180. Death

How can we develop a healthier relationship with death?

In this profound episode, hosts Mike, Toliy, and Eldar dive deep into the taboo topic of death, exploring its role as a reminder of life's impermanence. Drawing from Buddhist principles, personal anecdotes about aging parents, lost friends, and regrets, they discuss how attachments and unexamined lives lead to fear of the end. The conversation challenges listeners to live authentically, respect the natural process of change, and prepare gracefully for mortality, turning the "boogeyman" of death into a catalyst for a meaningful existence.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction: Respecting Life and Death
• 4:36 Aging and the Process of Life
• 14:23 Philosophical Reflections on Death
• 24:21 The Role of Philosophy in Accepting Death
• 42:33 Questioning Divine Intervention
• 43:16 Logical vs. Emotional Perceptions
• 1:04:05 Philosophical Reflections on Death
• 1:25:32 Living Life to the Fullest

Transcript

[00:00:00] Mike: On this week's episode, if you respect life, then you respect death. If you don't respect life, you're not gonna respect death because again, it's like you never take ownership or a trajectory of your life. How would you ever feel justified when death is knocking on your door? 

[00:00:13] Toliy: The cliche like quote, like live every day as if it's your last.

[00:00:16] Like it's pretty like difficult. If everybody had a clock on their wrist that said exactly when they're gonna die, people would probably do things differently. Right? 

[00:00:23] Eldar: I'm not sure. Actually learn to progress so that you can enjoy this thing called life. 

[00:00:28] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:00:28] Eldar: Otherwise, yeah, like there's gonna be the boogeyman.

[00:00:31] Mm-hmm. It's gonna be all the sicknesses things and ignorances and attachments desires.

[00:00:43] All right guys, this week's topic is the boogeyman itself. Death. Totally. You okay? Yeah. Okay. You still with us? Yeah. So, um, not necessarily death, I would say probably, um, our relationship to it, the way we respond to it, the way we, uh, associate ourselves with it, uh, our perception of it. Why do we have maybe a negative connotation about it?

[00:01:15] You know, how does it affect us as humans? Right. And, um, is there any good about it? You know, what, what is the truth of the matter? Right. Um, I think the general topic is probably gonna revolve around impermanence. Mm. Right. Okay. That, like Buddhists usually say, right? Nothing's permanent. Mm-hmm. Right.

[00:01:36] Nothing, literally, you know, just like the thoughts in your head. Right? Right. Now you have in this thought, next second, you have another thought. The weather, right? Today's raining tomorrow, sunshine, you know, the stock market, today's up, tomorrow's down. 

[00:01:52] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:52] Eldar: Nothing's really permanent, you know, based on all of our observations, right.

[00:01:56] Including ourselves, you know, that people come, people go, you know, and obviously the biggest highlighter of impermanence, right? For all these humans is death and dying, right? 

[00:02:10] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:12] Eldar: And a lot of the times our relationship with it is obviously not, I would say not a healthy one. Right? Even though we know that one day it's inevitable for all of us.

[00:02:22] Right. We don't know when obviously we don't have a crystal ball, but it's coming, you know, for some much earlier, for some much later, 

[00:02:31] Mike: whatever. Um, but the general consensus is what death is bad. Yeah. Right. 

[00:02:40] Eldar: Um. And I think that a lot of times when we are affected by these events, be it our pet, my grandma, mom, dad, whoever.

[00:02:53] Right. Um, we have very specific feelings. Um, and we talked about how some people react to them. You know, how do you react to it? How do you react to it? Yeah. What's the proper way of dealing with it? Right. Coping with it. Um, I don't know, what are other things people do? Mourn others. Right. Stuff like that.

[00:03:15] But generally speaking, right. I think that we have a very specific relationship when it comes to it, and I think everyone thinks about it, you know, but do majority have it right? I'm not sure. So let's talk about it. Mm-hmm. Mike? Yeah. You obviously know right now our friend Harris, you know? Yes. Uh, is going through something.

[00:03:33] His mom is very ill, you know, uh, and obviously the one thing is on his mind, probably the right now dominates his mind. His mom dying. Mm-hmm. You know, who's very sickly and of age. Mm-hmm. You know, so as you can see, he's completely consumed by it. But Harris is also a human who sometimes, like a pinball goes one way or another.

[00:04:00] One way and another. Mm-hmm. You know, a ball of emotions, you know? Mm. We obviously observe these things. Mm-hmm. You know, and we're trying to make sense of it too. Right. Because we're his friends and we're trying to be supportive and stuff like that. Maybe cheer him up, maybe lighten up the situation, but sometimes it's hard, all because there's big boogeyman that's looming.

[00:04:23] Mm. Right. Mm-hmm. Death, right? Yeah. Well, yeah, I think, 

[00:04:28] Mike: um, I think it's, it's, um. Typically the process. Mm-hmm. It's, it's interesting because the process typically is a person, when you are young, you full of energy, you do a bunch of shit, you can do a bunch of shit. You know, you have like unlimited energy, unlimited stamina typically.

[00:04:47] Right. Not everybody, but let's just say, yeah. You know, this is how the picture's supposed to be. Mm-hmm. You know, for, for most people. And as you get older you're not able to do certain things, you know? Mm-hmm. Like this thing about prime. Right. You know, people talking about their prime. 

[00:05:00] Yeah. 

[00:05:01] So, um, that made me think of the sequence, right?

[00:05:07] Yeah. Of like events of life, how life is naturally like the law of life. Yeah. You're born, you live, as you age, you change. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. You are not as fast, you're not as sharp, you're not as, I don't know all the things how you used to be. Yeah. You're not like that, you change and that's, that's a change, you know?

[00:05:29] Yeah. And permanence. And permanence. Yeah. And I think that it's all kind of like leading up to whatever the, whatever it is, what happens when you, when you die. Yeah. You know? But I think it's slow, it's a slow kind of process of getting to that point. And most of the people, I think my, I'm not, you know, it's not a fact, but most of the people I would think they're not typically comfortable with that process.

[00:05:58] Even the aging process. Right. 

[00:06:00] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. I think it starts with the aging process, probably. Yes. Yeah. 

[00:06:04] Mike: Mm-hmm. And, um, and I wonder, and I think about it like, uh, now that I say so, said that, that people aren't comfortable with the process. I think there's a lot of things here that are like involved in it, and.

[00:06:23] If you, if you lived a good life and you lived like, um, you kind of know what to expect, which is, I guess, hard to say, but hard to know right. In the moment. Mm-hmm. But would you be upset if you had, like, if you knew this is the process, right? If you respected the process. Right. If you respect, if you kind of, 

[00:06:43] Eldar: you know, know that this is happening, this is part of life.

[00:06:46] Yeah. Right. And I think Buddhist challenges that Yeah. Uh, challenge us, uh, in that way where it's like, look, this is part of life. 

[00:06:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:54] Eldar: And it's just a progression of that. Yeah. You know, it's a continuation of that which is not, should not be judged. Yeah. As being bad is just what is Yeah. But a lot of times be we judge it because along the way mm-hmm.

[00:07:09] We form certain attachments. Right. We used to be young. 

[00:07:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:07:13] Eldar: And play basketball and competitive. 

[00:07:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:07:16] Eldar: And we used to win and we've attached ourselves to a very specific feeling. 

[00:07:20] Mike: Mm-hmm. Right. Let's just 

[00:07:21] Eldar: say that. 

[00:07:22] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:07:22] Eldar: You know, and now though, maybe our bodies are not responding the same way we, we used to respond.

[00:07:27] Mm-hmm. Right. We start feeling a certain type of way about it. 

[00:07:29] Mike: Yeah. And not, and not, it's, it's not graceful. It's not graceful at all. I agree. You know, we're throwing like a fit. Maybe you can, A lot of times, yeah. A lot of times people throw a fit. Like, oh, I could do this, this, be able do this. But Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:41] It's not respecting the 

[00:07:44] Eldar: inevitable. 

[00:07:45] Mike: Yeah. But it's also a, and like, I guess it's maybe tied to it, I don't know. But part of it that made me think a lot of times, and this question probably gets raised like, you know, like you've probably seen it on social media and stuff, like, oh yeah, this person on their deathbed, they said, damn, I regret all these things I didn't do.

[00:08:03] Yeah. 

[00:08:03] And I think. If you lived your life and you get to a age where you start to feel older, but you didn't accomplish the things that you might have wanted to do. Mm. That's gonna definitely haunt you too. And you might not be like, ready to let go. Like, uh, I see, like your mom, she's a crazy buzzer. Yeah.

[00:08:21] Her age. She buzzes more than all of us. 

[00:08:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:23] Mike: And we're, you know, significantly 

[00:08:24] Eldar: younger. It's almost like she has so many regrets probably in her head. That's what, that's what I, and now she's holding on to everything that she could. Yeah. Right. And just going crazy. Yeah. Right. In order to just to like make time.

[00:08:35] Mike: Yeah. Well, to do the things that she thinks that she wants to do or she Yeah. You know, or maybe didn't get to do the way she wanted to plan them. Yeah. But those things usually, I, I think they usually happen because you don't calculate, you just like act, 

[00:08:52] you know? Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:53] And then you don't, the consequences of your actions, you don't think about them and you just kind of like, you just get hammered by life.

[00:09:02] Yeah. Then you are like, damn. But you don't really change What'd you do? 

[00:09:07] Yeah. 

[00:09:07] Yeah. You don't really change, but you don't, you're not really happy. Yeah. 'cause your whole life you never had like maybe peace or that sense of like, you know, like Yeah. If we like stop playing basketball like today and if we have good reasons for it, I'll be like, okay, if this is the right reason and like I won't feel a regret like I do, do I wanna play more?

[00:09:27] Yeah. I wanna play, keep playing. Sure. Yeah. But I'm not gonna feel like, oh, I didn't get enough of it, or like mm-hmm. I will respect like, hey, that's it. Like if this is what my body's telling me. Mm-hmm. Or whatever is the logical thing to do. Yeah. You know, but I don't feel like that at all. But if that was the case, I would, you know, accept it.

[00:09:47] Accept it. Yeah. Accept it gracefully. I'm not sure if that applies to all things. Mm-hmm. I definitely don't think so, but I think some things do. Mm-hmm. But I think that's probably important goal of, to be able to change with the. With the times. With the times and the way that things naturally have a mm-hmm.

[00:10:04] Progression of changing. And I think change death is, again, it's another change. 

[00:10:08] Eldar: Yeah. I agree with that. And I think that, you know, maybe comparing basketball to a loved one passing Yeah. For example. Right. It's a little bit different. Yeah. 

[00:10:17] Mike: Of course. Obviously, 

[00:10:18] Eldar: you know what I mean? But nonetheless, right.

[00:10:20] Basketball can be your passion, 

[00:10:22] Mike: but it's a death of an identity. Right. That you carry for 40 years. Right. That's right. That's right. So yeah. It's obviously not somebody's life, but yeah. Ultimately as we age, certain identities do die out. Right. That's right. As we, when we're young, we do young and stupid shit.

