194. Cure

Are you trying to cure the pain… or just escape it? 

What starts as a conversation about “getting better” turns into a brutal examination of ego, avoidance, emotional shortcuts, and the lies we tell ourselves in the name of self-improvement.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why most “healing” strategies quietly reinforce the very pain they claim to solve
• How the ego disguises avoidance as progress
• The psychological cost of bypassing discomfort instead of facing it
• Why chasing relief keeps people stuck longer than suffering ever does
• What it actually means to be cured — and why it scares people

The most insightful moment

At one point in the conversation, Eldar drops a line that completely reframes the idea of healing:

“If you’re trying to get rid of the pain, you’ve already decided it shouldn’t be there — and that’s exactly why it stays.”

That moment splits the episode wide open — and everything after it hits harder.

This episode is for you if:

• You’ve done the work but still feel stuck
• You’re exhausted from “fixing yourself”
• You suspect your self-improvement habits might be another form of control
• You want psychological peace, not just emotional relief

This isn’t motivational. It’s confrontational.

And it may force you to question whether the thing you call “healing” is actually keeping you sick.

🎧 Listen to the full, raw, unfiltered confessional now.
This conversation goes places most podcasts won’t — and it doesn’t offer comfort without cost.

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - we can even dissect it on our next episode. Submit your story using this form - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction: The Root of Our Suffering
• 5:04 Unhealthy Coping Mechanisms
• 12:54 The Impact of Past Decisions on Present Behavior
• 37:35 Realizations from Suffering
• 48:36 Curiosity and Knowledge
• 1:08:03 Parental Regrets and Reflections
• 1:19:40 Pain as a Teacher
• 1:28:20 Final Thoughts on Balance

Transcript

[00:00:00] Eldar: On this week's episode, is this the cause of all of our suffering? We constantly unalign ourselves because we have certain attachments to other things, and we build things like discipline around us that kind of forces us to become out of whack. 

[00:00:13] Katherine: Maybe you start becoming a victim and you start blaming the world, oh, the world is so tough on me.

[00:00:17] Why am I so unlucky? You know, it's never about taking the proper accountability because you don't even know how you got there. 

[00:00:25] Toliy: The biggest challenge that I think that people have when it comes to this is that like, when we step on the escalator and we're going the wrong way, it's, it's very obvious, very evident, right?

[00:00:33] Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:00:35] Katherine: Not always to us.

[00:00:43] Eldar: All right, guys. Tonight's topic by popular demand and the popular demand is totally, I guess it's, uh, revisiting the, you know, the concept of balance and, uh, how it's tied. Primarily to something very specific that we all suffer from as humans. And that's illnesses, sicknesses. Totally. Help us with it. What, what, what are some theories or what are some things, comments that you've made about not having balance in your life or having balance and that we're constantly going towards that balance?

[00:01:13] Uh, no matter how we try to unbalance ourselves. Yeah. We always find that center of gravity. 

[00:01:20] Toliy: Yeah. Well, well, I'm not sure if we always find it, but we're always trying, trying to find it. But I think we should probably first discuss like, well, you know, what do you, what do you mean by like, balance and what's actually happening?

[00:01:30] Because I think that there, there's something happening that probably, um, most people are not thinking about. 

[00:01:36] Eldar: Yeah. Why don't we put it in plain terms for those who are just chiming in or those who kind of maybe needed a little bit more guidance on some of these concepts that we discussed. Um, give some examples of some of the, some of the things I guess we all share as human beings when it comes to, uh, you know, balanced life or, or something that we all do that we.

[00:01:57] Universally enjoy ob objectively. 

[00:02:00] Toliy: Yeah. Well, well, 

[00:02:01] Eldar: not just subjectively, I think like 

[00:02:02] Toliy: the, the most like, easy and like plain planting thing to start with first is that like every day people like are awake. Right? And every day people sleep. Yes. Right. The reason that you need to sleep is because your, your body needs like rest and recovery mm-hmm.

[00:02:16] From what, what you were doing. So that's like a natural balancing out of that, right? Correct. You can't, like, exert a lot of energy, uh, work, you know, work out or like, you know, do whatever, and then not sleep. For example. If you don't sleep well, then you won't recoup that energy. You won't recover. And then eventually, like if you, if, if you continue to not sleep, you will, you know, you'll probably just die pretty, pretty soon, right?

[00:02:43] Mm-hmm. Um, so like you, you obviously need sleep to recover and to rest from exerting yourself. Mm-hmm. That's just like a natural. Thing that just like everyone does and, and that happens to balance yourself out. 

[00:02:57] Eldar: And that's obviously universal. Yeah. And we all know that, 

[00:03:00] Toliy: you know, when you don't get enough sleep and then you continue on to the next day.

[00:03:05] I think universally everyone feels like you feel different that day. Right. It's not like you feel the same exact way whether you sleep for seven hours or whether you only got two hours of sleep. That's right. That's like a monumental difference. Now, maybe if you're like a half an hour, an hour off, like 

[00:03:20] Eldar: that's okay.

[00:03:21] Toliy: It's okay. But if you're like 2, 3, 4 hours off 

[00:03:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:03:25] Toliy: Everyone knows what that feels like. You know, it's a, a huge difference. You feel like a zombie, you take a red eye flight without taking a red 

[00:03:32] Eldar: eye 

[00:03:32] Toliy: flight. Yeah. You know? So like that's a balancing out that it's happening without you really thinking about it, like you're experiencing that.

[00:03:39] But not many people are like, okay, like, hey, I need to go get rest so that I can balance out, for example. 

[00:03:44] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:03:46] Toliy: So that, like that, that's the most basic example of it. 

[00:03:49] Eldar: Yeah, that's a very good one I think. Yeah. I think everyone universally can relate Yeah. To this specific thing. Yeah. You don't sleep enough.

[00:03:56] You feel bad. Yeah. Right. Find that a human who is really operates on a different level than that. 

[00:04:02] Toliy: Yeah. Whether, whether you like it or not. If like, I guess like if you want to remain alive, your, your body's na natural desire will be for rest eventually. 

[00:04:12] Mike: Correct. 

[00:04:12] Toliy: You know, whether that's you staying up for a day or whether, what, whatever's going on, you're gonna eventually crash.

[00:04:16] 'cause you're gonna need the rest. That's like a, a gravitational pull towards like a human function. That, that it's happening. If you run for two hours straight without water, you're probably gonna sweat a lot and you're gonna exert a good amount of energy. The balancing act is that you will be thirsty as a result of it.

[00:04:35] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:36] Toliy: Right. Like you will, you will wanna drink water to rehydrate to balance out. 

[00:04:40] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:41] Toliy: If you don't, you probably will feel either like, you know, more sore, you'll feel very thirsty. You'll feel off, like you just won't feel good until you balance out. That's also like another example. Correct. And now there's a lot of these like sys systems going on that like, you just don't know Otis, but you're participating in it whether you like it or not.

[00:05:03] Okay. So give us some non so obvious ones, not so obvious ones. Well, for example, um, some people when they are very, I don't know, stressed out, they might turn to like, for example, like, uh, abusing like drugs or alcohol or food for example, they'll need some kind of dopamine hit, like their cortisol or whatever it's called is, um, out of whack.

[00:05:30] Mm-hmm. You know, um, they need something to, to balance out. They did some, they may maybe worked for like a 16 hour shift and now they need like, they now, now like, as like a result of that. And they had a lot of stress they need to balance out. So some people will turn to, for example, like. Eating very unhealthy foods or very, very, like, um, high sugar things, you know?

[00:05:53] Mm-hmm. Um, candy or ice cream or whatever. It's beer. Beer, yeah. Some people will drink, some people will do drugs. Some people will maybe smoke a lot of cigarettes, you know? Mm-hmm. So whatever it is, you will need things to balance yourself out. And then as a result of doing those things, this is where you pick up a lot of unhealthy habits and a lot of unhealthy lifestyle choices because your, your body, you're being needs to, to balance out one way or or, or another.

[00:06:26] It will find a way. Yeah. And if you're not smart enough to set your own schedule, you know, um, to like understand your own body, understand how a human is composed, and like understand like what you need to do to keep your own balance, um. Whatever you turn to, it will look for balance by itself. And that will be a gravitational pull that you don't even real realize that you're making those decisions, um, to do that.

[00:06:54] So wherever you're lacking, you will naturally, like be attracted to that penny. Hey, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, you'll, you'll, you'll naturally gravitate towards, um, that, um, your body has to overcompensate for something. 

[00:07:12] Eldar: Okay. Um, so what is the difference between knowing or controlling your own body or controlling your own urges and all this other stuff versus like a subconscious, uh, flow of just, it's just happening to you, you kind of can't control it?

[00:07:26] Toliy: Well, I, I think someone who's like really smart and I'm not, and like really, really, really smart, I'm saying in the sense of like, they, they like know how life works and they know like they know themselves and they know really well. What they need and what they don't need and what serves them and what doesn't serve them.

[00:07:44] I think they make con like, like, uh, conscious choices to, um, um, to like live within those, that that type of way that they can, you know, can feel good. 

[00:07:58] Mm. 

[00:07:58] Um, now I, now, now I also think that there's like another group of people that they kind of have some ideas as to what some healthy habits look like, but they don't implement them correctly, so they need to use things like, uh, discipline for example.

[00:08:12] Like, they know that, okay, like they set an intention that like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna run or exercise every single morning at 6:00 AM. Mm-hmm. Well, the night before they went to bed at 3:00 AM 

[00:08:23] Eldar: Hmm. Because something came up like a party. 

[00:08:27] Toliy: Well, they, yeah, they went out, whatever it is, because they have the 6:00 AM commitment.

[00:08:31] Instead of saying, Hey, like. I went to bed at three. This is like a choice that, that you made. Yeah. You're gonna sleep in and, and allow Yeah. Rest to happen. 'cause your body actually needs the rest, doesn't need the run. Uh, no longer because they're using discipline. They still need to get that run in. 

[00:08:48] Eldar: Okay.

[00:08:48] So why are they using discipline? Why do they need to implement discipline in order to continue that Which they set up for themselves or they, they, you know, they value 

[00:08:56] Toliy: because those people can only think through like rules and regulations and like workflows. Like they, they can, like, they're more like, um, robotic in their way of doing things.

[00:09:06] And they're, they're not like, um, you don't think in tune. 

[00:09:10] Eldar: You don't think it's, uh, one attachment, uh, one strong attachment is fighting another lesser attachment. 

[00:09:16] Toliy: Well, yeah. A lot. They, they, I mean like, it, it, it's an attachment to something, but it's like a rules and regulation. Like, it's like a, uh. They, um, well, at some point 

[00:09:26] Eldar: they, they've created a system for themselves as to say, I want to be disciplined for this and because of this.

[00:09:32] Correct. 

[00:09:32] Toliy: Well, they, they may have had a good intention like saying, Hey, like, running is good for you, or, I feel good when I run or running, keeps me in shape. Yeah. They, they may have that, but they have not, um, by, by, by just setting up those kinds of like rules and regulations, they turned off thinking so because they turned off thinking they utilized disciplines so that they don't have to think in those kinds of scenarios.

[00:09:55] But they 

[00:09:55] Eldar: also didn't think things through. Correct. 'cause they, they might have set up a system as to say, okay, need to, I didn't wanna 

[00:10:00] Toliy: uses discipline, does not 

[00:10:01] Eldar: think things through. Oh, that's a pretty serious, that's a serious 

[00:10:04] Mike: question here. Yeah. I mean, serious statement here. Okay. Um,

[00:10:12] Eldar: because if they did think it through right, they probably would say, okay, um, I would like to go run next morning. However, if it happens to be that I was invited to a party. Spontaneously and I attended, and if I overstayed my, you know, at this party till three in the morning and had X amount of drinks, I'm pretty sure that I'm not gonna be able to wake up at seven in the morning to go running.

[00:10:36] Therefore, I will be smart and not exercise discipline and not exercise the next morning. Right. I'm gonna stay in bed. 

[00:10:44] Mike: Who talks like that? No one. Right? 

[00:10:49] Toliy: Well, like if, if, if they actually understood, like if they actually knew themselves, they would be a smart individual and they would like 

[00:10:57] Eldar: implement those.

[00:10:58] So ultimately what it is, I think what you're talking about is that if you don't have self-love for yourself, you're not gonna be able to foresee certain things that you're gonna act stupidly towards yourself. Well, like, um, give, and therefore you're gonna Yeah. Apply pressure and pain upon yourself. 

[00:11:10] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:11:10] Like I, I can give you a very basic example. Generally I've been waking up like between like, I don't know, in the summer, as early as like 5:45 AM mm-hmm. To like, you know, winter, like anywhere from like. 6, 6 15. Mm-hmm. Six 30 max. Mm-hmm. You know, um, and I have like different alarms like set up and like, usually before I go to bed, like I'll set which one I want.

[00:11:35] Mm-hmm. You know, like, I, like you think 

[00:11:37] Eldar: you think it through? 

[00:11:38] Toliy: Well, yeah. Like for example, like I played basketball on Monday and Wednesday. I haven't been playing a long time. 

[00:11:43] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:44] Toliy: Um, when I played on Monday, the ne like that one I actually had for like six 30 I think it was. And I woke up and I feel like I got hit by a postal band.

[00:11:51] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:52] Toliy: Like, there was no chance of like, 

[00:11:54] Mike: doing anything. No. 

[00:11:54] Toliy: I needed like, at least an extra hour in bed. Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:11:57] Toliy: Now on Wednesday I played even more intense. It was full court. 

[00:12:00] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:01] Toliy: Wednesday, like my alarm was like at, like, I, I did, I think I did like 7 45 or something. 

[00:12:08] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:09] Toliy: Like there's no way I'm gonna wake up at 6:00 AM and Yeah.

[00:12:12] Do anything like mm-hmm. Even at 7 45 I felt like terrible. Yeah. So like I knew I needed more rest because like. I was going to bed a little bit late later 'cause I was playing at night, you know, so like my whole routine at night was pushed back. So if I don't push back then the morning routine. Yeah. Well then like, then you're stupid.

