206. Divorce

What if the love of your life served you divorce papers one month after you bought your dream house together?

In this raw, no-holds-barred episode we tackle the brutal realities of breakups, heartbreak, divorce, and the hidden dynamics that quietly destroy even the strongest relationships. Guest Billy—a 34-year-old immigrant who thought he’d finally achieved the American Dream—shares how his 4.5-year relationship (court-house marriage, elaborate engagement, new house, new car, and move to New Jersey) imploded overnight when past fights resurfaced and his younger wife chose freedom over their shared future.

Hosts Eldar, Toliy, and Mike dig deep into the teacher-student dynamic, codependency, unaddressed resentment, and Billy’s lifelong pattern of chasing external milestones for validation. You’ll hear vulnerable stories of self-love struggles, the immigrant survival mindset, and the painful realization that “happily ever after” can vanish in an instant.

Key takeaways you’ll walk away with:

• Small, unconscious resentments in relationships build silently and can explode years later.
• Chasing material “check-boxes” (house, car, status) rarely delivers the happiness or self-love we crave.
• The teacher-student dynamic in love often breeds resentment—even when it starts with good intentions.
• It’s never too late to redirect your life after heartbreak and divorce.

Most insightful moment: Toliy nails it when he says, “A lot of people in life say, ‘Hey, if I get this car, or if I get this job, or if I get this house… they’re thinking they’re gonna get something. And they never do.’”

But here’s the cliffhanger… As Billy stands at the edge of acceptance, staring down his controlling nature, immigrant survival mode, and the emptiness of all those hard-won milestones—will this sudden divorce finally force him to choose self-love… or will he stay trapped chasing the very future that just walked out the door?

If you’re navigating breakups, heartache, divorce recovery, or questioning what real self-love looks like after a relationship ends, this episode will hit you right in the chest.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Eldar: On this week's episode, the whole projection, the, the trajectory of your relationship, right? It finally came to an end for this specific reason, for you to finally come to realization that like, was I getting this whole thing right? Were we actually happy? 

[00:00:13] Toliy: A lot of people in life say, Hey, if I get this car, or if I get this job, or if I get this house, or if I make this amount of money, or if I get these shoes, they're thinking they're gonna get something.

[00:00:23] And they never do. 

[00:00:25] Mike: I went through it, you know, with like a bad relationship, heartbreak, low self-esteem, lack of self-love, and I discovered it's never too late. There's no time to like change your life or to go in a different direction.

[00:00:43] Eldar: All right, guys, on tonight's topic, we're gonna talk about breakups, love, heartaches, divorce, and everything that, uh, revolves around relationships. You know, the good, the bad, the ugly, the cute, you know, and see if we can navigate ourselves out of certain tough situations. And today we have a guest by the name of Billy who we met actually, uh, rock climbing.

[00:01:05] Yep. You know, um, he's actually going through something right now, uh, which, you know, most of the world, I would say, uh, is pretty serious. 

[00:01:11] Billy: Yep. 

[00:01:11] Eldar: You know, uh, and it's pretty serious for him, obviously, and he's definitely going through it. Uh, he's gonna share some, you know, the situation, tell us what, what he's actually going through and how he's feeling.

[00:01:21] And maybe we can a little bit digest it. Yeah. And see we can provide some insight, you know, um. Maybe go through it together where we can share a little bit of your pain and maybe help you out in any way possible with our insight. 

[00:01:32] Billy: Yeah. Thank you guys. Yeah, I'm happy to be here firstly. 

[00:01:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:01:35] Billy: And yeah, so in a nutshell, basically, um, I've had like a really, really tough eight months, I would say.

[00:01:43] Eldar: Mm-hmm. That's 

[00:01:44] Billy: the entirety of my separation so far. And now I'm nearing the end of like, the runway, you know, of the separation. 'cause I was recently served, like divorce papers from my, um, other half. And it kind of happened in an unexpected way, but it was kind of inevitable, like where it was going. But, um, I did not expect it to be, uh, so sudden, right?

[00:02:06] Mm-hmm. Because I was in communication with her and all that, and we were supposed to meet up. I thought if I met her, um, for dinner or something, I'll have a chance to at least make it right. Yeah. 

[00:02:17] Toliy: Okay. 

[00:02:17] Billy: Try one last time or like, explain things if I have to. Apologize. Apologize. Like, okay. Just see where we are at.

[00:02:24] But, um, what happened was unexpectedly, I just got so the papers, like somebody came, um, knocking on my door. 

[00:02:29] Eldar: That sounds tough. 

[00:02:30] Billy: Yeah. 

[00:02:31] Eldar: Take us back. How long you've been in this relationship. Give us a little rundown. How did you Yeah, man. How, how did you fall in love? 

[00:02:37] Billy: This was the greatest love of my life, right?

[00:02:38] Oh, right. So far, so far I, I'm in a little bit background about myself. I'm 34 years old. 

[00:02:44] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:45] Billy: And of course, I've fallen in love before and mm-hmm. Have broken up and all that. But, you know, this love lasted four and a half years. 

[00:02:51] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:02:52] Billy: So, just by the amount of time spent in this relationship, it's the most serious one that I've had.

[00:02:57] Eldar: And you got married, so, 

[00:02:58] Billy: yeah, I got married, but again, like, we hadn't had the wedding yet. 

[00:03:02] Eldar: Oh, okay. 

[00:03:02] Billy: Yeah. So it was more like a practical marriage. Okay. Like in court, like in, in the Bronx. Got it. We got married, like, uh, in the courthouse in the Bronx. But this saying was like, we're gonna get married eventually anyways.

[00:03:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:03:14] Billy: Right. So why not just save some money in taxes? And so it was logistical, the, the marriage, but. You know, she left me when we were looking at like wedding venues and all that. So it, it was seriously 

[00:03:24] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:03:25] Billy: Yeah. We were like practically married and we had had a pretty, um, elaborate engagement ceremony, um, the year prior, so, you know.

[00:03:33] Eldar: Oh, so like yeah. Everything was kind of moving towards the Yeah. So it was like happily ever after 

[00:03:38] Billy: Yeah. For 

[00:03:39] Eldar: the rest of your lives. Definitely. And abruptly, it just changed 

[00:03:42] Billy: for sure. And, and the, and the biggest, um, hiccup over here and, um, why I am like grieving so much is how close I came to like happily ever after, right?

[00:03:51] Yeah. The American dream as an immigrant and all that. Uh, I actually moved from Brooklyn here to New Jersey, and that's how I even met you guys, like 

[00:03:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:03:59] Billy: To take this relationship to marriage, you know? 

[00:04:02] Eldar: Oh, okay. 

[00:04:02] Billy: So we bought a house. She 

[00:04:03] Eldar: was from here? 

[00:04:04] Billy: No, no, she wasn't from here. Okay. We were living together in Brooklyn for the last four and a half years.

[00:04:08] Okay. But, uh, we just recently bought a house 

[00:04:10] Eldar: together, 

[00:04:10] Billy: bought a car Yeah. And moved all the way here from Brooklyn and thought of starting a life in New Jersey, you know, where schools are good. 

[00:04:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:04:18] Billy: So really future oriented and, uh, it just came crashing down, um, a month after buying the house, basically.

[00:04:24] Eldar: Wow. 

[00:04:25] Billy: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:04:26] Eldar: That's tough. That's definitely tough. It seems like you were at that finish line. 

[00:04:29] Billy: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:04:30] Eldar: So, so, and then, and, and then you just get hit out of nowhere. How can that be like, did you miss something? What happened? And, and like, how can you know somebody be so like, so close, but yet, so far it sounds like 

[00:04:41] Billy: this was the most confident thing I had, uh, going on in my whole life.

[00:04:45] Right. I have a really good job, EV Everything's working out for me, but. My love was something that I had most faith on. Like, you know, she was my partner and like, I had a guarantee from her that, 

[00:04:57] Eldar: that's crazy. 

[00:04:57] Billy: She's happily in love with me, et cetera. Now we did have like a history of fights and all that early on in our relationship, like year one, year two, but 

[00:05:06] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[00:05:06] Billy: In ever since our engagement in year four. Uh, I remember like after getting engaged with her, I said, Hey, Sierra, like, we gotta make sure that, you know, we are fine. Like we've, um, we are now in a, a good state and like, you know, like judging our past, um, maybe fights in the first year. So she said, Hey Billy, um, you know, since we survived all that and, um, you know, we've gotten stronger as a result, you know, I know that you're the guy for me and all that, you know, so I had like really, really strong, uh, assurance or assurances from her.

[00:05:39] That's why I even was able to like, you know, use that to like the strength, uh, to, to buy a house. And of 

[00:05:46] Eldar: course, these are, these are big moves. 

[00:05:48] Billy: Yeah. 

[00:05:49] Eldar: You don't just buy a house, a car, 

[00:05:50] Billy: you know, a 

[00:05:51] Eldar: move 

[00:05:51] Billy: and yeah. It's, it's arguably one of the hardest things to do as an adult, right. Of course. Buying a house, getting a divorce and all these things.

[00:05:56] Of course, yeah. So, um, yeah, it ended so abruptly for, um, for a relationship as strong as ours in, in my opinion. Yeah. 

[00:06:05] Eldar: What happened, Billy? You have to, you, you keep, you keep holding it 

[00:06:08] Billy: back. Nothing happen to like milestones, right? Personal milestones. I, okay. I did not, um, pay much attention to this. 'cause um, what happened was she graduated.

[00:06:17] Okay. And, um, she was starting a job basically. Um, she got a job at NYU Langone in the nicu. She's an RN now. 

[00:06:25] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:26] Billy: And I think, you know, the stresses, like, we had some small fights regarding like, furnishing and all that. Like I think most people get into those, um, 

[00:06:34] Toliy: yeah. 

[00:06:34] Billy: Course arguments, right? Husband and wife, all a hundred percent that.

[00:06:37] But, um, now that things were different and, you know, she saw something else for herself, probably like, and I don't wanna be with somebody who doesn't wanna be with me. Right. Of course. It's just that how quickly, um, it can all turn around. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, nothing happened per se. It's just, yeah. She got reminded of like, maybe some of our, um, fights from early on in the relationship, which, which we've already moved on.

[00:07:03] So 

[00:07:03] Eldar: she started referencing all those 

[00:07:04] Billy: things back to you. Yeah. All that. Right. How they say, like, I, I don't want to sound like misogynistic at all, but like Yeah. You know, you see memes and, uh, reels out there. Yeah. Like how a girl remembers everything, right? 

[00:07:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:15] Billy: They bring up like, 

[00:07:16] Eldar: okay. 

[00:07:16] Billy: Uh, things from way in the past.

[00:07:18] So yeah, it kinda was like that. And, um, I think, you know, she just wanted to experience, she's younger than me. Mm-hmm. Like by seven years 

[00:07:25] Toliy: Uhhuh. 

[00:07:25] Billy: So, you know, good for her man. She wants to, like, she's found new money, she's found a new career. She wants to be in Manhattan and all that. I just wish. I had known all that and, um, I don't think she was like, blindsiding me at all.

[00:07:38] Like, it's just she realized that, oh my God, like, you know, I could do this on my own right now and I don't need to take this guy's stress or whatever. Like that comes with like, you know, buying a house and all that. Mm-hmm. She just made a decision Yeah. That that's what happened. But nothing as ugly as a 

[00:07:55] Eldar: cheating on 

[00:07:56] Billy: some Yeah.

[00:07:56] Cheating and all that. Yeah. Betrayal as drastic. 

[00:07:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:07:59] Billy: You know, it, 

[00:08:00] Eldar: mother-in-law situation 

[00:08:01] Billy: where Yeah. She is 

[00:08:02] Eldar: religion. 

[00:08:03] Billy: Yeah. She and my mom were like so close. Mm-hmm. She would say sometimes, well, I'm closer to your mom than my own mom, and all that. So culturally and everything, it was a, a good fit. It's just what happened.

[00:08:15] Yeah. 

[00:08:17] Eldar: Yeah. That's very interesting because, you know, for a guy who's who, who's, you know, who's under the impression that everything is okay. Right. And you're building, you're building, you're building. And then for, for something this big to be abruptly, completely be cut off, uh, because of small little fights or things that came up previously Right.

[00:08:37] That maybe weren't addressed properly, I guess. Right. Uh, you can just break everything completely. And that's what she's sticking with. That's her argument. That's what's kind of the breakup. 

[00:08:46] Billy: Yeah. Yeah. So basically her narrative and I like, doesn't matter if it's logically or factually correct. And I, since my girl is feeling so strongly about these things, I try to honor that.

[00:08:57] Right. Every time I've met her over this last eight months, I've honored her narrative and been like, I don't care, like how trivial these things are, as long as it's affected affecting you this much, you know, I want to validate this, you know, I apologize and everything I've done like to cater to that, but she's just like, I'm so traumatized by our past fights and all that.

[00:09:16] Like, so she's holding onto that like, um, yeah. As, as, uh, things like traumas, resurfacing and, um, her leaving as a result of that basically. Yeah. 

[00:09:29] Eldar: Are you, have you grown suspicious that it's something else? Can it be something else? Or are you just kind like taking it for face value of what she's saying? 

[00:09:37] Billy: I think there's something else is just greener pastures man.

[00:09:40] Like really? Um, 

[00:09:41] Mike: yeah. I think he said it. He said when she, like, she's younger. 

[00:09:44] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:09:45] Mike: Right. So she kind of like, she started making money. 

[00:09:47] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:09:47] Mike: She's kind of maybe like, you know, enjoying the, having some money, wanting to go out more and he's kind of more like on the move to jersey flow. Mm-hmm. Even though she might have thought about it.

[00:09:56] But then I guess maybe. Her financial picture changed and she wanted to be like, more in the same lives. Yeah. But that, that's, that's no excuse to, uh, trade that awful of, bro. 

[00:10:05] Billy: No, it's not an excuse, but 

[00:10:07] Mike: yeah. 

[00:10:07] Billy: That's what she's, uh, using. Right. Like some of our like toxic fights or something from the past. Um, she's kind of using that and also like, I don't think she's lying.

[00:10:17] She's actually feeling that, but like that's how she's like justifying the guilt of leaving me, um, with these big responsibilities. 

[00:10:25] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:25] Billy: Right. So I think everything is true. I don't think she's a bad person at all. Um, you know, um, Mike, you talked about her, um, like, you know, wanting to be in the city and like chill and party and all that, but she's like a homebody man.

[00:10:39] Like she's very, um, yeah. 

[00:10:40] Mike: Okay. 

[00:10:40] Billy: She's very, um, introverted and all that. So just plays video games at home. 

[00:10:45] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:45] Billy: Sometimes goes out with friends, but, um, yeah, it's just the freedom, you know, like, uh, I'm a pretty intense guy. Um. You know, as, as you can be, like if you're so driven and all that. Mm-hmm. So maybe she just didn't wanna take my shit anymore, you know, and Yeah.

[00:11:01] Eldar: Well that's, that's what it is, right? Like, at the end of the day, right. I was not in your relationship. 

[00:11:05] Billy: Yeah, 

[00:11:06] Eldar: you were. And she was on the receiving end of that. Right? Yeah. And a lot of times what we talk about, at least here in the podcast, is that our perceptions of what's going on can be skewed sometimes.

[00:11:16] Well, we're not, we might not be aware of what's actually going on. We not, might not be aware of the, the way we come across, we're not mindful of that. Mm-hmm. Right. But it's landing somewhere, right? On our friends, on our family members, on our loved ones in such a way where they keeping track or they keep in a record of hurt, pain, you know, whatever it is that's, you know, resentment and stuff that's constantly are slowly building up, you know?

[00:11:40] So, I mean, obviously I don't wanna just throw, you know, the guilt on you on here and, and say that you are the, the one to blame. Um, but I, I'd like at least I'd like to hear an argument, right? Like, gimme a model of an argument that you guys did have where you came out out of it, where like you were the bad guy in her eyes.

[00:11:58] Can you, can you gimme one example? 

[00:12:00] Billy: What do you mean? 

[00:12:01] Eldar: Uh, gimme an example of an argument or fight, fight, fight that you guys had where it's like, it was clearly you guys were on different sides of the 

[00:12:07] Billy: spectrum. Oh, no, man. It's like sometimes we just fight about fighting. Like these are like domestic fights of, you know, couples kind of, you know, like husband and wife, like cats and dogs kind of, well give, gimme 

[00:12:17] Eldar: an example.

[00:12:17] Billy: So for instance, like in this new house, like any stress that's related to us being new homeowners. Mm-hmm. Right? Like we're cooking once and the smoke alarm just went off and mm-hmm. I don't know, I thought like the fire, like, uh, firemen would show up at my house or something, so I'm like, oh my God.

[00:12:33] Screaming a little bit and I'm like, Hey Sierra, did you open the windows like this? That like, just arguing about, I think valid reasons. Like I have to put on a protective, um, hat on first, right? 

[00:12:44] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:45] Billy: Just to make sure like there's no fire going on and all that. And maybe that was a little bit intense for her.

[00:12:50] But yeah, immediately after that I would apologize and like take control of the situation, you know? So that's like one of the fights. 

[00:12:58] Mike: Apologize for what though? 

[00:12:59] Billy: For, um, 

[00:13:00] Eldar: you say you're protecting her though. 

[00:13:02] Billy: Yeah, I know, but like maybe the manner in which I, um, 

[00:13:06] Eldar: when, what? 

[00:13:06] Billy: What'd you do? I wasn't able to control my temperance.

[00:13:08] Right. 

[00:13:09] Eldar: So what'd you say? You yelled at her like, yo, get outta the kitchen kind of 

[00:13:11] Billy: thing. I like, Hey, what are you doing? Hey, I told you to open the window before cooking, right? Like, you know, oh, she 

[00:13:16] Eldar: was cooking, she was cooking 

[00:13:17] Billy: fire alarm. She was cooking. The fire alarm went off. Like I just woke up. 

[00:13:20] Eldar: She wasn't cooking, she was burning shit.

[00:13:22] Yeah, 

[00:13:22] Billy: it was like the bacon was like pretty, it was burning and it was smokey and all that. Right. And that. Like, uh, since she's younger, right? Like our dynamic was a little bit of a, me being good dad, bit of a teacher kind of situation. I wouldn't say dad, man. I didn't know that. Firstly, 

[00:13:42] Eldar: it was a dad. It was a dad.

[00:13:43] Billy: Our relationship didn't start like that. Right? Yeah. I thought she was like, 

[00:13:47] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:13:48] Billy: You know, but she was a little bit behind her age for many reasons. Like, you know, she wasn't going to school and all that. And 

[00:13:53] Eldar: Uhhuh, 

[00:13:53] Billy: we kind of enrolled her in into school, like as a basis of us getting serious together. 

[00:13:57] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:13:58] Billy: So that really set the dynamic, right? I'm having to show her things more. 

