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"We give everything away to someone else, somewhere else... and our dreams stay unfulfilled."

Why is it so easy to spend four hours scrolling on your phone but so hard to spend twenty minutes on your own goals? In this episode, Eldar, Mike, and Katherine break down the attention economy and why we’ve allowed our most valuable resource to become so "cheap." We dive deep into the trap of digital consumption and the psychological difference between big goal visualization and the power of small daily wins.

We also explore the controversial side of self-improvement—from the "false empowerment" of psychedelics and Ayahuasca to the gritty reality of one day at a time sobriety and focus. If you’ve been feeling like a passenger in your own life, this episode is your roadmap to taking back the wheel through mental focus and intentional living.

Key Takeaways:

• The Attention Drain: Why we consume content to avoid the discomfort of our own unfulfilled potential.
• Visualization vs. Action: Why focusing on the "huge goal" often leads to burnout, and why you should visualize small wins instead.
• The Ayahuasca Trap: A critical look at why "tripping" might actually be the opposite of true empowerment.
• The Contrast of Growth: How listening back to your old self (and your old mental health journey) provides the ultimate data for change.

The Most Insightful Moment:

"What you need to draw energy from is the small wins. I want to visualize that tomorrow, I’m gonna make a better choice for myself... one day at a time." — Mike

Listen now and start reclaiming your focus today.
If this episode woke something up in you, drop a 5-star review, share it with someone stuck in the scroll, and subscribe for more unfiltered talks on personal growth and self empowerment. New episodes drop weekly — don’t miss the next one.

 By the end of this conversation, we realize that the biggest threat to your success isn't your lack of talent or money—it's the thing sitting in your pocket right now. But what happens when you turn it off and realize you don't actually know who you are without the noise?

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form  - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Transcript

[00:00:00] Dennis: On this week's episode, 

[00:00:01] Eldar: what ends up happening a lot of the times is that, that we just consume, consume, consume all the time, is given to something else, to someone else, to somewhere else. And then, uh, none of our dreams are ever get fulfilled. 

[00:00:13] Mike: The problem with the visualization, the focus on the end on a huge, big goal, but what you need to draw energy from is the small wins.

[00:00:19] I wanna visualize it tomorrow, I'm gonna make better choice for myself. I'm gonna eat cleaner. One day at a time. 

[00:00:25] Eldar: I think he's experienced with Ayahuasca or any other stuff. 

[00:00:27] Mike: He'll look back at it and say, it's one of the worst things he ever did to himself. 

[00:00:31] Katherine: Mm. You think so? 

[00:00:31] Mike: When you come out on the other side and you understand what true empowerment is, 

[00:00:34] Eldar: yes.

[00:00:35] You realize what true empowerment is not.

[00:00:43] All right, guys. Tonight's episode, we're gonna talk about a couple different topics, but we'll start with our attention and why is it so cheap, right? Yeah. Uh, I say, why is it so cheap? Is because, um, obviously, you know, everyone in this room and many other rooms, everyone has a phone. And one big influence that we have is obviously the social media that is constantly influence us in, uh, one way or the other.

[00:01:12] We are constantly consuming stuff, constantly giving away our attention, our time to, let's just say some other creators or whoever it is that's creating or, uh, pedaling their information. All right? Totally. 

[00:01:26] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:01:27] Eldar: Uh, obviously that's a big problem because, uh, as humans, I think that naturally we, number one, I think we're special individually, we all have the ability to create, be creative, be imaginative, um, but unfortunately, a lot of times we're consuming other people's stuff, you know, and we put other people on the pedestal.

[00:01:54] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:54] Eldar: We forget about ourselves and we don't actually create, so what, what's end up, what ends up happening a lot of the times is that, that we just consume, consume, consume the time of the day, all the time is given to something else, to someone else, to somewhere else. And then, uh, none of our dreams are ever get fulfilled because obviously as humans, right?

[00:02:16] We also are dreamers. We have our own dreams, we have our own ambitions and things we want to do with our, with our time, with ourselves. But a lot, most of that time is being given away to someone else's creations. Why is that a phenomenon? Why does that keep happening and what should we do about it?

[00:02:36] Totally. 

[00:02:37] Toliy: Yeah. So I think that there's, um, several, several factors and so several things are happening. Um, that contribute towards this. 

[00:02:45] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:46] Toliy: Um, so one of them is that, uh, like let, let's, I think like first define it of, uh, as to what, what we mean by this, like consuming or building. 

[00:02:54] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:54] Toliy: Right? 

[00:02:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:02:55] Toliy: So, um, before we consume or build, like we're, we're just beings who are alive, right?

[00:03:04] And I think that, um, we have like a, uh, an unconscious like magnet towards maybe figuring out who we are, what our purpose is. Mm-hmm. What, what do we do? Like, you know, like, um, just in general, like what, what's the point of all this? Like, what, what are we supposed to do? What are we supposed to believe or not believe?

[00:03:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:03:24] Toliy: You know, like that just like, is like a gravitational pull. I think that it's happening without choice. 

[00:03:30] Eldar: Naturally. 

[00:03:30] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Naturally. Um, and I would say that, um, when you're first consuming content, a part like from like a young age, obviously a part of you is always trying to figure out and make sense of things as to what's real, what's not real, you know, what's this, what's that?

[00:03:49] You know, and you're making conclusions and you're, you know, living life like, like that. Mm-hmm. Um, and the thing with this content is that, um, one, when we're consuming it, it's almost like. Like, you know how like they have like, like this is rated G mm-hmm. This is rated pg, this is rated, you know, RX, whatever it is, 

[00:04:11] Eldar: right?

[00:04:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:04:12] Toliy: And I feel like the things that are rated, like g pg, pg 13, they, they should be rated R 

[00:04:19] Eldar: mm. 

[00:04:20] Toliy: You know, or even higher. Mm-hmm. You know, because I think oftentimes, um, people are consuming, um, even something as like, you know, simple that's just like very commonly, um, done like in, in all countries.

[00:04:35] But I just talk about like America, right. Sports, you know, what's wrong with watching a ball game? 

[00:04:40] DJ: Mm-hmm. And 

[00:04:41] Toliy: what's wrong with watching some basketball? What's wrong with watching some football? 

[00:04:44] DJ: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:45] Toliy: You know, you have local teams, you have like, you know, people root for di different teams, but what they don't realize is that what they're not consuming is not a basketball game game.

[00:04:56] They're, they're consuming a way of life. They're consuming a life philosophy. They're consuming ways of doing things, you know? 

[00:05:05] Eldar: Yeah. Somebody else's, 

[00:05:06] Toliy: somebody else's, right. But they don't realize that. They just feel like, like, what are you talking about? We're, we're watching the Knicks and the Nets play.

[00:05:14] Mm-hmm. You know? 

[00:05:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:15] Toliy: But no, what you are actually doing is you're consuming ideologies and ways of doing things and ways of thinking and ways of acting. Things that are okay and not okay. And you're doing that because that one basketball game branches into, uh, political topics. It branches into like race.

[00:05:33] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:05:33] Toliy: It branches into religion. 

[00:05:35] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:05:36] Toliy: It branches into like accessories, uh, you know, products, speakers, products. 

[00:05:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:40] Toliy: It branches into technology. It branches into, yeah. Like ev ev everything that you can think of that you know, is, is just in life. It branches to everything. 

[00:05:50] Eldar: Next thing you know, your whole identity is formed around 

[00:05:53] Toliy: that.

[00:05:53] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:05:54] Toliy: Yes. Next, next thing, you know, that innocent game of, um, of pig skin that you're watching, you know? 

[00:05:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:00] Toliy: You're actually the pig that's being, you know, stuffed up by all this stuff. 

[00:06:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:04] Toliy: And you don't even realize it. 

[00:06:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:06] Toliy: So, um, but it's, it's very nonchalant. Oh, like, yeah, I'm gonna watch, I'm, I'm gonna follow this sport, I'm gonna follow that, I'm gonna follow this.

[00:06:13] Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:14] Toliy: But you're actually completely like, rewiring or, or just wiring if, if you're very young, right? Yeah. Like how you live life, how you go about things, what you like, what you don't like, what's okay, what's not okay. 

[00:06:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:26] Toliy: Because you're gonna naturally, um, idolize people who are like successful.

[00:06:32] You're gonna naturally look up to people who are successful within those things. You're gonna naturally root for maybe a particular team or city or area. You're naturally gonna not like a particular person in city, in area. Um, those are all byproducts of what happens. 

[00:06:47] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:48] Toliy: Um, and next thing that you know.

[00:06:50] This identity that you were trying to find or you're trying to figure out, you know, what's right and what's not right? Well, you had no, you had no choice in the matter. Mm. Because you've just consumed, you've already downloaded all the pre-written information that Yes, ma'am. Um, tell us you how to think, why to think and what to say.

[00:07:06] So what to 

[00:07:06] Eldar: buy. 

[00:07:06] Toliy: Yeah. What to buy, when to buy, how to think, what not to say, to say. 

[00:07:09] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:10] Toliy: So, um, now you're no longer in the stage of like, I'm trying to figure it out. You're just already committed to like a clan, you know? 

[00:07:19] Eldar: Yeah. You're part of it, 

[00:07:20] Toliy: you're part of it, 

[00:07:20] Eldar: part of 

[00:07:21] Toliy: a gang, and you have no Yeah. And you have no, no choice anymore.

[00:07:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:24] Toliy: Um, so to, to me, that happens in, in your life, like in like major ways from like a, a young age. And then I think as you get older and you adopt, I don't know, a new show, a new sport, like a new activity, I think it, um, it's, it's definitely a little bit of like a slower influence when, when you're older in comparison to when you're younger.

[00:07:45] But, um, it's still happens. And then like, if you don't catch it, well, next thing that, you know, not only is your life consumed time-wise with consuming all of this type of content mm-hmm. And doing all of these things, but, um, your philosophies and your ways of living and how you go about things also completely change.

[00:08:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:06] Toliy: Um, and then your, your focus on building, or focus on like doing something for, for yourself is nowhere near a priority anymore. It's just a, um, a. Yeah. That you're, you're just mainly a consumer of, of content basically. 

[00:08:26] Eldar: You have boxing on Friday night. Yeah. You have Saturday night football, Monday night raw.

[00:08:30] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:08:30] Eldar: And then tennis on Thursday. 

[00:08:32] Toliy: Yeah. That, and then like all your conversations then, then before you know it, like you also hang around like, you know, I guess like somewhat like-minded or maybe somewhat people who like similar things to you. 

[00:08:42] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Well, 

[00:08:43] Toliy: now you're also hanging out with people who like those things too.

[00:08:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:46] Toliy: Whether it's shows, mo movies, actors, whatever, it's celebrities, very materialistic people, very non materialistic people, very religious people, very non-religious people. And you just basically have pretty much one way of thinking in whatever that you go into, whether it's the religion, the movies, the sports, whatever it is.

[00:09:06] Um, 

[00:09:07] Eldar: sure. 

[00:09:07] Toliy: Individual and 

[00:09:07] Eldar: individuality becomes out the window. 

[00:09:09] Toliy: Yeah. Your individuality is gone and you no longer, um, you, you, you're no longer in a position where you're trying to figure out from what's right or wrong. You've already absorbed the content of what's right or wrong and you don't even know it yet.

[00:09:22] So whatever those beliefs are, they've already been ingrained in you and you no longer have any kind of like explorative choice to figure out what's right or wrong or what to do or what not to do. So you no longer have, I think, like any kind of free will unless you have like a catastrophic like life, um, um, incident or something where maybe you get some like thinking or retrospective like.

[00:09:47] Eldar: And you started on subscribing slowly. 

[00:09:49] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:09:49] Eldar: Tell me how, how you got this ick, because it's a recent phenomenon for you, right? Yeah. Because you obviously, as everybody knows it, everybody was listening to the show, know that you're a big sports fan Yeah. Of a lot of sports. 

[00:10:00] Toliy: Yeah. I'm definitely a, a, a, uh, sports fan of a lot of sports.

[00:10:03] I have interest in like, you know, UFC, boxing, football, you know, tennis, tennis, basketball, baseball, hockey. I like everything else. 

[00:10:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:12] Toliy: I've always grown up on sports and I've always liked it. 

[00:10:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:15] Toliy: You know, um, 

[00:10:18] Eldar: you had 

[00:10:18] Toliy: enough and that's just 1, 1 1 example. Yeah. Because it's like one, there's like so much news, so much.

[00:10:25] Um, like if, if, if you think about it, some of the largest just influencers of, of let's say like, um, of life and just like how things go are, for example, like news networks, let's just say. 

[00:10:39] DJ: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:39] Toliy: Including sports news networks, let's say like ES, espn. 

[00:10:43] DJ: Yeah. 

[00:10:43] Toliy: Right. Who also have their hands politically in a bunch of things and you know, do doing that, but they've basically just built empires on telling you what's going on in those things.

[00:10:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:53] Toliy: Think about that. 

[00:10:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:54] Toliy: Like the people who are, are just telling you what's going on. They're not actually playing the sports. They're not actually, yeah. They're, they're just, they got 

[00:11:00] Eldar: hot 

[00:11:00] Toliy: takes and they have a billion, multi-billion dollar 

[00:11:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:05] Toliy: Industries based on just letting you know what's going on with someone else.

[00:11:08] Eldar: Yeah. That's sick if you put, when you put it that way. 

[00:11:11] Toliy: Yeah. So before you know it, these people now get influence on who runs for office, who gets into, you know, positions here. 

[00:11:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:20] Toliy: Who, who's gonna be on your television when you turn it on? Who's gonna be in the car when you turn on the radio? 

[00:11:26] Eldar: Who's gonna give the speeches during the presidential debates?

[00:11:29] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:11:30] Eldar: Or campaigns. 

[00:11:31] Toliy: Yeah, 

[00:11:32] Eldar: yeah, 

[00:11:33] Toliy: yeah. Which actually have, 

[00:11:34] Eldar: this is like a phenomenon now though. Now you see Megan, thee stallion is twerking for Kamala, and then you have Dana White giving for Trump, Dana White speech for, for Trump. Trump. Trump. Right. This is this because they have so, so much poll, they have so many people 

[00:11:47] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:11:47] Eldar: That if you watch Dana White's, UFC, you probably fuck with Trump and you know, shit like that, you know? Yeah. 

[00:11:52] Toliy: And now Connect, it's a, uh, political, like war to, um, they, they already know. And again, like a lot of the election that Trump won was again, around people that had poll and the, and getting and, and doing well with the younger demographic going, getting in front the Ross podcast and the Nel Boys and this and that.

[00:12:10] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:12:10] Toliy: And before you know it, people that, like if you survey those people to see what the policies are, that the person that they're voting for is going to go into office. 

[00:12:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:12:19] Toliy: Um, I, I would bet anything that less than 1% of them would be able to tell you if it was just a blind test. Like, what, what's what the average person doesn't know.

[00:12:28] Eldar: Doesn't know. Yeah. 

[00:12:29] Toliy: They just say, oh, I fuck with Trump. Yeah. I don't like Trump. 

[00:12:31] Eldar: Yeah. You 

[00:12:32] Toliy: know? Yeah. They don't have actual, like, real reasons as to why. Yeah. So. Before you know it, they knew that, hey, we're gonna fi figure out what people like, people like sports people like UFC for example. We're gonna become best friends with the person that runs the UFC.

[00:12:49] We're gonna do a couple of favors there. Bring in a couple of fighters that can't get visas 

[00:12:53] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:12:53] Toliy: In the United States. 

[00:12:54] Eldar: It's happening right now. 

[00:12:55] Toliy: Happening right now. You know? Yeah. All of a sudden, this person's president, now these fighters can come into the country, 

[00:13:02] Eldar: jump over the laws, 

[00:13:03] Toliy: jump over laws, no problem.

[00:13:06] Why? Because they help them get in. 

[00:13:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:08] Toliy: You know, so they're tapping into the interest that you have and they're tapping into the things that captivate your attention. 'cause they realize, I think that no one actually cares. Like the mass public doesn't care about, uh, climate change or like 

[00:13:23] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:13:24] Toliy: You know, like, I dunno.

[00:13:25] It was some, some, some laws around certain financial things or something. The average person cares about whatever entertainment that they're hooked on and consuming. Mm-hmm. And they tap into that. 

[00:13:36] Eldar: Oh, gas prices. 

[00:13:36] Toliy: Yeah. They don't have to tell you about any kind of policies. Right. 

[00:13:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:41] Toliy: They're just gonna tap into your entertainment channels.

[00:13:43] Eldar: Yep. 

[00:13:44] Toliy: Get the people who you respect and like to co-sign you. 

[00:13:47] Eldar: Yep. 

[00:13:47] Toliy: And now you have their, their signature as well. So, 

[00:13:52] Eldar: so are you on subscribing? 

[00:13:53] Toliy: Well, I'm definitely trying to. Right. And, and to me for, for a long time, te tell, telling you guys about news of what's happening or that has always been. You 

[00:14:03] Eldar: were just a, a good product.

[00:14:04] Toliy: Yeah. They 

[00:14:05] Eldar: created a very good product. 

[00:14:06] Toliy: Yes. Yes. I was definitely like a loud advocate, you know, a 

[00:14:09] Katherine: regurgitator. 

[00:14:10] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. But in that process, yeah. Then, then, then like, um, I'm just consuming all of this content and consuming all of these things that someone else is producing someone else's is benefiting from.

[00:14:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:14:23] Toliy: Rather than building my own self, you 

[00:14:26] Eldar: know? Correct. Or, and a lot of times if you listen carefully to the people that are like totally, maybe Right. Who are then promoting, secondhand, promoting, they don't even have hot takes A lot of the times it was somebody else said something Yeah. Unchecked, you know, you kind of run with it.

[00:14:43] Yeah. So then what are your thoughts? Where are your thoughts on the subject? What do you actually think? Right. A lot of times you don't even get to think because you've been marketed so many times that the sensory, informational overall that's in your brain. Now. You can't think for yourself because the first thing that comes to mind is the thing that somebody else said.

[00:15:00] It's just, you just pick. Well, 

[00:15:01] Toliy: if you're a consumer of things, you don't have to ever think 

[00:15:04] Yeah. 

[00:15:04] Toliy: You just have to 

[00:15:05] Eldar: regurgitate. 

[00:15:05] Toliy: Yeah. You just have to repeat what someone else says. 

[00:15:08] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:15:08] Toliy: Right. Um, sometimes this happens in religious circles. 

[00:15:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:15:15] Toliy: Right. 

[00:15:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:15:16] Toliy: Where they're telling you things 

[00:15:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:15:18] Toliy: But you don't understand them, or you don't, you, you can't explain them.

[00:15:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:15:22] Toliy: But you're listening to someone else saying it. Some things could definitely be true and Right. 

[00:15:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:15:27] Toliy: But they're not, it, like, it's not an empowering. Type, type of like, um, scenario. 

[00:15:32] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:15:32] Toliy: You know, so Yeah, like, um, it, it, it's crazy 'cause you could literally take it on like any topic, anything that any one of us here likes.

[00:15:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:15:44] Toliy: You could bring in any example and you could see how you, you, you've attached yourself to be part of that thing versus like, it's very difficult to keep it as like, Hey, I'm just gonna watch this right now. 

[00:15:56] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:15:56] Toliy: And then it, it starts and ends right here. I'm not gonna think about anything about it.

[00:15:59] I'm not gonna like 

[00:16:00] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:16:00] Toliy: Take it into consideration. It's not gonna change how I feel about things. Yeah. I think it always does. All all of these things always influence us. 

[00:16:08] Katherine: If you weren't interested, you wouldn't watch it. 

[00:16:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:16:10] Katherine: Like, I don't watch things that I'm not interested in. 

[00:16:13] Toliy: Correct. 

[00:16:13] Katherine: You know, 

[00:16:14] Toliy: obviously.

[00:16:14] Katherine: So there's, there's gotta be some appeal and something that hooks you. Yeah. Even if you're like, trying to be cautious, like subconsciously maybe like, it, it appeals to something in your brain. 

[00:16:26] Toliy: There's always something and, and, and some and, and sometimes I think that you don't have the ability to actually know what it for sure is.

[00:16:33] You could be saying, oh, I'm just watching it. You know? 'cause it's like a brainless show or something. But it could, it, it could actually be, um, something else that you want out of it or something else that's influencing you in a different way. So you might not actually even be sure as to why you're watching that show.

[00:16:49] Right. Like, why are you actually watching this? You could say, oh, you know, I like this or that. But it could be something completely different that you're not even thinking of at that 

[00:16:58] Eldar: time. But it is influencing you. 

[00:17:00] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:01] Eldar: A lot of the problems I think, stem from consuming this types of information, especially when it comes to religious content, political content, or any kind of divisive content, is that you wish, if you just watch the stuff and it stayed there and you're done, the thing is you start carrying that into your, into your life.

[00:17:20] Right. You start to regurgitate this stuff and what's happening. 

[00:17:22] Toliy: But it's also impossible, I think, to, to do that, you know? 

[00:17:26] Eldar: Well, 

[00:17:27] Toliy: I think it's very 

[00:17:27] Eldar: difficult to have it, to have, what do you mean? To watch something? You not, we could talk, we could definitely talk about that. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I, 

[00:17:31] Toliy: yeah, 

[00:17:32] Eldar: for some people, I think, yeah.

[00:17:33] Yeah. Maybe, you know, a lot of times, because you like it, you have interest in it, right? You have to pick a side. You have to take a side of where you stand on the subject matter, and then that subject matter that you have, that you took now have to be then shared with the people around you most of the time.

[00:17:48] And that's when static happens. That's when you start getting into all these things. 

[00:17:52] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:17:53] Eldar: Different conspiracy theories. Dj, we spoke about this, right? Mm. Where a lot of times, right, your boy Right. Not gonna name, his name is into conspiracy theories, and he finds himself down this rabbit hole where he's just like, you know, exerting all this energy, giving it all this time in order to prove these points.

[00:18:10] For what? Yeah. DJ's like, yo, I'm unsubscribing from this shit, yo, this shit only pay my bills, yo. Mm-hmm. Not enough of this. 

[00:18:15] DJ: Nah, I used to be a big, 

[00:18:17] Eldar: you know what I'm saying? 

[00:18:17] Yeah. 

[00:18:18] DJ: Back 

[00:18:18] Eldar: in 

[00:18:18] DJ: 2005. 

[00:18:19] Eldar: So a lot of people 

[00:18:20] DJ: Yeah. 

[00:18:20] Eldar: Get consumed by this stuff. 

[00:18:21] DJ: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:22] Eldar: Right? 

[00:18:22] DJ: For sure. 

[00:18:23] Eldar: But then when it, when does it come to you?

[00:18:24] When are you gonna actually build yourself? Stand on your own truth, right? 

[00:18:28] DJ: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:29] Eldar: But no, you actually are living out somebody else's life and you don't even know where it started and how, how it started. 

[00:18:34] DJ: Mm-hmm. 

[00:18:35] Eldar: It just keeps going. You know? 

[00:18:37] DJ: I have a question. What was the, um, original question? 'cause I, I thought you guys, what is it relating to this?

[00:18:44] Eldar: Attention span. 

[00:18:45] DJ: Attention span, right? 

[00:18:45] Eldar: Yeah. Attention. Like, 

[00:18:46] DJ: you know, are you saying like, totally. Are you saying like, because you, uh, you subscribe to all these things, you're just, your attention's going all to that, is that what you're saying? 

[00:18:55] Toliy: Well, so, um, yes, but it also, um, when you subscribe to all of these different things and when you consume content, you actually no longer have an attention span.

[00:19:06] Oh, okay. You have no attention for anything. Don't think I got that. Your mind is constantly in like notification land or like checking this, checking that, seeing what's going on there. New, see what's going on. That news breaking news. Yeah. Yeah. Like you, like you no longer sought out what, what you were, uh, 

[00:19:22] DJ: it's just scaled a whole bunch of other stuff.

[00:19:24] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:19:24] DJ: Already. 

[00:19:24] Toliy: Yeah. And then it's very difficult if, if like, if you have to focus on doing something for yourself 

[00:19:30] DJ: mm-hmm. 

[00:19:31] Toliy: You'll prob probably find it very difficult to do any of that. And then, and then, and then maybe you beat yourself up as say like, oh, why can't I focus on this? 

[00:19:39] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:40] Toliy: Why can't I just sit down and dedicate two hours?

[00:19:42] Just read or something. Right. Or like, you know, how many people could just pick up a book and read for example now? 

[00:19:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:19:48] Toliy: Like, or, or do something that, that, that's beneficial though. That's again productive for. Themselves. 

[00:19:53] DJ: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:54] Toliy: They just kind of wanna rot, rot, rot away and just Yeah. Doom scroll. Right.

[00:19:59] They call it, it dooms. 

[00:20:00] DJ: Yeah. That's what it is. 

[00:20:00] Toliy: Right? Right. Short form content. Why is short form content 

[00:20:04] DJ: that 

[00:20:04] Toliy: shit you so popular? 

[00:20:05] DJ: Every time I come home, like, not every time, but like, if I go on my phone, 

[00:20:10] Toliy: it's over 

[00:20:10] DJ: for, for five minutes, 30 minutes pass. I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah. I'm just like, but, 

[00:20:15] Toliy: but 

[00:20:15] DJ: imagine watching one video.

[00:20:16] Yeah. One 

[00:20:18] Toliy: thing for 30 minutes. Definitely. Or in that 30 minutes, you're actually consuming like 200 things. 

[00:20:24] DJ: Bullshit. Yeah. Bullshit though. You, 

[00:20:25] Toliy: you're consuming like sports, music, mo movies, social media, this, that, you know, news. Mm-hmm. Politics, religion, everything. 

[00:20:32] DJ: And that chops away at your 

[00:20:32] Katherine: attention, man.

[00:20:33] Yeah. Imagine like, they, they switched, we were already hooked on content and then we got introduced to short form content. 

[00:20:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:39] Katherine: Like TikTok and like the shorts on, on 

[00:20:41] Eldar: straight 

[00:20:42] Katherine: on YouTube. 

[00:20:43] Eldar: I'm gonna channel an old man by the name Norm. Mike used to know him. We used to go to philosophy club back in Bergen, and he would always turn to me.

[00:20:52] And when we talk about th this type of stuff, like attention and stuff, he would turn to me. He is like, elder. Did you know that yesterday I watched a show that was a 30 minute show. Oh yes. I remember this. And I, and I actually wrote down how many times there was a commercial. How many different commercials were in those commercials, you know, he would gimme like a crazy astronomical number, like 30 different commercials, you know, in the span of 30 minutes or whatever that he saw.

[00:21:14] He is like, imagine what that's doing to our attention span. 

[00:21:18] Katherine: Oh, 

[00:21:18] Eldar: Norma's dead by now he's already dead. He was an old man, right? Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:21] Katherine: He has no idea. 

[00:21:22] Eldar: He has no idea. 

[00:21:23] Katherine: Oh man. 

[00:21:23] Eldar: What they did with the short content, you know what I mean? Like yeah. What, what it's doing. But he's, he was always saying that, so I remember that 

[00:21:29] Katherine: hooked.

[00:21:29] Didn't you just last weekend record four min, you made a four minute video. 

[00:21:34] Eldar: Uhhuh 

[00:21:35] Katherine: of my 7-year-old niece consuming 

[00:21:38] Eldar: Oh yeah. 

[00:21:38] Katherine: Short form content. Yeah. And also the content that she's consuming is weird. It's just weird. It's 

[00:21:41] Eldar: weird. 

[00:21:42] Katherine: I just don't even know how to like describe it. 

[00:21:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:21:44] Katherine: It's very 

[00:21:45] Eldar: strange. 

[00:21:45] Katherine: But you filmed a four minute video.

[00:21:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:21:47] Katherine: And then after that, ill show you, she just looks like she almost looks, looks like, like dazed or like, yeah. I don't even wanna use the word high. Mm-hmm. But like, yeah, she's 

[00:21:55] Eldar: high's like 

[00:21:56] Katherine: hundred 

[00:21:56] Eldar: percent 

[00:21:56] Katherine: and she's just like, her eyes are like, you know, she just sits there like completely 

[00:22:00] Eldar: out of it. 

[00:22:01] Katherine: Out of it.

[00:22:01] It, it's weird. It's weird 

[00:22:03] Eldar: when you, it's almost like, it's almost like a deliberate, uh, brainwashing. 

[00:22:07] Katherine: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:08] Eldar: To get a very brain 

[00:22:09] Katherine: frying 

[00:22:09] Eldar: Yeah. Brain frying. To get a very specific type of being, you know? Yeah. And obviously that being is what it seems so 

[00:22:15] Katherine: deliberate, right? 

[00:22:15] Eldar: Yeah. It is deliberate. Obviously it's marketing companies try to market shit because they're big executives and they get to fill their pockets with selling your product.

[00:22:23] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:24] Eldar: At the end of the day. And that's what's happening. 

[00:22:25] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:22:26] Eldar: And they figure it out. Human psychology, human beings and how that works on them, on us. 

[00:22:32] Katherine: It works 

[00:22:33] DJ: pretty 

[00:22:33] Eldar: good. It works. It works pretty good. Works pretty well. Yeah, it works pretty well, right? 

[00:22:36] DJ: Yeah. 

[00:22:37] Eldar: We wouldn't have different brands. You wouldn't be wearing that hoodie or that hat, right.

[00:22:41] With that brand. Hey, I'm 

[00:22:41] DJ: gonna let you know this is all thrifted 

[00:22:43] Eldar: fine 

[00:22:44] DJ: gift or given rather 

[00:22:45] Eldar: th just run, just run with my example. Just run, run my example. You know, I'm 

[00:22:50] Katherine: gifted, like gifted to you gift. 

[00:22:52] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Fine. But you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah. 

[00:22:56] DJ: No, 

[00:22:56] Eldar: for sure. Right? Yeah. So, so what's the problem?

[00:22:59] So you had enough, 

[00:23:01] Toliy: so well, well, yeah. I mean, the problem is that like you catch yourself, um, consuming so much content and then one, not understanding the impact that it's making on you from like, just like a philosophical standpoint of like how you think about things. 

[00:23:16] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:16] Toliy: Like that, that's one layer, but a second layer is that you're also just like, before you know it, you care about things that have zero impact on you, your life in your life ever will, will, will be, you know, 

[00:23:29] Eldar: but you actually develop very specific emotions.

[00:23:32] Toliy: Yeah. Like e even, like, there's plenty of times where I'll watch, like, um, like I watch plenty of shows of like the, the number one form of con of like content consumptions in, in general, which is like a crazy phenomenon, um, that happen. Um, like for like streamers or just like, you know, just like, um, shows on YouTube and like channels is react con, uh, content.

[00:23:55] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:56] Toliy: Where you actually no longer have to create anything. Shit. Yeah. People just want to hear what you think about things. 

[00:24:02] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:03] Toliy: So, mm-hmm. Like for example, like, um, like Shannon and Sharp and Chad Johnson have like a nightcap podcast, it's called mm-hmm. Night Nightcap. 

[00:24:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:11] Toliy: They go on like five days a week.

[00:24:13] Eldar: Yeah. At 

[00:24:13] Toliy: the same time. 

[00:24:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:14] Toliy: And they just, they watch all, like, they, they like 

[00:24:17] Eldar: the news, hot 

[00:24:18] Toliy: news. Yeah. Well, no, they like, wait till all the games are over that day. Oh. Whether it's football, uh, they, they primarily do football, um, and, um, basketball. 

[00:24:27] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:27] Toliy: You know, um, and they, uh, will watch all like, like all, all the games are over.

