179. Why you can't stop comparing yourself to others and why you shouldn't stop.

Why do we compare ourselves to others?

In this thought-provoking episode of the podcast, hosts Eldar, Toliy, and Mike tackle the age-old question of why humans compare themselves to others, often leading to self-doubt, low self-esteem, and emotional suffering. Drawing from personal anecdotes like rock climbing struggles and social media facades, they explore how unfair comparisons stem from illusions, unexamined desires, and flawed perceptions of reality. The discussion evolves into deeper insights on turning comparison into a tool for growth, the role of accountability and ownership in personal development, and avoiding pity parties through humility and self-awareness. Packed with raw honesty, analogies, and philosophical twists, the episode challenges listeners to question their attachments and embrace fair self-assessment for true empowerment.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction: The Illusion of Comparison
• 0:46 Why Do We Compare?
• 5:44 The Role of Desire in Comparison
• 14:26 The Involuntary Nature of Comparison
• 35:47 The Need for External Validation
• 42:15 The Power of Human Interaction
• 1:05:32 Defining Personal Identity and Goals
• 1:19:41 The Dangers of False Perceptions
• 1:32:47 Ownership and Self-Development
• 1:46:31 Taking Ownership and Ego
• 1:55:40 The Influence of Environment
• 2:08:35 Final Thoughts on Comparison and Growth

Transcript

[00:00:00] Eldar: On this week's episode, you operating out of an illusion of comparison. The illusion is like, oh, they're better than me. Yeah. They have shit figured out. But it's also not a fair comparison yet again. Yeah. Because you have not done even the research to 

[00:00:12] Toliy: compare, we're constantly doing a many different of these comparing formulas internally.

[00:00:17] I think overall it's a good thing because it'll get you where you actually want to go versus where you think you are wanting to go right now. 

[00:00:25] Eldar: Yeah. When I go on social media and I see that everybody got their life figured out except for me, you know, and I, I always challenge 'em like, how do you know this?

[00:00:32] You know what I mean? We always just put, you know, lipstick on the pig. This is all, you know, smoking mirrors.

[00:00:43] All right guys. Tonight's question is why do we compare? Lots of times we compare lots of different shit, but most of the time it's we comparing our achievements, accomplishments, our traits to others. 

[00:01:01] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:02] Eldar: Right. And what do they say? Comparison is the thief, the joy of, it's a thief of joy. Thief of joy.

[00:01:07] Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you particularly wanted to talk about this topic. Um, maybe you can give us some insight of why as to why and then we can definitely unpack it all. 

[00:01:17] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, I think it's an interesting topic for me. Um, I was thinking about it because a lot times. Uh, compare myself or compare others to other people or to myself, and I feel like it's a really bad thing.

[00:01:34] Mm-hmm. You know, and I wanted to find out why, how detrimental it actually is. Mm-hmm. You know? So that's where the idea came from. Okay. When you 

[00:01:46] Eldar: compare yourself to others, what does it feel like and, uh, why do you think you do it? 

[00:01:51] Mike: Well, sometimes it's like, uh, depends on the thing. Uhhuh, like, uh, sometimes it's, it's like a failure thing.

[00:01:57] It's not always like mm-hmm. Um, like a positive comparison. Sometimes it's negative, like, oh, he can do that. I can't, you know, I suck. Or like, I mean, not like that, but like, you know. Yeah. 

[00:02:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:02:09] Mike: How he could do that. I can't, like, uh, maybe rock climbing is bringing that out a lot. Mm-hmm. Because you see a lot of different people climbing.

[00:02:16] Mm-hmm. Then you kind of like compare yourself, you know? 

[00:02:19] Toliy: Yeah. And, and, and you said when you were talking that how much of a detriment is it? So and so it, it's, it, it's for sure a detriment 

[00:02:29] Mike: you're saying? Well, it's my theory that it's a detriment. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 

[00:02:35] Eldar: So yeah, explain to us why, why is it detrimental to you then?

[00:02:39] Mike: Because I think a lot of times, um, way we are not comparing the apples to apples. 

[00:02:47] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:47] Mike: We don't have all the facts. We don't have all the details. Right. 

[00:02:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:02:51] Mike: And also, most of the times, I think comparison, it's irrelevant. Uh, the stuff that we compare ourselves to, it might not be like relevant because of those factors, 

[00:03:03] Eldar: but then why do we do it?

[00:03:04] If, if now you're saying, saying, hey, like it's not apples to apples, then why do you do it? 

[00:03:08] Toliy: Then? It doesn't sound like the actual comparing, like the act of comparing is the actual problem though, right? 

[00:03:15] Eldar: Uh, yeah, probably not. I mean, you think that you're probably comparing, but you're not doing a ver a fair assessment as to what's actually going on.

[00:03:22] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Then it's not like the comparison though, what's No, but you're still doing comparing. 

[00:03:26] Eldar: You're still comparing. 

[00:03:27] Toliy: Yeah. You, you're still comparing. But I'm saying in that example, the, the actual act of comparing is not like an actual like, inherent issue, right? Like I feel like it's the inability to, um, compare properly.

[00:03:39] Not, not, not even to compare properly, to like bring the right things to the table to, to begin with, you know? Alright, so explain that. 

[00:03:49] Eldar: Like, uh, because the way I see it is, right, like, uh, if Mike is saying I, he look, a lot of times we don't compare apples to apples, for example, rock climbing, right? If you see a guy who has been doing it for six years and you only came here doing it for two months and he's doing much higher levels than you are 

[00:04:04] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:04:04] And you're 

[00:04:04] Eldar: comparing yourself and you're comparing yourself apples to oranges here, right? You sure He's a human being just like you. He has a body just like you, but his fingers are fucking jacked. His forearms are jacked. Yeah. You, you know, you're not doing a fair assessment that like, this guy's been doing it for five years.

[00:04:19] He's doing x, y, and Z training and you over here just been doing it for two months and you have the audacity to compare yourself to the person. 

[00:04:26] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. So that in, in that example, like the comparing is not necessarily like the bad thing. It's the, um, like, like, like the lack, uh, it's like oftentimes when, when people compare things, they're comparing a specific thing with two overall very general like things, you know, like they're, they're like, the comparisons, like a very vague like, type of way that I think people like, interact with it, right?

[00:04:52] Like, oh, like, um, like you just depicted something very specific. And then so you have a person who's comparing like, oh, like, uh, where are they compared to, like them, for example, right? Yeah. But like, that kind of question is such like a, um, like, it's not like a, uh, like a serious question almost, right?

[00:05:11] Because it's like you, like you, you don't have enough information in front of you to Yeah. But nonetheless, we do it, 

[00:05:17] Eldar: right? Yeah, sure. I agree with you that, you know, if you're gonna start talking about actual comparison, you should talk about one that is fair, 

[00:05:25] Mike: but it's not meant to be, uh, fair. The person who's in that position, who's doing that, the comparison behavior is not in a position that he is gonna be like, yeah, you know what, let me find out all the details about this guy, what his skills are, how long he's been climbing, and then do a comparison.

[00:05:38] Usually it's coming from like a either ego thing or a low self esteem thing. Yeah. Weak, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, 

[00:05:44] Toliy: I, yeah. And yeah, so like in, in that, I feel like the, the, um, act of comparing, I, I think it serves a very good purpose because, um, like. Usually the person that it's comparing, um, they have some like attachments or like desires, you know, and then, um, maybe like mix with, mix, mix in that they have some like, um, timelines too, right?

[00:06:10] Mm-hmm. And, um, when they compare, they're operating from that like desire or from that like, um, attachment. Hmm. You know, so like they already, they already want something or they want to do something. And like, now, to me, like a fair punishment is for that person is to compare, is to be like what you just said, the, the guy who doesn't know what's going on and to compare mm-hmm.

[00:06:35] You know, like that, that, that, that's like the fair thing that, that like is happening now because you already made some kind of goal or like some kind of like thing, right? Like people compare the time, like where they are financially compared to someone else. Yeah. They have, they develop 

[00:06:50] Eldar: a bad attitude or, you know what I mean?

[00:06:51] A job or 

[00:06:51] Toliy: like, whatever it is, right? Yeah. So those comparisons only happen because they want something, right. If you're, if you don't want something 

[00:07:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:00] Toliy: Then you're never gonna like really compare anything, right? Like if you're evaluating a product or software, whatever it is, right? Like, you want something, therefore you have comparisons.

[00:07:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:12] Toliy: You know, so it's 

[00:07:13] Eldar: almost like they, uh. Um, the act of comparing yourself to something, especially if it feels bad right. Is actually a, a proper punishment is what you're saying. 

[00:07:22] Toliy: Well, it's, it, it just something that is gonna come up naturally because like, you are the one that has a desire for something.

[00:07:30] Mm. You know? 

[00:07:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:31] Toliy: Um, that's a good point. So like over overall it's probably good because it, it, it helps like, um, make the process of whatever attachment or desire you have faster to like, figure out what's going on or where you're at, or like, are you really about that attachment or mm-hmm. Like, 

[00:07:52] Eldar: yeah, I agree.

[00:07:53] You know, I agree. Because if you start to dig, you quickly find out that you either did a really bad job at comparison 

[00:08:00] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:08:01] Eldar: Right. Or you either put up a shut up. 

[00:08:04] Toliy: Yeah. Like in, in climbing terms, like if you guys just started and you guys are wanting to be like, you know, do all v sevens, for example, and you see people doing v sevens, right.

[00:08:14] For, for, for example, like, you're probably gonna be like starting to compare or think about or like see where you're at without proper research of like, um, what it takes, yeah. Of what it takes because like the, uh, the desire and what you wanted to begin with was also not enough research and not proper to, to, to begin with flawed.

[00:08:34] Yeah. So there's gonna be like a flawed desire or attachment that, that is followed by flawed comparison. You know, it's a very natural, I feel like, um, series of steps 

[00:08:47] Speaker 6: nonetheless. We do it all the time.

[00:08:54] Yeah. 

[00:08:56] Eldar: So would you then label a comparison, or especially when we compare ourselves to others as an indicator that we got something wrong from 

[00:09:05] Speaker 6: the jump? Um,

[00:09:10] I'm not sure if it, if we got something wrong, but 

[00:09:12] Toliy: I feel like, um, it's an indication that, that like you're kind of playing out what, what you want and maybe the comparison is seeing if it's right for you or not, you know, or like what, like, it, it, it can like, um, help you discover whether like this is something that you want to begin with or not.

[00:09:34] You know, because like in general, lots of times pe people have desires for things and I would say 99.9 0.9 0.9% of the scenarios, they don't have the full picture as to like what they want entails and what it takes to get there. Right. Can we agree upon that? Yes, we can. Right. So because that, that happens, um, it, it'll create a sense of of, of being lost for that person.

[00:10:02] Mm-hmm. Like you, you'll just have this innate feeling of being lost and because you're lost, you're trying to find your way. 

[00:10:09] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:10] Toliy: And a very. Um, easy and common way that people try to find their way is to, you know, do some research, see what others are doing, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and then they try to, I don't know, like find like-minded people or find people that have, you know, done that or like been there, right?

[00:10:29] Mm-hmm. And then, um, they try to, to u to utilize that for themselves 

[00:10:36] Speaker 6: to help find their own way.

[00:10:41] So, Mike, does that help you? 

[00:10:45] Mike: Yeah, I mean, I get what you guys are saying. Do you 

[00:10:47] Eldar: agree with the whole comparison sh stick? 

[00:10:50] Mike: Uh, yeah. I, I can agree to it. Um, but I think there's still like a, maybe some more stuff in there. Mm-hmm. Not necessarily like in, in, uh, I don't have like a concrete example mm-hmm. But I find myself sometimes comparing not just like, uh, in rock climbing, but in other areas and I'm like, I don't like it.

[00:11:08] Mm-hmm. You know, and I trying to find out where it's from because I know it's like not a stance of like a feeling empowered. Mm-hmm. A lot of times it's not logical. 

[00:11:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:20] Mike: So, but, but, um mm-hmm. 

[00:11:25] Toliy: What, what, what are like some like examples or like ways where like you feel like it doesn't serve you? 

[00:11:33] Mike: Um,

[00:11:38] well, if you're just constantly comparing. Right. If you compare yourself to others, but you don't actually like, uh, change it or you get frustrated about it, or like, then it's not serving me. 

[00:11:50] Eldar: Yeah. But the perception of comparing then also, uh, involves around assuming, right. That the people that you're comparing yourself too are better than you.

[00:12:02] Right. They have something figured out. Mm-hmm. They feel happier than you. They have something that you don't. Yeah. Right. So you have that impression as well. 

[00:12:10] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:11] Eldar: So therefore you're doing the comparison, right? Mm-hmm. Otherwise you wouldn't be comparing. Yeah. Right. Otherwise you wouldn't be beating yourself up over it.

[00:12:17] Of 

[00:12:17] Mike: course. 

[00:12:18] Eldar: Right? 

[00:12:18] Mike: Yeah. And I also think that part of the comparison thing, it's, it's a position of not being, uh, grateful. Mm-hmm. Right. A lot of times we compare and like, uh, maybe like a logic, logically we compare on a lot of different things, but not everybody's supposed to be good at every single thing.

[00:12:44] I don't think anybody, like everybody can mm-hmm. Be good at everything, you know? So we com we compare ourselves to others, like, uh, and a lot of different things. Mm-hmm. But then we don't give ourselves like the credit or the stuff that we are good at, that we should be like kind of grateful for and drawing energy from.

[00:13:05] Eldar: Yeah. But then again, we then you operating out of an illusion mm-hmm. Right. Of comparison. 

[00:13:09] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:10] Eldar: Where the illusion is like, oh, they're better than me. Yeah. They have shit figured out. Mm-hmm. You know, they're stronger than me and they're more financially stable than me. Yeah. They're more everything than me.

[00:13:19] Mm-hmm. You know, but it's also not a fair comparison yet again. Yeah. Because you have not done even the research to compare. Yeah. Let's just say those people that do the v sevens and rock climbing higher grades, right? Mm-hmm. They, they do it 'cause you see it, you know what I mean? Sure. But what about all the other people, for example, on social media, right?

[00:13:36] Yeah. That when you look at their profiles and stuff and they're driving these cars or they're on, on these vacations mm-hmm. You can't even verify that. 

[00:13:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:13:44] Eldar: You know, they have these happy relationships. Everyone is happy, smiling. No, yeah, of course. So like, you know, there's so many different things that are at play here that, uh, anytime you in the, in the realm of comparing 

[00:13:57] Mike: Yeah.

[00:13:57] Eldar: Uh, there's so much room for error that I'm not sure what can you extract from comparing that's beneficial at all. I agree. You know, that's why I said very bad. I have to think about this. There might be something that's beneficial. I, I'm leaning more towards what to said. I think it's a side effect of your ignorance.

[00:14:14] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:15] Eldar: Right. Therefore you're gonna operate at, in an ignorant way. Mm-hmm. And therefore I think you almost deserve it of a level of punishment that com comparing yourself to others brings to insecurities and stuff like that. Yeah, for sure. Um, I don't 

[00:14:26] Toliy: think comparison, like the act of comparing of like when someone does that, I don't think it's something that you can control.

[00:14:35] Okay. I feel like, um, it's a natural side effect of like what you chose before. It's a result. Yeah. It's a result of something. It's not something that, like if you chose to begin, if you chose wrong to begin with, you cannot help yourself. But to compare, like the comparing is a hundred percent gonna happen.

[00:14:54] It's in inevitable. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's something that like, is controllable like a, like at all, because like naturally, like if you have the wrong details, you have the wrong desire, like you have the wrong choices. You're, you, you're not gonna be able to control yourself to 

[00:15:09] Eldar: compare. Not it's, it's very interesting take because the advice of applying the advice of, Hey, stop comparing yourself.

[00:15:16] Mm-hmm. It doesn't apply here. Yeah. Yeah. It's impossible. He's saying, look, it's, it's, it's impo it's impossible you saying? 

[00:15:21] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's like a conscious, like, um, it's an involuntary yes or no result. Yeah. It's like, um, 

[00:15:30] Eldar: yeah. Yeah. It's, and I think he's right. Something tells me that he's right and it's all as a result of if you dig deeper inside what values you put, you know, are operating out of what belief systems are you operating out of.

[00:15:41] Mm-hmm. And if you really find out, you're quickly find out, you set yourself off of failure from the jump. Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:47] Mike: You 

[00:15:49] Speaker 6: know?

[00:15:52] Yeah. And therefore, comparison is an 

[00:15:57] Eldar: inevitable, 

[00:15:59] Speaker 6: um.

[00:16:04] An inevitable lesson mm-hmm. Or pain 

[00:16:07] Eldar: Yeah. That you've earned mm-hmm. From the things that you've done to yourself Yeah. Previously. 

[00:16:15] Mike: Mm-hmm. Well, yeah, for sure. Like, I mean, obviously I have a, a lot of, a lot, probably a lot of different examples, but in the ride climbing world mm-hmm. My comparison is not that people can do like a higher level than me.

[00:16:28] Mm-hmm. Or because I know there's all people that could do lower level than me. Like I understand like, hey. Mm-hmm. There's other people, everybody's own level. But my comparison may be for the guys who are at a higher level or, or at a different level even may be lower level 

[00:16:40] mm-hmm. 

[00:16:42] Is the, maybe like the, not at their skill level as, as a rock climber, but maybe like the, what is the word I'm looking for?

[00:16:52] Like,

[00:16:56] like the persistence or the persistence to go through like a challenging thing and not give up like that. Like the mental fortitude maybe. 

[00:17:02] Hmm. 

[00:17:02] You know, that's like, I'm like, damn, this guy, even though he might be a new, the way he's doing this V two. Three. He's doing it in a much more like a mentally strong way, versus I'm still struggling with that, even though I could climb better than him.

[00:17:17] Mm-hmm. Right in, in the, in the like climbing world. Yeah. But he can climb better than me in the climbing world as well. Like, it's like that mm-hmm. Funny situation, you know? 

[00:17:27] Eldar: Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter what you're comparing, the comparison is a comparison, you know? Yeah. You don't know, you know, if we compare the mental fortitude part, like you've always said, you struggled with competition.

[00:17:38] Yeah. You know, and things like that. So showing yourself mental fortitude and, and areas where, you know, competition is required, it's not your forte. Mm-hmm. You know, maybe it's the guy he came from a different sport. Yeah. Like myself, for example. Mm-hmm. Where, you know, I can tap in into that. Mm-hmm. Mental fortitude.

[00:17:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:17:55] Eldar: And persevere. 

