190. Why Self-Examination Beats Searching for Purpose

Dive into a raw, unfiltered conversation that challenges the age-old question: "What's my purpose?" In this episode, we explore how fear and anxiety often masquerade as the drive to "find" meaning, only to lead us down unproductive paths. Katherine opens up about her personal struggles with impatience, free time, and future uncertainties, sparking a deep dive into self-examination as the true lifelong quest. Joined by Toliy, Mike, and host Eldar, the group dissects illusions born from solitude, the power of sharing vulnerabilities, and why education and curiosity are key to breaking free from mental traps.

Whether you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed by "what ifs," or simply curious about living more intentionally, this episode offers practical insights on navigating anxiety, embracing the present, and turning self-doubt into empowerment. Discover why purpose isn't a destination—it's an ongoing process of questioning and growth.

Key Takeaways:

• Purpose isn't about discovering a "magic" activity; it's consistent self-examination to align your life with truth and what truly makes you feel alive.
• Fear-based motivations (like preparing for worst-case scenarios) create illusions—share them early to dispel them quickly and avoid unnecessary suffering.
• Education and curiosity help unconvince your mind of doom-and-gloom narratives, opening doors to fun, immersive experiences without guilt.
• Consistency in routines and sharing builds resilience; without it, moods fluctuate, and progress stalls.
• Overcome self-imposed blockages by embracing discomfort—being "wrong" repeatedly fosters humility and faster personal growth.

Most Insightful Moment: Toliy drops a game-changing perspective on the value of vulnerability: "The more we share, you're gonna be wrong 90% of the time. Think about that. If you're wrong about things over and over and over and over again. Now when you run into things, they're not gonna live as long because you're like, I couldn't be wrong about this." This highlights how admitting errors builds curiosity and short-circuits anxiety cycles.

Ready to question your own illusions? Subscribe now for more thought-provoking discussions on philosophy, mental health, and personal growth. Rate and review on your favorite platform, share this episode with someone who's pondering their path, and join the conversation in the comments. New episodes drop weekly—don't miss out! Listen on Buzzsprout, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. For full transcripts and resources, visit DennisRox #FindingPurpose #SelfExamination #OvercomeAnxiety #PersonalGrowth #PodcastPhilosophy

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - we can even dissect it on our next episode. Submit your story using this form - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Chapters

• 0:44 Exploring the Concept of Purpose
• 6:17 The Role of Fear in Finding Purpose
• 9:39 Self-Examination as the Key to Purpose
• 35:46 The Impact of Conversations
• 51:50 The Importance of Sharing and Being Wrong
• 1:11:45 Handling Family Dynamics
• 1:15:13 The Role of Fun in Relationships
• 1:31:54 Final Thoughts and Advice

Transcript

[00:00:00] Dennis: On this week's episode, 

[00:00:02] if the question about what's my purpose is triggered by fear? Sounds like the, the main topic here. The theme, yeah. Not 

[00:00:08] Katherine: generally, but right now, yes. 

[00:00:13] Toliy: The more we share, you're gonna be wrong 90% of the time. Think about that. If you're wrong about things over and over and over and over again.

[00:00:19] Now when you run into things, they're not gonna live as long because you're like, I couldn't be wrong about this. 

[00:00:25] Eldar: We start just like magnifying everything, and we can only do this, you know how in solitude? Because as soon as you bring another person in and try to make sense of this mirage that you're seeing, they might not see it.

[00:00:44] All right? Um, today's topic is probably one that everybody in the world talks about the most, right? It's probably a, what's our purpose, right? Again, again, and again and again. Yeah. Yeah. Like how do you find it? What is it? 

[00:01:01] Katherine: Uh, and does it just like knock on your door, Hey, I'm here. Yeah. You know? Yes. When is it coming?

[00:01:08] Cat wants the shortcut. 

[00:01:09] Eldar: Yes. I want the 

[00:01:10] Katherine: shortcut on. I think Mike Po 

[00:01:11] Eldar: a good question to you that he did earlier. He said he did. Is it, you supposed to find your purpose or the purpose supposed to find you. So why don't you expand a little bit on what's going on in your life? Oh, man. That was a frustration.

[00:01:27] That's a 

[00:01:27] Katherine: big sigh. Yeah. No, it's, it's a good question. It's a good question, and it's a hard question to answer because I'm impatient, you know? But also, like I, I feel like not only am I impatient, but I'm still figuring myself out, you know? Yeah. Um, and so like, I don't have answers. I don't have like, you know, there's like big question marks or uncertainties about like, my life where I'm headed mm-hmm.

[00:01:54] What I wanna do with it. Um, and so like, I just have all these question marks, like swimming in my mind. Mm-hmm. Um, so I give us some, I think there's something to it that like, I, I have like, maybe I'm feeling a little unsettled at times. Not, not, you know, you know, life distracts you day to day stuff, but like, sometimes I sit there and, you know, I, I start wondering like, um, should I be doing more?

[00:02:21] What should I be doing with myself? Um, um, I don't know. I, I think, I think it just comes from like, I don't actually know, you 

[00:02:30] Eldar: know? Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:32] Katherine: I don't know if I'm like, um, expressing it correctly, but I, I had a conversation with you this morning about it. 

[00:02:38] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:39] Katherine: I feel like you understood me pretty well on like where I stood with that.

[00:02:43] But, um, this is not the first time I have this, obviously. 

[00:02:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:02:47] Katherine: Um, 

[00:02:48] Eldar: what prompts it? What prompts it from, like, start raising these 

[00:02:50] questions?

[00:02:56] I think right 

[00:02:57] Katherine: now I, I have like a lot of free time on my hands and I'm not doing anything like extracurricular, like taking a class or doing this. So I think I have maybe even more time and I'm thinking, um, about like, having this time on my hands, what should I be doing with it? Um, 

[00:03:16] Eldar: why do you feel like you're not, uh, useful or something, or you don't, you're not doing enough?

[00:03:19] Yeah. 

[00:03:20] Katherine: I think sometimes I feel like that. Do you feel 

[00:03:22] Eldar: bored? 

[00:03:22] Katherine: You know, I think sometimes I feel like that. 

[00:03:24] Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:25] Um, like I think that conversation kind of came about as, as we're talking about wanting to expand our family. I think it also kind of. Comes to the forefront. You know, like I, I was just talking to Mike earlier.

[00:03:39] Um, you know, uh, I grew up, my parents split up like everyone around me, um, all the females that I had in my, in my, you know, in my, in my life. 

[00:03:50] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:51] Katherine: Uh, eventually found themselves being single mothers at some point, divorced, widowed, whatever. And they had a lot of struggles, you know, a lot of struggles being single moms.

[00:04:01] So I thought to myself like, you know, if we would raise this family or create, like, you know, grow our family, I'm sitting here like thinking in the future, but I'm like, you know, if something happened to Eldar or whatever, I have to go back into the workforce. Like, well, would I do, like I haven't finished my degree.

[00:04:16] Um, I don't like what I used to do before. I was miserable. So like. What path would I take or where I, how you just move to Columbia, 

[00:04:22] Eldar: sell everything and move to Columbia. 

[00:04:25] Toliy: Just wait for Harris to become present or that 

[00:04:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:04:29] Katherine: Well you got some options here. 

[00:04:30] There's many of options. Yeah. 

[00:04:32] Why is like selling everything and moving to Columbia even an option who says, I wanna raise my children, then you don't need much.

[00:04:38] Yeah. You don't need much. It's cheaper. Or that, I wanna wanna be here. Yeah. Your, your parents are there. 

[00:04:41] Eldar: Yeah. You know what I mean? Like there's some kind of a base farm. Fresh eggs. Yeah. Farm fresh eggs. Uh, three, I don't wanna live there. A condo, you know? 

[00:04:48] Toliy: Yeah. Mangoes. Yeah. Milo. Yeah. 

[00:04:53] Katherine: Yeah. You know, so, you know, as, as I speak, I speak, I say it out loud, it sounds so silly 'cause I'm living in this future that hasn't even happened or, you know, like it has, and you know, it's not here.

[00:05:06] But in my mind it's like, you know, am I. Almost like not being product like productive. Is that a word? Product. 

[00:05:15] Toliy: Product. Won't let it pass. Pass. Don't way pass. Hi. What am say, say the word 

[00:05:19] Katherine: that I'm trying to say. Am I being productive? Productive. Productive? Oh my gosh, it just happens. Product. Am I being It's a new word.

[00:05:26] Yeah. Productive with my, with my time. Yeah. You know, like this time that, that that I've had to focus on myself. Could I be doing something differently with it? Um, to give myself almost like a backup, like in the future, like if I need to get back into the, for workforce, like to give myself something, you know, like I, I wouldn't even know like where to go or what to do, you know?

[00:05:47] So I don't know. That's, that hasn't always been the reason why it's there, but I think right now, I think it's, that thought is back because of, you know, you know, us trying to plan for the future. Um. It may be me just feeling like I, I need to, I wanna do something more with myself. Maybe. I don't know. I'm not really sure where it's coming from, but I think it's, uh, my, what Mike question was kind of op Yeah.

[00:06:14] Like maybe, well, no, I 

[00:06:15] Eldar: think you said a lot just now. I mean, you've given away a lot of stuff that's going on in your mind, and at least if the question about what's my purpose is triggered by fear, which is what sounds like the, the main topic here. Yeah. Not 

[00:06:29] Katherine: generally, but right now Yes. I think is triggered by what I, what I just mentioned.

[00:06:34] Yeah. I'm, 

[00:06:34] Eldar: yeah. I'm not sure if trying to find your purpose based on fear and based on preventative care for something happening potentially in the future. Don't know when and how Right. Or it even gonna happen. Yeah. If it's even gonna happen. That's impossible. Yeah. It's like, yeah, 

[00:06:49] Katherine: it's crazy. It's 

[00:06:50] Eldar: a crazy, it's crazy feet to go after, like, 

[00:06:52] Katherine: but like, I just, I've seen like the rug pulled from under like so many.

[00:06:57] People, you know, and then have to like be Facebook. Yeah. But you can apply that to, to everything. Any part 

[00:07:02] Toliy: of your life like. 

[00:07:03] Katherine: Yeah. It's true. 

[00:07:04] Toliy: Like, it's like saying like, you know, like you've seen dogs attack like hu humans. Like do you need to account for like Archie and Penny to like attack you one day?

[00:07:13] Katherine: No. No. 

[00:07:15] Toliy: You know? Right. Like, yeah. Jenny example. Just because people get, get bit by a shark does not mean you're not going in the water. Right. Yeah. Like robbery, like burglaries happen at stores. Like Yeah. You are not gonna go into a store, for example, store anymore. Yeah. Example. Yeah. Like there, there's too many things.

[00:07:28] No, I 

[00:07:28] Katherine: know. Like that. It's also rational, you know, like no, they could 

[00:07:31] Eldar: very irrational what's happening here. 

[00:07:33] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:07:33] Eldar: You know, you know what I mean? That Yeah. You start up, start conveniently to the anxiety mind. Mm-hmm. Start choosing and picking the narratives that fit that specific fear-based thing, you know?

[00:07:47] And I'm not sure if that's the correct way of thinking, 

[00:07:49] Mike: guys. Yeah. It's like supporting the fear. Do you guys think that the reason she's having these thoughts Yeah. Is because of the. Lack of purpose? 

[00:08:00] Eldar: No. No. You don't think so? I don't think so at all. You don't think so? Actually. You don't think so? It's lack of the ability to see what you're doing right now.

[00:08:07] Mm. Okay. Okay. Lack of being grateful. Mm-hmm. Lack of being in the moment. Not having the ability to focus. Right. Because she's doubt right. The fears goes well, what am I doing with my time? Wait a second. 

[00:08:20] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:21] Eldar: What do you mean You've been doing all your time. What have you been, you've been working on yourself.

[00:08:24] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:24] Eldar: You've been doing all these things. I can name 'em all. 

[00:08:26] Katherine: Yeah. Right. 

[00:08:27] Eldar: What I have to remind you now of all the steps that you've been taking when it comes to therapy, looking within Yeah. And, and actually trying to figure out who you are. But she, that she did 

[00:08:35] Toliy: also say before that, uh, um, that she's not as.

[00:08:40] Busy as she is like, like, like was before. And she feels better when she's busy. 'cause then like she doesn't Right. Right. But now you're saying so, but that 

[00:08:48] Katherine: also says she's running that just, that just, that just goes to show that like, I'm running from Yeah. Like my own thoughts or myself, you know? Yeah. I mean, she's not having 

[00:08:56] Toliy: fun 

[00:08:56] Katherine: no matter what.

[00:08:57] It's, yeah. It's, you know, it's not good. 

[00:08:59] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like this, this like, um, talk on purpose. Like, I feel like there's only one type of purpose that like anyone could, could like, have. 

[00:09:08] Katherine: Mm. 

[00:09:10] Mike: You 

[00:09:10] Toliy: cut straight to the 

[00:09:10] Mike: chase. Yeah. All right. 

[00:09:11] Eldar: I like it. It's good. Quick podcast. Yeah. I know where it's going, but yeah, go ahead.

[00:09:15] I don't know if you know where it's going. 

[00:09:17] Toliy: Oh, I have, of course. You. Of course. Yeah. I think the, the fuck the, the only purpose is that like, it's, it, it's funny because like you could link particular things, and I feel like a lot of people do to purpose. Like, hey, my purpose is to, I don't know, let's say save animals.

[00:09:32] Mm-hmm. To help others to like, you know, like, like, sure. I think that some people could say that. But I, I, I think like, um, the only purpose that I think anyone should ever have is just like self examination. There's nothing else like to it. Which, which is like a, a, uh, a funny way of, of I think of speaking about it because like, there's obviously a lot to self-examination, but like, there's no magical like thing that you're gonna be like, Hey, like started, you know, doing this and like this crocheting, yeah, this is my purpose, you know, I like, my 

[00:10:11] Katherine: life is changed.

[00:10:12] I'm killing it now. 

[00:10:13] Toliy: There's no such thing. There's no such thing. What it is is just, it's is is just like consistent self examination. Like that, that's the only purpose that like you could possibly have because with consistent self-examination, like, um, like in, in inside of all of us is like an information bank, like a hard drive that I feel like throughout our whole life we're trying to figure out how to hack.

[00:10:36] 'cause it has all the information like in, in it, you know? And then we like venture off, do like a bunch of different things. Figure out ways to like, hack it, to like, like do particular things. But I think that like, it's one of those things where it's like, uh, you, you can only open it when you're like deserving of it.