[00:24:33] So now people tune in to see, well, what did they think about it? Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:36] Eldar: What they saw. Yeah. 

[00:24:37] Toliy: Yeah. Right. So they just give you their takes about like drama going on, trades going on mm-hmm. Things that are happening, this or that. Yeah. And you just li listen to it. Yeah. 

[00:24:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:46] Toliy: So like, you watch may maybe that same game or maybe you don't have time, but you hear what they say about it, and then you move on with your life.

[00:24:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:53] Toliy: But they're getting paid also to, for example, to watch these, these games watch. You're not, and then you're getting paid to, 

[00:24:58] Eldar: you're paying them. 

[00:24:58] Toliy: You, you're paying them. 

[00:24:59] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:25:00] Toliy: By watching what they think about something. 

[00:25:02] Katherine: Yeah. Well, I think one of, one of these things as an influencer or commentator, you know, like a social media presence is that they, people now have, you know, since we are less social in the real world and more social, like diving into our phones, we start almost kind of feeling like that person.

[00:25:22] I, I don't know if you can say a friend, like technically not a friend, 'cause it's one sided, but you start actually like, really caring about what people have to say, you know? Oh, 

[00:25:31] Toliy: absolutely. 

[00:25:32] Katherine: So like, that's how they build a following people. Like, for whatever reason, like what they have to say. They relate with them.

[00:25:38] Say they relate. Yeah. Like I, I can tell you that, uh, on my end. So, um, in my twenties I really liked, uh, makeup, uh, content on YouTube. You know, girls that would go on and like teach how to do makeup. I've always liked it. I found it really interesting. What do you do when you do makeup? You're sitting in front of the mirror, you're doing stuff, right?

[00:25:55] Maybe you're explaining what you're doing, but you just have a phone or a camera in front of you. So you talk, A lot of these girls start talking about like their lives and like their days and their 

[00:26:04] Eldar: personal shit, 

[00:26:05] Katherine: personal stuff to know them. Maybe they have kids, maybe they have pets, maybe they care about something or maybe something happened to them and they create the wildest followings.

[00:26:15] I mean, millions. They get millions of followers. And you, and you, when you look at their con their comments, it's, it's not just the makeup, it's, it's about them. People start connecting to them as a person. Mm-hmm. And that's, and that's, that's how you build like these, these connections and, and, and all this influencing.

[00:26:34] Um, I forgot where I was going with that, but, um. People just tune in just to see. Like at times I would just not even care about the video. I would just put play just 'cause I wanted to hear what she had to say. 

[00:26:46] Toliy: Yeah. They, they actually have a word for this, for like this phenomenon. It's very popular. It's called being parasocial.

[00:26:53] DJ: Ah, para parasocial. 

[00:26:54] Katherine: What is that? Parasocial. Think 

[00:26:55] DJ: about it. 

[00:26:56] Toliy: You heard of that word before, right? Parasocial? Para, 

[00:26:58] Katherine: I think Parasocial. What does it have to do with paranormal? 'cause like 

[00:27:01] Toliy: power No. Has nothing. Nothing. Uh, well, yeah. I'm not sure if it has anything to with that. There's probably 

[00:27:05] Eldar: a tie. 

[00:27:05] Toliy: Yeah, there 

[00:27:06] Katherine: has 

[00:27:06] Toliy: to be one, but para, para, uh uh, let actually read you the actual Yeah.

[00:27:11] Definition. 

[00:27:11] Katherine: I've 

[00:27:11] Toliy: heard it's commonly used, um, terms like specifically in streaming because it has a lot of parasocial people. Yeah. Um, 

[00:27:20] Katherine: one side Yeah. I, I, I'll let you read. 

[00:27:22] Toliy: Yeah. Uh, parasocial relationships are one sided psychological bonds where a media user invests emotional energy, interests and time into a persona, celebrity influencer or fictional character who's unaware of their existence.

[00:27:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:27:37] Toliy: Yeah. It's true. Of course, these relationships often you don't 

[00:27:40] Eldar: repeat millions of people. 

[00:27:41] Toliy: Yeah. All these relationships often feel like genuine friendships or intimacy are developed through repeat media exposure. So social media interaction or an extreme cases, illusions of personal connection. 

[00:27:53] Eldar: Okay.

[00:27:53] I'm before you continue with this. 

[00:27:55] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:27:55] Eldar: Okay. I'd like to go around the room and find out how many of us here have these types of relationships. Raise your hand and tell me how many of these parasocial relationships you have right now. Alright. So 

[00:28:08] no. 

[00:28:08] Katherine: What do you mean? Like how many, what do you mean? 

[00:28:10] Eldar: Do you 

[00:28:10] Katherine: how I No, I definitely follow people that I've following 

[00:28:13] Eldar: three years.

[00:28:13] Do you have this, this, this, this, this relationship that we just read, by definition, do you have this with them? Do you tell them Happy birth? Do you comment happy birthday? No. On their birthdays? 

[00:28:21] Katherine: No, no, no. However, there, there was a, like, I'll just give you an example. Uh, one of the makeup girls, this is years ago.

[00:28:27] Mm-hmm. Like in my twenties, uh, I followed her for years. Okay. And I know that she got married and they were trying to have kids for a long time. 

[00:28:34] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:34] Katherine: And, um, in one of her episodes, like she shares that she's pregnant. Mm-hmm. I genuinely feel, felt happy for her. I actually remember this is years ago.

[00:28:42] Mm-hmm. And I was just like, oh my gosh, I'm so happy that like, uh mm-hmm. You know, she was able to like, finally get pregnant and like have her kids, you know, but like, I don't know if that counts. 

[00:28:51] DJ: Does that apply? 

[00:28:51] Katherine: Yeah. Like I, 

[00:28:53] Toliy: I remember feeling happy for her. It could, but it's like a relationship. It's like, for example, like there's like, yeah.

[00:28:56] You gotta 

[00:28:56] DJ: be really madly in in it involved with that. 

[00:28:59] Toliy: Yeah. Like, there's female, there's for example, females, dreamers. 

[00:29:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:03] Toliy: They get a bunch of donations because males feel like, they're like, yo, like this is their girlfriend. That's a business. They're like, for example, but they're having a parasocial.

[00:29:11] These people don't know who they are. Yes. Never met them. They have no relationship with them. Yeah. So like for example, if you're watching a video, there might be 10,000 people watching live. 

[00:29:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:19] Toliy: No one is actually speaking to you. It's just, you know, like, this person's just like speaking. 

[00:29:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:24] Toliy: But like, you get this relationship where you care about the other person almost.

[00:29:28] That, that, that's what the Paris OSHA is. But there's obviously like levels of it. 

[00:29:31] Eldar: This is not as diagnosed as a sickness yet. 

[00:29:34] Toliy: Oh, no. It's definitely a sickness. 

[00:29:36] Eldar: Should be. 

[00:29:36] Toliy: No, it definitely is. Well, 

[00:29:37] Katherine: it's psychological. Yeah. But like the definition doesn't actually have like sickness or illness in it. 

[00:29:42] Toliy: Like you could become a stalker, for example.

[00:29:44] Yeah. And then you get banned Uhhuh, but you think that this person is like, I don't know, like mm-hmm. Yeah. You're in a relationship 

[00:29:49] Katherine: that, that might become more common as this, like parasocial stuff, like continues. 

[00:29:54] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:29:54] Katherine: But like, wouldn't you say that maybe that will become more, more common? 

[00:29:57] DJ: Yeah. 

[00:29:57] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:29:57] Katherine: Well look at the people that stalk celebrities.

[00:30:00] Yeah. You know, even before this time of social media. Yeah. That's 

[00:30:02] DJ: fair of social. 

[00:30:03] Katherine: Yeah, for sure. Like the stalkers. Mm-hmm. You know, they, they feel like they have some sort of connection maybe with, with the celebrity, you know? That's why they stalk. 

[00:30:11] DJ: There's a, there's a pretty good anime about this. It's called Blue Earth came out in the nineties, I think.

[00:30:17] Oh no, I'm saying it wrong, but, um, it talks about this 

[00:30:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:20] DJ: Exact thing. That's phenomenal. Dude. This dude is obsessed with this model. Mm-hmm. This Japanese dude. And, um, this is like before MySpace. This was in the nineties. This movie came out. Mm-hmm. Maybe the eighties even. I think they might've remastered it in the nineties, but either way, it's an old movie and they like, kind of predicted all this shit.

[00:30:35] All 

[00:30:36] Eldar: the shit. 

[00:30:36] DJ: Yeah. It's called Perfect Blue. Not blue. Perfect Blue. Perfect 

[00:30:38] Katherine: Blue. 

[00:30:39] DJ: Yeah. I'll write that. This dude just gets obsessed with this model he sees eventually. It's a, it's a good, it's a good mind. 

[00:30:47] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:48] Katherine: Perfect. 

[00:30:48] DJ: Uh, 

[00:30:50] Katherine: movie. This is a 

[00:30:50] DJ: movie. Yeah. 

[00:30:51] Katherine: Okay. Wrote down. 

[00:30:52] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:30:52] DJ: It's like 1997. Yeah. It came 

[00:30:54] Toliy: out like, think about like ho like Halloween for young kids.

[00:30:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:57] Toliy: What do you drying up as? You like Batman, Superman. 

[00:31:01] Eldar: Yeah. It's true. 

[00:31:02] Toliy: Right? It's true. Like you're, like, they're promote again, it's, it's a very slow, um, conversion of, of how you think, how you do things. Mm-hmm. You're a tiny kid. You love Superman, you love this. 

[00:31:14] Eldar: Hey, don't stop, stop trying to ruin Christmas story.

[00:31:15] And 

[00:31:15] Katherine: I was every single Disney princess at one point. Yes. As a, as a kid growing up. Yeah. The kids like the superhero, the boys and the girls. Mm-hmm. Like the, the princesses. 

[00:31:24] Toliy: Yeah. You know, Saul, 

[00:31:25] Eldar: what do you suggest? 

[00:31:26] Toliy: Well, well, I mean, look, do 

[00:31:29] Eldar: you 

[00:31:29] Toliy: suggest 

[00:31:29] Eldar: anything? 

[00:31:30] Toliy: I'm not suggesting like a mass suicide here, you know?

[00:31:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:33] Toliy: But, you know, 

[00:31:34] Eldar: look, 

[00:31:35] Toliy: um, 

[00:31:37] Eldar: for yourself, 

[00:31:39] Toliy: well 

[00:31:39] Eldar: speak about your personal thing. 

[00:31:40] Toliy: Well, yeah. I feel like the You had enough exam. Yeah, I definitely have. Well, I mean, I'm, I'm trying to have enough in the process. Why? Yeah. Well, because I recognize what's going on now, and then once mm-hmm. Once you actually, like, 

[00:31:52] Eldar: you finally see how it's influencing you.

[00:31:53] Toliy: Yes. One, once you're aware of what's going on, you can't, like unsee that, you know, like, you can't, like, not like, you know about 

[00:32:00] Eldar: it. One of the biggest sticks I do get is when anybody, like, you know, obviously, especially when it comes to sports or whatever, where somebody else goes and starts talking up, uplifting the other person, like, you know, accomplishments about sports, esteeming, esteeming and stuff like that.

[00:32:14] Like, you know, like my cousin when he did the LeBron James stuff, you know 

[00:32:17] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:32:17] Eldar: Where he was feeling bad for him and like, you know, oh, but he did this. He's doing this. Like, it's one of about my biggest icks. Like what party? 

[00:32:24] DJ: Like a Diddy party. 

[00:32:26] Eldar: Yeah. You know, that's all 

[00:32:28] DJ: I'm say about LeBron. 

[00:32:31] Toliy: Yeah. Like the, the thing is that it's tough because, um, when you 

[00:32:36] Eldar: think about this, it's, it's just what I feel it when somebody shares this shit with me is just I feel how powerless and how lack of empowerment that individual has in them, that they have to get to that point of then bigging somebody else up like that to that degree.

[00:32:48] They 

[00:32:48] DJ: know, 

[00:32:49] Eldar: right? 

[00:32:50] DJ: Yeah. 

[00:32:51] Eldar: It's 

[00:32:51] Toliy: like, yeah, but that's, that's the thing is that 

[00:32:52] Eldar: they, they gave away all the power and they're like, they're steaming that, like 

[00:32:56] Toliy: Yeah. But that, that's the thing is that they don't know that they actually, um, gave, gave, gave up their power. They, that they did any of this. Yeah. They, they just kind of downloaded the content that they were good and they were just a good boy.

[00:33:07] Eldar: Yeah. They were a good 

[00:33:08] Toliy: boy and they, and they followed in, um, instructions, followed the plan. 

[00:33:10] Eldar: They followed the plan 

[00:33:11] Toliy: that was outlined. 

[00:33:12] Katherine: They're just a product of, of the environment, of the Yeah, 

[00:33:14] Eldar: no, for sure. 

[00:33:14] Katherine: You know, for the plan of, you know, whatever. 

[00:33:16] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:33:17] Toliy: yeah. 

[00:33:17] Katherine: They're just a product. Yeah, 

[00:33:18] Toliy: yeah. You know, so, 

[00:33:20] Eldar: and obviously in, in, in the field that we are in or the things that we do here are supposed to have this ick, like everybody who's trying to do actual self-improvement, they're supposed to ban every celebrity, never idolize anyone, ever.

[00:33:32] You know what I mean? And really just hone in on their own self and their own craft. That's like, that's, that's, that's why it comes very natural to me. 

[00:33:39] Katherine: You think? Do you think that like, um. I kind of have an an, an i, a little bit of an ick towards something. And maybe this is similar, uh, because it's so big now with social media and influencers, is people talking about success.

[00:33:54] You know, 

[00:33:54] Toliy: oh, this one's 

[00:33:55] Katherine: good. Mm-hmm. Especially for females. It's like, you know, be, be a boss and be this and that. Mm-hmm. And it's just like, uh, you know, like when do we stop, um, idolizing money and, and you know, chasing, you know, whatever is a career, a title, and like, start focusing on who you are as a person.

[00:34:15] Like what you have inside. Like you're, you're, you know, what's going on in your mind or like, what do you value, you know? Yeah. Like who, who is that person underneath? Like seeking that title or that success? Like, like do you, you know, are you a decent human? I guess so. I, I feel like there's a lot of idolizing of that, you know, of like preaching that and people liking that.

[00:34:38] Um, and I think that, that, I think this, the more we do that maybe we, the farther we get from actually succeeding as, as humans, right. As people. 

[00:34:46] Eldar: Yeah. But you know, how you finished it with succeeding us as humans, I'm not sure if we're supposed to be all tied into all of us succeeding all together. You know what I mean?

[00:34:56] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:57] Eldar: I'm really not sure 

[00:34:58] Katherine: about that. So you, you're saying this is like by design, like it's 

[00:35:00] Eldar: supposed to be this way? Yes. I think it's supposed to be this way. That's, so what I'm saying is that like, I think everybody has their own. What is it called? 

[00:35:07] Katherine: And everyone is where what they should 

[00:35:08] Eldar: be evolutionary.

[00:35:09] Katherine: I see. 

[00:35:09] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:35:10] Katherine: Yeah. Yes. I just, I just find that I see a little bit as like idolization of, uh, a, a status or trying to be somewhere maybe where you're not, 

[00:35:17] Eldar: I think the most important thing when it comes to this whole global thing of what's going on, the most important thing that, that global influence does not influence your world, your personal world.

[00:35:28] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:29] Eldar: And you just, hopefully you're empowered enough to be able to fight those things back. Like I've been telling you about certain things that you are listening about, conspiracy theories and stuff like that, or political things, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. How's that gonna influence your world or our world Right.

[00:35:42] That we've established. Yeah. Right. You know what I'm saying? 

[00:35:44] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:35:45] Eldar: Because if you're gonna bring some information to me, I'm gonna ask very specific questions about this. Mm-hmm. And if you're not ready to have that conversation, we're gonna have static. Right. And then we're gonna ask, and then the, the, the final question is gonna say, wait, how is this serving me?

[00:35:59] You know what I mean? Right? 

[00:36:00] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:36:00] Eldar: It also can come to a point where you can say, well, this matters to me, right? 

[00:36:05] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:05] Eldar: This is important to me. And Joe went down this rabbit hole where he's like, you know, politics are important a lot. Right? Then it starts 

[00:36:10] Katherine: dividing your household 

[00:36:12] Eldar: and, and then it starts to di divide, okay, this is so important to you, and now this, it's, it's, it's better than the division, worse than the division that's causing all this stuff.

[00:36:20] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:36:20] Eldar: What's actually going on here? And who actually are you, you know? Mm-hmm. So if you're not ready to have those types of conversations and you're not really ready to stand on it and put everything on the line, I think you have to be very careful of allowing the world. To install this nonsense, 

[00:36:35] Katherine: to impact you, 

[00:36:36] Eldar: to impact you in these ways.

[00:36:38] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:39] Eldar: Because you're gonna run into these walls, you know what I mean? Where people are gonna start disagreeing with you, you know? 

[00:36:46] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:36:46] Eldar: Or you're gonna start gravitating towards what? A team or, or a church or society of people that are like-minded, and then you stop thinking completely. 

[00:36:56] Toliy: Yeah. Think, think about it, how difficult it is for you to like, change things for For yourself.

[00:37:01] For yourself. 

[00:37:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:02] Toliy: Now try to change things for two people, for 10 people. 

[00:37:05] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:06] Toliy: For a hundred people, for millions of people, that changes a very slow, like, you know, it's a very slow simmer. 

[00:37:12] Katherine: Yeah. Very 

[00:37:13] Eldar: slow. 

[00:37:13] Toliy: Yeah. You know, 

[00:37:14] Eldar: for sure 

[00:37:14] Toliy: you already have a hard time trying to figure things out for yourself, and you just have kind of you and yourself, right?

[00:37:20] Like, 

[00:37:20] Katherine: yeah. 

[00:37:21] Toliy: But now trying to get people to move in the same direction to, you know, you know, 

[00:37:25] Eldar: yeah. Definitely 

[00:37:26] Toliy: operate as a team or like, you know, all that is very, um, that's 

[00:37:29] Eldar: difficult, 

[00:37:30] Toliy: challenging, you know? So Yeah. Like the, the, the marketers already know that there's, there, there's people that are just bucketed into different, like, you know 

[00:37:38] mm-hmm.

[00:37:39] Toliy: Groups, 

[00:37:40] Eldar: this 

[00:37:40] Toliy: is who they are, and they know how those people move and what appeals and they, that's, and they're just, you know, 

[00:37:44] Eldar: feed them. 

[00:37:45] Toliy: Yeah. They're, they're, they're, they're gonna like, 

[00:37:47] Eldar: extract 

[00:37:48] Toliy: whatever they need to extract them. They're, they're putting you in a position where you have no choice as to how you feel about certain things.

[00:37:53] Katherine: Yeah. I, I, um, I saw on Netflix, there's, um, I shared it with you guys. There's a. Like a new documentary about like the manosphere. 

[00:38:02] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:38:02] Katherine: Something manosphere. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's very interesting. A lot of people are like, commenting on it. A lot of people are talking about it. And, um, most of the followers of these guys are like young, young males.

[00:38:16] Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:17] Katherine: You know, and they're preaching very, like masochist or, uh, what's the word, 

[00:38:20] Eldar: ma? Masculine. Masculine 

[00:38:21] princip. 

[00:38:22] Katherine: Yeah. Principles, masculine. It's almost like, what is it? Toxicity MAs masculine toxicity. Yeah. Yeah, 

[00:38:26] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:38:26] Katherine: So most of it is young males. Um, and then when you start following these guys and then starting, like digging into their home life or like who they are really?

[00:38:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:36] Katherine: They're not actually following what they're, 

[00:38:39] Eldar: they're not 

[00:38:39] Katherine: preaching. Of course not. This is, this sells. 

[00:38:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:43] Katherine: And this is what's making money. 

[00:38:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:38:45] Katherine: And people are just eating it up. 

[00:38:47] Eldar: Of course, 

[00:38:48] Katherine: they have millions of followers and 'cause 

[00:38:49] Eldar: they 

[00:38:50] Katherine: also figured it out, like they get stopped on the street. Like celebrities.

[00:38:52] Eldar: It's, it's a sales and market, and they pay it's pain. They figured it out and that's, yeah. 

[00:38:55] Toliy: No, they, they, they figured out that it's a lot easier to pretend mm-hmm. Than to be, 

[00:38:59] Eldar: than 

[00:38:59] Katherine: to be correct. 

[00:39:00] Toliy: And they, they, they, they just permanently pretend. 

[00:39:03] Eldar: Pretend, yeah. 

[00:39:04] Toliy: Making people think that they are, that they about that life.

[00:39:06] Yeah. That they actually be that. Right. 

[00:39:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:08] Toliy: And then they're actually not because it's too hard to actually be that person that they're portraying, but if we just said, Hey, we're like, we're, we're gonna do a skit right now. Yeah. I think we, we, we can all pretend 

[00:39:19] Eldar: yes, we can, 

[00:39:20] Toliy: you know? 

[00:39:20] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:39:21] Toliy: We'll 

[00:39:21] Katherine: oppress you because you, it's, it's very, um, hypocritical as well.

[00:39:24] Like 

[00:39:24] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:39:25] Katherine: They're invested into Oly fans. They make money off of it. They don't respect the girls and they, you know, speak against the woman doing it, but they're profiting from it. It's a very weird, um, 

[00:39:36] Toliy: yeah, 

[00:39:37] Katherine: yeah. Like the, like, they almost don't really have a stance, you know, it's just like, well, whatever makes money, or, you know, like, whatever.

[00:39:43] It's gonna make me richer. 

[00:39:44] Toliy: There are stance 

[00:39:45] Katherine: is 

[00:39:45] Toliy: just, I'm gonna, 

[00:39:46] Katherine: it's whatever. 

[00:39:46] Toliy: Yeah. I'm just gonna make money off people who are willing to, 

[00:39:49] Katherine: to give 

[00:39:49] Toliy: it. 

[00:39:50] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:39:52] Eldar: Yeah. I don't think there's ethical considerations when it comes to these types of people, and I think rightfully so. I think that they're also like opportunists.

[00:40:00] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:40:00] Eldar: You know what I mean? They see an opportunity and they, 

[00:40:02] Katherine: that's becoming normal, right? Don't you see 

[00:40:04] Eldar: like, oh yeah. 

[00:40:04] Katherine: People online doing all sorts of stupid stuff. Just, 

[00:40:07] Eldar: they call them grifters. They, what's the next grift become? What's the next lick? 

[00:40:11] Katherine: Become viral. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 

[00:40:12] DJ: yeah. 

[00:40:13] Eldar: You know 

[00:40:13] Katherine: what's, that's just kind of the world that we, that that's what it is now.

[00:40:15] Like, that's the world that we live in. Become, 

[00:40:17] Eldar: yeah. Which normal, which I think is, which I think is, is not, not necessarily a bad thing, it's just what it is. 

[00:40:22] Katherine: It's just part, yeah. It's just part of what, what 

[00:40:24] Eldar: it is. Like I said, the most important thing I think is if you're a thinker or you're trying to, you know, work on yourself, is that you want to make sure that that world does not influence the world that you're living in.

[00:40:33] Like DJ just said, I'm working on myself. Right. This stuff resonates with me more than all the noise outside. Why? 

[00:40:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:39] Eldar: Well, because we're about this life. This is what we want. You know, because we want to empower DJ at, at the highest capacity, we want to empower Katherine at the highest capacity. Mike at the highest capacity, myself at the highest capacity.

[00:40:53] So then we can become the creators of our worlds, of not our reality. So we can get exactly what we want and be confident, really actually confident not to be pretenders. 

[00:41:04] DJ: You gotta fake it till you make it. What about that saying 

[00:41:07] Eldar: that is a very interesting that you said that just now. That's 

[00:41:09] DJ: interesting.

[00:41:09] Eldar: You know, why you, you know, um, you know why it's interesting is because I was having a conversation on XI dunno if it was you. 

[00:41:16] DJ: Hmm. 

[00:41:17] Eldar: But, uh, it was a person who chimed in on, um, when we talked about alcoholism, when Julius was here. 

[00:41:25] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:25] Eldar: And, um, one person suggested like, oh, it's pretty simple. All you have to do is just fake it till you make it.

[00:41:32] And I'm like, wait, what? Was So 

[00:41:34] Katherine: I pretend that you're sober. 

[00:41:35] Eldar: Yeah, no. Like that you're sober person. Yeah. Like, you know, surround yourself around the right people or like act as if, whatever, you know? 

[00:41:40] Katherine: Yeah, I hear that a lot. Act 

[00:41:41] Eldar: as if and, and people and pe and this person, person said that like, just do it long enough because you can trick your brain and say anything.

[00:41:48] Right. So he said, if you really unhappy, it's neuroscience. All you Yeah. All you have to do is smile a lot and act as if you are happy and you'll be happy. 

[00:41:56] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:41:58] Eldar: And I was like, and this is the fake it till you make it thing. Right? Yeah. I was like, and I, and I responded, I said, this is interesting. We gotta, we definitely do a podcast.

[00:42:04] Yeah, 

[00:42:04] Katherine: yeah, yeah. 

[00:42:05] Eldar: On this. And it's funny that he says this, because I just had this conversation today. 

[00:42:08] Katherine: Yeah. My therapist has actually told me like, there's, there's something to it. Faking until you make it, you know? Yeah. Neuroscientists will say that like, your brain actually doesn't, doesn't know the difference.

[00:42:20] Doesn't know the difference. That's what the person says. So if you're telling it to yourself, it will eventually believe it. So there, there's something to that. 

[00:42:26] Mike: I heard this too, but I'm not sure if it's fake. I mean, if it's real, I can say you can fake yourself to believe in the bad stuff, but you cannot fake yourself to believe in the good stuff.

[00:42:38] Eldar: Oh, that's interesting. 

[00:42:39] Mike: Why? Well, because you can't fake like real things that actually have value. 

[00:42:45] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:45] Mike: You can't fake virtually. So what 

[00:42:46] Eldar: can you fake? What can you fake 

[00:42:47] Mike: till you make, you can fake anything that's not real or you can't 

[00:42:51] Eldar: fake anything 

[00:42:51] Mike: that's real. 

[00:42:52] Eldar: That's interesting. 

[00:42:53] Mike: This is like a, I think I have an example.

[00:42:54] Example. This is like a micha fact. 

[00:42:56] Eldar: Yes. Okay. That's 

[00:42:56] Mike: it. I, I'm gonna 

[00:42:57] Eldar: call it a fact. I like that, babe. Give me examples. 

[00:43:00] Katherine: Um, I have an ex, you two guys tell me if it's, we'll break 

[00:43:02] Eldar: totally up to speed in 

[00:43:03] Katherine: a second if I'm, if I'm on the right track here. But, um, um, I've had a, like, you know, I guess for, for a while I've had some, like, health issues and I started believing that, um, I was unhealthy, that I was infertile.

[00:43:17] Mm-hmm. And I can't do this. I can't get a regular period. I have all these issues with my health. I'm always tired, all this. So I started to believe that I'm just unhealthy. Mm-hmm. My, I, my, my self-talk was like super, super, just negative about my health. Mm-hmm. And of course, I'm not gonna get pregnant. I can't even do this, and I can't even do.

[00:43:34] Mm-hmm. So it was very negative. And I started obviously through therapy, you know, helping, you know, getting help with that. But I started seeing a, like a, a recent acupuncturist. 

[00:43:44] DJ: Mm-hmm. 

[00:43:45] Katherine: And with his help, like just going and, and, and, and trying to shift my mind. No one told me to do this. I started doing this on my own.

[00:43:54] Mm-hmm. So I started changing my narrative. I would see him, I still see him once a week, so I started changing my narrative to like, um, you know, that. That daily mantra thing that I like to listen to my own healing. 

[00:44:07] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:07] Katherine: I got it from there. Mm-hmm. She has a piece where she says, I accept my own healing.

[00:44:11] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:12] Katherine: So as I'm there sitting there with the acupuncture and, and he's doing stuff 

[00:44:16] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[00:44:17] Katherine: I, I start, uh, saying to myself like, I accept my own healing. I am healthy. Mm-hmm. I start speaking differently to myself than my usual self-talk. Okay. But specifically the healthy part. Okay. I have improved so much in my health since I'm seeing this doctor, but not be mm-hmm.

[00:44:31] Like, it could be partially 'cause of him, but it's, I know it's because of me. 

[00:44:37] Eldar: Mm-hmm. I think it's a bad 

[00:44:37] Katherine: example. My thoughts. Yeah. I also am not doing a great job at explaining it, but, well, 

[00:44:41] Eldar: not, not, I think you did a good job explaining your phenomenon, but I, but 

[00:44:43] Mike: I 

[00:44:44] Katherine: think it's a good example of 

[00:44:45] Mike: fake it till you make it.

[00:44:46] Katherine: But I am, I, I unlocked, like, I, I changed the narrative in my brain 

[00:44:51] Mike: of what I'm saying to myself. No, but I think you're not actually factoring in, uh, you actually have to ha do action behind it. You can only fake it till you make it with no action. Uh, for the good stuff. You cannot just like, oh, 

[00:45:03] Katherine: with no action, 

[00:45:04] Mike: without action.

[00:45:04] You are doing action. And if you really think about it, and if we really zone in on it, there's plenty of actions that you've taken to get Oh 

[00:45:10] Katherine: yeah. No. 

[00:45:11] Mike: Combined with the right thought. Yeah. It's not, you're not fing shit. You're not f shit you're actually doing. 

[00:45:15] Katherine: I just, but I started flipping the ne like the script in my mind and that 

[00:45:20] Mike: negative about my myself.

[00:45:21] Well, a percent the first step is the right thought. 

[00:45:23] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:24] Mike: And then the right speech and then the right action. 

[00:45:25] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:26] Mike: But you can't just have right thought and think, and then just good things will happen. 

[00:45:30] Katherine: Yeah. Fair. 

[00:45:30] Mike: Fair. You can, you can only be like deceived or. This whole, whatever it's called, this little conundrum thing towards the bad side.

[00:45:38] You can convince yourself as much as you want, that you're like, have all these problems and you don't even have to go out there and, you know, act any certain type of way. You could just sit at home and just be in a doom. And that's it. You just stuck. 

[00:45:50] Eldar: You don't have to act, you don't have to mm-hmm. Speak.

[00:45:52] You're just think and that's it. And obviously you speak to yourself. Totally. We're trying to break down, uh, BJ asked the questions like, Hey, how about fake it till you make it? Like we were talking about empowerment and stuff, how to be better, you know, be better in general. He goes, well, why don't, why don't we just do fake it till you make it kind of thing.

[00:46:07] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:46:07] Eldar: And now we're trying to, you know, uh, digest that a little bit, dissect it. Mm-hmm. And Catherine brought an example, but I don't think it's actually, yeah. My example 

[00:46:15] Katherine: didn't work 

[00:46:15] actually. 

[00:46:15] Eldar: I don't actually think that actually applies. Dj Do you have an example of fake it till you make it? 

[00:46:20] DJ: Faking it till I make it.

[00:46:22] Mm. 

[00:46:25] Eldar: And how do you even see the phrase? 

[00:46:28] DJ: I don't have, uh, an example offhand. Um, but it's something I could say I try. Definitely. 

[00:46:41] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:46:42] DJ: I suppose with like confidence, you know what I'm saying? 

[00:46:44] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:46:44] DJ: Speaking. Uh, like my own words and honestly, but 

[00:46:48] Eldar: yeah, 

[00:46:48] DJ: I have this fear of how I, I don't have that much tact, I believe.

