213. Control

Are you truly in control of your life, or are external forces like social media, platforms, and algorithms quietly pulling the strings?

In this raw, unfiltered episode of the Dennis Rox Podcast, Eldar, Toliy, Dave, and Mike dive deep into the pervasive theme of control — exploring how social media influence, big tech surveillance, targeted advertising, and cultural signals shape our behaviors, thoughts, and even self-worth. They debate whether we're willingly surrendering control due to a lack of internal discipline, or if it's an inevitable byproduct of modern society that demands resistance through self-awareness and personal responsibility.

The conversation flows from marketing ethics and first-party vs. third-party data signals (surveillance in disguise) to how platforms engineer addiction for profit. Toliy makes a compelling case that many people request this control because they lack self-direction, while the group unpacks gambling normalization in sports, ecosystem lock-in (like Apple's world), and the dangers of esteeming influencers or athletes over building genuine self-esteem.

Key insights include:

• Dave's powerful take: Esteeming others (instead of yourself) is a profound disrespect to God and your own creation — a "crime against yourself" rooted in amnesia about your inner godhood. This ties directly into self-development, Maslow's hierarchy, and breaking free from zero-sum game theory thinking.
• The group explores how AI acts as a forcing function for self-development, mimicking an all-knowing "God" that could either elevate humanity or doom it if we don't internalize wisdom through embodiment and critical thinking rather than passive downloading.
• Deep dives on interpretation vs. perception/judgment, context in decision-making, and why misinterpreting reality guarantees suffering — with basketball analogies and real-life examples highlighting emotional reactivity.

Most insightful moment: Eldar's reflection on disrespecting God by looking externally: "Here you are saying like, 'Hey, God, like, I don't really like myself. I don't like the way I was created.' So I'm just gonna go and look up to someone else." (This sparks profound discussion on self-esteem, idolatry, and inner excavation.)

The episode challenges listeners to reclaim agency: Are companies doing us a "service" with personalized feeds, or raising compliant consumers? Is coordination (like past cigarette ad bans) possible against today's tech giants?

Cliffhanger: If AI is the ultimate mirror forcing us to confront our lack of self-control... what happens when we finally look within and realize most of our "control" was an illusion all along? Will humanity level up, or stay glued to the feed?

Key Takeaways for Building Real Control:

• Prioritize first-party signals and self-audit over external validation.
• Cultivate critical thinking and proper interpretation to reduce self-inflicted suffering.
• Focus on non-zero-sum human elements: empathy, friendships, and spiritual self-esteem.
• Resist idolizing influencers — become your own influence.

Listen now for unvarnished truths on personal growth, social media control, self-awareness, and breaking free from the matrix of modern influence. Raw, philosophical, and packed with humor — exactly what you'd expect from Dennis Rox.

Not made for kids — explicit language and mature themes.

Subscribe, leave a review, and share with someone wrestling with digital overwhelm. What's one area where you're surrendering control? Drop it in the comments or DM us. Follow for more on hypocrisy, relationships, leadership, and authentic living. New episodes drop regularly — turn awareness into action.

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form  - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Transcript

[00:00:00] Toliy: On this week's episode To me, a lot of people who are being influenced, let's just say controlled by either social media or just like, you know, the apps and the platforms, they are wanting to be controlled because they don't have control of themselves. 

[00:00:13] Eldar: AI is almost forcing us to self-develop. Why?

[00:00:16] Because it's acting as a quote-unquote God who's all-knowing and we're esteeming them and propping them up so high that it's gonna start telling us what to do and how to do it. 

[00:00:25] Toliy: Most people, like they talk about one thing and then they get big and now they're talking about all different kinds of things.

[00:00:30] And before you know it, the athlete who, who you liked as a basketball player, well now you also agree with their political stance.

[00:00:43] Eldar: All right, guys. Tonight's topic is control. One way or another, we're being controlled by something, by someone. Um, I guess the big influences obviously right now we can all agree upon is, uh, social media, social influence, influencers, right? Big brands, right? Everyone's somehow s- controlled by something or someone, right?

[00:01:09] I guess maybe we can explore a little bit of how... Is this something that's just kind of an inevitable side effect of society and the way everything is set up, the system, quote, unquote, or is it something that we should strive to kinda resist, and why? Dave, our guest here, brought up an example of, um, how...

[00:01:29] I'm gonna sh- if I'm gonna butcher it, let me know, Dave. How Facebook is actually doing a whole study or research on how to influence the brain, right, or the mind in such a way where you can spend more time on their platform. And I think naturally, I think most of these big platforms will do this type of research, obviously, right?

[00:01:48] The whole point of them, um, being in business, being able to sell advertising space, have that type of influence, is to figure out what do people like and how to keep them on their platform as long as possible. Let's open this up and see what do you guys think about the whole notion of control. I mean, that's everywhere, right?

[00:02:08] Every advertisement we see, it's a control. It's a, it's an effort to control the way you think, the way you shop, and the way you behave So 

[00:02:21] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:02:22] Eldar: I guess maybe we can open it up and say, I mean, we do, we do sales here too. We do marketing too, and Dave has his own business. He does marketing too.

[00:02:29] He does try to do the same thing, uh, and influence and kind of nudge people in order to funnel into his business, right? Yeah. So the question is, is it ethical? . To which degree is it unethical? Where do you draw the line of, sure, influence me a little bit? I'm looking for a new grill, a new barbecue.

[00:02:49] I wanna be influenced. Show me some ads that come my way that is gonna show me the features that I'm looking for, right? 

[00:02:56] Toliy: Are you actually, or is that thing just an example? 

[00:02:58] Eldar: I'm just making an example. Okay. Uh, but obviously, you know, then the companies out there, I guess they almost may be playing a role of a mind reader where they can try to somehow figure out a way to read our minds- 

[00:03:12] Dave: Actually, that's a good point.

[00:03:13] That's a good point. I, I could talk on that point- 

[00:03:15] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:03:15] Dave: it's pretty interesting. 

[00:03:16] Eldar: Yeah. Whereas I, I, I'm just trying to connect it where I think that the big conglomerates out there, they're gonna try to find a way to read our minds and predict for us what is it that we like, what is it that we want, or what is it that we need, right?

[00:03:29] In, in the sense that, like, sometimes I'm going through scrolling, whatever, but if I Google something a week ago, all of a sudden I'm getting all these ads, right? For that specific thing. Is it helpful? Sometimes. Depends what I Googled. It could be scary if I, if I Google a medical condition because I'm waking up to pee at night.

[00:03:46] It can start scaring me into something, giving me more of a paranoid mind, or versus maybe providing me with some solutions or some remedies, at home remedies or whatever. 

[00:03:55] So it's everywhere. It's all the time, right? Mm-hmm. I think the whole goal for them is to be able to somehow control us.

[00:04:01] Is it ethical? Is it right? What do you guys think? 

[00:04:03] Dave: Yeah, I mean, I think that the, um... I think that where it comes down to is this interesting idea of, um, signals- 

[00:04:13] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:04:13] Dave: which is kind of the positive way of talking about it, signals. 

[00:04:16] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:17] Dave: And then maybe more of a negative way of talking about it would be surveillance.

[00:04:22] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:04:23] Dave: All right? 

[00:04:23] Eldar: Signals meaning, like, if I key worded something- 

[00:04:26] Dave: Yeah ... 

[00:04:26] Eldar: then I gave them a signal- 

[00:04:27] Dave: Yeah ... 

[00:04:28] Eldar: to market to me. 

[00:04:28] Dave: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay. There's some kind of signals. It's kind of a positive way of talking about- Mm-hmm ... it's almost like talking about the positive and negatives of, of this idea in a sense, whereas signals is kind of like the positive of it- and then negatives would be more the surveillance of it.

[00:04:43] Eldar: When does that cross the line towards the surveillance or, like, intrusiveness? 

[00:04:46] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:04:47] Eldar: Being intrusive. 

[00:04:48] Dave: Yeah, I mean, sometimes I- I'll, I'll be getting that. I'm like, "Whoa." Like like you, you feel an invasion of privacy and, like, intrusion, like this is too much.

[00:04:58] Like, you know, like, you know too much. This is weird. 

[00:05:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:05:01] Dave: But to a certain extent, we wanna know how to market our products. So, like, you know, there's a... Um, and there's, like, there's, like, first party signals, and there's, like, third party signals. What does that mean? Like, a first party signal would be- Someone goes on your website and clicks on the pricing page, and you've, now you've tracked their link click, and you can say, "Well, this guy checked out the pricing page four times."

[00:05:31] "

[00:05:31] Dave: He put these three items in the- Shopping cart ... in the shopping cart," and, um, there's some first-party signals there. 

[00:05:39] Um- They're, they're the party doing, like they're- Oh, they're doing it. Okay ... the, the user's actually taking action. 

[00:05:43] Eldar: Got it. 

[00:05:44] Dave: Okay. Yeah, yeah. The u- yeah, that's the first party. The user's taking action.

[00:05:47] Yeah, 

[00:05:47] Toliy: and you, and you own, like, the, 

[00:05:49] Dave: the 

[00:05:49] Toliy: signal, so it's not some other platform telling you- Giving you those signals ... some- something to- 

[00:05:53] Eldar: Gotcha. It's on your, uh, at your homepage Directly 

[00:05:55] Toliy: to user, yeah. 

[00:05:55] Eldar: Got it. 

[00:05:56] Dave: Yeah. Yeah, exactly right. Mm-hmm. And then there's third-party signals- Mm-hmm ... which could be like, um, Bombora or LeadSift, and it's something like yeah, we saw this person Googled, um, I don't know, you know, plants- 

[00:06:12] And this specific type of plant and, um, this is a third-party signal. W- you know, so it's like we think you should, Reach out to 

[00:06:20] Eldar: them ... 

[00:06:20] Dave: reach out to them. 

[00:06:21] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:06:22] Dave: Um- 

[00:06:22] Eldar: They selling that information to you- 

[00:06:24] Dave: They're selling that information to you ... someone 

[00:06:25] Eldar: else, a third party. Got it. It's 

[00:06:26] Dave: a third party selling you signals.

[00:06:28] Eldar: Got it. Yeah. 

[00:06:29] Got it ... 

[00:06:29] Dave: and that can, and that, that can be done with AI now too, actually. Yeah. 'Cause you can do, you can launch an AI agent- 

[00:06:35] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:06:35] Dave: to do research on- Scavenge 

[00:06:37] Eldar: the whole web ... 

[00:06:38] Dave: scatter, yeah, scavenge the whole web for company news. 

[00:06:41] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:06:42] Dave: We heard that this happened to you recently, so we're sending you this email.

[00:06:46] Eldar: Got it. Understood. Thank you for breaking that down. 

[00:06:49] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:06:49] Eldar: Okay. You obviously knew this. 

[00:06:51] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:06:51] Eldar: Okay. Mike, did you know this? Me and you were educated. Thank you, guys. 

[00:06:56] Dave: Yeah. Me and you are, uh, Manu and Mano here, huh? I like that. I like the way you put that. 

[00:07:04] Eldar: Yeah. Okay Yeah, all right. So that type of influence.

[00:07:10] Yeah. And one is obviously, like you said, could be could be less intrusive. 

[00:07:15] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:07:16] Eldar: And the other one is like, "Yo, wait, you, why are you in my face?" or, "Who are you?" Like, "How'd you get my information?" 

[00:07:19] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:07:20] Eldar: Like, what the fuck, right? But somebody else is selling it. Yeah. Third party is selling it- 

[00:07:24] Dave: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:07:24] Eldar: to someone else.

[00:07:25] That's why a lot of times you see those little disclaimers, right? We don't sell your information to anyone- Mm-hmm ... or, but yada. Until you get that fucking email, all your shit was, been compromised, you know? We, there was a breach, data breach, and now you're fucked. 

[00:07:38] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:07:38] Eldar: Okay. So what do you think, Toliy? 

[00:07:41] Toliy: Well- 

[00:07:42] Eldar: Are we fucked?

[00:07:44] Or is, or is it inevitable that the companies are just gonna get better and better at this, and that the younger generation just have to kind of comply without even knowing that they're complying to- Well- ... a very specific schema of funnel? 

[00:07:57] Toliy: Yeah. Well, I think that, um, one, I think that it's, this phenomenon is being requested by the people.

[00:08:03] Eldar: Really? How so? 

[00:08:04] Toliy: Yeah. Well, because everyone's here all of your attention and all of your time is up for sale every single day. 

[00:08:12] Eldar: Your- But you said the word requesting. 

[00:08:13] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:08:14] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:08:14] Toliy: Yeah. So your attention is up for sale because whether it's conscious or not, mo- most likely unconscious, you are choosing to say like, "Hey, I have time."

[00:08:24] It's available 

[00:08:25] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:08:26] Toliy: whoever's best at getting my time i- is going to get it, right? Mm-hmm. To me, a lot of people who are being influenced, and let's just say controlled by their social media, or just like, you know, the apps and the platforms, they are wanting to be controlled because they don't have control of themselves as like a baseline.

[00:08:45] Eldar: Really? 

[00:08:46] Toliy: Yeah. So- How 

[00:08:48] Eldar: do they... How... What signals do you see, or what, what do you observe in their behavior that they actually are requesting this? Because that's a very strong- 

[00:08:54] Toliy: Well, they're requesting it- ... thing ... al- alm- almost like just subconsciously in how they live their life and what they do. They don't know what to do or how to do it, so- 

[00:09:02] Eldar: So they need to be told

[00:09:03] Toliy: so they need to be told. Wow. Yeah. Companies, and apps, and platforms, and whatever, they all understand this. 

[00:09:09] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:09] Toliy: And they're gonna like, "Hey, you don't really have direction, so I'm gonna give you direction." 

[00:09:13] And they and of course, the people who are going to be consuming this content the most, they need the most direction, so they're, they have so much time that's like av- available.

[00:09:23] So like for us, for example, like if we're scrolling X or if we're scrolling some- something else, like we're raising our hands and saying, "Hey, I wanna be entertained right now as to what's going on." 

[00:09:32] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:09:32] Toliy: My time's available. Fig- like figure this out." Figure 

[00:09:35] Eldar: me out. 

[00:09:35] Toliy: Right? 

[00:09:36] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:36] Toliy: And naturally, like as most hu- humans naturally want the most customized experience as possible, right?

[00:09:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:44] Toliy: Like, that's like a good thing, right? Like you, you don't wanna go through news and see, okay, like, I don't know, if you're into like, let's just say sports, tech, and politics, like this is what you wanna see. Like you probably don't wanna see how to smoke briskets or to do like, you know- 

[00:09:58] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:09:59] Toliy: cooking stuff.

[00:09:59] You wanna see maybe gardening or like some political stuff, but some- Yeah ... sports stuff maybe- Yeah ... and some this, right? 

[00:10:06] Dave: You wanna be catered to 

[00:10:07] Toliy: specifically. Yeah. Correct. 

[00:10:08] Dave: Right? A customized, personalized- 

[00:10:09] Toliy: Yeah ... experience. Exactly. So because of this, you're raising your hand saying, "Hey, I want the most custom experience possible," therefore, like, you're gonna wanna stay here longer now because, like, now imagine if you were forced to see all the other stuff and have to sort through all of that.

[00:10:26] Dave: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:26] Toliy: Right? Like you, you would just be off of X, and you'd just be like kind of like, "I, I don't wanna s- you know." If you had to see literally everything, and you had to sort through all the stuff just to get something that you like, you would be on it over time, it would be less and less and less- Mm

[00:10:39] versus the opposite. So you're, 

[00:10:41] Eldar: so you're, so you're advocating that they're doing right by us? 

[00:10:44] Toliy: They're doing right by the people that are requesting this type of level of, uh, of service. And the, the re- Which is, becomes 

[00:10:51] Eldar: not a service, you know, but surveillance. 

[00:10:53] Toliy: Yeah. The reality is that like, because- That's what 

[00:10:55] Dave: I'm saying, which is interesting.

[00:10:56] Yeah. The, the- It's, it's an interesting conversation 

[00:11:00] Toliy: The reality I think here is that because people don't know who they are- 

[00:11:03] ... 

[00:11:03] Toliy: What they like, what they don't like, they're- 

[00:11:05] Eldar: So 

[00:11:05] Toliy: we're gonna tell you ... they're gon- Yeah. Someone's going to help figure that out for you, and they're gonna push that content for, to, to you relentlessly so that you're as glued as possible to- 

[00:11:15] Eldar: So, okay.

[00:11:15] So then, so then if you're gonna go that far, and we're gonna say that these people are smart, right? We're assuming that they're smart, right? They're doing all this research trying to figure out the brain, the mind, the whatever. Then wouldn't it be in their best interest to have a complying user that is actually benefits the society and benefits them?

[00:11:32] Or is it just a profit-driven ploy? 

[00:11:34] Toliy: Yeah, I think, one, it's definitely a profit-dri- driven ploy, and I'm not sure what kind of ethics there are. I think that there's, like, whistleblowers against all of this type of stuff, this type of surveillance, this type of, like, um, doing. But I also don't think that they look at it in that kind of way almost.

[00:11:50] They're, they're just, like, like- 

[00:11:51] Eldar: Find the buyers. 

[00:11:52] Toliy: Yeah, they're, they... Yeah, yeah. I think they're just trying to give you almost, like, e- they're, they're probably framing it from the perspective of, "Hey, we're just trying to give you more of what you like and what you want," you know? But they're not- 

[00:12:02] Eldar: But 

[00:12:02] Toliy: are they, 

[00:12:02] Eldar: are they s- are they- 

[00:12:03] Toliy: But they're not saying that, like, "Hey, we're gonna trick you during this whole time and get you hooked on this as much as possible."

[00:12:08] Eldar: Yeah, aren't they raising consumers? 

[00:12:10] Toliy: They, they- I- isn't 

[00:12:11] Eldar: that their goal? 

[00:12:12] Toliy: Yes, it is. Mm-hmm. And a lot of these- 

[00:12:15] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:12:15] Toliy: companies, the largest, like, you know, tech companies and stuff like that, their goal is to create a, um, they want you to use as many of their platforms as possible. So for example, like a company like Apple.

[00:12:25] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:26] Toliy: Apple wants you to have everything Apple. Your laptop, your computer- Yeah ... your phone. 

[00:12:29] Eldar: The whole ecosystem. 

[00:12:30] Toliy: The whole- The whole ecosystem of Apple ... they want, they want... Yeah, they create a whole world for you. 

[00:12:33] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:12:34] Toliy: And they want you to have as many of these different tools. They don't want you to go to, like, Google here, Samsung there, Apple there.

[00:12:40] They want you to, stay within their ecosystem so that you're also, like... Then, like, iPhone users, like, they're used to a particular experience, and switching to something else is, like, terrible. 

[00:12:51] Eldar: Yeah. '

[00:12:51] Toliy: Cause your, your brain is already, like, accustomed, like- Yeah ... to it. Like, you really 

[00:12:55] Eldar: like- Yeah, 

[00:12:55] Toliy: like 

[00:12:55] Eldar: you, you can't put me into Apple.

[00:12:56] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:12:57] Eldar: You c- Like- Yeah ... I mean, it'll be a forceful, painful experience. 

[00:12:59] Toliy: Yeah. Like every, like the... I mean, I haven't switched in a while, but when I did go to, like, Android, I thought it was terrible. Yeah. I thought it was awful. Yeah. For me,

[00:13:05] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:13:06] Toliy: So, we're accustomed to it, and we like it, and then that's it.

[00:13:09] Now you have, like, kind of customers and consumers for life, and they will continue to now they have their own credit cards. They have their own banks. 

[00:13:17] You can have an Apple debit card. Mm-hmm. You can have an Apple credit card.

[00:13:21] Eldar: But you're saying that we all are requesting this- 

[00:13:23] Toliy: We're 

[00:13:24] Eldar: requesting-

[00:13:24] subconsciously 

[00:13:25] Toliy: or consciously? Yeah, we're requesting it because one, we're looking for ways to, like, uh- Be entertained ... reduce, like suffering, to kill pain. Mm-hmm, 

[00:13:31] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:13:32] Toliy: We're looking for ways, like outlets to like, relax- Mm. Right? We're looking for, for like help almost. Yeah. And these apps and these platforms I think are right there to, to capture that.

[00:13:43] Eldar: That's a very interesting point. So are they doing something unethical? 

[00:13:47] Toliy: See I think that if they if they know what they're doing, I, I think that there could be some unethical behaviors there, yeah. Because like, if they know that like, "Hey, this is gonna influence you, and like this is what's gonna happen," just the sheer fact of doing that probably is like, unethical.

[00:14:02] But then again- Well for 

[00:14:02] Eldar: example, right, like you, you see how gambling right now is like a big thing. 

[00:14:06] Toliy: Yeah, a big thing. It's 

[00:14:07] Eldar: everywhere. Yeah. Everyone's being pushed this, you know, like young kid's gotta gamble, like this narrative, you know what I mean? Like- 

[00:14:13] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[00:14:14] Eldar: if you know that we're leading to this path where you're gonna, you know, obviously make a lot of money, but bunch of these kids are gonna get addicted to gambling and, and ruin their lives- 

[00:14:24] Toliy: Yeah

[00:14:24] Eldar: how can you have both, right? And be like, on moral sound ground there as a company owner, as a marketer- 

[00:14:32] Toliy: Just in- ... as 

[00:14:32] Eldar: an influencer ... 

[00:14:33] Toliy: general, like, like these sports leagues are like, they're kind of pushing, saying, "Hey, gambling is bad," right? 

[00:14:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:14:39] Toliy: Like kind of, "Don't do it." 

[00:14:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:14:41] Toliy: But then it's still available, and they're still being FanDuel and DraftKings are in bed with all of the sports, and they're all being marketed by ESPN and like- Mm-hmm

[00:14:49] everything is about, everything like FanDuel and DraftKings have sponsors with everybody. 

[00:14:54] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:54] Toliy: So they're also marketing it and promoting it. Why? Because they're paying enough, right? 

[00:14:58] So even though it's bad, they're still willing to do it because there there's people who are willing to put up the money that they're looking for- Yeah

[00:15:06] to do it. So they're not saying like, "Hey, we're not gonna be sponsored by gambling. Gambling is bad. It's addictive. It like, ruins this, it creates that." Mm-hmm. It, it creates like, insider information happening. Yeah, insider trading, yeah. It, it could, it could, think about this. Like, you run a, like a global sports league.

[00:15:23] If you just said there's no gambling period allowed on this, then there would be way less like op- like, opportunities for players to get involved in this kind of shit, and like med- meddle with it, like gang activity. 

[00:15:33] Eldar: Well, it might be completely like, yeah, you remove a lot of the- 

[00:15:36] Toliy: You, you, you remove a lot

[00:15:36] you 

[00:15:36] Eldar: might be removing a lot of fans, like yeah. 

[00:15:39] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:15:39] Eldar: One of the reasons why I like to watch UFC, and maybe sometimes NBA, is because I can put in a little bit of money and see if I can also win. 

[00:15:46] Toliy: Yeah. You got 

[00:15:46] Eldar: a horse in the race. 