[00:10:54] And that's through like your actions and your attitude and like how, how, how, how you go about it. And then the purpose of life is just to figure, figuring out like, what is all this information? Like what, what does it mean? How do I feel? Like, what makes me feel good? You know, what does it make me feel good?

[00:11:11] Like what do I like, what do I not like? And then ultimately navigate all those things. Yeah. And then navigating like, um, how much, how, how much your current life aligns with like the, uh, truth, you know. And it's just basically, um, figuring out how to live that way. But that's like a forever, like life lifelong quest is to.

[00:11:32] Um, self, self examine everything. And it, and it's very like, like when we, we, we spoke with this like many times on other podcasts where, um, life is paradoxical in the sense of like, um, like, uh, Socrates is fame famous line saying that he knows like nothing. But it's, it's like a weird thing because the more like you're gonna learn new things, obviously you're gonna have more information, so you technically know more.

[00:12:02] Right. But, um, like the, uh, trick almost that that happens is that like, you can't have that kind of like, not, not, not that you can't have it, I guess it's like a weird thing of like, well, you're learning more things so you're supposed to know more, but you were saying that you kind of don't know, which is like a weird kind of thing.

[00:12:22] And there's a very easy like, um, um, arrogance that could be. Played in there with like, knowing, knowing a lot or like knowing more where you, um, you, um, stop self-examination because of it, because you think that like, you figured something out. But I think like the moment that you feel that way that you figured something out and you don't need to self-examine anymore is when like you stop that process and you actually like start going the other way completely.

[00:12:51] So there, there, I, I don't think that like, there's any, there's anything that anyone will find that it's like, alright, now I have it. Like that's it. Like I found, like the item I was looking for. Now I can like go follow it or continue it. Like, I think it's just, yeah, 

[00:13:07] Eldar: it's just self-examination.

[00:13:13] So where did she start? I think she already started. I agree. 

[00:13:18] I definitely agree with you. You know? 

[00:13:20] Toliy: Yeah. Like this is part of it, like, to, to me, like there's gonna be times where like sh like. Things feel bad and then like that, but then like, things could turn around like this. Yes. You know, too, because like, you don't realize how like paper thin a lot of tho those like arguments you have against like particular fears or like, you know, like, like the things that you brought up here where like if you start thinking about them, you start bringing them up, you start examining them.

[00:13:44] Like they're gonna be like these like little dividers, you know? But at the, they, they have good dividers. My dad made them. What? There's towels in between. Come on. Uh, I'm, I'm saying in comparison to like a, like a concrete wall where that, that's where the, the person feels that like it's a concrete wall.

[00:13:58] Yes. You know, but it's just something that can, can, can be flung like this. So in the moment it feels much worse because like to to, to you or to that person at that time, it feels like a concrete, like jail cell that you're just like trapped in. But it's nothing. But it's very difficult to, um, to see that in the moment until you start thinking about it.

[00:14:20] Which is what again, like the purpose is like the examination of it. Is the liberation of everything. Like there's like, right, like there's something else to it. 

[00:14:30] Eldar: Yeah. But then my next question is then why the pitfalls? Why do you have to, in what sense? Why do you have to remind her of this now? Why do you have to remind her of what she already knows?

[00:14:41] So what, what, what would you say that she already knows? That the fact that what you're saying, she's probably agreeing with you, that like, yeah. My, my journey is to continue to examine myself and continue to ask questions and learn about myself, the world, the reality, and look for truth, right? Well, 

[00:14:54] Toliy: yeah, I mean, so like, we could, what's 

[00:14:55] Eldar: the pitfalls?

[00:14:56] Why does she fall? And then she has kind of like, again, like in this limbo of like, oh, I don't know what to do. It's those 

[00:15:01] Toliy: moments of knowing that that's what it's mm-hmm. You, when you know, you can't understand really, like you can't, you, you're actually not that person anymore for that time period because you, you know, and like we all go into things of like, we get information like we think we know at that time we don't continue this the, the, the examination and then we need to.

[00:15:24] Have these ups and downs to try to figure out how do we have more stability of not like, of not, uh, going in the pitfalls. So, so I, so I feel like yeah, that, that, that's like not rec recognizing that because like if, if you recognize that it's impossible right. To have. Yeah. But then I think it's, 

[00:15:41] Mike: well you're just saying, it's like she's, what you're saying is a person or who already bought in the disbelief that you're, that you're discussed, which you're describing that person is still gonna have certain moments, but because she hasn't bought in, is what you're saying, that's why she's still having these pitfalls.

[00:16:00] Toliy: No, no. I feel like we, we all have particular times in life where we figure something out. We all know that feeling of like, you know, like, you kind of like feel like you figured something out, whether it's like con consciously or not, but you figure, but you feel like you know something. 

[00:16:14] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:15] Toliy: And when you feel like, you know something.

[00:16:17] Usually it's like ancon, unconscious thing. Mm-hmm. But I think that like, you don't have that same focus anymore of like the self-examination.

[00:16:29] Eldar: Mm-hmm. On that top, on that topic. On that topic, yeah. 

[00:16:35] Toliy: Because it's difficult. Like you, you learn more. So, you know, 

[00:16:39] Mike: so what is you, you know, what, what is, what does she think that she knows, or what do you think that she knows that is causing this like, kind of thing that she's going through right 

[00:16:47] Eldar: now? Well, actually the question is what is she, does she, does she, doesn't she know?

[00:16:50] Yeah. Not what she knows. Yeah. What she doesn't know. 

[00:16:53] Toliy: Yeah. What 

[00:16:53] Eldar: she 

[00:16:53] Toliy: doesn't 

[00:16:54] Eldar: know. Yeah. 

[00:16:55] Toliy: Well, no, I, yeah. I, I think it's more of like, what, what do you, do you think, you know, okay. That too. Mm-hmm. Because it's gonna dis because that's usually what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, you that, like it's a thought of knowing something.

[00:17:05] Yeah. But then you, you talk about it like, again, like anytime we're afraid of something, we think that. Something like, again, like anxiety, right? Like Yeah. She just, she 

[00:17:14] Eldar: just explained it. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:17:15] Toliy: You think about something and, and then you have like a take on it. And to you at that time, it's a reality until you like dispel it.

[00:17:24] Yeah. Until you dispel it. And then it just like, you know, and then it's not there. 

[00:17:28] Eldar: And those things are very short lived. A lot of the times. Maybe not for, for all the people, but for a lot of people I think it's like, if you're motivated the wrong way and you, you know, your premise was out of fear, fear-based, paranoia, whatever it is, you go on this journey to try to go and try to fix this thing because you're scared.

[00:17:44] You come to realize that like, yo, like the fuck am I doing here? 'cause the go, the fear's already gone. Right? For example, day two, day 10, day a hundred. Mm-hmm. But you already set yourself up on this journey of fucking, uh, preparing yourself for the worst. The worst never comes right. You don't know when it's gonna come.

[00:18:01] The bunker. I was gonna say, it's a bunker. The bunker people, it's the bunker people. Right. It never comes. Right. But you are like over preparing yourself and then you're like, what the fuck is happening here? Now you're getting a little tired. Now you're getting a little frustrated and you start questioning like, yo, what am I doing here?

[00:18:15] Why am I doing this in the first place? Mm-hmm. And everything starts to fall apart. Then you have the guilt and everything else that comes about. Like, yo, was I wasting my time here? Why was I doing this? Oh, because, because I was scared at one time, but that was an illusion. 

[00:18:29] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:29] Eldar: So you did all this nonsense because of an illusion.

[00:18:32] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Like an, an anxiety in general is like a part-time, two full-time job, depending on how bad it is. Yeah. Like for that person at that time. Mm-hmm. But like, yeah, like it, it's impossible to be anxious, for example, but self examine at the same time. Like tho those two things, impossible. Don't. Don't exist.

[00:18:52] Mm-hmm. Can, so if you're spending your time on anxiety, then you can't be spending your time on self-examination. You know, and self-examination is the complete, like, it's, it's the complete repellent to anxiety, you know, because it, it, it, it can't exist. It's impossible. It's, it's, it, it's not in that hard drive of answers and, and in there it doesn't, like it says that, like it's not real.

[00:19:18] Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:19:22] Eldar: Um, based on what we're talking about and based on what we've discussed or based on what I observe about you, I would say that the closest thing to, uh, the purpose of what to ISS talking about is going back to school and education for you. You know what I'm saying? Not driven by fear. Mm-hmm. Or not driven by, I need to check my box about getting my, my degree.

[00:19:48] Right. But 

[00:19:48] curiosity to learn, actually wanting to learn. 

[00:19:52] Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:53] If you can go with that kind of internal feeling where you can sit through a class and everything that is being said to you, the question you learn, you marvel at, then you're doing the closest thing to what TOI is talking about. At least when, when, when we're talking about outside of philosophy club or with me conversations, uh, externally out there in the world, is education going to get knowledge, but in a very specific, intentional way of learning.

[00:20:19] Toliy: But you're talking about like in actual school? 

[00:20:22] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Why, why actual like school? Well, because I think that it is one of the establishments where they try to give knowledge, 

[00:20:33] you know? 

[00:20:33] Okay. You know, obviously you, you're gonna try to maybe get classes or things that you want to, you are interested in, right?

[00:20:41] Yeah. That you have no expertise in, and the person who's hopefully a teacher who's a good teacher, who has expertise in the damn thing, so you can pass on that knowledge. 

[00:20:50] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:51] Eldar: You know, that's, that's my hope of it. Right. Obviously I can also recommend, okay, go start reading books and shit like that. Do online courses, you know?

[00:20:58] Yeah. Is there 

[00:20:58] Katherine: a professor of life? You, you know what I'm saying? 

[00:21:01] Eldar: But like, that's like the immediate thing that comes to my mind. At least. Education. 

[00:21:06] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:21:07] Eldar: Go educate yourself. Right. Even on the fact that we're totally just said about causality, that like one does not, just because there's more shark, you know, bites in there doesn't mean that, you know, like there's no causality between the things.

[00:21:19] You know, you have to go out there and school teaches you this, that, you know, correlation does not mean causation. They constantly teach that. Just because what you observe does not mean that's the reality of the situation. Or there's a very small chance that something like this can happen. Therefore you shouldn't base your reality or your decision making based on a mere chance of winning a lotto once every a hundred years.

[00:21:39] You know? You know what I mean? So I think it's, the more you get knowledge and education that is firm, uh, you don't allow your own mind, your stupid mind to convince you of winning the lotto every single time. 

[00:21:56] You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Yep. 

[00:22:00] Toliy: Yeah. That, that, that's the thing with, with, uh, with anxiety.

[00:22:04] You, you have the winning lottery ticket every time. Every time. Every time. 

[00:22:08] Eldar: You know? Yeah. 

[00:22:08] Toliy: You're 

[00:22:09] Eldar: so lucky. You know, you're lucky that one lucky person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what you gonna, I, I, let's just say I perish, right? What you gonna say? See, I told you so, you know what I mean? Like that? Mm-hmm. Like, what will you prove everybody wrong or something?

[00:22:20] It's ridiculous. You know what I'm saying? In life, shit does happen. You know what I mean? It does. Yeah. Of course. But what are we talking about here? You know what I mean? Like how often does this shit happen? 

[00:22:31] Mike: But it's like a grasping for like a straws thing. Yeah. But it's like a thing to prevent you from progressing like you own putting your own brakes on.

[00:22:40] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:22:41] Mike: And the question is why again? 

[00:22:43] Eldar: And that is well, ultimately, right. I ultimately, what I want for her is number one, to be educated and smart. Number two, if you're educated and smart, you're gonna choose, right? Yeah. And that right is, is probably more fun, curious activities mm-hmm. For yourself rather than the dull ones, the ones that make money and just like grinding and just like fucking, you know?

[00:23:01] Mm-hmm. Not happy ones. Yeah. You know, it's a clear thing, you know, so educate yourself enough to un convince yourself of the doom and gloom so you can go out there in the world and enjoy the processes that, that the world has to offer to us. Mm-hmm. It's a playground. 

[00:23:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:23:16] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? But you can't.

[00:23:18] No. Because you're sinner. 

[00:23:20] Mike: You can't, 

[00:23:20] Eldar: you, you have a stupid mind. Yes. So you go out there and you try to have fun, try to learn new things, and you are like, am I doing something wrong? I'm not a productive member of society. I'm not a productive member of my family. You know what I mean? Even though this rhetoric is not even a real rhetoric.

[00:23:35] Yeah. You know what I'm saying? What's wrong? You know, like, I mean, I would love for her to just go and do everything that she likes, everything go. 

[00:23:45] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:46] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[00:23:47] Yeah. 

[00:23:48] Be happy. What is the problem?

[00:23:54] Mike: You know? Easy said. Mm-hmm. What do you start? Yeah. Down. Everybody's gonna say, sign me up. I'm ready. Yeah. But nobody's actually, I'm so ready for that, but nobody, no chance you gonna do it. Yeah. No chance. No chance. Impossible. Yeah. 

[00:24:06] Katherine: Well, because you know, there's blockages there. Oh yeah, 

[00:24:09] Mike: exactly. Whatever your, mm-hmm.

[00:24:11] Katherine: Your blockage might be, 

[00:24:12] Mike: but those blockages are like self-imposed blockages. 

[00:24:16] Katherine: Oh, of course. 

[00:24:17] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. And that's why a lot of times people don't get anywhere. A perpetual cycle. I'm just, I know. 

[00:24:23] Katherine: Sometimes I feel like that, you know, even though, like, technically, I, I know I'm not the same person that it was a few years ago that like, you know, I, I know there has been progress and stuff, but sometimes I feel like that.

[00:24:35] Mm-hmm. Like, you know, I'm just like stuck. 

[00:24:41] Eldar: Yeah. You not having fun. 

[00:24:42] Katherine: Not all the time. It's, it's like, again, this is like my mood. Yeah. My mood is very, yeah. You know, it, it switches, but sometimes, yeah. You know, most of the times I can feel, you know, I, I can feel good and, you know, gratitude, 

[00:24:56] Eldar: but it's, it's a, it's a hard thing to come by, but it's Right.

[00:24:59] It's a task for a chore. What sometimes I feel like, you know what I mean? Like Yeah. My mind is curious enough where I can just throw myself into activity, lose track of time, and enjoy the fuck out of it, of the most stupidest shit, you know what I mean? And not feel guilty about it. I could potentially make something out of it, you know, I can share with other people or something as well, you know?

