201. Awareness

How much awareness do you really need to stop thinking and start doing—before life forces your hand?

In this eye-opening episode of the podcast, hosts Eldar, Toliy, and Mike tackle the eternal question: Why does awareness often fall short of sparking real action? Drawing from real-life stories—like helping a friend battle alcoholism through therapy and confronting anxiety attacks—they explore the split personalities we all have, the power of pain as a motivator, and why most people prioritize relieving suffering over building a better future. Whether you're stuck in personal development limbo or questioning your own self-improvement journey, this philosophy-driven chat reveals the hidden barriers between contemplation and real life change.

Key Takeaways:

• Pain drives action far more than positivity—learn why investing in relief often trumps proactive growth.
• Relationships matter: True breakthroughs require shared journeys, not one-off conversations.
• Ego and arrogance block progress; humility is the key to turning awareness into lasting habits.
• Therapy dynamics explained: Why viewing someone as a "teacher" can unlock vulnerability and healing.
• Society's superficial scales: Don't judge success by money or status—focus on character and morals for genuine motivation.

The most insightful moment? Toliy drops this bombshell: "People will invest significantly more time, money, and attention on relieving pain than building something good in their lives." It's a game-changer for anyone chasing self-improvement.

Ready to level up your own personal development? Subscribe now on Buzzsprout, rate us 5 stars on Apple Podcasts, and share this episode with a friend who's ready for real action—your review could get a shoutout next time!

But what if one pivotal conversation sparks a lifetime of regret... or redemption? Hit play to uncover the truth—and see if Julius ever takes that leap.

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form  - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Transcript

[00:00:00] Eldar: On this week's episode, 

[00:00:01] Toliy: people will invest significantly more time, money, and attention on relieving pain than building something good in their lives. Okay. That to me is unanimous. Always. 

[00:00:13] Eldar: Your interpretation of the world has been incorrect this whole time, and this is causing you lots of pain. Pain and therefore you've developed a problem that you've developed drinking.

[00:00:22] Well, that's just called ignorance. Yes. 

[00:00:25] Toliy: People who were heard in society. 

[00:00:26] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:00:27] Toliy: They were only heard because they were propped up by enough people. 

[00:00:30] Eldar: Yeah. But 

[00:00:30] Toliy: Jesus or Martha Luther King 

[00:00:32] Eldar: or 

[00:00:33] Toliy: Gandhi, or, 

[00:00:34] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:00:34] Toliy: But the fucks will listen to a buddy. You know,

[00:00:44] Eldar: tonight's our episode, it's gonna be on our favorite word awareness. 

[00:00:49] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:00:49] Eldar: But specifically I'd like to talk about how much of it is needed in order to bridge the gap between mean, theorizing and action. 

[00:00:59] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:00:59] Eldar: Right. Or contemplating thinking, analyzing and actually doing, because a lot of times we'll go, right, we'll raise awareness on different topics, um, and we'll outline certain things that like, oh, this is a good, you know, next step, but this is a good actionable thing to take.

[00:01:18] Yeah. Uh, but something still holds us away from actually taking those leaps, right. In order to change our lives for the better. Mm-hmm. Let's just say, start the diet, you know, uh, go to sleep early, quit drinking. Mm-hmm. Whatever it is. Right? And the reason why I came up with this question is because I told you that, um, you know, two episodes or three episodes ago when Judas was here and we talked about alcoholism 

[00:01:41] Mike: mm-hmm.

[00:01:41] Eldar: Right? And we're trying to help him with certain things and raise awareness about certain stuff. Right. Um, I thought we had a good conversation. Right. 

[00:01:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:01:49] Eldar: I think that we actually had a, a dialogue with someone who usually just kind of maybe drowns stuff out. We had a good dialogue. We, I think we got somewhere and we've identified that maybe therapy and some other things are actually a good, you know, uh, next steps that he can maybe take in order to finally, you know, decompress himself from all the different thoughts, different understandings and wrong perceptions about life that he has.

[00:02:11] You know, we agreed upon that. That was kind of like the consensus. It was a very good episode. 

[00:02:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:02:17] Eldar: Um. So as I was driving one day to work, I reached out to him. It just randomly popped into my head and I was like, lemme reach out to him, see if there's a continuation. You know what I mean? See how he's doing.

[00:02:27] Maybe he's actually in therapy or whatever, right? Mm-hmm. I didn't actually think that he was gonna be in therapy after that conversation. I think obviously it was still premature, but you know, maybe I was a little bit optimistic. I don't know, whatever it was. So I call him, you know, and he does the usual jewelry shit that he does.

[00:02:42] Mm-hmm. He buddies me, Hey buddy, how you doing buddy This, buddy this, that buddy. 

[00:02:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:46] Eldar: You know, and when I get to the conversation that, you know, where we left off regarding therapy, you know, he literally just brushes it off and kinda like, nah, nah, I'm not ready yet. Whatever. Not, you know? Mm-hmm. I didn't do anything yet.

[00:02:57] Whatever, whatever, whatever. So, you know, after we hung up, I clearly found out that like, oh, like this was just kinda like a useless call. 

[00:03:04] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:04] Eldar: To some degree, right? Yeah. Like why did I even call him kind of thing, you know? Yeah. And I started thinking to myself, and that's when I told you about it and I said, look, how much awareness do we have to actually raise.

[00:03:14] To a person for someone in order for them to actually take the next actionable steps. 

[00:03:19] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:20] Eldar: And to me, that's always been like the interesting part because uh, obviously as much patience as I do have and trying to raise awareness by having lots of conversations and being patient with people, sometimes I'm maybe overly optimistic, you know?

[00:03:34] Yeah. A lot of times. Totally. Is like, like, um, maybe brings me back, grounds me back to Earth and says like, ah, no, these people ain't ready. You know what I mean? Even though like I'm a little bit optimistic that they're gonna have some kind of change, they're gonna do something different, you know? Uh, but the truth is a lot of times, no, he's right.

[00:03:49] Totally is right. That like, yo, he, they gonna do shit. Mm-hmm. You know, they're not gonna take the next steps, whatever those steps may be. 

[00:03:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:56] Eldar: So I wanted to raise that question to say like, how much awareness and when does that actually, that switch actually happens between raising awareness and then that individual actually taking the step necessary in order to go into the right direction and finally change their life, change their perspective for the better.

[00:04:12] What do you guys think? 

[00:04:14] Mike: Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's, um, interesting. I, um, as you were, you know, explaining that 

[00:04:19] Eldar: we're rambling 

[00:04:21] Mike: uhhuh, it made me think about, and I think, I'm not sure, I just had a thought maybe it does tie into it. Um, like Julius is a stranger. 

[00:04:34] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:04:34] Mike: Right. 

[00:04:35] Eldar: Sure. Not, you know, like stranger, but like, simple to know that like WW like, you know, we don't 

[00:04:40] Mike: have like, 

[00:04:41] Eldar: um, a stranger.

[00:04:41] You don't know, you don't know what to expect from Julius. We know what to expect 

[00:04:44] Mike: in the sense that he doesn't really like, uh, know us. We're not like, kind of like we all together. 

[00:04:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:04:50] Mike: We are on like a journey together. 

[00:04:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:04:52] Mike: Right. Yeah. We have like intimate details of each other's lives. We share with each other constantly, right?

[00:04:57] Mm-hmm. And, um, we have like this thing that we're on, right? We're moving along kind of. 

[00:05:05] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:06] Mike: And we have a rapport. I. 

[00:05:09] Eldar: Yeah, we do. There's a storyline. 

[00:05:11] Mike: There's a storyline. 

[00:05:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:13] Mike: When you call Julius and ask him about something that he already is not pleasant with, he doesn't see you like, Hey, like, we're in the car together.

[00:05:20] We're trying to improve our lives. We're trying to be better. We're trying to do this. 

[00:05:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:24] Mike: We're strangers. 

[00:05:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:26] Mike: So it's that thing. I, I think I said it, uh, like, uh, we weren't, we're not with him. 

[00:05:33] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:33] Mike: Enough. 

[00:05:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:34] Mike: We're not in, in, uh, shooting with him in the gym, you know, like that expression. 

[00:05:38] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:39] Mike: It's like, uh, when you call somebody out, for example, but you don't have enough of a relationship to call them out because like, you weren't with them when they went through the rough times, but you kind of, like, I think Dennis would, you know, reference that a lot, but like, 

[00:05:52] Eldar: whoa, 

[00:05:53] Mike: that name, shout out to that guy.

[00:05:55] So I think that might be a factor where like. We don't have a story together about this thing that he is going through the life that he's navigating. 

[00:06:03] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:03] Mike: So it's more of like, it might be met with hostility 

[00:06:06] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:06:07] Mike: If you came to me. Right. And something that I'm struggling with. 

[00:06:10] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:10] Mike: Any, any topic.

[00:06:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:13] Mike: I think I would probably react in a way, and I would be truthful and honest. I wouldn't try to be like, oh yeah, I gotta go, bro. Like, you know, I can't talk right now, 

[00:06:21] Eldar: but you know what, I'm, I'm gonna have to give you a pushback. I know where you're going with this, with the, the fact that we're familiar with each other and all this other stuff.

[00:06:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:27] Eldar: But there's certain sensitive topics about even us. 

[00:06:30] Mike: Yeah. Of course. 

[00:06:31] Eldar: That I, I think that we would be met still with certain levels of ego, pride, fear, or whatever it is. Right. Yeah. Because like, I know certain topics about, like, there's certain, there's certain like unanswered, unfinished business. 

[00:06:43] Mike: Yeah.

[00:06:43] Eldar: About your personal development where like, I know if I bring that in, it's kind of a sore thing. 

[00:06:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:48] Eldar: And you might have excuses that you, you haven't updated me with them. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I know that like you're stalling on 

[00:06:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:54] Eldar: On certain actionable steps. 

[00:06:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:56] Eldar: You know what I'm saying?

[00:06:56] For 

[00:06:56] Mike: sure. 

[00:06:57] Eldar: So like. And I know we've done that topic for so long too. Yeah. So like we are in the same boat. Yes. Together, but we're not. 

[00:07:03] Mike: We're not, yeah. 

[00:07:04] Eldar: That the boat that you are in. Just like when we go climbing. 

[00:07:08] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:07:08] Eldar: You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Where you are in your own boat. 

[00:07:10] Mike: Yeah, 

[00:07:10] Eldar: sure. We climb together and we support each other, and we try to push each other, but I know that I'm still gonna get a certain level of pushback, even though you might be biting your tongue.

[00:07:18] Mm-hmm. Now you became better at maybe biting your tongue. 

[00:07:21] Mike: You know what I mean? No, but I don't feel like that in the rock climbing. 

[00:07:24] Eldar: Okay, fine. I'm just in the other 

[00:07:25] Mike: example, like we haven't had that talk really recently, but 

[00:07:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:29] Mike: And I agree what you're saying. I agree. You know what 

[00:07:31] Eldar: I'm saying? 

[00:07:31] Mike: I know what you, yeah.

[00:07:32] I'm not disagreeing, but I think there's a much bigger foundation there, regardless. 

[00:07:37] Eldar: It is, but still not enough in order to bridge the gap between awareness and action. 

[00:07:41] Mike: Well, well, the thing is, it's because you're also meeting the person, 

[00:07:44] Eldar: Uhhuh, 

[00:07:45] Mike: you're meeting again, we always meet different people. There's multiple per split personalities within all of us, so 

[00:07:50] Eldar: we are always, always strangers.

[00:07:51] Mike: We're always, and, and, and, and, because Julius is more or less like a complete stranger. 

[00:07:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:56] Mike: You're gonna meet a stranger. 

[00:07:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:57] Mike: You, you're not gonna meet a disarmed kind of person who's gonna be like, oh. Like this. Familiar. We've been through the trenches together. Yeah. 

[00:08:03] Toliy: No, but I don't even, like, I, I, I mean, I agree with El on like his like initial take about, like I, I I don't think it's that with like, um, like Julius for example, I think in that example it's like, it, like it's not about us not being there when, when like he was down or whatever, or mm-hmm.

[00:08:20] Like, you know, where, where, where wherever he is now. 

[00:08:22] Mike: Yeah. No, I'm not saying like he has a resentment or something towards us. 

[00:08:25] Toliy: No, no, no. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that like, okay. I, I didn't view that call as like, okay, this is a person who lacks receptiveness. I feel like, um, I'm, I'm, I'm probably more in the campus of, of that like, um, we felt one way during that conversation Uhhuh, and there was some like logical steps and feedback being going on.

[00:08:47] Yeah. But the other person didn't actually ever feel that same way. 

[00:08:50] Mike: Mm. He did feel that way in the 

[00:08:51] Toliy: moment. I don't think he did. I think he 

[00:08:53] Mike: did in the moment. He did feel that way. 

[00:08:54] Toliy: No, I, I, I don't think he did. I, I don't think like it, like the you, 

[00:09:00] Eldar: but would you say that same? Let's, let's, let's take, uh, go away from Julius.

[00:09:04] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:09:04] Eldar: Let's go towards you. 

[00:09:05] Toliy: Okay. 

[00:09:06] Eldar: Okay. Uh, you've suffered from anxiety. 

[00:09:09] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:09:09] Eldar: And you continue, maybe suffer from anxiety Right. To, to the degree that you know you're suffering. Yeah. Right. There was a lot of times in moments of your anxiety attacks, right? Mm-hmm. We had very specific conversations. 

[00:09:21] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:09:21] Eldar: Right?

[00:09:22] Where me and you would say that we were on the same page. We got to the bottom of it, we got to the same page and we're like agreed upon. 

[00:09:28] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:29] Eldar: But then the actionable steps did not match the previous conversation. It's the same thing. 

[00:09:34] Toliy: The actionable steps did not match the conversation. 

[00:09:38] Eldar: Where the next time it came around.

[00:09:40] Right? 

[00:09:41] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:09:41] Eldar: You again, made the same mistakes. You again went down the same rabbit hole. Well, that's, that's a split 

[00:09:45] Toliy: personality. 

[00:09:46] Eldar: That's that's what we're talking about. 

[00:09:48] Toliy: Yeah. But that's, yeah. But 

[00:09:49] Eldar: like, 

[00:09:49] Toliy: no, that, that can for sure ha uh, happen. 

[00:09:51] Eldar: What, what I'm saying is, what I'm trying to say is that what you said about Julius not having that moment, I think of clarity.

[00:09:56] I think that moment of clarity was had, you know what I mean? It was, yeah. Just like me, you had those moments of clarity where you're like, I got it, but then life happened again. 

[00:10:05] Toliy: Well, yeah. That then, and it kind of erase 

[00:10:07] Eldar: certain 

[00:10:07] Toliy: things. Yeah. Then what I'm saying is that like those moments are not short lived.

[00:10:11] They're short lived, and they're not as clear as they maybe appear to be in the moment. 

[00:10:15] Mike: Well, that's what I was saying. Yes. He's saying how, how many of those awareness moments Correct. What you're de what he's describing is in a moment of awareness. 

[00:10:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:22] Mike: In that conversation, two hours, three hours we had, Julius was present.

[00:10:25] He was aware. Nobody's seen Julius like that for the past, for past 15 years time. 

[00:10:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:29] Mike: Uh uh. Nobody here. I don't think anybody out there either. Yeah. 

[00:10:34] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:10:34] Mike: But because we were able to create the environment the way we did. Yeah. And he was able to actually focus and give, like Julius had an honest conversation.

[00:10:41] Toliy: Yeah. But I felt like his, his hand was more, um, forced. Yeah. I think his hand was more forced. 

[00:10:47] Mike: Sure. But nonetheless, it was, it was cohesive. 

[00:10:49] Toliy: Yeah. Like, for it not to end up that way, he would've just had to like, get up and leave Mid, mid. 

[00:10:54] Mike: But no, he's, but he's also not like a complete idiot or like a complete angry that 

[00:10:58] Toliy: No, 

[00:10:58] Mike: he thinks we're like coming from a bad place.

[00:11:00] It wasn't intervention. No. 

[00:11:01] Toliy: Yeah. But like he 

[00:11:01] Mike: intervention, he 

[00:11:02] Toliy: was boxed in a bit. 

[00:11:03] Mike: Oh, he wasn't forced to stay here though. 

[00:11:06] Toliy: Well, like he, 

[00:11:06] Mike: everybody wasn't, everybody has that sense of, like, they know. Again, it's that split personality when you're having anxiety, you, you don't know that, like, this is no good for you, but when you come out of it, like, oh, you can have a logical conversation and, and we like people tiptoe in and out of those modes.

[00:11:22] Toliy: No, I know. But for actual, like, I, I, I also know how much conversation and how much, um. Um, like how, how, how much work it actually takes to have act, actionable change 

[00:11:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:11:36] Toliy: Actually happen. 

[00:11:37] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:38] Toliy: And I also know that like, yeah, I've been on the receiving end of some great conversations. 

[00:11:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:42] Toliy: That did not follow with action 

[00:11:44] Eldar: at all.

[00:11:44] Toliy: You know, maybe I needed 20 more of those conversations. 

[00:11:47] Eldar: This is what I'm saying. Where is that? Where is that strike where it's finally the match is lit and you're like, oh, I got it. And you're burning and going with actual action. 

[00:11:56] Toliy: Well, I, I, I think it's like, um, a couple of things. I think in general, um, human society and I think how in general people are raised and how they're brought up and how they go about thinking just in, in general.

[00:12:11] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:12] Toliy: People will invest significantly more time, money, and attention on relieving pain than building something good in their lives. Okay. That to me is unanimous always. Um, when you, when it's time to take actionable steps to build something, to take that step forward that you're talking about. 

[00:12:32] Eldar: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:33] Toliy: Yeah. Um, they're much, much less likely to do that than to let a problem continue. And then once the problem is there in your face, 

[00:12:42] Eldar: you just pain relieving 

[00:12:42] Toliy: you, you, you will then take the actionable step to, to Yeah. Absolutely. You, you'll, you'll absolutely give your attention, your time and your money 

[00:12:52] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[00:12:53] Toliy: Right. To, to, to relieve pain when you're already in it. 

[00:12:57] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:57] Toliy: That, that to me is like unanimous, which is why people don't take actionable steps to build something and change something in their lives because there's a particular pressure that's put on when the pain hits 

[00:13:13] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:13:13] Toliy: To relieve it. But there, there, there is no pressure if things are like decent, for example.

[00:13:20] Yeah. Or like bearable. 

[00:13:22] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:23] Toliy: Right. To make change that takes more like, I feel like a character and like guts and like, um, it, it, it's almost like, like long-term investing kind of, right? Like that power play to make money today to tomorrow is like a hot commodity, right? Mm-hmm. Like who, who wouldn't want that?

[00:13:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:45] Toliy: Who wants to put away for 30 years for example, or for 20 years or two. Yeah. Not touch that money for, for 20 years, you know? No one wants to do that. Yeah. But usually you obviously get like rewarded more guarantees, right? 

[00:13:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:57] Toliy: When, when you do that. But yeah, in life, I think most people are not there to actually build, they're actually there to just relieve pain and then they need a lot of that pain to maybe then like.

[00:14:11] Eldar: Okay, fine. I, I agree with you. And obviously pain over time is gonna build certain level of character or raise certain level of awareness. I'm saying that through these types of conversations of, you know, philosophy, types of conversations or deeper conversations than just regular shooting, the shit cooler talk, uh, how much awareness is actually needed in order to finally take those steps.

[00:14:32] Let's just say like we have the luxury to, you know, have an individual who comes in and, you know, talks about their life. 

[00:14:41] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:14:41] Eldar: Right. Like, where is that trigger and how much of it is needed? Right. Where that individual actually believes that there is a possibility of a new identity that can be gotten.

[00:14:52] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:53] Eldar: Right? Uh, and that this is a safe space or safe environment, and this is what's being promoted and all these other things without needing to then be def def, you know, defense. 

[00:15:02] Toliy: Yeah. I, if there sounds like a. You can't 

[00:15:04] quantify 

[00:15:04] Toliy: that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure because, because I think it's different for, for everybody, but it, it still is like a sim, um, similar.