[00:46:54] So I'm like, 

[00:46:55] Eldar: what does that mean? Tact? 

[00:46:56] DJ: Like, uh, just, uh, confidence, A good way of. Explaining something. 

[00:47:01] Eldar: Oh, okay. 

[00:47:02] DJ: Especially in like certain 

[00:47:03] Eldar: communication. 

[00:47:04] DJ: Communication, yeah. Communication problems. Yeah, pretty much. 

[00:47:06] Eldar: So you're trying to fake it by doing what? 

[00:47:09] DJ: Well, I was trying to fake it by like, just not saying as much, not voicing opinions as much, but, uh, Uhhuh, I don't think that works.

[00:47:17] So, so, 

[00:47:18] Eldar: yeah. So if you don't, if you don't voice the 

[00:47:20] DJ: opinion, because I, so I used to be a lot more, I used to be angry a lot. Like, or just like, just uhhuh annoyed quickly. So, 

[00:47:25] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:47:26] DJ: Um, I was like, in my mind I thought if I just don't say anything uhhuh, the anger will just die on its own. 

[00:47:34] Eldar: Hmm. 

[00:47:34] DJ: But it doesn't, 

[00:47:35] Eldar: it doesn't, 

[00:47:36] DJ: it doesn't.

[00:47:36] It's more like, uh, 

[00:47:38] Eldar: uhhuh. 

[00:47:38] DJ: It gets pent up. It gets 

[00:47:40] Eldar: What are you angry about? 

[00:47:42] DJ: Nothing in particular. I'm just saying if I disagree or if someone's fucking stupid and I have to deal with them. Yeah. Like, I'm just like, uh, 

[00:47:50] Eldar: oh, instead of voicing it, you just kind of bottom 

[00:47:52] Katherine: Oh, I'm the same way. You just keep it in.

[00:47:54] Eldar: You just keep it in. Yeah, 

[00:47:55] DJ: exactly. 

[00:47:56] Eldar: But internally you become angry and maybe resentful be more 

[00:47:58] DJ: annoyed, resentful, 

[00:47:59] Eldar: more annoyed. Annoyed with anything. 

[00:48:01] DJ: But it's better than, 'cause I don't have tact is why I'm doing that. Ah, because, because like I can be seen as very, I guess I used to be aggressive just naturally or very, 

[00:48:11] Mike: yeah, 

[00:48:12] DJ: I guess, 

[00:48:12] Mike: yeah.

[00:48:13] DJ: So I kind of. I've learned to die. Well, in the past I've learned to die that down. 

[00:48:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:48:18] DJ: By doing that. 

[00:48:19] Mike: Okay. 

[00:48:19] DJ: Like, not saying as much. 

[00:48:20] Mike: You guys went to a different thing. I missed No, no, no. I just, I just wanted an example from dj. Is he practicing Twine to take until you make it thing? Mm-hmm. And he gave his example.

[00:48:29] DJ: Yeah. My example is like me trying to be a better communicator by not speaking as much. 

[00:48:35] Eldar: Yeah. Because he wasn't a good communicator and at times when he did communicate right, he would get angry or frustrated. Yeah. He was coming off a certain way. So he is like, oh, I don't want to get frustrated and angry.

[00:48:42] Mm-hmm. So I'll just bot like, I'll just not talk. Mm-hmm. You know? But that didn't work, he said, so 

[00:48:47] DJ: Yeah. It helped a little bit, I guess is certain 

[00:48:49] Eldar: you can do fake news to get good things. Yeah. To 

[00:48:53] DJ: get, yeah. I don't think that's the way 

[00:48:55] Toliy: one popular prob pop. Probably like, um, topic where this happens a lot is probably like entrepreneurship and stuff, right?

[00:49:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:04] Toliy: You know, just like anyone can obviously just, you know, buy a business or own like be anybody 

[00:49:08] Eldar: online 

[00:49:08] Toliy: Yeah. Or be anybody online. 

[00:49:10] Eldar: Yeah. You know, but that's the thing. Like you are, I would think that the, the phrase has to start with definitions. First of all, what are you faking? Right? Well, I would say identity, right?

[00:49:19] To some degree. 

[00:49:20] Katherine: Yeah. 

[00:49:20] Eldar: And then making it, what, what is the definition of making it? 

[00:49:23] Toliy: Oh, people could fake. Well, you don't even have confidence. Make it. Right. If you just, like, if someone's like, what do you do? Ju ju just like, think about this word and what perception it has. Mm-hmm. If someone says, what do you do?

[00:49:34] And they're like, oh, they, they say I'm an accountant. 

[00:49:39] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:39] Toliy: And they say, uh, well, what do you do? And they say. I'm an entrepreneur. 

[00:49:44] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:47] Toliy: Off the bat, doesn't matter where that person is in the process, whether they're an idiot completely. Yeah. Or they have anything or nothing. 

[00:49:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:54] Toliy: When the accountant hears that that person's an entrepreneur, yeah.

[00:49:58] Automatically there's a psychological feeling that goes into place where like, oh wow, that's cool. 

[00:50:04] Katherine: But it's 

[00:50:04] Toliy: also such a bigs it so broad. Yeah. They automatically start to revere you. 

[00:50:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:09] Toliy: Without even knowing anything, like 

[00:50:10] Eldar: whether or 

[00:50:10] Toliy: not you're, they're not saying that like, Hey, like yeah, I'm actually like, you know, been failing at trying to build a business for like five years or like super, like no one's saying that.

[00:50:19] They're just saying, I'm entrepreneur. I'm an entrepreneur. Or they say, if someone says I'm an investor, for example, those words make people feel holy particular ways. Right. 

[00:50:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:29] Toliy: Without knowing any details about 

[00:50:31] Eldar: it. Yeah. There you go. You never have to define it. 

[00:50:32] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like you could just right now open up an LLC and actually build no business.

[00:50:38] And you're forever an entrepreneur, right? 

[00:50:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:40] DJ: Hey, you're looking at an entrepreneur right here, baby. 

[00:50:42] Eldar: Yeah. You definitely ain't faking it here. You can make it can fake it out there, but you can't fake it here, dj, 

[00:50:48] Toliy: you know? But 

[00:50:49] Eldar: we're gonna ask the receipts 

[00:50:50] Toliy: sometimes intentionally and sometimes un unintentionally tho those words.

[00:50:54] Yeah. In just society. Yeah. They have grown to mean things. Yeah. Investor, entrepreneur. 

[00:50:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:59] Toliy: Right. Yeah. Or or if you could just say, I'm a consultant. Yeah. Any of those 

[00:51:03] Katherine: words. Well, because of the success. Yes. You're talking in society's language. 

[00:51:07] Toliy: Yes. What 

[00:51:07] Katherine: people are 

[00:51:07] Toliy: understanding, they carry particular things.

[00:51:10] Mm-hmm. And they're the ultimate, I think like those, those probably have the most amounts of fake it till you make it scenarios. 

[00:51:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:16] Toliy: Because, yeah. 

[00:51:18] Eldar: How about this, how about this case? Forget about, um, status or whatever. How do you feel about where, uh, neuroscientists, Catherine said a neuro neurodivergence?

[00:51:27] I don't know. She said, uh, I said ai. She said, uh, that, uh, because our brain can't tell the difference, right? So if we could just keep telling our brain that we're happy, it'll just soon believe that it's happy and it'll just work that you are happy. Is that possible? Um, or like, I'm not an alcoholic, for example.

[00:51:46] You can tell Right. Julius's example, right? 

[00:51:48] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:51:48] Eldar: Somebody mentioned it on the things that you could just, just tell yourself that you're not an alcoholic. Mm-hmm. Tell yourself that you're successful or whatever. Right. Sooner or later you'll believe it. And you'll not be an alcoholic anymore. 

[00:51:57] Toliy: Well, yeah. So like.

[00:52:00] You could just have like, take it till 

[00:52:01] Eldar: you make it. 

[00:52:01] Toliy: Yeah. You could just be like an impostor, you know? 

[00:52:05] Eldar: So would you have to create a different I, uh, identity or be an actor? 

[00:52:08] Toliy: Yeah. Well, 

[00:52:09] Eldar: in order for this to work or is, can this actually physically, uh, uh, manifest itself? 

[00:52:13] Toliy: Yeah. Well, I feel like, yeah, everyone is always creating, I think different like, uh, illusions, manifestations, illusions, illusions for themselves, uhhuh, and to that person, it's the, it, it could be like eventually it could be the, the, uh, truth.

[00:52:28] Mike: Yeah. But like, uh, yeah. Like, but fake it till you make, it means you have to get to where you're going. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:52:33] Toliy: No, 

[00:52:33] Mike: not based on what reality. Yeah. You have to get there. Say, you know what, I'm a millionaire. 

[00:52:37] Toliy: You don't have to make it, you just said fake it till you make it. Until it, you might never make it.

[00:52:42] So you never, you're still in the till phase. 

[00:52:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:44] Toliy: You know? Right. 

[00:52:45] Mike: Yeah. You're right. You never, 

[00:52:46] Toliy: you don't have to actually make it. 

[00:52:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:48] Toliy: There, there's 

[00:52:48] Mike: some people saying you can't actually make it. 

[00:52:50] Eldar: You can, Mike's saying is you can never make it in a good thing. 

[00:52:53] Mike: You can not do anything good in that with that, like, that phrase, fake it till you make it can never be used for good.

[00:52:59] Toliy: Well, 

[00:52:59] Mike: it can only be used for bad. 

[00:53:00] Toliy: Well, I, yeah, but I think it, it, it, it, it can be used. I think, um, you could start out that way, but I think that like, if you learn particular lessons along the way mm-hmm. I think that you can, you, you do have a chance I think to, 

[00:53:14] Mike: but then you're not fak it. You're not faking it.

[00:53:16] Toliy: But you were first faking it until 

[00:53:17] Katherine: you, until you reach. But 

[00:53:19] Mike: no, but what are you faking it? You would have to, we have to define this. Yeah. 

[00:53:21] Toliy: Well, no, you were once faking it until you realized more information. You no longer, 

[00:53:26] Mike: but the only time that you, like, you could have been faking an entrepreneur for 20 years.

[00:53:29] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:53:30] Eldar: Right. But until you said, yo, actually I'm fake now. No, I a second with, with the, the example of entrepreneur is very difficult one. Just 'cause like, 'cause we can open a web. Okay. We can, we can buy a domain and we're an entrepreneur. No. Yeah. Like when does entrepreneur becomes an entrepreneur. 

[00:53:41] Toliy: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:42] Eldar: Yeah. Never at a LLC. 

[00:53:44] Toliy: Never. Or 

[00:53:45] Eldar: at a website. 

[00:53:45] Toliy: As soon as you own something, 

[00:53:47] Eldar: or as soon as I buy a, what's his name? Uh, a buy a pen. Tell us, I'll buy a pen because I, or a Luc Leaf paper because I need to write some stuff down. It's a very open ended example. 

[00:53:56] DJ: Definitely. But, uh, 

[00:53:57] Eldar: or do you need to write a, a elaborative business plan?

[00:54:00] Like when do you become an entrepreneur? 

[00:54:02] DJ: I think you gotta have a certain cash flow. Not meaning you gotta, 

[00:54:06] Eldar: the word entrepreneur means you just started a business, I guess. I'm not really sure what the finish. So, so then that's not faking it. Yeah. 

[00:54:11] Toliy: You, you don't have to profit. 

[00:54:13] Eldar: That doesn't apply. Like 

[00:54:14] Toliy: Uber doesn't 

[00:54:15] DJ: profit Exactly what I was gonna say.

[00:54:16] You 

[00:54:16] Toliy: gotta have say dollars. You, you don't profit. 

[00:54:18] Eldar: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'm sure that those people, whoever started Uber, they consider themselves entrepreneurs 

[00:54:23] Toliy: and successful ones. 

[00:54:24] Eldar: Successful one. Right. Successful. Even though they, they, yeah, they're constantly in debt. 

[00:54:28] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:54:28] Eldar: It's crazy. So, yeah. I'm not sure about this.

[00:54:31] Fake it till you make it stuff too. I think I'm gonna lean towards Mike without really, um, dissecting it further. 

[00:54:37] DJ: Mm-hmm. 

[00:54:37] Eldar: Mm-hmm. That like anything faking it is impossible to then get something. 

[00:54:41] DJ: I was just throwing it out there. I wasn't saying that's the case in vis I was throwing it 

[00:54:44] Eldar: out there. No, no, it's a good one.

[00:54:45] It's, it's, it's a very, it's a very interesting thing because especially as people, a lot of people believe in this, that like, you could just tell your brain that you're happy and then the brain becomes happy. 

[00:54:53] Toliy: Well, a big concept is what is vi is like visualization. 

[00:54:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:57] Toliy: We talk about, right? 

[00:54:57] Eldar: Yeah. Vision boards.

[00:54:58] Toliy: Yeah. Like vi visualization, right? Like 

[00:55:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:01] Toliy: You're, you have to, to they like, like a lot of people, people will say that like, if you wanna get something, you have to visualize it, for example. Right. You have to see yourself of 

[00:55:11] Eldar: reminders. Yeah. 

[00:55:12] Toliy: Yeah. Like, yeah. I don't know. 

[00:55:15] Eldar: You don't buy it? 

[00:55:16] Toliy: I personally No, 

[00:55:18] Eldar: babe, you buy this.

[00:55:20] I 

[00:55:20] Katherine: have a vision board. There's, there's this one guy, he's, um, 

[00:55:23] Eldar: well, we'll talk about your vision board in a second. My 

[00:55:25] Katherine: friend, he's a, he's like a coach. Like I heard. He's, he's, he coaches people on neuroscience vision board in one second. I don't know. His name is, 

[00:55:32] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:55:33] Katherine: Part 

[00:55:33] Eldar: me. 

[00:55:35] Katherine: So I don't know. 

[00:55:39] Mike: I don't actually know, 

[00:55:41] Katherine: but I, there's an example here and I wanted to say, I don't know, like my, my thought that this 

[00:55:45] Eldar: just vague shit don't fly with me.

[00:55:48] You know what I mean? 

[00:55:49] Katherine: I think, I think there's a lot of, 

[00:55:50] Eldar: to, to me it's like, 

[00:55:51] Katherine: um, there's a lot of power that we have in a locked inside there, and a lot of times, like our self-talk or like what, what we believe or what we tell ourselves. I think thereselves 

[00:55:59] Eldar: an explanation for everything. 

[00:56:01] Katherine: Mm. 

[00:56:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:56:02] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I just feel that like the, the, the thing with thing with, with visualization is that like, look, I visualize many things.

[00:56:09] Eldar: Yeah. I mean, I think we all do. 

[00:56:11] Toliy: Yeah. Like, 

[00:56:11] Eldar: you even manifested something. 

[00:56:12] Toliy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, try to Yeah. Manifest. Yeah. Like, 

[00:56:15] Eldar: are you gonna tell people about how you turned yogurt into fish that one time? 

[00:56:19] Toliy: Yeah. You know what? 

[00:56:21] Eldar: You don't know this. I 

[00:56:22] DJ: don't. 

[00:56:22] Eldar: Alright, we'll talk about that. Those are for the Paton subscribers.

[00:56:26] Yeah. 

[00:56:26] Toliy: Patreon, Patriot. 

[00:56:27] Eldar: They're non-existent, but they exist in our mind. 

[00:56:30] Toliy: Yeah. Like, maybe we can call '

[00:56:31] Katherine: em to, to 

[00:56:32] Toliy: subscribe. Yeah. The, the, the main issue I personally have with I guess the visualization stuff. Mm-hmm. Right? Is that like, I think it's very difficult to see something or predict something without knowing something, you know?

[00:56:45] And I feel like, yeah, to a certain degree in visualization there's a certain like, um, like blindness that has to 

[00:56:52] Eldar: occur. 

[00:56:53] Toliy: Yeah. Well, well it has to be, be present. 'cause you wouldn't be visualizing something that you already are. 

[00:56:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:56:58] Toliy: For example, right? 

[00:56:59] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:56:59] Toliy: But, um, you, um, you, uh, um, yeah, like you, you, you have to subscribe to some sort of blindness, but then you also have to see something that like, it, like, it's like.

[00:57:16] It's very difficult, I think, to forecast or to see something that you haven't yet like done or like, you know, like Ben, you know, 

[00:57:22] Mike: I think we, maybe, maybe, um, I think the visualization problem with the visualization, uh, from, based on what you're saying, my thought was the visualization is not like, Hey, I want to make a dollar or $20 or a hundred dollars, a thousand dollars.

[00:57:36] You wanna make a million and, or I don't wanna lose, I don't wanna lose one pound. I wanna lose a hundred pounds. The problem with the visualization, the focus on the end on a huge, big goal, which never you can draw energy from. Most of the time, sorry, I don't wanna say back. Never. But most of the time you can't draw energy from, but what you need to draw energy from is the small wins, the small details, changes, details.

[00:57:57] The visualization of like, you know what? I want to visualize it tomorrow. I'm gonna make better choice for myself. I'm gonna eat cleaner. Not fucking for the next six months is my plan. Or start, I'm gonna start saving money now for fucking 

[00:58:08] DJ: breakfast 

[00:58:09] Mike: one year. I'm gonna start saving money tomorrow. And that's it.

[00:58:11] That's my whole goal. One day at a time. And I think, 

[00:58:15] Toliy: yeah. The issue with that is that like, I think that pe people just don't, they, they can't, they can't do do something without having something that, that's like far out reach. Grandiose. Oh yeah, yeah. Far out. Oh no, that's, that's the problem. Start, that's the problem.

[00:58:29] You, you, you know, people might feel like they need to visualize, vi, visualize or see something because like Yeah. Like they can't just say, I'm gonna lose one pound. 

[00:58:36] Eldar: No, I think there's nothing wrong 

[00:58:37] Katherine: with this. I think it's about possibility. 

[00:58:39] Eldar: Uh, listen, I 

[00:58:40] Katherine: I, if you don't think it's possible for yourself 

[00:58:42] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:58:42] Katherine: And you believe that it's probably not gonna happen for you, truly, but if you at least give yourself that hope or that possibility that, you know what, if I dedicate myself like this is possible, 

[00:58:52] Toliy: no, but possibility, I think and hope are, you know, are, are to, to me, to two very different, different things. I think that like you can have a may, maybe somewhat of a grasp of what is possible without like, buying into the visualization of you, of you like doing it or like, hope.

[00:59:09] Katherine: But don't you think they go hand in hand, like visualizing it? You gotta be 

[00:59:12] Eldar: very 

[00:59:12] Toliy: careful 

[00:59:12] Eldar: with those two. 

[00:59:13] Katherine: Yeah. No, but like, doesn't, doesn't that mean that you can consider a possibility with it? 

[00:59:18] Toliy: Well, well, no. So hope is like a non, like a 

[00:59:21] Mike: hope. Is 

[00:59:21] Toliy: that Yeah. Hope. Hope, hope is like a non logical scenario. 

[00:59:26] Katherine: No, I'm talking about possibility.

[00:59:29] Visualization. 

[00:59:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:59:30] Katherine: Right. Like, don't you think that they, there's a link there, like there is, if you can imagine it or visualize it, then that means you think it could be possible. 

[00:59:37] Eldar: Well, there's a possibility there. Well, I can visualize right now a pink unicorn with a eyebrows, you know, like I can visualize it probably in my head.

[00:59:43] Okay. But doesn't mean it's 

[00:59:44] Katherine: possible saying we're talking about things that are actually like, no, 

[00:59:46] Eldar: no, no, no, no. You, that can happen. 

[00:59:46] Katherine: That's, 

[00:59:47] Eldar: that's the biggest problem though. 

[00:59:48] Katherine: We're not talking about a, 

[00:59:49] Eldar: that's the biggest problem. People with two left feet think they can be NBA players and, you know what I'm saying?

[00:59:54] Katherine: Oh, sure. But then, like, just happens. 

[00:59:55] Eldar: That's 

[00:59:55] Katherine: completely got 

[00:59:56] Eldar: a different problem. 

[00:59:56] Katherine: Like if you're talking about things that just can't exist, thens 

[00:59:58] Eldar: totally. No, no, no. But a lot of this is what happens that a person will say, I want a million dollars. I want to be this conglomerate entrepreneur. But there are so many variables that are gonna need to be take place in order for that to happen.

[01:00:11] Mm. And unfortunately, we don't actually account for those variables when we do those visualization practices. People 

[01:00:17] Mike: not taking into account 

[01:00:18] Eldar: Yes. The factors that to make something possible. Yeah. You know? So they create this impossible unicorn in their minds. Yeah. And they never get there. Yeah. That they didn't, that's why they didn't visualize it properly and they didn't do what you just said.

[01:00:31] Uh, imagine and understood the possibilities of all those things. Yeah. And, and a lot of times you'll say, oh, 

[01:00:35] Katherine: see, I 

[01:00:35] Eldar: see. I'm 

[01:00:36] Katherine: looking at it totally different. But 

[01:00:37] Eldar: I, I understand saying I gotta go to school for eight years. I don't have any money. No. Oh wait, I'm actually, I'm actually, I'm, I'm actually in the middle of, I don't know, a jungle, or I'm in Africa where there's no schools and I have to walk 10 hours.

[01:00:50] You know what I mean? Like, 

[01:00:51] Toliy: no. But the person who's, who's visualizing. They have an internal feeling that, like, for example, like they could, they, they see themselves doing this, but there, there's plenty of times where someone who's actually done it, they actually see you as that purple, uh, unicorn. 

[01:01:05] Eldar: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:05] Toliy: Yeah. They, they see you as like, you have no chance and you're completely, far away, but you feel that you like Yeah. Couple of years. You're right there. So they're viewing you as that like, completely unrealistic thing because like they've been there, they've done that, they know the challenges, they know like what it takes.

[01:01:23] Right. But you think, but you don't have that same per perception 

[01:01:27] Katherine: mm-hmm. 

[01:01:27] Toliy: Of it because it involves you. I think the, the moment that, that, that visualization, um, when, when you bring you as like an element in, into it, your judgment is clouded and you have no clue as to who you are to begin with. So how can you visualize, like, 

[01:01:43] Eldar: so you could be like a, something 

[01:01:45] Toliy: about yourself.

[01:01:45] Eldar: You could, you could, you could just keep putting noodles on your own head by being this optimistic little Oscar, you 

[01:01:50] Toliy: know? 

[01:01:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:01:51] Toliy: Yeah. '

[01:01:51] Eldar: cause 

[01:01:51] Toliy: you're 

[01:01:51] Eldar: a 

[01:01:51] Toliy: judge. The executioner, like the, 

[01:01:54] Eldar: uh, yeah. Let's, let's 

[01:01:56] Katherine: talk about his vision board now. It's, it's so interesting because a real like example, if you're too optimistic and not realistic, it doesn't go well for you.

[01:02:03] Eldar: Well, no. 

[01:02:03] Katherine: That 

[01:02:04] Eldar: could be 

[01:02:04] Katherine: detrimental to you. But this actually can be very useful for people who are very negative and, and, and have a really hard time. Yes. 

[01:02:09] Eldar: But you have to be careful 

[01:02:10] Katherine: building up. There's caveats on both sides. Yeah. So it's like visualization can help a very negative person who doesn't see anything for themselves.

[01:02:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:19] Katherine: I don't know. Like, 

[01:02:19] Eldar: well, I think that they, they're both sides of the spectrum. Yeah. Right. Bad spectrum one is like hyper like, oh shit, we're about to fucking get paid. You know? But also, 

[01:02:27] Katherine: like, I, I guess you guys are only looking at it in an entrepreneur entrepreneurial way. No, no, no. It doesn't matter what it is I was talking about like in anything, you know, in 

[01:02:33] Eldar: any, 

[01:02:34] Toliy: I'm, I'm definitely looking at it in, 

[01:02:35] Katherine: in, 

[01:02:35] Toliy: in, in any way, but I 

[01:02:37] Katherine: feel 

[01:02:38] Toliy: like that, 

[01:02:38] Katherine: that example is true.

[01:02:38] I, I find that this might be better than having a, a negative mindset that that's only forefront for me because I'm very negative. So for me, it helps me combat my, my other extreme, which is negativity, you know? Well, that's the 

[01:02:51] Eldar: thing. You, you, yeah. It's if you're combat one extreme with the other Yes. With the other.

[01:02:54] Katherine: Yeah. But I'm not saying that like I visualize all the time. I'm just saying that like in one area of my life 

[01:02:59] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:02:59] Katherine: I find that like, this has actually helped me see things a little bit more positively and not just see it as doom and gloom, you know? Yeah. But if it's, 

[01:03:07] Mike: but if it's just like a, a foolish, kinda like, but it's also 

[01:03:10] Yeah.

[01:03:10] Toliy: It might not be 

[01:03:11] Mike: even you, you're not, see the thing is the problem I, that I think is the problem is it's not that, that what you're describing is not the source that is just a response to explain that what's actually happening. Like, you're not, people are not just like negative, just, oh, I'm just negative and this is who I am.

[01:03:28] Yes, yes. They don't just get there. You don't just arrive to this destination of negativity. 

[01:03:32] DJ: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:32] Mike: The choices that you make in your life day to day mm-hmm. Leads you to feeling the certain way about it. Actually, this is what I was, you know, telling other about. But yeah, everybody gets to where they got.

[01:03:43] For a reason. Like you didn't just land in this negativity thing, 

[01:03:46] Eldar: but she's under the impression that she did. 

[01:03:48] Mike: Yes. 

[01:03:48] Eldar: That Oh, I was 

[01:03:49] Katherine: just a negative person. Yeah. I'm still talking about health, because health has always been something that like, I, I started to just believe. Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:03:55] Katherine: I just believed it. I was just like, oh, okay.

[01:03:57] Yeah. Like, no, but you didn't just believe it. I'm just not like you. 

[01:03:59] Toliy: You, you had, 

[01:04:00] Katherine: this doesn't work for me. 

[01:04:01] Toliy: Reasons. Right. Like you had reasons as to why you believed it. 

[01:04:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:04:05] Katherine: Yes. 

[01:04:05] Eldar: You don't '

[01:04:06] Katherine: cause in my mind, yes, yes, of course. '

[01:04:08] Eldar: cause you had doubts and you had Yes. You had doubts and aspirations from the other negative side where you said, wait a second, is this actually true?

[01:04:14] You know what I mean? And I've been challenging you for a very long time. I know. Yeah. And now you've been challenging yourself to say like, yes, 

[01:04:18] Katherine: that's exactly where I'm at right now. 

[01:04:19] Eldar: And I don't, I don't think that's necessarily just, you just, I'm way less 

[01:04:22] Katherine: negative. Take 

[01:04:22] Toliy: visualization. Yeah. 

[01:04:23] Eldar: That just visual.

[01:04:24] It's, it's actually like, no, 

[01:04:25] I 

[01:04:25] Katherine: know. It's 

[01:04:25] Toliy: challenges that it's challenging the, the actual reasons as to why you're very negative 

[01:04:28] Eldar: in the first way, the root of what Mike is saying. 

[01:04:31] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But I I, I, I do agree that, that, that the other, the other route, radical route is this like, kind of like al almost like fool foolish, like, uh, optimism without like reason, like opt optimism without R reason.

[01:04:46] I think it creates the same That fool in a different way. 

[01:04:49] Katherine: Fool too. Yeah. Yeah. That's also just 

[01:04:50] Toliy: foolishness, 

[01:04:50] Katherine: but 

[01:04:51] Toliy: also, 

[01:04:51] Katherine: you know, but it's, 

[01:04:51] Toliy: yeah. But I, I, I, I don't think it's good to use one to get yourself out of the other one. 'cause it's just 

[01:04:56] Katherine: like, yeah. No, I, I'm not saying that you, that anybody should, 

[01:04:58] Toliy: yeah.

[01:04:59] You know? Yeah. Because, because it's almost like a, uh, like a buy now, pay later you're gonna 

[01:05:03] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:05:03] Toliy: You know, get yourself out of this now. Yeah. But then you're creating another illusion, 

[01:05:07] Katherine: like on the backend. Yeah. It's just, to me, the, the way I, I have experienced it. I find one way more negative than the other for myself though.

[01:05:15] But I'm also not, 

[01:05:16] Toliy: but that's your judgment call, 

[01:05:16] Katherine: not having this like 

[01:05:17] Toliy: Yeah. That's a judgment call 

[01:05:18] Katherine: though. Also, like extreme optimism thing. I'm, I'm not experiencing 

[01:05:22] Toliy: that. No, but I feel like that, that that may not be what's actually happening. Like, it, it No, I understand. It might be that like you actually just associate that way.

[01:05:29] Mm-hmm. But you might actually just instead, I mean, I, I I think you are, you're actually using logic and reason to not be negative and not optimism. Correct. 

[01:05:39] Katherine: Correct. 

[01:05:40] Eldar: And I think that that started with therapy. 

[01:05:42] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:05:42] Eldar: You know what I mean? Where a person 

[01:05:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:05:44] Eldar: Is able to break everything down and say like, what are you thinking?

[01:05:46] How do you thinking it? And why? And you couldn't find the answers to it. 

[01:05:49] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:05:49] Eldar: And when you came, oh, you don't understand. I'm just negative. Well explain that. Mm-hmm. And slowly you found the words, able to finally express yourself for explain your condition. And those were the reasons. And then you finally said, oh wait, I have a choice in the matter.

[01:06:03] Well, lemme try different things. And you started trying different methods and different things and you started applying. And one of those techniques I think you've found is trying to be more positive. 

[01:06:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:06:11] Eldar: But I don't necessarily think that's gonna get you out of the hole, you know? 

[01:06:15] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:06:17] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:06:18] It's more of like a, um, like a delaying 

[01:06:21] Eldar: of the Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, I think that I. The connecting of the dots of actually understanding who you are, uh, knowing why you are, and then empowering yourself to be what you need to be. And everything is finally together is what breeds final confidence.

[01:06:38] Mike, we always talk about that. You actually finally got the confidence to see like, oh shit. Like I'm about that life. Like I know who I am, I know why I'm here. And this is not just some like optimistic or fake it till you make it. Like you can explain 

[01:06:50] Toliy: it. 

[01:06:51] Eldar: You can explain it. Yeah. 

[01:06:52] Toliy: You could explain how you got there and why this is happening.

[01:06:54] Mm-hmm. Or why this is not not happen, 

[01:06:55] Eldar: versus just like, oh no, I was just kinda like, you know, every morning I was waking up and I was telling the mirror 

[01:07:00] Katherine: it's not by accident, 

[01:07:01] Eldar: you know what I mean? The like positive information 

[01:07:04] Toliy: there's of like, I def I definitely have an ick towards like the mantras, for example.

[01:07:07] Eldar: Well, yeah. I know. I, and I know why we've been saying 

[01:07:09] Toliy: this. Yeah. 

[01:07:10] Eldar: You know? 

[01:07:11] Toliy: Yeah. You know, like, um, yeah. I just feel that like, um, 1, 1, 1 thing I think that also happens like in this process in in general is like, even if you do improve, it's important to figure out why you're improving. And I think oftentimes you might attribute it towards like, 

[01:07:31] Eldar: and this is why we're gonna segment to Mike's thing.

[01:07:34] Toliy: Okay. 

[01:07:35] Eldar: Where Mike actually has a hard time sometimes, uh, attributing the two, the connection or at least giving himself some, sometimes props where he did accomplish something, he saw the results, he's happy with the results, but he can't extract enough good from it in order to finally like calcify it or solidify it.

[01:07:51] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:53] Eldar: Yeah. Mike. 

[01:07:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:07:55] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:07:57] Mike: So that's another issue. Yeah. 