[00:25:19] I thoroughly can enjoy, enjoy it, and focus on it. You know, where time doesn't exist, nobody exists. Except that specific 

[00:25:28] little moment that I've discovered for myself, you know, 

[00:25:34] it's very easy for me to come by for that. Like, very easy, you know? I mean, even 3D printing right now, you know, I got into 3D printing.

[00:25:41] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, you know, so I have like all these things where I can turn to and be like, I, I can be good. You know what I mean? Wanna go to the beach and fucking look for rocks, no problem. Yeah. Hours. A hundred percent. I wanna go garden hours. Yeah. Rock climb hours, you know? And like, you start stacking things that like, who gives a fuck what we do kind of thing.

[00:25:59] You know what I mean? Yeah. Where it's like, it becomes that thing that you're talking about, it's no longer, uh, you looking for anything. Mm-hmm. It just fucking finds you. 

[00:26:08] Mike: Yeah. Because you have the ability to be immersed in whatever, whatever, like, uh, comes across your path, whatever, you know, a 

[00:26:14] Eldar: conversation.

[00:26:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:26:16] Eldar: Right. With a stranger or a new make a new friend or somebody, you know? Yeah. You can really marvel almost, uh, at any opportunity that knocks on your door every opportunity. 

[00:26:27] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:26:29] Eldar: But if you have a closed mind, if you have fear, you have to judge the fuck out of this shit. You know what I mean? You have to watch what you say, you know?

[00:26:37] Uh, and it's never, it's, it's never like a, a good thing. So you, you have to complain because you're like, oh, this ain't working. This ain't perfect here. You know what I mean? Planning a vacation to Columbia. Uh oh. I'm excited to go see my parents. I'm like, all right, cool. I wanna be with my parents. So kicks off, cancel vacation.

[00:26:58] Katherine: You throw a wrench in my head. 

[00:27:00] Eldar: See that? 

[00:27:01] Katherine: Yeah. When it comes to her things, right. 

[00:27:03] Eldar: I want it like this, you know? 

[00:27:05] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:06] Eldar: You know, I want it like this, you know, I'm gonna throw a fit if it's not like that. 

[00:27:10] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:27:11] Eldar: But when a elder has needs or wants, oh. What the hell, you know? Mm-hmm. It's so terrible. A thousand outcomes, everything is just bad.

[00:27:21] Mm-hmm. You know, what is this gonna happen? What if that gonna happen? You know? What the fuck? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I'm easygoing. No problem. What? What? What's the problem? Mm-hmm. We'll adjust. We'll go on the fly. We'll go, we'll take it as we goes. Nah. A thousand things to plan, a thousand things to go over.

[00:27:41] I don't wanna do this anymore Then, then I become the bad guy. Mm-hmm. So I said, go by yourself. You want, you have problems. Go by yourself. Enjoy your family. Enjoy your moment and time by yourself. 'cause you don't have yet ability to enjoy me, for example, for who I want to be as well. I wonder we'll go on vacation with my parents.

[00:28:02] You know? Hmm. You know what I'm saying? She wants 

[00:28:09] to share stuff with her mom. 

[00:28:10] Oh, I wanna share this with first thing to do. Lemme call my mom, tell her about this plans, you know, but my mom different. Hmm.

[00:28:22] It's all because of the, that type of mindset. 

[00:28:24] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:28:25] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Everything needs to be a very specific way. Mm-hmm. If it's not you get rattled. 

[00:28:32] Mike: No. It just change in general or anything like that. Yeah. Surprises. 

[00:28:35] Eldar: That's what we like when we're doing surprises to Totally. Yes. Because I say 

[00:28:38] Katherine: was the other day, like, we don't love torturing surprises.

[00:28:40] Love, 

[00:28:40] Eldar: I love torturing. Totally. 

[00:28:41] Katherine: Yeah. It's a wrench in the process. 

[00:28:43] Eldar: Yeah. Like, where are we going? Why? Who's coming? Who's gonna see me? Are you serious? What? You know, like that. Yeah. I keep throwing it at him. She keep bothering him. 

[00:28:54] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:54] Eldar: Until like, yeah, I can't wait. You know? Let's go, let's go. Mm-hmm.

[00:28:59] Automatic response, no questions asked. 

[00:29:01] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:29:02] Eldar: We're throwing you into the wol wolves den, alligator den, snake den. You know, what are we doing? Like, what are we coming up with? But the mind's automatic like that, and it has no grip of itself, 

[00:29:14] you know? 

[00:29:16] Mike: Yeah. Like the, there's like a, you are buried under a bunch of clutter.

[00:29:21] Yeah. And you can't get out. You can't Until you declutter it. Yeah. You won't be able to like actually be free or enjoy anything. Yeah. Yeah. For like an extended period of time. 

[00:29:31] Eldar: No. 

[00:29:31] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:29:32] Eldar: But every time you have to kinda work yourself up, gimme like a month notice. Mm-hmm. To prepare my mindset so I can go and get coffee with a new friend, you know?

[00:29:39] Yeah. 

[00:29:41] The fuck, that's a, that's not life. It's like you're living in prison. 

[00:29:45] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:46] Eldar: You know what I mean? And then you try to convince yourself that like, if shit changes, which you think is good right now, shit changes, then what are you gonna do? Shit's already bad in your mind. You, this is emergency right now.

[00:29:58] You know, your emergency should be the only thing, how do I have fun? The most amount of time is I can. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. For the most amount of time. Yeah, that's possible. Because I'm missing out. That's what should, your question should be. You know, and instead you are like, yo, I gotta get a bunker, a bunch of weapons mm-hmm.

[00:30:14] Seeds and prepare for these aliens to arrive. Yeah. That would come every fucking thing. Who's coming with, you know, and everybody's coming. Who's coming with every year. Yeah. You know, the 

[00:30:24] fuck, 

[00:30:24] when do you actually live? 

[00:30:27] You know? 

[00:30:29] Yeah. So, of course you have to go back to what toll's advice is. So if it's, if there's not, if it's not self-examination to examine and reexamine yourself on a daily basis, then what the fuck are you doing?

[00:30:40] You're just chasing your own tail. 

[00:30:44] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Like, um, like Kyle was saying, she's like, she's, she knows she's improved, she's progressed and she's happier and a little bit Yeah. In certain areas of her life. And I think like understanding how that came about. Mm-hmm. Right. Like, uh, examining that process, understanding what actually transpired there and really focusing on that is, is again, the key to keep doing it more and more so that you could finally be free.

[00:31:09] The problem is, 

[00:31:10] Eldar: um, every time you have a bottom, when you identify the bottom 

[00:31:14] Katherine: mm-hmm. 

[00:31:15] Eldar: You set a goal to get rid of the bottom. Okay. So when you get to that goal, you stepped up that ladder on the step, step up, you no longer see the, that bottom anymore. Mm-hmm. That bottom disappears. 

[00:31:25] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:31:26] Eldar: So it's no longer where you came from, you forget.

[00:31:28] Well, yeah. Because you're a new person. Okay. So this new step has to become the new bottom. Yes. That's, I mean, that's what happens. I Right. And you, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. You can't even look back anymore. Yeah. Because you can't relate. 

[00:31:39] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:31:40] Eldar: You cannot relate anymore. Mm-hmm. You know, but it's hard to then establish this to say, you know what?

[00:31:44] I'm unhappy right now and this is my new bottom and I'm ready to go again on this journey. 

[00:31:49] Toliy: Yeah. Well that, that, that's where like the, uh, like the true progression is shown in the, uh. Um, and Socrates is method. No, I know nothing. No, I know nothing. 

[00:31:58] Eldar: Well, no. Well, you seem to know something, but then you have to again say to yourself, no, no, no, no, 

[00:32:01] Toliy: no.

[00:32:02] I don't know. Something. Yeah. Well, yeah. That, but what I'm saying is that like you're, you're your like, true progression as like you a, you as a person is showed in in times of compromise and of like, like, like it's not when like, uh, like things are like smooth sailing Sailing Yeah. When like, nothing thing is going on for, for example.

[00:32:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:32:19] Toliy: It's when like, shit hits the fan. See how you react. How you react Yeah. And how you get yourself through it. Yeah. Right. Do you need to go into a hole for like two weeks or a month? Yeah. Or multiple months, or you gonna show character or Yeah. Or, or you can kind of, you know Yeah. Navigate, break through it, because now, now you have new tools to, to use, to dig, to dig yourself out faster.

[00:32:37] Correct. 

[00:32:38] Eldar: You know, and more efficiently. But that's why it's hard to, to to, to look back Mike. Mm-hmm. And say, oh, I got here through that. That's already dead. That's dead. We have a new base now. 

[00:32:47] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:48] Eldar: You know what I mean? Now she's bored. Let's just say. Or maybe fearful about some, some future events. Yeah.

[00:32:54] You know what I mean? 

[00:32:55] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:32:56] Eldar: Before I told you, you scared somebody knocking on our door and like robbing us or something. Mm-hmm. Get a gun. 

[00:33:00] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:33:01] Eldar: I'm not scared of the modern union gun. What happened to that? It's gone. You know? Now what do we need to apply now to say like, what's the problem? You know what I'm saying?

[00:33:10] Yeah. You have to give yourself all the things that you need to do in order to calm yourself down and say like, enough is enough. I'm not, I don't believe myself anymore. 

[00:33:17] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:19] Eldar: Yeah. This is all nonsense and I told you this, this morning, all the thoughts that are gonna come our way, right? The person who has self-control and the ability to navigate these things, it's gonna say, I like this thought.

[00:33:30] Bring more. I don't like this thought next. Mm-hmm. I don't like that thought next. Oh, this one's okay. I'll detain it. You know what I mean? And you go through the sorting process automatically when you become good at it and that's it. This is what you're striving to do, right? Mm-hmm. To be able to control your mind and not the mind control you.

[00:33:48] Toliy: That's also why like. Like, especially in these kind of like stages of like development, like sharing is like the best thing I think that you can possibly do. That's what Mike's been saying. Yeah. Like the, like the fast, the faster, like you sh like e even share maybe even before you think, you know, that's when the most retarded shit comes out.

[00:34:07] Well, well, you, well yeah. That, and then you, like, you save yourself from having to put any like stock or like attention to something that doesn't make sense to begin with. But usually we like, something like comes across our desk, we invest in it. We already are like shareholders of it. Yes. And then we tell other people about it while we already invested.

[00:34:28] Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. In, in it what's happening 

[00:34:30] Katherine: now? 

[00:34:30] Toliy: Yeah. When it's like already drained 

[00:34:32] Katherine: by it. 

[00:34:32] Toliy: Yeah. Where like if you shed this in the beginning, like right away. Um, 

[00:34:37] Katherine: I should have dropped everything I was doing yesterday and zoomed over here. 

[00:34:42] Eldar: Well, you, you did make an attempt. I remember you like, oh, can we do the podcast yesterday?

[00:34:45] I, 

[00:34:45] Katherine: I, I wanted to talk to you yesterday. Yeah. And I had asked, like, you said you weren't going to the gym, so I was like, good. Like we can like talk 

[00:34:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:52] Katherine: After work. Um, but that switched up and, you know. Yeah. It's just been, 

[00:34:58] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:34:58] Katherine: It's been, 

[00:34:59] Mike: you were already 

[00:34:59] Eldar: crashing, 

[00:35:00] Mike: spiral. What? Um, when you guys spiral speaking, I remembered one thing.

[00:35:05] Uh, 'cause I just looked at it maybe like within the past few months or so, in the old office, we had a, the board remember the, uh, yeah. The one you could write on? Yeah. Or I forgot what it's called. The whiteboard. Whiteboard white. And I remember it was, we have even a 

[00:35:19] Eldar: bigger whiteboard here. We have a big, and you know, you guys, well this one sucks.

[00:35:21] Mike: You can't write on this one. Yeah. But I remembered I took pictures of all that stuff. Yeah. Right. And we sat down, we came up with a plan for myself. Things that I wanted to do. 

[00:35:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:29] Mike: Things I didn't want to do, things I wanted to work on. Yeah. And. I just remembered that and I thought, it's interesting you looked back at it.

[00:35:35] I did. Oh, nice. And I forgot already. It, it is been like, you know, a few months. I was like, you were pleasantly surprised. I was pleasantly surprised. Yeah. I was like, okay. Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:43] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:35:43] Mike: Yeah. 'cause you were in a bad hole too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that that like, uh, when your mind is going a thousand miles and you have a, I think everybody's minds going a thousand miles mostly and have a thousand negative things to thinking about.

[00:35:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:59] Mike: Being able to put that out there, really having like a, that conversation and seeing it. 

[00:36:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:36:04] Mike: And then figuring out how you want to tackle it step by step is very good. Especially for a person who has a very unorganized closet up there. 

[00:36:14] Katherine: Yeah. You know, that conversation about the trip definitely started my spiral, now that I think about it.

[00:36:19] Mm-hmm. I think that that started like a, yeah. Not the spiral, but like the good, the birth, what do we do? You 

[00:36:26] Eldar: know? Yeah. Hey, you wanna see your parents? Well, I would like to share this experience with my parents. My dad's turning 70. Mm-hmm. What is the problem? Yeah. The way she said it. She's like, you threw a wrench in my process.

[00:36:36] Damn care. That's how I felt. It wasn't you're me, me. Like, I didn't want it to be, I'm, I'm the bad guy. Yeah. I didn't mean to 

[00:36:41] Katherine: like, hurt him or anything. 

[00:36:42] Eldar: Yeah. You know what I'm saying? You hurt me, but like, that's what it is. Yeah. 

[00:36:45] Katherine: You know, it's, it's not the easiest for me. Who's 

[00:36:48] Eldar: self-centered? Who's self selfish?

[00:36:49] Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:50] Yeah. You know, the wife that gets it all. Am I doing the wrong thing? Did I spoil her? Take everything away. Take her away. Take everything away. Right. Take it back. Ship. Ship me. Why don't we just do that? Why don't we just fast forward the gloom, 

[00:37:03] Katherine: ship me to Columbia? 

[00:37:05] Eldar: No, but why? Yeah. Why don't we just ship her to Columbia?

[00:37:07] Take everything away. Let her, let her, let her, you know, fend for herself. Mm-hmm. You know, 

[00:37:12] Mike: give her a small, sever severance package. 

[00:37:13] Eldar: Yeah. You know. Why don't we just replicate it? Yeah. You know, as like an experiment. 

[00:37:19] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:37:20] Eldar: You know, survival of the fittest. Yeah. Fight against the bandidos. 

[00:37:25] Katherine: I'm not cut out for that.

[00:37:26] Yeah. You are 

[00:37:26] Eldar: Archie, right? You're just a poofy little Archie. I'm an Archie bear. 