[00:15:12] Eldar: Okay. So then, so then how should my call have, have went then? Because that's what I was thinking about, right. Obviously I got off the call like, why did I fucking call this guy? 

[00:15:19] Toliy: Well, what, what did you ask? Like 

[00:15:21] Eldar: I said, Hey, did you start therapy? 

[00:15:23] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? I realize that saying like, Hey, instead of saying, did you start therapy?

[00:15:28] Just ask how things are going maybe. 

[00:15:31] Eldar: Yeah. You see, like, uh, I think that even that is a, is a short, uh, you're gonna fall short because what you're gonna get is, um, 

[00:15:39] Toliy: no. You're gonna get a confirmation that that shit's not that bad. 

[00:15:43] Eldar: Well, yeah, but you don't get, you don't get the continuation of the awareness.

[00:15:48] Right. So then 

[00:15:49] Toliy: Yeah, but you, you shouldn't because this person is not, he, he's not a persistent like, uh, seeker of knowledge. 

[00:15:57] Eldar: Sure. But I am right. 

[00:15:59] Toliy: Yeah. But you're, you're not, but 

[00:16:00] Eldar: you're not seeking knowledge from yourself. You're seeking knowledge with an external No, I'm gonna, the thing is I'm trying to seek knowledge, which is now, uh, or I'm seeking a very specific moment mm-hmm.

[00:16:11] On outcome out of a moment. 

[00:16:14] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:16:14] Eldar: But this moment requires two variables, right? 

[00:16:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:16:19] Eldar: One is me and one is the receptive party who I'm communicating with, right. However. I think I can position myself in such a way where out of that moment I can raise awareness, not just for myself, but for the other individual.

[00:16:31] Mm-hmm. And they'll have a choice. No choice in the matter. 

[00:16:33] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:16:33] Eldar: But to continue the story 

[00:16:35] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:16:35] Eldar: That we're talking about. Mm-hmm. That helps slowly get us there. 

[00:16:39] Mike: Well, I, 

[00:16:39] Eldar: and that conversation, I did not get any of that. I completely fucked up and I put that on myself. Yeah. Because Julius was Julius, you know what I'm saying?

[00:16:46] Of course. He was supposed to come off like that. 

[00:16:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:16:48] Eldar: You know what I mean? And I think a lot of people have this problem of communicating, right? Yeah. Where it's like, we wish so well for all our friends, our family members, and all this other shit, especially when we play the hero role to try to save everyone.

[00:17:00] You know what I mean? But a lot of times we're disappointed because people can't fucking follow through. My question is how do we position ourselves if we're in the position of helping? 

[00:17:09] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:09] Eldar: In order for them to play our game, 

[00:17:12] Mike: you have to find the, the right key that unlocks the lock based on where that person is.

[00:17:17] Eldar: And I gave, I gave it some thought. 

[00:17:19] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:17:19] Eldar: And the only way I can get there is to. Reference the conversation that we did have that night. 

[00:17:27] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:28] Eldar: And only go off of that. 

[00:17:29] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:17:30] Eldar: Certain key moments that were, were said. 

[00:17:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:17:33] Eldar: Where, for example, one important role that we, I mean, one important problem that we talked about is that his inability to, uh, perceive the world in a truthful manner is what causes them stress and pain.

[00:17:44] He's interpreting the world incorrectly. Right. This was one of the conclusions. 

[00:17:49] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:50] Eldar: Therefore, he needs therapy. Right. I went with you should, where's the therapy part? Right? Yeah. I didn't go with, Hey Jules, how were you, uh, interpreting the world yesterday or today? This week. Fucked up. You getting it all wrong again?

[00:18:03] Yeah. 

[00:18:03] Eldar: How will that land that question? 

[00:18:06] Toliy: No, no, no, no. 

[00:18:10] Eldar: Sure. 

[00:18:11] Toliy: Yeah. Like, I, I, I 

[00:18:12] Eldar: You sure about that? 

[00:18:13] Toliy: Yeah. Like, I, I view it as like the, like 

[00:18:16] Eldar: gonna, you think, you think that that person is, if I raise it that way, you don't think that person's gonna be like, oh. Shit. I gotta go back to that conversation we just talked about.

[00:18:25] Toliy: Absolutely not. 

[00:18:26] Eldar: I think, I think it's advanced. What I just did think about is you gotta use the YP food hook. What is that? 

[00:18:32] Toliy: Yeah. Like the, the, yeah, like the, the, the only way that I, I was viewing it as like, to, to, to do what you're saying yet, like the person needs to come around more, so you almost have to, but not reference that.

[00:18:42] Get them back in the 

[00:18:43] Mike: environment. I'm, yeah. But I'm not trying to do that. I don't 

[00:18:45] Eldar: wanna Yes. Explain what YP uh, hook is. 

[00:18:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:18:48] Eldar: For those who don't know the YP food is 

[00:18:51] Mike: Yeah. Like they think they're coming to eat food, but physical food, but they come and eat mental food, 

[00:18:56] Eldar: which is, YP used to be Youth 

[00:18:57] Mike: partnership.

[00:18:58] Youth partnership 

[00:18:58] Eldar: used, which we used to run me and Mike. Yes. And a lot of times where we've gotten the kids to come right. To volunteer and do things in the community is because we, we offer them free food. Free food, yes. Pizza and all this other shit. You know what I mean? That was the hook. 

[00:19:12] Mike: That was the hook.

[00:19:12] Yeah. 

[00:19:13] Eldar: I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna do that. Well, the hooks why, who gives a fuck? You know what I, for me, like, I don't have that attachment. Well then why are you calling to 

[00:19:22] Mike: begin with? You shouldn't 

[00:19:22] Eldar: call. That's a very good question. Yeah, that's a, that's a very good question. And I told you that. 

[00:19:25] Mike: Yeah, 

[00:19:25] Eldar: I told you that though.

[00:19:26] Like, look, I thought about it. I was like, why did I call him in the first place? 

[00:19:29] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:19:29] Eldar: Because I wasn't prepared at all. 

[00:19:30] Yeah. 

[00:19:30] Toliy: That person should have, like, if they actually took the actual steps, that person 

[00:19:34] Eldar: will be 

[00:19:34] Toliy: calling 

[00:19:34] Eldar: you 

[00:19:34] Toliy: and saying, 

[00:19:35] Eldar: Hey, 

[00:19:35] Toliy: elder, I actually did it. 

[00:19:37] Eldar: Yeah. No, no, no. For sure. I agree. But I I'm not gonna expect that from him.

[00:19:40] No. Like it was just a random thing or a random throws like, oh, like Drew just came into my mind and I'm like, oh, I wonder how he's doing. 

[00:19:45] Mike: Yeah. You know what 

[00:19:46] Eldar: I mean? But I didn't have no other plan 

[00:19:48] Mike: him. Was it like a, to call him driven by like desire, attachment, excitement, like was something going on? Like, bro, I really don't have, I don't really don't give a fuck, Mike, you know this.

[00:19:54] No. Then why you wondering? 

[00:19:55] Toliy: But 

[00:19:56] Eldar: I really don't, you know what I'm saying? If 

[00:19:57] Mike: I did, I know you don't, but like, you know, 

[00:19:59] Toliy: why did I call but him? Right. 

[00:20:00] Mike: Yeah. I 

[00:20:01] Toliy: was just wondering. Yeah. But that, that, that's a desire to know where things stand. You know what I'm saying? 

[00:20:07] Mike: Yeah. Maybe you felt that conversation was more, you felt that conversation was very meaningful, which I also thought was meaningful.

[00:20:13] Eldar: That's what I was saying. 

[00:20:14] Mike: But, but, but I also know that that's, that was meaningful for that moment, 

[00:20:18] Eldar: for that person who showed up that day. I need, maybe if I was calling for the confirmation, you know what I'm saying? 

[00:20:24] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:24] Eldar: Of that maybe. Yeah. 

[00:20:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:20:28] Eldar: Say what you're saying about like, Hey, you probably thought this was deeper than, than it was.

[00:20:32] Yeah. And therefore you might see the action. Right. And I confirmed that it wasn't the truth. It's 

[00:20:37] Mike: just, it's like the, I love the example of like, and I, everybody has this, like, you are hanging out at night, right? 

[00:20:43] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:44] Mike: You are watching tv, right? Or you are like binging a show. You stay up till two, three in the morning.

[00:20:48] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:49] Mike: Right? The night guy. 

[00:20:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:51] Mike: He's chilling bro. He is fucking having a blast. Mm. Eating fucking junk food, wherever, you know. Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:54] Eldar: Smoking, 

[00:20:55] Mike: drinking. And then the morning guy wakes up and he's like, yo, what the fuck did you do, bro? 

[00:21:00] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:00] Mike: Like, what are you doing to me? Yeah. You know? And that's like kind of what it is here.

[00:21:04] It's like the guy who was there is not the guy who showed up for duty when you called him that day. So, but he see the thing. 

[00:21:13] Eldar: I think the burden is not on him. It's on 

[00:21:15] Mike: me. It's not on him. Yes, I agree. 

[00:21:16] Eldar: If I'm making the call, the burden's on me to bring that 

[00:21:19] Mike: out. But you called him thinking that that guy, maybe you didn't calculate enough to know that who was gonna show up to work that day.

[00:21:24] Eldar: But I, I also don't get tricked by this, bro. You know what I'm saying? Like, so who was calling? Think I'm like, you think I under impression that he's gonna say, yeah bro, I actually been doing the therapy for a week. 

[00:21:34] Toliy: No. Then why? Why were you calling then? 

[00:21:36] Eldar: That's what I'm saying. 

[00:21:37] Toliy: No, but you have to answer that.

[00:21:39] Why were you calling? 

[00:21:39] Eldar: I don't even know. And he just came to my mind. 

[00:21:42] Toliy: Yeah, but 

[00:21:42] Eldar: that it was like a, it was like a remembering you just 

[00:21:44] Mike: like, was it in a moment you called it, you didn't really think it all the way through. No. 

[00:21:47] Toliy: Yeah. So then you didn't think through like what you were doing. 

[00:21:50] Eldar: That's what I'm saying.

[00:21:50] Yeah. 

[00:21:51] Toliy: Yeah. That, that then that, that, 

[00:21:52] Eldar: that's so then it's a normal, that is why I'm putting it on myself. Didn't prepare. Yeah, I didn't prepare. It was a senseless fucking call. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't get what I wanted from it. Yeah. But now that I'm thinking about it, like, yo, if I'm gonna make this fucking call, how do I structure my words in such a way where I'm gonna continue that awareness?

[00:22:07] Toliy: Mm-hmm. No, but see what you said there. Then, then, then you did have a call to get something because you said I didn't get what I wanted from the call. So then you made the call because he wanted No, after he 

[00:22:18] Eldar: made he saying after the fact he realized that? Yeah. 'cause my, my thing was what? My thing was about therapy.

[00:22:22] Right. Are you in therapy? 

[00:22:24] Toliy: No. Yeah. 

[00:22:24] Eldar: I needed a confirmation whether he's in it or not in it. This is what 

[00:22:27] Toliy: I needed. Yeah. So that means you wanted, um, no. 

[00:22:29] Eldar: Well, I 

[00:22:29] Toliy: explained to you yes. 

[00:22:30] Eldar: Didn't, 

[00:22:30] Toliy: no. You wanted what? You said that you didn't get what you wanted from the call? 

[00:22:34] Eldar: Well, yeah. Afterwards. 

[00:22:35] Toliy: What, what, what did you get that you didn't want?

[00:22:38] Eldar: We didn't have a conversation. 

[00:22:40] Toliy: Okay. So that means that you wanted to have a particular conversation. 

[00:22:43] Eldar: Correct, 

[00:22:45] Toliy: yes. That was your desire for the call then? 

[00:22:48] Eldar: Afterwards. I only realize this after I hung, after the phone. After. Yes. Yeah. 

[00:22:52] Toliy: Yeah. But it could have still, like, it sounds like it was still a subconscious desire that Oh yeah.

[00:22:56] You had 

[00:22:56] Eldar: 100% probably. Yeah, 100%. Like, I'm not fucking, you know me, I don't like to fucking stupid ass calls. Yeah. Yeah. If you have nothing to say, I don't, I've talk to you about this shit, like Yeah. I feel retarded. And that's how I felt. I felt retarded. 

[00:23:08] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:08] Eldar: I usually don't call for that. Yeah. I wasn't completely unprepared.

[00:23:11] Mike: Yeah. Like, that's why I 

[00:23:13] Eldar: put it 

[00:23:13] Mike: on 

[00:23:13] Eldar: me. 

[00:23:14] Mike: What's the reason you got, you came in to do an unprepared thing 

[00:23:17] Eldar: and this is not a big deal, bro. I didn't feel bad or anything like that. I'm just saying that's not, if I'm gonna continue to, uh, what's his name, have a meaningful discussion or any kind of conversation, I have to be prepared.

[00:23:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:23:28] Eldar: But I wasn't prepared at all. 

[00:23:30] Toliy: I agree. Yeah. To, to me it's like you either have to be, 

[00:23:32] Eldar: and that's why I don't make these calls in the first place because I know this. 

[00:23:35] Toliy: Yeah. Like you to, to, to me, Elise, you either have to like, there, there's two options here. I view you either have it to be mean. Right.

[00:23:44] Like you, I dunno, you can call and say like, Hey, still again it wrong every day. 

[00:23:47] Eldar: No, I'm okay with that. 

[00:23:48] Toliy: Like for ex, for example. Well, that's not mean to 

[00:23:50] Eldar: me. It's not mean. 

[00:23:50] Toliy: No, no, no, but I'm just saying that you either have to be mean in that kind of way. 

[00:23:54] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:54] Toliy: You know, uh, or you like continuously invite someone with the Yeah.

[00:24:01] With the YP, like, like, like the tricking, like the yp. No, I don't wanna do 

[00:24:04] Eldar: that. Come on. 

[00:24:05] Toliy: Yeah. So then if you don't wanna do that, no, 

[00:24:07] Mike: but it doesn't have to be the, I'm not saying that the hook has to be the YP hook. 

[00:24:11] Toliy: I'm not gonna say you have beer, here 

[00:24:12] Mike: come. No, no, but that's, no, I'm not saying that. Yeah, I'm saying you gotta do the, like, you gotta do the prestige on him.

[00:24:16] He thinks he's, he you, he's, yeah, but that's the wipey 

[00:24:19] Toliy: hook. 

[00:24:20] Eldar: No, no, but that's like deceive, dece deceitful Mike. I don't wanna be deceitful, I wanna be mean. I what? Totally said, if he think it's mean, I wanna call him and say, Hey, are you getting it wrong again? 

[00:24:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:24:28] Eldar: Right. Because if that's what his presenting problem was, and this is what he's trying to do is fix himself and he's trying to do that.

[00:24:33] But the 

[00:24:34] Mike: thing is 

[00:24:35] Toliy: you don't No, but I don't think he actually is. 

[00:24:36] Eldar: No. Yeah. But he's saying, he's saying it out loud, so I'm gonna go, I'm gonna take it for face value. 

[00:24:39] Mike: No, but you say you 

[00:24:40] Eldar: don't do, I don't care what his intention, you don't, he's not asking Wipey 

[00:24:42] Mike: Hook. But, but 

[00:24:44] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:24:44] Mike: Like, uh, what's the point?

[00:24:46] You're trying to find an effective way to communicate to the person to help them. Correct. 

[00:24:49] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:24:49] Mike: What if it's the YP food hook where you say, Hey, check this out. That's a 

[00:24:54] Eldar: long play. 

[00:24:55] Mike: Well, like, like, you know, you, you, you trick the person, like, Hey, check this out while you slip something in from the other hand.

[00:25:01] Yeah. The 

[00:25:01] Eldar: medicine into the 

[00:25:02] Mike: food. Yes, exactly. Yeah. 

[00:25:04] Eldar: You know, 

[00:25:06] Mike: I, I 

[00:25:06] Toliy: don't know. I, no, I, I think like. Yeah. I'm not sure if that's like, that's the best thing to, to act actually do. 'cause I do think that there's value from the person, um, showing character and wanting to take particular, like, I think that that process important for the, for, um, that person wanting to take steps and wanting to take.

[00:25:25] But of course 

[00:25:25] Eldar: the question is where is the person at and what can they handle as far as like, I want to cut through the noise that, through that conversation of asking the right question, I want to cut through his noise. 

[00:25:33] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:25:33] Eldar: By being mean, totally sense. Right? No, 

[00:25:35] Toliy: why? No. But he's, he's also not like appointing you to follow up with him on this, right?

[00:25:40] Eldar: Well, you could say that. Yeah. But like, 

[00:25:42] Toliy: yeah. 

[00:25:42] Eldar: Like, but that's the conversation at, at hand, you know what I mean? Like, he's the one who say, yo, I'm working this, I'm trying to do this, or whatever, you know? 

[00:25:48] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:25:48] Eldar: So, like, I mean, the least I can do is somehow have some decency to be able to like extend the hand if I, if I can.

[00:25:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:25:56] Eldar: You know what I mean? If the person keeps saying, no, no, no, no, I'm not gonna do it, bro. I'm not gonna 

[00:26:00] Toliy: call. I don't fuck. Yeah. Feel like if he was, if he was calling and asking for it is one thing. 

[00:26:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:04] Toliy: But I feel like yeah, like your, your first call could have been like, Hey, how's therapy going? Right away.

[00:26:09] Just, it, it's, that's what I said. Yeah. It's that what? 

[00:26:12] Eldar: Oh, that's what, to some degree 

[00:26:13] Toliy: I 

[00:26:13] Eldar: said 

[00:26:13] Toliy: that. No, no, no. That has it going different ways. Did 

[00:26:15] Eldar: you start there 

[00:26:16] Toliy: that, that way is the mean way? Mm-hmm. Where it's assuming that like, Hey, I'm assuming you did the right thing. Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:20] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:20] Toliy: So I'm just gonna follow up, see how it's going.

[00:26:22] Eldar: No, 

[00:26:23] Toliy: but saying that you started or not 

[00:26:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:25] Toliy: Is, is like, you know, it's, it's obviously, it's nicer, you know, 

[00:26:28] Eldar: for sure. 

[00:26:28] Toliy: But the other, the, the other way is, is, is, is is almost like boxing the person in and like Yeah. You, you obviously should have started already, right? Yeah. Like we, we, we had the conversation.

[00:26:37] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:37] Toliy: But yeah, I feel like if that person actually wants to change and wants to take steps, they. They, if, if, if somebody stumbled upon the, uh, truth in a particular place 

[00:26:48] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:26:48] Toliy: They would return there every single time. They'll, they'll, they'll, they'll want to come back. They'll, they'll wanna figure out, how do I get back there?

[00:26:55] You know, that, that's what I view. I think that like a high 

[00:26:58] Mike: level. Yeah. Like, yeah, 

[00:27:00] Toliy: no, but that, that, what, what are you just gonna get like a good life in the truth just from like, you know, another Yeah. 

[00:27:05] Mike: But apply that to, to yourself or anybody who's ever like, struggled with things many, many times. It came through these doors too.

[00:27:11] Yeah. 

[00:27:12] Toliy: Yeah. No, and then like I'm, I'm continuously put in a position where I need to do something. Like I need to be the one 

[00:27:16] Mike: that, is there things that you have still that's been going ongoing open for a long time that you haven't solved, even though Yeah, but that's, you stumbled upon the truth, right? 

[00:27:23] Toliy: Well, 

[00:27:23] Mike: what's, well, no, 

[00:27:24] Toliy: but it's 

[00:27:24] Mike: to what is 

[00:27:25] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:27:25] Yeah. But it's up to me to go take steps to, to do things. 

[00:27:29] Mike: Yeah, but what's actually, of course, so then have you stumbled upon the truth or you just breeze by it? 