[00:10:35] Yeah. And people a lot of times reminisce on, when I was young, I used to fucking do this, this and that. Yeah. Yeah. And be wild, but mm-hmm. That identity's gone. Yeah. You know, so, so it's a 

[00:10:43] Eldar: form of death. 

[00:10:44] Mike: It's a form of death. Yeah. 

[00:10:45] Eldar: Identity, death. And slowly you kind of shed away some of these identities. Yeah.

[00:10:49] Right. And maybe now that you said about the way you put it, about identities, maybe, uh, some of the things that obviously no longer serve you Right. Maybe they are. Um, you know, like if you, if you know old and you're, you know, brittle and you're not supposed to play basketball or do other things, getting yourself into letting go of that identity is actually good for you.

[00:11:10] You know what I mean? Where you could slowly like, you know what, it's okay. I'm coming to terms with this, I'm coming with the terms with that. 

[00:11:15] Mike: Mm-hmm. And 

[00:11:16] Eldar: you let go. And I think that maybe to a degree it's a, a sort of a cleansing process for your soul to be able to then get ready for the ultimate cleansing mm-hmm.

[00:11:26] Or the ultimate, uh, balance as Warren said. Yeah. Balance, which is death. Yeah. Sick. You know what I mean? Yeah. Where you just kind of like, okay, cool. I'm cool, I'm cool with that. Like it's, that's part of the gig. 

[00:11:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:11:39] Eldar: You know what I mean? But obviously that's not the case for the general public. 

[00:11:43] Mike: No. 

[00:11:43] Eldar: Right. Um, like I said, a lot of people don't know how to deal with it.

[00:11:47] A lot of people don't know how to react, but know how to mourn maybe. Right. Move on. Mm-hmm. Right. And maybe be themselves. Ultimately Right. They, a lot of people jump into, uh, dive into depression, maybe even. Yeah. You know? Um, is it all because of the fact that some individuals versus others maybe hold such strong attachments to these identities and people and all other things that are very mortal and not permanent 

[00:12:18] Mike: y Yeah.

[00:12:19] I mean, I do think, uh, attachment is a huge part of it. Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:23] Eldar: Like relationships. Let's talk about relationships. Right. Yeah. That's, that's probably the closest one to dying, right? Like I, you know, I had a girlfriend. 

[00:12:29] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:29] Eldar: It was a toxic relationship. And then like, if anybody had been through a relationship, heartbreak, right?

[00:12:35] Mm-hmm. When they were together, they fell in love and everything was jolly up until it wasn't right. And then you go through the breakup 

[00:12:41] Mike: mm-hmm. And 

[00:12:41] Eldar: the breakup fucking hurts. 

[00:12:43] Mike: Yeah. You know what 

[00:12:43] Eldar: I mean? It hurts almost like, I would say, like somebody's dead. Yeah. You know, they're no longer in your life.

[00:12:48] You're like, oh shit. There was a person. A very specific person that was acting towards me a very specific way. And now, now there, now there isn't one, or friendships, you know, I mean, we have plenty of examples, right? Mm-hmm. Where, you know, even a old friend who said, Hey, you ready to put this away? Uh, 15 years or whatever, whatever.

[00:13:08] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:09] Eldar: Yeah. It's almost feels like it's like death, you know? Because a person no longer at least exists in your realm. Right. Or you were theirs. So you experience that through life. You know what I mean? 

[00:13:22] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:24] Eldar: So I think it's a very natural kind of almost, uh, preparation, right? A prerequisite before you face the ultimate ones where first, your grandparents go away, right?

[00:13:38] I mean, my parents, my grandparents, most, most of them are dead except one. Mm-hmm. You know, totally still has a grandparent. Mm-hmm. You know, you have. Nobody. No. Nobody anymore. No. Your grandma just passed away. Just passed. Yeah. Yeah. They're our parents. Mm-hmm. Right. And then obviously us, they're our friends and us.

[00:13:55] Yeah. You know what I mean? Kind of like the, the trickle down effect of it all. Mm-hmm. You know, so it's like almost a preparation to the ultimate finale, which is the passing. Mm-hmm. You know, but I think as much as it is important to what we always do here during a podcast or, you know, throughout life or doing philosophy and stuff like that, trying to figure these things out, how to live in accordance to the truth and, and live a good, happy life and have fun with the shit.

[00:14:23] I think that the preparation for dying in death is as all, is as important as, as living. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Um, at least some figures in history, not maybe distant or not so distant history showed that some people lived. In such a way where they stand, stood on their principles and maybe died as a martyr or as someone who believed in something and were able to stand on what they believed in, and were okay with passing away with that.

[00:14:59] Right. I don't know. It's interesting, the way you said it, it 

[00:15:01] Mike: made me almost think like, because they, when they passed away, they were okay with dying. Right? Yeah. So what, what, uh, what, what kind of mentality do you have to have, or what kind of reason do you have to have in order to be like that? Because I don't think most people will say like, yeah, I'm okay with dying.

[00:15:21] Like, 

[00:15:21] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:15:21] Mike: You 

[00:15:21] know, 

[00:15:23] Eldar: so, well, I think there's different ways that you can probably get there, right? Like, I mean, for example, people that go to war soldiers, right. That are fighting for their country. Mm-hmm. For example, 

[00:15:34] Mike: right. 

[00:15:37] Eldar: They have their reasons, right. They're like, that's it. Like I'm fighting for freedom here.

[00:15:40] You know, I'm gonna go over there and kill terrorists or whoever, you know, I'm okay with dying. Like that's one way to go. Yeah. Right. But it's still kind of an ideology, right? Yeah. There's some people who are, you know, I don't know, gang banging in Iraq, you know, who also kind of standing on their own principle, right?

[00:15:57] Where like they're willing to say, you know what, if you kill, kill one of my gang members, I'm gonna come and kill yours. And kind of, that's the process where it's like, I'm okay with that too. 

[00:16:06] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:07] Eldar: You know? And then there's the, I don't know, people that spoke out Martin Luther King, right? Right. I don't know.

[00:16:13] Lincoln Socrates, Jesus. Right. Gandhi, some of those figures where they were like, okay, they probably could have predicted that the things that they were saying probably are JFK. You know, like they would lead them potentially be a martyr. You and you think they they knew that, right? I think some definitely did.

[00:16:32] Yeah. I think some definitely did. 

[00:16:33] Mike: Which I think is Yeah. Is maybe like, I 

[00:16:36] Eldar: mean, Socrates volun volunteered to die. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:16:38] Mike: I think that's a very interesting case. Yeah. Almost. Yeah. Because like the, like the, you know, chi Iraq stuff or people go to war 

[00:16:44] Yeah. 

[00:16:45] You are not coming in there and like, yo, I'm gonna die here coming in.

[00:16:48] Like, I hope I don't die. Uh, I think I'll be okay. Like, I think maybe some have a pr more 

[00:16:53] Eldar: realistic expectation, I would think. Yeah. I don't think these people that go to war think that like they just a hundred percent gonna come out of it. 

[00:16:59] Mike: Yeah. You know, I just, yeah. They probably have the, the thoughts of both ways.

[00:17:02] Yeah. Right. They could live, they could not 

[00:17:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:17:04] Mike: Get lucky. But I think, uh, optimism, like, you know, I feel like more people will be optimistic about it versus where so is like, yo, this is a hundred percent what's gonna happen and I'm okay. Yeah. He chose it. It's like, it's different. He made a choice. Yeah.

[00:17:18] Versus those tho the, the people who you talk saying they also made a choice, but I think. They had a way out that not necessarily this is gonna be the result. Like definitively, definitively, you know? Okay. I mean, obviously Sock also could have, somebody could have bailed him out or Yeah. That's what happened.

[00:17:32] Something could have happened, you know? Mm-hmm. And he said no, but even then, something could have changed, you know? But Yeah, for sure. So maybe he had, I don't know if he had like this thing of like, oh, hope that's, something's gonna change. I think he wanted, he realized the importance of, of, of this Yeah.

[00:17:48] What he had to do. 

[00:17:48] Eldar: Yeah. I think so. In Socrates' case, he didn't wanna live like a coward. 

[00:17:53] Mike: Yeah. Right. 

[00:17:53] Eldar: He didn't want to be, uh, in exile. Mm-hmm. Right. Running away from where he lived. Right. That's is was his argument. But look, look at some people's, um, examples of DNR, for example. Mm-hmm. Or do not resuscitate, right?

[00:18:08] Yeah. If something happens to me, I'm not trying to live, like, for example, as a handicap person. Or as a vegetable. Mm-hmm. Just let me go. If I can't do it on my own kind of thing, just don't resuscitate my ass. Yeah. You know, so some people have that. 

[00:18:22] Mike: That's true. 

[00:18:23] Eldar: Yeah. You know, but they're okay with the process of like, okay, this is, this is my time to go, and if it is, don't, don't, don't interfere.

[00:18:29] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:32] Eldar: And I think that's also standing on principle. Yeah. Yeah. And accepting, I think things for what they are, and I think it's a good, good, strong stance. 

[00:18:39] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:18:40] Eldar: You know, but obviously what's happening with our friend, for example, right. You might want, you might be okay with dying and passing on, but then you have all these people around you, they're gonna react a very specific way.

[00:18:52] Yeah. From you going or for you choosing to go. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. How do you deal with that? That's also an interesting angle of it 

[00:18:58] Mike: as well, you know? Yeah. 

[00:19:02] Yeah. To, yeah. What do you got? 

[00:19:09] Toliy: Um, just like on the, uh, like all, all. 

[00:19:13] Eldar: Yeah, I mean, what, what do you, what do you think, yeah. About how, you know, the whole notion of death, dying, passing away, and people reacting a certain specific way or, you know, just having this outlook.

[00:19:28] Toliy: Yeah, I mean, I think overall it's a, uh, inevitable that you can't really, um, control like that. You can probably like maybe do things to slow it down as best you can, but you also can't account for like, you know, like, I don't know, getting hit by a bus or something. Accidents, you know, accidents or like, you know.

[00:19:49] Yeah. Uh, that's definitely on the harder side. Um, but yeah, I think it's difficult because like you grow attachments to like how your life is with particular people, like relationships you have with particular people. Um, the memories you have with particular people like. How those people make you feel, how you make those people people feel.

[00:20:16] Yeah. Um, maybe like combined with like future plans to have them experience particular things with you, you know, um, all, all that combined and when that person is now no longer there, then like you kind of cut, like that relationship is now cut and, um, it's tough to deal with I think because like, you start to think about all that and then you start to realize all that.

[00:20:42] And I think in general, most people probably, um, they live regretful like lives, you know? Hmm. Like, they don't talk to, to people like, uh, correctly, right? They, they don't treat people well. Um, they don't like conduct themselves a certain way. Um, and they kind of like, almost like take. Their relationships with people and for granted, yeah, for, for granted.

[00:21:14] You know? Yeah. They, they, they, they kind of almost operate like, you know, like, this is forever and, you know, there's no like, real urgency or like, you know, like your, your actions don't really, like, matter, matter in like a way, you know? And, um, when those types of realities hit, then it becomes really painful because now, like they're more like permanent like fixtures now, and you, and you can't stretch that kind of like, you know, way of acting anymore.