[00:37:31] Katherine: Thank you. 

[00:37:32] Eldar: Soft poofy Archie. 

[00:37:34] Katherine: I don't have penins in me, 

[00:37:36] Eldar: you know? Yeah. 

[00:37:38] Katherine: She's scrappy. 

[00:37:42] Eldar: See, you can't have fun. You have very, very specific bubble of anxiety. 

[00:37:50] Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:50] Once a very specific way, and as soon as something's different, it's, I'm Aggie, you become an aggro.

[00:37:56] Mm-hmm. Egg roll and agro, 

[00:38:00] Mike: you know what I'm saying? Yeah. You become an aggro. Well, yeah. Logic is like the anti funn. I mean, yes. Anti no logic is the anti fund. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know. Then there's a working opposite as well. 

[00:38:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:12] Mike: Logic is fun. Yeah, logic is crazy fun, bro. It's crazy fun. Yeah, 

[00:38:16] Eldar: yeah, yeah. You know?

[00:38:24] So what you got? 

[00:38:27] That's it, right? You drain drained you. I'm on. That's it. What? That's it. What'd you think? You don't have stamina like that. Totally. I've been going, 

[00:38:34] Katherine: I've been doing this since yesterday. Like, what'd you 

[00:38:37] Eldar: think to Kent? Are you serious? Course. That's it. She's burnt out. She needs a hot bath right now.

[00:38:41] Nice foot massage. 

[00:38:44] Katherine: I a cuddle with my husband, like, yeah, that's it. It's all over. What do you think? Yeah, yeah, totally. How do you think 

[00:38:49] Eldar: this works, man? That's it. What do you mean? That's it? We were just getting started. She's burnt out. 

[00:38:54] Katherine: No, I been, did you Even from this afternoon, I'm, I'm like, I'm tired. I'm tired.

[00:39:00] I tired myself out already. You see 

[00:39:01] Eldar: that, right? It's like, it's not like physical. Like, Penny's having fun nonstop. Like she has nothing on her mind. Just ball psycho at ball. This is, 

[00:39:08] Katherine: this is called psychosomatic. This is 

[00:39:09] Eldar: just psychosomatic shit. Yeah. You just did this to yourself and you just yourself, I did this yourself.

[00:39:12] I paralleled Remember you wanted to eat the whole pie to your face when you had a little bump? Oh my God. 

[00:39:16] Katherine: I heard about the other day. Hey man, I worked 

[00:39:18] Eldar: myself out of that day. You did. You did I give you props? Like I didn't do it. 

[00:39:23] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. Yes, exactly. It's the same shit. Yeah. The, the, the thing is also, it's like as your life like, um, improves and, and like certain things that are really good.

[00:39:33] Mm-hmm. It's gonna, like what, what what also happens is that the things that aren't good get blown up like 10 to a hundred x worth than they actually are because like the, uh, disparity is like so big between good life and bad life that the pain, um, intensifies. Hmm. And like, I feel like everything feels which, which, which is a good thing it highlights.

[00:39:55] Hmm. But it so, so, so it highlights like what needs to be worked on and what needs to be done. But it also like creates a lot more suffering. 

[00:40:04] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:40:05] Toliy: In, in the short term. 

[00:40:06] Katherine: Well, the guilt. Guilt is part of it too. You know, think about it, like, I have everything. I'm, I'm, you know, I'm living a, a very privileged life, right.

[00:40:16] And I still sometimes have like days like this and I'm like, oh my God. Like, you know. Yeah. There is that guilt of course. Like, you know what he's describing, like you have it all. Yeah, I do. You know, that probably makes it harder 'cause you're like, okay, so like, what's wrong with me? You know, like, if this is not like fulfilling me or not fulfilling, but like, if this is not like, what, what's still wrong with me?

[00:40:38] Like what, what, what, what is keeping me from, you know, like you guys say have fun or just, you know, having a fulfilled life, you know? 

[00:40:46] Toliy: No, no, no. But like what do, what do you mean? Like, what's, what's wrong with you? Like what, what do, what do you mean by that? 

[00:40:52] Katherine: I think so I, it used to be a lot worse, but I still.

[00:41:00] I still experience difficulty with my mood, you know? 

[00:41:06] Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:06] Like, I don't fall into depressions like I did before. 

[00:41:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:41:11] Katherine: But it's always knocking on my door. 

[00:41:13] Toliy: Okay. How often do you have like a, like a consistent flow of your life? Like how, like, do you have consistency in the things that like consistency?

[00:41:21] You, you do? 

[00:41:25] Katherine: Yes and no. 

[00:41:26] Toliy: Yeah. So if the answer is 

[00:41:27] Katherine: consistency is really hard for me. 

[00:41:28] Toliy: Yeah. So if consistency is really hard for me, then how, how can you expect like a consistent good mood, for example? 

[00:41:34] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. 

[00:41:36] Toliy: Like if, if, if you're constantly doing like different things and shuffling different things and not consistently having like a con, like a consistent rou routine in living, then you're bound to like, you know, like go up and down like that.

[00:41:51] That would only make sense. Right. You know, but if you told me that, like, okay, like you're doing the same things each day pretty much. Right. Like there's a consistency in your flow. It's also then easier to figure out what's going on because like, like it's just e easier, right. To like, you know, self-diagnose or like to have others like help, help you.

[00:42:11] But yeah, I think that like, it, like I can't stress it how, how important it is. Like, um, like more than like what I am. And I feel like it's difficult to like understand, but um, like to, to, to me at least the salvation is, is is just sharing. 

[00:42:33] Eldar: That's your method. Yeah. But that's your method. Totally. Not everybody has that, maybe that ability or that thick skin.

[00:42:40] Right. Or believe in it, for example. That's why don't just don't just give one specific thing. Right. I think that that's why like, there should be outlets or resources out there. Like I said, education maybe, uh, for some right. For, I think for all right, in, in schooling even, you know what I mean? Um, that should also be proposed or thought about.

[00:43:00] You know what I'm saying? Like for you, I think that you found, uh, value in being able to share, you know, the things that you do say no, but no, 

[00:43:09] Toliy: but that's, no, but that's the thing. Is that like, like, like especially for people, like, like the key is what, the key to 

[00:43:16] Eldar: sharing is what to put it out there and to be what?

[00:43:18] To be to dispel some of the falsehoods that you've been carrying for all your life. Correct? Yes. And, and that's, and that's the thing. Education is the same thing. Well, it's to dispel nonsense, right? That you might have believed and you've educated your mind to, for the truth, right? Yeah. So, so, so then your mind has the ability to dis distinguish between what's true and what's not.

[00:43:38] Have the ability to logically think and critically think, read and think and analyze and understand what's actually going on versus not. And stop believing the, you know. The illusions or delusions. 

[00:43:50] Toliy: Yeah. It just feel, yeah. Yeah. It just 

[00:43:51] feels, it's same thing like for, for like a highly anxious mind. Um, like that person's like vision and like the way that they interact and look at the world is very distorted.

[00:44:02] And oftentimes, like with anxiety, you usually would have like a crazy like, imagination for like, things and the ability to like, you know, construct all these like, um, illusions. And the thing is that when you share them and you share them enough, I feel like it removes that distortion. Like it, uh, yeah. But it 

[00:44:21] Eldar: doesn't just remove, it removes it through a very specific process.

[00:44:24] She brings the distortion to the, to the middle. Right. And we are sitting here. Yeah. We analyze the fuck out of it and we tell her that she's wrong. 

[00:44:31] Toliy: Yeah, correct. Yeah. But now, no longer does that thing need, need to like, live in the anxiety world. It lives in like the real world, which, and it doesn't stand in sense.

[00:44:39] Yeah. Which, which it, it's like a fish outta water. It like it can't breathe in the real world. 'cause now, like you brought something from the. Anxiety world to the real world. And now it ha like, it, it, yeah. It can't survive. And most of the time you 

[00:44:54] Eldar: can't even bring it into the real world. Yeah. Because it doesn't stand the chance to even get into the real world.

[00:44:58] It's still somewhere in between of the world of reality and your own imagination. It never makes it to the real world because it can't. 

[00:45:07] Toliy: Yeah. It, it, it can't. But when, when you share it, you like birth it into the real world for like a second, for example, and then it, yeah. It has no, no air, it has no gas. It has no fuel.

[00:45:17] It has no like, it, it has no sustainable, no resource. Yeah. To like, stay alive, you know? And it's the smallest things. Like, like I, I, I always felt that like it's, it's a lit, it's a literal, like the, like the things that you would never like share or like the things that usually, like you think that you just understand and you don't need.

[00:45:37] I'll give you one. You ready? 

[00:45:39] Eldar: I'll give you one. You know what we have those cups, those tea cups. You said that the teacups are leaking water. And then what did I say? This is impossible. They, they're not leaking water. You are like, yes, they are. You thought that there's a hole in the glass. That's why the water's coming out.

[00:45:57] Well, 

[00:45:57] Katherine: there's, there's a, a rubber thing. 

[00:45:58] Eldar: Sure. But 

[00:45:59] Katherine: it's not like just all glass. There's like, no, but there's, there's, 

[00:46:02] Eldar: there's double It's double walled. 

[00:46:03] Katherine: It's a, yeah, it's 

[00:46:04] Eldar: okay. There's a, there's a, there's a glass right there. The first one, and there's another one. And there's, yes, there's a hole, but there's no water trapped in between.

[00:46:12] You could clearly see it. You know, the first glass would have to be, have a hole crack for the water to start leaking out. Right. But you were like, I'm convinced that this water is incorrect. And then I showed you what's actually happening. What's happening is that when you put a teabag in Right, the effect of physics or whatever, right.

[00:46:28] The teabag is sticking out. So what's happening is that the water is traveling from the teabag mm-hmm. Onto the thing and slowly going onto the glass and creating a pool of water. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And she wanted a fight on 

[00:46:39] Katherine: the teabag. The puddles quite large. Like that one that I showed you? Yeah. Like, that'll ruin its table.

[00:46:44] I can recreate this every single time. It's 

[00:46:46] Toliy: dripping from the paper. From Thet bag, you're saying? Yeah, the 

[00:46:48] Katherine: little string. But there's one particular brand that the way that their string is, is, is pretty thick. Thick, like a pu leaf thick muddy leaf. This one. Yes, that one. And like I, I'm having, see I didn't wanna say it.

[00:47:02] You know, I wasn't gonna say the brand. I know this, you see this, you see this. I know this. Yes. But I have a literal puddle. Yeah. Like on my nightstand. And if I didn't catch it on time, like it would absolutely ruin my, the string on 

[00:47:11] Toliy: that brand is like five times of thickness of the other brand, correct?

[00:47:15] Mm-hmm. And I already, like, I I, I, I've observed this. Yeah. You didn't connect it right? I, I didn't connect it, but like. Like, I definitely had like, just like wet hands, you know, from like, you know, oh, hands. Like, just like hands touching it, hands moving it, you know, my hands are constantly, we wet from grabbing it 

[00:47:28] Katherine: and it's so frustrating.

[00:47:30] I'm like, this stupid thing. So she 

[00:47:31] Eldar: argues with me. Yes. You know what? I'm like, this is impossible. I've observed these things. I'm like, watch, we have to reproduce this. Put the water in. There's not, water's not leaking. Wait. You know what I'm saying? But I have a punch I know's happening 

[00:47:40] Katherine: in that moment. Did you not realize that like I was showing it to you, like to show you that we either have to like, use a coaster or mm-hmm.

[00:47:48] Put a napkin under it. It, it was, it is more of like, Hey, like this happens a lot, so why don't we use like a coaster or a napkin, like, 

[00:47:56] Eldar: no problem. I, 

[00:47:57] Katherine: I, that's more where I was going. I, I didn't wanna say No problem. Say you, you cannot, I I wasn't fighting you on like what caused it. No. 'cause at this point we've already had the conversation.

[00:48:04] No. The worst that you're using, 

[00:48:05] Eldar: you're saying this cup is leaking water. Yeah. You can't say that. Right? I get it that you want to use a coaster. No problem. 

[00:48:11] Katherine: Right. So we've had this conversation before, and the most recent time it happened this time when you like, you know, it was a mighty leaf teabag, where it was thick enough that you were like.

[00:48:19] He proved it. I wasn't, that's not my, that wasn't my point. I, I just, at this point, it's been established. I just wanted to show you like, look, that puddle is pretty big. Let's use some coasters or, you know, napkins. 'cause we bring tea up to our nightstand every night. 

[00:48:32] Eldar: Babe, I may only making this. Forget about the water under the coasters.

[00:48:35] I get it. We'll use the coasters. Yeah. It's not a problem. He's talking about the smallest things. This is it. No, I know, I know. This is an example where your mind Yeah. Is deducing a very specific thing and saying that there's a crack in these cops. 

[00:48:48] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:48] Eldar: You understand? Yeah. I, yeah. That is your perception and understanding that this is what's happening and your convinced of it.

[00:48:53] Mm-hmm. Right. Me, I am not convinced of it. Or somebody else might not be convinced of it. Then it becomes static. Naturally you have a perception about the world and this cup and not have a perception. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? If you don't say these things out loud, they're never gonna be able to be Then what?

[00:49:10] Dispelled. Yeah. It's either you are right or I am right. Mm-hmm. One or the other. It's either the, the cup is cracked or the cup is not cracked. Yes or no? Yes. It's one or the other. It can be both. Only in Tom's world or or James's world? Yeah, it can be both. Depends how you look at it. Depends how you fucking look at it.

[00:49:27] You know what I'm saying? That's the best quote ever. Yeah. Depends how you look at it. You know the truth. Depends how you look at it. Six shirt. Yeah. Six. Sure. Truth is, well, depends how you look at it. And then put James next on. I'm gonna make that t-shirt and let Harris wear it. 

[00:49:43] Katherine: I was just gonna ask, did James say that 

[00:49:45] Eldar: James said that?

[00:49:46] Yes. A lot of times he said that. Right. James? Shout out to James. 'cause he also listens. But yeah, it's either one or the other. Right. And it's a small thing, but nonetheless, this is a perception that our mind gives us and we operate, uh, based on out of that. And a lot of times it can provide us stress and suffering.

[00:50:03] In this case, it's a small case. Obviously we can either replace the damn cups, you know what I mean? Or disagree with me or disagree with me or whatever. But these are the small things. I think that this is a good example about, 

[00:50:13] Toliy: well, well, well, yeah, because it's not about the cup, it's about that these same, like the, the like this same way of thinking.

