215. Why do we stall?

Why do we constantly stall on our biggest goals, and what happens when the friends you count on to pull you out of the mud are stuck in the exact same trap?

In this raw and confrontational episode of the Dennis Rox Podcast, Eldar, Mike, and Toliy strip away the polite facades of self-improvement to expose the dark side of ambition, unheeded warnings, and team breakdown. The guys break down the deceptive mechanics of a failure to launch phase, revealing why your prolonged buffer zone isn’t a lack of motivation—it’s a massive backlog of unmanaged stress and hidden baggage.

But the conversation takes an explosive turn when the cameras look inward. Eldar calls out the crew for a massive professional compromise, forcing a brutal post-mortem on a recent property renovation disaster. They confront the agonizing reality of being completely right in principle, but utterly defeated in practice by a systemic lack of due diligence.

🌟 Most Insightful Moment

"If you're holding a cup, it's an empty cup, you can hold it for a while. But if you start adding water to it, how long can you hold that cup with an extended arm? Not so long... You have stress with you right now. You're holding. How long do you want to hold this shit?" — Eldar (quoting a powerful metaphor on emotional capacity)

Key Takeaways:

• The Deficit Trap: Why overwhelming yourself with big, exciting future announcements is actually a coping mechanism for being deeply depleted in the present.
• The Currency of Societal Clout: How the modern obsession with fast processing and immediate windfalls has completely destroyed the mindset mastery required for lifelong achievement.
• The Fluffy Bunny Paradox: The exact moment Eldar realized they were bringing high-level stoic philosophy into a corporate playground ruled by incompetent bad actors—and the critical mistake that cost them thousands.
• The Arrogance of Silent Suffering: Why keeping your struggles to yourself isn't protective—it’s an ego-driven trap that actively prevents personal growth.

If you are currently sitting in the gap between the life you want and the reality you’re experiencing, it is time to stop lying to yourself. The guys deliver a final, unvarnished blueprint on how to gracefully exit the buffer zone, reject the societal rat race, and implement an authentic mindset shift that triggers execution.

But a final, lingering question remains: When the dust settles on your strategic plans, are you genuinely tracking your progress, or are you just another selling-out rat secretly eating the forbidden apple?

Are you ready to stop bullshitting yourself and master your mindset? 👉 Join our inner circle at Dennis Rox to turn your failures to launch into definitive execution.

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form  - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Transcript

[00:00:00] Dennis: On this week's episode 

[00:00:02] Toliy: And the reality is that most people have a ton of desires, but they have too much stress and too much baggage that they're holding onto and too many responsibilities. 

[00:00:13] Eldar: If you're holding a cup, it's an empty cup, you can hold it for a while. But if you start adding water to it, how long can you hold that cup with an extended arm, for example?

[00:00:19] Not so long. And this is what's going on. You have stress with you right now. You're holding. How long do you want to hold this shit? 

[00:00:25] Toliy: There's almost no like societal clout for like doing something over a period of a lifetime, but there is societal clout for like, oh, like I hit the stock, you know, and it just like was one week thing.

[00:00:36] Cashed 

[00:00:36] Eldar: out.

[00:00:42] Welcome to the Dennis Rocks Podcast. We have Mike on the Mic. Whoa. You like that? That's 

[00:00:49] Toliy: a shocker. 

[00:00:50] Eldar: Oh, yeah, Toliy 

[00:00:51] Toliy: and Aldar. Bro- brother Toliy. 

[00:00:53] Eldar: Brother Toliy, yes. Brother Toliy. And tonight, we're gonna talk about trying to analyze this very specific moment in time that I think all the people in the world experience.

[00:01:08] Toliy: Whoa. 

[00:01:09] Eldar: And we're gonna talk about that time when we are idle, right? When we are idle, and we're waiting out a period, sp- a very specific period of time in order to finally launch whatever it is that we're trying to launch for ourselves, a lot of times we have different goals. "Oh, I wanna finally lose weight," or, "I wanna finally change my career.

[00:01:31] I wanna finally go to school and study something." We have these little moments in our minds or these little glimpses where we're motivated, we wanna do it, but we have this pause, pause that's usually holds us back from actually starting launching it. So I wanted to discuss this with you guys, , and ask you how, how important is that period?

[00:01:55] Why does that period exist? What can we do in order to make sure that that period is actually used in such a way where it is productive, to ensure that we actually, um, know when we're ready to go, mike, I think we discussed this, uh, with you on the walk a couple times already about the fact that there's a ramp period,

[00:02:15] I'm going through something right now, and doctor recommended to stay away from spicy food, stay away from coffee, right? And obviously, those are my pleasures. I love that stuff. 

[00:02:26] Mike: Mm. 

[00:02:27] Eldar: And I know I can do it, but because of the fact I'm also going through some stuff, those are the little things that I don't wanna let go of just yet, or I'm not ready yet.

[00:02:35] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:36] Eldar: But I know I'll do it. You know? Mm-hmm. I definitely need to do it. I need to try it out, try this elimination diet out- 

[00:02:41] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:02:41] Eldar: in order to make sure I get rid of some things that I'm feeling.? But I know that, uh, I'm going through a ramp period right now in order to finally get there and be ready to, to perform.

[00:02:51] Because at least in, in my case, I'd like to be able to, when I finally have my mind set to something, I like to finally do it and not bullshit myself. 

[00:02:58] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:02:58] Eldar: But I know, I also know the game of going back and forth a lot of the times, right? We say, "Oh, I wanna do it. I'm doing it," and then I'm not doing it.

[00:03:06] I'm not taking it seriously. So what do you guys think about this specific time in our lives where we're like, "Oh, I finally wanna lose this weight," but then there's this, , spooling period, right? Or a loading period. The buffer zone- 

[00:03:20] ... 

[00:03:20] Eldar: Before we actually, step through that door of actually starting to do it.

[00:03:24] Mike: Yeah. What, um- 

[00:03:25] Eldar: How important is 

[00:03:26] Mike: it? What's the, what's the, like, um- What's the use of that period? Like, um, for the person- 

[00:03:35] ... 

[00:03:35] Mike: Why is that period necessary? Because it seems like it's a necessary thing most- Yeah ... of the time for people to do, to go through that. So what, like, uh, what purpose does it serve, I think is like, um- 

[00:03:47] Eldar: That's a very good question.

[00:03:48] Yeah. And like, what, why is it there? 

[00:03:49] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:03:50] Eldar: I'm sure it, like I said, it exists for a lot of people. Right? A lot... Not everyone is just like, "I'm gonna say this, and I'm gonna do it right away." 

[00:03:56] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:57] Eldar: Right? For whatever, reason. I think a lot of people have this period, but it's a good question. What, what purpose does it actually serve?

[00:04:04] I think for me, I can only speak for myself obviously. You guys tell me your little, um, stories and examples. Uh, but my examples are I don't wanna fail- 

[00:04:15] Toliy: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:04:15] Eldar: a lot of the times. If I was to make an announcement, if I want to actually publicize it to everyone or to myself, most importantly, it's to, to have respect for myself.

[00:04:25] So I can't have like, um, I guess an argument that's not gonna stick. 

[00:04:30] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:04:30] Eldar: So I think that in that moment of time, I'm creating an argument or I'm building an argument for myself- 

[00:04:37] ... 

[00:04:37] Eldar: In order to be able to finally say, "Yo, I'm ready, and I'm gonna do it." 

[00:04:43] Mike: Yeah. I think, um, I think your perspective is, or you-- the way you're approaching it is like not wanting to fail is one, is definitely like one motivation.

[00:04:55] But I don't know if generally people are looking at it that way. Obviously, I haven't surveyed most people, but I think that period of indecisiveness

[00:05:12] It's 

[00:05:14] Eldar: Buying time? 

[00:05:15] Mike: It's buying time, but I, I don't, um... 

[00:05:18] Eldar: Who's buying time? 

[00:05:19] Mike: Well, I think, like, I think part of this whole thing of making a change any kind of change, I wonder if most of the time people are in, like, a deficit already to begin with. 

[00:05:34] And they're looking for something to give them a little boost.

[00:05:36] To kind of, like, look something to look forward to. Something to help them come out of, like, their current funk that they're in. And I think in those cases that that waiting period, I guess it also depends what happens with that waiting period. Mm. Like, is that a, like, forever waiting, or do you actually ever make the action to do it?

[00:05:55] Because, like, those are two different things that are happening. 

[00:05:58] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:58] Mike: You actually have, like, a g- like, a thing that you're working on, and you're gonna eventually take the step and do that. But I think a lot of people might be experiencing that in a different way, where they're just ramping up, but they never actually go in a lot of things.

[00:06:16] But I think it's probably because they're in a deficit and overwhelmed, and then they make these big, exciting plans. 

[00:06:22] It gives them a little, like, a little gas, you know? Like, a little... 

[00:06:26] Eldar: I think I'm, I'm also a little bit overwhelmed- Yeah ... or I'm also a little bit tired. 

[00:06:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:31] Eldar: Maybe, you know, whatever 

[00:06:32] Mike: it is- 100%.

[00:06:33] Yeah. 

[00:06:33] Eldar: Yeah. So I, what I'm giving myself a little bit of grace, I think- Mm-hmm ... period, to say, "You know what? Like, I look, I know I n- I need to get this done, and I wanna get this done." 

[00:06:40] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:41] Eldar: But right now, we're just not there yet. 

[00:06:43] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:43] Eldar: You know what I mean? So I'm giving myself a little bit of grace in order to ramp up- Mm

[00:06:47] slowly and then get to a place where I'm like, "When I'm done, I'm done." 

[00:06:50] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:50] Eldar: Kind of cold turkey it, you know, and, um, and do what's right. 

[00:06:55] Mike: Yeah. Well, I think that's the- The thing is you're looking at it from a very, like more, a much more, I think a very calculated way 

[00:07:05] Eldar: Well, I'm trying to. 

[00:07:06] Mike: Yeah.

[00:07:07] Eldar: I'd like to succeed. 

[00:07:08] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:07:08] Eldar: You know, ultimately, obviously. You know, I don't wanna be like a bullshitter. 

[00:07:12] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:07:13] Eldar: Most importantly to myself, because I know I might say it to you guys out loud, and then you guys might not hold me accountable, but you're pretty good at this kind of stuff. You probably remember a lot of this shit, but, um- 

[00:07:22] Mike: Mm-hmm

[00:07:23] Eldar: like I don't have to answer to you as much as I have to answer to myself. 

[00:07:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:07:27] Eldar: You know what I mean? And my self-esteem directly is tied to those specific outcomes that I come up in my own head. 

[00:07:34] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:34] Eldar: And a lot of times Toliy goes, "Yo, you're just doing shit. You know, you're not telling anyone, you're just doing shit."

[00:07:38] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like- 

[00:07:39] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:07:40] Eldar: yeah, because a lot of times I don't wanna announce it. I don't wanna fail. 

[00:07:44] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:44] Eldar: You know, I don't wanna like say it and then like be held accountable for something. 

[00:07:48] Mike: Yeah, I feel like that too. I, like I don't wanna make a statement because then- Yeah ...

[00:07:53] Eldar: i'm careful ch- of choosing- Yeah

[00:07:54] those types of- Yeah ... you know, scenarios for myself. 

[00:07:56] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:57] Eldar: I'd rather do it and show it that I'm doing it rather than just kinda like teeter back and forth. 

[00:08:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:08:03] Eldar: Because it hurts more- 

[00:08:04] Mike: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:08:04] Eldar: internally. 

[00:08:05] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:08:06] Eldar: I think, for me. I don't know about you guys. 

[00:08:08] Mike: Yeah, I think before I was ... I don't I'm actually don't know.

[00:08:12] Maybe before I was more of an announcement person. 

[00:08:14] But I definitely now, I try not to make announcements for sure. 

[00:08:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:19] Mike: For, for specific reasons. Some, partially because I don't want people to like, you know- 

[00:08:24] Yeah, have that static, but I also, mm, don't want... like the thing is a lot of times things get said and they're taken literally. You know what I mean? Like, if I tell you I- 

[00:08:36] Eldar: By who? By you or by the other people? 

[00:08:38] Mike: By other people. 

[00:08:39] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:08:39] Mike: And they may hold you to something not understanding because whether you didn't explain yourself properly- 

[00:08:43] Eldar: Or you miscommunicated

[00:08:44] Mike: or you miscommunicated. So if I'm saying like, "Hey, you know, like, like you said, then like you made the thing," right? You went to the doctor and they told you, "God, you can't eat this, can't eat that." 

[00:08:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:52] Mike: And you told us, but, and you kind of like you didn't say like, "Hey, that's it. I'm gonna make the change." I didn't 

[00:08:56] Eldar: say that, yeah.

[00:08:57] Mike: You didn't say that. Yeah. But like obviously I understand like- Yeah ... this is what's gon- what I, I'm understanding that this is what you're probably gonna do. 

[00:09:03] Eldar: Gonna try. 