[00:21:51] And like, then you start thinking, oh, I should have changed. I should have done, you know, this or that, I should have, you know, this or that. So, 

[00:21:58] Mike: yeah. 

[00:21:58] Toliy: Um, yeah. But, but, but I think overall, like, you know, aside from like the regret and stuff like that. Like, I think we maybe underestimate the, the impact that certain people have, like, in our lives.

[00:22:12] Mike: Hmm. 

[00:22:12] Toliy: And like, how long? Like, that we've like, almost like relied for them to be there as like a, um, like, like a particular type, type of person in our life. So when they're not there, then it's just like, it, it, it, it like leaves, leaves a void almost, you know? 

[00:22:35] Mike: And, uh,

[00:22:40] I think that that's probably the hard part about it. Hmm. 

[00:22:45] Toliy: But it's also tough to like, you know, like the cliche, like quote, like, live every day as if it's your last, like, it's like, it's pretty like difficult to, to live by because like, um, like if everybody had a clock on their wrist that said exactly when they're gonna die.

[00:23:05] People would probably do things differently, right? Like and how they like Yeah. Well, uh, the thing is, or choices they make, 

[00:23:12] Eldar: I'm not sure actually. I'm actually not sure. 

[00:23:14] Mike: Hmm. 

[00:23:15] Eldar: You know, at first the idea's Cool. I thought about a movie right away. Like, yeah, look, these people with these clocks, right? They had that movie.

[00:23:20] Yeah. They had a movie like that. Yeah. Time. Oh, yeah. Okay. Where they just walking around and then you kind of know, but then like, I think people adapt even to that. I think they'll adapt. Right. Where it's like, all right, that's best part of the shit. You know what I mean? Like, if that's the gig, 

[00:23:34] Toliy: they'll adapt, but I think they'll, they'll 

[00:23:35] Eldar: still like, I'm not sure if they, if you, if they're gonna start cherishing like each other more, I think.

[00:23:39] Mike: Um, like I think, yeah. I think, um, if you're not, I'm gonna tie it back to the, the last topic. If you're not empowered 

[00:23:48] Yeah. 

[00:23:48] You, you're gonna, you're not gonna be satisfied regardless. You know, like with a, with a, if there's a lot of time left, not enough time left. Yeah. Yeah. It's like if you don't feel like, if you don't feel like you're in the driver's seat of your own life.

[00:24:01] Yeah. I don't think you ever be had, like, come to terms with dying. You always 

[00:24:06] Eldar: That's, that's interesting actually. Yeah. You 

[00:24:08] Mike: always Yeah. Have these things that, you know, we're talking about regrets, attachments. Yeah. Yeah. Dissatisfied because you kind of just like, you're in the passenger seat. Yeah. Right.

[00:24:21] Because, you know, all, everything that I think philosophy does uhhuh, it tries to put you into the driver's seat. 

[00:24:27] Yeah. 

[00:24:27] To question everything, to understand everything, to respect how the universe, the world works. Yeah. And if you are in the driver's seat and you try to be in the driver's seat for as much as possible of your life.

[00:24:41] Yeah. When you get to that road, it's like, okay, like you feel at peace, you're ready. Mm. But if you constantly. In a rat race. In a rat race. Yeah. Like you driving on a highway and you're just constantly crashing into the fucking side. Sidewall to the dividers. Yeah. You know, because you are not wanting to go there, but you're not satisfied with result, but you're not changing about it, you're not doing anything about it.

[00:25:03] Yeah. And until you do philosophy or you know Yeah. Try to input, uh, try to have philosophy as part of your life, you are gonna feel like, bro, I just did 80 years. I didn't feel like I got anywhere because I, I haven't been, there's not really, I want, I guess your soul maybe knows, is not really where you want it to go.

[00:25:21] Oh, 

[00:25:21] Eldar: be or be that whole time. Yeah. So, well, yeah. And they know the whole challenge of how people say a lot of times, oh, you know, you working nine to five. Doing God knows what, like a slave, you know? Mm-hmm. Like 40 years passed, you now re have to retire and you didn't do shit for yourself, and now you have to die.

[00:25:39] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:40] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. If you have a chance to kind of maybe travel the world a little bit. Yeah. And retirement, great. But other than that, like Yeah. You know, what'd you do? You know? And obviously, like you said, yeah. If you haven't lived an examined life, you didn't even make the choices of you were in the driver's seat.

[00:25:55] Right? Yeah. Maybe you can be like Tony's dad who just kind of like throws his hands up and say like, yeah, there's no, he can't control anything, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And just kind of it is what it is. Scenario. Yeah.

[00:26:10] Yeah. No. Again, you know, the more I think about it now, like death I, this impermanence, this state of impermanence serves a crazy, uh, lesson for those individuals who maybe take life for granted, right? Or not in the driver's seat, you know, it's a constant reminder, almost like. Hey, are you gonna wake up?

[00:26:31] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:33] Eldar: When are you gonna wake up? Yeah. You know, imagine, you know, people start, you know, dying around you. Mm-hmm. Like, what the fuck is happening? You know? Yeah. Oh, it's maybe only like it's set up in such a way, the system that it's always a reminder of like, Hey, I'm giving you reminders as much as possible in order for you to kind of get your shit together.

[00:26:56] Mike: It is set up like that, I think. Yeah. I think it's like that. Well, pain and suffering is the reminders. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That you're not doing what you should be doing. What doing, which is 

[00:27:04] Eldar: learning. Right. Yeah. Learn to progress so that you can enjoy this thing called life. Mm-hmm. Otherwise, yeah, like there's gonna be the boogeyman.

[00:27:12] Mm-hmm. There's gonna be all the sicknesses things, and ignorances and attachments, desires, all the things that are gonna be working against you and fucking up your nervous system. You know what I mean? Yeah. And ultimately you're not gonna be happy. You're just gonna be a fearful individual who's kinda always looking over their shoulder, you know?

[00:27:37] Yeah. I mean, but that's why I think Buddhists are so key when it comes to this, because they talk about impermanence all the time. 

[00:27:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:47] Eldar: And the way to kind of acknowledge all this is to see things for what they are. See reality for what? It's that nothing's permanent. 

[00:27:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:55] Eldar: Right. If nothing's permanent, well, don't hold attachments to it because attachments is what forms suffering.

[00:28:04] Mike: It's the root of suffering. Mm-hmm. You know, and 

[00:28:09] Eldar: the interesting part is, uh, because they believe in reincarnation. I don't think they believe in clean sleep when you, when you are born. So it's not like you just are born and now you're like this nice happy go lucky kid who doesn't have any attachments.

[00:28:23] You start picking shit up left and right, or already, or maybe you're already carrying something within you. You know, but then you have to clean yourself, clean your soul from 

[00:28:30] Mike: Mm. 

[00:28:31] Eldar: You know, throughout your life. So it's a very interesting 

[00:28:33] Mike: thing, you know? Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.

[00:28:43] Eldar: You are born just to try to figure out that you have so many attachments mm-hmm. So many desires, so you can clean yourself from that in order to find your pockets of happiness and freedom. Mm-hmm. From those things. 

[00:28:58] Mike: Yeah. Well, I think that's why like the, like the, um, like you said, they believe in reincarnation.

[00:29:03] You get a lot of sh shots at it. Yeah. You know? Seems like it. Yeah. I believe that too. I do think we have a lot of shots at it. Yeah. You know, and

[00:29:13] it's different for everybody, how many attempts it's gonna take, you know? 

[00:29:17] Eldar: Yeah. To ultimately what they, they called nirvana or the enlightened state 

[00:29:22] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:29:22] Eldar: To get there. Yeah. What is it then? What? Death is not a crazy boogeyman then after all, it's just a natural process. It's coming for everyone. 

[00:29:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:29:35] Eldar: It's gonna touch everyone.

[00:29:36] Mm-hmm. Right. From like, we started from maybe not so real things like basketball. Yeah. Passion to then relationships. Mm-hmm. And then to maybe loved ones. Mm-hmm. You know? 

[00:29:48] Mike: Yeah. But it, it's like, um, this is, it's part of life. Right. This is the rules and nobody Yeah. That I know of, uh, of in history physically.

[00:30:00] Yeah. I'll just say physically was able to escape it. Right. Yeah. But everybody's still like, quote unquote. Are they still fighting it? Hundred percent not 

[00:30:11] Eldar: accepting it a hundred percent. I think a hundred percent. You know, like what does that, why is that and what does that show? Well, I think that general, that means the general public does not accept the Buddhist notion of this is part of, part of the gig.

[00:30:23] It's a normal, natural process. Mm-hmm. Everything comes and goes. Yeah. But 

[00:30:27] Toliy: what do, what do you mean? Like, they're fighting it? Like, 

[00:30:29] Mike: well, spike said that, I mean, that they're fighting it. Like people are not okay with death. They think they have this bad thing around it. Well, yeah. It's bad. You 

[00:30:35] Toliy: know, 

[00:30:36] Eldar: they don't wanna die, you know?

[00:30:37] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:39] Eldar: Well, well, well, maybe that's the problem. 

[00:30:41] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:30:42] Eldar: You know what? I'm not saying? Wake up and start wanting to die. Mm-hmm. I'm not saying that. I'm saying live your life, live your life. But I think, but when, when the gig is up, you know what I mean? Gracefully understand it, or gracefully embrace it, but I think that 

[00:30:53] Toliy: like, people are like afraid, but I, I don't think that like, like it's like an everyday problem for them where they're thinking about it like that.

[00:31:02] You know? Like, like, 

[00:31:03] Mike: well maybe the people who are in their twenties, thirties. Yeah. But as people are older, they think about it more. I think as they get older, they start feeling sicker. They start feeling. More sensitive to pains. They have more pains. 

[00:31:15] Eldar: Well, plus we have relationships, right? We have engagements with people, right?

[00:31:18] Sure. Maybe our friends might not be dying in front of us because we're younger, right? Mm-hmm. But then we have maybe older friends and our, our parents have other parents. Mm-hmm. I mean friends, right? Yeah. You know, and grandparents and all this other stuff. So there's constantly a revolving door when it comes to living and dying, I think.

[00:31:35] Yeah. Some people are born babies and some people are going older or whatever. So you're constantly, I think, touched by it. You know, like for example, Harris's thing, right? Mm-hmm. Like we're affected by it. 

[00:31:46] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:31:47] Eldar: That's why we have in this topic, I think, is because as been pre, it was dominating us for the last month.

[00:31:53] Yeah. Right. So, you know, so I think there's plenty opportunity to, to think about it and constantly to maybe even dwell on it for some people. You know what I mean? Yeah. The question is how, how should you be dealing with it or how should you be perceiving it and what, what and how should it be affecting you, most importantly, right?

[00:32:15] Because the truth of the matter is, our parents are gonna die, right? We're gonna go through this shit. Mm-hmm. Like that's a, that's a fact. Yeah. You know what I mean? Um, how are we willing to go through it together? Alone in our own thoughts? Mm-hmm. Right. Gracefully or kicking and screaming. Right. I mean, with Harris for example, he doesn't even know what to feel.