[00:27:35] Toliy: Usually You breeze by it. Yeah. On certain things like breeze by 

[00:27:38] Mike: it. Of course. Yeah. So that's what I'm saying, like the person has not stumbled upon the truth and you're pointing him up to the scale.

[00:27:42] Yeah, 

[00:27:42] Eldar: yeah, yeah. 

[00:27:43] Mike: I was like, this person, bro, that was like a, oh, okay, next he was drinking beer. Like 

[00:27:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:27:48] Mike: At the end of the thing, bro. 

[00:27:49] Toliy: Yeah. But then you guys can't call her like, oh, the person was present. And that was an impactful conversation. 

[00:27:53] Mike: Yeah, of course you can. 

[00:27:54] Toliy: Well then, so then they stumbled in that moment, so then they stumbled at, at the truth.

[00:27:58] And if it was super impactful mm-hmm. In that moment, 

[00:28:01] Mike: yeah. 

[00:28:01] Toliy: They would've want, they, I mean, he was supposed to go climbing the next morning. He didn't? 

[00:28:05] Mike: Yeah. Well, he went home to shovel snow. He said 

[00:28:08] Toliy: the next morning. 

[00:28:08] Mike: Yeah. He left that night to go shovel snow. He said it was a crazy snow. 

[00:28:12] Toliy: No, I don't remember.

[00:28:12] Don't remember it. Snow be nice to him, man. 'cause you guys will know. No, it would, it, it didn't snow like that because you 

[00:28:17] Mike: guys, yeah. He said he went to go shovel snow for his mom. 

[00:28:20] Toliy: Oh, okay. Fine. My, yeah. My, my point is that like, if that conversation hit home like that. Like you would've figured out a way to like, yeah.

[00:28:28] He didn't even reach out since, you know? Right. Mm-hmm. Um, so to me that was just, it's like, 

[00:28:35] Mike: yeah, I think this is what you described me as regular stuff. 

[00:28:38] Toliy: I don't feel Yeah, I agree. It's, it's, it's regular stuff that, but 

[00:28:41] Mike: it's not, that's why it's not like 

[00:28:43] Toliy: person is 

[00:28:43] Mike: gonna, why 

[00:28:44] Toliy: don't, yeah. That's why I don't feel the same way about that conversation.

[00:28:47] That that was like a breakthrough. 

[00:28:49] Eldar: Yeah. Or 

[00:28:49] Toliy: like some, some, some, something like that. 

[00:28:52] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:52] Toliy: Because I think it takes many 

[00:28:54] Eldar: times of those, I mean, look. Okay, look, look, I can, I think we may be mistaking what we're talking about. Breakthrough. Okay. I think the, what was said is breakthrough type shit, whether or not it's received, used mm-hmm.

[00:29:06] Understood. Is different kind of shit. 

[00:29:09] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:29:09] Eldar: Right. 

[00:29:10] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:29:11] Eldar: I mean, the conclusions I think we've made is, it's obvious right? To the naked eye maybe. 

[00:29:15] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:16] Eldar: Or not naked eye, you know, some people get it, some people don't get it. 

[00:29:19] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:29:20] Eldar: You know? So the question is, right, if he did get it for the moment or for the little breeze or whatever, how do you keep extending that?

[00:29:27] And how do you keep building on that? And that's all ultimately my, my question is, yeah, yeah. Psychology would 

[00:29:31] Toliy: be which angle you, which, which like side are you asking though? From, from the side of the person that like, um, 

[00:29:37] Eldar: from my side only. 

[00:29:38] Toliy: From your side only, 

[00:29:39] Eldar: okay. For the person who's, let's just say maybe more aware of the moment 

[00:29:43] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:29:43] Eldar: The magnitude of it. And obviously I'm, the only reason why I'm bringing this up is because he's the one who's raising the hand at that moment and saying that I'm trying to fix myself or help myself with this. 

[00:29:53] Toliy: Yeah. I, I feel like you have to poke a couple of times there. 

[00:29:58] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:00] Toliy: And if you're not met with that kind of ity, that, that kind of interest and that kind of like desire for improvement.

[00:30:06] Eldar: So now my, the question to you is this 

[00:30:07] Toliy: buy. 

[00:30:08] Eldar: I agree. I agree. Here's my question to you. 

[00:30:11] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:30:13] Eldar: All right. Well, first I'll say, I say I'll, I'll say an arrogant statement. I know for a fact that you can pose a question in such a way where the person will return for more, but you need to find that key for that person, 

[00:30:28] Mike: you know, for 

[00:30:28] Eldar: a fact that you, but 

[00:30:29] Mike: that key again, 

[00:30:30] Eldar: is that if you can raise the question or make a statement or raise a question, right.

[00:30:34] Where you could finally find that little thing that trigger the person with time, whatever, you know, I don't know how much time, that's what I'm trying to figure this out. Yeah. 

[00:30:43] Toliy: And that's like a 

[00:30:43] Eldar: Right. They will find that thing back and try to return back to it. Not even necessarily even through here.

[00:30:50] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:30:51] Eldar: Through this maybe channel. Mm-hmm. Somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah. That, that, that, just like saying that if you, you, you're just saying eventually they're gonna, what I'm saying is that the soul is the soul and it operates out of universal truth. So if it's, I'm giving math, it's in the soul. 

[00:31:09] Toliy: But your soul has to know how to do math to begin with, feel like.

[00:31:12] Eldar: So I think that the soul actually knows how to do math. 

[00:31:15] Mike: That's why people behave the way they behave. 

[00:31:17] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like, and that's 

[00:31:18] Mike: why they're able to be in that moment. And we had a moment here when he came that time. 

[00:31:22] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like that, 

[00:31:23] Mike: that that was the 

[00:31:23] Toliy: soul was present. That person is more because he 

[00:31:26] Eldar: didn't 

[00:31:26] Toliy: do that much more likely to re relieve pain 

[00:31:31] Eldar: for the, for for many moments.

[00:31:32] Yes. To, and I agree with you for 

[00:31:33] Toliy: sure. No, in general, for their lifetime, they're much more likely to, like, I could definitely also play the odds of like, hey, there's gonna be, um, maybe, I don't know, let's just say like a fire big enough. Let's say like, Hey, you go to the doctor and doctor's like, Hey, you got liver failure.

[00:31:48] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:49] Toliy: For example. 

[00:31:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:50] Toliy: Right. 

[00:31:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:51] Toliy: 10 years on the line, 15 years, whatever. 

[00:31:54] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:54] Toliy: Maybe that kick starts a partic like that physical or 

[00:31:58] Eldar: maybe not. 

[00:31:59] Toliy: Yeah. Or, or maybe not. 

[00:32:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:32:01] Toliy: But I feel like. If that's a, for example, a big catalyst and that happens well now, like you have really, you have a hard deadline.

[00:32:10] You, you, you either go see Mr. G soon. 

[00:32:13] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:14] Toliy: Right. 

[00:32:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:32:14] Toliy: Or 

[00:32:15] Eldar: you take it on the chin. 

[00:32:16] Toliy: You take it on the chin, you've get that change. Yeah. And then you start thinking about those things, whether through this outlet, a different outlet that I agree with. But to me, like when it comes to like actual change, there's a particular level of humility and character, um, that, that happens.

[00:32:34] Some, some, some, some kind of like, uh, form formula that happens where the person needs to put themselves in a v vulnerable position. 

[00:32:44] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:46] Toliy: That will be painful and they need to do it. Persistently enough, and it's only painful 

[00:32:51] Eldar: because they're not accustomed to it. 

[00:32:53] Toliy: Yes. It's only painful because this is completely foreign territory of taking accountability.

[00:32:59] Mm-hmm. Admitting wrong, talking about like not hiding, talking about real realities. 

[00:33:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:33:05] Toliy: Yes. That, that's what takes the humility and the character that's required, but it, it's almost like, again, like we, we, we, we spoke with some on, on on many podcasts. Like for you to actually rid yourself of that kind of suffering or actually change, you need to put yourself in a position where like, if you're maybe wrong, the around the wrong people, like you could be broken completely.

[00:33:29] Eldar: I agree. I agree 

[00:33:31] Toliy: that, that that's how I view it. 

[00:33:33] Eldar: But, but, but what I'm, okay, fine. If you're saying that, then we, we have to acknowledge the fact that if you put in front of, if put this person in front of the right people, he can also be influenced for the better. 

[00:33:43] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:33:44] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:33:44] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:33:44] Eldar: So, okay, 

[00:33:45] Toliy: but you need to, but, but that person.

[00:33:47] Has to have that desire to be in those situations and, and to do that, it will come, it a, a lot of times the way Julius acts is to avoid pain. 

[00:33:58] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:58] Toliy: Just in general, the things he does or doesn't do, it's to avoid a particular pain mm-hmm. And have a particular outcome if he, on a recurring basis, puts himself in that line of fire to actually feel that pain.

[00:34:12] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:13] Toliy: And to do it with humility, with the curiosity to actually find out what's going on here. 

[00:34:18] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:18] Toliy: Who am I, what's like, what's happening here? Yeah. Why is this happening to do that? That to me is when like, the path is forever changed. 

[00:34:26] Mike: Yeah. But 

[00:34:28] Eldar: yeah, all I'm saying is that if we have the luxury mm-hmm.

[00:34:31] Right. To be in that subject's life and let's just say quote unquote, we're the good influence Right. On that side of the fence. Okay. My whole thing is that how do we structure our words and our approach in such a way where the awareness is raised 

[00:34:46] Toliy: mm-hmm. 

[00:34:47] Eldar: On a more consistent basis, so the person has something to hang onto.

[00:34:51] Toliy: I feel like, 

[00:34:51] Eldar: I think 

[00:34:52] Toliy: the 

[00:34:52] Eldar: person has to want this stuff. I think you underestimate how much power we actually have in our approach. 

[00:34:57] Toliy: Yeah. But I don't 

[00:34:57] Eldar: know. You keep putting it on them. 

[00:34:58] Toliy: No, no, no. I know that we have power, but I'm wondering, is it like, 

[00:35:04] Eldar: like look, he didn't come, we didn't invite him here.

[00:35:06] Totally. 

[00:35:07] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:35:07] Eldar: He came. Correct. Okay. Yes. So it's already like we have like he's raising in our shit. 

[00:35:13] Toliy: His hand. Yeah. Yes. So 

[00:35:14] Eldar: like now 

[00:35:15] Toliy: it's on us. Yes. But I also know that in that type of conversation, the way that it went, and I feel like there were moments where, um, he was put in a cage almost. To be like, well, like forced the, the, the hand was forced Yeah.

[00:35:28] To talk about particular things only 

[00:35:30] Eldar: because we're good at it. 

[00:35:30] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:35:31] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:35:31] Toliy: Yes. Um, that, that's what happened. Mm-hmm. And I know when that happens for most people. Mm-hmm. In most scenarios, they're going to run away from you as for as far as possible, which is why they're not gonna call you again, because what you did to them.

[00:35:49] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:50] Toliy: One, one once, that little moment, uh, that, that good moment for, for example, was gone. It was actually a really painful and bad one. That's, that actually was to me. 

[00:36:00] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:36:01] Toliy: For him, you say a really painful experience 

[00:36:02] Eldar: Yeah. For him. 

[00:36:03] Toliy: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like that, yes, there was some logical, like good things, but for the most part 

[00:36:08] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[00:36:09] Toliy: It was a bad moment. But that is also why the significant other 

[00:36:14] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:36:14] Toliy: In, in a couple of instances had to defend the person. 

[00:36:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:36:18] Toliy: During that happening. Yes. Why? Because they saw it too. 

[00:36:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:36:21] Toliy: That this person 

[00:36:22] Eldar: was being attacked, quote 

[00:36:22] Toliy: on was being. Right. 

[00:36:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:36:25] Toliy: They felt it too, 

[00:36:26] Eldar: because, but for his, to his defense, he actually told her, no, don't worry about it.

[00:36:31] And he confirmed what we, the guys, right? Yes. Yeah. He confirmed because 

[00:36:34] Toliy: he saw that she, you know, she was 

[00:36:35] Eldar: wrong. No, no, no, no, no. It's not. Why? No. I think at that moment, he saw what we were doing, doing, she was wrong and she Wrong, wrong. And he saw the intention and he said, no, no, no, I'm gonna, the thing is 

[00:36:43] Mike: she's interpreting things completely wrong from what 

[00:36:45] Toliy: we are percent.

[00:36:45] He is No, a hundred percent. I'm saying because 

[00:36:47] Eldar: she's an enabler. 

[00:36:48] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:36:49] Eldar: In that moment. 

[00:36:49] Toliy: Yes. Yes. But my, my, my main point is that that experience, to me, at least for that person, was a lot more painful than it was productive so far. 

[00:37:00] Mike: No, I have, I 

[00:37:00] Toliy: agree with that. So, so, so 

[00:37:01] Mike: I agree with that. 

[00:37:02] Toliy: So my, my, my, my main thing 

[00:37:04] Mike: is that, but every experience going forward is gonna be like this.

[00:37:06] Yes. And the only way to get out of this is to go into those painful experiences. You said you 

[00:37:11] Toliy: need to be mean. Yeah. Yes. But that person has to mm-hmm. That. Like, I feel like for you to get that good change and for you to actually, like, impossible, 

[00:37:20] Mike: what you're about to say is not possible. 

[00:37:22] Toliy: No, no, no. I'm saying that like, it, it it 

[00:37:26] Mike: to be 

[00:37:26] Toliy: humble again.

[00:37:27] I think it requires you to It requires you, 

[00:37:30] Mike: yeah. 

[00:37:30] Toliy: To be willing to, to take a particular step. 

[00:37:33] Mike: Yeah. It's like, it's like you saying, and if you 

[00:37:35] Toliy: don't 

[00:37:35] Mike: wanna take 

[00:37:35] it, 

[00:37:36] Toliy: then you're not gonna get 

[00:37:37] Mike: it, do it. 

[00:37:37] Toliy: No, no. 

[00:37:38] Mike: I'm saying do it. But if a person knew what the right thing to do was, would 

[00:37:40] Toliy: No, I'm not even saying 

[00:37:41] Mike: it.

[00:37:41] Do do the problem if a person doesn't 

[00:37:43] Toliy: know. No, no, no, no. I'm not even saying that's why 

[00:37:44] Mike: it's on nas. 

[00:37:45] Toliy: No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm the chicken outta the egg. We're the chicken. No, but I'm not even saying to take, like, for that person to take like actual. Real steps and like actually change. Yeah. I'm saying that the person need needs to admit to themselves that like they, they need like, no, I think they need to seek help.

[00:38:02] Mike: No, but the the thing is what you're asking for, they're huge asks. Maybe you're not seeing, thinking 

[00:38:07] Toliy: about it. No, but I'm also completely fine with them not happening. That's what I'm saying. 

[00:38:10] Mike: Well, yeah, sure. I mean, if you 

[00:38:11] Toliy: were, if you want huge results, you need to have huge steps. Like you, you have, you 

[00:38:15] Mike: have to, no, you can have huge steps, 

[00:38:17] Toliy: but Yeah.

[00:38:17] But I feel like that's 

[00:38:18] Mike: what's, nobody ever went from A to B, which is like enlightened. You have to go through a lot of ignorance. 

[00:38:25] Toliy: No, but that's not that, that's not what I'm saying. 

[00:38:27] Mike: No, but that's what you're saying. You're saying No, 

[00:38:28] Toliy: that's not what I'm saying. 

[00:38:29] Mike: The person has to know what's good for them 

[00:38:31] Toliy: and do it.

[00:38:31] I'm not saying that one step for them is to, to know, but you like, um, like, I mean, I mean like in my own example, like if, um, plenty of times Elder will throw out feel feelers where he'll try to see where I'm at. 

[00:38:47] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:38:47] Toliy: And plenty of times, right. It's, it's, it's an opportunity right. That, that you threw out, right?

[00:38:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:53] Toliy: And, um, I didn't like cash in on it. Like I didn't like, uh, like he's like, in that moment I, like, I failed that. I wasn't willing to, like, I didn't have that curiosity. Yeah. To see what he's saying. 

[00:39:05] Mike: Uhhuh, 

[00:39:05] Toliy: I didn't have humility to find out. Did 

[00:39:07] Mike: you have a choice when you made that choice or no? 

[00:39:09] Toliy: Well, 

[00:39:09] Mike: did you know what was happening?

[00:39:11] Toliy: W well, um, no. 

[00:39:13] Mike: Ah, 

[00:39:14] Toliy: no. But, but there, there is still an opportunity, but there's other times 

[00:39:17] Mike: No, no. Where I'm like, no opportu does opportunity exist if you doesn't know? You don't know it exists. 

[00:39:22] Toliy: Well, of course not. 

[00:39:24] Mike: Does 

[00:39:24] Toliy: the tree make the 

[00:39:25] Mike: sound when nobody's did a 

[00:39:26] Toliy: witness? I'm saying that the, um, I, I, I'm saying that the reality of the situation, Uhhuh was that, um, elder was giving me an opportunity to, to, to be better or to do better, to like know better Uhhuh.

[00:39:39] And sometimes I cashed it on them. Yeah. And I was like. Yeah, I do wanna find out like, why is he saying what he's saying? Mm-hmm. And I went and I was curious about it. Yeah. And I benefited like immensely. And that to me was like a deserving thing of like, yeah, I was willing to take accountability. I was willing to be wrong, I was willing to, I, I was curious uhhuh, so therefore I deserve good things.

[00:40:03] Mike: Okay. 

[00:40:04] Toliy: But to me, like, if you're not willing to do those things, 

[00:40:07] Mike: so explain to me the opposite times that you didn't take advantage of that. What do you deserve then? 

[00:40:11] Toliy: I deserve to, to to eat shit. Okay. I was arrogant. Mm-hmm. I told El basically like metaphorically to fuck off. 

[00:40:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:40:17] Toliy: You know? Yeah. And he, he got it and he was like, all right.

[00:40:20] You know, 

[00:40:20] Mike: but when you 

[00:40:21] Toliy: were doing, when you don't want it, you don't want it. Okay. 

[00:40:22] Mike: But when you were doing that, did you know what you were signing up for to say elder to fuck off? 

[00:40:25] Toliy: Absolutely not. 

[00:40:27] Mike: So then how did you get to the point's? I agree. It's okay. 

[00:40:29] Toliy: Yeah. Because, 

[00:40:30] Mike: but getting to that point of knowing the distinction and being able to have a choice in the matter.

[00:40:34] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:40:34] Mike: It's very far. 

[00:40:36] Toliy: No, sure. 

[00:40:36] Mike: But it requires, you're trying to, you're trying to like, uh, stuff a hotdog down the hallway. I'm trying to stuff a breadcrumb down the hallway, a breadcrumb that you can't barely see. That's what the person needs to be fed because of how far the distance is. It's like you have 24 hours in a day.

[00:40:53] Okay. Yeah. You see us for one minute a day or 30 seconds. You have 23 hours and 59 minutes of all the, you created for yourself. A bad life, like a, a life of suffering. Let's just be extreme here right after the minute is up with us. He goes back there, you think he's gonna be like, yo, that minute was really great.

[00:41:16] He's like, no, I got problems to solve. I got this stress coming in, in this brain. No, understand that, that this stress hereand, this stress that 

[00:41:22] Toliy: understand. No, no. But I understand that. Like, I'm not saying that like, 

[00:41:24] Mike: yeah, no, but it's, 

[00:41:25] Toliy: that's not what it is. I'm 

[00:41:25] Mike: just 

[00:41:26] Toliy: saying like you, I'm, I'm fine with him not being curious or wanting to do this.

[00:41:30] Yeah. Or receptive. Like I don't need to create this. Like 

[00:41:33] Mike: No, I know that you're fine, but I trying, I'm trying explain to you that, that that's actually, like, that's how it works. The person cannot take more than they can take. 

[00:41:42] Toliy: No. What, what's like, to me, what's gonna actually work? Uhhuh is the continuous suffering that that person's going to have.

[00:41:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:41:49] Toliy: Until they're fed up 

[00:41:51] Mike: Uhhuh. 