[00:15:46] Toliy: And what does that happen? Well, yeah. Now you have your own involvement in something.

[00:15:50] Yeah. Now 

[00:15:50] Dave: you are hooked on 

[00:15:50] Toliy: something. 

[00:15:51] Dave: Yeah, and it's enjoyable. 

[00:15:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:15:53] Dave: How much more, how much more enjoyable is the game- Correct ... when you have some money on it? 

[00:15:57] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:15:57] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:15:58] Dave: Uh, it's just like- 

[00:15:59] Toliy: Yeah, now you're gonna talk about it more. You could benefit financially from it. You could lose. You can research it.

[00:16:03] Yeah, like- You can go on the whole journey ... 

[00:16:05] Dave: it's- So much more- Of course ... so much more enjoyable, and it's like, It gives you like a solid target. If you're just watching a game and you, you don't really have like a s- a team that you really wanna w- want to win- 

[00:16:16] Toliy: Mm-hmm ... it's just 

[00:16:17] Dave: like- It's 

[00:16:18] Toliy: whatever

[00:16:18] Dave: yeah, it's a whatever. When you have a solid target, it's like, "Oh I want the Eagles to win. Oh, the Eagles lost? Oh man, now I lost." 

[00:16:26] You know, there's there, there- There's that give and take relationship ... 

[00:16:27] Eldar: there's that give and take, but 

[00:16:28] Dave: there's also this like, I guess in a lesser level, like a identification, y- you know, like n- n- n- I have money on the line now, so now I feel like- 

[00:16:40] Yeah. 

[00:16:41] Mike: To which degree is it healthy and wh- to which degree is it 

[00:16:43] Eldar: not? 

[00:16:44] Mike: Do you guys think it's something that just hasn't been, uh, caught up yet? Like if they're gonna ban it? The, for example, like the gambling thing. Mm-hmm. Like the way they're trying to push that narrative. They're gonna get away with it for so long until it gets some kind of thing.

[00:16:57] Well, alcohol's 

[00:16:57] Eldar: not banned, Mike. We know 

[00:16:59] Mike: the effects of alcohol. Mm-hmm. And 

[00:17:00] Toliy: alcohol's- Yeah, no, I think it's the opposite. I think it's gonna just be, you know- More ... more and more entrenched because there's- Mm-hmm ... s- way too much money opportunities there, and things with that kind of money opportunities will never be 

[00:17:12] Mike: banned.

[00:17:12] Back in like the ni- in the '90s, they used to I don't know if it was '90s, but back in the day, they used to advertise cigarettes in all different sports. 

[00:17:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:17:20] Mike: That got banned you're not allowed to advertise cigarettes on sports. 

[00:17:26] Eldar: Oh. 

[00:17:26] Mike: You will not see any cigarette ads, like, I don't know specifically about Formula 

[00:17:29] Eldar: 1.

[00:17:30] It used to be in all the movies as well. 

[00:17:31] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:17:31] Eldar: Right? 

[00:17:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:17:32] Eldar: They're no longer allowed. 

[00:17:33] Mike: So that's why I thought of, like, are they... This is just because right now it's flying. 

[00:17:38] It's not on the, like, the radar of the effects of it. 

[00:17:40] You know? They used to promote cigarettes- Yeah ... as like a medicine, too.

[00:17:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:17:44] Mike: Back in the '50s or whatever, like,, "Hey, this is good for you. Helps with migraines, helps with stress," right? 

[00:17:48] Eldar: Yeah. Which it does. 

[00:17:49] Mike: Which it does, yeah. And then they started... I was in advertising, I remember, like, uh, in, in sports, and now it's gone. You don't see any cigarette ads- 

[00:17:57] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:17:58] Mike: because there was some kind of committee that decided, "Hey, this is actually not good for people."

[00:18:02] Yeah. You're influencing young minds who are watching sports. Yeah. They think it's cool. They don't understand, like- They get addicted to it ... and they, and they did what they do. There was the camel guy, right? The ca- cool guy and the camel. Smoking the cigarettes. 

[00:18:12] Eldar: Jeans. 

[00:18:12] Mike: In jeans- Yeah ... leather jacket. 

[00:18:14] Eldar: And the girl's like, "Oh."

[00:18:15] Mike: And the girl is all, all over him. 

[00:18:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:17] Mike: So eventually that got banned because they're like, "Yo, the minds who are watching this are not able to process this properly." 

[00:18:23] Eldar: That- that's right. 

[00:18:23] Mike: They're being influenced. So I think this is the same thing, like- Do 

[00:18:25] Eldar: you think that'll catch up? 

[00:18:27] Mike: That's my question.

[00:18:28] Is the social media go- Also because it's not just people who are ner- There's like, old, young people watch this, too. 

[00:18:34] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:18:35] Mike: And mostly young people watch this stuff, like even me and you were hanging out with Ella. 

[00:18:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:40] Mike: Your niece. 

[00:18:41] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:18:41] Mike: And she was watching this AI- Slop ... brainrot slop or whatever.

[00:18:45] Eldar: I was like, "What the fuck is going on here?" 

[00:18:46] Mike: But this is who's watching it. 

[00:18:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:48] Mike: And this is what... Their brains are getting fried. Completely. So, so I wonder, is it something that's gonna get... Eventually they're gonna catch on, like, "Yo guys, this is bad." Probably you're right. 

[00:18:56] Eldar: But we have to develop as a society, we have to develop- 

[00:18:58] Mike: Yeah.

[00:18:59] Yeah ... and become more educated. 

[00:19:00] Dave: So, so there's one word that actually sums up- Uh-huh ... what, what we're talking about right here. 

[00:19:04] Mike: Albert Einstein said it, right? 

[00:19:05] Dave: No, I don't know. Streaker. I, I don't know who said it, but it's coordination. Uh-huh. It's the coordination 

[00:19:09] Mike: of all the, the people. Mm-hmm.

[00:19:13] Dave: Right? H- how do you take off... H- how do you do the same thing they did with the cigarettes, right? That was a lot of coordination. Mm-hmm. They coordinated with everybody. They they talked to everybody and eventually- A lot 

[00:19:24] Mike: of government meetings, right? 

[00:19:26] Dave: Yeah, a lo- yeah. A lot of government meetings.

[00:19:28] There's a lot of coordination. 

[00:19:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:19:30] Dave: And there's a lot of meetings, a lot of things going on, and that's actually very difficult- 

[00:19:34] Eldar: Oh, it is difficult ... 

[00:19:34] Dave: to get every- To get a lot of people 

[00:19:35] Eldar: on the same page. 

[00:19:36] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:19:37] Mike: Yeah, like there's some companies are, or the whole, the whole business of lobbying is built on what?

[00:19:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:19:43] Mike: They wanna control- 

[00:19:44] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:19:44] Mike: fucking certain- Narratives ... aspects of go- government- Yeah ... so they can promote their products, d- break certain rules of, like, unethical practices. 

[00:19:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:19:52] Mike: You know, the conditions for animals. Yeah. 

[00:19:55] Eldar: The type of pesticides they use 

[00:19:56] Mike: on crops. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:19:57] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:58] Mike: What they use 

[00:19:58] Eldar: on, 

[00:19:58] Mike: yeah, all the chemicals- Yeah, American food, European food

[00:20:00] on food. Yeah ... this is all, and the thing is, it's all for sale. It's all for sale. It's a wild, 

[00:20:05] Toliy: wild 

[00:20:05] Mike: west. 

[00:20:06] Toliy: The thing that I, I feel like it's harder and harder now for a lot of these things to, like, move because there is so much, like, a, like, interconnection almost between, like, politics and, like, money and, like- I guess power. 

[00:20:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:19] Toliy: Right? Influence. And, like, influence, right? Yeah. At the end of the day, all the all of these different things are on every single topic. It's like a race of who can influence who faster, 

[00:20:29] Eldar: right? Like- Yeah, in order to get that power. 

[00:20:31] Toliy: Yeah, like Donald Trump to me won this election through, like, X, for example, and the young- 

[00:20:37] Eldar: Mm-hmm

[00:20:37] Toliy: generation and just, like, mass influence that he had and, like, his, like, team had, I guess, through, like, all the different people. And if you have, extremely, like, wealthy, for example, like, powerful people like E- Elon Musk with unlimited pockets- 

[00:20:51] ... 

[00:20:51] Toliy: Right? And they're agreeing to, like, help push this influence.

[00:20:57] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:57] Toliy: Well then, like, yeah, it's hard to, like... It's almost like whoever has, like, the money and the power in that kind of sense they're, like, they're gonna speak the loudest, and they're gonna be able to speak louder- Yeah ... than the people that, you know, don't, don't have this. Yeah. So 

[00:21:11] Eldar: if you 

[00:21:12] Toliy: can get- Yeah, they, they went 

[00:21:12] Eldar: into the right channels.

[00:21:13] Toliy: Yeah, if you can get the right celebrities or the right influencers or the right people that people, again- Look up to ... put their trust in and put their, like, you know, their, their brain listens to, to these people. 

[00:21:24] Dave: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:24] Toliy: Right? Whether it's like, again, an influencer or, you know, social media star, like athlete, whoever it is, business per- Mm-hmm

[00:21:31] person. If you value these people's opinions, again, people who don't have it were like, "Okay, like, I like this guy for A- AI, and I'm just gonna listen to him for AI and, like, listen to what he says about that." But most people, like, they talk about one thing, and then they get big, and now they're talking about all different kinds of things.

[00:21:49] And before you know it- Yeah ... the athlete who you, who you liked as a basketball player, well, now you also agree with their political stance. Now you also agree on their stance on, I guess, being like, you know, eating meat or being vegetarian, for example. So 

[00:22:00] Eldar: w- what, what do we call these people? Who? Like, w- all the people that gets influenced.

[00:22:04] Toliy: NPCs. Well, they're... Yeah, well, no, they're- 

[00:22:06] Eldar: NPCs. 

[00:22:07] Toliy: They're, they're just not at a strong enough level of thinker yet to be able to- Discern ... to be able... Well, no, not even to- Dis- ... discern, to, to think for themselves and be able to the they're, they're not influ- they have to be influencers. You, to, for you to not be affected at this, you, you need to be your own influencer, but you are not.

[00:22:25] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:25] Toliy: You, you are still, like, a, um- Pimp ... seeker of, like, you're trying to figure out what's going on. 

[00:22:30] And I think most people just stay in that state where they're just trying to figure out what's going on, and they never get put into the position of being the one that influences what's going on, which is why there, there's this, like, a lot of these people revere People with money or power or with s- you know, some kind of social status- 

[00:22:50] Eldar: Mm-hmm

[00:22:51] Toliy: because they don't have anywhere near it like that. 

[00:22:54] Eldar: But wouldn't you say this is a crazy crime that you commit against yourself when you started esteeming someone else? 

[00:22:59] Toliy: Well, it could be. Like you- Hm ... could be looking at it as a crime, but, but the people- That is really, yeah, 

[00:23:02] Dave: that's something. 

[00:23:03] Toliy: Yeah, like you could be looking at it- Wow

[00:23:05] as like, yes, this is a crazy crime against yourself. Yeah. But it's only a crime- Esteem yourself ... one, if you know it's happening, and two, if you call it that. 

[00:23:12] Dave: So there's two things to this, right? I think that it's really interesting, Toliy. This guy, man, me, me and him, man. Mano a mano. Mano a mano. We gotta do- Yeah, yes

[00:23:20] here, I swear. 

[00:23:20] Toliy: Yeah. We could start a podcast, right? 

[00:23:22] Dave: We, we, we could start a pod- Mano 

[00:23:25] Toliy: a mano. We could start a podcast. Yes. 

[00:23:25] Dave: Oh, man, that'd be a great one. And I think that's the interesting piece, the idea of instead of esteeming yourself, you esteem another. 

[00:23:35] Eldar: Somebody else 

[00:23:36] Dave: outside of you. Somebody else. I thought that was such an interesting point.

[00:23:38] Toliy: And- 

[00:23:39] Dave: And then the aware- 

[00:23:40] Toliy: That's a sin, 

[00:23:40] Dave: right? Yeah, but first 

[00:23:41] Toliy: of- That, that's like a religious sin. 

[00:23:43] Dave: Yeah, but then, and then the awareness that you are s- esteeming someone else. 

[00:23:48] So it's even further 

[00:23:49] Eldar: back. Yeah, 

[00:23:50] Dave: yeah. So it's like, first there's the aware... Like, I'm esteeming someone else and I don't even know it.

[00:23:56] Eldar: Yeah. You're completely blind. 

[00:23:58] Dave: You're completely blind that you, you don't even know- Yeah ... that you're doing it. 

[00:24:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:24:01] Dave: And then there's the awareness that, oh, I should be esteeming myself. 

[00:24:06] And then there's the study of how do I self-esteem? Mm-hmm. How do I build self-esteem? 

[00:24:10] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:24:12] Toliy: Yeah, I mean, like, look, but it's, I, 

[00:24:14] Dave: I, 

[00:24:14] Toliy: I'm pretty sure it's, like, one of the Ten Commandments or something, right?

[00:24:17] Like, for example, like, in, like, the Jewish religion, right? Or, like, you know, I'm- Don't idolize ... I'm sure it's in... Yeah, don't i- idolize, right? I'm sure that, like, whoever thought that out, for example- I 

[00:24:26] Eldar: think in, uh- Right ... in G- in, uh, Islam as well, they don't even have any statues, pictures of Muhammad. Mm. 

[00:24:32] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:24:33] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? You know who also said the same thing? Anastasia said the same thing as well- Mm Yeah, I remember ... about don't idolize. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things where it's 

[00:24:39] Toliy: like- Because if you, yeah, if you idolize, for 

[00:24:41] Eldar: example- You commit the crime against yourself ... 

[00:24:42] Toliy: yeah. If you idolize people, you, one, strip your own power, and two, like, you almost sign a contract saying, "Hey, I'm no longer gonna think.

[00:24:49] I'm gonna put my thinking- 

[00:24:50] Eldar: Mm ... 

[00:24:50] Toliy: and my life, like- Yep ... in your hands." 

[00:24:52] Eldar: Well, how about this? How about this? Yes, 

[00:24:54] Toliy: I- And they said that the only person that you could do that is- ... god, for example. 

[00:24:56] Eldar: Well, well, there you go. Right? I'm glad that you used the word God, because I'm gonna tell you- Yeah ... I'm gonna tell you what you're doing when you're actually esteeming others on that level.

[00:25:03] You're actually disrespecting God at the highest level. 

[00:25:06] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:25:07] Eldar: Why? Because God created you, let's just say. 

[00:25:10] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:25:10] Eldar: And here you are saying like, "Hey, God, like, I don't really like myself. I don't like the way I was created." 

[00:25:16] "

[00:25:16] Eldar: So I'm just gonna go and look up to someone else." 

[00:25:18] Dave: Unbelievable. 

[00:25:20] Eldar: Yeah. Right?

[00:25:20] Dave: Unbelievable. 

[00:25:21] Eldar: Yeah. But- Instead, instead of looking within, s- building self-esteem- 

[00:25:26] Dave: Yeah ... 

[00:25:26] Eldar: right? Learning how to go into yourself and figuring out everything that you need to figure out in order to then esteem yourself- 

[00:25:34] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[00:25:34] Eldar: and esteem your own mind and the things that you've cultivated. 

[00:25:38] Toliy: Yeah, I think that- 

[00:25:38] Eldar: And then praise God for allowing such a phenomena to happen in the first place.

[00:25:42] Toliy: Yeah, I think, like, the, the- I agree 100% ... difficulties that most people that are, in general, like, the progression of mankind is not, like, you're very rarely operating from, like, a, um, surplus of, like, energy, time, and, like, kno- knowledge and not, like, previous bad, like, like, um, baggage. 

[00:26:01] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:01] Toliy: Right?

[00:26:02] Like, when we're developing and we're realizing that, like, hey, like, this is messed up, this is messed up, or, like, we got this wrong, we got that wrong, you're operating more from, like, a deficit because, like, you were, you grew up and, like, naturally- you get influenced right away as soon as you're born, right?

[00:26:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:18] Toliy: For a long period of, of your early life, everything gets chosen for you, right? Like, what you wear, where you go, when you eat, what you eat, what you watch, what you don't watch. 

[00:26:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:28] Toliy: And then you get, like, a little bit older, and still you have to get, like, permission for things, right? Like, y- your parents allow you to watch this cartoon or that cartoon or that show or don't.

[00:26:38] W- whatever they're putting you in is what you're going to get influenced by. Yeah. And then as, like, a child, you're just, like, the, uh, ever, like, observer of things, right? 

[00:26:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:46] Toliy: So you just observe everything that's going on. You internalize that, and that also influences you. So once you get older and there's more larger decisions to be made, you already have, like, a whole life of influence that you've already, like- Carrying 

[00:27:00] Eldar: into 

[00:27:01] Toliy: it

[00:27:01] yeah, like, like carrying into it. Yeah. Um, so changing all that and doing all that, that is obviously what, I mean, we're all trying to do here, but that als- that, that proves to be extremely difficult. 

[00:27:13] Eldar: Are most people fucked, like you always say, or what? I, 

[00:27:15] Dave: I love that. Oh, yeah. For sure. I love his conversation 

[00:27:17] Eldar: with the God.

[00:27:18] Dave: I just love that. I was like, "Oh, my God." Well, think about it, right? How did we, how did we get to the conversation about God? Yeah. It's like, wow. 

[00:27:23] Eldar: It's all, it's all tied in into- Yeah ... the fact that we- 

[00:27:26] Dave: Unbelievable ... yeah. It's unbelievable- Yeah ... really. Yeah. It 

[00:27:29] Eldar: is. 

[00:27:29] Dave: It's all- 

[00:27:30] Eldar: Do, do you think we're actually disrespecting God- 

[00:27:31] Dave: I s-

[00:27:32] Eldar: by doing this? 

[00:27:32] Dave: Dude, I mean, logically, yes. 

[00:27:36] Eldar: And that's why we don't have the self-esteem. We don't, we don't have the confidence in ourselves because- Yeah ... we're constantly looking outwardly. We're looking up, like you said. We're looking up to people who n- have some money, have some power, so have some kind of influence, but we don't have any kind of agency of ours, of our own.

[00:27:53] Dave: Yeah. Well, it's always the case where it's internal affects the external. Mm-hmm. It's always the case. People just forget. 

[00:28:01] Eldar: Why do you think that is? Are we really that bad of sinners? 

[00:28:03] Dave: I think that we just forget, man. I think that it's just like- But 

[00:28:07] Eldar: why? But why do we have this condition? 

[00:28:08] Dave: We need a constant reminder.

[00:28:10] We need a constant reminder about our- 

[00:28:12] Eldar: Yeah ... godhood. I'm talking about amnesia.

[00:28:13] Toliy: I don't even know if we need a reminder because I don't think that people even know to begin with. Yeah. Because when they're first, like- 

[00:28:18] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:28:19] Toliy: right? When they're first like, uh, like when they get maybe little glimpses, they're almost like, "The fuck is this?"

[00:28:24] You know? Like- 

[00:28:25] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:28:26] Toliy: the... They're not, like, discovering something and then running as fast as possible to it, right? 

[00:28:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:31] Toliy: Um- 

[00:28:32] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:28:32] Toliy: right? Like, what, like, what, what's the, uh, the, uh, the allegory of the cave, right? Yeah. The guy's trying to tell you, like, "Yo, there, there's light out there." You know? Mm-hmm.

[00:28:41] Like, "Look." The guy's like, "Yo, 

[00:28:42] Eldar: leave 

[00:28:43] Toliy: me alone." "

[00:28:43] Eldar: Leave me 

[00:28:43] Toliy: alone." "Why?"

[00:28:47] Hmm. There's a light out there. What do you mean? Oh, you found light? Let's go take a look at it. Why is that not the attitude? Yeah. Let's go examine it first- 

[00:28:55] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:28:56] Toliy: be- before we say whether we want it or not. So- Right away, no, fuck that shit. Yeah. And that, that's also how, so how this society is. Again, do we, again, we go to the conclusion that 

[00:29:05] Eldar: we're exactly where we're supposed to be 

[00:29:07] Toliy: then.

[00:29:07] Yeah. Think about ju- just like sports, for example, just like in America as a whole, the avid fan, they're like they're like, you know, 9:00 to 5:00 is to go work. They come home, and then they're entrenched in sports. Entrenched. And that's their life. 

[00:29:22] Eldar: That's their life, yeah. 

[00:29:23] Toliy: They're, they're, they're part of the team.

[00:29:25] We lost, you won. 

[00:29:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:27] Toliy: We won- 

[00:29:28] Eldar: What an identity ... you 

[00:29:28] Toliy: lost. Who are you with? Identity again. 

[00:29:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:31] Toliy: Yeah, exactly. Right? Uh, right? It's a conversation starter in social settings. It's a lifestyle. Um- You 

[00:29:38] Eldar: know, it's funny you say that- It's an apparel thing ... because a conversation started. We were in Tesla- Mm-hmm ... me, Mike, and Tom, and we were sitting down, and one guy was sitting there also, waiting for his car or whatever.

[00:29:47] We were waiting for service, and he had a Nick, Knicks hat. And we started chatting or whatever. Mike made some comment or whatever about the Knicks, you know, that there was a game coming up, game one, and he started, like, opening up right away. And the one thing that I was thinking about the whole time that we were speaking and connecting or whatever- Mm-hmm

[00:30:05] it's, it was such a surface level connection- 

[00:30:08] Mike: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:30:08] Eldar: that we never connected with our eyes. We never looked each other in the eyes because, like, he kept kinda, like, looking down. He was really into the conversation, but he kept looking down, and, like, his excitement, everything was just directed at the floor, not at me.

[00:30:22] Hmm. And, like, I was trying to catch, like, you know, like a normal, uh- Mm-hmm ... human eye, eye-to-eye connection. And yeah, it's just a fucking, like, this weird, like, who is this person? And obviously he identified with the Knicks. He said all the right stuff about what's going on. He knows his thing, yeah. He knows his shit.

[00:30:39] Yeah. We connected a little bit on that. Yeah. But there was no actual connection. He's just fucking some fan. I'm just some fucking Tesla guy, and that's it. 

[00:30:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:30:50] Eldar: And that's where it ends 

[00:30:51] There was no a- like, who is this person? Is he real? That's how I felt. I was like- Yeah, that's funny

[00:30:57] he couldn't even look me in the eyes. 

[00:30:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:30:59] Eldar: And like, we're not threatening. We were ha- talking- 

[00:31:01] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:31:02] Eldar: talking shit about the Knicks- Yeah ... and how we cheering for the Knicks as well- Yeah, yeah ... just like he is. 

[00:31:06] Mike: Yeah. But 

[00:31:06] Eldar: it was just like Did you feel the same way? It was so dead. 

[00:31:10] Mike: Uh, no, I mean, it just like, uh, I didn't feel like what you're saying, but I felt like the conversation was, like, just about the Knicks.

[00:31:16] Yeah. But he, he was very excited about it. 