[00:09:03] Mike: Yeah, you're gonna try to do. And- 

[00:09:04] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:09:05] Mike: but I also understand there's a ramp time- Mm-hmm ... for this for you because it's also, I also have the same problem.

[00:09:10] I even shared like, "Yo, I'm addicted to this shit. I can't I can't break this." 

[00:09:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:14] Mike: So, but I al- but I do know that you're gonna give it a crack. 

[00:09:19] Eldar: Gonna try. 

[00:09:20] Mike: You're gonna try, yeah. Yeah. So I think, um, yeah, I mean, like people like to give news, so I think- 

[00:09:28] Eldar: About themselves ... about 

[00:09:28] Mike: themselves.

[00:09:29] About their, about 

[00:09:29] Eldar: their future better 

[00:09:30] Mike: self. About, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's like, I think we, we had a, we, we spoke about this before. 

[00:09:36] Eldar: We, we speak about this all the time. Yeah. It's about goal setting, proper goal setting and stuff- Yeah ... you know? And how a lot of times, you know, saying it out loud actually puts you in a very specific box- 

[00:09:44] Mike: Yeah

[00:09:44] Eldar: that you might not actually enjoy. 

[00:09:46] Mike: But people, you know, like people, I don't know how people call each other out or not, but this is like normal talk. I feel like people just can say things, but they're not really- Held accountable for it ... might not really do and they're held accountable because the people they interact with, they're also like bullshitters.

[00:10:01] They just use that for like a better way. I, 

[00:10:03] Eldar: I agree with you. 

[00:10:04] Mike: So it's like What do you- 

[00:10:07] Eldar: Anything goes 

[00:10:08] Mike: Wha- Huh? 

[00:10:08] Anything goes, but the question is why are you buying... what are you buying with this, with these, like- 

[00:10:12] Eldar: Announcements ... 

[00:10:13] Mike: fake, uh, fake news things? And you are buying yourself something.

[00:10:19] Eldar: Yeah, and I think the currency is, um, the currency is the esteem that you're assuming that you're receiving from the individual who are- Mm-hmm ... you're telling this to, right? Yeah. You're like, "Oh, wow." 

[00:10:30] Mike: Mm-hmm. "

[00:10:30] Eldar: You onto that?" Yeah, that's- "Oh, wow, you're gonna lose the weight? Oh, wow." 

[00:10:33] Mike: You're gonna- But the magic trick is that you never, after many, many times saying the same, like, nonsense, you never stop believing your own- 

[00:10:41] Eldar: Mm-hmm

[00:10:42] Mike: lie. Like the... You still, like, you know, you know how the magic trick works? 

[00:10:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:10:46] Mike: Well, obviously, I mean, I guess technically you don't know how it works 'cause then you would- Stop it ... but, like, in a way, you've seen the magic trick, you've seen behind the scenes, but you still get shocked every time like, "Oh, wow, this is how it works?"

[00:10:55] Yeah. It's almost the same as making that announcement where, like... Yeah, and, and that, that's why it leads me to believe that just generally, like, um, being depleted- 

[00:11:05] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:11:05] Mike: you feel like you need something to, like, give you a little boost,

[00:11:09] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:11:09] Mike: A little pick-me-up. 

[00:11:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:11] Mike: So it serves a purpose, and it's, I guess it's also hard to say, does that, does making those announcements eventually get you to the place where you do make the action?

[00:11:25] You know- Mm ... do you eventually get there if you keep it on your radar? It may take you many attempts, many years, or many announcements to finally crack it, but- 

[00:11:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:11:35] Toliy: So, you know, on the podcast, you know, when the, when they have, like, I don't know, different people on, they're like, "Hey, you know, the, this is, like, best-selling author, multi Grammy Award," you know.

[00:11:46] So before I speak, I'm gonna give them my credentials. 

[00:11:48] I'm a multi, multi-decade, multi-year bullshitter. 

[00:11:52] A multi staller and delayer and fail to launch person,

[00:11:55] I have a lot of experience in this. 

[00:11:57] Eldar: Yes, that's, that's what I think. Yes. Yes. You 

[00:11:58] Toliy: know? I think you're 

[00:11:59] Eldar: the perfect person to 

[00:11:59] Toliy: speak 

[00:11:59] Eldar: to about this.

[00:12:00] Toliy: But, like, I think w- you guys were talking about, I think, one different points. Like, on, I, like, on the first question, I at least how I was taking it is that, like, why is there that failure to launch thing? And, like, I guess at least through my experience is that I feel like the, the failure to launch phase is a, is simple backup.

[00:12:21] Like, a s- simple, like, you're too backed up on stress And that's the reason why you can't launch, because to actually do something requires, like, energy and time, especially if it's something that's, like, change or especially if it's something that's different. It requires a lot of attention and energy.

[00:12:39] Thought. And if you're already tired, you're stressed out, making any kind of new changes or doing maybe more, like, um, difficult things for example, or like 

[00:12:49] Mike: bigger- Things that require actually to focus ... 

[00:12:51] Toliy: yeah, like brain power is all very difficult. And the reality is that most people have a ton of desires, but they have too much stress and too much baggage that they're holding onto and too many responsibilities.

[00:13:03] So for them to, um, launch anything, for me it's like, yeah, I always wanna launch different things and do different things, but then like when I'm saying that I'm not considering what what's going on behind like the scenes and I'm not properly estimating I guess, like what I, what I have going on and what's what's required of that to like solve those kinds of things.

[00:13:26] And when I do estimate and when I do like proper things, you know, then yeah, when like when I set my mind to it and then I don't have that like, um, backup of a ton of stress, then yeah, then I can do like anything I want. And then maneuvering within that, exploring something new, doing something different, making a big change, like to me it feels very easy then.

[00:13:51] And then you look back on it and it's actually way easier than what you thought it would be from when you were doing it like initially. But you always overshoot what's going on and you're not willing to say like, "Hey, all right," like, "I'm kinda shot. You know, I'm tired." Like I don't know, like in, in people practical lives they can't just say- I'm not ready 

[00:14:10] Eldar: yet

[00:14:10] Toliy: yeah. They, they can't just say like, "Hey," like, "I'm not gonna be productive at work today. I need a day off." 

[00:14:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:14:16] Toliy: In most people's lives that is not like a practical like thing of like saying that like, but in actuality it might be that i- if they actually took that day off and they actually rested, they could accomplish more in those next four working days- 

[00:14:30] Eldar: Yeah

[00:14:30] Toliy: than them not taking that day in the first, and but going to work five days for example. 

[00:14:34] Eldar: I, I agree with that, yeah. 

[00:14:35] Toliy: Right? Even if you take two days off for example- Yeah ... you still might more, do more in those next three than you would've done half-assing the first five. But in most environments and just most places it's not a practical way to look at life and people are just always like, in this like struggle, kinda love scenario, right?

[00:14:53] Where they're struggling through whatever it is that they're wanting to like accomplish or wanting to, um, to go through. So that, that to me is like the reason why there's like, yeah, like for you to launch a new diet or a complete, like to, to me like- You, like, you eating spicy and, like, not as much coffee may- maybe, but, like, definitely, like, part of your identity is eating spicy for, for example.

[00:15:17] It may not- Oh, 

[00:15:17] Eldar: yeah ... 

[00:15:18] Toliy: right? That's just part, part of it. You also, like, enjoy it like, just like you enjoy it. Cutting particular things out or doing things a particular way, I know that if you're under stress, you have no chance to be able to actually go through with it. Absolutely not.

[00:15:33] And also, I'd also don't I also think that, like, if those things are also contribute towards relieving of stress, to take those away will only pile up more stress, and it'll make this process be something that you never actually wanna fix to, to begin with because you have a negative 

[00:15:49] Eldar: association.

[00:15:49] See, I think there's, I think, I think there's a lot of wisdom in this specific conversation because of that. Well, you- Because a lot of times we don't consider these types of nuances. 

[00:15:58] Toliy: Yeah, because people who... if someone were to hear these things, they'd be like, "What the fuck are you even talking about?"

[00:16:03] Like- ... you know? Like, "Just stop being a bitch and stop eating that," you know? Like- Yeah ... like, yeah. Like, to them, it's like someone else's things is always like, you know, they, they try to, like- 

[00:16:11] Eldar: Minimize it ... 

[00:16:12] Toliy: yeah. Easy. It's easy. They, they try to s- simplify all, all of these things. Yeah. But people that look at life, I think, in that kind of simplistic type of way, they have too many complicated problems themselves that they're not even aware of, which is why they prefer just to keep things in this kind of, like, Surface

[00:16:28] chaotic, yeah, like this chaotic surface way. So that, that's like my, my at least experience and my opinion, like, on, on that where it's like there's too many times where I'm not honest with myself of like, "Hey, this is too much. I need to get this organized and do this, and then I can gracefully enter this other zone."

[00:16:46] Mike: Correct. 

[00:16:46] Toliy: You know? Um, but oftentimes you wanna... Y- you know, if you're capable of doing 10 tasks in a period, you wanna do 20 tasks at all times. 

[00:16:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:16:55] Toliy: And the, the problem with doing that is that you can't even complete the 10 that you can actually do. When you wanna complete 20, you actually only do, like, two, you know?

[00:17:04] So not only do you do less than your- Okay ... capacity- 

[00:17:06] Eldar: Okay, 

[00:17:07] Toliy: so- ... but you, um, yeah. 

[00:17:08] Eldar: I birthed another question based on what you just said. So you said, hey, look, y- your mind is telling you, my mind's telling me yes, my body's telling me no- ... or the other way. Yeah. Um, your mind's telling you I can do 20 things, but your ego is like, "Yo We can do it, right?

[00:17:29] But the sensible mind, the, you know, the reasonable mind should only be doing two things. Your ego then, right, feels like, "Oh, wow, like we can't just do two things. We can't just sit still and just do two things. That's not enough. We need to be able to encompass 20 things." So your ego gets to, gets a blow there.

[00:17:47] Your pride maybe, you don't feel more accomplished and you feel like a loser, and you can't feel that. So therefore you can never give yourself the grace to relax and calm down and only focus on two things. 

[00:17:58] Toliy: Yeah. Right? And, uh, look, m- yeah, so, so yeah on that, but I also think that it's like the process of not knowing who you are in yourself, especially when chartering like the journey of like a desire.

[00:18:13] Like the, uh, journey of the, the desire is like, it's like the, um, like you're seeking to acquire something, right? Yeah. Or you're, you're seeking something. And part of that s- seeking it that may be tied to what I was initially, talking about the consequences of what, if you're ha- if you have a desire, what are the consequences involved of how you get it or how you go about it?

[00:18:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:18:36] Toliy: And I think oftentimes there's a selling out portion that, that like you, you, like you're committing to more than what you're capable of or what's realistic because you want to try to do something either faster or better or get something that you currently don't have, and you're not willing to like...

[00:18:55] Yeah, you, you have this feeling that there's not enough time in general. 

[00:18:59] Eldar: So ev- Like- So everyone just put themselves in this little like hamster wheel of like not enough time, we just gotta get everything done? 

[00:19:05] Toliy: Yeah, because- At any cost? Well, no. To us? In general I think people feel like they don't have enough time.

[00:19:10] Like mo- I think a l- a lot of people that you speak to, like everybody wishes they had more time, for example, right? Like that's like as infinite. What, 

[00:19:18] Mike: um, what part- Everybody wishes more hours ... what part, what part of yourself is actually do you think telling you that? That you wish you had more time.

[00:19:23] Toliy: It's the part of you that doesn't understand, like, like it doesn't un- understand the sequencing of things and it doesn't understand in general the concept of time at all. It doesn't, um, it doesn't respect it. 

[00:19:36] Mike: Is that like your own internal stuff telling you that, like You gotta slow down?

[00:19:42] Toliy: I don't know if it's your own internal stuff, but I think the, uh, th- this idea is a, like, a societal pr- propaganda, like, push 

[00:19:49] Eldar: So then you, then it's attachment to, uh, box checking- 

[00:19:52] Toliy: Well- ... society standards ... well, well, no, I think it's just h- how, like, you were taught. It's, I think it's, like, what you've observed, and most people that you learn from, most people that you observe from if they're, like, people who are progressing towards something or they're growing or they're, like, improving something they give off a sentiment of, like, being extremely busy and, and, like, everyone's always trying to do more for less, right?

[00:20:13] That, that's just like- 

[00:20:14] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:20:15] Toliy: more efficiently. 

[00:20:16] You know? 

[00:20:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:17] Toliy: Uh, do things faster. That's, like, a thing. So it's like, there's almost no, like, societal clout for, like, doing something over a period of a lifetime. But there is- Mm-hmm ... societal clout for, like, "Oh, like, I hit the stock, you know, and it just, like, go through a one-week thing."

[00:20:33] Cashed out. Cashed out. In one week. You know? Like, yes. 