[00:50:20] You have these same things for things that are extremely important, but you don't know about that 

[00:50:25] Eldar: and you don't take, right. This is such a trivial thing. Yeah. Right. We're talking about a little bit of water pulling up underneath the cup that your mind has automatic response. That said, the only way that this happens is when there's a crack in the cup.

[00:50:38] So like your mind is already already conditioned to be closed-minded. 

[00:50:42] Yeah. 

[00:50:43] It doesn't go in like, wait a second. Like I would like, wait a second. What are you talking about? Let's try this. You know what I mean? Let's replicate this. You know, you have to wonder to say like, okay, what is actually happening here?

[00:50:53] And the next thing you find out, I was like, oh shit, there's a transfer that's happening. You know what I mean? And I know this 'cause I garden and I've used this method to fucking water plants. You know what's like, put a those string, you put the fucking thing, it's gravity. You know what I mean? And it fucking just runs the water out.

[00:51:07] Yeah. 

[00:51:08] Toliy: Tho tho those um, strings do that, right? Yes. When they have those strings. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:51:12] Eldar: So. This small stuff can give you a perception about bigger things. 

[00:51:18] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it, it is, it, it is just like the way of thinking, obviously. Like the way of think is is not 

[00:51:23] Eldar: a is bred. Yeah. 

[00:51:24] Toliy: Yeah. Like yeah.

[00:51:24] Arrogance is bread. Um, there's no curiosity. Mm-hmm. There's no thinking that, like, you could possibly be, be wrong about this. Yeah. And those are all the same, um, like attitudes that happen towards all the other things in your life that you don't see, but cause you s suffering 

[00:51:41] Eldar: because they're automatic.

[00:51:42] Yeah. That is why the guys keep telling you that. Like, you gotta bring them out no matter what. Yes. Because we're gonna see whether or not you write about this. Yeah. 

[00:51:49] Toliy: And, and then you're, its gonna hurt. Yeah. And then like your whole tech technique as, as to like how you go about things cha changes all over time because like the more we share, um, especially in the early stages of, of sharing, you're gonna be wrong probably like 90% of the time.

[00:52:06] So think about that if you're wrong about things over and over and over and over again. Now when you run into things, you're gonna question it like in your own life. They're not gonna live as long because you're be like, well, I couldn't be wrong about this. Right. Versus you. I think that's what SOS encourages assuming.

[00:52:20] Yeah. Assuming being right again, buying the stock in that and in that company. Right. And then being a, like, automatically being a long-term investor in nonsense. You know? So, so it's like that. But, but like, yeah. Like what, what all they're saying is that like be before? Is that like, uh, like when going on the route of sharing?

[00:52:43] Yeah, like thick skin and like resilience is required because it's very difficult to bring things out to public and be wrong over and over again. Like, you're gonna feel, um, a very particular way about it. And if you're feeling is then, uh, like if the result of those actions is then to feel that you, uh, you're not sharing, like going forward now, well then like, then you'd be going about it like in the wrong way.

[00:53:07] Um, like, it's like you. Your, your, your best friend has to be being like, like being wrong would be like the main thing that you can't, like, if, if, if you think about it, um, like we, we, I mean we, we, we spoke, um, uh, spoke about this many times, but like overall, being right is like great, right? Like you're, you're your, I mean, I mean, being, being wrong is like great, right?

[00:53:32] Like, you're wrong about something. Well, now you can figure out what's actually right. So it's like you always win then, 

[00:53:40] Eldar: but that's only good if you convinced that you actually are wrong. 

[00:53:43] Toliy: Yes, yes. But yeah, then you can benefit then, then you could benefit. But yeah, but sharing enough times, it, it, it, it helps you build that like thicker skin to be wrong over and 

[00:53:56] Eldar: over again.

[00:54:01] Toliy: And being wrong over and over again. It, it helps you so much personally because yeah, like you, you then don't go down those same holes that you would before and you don't get into those like funks and you don't do that because those things are, they, they, it, it, it, it can't happen the same way because you're, you're too curious to assume anymore.

[00:54:25] Eldar: Wow. I like that. And the most important thing that you don't wanna develop is becoming an ag roll. An ag roll. You know what I'm saying? 

[00:54:36] Mike: Yeah. But it's might be part of it. It is part of it in the beginning. Yeah. If in the beginning it is, it is. Yeah. You hundred percent keep 

[00:54:43] Eldar: getting hammered, everybody. Yeah.

[00:54:45] It's the same, it's the same process for everyone until you become nice. 

[00:54:48] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:54:49] Eldar: And you realize like, oh shit. Like this is for my benefit. I'm trying to get better. And I realize that like when I do shed this nonsense, I'm happier. Im. I see things clearly. Yeah. Those things don't affect me anymore. 

[00:54:59] Toliy: Yeah. Fuck off.

[00:55:00] Yeah. You know, humor is, is really good for, for, for that because then like you, you can grow to like laugh at your stupidity and laugh at like things versus like Yes, 

[00:55:08] Eldar: yes. 

[00:55:09] Toliy: Versus be aggy and be, be attached to it so much. Yeah, yeah. You know, but like, I, I, I, I like, there, there's no way that I can explain how many things in your life, like, are you under the impression of, but you don't know it.

[00:55:24] And, and, and it's bringing you so much suffering. You only start to realize this once you share, because now all these like fantasy, like bad things in your life get put into reality and you realize that they're not real. And when you realize that they're not real, you start losing all of that stuff that you've been holding onto, you know?

[00:55:44] Um, but yeah. But, but you definitely need the resiliency to be able to be like, beat up a bit. Even the, the, the craziest part is that even the things that are bad for you or like don't serve you or bad things in your life, you will fight tooth and nail to not drop those things. Which is crazy. Yeah, 

[00:56:05] Katherine: no, it's not crazy.

[00:56:06] Toliy: Like, think about that. You're gonna fight. There's, you're gonna fight tooth, tooth and nail, but who fight not. It's usually ego though. Yes, of course. To not drop things that are bad for you. Yeah. 

[00:56:16] Katherine: Yeah. Well, you know, no other way, are you kidding me? And if you believe in, that's because you don't have the tools to believe another way you haven't developed, you know, you, you don't, you're not there.

[00:56:24] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we watch you fight for, for that, which is what you, you know, which you, we watch 

[00:56:29] Eldar: countless shows on psychological shows with, you know, love Island, love is Blind, all this other stuff. That's our 

[00:56:34] Katherine: thing. 

[00:56:35] Eldar: And we see this play out over and over and over again, right. People can't take criticism.

[00:56:40] They start tearing up, they start crying. Mm-hmm. And everybody comes for the rescue and nobody ever says, what'd you actually do? Let me, let me examine what you just did people 

[00:56:48] Katherine: actually use crying as such a manipulation? Yes. Mm-hmm. They know exactly what they're doing. Yeah. I mean, think about it. They wanna route people off.

[00:56:54] If kids learning it at a young age, how to manipulate adults with tears. Yeah. Like adults, obviously, still Oh, all these, these people 

[00:57:01] Eldar: are adults only in their mid twenties to thirties. Very much. You fucking just ready to cry. Yeah. Right? Yes. 

[00:57:06] Katherine: You, you, you, you, you move shady, you move wrong. Yes. You get called out on it, and the moment you get called out on it, because you can't cope with like, oh shit, I'm a shitty person.

[00:57:14] I did something bad. 

[00:57:15] Yes. Yes. 

[00:57:16] Then you have to immediately start crying to become the victim, or better yet pointed at the other, someone else. Mm-hmm. Like to not take the blame at all. Yeah. Yeah. So it's very interesting, like when it's not you and you're seeing it in front of you, like it, it is also clear.

[00:57:31] But when you are 

[00:57:32] Eldar: in it, 

[00:57:32] Katherine: in it, it's in it, you know, different, you know, 

[00:57:35] Toliy: you're 

[00:57:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:35] Katherine: You're, you're in it. Yep. 

[00:57:37] Toliy: You and the 

[00:57:38] Eldar: sauce. 

[00:57:39] Katherine: Yeah, 

[00:57:40] Toliy: for sure. Yeah. Like it's, it, it's, it's also very easy to like share. Like, once you've already built up to like a, like a bigger thing and you're already bought in and like you're attached to something, it's much easier to share there.

[00:57:52] Which, which even then some people don't, but it's definitely easier to share the hardest things to share. Are those Yeah. Very basic like ideals, like others saying with like the cup with this, like, Hey, I noticed this and I thought that. What do you think about that? Like, um, like if you had that kind of mind mindset, there's no way that you could fall into any kind of funks.

[00:58:12] 'cause you, you, like, you, you wouldn't be able to manufacture these kinds of like, non, non, non-existent like, like realities. 

[00:58:22] Eldar: But you need, I have to have a focused mind, a, a, a thing that can slow down enough to be able to really observe the world and make sound conclusions about the world. 

[00:58:31] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:32] Eldar: If not, then you are constantly making decisions and observations when you're distracted or under stress, and what kind of conclusions are you gonna make.

[00:58:39] Yeah. You are always under a delusion. You are always seeing things, you always have mushrooms. 

[00:58:43] Toliy: Yeah. That's why I was asking like, you know, if, if the routine is, like, if you do the same things relatively every single day, it's a lot easier to narrow down, like, yeah, what's serving you, what's not serving you.

[00:58:56] Correct. And then like, 

[00:58:57] Mike: but also it's much easier to solve, but also you have to, you know, you have to have the good reasoning why doing those routines, but because if you didn't have good conviction, it's gonna be hard to stand by those routines. 

[00:59:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:59:09] Mike: You know, of course. That's the thing. And that's why I think maybe like Ka is having a thing with, like, sometimes she's like, oh, I wanna go to the gym, but, uh, this or that.

[00:59:17] If you don't understand how certain things like impact your life in a good way or a bad way, you're just like kind of hitting lots. You just, that's what I was saying. I 

[00:59:26] Toliy: agree. That's what I was saying two weeks ago. A topic, if you don't know why, like pe people don't look at like why they're doing what they're doing and whether it's good or bad for them.

[00:59:35] Correct. Mm-hmm. There's no causality. Yes. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's exactly what I was saying. On, on, on that walk. There's no causality that see fucking implant in his head. And he just birthed, he just birthed it. Yeah. He finally, you know, he doesn't even know he's saying, doesn't even know he's, he doesn't even know it.

[00:59:50] Yeah. 

[00:59:51] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:59:52] Mike: That's a very good point. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta draw the connections of what's actually. But I also like, again, yeah. The thing is, when you have a million things that's 

[01:00:01] Eldar: causal, you need to educate your mind 

[01:00:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:03] Eldar: To be able to see causality. 

[01:00:04] Mike: But when you have a million things that your, that your shit is being pulled in, it's gonna be hard to, you know, hear that.

[01:00:13] Katherine: Hmm. I'm like, I'm going over that, that situation where, you know, I'm thinking about making a trip to visit my family. 

[01:00:23] Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:24] Um, you know, for me it's, I, I just, I wanna get some time with them. That's it. You know, my dad just went through like chemo. He's getting better. I wanna hang out with them. Mm-hmm. My mom just did the move.

[01:00:35] So like, you know, I definitely have like, excitement for it. And in the moment when Elder is like, oh, well what about my parents? Like, let's, let's bring them. I was just like, oh my God. Like, that's like a big deal. And then I think that maybe also, like, I also didn't express myself correctly, you know, like in the moment, like.

[01:00:53] The last trip that we did was a big group trip. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I felt like, you know, it's, it's, it's a lot less like strings attached and like, just going with the flow. If it's just us versus now building maybe like an itinerary for, you know, you know, people who've never been there, don't know the culture, the, you know, nothing.

[01:01:14] You know, like never been there before. 

[01:01:15] Mike: But that, but that's like a, you know, 

[01:01:17] Katherine: so in the moment I felt like overwhelmed. Mm-hmm. That's my doing, obviously. Like complicating the whole thing. Yes, correct. But I definitely didn't express it. I already lost my train of thought in why I was bringing this up. Oh. So like, I kind of like, I'm like, whoa, you know, like that's, that's kind of like a big, that's a big deal, you know, to like, take your parents, you know?

[01:01:37] So there's that, and then he's just like, well, why not? You know? He definitely is not feeling that I'm, I'm freaking out a little bit about it, you know? And he's just like, well, why not? So I pick up the phone and I make. The grave mistake, 

[01:01:52] Eldar: which I said against not to do it. And he told me, yeah, don't do it.

[01:01:55] Uh, 

[01:01:56] Katherine: but because I was feeling a type of way about this, I didn't, I didn't realize this until after I already made the offense, right? Mm-hmm. Let's call it an offense. 

[01:02:04] Yes. 

[01:02:05] I made a offense against myself. Yeah. But, um, I pick up the phone and clearly I'm feeling a certain way about this. Mm-hmm. And I'm not feeling understood by him because he's just like, what's the problem?

[01:02:15] And I'm like, can you not see this? This is a problem. You know, not a problem. But like, this is like, okay. And especially 'cause I just got off of like, planning a big trip in the summer and like, you know, I, I, I was kind of like wanting something chill. Maybe he didn't, he, maybe he had no idea that that's what I had in my mind, right?

[01:02:32] Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:33] Toliy: I'm not a mind reader. Yeah. 

[01:02:34] Katherine: No, he's not a mind reader. And 

[01:02:36] Toliy: No, but, but you're also assuming that like, it can't be chill with. The parents too. Right? Well, Marats a very sad thing. No, she's not 

[01:02:44] Mike: assuming that she's 

[01:02:44] Toliy: hundred 

[01:02:45] percent convinced it's not gonna 

[01:02:46] Katherine: be chill. Correct. Yeah. I'm convinced that it's not gonna be that way.

[01:02:48] Marat 

[01:02:48] Toliy: needed like fried fish and tequila and cigarettes and cigarettes and gambling. Hopefully a remember fish a 10 

[01:02:54] Katherine: hour ride to Ohio with them years ago. And it was rough. It was rough. So that came to mind, and I'm like, of course, that was like 10 years ago. I'm still, I'm also like, I've changed. Maybe they've changed.

[01:03:05] I'm not giving it like a chance. Yeah. What, what happened was that you, 

[01:03:09] Toliy: you, you, you were being anxious. 

[01:03:12] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:03:12] Toliy: And then you were speaking to somebody that was not feeling or Right. I understand your anxiety not there. So you found the closest person that that will be. So who's the closest person? I'm like, that'll be just as angry.