[00:17:56] Mike: Well, yeah. The, but the reason I'm comparing it is because I'd like to get there, you know, and I, and I'm like probably not happy with, uh, and yeah. 

[00:18:04] Eldar: But the process of comparing, you also hurting yourself, right? Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. Well, that's why you don't say like, okay, I'm gonna compare myself to this, and all of a sudden you get this inspiration you like, that doesn't work like that.

[00:18:15] A lot of times it's like, ah, fuck, I suck. 

[00:18:17] Mike: Maybe, maybe, um, maybe now that I've been trying to like, you know, focus more and mm-hmm. You know, be more concentrated and try to do like a mm-hmm. Bigger, better effort. I don't get like the, um. The discouragement. Yeah. Yeah. Because like, I also like, uh, understanding myself, like the last time two times ago we went and I was like, out, out of it.

[00:18:40] I couldn't do certain climbs that I did before. I was like, well, I already kind of, I already came knowing I'm tired. I didn't really want to go. 

[00:18:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:46] Mike: I just came to hanging like, you know, walk around a little bit. 

[00:18:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:49] Mike: I wasn't hard on myself. Like, I was like, yo, I know what I came here with. I didn't have a lot to give.

[00:18:53] So I just, you know, I'm fucking around like, don't be, uh, bad on yourself. But, you know, the times when I come, like when I went a few days ago by myself, I felt very good. I felt rested. I felt immensely strong. And I went and I, you know, did those, the ones that I was struggling with, you know, I sat there like I told you, that black one.

[00:19:10] Mm-hmm. You know, I sat there and I watched guys do it. I stayed there for a very long time. Mm-hmm. You know, watching people and trying to see, okay, what's happening here? Why am I not getting it? You know, what can I do? What can I learn? You know? And for a while I sat and I saw somebody do it and I, 'cause I was paying attention and I was like, okay, this is the move.

[00:19:27] And then right away I went, I did exactly what was needed. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Because I was paying attention, because I'm making the effort Yeah. To pay attention and to do it like a proper way. Mm-hmm. Okay. So I think, yeah, before in this rock climbing thing, for sure. Mm-hmm. Like before, I definitely had a much worse attitude about it.

[00:19:46] But now because it's more, we had, you know, a couple podcasts about it. Mm-hmm. I'm trying to. Do a better job for, for myself and like, you know, with myself. And when I'm going into those challenging times, be more aware. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm trying to, yeah. Okay. But in other areas, um, probably not.

[00:20:06] Mm-hmm. But I, but I guess it's, I think it's probably comparison. It's coming from low self-esteem. Mm-hmm. You know, that's, that was my thought, 

[00:20:16] Speaker 6: you 

[00:20:17] Eldar: know? 

[00:20:18] Mike: Yeah. How

[00:20:22] like, uh, not believing in myself, 

[00:20:24] Eldar: therefore you compare. 

[00:20:25] Mike: Yeah. Uh, I don't think that works. And like I put myself down, like I compare, oh, he's better, he's skinny or stronger, I don't know, whatever. Like yeah, he's smarter, whatever, taller. I don't know, like, whatever, you know. 

[00:20:36] Toliy: But I think that like, the act of being upset from comparing, I think only happens when you think you're better 

[00:20:44] Speaker 6: than like you are,

[00:20:50] well, maybe not that, 

[00:20:51] Eldar: but more so the act of not accepting your current position for what it is. 

[00:20:55] Toliy: No, but I'm saying that like, for example, like, like if I think I'm a good shooter mm-hmm. Right? Like, um, basketball shooter. Yeah. Right. Not like a school shooter. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah. Like if I'm good at shooting the basketball, right?

[00:21:08] Yeah. Like, even at my best, I'm not gonna compare myself to like Steph Curry, for example. Mm-hmm. Like, that's not even gonna be a thought in my mind. 

[00:21:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:21:16] Toliy: Like, this person's like a one, they're a professional. To, like, this is what they do. But for shits and 

[00:21:22] Eldar: giggles, you can, you know, talk shit. 

[00:21:24] Toliy: No, no. Like, and if you can do 

[00:21:25] Eldar: it in a good way No, 

[00:21:26] Toliy: you can talk.

[00:21:27] No, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about like, I'm not gonna actually be like, Hey, like he can hit 70 out of 75 threes, you know, sitting there standing. Yeah. Like, like, like just, you know, practicing and I can't do that. Like, there's no world where like, someone like myself or should be holding yourself to that standard.

[00:21:45] Yeah. Yeah. And nor will will you, because there's no way that you actually feel that, like, like the disparity is too big. You can't be upset from that comparison. Right. Yeah. Or like, you know, like, like it, like it just doesn't make sense. But that's usually not what happens. Usually. It's like, like, or it's like, if, if you lose, like if you, if or if you're like, you know, this happened plenty of times where we're playing people 

[00:22:06] Mike: Yeah.

[00:22:07] Toliy: We feel like we're better than them. Right? Yeah. And you lose 

[00:22:09] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:22:10] Toliy: Like, and then you start getting upset usually, like, there's some kind of comparisons going on, right. Like, hey, like we're, we're like, come on, like, we're better, you know? Mm-hmm. And we're losing to these guys. 

[00:22:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:19] Toliy: Right. But like, if they just, you know, if they took, if, if they took five NBA all stars and we lost them, we're not gonna, we're we're not gonna be being upset.

[00:22:26] Correct. 

[00:22:27] Eldar: No. Yeah. 

[00:22:28] Toliy: You know, so it's usually like you thinking that you're better mm-hmm. Than what you are, right. Than like, or like the, like the, um, not necessarily better than like what, what you are, but, but, but better than your current level of performance. You, you feel like you have more? Yeah. So you're not accepting of your Yeah.

[00:22:42] Okay. Yeah. Like you internally feel that you have more to offer than what you're currently giving. Currently giving. Yeah. And then you look at someone else that can maybe like, um, achieve more of their potential. Mm-hmm. Right? And then you start to compare us to like, how is this person able like to do that when I can't for, for example, right?

[00:22:59] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. But that's like a BA basketball moment. A one game is, uh, I think easy, easy one to jump over unless you're really into it, right? Like if you're passionately playing. 

[00:23:09] Toliy: No, but I'm saying in that moment, like in that you get frustrated, you're like, yo, how, how did this happen? You know? Well, you can't, or you 

[00:23:14] Eldar: can see it for what it is too.

[00:23:15] You have those options, obviously, you know that. 

[00:23:17] Toliy: Yeah. But I'm saying in like any scenario like that, that to me is like why that comparison happens. Um, yeah. To begin with. 

[00:23:25] Eldar: Yeah. You can, I mean, in the case of where we're clearly better as a team or as basketball players against those kids, you can introduce statistical probability of us playing a hundred games and we'll know who's gonna come out on top.

[00:23:39] Toliy: Yeah. Right? My my my point is that the person who's, who's upset with the comparison or, or the comparing is not serving them at that moment. They're comparing something that they feel like they should be doing or that like they can't believe that this person can do this, for example. Yeah. But you're not gonna be getting upset if you hear like, oh, like let's just say the Michael Jordan of climbing is gonna be at the gym, right?

[00:24:01] Yeah. And he's just doing everything like this. You're not gonna be like. Damn. Like, I should be doing this. Like, there's no way that you could feel pain Yeah. From watching how good he is, right? Yeah. Like that. 

[00:24:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:10] Toliy: But some person who you feel is like, um, whatever enough. You can definitely feel pain from that.

[00:24:16] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Which is again, it's the wrong perception. 

[00:24:22] Toliy: Well, yeah. Yeah. It's like May, may, may, maybe like in your case, Mike, like and Michael 

[00:24:26] Eldar: Yeah. And sorry, in the Michael Jordan climbing, right. The person who's as good as Michael Jordan climbing, you already gave, gave them the, those accolades. Right. You already know like, this guy is an Olympic champion.

[00:24:38] He did all this and you know it. Yeah. So you put him in the category. 

[00:24:42] Toliy: This is not in your league. Yes. Correct. 

[00:24:43] Eldar: But what if, what if the Michael Jordan of climbing did come in in raggedy pants? Nobody said hi to him. Nobody knows him. 

[00:24:51] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:24:51] Eldar: And he's climbing next to you, you know what I'm saying? 

[00:24:54] Toliy: Well, no, I'm, I'm, I'm just more saying that if you observe someone who's like really good at something Yeah.

[00:25:00] And they're clearly like way better than you mm-hmm. Than you can't be upset of the like, like from their skills compared to like yours. 

[00:25:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:07] Toliy: Because like you, or you automatically remove yourself from that picture unless you're very arrogant and ignorant. Yes. And that usually only happens when it's someone that is closer to you, to you and you feel like you should be doing better than what you are.

[00:25:21] Eldar: Sure. Yeah. Right. But nonetheless, again, it still comes from the same place. Ignorance. 

[00:25:27] Toliy: Yes. I'm, I'm just saying that it's more likely to be summoned when the, when it's closer together, closer gap than when it, when the gap is huge. I agree with you. That's why you can't be upset if No, but five NBL stars beat you.

[00:25:37] Eldar: Yeah. I agree with you. I agree with you. But I think that you still, in all those moments, you still should be looking as closely as possible to the truth of the matter. 

[00:25:47] Toliy: Yeah. But you can't do that because you're comparing and that's not a conscious like effort. Like Yeah. That, that's already like a predetermined 

[00:25:54] Mike: thing.

[00:25:55] Mm-hmm. Okay. You know? All right, Mike, you said something, but, um, and the, but I, I didn't hear that, but I, but it made sense, like, uh, mm-hmm. I forgot what you were said, and then totally started speaking about this, but it, it something like, uh, started to make sense, like I was thinking about it. Yeah. Remind me of it then.

[00:26:15] I don't remember, but it was, yeah, it was, I think it's like, um, the negative belief by yourself, like the negative, you, you didn't say this, but like the comparison, I think it's the negative kind of stuff about yourself, you, you believe. Mm-hmm. You know, and then you compare yourself to others. Like, this guy has this figured out.

[00:26:33] That figured out, right? Mm-hmm. I don't know. That's, that's, yeah. To 

[00:26:40] Eldar: me, everything is pointing to the fact that, uh, your perception of reality is incorrect. 

[00:26:45] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:46] Eldar: Right. The reality of things. Mm-hmm. Right? And therefore, because you've made certain type of conclusions about the reality and about the world around you, right?

[00:26:56] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:56] Eldar: You somehow give yourself the pass, which obviously the arrogance does that, um, the right to compare. You're not qualified to compare at all. 

[00:27:06] Toliy: Yeah. But see, what, what you're saying is that the initial thoughts are all that, um, like you give yourself more points than you deserve. Correct. Yeah. So it's, it like, it, it starts there.

[00:27:18] It starts from like a, a, uh, I'm not sure if 

[00:27:21] Eldar: it starts there. I think it starts from way back even more. 

[00:27:23] Toliy: Well, no. Well, no, sure. But I'm saying that like in the, in the act of like, um, of comparing, like, I don't think it's like, like, like I don't think it, it, like it starts at negative self-talk. I think it, um, like, like it's not like you are, you're on, you can only be upset if you feel like you should be doing better.

[00:27:42] Mm-hmm. Which to me is the perception that you're talking about. 

[00:27:47] Eldar: Okay. Right. I'm not sure I'm following your train of thought. I was following mine. Yeah. I'm trying to get somewhere. But what I'm saying is that you perceiving reality a certain type of way. You make a certain type of conclusions or you're deriving certain desires right out of the things that you're perceiving.

[00:28:08] Right. You're like, oh, I see that. This guy right here, he's happy. He has this car, he has this job. He wears this suit. The tie. Mm-hmm. I gotta get that because I'm perceiving that he's happy. Right. I'm looking at the external. He has a girl next to him, a nice car, and he's smiling. Yeah. Right. We talked about this with cousins.

[00:28:27] Cousins here. 

[00:28:27] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:28:28] Eldar: You know, or, or even Harris, right? He's like, yeah, when I go on social media and I see that everybody got their whole life figured out, everybody got their shit together except for me. You know? And I, I always challenge, I'm like, how do you know this? You know what I mean? We always just put, you know, lipstick on the pig, you know, when it comes to social media, you know, this is not how life, real life is.

[00:28:49] This is all, you know, smoking mirrors, you know? So I think that, um, because you don't have, I guess, enough curiosity, or enough humility, or enough of the Socrates, right? Who says, I know that I know nothing. Right? In order to then go out there and actually talk to the person that you're perceiving and say, Hey, like, like what are you about?

[00:29:09] Like, why are you smiling? Why do you feel the way you do? And how do you actually feel? And then when you finally dug it and found out, then you could make a proper assessment whether or not that what you're perceiving should be applied on you. And then you could make a judgment or comparison. You know what I mean?

[00:29:25] Yeah. But 

[00:29:25] Toliy: see, in e even like in those examples, it's like the only reason that person, like, 'cause for example, feels that way, is because. They feel that they should have accomplished this already or that they, well, that's an anger. That's an arrogant take, but that's an 

[00:29:39] Eldar: arrogant take. That's what I'm saying.

[00:29:41] Because somewhere right down the line, he perceived or somebody told them, right? His parents maybe. Right? Yeah. Hey, by 30 years old, you're supposed to have a girl or a wife and you're supposed to have kids and you're supposed to have a career. And then when that doesn't happen, right? And he cannot make sense of the world.

[00:29:57] Right? And nobody is making sense the world to him. What cop outs does he use? A very general statement goes, because you're lucky and I'm not. This is the conclusion we're making. Right. It's ignorance compounded, you know what I mean? And arrogance compounded because before you knew what to do, you know what I mean?

[00:30:18] You, you thought you knew what to do. You were following that path, right? You didn't get it. And then you concluded that you know something about that which you didn't get, which you were perceiving correctly, which you said, oh, you are lucky. And I'm just unlucky, which is a crazy thing. So then you have to kind of dispel, and that's why we try to do this whole time when he was here, dispel all these ignorances that are now have compounded one after another, after another, after another, to form a very negative conclusion.

[00:30:48] Earned depression. 

[00:30:50] Toliy: Yeah. But when those people explain those things, like, like for example, like cause right? Um, they'll describe particular things that they felt like they should have accomplished, you know, by now, I don't know. Mm-hmm. Maybe a place to stay. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe a wife. Yeah. Maybe like, you know, one kid or something like that.

[00:31:07] Yeah. Maybe like one car or something. Yeah. But they don't talk like, like, hey, like, yeah. Like I should have had billions of dollars already by now. Like, they're not comparing themselves to like Yeah. The richest in the world, period. Right? Yeah. They're not, no, they, they, they, they, um, 

[00:31:24] Eldar: well that's because they weren't, uh, uh, steaming that, you know what I mean?

[00:31:27] They weren't shooting for the stars. 

[00:31:28] Toliy: Well, they weren't shooting that, so, so I only feel it, it's like that because, um, what they're comparing, they feel like they should have gotten. 

[00:31:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:39] Toliy: But there's, they didn't feel like they should have been billionaires, for example. They, they feel like they, they should have had like those things.

[00:31:46] Speaker 6: Yeah. They 

[00:31:46] Eldar: probably, they probably do feel 

[00:31:49] Speaker 6: that way. 

[00:31:51] Toliy: Yeah. But I think arrogant. Yeah. Huh. Which, which is definitely an arrogant, it's a very arrogant take. Yeah, for 

[00:31:56] Eldar: sure. Yeah. It's a very arrogant way of perceiving the world and making those conclusions and then applying that to yourself, you know, and then making these inconsistent, I mean, pretty consistent comparisons.

[00:32:09] Speaker 6: People are pretty com uh, consistent when it comes to these comparisons. So what should they do in regards to. 

[00:32:21] Eldar: If people like Mike right. Sitting there and saying, Hey, like, I have this thing where I compare myself to others and I beat myself up and I have a low self-esteem from it and all this other stuff, and I feel all the detrimental effects that it has on me.

[00:32:33] What are your advice to them? 

[00:32:35] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. I don't think that they're necessarily detrimental. Um, I feel like they're earned. They're, they're, they're earned. But it puts you in a position to Okay. Start your comparison. Go ahead. Do, yeah. Right. You, you were saying you would challenge 

[00:32:48] Eldar: them 

[00:32:48] Toliy: to 

[00:32:49] Eldar: do a fair one. 

[00:32:50] Toliy: No, no.

[00:32:51] Let them do their unfair one. Mm-hmm. Because what it creates is what it creates, like suffering and dissatisfaction. Yeah. And if you do this enough, it's gonna start, you're gonna start to ask questions. Yeah. And it may help you drop those things to begin with that Correct. That like, you started drop the, 

[00:33:06] Eldar: drop the incorrect beliefs.

[00:33:08] Yes. Incorrect values. 

[00:33:10] Toliy: Yes. Correct. So it's not like a matter of like having the desire to, to not compare, it's to, it's having a desire to get to the bottom of what, what you like, wanted to do to begin with. Like what, like who you actually are. Yeah. Like what decision did, did you make to begin with? It's a matter of getting to like, the root of that.

[00:33:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:33:28] Toliy: And, and like, and dropping it. Yeah. Like, and the comparisons will naturally drop. Now you might get other comparisons, but maybe you'll get like, more realistic ones. More realistic ones or like fair ones or, or like some, like some sometimes maybe in a positive way. Like if you're trying to guide your life in a particular way.

[00:33:49] I think that you can compare how someone is going about something, for example. Yeah. In comparison to how you're going about it. And then like if you start to ask questions and investigate that, why I think that could be a healthy way of like comparing or like, like, like you're saying, okay, like here's how I handled like, you know, you know, these types of situations with family for example.

[00:34:09] Right? Yeah. And then you see someone else who is handling situations with family. Well now, like it would be, you know, negative in that moment for you to feel like you should be able to handle them in that kind of way. But I think it would be good for you to start investigating as to how and why that person 

[00:34:26] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:34:26] Toliy: Is doing that so that you could start to align, um, align with that. Yeah. 

[00:34:31] Eldar: Yeah. No, I agree with you. You know, I agree with you that 

[00:34:33] Toliy: that to me is where like, like comparing is like good because then you could see someone not suffering and someone doing something and then you could figure out, well what do, what do I need to do to Al Al also align with that and be like that?

[00:34:48] Eldar: Correct. Yeah. So Mike, I asked totally mm-hmm. About, um, what is your practical advice, right on to the people that are actually suffering from doing these comparisons mm-hmm. To themselves. Mm-hmm. You know, and he said that if you really wanna find out, you should definitely be inquisitive and find out how do you accomplish that, which is you're comparing yourself to where you want to be.

