetering with.

[03:11:07] Right. We gotta fire Gary, we gotta fire Emma. We gotta fire Gary. We gotta fire Emma. These are not just like random fucking acts here. I know. These are actual fucking decision making serious stuff. That you have individuals that commingled into a business, a family dynamic, a a very difficult family dynamic.

[03:11:26] Very toxic. Yeah. Into the business. And this is the results that you guys are getting and you're trying to work on yourself better your life, be a better person and everything else. And you're still stuck in it. Yeah. Sooner or later you gotta get unstuck. Like sooner or later it has to become water and oil.

[03:11:41] Toliy: Yeah. And, and, and it needs to be like very like, um, like, like black and white, like clear. If you have a family business and you guys own a restaurant, if you can't cook Yeah. And you need to get outta the kitchen, but hey, I still love you. Yeah. I still love you. Yeah. But you clearly can't cook. Yeah. If you're not willing, willing to clean, yeah.

[03:11:59] Then maybe, hey, like, it might be better for you to get a. A different job somewhere else, a job, but I still love you. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's right. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. That's right. But you tell me, Hey, like the customers are saying the, the, the, the food is bad. Right? You don't wanna clean, you don't wanna do, do, do this.

[03:12:15] Can you tell me how does it make sense for you to have a role here? 

[03:12:19] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:12:20] Toliy: What kind of contributing role can you have where you can hold your weight and you can do what you gotta do. That's right. Right? 

[03:12:27] Eldar: That's right. 

[03:12:27] Toliy: You guys can still, then the person's like, yeah, you know what, like, maybe I should work in the mall, or like, you know, this or that, but you guys can still love each other.

[03:12:36] Yeah. But, but that, those, those people, like, people have to be left with not being able to answer questions. 

[03:12:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[03:12:41] Toliy: You know? Mm-hmm. Like, like, like, um, I already know I'm wrong. If I was asking me questions, I'm saying, I don't know. Then like, I'm wrong too. Mm-hmm. You know, like that. That's clear. If or if like, what, what, when Harris shit the back completely, what does he always say?

[03:12:57] I don't know. 

[03:12:58] Speaker 21: Yeah. I don't know.

[03:13:02] Toliy: Well, since they're, they'll they don't know. You don't, you know, like people Yeah. People have to be put in a position where they, they can't answer questions. They can't answer basic questions. Yeah. There's no argument anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know? But to do that, yeah. Like, there needs to be like a, like a firm strong leader that's that like, like, like a firm strong leader that stands behind that and that does like mm-hmm.

[03:13:26] The right things, you know? I 

[03:13:27] Mike: get it. But the thing is, I agree what you're saying, but because of all the resentment for them to change their minds, what, what, what is there to change their mind and to actually see me as a leader and to follow me because I'm telling them what 

[03:13:42] Toliy: to 

[03:13:43] Mike: do. No. Every, every time they challenge me, I'm like, Hey guys, like, what are you talking about?

[03:13:46] No, no. But 

[03:13:46] Toliy: when you lead by example, they're, they're, yeah. Like no one, no one. Like, 

[03:13:50] Mike: so 

[03:13:50] Toliy: what 

[03:13:50] Mike: example am I not giving them? 

[03:13:52] Toliy: Well, like, first off, you don't work with them together, like in the same office. Yeah. Yeah. Like they, yeah. They all, yeah. Like mm-hmm. You are, you're doing something else diff different full time.

[03:14:02] Mm-hmm. You know, so you are not working with them, you're not solving whatever problems, like you're not hearing the calls. You guys don't have the calls, let's say like recorded. 

[03:14:09] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:14:09] Toliy: Right? Like, um, 

[03:14:12] Mike: yeah, we do have the calls recorded. 

[03:14:14] Toliy: Okay. Like, no, no, no one's obviously analyzing those calls. No. Like if, if, if there's something bad going on there.

[03:14:19] Mm-hmm. And, and like Yeah. Like if, like, it sounds like they want you to do like the job that they have. Yes. So if that's the case, then yeah, I think you need to do it. Get the business to a better place. Have, while that's happening, they need to have their own clearly defined jobs if they want to be, continue being a part of this.

