195. Manipulation

When is it time to kick someone to the curb?

In this episode, Eldar and Toliy dive deep into the messy world of toxic manipulation, narcissism, and the art of setting boundaries. They challenge the popular notion of "cutting people off" and suggest a more strategic approach: positioning yourself so that other people’s "dumb" behavior can’t actually hurt you.

From the "Harris" hiring to Eldar’s cousin’s mid-life crisis at 30, we explore why we often feel like an "NPC" in our own lives and how to stop maintaining an identity that isn't actually yours.

Key Takeaways:

• The Attachment Trap: Why manipulation only works if you are attached to a specific, non-truth-based outcome.
• Giving "Leash" vs. Getting Abused: How to structure your life so you can allow people to be themselves without suffering the consequences.
• Earned Suffering: Understanding that your current position in life—no matter how painful—is necessary and earned.
• Starting Over at 30: Why feeling like you've "wasted 10 years" is a demoralizing lie and how to actually begin the "human" journey.
• Lizard Monkeys vs. Humans: The internal evolution required to stop acting on impulse and start acting on character.

The Most Insightful Moment:

"Man spends their whole life trying to become someone that they’re not, only to not be able to maintain the identity that they’ve been trying to show the whole time. The maintenance of trying to be someone you're not is bound to fail." — Toliy

Are you ready to stop being a "Lizard Monkey" and start building a life of character? Subscribe to the show and leave us a review if this episode helped you see your relationships more clearly.

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - we can even dissect it on our next episode. Submit your story using this form - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction: When to Let Go and When to Reconnect
• 5:55 Personal Experiences with Manipulation
• 11:33 The Challenge of Starting Over
• 28:28 The Power of Consistency and Trust
• 43:41 The Nature of Miracles and Tricks
• 46:36 The Power of Being Proven Wrong
• 1:00:46 The Role of Leadership and Influence
• 1:19:23 Final Thoughts and Invitation

Transcript

[00:00:00] Eldar: On this week's episode, when is it time to kick someone to the curb? And when should you allow people back in your life? And then if the person wants to come back into your life, we have a good example of that. Right? When do you let them back in? 

[00:00:13] Toliy: If this is what you want? Well, let's see it. If you're saying that and you want immediate impact and you want extremely fast change.

[00:00:20] Mm-hmm. And you have to trust. But the question is, how long can you trust? For a lot of these people, they all have the same thing in common When it comes time to, let's go. Action. Yeah. 

[00:00:31] Eldar: Nowhere to be found 

[00:00:32] Toliy: there. Nowhere to be found. 

[00:00:34] Eldar: I agree with you, man.

[00:00:42] All right. Totally. Mm-hmm. You probably heard of this word before. Maybe these two words combine together. Mm-hmm. Toxic manipulation. 

[00:00:51] Okay. Okay. 

[00:00:53] What comes to mind when, uh, when you hear those two words together? Toxic manipulation. Let's try to break it down because obviously a lot of people, you know, in society talk about, you know, uh, these types of relationships with their, they're toxic.

[00:01:05] They're people manipulating one, one another, uh, a frequent word that's being tossed around. A lot of you probably heard of this word, um, they're narcissists, right? Mm-hmm. Who manipulating this whole situation or relationship or whatever, right? So Joe came up with idea, or, or the question, uh, for today's topic, and obviously, we'll, we'll discuss, come some other things.

[00:01:26] Um, but he wants to know when is it time to kick someone to the curb, and when should you allow people back in your life? 

[00:01:33] Toliy: Yeah. I think that like, um, I don't know if there's just like a, uh, a, uh, general like rule like around it or like good way about it. I think it just depends on like one, like. What your capacity is as like a person.

[00:01:50] Mm-hmm. And then two, how much, like what kind of impact does it have on your life? You mean 

[00:01:55] Eldar: toxicity? 

[00:01:56] Toliy: Well, like, yeah, somebody. Okay. 

[00:02:00] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:02:01] Toliy: Because like you could be thinking that maybe they're like toxically, like, like they're manipulating a situation, but maybe like you're seeing multiple steps ahead and maybe like Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:02:16] You know, like maybe you're allowing a level of manipulation to get a different type of outcome. Correct. To like show it, show its face. Correct. For example, give 'em enough rope for them to hang themselves. 

[00:02:27] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, which means that maybe, for example, for Joe who's maybe a little bit more, uh, strict when it comes to setting boundaries, respect lines and stuff like that.

[00:02:37] Maybe he's more military, right? 

[00:02:39] Yeah. 

[00:02:39] Uh, if he sees certain levels of disrespect in the beginning, he maybe will cut it off right at the head right there. And then where me, for example, it's more of, uh, maybe I can use that, uh, those negative behaviors or whatever to teach a greater, a bigger lesson and maybe rehab the individual, for example.

[00:02:54] Toliy: Yeah. That, and maybe like, you're not viewing it as like you're being like, um, abused or like mm-hmm. Like maybe you're allowing manipulation to happen again to, to like that. But like, yeah. I'm sure if it was like affecting your day-to-day life in like a negative way 

[00:03:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:03:11] Toliy: Then you wouldn't be like doing 

[00:03:14] Eldar: that.

[00:03:14] Yeah. And also the person who's, who's maybe observing quote unquote this manipulation, is he, is he or she under the impression that there's actual manipulation's happening and they're a hundred percent certain of it, of it, like meaning like. Uh, how do you know that it's actually the, that person is actually manipulating in a toxic way.

[00:03:34] Right? How can you actually prove that? Because to manipulate something to almost say, they're like, I know exactly what I'm doing here. It's like a scientific experiment and I'm manipulating someone to get something out of them or whatever. Right. Like, they are aware of this. 

[00:03:47] Yeah. 

[00:03:47] Right. But a lot of times, at least when like maybe some wrongdoing happens in the friend circle or employee circle or whatever, I don't, I don't necessarily feel that these individuals are necessarily conscious about doing the wrong thing.

[00:04:01] Knowingly. Yeah. Let's just say, I don't think they just sit there like, okay, I'm gonna manipulate. Yeah. But they could be Yeah. Their rubbing their hands. Yeah. But they 

[00:04:08] Toliy: could be unconsciously like their, their, um, their natural being of who they are and how, and like how they act could be a manipulative one to get things that they want.

[00:04:19] Eldar: As a tool, you're saying? Yeah. Almost like they develop a habit. Yeah. It's 

[00:04:22] Toliy: just their way of doing things that they have grown like accustomed to or have been like taught or their, their behavioral way. Okay. 

[00:04:28] Eldar: So it, so then the next question is, alright if this, this is the way they are and they don't know any other way, because if they did, they probably would use it, right?

[00:04:37] Yeah. 

[00:04:37] Uh, what should you do and how should you act with these types of people? Joe says, right, he's asking the question very specifically, when is it time to kick someone to the curb? And when should you allow people back in your life if you are gonna allow them back your life? Yeah. I guess 

[00:04:52] Toliy: again, like to, to me, the kick someone to the curb thing only applies.

[00:04:56] Is it if like what they're doing is negatively affecting your like, uh, life, you know? Yeah. Like, I don't know what, what would be an example of that? Like, if that was happening, but like, yeah, like, I don't know, like if, if you were relying on someone to do something and they weren't able to do it, and that affects your day-to-day like life.

[00:05:17] Mm-hmm. You know. Um, and what does it mean to 

[00:05:20] Eldar: kick somebody to the curb? What do you mean? Like, well, to 

[00:05:22] Toliy: like, to tell 'em to ban them. Fuck off. To ban them. Yeah. I guess to like, to ban them or like remove them from this situation. Mm-hmm. You know? Um, but yeah. But if they're not, yeah. It, it would only have like kick them out.

[00:05:33] Yeah. Like, it would only have to be if like, you cannot sustain like a lot like you, you can no longer sustain their, be like their, their behaviors are affecting your life in a negative way and Yeah. And you can't go around that like that, that would to, to me have to be the, uh, scenario. But gimme an example.

[00:05:55] Have you 

[00:05:55] Eldar: ever kicked anybody out of your life for this kind of toxic, uh, manipulation? 'cause I can't even come up with, with a, an example for myself. 

[00:06:03] Toliy: Well, well, I can come up with you. With, with like a situation. 

[00:06:07] Eldar: Yeah. Well, yeah. But no, an example. Sure. But like an actual real life situation. Have you, have you yourself ever had to kick somebody to the curb?

[00:06:16] Toliy: Not in that kind of way. 

[00:06:18] Eldar: Me neither. I don't think I've ever, like did I, do you, do you think that I've ever come across an example where like I had to kick a person to the curb for like, some kind of wrongdoing manipulation? 

[00:06:28] Toliy: Mm. Not in that, not in that. Like, no, not, not in, like in that way. Like the 

[00:06:33] Eldar: people that came in, came in, went in my life, I almost feel like, uh, came on their own regard and went on their own regard, you know what I'm saying?

[00:06:43] On their own choice. Yeah. Like, I've never kicked anybody out like 

[00:06:46] Toliy: that. Yeah. But you've also never had, like, never had a scenario. I definitely was manipul. People try to manipulate me all the time. Well, everyone I think manipulates each other, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Like not in the societal ways though, where it's like that Yeah.

[00:06:59] Where it's like, you know. Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:00] Eldar: Like, 

[00:07:01] Toliy: you know, like they're trying to get ahead or get something for themselves. Mm-hmm. You know? Um, yeah, I think it would have to, the thing is I think that you structured your, your life at least to, um, like maintain. Certain levels of peace for yourself that people can't like, really like, manipulate or touch.

[00:07:23] Eldar: Hmm. 

[00:07:24] Toliy: So I think that, so I'm immune to it. Well, in, in the ways that you have things maybe set up now, but, um, you know, like, yeah, like there are examples of things that could happen where it could affect your life, I guess. And then you would have to remove someone from that situation. But a as currently set up, I, I don't see that.

[00:07:50] Eldar: You don't see that, 

[00:07:51] Toliy: you know? 

[00:07:53] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:07:54] Toliy: Yeah. Like if you have that kind of set up, then you can give people more of a leash. Yeah. Because you valued like development. Yeah. You know, but if you didn't have that, then No. Like, you couldn't like Yeah. You know, like. 

[00:08:09] Eldar: So I, I don't see a scenario, I can't picture a scenario in my head where like it has to be so blatant that I'm so stupid or ignorant completely, that this kind of thing comes across my desk and I'm being manipulated in a to, in a very toxic way.

