183. The Fairness Fallacy: Why Empowerment Beats Victimhood

When did we as people surrender ourselves to the external world?

Dive into a raw, unfiltered discussion on fairness, corruption, and the boiling anger in today’s world. Toliy, Mike, Eldar, and Katherine unpack why people feel cheated by the system, how social media fuels tribal rage, and whether empowerment can break the cycle of injustice. From real-world scandals to personal accountability, this episode challenges you to rethink what’s fair—and what’s just reality.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction: The Unfair Game of Life
• 3:57 Radical Reactions to Injustice
• 10:11 The Role of Media and Misinformation
• 15:38 The Importance of Critical Thinking
• 42:32 Constitution and Modern Challenges
• 1:05:10 The Balance of Justice
• 1:15:58 Divisive Conversations and Public Perception
• 1:28:27 Youth Influence and Political Engagement
• 1:41:14 Final Thoughts and Conclusion

Transcript

[00:00:00] Toliy: On this week's episode, once you find out that something's not fair, then you no longer want to like, I guess, playing the game that you're playing in. So you almost feel like, what's the point in doing any of this? And then that's probably where you get to a point where you actually lash out. So you feel that that like corruption does exist and it's totally fair in the world that we 

[00:00:18] Mike: live in?

[00:00:18] Yes. 

[00:00:18] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:00:19] Mike: That's because like whatever's happening in the world is a representation of the people. 

[00:00:25] Eldar: Well, our space or our podcast is becoming more and more the most relevant type of conversation that needs to be had. 

[00:00:32] Katherine: That's the most static. 

[00:00:33] Eldar: Ours. 

[00:00:34] Katherine: Yes. Yeah. How 

[00:00:34] Eldar: so? We have the answer.

[00:00:39] Alright guys, today's topic or the question I'd be like Mike wanted, right? It's around fairness, right? And the question is, when did we as people, okay? Surrender ourselves to the external world. Meaning at some point when we were born, maybe we were raised by our parents, right? Our parents used to say what the rhetoric is.

[00:01:07] You can be whatever you want to be, Johnny. Mm-hmm. You want to be an astronaut. You want to be a fireman. You can do it. 

[00:01:15] You know, just work hard, believe in your dreams and you'll get there. But you fast forward, 

[00:01:24] you come outta high school, come outta college, you know, get a job, come into the real world. All of a sudden nothing's fair.

[00:01:33] Somebody's oppressing you, somebody's standing in the way of your dreams. So the question is, when do we lose our power? Why did we surrender our power to the external world? Hmm. What happens when does it happen that we're no longer in power to be able to navigate all in life? With that being said, totally, tell me some of the things that you're seeing about this.

[00:01:55] Toliy: Well, um, so what I'm seeing is that like, when there's like, you know, a, um, a world event or, uh, some, some, something happens, right? Or like. There's like talks about corruption, like, I don't know, in the government, in the workplace. Um, it's usually like a particular class of people. I don't know, like the, the middle class most likely, and like the poor class if we want to break it up.

[00:02:25] Right. Um, it seems to be that it's a lot tying down to like money. Um, like, like like people who are either like, you know, check to check or not happy with their situation or like poor, right? Um, they have this like, life is not fair kind of, uh, viewpoint that's stopping them from progressing or stopping them from, uh, improving and they feel very like first probably like probably at some point defeated.

[00:02:55] And then they also feel angry about the situation and now they just wanna vocalize their anger and. You know, some get radicalized to do radical things. Mm-hmm. Some people are like, you know, maybe on the border of that and then just like, you know, just, just like feel that way, but not carrying it out. Um, some people are just like the, uh, speakers who just kind of like will go online and talk, like, talk about it and maybe like act a bit nasty to others in, in, in real life.

[00:03:26] Right. Where they have this like, um, outwardly anger. Yeah. Yeah. They have this anger and then they're also like paralyzed in their life because like, once you find out that something's not fair, then you no longer want to like, I guess playing the game that you're playing in. You, you, you feel the game's not fair.

[00:03:46] So you almost, so you almost feel like, what's the point? Mm. Okay. Um, what, what's the point in doing any of this? And then that's probably where you get to a point where you actually lash out or like you act a particular way. And, um, like the, the recent event was like. The assassination of, of a, of a Charlie Kirk.

[00:04:04] Right. Who was a, uh, out outspoken, like is left wing right? Or, or 

[00:04:10] Right, right, 

[00:04:10] right wing. Right wing, right wing, right. Uh, out outspoken right wing person. And, um, in the alleged text messages between the killer and the person that, that he, um, was blowing. He, he, he's, yeah, he, he's, he, he's speaking to right there.

[00:04:29] There's their significant other, whoever. Right. He uses a very particular phrase. I asked him, um, why the killer said, why did I do it, question mark? And the person said, yeah. And the killer said, I had enough of this hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. 

[00:04:47] Hmm. Right. 

[00:04:49] So that, that last phrase, like he, he first said he's had enough.

[00:04:53] Mm-hmm. And second off, he basically said. There's like, um, like you can't negotiate it. Which, which I think he's saying that like there's no, like, no coming back from this. Yeah. There, there's no like, well, well no, like, there's no like, changing this person's views or changing, like this ideology. So you gotta try it to take it out.

[00:05:11] Mm. You know, because you don't feel like there's a way to, to discuss it, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and I feel like people get this way and like the, um, like the early precursors of it, uh, is, is I think getting challenged in life and then not being able to like, have the discussion or feeling a particular way about that, that challenge.

[00:05:36] And then, like, if that happens like a good amount of times, well now you're in the, in the bucket of being upset and now like your social media and the content that you absorb like, um, is also similar bucket. People that feel a particular way. Now you have this like, like this pot that's brewing of all these people that feel this way and, and, and go only towards this one belief.

[00:06:01] And after a while if um, life's not good and you're clearly not happy and you feel out of place and you feel like hated on, right, and you don't understand like right from wrong, you don't understand just like in general like life math, right? Yeah. Some people are gonna get to the boiling point and, and do something like this and that this is probably like the, not, not the first of many 'cause there's already been a bunch of things that happen.

[00:06:29] But this is just gonna continue on until fundamental change happens in the way people learn and like if they actually get to a point where they can learn how to learn properly. Lots of times this topic of fairness to, to me it's not a topic of like whether things are fair or whether there is corruption or, or, or, or that I think the people who.

[00:06:50] Have this, um, bone to pick with fairness or like feel this kind of way, like the question to me here, that, that it's like, the bigger question is, are things not fair or are you just uninformed? Mm. Or do you not just understand, like, give an example. Yeah. Right. I'm sure there's people out there that are like, um, fucking Bill Gates.

[00:07:13] What API mean, or, or, or a fucking, uh, um, Jeff Bezos, right. What a piece of shit. He makes all this money and he pays no taxes. 

[00:07:22] Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:23] There are people in the lower, for example, in middle class and maybe even in a higher class, that feel poorly once they hear that, like, Hey, this person paid no taxes. Right.

[00:07:32] Or This person paid less than me. Right. Or this person paid very little. Right. Or someone like, I think it was Bon Jovi who put bees on his property. Right. Or who, who, who was that in New Jersey? Oh, they, they claim it as a 

[00:07:46] Katherine: farm and they don't 

[00:07:46] Toliy: pay. The same property tax. They have a huge, crazy, you know, maybe like a thousand acre or like whatever cra crazy property.

[00:07:55] Mm-hmm. And they pay the taxes of somebody that has like little plot. Mm-hmm. Right. Uh, is that unfair or do you just not know the rules of things? Do you just not know how things work? So, um, to me, I find it more times than not probably when like, is, is are those feelings right? Is Jeff Bezos a piece of shit?

[00:08:15] Is he an asshole? Is he like a terror to society or does he just know more than you? Or does he just, or, or did he just make enough money to put himself in a position where he has proper employees and proper pe people surrounding him to do proper things? Um, yeah, if you're someone that's, um, in like the poor middle class, you may not have the best accountants.

[00:08:39] You may not be writing the right things off. You may not be able to navigate things properly. You may be overpaying on things. Subscriptions, produce, clothing, whatever it's Right. Uh, are, are those more informed people supposed to look at you and be like, what a dumb ass, what a useless person in society.

[00:08:57] Like he couldn't even educate himself to know this. 

[00:09:00] Hmm. 

[00:09:00] Right? Like, is is, is that the other way around? Um, well, why, like, why are you a mechanic? Why, why couldn't you find the cure to cancer? 

[00:09:08] Hmm. 

[00:09:09] Are you a piece of shit for not doing that? 

[00:09:12] Hmm. 

[00:09:12] Right. Um, so o oftentimes when, when I hear this ru rhetoric around corruption or fairness and, and like, do I agree?

[00:09:22] Like, uh, I don't know. Is everything totally fair? Like, like, and some things that definitely are corruption, there definitely is like lying and cheating and stealing, right? Definitely is favoritism. There definitely is a ne like a nepotism, right? That definitely exists. But like, if you wanna live a good life, then you should know that.

[00:09:45] And put yourself in a position where you can navigate your life and the people around you in a correct way, so that you are not like growing up as this angry, uninformed person that just cries about unfairness or just cries about corruption or that like, the government is this, or like corporations are that, or like they steal money or like they charge X amount for this or that.

[00:10:10] Right. You know? Yeah. 

[00:10:11] Eldar: As I'm 

[00:10:11] Toliy: listening to 

[00:10:11] Eldar: you, I'm trying to formulate, uh, a devil's advocate. Advocate, be, be a devil's advocate here and formulate arguments to push back. Right. It's hard for me to do that. Uh, first of all, I think that there's a lot of good points that you said, but to be able to say, kind of be on that side of like, well, yeah, but you know, Jeff Bezos had privilege.

[00:10:32] You know, he went to the right schools, he grew up in the right neighborhood, he had the right parents, and I didn't, you know, I grew up in the ghetto. You know, I didn't go to the right school and I, I couldn't find out that, you know, if I bought this plot of land versus this one and the tax is different and stuff like that, I ju I had to work nine to five, no, not even nine to 10:00 PM you know, like, I'm trying to play a devil's advocate where it's like, some people will say and look at it, it's like there's circumstances or how they were brought up.

[00:11:01] They didn't get the same playing field. 

[00:11:03] Toliy: Okay. And, and, and like, yeah, I agree that like, that could be a thing. Now does that mean that like. Again, like ge, did Jeff Bezos like cut you in line to get better parents or something? Or get like a better scenario where like, like he was just born in one place. You were born in a different place.

[00:11:19] But then my argument to that is that have there not been people in your circumstance that have made it out? Like it's true? Uh, is, uh, did, did like 50 cent, for example, grow up in that, in like a, like did he go to Harvard and mm-hmm. Grew up in this like millionaire like, uh, thing Or was he like selling crack and like rapping in the streets and like robbing people and like thugging?

[00:11:41] Yeah. Like where, where was he and what happened to him, for example? So if you told me there's, there's outliers, you know, but then you 

[00:11:47] Eldar: probably, if you look at its statistically right, you probably will see that there's definitely, you know, making it out to be a famous rapper or an NBA star is very small, you know, fraction of a percentage probably for those individuals, even though Yes, hundred percent.

[00:12:01] There's definitely, but 

[00:12:01] Toliy: there's also a small fraction of the jev. Azo is, and that's true those people too. Yeah. E even small, smaller than the athletes. Yeah. You know, um, or, or like whoever. But like, yeah, like if you're gonna sit here and be upset because of the circumstance that you were born into, um, then like, yeah, I know that like you don't know any better, obviously, like you're gonna act in that kind of way.

[00:12:27] But, um, yeah, eventually like the parents who are birthing these, um, children and the education system and just society as a whole, if there's not fundamental change about that, then like. You're gonna have people that realize that like shit's fucked up and then they're just gonna stay angry for the rest of their lives.

[00:12:47] Uh, like be angry to others and make other, other people's lives worse. And then they're gonna also birth more people who are also angry and then just like continue this, um, cycle. 

[00:12:59] Eldar: So you almost prophesizing here saying that Charlie Kirk is not a one-off incident here. Based on everything that you've pointed out, that individuals who are growing up saying that it's not fair or they can't find a way to empower themselves, they're gonna continue to grow angry, and sooner or later there's gonna be lashing out and no sense of of forms.

[00:13:19] Toliy: Well, well yeah. Like for example, like, you know, like, uh, they, they see the president do that, for example, like someone who's like the most famous person probably in like the country and, and maybe even the world right now, right? 

[00:13:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:31] Toliy: Like who, who's more famous and in the news and like seen than like him, right?

[00:13:37] See him just like, not like what someone said, and then like take them off air, for example, or like mm-hmm. Find ways to like influence that. Yeah. Right. Like the opposite side. It just creates a more anger Yeah. Towards the opposite side. And the opposite side's gonna want to continue doing stuff like this because they're gonna be like, Hey, like this is the only way that this side learns.

[00:13:56] Eldar: We're gonna be heard, we're gonna be heard. Heard. Yeah. 

[00:13:58] Toliy: Right. And that, and that's the realities that a lot of people are heard right now when radical shit happens. That that's why they call it like, extreme and radical, because they're like, it's almost like an insinuation that like, hey, we're not supposed to go go there, but we have to, the way that the world reacts is that it's a super necessary thing to get somebody's attention nowadays.

[00:14:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:14:19] Toliy: You know, so Yeah. So like yeah, like a, after the thing that happened to, to like the, the assassination of, of, uh, Charlie Kirk, um, there's all these like chat rooms on X and like stuff like that talking about this and then like, yeah, I just hear this like. Con continuous talk of corruption and not fairness and anger that just like bruise and now like, I see what's happening.

[00:14:44] Like, you, you have a bunch of like non reasonable people now that are like probably forever gonna be not, not, not reasonable because like, they're so angry. They're, they're so angry with like, how things are that, um, that they're paralyzed. They, they got to that point where they feel like there's no point of this.

[00:15:04] Like, like, this is not fair. They don't, they don't wanna play the 

[00:15:06] Eldar: game. 

[00:15:07] Toliy: Yeah. They don't wanna, like, who wants to play the game where it's not, that's fair. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Once you find out that something's not fair, how do you react to it? Do you want to continue participating? 

[00:15:16] Eldar: Yeah. If the game is rigged call.

[00:15:18] Yeah. For, 

[00:15:19] Toliy: for example, right? Yeah. Now maybe the people who are more informed, they, they look at the other people who are like, Hey, like these people are just dumb. 