[00:20:35] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:20:36] Toliy: Like, it wasn't... Like, again, it's not, like, things that you accomplish over a lifetime, it's things that you can do fast. That's what the- What's praised ... societal currency. Yeah. That, that's societal currency, and that's also, like, what it's marketed to.

[00:20:48] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:48] Toliy: Um, it's not... there, there is no marketing of slow and steady. There's only a forceful slow and steady typically once you hit old age. 

[00:20:56] There, there's more of a forceful of it where, like, you just cannot move that kind of way. You just need naps, you just need sleep. You, you n- like- 

[00:21:03] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:21:03] Toliy: you just physically can't, so you're forced more into buying into that.

[00:21:07] But from a young age, it's like, "No," like- Rat race ... "you gotta do this now." Like, you you gotta get a move on it. It's always a speed thing. And you've adopted this mentality, and it's very difficult to, one, realize that, like, you, you subscribe to this kind of thinking to begin with of, like, speed and execution and, like, fast processing and thinking.

[00:21:27] Like, it, it, it, it's very rare, I think, that people realize that, like, "Oh," like, "this is what I'm subscribed to," and, like, this is what I'm actually... Like, everything I do encompasses this thing of, like, yeah, it's like no, no one's trying to figure out how to, like, Like, I don't know. Like, if you wanna say, like, build a sales process, right?

[00:21:44] No one's trying to build a sales process. Everyone's trying to build a sales process as fast as possible, and as, like, as much- Mm ... and, like, every- everything the best as fast as possible. 

[00:21:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:21:54] Toliy: That, that's an automatic, like, uh, like, an au- automatic, like, um, sentiment there. 

[00:22:01] Eldar: So you think this is why we can't...

[00:22:03] Also when we have these goals internally, we're also going against these specific things, this dogma, the society's dogma almost? 

[00:22:09] Toliy: Well, I think you're, you're just in a permanent struggle, and when you're in a permanent stru- Like, we all know the conscious feeling of being in, like, a struggle. You're, for example, stre- you were in stress, and you were in a conscious stress, right?

[00:22:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:20] Toliy: Like, you knew it. 

[00:22:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:21] Toliy: Right? 

[00:22:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:22] Toliy: But there's also, to me, majority of people, they don't even know it. 

[00:22:25] Eldar: But they under it. 

[00:22:25] Toliy: But they're, they're, they've normalized it more, but they are in stress. They are in chaos. They live in a chaotic life in gen- in general. So anything outside of their creaturely habits is gonna be like pulling nails- because they just have... they're just too... They're, there's too much pain and struggle and suffering. 

[00:22:45] Eldar: Mm. Interesting. 

[00:22:47] Toliy: And no one's willing to kind of put any of that down or, like, relax for a bit, right? And then, like, and then go, like, take care of it. 

[00:22:57] Eldar: So what do you suggest? Or as you like to say, they're fucked 

[00:23:02] Toliy: Yeah, I think it's like, yeah, like the, these kinds of concepts is like, you know, it's like- 

[00:23:07] Eldar: That's golden though

[00:23:08] Toliy: I think they're very difficult to process because,

[00:23:12] Eldar: Are they necessary? 

[00:23:13] Toliy: Depends for who. 

[00:23:15] Eldar: Let's just say for s- for the soul. 

[00:23:18] Toliy: I don't think the soul has a, like a choice here. I think you're either gonna adopt these kinds of things and make these kind of changes, or you're just gonna die faster.

[00:23:27] Eldar: Which is also then a necessary process. 

[00:23:28] Toliy: Yeah, 'cause the soul had too much. Like the- 

[00:23:31] Eldar: Yeah ... it's had- It had enough ... 

[00:23:33] Toliy: yeah. Hmm. Too much stress, too much this. Yep, we're gonna have to make you rest a little longer. 

[00:23:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:23:40] Toliy: But- But I also wanted to, to, to talk about the, uh, the second... I guess I don't know if it's a second topic or the other thing about the, uh, the announcing of things.

[00:23:50] You know, I think that that's definitely an interesting concept, but I think the announcing of things, to me it's like, to me depends like to like what's the... Like to who and what's the environment. 

[00:23:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm. '

[00:24:00] Toliy: Cause I, I at least feel that like, I feel like actually in our environment, I think the best thing that you can do is announce things.

[00:24:08] Hmm. Why? Because to me if you're able to announce things and publicize them in that kind of way I think it's a good measurement tool for yourself as to maybe like where you are like growth-wise, right? And perception-wise. Because like if you announce things and you can't do them or you can't keep up with them, or like you're just not doing what you were saying- 

[00:24:31] Then like, to me it clearly indicates to you that like you're like a bullshitter almost, right? Um- Can 

[00:24:39] Eldar: you be, can you be wrong about announcing? 

[00:24:41] Toliy: You can be, but I think it's I actually like if you could take it, I think it's actually healthy to know that like you, you miscalculated here because I'd also think to you, helps you sharpen your, your tools and helps you like sharpen your calculations to like learn- 

[00:24:54] Eldar: To, to announce it properly

[00:24:55] Toliy: well, to, well, to, to learn from this experience, to make sure that the thoughts in your head line up with reality. And if you don't announce things, I think that, I'm not sure if you can get that like, um, because I think you're, it like-

[00:25:13] It's almost like if you don't make things official, let's just say, right? 

[00:25:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:25:16] Toliy: Then you can always permanently forgive yourself and just like- Well, 

[00:25:19] Mike: if, if you're not able- ... just justify things ... if you're not able to govern yourself, then definitely yes. 

[00:25:22] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm trying to think of m- my personal example.

[00:25:26] I mean, with the stress that w- that I had, I mean, I guess that was an announcement, right? Or was it just like 

[00:25:32] Toliy: understood? No, I think it was an, like in, in this case of making this change, like no, I think it's actually extremely good to like not make the change that you're trying to make in the current state, because I think it just- No, that I kn-

[00:25:43] like validly be stupid ... I know, 

[00:25:43] Eldar: but I'm, I'm talking about rewind it back to the fact that like was, I was under stress with this whole situation that we've just been through, let's just say this construction stuff, right? Yeah. That I was under stress and I announced it. Yeah. Looking back at it, I'm not sure whether or not it served me by announcing it. I mean, to some degree it did, but at the time when I was announcing it, at the time when I was going through it, I was very alone in it,

[00:26:09] and I know that you guys are obviously on my side. Yeah. I know that you guys are on my side, Joe's on my side, Catherine's on my...

[00:26:16] Everybody was on my side, obviously. Yeah, but, 

[00:26:18] Toliy: but you also 

[00:26:19] Eldar: have your- But I was, nonetheless, I was alone. Let me finish it. 

[00:26:21] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:26:22] Eldar: I was very alone. I felt still misunderstood, even though the other side of me like, "No, you guys do understand, but you just don't get it," in tho- in those moments. 

[00:26:31] Toliy: No, but I think that you're actually a poor communicator on this kind of stuff.

[00:26:35] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Really? 

[00:26:36] Toliy: Yeah, I, I 

[00:26:36] Eldar: think so. Well, about what? That I was stressed? I was under stress? Well, 

[00:26:39] Toliy: no, like, 

[00:26:39] Eldar: I, 

[00:26:39] Toliy: I think that, like- My... 

[00:26:40] Eldar: That was not poor of me. Like, I, I- 

[00:26:42] Toliy: No, I think that you're a poor communicator as far as, like, like, if you're feeling something. I think that you may be underestimating how much you, like, hold in or harbor on the inside.

[00:26:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:52] Toliy: And you don't, like, talk about it, like, enough because, like, yeah, I just feel like you're either not, like, used to it or, like... Like, to me, I'm, like, so used to vocalizing, like, my, my- Yeah ... my, my i- issues, like, 'cause I've had way more issues, I think, probably, than you over a period of time. Um, but I feel like you've had either m- you probably had just much less issues or maybe nowhere near the vocalized amount of issues.

[00:27:17] So, like, I just feel like, yeah, you probably don't, like, uh, like, bring it externally enough. So I don't know, man. I, I don't know if you feel like internally that, like, it's either, like, a burden on others or, like, like a, like I don't know if you have those kinds of- 

[00:27:29] Eldar: No, no, I told you

[00:27:30] responses ... my initial feelings were that, like, nobody understands me and nobody can carry it. 

[00:27:35] Toliy: Yeah, but see, that, that's, like, a crazy, like... Uh, that's, like, an arrogant take almost. 

[00:27:39] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:39] Toliy: You know? That's, like, a crazy, 

[00:27:40] Eldar: like- I agree. I couldn't control it. 

[00:27:43] Mike: No, yeah, I understand. 

[00:27:44] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Where it's like I'm so deep in it- 

[00:27:48] Mike: Mm-hmm

[00:27:48] Eldar: and then I see you guys outwardly, I told this to Catherine. Mm-hmm. I was like, you know, and she's, she's going about her business or whatever, you know, and everybody's going about their business or whatever. I'm like, "Nobody gets it." Yeah. That's, that's the evaluation of it. 

[00:28:00] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:28:01] Eldar: But the other side of me says, like, "Of course you guys get it.

[00:28:04] Of course you're on my side." Yeah. "Of course you have my support- Yeah ... and you have my back." You know what I mean? Yeah. You helped me climb out of this fucking shit. Yeah. For sure. Out of this mess. You know what I mean? But in the moment- ... you guys obviously know this. 

[00:28:14] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:28:14] Eldar: In the moment, nobody gets it.

[00:28:16] Mike: Yeah. I know, I know what you're talking about. I actually was thinking about it, you know, when I was, like, when you were going through it. 

[00:28:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:22] Mike: And I was reflecting on, like, my own, 'cause I was also, like- 

[00:28:25] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:28:25] Mike: compromised in it ... you also had your own side of it, yeah. I was compromised, too, with it. 

[00:28:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:29] Maybe not as bad

[00:28:29] Mike: not as bad, but and I, I, I ha- I was like, my thing is like, "Hey- if you kinda like right now you down, right? 

[00:28:38] And obviously you were. I'm like, I'm also down right now, but I also know, like I have shit to do. Yeah. Like, there's things that need to get done. 

[00:28:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:28:46] Mike: Right? And I cannot, like I cannot let this consume me, right?

[00:28:52] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:28:52] Mike: So for example, and then I thought about myself and when I was having relationship problems- 

[00:28:57] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:28:57] Mike: and I was not able to take that approach. 

[00:29:00] Right? Because that was like, um, it was different, right? But it was stress, it was very intense, but I was not able to put aside here, like I got my work.

[00:29:10] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:10] Mike: I can't bring my problems here. Um, m- and I have to do what I have to do because I have, we have a business to run, we have responsibilities, we have things we need to get done regardless. Yeah. Like right, I have those things that I'm- For sure ... like in my head. I wasn't able to like d- I was able to detach from it because like, hey, there's shit that needs to get done.

[00:29:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:27] Mike: Even though, but when I did think about it, it definitely, I was like, I would get furious about it. Sometimes just walking with Teddy- Mm-hmm ... after reading an email in the morning and I'm like, I'm just angry, like because of what's happening here. It's so like unjust, it feels to me. Yeah. But then I'm like, I gotta come here and I still have to do what I have to do.

[00:29:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:44] Mike: So I think it's because of different attachments or we disconnect or connect- 

[00:29:48] ... 

[00:29:48] Mike: On different things, and this one for you is a lot closer to home than it was for me. I didn't take it as bad bec- because, uh, for whatever reason, I don't know, maybe I didn't understand it fully or for or something like that, or I didn't understand the severity of it, right?

[00:30:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:04] Mike: Where you interpreted it in a cer- very, in a very different way. 

[00:30:07] Eldar: Yeah. Potentially. I 

[00:30:08] Mike: was very 

[00:30:08] Eldar: offended. 

[00:30:08] Mike: You were very offended, yeah. 

[00:30:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:11] Mike: Where I was also offended, but like w- what I said to you guys is like I understood what happened very early on. 

[00:30:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:19] Mike: Like we're trying to have a currency discussion with a person who does not operate on the same currency we do.

[00:30:25] It would be foolish of me to try to hold him to a standard- 

[00:30:28] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:30:29] Mike: that maybe I'd like to h- hold myself to. 

[00:30:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:33] Mike: Because like we never made that agreement that this is how we're gonna operate. Yeah. So for me to say like, "Hey, now you have to be a philosopher and be ethical and moral," it would be wrong for me to put that on him.

[00:30:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:30:42] Mike: You know? And like I took it on the, on the chin of like, hey, I know who this person is. 

[00:30:47] Eldar: Yeah. And you, you shared that with me, and I couldn't process the same thing. 

[00:30:50] Mike: I know, I know. 

[00:30:50] Eldar: I couldn't take that on. 

[00:30:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:30:52] Eldar: I couldn't take certain advice that Tony was giving me, what Catherine was giving me- Yeah

[00:30:55] what Joe was yelling at me for, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. I couldn't take it. 