[03:14:39] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:14:40] Toliy: Right. Um, right. And then like everybody needs to do their roles and then when you get the business in a better place and you need to replace yourself with an, an, an actual sales guy who's gonna do it. Yeah. And that's it. Mm-hmm. 

[03:14:56] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:14:57] Toliy: You hire an accountant for finances. 

[03:14:59] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:15:00] Toliy: Or maybe you, um, teach whatever you need to teach to Gary and that's it.

[03:15:05] Mm-hmm. 

[03:15:08] Speaker 19: Yeah.

[03:15:12] Toliy: But like, when, when you're telling someone to do, do something, but you're not doing it. Mm-hmm. 

[03:15:16] Mike: Um, 

[03:15:19] Toliy: it, it's a different dynamic than when you're leading it by example. They have nothing to say because none of it, it, it's not words versus words then versus Yeah. But what do you mean versus I'm not leading 

[03:15:27] Mike: by example?

[03:15:28] Like what example am I not leading? Well, like 

[03:15:30] Toliy: the, like you're telling 'em to do things, they're not doing those things, for example. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I can't 

[03:15:35] Mike: lead 

[03:15:35] Toliy: them in sales. I'm not like doing sales. Well, yeah. But it sounds like they want, don't know how to do their roles properly. Mm-hmm. They don't want to do their roles properly.

[03:15:43] Yeah. And they want you to do the role 'cause you're better at the role. 

[03:15:47] Mike: Mm-hmm. Right. 

[03:15:48] Toliy: So you leading by example is that like all this time, like if you're telling 'em things to do and they're not doing it, and then you're. You're the application of the things that you teach. Mm-hmm. And you're doing it and you're doing it well.

[03:15:59] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:15:59] Toliy: Then it's not a battle of words versus words, it's a battle of words versus actions. 

[03:16:04] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:16:04] Toliy: And the actions that you're showing. 

[03:16:06] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:16:07] Toliy: Um, will trump any kind of words that they have to say, nobody's gonna say shit, 

[03:16:12] Mike: I don't know if I have it in me, you know? So I've been in this health so long, I'm tired.

[03:16:17] Uhhuh, I'm already tired. I've been in this health for a, for a while. 

[03:16:21] Speaker 21: Yeah. But what, what would you not have the energy for? 

[03:16:25] Mike: To go into it and do sales with them? Why not? 

[03:16:28] Speaker 21: I mean, with them, you're, you're gonna be doing it. 

[03:16:30] Mike: Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. I dunno if I have it in me. I dunno if I want to do it. Oh, well that's, I dunno.

[03:16:36] If I have the energy for it, I'm already exhausted. I'm finished. But you physically Yeah. Physically, you 

[03:16:40] Toliy: physically come to work every day and do work. Like, you physically have the energy for it. Mm-hmm. Whether you want to do it. Those are obviously, like, the reason I don't want 

[03:16:47] Mike: to, might not want to is because I'm not convinced that the outcome that you think is gonna happen, well make, make, make an argument.

[03:16:55] Well, the outcome is gonna be, uh, I'm still gonna be the bad guy. They're gonna say, why don't you do this earlier? No, 

[03:17:03] Eldar: no, no, no, no. But it's not for 

[03:17:03] Mike: them. It's for you. It's for me. Yeah. Yeah. But only if I have a conscious about it. Right. Like, I don't feel guilty about it. Yeah. 

[03:17:10] Eldar: If you don't feel guilty about it, get the fuck out.

[03:17:11] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Leave. But this is 

[03:17:13] Eldar: not even a conversation. Yeah, yeah. What, what's, yeah. What we're trying to say is that, look, if you depicted a hell that you're in mm-hmm. And you, you've did everything that you've tried 

[03:17:21] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[03:17:22] Eldar: In your power to do. Right? 

[03:17:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[03:17:24] Eldar: And if the individuals that are still saying, now I'm gonna be here.

[03:17:27] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:17:28] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Leave me alone. Mm-hmm. And you, uh, you grant them their wishes. Mm-hmm. But why do you have to be in it? 

[03:17:38] Mike: I deserve it, I guess. Well then, okay, so then it's show more, you know? But I don't want it like, uh, I, I mean, I So then 

[03:17:46] Eldar: you don't want it, so then so which one is it? No, I mean, so you, yourself, and then limbo of not knowing?

