199. Confidence

What if your brain's sneaky "negative self-talk" is secretly eroding your confidence like a bad habit you can't quit—until you laugh it off out loud and surprise yourself with real wins? In this raw episode of Dennis Rox, hosts Mike, Eldar, and Toliy dissect the paradox of self-confidence: why chasing it directly backfires, how flawed reasoning creates endless "seesaw" battles, and the power of auditing your thoughts for lasting empowerment. From Mike's rock climbing breakthroughs to Toliy's take on desires blinding us from core fixes, uncover how virtue, honesty, and pausing the "autopilot lies" build unbreakable confidence as a natural byproduct.

Key takeaways include:

• Audit your inner dialogue: Negative self-talk erodes confidence—expose and laugh at it to reclaim control and sustain progress.
• Desires blind, virtues build: Excitement-driven goals ignore foundational flaws; align with timeless principles for infinite, authentic self-assurance.
• Ditch flawed equations: Insecure motives (e.g., losing weight for validation) poison efforts—focus on logical, truthful actions for effortless results.
• Embrace the paradox: True confidence isn't chased; it emerges from right thoughts, speech, and actions without direct pursuit.

The most insightful moment? Mike reveals: "I can't lie to myself. So again, if you don't lie, if you're honest and you give a hundred percent, it's a virtuous thing." This ties confidence to unshakeable virtue over fleeting tricks.

Struggling with self-doubt or wavering goals? Dive in for mindset growth that stick. Subscribe for weekly deep dives, drop a review if Mike's "auditor" epiphany hit home, share with someone battling inner critics!

But if confidence is virtue's byproduct, what happens when ego tricks you into "manufactured" wins? Next episode exposes the dark side...

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Chapters

• 0:00 Virtue vs. Fake Confidence: You Can’t Lie to Yourself
• 8:57 Wrong Correlations: Weight Loss, Relationships, and ‘Fake It Till You Make It’
• 25:33 Unlimited Confidence: Honesty, Virtue, and the Truth as a Foundation
• 37:19 he ‘mentally fat’ problem: fixing the poisoned equation first
• 46:26 Confidence as a byproduct: virtue, accountability, and the examined life
• 54:04 Ego vs. real confidence: what shows up in the micro-moments
• 1:02:36 Final thoughts: simple equation, hard fundamentals, and closing out

Transcript

[00:00:00] Mike: On this week's episode, I can't lie to myself. So again, if you don't lie, if you're honest 

[00:00:05] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:00:05] Mike: And you give a hundred percent, 

[00:00:06] Eldar: so you tied to virtue, 

[00:00:07] Mike: it's a virtuous thing. Yeah. 

[00:00:09] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:00:09] Mike: Yeah. I don't think you can draw confidence on anything other than virtues. You don't like, uh, set out to be confident by living a certain way or doing things certain way.

[00:00:17] You become, you become confident. Yeah. 

[00:00:19] Eldar: By not directly doing anything to get confident. 

[00:00:22] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:00:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:00:23] That's, 

[00:00:23] Mike: that's the 

[00:00:23] Eldar: paradox. 

[00:00:25] Mike: They look confident. Yeah. They have money, they have all the shit, whatever, you know, girls, whatever. 

[00:00:30] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:00:30] Mike: But when you see them in their actual moments, yeah. You can see that they're not, 

[00:00:35] Eldar: they're acting.

[00:00:42] All right guys. Tonight's episode is on confidence. Considering that we were almost 200 episodes in, that's a pretty good topic. Yeah. Right. I think, I mean, we definitely talk about confidence a lot, but I think in, in today's episode at least, so we tried to maybe work a little bit backwards, um, from, you know, the conversation we had recently when we were walking.

[00:01:06] I think it was an interesting one where you started with, uh, how come we have so much indecisiveness in us? 

[00:01:11] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:11] Eldar: You know, and a lot of times where that comes from is a lot of, um, setting goals that we wanna achieve for ourselves. And then, uh, maybe flip flopping on those goals. Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:21] Toliy: You 

[00:01:22] Eldar: know, one day you're motivated, you're, you know, confident in yourself, you set certain goals, you say certain things out loud.

[00:01:28] Right. And then, uh, next day comes, you know, when it's time to go and actually do 

[00:01:34] Toliy: mm-hmm. 

[00:01:35] Eldar: And act upon those words or those, you know, statements that you've made, you know where to be found. You're no longer the same person, right? Mm-hmm. You kind of und undecided on what you want do. Yeah. You constantly wishy-washy.

[00:01:46] You know, and I know that after having that conversation on, on decisiveness, uh, we linked it all back towards how that type of behavior or that type of approach towards yourself slowly erodes at your confidence. 

[00:01:59] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:00] Eldar: Right. Of being confident in yourself, in your own decision making, who you are as a person.

[00:02:05] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:02:06] Eldar: You know, long enough of doing this constantly, right. 

[00:02:08] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:09] Eldar: This behavior, and maybe you can help me describe this behavior a little bit more because you, you mentioned it as an example 

[00:02:13] Mike: Yep. 

[00:02:14] Eldar: That, uh, it chips away at any kind of like, you know, your own confidence 

[00:02:19] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:02:20] Eldar: Your own ability to make decisions, make the choices and stand behind them more on a consistent basis.

[00:02:26] So, yeah. So let's bring it back. Mike. Tell me some, some things that you were going through and what you're feeling. 

[00:02:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:02:31] Eldar: Why are you feeling them? And how do we get to a point where we linked it to confidence? 

[00:02:36] Mike: Yeah. Um, well, for me personally, the reason I, um, well the examples I had about indecisiveness 

[00:02:43] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[00:02:44] Mike: Is there's a lot of them, but it's not being decided on obviously a certain stance that I'd like to take, whether it's with my diet, with exercising mm-hmm. With losing weight, with smoking, with not smoking. Right. Um, those are like the big ones that, um, I think about. Um, and what happened was I decided I wanted to lose some weight 

[00:03:04] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[00:03:05] Mike: You know, a few months back. 

[00:03:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:03:07] Mike: And, um, um, I wasn't having success because I think it's maybe goes even further back than just, um, with the decision making, but the reasoning. Mm-hmm. Why we make the decisions that we make and then the reasons that we, we, the reasoning we use. 

[00:03:25] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:27] Mike: Usually it's flawed or it's incorrect or it's not solid enough to stand on.

[00:03:31] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:31] Mike: That leads us to indecisiveness, so. Um, 

[00:03:36] Eldar: tell me how that, that plays out in your head. 

[00:03:37] Mike: Sure. So let's say you're feeling insecure about something. 

[00:03:44] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:44] Mike: Right? And you wanna change something about yourself, about your appearance physically. Right. You wanna lose weight 

[00:03:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:03:50] Mike: To look better. To feel better, right?

[00:03:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:03:54] Mike: But it's not sustainable. I think, I personally think it's mm-hmm. Very hard to sustain that because you are trying to solve the problem of insecurity 

[00:04:05] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:04:06] Mike: With something that's not actual possible to do. 

[00:04:09] Eldar: Hmm. So the two are not correlated you, is what you're saying. Just because you're gonna lose weight doesn't mean that you're gonna be course not insecurity anymore.

[00:04:16] Mike: Yeah, of course. 

[00:04:16] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:04:16] Mike: It, 

[00:04:17] Eldar: it, 

[00:04:17] Mike: it, uh, it doesn't mean that they're correlated. Yeah. 

[00:04:19] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:04:20] Mike: But what happens is, um, 

[00:04:23] Eldar: but somebody believes it. 

[00:04:25] Mike: I think a lot of people believe it. Yeah. 

[00:04:26] Eldar: Well, in that moment, 

[00:04:27] Mike: I think you believe, oh, in that moment I believed it. Yeah. 

[00:04:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:04:29] Mike: But again, it's also like, there's a lot of factors here.

[00:04:32] It's like you get excited, right? Mm-hmm. You see something, you get excited for a moment. You want to do something, you wanna make a change. 

[00:04:37] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:37] Mike: Whatever it is that people wanna make a change, this one that just, you know, use the losing weight. 

[00:04:42] Eldar: Oh, think it's, it's pretty popular 

[00:04:43] Mike: one. Yeah. Pretty popular. 

[00:04:44] Eldar: A lot of people wanna lose weight, get fit, 

[00:04:46] Mike: whatever.

[00:04:46] Yeah. Yeah. So you get excited. That's, again, you are like, uh, making a decision in a dangerous state of mind. 

[00:04:55] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:57] Mike: And the decision then leads to non-rational thinking, you know, maybe setting unrealistic goals. 

[00:05:04] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:05] Mike: Right. Unrealistic way of achieving. Why are they unrealistic? Um, because we don't feel that's, it's like, it's hard to keep that same energy.

[00:05:20] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:20] Mike: Nobody feels like. 

[00:05:22] Eldar: Motivated 

[00:05:22] Mike: all the time when you're excited all the time. Nobody actually feels like that. Those are blips, you know? 

[00:05:26] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:05:27] Mike: But to draw from that 

[00:05:28] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:05:29] Mike: In certain things, again, 'cause it's not like black and white where it's like always. 

[00:05:33] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:34] Mike: I think you can draw energy from certain things consistently that are, some people 

[00:05:38] Eldar: read motivational quotes, 

[00:05:40] Mike: some people do.

[00:05:40] Yeah. 

[00:05:41] Eldar: Remember Nate used to write those down? 

[00:05:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:42] Eldar: Said, yo, let me write this down. 

[00:05:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:45] Eldar: To keep the motivation going. 

[00:05:46] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:46] Eldar: Right. Of course. 'cause like if you got excited, you're like, yo, this is a good idea. Let me do this. Instead of falling into the pit of, you know, ups and downs, right? Mm-hmm. Some people are like, oh, how do I get motivated?

[00:05:55] Let me put on some music. Let me read some quotes. 

[00:05:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:57] Eldar: You know, let me do this. But you're saying it's not sustainable? 

[00:06:00] Mike: I don't think it's sustainable. No. 

[00:06:01] Eldar: But the reason why it's not sustainable, you're saying is also because the two are not necessarily correlated. The reason why you wanna lose weight.

[00:06:07] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:07] Eldar: Right? The way you're feeling or whatever, to actually what needs to be done. 

[00:06:11] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:12] Eldar: The two are not correlated. 

[00:06:13] Mike: Yeah. They're not correlated. No. 

[00:06:15] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:06:16] Mike: Yeah. It's, that's, that's my belief is that they're not correlated, but. And that's why you don't have the success 

[00:06:22] Eldar: and that's why you don't have the success.

[00:06:23] Mike: Yeah. Okay. The whole thing, like from the start, it's like a cycle that's not, not sustainable. It's not, it's not sustainable, but it's also not logical. 