[00:30:58] Mike: Then- 

[00:30:58] Eldar: It was none of it, none of it mattered ... none of it. None of it stuck, none of... Like I was completely compromised. Yeah. 

[00:31:04] Toliy: You know what I mean? Yeah, but the question is are like w- w- then like what, what do you think that like, what like if you look back at it now, what do you think you wanted in those scenarios that like you- 

[00:31:12] Eldar: That's a good question.

[00:31:13] Uh, you know, uh, in that moment, uh... 

[00:31:16] Mike: it didn't, didn't you, didn't we have like a thing that you s- we were still talking about stress? 

[00:31:21] Eldar: You know, I, maybe I wanted to be my y- not what I needed and what I wanted. It's two different things. 

[00:31:26] Toliy: No, but 

[00:31:26] Eldar: what- You know? ... 

[00:31:27] Toliy: what, what did you want? 

[00:31:29] Eldar: I probably wanted more outrage, but it's the wrong thing.

[00:31:33] Mike: You wanted to go against the- 

[00:31:36] Toliy: Yeah, like I, like I, I couldn't- Your own belief system ... yeah, like I couldn't give you- But we had 

[00:31:39] Eldar: outrage. 

[00:31:40] Toliy: Yeah, like we had outrage, and we had shared things, again, on a, yeah, on a moral- But- ... ethical- 

[00:31:45] Eldar: Yes ... 

[00:31:45] Toliy: level. But I also, like, yeah, like, like obviously I was upset about the s- situation.

[00:31:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:51] Toliy: But I definitely did not allow it, uh, like, I definitely didn't get to a point where I felt like like the ways that, that like you felt about it. But like, yeah, I feel like if you're trying to help someone, you're g- you're like, the like, the, uh, the goal in my opinion at least is try to help someone closer, like bring them closer to reality, 

[00:32:09] Eldar: you- 

[00:32:09] Toliy: Okay But I understand that there, there's like a resistance to that in the moment of like, b- yeah, like anyone in that com- compromised kind of state, there's a level of insanity happening, right? 

[00:32:20] Eldar: Y- you could say that. 

[00:32:21] Toliy: Right? 

[00:32:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:32:22] Toliy: So to bring someone to closer to like r- reality, there's a natural resistance, I know, that like- Yeah

[00:32:29] happens within that. 

[00:32:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:32:31] Toliy: Okay, 

[00:32:31] Eldar: so- 

[00:32:31] Toliy: But you gotta stay the course, I 

[00:32:32] Eldar: feel like, and- I think your question's very good, 'cause I'm thinking about it now. What I wanted was one thing, but what I, what I want, what I actually needed was another thing. And that needed thing- Mm-hmm ... came only later with the challenges that you guys threw at me.

[00:32:44] You know what I mean? Like I said, the challenges that you threw at me in Bermuda when we were- Mm-hmm ... uh, hiking. 

[00:32:48] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:32:48] Eldar: Then Toliy ch- challenged me with the money things. Like, "Aldar, what are we talking about here?" Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:52] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:32:52] Eldar: You know what I mean? Like, and then, the lawyers, they challenged me with another thing, right?

[00:32:57] Mm-hmm. So like the elders. 

[00:32:58] Mike: Did you have like a feeling of maybe like- 

[00:33:00] Eldar: I ne- I, to some degree I needed to be scolded earlier. 

[00:33:03] Mike: Mm. 

[00:33:03] Eldar: And I wasn't. 

[00:33:04] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:33:05] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[00:33:07] Mike: Maybe, um, did you feel like in this, in at least, at least the way you were maybe felt, would you, like in a sense it almost felt like you wanted to abandon the, the logic and the reason and the philosophy.

[00:33:18] You just wanted to rage in a certain sense. 

[00:33:21] Eldar: No, because it was grounded in logic and reason and philosophy, Mike. 

[00:33:24] Mike: It, but, but, but- It was a principle thing ... but the thing is if you were- You know? ... grounded in that, then h- is it possible to have that kind of emotional reaction? 

[00:33:31] Toliy: Well, no, it was grounded- You know, I think it's 

[00:33:32] Eldar: un-

[00:33:32] it was appropriate. 

[00:33:33] Toliy: Well, no, it was grounded in philosophy. I'm not sure if it was exactly grounded in the logic based on like- what the, what what the s- situation was, right? Yeah. And, like, I always maintained the same en- energy, and we were, like, almost never able to find that out from any of those, again, attorneys we spoke, spoke to.

[00:33:51] Like, I always wanted to find out, hey, who is right? 

[00:33:54] Eldar: Who is right, yeah. 

[00:33:55] Toliy: And no one can give you- 

[00:33:56] Eldar: No ... 

[00:33:56] Toliy: that kind of answer. And the the moment that that clicked to me is I was like, yo, no one's gonna actually tell you and- Yeah ... pick this fight with you. Like, like yo, you're being wronged, and you need to protect yourself, and you need to fight.

[00:34:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:07] Toliy: No one gave you that kind of thing. 

[00:34:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:10] Toliy: Right? And I realized during that process that, like, no one's gonna tell you that because- 

[00:34:16] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:34:16] Toliy: be- because whether that's true or not, the first interest is a financial interest. Yeah. And they're all gonna understand that this is not financially worth it. 

[00:34:25] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:34:25] Toliy: Therefore, I cannot tell this client, potentially- 

[00:34:27] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:34:28] Toliy: that, hey, like, this the, like, let's pr- pursue this- 

[00:34:31] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:34:31] Toliy: because 

[00:34:31] Eldar: you- And they did, and the ones that did, they said, "Yo, it's not money worth it, but you're probably right." Yeah. Like, that's what happened. 

[00:34:36] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:34:37] Eldar: And then I shut up, kinda like, yo, like, we finally got it, you know?

[00:34:40] Yeah. It went through my head where it's like, yo, like, I'm fighting for the fucking leaves here. Yes. But, but the- Yes ... leaves were the roots. 

[00:34:45] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:34:46] Eldar: You know? 

[00:34:46] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Well, it felt that way I feel like. 

[00:34:49] Eldar: Yeah, it did. It felt 

[00:34:50] Toliy: that way, yeah. It did for the moment. But I also know that, like, when you do things, like, yeah, I, I don't know, I just feel like you're harboring more than what you're sharing.

[00:34:58] Like, that's the vibe I get 'cause I feel like you almost don't want others to, like, to, like, take on either some kind of burden or some kind of, like, weight. Like, you have this, like, thing that you don't wanna make it, like- 

[00:35:08] Eldar: Well, I'ma tell you right now. Yeah. I, I guess, I guess maybe I was, I was- Like, 

[00:35:11] Toliy: e- e- even, like, if I do something for you, like, I almost like, I hate when you thank me for it.

[00:35:17] Like, I don't like it. 

[00:35:18] Eldar: Okay. Well, that's a- Like, it's, like, a weird thing ... that's your problem. That's your own problem. That's all from... 'Cause my, my think- my thinking is actually genuine. I'm not gonna thank you just for no reason, you know what I mean? No, but, like, you, you- Because I'm telling you-

[00:35:27] do it like a, you know? Because I'm telling you because in that moment I needed that. Yeah. You know what I mean? And, like, I didn't have it, even though to you it's like, yo, this is easy or whatever, like, you got this, Aldo. But at that moment I didn't have it. That's why I thanked you for it, but that's a different conversation.

[00:35:40] I guess I'm upset maybe, or I don't do it, is because in the moment when I share the problem, the reactions that I get, or maybe the backing that I get is, is- what I want, but it's not what I need. 

[00:35:52] Mike: Oh, wow. 

[00:35:52] Toliy: No, but, no, no, but you can also, I 

[00:35:54] Mike: think- That, that's, yeah, that's diff- that's interesting. 

[00:35:57] Eldar: That's a fucking thing, 

[00:35:58] Toliy: bro.

[00:35:58] But I feel like you can deal- I know what you're talking about ... with that by challenging 

[00:36:01] Eldar: it. Because, th- well, yes, and the challenges came 

[00:36:03] Toliy: later. And then you guys see if 

[00:36:04] Eldar: you, right- The challenges came, we went 

[00:36:05] Toliy: to the 

[00:36:05] Eldar: fucking Bermuda- 

[00:36:06] Toliy: No, no, no. No, no, no, you challenging it on the spot versus not say- y- like, I feel like you're not hearing what, what, like, you're, for example, the feeling is that in those moments you're not hearing what you kind of want, right?

[00:36:18] But you're not challenging those- I'm upset at you guys- Yeah ... that you guys didn't come out, out of it faster than you should have. 

[00:36:23] Mike: No, you, yeah, you're upset at us for not calling you out- That's what I'm upset about. I just realized it ... calling you throwing a fit. 

[00:36:27] Toliy: Correct. 

[00:36:28] Mike: You were throwing a fit- Earlier

[00:36:28] and we should have said it faster. But- 

[00:36:31] Eldar: Yes ... but- No. No. I- I'm not saying that you guys, you guys were going through your own motions. Yeah. You know what I mean? 

[00:36:37] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:38] Eldar: And I know that. I see that. Like, you guys were also upset. Toliy, like, "What the fuck? We're not doing this. We're not doing the floor. We're not doing the fucking molding," and all this other crap.

[00:36:44] Mm-hmm. You know? Obviously, like, and that's my take as well. 

[00:36:48] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:48] Eldar: You know? But the truth is that Toliy was getting it wrong, and you were getting it wrong, too. 

[00:36:52] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:53] Eldar: But you guys came out of it faster than I did. Mm-hmm. And then you started challenging me, and then I calmed the fuck down because I agree with your challenges.

[00:37:00] So I w- this is what I'm, I'm mad about. 

[00:37:01] Toliy: Yeah, 

[00:37:02] Eldar: but I also- That you guys did not come out of it faster, or you even went into a compromise in the first place. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but part of it is- The whole team got compromised, bro ... 

[00:37:10] Toliy: yeah, but I also think that part of the process of that, like- 

[00:37:12] Eldar: Yeah, no, no, I'ma tell you right now.

[00:37:13] I was pissed, bro. Like, a lot of times- 

[00:37:15] ... 

[00:37:15] Eldar: We were here, we would recite the fucking shit and we were good together, and then I had to recite the shit to my sister, and then I had to recite the shit to Catherine. 

[00:37:23] You know what I mean? And guess what? I had to relive their fucking anger towards the situation again.

[00:37:29] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:37:30] Eldar: And I had to share that again. But the thing is- And that pissed me off, bro ... 

[00:37:32] Mike: but the thing is- You 

[00:37:33] Eldar: know what I'm 

[00:37:33] Mike: saying? ... the thing is, what you, what you were doing, you were chasing that feeling, though. 

[00:37:36] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:37:37] Mike: In a certain sense. 

[00:37:37] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:37:38] Mike: You were doing some 

[00:37:39] Eldar: B- I'm an idiot, bro ... BDSM bullshit. In, in that moment- Yeah

[00:37:40] I was a fucking idiot. Yeah. And I get that. That's what I 

[00:37:42] Toliy: was saying, to not speak to the people that, uh, are gonna, 

[00:37:45] Eldar: you know- But, no, but you guys were also those people, that's the thing. 

[00:37:48] Toliy: Yeah, 

[00:37:48] Eldar: but- Everybody was compromised, bro. 

[00:37:50] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:37:50] Eldar: You know? Yeah. That this is what I'm mad about. 

[00:37:52] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:37:52] Eldar: And then when you guys started coming out, out of it, it also felt like you guys were leaving me in that moment.

[00:37:58] Yeah. You know what I mean? I know. Yo, these motherfuckers what? Yeah. They're okay with this shit? 

[00:38:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:38:02] Eldar: No, we gotta fight more. Yeah. But I, the reason I also came back, like, "Yo, shut the fuck up," like, "What are you talking about?" Toliy's argument is right. Your argument is right. Then Joel calmed down.

[00:38:11] He's like- Mm ... "Yo, Eldar," like, you know, like- 

[00:38:13] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:38:13] Eldar: he even m- I even remember the fucking, uh, the analogy that he made. 

[00:38:17] You know, if you're holding a cup, it's an empty cup, you can hold it for a while, but if you start adding water to it, how long can you, you h- hold that cup with an extended arm, for example?

[00:38:24] Not so long. Maybe 10 minutes, maybe 20 minutes. Mm-hmm. And this is what's going on. You have stress with you right now. You holding. How long do you wanna hold this shit? Mm. He started challenging me that way, too. 

[00:38:33] You know what I mean? 

[00:38:33] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:38:35] Eldar: This is what it was. I'm not learning to share more, Toliy, from this.

[00:38:38] I'm learning not to share the shit more and process it better because I don't necessarily believe that I'll be held down the right way- 

[00:38:44] ... 

[00:38:44] Toliy: From the jump. Yeah but I also feel that, like, you don't like, um... Well, one thing is that, like, I th- I I think there's also a general perception that you're right about a lot of things.