[00:41:52] Toliy: Um, and until they, um, realize that they have been being cha challenged and there may have been some opportunities and there may have been some questions asked Uhhuh and that they weren't willing to play play like ball. 

[00:42:04] Mike: Yeah. But that is already an advance thinking.

[00:42:06] That's like there's levels to it. Like you 

[00:42:09] Toliy: can't. No. But the suffering, the, to, to me, the, the, um, suffering is uhhuh. What's the slow thinking that will, that 

[00:42:16] Mike: that teaches you being able to, knowing how to suffer is also an ability. It's not just you just don't just learn. Like you don't just born with it. 

[00:42:24] Toliy: No, but that's just like a forced thing that will happen 

[00:42:26] Mike: if it's unconscious.

[00:42:27] Is it useful? 

[00:42:30] Toliy: Well, 

[00:42:30] Mike: do we know? 

[00:42:32] Toliy: Well, I mean it like the, like the, the a suffering will continue to ha to happen. 

[00:42:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:42:38] Toliy: And you're definitely gonna like, 

[00:42:39] Eldar: but you're not guaranteed that that slow suffering will lead to learning. You just die. 

[00:42:43] Toliy: Yeah, but I don't, but I also don't care if it does or, or not. 

[00:42:47] Eldar: Well, well, I think that I'm saying, I think the whole point here is that we're trying to figure out how, like if we are in the equation, right, not when the person's there by themselves suffering on their own, slowly, slowly, slowly thinking and learning.

[00:42:59] I'm talking about. If we have the opportunity to raise awareness right. In those moments, how should that be? How does that look like? Yeah. But 

[00:43:07] Toliy: should you raise awareness if you're not, um, being summoned to do so? I feel 

[00:43:13] Eldar: like, well, you know my answer to that, you know the answer to that. 

[00:43:15] Toliy: Yeah. No, that, that's what I'm saying.

[00:43:17] But, um, to me, I, I, I feel like there has to be a, a, a, uh, like a plunge the person takes 

[00:43:26] Eldar: Julius. Like they have to risk 

[00:43:27] Toliy: it for the biscuit. 

[00:43:28] Eldar: Julius Julius actually gave me the thing. He said, yo, I need help with this. 

[00:43:34] Toliy: Okay. 

[00:43:35] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? So this is the only reason why this is happening in the first place.

[00:43:40] You know what I'm saying? 

[00:43:40] Toliy: Like, he actually told that to you? 

[00:43:42] Eldar: He actually told that to me. 

[00:43:43] Toliy: Okay. 

[00:43:43] Eldar: You know what I mean? I need help. He said that 

[00:43:47] Toliy: right, right. Before he came on that 

[00:43:48] Eldar: before the podcast 

[00:43:50] Toliy: A while ago, you're 

[00:43:50] Eldar: saying? Yeah, a while ago. Before even. So when he does come around, that's my opportunity to be able to be there as helpful as possible.

[00:43:58] Yeah. For him. 

[00:43:59] Toliy: Yeah. But it's also a thing where like there's plenty of people that ask for help for things, right? Yeah. I mean, sure. And then they realize that, or like you realize that like they're not, they're not ready. Like totally get it. 

[00:44:10] Mike: So then should you just like give up? Should we just give 

[00:44:13] Toliy: on 

[00:44:13] Mike: each other?

[00:44:14] Toliy: Feel like, no, I feel like there should be and 

[00:44:15] Mike: be like, oh, if you're not like following up right away, it's dead. 

[00:44:18] Toliy: No, I feel like they're like, there, there's plenty of opportunities to like challenge people and to 

[00:44:24] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:44:25] Toliy: Poke at it, to, to, to see where they're at on this uhhuh. Right. Are they like arrogantly angry about it?

[00:44:31] Are they just arrogantly thinking that like, Hey, they actually got it. 

[00:44:34] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:34] Toliy: Are they just downplaying it uhhuh and not willing to admit that this actually is a really big, big problem? I think that you could do that to see where they're at. Mm-hmm. And then from there it influences everything, right?

[00:44:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:44:47] Toliy: But. Yeah. Like that. That's how I see it. Like I'm, I'm, I'm not sure what, what, what, we're like disagreeing on here. Like I'm not understanding what's like, 

[00:44:54] Eldar: uh, I think the disagreement is between you thinking like, oh, like it has to be kind of on that person's thing where it's like they have to finally get to some point to be humble and to raise the right questions and stuff like that in order to finally break through or have some kind of actionable thing where, versus me, I'm telling you that because of the fact that we're in this position sometimes to be able to raise certain awareness, how do we do it in most efficient way, in the best way possible so that awareness continues to grow Because it wa, like I said, it was given, opportunity was given for us to teach.

[00:45:31] You know what I'm saying? 

[00:45:31] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:32] Eldar: I can call him right now. I mean, if he forgot it, then he forgot it. I don't forget this. 

[00:45:35] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:36] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[00:45:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:39] Eldar: Like, he wasn't like apprehensive here. What I'm saying when I brought that topic right in. 

[00:45:44] Mike: No, 

[00:45:44] Eldar: he was happy to discuss it. Yeah. He was right in wrong, right into it.

[00:45:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:47] Eldar: You know what I mean? Because of the fact that he called me beforehand with the nonsense about, Hey, what do you think about this? I'm do, I'm trying to do the hypnosis. You know what I'm saying? I give him my thoughts, you know what I mean? And we talked about the fact that he's struggling and stuff.

[00:46:00] He told me all this shit, you know what I mean? He's struggling. 

[00:46:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:46:04] Eldar: You know, that he needs help. You know, he wanted my thoughts, he wanted my like, you know. Yeah. I told him my honest thoughts about, uh, what's his name. Yeah. Hypnosis versus therapy. 

[00:46:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:46:13] Eldar: And we talked about this more here, you know, so it is a continuation.

[00:46:17] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:18] Eldar: So, uh, the gripe that I'm having is with myself more than anything. 

[00:46:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:46:22] Eldar: Yeah. That I wasn't effective. 

[00:46:23] Mike: Well, 

[00:46:24] Eldar: I think in my call, I think, um, 

[00:46:28] Toliy: so what, what could be done to have an effective call? 

[00:46:30] Eldar: I told you only, uh, summon his memory. And the memory was of this moment and the me, the one thing that we did.

[00:46:38] So 

[00:46:38] Toliy: what. What would you have said? 

[00:46:40] Eldar: I would've asked him the question whether or not you're still interpreting the world in, in, in such a way that brings you pain. 

[00:46:45] Toliy: And what do you think he would say back? 

[00:46:46] Eldar: I, I don't care. We would have a conversation about that. 

[00:46:48] Toliy: No, but what, what would he say? 

[00:46:51] Eldar: Uh, doesn't matter what he says.

[00:46:53] Toliy: No, but I'm saying what do, what do you think you would say? 

[00:46:57] Eldar: Yeah, probably he would say Yeah, probably. Yeah. 

[00:47:01] Toliy: Okay. 

[00:47:02] Eldar: He can't, like, the thing is you can lie, but then you can't lie to me at that point because I know where I'm on. You know what I'm saying? 

[00:47:08] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:47:09] Eldar: Because the next question would be, okay, so then are you drinking?

[00:47:11] You know what I mean? Kind of thing. Yeah. Are you doing that there? Are you hurting yourself? 

[00:47:14] Toliy: And then he would, and then he, he, he could say like, yeah, yeah. But like, you know, not, definitely not, not as bad as it was last. It's all 

[00:47:20] Mike: speculation. I, 

[00:47:21] Toliy: yeah. 

[00:47:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:22] Mike: We really don't know 

[00:47:24] Toliy: any of this. No, but I'm trying to think like, what could, what would be like the best case scenario?

[00:47:27] It's like I'm having a hard time getting, yeah. Getting to like what would actually be real, 

[00:47:32] Mike: A lot of times when has conversations with people, but then he gets exactly what he wants. Well, yeah. And this is just a different person who's in a different place. 

[00:47:40] Eldar: She's under the impression that I wouldn't, uh, open this can of worms 

[00:47:43] Mike: up.

[00:47:43] I agree. 

[00:47:43] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm saying that, that's what I'm saying to myself now. Yeah. I'm raising awareness to myself now. Yeah. The next time I do call 

[00:47:50] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:47:50] Eldar: I'm gonna have a more meaningful conversation if I'm gonna call. 

[00:47:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:47:53] Eldar: You know what I mean? Because I can completely drop the ball now. You know what I mean?

[00:47:56] I win for the end. 

[00:47:58] Mike: Yes. 

[00:47:59] Eldar: Where like the, I'm still at the beginning. 

[00:48:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:48:01] Eldar: You know, if he needs to go a hundred points. I was at, you know, I was like at 80 

[00:48:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:48:06] Eldar: Thinking for him. 

[00:48:07] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:48:08] Eldar: He's at 0.001. Yeah. Correct. 

[00:48:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:48:12] Eldar: And that's my fault. 

[00:48:13] Mike: Yeah. Well I think, 

[00:48:14] Eldar: you know what 

[00:48:15] Mike: I mean? Like, um, for me, from my experience and our friendship and the way you've helped me to like, you know 

[00:48:20] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:48:20] Mike: To, to develop more, um, I. In the beginning when we started having conversations about things that I'm, you know, have struggling with or problems. Mm-hmm. Suffering that need to work on. You were very like patient with me. You allowed me to make my mistakes and you're always like there for me when I fell and I came to you be like, yo, I fucked up.

[00:48:41] Eldar: Yeah. We 

[00:48:42] Mike: discussed 

[00:48:42] Eldar: it. 

[00:48:42] Mike: We discussed it. And then I think I could be, because you knew that I couldn't handle 

[00:48:49] Eldar: mm-hmm 

[00:48:50] Mike: The straight like brute force, you know? 

[00:48:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:53] Mike: He was 

[00:48:53] Eldar: sensitive. 

[00:48:54] Mike: I was sensitive and I think that's kind of like in a place where Julius might be and then 

[00:49:01] Eldar: Oh, I think he's a lot further than that.

[00:49:02] Mike: Yeah. He's a lot further. But I'm saying like that's kind in the progression where now I think I've become much more like, uh, I could take shots from you or, yeah. 

[00:49:11] Eldar: I don't bite 

[00:49:11] Mike: my 

[00:49:11] Eldar: tongue as much. 

[00:49:12] Mike: You don't bite your tongue and I ask for the heat because 

[00:49:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:15] Mike: I don't want to obviously suffer and I know how detrimental it is.

[00:49:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:18] Mike: But 

[00:49:19] Eldar: you 

[00:49:19] Mike: cut to the chase. I had to get Baed for a long time. 

[00:49:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:22] Mike: By you. 

[00:49:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:24] Mike: In order to finally be like, oh, okay. I don't need to wear the fucking training wheels anymore. 

[00:49:28] Eldar: Correct. But the only reason why it was that is because my assessment of the situation. Yes. Obviously, I don't want to bite my tongue in conversations.

[00:49:36] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:49:36] Eldar: You know what I mean? I go case by case. 

[00:49:39] Mike: Well, that 

[00:49:39] Eldar: totally always talks about this. That's what I'm saying. My case, he always wants to be the person who doesn't bite his tongue. Yeah. And because he doesn't, a lot of times that gets him in trouble. I knew the repercussions behind not biting my tongue back then.

[00:49:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:49:52] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[00:49:52] Mike: Of course. 

[00:49:53] Eldar: Now that we are on the same playing, uh, field and we understand each other, 

[00:49:57] Mike: yeah. 

[00:49:57] Eldar: I'm completely ready for the repercussions behind this. And if we are not on the same page, because I'm not biting my tongue. That's great. 

[00:50:04] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:50:04] Eldar: You know what I mean? That's it. This is when we finally meet the end of the road and we know where we both stand.

[00:50:09] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. 

[00:50:09] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[00:50:10] Mike: A hundred percent. Yeah. And I think, and that, that's what I'm saying is exactly what's happening right now. You. Not you, but like I'm saying, Julius my naive able to even take the sensitive approach 

[00:50:20] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:50:20] Mike: That you gave me in the beginning, he needs something even more softer than that.

[00:50:23] Eldar: Correct. 

[00:50:24] Mike: And that's what I'm 

[00:50:24] Eldar: trying to figure 

[00:50:25] Mike: out, how far gone he is with his problems. Mm-hmm. Stresses, predicaments, whatever you wanna call it. 

[00:50:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:32] Mike: He can't probably even handle that. The sensitive approach. You gotta go extra sensitive, you know? 

[00:50:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:36] Mike: But at, and I think this is, you know, more towards what you were saying, as the person becomes, gets a thicker skin, they're able to like, take more criticism and the ego is less present in conversations or less frequent, then you can give 'em that stuff because the person already has themselves seeing the, like, the benefits of being challenged, you know, uh, not being ignorant or arrogant, but that's gonna take time.

[00:51:03] Think about it, the person has grew themselves for 40 years. Yeah. Let's just say Joy is almost 40. He's been on an arrogant campaign for 40 years. Yeah. And nobody's been able to stop him. He's crazy as fuck. Like he's a nonstop yapper. 

[00:51:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:17] Mike: He's been doing this his whole life. 20 years at least with us.

[00:51:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:21] Mike: Like to undo that, like those automated responses that he thrives in which he, you know, and he thrives in his whole day. 

[00:51:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:31] Mike: Outside of us. 

[00:51:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:32] Mike: Is gonna take a lot of, like a lot of little stuff. 

[00:51:36] Eldar: I'm, we will be the virus. 

[00:51:38] Mike: We'll be the virus, but the virus to his system. To his 

[00:51:40] Eldar: system. 

[00:51:40] Mike: Yeah. It would be a crazy virus and it would take time to uncode 20, 30, 40 years of coding.

[00:51:46] Yeah. It's, it's like, you know, like subconscious behavior, right. 

[00:51:51] Toliy: No, I'm not. I'm like, I'm not in disagreement with that. I, I just have my reservations whether the person actually wants to go on this, um, journey to begin with. 

[00:52:01] Eldar: You always have those reservations though. 

[00:52:03] Toliy: You know, 

[00:52:03] Eldar: you never believe like, obviously, you know, I know like when he called me, like I know how like serious or not serious the guy is.

[00:52:10] Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I know that there's certain pains that like, you know. It could have been a fluff call, whatever. Yeah. But it did happen. And obviously I take it for face value. Yeah. I tried to take it for face value because I don't want to be a dickhead. Yeah. You know what I mean? Um, so I'll do my part on my side.

[00:52:26] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:26] Eldar: Whether or not the person has the stamina on their side. That's a different conversation. And like if he falls off of it. If he falls off of it, and I'm okay with that. I get it. You know, this stuff is not easy, you know, to change, like you said, 40 years of programming. 

[00:52:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:39] Eldar: It's hard, you know? Um, but I don't want to get into engagements that I got into without like coming out of it in such a way where I usually come out of like, I like to come out of, 

[00:52:51] Mike: yeah.

[00:52:51] Eldar: He just coined me as a buddy. And that's it. Hey buddy. What's up buddy? You know this buddy, you 

[00:52:55] Mike: know, like, yeah. 

[00:52:56] Eldar: What the fuck? 

[00:52:57] Mike: That's because like you caught the guy who was off duty. 

[00:53:00] Eldar: I know. Yeah, I know that. 

[00:53:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:02] Eldar: On duty. 

[00:53:03] Mike: On duty. Yeah. That's, that's guy guy. Dudes on duty all the time. All the 

[00:53:05] Eldar: time. 

[00:53:06] Mike: All the time.

[00:53:06] Eldar: Correct. Correct. 

[00:53:07] Mike: And, and then, yeah, but to knock on the door of the guy. Mm-hmm. 

[00:53:10] Eldar: There's a 

[00:53:11] Mike: lot of 

[00:53:11] Eldar: people blocking 

[00:53:12] Mike: the 

[00:53:12] Eldar: security. Do you wanna try knocking on his door now? Should we call him? Sure. He's gonna get me with a buddy or what? 

[00:53:19] Toliy: When, when did you call him? Last 

[00:53:21] Eldar: couple days ago. Couple days ago. Let's see if he picks up.

[00:53:23] Hey, 

[00:53:24] Julius: S up. What's up buddy? 

[00:53:25] Eldar: What's going on, buddy? 

[00:53:27] Julius: Nothing. I, I'm actually just got home summer work. I'm actually talking to my mom. 

[00:53:32] Eldar: Okay. Bring beer. 

[00:53:33] How 

[00:53:33] Julius: you guys doing? 

[00:53:34] Eldar: Nice. Nice. Yeah, we we're actually talking about you here. We are on, we're on air. You're live right now. 

[00:53:39] Julius: Oh God. 

[00:53:40] Eldar: We, we have a question. Do you have, do you have a minute?

[00:53:42] Julius: What's up? What's the question? Yeah, sure. 

[00:53:44] Eldar: All right. The question, so we were discussing. To which degree were you actually aware during the last podcast about the problems and everything else that we were raising, right? The fact that Uhhuh, your interpretation of the world has been incorrect this whole time, and this is causing you lots of pain, immense amount of pain, and therefore you've developed the problem that you've developed drinking.

[00:54:06] Well, 

[00:54:07] Julius: that's just called ignorance. 

[00:54:08] Eldar: Yes. So how, how much, how, how aware are you of this, of this, uh, specific point? 

[00:54:14] Julius: I'm very aware. 

[00:54:16] Eldar: You're very aware. 

[00:54:16] Julius: I mean, I'm very aware that my, the, the, the environment that I put myself into, and not only sometimes it causes me to be, you know, causes the, the, let's say the result, 

[00:54:26] Eldar: the pain.

[00:54:27] Julius: I mean, well, yeah, 

[00:54:28] Eldar: pain and 

[00:54:29] Julius: pain. 

[00:54:30] Eldar: So, so would you say that we have an ongoing conversation or a storyline that we can continue to talk about this in order to raise more awareness about this in order to one day maybe you can find ways to do better. 

[00:54:42] Julius: Yeah. I mean, I've already, you know, started different ways, you know, a little bit at a time.

[00:54:48] Eldar: All right, cool. So it's exciting. 

[00:54:51] Julius: Yeah. Yeah. It's, 

[00:54:52] Eldar: you're excited 

[00:54:53] Julius: time, right? 

[00:54:53] Eldar: What, what if I told you that some people in this room don't believe that you actually excited about it? That you actually terrified? 

[00:55:00] Julius: No, I'm actually, what do you mean? I mean, I've seen results on others. 

[00:55:03] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:55:03] Julius: So that's what I'm excited about.

[00:55:05] Eldar: Alright, cool. 

[00:55:05] Julius: You know, I've seen somebody that doesn't drink anything, but, you know, like literally went from partying to, to drinking water only. Okay. And he's, I never thought he would quit. And it's like, you know, he's like, dude, like you don't understand. He is like, bro, it's like the fogs lifts and it's fucking, they the clear mind.

[00:55:22] And this is mind blowing. Okay. He's like, he's like, well, your mind is like, it's like you distract yourself, like the ideas and everything you have, you just wash it away. 

[00:55:30] Eldar: You're talking about a friend. 

[00:55:32] Julius: Hmm. Yeah, I'm talking about a friend, but it's like, I kind of understand similarities of it. He is much older than me now, but.

[00:55:38] And, uh, I met him a couple of years ago that saw the difference, like within one, like three months or so. 

[00:55:43] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:55:43] Julius: It's just the entire, you know, it's like the energy that he spent on what I spend on. Mm-hmm. Like, it's just trying to figure out like, what's this, what's that? Like you could be focused on different things.

[00:55:53] Eldar: Okay. But how mu how, how aware are you of the fact that if you change the way you interpret the world around you, right? And the way you communicate with the world, 

[00:56:00] Julius: well, that's kind of like, it's, it's like reeducating yourself. Like, I mean, what, gimme an example of like, what, what would be, what would you think my interpretation is different than yours?

[00:56:08] And like, what causes me? 