[00:06:31] Eldar: It's not logical, 

[00:06:31] Mike: and I think things are illogical, are not gonna be sustainable. 

[00:06:36] Eldar: So, okay. So then explain to me the internal conversation that you're having with yourself in those moments.

[00:06:41] Then. 

[00:06:42] Mike: In the moments of what? Of like, uh, 

[00:06:43] Eldar: remember you said like, Hey, now I come, okay. I decided to lose weight, and now I come to the restaurant and I'm like, well, I'm damn. I'm hungry. You know. Hungry. 

[00:06:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:49] Eldar: What do we do here? You know? 

[00:06:50] Mike: Yeah. What do you do here? 

[00:06:51] Eldar: So you have this internal 

[00:06:52] Mike: conflict. It's, it's a, it's a turmoil.

[00:06:54] I think. 

[00:06:54] Eldar: It's a turmoil. 

[00:06:55] Mike: It's a turmoil. But these are again, very simple things. 

[00:06:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:58] Mike: You know, like there's much more things I think that are, um, much more complicated that we don't take stances on, which are much more dangerous to our wellbeing. 

[00:07:10] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:10] Mike: And mental health. 

[00:07:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:11] Mike: But yeah, in this case, yeah.

[00:07:13] You come to the restaurant or you know, a lot of times you go to the gym, you got a crazy hunger. 

[00:07:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:18] Mike: Right. You eat a lot because you're hungry. Yeah. You overate, you ate too fast and you're like, yo, what the hell? Now I gained five pounds, you know? 

[00:07:27] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:28] Mike: The next day you wake up, you know, you are like, I gained five pounds.

[00:07:31] Shit is dead. You know? So it's that seesaw thing where 

[00:07:35] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:07:36] Mike: again, it's the whole thing, even looking at the weight is a flawed thinking. Yeah. Like the whole thinking is, everything is illogical here. 

[00:07:43] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:43] Mike: You know, looking at the scale, it's irrelevant, you know? Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:47] Eldar: But you already came to those conclusions, but how, like a lot of people obviously struggle with this, and if they listen to this, they're gonna say like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[00:07:53] Like, I look bad, I'm insecure, I wanna lose weight, leave me alone. 

[00:07:57] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:58] Eldar: Like you're saying that that's not the route, that's not like what's, what do you suggest? 

[00:08:02] Mike: Well, the suggestion, like I, I, I'm like, I'm always at a weight, right? Mm-hmm. Before I wanted to lose more weight. Yeah. I was in a good weight.

[00:08:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:10] Mike: I was happy with my weight. I overweight a little bit. 

[00:08:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:13] Mike: But it's not like a problem for me. I don't really 

[00:08:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:15] Mike: Have to get, lose weight for any like, uh. Let's just say health reason, right? 

[00:08:20] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:21] Mike: Which is something that's maybe much, much, I think health could be considered. Mm-hmm. More important than, uh, 

[00:08:27] Eldar: but not necessarily the reason why people lose weight most of the 

[00:08:30] Mike: time.

[00:08:30] Most of the time it's not. No. Okay. But, you know, that's kind of what kept me at a good weight and I didn't really care if I was losing or gaining, like, you know, I was kind of doing, living my life. Mm-hmm. It wasn't a focal point of like, what I was trying to achieve was to lose weight. 

[00:08:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:42] Mike: I was, felt healthy.

[00:08:43] I was, you know, exercising, I was dimming. Mm-hmm. I was eating good. 

[00:08:45] Eldar: This is after you probably lost a good amount 

[00:08:47] Mike: of weight already. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, yeah. After lost, 

[00:08:49] Eldar: I dunno, 40, 

[00:08:49] Mike: 50 

[00:08:50] Eldar: pounds 

[00:08:50] or 

[00:08:50] Mike: lost. Yeah. After I lost a good amount of weight. Yeah. And I was just like, whatever, maintaining or just living my life and I wasn't thinking about it.

[00:08:57] Um, obviously certain things now coming about that I want to implement in my life is like to get into a relationship, you know? Mm-hmm. But that old thinking is like, okay, well if I want to get into a relationship, I wanna feel confident. 

[00:09:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:08] Mike: You know? So you think about before like, oh 

[00:09:10] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:09:11] Mike: Like, uh, this is, I, I mean this is obviously bs, but when I was in my, in a relationship before I was skinnier.

[00:09:17] So you start correlating like, yo, when I was skinnier, I actually got more girls 

[00:09:20] Eldar: did better. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:09:21] Mike: So let me lose some weight to get some more girls, you know? Yeah. But the thing is that doesn't correlate. It's not, it just happened to be what happened. 

[00:09:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:28] Mike: But you weren't actually more confident.

[00:09:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:30] Mike: You know, or I wasn't more confident 

[00:09:31] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:09:32] Mike: When I was skinnier. Sure. You maybe feel a little bit Yeah. More confident. But the truth is, it's like you can't extract things that you can't extract things from. It doesn't exist there. It doesn't not, but what about 

[00:09:43] Eldar: the people that say, fake it till you make it?

[00:09:46] Mike: I don't think they ever make it. 

[00:09:50] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:09:50] Mike: You can, you can fake it till you make it, but then what are you, you're just a fake. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. I think the, you know, it's always like, it's gonna be always like, uh, we say this, I feel like a lot, and it's not the pigeon pose. Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:06] Eldar: Uh, 

[00:10:07] Mike: it's, oh, it's right.

[00:10:10] Right. Speech, uhhuh and then Right. Actions. 

[00:10:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:13] Mike: So anytime you have like that idea and it's not followed by that logic, 

[00:10:16] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:10:18] Mike: I feel like, um, you're gonna run into the problem, you know? So if the thought is, Hey, I wanna lose weight to get that. 

[00:10:26] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:26] Mike: And this is what you say to yourself. 

[00:10:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:29] Mike: The thinking is already coming out flawed.

[00:10:32] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:10:32] Mike: So 

[00:10:32] Eldar: it's 

[00:10:33] Mike: not logical proposition, what you're trying to say. 

[00:10:35] Eldar: I agree with you there. Sure. But then, then how do you structure this equation in such a way in order for you to actually succeed and finally maybe drop the identity of being fat, or being lazy, or being insecure or whatever it is. 

[00:10:45] Mike: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:45] How 

[00:10:45] Eldar: do you actually then correlate the right things in order to finally get on the journey? Mm-hmm. That you are locked in. 

[00:10:52] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:52] Eldar: And you don't waiver, you don't have indecisive thoughts or doubts about yourself. You just do. 

[00:10:59] Mike: Mm. Well, um. One, one area. I mean, a a about this one, I have to think about what you asked me with relation to the weight loss.

[00:11:09] Mm-hmm. But one area where I can speak about is the rock climbing. 

[00:11:15] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:15] Mike: Where I was telling you I became more confident. 

[00:11:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:18] Mike: And I'm able to extract like a goodness from it. 

[00:11:21] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:22] Mike: You know? Yeah. I'm enjoying myself. I feel proud of myself. 

[00:11:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:25] Mike: And I think pride and confidence. 

[00:11:27] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:28] Mike: There might be a correlation there.

[00:11:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:30] Mike: So in that scenario, you know, the negative self-talk 

[00:11:34] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:11:35] Mike: That was, that I was saying to myself. 

[00:11:37] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:39] Mike: Um, you calling me out on it, that helped obviously, you know. 

[00:11:43] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:11:43] Mike: Um, not allowing that to kind of, you know, first probably saying it out into the open, right? Mm-hmm. Letting you, letting people hear it around you.

[00:11:54] Eldar: Yeah. Your doubts and your 

[00:11:54] Mike: fears. Yeah, my doubts and my fears. Then. You somebody else challenging me, you know, you challenge me to like, hey, yeah, you can, you can do this. 

[00:12:02] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:02] Mike: Then having some success in that also helps. 

[00:12:05] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:12:05] Mike: You know, and, and this new thing that I'm trying to do is, and, uh, anytime that I do have these thoughts mm-hmm.

[00:12:11] That I now can say, Hey, I don't like these 

[00:12:14] Eldar: intrusive 

[00:12:15] Mike: thoughts. I don't want involve, I don't wanna be involved in this. 

[00:12:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:12:17] Mike: You know? Yeah. When I start to hear those, I'll laugh at it. Okay. And I'll laugh at it out loud so I can also share it with you. 

[00:12:23] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:24] Mike: So I can have a laugh at myself. Like, yo, this is funny.

[00:12:26] It's ridiculous. Yeah. Like, what are you saying? 

[00:12:27] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. No, I know. And you've been sharing that internal dialogue that is 

[00:12:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:12:31] Eldar: Self deprecating. 

[00:12:33] Mike: Yeah. So I think, yeah. You need an auditor. 

[00:12:37] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:38] Mike: You know, if you don't know how to order yourself. 

[00:12:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:12:40] Mike: Which is, you know, hard to do 

[00:12:42] Eldar: in the beginning.

[00:12:43] Mike: In the beginning, yeah. Um, you need an auditor for your, for your thinking because your thinking is, is old. 

[00:12:51] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:51] Mike: Your old mentality that you've been caring for. A lot of things we carry for many years. So you need to audit you the way the things that are structured in your mind, how the world works, how you work.

[00:13:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:04] Mike: You need to get that audited if you'd like to, you know? 

[00:13:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:08] Mike: So then somebody could tell you, Hey, you just said if A plus B equals C. 

[00:13:13] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:14] Mike: You didn't say that. You said it equals X. That does not make sense. Yeah. This is not the sequence. 

[00:13:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:18] Mike: But we correlate stuff because we process a lot of information 

[00:13:23] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[00:13:23] Mike: And we process it improperly. 

[00:13:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:26] Mike: You know, whether it's from childhood or adulthood or, because we get a lot of, we take in a lot of information 

[00:13:32] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:13:34] Mike: And we process it whichever way we wanna interpret it too. Sometimes you could see one message that's being shown 

[00:13:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:40] Mike: Uh, out into the world, but we interpret it a completely different way.

[00:13:44] Eldar: Yep. 

[00:13:45] Mike: So I think that's, um, that's another factor. 

[00:13:49] Eldar: Okay. So what you're suggesting is pretty much in whatever endeavor that are people they getting self, getting themselves into find the right equation that actually works. 

[00:13:57] Mike: Yeah. Try to see like whatever theories you're saying to yourself. 

[00:14:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:14:01] Mike: Are they actually, do they make sense?

[00:14:03] Are they logically sound? 

[00:14:05] Eldar: Yeah. About yourself. 

[00:14:06] Mike: About yourself. Yeah. 

[00:14:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:14:08] Mike: You know, and I think, I'm not sure how you can, if you, if you, um, if you're locked into the equation That's correct. I don't know how you can waiver. 

[00:14:20] Eldar: Mm-hmm. So now that you've experienced this in the rock climbing 

[00:14:24] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:14:25] Eldar: Right.

