200. Inner War

Are you living your own life, or are you a byproduct of the information you’ve been fed?

In this landmark Episode 200, the crew dives deep into the psychological battlefield of the "Inner War." We explore the dangerous friction between external influence and internal Self-Actualization. Eldar and Mike break down why we make unsound conclusions about our reality and how "silence" is the ultimate tool for Truthmaxxing. If you’ve ever felt like you’re just "roboting" through someone else’s plan, this episode is your guide to Radical Accountability and reclaiming your own mind.

We deconstruct the Mindmaxxing required to stop mapping destinations and start focusing on the quality of the journey. This is a masterclass in Performance Philosophy, revealing why passion isn't something you "find," but something that manifests when you are finally committed, curious, and aligned with your true self.

Key Takeaways:

• The Power of Silence: Why stumbling upon the truth requires the courage to stop and examine the silence.
• The Influence Audit: Identifying the individuals who are shaping your world view without your best interests at heart.
• Destination vs. Journey: Why obsessing over "where you are going" is a symptom of not knowing "who you are."
• Passion as a Side Effect: How concentration and a Growth Mindset lead to the very passion you've been chasing.

Insightful Moment:

"Silence is if you stumbled upon the truth. Don't just pick yourself up and go... that's an opportunity to examine it. And that is painful as fuck." — Mike

The Cliffhanger: We all claim to want the truth, but are you prepared for the "Inner War" that starts the moment you find it? Most people find the truth, pick themselves up, and keep running—but what happens to the man who chooses to stay in the pain of the silence?

Listen now to find out if you’re brave enough to win the war for your own soul.

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Chapters

• 6:24 Distraction as Pain Relief
• 17:38 Influencers and Lost Self
• 38:05 Ego War and Desire
• 48:59 Truth Seeking Ends Ego
• 1:02:19 Socrates and Not Knowing
• 1:11:44 Content Influence Trap
• 1:23:11 Passion Is the Process

Transcript

[00:00:00] Dennis: On this week's episode, 

[00:00:02] Mike: silence is if you stumbled upon the truth. Yeah. Don't just pick yourself up and go, yeah. That's an opportunity to do that. To examine it. Yeah. 

[00:00:09] Mike: And that is painful as fuck. 

[00:00:13] Eldar: If we don't start thinking for ourselves and really find out who we are and identify and to ourselves who we are, we're gonna continue to be influenced by certain individuals that not necessarily have our best interests at heart.

[00:00:25] Mike: Not where you are going, but how you get in there. Mm-hmm. And I think if you really pay attention to that of how you're doing things and why you're doing things, and I think that just a passion will be like a byproduct of it.

[00:00:44] Eldar: Alright guys, so tonight's topic is gonna be around the fact that. A lot of humans, a lot of us, a lot of people, um, we're constantly bombarded by so much information about the world, about reality, quote unquote. Um, and a lot of times the conclusions that we make are not really sound about the world. Why?

[00:01:05] Is because I truly think that, you know, especially, you know, some of the examples that we brought in earlier, like in sports for example, right? We don't really have the, uh, the actual picture of what's actually going on behind the scenes with anything, you know, uh, when it comes to politics, you know, and the conspiracy theories that constantly arising from those things, right?

[00:01:26] Uh, I don't know. The French president is with a man. 

[00:01:30] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:30] Eldar: And she has a dick. You know what I mean? Yeah. You've heard of that one. Yeah. Right. Uh, president Trump never got shot in the ear and it was a staged 

[00:01:36] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:01:37] Eldar: Event nine 11 was done by President Bush. Yeah. And that Osama Bin Laden. 

[00:01:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:01:42] Eldar: Right. Um, 

[00:01:43] Toliy: the Holocaust didn't exist.

[00:01:45] Eldar: The Holocaust did not exist. 

[00:01:46] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:01:47] Eldar: Uh, the Sandy Hook shootings of the kids never happened. Yeah. Right. Alex Jones was sued for that and went to jail or whatever. Right. So, uh, so what's happening is that we're constantly bombarded this by this information, by these headlines that all this stuff is going on.

[00:02:02] How do we actually make sense of it all? Because ultimately we are developing what most importantly feelings towards it. Mm-hmm. Attachments towards it. And a lot of times we carry what conversations with others about it. Right. So you said something about, Hey, my favorite racer Max said this, and then we start kind of analyzing what he said, or Kovich said this.

[00:02:22] Mm-hmm. You know, about we start analyzing. We come, we always usually come to the conclusion that we actually don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so we don't know how they actually feel. 

[00:02:31] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:32] Eldar: You know what I mean? About the stances that they do take. However we take, uh, pride in these things, we start getting amped up about it.

[00:02:41] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:42] Eldar: We actually invest emotions into these things. Yeah. 

[00:02:44] Toliy: You 

[00:02:45] Eldar: know, we run with the conspiracies and stuff like that. Whatever. Conclusion. Somebody else made, like maybe Candace Owens, who's very good at connecting the dots. Uh, you know, you are like, oh shit. You know what I mean? Like this conspiracy theory is, uh, it might be real.

[00:03:00] This one and that one, you know, whatever it is that you're currently suffering from that narrative might actually be an cyst. So you're like, ah, you see, like, you know, uh, healthcare is too much money. It's because of this or that. Like, and all these webs that we constantly develop in our minds, uh, what toll are they taking on us and how true are they?

[00:03:21] Mm-hmm. Even though the toll might be very serious. Right. Causes a lot of us stress. Um, personal stress. Emotional stress internally, but also sometimes it also spills out on what relationships. 

[00:03:33] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:34] Eldar: How many people got into a fight probably, or got into divorce or into relationship problems because of politics?

[00:03:40] Mike: Oh, of course 

[00:03:41] Eldar: we know, for example, Dan and Terry. 

[00:03:42] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:43] Eldar: No politics. That was the rule. No politics in the house, no politics in the house. Why? That was a strict rule 'cause they fucking knew. 

[00:03:51] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:51] Eldar: Every time they talk politics, they got into probably a huge fucking fight. You know what I mean? And it, and it, and it built a rift, you know?

[00:04:00] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:00] Eldar: So what can we actually believe? What should we believe? What should we intake in that intake? What should we discuss? Uh, take it as entertainment versus stuff that's like actually, okay, yeah. I can take this for myself and actually learn from it. This is an educational piece and not really like, get something out of it and actually develops me into a better person.

[00:04:19] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:20] Eldar: I feel like every time we talk about this stuff, especially external stuff, you know, you see shit or whatever it is. Right. We've come to conclusions that if we really analyze stuff, we can't come to any sound conclusion. 

[00:04:30] Mike: Mm. 

[00:04:30] Eldar: It's all speculative bullshit. 

[00:04:33] Mike: Well, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:04:34] Eldar: Tell me, is this a fucking problem?

[00:04:37] Mike: Yeah. I mean, 

[00:04:38] Eldar: how big is it? 

[00:04:39] Mike: I think, um. I think it is a, like, it is a big problem. I think we've all been saying this for many years. Like, 

[00:04:47] Eldar: uh, sorry, Mike, I'm gonna cut you off. I'm bringing this one in Epstein, right? 

[00:04:50] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:04:50] Eldar: This whole big thing about Epstein right now. 

[00:04:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:04:52] Eldar: I'm probably 99% sure in my mind that these motherfuckers were having maybe, uh, sex with underage kids.

[00:04:59] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:00] Eldar: But bro, like, I don't, I can't believe that they fucking were eating babies. 

[00:05:03] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:04] Eldar: Like, that's a little hard for me to believe. 

[00:05:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:06] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? But that's a like a big thing. Yeah. 

[00:05:08] Mike: Big thing 

[00:05:08] Eldar: that they had these rituals that they had. Did, did you hear this? 

[00:05:12] Mike: No. 

[00:05:12] Eldar: Okay. Well now you're hearing it.

[00:05:13] You see it. 

[00:05:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:14] Eldar: But they were eating babies, bro. Sacrificing babies. 

[00:05:17] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah, 

[00:05:17] Eldar: I heard this. You know, 

[00:05:18] Mike: it's crazy. 

[00:05:19] Eldar: It might be true. 

[00:05:20] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:20] Eldar: It might not. But it's a thing. 

[00:05:22] Mike: But yeah. 

[00:05:23] Eldar: And people are like, you know, like, like even Catherine was like, when she saw, she's like, oh, did you know that this was what's happening?

[00:05:28] I'm like, no, I didn't. Nor nor am I gonna waste my try to argue with you or give you any kind of emotional response here based on this. Because I don't know if, whether or not it's true. 

[00:05:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:38] Eldar: Sorry I cut you off, but like, that was a big one. Like, what the fuck? No, huge. 

[00:05:41] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:42] Eldar: Eating babies. 

[00:05:43] Mike: Uh, I was, I was gonna say like, uh, we always been saying this for a very long time, making mantle is not gonna pay your rent.

[00:05:49] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:49] Mike: Yes. And I think that, that explain that, that means like, who cares about Mickey Mantle? Because Mickey Mantle don't care about you. You got your own life, you got your own pros, your own things you gotta work on do. 

[00:05:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:00] Mike: So why do you care about somebody externally that doesn't know you? 

[00:06:04] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:04] Mike: As but you care more about him.

[00:06:07] Eldar: Yeah. Them 

[00:06:07] Mike: or them than you care about yourself. 

[00:06:09] Eldar: Yeah. Why, 

[00:06:11] Mike: um. Yeah, that's a good question. Why? You know, 

[00:06:15] Eldar: but this happens all the time. It doesn't have to be about caring by celebrities. 

[00:06:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:18] Eldar: It's about headlines. 

[00:06:19] Mike: Right. 

[00:06:19] Eldar: I think we're going to war all with this, with that and like we really don't fucking know anything.

[00:06:23] Mike: Yeah. In 

[00:06:24] Eldar: that sense. 

[00:06:24] Mike: Well, um, I think the reason it happens is because looking within is very difficult. You're that difficult, very, very unfamiliar 

[00:06:35] Eldar: uhhuh, 

[00:06:35] Mike: you know, like you guys were just playing Connect four. 

[00:06:37] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:38] Mike: And you know, you get to that moment, your brain is like about to explode. Yeah. You're trying to calculate 

[00:06:41] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:06:42] Mike: What moves to do, right? 

[00:06:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:44] Mike: I feel like that's, that's, that's how you feel when you're trying to solve a life problem and, but you don't have the resources or the tools, 

[00:06:53] Eldar: time, whatever 

[00:06:54] Mike: time, whatever it is like 

[00:06:56] Eldar: to do 

[00:06:56] Mike: it. You just don't have the tools. Like, it's like going into like a, into NASA program 

[00:07:02] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[00:07:03] Mike: With no experience and trying to solve how to like get this rocket into space. 

[00:07:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:08] Mike: Which is equivalent and it's how to like get your mind to start. Working. Yeah. Uh, how to jump start it or whatever. It's very challenging. It's very difficult. 

[00:07:17] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:17] Mike: Because you don't naturally think like, all right, look, let me go read some books or let go, 

[00:07:23] Eldar: let me solve these matters of my mind.

[00:07:24] Mike: Yeah. You don't think about that. 

[00:07:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:26] Mike: No. And, and if you do, you don't know where to start. Mm-hmm. Or it's just, yeah. I mean, part of these distractions, they help us to not face what's actually happening. 

[00:07:36] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:36] Mike: But we're not consciously saying it. 

[00:07:38] Eldar: We're not, 

[00:07:38] Mike: we're not, we're 

[00:07:39] Eldar: not saying that, we're not raising my hand and saying, I'm gonna do this for entertainment purposes right now.

[00:07:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:07:43] Eldar: No. We actually become invested 

[00:07:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:07:45] Eldar: Personally 

[00:07:46] Mike: into it. And emotionally I think it's like, um, again, subconsciously pain reliever as well. Okay. 

[00:07:54] Eldar: That's a good take. I like 

[00:07:55] Mike: that because it's a subconscious pain reliever. It's a subconscious. Yeah. Like, um, because like e even some days, like I really like that some days that, you know, you had like, um.

[00:08:06] I, I mean, from my own experience, some days I'm having like a rough day and then I come home at night and I know that like there's problems that I wanna solve, some things that I'm not happy about. 

[00:08:14] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:08:15] Mike: You know, something that I did throughout the day where I'm not like, happy with how I responded or how I reacted, or whatever it is.

[00:08:21] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:22] Mike: And like, I know it's a hard equation to solve. This is like trigonometry shit. I know I can't solve it, but I know what I need to do. I don't think about it. I just go and I put on the tv, I go and I watch some YouTube or something. Right. 

[00:08:33] Eldar: And I, I have nothing. Not, there's nothing wrong with putting on the tv, maybe shutting you off your mind and taking a break and entertaining yourself.

[00:08:39] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:08:39] Eldar: However, my problem is a bigger problem where when you get influenced by the tv 

[00:08:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:08:44] Eldar: In a very specific way. Right. One thing is to call me and say, Hey, Aldo, check out this love is blind situation. Mm-hmm. Whatever. We'll laugh about it. Yeah. You know, discuss it, whatever, whatever, and drop it and keep it moving.

[00:08:54] Mm-hmm. But another thing is to really invest yourself where you can start an argument with someone mm-hmm. You know, on the street or feel a certain type way. 

[00:09:01] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:09:01] Eldar: You start discriminating, uh, certain people. 

[00:09:03] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:04] Eldar: You know, family members or whatever. 

[00:09:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:09:06] Eldar: You know what I mean? Because you've now just consumed some piece of information on TV and now you've became it.

[00:09:12] Now you're carrying it and you're now actualizing it in real life. That's a big problem. 

[00:09:18] Mike: Well, that's how war start, right? 

[00:09:19] Eldar: Well, yeah. 

[00:09:19] Mike: Yeah, 

[00:09:20] Eldar: exactly. 

[00:09:20] Mike: Yeah. But yeah, I mean it's, is it evolutionary problem? You know? Is it an educational problem? 

[00:09:31] Eldar: That's a very interesting question. If it's, if it's a evolutionary problem.