[00:35:11] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? So you can finally dispel some of the wrong. Uh, notions that you had previously about the thing that you were perceiving or you start working towards accomplishing those things? 

[00:35:24] Toliy: Yeah. Ramp up to, to me it's like ramp up the comparisons, you know? Yeah. Like compare as much as possible because the more that you compare, the more like pro probably the, like the suffering amplifies, and with the suffering, amplifying, I think like the, the, the part where you start to ask like real questions starts.

[00:35:45] And then I think when, when you start doing that, those, like tho those, those decisions you made that resulted in those comparisons to begin with will start to drop off and then your mind will change. 

[00:35:57] Eldar: You know what, that's easy to say though, but in like an environment like this, if Mike started to doing that and like start telling us about all the comparisons that you know he's doing or whatever, like in this environment, right.

[00:36:08] If he vocalized it, I can see how that can be very beneficial, right? Because we can expedite the process of suffering by asking questions and stuff like that. Yeah. And putting 'em to the test and say like, you about that life. Prove it. Prove it. Yeah. Like, you know, and we obviously have these examples already.

[00:36:24] Yeah. Uh, but to like a, the, a general, the general public who don't have a resource, right. How do you, how do you do something like this internally without, 

[00:36:35] Speaker 6: uh, a sounding board? That's a good game, bro. Yeah. Like if my cousin 

[00:36:43] Eldar: right. Didn't come and started like spilling all this stuff out right. Onto us. Right.

[00:36:48] What did you do? You just become more and more depressed. 

[00:36:51] Toliy: Yeah. The, the, the things that, like a completely like self-governing person from that kind of like, perspective 

[00:36:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:36:58] Toliy: That, that you're talking about. They might change some things very, very slowly over a very, very long time. Yeah. Because like yeah, like, you can't, like if, if you're the person holding yourself accountable and you're coming from like a, um, like, and you're in a position of like having wrong perceptions, which you obviously are, if you're suffering to begin with, how can that person be governing like themselves?

[00:37:27] Yeah. It makes no, no sense. No sense. They're just gonna continue to govern themselves in a wrong way. So like, you, you, you definitely need 

[00:37:36] Eldar: some guidance. 

[00:37:37] Toliy: Yeah. Like, you definitely need to like, involve others in doing that. If you want like any kind of change, like you, you have no, yeah. No chance. So like, like for example, like if we talk here on like, the podcast and like, I discover something, you know?

[00:37:52] Mm-hmm. Like, and then like, we all agree that like, yes. Like, like this is something that is like, you know, you're suffering with, you have an issue with, if I go on the journey of like, trying to figure that out on my, like on my own and not continue to vocalize it and not continue to like, have, have, have it be like reviewed.

[00:38:11] There's no way I'll fix it. Zero chance. If the premise is incorrect. No. Even if I'm correct, because I'm a tainted person, you know, and my tain and like tho those tainted things that I won't see are like, you're not gonna be able to hold yourself accountable for them. And like Yeah. Versus when you have someone else there, there's no no chance.

[00:38:33] Eldar: Yeah. But what if you don't have those types of people 

[00:38:37] Speaker 6: turn off the podcast, go to bed. Yeah, 

[00:38:43] Toliy: yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like an impossible feat. Like, like, it's just not realistic. 

[00:38:47] Speaker 6: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:48] Toliy: Like, you might as well be in like the ignorance, bliss, you know, land. 

[00:38:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:53] Toliy: Because like, you're, you're just gonna be like, spinning in a wheel.

[00:38:58] Speaker 6: Mike, what do you think about spinning in a wheel 

[00:39:03] Eldar: about those people? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, I totally, totally put 'em in like a fucking crazy box. Oh, they're, they're fucked. Yeah. 

[00:39:12] Toliy: Well, tell me like, what are you, what are you gonna do? 

[00:39:15] Eldar: Yeah, it's a good question. The she, no, I listen. The aspect of bouncing ideas off of one another and having.

[00:39:22] People challenge you and double check your work. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. To make sure you're doing it right. Mm-hmm. Make holding you accountable. Right. Shame your dumb ass when you need to be shamed if you're doing something ignorant. 

[00:39:33] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:34] Eldar: You know, like those are all like benefits Yeah. Of being a social creature and having friends that care, or parents or whatever they love you or whatever.

[00:39:42] But yeah. If you, in, so in solitary, you know what I mean? And you have this fucking ongoing stream flow of just negative self-talk and comparison and everything else. How, like, how do you fucking get out?

[00:39:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:39:57] Eldar: If you don't turn to education. Right. Well, that's, that's again, you have to turn to something, right? Yeah. If not, if not social aspect, you have to pick up books mm-hmm. And start reading. Yeah. Right. No, 

[00:40:06] Toliy: even if you read you, you're still not gonna get anywhere. 

[00:40:10] Eldar: Damn. 

[00:40:11] Toliy: He just wants to bury everybody. Like, for example, like if we bring it into like, politics, right?

[00:40:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:17] Toliy: Can the Republican party fix the Republican party? Or can the Democratic party fix the Democratic party? 

[00:40:26] Mike: I don't know. How's the, how's that tie into books or education? 

[00:40:29] Toliy: Like, like I'm saying in that like, whatever is wrong with those like, beliefs or like, you know, ways of thinking or like doing things.

[00:40:35] Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I understand that. Like you, they, they're, they're already all sick, like they're already all under a particular thing. 

[00:40:42] Mike: Okay. 

[00:40:42] Toliy: Yeah. How could they go and fix themselves? Yeah. 

[00:40:45] Mike: Well, well as a, as a massive millions of people, it's hard but one individual. 

[00:40:50] Toliy: Yeah, I think it's even even harder as one individual.

[00:40:54] Mike: Mm. 

[00:40:55] Eldar: Like what he's saying is that what he's saying is the collective mind of the Democrats, all the Republicans or whatever, is already the collective mind. Right? Sure. And like they're just bouncing off of one another. How can they ever, like, what needs to go in there to infiltrate them in such a way where they start thinking differently mm-hmm.

[00:41:10] Or being challenged in the ways that can change some of the, you know, the abortion fucking takes that they have or you know mm-hmm. Fucking social, social systems and stuff like that. It's like a 

[00:41:20] Toliy: viral multiplication of like, yeah. You could cleanse yourself on something and then they'll, something else will get thrown on to you.

[00:41:25] Yeah. And like, to, to me, like even reading something in like a book, like, like you could read like the, the, uh, truth, but I don't think that that text is strong enough to, um, challenge like you as like a person in that kind of way and be persistent enough to like to do that. Because I'm like, I'm not in the believer that like, like you read something, for example, like a, like a truthful and it's like a wow thing, right?

[00:41:56] Um, like I don't think that that truth is strong enough in just like red words to be strong enough to, to challenge you. 'cause like it could challenge you maybe like intellectually, but I think it's not gonna challenge you like emotionally, uh, like at all. That's why I think a real person with that truth.

[00:42:19] They could do that. 

[00:42:20] Mike: I don't understand how, um, how you, how, how's the emotion tied in to that? 

[00:42:25] Toliy: Well, like there's a part of you that's like logical and then there's a part of you that's like emotional. Mm-hmm. And, um, like an emotional, an example could be like arrogance, for example, right? Mm-hmm. I don't think you can read anything that's gonna challenge your arrogance.

[00:42:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:47] Toliy: Because your arrogance is like, it's, it's like a displayed feeling that like you have and like, 

[00:42:54] Eldar: but, but can you, can you read something long enough to adapt some of the i ideas or ideology? And then you've done it long enough where you kind of let go of some of the arrogance that you previously held from just reading?

[00:43:05] I like, 

[00:43:06] Mike: no, but, but like, uh, give, gimme an exa, gimme an example of somebody who just read and never then never went and shared what he learned. Or like, this is a, like a normal thing people read, they educate themselves and they go and they're still gonna share with people. 

[00:43:22] Toliy: Well, that, that's what I'm saying is that like, you need an actual person to hold you like, accountable and to like, to check you, for you to gain any kind of like, success here, like in, in, in change.

[00:43:36] Because I don't think that those things that you read 

[00:43:38] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:43:39] Toliy: Are gonna be enough to push you over like the, um, like. When you read something and you could test it out, or you think about it like 

[00:43:48] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:43:49] Toliy: Like, you're playing in like an unfair game almost, right? Like, you know, all the rules to the game. Like you give yourself all the answers, right?

[00:43:57] Like you're, you're like playing in like a flawed like, like a flawed reality to, to begin with, right? 

[00:44:03] Eldar: Yeah. I'm having a hard time without like an actual example. I'm having a hard time tying this up in like, um, understanding what you're saying of how like, real change can't happen unless you have someone to balance it off or practice on someone.

[00:44:16] Also, 

[00:44:16] Mike: also we have a, when you read a, when you read something right? You, you don't have logical conversations with yourself like, oh, this makes sense, or it doesn't. Well, 

[00:44:25] Toliy: you can definitely attempt to, okay. But that would be an assumption that you understand how to have a logical conversation to, to begin with.

[00:44:32] Okay. So you could be wrong. 

[00:44:33] Mike: Sure. You could begin with, could be wrong, but could you could also be right. No. Well, you could and, and I think the more you try to read and like, I don't, I haven't read a lot of books so I can, yeah. So I probably wouldn't be a good candidate for trying to do this on my own, but maybe somebody who actually really likes reading and has a lot of experience reading and interpreting, and then I think they can put, put this stuff together.

[00:44:55] Toliy: Yeah. See, I, I don't even think that the, um, like a person who necessarily is experienced in read reading will necessarily be like, better, um, in doing this because like if they come, if they go into it. Already with like flawed understandings and flawed ways, ways of doing things. Mm-hmm. Like them just reading more is not going to like, make them like better at doing it.

[00:45:16] Like they, they might just be like doubling and tripling down on their ignorance, like to begin with. 

[00:45:23] Mike: Well, I, I guess it depends what they're reading and how they're interpreting it now. 

[00:45:26] Eldar: Well, you're saying that the reason why they might be interpreting incorrectly is because they're already flawed? 

[00:45:30] Mike: Sure.

[00:45:30] So if you, 

[00:45:31] Eldar: uh, they just, they might just have like a confirmation bias become more areas. If you, if you're all 

[00:45:35] Mike: about white power and you keep reading white power books, you're probably gonna become more into white power. But if you go and you read a, a book by Buddha mm-hmm. Powered by Gandhi. Yeah. I'm not sure they talk about white power there.

[00:45:46] Yeah. You know? No, I agree. And I think, I think people's minds can be changed. I mean, through reading and through and using logic, you know? I mean, I don't know. That's, that's my thought. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like, how did elder, elder, you are the only educated one here who went to school and all that stuff.

[00:46:05] I'm fucking man, bro, you're the man, bro. You got eight degrees. Yep. How did, how was your experience and like, because you know, we know each other since before you started educating yourself. 

[00:46:14] Eldar: Well, my, I if you, if you want me to defend the, the, the books is the only thing that did it. It definitely did. No, I'm not saying it's, I had a lot of conversations.

[00:46:23] Mike: I know you did, but, but, uh, but was the, so then the books didn't help or they did help? Oh, no, definitely. I think some, some things definitely did. 

[00:46:32] Toliy: And, and, and, and for, for, for example. So, so, um, sorry to interrupt. Just, just an example. If you're the person who's ignorant and you read something like really great.

[00:46:41] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:42] Toliy: Even the idea of you going to bounce that against someone who's ignorant, it could creep the door of, of you having a chance to change. Because the, like if you're, for example, like what you said, like white power, right? Like, like person, right? Mm-hmm. Who's like racist and all that. And then they read, actually read one of those books and it actually sparks curiosity from them to then go to an actual person who is still ignorant and believes like those racist things, if they ask particular questions and see that this person cannot answer them, right?

[00:47:14] Like, they could either go with like, they could either be shut down with like, hey, like, that's like a bunch of Bs and like the, like that, or the fact that this person couldn't answer their questions properly. That could create a scenario where that person now opens the door to get their mind changed.

[00:47:30] But that can only happen when you bounce the idea off another person. 

[00:47:35] Eldar: So, interesting take. Yeah, I understand what he's saying. I've read books. Yeah. Right. And I read really good books, I think. Mm-hmm. You know, the ones that changed my life and I swear by them. Mm-hmm. But. I can't say that, you know, uh, I just went and started bouncing these ideas off of people, and that's it.

[00:47:52] I got it. Right. I agree. Yeah. The, the method of going back and forth, back and forth and ironing out, of course, my elder, I, I remember, 

[00:48:00] Mike: I remember like, yeah. I think everybody went through this lesson. Yeah. Of you learn something and you run and you share it, and you get shut down. Yes. That's right. This happened to everybody here.

[00:48:08] Yeah. I think that, so this is, that's also the part of the process. I think that Yeah. I think to perfect your craft, I think thing is 

[00:48:13] Eldar: Yes. The, the, the interesting thing is like, how do we, how do we learn? How do we get actual knowledge? Right? This is what I think he's challenging probably. Mm-hmm. Um, he's arguing for the importance of having conversations, dialogue.

[00:48:28] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:28] Eldar: Right. And balancing this type of shit off of people and seeing the results. Actual results. Yeah. Not just some theories that you fucking conjure in your head. Sure. Yeah. You know what I mean? That you think that they're right. 

[00:48:38] Mike: But this is, but also he's, he also speaking from his perspective and his hypothetical.

[00:48:44] Right. For sure. And I'm, you know, 

[00:48:45] Eldar: yeah. And I'm trying to like, play devil's advocate a little bit, but, and I, I don't really necessarily understand, I think his point fully, I think. Mm-hmm. You know, 

[00:48:53] Mike: um, no, he's trying to say that everybody's a criminal. Yeah. And then not gonna succeed unless they have somebody who's gonna call him out for being criminal.

[00:49:00] Which I, I think that's a in line with like how he usually goes. You know? I 

[00:49:07] Eldar: think, well, there's something to it. I think there's something to it, you know? Because ultimately I think that he's, uh, putting human interaction to the highest regard. I agree. For sure. You know, for sure. 

[00:49:20] Mike: But there's all kinds of human interaction.

[00:49:22] Yeah, for sure. You know what I'm saying? For sure. Before you can have a philosophical conversation. Yeah. You gotta step away from a different conversation. Like, you know? 

[00:49:28] Eldar: Yeah. You have to have a conversation with yourself probably first. Yeah. Foremost. 

[00:49:31] Mike: You know, and then you can, again, I also think that you attract what you attract.

[00:49:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:36] Mike: You know, if you're gonna start thinking about those things, I think you're gonna find, find more people like-minded and I think, who doesn't think about these things. 

[00:49:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:47] Mike: You know, who's not trying to like, uh, figure shit out or like understand what's happening. 

[00:49:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:53] Mike: Hmm. I think you can have a philosophical conversation with anybody.

[00:49:58] It just kind of, you know, even Harris is a perfect example, right. You can 

[00:50:02] Eldar: have that conversation with anybody. Yeah. You might have that gift. Yeah. To have a philosophical conversation with anybody but a general public. Can they have a, a conversation? Well, if you can. If they could, you probably 

[00:50:13] Mike: would. If you can.

[00:50:15] Yeah. I think if you, if you can, uh, lead them to it. Right. Everybody has mind and they can think for the most part, the capacity. I don't know. It's an interesting one. 

[00:50:27] Speaker 6: All right, 

[00:50:27] Eldar: well, the comparison thing. How do we get here?

[00:50:33] Speaker 6: I dunno. 

[00:50:36] Eldar: You forgot already. 

[00:50:37] Mike: No, I, I, I dunno what we got here. It was, I brought up the idea. 

[00:50:40] Eldar: Yeah. You know. So what do you think, Mike, in order to stop comparing? Do you have to go back and kind of reorder everything that you know, all the values that you hold, all the beliefs that you have about the world that is like, been closed off in these mm-hmm.

[00:51:00] All chests, you know, little treasure trust inside think it's part 

[00:51:03] Mike: of that, but I think it's also then also having a voice to speak up against. Mm-hmm. The times that to speak up then. 

[00:51:11] Eldar: Well, yeah, that's one way. Yeah. Yeah. What do, what do you mean by that? Like, 

[00:51:15] Mike: to speak up, like to bring about, to bring up those topics when I feel like there's, I'm comparing something to bring it up 

[00:51:20] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:51:21] You know, against the people that, that can help you or challenge you and stuff like that. And see whether or not you're making a fair assessment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. But I ultimately, I think it's in order to free yourself from comparison, right? Like, I was thinking about this in comparison, like, and, and I know I'm, I'm also doing some comparison in my own thing when I do things, for example, and I genuinely think, right, I'm making this, this is my assumption that we have the best podcast in the world.

[00:51:44] And now I go out there and I, I'm checking the temperature. I told you I've been checking the temperature out there in the social media world as to who's got what. Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:53] Mike: You 

[00:51:53] Eldar: know? And naturally I do compare. 

[00:51:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:51:55] Eldar: You know, naturally. I'm like, all right, what's this? What's that? You know?

[00:52:03] Like, it's hard for me to be really very intrigued by something that I hear. Mm-hmm. There are some stuff that is intriguing and stuff, but the stamina at which we're at the rate that we're going at and how, like, how long we've been doing this for. 

[00:52:13] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:14] Eldar: We have the stamina, but maybe we don't have the marketing.

[00:52:17] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:18] Eldar: Right. So Sure. There's some, there's some people that marketed one or two or three podcasts and they blew up and they were very nice and they had a bunch of viewership or whatever. Right. But they didn't last long enough. Right. They didn't have the, the, the bandwidth mm-hmm. Or the stamina in order to continue to do it for many years.

[00:52:35] Yeah. Which is very important apparently in the marketing space where you gonna market something, you have to be consistent. You have, if you have an audience, you have to be, you know, on a weekly schedule or whatever. Mm-hmm. The fuck. It's, you know, we have that and we have that pretty effortlessly where this specific thing is very hard to come by for a lot of the people to, to be actually consistent.

[00:52:55] Mm-hmm. Right. This is what they say. You have to be consistent. You have to be consistent. Like they keep saying that for a reason. Right. This's probably one of the most important things when it comes to promoting yourself out there, putting yourself out there. And to me it's like, why do they keep talking about that?

[00:53:09] Mm-hmm. But obviously I'm perceiving, comparing. I'm like, first this is easy. Mm-hmm. That's not, that's, you know, we got the hard part down apparently. You know, the easy part is the, is the marketing part. Mm-hmm. Even though Right. We, I didn't put enough effort or any effort into read the marketing it yet, you know, and obviously it's small because of that.

