188. Screw Perfection: Why Mistakes Build Unbreakable Kids (and Adults)

How do you teach kids (or even adults) without being overly controlling?

Ever caught yourself helicopter-parenting your kid away from a "lesson" like hot sauce curiosity—only to wonder if you're raising a fearless explorer or a bubble-wrapped worrier like Toliy? In this raw, laugh-out-loud episode of Dennis Rox Podcast, hosts Eldar, Joe, Katherine, Mike, and Toliy dive headfirst into the messy magic of learning from mistakes in parenting and beyond. Drawing from real-life chaos—like Joe's toddler Benny's spicy tongue adventure (spoiler: one dab = zero future nagging) and Eldar's bloody skateboarding scars that forged unbreakable confidence—they unpack why letting go of control isn't just nice; it's essential for child development and adult growth.

From overprotective "no's" that spark paranoia (Katherine's anxious upbringing vs. Eldar's boundary-pushing thrills) to adult "babies" fumbling permits and printers, the crew roasts perfectionism as the ultimate growth-killer. Attachments? They're the sneaky saboteurs turning harmless fails into epic arguments—think Toliy's ego-fueled delegation drama and Joe's dad refusing to hand over the drill. But here's the gold: controlled risks build trust, curiosity kills the cat (then revives it wiser), and even Eldar enters "baby camp" mode, ditching late-night vices to level up for fatherhood.

This isn't fluffy advice—it's battle-tested wisdom on personal growth through pain, delegation without disaster, and why shielding from "boo-boos" creates 30-year-old crybabies. Timestamps for the win:

• [00:03:12] Hot sauce hack: Curiosity vs. control in toddler tantrums
• [00:40:41] Skate scars to self-assurance: Pushing boundaries for confidence
• [00:59:01] Baby camp confessions: Prepping your body (and mind) for parenthood

Building on our deep dives into perfectionism's trap (Ep 181: Why Creativity Feels Like a Curse) and the art of teaching through timely advice (Ep 172: The Art of Teaching: Timing, Trolling, and Transformation), plus owning pain for change (Ep 165: Power of Pain and Personal Change), this ep arms you with tools to foster resilience—without the ER visits.

Ready to trade your inner control freak for a legacy of bold humans? Hit play, subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify for more unfiltered growth gems, and drop a 5-star review sharing your biggest "hot sauce" moment. What's one mistake you're finally letting teach you? Tag us on X @DennisRoxPod—let's build unbreakable bonds together!

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - we can even dissect it on our next episode. Submit your story using this form - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Chapters

• 10:08 Problem Solving and Independence
• 27:17 The Value of Learning from Mistakes
• 38:42 Reflecting on Personal Growth
• 41:14 Building Confidence Through Challenges
• 45:45 The Importance of Competition
• 1:05:53 Final Thoughts on Parenting

Transcript

[00:00:00] Eldar: On this week's episode, you hit it right on the screw, not the nail, the screw. Mm-hmm. It's letting go. It's, it's delegating. It's allowing the individual to fuck up. That's how you build a person as well. 

[00:00:13] Joe: Let this guy stop being controlling. Yeah. Let this guy for sure get to the point where he can hand something off.

[00:00:18] That's right. And being a perfectionist, this is the topic of this, of this podcast, you know, letting someone learn a lesson. 

[00:00:25] Eldar: We push boundaries. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Skateboard, uh, roll blades, bikes. I did it all. I came home bloody all the time. You know what I mean? That's where you learn the boundaries, but that's where I also learned confidence in myself.

[00:00:43] All right guys. Um, for tonight's episode, or the question at hand or the topic, I'm gonna reference or mention the party that we went to babe. We went to, um, our friend Kai's, um, daughter's birthday party. And there was a, I, I would say a man who kind of maybe figured some, some stuff out. Mm-hmm. You know, he's in his sixties, her father, so give a shout out to, uh, what's his name?

[00:01:10] John. John. Right. Um, in his sixties, having fun, enjoying himself. Looks good. You know? Yeah. And, uh, I remember one thing he said, you know, after having many drunk conversations with him mm-hmm. He bought a bunch of tequila, but one that stayed with me is that he said, Eldar, you know what I've learned? I'm like, yeah, what John?

[00:01:31] He goes, I learned not to tell my kids what to do. That is the most important thing when it comes to like, raising kids and, you know, and trying to give advice or not give advice. I'm like, oh, okay, why not? Obviously, I like, I like this conversation. I said, why not? He goes, anytime I did give them something to tell 'em what to do and how to do it, I, I realized that they didn't learn.

[00:01:50] So I stopped telling them what to do. I want 'em to, I want 'em to actually learn on their own. You know, and I was like, wow, that's, you know, obviously I'm like, wow, this is great. You know, this is really insightful. You know, so he's happy with the relationship that he has, you know, they both respect one another, you know, uh, stop it, penny.

[00:02:11] And, um, I just thought that was very important. And again, it's gonna tie into the topic that we're talking about today, especially for Joe who's gonna, who's raising right now, who's kid, you know, maybe there's some limited communication right now because he's still young. But nonetheless, it's gonna get better and better and better and better, where there's gonna be a lot of opportunity for learning, learning opportunities.

[00:02:32] Right? And what style of teaching are you gonna choose, right? Is it gonna be one of those things where you just tell 'em, no, you can't do this, you can't do that. Right. And shield them from the world of learning. Are you gonna allow him to experience and learn through some of the maybe negative experiences, uh, that he might have?

[00:02:51] Like the one you mentioned earlier, Joe, maybe you can mention it again on air. 

[00:02:54] Joe: Yeah. This table time when we're having, uh, dinner or lunch and there's things on the table that obviously aren't for him. Yeah. One of them being, uh, hot sauce bottle. Hot sauce that I use. Yeah. But he, he sees it, he's interested in it, then he starts reaching for it and ask, asking for it, and then grabs it.

[00:03:12] And you know, the first reaction is take it out of his hand, say, Benny, no, uh, this is infuse, this is Dad does, like my wife would say, this is, dad does this is his dad does. But it doesn't really make sense why it's for dad and not for him. And he, he's more interested now when you Yeah. Anytime you try to take something away from him or say no, it create more curiosity.

[00:03:35] So he got to the point where he was like, wouldn't. Let anyone talk or anything. He was overwhelming the, the whole thing by going, mama, mama, ah, and reaching for it. And my wife kept saying, no, no, no, no. And then I, I said. Babe, just give him the, give him the bottle. Give him a little dab on his tongue. It's hot sauce.

[00:03:57] It's not gonna kill him, but he is gonna taste it. One taste is gonna realize I don't want anymore. And then be done with the curiosity part. Yeah. And he is gonna look at it and never ask for it again. And they could sit on the table and we could 

[00:04:09] Eldar: be, be at peace. Be at peace. There you go. Right. But before that, right, it was probably a long period of time of him nagging you guys.

[00:04:15] Mm-hmm. Right. And you saying no using maybe the shortcut of saying like, you know, parenting No, this, no that. But instead, if you really paid attention, if you really like, find out what's actually going on, is that he's curious, 

[00:04:27] Joe: yeahs learning 

[00:04:27] Eldar: about the world. 

[00:04:28] Joe: And I was told, or I learned that it's like, rather than saying no, you could also gotta give an explanation, talk to them just like you would to anyone else.

[00:04:38] Yeah. Instead of saying no, you, you, you say, you know, Hey Benny, I. This isn't, this is very spicy. It's not gonna taste good. It's gonna be yucky. It's not gonna be yum. 

[00:04:48] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:48] Joe: Yeah. Like, that's a good reaction. And it's gonna like, yeah. 

[00:04:51] Katherine: Joe, can I interrupt you for one second? Yeah. I just remembered this story that I wanted you to tell about Benny.

[00:04:56] Joe: Yeah. 

[00:04:57] Katherine: It was, he, um, um, Alana's, um, vitamins were on the counter. Oh, that's right. And she said, no, but you, but I think she explained why she was saying no. 

[00:05:10] Joe: Yep. Yeah, 

[00:05:11] Katherine: you can share that. So, 

[00:05:12] Joe: so it was, we were out for the, the bare knuckle fight. Yeah. And I get a picture, Lana sends me a picture of Benny at the table, all the pills or prenatal pills, and another pill, I forget it was two pills.

[00:05:24] Probiotic. Probiotic. One of which the, the prenatal, the probiotic has iron or, or Foley 

[00:05:32] Katherine: you mentioned. 

[00:05:32] Joe: And it's a high dose. For kids, it could be dangerous. And it was the clear liquid one. And then there was, you know, the other one, which was the, uh, prenatal that was green. Uh, and we weren't sure what he got into.

[00:05:48] Like Alana went to go start the bath. She went upstairs, he was sitting, was sitting at the table. He opened up her jar of pills open, put 'em all over the table, and then he bit into one, the green one, and there's a little powder on his lip. And it was one of the castles was broken. And, uh, my concern was, uh, did he swallow one of those jelly ones?

[00:06:11] But it had the iron in it. 'cause if he did, it could be dangerous. It's like very toxic. So, you know, we're going back and forth and I started looking things up, but when I called, uh, to talk to Alana, he was in the bath and she already scolded him about like, no, Benny not supposed to touch mama's pills.

[00:06:29] These are for mama, not for you. And if you, if you eat these. You could get hurt, you get a boo boo and the ambulance is gonna come and take you to the hospital. We don't want that. So he knows the word ambulance, he knows like boo boo and all that stuff. So when I called to speak to her, I said I was trying to like get that to the bottom of her.

[00:06:48] Like which one did he eat? Blah, blah, blah. 

[00:06:50] Yeah. 

[00:06:50] And she said, she's like, well, she's like, I Benny's in the background listening to me call. And he's, and he already knows I'm on the phone. So now he is like engaging dadda dadda and he wants to like explain what just happened. 

[00:07:04] Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:05] And Alana's like, yeah.

[00:07:06] So I was doing the bath and he goes, dadda dadda. 

[00:07:09] Hmm. 

[00:07:10] So that's like he ate something. Yeah. Right. He wanted to eat something or he was like looking for something to eat. And, and, and, and Alana's likes ahead and you explain it. So he was like, mama dadda. Hmm. Dadda Ooh. Like, I hate something. And because of that I could go to the ambulance, you know?

[00:07:29] Yeah, yeah. He was those two little, like sound effects to just basically like, explain to me, you know, what, what mama explained to him, you know, and he's trying to understand the world. Mm-hmm. And, and we look at it like, okay, you eat that, that's bad. You're gonna get it. You could, you could get it. Damage but him, it's like, it's a kid.

[00:07:48] He sees us eating it. It's a normal thing we do every day. He's curious. He wants to know. And this is one of those lessons where you don't want him to correct, you know, to learn, obviously it's toxic. Correct. So you gotta explain it. Correct. And, you know, he is piecing those things together. It's our job to like not be so irresponsible or like try to be a little more tighter mm-hmm.

[00:08:09] When it comes to putting things out of his way of reach or that anything that could be detrimental or like irreversible or bad, like, you know, like a, a knife, you know? Yeah. At gr at, at, at his reach. A reach to grab it, you know, like if he got his hands on it and, you know, pokes himself, the damage is done 

[00:08:28] Eldar: for sure.

[00:08:29] Joe: You don't want that. But on smaller issues and examples where you could teach, teach him that, uh, you can let him learn his own lesson by, by, by faulting. It's like the hot sauce thing, you know, smaller things, 

[00:08:42] Eldar: 100%. I obviously, you know, uh, hopefully the listeners understand the difference between that type of an example.

[00:08:48] Roy, you, you could clearly have to say no versus the one where you can put a hot sauce on, you know, the tip of his tongue. 