[00:31:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:19] Mike: Like, he was extremely like, you know, passionate or whatever- Yeah ... about it. Like, that 

[00:31:23] Eldar: was- 

[00:31:23] Mike: But 

[00:31:23] Eldar: there was no... Yeah, he didn't connect. Yeah. Like, I don't know. He just talked about the Knicks. 

[00:31:27] Mike: Yeah. Also, you were sitting next to him, so I was definitely like, uh, having some- Uh-huh.

[00:31:32] Eldar: You did have some eye contact? 

[00:31:33] Mike: Yeah, but not a lot. Like, uh- Okay, yeah ... now that you think about it, now that you mention it, yeah, it was, it wasn't really like... It was, like, weird, I guess. 

[00:31:38] Eldar: It was weird, bro. 

[00:31:39] Mike: Yeah 

[00:31:42] Eldar: Yeah, it was weird 

[00:31:44] Mike: Yeah 

[00:31:45] Eldar: More than anything,

[00:31:46] Mike: but that's like, uh, that's what is important to him, 

[00:31:48] Eldar: no, but I'm saying that like that's, that's what he said is the people are entrenched, right? Yeah. The, the, you know, like completely entrenched. 9:00 to 5:00, you know, that's it. After that you go home and you just watch your sports because that's an outlet, right? Yeah. The sports' job is to entertain us and to calm the fuck- Mm

[00:32:03] calm us the fuck down because we're so stressed. Yeah. So at least we identify with this team, that team, like you said, we start saying like, "They are, we are," like we're part of some shit. 

[00:32:13] You know what I mean? Like what's, look what's gonna happen in New York City, we're already seeing it. Look what- It's crazy, yeah

[00:32:16] what's going on, right? 

[00:32:17] Dave: This is, this is a good conversation. It's a really interesting conversation too. From the perspective of being entrenched and identifying with sports and everything there was also this idea of people doing that during, um, like that stock market time. 

[00:32:35] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:35] Dave: There was a, there was one time where people, their stocks went down, they'd commit suicide.

[00:32:39] Yeah, yeah. They'd jump out the window and everything. And like it was crazy because there's so much identity in that. 

[00:32:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:32:46] Dave: And, and so it, it, this conversation really is about God, uh, which is, which is what's crazy- ... 'cause I can't believe how this- Yeah ... how it got this way. But yeah, it's like, who are you?

[00:32:57] You're a child of God. It's like, "Well, what does that mean?" Right? And it's just like- Yeah ... do you exec- excavate your like inner self? Do you dig into it? Do you meditate? 

[00:33:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:33:11] Dave: D- d- like, do you do these things? And un- unless you are doing that and you're not just entrenching your life in like sports or something, then you won't have this fabulous inner world, and you won't have these conversations with God, and you, you won't- Yeah

[00:33:27] Feel that way. 

[00:33:28] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. No, uh, absolutely, and you never have that genuine connection with something that's greater just than some sports or some athlete. Yeah. You know what I mean? Who tells you how to think. 

[00:33:38] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:33:38] Eldar: You know, and influencing you, which is a crazy phenomenon. 

[00:33:42] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:33:42] Eldar: You know, and I also think, like I said, it's the biggest disrespect to God.

[00:33:47] Dave: It's unbelievable you th- think about it that way. In general, do you think that AI will make us more spiritual? 

[00:33:54] Eldar: So that's a very good question. I totally actually had a crazy take. We had this conversation like three or four weeks ago I believe three or four weeks ago. But the conclusion was, correct me if I'm wrong, that AI is almost forcing us to self-develop Self-development For self-development.

[00:34:14] Why? Because it's acting as a, quote-unquote, "God" who's all-knowing, right? And we're esteeming them and propping them up so high- 

[00:34:22] ... 

[00:34:22] Eldar: That it's gonna start telling us what to do and how to do it, right? 

[00:34:27] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:34:28] Eldar: It's- Uh, because we're not listening to anything else, right? We're not listening to, let's just say, the Bible, the other stories.

[00:34:33] Shit doesn't make sense. There's a lot of problems. There's, uh, conflicting, uh, ideologies, different religions and all this stuff. So AI is almost like, Toliy says, like, God is almost, like, playing this prank or this joke. Like, "All right, cool. Here's AI now. I'm gonna give you AI in order for you to finally shape up, because AI is now gonna tell you how to fucking think properly, and you're not gonna be able to jump over it."

[00:34:54] Because we already are programmed to esteem that AI is all-knowing. Wow. Which is a crazy phenomenon, bro. 

[00:35:01] Dave: Wow. Yeah. That's interesting- But 

[00:35:03] Eldar: then again, 

[00:35:03] Dave: is it? ... that you came 

[00:35:04] Eldar: to that 

[00:35:04] Dave: conclusion. That's- 

[00:35:05] Eldar: But is it? And if it's not, if it's not, if AI is really not close to God or doesn't really know what's actually going on, and you, if you don't develop into this self-developed person, then it's completely over for humanity.

[00:35:19] Dave: Well, I think in general this needs to happen because of game theory as well. 

[00:35:24] Specifically because there are things in the human experience that are zero- zero sum. Zero sum. The idea is, like, game theory says everyone win, loses. It's kind of like sports that we're talking about. Okay. Very simple. It's like, I lost. So whatever, right? Somebody else won. So I team lost. Someone has more, someone wins, someone loses.

[00:35:47] But the reality of life is that's not true. 

[00:35:49] And game theory is not true. 

[00:35:52] Because me having a good night's sleep doesn't affect you having a good night's sleep. This isn't a win, lose situation. 

[00:35:59] You can have a good night's sleep. I can go home, I can have a good night's sleep. Mm. We both sleep 

[00:36:03] Toliy: well.

[00:36:03] But what- what's the game theory like? What's 

[00:36:04] Dave: like- The, the, the game theory is that everything has a a value, and everything can be gained. It's very, very mathematical. 

[00:36:12] And there's some things that are not mathematical, and you can't just use cold calculus and cold logic to understand it. 

[00:36:20] Friendships, love, empathy, anything that has to do with self-actualization on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. 

[00:36:28] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:36:29] Dave: And one of the hierarchy of needs, self-actualization thing, is self-esteem. 

[00:36:35] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:35] Dave: We're talking about self-esteem. So this whole idea of esteeming, that's all a fifth level of Maslow's five hierarchy of needs.

[00:36:45] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:45] Dave: So from that point of view, what I'm saying to you is, 

[00:36:52] Toliy: like- 

[00:36:55] Dave: We have to really focus on the things that make us human, the things that are naturally human, the things that are, like, like I said before, that's being more spiritual, having more empathy, having more love, looking at things through a lens of what it means to be human.

[00:37:15] Toliy: But what, what does it mean to be human? 

[00:37:17] Dave: It, it, it's like what we're talking about is- Mm-hmm ... we can have conversations with God, right? We can have all these different things. This is a very human thing. AI doesn't do this, right? Mm-hmm. This is like, this is... What, what else do we do? We have friendships and, and, and there's also this idea of just, like, looking at everything through a very numerical point of view.

[00:37:41] A- and so it's very, very objective and very, very mathematical. 

[00:37:44] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:44] Dave: And that's kinda what AI is doing. It's all just very, very mathematical equations that are, like, just- Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:51] Toliy: Well, no, but- ... 

[00:37:52] Dave: talking. Well- You, you get what I'm saying? 

[00:37:53] Toliy: Yes and no. Um, so, I do think still that friendships and empathy and, like, lo- I do think that there's still a lot of ma- mathemat- like, it's all explainable.

[00:38:03] Dave: Mm-hmm. 

[00:38:03] Toliy: And it's something that is, like, a repeatable, I think you know, mo- most of it to me is a repeatable mathematical equation. But 

[00:38:11] Dave: it, but it's, it's a zero-sum game is what I'm saying. You, you know, it's not like a win and lose. It's not like you get good sleep I get bad sleep. We both can have good sleep, right?

[00:38:22] Uh, it's not like I'm gonna lower your self-esteem and I'm gonna increase mine. 

[00:38:26] Eldar: Okay, so what you're saying is that the things that, let's just say, makes us truly human, they're outside of that spectrum. 

[00:38:32] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:38:32] Eldar: Is that what you s- Yeah ... that's what you're saying? That you- Like, 

[00:38:34] Dave: well, we can both be 

[00:38:35] Eldar: esteemed- But you're all benefiting

[00:38:35] and 

[00:38:36] Dave: I don't lose. 

[00:38:36] Eldar: Yeah, okay. 

[00:38:37] Toliy: No, but I s- no, but there's still, like- 

[00:38:38] Dave: The psych- ... all of 

[00:38:39] Toliy: these things are still, like, winning and losing and power and all of these different things. They're still man-made creations, right? So to me, they're, they, they are still part of being human and being, like, part of being human is to misunderstand, for example, 

[00:38:52] Dave: right?

[00:38:53] Yeah. 

[00:38:53] Toliy: Like, you have the ability to misinterpret. 

[00:38:55] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:38:56] Toliy: You have the ability to misunderstand where- Yeah, it's part of making 

[00:38:58] Dave: mistakes, too. Yeah. Oh, yeah ... 

[00:38:59] Toliy: over time a properly trained A- AI, for example, doesn't have that. It the, like, a computer is not gonna... If you put two plus two into your, your calculator- Yeah, 

[00:39:09] Dave: it's always gonna be the same 

[00:39:10] Toliy: result

[00:39:10] it's not gonna ever equal five or three, right? Yeah, it's 

[00:39:12] Dave: always gonna be the same, 

[00:39:12] Toliy: so- No matter what ... 

[00:39:13] Dave: yeah. 

[00:39:13] Toliy: It's just not, right? '

[00:39:14] Dave: Cause it's mathematical. 

[00:39:15] Toliy: It's mathematical. 

[00:39:16] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:39:16] Toliy: So,

[00:39:17] if you have, for example, a well, e- eventually with time, for example if you have a well set up AI, you can, if and that's your seeker of advice, r- you could do that right now.

[00:39:28] You could say like, if you have the premium model because it has memory- 

[00:39:33] ... 

[00:39:33] Toliy: Right now, like, like the, the- Yeah ... the new models have a memory. 

[00:39:35] Dave: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:36] Toliy: You could say, um, "Hey, g- going forward," like first off you could have it as a skill download the whole Bible. 

[00:39:43] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:43] Toliy: Read the whole Bible. Yeah. Right?

[00:39:45] Mm-hmm. And then two, you could say, "Hey, going forward- 

[00:39:47] Eldar: We work off 

[00:39:47] Toliy: that ... all, all of, no, all of the answers you give me, I want you to give it to me from a biblical worldview." 

[00:39:52] And now anything you ask will take into um- 

[00:39:55] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:39:55] Toliy: account- That's the resource ... the Bible, for example, or the Quran. Yeah. Or- 

[00:40:00] Whatever you tell it to. 

[00:40:01] Dave: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:40:01] Toliy: Right? 

[00:40:02] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:40:02] Toliy: You could say they have that for, like, like, a famous, like, sales authors or books. You could say, like, "Hey, a- as you help me build out this content or that, it must be in this person's either, like, voice, or it could be, like, based on his theory of how- 

[00:40:15] Dave: Yeah

[00:40:15] Toliy: this, this works." He sees the world. Right? For- Yeah ... for example. 

[00:40:17] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:40:17] Toliy: And you could just get that if you want that. So what's the- If you want a- What's 

[00:40:21] Dave: your point? Yeah, what's the point? Yeah. 

[00:40:22] Toliy: Um, I'm trying to remember what was the point I was trying to drive, but- I was just trying to say that looking at everything- Oh, no, I, I was trying to say that- Yeah

[00:40:29] That I still do think that it is mathematical. Like, the, uh- Yeah, I 

[00:40:33] Dave: thi- yeah, I think that the- 

[00:40:33] Toliy: Maybe it's harder to track. 

[00:40:35] Dave: Yeah, it's, it's harder but it's also, like, the m- like, if you look at, there was one guy that made the theory, game theory. It, it was like the, um, his, like, 1940s or something, he was part of the team to, um, you know, make the nuclear bomb and part of the Manhattan Project.

[00:40:51] Mm. He was, like, a really, really genius mathematical guy. 

[00:40:54] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:54] Dave: But he run his whole entire life through that, and it's not how it works. 

[00:40:58] It's, it's not all math. There's also just the heart, and there's just, like, you know, again, there's just, like, this idea of friendships and, like, and- But, but, 

[00:41:09] Eldar: but that's all-

[00:41:09] Dave: and hobbies But you don't, are you know what- And then hobbies. Hobbies- Let me- ... is a great example. Like- Mm. 

[00:41:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:41:12] Dave: Yeah. I, I- 

[00:41:13] Eldar: Let me tell you what, what comes to my mind when he says this. 

[00:41:15] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:41:16] Eldar: You see this online right now, like, everybody's trying to optimize their health. 

[00:41:20] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:41:20] Eldar: Everyone, right? It's like, how do you live fucking longer?

[00:41:23] You do all these metrics. You keep journals. You fucking take your vitals every day- Yeah ... and all this other shit. It's like that. It's like, it's like you're trying to fucking quantify everything, like this guy tried to do, right? Into, like, a mathematical equation- Yeah ... and trying to live by that. 

[00:41:38] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:41:39] Eldar: But then there's gonna be an anomaly that doesn't fit into that- 

[00:41:43] Dave: Yeah

[00:41:44] Eldar: at the end of the day, and something might happen. You might catch a heart attack. You know what I mean? 

[00:41:47] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:41:47] Eldar: And all this shit goes out the window you know? Or whatever. Yeah. You know? So it's- That's the idea ... 

[00:41:51] Toliy: it 

[00:41:51] Eldar: doesn't that doesn't work like that. That you can't just, like, say, "Okay, cool," like, "this is the equation.

[00:41:55] Let's just follow it, and then we're gonna get this result every single time." 

[00:41:57] Toliy: Well, n- yeah, like, in that way I agree with you, but I still but, like where I'm disagreeing is that I still don't think that, like, those things from the heart- Mm-hmm ... those things that you feel- 

[00:42:06] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:42:06] Toliy: your friendships, I do think that they are mathematical There, there is- Can you, can you 

[00:42:11] Mike: explain how?

[00:42:11] Toliy: Well- Yeah ... there's a, there, there's a very lo- logical reason as to why you feel how you feel, why you like, you if there's a friendship with someone that you like, it's not like it doesn't make sense why you like it, right? Like, if I really had you th- sit there and think and give me re- reasons, you would be able to put together equation, okay, like, I like to me a good friendship is like, okay, this person, like, respects me, right?

[00:42:36] They like mulch. And they're this. They yeah, like the- I 

[00:42:38] Eldar: like mulch, do you 

[00:42:39] Toliy: like 

[00:42:39] Eldar: mulch? 

[00:42:40] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, like- ... you know, like you- Well, they have 

[00:42:41] Eldar: values. Yeah 

[00:42:42] Toliy: You have ve- certain particular values ... you would, you would have actual r- reasons, and that would be, like, your little, your, like, little equation. Package.

[00:42:48] You wouldn't be able to say, like, "Hey, like, I have a I like friendship and I, but I don't know why." Like- Mm-hmm

[00:42:54] if you don't know why, I think that, like, you're more operating on, like, a blind- 

[00:42:57] Dave: Yeah ... 

[00:42:58] Toliy: like, 

[00:42:58] Eldar: without- But, but I think most people probably operate that way, Toliy. They could. I'm not sure a lot of people can actually quantify why they like the way they like- That's actually such a 

[00:43:06] Mike: good point

[00:43:07] but, but is, is that n- You know? ... is that dependent on that, that you, the numbers you punch into the calculator are the actual numbers that- that actually are, like you're punching into this equation, what if you're under the wrong impression about the equation? Yeah, you might be wearing beer goggles, right?

[00:43:19] Toliy: Like you could- Well, well, y- y- yeah, but I, I'm saying this in the sense that oftentimes when pe- people, like, they talk about, hey, like, the heart or, like, feelings or like- Mm-hmm ... like, like, d- spiritual things, like that kind of stuff- 

[00:43:32] Dave: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:43:32] Toliy: they almost speak about it in like a way where like, "Hey, this stuff is unexplainable stuff, but it's good."

[00:43:37] Where I'm c- I'm saying where, like, this is all explainable b- b- because like- And it could be 

[00:43:41] Eldar: good ... 

[00:43:41] Toliy: the, the- Mm-hmm ... certainty with, like, math is that math is, like, very explainable, and it's repeatable- Mm-hmm ... and it's like it's logical, and there's no, like, sometimes two plus two is this, sometimes it's that.

[00:43:53] Like it's the same thing every time, and it's a logical equation. Where oftentimes I feel like when people speak about, like, things from the heart- 

[00:44:00] Dave: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:44:00] Toliy: friendship, all that kind of stuff- Yeah ... spiritual stuff- I think, yeah, good point ... they're like, "This, this is an unexplainable-" 

[00:44:05] Mike: Realm ... 

[00:44:06] Toliy: realm."

[00:44:06] And they just say like, "Hell, yeah, like you just can't explain it, or you can't, like, understand it." Where, 

[00:44:10] Mike: where I'm saying that- I agree with that. I, I definitely don't think it's unexplainable. Yeah. But I don't, I'm not sure, like I don't get it. I don't get how it's mathematical. 

[00:44:17] Eldar: No, 

[00:44:17] Mike: it's logical, Mike.

[00:44:18] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:44:18] Toliy: it's 

[00:44:18] Eldar: logical. 

[00:44:19] Mike: Yeah. If it's mathematical, 

[00:44:19] Eldar: it's- I'm, I'm not sure 

[00:44:20] Mike: if math is... and ma- is math and logic the same thing? I 

[00:44:22] Dave: don't 

[00:44:22] Eldar: think it's the same thing. Yeah. Uh, it's not the same thing, but it's like they, there's equations to it, right? If this, then that, right? Yeah. Like if this, then that. Yeah. And in math you can see a lot of those types of 

[00:44:28] Dave: equations.

[00:44:28] And I think also a really, really good example of this, if you wanna look at 

[00:44:32] Eldar: it from- Like if, if X is three plus B, whatever- Yeah ... this is 14. Mm-hmm. So what is B? You know what I mean? Yeah. There's logic for B. Solve, yeah, yeah. Yeah, solve for, for B, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Then you could structure your sentences in such a way where you- If the logic is correct, but the problem is the human element- Yes

[00:44:46] right? I think that the main point here is, is the critical thinking. 

[00:44:48] Toliy: But the interpretation 100% I agree with you. Yeah, the logic is logic. You're talking critical thinking. The interpretation is different. Yes. Like the, like the logic, the cur- like the numbers- 

[00:44:54] Mike: Yeah, but when where that's the pro- that's what I'm saying, that you're talking about, like, a mathematics, but if a person doesn't know how to do mathematics, and let's just say generally speaking, people don't know how to do mathematics- 

[00:45:04] Toliy: Yeah

[00:45:05] Mike: it doesn't matter if it's logical or illogical, like, in the real world case, right? 

[00:45:09] Toliy: Well, no, it does mat- matter though. Okay. Like, it, it could still be logical or not logical because- Well, you're gonna run into 

[00:45:14] Mike: problems. 

[00:45:15] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like it, and which is logical. 

[00:45:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:18] Toliy: Sure. If you have things wrong- 

[00:45:19] Mike: If you're prereq- like what is it?

[00:45:20] Prerequisites they call it? Yeah, yeah. Pre something. 

[00:45:23] Eldar: Yeah, prerequisites. 

[00:45:24] Mike: Prerequisites are incorrect- 

[00:45:26] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:45:26] Mike: then the equation's not gonna work 

[00:45:28] Dave: Yeah, 

[00:45:28] Toliy: 100%, but then it won't work, right? Yeah. Now, if you tell me that, like, "Hey, some it will actually work even though you got it all wrong," then I w- then I wouldn't be able to say that like, "Hey, like, lo- there's, like, this logical ma- makeup to, to it."

[00:45:40] Mm-hmm. So if you have it wrong- Mm-hmm ... the logical- You're supposed to get it wrong ... the, the outcomes will be wrong. Yeah, absolutely. Or if you have it right, it will be right. 

[00:45:47] Eldar: Yeah. And now that, that points to what? The fact that a lot of times we as humans don't have the right ability to structure sentences in such a way for them to make sense.

[00:45:54] Mm-hmm. That's why we have beef all the time. Yeah. That's why we have static. 

[00:45:58] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:58] Eldar: You know what I mean? Where we're trying to be logical and other people m- may not be logical or more- Yeah ... emotional. 

[00:46:02] Toliy: Of 

[00:46:03] Eldar: course. And then the equations don't fit- ... and we have issues. 

[00:46:05] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:46:06] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:46:06] Toliy: like, like- Today, for example, like, Jared lost his wallet and he was very, like, upset about it, right?

[00:46:13] Mm-hmm. He was feeling emotions from that. Now h- like the whole sit- sit- situation obviously, like, he set up his life and his ways of thinking in particular ways to lead him there. 

[00:46:24] Dave: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:25] Toliy: But the whole, f- everything that plays out is extremely logical and makes perfect sense in the sense of, like, how much he, for example, values it or, like, how, like, like he continues to misplace it in places and, like, not put it in the car, for example, like we were saying, and his anger and the way he has.

[00:46:43] It's an extremely logical response based on, like, how he set up his life- Mm-hmm ... and how- 

[00:46:47] Eldar: No, of course ... 

[00:46:48] Toliy: like how, how it transpired. It makes perfect sense. Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:50] Eldar: Even though to us it was like, "What the fuck is going on here?" No, yeah. Why, why the reaction? 

[00:46:54] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:46:55] Eldar: Mm-hmm. It didn't make any logical sense. Yeah.

[00:46:57] Yes. It 

[00:46:57] Toliy: was too much. 

[00:46:57] Eldar: But to him, it's probably- Yeah ... completely justified. Yes. 

[00:46:59] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah the to benefit from it is the prerequisite is being able to t- to do proper math- 

[00:47:06] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:47:07] Toliy: on that subject, on what- 

[00:47:08] Eldar: And I think that's what we're trying to get to. Yeah. Yes. Right? And I think that's, again, going back to the God conversation, I think God bre- breathed reason or logic, this ability for us to be able to think- 

[00:47:20] About these things in such a way where they can be coherent. Mm-hmm. And when we get this coherence or when we c- finally come to this logical conclusion where it's like, "Oh, that makes sense," that feels good. 

[00:47:30] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yes. That, 

[00:47:31] Eldar: that- 

[00:47:31] Toliy: In the soul- Yes ... 

[00:47:32] Eldar: or in the heart. 

[00:47:33] Toliy: 100%, yeah. Yeah. That, that's also 

[00:47:35] Eldar: why- That's why he's saying you can track it.

[00:47:36] You can't just j- we can, we don't have to just keep saying, like, "Oh, you know, this is spiritual," this other stuff. Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah. We can track it back if we really zoom in to the details. That's why we said in the other podcast, if you listen, God is in- The details ... the details. 