[00:56:09] Eldar: Well, 

[00:56:09] Julius: an idea. Like, let's say, let, let's try to spitball, right? Uhhuh. Think about it like, like lack of understanding. Like, not like being ignorant, not being ignorant. Like, even if sometimes it's a gift because you're not aware of the bullshit around it. 

[00:56:21] Eldar: Well, like conclusions about the world, for example, like, uh, I just find it that a lot of times you can like, you know, if, if we talk about any topic or whatever right?

[00:56:29] You kind of very quick with just shooting off answers and like you actually know something about that thing. I'm, yeah. I'm a little bit more cautious about that because I really don't know. Right. There's so many different variables out there, uhhuh that, that can, you know, turn that 

[00:56:43] Julius: answer upside down.

[00:56:44] Well, I, there's opinion thing. Yeah. I mean, I say there's opinion thing, but most of the time I'm backing up with fact and I can have an argument with a bunch of different things, but yeah, because I have too much random shit in my head, but sometimes it comes, it's actually coming to fruition of like, I'm actually putting it to use now because, you know, like different things of knowledge 

[00:57:02] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[00:57:03] Julius: Of I have that could actually apply to my, you know, my job and it's been serving you. Yeah. 

[00:57:08] Eldar: Like 

[00:57:08] Julius: the, yeah, like I, it's just, it's not even my critical thinking. Like it's, I can apply things that I know of. Yeah. Yeah. And actually use that as an example and try to, you know, attack things differently, you know, breaking things down certain way.

[00:57:21] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:57:22] Julius: So it's, it's, it's kind of, it's, it's a gift and a curse in a way, you know? Mm-hmm. But like, I've actually worked on the whole thing, like not trying to be center, the attention, talking in the world. Like, I, I just started a new 

[00:57:31] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:57:32] Julius: Job a couple of weeks ago in a place that nobody knows me 

[00:57:34] Eldar: completely.

[00:57:35] Julius: Okay. But they're gonna 

[00:57:36] Eldar: get to know you real quick. 

[00:57:37] Julius: I literally know, I literally for the past two weeks is like, everybody's like you, he's like, but he fucking hired a fucking confidential informant. But my man don't talk to nobody. 

[00:57:45] Eldar: I like that. You should just say, I don't speak English. 

[00:57:47] Julius: Yeah. I like, and little by little they were like, not little by little, but like, I'll just drop some facts.

[00:57:53] Like, like what do you mean? Just simple shit? Because there's a lot of them younger, the other guys are much older, so I'm like, I'm like in the middle, so. Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:01] Eldar: But 

[00:58:02] Julius: I kind of, there's like, my work speaks for itself. Like I don't fucking. I don't have to get on a basketball court and tell people I know how to play ball.

[00:58:09] Like at the end of the day they're gonna find out. 

[00:58:10] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:58:11] You 

[00:58:11] Julius: know, 

[00:58:12] Eldar: I hear you. Dreams are over, 

[00:58:12] Julius: man. 

[00:58:13] Eldar: The dreams are over. Jules, I held you than I wanted. 

[00:58:17] Julius: Example. Yeah. You go. But my, my first progress was like, for the first time in a while, that actually went and snowboard the entire day without actually drink or beer or anything.

[00:58:27] And I fucking had an awesome day. Okay. Back to back. So it's like, let build, enjoy. Like now it's like, now it's like an, now it's more, a little bit more of like an addiction to it that has to be controlled. It's financially that shit burns a hole in your pocket. 

[00:58:38] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:39] Julius: You know, not, if not one addiction's another.

[00:58:42] Right. 

[00:58:42] Eldar: For sure. Alright, Jules, thank you for that. It's 

[00:58:45] Julius: just, alright, take care guys. 

[00:58:47] Eldar: Alright, Jules. Thanks. Bye-Bye. 

[00:58:48] Julius: All. 

[00:58:50] Eldar: Listen, I think I did better, but he still steamrolled me at the end. He did? Yeah. Yeah. He said that a uncle Ronnie, there was a 

[00:58:57] Mike: moment, there was a, there was a moment in the beginning where he was calm.

[00:59:00] Yeah. The energy was 

[00:59:01] Eldar: okay and then he, and then he fucking went. 

[00:59:02] Mike: He went, yeah. Yeah. But it's also like, you know. 

[00:59:05] Eldar: Yeah. So, yeah. All right. So see, she's aware 

[00:59:09] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:09] Eldar: Or no? 

[00:59:10] Mike: Of what, right now? 

[00:59:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:59:13] Mike: For about a second. 

[00:59:14] Eldar: You know, she remembers Yeah. For the moment. Right. Obviously, you know, I mean, yeah. It's probably forceful, right.

[00:59:23] But that's, I'd rather have that type of a conversation. 

[00:59:26] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:26] Eldar: Right. More than anything, than, than the fucking complete nonsense. 

[00:59:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:30] Eldar: So, 

[00:59:31] Mike: yeah, you had, you actually had like a somewhat of a conversation. 

[00:59:33] Eldar: Yeah, he, he, yeah, he gave me, gave me some time to talk. 

[00:59:37] Mike: Yeah, yeah, 

[00:59:38] yeah. 

[00:59:38] Mike: But it's, you know 

[00:59:39] Eldar: mm-hmm. It's also, yeah, 

[00:59:41] Mike: it, the environment here was very 

[00:59:42] Eldar: controlled.

[00:59:43] Oh, no. Yeah. He's, he's already, uh, he's already sing. Yeah. He's sing. Yeah. So 

[00:59:47] Toliy: Nicole was over once he already answered saying, Hey, buddy. 

[00:59:50] Eldar: Yeah. And that the other call, when I was coming here to work when I, like, I, I couldn't get a word in. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I. It was just, that's it. And it was done.

[00:59:59] Like, I was like, okay, buddy, buddy, buddy. And he is like, got me off the phone. This time I had to like push him off the phone. 

[01:00:03] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:04] Eldar: But, okay, so, um, where were we? Yeah, so go back to your 

[01:00:07] Mike: question, 

[01:00:08] Eldar: back to the fact that like, obviously, you know, I don't reach out to him a lot, you know, but if I do, I'd like to have moments like these more Yeah.

[01:00:16] Where we can have a conversation on topic. 

[01:00:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:19] Eldar: Because this was on topic, obviously it was still hard 

[01:00:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:21] Eldar: Because of the way, just the dynamic that he has 

[01:00:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:24] Eldar: Of how you can just like, yo, I'm just gonna own you left and Right. I'm gonna defend myself as much as possible. Yeah. You see, he's very defensive.

[01:00:30] Mike: Yep. 

[01:00:31] Eldar: You know, in that conversation. Um, but I think that I can find pockets of freedom in order to actually have a conversation. 

[01:00:38] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:00:39] Eldar: That comes out in such a way where like, um, I'm okay with that. 

[01:00:42] Toliy: You know what I mean? Yeah. I feel like the, the, the way he communicated is that like, um, he understands what's going on, he's aware of it.

[01:00:49] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:50] Toliy: Um, which to me is a very confident statement to, to make. 

[01:00:54] Eldar: Yeah, it is. 

[01:00:55] Toliy: And then second off, it sounded like. That he has things under control. 

[01:00:58] Eldar: Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. 

[01:01:01] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:01:01] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:01:01] Toliy: So, 

[01:01:02] Eldar: and that's why I obviously get the clue 

[01:01:04] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:01:04] Eldar: I'm not gonna be keep, like calling him and pushing it, obviously.

[01:01:07] Yes. You know, I don't like, that's not my, I don't also, I definitely don't want to teach when not asked, you know what I mean? But a lot of times he will come across like that up until time passes and then you finally Yeah. I 

[01:01:17] Toliy: feel, yeah. I feel like 

[01:01:18] Eldar: comes crawling, like you said, you 

[01:01:19] Toliy: know, like, yeah. I feel like with pain, and then if the person is still back in the same place, they're gonna have to keep reaching out and they're, and every time, even if they, you know, you know, time passes and whatever, there's no conversation.

[01:01:32] Mm-hmm. The next time they come back 

[01:01:34] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:01:34] Toliy: Obviously it's a different starting point. 

[01:01:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:01:37] Toliy: And they have to, I think that it might be lower. Th this is to me where like the actual soul comes in. The soul knows 

[01:01:45] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:01:46] Toliy: Th that they have to come Correct. Or they, they have to like mm-hmm. More correct than before.

[01:01:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:01:50] Toliy: And that's gonna happen every single time more and more. 

[01:01:52] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:53] Toliy: Right. Um, because. They actually consciously felt a pain. 

[01:01:58] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:01:59] Toliy: That hurts. Yeah. Which is why I think that there's gonna be a natural humility, a natural better, little bit better every single time. I agree, agree. Because of that. I agree.

[01:02:10] I agree. 'cause of the pain, the because of the strong pain that was felt, and the soul does not want to get back to that place. Not, not that it, it definitely won't. It at least doesn't want to that person at, at, at that time. But sometimes then when you realize what the workload is, you realize what it takes.

[01:02:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:28] Toliy: Unfortunately, you or, or, or know, or fortunately or, or just it is what it is. 

[01:02:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:33] Toliy: You will still feel that pain and still be put in that same position. 

[01:02:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:37] Toliy: Just my point is that every single time I think it'll be better and better, but it, the person has, well, the, the, it, it's, it's almost like if, if, if we have like a, like a, like a vulnerability bank.

[01:02:48] Mm-hmm. 

[01:02:48] Eldar: Right. 

[01:02:49] Toliy: The person will have to deposit more to get the opportunity to withdraw every single time that they have an interaction with you. Yeah, and I'm, and I'm talking about the sense of like, not like a one-time conversation or something. I'm talking about. Uh, like if they actually want to, to do something, they will have to invest more at the beginning of that, um, stage.

[01:03:11] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:11] Toliy: Then if it doesn't work out, and for example, there's six months zero or a year or two more, zero. 

[01:03:16] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:16] Toliy: The next time they'll have to deposit more, and then if there's some something that happens, there's progression, then it falls off next time they'll have to deposit more. 

[01:03:23] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:23] Toliy: That, that, that to me is what will happen.

[01:03:26] But that, that, that's where I view it as that like, um, for a person that does not live a good life, a person that suffers, I think it is, it, it it's on them to put to, to, to, like they. They have to be at like a loss. Like they have to take a loss. They have to take an out. 

[01:03:48] Eldar: Well, it's inevitable. 

[01:03:48] Toliy: Yes, 

[01:03:49] Eldar: I agree.

[01:03:49] Toliy: And if they're not willing to do that, then that no problem. 

[01:03:54] Eldar: I don't see, the thing is like, I think that, um, because of the way the conversation is or was just now, there is a chance now for a loss and you know what the law is. I have an argument and he has an argument. Yeah. We just argued 

[01:04:08] Toliy: we'll see.

[01:04:09] Eldar: Correct. Correct. This is the argument. 

[01:04:12] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:04:12] Eldar: We're gonna see whether or not his theory is right or my theory is right. Right. He's saying, look, Eldar, uh, because I told him what my problem is. Right. My like, look, you interpret the world this way and therefore it leads to this. Right. And and quickly he even mentioned that like yeah, I realized like I don't have to be center of attention anymore.

[01:04:28] Right. Like because, 'cause of the arrogance that I've mentioned. Right? Yep. So there's that argument there. 

[01:04:32] Toliy: But he also a little bit insin away that, hey, like it's, he just knows a lot more information. He might just be dumb man, 

[01:04:37] Eldar: and it works for him. Yes. 

[01:04:38] Toliy: You know, 

[01:04:39] like 

[01:04:39] Eldar: it might 

[01:04:40] Toliy: stupid and you don't know.

[01:04:41] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:04:41] Toliy: A lot about all these different subjects. Sure. And he does. 

[01:04:43] Eldar: He does. But now we are at odds. 

[01:04:45] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:04:45] Eldar: There's my side kind of thing. And that's his side. 

[01:04:47] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:48] Eldar: Right? At that time when he was here, he obviously agreed with a lot of this stuff. Right. But then if there's no follow through, he continues to go back to his own side, what he agrees with.

[01:04:57] That's why he continues to be the center of retention or whatever, or whatever that he's doing. Right. That's one of the examples that we brought up. Yeah. That's why he even tried to justify it by saying, yeah, I'm in a new work environment. Yeah. I'm not even talking a lot. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm like flying a low key and shit.

[01:05:10] Yep. But it's very hard for him to do that. Right. Yeah. So he's testing out the theory or whatnot. Right. But if he falls, if he goes with the arrogant route, I think he's gonna find out, like you said. 

[01:05:20] Toliy: Well, I think he already did. 

[01:05:21] Eldar: You think so? Yeah, that was pretty quick. 

[01:05:23] Toliy: Like, I think he already, like, 

[01:05:25] Eldar: okay.

[01:05:26] Toliy: Yeah. Like I already see, like to me, there's already been a fall 

[01:05:28] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:05:29] Toliy: With the actions that have been taken. Mm-hmm. But there may be a time where he will return. Mm-hmm. But again, there will be a larger deposit required. 

[01:05:39] Eldar: I agree with you. 

[01:05:41] Toliy: Yeah, 

[01:05:41] Eldar: I agree with you. And that's where the character building and development happens.

[01:05:44] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Just 

[01:05:45] Eldar: like, this is what I'm talking about. Yes. I was talking about how do we structure, or how do we end the conversation in such a way where we actually know where we both stand and what roles we play in each other's lives. 

[01:05:55] Toliy: Yeah. See, I, I feel like you, for you guys to know where you both stand.

[01:05:59] Like at one 

[01:06:00] Eldar: person 

[01:06:01] Toliy: Yeah. Only you. Yeah. But you already know where you stand. 

[01:06:03] Eldar: You know, 

[01:06:03] Toliy: you, you, were you already to to, to me, I just feel, well, 

[01:06:06] Eldar: clearly not because I made that phone call and I completely shit my, my 

[01:06:08] Toliy: fucking Yeah. But I just feel like that's a mistake on your end. 

[01:06:11] Eldar: That's what 

[01:06:11] Toliy: I'm 

[01:06:11] Eldar: saying. 

[01:06:12] Toliy: But I But you weren't thinking, um, w which like rarely happens, obviously.

[01:06:17] I, I think, um, yeah. And that, that's what happened. Mm-hmm. You know. Um, but I think yeah, once you start to think, I think you know exactly where you stand. 

[01:06:27] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:28] Toliy: And I think, you know, where he stands and it sounds like he has a, you know, uncle Ronald is a good mentor, you know? Yeah. To, to lead him on the path 

[01:06:36] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:06:36] Toliy: You know, this other guy. 

[01:06:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:38] Toliy: You know? 

[01:06:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:39] Toliy: Like, like that. 

[01:06:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:40] Toliy: You know, so Yeah. Like, um, yeah, I just feel that like, um, I've suffered so much and I've been through very particular like gauntlets and I know how they are and I know that there's plenty of times where I failed at it. 

[01:06:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:56] Toliy: Even though I was given an opportunity to to, to do so.

[01:06:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:00] Toliy: Did I know what's going on? Absolutely not. Otherwise, like if you know, then you obviously wouldn't, 

[01:07:04] Eldar: will do the right thing. 

[01:07:04] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. Then you'll obviously do the right thing. But I also knew that when I failed and I didn't know what happened, and that eventually when I suffered more and my, my naturally it came, it came 

[01:07:16] Eldar: to that, to that conclusion.

[01:07:18] Toliy: What happened was my, my suffering. Naturally produces curiosity for me down the line. Yes. It always will. 

[01:07:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:25] Toliy: You know? Yeah. And that, that, that, that's like, like, you know what, what some, someone brings me like peace because mm-hmm. I know that like the suffering builds up to then get curious to then, then ask questions.

[01:07:37] And then all those failures, all those opportunities you gave me all the pieces. Hard to do it. Oh, this is what you were saying. 

[01:07:44] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:45] Toliy: This is what you were asking of me. Yeah. This is why you didn't tell me this. 

[01:07:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:49] Toliy: Right. 

[01:07:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:49] Toliy: That to me is when those pieces connect and now there's like a story that, or like, or like, now there's like a book I wanna read.

[01:07:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:59] Toliy: Right. 

[01:07:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:08:00] Toliy: And when that happens, now it's up to me to, um, to be, to prove to you. I would say that's like initiative. 

[01:08:06] Eldar: Well, to yourself. 

[01:08:07] Toliy: Well, well, y yes. But I, I, I'm saying that you, in those scenarios, as a person, that, that holds the knowledge. It's up to me to prove to you that I actually wanna learn.

[01:08:17] Eldar: Hmm. Okay. Yeah. 

[01:08:18] Toliy: That's how I view it. 

[01:08:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:08:20] Toliy: But to do that, I need to probably fall a bunch of times. Mm-hmm. I need to suffer a bunch of times so that I can summon the right curiosity to give me then an opportunity to put some pieces together. 

[01:08:32] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:33] Toliy: To be even more curious, because now you realize that like, hey, there's like, when, when you're ignorant about some something mm-hmm.

[01:08:40] Eldar: And 

[01:08:40] Toliy: then you get a moment of like, not even understanding what's going on. Just knowing that like, yo shit happened before that I didn't even see was happening. Mm-hmm. But it actually ha happened. 

[01:08:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:08:50] Toliy: Once you see that, it's almost like, yo, you almost get a bit like scared about like, oh shit. 

[01:08:55] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:55] Toliy: What the fuck happened here?

[01:08:57] Eldar: Oh, that was like a, this whole thing played out and it was pre-programmed. 

[01:08:59] Toliy: Yes. Yes. 

[01:09:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:09:01] Toliy: Like this was actually playing out. Mm-hmm. You were actually seeing it in real time. 

[01:09:04] Eldar: Yes. Yeah. 

[01:09:05] Toliy: And I wasn't. Mm-hmm. Now to me, like, now I have a crazy, what, 

[01:09:09] Eldar: what else am I wrong about? 

[01:09:10] Toliy: Well, yeah, that's, that's an interesting point.

[01:09:12] Now I have a crazy curiosity about like, what's going on here. Mm-hmm. And then once I put those pieces together 

[01:09:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:09:18] Toliy: It then to, to me, a crazy journey starts. 

[01:09:22] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:22] Toliy: Right? 

[01:09:23] Eldar: Yeah. But 

[01:09:23] Toliy: that's later. I also, yes. 

[01:09:25] Eldar: How do you get everybody like that, you know, to that point. 

[01:09:27] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that, that's what I'm saying.

[01:09:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:09:32] Toliy: You know, so I, yeah. I, yeah. I'm just coming from, from, from that camp of like, um, I do think the person who knows, can give particular opportunities or again, start to poke at particular things. 

[01:09:44] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:45] Toliy: But I, I do think the other person, they need to be willing to suffer more right now to put themselves in a position to build on their life and to actually start to find shit out.

[01:09:58] And then that has to mm-hmm. Be interesting enough and curious enough for themselves. To continue 

[01:10:05] Eldar: to become the engineer, 

[01:10:06] Toliy: to continue that, that, that, that, that story that you're talking about. 

[01:10:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:09] Toliy: And to cont continue to pick up where you left off. 

[01:10:12] Eldar: Left off. Yes. 

[01:10:12] Toliy: Right. 

[01:10:13] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:10:13] Toliy: Um, but to get, because otherwise it's 

[01:10:15] Eldar: a broken fucking thing.

[01:10:17] Toliy: It's broken to get to that point. 

[01:10:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:18] Toliy: There needs to be pain. 

[01:10:20] Eldar: I agree 

[01:10:21] Toliy: there. And, and the, the most painful thing mm-hmm. Is again, like admitting of wrong, realizing you got it wrong. 

[01:10:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:28] Toliy: Um, admitting to the responsibility of it. 

[01:10:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:31] Toliy: All those emotions that come with that are extremely difficult to process.

[01:10:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:35] Toliy: And most of the time, once they're met a little bit, they usually kind of scare you off. Yeah. And then the u usually have to then, um, create some kind of story back to you, the person who actually knows saying, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Like, yo, 

[01:10:48] Eldar: yeah, 

[01:10:49] Toliy: it's not that bad. Or like, yeah, I might, yeah, I'm actually changing.