[00:08:53] Joe: Yeah. It's easier, it's clear, easier to do the hot sauce on the tongue rather than 

[00:08:57] Eldar: tell him the problem. Don't eat it. The problem I think is that, you know, parents and a lot of parents, and a lot of people don't recognize the difference between where it's a hard no.

[00:09:06] When there's an opportunity for learning and growth. 

[00:09:08] Joe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:09] Eldar: You know, those two may are blended or maybe parents are too lazy or tired or whatever it is that they don't see that going on. A small journey is like putting hot sauce on your, on, on your son's tongue is a good journey to go on. You know, where it's uh, it's, you know, forever.

[00:09:23] He's gonna remember that. Right. Where, and then there's also trust building where like, okay, Benny, look, I can explain this to you, right? Mm-hmm. It's gonna be spicy, it's gonna be boo boo or whatever it is, right? However, here try it anyway. Mm-hmm. And then he is gonna start an association where like, ah, Joe already knows, my dad already knows because okay, this time I didn't believe him, but now we tried it.

[00:09:43] Next time he is gonna tell me that there's booboo associated with this specific thing. I'm gonna think twice. Should I go and do this? Should I put my hand in the fire or not? Right? So I think that part of that is also building trust. That's true. You know. 

[00:09:56] Joe: Good point. 

[00:09:56] Eldar: Um, but before we continue, uh, gentlemen, on the right probably has about 10 questions minimum of what happened with the pills.

[00:10:03] Go ahead, Tyler. No, no, no, no. 

[00:10:07] Mike: Sick. 

[00:10:08] Joe: There was a time also where he, uh, he, he crawled, he crawled like in between a chair and a couch that like, I, you know, I, I saw him going under and I'm like, I knew it was gonna be a difficult like way to get out. 'cause he was like cramming himself. Yeah. And he got to that point where he sitting there, he's like, cramming.

[00:10:25] He started crying. 

[00:10:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:26] Joe: And then like, Alana went to go get him. I'm like, no, no. Leave him. Leave him. She's like, no, but he's stuck. I'm like, he got in. Yeah. He can get out. Like, yeah. It's not a impossible way to get out. It's an emergency. It's not an emergency. Let him problem solve. Yes. Let him realize back out, turn around, calm down.

[00:10:40] Yes. Instead of just crying and then we just pull him out. Mm-hmm. You're fixing an issue that if you allow the kid to, you know. Be able to get out of something himself. Now he's building that. Correct. You're not gonna have a big baby on your hands. Mm-hmm. Yeah. If you just keep him picking, picking him up or fixing the problem, then you've got someone who doesn't know how to take care of something for themself.

[00:11:02] Eldar: Correct? Mm-hmm. So now this is a very good example that you know, you and you point out, um, and we need to introduce a, a variable called attachment when it comes to teaching these types of lessons, right? For example, in that moment you didn't have attachment right. To anything, let's just say. But Alana did, right?

[00:11:19] And her attachment was crying means bad, bad should stop suffering. Mm-hmm. Real quick. Please, please, please. Let's not do this. You know what I mean? Uh, and then it's harder. Right Now it's like I'm no longer gonna allow my son to have the opportunity to learn, right? To climb out a mess that he got in, right?

[00:11:37] I'm gonna go based on what I'm feeling and you interrupt that experience that they're having, especially her fuse 

[00:11:43] Joe: is shortened because sometimes she just. Oh, also doesn't want to hear the crying. Yeah. Or doesn't wanna go through like this. Yes. You know, like there's a Ca Milan experience. I've always watched him like, yeah, I'll sit here for as long as it takes until the dog cracks.

[00:11:57] Yes. But if I crack, yeah. Dog learns nothing. Correct. So he'll just sit there in the corner. Yeah. Until the dog did, what did it, did what he wanted to do. He goes and the owner would like, how long does this, do we have to do this for? He goes As long as it takes. 

[00:12:10] Eldar: That's right. Mm. That's right. 

[00:12:12] Joe: Because it's the owner that always affected the dog in his episodes.

[00:12:15] And he would come and be like, this is what you gotta do. 

[00:12:18] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:12:19] Joe: It's teaching, letting them like learn it, understand it. 

[00:12:23] Eldar: And this is just small, maybe examples with kids or dogs, but then we have these examples, interactions when we have adults, you know, one example was here. Mm-hmm. With Mike and Tole, for example, adult babies.

[00:12:35] Adult babies, yes. Where we need to drive a point because we have an attachment to that specific point. Mm-hmm. Right. And. Instead of allowing the individual to be wrong, for example. Right. And be patient for as long as it takes in order to finally solidify something that they needed to learn. But a lot of times we want to interrupt that process for our own specific attachments.

[00:12:57] Joe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:59] Mike: But, but it's uh, is it only the attachments that are at play here or is there other factors? 

[00:13:04] Eldar: Well, I just, one of the variables, I said one of the variable Right. For example in, in your conversation with Toley. Yeah. Right. I think that the attachment to, you know, maybe one being right, two, you know, the whole outcome obviously.

[00:13:16] Mm-hmm. And some other attachments are probably prompting him to not see the fact that, look, Mike is saying something and let's just say you are miscommunicating. 'cause you are notoriously notorious to miscommunicate a lot of the times, right? Mm-hmm. Where you use the wrong words to describe something or mm-hmm.

[00:13:30] You're quick to choose the wrong, you know, just words. Mm-hmm. Like I said to Miscommunicate, and if that's your problem. What's the problem of him going to the, to the, to the town right now? Uh, five minute drive and saying, I want to close the permits. And then they saying, oh, you can't close the permits.

[00:13:45] Mm-hmm. What's the problem of them? Him calling you back and saying, Hey, Mike, you told me that you need to close the permits, but they send me back. Mm-hmm. Uh, then it's on you. Yeah. It becomes on you. You have to take the accountability now. Yeah. You allowing him to be accountable for him being wrong.

[00:13:59] Mm-hmm. Then you, he owes him an apology. Mm-hmm. Mike owes totally an apology. Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:14:03] Eldar: Right. Is is the lesson not worth it? Totally. Uh, no. It is, it is worth it. 

[00:14:12] Joe: It's not a big loss or a big in waste of your time or inconvenience. And like, you drop 10,000 and, and they're like, oof, that was a big, that was a big slip up.

[00:14:21] We should, shouldn't have done that. That's a very, very, uh, impactful fuckup. Mm-hmm. But if it's not a huge one, then, uh, and you know, it's, you know, oh, this guy's gonna get it wrong, but let 'em, let 'em do it. 

[00:14:36] Eldar: For his own sake. Yeah. Right. So if you're a good friend and say, okay, Mike is, and totally knows this, totally notoriously, is cri, uh, very, uh, critical or criticizes Mike a lot when it comes to communicating.

[00:14:48] Joe: Well, let, let me, let me say this though. If Toley is like on the side of super productive, don't wanna waste time with like the answer, why, why go through the, you know, at this stage, Mike's an adult and if you can tell him as another adult saying like, Mike, I know what you're thinking, but you're wrong.

[00:15:07] Mm-hmm. Trust me, unless you wanna bet money on it, I'm this confident. You're wasting your time. I already know the answer. Like, we can't close it. 

[00:15:14] Eldar: Well, the truth is, I don't think anybody can have that kind of like authority or confidence in order to really stand on that. Because the truth of the matter is, it totally is not a person who worked in the town and knows all the codes and all the, all the ins and outs of how the shit fucking works.

[00:15:26] So they're both shooting 

[00:15:27] Joe: from the hip and that 

[00:15:28] Eldar: and are the No, I would say that Mike is shooting closer to the hip because, uh, he's working with a contractor, he's working with these people and he's in the constant communication. So why not allow the person that's been assigned to do this, do this? Sure.

[00:15:41] Right. Why, why are you sticking your nose in it and always want to have that control, even if you are right. 

[00:15:48] Joe: Yeah. I mean, it, it doesn't really affect Toy's Day or his outcome if, if Mike would've had to go through the process. Yeah. Unless like, and Toley can speak on it otherwise, like, well, that, yeah, that what, what, what, what, what drove you to like, feel like if he didn't get intervened for that specific thing?

[00:16:07] Like, it, it, it would've. 

[00:16:09] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean 

[00:16:11] Joe: affected things. 

[00:16:12] Toliy: I def like in the moment, I definitely wasn't viewing this as like, this is like a huge, important variable. I just just felt like we're in conversation. Yeah, yeah. But the way you were driving the point No, I, 

[00:16:23] Mike: I think, yeah, the thing is like I think we all can correct each other, right?

[00:16:28] In general, when somebody misspeaks for sure, but there was like a certain umph about it, 100% to drive a point that showed, it wasn't just like, oh, hey, you said A instead of B. I felt disgusting. All things, bro. Like, I'm sorry. Listening to it, you right? Yeah. I felt nasty listening to it, I think. Yeah. I wasn't even sure what's happening because you guys both yelling in the whole thing.

[00:16:45] I'm like, yeah, I didn't want to hear it. What's happening? Yeah, I didn't want to hear that. Yeah. This is 

[00:16:48] Katherine: while you guys were on the phone, right? Correct. Yeah. Mike was in in my car. Yes. Yeah, I remember hearing. Yeah. But it's just like, you could hear them two big three. Oh, there was like yelling in the background.

[00:16:57] Didn't, but it's totally yelling. 

[00:16:58] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know what that, it was like a whole funny situation. But yeah, I think again, there's all, like, there's, you can correct somebody, right? Like that's fine. But sometimes there when it comes with an extra, um, outfit's not felt the same way. Like Correct. If you would've say, yo, actually I think you might be wrong about this one.

[00:17:12] I wouldn't have been like taking it any certain type of way. Be like, oh, okay. I was, I might be, I might be wrong. I said actually no, totally. Or if I was wrong. Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry. Yeah. And we could have like, it was like a mutual conversation. 

[00:17:22] Joe: Yeah. 

[00:17:23] Mike: Versus there's a conversation where we're not like gonna, 

[00:17:26] Joe: but it's totally, was totally taken a position where it is just like, I know more than you.

[00:17:29] I know I'm better than you. Like egotistical, ver like, uh, higher. 

[00:17:35] Eldar: 100%. 100%. Which it came off, it came off with an ump where it's like. I know this point, this is a hundred percent true and you ought to listen to me. 

[00:17:43] Joe: Yeah. 

[00:17:44] Eldar: And the truth is, it's not, Mike can give him an update now about what Andy said and how they're playing this whole thing out.

[00:17:49] Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's, it's completely different. Yeah. So if 

[00:17:51] Joe: he would've said, Hey, Mike, like, like, 

[00:17:54] Eldar: no, I, which I didn't know at that time. I just didn't like the way he was coming across in the first place. So 

[00:17:58] Joe: it was, it was delivery, but he was 

[00:18:00] Eldar: wrong. 

[00:18:00] Joe: And it was the delivery. So if he says, Hey, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the case?

[00:18:05] Correct. And it would've like, I, I think it could be like this, I don't know. What do you think? And it, it's a slightly different, uh, delivery where you're like leaving the room say like, I could be wrong, but I, I have a feeling like it could, this could be a issue. 

[00:18:23] Eldar: Yeah. This was not the way you came across.

[00:18:25] You give Yeah. 

[00:18:26] Joe: It's like a nudge, like saying like, you know, may, maybe you wanna reevaluate your, your steps here. 'cause I think there might be an issue even if you like know for a fact. When you're giving someone like the option to make a decision, you know, the problem. Yeah. I mean 

[00:18:42] Toliy: I, I, I definitely wasn't taking like this much stock into the conversation about like that.