[00:09:35] Mike: Yeah. Like, I, I was thinking about this a couple of weeks ago when I was talking to, uh, talking to, um, Scotty 

[00:09:43] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:09:43] Mike: About, um, about people going to jail. What's the purpose of people going to jail, right? 

[00:09:47] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:49] Mike: And I was like, well, and I was trying to like connect it to evolution, right? People go into jail, obviously not all of them.

[00:09:55] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:56] Mike: And maybe not a lot of them, right? But some people go into jail and they evolve. Right. How do they, how do people expedite evolution? Did I say that? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like there is a way to expedite, expedite evolution, I feel like by learning, by educating yourself. 

[00:10:12] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:10:13] Mike: So I was like, obviously, so there is a way for you to, you know, expedite that process.

[00:10:19] But people don't, maybe we don't talk about it. We don't think about it that way, but. People come in as criminals. They stay there for 20 years and they come out and they completely change. They have a different way of thinking they, you know, 

[00:10:30] Eldar: or not 

[00:10:31] Mike: they, or not. Yeah. 

[00:10:32] Eldar: Yeah. That 

[00:10:32] Mike: happens. Uh uh for sure. It's a rare, yeah.

[00:10:33] I would think it's rare. More rare, but people nonetheless do. Mm-hmm. They, some people have found a way to crack that evolution process where 

[00:10:40] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:10:41] Mike: They don't have to be stuck in the same belief system, go out outta jail and then commit the same crime. Yeah. Get back in jail. Yeah. Or they come out and they live a normal life.

[00:10:49] Eldar: You 

[00:10:50] Mike: know, maybe they go in there with 18 or 19 and come out when they're 30, 40. 

[00:10:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:53] Mike: And they're still young and they now, they wanna live a completely different way. I mean, I don't know them personally, but just like there are cases of 

[00:10:59] Eldar: this, again, to be able to, to def definitively say that jail was the catalyst in order to break that evolution process.

[00:11:05] I mean, expedite that evolution process. And when it comes to knowledge and learning, 

[00:11:09] Mike: yeah. 

[00:11:09] Eldar: You would have to examine a lot of cases to really see what actually happened. Right. Because jail, plenty of times, course 20 years they'll come out and they'll commit more crimes and all sort shit. 

[00:11:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:11:17] Eldar: But was it maturity?

[00:11:18] Was it environment? Who were you with? Yeah. What were you doing in that? Hundred 

[00:11:20] Mike: percent. 

[00:11:21] Eldar: There's so many things that's 

[00:11:22] Mike: behind 

[00:11:22] Eldar: it, 

[00:11:22] Mike: but I do think like education, getting educated, getting knowledge. Yeah. And then putting into items into action is an expedited way to, to evolve from Yes. Who you are to who you are.

[00:11:32] That's, I don't think, I'm not sure if there's another way. 

[00:11:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:35] Mike: Without getting educated and learning. So I agree with that. Yeah. So I thought that was an interesting thing where you can, but it's not just, it's a very rare thing I would guess. I don't think it's very common. That, that's what the, the normal is for people going to jail.

[00:11:52] Eldar: Mm-hmm. But 

[00:11:53] Mike: maybe at the root of it, it's supposed to be to help people to evolve from mm-hmm. Whatever got them in there in the first place. 

[00:11:58] Eldar: Well, 

[00:11:59] Mike: I 

[00:11:59] Eldar: think that jail intent, jail's intent is to probably rehabil. Yeah. Unfortunately, I don't think that jail's a set up in the proper way to be able to do that right now.

[00:12:07] You know? Especially things that you hear at least, you know. Yeah. Again, but we don't know. 

[00:12:11] Mike: We don't know, 

[00:12:12] Eldar: you know, which jail. 

[00:12:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:12:13] Eldar: The one in Florida, or the one in California in New York, or 

[00:12:15] Mike: the one over there in Sweden where they drive, they drive in every morning on their own to jail. 

[00:12:19] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:12:20] Mike: Like the guy who has a car and he drives to jail.

[00:12:22] Eldar: Sick in gardens. 

[00:12:23] Mike: Yeah, 

[00:12:24] Eldar: yeah, 

[00:12:24] Mike: yeah. Which is, yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. We don't know. 

[00:12:29] Toliy: Yeah. I think it's like, um, the thing is that, um, we're we're talking about, um, potential people going to jail and then kind of being forced to like, in like a way either. You either get probably more angry mm-hmm. Or you self-reflect.

[00:12:50] Right? 

[00:12:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:12:50] Toliy: But I think that whether you're put in what's physically now, like, it's like jail to me is like, if, if, if you go to jail, you're, you're just now understanding that you're physically in jail. Right? Like you're just physically in jail. 

[00:13:07] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:08] Toliy: But I think that, um, those people and just other people, like in, um, in general, they're still in jail even if they're not in jail.

[00:13:17] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:18] Toliy: In physical jail. 

[00:13:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:19] Toliy: And I think that like the only, like ev everyone's in a form of jail. Just in, in actual jail, you actually know, know that you're in jail, right? Mm-hmm. Because you're physically there. 

[00:13:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:31] Toliy: And you have no choice. 

[00:13:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:13:33] Toliy: And it's really in your face, right? 

[00:13:34] Mike: That's right. Yeah. 

[00:13:35] Toliy: But.

[00:13:36] Far before that you were still, you were still in jail, just you didn't know it yet. 

[00:13:39] Mike: That's right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It, it's like a progression if you're suffering mm-hmm. You're making mistakes, you're being stupid, you suffer. Right? Yeah. Uh, if you don't learn fast enough, you get into a place where the suffering is even more intense, I think.

[00:13:55] Eldar: Well, yeah. That's why we talked about in the other episode where we have to find the each person's pain threshold. 

[00:14:00] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:01] Eldar: Yes. To where you push that pain enough to say, okay, this probably my rock bottom or whatever. I don't wanna experience this pain anymore. Yeah. Or you don't wanna experience this pain anymore.

[00:14:08] Well, you have to learn. Mm-hmm. You have to evolve. Yeah. Like you said, otherwise you die. 

[00:14:12] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:12] Eldar: You perish or you go to jail, whatever it is. 

[00:14:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:14:16] Toliy: Yeah. I just feel like, also like with, when it comes to all these different, you know, perspectives or like, you know, talking about sports or all these like, like a a, a lot of it to me stemmed around like social, just like.

[00:14:30] Social economics. Right. And like social like 

[00:14:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:14:33] Toliy: Like humans are so social beings. 

[00:14:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:14:36] Toliy: And, um, a a big thing that I think everyone is e either consciously or probably more likely, um, subconsciously trying to figure out is they're trying to figure out their identity and navigate the world. Um, 

[00:14:52] Eldar: okay. 

[00:14:52] Toliy: And part of figuring out your identity is, is speaking to people.

[00:14:57] And oftentimes people feel that in order to speak to people, they need to understand what's going on and they need to have inputs and they, they need to 

[00:15:06] Eldar: bounce themselves 

[00:15:07] Toliy: off. They need to, yeah. They need to be able to have interact conversations and interact. And this is what a lot of people go off of, again, like entertainment based things, mu music, movies, sports, those are like the big, like three things, right?

[00:15:23] Like, like for, for, for entertainment. You know, um, so, and, and, and politics probably in that, like that, that's probably, 

[00:15:31] Eldar: uh, my, my claim here is that, uh, most people, I would say 99.9% of people actually are not doing a good job at interacting with one another or interpreting the events of the world. 

[00:15:42] Toliy: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:43] Eldar: Because they're so confusing and there's not much truth there that lots of digging. It just kind of always gets us nowhere. 

[00:15:49] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:49] Eldar: And then a lot of times we get into misunderstandings. 

[00:15:52] Toliy: Yeah. But that's the thing. Is that like, what, what are those people supposed to do 

[00:15:56] Eldar: that? No, now that's a very good question.

[00:16:00] Toliy: Yeah. Like they're, you're, you're talking about people who are basically, I ignorant but don't know, know it. So they 

[00:16:06] Eldar: see, 

[00:16:07] Toliy: they'll, they'll, they'll do the things that will get them into trouble again. This is like the Socrates thing. Like these people aren't knowingly digging themselves into this damn pit.

[00:16:17] Eldar: Yeah. They 

[00:16:17] Toliy: Right. They're not. And then getting into they're the scuffles or they're doing that. 

[00:16:20] Eldar: They're not, but that's a good question. What should they be doing? 

[00:16:22] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I ignorant people in those scenarios are going to probably react in I ignorant ways. So that, that to me is just like a normal process and a normal part of a, 

[00:16:34] Eldar: alright, so how about the people that, that do know, like I, for example, right, like when I watch the news or mm-hmm.

[00:16:39] I'm trying to like, dissect it in such a way where it's like, okay, what's actually, what am I listening to? Like, what is being said here? And if things don't make sense to me, I obviously don't internalize it. I don't share it. Mm-hmm. I don't want to like, I don't wanna confuse other people and stuff like that, you know?

[00:16:52] Toliy: Oh, yeah. But you're YY yeah. But you're talking about like, you're, you're coming here from a scenario like, 

[00:16:59] Eldar: I don't wanna pollute you, you know, pollute 

[00:17:00] Toliy: others. 

[00:17:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:17:01] Toliy: Well pollute others. But you also like when, when you watch things. I think that because you have a strong, a very strong base and foundation of like understanding of, of just like how the world works and, and, and like, and like identity of yourself 

[00:17:18] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:17:18] Toliy: When you watch things, you don't have to watch things in like an effort to, to like learn. You can watch things for what it is and just kind of like leave, leave it there. But if you don't know who you are and what the world, like, what's the purpose of the world and what's the purpose of things? I think you often are subconsciously watching for, for, uh, it like you.

[00:17:40] You're being influenced. 

[00:17:41] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:17:41] Toliy: You know? 

[00:17:42] Eldar: No, no. But 

[00:17:42] Toliy: you don't know it. 

[00:17:43] Eldar: I think you have to structure that thing that you are really onto something here you are watching something subconsciously and you're looking to be influenced. 

[00:17:51] Toliy: You're looking to be 

[00:17:51] Eldar: influenced. 'cause you are, you are not sure what the fuck who you are.

[00:17:55] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:17:55] Eldar: You see this? 

[00:17:56] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:17:56] Eldar: This is a very important good point. Well, and guess what? Yeah. And guess what? There's plenty out there motherfuckers. They call them influencers. Mm-hmm. Yes. For a reason. 

[00:18:05] Toliy: For a reason. Yeah. 

[00:18:06] Eldar: To influence. They're gonna tell your fucking dumb ass on how to fucking live and think. 

[00:18:09] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:18:09] They're gonna tell you what to do, how to do it, and why. 

[00:18:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:12] Toliy: You know? Mm-hmm. And then you look up to these people, you see this, but they, they have a flawed foundation to begin with, but you're already too far the rabbit hole and you trust them and you, you're, yeah. You're, you're subconsciously learning at such a fast rate as to like what they do, how they do it, that like.

[00:18:28] This becomes your base, this actually becomes like a piece of your identity or so you think 

[00:18:33] Eldar: No, 

[00:18:33] Toliy: you know, 

[00:18:34] Eldar: you become it. 

[00:18:35] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:18:35] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Piece of, and then you have to do what You have to protect it. 

[00:18:39] Toliy: Yeah. It's like we don't watch like UFC or like for example, that and then, I don't know, wanna fight or like 

[00:18:45] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:18:45] Toliy: Are like, yeah. Or, or, or, or like we think these people who are like running it are like godly or like the, the best people ever or like the dopest people ever. We could watch it for who they are. Like Yeah, sure. Like we can probably say that like, Hey, as a promoter in combat sports, Dana White does a good job, for example.

[00:19:03] Yeah. Like we could say that like he did. Like he was good at what he was doing when he was doing it, right? Mm-hmm. Will, will, will he continue? We'll, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. You know, but like, we can say that like, yeah, we was, 

[00:19:14] Eldar: but plenty of people will not, not gonna say we'll see. Plenty of people are gonna say he will.

[00:19:17] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:17] Yeah. 

[00:19:18] Toliy: And 

[00:19:18] Eldar: then 

[00:19:18] Toliy: you have a 

[00:19:18] Eldar: fight. 

[00:19:19] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Then you have a fight. But at, at the end of the day, like we could, we understand like for example, Dana White could be good at this, but we also know in the back of our heads, like, he's probably really bad at this, this, and this and this. Mm-hmm. And I think that's the difference is that a lot of people will watch him, um, and they will, um, put these people in like a holy, like a light, you know?

[00:19:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:19:39] Toliy: That they can't do wrong or like that they have it figured out. They know what happiness is, they know what success is. So like, again, 

[00:19:45] Eldar: well, next thing you know, he's slapping his wife on the, on, on in public. 

[00:19:48] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. It's like someone could be like the, this is also what happens where like people who think that like making money for example, or being rich is like the most important achievement.

[00:19:59] To have because they assume that the people who have a lot of money are really happy or do the right thing or live the right. They know what's 

[00:20:05] Eldar: up 

[00:20:05] Toliy: and they know what's up. 

[00:20:06] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:20:07] Toliy: They can't just say like, Hey, how about we just say that person? Um, not, not sure like how he made the money, but he was, he made a lot of money and that's it.

[00:20:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:17] Toliy: Right. Whether he did it ethically, morally, 

[00:20:20] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:20:20] Toliy: Whether it took him a long time, a short time. 

[00:20:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:22] Toliy: How he did it. That's irrelevant. Was there nepotism involved? Yes. Was there cheating? Was there this, 

[00:20:27] Eldar: was 

[00:20:28] Toliy: it your daddy was there stealing? Yeah. Was it your dad? Yeah. Right. What, like, what, what's going on here?

[00:20:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:33] Toliy: You know? 

[00:20:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:34] Toliy: So, but no one actually like, thinks about those kinds of variables, but Yeah. Because they don't know who, who they are. Someone else says, 

[00:20:43] Mike: but, but, 

[00:20:43] Toliy: um, help, help, help them find it. They're, 

[00:20:45] Mike: they're not consciously, uh. But like, they're not consciously understanding that they're giving their own power away.