[00:14:25] Obviously, like you said, Hey, look, I'm, I'm not ordering myself. I'm you auditing me. 

[00:14:29] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:14:29] Eldar: And you're experiencing much better self. Yeah. And you're accomplishing certain things and you've given it your all right. 

[00:14:35] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:36] Eldar: Uh, the results speak for themselves. Mm-hmm. You said. Number one, I'm accomplishing the things that I used to not accomplish.

[00:14:41] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:14:42] Eldar: Right. You trying harder, you're giving your all. 

[00:14:44] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:44] Eldar: Right. And a result is what the result is, that you're happy with yourself. Yeah. Because you no longer are paying attention to, to the negative self-talk. 

[00:14:52] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:53] Eldar: And you are actually going forward. 

[00:14:54] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:55] Eldar: Right? 

[00:14:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:14:56] Eldar: And in turn, because you getting success and now you seeing that you can replicate the success and after repetition, you start becoming confident.

[00:15:03] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:15:05] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Versus for many years you had negative self-talk 

[00:15:10] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:15:11] Eldar: Which was eroding 

[00:15:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:15:14] Eldar: Self-confidence. 

[00:15:15] Mike: Correct. 

[00:15:16] Eldar: Without even knowing. Without even knowing. Yeah. And that's, that's a huge factor that a lot of us go around life and having negative self-talk without even understanding or knowing that, uh, we're doing it.

[00:15:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:15:27] Eldar: You know? Yeah. That we probably, you 

[00:15:32] Mike: know, from my own experience, we probably don't give enough credit to those, to those moments where we have that. Internal dialogue like, Hey, I'll do this tomorrow, like today dead. 

[00:15:42] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:43] Mike: I'll do it tomorrow. Or I'll quit smoking tomorrow, I'll quit drinking tomorrow, change my diet tomorrow, or, 

[00:15:47] Eldar: yeah, 

[00:15:48] Mike: I'll be better to my kids tomorrow.

[00:15:49] I'll be better to whatever tomorrow. Right. All these millions of things 

[00:15:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:15:53] Mike: That we have undecided stances on, we don't typically pay attention to, to 

[00:15:58] Eldar: those things. 

[00:15:59] Mike: Um, and I think there's a lot of reasons for it. 

[00:16:02] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:04] Mike: Because maybe we didn't, we, I, I mean, it's hard to understand how to properly think or how to properly reason.

[00:16:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:16:13] Mike: And if you've never learned, it's very hard to just like, you know, randomly just pick it up. 

[00:16:18] Eldar: Yeah. I think that, uh, for the non-thinking, being at least Right. A person, the idea that you have a choice in the matter 

[00:16:27] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:16:28] Eldar: Is a crazy one. Right? Yes. Now you've realized I have a choice in the matter. 

[00:16:32] Mike: Yeah.

[00:16:32] Eldar: I come to that wall, that climbing wall, and I can either have these thoughts, I can have these thoughts, and the thoughts are gonna come. 

[00:16:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:39] Eldar: You just finally 

[00:16:41] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:16:41] Eldar: Right. Discovered for yourself that you'll have a choice in the matter. 

[00:16:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:16:44] Eldar: What do I choose and what do I not choose? Mm-hmm. And I think that's self-empowering and 

[00:16:48] Mike: Yeah.

[00:16:49] Eldar: Out of itself. Yeah. What do you think? Totally. 

[00:16:53] Toliy: Um, 

[00:16:54] Eldar: is Mike onto something or He is completely shooting in the dark? 

[00:16:58] Toliy: Yeah. I mean, like, there's um, a few things as, as you guys were talking that came to mind for, for me at least. Um, one, one of them, the, um, the, the idea of like desires, right? Desires are like, um, they're usually like, uh, forward progressing things or things that we don't currently have.

[00:17:22] Correct. 

[00:17:22] Eldar: Yeah. Or 

[00:17:23] Toliy: new things, you know, bigger, better things. 

[00:17:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:17:26] Toliy: Right. Um, and 

[00:17:29] Eldar: just a side note, Buddha said that all suffering comes from desire. 

[00:17:35] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:17:35] Eldar: Okay. Just as a side note. Yeah. 

[00:17:37] Toliy: So with, with desires, oftentimes there, you're, you're constantly in this, um, trans, if you wanna call it, of like trying to progress fo forward.

[00:17:48] But oftentimes I think pe people who do that, they, um, they ignore what's currently wrong. 

[00:17:56] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:17:56] Toliy: You know? 

[00:17:57] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:17:57] Toliy: Because like what's already there, like your foundation or like your core, I think that there are some like, issues with it. Um, okay. But the desires, they kind of blind you and they make it like, not as exciting to figure out like, well, what are you currently like Yeah.

[00:18:15] What do, what are you currently working with? What's your foundation like? That's 

[00:18:17] Eldar: interesting. 

[00:18:18] Toliy: Desires are always like, you know, when you're talking about being excited 

[00:18:21] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:18:22] Toliy: They're always an exciting thing. 

[00:18:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:23] Toliy: They're always 

[00:18:24] Eldar: blinding is what you're 

[00:18:24] Toliy: saying. They're, they're exciting. Yeah. And by making you exciting.

[00:18:27] Yes. They're blinding. Mm-hmm. And they, and, and what happens is that. You keep going forward, but because you don't address like your actual foundation, your actual core, you will always naturally gravity bring the garbage with you. Gravity. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But gravity will always bring you back. 

[00:18:42] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:43] Toliy: Because eventually what you'll have is too heavy of a situation, too heavy of scenario, too overwhelming of thoughts, too overwhelming of desires.

[00:18:53] And then you'll, you'll find your, your, your way back. And I, I think in general, what, what people do is that like they give themselves a reason as to why whatever happened ha happened. And they have either like an excuse for it or like they have a very good reason as to why it played out that way. And then they go back, you know, into figuring out mode again.

[00:19:12] And they keep doing this 

[00:19:14] and 

[00:19:14] Eldar: oftentimes Oh, so they're in a loop. 

[00:19:15] Toliy: Yeah. So it's a perpetual like loop of having desires and wanting things. 

[00:19:21] Eldar: Wow. 

[00:19:21] Toliy: But it's never addressed as to like, what are these actual is like fundamental is issues or like programming faults that you have that. Um, make you think the way you think or act the way that you act, 

[00:19:35] Eldar: you again, describe the mental health.

[00:19:37] Toliy: Yeah, so the, the, but, but the issue is that when you're excited or when you desire some something, like, there's only a, like, there, there's only a forward thinking mindset there. There's never like a, uh, like to to to, to see where you're at, to see what you have, to see, what you don't like. There's never that, 

[00:19:55] Mike: but the, the desire, it's like, um, it's a lifeline for the person who's like, ill, 

[00:20:02] Toliy: yes.

[00:20:02] Mike: So they can only like, they can only 

[00:20:05] Eldar: forward think 

[00:20:05] Mike: when your car is broke, you're not like, and you know how to fix it. You are like, not like, yeah, you know, let me slow down here and try to fucking fix this shit. You are like, fuck this, let me get a new car. And that's kind of like, yeah. With our, with our mind like, yo, I can't solve these problems.

[00:20:20] Let me just 

[00:20:22] Eldar: grab 

[00:20:22] Mike: onto somebody else. Yeah. Excitement, desire. It's a new car, it's a new, it's a new branch, you know, so. Yeah, I think that's kind of like, that's true where the mentality is. Yeah, 

[00:20:32] Eldar: that's 

[00:20:33] Toliy: true. Yeah. So I feel like that, um, and then, yeah, like you're gonna always land back in the same place because like, when you don't like, solve something fun, fundamentally you're, you're ought to get brought back there, you know?

[00:20:45] Yeah. Like, it only makes sense. It doesn't make sense for you just to like, not solve this thing, or not ignore it, but keep progressing forward. Like, 

[00:20:54] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:20:54] Toliy: Like who do you, who do you, who do you think you are? 

[00:20:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:57] Toliy: You're gonna just somehow get past something without actually doing it. 

[00:21:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:21:01] Toliy: You know? So like, yeah.

[00:21:02] I think that that's what like, continuously will happen to people up until they address those things. Um, so that was one thing. Um, I forgot what my other one was. I think 

[00:21:17] Eldar: well tie it back to confidence then. I agree with what you said. 

[00:21:21] Toliy: Yeah, I 

[00:21:21] Eldar: feel like, so you, you either develop right at the end of that desire if you do accomplish something, right?

[00:21:26] But you still have a big bag that you're carrying. You might develop some self of, some sense of false confidence. 

[00:21:33] Toliy: Well, yeah. I, I think most confidence, most confidence for most people, I think is a false self of con like, like false 

[00:21:41] Eldar: self-confidence. 

[00:21:42] Toliy: Self-confidence, yeah. Mm-hmm. Because it's based on, um, like ideologies or maybe like con conclusions that are not accurate.

[00:21:50] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:51] Toliy: But you only realize that once you, once you're actually faced to like, to do some, like, like one, once you're actually faced, it takes some kind of a action. That's when you realize you don't have like a leg to stand on on that. But to, to me it's like the, um, true, true confidence is when like the principles you have and the fundamentals you have and the.

[00:22:16] The basic success to how you go about things. When those things line line up, you're guaranteed confidence because you just keep, like withdrawing from a deposit bank that you have a ton of resources in. 

[00:22:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:27] Toliy: So you have like free confidence for forever. 

[00:22:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:31] Toliy: You know? Um, but when it's a false self, self-confidence, I think like false sense of, of, of, uh, of confidence, it's a limiting resource that that requires like refilm it.

[00:22:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:44] Toliy: So that, that, that to me is like the issue with that, but it's very difficult, um, for us to identify to ourselves like, you know, when it's okay to progress and when it's when it's needed to. Hey, like, we should fix this first. 

[00:23:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:23:01] Toliy: You know? 

[00:23:01] Eldar: That's a 

[00:23:01] Toliy: good point. And oftentimes, 

[00:23:03] Eldar: yeah, 

[00:23:04] Toliy: it, it like when, when you hear people say like, Hey, like, you're, you're, um.

[00:23:11] I dunno, like you're making a big deal of something that's not really important or like mm-hmm. You're, you're like, you know, like you're, um, like that I, I, I, I feel like everything is important. Mm-hmm. You know, everything is important and I think that in a person's life, o oftentimes, just in general, so things get categorized as important and then some things get categorized as not important.

[00:23:36] And to me, I always find that like, um, puzzling because to me, every action, all the things that you do are very important. Mm-hmm. But I think that, um, it's difficult to realize those things simply because, like most people don't value those types of things. 

[00:23:52] Eldar: Were you talking about the attachments and desires again?