[00:12:31] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:12:32] Toliy: Then you're gonna say that you, you're just gonna go to bed like an hour and a half later 

[00:12:36] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:12:36] Toliy: And wake up the same way. Well that means that like, you're getting an hour and a half less of what you would typically get Yeah. As, as how you feel at that time. Yeah. So, you know, if I'm falling asleep at like 1130 or 11 and not like 10 or 10 30.

[00:12:50] Mm-hmm. Well then, I mean, it's a big difference. 

[00:12:54] Eldar: And what do you think this is a, a huge kind of detriment to your own health and your own wellbeing if you continue to kind of, you know, not see these patterns of your own bad behavior? A hundred percent. 

[00:13:05] Toliy: Like, yeah, ev everything starts from these kinds of things of like missing these kinds of things and like applying force to get some kind of thing.

[00:13:16] It's like a. Yeah, I guess like some people could call it like, hey, like this is the price to take, like the, the cost of sacrifice or like the cost of greatness, you know? Mm-hmm. Like you have to sacrifice. Yeah. Stuff like that. But yeah, I'm not sure like people who do that, that they actually feel good when they get those things.

[00:13:33] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:13:34] Toliy: I don't know if they can actually enjoy those things. 

[00:13:36] Eldar: Mm. Okay. 

[00:13:36] Toliy: Because the path they took to get there is not like, um, a sustainable one. It's not like one that they enjoyed. Yeah. And if, if you have to use those kind of words, like not see your family, like Yeah. 

[00:13:49] Eldar: Divorce your 

[00:13:49] Toliy: wife, divorce your wife, not see your kids, whatever it is, like, 

[00:13:53] Mike: yeah.

[00:13:54] Toliy: Yeah. I'm not sure if you're gonna be happy at that mountaintop 

[00:13:57] Mike: by yourself. Um, what do you guys think it's 

[00:14:02] Eldar: totally onto something or no? Is he saying anything? Is this the cause of all of our suffering? Not knowing our own balances, not knowing that there is where we've been pre, pre-programmed to be able to Right.

[00:14:14] Uh, have. A normalized function by having enough sleep, having enough water, having enough this or whatever, right? The basic stuff in order to be able to be properly functioning. But, but we constantly unalign ourselves because we have certain attachments to other things, and we build things like discipline around us that kind of forces us to do what, to become out of whack.

[00:14:37] So naturally, right? He's saying that, uh, after a long period, pro prolonged period of time, what is gonna happen? You're gonna start getting sick. You start gonna, you are gonna start getting more sluggish and not necessarily, you're gonna be able to tie it all back to just one of those, some of the decisions that you've been making throughout your whole life, uh, when you decided that I'm gonna be diligent about something.

[00:15:00] Or maybe you were diligent about something, but you actually applied too much pressure on yourself and then you became outta whack. What we talked about earlier too, before, remember we said, Hey, we want to rearrange certain things in the company. And like, oh, this is exciting. Oh, that is exciting. Oh, this, we can do that.

[00:15:17] We can do, and then obviously the big thing that I have, or a doubt, I'm like, okay, cool, you move this, but how will it affect all these other dominoes that are in place right now? Right. And we quickly find out that like, oh, if we do this, we, this can get messed up. This, this can get messed up. You can see how all those efforts can just go to shit.

[00:15:34] You know, even though we had a good idea, maybe we had a good intention. Like that person who said, I'm gonna wake up at six in the morning, go running. You know, that intention is nice. Oh, it's good for you. You know, but they didn't see the, the, the pieces that are gonna be affected, you know, um, if they stayed over and partied, for example.

[00:15:53] Or if we, we gave somebody more that they can handle and stuff, you know? And next thing you know, this stuff starts crumbling. Crumbling. And we don't know this because we're not closely paying attention to ourselves, right? To our own system, our own body, our own pains and aches. What do we like, what do we don't like?

[00:16:12] And we started disrespecting ourselves, ultimately displaying lack of self-love. But we're trying to just upkeep these little ideologies that's been installed in us that's been unchecked for a long period of time. And then we start developing illnesses, depression, right. Fatigue. And we're like, what the fuck is wrong with me?

[00:16:35] I don't even know what's going on with me. Doc. You know, you could, like, you don't know where to start, you know? Is this it? Yeah. Is this, is this the answer to all illnesses? 

[00:16:46] Toliy: Well, this right here, the thing is that all of these little things lead to wrong impressions of how things work. Correct. And long and wrong impressions are the most dangerous correct thing that you, that like you could be on because, well, why?

[00:16:59] They don't have 

[00:17:00] Eldar: to be dangerous. They're gonna teach you a damn lesson. Well, it just is gonna be at a price point. And the price point usually is pain. 

[00:17:06] Mike: Yeah.

[00:17:09] Eldar: You can say that, of course it's part of life, but, uh, why do we think then 

[00:17:15] Toliy: it's an optional part of life 

[00:17:18] Eldar: when you begin to think, when you start raising awareness to yourself, that you have awareness, that you are aware 

[00:17:24] Toliy: the, the, the, uh, that kind of level of like, when you're really on a wrong impression and however long like that might be for life.

[00:17:30] Like that, that, yeah, that's just like an optional, like the, the, uh, the issue with it, not optional. Once 

[00:17:37] Katherine: you have the awareness of it. 

[00:17:38] Toliy: Right. Well, well, no, I'm saying the opposite, that like, it's an optional, like suffering, but the thing is that, um, what does like the, uh, the thing that you're not aware of is that balance pull.

[00:17:51] So, um, 

[00:17:54] like, um.

[00:17:59] It's optional to suffer in those kinds of ways, but what you don't see is like what led you there and what led you there Is these like little systems of, of, of balances that you've been disrespecting and not paying attention to that have now, now like, led you down a different path. 

[00:18:18] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:18] Toliy: You know? Um, and part of this offering is that like no matter how much you pull that way, the, the balance of life of like how a human is constructed will always pull you the opposite way.

[00:18:29] Mm-hmm. And that tension is the suffering, but you don't see it as an as, as to like why it actually happened. But I think, which I don't know if it's possible, if you can accept that there is like a balances like system that like no matter, like what you want or how you feel like. By default, your, your, um, your body and like your mind wants to balance out in a particular way, if you like, accept that.

[00:18:58] And I think that you can more, um, carefully observe all of your choices, functions, and all of your yeah, functions and like decisions. But most people don't. They just have this invisible, like, almost like enemy that's like against them. But that invisible enemy is almost like the balancing system that's like pulling them away while their desires and their understanding of life is pulling 'em the opposite way.

[00:19:22] And that like, friction act like, like it's actually funny. It creates energy, right? It creates war. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a static. Yeah, it's like a forever static. Um, and like your whole life is designed around this. Now. Your whole life is designed between this like pull and tug, like kind of kind of like pull and push like life where you're constantly like.

[00:19:44] Wanting things, but then getting like, you know, drawn in different directions. Mm-hmm. And then like, you're just all over the place. You're just all, all over the place, but you don't 

[00:19:50] Eldar: have 

[00:19:50] Toliy: a 

[00:19:50] Eldar: desire to say, you know what, like, you don't just usually wake up and say, you know what? I'd really like to figure out what is the perfect amount of sleep that I have that I need in order to feel a certain type of way.

[00:20:01] You know, like, you, you like that's a system that just kind of like automatic on autopilot and you kind of hit it. Sometimes you don't hit it, sometimes you hit the mark, you miss the mark, you know, you just kind of go about your day and kinda like, oh, it is what it is. Mm-hmm. Right. And you start to develop that, like the attitude even Tara has, where it's like, that's just part of life.

[00:20:18] Like, there's nothing you could do about it, you know? Yeah. When I presented the topic and said that we, we are about to solve the, the mystery of illnesses and we're about to solve all the illnesses and stuff and diseases. That's not possible. You know why? Because the germophobes couldn't do it, you know?

[00:20:33] You know, it's like, that's funny. A hard impression that like the Germo folks, like are the ones that are onto this thing and they're trying their best not to get sick or whatever. 

[00:20:41] Katherine: Yeah. But 

[00:20:42] Eldar: it's a complete, like, that doesn't 

[00:20:43] Katherine: make them actually like Yeah. 

[00:20:44] Eldar: Correct. It doesn't make, being a germophobe is being sick.

[00:20:47] Yeah. 

[00:20:47] Katherine: Yeah. That's a different kind of sickness. Yeah. 

[00:20:49] Eldar: You know, 

[00:20:49] Katherine: but that one's in your mind where 

[00:20:50] Eldar: we're trying to figure out that like, this is like a, um, a universal meta, it's a metaphysical dilemma here that, uh, there's a system in place that we are actually part of our body, our mind is part of that. We don't actually understand.

[00:21:05] That's, we're totally saying that because we don't understand it. We have the fight between what our ego wants maybe, or what our pride or whatever it is, attaches ourselves to versus what, let's just say God intended it mm-hmm. Intended us to feel 

[00:21:18] Toliy: Yeah. I think that like, if, if we all that, like if our life was permanently depicted as a, like we're, we're going up like the escalators going down.

[00:21:27] We're just going up the escalator. Yeah. And the more bad decisions that you make, the faster it goes. Yeah. But you're still going up and it's going faster and faster. Down down. Yeah. That's like actually what's happening, but people don't believe it or see it. Yeah, they don't, that's the issue. They know that, 

[00:21:40] Eldar: that this actually is happening right now.

[00:21:41] Yeah. 

[00:21:42] Toliy: But right now, if you walk in the wrong escalator, like you right away know it. Right? Yeah. Yeah. You're like, oh shit, I went the wrong way. You're probably 

[00:21:48] Katherine: more, more embarrassed to like, look like a fool. What's that guy doing? 

[00:21:51] Toliy: And, and, and lots of times actually part of like philosophical and just like logical realizations is that that's how you feel.

[00:21:58] You feel like you. Been on the wrong escalator. Right? Yeah. Like you, you, you feel like a fool a bit. Right? 'cause the once impression, once you realize the, you 

[00:22:04] Eldar: finally realize that you were under the wrong impression. 

[00:22:06] Toliy: Yes. Which makes you feel a bit like a fool. It can make you angry, it can make you feel like a fool, whatever it is.

[00:22:11] Right? 

[00:22:11] Eldar: Well, what makes, well, who, who's actually experiencing the foolishness? Right. It's very interesting because then like if you feeling some, some sort of shame, guilt, right. That's a ego. 

[00:22:22] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:22:22] Eldar: Right? Because ultimately, like if you came across the truth now and you finally understood that you were going the wrong way, you should feel good.

[00:22:28] No. Yeah. But you don't, 

[00:22:29] Toliy: that's No, but that's afterwards. That's afterwards. Yeah. At, at first you're like, what the fuck? First somebody's gotta pay for it. Well, yeah. Like, no one likes like, yeah. If, if, if I like for, for example, like oftentimes when you drive home Yeah. You, you get stuck in traffic, right? Yeah.

[00:22:42] What if you've been doing that for like 10 years and you just found out, found out randomly that I actually never go in traffic and we go at the same time and we live in the same area. Yeah. 

[00:22:50] Eldar: And you go a different route and like, oh, 

[00:22:51] Toliy: like, yeah. If you actually just made a right where you make a left. Yeah.

[00:22:54] That rate's actually five minutes to your house, no traffic guaranteed. Like how would you feel? Yeah. Like an idiot. You'd feel like an idiot. Yeah. So that, that, that's the first realization. Mm-hmm. But then eventually you're like, oh, great, now I can go right now, I can enjoy now you, yeah. Right. So like, yeah, I think the natural progression is to first feel bad, but you could feel, 

[00:23:10] Eldar: you know, but I think it's, it's natural because of the fact that ego has attached itself to a very specific perception.

[00:23:18] Toliy: Well, yes. When the e like the, the, and then it prove it wrong. Doesn't like it. Yeah. The eagle obviously doesn't like it when it's proved wrong at first. Yeah. But then it has to kind of like, like it because its new reality is like better, but at first it needs to be like, what the fuck? 

[00:23:32] Eldar: But the, the thing is, um.

[00:23:35] I'm not sure if the ego, ego is the, is the thing that experiences the new reality or enjoys it. I think that the, the person who's actually humble and new identity for that moment is enjoying that part. The system. Yeah. But, but I'm saying the balance system Yeah. Is actually who's enjoying it because you finally introduced the truth of the matter or reality.

[00:23:54] And the only thing that can enjoy the truth and reality for what it is, is the thing that is closest to God. Yeah. Which is the true essence. But that's what 

[00:24:00] Toliy: observed that, that that's like once you haven't observed reality that you're a part of before that, when you're kind of like, oh shit. Like, yeah, this place is great.

[00:24:09] Right? Yeah. Maybe then you still have that anger or that like, um, thing, thing yet, but once you observe yourself in it, you validated it like, you know you're on the right path, you know you're in way better place. You feel it, you see it. That's when you feel, I think like that kind of way when you can observe yourself.

[00:24:25] In that new reality, like it's undeniably good. 

[00:24:28] Eldar: Well, the reason why you canor, uh, observe yourself in that new reality in the first place is because you finally created a small gap between your ego, your wrong perceptions and actual the observer, or that which is actually true and real, which is objective truth.

[00:24:41] Toliy: Well, yeah, yeah. Because you're observer of the objective truth. Reality was a high friction one. Yes. You know, and, and like 

[00:24:48] Mike: yeah, 

[00:24:49] Toliy: the realization first off that you were living in a high friction reality when there's a low friction or no friction reality right there. Yeah. Um, yeah, there's probably a bit of like disappointment at times.

[00:25:00] Anger, like, can I say 

[00:25:02] Katherine: as a question, would you guys say, like what you guys are saying, would you say that it is the past that is kind of, um, contributing to these, these screw ups, let's say these things that are keeping you from, you know, the truth or like that, that better side of yourself. Versus letting go of that past with, you know, the, maybe like the mental schemas that you've built and then actually looking forward, kind of falling in love, like, let's say with that future self of yours that wants to be better, wake up better, sleep better or whatever, and letting go of like, almost like that, that self that, um, 

[00:25:47] Eldar: that was incorrect.

[00:25:48] Katherine: That is keeping you from that. So, no, 

[00:25:52] Eldar: it, it's an interesting word when you use the word in the past, you know? 