[01:03:22] I need to 

[01:03:23] Katherine: vent this. Totally. No, totally. No. All I know exactly. I need to vent this. I need to unload who you know, and I go to a person. That definitely was even 

[01:03:31] Toliy: more anxiety. Gabe gave 

[01:03:32] Katherine: me even more. No, you 

[01:03:34] Toliy: knew. You knew that you were gonna score 100% there. 

[01:03:37] Katherine: I thought. 

[01:03:38] Toliy: No, you I didn't know. Well, no, but that person No, but that person did score.

[01:03:42] It'll, it'll miss. Yes. That 

[01:03:43] person doesn't miss, don't miss person doesn't miss, no. 

[01:03:45] The anxiety person will find that person did not miss, they, they have the back, they have the record book that has a hundred percent accurate data. And that person 

[01:03:53] Katherine: made me want to not do anything like, but only, yeah, I'm ready to just not do anything.

[01:03:57] Yeah. But 

[01:03:58] Toliy: only after you were out, out, out of that. Yes. Correct. That after, after started to self reflect on it. Correct? Yes. 

[01:04:04] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. No, of course. I, yeah. After she got hit in the head, yeah. What she sat down was like, what happened here? Why did I react like this towards elder? Okay. I, I realized that like, I just got outta a group trip.

[01:04:15] A lot of stuff happened in that group trip. Big things for me. I lost some relationships. There was a lot of anxiety. That trip mean you leveled 

[01:04:20] Eldar: up. 

[01:04:21] Katherine: Yes, I leveled up. But if you don't perceived it that way, it, it's also like there's, there's a lot of work that goes into that and I, I am usually like okay with it.

[01:04:29] I like it, but like, maybe this trip, I guess I, I, that's not where I wanted to go, I guess. Like that's just not something that I was foreseeing for this one. And I definitely didn't communicate like. Appropriately, I don't think. And then I went even further and went somewhere else. That 

[01:04:45] Toliy: you went to another one.

[01:04:46] Katherine: I, I, I went into that hole, like, oh, I called my mom and then I was just like, oh my God. You know, and to top it off, like this is not a realization, this is a realization I've had before, but, um, I've been in this position with her where, um, I, I've had, I've had to like come to an acceptance or like LL learn that, um, she doesn't show up for me how I need her for, to like, for her to show up for me, you know, accepting that this person does not, cannot always provide that support that you're looking for.

[01:05:20] You know, it's happened to me like before one time when something pretty, pretty serious happened to me and, you know, I needed like a shoulder to cry on and she was nowhere to be found. So it's not like, oh, you know, you know, like it's, it's like. Trying to not take it personal. Like I know she's not doing it on purpose.

[01:05:37] Like this is just who she is and what she has to offer. 

[01:05:40] Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:41] But kind of going to her for support that like, ultimately I did not get, you know what I mean? Mm. All, all that happened was just like a, a further, further 

[01:05:52] Eldar: whole 

[01:05:53] Toliy: thing. No, but so you, you, you felt that it was a further hole, like a afterwards, after ref reflecting.

[01:06:00] Right. But in the moment, 

[01:06:01] Katherine: no, in the moment, I'm like, what the hell? Like, why did I pick up the phone and call her? You know? I think I, I, I, I, I was dealing with some emotions. I didn't know how to process them. I didn't feel understood by Eldar, and so I, I, I ran to someone else Yeah. To see if they could like, yeah.

[01:06:19] You know, under, you know, Javan or maybe understand me or I'm not sure. You know, just kind of feel And what, what did 

[01:06:25] Toliy: she say that, like, you didn't feel that way?

[01:06:30] Katherine: I started telling her, I'm like, oh, hey, you know, so like, you know, we decided that it's gonna be closer to our birthdays. And, um, you know, elder wants to bring his parents. Um, you know, I was thinking, you know, she's like, oh, okay, that's great. Maybe we, we can get you guys a hotel close to my apartment so you guys can be comfortable.

[01:06:48] And I'm like, yeah, that's not a problem. I said, you know, maybe we wanna go to Meine first. Maybe it's, it's one of the mm-hmm. Like a larger metropolitan city we've never been. Mm-hmm. And then going to my city, you know. And I, you know, like, oh, like, yeah, so that we can go here and here, and I just kind of give her like a briefing, like obviously if we're gonna go to the city, these are the two main things that we wanna do before going onto here.

[01:07:08] Okay. And then she just starts like, going off into her own stuff, like, oh, well you definitely don't wanna fly into that airport and, and this and that. She starts like, just really complicating putting her own anxieties into it, her own thing. Mm-hmm. And I'm thinking to myself, mom, you've never been to this city.

[01:07:23] Like, why are you drilling me so hard on this? Like, you've never even been there. Oh, well, you know, of course I have friends that, you know, have been there and have told me and, and this and that. So this became like, about like, this entirely other thing, like about mm-hmm. Like the, the, the, the, the little nuances of like, itinerary.

[01:07:43] So instead of me just telling, hey, like, you know, there's been changes, like obviously, yeah. You know, the trip is gonna be different. You know, I'll, I'll have to, you know, I'll set an itinerary and stuff so that, you know, like, and she just goes onto this whole, so 

[01:07:54] Toliy: let me ask you this, then. When, when you went to call her and you said that you, you were not being like, seen by Eldar and you were looking for support, like could, like if, if you had to draw out from you, like the ideal support that you would've gotten, what, what would've been like at that time?

[01:08:08] Like what, what would've happened to make you feel like, what you were looking to feel? 

[01:08:13] Katherine: I think like, at 

[01:08:13] Toliy: that time 

[01:08:14] Katherine: stopping, um, in the moment of planning, like, okay, like these are the flights that I'm looking at. These are like the kind of the dates I think that before. So like, I have a, I have a thing too, like I, this is what, what did it, things that are up in the air, like when I don't have clarity on something, like, whether like it's a yes or a no, or, but like, not having like definitive answers.

[01:08:39] Sometimes like, it allows me to then start feeling in the planks. I don't wanna fill in the blanks. So when he's, he brings it up again, like, oh, well. What if, like, let's invite my parents. It's my dad's birthday, and I'm like, are you sure? Do you wanna do that? And he's like, yeah, why not? Let's do that. 

[01:08:54] Eldar: Well, I said this before, so this iss not the first time I'm listening.

[01:08:56] So he has, 

[01:08:56] Katherine: he has mentioned it before. I didn't know he was serious, you know? And I know that his parents are currently planning some cruises to Europe or something for his seven, for his dad's 70th. So I'm like, are you sure about this? So I like, I hear through Mike, like they're making other plans. Um, so they're doing their own thing.

[01:09:14] So, you know, I, I didn't really know. So, um, you know, I'm unsure of this. I don't know if he's Sure. So he's like, well, yeah, let, let's take them. I'm like, are are you sure that they would wanna come? Is this something that they would be interested in doing? I can see his mom being interested. She likes traveling and she mentioned, I wanna go visit your mom.

[01:09:32] Yes. Mm-hmm. But I don't, this is the only why, why I said it. Well, yeah, I, I definitely, I, I definitely don't see this being something that my father-in-law would enjoy. Or that he would be interested in. Of course, that's true. I I, I could be wrong about that, but like I, my mom just wants to 

[01:09:45] Eldar: go with us somewhere, you know?

[01:09:46] Yeah. Somewhere. Yeah. She's always telling me this shit. Yeah. 

[01:09:49] Katherine: So like, I'm like, I'm already in the zone of like, okay, like let's find dates and like, let's book our tickets. So then when he says this to me, and I'm like, okay, so like, let's find out, like, do we know this for sure? And he's like, okay. So I'm like, okay, let, let's call and ask like, are they interested?

[01:10:03] Is this something that they would wanna do? So he calls and asks, and his mom is like, you know, da, like, of course, you know? Yeah. And then like, if she asks Marad and he's like, who's gonna take care of the dog? So, you know, we give him an answer for that. And then I guess, like, they give us a yes. I think in that moment before telling Eldar, like, okay, let's find out if they're interested.

[01:10:24] I, I just like, if I would've paused in that moment, like, aside from the buzzing and just pause and said like, okay, is this like, you know, is this, do you wanna do this? Is this really something that you wanna do before going ahead and asking, you know. In that moment, I felt like, oh, this is a lot. But like, I've now that like it happened, uh, I'm also thinking like, like, what's the big deal?

[01:10:51] You know? So in the moment I felt like, oh my gosh. Like, like, you know, I guess no, but I like the process was thrown. 

[01:10:59] Toliy: Like I, I I thought the way that you were talking about it was that like you weren't feeling like seen or like understood. So you went to your mom who you thought would, would, would like hear you out and, and, and like you would feel understood?

[01:11:11] Yeah. Just 

[01:11:11] Katherine: be like, Hey. Yeah. Like, it's a change, you know, like, of course, like, you know, you ha you know, you gotta change. Oh, see, I, I thought you, I set an itinerary, but like, you know, like, we got it, it's gonna be fine. You know, whatever. It, she starts like drilling me about something completely different and I was like, what the fuck?

[01:11:27] I thought you were 

[01:11:27] Toliy: wanting, you, you, you were hoping for her to be like, oh yeah. Like, if they like, like bringing them wood, like Yeah, it would be a lot. It would like I understand what you're saying. No, no. Like, 

[01:11:35] Katherine: I, like, I, I, I think for her, like, she was surprised that they wanted to go, but like, no, it wouldn't have been like, uh, like a bad thing.

[01:11:42] It would've just been like, okay, that, that should no felt lot on my plate. 

[01:11:45] Toliy: So when you felt it was a bad thing, um, like you're saying that like, elder didn't understand that? 

[01:11:52] Katherine: Well, when I asked him, like, wait, like he saw my reaction, my reaction was like, wait, are you sure? Like, is that something you wanna do?

[01:11:58] Like, is that like serious? Like, do you think that they would wanna come? You know, I have feelings 

[01:12:02] Eldar: too.

[01:12:06] Katherine: He couldn't wait to say that. 

[01:12:09] Eldar: I'm just a little boy and I have feelings too. Couldn't wait to say that. I have parents. 

[01:12:12] Yeah. 

[01:12:13] That also love their son. 

[01:12:15] Yeah. So I said, yeah, of course

[01:12:23] I live down the road, you know?

[01:12:29] So yeah. I said yes, and then it was like, you know, I became the bad guy because when she was, you know, reflecting back on it, she used, she uses very specific words and obviously I'm a very sensitive boy as well. I'm much more sensitive than my wife, you know. She said, throw a wrench in my process. 

[01:12:48] She has a process and I'm a wrench in that process.

[01:12:54] That's when I said, okay, go by 

[01:12:55] yourself. Like what's I, don't worry about it. I'll cancel this shit. You can say that. I did say that 

[01:13:00] Katherine: you can tell me to go by myself. 

[01:13:01] Eldar: I said, yeah, yeah. I said, but I don't need this problem. If you have anxiety, you have too much problems with this. No, you said don't put 

[01:13:07] Katherine: it on you.

[01:13:08] Don't put it on me. If you have anxiety, you know what I'm saying? Don't put it on me. That's what you said. I said, 

[01:13:11] Eldar: don't put it on me. Cancel the whole thing. Don't worry about them. I'll explain to them that we're not going, and you just go and visit your parents and just have a good time. If that's what you need, go do it.

[01:13:20] Katherine: I was looking forward to us going away together, you know, as always, like, you know, just individually. Yeah, that's, that's what I had, I think, envisioned in my mind. Yeah. You know, 

[01:13:32] Eldar: always envision in your mind, very specific scenario. 

[01:13:35] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:13:36] Toliy: But the counter argument is like the argument you were saying with this parent, the counterargument would be like, well, you guys live together, right?

[01:13:42] Katherine: Yeah. I guess. I guess you could say that, but you go away together every day. Unless, unless you're in this marriage, or I guess unless you're us. Like you, you don't know. Sometimes 

[01:13:51] Eldar: you wanna flush things. You don't see new sin, scenery, you know? 

[01:13:54] Katherine: You know, you, you, I guess you, yeah. 

[01:13:57] Eldar: Yeah. I guess you could say that.

[01:13:59] Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that we create arguments towards our side all the time and, and if they don't stick Yeah. Right. And if somebody finally gives you a little pushback yeah. Your whole world crashes down. 

[01:14:12] Mike: But I think it's like a, like knowing your parents mm-hmm. And knowing Kathryn A. Little bit. Yeah. I think her and, and probably in general for people like who are, yeah.

[01:14:24] Who like. It's hard to deal with people sometimes. Mm-hmm. I guess for some people. Correct. And Kat hasn't found the approach Correct. Where she can feel empowered in that Correct. Engagement. Because your mom, she's a bull. Correct. She could be a hammer. Correct. And if you allow her to put that on you Correct.

[01:14:42] And you learn to have fun with it. Just like, 

[01:14:45] Eldar: just like her mom brings out the best of Catherine. Yes. My mom can bring out the best of Catherine as well. A hundred percent. And what is Catherine trying to do? Run? Yeah, just trying to hide that as much as possible. Because cabby becomes an aggro. 

[01:14:56] Mike: Yeah, she does an aggro.

[01:14:59] Somebody's ordering Chinese tonight. Guarantee. Yes. Guarantee. Yes. I got, I got two. 

[01:15:02] Eldar: Agros for you. If you want tonight, then you can have a party of three. 

[01:15:08] Toliy: Oh my 

[01:15:08] Mike: god. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. But again, it's gonna always tie back to the thing of having fun, like your mom is od Yeah. Anytime we hang out her even to get a haircut.

[01:15:20] Yes. It's, I get a haircut for an hour, bro. Yeah. Mostly it's just philosophy and venting. Yes. And like, you know, talking advice, talking shit. Yeah. Laughing. Yeah. Talking shit. Yeah. You know, and Yeah. Sometimes she does hammer. Correct. A lot of the times she does hammer. But if you know how to have fun with it That's right.

[01:15:33] You don't a let it affect you or you throw it back at her. And then when she realizes like she's getting in trouble, she's like, she doesn't want to go there anymore. That's right. 

[01:15:40] Eldar: Yes. She knows how to pivot and you know this, I know this. Yes, I know this, you know, this totally knows, knows practices with his parents as well and his dad and stuff like that.

[01:15:47] But Catherine yet hasn't gotten reached that level yet. Yeah, right. 

[01:15:50] Katherine: Not to mention it's, it's different because I'm your wife. 

[01:15:53] Eldar: None 

[01:15:53] Katherine: of it matters. So I, I think that, I think that that's a little bit different. 

[01:15:56] Mike: But again Yeah, that's, that like rebuttal is Yes. Is like saying like, no, the water is, uh, leaking.