[01:10:51] Like, like mm-hmm. Like, like, don't worry about it buddy. 

[01:10:53] Eldar: Yeah, 

[01:10:53] Toliy: buddy. Um, they, they have to almost create that kind of illusion that they have things under control. 

[01:10:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:58] Toliy: Because. You're the inspector coming in saying, I don't think you have it under control. 

[01:11:02] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

[01:11:03] Toliy: And once they feel that, yeah.

[01:11:05] That, I don't think you're right about this. 

[01:11:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:07] Toliy: They have to do everything possible to defend Yeah. Their paper built fortress. 

[01:11:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:11] Toliy: You know of as to why they actually do have some things, right? Mm-hmm. And why they did get it right. And why No, no. All there. I didn't get it all wrong. And 

[01:11:18] Eldar: that's exactly what happened on that call.

[01:11:20] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:11:22] Eldar: I agree. 

[01:11:23] Toliy: Yeah. That call could not have been met with like a si like Yeah. There I, I've continued to be a piece of shit and I don't really know what's going on. 

[01:11:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:37] Toliy: I'm really glad you called. 

[01:11:38] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:39] Toliy: And I'm really glad 

[01:11:40] Mike: you called. That's sure What, I couldn't have gone like that. Mm-hmm. 

[01:11:41] Toliy: And I'm really glad you called.

[01:11:43] Eldar: Yeah. I was actually, you know, reflecting, you 

[01:11:46] Mike: know,

[01:11:50] that's not where the person's at. Yeah. 

[01:11:54] Eldar: Yeah. Listen, the burden is on us. Right. I think to position ourselves and continue to string along that same story. And I think that through that type of phone call, I'd rather have that, that next time when he comes over or next time he calls, I'm gonna pick up right where we left off.

[01:12:12] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:12:13] Eldar: I'm gonna continue to argue with him. And the argument's gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And somebody's gotta crack, like you said. Yeah. And somebody has to go through the, through that level of pain in order to finally wake up and come differently. And that difference is that when it finally starts, but we need to find that pain threshold.

[01:12:32] Talked about that. 

[01:12:33] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:12:34] Eldar: Everyone has their own pain threshold. 

[01:12:36] Toliy: Yeah. But like I, I don't feel like we need to find. He's just gonna like that, that, uh, that's, no, 

[01:12:43] Eldar: he's gonna find it. 

[01:12:44] Toliy: Yeah. He's gonna find 

[01:12:45] Eldar: it. Yeah. It's gonna, no, it's gonna find him. 

[01:12:47] Toliy: Yeah. He doesn't have to look for it. 

[01:12:48] Eldar: Yeah, you're right. Yes. Yeah.

[01:12:49] It's gonna find him. You're right. 

[01:12:50] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:12:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:12:51] Toliy: You know? 

[01:12:52] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:52] Toliy: That's gonna happen. 

[01:12:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:12:53] Toliy: And whether he wants to continue to not take responsibility for his pains. 

[01:12:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:12:59] Toliy: That, to me is the, the, uh, the, to, to, to me, like that's always somewhat of a conscious choice, 

[01:13:06] Eldar: really. 

[01:13:07] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like that's always somewhat of a conscious choice, where like, you know, you're not taking responsibility for it.

[01:13:12] You're gonna, you're, you're, you're seeking reasons, you're seeking, like that's you doing that, you're, you're, you're seeking excuses or you're seeking evading 

[01:13:22] Eldar: to 

[01:13:22] Toliy: Eva reasons. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because there, there's obvious, I mean, there, there, there's something stopping him from saying that, like, Hey, I've been getting it wrong for all this time.

[01:13:33] Eldar: Well, I mean, I, the ego's supposed to have its own defense system. 

[01:13:37] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:13:37] Eldar: Right? 

[01:13:38] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:13:39] Eldar: He's gonna def the ego has to defend to the, to the death. Yeah. Of course. Of its own, 

[01:13:43] Toliy: yeah. Of 

[01:13:43] Eldar: itself. 

[01:13:44] Toliy: Yeah. I'm, yeah, I'm just saying that like, I, I, I, I feel like if you're being vocal about, like saying like, hey, um, by saying that you have things under control or like, you know, this or that, like continuing in that kind of way, you're basically like, I'm being like, put a pause on me.

[01:14:00] Yeah. The, the, the, the ego saying, Hey, I'm alive and well. Mm-hmm. And things are good. 

[01:14:04] Eldar: Don't 

[01:14:05] Toliy: call me. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't try to ruin what we got. 'cause we got a good thing going. 

[01:14:09] Eldar: I agree with you. 

[01:14:09] Toliy: Right? 

[01:14:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:10] Toliy: So when they say that, like, I feel like that's perfectly fine. 

[01:14:14] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:15] Toliy: No problem. 

[01:14:15] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:14:16] Toliy: Life's gonna continue to play itself out. 

[01:14:18] Eldar: Time will tell 

[01:14:18] Toliy: and we'll see. 

[01:14:19] Eldar: Yeah. We'll see. 

[01:14:20] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:14:21] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:14:21] Toliy: We'll see if that arrogant EE ego knew how to build like the 

[01:14:25] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:14:25] Toliy: The spaceship that they're talking about. 

[01:14:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:27] Toliy: We'll see if they, they knew physics, how things work. 

[01:14:31] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:32] Toliy: That's it. And then when we're like, when time passes and, and you're asked about it.

[01:14:37] We'll see whether the ego wants to continue to make up stories about shit. Right? 

[01:14:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:41] Toliy: Or whether they say like, you know what? I'm tired. 

[01:14:45] Eldar: Yeah. Like, I had enough. 

[01:14:47] Toliy: I had enough. 

[01:14:47] Eldar: Well, yeah, I think we, I think that's, that's what, that's what my whole question from the beginning was this, how do we get Right. The progression of the story to continue to maximize, continue to build on it exponentially where we get to the point of like, I'm fucking exhausted.

[01:15:02] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it's, it's to may maybe ask questions to see how things are going for, for example, ju just to periodically ask how things are going. 

[01:15:12] Eldar: No, but we have, we have concrete things to talk about 

[01:15:14] Toliy: now. No, no, no. I know, but I'm saying that like by asking how things are going 

[01:15:18] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:15:18] Toliy: You allow the person to continue to exhaust.

[01:15:21] All their options as to what they think the path is or what they think they, they need to do. 

[01:15:25] Eldar: Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. If they 

[01:15:26] Toliy: keep making shut up, you'll allow for that to happen. Yeah. Yeah. You, you, for example, you called today, I don't know, in a month you call again. 

[01:15:33] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:15:33] Toliy: And every month you call once if they want to continue saying, Hey, like 

[01:15:37] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[01:15:38] Toliy: Like, I, I have enough gold here to, to mind I'm, I haven't exhausted this 

[01:15:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:42] Toliy: Cave yet. 

[01:15:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:43] Toliy: You know, once they've exhausted all the different things that they think 

[01:15:47] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:15:47] Toliy: That they need to do. 

[01:15:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:49] Toliy: That's when I think that they'll be more receptive. 

[01:15:51] Eldar: I agree with that, 

[01:15:52] Toliy: but right now, I feel like 

[01:15:54] Eldar: should, 

[01:15:54] Toliy: he's in a cave and there's plenty of gold.

[01:15:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:57] Toliy: So 

[01:15:57] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:15:58] Toliy: Try to, to, to, to try to make someone leave that cave full of gold as an injustice. Like, 

[01:16:03] Eldar: oh yeah. 

[01:16:03] They're 

[01:16:03] Toliy: not gonna leave. 

[01:16:04] Eldar: Talk about the aller of the cave. 

[01:16:05] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:16:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:06] Toliy: Until it's the, i they, the, the ego has exhausted everything that they think is possible. Mm-hmm. Or what to do. 

[01:16:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:14] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like those, those questions, those check, check-ins 

[01:16:18] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[01:16:19] Toliy: Especially when they're, there's big gaps in between them. 

[01:16:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:22] Toliy: Well, they're, they're, they're great. 

[01:16:23] Eldar: I should just keep saying one thing, right? Are you still the center of attention? Everywhere you go. Is that a bad one or, no, it's good. It's good. Right? It's like it's straight up to the point. Should I just keep that to, to that question or No?

[01:16:38] Toliy: You could, you could just put him on a, put him, we could put 'em in HubSpot if you want. Put 'em in a sequence. 

[01:16:43] Eldar: Yeah. Put 'em in a sequence like, you know, every week, like 

[01:16:45] Toliy: once every 45 days it just sends a text message 

[01:16:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:16:48] Toliy: Saying 

[01:16:49] Eldar: sick. You're right. Yeah. Are you still putting yourself in the center of attention?

[01:16:53] Toliy: Yeah. Or have you had enough? 

[01:16:55] Eldar: Have you had enough? Yeah, that's a good one. 

[01:16:57] Toliy: You know? 

[01:16:57] Eldar: Yeah. We should do it. We'll set something up. Troll this motherfucker. 

[01:17:03] Toliy: Yeah. Imagine you, you have a business opt, opt in for, uh, opting for, for these painful, uh, 

[01:17:08] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:17:08] Toliy: Check-ins to try to keep, keep you, uh, 

[01:17:10] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:17:11] Toliy: Clo clo closer to reality.

[01:17:12] Eldar: But you first have to identify the bullshit. 

[01:17:14] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:17:14] Eldar: And you have to convince them, right. First they have to kind of raise their hand one time. At least one time, right. To say like, Hey, I'm a bullshitter. I believe this. Right. But then you're gonna track back. Yeah. But that one time you caught 'em, you know, like, go grab you.

[01:17:27] You stole that thing. Stole that cookie. Yeah. So, and then you can put them on that sequence. 

[01:17:33] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:17:34] Eldar: Oh, you've changed. Oh, your life's better. So these things change because you've changed. Yeah. Okay. And they're gonna keep lying to you and they're gonna keep going. Yeah. Up until they can't go anymore. 

[01:17:43] Toliy: Yeah, 

[01:17:44] Eldar: because like, because for us, right?

[01:17:47] For a person who truly doesn't really care or have a horse in a race like that, right. I don't have an attachment for you to lie to me. Like, if you lie to me, cool. I don't care. 

[01:17:55] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:17:55] Eldar: But if you don't lie to me, I don't care either. Like, it's a kind of, not here nor there. So what's the, what's, what's your, what's your gig here?

[01:18:04] Because I don't care. So what are you doing by being dishonest? You vocalizing a liar to yourself, but bouncing it off of me. Who doesn't care? 

[01:18:17] Toliy: Well, 

[01:18:17] Eldar: no, you're the, the, uh, the ego there showing that they care 

[01:18:22] Toliy: and they're gonna protect their truth for as long as they can. 

[01:18:26] Eldar: Okay, now my next question is then what effect does it have where you can sit to yourself and lie to yourself all day long in your own head, but what effect does it actually have if you lie out loud to someone else?

[01:18:38] Especially the, the ones that not gonna nag your care. Like, you know, like your mom who's like, oh, you should stop doing this, or whatever. Who really cares kind of thing, you know? 

[01:18:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:18:46] Eldar: And they, like, you don't, you don't wanna like disappoint them. You have that attachment, right? Like, you don't want to be like seen in that light in front of them.

[01:18:55] Right. Your wife, your kids, I think, or whatever. Right. 

[01:18:58] I 

[01:18:58] Mike: think maybe like, uh, the way you have a person, the reason you're doing it 

[01:19:01] Eldar: uhhuh, 

[01:19:01] Mike: is like, you want the attention and you want something. When people stop buying your bullshit 

[01:19:07] Eldar: uhhuh, 

[01:19:08] Mike: you have to find new people. 

[01:19:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:10] Mike: So 

[01:19:11] Eldar: what I'm saying is that I'm not buying your bullshit.

[01:19:14] I don't care whether or not you, you live or die. Yeah. Let's just say, okay. But I'm there as like a sounding board. 

[01:19:22] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:19:23] Eldar: What effect does it has on you? Does it have a good effect or a bad effect? Because you don't have, you don't have to lie to me either way. You know, because I'm not your mom who you care about her opinion.

[01:19:34] You know, you don't wanna hurt her. You see that she's crying every time she sees you do something bad or whatever. You know, I'm not gonna cry or I'm not gonna celebrate, but I'm a human. 

[01:19:47] Toliy: Yeah. They still care about how you, uh, they 

[01:19:50] Eldar: still 

[01:19:50] Toliy: care. Of course, 

[01:19:52] Mike: of course. Only if the lie is on. Like, uh, if you never say like, Hey, I know you're lying to me.

[01:19:58] Like if it's known that you're not buying it, then 

[01:20:00] Eldar: no. But I, I am buying it 

[01:20:02] Mike: then. Then they'll continue. Yeah. 

[01:20:05] Eldar: It though has no effect. You're 

[01:20:06] Mike: saying they think it's, they think it's the prestige, bro. They think the magic trick is 

[01:20:10] Eldar: working. I don't, I don't, I'm not sure. I'm not sure because like. If the other individuals truly believes that, I don't have any kind of like give, I don't give a fuck and that that's the take I took with Ilio.

[01:20:20] You know what I mean? 

[01:20:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:22] Eldar: You know, obviously like in the beginning maybe I was like, oh, it's bad or whatever, but then after a while I was like, yo, he's a grown man. If he wants to do whatever he wants to do, it's up to him. You know? I even said bye to him. 

[01:20:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:20:30] Eldar: Because he was go going through so much shit, you know, that at some point I was like, I gotta detach myself completely from this.

[01:20:35] You know? We have also an experience with that as well. 

[01:20:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:20:38] Eldar: They're like, at this point, like, whatcha you gonna say? Like, you gonna lie to me? No. Let's just be honest. Let's have an honest conversation at that point. Right. There has to have some kind of a, a psychological switch where it's like, almost like a therapy switch, right.

[01:20:49] Where like to a therapist who has confidentiality and all these things that they're barred by that they can't say or whatever. Right. You could say anything to them technically, let's just say if they're trustworthy and they're actually good. 

[01:21:00] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:21:00] Eldar: You know, do you kind of expedite that process to say like, yo bro, like, you know what I mean?

[01:21:05] Toliy: No, you still, I think you still have reservations, just maybe less at times. 

[01:21:10] Eldar: That's what I'm saying. But that cannot expedite a little bit more. Um, yeah, 

[01:21:15] Mike: but they'll never, not, they, they're not gonna run outta people to tell they lie to who are gonna actually know. 

[01:21:20] Toliy: Well, that, and like, because you're not like a therapist, for example, to example, to, to Julius for example.

[01:21:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:26] Toliy: Right. Um, there, there's still that relationship of like, hey, like you guys are equals. 

[01:21:34] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:35] Toliy: Like, that is the internal feeling. 

[01:21:37] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:21:38] Toliy: It's not that like, hey, like one person's a retard. 

[01:21:42] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:42] Toliy: And the other person's like, like a,

[01:21:49] a very knowledgeable and high source of truth, for example. 

[01:21:52] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:21:53] Toliy: Right. Yeah. And someone that has their sh together. 

[01:21:55] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:21:55] Toliy: That, that's not how 

[01:21:57] Eldar: that's perceived. 

[01:21:58] Toliy: No. That's why. But 

[01:22:00] Eldar: that plays a factor, you're saying? 

[01:22:01] Toliy: Of course, that plays a factor in it because it's like. You guys are buddies. 

[01:22:06] Eldar: I am his buddy.

[01:22:07] Toliy: You're his buddy. You know, 

[01:22:09] Eldar: fuck. I am his 

[01:22:10] Toliy: buddy. 

[01:22:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:22:11] Toliy: Yeah. I don't think that like, uh, uh, Jesus had buddies, you know? 

[01:22:14] Eldar: Yeah. I love being his buddy though. 

[01:22:17] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:22:18] Eldar: To some degree. I do like being his buddy. 

[01:22:19] Toliy: Yeah, I know you do. Fuck. Yeah. Jesus had, uh, disciples, you know? 

[01:22:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:22:26] Toliy: He had, uh, to, to a certain degree, like, I dunno if you wanna call 'em followers or what, right?

[01:22:31] Mm-hmm. Like he, he had like, uh, 

[01:22:33] Eldar: yeah, 

[01:22:33] Toliy: he was revered. Like, he was like, you know, like, yeah. These people in hi history, who, whoever we want to talk about, right. 

[01:22:39] Eldar: Prophets in them. Yeah. 

[01:22:39] Toliy: Yeah. Like they were, 

[01:22:43] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:22:43] Toliy: Worshiped may, may, maybe not in always like the greatest of ways where you kind of give up your power or like stuff like that.

[01:22:49] But like, they were revered as like, wow, like 

[01:22:53] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:22:54] Toliy: These people are like, brilliant. 

[01:22:55] Eldar: And you think that that's a necessary, um, variable or factor for the other person to take it seriously. 

[01:23:02] Toliy: Um, it not 

[01:23:03] Eldar: like I have to wear a suit and tie. 

[01:23:05] Toliy: No, not, not like a suit and tie, but like for, for example, for, for myself, this doesn't always happen.

[01:23:10] Yeah. But it happens. Uh, and now it happens at a very, very high percentage. 

[01:23:14] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:23:15] Toliy: Um, when you say something, for example, to, to me, and I'm disagreeing with it 

[01:23:19] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:23:20] Toliy: Afterwards, my first always reaction's like, I couldn't have been right. Like that, that that's actually how I feel. Mm-hmm. Like, I have to go into it and I have to like, be like, okay, like.

[01:23:32] You definitely know a lot more than me. 

[01:23:34] Eldar: Yeah. But I could be wrong. I was wrong about the Connect four game because I didn't see on the side, and 

[01:23:38] Toliy: that's, that's very rare. 

[01:23:40] Eldar: I felt like shit. I was like, damn. You know, like I was a hundred percent saw the answer there and I was like, what are you guys doing?

[01:23:45] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:23:45] Eldar: But Mike's like, no, I actually looking at this side and I was like, oh shit. There's another side. So there's a potential that, you know, could, shit could get fucked 

[01:23:51] Toliy: up. Yeah. That's, but that's very rare, 

[01:23:53] Eldar: you know? But I get it. I do get it wrong. No, I definitely don't want you to be by default saying 

[01:23:56] Toliy: that 

[01:23:56] Eldar: I'm 

[01:23:56] Toliy: fucking No, no.

[01:23:57] My, my default thing is like, usually when you're very sure and adamant about things. 

[01:24:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:01] Toliy: And like, I, I'm disagreeing with you. I definitely right away of like, to me it's like an alarm. Like, it's like, whoa, like check this, check this, check that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's an alarm to figure out 

[01:24:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:12] Toliy: What, what's going on when we're on like different pages.

[01:24:16] Yeah. Like, I actually feel that, not like, but, but you are right. You know, 99% of the time, wow. You're, you're right. You know? Um, rarely do, do like. We disagree and like, I, I have it right. I usually return back to the, you know, realize I was wrong or mm-hmm. Tell you that like, hey, like, yeah, I didn't understand what you were saying, or like, yeah, I was feeling this way or that way, you know?

[01:24:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:40] Toliy: Um, 

[01:24:42] Eldar: but that's because, um, like but that's your kind of, that's you already, like that's you, you have like this subjective almost, uh, strategy almost on how, how you learn and how you perceive things or how you, the dynamic you 

[01:24:56] Toliy: have 

[01:24:56] Eldar: with 

[01:24:56] Toliy: me. I also have No, but I also a lot of rapport of like, you having things like Right.

[01:25:02] And you being right about a lot of things and you understanding a lot of, of, of, a lot of things. So like, I don't view you as my buddy, like in those, in those cases, I view you as someone that, that knows a lot more than I do. 

[01:25:15] Eldar: But you know what, I also, where I stand, I don't view anybody as my buddy either.

[01:25:21] Toliy: No, for sure. Sure. 

[01:25:22] Eldar: You know what I'm like for 

[01:25:23] Toliy: sure. 