[00:38:56] And I think it also makes it a little bit more difficult to, I think, chal- challenge you- Mm ... in this kind of shit. Because you first have to see, like, "Hey, are you actually correct or are you not?" Before, like- 

[00:39:08] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:39:09] Toliy: like I'm saying, like, because you usually get shit right. So for me it's, like, I definitely double take a lot in these kind of scenarios 

[00:39:16] Eldar: because, like- But did you not see, but did you not see how much, how much what's his name?

[00:39:19] How much I was looking for your guidance, your guidance, Mike's guidance, everyone's guidance in this You know what I mean? 

[00:39:27] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:39:27] Eldar: Yes. I was like, like, "No." No, 

[00:39:28] Mike: no, no. The thing is, uh, we still obviously don't know if we're right or wrong. 

[00:39:33] Eldar: We're fucking right. 

[00:39:34] Mike: Well, we- We know we're right ... we know we're right.

[00:39:36] But, and, and- 

[00:39:38] Eldar: We got scumbagged and it's okay- Yeah ... but we fucking took it on the chin- Yeah ... and that's it. You know what I mean? 

[00:39:42] Mike: And, and I think we were trying to figure that out, realizing that you can't figure that out. Yeah. And, uh, nobody's gonna figure that out for you. 

[00:39:50] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:39:50] Mike: You have to figure it out yourself or you have to go to court.

[00:39:53] Eldar: Either you live with it or you go to court. 

[00:39:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:39:54] Eldar: But the- and, and even then, right? 

[00:39:56] Mike: You could still never get the truth. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I think we- I think that also has like a, like a- A- ... deep lesson of no attachment to it as well. Yeah. But I know what you're saying. I, I understand what you're saying, m- about the, um...

[00:40:10] you didn't, you wanted... Like, we were babying you because we thought that's what you wanted, is what you're saying. 

[00:40:16] Eldar: No. In a certain sense. No, you guys would compromise too, and I get it. We would compromise. Obviously we would compromise. You know what I mean? But like, yeah, but I was, I was like living off of that, you know what I mean?

[00:40:22] And I was like, "Oh, shit," like, you know, obviously like- You were 

[00:40:25] Mike: thriving in the chaos. You were actually like addicted to the, the- I wasn't, 

[00:40:29] Eldar: bro. 

[00:40:29] Mike: I was very stressed ... you were sucked into that, yeah, yeah. 

[00:40:32] Yeah. No, I get it. 

[00:40:33] Eldar: Yeah, but I think it's also like- And the times when you did come through, guys, you guys came through with reason, with logic, and it was right, and I was like, "Oh, finally they 

[00:40:40] Mike: said it."

[00:40:41] No, but it, but also we knew, like- You know what I mean? ... we I felt like very quickly I understood. Yeah. Very, uh, very fast I understood what's happening. 

[00:40:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:46] Mike: And I was able to detach, but I was ready to go to war against him. 

[00:40:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:51] Mike: And I was ready to not go to war against him. 

[00:40:53] Toliy: Yeah, like I, I, I like, yeah, I felt that same type of, um, sentiment- And that's the 

[00:40:57] Eldar: thing.

[00:40:57] The decision was hanging, right? Yeah. Because you also said that to me. He was- the decision was like, "Eldar, whatever you wanna do, I'll be right there." Mm-hmm. Obviously it's good to hear. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? 

[00:41:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:41:06] Eldar: But the pr- the, in the moment of me have to, having to hold that regardless, and Catherine said the same shit to me, "Yo, whatever you wanna do.

[00:41:13] You wanna go to war? We'll go to war." Yeah, 

[00:41:14] Toliy: but 

[00:41:14] Eldar: you see, it's very- "And I'll be right there." 

[00:41:15] Toliy: Yeah, but you see- I 

[00:41:16] Eldar: gotta hold that. 

[00:41:17] Toliy: No, I know, but see, it, like, I think in def- in, in general it's very difficult to like, to almost tell you what to do in those kinds of scenarios. 

[00:41:25] Eldar: I know, I know. Because- But sometimes I think that like I need to be told.

[00:41:27] Toliy: Yeah, but see, I feel like- And that's what I was looking for ... if you, you- Mm-hmm ... if you fought, if you vocalized the, i- if you vocally fought the f- like challenged the feelings, I think that, like, the challenge back to you would, would, would happen faster. 

[00:41:41] Mike: The thing is, uh, it sounds like you didn't want it.

[00:41:44] Toliy: I thought, I thought I did, bro. 

[00:41:45] Mike: You didn't want it. The thing is you- Yeah, I, I thought I did ... you, you're pulling the wall thing, man. You're scared of that fucking wall. This is the same thing, like it's you not wanting to face what you need to face, and you kind- Which 

[00:41:55] Eldar: was what? 

[00:41:57] Mike: was taking that step and relying on yourself and believing in yourself and, like, doing the right thing how you usually try to guide- I 

[00:42:04] Eldar: thought I would, did the whole time I thought I did, bro.

[00:42:06] Mike: No. That's why the fight started. You were actually scared to, you were scared to reach for that hold, and you were scared to land that foot. 

[00:42:11] Eldar: Which, which, which was what? 

[00:42:12] Mike: Which was what? Which is to actually lean on the truth, because you wanted to lean on whatever you wanted to lean on in that moment, which is not the truth.

[00:42:20] Eldar: And what was that? What was the truth? 

[00:42:23] Mike: The, the truth is it doesn't matter. There's, you shouldn't be so attached. You should not be willing to compromise, and if you're having stress and if you're suffering, that means you are lacking knowledge. And you should be chasing to understand the truth and the knowledge versus trying to, like- Through all those 

[00:42:39] Eldar: conversations we had, I thought I was doing that.

[00:42:42] Mike: I know. 

[00:42:42] Eldar: That's the problem. 

[00:42:43] Mike: I know. 

[00:42:44] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[00:42:44] Mike: I 

[00:42:44] Toliy: know. Yeah, but see, the, the way that you were, that you phrase yourself, I, I feel like at least in the process is that like, yeah, like you almost don't want to be challenged back. Like, you want to rile up more troops to, like, to help you fight, but be- because you also don't fight the points back.

[00:43:00] Like I don't know if that makes sense. Like, if you were to fight, if you were to voca- vocally fight back, you would then be able to get challenged more and faster. I 

[00:43:08] Mike: couldn't fight, fight back. I'm a position that- No, the thing 

[00:43:09] Eldar: is, he 

[00:43:10] Mike: wasn't, he was in a completely compromised state. Yeah. No. He was getting exactly what he wanted.

[00:43:14] He wanted to be the babish in, um, in that thing. He wanted that even though consciously he would say, "This is wrong." But because he was not in a conscious state, this is exactly what you wanted. Like- 

[00:43:26] Toliy: No, but he's still har- I didn't want that. No, but he's still- 

[00:43:28] Mike: You didn't want that ... 

[00:43:29] Toliy: no, but he's still harboring way more internally- Mm-hmm

[00:43:32] than he is vocalizing externally. And he- Yeah. Yeah ... yeah, that's what usually happens- But that's 100% ... 

[00:43:37] Mike: but 

[00:43:37] Toliy: that's what happens 

[00:43:38] Mike: when 

[00:43:38] Toliy: the person is like- No, but I'm saying that, no but I'm saying that like, if you almost complain out and you almost vocalize it externally, like you almost, you, you bring out like your ignorances, right?

[00:43:48] Mm-hmm. And then you make the, you, you bring them out into the real world, and by doing that you, you allow others to then challen- challenge you way more, and in like, I think a way more like effective and like intense way. 

[00:44:00] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:44:01] Toliy: Yeah, but 

[00:44:01] Eldar: what did I not vocalize that wasn't challenged? Like, what, now that we know the conclusion of it- Mm-hmm

[00:44:06] and where we, where we stand and how we came out out of it and how I came out out of it, what didn't I fucking share that I was fucking going through? I fucking told you everything- Well, I don't think it's- ... all my fucking feelings ... I don't think, 

[00:44:14] Mike: I'm not sure if it's what you didn't share- I hosted my shit

[00:44:16] or what you did, you, what you... like I think we, we said this before. Like, if you're having stress, if you're suffering, that means you need to learn something. Sure. So what is that you didn't, that you need to learn, that you didn't learn, why you had to go through this process that you might have learned now?

[00:44:31] What, what was it? 

[00:44:34] Eldar: Well, some of the conclusions that we made is that some of the due diligence that we were misinformed. 

[00:44:38] You know what I mean? We didn't do our due diligence- Yeah ... properly. 

[00:44:41] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:41] Eldar: You know? Yeah. Obviously we hired the wrong fucking- 

[00:44:43] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:44:43] Eldar: professional- 

[00:44:44] Mike: Yeah ... to represent us. But the thing is, if we knew that, and we already knew that pretty early on- 

[00:44:48] Why didn't we say like, "Yo, we're, we're wrong here"?

[00:44:52] Like, we're wrong, but we still- But we didn't, 

[00:44:53] Eldar: we didn't discover that because the other person was also telling us that we're right We kept getting more 

[00:44:59] Mike: batteries in our bag The thing is, it's like, it's like, uh, we wanted to take a, w- w- wanted to take the incompetent person as competent when it was convenient for us, but incompetent when it wasn't convenient for us.

[00:45:11] Yeah, like 

[00:45:11] Eldar: I- We didn't know that 

[00:45:11] Toliy: though ... like, but the- We didn't know that ... the thing is that in, like, to me, and like the energy that you're that, that like you're bringing, it's difficult to go against you because, yeah, like my, my f- Because it makes 

[00:45:24] Eldar: sense? 

[00:45:24] Toliy: Well, no. In my feelings, it's like, I wanna support you and I wanna be on your team, but may- may- maybe the, I'm looking back at it now yeah, like the, like the I definitely did not feel the same way.

[00:45:36] Did I feel that like some things were like bad and like strange? Like, yes. But part of me is like telling you like you, like part of me wants to like, shake you and like, you know, like tell you like, you know, like this. That's exactly 

[00:45:47] Eldar: what I'm 

[00:45:47] Toliy: telling you. Yeah, yeah. Like looking back at it now and like- See, 

[00:45:49] Eldar: you a coward, bro.

[00:45:50] Toliy: Yeah, like I feel like I could've been much more like aggressive- Yes ... because I was I, like honestly, I was a little bit compromised at times, but for like 95% I did not feel that way at all. 

[00:46:01] Eldar: That's why when I asked you- 

[00:46:02] Toliy: Part of me 

[00:46:02] Eldar: like- ... and now you said that. Yes. 

[00:46:03] Toliy: Yeah, and that's why I was like, "What 

[00:46:04] Eldar: the fuck?"

[00:46:04] Toliy: But there's a feeling. But it's also tough because the way that you act, it's like if I don't like if I don't say that like, "Hey, I'm willing to go to war with you almost," it's almost like, like yeah, it's like a weird like thing of like, well, you feel that like am I not on your side or like I don't care or like 

[00:46:19] Eldar: that.

[00:46:19] No, I think the, the position is correct. But I can... Yeah. Your, your position to support me is correct because you guys reasoned through it yourself and you saw that we are right.

[00:46:26] You know what I mean? Like, what the fuck, yeah. 

[00:46:28] But the question was, is it worth it at the end of the day? 

[00:46:31] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:46:32] Eldar: Right? 

[00:46:32] Toliy: Yeah. Like I could have definitely been- That's what that was ... much, much, much more aggressive to like, to like go against you, but like yeah, it, it's difficult to go against you with like how you act almost and like who you are because it's like you're right most of the time.

[00:46:46] Mike: Well, then that's like, uh, that's not good. 

[00:46:48] Toliy: Yeah. No, no. Well, 

[00:46:49] Eldar: number one, it's not good. Looking back at it, no. Nevermind. Number two, in this situation, it's very difficult to do because I was fucking right. Yeah. Yes. You know what I mean? What, what argument that I'm, I'm bringing to you guys that you didn't feel the same thing?

[00:46:50] Yeah. No. Yeah. You felt the same way.

[00:47:00] Yeah. We all felt fucking wronged. 

[00:47:03] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:03] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[00:47:04] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, 

[00:47:05] Eldar: but it's- The po- the part was that you guys had some abilities that, to get unstuck, to detach- Mm-hmm ... yourself. I didn't have those as fast- No ... until I started receiving- Mm-hmm ... some pushback. 

[00:47:16] Mike: No. 

[00:47:16] Eldar: Which was correct, and that's what I actually needed.

[00:47:19] You know what I'm saying? I needed that. 

[00:47:22] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:22] Eldar: What I got is what in the moment I wanted, is the fight. 

[00:47:26] You know? 

[00:47:26] Mike: The question is why did you want that other thing? Why was that, was that giving you- I was angry, bro ... some kind of comfort? 

[00:47:31] Eldar: Well, yeah, because when, yeah, like- I was angry. I wanna make sure, you guys said like I'm fucking boiling inside.