[01:07:58] Toliy: Well, what what's an example of that, 

[01:08:00] Mike: Mike? Um,

[01:08:06] I think I, I mean, I don't give myself, like, even in the, in the climbing stuff, I don't give myself enough credit and I don't believe in myself enough in the things that I can't do. And my initial response is to not believe that I can't do them. And then when I do do them and I'm like, oh, that was not hard.

[01:08:23] Toliy: But how do you, how do you know that you don't give yourself enough red? 

[01:08:28] Mike: Well, because my initial 

[01:08:29] Eldar: thing is like, oh, I can't do this. He's negative. 

[01:08:31] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:33] Eldar: The automatic response is like, I can't do this. It's just too hard. Like, scared, scared. I'm fear, fear, fear, fear based, always fear-based responses. 

[01:08:40] Toliy: And, and, and what's the, the reason for it?

[01:08:42] Like what's, what's the reason for that? Kind 

[01:08:44] Mike: of the negative self-talk? The negative self-talk. Yeah. The many years of staying away from competition in, in sports, staying away from challenging myself in sports, uh, not participating. Like you not being able to focus fully because of the fear of losing.

[01:09:02] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So when it does come across certain wins, you can't even attribute them properly. You can't associate them properly. Back reroute back to the fact that like it's, he's actually working on himself. He's trying to put himself out there and be a little bit more competitive, be a little bit more, you know, with umph.

[01:09:20] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:21] Eldar: You know, showing up for himself. Uh, in order to finally kind of be a little bit more confident. But he's having a hard time rerouting that back to that 

[01:09:30] Mike: because the years of trying to do this is very small compared to the 30 years of the opposite. I mean, it's a ti I guess it's a time thing, 

[01:09:38] Eldar: which I think is Catherine's struggling too with because of the way she's speaking.

[01:09:41] Mm-hmm. When she said, oh, I can relate to the fake it till I make it, you see that? Right. She's raising her hand and saying that, look, this is my example. She starts talking about the example. Well like what were you faking? But she associated that with faking it. 

[01:09:52] Mike: Yes. Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:53] Eldar: And that's a, that's what you're talking about always, is that at the end, if you can't explain it properly, if you don't understand the, the causality of the situation, what did you learn?

[01:10:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:10:01] Katherine: I think also 

[01:10:01] Eldar: not power think also 

[01:10:02] Katherine: made misunderstood. Like, that's not something that I use in my life, you know, like that. 

[01:10:07] Eldar: Well, no, but you, no, when, when, when it was said, you think clearly like you, like I relate to this because this is what I do. You raise your 

[01:10:12] Katherine: hand. Well, no, I'm aware of, of what it is.

[01:10:15] People talk about it. Yeah. I've spoken about it with my therapist, you know, and you like one time like fake it. But it's not like something that I like use in my everyday life to, to, you know, not, no. 

[01:10:26] Eldar: I think in your case, example examples of you bettering yourself and becoming better now, 

[01:10:30] Katherine: health? No, I've taken actionable steps.

[01:10:31] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:10:32] Katherine: That I've been very mindful about. For me particularly. Yes. 

[01:10:35] This 

[01:10:35] Eldar: is not fake 

[01:10:35] Katherine: it till you make a situation. You've been doing this for a while. I can't sit here and say that that's not gonna work for someone. For someone it might, you know, 

[01:10:41] Toliy: well, what, what, what, what's not gonna work 

[01:10:44] Katherine: for the fake it till you make it?

[01:10:45] Like, no, it's, it might work for somebody else, you know? No, 

[01:10:47] Eldar: I 

[01:10:47] Toliy: don't think it's possible. It's possible. How, how work. It's not possible work for someone. Knowing what you know now and like what you went through and what you did, how could you say that? Like, that's gonna work for someone else 

[01:10:57] Katherine: knowing 

[01:10:57] Eldar: what I want through.

[01:10:57] She just can't say it confidently. She doesn't wanna like, take it away. This little technique for someone like DJ for example, if he wants to use it, right. She just like, yo, just keep trying, faking it. 

[01:11:05] Katherine: Okay. So fake. I'll give you guys an example. 

[01:11:07] Eldar: Example. You wanted to give an example and you, 

[01:11:08] Katherine: and you guys decide whether like it's complete bullshit or not.

[01:11:11] Mm-hmm. But there's this girl, um, that I've seen online. She's a really successful entrepreneur, right? But she, um, talks about, um, how she was broke as a joke at like 2021. Didn't have a, a, you know, nothing like her, her mom was a criminal. She had like no leg to stand on. So she really had to like fight to where she is now.

[01:11:33] So she talks about all areas of her life. She, um, talks about like, for example, becoming, you know, fit how she is. For example, she's, she speaks about wanting to lose some weight and she said, what I did was she basically said she faked it till she made it. She said, what I started to do was I started. To dress like the people that went to the gym, like the people that go to the gym every day, what do they do?

[01:11:58] What are they wearing? What are they eating? And I started trying to, to think like them, like, okay, well if I'm a person that's in the gym and is, is is losing weight and like in fitness, like how would I eat? I wouldn't go and get myself a cheeseburger and fries. I would probably grab a salad. I would probably take better care of my nutrition, you know?

[01:12:17] And she said, and I started like on the days that I really didn't wanna go to the gym, I, I got myself up and I said, this is what a a, a fit person would do. And I still pushed myself. She started taking measurements and, and, and seeing the change of how pushing herself to go to the gym and eating better.

[01:12:34] Did you know? And so she said to till a certain point when I started like actually believing that like, oh, shoot, e everything that I'm doing is paying off. I started, I believed that, like, okay. And then it just became like a, like a habit, or it just became like a part of her life where she didn't have to fake it anymore.

[01:12:51] Like initially she had to fake it and now she's like, this is, it just became part of who I am and how I, I love fitness and I feel good about it and, you know, so what would you guys say? Like, let's, 

[01:13:03] Eldar: uh, you would have to define what, what was she faking? I, I'm not really sure what, like, in that example, what was, what was she faking?

[01:13:09] Yeah. Hmm. 

[01:13:10] Katherine: I guess it's, she was 

[01:13:11] Eldar: doing, 

[01:13:11] Katherine: I think she was, she had a strategy. So, so there's a thing like when you're inconsistent in the gym, uh, which I've dealt with. Uh, 

[01:13:17] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:13:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:13:17] Katherine: And then there's like consist like she 

[01:13:19] Eldar: still went to the gym and she 

[01:13:20] Katherine: still had a diet consistency in the gym. 

[01:13:22] Eldar: Now if you told me, if you told me, unless she was in the Yeah, you went, if she went to, 

[01:13:26] Katherine: unless she was what?

[01:13:27] Mike: In the metaverse. 

[01:13:28] Eldar: Alright, look, look, unless you told me this, 

[01:13:30] Mike: she's wearing 

[01:13:30] Eldar: a 

[01:13:30] Mike: sweatsuit. Hey. 

[01:13:31] Eldar: No. Unless you told me this. So she went to the gym and everybody was working out and she pretended like to work out. Yeah. So everybody was sweating, but she did not sweat. 

[01:13:41] Mike: She just pour water and stuff. 

[01:13:41] Eldar: Yes. And then she went to the, to the, to the, what's his name to the restaurant?

[01:13:45] How am I 

[01:13:45] Katherine: supposed to you this? 

[01:13:46] Eldar: Okay. Okay. She, she knew what she needed to order, but instead she was sneaking in some like crackers, muffins on the stuff, and then she lost weight. Then I'm like, yo, I 

[01:13:58] Mike: haven't, 

[01:13:59] Eldar: you know what I then I'm like, yo, she fucking baked 

[01:14:02] Mike: it and she made it 

[01:14:04] Eldar: more for other people, but she 

[01:14:05] Mike: lost the weight and she like got the following or whatever the stuff she was doing and she made it, but she didn't fake it yet.

[01:14:10] I have a, I have like an example, at least in my head it makes sense. Like, yeah, she definitely, I don't think she fake it till she make it. Yeah. But I'm gonna give an example. Maybe I think everybody can relate, uh. L like losing weight. Okay. Right. That's a very common example. People all trying to lose weight.

[01:14:28] Right. Faking it to you make it is coming to a friend, making an announcement saying, I'm gonna lose weight uhhuh, right? Like, you know, whatever we do 

[01:14:36] Eldar: goals, 

[01:14:36] Mike: whatever we do to, we say to other people, 

[01:14:39] Eldar: announcements. 

[01:14:39] Mike: Announcements, right? Like, we, in those moments, I, I think everybody, I, I'm not sure if everybody can agree, but I think it's pretty logical in those moments when we come and we say, you know, that's it.

[01:14:49] I'm going on a diet, I'm gonna go start eating healthy, I'm gonna start exercising, I'm gonna sleep. Right? Whatever it is that you have decided. And let, just so those things are accurate, those things are actually required to lose weight. You're correct about those. You went, you failed. That's faking it until you made it, which you obviously didn't make it like you faked it, but you didn't make it.

[01:15:12] Because, 

[01:15:13] Toliy: no, I feel like the, uh, the act of saying those things, like, I, like, I feel like it, it's like to, to me, like to fake it till you make it, it would, would be that like there's already a, uh, like you're knowingly lying, for example, about something that's already playing out, but you're, 

[01:15:30] Mike: yeah, you're not knowingly lying.

[01:15:31] You're, 

[01:15:32] Toliy: well, no. 

[01:15:32] Mike: Yeah. You believe it, but the truth is you're faking it. 

[01:15:35] Toliy: Well, no, but you're not faking it yet because you haven't 

[01:15:37] Mike: yet failed on it. Yeah, and the thing is, yeah, and you can, you can't, but you can't judge if the person made it until they already made it. And just like, you can't judge if they faked it until they actually fake it.

[01:15:46] That's why like, like, well, no, that's why I thought, 

[01:15:49] Toliy: I, I view it more if you're faking it to till you're making it, it's like you're a failing entrepreneur, but you're telling people that you're successful or that you're, but 

[01:15:56] Eldar: how do you make it 

[01:15:57] Toliy: what 

[01:15:58] Eldar: You 

[01:15:58] Toliy: never make it 

[01:15:58] Katherine: goal. I dunno. If you guys are defining it the way that like, it, it's like known for you, then that's a prop.

[01:16:06] Toliy: Making it the faking it is like, I 

[01:16:08] Katherine: think you 

[01:16:08] Toliy: guys, the action of you faking it in present time, the making it is that you, you are doing this. So you're doing something deceitful to stall to buy time. Did this woman 

[01:16:19] Eldar: exercise in the gym or did she not exercise in the gym? 

[01:16:22] Toliy: She exercised in the gym. 

[01:16:23] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:16:24] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:16:24] Eldar: So I, I'm not sure which part of faking it is is, is, is here. Well, 

[01:16:28] Toliy: well, 

[01:16:28] Eldar: yeah, if she did not listen, if she did not work out and she did not do the diet and she lost weight, then she fucking faked it and maked it. 

[01:16:35] Toliy: Well, I, I guess in, yes, in in Kat's example. She, she, how is that possible? The, the faking? It was the.

[01:16:41] Pretending to be a gym person before being a gym person. 

[01:16:44] Eldar: But how do you do that? Yeah. 

[01:16:45] Toliy: Before she actually, like, 

[01:16:47] Eldar: why, why she go into the gym? You can't just dress up as a gym person. Use yoga pants and you lose weight. 

[01:16:52] DJ: Yeah. You Well, 

[01:16:53] Eldar: wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 

[01:16:54] DJ: You could fake it. You could fake like you're going to the gym for sure.

[01:16:57] Sure. 

[01:16:57] Eldar: But I'll never make it, bro. 

[01:16:59] Mike: And that will never, 

[01:17:00] Eldar: I never seen anybody 

[01:17:01] DJ: might not 

[01:17:02] Eldar: go to the gym. You know what 

[01:17:03] DJ: I'm saying? What is making it, what is making it to that person though? 

[01:17:06] Eldar: Well, 

[01:17:06] DJ: there you go. Now we go into definitions and that's why we are here. Can say something for not exactly whatever action or task you're doing for that reason.

[01:17:14] I think 

[01:17:15] Mike: the faking it to you, making it, it can only be like from an observer. And after the fact, you can, in your, in your moment. Anybody who ever came and made an announcement, I'm gonna be a business owner, I'm gonna lose weight. I don't know millions of things, I'm gonna quit this, I'm gonna quit that. In that moment, people come, people in those moments when they make the decision, whether they announce it or not, they believe it.

[01:17:35] Toliy: Yeah. But they're not. But they're, but, but the act of like, like my, like, like the act of of, of faking it to, to, to me, it, it, it, it hasn't happened yet. When you made the, uh, the announcement to, to me, an example would be, yeah, 

[01:17:48] Eldar: what are you faking? I, I still don't, I have no example. Anybody, gimme an example.

[01:17:51] Toliy: I'll, I'll give you an example of fake faking it. I'll 

[01:17:54] DJ: give you an example. It may not be a good one, but it's an example. 

[01:17:56] Eldar: Okay. Doley. 

[01:17:59] Toliy: Oh, oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I can give mine. So it, like, for example, let's just say you live in Miami. 

[01:18:04] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:05] Toliy: Right? And, um, you, uh. You, you rent a Ferrari, 

[01:18:12] Eldar: I rent a Ferrari. 

[01:18:12] Toliy: Or you're using, or you're using someone that, that, you know, Ferrari?

[01:18:16] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Uhhuh. 

[01:18:16] Toliy: Right. 

[01:18:17] Eldar: Make an easy example to get some pussy or something. 

[01:18:20] Toliy: Like make it easy. Yeah. Yeah. To get girls or to get, or to have some kind of status. 

[01:18:24] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:18:24] Toliy: And you tell people that you are this, you're this person who's an owner of this. Like, this is my Ferrari. 

[01:18:30] Eldar: Okay. When do you make it? 

[01:18:31] Toliy: You're so the, the goal of you saying this, well, no.

[01:18:34] The goal of you, I'm So the goal of you saying this, what was the goal? 

[01:18:38] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:18:38] Toliy: The goal of you saying this is basically to do something that you are an imer 

[01:18:42] Eldar: uhhuh, 

[01:18:43] Toliy: but that you, you are, you're doing that to buy time to then actually be the Ferrari owner in the future. That's what you're doing. That's the idea of faking it till you're making it.

[01:18:56] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:18:57] Toliy: It's like renting right. Or borrowing, but but then deceiving others that this is actually you and who you are. 

[01:19:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:05] Toliy: Until you could get to a point where you actually are that person. That would be the objective of, of it. 

[01:19:11] Eldar: And nobody would ever find out. 

[01:19:13] Toliy: Yes. That's the thing. Nobody can find out.

[01:19:16] Eldar: Nobody can ever find out. 

[01:19:17] Toliy: No. 

[01:19:19] Eldar: I have to make it. That's 

[01:19:20] DJ: a good example. Think about what Mike said though, honestly, as we were, because that was gonna be my example too. Pretty much. 

[01:19:26] Toliy: Yeah. Which, which for example, in that, in the Miami scene? Yeah. Or like, you know, that's like a, like a thing that people do. Yeah.

[01:19:31] Is that they rent exotic cars. Mm-hmm. They pull up somewhere to try to be like, again, pretend to be a celebrity or some influencer or like something Yeah. Right. But they're actually not that person, but they actually have aspirations to be that person. 

[01:19:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:45] Toliy: Um, and they de deceive that. That's the faking part.

[01:19:49] Yeah. Is that, is that like you have to be actively telling people what's not, what, what not is 

[01:19:55] Eldar: true. 

[01:19:56] DJ: How about when Hillary Clinton pulls out like hot sauce on like the radio 

[01:20:01] Eldar: dj you on audio guy. Why are you grabbing the mic? Drop. 

[01:20:05] DJ: Drop the mic. It's cool. I'm not usually the performer. I'm sorry. 

[01:20:09] Eldar: Don't touch the mic.

[01:20:10] Yeah, 

[01:20:11] DJ: I'm touching the back. I'm touching the back. Yeah, 

[01:20:12] Eldar: but you hear it? 

[01:20:13] DJ: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. 

[01:20:14] Eldar: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:15] DJ: Uh, she pulls 

[01:20:17] Eldar: out a hot sauce. 

[01:20:18] DJ: Oh no. She was on one. Oh, what, what is that shit called? That radio station. Uh, the breakfast club? 

[01:20:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:20:23] DJ: You know, with Charlemagne and all that? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[01:20:25] And this is like during her political run, she posts out hot sauce and it's like, yeah, I have this every day on all my food in the morning. Oh, really? You know, the type of demographic is watching. Yeah. Black, like hot sauce. Hot sauce. So she's trying to, Stan, you 

[01:20:38] Mike: guys get, you guys give 

[01:20:39] it 

[01:20:39] Eldar: up that easy, 

[01:20:40] DJ: bro.

[01:20:40] I know. 

[01:20:42] Toliy: Do you or, or do, do you remember? Do, do you remember Kamala Harris was giving some speech and something like Southern like, oh, she was the most cringy 

[01:20:50] DJ: of everybody. 

[01:20:51] Toliy: She had a southern accent outta nowhere. That's like 

[01:20:53] DJ: faking it until you make it. She's a real prince. But they didn't make it, but 

[01:20:56] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:20:56] Yeah. 

[01:20:57] DJ: But that politicians fake it until they make 

[01:20:59] Toliy: it. You're, you're that deceiving others to make them believe something is true when, when it's not to buy time. 

[01:21:05] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:21:06] DJ: Politicians. Yeah, like a politician. So maybe Mike is right. Nothing virtuous can come from faking 

[01:21:13] Mike: until you make it. You cannot, cannot build a virtuous on a, on a lie if the foundation is a lie.

[01:21:18] Toliy: That's for sure. 

[01:21:18] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. But you can get some things. You can get some things, you can get somewhere. You can get some things you way 

[01:21:24] Toliy: you can lie, you can deceive 

[01:21:26] Mike: your way to act, act through it. Yeah. 

[01:21:28] Toliy: For only so. 

[01:21:29] DJ: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:29] Eldar: Yeah. Okay, fine. That's a good example for sure. 

[01:21:32] DJ: Yeah, that is. 

[01:21:33] Eldar: All right. So who's gonna do it?

[01:21:36] DJ: Do what? 

[01:21:36] Eldar: Fake it till you make you make dj. 

[01:21:39] DJ: I got nothing to really fake. 

[01:21:40] Eldar: See, okay. Yeah. It's, it's a easier example if you, it's not like, if it's like self-development. Mm-hmm. I don't see how that's possible. No, 

[01:21:47] DJ: no. 

[01:21:47] Eldar: Like, right. Yeah. 

[01:21:48] DJ: Yeah. I mean, eh, 

[01:21:50] Eldar: you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah. The work is the work and there's the work.

[01:21:53] DJ: Like yeah, the work is the work, but 

[01:21:55] Eldar: how can you lie to yourself? Explain to me, 

[01:21:58] Katherine: oh, ayahuasca. 

[01:22:01] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:22:01] Katherine: Those, that, those that claim that by going to South America somewhere 

[01:22:05] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:22:06] Katherine: And taking ayahuasca and throwing up and seeing hallucinations. 

[01:22:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:22:09] Katherine: That it's gonna change their life. That they're gonna change, or they're gonna get rid of addictions or, you know, instead of doing the work.

[01:22:15] Eldar: I think it, I think it's like a placebo, maybe. 

[01:22:16] Katherine: Yeah. More than I, I feel people actually feel like that, like, that's like the shortcut, that's, that's like taking the a, a pill, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Instead of doing like the real work and going to therapy and, and yeah. You know, like change, you know, actually taking actionable steps to change their lives.

[01:22:29] Toliy: How do you know that, that, that that's actually not true? 

[01:22:32] Katherine: What is not true? 

[01:22:33] Toliy: That like, if you actually do io s you own a. Change, change, all those things. 

[01:22:38] Katherine: I know three people that have done it. 

[01:22:39] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:22:40] Katherine: It's a small 

[01:22:40] Toliy: pool. 

[01:22:41] Katherine: It's a small pool, but 

[01:22:43] Eldar: the gig's up, the gig is up. 

[01:22:45] Katherine: You know, if you, if you wanna, if you wanna change, then like, you know, you gotta do, you gotta do, 

[01:22:51] Eldar: yeah.

[01:22:51] The problem with, the problem with that thing is it's like, it's 

[01:22:52] Toliy: very hard to track. Yeah. 

[01:22:54] Eldar: It's very hard to track. The 

[01:22:55] Katherine: outcomes was an experience was like two months change. You're not, you're not a transformed person. Like if you want a transformer, so you're gonna probably have to see a therapist and like do it, you know?

[01:23:03] Yeah. 

[01:23:04] Toliy: But how do you know that that person didn't actually do like, like that outcome didn't actually happen? Because, because like, you, you see it that like, didn't, didn't actually do what they said. Well, 

[01:23:14] Katherine: certain things don't align. I think, I think, I mean, maybe for some people are, are, are looking for answers or, or yeah.

[01:23:20] For some relief of their trauma, of their past. 

[01:23:23] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:23:24] Katherine: But you know, nothing, you know, the, the, the, the past is the past and the, you know that, that No, 

[01:23:29] but 

[01:23:29] Toliy: if they tell you like, Hey, you haven't done it, how do you know that? Like, this, this wouldn't work. 

[01:23:35] Katherine: I haven't done it. So like, how do I know it wouldn't work?

[01:23:37] Yeah. 

[01:23:38] Eldar: I think you're just testing your own journey here. 

[01:23:42] Katherine: Well, I'm telling you what I believe be Yeah. You know. 

[01:23:45] Toliy: No, no, but I'm saying were to say why do believe it? You never tried this. 

[01:23:49] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:23:49] Toliy: So how are you saying that you can't just do this and it's going to erase those traumas? Like, how can you confidently say that with, with, without trying those?

[01:23:56] Katherine: So in my experience, like, um, making change, like the changes that I've made, I've had to, you know, like. I've realized that certain values and certain things in my, my mind, like certain belief systems that I had were, were not serving me, were, were untrue. Right? So I have to unsubscribe from my own stuff.

[01:24:15] Mm-hmm. Uh mm-hmm. With guide, with proper guidance to, um, I guess rearranging my belief system and my values to like leading a better lifestyle for myself so I could be happier. Right. Yeah. I don't know if I'm describing that correctly. 

[01:24:29] DJ: Yeah. 

[01:24:29] Katherine: Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, you know, I've had to be sober, sober in my mind, uh, analyzing what's not working for me, what's going on with my relationships, why am I unhappy with this, what is, you know, um, having to make those changes and, and, you know, try every day.

[01:24:47] It's, it's, I've been doing this for years, what they would say, I don't think that I can go for a weekend or for a, a few weeks or a month and be under a hallucinogenic and, and think that this is going to re rearrange my, my life and the, the, my value systems that, that, that probably don't work for me. You know what I mean?

[01:25:04] But you 

[01:25:04] Toliy: don't know for sure, right. 

[01:25:05] Katherine: No, I can't speak like for sure, but 

[01:25:08] Toliy: because like, I don't think they would just have your doubts. I I also don't know for sure, but I have my doubts. Yeah. Like they would say like, Hey, like, 'cause you haven't done it, it actually gives you a completely different perspective where like you could actually see and feel different things that like you wouldn't be able 

[01:25:21] Katherine: to know normally if, if people that have, uh, taken Ayahuasca can confirm that like they don't suffer anymore.

[01:25:28] That, that, that they, they have zero suffering in their life. 

[01:25:32] DJ: Zero. 

[01:25:32] Katherine: If they can confirm that, that like, you know, everything is just perfect and then they don't have to do any, any work on themselves on ever, then shoot, that's something 

[01:25:42] Toliy: I would 

[01:25:42] Katherine: consider. 

[01:25:43] Toliy: My, my proof is like, yeah. Like I could never disprove that without actually like, um, like the people that I have known to, to do it and to say that it, it, it, it, um, 

[01:25:52] yeah.

[01:25:52] Toliy: It changed particular things about them. 

[01:25:54] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:25:54] Toliy: I don't see that change that they're talking about. 

[01:25:56] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:25:57] Toliy: Yeah. So be like that, that to me is like the, uh, like the, the low hanging proof. 

[01:26:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:26:03] Toliy: Is that I don't see you being the person that you said that 

[01:26:06] Eldar: I like it 

[01:26:06] Toliy: supposed 

[01:26:08] Eldar: to become, 

[01:26:09] Toliy: you know? 

[01:26:10] Eldar: Uh, Jojo said, tell Kat I don't agree.

[01:26:13] Katherine: Okay. 

[01:26:16] Eldar: Uh, I think Joel took Ayahuasca. He got over his ex. 

[01:26:19] Katherine: Oh, I find so like, uh, in the yogi space. Yeah. This is a really common conversation. Yeah. And I see how when some someone is talking about it, I see how right away everyone lights up and everyone is so interested and they're so curious. Mm-hmm. And you know, I've been asked many times like, oh, is that something you would consider?

[01:26:38] And I'm just like, no. Like, I mean, if I want to change myself for the better, like I'm gonna go to therapy and I'm gonna do the work myself. Yeah. This is like my life work here. I I, I don't think that anything that's my 

[01:26:50] Eldar: girl 

[01:26:50] Katherine: is going to change my life. Uh, you know, I, I just don't believe in that. I, I don't, I don't believe it, you know?

[01:26:55] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:26:56] Katherine: Also, I'm not a fan of not being in control. So like, I was never open to taking drugs and stuff like that, just because it's, it's a scary thing for me. Uh, so like, 

[01:27:05] Toliy: so you 

[01:27:05] Katherine: don't, that that's also my, just me personally. So, you know, 

[01:27:07] Toliy: you, you don't believe it because like, you actually believe that you need to do the work in order for, to have real change, right?

[01:27:13] Katherine: That, yes, that's my, that's 

[01:27:15] Toliy: my perspective. Right. But, but, but for example, but you do believe in, for example, like optimistic thinking. 

[01:27:23] Katherine: I negative think 

[01:27:24] Toliy: so. 

[01:27:24] Katherine: I don't know if I can say I believe it. You know, more like positive affirmations, 

[01:27:28] Toliy: right. Something Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because 

[01:27:29] Katherine: that, 

[01:27:30] Toliy: that to me is, is hand and as the equal.

[01:27:32] Katherine: Well, that's fine, because that's my point of view. Yeah. And that's your point of view. Yeah. Like, that's, that's totally fine. You know, I, I, I, I, I'm not gonna take that personal, I just think that for a person like myself, who in the past has been very closed-minded 

[01:27:45] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:27:46] Katherine: Opening up my mind a little bit to not being so rigid and not saying mm-hmm.

[01:27:50] Just life is X, y, Z, but just opening it up a little bit, um, yeah. I think has been interesting for me. However, perhaps not, not opening it to the, to the point of saying, I'm gonna go take ayahuasca and because I'm curious about it, that that's a little bit scary for me. You know, um, taking some unknown, unknown substance and then not really knowing where I'm gonna go with that.

[01:28:15] But I know that I can do the work. I can see a, a therapist and I could put in the work to actually get somewhere and, and change something about my life that I, that I, that I'm not happy with. 

[01:28:27] Eldar: That's an empowered person right there. Mm-hmm. 

[01:28:30] Toliy: Absolutely. Not an optimistic. 

[01:28:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:28:32] Toliy: You know? 

[01:28:32] Katherine: Yeah, sure. You know, but this, I, I see the interest that this has, and I'm just thinking like, if people had genuine, um, maybe like a genuine, um, 

[01:28:43] Eldar: well, Julius 

[01:28:44] also 

[01:28:44] Katherine: talked about that magic bullet in for self-help and becoming better or feeling better mm-hmm.

[01:28:48] Or dealing with some trauma in their past. Like, why isn't therapy as exciting? Like why is going to South American jungle? 

[01:28:55] Toliy: Well, why would you wanna suffer through like weeks or months or work? 

[01:28:58] Katherine: Yeah. I mean, I've therapy for years. You could just pop 

[01:29:01] Toliy: up one and, uh, 

[01:29:02] Katherine: on for 12 hours. That's, it's very telling, you know, that like, it's, it's, it's better to go into some jungle and, and have someone feed you.

[01:29:08] You don't know what really you're getting. 

[01:29:10] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:29:11] Katherine: You know, 

[01:29:11] Eldar: but, but tell me this, do they, do they or do they not touch you in inappropriate places while you are on it? 

[01:29:16] Katherine: I'm just outta question. My mom actually has told me that like, there's no people, because that might be a deal breaker. There's no people, uh, pretending to be shamans fake till they make it.

[01:29:23] Yeah. You know, and, and giving tourists like nonsense. Yeah. How would you know, 

[01:29:27] Eldar: you don't, 

[01:29:27] Katherine: how, how would you actually know if this is real or not? Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know? 

[01:29:30] Toliy: Now, now question. If somebody like, let, let, let, let's have a hypothetical here. 

[01:29:36] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[01:29:37] Toliy: If you had guaranteed assurances that if you were to do it, it would get rid of all of your trauma.

[01:29:42] Katherine: No. But you can't g guarantee No. 

[01:29:43] Toliy: But if, just 

[01:29:44] Katherine: like, you can't guarantee me even in therapy, like, 

[01:29:47] Toliy: no, no, but I'm saying 

[01:29:47] Katherine: if there's no 

[01:29:48] Toliy: guarantee, if someone did guarantee you that would, would you do it 

[01:29:52] Katherine: Ayahuasca? 

[01:29:53] Toliy: Yeah. If it was a hundred percent that it would remove your, uh, 

[01:29:58] Katherine: but no one can do that. 

[01:30:01] Toliy: He's, he's doing it a 

[01:30:02] Eldar: hypothetical.

[01:30:02] Katherine: Yeah. Well, like you can't guarantee anything. Like, you can't even guarantee me he's guaranteeing now. Yeah. I'm guarantee it. You 

[01:30:08] Toliy: take it 

[01:30:08] Katherine: therapy, everybody will take 

[01:30:09] Toliy: it. 

[01:30:11] Katherine: Um, I'm, I'm not a big fan of, uh, like, I've never had the curiosity for like, uh, certain drugs 

[01:30:17] DJ: tripping 

[01:30:17] Katherine: bowel. That, that gets very scary for me.

[01:30:19] I'm not, I don't have that curiosity. 

[01:30:21] Toliy: Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. And I feel like the, the people who obviously, like, I mean, ev everyone has their re rea reasons, I think, as to why they they would do it, but yeah, like I think a lot of people want a, uh, a good outcome from 

[01:30:34] Eldar: it. 

[01:30:35] Toliy: Right. A solution. Yeah. A solution. 

[01:30:35] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:30:36] Toliy: Right. 

[01:30:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:30:36] Toliy: And, um, it sounds like a good solution, right? Like the, the, the way that it's posed off often, right? Or that 

[01:30:44] it's 

[01:30:44] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's the bandaid. Well, the thing is, it's, uh, it's so, it's so marketed now, nowadays that Oh, yeah, it's this like magic pill magic thing that's gonna do wonders that it's like, wow, everybody's kind of tuning in.

[01:30:55] No, I think they, they're supposed to do that though, you know what I mean? If it's well marketed and like, people do see a little bit of success, right? Uh, 

[01:31:02] Toliy: well, because it has a permanent unknown ness to it. 

[01:31:05] Eldar: Yes. You 

[01:31:05] Toliy: can't ever like, disprove it up, prove it, or, 

[01:31:07] Eldar: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what the fuck, 

[01:31:08] you 

[01:31:08] Toliy: know, there, there's like a, I guess a chance of like Yeah, yeah.