[00:18:47] I just remember that during the conversation, um, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike said, so something like twice where it was like the wrong thing. So like, I dunno, may, may, maybe there was like, you know, um, umph from like that, well, what was the second thing? I know, I, no, no, I remember about 

[00:19:03] Mike: the permit thing. No, it 

[00:19:04] Toliy: was the same thing.

[00:19:04] Just it was like twice said, repeated it said, no, they're closed. And then I'm like, no, they're not. Right. Well, that's, that's true. They're not closed. Mike just said they're closed. Yeah. So like, I just repeated myself, like I said, yeah, we gotta close them, but may maybe there was like, um, from like that, but like, I, I, I definitely was not taking this kind of like, I don't know, this like, egotistical thing.

[00:19:22] Like I, I, I know that the last conversation we, we had, uh, because I have been involved in this thing, right? How could you not be, if you're 

[00:19:31] Eldar: sticking your nose into it, the time that 

[00:19:32] Toliy: we're, we decided that we're, we're like. Um, when there, so there's three different permits. There's, there's, um, electric building and gas.

[00:19:41] Mm-hmm. And when we passed building, we were like, Hey, let's go close those. And I'm like, okay, sure. So I called to the town, um, to say like, Hey, do I have to bring something? Like, I don't know, I have to pay something. Or like, what? They were like, no, you could just close 'em. Like, okay, so I can just come in and close building.

[00:19:57] And then they're like, oh, well what's your permit number? Like, what's your address? I give 'em it. And then they, they told me that you need to have all of them done to close them, because they're all in the same project, so you can't just close building, but I have the others open. 

[00:20:10] Joe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:11] Toliy: So I'm like, okay.

[00:20:12] So then that, and then middle of the way through, through all this, um, they obviously were talking about this like Tesla charger, and they gave us a hard time about that. And then, um, we spoke with, um, elders, a neighbor who's an electrician, and he, and I think he, he was the one that said that the easiest ways, like, don't close a permit actually, because.

[00:20:35] You can just get a variant to your existing one rather than opening a whole new one completely. So, like, this is to me where like we left, left off of, and then we were talking to different contractors, like, about this, about like, you know, there was 

[00:20:49] Eldar: another person that came in and gave different advice.

[00:20:52] There was three people that came, there was three people that came. Mike was handling all 

[00:20:55] Joe: this. Mm-hmm. So if he, but if totally is like, told to not be involved while, why is he still being like, that's a different conversation. That's a different conversation. Yeah. Do that. But, but 

[00:21:03] Eldar: if you are involved, right.

[00:21:04] If you're gonna say it right, first of all, like I said, like the, the attachment that he had or the way he was coming across, it's like he was a hundred percent certain about what's going on and what the next steps should be. Like he's now the educator, 

[00:21:15] Toliy: well, it was certain that the permits were not closed and he repeated like multiple times.

[00:21:19] Well, that we agreed and then he agreed on that, no, they're closed because the last inspection's done. And then I was like, no, they're not. So maybe like, like I said, my ump maybe came from like that kind of scenario, but like, yeah, like I, I, I definitely don't take like this much like, uh. 

[00:21:33] Joe: But if you said, okay, fine.

[00:21:35] You know, if, if you say so, like what, what? It's like taking the, taking defeat when knowing like, okay, if you know your answer is, is correct, but he's not getting it, or it's not like, you know, gonna listen and you go, okay, fine. If that's what you say, yeah. You know, well, we'll see. No, sure. I'm not arguing that.

[00:21:55] That definitely Okay. That could, 

[00:21:58] Toliy: sure. Yeah. But yeah, I didn't, yeah, I definitely didn't take this much like, you know. 

[00:22:03] Joe: Yeah. 

[00:22:03] Eldar: Well I think, I think what happens, I think a lot of times when we, on automatic pilot, especially when it comes to like arguing, or if we do have a attachment to one thing, one thing to another, we're not gonna be taking stock of what's actually going on like that or taking it that seriously.

[00:22:16] But the, the serious of situation is actually happening right in front of you. Yeah. You know what I mean? And because you are oblivious, like you said, you, you won't take the time to sit down and look at the dog and like, what the fuck do you want? You know what I mean? And take that enough time to be able to really find out what is needed and what kind of medications need to be applied in this specific situation.

[00:22:34] Mm-hmm. But then I explained to him what's happening here, and he agreed with me. Right. Let's just say that totally is right, which actually he wasn't. Right. Let's just say that. Right. Um, allow Mike to fall on his, on his face. Mm-hmm. Let him learn this lesson. Yeah. Let, hi, let us again reiterate to Mike and say, Mike, you are back communicator.

[00:22:57] You know what I'm saying? Let's see this. Well, the thing happened with the printers, right? With the 

[00:23:02] Katherine: printer, but the price to pay is high. That means more delayment, like more delays on using, if you have attachment using, using, you have attachments. I wasn't even considering that. Especially this No, I, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm thinking like, okay.

[00:23:13] Like, yeah. I, I, 

[00:23:14] Toliy: I wasn't even 

[00:23:15] Mike: considering that. No, I think it's, I think I, I think it's deeper. It is deeper than the attachment thing. 

[00:23:21] Joe: Well, this situation specifically is sensitive to everyone now because of everyone got dragged through the mud on this whole thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Correct. For sure. And everyone's tensions are high.

[00:23:29] Everyone's tempers are, are high. Yeah. It pisses me off, bro. That's why like confused are short. Yes. Yeah. 100%. And, and, and when slip up from me, so when I hear this, 

[00:23:38] Eldar: when I hear these confusions and all this other fucking crap that's going on, 

[00:23:42] Joe: yeah. 

[00:23:42] Eldar: When I already appointed a person who's supposed to be in charge, you know what I mean?

[00:23:46] And we will do whatever it takes mm-hmm. In order to bring it to the end. You know what I'm saying? I want him to fucking do it. You shifted. Yeah. 

[00:23:53] Mike: But see, that's the problem. You know what I'm saying? That's the, the, I believe at least that attachment is that Yeah. That you appointed. But he maybe doesn't look at me as competent.

[00:24:02] Yeah. So that's going to like 100%. Like, and I think he's probably not gonna look at most people as competent. Yeah. In general. Like, so I think that's gonna be the problem. That's why the response Yeah. Is not based with a thought thing. It's based on what the true actually belief system inside. Sure. Yeah.

[00:24:18] You know, and that's why it came out the way it did. Okay. It was like an automated response, because he doesn't, he's like, he doesn't want go through this process, know, you know, but 

[00:24:27] Joe: Totally has a, a Does he have, like, do you have like, sort of like a control, a controlling type of personality? Like let's say, you know, like there's a task, I don't know, make, make mistakes or make the coffee or make.

[00:24:42] Whatever the thing may be there. Like you've, you've gotten down, you know how to do it. And if anyone is, is he the 

[00:24:47] Eldar: hovering dad? 

[00:24:48] Joe: Yes. If anyone comes into the space. No, I definitely Why'd call the dad? He's a hovering dad. No, no, no, no. You're doing it wrong. Let me do it. Yeah, no, I definitely, my dad does me time have more 

[00:24:57] Toliy: like a Yeah.

[00:24:58] Difficulty to delegate and like, not think about that. 

[00:25:01] Joe: Well, let's someone else try it and mm-hmm. Not do as good of a job or fuck up. 'cause I'll tell you why. 'cause I was doing a lot of renovations at the house. Right. On my dad and my dad. If like, if there is a line that's like slightly off, you know, he will, he, he, he will drive him crazy.

[00:25:19] He'll wanna fix it, dad, there's not enough time. Let's just move forward. No, we gotta do it. Or if I'm, if I'm in an angle where like he can't drill a screw in, so I'm like, gimme the gun, I'll screw it in. Mm-hmm. And he, he, no, no. I'll, I'll screw it. I go, I'm at a better angle. Gimme the gun. He won't give it.

[00:25:35] No, no, no, no. I, I'll screw you don't know how to screw it in. Wow. I don't know how to screw it in. You don't have enough trust that I can screw Yes. And then I can screw it in straight. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. Y'all guy. Yeah, you could screw in straight. I can, I can. I hear it. And as I'm doing, he goes, you screw, you put in crooked.

[00:25:54] And, and then at that point I'm like, I'm, yes. I'm like, what do you mean I'm putting it in crooked. What you identical fucking level, A level in your eyeball. I can tell. I'm like, it's going in, it's doing the job. Like, yeah, but like it like. You know, the perfectionist in him Yeah. Won't allow anyone else to take control of a situation just because they have a feeling of like, uh, this, this like overwhelming feeling, like it's not gonna be done.

[00:26:21] Right. Therefore, like, I'm gonna do it. And if you get involved, you're gonna fuck it up. And that pisses them off. He 

[00:26:27] Katherine: can't trust 

[00:26:28] Joe: anyone else. And then I get pissed off because like, yeah. You don't think I can fucking put a screw in? Yeah. I'm fucking 40 years old. I have many hats I wear. Yeah. The, the, the professions I have, I outweigh my dad's.

[00:26:40] Yeah. By far. I like know a lot of things. Yeah. And I can't put it in a screw, like, you know, so I go, I, I'm like, you drive me crazy. Like, just, just like fucking give up the control aspect of it. Yeah. So like, I don't know if this relates or if this is something you could, you could kind of equ to, but like here it is a situation where.

[00:27:02] I don't know. If things are in your hand at one point and now you gotta pass it to someone. My father can't do that. I don't know if that, if that's similar, does this 

[00:27:09] Eldar: 100% okay. You hit it right on the screw, not the nail, the screw. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's letting go. Yeah.

[00:27:18] It's, it's delegating. It's allowing the individual to fuck up. Let him fuck up. Let him be an idiot. You know what I'm saying? It's okay. Yeah. You know what I mean? But that's how you build a person as well. Mm-hmm. And I'm not saying we're fucking doing this because fucking Mike can't fucking makes phone calls and fuck, we could do this too.

[00:27:33] You know what I'm saying? But out of what cost, you know what I mean? Like I said, I'm too compromised and attached to the shit. You know what I'm, so, I wanna sue the whole town, you know what I mean? Because of the shit, you know? That's why I'm okay with that. You know what I mean? 

[00:27:46] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:27:46] Eldar: But he's not, well, yeah.

[00:27:48] If there's, this is a continuation. Yes. That's why the attachments are not gonna allow for room for growth for anything else, or advancement. Mm-hmm. You know, and doing it with more grace. I 

[00:27:58] Toliy: didn't, I didn't feel in that moment like I'm attached to like. Like, whatever. It's like I feel like I'm hearing like wrong information and then like, so what?

[00:28:05] Yeah. 

[00:28:06] Joe: Again, so what if I was told like, yo, I'm gonna take care of this. You don't gotta worry about nothing, I'm gonna do it for you. And you could walk away and go do whatever else you want to do and like, tell me when it's done and check out. 

[00:28:19] Toliy: Yeah. But that hasn't been like the, like, the scenario, like I'm like, I still involved, I still participate in it.

[00:28:25] Why 

[00:28:25] Joe: you choose to, or someone brings you back in. Does he make you do things 

[00:28:30] Eldar: well? Like, no, it's not like, well, he's, he's the owner, so certain things 

[00:28:33] Mike: he has to do. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like the, the only things that I ask him to do is to call the town. Okay. And gimme the paperwork. I also 

[00:28:38] Toliy: don't have to do, do that.

[00:28:39] Like, they don't, they don't say This is the owner, or like, there's nothing to like, so if you called as toley, they don't even ask 

[00:28:45] Mike: what, 

[00:28:45] Joe: what the name is. Oh, are you sure I can, yeah. So why don't you just do that and cut 'em out completely? Put him in the dark closet. Listen, if we knew that from the jump we would've, we would've done that.