[00:20:51] Right. 

[00:20:52] Eldar: See, totally said. We're very interesting that you subconsciously are putting you on the TV and the headlines, you're reading the headlines because you want to be influenced. 

[00:21:00] Toliy: Yeah. The thing is that you have, you can't be in the state of limbo of not knowing like, who you are. Like you need an identity.

[00:21:09] So if you're, if, if you don't, I like, I, I don't think those people ever, like, they're, they're, they're, they're not giving anything away. I don't think they ever had the power. 

[00:21:17] Mike: Well, they're not consciously giving it away. 

[00:21:19] Toliy: Well, well, 

[00:21:20] Mike: that's not, it's not possible to consciously give away your power. 

[00:21:23] Toliy: Yeah. Like if you know your power, they never, they, they, they never had it to begin with.

[00:21:26] Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, because they never had it to begin with, they need someone that's going to 

[00:21:31] Eldar: tell 'em how to live. 

[00:21:32] Toliy: Yeah. Tell them what, tell, tell, tell them their identity. Mm-hmm. Um, but I think Mo most people don't have like an identity like that. Like most people don't know like. Who they are or what they actually stand for.

[00:21:43] And 

[00:21:43] Eldar: yeah, 

[00:21:44] Toliy: I think a lot of people could say like, yeah, I'm with this, or I'm about this. But then push comes to shove 

[00:21:49] Eldar: what you about. Yeah. 

[00:21:50] Toliy: Are you actually about it? 

[00:21:51] Eldar: Yeah. So I mean, what is our job besides, uh, mind maxing, right? What is our job? Our job is to, at least in this podcast, so what we're trying to do is to maybe give some kind of a warning where it's like, look, truth of the matter is, look, there's a hole right there.

[00:22:10] We see it. You're going towards the hole. You are gonna hurt yourself when you fall down that hole. 

[00:22:15] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:15] Eldar: Right? Give the heads up, give a warning. Maybe this is what's actually going on and this is gonna continue to go on. If you don't, uh, flip the switch of 

[00:22:23] Toliy: mm-hmm. 

[00:22:24] Eldar: Your mind, you start working on yourself.

[00:22:28] Start thinking things through, start reasoning and start employing your own abilities. God-given, let's just say abilities 

[00:22:36] Mike: mm-hmm. That 

[00:22:36] Eldar: are installed in you in order to discern what the fuck is going on. Because if you don't, somebody else will. But guess what? Their plan might not be ironed out properly.

[00:22:47] Right. Who are you following? Who are you actually following that's gonna actually, you, you, you're so sure that's gonna, uh, bring you there, right? Yeah. Which influencer, who, you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:07] Toliy: Yeah. But I don't think that you, you need to be sure. You just need to see, like, there, there's a big disconnect.

[00:23:14] I feel like those people have between like li, like they, they don't have a one-to-one linear relationship between feelings and logic, you know? 

[00:23:24] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:24] Toliy: So as long as something like feels good, then for them, it is good at, at that time. 

[00:23:32] Eldar: Well, yeah. That's because their, their minds may be a little bit immature.

[00:23:36] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. But they, but at the end of the day, I think everyone still needs I then, right. And all of these political things, sports things, movies, things, music things. 

[00:23:47] Eldar: Why can't there be an identity where it's like, I don't know, 

[00:23:50] Toliy: because that, that, that is like the scariest place that mm-hmm. Any human can be in.

[00:23:55] Eldar: Because, but even though, even though, like, you, you can't more and more, that is, that, that space gives me a lot more of, of peace. 

[00:24:02] Mike: No, but 

[00:24:02] Toliy: that, but you're not afraid. That's because 

[00:24:03] Eldar: you're 

[00:24:03] Mike: not on that 

[00:24:04] Eldar: side. 

[00:24:04] Toliy: Yeah. But you're also not afraid of being in, in that kind of space. But to, to. Admit any kind of incompetence and admit that you actually Yeah.

[00:24:14] You talk, you talk about 

[00:24:15] Eldar: that all the time. Yeah. In the public space. Yeah. 

[00:24:17] Toliy: No one's gonna do that. No. That's why everyone's like, Hey, like 

[00:24:21] Eldar: I know. Yeah. I know the shit. 

[00:24:22] Toliy: And they prove and, and they try to show that they know by showing what, what they know. 

[00:24:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:26] Toliy: But yeah, you cannot be like, fake it till you make it.

[00:24:30] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Al I also, I find, find, the more, I find areas where we get to a place in a conversation and we realize that like, oh shit, we're stumped. And like, we can't have a conversation 'cause we don't have actual factual things. 

[00:24:42] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:43] Eldar: Nothing brings me more happiness than to say, yo, I actually don't know, bro.

[00:24:46] You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Because like, it's like absorbs me off, like responsibility. Like I can think more buys me time. Yeah. You know what I mean? Likes 

[00:24:53] Toliy: Yeah. You're conscious about this phenomenon. 

[00:24:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:56] Toliy: And, and, and you're comfortable with it. That's the 

[00:24:58] Eldar: I love it. 

[00:24:59] Toliy: Yeah. See, most people are not comfortable to be put in a position where they, they have to admit to themselves and to others that they're not competent.

[00:25:08] Who do you know? That's like, uh, 

[00:25:09] Eldar: that's a crazy burden to carry. 

[00:25:10] Toliy: Yeah, 

[00:25:12] Eldar: yeah. Of knowing like, that's a crazy burden. 

[00:25:17] Toliy: Yeah. Like, think about it, like, 

[00:25:19] Eldar: that's crazy. Wherever you are. Socrates really fucking, he nailed it, bro. 

[00:25:22] Toliy: Yeah. Like wherever you are, where, like, for example, if you're a parent, 

[00:25:25] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:25:25] Toliy: Right? 

[00:25:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:27] Toliy: Can you not know?

[00:25:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:30] Toliy: You're, you just got hired a new job. 

[00:25:33] Mike: Yeah. Are 

[00:25:34] Toliy: you really gonna say that you don't know how to do this? 

[00:25:36] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I think about like, um, you better fucking know, I think about this thing, like, uh, people are not comfortable with silence. Right? 

[00:25:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:45] Mike: Like, I think that's a, that's a big thing. Um, and when you do get silent right?

[00:25:51] A lot of people, ti people start to go into the head, it start to overthink. 

[00:25:54] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:25:54] Mike: Start to like, you know, 

[00:25:55] Eldar: there's no control 

[00:25:56] Mike: over it. There's no control. 

[00:25:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:57] Mike: And I think that's, that's where all these things come in place. Mm-hmm. Right? Like if me and you work in the same place. Mm-hmm. Right. We in, we are in like a, you know, setting where it's like we're together, whatever, we're at lunch together or we kind of like, you know, work in the same M area M we mingle.

[00:26:15] Right? Like that cooler talk thing. Mm-hmm. Whatcha gonna talk about, you know, you have to have something to talk about. And you're not gonna talk about your like thoughts when you're silent. 

[00:26:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:24] Mike: And you can't have silence because everybody just feels awkward when it's silent. Right. Like that's not 

[00:26:29] Eldar: a 

[00:26:29] Mike: normal 

[00:26:29] Eldar: No, I get it.

[00:26:30] I get it. Like, I mean, I mean the example, the thing is, the example is right, but the example is so like easy for me. It's like, it doesn't really apply. 

[00:26:37] Mike: No, I know It doesn't apply for you. You know what I mean? But, but, but that's actually what's happening. 

[00:26:42] Eldar: I know, I know what you're talking 

[00:26:42] Mike: about. People are so scared of the silence.

[00:26:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:44] Mike: They have to fill the air with, with nothing, 

[00:26:46] Eldar: with the what's 

[00:26:47] Mike: tomorrow? Which is nothing. What's 

[00:26:48] Eldar: the weather tomorrow? 

[00:26:48] Mike: What's the, what's the weather? What's the Michael Jordan, LeBron James? What are they doing? You know? 

[00:26:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:55] Mike: And because it helps them to not think about what they're actually going through.

[00:26:59] Yeah. 

[00:27:01] Eldar: Yeah. And, uh, the thing is, right, the, the reason why I say that, it doesn't really apply to me when it comes to these things. 'cause I, you know, I know how to extract that. Even out of those smallest conversations, the stupidest ones, you know, about the weather or whatever, you know, the interesting parts about human psychology.

[00:27:16] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:16] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. Depending on how people present themselves, what they say. 

[00:27:19] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:20] Eldar: Something about like, even, you know, Tara's like, oh, I hate snow snow's. Not like, you could say a lot, you could see a lot. You could, 

[00:27:25] Mike: yeah. 

[00:27:26] Eldar: Make comments where you can, you know, uh. Change the direction of the conversation from it just being snow 

[00:27:32] Mike: Yeah.

[00:27:32] Eldar: Or bad weather to like something more intricate and more 

[00:27:35] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:27:35] Eldar: Intimate and deeper than just that. 

[00:27:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:27:38] Eldar: You know? But, you know, I, I mean I've been doing this for a while. 

[00:27:42] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:27:42] Eldar: So I, you know, I learn how to enjoy that for sure. Because I don't enjoy just surface level bullshit as well. 

[00:27:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:27:48] Eldar: Unless it's, uh, you know, we can get somewhere 

[00:27:50] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:27:50] Eldar: That's more real. 

[00:27:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:27:52] Eldar: I mean, it's just not interesting obviously. 

[00:27:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:56] Eldar: You know, but that, but that's what it ultimately is. It comes down to like, how come, how can we extract the most amount of fondant pleasure out of the conversations and not allow the quote unquote influence to influencers or influences out there from the world to disturb our peace, disturb our fun and everything else.

[00:28:16] And that's what I'm talking about. Mm-hmm. Talking about the fact that, look, a lot of people are getting emotionally compromised by all the stuff that, that we allow. All the people to tell us how things are and what they are and how they interpret the world. Um, and it's, for some reason they are being propped up.

[00:28:36] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. The thing is that when you're wrong about like a lot of things, the more feelings you have towards, towards, towards things. Like, you know, like my Emma does the same thing. She's like, oh, it's gonna be like, so, so, so much snow. This is terrible. 

[00:28:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:51] Toliy: Like, that's a very concrete feeling. Yeah. This is gonna be terrible.

[00:28:55] And I'm like, why? 

[00:28:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:57] Toliy: Like, she's like, well, like, you know, like she gives, like, she starts giving reasons as if she has to shovel it. 

[00:29:03] Eldar: Yeah. She doesn't, 

[00:29:03] Toliy: she needs to go out in the road and like go get shit done. 

[00:29:06] Eldar: Yeah. She stays home all anyway. 

[00:29:08] Toliy: He's gonna be home anyway. 

[00:29:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:09] Toliy: Like, everyone's gonna be home is a, not like better to like, spend time.

[00:29:13] There you go together, 

[00:29:13] Eldar: you go. Yeah. 

[00:29:14] Toliy: Right. Like 

[00:29:15] Eldar: there's a lot more positives than negatives 

[00:29:16] Toliy: probably. Yeah. Like it's, it's a need to calm down a bit, right? Yeah. Like not go nuts and shopping or like all of these different things. 

[00:29:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:23] Toliy: Right. Like, 

[00:29:24] Eldar: you see your mind, you have the ability, your mind to go and choose where you 

[00:29:28] want 

[00:29:28] Toliy: to be.

[00:29:28] Yeah, like, like to, to, to, to me, like the, uh, the way that it, like when people speak that kind of way, it, there's like an ugliness to to it, because like Yeah, like, it, it, it, it puts me off in a particular way of like, why, like, why, why do you feel so strongly about this, this thing? And like, how are you saying that it's such a bad thing?

[00:29:49] Like, what, what are 

[00:29:51] Eldar: you talking about? But you see, you're talking about the same type of conflict, right? Yeah. Obviously she's, you know, she's heard this rhetoric for a very long time and she adopted it from other people who also feel certain type of way about snow or bad weather. 

[00:30:03] Toliy: Yeah. And like, I, like I, every, every time she's saying this, like I'm saying the opposite, I'm like, 

[00:30:07] Eldar: yeah.

[00:30:07] Toliy: She's like, oh, like I hope it's not more than like a foot. I'm like, I hope it's three feet. Yeah. You know, like, I like Yeah. Like that, that would actually be awesome. 

[00:30:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:15] Toliy: You know? 

[00:30:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:16] Toliy: She's like, no, no, don't say that. Don't say that. You know, and I'm like, 

[00:30:20] Eldar: you're trolling her. 

[00:30:20] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Be, yeah.

[00:30:22] Yeah. Yeah. It's like the more the, the more things that like, those kinds of people like, um, say that like they feel 

[00:30:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:32] Toliy: The, the more in trouble that they get. Yeah. But they can't help themselves. 

[00:30:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:36] Toliy: Because like their feelings are coming from wrong perceptions to begin with. Yeah. But again, that's only because they're ignorant to what's correct and not correct.

[00:30:46] Eldar: Are these people, uh, there for you to have, enjoy yourself even more, um, like. You know what I'm saying? If you know how to engage them properly 

[00:30:57] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:30:57] Eldar: You see what's happening. 

[00:30:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:30:58] Eldar: If you've learned how to properly engage them. Mm-hmm. And totally is now trolling his grandma or me, trolling you. Trolling them.

[00:31:04] Right? 

[00:31:04] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:05] Eldar: These people are almost like, they're perfect, bro. They're like, you know, what do they call MPCs? Mm-hmm. Right? With all these stupid ass like, you know, ideas or whatever. You could just have fun and troll them. 

[00:31:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:31:15] Eldar: Uncontrollably 

[00:31:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:31:17] Eldar: Forever. 

[00:31:17] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:18] Eldar: And it never gets old. Yeah. 

[00:31:20] Toliy: Yeah. But I, but I also think that like, yes, you can troll, troll them and stuff like that, but they also like, because of their ignorances they, and arrogance.

[00:31:30] Yeah. Arrogance. They kind of prevent like real, genuine relationships. 