[00:08:24] Right. Um, and I, and I don't do anything about it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think that I, I have maybe, maybe my preference at least is to position myself in such a way where I'm kind of okay with some of it, you know what I mean? Uh, I'd like to lose the battle to win the war. 

[00:08:42] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:08:43] Eldar: You know what I mean?

[00:08:44] Toliy: Yeah. Like the, the scenarios I think when that happens is maybe like in like a relationship where you either have, I dunno, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, and like one of the people, like one of the, like one of them is trying to manipulate like the other to, I don't know, to get maybe materialistic things or to get some levels of control.

[00:09:01] Mm-hmm. Um, but that usually also happens because the other person. Has a particular attachment to not like what's right and wrong, but like they want to be with the person, for example. Mm-hmm. So because they wanna be with that person, they're willing to oversee like many things that will lead to enabling and like allowing those kinds of behaviors to happen.

[00:09:24] So like that, that happens like I think relatively frequently, right? 

[00:09:29] Eldar: Yes. Like also like, isn't that okay, so then, so then the birth of manipulation or any type of toxicity in the relationship, let's just say right? Is comes from the fact that you have an attachment to something, to an outcome? 

[00:09:43] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:45] There has to be an attach, like there has to be something that's being overlooked to overlook something. It means that you need to want something that you're not wanting to jump over to, to, to actually see what's going on. 

[00:09:57] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:10:00] Yeah. So, okay. If you do ban someone, if you do kick someone out outta your life, because they were to, they were manipulating toxically.

[00:10:07] I mean, that just sounds like to be in that position. Right. I just feel like it's a very weak position. No. Yeah. But I think the majority of people are 

[00:10:14] Toliy: in weak positions 

[00:10:15] Eldar: where it's like, damn, yo, somebody was manipulating me, you know? And it was so toxic. Like now I gotta kick them out. And now I kind of like have to build myself back up because I was taken advantage of.

[00:10:25] Like, I never feel like that. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. No, but it's in general. No, I mean, I understand certain things happen and certain people maybe do this, do that, and it's a little conniving or whatnot. They're lying here and there sometimes, or they're not being honest and they don't do the right thing and all this other stuff, but that's regular shit, I think.

[00:10:42] Yeah. You know what I mean? That's part of life. Where it's like, I'd rather have the thick skin to be like, oh, this is what you were up to. I was completely oblivious to it. Everybody else saw it and then like it happened, and then like everybody else kind of held justice or held court in that, in that matter, right?

[00:10:58] Where it's like, yo, like this guy's a piece of shit, and like, you shouldn't let, let him be around you, kind of thing. You know what I mean? But I wasn't really hurt by it because I was oblivious, you know? 

[00:11:08] Toliy: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. 

[00:11:11] Eldar: Like I don't wanna stare at it and then keep getting hurt, keep getting hurt, keep getting hurt.

[00:11:15] No, but you couldn't be, you know what I'm saying? 

[00:11:17] Toliy: Like, no, but I don't think in those scenarios, like you're getting hurt in those scenarios. Like 

[00:11:24] Eldar: there's a choice to overlook something because of an attachment. 

[00:11:30] Yeah. Okay. I see. 

[00:11:33] Yeah. I mean, if you, yeah, then, then you're saying that you don't subject, if you don't wanna subject yourself to any type of manipulation, hold no attachments.

[00:11:41] If you have no attachments, nobody can touch you. 

[00:11:44] Toliy: Well, not, not that I like, if you don't have any attachments, it's, I think it's also a matter of like setting things up in a particular way where like, um, where you can, um, allow dumb people to be dumb. Mm-hmm. Whether it's intentional or not, for example. Yes.

[00:12:03] Right. Um, and that, and, and them being dumb doesn't really have a serious con consequence for you. Con There you go. You know? There you 

[00:12:11] Eldar: go. And I think that we re with the recent example that we had, right? Was that the situation you were thinking about? 

[00:12:17] Toliy: Yeah. Like, I, I could paint you an example there. Yeah.

[00:12:19] Yeah. What, yeah, go ahead. I don't know, like if, like, um, if we just said that like, you know, like when we hired, for example, Harris mm-hmm. And we just said, Hey, Harris is in charge of every, of like all sales going forward. 

[00:12:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:12:30] Toliy: Like in the position that he was in. 

[00:12:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:12:32] Toliy: And then like, we just went on vacation.

[00:12:34] Yeah. And we come back and like, yeah. Everything's on fire. Yeah. Okay. Like. That would be a crazy move just to put someone in charge of everything who's like not good at something. Yeah. Right. But we, what kind of position 

[00:12:46] Eldar: we would have to be loaded to do that. That's what I'm saying. 

[00:12:47] Toliy: Then the consequences would be like, I don't know, bankruptcy, like Yeah.

[00:12:51] Now people have no money. Like Yeah, no one can pay for any the bills. Yeah. Like that would be a life consequences where like, if that was realized then yeah, you, you, you would have to like ban that person. Yeah. Like from that. Because if there's a serious consequence here at play now mm-hmm. You know, um, but yeah.

[00:13:10] Like, but, but 

[00:13:10] Eldar: if you don't put yourself in that position, right? Yeah. You don't sell out for the vacation, for example, right? For like what you're talking about. Right. Well, well, 

[00:13:17] Toliy: well, no, that, that would be like, um, why, why would you make that mistake? Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, like that, that, that would be a really dumb thing.

[00:13:24] No, but in, in this, in the scenario was, was where there was like, sure there was consequences, but again, it's also like, it depends on the person. Like for example, if you have a, like a purely for-profit. Mindset. Yeah. First off, you would never make that hire to begin with. A hundred percent. Right? Like it's gone.

[00:13:42] Gone. Yeah. 

[00:13:43] Eldar: Right. Second off, you would not waste a year and a half to two years. Yeah. Uh, investing money Yeah. And your time Yeah. To try to build something. 

[00:13:51] Toliy: Yes. Right. So like that person that would have that crazy, like, I don't know, money or for-profit drive of like at all costs ways, like if they made that mistake to bring that kind of person in to begin with and give them that kind of responsibility, then like they're an, they're an idiot.

[00:14:07] Yeah. Um, so yeah, I feel like to get manipulated in that kind of way where it really, really affects your life, you have to be some level of dumb to, to begin with. Mm-hmm. Paired with like attachment. Having some kind of strong mm-hmm. Attachment to something usual, to something usually bad. Mm-hmm. Not related to truth.

[00:14:29] 'cause it can't be truth related. It has to be like a Okay, let's related thing, let's, 

[00:14:34] Eldar: let's, since Joe posed this question, let's play out Joe's scenario. We are dumb and we ended up doing what we did. 

[00:14:41] Yeah. 

[00:14:41] Right. The question is, at what point do you kick the person to the curve and what's the threshold of like, 

[00:14:47] alright, an enough is enough?

[00:14:53] Well, I mean, like,

[00:14:58] yeah, I think that like in the scenario,

[00:15:08] yeah. I don't know. I mean, like, what, what do you mean? Like, well, the question is right, like when do you have enough? Right. 

[00:15:18] Toliy: Well, if it doesn't affect your life, you never have enough. 

[00:15:20] Eldar: Really. You know what I'm saying? Like. When is it time to kick someone to the curb? And when should you allow people back in your life?

[00:15:28] Because, because you know, the follow up question after that is that, and then if the person wants to come back into your life, we have a good example of that. Yeah. Right. When do you let them back in? 

[00:15:39] Toliy: Well, I don't, like, I'm not even sure if there's like a let them back in. I think that like they let themselves in by doing like the right thing and showing like the right tr like traits and desires of again.

[00:15:51] Yeah. Yeah. Like whenever somebody wants to like learn, like, I, like again, we, we keep getting matched with like the same thing of like there's never anyone that wants to learn and has a, like a desire for development more than there is like a supply of it. Of, of it. This is true. So like if someone shows a desire to learn and develop and has a strong like drive, vigilant drive for that.

[00:16:17] Mm-hmm. I think they will always be welcome. 

[00:16:20] Eldar: Right. I agree with you. You know, but you almost saying that it's on that person to show that initiative. Should you be guiding that person towards that initiative should be telling him Like, because like he asked for example for you, right? Hey, what do I do kind of thing.

[00:16:32] Do, do you have that burden to kind of teach him other way or what to do and like, at least explain it because like people ask me like, yo, if you would, you let him back in? If he came back? Uh, I said, well, I think that the me and you agreed on this, right? Like, you would have to grind and do the plan for the next six months.

[00:16:50] Unpaid almost to show and pledge his way back in to show good characters, to show that character. And it's not about money because we can pay him if we wanted to, but it has to, it has to go where it's like, okay, now you're pledging, bro. Yeah. Like from the bottom. 

[00:17:03] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:17:04] Eldar: Right? 

[00:17:06] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean like, um, like you have to show character.

[00:17:09] Yeah. You have to show character, you have to show desire, you have to show some kind of like change in mindset or change in like. What you want. Right? Because like yeah. That, that will speak for itself and that will be like un undeniable. Undeniable. But yeah, other than that, like, like, you know, we put ourselves in a particular position to be able to, um, help, help people at like, again, like we don't have like unlimited help resources at all costs, if for anything.

[00:17:42] Mm-hmm. But I mean, we've always had the resources for to like add somebody to the team 

[00:17:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:17:48] Toliy: To help them. 

[00:17:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:17:49] Toliy: You know? 

[00:17:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:17:52] Toliy: So, like that, that's just the position that we're in. But yeah, like if you told us like, Hey, like we need to help 10 people right now. Yeah. Yeah. I'd probably be a, maybe a little bit too much and hard speak.

[00:18:02] Yeah, no, for sure. You know? Yeah. But, well, one at a time. We, we do our 

[00:18:07] Eldar: best. 

[00:18:07] Toliy: Yeah. If you have the ability and you have the resources and it can't really negatively affect you, then. Yeah. I don't view any kind of like toxic manipulation. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. But I do think from the outside looking in, it is difficult to see it.

[00:18:26] To see what we 

[00:18:26] Eldar: see. 

[00:18:27] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:18:27] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:18:28] Toliy: Yeah. Alright. Yeah. 'cause I could also see how Joe, for example, yes. Looks in and be like, yo, this is crazy fucked up. Yeah. Like, 

[00:18:37] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:18:37] Toliy: What's going on 

[00:18:38] Eldar: here? And he wants to naturally, as a friend, wants to protect us. Yeah. From something like that. For sure. And obviously Warren said the same thing too, like, yo fuck this guy, you know, kind of thing.