[00:28:54] But we don't know 

[00:28:55] Eldar: the protocols of how this 

[00:28:56] Mike: fucking works already works. Already has. First of all, they all know him there, they all been speaking to him there. And so they don't hear, and I'm not sure I'm saying they're gonna hear his voice, but like they know him. No. What do you mean now? Oh, 

[00:29:04] Toliy: no, no, no. I was saying to Joe, like, like, like as far as like the owner, like he doesn't have to be 

[00:29:09] Mike: No, I, I'm not sure about that, but, well, I'm calling on behalf of, of Tolley to the account.

[00:29:13] Sure. Yeah. Maybe we could do, but now it's like a, it's already, 

[00:29:17] Joe: it's 

[00:29:17] Mike: almost the 

[00:29:18] Joe: end of this thing, you know? Yeah. So this is a learning lesson. 

[00:29:20] Eldar: Well, 100%. Because you've got down the hill. This is just an example of what we're talking about. Yeah. We're talking about the fact that a lot of times we won't allow other people to learn a lesson.

[00:29:29] Right. But this is good 

[00:29:30] Joe: because, you know, yeah. He's learning that lesson by having to have someone learn a lesson, like 100% he's getting something out of it too. 100 by, by also letting him Yeah. Learn this lesson. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's like a, but I 

[00:29:43] Eldar: think that a lot of times we have these moments where we have our own attachments, that that number one gets, gets us in trouble into these arguments that are senseless and pointless a lot of the times.

[00:29:52] Right. But a lot of times we also hinder the growth of the individual that we're trying to grow or help. Let's just say when they're wrong, that's okay. You know what I mean? If it's a harmless, uh, pain, pain, it's like almost pain-free thing. Like, what's, what's the issue here? You know what I mean? Sure.

[00:30:07] Let's res solidify the fact that Mike is a bad communicator, doesn't know how to properly communicate, doesn't choose his words properly. Let him do that. You know what I'm saying? Let let that be an awareness point. Mm-hmm. For Mike as a good friend, right. As a friend, I would want Mike to communicate properly.

[00:30:22] Like I said, I was gonna bring an example of the printing thing in the situation here. Right. Mike said, do this right to Tara and Jared. Right. They did something else completely. Mm-hmm. Right. Gun to my head. If I would run the cameras, I'm sure Mike Miscommunicated. Mm-hmm. That's what I'm betting on. I'm not betting on Mike gave the proper instructions.

[00:30:41] You know what I'm saying? I don't know, you know? Mm-hmm. But I'm gonna allow it to play out the way it needs to play out for the person that needs to learn the lesson. They put how much product into the garbage, uh, I don't know, a thousand plus you understand this, a thousand dollars worth. Yeah. Yes. Into the garbage 

[00:30:58] Joe: heads would be rolling 

[00:31:00] Eldar: if it was you and your dad.

[00:31:01] Right? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. But I, I, I'm even take, I'm willing to take that, take that, take that fall. Wow. For the, for the greater good or the better betterment of an individual who can then start to learn how to communicate better. Can I ask you a question? 

[00:31:15] Joe: Yeah. The same way you are offering Mike to, you want Mike to like, learn this lesson Yeah.

[00:31:20] And become a better communicator. 

[00:31:22] Yeah. 

[00:31:22] How come you can't reverse that and, and let totally see, to let go of the attachment or stop being like this perfectionist that can't let go and, and can give someone else the rein. It's like, well, there's, this is opportunity for him too. No, 100%. Mm-hmm. So, but why do you, why do you grow frustrated?

[00:31:37] Well, because when you can't, you could see the toner situation, Mike situation, toner. It 

[00:31:42] Eldar: depends on what the discussion of the thing is. You know what I'm saying? But you're not taking it out harder on Totally. Than I'm taking out harder on totally in the moment because we already had a discussion about this stuff, the communication stuff.

[00:31:53] Yeah. We haven't had discussion of totally being agro about this stuff. Yeah. We also had, we, this situation is, is very sensitive. You know what I'm saying? So I am also triggered in such a way. Yeah. So you can't allow I am also compromised. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So when I hear any static, I feel it, like it's disgusting to me.

[00:32:10] Yeah. So, you know what I mean? I also don't want him, and he knows this obviously, to not to communicate this way. I got it. But, but he also displayed the fact that he wants to allow other people to fall flat on their face and let them learn the lesson. Mm-hmm. That's one of the things that he has been talking about it for a very long time as well.

[00:32:26] Joe: But I see. I'm not you. Right. Yeah. So I'm less, I'm less triggered, I'm less Yeah. Uh, affected. Yeah. And I'm seeing it now out of, outside of this bubble. Yeah. And now I'm saying I'm flipping it and, and yeah. And seeing that totally has an opportunity to learn too, about 100% the situation. And that's why we're having this conversation.

[00:32:42] Yeah. I would, I would chalk it up to say like, they're both learning here. And even you, Joe. 100%. 

[00:32:48] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I mean, uh, the best case scenario is to come out from everyone to figure something out about themselves. That's always the case. 

[00:32:58] Joe: Yeah. You know, because I 

[00:32:58] Eldar: would say. The 

[00:33:00] Joe: time I got the phone call from you.

[00:33:01] Yeah. And I knew I was listening to a elevated distressed elder that I haven't heard in a long time. Yeah. Last time I heard that was upstate. Yeah. That time when we were younger. Yeah. You have like, since then grown immense control of your feelings, emotions, and your ability to like handle situations. And when I, when I when I heard you 

[00:33:21] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:33:21] Joe: That and I was like, something's wrong. And, and, and yeah. Now I need to step back into the Are you okay Eldar? That's right. Conversation. That's right. And then I kept calling you to make sure we were you Yeah. You were good and stuff like that. You held me down. So, you know, um, I'm trying to say is here's an, an opportunity now that, you know, you're, you've gone through, you've gone through even the times when like, you know, you, you were going through the like mental stuff, scratching your head and like not being able to prioritize and like feeling like overwhelmed and stuff like that.

[00:33:51] Yeah. Like yeah. Gone through some of those stages. Yeah. And you had to like get better. You know, this is, this is a a, a moment in time. I'm listening to this situation pan out. 

[00:34:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:01] Joe: And I'm going like, you know. Hmm. I'm, I'm kind of surprised that like, even though you're frustrated, even though you're triggered Yeah.

[00:34:08] Like it's still Oh yeah. It's still bringing you back. Yeah. That you're still getting pulled, pulled in the wrong direction. Yes. Yes. You know, and like I'm saying, like this, this is like, that's why I'm not gonna be nice. Yeah. But like, are you 

[00:34:19] Eldar: learning? Are you growing? Like, you know, because when this is all closed, said and done, yeah.

[00:34:23] I probably will finally calm down off of it. You know what I mean? So we're 

[00:34:26] Joe: still 

[00:34:26] Eldar: in the war. A hundred percent. Yeah. Like we're, 

[00:34:28] Joe: we're I, I told my still a battle of war. 100%. 

[00:34:31] Eldar: If I, if it was on unlimited resources, you're unlimited amount of knowledge. I want to take the whole talent to out to court and I wanna sue everyone 100%.

[00:34:38] You're still ready to fight. Yeah. You still fighting inside of me. I have that. And like, if that was my wish, and if I can say like, this guys, can you help me out with that and do it? I'll, I'll do, I'll, I'll do it. Yeah. I want to do that. So you're still in fighting mode? No, no. Like. That's the wish, but I understand that that's an attachment.

[00:34:53] You know what I'm saying? 

[00:34:54] Joe: Yeah. 

[00:34:54] Eldar: I'll drop it. I'll probably drop it. 

[00:34:57] Joe: Yeah. But 

[00:34:57] Eldar: that's the wish. Like if I, if I want mine, like that's what I want. Yeah. I wanna fuck some people up, you know what I mean? Sure. For their behavior, you know, and the way they, they violated us, 

[00:35:07] Katherine: like hold accountability as well. Yes.

[00:35:08] Like, we're not the only ones getting screwed here. Correct. I'm sure that more people, 100%. So it's, it's, you know, 

[00:35:14] Joe: it's a fuck. It's a, it's a, it's a shit sandwich that everyone had to eat. And now, like, here it is, like this is a team right here. Everyone's tight, everyone's friends and everyone wants the same goal, but because we're all tight, I mean, and we're all, we're all like upset about the shit sandwich everyone had to eat.

[00:35:31] Now we start like biting at each other, you 

[00:35:34] Eldar: know? No, no, I don't, I don't think so. I, I don't think this is like a thing where I think this is, I think what we're doing right now, I think we're getting the best out of what we can get. 

[00:35:41] Joe: Like 

[00:35:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:41] Joe: But this, this little, this little story, it, it, it's like this is nothing Joe.

[00:35:46] I know it's nothing but I'm listening to it. I know, but this is nothing. I know it's nothing, but I'm listening to it and it's like, yeah, totally. Iss getting whipped in this situation. Joe, have 

[00:35:55] Eldar: not been long enough here. I know. In order to get whipped. I know. Totally. Has a huge stick behind him right now.

[00:36:00] Ready to hit you over the head. He's been waiting for a very long time. Joe 

[00:36:03] Katherine: is saying, is that Joe, uh, Toley, za meanest guy in the group? Yes. Well, I know he angel. I know he's not Angel. Yes. What 

[00:36:09] Eldar: I'm saying is that I'm telling you when, when we, if we get ever very comfortable mm-hmm. You're gonna get hit with a head with such a stigma, Joe.

[00:36:15] You don't understand. Yeah. I'm serious. Bad guy. For a bad guy, look at a smile. Yes. Bad man. Good thing for a bad. No, I think totally is. A lot of times it's very spot on when it comes to people's misunderstandings and misconceptions about the world themselves and stuff like that. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[00:36:31] However, he's refraining. From saying some of this stuff because obviously it's not close to you. Maybe that as close, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So like these little thing that we just had is nothing. 

[00:36:41] Joe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:42] Eldar: Is nothing in comparison to like, some of the things that we get into and then when we get out of it in order to grow ourselves mm-hmm.

[00:36:48] This is nothing Joe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean like if, if you like you're just, you like you a baby, right? Totally. Yes. You see this is nothing. You're a fetus though. You Joe. Joe. We gonna come outta this deck. Shit. Bad for totally. No, no. We're gonna come out this dick shit. Even better friends. Of course. We're gonna come out it much stronger.

[00:37:04] We're gonna enjoy the fuck outta this deck. They're Enjoy the hell outta it. Yeah. We're gonna fuck shit up. We're gonna fuck shit up and we're gonna, it's gonna be the best. He's gonna have the best deck in the world. You know 

[00:37:12] Joe: what I'm saying? I'm just saying topic wise. Yeah. This, this kind, this, this philosophical podcast.

[00:37:17] Yeah. This topic is allowing someone to taste the hot sauce. Right? Yeah. And I'm seeing it. I, I hear what you're saying about Let Mike be Mike and let him Yeah. Fall on his face. That's lesson number one, communication. Let this guy stop being controlling. Yeah. Let this guy for sure get to the point where he can hand something off.

[00:37:37] That's right. And stop being a perfectionist. Yeah. And then also, like, let's let you, you know, get calm down a little bit. Get off the edge. You know where you're ready to fall. Yeah. Down into the, the deep hole. Yes. Mm-hmm. You know, these are all, this is the topic of this, of this podcast. You know, letting someone learn a lesson.