[00:15:27] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:27] Toliy: Right? Like, if they actually knew what was going on and how, how things work, they wouldn't be feeling these kinds of ways. Or, or, or like, stuff like that, you know?

[00:15:38] Um, so yeah, that, that was my, my main problem is that, is that, like, I, I, I feel the anger of it, and I feel how, like, it doesn't create like, we're like the way that society is. It's not brewing moral, like moral and ethical and like good people. Mm-hmm. It's like on both sides of the coin, it's brewing angry people and like, um, so 

[00:16:01] Eldar: let 

[00:16:01] Toliy: me 

[00:16:01] Eldar: ask you this question then.

[00:16:03] Where the, when, where do you think that the empowerment gets stripped away? Or when does empowerment never gets installed? Well, at what point? 

[00:16:10] Toliy: Um, so you're only, like, when you're young, you're, uh, ignorant. Mm-hmm. Let's just call it that. They're like, you, you don't know yet. You're just operating on like, natural instincts and like, just like, kind of like, um, yeah.

[00:16:27] Like that, you know? 

[00:16:28] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:29] Toliy: And, um. Once you get to like it, like, like, like the way I'm looking at, it's that like your empowerment trips, the point at the moment where you, where you almost realize that, that, that there is empowerment, that there is powerment empowerment. 

[00:16:45] Katherine: I don't think empowerment is a word we take it.

[00:16:48] Yeah. But you know what I'm talking about. I like it though. Yeah. 

[00:16:51] Toliy: Like when, when you're young and ignorant, right? Like, you don't even know this world and you don't even know about this kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. Once you understand that it exists, I think that that's the moment where it gets tripped. How, um, you, you mean when the person 

[00:17:05] Eldar: realizes that there is empowerment?

[00:17:06] 'cause the 

[00:17:06] Toliy: empowerment was, the original empowerment was happening from wa was, was happening from ignorance from not knowing any better or like, not like for like, it, it, it was happening just from like. Natural, like humanness, right? Of just like, oh, you mean just like ignorance is bliss? Yeah. It was like more ignorance.

[00:17:24] Yeah. And then once you get like a taste of the world and how things are, as soon as you start to understand or realize those things, or you start to get, like you don't get your way or you get upset or you get offended. That is the. Beginning point of, of lack of empowerment. Okay. But like, um, you, you, you, you never had real empowerment.

[00:17:45] Mm-hmm. That, that's what I'm saying is that like you never had real knowledge and fundamental understanding, and then when you came into the world with no tools, the world said, fuck you, you're not getting shit. When, when you're really young. You don't get it in that kind of way. You don't get it.

[00:17:59] Especially in the uglier way. Yeah. Right. You get the, Hey, it's okay. It's okay. Yeah. You could be anything you want in the world could be anything you want. Shoot for the stars. Dream big. Yeah. Right. When you get older, it's more like, shut the fuck up and do your job. You gotta work and stop complaining.

[00:18:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:12] Toliy: Right. 

[00:18:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:13] Toliy: That, that's more like, it's like an opposite attitude where like people have more like mercy Yeah. On, on young kids, for example. Yes. But when you're adult and like developing, once you're an adult, that's it. Right. That's it. That's also why the law is set up the way that, that it's, mm-hmm.

[00:18:27] You do something when you're over 18. Yeah. Versus under 18, you get tried se separate ways why? 

[00:18:33] Eldar: Yeah. '

[00:18:34] Toliy: cause you're a kid 

[00:18:35] Eldar: you didn't know 

[00:18:35] Toliy: any better, therefore you don't know any better and you don't deserve as bad of a punishment as an adult. Yeah. For, for example. 

[00:18:40] Eldar: Yeah. It's true juvenile. Yeah. 

[00:18:42] Toliy: Right. Um, you get like way more chances.

[00:18:45] Way, way more everything. Mm-hmm. You know? So, um, yeah, like when, like the, the, uh, the, the child portion of you is operating out of ignorance where once you get into the world, you never had that empowerment to begin with. There was no empowerment. 

[00:19:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:19:02] Toliy: So it like the way that the world is right now, there, there is no built in.

[00:19:07] You have empowerment. 

[00:19:09] Eldar: Well, no, I mean, you can't say, uh, you know, I'm pretty sure there's some schools that kind of teach that or try to instill that kind of reasoning, critical thinking of people. Some parents are probably trying to prepare their their kids into for the real world, right? It's, it's always the conversations, right?

[00:19:23] You go to the guidance counselor, well, what do you want to be in five years, Johnny? You know what I mean? What do you want to be is your career and stuff like that. And slowly they start instilling that. Like, okay, if you wanna do this, you gotta do this, you gotta do that. Yeah. But not willing. Are you serious about it?

[00:19:35] They're 

[00:19:35] Toliy: not willing to tell you like the ugly part of it, for example. Mm-hmm. Because they have to be PC and they have to be like, you know mm-hmm. You can't talk to a kid and tell 'em like, 

[00:19:43] Eldar: Hey, like, you have two left feet. 

[00:19:45] Toliy: Yeah. Like, hey, like 

[00:19:45] Eldar: you're never gonna be a baseball player. 

[00:19:47] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:19:47] Eldar: Enough, right? 

[00:19:48] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:19:48] Enough. Yeah. 

[00:19:48] Katherine: You'll have the parents coming after you get you fired. Yeah. 

[00:19:51] Toliy: District's like, why'd you talk to him like that? Yeah. Like, that was possible. Yeah. Santa Claus still exists. What the fuck? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So like, um, he came 

[00:19:58] Eldar: home crying. 

[00:19:59] Toliy: Yeah. Like, I, I like, and, and like parents can definitely try really hard right now, but I think the, the, uh, reality realities that like they have.

[00:20:08] Like, there's, there's no separation between like, okay. Like there's that world in this, in this world. Like with social media, you're always in the world, like at all times. You're online, always. There's no more offline anymore. Yeah. You, you, you're never away from the, the keyboard, you know? That's like, that's true.

[00:20:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:20:23] Toliy: You're just marked as all of of Oh, flying. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like, like, you know, remember like back in the day in like a, a OL when you were talking with people, chatting, then that person goes offline. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's dead Now, who's not there? No, they're they're always online. They're always online.

[00:20:38] And the social media is always online and it'll always consume. Like, can I, can I 

[00:20:43] Katherine: add something? 

[00:20:44] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I 

[00:20:45] Katherine: not, not like to jump on what you just said, that like, you're always online. You are like, we are constantly bombarded with everyone's opinions at all times. You know, their, their take on politics or what's going on, or this guy's death or, you know, whatever.

[00:21:05] Um. I think it's really also hard to, for, for people to also, like, is everyone getting the right information from the right sources or are we just, um, believing everything that we're seeing or adapting, adapting to other people's, like perception or opinions on these things, you know? Correct. Like there's so many people.

[00:21:30] There's, there's, it's, we're oversaturated with opinions and all types of things and people are watching, they're consuming all of this and they are basing their I ideas and, and their opinions on, on this, on these people. 

[00:21:47] Toliy: That's also like, like, I think part of like the way that people are taught right now, like, you're not first taught how to think.

[00:21:53] You're, you're, you're first taught to think. 

[00:21:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:55] Toliy: And then you have to pick up the pieces la later and realize that like, yeah, hey, this is just a wrong way about eval. Like Yeah. Like for example, do you learn how to make proper decisions first or do you make decisions first? 

[00:22:07] Katherine: Yeah. That's interesting. You 

[00:22:08] Toliy: always make like decisions first.

[00:22:10] Yeah. And then, and then you need to figure out how to make PR for decisions. Yeah. And, 

[00:22:14] Katherine: and are, are people putting enough value on this? Or they just, you know, think about how distracted we are in life. You go through school, then you're, then you become an age where you have to become an adult, and now it's just like work and this and that.

[00:22:28] And then maybe parenting. Are people even like taking enough time to realize like, okay, maybe I need a proper education on my beliefs, on my politics, on, on all these things. 

[00:22:40] Toliy: Well, like kids know, and, and like, you can't expect them to know that because like, I don't think they know how. The world is and how they operate.

[00:22:48] They all, everyone gets pretty much that like rude awakening or everyone gets like Yeah. Hit by a bus. Like, like buy it, right? Yeah. So it's not like kids are like, Hey, like I need to like, put myself in this position so that I learn how to do this. Yeah. Or like that the, the, like there's rare times, for example, like in sports, like you have like really, um, like high level like, uh, like, um, talents and like, do, do they like, like some of them will talk in that kind of way where like they've seen what that person did in the past or like how they carry themselves mm-hmm.

[00:23:23] And how they go about things and like they're able to do that. And like, um, 1, 1, 1 of the people I've actually seen who, who does that and who doesn't really, I've never even even seen like misstep and is a superstar, is like there, there's a Yankees player called Aaron. Aaron Judge. Mm-hmm. Right. And he's the captain.

[00:23:41] Before him was captain. Was Derek Jeter? He 

[00:23:43] Eldar: looked up to Derek Jeter. Well, yeah. Yeah, because I remember Derek Jeter was like a high Yeah. 

[00:23:47] Toliy: And Derek Jeter was always famous for no scandals, no things with girls. Yeah. Playing record. Even though like he got crazy amount of girls, he was like always a player.

[00:23:57] Mm-hmm. He only married when he was like, uh, like after like retirement. Mm-hmm. You know, like already when he was like 40 or so. Mm-hmm. And like he was a captain of the New York Yankees, which was like a crazy, I mean, this is a crazy title now. Mm-hmm. But even then it was even more and like, um, but he also talked to the media particular way.

[00:24:16] He knew that like, like New York media in general, some players get like traded here or like. Drafted here, and they can't take it. And they clearly like, will like, fold, fold under pressure because like, they're like ruthless animals. Like they're trying to like shit on you. They're trying to like, yeah, 

[00:24:31] Eldar: yeah, yeah.

[00:24:31] Bait 

[00:24:32] Toliy: you. Like, you know, like they're, they're mm-hmm. They're like the Ariel Wanis. Mm-hmm. Mo most of them. They're gonna ask you those dirty questions. Questions and like 

[00:24:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:39] Toliy: Go like, like, like take, take that kind of approach. He learned from Derek Jeter and he, he said this many times that mm-hmm. That like he, he saw exactly how he carried himself.

[00:24:48] Yeah. And like, you could see him in any interview over a crazy, lost mistakes, whatever. He's always the same way, even keel. He knows exactly what he's into. Yeah. He knows exactly the people that are speaking to them. Yeah. Why they're asking these questions, how they're asking them. Yeah. And you'll never see him like, ever explode outta of character.

[00:25:05] Yeah. Ever. I've never seen him that one time. Wow. You know? Yeah. And like he's consistent with it. That's And he learned from the previous captain. Yeah. How he did it. Then there's other players that are like completely opposite. They're very fiery. They're very, like, they get triggered. Yeah. They get, you know, they'll, they'll, they always push reporter and stuff like that.

[00:25:21] Like Yeah. They'll, they'll, they'll do crazy shit. 

[00:25:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:24] Toliy: And like, people don't understand how much spotlight is on you versus like, if you play in South Dakota, you're not being covered the same way as a, as like a New York athlete. 

[00:25:31] Eldar: Yeah. But 

[00:25:32] Toliy: then you're also not getting the credit the same way either. 

[00:25:34] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:25:34] Toliy: You know, so, um, yeah, like in, in, in sports sometimes you see those people learn from those people where like, they're like, Hey, like, yeah, this person was the number one pick overall. Like, I spoke to him and he told me how to navigate this. Yeah. Maybe they have people around them to help them. Right. But, um, yeah, I'm not sure how many people I actually go about that, especially the young kids who can see that vision of like, they have a big responsibility on their shoulders.

[00:26:01] They actually go about it in the right way, and they actually do, do, do, do things right. 

[00:26:06] Eldar: Yeah. I I definitely don't own the statistics, obviously behind it at all. Everything that's going on in the world, you know, obviously in social media based on what we're at least scanning, right? We see that the world's kind of in a place of like, like you said, in a little bit of turmoil or a lot of turmoil, you know, but, you know, it's not every day obviously, you know, but the world still goes on.

[00:26:27] Toliy: Well, the, the world goes on, but there is the turmoil ev every day just kind of gets lost in like the bus because it's also normalized by those people. 

[00:26:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:37] Toliy: That like this turmoil and this like crazy relationship Yeah. Is is is normal. Yeah, 

[00:26:43] Katherine: yeah. No, for sure. Yeah. That, that kind of, yeah. That's normalized.

[00:26:46] Yeah. Like we, we, we all know people 

[00:26:48] Toliy: where like you, you, you hear what's going on in their life and you're like. Shit 

[00:26:53] Katherine: like mm-hmm. 

[00:26:53] Toliy: That's crazy. And to them, like, they're talking about it like, oh, like, yeah, 

[00:26:56] Katherine: I think drama's normal now. 

[00:26:58] Toliy: Whatever. Right. You know, 

[00:26:59] Katherine: people Yeah. We, we almost want it, you know, look at even like in, in, in reality shows or shows in general, like they will always like drama wins over anything because people are drawn to it.

[00:27:11] People like it. People like when people get into fights Yeah. Or arguments. Like that's just like this's what the public wants. Yeah. 

[00:27:19] Eldar: Yeah. That's where we're at. Well, is there, is 

[00:27:21] Toliy: there a balance in the world? Is there balance? 

[00:27:23] Katherine: I think so. Yeah. 

[00:27:24] Toliy: Well, I think there, there's a balance, but I think that there's, there it's, it's like showing more and more that like, it's being tipped, tipped over to one place, which is why you have more and more anger and more and more ra radical things like, like happening.

[00:27:40] I think it's being slowly tipped in the direction, which based on how things are going or is probably super, super necessary. Yeah. For. If that's go down how people want to learn or that, that's how change has to happen. Like if you need to fuck everything up to learn, then like I think that's, that's what it's, I think that's 

[00:28:00] Eldar: a very good point what you just said about if that's the way that people have to learn, right?

[00:28:04] If Charlie Kirk is, uh, assassination is that's the way you wake up and go to church and try to get closer to Jesus as just say, if that's being the, your truth or your path, then it's like you need more of that. That's what totally saying, right. Or you like, it's inevitable almost. Right? If you so des synthesized to the world or to like what's actually going on inside your own kingdom, inside your own mind that you're just operating out of anger, out of this not empowerment and stuff like that.