[01:25:23] Eldar: To me, that's like 

[01:25:24] Toliy: a demeaning 

[01:25:25] Eldar: Yeah. That's, that's a demeaning thing. 

[01:25:26] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:25:26] Eldar: And like anytime, who, somebody who's, who uses it like that against me? 

[01:25:30] Toliy: I mean, we, we've always like, uh, 

[01:25:31] Eldar: yeah. Know, it's like, it's not an endearing thing. 

[01:25:34] Toliy: No. You know, you 

[01:25:35] Eldar: know what I mean?

[01:25:35] It's a disrespectful thing. 

[01:25:36] Toliy: Yeah. But also in 

[01:25:37] Eldar: society, nor nor do I ever want to have a kind of relationship where I view somebody as a buddy. Like, you know 

[01:25:43] Toliy: what I mean? No, for sure. I'm not, not, no, but I'm, uh, I'm just saying it from the sense of like, um, like there's a particular, like I have a particular understanding that on, on, on, on many, many, many subjects, especially like more serious ones, you know, A lot more than I do.

[01:26:02] Hmm. Like, I, I like, I think that, you know? 

[01:26:06] Julius: Mm-hmm. 

[01:26:06] Toliy: So in those cases where, um, if we're disagreeing on something or I'm not seeing what, what, what you're saying, um. Once, I may, may, maybe if, like, if, if it requires me to cool down a bit, like on the scenario, I always return back to be like, no, wait, wait, wait.

[01:26:23] Like could I have gotten this all wrong? Like, I, I, I definitely question mm-hmm. My whole take and my whole premise to begin with. And I wanna, um, I have a curiosity to find out, like, what, what happened and why, and like, like why do you, why, why do you feel that way? Or like mm-hmm. Why do you think that? Or like, um, like, like, you know, like EE um, like on all kinds of things, you know?

[01:26:44] Yeah. Like, even when I wanted that, like, uh, when I wanted like the, uh, car, you know, and then at first you said yes, kind of like, yeah, this is May maybe a good idea or something. Mm-hmm. And then you kind of said, no. And my first reaction's like, uh, like, why? You know, like, uh, yeah. 

[01:26:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:26:58] Toliy: Like, this sounds bad.

[01:26:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:00] Toliy: And then you kind of explained it, and then, and then I still like, yeah, but you know, this, this, like that. That's my first reaction. Then I cooled down and I'm like, all right. Yeah. Like, you know, if you're saying that you mm-hmm. You, you have a good reason as to why. And like, um. Like, like if I don't know why, then I can definitely go ask it.

[01:27:17] I'm sure you would, you know, tell on me. 

[01:27:19] Eldar: You have to explain to the listeners that that took a long, long, long time for you to be able to go from one thing to another and maybe blindly a little bit say, you know what, I, maybe I got this one wrong. Yeah. 'cause a lot of times you went and tested those theories.

[01:27:33] Toliy: Yes. But, but I think that, 

[01:27:34] Eldar: you know, 

[01:27:35] Toliy: that s like my, like that to me happened because like, I always wanted to find out why. 

[01:27:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:41] Toliy: That, that's how I felt for, for a long time. You were, you 

[01:27:43] Eldar: were curious enough about 

[01:27:44] Toliy: that. Yeah. Yeah. And that landed mean a lot of shit, obviously, because like when you're curious and you're out Yeah.

[01:27:49] I don't know. Outspoken, for example, on some things when you give your opinion 

[01:27:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:53] Toliy: Right. Then like, you could also be wrong about a lot of shit. 

[01:27:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:57] Toliy: So you're naturally going to like, look like a fool many times as well. Correct. 

[01:28:00] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:28:01] Toliy: You know, but I also think that, like, that um, that, that helped me built a lot of things as well.

[01:28:07] Eldar: 100% 

[01:28:08] Toliy: from, from that, 

[01:28:09] Eldar: you know? And I think that you have a lot of now insight because of that, you know? So don't just gimme me off my flowers. I think that you, you do a lot better in, in assessing the situations and calling things for what they are. Uh, some, a lot of times it's a lot faster and quicker when it comes to, I mean, even assessing people.

[01:28:27] Toliy: Yeah. So, yeah. So some, some, you know, some things. Yeah. So, but yeah. But my, my, um, I forget which, which point I was making to begin with, but Yeah. I feel like, um, you were 

[01:28:37] Eldar: saying that I, 99.9% times I'm right. 

[01:28:41] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like, yeah, no, I feel like of times you're right. No, no. We, we were talking about you saying No, I'm talking about the dynamic that therapist has to be therapist and the per person dynamic.

[01:28:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:28:50] Toliy: Yeah. You guys don't have that. You guys are both like, like, you know, well, like play ball together, grew up together. Yeah. Kind of like friends. Mm-hmm. 

[01:28:58] Eldar: Like 

[01:28:59] Toliy: for him. For him to put you in that kind of light of like, yo 

[01:29:03] Eldar: Oh, 

[01:29:03] Toliy: that's what 

[01:29:03] Eldar: we have to argue. 

[01:29:04] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. You have to argue there has to be a lot of argument and that Correct.

[01:29:07] The, the 

[01:29:07] Eldar: separation, 

[01:29:08] Toliy: the gap between you guys has, has to widen more and more. 

[01:29:11] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:29:11] Toliy: And that person has to see, see that for 

[01:29:13] Eldar: themselves. Yeah. 

[01:29:14] Toliy: But then 

[01:29:15] Eldar: yeah, 

[01:29:15] Toliy: but then there has to be a point where they eventually, they for maybe some time will not like you. 

[01:29:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:29:22] Toliy: Like they will view you as like poison 

[01:29:24] Eldar: for sure.

[01:29:24] Toliy: You know? 

[01:29:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:29:25] Toliy: But they eventually have to get to a point where they're actually curious to learn from you. 

[01:29:29] Eldar: And that's what I've told you, that the, the answer goes back to the fact that the soul knows deep inside, it still knows, and it returns to that truth when the time is right. 

[01:29:38] Toliy: I know, but there's a lot of fucked up souls, you know?

[01:29:41] Eldar: I agree. 

[01:29:42] Toliy: So 

[01:29:42] Eldar: there are a lot, a lot of them are, there's a lot of 

[01:29:44] Toliy: repairing that 

[01:29:45] Eldar: needs to happen, but I, I, I always believed on for the, on that return, you know, I believe in that, you know? Yeah. See, I, and that's why the door's always open. You know? 

[01:29:57] Toliy: Yeah. Like I, I, I don't know if Or you 

[01:29:58] Eldar: wanna to shut it and put 

[01:30:00] those 

[01:30:00] Toliy: people in?

[01:30:00] Hell no. No. I don't necessarily believe it that there has to be like, like, like I believe in like a return. I just believe in an opportunity for, 

[01:30:07] Eldar: to do better 

[01:30:08] Toliy: for change. 

[01:30:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:30:09] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Like 

[01:30:10] Eldar: I, 

[01:30:10] Toliy: I don't believe that there's gonna be a return, you know? Like I believe that like there is an opportunity out there.

[01:30:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:30:16] Toliy: And if you seize it 

[01:30:19] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:30:19] Toliy: You could repair your soul. Yeah. To then 

[01:30:21] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:30:21] Toliy: Your soul. To be in, in like a better place to find it, find its way home. 

[01:30:26] Eldar: That's right. 

[01:30:26] Toliy: You know? 

[01:30:27] Eldar: That's right. 

[01:30:27] Toliy: Um, but I also know that like, you're gonna get plenty of opportunities and you're probably not gonna take them because like, you could be an arrogant bastard.

[01:30:35] Eldar: Yeah. And that has to be shed for a long 

[01:30:38] Toliy: time, which is completely fine. 

[01:30:39] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, 

[01:30:42] Toliy: yeah. I feel like tho those who put themselves under the gun should be rewarded and they will be rewarded. 

[01:30:48] Eldar: So then you, so then you shouldn't even wish for that because you're saying that that's how it works. 

[01:30:53] Toliy: What 

[01:30:54] Eldar: that, when those who put themselves under the gun will be rewarded.

[01:30:58] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:30:59] Eldar: That's it. 

[01:31:00] Toliy: That's 

[01:31:00] the 

[01:31:00] Eldar: equation. 

[01:31:01] Toliy: Those Yeah. Those people put themselves in it. That just their willingness to be under the gun mm-hmm. Puts themselves, put the, puts themselves in those positions to guarantee themselves humility and curiosity. 

[01:31:13] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:31:14] Toliy: Guaranteed. 

[01:31:15] Eldar: And with that you get the, the gifts of life.

[01:31:17] Yeah. Virtuous life. 

[01:31:18] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:31:19] Eldar: What do you think, Mike? Do you think that, uh, ju me, me and Julius have to have the dynamic where he sees me as the teacher in order to get through to him. I have to get, to get it to that point. That's what totally saying. 

[01:31:30] Mike: No. I think, uh, 

[01:31:32] Eldar: yeah. I think it's 

[01:31:34] Mike: because 

[01:31:35] Eldar: it's inevitable.

[01:31:36] Mike: The gap where you guys actually are. Yeah. He doesn't know. 

[01:31:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:31:39] Mike: Because he doesn't know you. 

[01:31:40] Eldar: Yeah. He doesn't know me. 

[01:31:41] Mike: He doesn't know actually who you are, what you're about. 

[01:31:44] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:31:45] Mike: So he's comparing, oh, okay. Der has a house. I have a house. All has a car. I have a car. 

[01:31:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:31:49] Mike: But it's only because we're.

[01:31:53] When we compare ourselves to others 

[01:31:55] Eldar: judging book bys cover only. 

[01:31:57] Mike: Well, yeah. But like, uh, I mean, watching the show a lot and everybody says, oh, you deserve love. Yeah. I'm like, okay, 

[01:32:09] Eldar: how 

[01:32:09] Mike: so? What the fuck does that mean? 

[01:32:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:11] Mike: And what scale are you using to say this Deserve? 

[01:32:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:15] Mike: Okay. Like if we're doing it like a, if you wanna do it in a transactional way, like, 

[01:32:18] Eldar: yeah.

[01:32:20] Mike: All right. You want to buy this thing? 

[01:32:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:22] Mike: You, you have to give this money 

[01:32:24] Eldar: this much. Yeah. 

[01:32:24] Mike: This is an exchange. 

[01:32:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:26] Mike: The equation deserve love. 

[01:32:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:28] Mike: Is not the scale. You are using the wrong measuring tools. 

[01:32:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:32] Mike: It's not, oh, have a house. 

[01:32:33] Eldar: What is loss worth? What is, yeah. What is the price you paid 

[01:32:35] Mike: yet? You have, you have a house or you have a car, or you have a good career.

[01:32:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:39] Mike: That's irrelevant. That means nothing. 

[01:32:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:42] Mike: Where's your character? Where's your values? Where's your morals? 

[01:32:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:46] Mike: But nobody says like, oh yeah. So that's why. Like you always gonna play in that field of whichever field you're in, your sandbox. You're always gonna say, oh, I have these toys. 

[01:32:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:33:00] Mike: So this is the world that you live in.

[01:33:03] And you, because you live in that world, you think these are the things that are valuable in it. 

[01:33:09] Eldar: You only play by those rules. 

[01:33:10] Mike: Yeah. But you don't comprehend or understand that there's other tools out there 

[01:33:16] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:33:16] Mike: That are just outta the tools. It could be better, it could be worse, right? Mm-hmm. But in this case, let's just say, you know, better tools, if you wanna talk about love or 

[01:33:25] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[01:33:25] Mike: You know, quality of life, right? Peace. Yeah. So that's the thing. So yeah. On paper you guys look the same. We all look the same, right? 

[01:33:35] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:33:37] Mike: But that's because the measuring scale that's being used by the person mm-hmm. Is suited towards that person. Yeah. He's not saying like, you know, I mean, he's not saying like, you know what, I'm good.

[01:33:48] And you think that's a culprit? That's an excuse that, 

[01:33:52] Eldar: that's again, the wrong interpretation of the 

[01:33:54] Mike: world. Yeah. It's an excuse that just naturally gets built in. 

[01:33:57] Eldar: Hmm. 

[01:33:58] Toliy: But, but I feel 

[01:33:59] Mike: like because you, you, you don't know the importance of what's, you don't know what's important. Yeah. 

[01:34:07] Toliy: Yeah. That, that, 

[01:34:08] Mike: yeah.

[01:34:08] Toliy: That's all gonna say. I feel like, like there, there, there's just like that, that happens because, um, your, your judgment of things, your scale things is very plain and basic. 

[01:34:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:34:21] Toliy: It's not like, um, like refine. It's just like, oh, uh, I don't know. Let's just say you're 41. Julius is 41. I don't know. 

[01:34:29] Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:29] Toliy: You play basketball, he plays basketball.

[01:34:31] Yeah. He has a house. You have a house. You guys have like key things like that, that that person will think that they're way closer and way similar and mm-hmm. You guys are, are neck and neck kind, end of deal. 

[01:34:42] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:43] Toliy: But that's because they have such a plain way of looking at things. And I think in general, society has that very like, oh, you deserve, deserve this, or like, you should get this, or, because their scale is very plain and, and, and basic and and 

[01:34:56] Eldar: non-existent.

[01:34:56] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:34:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:34:57] Toliy: There's nothing their, their, their measurements. Yeah. That's very surface level and very, very basic. 

[01:35:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:35:04] Toliy: Mm-hmm. So when you, when you get, um, challenged by somebody, um, in a lot of cases, that person, again, they either feel like threatened or they feel like, like, yo, I know this guy's not saying that to, to me.

[01:35:18] Right. Or like that. Yeah. You know? 

[01:35:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:35:20] Toliy: Um, and, and I, and I think just in general as a whole, I, I, I was just li listening to this on like another podcast slash show where they were talking about like, uh, these were two like former. Athletes, like in their, they're in their like, uh, one one's like about 50 and the other's about like, almost, uh, 60.

[01:35:36] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:35:36] Toliy: And they had very rough upbringings growing up. And they, they were like, there was no thing of like, they never felt ever in their childhood. They, they were like above a particular job. 

[01:35:46] Eldar: Hmm. 

[01:35:46] Toliy: Or like above a particular chore. 

[01:35:48] Eldar: Humble, 

[01:35:48] Toliy: like they worked in the fields, you know, like they did like these like piece of shit jobs, like, I don't know, fast food in the fields.

[01:35:55] Like, you know, like 

[01:35:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:35:56] Toliy: These kinds of jobs where they were talking about how the present day person, the present day athlete or whoever is like being brought up. They think they're hot shit. 

[01:36:04] Eldar: Mm-hmm. And 

[01:36:04] Toliy: they're like, everyone thinks they're above these like. Things of like, you know, like eating shit or like 

[01:36:09] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:36:10] Toliy: Doing these things or like, 

[01:36:11] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:36:11] Toliy: Um, they, they were talking about like, yeah, like they had to work in like the, uh, chicken coop. 

[01:36:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:36:16] Toliy: Just pick up like a chicken shit and like, you know, like, yeah. Take care of thousands of chickens and like 

[01:36:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:36:21] Toliy: Do all this kind of stuff. And they were like, if, if our like, and their parents were the ones that were like running this like farm and thing.

[01:36:27] Mm-hmm. They were like, there was no point in their childhood. So they were where they were like, oh, like they're giving me a job. And I like, I'm like, I'm worthy of more. Mm. They were like, yo, if I gotta sign this, I gotta go fucking do it. 

[01:36:38] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:36:38] Toliy: Like, 

[01:36:39] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:36:39] Toliy: There was no like, if, if this is what the elder said, this is what I'm, I gotta do.

[01:36:43] Eldar: Yeah. That's it. 

[01:36:43] Toliy: And the modern day person growing up is like, 

[01:36:46] Eldar: not doing this, 

[01:36:46] Toliy: I'm not doing that. 

[01:36:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:36:48] Toliy: Or what? Clean up after myself. Fuck 

[01:36:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:36:51] Toliy: Wash the dishes or this take out the trash. Not doing that. 

[01:36:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:36:56] Toliy: Like where did those attitudes and those impressions develop? 

[01:36:59] Eldar: That's a good question. Yeah. 

[01:37:03] Mike: I also also think, uh, like if you see it in modern society, right?

[01:37:07] Like

[01:37:11] I guess people look up to people with money, right? Mm-hmm. If you hear a lot of Julius's stories, like, oh, my friend, this rich guy, he is got a boat. Yeah. He's got a Ferrari. He had that guy. 

[01:37:21] Yeah. 

[01:37:21] Mike: With his money, he bought Julius's respect. But it's not respect thing is because let's say Julius operates and that that's valuable to him.

[01:37:30] Mm-hmm. Or whoever it is, the person who has a lot of that, that money, because this is the world that he operates in. 

[01:37:37] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:37:38] Mike: He has bought his esteem, but 

[01:37:39] Eldar: yes, 

[01:37:40] Mike: it's fake. 

[01:37:41] Toliy: It's a temporary ad admiration, 

[01:37:43] Mike: it's temporary, it's not real. 

[01:37:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:37:45] Mike: And I think maybe, uh, that's, that's what, that's what's also happening.

[01:37:51] So if you were to come out here, you have like, so either you can. Have all this money and be flashy. Or you can buy him too, right? Like these Andrew Tate guys. Yeah. They buy people. 

[01:38:00] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:38:01] Mike: Like with their nonsense, they pay for their courses and 

[01:38:04] Eldar: yeah, 

[01:38:04] Mike: they live this lifestyle. They take 'em along, but 

[01:38:06] Eldar: yeah, 

[01:38:07] Mike: they sell out for example, right?

[01:38:08] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:38:09] Mike: So that's, that's like also part of it. So because they like, Hey, in this language, 

[01:38:13] Eldar: yeah, 

[01:38:14] Mike: we understand each other. You below me 'cause I have more. And that's it. That's it. And that's it. That's, 

[01:38:18] Eldar: you have to line up, 

[01:38:19] Mike: you have to line up to that. So the person will line up. Yeah. 

[01:38:21] Eldar: The person will 

[01:38:22] Mike: line up.

[01:38:22] 'cause that's what they value. 

[01:38:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:38:24] Mike: But I wonder with a therapist, is it, is it, is it the exchange of money? How does that play into the whole thing? 

[01:38:33] Eldar: That's what I'm saying, that the dynamic between a therapist and somebody who's asking for help or whatever is so interesting. You know what I'm saying? That like something happens about your mind, to your mind where you are seeking help.

[01:38:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:38:48] Eldar: And you put yourself in a very specific, vulnerable situation. Position. 

[01:38:52] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:38:53] Eldar: You know what I mean? In order to get something from the other person, you know, in this case acknowledge maybe, or insight. 

[01:39:00] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:00] Eldar: You know, for a therapist. 

[01:39:02] Toliy: Yeah. That, that, that's because you, you view them in that kind of light.

[01:39:06] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Right? 

[01:39:07] Mike: Because you are changing something that you value so much money because you put so much value on money because you give it to somebody, that transaction becomes valuable to you because you are trading something that's a huge, you don't asset to, you 

[01:39:19] Toliy: don't actually, I, I, I, I don't even 

[01:39:20] Mike: think it doesn't really become, but for that moment, maybe you pay attention.

[01:39:25] Toliy: No, but I don't even think that tho those people value like money. I, I feel like they value what they think will, will, like that money will do for them. 

[01:39:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:39:34] Toliy: Like, like, like they value the outcomes that will happen for. Being able to have that kind of money and using it, for example? 

[01:39:41] Mike: No, no. I'm saying in the therapist, react in the therapist relationship.

[01:39:44] Toliy: Oh. Oh. I thought 

[01:39:45] Mike: because there's an exchange of money, something that they value so much, they will pay attention. 

[01:39:50] Toliy: Oh, I, I 

[01:39:51] Mike: know that's my problem. I don't 

[01:39:52] Toliy: think it's that, 

[01:39:52] Mike: that's, that's my question. 