[00:14:02] Eldar: The ropes. Yeah. Yeah. The ropes. Yeah. So she didn't respect the masculine principles is what it 

[00:14:06] Billy: sounds like. She she did. She did. But it's just like, her response to like stress and my response to stress was like very similar. I, I wish one of us was like the cool headed person.

[00:14:16] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:14:16] Billy: Able to walk away. Kind of, we are both like hotheads when, when it comes to like conflict resolution, you know? 

[00:14:21] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:14:22] Billy: Yeah. But nothing personal, nothing like resentment building up, et cetera, you know? So, um, that's why it was like really shocking to me. 'cause four and a half years, I know, you know, so the nature of our fights can be very fiery.

[00:14:37] Mm-hmm. But um, I never expected it to like one day end our relationship, right? Mm-hmm. So that's what happened there. Basically she rewrote the history a little bit, um, differently for valid reasons and, um, 

[00:14:49] Eldar: for her obviously for her side, 

[00:14:51] Billy: yeah. From her side. And I think, yeah, it's a way of dealing with the guilt of leaving me with all these responsibilities.

[00:14:58] The recent phone call I had with her is, you know, I just forgive. Like, you don't need to carry any more guilt. Like, I'll handle all of this. Like, I don't want you to worry at all. 

[00:15:09] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Like, 

[00:15:09] Billy: you might, like, maybe you don't know, but unconsciously you might be carrying all this guilt, which is why you might be hating me a little bit more, but I, I give you the, uh, ticket.

[00:15:19] Like that's the golden pass you get for being in love with me for four years. Right. So that is, um, kinda what I wanted to convey to my love as a passing message. Like, just hold onto our memories with, um, how I do. Right. It's, it's so romantic. Our relationship is beautiful, man. So, um, I just wanted to say that to my girl one last time.

[00:15:38] Yeah. 

[00:15:39] Eldar: And you did. 

[00:15:40] Billy: Yeah, I did. And that's great. I was like, please don't feel any guilt and turn that guilt into anger and 

[00:15:45] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:15:45] Billy: Justification of me being a bigger monster than I was, you know? 

[00:15:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:15:50] Billy: Yeah. So that's what I wanted to tell her and just chill out and smile and all that. 

[00:15:54] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Thank you, Billy, for sharing that.

[00:15:56] Billy: Thank you, man. 

[00:15:57] Eldar: What do you think? So what, what did Billy get himself into? What happened? We trying 

[00:16:02] Toliy: figure it out, you know? Yeah. Because like to me it's like, um, I, I, I'm like, I, I don't think that, um, things can go from like great to bad overnight, obviously, you know, and of oftentimes, as Elder said, that like when you're in a particular situation and you have a horse in a race, like you have outcomes that you want, she has outcomes that she wants.

[00:16:27] I think it's difficult to actually see what's actually going on, right? Versus if you have an outsider looking in where they have no horse in the race, they have no desired outcomes, they don't care one way or like another. They're just trying to figure out what's going on here. I think the perspective there is completely different.

[00:16:46] Um, I also think that there's, there's a lot of small things that are just like, um, unconscious behaviors that happen and these unconscious ways of like almost processing information. I do think that they build anger or resentment over time, but they're just not maybe like, um, 

[00:17:07] Eldar: vocalized at the moment.

[00:17:08] Toliy: Yeah. Vocalized or shown right away. 

[00:17:10] Eldar: They're stored. 

[00:17:10] Toliy: But I do think that like, we're like, hu hu humans are very, um, um, like they, they, they, they constantly process information. Whether you're thinking about information right now, like you may be paying attention to what I'm saying, but your computing level is crazy high, right?

[00:17:29] So, um, you're taking in a bunch of information and al already filing it away in different cabinets. And I think especially in the relationship where if you're intimate with someone and you guys live together and you spend time together, like there's constant every ev every single day of these kinds of like informational dumps almost, you know?

[00:17:50] So for me, um, yeah, I'm definitely a believer that there's probably like a. Maybe a lot more to the story that you haven't, like, um, unpacked yourself yet. But I think that if you track down, um, a bunch of the interactions over the years, you kind of think who you are, who she is. And there's probably, um, many signs that lead to like this type of behavior because pe pe people don't usually trade in.

[00:18:18] Like, um, they're not gonna trade a quarter for like a penny, right. They're not gonna trade more if they have better for like worse, for example. You know? 

[00:18:28] Eldar: Yeah. In 

[00:18:28] Toliy: this case 

[00:18:29] Eldar: it's a house. 

[00:18:29] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:18:30] Eldar: Stability. 

[00:18:31] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:18:31] Eldar: Right. Good job, love. 

[00:18:33] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:18:33] Eldar: All these things. History. 

[00:18:35] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:18:35] Eldar: So just to go what live in the city. Hard about.

[00:18:38] Yeah. 

[00:18:38] Billy: But I would argue otherwise, right? Like in her head, the life that she has right now of working at the best hospital in the city, living five minutes, walk away from that hospital, like in a nice Manhattan apartment, being free, being able to buy anything she wanted, like being with me. She'd have to be more responsible, probably start saving for a kid's, um, uh, school account or whatever.

[00:19:02] Mm-hmm. What do you call that? Like five, two, nine 

[00:19:04] Eldar: college? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:19:05] Billy: We've had like visions of like saving for that maybe one day having a kids go to like Ridgewood High School or something. Right. So more serious matters. It's just a girl wanting to be a girl, man. Like, 

[00:19:15] Eldar: well, 

[00:19:15] Billy: you don't buy as, 

[00:19:17] Eldar: but you're trading off, you know, you're trading off very specifics.

[00:19:21] Like yeah. You're taking a, you're taken away from the fact that that relationship is worth something. You know what I mean? Like Yeah. The human interaction, connectedness, love, I think is worth a lot more than any type of, I 

[00:19:32] Billy: think she's definitely undermining that. Right? She's, 

[00:19:34] Eldar: she's 

[00:19:35] Billy: not looking at it 

[00:19:37] Toliy: as like, oh, absolutely.

[00:19:37] Yeah. Like if you have a friendship, for example, let's just say that, you know, for example, let's just say that you and Mike grow to be good friends. 

[00:19:43] Yeah. 

[00:19:44] Toliy: And like, you guys are like, I don't know, planning to do something, or you guys are hanging out and you're, you're like, you're not gonna ditch Mike to grab a slice of pizza on your own.

[00:19:52] Billy: No. 

[00:19:53] Toliy: Right? 

[00:19:53] Yeah. 

[00:19:53] Toliy: So like, same thing here. I think that like if, if you guys have something that's worth holding onto mm-hmm. And something that's important and valuable, you don't go to someone and say like, Hey, like actually, um, I think we should break up because my commute's gonna be way better there and I'm gonna be really close to my job.

[00:20:11] And Yeah. That's why we should break, break up. I, I don't think that people break up over those kinds of reasons. And if, like, I, I, I think if they do, like, if that's what they're vocalizing, then I, yeah. I think that there's some like underlying things that are not, haven't been said, you know, because Yeah.

[00:20:28] Like you, she, I, I don't think that you or her would trade something really valuable for like, again, a convenience thing. Like, hey, 

[00:20:36] Eldar: unless, unless these two individuals value those types of things much higher than that which they had. Yes. And, and, and in today's society we see this a lot where it's like people are measuring what they check boxing shit.

[00:20:49] Right. By this age, I gotta get this done by this age, I gotta do this, this, this, and the third and next thing you know, you have a list of all these things that are society's priorities. 

[00:21:00] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:21:00] Eldar: Versus actually advocating for who you actually are on the inside. 

[00:21:04] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:21:04] Eldar: And a lot of times that takes over. 

[00:21:06] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:21:07] Uh, no, I, I, absolutely. I think that that's 

[00:21:09] Eldar: definitely a bit. Right. So, so, so if the relationship was grounded on, you know, these types of conveniences, right. They overlook the fact that, like, being in a relationship, being in a comradery or a friendship for a long period of time, right. Is not that valued.

[00:21:25] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like what's, what's the value to you of relationship, of friendship, of like 

[00:21:30] Eldar: love 

[00:21:30] Toliy: in general things, 

[00:21:31] Eldar: right? Yeah. Especially when you're saying that like, Hey, the love was amazing. 

[00:21:33] Toliy: Yeah. There's no, there's no job out there. There's no like item out there. There's no purse, there's no video game, there's no anything location that's going to surpass that.

[00:21:44] You 

[00:21:44] Eldar: know, a human 

[00:21:45] Billy: for sure for me human. Human for 

[00:21:47] Mike: human. 

[00:21:47] Billy: Yeah. That's why I'm grieving that much. Right. That's why I've suffered like every single day for this, uh, eight months. But she's just not seeing it in that. 

[00:21:55] Mike: Right. Yeah. I think, I think a lot of times in like, uh, relationships, um, not, maybe not, like, uh, there's not, not necessarily a good thing.

[00:22:05] One person loves a lot more than the other. So you definitely seem like you were really, really crazy about her. Obviously we know your perspective, I can't speak for her, but maybe you felt much stronger about her than she did it by you, but it was never like expressed. 

[00:22:21] Billy: Yeah. I mean, 

[00:22:21] Eldar: well, I'm questioning the fact that they actually knew each other, right?

[00:22:25] Mm-hmm. Because we're talking about values here and now Billy's sitting here saying, look, I value the relationship, I value this, what you guys are talking about. Mm-hmm. And that individual right there did not, because she's quote unquote hiding behind the reasons of, Hey, it's my job's gonna be closer. Oh, I wanted to be close to the city.

[00:22:41] Like, what are we talking about here? Yeah. 

[00:22:42] Billy: No, no. I mean, she hasn't said that as the reason. This is just what I'm speculating. I'm, yeah. Oh, you 

[00:22:47] Eldar: interpreting that? 

[00:22:48] Billy: Yeah. I mean, her reasons is, 

[00:22:50] Toliy: is is she not willing to give you reasons or 

[00:22:52] Billy: did she give you No, she gave me a reason. She said, uh, what's reason I've mistreated her constantly throughout the relationship to the point that it's just gotten like, you know, she's carrying all these traumas of my mistreatment towards her.

[00:23:04] Right. Um, 

[00:23:05] Eldar: which you don't think that that's 

[00:23:06] Billy: fair. No, no. That is fair to some extent. But, um, yeah, like, like that's why, um, addressed like early on in our relationship, we did have some fights that were pretty intense. Um, I would call it like a little toxic and all that. But like, why would that matter? Four and a half years down the line, when we are in like a pax manner, like we're in a like peaceful stage and we've known each other inside out, done everything, got engaged six months later, got married at court, six months later, bought a house.

[00:23:38] So she had so many touch points in which she could have been like. Let's slow down Billy. 'cause I still address things. Why 

[00:23:45] Mike: is, is she an impulsive person? 

[00:23:47] Billy: She's very impulsive and she's very gullible. Oh, yeah. 

[00:23:49] Mike: Yeah. So there you 

[00:23:49] Billy: go. Yeah. 

[00:23:50] Mike: So there you 

[00:23:51] Billy: go. But what I'm saying is yeah. 

[00:23:53] Mike: Do you think, I feel 

[00:23:53] Billy: hard done by because of, 

[00:23:54] Mike: do you feel like maybe the pressure of what she's like, you know, kind of the way things are going was maybe a lot for her to handle.

[00:24:02] Like, you know, getting, well, it just sounds like she's 

[00:24:04] Eldar: immature, she's young, 

[00:24:05] Mike: right? 

[00:24:06] Eldar: Gullible and 

[00:24:07] Mike: impulsive. Well, she is young. When, when you guys met, how old was she? 

[00:24:10] Billy: She was 21 and 

[00:24:11] I 

[00:24:11] Mike: was like 28 basically. Yeah. You know, that's like a, that's a big, that's a, that's a, yeah. Seven 

[00:24:16] Toliy: based on what I hear at least so far.

[00:24:18] Yeah. If she's like gullible and like, you know, like he, he sounds like he has a very, he, he, he computes information very fast. Mm-hmm. Like, I can just tell that he's a, a fast thinker, fast processor 

[00:24:30] mm-hmm. 

[00:24:30] Of like, uh, of, of information. Mm-hmm. And she's, and to me it sounds like she's on the slower and so it sounds, it sounds like, um, yeah, like he, he, he said that he wasn't like the dad, but it sounds like he was like the dad.

[00:24:43] Yeah. And then like, she probably felt particular ways about that kind of a Yes. 

[00:24:47] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:24:47] Billy: But she, like, she loved that about me because as a result of, um, our dynamic, her life, like just took a turn for the better, right. Like when I met her, she was a 21 or 20, like 22-year-old, uh, who wasn't going to school and didn't know what is gonna happen in her life, et cetera.

[00:25:07] It was just after COVID and, um, ever since meeting me. Four years later, she's a graduate, she's got a job. Everything like financial aid, no student loans, like all the logistical parts were taken care of. 

[00:25:20] Toliy: Hmm. 

[00:25:20] Billy: And throughout the process, it wasn't only like us journeying through this. Right. We went on so many international trips, all which she paid equally for.

[00:25:30] Right. Like, I set up our life in such a way that, you know, I'm not just paying for everything. You know, I wanted her was have that respect and Yeah. 

[00:25:36] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:25:37] Billy: Contribute, her share maybe like 40, 60. Mm-hmm. You know, something like that. So it was a situation that I had to like, take in my hands because I saw how much she was lacking in the, did did like adult fear.

[00:25:48] Mike: Did, did um, did she ask you to make an, all these like, I guess, uh, improvements in her life? Or were you more so like, hey, took to charge? Yeah. 

[00:25:58] Billy: Were you, I, I remember, I remember our walk to Central Park where I was like, ah. I was like feeling sad 'cause I, I thought I was meeting like a NYU kid. Like, 'cause she used to hang out around there.

[00:26:08] I thought, like, I didn't go into this relationship wanting to rescue somebody, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, but um, it just turned out that, yeah. Financially. Like sometimes girls can be like that, right? Like buying like three or four different martial hotties every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you have less than 300 bucks in your bank account.

[00:26:26] Mike: Yeah, of course. 

[00:26:26] Billy: Mm-hmm. Of course. So of course, if I love, like, I fell in love with her already at that point, and I was seeing all of these inefficiencies, right? 

[00:26:33] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:26:33] Billy: And having like an engineering mindset you fix. But I was like pretty sad about this, and I was vocalizing this with her and I said, one day you're gonna resent me for having to be this figure.

[00:26:45] You 

[00:26:45] Mike: called 

[00:26:45] Billy: it. You called it. Yeah. Yeah. And she was like, no, Billy, you know, since we are going into this knowing this, I will never do that. I'm just so grateful for you to show me all this. And one thing good about her is she really, like, I try to help a lot of different people, like you mentioned, like youth mentorship and all that.

[00:27:01] A lot of people just don't onboard the advice that much. Right. She really embodied everything I said, and she's such a hardworking person and she was able to do everything, you know, like, uh, take that, uh, advice into, um, herself and make it happen for her, you know? Mm-hmm. I was just like the person who was given the advice, but she was living that, you 

[00:27:21] Mike: know?

[00:27:22] Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:22] Billy: Yeah. So 

[00:27:23] Mike: I had, um, you know, like, um, my thought is, um, when two people meet, you know, when they're young, you know, like at least speaking from my experience, it's a different kind of love than like a more mature love. You're a little bit, you yourself, more established, more mature. You have more of a character.

[00:27:43] You have like an identity. And sometimes, um, the one person is in like more that deep philosophical love, I guess, if you wanna call it that. And one person is in a, in a, in a level of more like immature love, right? Excitement, I don't know. And I think sometimes those people meet, you know, and, and uh, it could mature into something, you know?

[00:28:12] And I ideally the love does mature 'cause it's its own entity in a way because it does mature. Um, but um, that could be like a thing where maybe you guys met and you felt a certain type of way. You had a certain like belief and understanding about how important love is. And you had an understanding love, like Yeah, like when we just say, when we all, as people, we use words to describe things.

[00:28:37] Nobody really knows to what extent we are mean, what we say, um, when we use those certain words, right? And it's always up to interpretation. Like I could tell say something to elder and he's gonna maybe interpret it one way and I meant something else. And we may never know that we're actually talking about the different thing when we say whatever we say to each other.

[00:29:00] As I, I mean, as you kind of get to know each other and you start discussing more of the words and what they actually mean and what you're trying to say, then you can understand what's actually happening or not happening. 

[00:29:14] Eldar: That's a good point, Mike. But I think that, uh, that's a little bit deeper than we should go now.

[00:29:19] I think that we should maybe explore what Billy said earlier about he felt already that the way he was being with her Yeah. That she was gonna resent them down the line. 

[00:29:30] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:30] Eldar: I wanna know why did he get that feeling? What was pointing in that direction, and what did he already know? 

[00:29:36] Billy: Because of course, right.

[00:29:37] Like I was in the 21-year-old in this relationship, so I, I know from my experience of just helping some cousins of mine or some friends of mine, the helper usually, um, like after fulfilling his, um, 

[00:29:52] Eldar: duty 

[00:29:52] Billy: Yeah. Duty gets kind of discarded in a way. Right? Like, they don't need you anymore. They don't value that much.

[00:29:58] So, of course, I, I kind of call that like in the big, like, no signs of her showed me that just by my own wisdom, I'm, I'm trying to say. Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:06] Eldar: So why did you proceed to do it? 

[00:30:08] Billy: I had to right? Like, okay, you're falling in love with somebody and they're not equipped in life and you love that person. 

[00:30:16] Eldar: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:17] Billy: For selfish reasons and unselfish reasons you wanna help. Well, tell 

[00:30:20] Eldar: me the selfish reasons. 

[00:30:21] Billy: Why wouldn't I wanna. Better wife someday for, for myself. Right. 

[00:30:27] Eldar: Well, sure. Then you would have to talk to me about how, how do you, what do you, what are your, what are your understanding on how people should learn?

[00:30:35] Billy: See, I always did this through experience, like Yeah. Through experience 

[00:30:38] Eldar: or through someone, right. Kind of forcing their knowledge upon somebody else. Yeah. And teaching them when they're not asking for, for the lesson, for example. 

[00:30:45] Billy: That's true. I mean, but she was asking 

[00:30:47] Eldar: no, sure. You could probably say that, but Right.

[00:30:49] At the end of the day, what, what happened? Right. Um, I mean, at least with one example that you brought the kitchen example, right? You ended up yelling. 

[00:30:55] Billy: Yeah. 

[00:30:55] Eldar: So, right. Like there's a transition. Before you, she kind of was raising your hand like a nice student like, Hey Billy, I'd like to learn. I'd like to learn.

[00:31:01] Please tell me. And you were nice, but then it transitioned to you yelling at her like, why don't you open the fucking window? 

[00:31:07] Billy: Yeah. 

[00:31:08] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. There was a transition there and I think that transition got away from both of you. 

[00:31:13] Billy: Yeah. 

[00:31:13] Eldar: Where that dynamic between teacher and student 

[00:31:15] Billy: Yeah.

[00:31:16] Eldar: Uh, did not form into something where it was admirable and continues to be admirable where the mentor continued to be the mentor in the relationship. 