[00:25:56] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:57] Eldar: I'm not sure if you, if you look at, if you start looking at it, um, um, your own reality and like. Past, present, and future. Mm-hmm. I think it's very, it's very difficult to get a grasp on anything.

[00:26:09] I personally think that 

[00:26:10] Katherine: I'm just, I, I'm thinking that, but yes, I do think 

[00:26:12] Eldar: that your past things definitely affect your current part 

[00:26:15] Katherine: of like, maybe it's fear, anxiety or whatever, you know? Yeah. You know, whatever is affecting, affecting your future right now. Like, not your future, your present moment. Right.

[00:26:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:26:23] Katherine: That usually has to do with like a link to past experiences. Sure. You know, and then you make a, then you make a kind of like a very definitive, like, oh, okay, that, that didn't work out for me that one time that's bad or that's negative, you know? 

[00:26:36] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Um, 

[00:26:37] Katherine: and I think that's sometimes carrying all these little things, this little backpack full of, you know, your past experiences sometimes can keep you from, from, from, you know, maybe just, I don't know, seeing, seeing things for what they are and things.

[00:26:54] Things for what they're future and then you future, it affects your future, you know, future. 

[00:26:57] Toliy: Yeah, definitely. But I think it's also o of oftentimes it's like, like lot lots of things that we're doing are like. Um, past choices and like decisions that were made that are not like reexamined in today's time.

[00:27:12] Like, um, like just, it's like if, if, if you take your day and you just think about ev, ev, ev, everything that you do, just like take like Monday through Friday, right from the moment you wake up to when you go to bed that whole time, all the different things that, that you do and how you do them. When was the last time that you took every little thing and, and like thought about it like, okay, like how do I engage?

[00:27:39] Like how do I engage in this? Do I like doing this? Like, when was the last time you made that decision to like, to do that thing? What was it 10 years ago, 20 years ago, six months ago, right? So lot, lots of times you're still operating on like a decision that you maybe made 20 years ago as to like how you look at something or how you do something and you still do it now.

[00:28:00] So I think 

[00:28:01] Katherine: that's what I was trying to say. Yeah. With like the past, the past is still almost like your present, you know, you're still attached to some, some, yeah. It's just a present. Some 

[00:28:11] Eldar: It's just a present. 

[00:28:11] Toliy: Yeah. It's, 

[00:28:12] Eldar: it is not even a past, like this is who you are. Yes. Your, your present Sure. Has solidified your current self.

[00:28:20] You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. All those things that you've thought about, experienced, thought about, experienced, traumatized over, or whatever it is mm-hmm. Is now the culmination of definition who you are right now, the personality, 

[00:28:29] Katherine: basically. Current 

[00:28:30] Eldar: moment. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. But, but you also have the same opportunity to be able to change that.

[00:28:35] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:28:36] Eldar: Going forward, obviously. Right. And challenge that present moment, but in 

[00:28:39] Katherine: order to have maybe perhaps that future that you desire mm-hmm. You kind of have to, yeah. You gotta let go of, of, of that personality. Like Yes. But in order personality, that what I totally 

[00:28:49] Eldar: changed. Yeah. That's why I totally said, when's the last time you do the audit?

[00:28:52] Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:53] Do you do the audit of this stuff? How often do you do it? When was the last time you did it? How do you know that you actually write about that, what you're doing? Yeah. 

[00:29:02] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:29:02] Eldar: It's like, like, I don't know, to give you the example, you know, Don. No, I mean, I 

[00:29:06] Katherine: understand what you're saying. You 

[00:29:07] Eldar: know, so how sometimes you, what's his name, uh, you like to reorganize shit.

[00:29:10] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:29:10] Eldar: And then you create a new system in your head, like, oh, I want this here, I want the plates here. I want the plate because the flow, whatever. It's that thing Right. Where you start removing things, moving things. Yeah. Making things for yourself a little bit better, 

[00:29:22] Katherine: more functional, 

[00:29:23] Eldar: more functional. Yeah.

[00:29:24] Right. How often do you do that on most of the things that you do, or like throughout the day? Right. Not very often. You know, 

[00:29:32] Toliy: it, it's, yeah. It's also like significantly easier to like reorganize like your plate and it to reorganize your mind and your habits. 

[00:29:39] Eldar: Yes. For, you know, for sure the way you react to this with the way you react to 

[00:29:42] Toliy: that.

[00:29:42] Yes. You know? Yeah. Like, yeah. And, and there's like some like basic, like hu like humanity defaults, right? Like Yeah. Like ju ju just, just to give like the most like, like simplest example ever, like at one point, right? If there was like a thousand mile destination. People like, you know, they would have to walk it rather than like camp and wait and like, you know.

[00:30:01] Yeah. And continue to walk it, but you would still have to go that thousand miles if you needed to. 

[00:30:05] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:30:06] Toliy: Then it was like, okay, we can ride a horse, right? Yeah. And we can, it'll, it'll be faster. We don't have to do the work. Yeah. That was still a thing. Right? But it's not like right now, if you were to do that, now you have a car.

[00:30:16] Well, okay. Like, that's an option. Okay. Well then there's also like a train. There's also like a, a plane. A plane, right? Like, there's like different means of doing things We don't think about that we're gonna walk to, like, to California, right? Mm-hmm. Like if, if you were to think to go there, you already have it in your, but some people did.

[00:30:32] Yeah. But, but, but some people rush may, may, maybe back in the day. Right. But now, like, if you already have like preset defaults as to like, what's, like, what's your way of thinking and what's your way of like doing something? Yeah. So like pe like with, with the new technology out, you don't think about the old like stuff because you've already like.

[00:30:53] Establish this as like a norm. 

[00:30:54] Eldar: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mike sent an article, remember about, um, in the workplace, uh, somebody who've observed, you know, people that are working staff that they do cooler talk. They just say nonsense. They don't really talk, and they just like, 

[00:31:08] Katherine: oh, the study. Like in what? Sweden or something?

[00:31:10] Yeah. 

[00:31:10] Eldar: Right. 

[00:31:11] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:31:12] Eldar: And they, and they were, I 

[00:31:12] Katherine: thought it was so interesting. It's interesting. I can relate to it. 

[00:31:14] Eldar: Yeah. Right. Where like people would just fill the air with stuff to talk about. Like that is just irrelevant, right? All the weather. Oh, the wind. Oh, can you believe the snow is coming? Oh, yeah. The roads are gonna be crazy.

[00:31:26] Like, what the fuck? You know what I mean? And I agree with this. I agree with, I've been known this shit. Absolutely. Yeah. This is like, especially 

[00:31:31] Katherine: in, in big companies, like 

[00:31:33] Eldar: 100%. You 

[00:31:34] Katherine: know, I definitely, I, I got used to get depleted like that because eventually, like you're like, okay, I, I seen like a 10th person today.

[00:31:42] How many times can I say, Hey, how are you? That's right. You know, like the same thing. This is where 

[00:31:45] Eldar: we're trying to get to. Yes, exactly That. I'm just making that example because Mike just brought it up and it's relevant. Yeah. Is that like all this stuff. Is taking space in our heads. 

[00:31:54] Katherine: Yes. 

[00:31:55] Eldar: Right. I mean, obviously I try to come in when like we talk about this nonsense or whatever, throwing a different curve ball into this mix in order for the person to get like stunned like, oh wait, they said it like that.

[00:32:05] Because I know this normal regular programming that people are on there and I like to shake that up because to me, first of all, to me it's not interesting to talk about the damn weather every single day. You know what I mean? 

[00:32:15] Katherine: Yeah. But 

[00:32:15] Eldar: it's interesting to maybe throw some, a curve ball in there to see how somebody else reacts or whatever, but Yeah.

[00:32:20] Especially 

[00:32:20] Katherine: because it's not something you can control. 

[00:32:21] Eldar: Correct. Because if I get into it, 'cause I get, if I get into this kind of conversation, I know how it drains me. I know it because I don't like it. Right. Obviously now the studies are showing that people don't like it either. Mm-hmm. That they get drained by it because like you said, it's draining in a big company should have to have the same conversation over and over.

[00:32:39] It's crazy. What did you see on the news? Oh yeah. Did you hear about this? Did you hear about that? What they said? Shit, like it's just becomes crazy. 

[00:32:45] Toliy: Yeah. But like how did that, like what's the root of that? And like how did, how did that like, like happen? Like the whole thing about work. It's never to mix personal, for example, and work in business.

[00:32:53] Yeah. That was like, like the whole thing. Is that like it's impossible. You need to come in like in like an iron dome. Yeah. Like you have no mental health, you have no nothing Outside work is work. 

[00:33:02] Yeah. 

[00:33:02] Personal is per personal. That's it. Yeah. So that's why people are like, okay, well like can't talk about personal, so let's talk about the weather.

[00:33:10] Yeah. The weather, like mm-hmm. Sports like, hey, this like lunch, right? Mm-hmm. Like, yeah. Like you have to talk about things that have, that are like kind of just like surface level. Mm-hmm. To make sure that, because like doing that is not allowed and that was correct for hundreds of years. Very much like a, like the norm beaten into people that, that like, this is how you have to do, 

[00:33:32] Katherine: right.

[00:33:32] Yeah. I can I, can I pause you one second? Um, back when I used to work in a law firm, I connected, like with one of the attorneys. Um, he had, uh, a doodle actually who was very sick all the time. He had like Lyme disease or something like 

[00:33:44] Eldar: this one. 

[00:33:45] Katherine: Yeah. And, and you know what? One time we connected, like he never had conversations with me.

[00:33:51] We had one conversation. Ever since that conversation, when he would see me, he would say, Hey, how's the bell ringer? You know who that is? 

[00:33:59] Toliy: Oh, who? Uh, oh, arch. Arch. Yeah. 

[00:34:01] Katherine: Yeah. He would ask me like, I, I had one conversation with him about like training him and then that's it, you know, and that becomes something that we're connected by.

[00:34:11] Mm-hmm. You know, so when you see that person, I think that also. Getting out of your desk and like going for a breather, like walking to the cooler also becomes something that you need to, like de-stress, for example. Yeah. Uh, you know, if you're a person reading hundreds and hundreds of pages, like worth of documents, so like there's validity to like wanting to connect with someone during like, your office, you know, during your work schedule.

[00:34:34] But then if it's like too much, then it becomes like, uh, overwhelming. 

[00:34:37] Toliy: Yeah. Like how many people from like 1960, let's just say to 1990 that were in like the, uh, the forward manufacturing plant in Detroit, Michigan. How many of them called out because they were, had mental stress or like they were mentally in a bad place?

[00:34:54] How many people called out a work? Yeah. Probably not a lot. Probably not a lot. Yeah, there was no, what, what are you talking about? Yeah, like your mental, what? Yeah, go work and get, get shut it. Done. Shut. Yeah, shut. Yeah. Get it done. That was like the whole, a attitude for a long time. And then it became more of like, now it's like if you, if like your worker says like, Hey, I'm not good mentally or something, if you like, deny them to go home or like, it's over for you.

[00:35:19] Yeah. Like now that's like a crazy, like crime. Oh yeah. Forget crime. A 

[00:35:22] Katherine: lawsuit or something. Yeah. 

[00:35:24] Toliy: Yeah. You know? Okay. So like a mental day. Yeah. Now, yeah, now it's like the complete opposite. Now it's like, you know. Yeah. Like, you, you try to give people like, I don't know, like benefits or like different things so that there are in a, a better mental place or like Yeah, yeah.

[00:35:38] Like that's like very much promoted now. Yeah. 

[00:35:41] Katherine: Yeah. We have a So see awareness 

[00:35:42] Toliy: that that's a huge, a attitude like shift. Shift. 

[00:35:45] Eldar: Yeah. Well, it's what you start to value. Yeah. Right. So I, I guess there's progress. Yeah. I mean, maybe we take it overboard. Yeah. That's with all the different, uh, PC shit that's going on also.

[00:35:56] Like, it's just overboard. But, but what saying? But we're trying to find that balance, 

[00:35:59] Katherine: saying that like, even though we have, you know, new, a aware, like newfound awareness for mental health and things like that, we also are living in like times of burnout. People, people are still pretty burnt out. Still in, in terms of like, I guess like modern day society of like overworking, um, yeah.

[00:36:15] Yeah. I would say that people also EE equally are pretty burnt out. 

[00:36:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:36:20] Katherine: You know, 

[00:36:21] Eldar: but I think, I still think that it's, you know, it's how it's supposed to be until people figure it out, you know, and become a little bit smarter about their own process. Right. Uh, up until then it's kinda like, you know, like terror lives out.

[00:36:33] The fact that like, it's how it's supposed to be. Like I, I unburdened the candle from both sides of the end and like, it is what it is, you know, like 

[00:36:41] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:36:41] Eldar: Um, until it becomes a painful enough where this is what we talked about too. Well, that you 

[00:36:47] Katherine: actually wanna change, you wanna change something. Well, the 

[00:36:49] Eldar: thing is, yeah, you wanna change or you have no choice but to change, because if you don't, change is 

[00:36:53] Katherine: painful.

[00:36:54] Eldar: Well, yes, 

[00:36:55] Katherine: it's tough. So 

[00:36:56] Eldar: yes. To, to someone who's, it's easier not to change someone. Yes. So someone who needs that kind of, uh, effect in their lives, some change can be almost deadly. Or deadly. Of course. Right. Where like, you know, I mean, we heard, uh, our neighbor who lost her husband to aneurysm Mm. Right.

[00:37:13] Katherine: Brain aneurysm. Yeah. Oh, well, 

[00:37:14] Eldar: he was 46 or 44, whatever. He was young. 

[00:37:17] Katherine: He was that young. She was 

[00:37:18] Eldar: very young. 

[00:37:19] Katherine: Wow. You 

[00:37:19] Eldar: know, and the first time I saw her, she's like tearing, crying, and she's like, what the fuck is wrong with us? Why do we work so much? I haven't been on vacation in like 10 years. 

[00:37:27] Katherine: Yeah. All we did was work and pay 

[00:37:29] Eldar: bills.

[00:37:29] All we did was work and pay bills and like that's all we cared about and all this stuff. She's like my son, me and him. Like, what the fuck? Right. Like sometimes these types of things do happen in order for you to finally like, oh shit. Like yeah, maybe I got it all wrong. 