[00:37:54] I'm not upset, Joe. I know you. '

[00:37:58] Eldar: cause to some degree I feel like he wants to calm me down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see that I right. No, he wants to. I'm not upset. I'm not upset with, totally. I'm not upset with Mike bullshit. No. Like no, just, I, I understand that in the moment when conversation 

[00:38:10] Katherine: was happening, I think he was just like, I'm driving this, this specific point that's, he knows 

[00:38:15] Eldar: what I'm driving at, and he knows the adjustments that he has to make.

[00:38:18] He's not disagreeing with what we said. The fact that in this specific case, you holding this attachment and arguing with Mike is not necessary. That's I'm big 

[00:38:25] Toliy: boy Joe. 

[00:38:25] Eldar: Yeah. Well, he's, he totally was buzzing. I wasn't buzzing. Buzzing is the first thing. No, no. Oh, yeah. Well, like I said, no, we're, we're good know.

[00:38:37] We're definitely good. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? In that sense, um, no, but. Yeah. The, the we, I'm still focusing on the topic at hand here is the fact that a lot of times our attachments are holding us and we holding other people away from learning and progressing, and that stuff is like so detrimental to people.

[00:38:55] Like, you will probably see this mm-hmm. In your kid play out. Mm-hmm. Where you. Hindered some of the growth and then that, that played out in a negative way in his life. You probably will say that, and that's the times when, you know, like your dad said, oh, maybe I did a bad job. I feel guilty. Uh, I didn't do this, didn't do that.

[00:39:13] A lot of the parents have where like they weren't properly there for their kids. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? They have regret later. Correct. They have that regret later. Yeah. Okay. That is why I'm emphasized so much to you that Joe, the most important job you don't understand is actually raising your kid right now and going on these journeys, small, large or whatever, because they're number one forever.

[00:39:33] They're the most important thing for you, for your development. In his development. 

[00:39:36] Joe: Yeah. I think my, my biggest challenge the, the development aspect of like letting him be 

[00:39:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:41] Joe: Is the of like getting injured. Yeah. Like for example, like, I don't know how to play this one out, where we ride the bikes. We ride the skateboard and like I see the, the sidewalk is all wonky.

[00:39:51] Big, big, like, uh, yeah. Bumps and, and chips into the, into the sidewalk. Yeah. That I know. When I used to ride my skateboard, yes. If I didn't adjust for that bump, I'm going to eat shit. 

[00:40:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:01] Joe: Face into the ground. Yes. Break your teeth, bones, whatever. Yeah. So when he's riding, I go, Benny, Benny, Benny. Bump. Bump.

[00:40:08] And so now he like stops at the bumps, picks up his skateboard. Okay. And keeps it moving. So by like, am I saying now I'm watching him go, he goes, he goes, dad, that bump And like he's starting to pay attention to the floor. Yeah. Rather than just go, yeah. Now I'm, I'm thinking like, should I do that or should I let him trip and get hurt?

[00:40:26] Yeah. And experience, like what happens if you don't punch out for the bump? Yeah. Like, like I, I'm trying to figure out like, am I creating a very like, uh, nervous, scared skateboarder? Yes. Thank you. You know what I mean? I think that's a good question. I think that's a 

[00:40:41] Eldar: very good question and I'm glad that you are having doubts about that.

[00:40:44] Yeah. Yeah. Because I think you are shooting in the right direction, Joe. 

[00:40:47] Katherine: Yeah. And I think ultimately the, the, the right answer is to let him get hurt. Even though like, well, the thing is you gotta understand 

[00:40:53] Eldar: that Joe getting hurt. Like, first of all, Joe's gonna have to go back and rewind. If you open his, uh, legs right now, you're gonna gonna see how many cuts I'm, I mean, he was a scared, I have cuts bad gashes things.

[00:41:02] I had this thing right here, right? Like, these are all like learning moments where like we push boundaries. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Skateboard, uh, roller blades, bikes. I did it all. I came home bloody all the time. You know what I mean? That's where you learn the boundaries. But that's where I also learned confidence in myself.

[00:41:17] Mm-hmm. That's why I also learned that, uh, I liked myself when I pushed the like. The double kick flip or whatever it was, you know, I didn't do this. I'm saying for Joe, for example, right, who can relate to this or jumped off the, the stair number four where I used to jump only three stairs. You know what I mean?

[00:41:30] Like, you push those boundaries, you become very confident. Yeah. Joe's very, uh, it's good that Joe is asking the question, am I instilling paranoia into my kid who's never gonna jump that foot there? Mm-hmm. Because he's fucking so scared of the bump. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's a very good question.

[00:41:45] Katherine: Well, it's a good question. I was raised by a mom like that, that was very protected and look what happened. No, no. And I am a very anxious Yes, uh, fearful person. 

[00:41:52] Joe: Yeah. 

[00:41:53] Katherine: Who didn't grow up with a lot of confidence. Yeah. Also, I wasn't testing boundaries, like jumping and Yes. You know, but I was too scared. Like I was too careful, you know?

[00:42:00] I climbed 

[00:42:00] Eldar: trees and fell off the trees and lost consciousness falling down. Yeah. See, I wasn't doing that stuff. And my mom, you know what I'm saying, if 

[00:42:05] Katherine: she would've seen me on a tree, yeah. I would've been in big trouble because you could get her breaks an arm or a leg. So that's why I never even. Tested those things out, you know, plus, plus 

[00:42:16] Eldar: us getting hurt in the moment when we were kids is different than us getting hurt now with us as parents.

[00:42:22] Witnessing no, of course. Different. Them getting hurt, right? Yeah. To him he's like, oh, no, but, but to Benny it could be like, okay, whatever. Like, sure. Like their, their mentality is different. They heal differently, they heal faster, you know? Mm-hmm. If their bones break, they, they can heal like this. Yeah.

[00:42:35] Versus a 

[00:42:35] Joe: adults. One thing Alana did that I wish he didn't, is like, now every time he has like a bump or anything, she's like, oh, let me kiss the boo booo to make it better. So now anytime he runs to her running, no. Even like when I'm with him, it's just him. He like falls off scratches and he goes, ah, dad, my kiss the boo boo.

[00:42:52] He's so cute. He goes like, he wants me to kiss his hand. I'm like, okay, I'll kiss your boob boo. Yeah. But like, for the most part, whenever he falls, I'm like, I, I try to like, adjust. I'm like, Ben, you, you okay? You good? You good? Yeah. You all right? He goes, yeah. And we'll, like, I try to like keep it moving, keep I keep to snip that like kiss your boob boo thing.

[00:43:10] Yeah. You see out out, because Alana is. Alana gives him that, that ability. Yeah. That's the motherly that's gonna help me feel better, even though it doesn't, let's not call it motherly. Let's 

[00:43:19] Eldar: call it paranoia. Okay. 

[00:43:19] Joe: Yeah. I mean, it's not really fixing the problem. It's like a mental thing. Yes. He's giving a placebo, thank you.

[00:43:26] And, and I just want to be like, if it didn't hurt you and you're not injured, let's keep going. Let's keep going. Yes. Yeah. Like, let's don't drag on that bullshit. 

[00:43:34] Mike: Thank you. 

[00:43:34] Eldar: You see, he's already seeing, right. I just explained that same thing. I said, look, there's gonna be a phenomenon where you did not allow the kid to go through it, and because you didn't allow it properly, it's gonna keep dragging.

[00:43:47] It's dragging. He used the word drag. He's dragging nonsense. Nothing happened. You didn't dislocate your shoulder, you didn't get bloody, you didn't get a scrape. What am I kissing you for? 

[00:43:57] Joe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:58] Eldar: I mean, I can kiss you, but this is a gimmick. Like, we're not fixing anything here. This is ridiculous. 

[00:44:02] Joe: And 

[00:44:02] Eldar: then you're gonna have a kid who's 12, 14 years old and you still fucking potty training them.

[00:44:08] You know what I mean? Wiping their ass. What is this? Mm-hmm. Right. What is this? It's ridiculous. Yeah, I don't want that. You don't want that. Nobody wants that. I 

[00:44:16] Katherine: think you grew up with a friend like that. I wouldn't say his name. 

[00:44:21] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:44:22] Katherine: He likes chai. You grew up with Oh, P Chai. 

[00:44:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:44:25] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:44:26] Joe: Well, I mean, like I could could say I have three siblings.

[00:44:29] Yeah. Uhhuh, a twin sister, an older sister and older brother. My brother was the first one. He was like, put in a bubble. Oh, there you go. Yes. 

[00:44:37] Oh, he is the first. 

[00:44:38] He was the first. So he was put in a bubble's. I was a wrecking ball. Yes. Running through the house. Smashing into walls. Like Yeah. The, they said like the, you know, the only thing that slowed you down was like if you hit a wall.

[00:44:49] Yeah. In the house. Oh God. Yeah. Because you were just like full speed and that was me bouncing off the walls. Yeah. Same here. My mother. It would be like very fragile. Very this, very that I became the Yeah. Athlete and my brother never played sports. Yeah. Like kind of like, I would say like he sees blood. He is, he throws up, he is like a pussy.

[00:45:07] Yeah. In a way. Grown, grow. We both grown adults, but he was baby, hes faints when he sees 

[00:45:12] Eldar: blood. 

[00:45:13] Joe: Yeah. And I, I see brains come outta someone's head and I keep going, you know? Yeah. I mean like where it comes to the way you were handled and coddled or treated. You see that? I would've never 

[00:45:23] Katherine: guessed that. No, he, that's crazy.

[00:45:24] Grew up in the same house, complete 

[00:45:25] Eldar: opposite for me. You see that's, and this is what I'm talking about, that if you don't allow, I'm mean wish Mike 

[00:45:32] Joe: stuff Gary never were young kids that like my parents would just like let them be. 'cause at that point it was really, yeah, your 

[00:45:38] Katherine: mom would had her hands, she 

[00:45:39] Joe: was hands were full.

[00:45:40] So we were like, we are gonna teach ourselves. Yeah. Sure. 

[00:45:44] Katherine: Yeah. I guess that creates temper. And Joe is 

[00:45:45] Eldar: much more confident. He's a competitor, loves sports. Right? How competitive he is, man, athletic, go-getter. Really, really, really, you know, willing to do whatever it takes, you know what I mean? Work hard and fight or whatever it is.

[00:45:56] Mm-hmm. Because he has that self-confidence, right? Mm-hmm. And then we always talk about how Gary, uh, raised Mike and when it came to sports at least, right? He also cuddled him. Mm-hmm. Or didn't allow him to go through the motions of losing, right? Mm-hmm. Getting back up and fighting for it. Right. And pushing him and stuff like that.

[00:46:13] Mike shelled up and said, yo, I don't want to compete. I don't like the way I feel. Mm-hmm. And until only till now, right. When he's is a grownup. And I was like, yo, I, I want to compete. I wanna fucking test myself. I want to do this. Mm-hmm. I wanna do that. You know? And that's why now he's putting himself in those fire.

[00:46:27] He is like, oh shit, I feel this way. I feel that way. Mm-hmm. Me and Joe went through that when we were fucking teens. Totally went through that. Went through. He was a teenager too. And we have that umph. I never went through that at all. Well, you a girl too though. Like it's definitely hard to maybe for girls.

[00:46:38] Yeah. But for boys at least, right? It's like, it's like a natural phenomenon. 

[00:46:42] Joe: Of 

[00:46:42] Eldar: competition, fighting, competing, you know, like getting rugged and stuff like that. 

[00:46:47] Joe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:48] Eldar: If not, then you know, Mike, who, who, who lacks that self-confidence is gonna have to find that and is an adult, adult years. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

[00:46:56] So, yeah. Be careful with Benny. Mm-hmm. 100%. Mm-hmm. 100%. He's gonna be crying. Then, you know, at 30, 35, you know about like, oh, my dad, you know, like two AI robot. He's gonna be crying fucking jail. 