[00:31:34] Eldar: I agree 

[00:31:35] Toliy: with you. From, for, for, for like, like to, to like form with you. 

[00:31:38] Eldar: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:38] Toliy: Yeah. So eventually it's like, yeah, you could talk to them, but it's like to, to, to me it's like only for so much because you cannot have, um. A really good, genuine conversation with them.

[00:31:54] Like it's, it's, it's difficult. 

[00:31:56] Eldar: Why do you have that attachment then? 

[00:31:58] Toliy: No, I, no, it's not that like you have that like attachment, it, it just that like, um, no, no, no. There isn't like an attachment there because 

[00:32:08] Eldar: you say like, Hey, well you can't really have a relationship, a real relationship. 

[00:32:11] Toliy: No. Yeah. I'm just saying that like, you, you, you kind of can't because of 

[00:32:14] Eldar: like, but when you say that, it's like, you know, it's like the sentiment is like, you want to, you'd like to, 

[00:32:19] Toliy: well, no, I mean, if there's an opportunity that, that, that presents you, sure.

[00:32:22] But if not, like, I understand that, but it's also like they're stopping their own development for, for, first off, they're stopping their own development and they're stopping like proper social relationships that actually make sense and that actually like, feel good to have 

[00:32:38] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:32:38] Toliy: From like, prospering because like they, they, they don't know what, what to say or how to like act.

[00:32:45] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:45] Toliy: And they have such strong. Things, uh, like such strong feelings about things that don't actually matter. Like if, if, like, if, if you can't have a conversation with somebody without, I don't know, getting angry or like just be able to like actually hold a conversation that involves like a disagreement, let's just say.

[00:33:05] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:05] Toliy: And you can't come out of it with like, realizing what's actually right or wrong or like that it, it, it definitely makes it diff difficult to speak to those kinds of people. 

[00:33:16] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:16] Toliy: Absolutely. And oftentimes you actually don't find out who these people are until you guys actually disagree on something.

[00:33:23] Yes. And oftentimes people will have these relationships with pe, with, with, with each other. And like, they maybe will see each other like, I don't know, once a month or once every few months, right? 

[00:33:32] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:33] Toliy: And they're like, oh yeah. Like, I get along good with like X, Y, and Z. 

[00:33:36] Eldar: Oh, we love them. 

[00:33:36] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. And then you get into a disagreement 

[00:33:39] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:33:39] Toliy: With that person. And then you really see, oh. 

[00:33:42] Eldar: That's the 

[00:33:42] Toliy: relationship. You can't have a conversation with this person. Like that's the actual reality. The 

[00:33:46] Eldar: reality, 

[00:33:46] Toliy: because everybody could just talk about a UFC fight or talk about like 

[00:33:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:33:50] Toliy: The weather, the show or like Yeah, the weather or like a movie.

[00:33:53] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:53] Toliy: Right? 

[00:33:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:33:54] Toliy: But can you actually dis disagree on something and try to figure out like what's the actual truth of the matter 

[00:33:59] Eldar: and how will you come out out of 

[00:34:00] Toliy: it? Yeah. With like, without your egos getting crazy involved. The, the, the, um, the answer I think most times is no. So that's why I think people do stick to sports and weather 

[00:34:14] Eldar: well, because they're, they are sports and weather.

[00:34:16] No, 

[00:34:17] Toliy: well, they are sports and weather. They're talking about sports and weather. They, they, they, they prevent the opportunity of being wrong because oftentimes, especially in sports. Who's the goat? Who's the goat? Jordan or LeBron? Yeah. 

[00:34:29] Eldar: Yeah. By leave it to interpretation. 

[00:34:31] Toliy: Okay. You say Jordan, someone else says LeBron.

[00:34:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:33] Toliy: Alright. I said 

[00:34:34] Eldar: vanilla. You say chocolate. 

[00:34:35] Toliy: Yeah. This is an opinion, 

[00:34:36] Eldar: correct? 

[00:34:37] Toliy: Right. 

[00:34:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:37] Toliy: Because when you say who's the great greatest, for example, um, it's a very vague, like there's many things I could say it. 

[00:34:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:46] Toliy: Now, if you said, for example, who has the most points in NBA history. 

[00:34:50] Eldar: That's it. 

[00:34:50] Toliy: That's LeBron.

[00:34:51] Eldar: We could talk about that. 

[00:34:52] Toliy: You can't say George Jordan has the most points. 

[00:34:54] Eldar: You can's statistically proven. 

[00:34:55] Toliy: Right? 

[00:34:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:56] Toliy: Then, then you could say, well, how about who has the most points per game played? 

[00:34:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:00] Toliy: I think that might be, uh, Jordan for example. 

[00:35:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:03] Toliy: You know, 

[00:35:03] Eldar: average for example. 

[00:35:04] Toliy: Yeah. Average based on how much, how many games he played.

[00:35:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:07] Toliy: Right. 

[00:35:07] Eldar: Yeah. Based on how many years he stayed in 

[00:35:09] Toliy: there. Yes. But 

[00:35:10] Eldar: you can't say that. You can't say, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:35:11] Toliy: That Jordan has more points than LeBron. He doesn't 

[00:35:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:14] Toliy: That like 

[00:35:14] Yeah. 

[00:35:14] Toliy: He, he he way surpassed them. 

[00:35:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:16] Toliy: You know, 

[00:35:17] Eldar: but that's the thing. You have to be able to communicate properly. Yeah. And communicate in more ab absolutes.

[00:35:22] Toliy: Yeah. But that's the thing is that communicating in absolutes. Is a a, uh, it's, it's like an antidote to re retardation. 

[00:35:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:30] Toliy: And people will avoid absolutes because they prefer to keep the retardation. 

[00:35:36] Eldar: Why? 

[00:35:37] Toliy: Because it's a Mike said it and it's a forever conversation. It's, it, it makes money. No. Like it's, no, it's, it's, it's everything.

[00:35:46] It's social, just like a 

[00:35:48] Eldar: No, it's not. You know what Mike said? 

[00:35:51] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:35:51] Eldar: I never wrote this down because it's gonna be a good, good t-shirt. By the way, if you guys wanna buy our merch, um, right now it's not existent. It's metaphysical. 

[00:36:01] Mike: You could buy NFT of it if you want. 

[00:36:02] Eldar: Oh, yes. That's a very good point. And NFT Mike runs those, those things.

[00:36:06] Yes. So reach out directly to him. Yeah. And he'll create one. Yes. It's a subconscious pain reliever. Yeah. That's what it is. 

[00:36:16] Mike: And nobody's comfortable with silence, 

[00:36:18] Eldar: you see? Yeah. 

[00:36:19] Mike: Nobody's comfortable with silence, 

[00:36:20] Eldar: you see, because silence then to some degree, right. Uh, it's a forceful thing to look within silence and look into your soul.

[00:36:27] Mike: Silence is if you stumbled upon the truth. 

[00:36:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:36:31] Mike: Don't just pick yourself up and go, 

[00:36:32] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:36:33] Mike: That's an opportunity to do that, 

[00:36:34] Eldar: to examine it. Yeah. 

[00:36:35] Mike: And that is painful as fuck. 

[00:36:38] Eldar: For most 

[00:36:39] Mike: people 

[00:36:39] Eldar: it is easier to say, LeBron Jordan, 

[00:36:42] Mike: it's sunny out. 

[00:36:43] Eldar: Wow. It's sunny out. Yeah. 

[00:36:44] Mike: It's cold out. 

[00:36:45] Eldar: Yeah. It's 

[00:36:45] Mike: gonna snow this weekend.

[00:36:46] Eldar: See, that's a, that's a very interesting thing Yeah. About that. People 

[00:36:50] Toliy: in general though, don't actually know that there's, that, there're like, when, when, when you hear people debate these kinds of things like Jordan or LeBron, what, the way that they talk about things, it's like they're actually gonna get to a place where like a truth is gonna be found.

[00:37:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:04] Toliy: But they don't like realize that they're engaging in something that has No, no, no factual answers. Mm-hmm. And how it's being posed. 

[00:37:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:12] Toliy: So therefore. These same people just rinse and repeat. Like, these media companies just just have like, it's endless. Yeah. Yeah. It's endless 

[00:37:21] Eldar: thing analysts picking for the, for the, for the dumb.

[00:37:22] Toliy: Yeah. And every few years this conversation arises. It'll arise over and over again 

[00:37:27] Eldar: forever. 

[00:37:27] Toliy: Because it's a non, it, it, it never, like, it's not a closed argument into it. It's not closed argument. You cannot bring an end to it. Yeah. Until you start being, bringing in specifics. But I, I ignorance, I feel like it, it, it thrives in, in the vague, vague, like, uh, the vagueness world.

[00:37:43] Yeah. 

[00:37:44] Eldar: Well, that's what I'm saying is that a lot of times, right, the media and all the headlines that we're listening to and all the conspiracy theories that are out there, uh, they're not, you can't prove it. You can't prove this out. You weren't there. You didn't see it, you didn't hear it. You can't, there's no actual documentation and stuff like that, you know?

[00:38:02] So Yeah, it's always gonna be vague. But then on, I mean, I'm not gonna say fortunate now, unfortunately, but then what happens is that you adopt these things, these feelings and stuff like that, and you wage war number one, it's a war against yourself. Mm-hmm. Because you have not, you have not established yourself.

[00:38:18] You don't know who you are. You don't have your own identity, and then you're gonna socialize with others. And guess what you're gonna bring that, that's gonna be your tool or that's gonna be your weapon in order to weaponize against the other individual, and you create war. 

[00:38:31] Toliy: Well, yeah, that, but also it, it, it protects you from people feeling a particular way about you that you don't want them to feel because you have an attachment to how they feel about you.

[00:38:44] Because you, there's something that you, I don't know, respect or like revere or like, like about them. Or like 

[00:38:50] Eldar: you're saying that the, the people are not gonna like, really see you for who you are because, 

[00:38:54] Toliy: well, for example, 

[00:38:55] Eldar: you 

[00:38:55] Toliy: cover, let, let, let just say that I don't know, you're at some like event and you like, for example, some, like a girl there.

[00:39:01] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:01] Toliy: Um, but you disagree with something that. That like, like, um, someone is like saying or feeling, and you might think, and you might think that like, okay, she also agrees with this kind of thing. Are you gonna say that and voice that? Because now she's gonna be like, oh, that's how Eldar feels like.

[00:39:16] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:17] Toliy: Now, like you kind of like, if, if you say that 

[00:39:20] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:39:20] Toliy: Now people can have an in, like an impression about you and if they disagree with you, are you willing to stand on that principle? On on, yeah. On that principle. Or are you not gonna say what, how you actually feel because you want others to look, you look like, like feel a particular way about you, 

[00:39:35] Eldar: picture you a certain type of 

[00:39:36] Toliy: way.

[00:39:36] Yes. Picture you a, a particular type of way. 

[00:39:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:39] Toliy: Um, so because you desire something, you want people to think about you in a particular way or see you in a way, you actually won't even voice how you feel to begin with. And 

[00:39:49] Eldar: now we have to go to back to Buddhism. 

[00:39:50] Toliy: Yeah. And then you'll, you'll try to 

[00:39:52] Eldar: because you have a desire.

[00:39:53] It's this the beginning of all your suffering. 

[00:39:56] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:39:56] Eldar: You have a horse in a race. 

[00:39:57] Toliy: You have a horse in the race. 

[00:39:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:00] Toliy: And if you're making decisions. Out of having a horse in a race and not actually what's true or, or or false, then what are you doing? Yeah. 

[00:40:11] Eldar: Yeah. What are you doing? That's a good question. What are you doing?

[00:40:16] Whose war are you waging? Hmm. Uh, an origin of an ego that is a, continues to inflict many individuals like a parasite in order to continue to live on through people. Is that what it is? 

[00:40:36] Toliy: Yeah. But e ego also, I think they, it, it, uh, protects a lot of those PE people. 

[00:40:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:41] Toliy: By making pain and suffering, not, not as bad.

[00:40:44] Eldar: Hmm. Explain that. 

[00:40:47] Toliy: Well, you would be in a lot of pain if you actually got to the truth of everything that, that you said that you were like, you felt, or that you were like right or wrong about Right. Like if you actually, 

[00:41:00] Eldar: but who's actually in pain? The ego. 

[00:41:02] Toliy: So the, the e No, the, the ego protects you from having pain of being wrong because you can't take it 

[00:41:09] Eldar: because it needs to continue to give you illusions in order to protect itself.

[00:41:14] Toliy: Well, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Like you're, 

[00:41:16] Eldar: so then what you're, you're saying is that, so what you're saying is that that individual is, let's just say 51% or more, is ego based, and therefore ego has to work in itself in order to protect itself and continue to, you know, provide yourself these lies in order to continue living.

[00:41:35] Mike: The ego wants to keep living, of course. Yeah. 

[00:41:37] Eldar: And it's host. 

[00:41:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:41:40] Eldar: But if you start peeling it away, start, you know, solely, you start killing that off and you go underneath that 50% or whatever. 

[00:41:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:46] Eldar: You know what I mean? You, you are more humble. You're looking for knowledge and ego is no longer the, uh, the ruler of your kingdom.

[00:41:52] Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:41:55] Eldar: So is that the problem? Is it the problem that the ego found its host, which is humans, and it just goes jumping from one place to another in order to continue to have this perpetual cycle of living within? 

[00:42:07] Mike: Yeah. Well, what's the ego? Is it ignorance? 

[00:42:11] Eldar: Yeah. An arrogance, obviously, you know, of course, ignorance and Yeah.

[00:42:14] You know, it's, 

[00:42:16] Mike: well, if you don't know something, 

[00:42:17] Eldar: the, the, the, let's just put it this way. Ego is the war, the, the war starts with yourself first. 

[00:42:23] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:23] Eldar: Right? Because you don't have an identity, you don't know who you actually are, so you take on some kind of other identity. 

[00:42:30] Toliy: Mm-hmm. And 

[00:42:30] Eldar: then you wage the war against others with your arrogance.

[00:42:34] Yeah. And your ignorance. So that's the ego. 