[00:23:54] Toliy: Yeah. So when you don't value those types of things, yeah. You're gonna find certain details to be not really important. And 

[00:24:03] Eldar: you're not gonna naturally, and therefore you'll, you will naturally gravitate towards creating an equation that quote unquote works for you. 

[00:24:08] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:24:09] Eldar: For your desire desired mind.

[00:24:11] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:11] Eldar: Yeah. Right. In order to extract what it is in that moment that you want because you're so excited. And then when maybe you do get a little bit of it, it's, it's a little bit of confidence, maybe boost. Mm-hmm. But ultimately you can't continue to be 

[00:24:24] Mike: no 

[00:24:25] Eldar: happy and sustain that. 

[00:24:26] Mike: The confidence, like in the, doesn't live in those things that you're trying to extract it from.

[00:24:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:30] Mike: It doesn't exist in those areas, but we've tricked ourselves, I guess, tricked ourselves. Yeah. Uh, to believe it's there. 

[00:24:40] Eldar: Hmm. 

[00:24:41] Mike: Because, well, I don't know 

[00:24:43] Toliy: why 

[00:24:44] Eldar: the way you say trick yourself, it's almost like it's, we did this on purpose. Why did we do this on purpose? Maybe we just don't know any better. 

[00:24:50] Mike: No, yeah, for sure.

[00:24:51] I mean, like, it's not an intentional trick. Yeah. 

[00:24:54] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:24:55] Mike: yeah, yeah. No, you're right. It's not like an intentional trick, but it's, um. Because 

[00:24:59] Eldar: it's almost like 

[00:25:00] Mike: it's, it's a pain reliever probably. 

[00:25:02] Eldar: Yeah. But it, 'cause it's almost like what I'm hearing at least. It's like, hey, like if you get, if you start to think and if you get the equation right, it's almost gonna be an effortless, uh, journey.

[00:25:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:25:13] Eldar: You know? Yeah. Because you got the equation right. And you'll just do it because it's Right. A hundred 

[00:25:18] Mike: percent. Yeah. 

[00:25:19] Eldar: But if you don't mm-hmm. It's gonna be a push and pull. 

[00:25:22] Mike: Of course 

[00:25:22] Eldar: you're gonna need motivational quotes left and right all the time. Of course, you're gonna need sticky notes as reminders of what to do.

[00:25:28] What's the right thing to do? You're gonna need religion to tell you how to act and behave. 

[00:25:33] Mike: Well, the, the what you're, what you're saying, it's like, and I think what you, you, you both, uh, saying is 

[00:25:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:40] Mike: The equation, right? Like, you cannot, you, you get an equation without using the wor the words, like doing things the right way.

[00:25:48] Being like, uh, like in a vir in virtuous things, right? Mm-hmm. Like, um, if I go up there. On that wall, and I don't give a hundred percent effort. And I know that I didn't, but I walk away. 

[00:25:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:00] Mike: And I like, uh, without giving a full attempt. Yeah. I know that I cheated myself. Now I know this. 

[00:26:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:07] Mike: Before I didn't.

[00:26:08] But what if that 

[00:26:08] Eldar: before you covered it up? 

[00:26:09] Mike: Before I covered it up 

[00:26:10] Eldar: with an excuse. 

[00:26:10] Mike: Yeah. Now that I know it's out of the bag. 

[00:26:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:13] Mike: I can't lie to myself. So again, if you don't lie, if you're honest 

[00:26:16] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:26:17] Mike: And you give a hundred percent 

[00:26:18] Eldar: to be tied to virtue, 

[00:26:19] Mike: it's a virtuous thing. Yeah. 

[00:26:21] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:21] Mike: Yeah. I don't think you can draw confidence on anything other than virtues.

[00:26:25] Like 

[00:26:25] Eldar: that's a very, that's very important quote. 

[00:26:28] Mike: Huh. 

[00:26:28] Eldar: I think that's a very important quote. I don't think you can, I think I agree with you. True. Confidence. Lasting confidence. That's all he is talking about. Yeah. Not one that's fleeting like this left and right. 

[00:26:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:26:37] Eldar: He just said it's unlimited. 

[00:26:38] Mike: Yeah. It's, 

[00:26:39] Eldar: it's not, but you've gotta do things.

[00:26:40] Right. You're saying that in order to do those things right, you have to align your actions, your thoughts. Yes. Your mind, your body. Mm-hmm. Your everything in a accordance to virtue. Correct. 

[00:26:50] Toliy: Yeah. 'cause like. A lot of people, I think are, are, uh, relying on like manufactured mental states of confidence that are not real.

[00:26:59] Mike: Mm. 

[00:27:00] Toliy: That require, I don't know, like a really good coach maybe to push you a particular way or a person to tell you particular things of how to think, how to go about things or like, you're, you're relying on like a fleeting, um, resource and the one that you're creating on your own is probably from a false self, uh, confidence.

[00:27:23] Eldar: Yeah. That's interesting. 

[00:27:25] Mike: The resources. Yeah. Those resources that you're relying on. 

[00:27:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:27:28] Mike: They're, they're not infinite. 

[00:27:29] Eldar: They're not, 

[00:27:30] Mike: but if you rely on honesty or whatever, or whichever virtue you pick 

[00:27:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:27:34] Mike: That doesn't have like a expiration date or there's 

[00:27:38] Eldar: an expiration date. 

[00:27:38] Yeah. 

[00:27:38] Mike: Or like it doesn't get more or less.

[00:27:41] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:41] Mike: Like, uh. It's unlimited. It's like it's The foundation is a foundation. 

[00:27:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:27:47] Mike: It's not going to go anywhere. 

[00:27:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:27:49] Mike: But if you're trying to put a hundred thousand pound building on top of a lie, 

[00:27:52] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:27:53] Mike: It's gonna sink. Yeah. But if you put on top of the truth, right? Yeah. Like whatever the formula is they use to say, okay, if you want to put a hundred thousand pounds in here, you gotta use this much concrete, this much this, this much that all these bindings.

[00:28:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:04] Mike: It's gonna work. 

[00:28:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:05] Mike: Because it's the truth based on the equation, the calculation. 

[00:28:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:09] Mike: I guess in a sense, this is like the way I think about it's the same. 

[00:28:13] Eldar: No, I think you guys are right. Yeah. So what the fuck do we recommend these people? Oh, just be confident. 

[00:28:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:28:25] Eldar: Like my cousin said, you know? Oh, you know, I was so confident.

[00:28:27] I was young, I was hot. Yeah. You know, I was ready to take on the world, you know? So confident in myself and it was all I, I was a very good actor. It was all the dream he said. He said I was a very good actor. I knew how to trick people. 

[00:28:44] Toliy: Hmm. 

[00:28:45] Eldar: He was on top of the world. 

[00:28:46] Toliy: What do you recommend? 

[00:28:49] Eldar: You know? 

[00:28:49] Toliy: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:49] Eldar: Totally. 

[00:28:51] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:55] Toliy: Yeah. I think that like o overall like, um, examination and, um, the ability to be able to be challenged, I think gives you the opportunities to actually progress by being able to see a clearer picture as to what's true and not true. 

[00:29:18] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:18] Toliy: But if you don't have those types of abilities, like, like naturally, um, when people like listen to this or they want to do something, like you're trying to get better at something, right?

[00:29:30] So if you're trying to get better at something or improve something or fix something, you naturally need to have the ability to be able to like listen and to be challenged. 

[00:29:40] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:41] Toliy: And two. Um, figure out a way to think differently about something. But if you don't have those types of, if you have a hard time with any of those things, I find it very hard for any of this information to be relevant to you at all because, um, I think you're fighting a different battle at that point.

[00:29:59] You're not trying to, you're not trying to improve, you're trying to, 

[00:30:01] Eldar: you're almost saying that the, the confidence and everything else, which is a good byproduct of living a virtuous life 

[00:30:06] Toliy: Yeah. Like, 

[00:30:07] Eldar: is so farfetched for you that that's not the level you're functioning on because you're still in the weeds.

[00:30:11] Toliy: Well, yeah. Well, yeah, that and, um, I think if you remember a lot of like what CO was saying, like he couldn't, it was very hard for him to get to a point where like he, he, he was doing everything he can possible to get to a point where he can actually believe that he was wrong about this. This whole time.

[00:30:33] Okay. And that's a point that, that's like a moment that I think a lot of people avoid, is that like, could you have been wrong 

[00:30:39] Eldar: this whole time? 

[00:30:40] Toliy: The, this whole time? Is that possible? Like, you're 30 years old, you're 40 years old, you're 50 years old. Mm-hmm. Could you have it wrong? I think that the older you get, the more your mind will fight against that, that notion, that notion you were wrong.

[00:30:54] It's fine. 'cause you, you just lived 

[00:30:57] Eldar: a 

[00:30:57] Toliy: lot, a, a long life. No matter if you're, you know, like if you realize this at like 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, you know, whenever 

[00:31:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:07] Toliy: Whenever you do realize it, it'll always feel like, like how could you have been wrong 

[00:31:13] Eldar: this whole time? 

[00:31:14] Toliy: How, how, how is that possible? 

[00:31:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:16] Toliy: And I think that, yeah, like, you know, when we were talking about this with, because he would fight, everything he does is a fight to, to, to protect that moment from happening.

[00:31:25] Because that moment is who's, who's fighting a painful one? 

[00:31:27] Eldar: Who's fighting? Um, is it the ego? Pride. Well, 

[00:31:31] Toliy: yeah, probably like ego and pride. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The, the person that thought that they were right, the person that was driving that, that ship, 

[00:31:37] Eldar: the person that manufactured this whole illusion. 

[00:31:39] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:40] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:31:40] And most of the time who's manufacturing those illusions? An insecure bastard. 

[00:31:45] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:31:45] Eldar: Yes or no? 

[00:31:46] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:31:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:49] Toliy: Like that, that moment to me is a very important moment, but it's a very difficult moment to like endure because it's like, 

[00:31:55] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:31:57] Toliy: Um, I, I like, what the 

[00:31:58] Eldar: fuck? 

[00:31:58] Toliy: Yeah. I do think that once you get past that mo moment though, um, it's, it's a very, like a free feeling.

[00:32:05] Like I think that you feel very, very good. Um, because 

[00:32:09] Eldar: yeah, I think you probably go through a lot of different emotions. 

[00:32:11] Toliy: Yeah. Because like, you get some like a, like a sense of relief. 

[00:32:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:32:16] Toliy: And I feel like you maybe get a new sense of opportunity, 

[00:32:20] Mike: Mike, 

[00:32:20] Eldar: you feel like you got a new sense of opportunity mm-hmm.

[00:32:22] Mike: When you start letting 

[00:32:23] Eldar: go of 

[00:32:23] Mike: your 

[00:32:23] Eldar: bullshit. 

[00:32:24] Mike: Yeah. And all this stuff, this with the rock climbing, this last recent developments is absolutely crazy. 