[01:31:11] Like, it's very difficult to 

[01:31:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:31:13] Toliy: Disprove a lot of these things in, in these communities. 

[01:31:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:31:17] Toliy: You know? 

[01:31:17] Eldar: Mm-hmm. I mean, I don't think so, but, 

[01:31:20] Toliy: well, like when, when there's, when, when people are talking about it, they, they, they can just say like, Hey, like understand. You just don't 

[01:31:26] Eldar: understand. 

[01:31:27] Toliy: Yeah. You, you just don't have the ability to get it.

[01:31:29] Okay. 

[01:31:30] Katherine: That's true. 

[01:31:30] Toliy: What whatcha gonna say? 

[01:31:31] Eldar: I'm just gonna say you, I'm just gonna tell 'em that they're poor communicator. Like, 

[01:31:34] Katherine: like for, for example, like we have a friend who oh's my dad, um, like Joe. Joe will disagree with me. And, and, and he did. He's done it right. 

[01:31:43] Eldar: Did. I'm gonna tell you right now. Before, before I, I want to give Joel the voice 'cause he's texting me as he is listening to Yeah.

[01:31:48] He goes, iboga, ibogaine is for addiction and PTSD another useful thing. It changes people in one session and it's, 

[01:31:55] wait, 

[01:31:55] Katherine: what is ibogaine? 

[01:31:56] Eldar: It's another thing. It's another thing thing. A different kind of drug or something. Yeah. It changes people in one session and it's not drugs. It's natural. Highly addicted people.

[01:32:03] Do I ibogaine once and they're done. You probably got this from Joe Rogan by the way, 

[01:32:08] Katherine: but like yeah, like how do we know 

[01:32:10] Eldar: and everything that Joe Rogan has, how 

[01:32:11] Katherine: do we know this? And, 

[01:32:12] Eldar: and, 

[01:32:12] Katherine: and if it, 

[01:32:13] Eldar: when I did Ayahuasca, you face your issues head on and face them and make changes fast. He said, and I said, how big is the sample?

[01:32:20] A hundred success, a hundred percent success rate with these people. I beginning, he goes, go ask grog. But it's not drugs. Therapists. Therapists are ones that prescribe drugs to people to deal with these, with their issues. No psychiatrists? No. 

[01:32:30] Katherine: That's psychiatry. 

[01:32:31] Eldar: Psychiatrists prescribe drugs, Joe. Yeah.

[01:32:32] Therapists do not prescribe drugs. No, they, that's it's talk therapy. 

[01:32:35] Katherine: It's talk 

[01:32:36] Eldar: therapy. Alright. So Joe said nothing. 

[01:32:38] Mike: Yeah. I 

[01:32:39] Eldar: don't even know what I, everything, everything's why you erase it. Yeah. 

[01:32:43] Katherine: No, no. But for example, Joe, actually, it would be great to have Joe here because he could give us, uh, you know, his perspective on this.

[01:32:49] But like, I don't think that, like if you showed me right now, like, you know, some samples of like, Hey, this is gonna, I, I, I don't know if I would be like, like so open to it. Like, I'm just saying, like, I see the how receptive the community is. Like people in general like, oh, this, like, uh, yeah, I, I don't know.

[01:33:06] I don't know. I guess that's my. Thoughts 

[01:33:08] Eldar: on 

[01:33:08] Katherine: that? Yeah, 

[01:33:08] Eldar: no, uh, it's good. That's good that you have that. I'm glad that I, uh, played a big influence in your 

[01:33:12] Katherine: life. I'm a skeptic. 

[01:33:14] Eldar: Good. 

[01:33:15] Katherine: I also, I also know how hard it is to bring change, you know? Like, yes, I struggle. You know, there's this, uh, this, this one writer, her name is Brene Brown.

[01:33:23] Like she's, she says, I don't take advice from people or criticism from people who are not doing shit. Like, I wanna take advice from the people who are in the arena fighting. Right? Yeah. That's basically where I'm at. Like, 

[01:33:35] DJ: yeah. 

[01:33:36] Katherine: Every day like, is is tough sometimes to, to fight against this or that. Like Yeah.

[01:33:40] You know, believing that there's magic thing that I could take in, in the Amazons Yeah. To change my life. No, 

[01:33:46] DJ: no. You 

[01:33:46] Toliy: good. Yeah. But, but, but, but, but we know, it's funny, a lot of people who are like, let's say like we way below you in development, and if you were to tell them with like how much things are better now and like what steps to take, they would be like, oh, full shit.

[01:34:02] Katherine: Well, I, I probably have those right now. Totally. Like, no, no, I'm, I talk about my, like, my therapy experience with everyone in my life. 

[01:34:08] Eldar: No, no. 

[01:34:09] Katherine: And most people are that I know are not 

[01:34:11] Eldar: doing, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you one thing right now that, that, uh, and this is not a secret. But nobody really thinks about this.

[01:34:18] There's only one very specific common thing. 

[01:34:20] Katherine: No. 

[01:34:21] Eldar: That all the No, no, no. That's a good one. Here we go. No, no, no. This is a good one. I 

[01:34:24] Katherine: can't 

[01:34:25] Eldar: wait to hear. I dunno why I'm laughing. I'm laughing. Why you confused dj? What's 

[01:34:29] DJ: happening happen? 

[01:34:32] Katherine: I 

[01:34:33] Eldar: No, no, no, no. Know 

[01:34:34] Katherine: what's happening here. 

[01:34:35] Eldar: I'm gonna tell you around, I totally is gonna gimme a thousand percent thumbs up right now when I say this.

[01:34:41] Okay? And here's the thing. There's only one specific thing, and you share this little specific thing with these people, okay? All the people that took Ayahuasca, all of them have one thing in common, okay? They're very familiar with the phrase, I've tried everything,

[01:35:07] yes or no. 

[01:35:09] Katherine: You mean the de owners? 

[01:35:11] Toliy: Yes 

[01:35:13] Eldar: or no? So 

[01:35:13] Katherine: are you saying let's 

[01:35:14] Toliy: try a multi-billion dollar, uh, industry here, 

[01:35:16] Eldar: they have one thing in common and they've tried everything and nothing's worked. Yes or no? 

[01:35:24] Katherine: And and you're linking this to what the people that have that will go and try the ayahuasca. 

[01:35:29] Eldar: No, I'm telling you, this is the prerequisite that is super necessary.

[01:35:33] Katherine: Desperation. 

[01:35:34] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:35:34] Katherine: Desperation and 

[01:35:35] Eldar: correct. 

[01:35:35] Katherine: And 

[01:35:36] Eldar: they've tried everything 

[01:35:37] Katherine: and being negative. Okay? 

[01:35:38] Eldar: And I'm gonna tell you right now, and that devil lives in arrogance. Thrives and feeds off of arrogance 

[01:35:44] Katherine: and it, it, it's, it's in a lot of us, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah, 

[01:35:47] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:35:48] Katherine: It's true. 

[01:35:48] Toliy: Like I, the this is all, all also, I feel like in, in, in some ways it's, it's, um, like in desperation for example, people can get like religious 

[01:35:58] Eldar: a hundred percent.

[01:35:59] Katherine: Well, of course, yeah. It's 

[01:36:00] Eldar: always has to be the magic. 

[01:36:01] Toliy: Yeah. When Yeah. When you don't know what to do or it 

[01:36:04] Eldar: has to be something about magic. 

[01:36:05] Katherine: Yeah. You, 

[01:36:06] Toliy: you need masks 

[01:36:06] Katherine: when, when you don't have the answers. Correct. Correct. You who you look for somewhere 

[01:36:09] Eldar: else for you need the supernatural 

[01:36:10] Katherine: answers. Yeah. 

[01:36:11] Eldar: And the supernatural starts to become very appealing.

[01:36:14] And again, it goes back to what social media and our phones. You know why? Because those people who are creators, they, to some degree are superficial to us. 

[01:36:23] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:36:23] Eldar: And they're somehow are gods to us, and they have the answers, so we look up to them. 

[01:36:28] Toliy: Do, do you, do you, do you know that like little, like, uh, I dunno if it's like a riddle or like a thing that, that people say about like, God, and like, you know, that they're, they're looking for answers.

[01:36:36] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:36:37] Toliy: You know, they're like, they're, they're praying for answers. 

[01:36:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:36:39] Toliy: And like, they, they have that like little, like, I don't know, it's like a, I don't know, it's like a BS story, but, 

[01:36:44] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:36:45] Toliy: I think I told told you it's like when someone is like, like someone's like, uh, um, stuck at sea. 

[01:36:50] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:36:50] Toliy: Mm-hmm. And like the middle of the ocean, they're like, they're, they're, uh, very religious and they're gonna pray to God to, to help them.

[01:36:56] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Right. 

[01:36:58] Toliy: Then like there's a boat that comes by. 

[01:36:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:37:00] Toliy: And they're like, no, no, no. God, I'm good. Uh, like God's gonna save me. 

[01:37:03] Mm-hmm. 

[01:37:03] Toliy: You know? And then like another thing comes by and then someone throws like a raft and this like that. Mm-hmm. And they took none of those things. 

[01:37:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:37:08] Toliy: And then they die.

[01:37:09] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:37:10] Toliy: And they're like, you know, like, God, I was waiting for you. You were like, why? Yeah. Why aren't you save me? And he is like, what are you talking about? I sent you the boat. 

[01:37:16] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:37:16] Toliy: I sent you the raft. 

[01:37:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:37:18] Toliy: I sent you the vest. You didn't take anything. 

[01:37:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:37:20] Toliy: So I feel like there's what, like before you get to that point, there's plenty of opportunities like ar around you, right?

[01:37:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:37:26] Toliy: Where like you just say, God, it gives you the opportunities to, to do these 

[01:37:30] Eldar: things. And it's a very good analogy because now I'll link it to the fact that when you take that ayahuasca, some, some part of you has to die. And that is what 

[01:37:42] Toliy: Eureka. 

[01:37:43] Eldar: No, 

[01:37:44] Toliy: the opposite. 

[01:37:45] Eldar: The belief in yourself, your reason.

[01:37:46] Correct. 

[01:37:48] Toliy: But, but 

[01:37:48] Eldar: yeah. I had a question for, for Joe about the Ayahuasca. They think they think or about the Ayahuascas? Mm-hmm. Oh, 

[01:37:54] Katherine: you wanna call Joe? 

[01:37:55] Mike: No, but we're not gonna give Joe voice today. We're not gonna give voice today. 

[01:38:00] Katherine: Mike, you said you had a question for 

[01:38:02] Mike: Joe? Yeah, I had a question for the Joe, for the Ayahuascas.

[01:38:04] Oh. Um, Joe said it helped him to get over his ex, right? 

[01:38:11] Eldar: Yeah. That's one of the 

[01:38:12] Mike: things. That's one of the things. But did it help him to actually solve the problem that got him in the situation in the first place? Well, I'm not sure he would have to. I'm not, that's my question to him. Yeah, 

[01:38:20] Eldar: we'd 

[01:38:21] Katherine: have to talk to him.

[01:38:21] That's a good question 

[01:38:23] Mike: because I think, yeah, like. You're having a bad day. I also know how to smoke a cigarette or have a beer, or 

[01:38:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:38:29] Mike: Smoke some weed. 

[01:38:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:38:31] Mike: But tomorrow when I wake up, my still bad habits and beliefs and all that nonsense. Yeah. The problems that got me into that situation. Yeah. To have myself bad day.

[01:38:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:38:40] Mike: That I, I'm pretty sure they'll still be there. 

[01:38:42] Eldar: Oh, 

[01:38:43] Mike: for myself. 

[01:38:44] Katherine: I know about that. I watch people. That's my, my argument. It's like, until you to actually make do the changes. 

[01:38:50] Eldar: Well, I'm gonna tell you one thing. I, 

[01:38:52] Katherine: there's no change. 

[01:38:52] Eldar: I'm pretty close with Joe. And Joe does not have any plans of going to do Ayahuasca again.

[01:38:57] Mike: Well, 

[01:38:57] Eldar: why not? No, I don't know. But I'm just telling you that he doesn't, so whatever conclusions you wanna make out of that, it's up to you. That's 

[01:39:02] Mike: fair. But 

[01:39:03] Eldar: obviously there's plenty of people that have done it several times to cure all the things. 

[01:39:06] Katherine: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:39:06] Eldar: You know? So we can ask him when we see him tomorrow.

[01:39:08] Mike: Yeah, 

[01:39:09] Eldar: for sure. On Sunday. Yeah. 

[01:39:10] Katherine: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I, I'm curious about that too, Uhhuh, like what his response is in that. 

[01:39:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:39:15] Mike: I don't know if he speaks for all the ayahuascan, but, but yeah, 

[01:39:20] Katherine: it's interesting. 

[01:39:22] Eldar: Sure. It could be a good pain reliever, you know? But yeah. So how do we get here? Everyone's fighting for our attention.

[01:39:31] The Ayahuasca people are obviously fighting for the attention for the Ayahuasca. 

[01:39:35] Mike: But 

[01:39:36] Eldar: what, 

[01:39:37] Toliy: no, no, sorry, go 

[01:39:37] Eldar: ahead. My 

[01:39:38] Mike: question is like, it was starting with toy's example and starting with Ayahuascas people. 

[01:39:42] Eldar: Uhhuh, 

[01:39:42] Mike: uh, people will not, will people be allowed, the people who are finding this content or being into the.

[01:39:52] Do they find it or that finds them or both? 

[01:39:55] Eldar: That's a good question. 

[01:39:57] Mike: Like, 

[01:39:57] Toliy: that's like a chicken or the egg, huh? 

[01:39:58] Eldar: That is a good one. Yeah. 

[01:39:59] Mike: Like, but that's 

[01:40:00] Toliy: also good. Yeah. 

[01:40:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:40:01] Mike: Then what a hundred percent of the world is looking for the shorts? No. 

[01:40:06] Eldar: Uh, 

[01:40:06] Mike: but some people 

[01:40:07] Eldar: not a hundred put a lot. Yeah. 

[01:40:08] Toliy: A the more, the more suffering you have, the more you're looking for it.

[01:40:12] Eldar: Yeah. But yeah, like, and then when you're at the end of the tail, we're like, yo, I fucking exhausted you. Like, I need something. Yeah. And you heard that like, yo fucking Johnny over there, you know, he went to the jungle, you know what he did. 

[01:40:22] Katherine: Mm-hmm. Well, you know what, like one thing we could say is Joe was really suffering with that breakup.

[01:40:27] Like uhhuh, that relationship in general Yeah. Was, was not an easy one. 

[01:40:30] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:40:31] Katherine: Uh, that was a tough breakup. 

[01:40:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:40:33] Katherine: Yeah. And he could have been in one of the, like, he could have been feeling. 

[01:40:35] Mike: Yeah. But the thing is like, like, yeah. It's, to me, uh, it's just like, I can't logically wrap my head around it for that to be like a okay solution, because like, well, I, 

[01:40:48] Katherine: I'm in agreeance with you.

[01:40:48] You, 

[01:40:48] Mike: yeah. Like, you did so many things like Joel, it's not like, I'm not like familiar with all the details of Joel's relationship. I don't even know what you're talking about, but, and it doesn't matter. But like, you get into a relationship and you, let's just say you get into a bad relationship. Okay. I don't think you can get into a bad relationship by like accident.

[01:41:07] Accident. By accident. Exactly. By accident, right. Wow. So you want to get out scot free. All this. Yeah. 

[01:41:13] Katherine: You just wanna relieve the pain at 

[01:41:14] Mike: that time. Yeah. Which is fine. I'm all for relieving the pain, but I 

[01:41:18] Katherine: said I'm all for the relieving the pain. 

[01:41:20] Mike: You know, I have no problem with that. No problem with the pain relief.

[01:41:24] But you get the, the choice that you made brought you to this thing, and now you want to get away scot-free from the suffering. 

[01:41:31] Katherine: Mm-hmm. 

[01:41:31] Mike: Which suffering is, is a very good, uh, resource. It's 

[01:41:36] Katherine: a teacher, 

[01:41:36] Mike: a very good teacher, very good resource. Yes, exactly. To, to improve your life mm-hmm. To change the things you believe in, to question things you believe in.

[01:41:42] Toliy: Yeah. But see, the, the, uh, it, it being a resource, I think it's only a resource if you actually look at it that way. But a lot of people 

[01:41:50] Mike: don't. Well, it does, it doesn't, uh, it does like for the individual basis, for person to person. It does. It does. Um. It does matter, but overall it doesn't matter. No. The truth is the truth, regardless if 

[01:42:02] Toliy: people 

[01:42:03] Mike: believe it or not.

[01:42:03] Toliy: Yes. But see, but the only thing that matters is what you can believe 

[01:42:07] Mike: about belief. Well, I know a guy who once said that perception is reality. Yes. 

[01:42:12] Katherine: Yeah. 

[01:42:12] Mike: It's, I think that guy also believe 

[01:42:14] Katherine: shock therapy. Let's explore this. Like what if, let's say Joe didn't go the ayahuasca out. 

[01:42:19] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:42:20] Katherine: Uh, I'm not sure, I'm not sure what, I wish he was here so he could speak for himself, but like, okay, let's say that that was his, his pill.

[01:42:26] Mm-hmm. His version of taking a pill to relieve the pain from that. Yeah. Well, I, I wonder if he hadn't done that, like how, how that experience would have molded him. Because remember, there's, there's stuff, you know, we, the problem, there's 

[01:42:38] Eldar: so many variables at play here. 

[01:42:40] Katherine: No, but think about it. It's hard to track down.

[01:42:41] There's, there's so much to learn from that. Right. What, where did, what happened? Why did he end up in this relationship? Why, why did it go the way it went? 

[01:42:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:48] Katherine: And it could've, and you know, he could've brought those, those lessons Yeah. Into the next one, you know? Yeah. 

[01:42:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:55] Katherine: So that's, you know, those belief system in hindsight, you know, there, there are things that he needed to look at for himself of his own value system or, or however he was moving in order to learn for his, for his, 

[01:43:06] Eldar: listen, I'm not gonna say it out loud for 

[01:43:08] Katherine: his next relationship.

[01:43:09] Eldar: I'm not gonna say it out loud, but I will say this, but 

[01:43:12] Katherine: you will say this. 

[01:43:13] Eldar: I think as Joe continues to grow and his journey of self-development as he is, has been doing great. I think, um, I think his experience with Ayahuasca or any other stuff, he'll look back at it and say it's one of the worst things he ever did to 

[01:43:26] Mike: himself.

[01:43:28] Katherine: Oh, you think? You think so? 

[01:43:29] Eldar: Yeah. Absolutely. 

[01:43:31] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:43:32] Eldar: Absolutely. 

[01:43:33] Mike: Because when, when you come out on another side and you understand what true empowerment is, yes. You realize what true empowerment is not 

[01:43:40] Katherine: as well. I think. I think if Joe were here, he would actually be like, 

[01:43:43] Mike: kiss, fight back a little. 

[01:43:44] Katherine: That's why 

[01:43:45] Mike: we're not, we're not gonna, that's why we're not gonna let 

[01:43:47] Eldar: him, we're gonna take it easy.

[01:43:47] On my gosh, 

[01:43:48] Katherine: we, 

[01:43:49] Eldar: we torture. It's 

[01:43:50] Katherine: convenient. 

[01:43:50] Eldar: We're gonna 

[01:43:51] torture, 

[01:43:51] Eldar: we're gonna torture him a little bit because he's listening. 

[01:43:53] Katherine: Wow. That's that, that's so nice. 

[01:43:56] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. He's calling right now. He's like, ah, motherfucker. Yeah, yeah, 

[01:44:00] Katherine: yeah. 

[01:44:01] Eldar: Um, yeah, no, 

[01:44:02] Katherine: yeah. 

[01:44:03] Eldar: I have my reasons, obviously, and you know, again, I, my reasons are closely tied to your reasons Yeah.

[01:44:07] As to why I think that work is the work. Mm-hmm. Right. There's no way around it. Yeah. That's what makes sense. Like, you know, you have to, you have to go through the trenches and trying to do all that stuff. 

[01:44:16] Katherine: Yeah. There's no other way. 

[01:44:18] Eldar: Obviously I'm not happy. I mean, also, I can't even say this statement that like, I'm not happy that my friend had to go to a point or any of my friends that gotten a point.

[01:44:27] You don't a point wish that you don't wish, wish that for anyone. Wish Right. From my friends, obviously. You know what I mean? Um, because I, I personally still believe that we're locked in and we're loaded with Banana clips. I like to say, um, that the real work that we do, or the real work that we're talking about is actually.

[01:44:45] The stuff that, you know, actually cures. Mm-hmm. You know, or actually helps. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and redefines us our identities and really challenges to a degree where it's like, okay, this is, this is here to stay and we got it. We get it. You know what I mean? Versus, uh, something that's like magical one time.

[01:44:59] Mm-hmm. And then like, 

[01:45:00] Katherine: you 

[01:45:00] Eldar: know, you kind of always try to make sense of what the fuck happened to you. You know what I mean? Yeah. 

[01:45:06] Katherine: I guess ultimately it just kind of makes me realize that like so many people are looking for 

[01:45:11] Eldar: answers, answers 

[01:45:12] Katherine: a way out, answers or 

[01:45:13] Eldar: pain relief is not pain relief. Yeah. This is not to blame anybody who's doing it.

[01:45:16] No, 

[01:45:17] Katherine: it's not. It's, 

[01:45:17] Eldar: this is to say that people are suffering, people are having a hard time and they're trying to figure shit out. And sometimes it lands 'em in the jungle naked and afraid. 

[01:45:25] Katherine: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:45:25] Eldar: Which is okay. 

[01:45:26] Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:45:27] Eldar: Um, 

[01:45:28] Katherine: and so I guess also that's of it, that's part of the case. If you end up there, that's, that's part of your journey.

[01:45:31] And I guess you were meant to be there in the first place, you know? Yeah, 

[01:45:35] Eldar: yeah, yeah. 

[01:45:35] Mike: Everybody lands where they're supposed to land because they find whatever they're looking for. Yeah. You know? So For sure. 

[01:45:43] Eldar: So are we transitioning anywhere else? 

[01:45:46] Mike: Yeah. Well, we didn't really talk about the challenging thing.

[01:45:48] Mm-hmm. We didn't get into it. 

[01:45:50] Eldar: Yeah. Troy didn't have any answers for you. 

[01:45:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:45:52] Katherine: Yeah. I guess 

[01:45:52] Eldar: that's 

[01:45:53] Mike: ended up here. He didn't say anything. 

[01:45:54] Eldar: For what? Yeah. For, for what we talked about Mike and the trouble that he's having that he can't even connect some of the wins that he does see, and I think you can relate to this as well.

[01:46:02] He can't connect it where it's like he maybe feels like there's another shoe to drop, right. Where it's like, you know, something else. He needs to uncover, or he is, he's, uh, being negative about himself somewhere else in the other topic or whatever. Mm-hmm. Something is always coming up where it's like stalling his progress or not allowing him to actually 

[01:46:20] Toliy: mm-hmm.

[01:46:20] Eldar: Rejoice. 

[01:46:22] Toliy: Yeah. But 

[01:46:22] Eldar: I feel like from some of the things that he's learning 

[01:46:24] Toliy: mm-hmm. Yeah. But I feel like the, the actual, um, the actual progress and, and the, um, the learning, like to me, like

[01:46:38] the actual pro, like the actual, real, like, so there's some times where I think where you progress on something, but you obviously don't realize it, or don't see it or don't don't understand it. 

[01:46:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:46:47] Toliy: But you may have someone else maybe you're observing, for example. 

[01:46:50] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:46:51] Toliy: Mike in particular things. Mm-hmm.

[01:46:52] Right. Yes. This 

[01:46:52] Eldar: happens all the time. 

[01:46:52] Toliy: But, but to me it's like, for the self progression for yourself to have it, I think you need to, um, challenge, you need to challenge yourself, not like you, for example, challenging Mike. Mm-hmm. There has to be a come a point where like you challenge yourself 

[01:47:11] Eldar: organically.

[01:47:12] Toliy: Organically. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And you step up to the plate and you go all in and you actually, like, you show to yourself 

[01:47:19] Eldar: that fuck you. 

[01:47:19] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. We got this and that and that and that. And, and that way you no longer have to have like someone else bring that out of you, for example. Yeah. Or to do that. I agree.

[01:47:28] Once you actually can do that. Yeah. Then you stop having that process. We'll talked about this. 

[01:47:32] Mike: Yeah. But I feel like, uh, if we want to use the rock climbing thing Right. What happened on Sunday, right. Uhhuh, like, I don't know if this count, this is example what you're talking about Sunday. 

[01:47:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:47:41] Mike: You told me like Saturday we went climbing.

[01:47:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:47:43] Mike: I was working at Orange one. 

[01:47:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:47:45] Mike: A lot. I was, and I got tired, like, I can't do this. Like, I'm tired. 

[01:47:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:47:48] Mike: That's it. And then the next morning I went back, 

[01:47:51] Eldar: you're 

[01:47:51] Mike: returning, you did it with the mentality I needed to do it. 

[01:47:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:47:53] Mike: You know, and I did it. 

[01:47:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:47:55] Mike: You know, I mean, it took me a couple tries, but I did it, you know, and I was like, um, I dunno if that's what you're talking about, but like, I went by myself and I figured it out and I finished it and I 

[01:48:04] Toliy: Yes.

[01:48:05] But I, I do think if we wanna bring like the competition element to, to it. 

[01:48:10] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:48:10] Toliy: I do think it's important to do it. Like, um, not, not, uh, I dunno if the right word is like when everyone's watching, but there No, I know 

[01:48:18] Eldar: what it means. Yeah, 

[01:48:19] Toliy: yeah, 

[01:48:20] Eldar: yeah. You're right. Are you right? You are right. 

[01:48:23] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:48:23] Eldar: Uh, what he's saying is that when it's time to perform, you know where to be found.

[01:48:28] You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. 

[01:48:29] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:48:29] Eldar: Because like in that moment 

[01:48:31] Toliy: mm-hmm. 

[01:48:31] Eldar: Like you're staring at it, but there's people looking and stuff like that. And like you might be feeling judged 

[01:48:35] Toliy: or whatever. Yes. And I have a good example of that. I don't know if you remember, but I, I, I, I think I uhhuh. I don't remember if I brought it up to, to, to you, but May, may.

[01:48:44] Mm-hmm. Maybe I did. 

[01:48:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:48:45] Toliy: For, for, for Mike, when it was the day of that competition, um, you, you, you made a very specific statement and it was like, like you were like going against yourself there. Do you, do you, do you, do you remember 

[01:48:57] Mike: it? Which competition? 

[01:48:58] Toliy: The, the climbing. The climbing. Competition.

[01:49:00] Mike: Competition? No, 

[01:49:01] Toliy: no. 

[01:49:01] Mike: I don't remember. 

[01:49:02] Toliy: Um, like you guys were trying different things and you made a statement saying like, you, like you, you, you were at a point where you stopped trying during the competition. Mm-hmm. And you said, I hope they leave these up so we could, so I could do them after. 

[01:49:14] Mike: Yes. Oh, I 

[01:49:16] Eldar: remember you said, yeah, I 

[01:49:17] Mike: remember that.

[01:49:17] Yeah. 

[01:49:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:49:18] Mike: Yes. 

[01:49:19] Toliy: When, when you said that. Mm-hmm. Like, to me, it was right away it was like, you know, like you're, oh 

[01:49:23] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:49:23] Toliy: Like, you're like, like, yeah. Like you're doing that thing, I guess. 

[01:49:27] Eldar: Right. I was fighting against time. 

[01:49:29] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:49:29] Eldar: He already planned tomorrow. 

[01:49:31] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Correct. He was fighting against that time because 

[01:49:33] Eldar: you weren't fighting against that time.

[01:49:34] You checked out early. Yes, of course. 

[01:49:36] Toliy: Yeah. So you weren't willing to do the com. The com the, the competitive like 

[01:49:39] Eldar: thing 

[01:49:40] Toliy: part about it where like you try all them, you're tired as hell. 

[01:49:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:49:44] Toliy: You could fail. 90% of them, it doesn't matter. But you actually tried 

[01:49:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:49:48] Toliy: Mm-hmm. To do all of them. And you were just out of gas and you were out of the exhaustion point.

[01:49:52] Mm-hmm. 

[01:49:52] Eldar: And 

[01:49:52] Toliy: you didn't have that, like, if, if you would actually try way harder if you knew they weren't gonna be the correct, for 

[01:49:58] Eldar: example. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. 

[01:49:59] Toliy: There, there's, there. It's a very good example. Also a different like competitive element to it. When you're in like. Again, when others are watching, when you see other people do it.

[01:50:08] Yeah. When there's people that you know are seeing you do it, they're, they're, it's different, you know? Mm-hmm. 

[01:50:14] Eldar: That's a very good example. Yeah. That's a very good example. 

[01:50:17] Mike: Well, I, I mean, I, I 

[01:50:18] Eldar: agree. Well, then you come back yourself. Right. You already like you, it's you on your own time. 

[01:50:22] Mike: Yeah. But the thing I, I can agree with it, but I I have to also push back question.

[01:50:27] Yeah. Push back. Because a lot of times you do push me and I do perform. 

[01:50:31] Eldar: No, I know. 

[01:50:32] Mike: Yeah, 

[01:50:32] Eldar: I know. So what, so that's different. No, because you're pushing me. No, it's, no, it's good. It's good. But ultimately, like, yeah, I, you shouldn't have my voice in 

[01:50:40] Toliy: your head. It's good. You'll, but, but you'll never, it's feel the benefits that you're looking for until you're the one that could 

[01:50:46] Eldar: kickstart, that 

[01:50:46] Toliy: kickstart your own.

[01:50:48] Eldar: You, you, I can't believe in you more than you believe in yourself. 

[01:50:51] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:50:51] Eldar: Of right now. It's still the case. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? For sure. Like, I have to convince you of you, I told, I've been telling you 

[01:50:56] Toliy: this. Yeah. You like, you getting over the hump is you could potentially even getting like a delusional a little bit, you know?

[01:51:02] 'cause like you're so convinced and correct. Mm-hmm. You're so con confident. 

[01:51:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:51:06] Toliy: The other person's like, yo, this guy can't do this or something. Right? Yeah. Because like, you're, they, you're seeing something that they don't see, for example, 

[01:51:13] Eldar: and we see that sometimes in people where they come in, they're like, they don't look like they're strong.

[01:51:17] They may be overweight. Mm-hmm. They may be short and then they fucking do this shit. Remember like that Asian girl that was doing with big legs? 

[01:51:24] Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[01:51:25] Eldar: We're like, what the hell's happening? And she's just fucking killing it. Mm-hmm. Like, no way she's doing this. Mm-hmm. This is what he's talking about.

[01:51:30] It's almost like that delusional like. You give him off that 

[01:51:33] Mike: thing? Yeah. No, I, I don't, I agree with you guys for sure. 

[01:51:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:51:36] Mike: But I'm explaining to you guys what I'm fighting against. Well, no, 

[01:51:39] Eldar: we know. 

[01:51:40] Mike: 30 years of the opposite programming. 

[01:51:41] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But asking, but we're telling you what it looks like.

[01:51:43] Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[01:51:44] Eldar: On the opposite side. 

[01:51:45] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:51:45] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:51:46] Mike: So I'm trying to understand how do I undo that programming? 

[01:51:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:51:49] Mike: That's, that's my question. 

[01:51:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:51:50] Mike: Yeah. I like, and sometimes I, when I go, I do push myself to complete, like even that blue one 

[01:51:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:51:58] Mike: That you said, that was too easy for me. 