[00:32:37] He doesn't know what to do. You know, one day he is like, I'm distraught next day like, Hey guys, what do I do? Can I get a haircut? Yeah. 

[00:32:45] Mike: You 

[00:32:45] Eldar: know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. So it's like you don't know. There's no blueprint or another training manual. Yeah. It's to say, okay, if your mom is about to pass away, you ought to do this.

[00:32:56] These are the steps, 

[00:32:58] Mike: you know? Well, I think, um, when, when you said there's no blueprint, but I think most people would say there's no. Like blueprint, how to live your life. Right? Yeah. People probably feel like that. And there's also probably no blueprint to death. Well, for sure. Either. 

[00:33:14] Eldar: No. I mean, they, they try to make a blueprint for how to live, how to live life.

[00:33:17] Yes. I think, 

[00:33:18] Mike: I think like the, there's a, I guess, philosophy is that mm-hmm. You know, what I believe is to be the blueprint of how to live your life and how you should strive to live your life. Yeah. But then if you follow that blueprint, then you have to, there should be no questions about death. 

[00:33:34] Yeah. 

[00:33:34] You would understand this.

[00:33:35] Everything has a beginning and ending. Yeah. I have, I'm not sure what, what have, has anybody ever experienced that doesn't start and doesn't end like, or there's a process that 

[00:33:46] Yeah. 

[00:33:47] That everybody goes through. 

[00:33:49] Yeah. 

[00:33:49] Not, not respecting that process or not like understanding it or not coming to terms with it, is to choose not to live 

[00:33:58] Eldar: according to the truth.

[00:33:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:34:00] Eldar: Yeah. The reason why it's like a boogeyman, it's almost like because of the fact that nobody talks about it. Mm-hmm. And when it does come around knocking on the door, right. Like, his mom gets sick, it's a fucking boogeyman. Mm-hmm. What do we do? Yeah. How do we do this? Right. There's no kind of like, like, Hey, I'm just gonna say these things.

[00:34:19] No. Like you, you, you said it yourself. Mm-hmm. To me, you said, Hey, I don't even know how to speak to him right now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know if you feeling the same way. Totally. Right. I'm also kinda like, you know, maybe biting my, my tongue sometimes, or choosing the words a little bit more carefully right now.

[00:34:34] Yeah. Because of the fact that like, it's a booky man and we kind like, okay, like how do we, how do we go about this? Yeah. Can we be ourselves? Are we allowed to be ourselves? Can we make these jokes? Yeah. You know what I mean? Or is this very serious where everybody has to be distraught? You know what I'm saying?

[00:34:53] Yeah. I mean like, take me seriously right now, my mom's going through something, you know? Yeah, this is very 

[00:35:01] Mike: serious. Mm-hmm. You know,

[00:35:08] I think, um, like it's, a lot of, a lot of the stuff ties into emotion, right? Like, uh mm-hmm. We are very emotional creatures. I dunno, humans, we're, people are just emotional. Mm-hmm. And not, not just people, but probably all like, uh, beings are, are emotional, I would assume. I don't know. But, um, and I think a lot of the emotion also ties into this because,

[00:35:35] yeah, I guess you can't like, uh, say emotions and not tie in. Like also attachments, right. Regrets. Mm-hmm. And a lot. And like a lot of the thoughts that people have when people start getting sick or mm-hmm. Somebody's dying. A lot of those emotions probably make you think about the choices you made in the past.

[00:35:58] And you are emotional about those choices because you're probably not too happy with them, 

[00:36:02] Eldar: but 

[00:36:03] Mike: you, are 

[00:36:03] Eldar: you actually having that conversation with yourself? No. Don't. Are, don't. So are you having that conversation with us, for example, right? No. You're not outwardly doing. No. So it's inside of you and it's creating all these emotions.

[00:36:13] Yes. You're not really speaking about it properly. Well, I mean that's why there's a grieving process. Yeah. You go to grieving counselors and all this stuff so they can unpack all this shit mm-hmm. And help you with your quote unquote regrets. Yeah. All this other fucking shit, anger. Mm-hmm. Or whatever it is, right?

[00:36:26] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:36:26] Eldar: Um, but yeah, you know, I mean, now comes to mind, Serge, when he passed away. Right. I mean, I remember telling you guys like, yo guys, be careful. You know what I mean? Because like, it's not looking so good for him. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? So attaching ourselves to his outcome would've been, I think, detrimental to our mental health.

[00:36:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:36:49] Eldar: You know? And I remember totally even saying like, elder. Yeah. Like I was very like on top of him and I was really wanting to help him. Mm-hmm. The kid is not receptive. Yeah. You know what I mean? The kid is saying like, I'm outta here guys. Everything was pointed to I'm outta here. Yeah. You cannot hold me.

[00:37:02] And he got, he's gone. 

[00:37:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:37:04] Eldar: You know what I mean? Um, you know, so I think that having, and I hope you guys did okay with that, you know what I mean? We went to the thing, obviously it was, it was hard, maybe a little bit emotional or whatever mm-hmm. When we met up with the Yeah. The family for the dinner. Yeah.

[00:37:21] You know, uh, but I hope that we prepared Okay. You know, to, to be able to take that on. I mean, I, I was okay. Yeah. You know, I wasn't like distraught, you know? No. Um, I think, I think that's, that's the important process. If you start seeing things for what they are, then you have the opportunity to kind of say, you know what?

[00:37:38] Like, I see what's going on here. Uh, this individual is not doing so well, and I'm not gonna go and attach myself to, to, to him getting better, for example. Mm-hmm. You know, uh, because it would be unfair to me, you know? 

[00:37:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:37:53] Eldar: Like in this case of like. You know, I see the optimism, you know, that Harris is like obviously kicking and pushing, you know what I mean?

[00:38:01] And like, as much as I just want to give him the optimistic, like, yeah, no, everything's gonna be all right. You know, like my mind based on what I'm assessing and stuff like that, based on what I've been kind of observing, does not show me any optimism here. Mm-hmm. And the outcome of his mom going back to quote unquote normal.

[00:38:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:38:17] Eldar: You know what I mean? Like, maybe, I don't know, something, I probably don't, but like, it's not looking so good, you know? But obviously he's holding on to these little, uh, pockets of like, hope, you know, how are we supposed to be with him? You opt, you just go on and be like, yeah, no, don't worry man. Just stay positive.

[00:38:37] You know? Yeah. Or do you be more realistic as to say like, yo, my man, get ready, bro. This might be the end. You know what I mean? How are you supposed to. Yeah, probably. 

[00:38:49] Mike: That's a tough question. Yeah. 

[00:38:51] Eldar: I mean, you know, because at that moment, what the kid believes in miracles, bro. Mm-hmm. He wants a miracle now.

[00:38:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:38:58] Eldar: You know what I mean? God, he said, I started praying. 

[00:39:00] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:39:00] Eldar: You know what that is? That's it. Mm-hmm. You start believing in something greater higher that you never 

[00:39:08] Mike: believed them before, you know?

[00:39:14] Yeah. The humility.

[00:39:21] What's it for? 

[00:39:22] Eldar: What, like, um, the change of behavior? Well, I think it's a drastic change. 

[00:39:27] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, um, like when my mom was experiencing that stuff, I mean, I definitely had like similar response things. Yeah, yeah. Like, um, because it's like a, you, you have like a powerless feeling, you know? Um, I. And when the powerlessness hits you, you can only resort to like higher powers that like your logical mind.

[00:39:58] Like, ha, like, like you're, you're at a point where, um,

[00:40:04] you have kind of feel, feel that like you've tapped out on all like the physical things that can be done, you know, or, or you can contribute to. So you try to go to a different realm where that like, you feel can be of like, impact. But I think that like, but you that like that, that won't happen if you like, do things correctly and you live correctly and you see this 

[00:40:30] Eldar: is what's interesting.

[00:40:31] Yeah. That you say live correctly and do things correctly. Yeah. Like you see like, uh, 'cause 

[00:40:36] Toliy: like what, what what you're doing ultimately, ultimately what you're doing is you're selling out. Yes. Right. That is what I wanted to say too. Yeah. Like you're. You're basically like, you know, like, like well heed by his, everything's okay, for example.

[00:40:51] Yeah. You ain't praying, you're not gonna say hi to him not once. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, you're not going to like church, synagogue, whatever. Right? Yeah. You're not praying, you're not doing any of that. Yeah. You're lots of times not living in accordance to any of those principles in there. Right. And then outta nowhere when you need something.

[00:41:08] Eldar: That's right. Yo, I'll do anything. 

[00:41:11] Toliy: Yeah. So it's like you're, you're, you're kind of like selling out because you feel like that the powerlessness and then you have like, like you have no options. Almost. See, so 

[00:41:20] Eldar: see you painted a very specific individual. You said, here's a person who doesn't live in accordance to the God, right?

[00:41:26] Mm-hmm. To God, let's just say according to what God's word is, the principles. Right? You're not a good person, let's just say. Yeah. Right. And then of a switch of a button, we're gonna introduce the word death. 

[00:41:41] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:41] Eldar: Someone in your family dying. And guess what happens? 

[00:41:46] Mike: You'll do anything. 

[00:41:46] Eldar: You go on your knees.

[00:41:48] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:49] Eldar: To beg you understand, you didn't do, you didn't live like, and then totally says, but if you did live correctly right. In accordance to God the God's principles, how would the picture look? Yeah. Would it be completely different? You would be accepting of the fact that, uh, yo, if if shit hits the fan, it hits the fan.

[00:42:10] Toliy: Yeah. A hundred percent. 

[00:42:11] Eldar: But, but, uh, you see, the question that came to my 

[00:42:13] Toliy: mind is why is that Well, al also like in those things and on those teachings, like they talk about this and what happens, and they give you an explanation and like Hmm. If you, so you hang onto them, you hang onto that. Yeah. Like, if you like about that, then like, 

[00:42:28] Eldar: yeah.

[00:42:28] Yeah. Then you kind of, it's in God's hands. 

[00:42:31] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had a, I had a question. I guess it ties to this, but, but, um. Like when we ask for help or we ask God right out, especially out of the blue or even not in the blue. 

[00:42:46] Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:48] We're asking, we're asking for something to happen. Right. Yeah. From a stance of like, what has that person, uh, the, my favorite word is deserve mm-hmm.

[00:43:01] For the outcome of their life to transpire. Like, how is this supposed to play out for anybody who's going through this kind of thing? And we're kind of saying like, Hey, I know this person might not deserve it, but like, help me out here. Like, you know, save this person. Hmm. In a way that to me is also like, it's the wrong perception because.

[00:43:22] The person, everybody or every single person gets exactly what, where they are and where they're supposed to be in that, and then in every specific moment in their lives. 

[00:43:31] Eldar: Mm-hmm. So a lot of people would disagree with you, but go ahead. 

[00:43:34] Mike: They would. Right, of course. Yeah. That's why they, I don't deserve this.