[00:28:35] You almost need these types of events where it's like these cataclysmic events that happen, you know, 

[00:28:41] Toliy: eruptions order, fucking 

[00:28:43] Eldar: learn 

[00:28:44] Toliy: how many people that are affected by politics, like where they're actually like. Somewhat in it or they somehow like, have these opinions about it. What percent of people actually understand the policies?

[00:28:56] Yeah. I don't think many. No. Just gimme a number outta how many actually understand policies actually understand or like local? Yeah, like local 1% to to local. Yeah. Like you take a person who's a typical, like left winger, a typical right. Winger, right? Yeah. How many of them are gonna actually be able to tell you, like, Hey, could you tell me like, uh, the right wing, uh, opinion on like, uh, climate and like how they go about borders and how they go about abortion or this or that.

[00:29:22] Like, do they understand how all those concepts work? Do they understand like the difference in the average person? No. No. But they're so impacted by it. Yeah. And they have such a strong opinion on it. 

[00:29:32] Eldar: Yeah. I remember you even mentioned that how your sister was reacting to certain things. She doesn't know shit from shit, but she's reacting to it.

[00:29:39] Katherine: Well guess. Well, because it's a cool thing. Guess that's what it is. It's a cool thing. Everyone is just reacting so that, so that to all the stuff that's going on. Okay. 'cause we have to admit there's a lot going on. Sure. And now we are connected by social media, so you know what's going on here, you know what's going on in Israel, you know what's going on in Ukraine.

[00:29:55] It is constant and it is all the time. Yeah. And it is appear, it's appealing to your fear centers to, to your anxieties. It's, I think it's just everyone is so compromised now because we're, but you see what totally saying that there's, there's so much happening. You know, sure 

[00:30:09] Eldar: this is all happening. But the truth of the matter is if you sit these people down and you have a conversation that 

[00:30:13] Katherine: they don't actually know what's going on, they don't 

[00:30:14] Eldar: understand what's going on at all.

[00:30:15] You 

[00:30:15] Katherine: know, I always find, I have this conversation with elder, a lot people get so like caught up in politics and most of the time I bet if you were, were to ask like if they are actually involved, like, like if you care so much, are you locally involved? Are you involved in your town? Po uh, politics. Are you going to local meetings?

[00:30:37] No. Most people are not actually even that far involved. I think. Do, do you think it has like some sort of like identity that they're attaching to it? Like, that's a very 

[00:30:47] Mike: good 

[00:30:47] Katherine: question. Like I care. Yeah. I, I really care. I have a, a, a, a, somebody that used to be my friend that is like super into like constantly always, you know, up to date with everything and, and you know, they will have like an almost like an emotional attachment to it.

[00:31:03] Yeah. Yeah. And what, like, do you think it, I think that to some degree, degree, do you think it separates you like you care for America or like what goes on world that think they carry carry 

[00:31:11] Eldar: a certain level of like this spirit of wanting to be a hero, wanting to be a stand up for something and be part of something.

[00:31:18] So it's like you almost part of a tribe at, at, at that point you got a friend makes you a 

[00:31:22] Katherine: part of something 

[00:31:23] Eldar: cool, you know? Okay. Who instead of taking care of his own fucking shit. Right. He always was part of a cause. Somewhere. Oh, this happened. Oh, I gotta go there. Oh, this happened. I gotta go there. Well, I guess 

[00:31:31] Katherine: that speaks to people's need to, to, to maybe want community or one, they're sense of they're lonely.

[00:31:37] Yeah. A sense they're lonely of, um, comp compan, they're lonely. 

[00:31:40] Eldar: But if you're shouting the same thing, the next person next to you is shouting. Yeah. You guys can hold hands now. 

[00:31:45] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. It's a very much a her mentality. 

[00:31:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:48] Mike: Yeah. I thought it was something else. Much worse. Much worse. Yeah. Well, what's worse than that?

[00:31:53] Coward. You are coward. You are coward. Instead of fixing your own shit, you go and you 

[00:31:58] Eldar: Yeah. To, to a degree. That's make 

[00:31:59] Mike: yourself feel like a good person by going out there and, yeah. Getting behind these causes. Yeah. Well, yeah. 

[00:32:04] Toliy: Yeah, 

[00:32:04] Mike: yeah. Yeah. 

[00:32:05] Toliy: I, I think it's part of that show. Yeah. That like Yeah. People don't feel part of something.

[00:32:08] And like, like just saying that you're, if you're just say that you're a Republican, for example, you're now automatic part, part of something. 

[00:32:18] Mike: Yeah. But if you say that like you're part, but that's, I don't, I'm, I don't think that's and the truth, it's not real. It works like dysfunctional things will work in this functional system.

[00:32:28] Toliy: No, but they, but but what I'm saying is that like, like, like they, they feel that way. Are they actually part of, I mean, like yeah. You, you could still see that they, they are somewhat part of now some like, like a, like a community. Mm-hmm. Right. But then it, like, it trickles down to, into like many com communities too of like, you know, Republican and mm-hmm.

[00:32:48] In Hackensack, for example, right. Republican Hackensack and white Republican, Hackensack White, and, I don't know, have a family, right? Mm-hmm. Like it keeps trickling down into like, like broader communities mm-hmm. That keep get going down to like smaller ones. Yeah. And yeah, like if you have the strong take, you, you have a belonging.

[00:33:09] Mike: You, you have like Yeah. The thing is, those things you just mentioned actually have no relevance when it comes to like your own individuality, your own happiness or identity. 

[00:33:17] Toliy: No, but those people are so, like, 

[00:33:18] Mike: they're, they're not even sold on it. They're not even in, that's the problem. 

[00:33:22] Toliy: Yeah. They're, 

[00:33:23] Mike: they're not even in that realm of even like, no, I know that's what's happening, but I think that's, that's the problem I thinking about it.

[00:33:28] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I just feel that like, once you have a strong take and someone else has a strong take, and they're a kind of both, like, like who, who rowing that like thing. Now they're together and now people can get behind something that again, like, 

[00:33:42] Eldar: listen. Yeah. I, I think that this, this, I guess maybe tribalism, tribal fucking whatever is what you said earlier, how do you learn if you need to learn the hard way where mm-hmm.

[00:33:54] You, your tribe has to go against another tribe. You have to hit butt heads and hit each other physically now. Mm-hmm. Maybe even kill each other. That's how you learn. And that's neither here or there. It's neither good or bad. Yeah. It's just what it is. Yeah. Because if you've, you know, like if you weren't educated properly, if you weren't empowered properly, right.

[00:34:14] You might need to get punched in the face. In order to like, oh, this hurts. Why did this happen? Why I'm on the side? What is happening? You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Until you start to think. Now the question is how big is your pain threshold? 

[00:34:30] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:31] Eldar: And how far are you willing to go until you say, you know what?

[00:34:36] I don't like this. This is like, ooh, this is icky. I'm not part of that. I don't wanna be part of that. Mm-hmm. Or are you one of those where you are willing to go all the way? And if you do, I mean, some people lose their life for it. 

[00:34:48] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. One, one that's part of the gig. One thing I wanted to to to add was that like I, I, I think you, you, you said this a while ago, maybe it was in a different discussion.

[00:34:58] Like you were saying something along the lines of like, be very careful as to like what you associate yourself with, or what you call yourself that you are, for example, yes. To what you stand 

[00:35:09] Eldar: on. Yeah. 

[00:35:09] Toliy: Right. Because like. Yeah. Like if you nitpick that thing, like do you agree with all of those things, for example, or like only some of them, or like this, but not that.

[00:35:18] Yeah. But if you say that like, like, like I grew up de definitely in like a demo, like a, like a Democrat household. 

[00:35:25] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:26] Toliy: And like, yeah, I, for a long time, I mean, I'm, I never voted. 

[00:35:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:29] Toliy: But I definitely like, 

[00:35:30] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:35:30] Toliy: Someone had asked me like, Hey, are you like, like, like are you a Republican or a Democrat?

[00:35:35] Mm-hmm. I'm a Democrat. 

[00:35:36] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:37] Toliy: Yeah. Like now obviously I have a different opinion completely. 

[00:35:40] Eldar: Yeah. Right. This doesn't mean you are a Republican 

[00:35:42] Toliy: either. No. 

[00:35:43] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:35:43] Toliy: No, absolutely not. Just for those who are fucking listening and 

[00:35:45] Eldar: trying to nitpick something. Yeah. And I'm definitely, 'cause we, we choose our fucking words carefully around here.

[00:35:48] Toliy: Yeah. Um, I'm definitely not, um, a Republican or, or a Democrat. Yeah. You know? 

[00:35:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:54] Toliy: Um, so, um. But people very like easily will side with something. They're like, oh, they stand with Russia, or they stand with Ukraine. Right? Yeah. Like, do you stand with everything that those things do? Do you stand with all of that?

[00:36:09] Eldar: Yeah. Israel stand with Israel. You stand 

[00:36:10] Toliy: with everything. Yeah. You're gonna find things then, then like once you do that and you associate that, like you under that bucket happens when some, something happens that is bad. Now you did something bad almost. 

[00:36:20] Eldar: Yeah. You're part of it. You're part of that. You represent that.

[00:36:22] You represent that. Yeah. You ran that flag. Yeah. 

[00:36:25] Katherine: I have like a statement or maybe like 

[00:36:27] Eldar: a question. 

[00:36:28] Katherine: A question. I'm not really sure. Um, this kind of relates to how I feel about politics. Like I don't, I don't really take a side 'cause I don't feel like represented by any which party. Right. But if you take a side, let's say whether it's liberal, democrat, republic, whatever, whatever it is, whatever it's stance on it, that kind of mean that, that would have to mean that you actually believe what is being presented to you in the media.

[00:36:54] Right. 

[00:36:56] Toliy: Well, for, for the most part, if the media represents the whole, 

[00:37:01] Katherine: like for me, it's like, how do we know that the media is correctly representing, you know, 

[00:37:08] Eldar: you don't, 

[00:37:09] Katherine: you don't, so you're standing for something that may or may not even be true, truthful, correct. Right. Like, we all know that, you know, certain news or news outlets are, are owned by certain people who have their own agendas and they may report what, what they're, what, what they wanna report, what they want you to see.

[00:37:30] So we might actually be so divided and it might be complete bullshit. Like it, it might be just like, like a complete farce, everything. They want you to, you know, there's one side telling you this and there's one side telling you that, but we don't actually know, like, the world might be run by really a, a powerful select few.

[00:37:50] Like, who knows? You know, like, how do we actually know this? 

[00:37:53] Toliy: I, I, I, I just realized the way also did make, 

[00:37:55] Katherine: does this make sense? No, no, no, it did. 

[00:37:59] Toliy: No, it did. Yeah. And like, I, I, I think most people yeah, they just learn through the me media. Mm-hmm. And like, no, do they actually know all these policies and everything?

[00:38:07] No. Mm-hmm. I, I think that when you get to the voting booth, right? Mm-hmm. They should just give, give you a multiple choice test mm-hmm. That you take and based on what answers you selected, the, the vote is automatic. Automatic, yeah. Yeah. Like, Hey, how do you feel about climate change? Do you feel like it should be this or this?

[00:38:24] Mm-hmm. Right. Waiting based on whatever you supply, based on whatever you fill out. Yeah. And then what, whatever that like whichever side wants to do to that. Mm-hmm. For example, then like it has to be that way. The 

[00:38:36] Eldar: problem is when when you finally get the vote and you put that person in, that person that said, I'm for it and I'm gonna do these things 

[00:38:42] Toliy: doesn't happen.

[00:38:43] Yeah, exactly. And then it should be that if they don't do do that, that side can't run again the next election. Yeah. But come on, skip one. What about also like 

[00:38:52] Katherine: you go and you vote, but then it's your electoral electoral college. Right? Also might be, yeah. Might be voting not how you want it. It just, I don't know.

[00:39:02] Eldar: You're just puzzled, aren't you? 

[00:39:03] Katherine: I'm puzzled. Well, that's why I don't have a stance on it, but I actually don't believe in it. Like I, I, I don't really believe in the whole 

[00:39:10] Eldar: politics. Yeah. I think that you have to be very careful if you choose a side. 

[00:39:13] Katherine: Yeah, I agree. You have to be very careful. And, you know, I never, 'cause there's 

[00:39:16] Eldar: consequences on both sides felt fully represented and to have sides in the first place Yeah.

[00:39:21] Is to almost create a very specific division, a very specific discrim and one, a 

[00:39:26] Katherine: division, but also an identity for yourself. 

[00:39:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:29] Katherine: That, yeah. 

[00:39:30] Eldar: That I'm over here gonna be defined by, but you gonna be under that impression that you gonna say certain things and is gonna, I'm gonna ride with you and you'll let your ideas influence mine.

[00:39:38] That's crazy. 

[00:39:39] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:39:40] The, the question is, I think on all of this, like, do you guys feel that like, I mean, people definitely talk about this word, like the system, right? Or like mm-hmm. The, uh, the, the, the system and all that. Right. Do you think it's almost like the way that things are designed is just to keep you in this in-between world of like, yeah, you put some attention towards like world issues and politics and like this and that, and then you just get like your days off and your holidays off, and then you just kind of like.

[00:40:10] Never actually think or do anything. No, I don't 

[00:40:13] Eldar: think so. I don't think this, I don't think the system is designed like just to keep people busy. No, I don't think so. And then they 

[00:40:17] Toliy: have birthdays 

[00:40:19] Eldar: and breaks. Yeah. I don't believe in any of that conspiracy theories that are like, aligned with that kind of show.

[00:40:23] Katherine: It, it, it makes you wonder a little because you're, you're thinking sometimes like, why weren't we taught certain things in school? Like why do they leave out sometimes? Like such fundamental things like, you know, fi how to control your finances, how to like, sign a lease or, you know, things that we'll actually need Yeah.

[00:40:40] When, when we graduate versus kind of just like, you know, we take these like series of tests and these series of classes that a lot of times most of us don't use in our life. Py in theory, once we Yeah. Like, like calculus. Unless I'm gonna become, unless I'm, I'm a scientific, uh, person that gonna go Yeah.