[00:47:49] Toliy: Yeah. That's why when Dave, for example, came in here, he's like, "Hey, guys," things are good right now."

[00:47:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:54] Toliy: But if we asked him, like, "Hey, wait, why is life so much better for you right now?" And he just said, "I don't really know." 

[00:47:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:59] Toliy: Right? 

[00:47:59] Eldar: He 

[00:47:59] Toliy: definitely knew. Then I would be like, "Yo, like what, what's going on?" What's wrong with 

[00:48:01] Eldar: this guy? 

[00:48:01] Toliy: You know? 

[00:48:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:02] Toliy: He obviously has- He's incoherent. He obviously has reasons.

[00:48:04] He's, he's saying- Yes ... business is better. Yes. Maybe this is better. Decisions are better, yeah. Maybe he's hanging out with better friends. Yeah. Maybe he says I get better sleep. May- maybe it's less stress. Those are all logical- Conclusions ... reasons. Yeah. Now, that could be how he's feeling now, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:48:17] But for example- If he doesn't have the right, decision-making abilities or maybe, like, morals or the right ways of doing things, maybe he takes on too- more than he can chew business-wise, and then before you know it- 

[00:48:29] Eldar: Yeah, he's overwhelmed ... 

[00:48:30] Toliy: he's overwhelmed. Yeah. And maybe he could come back and say like, "Hey, guys, like, life's really bad right now."

[00:48:35] Eldar: Yeah. Right? I, I might have solved the money problem- 

[00:48:36] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[00:48:37] Eldar: but I got something else. 

[00:48:37] Toliy: Maybe he got a bigger stress. Yeah. So yeah, part of life is then being able to manage everything properly and to do things- Yeah ... which will also make logical sense where, like, maybe one problem- Yeah ... was money. May- maybe that's working towards being solved, but you could develop a different problem.

[00:48:50] Before you know it, yeah, you could say life's bad again. 

[00:48:53] Dave: Yeah. A- and that's an interesting point, actually. That would... goes to the idea of like, like say for business, uh, making profit. 

[00:49:00] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:01] Dave: Right? You gotta make your profit with a business, right? So if I was f- for example, saying like I w- I had a hobby and I wanted to turn it into, like, a business, then w- with, with that being said, it means you gotta make some profit.

[00:49:14] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:15] Dave: And it has to be a profitable business. A- and so w- with all that being the case, so it's like, one of the things I like to do is I, I like to make mangoes. I like to make dried mangoes. Sure. I think it's a lot of fun. 

[00:49:28] Mike: Cool. 

[00:49:28] Dave: But as a business, when you look at it from, like, profit and capitalism and all these different things I can...

[00:49:36] It doesn't make sense, right? Because I can go to Costco and I can get dried mangoes for, like, a pound for 10 bucks. 

[00:49:42] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:49:43] Dave: And w- what I would have to do is sell it for like, you know, say $80 a pound- 

[00:49:48] ... 

[00:49:48] Dave: To make profit because of I'm just one man- Mm-hmm ... making dried mangoes- 

[00:49:53] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:49:54] Dave: versus Costco- 

[00:49:55] Eldar: Establishment

[00:49:56] Dave: is a multi-billion dollar, 10,000, well, more than 10,000 employees, co- company. 

[00:50:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:04] Dave: So it's like, do I just not do it, or I just continue it being fun? And then it's like, you know, it's just- You know, I just do this for fun, right? Mm. And then it's not always about numbers and profit and ma- does it make logical sense, and am I doing it.

[00:50:20] It's just like, ah, I just like making mangoes. 

[00:50:23] Eldar: With that being said, how come you didn't bring any mangoes? Yeah. 

[00:50:25] Dave: Yes. 

[00:50:26] Eldar: You know, you brought incense. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Next time we're expecting mangoes. I love- Right ... 

[00:50:30] Dave: I love mangoes. 

[00:50:31] Eldar: Yes. Especially if they're sour. Yeah. I, um, I like sour ones.

[00:50:34] Dave: Sour, 

[00:50:34] Eldar: yeah. So if you do, if you do like mangoes, do you like making sour ones? 

[00:50:37] Dave: Yes. 

[00:50:37] Eldar: All right. We make sour ones. Can you please bring sour mangoes next time you come? Of 

[00:50:40] Dave: course. We did. We did. We... Well, we did all 

[00:50:41] Eldar: kinds of stuff. And I hope you're still doing well in your business, so you can, you can just gift them to us.

[00:50:45] We don't have to- That's the- ... pay for the mangoes ... that's, 

[00:50:46] Dave: that's the idea. 

[00:50:46] Eldar: The 

[00:50:47] Dave: 80 bucks. Yeah, 'cause $80 a pound is a little too 

[00:50:49] Eldar: much. 

[00:50:50] Dave: $80 a pound is a little too much. It's like, it's like crazy, right? Yeah. It's a lot of money. 

[00:50:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:50:51] Dave: Well, what I do sell them is, uh, I sell... For $10 I sell three ounces. 

[00:50:55] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:50:56] Dave: And, um, yeah, then if you do that and the math, it comes to $60 a pound.

[00:51:00] Eldar: Well, we have a bunch of listeners now, so if you wanna plug your mango business- ... and where you can buy some of these mangoes, please do so. Shame free. Do you ship 

[00:51:08] Dave: or no? No, no. Oh, 

[00:51:09] Eldar: you don't ship? This is all, what is it called? Pick- ... local pickup only. Local pickup only. Cash on 

[00:51:13] Dave: delivery. 

[00:51:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:15] Dave: You come to 

[00:51:15] Eldar: the house, I give you some mangoes and that's it.

[00:51:17] Nice. All right, good. That's 

[00:51:18] Dave: it. 

[00:51:18] Eldar: That's 

[00:51:18] Dave: all you got. Yeah. 

[00:51:20] Eldar: And the mangoes is a code word for- What? It's just, it's just mangoes. 

[00:51:24] Dave: Oh. 

[00:51:25] Eldar: Okay, cool. I'm the mango man. I like that. All right, cool. Yeah. So where were we? Are we fucked? Oh, wait, or is God just playing this fucking... He's like, "You know what, motherfuckers?

[00:51:37] I'm gonna just throw this at you, and for the rest of your life you have to figure out a balance." 

[00:51:41] Toliy: Yeah, I just feel that that that, like, hu- humans have no idea yet as to, like, what they're actually- 

[00:51:48] Eldar: Up 

[00:51:48] Toliy: against ... capable... No, capable of. 

[00:51:50] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:50] Toliy: Like, what's actually possible. 

[00:51:53] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:53] Toliy: And I think that as time continues, there is, like, progression and then there's also regression on things.

[00:51:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:00] Toliy: But then there's, you know, I think breakthroughs ju- just like there is for all of us, like, in, in- individually. 

[00:52:05] And then we continue to push that line as to, like, wow, like, you can live that way, you could do this. Mm-hmm. You actually do have control over this. Okay, maybe you're not as reliable...

[00:52:15] as reliant on, like, I don't know, who's in power in the government. Is it a Republican leader or is it a Democratic leader? 

[00:52:22] Is it the person you like or you didn't like? Is your whole world upside down? Is it a little bit better or bad based on, like, tax laws- Mm-hmm ... right, and, like, this and that?

[00:52:30] Or is it, like, complete shit? Are you... Is it over for you? Mm-hmm. Or do you not give a fuck, like, regardless, right? Yeah. Who's in power and who, who, who is that? Those are all different types of people, and all of those different types of people are ones that exist, right? 

[00:52:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:52:43] Toliy: The people who don't give a fuck, the people who really give a fuck.

[00:52:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:52:46] Toliy: The people who are give a fuck but they're, like, marginally influenced, right? 

[00:52:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:52:51] Toliy: So to to, to me it's like all of this stuff, AI, all of these different things, they continue to help us, I think, push the boundaries as to, like, what are humans actually capable of. 

[00:53:04] Eldar: But is it, is it promoting not necessarily what humans are capable of or finding the truth? Is it actually promoting to say, like, "Hey, as humans, guys- Yeah ... like, we clearly all bleed the same, we suffer the same, we have issues, we have pain. Let's solve it." 

[00:53:19] Toliy: See, see, I think it... There, there's always a pulsating, like, um, magnet- 

[00:53:25] Eldar: Mm-hmm

[00:53:25] Toliy: of to, of finding the truth for everybody. 

[00:53:29] Eldar: For everybody. 

[00:53:30] Toliy: For everybody who has this. Just not at the 

[00:53:31] Eldar: same time. 

[00:53:32] Toliy: No. J- just not that it's not the same time, sometimes you have to go into heavy regression to progress. So even though there could be things that feel like regression of things- Mm-hmm

[00:53:43] right? Or you're like, pe- constantly you hear everyone say, "Oh, mankind's going down the shitter," right? Mm-hmm. Like, "We're going all downhill." Yeah. "Everything's going down, downhill." Which, at times could be true on different topics, right? But then it could go uphill. It you know, it could go down and it could back up.

[00:53:58] Yeah. Depending on, like, what's- 

[00:54:00] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:54:01] Toliy: what's happening. Yeah. So I still think that there is a forever magnet towards the truth just like- 

[00:54:08] Eldar: But some dark times are inevitable. 

[00:54:10] Toliy: No, 

[00:54:10] Dave: but, but I think that, like- I 

[00:54:12] Eldar: think what Mike said is really on point ... 

[00:54:13] Dave: the challenge is the 

[00:54:14] Eldar: compass 

[00:54:15] Dave: of, like, 

[00:54:15] Eldar: where to go- I haven't said anything

[00:54:16] Dave: to find it. 

[00:54:16] Eldar: No, hold on a second. 

[00:54:17] Dave: Hold on a second. Dave, 

[00:54:18] Eldar: you complimenting Mike? 

[00:54:20] Dave: Yeah, I, I believe that he's, r- really on track because what he said before was about cigarettes- Mm-hmm ... and how we, um, we, you know, stopped cigarettes. You, that's- We 

[00:54:31] Mike: figured it out- Oh, 

[00:54:32] Dave: that ... is what you said. You, you said the whole thing just before- Mm-hmm

[00:54:34] about cigarettes. 

[00:54:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:54:34] Dave: Yeah. Um, and I think that's really the where, where we need to be. We need to coordinate. We need to all come together and be like, "Okay, AI is not helping us. People are, committing suicide," or there's some, like- Mm-hmm ... I don't know, some kind of big event that people are happening.

[00:54:52] Something happens. But you need a, you need, you need 

[00:54:53] Eldar: causation. You need to draw a sp- specific causation. Well, 

[00:54:55] Dave: like what happened with cigarettes? Like- They finally drew it, right? They found a correlation with lung- And we... Yes ... cancer? Is that, was that- Yeah. Probably ... was that what eventually happened?

[00:55:00] Lung cancer. Yeah, 

[00:55:04] Mike: I don't know. 

[00:55:04] Dave: Eventually lung cancer happened. 

[00:55:06] Mike: They finally admitted it. 

[00:55:07] Dave: And they eventu- Well, they knew all along. They admitted it. Yeah. That's what happened. And Mike is an advocate that cigarettes is, uh, cigarette 

[00:55:13] Mike: smoking is healthy. I actually think cigarettes is good for your health. 

[00:55:14] Dave: I...

[00:55:15] For, 

[00:55:15] Mike: for 

[00:55:15] Dave: my health. 

[00:55:15] Mike: Yeah. Not for, not for your health, but for my health. 

[00:55:17] Eldar: Yes. Well, I think at the end of the day, if you find the balance in the things that we talk about, the gambling, right? The cigarettes. I 

[00:55:24] Mike: think that's funny. 

[00:55:25] Eldar: Well, yeah. Mike has a whole theory on this. I have a 

[00:55:26] Mike: whole theory. No. 

[00:55:27] Eldar: You have to listen to po- podcast, probably 50 or 60.

[00:55:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:55:30] Eldar: Yeah, Mike, we talked about this extensively. I would like to hear that one. Extensively. Mike, are you interested in smoking cigarettes? Yeah, I would like to hear his theory about- He's always been looking to justify smoking, but he couldn't do it, but Mike does it really well. Yeah, he likes to smoke.

[00:55:39] Yeah. So if you're a smoker and you're listening- I could 

[00:55:41] Mike: teach you how 

[00:55:42] Eldar: to smoke ... yes, how to smoke and not feel bad about it. Guilt free. Guilt free. Guilt free and make it healthy for you. And health 

[00:55:46] Mike: benefits. 

[00:55:46] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:55:46] Toliy: Yeah. How many people, if you just made a website and actually push and said, "Hey, I'm not gonna give you any hints ahead of time, but you need to...

[00:55:52] If you pay $500, I'm gonna show you exactly how to make cigarettes smoking healthy for you." 

[00:55:58] Eldar: Make cigarettes healthy again. Yeah. Yeah. And, and extend your life. 

[00:56:01] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:56:02] Toliy: How many people 

[00:56:03] Eldar: would pay for this? Are you kidding me? Are you ki- Yeah ... you know how many people struggle with this conversation internally?

[00:56:07] Yeah. A lot. Why is Dave touching his wallet, right? He's excited. He's like, "Yo, Mike, take, take my money, Mike. I get a discount." Try 

[00:56:14] Mike: to sign me, Mike. Give me the 500 and I'll buy the first pack for you. Yeah. Shit. 

[00:56:19] Dave: Coach me. You gotta coach me. Yeah. 

[00:56:20] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, you used to smoke, right? 

[00:56:22] Dave: No, I, I never smoked cigarettes.

[00:56:24] Never? Never? Oh. I just think it was, I just think it was funny, you know, the way you talked about it. Uh, 

[00:56:27] Mike: yeah. 

[00:56:28] Dave: Yeah. That's good, man. Yeah, I mean, anyway, that, that could be it, man. May- maybe you should, um- Maybe we should, you should show the people. You should do a course. Make a course. I can, yeah. They know how to reach us.

[00:56:41] Eldar: They know how to reach us, yeah, of course. Sign up. Yeah. If you wanna do a one-on-one with Mike here, here's the plug, just hit me up. 

[00:56:46] Dave: Yeah. 

[00:56:46] Eldar: Hit us up and then we'll make a connection. Cigarette 

[00:56:48] Toliy: smoking, uh, 101. 

[00:56:49] Eldar: Cigarette smoking 101. Yeah, that's how you do it. How to do it in a much healthier, balanced way. 

[00:56:53] Dave: Yeah.

[00:56:53] Eldar: Where it's not only you enjo- continue to enjoy it- People would pay for that ... but you, you also, yeah, you also make it healthy for you. Well, I think- And we can, and we can back it up with the markers. 

[00:57:03] Mike: With the what? 

[00:57:03] Eldar: Markers. Like, you know, the, everybody wants to see fucking- Oh, 

[00:57:05] Mike: yeah, 

[00:57:06] Eldar: yeah, yeah ... uh, scientific results.

[00:57:08] I 

[00:57:08] Mike: smoked 20 years, I can still run like, uh- 

[00:57:10] Eldar: Like an ox ... 

[00:57:10] Mike: 20 miles all day. 

[00:57:11] Eldar: Nice. 

[00:57:12] Mike: No problem. 

[00:57:13] Eldar: I like that. 

[00:57:13] Mike: No cough. 

[00:57:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:15] Toliy: Yeah. What to me is also interesting part of this is, like, the, um- You know how, like, things go viral, for example? 

[00:57:23] But it's not, like, things that, like, don't exist or something or, like, they- they just go viral based on a particular craze, and now you have, like, so many different people that are now, like, consuming something, whether it's like a food or whether it's like- Yeah

[00:57:36] clothing or like- 

[00:57:37] Eldar: Yeah, boom. 

[00:57:38] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:57:39] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:39] Toliy: And how, how does that happen,

[00:57:40] Eldar: yeah. Some- it's just... It's a bunch of loser shit put together. 

[00:57:44] Toliy: But- 

[00:57:44] Eldar: At the 

[00:57:44] Toliy: right time ... the, the, the viral portion of it is that, like, you see so many people doing it and now you wanna do it because everyone else is kind of doing it.

[00:57:52] Eldar: Yeah. Influence. 

[00:57:54] Toliy: And that thing could have existed and just been- 

[00:57:56] Eldar: Well, because the viral moment or whatever it is is, like, it's th- something that's baked into it is, like, this fun, happy moment, 

[00:58:03] Toliy: right? No, what's ba- no. What- what's baked into it is the feeling of, of being part of something and being in.

[00:58:07] Eldar: Yeah. And if you're not- Right ... then you're missing out. 

[00:58:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:58:11] Eldar: Because you're a loser. 

[00:58:12] Toliy: Because you're a loser, yeah. Because you yet don't have that influence over yourself where you're like, where you're, like, saying, "Hey I'm gonna choose to do this right now because I want to do it- 

[00:58:20] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:58:21] Toliy: and because I enjoy it."

[00:58:22] But, you can also then choose to not do this thing ever again. 

[00:58:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:58:27] Toliy: But that kind of rare, that kind of control over your life is, I think, extremely difficult and extremely rare. 

[00:58:33] Eldar: Do you think AI's gonna get us there? 

[00:58:35] Toliy: Um- 

[00:58:35] Eldar: Specifically not just AI on your computer or PC, but the chips that we're gonna install in our brains.

[00:58:41] Toliy: Oh. 

[00:58:41] Eldar: What are they gonna say? You know what? You don't know how to, you don't know how to coordinate today. Yeah, 

[00:58:45] Toliy: see, I, 

[00:58:45] Eldar: I- I will take care of that. 

[00:58:46] Toliy: Yeah, see, I'm not sure if, if it's like, you know- 

[00:58:49] Eldar: You just- ... 'cause like there, there's- ... small little dopamine here. Erase this memory here. Yeah. And you're just kinda like, "Oh, clarity."

[00:58:55] Toliy: Yeah, I'm not sure because I feel like there, there there's actually a whole thing about this, about like the ethics of AI- Mm-hmm ... for example thing and like- Yeah ... how these things are built to make sure that they're ethical. I think E- E- Elon Musk was, like- 

[00:59:05] ... 

[00:59:05] Toliy: Talking about this, like the dangers of of AI, right?

[00:59:09] We, we- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... we were talking about this, I think- For 

[00:59:10] Mike: sure ... 

[00:59:11] Toliy: before. So yeah, I'm, I'm... I don't know how these things are gonna get built, and like, yeah, whether they, like... will they have anti-ethical blockers, right? 

[00:59:20] Mike: Like- Would you consider, would you consider AI to be a shortcut- 

[00:59:23] Toliy: Um- ... to this? To a shortcut?

[00:59:25] No. 

[00:59:26] Mike: It won't? 

[00:59:26] Toliy: No, because I- You don't think so? No, no. Okay. Because I feel like the, um, the truth's been out there already for, like- thousands of years. So- Yeah ... it, and it hasn't been, um, like- Yeah ... that opportunity of, of getting, like, the, uh, truth and, like, understanding it has not been, like, that, that opportunity has not been seized for thousands of years.

[00:59:47] Yeah. And now with A- 

[00:59:48] Eldar: AI- What would, what would the world look like if we just say, "You know what? Let's just plug you in, like in the Matrix," right? Yeah. And download all this information, ethics, and everything else- Mm-hmm ... all the, all the truths about the world and yourself. Yeah. And it's like, let's just be actualized.

[01:00:00] Toliy: Yeah, I think it would be a next level place. 

[01:00:02] Mike: The thing is, yeah, I th- I think we're actually all are actualized, we just haven't unlocked it. We all have the knowledge that's required to be actualized. 

[01:00:10] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:00:10] Mike: But nobody's gonna... If you know how to lose weight- Mm ... nobody's gonna put n- I mean, AI might walk you to the gym.

[01:00:16] That's the thing. You can know all the information, but you still have to make the choice. 

[01:00:20] Eldar: Now- 

[01:00:21] Mike: Yeah ... AI pl- programs you that you no longer have a choice in 

[01:00:24] Eldar: the matter. But Mike, uh, uh, AI's gonna solve motivation, for example, right? That's not gonna be an issue. Today you're not motivated? Oh, a little drop of this is gonna be inserted into your brain.

[01:00:31] Yeah, sure. If you're talking about- You're fucking 

[01:00:34] Toliy: zooted motivated ... if you're talking about that- No, but you have that already now 

[01:00:36] Eldar: Well, I mean, I'm just saying- You, you can't, you can't- ... in a very, in a very calculated way ... 

[01:00:39] Toliy: you can't focus? 

[01:00:41] Eldar: No. Well, we can prescribe you Adderall. 

[01:00:42] Toliy: Adderall. 

[01:00:43] Eldar: Well, yeah. Done. Yeah, but this is gonna be, like, right there.

[01:00:45] Your mind's not gonna wander. It, it's gonna be a big chip over in your head. Well, 

[01:00:45] Dave: I think that, I think that the, the, the biggest thing we're all talking about is that it has to be, like, embodied. It has to be internalized. Yes, yes. 

[01:00:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:00:52] Dave: You could tell me everything you want to tell me about losing weight, but I have to internalize it- Yeah

[01:00:56] and then do it. And AI 

[01:00:57] Eldar: might get there, right? Yeah, 

[01:00:58] Dave: it's not gonna get you home. I don't think AI's ever gonna get there. Just- I think you're always gonna have to internalize the thing, 'cause in the end- Oh ... it's your life. 

[01:01:04] Mike: You gotta do it. Oh. That's 

[01:01:05] Toliy: why I was asking about the 

[01:01:06] Mike: shortcut. 

[01:01:07] Toliy: No, but I think that you can...

[01:01:07] No, but I think you can potentially- No shortcuts. No 

[01:01:09] Mike: shortcuts. 

[01:01:09] Toliy: No shortcut. You just gotta do it. Yeah, you just gotta do it. Well, well, well, no, I think that may- yeah, maybe with, like, particular brain chips, I think that you can forfeit- No shortcuts ... you can forfeit your, uh, free will, right? Like, eventually I think that that will be a possibility.

[01:01:21] Eldar: I think so. Oh, no, 

[01:01:22] Toliy: I, I- 

[01:01:23] Eldar: Yeah. That 

[01:01:23] Toliy: would 

[01:01:23] Eldar: be the ultimate control then ... that's a different conversation, Mike, whether or not we should take the shortcut. That would be the ultimate control. No, I don't think you, I- But is it, is it gonna be possible that one day you're an alcoholic Elon Musk installs this little chip and it races your memory that you're an alcoholic?

[01:01:34] I don't think the world- I think s- I, I- I think that's coming. Yeah. Do you think the world- I, I think it's coming too ... 

[01:01:37] Mike: do you think it's the, it's... I don't know, 

[01:01:39] Eldar: man. I'm not saying, necessarily saying it's a shortcut, but I think it's gonna be an available technology. I'm not sure when, but I think that's coming.

[01:01:46] So, so why should- But 

[01:01:46] Dave: that's, that's essentially taking away your free will. 