[00:53:30] So for me to go and have an actual comparison, I would have to compare both apples to apples. But right now we don't have that. The only thing I can compare is the substance. Mm-hmm. You know, and I think the substance is there. 

[00:53:42] Right. 

[00:53:43] So I don't feel any type of way. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? When it comes to comparing our show to somebody else's show, I don't 

[00:53:50] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:53:50] Like, 

[00:53:50] Eldar: I don't have any kind of thing. The more, the more I look, the more fire burns in my ass. Mm-hmm. To say that we have to shut everybody down and we have to box these people out, out, out of their thing because they're just fucking mm-hmm. They're a bunch of goofballs. 

[00:54:02] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:03] Eldar: You know, this is how I feel.

[00:54:04] You know, so I think that when you do make an equal comparison, or a good comparison, or you know how to properly compare, you should be able to then put a fire up under your ass, like totally said before. Right. Put a fire up under your ass. Mm-hmm. You wanna compare, you wanna do some shit, then do something about it.

[00:54:21] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And that's where the healthy comparison can, can actually, uh mm-hmm. Fire you up. Right. Right. And have you take that leap and say, you know what, okay, you wanna compare 'em to, to this podcast or go do the, like, work that they did. Mm-hmm. Go, go hire whatever, go do this promotion, whatever.

[00:54:39] Now let's see. Mm-hmm. You know, and then, and then we'll talk, you know what I'm saying? So that's how I feel. Yeah. That's, I, I was, I was thinking about trying to come up with an example of where do I compare, whatever mm-hmm. And how is it serving me? Yeah. In this specific space. Like, uh, there's no competition.

[00:54:55] That's how I feel. 

[00:54:55] Toliy: Well, that, that, that and all also, like a lot of the growth, like out outside of the marketing, like, like, at least from my understanding, a lot of the top, for example, um, podcasts or whatever shows right. They, they happen from a particular person that has a particular status that people feel about a particular way.

[00:55:19] Mike: Hmm. 

[00:55:20] Toliy: Right. Yeah. Like Taylor Swift does not have a podcast. 

[00:55:24] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:25] Toliy: How many subscribers would she get if she announced it? Oh, millions. That she's having one? Yeah. And the first episode's in two weeks. Yeah. 

[00:55:32] Eldar: Millions. 

[00:55:32] Toliy: But she's never done a single one for, for example. 

[00:55:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:35] Toliy: Why? Because she has particular status, particular fame.

[00:55:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:38] Toliy: People resonate with her a particular way. Yeah. And lots of times they talk about like, the consistency that's always in like, you know, it's, it's the same thing for like streamers online. Mm-hmm. Because you now become like, like someone when when they like adopt your shit and they start listening to, to you, you now become a portion of that person's life.

[00:55:58] Right. So like, it's like any show, like, you know, first day, any of these shows, it's part of you. It's part of you. Yeah. And you expect that to be on at 9:00 AM every single day. Monday, Friday. Yeah. And when it's not there after, like, if it's not there always, then it's gonna be, you're gonna find someone else who is gonna be there at that time, who's gonna fill that gap.

[00:56:16] Yeah. Always correct. Right? That that's why like, you can't just like stream. Once a month, they're gonna be like, you know, what the fuck might tune in? They might not tune in, where are they? But if you're every day for them Right, then they're gonna, you're gonna be someone they can rely on Yeah. Right. To do that.

[00:56:30] Yeah. But a lot of these top, top podcasts, I feel like, like, like, you know, like, like a, um, a very, like re recently, like famous one is like the, uh, Kelsey Brothers, you know, like the one that's dating Taylor Swift? No, he's still playing. Okay. He plays with, with, with Patrick Mahomes, you know? Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[00:56:48] And then his brother, Jason, he just retired. Mm-hmm. And I think their podcast is called, uh, new Heights Podcast. They're one, one of the top, but they're both coming from being, they're both Hall of fame level football players mm-hmm. That then start a podcast. Yeah. So like, it's not necessarily the substance of their words, it's first measured, it's the status of their character, or like the Oh, the podcast, the status of who they are first Yeah.

[00:57:10] Mm-hmm. Is measured, 

[00:57:11] Eldar: right? Correct. Yeah. 

[00:57:12] Like, yeah. So it would not be a fair assessment. Yeah. And I would not be comparing myself to them as well. Mm-hmm. Right. But generally speaking, I'm saying, well, you know, if I was to do a comparison and I saw the things that, you know, apparently are important, they, they come easy to us, whereas somewhere else.

[00:57:29] Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:30] For some people it would not become easy, 

[00:57:32] right? Mm-hmm. But 

[00:57:33] I, but I know why this comes natural to us, and it's easy because we've been doing this for a very long time. We enjoy it. And I think that we actually have some substance that everyone takes something back from, you know. I think the general public can, can also, if they can, number one, tune in, uh, probably focus.

[00:57:50] Right? And generally if they wanna improve their, uh, their own lives, you know, so that, that podcast, this podcast is for them. 

[00:57:59] Speaker 6: Mm-hmm. That's 

[00:58:01] Eldar: right. So what do you think about my comparison? 

[00:58:05] Mike: I think it's reasonable, 

[00:58:07] Eldar: you know? 

[00:58:08] Mike: Yeah, no, I think 

[00:58:08] Eldar: you, do you see yourself kind of comparing also like that? Do you have any kind of examples where you also have that kind of, where you compare, but you have a fire up under your ass, but you don't beat yourself up over it and you don't complain?

[00:58:19] Like, I'm not gonna complain about mm-hmm. What I just said because I know where I stand. Mm-hmm. I am healthy with it. It's healthy and I'm more motivated than anything. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? 'cause of what I know. 

[00:58:31] Mike: Yeah. I would've to think about it, but I think for me the comparison is very like, uh, bad.

[00:58:37] Mm-hmm. You know, because also the negative self like, uh, self-esteem thing. Mm-hmm. Um, and like the lack of self-belief, I think that usually just you compare, you get frustrated, but you don't change anything about it. Mm-hmm. Because you just like feel bad for yourself or like, you know, the pity party, things like that.

[00:58:53] Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the pity party is like a more rare but, mm-hmm. Um, I don't remember when I, when I had one, but like, uh, but like the negative self-talk and not believing in yourself, you just compare. You get frustrated and you're just like, you know, that's it. Hmm. So it's not healthy. You know? Yeah. 

[00:59:11] Eldar: Um, yeah, like for me, I told you there's fire burning.

[00:59:14] Mm-hmm. And it's like sustainable and I like it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. In comparison. Mm-hmm. Like, I know I'm coming. If they don't know I'm coming and I'm gonna fuck them up, that's how I feel. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, like that's how I feel inside. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

[00:59:28] Whether or not it's gonna ever come, uh, that's also a possibility, you know what I mean? But for now, it's burning in me and I'm cool with it. 

[00:59:34] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:59:35] Eldar: You know, like it's sustainable. I like it. You know? That's how I feel. Like if you are gonna compare, do something, if you made actual fair comparisons. Yeah.

[00:59:44] Right. If you actually believed in yourself, then. Mm-hmm. Um, then you have that where you draw power from it, and then you move steadily towards it. Right? Yeah. Versus comparing yourself to a guy, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, who has a Lamborghini who has this, this, and the third mm-hmm. But then you find out that he actually stole some stuff from his friends.

[01:00:05] Yeah. Or he burned his bridge with his parents. Mm-hmm. Or something else, right? Yeah. Where you, where those don't align with your value systems, right? Mm-hmm. And you're not willing to go there, just like in the podcast here, right? Mm-hmm. I'm not willing to do certain things that some, some of the other podcasts are doing.

[01:00:21] Like, you know what I mean? 

[01:00:22] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:23] Eldar: Because I know how that might be detrimental to my health. Like, I spoke to a person who evaluated the podcast and she gave me some suggestions and I said right away, like, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that, and I'm not doing that. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Because it's not for me.

[01:00:37] Right. You know what I mean? I know who I am and not I, I What'd she say? I could tell you that. All fair, man. Oh, okay. That's what Patreon fucking subscribers, bro. Fine, 

[01:00:44] Mike: fine. 

[01:00:45] Eldar: Yeah. No, like one thing she said was change the name. Mm-hmm. You know, for example. Right. She's like, are you willing to change the name?

[01:00:52] Who's Dennis? You know? And I was like, I guess I am. I like, first I was like, I don't hold no attachment to it. But then her reasoning was like, nobody knows Dennis Joe Rogan can get away with Joe Rogan because people know Joe Rogan. Mm-hmm. And then I was like, I thought about it. I sat on it. Well, well, they're gonna find out who the fuck Dennis is then.

[01:01:09] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, that's how I felt about it. Right. But in the, at first, I was kind of open to it to say I don't have attachments to the name. Yeah. But then I was like, the name has its fucking meaning. Yeah. You know, and there's a story and that's where we came from. And the story is gonna be heard.

[01:01:23] Mm-hmm. And if you listen to the podcast, you fucking will know who the fuck Dennis with two ends is. Yeah. You know? And I like it. So yeah. So like, then I thought about like, I'm not doing that. Mm. You know, that's one of the things. Mm-hmm. For example, you know, um, it's some other mundane things that you supposed to do that I don't do, you know, in regards to like, you know, how you edit and stuff like that, and how you run the show, for example, you know, with more structure or whatever.

[01:01:45] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, um, I'm not, I. What it was, it was, um, a lot of it was maybe the suggestion was learn, learn your audience and cater to your audience. And I said, okay, I'm looking to get more audience, but I'm not willing to cater to them. 

[01:02:03] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:04] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because I think I am catering to the audience.

[01:02:06] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:07] Eldar: Right. So I don't know if it's an arrogant take or ignorant take or whatever, but like, I'm not willing to go and start like, oh, we have to do this. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't want to have to do anything, bro. Like, I'm doing this as a fucking side gig. Mm-hmm. Because we like it as friends. Yeah. I'm not doing this because it pays the fucking bills and I have to like, uh, answer to anyone, let alone the audience.

[01:02:28] You know what I mean? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like 

[01:02:30] Toliy: mm-hmm. 

[01:02:31] Eldar: That's how 

[01:02:33] Toliy: well it's called. The audience needs to shut their mouth and listen. Yeah. And will tell in what order they should be listening. Everything in. Yes. 

[01:02:40] Eldar: See, that resonates with me much more mm-hmm. Than what I was being told. You know what I'm saying?

[01:02:44] That's, that's, this is the kind of thing I'm saying and like. I don't know. I don't think I can beat it out of me, bro. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. I agree with him. Yeah. This is what resonates to me. Mm-hmm. What the fuck the audience gonna tell me, bro. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. I know Joe's listening and shit.

[01:02:58] Like, and we talk obviously, but Joe's also a fucking part of the podcast. He's a fucking regular guest. He likes the shit. He knows everything, you know? Mm-hmm. And he, and he has nothing but good things to say. Like, if he was gonna say some shit, I'd listen. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? If you are fucking Joe Schmo, like who's gonna say some shit?

[01:03:14] You know what I mean? You would have to listen through the whole fucking thing. Mm-hmm. 178 episodes with fucking so many hours of, you know, content to really get to know who the fuck we are. And then like, okay, cool. I can really advise these people. 

[01:03:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:26] Eldar: Like, I don't know. You know what I mean? So that's how this, at least this show or the podcast is serving me when it comes to me going out there and comparing, you know what I mean?

[01:03:37] Or allowing somebody to come and kind of, uh, evaluate what's going on and kind of giving certain direction, you know? And she said No. She said at the end, she's like, Hey, I respect that. Mm-hmm. You know, I respect that you got to this place that you are in a good place and that you're strong with, with yours, and you know what you're about.

[01:03:51] Like, she, she saw that. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm like, she was happy for that. I was like, yeah, good. Yeah. You know, because certain, like certain, I told her, I'm like, I'd rather throw money at certain things. Mm-hmm. And have somebody else do it, you know, because I'm just don't wanna waste my time on it. 

[01:04:04] Yeah. 

[01:04:04] I don't wanna be bothered.

[01:04:05] Yeah, I agree. 

[01:04:06] You know, she's, oh yeah, you wanna be the talent. I'm like, yeah, I'm the fucking talent. Yeah. I guess I am the fucking talent. Yeah. Yeah. Joe. Yeah. Uh, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So that's, that's, that's a, I think that's a good healthy example for you, Mike. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? 

[01:04:27] Mike: Yeah. But, but like, for me, like, uh, as you were speaking, I think, uh, it's, there's a lot of stuff going on.

[01:04:32] Yeah. Like I have a lot of sticks and a lot of fires. Mm-hmm. And one of the fires is taking a stance, right? Yeah. So I'm learning to take a stance. Yeah. Right. Um, and I think part of doing a fair comparison is learn is having a stance like, Hey, I'm a rock climber. I have a, I have a right to compare. Well, not a right, but I can compare now because I'm actually like a rock climber.

[01:04:53] Yeah. This is what I do. I enjoy it. I'm an effort to get better. 

[01:04:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:04:57] Mike: Uh, I know who I'm comparing myself with, like given like, uh, and I think a, like, a lot of times, because I don't take a stance, um, I unfairly compare. Maybe that's what made me think like about, I just get frustrated about it. Like, instead of like, Hey, you're not a rock climber.

[01:05:15] But then maybe when I compare, I feel like I'm a rock climber. Mm-hmm. You know, and then I'm like given this like, serious thing to comparison, but it's like not fair because then I, if I'm a rock climber, then okay, then I need to work on certain things. But I'm, I also like having fun 

[01:05:29] Eldar: and not, well, that's the thing.

[01:05:30] I think that what you bring up is a very important point. I think it's defining the titles that we attach ourselves to. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like 

[01:05:37] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:05:38] Eldar: Like. You just said, I'm a rock climber. Uh, if you fucking put real rock climbers, quote unquote here, they're gonna say, you're not a rock climber, my man.

[01:05:46] Yeah. You're a dick climber. You know what I mean? Like, if you're not climbing anything, bro. You know what I mean? Sure. Like, but a lot of times we set ourselves into these traps to say like, we are this, we are that. You know what I mean? Like, no, but 

[01:05:59] Mike: I don't think it's like a necessarily a bad thing. Yeah. If you can then carry yourself like that, like if I say, okay, I'm, well, I'm not sure if 

[01:06:04] Eldar: you should, you know what I'm saying?

[01:06:06] What I'm saying is that if you say I'm a rock climber, you already put yourself in a very specific box, right? Mm-hmm. Because then you also doing other comparisons to other things, right? So then you're like, oh, I gotta do this, I gotta do that. You know? Mm-hmm. When, when you had a lot of negative self, self talk, when you are not doing those, those climbs that we did.

[01:06:24] Mm-hmm. I'm like, you have no right to do that because you haven't practiced enough. You haven't done this enough. Right. You haven't done what was needed to do in order to make these negative, bad conclusions about yourself. Mm-hmm. If you went and actually practiced, then you can say something like that.

[01:06:37] Right. But you are prematurely. Mm-hmm. Right. Es establishing these bad things towards yourself, um, when you are actually not defining anything. Yeah. Where you stand up where you are. I think 

[01:06:48] Mike: that's the, that's what I'm saying, the indecisive stance. Yeah. I still pay the consequences as if I took a stance.

[01:06:54] Yeah. Like I'm beating myself up as if I'm like committed Yeah. To rock climbing. Yeah. You know, but I'm not so. I think that's the problem. 

[01:07:02] Eldar: The thing is, I think it's a, it's a, I mean, you definitely can't tell yourself, Hey, look, I can be a rock climber. I'll be a rock climber, and then hold yourself to that standard if you really, really want to.

[01:07:11] No, no, this is 

[01:07:12] Mike: above, beyond rock climbing. Okay. You know, it's just, I just an idea that Yeah. We're just discussing the rock climbing thing. Okay. But a lot of different things. Okay. You know, the stake stance on, 

[01:07:21] Toliy: I, I don't view this as like a bad thing for Mike. 

[01:07:23] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:24] Toliy: Which one? Like the comparing. Okay. Like, I view this as a very good thing.

[01:07:28] Mike: Okay. 

[01:07:29] Toliy: Like, overall. Well, he's saying it's bad. 

[01:07:32] Speaker 6: Yeah. 

[01:07:32] Toliy: Yeah. I disagree with that. 

[01:07:34] Mike: There you go, Mike. He hasn't, uh, he's entitled to disagree. 

[01:07:38] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're not curious as to why he disagrees with that. 

[01:07:42] Mike: Well, I, um, I, I, I think, I mean, regardless of what I mean, I'm open to hear, but 

[01:07:48] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:07:48] Mike: It's only good if I actually speak about it.

[01:07:50] If I don't like speak about it, then it's not good for me. It's just suffering. And I'll never speak about it. But yeah. Now that I'm talking about it, sure. It's good. I agree. So you understand his point fully, that it's good that I'm talking about it or not? Yeah, sure. That I brought 

[01:08:05] Eldar: it to light. That that, that what you're doing comparison is actually good.

[01:08:09] If I speak about it, I think it's good if that's what's his theory. Do you agree with that? Totally. That this comparison is good for him, like he says, only if he speaks about it. No, no. It's, it's also good when, if he doesn't speak about it. Yeah. 

[01:08:21] Toliy: Why? Because, um, like. It'll definitely be the, the progression about like, of it will definitely be 10 x amplified if, if you speak about it.

[01:08:34] But even if you don't speak about it, like the more you get frustrated and the more you suffer and the more you get into these kinds of things. 

[01:08:42] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:43] Toliy: Um, it's gonna naturally raise particular questions probably at a much slower speed than if you talk about it. But, um, it, it's getting to the bottom of like what's going on in your life and why it's happening and like mm-hmm.

[01:08:58] What desires, what conclusions, like what things you want, why you want to do this, like all these different scenarios and all the different parts that you're comparing, like you will, um, like you, you will very slow, slowly, um, get to the bottom of them. 

[01:09:17] Mike: Yeah. Okay. 

[01:09:19] Toliy: So like the, like the, like the comparison, it feels like a bad thing when you like, examine it, I think, but I think it's a very good thing because of that, because like, it, it, it'll, it'll get you, I think, faster to, um, where you want it to be versus where you, like, you think at that moment when you're comparing, you want to be or you want to do.

[01:09:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. Okay. 