[00:18:46] Yeah. After he heard certain details. But like you said that they don't see the actual insight maybe of what our mission is. Maybe. You know? Yeah. And what, what actually transpired, because I don't think it was necessarily just, um, take, take, take and manipulating us kind of out of money. Let's just say 

[00:19:03] Toliy: No.

[00:19:04] Eldar: That's the least of our worries. No. 

[00:19:05] Toliy: Like, 'cause like we also knew Yeah. Like what we were signing up for. What we're signing up for. Yeah. It's not like we got bamboozled. Bamboozled. Yeah. No. We were trying to, to to help somebody, you know, go from a, from a penny to a, a quarter No, from, from, from a lizard monkey.

[00:19:21] Yeah. From a lizard monkey to a human. To to a human. Yeah. Like, we know what, what, what happens with that territory? Yeah. They could remain a lizard monkey. Yeah. By choice. You know? Um, 

[00:19:32] Eldar: so speaking of Lizo monkeys, we have another lizard monkeys listening right now. My cousin. Okay. Who's been struggling for some time now.

[00:19:41] Toliy: He's a lizard monkey. He's a lizard, right? Yeah. He's a lizard monkey. Yeah. 

[00:19:46] Eldar: Yeah. You know, he's like, yeah, Eldar, say something. You know, I, I need to hear something to change my stupid mind, you know? Um, what's going on with him? What do you think? What's your insight on it? What the fuck happened? He is like, ah, you know, now, you know, 10 years has passed when I was in my twenties, when I was 20 years old, you know, I thought I was gonna be on top of the world, you know, I'm gonna be the guy I'm gonna be as they call nowadays, him.

[00:20:14] You know, you probably heard of these statements, you know? Of course. Uh, what, what other, what are they call them again too. There's him or I'm that guy. Something else, some special shit, whatever. Right. He thought that Right. A main character. Main character, yes. That's another one. Not an NPC. Yeah. And now he's feeling like an NPC.

[00:20:30] Yeah. Right? Yeah. And he is like, what the fuck do I do now? Like, I wasted 10 years of my life. I committed all these mistakes. Right. Uh, he's regretting all the stuff that he is done, the way he was moving and the way he is. And now he's left with like this broken life, let's just say. 

[00:20:45] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:20:45] Eldar: And now he's like, fuck man.

[00:20:46] You know, like, now I gotta start over. What the fuck? But he's only 30 years old. 

[00:20:51] Toliy: Yeah. Uh, I was listening to a another, uh, podcast. Mm-hmm. And I felt like someone on there said like an interesting, uh, line, you know, um, that may, that, that may, may apply to this, but it also applies like in general to a lot of people.

[00:21:06] He was saying some quote, I don't know who who said it, but he says that like, man, that like man spends their whole life. Trying to become someone that they're not only to not be able to maintain the identity that they've been trying to like show the whole time or like be the whole time. 

[00:21:22] Eldar: Okay. Say that again.

[00:21:23] Toliy: Uh, um, I'm, I, I'm probably botching it like a little bit, but it was something along the lines of like, people try to be, um, who they're not. Yeah. Trying to be someone that they're not correct. Um, only to have like way too much trouble and difficulty to maintain that type of identity that they're not to begin with.

[00:21:43] Okay. So like it's bound to fail the, like, the maintenance of trying to be someone that you're not, that you're not Yeah. You 

[00:21:49] Eldar: know That's correct. Yeah. So they're trying 

[00:21:50] Toliy: to like, it, it, yeah. It's like be someone they're not, and also attain may maybe like skills or try to do things that they're not meant to kind of like do and 

[00:21:58] Eldar: for and, and, you know, if I understood him correctly when he was here for the, for the couple of months that he was here, he said he, he created this character.

[00:22:06] He was that guy, right? Yeah. The cool guy that like, you know, he wanted to act cool, he wanted to seem like he had money when he didn't, you know, like he bamboozled and, you know, lied maybe, uh, about some of his qualities. Yeah. Or some of his, you know, what he possessed to the girls or to people that he was running with, with his friends.

[00:22:25] Yeah. He always put up an image that everything is okay, you know what I mean? And like you said, over time, like you can't keep up with that character because it's not correct. No, it's not the right thing. 

[00:22:36] Toliy: No. Yeah. So, yeah, I feel like for, first off, I think, um, like no matter what someone thought 10 years ago or what that like, you can't, like, like how can you be upset about thinking that you were going to to to be something and you weren't it, but like, unless you agree that like, that was the correct prediction at that time, which I think now he probably agrees that it's not the correct mm-hmm.

[00:23:00] Prediction, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's like, I don't think that you could be angry. Like, like you could definitely be frustrated, maybe and upset as to where you are in life. But I think, um, uh, if, if you like sit on it and you think about it, I think that um, a lot of your progress can only start once you understand that the position that you're in is like super necessary and like earned.

[00:23:26] So therefore it's deserve. Deserve, you deserve, deserve the suffering. Yeah. Therefore, it's a correct position to be with. You're not at a place. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You're not just like this, you're going through 

[00:23:34] Eldar: a very specific stage. Yeah. You earn this Yeah. Outcome. 

[00:23:37] Toliy: Yeah. You're not this like unfortunate, like Umberto.

[00:23:40] Yeah. You know, 

[00:23:41] Eldar: I know they can't, they can't really see what I'm doing right now. But in, uh, in the light of, cause I'm gonna tuck my, uh, my, what's his name? My sweatpants inside the socks. Is that because you're him? Because, no, I'm gonna try to be, because right now, you know. Okay, nice. So, 'cause if you're listening and I think you are, I'm tucking my sweatpants inside my, uh, my socks.

[00:23:59] Nice. Yeah. So it'll remind me of you. 

[00:24:01] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. So like. First off. Yeah. I think one, like he is just getting started on this, he's extremely young. 

[00:24:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:09] Toliy: And I think that like, well, he doesn't feel that way. Well, he doesn't, he's 

[00:24:11] Eldar: like, shit, now I'm old. You know, supposed to have a family career. Kids already, what the fuck?

[00:24:15] You know, the thing is 

[00:24:16] Toliy: that, that like we, we, we spoke about this a while ago, and it's like we, you're developing and you're trying to like do things in your life and then you come to these kinds of realizations. You know, you often feel that like you were, you, you deserve some kind of like, good things to happen in your life because you feel that like you were doing, maybe like you were chipping away at something only to realize that like it was all a joke.

[00:24:42] You were chopping down the wrong tree completely. You know? Completely. But you still like exerted all that energy. You Yes. You still were doing work. Yeah. But you just weren't doing the right work. Yeah. So it's a bit demoralizing because of it. Yeah. So, yeah. As you get older and you, and you feel that like you're have to go back to the beginning.

[00:25:01] Yeah. Like. What the fuck? 

[00:25:02] Eldar: Um, yeah, it's hard because you've had all these attachments, you had all these things to look forward to and now you have you telling him or Mia I'm telling him like, yo, that whole plan was shit that was incorrect. And now that he's coming to those, to those terms, it hurts. Like, what else you got?

[00:25:18] Now you're naked. Yeah. Yeah. I think that like now it's like starting over. 

[00:25:24] Toliy: Yeah. But it's hard to start over when you're old already tired, which is the case for a lot of people. But I think oftentimes, but 

[00:25:33] Eldar: he's not even that tired. Right. Okay. Sure. Maybe he is a little bit tired, exhausted mentally, but, right.

[00:25:38] The good thing is right, he didn't make certain mistake and, and had a kid with a woman that he doesn't love, or married somebody he doesn't love. 

[00:25:46] Toliy: Yeah. But you're talking 

[00:25:47] Eldar: about like, she doesn't have responsibilities, like when it comes to family responsibilities where he has to pay, you know, for family.

[00:25:53] Toliy: Yeah. But he can't feel like. You, you can't feel the positives. No, but, but you, but you can't feel the negatives of them either then. 

[00:26:01] Eldar: Right. 

[00:26:02] Toliy: The challenge not 

[00:26:03] Eldar: you have to challenge those. No. But 

[00:26:04] Toliy: why do you think that he's feeling the negatives, those Well, 'cause he's 

[00:26:06] Eldar: saying that like, I, I supposed to have a career already and I was supposed to have a wife and kids for example.

[00:26:10] Right. Well, sure. Yeah. But the truth of the matter is, if you missed on that end, right. Let's just say he had a career and he was able to pay for that. Right. But he had that stupid girlfriend that he did before who used them, let's just say. Mm-hmm. Right? And he had a kid with her. Well then he's gonna be in the marriage.

[00:26:25] Sure. He might have a career, but the, and, but then he has a responsibility to pay for the family. Yeah. 

[00:26:30] Toliy: But you can, but he doesn't want to bet. Yeah. But it's difficult to ask somebody who's tired and, and a bit like mentally overwhelmed and like just Yeah, just overall tired from life to be grateful for what?

[00:26:41] Like, things that they don't have Yeah, yeah, yeah. For like mistakes they didn't make or maybe like be grateful for. Like, so 

[00:26:47] Eldar: what do you start, what do you, what do you suggest for him? What do you tell him? How do you, what is it like? It's gonna be like a motivational speech. What does it look like? The truth is, right, like to me, and I told him this right in text, I said, because whatever it is you experiencing is you earned it.

[00:27:08] Yeah. From the things that you were doing. You were violating yourself for many years and now this is a result of it. And a lot of times the result of it is like what people experience, depression, sadness, hopelessness, all those things, right? Yeah. I feel like, um, and that's a normal experience which you have to go through.

[00:27:27] You have to sit in your own shit right now, right? Think, think through, reflect, and then start to be like, okay, how can I fulfill myself a little bit with fun? Right? Uh, get to a place where you're not exhausted mentally, and then slowly start to build a new picture, which is a little bit closer to the truth.

[00:27:49] Toliy: Yeah. I mean, yeah. I feel like I, I think it's an interesting thing to like, 'cause like I, I, I also understand a bit may, maybe some ways of how it feels like to be in that kind of like, position. But I also think that like, when you're met with like, um, like people in that situation want something that's gonna have a major impact fast, that's just like universal.

[00:28:15] You're not gonna be like, Hey, like I know this is what's you happening. I think the best thing for you to do is go to the beach today and like, and relax. Yeah. And collect some rocks and see if you could find something. And the person's like, 

[00:28:23] Eldar: wait a whatcha are you talking about I'm about to die tomorrow.