[00:43:39] Well, that's why I think we have such cheat on me, huge disagreement about Yes. The death thing. Yeah. And I think, you know, and it's definitely insensitive to say this kind of stuff, but, well, there you go. But the thing is, I believe that's the truth. You know? So why is it insensitive? 

[00:43:54] Eldar: Because the world put us in an insensitive, very sensitive box 

[00:43:57] Mike: because, you know, the logic is painful to a lot of people who don't operate side side with logic, you know?

[00:44:05] Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that's ultimately what, what's, what's the, that's why it's tricky for us to have a conversation. 'cause we want to like have a logical 

[00:44:16] Eldar: Yeah. To ultimately be what the closest to God possible. 

[00:44:20] Mike: Yes. 

[00:44:22] Eldar: Because God as is as logical as it gets. 

[00:44:24] Mike: I think so. Yeah. 

[00:44:25] Eldar: God has reason. 

[00:44:26] Mike: Well, yeah. 

[00:44:27] Eldar: Hmm. I agree with you.

[00:44:29] Mike: You know, and I think, uh, and I think that's why the, it's, it's, it's wrong. Mm-hmm. It's maybe even like the position is humble, right? Like he's humbly asking. Yeah. But in a way is it, is it like, uh, is it the opposite by saying, Hey, I know that this is supposed to happen, but do this for me. Mm-hmm. Like, help me out, like whatever it is, right?

[00:44:54] Yeah. 

[00:44:56] You asking for something that might not supposed to happen, like you saying like, Hey, God, you don't know better. Do what I'm asking, please. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. In a way by asking for something like you, like the person's life planned out and the way the trajectory of everybody's life mm-hmm. Is the way it's supposed to be.

[00:45:14] Yeah. You asking for a detour? That they might not 

[00:45:17] Eldar: necessarily. Uh, and I think that's why the detour doesn't sometimes happen, bro. Oh yeah, for sure. You know what I mean? I think that, like you said, if if this shit is planned the way it's supposed to go, this is the road course. There is no second road. Yeah.

[00:45:29] Because, uh, to some degree there's, there's destiny that's been chosen a long time ago. 

[00:45:35] Mike: Oh, yeah. Destiny, I think is the deserved thing, destiny. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I think that's what it is. And I think, again, nobody's gonna, nobody really wants to side with that. 

[00:45:44] Eldar: Yeah. I think you definitely have chances in life to be able to, you know, maybe, uh, change the trajectory of your destiny.

[00:45:51] Sure. Right. As you progress, as you learn, as you fall, you learn more. Uh, but there's certain things that you've, that's, that's been maybe ingrained in us so much, or ignorance is so deeply rooted that, um, so in order to kind of really challenge that ignorance, some of these things have to happen the way they do, you know, in accordance to a very specific plan.

[00:46:13] Mike: Mm-hmm. You know.

[00:46:19] Eldar: And, and it's interesting because Harris also asked the question like about, uh, he said it very interesting. He said, this happened to me because, like, I deserve this. Remember what he say said he's because I'm a sinner or something like that. Yes. 

[00:46:32] Mike: I remember Is God punishing me or something? It's God, 

[00:46:33] Eldar: God punishing me for all this.

[00:46:35] Right. Like, kinda like, you know, obviously I'm like, I don't think so. No. You know what I mean? Um, but again, that statement is like, 

[00:46:44] Mike: also it's very like, I don't, I wanna use the word arrogant here. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. It, it's like. It's not, it's God punishing me because I deserve this. It's more like is God punish me, but I don't deserve this.

[00:46:56] Like, we always feel like, Hey, God is wrong here. Why are you punishing me, man? Yeah. Yeah. You, no, you're right. It's not like, yo, I'm a piece of shit. Yeah. Is God punishing me? It's like, Hey, I'm a good person. Why is God punishing me? Yeah. You know, it's trues wrong again, the perception is wrong. 

[00:47:09] Eldar: No, but no, no.

[00:47:10] You see, sure. The perception might be wrong and maybe he's phrasing it in a very specific way, but nonetheless, he's shooting in the right direction. No, he is shooting in the right direction. Yeah. You start asking these questions. Yeah. Right. As soon as you start, you know, ringing the bell of dying and death, you know?

[00:47:25] Mm-hmm. You start, you start, you start thinking a little bit, you start reflecting a little bit, right? 

[00:47:30] Toliy: Yeah. But I think that like, like I'm not sure if he's, like, he's shooting in the direction of like, why is this happening with, with my mom versus like. Why no, why is this happening to me as well? No, he said why serious?

[00:47:46] Why is he punishing me? Yeah. Is guy trying to punish me? Well, yes. No, no, no. I know that, but I think he's saying it in reference of like, something bad is happening, for example, to his mom. Therefore, he's being punished. Where it's like the punishment here more or less is like the, um, like the way you understand the scenario and the way that you like see or don't see the, the reality of what's going on.

[00:48:13] Right. Say it again like I, I think he's saying it in the sense of like, it, like, like Sure. He, he, he, he's saying like, is God punishing me? He's saying, but I think he's saying that in reference to something bad happening to his mom as like a result of his doings versus. Like, 

[00:48:33] Eldar: oh, you're saying that it, so the, okay, so like his mom is the collateral damage of his wrongdoing.

[00:48:39] Oh, yes. Okay. Oh, wow. 

[00:48:40] Toliy: Yes. I I don't think he's, he's saying, yeah, he probably might be right. Oh, yeah. Like the, the, the more, the right thing is like, like to like, to like, think about like, it's like your reaction or your ability to see the reality or lack of ability to see reality because like, for example, like, like we can examine that scenario over there and we can look at the people that are in it, and if things like death or crazy illnesses happen to them, like based on their lifestyles, based on how they act, based on how they live, based on like what they endure.

[00:49:13] Yeah. Based on like the decisions that they make. Yeah. Is it like a surprise surprising? Like, should it be a surprising thing for a thinking individual? Yeah. No, you're right. No. Yeah, right now, like. Um, like just looking at it from the surface, obviously we don't know for sure, but just looking on the surface, like the Benin thing, right?

[00:49:32] Yeah. Someone who like doesn't smoke is in good shape. Mm-hmm. I don't know, let's just say lives life in like a more or less healthy way. Yeah. And then they get like a crazy illness and like crazy unhealthy things, like Yeah. Mm-hmm. Was that logical? Like, like I'm not sure how that happened, bro. Those a lot hard, 

[00:49:50] Eldar: those are a lot harder 

[00:49:50] Mike: to kind of accept, but there's a sick thing.

[00:49:52] I watched the show Uhhuh like a ago. Honest, no. About a sick, sick thing that happened. Okay. Okay. I think I told you about the show. It's The Biggest Loser you heard about the show? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You heard about the show, the Biggest Loser? Yeah. Okay. So there was two. The, the story is obviously, you know, a bunch of people wanna come in and wanna lose a bunch of weight, get healthy, okay.

[00:50:10] Yeah. And there's two people who come in and they're trainers, they're opposite teams. Okay. Okay. One is this girl. Jillian. Mm-hmm. And this other guy, I don't remember his name. Anyway, these contestants go on the show Uhhuh. Okay. And they're getting trained by these two people. And obviously these two people, they're intense.

[00:50:27] Mm-hmm. You know, they're like numb nuts. Book bootcamp, boot campers. Yeah. And what happens in, in this documentary, 

[00:50:33] yeah. 

[00:50:33] And one of the guys who's actually the trainer, he ends up getting a heart attack and almost dying. Oh my God. And he's in his forties. Oh my God. While these fat people over there, yo. And I'm like, bro, this is the ultimate like Gigi.

[00:50:45] Yeah. Because this guy's all about health. Looks healthy. Yeah. But skinny. He's like crazy. Numb nut, you know? But he's a numb nuts. He has crazy stress. Yeah. It lost his mind completely. Holy shit. But he looks fit. Yeah. Compared to these people, he looks like a, yeah. You know? Perfect. Yeah. But these people, they're overweight like crazy.

[00:51:01] Yeah. And he's skinny, healthy, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, whatever. And I'm like, bro, this is sick. What a crazy thing. Yeah. So I was like, bro, the people who watch the show, they'll probably be like, yo, this is hilarious. Like. Yeah. Obviously people also on the show have complications and maybe some people die too, but like, yeah, it's funny, the guy who's the, like symbol of health, the fit, the fitness, fitness, 

[00:51:22] Eldar: who was actually the coach Yes.

[00:51:24] Suffers it. That kind attack thing. Attack at a young age. Yeah. 

[00:51:26] Mike: Yeah. Crazy. So 

[00:51:29] Eldar: yeah, that's an interesting phenomenon. Sure. 

[00:51:31] Toliy: Yeah. So like, if, if, if we observe that family, for example, and what's going on there, I think it's for like, you know, this kind of stuff to happen. Like it makes sense, for example. Yeah, it does make sense.

[00:51:42] And I think that if you're an individual that again, like operates on logic and lives with the truth and like, you know, all these different things, you can look at that and like, you can see that from like a mile away. And if it happens, like if you have all those tools and under understandings that you can react a proper way.

[00:52:02] But Yeah, like if you're more or less like an idiot or you've been operating from like, you know, a different 

[00:52:08] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:08] Toliy: Um, like, like operating a different way. Then you're supposed to take things a different way. You're supposed to go about things in a non logical way. And a lot of times these emotional reactions are part of that.

[00:52:23] I mean, I experienced it firsthand. Yeah. You know, um, it was definitely like, you know, a tough time. And, uh, how long ago was that? Was that 10 years ago or something? No, it was like, um, probably about like 6, 7, 6, 7 years ago. 

[00:52:37] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. It's a 

[00:52:38] Toliy: long time 

[00:52:38] Eldar: now too, you know? Yeah. Um, knowing what you know now, do you think you, your response would be different?

[00:52:49] I'd like to think, yes. Okay. Well, you're leaning towards Yes. 

[00:52:52] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:53] Eldar: I'm leaning towards yes, but, but not saying it's not supposed, not supposed to not hurt. Yeah. I think it's supposed to hurt. You know what I'm saying? Obviously, you know. 

[00:53:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:03] Eldar: Uh, seeing our loved ones go through a very painful experience.

[00:53:07] Right. Um. It hurts, but like you said, if you see the trajectory of individuals, right, even if your parents are living an unhealthy lifestyle, right? Um, and you kind of know statistical data analysis that like, look, if you live this type of lifestyle, these are the outcomes. These are possible things that can happen, right?

[00:53:26] It's no longer becoming a surprise or shock that if they do happen. You know, but that doesn't negate the fact that you might still react obviously poorly. 

[00:53:36] Toliy: Yeah. I think it's difficult to not react like poorly, but I think it's just a matter of like how long all that takes and like Yeah. How you go like, yeah.

[00:53:45] About it, you know? 

[00:53:46] Eldar: Yeah. For example, for, for me, for my mom, I, you guys know, obviously, you know, like, you probably witnessed it too, but like, because my mom is so like out there, like, you know, just like going crazy or whatever, uh, sometimes her mind, mind slips, she like, forgets certain words. Yeah. She, she forgets like a thought pattern, right?