[01:51:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:00] Mike: Right. 

[01:52:00] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:52:00] Mike: For me it was hard. Yeah. For whatever excuses I have. 

[01:52:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:04] Mike: It was very hard for me. 

[01:52:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:05] Mike: It's balance. It's awkward. Yeah. My hips, my hip hurts. Like I give you excuses, right? Yeah, 

[01:52:11] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:52:12] Mike: But I went there on my own and I persevered and like I did it. So like, I do sometimes push myself, but like, also, yeah. It's more like a guessing game.

[01:52:19] Where am I supposed to extract? And even you said to me like, um, but you must feel good after you finish 

[01:52:26] Eldar: it. 

[01:52:26] Mike: I do. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I did feel good. But, but then it's also like, Hey, this, like, it's 

[01:52:32] Eldar: a relief. 

[01:52:33] Mike: It's 

[01:52:33] Eldar: like, 

[01:52:33] Mike: yeah, 

[01:52:33] Eldar: yeah, yeah, 

[01:52:34] Mike: I feel good. But like, 

[01:52:35] Eldar: obviously it's, it's, it's not gonna feel as good as if you did it after a hundred times versus doing it after 10 times, for example.

[01:52:41] You know what I mean? 

[01:52:41] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:52:42] Eldar: It's still, it's, it's a relief more than like a celebration. Like, yo, I'm the fucking man. Look at what I just did. You know what I mean? Like, and I have those moments still. 

[01:52:49] Mike: Yeah. I have those, yeah, I have those too. When, you know, I do certain things that I'm like, I'm, 

[01:52:53] Toliy: yeah, but you, it, it, it's really, it's really difficult to feel like the, uh, the, the accomplishment.

[01:52:59] I think that. Like, I dunno, maybe Mike's looking for from, I think you motivating him. 

[01:53:05] Mike: Mm-hmm. No, I, I agree. I feel like we spoke about this. Yeah. 

[01:53:08] Toliy: Yeah. I 

[01:53:08] Mike: feel 

[01:53:08] Toliy: like it'll be, 

[01:53:09] Mike: yeah. No, but I do, like, I go on my own too, because I also understand, like, I can't rely on all, and I go on my own for that reason, because I wanna push myself to do certain things that on my own, really give it the effort.

[01:53:20] And I have, and I struggle with it because of the mind starts going crazy. 

[01:53:24] Toliy: No, but I feel that like the actual practice and the actual thing that you're talking about, I don't think it can be practiced in that way. Like, you going alone. 

[01:53:33] Eldar: Why not? 

[01:53:33] Toliy: Because I don't think that you can have that competitive, like, uh, 

[01:53:36] Eldar: he's saying that the, the variables are different there.

[01:53:39] Toliy: Yeah. They're very different. 

[01:53:40] Eldar: Yeah. So what you're doing is you almost setting yourself up for more of a cushy experience. 

[01:53:44] Toliy: Yes. Because you're the, like the, the, uh, judge, the jury, the executer. Okay, fine. In that process. But, 

[01:53:48] Mike: okay. Then 

[01:53:49] Eldar: lemme ask you this. You might be right about that. Think about it. I 

[01:53:50] Toliy: I will.

[01:53:51] Versus in the competition, we're all there. We're all 

[01:53:52] Eldar: looking 

[01:53:53] Toliy: and we see the 

[01:53:53] Mike: eyes, the eyes are on you 

[01:53:54] Toliy: for, for example. 

[01:53:55] Mike: Sure. But my question is, okay, if I go there on my own right? Yeah. And I get it in 25, uh, 50 tries. 

[01:54:01] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:54:03] Mike: But if elder was there, I could have gotten in, in five, 10 tries. Is there a difference?

[01:54:09] Toliy: If you get it, you get it in 20, 25 tries. 

[01:54:11] Mike: Sure. 50 don't matter. 

[01:54:13] Toliy: Okay. It takes 

[01:54:14] Mike: me a lot longer. 

[01:54:15] Toliy: Okay. 

[01:54:15] Mike: And I get it. 

[01:54:16] Eldar: It is a difference. Yeah. 

[01:54:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:54:17] Eldar: There is. I think there is a difference. 

[01:54:19] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:54:20] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. There there's also, again, like, like, you know, like for, for example, like when we were, when we used to play basketball, like when we played the game, 

[01:54:27] Eldar: you gotta bridge that gap.

[01:54:28] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Like when I'm, we could go in the game. I could, there's times I couldn't make any shots. Like nothing. 

[01:54:33] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:54:34] Toliy: And like, I needed Eldar to like motivate me mm-hmm. And to convince me that like, Hey, I could make these, or like, I don't know, like I, IFI felt that like I almost wasn't worthy to, to shoot these things.

[01:54:43] You gotta pass it to Sandy or remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[01:54:45] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[01:54:46] Toliy: Like, like, you know, like, I didn't believe that even though I had abilities mm-hmm. To obviously make them. 

[01:54:51] Mike: Of course. 

[01:54:51] Toliy: But I didn't at, at the same time. Well, I think 

[01:54:53] Mike: that's what I'm talking about. Right. I can make those climbs. 

[01:54:56] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:54:56] Mike: But, but I can make those climbs.

[01:54:57] Toliy: Yes. But I think eventually I bridged, I bridged that gap where like, I knew, I was like, I want, like, I want the ball every time. Like I became, became, 

[01:55:05] Eldar: he became his own entity. 

[01:55:07] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:55:07] Eldar: Mm-hmm. He became outside of what I believed in him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. Now he's on his own. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody knew that now, like, oh, he's a fucking threat.

[01:55:14] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:55:14] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[01:55:15] Mike: Well, yeah, yeah, for sure. 

[01:55:16] Eldar: Yeah. You know, you know, like, I know he's a threat. I know you are a threat on the wall. Mm-hmm. But like, you don't know. 

[01:55:22] Mike: You know what I mean? Yeah. Well that the thing is what you guys discussing. That's exactly what I'm saying. Like, 

[01:55:26] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:55:26] Mike: I, part of the reason why I go on my own, or even, like you said, today, I go on my cycle because I wanna 

[01:55:32] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:55:32] Mike: Be able to be self-sufficient. 

[01:55:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:55:34] Mike: And I'm going to fight that, that, that weak mentality, that negative self-talk, for sure. But 

[01:55:39] Toliy: I feel like my, like, my challenge is that I don't think you'll be able to manufacture those same stakes 

[01:55:44] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:55:44] Toliy: That happen when everyone's there. 

[01:55:48] Eldar: You know, how you, you know how you also say that?

[01:55:50] Like, Hey bro, like I'm okay with doing them, but like after kind of like when they first come out, I get intimidated. It's that thing. 

[01:55:57] Mike: Yeah. Well, I, well, we spoke, 

[01:55:59] Eldar: spoke about 

[01:55:59] Mike: this. 

[01:55:59] Eldar: I 

[01:55:59] Mike: said, I have a fear of failure preloaded. 

[01:56:02] Eldar: Yeah, 

[01:56:02] Mike: yeah, 

[01:56:03] Eldar: yeah. This 

[01:56:03] Mike: is what we're talking 

[01:56:04] Eldar: about. When you come up, you, you are excited for the new stuff, but you are also afraid of it.

[01:56:07] Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Where like, I don't have the afraid part. I'm like, I'm just excited. Like, this is awesome. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Let's fucking give it up my all. Yeah. Make a fool out. So, 

[01:56:15] Toliy: only gives a fuck. The, the example to me in this case would be is that like if we were, we would go to games mm-hmm.

[01:56:20] And like, El would pass you the ball and I wouldn't shoot, so you 

[01:56:23] Eldar: cut, 

[01:56:23] Toliy: but then I told him that like, Hey, I made 10 in a row. Yeah. At, at the gym in practice. 

[01:56:26] Mike: Exactly. Mm-hmm. 

[01:56:27] Toliy: Like, he would never be like impressed with me saying that. 

[01:56:30] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:56:30] Toliy: Like, he would only be impressed when I can actually mm-hmm. Like, do the game.

[01:56:35] Even though Yeah. Like, it, like, I dunno, is it more impressive in the game to score like five or six threes or to make like the, to say like 40 outta 50 

[01:56:43] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:56:44] Toliy: Shooting around like 

[01:56:44] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:56:45] Toliy: 40 outta 50 sounds probably a bit harder to have that kind of like mm-hmm. High percentage on that many shots especially, right?

[01:56:52] Mm-hmm. 

[01:56:53] Mike: Um, 

[01:56:54] Toliy: like I, I think it would be that example where like, because when I'm shooting, when when you're just practicing, obviously the stakes are completely different when you're like, level one, level up is like a pickup game with others. 

[01:57:05] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:57:05] Toliy: Right? Another level up is like mm-hmm. A game with referees and like a league.

[01:57:10] Mm-hmm. And maybe another level up outside of that is like that version, but the playoffs now. Mm-hmm. Or the championship, right. Or like 

[01:57:17] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:57:17] Toliy: As the stakes go up 

[01:57:19] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:57:20] Toliy: Um, like, um, it, it, it becomes for, for some harder and harder to like perform. Um. And like one thing that's common always, like in sports, like looking basketball, it's an actual thing.

[01:57:32] Like they, they fight for the best records to get home field advantage. 

[01:57:36] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:57:36] Toliy: And they do this because they specifically know that like, like the, like the stars, like the Steph Curry. Mm-hmm. For example, he's gonna perform no matter what, home or away, they already know this. Mm-hmm. There's, there's no, he's not gonna perform any better or worse.

[01:57:49] Mm-hmm. It doesn't matter. But the role players 

[01:57:51] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:57:52] Toliy: Statistically, this is an NBA fact by the way, statistically performed significantly better at home than on the road. 

[01:57:58] Mike: That's it 

[01:57:59] Toliy: statistically. 

[01:58:00] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:58:00] Toliy: Right. Yeah. So like that, that role player, who would've, who would, like on the road, he would've had five points.

[01:58:06] Mm-hmm. At, at, at home, he could catch fire and get, get hot with the crowd and score 20, 

[01:58:11] Mike: right. 

[01:58:11] Toliy: For example. Right? 

[01:58:13] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:58:13] Toliy: So that, that's usually like why they want the home court. Yeah. Is because 

[01:58:17] Mike: of 

[01:58:17] Toliy: course the role players, they would need the support of the fans to have explosive, like things where like the stars would be able to do it no matter what.

[01:58:24] Doesn't matter the place. 

[01:58:25] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:58:26] Toliy: Jordan's gonna get his right. Yeah. Like, Kobe Kobe's gonna get his, yeah. It doesn't matter. You know, like he doesn't need the crowd support, 

[01:58:33] Mike: of course. 

[01:58:33] Toliy: So yeah. I just feel like I, I, I think at least my, my opinion is that, um, I think it's difficult to manufacture that when you go on your own, like to manufacture that a hundred percent, that competitiveness or that like push.

[01:58:47] Or pull, because like Yeah. When you're with others, sure. Especially once that, 

[01:58:52] Mike: you know, from where I'm coming from, it's very hard to have that competitive edge on your own. But I'm trying to get to the point where I could be like Ldar and be competitive against myself when I'm on my own and push myself to try the hardest.

[01:59:03] Yes. I think that's where the gap is. 

[01:59:05] Toliy: Yeah. But I don't know if you can practice that on your own, is what I'm saying. 

[01:59:08] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:59:08] Eldar: You, but you know how you also say like, Hey, like when I, when I go play basketball without Aldar, like I'm, I'm gonna have like this different game. 

[01:59:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:59:16] Eldar: So that seems also phenomenon.

[01:59:17] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:59:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:59:18] Toliy: That's part of it. Yeah. Yeah. There, yeah. When there's people that, you know and stuff like that, there's eyes, there's judgment. Yeah. There's, 

[01:59:24] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:59:25] Toliy: There there's a lot of those inherent feelings that you can't Yeah. When the lights are on, you can't manufacture. Yeah, 

[01:59:29] Mike: yeah, yeah. Oh, for sure. Like, uh, this is all part of it.

[01:59:35] I mean, like the, the, the pressure, the fear of the failure. 

[01:59:38] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:59:39] Mike: Preloaded. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what do you suggest if you un if you understand the thing, you know, and I think you understanding it, and I agree with what you're saying. How do I, how do I overcome this? And then be able to finally extract that, which I'm looking 

[01:59:55] Eldar: to extract.

[01:59:55] See, the tricky part is, you know, like obviously when we go climbing and stuff and you sometimes say, Hey, I have this injury or that injury. Like, you shouldn't be pushing yourself on the injury if the injury is true. 

[02:00:05] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:00:06] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. But if it's not, obviously, you know, when you give a hundred percent, you know it.

[02:00:10] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:00:11] Eldar: You feel it like you can't cheat yourself. 

[02:00:12] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:00:13] Eldar: And I think you should strive for that. 

[02:00:15] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:00:15] Eldar: To give it your all. Yeah. All the time. But it's tricky because of the injuries, you know what I mean? Of 

[02:00:20] Mike: course. Yeah. 

[02:00:22] Eldar: You can hurt yourself. Yeah. Or you, if you already hurt, you can, you can, you can get even more then you can have a setback.

[02:00:26] Mike: Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, 

[02:00:28] Eldar: I agree. Like yesterday, I felt very strong. I felt good and I climbed like a madman. 

[02:00:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:00:34] Eldar: And I felt very good inside. 

[02:00:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:00:36] Eldar: Because I did that. 

[02:00:36] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[02:00:37] Eldar: You know what I mean? Um, and I, I think that adds to my confidence of climbing. 

[02:00:42] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:00:43] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[02:00:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:00:44] Eldar: We did a lot of things though, like we don't know what the numbers are.

[02:00:46] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:00:47] Eldar: And I'm like, I'm excited to see what the numbers are mm-hmm. Because I've climbed it. 

[02:00:51] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:00:51] Eldar: You know, and I felt good about it. 

[02:00:52] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[02:00:53] Eldar: You know, but I know sometimes when I come in there with like a little tweak, you know, something else, you know what I mean? Like I'm just gonna take it easy a little bit, you know?

[02:01:01] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:01:01] Eldar: And I can't extract the same oomph. 

[02:01:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:01:03] Eldar: You know what 

[02:01:03] Mike: I mean? No, I know. No, I definitely, and obviously like they have this dual duality, dual thing, 

[02:01:09] Eldar: uhhuh 

[02:01:09] Mike: where I don't obviously want to climb and I don't want to get injured. 

[02:01:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:01:13] Mike: But I also want to go because one I wanna work out, right? Like, 

[02:01:17] Eldar: yeah, 

[02:01:18] Mike: okay, my wrist hurts when I pull this way, but it doesn't hurt like this way, it doesn't hurt this way.

[02:01:21] It doesn't hurt this way. Yeah. So I can still do stuff and I stay away from the stuff that I shouldn't be doing. That is really painful. Mm-hmm. 

[02:01:26] Eldar: You 

[02:01:27] Mike: know, but I also, maybe now I'm a addict getting even maybe addicted or somehow I'm thinking now I'm getting addicted more to the finding out about myself.

[02:01:38] Eldar: Mm. 

[02:01:38] Mike: So I may go and climb. 

[02:01:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:01:40] Mike: I may do terrible, but the lessons I'll extract from it. 

[02:01:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:01:44] Mike: That I'll share with you are are worth it. Yeah. Much more than than that. 

[02:01:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:01:49] Mike: So I look at it like that. Yeah. Like, sure. Some days I shouldn't be going climbing and 

[02:01:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:01:53] Mike: And I clearly show up and I I can't do shit.

[02:01:55] Yeah. Like I'm in pain. Mm-hmm. My hips are fucked, my wrist is fucked. Like Sure. But even like, maybe that thing is like I'm maybe there and I'm thinking more 

[02:02:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:02:05] Mike: And I'm paying attention to my mind and I'm sharing 

[02:02:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:02:07] Mike: And I'm going up there and like, yeah, sure my wrist hurts, but does it hurt that bad?

[02:02:11] Or like, you know, like I'm saying, I'm finding where the excuses are and where they aren't. 

[02:02:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:02:16] Mike: You know, so like, yeah. It's still like a great thing. But yes, obviously I'd like to gap up to what 

[02:02:22] Eldar: Well, that's why I think that this rest right now you're gonna get, is gonna be interesting when you go on Sunday Yeah.

[02:02:25] To Williams workplace. 

[02:02:26] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:02:27] Eldar: When we go there. Yeah. On Sunday. 

[02:02:28] Mike: Okay. 

[02:02:29] Eldar: I think this is, you know, that's a good time for you to shine. 

[02:02:32] Mike: Yeah. So how, how should I, like, uh, how should I then like, approach it? Like, 

[02:02:37] Eldar: I mean, for you, you should be like giddy, you know what I mean? 

[02:02:40] Mike: Oh, I'm definitely looking forward to it.

[02:02:41] But like, 

[02:02:42] Eldar: yeah. 

[02:02:42] Mike: In order to be able to like ex, you know, like kind of understand what you guys talking about to feel that way. You're talking about what should I come in there and just like. 

[02:02:51] Eldar: Go ape shit. 

[02:02:52] Mike: Go ape shit. But like, 

[02:02:53] Eldar: no, you should really, like, you should just be like excited. I think that you, I mean, you can manufacture like this kind of stuff, but like, I would think that you have to be excited trying new shit and like, oh, 

[02:03:01] Mike: I 

[02:03:01] Eldar: am, I'm 

[02:03:02] Mike: trying to try new shit 

[02:03:03] Eldar: for, you know what I mean?

[02:03:03] Not going there like stalling and like, I'm not sure, you know, like all that stuff that you sometimes do, you know what I mean? Like, oh, what is this? You start asking stupid ass questions and shit. Like I, I, I show it to you, for example, you know? 

[02:03:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:03:15] Eldar: And then I'm like, you paying attention? You're like, yeah.

[02:03:17] And then like, oh, so, and then you go gone and yourself, you're like, is, is left foot here? Like, you acting like, you know, like you just, 

[02:03:22] Mike: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[02:03:23] Eldar: You're not a stupid guy. You know? 

[02:03:24] Mike: The thing is, my head is like, there's multiple things going on. Sc scrambled, my head is scrambled. 

[02:03:29] Eldar: I know 

[02:03:29] Mike: you're like somewhere else.

[02:03:30] And I'm also thinking like, oh, this looks scary, this looks difficult. You see, I'm judging the move. Correct. I can't just focus, pay attention to what's being said. 

[02:03:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:03:36] Mike: So, yeah. I mean, I know this. 

[02:03:38] Toliy: Yeah. 'cause also it's like when you're there, for example, with like Eldar and for example, and Joe. Mm-hmm. Like when you're climbing, they're gonna be looking.

[02:03:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. Right. 

[02:03:47] Toliy: But I think, and there's a particular, 

[02:03:49] Mike: I already have 

[02:03:49] Toliy: a 

[02:03:50] Mike: benchmark. Yeah, 

[02:03:50] Toliy: yeah. There's a benchmark, there's a particular pace. Yes. There's a particular set of events. There's judgments happening, there's jokes, there's, you know, all, all kinds of things, right? Mm-hmm. I think when you're on your own, you don't have that pace that it's like set in that same way.

[02:04:02] Like you have no way to enforce that tho, tho that those same pressures and those same like terms. 

[02:04:07] Eldar: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[02:04:08] Toliy: Then, then, then when you're gonna be there, like with them, for example, 

[02:04:11] Eldar: if I know to is a shooter and he is a good shooter and we are in a game and he is not doing that, I'm upset. That's my bar already.

[02:04:17] Like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah. 

[02:04:18] Toliy: And I can't go to the game 

[02:04:18] Eldar: and saying 

[02:04:19] Toliy: if 10 in a row after the game. 

[02:04:20] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. And then if you, if you make the layups, you run down the court, you catching my passes and stuff like, like I know your potential. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? I, that's not even potential.

[02:04:28] 'cause I've seen it plenty of times. 

[02:04:29] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:04:29] Eldar: So then like if you lily gagging doing some weird shit and like missing easy layups. Mm-hmm. Gain stuff by people, like, I'm gonna be upset. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. And that upset or that's the bar. 

[02:04:40] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[02:04:41] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? The 

[02:04:42] Mike: bar is set.

[02:04:42] The thing is when you get, when you get upset at me, I don't know how to process that properly. 

[02:04:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:04:46] Mike: And I start, then I start like more 

[02:04:48] Eldar: glitching, 

[02:04:50] Mike: glitching. Glitching maybe. Yeah. 'cause I'm like, hey. You're giving too much because I'm fighting myself now. You fighting me? 

[02:04:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:04:54] Mike: It's like too much for one person to handle and I kind of bring myself probably down more and more.

[02:04:58] Eldar: Yeah. Well, no, no. There's plenty of times where you lock in and like, you actually like start taking the layups or whatever it is that you need to be doing for you're doing for sure. And he starts taking shots. I don't even care with him missing. I'm like, yo, miss the damn shot. But damn, take it. 

[02:05:09] Mike: He, 

[02:05:10] Eldar: he does the extra pass to Obama.

[02:05:11] It's like, what the fuck? Mm-hmm. I'm getting frustrated. You know what I mean? Because you can't, you can't introduce you yourselves to me as like, set this bar for me and I know what's capable, what you guys are capable of, and then we have to fucking tone it down. Yeah. Like 

[02:05:25] Mike: what? Of course. You 

[02:05:25] Eldar: know? 

[02:05:26] Mike: Yeah.

[02:05:26] Eldar: Just like totally is like sometimes like, yo, shut 'em down or whatever. Do this do. Like, I'm like, I know what he's expecting. Like I know. Mm-hmm. Because he saw, 'cause I've showed it, you know? Mm-hmm. I could lock people up. 

[02:05:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:05:34] Eldar: You know what I mean? So it's like, yo do it, you know? Yeah, I understand. So then, yeah, I understand.

[02:05:37] If I don't plate to that, like I know how I feel inside. 

[02:05:39] Mike: Yeah. I, I am on. I understand. Yeah. 

[02:05:41] Eldar: Yeah. Like 

[02:05:42] Mike: I have a, a example that happened, I don't know if you remember, it happened a couple days. I actually happened last Saturday. 

[02:05:47] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:05:48] Mike: No. Something very specific. And I'm gonna remind you 

[02:05:49] Eldar: Uhhuh 

[02:05:50] Mike: and I, you guys can tell me if this is, this is like a good what?

[02:05:55] Like how do you guys understand it? We're climbing this orange climb for, I don't know. We took like, I took maybe five attempts, I don't know. And I was getting to this one place that I got stuck. I couldn't move. It was too scary. Yeah. Remember where, where I was going? 

[02:06:10] Eldar: Yeah, I know. Okay. 

[02:06:11] Mike: I got there and I got there and I was like, okay.

[02:06:13] Like obviously when I'm getting up there, I'm scared to fall. I'm scared to hurt myself. I'm scared, like, you know, probably scared. Fall hurt yourself. Probably. Those are the only really things you can think of about Yeah. You know, I scared and then you said, 

[02:06:23] Eldar: I'm just gonna go and fall, 

[02:06:24] Mike: and I go there and I sit down and I like, I sat down.

[02:06:28] Eldar: You said it out loud to 

[02:06:29] Mike: me and I said it out, out. I was like, oh, I, I know. I said, elder, I know what I have to do. 

[02:06:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:06:32] Mike: And I was a thousand percent convinced. Yeah. You cannot convince me. Yeah. I went up there and said, yo, I know what to do. You're like, what? Mm-hmm. I'm going there to fall. Yeah. That was like, I locked in.

[02:06:41] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:06:42] Mike: But by me saying the, like, I'm going there to fall. 

[02:06:45] Eldar: You did better 

[02:06:46] Mike: it. Yeah. I did better. And what, what that did was it took away, like the fear, the thoughts, I'm like, Hey, I'm not going to climb here. I'm going to fall here. So if you fall, 

[02:07:01] Eldar: it's okay. 

[02:07:01] Mike: It's okay. It don't have to worry about falling. Now you actually have to climb because now you already know you're gonna fall.

[02:07:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:07:07] Mike: You preloaded this for yourself and you're gonna, you're gonna go and climb. 

[02:07:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:07:11] Mike: You know, and then the day that I went myself, Uhhuh the next day. 

[02:07:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:07:16] Mike: Three times in a row. You did? I landed that ankle, the uh, the heel hook swab. Yeah. Three times in a row. 

[02:07:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:07:22] Mike: Because I, and it was still scary, but I'm like, yo, I already know this.

[02:07:25] I can do this. 

[02:07:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:07:26] Mike: Like, I already done this. Yeah. Like, and I did it in a row, obviously, you know, solidified, solidified yourself. But Yeah. And I was like, oh. Like, sure. Maybe to You would. Mm-hmm. I'm not, maybe it sounds like somebody, oh, it's not a big achievement, but to me it's like, yeah. It is a big achievement because I was able to focus and I did what I need to do, which I already knew I could do.

[02:07:41] Yeah. So that, that thing of like being locked in, right. I didn't finish the climb when I said I'm going in the fall, but I did what I needed to do to get past that point. That was scaring me. So I'm, I'm wondering, is this, is that more of like that kind of thing where you guys are talking about like competition against yourself or pushing yourself or Like, I 

[02:08:02] think 

[02:08:02] Mike: shutting down the 

[02:08:03] Eldar: mind, I think, I think that's the discovery of yourself and what works for you.

[02:08:07] So you finally like detaching yourself. 'cause like, I didn't know what the fuck you were gonna do. Like, you're like, yo, I, you know, like, so you, you found something that works for you and that's the separation between, uh, relying on like externals or something else to now finally bring it into yourself is like, okay, like what empowers me.

[02:08:22] And you found that for that moment. 

[02:08:24] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know what mean, is that what you guys are talking about? That kind of stuff? Like, is that empowerment in the moment? Which I need in order. 

[02:08:30] Eldar: That's, if that's, 

[02:08:31] Mike: no, not to say that I'm gonna fall, but like that the actual thing of the empowerment, I don't know.

[02:08:35] I'm not sure 

[02:08:35] Eldar: how many times you could use that on 

[02:08:36] Mike: yourself. And I tried to use it again after, obviously it didn't work. 

[02:08:39] Toliy: Yeah. Like, for, for me at least, I feel like it's the opposite. 

[02:08:42] Mike: Mm. 

[02:08:44] Toliy: For me, because I, I, I feel like the, the example that you're, you're painting here is like the negative self. You had negative self-talk.

[02:08:51] Mm-hmm. And you used like a, um, 

[02:08:54] Eldar: a reverse 

[02:08:54] Toliy: psychology. Yeah. Like e either like the mantra, like the mantra of like, I'm gonna fall or like, it's, it's like an optimistic, more like a thing. And you, and you like ran away from your thoughts, I feel like in that mo mo moment 

[02:09:08] Katherine: mm-hmm. 

[02:09:08] Toliy: Versus like you, like you didn't, like, your thoughts were overwhelming you, so you weren't able to do something.

[02:09:13] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:09:14] Toliy: So then you used, for example, that mantra at, at at that time. Yeah. To, to overcome that. Mm-hmm. 

[02:09:20] Eldar: Um, 

[02:09:20] Toliy: but I think, 

[02:09:21] Eldar: I'm not sure if it was a mantra though. I think, I think it was a straight up challenge to himself. It's just like, 

[02:09:25] Toliy: no, but 

[02:09:25] Mike: he's 

[02:09:25] Eldar: saying, I'm bro, you scared of falling. Alright, let's go fall.

[02:09:28] That's what he said. 

[02:09:29] Mike: It was a challenge. It was me. Like, it was a challenge to my negative self thought thoughts. I was saying, oh, don't do this. You're gonna fall. I'm like, yes. Wait, shut the fuck up. I'm gonna go fall. 

[02:09:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:09:39] Mike: What are you gonna say now? Fuck. Yeah. Like, what are you gonna say now? 

[02:09:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:09:41] Toliy: No, but you were saying at first that you believed that you for sure know what to do, right?

[02:09:46] Mike: Yeah. I knew exactly what to do. 

[02:09:48] Eldar: No, in regards to, in regards to like what, what the, what the, like the solution to 

[02:09:51] Mike: solve is the solution to overcoming that to go and fall wall. Because now if you, if you already set to fall 

[02:09:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:09:58] Mike: What is the guy gonna tell you? What is your like negative self-talk or fear gonna tell you or you're gonna fall, but like Yeah.

[02:10:04] The thing is, I was 100% like, I don't know how to explain it, but I know you guys have felt this, like when you say something and you're a thousand percent convinced 

[02:10:11] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:10:11] Mike: That you're going, like, you are convinced that's it. Mm-hmm. It's like you're dead. Sure. You fucking put your life on the line for this, this statement.

[02:10:19] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:10:19] Mike: Because you're so convinced. Mm-hmm. That's how I felt. 

[02:10:22] Toliy: You were gonna do it right? 

[02:10:24] Mike: That I was gonna go there. 

[02:10:25] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:10:26] Mike: And I, my intention was not obviously to go and fall. Like obviously I didn't go up there and just, okay, I'm gonna fall. 

[02:10:32] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:10:32] Mike: But my intention was to shut that guy down that was telling me, but why 

[02:10:35] Toliy: did you need to tell him that you were gonna fall?

[02:10:38] Mike: So she was very loud because he was loud in my head and he was trying to tell me like, oh, this is scary. This is too high. 

[02:10:44] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:10:44] Mike: So I said, okay, this is too scary to cry. We're gonna fall, let's go. And now he has no power. What is he gonna throw at me when I'm up there? 

[02:10:51] Eldar: I thought, I thought it was good. 

[02:10:52] Toliy: Yeah.

[02:10:53] Mike: I thought that was good. 

[02:10:54] Toliy: Yeah. I just feel that, that like, 

[02:10:55] Mike: he faced it. 

[02:10:56] Toliy: Yeah. Like, I don't think he actually believed that he was gonna fall, obviously. Like he, he believed that he's gonna do it. 

[02:11:02] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:11:02] Toliy: Um, but the, but the same, like, 

[02:11:05] Eldar: well, I think the falling is actually, like, in that moment is actually a good thing.

[02:11:08] It's like reaffirming, like, okay, so what? 

[02:11:10] Toliy: Okay. 

[02:11:11] Eldar: You know what I mean? Like, we, we've been here before, like we fall all the time. Like 

[02:11:15] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:11:15] Eldar: Like rock climbing is all about falling. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know what I mean? So if you haven't, like, maybe solidified that in your mind that like you're gonna fall and potentially maybe hurt yourself.

[02:11:24] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[02:11:25] Eldar: Like, you're an idiot, you know? 

[02:11:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:11:27] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? And I think that's, he's facing that idiot is to say like, like this part of the gig, bro. Like 

[02:11:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:11:33] Eldar: Because that also leads to what he was like, even unconvincing himself saying like, do we even like this sport? Like, what, what are we doing here?

[02:11:39] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:11:39] Eldar: Like, that's what that continues to. You know? 

[02:11:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:11:42] Eldar: So now he's kinda like chopping out his own knees here and telling him like, look, this is, we gotta like, just fix it. 

[02:11:48] Mike: Yeah. Like the thing is 

[02:11:49] mm-hmm. 

[02:11:50] Mike: It's a 

[02:11:51] Eldar: fear. 

[02:11:51] Mike: It's fear. There's two people that come there. Like, although was saying, I go there and I'm excited some days I'm so, so excited.

[02:11:57] I'm like, new climbs. I want to see what's new. 