[00:42:37] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:38] Eldar: Okay. If there was no force upon yourself, which is that war upon yourself, there is no ego. If it is, you didn't also pass it on to others. You didn't influence others in a bad way. There is no war, there's no ego. So what do you have? Is that, that that's what it is.

[00:42:55] Mike: Yeah. You gotta have to explain. It's a little bit better. 'cause I'm trying to wrap my head around it. I see what you're saying, but 

[00:42:59] Eldar: all right. So ego is a parasite. That's how I'm looking at it right now. Okay. We're the host, let's just say it. The host is what, let's just say a soul, a nice, clean soul. 

[00:43:08] Mike: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:09] Eldar: Okay. Ego is this dirt, dirt, dirty mark that goes onto the soul and now it has to live on it. Mm-hmm. Okay. And the way it shows itself, or actually infects you, is by number one, it, it starts a war against you. Negative self-talk. 

[00:43:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:27] Eldar: Right? Uh, not knowing who you are, not having confidence. Ego 

[00:43:30] does, 

[00:43:30] Toliy: you're saying.

[00:43:30] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you know, you, let's just say you got it from someone else, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. You don't know yourself. You don't have an identity. So now you 

[00:43:38] Toliy: No. But why, why are you saying that e ego does negative self-talk? 

[00:43:42] Eldar: Well, it's part of it. It's just, just run with it. Because I'm just trying to describe war.

[00:43:47] I'm trying to describe that. Ego's, um, purpose is war. It's the wage war against ourselves. Okay. And then wage war against others. And the goal is to continue to do this in order to keep inflicting others and continue to live on. 

[00:44:00] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:44:04] Eldar: You see it, 

[00:44:04] Mike: I know what you're saying, but the question is, what's the origin of the ego?

[00:44:08] Eldar: Okay. Yes. That's a very good question. Yeah. It's, it's, it's like, uh, because ultimately what we're totally described right. And his grandma 

[00:44:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:44:17] Eldar: So that's nasty. 

[00:44:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:44:19] Eldar: That conversation or that like, that that thing is like, it's, this doesn't get us anywhere, right? Mm-hmm. It's a war. 

[00:44:25] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:44:25] Eldar: You know what I'm saying?

[00:44:29] She's infected and inflicted if she didn't have that take. Mm-hmm. Right. Should, would it be more positive? No. Oh, it's part of nature. It's part of the world. Yeah. Part of the design. Oh, grandma, you don't believe in God. Well, if you believe in God, for example, right. You could tell her like, God created this.

[00:44:42] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:43] Eldar: You think he wishes, wishes us bad. You know, like small little arguments like that, she'd be like, no, absolutely not. So then you should change your mind about the weather. 'cause weather's part of God. Yeah. Whether it's good or bad, you know, depends how it affected you, you know what I mean? Affect you.

[00:44:57] Mm-hmm. But ego and that arrogance and ignorance, wherever she picked this up, this bad sentiment or this bad attitude mm-hmm. It's constantly waging war against her. Right? Mm-hmm. Because now she's inflicted, she can't progress with her grandson, let's just say. And then she wages war against others. 

[00:45:14] Mike: Yeah.

[00:45:14] Eldar: Like she's her grandson as well. 

[00:45:17] Mike: Well, it's like that question, 

[00:45:19] Eldar: and it's just holding everything back, like you said, like, 

[00:45:21] Mike: yeah. 

[00:45:22] Eldar: You can't progress in the conversation, you can't have a genuine conversation, you can't get to know a person. Mm-hmm. And you can develop a better relationship. Yeah. A relationship more that's harmonious and love.

[00:45:31] Mm-hmm. Let's just say an understanding. 

[00:45:32] Toliy: Yeah. Like you, you can't really progress yourself. Like if, if you subscribe to like ego or like, again, like, like these like ignorant ways. Not only can you not progress yourself as a, like an individual, but you can't progress your relationship with others. 

[00:45:50] Eldar: That's what I'm saying.

[00:45:51] Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:51] Toliy: So like, you're like, you're gonna be in a bad place. The people who you interact with is gonna be in a bad place. 

[00:45:57] Eldar: Like everything is gonna be bad. This is what I'm saying. I'm explaining to you war, I'm describing your war against yourself and others. 

[00:46:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:46:03] Eldar: And that's ego's purpose. 

[00:46:05] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:46:05] Eldar: Is to continue that.

[00:46:06] Mike: Mm-hmm. But I think it's why, why I actually, I, I don't know. It makes sense. You know? I think it makes like, uh, I don't know, like the way I just envisioned it, it made kind of sense. I don't know if it's, if it's the way it is, but it's a paradoxical obviously, but 

[00:46:25] Eldar: yeah, 

[00:46:26] Mike: the closer, you know, like, what's that expression?

[00:46:29] It's always darkest before the dawn. 

[00:46:31] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:31] Mike: You heard that before? 

[00:46:32] Eldar: I've heard this before. Yeah. 

[00:46:33] Mike: You know, like kind of what it means, 

[00:46:35] Eldar: or no? Well, yeah. It's always, it's always stormy before the calm or 

[00:46:38] Mike: something. It's like always the darkest before it gets light. 

[00:46:39] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:46:40] Mike: So I think in, in human like development and.

[00:46:44] Overcoming like 

[00:46:45] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:46:45] Mike: The ego and the arrogance. Ignorance. 

[00:46:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:46:48] Mike: You have to go to the darkest place 

[00:46:49] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:46:50] Mike: To then finally see the light. 

[00:46:53] Eldar: Why do you have to do that? Like, why do you have to see the, the polar opposites before you see the, like why, why the opposites exist in the first place? 

[00:47:03] Mike: Why does it exist in the first place?

[00:47:05] Well, I don't know. I don't know the origin of the ego. I think it's maybe the way we're des like the question of the design of people. 

[00:47:10] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:11] Mike: Were we born with a clean slate or we born with a dirty slate? What's the start? How do we become corrupted? Right? Mm-hmm. Like the first human right? 

[00:47:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:18] Mike: Like if you like the God thing, right?

[00:47:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:21] Mike: They were living in heaven and they ate the apple and then the whole thing went sideways. But if you were living in heaven, why would you eat the apple? 

[00:47:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:27] Mike: If you're already, everythings great. Yeah. Right. So to me, I guess, I think maybe that we aren't actually, uh, clean slate. We start, we like we started.

[00:47:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:37] Mike: Whichever we started and we're trying to get out of it. 

[00:47:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:40] Mike: But for, for different people. Mm-hmm. For everybody, it's individual. Yeah. How dark does it have to get for them to finally see the light? It's like the same thing as rock bottom. And the, that's the paradox. The darkest place, the next step if you come out of it, is the lightest place.

[00:47:55] Eldar: Why are we the only ones inflicted by either ego? Why is, why are our dogs that don't have ego? 

[00:48:01] Mike: Mm. Why They don't have ego. They, they don't have ego. 

[00:48:05] Eldar: Well, think about Teddy. Yeah. Think about Archie doesn't think about Penny 

[00:48:08] Mike: doesn't. Yeah. 

[00:48:09] Eldar: Yeah. What ego? 

[00:48:10] Toliy: Because I feel like he Novi. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I, I, I viewed it as like 

[00:48:15] Eldar: what 

[00:48:15] Toliy: Ego.

[00:48:15] Ego is like, um, the punishment for not for, for, for not being like, um, consciously willing to find out the, the, uh, truth. 

[00:48:26] Eldar: I agree with that. Yeah. It is, it is definitely punishing. 

[00:48:29] Toliy: Mm-hmm. It's punishing. Yeah. 

[00:48:30] Eldar: But it almost feels like it's own entity, right, because the way it comes out, right. It's, it's like in a fight 

[00:48:34] Mike: war, we try to, we try to make it magical, but it's all very logical.

[00:48:39] Mm-hmm. It's all logical. If you go around saying things that you don't know is true, if you go around acting, behaving, saying, uh, what? Speaking? Yeah. But you 

[00:48:48] Eldar: already, you fast forwarded Mike, you're already describing the results. 

[00:48:52] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:48:52] Eldar: You're not describing the symptoms or you know, you are already like showing the effect of it.

[00:48:57] Mike: Well, 

[00:48:57] Toliy: how, how you got it to begin with. 

[00:48:59] Mike: Yeah. But how, I mean, how we got it from our parents. Our parents did it, right? Mm-hmm. To us. But who did it to them? 

[00:49:05] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:05] Mike: What's the origin? Yeah. 

[00:49:07] Eldar: And when does it stop? Right. Does it stop in the thinking in in the thinking 

[00:49:11] Toliy: rational? Well, yeah. It's, it, it stops when you're willing to find out to think the truth.

[00:49:15] Eldar: Yeah. The ego only exists. Why? Or like in that, 'cause we finally realized that ego hurts. 

[00:49:22] Toliy: No, 

[00:49:23] Eldar: it's 

[00:49:23] Toliy: painful. No, no, no. We finally like, why did you 

[00:49:26] Eldar: decide to like, go on the quest of philosophy? 

[00:49:29] Toliy: Well, because like once you find out what's actually right, um, 

[00:49:33] Eldar: the other stuff hurts next. Yes or no? 

[00:49:37] Toliy: The other side hurts.

[00:49:38] Yeah. 

[00:49:39] Eldar: Hurts too much. 

[00:49:39] Toliy: Well, yeah. It's just not like, uh, it doesn't feel right. That's 

[00:49:42] Eldar: Mike. Why did you start, uh, philosophy and why you continuing philosophy? You cannot not tell me any example that's different from his 

[00:49:50] Mike: Well, yeah. I was in a lot of pain and I wasn't happy. 

[00:49:52] Eldar: That's it. 

[00:49:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:49:53] Eldar: That's it. We all have the same thing, 

[00:49:55] Mike: but the thing is every, like you, you said earlier, more everybody, everybody is a different pain threshold.

[00:50:00] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:50:00] Mike: And that's, you know. Yes. Why? 

[00:50:04] Eldar: Yeah. You have to find the, the pain threshold. You have to go towards that as soon as possible. Yeah. In order to begin the learning process. 

[00:50:12] Toliy: Yeah. That's the thing is that the, the e ego, like, it, it, it acts as a protector. 

[00:50:18] Mike: No, the ego is, we're saying that I don't think the ego protects you from l uh, 

[00:50:22] Eldar: the ego is mad dumb, but 

[00:50:23] Mike: it's mad sl.

[00:50:24] It's mad dumb. It's no, it's mad dumb. And it's actually expediting you to get to the light the fastest way possible. The more egotistical you are, the faster you kill it off 

[00:50:33] Toliy: or kill yourself off, 

[00:50:34] Mike: or kill yourself off. Which, yeah, I think 

[00:50:37] Toliy: it takes, it takes the host. Yeah. I'm not If you're necessarily guaranteed to, to fight it faster.

[00:50:42] Mike: Well, if you suffer more and faster 

[00:50:45] Toliy: Yeah. That it's, 

[00:50:45] Mike: there's no guarantee you're gonna get there, but you're probably gonna get there faster if you don't yourself. Yeah. 

[00:50:49] Toliy: I feel like you, you have to be knowing that you're suffering and you have to be consciously 

[00:50:53] Mike: you. No, I don't think so. I think eventually if you're, if whatever the formula works out, you'll eventually have enough flu.

[00:51:02] You be, yo, what the fuck is going on? Why am I doing this? 

[00:51:05] Toliy: You had that experience. Yeah. I don't think that that's, that, that's like the, 

[00:51:08] Mike: but how would would somebody else come out of it without that? 

[00:51:11] Toliy: Well, they don't have to come out of it. They don't, Mike. It's true. 

[00:51:13] Mike: Totally is right. I agree. It's not everybody's gonna come out.

[00:51:16] Toliy: That's the same things get passed down 

[00:51:17] Mike: generation 

[00:51:18] Toliy: to Yeah, to generation. 

[00:51:19] Mike: Yeah. I agree. Generation, no, for the most part. Yeah, sure. I agree that that's not the case, but the, the sequence to come out of it, that's how it is. How is another way to come out of it? 

[00:51:28] Eldar: There is, yeah, there's the only, the same equation always applies.

[00:51:31] Mike: Maximum suffering, maximum expedition. No. Doesn't matter 

[00:51:34] Eldar: which lifetime. 

[00:51:34] Well, 

[00:51:35] Mike: yeah, it doesn't matter which, which lifetime. 

[00:51:36] Toliy: Yeah. But I don't think that you have to get maximum suffering. I think that 

[00:51:40] Mike: Yeah, but maximum is a relative to you, whatever your maximum is, it's not Yeah. A universal understood thing.

[00:51:45] Toliy: No, but I'm saying that like I, I, I think that you're still like a thinking individual that has the opportunity to like think without getting to a place of, of maximums suffering. For, for for sure to figure things out. 

[00:51:58] Mike: Mm. 

[00:51:59] Toliy: Like I don't think that you need to. 

[00:52:00] Eldar: No, I think, no, I think the switch, I think the switch between, uh, living an ego filled life where you are arrogantly going around spewing nonsense and being ignorant to then switching and finally making that leap towards wanting to pursue the truth, has to be that it's like a radical thing.

[00:52:20] It has to be a radical pain way. It has to be a way. Why would you ever yourself and like finally where like the choice is clear. Like, oh, okay. The only way to kill the ego is by actually Yeah. Using as much ego as possible. 

[00:52:33] Toliy: Yeah. But it'll only be Yeah. But like I, I agree with you somewhat with like the radical thing, but it'll only be as much as you can handle and as much as you can do at that time.

[00:52:42] Sure. Fine. Which, which evolves your, your ability to think about these things evolves over, over time. 

[00:52:48] Eldar: Yes. It's, 

[00:52:49] Toliy: it's a very, 

[00:52:49] Eldar: but the threshold is there for each individual. Obviously subjective. Yeah. 

[00:52:52] Mike: Yes. And these things that exist, these fillers, you know? Mm-hmm. They serve the purpose of delaying the 

[00:53:00] Eldar: delaying 

[00:53:01] Mike: inevitable.