[01:01:51] Eldar: Yeah. Well, no, no, no. Well, your free will is to say, like, I'm waking up and saying, like, "Yo, I wanna get rid of this. Like, I'm having a hard time. Like, I'm done with 

[01:01:57] Dave: being an alcoholic." You can 

[01:01:58] Eldar: give- Do it. 

[01:01:58] Dave: Yeah. What he, what he's saying is you can give away your free will with a chip.

[01:02:02] I think you will be able to, yeah. 

[01:02:04] Mike: Yeah, I think if you're not able- Then you're giving away your, like, godhood ... to govern yourself, and then you choose to have an exter- external power to govern it- 

[01:02:10] ... 

[01:02:10] Mike: You give away your own free will. You give away your own power to actually change your life, and you need- But you're doing that right now, right?

[01:02:15] No, not at all. 

[01:02:16] Toliy: Yeah. Not at all. How so? Yeah, not at all, no. Dude, we just talked about control the whole time. 'Cause, oh, you're giving the ultimate control. The reason why you, you, you bought those fucking moccasins. Well, no. Besides, c- can you pump those- You're, you're giving 

[01:02:24] Dave: the ultimate control away to the person 

[01:02:26] Toliy: that- No, no

[01:02:26] has the microchip. Because you're seeing it right now from a literal sense, but you- Yes ... you wake up every day, and you choose to do this consciously right now. Well, un- unconsciously. 

[01:02:34] Dave: Yes. Subconsciously, it's the reason why you bought those flippers. I think that's the idea of meditation, though. If you wake up in the morning you light an incense.

[01:02:43] Eldar: Uh-huh. 

[01:02:43] Dave: You do some meditation. 

[01:02:45] Eldar: Mm-hmm.

[01:02:48] The only thing that I choose that I don't want necessarily is getting a boner in the morning. It just happens. I don't have a choice in the matter. Why you laughing? You know 

[01:02:59] Dave: what I'm talking about. This fucking 

[01:03:00] Eldar: guy. You know what I'm saying? 

[01:03:01] Dave: Especially if there's- You do choose it ... 

[01:03:03] Eldar: mulch around. Especially, yo- Especially if there's mulch

[01:03:05] yo, you know what? One thing that gets my dick hard is mulch. That's the craziest thing I ever heard. That's the fucking craziest thing I ever heard. It's true, though. I'm telling you, I really like mulch. But you know what 

[01:03:16] Mike: I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? I don't, but I'm not sure if that, if there is a God- that he would be okay with that to happen. You know- Of course he would. I don't know ... I, I'm not sure. Uh, Mike- He created this ... I don't know, 

[01:03:28] Eldar: Mike. I'm not sure. I don't know if it's a manmade creation. If, if, yeah, it's, if God is all-knowing, Mike, God already see this shit. This is like- But it's a manmade invention Is it just for a person to do that?

[01:03:38] I mean, think about it. To shortcut this thing? No, but Toliy said. No, but is it just to- If the, if the truth is out there, if the truth is out there- 

[01:03:44] Mike: Yeah ... 

[01:03:44] Eldar: it's been out there for so long, and you guys can't still figure this shit out. These tech nerds are figuring it out. 

[01:03:50] Mike: Yeah. Well, then, sounds like- They 

[01:03:51] Eldar: had enough.

[01:03:52] They had enough- But there are also people ... of the fucking idiots that say enough is enough ... they're also, they're also people. You in jail right now because you're a killer. Yeah. You're gonna forget that. You're gonna be a, a productive member of society after I fucking put this chip in you. That's it. 

[01:04:02] Mike: Yeah.

[01:04:03] Eldar: But you will never kill again. You will never kill again. Yeah. You will never steal again. You will garden. 

[01:04:07] Mike: Yeah. You'll be like a innocent- 

[01:04:09] Toliy: Yeah, that- Folk ... that's like saying, is, is it- That's like a slave ... is it, it is it, um, not just for you to drive a car? 

[01:04:16] That, that kind of argument to me would be like saying like- You're doing, you're doing 

[01:04:19] Mike: the analogy 

[01:04:19] Toliy: thing

[01:04:19] is it not, yeah. 

[01:04:20] Mike: Give 

[01:04:20] Toliy: analogy. Yeah. Okay. But a good one, though. Is it not just for you to drive a car? 

[01:04:24] Mike: Is it not just for me to drive a car? 

[01:04:25] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:04:27] Mike: Why you driving a manmade creation? 

[01:04:29] Toliy: Why you not walking? Why, 

[01:04:30] Mike: yeah, why are you not walking from A to 

[01:04:31] Toliy: B? Are you taking a shortcut? You love driving. 

[01:04:33] Mike: Well, it's not a matter of, driving is not a matter of, like, a justice for me.

[01:04:38] I don't look at it in a just way. 

[01:04:39] Toliy: Well, well, no, but it, but it's a shortcut, 

[01:04:41] Mike: right? Uh, there's a difference between, like, uh, shortcutting, like, uh, skipping somebody in the bread line or not using, like, ethics and morals- But what if you took that car from your house to the library? That's... Is it more justified or 

[01:04:55] Eldar: less justified?

[01:04:57] Mike: What, because you're going to get knowledge? 

[01:04:58] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:05:00] Mike: Nah. That was a good one. Yeah. 

[01:05:02] Eldar: So how far do you wanna bend that? 

[01:05:04] Mike: Well, I think 

[01:05:04] Eldar: there's- Like, I'm gonna use some of man, man's creations to benefit myself, quote, unquote- And society or- And society. 

[01:05:10] Toliy: Medicine, right? 

[01:05:10] Eldar: Yeah, but I'm not gonna use others because, like, 'cause, yeah, when you get sick, like we go and fucking use Western medicine to get better. Yeah. You don't go like, "All right, cool. Let's go to fucking... Let's go ground ourselves and fucking let God do its thing." You know what I mean? 

[01:05:22] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:05:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:05:24] Toliy: Th- those are all, like- Shortcuts ... shortcuts, right? 

[01:05:27] Eldar: Sure. But 

[01:05:28] Mike: I don't think, like, uh, I don't think you can take shortcuts in, like, uh, self-development or, like, uh- Yeah

[01:05:33] virtue or- Not acceptive, yeah ... or morality or, like- Yeah ... ethics. 

[01:05:35] Toliy: But that's also, like- Yeah, you can't do accept development ... your perception of, of it right now in the- Sure ... in its current form, right? But I'm saying that, like- Well, yeah, 

[01:05:41] Mike: sure ... 

[01:05:42] Toliy: all, all, also there, there's people that play World of Warcraft- who are completely paralyzed and they have the chip. 

[01:05:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:05:47] Toliy: And they can control the mouse- Control the mouse with the- And their, and the character- Mm-hmm ... just through their mind- Mm-hmm ... by just looking at it. Okay. So that, that's out right now. 

[01:05:54] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:05:54] Toliy: And people do this right now. I 

[01:05:55] Eldar: know. 

[01:05:55] Mike: I've seen 

[01:05:56] Toliy: it. Right?

[01:05:56] You've seen it. I've seen it. 

[01:05:57] Eldar: I've seen 

[01:05:57] Toliy: it. You know? So, like, that's there right now. So is what we're talking about far-fetched? No. I 

[01:06:03] Mike: mean, it's just like, do you- I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just asking the, as a- Whether or not it's 

[01:06:06] Toliy: right 

[01:06:07] Mike: or wrong. Yeah, I, I, that's also a choice. If God wanted us to have the answers, why are we, why'd he drag this out this whole time?

[01:06:14] Eldar: I, I think that, I mean- 

[01:06:15] Mike: Or you thought, or you, like you said, he knows everything then, then he could have predicted that we're gonna drag it out. 

[01:06:19] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:06:20] Mike: But then why drag it out if he could have predicted we'd end up here now? See, 

[01:06:23] Eldar: I'm not sure if, if God has a s- like a horse in a race, bro. 

[01:06:26] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:06:26] Mike: I really don't think so.

[01:06:27] Toliy: Yeah. I think that he's also- Mm-hmm ... completely fine- He don't, I don't think he gives a fuck ... with like a, like a- Sure. Sure ... like a implosion, complete just- Yeah ... 

[01:06:33] Mike: erasing. Then what- Yeah ... what was the point of doing this whole thing? Like we were living in, you know- To give choice ... Adam and Eve. 

[01:06:38] Toliy: To give choice.

[01:06:39] Mike: But then he's gonna take it away? 

[01:06:40] Toliy: He's not taking it away. 

[01:06:41] Mike: He is because he created- No ... humans and humans created this thing. 

[01:06:44] Toliy: But then hu- yeah, hu- humans have the option for one way or the other way. 

[01:06:49] Dave: Well, 

[01:06:49] Mike: humans must 

[01:06:50] Toliy: deliberate on what they're going to do, 

[01:06:51] Mike: right? Humans really don't have a choice one way or another, I think mostly.

[01:06:54] You just gotta, you decide what you're gonna 

[01:06:55] Toliy: do- Well- ... for your day ... mo- most pe- most people don't yet, but the whole, I think the whole point of progression is to have choice. 

[01:07:03] I mean- That's also why the people that don't have choice, they're gonna get controlled by the apps and by the different things.

[01:07:11] And- Yeah ... you know, different people are at different levels where, um, they might have some c- be controlled some- sometimes, and but not always, you know? Mm-hmm. Man, you know- Yeah. 

[01:07:24] Dave: That's the key thing, man. I mean, it's all about... It's, like, you, you chose to put this chip in your head to do, to play whatever, and there's consequences to that action.

[01:07:34] Eldar: Listen, I think we're far away- Well- ... from those kinds of things. 

[01:07:36] Dave: Yeah. I, I think we're very far away- I think it's like if, if- ... personally ... 

[01:07:39] Toliy: if there was a, uh, like a, like those types of solutions available, would you personally act on them right now? 

[01:07:45] Eldar: I'm not sure, because I actually like the journey that Mike speaks of.

[01:07:48] But I like it. 

[01:07:49] Mike: Yeah, we had- Yeah. Wait, we had this question before- Yeah ... and I think s- you asked somebody or somebody asked you and if you would take the shortcut- 

[01:07:55] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:07:55] Mike: or would you would take everything back and then take that pill. 

[01:07:57] Eldar: Yeah, the... And I'm gonna remind you that the fa- your favorite movie is Click.

[01:08:00] Yes. 

[01:08:00] Mike: Yeah. No. Your favorite movie is Click. I, 

[01:08:02] Eldar: I... Yeah, I personally like the journey- Yeah, me too ... because I like the self-im- Hell yeah ... self-development journey. You gotta go 

[01:08:07] Mike: on the journey. And 

[01:08:08] Eldar: like, like Dave said earlier, it's like, it's like, like almost speaking to God, right? Discovering your own self, it's like getting closer to God, because we're so fascinating.

[01:08:16] Yeah. You know what I mean? So despite the fact that I have stressors right now, no, I'm not sure if I would just click the button and erase that memory. 

[01:08:23] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:08:23] Eldar: That's a great- I'm just not sure. I don't 

[01:08:24] Toliy: think- No, but I'm saying- Yeah ... would, would you, would, like- But, 

[01:08:27] Eldar: but, but- If there were ways that- ... but, but right now I'm thinking.

[01:08:30] Toliy: Yes. But 

[01:08:30] Eldar: if it- When I was... if you had that remote in front of me, in that moment, when I'm compromised, I might push the button. 

[01:08:35] Toliy: No, but I'm saying that would you- Mm. Mm ... if there was ways to download information- 

[01:08:39] Eldar: Good point. Uh-huh ... 

[01:08:39] Toliy: just like there's ways to download, you know, Microsoft Word, for ex- Yeah

[01:08:42] for example, right? Yeah. Would you do that? 

[01:08:46] Mike: For myself 

[01:08:47] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:08:48] Mike: But the way to download information in what sense? Like, you don't believe that- Yeah, do I, do I understand everything then? Yeah Like, do, 

[01:08:54] Toliy: do 

[01:08:54] Mike: like- You do ... does 

[01:08:54] Toliy: everything make sense? You do, yeah. 

[01:08:57] Mike: But what doesn't make sense? Or what information do you wanna download?

[01:09:00] Like, what, are you trying to build rockets? 

[01:09:02] Toliy: For example, in like anything I mean- Right ... like, I've never read the Bible, for example. 

[01:09:06] Mike: Do you have a desire to? 

[01:09:07] Toliy: Um, right now, no. But I'm saying there's like- So why would you 

[01:09:09] Mike: wanna download it? 

[01:09:10] Toliy: No, but I'm saying that, like, if- If you had the choice

[01:09:12] yeah, if I could just press a button right now- Mm-hmm ... and, and like, if, if you could just download the Bi- the Bible into your being- 

[01:09:18] ... 

[01:09:18] Toliy: Would you do it? 

[01:09:19] Mike: Would it, you would download it, and you would analyze it, and read it, and understand, and extract things from 

[01:09:23] Toliy: it? You, you would, yeah. Like, you would, you would have- But what would be the purpose?

[01:09:25] an understanding of it. Yeah. 

[01:09:26] Mike: What's the purpose of that? Mm-hmm. What, what is your end goal? Why are you trying to do that? 

[01:09:30] Toliy: Well, well, just 

[01:09:30] Mike: asking if you would. Are you just downloading it for 

[01:09:32] Dave: the hell of it? Just, ah, download random shit. I download cat 

[01:09:35] Toliy: food. Well, well, no, but you would have- I 

[01:09:35] Dave: download kung fu too.

[01:09:36] Yeah. 

[01:09:37] Toliy: It's just like, what the fuck? No, no, no, but you would want to download it because you had a you had some kind of desire. So, so for example- It would be for purpose ... if you like clay- Yeah ... and like, say, some clay guru wrote a book- No, 

[01:09:46] Eldar: you know, that, that's a very dangerous thing to go down- Yeah

[01:09:48] I think, because I think the con- I think 

[01:09:50] Toliy: it is, yeah ... 

[01:09:50] Eldar: yeah, I think because the consequences of what you're asking for are so unpredictable. 

[01:09:56] Toliy: Right now for, for 

[01:09:56] Eldar: ex- Because what you're, what you're s- well, you're not downloading the Bible and say, "You know what? I'm able to- Mm ... reference this, uh, God's speech- Yeah.

[01:10:04] The thing is, yeah ... or the crisis thing." Exactly. Which what's happening is that you're becoming completely different as a human, because- Yeah, yeah ... like, if you were to sit down and read the Bible right now- Mm-hmm ... the Bible might influence you in a very specific way, and that's a journey out of itself. What you're saying is that, like, you're gonna trans- trans...

[01:10:20] I'm not sure if it's possible, first 

[01:10:22] Mike: of all. The, also my other thing about AI, currently the way it works is it interprets information that's available for it. 

[01:10:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:30] Mike: And it gives, like, I, I've been solving a problem- 

[01:10:32] ... 

[01:10:32] Mike: For a week with AI. Yeah, yeah. A technical computer problem, okay? 

[01:10:35] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:10:37] Mike: And it keeps giving me solutions, and then yesterday or something it says, "Hey, I wasn't taking this seriously."

[01:10:42] Eldar: Yeah. "

[01:10:42] Mike: I'm sorry. I'm gonna give you a more in-depth answer now, because I wasn't taking this enough seriously to solve your problem." 

[01:10:47] It's going out there, reading information that's available. 

[01:10:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:50] Mike: It's interpreting it based on its own ability to, like, learn or, or understand information. How, like, can we be, how do we know or can we be convinced that- That is, well, obviously that is being, interpreting it properly, but also how do we also know how, that we're interpreting it properly?

[01:11:06] Let's say something more like the Bible. 

[01:11:08] If it says like, "Hey, this is the right thing to do based on the Bible", how do we know we're interpreting it right? Okay, so what Mike is saying that you... Yeah, 

[01:11:14] Eldar: I agree with you. Yeah, like how would you, how does the interpretation... you might get some factuals like, "Oh, okay, like George Washington was born in 1978 or some shit."

[01:11:20] Yeah. But you ain't gonna get like, "Oh, well, the, the morality behind this concept is this because this is right, this is wrong." And like, I'm not sure if you could just get that. The, well- And then, like, you're just like this enlightened being on the Bible. 

[01:11:32] Dave: Well, yeah. So I think- Yeah, that, and that's what I'm trying to say too, though.

[01:11:35] It's not just immediate enlightenment. 

[01:11:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:38] Dave: It's the idea of embodiment. It's the idea of internalization. It's the idea of like over time, you, you start to really know and internalize this information, you know, whatever that is. 

[01:11:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:50] Dave: If it's marketing information or it's Bible, if it's whatever angle it is, there's going to be a journey in which you are internalizing this and understanding this and that's like, people pay for, I think, your, your embodiment of information, right?

[01:12:06] I mean, I could go at leadership theories all day, but put me in a real leadership situation, and am I gonna embody those leadership theories that I was just talking about? Mm-mm. Maybe 

[01:12:16] Eldar: not. 

[01:12:17] Dave: Maybe not. Yeah. And that's what you need to work on. 

[01:12:19] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:12:19] Mike: That's right. Yeah. 

[01:12:20] Dave: That's the journey. 

[01:12:20] Eldar: And that's the journey.

[01:12:21] Mike: I agree. And I also think- I agree ... like that journey, that actually gets, gets your dick hard. Yeah. Like the journey- And much more than bolts ... of, of learning- Thank you, yes ... of learning- Yeah ... and then having that click where you feel that impact- 

[01:12:33] Eldar: Yes ... 

[01:12:33] Mike: in your life when you unlock something. Yeah. Like, "Wow, this makes so much sense."

[01:12:36] Like- Yeah. You're a different 

[01:12:37] Eldar: person ... 

[01:12:38] Mike: that is a, that's like you're a different person. Yeah. 

[01:12:39] Eldar: Oh. 

[01:12:40] Mike: If you do it that way that he, that was just, we were just talking about- 

[01:12:42] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:12:43] Mike: I'm not sure- I'm not sure if it's possible ... I'm not sure if it's possible. But, but also- And you won't experience the things that you would experience- Yeah

[01:12:48] by actually going out there yourself and- Yeah ... like putting in the work to solve the, the problems or- 

[01:12:54] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:12:54] Mike: whatever. 

[01:12:55] Toliy: Do you guys feel that the ability to interpret or misinterpret, is this a mental illness? 

[01:13:01] Mike: Mm. 

[01:13:02] Toliy: Or like, uh, how about this? No. No. The lack of ability to interpret properly, is that a mental illness?

[01:13:08] Mike: Uh, the what is it? The lack of- The, 

[01:13:10] Toliy: the lack of ability- 

[01:13:12] ... 

[01:13:12] Toliy: To interpret properly. 

[01:13:14] Mike: No, I think I think it's l- uh, lack of knowledge and impatience. 

[01:13:19] Toliy: Maybe. But all the, but you said all the knowledge is already in you 

[01:13:24] Mike: It is in you, but you have to have the patience in order to ask the questions, and you have to s- be able to slow down- 

[01:13:30] Toliy: Sit

[01:13:30] Mike: to sit and ask the questions. I can- But 

[01:13:32] Toliy: that all stems from the inability to interpret information properly, right? 

[01:13:36] Mike: Interpreting is you hear something and you're not understanding it properly. Going into yourself and getting those answers is different. You have to actually go in and dig. But if you already, 

[01:13:45] Toliy: but if you- Oh, yeah.

[01:13:46] But, but- Oh, yeah ... but because you already have all the answers, for example- 

[01:13:49] ... 

[01:13:49] Toliy: And you can't use them correctly, therefore it means that you're mis- misinterpreting what you already 

[01:13:55] Mike: have to begin with. If you have the answers out in front of you, that's one thing, but the answers, you actually have to dig and find them.

[01:13:59] In order to dig and find them, you have to sit down and slow down and have a conversation about it. 

[01:14:03] Eldar: But why do you coin it mental illness? Yeah, 

[01:14:04] Toliy: why me? Well, well, well, I'm asking is that, 'cause, like, to, 

[01:14:08] Eldar: to me- It sound, it sound what you describe as arrogance. 

[01:14:10] Toliy: Well- 

[01:14:10] Eldar: Yeah ... a- a- and you could call it a, a form of mental illness.

[01:14:14] But then again, like, mental illness or arrogance ca- can be 

[01:14:17] Toliy: treated. No, but I just feel that, like, this, this concept of, like, interpretation to me is very in- interesting, right? Because you could have 10 people read the same thing- 

[01:14:28] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:14:28] Toliy: and interpret in different ways. 

[01:14:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:30] Toliy: But- M- my, my assumption here is that there is a correct way.

[01:14:36] And because there's a correct way, if you have, two people that have the correct way and eight people that have different ways, and- And the- ... let's just call them incorrect ways- Yeah ... right? 

[01:14:46] It's almost like a, uh, like an illness to not be able- No ... to interpret properly. No, I disagree. 

[01:14:50] Dave: No, I don't think so.

[01:14:50] I don't think it's, um- I mean, the, 'cause the correct way is based on the result. Right. What's the result? The correct way is based on the result that you're looking for. 

[01:15:00] Toliy: Okay. 

[01:15:01] Dave: So what's the, what is the result? It could be a different result, that's why you're interpreting it differently. 

[01:15:06] Toliy: Well, 

[01:15:07] Dave: You get what I'm saying?

[01:15:08] Toliy: Well, society live, lives their life in different ways, and everyone makes obviously their own decisions. Yeah. And the re- and there, there's always going to be results and consequences to all of their actions. 

[01:15:19] Dave: Yeah. 

[01:15:20] Toliy: And many of them, for example, could be not good consequences. 

[01:15:23] Dave: Yeah. 

[01:15:25] Toliy: All that happens because of not being able to interpret information properly 

[01:15:31] Mike: No, but in order to interpret information, that means you have to have the information to interpret.

[01:15:37] I think before you can have that, you actually have to have the information to then interpret it. A lot of times- No, but then you have to have faculty to be able to also- Yeah ... see what you're looking at, 

[01:15:46] Toliy: to understand what you're looking at. Yeah. Well, no, the information the information is always there because, because of the, the act of misinterpretation happening- Mm-hmm

[01:15:52] that means there is interpretation being made. And I think that oftentimes in general, society's- 

[01:15:58] Mike: But is emotion emo- is like an emotional response, is that considered interpretation? Yeah. 

[01:16:03] Toliy: I 

[01:16:03] Mike: don't know if it's 

[01:16:03] a 

[01:16:03] Toliy: disease, though. I don't know if it's a mental disease. Of course. Yeah. I mean, for how, how long though?

[01:16:06] Pro- I- is- how pro- how prolonged is it? Yeah, I mean, I mean, essentially what you're talking about is- If you're angry at something, that's your interpretation of what's going on ... iterations. You're, you're at iterations, right? Yeah. 'Cause I, I make 

[01:16:14] Mike: mistakes. Being played out. Is that interpretation or is that a reaction?

[01:16:16] Like, is there a difference? I, 

[01:16:18] Toliy: I can't jump that. Well, you react this way because you have an interpretation of something, right? Like- Mm-hmm ... you may lose your wallet and be like, "All right. Fuck it. I don't care," right? That's your interpretation of the experience of losing, for example, 

[01:16:30] Eldar: your wallet.