[01:09:43] Speaker 6: Yeah. So he 

[01:09:45] Mike: shouldn't 

[01:09:45] Speaker 6: try 

[01:09:46] Mike: to get rid of it. Mm-hmm. No, 

[01:09:47] no, 

[01:09:48] no. But I also think you said the same thing I said. He said, you can ask questions and every we ask questions, you're gonna ask people. It just, if I don't talk about it, you're still going there. It's gonna take longer to ask the questions.

[01:09:57] If I do talk about it, it's gonna, it is like, this is just a matter of time, which is according to Tom, time doesn't exist, so. 

[01:10:04] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. 

[01:10:05] Mike: You know? 

[01:10:06] Toliy: Yeah. But, but, but, but like, in either scenario, comparing, like, it's still a good thing, I think. Yeah. For, for you. 

[01:10:12] Mike: But have you guys ever heard me like, uh, speak about comparing, comparing myself to all other things like that?

[01:10:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:20] Mike: You have? 

[01:10:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:21] A lot. Yeah. Well, in sports. At least in sports, yeah. In basketball or in, uh, what's his name? Yeah. Uh, your form of comparison comes in the form of judgment. A lot of the times Yeah. Of others first. And then you start beating yourself up afterwards. Yeah. So then I know you've compared, compared, 

[01:10:37] Mike: yeah.

[01:10:38] Yeah, 

[01:10:38] Eldar: yeah, for 

[01:10:39] Mike: sure. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not just in sports though. 

[01:10:42] Eldar: Well, I'm just saying. I like, I remember basketball and I remember rock climbing. That's that's what 

[01:10:46] Mike: I'm saying. You've, you've, I've been holding this in for a long time, the comparison stuff, and I, it's not like, uh, yeah, but I haven't spoken to anybody about it.

[01:10:53] 'cause I guess I never, uh, 

[01:10:55] Toliy: I, I think overall in all of our lives, like, um, the comparing thing I think is much bigger than like, we sometimes think, 'cause like, it, it, it's easy to see when you're black and white comparing something, right? Like mm-hmm. You know, this, that, or like that. We're constantly doing a, a many different of these comparing formulas internally on so many d different topics.

[01:11:16] Eldar: Just like that time that you compared me, uh, with yourself when I told you that I flossed my teeth and you said no, you don't.

[01:11:24] Toliy: Probably. Yeah. Like, like there's there's like a million, like Yeah. 

[01:11:28] Eldar: A million little things. You always compare yourself to Always a hundred percent. 

[01:11:31] Toliy: Yeah. A hundred percent. 

[01:11:32] Eldar: Yeah. You don't do this, you don't do that. 

[01:11:34] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Like, um, and I think we, we underestimate like how many of these things there actually are and how big of an impact it actually has.

[01:11:43] But I think overall it's a good thing because it'll get you like, faster to where you will ultimately like, like where you actually want to go versus where you think you are wanting to go right now. You know? I agree with you. I agree 

[01:11:58] Eldar: with that. I definitely do. Yeah. I think that if you do speak about it and actually raise awareness on some of the stuff, uh, it can definitely uncover a lot of the stuff that you've been holding onto for a very long time that you, that just, just been unchecked.

[01:12:11] Mm. It's just been like a, like a broken record in your head and it's like a noise that's like, you kind of just got used to. It's like the mm-hmm. You know, 86th Street train or something, realize 

[01:12:21] Toliy: mm-hmm. You know, when the podcast is gonna blow up, when slowly Chad GPT is gonna ban the podcasters that are telling people, oh, just stop comparing yourself with others.

[01:12:29] Mm-hmm. When people are looking for a solution, AI is gonna ban all of those people, all those podcasts because they're giving a wrong, like wrong, uh. Advice. 

[01:12:41] Eldar: Well, and, and we actually have this paradoxical conclusions on many different topics. So I think that's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's the No, I told you that are doing this like shit, that AI is gonna co-sign the shit.

[01:12:50] Yeah. When everything's uploaded. All the transcripts, everything. All the blogs. Yeah. You'll see it when they fucking start crawling the shit. It's all for everyone. Yeah, yeah, 

[01:13:00] Toliy: yeah. Because when you say like, hey, uh, like, like, because AI literally reads words logically and literally, right? 

[01:13:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:07] Toliy: And when you're actually looking to accomplish something, it's gonna have to show you the, the podcast that's gonna actually tell you how to do it.

[01:13:14] Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Versus the ones that are giving you like, oh, hey, like, you know, like, don't worry. As long as they, as long as they reference 

[01:13:20] Eldar: us, because, you know, as long as they don't start stealing our knowledge for their own, but nonetheless, it's gonna change the world for the better. So Yeah. 

[01:13:26] Toliy: I 

[01:13:26] Eldar: ain't mad.

[01:13:26] Toliy: Yeah. Like if, like, all the people that are saying, Hey, just, you know, be like, be better. Don't, don't compare yourself, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. You know? 

[01:13:35] Speaker 6: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, anything else to, 

[01:13:42] Toliy: um, it, it, it might be just like a different topic altogether, but I find the concept, um, like when, when, when Mike brought it up and it, and like in general, like we'll bring things up, for example, on this podcast or just in general conversation of things we wanna like, approve in, like improve upon or do, and like maybe we'll get somewhere where like, it sounds like, okay, like things are headed in a good direction, but.

[01:14:07] I think that like, the speed of the change is significantly like, like slowed down when you don't, um, have another person holding you, like accountable for it. Yeah. But, but then my conflict comes in there of like, if you do that, will you get to a point where it becomes like a discipline for you versus like Yeah.

[01:14:35] Like that. Like that that's the only like thing in like internally that I'm thinking about, like, about it. 

[01:14:39] Eldar: Yeah. That's good that you're thinking about it. 'cause I think it's a big, it's a big warning for you to not, you know, fall into the trap of force. 

[01:14:47] Toliy: Yeah. Because there, there is a bit of force when it comes to accountability obviously, right?

[01:14:52] 100% like that, you know? 100%. Yeah. So, 

[01:14:56] Eldar: um, well the most important accountability, right, is the accountability that comes from the self, actual self, I think Right? Where you can Starbucks, where, where you can be honest with yourself mm-hmm. About what you've done and you take accountability, right? Mm-hmm. And you, you know, beat the person to the punch, apologize or something else, right?

[01:15:16] That's the true form, I think is the best form accountability that you can develop and have versus somebody else holding you accountable. You know what I mean? If you did something wrong, you know you did it. You don't have to have fucking the external force, the government, your mom, your dad, you know, police or somebody else say, oh, that's wrong, and now we're gonna hold you accountable for it.

[01:15:36] No, no, no, no. If you fuck up, hopefully, you know mm-hmm. Uh, you beat yourself to it and you're like, okay, this was fucked up. I was wrong, I'm sorry. Or, you know, hopefully you are thinker that you could do preventative care. You don't have to be held accountable at all. We talked about this as well. 

[01:15:53] Toliy: Well, no, but I, I, I was also more saying it and like, um, what'd you guys say?

[01:15:56] I didn't hear it. Um, like the concept of like, oftentimes like, we'll, like, um, we'll talk, we'll, we'll talk about something like on this podcast or just like, uh, or, or just like, out outside of it, and we'll make like some good discoveries or like talk about like a good plan or like mm-hmm. Something that we wanna change about ourselves or like about us, right?

[01:16:17] Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:17] Mike: Um, 

[01:16:19] Toliy: and then we'll kind of go on that like, we'll, we'll all agree upon it, and then like, you know, there's some good breakthroughs, but then like, um, like then it's, then it's kind of left to the, to, to that, to that person that like mm-hmm. You know, now, like, has discovered this and realize this, right?

[01:16:35] Mm-hmm. It's left to them to do it at their own pace and to hold themselves, or not hold themselves accountable mm-hmm. For that thing that was talked about. But if we were to take all those things and like, you know, bring them more to like, like out, out outside of US life. Have someone hold us accountable for them.

[01:16:56] Like it, it feels like the, um, like the speed of accomplishment is going to like, um, skyrocket on those things. But then, but then also it could, um, doing that feels like it could teeter on the line of like discipline as well. 

[01:17:13] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:17:14] Toliy: Right. Where to like, now you, okay. Like you having like, like you're being held accountable for something that you're saying, but like, because you can't operate at that speed of, of like the, uh, discovery you, um, it's gonna feel like discipline 'cause it's gonna be force.

[01:17:32] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Sure. But, you know, uh, sure. But the way, like for example, some of the topics that me and Mike discussed or with you or whatever, I like to get to a point where, uh, we've discussed the topic long enough, strong enough, you know, where you get to the point of that person needs to then go and take action.

[01:17:52] Right. So we eliminate, um, that person's right to complain on the subject matter. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Uh, where the next time you come around, there has to be some kind of actions that was taken. If there was no action to be taken, then you shouldn't be talking. Mm-hmm. You should have no arrogant behavior around this topic.

[01:18:13] You should not be complaining. Yeah. Because you now know that. It is up to you and the ball's in your court to be autonomous. Mm-hmm. And get it done. Yeah. Yeah. Everything else, all the illusions that are holding you back and all this other crap insecurities. Mm-hmm. We talked about it already. 

[01:18:30] Toliy: Yeah. See, like that, that's where I view is that like, oftentimes when you have someone that's holding you accountable, like if you could not view them as like the enemy, but the ally in helping you defeat those invisible forces for yourself.

[01:18:45] Mm-hmm. I think like that's like the most powerful like formula possible. 

[01:18:51] Eldar: I agree with you. I agree with you. Because 

[01:18:53] Toliy: like, 'cause like now you have an unbiased like soldier Yeah. For you that's like extremely powerful. Yeah. To defeat the things that you can't see, which is like, can help you see. Yeah. Like in retrospect almost like, it's like then, then becomes a question as to like, why would you not want that?

[01:19:08] But some, but 

[01:19:09] Eldar: like, I think ultimately though, I think that you should have that in an internal thing where you saw autonomous, that you have that ability to distinguish between what's right and what's Yeah. But 

[01:19:16] Toliy: that's like, 

[01:19:18] Eldar: you know, like an advance 

[01:19:19] Toliy: of being, 

[01:19:20] Eldar: I think that's what we're striving to be. Yeah.

[01:19:22] We're doing philosophy. I think that's what you're looking for. Yeah. So you can stand on your own feet, you know, draw your own power and be really accountable for everything. And, you know, 

[01:19:32] Toliy: do, do you, do you think that, like, 

[01:19:34] Speaker 6: like

[01:19:41] do 

[01:19:41] Toliy: you think that if you don't have someone accountable, like you could. Fall in the trap of being like, of, of living out a false perception. 

[01:19:49] Eldar: What do you mean? We talked about this. Like you're more prone, 

[01:19:50] Toliy: prone to that, right? A 

[01:19:51] Eldar: hundred percent. Of course. Of course. We talked about this many times and many people are currently right now are living out those wrong perceptions.

[01:20:01] But those perceptions are also, like you just said, the the comparison thing, if we labeled it as quote unquote bad, but we just took off the label. Right? It's an earned thing. So if you living out a wrong perception at the end of the tale of that wrong perception that you finally lived out it's truth, so you finally exhausted your dumb ass self.

[01:20:21] Mm-hmm. You hit yourself against that same wall with your head. Right. And you realize like, oh, I was wrong. Mm-hmm. And that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. So those wrong 

[01:20:32] Mike: perceptions, 

[01:20:32] Eldar: everything 

[01:20:33] Mike: is earned though. 

[01:20:34] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:20:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:20:36] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I view the value of like, if you can have a relationship with someone that's like, hold you accountable as uh, uh, uh, it's like such where it results in either like you accomplishing what you want to accomplish and you progressing.

[01:20:49] Or you saying that like, like, hey, like, um, I know you mentioned that you know you wanna do X, Y, and Z, but you're not doing the necessarily steps to do that. So, um, you either do these steps or I don't want to hear you talk about you doing like, you want to be this like x, y, Z person. Correct. For example.

[01:21:08] Right? Yeah. But it doesn't have to be like a fight. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It, yeah, it doesn't have to be a fight, but I think it oftentimes will, 

[01:21:15] Eldar: it's, it's almost like you don't want to be the disciplinarian, uh, applying pressure like a, like a, you know, and talking down to the student almost, you know what I mean?

[01:21:24] You want the student to have that ability to be able to talk down to themselves if they've earned that. Yeah. But I feel like, like if you, if, if Mike, if we came up with a plan, you said, yeah, you agreed upon this, and like, you're not doing it, then like, I don't have to be there. Like, hey, like where are you?

[01:21:40] You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I don't want to be that person, nor the other person doesn't want you to be that person. You should be that person if this is justice. 

[01:21:48] Toliy: Yeah. Like you, you, if you ask justice Yeah. Like, you, you should be, yeah. Like, I feel like if you're a smart individual, you will, um, you will want to be held accountable and you'll be able to have the stamina to be held accountable 

[01:22:02] Eldar: only if you volunteer your software.

[01:22:03] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. You like, you have to want to, 

[01:22:05] Eldar: you have to sign the contract. 

[01:22:06] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I feel like the having the stamina to be be, because it's very difficult for the people that are holding you accountable to not at one point or another, be enemies to, to you. Correct. You know, you what I'm 

[01:22:19] Eldar: saying is that Yeah.

[01:22:20] A lot of the times, right, like, oh, we should hold each other accountable, yada, yada, yada. Yeah. Sure, sure, sure. But sooner or later, the pe the accountability police, um. Okay, here's what I'm gonna say. The equation usually between the two people or the contract is actually formed in the very wrong, exaggerated way.

[01:22:38] Okay. Therefore, the person who wants to be the accountability police is like, you gotta get this done. And the other person's not there yet. They're like, holy shit, this is too much to do now. Mm-hmm. Even though I signed up, even though me and you created this little image or this nice little bubble that we're gonna be in, it's too much to do.

[01:22:53] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? But you said you wanted it, right? You said you wanted it. Right? You are like, yeah, I did. You know? Mm-hmm. But, but you don't have, you don't have it in the tank. You don't have it in ga. You don't know what you don't have, but you don't have the recipe to create what you should be accountable to create.

[01:23:06] So what happens is you have an aggravated situation. You know what I mean? I know this because I, I mean, I've seen this before transpire. Mm-hmm. I don't want to be the person who gets aggravated to do it. Mm-hmm. You should be aggravated with yourself because you're the dumb ass who created the fucking shit.

[01:23:20] Yeah. You know what I'm saying? In the first place. Yeah. That's how I see it. 

[01:23:25] Mike: Well, you always go for the ride though, for many, many trips. I do. I do. That's why I think Yeah. Even when you do hold it accountable and you swing the big hammer Yeah. The person's not gonna be upset with you. Yeah. Because they, they have no, uh, they don't even have the idea to be upset with you because they know that you were on the bus with them, you know, shooting in the gym, whatever they call it, right?

[01:23:45] Yeah. All those times, like, 

[01:23:46] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:23:48] Mike: Anytime you need help or Yeah. Motivation or explanation or anything, you are there. Yeah. So you can't be mad when you get the 

[01:23:54] Eldar: big acts. Well, yeah. Yeah. But it only comes at a very specific time. Yeah. You know what I mean? Of when it's justified. Of course. When it's, there's justice to be done.

[01:24:03] Yeah. And I know for a fact that I can't get backlash back. Like I just, why would I get that? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? I don't want to get into a fucking tiff or a fucking fight that's like, yeah, you're not doing me justice. I should, I should be doing you justice here. You know? Mm-hmm. Trying to help you out here.

[01:24:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:24:17] Eldar: So, yeah. I, I stretched that bend as long as possible in order to, you know, not get any kind of backlash back. Mm-hmm. Why would I need that? Mm-hmm. I don't want to get into those kind of engagements. 

[01:24:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:27] Eldar: Nor do I, if I was to want someone to hold me accountable, I wouldn't want the pressure either.

[01:24:32] Yeah. Of accountability. Yeah. Okay. Like, I'm gonna say, oh, I don't want, I wanna stretch every time we go play basketball. Mm-hmm. Or whatever, you know, and I know your fucking memory is sick. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? The truth is, yeah. I could probably, to me it's also annoying to have to say like, yo, we gotta stretch.

[01:24:46] To me, I'm like, a little bit, no, but you, you, that guy to like, to remind, like, you have a very good memory and you can be 

[01:24:51] Mike: on 

[01:24:51] Eldar: top of the shit, but I 

[01:24:52] Mike: also don't feel comfortable. It's like, I feel like I'm forcing, see, 

[01:24:55] Eldar: if you were to do something, you're forcing. And number two, after a while, like I'm gonna say, I don't wanna fuck that reminder anymore.

[01:25:01] It's pissing me off because I actually don't wanna fucking stretch. Yeah. You know, I have my reasons as though I don't wanna stretch. 

[01:25:05] Toliy: But, but isn't it like, isn't that like, if it plays out in that kind of way, like either way it's a good thing. No. Be be because you are the one that, that had this desire to begin with.

[01:25:16] You said this. 

[01:25:17] Eldar: Yeah. I I I 

[01:25:17] Toliy: made the wrong desire. Yeah, yeah. Also the process. Therefore, therefore, I 

[01:25:21] Eldar: stay away from asking for that kind of accountability. 

[01:25:23] Toliy: Well, well, well, that's what I'm saying, but I'm saying that like, if you actually did say that, Hey, like Mike, every time we'll play basketball or this, no.

[01:25:30] See, I 

[01:25:30] Eldar: see. I know this. So what I'm gonna say is I'm gonna say to him like, Hey, Mike, next time we play basketball, remind me to stretch. Now, if Mike goes and starts reminding me the third and the fourth time, I'm gonna say, Mike, I only told you the next time. 

[01:25:44] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:25:44] Eldar: One time. 

[01:25:44] Toliy: But I'm saying that the person that says, Hey, hold me to it or do this.

[01:25:48] Yeah. Like, I don't, like, even if it starts like a little bit of w of like a war, I don't want want the war. I don't necessarily don't 

[01:25:55] Eldar: want the war. 

[01:25:56] Toliy: No, but I'm saying that like, someone brought that upon themselves. So they sh like, they, like if, if they're held accountable for what they're saying Yeah.

[01:26:04] They'll either say like, Hey, yeah, I actually don't wanna stretch every time. Which is a good thing. Now you're saying that like, you actually don't wanna do this. Mm-hmm. Or you reap the benefits of stretching every time. And then you agree that like, Hey, yeah, thankfully I have someone that, that remembers this, and Yeah.

[01:26:17] Or, 

[01:26:18] Eldar: or I can be smart enough to say every single time and tell Mike, Hey, remind me to stretch. Yeah. Next time. But because, but also, I'm smart enough to say it that way. I'm gonna be smart enough to not ask in the first place. 