[00:32:29] Eldar: It's absolutely crazy. 

[00:32:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:32:31] Eldar: You feel like a new person. 

[00:32:32] Mike: Yeah. I feel like completely a new person. 

[00:32:33] Eldar: You developing com. Yeah. 

[00:32:34] Mike: Yeah. I mean, uh, it's, it's been like a almost a year since we've been doing this.

[00:32:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:32:42] Mike: And I think the progression is obviously, you know, been more and more learning a lot more. 

[00:32:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:32:46] Mike: But I think like this was a huge lesson to learn within that. 

[00:32:49] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:32:50] Mike: Um, so 

[00:32:51] Eldar: I see when you're jumping off those walls or when you do a hard thing, I see that you like, almost like smiling to yourself that you were able to accomplish it.

[00:32:58] Yeah. Like in a genuine way. 

[00:32:59] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. For or 

[00:33:00] Eldar: before you were, you know, either Aggie or beating yourself up or whatever, you know? Yeah. And that you weren't able to extract the same stuff Yeah. That you are today. 

[00:33:08] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I said, I think I said it on like a, I said on the last podcast, like, um, in this sphere, right?

[00:33:17] Mm-hmm. Um, and specifically rock climbing. And obviously I wanna extend it to 

[00:33:22] Eldar: other things, 

[00:33:23] Mike: other things. You know, I realized that if I go there and, well, I don't think, I don't think I can have a dishonest conversation myself on that wall anymore. 

[00:33:33] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:34] Mike: But if I go there and I try to trick myself, I can't.

[00:33:38] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:38] Mike: You know, so I know what's happening and, and I also know that if I don't go back there and try and give a hundred percent, I'm not okay with that anymore. 

[00:33:47] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:33:48] Mike: Uh, it's like I give up. Mm-hmm. And I'm not okay with that in this anymore, like, giving up, not in the sense of like, oh, this is actually too hard and I cannot do it.

[00:33:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:33:58] Mike: In the sense of my mind is telling me that I cannot do this. 

[00:34:01] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:02] Mike: But, and I believe it without actually finding out if it the truth for yourself. 

[00:34:05] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:34:06] Mike: Like, if I go up there and I fall off a hundred times 

[00:34:10] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:34:10] Mike: And I tried a hundred times and I can say, you know what? I didn't bullshit anybody.

[00:34:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:15] Mike: That's it. It was too hard for me. Yeah. My body cannot move this way. My hands are not that strong. 

[00:34:19] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:34:19] Mike: Whatever it is, it 

[00:34:20] Eldar: was honest 

[00:34:20] Mike: conversation. It's the truth. The truth is my excuse is the truth. 

[00:34:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:24] Mike: And I can live with that. Yeah. You know? Um, I cannot live with the other one 

[00:34:29] Eldar: anymore.

[00:34:29] Mike: Anymore now. 

[00:34:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:30] Mike: Yeah. I can't hide it, do it. 'cause now I know what's out there. 

[00:34:33] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:34:34] Mike: that's right. Like I know what's the, what's working behind the scenes. 

[00:34:36] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:38] Mike: So, 

[00:34:39] Eldar: so going back to you wanting to lose weight, you said, Hey, I want to get better at rock climbing. 

[00:34:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:34:44] Eldar: You wanted to lose more weight in order to be stronger and carry more, less weight.

[00:34:47] Yeah. To, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:34:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:34:48] Eldar: So what happened with that motivation or whatever happened that reasoning, 

[00:34:51] Mike: I think that was part of it, but I think that was the other thing of the insecurity of like, uh, wanting to lose weight for the wrong reason. Did you 

[00:34:57] Eldar: cover it with that? 

[00:34:58] Mike: I think it was mixed. Yeah. A coverup.

[00:35:00] Not that I think it was mixed. Oh really? It was both. Yeah. 

[00:35:02] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:35:03] Mike: I do wanna lose weight, obviously. Yeah. Logically makes sense. 

[00:35:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:06] Mike: You know, of 

[00:35:07] Eldar: course. 

[00:35:07] Mike: Um, but. I 

[00:35:09] Eldar: mean, if you lose every 10, 10, 20 pounds you lose or whatever. Huge. Imagine how much, you know, less work you have to do up there. 

[00:35:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:35:15] Eldar: You know what I mean?

[00:35:16] Less strain that you have 

[00:35:17] on 

[00:35:18] Eldar: everything. 

[00:35:18] Mike: Yeah. It's of course, but I think tying the truth, 

[00:35:22] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:35:22] Mike: With a lie, you're not gonna win. Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:25] Eldar: Like 

[00:35:25] Mike: the truth is, yes, I do. Who's gonna say No, I don't wanna lose weight. So it's easier on me to climb. Yeah. So I can get better. Like, especially, I do like this a lot.

[00:35:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:33] Mike: I want to keep climbing and I want to keep enjoying it. But the progressing, the thing is, the lie is in the driver's seat, is that I'm insecure about the weight. 

[00:35:41] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:35:41] Mike: And the, and the truth cannot win. 

[00:35:43] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:43] Mike: Because that guy's, it's like a po. It's like a poison. The well is poisoned. 

[00:35:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:48] Mike: Even if there's some truth in it, the poison is still there and it's gonna mush the whole thing.

[00:35:54] Eldar: Okay. So now then my next question is, 

[00:35:57] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:35:58] Eldar: You have to choose a side. Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:00] Mike: That's what 

[00:36:01] Eldar: it sounds like. 

[00:36:02] Mike: Well, that's the internal battle. 

[00:36:03] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:36:04] Mike: All the time 

[00:36:05] Eldar: Yeah. Of choosing a side. Correct. And I think that the, if you were to choose the side of, I want to climb and I want to be better at climbing 

[00:36:13] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:36:14] Eldar: And I wanna lose weight 

[00:36:15] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:36:16] Eldar: Then you have to be focusing on becoming almost obsessive 

[00:36:21] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:36:21] Eldar: About rock climbing. 

[00:36:23] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:23] Eldar: And the weight then becomes a natural, uh, byproduct. 

[00:36:28] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:36:28] Eldar: Losing weight is gonna become a natural byproduct. Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:36:31] Eldar: All of that obsession. 

[00:36:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:36:33] Eldar: What do you think? I 

[00:36:34] Mike: think so, but I don't, uh, 

[00:36:39] Eldar: like is that the right equation?

[00:36:41] Mike: No, I don't think so. No. You don't think so? I'm not, I don't think so initially. I don't think so. No. 

[00:36:45] Toliy: Well, yeah, because like he, he didn't wanna lose weight to become a better, like, his intention was not to lose weight to become a better rock. 

[00:36:52] Mike: Well, it was. It was. Yeah. It was. Part of it was that, but there's also the other part.

[00:36:57] Toliy: I think that was the, the other one was the, was that like the driving? 

[00:37:01] Mike: Yeah, they're both, they're both equal. I mean, not equal, sorry. They're both not equal one. I think the insecurity is more, yeah. Is more powerful. 

[00:37:09] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:37:10] Mike: Okay. 

[00:37:10] Eldar: 75. 

[00:37:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:37:12] Eldar: Versus 25 or 

[00:37:13] Mike: more. Sure. 

[00:37:14] Eldar: More. 

[00:37:14] Mike: I don't know the numbers. Okay. I didn't think about it.

[00:37:16] But yes, there's, the insecurity is a big one, you know? Yeah. But I, again, like, I will never be able to lose weight because of rock climbing. Mm-hmm. If I don't get rid of this other thing that's driving me, it's a guarantee. But now that you found a way 

[00:37:31] Eldar: to be self-confident in rock climbing, why can't rock climbing be the path to losing that weight?

[00:37:36] Mike: It could be, but it will never, you will never lose the mentality that makes you insecure about being overweight. 

[00:37:41] Eldar: Ah. 

[00:37:41] Mike: You may be losing 'cause you can't wait. You can't lose it on the wall. You'll be, you'll mentally be fat. 

[00:37:45] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:37:45] Mike: But physically you'll be skinny. 

[00:37:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:47] Mike: You know? 

[00:37:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:48] Mike: So like that. 

[00:37:51] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:37:52] Mike: All because the mentality has to get.

[00:37:55] I have to solve the illogical equation that's running, running my life. 

[00:37:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:59] Mike: When it comes to being overweight or 

[00:38:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:01] Mike: Not being overweight. 

[00:38:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:04] Mike: You know, and the, and the relationship I have with that and the insecurity about it. 

[00:38:08] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Okay. 

[00:38:11] Mike: Yeah. Otherwise it's not gonna make a difference. 

[00:38:13] Eldar: Alright. Well get back to us on that then that, that equation and how you're gonna solve it.

[00:38:16] Yeah. Because that's interesting. 

[00:38:17] Mike: Yeah. I have to think about it. 

[00:38:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:20] Mike: Okay. Well, I think, yeah, I also think it's, that's just like, um, I think if we tie it into um, uh, the episode we had a few weeks ago about alcoholism, I think the alcoholism is not the, is not the cause 

[00:38:36] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:38:36] Mike: Is the result. 

[00:38:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:37] Mike: So there's something within me.

[00:38:39] Eldar: Well in that case the alcoholism was actually a relief. 

[00:38:42] Mike: Yeah. It's a relief. So the food 

[00:38:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:43] Mike: Is a relief. It could be, uh, not dealing with some, some problems. 

[00:38:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:47] Mike: Right. 

[00:38:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:49] Mike: Or. Yeah. Problems. They just call it that. Unresolved things, problems, whatever it is. Mm-hmm. That lead to this, then these choices.

[00:38:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:58] Mike: You know, looking for relief through food. 

[00:38:59] Eldar: So you need to find those problems still. Yeah, yeah. Alerting problems inside your head. 

[00:39:03] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:39:03] Eldar: Which lead you to, to, to, to behave a certain type of 

[00:39:06] Mike: way. It could also be an excuse, you know, like mm-hmm. I think you said it a lot to me, like, yo, how many excuses you gonna have for not going out to talk to girls or whatever.

[00:39:13] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:14] Mike: It could be just an excuse that I already just built in 

[00:39:17] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:39:17] Mike: And been using, you know, like, oh, I'm overweight. Yeah. And to keeping me from it, but really it doesn't stand or anything. Maybe I am not very insecure about my weight. Maybe I am, I don't know. 

[00:39:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:27] Mike: I have to go find that out. 

[00:39:29] Eldar: Exactly.

[00:39:29] Mike: You know, like, 

[00:39:29] Eldar: yeah. '

[00:39:30] Mike: cause for a while I felt good. I was in a good weight. I wasn't like, you know. Mm-hmm. Beating myself up. I wasn't like, 

[00:39:37] Eldar: so then in that case then it's almost like you shouldn't allow yourself to lose weight. Right. 