[01:39:53] Toliy: No, I, I, I, I thought you were talking about people in society who value, who put like a big emphasis on money.

[01:39:59] They will look up to pe to people, for example, who have a lot of money. 

[01:40:02] Mike: Mm. 

[01:40:03] Toliy: And then, um, but, but they're looking up to what they think the money will, will get them 

[01:40:08] Mike: actual, well, actual, well, yeah. People look up to them. Whatever they imagine will make them happy. Not the money, but the things that the money buys or the respect or the girls, or, 

[01:40:15] Toliy: yes.

[01:40:16] They just think the money will lead to the things that they've wanted in life 

[01:40:19] Mike: or self-esteem or confidence, 

[01:40:20] Toliy: whatever. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah. I just think to, to, to the therapist, like, yeah, they, uh, they steam that person in, in a particular light, and that's the only reason. 

[01:40:29] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:40:29] Toliy: That they can say what they say and open up in that kind of way.

[01:40:33] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:40:34] Toliy: You know? 

[01:40:35] Eldar: Yeah. Okay. 

[01:40:37] Toliy: Right, because like for example, like you said before that like that worked, for example, for Kat, right? Mm-hmm. Like she mm-hmm. She couldn't tell you particular things. 

[01:40:44] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:40:45] Toliy: That's because she viewed you a particular way, right? 

[01:40:47] Eldar: Correct. Yeah. 

[01:40:48] Toliy: Not because you were physically m missing information that could help her.

[01:40:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:40:52] Toliy: Like that wasn't the reality of it. 

[01:40:53] Eldar: Correct. I was 

[01:40:53] Toliy: there for her and then became another person. 

[01:40:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:40:55] Toliy: That was then viewed in a different light. 

[01:40:57] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:40:57] Toliy: That they could be saying the same things. 

[01:40:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:41:00] Toliy: But because you viewed them a particular way, I would say the 

[01:41:01] Eldar: saying lesser things, but 

[01:41:02] Toliy: Yeah. It was, but, but you know what I'm saying?

[01:41:04] We'll, yeah, they, they could be saying good things, you know, for you, but you'll, you'll like listen and progress with those things mm-hmm. Because you view that person in a different, uh, light, right. 

[01:41:15] Eldar: And Correct. That's because the key to that, I guess, transaction is there for whatever reason that is. 

[01:41:22] Toliy: Yes.

[01:41:22] Mm-hmm. 

[01:41:22] Eldar: And in this case, like you said, yeah, maybe there's some kind of a bias or whatever it is. Right. And I don't have that same key with Julius, let's just say 

[01:41:28] Toliy: No. But think about it with, with any, like a lot of, like, for example, and well, well, like. In general, a a a lot of people that, that like, um, you've challenged or for example, or for mm-hmm.

[01:41:43] Or for as, for help, many times, those people, um, in different moments will view you as the enemy. 

[01:41:51] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:41:54] Toliy: Why does that happen?

[01:41:58] Eldar: Because I'm a no-nonsense. Keith Peterson. You've 

[01:42:01] Toliy: been Keith Peterson. Yeah. 

[01:42:02] Eldar: No, because I think that, uh, um, I pay close attention to what's being said, and I have maybe this ability now to be able to question and attack the ego in a very personal way. 

[01:42:16] Toliy: Yeah. And, and again, when you're right over and over again, like for example, like I remember Dennis at least, for example.

[01:42:23] Eldar: Yeah, 

[01:42:24] Toliy: man, many times. Damn. You get, she gets 

[01:42:27] Eldar: a shout out twice today, 

[01:42:28] Toliy: guys. It, it was almost like, like. Hey, I'm mad that you actually write every time. 

[01:42:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:33] Toliy: So now like I need to cause like a scuffle. 

[01:42:35] Eldar: Yes. Because 

[01:42:36] Toliy: like you're actually a bad person for just being right. All the time. 

[01:42:40] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. You're right.

[01:42:42] Toliy: Like it, like if that happens and you don't have the right mindset, like you can grow resentment 

[01:42:47] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:42:47] Toliy: For it. 

[01:42:48] Eldar: Yeah. '

[01:42:48] Toliy: cause you have someone that's like rip paying close attention. 

[01:42:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:52] Toliy: Listening to what you're actually saying. 

[01:42:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:54] Toliy: Remembering everything and following up on it. 

[01:42:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:56] Toliy: And you're wrong over and over again.

[01:42:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:43:00] Toliy: Yeah. Like if you don't actually use those things that are, uh, brought up to actually change and see the benefit for that. Yes. You will be upset. You will then be if, if you don't do that 

[01:43:11] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:43:11] Toliy: You will be upset at that person. You have 

[01:43:13] Eldar: to be Yeah. You, you have no other choice. Correct. 

[01:43:15] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:43:17] Eldar: Yeah. You have no other choice.

[01:43:18] I agree.

[01:43:22] Yeah. 

[01:43:25] Toliy: Yeah. That, that, that's almost like those like scenarios where like, like the, uh. Dunno, one of like, the syn, like, like people are married or something and like someone wants to like divorce them and then like mm-hmm. They, they don't want to, and then you hear those crazy horror stories, like they, they killed that person and they killed themselves.

[01:43:40] Mm-hmm. So like, they couldn't dread like 

[01:43:41] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:43:42] Toliy: Like they were in such pain from what happened. 

[01:43:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:43:44] Toliy: That like, this is what they did. 

[01:43:45] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:43:47] Toliy: Why is that happened? You know? 

[01:43:49] Eldar: No, you're right. Yeah. Oh, the buildup. 

[01:43:52] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:43:55] Eldar: Okay. So did we figure it out? Awareness? That was my question. 

[01:44:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:44:05] Eldar: I still think the burden is on me because I was summoned to talk about this to try to help, you know?

[01:44:12] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:44:12] Eldar: And therefore I have to, I have to hold a line. And the line is that argument mm-hmm. Of continuation, of finding what's the most important thing to talk about. Where do we disagree? And I'm gonna stand that line where I disagree here and you disagree over there. And like totally said, give it time.

[01:44:29] We'll come back. 

[01:44:30] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:44:31] Eldar: Then we'll keep, we'll keep rehashing it. We'll keep checking notes. We'll keep 

[01:44:35] Toliy: until they say Yeah. 

[01:44:36] Eldar: Until they say I surrender. 

[01:44:37] Toliy: No. Or they say, 

[01:44:38] Eldar: say 

[01:44:39] Toliy: I don't want it 

[01:44:39] Eldar: or I'm banned. 

[01:44:40] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:44:40] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:44:41] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:44:43] Eldar: And I feel good about that. That's what I'm saying, that I want come out of this shit too.

[01:44:46] Like where it's like it's clarity. 

[01:44:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:44:49] Eldar: And I like clarity. 

[01:44:50] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:44:50] Eldar: You know what I mean? I don't want to be in this like in between fucking bushes and dancing around the fucking fire. Well shut out Nate. You know what I mean? 

[01:44:57] Harris: Because I, my breaking, breaking point, boy

[01:45:03] hot, 

[01:45:03] Eldar: you know, um, be doing kumbaya around shit. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Let's get to the point. You know, and a lot of times those points, yeah. They were fiery, they were big explosions and stuff like that. Yeah. And if a person doesn't change, they're gonna resent you and stuff like that. And Yeah.

[01:45:20] Sooner or later something's gonna give. Which is good. Yeah. Which is very good because then you know where everyone stands. 

[01:45:28] Yeah. 

[01:45:28] Mike: You 

[01:45:28] Eldar: know, and life is long enough and it's good in that way because you get to see the progression of it all Time always tells, you know? Yeah, 

[01:45:40] Mike: yeah. 

[01:45:40] Eldar: So we can use the, okay, we'll see where this lands or what happens, you know?

[01:45:43] Mm-hmm. Um, and then you could definitely see which theories played out, which, where, where you were, right, where you were wrong. Um, and it's clear.

[01:45:56] So that's what that is. That's, I think that's where the power is. Stand your ground on your awareness. Continue on on those points, and that's it. You'll have more meaningful conversations than you now. I'm not gonna feel like a fucking buddy. 

[01:46:07] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:46:08] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[01:46:09] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:46:10] Eldar: Because that's what it is. The dynamic is exactly what it is.

[01:46:13] I'm a fucking buddy. 

[01:46:14] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:46:16] Eldar: You know? Oh, fuck what fuck he thinks he is. You know, he's probably listening right now. 

[01:46:26] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:46:26] Eldar: Fuck body. Pal, 

[01:46:29] Mike: but that's the world that he operates in. So 

[01:46:31] Eldar: no, bro, the most people operate in this world. 

[01:46:33] Mike: Yeah. Most people. Yeah. 

[01:46:34] Eldar: That's for sure. Most people fucking see this, right? 

[01:46:36] Mike: Yeah.

[01:46:36] Eldar: They are so fucking oblivious and they're so emotionally or intelligently fucking, uh, poor. 

[01:46:45] Mike: Yes. 

[01:46:45] Eldar: That they don't have no abilities or understandings that each word what it means and how it lands and where it's going. Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[01:46:52] Toliy: That's why that, that's why again, in society they need enough people to prop somebody up.

[01:46:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:46:59] Toliy: To be above you. And only then do you for pockets of times, listen. Listen. Right. And then sometimes you even do it in an oblivious way. 

[01:47:08] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:47:09] Toliy: Like, you know, I told you I watched this, you know, this guy, uh, clavicular. 

[01:47:12] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:47:12] Toliy: You know, at times, and when he walks through the streets, I would say is if he is in popular areas 

[01:47:19] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[01:47:20] Toliy: Every 30 seconds or less, someone asks to take a picture with him. Okay. Now there's an effect. I see. That happens. 

[01:47:27] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:47:28] Toliy: Because I also see what the other, other people like, you could see other people in the background. 

[01:47:32] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:47:33] Toliy: They're, they're watching other people come up to someone to take pictures with them.

[01:47:36] So 

[01:47:36] Eldar: they're like, oh, this is a celebrity. 

[01:47:37] Toliy: This is, but, but there's a lot of people 

[01:47:39] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:47:39] Toliy: That have no idea who he is. Who he is. Well, obviously they see enough people coming up to take a picture, 

[01:47:43] Eldar: so they want to 

[01:47:44] Toliy: take a picture and what do they do? They 

[01:47:45] Eldar: take a picture. Yeah. 

[01:47:45] Toliy: They go up and say, Hey, I don't know who you are, but can I have a picture?

[01:47:49] Eldar: They even say that. 

[01:47:50] Toliy: They say this like, oh my 

[01:47:51] Eldar: God. 

[01:47:52] Toliy: And I'm like, no fucking way. You know, 

[01:47:54] Eldar: that's sick. That's sick. 

[01:47:55] Toliy: You know? Yeah. Like if we saw, I don't know, let's just say we saw, I don't know, Michael Jordan. We probably want a picture Right. Or something or like that. Yeah. 

[01:48:01] Eldar: But 

[01:48:01] Toliy: we know who he is. 

[01:48:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:48:02] Toliy: But imagine you see someone that, a bunch of people taking a pictures and you actually don't know who it is, and you still want that picture.

[01:48:09] Eldar: That's crazy. 

[01:48:09] Toliy: What does that say about you? 

[01:48:10] Eldar: That, that's crazy shit, bro. You're a huge loser. Bras bad. Wow. Wow. They actually say that out loud. 

[01:48:17] Toliy: Yeah. Some, some people do. 

[01:48:20] Eldar: I just wanna be part of this thing. 

[01:48:21] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:48:22] Eldar: Because everybody's, do they get the same buzz? Like if I met Michael Jordan, I'm like, wow. My hero, basketball hero.

[01:48:30] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:48:30] Eldar: Right. I got this crazy buzz, but then I got a kid who never saw Michael Jordan doesn't know who he is, but he still wants to take a picture of him because he, he understands the clout, I guess. 

[01:48:39] Toliy: No, but 

[01:48:39] Eldar: that's Does he gets the 

[01:48:40] Toliy: same 

[01:48:40] Eldar: buzz. 

[01:48:40] Toliy: No, but that, like, that's a different scenario. Like, if he didn't really like, like, like EE even me, like 

[01:48:47] Eldar: Uhhuh, 

[01:48:47] Toliy: I didn't really watch Michael Jordan.

[01:48:48] Like, you, you did. You know, I'm more observed like, you know, probably as closely as you like, like someone like a, like, um, Steph Curry or like a Clay Thompson, right. Yeah. Like shooters who were like good. Mm-hmm. And I watched their whole career. 

[01:49:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:49:00] Toliy: Like, play out Jordan and I like kind of was on the back end for mm-hmm.

[01:49:03] For me growing up, you know? Yeah. But, um, like I'd still know of, obviously of Jordan and, and like Yeah. 

[01:49:10] Eldar: No, but if you didn't know if 

[01:49:10] Toliy: saying if I didn't know at all, 

[01:49:11] Eldar: but you see me like buzzing about him and taking a picture. But you know, the celebrity effect, 

[01:49:15] Toliy: if you're a huge lose loser, yes. 

[01:49:17] Eldar: You would still find that 

[01:49:19] Toliy: you, that buzz.

[01:49:19] These people are like, yo, everyone's taking pictures of him. I gotta go get. That's crazy. And, and plenty of people say this out loud, they're like, Hey, I don't know who you are, but can I take a picture? But can I take a 

[01:49:28] Eldar: picture? Yeah. Sick. 

[01:49:29] Toliy: Right? 

[01:49:30] Eldar: That's sick. Yeah. You could just manufacture all this shit. You know what I mean?

[01:49:33] Like, you could just, you didn't just do it in a social experiment. Yeah, yeah, 

[01:49:35] Toliy: yeah. 

[01:49:35] Eldar: Not be will come up. Yeah, 

[01:49:37] Toliy: yeah, yeah. 

[01:49:38] Eldar: You could just get somebody to go viral just off that. But you, you don't know who that is. Are you kidding me? You missing out? 

[01:49:44] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:49:45] Eldar: Oh, I don't wanna miss out. Mm-hmm. Lemme take a picture too.

[01:49:47] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:49:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:49:49] Toliy: Which, which is a crazy thing. Again, 

[01:49:51] Eldar: it is crazy 

[01:49:52] Toliy: social currency. Yeah. And, and I've watched this observe, like, I, I, I observe this. I see everyone around there, like, like they start pointing. 

[01:49:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:49:58] Toliy: And like, he walks around with the security guard. 

[01:50:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:50:01] Toliy: So he already has a security guard that's already something of importance, right?

[01:50:04] Yeah. If you have a security guard, 

[01:50:04] Eldar: guard, which is shorter than him, which I saw, which is like, what the fuck? 

[01:50:07] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he, he's big, but Yeah, 

[01:50:09] Eldar: he's short. 

[01:50:11] Toliy: Yeah. But 

[01:50:12] Eldar: he's shorter than him. 

[01:50:13] Toliy: Yeah. But, but, but he's bigger obviously. 

[01:50:15] Eldar: Fine. 

[01:50:15] Toliy: You know? Um, and more intimidating, you know? Mm-hmm. And he also then has a cameraman.

[01:50:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:50:22] Toliy: Videotaping constantly. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So when someone sees, Hey, security person, camera man, plus people taking pictures with this person, this 

[01:50:28] Eldar: means something 

[01:50:29] Toliy: to, so that, that's what I'm, but my, my, my main point is that people who were heard in society 

[01:50:34] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:50:35] Toliy: They were only heard because they were propped up by enough people.

[01:50:38] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:50:39] Toliy: Enough people raised them above the above themselves. Yes. And above others. 

[01:50:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:50:43] Toliy: Only then you could pay attention. Now, that's why Yeah. People pay attention to someone like be Jesus or Martha Luther King, or Gandhi, or 

[01:50:50] Eldar: Yeah, 

[01:50:51] Toliy: whoever. 

[01:50:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:50:52] Toliy: Right. And in, in society. But yeah, like the fuck's gonna listen to a buddy, you know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:51:04] That, that's why it's also like amongst like, in a lot of friend groups and I'm like in that kind of like, uh, dynamic. 

[01:51:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:51:09] Toliy: There's a lot of ego there because it's like, yo, we're the same. You're telling me what to do, or you tell me I'm wrong. Like, who, who do you think you are? 

[01:51:16] Eldar: This is true. No, I agree. I agree with that.

[01:51:17] You know. I agree with that. 

[01:51:19] Toliy: And then they have to start comparing the plain things. They know I got more money than you. 

[01:51:22] Eldar: Yeah. I gotta start call, what's his name? Dave Bag. Take my rolox back. Right. So people start taking me more seriously. Damnit that ship sailed, 

[01:51:32] Toliy: you know? 

[01:51:34] Eldar: Alright. So what are any, anything else?

[01:51:37] Mike: No, 

[01:51:37] Eldar: I think we pretty did pretty good with this one. 

[01:51:39] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:51:40] Eldar: You know, I mean, it gives me, gave me clarity again. Yeah. Which I knew, which I, I already thought about it 'cause I didn't feel so good about it. 

[01:51:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:46] Eldar: But it was good that we talked about it more. 

[01:51:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:51:51] Eldar: Yeah. So, Mike, what are your final thoughts on the subject matter?

[01:51:55] Mike: No, no final thoughts. 

[01:51:56] Eldar: No final thoughts. You got it. Totally. Your final thoughts on awareness. 

[01:52:02] Toliy: On awareness. 

[01:52:04] Eldar: Yeah. And how much of it is needed in order to take the plunge of action 

[01:52:11] Toliy: for others? Uh, listening. 

[01:52:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:14] Toliy: Uh, I don't know. 

[01:52:15] Eldar: You don't know? That's, that's I, that's pretty honest 

[01:52:18] Toliy: because Yeah. I don't know how much awareness they're gonna need because I think it depends on how, like full of themselves and how arrogant 

[01:52:26] Eldar: they are.

[01:52:27] Toliy: They are 

[01:52:27] Eldar: you. It's case 

[01:52:27] Toliy: by case. And I feel like in Julius's case, the person who's always been talked about as someone that knows every, like everything, everything about everything. 

[01:52:35] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:52:39] Toliy: I don't think it's this lifetime. 

[01:52:41] Eldar: Oh, shit. 

[01:52:44] Toliy: Because it's tough if, if you know so much. 

[01:52:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:47] Toliy: And you talk about every subject. 

[01:52:49] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:52:52] Toliy: I think how are you gonna listen to anything how 

[01:52:57] Eldar: you did come across us? That's a wall's gonna be hard to jump over. You have to hide. 

[01:53:04] Toliy: Yeah. You gotta go hang out with Uncle Ron.

[01:53:06] Eldar: Mm-hmm.

[01:53:11] Yeah. I wonder if he reaches out. 

[01:53:13] Toliy: It, it, I think it's easy to hide from your buddies. 

[01:53:16] Mike: It's gonna take time, but nobody said it has to be this lifetime or next lifetime. It's all just a continuation. 

[01:53:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:53:23] Mike: So allegedly. But the Ripples could be, well, ripples could be in a hundred years and 10 lifetimes. Who knows?

[01:53:32] Mm-hmm. Soul doesn't forget, you know, allegedly, 

[01:53:38] Toliy: you saw that Eddie, Eddie Murphy movie or no? Which one 

[01:53:41] Eldar: Come to America? 

[01:53:42] Toliy: No. The one where, uh, he gets like transfused with like a tree. 

[01:53:47] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:53:48] Mike: A thousand words. 

[01:53:49] Toliy: Yeah. Like, oh yeah. He can only talk a limited amount. 

[01:53:51] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

[01:53:53] Toliy: Every time he talks, he starts to die.

[01:53:54] Like he dies. 

[01:53:55] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do remember that. Yeah. You 

[01:53:57] Toliy: better say 

[01:53:57] Eldar: meaningful shit. It was a good movie. Yeah. That was a good movie, 

[01:54:01] Toliy: you know? 

[01:54:01] Eldar: Yeah. Alright guys, well thank you. This was great as always. 

[01:54:05] Mm-hmm.