[01:26:30] Mike: Yeah. The is it's, and that's how I'm gonna empower myself. It's, it's a BS thing.

[01:26:33] Like, like your thing, you asking me, him asking me to remind him. It's saying like, Hey Mike, you know what, this is really not important enough for me, even though I have back pain, neck pain. Mm-hmm. All this pain. Yeah. It's not important for me to remember this. 

[01:26:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:26:46] Mike: You helped me to remember this. It's like, yeah.

[01:26:49] It's, it actually shows where he is at and the person who's receiving the request. And anytime that I was asked to remind somebody, like something like this, maybe I also feel like weird. Like, yo, I don't want to be like a, I know that feeling. Your parents, it's, it's 

[01:27:01] Eldar: like lending the money to a person. Yeah.

[01:27:03] And then you have to remind them to fucking pay you back. To pay you back. Yeah. Like what? It's annoying. 

[01:27:07] Mike: No, 

[01:27:07] Eldar: it's 

[01:27:07] Mike: bad. It's bad. It's bad. So I'm in an uncomfortable position. Correct. He doesn't wanna do something that he clearly doesn't wanna do because Yeah. Has he ever asked you to remind him to go gardening or to go play basketball or to do something that he loves or that he values?

[01:27:19] No, 

[01:27:19] Toliy: but, but, but, but that's what I'm saying, that like, if he does a ask that like it ends up in a good place regardless. 

[01:27:26] Eldar: No, 

[01:27:27] Toliy: I don't 

[01:27:27] Eldar: want to go through that. 

[01:27:29] Toliy: No, but I don't want the force. But you wouldn't say that 

[01:27:30] Eldar: then. That's what I'm saying. No, I'm talking 

[01:27:33] Toliy: about from the, from the, 

[01:27:34] Eldar: from the position 

[01:27:34] Toliy: of someone 

[01:27:35] Eldar: saying 

[01:27:35] Toliy: that.

[01:27:36] Eldar: Well, I think someone saying that still didn't get it, didn't get the point that we're trying to say here. Yeah. 

[01:27:40] Toliy: Like if, if, if, if Harris says like, Hey, like going forward, like, um, I'm only going to eat once a day and like, uh, like hold me to that. Yeah. But he doesn't believe that, right? Well, no, but no. No problem, right?

[01:27:53] Mm-hmm. But, um, the, like, the person who has a nerve to say, say that is like an arrogant person who's not thinking, right? And if they say this, like, and you hold them to, to it, to me, like, it, it, it goes in a good direction regardless, right? Either the person's, either it's gonna actually happen, which is probably not going to right, or the person's gonna be like, Hey, like, yeah, actually I'm not gonna like, like I actually can't eat one today and don't hold me to it.

[01:28:20] Mm-hmm. I can't do, do this. Yeah. You doing that enough times, like you're gonna start to think before you speak, 

[01:28:25] Eldar: correct. 

[01:28:26] Toliy: Right. Correct. So that, that's what I'm saying though. Like, not, not, not that you should be doing this. Yeah. I'm saying that if you do do it, you should be held to it. I agree with you. I that's 

[01:28:37] Eldar: what I'm saying.

[01:28:38] I agree with you. But I think that, again, I'm, it leads to learning. It does lead to learning Yeah. Through pain. 

[01:28:43] Toliy: Yes. But, but you ask for that pain, 

[01:28:45] Eldar: correct. 

[01:28:46] Toliy: Correct. Sure. But like if you, but if that never happens, I think it's difficult for the person to learn like the magnitude of their words and their actions.

[01:28:54] I agree. Like I agree, 

[01:28:55] Eldar: but I mean, if you're smarter, right? If you can then see preventative care in the force that is being applied, uh, you quickly find out that like, oh, okay. Like I can, that don't need that. I'm gonna try my best to do it 

[01:29:07] Toliy: myself and hold myself accountable. So then what's, what's the proper balance of like making discoveries like, um, group agreed upon mu mutual like conclusions and then.

[01:29:22] Being held accountable for those and progression happening? Like how do you figure out what's like the, well, again, 

[01:29:30] Eldar: a lot of times when we come, right, when we come to, uh, to our friends or our family members and we start complaining right about something. Yeah. Like Mike came complaining about, I don't always complaining about recently, most recently came, complain about something,

[01:29:46] I don't know, not sleeping well at home right now or whatever. Mm-hmm. Right. He's like, ah, fuck man. You know, like this, this, so he starts to paint the picture. Mm-hmm. Okay. And the picture is very clear. Yeah. Eldar, I'm not feeling good. I'm not happy because of this. Yeah. Okay. We start digesting that this thing that he's talking about very thoroughly.

[01:30:08] Okay. Okay. We start creating solutions towards this thing. Yes. Okay. Mike starts to evaluate the solutions. Can he do them? Can he not do them? And then quickly you come to find out that it's much easier to not talk about it anymore and just drop the complaining part and not do the actual work. 

[01:30:27] Mike: Yes. And 

[01:30:27] Eldar: the problem goes away.

[01:30:28] Yes. I'm trying to tell you that there's not necessarily always the correlation between the actual problem and what they're looking for solution to be. You know what I mean? Like, oh, like there's a problem and this is the solution that I need in order to solve this problem. A lot of time the problem goes away when you find out what's behind the, the steps that needed in order to get there.

[01:30:48] 'cause you are like, oh shit. I was shooting in the wrong direction, I was throwing a fit, and you are like, unsubscribe, I don't wanna do this. And then you don't talk about it again. Okay, but what about the thing, the, the problem solved, the problem didn't even exist. What I'm saying is that the person didn't correlate the situation properly, right?

[01:31:08] Mm-hmm. A lot of times people come to you and say, Hey, totally, I have this problem. I'm, I'm willing to do whatever. And then you're like, okay, let's see. And next thing you know, they're not willing to do whatever. Right? Yeah. And that's it. They dropped the problem. Yeah. This is what I'm talking about. 

[01:31:25] Speaker 6: Yeah.

[01:31:25] But 

[01:31:26] Toliy: I'm saying that like,

[01:31:30] when there's mutual agreeance, let's say in our example here between like the three of us as to like, like, um, okay, like this is an important situation. Like, would the like, like this is what needs to be done. Like, you know, stuff like that, right? Um, in those kinds of scenarios, like how do you figure out what's the proper balance of like, um, like the, these, these things would actually like physically start to get solved if you had proper accountability and proper like, um, persistence with like, with accountability, it creates like a particular persistence, right?

[01:32:10] Like to, to, to the, uh, situation? Not necessarily. Not 

[01:32:13] Mike: necessarily. No. You could run, you could hide. Yeah. You could just drop it and never talk about it. Yeah. No. You know what you're talking about. It made me think about something, uh, which is, uh, it's like a general statement, but I like a, the talking is done like, you know, in a group setting, but the actual work, it's a, it's a, it's a solitude thing.

[01:32:36] Like, uh, and why, why I said that. Like, um, it made me think about losing weight. You know, we can talk about strategies, we can talk about tips, ideas, diets, exercise routines. Mm-hmm. But at the end of the day, you have to go and hold yourself accountable to make sure you do those things. Like until you hold yourself accountable and take ownership of it, I don't think it's, you can be successful in anything.

[01:32:59] Just the weight loss thing was something that I went and I tried to do many times. Yeah. And I kept failing. I think the key word is ownership. Taking the ownership of it and Correct. And then, and I think that's correct. That's what it is. And then you don't need to have somebody to tell you like, yo, did you do this?

[01:33:14] Did you do that? Correct. You have to tell yourself, did I do this? Did I do that? Am I satisfied with, with effort that I put in towards whatever goal I set for myself? You know? So I think the failures and the suffering many times lead to now saying, okay, I'm not gonna, you know, put it on anybody else. I'm gonna put it on myself.

[01:33:35] And then you take the ownership, you take the accountability. I think that's how it works. 

[01:33:39] Eldar: Yeah. Um, and I think that that's where you get the most amount of meat and potatoes. Mm-hmm. You extract the most amount of good. Mm-hmm. You extract the most amount, amount of power. Yeah. Right. When you are self-accountable, it is the most important thing.

[01:33:52] Yeah. You know, in your development, in your actual self-development mm-hmm. That's self-accountability. You know, you can get a kickstart from someone, someone's help a little bit, but ultimately you should do it on your own. Yeah. You're a hundred percent right. Yeah. You know, because having, what's his name, A person who's an accountability police is also conserve as a scapegoat, right?

[01:34:13] Yeah. No, but I also, yeah, sorry. My bad. Yeah. Where like, okay, I have this person to remind me. Right. We have Harris, who's very good at this, right? Mm-hmm. We tell him like, this is what you should do, this is what we're gonna do, and then next thing you know, he's not concentrating on the things that he's supposed to be doing.

[01:34:29] He's focusing on things that we are not doing. Mm-hmm. As the accountability police, right? Yeah. And then you're like, wait a second, this is a reversal here. Mm-hmm. So he's justifying his wrongdoing. Yeah. Because we didn't remind him of the right doing. 

[01:34:40] Yeah. 

[01:34:40] Which is also a very crazy phenomenon. Mm-hmm.

[01:34:42] Yeah. You know what I mean? Or, or the way he came to my house and said, GI up is dead. Mm-hmm. Get your life in order. Plan is dead. Yeah. He's telling me this. Right. And he's looking at me looking for response. I said, mm-hmm. Okay. Are you under the impression that, uh, I'm supposed to cry and beg you not to do it right now?

[01:34:58] Mm-hmm. He's under the impression that it's for me. Mm-hmm. Somewhere he tied it. 

[01:35:03] Toliy: Wait, how so? How is he tying it to you in that example? 

[01:35:06] Eldar: I'm explaining to you that the way he's looking at me and the way the reaction that he is looking for me, some kind of approval or something, right, is that somehow I am tied to this GI up thing and I have to like either save it, rescue it, or rebuttal him.

[01:35:19] Mm-hmm. Right into it. Like, I'm like, well, you made the decision, right? Mm-hmm. So then stand behind it. I don't give a fuck. Oh, yeah. I didn't even know that he's said this to me. Mm-hmm. He said this to me. 

[01:35:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:35:30] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. Why is that? Because I am tied to it as an accountability police. Mm-hmm.

[01:35:37] I don't want 

[01:35:37] Mike: like, no, I, I think, I think like what I, what I was just thinking about is, um, like if I have some, like if I have a value, right? Mm-hmm. We have like values Yeah. Individual, we have our own values, things that we value or morals, ethics, right? Yeah. We have those. Right. Just because you have those values and we are sharing some kind of experience together mm-hmm.

[01:35:59] Does not mean that my values or your values now belong to me. Correct. I cannot tap into those. Mm-hmm. So the problem is if you want to achieve something and to be successful at it, I think you, it has to become a value right. For you. But a lot of times those values, they're, they're not actually rooted in what.

[01:36:24] Value is supposed to be rooted. Like somebody says, yo, I wanna lose weight. You know, I wanna look good. I want to get mad bitches. Or like, you know, I want to impress, uh, everybody I wanna look, have a six pack. That's a set of values that's rooted probably in ma like a material, like a world or like a physical world.

[01:36:40] But if somebody says, yo, you know, like, I'm unhealthy, everything hurts. I'm in pain. It's hard to do this, hard to live my life. I want to get healthy. Right? That's two same things. You want to lose weight, but the value, the thing that you're putting the, like the, that's your anchor is the health right. Or whatever it is that you set out to do.

[01:37:00] And I think that's like the big, that's a big kicker. So like, finding that balance, that question is how do you, I don't know if it's like convince yourself, but how do you believe that that what you're doing on, uh, is for the right reasons, I guess? 

[01:37:16] Eldar: Well, yeah, and I think that having accountability police, right?

[01:37:21] It's almost like exerting, allowing yourself the gaps of where you're gonna fall. Fall. It's like, it's almost giving yourself the out like, oh, I'm fucking up, but that's okay. 'cause the guy's got me, you know, they're gonna remind me. And that's what was happening. Like, he came in with a crazy arrogant statement and said, this shit is dead.

[01:37:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:37:39] Eldar: And I'm like, you think you're doing this for me? Why would you take away something that we talked about that eating, eating, uh, eating well, sleeping well. Mm-hmm. A little bit of exercise and not vaping. Right now, you would take away the, the good stuff 

[01:37:52] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:37:53] Eldar: While you experiencing the stuff that we implemented this for in the first place.

[01:37:57] Mm-hmm. Doesn't have an answer for me. No. Well, because he doesn't actually value those things. Exactly. He did not take ownership Yes. Or understands Yeah. What this is 

[01:38:07] Yeah. 

[01:38:07] About in the first place, of course. And obviously he's like, he's looking at me, he is like, wait, elder doesn't give a fuck. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

[01:38:15] Yeah. He quickly starts the process. Like the reaction that he was looking for, he didn't get mm-hmm. He wanted me to beg him. Mm-hmm. Don't, no, I'm, no, don't do this. You know, trust me, you regret this. He wanted me to do the pity party 

[01:38:27] Mike: mm-hmm. And convince him 

[01:38:28] Eldar: otherwise, you know? And obviously I'm like, all right, you wanna jump, jump off?

[01:38:32] Mm-hmm. I don't give a fuck. I'm like, you, you digging yourself a hole, you're being depressed. He's like, yeah, this is what I always do when I stress. I just dig myself into a hole, is like, you know, and I get to a point where I just wanna like, drop everything and just like give up on life. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm gonna go jump off the bridge now then.

[01:38:48] Mm. Why the fuck you stretching this shit? Go jump off the bridge. Oh, I don't wanna jump off the bridge. I don't wanna kill myself. Mm-hmm. Well, okay, so you don't wanna kill yourself, right? But you're killing yourself slowly. Yeah. Why the fuck are you doing this? Right? You understand that right now, in this moment, which is a, uh, not a permanent moment, you're digging yourself into a hole.

[01:39:07] I said, he's like, yes, I know this. I'm like, okay, so what's the reason? Because soon you're gonna have a moment of clarity and you're gonna have to dig yourself out of it. He goes, yeah, I would have to. Mm-hmm. I'm like, alright. So what is the point of doing it in the first place? Couldn't answer me. Yeah. 

[01:39:23] Toliy: But, but why, why was he saying that it was dead?

[01:39:25] Like, like, like in general, right? 

[01:39:26] Eldar: It's just too much right now. Too much with the stuff that's going on. So what 

[01:39:29] Toliy: he, was he saying that it's dead for now or he 

[01:39:30] Eldar: was just like, no, he just, well, I think he meant that right? He probably meant that. Yeah. Well, because it was a hard moment or whatever. Yeah. But what are we talking about?

[01:39:39] He 

[01:39:39] Mike: saw an opening, you know, like water. It needs to find a little thing. Yes. And then he's gonna crack. Correct. And Joe. And Joe, yes. And Joe also gave him the past. Shout 

[01:39:46] Eldar: to Joe. Shout out to Joe who gave him the past. Yes. And I think Joe understood that. He called me right away too. He was like, yo, I spoke to Harris, whatever.

[01:39:52] So we discussed that whole thing, right? Yeah. And we deduced again, like gi is not for elder. Totally. Joe or Mike. Mm-hmm. It's for you. Mm-hmm. You're dumb ass. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like you're taking away the one, uh, light at the end of the tunnel that you have. Yeah. What's wrong with you? Mm-hmm.

[01:40:09] Well, guess what? At the end of the thing, when he was leaving my house, he was yawning like crazy. I'm like, you should sleep. He says, yeah, I'm gonna go home, sleep. He said, elder turned around. Gil's not dead. I'm like, well, duh. Yeah. Don't do me any fucking favors here. Yeah. It's for you. Yeah. You dumb ass. You know what I mean?

[01:40:25] So I have to remind him. Mm-hmm. Right. That he should take ownership of something that's good for him. 

[01:40:30] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:40:31] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[01:40:32] Toliy: I don't What do, what do you think is that transfer of 

[01:40:34] Mike: ownership? Well, transfer of ownership meaning whatever, actually, actually hold, it's in the beginning actually. Taking ownership.

[01:40:43] You mean not transferring? 

[01:40:44] Toliy: Well, well, no, I think it's like transferring a view it almost, because it's like lots of times when you, um, like when you ask for help on something or like you, like want 'em to do, do something you like in those moments you're trying to tap into like someone else that may understand this.

[01:41:01] Right. And they, they, in that conversation, like, or in that relationship, they can own those like subjects. Right. And, um, there comes, there comes a point where I, where I think that you can get that ownership transferred to yourself when you actually are ready to take ownership and you actually like, uh, like, uh, do that.

[01:41:23] But those concepts like, like you were saying, like they belong to us, for example. Not, not to him. 'cause he doesn't have those values. Right. 

[01:41:31] Eldar: Well that's why right now we're doing what we, we playing the reminding police almost. Right? Yeah. Like, Hey, the only reason why we established this in this first place is because you are nagging us.

[01:41:40] Mm-hmm. You are like, yo, I am fucking dying. My heart hurts. I can't sleep. I am fat. Help me. So we said, okay, we'll put the minds together and we'll do it. You were fucking bothering us. Remember? You bothered us for this. Yeah. So our job is to remind them long enough Right. And not fold. He came and he wanted me almost to scold him to, to, to tell him, no, don't do this.

[01:42:06] Yeah. Right. Just like he said, Elda, what should I do? Should I go over there or not? Right. Those people who are not empowered or who don't take ownership, they want others to tell them what to do. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. And that's not ultimately what I would want my friends to be, you know what I'm saying? I want them to know the difference between doing something and not doing something and when to do it and when not to do it.

[01:42:27] To be completely empowered. Mm-hmm. And stand behind their own selves, their own decision making. So what 

[01:42:32] Toliy: the thing is that like how do, 

[01:42:33] Eldar: how do you, I know how, how well long enough, right. For him to be able to see it for what it is himself. Mm-hmm. And, um, tweak it in such a way where it's his. But I also think after he's 

[01:42:46] Mike: seen the results, I think also long enough, uh, it's maybe, it's maybe habit.

[01:42:52] The response, the behavior that he has, right? Yeah. The, the throwing the fit, wanting the pity party. Yeah. Feeling sorry. Yeah. These are habits, you know, for sure that they, they've quote unquote work for him. Once you realize that those habits no longer work for you and you don't want them to work for you, then you can take the ownership of it and say, yo, I don't wanna work this way.