[00:31:23] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:31:24] Eldar: But at some point they started pushing back and you started getting frustrated maybe with the way she was acting or not receiving some of these messages is not, was not aligning to some of the things that you were doing.

[00:31:34] So something happened with that dynamic where then shifts happened and the bad stuff started coming in. 

[00:31:39] Toliy: Yeah. I've been, but it's also, I think that if, if you have a teacher student like dynamic, right. And it's not con it like it's not the student raising their hand to like learn. Early. Right. Eagerly, I think the, um, I think it's na natural, um, for the student to be angry over time and resentful to the teacher.

[00:32:04] Why? Um, I think that happens because, um, and, and, and I think it's even more delicate in a relationship standpoint. Um, but I think it happens because, um,

[00:32:23] it happens because the, uh, the process of learning, I think is, is, is delicate, you know? And 

[00:32:31] Eldar: you didn't answer the question 

[00:32:32] Toliy: well. Well, I'm trying to explain. I just, the, the process of learning is delicate and if you have someone that's teaching when not asked Right, 

[00:32:41] Eldar: okay. 

[00:32:42] Toliy: Um, 

[00:32:43] Eldar: which is a wrong dynamic. 

[00:32:45] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:32:45] Which is a wrong dynamic, but it's difficult to, I 

[00:32:47] Eldar: can see how the resentment can start being birthed from that dynamic, 

[00:32:50] Toliy: from, from that dynamic. Yes. 

[00:32:51] Eldar: I don't see how the, the dynamic, this type of nasty dynamic starts to become alive from when the person's actually wanting to learn and the person's given it only volunteering to give the, the teachings after the person has asked 

[00:33:04] Toliy: well, to be taught Well if that's happening.

[00:33:06] But I think it sounds like that wasn't happening here. Right? 

[00:33:08] Eldar: Well, I'm not sure that the dynamic of teacher and student Yes. Wasn't actually 

[00:33:11] Toliy: healthy dynamic, if, especially like Yeah. To, to, to me at least. I think what, what Billy's depicting is like an older person that has way more experience is way smarter.

[00:33:19] A younger person that's not really sure of themselves, not really sure what's going on yet. Mm-hmm. And kind of going with the flow 

[00:33:25] Eldar: almost. He want, he had a desire, right. He had a horse in a race, said, Hey, elder, I wanted to marry a smarter woman. Yes. I don't want a dummy, I'm gonna force this knowledge into you.

[00:33:33] Billy: No, no. I'm guys, I think you guys are misreading this a little bit. She was as driven to take my advice at that point. 

[00:33:40] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:41] Billy: Right. She, she looked at me and saw the smart, decent looking guy that she fell in love with, and she's like, damn, I admire this guy. You know, he's like, he came from nothing and he is made something out of himself.

[00:33:54] And she identified me as this role model kind of, which, uh, she can look up to and, um, turn her life around. And I used to tell her stories of how I went to community college and ended up in like an Ivy League and all that, like my journey. And she was like really romanticizing that whole thing. And she was like, Hey, show me like, how do you apply to cuny?

[00:34:14] Like, how do you get like financial aid? So she was like the perfect student, like early on. But from like, to answer the question that you asked, right. How does it turn to resentment? I think it's universal, man. Like, you know the saying how power corrupts. 

[00:34:29] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:29] Billy: Like, it doesn't matter what, but like just having power like kind of corrupts you and all that.

[00:34:34] I feel like. Once you teach somebody so much and they feel like, oh, it's because of you. Uh, their life has gone better and all that, there's always gonna be something. You 

[00:34:43] Eldar: held that over our head. 

[00:34:45] Billy: No, I didn't. But what what I'm saying, so 

[00:34:46] Eldar: what do you mean by power corrupts 

[00:34:48] Billy: okay. No, power corrupts is like a universal thing.

[00:34:50] Like how 

[00:34:51] Eldar: you had the power 

[00:34:52] Billy: No, no power corrupts is just a completely different, um, phrase I bringing. 

[00:34:55] Eldar: Oh, IM just trying to understand how you're trying to apply that to, to your dynamic. 

[00:34:58] Billy: But what I'm saying is I see that as a universal truth, like where a student teacher relationship always turns into resentment, man.

[00:35:05] Unless it's actually like a student teacher. 'cause it's always happened to me no matter who I've helped, whether it's my cousin, my friends, at the end of the day there's always some bad blood. Like, you know, 

[00:35:16] Toliy: but how, but, but why do you think that happens? Like, why, like, like how could that be a universal truth?

[00:35:21] Billy: Because they gotta look at your face and be reminded that, oh man, it's because of this guy that, you know, I'm even having this job or whatever. Like, for example. But why 

[00:35:32] Eldar: can't they look at it and be, be grateful? Yeah. Why would they 

[00:35:33] Toliy: be grateful then? 

[00:35:34] Billy: They would be grateful. But like, it's just like, oh man, I owe it to him.

[00:35:37] Kind of like, 

[00:35:38] Eldar: why? Yeah, why do you, do you hold that over them or 

[00:35:41] Billy: like Yeah, not necessarily, but sometimes like in the middle of fights or something like that. Like if, if it comes out ugly stuff is being said to me, I defend and bring that up. You know? Like I, I'm never the initiator, but Yeah. Yeah. So in that way, um, 

[00:35:54] Eldar: so only then, 

[00:35:55] Billy: yeah, 

[00:35:56] Eldar: this kind of dynamic happens.

[00:35:57] Billy: Yeah. And also some people don't wanna. They want to like, say to themselves that they made it on their own. You know, like they don't want like someone to be such a strong figure to have like, changed their lives. I feel like. So one thing I used to notice about my girl was, um, she didn't share with her family that much about like, you know, how much I, I kind of influenced her, like to turn things around, right.

[00:36:20] They used to see her as this 

[00:36:21] Eldar: kid. So you didn't get the credit from them. 

[00:36:23] Billy: Yeah. I don't want the credit, but like, it's just like the truth, kind of like in, in a way, like for how much she admired me or whatever, I don't want the credit from her parents. Right. But I just want it to be, have been known kind of, you know?

[00:36:34] Why? Because wouldn't that, uh, bode well for me as a partner. Like, they'll be like, oh, for what? He he's a great guy, kind of. 

[00:36:41] Eldar: Yeah. But for what, 

[00:36:43] Billy: I guess, yeah, I didn't think too deeply about that, but yeah. I don't know. Yeah. But yeah, ultimately it's, it's done. The relationship is done now and um, I'm having a hard time accepting it.

[00:36:56] Right. So you know how the Serenity prayer goes, like, grab me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. 

[00:37:02] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:03] Billy: The courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference, right? 

[00:37:06] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:37:07] Billy: I feel like I score a eight out of 10 in the Wisdom department, but the serenity department of just accepting it, man, Uhhuh, because of my controlling nature and like how I've engineer engineered my life, it's just so hard for me to accept the fact that, you know, my love is no more.

[00:37:21] 'cause I hold. So why do you think this 

[00:37:22] Eldar: happened to you? 

[00:37:24] Billy: Because now, I mean, I've lost like, the color that, that life has, you know, like, 

[00:37:29] Eldar: no, no. But why do you think this happened to you in the first place? 

[00:37:32] Billy: What do you mean? Like 

[00:37:33] Eldar: what this experience that you're going through, right? Because like you always this guy.

[00:37:37] Billy: Yeah. I've had pro problems with, uh, self love and things like that, man. Yeah. Just because of being kind of like a survivor kind of guy in, in life, right. Coming to America at 18 and all that. Mm-hmm. I've always had to like, prioritize, like getting somewhere that it didn't, didn't really take time to like, just understand myself and like, you know, be, you were 

[00:37:57] kind 

[00:37:58] Eldar: of just go, go, go 

[00:37:59] Billy: grinding, go go-getter, man.

[00:38:00] Like yeah. Everything. Like maybe people will love me more if I have this degree or something, maybe. 

[00:38:06] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:06] Billy: You know, 

[00:38:07] Eldar: be respected. 

[00:38:07] Billy: Yeah. Yeah. I've had to do that. And, um, we don't have to get into this, but like, early childhood is pretty difficult for me, like boarding school and all that. So maybe because I had to do certain things to get my parents' attention or whatever.

[00:38:20] Mm. It, it made the sta the accomplishments 

[00:38:22] Eldar: almost 

[00:38:22] Billy: like, yeah. Yeah. So I'm very hung up on these 

[00:38:25] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:38:26] Billy: Accomplishments and helping others and, um, yeah, 

[00:38:30] Eldar: proving yourself. 

[00:38:30] Billy: Yeah. Unable to like, take help from others. Like, it feels, I, I'm always like, let's say my cousin comes and helps me move the house. I'm like, thank you.

[00:38:37] Thank you. And to the point where he feels weirded out. 

[00:38:40] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:41] Billy: Like, why are you thanking me so much? Stop saying sorry. That much, like, you know, it's just, I would love to do this for you. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like birthday parties. I never celebrate my birthday because I can't inconvenience someone to like show up for me kind.

[00:38:55] Mm-hmm. You know, that kind of dynamic I have going on. So maybe it played a big part in my relationship. Yeah. 

[00:39:01] Eldar: Hmm. 

[00:39:02] Billy: Yeah. 

[00:39:02] Eldar: Yeah, no, definitely. There's definitely a lot of things that you've mentioned that at least, that if you start unpacking, you kind of get a little bit of a better sense of it. Right. And then maybe it can help you with that acceptance part that you're talking about to actually finally come to, uh, to terms with it.

[00:39:16] Uh, 

[00:39:18] Toliy: I was just curious about something, 'cause you were mentioning like the boarding school and like your parents. 

[00:39:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:22] Toliy: Did, did your parents always, did you always feel that like they were, um, pushing you to do, I guess like what you guys maybe most both, like mutually agreed are like better things for your life and you did not feel that like you were being like, uh, like, like even though you were progressing, for example, they didn't like show you like the love that you were looking for, for the accomplishments that you were having.

[00:39:46] Like they always not really like willing, willing to, to like be, be like al almost like a proud, proud of you for what you've done, but they always want you to do more. 

[00:39:54] Billy: No, no. I like, although I'm Asian, I didn't have this tiger Asian mom or dad experience Russia, right? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't have that. Mine was more like neglect, man, like, um, yeah.

[00:40:06] So my mom had to be in a different country and, um, since kindergarten I've been to a, a boarding school basically. 

[00:40:13] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:14] Billy: So it's a boarding school where you don't go home until like the winter vacation. So 10 months out of, uh, 12 months you are in school. So it's kind of like an orphanage kind of, you know, situation.

[00:40:27] Like you are never with your parents. So the neglect part, you know, like, um, it's not neglect because back there in my home, like I grew up in Nepal and India, it was more of a privilege to send kids to those kind of schools, you know? 'cause the local schools are just not up to par. Right. So for my parents to send me off, like ship me off literally to a school in India and, um, having to live there amongst other boys and not go home to your parents.

[00:40:54] Like, the only thing I used to be like, crying about as a kid was like going home day. You know, we used to call that when our parents come and pick us up once every year. So yeah, I've always had this longing for like a going home kind of. So that's why in my girl, like recently over the last five years, I found like a home.

[00:41:13] You know, like this was something that was like home for me for the first time in my life. So that's why I feel like that's vanished and, um, I'm having a hard time coming to terms with that. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:41:28] Eldar: Yeah. I mean, that's, which is tough. 

[00:41:30] Billy: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:41:30] Eldar: It's definitely tough. 

[00:41:32] Billy: Yeah. 

[00:41:32] Eldar: Yeah. Um, have you thought of gene therapy? 

[00:41:36] Billy: Uh, I do. I do go to therapy. Um, 

[00:41:39] Eldar: Uhhuh 

[00:41:39] Billy: Yeah. Help 

[00:41:41] Eldar: this whole situation. 

[00:41:42] Billy: Yeah. Yeah, it does, it does help. But it's more like a listening se uh, session. I, I would say, because mm-hmm. Like therapy would really help someone who's like unaware, who doesn't spend enough time thinking 

[00:41:54] Eldar: Uhhuh.

[00:41:54] Billy: And I think I tick all the right boxes for having done all that, you know? Really. So it's just, yeah. So of course I'm aware I'm always philosoph, uh, philosophizing and all that stuff, Uhhuh, so it's just listening and Yeah. All that like, it does help a little bit. Yeah, 

[00:42:08] Eldar: a little bit. 

[00:42:08] Billy: Yeah. 

[00:42:09] Eldar: Okay. It's not challenging enough.

[00:42:11] Billy: What? The therapy 

[00:42:12] Eldar: Uhhuh, 

[00:42:13] Billy: I mean, no, not really. Like, um, 

[00:42:15] mm-hmm. 

[00:42:16] Billy: I mean, it's like a mirror, right? 

[00:42:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:42:18] Billy: And, but things that I've already known about myself, kind of, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, 

[00:42:23] Eldar: okay. 

[00:42:24] Billy: Yeah. 

[00:42:26] Eldar: All right. So do you agree with her decision, 

[00:42:29] Billy: uh, agree with her decision? Like, in leaving me like this? Yeah, of course not, right?

[00:42:34] Like, I feel like we're breaking up over something that easily can be fixed, right? Mm-hmm. There's something called couples counseling, right? 

[00:42:41] Eldar: Yeah. Oh yeah. Have you tried that with 

[00:42:43] Billy: her? Not at all. Like 

[00:42:44] Eldar: you didn't 

[00:42:45] Billy: get the chance? From my point of view, the first time someone ever complained about me in this relationship was the first time, like someone left, right?

[00:42:52] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:42:53] Billy: So, uh, it's hard for me to, uh. I haven't been like a bad guy at all in the relationship where she's been like, Billy, if you don't change, this is the final straw or something. This wasn't it. Yeah, no, of course not. 

[00:43:03] Eldar: Is it, was she Asian too? 

[00:43:05] Billy: No. No. She's white. Yeah. 

[00:43:06] Eldar: Oh, she's white. Okay. The reason why I was asking is North Carolina, because I know 

[00:43:09] Billy: that 

[00:43:09] Eldar: the Asian dynamic a lot of times, right.

[00:43:11] They bottle everything in and they kind of don't 

[00:43:13] Billy: Yeah. In a way, I wish she was like a Christian or something, or I wish she had some like Italian roots or Irish or something. Like Uhhuh a little bit more tied to the immigrant community, like upon which, like the values of a marriage or something like that would keep her, you know?

[00:43:30] I feel like she's just, 

[00:43:32] Eldar: yeah. But you know, Billy, like, it's almost like you setting yourself up for something where it's like, hey, like, you know, again, it's like external factors of 

[00:43:41] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:43:42] Eldar: You know, you're betting on something that's so like fleeting, I think, versus betting on yourself and who you are as an individual.

[00:43:48] Like, I've been in a relationship for a very long time. You know More than you. 

[00:43:52] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:43:53] Eldar: And I'm in a secure relationship where I feel secure. Yeah. Like, I, like I, I'm not in it because like we have a house or we share dogs and all this other stuff because I know who we are and what we bring to the table to this relationship and that that's what brings us together.

[00:44:07] Like I know what my home is and she knows where our home is. A home is together. You know what I'm saying? And we betting on ourselves and what we actually have to offer, not the things that we have. Right. Not the beliefs that we have. We have one shared belief, you know, and which is, which is based out of love.

[00:44:23] You know what I mean? And like. You can, can't just, you can't just walk, walk away from something like that. 

[00:44:28] Billy: That was exactly the case. I felt exactly like how you did in my relationship. Yeah. I guess I was wrong though, because the thing is, I remember 

[00:44:35] Eldar: right, you might not be wrong, but maybe the communication level or barrier or something where the other individual did not see the same thing, 

[00:44:41] Billy: brother did not feel the same thing all the time.

[00:44:43] Trust me. That's why I'm like so heartbroken. This is like, you 

[00:44:45] Mike: know. 

[00:44:46] Toliy: Yeah. But like, do you, do you, so do you feel that like, like it's like to me it's like things happen, um, based on what people believe I think are like, for themselves, they believe are like lo logical and justified reasons. Right? So I feel like, um, are are you ruling out that you're wrong here about this?

[00:45:09] Billy: Wrong About what? 

[00:45:10] Toliy: Like your, your, um, perception as to what happened and like how it happened and like 

[00:45:15] Billy: why happened? No, she's clear about like what's hurting her and um, yeah, I think I have a good closure and clarity about what happened. Um, some people are asking like, is there another person involved that she's not like telling me about?

[00:45:29] But I've asked my mom, I've asked my aunt, I've asked everybody for their opinion, like who knows her? And they're like 98%. They're sure that there's not another guy involved. And I've asked her to, and she might be lying to me, but. Yeah. I mean, there's no one involved. Like she's literally just working right now.

[00:45:49] She doesn't have the capacity to like, think, uh, outside her work and her own stresses and, you know, she's dealing with a breakup too, right? So I don't think, yeah, there's like some other reason. 

[00:46:01] Toliy: Well, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not even talking about that. I'm just saying that like, um, I don't know, like, uh, maybe you got it wrong.

[00:46:09] Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like, do you 

[00:46:11] Billy: like, what did I get wrong? 

[00:46:13] Toliy: Yeah. What do you 

[00:46:13] Billy: see? Uh, okay. I had reassurances from her, the Valentine's Day that we broke up. She wrote me like the strongest love letter. The only thing you can get from people is what they're saying and what they're doing, right?

[00:46:25] These are the only two signals you can get from people and how you feel in the moment with them. 

[00:46:30] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:31] Billy: So, like I said, the only way a calculated person like me would move to Jersey, buy a house, and, and I think all things through 10 times in my head, right? I was a hundred percent sure about our, the strength of our love and all that.

[00:46:46] Like, I was discussing like my friend's divorce with her like two weeks before she left me. She's like, oh my God, Billy, that's so sad. They broke up. I could never imagine leaving you, Billy. I. So in my opinion, like there can't be a greater indicator of someone's, uh, relationship strength than her saying that to me.

[00:47:07] Like, oh my God, I can never imagine leaving you. So one thing that I feel like I have, I haven't talked to you guys is, is I think it's mental health too. You know, like, 

[00:47:16] Toliy: oh 

[00:47:17] Billy: yeah. Like, um, 

[00:47:19] Eldar: that's a 

[00:47:19] Billy: my turned Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she turned right. She completely flipped, basically. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:47:24] Eldar: Like we can't make sense of it.

[00:47:25] Billy: Yeah, yeah. To the point based on what your, your testimony is. Yeah. 

[00:47:28] Toliy: Yeah. 'cause also you are saying that you were a hundred percent sure about all these things, right? 

[00:47:34] Billy: Yeah. About her loving me and 

[00:47:35] Toliy: Yeah. But the way it ended that, that, like, that ended up not being true. Right? 

[00:47:39] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:47:40] Toliy: Yeah. So my question was, we got it wrong.