[00:40:59] Working for SpaceX. Yeah. Like going to Mars calculus. When did I ever use that again? Uh, some people don't even multiply after, after, you know, so. I, I, you know, it, I, you can't just say like, oh, you know, they're, they're making us part of the system, but maybe the system isn't fully working for all of us. You know, where we're noticing that we're focusing maybe on learning certain things that we are not, we're not using in life.

[00:41:22] So I, I, I, I see as that, as like a, a path to people saying like, oh, this system is not working, or the system is not, is not 

[00:41:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:41:30] Katherine: You know, giving us our full potential, you know? Yeah. Like, public school is failing us. Maybe. Maybe that's a, 

[00:41:35] Eldar: yeah. I think what happened probably is, uh, the society, as it grows and grows and grows, it becomes, we see all these issues, all the stuff that happens very complex and very dynamic, and everything that's going on, and the society or education system is locking behind to be able to catch up to all this stuff.

[00:41:50] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:41:51] Eldar: So, yeah. 

[00:41:51] Katherine: We don't feel prepared for the world, maybe. Sure. In this complex world. 

[00:41:55] Eldar: Yeah. And I think that nobody's really revising it to the point of. Preparedness. Yeah. Where people that did want maybe sat down and thought this thing through. Mm. Like they thought the constitution through at that time maybe.

[00:42:06] Right. They specifically thought it through for that maybe time. Yeah. It 

[00:42:09] Katherine: worked for that time of the time in the world. That world. Yeah. For that 

[00:42:12] Eldar: world. Which is, you know, but because society's just going, technology's going, social media's going right. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, that's what you have. Like, you like, I can't tie my shoes, but I'm coming out to college and like, want, want a job.

[00:42:23] You know what I mean? But I don't know the basics. 

[00:42:25] Toliy: Yeah. Like slavery existed when the 

[00:42:26] Eldar: constitution was, uh, 

[00:42:27] Katherine: exactly right. Yeah. It was a different time. Yeah. Then we abolished it, right. 

[00:42:31] Eldar: For example. Yeah. Right. So I think it's not, I think that the, the perpetual cycle, but we, our 

[00:42:36] Katherine: constitution, right? Like, is, does that remain exactly the same, our constitution?

[00:42:40] Eldar: Well, to some degree I think it does. I think there's certain amendments that they do have. But constitution stays as the constitution. Yeah. It's kind 

[00:42:45] Katherine: of still the same. Okay. 

[00:42:46] Eldar: That's why a lot of people like challenging this. Like back then they had muskets. That's why the, like it's a different time. The guns was this, but now we have automatic machine guns and like changed.

[00:42:54] Toliy: They challenge like the constitutional, like, like things about like, hey, like yeah, 

[00:42:58] Eldar: now there's ar, ar fifteens. That's why there's certain guns, maybe abandoned one state versus another state. Because locally you can change that. Yeah. Now it's local. Okay. Okay. Which is, it's, I think it's slowly catching up.

[00:43:09] Mm. To the progress. But it's a very slow thing. Just too slow 

[00:43:12] Katherine: and not fast enough for this fast pace world. So I think 

[00:43:14] Eldar: maybe we don't have enough smart people to be able to sit down and really think these these things through in order to be able to create a system, educational system, whatever system that they're creating in order to be able to foresee the next a hundred years or a thousand years.

[00:43:26] I tell you, it's a very hard thing to do. 

[00:43:28] Toliy: Well, it's funny to me is that like the people that live with that within the system, they operate completely the opposite. Everybody just jumps to conclusions and just like forms quick opinions, and then they just kind of keep, keep going. Yeah. Where like. The system that they live in, the people are in charge.

[00:43:43] Like everybody moves a different way. Com, com completely. They, they don't move well, nearly at the speed that like the average person moves. Yeah. The social media moves a lot faster than, than any education move. Like this. You hear news, you hear takes, that's it. You're ready to go. Like, you're ready. The next thing, something's educating you already on your phone move.

[00:43:58] They're 

[00:43:58] Katherine: appealing to your, like you emotions and like, they're, they're, they're, they're throwing trigger things out there so that, you know, they grab your attention, they grab your, your, your, like, your emotion and then you run with it. Yeah. I've hearing kind of 

[00:44:11] Toliy: what people are doing, hearing like gun laws for forever, like Yeah.

[00:44:13] It's the same conversation over and over again. And like, what, what, what do they change? Yeah. Like, um, 1, 1, 1 question I have is that what, so for, for the people that participate, like in, in, like they, they feel that like things are unfair. Like, well, like I guess one, like do you guys feel that things are unfair and corrupt?

[00:44:36] That like this does exist, unfairness and corruption, and then two like. For people that do feel that, like, okay, like this is the reality of things. Like what advice do you have for people to navigate life and how, how do they, let's start, let's 

[00:44:49] Eldar: start with 

[00:44:49] Toliy: Mike. Yeah. How, how do they even like go about things?

[00:44:53] Mike: Mm-hmm. Do I believe that unfairness and corruption exist? Yeah. Like first that, yeah. I do think, um, the way that I understand corruption, I do think that exists, but I don't think it's unfair. Well, well, you, you don't think it's unfair? No. 

[00:45:13] Eldar: Okay. I think 

[00:45:14] Mike: like, I don't know how that could be. I'm, I'm not sure how the formula, like if it's happening, then it's happening.

[00:45:22] This is like, 

[00:45:23] Toliy: okay. So you, so you feel that that, um, that like corruption does exist and it's totally fair. Mm. And this in the world that we live in. Yes. 

[00:45:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:31] Yeah. It, but that's because like, whatever's happening in the world is a representation of the people, right? Yeah. It's not like everybody here is like ra um, uh, the masses are raising their hands.

[00:45:41] Like, I want to be a philosopher. I want to improve my quality of life. I want to think more and learn more, and be happier. Be happier. And they know what that means, and they actually know. But if you're not doing, for 

[00:45:51] Toliy: example, let's just say like, to, to, to play like the devil's advocate there, they're like mm-hmm.

[00:45:56] If you're not doing any bad shit mm-hmm. Or participating in like, um, like corruption or like, you know, doing people dirty and for, for example, stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, like, and like, I mean, like, you were actually just, just like born into the world, right? Like, is it unfair for that person? Like, should, should you feel that like there's an unfairness going on, like you're being wronged.

[00:46:20] Mike: Well, like if you, you want to use like the Jeff Bezos example, or where was the billionaire? Do I feel that it's unfair that he's very wealthy and I'm not very wealthy? 

[00:46:27] Toliy: That's an example of like corruption, like an actual, I think Jeff Bezos is fucking 

[00:46:30] Mike: poor. 

[00:46:31] Toliy: Like, like an actual example of, um, corruption.

[00:46:34] Well, that actually, we don't know if that's corruption or not. Well, well, well, well, no, I'm, I'm not bringing to Jeff Bezos. Like, like, like mm-hmm. Like thing as like a corruption. I'm saying like in general, like Yeah, there is corruption, right? Yeah, of course. Okay. So the 

[00:46:46] Mike: people that are affected, but corruption is like, it's not really corruption, it's just regular course of business.

[00:46:51] Toliy: Well, well, yeah, but that, that's not the supposed like, ways of doing things, that that's why we have the word for it. Right? Like that, that's why we're, we're calling it in ideal society. Corrupt. Well, well, no, in, in our society it's not like, like, yes, like, like, like we've normalized corruption, right? Yeah, yeah.

[00:47:08] But in the way the rules are written, corruption is based on the laws. Yeah. Based on the law. Corrupt, like, sure. Corrupt exists when someone does something like illegal or wrong or immoral. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So for the people that are caught in that, is that fair for them if they're seeing it happen? Victim and they're they're affected by, they're affected by the 

[00:47:29] Mike: corruption.

[00:47:29] Yeah. They're, they're affected by it. So somebody's looking for public housing, but instead of getting the public housing, the politician stuff, their pockets, that's unfair for them. Is that what you're saying 

[00:47:39] Toliy: is, is there an easier way to depict like, corruption happening and then someone being affected by it and then like 

[00:47:45] Eldar: Well, yeah.

[00:47:45] I mean, you know, you are taking a city test. Mm-hmm. You know, there's a hundred people, oh, go ahead. 

[00:47:52] Katherine: I had a good one. 

[00:47:53] Eldar: Okay, go ahead. 

[00:47:53] Katherine: Um, remember when, um, there was this, um, one of like the horrible tropical storms that hit Haiti years ago was really bad. 

[00:48:03] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And 

[00:48:04] Katherine: FEMA was down there and do you remember that whole big scandal?

[00:48:07] FEMA got maybe millions in donations and they build a. Like, oh yeah. The number of houses that the build was like under 10 or five, it was like three or seven. It was like a crazy number that after all of that, like very little was used to actually help the Haitians. 

[00:48:25] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:26] Katherine: So like, that's corruption, right?

[00:48:28] Where did that money end up? In whose pockets? And then there's people that need, needed the help. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. That didn't see the help. 

[00:48:35] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. So like, people that, like for, for example, yeah. That were caught within that and they were affected by it, where like they should have had homes rebuilt in their area.

[00:48:44] Mm-hmm. And it wasn't because like, laws were broken and things were done like in Hush or like Yeah. You know, in, in corrupt ways. Like, oh yeah. How, like, how should they feel about that? Or like, like do they just say like, like, um, Hey, like that's, that's just the way that, that, that like, the world is. Should they retaliate?

[00:49:04] Should they, uh, um. Like, go to the person that was like at the helm of that and go, go kill them. 

[00:49:11] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:11] Toliy: You know? 

[00:49:12] Mike: Yeah. I mean, I, I, like I said, I agree that corruption exists, but I don't think it's un, I don't think it's unfair. I mean, 

[00:49:20] Toliy: so, so, so for that person, I'm saying that like, if you were in it and you were affected by the corruption, you would not think that it's not fair.

[00:49:26] Mike: I would think that it's like, it's fucked up for sure. I would think it's not fair. Yeah. Yeah. I would, yeah. 

[00:49:32] Eldar: I think a lot of times when we sign up to participate in these social, social things mm-hmm. Right? Like, you know, applying for a job or I don't know, the stock market, right? Mm-hmm. Or you buy some stocks.

[00:49:44] Mm-hmm. You know, you under the impression that you have some information, you bought some stocks, but Martha Stewart had extra information 

[00:49:50] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:49:51] Eldar: On the, on the side. Yeah. She decides to dump all her stock and you sitting holding the bags, right? Mm-hmm. Like, it's like, to a degree, yes. It's not fair. Mm-hmm.

[00:49:59] Because 

[00:49:59] I signed up and to play the, the, the rule. Yeah. By the rules. 

[00:50:03] Yeah. 

[00:50:03] But. Am I gonna be naive all my life is to say that uh, the rules are not really the rules, right? Well, 

[00:50:11] Mike: yeah. 

[00:50:11] Eldar: Uh, the way they uphold the rules is differently, right. The way that things are going on. It's like, a lot of times rules can be broken.

[00:50:19] Mm-hmm. And a lot of people can fly under the radar, do the things that they do. Right. Like, I can't be naive to that. Mm-hmm. Right. Like this, I mean, this happens to us all the time. This happens to, I mean, I I of, I learn this stuff all the time. Like, you want to get, you wanna play around with these people, or you want to get involved with this stuff, you can, but there's dangerous involved in these things.

[00:50:39] Yes. You know, so it's like, sure, you can say that it's not fair. Uh, but I think it's, um, did you account for the possibility of this happening? Well, I think, I think it's, it feels unfair. Should 

[00:50:50] Toliy: you account for it. I think you 

[00:50:51] Eldar: should. 

[00:50:52] Mike: I 

[00:50:52] Eldar: think you, it, you feel otherwise 

[00:50:53] Mike: you removed the, your power. You only, you only feel that I like if it sounds probably fucked up.

[00:50:59] It only, you only feel it's unfair because you're not on the opposite side. The Yeah. The truth is morally and ethically, I, morals and ethics are not brought into their thing. You only feel upset about it because you got wronged. But if you had opportunity to jump the ship 

[00:51:17] mm-hmm. 

[00:51:18] You'd do it. A lot of people would do it, bro.

[00:51:19] So, so then the question is like, everybody wants inside a trading bro. Correct? Yeah. 

[00:51:23] Toliy: So then the question is that like, should something be judged as fair or unfair? Only if there is, without a doubt, a, uh, a, uh, moral and fair circumstance. 

[00:51:34] Eldar: If there's moral and fair circumstances, it's impossible to even have that judgment in the first place.

[00:51:38] Okay. 

[00:51:38] Toliy: So yeah. So then, okay, then you're talking about it's a closed loop. Yeah. So, but, but see for example, like with that even said that then people are participating in things. That already have built in unfairness, let's just say Correct. Within it. Correct. But that is 

[00:51:54] Eldar: why when we watch UFC and the fighter goes, uh, split decision.

[00:51:59] I mean, the judges go split decision to this guy, and we're like, what? Mm-hmm. What fucking fights are you watching? These are people, these are make, these are people that make mistakes or maybe they're corrupt on the side as well. So what do we ask for? We like, we need fairness. We need AI to do the shit.

[00:52:14] We need AI to judge this because AI is a unbiased thing that's gonna judge it in accordance to mm-hmm. The fucking law, quote unquote. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? 

[00:52:24] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:25] Eldar: But we engage in things that Yes. Already prebuilt in them. Possibilities are unfairness. Mm-hmm. There's human factor in it. Yeah. And when you introduce a human factor in it to tell to, to kind of go into these things and then cry about them.

[00:52:39] Right. Like, if we made a bet for a thousand dollars and then fucking judges was corrupt and, and, and gave it to, clearly gave it to the other person. But everybody thought it was the other way. Like, should you cry 

[00:52:51] Mike: a little bit? But you would, you would cry if you lost, but would you smile if you won? You see?

[00:52:56] Yeah. No, you would be like, oh good. I thought he lost, but damn, I'm happy. They, they won, they got the judge got it wrong. Correct. Yeah. You're not gonna say, oh man, let's fucked up for him. Let's call the judges in the reverse and decision 

[00:53:07] Eldar: feel bad for the guy. 'cause So like we, we choose to go into these realms and then sometimes we don't wanna suffer the consequences.

[00:53:14] Yeah. And then we call and we call it, we use the word unfair. 