[00:37:42] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. It's a kind And 

[00:37:44] Eldar: everyone has that threshold.

[00:37:46] Yeah. Right. Somebody can bum their foot and realize it, but somebody might need to go through cancer in order to realize it. Some, I mean, Steve Jobs wrote on his last letter like, yo, what the fuck was wrong with me? I kind of missed out on life. 

[00:37:57] Yeah. Like 

[00:37:58] he needed to die. Right. Or have cancer in order to come to that realization.

[00:38:02] Maybe next life he'll be able to figure it out, but like, yeah, he missed out. 

[00:38:06] Toliy: But, but, but I think that like the biggest challenge that I think that people have when it comes to this is that like. We step on the escalator and we're going the wrong way. It's, it's very obvious, very evident, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:38:17] Yeah. 

[00:38:18] Katherine: Not always to us. Yeah. Well, not always. Not always to the one No. In the physical world, right? No. In 

[00:38:22] Toliy: the physical world, if you're at a department store, you're gonna obviously know like this. Mm-hmm. You're gonna feel it, right. You're gonna 

[00:38:28] Katherine: see it. And 

[00:38:28] Toliy: everyone that's really obvious. But I think that people have a really difficult time taking, um, mental problems or like things that, that that's in their head and bringing it out into the physical realm mm-hmm.

[00:38:41] So that they can like, think about it and understand it, and. See it like that to me is like the biggest challenge because like, if, if, if we wanna say that this hurts, suffering is like a fight between like we're, we're fighting our egos, we're fighting our, our arrogance. We're, we're yeah, we're fighting something that I guess like it's, it is physically invisible.

[00:39:02] So because it's physically invisible, it's really, it's really easy to, but it doesn't it mean that it's not seen ankle, right? Like you have no like no, 

[00:39:09] Eldar: no, no. Hide 

[00:39:10] you, you could try, right? You can try. But if you are around individuals who are actually paying attention and give you the time to listen to you and to hear you out, they'll figure it out.

[00:39:19] Toliy: No, but forget about that. I'm saying that like people for themselves, they're fighting a battle against an invisible en an enemy that they can't bring out into a physical world to have a physical convers conversation about it. But they, 

[00:39:33] Eldar: over, over a period of time, they will, well over a period and they're gonna say, 

[00:39:35] Toliy: ouch.

[00:39:36] No, my mind hurts. No, I'm not saying that those people don't suffer. So tho those people still suffer. They just don't know. How and why they're suffering. Sure. But they still feel pain from it, but, well, they just 

[00:39:46] Eldar: have a difficult time to, to connecting the dots and how they got there. 

[00:39:51] Toliy: Mm-hmm. But yeah. But that, that's the point is that, but when you have a sprained ankle, you just, okay, you just need to like lay down.

[00:39:57] You need to ice it. Maybe you need to maybe like do something else. Yeah. It is so obvious. But any of these, there are things, they're very much not black and white. So that, like, to me, the hardest part is bringing that invisible thing into something that visible mm-hmm. That is visible, that you can actually like, see and feel.

[00:40:16] Because once you can see and feel it, you can actually address it. Yeah. But until then, yeah. It's like, what do you, what do you do? How do you, how do you like, yeah. You know, how do you fight someone that's invisible? 

[00:40:28] Katherine: So, so many of us don't grow up with like, uh, access to those tools, you know, proper communication, uh, knowing how to explore your emotions or express them.

[00:40:40] Let alone parents that are actually there to like, hear and see you. So, you know, if you grow up in a household where that's not common knowledge 

[00:40:48] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:40:49] Katherine: Then, you know, you don't, you don't know these things, you know? Yeah. And also when you're not in this environment where we talk and stuff like that, you know, we're always talking about these kind of things.

[00:40:59] So, you know, actually recognizing, recognizing that you need change or that you have all your stuff upside down is, it's not as easy as, as it sounds like, that realization, that moment. Oh no, it's, you know's, 

[00:41:14] Toliy: it's very hard. It's, it's, it's like in click. Do you remember when like the, the manager tells them that like he's giving the raise or the, the promotion to like the other guy and he, and he presses pauses and then he just starts punching him in the face and then the guy's like, my face hurts.

[00:41:27] You know, like, but he didn't know, like Yeah, yeah. What it was from. Yeah. That's literally what happens. Yeah. Yeah. Like you, you're just suffering and you're just like. Oh, it's from that you're just upset. Oh, it's from that? Yeah. Oh, it's from that. And, and 

[00:41:37] Katherine: because you don't know how to properly understand it.

[00:41:40] Yeah. You start, you know, maybe, maybe you start becoming a victim and you start blaming the world. Oh, the world is so tough on me. Oh, nothing ever goes my way. Why am I so unlucky? You know? It's never about like taking the proper accountability because you don't even know how you got there, 

[00:41:56] Toliy: you know? Yeah.

[00:41:56] Yeah. And then what happens? You still need some kind of rebalancing if you're in pain. Yeah. Okay. Maybe some people start like, overeating shop. No, well, well, shopping. Yeah. But like, for example, shopping, shopping, putting on nice clothing, 

[00:42:08] Katherine: alcohol, making themselves 

[00:42:09] Toliy: feel good from putting on that like sweater or those shoes.

[00:42:12] Yeah. But what does that also do now that creates like a different imbalance that, that, that, that you sign up for where maybe like, you're becoming debt. Debt, huh? 

[00:42:21] Eldar: You become debt? 

[00:42:22] Toliy: Well in debt, but like, what? What's that? Um. What, what's that called? That, that word? Um, K clo mania. No, when you start stealing the clothes, it's like, uh, oh.

[00:42:31] In, in insecure now unless insecure, unless you're wearing the top shit. 

[00:42:34] Mike: Yeah, 

[00:42:34] Toliy: you don't feel good. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So now like you get that because one day or some time ago maybe that clothing made you feel good when you're not feeling good or Yeah, like eat eating. You start eating high sugar food, oily food, fast food, things like that.

[00:42:48] Because you that well, then now you get other health. Like a, like a, but yeah, is, is issues where that actual thing that happened, you have no idea what actual happened, but you still need a, a balancing, which is why people turn to all of these things that then Yes. Then they lead to dis all kinds of physical, mental diseases in to the, 

[00:43:09] Eldar: to, to where it all leads to one place.

[00:43:13] Enough pain for you to slow down. Yes or no. Yeah. So disease is actually a very good thing. For an arrogant or egotistical and prideful mind. 

[00:43:27] Mike: Yes or no. 

[00:43:30] Toliy: It's 

[00:43:30] bad. Ouch. Why? Why? Ouch. No, I'm just saying that like it's, it's just like, what the fuck? You know, like, yeah. 

[00:43:36] Eldar: But it's like, isn't that like the answer?

[00:43:38] Yeah, but this why, what the fuck? And why is that bad if the system created perfectly? 

[00:43:43] Katherine: It's so tough. You shitty. It shouldn't, it shouldn't be the answer, but it's, it's very tough. But it shouldn't be. 

[00:43:48] Eldar: But, well, why? 

[00:43:50] Toliy: It shouldn't be because 

[00:43:50] Eldar: like No, it should be, but if you only knew, knew it's the, but it's the, yeah.

[00:43:54] Look, there's different frequencies, right? Yeah. Like we can blow a whistle right now that me and you won't hear, but but the dogs will hear it. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same thing. Everyone has their own frequency. 

[00:44:05] Katherine: Do you see them? Actually, 

[00:44:06] Eldar: you know, everyone has their own frequency and that frequency of pain is the, is the threshold that you need to find.

[00:44:12] And God or whoever created this has embodied this, like you said, internally in us. How much pain do you actually need in order to be, to start listening? 

[00:44:22] Toliy: Yeah. But see, it's like you don't know that this is what's playing out. 

[00:44:27] Katherine: And I think up until 

[00:44:27] Toliy: you do, I 

[00:44:28] Katherine: think that most of us can take a lot of that. But until, yeah, up until you do.

[00:44:30] Yeah. 

[00:44:31] Toliy: But you, we usually, when you do, is when like the gig is up, you know? And like, it's like, but the gig is up for, for who? For you, 

[00:44:38] Eldar: for you. 

[00:44:38] Toliy: But who's you? You the ego? No. You just might be dead. No. The criminal. Well, good. No. Well, yeah, but I'm saying is that like, you don't know what you're up against. 

[00:44:51] Eldar: You get put, but, but if you don't know what you're up against, and if you have no clue, that means you lived a very arrogant, bad life.

[00:44:57] Yeah, but I'm, but, 

[00:44:57] Toliy: but like, I don't know if that's your fault. 

[00:45:00] Eldar: Oh, well, who, who is it? Who is that? To blame? Well, what you mean you not, not your fault. 

[00:45:06] Toliy: Well, whoever fucking raised you and taught you, they fucking told you the wrong shit. 

[00:45:10] Eldar: Oh, so you wanna blame it to the parents or the, the teachers, whatever it is.

[00:45:14] Katherine: I think there's, there's a partial blame definitely that goes to, to, to the people that are you, I'm not sure. I'm 

[00:45:19] Eldar: not sure. 

[00:45:20] Katherine: And taught you about the world and taught you how to not act. Or not act or, I think there's a huges huge there. Mm-hmm. Now, now I think change is entirely on us and realizing where we went wrong, I think they 

[00:45:33] Eldar: definitely contribute to our nonsense, 

[00:45:34] Katherine: but they absolutely contributed a hundred percent.

[00:45:36] We inherit so much of them a 

[00:45:38] Toliy: hundred percent 

[00:45:39] Katherine: just by watching them. Yes. And you know, yes. You know, you 

[00:45:41] Toliy: only are responsible once you know. 

[00:45:43] Katherine: Yeah, yeah. And then, and then you have the, you, you, you're, now, you can make that choice, so if never get to the point so you or you change, so can you live, can you live a full life that's on you?

[00:45:54] Eldar: Can you live a full life without actually getting to that point? What, what do you mean by a full life? Like a, like a, like a whole life. And never get to the point of finally like, oh shit. Well define what 

[00:46:05] Katherine: a full life means. Whole. 'cause that life could be different to, to, to so many different people a whole 

[00:46:08] Toliy: life, 

[00:46:09] Katherine: you know?

[00:46:10] Toliy: Yeah. Because they say ignorance 

[00:46:11] Katherine: is bliss, right? No, 

[00:46:12] Toliy: no, no. He's saying like, can you go your whole life without ever realizing? Of course. Yeah. So then, then obviously then, then, then whatever it is. And what 

[00:46:20] Katherine: if that person never suffered with, you know, oh shit, you know, I'm a real piece of shit I need to, to change.

[00:46:25] But you know, your worse 

[00:46:25] Toliy: when you have multi-generation retardation, which is very good. Absolutely. You know why? Because it's justice. 

[00:46:31] Katherine: I actually, I I feel that you just woke 

[00:46:33] Eldar: up, Mike. Mike's sleeping man, 

[00:46:36] Mike: guys not saying anything. 

[00:46:39] Katherine: I forgot what I was saying actually, 

[00:46:41] Mike: you 

[00:46:41] Eldar: know? 

[00:46:41] Toliy: Yeah. Like, yeah, I think it said definitely possible is like, I wish you just knew what you're up against and you have the option, and you actually have the choice.

[00:46:49] But by time, like you don't get a ramp, time to then make a d make a decision after being taught. Correctly know what should be a ramp 

[00:46:57] Eldar: time 

[00:46:57] Toliy: like. You, you, you're just like birthed into the world and now whoever's gonna teach you is going to teach, teach you. And most likely, I would say statistic shows are like, like, I, I don't remember who was able to, are you under the impression 

[00:47:10] Eldar: that you, you now, as the person that you are right now, is the same person that was born to your parents?

[00:47:14] No. All right then. So what are we talking about? No, who, who is this now? Who is this now? Well, no, but I'm saying is that who has been rebirthed since that person that died? 

[00:47:24] Katherine: It's a totally bear. 

[00:47:25] Eldar: Yeah. Huh? Yeah. Shout out to Gina. Like, like, I think that like, we underestimate the fact that, okay, if your parents are sinners and they fucked up their life and then they birth someone into this life, right?

[00:47:37] They're gonna go through that fuck up, up until you grow up. Right? Like you, my mom's going through this with your sister, for example, right? She's suffering a lot, right? With all the nonsense that she's doing. Because of all the things that your mom lacked, all the things that your mom didn't pass on to your sister.

[00:47:52] Yeah. Right. But when your sister finally reaches that point, when it's like, okay, no, she matures 

[00:47:58] Toliy: and she No, but wait, if like the, the very good depiction in this, to me is like the, uh, the Truman show, right? Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:05] Katherine: If the, uh, totally speaks in movies. Yeah. 

[00:48:08] Toliy: If the uh, if the, if the directors and everything else never had any slip ups, he'd just be like, Hey, elder.

[00:48:15] Hey Kat. Hey Mike. Good morning, good afternoon, and good night. Good evening. Goodnight. Yeah. Right. He would just continue that cycle. But there was somewhere where there was mess up, and those mess ups led to curiosity. And when that fucking boat hit the fucking wall, it's like, oh shit. 

[00:48:30] Mike: Yeah. What the fuck is 

[00:48:31] Toliy: not supposed to have ju Just like a, A wall.

[00:48:34] A wall. Yeah. Right. Can, can, can I add 

[00:48:36] Katherine: onto that? This is a little bit, a little bit different, but I think it adds on. I'll keep it really quick. I was, I was at the physical therapy, uh, as I was with a physical therapist. And we were talking about something and I explained curiosity, not explained. I ex, I expressed curiosity about something.

[00:48:55] And do you know what he said? He, he's Christian and he quoted the Bible and he said, you know, we're not meant to know everything that's up to God. And like he, you know, and I was like, oh, okay. That's one way to look at it. And then he, he basically kind of also referenced, like 

[00:49:10] Eldar: he said, you a sinner 

[00:49:12] Katherine: that's for sinners.