[00:47:35] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:47:36] Eldar: I'm like, if I see you not boiling, like I'm like, "What's wrong with you?" 

[00:47:39] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:47:39] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, what's wrong with you? 

[00:47:41] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:47:41] Eldar: Like are you stupid? 

[00:47:42] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:47:42] Eldar: Uh, but obviously those things were common sense. It was making you feel the same way- 

[00:47:45] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:47:46] Eldar: internally.

[00:47:47] Mike: Yeah 

[00:47:48] Eldar: So that part of me is like, yeah, obviously you're supposed to be fucking feeling the same way.

[00:47:53] But the, the hindsight 20/20 now, I'm fucking looking back, I'm like, "Yeah, you guys should have snapped out of it faster." 

[00:47:58] Toliy: Yeah. No, and I, I def- yeah, yeah, if you 

[00:48:01] Mike: did- I don't, I don't know if I was... I'm not sure if, like, I was able to, because I didn't- 

[00:48:04] Eldar: Yes ... 

[00:48:05] Mike: But you're also, like, this thing, it made me go, it g- this thing, like, of injustice- 

[00:48:10] Eldar: Yeah

[00:48:10] Mike: it brings me back to, like, when there's, like, uh, I, we used to go to the league, play basketball. 

[00:48:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:16] Mike: Right? 

[00:48:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:17] Mike: And the league, and I'd see the refs- The refs ... like, doing terrible stuff. I would get so angry, bro. All the, uh, uh, sort of, like, things that were going through my head- 

[00:48:22] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:48:22] Mike: because of, like, some kind of, like, also my own psychological retardation- 

[00:48:26] Eldar: Yeah

[00:48:26] Mike: with this kind of thing happening. 

[00:48:27] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:28] Mike: Maybe I was like, you know, felt like- Yeah ... we're being bullied, being excluded. Correct. 

[00:48:32] Eldar: Wronged. 

[00:48:32] Mike: And I have, like, a PTSD from that. 

[00:48:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:34] Mike: And this thing made me feel like, "Yo, we're being targeted." Not because we're fucking anything. That's, uh, exactly. But I felt like this guy is intentionally trying to, like- Fuck us

[00:48:42] harm us. 

[00:48:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:43] Mike: And I was like, "Bro, this is not fuck, this is fucked up." 

[00:48:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:45] Mike: And I, I wanted to, like, do... I wanted to fuck him back, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For trying to fuck us. And 

[00:48:49] Toliy: I, I 

[00:48:49] Mike: didn't- You said you wanted to take the 

[00:48:51] Toliy: moldings- 

[00:48:51] Mike: Yeah. Like, I didn't feel that 

[00:48:51] Eldar: at all. Wait, wait, you said you wanted to take the moldings back, bro.

[00:48:53] Toliy: What? You're like- Well, no, like, that, that, that's out of, like, like- 

[00:48:57] Mike: Spite ... 

[00:48:57] Toliy: uh, no, not out of spite. But, like, to, to me, there's, like, a certain point where, like, again, you c- like, to me, like, you can make this very funny. Again, like, I wanted the lawyer to be like, "Yes, I'm wrong." Like, I wanted to hear that, because I thought it would be...

[00:49:07] it's, like, a funny kind of- Yeah ... kind of, like, scenario. But, like, no, I'd, like, yeah, I definitely did not feel that kind of way. I feel like I could've I could freely speak to any, any of these kinds of people. See, bro, that's why I can't tell you shit, 

[00:49:17] Eldar: bro. You ain't never around, you know? 

[00:49:18] Toliy: What do you mean?

[00:49:19] No, not, not- When I'm crying, I don't want you crying. Yeah. No. Now, now- You know what I'm

[00:49:25] saying? Yeah, no. Not yeah, like, th- th- I- ... this feedback gave it, uh, it, it confirmed that, like, I should have followed my intuition- 

[00:49:33] ... 

[00:49:33] Toliy: And, like, went, like, against you almost. Instead of, like, going against you, but then also, like- 

[00:49:38] Eldar: But you have to be able to take that on, you know what I'm saying?

[00:49:41] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:49:41] Eldar: I needed to be f- Yeah ... I needed to get a leader to f- Yeah ... to follow at that moment. 

[00:49:45] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:49:46] Eldar: You know what I... That's why I was hanging on to some of the things, some of the insights that you guys were bringing me. I needed those insights. 

[00:49:51] Toliy: Yeah, I, I definitely remember- Wh- which 

[00:49:52] Eldar: were 

[00:49:53] Toliy: true

[00:49:53] yeah, I definitely, like, looking back at it now, I definitely remember, like, uh, there, there are definitely some feelings of, like, not wanting to go against you, but I should have. 

[00:49:59] Eldar: Yeah. But 

[00:50:00] Toliy: I should have. 

[00:50:00] Eldar: Yeah. And I think it's true, it's true. No, but, but it's not necessarily against you, right? 

[00:50:03] Toliy: It's, it's- No, no, but it is.

[00:50:03] No, but- In that moment- 

[00:50:04] Eldar: I know. 

[00:50:05] Toliy: It is ... you, you need to be, like, again, it's like, when I'm crazy anxious and I'm telling you something- But Mike also did it, did it... 

[00:50:10] Eldar: Yeah, 

[00:50:10] Toliy: but- And, and you're, and, and, like, you're telling me, like, like, "This is BS, this is that," like, I'm furious at you in that moment.

[00:50:16] I'm like, "The fuck do you mean?" Like, this is not, like, serious, bro. Nah. Yeah, but 

[00:50:18] Eldar: totally, but I don't minimize, I don't minimize your shit. Don't fucking say that. 

[00:50:22] Toliy: No, no. I fucking- I'm not minimizing it. I'm saying that, like, the person that feels something, that they feel like other people are not able to feel it, you automatically feel there, there's a friction between you and that other person of, like- 

[00:50:32] Eldar: Yeah

[00:50:33] Toliy: they're, they're, they almost become an enemy to you at that- 

[00:50:36] Eldar: Sure, sure. But I think that- Because 

[00:50:38] Toliy: you're not 

[00:50:38] Eldar: able- Yes ... to, to, to break through But I think that, uh, y- I mean, you guys are smart enough, and I believe in you guys. Mike, you didn't come in with static and push me back, you challenged me through our insight.

[00:50:50] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:50:50] Eldar: You know what I mean? That you summoned a, a reason within me- Mm-hmm ... in that moment. 

[00:50:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:50:55] Eldar: We didn't fucking fight over that. No. I w- I, I like... Uh, you... I'm like, "You're right, Mike." You're like, "Yo, what would you rather be?" And I was like, "Yeah, you're right." Like, what would I rather be? Mm. You made me think.

[00:51:03] You challenged me, but like- Yeah ... you brought back what? The philosopher- Mm-hmm ... the reason in order to do that. Yeah. Toliy said the same shit. 

[00:51:08] Mike: Yeah. "

[00:51:08] Eldar: What money are we talking about, Elder?" Like, "What, what are we doing?" 

[00:51:11] Mike: Yeah. "

[00:51:12] Eldar: It's not that serious." And then I connected his money argument to the fact that like, yo, I don't give a fuck if this is a quarter of a million dollars hanging over our head here for th- this problem.

[00:51:20] Mm-hmm. I'm ready for that. 

[00:51:21] Fuck it, you know? 

[00:51:22] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:51:23] Eldar: So he's like, "Add 50 more on top of it. Who cares?" 

[00:51:26] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:26] Eldar: Who cares? And like that pushback is a reasonable pushback. Like, what can I... How can I give you static back if it's reason? You know what I mean? So don't underestimate the fact that like you can challenge and you can summon the reason out of it.

[00:51:39] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:51:40] Eldar: You know what I mean? Yeah. See, like- Despite the fact that I might be compromising, I might look scary or like angry 

[00:51:45] Toliy: at the- Yeah. See, I feel like the, the- ... at the moment. Yeah. Like to, to me at least the lesson I have internalized are like, yeah, if you feel that like you're carrying the, the, uh, truth, then you have to like, you have to fight back at all costs, you know?

[00:51:56] Mike: No, I think, I think part of it we're also compromised, but a part of it is also we're also like in a way arrogant too because like-

[00:52:07] In a way, yes. I- it's not just fully arrogant, but it's also we got ratted, right? Yeah. But also, like, if we got ratted, right, if he used the word install in a very specific way- Yeah ... and we didn't know this- 

[00:52:19] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:52:20] Mike: it's on him, but it's also like, okay, it's on him. 

[00:52:23] Eldar: He won. 

[00:52:24] Mike: He won. 

[00:52:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:52:25] Mike: You know? He won. And we shouldn't be upset because we didn't know what we're getting into.

[00:52:29] We didn't actually- We were operating out of 

[00:52:30] Eldar: common sense ... 

[00:52:31] Mike: educate. We were being arrogant, even the statements we were saying, like, "Yo, yeah, it's probably not that serious. Just get a generic lawyer," right? We kinda like agreed with that. 

[00:52:37] You know, was that me agreeing with you because I was like trusted you to say that?

[00:52:41] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:52:41] Mike: Or did I actually think about that, or did I believe that? And I, yeah, I thought it was just like this is a regular thing. We've done this already. This is our third time. 

[00:52:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:52:48] Mike: But the thing is Sako always says, "You really don't know shit, bruh." 

[00:52:51] Eldar: You really don't know. 

[00:52:53] Mike: So if we stick to that, and we really don't know shit, then and something happens that we didn't expect, then, like, we really didn't 

[00:52:58] Eldar: know.

[00:52:58] That was another good challenge. Yeah. And I agree with you on this as well. 

[00:53:00] Mike: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:53:01] Eldar: You're right. 

[00:53:02] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:03] Eldar: What I'm saying is that that wasn't present on the earlier time. 

[00:53:07] Mike: Yeah. And- No, I know. I know ... 

[00:53:09] Eldar: but I get it. You guys will also went through emotions. I told Catherine the same shit. She's like, "Babe, I'm here for you," yada, yada.

[00:53:13] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Like, "I know you're distant right now." But- "Like, you're not here." I'm like, "Babe, I ain't doing this shit on purpose." Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm fucking I'm somewhere else. Yeah. I 

[00:53:21] Toliy: got nothing to give. The, the thing is that in, in this process there's also like, yeah, like, yeah, like to a certain point, we're all pissed at, at, at particular times because one, we are right, but then we need to, we need to realize we're right in what courtroom.

[00:53:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:36] Toliy: In the courtroom- No, exactly ... of philosophy and, like- Yeah ... a morals, ethics, and being a decent person. Person, 

[00:53:41] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:53:41] Toliy: You could go to the grave to that. You could die, yeah. Like, yeah, with that. You're right, right? Yeah. But then you almost have to r- ye- yeah, and part of the process then to realize what playground are you playing in?

[00:53:50] In the playground that like, hey, you could be right, but this just- Yeah ... costs more to like, it like it doesn't make sense. You know? Yeah, because we lost in that other side, and then we have to just take that on the chin, and we did. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's perfectly fine if you... if we hire someone to, to build something and like they're a professional, and I don't know, you step on it and you fall through to the ground and you injure yourself, it's like could you be pissed?

[00:54:14] Yeah. But it's like, well, you hired someone to fucking do this who's supposed to know what they're doing. 

[00:54:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:19] Toliy: Right? 

[00:54:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:20] Toliy: So it's like, it's not like, I don't know, someone incompetent like me at building, right? That like- Yeah ... well, if I build a structure and it doesn't- 

[00:54:27] Eldar: Doesn't stand ... 

[00:54:27] Toliy: doesn't stand- It's expected

[00:54:28] I could be like, yeah, like okay, like- 

[00:54:30] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:54:30] Toliy: got it. Yeah. But- Mm-hmm ... you, yeah, if you hire a professional and they let you down- 

[00:54:34] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:54:34] Toliy: right? Or like- Yeah ... they're just not good enough or not, like, what- whatever enough, right? 

[00:54:39] Yeah, you could be upset, but it's yeah, 

[00:54:41] Eldar: like- So you still believe, go back to the sharing part.

[00:54:43] You still believe that I should have shared faster, more, even 

[00:54:46] Toliy: more- 

[00:54:47] Mike: No, I don't think, yeah ... on top of everything? I think the bigger issue is what you, what you said when you, when you called this out. I think that's much bigger. 

[00:54:53] Uh, I'm gonna tie it again to rock climbing. 

[00:54:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:56] Mike: You believing that I can do that- 

[00:54:58] Eldar: Yeah

[00:54:58] Mike: and pushing me to do it- Yeah ... it means nothing. 

[00:55:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:02] Mike: Because I have to believe it. 

[00:55:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:03] Mike: And I think that's what is the problem. 

[00:55:06] Well, 

[00:55:06] Toliy: well, it's a problem, but I also 

[00:55:08] Mike: think- No, no, that's a huge problem. That means that I actually have n- I don't have my own identity- But, but, but Toliy- ... in order to 

[00:55:12] Eldar: s- to believe in my- It's nice to have, though.