[00:47:42] Yeah. Like, do you believe that you got it wrong? And if you did, like, are you curious to find out as to like how you miscalculated 

[00:47:50] Eldar: that? Yeah. Like, 'cause you were under this impression, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And the impression is obviously the right one. Yeah. It sounds like, but then like you said, hey, like it just, it was, it was a flip of a switch, 

[00:47:58] Billy: so, yeah.

[00:47:59] So, uh, other people would be like, oh, she kind of used you, right? Because, um, in the phase where she needed you mm-hmm. The minute she could help the household with her salary mm-hmm. She didn't make one mortgage payment. Right. Basically we bought the house and by the time the first mortgage payment came, which coincided with her first salary payment 

[00:48:15] Eldar: mm-hmm.

[00:48:16] Billy: She was out of the door. Right. So in a way of course I was used. Right. But I think it happened from her part unintentionally. She's not a bad person at all that much I can watch. 

[00:48:26] Eldar: Well, we we're not, yeah, we're not saying that you are a bad person or she's a bad person. We're just trying to make sense of what's actually going on and what's actually happened and whether or not the interpretation of both sides 

[00:48:34] Billy: Yeah.

[00:48:34] Eldar: Didn't align. It sounds like it didn't align. 

[00:48:36] Toliy: Yeah. Because it's very important. I feel like it'll be, I mean, it'll be, I think very good for you just in general in the long term if you are, are interested in seeking an answer. Like you, you obviously don't, don't have to, but if you are, I think it's just like I, I I I think it'll either positively or negatively shape the rest of your life.

[00:48:55] Yes. If you do or you don't get this answer. And, and I mean, ba base of my observation at least, because like, if, if, if, for example, um, I mean this is a very like, minor one, right? But if, like I tell her, Hey, I'm gonna pick you up at like 3:00 PM and then I don't show up, I'm guessing he's gonna wanna have a conversation as to like, what happened?

[00:49:15] Why, why, why, what happened? Because it was pretty clear like, Hey, 3:00 PM Yes, I agreed. Obviously like then if I don't show up, they're like, yeah. There, there would be like, um, questions. Right. So I feel like yeah. In this example, like if you're a very calculated person mm-hmm. But you were wrong about it.

[00:49:32] Yeah. I'm curious if you're interested in finding out as to like, where was the miscalculation or like what, what happened to lead you to like believe that like, like to, to believe that you were so right about something, you know? 

[00:49:44] Billy: Yeah. So I guess like, yeah, there is an angle that I could have been wrong about like how strong I love and all that was at that point for sure.

[00:49:53] And I would love to like, you know, uncover all that at some point. 

[00:49:57] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, that's, you know, to be under that impression, like you said, like to, to, you know, to finally accept everything. It's hard. 

[00:50:07] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:50:07] Eldar: I'm not sure if it's, uh, if an individual, right. I mean, we know we have, we have, we have a friend, we have a case of the relationship where if you don't accept this or you don't understand it properly, this can shape the rest of your life.

[00:50:20] Yeah. In a very specific way and not necessarily in a good way. 

[00:50:23] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, no, if, if you get it right, it can be a very good 

[00:50:26] Eldar: way. Oh yeah. If you get it right, yeah. Then you can definitely move with bettering yourself, you know, raising yourself up and falling in love again and finding something that's actually right or you can just tumble completely tumble and perish.

[00:50:40] Billy: Yeah. You know, when I just broke up with her, I used to be so mad at like. Social media and, um, certain accounts, like maybe some like influencers out there that are like really pro like divorce and breakup, and they were romanticizing the idea about, oh my God, like I just broke up with my boyfriend and I feel so good.

[00:51:03] And like, you know, she was watching all those things and she was sharing with me. Mm-hmm. Um, certain influencers that, you know, kind of broke up with her, with her boyfriends and all that. And I, I like while you 

[00:51:14] Toliy: guys were together mm-hmm. 

[00:51:15] Billy: Yeah. While I was together and we were laughing at that content and all that.

[00:51:18] And, um, so I used to be really mad at like this breakup having being done to her. Like, like her being, it sounds like she got 

[00:51:27] Eldar: brainwashed 

[00:51:28] Billy: right into 

[00:51:28] Eldar: something almost. 

[00:51:29] Billy: Yeah. But, but then like I had a revelation that, you know, I can't do that anymore. Like my love should be strong enough where if she's feeling these negative forces, she should be able to say that, oh, oh no.

[00:51:39] Like, this is not our love, you know? But yeah, I guess I was wrong in that way. Like, she was able to get influenced self-admittedly from her part, she's known as like Miss Gullible in a school or whatever, but she got influenced and like, so she broke up with me, man. It's, it's as simple as that. Like I used to be mad at.

[00:51:59] People making a breakup with me. Like, you know, she used to like go to chat GD and get validated and be like, oh my God, Billy, what you did to me, how you, what all like we went through is so wrong and all that. I'm like, sure, sure. Whatever. Like, I'm sorry, let's get through that. Whatever. Like, it happened four years ago, Sierra, and we got married in year four.

[00:52:19] Like, you know, why is that coming up now? She's like, it's it's haunting me now. And I'm like, I'm sorry, let's work on that. And um, they just helped her create this narrative where she was this victim, you know, basically. 

[00:52:32] Toliy: Mm. 

[00:52:32] Billy: And I used to be so mad at that like, oh my God, how can Chad, GPD like, do that? Like, why is she going online?

[00:52:38] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:38] Billy: But now I just, I have come to the peace that, you know what, it's her man. Like, you know, stop making excuses for her that she got influence, whatever. I have to accept the fact that she actually broke up with me, you know? So, um, that has been a change in my, um, these eight months. You know, I started off making excuses for her that, um, yeah, this was done to her and she got influenced and all that, but now I'm just realizing that yeah, no matter how influenced someone is, if they were meant to stay, they would stay.

[00:53:08] You know, like, yeah. 

[00:53:11] Eldar: Do you feel like she got away? Like you, you, she got away from your, you know, your whole like dynamic where like maybe you had it all under control? 

[00:53:21] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:21] Eldar: Right. And she kind of slipped away. Where like somebody else influenced her, maybe, or you know, where like you no longer, you were the influencer.

[00:53:30] Billy: Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know, like how 

[00:53:33] Eldar: was it like your dynamic or your relationship was always where like you try to just upkeep that like, hey, you should think this way. 

[00:53:41] Billy: Yeah. And her part too. Right? But like, it's just like the history of our relationship was looked at from a different lens at the same time.

[00:53:50] Like she was just about to graduate and all that. So basically that's what happened. Yeah. And yeah, what I feel bad about is the whole practical point of things, right? Like, she's away living in Manhattan, happily, uh, right there, doing whatever she wants, buying whatever she wants. Whereas I'm home with our cat, you know, I'm home with the mortgage.

[00:54:11] Like I, I'm a good guy enough to not burden her anymore with these kind of things, right? But it's a family house that we bought together, right? It's, it's such a adult thing to do, like to buy a house and all that. But I'm taking care of all of these things. Like I bought a car, you know, first time in my whole family that someone has a car.

[00:54:29] You know, I come from humble roots. So all of these happened in the month of May. You know, it's so stressful, right? An adult would understand that, oh, Billy needs to let off some steam. 'cause he moved from Brooklyn to New Jersey all by himself without a U-Haul. He's handling my graduation, attending my graduation, my nursing pinning ceremony.

[00:54:50] Uh. We are looking at wedding venues, we are doing the moving. We bought the house, bought the car. It's a stressful time, but like, she couldn't see it that way, you know? And, um, I feel like the right person would be like, oh my God, my husband is a little bit stressed, but look at what he's carrying in this one month.

[00:55:06] Eldar: Mm-hmm. She wasn't appreciative. 

[00:55:08] Billy: Yeah. It's just like, it's crazy. And the house also, it's like pretty old, so there's construction and all that to do. Right. So it's, I'm just realizing how much I did in that one month and, um, for her to just like, be like, oh my God, you treated me badly in that month or something.

[00:55:24] Like mm-hmm. It's not black and white. Right. Like, and even when I, that the things that she's saying that she treated me badly was like, the fire alarm went off, man. Like, which guy wouldn't, um, freak out. Right. 

[00:55:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:36] Billy: Um, 

[00:55:37] Eldar: did you, do you feel like you overextended yourself in general? 

[00:55:40] Billy: Yeah. I, I, I, I overextended myself for the relationship though.

[00:55:43] Like, not for her, like, you know, for us to Yeah, yeah, definitely. You 

[00:55:46] Eldar: definitely did. 

[00:55:46] Billy: And I was like, babe, all you gotta worry about is your finals. 'cause this was her last semester in nursing. Yeah. I was like, you just worry about the finals. Let me handle the whole home stress and all that. Mm-hmm. And yeah.

[00:55:59] Mike: Uh, I, I have a question. When I, when I stepped out and I came back, you guys were talking about self-love. 

[00:56:05] Billy: Yeah. You guys all good with self-love? Like, 

[00:56:08] Mike: I think, how 

[00:56:08] Billy: do you practice self 

[00:56:09] Mike: love? Uh, I mean, uh, uh, I think self-love starts with self-respect. Yeah. I think maybe from what I'm hearing. And you mentioned it, so that's why I'm kind of going there.

[00:56:23] I think self-love is a big thing here. And I think, um, like I struggled with self-love for a very long time, and that would bleed. That would show in my relationships with girls. 

[00:56:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:56:35] Mike: It would show my relationship with my friends. Um, 

[00:56:38] Eldar: family. 

[00:56:39] Mike: Family. So, and I think that the thing about self-love is you do a lot for other people.

[00:56:47] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:48] Mike: And you want, like, that credit, um, that validation. You, and maybe you want them to love you back or to show you they love you, but that is a, that's like, um, that's a math equation that doesn't actually work because, um, self-love is not like obviously something that somebody else can give you or show you.

[00:57:14] It's something you have to do for yourself. But in, in a person who's struggled with self-love for a very long time, you always try to do too much and overextend yourself and take on too much 

[00:57:26] Eldar: to get the validation. To get the validation. 

[00:57:28] Mike: Validation. Yeah. 

[00:57:28] Eldar: And but you even mentioned the parents, right? Hey, you should even tell, tell the parents.

[00:57:31] Mike: Yeah. Right. 

[00:57:33] Eldar: Yeah. So these are the things, these are some of the things he's feeling. Mm-hmm. Obviously Right. And adding up because he's clearly carrying the load. 

[00:57:39] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:57:39] Eldar: Why is he carrying all the load, right? Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:41] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:57:42] Eldar: How did the dynamic start where he put her up up there on that pedestal? 

[00:57:46] Mike: Yes, 

[00:57:46] Eldar: exactly.

[00:57:46] You know what I mean? He's down here and he's constantly punching 

[00:57:49] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:57:50] Eldar: For that. Yeah. 

[00:57:50] Toliy: Yeah. Like he, he's put, he's putting himself in a position, I guess, where he's having to like overextend and overcompensate himself. Correct. To get some kind of validation and like, almost like appreciation that like he's doing, but, but like, he's doing things for, for them, you know?

[00:58:05] But yeah, I think, um, yeah, I'm not sure like where that, where that started, obviously. Yeah. You know? Yeah. How, how that came to be. 

[00:58:14] Billy: No, no, that's just me in general, but like in the relationship while we were together, like, you know, when you're saying somebody loves more in a relationship, right? Mm-hmm. It always felt like she was like, I used to be complaining about her all the time to like, you know, my loved ones like, oh my god, like, and I'm not super happy, whatever.

[00:58:33] But ever since she broke up with me, I've just been like head over heels for her, so. Mm-hmm. A lot of ego comes into play too, right? Like, I'm being left. I didn't know like my relationship would ever like end this way. So, you know, so right now she left me and, um, it's easy for her to walk away because I'm the dumpy and she's the dumper.

[00:58:52] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:58:52] Billy: Right? But during the relationship, at least I felt like. Um, yeah, she was like, so loving and always like, you know, kind of like borderline jealous if I talked about other girls, kind of like, she was very clingy for a, I don't know, like white girl, I would say. Like, you know, like she was very Asian kind of mm-hmm.

[00:59:12] Girl, you know, like someone who loves, like, things like K-pop and all that stuff, anime and all that. Mm-hmm. You know, she's a homebody, so she's a very sweet girl. Kind of. It wasn't ever like me putting her on a pedestal. Like everything I did for her was for the betterment of me too. 'cause later on I'll be in a high income, um, kind of marriage, right?

[00:59:31] Like my kids will be better off, et cetera. So it was s Well then you 

[00:59:35] Eldar: almost, yeah. Then the way you operated it was almost like an engineer would operate, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You have identified very 

[00:59:41] Toliy: mathematical 

[00:59:41] Eldar: Yeah. You identified that this is life and a successful life looks like this. 

[00:59:46] Billy: Yeah. 

[00:59:47] Eldar: You have this box, this box, this box, this box.

[00:59:50] And because of the way you are 

[00:59:52] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:59:52] Eldar: You needed to make sure that those boxes are checked very precisely. 

[00:59:56] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:59:57] Eldar: Right? And you've probably overextended the attachment, you know? 

[01:00:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:00:02] Eldar: Towards something like that, rather than, uh, putting, um, emphasis on communication. Right. Value. Value. Huh. 

[01:00:10] Toliy: Putting, putting more value.

[01:00:11] Eldar: Value, yeah. Yeah. Emphasizing, yeah. Things that are actually, are the meat and potatoes of a relationship where you were kind of, um, emphasizing status. And that's probably my next question then is right, like, how do you feel about vanity then? Right. Or, or things materialism. Right. Where, like you say, you're constantly mentioning some of these accomplishments that you are so proud of.

[01:00:34] Right. But at the end of the day, does it all matter when you finally, uh, feeling a heartbreak and you don't have the, uh, person of your, of your, it 

[01:00:42] Billy: doesn't matter, man. Right? 

[01:00:43] Eldar: See, none of it 

[01:00:44] Billy: matters. Yeah. Like, dude, like all I care about is right now the most valuable thing to me is the relationship I lost.

[01:00:50] Eldar: Mm-hmm. So that's why my, go back to my question before I still to say, Billy, why, why did this happen to you in the first place? Does it lead you back to, to answer me and say maybe I, uh, put too much value on things, the wrong things in life?

[01:01:05] Mike: Yeah. Like, um, again, from my own experience, you know, with self-love, you're constantly doing, doing too much because you think that if those people, they're gonna love you, that you'll maybe learn to love yourself. And through that, that kind of situation, like, it's very toxic way of thinking, you know? Well, I'm not, I'm not even sure if you ever think that.

[01:01:26] Yeah. 

[01:01:27] Eldar: I think that, I think that you just hide behind 

[01:01:28] Mike: that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's actually like, you play a hide and see game Yeah. From yourself maybe afterwards I, you know, understood that, you know what I mean? But, but that's kind of what's actually happening. Yeah. 

[01:01:38] Toliy: But, but it's also, I think in, in my observation at least, like just a different, like, I mean, I listen to different types of, you know, like these select shows or podcast and stuff like that.

[01:01:46] And there's. I think it happens a lot like to, like a particular, like, uh, athletes. Mm-hmm. For example, if they grow up extremely poor, they're, they're usually extremely hard workers and they're usually, um, relationship wise, they're almost like trying to like, build a business. 

[01:02:02] Eldar: Yes. Rather 

[01:02:03] Toliy: than, and that's what it 

[01:02:04] Eldar: sounds like.

[01:02:04] Yes. 

[01:02:05] Toliy: Rather than like, because like he, you know, he, he says he grew up a particular way. Yeah. He didn't have like, particular things. 

[01:02:10] Eldar: Yeah. So 

[01:02:11] Toliy: those 

[01:02:11] Eldar: were the 

[01:02:12] Toliy: distinct things. And he like the way that he was living his life, I think that, you know, you, you kept winning and winning and winning. Right. On the different things.

[01:02:19] Like, it sounds like he's not like a, like, like he, uh, um, this is shocking because it feels like a loss and he sounds like he's never lost 

[01:02:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:27] Toliy: Up until he had the control 

[01:02:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:29] Toliy: Of being all successful in the things that he's wanted to accomplish in his life with the work, with the job, 

[01:02:33] Eldar: and he couldn't figure out this 

[01:02:34] Toliy: specific thing.

[01:02:35] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:02:35] Toliy: Right. But I, I definitely see it where I feel like if, if you grow up very, for example, poor and you put a lot of value on those kinds of things because like, you know, like one, one, I mean it's more of like a, like a silly example, but I think it's very relevant. Um, Shannon Sharp. 

[01:02:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:51] Toliy: Uh, ex-football player, I don't know if you know, follow sports at all, but he grew up extremely poor.

[01:02:55] Mm-hmm. He did not have an indoor ba the first time he used an indoor bathroom 

[01:02:59] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:02:59] Toliy: Was when he was in his early twenties. 

[01:03:01] Eldar: Wow. That's 

[01:03:02] Toliy: crazy. He had like an outhouse where he's going in the bathroom out outside. 

[01:03:05] Eldar: Outside, yeah. 

[01:03:05] Toliy: He didn't have indoor plumbing. His family house in Georgia. Mm-hmm. He grew up on the field.

[01:03:09] His family was like picking cotton. 

[01:03:11] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:11] Toliy: You know. He grew up extremely poor. 

[01:03:13] Eldar: How old is this guy? Like 90, a hundred years old. 

[01:03:16] Toliy: Who 

[01:03:17] Eldar: sharp this guy? 

[01:03:17] Toliy: No, he's in a, he How is his family Kong? He's almost economy 

[01:03:20] Eldar: Georgia. 

[01:03:21] Toliy: He, he in Atlanta, he, he's almost, um, 60, but he grew up on a farm 

[01:03:25] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:03:25] Toliy: With his grandparents.

[01:03:26] So grandparents, his like dad was like an alcoholic or like a druggie. 

[01:03:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:03:30] Toliy: And then his mom, I think was there and hi, but his grandparents like more raised them. Okay. You know, and they grew up on some farm in Georgia. 

[01:03:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:03:37] Toliy: You know, um, um, and they were extremely poor and they gr and they worked on the farm all day.

[01:03:42] Like this was like their thing. Yeah. You know, and they, he grew up extremely disciplined and extremely hardworking 

[01:03:49] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:03:50] Toliy: In whatever he, he did. 

[01:03:51] Eldar: So you 

[01:03:52] Toliy: applied that, 

[01:03:52] Eldar: you know, 

[01:03:52] Toliy: him and his brother both became Hall of Fame football players. 

[01:03:56] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:56] Toliy: And um, but he, yeah, he applied that to be successful, for example mm-hmm.

[01:04:02] In accomplishing all those materials things and things. And when he talks about it, he's always, yeah. When I like had some money, he is like, he, he says, even now, he says I shower like seven, seven or eight times a day. 

[01:04:12] Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:12] Just because I can, just because I can't have running water. He says like, because he is like, I never grew out of that feeling of like, wow.

[01:04:18] He's like, I always remember not having water or I always remember not being able to go to the bathroom. Yeah. So he brushes his teeth like 10 times a day. 