[00:53:17] Toliy: Yeah. But like, yeah. I guess it's like. Then it's, it's like, it's difficult for a lot of people then to participate in a lot of life's things because of, of like, there's gonna be the people that are like, like, without morals. Without values, and are greedy and bullies, like in, in it.

[00:53:37] And then there's gonna be the people that like, yeah. Like that is why the, what are whatcha gonna do? 

[00:53:41] Eldar: That is why the conclusion of this podcast or whatever is the most important thing that you can do is to bet on yourself. 

[00:53:48] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:48] Eldar: And your own facul. And develop your faculties. 

[00:53:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:51] Eldar: Right? Because at the end of the day, I think that the most empowering thing you can get is a stable, good mind.

[00:53:59] Right? I think philosophers agrees with this, right? Mm-hmm. That if you focus on virtue, right, mo most likely not, you will participate and do things in the virtuous way, in accordance to the certain things. So you shield yourself from those things, but even if you do engage in them. You could, like, that was a variable too.

[00:54:18] So when I'm hammering that line, because I'm clearly seeing that this fighter is gonna win, but the judge like, but the, the line doesn't make sense. I'm going into it like, I see something, but there's a possibility that I can be cheated here. 

[00:54:31] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:31] Eldar: And I'm okay with it. Yeah. Take that responsibility and take it on the chin if you fucking lose, you know what I mean?

[00:54:36] Yeah. So my panties are not gonna go on a bunch. Mm-hmm. So it's almost, I'm hedging myself against the unfairness part and always almost winning. 

[00:54:44] Toliy: So, so you're saying also that like, like true philosophies, uh, uh, like, uh, they're, they're, uh, saying is don't leave it up to the judges. 

[00:54:55] Eldar: Yeah. You don't leave it up to the judges 

[00:54:57] Toliy: don't leave it up in someone else's hands, correct.

[00:54:59] Mm-hmm. To decide your fate, your happiness. Yeah. Your fate as to where your career goes. Correct. Or like Correct. How do you do that? Yeah. Like you're talking about that like Yeah. Your, your only chance to live a good life and participate in the world. Is basically to be a really strong, empowered individual when like people like that are like, you know, that it's like, uh, you take, you take 

[00:55:20] Eldar: accountability for your actions.

[00:55:22] Mm-hmm. Yeah. But like you only point a finger at yourself. 

[00:55:24] Toliy: Yeah. But like 90, let's say 95% plus of the world is not cut out for that.

[00:55:33] Eldar: Sure. And yeah, that's why it's gonna be where it's gonna be. But that's part of life I think too. 

[00:55:39] Mike: Yeah. We we're here in this world with everything, the corruption, the not corruption, the fairness, unfairness, everything you can create or think of anything you can say, we can, anybody can ever say whatever happened, it was happened because it's supposed to happen because of who the people are, who the society is.

[00:55:55] Yeah. It's a direct depiction, representation, whatever word you wanna use. That's right. There's no such thing as unfair. Yeah. 

[00:56:01] Eldar: Like, uh, because God created it this way. 

[00:56:04] Toliy: Right. What you say. So what, so, so what do you say then to the people that are like stuck in that and they ask you like, Hey, Mike. Um, like, what, what should I do?

[00:56:12] Like what what advice would you have for this? The 

[00:56:14] Mike: only thing that is fair is the truth. Yeah. I think 'cause 

[00:56:19] Toliy: that's the thing that exists. No, but what, what advice? Outside of our control. What did you have for, for those people? Like, what would you tell 'em? They're like, Hey, like, let's say they, they just made the realization that like, we, like, they feel that like, shit's not fair, shit's corrupt.

[00:56:31] Mm-hmm. Yeah. And like, they're in this paralyzed state and they're angry. Mm-hmm. And this anger has been boiling for a long time. Mm-hmm. Because of like how their life is and how things are. Mm-hmm. Like what, what would you say to those people? 

[00:56:42] Mike: If you don't like it, like that's your problem. But if you don't like it and you're gonna do something about it, then change it.

[00:56:49] Because that's what I believe. If something's happening in my life, I don't believe that it's like, uh. I didn't earn it, I didn't deserve it, or it's unfair. And if I do, I'm in that moment. I'm being ignorant. Yeah. It's a, 

[00:57:02] Toliy: yeah. Yeah. Like it's, it's a really hard thing. 'cause you can't even say anything to people that already feel that way because like Yeah.

[00:57:09] They're already past the point of like, they're already committed, bro on that. How can you, how can you say something that's a perception that they have to live out? Yeah. Like, yeah. That something's not fair. 

[00:57:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:17] Mike: Well, you know, we, we spoke about this some, uh, times. The, the survival of the fitness. Right.

[00:57:21] What we're 

[00:57:21] Eldar: saying is that the, there's no such thing as fairness, bro. 

[00:57:23] Mike: No. Yeah. 

[00:57:25] Eldar: There's no such thing. It 

[00:57:25] Mike: just is what it is. 

[00:57:27] Eldar: Yeah. I think it just 

[00:57:27] Mike: is. I think that, 

[00:57:29] Eldar: and you just got caught up in that nonsense. Yeah. You just chose to play the game. But that's because everybody bought in. Yeah. You put your money on it and now when motherfuckers lapped your ass, right?

[00:57:38] Yeah. Got the inside information on the side. 'cause you wasn't looking 'cause you was paying attention here. They, they, they plotting on the side. You got caught. 

[00:57:46] Yeah. 

[00:57:46] Now eat it. 

[00:57:47] That's it. Yeah. You know that's part of the gig. That's part of the gig. Yeah. Yes, baby. You were gonna say something. What's not fair in your life, babe?

[00:58:00] What, what do you got to complain about? You know, 

[00:58:01] Katherine: I, what, what I wanted to say about like, the question that was being asked 

[00:58:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:58:06] Katherine: Was, is there corruption? Yes. Is there unfairness? Yes. But I think, I think the key is how you take it on as an individual, right? Yeah. For example, you can go the victim route.

[00:58:17] Yeah. And then just sit there and complain. Uh, not really do anything, but just sit there and complain, right? And just be a victim, right? Like, oh, the system sucks, or This is corrupt, right? And then there's the people who get empowered by that, right? How many times have I not seen, uh, especially like, I love, um, true crime, right?

[00:58:36] Documentaries, whatever it is, podcasts. How many times have you seen families that are affected or that lose, uh, uh, like let's say a family member in ex like in, in a certain type of way, right? Um, and they find. That, uh, through the process of going through the legalities, going through the criminal system, they find issues in the system.

[00:58:59] Yeah. And they become the fiercest advocate. Yeah. And they go and they build foundations or they, they they change laws. Yeah. They, they complete, they make a difference. So they take that, uh, unfairness or that corruption and they turn it into something positive into, and they actually go and get like justice reform, uh, some sort of a change.

[00:59:21] Yeah. That sure it comes from pain or from unfairness, but they go and they do something good about it. They could, yes. And now anybody else that suffers from that may not have to go what they went through. I think there's, there's, it's very, it's, I feel like what's most important is how you handle that, because I think that's always gonna exist.

[00:59:42] Corruption. Yeah. There's greed in the world. There's unfairness in the world. Unfair things happen to people all the time. 

[00:59:49] Eldar: Yeah. I mean, we took it on the chin with that deck, so 

[00:59:51] Katherine: how Yeah. How we proceed with it. Yeah. You know, it's, uh, you know, do you just, uh, as you like to say, roll over and, and die about it?

[00:59:59] Yeah. Or do you empower yourself, roll with the punches and do the best that you can? I think that is probably the most important part of this conversation, in my opinion. 

[01:00:09] Toliy: But, so, so how do you, how do you as a person that like you realize this, like, um, this like unfairness or like this like, uh, injustice, right?

[01:00:19] How do you go about, Hey, I'm gonna go, like, how do you have that attitude shift of like, like, like between, like, okay, you're saying like, um, go like learn, go do something about it. Like go change your perspective, like. Like, think about things a different way, like empower yourself, right? When like your natural feeling is anger.

[01:00:40] Also you're upset. Like, also, 

[01:00:41] Katherine: also that that's just assuming that somebody wants to, to, to, to, to do better. You know, like a lot of people don't have a like, I guess like the intention to even like, I don't know, better themselves or educate themselves. A lot of people, uh, may be arrogant and think that they know enough already or they don't have time to dedicate to education or to research or, you know.

[01:01:06] That might not be their way. You know, I, I don't know if it's for everyone. That's why we're always gonna have those people that take it on the chin, empower themselves and don't let this drag them. 

[01:01:15] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:16] Katherine: And then there's gonna be the complainers who don't do anything and don't educate themselves. Or I'm not saying that, you know, uh, you're a complainer.

[01:01:23] Meaning you're uneducated. No, I'm just saying you're gonna have the people that maybe don't empower themselves, don't educate, or just wanna complain about it, but don't really actually wanna do anything. 

[01:01:31] Toliy: The, the, the thing is that I think that like the people that do that, like actually do something about it, I feel like there, there's, there's probably a portion in that where they may be needed to like, you know, take two steps back to take like 10 steps forward.

[01:01:46] Hmm. And I think that there's a perception society that, like people who go that wrath, that, that, that, that path that they've lost and they're, they're, uh, losers. 

[01:01:55] Hmm. 

[01:01:55] And they get judged versus the people who are angry. They're like the, like the heroes, they're like the people that like stood up for their shit, right?

[01:02:03] Mm-hmm. Where someone's like, Hey, okay. Like, that person's gonna like treat me poorly. I understand this is happening, you know, maybe I'm gonna stay here for a little bit and I'm gonna get the fuck outta here. Right? Yeah. Where like, the person is more about like, hey, the guy that went and just punched their boss in the face.

[01:02:18] Like they're, they're, they're, he's the man. Yeah. He's the man well look like, versus like the guy who's like, I know that, that this is happening. Mm-hmm. And I'm gonna save up and get the fuck outta here and do my own thing. Or like, you know, like, look like 

[01:02:29] Katherine: the Luigi Mangione guy. Am I saying that correctly?

[01:02:31] Yeah. Yeah. The kid that, um. Had his, you know, health issues got screwed over by like his health insurance. Yeah. And then he went and he got rev revenge. 

[01:02:40] Eldar: Oh, he was directly impacted himself? 

[01:02:42] Katherine: Yes. He How didn't know that? I didn't know that he had, yeah, 

[01:02:44] Eldar: he, he was, wait, you 

[01:02:44] Katherine: guys didn't know this? This is the whole thing.

[01:02:46] Yeah. 

[01:02:46] Toliy: No, no, no. What happened? Some of, some back issues, like 

[01:02:48] Katherine: a crazy back surgery. He has like a bunch of like metal rods and, and stuff. 

[01:02:53] Toliy: Yeah. I think he had like really bad scoliosis or something, or Really? Yeah. So he had 

[01:02:56] Katherine: this major surgery that has impacted, he's the, the kid is really young. I mean, he's under 30 and he was experiencing issues, I think it was even, uh, messing with like impotence and stuff like that.

[01:03:08] Yeah. So like, I mean, it was, I mean, it, it, it was really tough on him. Yeah. Yeah. A young kid. He was made, 

[01:03:14] Toliy: made, made fun of and like Yeah. Like Wow. Stuff like that and all. 

[01:03:17] Katherine: Yeah. He comes from like, you know, a well off family. Yeah. Like, well educated. He's a, he's a handsome kid. Yeah. I can only imagine, uh, how his life was affected by that.

[01:03:27] Um. And as everything is getting denied and as he's going through, like I'm, I'm sure mm-hmm. Like the most stressful time in his life, uh, he takes his revenge. And then what happens? What is now what you see is like the public applauds him. You know, like the public is for him. Mm. Free Luigi. It's like a whole thing.

[01:03:47] Yeah. It's because people are like, okay, he's, they've 

[01:03:50] Eldar: been there, he's, 

[01:03:51] Katherine: yeah. Felt it. We've all been there. Well, well that How many people can't? Can't, yeah. You know, so it, it becomes like he's a Robin Hood. 

[01:03:58] Eldar: So then, so then, so then look, 

[01:03:59] Katherine: and actually the deny rate was like 95% of their denials. It's a whole thing.

[01:04:05] And, and 

[01:04:05] Toliy: they like got, got caught in fined. Yeah. And like in trouble for you's a whole thing. And that CEO got caught for being like corrupt and like Wow. And they choose, that's why he targeted him. Totally. 

[01:04:14] Katherine: Did you see 

[01:04:15] Toliy: choose He knew all this. 

[01:04:16] Katherine: Yes. They'd rather not pay out. Like they just rather deny, deny.

[01:04:21] And they get fined for it because the fine is still lower than what they have to do in all the payouts. They're like, well, we'll take, we'll take the slap on the wrist. Yeah. And they got caught with this full corruption. Wow. They got, 

[01:04:31] Eldar: well look, look, millions of people are being affected by it. Again, you play these games, you decided to get into this, let's just say healthcare system, right?

[01:04:39] And you decided to do things this way. And you fuck with, and it's part of the system. You fucked with people's lives. Yeah. Right. You fuck with certain people's lives. Yeah. You got, you affected certain people's lives in a very specific way. Thousands, millions of, you've bred a very specific anger. Mm-hmm.

[01:04:53] And then you got the explosion, 

[01:04:57] Katherine: you got the backlash. The the only you got 

[01:04:59] in inevitable. 

[01:05:00] Yes. So, so these 

[01:05:01] Eldar: things are inevitable response. These things in corrupt ways, they're gonna be corrupted like that. That's just the way it is. It's like there's gonna be balance, there's always gonna be life's balance.

[01:05:10] And I think it was created like, like Mike was saying, that if. This shit is made this way. So whatever is happening, it's supposed to happen this way. Yeah, because there's a specific balance. Well, if you are paying attention here, philosophers, I think that actually can be prophecies, right? Where you, if you really pay attention to how human psychology works, how everything works, how this system works, versus how the system is intended to work.

[01:05:30] Mm-hmm. You can predict all these things. 

[01:05:32] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:33] Eldar: Yeah. Would 

[01:05:33] Katherine: you say that this what we're discussing right now, like Luigi being wrong by the, uh, you know, the health insurance, what is it, UnitedHealthcare, right? Yeah. He goes and he gets revenge on this guy, the ceo, whoever he was. Yeah. Right. In a sense like that has, it's the balance.

[01:05:50] Remember the equilibrium that we started talking about? It's, yeah. Okay. It's, you have one extreme happening here, and I'm not gonna say affecting people. There's another extreme is gonna come from that. 