[00:49:13] Like, you know, when when you start digging too much you might end up in hell type of thing. And I thought that was a really interesting way. So for some, maybe you might even, you know, quote your religion or, or use that as a, as a way to. Keep your world small or keep correct. He's yourself a little bit ignorant, right?

[00:49:29] Yeah. I think he, he's giving interesting that, 

[00:49:31] Toliy: that, that Adam, uh, eats the apple. 

[00:49:32] Katherine: Yeah. I was like, know, you know, for some, it was really just really like nonsense. We weren't having like a deep conversation, but his perspective on that, I was like, oh damn. So like for him, you know, we're talking about curiosity being a good thing, you know, to like living a more fulfilled or fun life.

[00:49:49] He is talking about like, Hey, curiosity is, is this sinful? It's not good. And I was like, I think it's Oh, 

[00:49:54] Toliy: sinful to say that curiosity is sinful. 

[00:49:57] Katherine: That's what I thought. I was like, okay, I think that you have, well, that kind of shuts the door on that conversation before you 

[00:50:01] Eldar: make those conclusions. I think you have to def ask him to define what he means by curiosity.

[00:50:05] Okay. Because the way we are at least been like. Rooting for curiosity is to have a curious childlike mind. To be able to ask questions and stuff. Yeah. And to really figure out what the fuck is going on. Yeah. You know what I mean? Where maybe in his world of curiosity, I think it's like 

[00:50:18] Katherine: he might have a different perception of what curiosity means.

[00:50:20] Figure 

[00:50:21] Toliy: out ways to hack shit or steal shit or cheat shit. Shit. Yeah. No, that the conversation obvious wasn't about that. 

[00:50:25] Katherine: Like I, you know, yeah, I wasn't talking about that. Yeah. 

[00:50:28] Eldar: What I'm saying is that, look, if you're saying that like, oh, some people don't even get a chance to fucking ramp up or because they're like they were brought up or whatever.

[00:50:35] I think that your parents have to live out their sins and sometimes they live out those sins through their kids. Rightfully so. Yeah, of course. But what I'm 

[00:50:43] Toliy: saying is that these behaviors are loop like behaviors. Generational. So what? It's generational What 

[00:50:49] Katherine: So what, so is that what you're saying? No. But you don't know it, but 

[00:50:51] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:50:51] But up, up to a point where then you do know it. No. And then you have a choice in the matter. 

[00:50:56] Toliy: Something needs, something needs to go like dramatically wrong from the plan for you for that to happen. 

[00:51:02] Eldar: Yeah. An awakening. 

[00:51:05] Toliy: Yeah. That, that's, that's what I'm saying is that like, you, like when you make these kinds of decisions and you're, you, you go in a loop.

[00:51:12] Like, like, um, um, uh, Truman was in a loop that was manufactured and created. Sure. And he would've never gotten, I think, to where he gotten if it wasn't for slip-ups. 

[00:51:24] Eldar: Okay. He 

[00:51:24] Toliy: would've just stuck in that same loop and died in that same loop. 

[00:51:26] Eldar: Yeah. I don't think we have an argument. I don't think we're arguing there.

[00:51:29] Yeah. No, I'm all, I'm just saying is that agreed, those people need to live this stuff out, up to a point and then they die. Yeah. But 

[00:51:36] Toliy: I'm saying is that, like, if, like, if you took him, like what, what, what, what happened to his life and how it unfolded? And like this loop that he was in, it was a manufactured loop, right?

[00:51:47] You could just say that the, that the directors in the whole movie and everything was his parents and like his like, 

[00:51:51] Eldar: yeah. And up to a point it worked and then it didn't. 

[00:51:53] Toliy: Yeah. No, but I'm saying is that like, it, it, it's the same thing now. If you are, if your parents are clueless. You will most likely be clueless.

[00:52:02] And the more clueless they are, I think the harder it is to get out of that cluelessness. 

[00:52:07] Eldar: But the world is big and, and your parents's influence is just so much Well, yeah. Get up to a point. Well, yes. That, that stretches, that their understanding about the world is only up to a point, and then you have their internet, and then you have other people, and then you have TV and all this, all this shit.

[00:52:21] Yeah. But, but 

[00:52:21] Toliy: that's also a thing with like internet and people and friends, if they're also incorrect, raised by by, yeah. If they're also in incorrect, it'll only like, again, like materialistic things. Yeah. A lot of the, a lot of like, the country believes in this and they put a ton of value on this. Sure.

[00:52:38] That means that a lot of people are being brainwashed. And a lot of people agree with this notion, but why do you have a problem with it? And they don't come to it. 

[00:52:46] Eldar: What, why, why do you have a problem with it? That's a good thing. Well, I, well, I, I, it, it's, it's it's maximum pain. Yeah. To get, to lead to what?

[00:52:53] To again, a realization that it's not it. Yeah. 

[00:52:56] Toliy: But the thing is that like. Who gives a fuck how, what, what it takes when me and Mike go hiking. Yeah. And we look at a trail. Yeah. What, what, what, what are the different things? It says loop or what, what's the other thing called? If it's a loop trail or the other, I don't know.

[00:53:11] But, but you know what I'm talking about. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Like some trails say that it's a loop. That means that like, wherever you start, you're gonna come back the same way you're gonna finish back to that same place. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And some trails are not loop where like you start at one 

[00:53:21] Eldar: place, you one starting end point somewhere 

[00:53:23] Toliy: else.

[00:53:23] No, a loop loop is like, definitely wanna go walk the same way. And you come 

[00:53:26] Eldar: down, 

[00:53:26] Toliy: you go in the Yeah, yeah. Somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah. So like, you know this ahead of time. Yeah. It's not like you're like, oh, like, well we gotta go back down. We didn't know about this. Yeah. We know about this. So like, this is a loop trail.

[00:53:37] Yeah. Mm-hmm. We're gonna be going up and down the same path. 

[00:53:39] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:40] Toliy: But life is not like that. Like, you don't get the heads up that like, Hey Elder, this is what's gonna happen. 

[00:53:45] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:46] Toliy: This is what it is. And then you, and then, and then you're put in a position where you could think and make a decision instead.

[00:53:52] You just get like thrown in the fire and then you have to like, yeah. But the thing is, again, repair your burns, you know? Yeah, 

[00:53:57] Eldar: sure. But like you said, everyone is already pre, has a pre-installation in their program of what balance. And everybody's receptive to pain. Just how much of it is needed in order to learn.

[00:54:10] That's up to you. We'll see. Yeah. That's it. 

[00:54:14] Mike: And that's 

[00:54:14] Eldar: a 

[00:54:14] Mike: good thing, I think. I mean, we spoke, we spoke about this many, many times, you know? Yeah. Everything is perfectly designed by the universe, by nature, by God, yeah. Whatever you wanna call it. Just because you didn't listen for 80 years of your life. Yeah.

[00:54:29] The, I don't think I've ever seen or met or ever will meet, you know, in my lifetime. Maybe a person who hasn't suffered. And the way I look at suffering is an opportunity to end the suffering. Because when you're suffering 

[00:54:42] Toliy: Yeah. But you have to. Yeah. But you, you, you got to a place where like the, this is like what you, um, you think of it.

[00:54:48] Versus like if you didn't have that kind of attitude. Sure. Hold on towards it. 

[00:54:52] Mike: Hold on. Yeah. But people suffered many times in their lives and they had those sufferings were opportunities to one day learn. Okay, one day they learned. Some people learned, some people lived their whole lives, they never learned.

[00:55:06] And then the next life they learned, this is the, like, I think this is how it's designed. And if it's designed this way, I believe, I mean, I would think it's, there's a reason for that. Yeah. Like, like you, somebody didn't get opportunities because they weren't supposed to. That's just by design. No. Yeah. And those, somebody got an opportunity, that time.

[00:55:22] They listened, then there was destined to the, the, to have the opportunity to learn. 

[00:55:27] Toliy: Yeah. And like I'm, I'm, I'm fine with that. Like, like for, for example, like 

[00:55:32] Mike: the, 

[00:55:32] Toliy: to me, like 

[00:55:32] Mike: no. Okay. No real, 

[00:55:34] Toliy: real life one. Okay. Harris got the opportunity. 

[00:55:37] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:55:40] No, he chose to eat the app. No, I don't think he got the opportunity.

[00:55:43] Uh, well, no, I think he probably, we. Gave the opportunity, saw that he, we saw, to give him an opportunity. Yeah. What he looked at was not an opportunity. Yes. He did not see what we saw. 

[00:55:53] Eldar: Yeah. But I, we can't call that an opportunity, like what we were going against. We were going against a tide. Yeah. A crazy tide that was going the other way.

[00:55:59] Yeah. Or, or we, no, it was a river, a very powerful river guys going against the odds for sure. And we all jumped in, tried to swim the other way and try tug him with us. Yeah. But that's what happened. It's like, like 

[00:56:11] Toliy: that, like I, I, I've, I felt like at least at, at, at least we gave what, what to me is a satisfactory amount of warnings and heads up that like yo 

[00:56:23] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:56:23] And I think always no good. I think that's the job that we needed to do. Yes. Yes. So now he's gonna have a lifelong potential reflection 

[00:56:30] Toliy: point. Yeah. So now like, whatever happens, like I'm fine with pretty much Yeah. Like, I'm fine. I'm fine with it because you got a hundred x more warnings. Opportunities than the average person in this country gets.

[00:56:45] Yeah. Mm-hmm. By experiencing what he experienced. And if you still, but you still did 

[00:56:48] Katherine: right by him. Yeah. Yeah. You, if you still didn't 

[00:56:51] Toliy: get the heads up, sleep at night, 

[00:56:52] Katherine: you know, if 

[00:56:52] Toliy: you still didn't get the memo, then you don't deserve to read right now. Like you, you like Yeah. Like, you know. Yeah. So like, I'm fine with 

[00:57:01] Eldar: that.

[00:57:03] What are you not fine with? What, what are you not fine with? Well, no, like, no, generally. 'cause I agree with your general statement about the whole thing that we do have the system of balances. It's just checks and balances in our body, in our system. It's just, you don't like the fact that there's gonna be a point where you're gonna be faced pain.

[00:57:19] And the pain has to be so much so that like, either you're gonna learn through it or you're gonna perish through it. I'll say what, what I want and you don't like it. 

[00:57:26] Toliy: I, I wanna, for example, and that's part of the gig, I think I, I, I want this, everyone pretty much need, like everyone in, let's say the United States, let's just say for the most part, kids.

[00:57:39] Um, go to school, right? Like that's just Sure. Like that's just a thing. Yeah. Like you go to school. So like, to me, that should be like the most sacred, um, like place of like cha like of, of um, raising challenger mind mindset training so that those kids get challenged in a particular way and get taught the good Right.

[00:58:02] So that they can then go battle their parents and battle Yeah. The people that got it wrong. So if they, if there was a school system 

[00:58:09] Eldar: that 

[00:58:09] Toliy: could 

[00:58:10] Eldar: do that. I'm not sure if this could be enforced, but I agree with you. The fact that our whole goal is to, if our parents didn't do such a good job or we, you know what, whatever.

[00:58:19] Every single parent should be challenged ultimately by their kids, I think, and ultimately the kids have to graduate, the parents as think, but people 

[00:58:25] Katherine: who are the teachers. Yes. Like that's also, yeah. I'm saying Thatm assuming that the teacher's got it right. 

[00:58:30] Toliy: Yeah. I'm, I'm saying well, he wants, he wants a good system.

[00:58:33] I, yeah, no, I would want a system re I would want a good system. Yeah. Yeah. A good system. Re rehaul of the education system to be designed that, like regardless of whatever your parents taught you, regardless of whatever you need for, once you get into school, your beliefs are, are challenged enough. And I think you're at a young enough age where your mind can be changed obviously.

[00:58:54] And your mind can even be put to a point where you go, then challenge your parents and be like, dad, why'd, why did you say this about 

[00:58:59] Katherine: that? Parents probably wouldn't my, I think a lot of parents wouldn't want to School. School. Let, lemme ask you though, lemme ask you this though, 

[00:59:05] Eldar: that goes against everything we just said about the fact that the parents have to also outlive, uh, or live out their sins through their kids.

[00:59:16] But why do they have to. If there was a system, 

[00:59:18] Toliy: but if 

[00:59:18] Eldar: there was a system. But that's 

[00:59:21] Katherine: the part of justice that we always talk about. That part. That's the justice, justice, your 

[00:59:23] Eldar: mom, right? Yeah. Your mom who hasn't, who didn't do a good job, let's just say lining up her life in order to then raise your sister properly or you properly.

[00:59:32] Right. Well, how could she just get off the hook by throwing your, throwing your sister into a education system and say, you know what, take care of her and, and make it right. You know what I mean? No. Like I think you Well, no, 

[00:59:41] Toliy: but I don't think it, it, it, it just makes 'em Right. I think it gives the kids the opportunity to think and to cha challenge and then like, um, like I, I, I, I think it even gives an opportunity for, in some cases, for the kids to teach the parents and help them.

[00:59:59] Mike: Yeah. I don't know if this is in as well, would be like in accordance with. If you believe in like the reincarnation and the soul, I don't think this is like a, it's a reasonable request. Just have like these group of teachers that are just like philosopher king teachers, you know, that just like are there to serve people and 

[01:00:18] Eldar: you have to assume, you have to assume that you have willing and parents to let go of their biggest attachments, which is their fucking kids.

[01:00:28] Toliy: No, they're not, they're 

[01:00:29] Eldar: not understand. Right. And then to put it, put, put their trust into teachers, these educators that he's talking about. No, 

[01:00:34] Toliy: but they still do, do, do this now. That the, now think about it, babe. They got, they kill Socrates. Well, the kid, the, the kid goes to school at eight in the morning till till 3:00 PM They're gone.

[01:00:45] They're whatever's happening there is like, parents are opting for their kids to be part of it, right? 

[01:00:49] Katherine: No, but you know what? I think it's, most parents don have a choice because they have 

[01:00:52] Toliy: brainwashing. Well, 

[01:00:54] Katherine: the parents have to go to work. That's part of the society. Right. Think it's different than they gotta, you know, they need to somebody watch, but they still do it.