[00:39:42] Mike: I know I shouldn't allow, but I don't think it's possible even to lose weight.

[00:39:45] Eldar: Yeah. Oh, wow. 

[00:39:46] Mike: To keep it off. 

[00:39:47] Eldar: Wow. 

[00:39:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:39:47] Eldar: Okay. For the wrong 

[00:39:49] Mike: reasons. Yeah. It's the same thing to to, 

[00:39:50] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:39:50] Mike: It's the same thing. The, the pool is poisoned. 

[00:39:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:53] Mike: So if you have good in it, the bad was gonna outweigh, outweigh it. 

[00:39:57] Eldar: Every time. 

[00:39:57] Mike: Every time. Yeah. I don't think it's possible, no matter how obsessed I become a rock climbing or whatever.

[00:40:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:05] Mike: You have a poisoned 

[00:40:07] Eldar: somewhere else. 

[00:40:08] Mike: Somewhere else, yeah. That's in connection with this. And the, and you cannot use 

[00:40:13] Eldar: one to cover up the other. 

[00:40:14] Mike: Yeah. One you cannot use the bad to get good. 

[00:40:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:17] Mike: You know, if you wanna call it that. 

[00:40:19] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. No, I understand what you're saying. 

[00:40:20] Mike: Okay. I don't think that formula works.

[00:40:22] Okay. 

[00:40:23] Eldar: Well, interesting. 

[00:40:24] Mike: Yeah. But, but, um, I also think that, I said to you, obviously, you said, yeah. Um, I said this indecisiveness. 

[00:40:31] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:32] Mike: It's one of the worst like stressors, I feel like. 

[00:40:35] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:35] Mike: And I think we, we have, you know, millions of those, not millions maybe, although we have a lot of those Yeah. On a daily basis that we kind of seesaw from one thing to another as, and it's a huge stressor.

[00:40:48] And you said to me like, oh, that's because you're like, uh, thinking about it now. 

[00:40:52] Eldar: Yeah. Well, because you're suffering from it right now. Right? Yeah. Or you are very zoomed in on it. 

[00:40:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:40:57] Eldar: You realize that these are the kind of conversations 

[00:41:00] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:41:00] Eldar: That you're having internally mm-hmm. With yourself. 

[00:41:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:41:03] Eldar: And they're very like pronounced.

[00:41:04] So I think a lot of, a lot of times totally had those epiphanies. 

[00:41:07] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:07] Eldar: Right? Where he went through certain epiphanies and said, yo, this is the most important thing. 

[00:41:10] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:10] Eldar: You know what I mean? Like, this is it. Like 

[00:41:12] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:41:12] Eldar: You know, I don't know. Good attitude or something, you know? Yeah. He said, yo, good attitude is the most important thing, you know?

[00:41:18] And then I remember we dissected certain things. Yeah. Obviously it's important, you know, but right now he's, he's maybe, uh, it's very relevant in his life. In that moment. 

[00:41:25] Mike: In that moment. Yeah. 

[00:41:26] Eldar: You know, for you, maybe it's this thing right now. Yeah. Because this is what you're suffering from. This is what you're experiencing.

[00:41:32] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:32] Eldar: So you coined that, but I, I think it's, it applies to a lot of people. I think. I think this your. You are able to bring this to light right now, and you are consciously looking at it and saying like, yo, that is painful. Mm-hmm. A lot of people, it's not conscious at all. It's already on a subconscious level.

[00:41:47] Mm-hmm. Because it's programmed and conditioned, so they don't even look at it like, what are you talking about? Right? Mm-hmm. Like, if you brought this to you, some people, Hey, you have this problem, they, they probably won't even internalize it or feel the same thing that you're feeling. 

[00:41:59] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:00] Eldar: Because they wouldn't be looking at it the same way.

[00:42:02] Mike: Well, yeah. I think, you know, uh, I don't know how to phrase it, but like, I feel like, uh, in a, in a way everything is the same, but also everything is different in the sense of like, what did the example is that the stress is called, called like the, uh, the. Cause of the stressor, right? Mm-hmm. The indecisiveness is either you pick on the side to be on the side of truth and reason, logic.

[00:42:26] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:27] Mike: Or you choose the other side. But I feel like that's like with everything in life, right? 

[00:42:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:42:31] Mike: Either you have a good attitude or a bad attitude, right? Yeah. But what does that mean at the core? Any example that you give? 

[00:42:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:42:36] Mike: It's gonna be like if 

[00:42:37] Eldar: you dissect 

[00:42:38] Mike: essentially Yeah. It's the same thing.

[00:42:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:42:40] Mike: If you get to the, like, the principle of what's actually happening. 

[00:42:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:42:44] Mike: It's ultimately, like if you fi boil it down to the smallest kind of like, Adam, Adam, it's always gonna be a right or wrong, just call it that. Or like, uh, not for you, but in relation, like in, in a, in a different sense of right or wrong.

[00:43:00] Like 

[00:43:00] Eldar: to the truth. 

[00:43:01] Mike: To the truth, yeah. So that's why I agree it's a hundred percent relative, because in this moment I'm having this battle with this. Mm-hmm. But, uh, essentially it's a battle between right and wrong between the truth. Mm-hmm. But this is just the way it shows itself. Yeah. You know, this is just the depiction of it, or like 

[00:43:20] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:43:20] Mike: It's face in, in this thing, but it's ultimately every single time it's the, it's the battle between 

[00:43:27] Eldar: Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's a thing that's going on in your mind. Uh, you are the, let's just say the creator of that thing. Mm-hmm. Because you are living it and you're creating it. Yeah. But then you also the interpreter of it as well.

[00:43:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:43:38] Eldar: Right. And now that you've become a conscious, let's just say, interpreter of those feelings and those pains, you now become the judge and you say like, oh shit. There's a battle between right and wrong in my head. 

[00:43:48] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:48] Eldar: Yeah. You know, and until I solve it, I'm gonna experience the bad and the good.

[00:43:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:43:51] Eldar: You know, before I make the choice and finally separate myself and say, you know what, okay, what do we, what do we have here? 

[00:43:56] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:57] Eldar: You know, let's make a choice, or let's do the right thing, or let's not make a choice. Let's, let's, uh, be on the side of caution. Right. Say, you know what? I'm not sure yet.

[00:44:07] I don't know. 

[00:44:08] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:08] Eldar: Let's present this in, in, in the philosophy podcast. Yeah. Let's present it to my friends, you know, and see like, what am I thinking here? Am I onto something or am I not? And I think that's a, definitely a relevant choice of action that's you can, you can take here, which is always recommended, obviously.

[00:44:23] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:23] Eldar: You know, when we talk about these things. 

[00:44:25] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:44:26] Eldar: But yeah. That's good. Yeah. 

[00:44:28] Mike: Yeah. I think, um, I think the, the like, uh, a lot of it I think we were talking about is those things, those like battles 

[00:44:40] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:44:40] Mike: Going which way you want to go. It like, almost feels like in the moment or uh, when you're not conscious, you don't really know what's going on 'cause you don't pause enough.

[00:44:50] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:44:51] Mike: To actually like 

[00:44:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:44:54] Mike: And, and that's probably 

[00:44:55] Eldar: Examine it. 

[00:44:55] Mike: Examine it, yeah. Yeah. But it's also probably with time, you have to learn how to not examine it. Because like if you had this choice a hundred times in your life 

[00:45:05] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:45:06] Mike: And you weren't able to let, just say concentrate enough 

[00:45:10] Eldar: mm-hmm. To 

[00:45:10] Mike: examine it, you're not gonna just.

[00:45:13] Give it, uh, energy, uh, every time. Yeah. Eventually you have to just put it into that subconscious world. 

[00:45:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:45:20] Mike: Where it's like, oh, I feel sad. Okay, let me eat this. That's it. That's gone. Yeah. Like it's this autopilot behavior. 

[00:45:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:45:28] Mike: And the thinking becomes all the non-thinking auto also becomes autopilot.

[00:45:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:45:32] Mike: Because it's too painful to like, getting to a dead end and just staring at it, be like, yo, what the hell? What do I do here? I don't know how to think. I don't know how to Yeah. Reason through this. What choice do I make? This is painful. Like quick, I gotta turn around. Yeah. Got away from it. I don't know, 

[00:45:51] Eldar: but I, I think that the way out is still is to be, bring it, bring it out to light, and then at least put a pause on it.

[00:45:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:57] Eldar: You know, bring it up to light and then trying to figure out which conclusions you wanna make about it. And I think that's, that's empowerment right there, I think. Mm-hmm. That's where at least empowerment starts to be birthed in you probably where you say, you know what? I realize that like, you know, for a very long time I had these, these polarities 

[00:46:12] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:46:12] Eldar: Inside of me, and now I have the ability to choose. Yeah. This is, I think this is very good. 

[00:46:17] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:18] Eldar: That's, I think that's the whole point of raising awareness and waking up. 

[00:46:22] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:46:23] Eldar: You know? For sure. So then you can have a choice in the matter. Do you want to be a victim? 

[00:46:27] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:29] Eldar: You know, do you wanna be empowered?

[00:46:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:46:31] Eldar: You know, do you want to keep saying that the world's oppressing you and all these other things, or your past whatever decisions or your trauma and all this other stuff? Yeah. Or do you wanna finally take accountability? 

[00:46:41] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:42] Eldar: Tony's favorite word. Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:44] Mike: You know? Yeah. 

[00:46:45] Eldar: Take the responsibility of your own actions and say, you know what, okay, I'm a thinking being, I have a disability.

[00:46:50] Let me put it to good use. How do I navigate this life in this reality in such a way where it's favorable and is aligned, accord aligned with the truth. 

[00:47:00] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:00] Eldar: And virtue versus not. 

[00:47:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:47:04] Eldar: And I think with time, as you start receiving outcomes that are aligning with those things, you start feeling good about yourself.

[00:47:12] And I think naturally then confidence starts to build where you go like, okay, cool. Like, I know what the fuck I'm talking about. 

[00:47:16] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:17] Eldar: You know what I mean? Like what? Like, and, and life's questions that come your way. You have the ability to, to answer, to think about them and answer them, and in accordance to your own virtue and who you are so you don't get too excited and then make the wrong move.

[00:47:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:47:34] Eldar: Right. 

[00:47:35] Mike: For sure. 

[00:47:35] Eldar: So confidence becomes almost a byproduct 

[00:47:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:47:38] Eldar: Of living a good life. 

[00:47:40] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:47:40] Eldar: But a good life living a good life is. Socr said like, in order to, you know, live a good life, uh, you have to examine it. 

[00:47:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:47:48] Eldar: Because an unexamined life is not worth living. 

[00:47:51] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:47:52] Eldar: You know, I mean, that, that quote stands a fucking evergreen quote.

[00:47:57] It stands forever. Yeah. It's eternal. 