[00:28:25] I need to get shit 

[00:28:25] Toliy: done. Yeah. They want like things fast. Yeah. So I think that like, to me, like an interesting challenge of like, if this is what you want, well let's see it, right? Mm-hmm. Because like what are you willing to do? Yeah. Well, yes. Right, because like then you're saying that like, if you're saying that and you want immediate impact and you want extremely fast change mm-hmm.

[00:28:46] And you have to trust. 

[00:28:48] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:28:49] Toliy: Right? 

[00:28:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:50] Toliy: But the question is how long can you trust for 

[00:28:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:54] Yeah. We talked about that 

[00:28:55] Toliy: before, 

[00:28:56] Eldar: right? Yeah. Especially blindly. 

[00:28:58] Toliy: Blindly. How long can you trust for Yeah. And oftentimes like the way that these people are asking these kinds of things, this is what they want. 

[00:29:06] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:29:06] Toliy: So I think it's like completely fine to meet, to meet, to meet them at that sec, uh, at, at that place. And it's like, okay, you want big change. You have to do exactly what I say. Mm-hmm. For as long as I say it. 

[00:29:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:18] Toliy: You okay with that? 

[00:29:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:21] Toliy: And if they say yes, okay, let's, let's do it. Yeah. Let, let's see. 

[00:29:25] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:29:25] Toliy: Right, because I bet you more times than not. They're gonna fall. People are gonna, they're, they're gonna find things that they're not gonna be able to just trust on. They're gonna want explanations. They're gonna want That's right. To understand. Okay. Well if you wanna understand that's a different school, then Yeah.

[00:29:38] Now we need to go to a different pace. Yeah. 

[00:29:40] Eldar: Right. You have to take these courses. 

[00:29:41] Toliy: Yes. You need to go at a little bit of a slower pace and you need to build yourself up. Mm-hmm. And you need to take a more and slow and steady like, uh, pace. 

[00:29:49] Eldar: But is this what ultimately it is then it's redefining our relationship with time.

[00:29:56] Well, 

[00:29:57] Toliy: yeah. But time always feels like it's our perception of it. Yeah. Yeah. The perception of time feels like it's against you when you've made so many, like maybe mistakes, but you also don't see how like a small period of time of good habits and like, of doing good things, how fast that can also change your whole perception of how fast it, like how long it takes to like, to do things.

[00:30:24] What, what I mean by that is that like, you could be like in the dumps. You could be like depressed, you could be feeling like hurt or down, whatever it is, but you, like, you have two weeks straight of like, you know, going to bed at a decent time, like eating relatively healthy. Mm-hmm. Taking care of like, like, you know, going to the gym.

[00:30:45] Yeah. Like taking care of your health. Basic stuff, like doing some philosophy. Yeah. Mixing all that kind of stuff. Two weeks of that, and you could be crazy surprised as to like 

[00:30:55] Eldar: Hmm. 

[00:30:56] Toliy: How fast things turn around. Mm-hmm. And now before you know it, well now you have opportunity. 

[00:31:02] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:02] Toliy: Because you have some legs to like stand on.

[00:31:04] Yeah. But you can't continue to try to like, like lift a house or rebuild a house from scratch when you have no legs to stand on to begin with. 

[00:31:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:13] Toliy: And when that, those things happen, those are just like failed like half-assed attempts of like people trying to rebuild their life or change things, but.

[00:31:23] Like, they don't even have, they, they don't have like the strength or the tools. Yeah. And you yourself know, I do know that 

[00:31:30] Eldar: even, even those two weeks, right. Sounds like, oh, two weeks doesn't sound so bad. Right. Like, what's two weeks in a row of doing healthy habits? Right. But you yourself know that like even those two weeks to some people a mountains Yeah.

[00:31:44] Including myself. Yeah. They're like, are you crazy? Yeah. They, to to to to fast. Yeah. A little bit. To exercise every day. To to read philosophy or do this. Right? Like that's a lot of work for some people. Yeah. Some people who are completely down on their, on their shit. Yeah. So what do you say just kick starting that alone?

[00:32:05] Yeah. It's like how many fucking, you know, motivational quotes have you have to read in order to get there. Yeah. 

[00:32:10] Toliy: Oftentimes it's like, okay, like you got nothing. Well, why not just waste two weeks doing this then if you don't believe in it, right? Yeah. Like. Your weeks are not important anyway now, right?

[00:32:21] Yeah. You don't like them anyway. Yeah. Well why don't you do this for two weeks, for example. Yeah. See how you feel before you know it. It'll be three weeks, four weeks. Now you feel like a whole new person in four weeks. So, um, 

[00:32:37] Eldar: it compounds very fast. But you know what? But you know what? I think that uh, yeah, I agree with you and I think the compounding thing is definitely a real thing and it definitely helps individual whose mind, whose mindset is set already.

[00:32:49] Yeah. But until to get there, to set the mind, to start the first day or the first hour, let's just say, is very difficult. It's more 

[00:32:58] Toliy: difficult than you think. Yeah. So then why don't you trust if it's so difficult? 

[00:33:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:33:03] Toliy: Just do as I say, what's the problem? You said you want change, right? 

[00:33:08] Eldar: You don't believe it because that person still, the person that got you there is still alive and well.

[00:33:13] Toliy: Yeah. Someone's like, Hey, I want a 360 in my life. Okay. I'm gonna give you things like, 

[00:33:20] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:33:20] Toliy: Uh, I'll like, we'll give you an exact list of step-by-step things to do. Yeah. You gonna do it? 

[00:33:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:33:27] Toliy: Well, why would you not do it then? Tell, tell 'em. Tell me what's the reason. Oh, you think otherwise? 

[00:33:34] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:33:35] Toliy: Well, if you think otherwise, then like, sounds like you don't really want to change, right?

[00:33:43] Eldar: Yeah. Uh, because it sounds like your ego and pride and your arrogance is still alive and well, right? If you can't take the steps yet. Right. Uh, the answer is obviously in, uh, either, I totally said trust or a certain level of 

[00:33:59] humility. But even to get there, I don't know. 

[00:34:07] Um, we talked about this before and I think that.

[00:34:11] Whatever action that you do, there has to be a reaction, right? And remember that we talked about there's a timeline baked in in every sin that we commit, right? Yeah. The timeline of then the reaction and the reaction is the depression, sadness, shame, whatever it is, you have to go through it. Can you speed up that process that if you did, if you committed 10 years of sinning against yourself, how can you wake up and say, you know what?

[00:34:45] In a month or two, I'm gonna be good. Maybe you need a still, maybe you need two years. Why don't you set, why don't we set him a realistic thing and say, because prepare for the next two, three years to to be in the mud, to be in shit. Why can't we just say that? Because that's realistic. Yeah. But the 

[00:35:01] Toliy: thing is that like, 

[00:35:02] Eldar: um, uh, you can't do anything but, uh, recharge yourself by playing video games because that's the only thing you like to do.

[00:35:09] Work mindlessly like an idiot, come back home and just play video games and recharge.

[00:35:16] Yeah. I also feel that like, 

[00:35:17] Toliy: um, it doesn't, it, it doesn't even work linearly like, like that. I feel like with actual sustained good habits and consistency mm-hmm. You can wipe out many years of bad habits in, not in like the same or more amounts of time, 

[00:35:36] Eldar: but just getting started is a fucking task as a chore.

[00:35:40] And it is because of the fact that that person, the arrogant person, still doesn't believe it. He's not willing to start. 

[00:35:49] You weren't willing to start for how long? Yeah, for a long time. Why? Yeah. 'cause I thought it was like a, uh, like not possible. There you go. 

[00:36:01] Not doable. There you go. And certain amount of time had to pass.

[00:36:06] You had to get to a certain level of maturity. You had to finally have something click that you'd be like, no, I got this. And then you start it and you're like, wait a second. It's easier than I fucking thought. 

[00:36:16] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:36:17] Eldar: But that's because you were mature at that point. To be able to see like that and think 

[00:36:20] Toliy: about how good of a feeling that that that like know the realization is, is that something is easier than you thought.

[00:36:26] Thought. Yes. Think about that. Like, yes. What? Like what? Like what's a better feeling than that? Than that? Yeah. 

[00:36:32] Eldar: And it's good for you, right? Yeah. Well, yeah. It's good and it's easier and it's easier than you thought. Like, no, but there's a specific mindset that has happened in the mind shift. You just have to explain what went into it, what goes into that.

[00:36:47] I think a lot of it has to do with a lot of time and a lot of suffering. 

[00:36:53] Toliy: Yeah. I, I mean, I definitely suffered for a long time. I definitely tried a lot of different things and definitely made a lot of different attempts on things. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Um.

[00:37:04] Eldar: You know, but, but there's some kind of formula 

[00:37:09] now in your head that is clicking, that is propelling you to behave the way you do. Yeah. 

[00:37:16] Toliy: I, I like, I may be like, 

[00:37:18] Eldar: what's clicking? 

[00:37:19] Toliy: I, I knew that Well, well, like when I started it, I knew that like, when needed to be, uh, like be it, be because, because it's a very interesting like, scenario, like when you first start or when you're thinking about doing this Right.

[00:37:32] Like make making a change. Right. It's like you are that person. Mm-hmm. You are that like dumb suffering, like Yeah. Person. Like you are that person and you are saying that you want to be someone else. Like that's what's happening, right? Yeah. You don't know you wanna be, you're unhealthy and you want to be healthy.

[00:37:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:50] Toliy: For example, those are very two distinct, different type type of people. Mm-hmm. That think differently, act differently, all of that. Yeah. I think I knew that, um. I needed to be a very particular way for a long enough amount of time mm-hmm. To defeat that person, to, to be able to overrule. Like, why?

[00:38:15] Because the, they're, how is that impossible? Like, like it's impossible to do it otherwise because like, you are that person, so if you want to be a different person, you need like a, like a gap of time. Mm-hmm. Right? Where like, you can overthrow like the, uh, yeah. 

[00:38:32] Eldar: The other one. 

[00:38:33] Toliy: The other one, you know, but the only way that's possible is with like consistency, which is, um, not possible to the other person.