[01:05:59] Eldar: And I'm not gonna say it's, it's good or bad what he did or what the other person did. Right. But it's 

[01:06:04] Katherine: just what it's, it's 

[01:06:06] Eldar: just what it is.

[01:06:06] Katherine: Yeah. And the 

[01:06:07] Eldar: consequences is just what the consequences are in accordance to how the people move. 

[01:06:12] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:06:13] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. And obviously, like, I think there's justice in the world. 

[01:06:18] Katherine: Yeah. Despite, it has, it has its own justice. It 

[01:06:21] Eldar: has its own justice outside of the people. The players, the system.

[01:06:24] System or whatever. Yeah. It's gonna have its own equilibrium. Yeah. And that equilibrium's gonna be had whether you like it or not. 

[01:06:31] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:06:32] Yeah. I think like, uh, I was trying to fi figure out like an example to give about like this fairness, unfairness thing. Mm-hmm. Um. And I think a lot of times the, the people who are gonna be like, uh, use unfairness or, or we say, oh, that's fucked up, or whatever.

[01:06:56] It's almost like, um, looking, looking at a moment mm-hmm. In time through like a very narrow lens. 

[01:07:05] Eldar: Okay. Yeah. 

[01:07:06] Mike: And you, like, you look at the transaction, right? And you're like, oh man, this was unfair. Mm-hmm. Right. But you didn't see what became before the transaction. Yes. Or after That is a very good point.

[01:07:16] And that's more of like, you don't see the big picture, you don't see the big picture, you don't see the big picture. Right. But the big picture is, is the big picture. It tell picture, it tells it all. But the big picture is you want to call it God. You can call it God. You wanna call it the truth. You can call it the truth.

[01:07:29] Yeah. Karma. But the, you want to call it karma. You call it karma, but that it plays out. Yeah. But it's, it's gravity. If you're watching a movie through this little window Yeah. And you see a scene and you're like, oh man, this guy got. This happened to him. It's fucked up. 

[01:07:42] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:07:43] Mike: But you don't know what's coming next.

[01:07:44] Yeah. You don't, you're not God. Yeah. Unless you actually seeing the system. Unless you're seeing how things work. Yeah. Correct. And you, first of all, you have to believe it. Yeah. You have to respect it. Yeah. And then also acknowledge that this is how it works. And then you won't be like wanting to play God.

[01:07:58] But instead you know that whatever's transpiring is supposed to transpire in accordance with the truth. You can almost predict it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. 'cause the justice will play out always. 

[01:08:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:08:10] Mike: You know, maybe in the moment you see the CEO he's living, he's on his mega yacht with the craziest chicks.

[01:08:15] Eldar: Yeah. With the 

[01:08:15] Mike: craziest food. With the craziest lifestyle. Yeah. But then he comes home every night. He wants to kill himself. Yeah. He has a miserable, he's in constant turmoil. Yeah. He's scared for his life. He has crazy pain, anxiety all day. Yeah. Right. 

[01:08:29] Katherine: But most of social media is looking at him and saying, I want that.

[01:08:32] Yes. That's, I wanna know that guy. 

[01:08:34] Mike: And that's the problem. People looking at a small lens. Yeah. And they only see what they are shown and what they, and, and because they don't question, they don't say like, oh. Is this, the whole picture is this, his whole life is like this glamorous life. 

[01:08:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:08:48] Mike: You know, but then when the truth comes out Yeah.

[01:08:50] Which it always does. 

[01:08:51] Eldar: Yeah. You see the bigger picture. You 

[01:08:53] Mike: see, I mean, he died. Yeah. Young. He got killed. He got killed. He got killed. Yeah. I mean some, somebody had so much anger towards him. Yeah. Yeah. You know that he didn't, I didn't know, I didn't know all those details. I didn't know 'em until either. Yeah.

[01:09:06] Eldar: Yeah. They report ceo, 

[01:09:07] Katherine: they're report. Yeah. They did not know all 

[01:09:09] Eldar: those details. That this kid had this, like, this issue 

[01:09:11] Katherine: actually with this company, the denied the denial rate was, was astronomical. He, he, 

[01:09:15] Toliy: he had that on like the, uh, the bullets. It said like, deny something, something like delay. Yeah. Delay, deny, delay 

[01:09:22] Katherine: something else.

[01:09:22] Deny he, I mean, he had like a whole line about it. It's a whole thing. The, you see like the kid was smart enough to, he, he educated himself on this and then he was like, you know what? The system is so wrong, and he just, I have to, I have to, I have to nip it from all way from the bud is wealthy. His family's rich.

[01:09:37] Yeah. He's, he's gone to good school. I mean, the kid is a, he is a smart kid. I, I'm, I think he, he went and he really did his research and he thought, I have to spearhead like the top, like, this is coming from this person. 

[01:09:49] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:50] Katherine: The system. Like he's doing all of this, you know? 

[01:09:52] Toliy: Yeah. I think like the, the next step is for these people to do this.

[01:09:56] Get away with it. Oh, yeah. No. If the 

[01:09:58] Eldar: judge says not guilty. Yeah. Oh, 

[01:10:01] Toliy: that is crazy. I'm, I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking about 

[01:10:05] Eldar: like not getting caught to begin with. No, no, no, no. You're gonna get caught eventually. What I'm saying you'll catch up to No, no, no. The next step was what I said. Yeah, if the judge says not guilty, that's, that's, yeah.

[01:10:15] Or if the jury, if the jury says Not guilty gigs up or you and 

[01:10:21] Mike: I, 

[01:10:21] Eldar: yes or no. Well, 

[01:10:23] yeah, 

[01:10:23] that's, or they're gonna shit. They're gonna be shit bricks up there. Yeah. And I can tell you, if I was on the jury, they're gonna be shitting bricks up there. You're not convincing me otherwise taking his, this is the jury.

[01:10:33] He's regular people got two charges. Exactly. I also think the world's unfair, 

[01:10:36] Katherine: regular people who have been wrong, possibly wronged by that. Same, by the rich. By the rich. 

[01:10:41] Eldar: With that being said, guys. With that being said, I get called for jury duty. It's over. Yeah. If I'm on that fucking battle and I in New York, baby.

[01:10:48] Well, you know what? I just thought. Yeah. I got called. Really? Yeah, I got the, I got see in the mail. I'm going, you 

[01:10:53] Katherine: know what's funny? So I'm about to turn the whole world off right down. Shit, they better put me on. You get called to jury duty and you're like, oh, damn. And I'm like, no, you, it's over them. You need to be there.

[01:11:03] The, yeah. Like this is needed. Even Hopefully 

[01:11:05] Eldar: I get, uh, uh, was it Joe Ani Joe? What's the name? Hopefully it, it's Luigi Manji. Luigi Ji. Yeah. I'll get that one. Yeah. 

[01:11:14] Katherine: Hopefully it's that one. Damn. I'd 

[01:11:15] Toliy: like 

[01:11:15] Katherine: to be on that jury. 

[01:11:16] Toliy: Yeah, they, they already dropped two, two charges of his just, just like a couple days ago.

[01:11:21] Three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like terrorism and like something like, you know. Yeah. So that's gonna be interesting. Yeah, no, like I said, if look, 

[01:11:28] Katherine: you're gonna wanna make an example outta him, right? 

[01:11:29] Toliy: Well, yeah. But, but or not also like, or not also, I was thinking they, they have like, they have a bunch of that ing like, uh, like, uh, nerds out there too, right?

[01:11:37] Like the anonymous, like the hackers, you know? Yeah. Like if these people just are like fucking with these people's lives Yeah. Like messing up their banking, messing up this like Yeah. Yeah. Throwing off house alarms outta nowhere in the middle of the night phone calls. Like things I don't, I don't know.

[01:11:52] Just like constant things. Yeah. Like, and then not getting caught with it. Yeah. To me, like that, that's the next step is like doing this and not going to prison, but actually like Yeah, yeah, yeah. Getting away with things. Yeah. You know, like I, I, I don't know if you can get away with these kind of brutal like assassinations and stuff like that.

[01:12:08] Yeah. It's pretty hard nowadays with like cameras everywhere. No, but I think based on everything that 

[01:12:12] Eldar: we said, all based on everything that we said, that if there's. Complete injustice on one side, there's gonna be some kind of like civil, almost justice that's gonna be taken by people who are normal people suffering from this and touched by this.

[01:12:24] Like, you are gonna get to that boiling point. Yeah. And I think that boiling point might be there now. Right. Um, and it is what it is. 

[01:12:32] Toliy: Well, I, I, I think in general, very strong takes are gonna rub people the wrong way and make people feel very particular ways. Yeah. And like that I think will, like, if your scale is large enough Yeah.

[01:12:49] You're gonna get angry, like listeners and angry like Yeah. People. Yeah. And obviously like, like. The person that killed them. Like they had their reasons and like there's probably other people that felt that same way. 100. I mean that's what they're 

[01:13:04] Eldar: celebrating. 

[01:13:05] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:13:05] Eldar: That you have celebrating and you have mourning on one side, celebrating on the other.

[01:13:09] You have both sides. Yeah. Some people like, 

[01:13:10] Toliy: this is crazy bad. Some people are like, good dude, this guy was a piece of shit. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. You know, 

[01:13:16] Katherine: I have a question. I think so toe's mentioning a lot of anger and I agree, I see a lot of anger and, and frustration, but like, so underneath anger, anger's like a secondary emotion, right?

[01:13:27] Underneath that anger, there's always something else. There's other things, right? 

[01:13:32] Eldar: You like making that statement? 

[01:13:33] Katherine: No, I'm saying this because ultimately what I think what is, what is happening with society is people maybe are so overwhelmed with all these types of emotions of healing, helplessness, frustration.

[01:13:46] Maybe they've been done, done, you know, done wrong or you know, whatever. And I think that it's, it's all coming up as anger, but I think maybe we are so over. Stimulated and emotional and we don't know what to do with all those emotions and processing them. 'cause let's face it, not no, most people are not actually, you know, brought up to know how to process these things.

[01:14:06] Right. Most people don't go to therapy or not talking things through with counselors and you just have a, a bunch of people in society that are sitting there with all these things. Don't know how else to, to, to communicate, but to just express it like this. Yeah. And this is, this is what we're seeing.

[01:14:25] We're just seeing an expression of emotion and it's coming out as anger, but it's people dealing with all sorts of emotions from all the stuff that is constantly. And that's bombarding us. We're gonna 

[01:14:35] Eldar: go back to what to said. That goes, it 

[01:14:36] Katherine: goes to mental health. 

[01:14:37] Eldar: What does it take for you to learn? That's it.

[01:14:42] What is your threshold? You have to punch somebody in the face. You have to stab somebody to 

[01:14:46] Katherine: learn. What, what do you mean? To learn what? Whatever you 

[01:14:48] Eldar: need to learn. 

[01:14:49] Katherine: Whatever your lessons may be, 

[01:14:51] Eldar: how to finally empower yourself. How to finally, yeah. People kill somebody over a Yeah, 

[01:14:55] Toliy: like a parking spot, right?

[01:14:57] Yeah. 

[01:14:57] Eldar: Or over Jordan's. 

[01:14:58] Toliy: Yeah. Like, hey, like you really needed that spot. You're gonna be willing to get outta your car, pull a gun and shoot somebody in the face. Yeah. You need like, you needed that spot, that bad. Yeah. You know? So then you have to sit in jail for the rest of your life. Order mental, think mental 

[01:15:13] Eldar: health.

[01:15:13] Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, that might be your threshold. 

[01:15:16] Katherine: Yeah. That actually happened in Brooklyn recently, remember? Mm-hmm. Do you Warren told, yeah. 

[01:15:19] Toliy: Then, then there, there could be like one level down, you go outside and you get into a crazy fight and you let her know, like you beat somebody up or you get beaten up over a spot.

[01:15:29] Yeah. Right? Like, then there, there, then there's like just people who just like go one level down, maybe like maybe there's a push and a shove. No real fight. Then you go one level down there could be like just yelling at each other and like cursing. And then there's like, you know, a level down, flipping off, right?

[01:15:45] Yeah. Or like, and then it keeps going down to like. What, like, you know, what is it that you need in your life? Yeah. What do you need? You just need to, you know, flip somebody off and tell 'em, fuck you, you know? That's it. Right. And then like that, that's enough for you. Right. My main thing was, is I, when, when I saw, and when I heard what everybody was saying, like it's, it's difficult for there to be like a, um, like a good outlook on like, like not like a good outlook, like on, on life.

[01:16:11] No. I mean, not, not, not, not, not, not like on my own life, but like, I don't see, um, a, uh, like I don't see how the development of like morality and ethics and like those kinds of things, like I don't see how that's going to progress in. But do you, 

[01:16:27] Eldar: okay. In society, I know, I know where you're going with this, but don't you see that, um, like for example, our space or our.

[01:16:36] Podcast or our conversations and the style conversation that we have is becoming more and more the most relevant type of conversation that needs to be had. 

[01:16:44] Toliy: It is that, that's for sure. That's that, that's for sure. But I also see how it's 

[01:16:48] Eldar: the most, like, it's finally the weeds are being weeded out, right?

[01:16:52] Yeah. And it's like, what is it? What is really important here? 

[01:16:55] Toliy: Yeah. But it's the most offensive like thing at the same time. Yes. I was just gonna say it's the most 

[01:16:58] Katherine: relevant or important, but it is the most, uh, not hated, but it's also the most like, um, you know, people, 

[01:17:07] Toliy: it's static. 

[01:17:08] Katherine: It's the most static. Yeah.

[01:17:09] Ours. Yes. How 

[01:17:11] Toliy: so? The, we have the answer, but the person who's missing ignorant and upset, like they don't want your answers. They're gonna take No problem. They're saying it. No, no, no, no. Guys. Personal attack guys. They 

[01:17:23] Eldar: want you to stand next to them. Guys. Wet, shove this down anybody's throat. Yeah, no problem.

[01:17:27] Yeah. Go get punched in the face. Go get stabbed or go get shot in the face. We're okay with this too. 

[01:17:33] Toliy: Yeah. But that's also like PE people for example. Like, like like Charlie Kirk. Yeah. They went from like campus to campus to like debate and talk about things. Yeah. And like they could all say like, Hey, like you don't like my opinions.