[01:16:01] Yeah. You're not giving, like, you're not bringing a lo logical argument to a argument. Like you're just bringing a, a logical thing. Yeah. Totally. Is gonna say, what does that mean? What 

[01:16:09] Katherine: do you mean? 

[01:16:09] Mike: You're, you're just using something, but it's not a logical thing. Faster told. Yeah. 

[01:16:13] Katherine: Well, like in terms of my relationship with Farida?

[01:16:15] No. In terms 

[01:16:16] Eldar: of relationship, you my wife? 

[01:16:17] Katherine: No, I'm just saying I'm your wife. Like, I, I, I, there's, there's maybe like a, a thing that I don't wanna cross with Farida, like in rebuttals or making fun of her because like, 

[01:16:27] Eldar: you should definitely, 

[01:16:28] Mike: I I'm like your daughter-in-law, you know what I mean? If a person is acting like the way farida acts, which is like a, like a pen wins.

[01:16:34] Yeah. You have to have fun with it. You have, you have to throw the ball. You have to throw a ball. Yes. You have to, you have to, like, for, 

[01:16:40] Toliy: for example, like there, there's times of getting a haircut and this is like pro, probably like, like, I don't know, like there, there's probably times your mom feels like you're, you're, I don't know, not spending enough time or like ignoring her or whatever.

[01:16:50] Yeah. So she'll start throwing shit at Elder. You know, like, like, you know, oh, like this, this, I'm like, yeah, he, yeah. Like, yeah. He sounds like, like, uh, bad. You know, like, like he's bad person's a bad song. Yeah. 

[01:17:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:17:01] Toliy: And then she goes, she goes, she goes and she realizes like what she's telling. She, 

[01:17:04] Eldar: she was like, and what Tony's extracting from me.

[01:17:06] Yeah, yeah, 

[01:17:07] Toliy: yeah, 

[01:17:07] Eldar: yeah. And then like, towards 

[01:17:08] Toliy: the end, she goes, 

[01:17:09] Eldar: nah, I know he loves me. He, he's a good, good son. Don't tell him, don't tell him, don't tell him anything. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm, I, I'm supporting her argument, you know, like I'm throwing it. Yeah. 

[01:17:18] Toliy: Then I'm like, yeah, like, yeah. Like, you know, like, like, like, yeah, that sucks.

[01:17:21] I don't know why he's doing that. And, and then, and, and then to her at the end, she, yeah, she, she, she always says the same thing. She's takes it all back. She's like, no, he invites me for walks, you know? No, no, no, no, no. He's a good son. He is a good son. You know? Yeah. Yeah. But like, she's ready to throw, throw as much shit as possible.

[01:17:36] Yeah. You know? 

[01:17:37] Eldar: Yep. And she's a paper tiger. Yes. Yeah. But you have to learn how to have fun with this kind of stuff. 

[01:17:43] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. But if you have the anxiety, you're scared to speak your mind. Yeah. Or if you can't speak your mind in a non roll way. Yeah. 

[01:17:50] Eldar: Or you, you're gonna be done, I will go to Columbia. I will go to Columbia with you one-on-one just to see your parents.

[01:17:55] If you say, babe, I just want to hide. 

[01:17:59] Katherine: No, I like that. I'm okay with that. I, I have, I've decided like, like, not decided, but like, we're not like, no, they're, they're gonna come. 

[01:18:07] Eldar: I know. I'm just saying that if you want, you have to say it out loud. Right. You have to kind of own it. 

[01:18:11] Katherine: Well, I wanna hide regardless. I know.

[01:18:13] Not trying to hide. Yes, of course. But again, 

[01:18:16] Eldar: you have to properly communicate it. Right. Or say, Hey. My shit's fucked. You know what I mean? Don't wanna deal with this. We just have this conversation on how you guys 

[01:18:23] Katherine: communicate with Farida, for example. Yeah. She catches me all the time. Yes. Where she's complaining.

[01:18:28] She's so like miserable about everything. You're learning about it though, you recently and and I'm like trying to like reason through with her. 

[01:18:34] Yeah. Remember that last? She's actually, she's not this now. Yeah. Like it's unbeliev. This, this new phenomenon. She, I go into this rabbit hole epiphany with 

[01:18:43] her.

[01:18:43] She's telling me about losing all of her clients, having to fly to Deanna all the time. This is very stressful for her and it's very stressful for her to lose her clients. So I'm trying to say like, okay, like, which one are we choosing? Are we choosing to not be a grandma and to have clients? Or are we choosing to be a grandma and lose the clients?

[01:19:00] It, it can't go both ways. You can't be in, in Atlanta and here at the same time, you have to choose one. Right. So we, you know, we're digesting, I'm hearing this out and then like everything she says. Is a 180. She 

[01:19:15] Mike: takes it back. Yeah. This is regular. Yeah. 

[01:19:17] Katherine: And I'm like, what the f Yeah, what is happening? All you do is complain.

[01:19:21] And then, you know, I'm sitting, I mean, I'm trying to digest it with you, like, let's reason through it. And like it's just all like, oh, no, no, no, everything's fine. Yeah. It's okay. I'm just gonna, you know, do 

[01:19:32] what gotta do, complain about my clients 

[01:19:33] and I'm gonna complain about Deanna and do not do anything about it.

[01:19:36] I'm like, oh my God. It hap it's, it's been starting to happen and I'm like starting to realize that. I'm like, okay. Like having a conversation with her is, I don't what to, what do I do with this? Like, it's pointless. Like, I don't know what to do. 

[01:19:48] Toliy: Well, you Yeah. Like, you 

[01:19:50] Katherine: doesn't make any sense. 

[01:19:51] Toliy: Yeah. Like, um, 

[01:19:52] Katherine: I actually don't know how to make sense of it.

[01:19:55] Toliy: Well, like, you, you, yeah. Like, you, like I think you just have to let, let her like, you know, let, let it out. But like, you have to know that like the person's a paper tiger and most people like, stuff's not that bad. Like it's just not that bad. But 

[01:20:08] Mike: No, but you already know, like, it's like, it's like you go and let's say you saw your favorite movie, right?

[01:20:15] And you've seen it 10 times and there's some crazy, like dramatic moments. You're not gonna be as surprised on the 10th time. Yeah, yeah. You are like, I know what's happening. You know what's happening. Right. It's not gonna be such a shock or surprise or like, oh wow, what a plot twist. 

[01:20:27] Eldar: Well, she's finally seeing the pattern.

[01:20:28] Yes. That's the thing. Yes. No. Yeah. When when you don't pay attention and you don't focus, I think 'cause you're constantly in your own mind. Yes. Right. You don't see these patterns and you can't draw a proper conclusion. Correct. So that's why finally it hit captain. She had an epiphany. She's like, yo. Mm-hmm.

[01:20:40] These conversations with your mom is wild. Yes. 'cause this is how they end up and like. That's all I needed to do. I didn't need to give her feedback. I need to solve any problems here. You know? I just need to listen to her because like, like she don't even care like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm like, yeah, exactly.

[01:20:52] I told you it's all just nonsense. Yes. Yeah. Well, 

[01:20:55] Katherine: I think it's like I've been trying to maybe be more present in my conversations with her. Be more mindful maybe. Yeah. And 

[01:21:00] Eldar: that is why you came to the right. Conclusion. Conclusion. And I think 

[01:21:01] Katherine: that's why I'm like, oh my God, a lot of times when it's elder and I with her and she's kind of talking to both of us, and then him, there's a lot of times where like he'll pick up the conversation, he'll pick up the slack, or he'll challenge her.

[01:21:15] And so like, it doesn't follow on me, but like, if it's just me and her having the conversation and I'm, you know, trying to see, like, understand what's going on, where's this coming from? Like, you know, uh, like I, I just realized like, no, you're not, 

[01:21:29] Toliy: you're, you're not being yourself in those conversations. I think that that's why like they're going how they're like going, you know, like.

[01:21:39] You're, you're, you're like listening, but you're like, I, I, I feel at least babe, based on what you're saying, like, you're not, you're like afraid to speak out. You're afraid to like, ask a question. You're, you're, you're, you're not No. Actually feel the 

[01:21:50] Katherine: opposite. Like, I feel like for the first time, uh, like I am starting to, to ask questions and to like try to understand.

[01:21:58] No, you can't get to that. 

[01:21:59] Toliy: No, no. But you can't get to the feeling that you're feeling like, like you can't get yourself to that point if, like, if you are able to be like yourself, uh, like I feel like you, you wouldn't get to a point of like frustration. You, you would just be like. Like running circles around person.

[01:22:17] What he's saying that you 

[01:22:18] Eldar: wouldn't Yeah. You wouldn't allow the person to ramble for as, as long as they did. Uh, and then conclude that like, what the hell you would've stopped them. Which I do all the time, right. With my mom. Yeah. You stop her all the time. It's like, as soon as she said some nonsense, I'm like, okay, why'd you say this?

[01:22:31] Explain to me, I'd like to know. We can't continue the conversation until you explain to me what this right here means. And a lot of times conversation ends right there. 

[01:22:40] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:22:42] Eldar: Where you being a little bit more polite. Yeah. A little bit more nice because you Yeah. That, that stance I could 

[01:22:46] Katherine: do with my parents.

[01:22:47] Toliy: Ah, 

[01:22:47] Katherine: but that's, that stance is, is, is, is a little tougher for me with your mom. Think 

[01:22:51] Toliy: about this. How, how does a person explain a dumb thing to, to you? Like you, when you call them out to explain that? I'm like, I'm not, imagine 

[01:22:59] Katherine: her situation. Explain it. I'm not saying, you know what, like her, her situation is dumb.

[01:23:04] I think. I think it's valid that like she has had this attachment to her job for so many years, for example. Um, and then, you know. Having to travel so often as a woman that's getting a little bit older, like she's set, you know, it's hurting her body. She's coming back really, really tired, for example. So, you know, I'm, to me, logically it's like, okay, why don't we start letting go of work a little bit, work less or don't work at all and just retire and be there for your grand granddaughter, because like, that's what means the most to you right now.

[01:23:35] Like that's, she'll drop anything for them. Yeah. And like that makes her happy. But then she had another, another thing which was absolutely not Marat. Uh, like she has to, she had this, has this pride thing with, with her husband, where uh, she has to make money and say like, Hey, me too, like, throw money at, at, at the bills or whatever.

[01:23:57] Mm-hmm. She can't just say, I said, maybe it's time to have a conversation with your husband that you can't work anymore. You can't be in Atlanta and have your clients at the same time. Then she has all these reasons why. No way. Like she, she can't, she can't say that. She can't have that conversation about, and I'm not even sure if any 

[01:24:12] Mike: of those reasons actually the truth.

[01:24:13] So like, I'm not, the truth is I'm not sitting here. She, the truth is she can't stop buzzing it. She, she'll be impossible for her to, but like in that just Right things, totally saying 

[01:24:20] Katherine: like, you what, like you can't see that that's kind of up in that moment. I'm not like, it's fair. Like she has to let go of this identity of, of working and being the buzzer that she is.

[01:24:29] Yeah. And being, you know, a, a, uh, help to her daughter as a grandma, right? Mm-hmm. So like, these are all, you know, things that make sense to me. You see? Like, but it's at the end when I'm, I'm, I'm seeing her stance on all of it. I'm like, oh, okay. Like this was like totally pointless. 

[01:24:43] Eldar: Yeah. But you see, but it's not because the point, the actual point here is what Mike just said.

[01:24:48] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:48] Eldar: Like the chaos that you're in, my mom is in, right? Mm-hmm. This is who you are. This is your identity. And the truth of the matter is you don't wanna let that go. So keep doing it. No, 

[01:24:56] Katherine: I realize that. I did realize that. Yeah. She wants to have a thousand 

[01:25:01] Eldar: things to juggle. A hundred percent. You know what I mean?

[01:25:02] There's a, everybody, like, generally 

[01:25:05] Mike: everybody, not just Rita, everybody does this. They buzz, of course. Yeah. So they don't have to face actually what is the happen in their lives. Yeah. And this is a known hiding technique, running technique, whatever you wanna call it. Yeah. Everybody does this. And I think she's been doing this for a very long time and she's never been checked.

[01:25:21] Never been stopped. Yeah. You know, I mean, you, we check, you check her. Yeah, I know that. But she's never stopped. Yeah. She's still like, she's running around like a mad lady. Yeah. And you know, in her age, like, and she doesn't wanna stop, you know, because she's fing, she's scared, she's getting older, you know, she still wants to do shit.

[01:25:37] She feels like she missed out on shit. Like whatever reasons her, her things are, she won't be able to stop buzzing, you know? But it's like a protection thing from whatever those intrusive thoughts are. Yeah. That. Where from, from. So if the, 

[01:25:50] Eldar: the point, the whole point is that if you knew how to properly always, uh, engage in these types of conversations, always come out of them on top.

[01:25:58] Have fun with them, enjoy them. You wouldn't care. Yeah. You wouldn't care about their presence. You over there, like, uh, you over the game, you would enjoy 

[01:26:04] Mike: it. Yeah. You're getting basically like a abused. So I'm not supposed to you by not speaking out. No, you're not supposed to. What? No, I'm not 

[01:26:11] Katherine: supposed to care.

[01:26:12] Mike: No care about what? 

[01:26:15] Katherine: About my relationship with her. Like, like no, you, no. You're not supposed connecting with her. You're not supposed to have 

[01:26:20] Toliy: attachment or, or, or buy into what they're saying. Absolutely not. You're supposed to do that. You'll be on like the craziest like seesaw life. Like of you're supposed to care, 

[01:26:29] Mike: but you're supposed to respect 

[01:26:30] Toliy: yourself.

[01:26:31] Yeah. That's number one. And if you respect yourself, hammer, you organically 

[01:26:34] Eldar: care. You don't have to make an extra effort Yeah. To 

[01:26:37] Toliy: care. But like your, so what's the the right 

[01:26:39] Katherine: way to do this? 

[01:26:39] Toliy: No, but like your, your, your level of care, I, I, I think at least should be dictated by. This person's lovable of care.

[01:26:47] But most people will just tell you about things and they don't actually care about them themselves. 'cause like they're not ready to put any kind of actions. Correct. Or do, or do, do anything. And you're, you're ready to go or like you're ready to help solve some something. Like they're just venting or just talking.

[01:27:02] And they're like, they don't care, so why are you gonna care? But if they show you like, Hey, like I'm really serious about this. Like, I'm ready to take actions. Like I'm ready to do this stuff. Like, like caring for you will make sense. I don't care because they're don't be natural. Yeah. But most of the time they don't care.