[00:38:42] Yeah. So that, that's like the predicament of like, the unhealthy person doesn't feel like it's possible to be healthy for a long enough period of time, which is why they don't do it. Or like the mm-hmm. Like, right. Like they have their like reasons and like addictions, you know, um, but. Like, so, so, so, so, yeah, like you have to be consistent enough to be able to give yourself an opportunity to then like, think, because like you're like a crazed addict in that non-thinking period.

[00:39:10] And you need to like, um, to rehab yourself. Yeah. Because like you're addicted to something, you know, like, like it's like a, a drug addict, right? Like they have to go to treatment. There you go. And they have to like, go of that identity. They, they, yeah. They have to cleanse themselves of that. 

[00:39:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:30] Toliy: Um, so that they can then give themselves the ability to potentially make right decisions.

[00:39:36] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:36] Toliy: But like, they can't make right decisions in that addict mentality. Did you know that you were mental going, 

[00:39:41] Eldar: getting closer and closer to the finally actualizing this new identity? Um. Did you feel it, that you were kind of like, even though you were maybe stagnant, maybe you were relapsing and doing all the bad things to yourself, did you back in your mind that you knew that there was gonna be a time where you have to face yourself and finally get through it?

[00:40:01] Toliy: Well, yeah. And did you know that you would win? Well, well, like I, I'm in, in general, I have a forever mindset that, that like, um, I know that whatever I'm, what, whatever, like I'm thinking about in my mind, I know it's possible. Mm-hmm. Like I have an actual belief that like, I don't really know how right now.

[00:40:20] Yeah. Um, or exact, like exactly how, like I have an idea of like things Yeah. But obviously until I do them, that, that's really on only when I figure it out. But I know it's possible. And I, and I don't have like a, uh, I don't have any kind of defeated mindset 

[00:40:34] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:40:34] Toliy: On those things. And I know that with enough is, is that the key too?

[00:40:40] Yeah, I'm not sure. I know that like with enough like curiosity and like enough like development and like learn and, and, and learning, um, all of those things that I'm wanting are, is, is possible of like, change, you know, like, like I actually believe that even though I don't have an answer for it, like I actually believe that like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

[00:41:02] How did you develop 

[00:41:03] Eldar: this belief? Yeah, I don't know. Just the, the possibility belief. Right? He's, he's not saying that. You're not saying that. I'm not saying I have all the answers. I definitely don't. You're 

[00:41:14] Toliy: not 

[00:41:14] Eldar: saying that. No. 

[00:41:15] Toliy: But I know it's possible to final the answers correct. 

[00:41:18] Eldar: I know it's possible. How did you get to that point of conviction?

[00:41:21] Conviction of that type of strong conviction? Because that conviction alone prevents you from hopelessness, for example. Yeah. Right. It prevents you from, um. Blaming the world, blaming outside forces, blaming others. You have the ability to point the finger at yourself and say, we can do this. Like, I know it's on me.

[00:41:44] I know it can be done, it's possible, but I gotta get, I gotta get shit done. I gotta ask questions, I gotta learn, I gotta get shit moving. 

[00:41:52] Toliy: Yeah. I feel, yeah, I feel like now for me it's really easy e like easy to like believe that, because I felt like, um, like how many 

[00:42:01] Eldar: miracles did you have to see? Yeah. Uh, I was just gonna, 

[00:42:04] Toliy: yeah.

[00:42:04] It's, it's so crazy. I was gonna use that exact word that I've seen too many things that I've viewed at one point to be miracles. Mm-hmm. That I no longer believe are miracles, but they were once to me miracles. And when I saw those miracles happen, I'm like, wait, what's going on here? Like, so the, the limitations that I thought are limitations, like the, uh, the ceiling that I thought was a ceiling.

[00:42:30] Mm. There's actually another floor there. So if I was wrong about that limitation, what else was I wrong about here? Okay, so then, okay. Does I saw the magic happen? Yes. I had to see it to believe it. Yeah. I had to see it to believe it. And then, and then also believe that like, to a certain degree, eventually, I believe that it's not magic, that it's actually possible.

[00:42:53] But to me, I perceived it like my, my like very dumb self look. Look, looking at it, perceived it as magic. 

[00:43:03] Eldar: That is very interesting. Okay. 

[00:43:04] Toliy: Think about how, how, how do you feel if you thought something was like a superpower trick? 

[00:43:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:43:09] Toliy: Right? Like a magical thing. Yeah. And then you, and then you realize that it's not, yeah.

[00:43:16] How then, how then do you go about feeling? About, about life. 

[00:43:19] Eldar: Yeah. About life. There you go. That's your answer because you wanted the answer. This is it. So the answer is, is for him to see miracles, 

[00:43:28] he has to witness them be to be performed. Then he has to try a couple, 

[00:43:36] Toliy: right? Well, he has to believe that these things aren't possible eventually are not miracles.

[00:43:41] Yes. Yes. 

[00:43:41] Eldar: That they're not miracles, that they're normal things. Yeah. 

[00:43:43] Toliy: Because that are possible. What, what, what it is. It's funny because the, like the, the dumb part of you mm-hmm. Or like the, uh, the retarded part. Part of you. Yeah. Um, this miracle thing is a little bit of like, of like a trick. 

[00:43:57] Eldar: Hmm. 

[00:43:57] Toliy: Because the miracle thing is coming from the dumb person.

[00:44:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:44:02] Toliy: And they like it. Yeah. Like who, who doesn't like seeing a really good trick? Yeah. You know, or like a sup superpower. Yeah. You know? Um, so it's like a bit of a trick because that person kind of wants to see it, but he doesn't realize by seeing this enough and then doing things that he is actually setting up like the ego death on the back end.

[00:44:20] Mm. By like, like encouraging that kind of behavior. And you can't go around it because nobody. Everyone likes a good trick. Everybody does like a good trick, and because the, that person, the ego's calling it a trick to begin with. They're fascinated. They're fascinated. But, but then when there's, but what 

[00:44:44] Eldar: about, what about some stuff, like what you might be fascinated by or what you consider magic tricks that might be different for somebody else?

[00:44:51] Everyone has their own set of like, what's cool for them or what's not possible for them? What's magic to them? You know what I mean? Yeah. You might have had certain levels of understanding of these things, but somebody else might have a different level. You know, they might, 

[00:45:08] they might need bigger tricks.

[00:45:11] What's bigger tricks? You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, like what are bigger tricks, you know, that they need? What are they, you know, what do they need to see? You know? Hmm.

[00:45:31] They set the bar. That's the problem. Everyone has a different bar. Your ego sets the bar. Yeah. I think it's maybe really dependent 

[00:45:45] Toliy: on, well, your, your ego sets the bar, but it's not like the actual things that you want to see is non, is like, is, is, is universally not suffering and being happy. 

[00:45:59] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:46:00] Toliy: Right.

[00:46:00] Eldar: Okay. Yeah. Like that, 

[00:46:03] Toliy: that's universal. So if you can get to that feeling of like seeing that, seeing happiness or like seeing those kinds of things, um, 

[00:46:13] Eldar: how could, like, how could you not want to chase that? Mm-hmm.

[00:46:21] Alright, well that's, that's, that's whole thing. Like, for example, 

[00:46:23] Toliy: when someone like. That like I, I, I always had this, like in, in, in my life, some sometimes like a, like a detriment in, in any scenario. It doesn't have to be like, like a lit, like a literally. Mm-hmm. But it could be just very figuratively when someone tells me like, Hey, you are dead wrong.

[00:46:42] I can't refuse that kind of fight. Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:46:45] Toliy: Right. Yeah. So like when I met you Yeah. You told me I was dead wrong. 

[00:46:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:46:50] Toliy: In diff in many different types of ways. Yeah. And like that to me was like, you were forcing me into like a trick to to, to go see a trick. 

[00:46:58] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:59] Toliy: And I can't refute, like my, again, the ego side is like, what do you mean I'm dead wrong?

[00:47:04] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:47:05] Toliy: you're dead wrong. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Well, now we're gonna find out Yeah. Who's dead wrong, right? Yeah. Yeah. And like, I, it's sometimes like a, like a detriment, right? Mm-hmm. Where then I get into like a, uh, um, like a situation, right? Like I could never refuse that fight. 

[00:47:22] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. It's too 

[00:47:24] Toliy: juicy.

[00:47:25] Someone's telling you you're dead wrong. 

[00:47:27] Eldar: Mm-hmm. About this, this, this, this, and this. Yeah. 

[00:47:30] Toliy: You're not gonna fight this. Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:33] Toliy: And when I was, when you're told you're, you're dead wrong in many different types of ways, and you were proven to be dead wrong and you saw the magic. Yeah. Well, how could you then not stay and 

[00:47:44] Eldar: listen?

[00:47:46] This is true. This is true.

[00:47:57] This is also why like different 

[00:47:59] Toliy: forms, for example, of like propaganda or marketing. They're trying to tell you that you're dead wrong. 

[00:48:07] Eldar: Yeah. That their shit is the shit. 

[00:48:08] Toliy: Yeah. You need these Jordans, you need this watch, you need this, you need to look like this. Act like this. 

[00:48:15] Eldar: Put your socks inside your sweatpants.

[00:48:17] Toliy: Yeah. You need to be this alpha male mm-hmm. With this and that. 

[00:48:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:21] Toliy: Right. Yeah. They're telling you you're dead wrong. Mm-hmm. And you're glued to it. 'cause everybody like you, like people want what they like, can't have or they don't under like understand they want to figure it out. Yeah. And when someone is telling you that confidently you're gonna return every single time.

[00:48:40] Yeah. And if you're a bit arrogant and you, uh, have like some things you like Yeah. Like, I can't ever turn away that fight. Mm-hmm. Like e even now sometimes, you know, someone like tries to like, argue with me, even like my mom or like mm-hmm. Someone like, hey, like if, if I get like a whiff that like what they're saying is like, I'm completely off on this.

[00:49:02] Mm-hmm. Like, that's it. Yeah. Like, I, like I need to fight. 

[00:49:07] Eldar: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:11] Interesting. Because that's a crazy insult. So what would you suggest for him though then? To find a mentor?

[00:49:21] Well, who has these tricks? Well, it's not even that. I think 

[00:49:24] Toliy: that like one, one, like for first off, like if I tell, 'cause I'm like, because you're dead wrong. Mm-hmm. For someone that wants to change, they have to say, no, I'm not. Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:39] Eldar: And they need to fight. They need to fight. They need to put up a 

[00:49:41] fight.

[00:49:42] They need to argue. 

[00:49:42] Yeah. Mm-hmm. And then you'll be able to see the true thing always.