[03:17:50] No. For 

[03:17:50] Mike: a lo I mean, obviously like as the position I'm in, I deserved it. Right? Well, I didn't get here by accident. No, no, no, 

[03:17:55] Eldar: no. Yeah. But you've been working, progressing towards not to be in it, right? Mm-hmm. And not to be deserving of it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So you can't keep saying that you deserving of it.

[03:18:04] Yeah. You've deserved the position that, the position that you, you were in for a while, but now do you deserve it after doing all the work, is the question. 

[03:18:12] Mike: Yeah. But how do, how can, how do I answer that question, or what question? I've asked myself to find out the answer. Uh, do you want to keep doing this or No?

[03:18:22] Doing what? Like being hell. Yeah. And not hell no. No. So, so that's it. So go leave. But, but have I done enough to be deserving to be out of it? Is that a question I need to ask? 

[03:18:34] Eldar: Have you done everything points to the fact that you did? 

[03:18:36] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:18:37] Eldar: Right? Yeah. Everything points to the fact that if you go back into what you said, it's not gonna work, it's gonna be the same shit.

[03:18:43] Yeah. I can fix the 

[03:18:44] Mike: business, but, but they're gonna still say like, yeah. Oh, why 

[03:18:47] Eldar: don't you do this earlier? 

[03:18:48] Mike: Or, so the whole 

[03:18:48] Eldar: point of this, this experiment or this thing mm-hmm. Is to make sure that you don't, you can leave with a clear conscience mm-hmm. That you did the right thing mm-hmm. By them and by yourself.

[03:18:56] Yeah. I don't, so you can, I don't, can free yourself and have a good life. 

[03:18:59] Toliy: Yeah. I, I also don't think that this is dependent on them. Yeah. Th this is dependent on you. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, it's either like you have a clear conscience right now and you can, and you can leave, or you don't have a clear conscience and you, and you Yeah.

[03:19:14] And then you have to do other. Well, I 

[03:19:15] Mike: definitely, right now I don't feel like I have a guilty conscience, but it's also my family. Right. And I understand the consequences of it.

[03:19:28] Okay. It's not just like a, but 

[03:19:30] Toliy: what, what's the consequences of it? 

[03:19:32] Mike: They might not want to like, uh, speak to me again. They might ban me. I don't know. Okay. 

[03:19:39] Eldar: Would you not be okay to stand on that principle? 

[03:19:42] Mike: Um, wouldn't I not be okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good question. I mean 

[03:19:48] Eldar: right. You have to be able to answer that.

[03:19:50] My dad, when he called me and said, Hey, 

[03:19:52] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[03:19:52] Eldar: Uh, you're not gonna pay me all the work that I did. 

[03:19:56] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:19:56] Eldar: I said, dad, all the work that you did was incorrect. 

[03:19:59] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:20:00] Eldar: The job's not finished and we have a huge problem. 

[03:20:02] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:20:03] Eldar: You are expecting for me to pay you saying that I'm a bad son. Mm-hmm. He hung up the phone on me.

[03:20:08] Mm-hmm. That was the last time I was ready to speak to my dad. Yeah. I remember, yeah. You understand this. I know. I was done. I was ready to stand on the principle. Mm-hmm. That if my dad can't see things for what they are and how, actually the truth is, I'm okay with that. I told this to my mom today. I reminded her of that.

[03:20:26] Mm-hmm. He obviously sat with it and call me back. I don't wanna fight, I'm sorry. 

[03:20:32] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[03:20:33] Eldar: We'll do whatever it takes to get it done. 

[03:20:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[03:20:35] Eldar: I don't need your money. That is correct. 

[03:20:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[03:20:41] Eldar: I don't see how you can stand on principle and the truth, and obviously for some people it'll take some time to, to, to come around.

[03:20:49] Mm-hmm. But for them to come around and see things for what they are, it's not like you shutting down to not be their son anymore. Mm-hmm. Or not be there for support or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. But just the dealings of the business. Yeah. You're choosing not to partake anymore, but that doesn't mean you can't be a son.

[03:21:05] You can't be a ne a uncle or mm-hmm. Anything else? A brother. Yeah. And stuff like that. I don't, I think that you need to start thinking about it very seriously about defining those roles.