[01:04:25] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:26] Toliy: He'll, he showers like seven, eight 

[01:04:28] Mike: times a day. Does he shift 10 times a day? 

[01:04:28] Toliy: Yeah. I like to know how he does a show. He does a show where he sits in front of the computer in his house.

[01:04:34] Yeah. He has a home studio. He's like, I showered before I shower, after it every, every time. 

[01:04:38] Eldar: Wow. 

[01:04:38] Toliy: He does it every day. Wow. You know? So the, the way that he talks, you could tell that he had that like, struggle and he never was able to like realize that like, hey, like he's a millionaire. 

[01:04:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:04:49] Toliy: You don't have to think about like, whether you're have running water or food anymore, heating or like plumbing.

[01:04:55] You could focus on other things. 

[01:04:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:04:56] Toliy: You know? Um, 

[01:04:57] Eldar: he got stuck. 

[01:04:58] Toliy: He got stuck. 

[01:04:59] Eldar: Billy, are you stuck? 

[01:05:01] Billy: Stuck at what? 

[01:05:02] Eldar: Chasing the material. Check 

[01:05:03] Billy: boxes. I mean, I'm very anti materialistic, but, but materialistic for like, in terms of like the intangibles, right? 

[01:05:11] Eldar: Well, the status, right. 

[01:05:12] Billy: The status where it's like, yeah.

[01:05:13] This, I would say more like a milestone kind of Well, 

[01:05:16] sure 

[01:05:16] Eldar: it's the same thing. Yeah. 

[01:05:17] Billy: Because it's private. Right. I don't, like, on my Instagram, it's not like I'm, I'm writing that. I went, I'm a 

[01:05:22] Eldar: homeowner. 

[01:05:23] Billy: I'm, I don't write all that. Like, it's just, 

[01:05:25] Eldar: but you keep referencing this. Right. So what I'm 

[01:05:27] Billy: saying is I reference this because I feel like if I do something I'll get love, like, like, like Mike said.

[01:05:32] And, and like you're referencing too, right. I didn't necessarily grow up poor. I went to like a very privileged school, but yeah. My parents weren't around, so I feel like I have to do something big Yeah. For me to, yeah. You were 

[01:05:42] Toliy: in like survivability mode. 

[01:05:44] Billy: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I moved to here in America at 18 and, um, you know By yourself?

[01:05:49] Yeah, by myself. 

[01:05:50] Toliy: Parents still there? 

[01:05:51] Billy: Yeah. Wow. I, I only have a mom, like my dad, like is a divorced, uh, person. Like, I, I don't, I don't know my dad. 

[01:05:57] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:05:57] Billy: But basically my mom 

[01:05:59] Eldar: You're 

[01:05:59] Billy: the only child. Yeah. Only child. Yeah. I, I went to boarding school, so I used to meet my mom like once or twice a year for Okay.

[01:06:05] Holidays, right? 

[01:06:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:06] Billy: And I moved here to America at 18 and it was a really tough, uh, immigrant experience that I had over here, like from 18 to 24, like yeah. Working dishwashing, toilet cleaning and all that. But I had fun, right? 'cause you're a young guy in America and it's just, everything's so new. Like Yeah.

[01:06:23] New and, um, yeah, all that. But yeah, right now what I chase is like, dude, if I get that Ivy League degree, maybe my family will be more proud. And like, you know, it's that lack of self love that you guys are referencing, right? Not materialistic, but Yeah. It's a materialistic checking achievement. Yeah. Box checking checklist, man.

[01:06:41] That's all I do. Like, see? 

[01:06:42] Mike: Yeah. I think, um, 

[01:06:44] Eldar: you become robotic on. 

[01:06:45] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, uh, you said you are an engineer. Is that what I'm a 

[01:06:50] Billy: kind of, yeah, 

[01:06:50] Mike: yeah. Yeah. I, I also, I think I consider myself like mathematical, like I'm, I think, and I'm very mathematical for a long time in my life. 

[01:06:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:59] Mike: I was always mathematical, even elder will say, I always like to put a period and everything.

[01:07:03] That way the equation is done. Yeah. Once the equation is done, that brings me peace. Yeah. Right. 

[01:07:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:08] Mike: And I think I also, like, I understand what you're talking about, um, needing those check boxes because like there, like people process information differently and I think some people are process information in a mathematical thing where those formulas, they bring them a piece because formulas are logical, but.

[01:07:29] We're not like robots where we could just logically do things. We're humans. We have emotions. So I think we're trying to navigate life in a way of combining mathematical when it's necessary, right. To be more like logical and understanding and, and act out of that. But also we're also human. And I think that's something, something that I definitely, um, 

[01:07:49] Eldar: well, yeah.

[01:07:50] And the 

[01:07:50] Mike: think is a difficult 

[01:07:51] Toliy: Yes, 

[01:07:52] Eldar: a hundred percent. But the thing is also comes in priorities. Values, right? Yeah. If his mom preached that, if the people that he was around preached that, right, 

[01:08:00] yeah. 

[01:08:00] Eldar: He then esteemed those things. 

[01:08:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:08:02] Eldar: Those were his priorities. Absolutely. Right. So like you said, like this guy was hardworking too.

[01:08:08] Yes. Those were his priorities. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So when you get older Yeah. And you just start getting into relationships. You might not even be a relationship type. You might not be compatible. You don't know how to properly talk to people because you focus so much more on goal setting and goal achieving and chasing.

[01:08:21] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:08:22] Eldar: We talk about this all the time. 

[01:08:23] Billy: Yeah. It, it's all the goals, man. 'cause once you get them, I don't even know what to do with them to, to be honest. Well, you go to the 

[01:08:29] Eldar: next goal, 

[01:08:29] Billy: I'll tell you. Yeah. Next goal. Exactly. But the goals 

[01:08:31] Mike: never end. That's the good thing about goals. 

[01:08:32] Billy: Yeah. Money can. But now infinitely.

[01:08:34] Yeah. My next checklist and my diary is just chill and be grateful and be happy. That's literally what I wrote down. 'cause like I have a house and, um, 

[01:08:43] Eldar: and maybe, maybe, yeah, maybe right. Um, the way you were, the way you kind of, um. I mean, the whole projection, the, the trajectory of your relationship, right. It finally came to an end for this specific reason, for you to finally come to realization that like, was I getting this whole thing right?

[01:09:03] Were we actually happy? Or was this suffocating us at some point where you were holding onto those attachments so much that you were also maybe oppressing her a little bit and maybe she snapped out on, she's like, yo, what the fuck? I just wanna have fun and this is, I don't wanna be that serious. 

[01:09:16] Mike: Yeah, 

[01:09:17] Eldar: yeah.

[01:09:17] You know what I mean? Where you had those dreams and now you want to attach those dreams to that other individual without their permission. 

[01:09:24] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:09:24] Eldar: Potentially. 

[01:09:25] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:09:25] Eldar: I don't know. 

[01:09:25] Billy: I mean, it was their permission, but like, I guess they did not know what they're signing up for. 

[01:09:29] Eldar: Correct. Yeah. Correct, Billy. Yeah.

[01:09:31] Yes. And when everything finally came together, I mean, it's a known thing. Everybody talks about it. It's called Cold Feet. 

[01:09:38] Mike: Cold Feet, 

[01:09:38] Billy: yeah. Yeah, exactly 

[01:09:39] Eldar: right. They're like, oh shit, this is what we're doing. Yeah. This is what the requirements are. Oh, I'm not sure if I'm ready. Yeah. And, and I think as humans, I think that's a very normal and good reaction.

[01:09:50] It's an intelligent reaction to It's a fight or flight reaction. 

[01:09:54] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:55] Eldar: Yeah. Because you start replaying all the stuff. You're like, oh shit. Responsibilities is tough. Is painful. Right. Being with another person could be potentially painful because he's scolding, he's the father figure kind of thing. You know?

[01:10:07] All this stuff is like, it's gonna suffocate me away from what fun. Yeah. And we talk about having fun all the time. You see how you came in? You said, Hey guys, you guys discipline here? You like that and that kind of resonated with you. It gave us a compliment to me. That's not a compliment to me, that's a, that's a red flag.

[01:10:22] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:10:23] Eldar: You know, we like to do this. Yeah. I didn't mandate Mike to sit here today. I didn't mandate totally to sit here. 

[01:10:29] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:10:29] Eldar: We kind already come together that we enjoy this process of turning on our brains at least once, you know, in a week to be able to think things through in such a way where we can benefit from this, you know what I mean?

[01:10:40] Uh, versus being on an autopilot and not, um, setting us ourself up for, for maybe like a more of a graceful, self-loving kind of a journey. 

[01:10:50] Toliy: Yeah. Or, or like applying discipline is usually like doing something you don't want to 

[01:10:55] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:10:56] Toliy: Get something. Forcing it something Yeah. To, to get something that you think you do want.

[01:11:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:00] Toliy: Right. But like, yeah, like, usually it's a not sustainable, um, like method and usually grows to like resentment, anger. Mm-hmm. Being fed up being upset. Like, you, you never feel like, like I, I, I think when we set out to do the things, we always want that feeling of like, you, you did something. And like, you want that feeling of the accomplishment and like the, um, like the satisfaction of like leveling up.

[01:11:28] But I feel like Who you, who 

[01:11:29] Eldar: wants that ego? 

[01:11:30] Toliy: What? 

[01:11:30] Eldar: The ego? 

[01:11:31] Toliy: Well, it probably, yeah. Okay. But I feel like whenever we get there, right, like, like, um, I play a game 

[01:11:40] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:11:40] Toliy: That has like an infinite scaling, for example. Like a 

[01:11:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:11:44] Toliy: Process. I. Play. Wow. I don't know if you ever heard, heard of World of Warcraft.

[01:11:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:11:48] Toliy: But I play it and like, you, what? You, there's an infinite scaling, so like, I can't wait to reach like this level, but then I always want to get the next one and the next one. Mm-hmm. The next one, it's never 

[01:11:57] Eldar: ending. 

[01:11:58] Toliy: And, and I'm like, yo, when I get to this rank, like I'm gonna feel good. You know, like, I'm gonna be like, you know, like that.

[01:12:03] And then I get that. I don't feel that way, you know? For sure. So I feel like with a lot of, just in general, like these like desires and wants in life, everyone always, 

[01:12:11] Eldar: Hey, can you just give, just, just, just for, for, for the context Yeah. Because Billy likes this kind of stuff. Yeah. Can you give him the ranks in the United States of who you are as a wow player?

[01:12:19] This is a serious player. 

[01:12:20] Billy: Okay. Well, 

[01:12:21] Toliy: right, right, right. 

[01:12:22] Eldar: No, gimme the top one that you reached before, before you, when you were really serious about it. 

[01:12:26] Toliy: That was probably like top 30 in my role. Right, right 

[01:12:28] Eldar: now in United States. 

[01:12:29] Toliy: That's crazy. Right now I'm right. Right now I'm actually fi 50 something. 

[01:12:32] Eldar: Oh, okay.

[01:12:32] Toliy: Right 

[01:12:33] Eldar: now. 

[01:12:33] Billy: That's crazy. Like out of all the 

[01:12:34] Eldar: players. 

[01:12:34] Toliy: Yes. Yeah. Wow. 

[01:12:36] Billy: He, he's 

[01:12:36] Toliy: nuts, dude. You see? But like, he's 

[01:12:38] Billy: giving, how many hours do you play per day? 

[01:12:40] Toliy: Yeah. Well, he used to be a lot more. Yeah. Yeah. Now, now not as much, but I, I used to play a lot, you know. 

[01:12:46] Billy: That's crazy. I didn't know it was still going on.

[01:12:48] Like, one, one. Oh, 

[01:12:49] Toliy: it's huge. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like one of the longest, and again, it's a never ending game because they, they, they have content that has infinite scale, so you just do the same thing over and over again. But it scales more and more, you know? 

[01:13:01] Billy: No, but it's the same game. Right. They haven't made any improvements to the graphics and all that, like 

[01:13:04] Toliy: Well, no, they, so they once a year release a new expansion.

[01:13:07] Oh, okay. So there's a whole new like, like Got it con like content map and AR area to do stuff every year. But then you have to buy the expansion. You have to pay monthly for the subscription. So like, they're gonna constantly keep creating new stuff for you to like do, 

[01:13:22] Billy: but that's super impressive that you're like, 

[01:13:24] Eldar: yeah.

[01:13:25] Billy: 50th in the whole freaking America. 

[01:13:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:13:28] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:13:28] Billy: Right. 

[01:13:28] Eldar: It's huge, bro. 

[01:13:29] Billy: Yeah. It's like professional athlete level. 

[01:13:31] Eldar: Yeah. But he tell you that at the end of when he reaches these levels, there's nothing there. They're empty. 

[01:13:36] Toliy: Well, 

[01:13:36] Billy: IM in the journey. Right? Is, uh, he, he enjoyed 

[01:13:39] Toliy: the journey? Well, I definitely, I'm definitely enjoying the journey, but I, but I'm giving the example of like, I think many times in life, like we all want things, you know?

[01:13:46] Mm-hmm. Because I, I think we want it because we think, Hey, if we get this, then this will happen. We always feel that it's a cause and reaction. Yeah. So I think in those scenarios, when you apply discipline to get that thing, and then the reaction doesn't happen, you don't actually feel that way that you felt before you had it.

[01:14:04] Right. What, what happens? Anger. 

[01:14:07] Eldar: Your anger, you're pissed. Yeah, 

[01:14:08] Toliy: you're pissed, right? Mm-hmm. But I think when you do things more out of like, like the, yeah. Out of like being passionate and like, because you really enjoy it, then I think you're guaranteed to win every single time. No matter, no matter what. But I think again, a lot of people in life say, Hey, if I get this car, or if I get this job, or if I get this house, or if I make this amount of money, or if I get these shoes, they're thinking they're gonna get something.

[01:14:33] And they never do. Yeah. So they always just keep going more and more and more. And the only thing that builds up is anger. 

[01:14:39] Billy: I'm definitely aware of like the istic, uh, treadmill kind of Right. I don't think I'm that way at all. But like, yeah, I, I guess like why did 

[01:14:48] Eldar: you scratch away all the stuff on your goal list 

[01:14:51] Billy: that was just like, it's, it's a lonely rebelled, right?

[01:14:54] Like writing these things down as like, my mission for life. Kind of like, it's just like a framework with which I wanted. It's, it's more like Marcus realist writing on his diary, kind of, you know, what I wanted, these are my virtues 'cause none of these goals over here were, uh, buy a Porsche or something.

[01:15:11] You know, go on this. Like, it, it was more like what I thought was like virtues that would mean a good life kind of. 

[01:15:18] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:19] Billy: But then again, like you said, like now that I'm here, I bought a house. I have no one to enjoy it with, you know? Yeah. It doesn't even matter anymore. It's a tragedy of, of, of life. Like, it's a Shakespeare and tragedy.

[01:15:29] Yeah. Um, I did push her and myself a bit too, 

[01:15:32] Eldar: too much 

[01:15:32] Billy: strongly. Um, and we did get, like, she's a, a NICU nurse in NYU Langone, right. Like, yeah. She's got it all going for herself, but not with me. Right. So, 

[01:15:44] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:15:44] Billy: I wish I took a little bit of a chill pill in the helping, um 

[01:15:48] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:15:48] Billy: Helping depart for sure. 

[01:15:50] Eldar: That's, see that's interesting.

[01:15:51] Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:51] Billy: Yeah. Definitely. Man, I, that's 

[01:15:52] Eldar: interesting. So 

[01:15:52] Billy: you, I wish I didn't help as aggressively. 

[01:15:55] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:55] Billy: You know, you can still help Yeah. In a, in a chill manner. 

[01:15:58] Eldar: Yeah. I think that, yeah, I think that maybe you've, uh, pressed the gas pedal a little bit too much. 

[01:16:02] Billy: Yeah. And also I wish I was a little bit more selfish, you know, in, in a way.

[01:16:05] Like, you know how guys are like, um. You wanna make your spouse a little bit dependent on you. Right. I, I never thought of it from that way. I just loved her so much that I wanted to give her the best of everything. See, what if I, okay, I helped her get into college and all that, but I should have been done with that.

[01:16:22] Like, let her figure it out on her own. She graduated from nursing, of course, as a nurse, she was gonna find your job, but I shouldn't have gone that extra step of finding this, um, internship for her and like getting her this amazing thing that none of her friends 

[01:16:36] Eldar: have. But you did because you have very specific values and beliefs.

[01:16:39] Billy: Yeah, I did that because it would benefit me too, right? You, yeah, yeah, yeah. You see, and then yeah, selfishly like, 

[01:16:44] Eldar: yeah, 

[01:16:45] Billy: she went on her own, right? Yeah. Like, she is selfish. Very selfish. But I shouldn't have helped to that regard. I buried like I dug my own grave, kind of. I feel like 

[01:16:54] Mike: Yeah. You, you like, um, you, you bought into some goals that maybe you not necessarily value now that you're, uh, analyzing it.

[01:17:05] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:17:06] Mike: You've bought into some goals of this like American dream white picket fence, two cars, two and a half kids, you know, green lawn kind of life thing. But you bought into that, which is, I mean, I think a lot of people do, but, um, you pushed her into it, but then you never ask yourself, is this, I didn't even, the question is not, is this gonna make me happy?

[01:17:33] Billy: I mean, it was gonna make me happy, but now it's not there. Right. 

[01:17:36] Mike: But, but I don't think it, do you think it some something like, do you think it would actually made you happy? 

[01:17:41] Billy: Yeah, man. 

[01:17:42] Mike: But if you always setting goals and then you reach the goals, 

[01:17:46] Billy: thank you. 

[01:17:47] Mike: You reach the goals and then you have to keep moving 

[01:17:49] Billy: to, I didn't have any more goals, really.

[01:17:51] Like you think So this is my final goal where, you know, I have a wife, some kids, a dog and a cat, and just 

[01:17:56] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:17:57] Billy: I was trying to recreate the home that I never had as a kid. Yeah. You know, like, 

[01:18:00] Toliy: yeah. Like when, when he was making these a ab Absolutely. I think that he felt like, um, it, it would make him feel how he was aiming to, to feel.

[01:18:10] Mike: Yeah. You 

[01:18:10] Toliy: know, that like he, yeah. He, like, just, just by how he talks, it sounds like he's a hard worker in what he does. Yes. And he's, um, a fast thinker and like, um, driven, you know. 

[01:18:22] Mike: Yeah. A hundred 

[01:18:23] Toliy: percent. And yeah, like, you know, like, I grew up complete opposite. I mean, my, my like, like, uh, my, my family moved to America when I was seven months old, like from the Ukraine.

[01:18:36] Okay. 

[01:18:36] You know, so like, they came here, they went to college here. 

[01:18:39] Mm-hmm. 

[01:18:39] You know, um, and, you know, I grew up just here, you know? Mm-hmm. And like, yeah. Like my dad was going to school full-time, working at like a car wash for like, you know, $4 an hour. 