[00:53:02] Talk about sports, talk about this. Yeah. Distract yourself as much as possible. 

[00:53:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:06] Mike: Unlimited content absorption. 

[00:53:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:09] Mike: This is all things that prevent you from getting to the point where you can finally face yourself and kill the ego. The only way to kill the ego is to face yourself and remove that, that ego.

[00:53:19] I don't know. Another way I can't, 

[00:53:20] Eldar: but the thing is that that, you know, the contradictory, funny part is that Buddhist belief that ego doesn't exist it 

[00:53:25] Mike: at 

[00:53:25] Eldar: all. 

[00:53:25] Mike: It doesn't exist an 

[00:53:26] Eldar: illusion. 

[00:53:27] Mike: Yeah, I agree. I think it's just the lack of knowledge. 

[00:53:29] Eldar: Yeah. It's like the way the ignorance, the way it comes out, or maybe the face of it 

[00:53:33] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:53:33] Eldar: Is very like known to us, right? Yeah. It's in anger, it's in like, you know, arrogance, pride, all the shit, you know, that's the face of it. 

[00:53:41] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:41] Eldar: But really at a core, like there's nothing there, you know? But it's like so big too. It's like it's paradoxically like that possible. 

[00:53:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:49] Eldar: Well I think because the, the more you're trying to grasp it, the more like it's non-existent.

[00:53:55] Like it's not really there. Yeah. 

[00:53:57] Toliy: Well, because you're trying to figure out something that makes no sense. 

[00:54:00] Eldar: Yeah. I think the best thing you could do is not try to fight your ego, ego 

[00:54:03] Mike: probably, and just be as. As egoistical as possible, 

[00:54:07] Eldar: but that's a crazy advice. And like, how is that possible? You know what I mean?

[00:54:09] Like, how can you actually do it? How can you actually 

[00:54:11] Mike: do that? Well, I think the seesaw in between whether you want to be a good guy or a bad guy, is giving energy to the ego. The ego's on cruise control. He's just like, yo, I'm just gonna hide back here. I just going for the ride. 

[00:54:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:22] Mike: You know, he's not, you don't even know he's on your back.

[00:54:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:24] Mike: You kind of just carry him. He's like, oh, I'm light. 

[00:54:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:27] Mike: You know? 

[00:54:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:28] Mike: But once you, you know, step on the gas, he's with you. Like you can't hide. He, he's, he's like, 

[00:54:34] Eldar: he's a persistent bugger. 

[00:54:35] Mike: Yeah. He's, he's, he's consistent co persistent. Yeah. But if he found a way to hide 

[00:54:40] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:54:41] Mike: Like in this kind of world, he just goes like, undetected, you know?

[00:54:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:49] Mike: That's how I think about it. 

[00:54:50] Eldar: So, again, my theory, I think that like, we're striving to become animals. 

[00:54:55] Mike: Hmm.

[00:54:58] Eldar: If it's the closest thing to living in, like, uh, to Nirvana, probably, 

[00:55:02] Mike: yeah. 

[00:55:03] Eldar: I don't know. That's what I think, you know, the unconditional love, the, like, persistence, you know what I mean? In there. Like, 

[00:55:10] Mike: but I think 

[00:55:10] Eldar: at least in dogs, let's just say that. Well, I'm not talking about like, maybe do you think totally like squirrels?

[00:55:15] Mike: Do you think it's like, um, do you think it's like a, maybe like a, I don't know, like a programming maybe? Or like, you're not gonna see a tree behave like a dog. That's right. Yeah. Or a flower behave like a cat like a tree. Acts like a tree. 

[00:55:34] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:55:34] Mike: And it doesn't have a choice in the matter. Is that enlightenment, is that natural design?

[00:55:41] I think it's part of the design. Okay. 

[00:55:43] Eldar: So it's, it's the closest to the design that's positive. So it's like, 

[00:55:46] Toliy: yeah. But do, do, do they have an opportunity for mental illness to be formed? 

[00:55:51] Eldar: Well, based on Mike, what, based on Mike we're saying is no, however. You bring in humans or you bring in anomalies where you can take chemi chemistry?

[00:55:59] Well, you can, you can take dogs. You can take 

[00:56:01] Mike: dogs and abuse dogs. You become 

[00:56:02] Eldar: Yes. Sick dogs. Yeah. 

[00:56:04] Toliy: No, 

[00:56:04] Eldar: you can abuse because you put the 

[00:56:05] Mike: people on it. 

[00:56:06] Eldar: Yeah. You can abuse trees, you can do, do all these things. Yes. Then 

[00:56:10] Toliy: it sounds like people, like human beings have some kind of capability, right? That like animals don't then.

[00:56:16] Right. 

[00:56:17] Eldar: They Oh, definitely 

[00:56:18] do. 

[00:56:18] Toliy: Because they have a capability. I think it's to 

[00:56:19] Eldar: choose. 

[00:56:20] Mike: Yeah. A dog is not gonna be nasty to another dog, just like, often nothing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Unless a human teaches that dog to be nasty, to be aggressive or whatever. 

[00:56:30] Toliy: Yeah. So you, so you think that every, every dog, for example, is born to like, like the, there there would be no dogs born to be vicious, for example, or 

[00:56:39] Eldar: No, no, no.

[00:56:40] I think the dogs are, are there by design and there's like, there's a design. 

[00:56:46] Toliy: But you know how like some dogs will like bite or be vicious or like that, that, but that's, that's because the human, human, or is that they, they would be vicious potentially regardless? 

[00:56:57] Eldar: No, that's a good question. I don't know.

[00:56:58] Depending on the breed, maybe breeds also like a thing. Yeah. What 

[00:57:02] Mike: about like the 

[00:57:02] Eldar: protecting breeds of hunting breed? 

[00:57:04] Mike: There's also, there's also the, uh, thing of the survival of the fittest, which exists in the animal kingdom too, right? 

[00:57:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:09] Mike: Lions kill each other all the time. 

[00:57:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:11] Mike: But I think the question is, is that because human humans disrupted the natural cycle of how the world operates, where there's abundance of everybody for everything.

[00:57:18] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:19] Mike: You know, we upset the whole ecosystem and now dogs or these wolves, right? They mm-hmm. They have to kill each other, or lion have to kill other animals, kill other predators. 

[00:57:30] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:30] Mike: Is that by design or is that because the human impact on over millions of years or wherever years we've been around.

[00:57:36] Toliy: But, but, but like, what, what would they like, how, how would they operate otherwise? 

[00:57:40] Mike: They would farm, they would eat, uh, things that grow naturally in the, in the, in the world. Like, uh, you know, not decar, but some, 

[00:57:47] Toliy: some, some, someone has to die still. Right? 

[00:57:49] Mike: I'm not sure. Yeah. I don't know the answer to that question.

[00:57:51] Toliy: Well, well, no. Like you, if you, if you kill a plant, for example mm-hmm. You kill that plant. 

[00:57:55] Mike: No. Plants don't die. I think they reincarnate, 

[00:57:59] Toliy: you know? 

[00:58:00] Eldar: Oh, but then we can also say that for ourselves. 

[00:58:02] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:58:02] Eldar: But you don't know what happens. Sure. But 

[00:58:03] Mike: no, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the answer to your question, but 

[00:58:07] Eldar: I do know one thing that if a lizard loses its tail, some lizards loses their tail.

[00:58:11] Yeah. It regrows. Yes. 

[00:58:12] Toliy: Now, now, one, one variable I see for example, for like dogs is that, um, may, maybe unlike a, a human, I feel like dogs, um, they internally feel like their needs are like met, right? 

[00:58:26] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:26] Toliy: Like they have kind of what they need. So we 

[00:58:30] Eldar: think 

[00:58:30] Toliy: Yeah. Or Oh, we think, 

[00:58:31] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:58:32] Toliy: Right. So I think that maybe they can act better if they're well taken care of.

[00:58:37] Right. They can be more, 

[00:58:38] Eldar: yeah. Yeah. They're more domesticated 

[00:58:40] Toliy: in that sense. Yeah. They're, they're like, they get everything. They don't, they don't have to go like, hunt for shit. 

[00:58:45] Eldar: Yeah. Like squirrels, they have to think and go collect nuts, but I think also it's by design that they 

[00:58:49] Toliy: have to go, go on. Yeah. Like dogs don't have mm-hmm.

[00:58:50] I, I, I, I think dogs could have, I guess anxiety and stuff like that. Right. But, um, like that's obviously like a learned behavior that maybe they get if something is happening or like, I don't know, times are being fed or maybe they get not fed or they get left, for example. Mm-hmm. And they feel ways about it long, whatever.

[00:59:12] Yeah, 

[00:59:12] Eldar: exactly. 

[00:59:12] Toliy: Then they could get things. But yeah, I think humans are, um, way more prone to mental illnesses. 

[00:59:20] Eldar: Oh, we definitely are more complex in that sense. 

[00:59:21] Toliy: Yeah. More, more complex. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:59:24] Eldar: But then again, like, you know, to say that it's also kind of maybe arrogant of me to say that like, oh look, maybe the dogs are squirrels and all these other natural things.

[00:59:32] If they're by closer to the design, what makes it that we're not close to the design? You know what I mean? That's close as possible because we're also created, right? 

[00:59:39] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Let's 

[00:59:40] Eldar: just say, so you know, to say like one is better than the other. I'm not sure yet. Mm-hmm. Actually, 

[00:59:46] Toliy: but 

[00:59:46] Eldar: it just feels like that sometimes.

[00:59:47] Yeah. 

[00:59:47] Toliy: That, and like Al also like dogs, they get kind of like. Oppressed in like a way Right. To like 

[00:59:53] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:59:53] Toliy: Do what their owners want them to do. Right. 

[00:59:55] Eldar: And the way they're kind of like in jail. 

[00:59:57] Toliy: Yeah. Like, they're also in like a jail. 

[00:59:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:59:59] Toliy: Because like they, they're like, you know, Felder wants to bring Archie to work, like he's gonna bring him 

[01:00:03] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:00:03] Or not, you 

[01:00:04] Toliy: know? 

[01:00:04] Eldar: Yeah. It's true. 

[01:00:05] Toliy: Like, 

[01:00:05] Eldar: when do I feed him? You know, it's, my, my, it's not when he says it, 

[01:00:08] Toliy: but 

[01:00:08] Eldar: it's like, even though he does dictate Yes. 

[01:00:10] Mike: But it's like a dog. A dog that's domesticated because of the human influence. 

[01:00:14] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:15] Mike: Yeah. What about animals that are in the wild without the human influence on them, if that still exists anywhere or not, 

[01:00:20] Eldar: you would then have to probably measure their satisfaction, satisfactory life.

[01:00:24] Or like, how, how happy are they, I guess, you know, to see whether or not a domestic dog, like Archie's better off than the wolf on, on the wild. In the wild. You know what I mean? 

[01:00:33] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:34] Eldar: And what, what, like, what measurements are you gonna get there? You know what I'm saying? 

[01:00:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:38] Eldar: Wolf in the pack where he is like, he's re like Archie didn't reproduce.

[01:00:41] Right. That kind of, we kind of took that away from him. 

[01:00:44] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:44] Eldar: But like, he has a like instinct to do it. Teddy has the same instinct. 

[01:00:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:48] Eldar: Dry hump, dry humping the air all the time. Mm-hmm. I mean, like, we as humans took that away. So 

[01:00:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:54] Eldar: To some degree I think they're like, that's, that's, that's not right.

[01:00:58] Versus a wolf who's gonna go and reproduce and create a pack Yeah. And all this other stuff. Like, is he living closer to the design than, than the domesticated dog? Probably the thing 

[01:01:06] Mike: is, 

[01:01:07] Eldar: probably 

[01:01:07] Mike: we don't, yeah. It's hard to, it's hard to know what the initial design looked like. You know, how many millions of years we're talking about 

[01:01:14] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:01:15] Mike: What the actual design was and how far everybody's gotten away from it, you know? And with the human influence. 

[01:01:21] Eldar: But then if the design also has, has baked in, in it, um, the, the potential of change, then that's part of it too. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like 

[01:01:29] Toliy: Yeah. There's the, the good part of the designs, you can't, you can't, there's potential for everything.

[01:01:33] There's potential for destruction. 

[01:01:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:01:35] Toliy: There's potential for ignorance. Yeah. There's potential for truth. 

[01:01:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:01:39] Toliy: There's a lot of like choices to be made. 

[01:01:41] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:01:42] Toliy: And I think maybe just the opportunity to understand what your choices lead to is probably the, like the greatest. Step that you can, uh, 

[01:01:51] Eldar: take. Yes.

[01:01:51] Yeah. And to, to, but to speculate again, to see or, or to judge what's good or bad. That's also a little bit arrogant and premature, I think. 

[01:02:00] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oftentimes you also don't know 

[01:02:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:02] Toliy: What that leads to. 

[01:02:03] Eldar: We 

[01:02:03] Toliy: don't. Okay, you got fired. All right. Is that bad? Is it really open? A new door fired and then you met somebody and you got a 10 times better job where you like, I don't know, learned way more.

[01:02:14] You 

[01:02:14] Eldar: found your passion 

[01:02:15] Toliy: instead of, 

[01:02:15] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:02:15] Toliy: So it was getting fired bad. 

[01:02:19] Eldar: So what conclusions can we make about the world or should we make any conclusions about the world? 

[01:02:24] Toliy: Well, no, because the more conclusions we, we make, the more ignorance is we develop. Most likely 

[01:02:30] Mike: We can't make any conclusions. 

[01:02:32] Eldar: Yeah. We can only ask questions.

[01:02:33] Again, he's talking about Socrates quote in a different way. 

[01:02:35] Yeah. 

[01:02:36] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:36] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:02:37] Eldar: There's no way around it, bro. He fucking knew. 

[01:02:38] Toliy: Yeah. The more you think you know something, the less you know. 

[01:02:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:42] Toliy: That's just like in general blank blanket that 

[01:02:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:45] Toliy: You know, because the more you think you know something Yeah.

[01:02:47] You stop actual learning. Learning is what happens. 