[01:16:30] Interpretation? I don't think it's an interpretation. Not, not, not interpretation or reaction. That's your reaction, right, to it? 

[01:16:33] Toliy: No, it's a reaction. No, but your reactions come from your interpretations of things. 

[01:16:36] Eldar: Sure. But first, w- what you described, you said, "I don't care about it." F- f- for- That's the reaction.

[01:16:40] No, 

[01:16:40] Toliy: but first... no, but I'm saying first you have an interpretation. 

[01:16:43] Mike: No, first, I don't, I don't think you 

[01:16:45] Toliy: can- That 

[01:16:45] Mike: interpretation turns into a reaction. 

[01:16:46] Eldar: Sure. 

[01:16:46] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:16:47] Mike: It 

[01:16:47] Eldar: could. 

[01:16:47] Mike: Yeah. I'm not sure- No, no, it will ... if interpretation is the right word here. Like- Yeah I would agree with him. I'm not sure if it's the right word.

[01:16:55] Interpret- It's, it's- But why, why'd 

[01:16:56] Toliy: you pose the question in the first place? To me, it's just an interesting thing, because it's like, if you don't have the ability to interpret properly- 

[01:17:03] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:17:04] Toliy: you are guaranteed suffering. If you have the ability to interpret properly, you you, you have way be- better opportunities to use information in the proper ways to benefit and live a, a much better life.

[01:17:16] Eldar: So you're saying that i- if you see a pro- a person who's pro- like, for a long time has been committing the same kind of crime against themselves, right? By not interpreting- Yes ... the world the right way, and they've developed anger, for example, from that, because they are not interpreting the world the right way, that can be a form of mental illness.

[01:17:32] Toliy: Absolutely. Not, not- Then I 

[01:17:34] Eldar: agree 

[01:17:34] Toliy: with you ... not that it can, but it is. 

[01:17:35] Eldar: It is. Yeah, you're right. It is. Well, yeah, if you, if you put it the way you 

[01:17:38] Toliy: said it during the 

[01:17:39] Eldar: beginning- All because of interpretation ... or 

[01:17:40] Toliy: in retrospect- Yes. Well, I think 

[01:17:41] Eldar: over time- 

[01:17:42] Toliy: All of it is interpretation ... it, it... Yes. Life is just interpretation.

[01:17:45] It's your perception of things, right? 

[01:17:47] Dave: We're- No, I think, I think you're wrong, man. I think it's about results. What do you want? It's about what you want. 

[01:17:53] Toliy: Who do you know that misinterprets in- in- information and gets the right results? I mean, it's just like, but what- Yes. Introduce me to them ... but it, but like-

[01:17:56] I 

[01:17:57] Dave: think the, the best ex- I'd love to meet them ... the best example of this is art. The best example of this is art. 

[01:18:04] Toliy: Oh, no, you're not going there. Oh, 

[01:18:05] Dave: I love that 

[01:18:06] Toliy: place. 

[01:18:06] Dave: Yes. 

[01:18:06] Eldar: Love, love- Let's go. Let's go there. But J- James is, James' ears just perked up. I love this place. Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's 

[01:18:11] Dave: go there. Because if I, if I will look at a painting, and I'm interpreting this painting to be this you know, what...

[01:18:20] It's like, why is that wrong? But what's the result of it? The result is I feel happy that I see it this way. Deluded 

[01:18:27] Eldar: yourself. 

[01:18:28] Dave: I feel happy that I see it this way. "Oh, looks like this. Funny. Laugh along. Go to the next painting." It's an art gallery. Okay. The result was I laughed, I chuckled, and I, I had a sip of wine.

[01:18:42] I went to the next painting. 

[01:18:42] Eldar: Also, what he's saying is that like, yeah, okay, so he's saying that you can misinterpret shit. Doesn't mean that the artist wanted him to have that emotion, but he'd had it anyway. He interpreted whichever way he wanted to, just for the result that he wanted to. Does not necessarily mean he interpreted it in the right way.

[01:18:57] The painter who painted it like, "Yo, I wanted you to be sad." 

[01:19:00] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:19:01] No, but it's still his interpretation. 

[01:19:03] Eldar: Yeah, which is wrong, right? Which is wrong, because they- Well, no, the artist- The artist, the artist- Yeah ... drew the painting. Maybe the artist didn't do a good job of drawing the painting in such a way where he, then, then he, maybe he's not g- you could, you could go down this rabbit hole.

[01:19:14] But his interpretation of it got him the result that he wanted So what's the problem with that? I agree Well, well, well- Like, that works, 

[01:19:21] Toliy: you know? Well, well, no, but in that case, he's having the right interpretation based on what he's looking for. 

[01:19:26] Eldar: Okay, so then, so then you're putting the result as the prerequisite to interpreting things.

[01:19:32] Toliy: Well, 

[01:19:32] Eldar: you're the- So you can delude yourself. 

[01:19:33] Toliy: It, it all starts from a desire. 

[01:19:35] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:19:35] Toliy: Right? Whatever your desire is, if you can interpret properly and you can get exactly what you want, well, then you have a correct equation. 

[01:19:44] Eldar: But if you- But if you look at this- What if you're, what if you're interpreting incorrectly, but you get the result from the desire 

[01:19:49] Toliy: that you want?

[01:19:50] No, but it's your interpretation based on what you were seeking to begin with. You are the- Yeah, but is, is- You are the seeker and the interpreter ... the thing is, 

[01:19:55] Eldar: is 

[01:19:55] Mike: interpretation a subjective thing? Well, 

[01:19:58] Toliy: in the art, in the art 

[01:19:59] Mike: thing, 100%. In art it is. 

[01:20:00] Toliy: No, no. Yeah. On all things it is 

[01:20:03] Mike: Okay 

[01:20:04] Toliy: Interpretation So then how can 

[01:20:05] Mike: it 

[01:20:05] Toliy: be- Interpretation belongs- And if it's subjective, 

[01:20:07] Dave: it can't be objective 

[01:20:08] Toliy: is the idea Art, art...

[01:20:09] so art- And if it can't 

[01:20:10] Dave: be objective, then it can't really be, you know- Well, no, the, the act of- ... this sort of logical, um- True 

[01:20:15] Mike: mathematical thing ... mathematical 

[01:20:16] Toliy: thing Well, no, the, the act of interpreting is something that belongs to each of us. We all have o- ownership of how we interpret and what that, and what that, and- 

[01:20:24] Mike: True, we all have an ability to interpret, yes

[01:20:26] Toliy: yeah, and all that does 

[01:20:27] Mike: In, in different ways 

[01:20:28] Toliy: Y- yes 

[01:20:29] Mike: Yes 

[01:20:29] Toliy: Right? It, but that, that pr- that process- Mm-hmm ... and that whole thing belongs to each of us individually here. True Right? Now, if you're a s- a, um, seeker of something, and you're not getting exactly what you want from things, for example- 

[01:20:42] ... 

[01:20:42] Toliy: You're most likely misinterpreting.

[01:20:46] And because of your inability- You're not a seeker. How? ... to interpret properly, but still have the desire to seek things and to get things your inability to interpret causes continuous suffering for yourself. 

[01:20:57] Eldar: But in the world of art, you can get away with a lot of misinterpretations. 

[01:21:02] Toliy: If there...

[01:21:02] but it but it starts with your desire of things to begin with. 

[01:21:05] Eldar: But in the world of art, it's very ambiguous- 

[01:21:08] Toliy: And subjective ... 

[01:21:09] Eldar: and subjective, therefore you get away with, a lot of times you'll just interpret it the way you wanna interpret things, and- Yeah ... you just move 

[01:21:15] Toliy: along. No, but there's no consequences, like, for y- 

[01:21:17] Eldar: This is what I'm saying

[01:21:18] for 

[01:21:18] Toliy: yourself. Yeah. 

[01:21:19] Eldar: Yeah Yeah, so what is- It's a made up world ... 

[01:21:20] Toliy: yeah, but he's talking about results. 

[01:21:22] Eldar: Yeah, he got the result- Right? ... that he wanted. Yeah, he's, "I just got the result 

[01:21:24] Toliy: I wanted," yeah. The result- But he's 

[01:21:26] Eldar: interpreted correctly for himself. Correct, subjectively. 

[01:21:28] Toliy: Yeah. So, 

[01:21:29] Eldar: so- Does not necessarily mean- Yeah, it's subjective

[01:21:30] that the world makeup- yeah ... is actually that. He, j- just that- Yeah ... painting and the way he interacted with that painting- Yeah. Yeah ... is subjectively correct for his desire. That's it. 

[01:21:38] Dave: That's 

[01:21:39] Toliy: it. Yeah. Which, yeah, which is okay. Yeah. 

[01:21:40] Eldar: Which is okay. You give him a pass for that. But that's not 

[01:21:41] Dave: mental illness or anything like this.

[01:21:43] It's just- 

[01:21:43] Toliy: Well, no it, it- 

[01:21:44] Eldar: Well, no how, 

[01:21:45] Dave: how- It's not, it's 

[01:21:45] Eldar: not objective ... no, no, I, I, it might not be mental illness, it might be a gift. How often can you do this? Yeah. 

[01:21:50] Toliy: How often, yeah. 

[01:21:52] Dave: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I, I mean, you should live in a museum. I actually, that's what I love about Charleston, there's so many art galleries.

[01:21:59] Toliy: Yeah, like can you, can you have, for example- We, we 

[01:22:00] Dave: have an art walk ... 

[01:22:01] Toliy: can you have a solar client, and like, they want you to t- to t- to take off their system and put it back on, and you just, like, said that, and you just said that, like, "Hey, I'm gonna interpret it today like this. I'm just gonna take it off and not put it back on."

[01:22:13] Dave: Yeah. Yeah, 

[01:22:14] Toliy: you can- You know? You can't live and you're not gonna be able to function in that kind 

[01:22:17] Dave: of- Again, but that's profitability ... reality. That's, yeah, that, that's like- Well- ... I'm not gonna be... it's not, I'm not gonna have a good profitable business- Well, well, no, I- ... if I keep making these mistakes ... well- Because their result and their goal- 

[01:22:26] Eldar: No, what he's saying is that the interpretation, the way the client is interpreting a very specific outcome, and you have to align.

[01:22:32] You can't just- Yeah ... come over there and be like- If you wanna 

[01:22:33] Dave: participate in that ... "

[01:22:34] Eldar: Today I'm gonna look at it as art- Yeah ... and I'm just gonna do whatever the fuck I want." Yeah. Yeah, 

[01:22:36] Dave: no, I have to, I have to fall in line with what the customer wants- You see? ... 'cause he's coming to my business to get my service.

[01:22:42] Eldar: And if you don't interpret that- And if, yeah ... the right way, you're gonna have static. 

[01:22:45] Dave: Well, yes, yes. But that's like, yeah, it's very, it's, it's a very, like- Very direct way 

[01:22:50] Eldar: Yeah 

[01:22:51] Dave: Right? There's, there, there's no like, you know, someone will say to me probably quite clearly in their communication, "Hey, I live in this place and I have a leak, and this leak is terrible.

[01:23:04] My roof is leaking. I can't have a good life. I'm suffering," whatever it is. And they'd be like, "I'm calling you because I found a roofer, and all you need to do now is just take the panels off so I can stop this freaking leak." 

[01:23:17] "

[01:23:17] Dave: Yes, sir." 

[01:23:18] Toliy: I hope you're not gonna just meditate and the leak is gonna stop 

[01:23:21] Dave: No, no.

[01:23:23] I'm not just gonna meditate. I'd be like, "Yes, sir." Yeah. That's what I would do. 

[01:23:26] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:23:27] Dave: And it's pretty, it would be obvi- it'd be kind of obvious in that case how to interpret that because- Yeah ... there was a story, there was like, this guy's obviously got some pain and wants a specific result, and he's clearly communicated his specific result- Yeah

[01:23:42] he wants. And I'm obliging and helping him out on his result. 

[01:23:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:23:47] Dave: Which was- 

[01:23:48] Eldar: Well, we have an example where these types of things- Mm. Yeah ... not necessarily as clear as, as we thought they were. 

[01:23:53] Mike: Yes. 

[01:23:54] Eldar: We're not gonna get into that. But the 

[01:23:54] Mike: thing is, is, is does i- interpretation require- 

[01:23:58] Eldar: Uh-huh ... 

[01:23:58] Mike: that you have all the facts or is that not necessary?

[01:24:02] No. It's not a requirement, no. It's not a requirement, 

[01:24:03] Eldar: no. You can interpret whatever choice you want. 

[01:24:05] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah, 

[01:24:05] Eldar: yeah. Who gives a fuck? Go ahead, interpret anything you want right now. Yeah. Doesn't mean you're gonna get it right. 

[01:24:10] Mike: Mm. 

[01:24:10] Eldar: Yeah. But- 

[01:24:11] Mike: What if you in- what if you interpreted it the right way- 

[01:24:13] Eldar: Uh-huh ... 

[01:24:14] Mike: but the result came out not the right way?

[01:24:16] What does that mean? How is that possible? 

[01:24:19] Eldar: Well, 

[01:24:19] Mike: let's say there's more than one person involved in an equation. Like, let's say me and you have a c- like a contractual thing. Yeah. Like, "I'm gonna give you $100." 

[01:24:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:26] Mike: You said you're gonna pay me back next month. 

[01:24:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:29] Mike: Right? 

[01:24:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:24:30] Mike: Month passes, I'm waiting for my money.

[01:24:33] You're like, "Oh, I'm 

[01:24:34] Eldar: sorry. I forgot." Did you not, did you not, did you not account that that's a possibility that I won't give you

[01:24:38] the money back? 

[01:24:39] Mike: Is 

[01:24:39] Eldar: that, i- is that 

[01:24:40] Mike: accounting for that? That's a- Is that also interpretation? Well, 

[01:24:42] Eldar: you 

[01:24:42] Toliy: have to. Well, that's the whole point, is that the best contracts- 

[01:24:44] Eldar: The 

[01:24:44] Mike: reason 

[01:24:45] Eldar: why- No, 

[01:24:45] Mike: no, no, no. I'm talking about is that still interpretation? It is. Of course. That's part of the gig. That, that's like fortune-telling.

[01:24:52] Well, no, 

[01:24:55] Toliy: it's not. No. That's, that's part of life. That's prediction. You just... No, no, but you, but you just said that- But why'd you set up the contract in the first place? Yeah. You said that there's a contract, right? 

[01:24:59] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:24:59] Toliy: But the whole point of having a good- No, 

[01:25:00] Mike: I said we, I said we made an agreement, but sure.

[01:25:02] We... Oh, yeah, yeah, we did say contract, yes. Okay. Yeah. 

[01:25:05] Toliy: The- 

[01:25:06] Mike: We just had this ... the 

[01:25:06] Toliy: whole point of a good contract- Yeah, I know ... is to remove a lack of interpretation. It's to remove interpretation. Okay, 

[01:25:11] Mike: but what happens when the person doesn't follow the contractual agreement? Well, then, 

[01:25:13] Toliy: well, then there's, there's- Consequences, yeah

[01:25:17] penalties, yeah. Preach. For sure. Yeah. There's 

[01:25:17] Mike: consequences built into the- But is that my fault, that I didn't interpret that? Or, like, how does that work? What, what 

[01:25:20] Toliy: do you mean that, 

[01:25:22] Mike: that's your fault- There, there should, there should be like- ... that you didn't interpret it? The person didn't pay on time.

[01:25:24] Toliy: Okay. 

[01:25:24] Mike: Is that a- But who, 

[01:25:26] Toliy: who are you? ... 

[01:25:27] Mike: bad interpretation? The... Who... Wait, who are you? The person- I'm the person who lent the money. 

[01:25:28] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. 

[01:25:29] Mike: And a month later, I didn't get my money. Yeah. Yeah. Did I interpret it pr- wrong? No. 

[01:25:33] Toliy: No. 

[01:25:33] Mike: You should have us offering the consequences, though. Yeah, he probably has, like, 

[01:25:36] Toliy: late fees- Well, no, but, but, but, no, but that's part of the agreement, right?

[01:25:37] in 

[01:25:37] Mike: his 

[01:25:39] Toliy: contract. There, there's a chance that- Yeah ... be- because if you were gonna get paid back 100%, or if you don't get paid back, there would be no point of any agreements. Yeah. 

[01:25:47] Eldar: In the contract. So first of all- There would be like late fees and... Yeah ... you are assuming, you are assuming that the person will- 

[01:25:51] Toliy: Right No

[01:25:51] you know, hold his arg- 

[01:25:52] Eldar: uh, bargain. You 

[01:25:52] Toliy: are, no, you are not assuming. That, that's the reason why you have an agreement- Oh, p- yes, even that ... is because- Yeah, that's right ... you are f-... the, the bank, for example- If you- Yeah ... they loan you money, right? Mm-hmm. If you don't pay me back. And you s- yeah. You, and you sign a contract saying, "Hey, if you don't pay this bill on time, there's 15% APR."

[01:26:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:26:07] Toliy: Yeah. "And if you don't pay that, eventually you're gonna get put in collections." Yeah. "And if you don't pay any of that- 

[01:26:11] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:26:12] Toliy: your credit score is gonna get dumped." The, the, these are the consequences that are outlined- Yeah ... and the banks also assume the responsibility that, "Hey, we have a certain amount of people that don't pay back this debt ever."

[01:26:21] Yeah. Yeah, of course. But obviously they're in business because they have enough- 

[01:26:24] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:26:24] Toliy: paid back debt, they have enough interest gained. Yeah. They already know that this is a profitable business, right, forever. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So they're not assuming that anyone's gonna pay them back. They're, they have contracts and they have agreements in place that they probably actually prefer for you not to pay them back.

[01:26:38] Eldar: Like gyms. 

[01:26:39] Toliy: Mm-hmm. They prefer- So they, they, they- ... not for you not to work out at them. 

[01:26:42] Eldar: Yeah. The best interpreter- It's dependent, yeah ... yeah, the best interpreter is to be able to, look

[01:26:50] Toliy: Yeah, yeah, to 

[01:26:51] Eldar: understand how things work Get all your, get all your angles covered. 

[01:26:53] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:26:53] Dave: Mm-hmm. 

[01:26:54] Toliy: Yes. And you can only really do that by thinking deeply and- 

[01:26:57] Eldar: Yes ... 

[01:26:58] Toliy: meditating and, you know, having 

[01:27:00] Eldar: podcasts and- Find, find the details. Find 

[01:27:02] Toliy: the details. Casinos, right? Yeah. They, they, they have a book. The underdogs win, right?

[01:27:06] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:07] Toliy: They know this stuff. Yeah. Look, this person could upset. Yeah. It's possible. 

[01:27:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:10] Toliy: But they also already have a really big interpretation in place that over time- 

[01:27:14] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:27:14] Toliy: they're gonna win. Yeah, see, I think that- The house wins, right? I think that the word interpretation 

[01:27:17] Mike: confuses me. I don't like the word interpret.

[01:27:19] I can't draw, like I can't get forward. Yeah. Yeah, I complete- Okay, Dave, help him 

[01:27:21] Toliy: please. I complete, yeah. It's, 

[01:27:23] Dave: you're just, you're, 

[01:27:23] Mike: you're- You can't say that the... Like to me, the casinos- Yeah ... interpreted that the- No, they, that- ... the, the dogs. No, I don't, I don't like- Could, could- Disagree. Yeah ... casinos interpret what?

[01:27:32] Like they thought deeply about it and they- Like the way you said it made, it didn't make sense to me. One second, one second. Yeah, yeah. They analyzed it. Yeah. 

[01:27:36] Toliy: Maybe. Yeah, they analyzed. Casinos have interpreted, right? Let's just say like a live casino, right? I don't think, I don't like the word interpret- 

[01:27:41] Mike: Uh-huh

[01:27:42] Toliy: at all. Okay. It's like, like, like, like a live, um, casino- Uh-huh ... right? Yeah Like, like, you know, where you play blackjack and all that. 

[01:27:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:27:47] Toliy: They have interpreted that- 

[01:27:49] Mike: Did they calculate it or they interpreted it? 

[01:27:52] Toliy: Calculated. See? One and one here. 

[01:27:53] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:27:54] Toliy: No, no, they calculated it. Interpretation is like a form of thinking.

[01:27:57] Mike: No, they calculated. 

[01:27:58] Toliy: And a calculation is a form of thinking, right? 

[01:28:00] Dave: Yeah, I don't like the 

[01:28:01] word 

[01:28:01] Mike: interpretation. I, I wouldn't say like, "Oh, yeah." Yeah. Uh, I would never use that word. Ever. Nah. But that's me. I don't, I don't... But it's just, it's just semantics. No, but the, but the inability, 

[01:28:08] Toliy: the inability to interpret- 

[01:28:10] Mike: Uh-huh

[01:28:10] Toliy: right, is the downfall of everything. 

[01:28:13] Mike: No, but there's d- there's different words for different reasons, 

[01:28:16] Dave: right? You use calculations. Yeah. You can use 

[01:28:18] Mike: analyzing. There's a lot 

[01:28:18] Dave: of words that 

[01:28:20] Toliy: mean the same thing but have different applications. No, but, no, but a calculation is a form of interpretation 

[01:28:24] Dave: I don't think so, man.

[01:28:25] I think, I think you, I think you interpret a perception. You have 

[01:28:31] Mike: a perception- Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure if it's like a, a- Let's, let's h- let me help 

[01:28:34] Dave: you guys then. Let me- Yeah. 

[01:28:35] Toliy: Perception is also 

[01:28:36] Dave: an interpretation. You have a, you have a perception on a matter, and you've interpreted- 

[01:28:40] Mike: Interpretation is a subjective thing, right?

[01:28:44] Interpretation is the f- Well, if you calculate, is a, is a mathematical calculation a subjective thing? 

[01:28:48] Toliy: So in, in interpretation is, like, your, It's, so ev- everyone has their own ownership of their ability or inability to interpret. So it's their, like- 

[01:28:58] Eldar: Your understanding- 

[01:28:59] Toliy: Yeah, yeah, yeah ... of something.

[01:29:00] They're both, their understanding. Mm. 

[01:29:01] Dave: Understanding is better, is a better 

[01:29:03] Toliy: word- Right ... than 

[01:29:03] Dave: interpretation. 

[01:29:04] Eldar: Bias is studying one or the other, I think. Let's- Yeah ... let's find this definition. Yeah, find it. Okay. 

[01:29:08] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:29:09] Eldar: Interpretation is the act of explaining, reframing, or demonstrating an understanding of something.

[01:29:17] Dave: Yes. 

[01:29:18] Eldar: It is the process of deciphering- Yes ... meaning- 

[01:29:21] Dave: Yes ... 

[01:29:21] Eldar: whether it involves translating spoken language, analyzing data, or expressing an artistic performance 

[01:29:31] Dave: Yeah. 

[01:29:31] Mike: So it's definitely subjective, 

[01:29:34] Eldar: right? Absolutely. Yes. Yes, it's, it's- Yes, 

[01:29:36] Toliy: absolutely ... 