[01:17:44] Yeah. Like you don't have to go hear them. Yeah. But like, you, like the takes attract those kinds of, of people and those kinds of people want to naturally fight back. But 

[01:17:53] Eldar: also, what was 

[01:17:54] Toliy: he saying though? Yeah. 

[01:17:55] Eldar: What are we, what I, I don't think anybody has an argument with us. I don't think anybody will have an actual argument.

[01:18:01] He actually, no. Ignorant people will always have an argument. He No, they won't preaching. They will. No, no. I think you underestimate that. The type of argument we're trying to have, there is no force behind the argument that has to come back to us. Yeah. Like it's impossible thing is 

[01:18:16] Mike: his, uh, from what I heard, some things, he was di divisive person.

[01:18:20] He was creating the vision between certain people. No, but we're not here to do 

[01:18:27] Toliy: that. No, no. We're not here to do that. We're trying to empower people. No, a hundred percent. He was trying to empower certain people and not other people. No, a hundred percent. But the way that we that, but, but the way that we talk and go about things at times to like, other people can view that as divisive.

[01:18:43] Katherine: Controversial. Controversial. Maybe Controversial, but 

[01:18:45] Toliy: contr. Yeah. Like we're we're mean. Yeah. In that kind of way. Even though, even though we, like, we we're the most compassionate. We're running. Yeah. No, but because it's, because whatcha talking, we're the most compassionate. 

[01:18:55] Eldar: The thing is, we're the most compassionate to whoever the listener is.

[01:18:58] Agree with that. We're the most compassionate person to you because we actually have the best interest. Your, your best interest at heart. Your best interest. No, I don't. Not the worlds not your left side. Not your right side. Not what you believe in. No, but it's not about what's actually, but who you actually are.

[01:19:13] No, I know, but it's not about what's actually happening. It's about the perception I was being perceived. I just don't see how you cannot, you would not be able to. Say that to an individual if you have the chance. 

[01:19:24] Toliy: No, no. You're talking about scenarios where you could have reasonable conversations with somebody and like go through that.

[01:19:29] But people who like listen and form conclusions and have ways of thinking and agree or disagree with things, they're gonna view things completely different. 

[01:19:37] Eldar: Well, that's on 

[01:19:38] Toliy: them. Well, yeah, but I'm, they're missing out. Well, no. Sure. Yes. But what I'm saying is that like, missing the point, they're gonna view this as divisive, that same way they might see it.

[01:19:49] Sure, sure. Yeah. Controversial 

[01:19:51] Eldar: maybe. No, you can di you cannot, you cannot. Yeah. Divisive. You cannot not, you cannot not compare us to what Mike was saying. You can just, can't Which part is divisive for us. Yeah. 

[01:20:00] Mike: What We are just talking shit. But we also know we're talking shit. And I, we're talk, we're talking shit about your ego.

[01:20:05] No, we're also talking shit to a very specific, egotistical person in that moment. No, I know. But those people, if you listen to the podcast Yeah. It's again like, uh, you at the valley. I said, if you look at, if you look at a movie and you look at one scene, you're like, damn, that was fucked up. Right? But now if you watch the whole movie, you're like, oh, okay.

[01:20:19] It's not fucked up. This is a, this is a big picture. Yeah, no, I know, but I'm saying like, but if somebody's listen to our podcast and they see one episode, three minutes of us beating the shit out of s like mentally abusing Harris. Yeah. This is not the bigger picture. Every single day we come through, for every, anybody who comes here, a hundred percent wants to come through for Themm.

[01:20:37] No. 100%. I don't think, I don't think 

[01:20:39] Eldar: anybody will take a three minute clip, for example, and want to come and kill you. No, I don't think so. 

[01:20:44] Toliy: No. But the, the, the, the strong ways, the strong beliefs and, and, and, and, and different things like that. I think those people like, who are very sensitive, or the people who are like, um, who have particular views, it'll be very hard for them because like, the question 

[01:21:03] Eldar: is, are they willing, right.

[01:21:04] Are they willing to take on what they're listening to and then be able to do something so abrasive as hurting us or hurting someone? You know what I'm saying? Like, they, they could, no, I don't, I don't think it's possible. No, I don't think it's possible. I don't think you could. Yeah. I don't, I 

[01:21:21] Mike: really don't think it's possible, but I also don't, if you look at the, if you look at the sock thing, I don't think it actually matters.

[01:21:28] Uh, yeah. Plus it doesn't matter. Right? Like if, like sock is dead, but so what? Yeah. Exactly. His shit is 5,000 years later, he's still Yeah. He's still alive. He's still the hottest shit on the block. Exactly. You know? A 

[01:21:37] Eldar: hundred percent for us, for other people too. Well, 100%. And at the end of the day, it's like, what, what are, what are we talking about here?

[01:21:43] Yeah. What are you gonna come and do? What 

[01:21:45] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:21:47] Eldar: On based on nothing. 

[01:21:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:21:49] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? I think that the difference probably would have to be, uh. Charlie, if you asked Charlie Kirk, are you ready to die for your shit or not? 

[01:21:58] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:59] Eldar: Was he ready to die for his shit? Well, he, if he said, if he said and says, I'm ready to die for my shit, then good.

[01:22:06] Then what's the problem? Yeah. I, we don't have a problem. 

[01:22:08] Toliy: I, I think they were showing videos of him saying that like, Hey, I know that, like, you know, people could come after me or like, I, I, no, no, no. Okay. Knowing is one 

[01:22:15] Eldar: thing. Yeah. But are you ready to die on your shit for your shit? 

[01:22:18] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:22:20] Eldar: Then if so, then who gives a fuck?

[01:22:22] Toliy: Yeah. Or, or like for example, like the, uh, the Jason Whitlock guy, he said, Hey, I know Yeah. That the way I talk. Yeah. No one's gonna hire me. Yeah. I'm okay with this. Yeah. You, you okay with the consequences? He's know that these mainstream places Yeah. Are not gonna hire me because of the way that I talk and my opinions.

[01:22:38] Yeah. Yeah. And I'm all right with them. Yeah. And I'm all right with the consequences behind that. 

[01:22:41] Eldar: That's 

[01:22:41] Toliy: it. Yeah. 

[01:22:43] Eldar: And the person who, for example, if Charlie Kirk was wrongly, let's just say killed, right? Um. Let's just say he stood behind the truth, that he was the right person. Is that possible to be wrongly killed?

[01:22:55] That's, let's just play my game a little bit. Okay. Fine. You know what I mean? Well 

[01:22:57] Katherine: be rightfully Yeah. I don't know if, 

[01:22:59] Eldar: um, what's his name then that person who killed him, missed out. Right. On Charlie Kirk. 

[01:23:06] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:23:07] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Because, uh, you know, if he was behind the truth, he stood behind the truth, then if that person's just missing out and like he didn't get the point.

[01:23:15] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:23:15] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? And if, and if that person needs to get the point 

[01:23:19] Right. Then I think he died for the right. Cause you know, Charlie 

[01:23:25] Kirk did. Yeah. Is what I'm saying. You know, is he about that life? I don't know. I don't know. I, I didn't know him well enough. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

[01:23:33] Yeah. I didn't 

[01:23:33] Toliy: know, but 

[01:23:36] Eldar: I don't Yeah. 

[01:23:37] Toliy: Yeah. I, I, I just think in general that people have a very hard time understanding the, uh, truth and wanting to, um, like they, they have a much easier time to just be angry, upset. And, and like try to sit there and convince you that you don't understand. But that's, that's also 

[01:23:54] Mike: fake news.

[01:23:55] I see. The thing is, yeah, like, um, they wanna have that conversation because this is like accepted to have this conversation. Like, oh man, this is fucked up man. The world's bad man. Yeah. And you tell me. Yeah. You know, you're right. The world's fucked up man. This happened to me. That happened to me. 

[01:24:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:08] Mike: But this is the conversation you wanna have.

[01:24:10] If I say all day, you know what? The world's fucked up. I was like, what are you talking about, bro? You have a great job. You have a great house. You have great friends. What's fucked up? What is fucked up? No, no, I 

[01:24:18] Toliy: know, but, but you're not, people 

[01:24:20] Mike: are not having, if you're not having honest conversations, for sure.

[01:24:23] The world's fucked up. No, but that, 

[01:24:24] Toliy: that, that's how it is. People not having honest, but people conversation. I'm not having this 

[01:24:28] Mike: conversations because nobody's challenged them. Hundred percent. But if you do, they will be able to have honest conversations. No, no. 

[01:24:34] Toliy: And I'm not in disagreement with that. I completely agree with that.

[01:24:37] But I'm saying is that they're not in an environment and they have not brought up in particular ways to, like, that's why I was saying. I think when I initially brought this, like top topic up to, to you is that like, like to, to me, the way that this anger and lessness in people's life breeds is them not growing up in a setting where their beliefs are, are, are, uh, challenged.

[01:25:01] Instead, they're kind of just told that they, uh, could be, they're like understood or they find a group that understands them. Mm-hmm. Right? And then they, um, well, no, 

[01:25:09] Eldar: no, no. That's the, the That's a very good point, what you're saying. Totally. But what's happening, at least in the platform of the world, of the soci society or the social media, right?

[01:25:18] You come into to find out that there's a misbalance and the misbalance. Is that like, okay, I'm on the left. Oh shit. On my side, people kill other side. You know, let's just say like, oh shit, I don't like that. Mm-hmm. Like, I stand for the disagreement. I stand for free speech, but I don't want anybody killed.

[01:25:35] Oh shit, I gotta abandon myself. I gotta look for something else. On the right side, you same thing, you know, you're like, oh shit, I disagree with this, this, and the third. But yo, they're a little bit violent too. I, I don't want, I don't wanna stand for that. Mm-hmm. So what's happening slowly, I think, is that people are gonna start looking for a new church.

[01:25:52] And I think that's where we come in. 

[01:25:53] Toliy: No, but I also think 

[01:25:54] Eldar: a lot of people we adopt, I think the individuals who are in between. No, but I think like, yo, this shit ain't working. This shit ain't working. We're we're 

[01:26:00] Toliy: preaching you. No, no. But I feel like a lot of people who start to seek that kind of stuff, they start to get convinced that that actual behavior is correct.

[01:26:08] Eldar: What behavior? 

[01:26:09] Toliy: Tho tho those, tho those things were like, no, a lot of people 

[01:26:12] Eldar: do, but a lot of people don't underestimate that. They're gonna start looking somewhere else. They're gonna start flipping. If they can't flip to the right or to the left, right, they're gonna start looking for somewhere else.

[01:26:23] They're gonna distance themselves. And that's, I think, where we come in. We're not there or there. Mm-hmm. We're in the middle. 

[01:26:29] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:26:29] Eldar: Our promotion, this whole thing, this whole philosophy podcast is for you. Mm-hmm. For you only to be able to empower you to see that the world is a beautiful place, that you are beautiful yourself, and that you could do magic things, magical things.

[01:26:43] Mm-hmm. In this world, if you actually Yeah. Think it's believing yourself. Think it's difficult 

[01:26:46] Toliy: for people to like, there, there, there are so many things that need to fundamentally change for people to, and I think that have that kind of 

[01:26:52] Mike: outlook. I agree. Outlook. I agree with you and I agree with you and I, I agree.

[01:26:56] It's not easy, but also don't, it's that hard either too. Yeah. It's a, I think it's also super necessary. It's, it's, it's, it's, first of all, I think it's part of the process of, of life's like pad that people eventually in different points or different, like, uh, what is it, reincarnations of their lives.

[01:27:12] They're, we're all going towards it anyway. Well, yeah. 

[01:27:15] Toliy: In the reincarnation Sure. But in, in people's lives, like the way I'm seeing it more and more is that like there's a continue, like with the way that things are going, there's like less of a promotion of morality and of ethics and of good. But that's also like, uh, 

[01:27:31] Mike: you know, whoever you surround yourself with is what you're gonna get.

[01:27:34] Yeah. If they come in here where they're gonna become philosophers. Yeah. If they come in here, no. But the masses are now, if they aren't there, no. What do you mean the masses? 

[01:27:42] Eldar: I mean, we're, we're public now. 

[01:27:44] Toliy: Yeah, 

[01:27:44] Eldar: no, 

[01:27:44] Toliy: I know. Yeah. But I'm saying is that like, we're just not doing 

[01:27:46] Eldar: the marketing? No, I know. We're holding 

[01:27:48] Toliy: people away.

[01:27:48] No, no, no. I know, but I'm saying is that like the, like the masses in their ignorant ways without like one-to-one therapy? These people are fucked. Well, 

[01:27:58] Mike: yeah. Maybe today, but not tomorrow. One person at a time. Yeah. That's, that's the thing 

[01:28:04] Toliy: is that to, to move this mountain of, of crazy ignorance that's been built up over 30 years.

[01:28:09] Eldar: Yeah. But totally not 

[01:28:10] Toliy: a lot of this stuff. 

[01:28:11] Eldar: Like, I don't think we have to move the mountain. I think the mountains that these, those 

[01:28:14] Mike: mountains are made of fucking chalk, bro. First of 

[01:28:15] Eldar: all, they, first of all, they made of nothing. That's number one. Okay. Number two, the, the mountains that are already established, mouth and solely they have to die with that shit.

[01:28:23] We've agreed upon that. Sure. Certain generations have to pass away 

[01:28:27] Toliy: in order for them to, no, but the thing is that the, that the young generation is like, like, um, in, in just like a re recent interview with, with, uh, I was, I was watching Dana White and they were asking him some, somebody was asking him like, Hey, do you, do you advise like the president?

[01:28:44] And he goes, no, I don't really give him advice. He's like, but I did give him advice one time. He's like, the Nel Boys, like something about the Nel Boys wanted to have him on. And he was kind of like, like, no, like these fucking, like, yeah, these fucking kids. Or like mm-hmm. Stuff like that. And then it ended up being where like Dana White.

[01:29:01] Um, um, like he, he asked, uh, Trump if he can, if he can bring them with him. They were traveling somewhere to bring him on Air Force One. 

[01:29:10] Mm-hmm. 

[01:29:10] Nel Boys went on Air Force one Mm. With Trump, with Dana White. Yeah. And they, I don't know, they, they, they went to some thing, or like, I don't know, maybe it, some kind of UFC fight or some kind of event.