[01:01:00] Nobody's giving their kids to get 

[01:01:02] Mike: brainwashed. But remember, yes. Uh, 

[01:01:03] Katherine: he was a Socrates. What was corrupting the youth? Youth like I feel like people will revolt and say no, of you're gonna corrupt. Don't want child. Yeah. Because even he's about an ideology. You're 

[01:01:13] Eldar: not talking about a subject of math, let's just say.

[01:01:14] Right. You're talking about ideology. 

[01:01:16] Katherine: Yeah. This is like a Yeah. This is like, 

[01:01:17] Eldar: yeah. You should, 

[01:01:18] Mike: you should listen to the Plato's Republic. That's exactly what they talk about. Yeah. What you're asking for. 

[01:01:23] Eldar: Yeah. She wants a rehaul. Yeah. 

[01:01:24] Toliy: Yeah. That, yeah. There has to be agree with the rehaul, but 

[01:01:28] Eldar: I don't see, don't 

[01:01:29] Mike: see that the way like Yeah.

[01:01:31] But it's like, why, why, why? What's wrong with the current way that it's working? Like you disagree with it? 

[01:01:37] Toliy: Well, 

[01:01:37] Eldar: well no's, plenty of work for you with these dumb asses. 

[01:01:40] Toliy: Yeah, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying that that way you'll forever be useful. You're trying to like, like society is trying to strive obviously for better and for progression, you know?

[01:01:53] Um, and, and it does obviously slowly progressed and may, may maybe it like. Regresses, like, uh, temporarily on certain things, right? Yeah. But then eventually corrects itself. Yeah. I think that there's a 

[01:02:04] Eldar: natural balance when it comes to our own Yeah. Uh, full. Like if we were, if we look at, at the world and the people in it as a beehive, right.

[01:02:12] I think that to some degree we do move through certain level of synchronicity of development. Sure. Sometimes we regress, sometimes we progress and stuff like that. But nonetheless, I think there is a synchronicity through things like the internet, you know what I mean? Where you can get a wealth of knowledge in the split of a second across the world, you know?

[01:02:30] Yeah. And then like everybody will be buzzing about the same thing for that, for that moment or whatever. And I think it's, it's going that way anyway, but it's very hard to influence everyone, obviously at the same time. 

[01:02:40] Toliy: Yeah. No, but I think it's, no, for sure. I think right now, now I'm not saying that like Right, right now, you just like change everything, but like, yeah, snap your fingers to me, to me's like, but like the kids are subject through 12 years, like starting from first grade, for example, or, or 13 years.

[01:02:56] If you wanna call kindergarten. 13 years of your life is dedicated to the school system that you're in. And if you're, for example, in, you know, whichever town you're from and whatever state you're in, if you're going to public school, you're going to that school and that's 13 years, you're gonna stay there, you're gonna go for 13 years like that.

[01:03:13] That's just like the general path, right? Um, so like if you're going to already commit that kind of time to doing that, you might as well teach the important things. You might as well, um, do that. So, so that like regardless of whose parents or who's like, like, like whoever has good or bad parents or busy parents, or not busy parents or knowledgeable parents or not, you're put in a position where you can get the heads up.

[01:03:41] Eldar: Yeah. It's not, it's, it's, yeah. I think it's first of all like you under the impression that they're not. Trying to make an effort for that. No, I think they are. I, I, I, 

[01:03:51] Mike: I think there's people at the top. 

[01:03:52] Toliy: I think they're, but there's also 

[01:03:53] Mike: communities that exist like this already. Even, there's like a lot of Anastasia communities, Uhhuh, like these bunch of small groups of people that Grassroots movements.

[01:04:02] Yeah. 

[01:04:02] Katherine: Communes. 

[01:04:03] Mike: Yeah. They have these kind of things. They 

[01:04:04] Toliy: raise their kids well. He wants the whole world to be 

[01:04:06] Eldar: on this. Yeah, 

[01:04:07] Toliy: I get it. Well, no, like, like, there, there should, like, school should again, should educate you and give you the heads ups, and then if you still fuck up and you still go the wrong way, like, look, whoa, you got a good opportunity.

[01:04:20] Right? Like what, what we were trying to do, for example, for Harris, uh, uh, for Harris, yeah. Trying to put him through the proper schooling that he never got and that he never went through because of the way he, he is. And if he does not deserve 

[01:04:34] Mike: this, then, then we did exactly what's supposed to happen.

[01:04:37] Everything that happens supposed to happen. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He may crack it this life. He may not crack it, but also it goes to show that there's something that's above, like there's a design that. We don't have like, let's say, an input in for other people. Maybe we have some input for ourselves and then still not everything, obviously, right?

[01:04:54] 'cause as we grow, we discover more things. We of our own choices and mistakes forever, endlessly we learn. Mm-hmm. There's a design here and it affects us all. No, for sure. And I think the only thing we can do is to be accountable for our own design and try to not extend our ignorance to other people. 

[01:05:11] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:05:12] Just, just like, like yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm definitely in agreement with like, I understand the, uh, design. Just, to me the interesting part is that like the, the biggest you not, you not, you understand it, but you're not in with, doesn't, like you don't agree or you don't respect it Well, no, no. Like, I, I respect it.

[01:05:29] I like, I'm, I'm, I'm not saying that like, uh, like Harris or, or, or maybe someone else is not getting exactly what they deserve. They, they are, you know? Yeah. But I'm saying is that like, I just think it's a very interesting thing, like a very interesting concept that the. The most important, like life issues and like the most important things to address and to think about and to learn are things that you can't see.

[01:05:57] Like, or like you can't like, but to 

[01:06:00] Eldar: To who? Yeah. To you. You could see them, but obviously like me and Catherine, if we're gonna be parents or you Yeah. If you are gonna be parents or Mike is gonna be parents. Right. Uh, we hope to be able to do a better job. You know what I mean? But a hundred percent. Yeah.

[01:06:13] But I also think that without limited abilities on unlimited minds or whatever we're struggling with, right. I hope and I wish for my kids to supersede us to the next level. Yeah. You're 

[01:06:22] Toliy: also not gonna be able to account for everything in every scenario. It's just not possible. 

[01:06:26] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. But nonetheless, I think that I would like to do a, a good job.

[01:06:31] Yeah. With whatever capacity that I can. Yeah. Oh, I know. Yeah. 

[01:06:34] Toliy: Yeah. If you guys can't do it, it just, aliens have to like, just nu nuke the earth and just alien, start over and start over. This is not looking good for, uh, yeah. For your kind. Yeah. We're gonna take you away. Yeah. And start over on Pluto. Pluto.

[01:06:49] Mike: But 

[01:06:51] Katherine: you know, it's, it's, it's funny, but like, like that pressure is so real. I don't know if all parents feel like that, but I feel like that duty for us to, to do right by them and to raise someone that's better than us, or that that was raised better than we did. That's a, that's a crazy amount of pressure, you know, especially like this day and age with.

[01:07:12] Just everything that's around us, you know, like it's, it's a big deal. 

[01:07:16] Eldar: Well, yeah, the most important thing is that like, knowing what we know now, you don't want to, number one, bring a kid into this life of suffering and not being able to explain what the fuck is going on. That's one, right? Yeah. Like, you know, that like, shit, like shit's tough.

[01:07:30] You gotta be, you 

[01:07:31] know what I mean? So if it's tough, you want to try to try your best to have some preventative care pad the fall. If, if you know that they're gonna fall, you know, have some knowledge, you know? So you don't just wanna, like, you wanna be prepared, you know? So if you are incompetent and stuff, and you just kind of wanna wing it just because everybody else is winging it.

[01:07:48] Yeah. Or like, it's time to do it because it's like your age or whatever. No, it's not. And like, it's like, what a selfish way of going about it, you know? Like if you can't Yeah. I, I mean, it's hard. It, it would be a sin I think, you know? 

[01:08:01] Katherine: Yeah. That's a tough one. You know? 

[01:08:03] Eldar: If you, yourself know that, like internally, like, you know what, like, I'm not really a hundred percent prepared.

[01:08:08] Like I'm, I'm getting to a place where I'm getting better, I'm feeling better. I'm doing everything that I said that I wanted to do. I feel stronger and I'm becoming more confident in this area, you know, when, when it comes to this whole thing that I'm doing. But, um, if I didn't and I brought a child into this life knowing that like I messed up a little bit here and there and I can't give my all, then it's like, it's gonna be on my conscious, it's gonna be weighing on my conscious.

[01:08:32] And I, I'm sure that a lot of parents have that for, you know, when they're raising their kids and like, oh, I've hear, I've hear so many parents, I wish I spend more time with them. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, I have to go to work, or I have to do this, or I have to do that. You know, like knowing all those things, if I did that, like I know how I would feel like, and that's not good.

[01:08:48] I, 

[01:08:49] Katherine: I'm almost 40 years old and my mom's biggest regret. Is having had to work and, and give me to a nanny when I was like nine months or something. Yeah. Till this day. 

[01:08:57] Eldar: You see, 

[01:08:58] Katherine: that is her biggest regret. Regret. I don't wanna live with that. I wish I would've been able to stay home with you and not have, you know, they, they had to survive obviously, as immigrants here in the us but like she's still like till 40 years later, she's still talking about this.

[01:09:10] Yeah. Yeah. And 

[01:09:11] Eldar: that's, that's spending time with them or putting in that work. Right. What about passing on some of your fears, some of your anxieties and all this other stuff that you currently already have? How do you gonna make sure that you don't, you don't do that to them? Yeah. That you, you block their world and their, their curiosity and their wonder about the world.

[01:09:28] Yeah. 

[01:09:29] Mike: Fear is a huge proponent of like being a parent. Absolutely. Like not proponent, but a huge part of being a parent. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're so worried about them. Yeah. And every single and their 

[01:09:38] Katherine: safety Yeah. Thing you 

[01:09:39] Mike: hear, you react out of automatic response. Yeah. And if your automatic responses are cooked Yeah.

[01:09:45] Shit's cooked. Yeah. You're just gonna have like a anxious kid. Fearful kid. Scared of the world. Yeah. Not confident. Not balanced. Not balanced. Yeah. But the balanced thing. I, I'm not, I think, I think, um, I was thinking, it seems like, um, everything totally said about the balance thing 

[01:10:03] Eldar: completely was erased based on how he feels at, at the end of the balance thing.

[01:10:06] Yeah. 

[01:10:06] Toliy: No, no. I, I, I don't feel love, Mike, finish. Why are you interrupting him? No, but I'm saying I don't feel a bad way towards like the, uh, 

[01:10:12] Eldar: the justice part. 

[01:10:13] Toliy: Yeah. No, no. I'm, no, I'm just saying that like, when it comes to life optimization, you know, focus 

[01:10:18] on 

[01:10:20] Yeah. Like when it comes to life 

[01:10:22] Mike: optimization.

[01:10:23] Mm-hmm. Like, but what is, like, what is a life optimization and why, why do you think that that's like the right thing? 

[01:10:32] Well, 

[01:10:32] uh, like, I understand 

[01:10:35] the 

[01:10:36] Toliy: question, 

[01:10:36] Mike: like, why do you think that everybody should have a opportunity to, uh, to optimize your life? To optimize their life? Like right now, you have things that you're, you are working on, you've worked on, and you've overcame.

[01:10:48] Are you still have things that you like, uh, kind of thrown in the back of the shed and not working on? Probably, yeah. Well probably. Okay, fine. We'll go probably, yeah. Why don't you do that? You like a philosopher or a thinker, right? Well, you still like distract yourself with other things and, you know, uh, guess not balance and things.

[01:11:05] Why you do that? You had to start. 

[01:11:07] Toliy: Yeah, no, I, I mean like, look, you, you obviously tackle like mm-hmm. What, what, what you can, yeah. And you obviously, um, but who decides 

[01:11:15] Mike: what you can tackle and what you can't 

[01:11:18] Toliy: tackle? Well, um, you do like your, your, your capabilities. 

[01:11:24] Mike: Well, so what if you don't have a choice and, and ta and I'm making the distinction like, oh, I've gotta tackle this.

[01:11:30] I'm in 

[01:11:31] Toliy: pain. Well, well, no, like the whole point I think of like education and the whole point of like, you know, like the whole point of things, right? Is to get like better and like, be like smarter and more efficient. So, like that, that's all I'm talking about. 

[01:11:44] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:45] Toliy: You. 

[01:11:47] Mike: Okay, so, so yeah, explain optimization 

[01:11:51] Toliy: then.

[01:11:52] Well, like the optim, like, I think everyone's trying to live better lives based on like whatever understandings 

[01:11:59] Mike: they have better understanding of what they believe is better or in the actual understanding of what better is. 

[01:12:02] Toliy: No better on what they, but well, so, so both, but, but yeah, like there's a, uh, unconscious gravitational pull towards, regardless of what they believe.

[01:12:12] Mm-hmm. That, that, that that's the balance that he's talking about. Yes. Mm-hmm. That's the balance and that's that, that's playing out. 

[01:12:18] Mike: Um, but how come the gravitational pull is strong, but usually the way that they achieve the balance is always, well, not always, but a lot of time is un in unbalanced ways.

[01:12:27] Oh, you had a long day at work. Smoke some cigarettes, smoke some weed, drink some alcohol, overeat on food. 

[01:12:32] Toliy: Yeah. You're operating from desire or discipline or attachment to your wrong understanding. Mm-hmm. And you're making decisions through that. And now you need to basically rely. On the natural order of things to help bring you back.

[01:12:45] Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:46] Which you're not even conscious about. Yes. Yeah. Which, which not even con conscious of, but this is just happening on the backend. Mm-hmm. Whether you like it or not, Uhhuh, if you keep working, you're gonna crash. Yeah. It's gonna eventually need, need to rest. Mm-hmm. This is now like, something that you need to, what about 

[01:12:59] Mike: if you're having like a fun and you overdo it?

[01:13:02] Well, 

[01:13:04] Eldar: well, same thing. Same thing applies to that. So then you overdo it or overdo it? Overdo it. Yeah. You can overdo it, what's gonna happen? Same thing, you're gonna crash, you 

[01:13:11] Toliy: can't, yeah. Anytime you use that word overdo something. Mm-hmm. Like too much like any, any of that. Mm-hmm. It's, it's, it's, it's like, oh, it, it's like something has to compensate when you're out of balance.