[01:02:50] Mike: Yes. 

[01:02:50] Toliy: When you think you know something. 

[01:02:51] Mike: Correct. 

[01:02:53] Toliy: You know, and too many PE people stop the process of learning too fast because they think they know something. 

[01:03:00] Mike: I is it they stop the process of thinking. Yes. 

[01:03:05] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:03:06] Mike: It's because they stop the 

[01:03:07] Toliy: process of thinking.

[01:03:07] Mike: Yeah. The think 

[01:03:08] Toliy: because they feel like they don't need to think anymore. 

[01:03:10] Mike: Well, yeah. We are like a program to recognize familiarity. 

[01:03:14] Toliy: Sure. 

[01:03:14] Mike: Right. That's one. And I think, uh, we see a situation, we think it's familiar and we don't necessarily use the brain power to see what's actually happening here. Yeah. 

[01:03:22] Eldar: We don't identify the variables that 

[01:03:24] Mike: at 

[01:03:24] Eldar: play.

[01:03:25] Mike: Yeah. We just, so we make our conclusions, we just 

[01:03:27] Eldar: code it, we code it, we be lazy or whatever 

[01:03:29] Mike: it is. 

[01:03:29] Eldar: Yeah. Being egotistical, prideful, whatever. And then we got a war on our hands again, so Yes. So we really can't make any conclusions about the world. Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:39] Mike: So can we make any conclusions about anything? 

[01:03:42] Eldar: It sounds like philosophies are never ending.

[01:03:43] Well, you can say that at the eternal Well, if you keep doing it, you know? 

[01:03:50] Toliy: Yeah. But I feel like there's first like a very painful el element of it that you, that you need to cross and un and like understand the purpose of it. Why do you bring that up? I feel like, because I feel like it's like a lot of people get turned, turned off in general with like truths and with like, figuring out how things lie because it's a, um, like it's an in infiltration as to what they know and what, what they've built, 

[01:04:15] Eldar: uh, what they need to let go of.

[01:04:17] Toliy: Yeah. And I think that that, like, 

[01:04:19] Eldar: again, talking about ego. 

[01:04:20] Toliy: Yeah. That, that ego is that kind of like, that like one, once they've already built that it's kind of that protector over that ignorant kingdom that they've like created. And it makes it so that because you have this e ego, you also now have the inability to learn.

[01:04:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:04:35] Toliy: You have like a blocker. 

[01:04:36] Eldar: A blocker, 

[01:04:37] Toliy: you know. Um, so you have to, is that a sickness chip away? It, well, 

[01:04:43] Eldar: ego, ego was sick. Right? 

[01:04:44] Toliy: Well, it's, it's a sickness. But I think that once you've gotten to that point, if you actually understood the whole truth, you would probably immediately kill yourself. 

[01:04:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:04:53] Toliy: In all scenarios.

[01:04:54] It, it would just be immediate death. 

[01:04:56] Mike: Hmm. 

[01:04:56] Toliy: Probably have a hard attack. 

[01:04:58] Mike: I wonder if it is, like, would you say it's a sickness or something? 

[01:05:00] Toliy: Because imagine like, it's like a, a mass download of all 

[01:05:04] Mike: of 

[01:05:04] Toliy: all the virus of all information Yeah. Of the show. Like, you're gonna be able to consume that in one day.

[01:05:08] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:05:08] Toliy: No, you need to consume that over time. 

[01:05:10] Mike: Correct. 

[01:05:10] Toliy: Because you can't handle it. 

[01:05:12] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, so I feel like don't, there, I don't think there is ego. I think it just lack of, uh, knowing because like with the ego, right? If we agree that the Socrates quoted of knowing knowingly does wrong, right? 

[01:05:26] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:26] Mike: If you don't know what you're doing mm-hmm.

[01:05:28] And you're acting out of ego. Or you're behaving egotistically, but you don't know what you're doing. Yeah. It's just a lack of knowledge, lack of information. 

[01:05:35] Toliy: Well, nonetheless, there's something that's doing that, 

[01:05:37] Mike: right? Yes. Well, 

[01:05:38] Toliy: no. That that's an 

[01:05:39] Mike: area of 

[01:05:40] Toliy: you. That's what it, that's like an outside view.

[01:05:41] That's what it, like the, the person who's doing thinks that they know. You can look at them from the outside and say that they don't know. 

[01:05:47] Mike: Yeah. But what they think is the first, is what actually is the truth. Correct. 

[01:05:51] Toliy: Yes. That's whats 

[01:05:52] Mike: saying 

[01:05:52] Toliy: think is they know. 

[01:05:53] Mike: They think that they know though. No, no. They think that they know, which is their truth.

[01:05:56] But the actual truth is that yes, 

[01:05:57] Toliy: they don't. Yeah, but that doesn't matter. Yeah. But that doesn't matter. 

[01:05:59] Mike: It doesn't matter. That is still the face of the ego. 

[01:06:01] Toliy: It, it doesn't matter for what's for, for what's, like in their world. They matter. In 

[01:06:04] Mike: their world, it doesn't matter. But in the actual reality of what's actually happening, 

[01:06:08] Toliy: no, I know, but they're in the, like each individual person is the one that's facing that kind of.

[01:06:13] Reality. Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:14] Mike: So like, yeah. But if you're having, if somebody's having a, being egoistical in a certain moment, right? 

[01:06:19] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:06:19] Mike: That's something they're experiencing, 

[01:06:20] Toliy: right? No, but you're saying that they're not actually knowing that like they're not actually, 

[01:06:24] Mike: yeah. 

[01:06:24] Toliy: They don't, they don't know, but yeah. But that's like your assessment as to like, you're, you're looking at them, but they actually know 

[01:06:31] Mike: Yeah.

[01:06:32] They're under their 

[01:06:32] Toliy: impression that they, in their world, they 

[01:06:34] Mike: under the impression they know that they're under the impression. They think that they know, 

[01:06:37] Toliy: which is why they're, they're the ones that are going to suffer the consequences of thinking that. 

[01:06:41] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

[01:06:42] Toliy: Otherwise, if that wasn't true, they would never suffer the consequences of thinking that they know.

[01:06:46] But 

[01:06:47] Mike: what's true, their perspective or, or, or my perspective? Well, 

[01:06:50] Toliy: well, well, it depends what's the overall, who's right? Overall. Yeah. Overall truth or just like 

[01:06:54] Mike: the actual truth. Are you sure that you, you have the objective truth? I don't. No. Obviously I don't. But I'm saying 

[01:07:00] Eldar: if you did, then it's you. Of course.

[01:07:02] Toliy: Yeah. In, in an objective 

[01:07:03] Mike: world, it doesn't matter. In the, in the real world, then that person, like that ego is, from my perspective, it just lack of the thinking or knowing. 

[01:07:11] Eldar: Sure. 

[01:07:13] Mike: No, but in your world, in my world, not their world, world, world, in your 

[01:07:16] Eldar: reflection of it, when they finally come out of that moment and they hurt themselves and they finally reflect, I think that becomes that as well.

[01:07:22] Like, oh, I didn't know any better. You know what I mean? Yeah. They come to that realization as well, but that's after. Yeah. 

[01:07:27] Toliy: Yeah. They, they still acted out of No, which is why they get in trouble to, to begin 

[01:07:32] Eldar: to begin with, with who's acting out of No, probably the ego and ignorance. 

[01:07:35] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:07:36] Eldar: You know, usually it's an arrogant fucking ploy.

[01:07:39] That's some stupid shit. 

[01:07:40] Toliy: Yeah. Like the, the, the aerial view could see that like, hey, like I can see that, like, you know, what they're doing objectively is like wrong, and you have evidence behind it, but I feel like they, they definitely know, which is why they're acting in that way to mm-hmm. To begin with.

[01:07:53] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:07:53] Toliy: And I feel like, like, yes. 

[01:07:56] Eldar: No, don't, don't say that. Like, you have to probably rephrase it. You can't say just that they know. They probably, they just back whatever it is that they're doing. Mm-hmm. And they think that it's Right. 

[01:08:04] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. They, they, they, they, they still have to think that they, they, they know.

[01:08:07] Eldar: They believe it. 

[01:08:08] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:08:09] Eldar: Yes. For the moment. 

[01:08:10] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:08:13] Eldar: Which is, which is again, which is again, that's the ego's face. 

[01:08:18] Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:18] Eldar: Which then is gonna be proven wrong because pain is gonna come, it's gonna say, oh, that caused me pain, bro. Like, what the fuck? And that's the humbling part. 

[01:08:26] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:08:27] Eldar: Right. 

[01:08:27] Toliy: The thing is also, like, you, like, the only thing that matters to you individually or to each of us individually, is our own individual like world.

[01:08:36] Mm-hmm. But if we want to, like, we will prove to ourselves that if we want to be happy, our truths have to align in a, in an objective way with the actual truth of what's going on. But in, in moment to moment, the only thing that that matters is what we feel.

[01:08:56] Mike: Yeah. For the individual. Absolutely. Yeah. 

[01:08:58] Toliy: For, for all of us. Mm-hmm. Like in individually. Yeah. The actual only thing that ev that matters period is how we feel or how we perceive things. Correct or not. It, it, it, like, it's still our world in individually all of us. 

[01:09:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:09:13] Toliy: Right? 

[01:09:13] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:14] Yeah. 

[01:09:14] Toliy: Um, 

[01:09:16] Eldar: whether we right or wrong, we're gonna find out.

[01:09:18] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:09:18] Eldar: Yeah. The juries are, those are two separate things though. Yeah. Yeah. So the egos alive and well, or what is it a fucking parasite or not? Is it like a virus, like a cold? 

[01:09:31] Toliy: Well, I feel like it, it can become like viral, but it only, it, it's only 

[01:09:36] Eldar: No, it always does though. Totally. No. 

[01:09:38] Toliy: Well, well, yeah, but it's only, um, it's, it, it's fed, it, it, it'll eat for as much as you, you want to, you, you, you are willing to feed it.

[01:09:46] You, it, it'll, it'll be alive for as long as you want to not find out the truth. So it's like saying that like, Hey, fine. You don't wanna find out what the actual truth, truth is. This is what you're gonna get in return. 

[01:10:00] Eldar: But that's not an actual conversation that's being had. 

[01:10:01] Toliy: Well, the, that, that's what's happening.

[01:10:03] Eldar: That's what's happening. 

[01:10:04] Toliy: Yes. Okay. The moment that you say, Hey. Like, like you say, a great place to be is an I don't know. 

[01:10:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:10] Toliy: For, for you, right? Yeah. If you actually don't know something 

[01:10:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:13] Toliy: Gives you opportunity to learn thanks. Collaborate with people. People Yeah. Maybe talk about something. 

[01:10:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:17] Toliy: Learn about something.

[01:10:18] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:10:19] Toliy: It's a great journey. But that's always 'cause you feel that way. But most people don't feel that way. And because of that, they get the, the punishment of of ego, they get the punishment of ignorance. 

[01:10:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:32] Toliy: And what's worse than that, you know, 

[01:10:35] Eldar: they get justice. 

[01:10:36] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like if you don't wanna find out what's actually true or not, your, your path will be very clear and like you'll um, you'll get exactly what, what that kind of path I guess like, uh, 

[01:10:48] Eldar: deserves.

[01:10:48] It's in store. Yeah. Deserves or has in it, 

[01:10:51] Toliy: you know. And then again, plenty of people will be like, yo, you're an idiot. You don't know. Like, you dunno what you're talking about. Which is perfectly fine in their world. They may feel that way. They may feel like you're a dumb ass. 

[01:11:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:03] Toliy: That's But the good thing.

[01:11:05] That only exists in their world. 

[01:11:08] Eldar: Huh? You like that design? What? You like that design? 

[01:11:11] Toliy: Yeah. Because like, you know, they could be wrong about like what you're doing or how mm-hmm. You're doing it. 

[01:11:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:16] Toliy: Which is perfectly fine. No problem. 

[01:11:18] Eldar: You respect that. 

[01:11:18] Toliy: You can disagree. 

[01:11:19] Eldar: You respect their opinion. That's 

[01:11:21] Toliy: great.

[01:11:22] Eldar: The freedom of opinion. 

[01:11:23] Toliy: Yeah. Ev, everyone's allowed to have what? Whatever opinion. 

[01:11:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:28] Toliy: They have. But it doesn't mean that they're right or wrong because they have that opinion. 

[01:11:33] Eldar: You know how we got here? What was the original question, Mike? I already forgot. We went far. All right. Totally 

[01:11:39] Toliy: passion and uh, 

[01:11:40] Eldar: no, 

[01:11:41] Toliy: no, 

[01:11:41] Eldar: no.

[01:11:41] It wasn't passion. No, it was my gripe about what? The fact that all these influences out there 

[01:11:46] Mike: Oh yeah. 

[01:11:47] Eldar: Is that we're constantly consuming. 

[01:11:49] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:49] Eldar: All these headlines, all these things, all these other people's theories upon us. Mm-hmm. Without actually finding out what's actually true, and it's very hard to do so.

[01:11:57] Mike: Mm-hmm. And 

[01:12:00] Eldar: we allow for what? For their opinions to then influence us, right? Mm-hmm. To infect us with their ego mm-hmm. Or their parasite. This is how we got here. 

[01:12:08] Toliy: Yeah. And, and, and you know what's funny? I I like re like, I, I have been suffering with this for, for a long time, you know? Um, but I, I've definitely felt the, uh, result of doing this to myself for firsthand when it comes to like my desire to like, you know, like progress, for example, like, um, processes or systems mm-hmm.

[01:12:35] Or stuff, for example, about like sales. 

[01:12:37] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:38] Toliy: You know, and like, 

[01:12:39] Eldar: oh yeah, 

[01:12:39] Toliy: you mentioned this. Yeah. What, what, what, what me is the, like, the content, like I'm, I'm trying to find content, I'm trying to find identity. I'm trying to like find out what's going on. Yes. So what am I doing? I'm going to, um, read and, and listen to what people who I feel like have done it have to say.

[01:12:59] Right. Or like. What they recommend to like, do. 