[01:18:50] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:18:50] Toliy: My mom was just in school not working Really. Mm-hmm.

[01:18:53] And then my, you know, my grandparents were here too. Um, and like, but still the way that I grew up, like. I, I, I never actually grew up poor, even though Oh yeah. My, my, my family was kind of poor. Like my, my parents just like, they spoiled the fuck out of me. Like, I had all of these, they gave you 

[01:19:09] Mike: everything.

[01:19:10] Toliy: They gave me everything they, they gave me like, um, 

[01:19:13] Mike: too much. 

[01:19:14] Toliy: Like, yeah. They gave me the love I was looking for. I never felt like I was like lacking, not love, lacking not love. Mm-hmm. I had grandparents that like, were very loving parents that are very loving, and my parents like, only gave me too much.

[01:19:25] Like, they always would like, you know, like buy the best, like, uh, clothing, the best gaming systems, the best food, like the best of everything. Mm-hmm. You know? Um, e no, I guess like, we were like considered poor, but like, I never felt that way. I never felt like poor. And then when they got, you know, more money and they got jobs and they graduated, um, like I always had everything growing up.

[01:19:48] Mm-hmm. Car, you know, like, uh, you know, eventually they moved to, uh, to Jersey. I had a house here. You know, like, so I, so I always like, I, I was never lacking those things and I never felt like I needed to operate from that lack of, like, I never was in that like, survivability mode, you know, because like they, they were always like, um.

[01:20:09] Extending to, to, to be willing to give 

[01:20:11] Billy: whatever we we're. The complete opposites. Yes. Right. Like, um, 

[01:20:14] Toliy: yeah. 

[01:20:14] Billy: You've been able to like sit on a passenger's seat in life, right? Yeah. You've been able to enjoy the beauty of life and mm-hmm. Look around you invest yourself in World of Warcraft and get to that advanced stage.

[01:20:25] Like Yeah. You know, whereas I'm, I think I kind of had the journey that your dad might have had, you know? 

[01:20:31] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:20:31] Billy: Hyper accumulation, kind of like 

[01:20:34] Toliy: Yeah. You, you, you, you were definitely more in that like, um, survivability mode, but I think that like, yeah. I think eventually for you to probably be a bit happier mm-hmm.

[01:20:45] Like, yeah. You, you probably have to do what, what, what you said that you wrote down last in, you're like a journal. Like just chill, chill out. Because, because like you 

[01:20:51] Mike: guys, you guys have to meet in the middle. He 

[01:20:53] Toliy: has to go 

[01:20:53] Mike: towards your side. You to go towards his side. Yeah. 

[01:20:55] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:20:55] Billy: There's always for yourself, learning from both sides.

[01:20:57] For sure. 

[01:20:58] Toliy: Yeah. Like, like you, you already have, it sounds like you already have more than like enough or more than like that kid before. 

[01:21:05] Billy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:21:05] Toliy: When you were really young, even thought of prob, prob probably, 

[01:21:08] Billy: yeah. 

[01:21:09] Toliy: I think if you slow down prob probably, and you start to realize like what, what you have, you could start focusing on those other things that sure will, will bring more value, you know, 

[01:21:19] Billy: to your life.

[01:21:19] Yeah. Thank you guys, really. Um, and, uh, I want you guys to hold me accountable, right. I don't wanna write down any more goals for myself. You know, the goal is really like self-love. Yeah. And just chilling and just relaxing a little bit, really. And, um, just finding happiness in, in oneself. That is the biggest goal for me.

[01:21:38] And I'm happy that I'm only like 35, coming to 35 and still have like a decade or two, you know, in, in my prime. So I feel like all the way, all the, 

[01:21:47] Mike: again, you have fucking things, you know? Yeah. 

[01:21:49] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:21:49] Mike: That's another like, mathematical statement. Yeah. Yeah. Mean in my prime. I have a decade. 

[01:21:54] Billy: No, 

[01:21:56] Eldar: I said that off.

[01:21:56] You don't know. You don't, it depends what kind of life you're gonna live, you know what I mean? Yeah. Depends how you process this stuff. You know, 

[01:22:00] Mike: there's no 

[01:22:01] Eldar: such, there's no such thing, there's plenty of people in your, in your shoes right now that are completely down on themselves. Right. But there's plenty of people that are up on themselves, right?

[01:22:07] Yeah. People can be in their 45, 55 doing really well or whatever. Yeah. So like, you don't know, you know? 

[01:22:11] Billy: Yeah. But what I'm trying to say is that I just wanna enjoy the beauty of life, man. Like, it's, it's so beautiful. Today my roommate went to like Central Park and he was looking at a cherry blossoms.

[01:22:21] Eldar: Mm-hmm. And 

[01:22:21] Billy: I was just being so miserable and just typing to him like, uh, cherry blossoms are old, you know, I've been in New York for like 16 years, and he was just like, Billy, just because you've experienced this before doesn't mean you don't. Enjoy the beauty again. 

[01:22:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:22:36] Billy: You know, and, um, yeah. 

[01:22:38] Eldar: See, but more than anything, I think Billy, that, um, before you can even enjoy these small things or Yeah.

[01:22:43] Uh, you know, that life has to offer, you have to be able to shed some of the old beliefs, certain old values that you do have. Yeah. 

[01:22:49] Toliy: So it's 

[01:22:50] Eldar: a very 

[01:22:50] Toliy: difficult to, 

[01:22:51] Eldar: and I think that's gonna be very hard. 

[01:22:53] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:22:54] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:22:54] Eldar: For you. 

[01:22:54] Billy: But I, I'm in therapy for that. Right. And, um, 

[01:22:58] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:22:58] Billy: I'll always, like, I'm not a guy who would say that, like, you know, I'm gonna give up.

[01:23:03] Right. So I'll, I'll try to work on that. Really. 

[01:23:05] Eldar: Yeah. Just, yeah. And so, so it's, it's not us holding you accountable to not create these goals. Right. 

[01:23:10] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:23:11] Eldar: Uh, I think our job, at least if you do come around to have these types of conversations to challenge you 

[01:23:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:23:16] Eldar: In accordance to what you actually think, what you believe, and what your outcomes are.

[01:23:20] And obviously through, we're gonna see obviously whether or not you're progressing in that thing or not, because we like to be inquisitive about that, what's going on. And we'll see it based on what you said and your testimony. Um, I personally think that, uh, this is the best thing that could have happened to you.

[01:23:35] Yeah. 

[01:23:36] Billy: Oh man. Yeah. 

[01:23:37] Eldar: You see, you can't, you can't internalize that and see what I see and you're not supposed to. Yeah. But that's how I actually feel. Billy, I'm not lying to you. Not yet. You know, 

[01:23:49] Billy: I cried every day for the last eight months, man. Like, it was hard on me 'cause she was my life and, um, 

[01:23:56] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:23:56] Billy: She gave me so much value.

[01:23:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:23:59] Billy: Like, like 

[01:24:00] yeah. 

[01:24:00] Billy: Like you said, like a Cornell degree and these are all the things that I used to like justify my existence. Yes. And like people love me. 

[01:24:07] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:24:07] Billy: And Sierra, like the girl was the biggest out of everything. 

[01:24:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:11] Billy: I felt so proud to be her boyfriend. 

[01:24:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:14] Billy: I don't know if it's got anything to do with like the trophy wife syndrome kind of.

[01:24:18] Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:18] Billy: You know, like just going to Asia with her, it felt a little good. I'm not gonna lie, like as much as like attention you get in India for being, 

[01:24:25] Eldar: especially if she's exotic, you 

[01:24:26] Billy: know? 

[01:24:26] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:24:27] Billy: Of course. Like I get annoyed about that, but in a subliminal level, of course, man, I'm that guy with this white girl or whatever.

[01:24:34] Like it might have felt that way now that I'm being a little bit honest to myself. 

[01:24:38] Eldar: That's good. Yeah. 

[01:24:39] Billy: And um, yeah, and I lost her, you know, sometimes in some of our deepest fights I said things that are like nuclear bombs and the way I justified that was because I was hurt and someone broke my boundaries.

[01:24:52] So 

[01:24:53] Eldar: it's okay to, 

[01:24:53] Billy: it's a survival mechanism for me. You know, growing up Inboarding school, kinda like, you have to be the tough guy. Like if someone is, 

[01:24:59] Eldar: you can't lose. 

[01:25:00] Billy: Yeah. So, but but 

[01:25:01] Eldar: you would not call this love, right? 

[01:25:03] Billy: I'm sorry? 

[01:25:03] Eldar: You wouldn't call that love. 

[01:25:05] Billy: No, no, that's not love. I'm, I'm talking about like, uh, some of our worst fights.

[01:25:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I said certain things to her that she could still remember till today, whereas from my end, I forget everything. Right. Yeah. So that just accumulated for her and she left as a result of that. Yeah. As well as um, other things. 

[01:25:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:25:24] Billy: But hopefully after the divorce. A month, sorry, a year down the line.

[01:25:29] Both of us can heal and somehow if the universe allows it, get back together. If not, 

[01:25:34] Eldar: oh, this is what you're extracting. 

[01:25:36] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:25:37] Eldar: You still have hope. 

[01:25:39] Billy: I don't wanna have hope. I'm not gonna contact 

[01:25:41] Eldar: her. 

[01:25:41] Billy: This 

[01:25:41] Eldar: is, this is what it's all leading to. 

[01:25:43] Billy: I would not like to have hope, but I'd like to romanticize the idea that, 

[01:25:47] Eldar: you know, yeah.

[01:25:48] Billy: Because she was my soulmate in every way. Like, you know. Mm-hmm. You guys might be thinking that I'm like this crazy Asian guy, like trying his best to like move ahead in life, but honestly, the everyday mundane is what I miss. You know, the coffees, the relaxations, the travels, the jokes, you know, the like, but you miss 

[01:26:06] Toliy: it now.

[01:26:06] Right? It, it, it sounded like you didn't value those things. 

[01:26:09] Billy: No, brother. I, I, I really valued it. I really valued 

[01:26:12] Toliy: it during, when it was happening. 

[01:26:14] Billy: Yeah. Yeah. I really valued it. It's just I wanted us to, we lived in a tiny apartment in Brooklyn. It was. I don't know, 350 square foot or 400 square foot. And then a lot of fights happened.

[01:26:27] Sometimes I used to be like, girl babe. Um, after fighting, I, I used to be like, have you watched a show, big Brother? Or something like that. There are adults living in the same room. Of course you're gonna fight, you're gonna be annoyed with each other and all that as a result of just living in a confined space, you know?

[01:26:44] Eldar: But you see, like, again, you, the way you speak, it's like, of course you're gonna be fighting. Like you're justifying the who, who told you this, 

[01:26:49] Mike: this thing. 

[01:26:50] Billy: I believe so because, um, 

[01:26:53] because 

[01:26:53] Billy: you saw if you spent 24 7, like the, one of the problems that she, uh, she and I had was, yeah, we were like conjoined twins.

[01:27:01] Mm-hmm. We spent too much time together Sometimes. My mom, my mom used to be like, why don't you go to the office? It's gonna be better for your relationship to give each other space and come back and you'll be much happier. 

[01:27:12] Mike: It was, it was it like a dependency too, huh? 

[01:27:14] Billy: Yeah, it was codependency. Both of us were like stuck.

[01:27:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:27:18] Billy: If you go to a bar, she'd be stuck to me, kind of like, mm. And we used to make fun of other couples and they're like a professor and his wife kind of. Yeah. And look at them. They survived the relationship and, and we are the ones broken up with it, you know? It was two like every way, like holding hands and going together, writing our names in every, uh, wooden thing we see in a bar, kinda, you know?

[01:27:40] Mm-hmm. It was that like intense kinda love. 

[01:27:42] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:27:42] Billy: And we used to make fun of like other people, like that's a healthy love now that I'm realizing. Right. Um, yeah. So it's just giving each other more space, distance, maybe respecting each other. Yeah. 

[01:27:56] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:27:57] Billy: In a nutshell. Yeah. 

[01:27:57] Mike: I don't, you know, one, one thing that I learned is anything I learned that I 

[01:28:05] Eldar: learned, nothing.

[01:28:06] Mike: I definitely learned that recently. I know, 

[01:28:08] Eldar: I learned. 

[01:28:08] Mike: That. Learned. I think one thing that I did learn is that anything you say when you use words like respect one another, love one another, uh, it's not possible. 

[01:28:21] Billy: Like, what 

[01:28:22] Mike: do you mean? If you don't love, respect yourself first. 

[01:28:25] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:28:25] Mike: And a lot of times we miss, we, we we're not properly gauging if we respect and love ourselves.

[01:28:35] And I think that's a very, very like, you know, problematic thing. 

[01:28:40] Billy: So what's step one to self-love? Like self-love 1 0 1? What is the first thing to do? 

[01:28:46] Mike: Like, uh, finding out and acknowledging that you don't have it. And seeing, seeing the ways that, and then, you know, yeah. Seeing the ways, probably first step is acknowledging and finding out if this is the truth.

[01:28:57] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:28:57] Mike: And then finding out the ways that this is true for yourself. I 

[01:29:01] Eldar: think, I don't know. Elder, what do you think? 

[01:29:03] Billy: Okay. Once you acknowledge what next, you know, 

[01:29:05] Eldar: self love, uh, well, I'm not sure. The thing is, I think in order to come across self love and actually practice certain things that Mike's talking about, uh, you have to know who you are.

[01:29:13] You have to start from there. Like, who is Billy and why? Right. When you start answering that question, you start finding out that Billy is actually attached to a lot of nonsense. And that nonsense is actually, is counterproductive to self-love. Right? Who is Billy? Who, what, but what does Billy actually like?

[01:29:32] Does he actually like this stuff, right? Does he actually, uh, is giddy and as like a child with curiosity about these things, if he's not, if he's obsessively compulsively attached to it and wants to do whatever it takes bother whoever he needs to bother in order to accomplish that, is that really the outcome you're looking for?

[01:29:50] If not, that's not an expression of self-love. 

[01:29:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:29:54] Eldar: Right. 

[01:29:54] Mike: So you have to answer that question like, who is Billy? Yeah. And you, why you gotta find the things that, that actually Yeah, like you said, make that make you happy. Yeah. But not just happy, like Yeah. Um, that make you happy on the like a such a level of like a little kid something you get more 

[01:30:10] Billy: Yeah.

[01:30:10] I wanna, I wanna be like Tully, that, that's my goal really. Like, because you wanna be 

[01:30:15] Mike: the meanest, 

[01:30:15] Eldar: meanest guy in a group 

[01:30:17] Billy: if he's mean Sure. But, um, yeah, just that contentment, you know, the satisfaction and like not having to do things. Love people say love is a verb. Right. And I use that too much. You know, love might just be love, you know, that's what I gotta, um, settle down at.

[01:30:36] You were just telling me who's Billy? The adjectives that I thought of in my head was just so negative. I thought of myself as Billy. The first thing I ever say to anyone is I'm an immigrant. I'm a survivor. 

[01:30:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:30:48] Billy: Right. I'm a, uh, this guy who's a very helpful guy. Right. Helpful meaning for others. Right.

[01:30:54] Like, not for myself. Not 

[01:30:55] Mike: for yourself. Yeah. 

[01:30:56] Billy: And, um, Billy is like financially good. Billy is, um, well educated, but like, what is Billy in the essence like inside. Right. That's, that's you 

[01:31:08] Toliy: just, you just name status. It's very hollow. 

[01:31:09] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:31:10] Toliy: Very 

[01:31:11] Mike: empty. 

[01:31:12] Toliy: Yeah. Like empty things. Ver Yeah. Versus like virtues that will, um, yeah.

[01:31:16] If you discover them, they'll, they'll, I think they'll fill you more. 

[01:31:19] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:31:20] Toliy: And I think you'll be overjoyed with 

[01:31:23] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:31:23] Toliy: Like exploring those things. 

[01:31:25] Mike: How, how long ago did you start, uh, climbing? Rock climbing? 

[01:31:28] Billy: I started climbing like three years ago, years ago, I would say. And I, I only did that to, um, you know, physically stay in shape.

[01:31:36] Oh, 

[01:31:36] Mike: okay. 

[01:31:37] Billy: A vital was right across my house. 

[01:31:38] Mike: Ah, okay. 

[01:31:39] Billy: And, uh, yeah, it gives me a lot of joy. So 

[01:31:42] Mike: what, what's something that Billy likes to do? Like makes him feel like a little kid? Is there something that you 

[01:31:48] Billy: Dude, everything I do is for not intrinsic value, but instrumental value to, to get something I realized.

[01:31:55] Eldar: Well, look. There 

[01:31:55] Billy: you go. I played a guitar too. To, to get chicks or something, you know, like Yeah, 

[01:32:01] Eldar: I like that. 

[01:32:02] Billy: At least it's honest. Good. So once I had a girlfriend, I didn't touch my guitar, so now I'm touching my guitar 'cause I'm a single guy again. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's, it's sad. Yeah. And, um, I do things like to get like some likes from others.

[01:32:15] Like, you know, it's just, 

[01:32:16] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:32:16] Billy: What do I want for myself Is is is scary 'cause 

[01:32:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:20] Billy: You know, they say all of the problems in the world comes from man's inability to stay by himself, alone in his room, in peace. 

[01:32:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:32:28] Billy: Right. I gotta try to like, be peaceful with just myself. One of my coworkers, he goes, travels alone, and he sits in a restaurant and just eats, buys ice cream for himself.

[01:32:38] Walks along the beach. I want to be like him, you know, maybe, damn. Is that you? Like, 

[01:32:43] Mike: totally. Personally, sometimes 

[01:32:45] Billy: he goes 

[01:32:46] Toliy: to the 

[01:32:46] Mike: beach, beach himself? 

[01:32:47] Toliy: No, not, no, not really. I mean, like, I, I could definitely, like, I'm comfortable myself. 

[01:32:52] Billy: You could do that though. I'm not saying you do that, but like, you would be happy doing that.

[01:32:56] Just no problem having a day for yourself. 

[01:32:58] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. No problem. No, but, 

[01:33:00] Eldar: but he has a preference. Yeah. He'd rather not do that. 

[01:33:02] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:33:03] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:33:03] Billy: I mean, happiness is nothing if not shared, for sure. 

[01:33:06] Eldar: There you go. Yeah. 

[01:33:07] Billy: But like, even if you had to day 

[01:33:08] Eldar: for yourself 

[01:33:09] Billy: into 

[01:33:09] Toliy: the wild or what Yeah. 

[01:33:10] Eldar: You just said that he into the wild.

[01:33:12] Yeah. 

[01:33:13] Toliy: Billy's in there. Good. 

[01:33:14] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:33:14] Toliy: Uh, I was, I was gonna recommend that actually for, 

[01:33:17] Eldar: well, he just quoted it. 