[00:55:14] What? It's nice to have the support, the fact that I can 

[00:55:17] Toliy: see what you can't see so then you can see it later. 

[00:55:20] Mike: You 

[00:55:20] Toliy: know? No, 

[00:55:20] Mike: it's part of- Sure, 

[00:55:21] Toliy: sure. 

[00:55:21] Mike: I 

[00:55:22] Toliy: understand ... no, it's part of the challenge, though. It, that that, that's part of the challenge is someone, some- someone seeing something that you can't see.

[00:55:29] It's just the question is, is that, like- 

[00:55:31] Mike: It's not about, the thing is, like, in, in that sense, it's not about something that we can't see. You can't see it because you actually don't believe in yourself to see it enough. You're not able to actually,

[00:55:41] Toliy: Yeah, but like- ... pay attention to what- You don't even know the, yeah, but then you don't even know that that's, that, that is actually the reality of things until someone else can see it.

[00:55:47] But, yeah. Until you then do it, and then you actually be like, "Oh, wow, that's actually real." Like, how would you ever know that that, that, that's real if Elor doesn't push you and then you don't actually do it, do 

[00:55:57] Mike: it? Sure, uh, sure. I understand that in, but the first time the trick works, second time the trick works.

[00:56:02] Well, no, it's not a trick. But eventually you have to actually know, like, "Hey, I don't actually believe in myself, and I have to"- Yeah, but my, 

[00:56:07] Eldar: well, I'm not sure if I would've g- been able to climb out to the same arguments that you guys gave me- ... uh, you know, by myself if I didn't share. 

[00:56:14] Mike: No, no, I'm, no, no, I, 

[00:56:16] Eldar: I, 

[00:56:17] Mike: no, I think the place we landed is good because I think we're learning a lot.

[00:56:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:56:20] Mike: And I think 

[00:56:21] Eldar: o- I'm saying that, like, you guys were instrumental in the helping me there. 

[00:56:24] Mike: I get it. 

[00:56:25] Eldar: Yeah. You know, it helped me. I would've probably came up with some other arguments to help myself- 

[00:56:28] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:56:29] Eldar: if I looked for more external help out there. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. I would've probably came to some conclusion, but it was definitely help.

[00:56:35] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:56:36] Eldar: You, you weren't just- 

[00:56:36] Mike: No, no, I know, I know. No, I'm not, I know that, but, like, what you said, we should, we, we could have done it earlier. 

[00:56:43] Eldar: Uh-huh. 

[00:56:43] Mike: Right? And but that's not even the argument. The argument is that y- what you said is that we giving, we were giving you what you wanted to hear and not what you needed to hear.

[00:56:52] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:56:52] Mike: And, and I think that is because we, m- in this case it's, we haven't actually, uh, me personally- 

[00:56:58] ... 

[00:56:58] Mike: Haven't formed my own identity in order to be able to speak like that, and I think that's the bigger problem. 

[00:57:03] Eldar: So what happened then on the, in Bermuda? W- where did that come from? Where, where, where was your thinking cap then?

[00:57:08] You, you put on your thinking cap and you started just like, "Oh, let me, let me come from a different angle"? 

[00:57:13] Mike: By the time we got to Bermuda- 

[00:57:15] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:57:15] Mike: I also went through all the stuff on my own in- internally- Yeah ... and I was sharing with you, like, the- 

[00:57:19] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:57:20] Mike: thing. I was like, "Hey, this is a different arena." That was a huge thing.

[00:57:22] After that, I understood of, like, what's happening here. 

[00:57:24] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:57:25] Mike: I was like, "We're f- doing philosophy in a world that's not operating- Yeah ... under these rules." 

[00:57:29] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:30] Mike: Uh, that was it. I was, I was like, out. Out of it. I was out of it. I was like, I moved on. 

[00:57:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:35] Mike: And obviously I would still get angry because we would still discover new things.

[00:57:38] Like, "Yo, this is fucking crazy. Like, how much more are we gonna get?" 

[00:57:40] Eldar: That's what I'm saying, 

[00:57:41] Mike: yeah. And I would have, like, still the instability. 

[00:57:43] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:43] Mike: Like, I would go hot to cold, but- But you found it quicker ... but I found it quicker, but- 

[00:57:46] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:57:47] Mike: but the reason I challenge you, because I was also able to understand that you were in a different place.

[00:57:53] And I was able to push that find that moment to sneak in to catch you- 

[00:57:57] ... 

[00:57:57] Mike: From a different angle, because I felt like you were more approachable. You weren't angry. Mm-hmm. We're on le- vacation. A little change of scenery. Obviously, I knew you were out of it. 

[00:58:04] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:58:04] Mike: Like, you weren't yourself. I couldn't enjoy it, yeah.

[00:58:05] The trip was, like, was off, for sure. But I felt like what was going on, I was able to insert that in an, like, a non-invasive dentist type of way. No, 

[00:58:14] Toliy: yeah. Oh my God. A non-invasive- 

[00:58:15] Mike: But I wasn't- ... 

[00:58:16] Toliy: mind stretch. 

[00:58:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:58:17] Toliy: No, you, no, I think it's, what's what you're- 

[00:58:21] Mike: I was able to gauge the situation. That's what it called for, and I was able to find you where you were let your guard down and you weren't gonna fight me.

[00:58:29] Yes. That, it- Because, because I was able to catch you in the moment that you were receptive. 

[00:58:32] Toliy: Yeah, it, I- 

[00:58:33] Eldar: Which is, which is your skill. 

[00:58:34] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:58:34] Eldar: Which is a skill I think that's very important to have. Yeah, 

[00:58:37] Mike: yeah. No, but I'm saying that, like- 

[00:58:38] Eldar: Which is knowing how to say it properly, know which angle to ask, how to ask a question.

[00:58:42] Yeah. You lead with a question, you know what 

[00:58:44] Mike: I mean? But I also, in that time, as we're talking about this- 

[00:58:47] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:58:47] Mike: I was reading a book that was just this, just about this, like- This book ... that specific thing. 

[00:58:52] So it's like it worked, the timing worked out perfectly and I was like, "This is actually super relevant."

[00:58:57] Eldar: Mm. 

[00:58:57] Mike: So- 

[00:58:58] I think, yeah, like one, one of the things that you s- guys say I'm able to bring out people, to bring out the vulnerabilities. Yeah. I think that's part of my thing, is I'm ab- I'm not, like, gonna say like, "Hey, you're a retard. This is, this is why." Yeah. I'm gonna be like, "Hey, so this is what a retard looks like, and this is what this retard did."

[00:59:15] Yeah. More so, like, I'm gonna help you to connect the dot- Yeah ... instead of, like, kind of forcing it for- Yeah ... to call you an idiot, I wanna help you to discover that you're an idiot. 

[00:59:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:59:24] Mike: You know? Or to share it. Yeah. I'm gonna try to do it in a way that's not gonna, like, be attacking you or try to, you know- Mm

[00:59:30] call you out, like, for your mistakes- Okay ... or something like that. Oh, 

[00:59:32] Eldar: so you tapped in? 

[00:59:34] Mike: Sure. Yeah. 

[00:59:36] Eldar: You tapped in. 

[00:59:37] Toliy: Yeah. Yes. No, for, for me at least, yeah, it, I um, when I'm replaying it, I definitely re- think that it, it's difficult to go against you when you're, like, amped up and when you're, like, hot about something, in that kind of way.

[00:59:47] But I think I could and I, I think I should have and I could have. 

[00:59:52] Eldar: See? You made me suffer, man. 

[00:59:53] Toliy: Yeah, I think I did. For longer than 

[00:59:54] Eldar: I 

[00:59:54] Toliy: should. Yeah. 

[00:59:55] Eldar: You wanted to see that. 

[00:59:56] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. My, my, yeah, my- He likes you being compromised, 

[00:59:58] Eldar: man ... my initial- I think you- 

[00:59:59] Toliy: Yeah, my initial- He wanted 

[00:59:59] Eldar: to see the chink in the armor.

[01:00:01] Toliy: No, my- 

[01:00:01] Eldar: He always says, "Oh, you never struggle with anything." Yeah, 

[01:00:03] Toliy: yeah. No, my initial intuition- You know you have everything figured out. Yeah ... my initial intuition, honestly, was to go against you in how you were feeling. 

[01:00:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:00:10] Toliy: No, I, I didn't have that at all. But I froze. But- Yeah ... but during the process, I definitely feel like I froze, and then I was like, I don't wanna be a pussy here either.

[01:00:18] Yeah. But like, the initial thing was like, it wasn't that. I should have just fucking, Yeah, I should have just went like, if I felt a particular way, I should have just went against you in the beginning, even when you were furious and, like, hot, rather than like, um- Not doing that, I think. 

[01:00:34] Mike: But again, we wouldn't it's also how would that have played out?

[01:00:37] Would it, would that have worked to get to all that? Well, that, that's 

[01:00:40] Toliy: what I'm saying. No, it wouldn't. It felt like, yeah. None of it. It felt like, yeah, 

[01:00:41] Mike: it felt like it was not- 'Cause you were, you were, you were gone. Yeah. Like, bro, there was like, there was even like a conversation that you guys were having, right?

[01:00:48] Yeah. You and, and us, we were sitting. 

[01:00:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:00:51] Mike: And like, it got so regurgitated I had to eject myself out of it because like you, you, like you were like going over it so much- Yeah ... just repeating the same stuff. I was like, "Yo, I can't-" Enough ... it's enough. Like- Yeah ... like let's move on. 

[01:01:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:01:03] Mike: 'Cause I already- Yeah

[01:01:04] checked out. We already said it's dead, but there was still more discussion and, and so- Yeah ... I just like, I left the room, I went to, or I went to my desk. I remember like- Mm ... we were, we're having the conversation. I was like, "

[01:01:12] Eldar: Yo." You're also a coward, man. Ran away. 

[01:01:16] Mike: No, but because we already said 

[01:01:18] Eldar: it's dead. I'm joking.

[01:01:18] I know. I know. And I 

[01:01:19] Mike: was like, "Guys, if it's 

[01:01:19] Eldar: dead, it's dead." And that's why I'm ex- I'm explaining to you- Yeah ... that looking back at it, 'cause I spoke a little bit about Catherine with it. Mm-hmm. And I was telling her, like, look, guys, I know you guys have my back, I know you guys were there, but you weren't there.

[01:01:29] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:01:30] Eldar: That's what I noticed and felt. 

[01:01:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:01:32] Eldar: But it's 

[01:01:32] Toliy: also difficult to, i- it's difficult specifically to go, like I could go against anyone, but it's difficult to go against you. Yeah. 

[01:01:39] Mike: Well, I think that- Because like you're, you're, you know? ... and I think that's the thing. That's the, that's the thing.

[01:01:42] It's like, um, I think that's a big problem because yeah, elder, elder, elder, but like then it's like you bypass your own ability to think and reason and use logic just because- 

[01:01:55] Eldar: Well, the thing is, if I was wrong- 

[01:01:57] Mike: Yeah ... 

[01:01:57] Eldar: you should definitely tell me. Yeah. But- But the problem is, I don't think you guys knew that I was wrong

[01:02:01] Mike: and I, I think that's also a part of it, too. We didn't know. 

[01:02:03] Eldar: Yeah. We all were right together. 

[01:02:05] Mike: We all were right in the way, 

[01:02:06] Eldar: in the- If I, unless, unless something was presented to me... Like today, you guys heard that fucking conversation? 

[01:02:13] Mike: Which one? 

[01:02:13] Eldar: Uh, with the fucking healthcare guy? Yeah. Yeah. That was today, correct?

[01:02:16] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:02:17] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:02:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:02:18] Eldar: That conversation was, I was coming with a crazy MO under the impression that I was right. 

[01:02:22] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:02:23] Eldar: Yes or no? 

[01:02:23] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:02:24] Eldar: Yeah. You all heard it. 

[01:02:25] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:02:25] Eldar: Right? And then line by line, he shut me down and said, "Yo, my man, you're wrong." 

[01:02:31] And guess what? I turned around and said, "Yo- Oh, shit. 

[01:02:35] You're right. Yeah. I might be wrong here. 

[01:02:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:02:37] Eldar: You know what I... Because you over there waving some shit, I'm like, "What the fuck?"

[01:02:40] Toliy: Yeah. Well, yeah, if he's gonna continue to bring fact- Yes ... fact after fact- 

[01:02:44] Eldar: I, I, I couldn't, I couldn't- Yeah ... go and keep being a ridiculous individual. You know what I mean?

[01:02:49] No. That's, that's retarded, bro. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, how can I continue to stick to my guns here, uh, defending my wife, you know- Mm-hmm ... which I supposed to, right? Quote, unquote. 