[00:54:04] She's saying a story or whatnot. You could see that like there's some slippage there. Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:07] Mike: You 

[00:54:07] Eldar: know, and it's almost like telltale signs to me, like, what's gonna happen in 10 years? And I think about this. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm almost like already preparing that. Like if a mom does lose her memory or starts to develop, you know, a dementia or Alzheimer's or something like that, like.

[00:54:23] Like, it's not, it wouldn't be surprising to me. I'm seeing signs now. 

[00:54:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:27] Eldar: That like, Hey ma, like if you don't get your stress under control, like, and I'm reminding her of this, I'm like, you are gonna be in a group home not remembering who we are. She's like, no, no, no. I'm like, take your fucking vitamins then.

[00:54:38] You know what I mean? And get your sleep. Mm-hmm. Because when she doesn't, it's clear as day. 

[00:54:43] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:44] Eldar: That she's all over the place. Yeah. Bouncing off the walls and not remembering shit from shit. 

[00:54:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:54:49] Eldar: You know what I mean? And you know, I see like that sometimes when I come over for pancakes and stuff. Even, you know, she burns her hands and stuff like left and right.

[00:54:57] Touches the stove the wrong way, forgets the, to turn off the stove. Like these things are already like accumulating. Mm-hmm. You know, and I'm like mentally preparing for that, like what's gonna happen, you know? Sure. She's 65 is not terrible, you know, but like, it's gonna happen in five, 10 years, you know? So I'm like, I'm already taking those mental notes of like, yo.

[00:55:16] Mm-hmm. This might be a rollercoaster, you know? How else am I supposed to like, you know, prepare for show like this? Mm-hmm. Like, if not now, you know, it's like, okay, cool. You know? Hmm. But I think that, I think it's probably super necessary to start, you know, in order not to completely be thrown off balance.

[00:55:40] Or one day she wakes up and doesn't remember my name and looking at me like I'm fucking a stranger. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. I gotta think about that now. 

[00:55:49] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:51] Eldar: You know, and I'm, I'm having these conversations with her. 

[00:55:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:55:54] Eldar: You know, I'm scolding her. Mm-hmm. Like, ma, you don't wanna remember us anymore.

[00:55:58] Like, you know, it's gonna happen, you know? Mm-hmm. Some of her paranoia and stuff like that about grandma stuff and stuff like that, you know? You witnessed it. Yeah. So, yeah, as much as we spend our time, I think, uh, trying to chisel ourselves out. Through a pH philosophical standpoint to live a good, fun, happy life.

[00:56:21] I think that we need to also prepare for, you know, the finale. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Because it's, I mean, I'm already 40, you know what I mean? So like, obviously I'm not trying to check out now, but you know, shit's gonna be happening. You know, my dad is 70, my mom is 65. 

[00:56:42] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:43] Eldar: You know? Yeah. And they already lived a good portion of their life, 

[00:56:46] Mike: you know?

[00:56:50] Eldar: What about you? Do you have these thoughts about your parents? 

[00:56:52] Mike: Well, yeah, I mean, I had a conversation. I know your mom's been 

[00:56:55] Eldar: stressing for a long time. Oh, I told her. I 

[00:56:57] Mike: tell her like, yo, like I have open conversation. Like, you know what's gonna happen if you keep stressing like this? Right? 

[00:57:01] Yeah. 

[00:57:03] You know, you, you're not gonna live much longer.

[00:57:06] Mm-hmm. You know, like, but obviously. It's a intense thing to say, but Yeah. I'm I'm saying it more differently now than Yeah. I think I would've approached it before, you know? Yeah. And I tell her like, yeah, this is not good for you. And I told my dad like, you know, this whole situation. Yeah. 'cause they obviously, they're like, feel bad for Emma.

[00:57:26] Yeah. 

[00:57:26] You know, and I'm like, I understand you feel bad for Emma. 

[00:57:28] Yeah. 

[00:57:29] But you won't sacrifice your life. And I asked them this question several times. Mm-hmm. You know, they say no, but they're not ready to like let go mm-hmm. Of the situation, which is very stressful for them. 

[00:57:40] Eldar: See, the thing is, that's a very interesting question that you ask, right.

[00:57:42] Are you willing to sacrifice your life for Emma, for example, which is your sister. 

[00:57:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:57:46] Eldar: Right. And I think that the parents actually do. Yeah. I think they actually, you know, like the way they lead their lives or whatever, A lot of the times they show that like, yeah, all they do is fucking stress from us.

[00:57:58] You know what I mean? For the kids. The kids kind of thing. Yeah. You know, where it's like they're constantly worried about shit. Mm-hmm. You know, like 

[00:58:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:58:04] Eldar: It's like a crazy way to live. Yeah. But I think that a lot of parents probably go through that. 

[00:58:08] Mike: Yeah. I told, I told my dad like, uh, recently, I, um. I said, you worried about the key when he said, I want to put Emma up, besides Emma.

[00:58:16] Remember I told you this? Yeah, 

[00:58:17] yeah, yeah. 

[00:58:18] Put her on her feet and I said, uh, put yeah. Put my sister on her feet, like get her life, you know, more situated. I said to him, I'm like, you, by you holding her hand, you might be preventing her from actually getting on her feet. Mm-hmm. By babying her, you know, and you know, and you also preventing yourself from growing as well.

[00:58:35] Hmm. To like, you know, improve your quality of life. Yeah. You know, I said this to him and Yeah. But it is a hard choice for them, you know? It is a hard choice forever. They think they know better. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So they think, we don't know as kids, even though we're kids, they're kids. Even though we're not kids anymore.

[00:58:54] Yeah. They think we don't know, or we're not supposed to figure it out on our own as well. 

[00:58:59] Eldar: Yeah. Which is a crazy cycle because it's like a tight relationship that it's like closed ended, like it's closed, you know? Mm-hmm. You know, the, the parents are not progressing and the, and the kids are not progressing Yeah.

[00:59:12] Because of it. And they're just kind of stuck in this bubble of non progression. Mm-hmm. You know, because people have their attachments. 

[00:59:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:19] Eldar: You know, but again, and then what, right. What's gonna be knocking on the door health. 

[00:59:24] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:59:24] Eldar: Right. And health is close to death. 

[00:59:26] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:26] Eldar: You know, like you of age, you're stressing so much what's gonna happen, right?

[00:59:30] Mm-hmm. You know? 

[00:59:32] Mike: Yeah.

[00:59:36] Eldar: So, yeah. So you are, you are also feeling that. 

[00:59:37] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. You're also like, well, I see the stress levels are crazy, you know? Mm-hmm. I also see the lifestyle as, not like my dad, he's 62. Mm-hmm. But he's fit. You know, he, every morning he works out, he does the exercise every mor he takes multiple walks. Yeah.

[00:59:55] You know, like he's doing healthy certain things. Mm-hmm. You know, but he has bad sleep. He has stress with Emma. Angry with Emma and Francisco and Yeah. And my nephew. And you know, he has that. Yeah. My mom, she doesn't exercise much. She sits at home, you know, but she has the stress. Right. But she has the stress, you know?

[01:00:17] Yeah. And she has her own way. Like we, we laugh at her all the time, you know, and she's like, Hey, leave me alone. This is my stress. Like thing. She's like, she's constantly cooking, cleaning, doing laundry. Yeah. And my dad's yelling like, yo, why you spend, why are you wasting money? Like, you know, my dad, my dad and his antics.

[01:00:32] Yeah. And she's like, Hey, this is for me a stress reliever. This is where like, you know, that's where she thrives. She meditates. Mm-hmm. When she's doing those things, she doesn't think about the stress. Like, that's her, that's her way of routine thing. Coping. Which is, yeah. Coping. And it works for her. 

[01:00:46] Yeah.

[01:00:46] But. 

[01:00:48] Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:00:52] Eldar: Yeah. It's interesting for sure. You know, I mean, trying to imagine, you know, like, oh, my mom not being here, or my dad, my dad not being here. It's like, it's gonna happen, you know? Yeah. But doesn't mean that the world's not gonna be here, you know what I mean? Doesn't mean like my friends won't be here.

[01:01:07] Yeah. You know what I mean? Obviously, we're still gonna journey our lives together, right? Mm-hmm. That's part of the gig, you know? So, yeah. And I, I don't have, like, I don't think I have like the, the feelings of regret or like, not being, not being there for them mm-hmm. Or feeling a certain type of way, you know?

[01:01:24] Yeah. That's gonna hold me back and say like, oh, I wish I, like I did this or that. You know, like, I think I had overall good time with them. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And I think I'll continue to have a good time as long as they're here. 

[01:01:35] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:36] Eldar: You know? So, yeah. Like I don't feel like, okay, sure. If, if death is approaching for them, uh, I have to like turn it up.

[01:01:45] You know what I mean? 

[01:01:46] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:01:47] Eldar: Like, let's just go like, do these vacations. Yeah. And do all these like things. No. Like I think we should steadily keep doing what we're doing and maybe, you know, sprinkle things here and there. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? If they want to. 

[01:01:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:01:59] Eldar: And that's it. You know? What else, what else can you, what else do you want?

[01:02:03] What else should you be doing? Mm-hmm. You know, Joe actually had an interesting, um, what's his name encounter with his dad. Maybe he can go on the podcast and tell us about it, but I'm not gonna speak for him. Mm-hmm. About this specific thing as well, about what his dad is worrying about and what he's constantly stressing about.

[01:02:23] And he had a very deep moment with him. Mm. Where Joe's like, hey, also was reminding him, dad, like, I want you to be around for Benny, you know, his grandson. 

[01:02:32] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:33] Eldar: You know? Yeah. It was very powerful. And Joe's like, holy shit. Like, you know, he couldn't believe that he had to have that kind of conversation with his dad.

[01:02:39] Mm. About also him passing away because of all the stressors. Which is crazy. These are the conversations we're gonna have to have. Yeah. You know, as we get older and our parents can 

[01:02:49] Toliy: Yeah. That, that transitioning, that's the thing is that like, we're like,

[01:02:55] like we we're, we're tied and you also have attachments with people that like live life in accordance, like with like, a lot of times not with the truth, you know? 

[01:03:04] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:03:05] Toliy: So by doing that, you're pretty much setting yourself up for failure, you know, in that realm. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, like if you tie it to like, I don't know, like

[01:03:20] Yeah. If you tie it to like anything, like if you, if you're involved with something that's like, you know, doesn't really make logical sense or is bound to like fail in like a particular way 

[01:03:30] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:03:31] Toliy: Then like, you're probably going, yeah. Like you, you probably, you should and you probably will suffer. From from it.

[01:03:39] Eldar: But I 

[01:03:40] Toliy: think you can, you know, 

[01:03:41] Eldar: you can you, if you see something coming, I think that there is a level of preparation that you can do in order to soften that blow. 

[01:03:47] Toliy: Yeah. And 

[01:03:48] Eldar: you know what I 

[01:03:48] Toliy: mean? Yeah. In some ways, you know, but I think again, it's still painful because you have a lot of memories and a lot of like, things that you're not even aware of as far as like attachments that are like latched on to you, but isn't the 

[01:04:05] Eldar: whole point of philosophy is to be able to dig those things out and say like, okay, like, like Mike said, we have to like.