[00:49:55] Yeah. So once like I got 

[00:49:57] Toliy: challenged enough in those kinds of ways. It definitely crept up that, that slow shadow of a doubt that kept getting like larger and larger. Bigger and bigger. Yeah. That I was wrong and wrong and wrong and wrong about more and more things. 

[00:50:10] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:11] Toliy: And then it became a normalcy about, like, it became very normal to be wrong about things.

[00:50:19] Eldar: So, which is a power. Well, 

[00:50:23] Toliy: like yeah, if you can, if you can like accept part of that. If you can accept the fact 

[00:50:27] Eldar: that we are a lot of times are ignorant and we can have the ability to then learn, but it's okay to be ignorant. It's okay to be wrong, but ask questions and then go on the journey of learning.

[00:50:36] Yeah. You build, that's how you build yourself, but you have to have enough humility. 

[00:50:42] Toliy: But still, um, yeah, like, like, like while, while he was here, Harris might have called you the prophet. Mm-hmm. You know? 

[00:50:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:52] Toliy: And I was asking you if you were a prophet mm-hmm. Many, uh, years ago, if you remember. Yeah, yeah. You know, and you tell, and you said no.

[00:50:59] You just like, like this is just basic things. Like what? What are you talking about? 

[00:51:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:04] Toliy: You know? 

[00:51:04] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:51:08] Toliy: But to someone else. Yeah. That, that, that's how it's like, that's all, it feels like it's magic, like in hu, like this is not human traits or behaviors, like having control of things, like being able to do like right.

[00:51:22] Things for yourself, for others. Like making the right moves. Like behaving sort the way. Yeah. Yeah. Like consistently doing that over and over again. 

[00:51:31] Eldar: It's like

[00:51:37] even some people 

[00:51:38] Toliy: wanted you to intentionally fail, right? Just to prove that you can bleed. Yeah. You know? Yeah, for sure. Why is that? 

[00:51:46] Eldar: Yeah. You know? Yeah. Those are always cool, you know? Yeah.

[00:51:59] It's like in those like 

[00:52:00] Toliy: Greek Roman times, like, does he bleed? You know, like, yeah. Like they, yeah, like, like in that movie, uh, um, the Achilles mo movie, you know? Mm-hmm. He won every battle every time. Mm-hmm. Like, they, they even like didn't even know, like, does he even bleed? Like, 

[00:52:18] Eldar: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:52:20] Toliy: You know?

[00:52:23] Eldar: Yeah. You guys like to make those, um, 

[00:52:26] remarks or those like, oh yeah, Elba elder's not suffering from that, or Elder doesn't have this problem, you know, this and that. Or he, you know, we're the only ones who's sharing it or whatever. Yeah. 

[00:52:34] You know, 

[00:52:36] but, Hmm. So what, what does he need a prophet to 

[00:52:43] crap on his face?

[00:52:47] A crap in his mouth. Yeah. He needs a crap. Or like Harris would say, 

[00:52:50] Toliy: yeah, you know. Can you imagine someone explain to someone, they're like, Hey, like if, if you wanna your life, this person needs to shit in your mouth. Yeah. If your shit's real fucked up. 

[00:53:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:04] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:53:05] Eldar: You need to get shitted on, but that's what it is ultimately.

[00:53:08] Right? Yeah. You need to get shitted on. Yeah. You know, and in the metaphorical way where it's like, if you, under this impression, if this impression is not serving you and you are not happy and you arrogant and you prideful and all this other stuff, somebody's gotta come in and it's gotta dismantle all your arguments Yeah.

[00:53:24] Shit on you or shit on them. 

[00:53:25] Yeah. 

[00:53:26] You know? 

[00:53:27] Um, without, yeah. Without these conversations, without a close, uh, hand to hand combat almost. Right? Yeah. With these arguments, how do you do it? That's why when Cus was here and he was under our supervision, he was bringing this stuff out. He was like getting aggy or he was wanting to fight, you know?

[00:53:49] Yeah. And we challenged him. 

[00:53:50] Yeah. 

[00:53:51] You know, and obviously when he felt it, he was like, oh wow. Like, you know, he was getting more ideas, more things, and he was bringing stuff out, you know? And I definitely was feeling better. 

[00:54:01] Toliy: Yeah. I mean, the over time, think about that disparity when he first Yeah. Uh, was here.

[00:54:05] He said, I, I don't wanna talk on the podcast. Like mm-hmm. He wanted no nothing to do with it. Yeah. You know? He couldn't wait until it was over. Yeah. To the very end. He couldn't wait until it was happening. Yeah. It happening. That's a pretty black and white change. Change. 

[00:54:20] Eldar: Yeah. You know? But he understood and he actually felt that this was very relevant.

[00:54:23] Yeah. And that was what like co uh, two months, couple of months. Couple of months. Yeah. So several weeks, you know, podcast every 

[00:54:31] Friday. 

[00:54:32] Toliy: Yeah. Imagine like a, uh, yeah. 

[00:54:37] Eldar: But what are we actually saying here? Is this just a cult? Are we saying anything tangible? Well, I mean, we are saying tangible things like the, the things that have huge Im impact require trust.

[00:54:54] Mm-hmm. That's just a fact. Like yeah, but trust is dead. Well, 

[00:55:05] Toliy: I think that, don't think you could say that. I don't think, I don't, I don't think you did it through trust. No, but I'm s no, like fir first off, I, I, I don't believe in the trust method. 

[00:55:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:13] Toliy: But I also believe in the trust method for those people who want it.

[00:55:16] Yeah. I agree. Okay. 

[00:55:19] Eldar: Yeah. Tell me what to do. Yeah. But you know, that shit doesn't work. Yeah. You know, nobody laughs nobody has that kind of stamina to be able to withhold or withstand and actually follow instruc. Like, even, even like, 

[00:55:29] Toliy: like the, uh, go follow David Goggins. The, the, the end request from, like, from Harris.

[00:55:35] Like he, he asked for a trust situation. Right. Oh yeah. He was saying, Hey, I wanna change my whole life. Tell me what to do. Yeah, yeah. Tell me what to do. Yeah. Correct. You told him what to do. Yeah. And what'd he say 

[00:55:47] Eldar: to hell no. You trying to kill me? 

[00:55:49] That's 

[00:55:49] Toliy: not for 

[00:55:49] Eldar: me. Yeah. Well, I was trying to kill him though, to be honest.

[00:55:54] That was the truth. Right? Yeah. Like he just didn't know what part we were trying to kill. Yeah. You know, we're trying to kill off the wrong sides, you know, the ego death like you're talking 

[00:56:04] Toliy: about. Yeah. You know, the pride. So yeah. That to me was like, Hey, like shit's real bad. I want shit to be real good what I gotta do.

[00:56:11] Mm-hmm. Okay, here it is. 

[00:56:15] Eldar: Yeah. But those are like, you know, I don't know, those are like a movie scenarios, you know what I mean? I, those, those, those really don't exist, I think. 

[00:56:20] Toliy: No, I know, but I, I, I still think that they're valuable because like you, like when requested you have to Oh yeah. You provide them, have to take it 

[00:56:26] Eldar: for faith based value.

[00:56:27] I 

[00:56:27] Toliy: agree. 'cause I agree that, that, that part of that person that's asking for that 

[00:56:30] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:56:31] Toliy: They need to be. Cha challenge. Yeah. So much that they can't accept the challenge, therefore they can't request for that kind of stuff anymore, ever again. Correct. They can only go one route. Yeah. I agree with you with that.

[00:56:44] I agree. Because they're, they're convinced at that time. Yeah. That, Hey, I'll do whatever it takes. 

[00:56:52] Eldar: Okay. Let's see. Let's see if you do it. Yeah. You know? 

[00:56:55] Yeah. They didn't, he didn't even get to the point of actually seeing what, what was in it. Yeah. 

[00:57:03] It was like I called his bluff. 

[00:57:04] Yeah. That's all. That was all, all I had to do was throw some money at it.

[00:57:08] Yeah. You could have 

[00:57:08] Toliy: had no plans and you could have just said the hours. Yeah. Which is pretty much what, what, what happened. Yeah. And it was ready. That's it. Done it. It was done. 

[00:57:16] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:57:19] But his confessional was always like, I love coming here. 

[00:57:25] If you love coming here and you like what? Don't like what's out there. I'm giving you the opportunity to be here a little bit longer. 

[00:57:31] Yeah. 

[00:57:32] Why wouldn't you take it? 

[00:57:33] Yeah. 

[00:57:34] Toliy: Yeah. To not hear it out again. It, it, it proves the point more. Yeah. That you cannot 

[00:57:39] Eldar: trust.

[00:57:40] You cannot trust. 

[00:57:41] Toliy: No. And to me it's like if you actually want that quick change. Yeah. Let's see what kind of mental fortitude that you have. Yeah. To trust. Right. Action. Again, because think about it, you have to do consistently, so much. Right. Action. Which is what's going to be prescribed Yes. For you at that time.

[00:58:00] Yeah. That like, you have to basically go from like a 10 year everyday heroin addict to like eating like a lemongrass every day. Every day. 

[00:58:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:58:08] Toliy: You know? Yes. And the question is, can you do that? 

[00:58:13] Eldar: Yeah. Maybe. Let's see it. Let's see it. Yeah. Right. Sure. Maybe you'll follow it. Yeah.

[00:58:27] I don't know. I, I really don't know. I 

[00:58:29] don't, I don't, I don't know. I haven't come across anybody who has the, that ability, you know what I mean? I don't, ego egos don't follow egos don't trust egos. None of that shit. You know? Egos want 

[00:58:40] Toliy: to be egos. Yeah. But it's not about whether that works or not. It's about that.

[00:58:43] Like, I feel like that has to be surprised described. I agree. But when, 

[00:58:48] Eldar: when requested. Yeah. When requested for that. For that 'cause the person, 

[00:58:51] Toliy: the, the, the person believes that, Hey, if you only gave him that chance Yeah. If you only gave him that opportunity. Well, that's, if you only told them what to do Yeah.

[00:58:58] You'd do it. Yeah. Okay. He asked for it. Okay. And I, and I brought it out. Okay. So let's see it. Yeah. We'll tell you what to do. Yeah, that's right. Why not just do it then? Like if you're saying that? No, 

[00:59:10] Eldar: because what, what's always happened? But they never, but never, they never said that, uh, after my sentence that I said, I'm willing to do it and I'm willing to trust.