[02:11:59] Eldar: What can 

[02:11:59] Mike: you do? Like, see what I can do. You know, like I do want to challenge myself, right? Yeah. I generally, like, I think we, like, we all get exci, like we get excited about other stuff, like even basketball, right? Yeah. We get excited and some days you come, you like, oh, actually I'm like, kind of shot.

[02:12:13] Eldar: Yeah, 

[02:12:13] Mike: whatever. But I come there, I'm very excited, right? Mm-hmm. 

[02:12:16] Eldar: But 

[02:12:17] Mike: when I come up to certain climbs where like, I'm intimidated, that excitement goes away and the fear comes in. So I'm having this constant art, like fight between the person who's genuinely excited and the person who's genuinely scared.

[02:12:29] Yeah. Like, he's always like, he's up, up and down. 

[02:12:32] Toliy: No, but, but disappointment. I, I feel like I understand that, and I, and I can give you examples of like, to me, two, two different pe people with like, could have the same outcome, right? Mm-hmm. Person number one, for example, I'm in the game and I definitely like, you know, I'm doing those stupid past things, or like mm-hmm.

[02:12:49] I'm not shooting when I'm open, or like mm-hmm. Whatever it is. And we're in like a competitive, like league game with re referees or everything. 

[02:12:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:12:56] Toliy: Right? Um, there's stakes of the line. So like, to me it's like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to do something because I feel like the, the like. The risk of me, for example, shooting this shot, or it's gonna miss, it's gonna be a bad shot.

[02:13:09] Mm-hmm. People are gonna say like, yo, why are you shooting that? Yeah. You know, like, you're also not technically supposed to shoot those like Yeah. Like that, you know? So like, um, but I could get, for example, motivation from you 

[02:13:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:13:22] Toliy: Or like affirmation from you. 

[02:13:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:13:24] Toliy: And then I can say like, and there's been times where I'm like, yo, fuck it.

[02:13:27] I'm just gonna shoot. And then like, if I miss and everyone judges me, not listen to myself. Yeah. What, whatever happens ha happens. 

[02:13:32] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[02:13:33] Toliy: And I do that and I get good outcomes. 

[02:13:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:13:36] Toliy: Right? 

[02:13:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:13:37] Toliy: So that to me is like one version of me. 

[02:13:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:13:39] Toliy: Right. But then there's also a different version of me where I go into the game and I'm playing, like I'm playing chess, like I'm playing like a puzzle.

[02:13:47] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:13:47] Toliy: And I'm the one that like, I'm like a, like a tactician in it, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, I'm like, 

[02:13:52] Eldar: yeah. 

[02:13:52] Toliy: Like I'm in the game. 

[02:13:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:13:54] Toliy: And I'm just like, I like, yeah. Like I'm physically like in, in it. Mm-hmm. And my mind is in it, and I'm able to, and I don't need to turn off my, my mind. Yeah. In those moments to succeed, I'm actually using my mind.

[02:14:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:14:06] Toliy: Because I'm just extracting everything. I see everything that's happening. Mm-hmm. I know the screens to set, I know where to go. I know everything. So like, I, I don't need to like say like, like, like here goes nothing, for example. Mm-hmm. Like, fuck it to get what I want. Yeah. But there are times where I need to do that.

[02:14:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:14:22] Toliy: Because I can't. Use my mind in, in those moments as like a resources. 

[02:14:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:14:27] Toliy: But sometimes the outcomes are the same. 

[02:14:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:14:30] Toliy: But do you see how like that those are two different 

[02:14:32] Eldar: I Yeah, they are different. Yeah. 

[02:14:33] Toliy: Yeah. Like where I'm like, like I'm, I'm, I'm solving like an interesting problem almost in the game.

[02:14:38] Yeah. 

[02:14:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:14:38] Toliy: Right. And I don't need to like, like, yeah. Like, I, I don't need like more motivations, for example. Yeah. So like, yeah. Like I'm in it, 

[02:14:45] Eldar: you in it. 

[02:14:45] Toliy: And that to me is like my ideal state, of 

[02:14:47] Eldar: course. 

[02:14:48] Toliy: Was I always, that's independent to do that. No. Like Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. Like many times I definitely, um, was like, you know, down or like not confident or whatever, or we're gonna some new place or something.

[02:14:59] Eldar: Yeah. But Mike, see Mike's thing is, is definitely like an extreme thing, you know what I'm saying? Versus yours, you know, you're definitely more accustomed to competition and like believing in yourself versus 

[02:15:09] Toliy: over, over, over time. But I didn't like, I, no, I didn't have that in the beginning. No, I know. Yeah. I was, I was that same extreme weight 

[02:15:15] Eldar: do.

[02:15:16] Yeah. You 

[02:15:16] Toliy: know? Yeah. Like, yeah. Like I couldn't get a bunch of consecutive shots and I'm, you know, playing in the wreck or something like that on my own. Yeah, yeah. You know, but Yeah. In the games, I was always, you know, 

[02:15:25] Eldar: and that was your transition to be able to then go out there in public and create your reality like you wanted.

[02:15:30] Yeah. And you did. 

[02:15:31] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:15:31] Eldar: You know, and Yeah. I believed it because I've seen it, like 

[02:15:34] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:15:34] Eldar: I wouldn't, I wouldn't encourage you if you 

[02:15:36] Toliy: didn't see. Yeah. I was never able to understand, what are you talking about? You know, like I was never able to bridge that gap that you saw. 

[02:15:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:15:41] Toliy: That, to me there was a gap to you.

[02:15:43] There was no gap. 

[02:15:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:15:44] Toliy: But like, yeah. I couldn't bridge it. Yeah. You know? 

[02:15:48] Eldar: And you did. 

[02:15:50] Toliy: Yeah. O over time. 

[02:15:52] Eldar: Yeah. That's, that's why it's gonna take overtime too. 

[02:15:54] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that, 

[02:15:55] Eldar: that's what I, for you to be able to stand on on your own and be like, okay, I know who I am here. You know, like, what, what are we doing?

[02:16:00] You know, why are we pussying out every time? You know? Yeah. 

[02:16:02] Toliy: Like, I, I, I, I was convinced that the, the, the pass or like, not shooting or like, you know, almost like hiding within the game was the right move. Mm-hmm. At, at those times. You know, 

[02:16:12] Eldar: also, you know, there's like, uh, you know, I, I remember back in the competition of the rock climbing, I haven't had little jitters like that in a long time.

[02:16:19] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:16:20] Eldar: Like, basketball doesn't do it for me 'cause I've been doing it for so long. Mm-hmm. But I had the little jitters. 

[02:16:24] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:16:25] Eldar: And like, but I've familiar with them because I've seen, I've heard of, I know them. It happens 

[02:16:29] Toliy: like a playoff game or something. 

[02:16:31] Eldar: Yeah. It could be real. I have the same 

[02:16:33] Mike: jitters 

[02:16:33] Eldar: a little bit.

[02:16:33] Right. So Yeah. But you probably have them crazy intense. 

[02:16:36] Mike: No. 

[02:16:37] Eldar: Where they dictate certain things, you know? No. Like, 

[02:16:38] Mike: good ones. 

[02:16:39] Eldar: Like, 

[02:16:39] Mike: I'm excited. Like I know. I'm 

[02:16:40] Eldar: going No, those were nervous ones. 

[02:16:42] Mike: Nervous ones. 

[02:16:42] Eldar: Nervous ones. Oh, okay. Butterflies. Butterflies. Yeah. You know? 

[02:16:45] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:16:45] Eldar: Uh, but I tell myself, I'm just gonna go and try and as I start doing it, like your body starts to respond as well.

[02:16:52] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[02:16:53] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. So like, there has to be maybe a level of trust of your own body as well. Where it's like your body will come through whether you like it or not. Yeah. When you get on that wall, 

[02:17:01] Toliy: bro, is that if, if you're, um, like too nervous, for example. 

[02:17:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:17:05] Toliy: You can have a, a, a, uh, a, a huge adrenaline 

[02:17:08] Eldar: dump.

[02:17:09] Dump. Yeah. Like 

[02:17:09] Toliy: where then you can't do anything 

[02:17:10] Eldar: down. You 

[02:17:10] Toliy: can shut down. Your body is just like shut, shut down. Yeah. 

[02:17:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:17:13] Toliy: Because you hype things so much and you're so scared, or you're so like that. Mm-hmm. But yeah. Ver ver versus what you're talking 

[02:17:19] Eldar: about. Yeah. 

[02:17:20] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:17:20] Eldar: You try and you see that the, you know, you start getting warmed up, obviously.

[02:17:23] Mm-hmm. And then slowly, slowly, you're like, oh, shit, I'm in it. And then like, you're just on autopilot. That's how, that's how in the competition I was like, yo, I wanna fucking win this thing. Mm-hmm. In my head. 

[02:17:31] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:17:31] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[02:17:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:17:32] Eldar: I was delusively, I, I was delusional going 

[02:17:35] Mike: for it. A thing about it, it, 

[02:17:36] Eldar: you know, 

[02:17:37] Mike: I don't have it in rock climbing.

[02:17:38] Like some, maybe some days I would be delusional when we play basketball. 

[02:17:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:17:41] Mike: You know? 

[02:17:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:17:42] Mike: Where I would feel definitely very confident and good and like, you know mm-hmm. All that stuff. But in the flow state, in the flow state, I had those for sure. Yeah. Um, but yeah, in this thing, yeah. It's also like, yeah.

[02:17:56] Eldar: But I'm saying like, it's also normal. Like obviously it's normal to be a little bit nervous, a little bit shy or whatever, but like, trust yourself, trust your abilities. Like how many times do you have to show yourself that you are strong enough? You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, you've done stuff, you know?

[02:18:08] Mike: Yeah. The thing is though, take part, you're here to take over. Yeah. Yeah. The, the pre-program stuff, it's, it's strong. 

[02:18:13] Eldar: It's strong. 

[02:18:13] Mike: So I'm trying to find like the way to counteract those, because I also know that Yeah. I can do things that are very difficult. Yeah. And rock climbing. 

[02:18:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:18:22] Mike: Crazy stuff. I 

[02:18:23] Eldar: know.

[02:18:23] Mike: Like I'm a big guy. Yeah. But I'm also strong guy. Yeah. You know, but when I get over there, the other guy who lives there, he's like, yo, you're not strong. You're, and you're, that's not for you. 

[02:18:34] Eldar: Uhhuh, you 

[02:18:35] Mike: know, he starts invading my like head. 

[02:18:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:18:38] Mike: You know, and 

[02:18:39] Eldar: he invades your strength 

[02:18:40] Mike: and it's, yeah. Like, he takes, he is like, you feel like I could barely do this, but it's like, but ultimately, like, I could do this so easy.

[02:18:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:18:47] Mike: When I'm not in my head, this is too easy. 

[02:18:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:18:50] Mike: But if I'm in my head, this is too hard. And I, and that, that battle, it's like, that it, that fight is always, 

[02:18:55] Eldar: that's why I think, I think rock climbing is so cool. 

[02:18:57] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:18:58] Eldar: It's such a cool, like, you know. You go inside yourself. 

[02:19:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:19:02] Eldar: You know, it allows you for all those moments to really see yourself of who you are.

[02:19:06] You know what I mean? 

[02:19:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:19:07] Eldar: And it's very challenging, so Yeah. It's not, it's no joke. This shit is no joke. 

[02:19:10] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:19:11] Eldar: You know? 

[02:19:12] Mike: So what, like, yeah. Like what is it just like, 

[02:19:14] Eldar: keep going, keep keep, you are on the right path. 

[02:19:16] Mike: Well, I think so too, but like, 

[02:19:17] Eldar: you know, 

[02:19:18] Mike: um, 

[02:19:18] Eldar: I think that, uh, 

[02:19:20] Mike: is it like silencing those thoughts, learning how to not let them come in?

[02:19:24] Eldar: Like I told you? No, I think what you did with the example of fear and say, yo, we're gonna fall. I think that's what you need to do. 

[02:19:29] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:19:29] Eldar: You need to, you need to say it to yourself out loud and, and pretty much laugh at it. And then, and then, um, tell 'em we're doing ups. 

[02:19:36] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Like, 

[02:19:38] Eldar: a little bit delusively.

[02:19:40] Mike: A little bit delusional. Yeah. 

[02:19:41] Eldar: Yeah, 

[02:19:42] Mike: yeah. Yeah. It's like, um, 

[02:19:44] Eldar: you know what I mean? Where it's like if you, if you, if you're stuck on twos and threes Yeah. Your ass gotta be on fours and fives. 

[02:19:50] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:19:51] Eldar: Like I told you that six, it's like that was for you. Like you needed that. 

[02:19:54] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. I know that, like, I also like understand that like I'm only a two or three climber because that guy's telling me that I can only be on twos.

[02:20:02] Right? 

[02:20:03] Eldar: That's right. But 

[02:20:03] Mike: if he wasn't there, I have enough strength enough to like Yeah. Technique. 

[02:20:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:20:08] Mike: That I can do it. 

[02:20:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:20:09] Mike: But I'm fighting him and he's like, I'm carrying extra a hundred pounds. 

[02:20:12] Eldar: That's what I'm saying. 

[02:20:13] Mike: And it's like, well now you're definitely not doing three fours. That, or fives, whatever.

[02:20:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:20:17] Mike: So yeah, that weight, that phy mental weight, it's carrying over to the physical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, like I think, yeah, like speaking it out loud. To you help to like dispel him his power. It took away from like his Yeah. I'm not, I'm saying his, but like, you know. 

[02:20:34] Eldar: Yeah. I don't even know what the fuck you want about.

[02:20:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:20:36] Eldar: You know what I mean? Because you said it so randomly. 

[02:20:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:20:38] Eldar: You know what I mean? Because, but 

[02:20:39] Mike: when I said you didn't understand it, 

[02:20:40] Eldar: no, I, then I got it. Obviously you, but then I was like, wait, what the fuck you talking about? You know what I mean? Like 

[02:20:44] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:20:45] Eldar: I get like what you said, I got it. Like, I you like you, you lit up.

[02:20:48] Mike: Yeah, I lit up because I felt like by saying that I won that battle for that moment. 

[02:20:52] Eldar: Yeah. Because I'm not in your head. I'm not reading your thoughts or your mind, so like you're going through some other shit, you know what I 

[02:20:57] Mike: mean? Yeah. Well, I'm trying to like fight him. 

[02:20:59] Eldar: He is, you know, like one time we were climbing, we did the whole session and I, we come out, out of it, like, he goes, bro, you don't understand what I was going through.

[02:21:07] You know, like, yeah. He's like, yo, I like, I quit the sport in my head. Like, he's like, I'm done with the shit. 

[02:21:11] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:21:11] Eldar: That's what he was going through. I'm like climbing and shit. I'm chilling, hanging out with these, you know, lizard monkeys up there. 

[02:21:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:21:18] Eldar: And he's over there fucking doom and glooming it, you know?

[02:21:20] Mike: Yeah. That's why he's quitting. Why? That's why I, I also come back because I'm learning so much. 

[02:21:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:21:24] Mike: But I'm also like, Hey, the learning is kind of painful. Like, I wanna have more fun too. 

[02:21:28] Eldar: You should, man. That's what I'm saying. Like, you gotta catch up, man. 

[02:21:30] Mike: Yeah. Like I, I'm happy that I'm learning. Yeah. But now like, hey, let's.

[02:21:35] Also have fun and not let that guy be in my head all the time. Yeah. You know, for sure. Even like the breathing calm me down my breath. I don't know if it's like, it works. Is it good? Is it, obviously breathing doesn't really like help? Or does it help, like, I don't know. 

[02:21:49] Eldar: Oh, 

[02:21:49] Mike: is it a placebo thing? Like 

[02:21:50] Eldar: now that you, now, now that you brought, uh, breathing into, into what's his name?

[02:21:54] Uh mm-hmm. 

[02:21:55] Mike: The, the, 

[02:21:56] Eldar: I remember I, I watched a documentary. Mm-hmm. And there was only one more thing that you can try. I don't know if you're willing to do it, 

[02:22:01] Mike: reading it outta your ass. 

[02:22:03] Eldar: No, no, no. You, so what you do is you go to this place in Peru, it's in a jungle, and you take this thing called ayahuasca.

[02:22:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:22:13] Eldar: And I might unblock it. 

[02:22:15] Mike: No, I'm definitely not willing to do that. 

[02:22:17] Eldar: I'm just saying you do have that option. Yes, totally. Or no? 

[02:22:19] Mike: No. 

[02:22:20] Eldar: Alright. 

[02:22:21] Mike: Yeah. Like the calm, well, that doesn't work. Calm downs down the breath. 

[02:22:23] Eldar: Yeah. Like, 

[02:22:24] Mike: you know, like 

[02:22:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:22:25] Mike: So like, slow down the thinking, the overwhelming thoughts. Yeah.

[02:22:28] Yeah. That's, that's what I said. But, all 

[02:22:29] Eldar: right. 

[02:22:30] Mike: I don't know if it, it's like, uh, 

[02:22:31] Eldar: yeah. Good, good. 

[02:22:34] Mike: Take off the nervousness of that. 

[02:22:36] Eldar: Yeah. And 

[02:22:36] Mike: focus on something else. 

[02:22:37] Eldar: And, and, uh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And maybe you feed off of other people's energy. 'cause there are some pussies out there too, man. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

[02:22:48] I haven't, for example, is one of those pussies. 

[02:22:50] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:22:51] Eldar: You know what I mean? And like all the kids 

[02:22:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:22:53] Eldar: They do that too. Well, like if you start hearing their shit 

[02:22:56] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. You kind of 

[02:22:56] Eldar: ride 

[02:22:57] Mike: with them and you vibe with them. 

[02:22:58] Eldar: Yeah. Don't, don't vibe with 

[02:22:59] Mike: them. Yeah, I know. I know. 

[02:22:59] Eldar: You know what I mean? So like, 

[02:23:00] Mike: yeah.

[02:23:01] I, and I have a tendency to do 

[02:23:02] that. 

[02:23:03] Eldar: You do have a to see? 

[02:23:04] Mike: I do. Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:23:04] Eldar: I have a tendency to look at those crazy girls like, or crazy guys that like 

[02:23:09] Mike: Yeah, 

[02:23:09] Eldar: they're doing wild shit. And I'm like, I'm inspired. 

[02:23:12] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:23:12] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm looking at them. 

[02:23:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:23:14] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[02:23:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:23:15] Eldar: I tend to find the person who's positive 

[02:23:18] Mike: Yeah.

[02:23:18] Eldar: Who's like, who's on their shit. They 

[02:23:19] Mike: fucking, yeah. I'm m towards more how I feel inside in those battles. 

[02:23:23] Eldar: I know. That's what I'm saying. That's 

[02:23:24] Mike: another 

[02:23:24] Eldar: thing because there are plenty of negative motherfuckers there too. 

[02:23:27] Mike: Yeah. That's why putting themselves down, that's why I think it's good we're bonding with those, with those guys infiltrating, because like I can serve a positive role and I can push them and maybe I also can, 

[02:23:35] Eldar: can do that as well, 

[02:23:36] Mike: can do that for myself and not like, get stuck in that thing.

[02:23:38] Eldar: Yeah, exactly. 

[02:23:39] Mike: Yeah. For sure. 

[02:23:41] Eldar: And you know, one of them, the one that we were videotaping, he, uh, at some point he, he brought it into our whole saying, saying like, you don't like, that means I didn't want it, you know? Yeah. Like, I didn't grab because I didn't want it, you know? He kept saying it to you, you like, yo, you don't want grab that thing.

[02:23:53] Yeah. And he got off. He started telling all his friends too. Like, yo, you didn't want it, bro, because if you wanted it, you would've grabbed it. 

[02:23:58] Mike: Yeah. You bothering him. 

[02:24:01] Eldar: Yeah, I was bothering him. So now it's in his head. So he applied it to himself and now he's applying to his friends. 

[02:24:05] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:24:06] Eldar: It's funny to watch.

[02:24:07] Mike: Yeah, 

[02:24:07] Eldar: for sure. Well, that's a good thing. 

[02:24:08] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:24:09] Eldar: All right. Any final thoughts on this? Attention, how we got to here? All wask and everything, all this other good stuff? 

[02:24:14] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:24:15] Eldar: Joe's gonna give it to us, man, 

[02:24:17] Mike: Joe. Yeah. Well, we're gonna see him Sunday. 

[02:24:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:24:21] Mike: He's got it. You know. Save it. 

[02:24:24] Eldar: Oh, wow. Actually, we are Joe, someone in the chat asking questions.

[02:24:27] All right, fine. Uh, if they're still in the chat, let's, let's, let's take it, what if you're your own worst enemy and feel so worthless, there's no point in improving. 

[02:24:36] Mike: Oh man. 

[02:24:37] Eldar: Oh, wow. I 

[02:24:37] Mike: know that guy. 

[02:24:37] Eldar: You know that guy. 

[02:24:38] Mike: I think I know that guy. 

[02:24:39] Eldar: Or if you've gone past the point of negative self-talk, but have fallen into self-hatred.

[02:24:45] Mike: Mm. 

[02:24:47] Eldar: That's a good question. 

[02:24:47] Mike: Mm. Who, who, who's asking this yourself? 

[02:24:51] Eldar: Uh, just person in the chat. Joe. Joe is actually moderating it. 

[02:24:54] Mike: Oh, okay. Nice. 

[02:24:55] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so what do you think? 

[02:24:59] Mike: What, what, what, what if you gone past the point of negative self-talk and self hatred, 

[02:25:02] Eldar: and now you have self hatred? It's a good question.

[02:25:06] Toliy: Yeah. I think that like the, the, uh, the best way to overcome that is to, um, bring that out into real life and, and, uh, convince someone else of it. 

[02:25:16] Mike: Oh, yeah, that's, yeah. That's we're saying. 

[02:25:18] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:25:19] Mike: That for sure. Once you speak those things out loud that are in your head, you don't, you can't give them power in that moment anymore.

[02:25:26] Mm-hmm. So, yeah. So what do you suggest for them to 

[02:25:28] Eldar: actually do 

[02:25:29] Toliy: what? 

[02:25:30] Mike: Just to, just to, 

[02:25:31] Toliy: well, like, they're, they're, they're saying, Hey, you have self hatred. Like, my challenges, I like, I don't believe you, you don't actually hate yourself. 

[02:25:38] Eldar: Hmm. Okay. 

[02:25:39] Toliy: Prove, prove to me that you hate yourself and how, and yeah. In that way that you're talking about it.

[02:25:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:25:44] Toliy: Like, convince me of it the way that you are telling me, allegedly, that you feel it. 

[02:25:49] Eldar: Mm. 

[02:25:49] Toliy: So I can see like, wow, this person is really like, 

[02:25:52] Eldar: really 

[02:25:52] Toliy: bad to themselves. 

[02:25:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:25:53] Toliy: Right. They're really bad to the himself. Yeah. 

[02:25:54] Eldar: It is. Like when a cousin was saying that like, oh, he's a piece of shit. He's depressed.

[02:25:58] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:25:58] Eldar: But he's still putting on gel in his hair and, um, and putting, tying his socks. Tying his socks the way he does to be stylish. 

[02:26:05] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

[02:26:06] Eldar: So you said, so, so what is this condition called this person?

[02:26:13] Toliy: The, the condition? 

[02:26:14] Eldar: Yeah. Why is this person is like, making this conclusion if you go past the point, like they're under this impression that they've gone past this 

[02:26:23] Toliy: point. Well, I think that like, it creates a convenient excuse to not, to not do, like, to not, you know, 

[02:26:28] Eldar: try. Oh, really not to act or try. 

[02:26:30] Toliy: Yeah.

[02:26:30] Eldar: That's a convenient excuse. 

[02:26:31] Toliy: Yeah. Well, like you hate yourself, so why are you gonna improve? 

[02:26:35] Eldar: Hmm. And then you, this is, this is, this is what you think they're looking for and that out. 

[02:26:41] Toliy: Um, well, like obviously like they, they don't believe that. Um, 

[02:26:44] Eldar: yeah, you, yeah. 

[02:26:45] Toliy: But um, yeah, I feel like, 

[02:26:48] Eldar: do you need, do they need to believe this in order, in order to make progress on what you just said?

[02:26:52] Toliy: To 

[02:26:53] Eldar: believe what? To believe what you just said. 

[02:26:55] Toliy: That, that they're having an excuse for it. 

[02:26:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:26:58] Toliy: Well, I think they need to like that, that that's next step. If they think about that enough, it creates like a virus in their system too. Start slowly challenging themselves on their like beliefs, 

[02:27:07] Eldar: whether 

[02:27:08] Toliy: not this beliefs.

[02:27:08] Yeah. But yeah, they like, they ultimately need, need, need someone in their life to like, to be able to bounce these claim claims off of or mm-hmm. You know, people say, oh, I'm a piece of shit. I'm this 

[02:27:17] Eldar: Yeah, 

[02:27:18] Toliy: I'm that. 

[02:27:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:27:19] Toliy: But then, yeah, but then they, yeah. You say they gel their hair, they do this or they mm-hmm.

[02:27:22] They do that. 

[02:27:23] Eldar: Yeah. They check themselves in the mirror. 

[02:27:24] Toliy: Yeah. Like, come on. 

[02:27:25] Eldar: More 

[02:27:26] Toliy: than, you know. 

[02:27:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:27:27] Toliy: Like, it's like that, that, that, that's the person who, who really cares. Yeah. You know? So I think that like, they're just defining things probably in, in incorrect ways. 

[02:27:37] Eldar: Hmm. 

[02:27:37] Toliy: You know? 

[02:27:38] Eldar: Interesting. 

[02:27:38] Toliy: Um, 'cause I don't, because Yeah.

[02:27:40] Like, yeah. 

[02:27:43] Eldar: Mike, what do you think about that? 

[02:27:46] Mike: Yeah. Well, like, like for me, like what worked and when I'm having those negative self thoughts. 

[02:27:50] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Well, first of all, do you believe this person, like, totally, totally doesn't believe this person? Would you believe this person when they say that? 

[02:27:58] Mike: No. I'm not sure why.

[02:27:59] I'm not sure if it matters, like, yeah. Yeah. I believe it or not. 

[02:28:02] Eldar: Okay. 

[02:28:03] Mike: Like in the long run. 

[02:28:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:28:06] Mike: I don't think he has to prove, prove it to anybody. I think once you say what you say, you're gonna both feel how ridiculous that is. 

[02:28:11] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:28:12] Mike: When I tell you like, Hey, this is how I feel, you're gonna be like, are you an idiot?

[02:28:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:28:15] Toliy: Tell 

[02:28:15] Mike: and be like, you're right. Am I an idiot? 

[02:28:18] Toliy: Like the person who asked that question. 

[02:28:20] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:28:21] Toliy: Why are they in this chat? Oh, they hit themselves. Why are you trying to learn something or listen to something? 

[02:28:27] Mike: Oh shit. That's a good question, 

[02:28:30] Toliy: right? 

[02:28:30] Eldar: Yeah, 

[02:28:30] Toliy: actually, right? 

[02:28:31] Mike: Yeah. Actually, yeah. 

[02:28:32] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[02:28:32] Mike: They're trying to figure something out.

[02:28:34] Toliy: Yeah. Why are they anybody who's trying to figure something? Self development. 

[02:28:36] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:28:37] Toliy: Podcast or why are they like, listen, li 

[02:28:39] Mike: listen. Well, yeah, but also it's like the expression of you hate yourself. You don't always hate yourself. 

[02:28:43] Toliy: Okay. 

[02:28:43] Mike: When you're beating your balog, 

[02:28:44] Toliy: no, but they ask. 

[02:28:45] Mike: No, no, that's a very good question.

[02:28:46] You see that is a very good distinction here that yeah, sure. They don't always hate themselves. Yeah. 

[02:28:51] Eldar: But they're making a general statement. Yeah. 

[02:28:53] Toliy: They're saying, 

[02:28:53] Eldar: so they have to revise their statement and say 

[02:28:55] Mike: Sometimes. 

[02:28:55] Eldar: Sometimes, 

[02:28:56] Mike: yeah, 

[02:28:56] Eldar: I have these feelings. 

[02:28:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:28:58] Toliy: Yes. But they make it seem that like, hey, 

[02:29:00] Eldar: they make it 

[02:29:00] Toliy: do boom.

[02:29:00] I always hate myself. Yeah. And for someone that always hates themselves. Yeah. What do you do then? 

[02:29:04] Mike: Yeah. But they need to understand that distinction that there's sometimes they feel that way and 

[02:29:09] Toliy: not well, yeah, but they're not asking the question to say like, they're, they're not asking if that's the reality of the 

[02:29:15] Mike: situation.

[02:29:15] But that's, that's because they never logically looked at it like, actually what's happening? The person who's using these tactics. 

[02:29:21] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:29:22] Mike: These has these belief systems. They're not relying on logic. It just, 

[02:29:26] Toliy: well, 

[02:29:26] Mike: no, you can't expect 'em to say, oh, yeah, you know, I sometimes hate myself. They're gonna speak in extremes, because of 

[02:29:31] Eldar: course, it's 

[02:29:32] Mike: just a natural person to like, speaking extreme and not using logic is like, sounds like they go hand.

[02:29:38] Hand. 

[02:29:38] Toliy: No, of course. What I'm saying is that, like, in this scenario, how do you, like, I, I agree with you, but, but you can't like. Prove that to somebody, right? Mm-hmm. So, so I feel like how do you prove to somebody 

[02:29:48] Mike: that you, you can't prove anything to anybody. Yeah. I mean, well, you can't prove it to any, I mean, you 

[02:29:52] Toliy: can't prove 

[02:29:53] Mike: it to them.

[02:29:53] Toliy: I, I, I think what I'm saying, it proves it to like, it, it can, it it challenges them to act, to, to find holes in their in mm-hmm. In their arguments. In Yeah. 

[02:30:01] Mike: In 

[02:30:02] Toliy: their statements. 

[02:30:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:30:03] Toliy: But like, they're gonna not belie, they're, they're like, they're not gonna understand, like, yeah. I feel like what, what you're saying as far as them, like not being lo logical, that like, with, without you showing them the reason, 

[02:30:14] Mike: the thing is, when you, what's not logic thing in the internal world, logic is not a required, but when you have a, like a, not the person to bounce it off of, if that person is paying attention 

[02:30:24] Toliy: Yeah.

[02:30:25] Mike: Then you are gonna have to have logic. 

[02:30:28] Toliy: Yeah. For, for for sure. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I'm 

[02:30:30] Mike: challenging. Yeah. You have to bounce it 

[02:30:32] Toliy: this person Yeah. To whether they 

[02:30:34] Mike: actually, you have to bounce it off of somebody and say what you actually say and then let self, first of all, when you speak it out loud, you actually have to, now you hear it yourself, like what you just said, and then you see how the person receives it.

[02:30:43] That's another thing. And then the person was gonna say like, what the fuck are you talking about, bro? 

[02:30:47] Toliy: Yeah. To me, 

[02:30:48] Mike: you're talking about you wanna go on vacation, you want to go fucking buy a car, you wanna buy a motorcycle. What's self-hatred or whatever, you know, things you have planned for yourself. 

[02:30:55] Toliy: Yeah.

[02:30:56] To me, I don't think it's possible for someone to be in this chat and, and listening for, for any amount of time and completely hate themselves. Like 

[02:31:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:31:06] Toliy: There's just no way. I agree that that makes no sense. 

[02:31:08] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with that. 

[02:31:09] Toliy: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Like, you're not gonna be at the ice cream store, you know, wanting to off, off of yourself, you know?

[02:31:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:31:16] Toliy: Yes, this is true. You're gonna wanna know what flavors they got. 