[01:13:25] Something has to do that and eventually, because that thing has to work harder now, right? Mm-hmm. Um, what are the, whether it's like your heart, your leg, 'cause you have one injury, maybe your other leg is working overtime now. Mm-hmm. Because it's working more than it's supposed to. It, that that thing then is going to have to give out and like, it creates like a compounding like, um, effect.

[01:13:47] Mike: And the only way to un uh, unbalance it is through like, uh, more to rebalance it, to, to balance, to bring 

[01:13:55] Toliy: it back. Like the way you say people like Oh, so to relieve their shit. To rebalance. Yeah. Well, to, to rebalance. There's one, there's a, uh, an a, uh, subconscious like non, non, non-conscious force that's happening that's in accordance mm-hmm.

[01:14:09] To that. 

[01:14:10] Mike: Now when anytime you unbalance itself is always the result of trying to balance itself is always another 

[01:14:16] Eldar: negative. No, no. You might, you might, you might hit the middle, you might get enough sleep, or you might drink enough to relax one, one thing, but it might off-balance something else. Yeah. And then you keep going up until you hit that middle ground for yourself where it's uh, naturally feels okay, and then you kind of restart up until you fuck up again.

[01:14:34] Like you, 

[01:14:34] Toliy: yeah. Like if you're making better choices, like if you're. Ping ponging, for example, if it's like a huge distance, like with your arm, like, like, like, you know, from like one side to to the other. Mm-hmm. The closer, the better decisions you make, the closer the gap gets. And eventually like you kind of trap like the ping pong ball right.

[01:14:51] In between like your hands. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And you, you then are, are on the right, like a path in the right like way of doing things, but um, yeah, like what's usually happening is that yes, you're overcompensating one way, you know, like you work really hard. Mm-hmm. Now you need to relax really hard. Yeah. Well then now that, now now you have another effect that you just started because of that.

[01:15:11] Mm-hmm. Well, because you like your way of relaxing is drinking and now you're drinking a lot. Well now you're like ruining like your liver or you're ruining like different parts of your health or you're destroying like your brain cells. I don't, don't know. Mm-hmm. Your all leading to a certain 

[01:15:25] Eldar: level of pain that you need in order to wake up.

[01:15:27] Toliy: Yes. Mm-hmm. So yeah. So when you're not making those. Decisions. So, 

[01:15:32] Mike: yeah, no, I was trying to ask, like I'm, I'm trying to ask every time you do like an imbalance behavior, right? Yeah. Like you overdo something. The opposite reaction is always gonna be imbalanced as well. Correct. It's 

[01:15:43] Toliy: gonna, it, so, so it's not gonna, it, it doesn't need to always be imbalance.

[01:15:46] It, it, it, it could help put you into balance. But then the question is that once you're back into like somewhat of a balance, what do you do next? How do, do you unbalance yourself again? Do you make decisions? The second part of it in balance, 

[01:15:59] Mike: is it always in a form of something like, I don't know, drinking, smoking, eating, gambling.

[01:16:07] It's never, it's, it's in 

[01:16:08] Toliy: what, you know. Yeah. 

[01:16:09] Mike: Yeah. But it's like the response to that is not like a one that's like, I dunno. No, it can be a good response. Is sleeping like a considered a bad thing or, well, you can oversleep. You can oversleep, I guess. Yeah. 

[01:16:21] Eldar: Yeah. But some people don't want to wake up. Mm-hmm.

[01:16:25] Right. They just want to keep being in bed because they're depressed. 

[01:16:28] Mike: Mm. 

[01:16:28] Eldar: Yeah. Right. They don't want to face the world at that moment, so 

[01:16:30] Mike: none so necessarily. It doesn't matter the behaviors. It could be you could, you 

[01:16:33] Eldar: can go and, and start running context around it, and you run, run, run, and you got rid of the depression that you were in.

[01:16:38] Mm-hmm. But then you all out rant and you hurt your ankles. Yeah. So 

[01:16:42] Mike: it's essentially any behavior. Yeah. I guess the way I'm understanding it is that it doesn't, none of the behaviors necessarily are, uh, bad, bad. It's only the connotation that we have around it or the replace our relationship with them with that thing.

[01:16:56] Yeah. Correct. 

[01:16:57] Eldar: And I think that this goes back to what Buddha kept saying. Mm-hmm. You have to find a balance moderation. Moderation in those things. Yeah. And if you do, if you could strike that, then you can pluck out whatever happiness or whatever enjoyment and fulfillment that you do get mm-hmm. From, from it.

[01:17:11] Right. Without overdoing it. Without overcompensating it. Yeah. Just, and I think that's what we're after. 

[01:17:15] Toliy: Yeah. It just takes an incredibly, incredibly intelligent person. To understand the ripples of his beha of that person's behaviors. Mm-hmm. Or the consequences of their actions and being able to really understand, like on a scale of like 

[01:17:32] Mike: and other things that you are developing.

[01:17:33] I think ultimately it's where to find out what, what, what the cause of the effect of things are. 

[01:17:37] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. 

[01:17:37] Mike: And trying to improve your life. Right. And working in the, um, I mean being, let's just say being a better person, living a better life. Right. Balance is a much, uh, is it much higher on the scale versus like, Hey, you know what, I want to be more honest of what, um, on 

[01:17:52] Eldar: the scale of what, is there like 

[01:17:53] Mike: a distinction between those?

[01:17:54] Like the human suffering, be more patient, some things that are a little bit, is either one less or more complicated? I think 

[01:18:00] Toliy: balance, I 

[01:18:01] Eldar: think is a 

[01:18:01] Toliy: culmination of all those things. Yeah. Balance is enlightenment. It's complete enlightenment when the, when, when the fighter stops on a scale and it gets to the right weight of what they actually are.

[01:18:11] Yeah. Does the scale move anymore? 

[01:18:13] Mike: No. 

[01:18:14] Toliy: Once it hits the actual point, that's it. But until then it goes left and right and left and right until you get to the right amount of weight. Yeah. Where you're a hundred percent accurate. 

[01:18:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:18:22] Toliy: That's it. Like that's enlightenment, you know? Yeah. Like it, like there, there, there's nothing like past that.

[01:18:29] Eldar: That's it. And I think that those things that you mentioned are definitely, are important, but there's probably gaps in between where we are not. Honest. Yeah. Or maybe we're honest on one hand, but maybe we doing some Aggie shit on the other hand. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like mm-hmm. And there's constant teetering back and forth Yeah.

[01:18:46] From one thing to another where I think the encompassing balance that totally iss talking about is to be able to flow through actions that, uh, exemplify all the virtues. Yeah. 

[01:18:59] Mike: That's what I was getting to. That was my belief. And that's like, that is the enlighten that that, that, that was my belief. I just wanted to, you know, make sure that, like see, hey, you guys felt about it because Yeah.

[01:19:07] I felt like balance is a culmination. Like love is a combination of all the virtues Yeah. That exist. Love balance that Oh yeah. 

[01:19:14] Eldar: I think, yeah. When you're balanced, I think it's inevitable for you then to, to, to pour out love. Mm-hmm. Uh, and live in a, in accordance to love. Mm-hmm. That's like those two are probably intertwined together there.

[01:19:25] Yeah. Where it's like that which you illuminate for the world and for yourself is love starting first with self love and then pouring out into, into compassion and mm-hmm. Towards the world. Yeah. You know,

[01:19:40] but up until then, continue to experience pain. Yeah. 

[01:19:46] Katherine: Wom, 

[01:19:49] Eldar: what do you think, babe? We onto something again, or no? 

[01:19:51] Katherine: Yeah, absolutely. 

[01:19:53] Eldar: So you like learning through pain? You, 

[01:19:56] Katherine: I don't like it. I just don't know if there's another route. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, I can't hail a cab and like take a shortcut. Like this is what it is, you know?

[01:20:06] Yeah. 

[01:20:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:20:07] Katherine: You have to go through it. See that, 

[01:20:08] Mike: like what you just said. I like, I think everybody would, would say that even though how many times, like, right, like in the, at least in the previous episodes, KA will come here and she's like, what do I do? And I say, well, just come and, you know, share, come and share.

[01:20:20] Like you always say, yeah, yeah. But for that person, well then what is that? How is that person gonna do that? It's like you, it's like trying to stuff a watermelon in a garden hose kind of thing. Like, uh. It's the same thing that you're asking, you're trying to ask like, Hey, let's teach all these kids from school to do all this.

[01:20:36] But it would be, it would be very hard because first you have to raise these teachers who can do this. Then you would have to have this. Well, yeah. I'm not just saying like, let's wave a magic cord. Do this. No, I'm not saying that, but I'm saying, saying, I'm saying that that process that Kat's going through is part of the process that you go through individual as an individual to get to the place that you can yourself, reach, reach that, that you take your own accountability, that you feel empowered and whatever it is, and you understand that.

[01:21:02] Yeah. But I, you are in the suffering for your reasons because of you, not because of your parents. You take all that on yourself. You're in whatever good or bad that comes towards your life. It's all 

[01:21:12] Toliy: you. Yeah. But I think that like, once you have like, like, like I think Kat is, it is. Is at a point where I think she realizes that like there is a better life.

[01:21:22] Right. Like to to live out there. Right. Of that. Like, you think it's possible, right? Yeah. 

[01:21:25] Katherine: And I know change is possible. It's just really hard. Yeah. She's done it too. Yeah. Change sucks once. Yeah. Yeah. So once 

[01:21:30] Toliy: you have that, that's it. Like, there there's no like, uh, turning back. Yeah. Well, well, yeah. There's no turning back and whenever conversation's had you always meet at that same place, right?

[01:21:42] Yeah. Because like you always meet at the place of like, like everyone knows that. Like, hey, like, well, you're suffering then you're still at that place where like, you know, we were at that bus stop. Yeah. 

[01:21:52] Mike: Yeah. You're still there. Yeah. You know? 

[01:21:53] Toliy: So like, whatcha are you waiting for once you complain or once you display, like, you know, that like.

[01:21:59] You have to go right back to that stop and then talk about it. Yeah, sure. That's why 

[01:22:02] Eldar: these types of conversations very interesting because of the fact that there's a continuation mm-hmm. Of a storyline where we actually know what the bus stop entails. Yes. Who's on that bus? Yeah. Why are you not getting on that bus?

[01:22:13] Yes. Yeah. And everything else, right? These are actual real conversations that we can see, uh, transgression Yes. Or whatever. 

[01:22:23] Toliy: Yeah. I forgot that word I was gonna use. 

[01:22:24] Katherine: No, but I, we understand 

[01:22:25] Toliy: what you, you can That one. Yeah. One like that. That's also why like, like not only the benefits of, of, of like sharing of like some, someone challenging or doing that.

[01:22:35] Mm-hmm. But once you share, like, everyone knows where you're at. Everyone knows where Mike or Ahm at or elder is at. Mm-hmm. Like, we all know where we're at, so like, well, like we have to pick up where we all left off every time. 

[01:22:47] Mike: Yeah. And I also, you know, you know, we're talking about Ka which, which, uh, it made me think about Harris.

[01:22:52] We had plenty of conversations in this room where he showed understanding and ability to reason, to think, to use his mind. To like unlock and operate on a higher level, if you want to call it that. Yeah. It was not meant for him apparently to keep going on that route. 

[01:23:09] Yeah. 

[01:23:10] You know, even though in moments of time he showed some, you know, I don't know if enlightenment or some semblance of some Yeah.

[01:23:17] Little breakthroughs, some wisdom, some breakthroughs, right. Yeah. But it's, again, it's also moment to moment. Like a lot of like, uh, lot of things. No, I, I think that we've came, yeah. 

[01:23:26] Eldar: I think we came to the point like we always do. I think that, um, we found his pain threshold. Yeah. And we found that, uh, he's probably graduated our thing here, right.

[01:23:37] When it comes to the amount of pain that he can endure or whatever. And now we have to summon the world reality in order to help him with continuing to. You know, apply that amount of pressure that is needed in order to mold Harris into somebody else who's gonna be better. And 

[01:23:51] Katherine: that's the growth, growth growth.

[01:23:52] A hundred percent. That's the growth. Because like Yeah. You know, he can sit here all day Yeah. And, and politic with you guys. Correct. But it's not until he goes out into the real world to what 

[01:24:00] Eldar: the presentation that I gave him during that time with you or we try to Right. Was not enough pain. No. In, in order for him to break through.

[01:24:08] No. Right. 

[01:24:09] Mike: The, yeah. The, the thing is, the pain is when we're pushing those pain buttons is we're challenging his ego. 

[01:24:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:14] Mike: But we throw in like fucking deer pellets, you know? Yeah. Yeah. At this fucking huge, huge thing. Yeah. 

[01:24:20] Eldar: Huge monster. No, but I think the other, it's not 

[01:24:22] Mike: gonna, but that the amount of pain that, that, that relationship can bring him.

[01:24:27] Yeah. We can't even come close to it. Yes, exactly. It's not even a, like, that's even can hold the candle or whatever you call, say. Correct. 

[01:24:33] Eldar: But at, at 

[01:24:34] Toliy: the moment, the person, we're not, we're not, we're not 

[01:24:35] Eldar: compatible right now. 

[01:24:36] Toliy: No, no, no. But that person at the moment, he like, like they, they, they think that we're.

[01:24:44] Correct. The world. The world is gonna be much meaner. Oh yeah. 

[01:24:48] Eldar: That's the whole point. Yeah. Yeah. I'm explaining to you that they just don't see it based on the person that's in there and who that actually is. And we were able to bring them out and we saw that that person can't come through the door like that.

[01:24:59] They can show that out there in the world and they will. And the world's gonna teach 'em. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because here, this is not welcomed. This type of behavior, this doesn't work. The gig is up. So naturally we're gonna get the real help from the system, from the world, from reality. And it's gotta do what it's gotta do.

[01:25:19] The amount of pain it has to apply in order for the person to finally start changing or bettering themselves or raising awareness. It's gonna do that. And it's gonna do it better than us. Of course. And everyone's 

[01:25:30] Katherine: threshold is, might be different. Yeah. It looks different, you know? But I think 

[01:25:33] Mike: everybody's like, uh, I think everybody's threshold is, D is different, but I think.