[01:29:19] Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, and afterwards he, he said like, oh, like, like he, he, uh, like Trump had a better outlook of these people. And then Dana White advised me like, Hey, if you wanna win, you gotta go on these podcasts. Mm-hmm. You gotta go and get involved with these young people, because that's what the influence is, right?

[01:29:36] Yeah. So then Trump, after that. He was the one that started doing it. And then he said that, like, the Democrats started seeing this. Yeah. And then Kamala wanted to go on with like Joe Rogan or like, go on. Like, I, I think Kamala went on like the, the, uh, the call me Daddy. Uh, podcast. Podcast, yeah. Podcast one thing.

[01:29:52] Right. She started wanting to do shit too. So like he started going on people Twitch streams and like Yeah. With Aiden Ross. You went in history. Yeah, I saw a 

[01:30:00] Mike: whole thing. Yeah. Like I just watched the video. Yeah. Not the one you watched, but he went on like the Aiden Ross. He went on Theo Von he won on Joe Rogan.

[01:30:06] Theo, yeah. All like the Dana White kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Oh, certain demographic of people. Yes. Because the votes, the votes are there. The young kids are there. 

[01:30:13] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. So what's your point? I trying to tie it somewhere in the, you said nothing. No, I was trying to say some, something about that. Like the, the, um, young generation is just like, I, I just view them as like they're very easily influenced right now.

[01:30:28] Yeah. And. Yes. They, that also means that their, their shit can be completely dispelled and they can also be influenced. It's too easy the opposite way because they, the, yeah, their arguments 

[01:30:38] Eldar: hold no water. But like if you sit any of them down and you talk to 'em one-on-one or whatever, what are they gonna say, bro?

[01:30:44] Toliy: No, I know, but you're not gonna be able to provide the masses that kind of one-on-one on touch. No. 

[01:30:47] Mike: But also there's only like seven people that exist in the world. Yeah, exactly. If you look, everybody's following somebody. Yeah. Everything is just copying. It's a copycat and that's all you need. Yeah. 

[01:30:58] Eldar: You, that's it.

[01:30:59] That's it. All you need is one and then not one. One got sparked. And when you get, we get triggered that you put a virus in him, it's over. He's gonna virus everybody else. Yes. 

[01:31:07] Toliy: Yep. 

[01:31:07] Eldar: But that's the, do you think think that he would 

[01:31:08] Toliy: virus, like if someone's used to, for example, an influencer? Mm-hmm. Right. And then like you're able to convince that person otherwise, or you have a conversation, that person completely changes.

[01:31:18] Yeah. Do you think his fans will ban him? 

[01:31:21] Eldar: No. Impossible. 

[01:31:22] Toliy: You don't think the fans will turn against 

[01:31:24] Eldar: No, I don't think so. 

[01:31:25] Toliy: I think they would. How 

[01:31:27] Eldar: so? If the message is right, bro, I 

[01:31:28] Toliy: think they would, 

[01:31:29] Eldar: it's impossible if the message is right, it's, I It's impossible. It's impossible. No, but 

[01:31:32] Toliy: I think that they would be like, yo, what the fuck?

[01:31:34] Like, like, like imagine like what? Like what are we talking about here? Like, a good example is like Andrew Tate, right? Yeah. But he, he has like a very particular following. Yeah. And a very particular type of like male demographic Sure. Follows him and likes his shit and is all about his shit. Yeah. Right.

[01:31:50] Like, and he's viewed upon as like the, the, the top g the alpha male. He's a loser bro. He was the biggest loser, bro. Yeah. E he, even Darren tell stuff, he, he's a little bitch, you know, he's a loser bro. He's the biggest simp I've met. So, but, but I'm saying is that he's viewed upon this. Yeah. Right. And he has this alpha male personality that people like, you know, the girls, the cars, the money.

[01:32:09] Yeah. The right. If he started switching his tune, like completely different, I think his followers would ban him. I think that they're already. Indoctrinated. Yeah. I feel like they'll, they'll fucking run his ass over. 

[01:32:20] Eldar: Well, in that sense, the fucking hurt 

[01:32:22] Toliy: is gonna keep 

[01:32:22] Eldar: on going. The the thing is, the thing is totally like you, you, you started it.

[01:32:26] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You under the impression that he will be replaced by something lower by you. Crazy. 

[01:32:35] Toliy: What? What, what do you mean by replaced? By something lower? Like 

[01:32:37] Eldar: if we were to sit him down here Right. And put the shit on him. Right. And he's now singing Al Tune, he'll be much stronger, a much more influential figure.

[01:32:50] And a lot more people will go for him. 

[01:32:52] Toliy: No, but if he was, like, if he sat with us and became a polished product over many years and then came out to yes, but no, he's gonna be in the public and he is gonna be in his world as he is still developing and he's not gonna have that strength. That like some, some of future Oh, that, that's what you mean.

[01:33:08] You mean like the 

[01:33:09] Eldar: development? If, if, if his development is witness, that's when, if, if, if you're telling Mer he just goes 

[01:33:14] Toliy: and hiding for a decade and he studies with you in a cave, well, no. What? And then he comes out. No, no, no, no. What's gonna, 

[01:33:18] Eldar: no, what's gonna happen is, here's what's gonna happen. We sit him down, we, you gonna scold his ass.

[01:33:25] You, you're gonna spank his ass. You're gonna take his pants off and spank him on, on the podcast. Um, after you spank him. All the fans that hated him is gonna be our fans. Mm-hmm. Right? And all the other fans are gonna start doubting him. Mm-hmm. But they're gonna stick with him long enough, I think, in order to see a transformation or a change.

[01:33:44] And they'll be like, oh shit. And they're gonna start questioning their own beliefs as well. And he's gonna have to then speak to them and convince 'em then to be like, yo, mm-hmm. I was wrong about shit. Yeah. This is better shit. 

[01:33:55] Toliy: Yeah. I, I just feel that like, like that would be a salvation. That's his salvation way, the way I view it.

[01:34:00] That's the only way you, you brought all these people with like, broken glasses and pitchforks and like swords to like bat ifield. 

[01:34:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:34:08] Toliy: And then like right before the war ha happens, you, you, you, you start to be like, Hey guys, maybe we should have some compassion for the other side. Like Yeah, but the, let's preach peace.

[01:34:16] But the people are, these motherfuckers are running, get the fuck outta my way. We're we ready to fight? No, they're not. Are you? Are you? No chance. Yeah. 

[01:34:23] Mike: Like if you want to use like an alpha, beta thing. Yeah. They're gonna follow what's what he's saying. Yeah. If he says, yo, drop the guns and the bullets. Yeah.

[01:34:29] Pick up some violins. Yeah. A bunch of puss. I They're gonna pick up violins. He raise a of pussy, bro. You cannot have your own like, empowerment. Are you kidding? Faculties are and, and Yes. And then just follow. Yes. You cannot. They're, they're, he's the alpha because everybody beneath him is following him.

[01:34:44] Video is listening. 

[01:34:45] Toliy: Well, well, no, but that's, that's it's not necessarily believe in it. Well, well, no. Yeah. But, but he's also summoning a particular alpha type figure that they have grown to agree with. Yeah. But it's not doing the trick, bro, to what 

[01:34:57] Mike: he's saying. They just, they think they understand what he is saying.

[01:35:00] But those people don't want to be like that. They want to be alphas, but not like, he's not an alpha, first of all. But they, no, but come on. Like they perceive it. They, they, they think that they want this. They think they understand that. Yeah. But they, they buying his shit and he's a fraud. Now imagine if he's a real.

[01:35:16] If he actually has some substance behind him. 

[01:35:18] Toliy: Yeah. But I think that substance takes time to understand and to process and to, like, that's why I think his salvation would be to be 

[01:35:24] Eldar: able to slowly convince his fans that he was wrong all along. Well, he probably eventually will. No, this is happening already.

[01:35:31] You think so? A hundred percent. It's, it's already started. 

[01:35:35] Toliy: How, how? Like I see 

[01:35:36] Eldar: he doesn't have a voice anymore. If you don't really say he don't say nothing. Mm. What do you, what do you mean? Like, I just, what is he saying? Like what is he saying? 

[01:35:45] Toliy: Yeah, but in what way? Like, 

[01:35:47] Eldar: like, well, you tell me. What is he saying?

[01:35:48] What is he saying that's appealing to you or to someone else? It's not appealing to me's what I'm saying. What is he saying? 

[01:35:54] Mike: There's like a, the reason these people have like this hype and then they again, nobodies is because they're saying nothing. Eventually the people, uh, the yelling, the shit he's yelling time, they're gonna grow out of it, bro.

[01:36:06] Like Yeah. And like, all right, this is actually not working. Yeah. Which is not gonna work. Uh, or if this shit is bs, which it is bs, like there's no substance there. That's why now someone new celebrity's gonna come and he's gonna be the new fucking top G or Yeah, whatever you want him to be like, there's all these people, but their shit is very shortlived, especially in society that we have today.

[01:36:27] All these guys that they're gone one day and they're gone the next whatever, you know, they're not staying around relevant because yeah, this shit is boring. It's not, it's corny and it's not even real. It's no substance behind it. There's no truth behind it. It's gonna die out. 

[01:36:45] Toliy: So, yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I agree with that, but I'm saying is that I feel like, um.

[01:36:54] People are gonna resist, like, I think the, the, uh, like the concept of accountability and truth and what's really happening, what's really going on, and point a finger at yourself like you will first do everything in your power to not to, to, to run away from that and go against that before you do go with it.

[01:37:12] Eldar: Yeah. But like I said, I think that the weeds are starting to be, the weeds and the cream of the crop is gonna pop out, and I think it's inevitable that we get discovered. It's inevitable that people will start paying attention and listening to actually what's going on and start bett putting chips in, in, on, on themselves versus the external world.

[01:37:30] Yeah. I don't know if like, 'cause I, I don't think if anybody else is speaking or saying that like 

[01:37:34] Toliy: Yeah. The thing is that I don't know if people ever, like, like in this case, I think it's too hard to bet on yourself because like, it, it, again, it requires fault and responsibility and being wrong and like admitting and failing and doing all, all that which people don't wanna do.

[01:37:51] I think they, they. They just wanna find responsible parties. They wanna find excuses, and they wanna move, move on, and figure out a way to get what they want. 

[01:38:00] Eldar: Yeah. And, and I think that our, at least our understanding of it all, that's perfectly fine too. 

[01:38:04] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:38:05] Eldar: You know, we like to pack everyone's lunchboxes and say, go test your own theory, no problem.

[01:38:09] Yeah, they do. We'll, we'll be here. We'll be here when you, when you, uh, test it. 

[01:38:12] Mike: Yeah. But they want to do it until they don't also. Exactly. Eventually that shit runs out. Yeah. Like it ran out for you. Ran out for you. Yeah. There's a reason it ran out. Yeah. You know, and I think there's plenty of other people out there who are, it's gonna run out for as time progresses as 

[01:38:30] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:38:30] And like, I don't know, I think that people are gonna see the difference between the divisiveness sooner or later and gonna say like, okay, so who's standing on something different? You know what I mean? Because these people are so crazy here. These people are so crazy on this side. Both are radical. I'm trying to find the middle way.

[01:38:48] I think that's a natural soul's position that's looking for that after all the dust settles. You know what I mean? And I think that, uh, we're gonna have to tend to a lot of people that are looking for that middle 

[01:38:59] ground. You know what I'm saying? 

[01:39:02] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:03] Eldar: And that's it naturally, I think, organically. 

[01:39:07] Toliy: Mm-hmm.

[01:39:08] Eldar: Yeah. More than anything, 

[01:39:09] you know, because I'm not against fucking trans people. 

[01:39:14] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:14] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? I'm not against for religious people. 

[01:39:16] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:17] Eldar: I'm not against any of these people. 

[01:39:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:39:19] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? I don't have a, a preference, you know, the gaze or whatever. I don't, I'm not against any of those people.

[01:39:24] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:25] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? I'm trying to understand a phenomenon. That's it. 

[01:39:29] Mike: That Yeah. 

[01:39:30] Eldar: You know, it happens. You know what I mean? That's part of life, you know? Mm-hmm. Now tell me why I'd like to have a conversation around that. You know what I mean? What's your side? What's your side? And it is what it is.

[01:39:41] Like, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. It's your, at the end of the day, if, if it's not a choice in the matter, then it's not a choice in the matter, but if it's a choice in the matter, you made that choice. And I think that at least the way we speak about it, the way we talk about these things, we always allow the choice in the matter.

[01:39:55] And I think that's different than what I'm at least hearing what's out there. 

[01:39:58] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:58] Eldar: Where everybody's trying to funnel you one way or the other saying, oh, that's a fucking sin. Or this is like, no, it's a freedom of choice. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. I think that the, they can receive the most amount of compassion, both sides if they actually pay attention.

[01:40:13] But the other thing is that the truth of the matter is, I think that if you do come across a podcast, it's probably a huge blessing and not a lot of people probably are ready for that blessing yet. 

[01:40:27] Toliy: Hmm. 

[01:40:29] Eldar: I'm gonna have to end it on that. 

[01:40:29] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:40:30] Eldar: So if you discovered us, stick around 

[01:40:33] Toliy: the, the, uh, the way to get around it in the hack will be a, a AI.

[01:40:39] That's why I told you, I 

[01:40:39] Eldar: think they're gonna expose us, bro. Yeah. I think the AI is gonna expose us. 

[01:40:42] Toliy: Yeah. 'cause a, a AI doesn't need to like, grow like a sack to like li to like listen to this or mm-hmm. Yeah. Whatever, you know, like they're, they're gonna advise based on content. Correct. And all the, I told you this before, thousands of hours of, of, of 

[01:40:57] Eldar: information.

[01:40:58] Correct. 

[01:40:59] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:41:00] Eldar: Are they're gonna say who's doing it? Who found the fucking middle way? And if it's 

[01:41:03] us. Alright. It's gonna be inevitable, bro. 

[01:41:06] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:41:08] Eldar: You know, baby, are you ready? 

[01:41:12] Toliy: Yes. Yay. Mm-hmm. 

[01:41:13] Eldar: Alright. Final thoughts 

[01:41:15] or is that good? 

[01:41:17] Toliy: No, that's good. That's good. 

[01:41:19] Eldar: I'm 

[01:41:19] Toliy: good. 

[01:41:19] Eldar: Alright guys. Thank you. So whatever you gotta do, click that subscribe button or fucking some other weird shit that you fucking promote.