[01:29:37] Eldar: yes. 

[01:29:37] Mike: Well, yeah, we're not arguing about it being subjective or not.

[01:29:40] Yeah. I just don't, uh, 

[01:29:41] Eldar: I don't know, understand the w- the word is So it, it's the act of explaining or reframing and demonstrating your understanding of something. 

[01:29:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:29:49] Eldar: "Hey, Mike, we just looked at this thing, this situation, right?" Mm-hmm. "We have a problem." 

[01:29:53] "

[01:29:53] Eldar: How do you interpret it?" Then Eldar, how do I interpret it?

[01:29:56] I interpret it this way. You interpret it your way. Your results of interpretation will yield X amount of emotions- Mm-hmm ... and this type of emotion. Mm-hmm. My interpretation is yielding this type of emotion. Yes. People for example- And then we can agree, disagree, and,

[01:30:10] Dave: I think that, I think that what you're talking about now is group think, and the idea of, like, having a, uh, team of people that thinks together, and- 

[01:30:22] Eldar: Well, that's what I think what we're trying to do here- Yeah

[01:30:24] is interpret, uh, the reality or truth- Together ... or together. 

[01:30:26] Dave: Yeah, to, 

[01:30:26] Toliy: to figure out the actual truth. 

[01:30:30] Eldar: Objective truth. 

[01:30:30] Toliy: Objective 

[01:30:31] Eldar: truth. So then we don't have to say, you know, this is open to interpretation here. 

[01:30:34] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:30:34] Eldar: We're definitely trying to get away from the subjective- 

[01:30:36] Toliy: No, yeah ... and find the objective ... and people's interpretat- i- interpretations can lead them into, like, good or bad scenarios.

[01:30:41] If someone gets cut off in the real- like, if you get cut off in the road, you could be like, "All right," like, "Fuck, fuck this guy," or like- Yeah, you could have- ... whatever, right? ... different situations, definitely. Some people, you could get cut off, they're gonna follow that person and kill them. 

[01:30:52] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:30:53] Toliy: They interpret that like, "Yo, this person's trying to fuck them over."

[01:30:56] Eldar: On 

[01:30:56] Toliy: purpose. "This person's doing this on purpose." That's their interpretation 

[01:30:59] Eldar: of it. I mean, this happens all the time- 

[01:31:00] Dave: Yeah ... 

[01:31:01] Eldar: on, on the road. 

[01:31:01] Dave: Yeah. Well, I mean, there's also a lot of psychology that goes into that in terms of, like, um, triggers. You know, you could interpret whatever that happened as something that's triggering to you.

[01:31:13] So I mean, there's just so many aspects of that that are very subjective and yeah. 

[01:31:19] Eldar: But that's not necessarily mean that you're correct in interpreting the world or, and the surroundings. 

[01:31:23] Dave: Correct. Yeah. 

[01:31:24] Eldar: Right? Because, 

[01:31:24] Dave: for 

[01:31:24] Eldar: example- Just because somebody cut you off does not mean that they did that on purpose.

[01:31:27] They probably had to go, go take a shit. 

[01:31:29] Dave: Yeah. 

[01:31:29] Eldar: Or they have a, a woman who's giving birth in the backseat. 

[01:31:32] Dave: Yeah. 

[01:31:33] Toliy: You know what I'm saying? So it's like, yeah. 

[01:31:33] Eldar: So you could come out like, "Ah," start yelling. You're like, "Oh, shit, she's giving birth in the backseat." You know what I mean? I think the, 

[01:31:37] Toliy: I think the next thing is context, then.

[01:31:39] Eldar: I mean, that's the, that's 

[01:31:40] Toliy: the whole thing. But that's the thing, is that too many interpretations are made without proper context. That's why those misinterpretations- Happen in the first place ... happen to begin with, and the ability to, like, think to begin with. Because- 

[01:31:51] Eldar: Sometimes you have to say, "I'm not allowed," or, "I'm not gonna allow myself to interpret this because I don't have enough variables that are present that I see that there."

[01:32:00] "Why would I make this interpretation right now? Because this is gonna get me in trouble." 

[01:32:03] Toliy: Yeah. "

[01:32:04] Eldar: So I'm not gonna react here." Um, I'm, I mean, I'm suffering from that now. You guys are saying, "Hey- 

[01:32:09] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[01:32:09] Eldar: you might be misinterpreting the situation that, that we're having with the contract completely the wrong way."

[01:32:14] You know what I mean? They're challenging me to say, "Hey, pause that. I'm making my conclusions already for my own reasons." Yeah. They have their own reasons, and I'm obviously trying to find the middle way and not getting stressed because of that. 

[01:32:26] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:32:27] Eldar: Who's right? Who's wrong? The jury's still out. 

[01:32:29] Toliy: Yeah, interpretation is everything.

[01:32:30] For example, let's just say David is someone that makes a lot of money. 

[01:32:34] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:32:34] Toliy: Right? He could walk into a room and he could say, like, "Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm extremely s- succ-" Sorry, why 

[01:32:40] Eldar: do you, why do you say pr- let's pretend? 

[01:32:41] Toliy: What? 

[01:32:42] Eldar: Dave does make a 

[01:32:42] Toliy: lot of money. No, I, no, I, no, I said potentially. 

[01:32:44] Eldar: Oh, okay, cool.

[01:32:45] Toliy: Um, like potentially- Oh ... if he's someone that makes a lot of money- 

[01:32:47] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:32:48] Toliy: for example- 

[01:32:48] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:32:49] Toliy: right? He could walk into a room- I already am ... and say, a- and say, "Hey, guys-" I'm super successful. And those people will be like, "Oh, wow, yeah." And they're, and they could be like, "Oh yeah, he's successful. Look at that Ferrari he has in the- 

[01:33:01] Eldar: Mm-hmm.

[01:33:02] Yeah ... 

[01:33:02] Toliy: in the parking lot," right? 

[01:33:03] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:33:04] Toliy: And then he could walk into another room of philosophers, for example- Mm-hmm ... and he could say that, and if his currency is- Ferrari ... the way that he's using the word success- 

[01:33:13] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:33:13] Toliy: is what he has financially, those philosophers might ask him, like, "Hey, how's your relationship with your family?"

[01:33:18] Eldar: Mm. "

[01:33:18] Toliy: How's your relationship with your wife?" 

[01:33:20] Eldar: How's your relationship with yourself? 

[01:33:21] Toliy: Yeah. How's the relationship with yourself? How stressed are you? Yeah, but- And then people start saying- How many hours of sleep you get, right? Yeah, but so they're, they might not interpret that David is a successful person.

[01:33:28] No, but that's 

[01:33:29] Mike: a different value system and a different currency. It can... No, that, no, it is what it is. Yeah, very, very, very. Yeah. 

[01:33:31] Toliy: Yes, that's interpretation. I can't 

[01:33:34] Mike: jump 

[01:33:34] Dave: over it. 

[01:33:35] Mike: Nah, I gotta pee, but I can't jump over it. 

[01:33:37] Eldar: What's his problem, Dave? So you can't see this. I'm gonna use the value of currency.

[01:33:38] I... He's throwing a fucking fit. I agree with you. I gotta pee, but I- No, no, I... Mike, I you can pee for sure. You don't gotta die. I, I agree with him, yeah. Yeah. He, he- Yeah, we'll be 

[01:33:45] Dave: here. 

[01:33:45] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah, I agree with him though. Makes sense. 

[01:33:48] Toliy: Yeah, interpretation to me is everything. 

[01:33:49] Dave: I mean, it just, it, it's not... it's just- Well, I mean, I don't know what the- It's every- Well, I don't know what 

[01:33:54] Eldar: Mike had a 

[01:33:54] Dave: problem with Toliy's example

[01:33:55] his whole thing, his thing is 

[01:33:56] Toliy: like- Yeah, my example to me is spot on there. 

[01:33:57] Dave: No. Well, yeah. I mean- It's interpretation of it ... you're, you're talking about philosophers and you're talking about 

[01:34:01] Toliy: like- No, no, no, no. I'm talking about specifically interpretation. Be- because a smart, like, a per- But again, what is the result that you're looking for?

[01:34:09] No, but you 

[01:34:10] Eldar: used the word. The result is the... You used... For example, if you come into the room and you raise your hand and say, "Guys, I'm successful, I make X amount of money," right? So you're, so you're- Like, there's levels to that too. 

[01:34:18] Toliy: But y- yeah, there's just- 

[01:34:19] Eldar: So you, you actually are being not truthful in your statements.

[01:34:23] Toliy: Well, well that, no. But mainly it's because I interpret success different potentially than the person who's saying that they're successful because of their money. I could be like, "Hey, you're actually a loser." 

[01:34:32] Eldar: Yeah, like, then I if I'm, if I understand that success is very, let's just say, you know, defined as a very specific way, or let's just say subjective, just because you said those words, it's gonna play a factor in how I internalize- And then they're, they're going to-

[01:34:46] internalize your 

[01:34:46] Dave: reaction ... well, the other person... I mean, again, you, in that sense, you're trying to persuade and influence. No. Yes. 

[01:34:53] Toliy: No, you're, you're, you're- Because you- ... using a word, and people have an interpretation 

[01:34:56] Dave: of that word. No. No, you're using, you're trying to persuade and influence because what you just said before was that you go into a room and then they see a Ferrari outside, and the Ferrari's supposed to influence them and persuade them into thinking that you are the success.

[01:35:16] Toliy: No, that's 

[01:35:17] Dave: their- And they believe that success is a Ferrari- 

[01:35:20] Toliy: No, but that's 

[01:35:20] Dave: only because- ... so there's an alignment between what they believed to be successful, which is a Ferrari, and what you said. 

[01:35:27] Toliy: But that can only be true if their interpretation of success first is to be rich and have a Ferrari. That cannot exist without that.

[01:35:35] Dave: Yeah, but again, it's, it's about what you're trying to do. It's the result. 

[01:35:41] Toliy: Well, well no, I... where like for example, if I don't value that, I could actually close it and say, hey, like, "If you have a Ferrari, you're actually more, more likely to be a loser." 

[01:35:49] Dave: So you're strategically using language to influence the particular person in front of you, and you probably have done some research on this room previously to know that room A is full of people that are impressed by Ferraris.

[01:36:08] Room B is people impressed by philosophical things. Room C is people that get fucking boners from mulch. 

[01:36:15] Eldar: Yes. There's, so- I'm gonna be there by myself. 

[01:36:18] Dave: So there's all these different things that you've done previous research on, and you're coming prepared- No ... with all these different things. No, that's not what I'm 

[01:36:26] Toliy: saying.

[01:36:26] Dave: But no, but, but like that, that, that's kind of the idea, what we're getting at here. 

[01:36:29] Eldar: No, we're 

[01:36:30] Toliy: not getting... 

[01:36:30] Eldar: Because, oh- We're, we're 

[01:36:31] Toliy: saying that different- 

[01:36:32] Dave: You, you, you get what 

[01:36:32] Eldar: I'm saying though? 

[01:36:33] Toliy: No, no. 

[01:36:34] Eldar: No, I, he's- We're talking 

[01:36:34] Toliy: about- ... 

[01:36:35] Eldar: he's talking about like, he's still like what is the result? His question is, like, what is the result of your actions or whatever, right?

[01:36:40] Toliy: What... In, in, in what sense though? What do, what do you mean? 

[01:36:43] Eldar: That's what I'm saying, it's like i- interpretation 

[01:36:46] Dave: by itself is just neutral. 

[01:36:48] Toliy: No, no, it's not. 

[01:36:49] Dave: Yeah, because it's all based off... it's like concentration. What, concentration is not bad or good. What are you concentrating on? Interpretation is not bad or good.

[01:36:58] What are you interpreting? It's, it- Well, well no, interpretation is- ... it's a very neutral kind of thing. 

[01:37:02] Toliy: Is, is there... 

[01:37:03] Dave: Can you- It's n- it's neutral. What, what, what- Does, does misinterpreting 

[01:37:06] Toliy: have g- ... what's the result? Does, does misinterpreting have bad consequences? 

[01:37:11] Dave: Yes. No. 

[01:37:11] Toliy: They just have consequences. 

[01:37:13] Dave: Does, does, this...

[01:37:13] Toliy: And 

[01:37:14] Dave: which, which could be painful. Well, well, no, no, no, no. Which could be painful. There's con- there's concentrating things. Does concentrating on the wrong things have bad consequences? 

[01:37:23] Toliy: Concentrating on the wrong things? Absolutely. 

[01:37:25] Dave: Yeah, so it's neutral. 

[01:37:27] Toliy: Wait, why is it neutral? 

[01:37:28] Dave: Because concentration on the right things have good things, so concentration in and of itself- Well, well, that's-

[01:37:33] is not bad or good ... well, no, there's, no- ... it's how you're using it. Sure. And so- 

[01:37:37] Eldar: The gun 

[01:37:37] Dave: is 

[01:37:37] Eldar: not good or bad, it's in, in the 

[01:37:39] Dave: hands that, that the gun is in. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So interpretation is not good or bad, it's about how you're interpreting it It's neutral 

[01:37:45] In, in, in and of itself it's neutral The word interpretation, 

[01:37:47] Toliy: sure, but we're never going to use it without like a- Outside 

[01:37:50] Dave: of humans Yeah, without like- You have to have a subject- 

[01:37:52] Toliy: Yeah, 

[01:37:52] Dave: yeah

[01:37:52] using that, using that You're just 

[01:37:53] Toliy: saying 

[01:37:54] Dave: we- You just, seriously, everything just is 'Cause that's how, 'cause that's how you're using interpretation Well, no, I'm using- You're not connecting 

[01:37:59] Mike: it to a result. 

[01:38:00] Dave: You're constantly going back to just- 

[01:38:01] Mike: To 

[01:38:01] Dave: the result ... interpretation. 

[01:38:02] Mike: Well, no, I'm using it specifically in- No, but I'm just saying it's the, the interpretation with the value word- Uh-huh

[01:38:07] or with the currency word, then it changes things 

[01:38:09] Dave: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. 

[01:38:10] Toliy: Exactly. Yeah. But interpretation is a tool that you use to do something. It's an internal tool that you have- 

[01:38:16] ... 

[01:38:16] Toliy: To to understand, and if you're not able to operate it correctly- No, it, it, 

[01:38:20] Eldar: listen, interpretation's an act of explaining, reframing, or demonstrating an understanding of something 

[01:38:27] Toliy: 100%, and if you don't have the ability to do that properly- 

[01:38:30] Mike: Yeah, but, but that ties nothing into other things like value or currency 

[01:38:33] Toliy: Well, no, but you interpret those things.

[01:38:35] Those are all things in- No, these are the things you believe in No. Well, no, but you can't believe in a- What's your value system? Is it interpretation- No, but your value- ... or a value, or something 

[01:38:36] Mike: you believe in? 

[01:38:36] Toliy: Well, no, your va- 

[01:38:36] Mike: so, so your value system is not

[01:38:45] Toliy: a value system until you interpret things, then it becomes a value system 

[01:38:52] Mike: Mm-hmm. It, it's like saying- And those things that you 

[01:38:54] Toliy: value- Yeah ... 

[01:38:54] Mike: they're subjective or objective 

[01:38:57] Toliy: Th- those things that you value? 

[01:38:58] Mike: If they're true values, if they... 'Cause you're talking about philosophers. 

[01:39:02] Toliy: Well, no, I'm, I'm, I'm talking about all- 

[01:39:04] Mike: Things 

[01:39:04] Dave: that you value 

[01:39:04] Mike: are 

[01:39:05] Toliy: subjective, 

[01:39:05] Dave: though

[01:39:06] Mike: all things. Huh? 

[01:39:06] Dave: The answer is the things that you value are subjective to who you are and how you value things, 

[01:39:12] Mike: right? But- But actual value, if you, like, if you talk, y- the thing is, you framed it. 

[01:39:16] Toliy: Yeah 

[01:39:17] Mike: The philosophers, their value is not currency or something like that. 

[01:39:21] Toliy: Well, no, I'm saying that, like, I'm giving an example of one person.

[01:39:24] Mike: It's not that they're interpreting, is that they, that's not part of their belief system. They don't give a fuck about- 

[01:39:28] Toliy: Well, no, 

[01:39:29] Mike: but that- ... the Ferrari ... yeah. They're not interpreting the Ferrari. Yeah. They don't give a fuck about the 

[01:39:32] Toliy: Ferrari. Well, no, they're interpreting what that guy is saying 

[01:39:36] They're interpreting what that guy is saying, right?

[01:39:38] And to uh, again, to one person, this guy's saying he's successful, and the, let's say he has his reasons as to why he's, he says that he is successful- Hold on. He 

[01:39:48] Mike: said he was successful? 

[01:39:49] Toliy: No. No, I was just giving an example. I'm like, I, I, I said, for example, if Da- if, if- Mm-hmm ... if David wa- walked into one room- 

[01:39:57] Mike: Mm-hmm

[01:39:57] Toliy: and said that, "I'm successful, guys," right? Oh, he walked into his room and he said, "I'm successful." Okay, got it. Yes. Yeah. Right? Uh-huh. Then he walked into a different room. 

[01:40:05] If you, for example, you interpret life a different way and h- and you heard David say this, you might wanna be like, "Okay, let me pick this guy's mind and see how is he successful," right?

[01:40:15] But because you interpret success differently, you might view David as a loser. 

[01:40:22] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:40:22] Eldar: I don't think he's saying anything wrong. Yeah. 

[01:40:24] Right? 

[01:40:26] Mike: I think it's just, uh, the choice of words is just not, I, I don't understand it. Well, 

[01:40:29] Eldar: look do you like the definition? Interpretation is the act of explaining, reframing, demonstrating, and understanding of something.

[01:40:36] Yeah, like for ex- for example, 

[01:40:37] Mike: if you're- Yeah, the simple word is like you understand something. Interpreting is the way you understand something. 

[01:40:43] Eldar: And the thing is I, I agree also to a degree now with Dave that it's, as a kinda neutral. It's not ver- here or there, it's just like what you do. 

[01:40:51] Toliy: Well, no, the actual word is j- like- Yeah

[01:40:53] Mike: everything, 

[01:40:53] Toliy: it 

[01:40:54] Mike: just is. 

[01:40:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:40:54] Mike: But, 

[01:40:54] Toliy: you know, we- Yeah ... 

[01:40:55] Mike: we could just 

[01:40:55] Toliy: say that like, hey, like not- nothing is one way or the other, it just is. But when you start involving actual s- scenarios there, like, th- there is a, like- But those- ... a right or wrong. 

[01:41:06] Mike: Yeah, but those are like, again, that's like now you're changing the equation.

[01:41:09] Yeah. Well, I'm- And now it's not just interpretation. Yeah. Now there's other variables. 

[01:41:12] Dave: Yeah, you're changing the equation. 

[01:41:13] Toliy: Well, no, I'm saying the ability to interpret properly- Yeah ... or the ability, or the ability if, or if you're someone who misinterprets- Yeah ... that has consequences. Which is in the act, the act of explaining- Yes, that has consequences, right?

[01:41:23] making sense of something. Why do, for example, when we play in the basketball league- 

[01:41:27] ... 

[01:41:27] Toliy: And some people just like, including myself at times, you could just suck ass and just not play well, and, like you have a particular interpretation right there. Like, hey, this is an important thing. This is a big mo- moment.

[01:41:39] Many people are watching. There's referees. That's your interpretation of the situation, but there could be the same hoop, the same people playing with no referees- But you 

[01:41:48] Eldar: see, this 

[01:41:48] Toliy: is a- ... no importance on 

[01:41:49] Eldar: it ... this is an act of explaining something. So who are you explaining to? To yourself? 

[01:41:53] Toliy: Yes, it's your explanation of things.

[01:41:55] That's your compass. To yourself. That's how you operate. That's every- everything. 

[01:41:58] Dave: Yeah, but I 

[01:41:59] Eldar: think 

[01:41:59] Mike: that's- Yeah, but again- 

[01:42:00] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:42:00] Mike: the, it ca- I, I don't think it's a compass. I think- Yeah I mean, maybe not, I mean- How about perception? Can we change the word from p- interpretation to perception? Sure. Would... Same thing.

[01:42:10] Dave: Sure. It was... Well, I think you're, you're percep- Okay, a- and anyway, the, in that example, it's the interpretation of measurement. Yeah like you, it, like if you just go to a basketball game and you say, "I just wanna make three shots in. That's my-" Goal. "... goal." 

[01:42:27] Toliy: Okay. 

[01:42:27] Dave: That's how you're measuring your success.

[01:42:29] Okay. Three shots. 

[01:42:29] Toliy: Okay. 

[01:42:30] Dave: Now- You would have to have some information before that To know that these people are expecting me to get 30 in, 'cause it's a big game. You 

[01:42:46] Toliy: get what I'm trying to s- But I don't understand how that, how, how that links You get what I'm 

[01:42:47] Dave: trying to 

[01:42:48] Toliy: say? No. In this example, no. I don't see 

[01:42:50] Dave: how that- You, you said something about a basketball game, right?

[01:42:53] You 

[01:42:53] Toliy: said s- Well, no, I gave an example of that, like, when the lights are... Like, i- if you're inter- ... these games, whether we're playing a pickup game or a game with referees- So you're playing a pickup game ... it's... Yeah, a pickup game- So you- ... no referees- No one- ... no one's in the gym except the players who, who are playing, some people could play really well.

[01:43:10] And then you have that same players, same exact group of players, but you throw some fans watching, referees, a score table, right? Jerseys- Some 

[01:43:20] Mike: cameras ... 

[01:43:20] Toliy: cameras- So you're talking- ... and now you could just suck, but it's the same thing. No, 

[01:43:24] Mike: but you're t- I don't know if you can use, like, the word interpret- Yeah

[01:43:27] for action things. Like, "Oh, I interpreted this basketball game." 

[01:43:30] Toliy: Yeah, 

[01:43:31] Mike: I don't 

[01:43:31] Eldar: think you can. No, but that's what's happening. No, n- I don't 

[01:43:32] Mike: think ... 

[01:43:32] Eldar: Yeah, I don't think you can. He... Well, that's why I asked him the question, like, the interpretation, the way the, the definition is that it's an act of explaining- Yes.

[01:43:39] It's 

[01:43:39] Mike: not an act of doing. Correct. You're 

[01:43:41] Eldar: not gonna say, like, "Oh, I just, I interpreted the Knicks game." Well, he's saying that you actually do this in t- But that's why I asked him that, and he said you internally interpreting this into the world. 

[01:43:48] Mike: Yes. It's not an act of doing. Yeah. It's not an act of doing.

[01:43:51] It's not an act of doing, no. Yes. It's an act of speaking. He's, he's 

[01:43:52] Eldar: not... Yeah, yeah. 

[01:43:53] Mike: Or analyzing. Yeah. You're not gonna say, "I just interpreted the Knicks game." 

[01:43:56] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Well, 

[01:43:57] Toliy: well, of course not. 