[00:59:18] There was a little asterisk at the bottom or at the top, and the asterisk says. Only if this condition, that condition, that condition. Well, that's the whole point. That condition. Well, that the whole point is that 

[00:59:27] Toliy: you're, you're like they're using very particular words. Yeah. They're saying like, Eldar Yeah, I'm ready to do whatever.

[00:59:33] Yeah. For 

[00:59:33] Eldar: example, yeah. Okay.

[00:59:40] You're ready to do whatever. Okay, 

[00:59:42] Toliy: well here's what you have to do. And then it ends up being, well, whatever, but not that. Mm-hmm. Well, whatever. But not that either. Is this 

[00:59:48] Eldar: your form of st of holding cause uh, accountable for certain things that we told him to do and he didn't do? 

[00:59:54] No. Okay. Just asking. No,

[01:00:03] I don't think he still has a star link. No. No. But he complains about internet a lot. Hmm. 

[01:00:11] Toliy: And I guess I don't think that he's calling you before making every decision. 

[01:00:18] Eldar: He's been pretty consistent with that. Yeah. Of not doing it. 

[01:00:22] Okay. Yeah.

[01:00:30] Toliy: And he does do a really good job of like staying in touch and asking lots questions. But then again, but 

[01:00:34] Eldar: then you again, right. What you're asking for is that for him to esteem us Right. To the degree of leadership, which go brings us to the next topic that you wanted to talk about. Well, right. Yeah. Like you, you, what you're asking for is like, look, you are gonna appoint me to be your leader and you're gonna assume the follower position and you're gonna do like, like a soldier.

[01:00:56] Be like a soldier. And you know, you give an orders, you do your orders. 

[01:01:00] Toliy: Yeah. Uh, yeah. Like the, like the military has a very specific structure. Structure. That's right. It's designed to box you in and to do, but do what you're told and shut your mouth. 

[01:01:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:01:17] Then you'll get the end result. Yeah. The product that they're looking for.

[01:01:21] Very simple. Very simple. 

[01:01:25] Toliy: And you do, and, and like you listen to who, like, you usually like li like listen to the person because they have, you know, some kind of rank or like us team in a particular way, right? Yeah. Or they're like, you know, they know their shit. They know their shit. They're, they're someone of like, importance in those realms, right?

[01:01:42] Yeah. Same way in like, again, in society, like people esteem, uh, people like Andrew t right? Yeah. Who think they have like, you know, all the money, the girls clothing, he talks from the side of his mouth. 

[01:01:55] Eldar: Like a retard. Yeah. And people look at him and they're like, what are they, like one of his, there's, there's no, there's not even 

[01:02:01] Toliy: an appeal 

[01:02:02] Eldar: there, bro.

[01:02:02] Toliy: What, what thing about this, one of his personas for years was that like, okay, like this is like someone that's like in Six Shape, super rich. Has all the girls, all the cars, all the clothing, watches, like everything. And they're deadly with their hands. And they're like this crazy sick fighter. Yeah. Champ, champion, like level fighter.

[01:02:23] Yeah. So they're like a, like a giga Chad. 

[01:02:26] Eldar: Yeah. What is this? He lost what? What is that? What? Giga Chad. Giga Chad. 

[01:02:31] Toliy: What is 

[01:02:31] Eldar: that? That's a song. Never heard about this. 

[01:02:32] Toliy: That's like a god. Well, giga, they, they, they have a picture of it. Like it's an actual character. Like, like it's an a ai manipulated picture, but it's supposed to be like the perfect like person.

[01:02:41] Okay. You know, it's a very funny picture. I dunno if you've seen it. Yeah, no, no. I'll show a very funny picture. Yeah. Um, cause Dely knows what it is. Giga Chad. Hundred percent Yo. Because Gig Chad. Yeah. Like they thought that he was that guy. He was him. 

[01:02:56] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Really? And then 

[01:02:57] Toliy: he, he just lost to a guy 

[01:02:59] Eldar: with two left feet.

[01:03:00] Do you think they needed him for him to lose to actually see it? A lot of people then be like, yo, he lost all his shit. Oh, no. That, 

[01:03:06] Toliy: that's like, again, like all a lot, bro. He's been a loser. Well, yeah, but that's in your eyes. Yeah. Like, but I'm saying to the people. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like

[01:03:19] it's a letdown. Yeah. It's crazy that that's why some people were questioning there. They were like, Hey, like, there's no way he would've taken this fight if he, if he thought he had any chance of losing. 

[01:03:29] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:29] Toliy: And him losing Yeah. Showed that he completely miscalculated everything. Calculated everything.

[01:03:35] What was going on here. Yes. Because with, without some crazy brainwashing sort of stuff like that, it's a huge pr like nightmare. Yeah. Like, yeah. You can't lose, like that's a, that like that Yeah. That, that, that just like, you can't be that guy and then lose. Yeah. Also, you lose to someone that it's like not a real boxer again, it's not like he lost a Canelo.

[01:03:56] Yeah. Yes. 

[01:03:58] Eldar: You know who was supposed to lose? Yeah. He lost to some weird guy. Punch. He lost a guy punch who was awful. 

[01:04:04] Toliy: Yeah. And was awful in the performance of beating him, but he was even more awful. Yeah. He got beat up. Yeah. He got beat up by someone. Terrible. So that whole allure of being this like deadly Yeah.

[01:04:16] Guy. Yeah. Like he's a nobody. Yeah. 

[01:04:21] Eldar: It's embarrassing. But 

[01:04:23] he, he's been embarrassing though. Like this is crazy. 

[01:04:25] Yeah, yeah. You 

[01:04:26] know. Um, so the, then he needs a leader. He needs to be able to esteem a leader or someone who can, he can, he can actually follow. Right. You, 

[01:04:39] Toliy: you haven't seen this picture. The, this is giga chat.

[01:04:43] No, this is like the famous picture. Really. No, I'm not, everyone knows this really cause 

[01:04:47] Eldar: knows this a 

[01:04:48] Toliy: hundred percent. 

[01:04:51] Eldar: It is a black and white picture. It's, this is an actual person, or no? Well, this is AI generated, 

[01:04:55] Toliy: like people were like trying to figure out is it AI or real person. Mm-hmm. But it was, it was deemed that it was a ai, what's supposed to be like the perfect like person.

[01:05:04] Mm. Okay. 

[01:05:04] Eldar: You know, so he is jacked. We gotta you gotta work out more. 

[01:05:08] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:05:08] Eldar: So, so like, um, yeah. Like you think, you think cos will esteem me more if I start taking creatine. Oh my God, he's got like 24 pack, 

[01:05:19] you 

[01:05:19] know? Yeah. 

[01:05:21] Toliy: So now it, it became like a meme thing. Mm-hmm. You know? 

[01:05:24] Eldar: Yeah. So, um, so does he need a, a person of leadership and the position of leadership for him to actually go and follow?

[01:05:37] Does he need a mentor? Well, I mean, I mean, I think everyone does. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[01:05:48] To to, to me. Does it need to come back? Well, I think he definitely needs to come back, but 

[01:05:57] Toliy: the, to, to me, a big, a big, it may, may, maybe even, like the most important part of having like a mentor or someone to do that is that it gives you the opportunity to bounce your dumb ass shit mm-hmm. Against their wall.

[01:06:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:14] Toliy: That will reject your bullshit. 

[01:06:16] Eldar: Your 

[01:06:16] Toliy: bullshit. Yeah. And like you at minimum need that. 

[01:06:20] Eldar: Yeah. And he says that like, uh, talking to my friends and my friends, like, they don't understand me. They're just saying I'm always sad. You know, those, all the shit, you know, 

[01:06:31] they don't understand it, obviously what he's going through,

[01:06:38] rightfully so. They shouldn't. He's not good at communicating, for example, you know? Yeah. 

[01:06:46] Toliy: You know, if you don't have at least that in your life, then like you will only continue to multiply on, on your dumb ass self. Yes. More and more. Mm-hmm. Because you don't have somebody that could keep you in check decade.

[01:07:02] Like Yeah. Challenge you at least. Yeah. Challenge you. That's what you need, is you need to be challenged, 

[01:07:10] Eldar: especially if you're getting your shit wrong. Yeah. All you need to go to school or you need to study, you need to read books. Are you doing that? Yeah. Are you watching some other idiots online who's telling you how to live and what to do and what their morning routine is?

[01:07:26] Toliy: Yeah. Tho those to, to a lot of people, those are their mentors and that's how they're learning. They're, they're learning through that like, and then they're gonna try to get the money, get the cars and Yeah. You know, do all this shit. 

[01:07:37] Eldar: Yeah. You know, should I, should I get a Lambo next time he comes? Should I, we have a Lambo.

[01:07:45] I might have to, 

[01:07:46] yeah. 

[01:07:46] Yeah. What color? 

[01:07:49] I don't know. Red, yellow, red. I mean, what's like, what's in right now? You have to tell me. I don't know. What does giga Chad, uh, drive? We could figure it out. Yellow might have a no no. Nowadays it's like pink and chill. Like you gotta be like half gay, half not, you know what I mean?

[01:08:03] You know what I'm saying? Or no? Yeah. Like you don't know whether like male, you like six, nine things, scenes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's gotta be like flamboyant. A little bit weird, 

[01:08:10] Toliy: I think. Yeah. I'm not sure of having a Lambos more in or just having like a driver is more in Okay. May, may, maybe just having a driver is in, but you get to abuse him a little bit.

[01:08:20] Yeah. In the gay way.

[01:08:24] Yeah. Um,

[01:08:29] no, but like, if he is continuously still asking, asking you stuff and going to you, like, I think there's a reason mm-hmm. For that. 

[01:08:39] Eldar: Well, I think that, I think that he, I think I'm that light at the very, very end of the tunnel when it's very dark and then he kind of remembers, yeah. Oh, I have a cousin who kind of thinks about this kind of shit.

[01:08:50] Yeah. He knows this stuff. Yeah. He's, you know, he showed me attention and stuff like that and helped me before. So I think he, he only does that with, but when, like, thinks may a little bit. Okay. Yeah. I don't think he thinks it through continuously, you know what I mean? No, no one does. No one does. 

[01:09:04] Toliy: It's, it's the trick.