[00:47:09] Joe: Oh my gosh. 

[00:47:10] Eldar: Yeah. This is exactly what we're talking about. Yeah. All because of what, because you want to spare a boob on his knee, right?

[00:47:18] This is what we're talking about. It's okay. Wipe it off. Next. Keep going. You had fun. You had fun jumping off that little ledge and you got hurt. You had fun. No, right. Go do it again. Right. Go do it again. 

[00:47:28] Joe: Yeah. Benny's fell, falling off the couch from jumping hits his head cries. And then does it again. I go, Benny, you.

[00:47:37] I go, Ben Benny, you remember when you fell and he hit your head? Remember your head boob boo out, you, ah, crying, and he looks at you goes, dadda boo boo. I go, yeah. So why are you jumping on the couch? Yeah. He's had fun, having fun, fun. He wants to do it again. That's it. And like you, sometimes, sometimes this is what it's about.

[00:47:55] Like that's it. You're gonna, you know, live with the consequences. It comes with it. Yes. You know what you're getting into. I used to go out skateboarding. My mom was like, please don't be going out there, you know, jumping, doing all these these crazy things. I don't even wanna think about what you're doing.

[00:48:07] Yeah. I'm like, I'm going out there. I know what I'm doing. I know I, I know the risks, but every time I go out every day, it's another risk That day risk the next day risk, the next day risk. But I just love skateboarding. I love learning. That's that's pushing the boundaries. Pushing the boundaries. Even though yes, even though I knew I was 

[00:48:25] Eldar: gonna 

[00:48:25] Joe: get hurt, 

[00:48:25] Eldar: the risk kept going higher and higher.

[00:48:26] Yeah. What's the next injury? I could take it, you know, whatever. You didn't, you don't, as a kid, you don't think about that at all. You think about what you can do and impress your friends. Impress yourself. Learn a new trick. This is what it's about. 

[00:48:38] Katherine: You know what? I just remember. That's good. I think that's 

[00:48:40] Eldar: a good thing.

[00:48:40] That's a good thing. It's a thing having fun for 

[00:48:41] Joe: a parent. It's a hard thing to Yes. To accept. Yes. You know what? I, you know what changed my thought on, on wearing helmets. Oh, I went snowboarding. She never wore helmets. And my mom would like, please wear a helmet. You go to snowboarding. Please. Please, ma'am.

[00:48:53] Mom, no one wears helmets. That's, that's gay. Like, doesn't you look like you look like a pussy wearing a helmet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You look stupid. So I, I was waiting to go down a jump and I'm like, waiting for this one kid to do it. He goes down, he get, goes into the air, he loses his balance. He's doing like, I'm trying to like correct myself.

[00:49:12] He's in the air high slams his head on the floor, starts seizing out. Oh, I never seen someone seizure in, in front of me before. Yeah. Wow. Seizing out. People come down like all the medics and shit. They put him in a stretcher and they go, they, they take him down. And then I look at my friend, I'm. The helmet.

[00:49:29] I'm wearing a helmet. Helmet, I'm not going down this, this hill. Um, he's like, well, I'm like, I don't have a helmet. I'm not smashing my head on the ground like this guy did. Yeah. So I saw something, I did not want it. Yeah. And that was the moment. I'm like, I'm not doing that. Yeah. You know, like, this is, this is too risky.

[00:49:43] Yeah. Like, I, I, you know, the risk versus reward didn't match. You have to like, analyze it and decide where you're cutting it off. 

[00:49:50] Mm. Mm-hmm. And 

[00:49:51] then I started wearing helmets because I was like, yo, that if you hit your head 

[00:49:54] Katherine: Yeah. Problem. 

[00:49:55] Joe: You find the balance. You have, you look for the balance. Libby, 

[00:49:57] Katherine: weren't you at the hospital, maybe at the ER with your mom or I, I, I'm not sure.

[00:50:01] But you were there and two parents come in. Their, their skater son was like 17, you said. Mm-hmm. He came in with like a bad injury to his head. Mm-hmm. And then I think it was the following day, you, you went back again and he he didn't make it. He died. Yeah, he died, remember? 

[00:50:19] Joe: No, I don't, I can't 

[00:50:20] Katherine: remember. 

[00:50:21] Joe: I don't remember why you were in 

[00:50:22] Katherine: there for, but it was a two day thing.

[00:50:23] Yeah. 

[00:50:24] Joe: Yeah. That's, uh, you know, like my, uh. Buddy that I knew on the football team in the fire department. Yeah. You know, fireman, football player, fucking tough guy. He was in, he was, he was a specialized fireman. He was in a squad company. So it's like even tougher Yeah. Than the regular fireman. Uh, he's a wide receiver, like ball break in, kick ass football player, rides, motorcycles, every surfs, everything.

[00:50:50] Like the guy is like all star, all American type guy. Mm-hmm. He's riding his motorcycle and, and I don't even think he was being reckless, you know, he was just riding and someone made a, a bad move in the car, hit him. He crashed and he died. And like something that like was normal, took him out. And then at the funeral, his mom's like, you know whose name was Joey, she's like, my son lived life to the fullest.

[00:51:17] You know? Yeah. He enjoyed himself. He did everything he, you know, he ever wanted to do. Yeah. You know? Uh. And she said something like he just, he po he, he had too much fun. She thought, like, she kind of like took it outta context like he was riding his bike. It wasn't due to his fault that the accident happened.

[00:51:37] Mm-hmm. But maybe she thought that he shouldn't have been on the bike. Yeah. She had her own opinion on it own. But like, she 

[00:51:42] Katherine: probably never liked the bike. Yeah. 

[00:51:43] Joe: Yeah. Like, but this is the risk when you get on the bike, if you crash, it's not like crashing in a car where the air things go off. You're protected by the car.

[00:51:50] Yeah. And, but like, but he also was a fireman. He also did all these other crazy things and like, you know, something down the line could catch you off, off your, you know, by, by no control of your own self. Like cross the street. There you go, go, go right through the red boom slams you. That's just another reason to have fun.

[00:52:08] Like, what are you gonna do? If, if, if he would've died by getting hit by a bus? What's his mom gonna say at the funeral? Yeah. He was too much of a risk to ride buses. Risk. Yeah. Across the street. Across the street. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, you're trying to have fun in this life. That's an unfortunate situation.

[00:52:25] Anyone, you know, getting into accident and they're dying. Um, you being like, you being like reckless and not seeing like, Hey, this is a little too risky. Yeah. And you got killed like. Like, uh, the guy from, uh, fast and Furious. It's ironic. Yeah. Yeah. He died. What he was was a professional speeding drag racing.

[00:52:47] Yeah. Yeah. But like in the street professional 

[00:52:49] Katherine: driver, 

[00:52:50] Joe: he, yeah. And he was like in a movie that does this like, oh, a car streak. Yeah. Street race car racer, Paul Walker. And he was flying and then he crashed and then he 

[00:52:59] Toliy: kills himself. Was he, he, he, I, I, I thought he wasn't the driver in the car. 

[00:53:02] Katherine: Yeah. Wasn't it that there was a professional like race car?

[00:53:04] I don't, some Dr. Yeah. Maybe I'm off 

[00:53:06] Eldar: on that Professional race. Race, yeah. He was a passenger, but nonetheless he 

[00:53:08] Joe: got in. Right. 

[00:53:09] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:53:09] Joe: Well, also, maybe I'm mixing up the story with Benmar JIRA's friend Ryan. Yeah. He was in his like Porsche, and he was drunk drinking. He went out drinking and he was like, flooring his Porsche a hundred crashed.

[00:53:21] Died. Yeah. And then died. Yeah. Like it's, it's, it's being like also reckless and 

[00:53:26] Eldar: Well, that's part of it too, right? If you're too reckless. You can potentially end your life. 

[00:53:30] Joe: Yeah. 

[00:53:30] Eldar: But if you're, you know, having fun and enjoying stuff, you can definitely get hurt. Yeah. But not to a point where you lose your life.

[00:53:35] But like, you maybe learn a lesson or two, but you nonetheless have fun. You know? And I think part of life is probably that too. Have a little bit of fear, you know, this injury that injury dings and things like that. I, I've got injured so many times playing basketball. 

[00:53:48] Joe: Yeah. 

[00:53:48] Eldar: Uh, I try to never allow that to discourage me from playing basketball.

[00:53:51] Mm-hmm. Because I love playing basketball so much. 

[00:53:53] Joe: Yeah. 

[00:53:54] Eldar: You know what I mean? And I hope if I, if I have kids one day, raise 'em a situation where they can have as much fun as I did, you know? 'cause I had a lot of fun. 

[00:54:04] Joe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:04] Eldar: You know? I'm about to play a hockey, I'm gonna to, I'm very, very challenged. Uh, yeah.

[00:54:09] I'll be very challenged 

[00:54:10] Katherine: to not be like my mom. 'cause I'm so much like my mom. Correct, 

[00:54:13] Eldar: correct. 

[00:54:13] Katherine: So that they can enjoy. 

[00:54:14] Eldar: Well, she would see, enjoy, see the dilemma that Joe's having, for example, fall along with Alana, where Joe's like, Hey, let's push a little bit of the boundaries, see where we can get to where she's like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:54:22] We can't go there. You know what I mean? So there's a, I I 

[00:54:25] Katherine: get it. There's 

[00:54:26] Eldar: a black, white. But Joe, I also feel he's a pretty safe guy too. 

[00:54:29] Katherine: I mean, yeah. I don't feel like, not as safe as, I think he became 

[00:54:32] Eldar: safer as he 

[00:54:32] Joe: got older. 

[00:54:33] Eldar: Yes. But, but, 

[00:54:35] Joe: but, but me comparing me to Alana, I mean, no, I don't know her in, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:54:39] She doesn't ever, she's never ridden in the lane I've ever been in. You know, she doesn't 

[00:54:43] Mike: drive in the left 

[00:54:43] Joe: lane. She's like on another highway, you know? Yeah. Like, you know, she's 

[00:54:48] Mike: in the senior citizen 

[00:54:48] Joe: lane. Senior citizen lane. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you, I can't throw her car keys with her and she can't even catch the car keys, you know, and she's just not, yeah.

[00:54:58] Doesn't live my life. 

[00:54:59] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:55:00] Joe: for 

[00:55:00] Eldar: sure. I think as you get older though, you naturally do get a little bit more cautious, obviously, you know? Sure, yeah. Which is okay, especially 

[00:55:08] Katherine: as a parent. 

[00:55:08] Eldar: Yeah. Yes. But like Joe said, he's already noticing certain things where he doesn't want to pass on certain paranoia, certain things to Benny, where Benny then becomes a little bit of a sissy, 

[00:55:18] Joe: but that's me on the, the physical side.

[00:55:20] But Alan is much smarter than me. Yeah. And she's what she's instilling in Benny and stopping me from doing the Benny in the intellectual side of it, or like if I yell yes, she goes. Don't yell at him for that. Like the, you can explain. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And like me, my reaction was yelling. 'cause all I did was get yelled at and get worse.

[00:55:39] Yeah. That's how I grew too. So Ana is strong on what she could contribute to him and, and, and stop me from, uh, you know, affecting him in the long run. Yeah. And I'm gonna do what I could do that she's not capable of. That's a perfect yin y. That's a perfect, that's a perfect balance. Balance. Because she stop, she checks me sometimes and I'm like, Hmm.

[00:55:57] She yelled at him. Yeah. Like, I, I'm, I got frustrated. I penny. No. Yeah. Yeah, sure. That doesn't work. Yeah. 