[01:13:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:03] Toliy: And then I go on the journey of like following them in like a sense. 

[01:13:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:08] Toliy: Um, with, without first, um, like knowing or understanding whether it's something that get one that like it works, works well for what I'm thinking about or like Yeah. Like it, I like I definitely went into that rabbit hole of like stripping away my own, like abilities, identity, experiences.

[01:13:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:30] Toliy: Right. And like, um, knowledge and stuff like that because, um, I, I, like, I was essentially attached to getting a particular outcome. So because I was attached to getting a particular outcome, I'm gonna put my thinking to the side. 

[01:13:48] Eldar: Hmm. And allow others to tell you what 

[01:13:50] Toliy: to do and allow others, because I want that outcome.

[01:13:52] Yeah. So in like a way, like yeah. Throughout that process I felt like I was, um, selling out in like a way. Because I wanted a result of, of something. 

[01:14:01] Eldar: There you go. 

[01:14:02] Toliy: That wasn't virtuous to begin with. 

[01:14:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:04] Toliy: You know, so because of that, yeah. Like I went on a particular path, but then like as I try to untangle myself and backtrack from that path, that's when I started to definitely, like, once that, that's when I start to

[01:14:21] be more careful first how I consume information and how I go about that. 

[01:14:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:27] Toliy: And whether that 

[01:14:28] Eldar: how you get influenced 

[01:14:29] Toliy: by it. Yeah. How I get influenced by it. Is this educating me or is this like, I'm able to like see it that like, hey, like this person is making a LinkedIn post, say, comment, playbook. Yeah.

[01:14:39] You know, at the, uh 

[01:14:40] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:14:40] Toliy: The way to get like, you know, 

[01:14:41] Eldar: like 

[01:14:42] Toliy: more leads, you know? Mm-hmm. Or like, um, 

[01:14:44] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:14:45] Toliy: And there's plenty of, of, I, like, I would say in those moments, like when you're typing in that, that, that like phrase like, you're a loser. 

[01:14:52] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:53] Toliy: And you're trying to not be a loser. 

[01:14:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:55] Toliy: It's, is like how you feel.

[01:14:57] By, but by doing that to begin with, like, you're a loser and you're gonna be a forever loser by keep commenting on that thing and keep doing that. Yeah, 

[01:15:05] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:15:06] Toliy: You know, so for me it was like the, um, the, uh, discovery. Uh, and instead of like, I, I, I think that there's nothing wrong with trying to find education and try to educate yourself properly, but it's also like you have to know how to be able to sort through information to begin with.

[01:15:22] Yeah. And how to even educate yourselves properly. Um, and as I started to, started to like untangle that, like, I couldn't believe like how far into it I got and like how I actually like came to all these, uh, conclusions about things 

[01:15:38] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:15:39] Toliy: And where I was going, you know? 

[01:15:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:41] Toliy: Um, yeah. And then like, yeah, like going back is like, yeah, it's, it, it's good because it feels like a, uh, like a re relief of pain and like stress, but it's also a bit painful, like untangling.

[01:15:56] Yourself because you're also getting like, impacted by like realizing like what, what you kind of like did to begin with. 

[01:16:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:04] Toliy: You know, but I still think that like, that, that that's still a better feeling. Like even though you have to face that to go into like a more positive direction and ultimately, like, to me it's like, um, because I have always been wanting like a particular outcome to happen.

[01:16:23] I never actually wanted to like, um, like I guess like have fun and like enjoy myself 

[01:16:29] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:16:30] Toliy: To like just unlock the infinite amount of like, 'cause like when you figure out how to like, have fun and like enjoy yourself, you have like an infinite opportunity to like, to do something and to figure it out and an infinite like curiosity 

[01:16:43] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[01:16:44] Toliy: Of, of it. But you can't have that while also having an attachment for a particular non-virtuous like out outcome. 

[01:16:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:52] Toliy: You know? 

[01:16:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:53] Toliy: And. Because I have this type of attachment that I like developed over time. Um, everything I did led to me not having fun doing it. 

[01:17:01] Eldar: Yeah. And you realized it. 

[01:17:03] Toliy: And I realized it, you know, and obviously now I'm working to, you know, to, to get myself out, out of it.

[01:17:09] Mm-hmm. You know, and, um, I definitely got to a point that like no matter who I spoke to or no matter, like, like I could talk to any expert about anything and then like, like sure, they can give me like, perspectives about things or like, like they can, like challenge me in particular ways, but like, it, it led me to, to, to, to feel like I have the tools internally to do what I need to do.

[01:17:36] Eldar: Hmm. 

[01:17:37] Toliy: And that I needed, I didn't need to go like, find external validation or like, uh, um,

[01:17:46] to be, to be told like what place to run or how to do things, you know, like in the process. 

[01:17:53] Eldar: I think you laid out a very good example and, uh, very good pathway to how, what to do, how to spot it, what not to do, and, and finally get out of it. That's a very good example. I think, you know, and I think that's what this whole topic was about.

[01:18:08] This is what I wanted to talk about, is this, this, this specific thing, is that if we don't start thinking for ourselves and really find out who we are and identify and who to ourselves, who we are, and who we want to be, we're gonna continue to be influenced, you know, by certain individuals that not necessarily have our best interests at heart.

[01:18:30] And that's what's been going on for a very long time. You know, so everybody's just gonna throw whatever fucking outlandish idea about the world is and try to convince us of this is how you should be doing, this is how you're supposed to be thinking. This is how you're supposed to look, this is how you're supposed to feel.

[01:18:47] And because we don't know where we stand, but we have attachments. We're like, yeah, we open our mouth. Like you just shouldn't Shit in my mouth. 

[01:18:55] Toliy: Yeah. Like when, when, when I was backtracking about everything, I'm like, um, like it started to, to, um, like I went as far back as to like thinking like, why did I like start enjoying doing this to begin with, you know?

[01:19:08] And I remember, um, a while ago, like re reading like the, like one, one of the main books that like in, in influenced me in how I like, like to go about things. 

[01:19:17] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:18] Toliy: Because it also like was spot on with the way that we do things philosophically. Like I read the Challenger Sale. 

[01:19:24] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:25] Toliy: Um, 

[01:19:25] Eldar: we're not promoting this book right now.

[01:19:27] No. 

[01:19:27] Toliy: No. But the, the book was written and it was like showing like different identities of like how you could go about sales, you know, being a relationship person. 

[01:19:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:35] Toliy: Being like the lone wolf that just like crushes everything 

[01:19:38] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:19:38] Toliy: To get what he wants. And like, he just kind of operates by himself.

[01:19:41] He's not like a team oriented person or like that. And then there was this persona of a, of a challenger. 

[01:19:46] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:46] Toliy: You know? 

[01:19:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:47] Toliy: And that obviously resonated well with me because like. Like, I felt like it, it was, it was, it, it was like, um, all the philosophy that we always talk about was about challenging how people think about things.

[01:19:58] Mm-hmm. And asking them, you know, questions and like that so inquisitive. Yeah. Like as I backtracked to that process, like I felt that, like how do I get, like, like that's why I liked it so much and that's why I continue to like, it is to be able to do that. So if my process doesn't involve me enjoying myself and challenging people in those kind of ways, 

[01:20:17] Eldar: that's not 

[01:20:17] Toliy: you.

[01:20:18] As I outline things, then I'm never gonna have fun. 

[01:20:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:20:20] Toliy: And if I'm not gonna have fun, then I'm always gonna find a way to sell out for something. What's the point? That's not fun. Yeah. 

[01:20:26] Eldar: And what's the point? 

[01:20:27] Toliy: Yeah. I'm always gonna lead back to that same path of like, um, wanting some kind of outcome. 

[01:20:33] Eldar: Mm-hmm.

[01:20:34] So for the people that are excited now that you got excited about your journey and want to continue to follow you on Patreon, the non-existent Patreon. 

[01:20:43] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:20:43] Eldar: What's your at sign? 

[01:20:47] Toliy: Yeah. You know? 

[01:20:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:20:48] Toliy: So, yeah. Yeah. To me it's like no matter what I did, I couldn't figure out a way to have fun with it. 

[01:20:54] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:20:54] Toliy: You know, to like actually enjoy it. 

[01:20:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:20:56] Toliy: You know, and I knew I, I couldn't enjoy it because like Yeah. I just didn't, like I wanted to do it, but part of me didn't want to do it. Yeah. And there was just a constant, like there's a constant battle 

[01:21:05] Eldar: conflict. Yeah. 

[01:21:06] Toliy: You know? Yeah. Um, and it was definitely like, a big part of it again, is like desiring something and then being influenced by the content out there.

[01:21:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:21:18] Toliy: That you don't know whether you fully agree with this person's premise to begin with or not, or like how they go about things. 

[01:21:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:21:26] Toliy: How they're willing to do things. 

[01:21:28] Eldar: Yeah. Those are important questions and I think that, you know, uh, maybe our next topic can be about finding out who you actually should be and who you actually are.

[01:21:38] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:39] Eldar: You know, number one, who you are. And then what should you do? Right. A lot of career choices and you know, going to school choices all wrapped around this question. You know, who do you want to be? Who are you? 

[01:21:51] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:52] Eldar: You know, and I think that's a very, very important one. 'cause a lot of times people will just jump into these things based on attachments and without proper examining and say, oh, I wanna be like this guy, you know, oh, that guy, that girl, whatever.

[01:22:05] And the next thing you know, you're like, you don't even know, but you're just grinding something and that that's not make you happy. You grind it for 20, 30 years and you're like, oh shit. Mm-hmm. What I've been doing. 

[01:22:17] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:22:18] Eldar: Complete career change. You know, you a fucking a business exec one day and then you became a fucking studying turtles or something.

[01:22:26] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:22:27] Eldar: In the zoo. Why so? Yeah. So those are those. That's very good. Totally. I think those are good final thoughts for you? I agree with everything he said. That was, that was great. That was a very good example. As to how we get influenced and why, how our ego takes over us 

[01:22:43] Toliy: mm-hmm. 

[01:22:43] Eldar: And holds us hostage, you know, that mental prison, you know, sometimes it even lands some people into a physical one.

[01:22:51] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:22:52] Eldar: Yeah. Mike, what are your final thoughts on that topic? 

[01:22:55] Toliy: Which, which, which I actually feel that, like the physical one might actually be, knowing that you're actually in prison is already like, being above, not knowing that you're actually in it. 

[01:23:05] Mike: Hmm. 

[01:23:05] Toliy: So I don't even think it's actually worse. 

[01:23:07] Mike: Wow.

[01:23:07] That's a good one too. That's a good take. Um, yeah, my, uh, my thoughts are, um, I'm gonna probably need your help on this, but yesterday when we were having our conversation about passion during the walk 

[01:23:22] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:23:23] Mike: I think we had like a little bit shift of as to how we started, how we started, and to how we ended.

[01:23:31] Mm-hmm. And, you know, I think, um. I said, I said to you, I was like, when I see the way he speaks about his craft mm-hmm. I see that he has passion about pa passion towards it. 

[01:23:41] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:23:41] Mike: Right. And then I think as we progressed into the, you know, more con conversation, we, uh, like, uh, discuss what is, what is it passion, right?

[01:23:50] And, um,

[01:23:55] I think, um, it's more of, I think what Toley ISS saying is not where you're going, but how you getting there. 

[01:24:05] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:06] Mike: And I think if you, uh, really pay attention to that of how you're doing things and why you're doing things, and I think that just a passion will be a, like a byproduct of it. 

[01:24:19] Toliy: And it's interesting that you say that because again, it's like you said that like you.

[01:24:26] Not, not focusing on where you're going, but how you're 

[01:24:29] Mike: getting there. 

[01:24:30] Toliy: Yeah. How you're getting there. What are we, what, what we were just talking about that people, um, they're not comfortable in, in, in, in being on a, on like, like not knowing something. So they first have to see, okay, I'm starting here. Mm-hmm.

[01:24:44] Eldar: And I'm 

[01:24:44] Toliy: gonna end up there. 

[01:24:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:46] Toliy: Now I'm gonna start going 

[01:24:48] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:24:48] Toliy: But Right. And the, like, the opposite of that would be like Yeah. To focus on like your path. 

[01:24:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:54] Toliy: And not have to actually know that like, here, you're starting from here, where you gonna end up and you're going there. 

[01:24:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:58] Toliy: Because that's also a crazy arrogant like take, like take 

[01:25:01] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:25:01] Toliy: You're gonna just map your like Yeah. 

[01:25:03] Eldar: Yeah. You connect the dot. 

[01:25:04] Toliy: Yeah. But you're just gonna go from there to there and then you're gonna just figure out like, 

[01:25:08] Eldar: yeah, 

[01:25:09] Toliy: yeah. You're not focusing on your journey, but you're yeahm mapping your destination. 

[01:25:13] Eldar: Like, who the fuck are you? 

[01:25:15] Toliy: How are you gonna map out a destination?

[01:25:17] Yeah. Used to know that. Who was 

[01:25:18] Mike: really good at that? 

[01:25:19] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:25:20] Mike: Yeah. You 

[01:25:21] Toliy: know? Yes ma'am. 

[01:25:22] Mike: Yeah. I think, um. I think we said that passion is just gonna be a side effect of doing things that way, you know? Yeah. Being concentrated, being focused, being committed, being curious. Like those are things that just gonna lead you 

[01:25:38] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:25:39] Mike: To where you're gonna go. But the going where you want to go is irrelevant. 

[01:25:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:25:43] Mike: You know, you're gonna get there if you do things the right way, but where you're going, it's doesn't mean anything. 

[01:25:49] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:49] Mike: You know, it's like such a funny, again, paradoxical thing. Yeah. Um, yeah. And I think that's, uh, that's actual character there.

[01:26:00] Mm-hmm. That's where character is. That's where like, uh mm-hmm. I think that's where it lives. That's where it, it's developed, and that's 

[01:26:11] Eldar: what you should strive for. 

[01:26:12] Mike: What you should strive for. Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:26:14] Eldar: All right. Thank you, Mike. Yeah, thank you guys. This was great as always.