[01:43:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:43:59] Eldar: Yeah, but I'm not saying 

[01:43:59] Mike: that. 

[01:44:00] Eldar: Because, because 

[01:44:00] Mike: it's a, this act of doing. Yeah. 

[01:44:02] Eldar: That's what I'm saying. But that's what he's, but he's also saying that, look, a lot of times, the way we speak, the way we do things is the reason why we say these things in the first is because we've interpreted the world- Yes

[01:44:12] in such a way internally, and that's why we fucking- 

[01:44:15] Toliy: And your, your actions only happen after... Your interpretation happens before action. 

[01:44:21] Eldar: Yes. And then you kinda have to explain into the world, right? Bring in, like, what have you found, and whether or not you do the right thing or not. I don't know. It's...

[01:44:28] Yeah. 

[01:44:28] Toliy: Yeah. You do things, for example, subconsciously, that you interpreted- Mm-hmm ... many, many dif- dif- different things, and now you've downloaded that information, and now it lives inside of you. Mm-hmm. And that's part of who you are, and you don't ha- really have to, like, think about things. 

[01:44:41] Dave: Mm-hmm. 

[01:44:41] Toliy: But there could be a time where I'm like I could come to you and say, like, hey, Mike, can you read this and tell me what do you think?"

[01:44:47] Well, now you need to interpret it. Mm-hmm. And then once you interpret it, you're then- Yeah ... going to speak what, what, the... You're gonna answer my question. Yeah. Yeah. Right? But- Sure. 

[01:44:55] Eldar: What you understand- 

[01:44:56] Toliy: Yes ... on the matter. So I could also take that same thing and give it to David and have David read it.

[01:45:00] Mm-hmm. Yeah. He is then gonna interpret it- Sure ... and give me a, maybe a different answer completely. 

[01:45:05] Eldar: Yeah, potentially. 

[01:45:06] Toliy: Sure. Yeah. Most likely. Sure, yeah. Like, for example if I tell you, like, "Hey, Mike I have a lot on my plate, and, um, you know, I'm str- I'm struggling with this," or, like, "I can't seem to figure out this," based on your interpretation of life and what to do, you are going to give me a particular set of things that you maybe recommend- Mm-hmm

[01:45:23] or start asking me particular questions. Yeah. That based off of your interpretation of- What to do and how to live I 

[01:45:29] Dave: think there's just multiple 

[01:45:29] Toliy: variables Yeah There's multiple variables in this And if I go to Davis and I tell him that same thing- Mm-hmm. He might tell me, "Hey, you just need to meditate more."

[01:45:36] Dave: Mm-hmm. 

[01:45:36] Toliy: Because he might value, for example, he, the way that he interprets life is that, like, hey, if you wanna solve some of these things you need to meditate more. 

[01:45:43] And maybe I go to someone else who's in a gang and- Can you come to me? Yeah. And they'll be like, "Yo, you gotta join the Crips." 

[01:45:50] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:45:50] Toliy: You want, you, you need brotherhood, you need this, you need that.

[01:45:53] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:45:53] Toliy: Based on how that person interprets life. Mm-hmm. So your actions are all happening as a result of your interpretation. So then you're using the word interpretation as a general thing of how we perceive the world. Cor- everything that 

[01:46:03] Mike: you do is a perception. Yeah, but the thing is, yeah, I just like- Perception.

[01:46:05] Toliy: That's, that's the issue ... 

[01:46:06] Mike: it's just that the word, it was- Yes ... like, it didn't sit with me. 

[01:46:09] Dave: Yes. Mis- I think he misused the word a little bit. 

[01:46:10] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:46:10] Dave: Yeah, and then I think if you're 

[01:46:12] Mike: gonna use- Well, I think, I think what he's saying- If you're, if 

[01:46:13] Dave: you're- But he explained 

[01:46:13] Toliy: it much 

[01:46:14] Dave: better just now Yeah, 

[01:46:14] Mike: yeah. Yeah. He did, much better If you're gonna 

[01:46:16] Dave: use the word perception, the next thing 

[01:46:17] Mike: is judgment.

[01:46:17] You could just... Yeah, I mean, like, it's your belief system, what you value. Like, uh- But 

[01:46:21] Toliy: all that, that only happens after you interpret 

[01:46:24] Mike: it. Yeah, I agree, but the way you phrased it, it's like you, like, uh, I don't know. Yeah. You, like, you shit and then you ate. 

[01:46:32] Toliy: Well, no, but for 

[01:46:32] Mike: ex- 

[01:46:32] Toliy: That's not how things work. Well, no, no.

[01:46:34] No, I- Well- No, I think it was the opposite. You were talking about actions and, be- before interpretations. 

[01:46:39] Dave: Mm-hmm. And I was trying 

[01:46:40] Mike: to say that first interpretation- No, initially when you used it, I didn't understand it that way. '

[01:46:44] Toliy: Cause 

[01:46:44] Mike: you 

[01:46:44] Toliy: might have misinterpreted me. 

[01:46:45] Mike: It's very possible. 

[01:46:46] Dave: Very possible. Yeah.

[01:46:47] So I think the, the other, the other, if you wanna go further on the topic of that idea, is that once you take in information, once you, take in different perspectives- Yeah then there's a judgment on the information. 

[01:47:00] Toliy: 100%. 

[01:47:01] Dave: Yeah. 

[01:47:02] Toliy: Yeah. 100. And now there's also judgment. For example, you could be climbing- And you could be up on top of that wall, and you may not continue 'cause you're like, "Yo, everyone's watching me."

[01:47:10] But judgment doesn't mean action. Or I, like, I'm gonna f- No, no. Like, you- your interpretation of the sit- situation could be completely off. 

[01:47:17] Dave: Mm-hmm. 

[01:47:17] Toliy: Where the people behind you, you, you might be like, "Everyone's staring at me." 

[01:47:20] Dave: Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think 

[01:47:21] Toliy: that the- But you don't even see it ... the main thing though is- You're just interpreting it

[01:47:23] th- this kind of scenario You have to get a- You know? You 

[01:47:26] Mike: gotta get a count how many words, times he used the word interpret today. Yeah, you have 

[01:47:29] Toliy: to count. 

[01:47:29] Mike: Now 

[01:47:29] Toliy: you're 

[01:47:30] Mike: just 

[01:47:30] Toliy: throwing- 

[01:47:30] Mike: The more problems we have with the word, the more I'm gonna use it ... if, if the, yo, we should have a counter. Yeah. 

[01:47:33] Dave: That'd 

[01:47:33] Mike: be so hilarious.

[01:47:34] How many times have you, uh, saw s- or been up there climbing and said, "I'm interpreting that, uh, people are watching me"? Please raise your hand. Never. Never. 

[01:47:40] Dave: Yeah. I, I love that. I love that. Who, who, 

[01:47:42] Mike: do you interpret life or you feel? Like, I- I'm just like, yeah, no 

[01:47:45] Dave: worries. 

[01:47:45] Toliy: Well, 

[01:47:45] Mike: no, first 

[01:47:45] Toliy: you interpret and then 

[01:47:46] Dave: you feel.

[01:47:47] I think that we should have a counter on how many times you said interpret. 

[01:47:50] Eldar: No. That'd be the funniest episode. Well, no, if you want us to make a point, like- That'd be the funniest episode ... I mean, you, you 

[01:47:54] Toliy: understand what I'm saying, though? 

[01:47:54] Eldar: I do, but y- like I said, I think that you misused it. No, I think that- Uh, the way...

[01:47:58] You confused, you confused- I think that we're undermining, we're 

[01:48:00] Toliy: undermining how much we, in general, we're explaining the w- the world. 

[01:48:04] Eldar: I understand what you're saying. We're constantly- No, so let me, let me say this again ... right? Interpretation is an act of explaining. Correct. And you explain the world- But most of the time, you explain the world to, like, Mike.

[01:48:13] How many times- I could tell, explain this to Mike. I could explain this to you ... how many times in your life have you spoken and said, "So yeah, I was interpreting my life-"

[01:48:20] Mike: and I think..." Yeah. 

[01:48:20] Eldar: Yeah. No, you, no, you don't say that. Nobody 

[01:48:22] Mike: speaks like that. 

[01:48:23] Eldar: Yes. But 

[01:48:23] Toliy: that, that, that, that's not what I'm saying. 

[01:48:25] Mike: Yeah, you, you said interpretation is how you- No ... interpret your own shit. 

[01:48:29] Toliy: No, 

[01:48:29] Mike: everything- The 

[01:48:29] conversations 

[01:48:30] Mike: you're having 

[01:48:30] Toliy: with 

[01:48:31] Mike: yourself ... 

[01:48:31] Toliy: everything, no. Everything that you learn in life, everything that you do- He says it starts there

[01:48:35] it starts with your interpretation of it. And then it becomes a part of who you are and how you operate. But before it did that, right? Mm-hmm. If you have- You're missing so many words, man. If, and before you- You 

[01:48:46] Mike: gotta read the dictionary or something, right? 

[01:48:47] Toliy: Yeah, you're missing, you gotta, you, you gotta read the 

[01:48:49] Dave: dictionary, bro.

[01:48:50] Toliy: Mono e mono. You're 

[01:48:51] Eldar: missing stuff. Mono e mono's dead, y'all. Fuck this joke. 

[01:48:53] Toliy: I, I, I really, really liked you in the beginning, 

[01:48:56] Eldar: man. I would 

[01:48:56] Toliy: love to understand where I'm 

[01:48:57] Eldar: wrong here. No, I, I, I get your point. I understood, you drove your point. Yeah. I just still think that you mis- misinter- misrepresented the word mis- misinterpret.

[01:49:04] Well, 

[01:49:04] Toliy: tell me how. 

[01:49:05] Eldar: Yeah. But because it's again, by definition, right? It's an act of of explaining. 

[01:49:11] Toliy: Okay. 

[01:49:12] Eldar: So like, and usually you don't go, like Mike said, internalize it, and internally you're like, "Okay, right now I'm interpreting this." No. 

[01:49:18] Toliy: No, but I'm not talking about it in real time. I'm saying that well f- f- well, first off- 

[01:49:22] Eldar: Okay, do you agree the fact that like, look, if you want my interpretation of something- Yeah

[01:49:25] I'm gonna have to give it to you. 

[01:49:28] Mike: You gonna show me something like, "Yeah, can you interpret this?" 

[01:49:29] Toliy: In, in that example, yes. But there's also- 

[01:49:31] Mike: You- But- Like, that's an easier example. You don't inter- you don't inter- how can you interpret your own shit? You just inter- you just- Like think about it or, yeah.

[01:49:38] You just think about it or process it. No, but the- But you would never say- No, you do do, I think that you do interpret stuff into- You, you process it, you analyze it, sure. Yeah. Any other word. Yeah. Any other word, yeah. But you don't say like, "All right, so I was interpreting what happened yesterday." No, but that's not what we are saying.

[01:49:51] Toliy: You say processing. You say processing information. Well, I'm not talking, I'm not talking about like being a retard and doing this process out loud. I'm talking about- 

[01:49:57] Mike: No, I'm giving the ex- I'm giving the explanation of how it sounds. 

[01:50:00] Toliy: It's demonstrating an understanding of something. Well, I'm trying to, I'm, I'm trying to explain it.

[01:50:02] Yeah. Everything that you do in life, it first starts with how you interpret, how you understand it, how you're able to explain it to yourself. This first happens, right? 

[01:50:13] Dave: Mm-hmm. 

[01:50:14] Toliy: Sure. And whether that's- Well, this, this 

[01:50:15] Eldar: definition is, like, outwardly. Yeah, no. He's saying that this, 

[01:50:17] Toliy: this process happens in- inwardly.

[01:50:19] Internally. Which then gives you- I agree with him. I think it does happen ... I agree, but not 

[01:50:21] Eldar: in an interpret way. 

[01:50:23] Toliy: You just gotta use different words, man. No, interpreting, which then gives you the ability, potentially, to properly or not properly interpret sit- situations. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right? Where, like, s- like, you could have a conversation with someone, and they're like, let's say three people are there.

[01:50:38] Two people are talking with one person. Those two people walk away, and they could be like, "Oh, that guy's a nice guy." And you could be looking at him and be like, "The fuck are you talking about? That guy's an asshole." Yeah. 

[01:50:46] Mike: No, but we're talking about specifically the one-on-one we're talking about. I get you know, we're having a conversation, three of us, and be like- Yeah

[01:50:52] "Yo, that guy's an idiot." You think this guy's the nicest guy in the world. 

[01:50:54] Toliy: Yeah, but those are two interpretations happening out- out loud. Give him a different word. Give him, 

[01:50:58] Mike: give him 

[01:50:58] Eldar: perceiving or something. 

[01:50:59] Mike: No, I don't care about- That'd be better. Uh, like, I'm okay with that. Like- 

[01:51:02] Toliy: Well, well, no- Well, watch, 

[01:51:03] Eldar: no, I think there's a better word for what he's 

[01:51:04] Mike: trying to say.

[01:51:05] Yeah, I think it's like you're- you're 

[01:51:06] Dave: saying different things, too. Like, you're just- you're, you're, you're- But I think interpretation does 

[01:51:09] Eldar: work, 

[01:51:09] Mike: too ... 

[01:51:09] Dave: you're bumbling. I feel like- 

[01:51:11] Toliy: No, interpretation is the right word ... 

[01:51:11] Dave: I feel like you're just bumbling up so many different things, bro. Uh, 

[01:51:14] Toliy: no, I, I, 

[01:51:16] Dave: I

[01:51:19] don't feel so. You're just bumbling up so 

[01:51:19] Mike: many different 

[01:51:20] Toliy: things. He's just bumbling. He's just bumbling. He's just bumbling up so many different things, bro. No, I, I think it... i, I see it. I, I just don't, don't see how it's not 

[01:51:23] Mike: the right thing. Well, we should ask AI, I think, 'cause we've been referencing it a lot.

[01:51:26] It could help. She, she or he 

[01:51:27] Toliy: can help us. Yeah, I, uh, my, my main point is that- Yeah, I get the point ... probably all the information- I think we all get the point ... and all the understandings you had- Let him drive it home, Dave ... it, it all starts, it, it, it all started with your ability to interpret things, and it all started with your interpretations of it.

[01:51:40] And then it became who you are and how you act and how you perceive things, right? But originally, when you originally first discovered something, right? Mm-hmm. Or you originally first discovered that, that, like, port- portion of it, you interpreted things in a particular way. Whether it was right or wrong is subject to, to, to- Mm-hmm

[01:51:58] to discussion. Whatever it was, you did that. Uh-huh. And then you live life, and then the actions- Mm-hmm ... follow from that. Now there could be a completely different l- a literal, like, in the moment way to interpret things, right? But it also... if I give you a document and I'm like, "Hey, here's a contract I'm about to sign," you have particular abilities to, like, read particular things and interpret it in particular ways.

[01:52:22] And you might tell me, "Hey, this agreement is, yeah, it sounds good. Like, I, I, I'd sign it," right? And then I give it to, for example, let's say I give it to the top lawyer in the country, right? Yeah. They would say, like, "Hey- All this is fucked up. I wouldn't even touch this with a mile away 

[01:52:37] Eldar: This word means that, this me- word means that.

[01:52:37] Th- yeah. Yeah. This is tying you to this. So there's just so many things here. You shouldn't do this. 

[01:52:37] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Because they int- they read the agreement, and their interpretation of what this says here- Yeah ... was completely different. 

[01:52:46] Dave: Yeah. You're, you're, you're, you're- That's 

[01:52:47] Toliy: because they're given- Yeah ... a set of skills- 

[01:52:49] Dave: Yeah

[01:52:50] Toliy: to maybe interpret what this is saying properly. 

[01:52:52] Dave: That's what I'm saying. Okay, so interpretation's one thing. I get- Dave 

[01:52:56] Eldar: took off his hat for this one. 

[01:52:57] Dave: Yeah. I, I 

[01:52:58] Eldar: like it. 

[01:52:58] Dave: Yeah. I got, I got your whole idea of interpretation. Yeah. All right, okay, 

[01:53:01] Eldar: explain 

[01:53:01] Dave: it to us. Com- completely get it. I understand it could be...

[01:53:04] But you're just, you're just- Allegedly. No, I understand it. I get it. M- just m- my issue is that you're just bumbling up a lot of other things. Bumbling. You're just bumbling up a lot of other things while you're talking about it. 

[01:53:16] Toliy: Like what? 

[01:53:16] Dave: Like in this example you just made, it's all about skills, actually.

[01:53:20] What you're looking for is skills. 

[01:53:22] Toliy: No, but 

[01:53:23] Dave: I'm saying if you- You're using, you're interpreting, interpreting, interpreting, interpreting, interpreting. Well, no, 

[01:53:25] Toliy: I'm saying that- But it's- ... interpretation is the skill- Well, it, it- ... of all skills. 

[01:53:29] Dave: It's- No, he might be right ... it's just, it's a, but you s- have a skill.

[01:53:33] You're just, you're just, you're, you're, you're trying to blend every single thing in the world- Well, maybe- ... for this one fucking word ... no, but maybe he's trying to 

[01:53:38] Eldar: make it simplified for everyone. 

[01:53:40] Dave: No, but- 

[01:53:40] Toliy: No, it's not even that.

[01:53:46] The, all of these things- You're, you're- They're, all of these things- You shouldn't be doing that ... interpretation is the skill. No, you 

[01:53:47] Eldar: shouldn't be 

[01:53:47] Toliy: doing that, 

[01:53:47] Eldar: man. And if, if you have- Everything he, what he's saying is that everything's up to interpretation. 

[01:53:50] Toliy: No, I'm saying if you're, if you're- He's 

[01:53:51] Eldar: saying when you go to college, you don't go for education, you go for interpretation.

[01:53:54] Exactly. Yeah. It's just like- ... yeah, 

[01:53:55] Toliy: you're just- No, but you're right. 

[01:53:56] Eldar: You're trying, you're just, you're trying 

[01:53:57] Toliy: to make- Yeah, 

[01:53:57] Eldar: I agree ... 

[01:53:57] Toliy: everything the word interpretation. It's, it's just like, it is it, like- 

[01:54:00] Dave: Yeah, you're trying to 

[01:54:00] Toliy: simplify everything into the interpretation ... is, is, is your ability to interpret or not interpret correctly Is that the heavy variable of whether you will succeed or not, for example, in college?

[01:54:10] Yes, of course. Yes, of course. That's what I'm saying. Of course. That's what I'm saying. Yes. So if you can't interpret properly- Yes ... you're not going to get it. Or if you can, you will, and that's, that's why the ability to interpret is the number one skill here. 

[01:54:23] Eldar: Okay, so let me conclude this. 

[01:54:24] Toliy: Okay. 

[01:54:25] Eldar: I'll put a bow 

[01:54:25] Toliy: on it.

[01:54:26] Eldar: Yes. If you don't have the ability to interpret- 

[01:54:28] Toliy: You're fucked ... 

[01:54:29] Eldar: you will have more pain. 

[01:54:30] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:54:31] Eldar: If you have the ability to interpret, you most likely will have less pain. Okay. Okay? 

[01:54:37] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:54:37] Eldar: Thank you. You like that, 

[01:54:38] Toliy: Dave? Yeah, yeah. All right. No, that, that's correct. That's 

[01:54:40] Eldar: it. All right. Well, yeah. 

[01:54:41] Toliy: That's correct. 

[01:54:42] Eldar: Sure.

[01:54:43] I agree with you. 

[01:54:44] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I 

[01:54:45] Eldar: did not disagree but it's- 

[01:54:45] Toliy: But there's a lot of things that factor into all, all that, obviously. Of course, of course. But they're all, but they all stem from your ability to, like, it- it's almost like your ability to process information. If you can't do it properly, you're going to engrave improper variables or 

[01:55:00] Eldar: outcomes, right?

[01:55:00] Well, that's why, that's why, like interpreting the Bible, right? You c- they say that there's so many ways to interpret the Bible. Yeah. All these sacred texts, it's like you give it to this guy, he interprets this, he sees this. Mm-hmm. You give it to this guy, he sees this. What is happening there, right? 

[01:55:14] Toliy: Mm-hmm.

[01:55:14] Eldar: It's written in such a way where like, unless you have the individual... Uh, that's why I think philosophers are good at this kind of stuff, is because before they write anything, right? 

[01:55:25] Toliy: The text- 

[01:55:25] Eldar: You create a compass ... you create a compass. That's why 

[01:55:26] Toliy: there's a compass on a fucking map, 

[01:55:28] Eldar: right? Yes. 

[01:55:29] Toliy: When you show a map- They say-

[01:55:30] they say, "Hey, one inch is a thousand miles." Yes. This is what it is. 

[01:55:33] Eldar: That's it. 

[01:55:33] Toliy: You can't tell me it's 50 miles. 

[01:55:35] Eldar: Yes. '

[01:55:36] Toliy: Cause the compass says, says 

[01:55:37] Eldar: it. The philosophers say what? When I use the word this means that. 

[01:55:41] Toliy: Mm-hmm. And that's very important. 

[01:55:43] Eldar: Cor- cor- this is like, I studied philosophy. Yes. I know this.

[01:55:46] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:55:46] Eldar: They made sure, and every person- 

[01:55:48] Toliy: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:55:48] Eldar: every philosopher had their own little interpretation behind each word. 

[01:55:52] Dave: Yeah. 

[01:55:52] Eldar: So in order for them to drive their philosophy home- 

[01:55:55] Dave: Yeah ... 

[01:55:55] Eldar: you need to agree for that moment- 

[01:55:59] Dave: Yes. 

[01:55:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... to those definitions. 

[01:56:00] Dave: Yeah. 

[01:56:02] Eldar: And that's the right way of doing it. 

[01:56:03] Dave: Sure. 

[01:56:04] Eldar: Yeah.

[01:56:04] For sure. I think. You know what I mean? Otherwise, yeah, your compass is gonna be all off, and then you, you never gonna know where... That's why there's so many people who read the Bible one way. It's like, "Yo, turn the other cheek." Somebody reads this other way, "No, we gotta revenge." 

[01:56:17] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:56:18] Eldar: Who's right? Who's wrong?

[01:56:19] And let's just say if Jesus wrote it, he needs to be here like, "Guys, this is what I fucking meant. Enough." Mm-hmm. That's a problem. I think that's why philosophy's a little more difficult, because those motherfuckers actually thought these things through. 

[01:56:32] Toliy: Yes. To make s- And that angers people. That's why they don't fuck with philosophy, because they prefer the interpretation of things, to have their own opinions on things, and think what they wanna think, and that's it.

[01:56:41] Eldar: Oh, that's it. That's the final thought. Yeah. Fuck off. You hear what he just said? So you could continue to fucking live into your fucking ar- artsy- Yeah ... fartsy world, thinking that you- Yeah ... you manufactured that cloud. Stare, stare at 

[01:56:50] Toliy: your painting and, you know, have 

[01:56:52] Eldar: owners. Yeah. And get what you want. 

[01:56:53] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:56:53] Eldar: Mic drop. Mic drop. Thank you, guys. This was great.