[01:33:18] Toliy: Yeah, 

[01:33:18] Eldar: yeah, yeah, 

[01:33:19] Toliy: yeah. You know. Yeah. The, um, the, the, the phenomenon is that like, I feel like I always hear these. Those words of like sitting with myself, meditating. Yeah. And like, you know, like these things.

[01:33:31] But I think, um, I think it's a lot harder to understand like, what it actually is and like how that actually looks like and what, like, what's the, like it, it, it's never the big, like, it, it's never like the big, um, um, the big buzzword of like, yeah, I want to be at peace, for example. 

[01:33:50] Mike: I 

[01:33:50] Toliy: think Right. But it's like the, uh, it, it's the accumulation of like the thousand moments throughout the day of different things that, that you do, that they all contribute towards what you're talking about.

[01:34:01] So I think I, I think at least it's more the exploitation of that then like, just, just like if I were to say like, Hey, how do I be more at peace? 

[01:34:08] Mm-hmm. 

[01:34:08] We'd have to probably spend the next 20 years di digesting, digesting that, like what that means and how that looks like and what, like what, what to actually do.

[01:34:16] Mm-hmm. But I think that if you start with a lot of the smaller things they will accumulate to, to accomplish that. 

[01:34:22] Yeah. 

[01:34:23] Without you saying, Hey, like, like, like if, if you said, Hey, like I want to be more calm. And I'm like, okay Billy, just be more calm. 

[01:34:31] Yeah. 

[01:34:31] You're gonna be like, like, 

[01:34:33] what 

[01:34:33] is that? Like 

[01:34:34] Eldar: start.

[01:34:34] Yeah. 

[01:34:34] Toliy: Yeah. No one could just be more calm or more at peace or more like loving Right. Or more caring. Yeah. Like they need to understand the essence, I think, behind it. And like what contributes towards. Towards that behavior. 

[01:34:46] Eldar: And I, and I think that Billy, Billy was honest and, you know Yeah. His, his, his thing about, he's like, look, when you mention that, who's Billy?

[01:34:53] He mentioned those things. He identified that like, oh, those identities are not very serving to me. He's like, oh, shit. 

[01:34:59] Toliy: I, I, I think at least a, like a, like a plus that I hear at least so far is that it sounds like Billy's somewhat open to sharing. 

[01:35:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:35:07] Toliy: You know, which a lot of people, um, 

[01:35:09] Eldar: have a problem with.

[01:35:10] Toliy: They have, they have a problem with that. Um, and then two, I think that if they're in a circle like this, there's gonna be na natural challenging that happens from sharing. So it, it, it, it's like a very interesting paradox where, where it's like the more you share, the more pain you'll experience. 

[01:35:27] Billy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:35:29] Toliy: So then two things happen.

[01:35:30] You either stop sharing 

[01:35:32] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:35:32] Toliy: Or you, you have like the, um, like the thick skin and like the, uh, resiliency to go through the pain to then experience more happiness. Yeah. But a lot of people will then stop sharing. Yeah. Because it hurts too much. 

[01:35:47] Billy: For sure. 

[01:35:47] Eldar: And the reason why it hurts is because that we, what we're trying to do, right.

[01:35:51] Ultimately, Billy, right. You landed in this place for why, for what Billy is. 

[01:35:56] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:35:57] Eldar: Right. This is not somebody That's not Mike's fault, not my fault, not Tony's fault. It's Billy's fault. 

[01:36:02] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:36:03] Eldar: Right. So. Ultimately, we all have to keep pointing the finger back at the fact that you got going through a divorce.

[01:36:09] A very painful experience right now is because of Billy. 

[01:36:11] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:36:12] Eldar: Right. And a lot of times Billy doesn't want to take the accountability for Billy. Yeah, 

[01:36:16] Toliy: yeah. 

[01:36:16] Eldar: Right. Billy will point the fingers, Hey, her parents, she did this, I did that. I was the good guy. She was the bad girl. Whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever.

[01:36:23] Right. But the truth of the matter is it takes two to tango. 

[01:36:25] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:36:25] Eldar: And environments like this, the more you share, the more we come to see that, oh well that's flawed. Yeah. That's incorrect. That reasoning is not right. That logic is flawed. Right. This fallacies everywhere. What's actually going on. Next thing you know, we start seeing a picture that, well, Billy wasn't really nice to himself, no self-love.

[01:36:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:36:47] Eldar: And then, which then spilled over to not being loving to her, to his partner. Rightfully so. Yep. That's how these things work. 

[01:36:53] Toliy: Yeah. Billy overextended himself 

[01:36:55] Eldar: a hundred 

[01:36:55] Toliy: percent. Which also led to probably tiredness, short temperaments. 

[01:36:58] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:36:59] Toliy: You know, lack of patience. 

[01:37:00] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:37:00] Toliy: Yeah. Those kinds of things are natural behaviors.

[01:37:03] Yeah. 

[01:37:04] Eldar: And and the good thing is, Billy, why I'm saying that you in a good place is that you're 35 years old. 

[01:37:09] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:37:09] Eldar: Right. You're young. 

[01:37:11] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:37:11] Eldar: Right. People go 20, 30 years. Our parents. Right. Our three of our parents. Oh, 

[01:37:16] Mike: our parents. 

[01:37:16] Eldar: Yeah. My mom curses my dad every day, you know what I'm saying? His mom curses his dad every day.

[01:37:23] Hi. His mom curses his dad every single day. 

[01:37:26] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:37:26] Eldar: They've been together for 40 plus years. 

[01:37:28] Mike: Yep. 

[01:37:29] Eldar: What is this? 

[01:37:30] Billy: But they sold. 

[01:37:32] Eldar: But what 

[01:37:32] Billy: their, their values bring them together. Right. 

[01:37:34] Mike: What values, what values? 

[01:37:36] Eldar: They're miserable. Billy. 

[01:37:37] Mike: Yeah. They're not happy 

[01:37:39] Eldar: just because they're physically there. 

[01:37:40] Billy: Wouldn't you say that they're, this is terrible together than, than individually?

[01:37:45] Eldar: No, no, this, no, absolutely not. Yeah. 

[01:37:48] Toliy: I think every time we have, they're back from enjoying themselves because Yeah. They're constantly pissed off at each other. Like, do you do, like, they're, they're probably more together. Like, because I think in our cultures it's just like, 

[01:38:00] Eldar: it's frowned upon. 

[01:38:01] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. It's more frowned upon 

[01:38:03] Eldar: to, to, to not do this or whatever.

[01:38:04] Yeah. My mom's like, well, I did this for you guys, you know, for the, I, I grew up, uh, my, I didn't have a dad, you know, so I didn't want to, you guys not have a dad. I'm like, ma, we're grown children now. We already moved out. You know what I'm saying? We are in our forties here, and we'll still have a 

[01:38:16] Toliy: dad. 

[01:38:17] Eldar: Well, we'll still have a dad.

[01:38:18] You can do whatever you want. 

[01:38:19] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:38:19] Billy: But any relationship that survives like 30, 40 years or whatever, like, we'll have that level of cussing and all that. 

[01:38:27] Mike: Yeah. The thing is, well see, you see, again, you're under that impression. You kind set yourself up in such a way where it's, Billy knows 

[01:38:34] Billy: everything, people how miserable at the end of the day.

[01:38:35] Right. There is some 

[01:38:37] Mike: who, who and why. 

[01:38:38] Toliy: Some people, 

[01:38:39] Mike: uh, right. 

[01:38:41] Toliy: Some people, you know, it seems like you aiming to be pressure. Yeah. But are you aiming to be some people? 

[01:38:47] Billy: No, no. No. 

[01:38:47] Eldar: Are you, are you, is Billy special? 

[01:38:50] Billy: I don't like to think of in in that terms, 

[01:38:54] Toliy: but, but you want better for yourself. Right. 

[01:38:57] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:38:57] Toliy: Right.

[01:38:57] 'cause if you, if, if you told yourself, hey, like this relationship, we're gonna be together, but in the ne after 10 years from now, we're gonna be miserable. And we're like, yeah, it's normal. Not gonna, 

[01:39:07] Eldar: who's gonna sign up for that? Right. 

[01:39:08] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:39:08] Eldar: Would say, I'm glad you would say she's, she's smart till for leaving.

[01:39:11] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:39:11] Eldar: If Billy had this negative outlook and I kind of was getting the idea that this guy's a pessimist, oh fuck, I'm gonna be here. Yeah. What is the point? 

[01:39:19] Billy: I mean, I stayed in this relationship early on when the fights were going on in year one and all that, a lot of these fights had to do with like, past stuff from, from her past or like, you know, all that stuff.

[01:39:31] There's so many red flags and all that I was seeing, but I stayed because I was like, oh my God. Like, here's a young, beautiful girl that I love and she loves me back and she's turning her life around to be a better partner for me and we're gonna have such a good future. I can't leave her right now, even though I'm not liking her so much right now.

[01:39:49] I can't leave her because, well, it goes where Billy 

[01:39:51] Eldar: violated himself right now. 

[01:39:53] Billy: She just started like, you know, how can I leave this girl? It's gonna interrupt her, uh, flow to go to college and to, to stay. The course of college is so hard to begin with now if I just leave her right now, she's gonna get interrupted and she's gonna go back to, you know, 

[01:40:08] Eldar: you were kind a hero.

[01:40:09] Billy: Yeah. So I wanted to, like, my values kept me, you know, I couldn't do this to a person, but when the time came for her to like maybe think of. It in a collective way. She just skedaddle, man. She just left and yeah. Good for her. 

[01:40:24] Eldar: I, I think she's smart. I think she's smart. No, I, I think she, I think she, I think she's smart.

[01:40:27] She rescued both of you. 

[01:40:28] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:40:29] Toliy: She 

[01:40:29] Mike: gave you guys both an opportunity. 

[01:40:32] Toliy: It sounds like she, she practiced like her own self-love. 

[01:40:35] Eldar: Yeah, she definitely did. She 

[01:40:36] Toliy: practiced a supreme level of self-love. 

[01:40:38] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it's also, I think that, sorry, Mike. Uh, I think that, um, with therapy and when you finally get to that point, I think that you one day have the ability to actually thank her for it.

[01:40:49] Billy: But I, I would've liked to make it have worked. You know, like, I think our beautiful love for four and a half years, I know there was this pressures of getting better, but we also had the mundane and like the everyday, which I, I missed. We are romantic with each other. The, the intimacy was great. Yeah. And everything, right.

[01:41:09] Travels giggling. Humor was a big part of our life. Uh, I think a relationship like Oz for four and a half years, where, you know, I ended up getting engaged in a cultural way. It's important for me, right? In a cultural way and like, you know, in front of like religious stuff and all that, it deserved at least two or three sessions of couples therapy.

[01:41:31] You know, like, it's not something to just throw away, man. It's like five years of our lives, you know, at the end of the day, Billy is not such a bad guy and Sierra is not such a bad girl. I'm willing to see that, the human element of it. 

[01:41:43] Eldar: How much would you, how much would you pay to be a fly on the wall?

[01:41:45] One of those arguments. 

[01:41:47] Mike: A lot. 

[01:41:48] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:41:49] Mike: Yeah. Billy, I think you're like, and, 

[01:41:52] Billy: and we never had these kind of arguments for two or three years until like just the home buying where everything was rushed into the month of May. Right. Yeah. 

[01:42:00] Mike: Pressure, a lot 

[01:42:01] of 

[01:42:01] Billy: pressure early on. It was like, yeah, we survived that and we loved each other more.

[01:42:05] Like based on that. And that's why she even said yes to me for the engagement ring. Mm-hmm. And all that, you know, we had come to our peaceful terms. We had survived a violent, early, young relationship, kinda love, and it had transformed into a more mature kind of, you know, and until the home buying, which brought out a lot of stress in me and she left as a result of that, you know, early traumas came out.

[01:42:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:42:29] Billy: From, you know what I might have said, like. During some of the fights and all that. And she also honestly said back to me, but of course I don't cling onto those things. Right. And everybody's different for sure. 

[01:42:41] Mike: Yeah. But the thing is you not clinging on is not actually like a positive thing. 

[01:42:44] Billy: Yeah, exactly.

[01:42:45] I should have. It's 

[01:42:46] Mike: the opposite. 

[01:42:46] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:42:47] Mike: You 

[01:42:47] not, 

[01:42:47] Billy: I shouldn't have condoned with that toxicity for her and me. Right. 

[01:42:51] Mike: No, it's you. It's you showing like, Hey, I'm willing to eat shit. Yeah. But as long as we're together. 

[01:42:55] Eldar: Well, yeah. That's the thing. I think that Billy, a long time ago has established very specific social norms.

[01:43:01] Mike: Yes. 

[01:43:01] Eldar: Yeah. And he's very attached to those social norms. Yeah. And that he's willing to eat shit, but the social norm has to be checked in his brain. Yeah. And this person finally said, yo, I'm not not playing this game anymore. I had enough. 

[01:43:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:43:12] Eldar: And she, you know, she had to kind of pull the rug from underneath him because she, it was a, it was, you know, fight or flight.

[01:43:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:43:18] Eldar: You know, and she, 

[01:43:19] Billy: but it's messed up from her part. Right. The way in which the rug was pulled. And like, she should have said, 

[01:43:24] Eldar: I can't say it because I don't know the dynamic of the relationship, Billy. I'm only taking, getting your side. And I, I know how usually these things work, 

[01:43:30] Billy: brother. Why to go ahead with buying a house and all that.

[01:43:32] Like, you know, only to stay in the house for a month. I 

[01:43:34] Eldar: would probably say, she 

[01:43:35] Billy: could have said a month 

[01:43:35] Eldar: before that probably you pressured her it sounds like. 

[01:43:37] Billy: No, I didn't. 

[01:43:38] Eldar: It sounds like this was your dream and you had a lot of attachments towards it. And then she probably just kind of tagged along with it.

[01:43:43] Billy: For example, like sometimes I'd be lazy like a guy, you know, playing my own football manager games or whatever, and she'd be like, Billy, come on. It's our break. Let's look at Zillow. Please. Come on. Mm-hmm. Like it, people think that, you know, it's my vision that she tagged along with. Oh hell no. I kinda wanted to move to like North Carolina, that's where she's from.

[01:44:01] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:44:02] Billy: To a low cost of living, uh, state, like slowly, um mm-hmm. You know, don't pay so much in taxes. Relax. 

[01:44:08] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:44:08] Billy: You know, that kinda lifestyle I was kind of wanting, she was like, no, Billy in New York or New Jersey. And she used to like. Pull me over and watch house hunters with me, things like that. So she was subscribed to this, you know?

[01:44:20] Mm-hmm. And she wanted this as much as I did until she didn't, you know? Mm-hmm. Like the car, I wanted to get a very modest, um, 

[01:44:27] Eldar: but you see, that's the, that's the thing, Billy, like you all, everything you're saying that it's, it's, it's leading to the right place because you got extremely stressed out from the whole situation.

[01:44:35] Right. Billy is what Billy's safe, safe guy wants to do it right. Wants to take his steps. Right. In a very specific way. Wanted to go to North Carolina, wanted to save some money and not put too much pressure. He lost that battle. Why? Right. Maybe no self-respect. Maybe he didn't have a voice in the relationship.

[01:44:51] She bolded. Right. Then Billy is again like, all right, whatever. I guess I'll have to succumb to her fucking for her doings. Yeah. And followed her then, right? 

[01:44:59] Mike: Yep. 

[01:45:00] Eldar: But again, the situation's stressful. A lot of money, you know, old house gotta do shit, you know? So of course everything was weighing in on him because he's not in a situation that he's planned out.

[01:45:10] Mike: Right. 

[01:45:10] Eldar: Properly kind of went with her. So now there's resentment on his side 

[01:45:13] Mike: mm-hmm. 

[01:45:14] Eldar: Towards her. Yeah. Where it's like, oh, this was your fucking idea, but this is a bad idea. Now we're fucking, you know, drowning in debt or something like that. Mm-hmm. Because there's a lot of dynamics that It's a lot. Yeah.

[01:45:21] That where Billy, because of the fact Billy didn't have self-love, he couldn't say no what he needed to say No. And he said yes when he sort of should've said no, no. At the time. Yeah. 

[01:45:31] Which, 

[01:45:31] Mike: because yeah, which is we see things. This is, this is the normal. Your parents don't love each other, but at least it's together.

[01:45:37] Yeah. This 

[01:45:37] Eldar: is, yeah. This is where it comes from. 

[01:45:38] Mike: This is all these things. It's all coming. It like we all, I think were shaped by our parents. Yeah. I think this is just a normal thing. And we all took toxic belief systems, toxic behaviors. Mm-hmm. From them. And we lived them out for a very long time, and a lot of them blindly.

[01:45:54] Eldar: And society shows us this too, that this is like a normal thing. 

[01:45:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:45:57] Eldar: You know what I mean? That we all ought to put up with shit. But at least in this circle, what we're trying to do, we understand that with our ability to think so our ability to really pay attention and take, take this thing life seriously and really learn from it, I think we can set ourselves up for a happy life and why not?

[01:46:13] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:46:13] Eldar: And beat the status quo. 

[01:46:16] Billy: Yep. 

[01:46:17] Eldar: You 

[01:46:17] Billy: know, I think that was well summarized. Yeah. I mean. You don't have to put up with all ideas and beliefs. That's kind of ingrained in you. Right, 

[01:46:26] of 

[01:46:26] Billy: course. Like, I thought, like that's just a reflection of a for year old marriage where, you know, couples scream at this is what 

[01:46:33] Eldar: you were kind of going towards Billy.

[01:46:34] Yeah. You 

[01:46:35] Mike: would've been in that. 

[01:46:35] Eldar: Yeah. You would've been in that. You would've been like, oh, it's okay. This is part of it. His dad says this right now. He's eating shit at 

[01:46:41] Billy: work, but how beautiful is it? Like at least they have each other to like go to the graves together with is 

[01:46:46] Eldar: that's your bar. 

[01:46:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:46:47] Eldar: That's the life you wanna live.

[01:46:49] Mike: You came all the way to America 

[01:46:50] Eldar: that 

[01:46:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:46:51] Billy: Yeah. You, you did all this. What's the opposite is like, have you seen any, 

[01:46:55] Eldar: I think happily 

[01:46:56] Billy: healthy relationship that that's been 40 years where the couples don't like 

[01:47:00] Eldar: it's 40 years your mark, but let's, why don't we go around and, and knock on old people's doors and see how they're doing?

[01:47:05] Have you done that research? No. No. I did. At least I did. I did once. 

[01:47:09] Billy: You 

[01:47:09] Eldar: did during college. I did. I, yeah. My, my neighbors, they're very old. I sat down with them and I talked to 'em about relationship stuff 

[01:47:14] Billy: and they were, they 

[01:47:15] Eldar: were very happy. 

[01:47:16] Billy: Chill. 

[01:47:16] Eldar: Yeah. They're very chill, very happy. And they told me everything.