[00:56:03] Katherine: I yell at Penny all the time, you 

[00:56:04] Joe: know? Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:05] Eldar: For sure. 

[00:56:06] Joe: So she's good with that stuff. Yeah. 

[00:56:09] Eldar: Good, good. So I think that then you're in the perfect. That's why you have a second kid. That's perfect. Yeah. 

[00:56:14] Joe: We wanted it.

[00:56:14] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Congrats. That's awesome. Congrats. Thank you. With that being said, transit, we talk about all these baby stuff. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know how fighters UFC fighters go into fight camp? 

[00:56:25] Joe: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:26] Eldar: You know, and usually it's like three months or four months or whatever they prepare for what? For a fight. For fight, the 

[00:56:32] Katherine: weight loss and the fight.

[00:56:33] Yeah. 

[00:56:34] Eldar: So I'm officially in baby camp. Ring the bell. Yeah, ring the bell. You're officially in baby camp by choice. Officially. Yeah. So Catherine, I 

[00:56:43] Katherine: just had to, you're preparing. 

[00:56:44] Eldar: No, so yeah, so Catherine. Lately it's been, you know, kind of ramping up her efforts, Uhhuh, um, you know, to get healthier. Okay. She started eating a little bit better.

[00:56:53] She's exercising a little bit more. She's going to therapy. She's doing all these things right. And I'm seeing the progress. I'm seeing that she's changing as obviously she's preparing and she wants to, you know, have kids one day. Yeah. I'm sitting kind of like observing this, right. I'm sitting here, I'm like, oh shit.

[00:57:08] You know what I mean? I'm like, she goes, Hey babe, like, you know, my, my, you know, you know, everyone is listening. You wanna Specifically what? I'll tell one second. Yeah. I'll tell you what happened. I'll tell you what happened. That's why I'm doing it. Totally calmed down. Everything's okay. Totally. 

[00:57:21] Joe: Stop breath.

[00:57:22] Totally. 

[00:57:23] His breath. This guy had coffee. 

[00:57:25] Mike: Yeah. I think totally bears word. He is gonna get neglected. Yes. Very sad. 

[00:57:30] Eldar: Yeah. So, what's his name? I'm, I'm witnessing this. Obviously I'm not saying anything or whatever, right. But. If, you know, Catherine hasn't been, had regular periods for a very long time, right? Yeah.

[00:57:40] So it's been hard to get pregnant. Um, she, she, first month, she's like, Hey, I got my period. I'm like, okay, cool. You know, second month, well I got my period. I'm getting a little more regulated shit. She goes, and the third month she goes, I got my period. And now I know when I'm ovulating, babe, yo. And okay, 

[00:57:56] Joe: I didn't realize that he 

[00:57:57] Eldar: took it, that like, oh.

[00:57:58] I'm like, oh shit. And she goes, Hey babe, like. I'm ovulating today, you know? Yeah. I'm, I, I'm like, and I'm laying there. I'm like, oh shit. It's game time and it's Instead of 

[00:58:08] Joe: game time. Yeah. 

[00:58:10] Eldar: Instead of game time, which usually I, I, maybe we did so much game time already, like I didn't take that shit seriously, but this time I adding up the fucking variables and I'm 

[00:58:17] Joe: bullets in the gun 

[00:58:18] Eldar: now, yo.

[00:58:19] Yeah. This might be, yeah, this is, might be serious. And 

[00:58:21] Katherine: you know what happened? Yeah. Crickets. 

[00:58:23] Eldar: What happened? Crickets. What? You couldn't perform? No, I was like, I wasn't even trying to perform because 

[00:58:28] Katherine: nothing. Yeah. 

[00:58:29] Eldar: So I, I, nothing happened. You know? We didn't, we didn't, we didn't make love. Okay. You know what I mean?

[00:58:33] But what, the next day she was like, Hey, babe. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I noticed like, what's going on? You don't want, you don't want, you don't wanna jump the bones, you know? I'm like, babe, I thought about it too. I was like, yo, what's going on with me? You know? And I sat with it a little bit and I'm like, oh shit.

[00:58:47] I know what's going on, you know? And I told her, I'm like, look, uh, when you started telling me this stuff, I felt a little bit of a pressure internally. They're like, yo, now it's game time, but. I'm actually having been, I'm kind of loose on, like, I still drink, I smoke a little bit of weed here and there.

[00:59:01] Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Like, I relax. Mm-hmm. You know, and I, I like, you know, I have aches and pains, like back pain a little bit here. Um, my hip hurts a little bit there, you know? Mm-hmm. I'm active and generally I'm okay, but like, I'm not in my best shape, you know? So I was like, I definitely do, I feel a little bit guilty because she's working on herself and I'm not, you know what I mean?

[00:59:19] So I'm like, all right, cool. Like, 

[00:59:20] Katherine: oh, that's how you took that? 

[00:59:23] Eldar: Well, no, I felt that I do not want to, like, I don't want to, you know, make g love and create a baby when I'm like, I'm my back foot where like, I'm not a hundred percent. So you think your guys are swimming a little like Yeah. 

[00:59:36] Joe: Py 

[00:59:36] No. 

[00:59:37] Katherine: No, I'm not. I mean, all these years I thought it was me that like, you know, wasn't performing correctly, 

[00:59:42] Joe: I think.

[00:59:42] Or, or is it the pressure? Like, you know, like, yo, this is, this is like a game time. Not even game time, but like now that it's. Getting more, almost like realistic or more serious that it's gonna be like, I wanna take it seriously too. Well. 

[00:59:56] Mike: Yeah. I think you understood the repercu you had to having a, you have to mentally prepare.

[00:59:59] You took it seriously. Yes. I'm about 

[01:00:00] Joe: to possibly become a father. 100%. This isn't like. This is like a shock because now it's like more realistic. Correct. Before it was kind of like, almost like it doesn't seem like it's gonna happen. 

[01:00:11] Yes. Yeah. '

[01:00:12] cause you've tried so many million times. Yes. But now it's more realistic, so you're like That's right.

[01:00:16] Whoa. It's a shock. Yes. You're kind of throwing those other things of like, almost like, uh, excuses. 

[01:00:21] Eldar: No, no, no. They're not excuses. I'm, I, I quit drinking. I quit smoking. No, I think it's, hold on. That's the whole point, Joe. I'm trying to get to it. I'm in baby camp. I want to quit that stuff. I want. So you wanna be fresh and clean?

[01:00:31] Yeah. I wanna be clean. I want to be a hundred percent for us. No problem. You know what I mean? And like, I don't wanna wake up with hangovers, for example. Certain things that were kind of little, little like nagging at me or whatever, like this and stuff. I wanna fix them up a little bit. Nice. I like that.

[01:00:42] Get a little bit stronger. Yeah. And then do it for real. Deliver. Deliver some superhuman, hopefully swimmers. Yeah. Hopefully. But yeah, that's, that's, that's what I'm saying. I'm in baby camp now. Totally. Is nothing wrong with that. So 

[01:00:52] Katherine: he put himself in baby camp. It was very interesting. Nice. I didn't think that we would No coffee 

[01:00:56] Eldar: either.

[01:00:56] Yeah, no coffee. I've been waking up at night like, you know, just peeing and like, you know, just like interrupted sleep and stuff like that. I'm like, yo, I gotta get that regulated as well. Mm-hmm. So normal coffee at night. Normal. More coffee. Like you had coffee at night too. Yeah, sometimes I have coffee around, around three, four o'clock here.

[01:01:11] Yeah. And I'm not sure if it's whatever, I wanna just remove some of these variables that might not. Be serving me. So, you know, even though I didn't really complain about them before, but like now I actually wanna take this seriously, so I'm in a better shape for this. Yeah, that's good. So I'm in baby camp, so I'll tell Ka like, yo, you know, like, I'm gonna like, you know, try my best here and then, you know, we can definitely get a good crack at it.

[01:01:30] Joe: Yeah, that's a great approach because like, you know, a lot, I mean, Alana and I wanted to try for a second kid, but like, I'm like, let's just do it now. So it's like by the time we move into the house, we could kind of be like halfway through the pregnancy and then we'll have the baby. Like, let's, I didn't wanna wait.

[01:01:47] I'm like, the quicker, the better, you know, like as you wait, the, you know, more chances of things, uh, going so great is 'cause you, you know, we waited, right? Like age-wise. Mm. And I'm like, you know, and then I'm like, what? And then also, what if when you were ready it doesn't take, or, you know, or you know, like.

[01:02:04] Whatever, miscarriage, anything. Yeah. Like, I'm like, we we're not promised like, uh, uh, you know, drop, put the, put the stamp on the mail, put it in the, it's gonna get to the destination. Mm. I'm like, so what if by the time you're ready, it's not working and then it's, it, it may not happen. Like, why don't we just shoot up the club and like, let's see what, what takes?

[01:02:24] And like, and we'll get there once we move in. She's like, no, I don't want the stress of the stress of the, the construction and the, and the moving, and I wanna be in the house. So I had to then stop and say like, stress is a, a thing. A hundred percent. Absolutely. So can't, I'm not gonna just like now just say, no, we're gonna, we're gonna do it anyway.

[01:02:40] Yeah. So we waited. That's responsible. We got in. Yeah. First night in the house. Bed was, mattress was down. Yeah. Like, babe, we're going for the second one. Yeah. Take your panties off. I'm like, yeah, get the drills off. And then it was like the right time. Oh. And everyone was like, on the right page. Yes. Good.

[01:02:56] And this is a, a similar scenario. Yeah. There's no reason why you also can't wanna. You don't want to be better myself. Yeah, better yourself. Yeah. Because now it's like, now it's baby mode. Parent mode is like, you are always thinking of the, the, the, the better of your child. 100% best chances you can get for it to be.

[01:03:14] Yes. 

[01:03:14] Eldar: And that's why, that's why I told Catherine when we, we were having that walk and I said, look, I definitely don't want feel bad or guilty that like, I didn't try properly or didn't do the right thing, you know? Because like, we've been doing this life together for a little while now and like anytime that we prepared, we talk about our plans and we did it in such a way where we didn't rush it.

[01:03:31] It, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We didn't stress it that we, we came out on top and we feel good. So let's try to do the same thing here. Like if your shit is for real now, like, all right, cool. Like, I don't have to do these late night smoking weed, playing counterstrike. He's playing 

[01:03:42] Katherine: counterstrike, you know, smoking weed, having, you know, like a shot.

[01:03:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:03:46] Joe: But, 

[01:03:46] Katherine: you know, uh, 

[01:03:47] Joe: so that's awesome. That's good news. Yeah. You know, that, 

[01:03:49] Katherine: that conversation I saw in baby camp felt really good. Because it felt like a united front, just like you said before on other things that we've tackled Yes. Together with the same goal. 

[01:03:58] Joe: Yeah. 

[01:03:59] Katherine: So, you know, not that I was feeling alone in this, but like I've been doing my own thing for myself.

[01:04:04] Um, I didn't have any expectation of you changing anything for yourself. Yeah. Like, you know, um, but it just, it actually felt really nice that you also Absolutely. Like, I felt like in a way supported 100 times, even though you're gonna do your own thing. But like, it felt really nice. Like, you, you also motivated me to 

[01:04:17] Eldar: this, to this thing.

[01:04:18] So we 

[01:04:18] Katherine: are doing this together. Yeah. You know, so that, that felt really nice. 

[01:04:21] Eldar: Yeah. It's like a natural thing where it was a natural kick for me, but it's also like, I, I see that you're, you're progressing and you're doing better. You setting a better example. So I'm like, all right, cool. Let's get on the same page together and give it a good crack.