[01:09:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:09:06] Toliy: It's the ultimate trick, you know, that we constantly shut off. Yeah. That's why you need enough consistent, good behaviors to give yourself the opportunity mm-hmm. To think and to build new, new, new, good things. But you can't do that without some type of base. Like, um,

[01:09:32] with like, without some type of like, um, like. You need persistency. You, you need to be resilient and you need to be persistent, 

[01:09:41] Eldar: but somebody's gotta be the hook for you though.

[01:09:46] You know what I'm saying? 

[01:09:48] Well, yeah. I, I, we talked about it and I said, Hey, someone, like, he asked me before, I was like, what do you think about Andrew t whatever? I'm like, yo, are you crazy? You know what I mean? I'm like, yo, if you're gonna read somebody, read somebody of like, of history, you know what I mean?

[01:10:00] Like, it was like esteem, like Jesus Buddha, uh, Socrates, like these are fucking, these are staples of our fucking, you know, forever history Gandhi, but you know what I mean? So's natural. You talk about Andrew Tate is a fucking, like, is a today loser? Tomorrow's gonna be forgotten. Yeah. 

[01:10:17] Toliy: But you know what I'm saying?

[01:10:18] Like, yeah. To, to you. But again, to people that want particular like material possessions or they have a perception that that person's life is great. Yeah, yeah. You know, he's today that he's relevant. Yeah. Like, yeah, like, yeah, like. If you watch some of the videos that like he's put out or like, like little like clips.

[01:10:35] Yeah. Like, this is what people want. They wanna walk into like that club with like, so I 

[01:10:40] Eldar: can't walk around like this. Like, I, I think, I think my, what's his name? My, my socks are overdue of change. Yeah. 

[01:10:45] Toliy: Like, you probably have to wear like velvet and like silk and Kashmir and like, you know, we have to turn Tommy into like a camel or something.

[01:10:54] Eldar: Yeah. You 

[01:10:54] Toliy: know, 

[01:10:55] Eldar: he has to be like a butler, right? What? He has to be like a, 

[01:10:58] A butler Tommy. Yeah. He has to 

[01:11:04] be like Abu from Aladin. Yeah. Or like a little, like a little monkey that just brings Sheridan around. Like brings Yeah. Like 

[01:11:10] Toliy: Alfred from, from Batman, you know, but Alfred was smart. 

[01:11:13] Eldar: Yeah. Fuck man. We gotta create like this thing, right?

[01:11:18] You think we should just create like this big 

[01:11:19] act?

[01:11:26] Like, all 

[01:11:26] right. We, we are on this thing to save our cousin, and we're gonna document this whole thing, you know, and we're gonna do it through the means of society's norms today. You know, we're buying a, a new car. We are setting up what, what else is the easiest theme? Gamers We buy the sickest computer.

[01:11:43] Sickest video card. Yeah. You know, what else can we do? What else does he like? 

[01:11:50] Toliy: Yeah. But like you, yeah. You probably have to do like a, like obnoxious shit. Like, we probably have to buy a bunch of like, like a 59 90 tis or what, whatever the top one is. Mm-hmm. And just start like throwing them into like the Patterson Falls, you know?

[01:12:02] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Today we're donating this graphics card to the, 

[01:12:05] Toliy: to, to 

[01:12:05] Eldar: nature. To nature. 

[01:12:06] Toliy: Yeah. Or like, you know, like we have to burn them and like 

[01:12:09] Eldar: create a scavenger hu where we can maybe vacuum seal them, put them like, ran in random places. Bury them on the ground. Yeah. And put locations, and then let people just go, go scavenge hunt for them.

[01:12:19] Yeah. Do stuff like this and videotape it and everybody's like screaming and yelling and happy. 

[01:12:26] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Like he, he, he's looking up to him again because he, he, he finds like the way that he's talking about life mm-hmm. Because again, like these people become popular for like one, the life that they're portraying that, that they have.

[01:12:40] Mm-hmm. Which nowadays with like AI and also like, just like, just being online, like you can post clips, but that clip is not the 24 hour day. Right? Yes. Yeah. No one posts a 24 hour day No. Of like, every day I'm gonna just film and document every single day. Yeah. And you get a real like, reality of everything.

[01:13:00] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:13:01] Toliy: You know? Um, so they're portraying life to be a very particular way and they're portraying moments of happiness. 

[01:13:11] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:13:13] Toliy: They're like, they're like, they also have like an un unlike, uh, like an unbreakable ar argument. Like, you're just not happy because you're poor. Well, like, whatcha gonna say up to, to, to, 

[01:13:24] Eldar: yeah.

[01:13:24] Toliy: Like you've never, like, if you've never been rich Yeah. And you're unhappy, you can't jump. How do you jump over that? Yeah. When like, whe whether you've been super materialistic or like, everyone has been either like super materialistic or like partially materialistic in different ways, right? Yeah. Grown up.

[01:13:43] Of course. Um, how do you jump over that person saying that? Like, you just don't get it because you're, you're, you're a peasant, you're poor and until you're rich Yeah. You're never gonna get it. Yeah. And he is like, I'm not. And then like, he, he'll, he like, he'll say like, I'm not talking about like you having a Rolex rich.

[01:13:59] Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm talking about like, you can wear a different, uh, Rolex every day. You could drive a different car every day. You have real estate in 30 different countries. Yeah. You know? Like, like, like that kind a rich, 

[01:14:13] Eldar: you have a $50 million car, car collection.

[01:14:20] Hmm. Okay, because we'll trick you into it.

[01:14:28] Just let us know when you wanna come by next so we can 

[01:14:31] get a Lambo or something or cyber truck. We'll get that. That would be nice. I know.

[01:14:43] All right. What, what? You have any more suggestions for him? Man? I don't know. It depends on what he wants. Hopefully we'll give him some food for thought. You know? Anything else you wanna address? Address or say? Um, regard What about leadership? 

[01:15:07] You know, you said so important. That's the end goal, right? You said?

[01:15:10] Toliy: Yeah. Well, I feel like that, that just like the, uh, may, may maybe not the end goal, like you said, but it's like the, uh, the, the, the, the byproduct of figuring it out. 

[01:15:21] Eldar: Mm-hmm. You know? So you took my argument. 

[01:15:24] Toliy: Yeah. Because like Yeah. It's the, the culmination and the byproduct of you being able to figure it out, whatever you're struggling with mm-hmm.

[01:15:32] You applying it into your daily life effortlessly, and you just living out that thing now and you no longer have to like, think about it or strive for it, or like, like you, you just are that thing now. So now you like mm-hmm. Are a natural, like a, like a leader now of that thing. Yeah. Because it's who you are.

[01:15:54] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Do you agree with that? 

[01:15:58] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:15:59] Eldar: You do. 

[01:16:00] I 

[01:16:00] do. Yeah. 

[01:16:01] You took you to take complete ownership of something, right? 

[01:16:07] Toliy: Like a leader doesn't have to try to be a leader. They, they just are who they are. And that is a leader, 

[01:16:14] Eldar: which is again, a paradoxical, organic thing. 

[01:16:17] Yeah, yeah.

[01:16:22] But the, the, the ignoramuses 

[01:16:24] that are out there, they don't have the ability to spot a leader because they're just being thrown like these little smoking mirrors of Andrew Tates. 

[01:16:34] Toliy: Well, they, they get, they, they get hooked on and they get thrown what they, what they value or what they think they value. What are they, what are they 

[01:16:42] Eldar: susceptible to?

[01:16:43] Toliy: Yeah. What kind of influence? Again, if you're about money and watches and cars. Okay. Yeah. Like this 

[01:16:50] Eldar: is that, like that is what you'll sub subscribe to.

[01:16:57] And it's, they, they have a really, um. 

[01:17:02] Toliy: Good grip on these people because these people are also really dumb. And they'll actually never get those cars and those watches and they'll mm-hmm. So they'll always, they'll always just pay you the subscription. They're, they're always gonna be like, forever hooked chasing it.

[01:17:14] Yeah. Because they're, they're, they're like chasing their own tail. They'll never be that guy. They're, they're too dumb. Because they're dumb enough to begin with. To follow. To follow, yeah. This right? Yeah. You think they're gonna create their own business and like, make a multimillion dollar em empire and be this alpha male?

[01:17:30] Mm-hmm. 

[01:17:32] Eldar: No chance. All right. Damn. You fucked everybody up, man. So what are your final thoughts?

[01:17:46] We started with what manipulation and we ended with it too, right? These influences 

[01:17:56] are manipulating toxically, manipulating these people in their minds. These vulnerable minds, 

[01:18:03] and they kinda have no choice in the matter because they're ignorant.

[01:18:10] So s has to unsubscribe from all the Yeah, all the bullshit.

[01:18:19] Hmm. Yeah. I just feel like s has to be persistent 

[01:18:23] Toliy: enough. That's the only thing that he needs to do, but I don't believe that he's that guy 

[01:18:31] Eldar: that he can do it. 

[01:18:32] Toliy: Yeah. Like what is he shown to be persistent enough 

[01:18:36] Eldar: in, in? Well, we don't know. We haven't really, we, we don't know each other like that, you know?

[01:18:42] Well, well, 

[01:18:42] Toliy: yeah. Like he needs to be persistent enough to like, he just had a bunch of outbursts. That's what, yeah. Yeah. You need to, you need to ask enough and do enough 

[01:18:53] Eldar: and be consistent enough.

[01:18:59] To like show that you're worthy of change. 

[01:19:01] Hmm. To prove to yourself and others 

[01:19:04] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:19:06] Eldar: That you are actually, you want to do it. 

[01:19:07] Toliy: Yeah. And, and a lot of these people, they all have the same thing in common. When it comes time to Let's go action. Yeah. 

[01:19:15] Eldar: Nowhere to be found. 

[01:19:16] They know where to be found.

[01:19:20] I agree with you, man. I don't even, I don't even think I have any final thoughts on this because my final thoughts are

[01:19:33] Yeah. If you need to come back, 

[01:19:35] if you need to, uh, rub yourself against people like us, because we can be the influence and we can challenge your nonsense and your bullshit, we can do that. 

[01:19:44] Not a problem, right? Yeah, not a problem. Come by again. Stay for another three months. Invitation's open. 

[01:19:54] And we'll do our best.

[01:19:56] That's our offer. That's what we can do. You know, if that's what you know, that's what you see, that's what you need, then that's on the table, right? 

[01:20:04] If not, yeah. You need to find a mentor probably. You know, all I totally said have to be consistent enough and trusting to do the right thing for yourself consistently and persistently.

[01:20:19] You know? That's it. Yeah. Alright, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Mm-hmm.