[00:47:59] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. The, that's for sure. Like a, like you, like you guys are saying, the confidence. It's not, you don't like, uh, set out to be confident. 

[00:48:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:12] Mike: You just, by living a certain way or doing things a certain way, you become, you become confident. Yeah, 

[00:48:18] Eldar: yeah, 

[00:48:18] Mike: yeah. 

[00:48:19] Eldar: By not directly doing anything to get confident.

[00:48:22] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:48:23] Toliy: That, that, that's the big thing. That's the paradox. 

[00:48:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:26] Toliy: That I think is the most important. Like one, one of the most important 

[00:48:29] Eldar: realizations. 

[00:48:30] Toliy: Yeah. Like, like parts of it, because then it's not a manufactured confidence. Then it's like a like. You can't help but be confident. 

[00:48:38] Eldar: That's right.

[00:48:38] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Because like you have no other state. 

[00:48:40] Eldar: You have no other state. 

[00:48:41] Toliy: Yeah. It is the only thing that that exists is this byproduct of what, what you've built. 

[00:48:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:48] Toliy: Um, 

[00:48:49] Eldar: right thought, right speech, right action. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:48:53] Toliy: But the desires, I think constantly trick, trick us into like a illusion.

[00:49:04] Progressive. Yeah. Like a progressive mindset versus like a, uh, first fix. Like, what you need to fix my mindset. Or first like fix, like what's like, uh. What's bothering you first? 

[00:49:17] Eldar: And the funny thing is, yeah, I agree with you. And the funny thing is, if you think about the desire or the future goals, future things, right?

[00:49:24] It all almost requires energy. Some extraness. 

[00:49:28] Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:29] Eldar: Some doing something like extraordinary, you know what I mean? In order to get to some place, it requires moving shit, doing shit like mm-hmm. Where the other part requires what you said, uh, focus. 

[00:49:42] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:42] Eldar: Right? Yeah. Be still 

[00:49:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:49:44] Eldar: Be mindful. Yeah. Right.

[00:49:46] Pay attention. Mm-hmm. And shut the fuck up. And like, really, like right here, be in the moment. 

[00:49:51] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:51] Eldar: One is fucking moving somewhere. The other one's standing still. 

[00:49:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:55] Eldar: Like, it's crazy. 

[00:49:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:49:58] Eldar: It's a complete polar opposite. 

[00:49:59] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:50:00] Eldar: Right? 

[00:50:01] Mike: Mm-hmm. I had like a funny, uh, thing, I don't think I shared it with you about exactly what you just said, but in like a manifestation, like a physical manifestation.

[00:50:10] Eldar: Um, 

[00:50:12] Mike: so. This discovery is new to me. Right. Like, like understanding this 

[00:50:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:17] Mike: Confidence and stuff and, and how it's like, you know, uh, connected to the climbing. So after, but on the previous podcast, you know, where we spoke about it, um, the following day it went rock climbing. 

[00:50:31] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:32] Mike: You know, and before that there was a route that I couldn't even start, you know?

[00:50:39] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:50:41] Mike: And I'm like, uh, I knew this, that I couldn't start it. 

[00:50:45] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:46] Mike: And the next day when I came in 

[00:50:48] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:50:49] Mike: I started it and I'm like, I, I didn't finish it the, like, the first time off, but I almost jumped off like a little kid excited. I'm like, yo, I just did this. 

[00:50:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:59] Mike: But not because I got stronger. 

[00:51:00] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:51:01] Mike: Physically. 

[00:51:02] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:51:02] Mike: But it was more, I was like all very like, mental 

[00:51:04] Eldar: switch. 

[00:51:05] Mike: Mental switch. I didn't give up before I started. 

[00:51:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:08] Mike: You know, 

[00:51:09] Eldar: that's a, that's 

[00:51:09] Mike: a big, that's a big one. 

[00:51:10] Eldar: And I'm 

[00:51:10] Mike: like very happy. I didn't finish it, but I came over to you and I said, yo, I just did this. Like, I was surprised myself. So what happened was, 

[00:51:18] Eldar: yeah.

[00:51:18] Mike: Be, because I didn't allow that, the nonsense, the, to dictate what I'm gonna do, I surprised myself by like actually being able to focus and do what I needed to do. 

[00:51:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:29] Mike: And then I, after I did that, I did it right. Like I finished it. 

[00:51:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:33] Mike: You know, 

[00:51:33] Eldar: just like that. 

[00:51:34] Mike: Just like that. But it was surprising to me because it's like, you know, maybe this happens, but your mentality changes on things.

[00:51:41] Right? 

[00:51:42] Yeah. 

[00:51:42] Mike: Like, you know, and then you go and you act it out. 

[00:51:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:46] Mike: And you behave in that way. You're like, oh shit, this is sick. 

[00:51:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:50] Mike: You surprised yourself. Yeah. I didn't surprised yourself. Yeah. 

[00:51:52] You 

[00:51:52] Eldar: surprised yourself. Yeah. 

[00:51:53] Mike: So 

[00:51:54] Eldar: I think that's a very good example. 

[00:51:55] Mike: Yeah. So that's, that's kind of like, uh, yeah.

[00:51:57] The, the product of 

[00:51:58] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:52:00] Mike: The byproduct of doing things a certain way. 

[00:52:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:52:03] Mike: You know, like you said, with the focus and the commitment and the, 

[00:52:06] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:52:07] Mike: Being in the moment. 

[00:52:07] Eldar: Being in the moment actually zooming in. 

[00:52:09] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:10] Eldar: And that what you're trying to do. 

[00:52:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:11] Eldar: And then you see like, you like, oh shit, that's, I didn't know that was in me.

[00:52:14] Mike: Yeah. Oh, I didn't know it's or didn't I know. 

[00:52:16] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I don't know if the same example, but like the blue one. 

[00:52:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:21] Eldar: The new blue one with the big ones. 

[00:52:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:23] Eldar: Like. I'm going up there, I'm trying it, and I finished it. And then you kind of advising me a lot of the times, like, yo, do this, do that, or whatever, try this and that.

[00:52:31] And they're like, you go and you're like, nah. A lot of times like mm-hmm. You like, you don't want to try it even. 

[00:52:36] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:37] Eldar: You know, that's not your first answer. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You almost like evaluated already in your head and said like, ah, that's not my shit. 

[00:52:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:43] Eldar: Like, I can't do this. 

[00:52:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:45] Eldar: But then you get up and you surprise yourself.

[00:52:47] Yeah. Like I, I, I thought like, you can do it 

[00:52:49] Mike: Yeah. On that blue one that you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't feel like I can't do it. 

[00:52:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:52:53] Mike: The only reason I was telling you I can't do it 'cause my hip was messed up. 

[00:52:55] Eldar: Okay. Yeah. 

[00:52:56] Mike: You know? 

[00:52:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:52:56] Mike: But I didn't feel like, yo, this is too hard. Okay. And, and I definitely, you know, got up a little bit.

[00:53:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:01] Mike: It's hard. Sure. It's like, requires a little bit of shoulder. Yeah. Like pain. It had a little pain, but it's like I could do it. Mm-hmm. You know? 

[00:53:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:08] Mike: When my legs healed, I definitely wanna do it. Yeah. I, I don't, I didn't come up and say like, this is intimidating. 

[00:53:13] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:53:13] Mike: Even that black one that I was trying yesterday.

[00:53:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:15] Mike: Like, it's intimidating. 

[00:53:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:17] Mike: But not how it used to be. Intimidating. 

[00:53:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:19] Mike: Not how I would say, no, I can't do this. I don't wanna try it. I 

[00:53:22] Eldar: You don't wanna try it. Yeah. 

[00:53:22] Mike: Now I'm more, more, more sad that I know I could do it. 

[00:53:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:26] Mike: It's just a matter of doing it and, you know, getting healthy and then doing it.

[00:53:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:31] Mike: But again, also doing it is not, maybe I won't complete it, but at least I know that I'll give everything to, 

[00:53:37] Eldar: to do it, 

[00:53:37] Mike: to do it, 

[00:53:38] Eldar: to try 

[00:53:38] Mike: it. And if I fail because 

[00:53:40] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:53:40] Mike: I'm not strong enough or I'm not, 

[00:53:42] Eldar: you're gonna be okay with 

[00:53:43] Mike: it, I'm gonna be okay with it. 'cause I know I didn't punk out. 

[00:53:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:46] Mike: Yeah.

[00:53:46] Good. So yeah, I definitely feel like the mentality has changed on that, on the great, on the negative. Uh, yeah, negative. Talk about it. 

[00:53:55] Eldar: Well, the next wall is the girls. 

[00:53:57] Mike: Next wall is the girls. Yeah. Yeah. That's a serious wall. Nah, not really. 

[00:54:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:54:04] Eldar: Okay. So we solved it or what? That's what confidence is.

[00:54:08] This is, this is why a lot of people lack the confidence. Uh, they get the whole equation incorrectly. Yeah. A lot of times we, we mention that, you know, people actually trying to be confident, but they not. They're not supposed to be trying to be confident at all. 

[00:54:19] Mike: The thing is, um, uh, this is what I just thought about.

[00:54:24] A lot of times people are pretty convincing in their confidence. Mm-hmm. Well, it could be. I mean, it could be, but even look at the example, right? Do you remember We're climbing last week and that was the Asian kid. 

[00:54:38] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:38] Mike: He's nasty. 

[00:54:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:39] Mike: And then all of a sudden, 

[00:54:41] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:54:41] Mike: He was really bad to himself. 

[00:54:42] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:54:43] Mike: You remember this? 

[00:54:43] Eldar: Yeah. I do remember this. A lot of times he climbed very, very quietly 

[00:54:47] Mike: Yes. 

[00:54:47] Eldar: Like being a stoic. 

[00:54:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:54:49] Eldar: You know, and then this one time, like he's completely flip, completely flipped the switch and he's like cursing and shit at himself and like 

[00:54:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:54:54] Eldar: Yeah. Being really bad to himself. 

[00:54:55] Mike: Not real, not, not like the typical behavior we see.

[00:54:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:58] Mike: So I think a lot of, a lot of people they, their ego, right? Mm-hmm. It shows some confidence, you know? I guess somehow the ego and confidence is mm-hmm. To me, it makes sense that it's connected. 

[00:55:15] Eldar: It looks, sometimes it looks like it's confidence. 

[00:55:17] Mike: It looks like it's connected. Yeah. The ego looks like confidence.

[00:55:19] Yeah. 

[00:55:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:20] Mike: But, and, and I think people do get tricked. 

[00:55:24] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:24] Mike: You know, but it's in those moments, the little moments, the micro moments where you're not paying attention 

[00:55:30] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:55:31] Mike: Where you can actually see what's actually happening behind the scenes. 