[01:43:11] Correct. He's operating only this way because this is the way he's learned to operate for a very long time. Yeah. And it's just autopilot, you know, once he recognizes and he's like, wait. This is what I'm doing. Fuck that. Yeah. I want to do it the value driven way. The value proposition's much better.

[01:43:28] Believe in myself, have confidence in in myself. Correct. Be healthy, feel good, wake up in the morning like a human being. Yeah. I don't want the pity party anymore. I don't want the fucking Yeah. Agree. Negative self talk. Agree with that. No, I, that's what's 

[01:43:42] Eldar: he's asking, where does it actually shift 

[01:43:43] Toliy: and Yeah.

[01:43:44] No, and I'm saying like, do you, do you like, do you like, like I, I understand in the, in the way. That is why I'm always 

[01:43:49] Eldar: willing to set, uh, to have court right there. And then I told them, okay, you dropping this, go kill yourself. That's holding court. Mm-hmm. Like, you talking shit. Right. Like, yo, you digging yourself a hole.

[01:44:00] You just, you you're saying to me, you're threatening me almost saying like, this is what I always do. I always just wanna just throw in a towel. Like, why are you telling me this shit? You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. You're complaining out loud. Alright. Put it to it. If not, if you're not gonna go jump off the train, uh, onto the train right now or jump off the bridge mm-hmm.

[01:44:15] You are faking it to me. Mm-hmm. You created an illusion mm-hmm. That I don't believe in. So stop telling me this shit. 

[01:44:22] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:44:22] Eldar: You're not about this life. 

[01:44:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:44:24] Eldar: I know it. And you're gonna know it too. Mm-hmm. So, cut it out. He went and took a nap. 

[01:44:29] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:44:30] Eldar: He was yawning the whole time because it was fucking resonating with him.

[01:44:33] Mm. You know? That's it. 

[01:44:35] Toliy: But, but like, so I, I understand the way that you're saying it now, like, long, long enough, you complain. You have these conversations, stuff like that. No. 

[01:44:43] Eldar: But long enough Yeah. That you keep throwing your delusions Yeah. Onto the world like us. Yeah. And they don't stick anymore. Yeah.

[01:44:49] Because this thing that he does. Yeah. These little, uh, antics and these little fits, acting fits. They've worked for a very long time. Yeah. Quote unquote for him. Yeah. To be justified. 

[01:45:01] Yeah. 

[01:45:01] A slob. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? In life. 

[01:45:04] Yeah. 

[01:45:04] And now he came here and everyone's like, wait, what are you doing? He, he, he's picking up the phone every time like this.

[01:45:11] Like if he's in pain or something. Yeah. Yeah. I started doing it too, like that. Mm-hmm. He's like, what are you doing? I'm like, what are you doing? I'm like, I thought we were acting. You know what I mean? Like, he starts laughing. Yeah. I'm like, I thought you're hurting. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I'm challenging everything.

[01:45:24] That's like, you, you putting on an act, my man. Like, you don't have to act with me, bro. 

[01:45:28] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:45:28] Eldar: You know what I mean? Whatever it is that you're doing, whatever you're fishing for, you are not gonna get from me. I'm gonna tell you the most craziest, ridiculous shit back. You know what I'm saying? It's not gonna work.

[01:45:39] Mm-hmm. So either you shape up, see things for what they are, or go jump off the, off off the bridge. 

[01:45:45] Toliy: Do you, do you think that people that are prove it, looking for those pity parties, in those mo moments, they're the most sensitive to like, sarcasm, back to them? 

[01:45:56] Eldar: Sensitive. 

[01:45:57] Toliy: Sensitive in the what? Good way or bad way?

[01:45:59] Like, like, like. Like, you know, they're faking it obviously, because like they know when you're being, when you're doing that back to them almost. Right? Oh yeah. That's what I'm, I'm saying very good at 

[01:46:09] Eldar: slicing through that. 

[01:46:10] Toliy: Yeah. Like they're very good at spotting that behavior, I'm saying. Oh, yeah, a hundred percent.

[01:46:14] Which means that they already know the answer before they even Correct. But I'm, I'm, I'm trying to figure out like, 

[01:46:19] Eldar: like long enough of this type of behavior. Yeah. The gig is up and then you're like, oh, I have to be conscious here because these motherfuckers ain't sleeping. I can't put a fucking, uh, a wool over their eyes.

[01:46:31] No, 

[01:46:31] Toliy: but I'm talking about in the, in, in the act of taking ownership of something. That's what I'm saying. But can you do it without like that, that whole process in, in, in, in between, that you're talking about by yourself? I 

[01:46:44] Eldar: don't think so, bro. 

[01:46:45] Toliy: No, no. That's why I'm saying that like, as you get better at things, like, like can you have a conversation with one of us to take ownership of something, for example?

[01:46:53] Or like, or is it, do you think it's the same process no matter what part of development you are? 

[01:46:59] Eldar: Uh, depending, depending on the ego and the arrogance and pride, all those things, the attachment, all those things have to be weeded out until you finally see it for what it is, and then the person drops it on their own.

[01:47:11] 'cause they don't want to be, that. They have to consciously see that it's, it's the delusions and the ego is actually doing this to finally like, oh wow, what the fuck's wrong with me? You know what I mean? Now I'm here present moment, and I've controlled this reality for themselves. The outcomes. They become God of their own reality, but then they have no other choice in the matter, but to behave.

[01:47:30] Accordingly and be nice. That's what it is, you know, 

[01:47:34] Speaker 6: but the, the, the steps are the same. Mm-hmm. Okay. You know, I think 

[01:47:42] Eldar: it's a cool journey, but it's, it's like, it's the same. It's always the same. Like, we don't see anything new under the sun, like we say. Mm-hmm. 

[01:47:48] Toliy: Oh. 'cause like, ego is ego arrogance as Eric.

[01:47:50] Eldar: Yeah. And the ego tries to play the same tricks, and it's so bad. We talked about this today, remember? Mm-hmm. It's like, it's so lame and it's so bad, but it's very good for that person. For that person. Yeah. You know, because it's, it taps into the most, the, the weaknesses. It knows how to play your, on your buttons.

[01:48:04] Yeah. You know what I mean? But that's again, also like a 

[01:48:08] Mike: response. I've been serving you. Maybe you learn behavior Yeah. That, that you learned. 

[01:48:13] Eldar: But that's why I, I kept asking him. I'm like, okay, cool. You keep telling me that you do this all the time. 

[01:48:18] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:48:19] Eldar: When something happens, you stress out. You have this anxiety and all this other crap.

[01:48:22] What happens? This right here, it's like, um, I asked them, you wanna keep doing this? No. Mm. Okay. So then why do you do it? Mm-hmm. Answer me this question. Why do you do it? The ego. Mm-hmm. Okay. Has to die 

[01:48:37] Speaker 6: in that moment of that answer. Well, it always says the same thing. I don't know. Yes. Mm-hmm. 

[01:48:43] Eldar: Right. As soon as it finds out that gap between not knowing that thinking to know it dies.

[01:48:51] Mm-hmm. It finds out that like, oh shit. I'm doing this because I'm a selfish piece of shit and I want a pity party. Mm-hmm. Nobody's gonna admit to that. A normal Yeah. 

[01:49:01] Toliy: Yeah. Like that. That's crazy. 

[01:49:03] Eldar: You understand this. So it dies right there and then if you can admit that to yourself. 

[01:49:09] Speaker 6: Kicks up. Yeah. 

[01:49:13] Eldar: Kicks up.

[01:49:15] I told you I threw a pity party today at the physical therapy. Yeah. I come in and they, they're happy go lucky guys. And like, I like that. Like, you know, I told you I like them. They have good energy. Like you. Yeah. You feel better as soon as you walk in. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? My back, I pulled my back really bad for context, you know, really bad, like paralyzed bad where I can't move and shit.

[01:49:34] Playing basketball and I walk in there right. And they're like, eldar, you know, they're happy to see me. We talk and shit. Yeah. We talk shit funny, whatever. And I'm like, oh, you know what I mean? Like mm-hmm. I feel that I, you guys know I'm in pain. I'm not. Faking it. Mm-hmm. But I fucking exaggerated this shit, of course, because I'm looking for their pity party.

[01:49:55] I want them to wrap their hands around me and hug me and massage the fuck outta me and bring me back to life. We're gonna fix you. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, you know, and he's obviously says that, you know, come here, I'll take care of you. I'll take care of you. And he scolded my ass, you know, bite for me, not coming on time.

[01:50:09] He's like, yo, why don't you come right away? I'm like, bro, I'm fucking scared. She mean, come on time. I can't even fucking move. Mm-hmm. I can't. I'm piss in bed in the bottle. 

[01:50:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:50:16] Eldar: You know what I mean? Catherine's carrying me fucking from door to door, you know what I mean? Like, how do I come with this? He's like, nah, you gotta come.

[01:50:22] So, you know, I go through the whole motions of beating myself up. He's beating me up. I'm getting the pity party. He's gonna fix me up. But I'm doing that. I know I'm doing that. Yeah. Fucking acting. You know what I'm saying? It was bad day. But you know, you're acting, I'm bringing back Monday, bro. Yeah. To them.

[01:50:36] Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I know this. I'm reflecting on it that mm-hmm. We all do this shit. You know what I'm saying? Especially when we in pain. But you know this, but ultimately, I'm telling you right now. I don't want them to fucking tell me like, oh, you're 40 years old, you're old. It's time to hang it up.

[01:50:50] I don't fucking believe that shit. I don't want the fucking pity party. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't want this shit. This shit is fucking stupid. You know what I mean? I, the, the pity party is 

[01:50:57] Mike: what is like, uh, like, is it like in, I don't, I don't know this case, but like, it's saying like, Hey, I know I fucked up.

[01:51:04] Yeah. But tell me I'm a good boy still. Correct. It's a wild thing. It is a wild thing. It's absolutely terrible. Yeah. But also it's like not taking accountability or of like, Hey, I mean, sure of 

[01:51:14] Eldar: what Mike, 

[01:51:15] Mike: but what am 

[01:51:15] Eldar: I specific? Accountability. No, I'm not saying your thing I that I need stretched. I'm saying, okay.

[01:51:18] Fuck. I'm not talking about your example, but I'm saying 

[01:51:20] Mike: in general, the pity party Yeah. Is always like, Hey, I know I did wrong. Yeah. But treat me as like a good boy. Like I did everything. Right. Correct. And gimme the pass, but you wanna give you 

[01:51:28] Toliy: the pass. Correct. But, but it's a response. You usually indicate that like you're not very good at tolerating the pain that you're enduring right now, right?

[01:51:37] Mm-hmm. Like, you're in too much pain and you want kind of like 

[01:51:39] Mike: mm-hmm. You 

[01:51:40] Toliy: know? Mm-hmm. Which is, which is I know how 

[01:51:42] Eldar: this works. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I was fucking farming them for it, you know what I mean? You were, and that's not a good quality, bro. 

[01:51:50] Mike: No, I agree. 

[01:51:50] Eldar: I know, I know this because I know what people fucking do.

[01:51:52] That's manipulation, bro. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? 

[01:51:55] Mike: Yeah. But what, uh, what do you think he, he understands what he was doing when he is asking for the pity party. Who, Harry? No. Are you crazy? He's just 

[01:52:04] Eldar: behaving, right? No. My job is to raise awareness on that. Yeah. You know what, what I'm saying? It's 

[01:52:08] Toliy: a natural habitual response.

[01:52:10] Right. No, I agree to do that when he's in, yeah. Too much pain because he's gotten a particular, you would never throw a pity party if you don't get the pity correct. Guaranteed. Yeah. You know, the pity party is like three times 

[01:52:22] Mike: not taking responsibility for your wrongdoings. If you look at it like that, it's wild.

[01:52:26] Like you 

[01:52:26] Toliy: said, you, you want to get the past, well, like what, what, what, what you wanna do is you, you really don't wanna talk, talk about what happened. You just kind of wanna get like mm-hmm. Angry. Because you don't want 

[01:52:34] Mike: people to find out that you are actually the well you corporate of the problem you're dealing with.

[01:52:38] Correct. You're the criminal. 

[01:52:39] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Because everything's gonna point to the fact that like, yeah, I'm the fucking criminal. Like, gimme a pass here. You know? That's why we do it. Yeah. It's 

[01:52:46] Mike: learned behavior from 

[01:52:47] Eldar: probably a long time ago. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Know for 

[01:52:50] Mike: sure. 

[01:52:52] Eldar: And obviously Harris, who's been in trouble many times, right?

[01:52:55] He's, he knows this very well. He quote unquote mastered it, you know what I mean? Around the people that fall for these kind of illusions, at these tricks. Mm-hmm. But obviously, we fucking can point this out and see, like, you even said like, yo, he's picking up the phone with a crooked face. You're like, what?

[01:53:07] What is he doing? 

[01:53:08] Mike: Yeah. I didn't understand what's happening. I'm explained. Yeah. He always 

[01:53:11] Toliy: says his thing. 

[01:53:12] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uhhuh. 

[01:53:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:53:13] Eldar: You know, like, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like, come on, dude. It's because he's acting over there. Yeah. Speaking to their, whatever, you know what I'm saying? And then he's gotta, he, he doesn't adjust on time Yes.

[01:53:26] To us. Yeah. But as soon as I start doing that shit back, he's, he starts laughing. He is like, oh, there's a different conversation here, bro. You know what I mean? Don't gotta do this to me. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Don't let me call me if you're gonna do this shit. Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[01:53:38] Speaker 6: Yeah.

[01:53:42] Eldar: Yeah. So, yeah. Did I answer your question? Totally, 

[01:53:46] Toliy: yeah. Yeah. And like some ways, like, I'm, I'm, I was just more wondering of like, um, like

[01:53:56] can you help someone get ownership of something faster? Um, faster? I think it's hard. I think 

[01:54:04] Mike: it's hard though, because like, based on what you guys are saying, based on what I'm hearing, my thought is that, uh, the results of like, just, let's just use Harris's thing about the GI up, right? Mm-hmm. Smoking, stressing, sleeping, sleeping, unhealthy, eating.

[01:54:24] Yeah. That is not a cause. This is an effect. There's a result. Mm-hmm. Right? And the result is not because he eats too much, he's not, it is not, it's not, he's not unhealthy because he eats too much or he vapes too much. It's the reasons he does it in the first place. Yeah. And a lot of the times people are dishonest with their causes of these stressors.

[01:54:44] And then the, in effect, the stress relievers, which are the smoking and the drinking, whatever, you know, and the bad sleep is just a side effect of everything, you know? And, and your violation against the stress that's in your life and not fixing it. So I think it's very hard to get to the person to actually say like, Hey, you know what?

[01:55:07] The reason I'm doing all these things. 'cause I'm piece of shit. This is the way I behave. This is the way I move. This is all the things I do wrong against myself and others. And also takes a lot of time to get to them because most of the time people don't consciously know what exactly is, how they're exactly violating themselves.

[01:55:25] Only through like conversation and like you said, you know, through, through talking about it and letting out your frustrations and sharing. So identifying those things is very hard and it takes, it takes time. Yeah. You know, 

[01:55:40] Eldar: and the interesting case with Harris is that, um, you could clearly see as soon as he, like, he's here for like a month or whatever, straight you, he's one person.

[01:55:48] Mm-hmm. As soon as he goes out mm-hmm. Into the world. Yeah. He becomes a completely different person. 

[01:55:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:55:52] Eldar: So he is very moldable, very impressionable of Right. Of course. 

[01:55:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:55:55] Eldar: Um, he's just a, like I said, he's a pinball. Pinball. Yeah. Right. And like you can see how he's changing 

[01:56:01] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:56:01] Eldar: One way or the other.

[01:56:02] Yeah. He's, he's a product of his, uh, nature. Oh yeah. Environment. Environment. Not that nature. 

[01:56:08] Toliy: Well, like the nature that he's in. 

[01:56:09] Eldar: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Environment, product of his environment Yeah. Is a pinball. He has no autonomy. Yeah. No ownership of stuff, right. Mm-hmm. He just kind of, just bouncing Yeah. From one to another, you know?

[01:56:21] That's why he's the rebutt. Yeah. He always has an excuse. Yeah. But one day, you know, one day through a lot of these repetitions and stuff like that, a lot of these arguments and these fights. Yeah. Right. Uh, he will deduce, I think his soul will deduce the truth of the matter. Mm-hmm. He will start using reasoning.

[01:56:38] Right. Uh, in, in, in ways that's gonna start serving him. He is gonna start taking ownership 

[01:56:43] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:56:43] Eldar: Uh, of some of this stuff, you know? Yeah. But for now, yeah. It's, it's out for, for him at least, it's an uphill battle, 

[01:56:51] Mike: you know? Yeah. I think it also, it happens. What, you know, the delaying of what you're talking about is, um,

[01:57:04] is the, is, is, is a, is a, is a complicated thing. Because when we come in here, right. In here, or in this environment, not just the podcast, but in the office environment, we are one way, we behave a certain way. Right. We try to, try to, you know, be the best versions of ourselves, right. Because we know that people are looking, you know, we don't want to like, uh, we try to be, do the right thing for whatever we, well, no, I, 

[01:57:30] Eldar: I don't try Mike.

[01:57:31] No. Well, I don't, I don't, I like, I don't try, I don't, I'm not doing anything abnormal here. 

[01:57:37] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:57:38] Eldar: Maybe you are. Yeah. Well, I'm trying, speaking for yourself. I'm 

[01:57:40] Mike: trying, because I'm trying to fix my qualities that are bad for you. 

[01:57:43] Eldar: Yeah. For me it becomes a, this is a lot more natural. Yeah. 

[01:57:46] Mike: For you it's a lot more natural because Yeah.

[01:57:47] Yes. I sure. Sorry about that. 

[01:57:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:57:49] Mike: Yeah. I'm trying to be my best and be on point and Yeah. Because I'm trying to undo all my bad qualities. Yeah. And I know that you guys are looking 

[01:57:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:57:57] Mike: And I know that you guys are paying attention, right? Yeah. But 

[01:58:00] Eldar: well, you, you shouldn't be doing that because we paying attention.

[01:58:02] Mm-hmm. I don't think you should be trying to like mask your bad behaviors because we're paying attention. 

[01:58:08] Mike: No, no. I'm not trying to mask them, but I, I also know that's what it sounds 

[01:58:10] Eldar: like. No, no, no. 

[01:58:12] Mike: I'm saying 

[01:58:12] Eldar: that like, I'm trying to do this because you guys are watching, like, no, you should be doing it.