[01:04:33] So, yeah, that's, that's official. So you guys know why, if you offer me some whiskey or something? Totally. Which you, which you never do anyway. I'm, I'm gonna decline it. Totally. Doesn't really drink anyway. Right. Late nights. The late 

[01:04:43] Joe: nights. Are you gonna, are you gonna be like staying up for the fights late night?

[01:04:46] Oh yeah. All fights are fine. I think I just, because, because once the baby comes Yeah, totally. Gonna be watching the fights by himself. Yeah. 

[01:04:55] Katherine: Please don't scare this, this child. I know you guys were going a 

[01:04:59] Toliy: different direction, which is why like, you know, my definitely wet there. Like it totally stopped breathing.

[01:05:05] Eldar: Totally stopped breathing because the way 

[01:05:07] Joe: that you were leading it up, like, did I calm you down? What? Did I calm me down? Or she gonna say like, we're we're pregnant. He's probably pregnant. Yeah, I 

[01:05:13] Toliy: thought that. Yeah, because he started to say, well, after three months, and I was like. You know, no 

[01:05:18] Eldar: preparation.

[01:05:18] Toliy: Yeah, no, absolutely no. But in the beginning you were saying three months and then I'm thinking in my head, oh shit. Oh, she didn't get her period. Yeah. Yeah. Like I thought this where you were mean, both scenarios are good, obviously, you know, like, like are you happy that I'm blowing this route? Well, well, yeah.

[01:05:32] I mean, I'd be happy, like regardless if, if it was already there or, or if, I wanna 

[01:05:36] Eldar: make sure I get your approval here. You know what I'm saying? 

[01:05:38] Katherine: He'll have nine months to prepare, prepare for the shift. You know, it's gonna be a lot of ambushes last time, months. I'll 

[01:05:45] Joe: help you through the way too. I got you back for sure.

[01:05:48] Thank you Joe. 'cause you're a 4-year-old virgin. Yes, this is true. 

[01:05:53] Eldar: Alright, so I think, I think we said a lot about this topic. Mm-hmm. Do we have any final thoughts when it comes to holding ourselves or holding others, uh, from learning? 

[01:06:03] Mike: Mike? Um, do I have any other thoughts about this? I don't know. I have to think about it.

[01:06:07] Okay. Somebody can, uh, 

[01:06:08] Katherine: yeah, same. Joe, do you have anything? 

[01:06:10] Joe: No, I don't think, I don't think I have much to add more to it. You see how important it's, I I see it's important. And, and, and I like being able to throw the ideas out and examples out because Yeah. I too need people to bounce off 100% too. Ideas and and feelings.

[01:06:27] Yeah. Because I don't get it right. And 100%, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But like, the more input I get, the better. Yeah. And, um, we're always learning, but like, obviously we're trying to swing for like perfect. Yeah. As, as much as possible. Yeah. Adding a thousand, but sometimes you strike out, you know?

[01:06:44] Yeah. Try not to for sure. Many times, 

[01:06:46] Eldar: for sure. Yeah. You, you just don't wanna strike out enough where, um, the consequences are so lengthy that like, it puts you in a, a, a long period of fucking hurt and pain. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? The whole point of this is to be able to raise enough awareness of our own pain and foresee some pain, right.

[01:07:02] As much as possible so we can avoid it. The right. Mm-hmm. Uh, but sometimes that's hard to do because we're, you know, the tired, you know, attached to something. Have some other issues or whatever that are holding us from actually seeing the, the picture more clear. 

[01:07:16] Joe: Yeah. Like we were riding the bike to, to, uh, Benny was riding his bike to the playground.

[01:07:21] Yeah. And then, uh, he didn't take his helmet off. When he jumped off the bike, he was running around the playground. And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make him take his helmet off now that he is off the bike because he's kind of more comfortable. He slams his head, at least he has his helmet on.

[01:07:35] He's not complaining. 'cause he normally wants to take it off. And sure enough, he's flying underneath the, like, you know, there's a bridge and he was running full speed and boom hits his head, but the helmet took the, the, the, the shock and he kept moving. But like you could see when like, you know, he was just like, oh, there's something above me.

[01:07:52] Yeah. Because he runs without like, paying attention. Wrong. Yeah. So I'm like, well it's nice he worked, he had a helmet on because he was slammed his head. Yeah. Um, but um, yeah, I mean, I can't put him in a bubble. You know, 

[01:08:05] Eldar: that's an interesting thing that you said about like a random act of, usually he takes his helmet off, but this was like a random act, quote unquote.

[01:08:13] Yeah. Isn't that way. He didn't Right. It's almost like says that like, sure. Parenting is hard, right? It's a hard job, obviously. Right. And you have stressors and you have paranoia. You make, you wanna make sure that the kid doesn't get hurt, obviously, you know, but something almost felt like was over watching at that moment where it's like helped you out, kind of, you know, like, Hey, like this time the helmet needs to be on and that's how it's gonna be because he's gonna hit his head right now.

[01:08:36] And he did. Yeah. You know, and like, thank God that it was, you know, and it's like, you can't explain how that happened, but it's like a premonition. Yes. And sometimes I 

[01:08:44] Joe: feel it. Yeah. And, and like I could tell, yeah. Don't climb that you're gonna, and then it goes like, you kind of see it already happening. Yes.

[01:08:50] Yeah. 

[01:08:51] Eldar: I think that, you know, the more, if you pay attention and you're in tune, I think that these types of things are almost, are like a protective, I'm like a Navy 

[01:08:57] Joe: seal watching that kid play. Yeah. Like a bubble. But sometimes I do want just like, chill. Of course. Like go play. Go play. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

[01:09:07] There was just a, a quick story. Uh, we went to the feast. There was like, in, in, in the Town we're at, it was like Italian feast, like 18th Avenue feast. Yeah. In the town. And there was like a American ninja warrior bouncy house. Like, like obstacle course. Yeah. Wow. For older kids. And Benny saw, and Benny wanted to go in there so bad.

[01:09:26] But there all these kids were like, at least, I don't know. Eight years old or, or older. Yeah. And there was like a, there was like a, a ball in the middle of a, a pit that like you could push the ball and like slam people that are like trying to get in this pit and like knock 'em down. Oh wow. It was like, oh, they would've so much fun in was mad Maxine.

[01:09:43] Like, it was like 50 kids uhhuh just like, almost like mosh pitting in this thing. Wow. And I'm just like watching, I'm like. I'm like, oh my God. Well, my son's like eight and I'm like, we're in sre. He's, he's gonna wanna be in there and I gotta like, let him do it. Like all these other parents are like letting their kids Yeah.

[01:10:00] Go process this. And like, it's like the king of the middle, like, who's like the strongest sick. I've never seen this. That sounds really cool. I was, I'm like, I'm like, I got a lot to get ready for. You know, you see, I'm like, this is just the surface. Like, and we're just like doing the little things right now.

[01:10:16] There you go. Yeah. There you go. My, my friend son, 

[01:10:18] Mike: the physical wounds, they, uh, tend to heal Yeah. Much faster than the mental one. Yeah. The deep, the deeper 

[01:10:23] Eldar: ones, 

[01:10:23] Mike: the mental ones, they take a long time. Well, the good thing is 

[01:10:26] Eldar: the, the mental part is in Alana Hands, not Joes. Yeah, exactly. These guys a lumberjack bro crush.

[01:10:31] That's true, bro. Yeah, that's 

[01:10:33] Joe: true. I, I, I bang, bang nails in my fist, try to pick up a hammer. It's easier. But, uh, yeah. 'cause I listened to my, my buddy who has a teeny son. Mm-hmm. He's starting to kind of rebel. Yeah. And uh, it's like kind of being bad. Stage where it's like he's getting mixed with the wrong kids, starting to do drugs.

[01:10:55] He's talking about drug testing, his son and his mother, and then this, the parents are split, so the parenting is really hard. How am I, dude, I hope you, I hope you get shit straightened out. I'm like, but we, when we were 17, 18, we were running wild too. 

[01:11:08] Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:09] We were. You know, if we got a chance to go to a party or like sneak away or, mm-hmm.

[01:11:13] Yeah. Go do something we weren't supposed to do. We didn't, you we weren't worried, like Yeah. We were like, we're lying to our parents. Remember when your mom came to my house? Yeah, bro. She's like, where's my son? Yeah. She threw you down And we were there fucking, yeah. She was drinking ready to, ready to like, you know, slap my mom.

[01:11:27] Like she threw the house down. Yeah. Yeah. She pulled up, my mom pulled up, burned 

[01:11:32] Eldar: the house down. She was like yelling. I remember this. And we were hung over drunk. Why aren't you guys high at the time? Yeah. We woke up like one or something. We were probably maybe maybe doing 

[01:11:39] Joe: shrooms 

[01:11:39] Eldar: or 

[01:11:39] Joe: something, you know?

[01:11:40] Yeah. We were doing our thing. Yeah. But Elder, we slept to like one or two and his phone, she was trying to contact him. We were out. She must have flipped. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, but we did the same shit. But like, I am like, look, I, I just hope, I hope, you know, you could connect with your son to a point where like, yeah.

[01:11:56] You're not the enemy. Yeah. You know, that's my goal is to like, yeah. Be able to like, there you go. You see? 

[01:12:01] Eldar: See, you're foreseeing that what we talked about, that the fact that if you don't allow certain things and certain experiences in such a way where he can build trust with you, right? Mm-hmm. In those moments that in the future he's not gonna want to tell you about shit.

[01:12:13] Mm-hmm. He's just gonna run away or whatever, right? Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:16] Joe: You know? So, because I, 'cause I, I heard the, the, the take on like some parents are like, oh, you wanna try get, you wanna try alcohol? Mm-hmm. Alright, here's a shot. Stay with stay. We're gonna stay in tonight. I'm gonna let you drink as much as you want.

[01:12:28] Yeah. Or obviously not enough to get alcohol, poison. Mm-hmm. But enough to make you throw up. Yeah. And then we're gonna, we're gonna let you experience the dizziness, the shitty part of drinking. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's like if you are gonna drink moving forward or you're, when you're of age Yeah. This is your tolerance.

[01:12:43] There you go. This is what you can handle. This is when you can't handle it. Correct. Yeah. This is when, if I need to step in and maybe you need to call me for help because you did slip up and have too much. That's right. But like your ability to, to reason and, and compromise or like Yeah. Understand like the, uh, be like, be like responsible for yourself.

[01:13:02] Correct. If you could take control of the responsible side of it and prove to me that you are good on your own. Yeah. Or if you do need help, you can contact me. Yeah. 

[01:13:11] Eldar: You have to have an open line of communication. Yeah. 

[01:13:13] Joe: Yeah. 

[01:13:13] Eldar: So that's, and if you don't protect that, if you don't properly establish that Right.

[01:13:17] Then you can't have these types of conversations. No. You know, so make sure you do a good job. Like I said, I'm telling you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I don't think like parenting, having a kid is a joke. I don't think so. No. It's so serious. No, it's very serious. Yeah. And the consequences of something bad are very serious.

[01:13:35] Joe: You know? Yep. You just doing the regular mundane shit is frigging hard. Three, three meals and a and, and, yeah. Fill his day up with activities. Yeah. What am I gonna cook? What am I gonna get? What, what is he gonna eat? Is he gonna eat it? Yeah. What are we gonna do? Is he, you know, it's just like, and that's just the basics.

[01:13:51] Yeah. 

[01:13:53] Eldar: Well, on that, maybe we can talk off air on it, but I have some suggestions if you want. Okay. Yeah. Alright guys. Anybody else have uh, final thoughts? 

[01:14:02] Toliy: No. 

[01:14:02] Eldar: No? Alright guys, this was great as always. Thank you so much. 

[01:14:05] Toliy: Thank you.