[01:27:19] You're caring and then that clash happens and you're like, well, what the hell? 

[01:27:24] Mike: This was pointless. I just imagined like, the most funniest thing that cat's like sitting through, you know, like those worst, the worst of the commercials that they have when you watch Mm. And like the most annoying ones and you just basically subjected to watch it.

[01:27:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:35] Mike: You know? And I feel like that's how Ka is. Like she's watching this thing. Yeah. Farah's just unloading on her. Yeah. And she can't change the channel. Yeah. Because even though she, she has access to remote. Yeah. She can. And I feel like Yeah. Like you're just sitting there taking it and I like, it's, it's crazy because Fara is nonstop.

[01:27:51] Yeah. She could talk for hours and hours. Yes. Like, she does not care. So Julius her, she, she Julius, she, she 

[01:27:56] Katherine: overwhelms me, you know, and for sure get rid of world. 

[01:27:59] Mike: Yeah. When she's on like a rampage. Yeah. And you just sit there and you take it. It's like, you basically like, yeah. You just respecting yourself like crazy.

[01:28:06] And until you like, uh, you know, just like learn how to see her for who she is and give her the approach that's actually needed. 

[01:28:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:28:13] Mike: You are just gonna be like, yeah. And that's not, I'm not like, you're not gonna be disrespectful to her by giving her approach. You could actually be the most honest to her.

[01:28:20] Yeah. By giving her exactly what she needs to combat her 

[01:28:22] Eldar: own Yeah. Sickness. When you ask her that question and say, Hey, Farida, like, it sounds like, uh, your life is very chaotic. Yeah, it is. But it also sounds like you like it. Yeah. What, what? Yeah. You're gonna throw her off completely. You're completely throw her a virus into her system.

[01:28:38] Like what do you mean I don't like it? Yeah. I don't like, okay, so why do you do it? And then you have a conversation. 

[01:28:43] Toliy: No. And then you don't have a conversation. Or don't, or my mom run 

[01:28:46] Katherine: away. Yeah. Like we actually got a point where it was like, okay, so like you're so exhausted. Like all of October, you weren't here, right?

[01:28:54] 'cause you were flying to Florida to, to meet with, uh, Atlanta, wherever her daughter lives. Um. She's like, yeah. And I'm like, okay. And you're really stressed out about the clients. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, well did you tell Deanna, like, try to work out a date that works out for the both of you? No, no, no. I can't do that.

[01:29:09] Yeah. Okay. So then like mm-hmm. Why are, you know, like, why are we complaining about it? Like, you know, if you didn't say anything, oh, no, I can't. That's my daughter. I can't do that. 

[01:29:17] Toliy: Okay. Yeah, she's the first one to show videos of, of Mila, you know, this, that, yeah, of course. 

[01:29:22] Katherine: She absolutely loves that child. Of course.

[01:29:25] Like I'm understanding of her. Yeah. The the in between is like, you wanna be the grandma, but you also wanna ha you know, she wants everything. 

[01:29:31] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. Like in between is just like, again, it's like, it, it like, it's just complaining and not seeing things for, for what they are. But, 

[01:29:38] Katherine: but the truth is like the biggest thing over losing the clients over having to travel.

[01:29:42] The, the biggest one is probably the saddest one, which is like the ego with her husband. That's the one, that's the one that's getting her. She can't let go of this, I like this, her clients or whatever. Because she feels like, I think that it has always been like a, I can do this too. Ra, you can work and earn.

[01:30:02] I can do it too. You know? And now it's like, okay, well, you know, you, you can't do both. Oh, she, but she has to. She's that, that attachment to the job is, it's her ego to show morat. Like, I can still do this. Like, and I can still contribute. I look, I can make money. You know, that's also 

[01:30:20] Eldar: been disproved. That's all bullshit.

[01:30:21] Katherine: So that, that's like, yeah. That's also bs. That's, that's just a, that's everything's bs ego's fighting there because 

[01:30:25] Mike: most people don't really know what the hell's going on. Exactly. 

[01:30:28] Eldar: Running. 

[01:30:29] Katherine: They just running around. Why can't she just talk to her husband and say, Hey, you know, like, come 

[01:30:32] Mike: on. 

[01:30:33] Eldar: No. You know, told her like, you guys are not 

[01:30:35] Katherine: gonna starve.

[01:30:35] Everything is fine. Like, what's the problem here? No 

[01:30:38] Eldar: mo mo The biggest thing I think is what Mike said is that, you know, the fact that she's just buzzing about just to keep hiding from herself. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. You know, and it has to be reckless. The buzzing has to be reckless. It has to be like distorted edge seat.

[01:30:52] Huh? It has to be like edge seat. Yeah. Yeah. It has to be like that suspenseful. Mm-hmm. It's, it has to be like that. It's in order to put down whatever negative, bad thoughts that are in your mind that keep you up at night. Yeah. Have to, you know, that's what's gonna subside those the only thing that's gonna subside them.

[01:31:06] Yep. Always being on the edge. Yeah. With this weird stuff. So. Alright baby, what'd you learn? How well you didn't learn

[01:31:17] aside from how good your husband is? I wanna hide. You wanna hide? You wanna put hide in seeks though? Yeah. That's fair. 

[01:31:22] Yeah. 

[01:31:24] Still wanna find your purpose though? No. Or that's dead? 

[01:31:27] Katherine: I don't know. I don't know anything. 

[01:31:31] Eldar: Oh, 

[01:31:31] Katherine: I don't know what I want. 

[01:31:33] Eldar: Are you trying to channel Socrates 

[01:31:35] Katherine: something? I need a miracle.

[01:31:38] Toliy: Yeah. That's cousins. They, now you're channeling. Cause now I need a miracle. That's bad. Trying to find, find, find the portal. Hmm. 

[01:31:45] Katherine: Yeah. Or a cliff. 

[01:31:48] Eldar: Yeah. Well, listen, Farah's right there waiting for you. If you want. She on the edge of it. You need something? No. Mike, what you got? 

[01:31:56] Mike: Final thoughts? 

[01:31:57] Eldar: Yeah. On this purpose stuff.

[01:31:59] Clearly we purpose killed it as always. Yeah. Totally killed it. 

[01:32:04] Mike: Well, purpose is not dead. Yeah. Uh, purpose. What are my final thoughts on it? 

[01:32:11] Eldar: Oh, advice for cat. 

[01:32:12] Mike: Advice for Cat because it was cat centered. Um, I have to think about it. Maybe if totally has something in the coming out the oven. Final thoughts.

[01:32:22] Don't say eat an egg 

[01:32:23] Eldar: roll coming outta the oven. 

[01:32:27] Toliy: Um, why don't you go out there then? We'll, pig, we'll piggyback off. 

[01:32:32] Eldar: I think, uh, the biggest thing here, as you can see that a lot of times if you start conversations and genuinely put stuff out there, you quickly find out that what you were suffering from before.

[01:32:44] It is like, probably not what you're actually suffering from. You know what I mean? I totally put it right. 

[01:32:48] Katherine: Obviously there's a root to tell all this, this yes. As Mike put it, 

[01:32:50] Eldar: right. These examples that we talk about is that like, let's see it, let's see what sticks actually. And then you quickly find out that none of us shit sticks.

[01:32:59] Usually. You know what I, it's usually anxiety. It's usually these illusions that we created, these images in our minds mm-hmm. That, uh, we overblown out of proportion, right? And we say to ourselves that like, oh, this is it. And like, if it doesn't work out this way, and we start just like magnifying everything and we can only do this, you know how and solitude we always talk about this because as soon as you bring another person in and try to make sense of this, uh, mirage that you're seeing, they might not see it.

[01:33:32] Most likely. You're not gonna be able to convince 'em of this nonsense unless they're stupid. Then maybe they're gonna, you know, comfort your com, uh, your, your, what's his name? Alligator Tears. Crocodile Tears. 

[01:33:44] Katherine: Yeah. I think that happens a lot. People 

[01:33:47] Eldar: that happens a lot. Console, you know, like, 

[01:33:49] Katherine: but like, they don't know that.

[01:33:51] But if, yeah, it's actually counterproductive. 

[01:33:53] Eldar: But if you genuinely bring it to the table and people actually gonna start thinking and asking questions around it, trust me, there's gonna be somebody who was gonna ask the question that you didn't think of, and all of a sudden all that nonsense has to fall apart and it's nonexistent anymore.

[01:34:09] And you go back to what? Maybe wondering, like a child maybe being, looking for fun, looking just to enjoy yourself freely. I think that's the whole goal of life, you know what I mean, too, to keep examining the shit so you can then have a choice in the matter or a say in the matter, you know? And right now, babe, you don't have a say in the matter.

[01:34:31] You're just like a pinball and somebody else controlling it. Yeah. This way, that way, that way you're like, oh, it feels 

[01:34:36] Katherine: like that. 

[01:34:36] Eldar: Oh, oh. From one wall to another. You know? For now, maybe one day you'll have control, you'll have the ability to be empowered enough to be able to put yourself in any type of far to fire or whatever fire, you know, and come out of it on top.

[01:34:52] Not frustrated, not agro, you know? Mm-hmm. But that you had fun. 

[01:34:58] Yeah. You know, that's it. That's what 

[01:35:02] I have. But for now, you have to keep examining for now as much 

[01:35:07] Katherine: Suffer. 

[01:35:08] Eldar: Yeah. Suffer as much as possible. Continue to be agro. Keep trying to keep shooting those daggers at me. I ain't gonna work as you know, you know, I have pretty thick skin against your bullying,

[01:35:22] you 

[01:35:22] know, and that's it. You know, keep examining you. 'cause I think that is actual the purpose I agree with totally. That, uh, our life, I think is, should be surrounded around. Trying to understand what the fuck we are, who we are and why we are. Right. So we can have as much fun as possible because we know that there's fun to be gotten.

[01:35:42] And if you're not convinced of that, you have to listen to the episode number one, which was all about fun. Totally. And your thoughts like you were birthed. Those are my final thoughts. 

[01:35:54] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like in general, I'm gonna go back to what, what I was saying in the beginning. I think, you know, I can't like get around the fact of sharing 

[01:36:05] Eldar: Hmm.

[01:36:05] Toliy: You know? Yeah. Because sharing like, like it brings conflict potentially. It brings like a fight. Yeah. It brings opinions. Yeah. Right. Um, and when like your, your, um, anxiety or your beliefs are brought into like opinion, then you could see like, what's going on? Are you actually right? You might be on some things Right.

[01:36:33] So like, yeah, I, I can't go around the importance. Like, I feel like it's such a hack to, to like, share. Um, but like no one wants to share because they feel like, I don't know, it's maybe not helpful. They're not gonna get what they're looking for. May maybe like people won't understand or like they don't feel it's important enough to like share.

[01:36:54] But it is all, all of it is important enough and it's the small, smallest things. Um, because all those small things, they have like ways of thinking, ways of dealing with things that are like Yeah, the roots built, yeah, built, built into them that you, you, you just have no clue about. Which, which is why, like, even if you're like, if you're blindly sh sharing, like there's no way that you can't, um, over time like improve and get into a good place.

[01:37:22] Like there's zero chance, I would say on 

[01:37:23] Katherine: benefit. 

[01:37:24] Toliy: Yeah. Like you're a hundred percent going to win by, by sharing. 

[01:37:30] Eldar: Sharing is scar. Mike, what you got? So share something, please. Yeah, please share it. Yeah. 

[01:37:36] Mike: So, huh. Wh when you guys are speaking, it reminded me, you know, of my, uh, of my thing, my journey. Mm-hmm. You know, and I remember when I was like, uh, it was a couple years back and I came two you guys like, yeah.

[01:37:47] Mm-hmm. I know I'm a criminal and I don't trust myself. Mm-hmm. So I need you guys to audit me, like, call me out as much as possible on everything, because I understood how I am, how dangerous I'm to myself. 

[01:37:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:37:59] Mike: You know? So, um, that was just something that just kind of like, uh, reflected, you know, I remembered and I think a lot of times we don't really realize how dangerous we are, how dangerous our negative thoughts are, our, uh, illogical thoughts are and all that stuff.

[01:38:14] And how ignorant we are. How ignorant we are. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, obviously. You know, we are in, in our group, we definitely, you know, share a lot and we speak a lot and we put ourselves on the chopping block a lot, which is definitely great. Um, and, uh, it definitely, obviously helped me and I feel it. And, um, but I also do think there is other, like other things like you recommended to go back to school and I think that's a good idea because Kat did say, you know, she said she was the way she spoke about psychology today.

[01:38:50] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[01:38:51] Mike: I know earlier when we were speaking, I felt like something, there was some something in there that was, she was actually genuinely curious about. And I. They didn't give it much attention to after you brought it up to when you told her to do education. Mm-hmm. And it reminded me like, yes, there was something special there that she said like she had something about it.

[01:39:07] She's like, I don't want, I wanna go back to that because I'm interested not to get the credit to finish my degree. Correct. That's what I'm saying. I actually like 

[01:39:13] Eldar: it's curiosity there. Yeah. And I 

[01:39:14] Mike: don't think that's just by accident. Yeah, I agree. And I do think that there's a very important thing there.

[01:39:18] Agree because, agree. Agree. Obviously psych psychology. Yes. People who want to study psychology is possibly is because she wants to get, and I think everybody wants to get on the stand. Yeah. By learning how the mind works and the same mind works, hopefully you can solve your own problems. Correct. Yeah.

[01:39:33] Ultimately end the day, so then 

[01:39:35] Katherine: that's it. 

[01:39:36] Mike: Yeah. You know, and I think that's great and I think that's awesome idea, you 

[01:39:39] Eldar: know? 

[01:39:40] Mike: Yeah. To continue education, so 

[01:39:42] Eldar: for sure. It's good. Either through sharing? Yeah. Or through your own journey of education, right? Or both. Or both. Yeah. Or both. Yeah. Doesn't have to stop, you know, 

[01:39:50] Mike: like, yeah, for sure.

[01:39:51] I watch podcasts. You watch podcasts. I listen to people de speak. I listen to X, whatever. Right? Yeah. All, you know, do a lot of different stuff, you know, pulling from different resources. Yeah. Because there's a lot to learn from a lot of different places You can. Yeah. Sometimes you hear something and your mind starts clicking and you learn about something about somebody else, and then you can relate it to your own story and you can unlock something by yourself.

[01:40:13] That's been correct. Caring. You've been caring for a long time. 

[01:40:16] Eldar: Yeah. All right, babe. Little bit of direction right there. So you're not going to Columbia, you're going back to school. Thank you guys. This was great. Yes.