[01:58:17] Not because we're watching, but because it's the right thing to do. Mm-hmm. You're supposed to do the right, the virtue, right? Yeah. If you, after virtue, yeah. You're supposed to do the right thing when no one's looking. 

[01:58:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:58:27] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. That's what it's, that's why when that thing happened with Jared, yeah.

[01:58:32] I wasn't really paying attention, but things were happening. When I started paying attention, I started seeing things. Mm-hmm. And I told you about it. Mm-hmm. Because yo, this is what I heard. 

[01:58:39] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:58:39] Eldar: This is, you know, you're like, yeah, you're right. You know, yada yada. 

[01:58:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:58:42] Eldar: Uh, but I brought you that awareness.

[01:58:44] Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? 

[01:58:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:58:45] Eldar: You shouldn't, like, your conversation, interactions with him should not change for the better because I am now paying attention. Mm-hmm. I don't want to pay attention. Yeah. 

[01:58:54] Mike: No. I'm paying attention now. I hope you are paying attention. Yeah. I'm, yeah. For the, 

[01:58:57] Eldar: for the, for the good enough reasons that you have internally.

[01:59:00] Yeah. Oh yeah. Do not to please eldar or Totally, no, no, 

[01:59:03] Mike: not to please either. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. No, no. Um. No, I, I wasn't even trying to like, go into that. I was just Yeah. Trying to show the disparity. 

[01:59:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:59:13] Mike: Right. Of here, if you come in here Yeah. And you behave a certain way. Yeah. You go outside and you behave a different way.

[01:59:21] There's definitely a disparity. I agree with this. And that's, that's what I was trying to drive to. Not, not, not so much about that. I think there 

[01:59:26] Eldar: is a disparity, but I, I like, I don't think, and I mean, I hope not. You guys are not putting it on this facade. No, no. I'm talking about, 

[01:59:32] Mike: I'm talking about Harris specifically.

[01:59:34] Eldar: No. Here. The stuff that he 

[01:59:35] Mike: does. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The way he behaves it, it's not like it's, we don't let it slide start organic over there. Yeah. He knows he can do what he does. Yeah. Those pity parties, those correct things, because the people that he operates with out there 

[01:59:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:59:53] Mike: They also speak this language.

[01:59:54] They also correct this currency. 

[01:59:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:59:57] Mike: So it's like they have an agreement, this is fine. Yes. But when he co when he's here, it's a completely different environment. Yeah. 

[02:00:03] Eldar: But he tries it too. Nonetheless. He does. Yeah. He tries it here and he sees that it's not working. Mm-hmm. So he has to naturally adjust.

[02:00:08] Yeah. You know, now hopefully it's a adjusting is not putting on a mask to be nice. Yeah. It's actually you want to be nice. To be nice. 

[02:00:15] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that is a very, like what 

[02:00:19] Eldar: he talked about, you know, is it, is it, is it good? Is it good because the Gods love it? Or is it good because it's good?

[02:00:25] Mm-hmm. 

[02:00:27] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like what, what you're saying is like. Like, that's probably gonna happen like a late later. I feel like the person that acts that kind of way, when they see that it's not like, you know, like that, like it's different. For example here, I think their first reaction is to try to find another way to infiltrate.

[02:00:44] To infiltrate. I agree. 

[02:00:46] Eldar: To break the system. 

[02:00:47] Toliy: Yeah. That, that's like next. And then, um, I think it takes a long time to get to a point where like, you do it in that kind of way. 

[02:00:56] Mike: No, but I, what I, what I, what I'm saying is that because it's two completely different things, different worlds. Yes. It all, and let's just say you haven't picked a side which world you want to be in on certain subjects.

[02:01:09] Yeah. Maybe certain you have, right? Yeah. Yeah. So you didn't the subject, you go and you sit outside mm-hmm. And you come back here. Yeah. Right. It's a very, it delays the process because you violating yourself out there. 

[02:01:21] Toliy: No, but he's, he's 

[02:01:22] Eldar: doing the same thing here. Mike is saying he is changing a little bit.

[02:01:26] He's changing, he's putting on the mask a little bit. Yeah. He's adapting or adopting our things in order to kind of not be in trouble with us. It's not just him, but I'm just saying in 

[02:01:34] Mike: general, right? Mm-hmm. We have different relationships, like trying to say it in a way where it's like, like, um, to make sense, but it's two different worlds regardless.

[02:01:47] Right? 

[02:01:48] Toliy: Yeah. But, but, but I still think that he's, he is acting the same way here. That he, like, he's acting the same way there, that he acts here. 

[02:01:54] Mike: I don't think it's exactly the same. I think certain areas he's different here, uh, may better obviously, you know, small changes for sure. But, but, but most of the time that's spent out there is a violation.

[02:02:06] But, but like in what, what Well, no, totally. 

[02:02:08] Eldar: We do influence him in such a way where we constantly remind him of trying to do better. Right. Like, be nice, for example. Be polite. Yes. But I'm saying that, that, 

[02:02:15] Toliy: that, but he's not that person. Yes. Like he mm-hmm. If you don't give him the reminders. Correct. He he'll shit everywhere.

[02:02:21] He's acting how he's acting. Correct. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. He's the same person, just like here. He has more like a,

[02:02:31] like we're, we're we, we, we just don't stand for particular things. Yeah. And when he feels that he temporarily aligns, adjusts, uh, temporarily. Yeah. But Mike is saying that over there, he has a free reign and he's Right. 

[02:02:44] Mike: Well, but the thing is, we're regardless of him understanding what's happening here or not Yeah.

[02:02:49] Or acting or not, it's still imprinting on him. Yeah. The more he spends here, he's gonna change. But every time you step out of the thing, you get influenced by that. Yeah. So it's a constant thing. The person's being pulled and pushed Yeah. From side to side. And this is not a conscious thing that's happening to him.

[02:03:08] He's getting pin balled. For now. For now, right? Yes. And that is, that is a huge factor of stress, you know, and. Possibly like, like the, like a hindrance of your own growth. And I'm saying this, uh, because also from my own experience, right? A lot of times I would hang out here right. With you guys, you know, and I'm a certain way, but then I would also, like you older knows I would go with Oleg and I would also be a completely different person.

[02:03:39] Run amuck. Yeah. That's the, that's what I'm trying to say. 

[02:03:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:03:42] Mike: Is that then when you go outside, you 

[02:03:44] Eldar: act differently. Well, it, yes. It's because you never chose a side or you never had like a stable character. Yes, yes. You know what I mean? And until you find out who you actually are, who you actually want be, then you take the stance of how keep that character all across the board.

[02:03:59] Yeah. But I think, but I know that hard sometimes we do act out there for sure. Yes. And for, and I think it's a 

[02:04:03] Mike: hard decision and people are not like saying they don't maybe understand like, Hey, I have to pick a side. You know, especially in the early stages, you're not going out there saying, oh, I have to pick a side who I want to be.

[02:04:16] You know, it's more organic because you've lived one life for your whole life and then now you're trying to incorporate this new thing, trying to change your ways, be a different person. But that side is gravity. You have a lot more time with gravity than you have with something implementing something new.

[02:04:33] So the more you come outta here, right, where you're like being, uh. Looking at yourself. People are looking at you, they see what you're doing. There's more analytic stuff and more like, you know, hyper awareness. The, then you go out, it takes him away Also too, because like, you know, if we go on vacation for two weeks or a month and he's just hanging out with crunchy and like, you know, those other greens and purples and all his friends, he's gonna come back.

[02:05:00] We're gonna come back. He's gonna be like a wilder beast again. You know? Yeah, yeah. Because he's not gonna have the influence. Mm-hmm. Especially new. Not yet. Yes. Especially because he is new. Yeah. 

[02:05:07] Eldar: No, I agree with that. I agree with that. No, for sure. Until he finds out who he actually is. Yeah. Chooses the side, like you said.

[02:05:14] But, 

[02:05:14] Mike: but I think nobody's, like, I don't think I ever un for like a long time, I never came to the point like, oh, I have to pick a side here. Yeah. You know, I ne I'm not, it took me a long time to say like, oh yeah, this is the life I'd like to live. I don't want to like get Seesaw back and forth between these two worlds.

[02:05:30] Yeah. But, but also when 

[02:05:31] Eldar: you're starting to like yourself for who you are actually as you discover yourself as a thinker, Uhhuh. Right. I'm not sure if you have a choice in the matter. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you just say, you know what, I gotta pick a side here. Do I go steal? Or do I think No. Yeah, for sure.

[02:05:46] You know what I say? For sure. I think that the, the, um, the equation becomes very transparent and very easy to solve is to say like, no, I like myself here. Right. Like, all the things that we talked about when it comes to you being in relationships with girls mm-hmm. And who you used to be and how you used to act like.

[02:06:00] Try to apply this person to that person, like mm-hmm. It just won't work. Yeah. That person and this person, it's like oil and water. Yeah. Right. Like, it's impossible for you to go out there now and try to put on the mask and be happy. Like, I don't see that's happening. 

[02:06:14] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:06:14] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, you know.

[02:06:16] Yeah. So, relationship, like I said, relationship, um, with a girl, such an intimate thing. It's gonna be your ultimate test. 

[02:06:24] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:06:25] Eldar: Yeah. All that character. 

[02:06:26] Mike: Yeah, for sure. You know what I 

[02:06:26] Eldar: mean? Of finally, like you said, quote unquote choosing a side. Mm-hmm. Because in the, in the proper good, healthy relationship, there will be side that you have to stand on.

[02:06:36] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:06:36] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[02:06:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:06:38] Eldar: It's, it's, it's gonna be inevitable. 

[02:06:40] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:06:40] Eldar: You know, and it's gonna yield either good or it's either gonna yield bad. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's probably gonna yield all good. Yeah. Even if it's bad. Yeah. For sure. But for the person in that moment, it's probably gonna feel bad.

[02:06:52] Mike: Yeah. It's probably gonna feel bad. Yeah. 

[02:06:54] Speaker 6: But 

[02:06:55] Eldar: probably deserving. 

[02:06:56] Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.

[02:07:00] So, so what do we have 

[02:07:03] Eldar: guys? Any more thoughts? Totally. You always like, yo, 

[02:07:08] Toliy: I didn't get enough. No. Did you get it all out? No. No. I mean, I understand what like, I mean, you know. 

[02:07:15] Eldar: I think these journeys are cool. You know what I mean? The thing is, a lot of times as Dennis puts them, it's a, there's a pinata. You know what I mean?

[02:07:23] Mm-hmm. And we're hitting this pinata, you know? Uh, but the truth of the matter is, we, this pinata is sleeping sleepwalking right now, but we're trying to wake it up, and I think when the person wakes up, it's gonna be a person who's gonna, we wanna have around more and more who's gonna be more pleasant, 

[02:07:38] Toliy: but it's also the person who's a pinata.

[02:07:40] Their actions raise their hand to be that. Oh yeah. What do you mean? Up, up until, yeah. It's not necessary for them. For like up Yeah. Up until they demand respect and then they're no longer a pinata. Correct. That kind of thing. Correct. Like, you can't like talk shit and not be willing to play one-on-one.

[02:07:57] Yeah. You know? Yeah, that's right. You know? That's right. 

[02:07:59] Eldar: Yeah. So, with time, I think the person will wake up and the person will have conscious ability to distinguish between what's right and wrong. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And will choose in accordance to his own autonomy. 

[02:08:12] Yeah. 

[02:08:12] You know? And that's gonna be beautiful, I think.

[02:08:14] You know what I mean? 

[02:08:15] Speaker 6: So, mm-hmm. Yeah.

[02:08:20] But that'll take time. Mm-hmm. I mean, 

[02:08:22] Eldar: good things do take time. I mean like, shit, what are we doing here? You know? 

[02:08:25] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:08:26] Eldar: In the grand scheme of things, 

[02:08:29] Speaker 6: you know, God's work.

[02:08:35] All right. Final thoughts 

[02:08:37] Eldar: on comparison on moving the immovable objects mm-hmm. Of transferring ownership. Finally, autonomy. Uh, being accountable for yourself and operating out of the least amount of force when it comes to your own self. Mm-hmm. Through 

[02:08:56] Speaker 6: self-Love

[02:09:00] Eldar: it. All these things are tied together. What are your final thoughts, guys? Mike? Yeah, if you Totally, go ahead. Go ahead. 

[02:09:08] Mike: T 

[02:09:09] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like the more, like the more grandiose aspirations like you have in comparison to who you actually are and what you're actually capable of, um, um, like a larger dose of force will always happen to you.

[02:09:29] Speaker 6: Agreed. You know, what, what do you mean by a large dose of force for the people that don't understand what you said? Like

[02:09:39] more pain, 

[02:09:41] Toliy: more, more pain. Like in, in, in different ways, right? Like the person that's like an amateur at something, for example. But you know, like trying to compare to like an expert, for example. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, um, or like the per Yeah. Like the person who's just starting and has goals to, um, become a master in like a very short amount of time, for example.

[02:10:07] Speaker 6: Yeah. 

[02:10:08] Toliy: Right. 

[02:10:08] Speaker 6: Like, um.

[02:10:15] If, 

[02:10:16] Toliy: if that was even possible. It, it, it basically like, the, the formula there makes sense because like of them get, having to have the requirement of the most amount of force, right? 

[02:10:27] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:10:27] Toliy: Like, it's almost like, like, you know, like, like UFC fighters or fighters that cut weight, right? Like you're trying to lose like 20 pounds in seven days mm-hmm.

[02:10:38] For, for example, right. Or 25 pounds or so in seven days. Mm-hmm. Right? Like to do that. Okay. Like, this is what you want to do. It's gonna require a lot of force, right? Yeah. You're not gonna just be like, Hey, like, you know what, I'm gonna do a little bit here and there and it's whatever. Mm-hmm. Well then like, then you can't be the one that's trying to lose this kind of weight in this kind of timeframe.

[02:10:57] That's right. So it's almost like the, the, the, the, the more grandiose your desires and goals are and the sm the, like, the, the smaller your timeline is in comparison to that co. Like, the more you're gonna have to get hit over the head to accomplish it. 

[02:11:16] Eldar: Correct. 

[02:11:16] Toliy: And then it's up to you whether like that's the type of life you wanna live Yeah.

[02:11:20] Or not. Yeah. Right. It's almost like, yeah. Like the person who's like super poor, they want to get super rich in a fast time. Okay. Like, you might have to work 18 hours a day. 

[02:11:29] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:11:30] Toliy: You prepared to do that. Yes. Okay. Let's start. Mm-hmm. And you, you, you might get it for, for example, right? Yeah. At what 

[02:11:35] Eldar: cost, but 

[02:11:36] Toliy: if you're not, yeah.

[02:11:37] Then. You're gonna, you're gonna get hit by, by like the stick of life, right? Yeah. Of like saying that like, hey, like you're really not trying to get this life to get rich like quick. Like, it's not like get humble. Yeah. You know? Yeah. 

[02:11:52] Eldar: You know, so, yeah. Alright. Yeah, no, you're right. I agree with you Mike. Um, go ahead.

[02:11:59] Yeah. I mean, based on everything we talked about comparison, uh, at all leading to the reason why we compare in the first place, I think is because we have the wrong perception of reality and the nature of things, uh, and how things are. And in order to stop comparing ourselves right, or comp start comparing ourselves more fairly, like I said, you have to be a little bit smarter when it comes to evaluating what's actually going on.

[02:12:30] If you can't do that, you're gonna fall into these traps. And I think that, uh, comparison, comparing yourself to others and feeling the negative effects from it is, is, is life's or God's plan, a humility plan, fast track to humility almost, where it's gonna humble your ass. 

[02:12:49] Yeah. 

[02:12:51] You know, like totally said, either you put up or you shut up, you know?

[02:12:54] Yeah. 

[02:12:55] So, um, yeah. It's super necessary. 

[02:12:58] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:12:59] Eldar: You know, uh, it plays its role. It's gonna continue to play its role whether you like it or not. 

[02:13:03] Toliy: Yeah. There there's no choice in the matter. There's no choice in the matter. Yeah. You can't have, if, 

[02:13:07] Eldar: if you fucked around and you started believing. Right. All the nonsense out there that's being marketed to you from an early age.

[02:13:15] Right. Voluntarily or not involuntarily, you know, um, you're gonna make certain conclusions that are incorrect. And, and you 

[02:13:25] Toliy: know what? Um, I I, I just thought about it. It's a crazy thing in like the whole community of like, just like culture out there, right. Where like they, like they preach to you to like dream big for example, right.

[02:13:41] And have extremely large loft, lofty goals, right? Yeah. They don't like preach like a moderate, consistent, like, you know, small step at a time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that. They're, they're that, right? And then they have this whole thing in between of like trying to throw these pity parties for you in between where they don't, where you don't accomplish, like what they, they marketed to you in the beginning that you should be going after.

[02:14:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:14:04] Toliy: So I feel like it's like a hypocrisy type of like, like a like scenario where like they're, they're, they're almost breeding this like, like instead of actually like, like they're enabling you to, to have huge, lofty goals. Right. But then they're like creating these, like, people that want these pity parties in between when they don't accomplish them, right?

[02:14:28] Like. 

[02:14:30] Eldar: And I think that by design, I think these, uh, these ignorances or these, this materialistic world out there, right? Um, is designed in such a way by design to, you know, to maybe confuse us a little bit, you know? Yeah. And then we instill all these desires into it. We buy into it, and we develop these personalities, which are very generic.

[02:14:53] Um, and we suffer. 

[02:14:56] Speaker 6: Yeah. 

[02:14:57] Eldar: So it's almost like, it's almost points to that. Like, if so many people are under this spell, like everyone's like sinners, you know, like, what, what are we, what, what is everyone paying for? You know? That's like my question after that. Uh, but yeah. So, but if you don't want to e experience comparing yourself to others, if you do, do it, uh, hurry the fuck up and trying to figure out how things work and why are, you know, the world is the way it is, the faster you find out the way the the world is, the faster you're gonna stop making conclusions about the world.

[02:15:28] And you're gonna keep an open mindset, which means that you're gonna be humble enough to say, okay, I see that this guy is, uh, has this, this and a third, but I'm not gonna make any conclusions about it because I don't know all the variables here, and therefore I'm not gonna make any conclusions about him or myself, and therefore you're gonna, uh, prevent any type of comparison.

[02:15:51] That's my, uh, final thought,

[02:15:57] Mike. I got nothing. I got nothing. No. All right, fine. 

[02:16:01] Toliy: That's good. Anyway, whoever listen to that and says like the, and, and, and like thinks that they can do to do that. Good luck you. All right. Good luck guys. Yeah.