[00:55:34] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:34] Mike: That one little thing when you get off the wall and that look you have on your face that nobody notices for a split second.

[00:55:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:40] Mike: But somebody might've noticed it. 

[00:55:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:42] Mike: Or any example. Right. Yeah. When you see like, uh, people having fun showing off, being like rich, having all these stuff. But then when you see them in the moment when they're alone, 

[00:55:50] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:55:51] Mike: You see they're miserable, 

[00:55:52] Eldar: right? Yeah. 

[00:55:52] Mike: They look confident. Yeah. They have money, they have all the shit, whatever, you know, girls, whatever.

[00:55:57] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:58] Mike: But when you see them in their actual moments, yeah. You see that they're not, 

[00:56:03] Eldar: they're acting. 

[00:56:03] Mike: They're acting. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, the ego, it could, could be confused a lot of times for. Confidence. Mm-hmm. Until it gets tested by a, like a Yeah. 

[00:56:15] Eldar: By life. 

[00:56:16] Mike: By life. Yeah. In 

[00:56:17] Eldar: reality. 

[00:56:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:56:19] Eldar: Okay. Totally. Do we solve it or what?

[00:56:24] Toliy: Well, so if someone, if, if somebody asks you like, Hey, how do I get confident? What, what would, what would you tell? 

[00:56:32] Eldar: Yeah. I would say that you can't by, it's a byproduct of doing something else. Mm-hmm. So you can't get confident. You can get honest. Right. 

[00:56:43] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:56:43] Eldar: By being honest with yourself, by doing the right thing, you will become confident.

[00:56:47] So it's not a direct, like, hey, become confident. Do think you have to focus on the other stuff? 

[00:56:52] Toliy: Think there's, do you, do you think, 'cause this is some something I was thinking about, what, while you guys were talking, do you, do you think that, um, you need to be able to be honest with yourself? Or is there a difference of not being able to lie to yourself?

[00:57:05] Or, or is that the same thing you. 

[00:57:07] Eldar: I think that the first part that you said, uh, you have to be honest with yourself is an active, uh, is an active, um, attempt versus not being able to lie to yourself is a passive autopilot already. So I think that confidence is probably tied to the second part where you don't have the ability to lie yourself anymore, 

[00:57:28] Toliy: because I feel like as you do something and you're, let's just assume that you're under the wrong impression on that thing.

[00:57:37] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:38] Toliy: Well, I think that what you're actually doing is you're growing the ability to lie to yourself by being on that path, and that's why it's, it's really difficult to be challenged. It's very difficult to be honest. 

[00:57:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:53] Toliy: Because you just can't. You know? 

[00:57:56] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:57] Toliy: So you're, you're gaining abilities of how to actually lie yourself, trick 

[00:58:00] Eldar: yourself.

[00:58:00] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Better actively. 

[00:58:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:58:02] Toliy: While being under the wrong impression, impression. Impression. 

[00:58:05] Eldar: But you have to upkeep it because you've attached yourself to a very specific thing, like you said, a desire, some kind of desire. Right. Where like, you manufactured my cousin, right? He said, Hey, uh, I needed to present myself as this like hero to the girls that I was with.

[00:58:19] Mm-hmm. You know, I, I had to pay for everything. I had to take care of all the problems. I have to solve all the issues, you know? 

[00:58:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:26] Eldar: You know, you know the stuff. Yeah. You know this gig. Of course. You know what I mean? Like you had to be the hero 

[00:58:31] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:58:31] Eldar: For these girls. 

[00:58:32] Mike: Yes. 

[00:58:33] Eldar: Uh, anytime there was a problem, whether he didn't have money, he couldn't say like, yo, I don't have money.

[00:58:39] He went and borrowed money, for example. You know what I mean? He wasn't able to be honest with those people, so he had to keep manufacturing this thing, keep lie upon, lie upon, lie upon lie, in order to preserve a very specific image that he had ties himself to that he was a man. He was the man. 

[00:58:54] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:57] Eldar: Up until a point where he couldn't lie to himself anymore and he finally hit a wall.

[00:59:02] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:59:03] Eldar: You know, so yeah. You can just try to upkeep that for a long time and probably do a good job, you know, at lying to yourself. 

[00:59:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:12] Eldar: Conditioning that, becoming very good at it, then it's exhausting, you know? And life will happen. Gravity will happen, right? 

[00:59:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:22] Eldar: But the, the whole ship will burn. 

[00:59:23] Mike: It is exhausting, but it's, it's more familiar and known than the other side.

[00:59:28] It's to question yourself and to face yourself. It's also hard. It 

[00:59:33] Eldar: is. Yeah. 

[00:59:34] Mike: Well, yeah. Yes. Yeah, it is. Yeah. 'cause it requires, I think humility is one of the most challenging things. 

[00:59:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:59:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:44] Eldar: Yeah. And I think that's why, you know, when he had his, finally, his moment, right? He reached out to us, reached out to me, and said, Hey, I need help.

[00:59:50] The fuck is wrong with me. It's a full, now it's you in full bo blown depression. 

[00:59:56] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:56] Eldar: With confidence, bro. That's out the window. You built it on, on, what do they call them? Like, you know? 

[01:00:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:03] Eldar: House on fucking hay, you know? Yeah. House of Cards. Yeah. House of is, this house is built on out of cards. 

[01:00:10] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:10] Eldar: You know?

[01:00:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:11] Eldar: Then they become fo fully depressed. Yeah. And that's usually the trajectory to it, where like, yo, if you're depressed now because of all the wrongdoing you've been doing to yourself, you earned it. 

[01:00:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:21] Eldar: You know? 

[01:00:22] Mike: Oh, that's a hundred 

[01:00:22] Eldar: percent. And that's what all the questioning starts to come in. And, and the, in a place like our place here, when we question the fuck out of you, like now you can't hide.

[01:00:31] Now you have to answer the, the hard questions. Were you really honest with yourself and you clearly weren't? 

[01:00:36] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:36] Eldar: And then everything was poured out of him. Every day we came home after work, he was like, El, you know, we had a beer, and we're just sitting there chilling, talking for hours. He's telling me all the things that you've created.

[01:00:48] Mike: Oh yeah. 

[01:00:49] Eldar: The illusions. 

[01:00:49] Mike: Yeah. He would tell me stuff here. 

[01:00:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:00:51] Mike: Like when he was working here, he was like, yo, you know, that time when you asked me if I knew what was going on, I lied to you. 

[01:00:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:00:56] Mike: Because I didn't wanna look like I didn't know. 

[01:00:57] Eldar: There you go. 

[01:00:58] Mike: Yeah. I'm like, bro, like what are you talking about?

[01:01:00] This is so like, 

[01:01:01] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:01:01] Mike: Ridiculous for you. I have to correct. Put this in front of me. 

[01:01:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:01:04] Mike: He didn't care. 

[01:01:05] Eldar: He kept creating those images. 

[01:01:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:01:07] Eldar: Yeah. So he kept having all those examples, like Elda, like I've just, I've just became very good at this. 

[01:01:12] Mike: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:01:13] Eldar: You know, up until a point where you can't do it anymore, you know?

[01:01:18] And now he's obviously trying to rebuild back up. 

[01:01:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:22] Eldar: And that's good. There's gonna be a period of depression, but know. If a person comes to me, right? Mm-hmm. First they're asking for advice about confidence. Probably gonna say like, you, well find a way to get depressed as soon as possible. They're gonna be like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[01:01:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:01:37] Eldar: Well that's 'cause that's the trajectory. If you've been lying to yourself, you don't know how to be confident, right. You're gonna get hit in the head. Right now. Your ego needs to get hit, your pride needs to be checked, you know? 

[01:01:50] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:51] Eldar: And only with that, you can start feeling, uh, through pain a little bit, glimpses of reality and what's actually going on with yourself and with, with the world.

[01:02:03] Mike: Hmm. Yeah. 

[01:02:05] Eldar: And over time, if you align yourself in a accordance to the truth, like we're talking about, confidence would be the, a natural byproduct. Yeah. And you will illuminate, uh, illuminate. 

[01:02:17] Mike: Illuminate. I think so. 

[01:02:18] Eldar: Yeah. Illuminate, 

[01:02:18] Mike: yeah. 

[01:02:19] Eldar: Confidence. 

[01:02:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:02:22] Eldar: Otherwise, you're gonna continue to simple. Mm-hmm. Or you can always buy Andrew Tate's course.

[01:02:29] We can tell go punch somebody in the face in order to get some confidence. Yeah. So yeah, that's, that would be my advice. 

[01:02:35] Mike: Mm. 

[01:02:36] Eldar: So what do our final thoughts, do we have anything else? I think we sucked this bone dry. I'm holding a bone in my hand that, that fucking Archie sucked dry. 

[01:02:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:02:45] Eldar: Good job, buddy.

[01:02:48] Totally. Um, do you have anything else? Is it that simple? Is confidence that simple? 

[01:02:56] Toliy: It mean it's that hard? 

[01:02:58] Eldar: Yeah. No, but it's simple. No, the equation is simple. Yeah. 

[01:03:02] Toliy: But yeah. But the, uh, but, but the simplest things are the hardest. 

[01:03:05] Eldar: Yeah. You've said that on the previous episode, I think too. 

[01:03:07] Toliy: Yeah. You 

[01:03:09] Eldar: know. Yeah.

[01:03:10] You said, Hey, I'm gonna tell you, uh, when somebody comes and they say, you say like, this is what you have to do. And it's the simplest thing they can't do it. 

[01:03:17] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:18] Eldar: You know, over a long period of time, they're not gonna be able to sustain that. 

[01:03:22] Toliy: Yeah. Because. The simple fundamentals and principles are of life.

[01:03:27] They're not exciting enough for like your ego. 

[01:03:30] Eldar: Oh, that's 

[01:03:30] Toliy: a good one. You know? Mm-hmm. They're, they're, they're, they're not enticing enough. Wow. You know, but like a big end goal or a big this or that. Yeah. You know, like project. 

[01:03:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:03:41] Toliy: Oh, that's exciting. You know that that's enough to get your EE ego tickled.

[01:03:46] Yes. 

[01:03:46] Mike: That's 

[01:03:46] Eldar: also 

[01:03:46] Mike: gets you a little boner. That's the, that's the value system is flawed, right? 

[01:03:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:03:50] Mike: You know? 

[01:03:51] Eldar: Yeah. Well, it's backwards. It's backwards. Yeah. Everything is backwards, right? So you, you have these smokey mirrors in your, in your own head, and you constantly playing this trick on yourself.

[01:04:01] Resulting in mental health. 

[01:04:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:04:04] Eldar: Alright. I think this was great. Those are my final thoughts. Mike, you have anything else? No, no. I'm good. Nothing. This was great. Totally. That's it. Thank you guys. 

[01:04:11] Mike: All right.