[01:04:12] Be as close as possible to understanding God's plan. And if you understand the reality and God's plan or reason, then you slowly peel away some of these attachments that you're talking about and those I, those identities that we've been clinging on mm-hmm. For so long in order to finally, when it's time to be able to transition properly.

[01:04:31] Right. And not lose your head completely. Mm-hmm. Because obviously we know some people deal with it one way, another person deals with it another way. Right. Yeah. Our friend Harris is about to deal with something. He's dealing with it already. Mm-hmm. You know, and how is it right as you guys can see, like he's completely distraught, like he's not here.

[01:04:48] You know what I mean? Yeah. Because of the fact that it is very difficult, you know? Yeah. And his high hopes obviously are there, and. Me based on what I've been evaluating of you guys too. I'm like that I can't have the same high hopes for his mom's a hundred percent recovery. Mm-hmm. Because everything that's been transpired, right.

[01:05:08] You know? Yeah. I can wish that and ask God for that as much as I want, but there's a fucking plan in place. There's something that's already been mm-hmm. Like, settled, you know what I mean? Like, that's 

[01:05:20] Toliy: how it's gonna play out. 

[01:05:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:05:21] Toliy: There's not much you can do. Yeah. I just feel that, like, when, when I see this unfold, like when, when like I'm the outsider looking into it and I see things like this unfold.

[01:05:31] Like, like it make, it may, it makes me think of like, um, like in general like peoples and like including myself, like daily, like

[01:05:48] almost like, like is everyone like, like doing enough almost each day. The opportunity that like they have. And to me it's, well, that's a good question. Lot, lot of times when you see these things unfold, it's almost like, um, like, like, I mean like you can look at it and be and say like, yeah, like people are doing exactly like what, what they could, for example, you know?

[01:06:14] Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I just feel like we all have an opportunity each day that we like wake up, you know, to do better, um, yeah, to do better, to like, think better, to like act on the things that we're not acting on. Like do the things. Yeah. But you know what? That we're not doing, you know what, that's, that's very easy to say to about like, you know this already, right?

[01:06:37] Like, no, no, I, I know this. But I still think that like, even, like even my, like, like, I mean, I, I definitely at times my, I mean my actions show that you, like, you take it for granted. Right. Yeah. I, 

[01:06:50] Mike: I feel like what, what you're saying, uh, it may, when you were speaking just now, made me think about this's.

[01:06:55] There's, in this case, and in all the cases, in many cases of life, it's the, like this battle that's never ending is between like reason and emotion, right? We operate at a lot of times out of those two areas, or don't operate out of those two areas where a lot of time, emotions drive our decisions. Rather than reason, you know, or our, not just our decisions, but also our stances on things.

[01:07:21] We become emotional about the situation versus be reasonable about situation, you know, or I think and move logically or move reasonably versus move emotionally. 

[01:07:32] Toliy: But I think our, our, like our re reasons drive our emotions. So like, I don't necessarily think that like, there's like one way to operate or like the other, I think that like, um, which like, like whichever way that you define it and like whichever way shows, shows itself, like on the forefront mm-hmm.

[01:07:52] Is like your reasons, but your reasons are showing through your, your 

[01:07:57] Mike: not No, I meant, um, not reasons, like reasons like why you do things, but your ability to reason. 

[01:08:06] Toliy: Yeah. Like your inability to reason Yes. Shows through your. Like what you like. See, see, it's like, I feel like we're calling them like emotions, but they're like to, to me, they're the same things.

[01:08:18] Like a proper, a person who reasons properly mm-hmm. Is going to have proper emotions to proper things. Right? Yeah. A person who has an inability to reason is gonna have, um, uh, um, like non-pro emotions mm-hmm. To, to non-pro things for, for example, 

[01:08:35] Eldar: well, but, but desirable and non desirable emotions. Like Yeah.

[01:08:38] If you're reasoning properly, you're gonna have desirable ones, and if not, then you're gonna have ones that cause you pain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what I was thinking more of, you know how toll's like kind of blanket statements like, hey, like every day you can just wake up and do better. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. But the truth of the matter is, you know how I just describe this, this like almost destiny that's happening, for example, that's playing out.

[01:08:58] Let's get, that's just saying Harris's um, life right now. You know, when his mom, obviously that's a big story, right? Mm-hmm. That's been going on for a very long time. The woman is older, right? Mm-hmm. She's been through a lot, you know what I mean? Her body's been through a lot. Mm-hmm. Her mind's been through a lot.

[01:09:14] She already had all these preexisting conditions before she went into some of the procedures that she's went through. Mm-hmm. Right? Um, and that's already a big story. Mm-hmm. Right? And maybe it's hard to be able to wake up and be positive and whatever and try to change this specific narrative because the narrative is already there.

[01:09:33] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:34] Eldar: But toll's challenge is saying, look, but the small things, you should be able to, my challenge is actually no, there's a little narrative. A little destiny attached to all those small little things, and they're the ones that hold you away from waking up in the morning and being grateful Right. In every moment that you live in them.

[01:09:53] Mm-hmm. Or being nice. I actually think Yeah. 

[01:09:55] Toliy: That, that's what I'm saying. 

[01:09:56] Eldar: I'm actually thinking that because of the fact that you are very specific person, right. And you have very specific set of beliefs and values. You wake up with those values, death transcended from yesterday to today, and you can't start the day fresh.

[01:10:11] You still operating out of that anger. Mm-hmm. Out of that resentment. Mm-hmm. Frustration, right? Yeah. It's continuation. So you can't wake up and be, you know what, today I'm gonna be grateful. No, you are still stuck with whatever conclusions you've made. Oh yeah. You that are not serving well, that to be a shift.

[01:10:28] Mike: Exactly. That has to be a, a monumental shift probably, right? Yes. 

[01:10:32] Toliy: Yeah. That, that, that's what I'm saying is that like when you, you cannot, when, when you start to realize like right from wrong and you don't take drastic. Measures which most people don't. Mm-hmm. Right. Like you kind of like are in like a simmering phase.

[01:10:49] Yeah. You know? Um, I think it's extremely difficult to, for like actual change, to happen fast enough for you to, um, to change these fundamental ideals you have because they're too lodged in, they're too strong, you know? And like you said, like you wake up each day EE each day and you still operate Yeah.

[01:11:17] From all that because you're paralyzed. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, like that that, that to me is like, when, when I see what, what, what I see like an unfold, you know? Um, like, like you can't unplug, 

[01:11:30] Eldar: you know what I mean? Like, you can't unsubscribe from these emails, from this spam. You just can't. That spam is gonna keep going into your head.

[01:11:37] Every you can, but there are times, 

[01:11:39] Toliy: I mean, we try to help people Yes. Unsubscribe, spam. There are times, there are times when we're onto something and I still think that there's times where we don't do enough to, that's what Socr says to, to, to like propel that. Correct. You know, like we, yeah. 

[01:11:53] Eldar: Like we, like if you stumble upon the truth, don't just pick up yourself up and keep running or keep walking.

[01:11:58] Examine that truth and that's what he's calling 

[01:12:00] Toliy: for. Yeah. Be because like, what, what happens is that like we just teeter back and forth instead for a long time. Yeah. I agree. You know, and we're in that like, in between world. Yeah. Where like you still don't have that kind of control or that kind of reality that like you're looking for.

[01:12:15] Yeah. You know? Oh, Mike talked about that too. 

[01:12:17] Eldar: Like we not being able to take a stance a lot of the times, right? Yeah. Where you're like, you're not here. Not there. Yeah. You can't be wrong to learn something and you can't be right to get empowered. 

[01:12:27] Toliy: So where are you? I feel like teetering. Yeah. Like, like, yeah.

[01:12:32] Yeah. Like that, that, that's what I'm saying is that, so when I see this unfold to me, just always reminds me of like, like, um, like drastic measures need to be taken, you know, for like, like if you want drastic changes to happen mm-hmm. You know? 

[01:12:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:12:48] Toliy: But when you're in those scenarios, there's, you like, it, it's, it's very difficult for you to jump over your preconceived notions and your, um, like, it, it's, it, it, it's very difficult for you to let go of what you already know.

[01:13:05] You know? And what you already know is what holds you back from like, knowing what you don't know right now, you know? Say that again. Um, like, uh. Um, knowing what you know right now holds you back from knowing what you don't know, right? Yeah. Right now. Yeah. You know that that's what it's, that's that's the gatekeeper.

[01:13:29] Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Your current way of understanding is holding you back from knowing that old, the future way that you want to learn. Understand. Yeah. Learn, learn and understand. So like, yeah, like when, when, when I'm seeing this like that, that's how I feel like internally, because like, I'm a, like a, uh, very strong like over analyzer and like over like thinker of things, you know?

[01:13:55] But there's plenty of opportunities I get where I stumble upon the truth and I don't take, um, enough time to examine it. Well, yeah. Yeah. I don't take, like, I don't take it seriously enough and I don't take the drastic measures needed to, um, then be in that future moment and, and like, like enjoying my, my life.

[01:14:18] As a result of the measures I took before. Yeah. You know? 

[01:14:22] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:14:22] Toliy: But instead, like, you're gonna live that future life, for example, like, like if you're gonna stay alive, you're gonna live that future life and you're not gonna like it anyway in the future. Like, you like that, that's gonna be you in a future.

[01:14:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:14:34] Toliy: That's gonna be you, you know, tomorrow, a week from now, a month from now, A year from now. 

[01:14:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:14:39] Toliy: Right. If you don't take those types of like, measures of doing things, uh, and like, I don't want to use the word lazy, uh, laziness because it's like, like it, it, it sounds like that's what it is with like most people's associations, like, of it.

[01:14:56] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:14:56] Toliy: But I know it's not, you know, but like, um,

[01:15:04] yeah, I feel like when you, like if you're observing someone else, like going through, through this and you're thinking about it, I think that like it's in your best interest to like examine your life a little bit closer so that like. Um, you can deal with things properly. You could do things properly and like, like ultimately, like you can change your life a lot faster than, than like, you're, you think it is like, um, like, like real change.

[01:15:33] Like I feel like a lot of times only takes, um, like, or it feels like it's so far, so long because like you're gonna be teetering on the ship for so long and so far like that that, that that's what takes the longest, right? Yeah. Is like your inability to make decisions and your inability to like actually do it and like go for it.

[01:15:52] Take the, take 

[01:15:52] Eldar: the stance. Take that leap. 

[01:15:53] Toliy: Right. Like that, that that's what takes the longest. Yeah. Like the cult, like the, you're right. Like the buildup to to, to the buildup drop the is yes, you're right. 

[01:16:01] Eldar: Until the drop and you can actually start taking the right steps. Yeah. But 

[01:16:04] Toliy: oftentimes, like the actual stance is not like you, you can take the stance right now.

[01:16:10] Right now you can take it, but you're not going to. Yeah, for example, you know? Yeah. So like, yeah, just make, it, makes me think to like reexamine those things and then to like not have short term memory like, um, towards them and then make good decisions for yourself for now and for your future. 