[01:47:19] I can't find that paper right now, but I definitely did 

[01:47:20] Billy: it. So it exists. You're saying like it 

[01:47:22] Eldar: 100%. It's 

[01:47:23] Billy: not a fantasy you, 

[01:47:24] Eldar: it's not a fantasy. And I think that, you know, if you're really serious about relationships, I think that you should study it and really pay attention how to, how to get that. 

[01:47:31] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:47:32] Eldar: You know, and not half-assed because I mean, everybody has a half-assed relationship, bro.

[01:47:36] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:47:36] Eldar: What's the divorce race rate? 50%. 

[01:47:38] Toliy: Yeah. The thing is that, yeah, again, like. I don't think that you're just shooting to have a grave partner in 40 years, you know, or 50 years, you know? 'cause you could probably just find someone to sign up for you for, for that now, you know? Um, 

[01:47:53] Eldar: somebody who's insecure.

[01:47:54] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, 

[01:47:55] Eldar: yeah. If you're an established guy, you have a fucking house, all this other shit, 

[01:47:58] Toliy: you can just, yeah. You're put out an someone easy, you know. But the question is, is that what kinda life do you wanna live? What, what, what? Like what do you want that day to day to look like? Like it sounds like you want better, you know?

[01:48:11] Um, 

[01:48:11] Eldar: then you have to really think about what love really means. 

[01:48:14] Toliy: Yeah. What's actually important and what's and, and what's not. And, and I feel like, um, to, to someone like you, for example, that was like surviving for such a long time and that needed that kind of external validation. Um, I think it probably takes like really drastic measures like this probably for you to have mo moments where you can see and like feel those types of things.

[01:48:39] Eldar: Oh my god. 

[01:48:40] Toliy: Yeah. Because 

[01:48:40] Eldar: wow. 

[01:48:41] Toliy: It, it's difficult to, to, to do that when you're in that survival mode. 

[01:48:45] Eldar: He's been indoctrinated. 

[01:48:46] Toliy: Yeah. He he's been in a very transactional, I think style of, of um, of thinking and like, of living. 

[01:48:53] Eldar: Living. Yeah. 

[01:48:53] Toliy: Right? Yep. Um, this resources gets me this, that gets me, that if I do this, yeah, I'll accomplish that.

[01:48:58] Eldar: This is where I can do better. Yes. This, yeah. 

[01:49:00] Toliy: So I think to the, the currency that you're talking about out there is different currency than I think. Hundred percent current. Billy operates on 

[01:49:08] Eldar: 100%, 

[01:49:09] Toliy: but I think when he's put in this position to have this kind of har har heartbreak and these kind of feelings come out, he's almost forced to start using this type of currency that he doesn't have.

[01:49:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:49:19] Toliy: You know? 

[01:49:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:49:20] Toliy: To, to, to pay. Yeah. And I think, yeah, this is when that self like inquiry happens. I think. Well, 

[01:49:26] Eldar: that's why he's asking about self love. 

[01:49:27] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Where like, I think those, those good questions come out. And then you have the opportunity to, um, 

[01:49:34] Eldar: this is why I said this 

[01:49:34] Toliy: is re revalue. Yeah.

[01:49:36] What, what, what, what stocks you actually value? Do you value the house stock and like the, like the job stock or the salary stock or the, um, milestone stock? Or do you value like again, self-love, self-respect, respect of others? Um, 

[01:49:53] Billy: yeah. 

[01:49:53] Toliy: Right. Like, uh, happiness, 

[01:49:56] Billy: it's high time, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for my twenties and early thirties, I focus so much on the other dynamic, right.

[01:50:03] Out of like, not out of my fault, like just having to survive and all that. Right now I feel like I have like decent amount of resources in which I can, I'm in a privileged position to explore like things like self love, respect, and wholesomeness and all that stuff. So 

[01:50:20] Eldar: unless you, unless you're desperate.

[01:50:21] Toliy: Yeah. And, and unless 

[01:50:22] Eldar: you're desperate. 

[01:50:23] Toliy: And, and the funny thing is that Yeah. If you listen to, like, I'll, I'll bring back Shannon Sharp if you listen to him talk. 

[01:50:29] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:50:29] Toliy: And how he carries himself. He acts extremely poor. And he thinks extremely poor. 

[01:50:35] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:50:35] Toliy: Because he's still mentally poor. 

[01:50:37] Eldar: He's mentally poor.

[01:50:38] Toliy: He's mentally poor, even though he's a millionaire. 

[01:50:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:50:40] Toliy: He's a hall of famer. 

[01:50:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:50:42] Toliy: He has the gold jacket. 

[01:50:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:50:43] Toliy: He has a plaque in Cooper. In in, but 

[01:50:45] Eldar: in inside he's a loser 

[01:50:46] Toliy: inside. He he's a loser. 

[01:50:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:50:49] Toliy: But he's also very, you know, um, uh, in insecure. And he still, like, he, he, he's definitely, uh, slowly getting better at it because he's gone through like a bunch of things.

[01:51:00] Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:01] Right. But just the way he talks and the way he lives his life, he can never enjoy that. Like, he can never be the rich person that, that, like, he actually is rich. 

[01:51:09] Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:10] But, but he can't act on it. 

[01:51:11] Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:12] Because he, he's still in surviving when there's no, like, he's still in like war when there's no more guns outside, there's no more battle to fight.

[01:51:19] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He's still trying to, you know, he's still showering. 

[01:51:22] Billy: I gotta look him up. Yeah. I gotta look him up. 'cause I feel like so many lessons I could learn from that guy, 

[01:51:27] Toliy: you know? Yeah. Like, to, to me, like part of, part of what he says, like it definitely provides you some like, like, it's like a, like, it's funny.

[01:51:34] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:34] Toliy: You know, but like, yeah. Like ultimately, like when you look at him and who he is, like he's a loser, you know, he's a loser. But there's a lot of people that, you know, look up to him and, and esteem him. 

[01:51:45] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:51:46] Toliy: You know, 'cause 

[01:51:47] Mike: of what he has because of the status, 

[01:51:48] Toliy: because of what he has. And it's funny because the person that he's partnered with on their show 

[01:51:52] Mike: mm-hmm.

[01:51:53] Toliy: Another football player, he's the complete opposite. 

[01:51:55] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:51:55] Toliy: You know, he's a guy that buys everything fake. And that's like, you know, he, he just like, I'm all about having fun. Yeah. He got fined almost every single game 

[01:52:03] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:52:03] Toliy: To have fun. Like he did stuff that's not allowed. 

[01:52:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:06] Toliy: You know, like he had a cell phone in his pocket, like he tried to give a rough a dollar for making like a bad call.

[01:52:10] Mm-hmm. Like a joke. He's like, I don't care if they took away my money, 'cause they're not gonna take away my fun. 

[01:52:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:15] Toliy: So he was willing to do all these things where like, oh no, I'm not, I follow the rules. He's like, I, I like, you know, he's very rule driven, discipline oriented. 

[01:52:24] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:52:24] Toliy: His, like, everything is set schedule.

[01:52:26] He's uptight, there's no like 

[01:52:28] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:52:28] Toliy: Deviation from the plan. 

[01:52:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:30] Toliy: And again, he showers like 15 times a day and he lives and works from home. Yeah. What, yeah. What are we talking about? Yeah. You know? 

[01:52:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:40] Toliy: He showers before and after a three hour internet show. 

[01:52:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:52:43] Toliy: Think about that. 

[01:52:44] Billy: That's some OCD level 

[01:52:46] Toliy: before and after.

[01:52:47] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:52:48] Toliy: So that would be like, you need to sh you would need to shower before this podcast. She got stuck and go home and shower again. 

[01:52:53] Eldar: Yeah. As funny as it is, Billy's scary. You have to ask yourself where did you get stuck 

[01:52:59] Toliy: in? And what, 

[01:53:01] Eldar: there you go. Yeah. Go to your therapist and say, Hey, where did I get stuck?

[01:53:05] Toliy: Yeah, yeah, 

[01:53:06] yeah. 

[01:53:07] Yeah. Because if you pick up where you left off from there 

[01:53:10] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[01:53:11] Toliy: I think you'll you'll discover a whole new opportunity for like life Yeah. For yourself. And Yeah. You'll eventually do I think what, what Eldar said that you'll eventually say like, Hey, like that. Divorce was the best, the, the best day of your life.

[01:53:24] Billy: For sure. Man, I gotta, I gotta find myself. 'cause I was telling Mike, one of the realization you have in your thirties is there's nobody coming to rescue you, right? 

[01:53:35] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[01:53:36] Billy: So that's why like, I have to rescue myself really, and, um, start practicing self-love and all that. I'm just looking around myself.

[01:53:44] There's nothing I've bought for myself, you know, I have all this money. The shoe is what Sierra got me in year one in our relationship. This jeans is probably from five years ago. This is something that was thrifted like eight years ago. And this is a gift shirt, 

[01:53:59] Eldar: you 

[01:54:00] Billy: know, 

[01:54:00] Eldar: when you put it together. Nice. So you, like, you're from Williamsburg.

[01:54:04] I don't know if that matters like a 

[01:54:05] Billy: hipster. Yeah. But you know, I could want some nice things for myself. Buy a fragrance or something, you know, like do something for just myself, you know? That's a, without having for it to mean something. Yeah. Like, you know. Yeah. 

[01:54:16] Eldar: That's a start, for 

[01:54:17] Billy: sure. Yeah. Get a massage and don't tell anyone about it.

[01:54:20] Eldar: Yeah. You 

[01:54:20] Billy: know? 

[01:54:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:54:22] Mike: With a happy ending. 

[01:54:23] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:54:24] Billy: With that part. Oh man. 

[01:54:27] Eldar: Yeah. Well, thank 

[01:54:27] Billy: you guys. Yeah, 

[01:54:28] Eldar: for sure. Billy, thank you for coming, for sharing. Yes. 

[01:54:31] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:54:31] Eldar: Let's go around the room. Uh, let's do final thoughts or final wishes for Billy. Billy, let's start with you. What do you think, how'd you do and what do, how do we do?

[01:54:39] Billy: Thank you guys. You guys are honest, right? You guys were not, um, shy of, you know, rendering judgment that I needed right now as I'm being vulnerable and open. Thanks for, you know, acknowledging that I am willing to share, you know? 

[01:54:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:54:53] Billy: I'm happy to, yeah. Yeah. Be able to at least talk about this, like, young men in my position might suffer by not even reaching out and all that, right?

[01:55:00] Eldar: Correct. Yeah. 

[01:55:01] Billy: And thanks to Mike for, you know, calling me to, um, make an appearance in this, um, wonderful podcast. I'll be a fan. I'll, I'll start listening more. Yeah. I feel like there's so much value in the content that you guys, uh, are putting up, so thanks. 

[01:55:13] Eldar: Oh, absolutely. Thank you, Billy, for that. Mike, what do you wish for Billy?

[01:55:17] What, what do you think about the whole thing and what are your final thoughts? 

[01:55:20] Mike: Yeah, I mean, uh, a lot of the stuff Billy was, is saying it resonates to me with me, whatever, what's the way to say it, and what he's going through. I like, I understand it. I went through it myself, you know, with like a bad relationship, heartbreak, low self-esteem, lack of self love, and Billy, I'm, um, older than you and it's never too late, you know, uh, I, I don't feel like I'm too old or my life is over and I discovered, maybe started taking things more seriously about changing my life around, like I was older than you, I think.

[01:56:04] So 

[01:56:05] Billy: thank you, man. 

[01:56:05] Mike: So I think it's never too late. There's no time to like change your life or to go in a different direction, even if it's, you know, 60, 70. But as long as you make the change, like, obviously I don't wish that for you. I'm just saying like, putting the time, it's, again, you are like mathematical engineering mind where you're thinking about it, but you're, you're just, uh, you're just regurgitating what you heard, which a lot of people are like, uh, you are living out other people's ideologies, ideas, beliefs, you know, plans, wishes, dreams.

[01:56:40] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:56:40] Mike: But you never said, Hey, Billy, want this? The fuck, no, Billy doesn't want this, actually. And I think as you start questioning yourself more, asking more questions, being more open, more vulnerable, you might find out what actually, who the fuck is Billy? And what does Billy want? True. 

[01:56:58] Billy: Thanks, 

[01:56:58] Mike: man. So that's kind of what I wish for you.

[01:57:00] Yeah. Thank 

[01:57:01] Billy: you. 

[01:57:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:57:02] Toliy: Yeah. I think that like, you're, you're your, um, next step to me is almost like a, and it's like a funny and paradoxical one at, at, at like the same time because it's like, um, the steps you wanna take it like the, um, my, my, my like a guess like advice for, for example, or like, um. Or, or like, I think a really, so, so, so I think naturally you obviously want to continue to, uh, learn from this experience and develop yourself and change and, and change your life for the better.

[01:57:39] And like, you know, you'll, you'll, you'll probably want to accomplish certain things or get better at certain things, but I think that like, um, I, I, I was definitely surprised at how, um, open you were with particular things and how you were open to, to sharing, even though I do think that we administer like tough criticism, you know?

[01:58:00] Um, um, but I, I, I, I think ultimately all of those self-improvement things to me are only possible if you, um, are no longer the, the judge, the jury, and the executioner in your own, um, like kingdom that you've like created. 

[01:58:21] Billy: Yeah. 

[01:58:21] Toliy: And it's very difficult for you to play all of those roles of everything 

[01:58:26] Billy: mm-hmm.

[01:58:26] Toliy: When, when things happen. So I think that, like, to me, naturally, the more you share and the more that you bounce things off others, the more I think perspective and the, and like, if you're bouncing it off to proper people, they, they should be challenging you to maybe, um, either like, you know, think differently or to just challenge what you say and what you think.

[01:58:49] Because I think it, when, when you, when you have that, um, happen to you. All, all of those changes I think you wanna make will naturally flow into place if you do them for a long enough period of time. I think most people, they will most likely wanna run away from that because nobody wants to, to no, nobody likes the feeling of being told that like, Hey, Billy, like, you got this all wrong.

[01:59:13] Yeah. 

[01:59:14] You know, most people when they hear that, they're like, fuck Mike. And totally. And elder, like, they, they like, they don't know what they're talking about, or like, this person doesn't actually know, or like, they don't have the whole picture. Yeah. So most people I think in these kind of scenarios will have those kinds of feelings because again, it's very difficult to be told that you have it wrong.

[01:59:35] Especially as you get older and old, old, older, you know, like it is impossible to tell my dad that he's got things wrong. Yeah. Or, you know, my mom or like, you know, it, it's, they're, they're very uphill battles to climb. And the older that you get, the bigger of like a, uh, a, uh, blow to your ego, it is mm-hmm.

[01:59:52] That you could have misstep or that you could have gotten something wrong. So, um, the, like, the sooner that you would address that and you put yourself in a position where you're not almost like in control, but you're being like, um, uh, challenged. I think overall the better your life will, will play out to be, but with some, um, more short, short-term pain from, from it, you know.

[02:00:17] Billy: Thank you, man. 

[02:00:17] Eldar: Wow. Totally. That was so well said. And I had some stuff that I was gonna say, but I'm just gonna roll off of, off of what you said and try to beat you and top you, but I probably won't, Billy, you got it all wrong. I'm rolling off of what totally said. Now, prove me wrong. Ask a lot of questions.

[02:00:41] And that's the journey that he's inviting you on, I think, you know what I mean? I believe you got it all wrong, Billy, for a very long time. You did it all wrong. Now prove me wrong. I'm ready to have the discussion. Are you right? Yeah. And that is the challenge. 

[02:00:57] Mike: Yeah. 

[02:00:58] Eldar: And I think that if you get this mindset that totally is talking about, of being this inquisitive, like, wait, what, how the fuck did I get this wrong?

[02:01:07] Well, what are you talking about? Right? This inquisitive guy that's gonna be so curious to find out what the fuck. I think you'll find you, you, you get to a good place. 

[02:01:15] Toliy: Yeah. Because if you, if you peek yourself into that, it, it's obviously very difficult to be like, Hey, I got everything all wrong. That's it, you know?

[02:01:22] But if you start finding holes in your understanding of things or your judgment of things, I think it is impossible to not have a relentless curiosity to figure everything out then. Right. To figure out everything. And it's a natural process, right? Because if you had 20 things on your list, for example.

[02:01:41] You start checking some stuff off and you're like, okay, number one is wrong, number three is off, number five is wrong. And you think that your test had everything all right. I think you're naturally going to be inquisitive on everything now. You wanna kind of open every rock and like unturn everything to see what's going on there and what, what do you have to learn from here?

[02:02:00] And that to me is like a, um, and it's not like a controllable process because you can't unsee what you already saw, right? Yeah. From, from what happened here, for example. Mm-hmm. So because of that, um, yeah. If, if it, yeah. If, if, if you are in that mindset of sharing and going down that path, you, you, you, you'll put yourself in a position where you have a permanent, effortless curiosity.

[02:02:24] Billy: Yeah. 

[02:02:25] Toliy: You know? 

[02:02:26] Billy: Thanks guys. Yeah. Yeah. I'll try my best to embody everything you guys said. Yeah. I know. You all are coming from a place of good, right? I mean, you just met me and all that. So thank you so much for the insights that honestly, I had have to pay so much money to get, which I'm getting for free.

[02:02:43] You know, like 

[02:02:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:02:44] Billy: It's your opinion. And, um, of course the, the least I can do is listen to it carefully and question myself, you, my beliefs. Yeah. Because 

[02:02:52] Eldar: we don't have a horse in a race. 

[02:02:53] Billy: Yeah, yeah, 

[02:02:54] Eldar: yeah. Whether, you know what, whether you listen or not, like Yeah. Our lives are gonna be our lives. Yes. 

[02:02:57] Billy: Yeah.

[02:02:57] For sure. You 

[02:02:58] Eldar: know, 

[02:02:58] Billy: so that's why everything you said, I'll take that, not with a grain of salt, but with some seriousness. Okay. You know, whether I change it or not, it's up to me. Yeah. I don't know. We'll see. 

[02:03:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[02:03:08] Billy: But at least I got the wisdom part right. Of the Serenity Prayer. So thank you guys and I'll try my best to for sure, introspect myself.

[02:03:16] Eldar: Let's, let's thank Mike as well for bringing Billy here, because Mike has this like magnet thing where he has a ability, he's a recruiter. Yeah, he's a recruiter. He knows how to start these types of conversations and people open up to him naturally, organically, and they wanna share, and he feels something in Mike.

[02:03:29] So, you know, thank Mike. So I'm not the 

[02:03:31] Billy: first, huh? He, he is bought like 

[02:03:33] Eldar: some 

[02:03:33] Billy: other, 

[02:03:33] Eldar: oh, are you kidding me? Yeah. All the recruits we got was from Mike, everyone. So, so if you keep listening to the podcast throughout all those people that came and went, yeah. You'll see that it, Mike was, Mike was instrumental in that, in that journey.

[02:03:45] But thank you again, Billy. Thank you. This was great. 

[02:03:47] Toliy: Yeah, it's usually picks people from the climbing gym when they're, it's too busy there and he has to remove them.