[02:31:19] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:31:19] Toliy: You know, for, for sure. 

[02:31:21] Mike: It's good. That's not the price when he's making Jar Osh. 

[02:31:24] Toliy: Of course not. 

[02:31:27] Mike: Alright, so final thoughts? I think we addressed 

[02:31:31] Eldar: that. 

[02:31:31] Mike: I think we're good. I mean, I'm good. I have nothing to add. You're 

[02:31:33] Eldar: good. Totally. Um, would, do you suggest yourself, because you, you, you started this because you obviously are trying to unsubscribe yet again, uh, from a, from an identity that's finally, or are aware of that is not serving you.

[02:31:47] Mike: Yes. And are you going back to a dumb phone again? 

[02:31:50] Eldar: Oh my God, Joe. That's Joe's question. That's 

[02:31:52] Mike: Joe's question. 

[02:31:52] Toliy: Yeah. No, no, I'm not. Um, but no, like I am, I'm like, I'm consciously like. Trust me, I still see news all the time. 

[02:32:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:32:03] Toliy: Right. And I still, 

[02:32:05] Eldar: you know, gravitate towards headlines. 

[02:32:06] Toliy: Yeah. I still consume content, obviously, and I'm still doing that, but this whole week I made a conscious effort to, you know 

[02:32:13] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[02:32:13] Toliy: Like, not give any new, I I saw a ton of new news. Trust me. Trust me. There's 

[02:32:17] Eldar: a lot of juicy shit. 

[02:32:18] Toliy: Yeah. There's a lot of juicy shit. 

[02:32:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:32:20] Toliy: You know? 

[02:32:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:32:21] Toliy: But I didn't, I didn't, you know, uh, or I dunno if you guys noticed, but I didn't share any of it. 

[02:32:25] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:32:25] Toliy: I didn't like, oh, 

[02:32:26] Mike: yeah, yeah, 

[02:32:27] Toliy: yeah. You did. I didn't share.

[02:32:28] Mike: Yeah. Oh, 

[02:32:29] Toliy: yeah. I went outta my way to like, like, I, like, I like 

[02:32:32] Mike: news about what? Like, in anything headlines, you know? Oh, headlines, 

[02:32:35] this 

[02:32:35] Mike: happened. That happened, you 

[02:32:36] Toliy: see this? That, yeah. Like, I think I told Elder one, one story I read, but it what? But it wasn't like a break. Like, like, like in news article, the ufc, it was a story.

[02:32:44] Story. There's a bunch of new fights that got booked. 

[02:32:46] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:32:46] Toliy: You, you probably saw 

[02:32:47] Mike: didn't, I thought you didn't, were saying something about I maybe you're not. 

[02:32:51] Eldar: No, I didn't see No, 

[02:32:53] Toliy: no. 

[02:32:53] Eldar: Yeah. But I'm 

[02:32:54] Mike: excited for 

[02:32:55] Eldar: you to share tomorrow. 

[02:32:55] Mike: I think you were saying something about Joe Rogan and Dustin. 'cause I was also like, uh, saw that podcast and I think you were telling us about something.

[02:33:02] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. Like, about, yeah, like about a conversation I heard, but I, but I'm saying that like, oh, I, I wasn't like there, I mean, like, I usually share like, Hey, did you hear this happened? Did you hear that happen? Like, you know. And you 

[02:33:12] Mike: didn't ask all the betting odds for the fights? 

[02:33:15] Toliy: No, 

[02:33:16] Mike: not yet. Okay. 

[02:33:18] Toliy: No, no.

[02:33:18] Like this week, I, I, I definitely made an effort to, um, oh, that's good. To, to, to not, to, to, to do my best to not talk, talk about that. 

[02:33:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:33:28] Toliy: Mm-hmm. But yeah, for me it's a continuous, like a, a a ongoing examination of like, yeah, like what's my relationship with all of this stuff and how is it affecting me?

[02:33:38] And like yeah, I definitely, um, I'm definitely at a point of times where, um, being in control of my attention span is difficult for me. I'm definitely there. 

[02:33:50] Eldar: Okay. Mm-hmm. 

[02:33:51] Toliy: Yeah. I have a hard time. 

[02:33:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:33:53] Toliy: Keeping attention to, um, to, to, to things I wanna do. 

[02:33:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:33:58] Toliy: And to, to do them. Sometimes it's easier for me to do it when I introduce some, like chaos or some crazy busyness.

[02:34:05] Mm-hmm. Like, you know. 

[02:34:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:34:06] Toliy: Pressure. Pressure. Yeah. But I don't want to 

[02:34:09] Eldar: do 

[02:34:09] Toliy: it like that. Yeah. I don't wanna do it like that. Yeah. 

[02:34:11] Eldar: You want a steady, steady, slow flow and go towards the 

[02:34:14] Toliy: direction you Well, yeah. Like the, the, the, the thing with your attention span at the end of the day, like, I think it's all you have.

[02:34:19] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:34:20] Toliy: And if you don't have control over your attention span, then you don't have the con you, you don't have any control 

[02:34:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:34:27] Toliy: Over, over your actions or what you do, what you don't do. So I think that, like, for me, it's like, yeah, it's like a, a fight to regain that good, to slowly be able to more and more, uh, have a very, very choice conscious.

[02:34:39] Like there's a difference between an unconscious choice and a conscious choice in these things. And to have a conscious choice as to like, okay, like I'm gonna watch this right now, this is what I'm gonna do. 

[02:34:49] Eldar: Yep. 

[02:34:49] Toliy: Right. 

[02:34:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:34:50] Toliy: And then, okay, I no longer want, want to dos. I'm gonna do that instead of, yeah. I just constantly unconsciously get pulled into a million different, different 

[02:34:57] Eldar: places.

[02:34:57] Yeah, 

[02:34:58] Toliy: yeah, yeah. Different directions. Good. And then it results to this like, yeah, like, like obviously a, like a life that I don't want, you 

[02:35:04] know, 

[02:35:05] Eldar: Mike, uh, these are the sprouts that were, that we were, uh, what's his name, watering a long time ago. Or the seeds that we've planted a long time ago. These are the little sprouts we've been talking about this.

[02:35:14] Mm-hmm. We've been raising awareness about this 

[02:35:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:35:16] Eldar: And how it was negatively impacting him. 

[02:35:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:35:18] Eldar: Watching the tablet, tv. Mm-hmm. Phone. Yeah. All these different things that we was, you know, that he's finally like, associating, having the associ association where like, yo 

[02:35:26] Toliy: fall. Yeah. You know what's funny? Um, a a, a lot of this, um, stuff to, to me that that's like, um, um, like a lot of these things I, I, I notice with my attention and being able to like, and, and wanting to, to, to, to control in particular ways to, to me it's like a recent, um, spark because it's funny, like, there's like a lot of topics that like we could talk about.

[02:35:54] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:35:55] Toliy: Right? Like I'm saying me, me and you specifically. 

[02:35:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:35:57] Toliy: And, um, I don't feel like there's like, um, like anything that like, um, um, where I'm not confident that either like, you know, we'll figure it out or that like we could like, you know, like discuss 

[02:36:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:36:13] Toliy: But there's been one that's like, you know, that that has been like a, like, like boiling in my head.

[02:36:19] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:36:19] Toliy: You know, for, for, I don't know, like de definitely like several months where I, where I feel it. There's like a, um, like where there, there's like, like I feel like I'm, I'm like, I'm being challenged in a particular way and I can't like a, like a deliver audit. 

[02:36:35] Eldar: Mm. 

[02:36:35] Toliy: You know? Yeah. Do you, do you, do you know what it is or No, 

[02:36:38] Eldar: no, 

[02:36:39] Toliy: no.

[02:36:40] Well, I feel like, um, like there, there, okay. There, there, there's like a particular point of like, um, where like there's something that I need to do and I need to understand it a particular way. 

[02:36:55] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:36:55] Toliy: Right. And then I need to be able to share and explain in a particular way. 

[02:36:59] Eldar: Well, yeah. 

[02:37:00] Toliy: To, to, um, um, to communicate it to like you 

[02:37:04] Eldar: Yeah.

[02:37:04] Toliy: You know, like, like obviously with like the sales stuff. 

[02:37:07] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That I 

[02:37:08] Toliy: know. 

[02:37:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:37:09] Toliy: And I feel like I always get to the same like line where it's like, you're, you like, your feedback's like Yeah. I don't understand what what Yeah. What you're saying. 

[02:37:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:37:17] Toliy: Right. 

[02:37:18] Mike: Yeah. And 

[02:37:18] Toliy: I feel like 

[02:37:19] Mike: to 

[02:37:19] Toliy: when 

[02:37:20] Mike: going the topic, 

[02:37:21] Toliy: what 

[02:37:22] Mike: might as to go on another topic after this then.

[02:37:23] Okay. 

[02:37:24] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like when I get there 

[02:37:26] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[02:37:27] Toliy: Um, what, when I get there, it's like, like the feeling I have internally is that like, yo, you, you can't explain like what, what you're saying. 

[02:37:36] Mm-hmm. 

[02:37:36] Toliy: And obviously I have a frustration. 

[02:37:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:37:38] Toliy: With, with that. Like, it's not a good like, uh, feeling to like have, you know, so to, to, to me when I examine like that kind of stuff, like I know to be able to, um.

[02:37:51] To, to do that and accomplish what I want to accomplish. 

[02:37:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:37:53] Toliy: I know that there's a particular, um, attention that isn't there right now that that is required. 

[02:38:00] Mike: That required, yeah. 

[02:38:00] Toliy: Yeah. I, I agree with this, 

[02:38:01] Mike: that mm-hmm. Yes. 

[02:38:01] Toliy: That is required to do that. 

[02:38:02] Mike: 100%. 

[02:38:03] Toliy: Yeah. When I, when I feel that, obviously 

[02:38:05] Eldar: 100%, 

[02:38:06] Toliy: like 

[02:38:07] Eldar: Yeah.

[02:38:07] Toliy: Obviously I wanna do it. 

[02:38:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:38:09] Toliy: You know? Yeah. And I know that I need to, to let go of those things and those identities I have 

[02:38:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:38:14] Toliy: To be able to have the capacity to 

[02:38:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:38:17] Toliy: Um, to do it to Ascend. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, and like yeah. To, to, to me, just, it, it keeps going to the same place and then like, I feel like I, I don't know if it's like a conscious or an unconscious like thing where like, you look at me and you're like, all right, explain it.

[02:38:32] And then I'm just like, well, I can't. 

[02:38:34] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:38:35] Toliy: You know, like, 

[02:38:37] Eldar: yeah. 

[02:38:37] Toliy: Like that. And, and, and I feel like I keep going to that same place and that, like, that, that, that's to me is where the, the raising of the awareness of like, I cannot, like, like I can't have that conversation that I want to have 

[02:38:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:38:51] Toliy: With you about that topic.

[02:38:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:38:53] Toliy: Because you're telling me like, yo, I don't get what you're saying. Mm-hmm. You know, like, you're not able to like 

[02:38:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:38:57] Toliy: Articulate things. You're not able to show me like, what, what Yeah. What you're talking about. 

[02:39:01] Eldar: Yeah. You know? Yeah. Okay. 

[02:39:03] Toliy: So I, so I, so I definitely like, um, so 

[02:39:07] Eldar: I'm shooting in the right direction.

[02:39:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:39:10] Eldar: That's what it sounds 

[02:39:10] Toliy: like. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But, but I dunno if you were intentionally doing it in that kind of way to, to, to do that or not, you know? 

[02:39:17] Eldar: We have so many different conversations. Yeah. And, uh, there's so much that's tied to it, and I, for a fact mm-hmm. For a fact, tie one thing, um, to this is the fact that a lot of times your, um, fascination of the external world actually drains your own empowerment.

[02:39:36] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:39:36] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. And, uh, for a very long time, I think that you've been a cheerleader, um, you know, of the external, and you said that with LinkedIn and stuff like that. And you see certain things, and now you're finally inching in and like, okay, like, who am I? And like, what am I supposed to do?

[02:39:52] Yeah. And how am I supposed to actualize? I've been pushing for this for a very long time. Yeah. I've been raising awareness for a very long time that you have to tell everybody to fuck off and you have to create that world and that reality, and that's where you become that leader and become that shooter on the basketball court or that climber.

[02:40:06] But when you perform, nobody's looking. Yeah. You do it and like, you pressure, no pressure, you know who you are. Yeah. And you killing it, and your knowledge is applied and success comes from that. 

[02:40:15] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:40:16] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. Can't hold your hand here. I can't like do it for you. You know what I mean?

[02:40:20] Like 

[02:40:20] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:40:21] Eldar: You gotta become your own man, you know, and Yeah. That's been going on for a while. 

[02:40:25] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:40:25] Eldar: And what you're trying to tackle right now is a hundred percent tied to that. Yeah. 100%. 

[02:40:30] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:40:31] Eldar: You know what I mean? Um, I told you a lot of times you fell short on, uh, on, on delivering even these news.

[02:40:38] Where these news were very shorthanded. Like, it's like there, there's nothing there. There's no real substance where he just told us this. Yeah. Me and Mike trying to analyze it because we didn't see it or whatever, and there's no substance behind it. 

[02:40:49] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[02:40:49] Eldar: And I know that he's a thinker, but he, he's just regurgitating things that like, that's just, this identity doesn't work.

[02:40:55] Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[02:40:56] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:40:56] Eldar: A lot of the times and like, he didn't have a hot take. No. Some he brought somebody else hot, stupid take, you know what I mean? And then when we talk things through, he obviously agrees with me. 

[02:41:05] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:41:05] Eldar: And then he shuts down. He drops the other take. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[02:41:08] That just tells me that he didn't think things through, he just took them in, didn't analyze them. Mm-hmm. And, and gave it to us. 

[02:41:13] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:41:14] Eldar: And that's, that's not what I want. Like, I don't wanna be around that. That's stupid. 

[02:41:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:41:17] Eldar: You know, I know that you can do a lot better. 

[02:41:19] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:41:19] Eldar: I know you, if you're a shooter, you could shoot, shoot.

[02:41:21] Yeah. You know what I mean? Or think in this case, you know mm-hmm. Think for yourselves. 

[02:41:25] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:41:25] Eldar: You know what I mean? Uh, you come up with a lot more creative shit than that's out there. That's a fact. We could have a lot of better conversations than others. That's a fact. We know our shit. That's a fact. You know?

[02:41:36] Mm-hmm. But you gotta do it. 

[02:41:37] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:41:37] Eldar: You know, and all this other distraction shit. Yeah. It's, it is robbing you from attention span is making you into simp. 

[02:41:44] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like, um, 

[02:41:45] Eldar: you know, 

[02:41:46] Toliy: yeah. I just know that there, there is like a, um, there's, there there's a particular, um, attention that it's required to like, to uh, notice particular things as to what's going on.

[02:41:58] Yeah. And to actually 

[02:41:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:41:59] Toliy: Consciously focus on like 

[02:42:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:42:01] Toliy: A, a, um. The 

[02:42:04] Eldar: task. 

[02:42:04] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:42:05] Eldar: The task at hand. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I obviously you got, you got the blessing. You already know. 

[02:42:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:42:10] Eldar: You just, now it's just a matter of doing it. 

[02:42:12] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:42:13] Eldar: You know, and when you do do it, you'll see it like, like, yo, this shit was obvious.

[02:42:17] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:42:18] Eldar: You know what I mean? But it's yours. It's gonna be who you are, you know what I mean? Everything's tied to that. And same thing for you, Mike. Yeah. You know what I mean? When you're going out there and you're doing everything, like you said, mindfully owning the process and not fucking buzzing through it like a dumb ass.

[02:42:32] Mike: Mm-hmm. And 

[02:42:33] Eldar: not picking your words carefully too. 

[02:42:34] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:42:34] Eldar: Same shit here. 

[02:42:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:42:36] Eldar: You know? 

[02:42:37] Mike: Yeah. But, but like, um, 

[02:42:39] you 

[02:42:39] Eldar: know, 

[02:42:39] Mike: when I started this conversation with you, when I asked you, you know, to have a conversation about challenge Yeah. I mentioned exactly what to is talking about and I'm not sure, I can't speak for him, but I'm pretty sure it's got the same legs where I was explaining to you.

[02:42:52] I don't know if you remember, but 

[02:42:54] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[02:42:55] Mike: The reason that you are not like, uh, well, I can speak for myself. The reason I'm not succeeding in those things and the areas that I wanna succeed, let's just say rock climbing, uh, or I'm not acting in the rock climb or I'm not acting with the girls, is because, um,

[02:43:14] there's a failure to act the right way when there's a challenge to do so. Um, resorting to pain relief. Is the solution. So what happens is, like, um, we have millions of, I guess millions, maybe millions of choices. We have a lot of choices every day, right? 

[02:43:43] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:43:43] Mike: And when you make a, like a sin, let's just call it a sin, a violation against yourself, which you know is right, and use a coping mechanism instead of being strong and being empowered, uh, and then you take the, like, the weak route, like, oh, I'm just gonna go cope.

[02:43:56] I'm gonna go drink, I'm gonna go eat, I'm gonna go smoke, I'm gonna go consume information. Every time you do that, let's say it happens in the morning, right? 

[02:44:04] Toliy: Yeah. 

[02:44:04] Mike: When you make the choice, like, you know what, today I'm gonna eat unhealthy, I'm gonna eat fucking bagels, whatever, right? Those choices, the ripples, they go much further because then later, as the day progresses, it's much harder to make the right choice.

[02:44:16] And the more and more like this behavior continues, the harder it is to make the right choice. And then you get stuck in this like, runt of like, you're just like in this pit of like, uh, making bad choice for yourself, but you're constantly fighting because you have like a person who's thinking, right?

[02:44:33] When you resolve the pain, you have an opportunity to think, right? And once the pain and relief is active, you can start thinking and your conscious mind, your logical mind is like, Hey, why am I doing to myself? Why am I doing this to myself? Why am I like, you know, coping with these problems instead of facing them instead of.

[02:44:50] Facing the challenge and breaking through instead of just saying like, you know what, like, I'm upset with myself. I did something wrong, or, you know, or I fucked up and not look for the cope, but look to face the problem. And like, that's why to me, it was like tied to challenge. A lot of times I failed the challenges to do the right thing for myself, and I resort to using the coping mechanisms and that is just gonna keep delaying and delaying and actually to achieve what you want to achieve.

[02:45:18] So like, yeah, like, um, me and I we're talking like, why are you not acting with the girls? It's something that I really want, but when I'm faced with a challenge to do the right thing for myself, right? Like in order to be able to feel good about myself, to be confident in my, about myself, it's not just like a, like a automatic thing.

[02:45:38] You have to actually do certain things that will contribute to being confident, to feeling good about yourself. Right? Um, and if you fail those challenges, you're just gonna end up failing at the other challenges that are down the road for the day, for the week, for, for months. You know, that's, that's kind of like, um, my rant.

[02:45:59] That's how I feel about myself, you know, like that's what I've observed and that's why I was just telling you. Yeah, 

[02:46:03] Eldar: yeah, yeah. A 

[02:46:04] Mike: couple, couple days ago and I still like realized that I used certain things to cope, you know, even like the negative self-talk, right? Instead of like trying to fight it, I'll go and have some food because it calms down.

[02:46:16] Like the stress, the anxiety. Anxiety. 

[02:46:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:46:18] Mike: Right. And, uh, a lot. Sometimes you have that in the beginning of the day and then like you kind of always in the back. I feel like when you do that, whether you're conscious about it or not, you are gonna be on the back foot already starting the day when you don't make the right choice for yourself.

[02:46:38] Right? Like, and you know, you change your diet obviously, you know, you eating differently and you're making better choices for yourself, right? And I think you, uh, also understanding that like, you know, the, having that morning routine where you don't rush, eating the proper foods, those are all challenges to say, Hey, are you gonna be like, are you gonna be a pussy and you're gonna resort to those things that you did not like being rushed, always being late, being stressed, being anxious, coming in here, sweaty, right?

[02:47:04] Eating fucking a bagel in a half or two, whatever. Or eating a bagel, right? You know, like what I mean? Or you're gonna actually challenge that guy who's trying to bring you down, who says you can't climb that, or you're gonna say, fuck you, I can't climb that. You know? And every single day until we finally like, take control over that aspect in our lives over that challenge and that cha that that talk doesn't have a factor anymore.

[02:47:29] It doesn't have a voice. It, until you get to that point, it's gonna like be a problem. But once you take a stance and you stick with it and you're done with it, being that person in that specific area, it's like gonna, I mean, for me it feels like it's gonna delay you because those things compound like those, um.

[02:47:49] By choices for our character. 

[02:47:52] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like, um, 

[02:47:55] Eldar: but before you say that, so I can't recommend pizza after this. Just wanna double check. 

[02:48:00] Mike: Holy shit. 

[02:48:01] Toliy: Yeah. I feel like, uh, for me at least, um, the, the good thing for, for me is a lot of the, the suffering I have is like, I mean, a a a lot of it at least feels conscious and like I'm, I'm, uh, aware of it.

[02:48:18] Um, whereas before I wa wasn't as much. 

[02:48:24] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:48:25] Toliy: So it definitely is more painful now. Um, but it's good because it's like, like I can't, like, I can't unseat, I can't like, uh, can't 

[02:48:33] Eldar: lie yourself. 

[02:48:33] Toliy: Yeah. I can't lie to myself. Which, which again, it's an in the moment, very painful scenario, but it's o overall I'm very happy with, with that stance, you know?

[02:48:45] Yeah. Um, but I also know that like, um, I do know that when I focus on things and when I, like, I mean just, just like anyone, if anyone sets their mind to, to something, they can, they, they can do whatever they want. But, um, for, for, for me, it's like, yeah, like my, um, my focus right now is to basically regain my focus and to be able to use it.

[02:49:10] Um, like, like I feel like when we're in. Um, like this philosophy, like a conversation 

[02:49:16] Eldar: bubble, 

[02:49:17] Toliy: right? Right. Mm-hmm. Like, I feel during the conversation, like I feel like I'm listening to everything, and I feel like I'm extremely focused. Mm-hmm. I feel like I'm extremely tuned in. 

[02:49:27] Eldar: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[02:49:27] Toliy: And I'm choosing to do the, do that, and I feel like I'm, I'm like, I'm listening to every word that everyone is saying.

[02:49:33] Eldar: Yes. 

[02:49:34] Toliy: And I'm processing in real time and able to like, you know, to provide feedback or to like mm-hmm. Ask questions or to challenge or to do all that. And I can, and I can do that. Like I have the fascination and I can just like, like I can to toy with that kind of like, uh, like, um, stance, you know, like I'm consciously doing that.

[02:49:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:49:56] Toliy: You know? 

[02:49:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:49:57] Toliy: And I have like, yeah. Like, I can't, like my, my, my focus is so strong and I'm listening to everything that everyone is like saying. 

[02:50:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:50:06] Toliy: And like, yeah. I'm like, I feel super tuned into it. Mm-hmm. You know? 

[02:50:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:50:10] Toliy: Um, and that's what I want. 

[02:50:13] Eldar: Good. 

[02:50:14] Toliy: You know? 

[02:50:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:50:15] Toliy: That, that's, that's, but I, I, again, that's what I know is required to do what I want to do, 

[02:50:20] Eldar: correct.

[02:50:21] Toliy: Mm-hmm. So like, it's either you, you, you change your stance as to what you want to do 

[02:50:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:50:26] Toliy: And how you want to do doing things. 

[02:50:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:50:29] Toliy: Um, or you, you, you, you fight for your focus back to be able to, um, to then deploy it in the way that you want at any point you want. Yeah. At any time you want. 

[02:50:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:50:41] Toliy: You know?

[02:50:41] Um. I definitely feel like I have that here. When, when, when we have talk conversations, I feel very strongly and like, and analytical and like 

[02:50:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:50:52] Toliy: On point. 

[02:50:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:50:53] Toliy: You know, but I also know that like, yeah, I definitely have a lot of 

[02:50:56] Eldar: distractions. 

[02:50:57] Toliy: Distractions and habits that, um, that like Yeah. The overconsumption them create those, probably those cope 

[02:51:05] Mike: Yeah.

[02:51:05] Toliy: Scenarios of like tiredness or like this or that. Mm-hmm. Like, yeah, like you, you, you need to put yourself in a position where you could think, where you could use your mind 

[02:51:13] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[02:51:14] Toliy: And where you could control your outcomes and control what, what you do, you know? Um, and I know what that, what that's like in like spurts, you know?

[02:51:23] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:51:23] Toliy: Um, but I also know by like, thinking about these things and like, um, um, removing these attachments to these things because it, like, to me, it's not even like, like when I started to like, think about the, the, the, this topic, I'm like, it, like, it like it's, it's that feeling like I can't believe that.

[02:51:41] Like, like, like this is what's actually happening here, you know? 

[02:51:45] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:51:45] Toliy: Like, you're almost like dumbfounded. 

[02:51:46] Eldar: You always have that 

[02:51:47] Toliy: Yeah. Know what these almost like Yeah. Like, like is this really what, what's going on here? 

[02:51:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:51:52] Toliy: Like, you know, and like yeah. Like there's obviously like a moment of like, yeah, I'm upset.

[02:51:58] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[02:51:58] Toliy: You know, but then I also know that like, yeah, there's a good opportunity here to like, 

[02:52:03] Eldar: as son 

[02:52:03] Toliy: Yeah. To battle this stuff, you know? And, uh, 

[02:52:06] Eldar: yeah. 

[02:52:07] Toliy: And life max. 

[02:52:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:52:09] Toliy: You know, 

[02:52:09] Eldar: uh, Mike. Mm-hmm. I think that, yeah. Definitely, I mean, it's good obviously to just totally said, pay attention and then really hone in on these challenges.

[02:52:19] Mm-hmm. Obviously don't kill yourself over it. 

[02:52:20] Mike: No. And I said 

[02:52:21] Eldar: that 

[02:52:21] Mike: you, I'm not 

[02:52:22] Eldar: trying to, yeah. Don't obsess over it. No. You know what I mean? I think that you should definitely pick the lowest hanging fruit 

[02:52:28] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[02:52:28] Eldar: That causes most amount of pain. 

[02:52:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:52:30] Eldar: And really pay attention. 

[02:52:33] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:52:33] Eldar: Like you said. 

[02:52:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:52:34] Eldar: Be present.

[02:52:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:52:36] Eldar: You know what I mean? And really weed out the weeds. 

[02:52:38] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:52:38] Eldar: So you could get the outcomes that you want. 

[02:52:40] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:52:40] Eldar: Like start with those, you know what I mean? Yeah, of course. And as you condition, slowly, slowly get custom with this type of approach, I think then it's gonna naturally flow into smaller things and smaller things and smaller things.

[02:52:50] Yeah. Where you can really enjoy yourself. 

[02:52:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:52:53] Eldar: You know what I mean? Sure. Where then you're not working on the back foot. 

[02:52:56] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:52:56] Eldar: Uh, starting in the morning. 

[02:52:57] Mike: Yeah. Fucking 

[02:52:58] Eldar: off 

[02:52:58] Mike: percent. 

[02:52:59] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[02:52:59] Mike: Hundred percent. 

[02:53:00] Eldar: Um, 

[02:53:01] Mike: yeah. 

[02:53:02] Eldar: Because self violation is like 

[02:53:04] Mike: mm-hmm. Yeah. The thing is a bad habit's opportunity to violate yourself all the time.

[02:53:08] Eldar: I know. Yeah. 

[02:53:10] Mike: And making a bad choice make is making a bad comment, not speaking up like 

[02:53:14] Eldar: Correct. 

[02:53:14] Mike: Every single day. We interact with people. That's right. Everywhere we go, that's, we constantly have an opportunity to like engage with somebody or something. 

[02:53:20] Eldar: Yes. Yeah. 

[02:53:21] Mike: And the way we engage with it, it's gonna dictate our day.

[02:53:23] A hundred percent. You had a rough morning with your dog, you gotta upset. 

[02:53:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:53:26] Mike: How do you know the ripple's not gonna ruin the rest of your day? Yeah, yeah. Or you're gonna be like an asshole to somebody else. Yeah. You know, like the thing is the ripples, we can't see. Those are like subconsciously baked in.

[02:53:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:53:37] Mike: To our things, to our lives. And Yeah. For sure. Like, I'm not trying to obsess, but I also want to be You are on the right track. Yeah. 

[02:53:44] Eldar: I think that, you know, you're shooting in the right direction. 

[02:53:46] Mike: Yeah, I think so too. 

[02:53:47] Eldar: And I think you understand the variables that are at play and the variables that need, that need your attention.

[02:53:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:53:51] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[02:53:52] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:53:53] Eldar: So as long as you keep on this, on this path, 

[02:53:57] Mike: yeah. 

[02:53:57] Eldar: You'll be golden. 

[02:53:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:53:59] Eldar: You know? 

[02:54:00] Mike: Yeah. I think so too. So 

[02:54:00] Eldar: keep at it, you know? 

[02:54:01] Mike: Yeah, yeah. No, I definitely, I think as the discovery of it, understanding of how the system is working now you have a choice to 

[02:54:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:54:08] Mike: Figure out which, 

[02:54:08] Eldar: you know, what, which way you wanna 

[02:54:09] Mike: do 

[02:54:09] Eldar: what, you know what, Mike, I think that, you know, what's a good exercise?

[02:54:11] You know how sometimes you give, you give homework, 

[02:54:13] Mike: Uhhuh. 

[02:54:14] Eldar: I think a good, good exercise is to go back to the early episodes three, four years ago. 

[02:54:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:54:19] Eldar: And re-listen to who you are. 

[02:54:20] Mike: Mm. Yeah. 

[02:54:21] Eldar: Yeah. Okay. 

[02:54:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:54:22] Eldar: And then you're gonna be like, oh 

[02:54:24] Mike: yeah, 

[02:54:26] Eldar: who is that? 

[02:54:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:54:27] Eldar: And then you're gonna have a contrast. 

[02:54:28] Mike: Yeah.

[02:54:29] Well, I think 

[02:54:30] Eldar: because I go through this stuff, because I edit stuff, certain things, I tweak certain things. 

[02:54:33] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:54:34] Eldar: You know what I mean? I'm putting everything on YouTube now. 

[02:54:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:54:36] Eldar: To, uh, and then they copyrighted a bunch of songs that Dennis put in there. 

[02:54:39] Mike: Oh. Sick. 

[02:54:39] Eldar: So I had to, I had to redo like half the episodes, like a bunch of them.

[02:54:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:54:43] Eldar: And I'm listening to some of the stuff that you're saying. Mm-hmm. And you could see that the attitude is completely different. 

[02:54:47] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:54:47] Eldar: You know, on how you were taking on stuff. Yeah. Versus how you're taking them on now. 

[02:54:51] Mike: Oh yeah. 

[02:54:52] Eldar: You can see that contrast. You know what I mean? 

[02:54:55] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[02:54:57] Eldar: It'll be very interesting, you know?

[02:54:58] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I definitely have to, and 

[02:55:01] Eldar: you might have some, you might find some clues. You know what I mean? Also, way you went wrong. Where, where you, you shouldn't have done that, that, you know, and 

[02:55:08] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[02:55:09] Eldar: You could see, maybe you can do some preventative care as well by analyzing certain things. Mm. Because I find that interesting.

[02:55:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:55:15] Eldar: You know, especially because your transformation is so apparent. 

[02:55:19] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[02:55:19] Eldar: You know? Alright guys, thank you. This was great. 

[02:55:22] Mike: Thank you. 

[02:55:22] Eldar: Maybe it's beats of time.