[01:25:39] Mm. 

[01:25:40] Eldar: I think we just have a, we, we, we have a good ability to be able to, uh, get, get, get, get people to that pain threshold. Yeah. But 

[01:25:48] Mike: to finally threshold, find out what it is. It's, uh, I think it's, in a way I feel like it's the threshold's the same. Everybody wants, like, like maybe Tony was saying, the balance.

[01:25:59] Everybody's going towards balance and everybody's trying to go towards that same place, right? Yeah. Like every single person is looking for that, but out there, the world is gonna, is presenting 'em. This probably again, I always think that's the biggest challenge for anybody. Self-love and love, like, yeah.

[01:26:16] Toliy: And especially when you have a world that it's like everyone's out to get their own, right. The world doesn't have that same compassion versus a person who like is, is not after to get something out of you. You know? Like, oh, like, like Elder is not after to get something from, from Harris, right? Mm-hmm.

[01:26:32] Yeah. But the person that gives them that car lease, oh, they're gonna take them deep. Oh yeah. But that's also the person that, that's nothing that, that, you know, offers them. I don't know that loan for that high interest rate. Yeah, but that's not, that's not 

[01:26:46] Mike: real pain though. Well, well that's the be beginning of it.

[01:26:48] No, no, but totally is 

[01:26:49] Eldar: describing it that yeah. I agree with him. That's maybe how it's gonna, that the, the world is gonna take a deep, take him deep. Yeah. The 

[01:26:54] Mike: world will take you as deep as possible. Mm-hmm. But whenever possible, but nothing's gonna take him as deep as our relationship. Yes, it can. There's nothing out there that takes you anywhere.

[01:27:03] Nothing can cause 

[01:27:03] Katherine: you that without Mike's experience. He speaking from through experience. 

[01:27:06] Mike: Yeah. I, I'll pay, I'll pay 800% interest. No problem. Yeah. I was just, lemme have like, that car is 

[01:27:11] Eldar: nothing, but that's of it though too. No, I know. I'm not 

[01:27:14] Mike: like, you know, like, uh, making a joke. But yeah, part of, part of it, it's for sure that like love and the toughness of relationships and being a retard in a relationship 

[01:27:25] Yeah.

[01:27:26] Is the worst pain you're ever gonna, again, everybody is going, moving towards that, getting to that like. That level, 

[01:27:35] Katherine: that plane. 

[01:27:36] Mike: Yeah, because I think we gravitate towards it. Everybody wants to be happy and wants to share the happiness and, and be in love and share that with some of, some of us are not deserving of it, but some of us are not.

[01:27:48] But if you're gonna keep going towards it, it's gonna test you to find out who you are, what you actually about. You know, here it was like a, here's like a warmup where you can practice, you know, warm up for like maybe 20, 30 years, you know, or whatever it takes you to then to go face that. To face that to face, I don't want to say like face love is like a bad thing, but more so go test who you really are.

[01:28:13] What's your character? Are you about this life or are you gonna fold? You know, so. 

[01:28:20] Eldar: All right. Well babe, help us with some final thoughts on balance. Um. What'd you take away from this? 

[01:28:30] Katherine: This was a really great conversation. Obviously I can very, very, very much relate to it right now. Um,

[01:28:40] final words, it always catches me off guard. 'cause I like, I've agreed with so much of what you guys have said, I've expressed myself and at this point, like I'm not, come back to me. Maybe I, okay. 

[01:28:51] Eldar: I don't think about the takeaway. 

[01:28:53] Katherine: The takeaway 

[01:28:54] Eldar: for yourself, Mike, 

[01:28:56] Mike: about balance. Yeah. Everything that we talked about.

[01:29:01] Yeah. 

[01:29:03] No, I don't really have like, um, I have, I mean obviously I did, I completely agree with, with balance, you know, I think, yeah, that's, that's how it is, how you guys described it perfectly. But I also think. So I like double down on it is like everything's where it's supposed to be, you know? 

[01:29:19] Yeah. Lot. If you're not in balance a lot, 

[01:29:21] you don't not supposed to be imbalanced.

[01:29:23] There's no magic trick. There's no magic potion. Yeah. There's no magic. 

[01:29:26] Yeah. 

[01:29:26] You know, you can do, you can, maybe when you're young you can run from it, you know? Like, I'll get away three hours of sleep and I'll be all right. But eventually that catches up with you. Like, and it's also at what cost, you know? I think that's like the biggest factor is we don't, we don't know.

[01:29:41] But I do think there is an instruction manual. I think it's ob, you know, obviously think it's philosophy and I think early in life our parents might not have it to give it to us. Yeah. I think that's what's totally tough about, you know, 

[01:29:53] Eldar: but yeah, that's a good point. 

[01:29:55] Toliy: Uh, the instructional manual's out there totally like it's com, like it's comforting and it feels good to know that like there's a system in place to bring you home.

[01:30:04] Eldar: Wow. You know? So you give him props to God? 

[01:30:06] Toliy: Yeah. Wow. I guess he taught things through about, you know. Yeah. After. All right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so like, yeah. Like that, that part about it is, is good that like, hey, like I'm accepting that there's a system out there that like, hey, like, and I played either too much basketball or overexerted myself.

[01:30:23] Yeah. Okay. Well, there's like desire, you didn't pay attention, desire for more rest. There's like a Yeah. You know, a desire for this or like Yeah. Like it gives you that. Yeah. Like, it it gives 

[01:30:31] Eldar: you the opportunity Yeah. To 

[01:30:32] Toliy: balance yourself out. Yes. Whether 

[01:30:34] Eldar: or not you take it, you arrogant, dumb ass 

[01:30:36] Toliy: attached bastard that's on you.

[01:30:38] Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I like when, like, I'll, I'll never forget when, when I had that bad injury with my, my leg that day. Yeah. Once it happened. Allegedly. 

[01:30:47] Eldar: Allegedly. You did not, no. You didn't go to the doctor, you didn't check anything. You didn't take any X-rays, correct? Yes or no? Yes or no? Well, yes, allegedly.

[01:30:55] And you've been known, I don't know this if this is true, you've been known 

[01:30:57] Mike: to have psycho 

[01:30:58] Eldar: semantic. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Allegedly. 

[01:31:02] Toliy: All right. When I allegedly had that, that bad injury. Yes. Right. It it like when it happened, like aft like Yeah. At first it was bad, but like when it happened, like I was not surprised at all.

[01:31:15] Like, I almost knew this was like coming, coming, coming. You almost welcome it. Yeah. Yeah. Like it was almost like a, like a sigh of like relief almost. Because like I was in, um, so much like denial and trying to cheat the system of like trying to um, sneak by like yeah, sneak by with competitive na nature versus like physical, like reality.

[01:31:38] Reality of things. Yeah. So when it happened, it was just like. This was expected, like, like what's wrong with you when you're doing shit that you're not supposed to be doing? Yeah. Through like a gluttony, I guess, which is what a lot of competitive nature is, right? Yes. It's like a 

[01:31:50] Eldar: That's a good point, 

[01:31:51] Toliy: right?

[01:31:52] Like in, in, in that way, well, like, yeah, you're, you're supposed to get injured. You know? Like, that's like a, not like a, uh, absurd like, outcome at all, you know? Um, so, um, yeah, like that definitely set off like particular like, you know, alarms or thoughts, which eventually translated into like, I think like, you know, thinking and changing and like wanting to approach things a different way when you get the opportunity to, um, to, to get another crack at it, you 

[01:32:22] Eldar: know, and reflect, you finally reflected Yeah.

[01:32:24] And now you have a, yeah. You know, 

[01:32:25] Toliy: and like, um, yeah, like it definitely created like a thought of like, hey, like if you're gonna do this, like 

[01:32:31] Mike: do it right. 

[01:32:31] Toliy: Do it right. Like be, be actually in shape or actually have the ability like, yeah, maybe like. Like nutrition yourself correctly, like, get your rest, you know, feel good, and then enjoy yourself.

[01:32:43] Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, yeah. Injuries are part of it. Injuries happen. 

[01:32:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:47] Toliy: But, um, 

[01:32:50] Eldar: like certain things can be mitigated. 

[01:32:51] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:32:51] Eldar: For 

[01:32:52] Toliy: Yeah. Certain, certain things can, you know, and, um, yeah, like, oh yeah. So overall, back to like a, like, yeah, like to me it's, it, it feels good to know that like, there, there, there's a system out there that will like unconsciously bring you home.

[01:33:08] And I also have the o opportunity to bring myself home through thinking. So that, that to me to, to me is like a, a very happy thought. 

[01:33:18] Eldar: Yeah. For sure. Yeah, for sure. Uh, um, my final thoughts is the fact that, um, pain is not the ultimate teacher, despite the fact that it's a fucking teacher. Um, and we summon it.

[01:33:33] Through a lot of subconscious behavior, subconscious thinking, the way we, you know, blindly go into things, the way we live out our attachments and stuff like that. Then pain, the teacher of pain is gonna come knocking, whether you like it or not, it's a fucking pop, pop up quiz. That's what pain teacher is.

[01:33:52] If it just pops up and like, Hey, there's a quiz today. You're like, wait, I didn't study, but fuck you fucking did all this, all this wrongdoing. You are gonna fucking get it, whether you like it or not. Try your best. Yeah. You know? So take a guess. Yeah, yeah. Take a guess. Yeah, take a stab at it or whatever, you know, but you fucking deserve it because you moving incorrectly, so now you have to go through pain.

[01:34:13] Um, it's not the ultimate teacher, but it is a teacher and none nonetheless. And it's a fucking good one. 

[01:34:20] Toliy: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 thing. Just, just, just like a quick thing. No one when they got that pop quiz or that quiz. Right? Like, I wonder like how, like, were there any righteous kids out there that are like a hundred percent There was like, Hey, hey.

[01:34:34] Like, hey, like I didn't study for, I like, I didn't study. I messed up. I'm just gonna hand back my test and not fill in anything. Or like, does everybody still guess, you know? Yeah. Circle and answers. They be like, Hey, miss, uh, Williams, like mm-hmm. I didn't study for this. I kind of deserve like a zero on this.

[01:34:50] I'm just gonna hand you back my test. Yeah. I don't wanna waste your time and my time. Yeah. Like, how many people did that versus like, you know, all of us are like, okay, like we didn't study, like, we're still gonna take guesses or try to cheat. Right. Or like try to circle some something, right? Yes. Yeah. I definitely do.

[01:35:03] Yeah, I did too. Yeah, I did too. But the, yeah, the right thing at tattoo would've been like, yep, I fucked up. Gonna hand the shit. Yes. Take take the L. 

[01:35:11] Mike: Yes. 

[01:35:12] Toliy: Would, would you have benefited, right? 

[01:35:14] Eldar: Yeah, you probably would. With the honesty. Yeah. Sorry. 

[01:35:16] But yeah. 

[01:35:17] But yeah, so what I'm saying is that. You know, the te the, the pain teacher is, is there, it's readily available to us.

[01:35:24] And a lot of us learn through pain. You know, we're gonna continue to try to, I mean, learn through pain whether we like it or not, you know, and pain has to be as acute, as hard, uh, and, and as persistent as it needs to be in order to get to, you know, for you to open that door finally so you can wake up, you know?

[01:35:46] However, that's not the only answer. The other answer is that if you listen to this podcast is clear, what totally talked about what we all talked about is that there's a clear balance that is naturally, it's a natural gravitational force that's been installed in us, and this is the way we are as people.

[01:35:59] And if we tune in into that, I think we can mitigate some of that pain and we can say that, you know what? I don't wanna learn through pain. I want to learn through observing this, this phenomenon about ourselves, about reality. And potentially figure this system out. And when we do, I think we could, you can strike certain balances in life where we can actually, uh, be on the pleasure or experience happiness playing more than we have to experiencing the life's lessons.

[01:36:28] And, uh, in order to do that, I mean, yeah. Uh, philosophy is one of those avenues. You have to ask questions. You have to be curious as to figure out what the fuck is going on and why it's going on. You know what I mean? And this is that, that would be my advice for that. But nonetheless, everything is, I agree with you, Mike, is exactly where it's supposed to be, despite the fuck some motherfuckers are suffering, you know, in so many different ways.

[01:36:50] It, it, it's all for a reason. You know, I don't think God or whoever the creator of the system is got it wrong at all. Babe, what would you take away from this? 

[01:37:04] Katherine: Oops. 

[01:37:05] Eldar: You want me to start applying just random paint, paint to towards you so you kind of learn faster? 

[01:37:09] Katherine: No, I think I have a good amount happening.

[01:37:11] So 

[01:37:12] Eldar: on your own, I, I can start manufacturing it. 

[01:37:14] Katherine: No, I, I totally into that kind of stuff. I have like my own self-generated one here. There's one right here. I have plenty. No, 

[01:37:21] Eldar: you can feel that up. 

[01:37:24] Katherine: Fine. 

[01:37:27] Eldar: You're pretty good at generating your own pain. 

[01:37:29] Katherine: Yeah. Okay, good. I'm a professional. 

[01:37:30] Eldar: You are a professional.

[01:37:31] Yeah. Okay. 3D printer 

[01:37:32] Katherine: of pain. I'm a 3D printer of, of, of pain. 

[01:37:35] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. But the sickest part is we all eat the candy, but inside the candy it's all pain. Yeah. You know, we think we're doing something good. 

[01:37:44] Katherine: Yes. 

[01:37:44] Mike: Yeah. For ourselves and, and a lot, I mean, I think a lot of these guys, I think that 

[01:37:47] Katherine: just goes to show our ignorance though.

[01:37:50] It just goes to show how dumb we actually we are. You we're, you know? 

[01:37:53] Toliy: Correct. We're not very bright at all. We're not 

[01:37:55] Katherine: bright, you know, that's 

[01:37:56] Toliy: why like there's the reason why things in life are, are like. Much at first glance, they're, uh, in invisible. Yeah. Give us a movie we reference to end night, 

[01:38:04] Katherine: huh? Yeah.

[01:38:04] One more to, but preferably like if it's all prior to 2010 preferable. Thank 

[01:38:12] Mike: you guys.