[01:16:31] Mike: I agree with that.

[01:16:32] Yeah.

[01:16:35] And how does death play 

[01:16:37] Eldar: play a part in this? Totally 

[01:16:39] Toliy: tie it up well. Yeah. I feel like death plays, um, a part in it because it, it, it forces you to, to like, it, it, it's obviously going to make you be like, feel upset and to grieve, but it's also going to force you to think. 

[01:16:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:16:55] Toliy: And that's an uncontrollable thing because like, the, like part of the, um, like, like it's almost like if you look at it, especially when it's tied to others, it's almost like a, um.

[01:17:10] Not, not like chain of command, but it's a whole process that, that's why like, like in most cases when like death happens to somebody doesn't only affect like, I mean, the person dying is dead. Like they're, they're, they're gone. Yeah. Right. They're, they're actually prob probably the least effect, like Yeah.

[01:17:26] Affected, right? Yeah. It's usually people around them. And, um, like what, like the feelings that you're gonna fa like, feel and face and the, like, the emotions, like everything that's gonna ha happen as a result of it is something that like,

[01:17:47] it's gonna follow you where, wherever you go, and it's ultimately gonna be something that you deserve. It's kind of like, I mean, it sounds bad, but it's like, like, um, like the most regretful person is deserving of feeling the worst when something happens when you feel regret, right? Yeah. Just like the person who.

[01:18:06] Lives in accordance of the truth, who has, doesn't have regret, is also bound to experience like the lack of regret, for example, a gratefulness or happiness or, yeah. Like all that. Right. So it's almost like you're going to get, like, you're, you're gonna get the buildup of everything that you've done or, or, or haven't done.

[01:18:26] Oh, lots of times it's haven't done at that time. That's a very good point. You know, and, and, and sometimes you like the lack of, what you don't do is actually like, like at, at that time it's gonna be like the showing of what you've actually done. 

[01:18:42] Mike: Yeah, yeah. Preparation for death. 

[01:18:47] Toliy: Yeah. Because all also, the, the fun new thing is that like, like the more serious that you take like yourself and like your problems and your actions and like the sooner you change yourself, the sooner you can change, um, like the world around you.

[01:19:06] Right. Yeah. And like the, like the relationships you have and the people you have around you, like Sure. You may like, like you're not gonna change them as fast as you change yourself, for example. Yeah. Right. Because you don't have a like that kind of control. Yeah. You know, um, but you are going to make an impact faster.

[01:19:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:19:24] Toliy: And the faster that you become that like elite person Yeah. The faster that everyone else can reap the benefits of it and like the more change that you can actually impact. 

[01:19:35] Mike: Yeah, 

[01:19:35] Toliy: I agree with that. 

[01:19:36] Mike: You know, 

[01:19:37] Toliy: I agree with that, Mike. 

[01:19:41] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:41] Eldar: How do you tie death to all this talk? 

[01:19:46] Mike: No, I don't know. I think I tied it like, um, earlier, like to, for myself at least.

[01:19:51] Mm-hmm. Like if you respect life, then you respect death, you know? 

[01:19:56] Yeah. 

[01:19:57] I agree. You respect life. You respect death. You don't respect life. Life. You're not gonna respect death. Yeah. Because again, it's like you never take ownership. Of your, of your like trajectory of your life. Yeah. And so how would you ever tra, how would you ever feel justified when you are on like a mm-hmm.

[01:20:16] On your deathbed or death is knocking on your door. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're just 

[01:20:22] Eldar: going for a ride. So would you say that the ultimate goal, our goal then is right, like maybe Buddhist say, oh, one of the biggest probably goals we can ask Chad, GPT, this or Gu, um, is understanding Im permanence for enlightenment or not, not understanding.

[01:20:44] Okay. Obviously understanding it, right, but then living in accordance to it. 

[01:20:48] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:49] Eldar: Right. If you know that everything is impermanent Right. You kind of rid yourself of a lot of 

[01:20:54] Toliy: attachments. Yeah. Yes. See, see, like, like I, I'm almost viewing it in the opposite way. Mm-hmm. I think that like. You, you should find whatever is permanent as fast as possible.

[01:21:08] Because like, what, what, what's happening is that like you're, most people are like attaching themselves to impermanent things thinking that they're permanent. 

[01:21:19] Eldar: Well, yeah. Oh, sure. What you're saying is the opposite, right? Like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like, like 

[01:21:23] Toliy: the only thing permanent is impermanent is the truth, for example.

[01:21:26] Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Right. Which is impermanence. So, so if you attach yourself to something permanent, actually permanent that lives forever. Yeah. Eternal. Like why, first off, why would you not want to? Right? Yeah. Like you're, you're a guaranteed on the, on the correct ride here, right? Yeah. If you're, attach yourself to truth with Mr.

[01:21:42] G and then you don't have any of this impermanence and like these kind of like, 'cause like what, what happens is that you, you have the opposite effect of thinking that things are, are permanent. Yeah. Like the way that you move and the way that you attach yourself mm-hmm. To two things, but they're, you're attaching yourself to the wrong things and if you attach yourself to the right things that are actual permanent things Yeah.

[01:22:02] Than like. You're guaranteed to live a good life because like the problem is totally, the 

[01:22:07] Eldar: problem is totally is the, the, the, the, the use of language that you are using. Attach yourself to the truth. I'm not sure if that's really possible. Mm. I'm not sure if you can attach yourself to the truth. 

[01:22:18] Toliy: Yeah. I'm, yeah.

[01:22:19] I'm sure you know what I'm saying. Yeah. I'm not sure what the right word is, but like Yeah. Like, yeah. Focus, maybe tune, 

[01:22:24] Eldar: tune in, I don't know. Tune in or focus or you Yeah. 

[01:22:25] Toliy: Like live side by side with, with the Yeah, with the truth. Because like the, the truth's gonna be going the right way. So if you could figure out whichever way that it's goings it, it's going, try to go there.

[01:22:35] Go there. Right. Yeah. Like that, that, that's the right way. I agree with you. And then all of those good things about life, like all things then become for you, like inherently good. Like everything is good there. There is no bad. Well, the 

[01:22:48] Eldar: ultimately right. Our ultimate goal, if we're talking about death, death has to be seen as very good.

[01:22:54] Mm-hmm. That's what he's saying. Like, if death is part of life, 

[01:22:58] Toliy: well see this is, well, you, you can't see death as a good thing. Like that concept is like, no, but like, it's very difficult. What? But like for now y for, for now, yes. You're living, you living in accordance with the truth and understanding those concepts.

[01:23:12] Like death becomes part of life and, and you respect that. And you respect it. And like you, you, you, you don't have to like convince yourself, I guess, like Yeah. Like, you know, like that Yeah. That it's a good thing or it's a bad thing or it's a neutral thing. It it, yeah, yeah, yeah. It just is. Yeah. Maybe, 

[01:23:28] Mike: maybe it's like the, maybe it's process thing where it's a byproduct of it.

[01:23:34] Like, uh, a lot of times people like set goals, right? Like, one thing came to mind, it's to lose weight, you know, people mm-hmm. Set this goal of losing weight, but. They don't set it like for, for like the right reasons and they don't set it to do it the right way. Mm-hmm. So if you actually do the things that are required, like to be smart about what you eat, right, be healthy, make healthy choices, the byproduct is you're gonna lose weight, right?

[01:24:04] Mm-hmm. And um, and if you live like in according to truth, you are gonna have a, like a byproduct is gonna be a good life, but also a good death, I guess. You know, like Yeah. You know? 

[01:24:18] Eldar: Yeah, I think so. I think that's how it's supposed to be. Yeah. For then it's, you're not gonna feel like, oh, what the fuck? 

[01:24:24] Mike: Yeah, yeah.

[01:24:24] I'm not ready to die. Or just So wasn't 

[01:24:27] Eldar: trembling right? No, he wasn't like sitting there like, oh shit. Or maybe like, you know, whoever else that died. Like they weren't in those feelings or those emotions where it's like, ah, what the fuck? You know, like, ah, he took it gracefully. Yeah. Took it on the chin and that's it.

[01:24:41] Mm-hmm. You know? And obviously everyone I think, wants to go have those types of feelings and go that way. Yeah. You know? Absolutely. Which is, which is like, yeah. Something to, to look forward to or to strive for if you actually, you know, living in accordance, like you said, the truth and life and then death is just hit another stage.

[01:25:01] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:02] Eldar: It's part of the gig. Yeah. 

[01:25:04] Mike: You know. All right. 

[01:25:06] Eldar: What are we final thoughts on this topic? 

[01:25:10] Mike: Did we say death is dead? Death Death is dead. 

[01:25:14] Toliy: Totally. Yeah. I mean, I don't really have anything I don't think to it to like add, add. Yeah. I think we fucking killed it. I think we killed it. I think we fucking killed it guys.

[01:25:24] Eldar: Death is dead. Yeah. Yeah. I think, no, I think we said a lot of good stuff. I think we definitely gave it a little, kicked it in the balls here. I'll 

[01:25:31] Toliy: tell you one thing. 

[01:25:31] Mike: Okay. 

[01:25:32] Toliy: Right. Um, and, and, and, and I'll, uh, because you're, you're familiar with doing this many, many times, right? Mm-hmm. When, when, when there's like a, a lemon.

[01:25:47] Right. And, and, and like, let's just say the way that you eat an el, like the, the way that you eat a lemon or that you go about having a, a lemon. Mm-hmm. Do you feel bad when you throw whatever's remaining away? No. No, because you, you, you, you took that lemon deep, right? Like you Oh yeah. I did take it deep.

[01:26:07] You got the most out of it. Yes. Right? Yes. Um, you don't feel bad about throwing it 

[01:26:12] Eldar: up. If anybody wants to see me eat a lemon, subscribe to the Paton, subscribe to the Patreon, that doesn't exist. 

[01:26:18] Toliy: Okay. But if you do let us know. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we got you right. Like you don't feel a type of way about doing it.

[01:26:24] No. Right. But if I were to tell right now, like Harris to, uh, squeeze out this lemon and just throw out the rest mm-hmm. And you were to see what he threw away 

[01:26:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:26:33] Toliy: Would it be very different than what you throw away? For sure. Right. So I think that, like, that, that's almost what happened when you live.

[01:26:40] Life to the fullest and you do things right. Mm-hmm. You don't feel bad throwing away that lemon or when that, when that lemon. Wow. I like that. Right. I like that. That's a very good way to, to put it. But like, like someone who is like, does it in like an amateur way or like Yeah. Doesn't do it correctly.

[01:26:54] You're like, yo, he's throwing away ha. Half the thing. Right. Or like, you know, like Yeah. Um, because didn't get anything out of 

[01:27:01] Eldar: it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, all right. Those are, I'm gonna roll with toll's. Final thoughts. I'm gonna say try to do your best and squeeze everything you can out of life. 

[01:27:12] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:27:12] Eldar: So when the shit hits the fan and you're ready to part with it, you have no regrets.

[01:27:17] Yeah. That was good. Thank you. Toley. 

[01:27:20] Mike: Yeah.