[01:02:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:02:58] Eldar: No, I, after you've presented the facts, like, w- like, I'm done. My hands are tied. Yeah. Like, yo, bro, you might be right, I'm not really sure here.

[01:03:04] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:03:05] Eldar: I backed off. I, I said, "I appreciate your help." 

[01:03:08] Mike: Yeah. And 

[01:03:08] Eldar: that's it. 

[01:03:09] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:03:09] Eldar: This is what, this is what I'm talking about. In our case, this wasn't a fucking black and white situation. 

[01:03:14] Mike: No. 

[01:03:15] Eldar: You know what I mean? So I'm not sure if Toliy could've challenged me earlier- Yeah ... on some stuff to go again, because you shared the right with me.

[01:03:23] Toliy: No, but I 

[01:03:24] Eldar: think I put a- What, what was wrong about our argument that you could say, "Yo, Eldar, shut the fuck up, you're wrong-" 

[01:03:29] Toliy: No, I, I think it was the, uh- "... like this guy did today"? It, it was a thing of, like, saying of, like, which, like... It, it was... I, I think it was more about figuring out which playground we're, we're playing in, which then, I think creates the right track of, like, how to pursue things and how to go about things.

[01:03:45] Mike: Yeah. That, that to me- Also, yeah, you- ... was, like, 

[01:03:47] Toliy: the direction 

[01:03:47] Mike: of that ... regardless of what was said, any logic, you were so amped up, I don't, I don't know if you would've... 

[01:03:52] Eldar: No, but then you're saying that I'm not, I wasn't reasonable. If I wasn't reasonable, I'd, I'd love to replay that whole tape back, everything back from this, from the cameras.

[01:03:59] Oh, 

[01:04:00] Mike: no, 

[01:04:00] Eldar: I- Just to see, like, what was I saying- No, I don't think any- ... was I being unreasonable, bro? Yeah, 

[01:04:02] Toliy: no, I think that we- You know? ... could have been more stronger with reason faster right away- 

[01:04:07] Eldar: Correct ... 

[01:04:07] Toliy: versus- Correct. Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:04:08] Eldar: That's the only thing. 

[01:04:09] Toliy: Sure- That I think for sure ... 

[01:04:10] Eldar: sure in the time is to get to the logical arguments- Yes

[01:04:13] in order to say, like, "Yo, it's not that serious." Yeah. "Shut 

[01:04:14] Toliy: the fuck up." But I also recognize now, again, I, I think it's difficult be- because it's also, like, you are correct so often- 

[01:04:22] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:04:23] Toliy: that you almost have to, like, you, like... I definitely double take myself to see, like- 

[01:04:27] Eldar: Yeah ... "

[01:04:27] Toliy: Am I right?" 

[01:04:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:04:29] Toliy: Even though, like, my initial thing is that, like, I could be correct on something- 

[01:04:32] Eldar: Yeah

[01:04:32] Toliy: but I almost have a double take because, like, you're usually not wrong. 

[01:04:36] Eldar: I don't think I was wrong here, bro. I was... What I was wrong in is in holding that cup long enough, like Joe said. 

[01:04:42] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:04:42] Eldar: Why do you wanna hold it that long? 

[01:04:44] Toliy: And that long and, like, al- al- also it's a matter of, like, yeah, like, w- like, in what r- r- arena are you- Yeah, holding this

[01:04:51] right or wrong 

[01:04:52] Eldar: in? 

[01:04:52] Toliy: Exactly. You know? 

[01:04:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:04:53] Toliy: Like- 

[01:04:54] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we were- 

[01:04:55] Toliy: Yeah, like morally- ... we're 

[01:04:57] Mike: trying 

[01:04:57] Eldar: to f- ... you could definitely bring this home ... 

[01:04:58] Toliy: our own thing. Morally, you could bring this home, 100%. 

[01:05:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:05:00] Toliy: You know? Like, all day. 

[01:05:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:05:02] Toliy: Because it's like, there, there's no question here. 

[01:05:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:05:05] Toliy: You know? 

[01:05:06] Eldar: Bro, and I fucking, we met today with them, bro.

[01:05:08] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, like, these fucking guys, bro, you know? 

[01:05:11] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:05:12] Eldar: Bunch of losers, man. 

[01:05:13] Toliy: Yeah. One guy's afraid to fucking hear, hear, like, ha- have someone else hear what they think about him. Yeah. The, the guy has two left feet. 

[01:05:20] Eldar: Yeah. You know? Like- It's embarrassing 

[01:05:23] Toliy: Yeah, it's embarrassing 

[01:05:25] Eldar: You know what I mean?

[01:05:26] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:05:26] Eldar: That is why when I was amped up, guess what? I wanted to f- meet them face to face. Yeah. 

[01:05:30] Toliy: Mm-hmm. That's why when I didn't get that- And I didn't get moving ... they said, "Yo, don't pass that guy the ball because then everyone's gonna know." 

[01:05:34] Eldar: They're gonna know, 

[01:05:35] Toliy: yeah. They, they, they were doing that too. They were preserving this, uh, image- 

[01:05:39] Eldar: This image, yeah

[01:05:39] Toliy: of who they are. Yeah. And then when you saw that like, yo, these guys are like flu- fluffy bunnies- 

[01:05:44] Eldar: They're fucking retards, 

[01:05:45] Toliy: bro ... you know, and you're afraid of a fluffy bunny. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know? 

[01:05:47] Eldar: Yeah. Or, 

[01:05:47] Toliy: or like, you know, feeling like in beef with a fluffy bunny, then it becomes like, yo. 

[01:05:52] Eldar: Yeah. That's it. All acting nice, apologizing and stuff like- Mm-hmm

[01:05:57] just come on, we could've left with that. You know what I mean? Talking about I'm a relationship guy. 

[01:06:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:06:02] Eldar: I'm a relationship guy, my man. 

[01:06:03] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:06:05] Eldar: I've told them 

[01:06:06] Toliy: that No, they, they want to be relationship-y people, but they're retards. They cannot- 

[01:06:11] Eldar: They're far from it. 

[01:06:12] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:06:13] Eldar: Yeah. All right. Well, you're saying share more even faster.

[01:06:19] I, I, I, I mean, I, I, in myself, like you al- we always talk about what do you learn? What do you wanna learn from this? More for me, I gotta get stronger, have thicker skin to make sure that I don't have to even bring this shit, to the table- Hmm ... at all or affect anyone else. I don't- 

[01:06:34] Toliy: No, but see, that, that's also like- Toliy 

[01:06:36] Eldar: would disagree.

[01:06:37] Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause he said, yo, yo, you feel like you burdening them and like- 

[01:06:39] Toliy: Yeah, no ... 

[01:06:39] Eldar: yeah, I don't, 

[01:06:40] Toliy: like, 

[01:06:40] Eldar: you 

[01:06:40] Toliy: know? Sure, sure. Everybody wants to just, hey, like, yeah- Me and Mike- ... I just need to be fucking better. Like, yeah, sure. Yeah, but you- But if you're if you're not, you need to be you to me, you need to share and be as loud as possible and challenge back as much as possible because the faster you can get into that kind of, that, that kind of fight, the more that you can be, be challenged and welcome, like, the challenge.

[01:07:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:07:01] Toliy: But if, but if you have a thing about like, "I don't want others to go through some kind of pain," and then you harbor it on your own, then like, yeah, then like, like that to me is more of like a, uh, like an arrogant way to go about it. 

[01:07:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:13] Yeah. 

[01:07:14] Toliy: Because, like, you, you just wanna hold all this, like, pain when the pain is like- 

[01:07:18] Eldar: Well, no, I'm not, no, I'm, I'm not talking about that

[01:07:19] the pain's 

[01:07:19] Toliy: actually 

[01:07:20] Eldar: not that serious if- I'm not ta- yeah, I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about, uh, next time around if I go through the stress, you know what I mean? Yeah. No, I wanna be able to be more equipped to be able to handle certain stresses and, and react faster and be better so then I don't have to spread it.

[01:07:35] Mm-hmm. This is what I'm talking about. 

[01:07:36] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:07:36] Eldar: You know what I mean? Obviously, you probably feel the same way, like you, you know, you wanna cope with shit and know how to cope with it without needing to hurt others- Mm-hmm ... you know what I mean, to some degree because- Yeah ... ultimately, what do we do, Mike? Like, when we started this journey on this fucking shit, we're just like, "Yeah, we'll get this done.

[01:07:51] This is easy." Like- 

[01:07:52] Mike: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:07:52] Eldar: fucking get some permits, you know. Yeah. Mike, you were spearheading this shit, like- Mm-hmm ... you know, like, relieving me from some of this nonsense, you know? 

[01:07:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:07:59] Eldar: Obviously the intention was what? Like, smooth fucking sailing. Yeah. You asked, "Hey, wanna involve your dad?" No, Mike let's stay away from that fucking static- Mm-hmm

[01:08:06] you know what I mean? Let's make it smooth. Yeah. The intentions was to make sure we don't get involved the whole fucking network here. You know, we got everyone involved. Mm-hmm. Everybody knows the story. 

[01:08:16] Mike: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:08:16] Eldar: You know? Like, that's ridiculous. 

[01:08:18] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:08:18] Eldar: Right? Like, the whole point is to, like, make it smooth as possible, get in and get out, forget about it.

[01:08:23] Mike: Yeah, I mean- 

[01:08:24] Eldar: But this was our intention, right, Michael? 

[01:08:26] Mike: Obviously. That was our intention, and I think we, we were try- we were trying to do it that way. 

[01:08:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:08:31] Mike: But- 

[01:08:31] Eldar: And then we start hitting road bumps, road bump after road bump, you know? 

[01:08:34] Mike: Yeah. I think because, like- 

[01:08:37] Eldar: But we definitely, uh, definitely we, because of the fact that our nature and our philosophical background and, and ethics and morals, the roots of it, made a mountain out of a molehill.

[01:08:48] Yeah. Because this is a molehill in the, that business space. Yeah. They're like, "This is regular shit." That, that's what it is. And I 

[01:08:53] Mike: think, yeah. Yeah. It's a fucking nothing. I think, uh, I think, yeah. I 

[01:08:55] Eldar: think that's, that's a big- In our space, it's a fucking giant in this room. Well, no, yeah. In ethical- You're eating away at my self-esteem, bro.

[01:09:00] Yeah. You know what I'm saying? 

[01:09:01] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, in the ethical battle, everything is a mountain. 

[01:09:04] Eldar: Yeah But yeah Yeah It's a f- you know what I'm saying? Because this is who we are grounded as. 

[01:09:09] Mike: But, but it's also- Like, yo, we're getting violated here ... yeah, it's more, and m- again, and more like says, like, the right application and the right time, you know?

[01:09:16] Like we're, we're- 

[01:09:19] Eldar: But the, but, but the whole, the whole premise of all this thing is to be able to marry the two- Yeah ... and fuck shit up. 

[01:09:25] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:09:26] Eldar: That's, that's how I feel. You know what I'm saying? I don't ever wanna feel like a fucking noob back, back on, on that fucking stage. Yeah. That's how I feel. 

[01:09:32] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:33] Eldar: I don't look at it as like, "Nah, that's not my area anymore."

[01:09:36] I told you, like, I've never been like, "Yo, I wanna make more money." Fuck, I wanna make as much money as possible now. Mm-hmm. I wanna fuck everyone because they don't know what the fuck they're doing. That's how I feel. 

[01:09:44] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:44] Yeah. Yeah. But I think- 

[01:09:46] Eldar: That, that's my competitive nature talking. 

[01:09:48] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[01:09:48] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[01:09:49] Mike: Yeah, yeah. That's one, uh, like one extreme, the competitive side. 

[01:09:53] Eldar: Well, yeah. I'm also comfortable with it. 

[01:09:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:09:55] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[01:09:56] Mike: But I think, I think s- somewhere in all of this- 

[01:09:59] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:09:59] Mike: is still that main word that we like to use in Buddhism is the balance. 

[01:10:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:03] Mike: You have to know to apply- Yes

[01:10:04] the right thing in the right time. 

[01:10:06] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:10:06] Mike: We're trying over there to ham hog this philosophy bullshit. I'm gonna use bullshit. 

[01:10:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:10] Mike: Because to those people, this is bullshit. 

[01:10:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:12] Mike: To us, it's up here. 

[01:10:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:14] Mike: To them, it's down here. 

[01:10:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:15] Mike: We have to find the middle- Yeah ... and which is s- a place that we can live in.

[01:10:20] Like, all the stress that this entailed- Yeah, 

[01:10:22] Eldar: yeah ... 

[01:10:23] Mike: it's not, there's no number you can put on it. 

[01:10:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:25] Mike: And I think that's where we were, and I, I guess it sounds like we're arrogantly trying to do philosophy in a place where it didn't, it doesn't, you, this... It's not like- 

[01:10:35] Eldar: Y-

[01:10:36] Mike: and if you are gonna do philosophy, then you have to be a fucking lawyer- 

[01:10:39] Eldar: Yes

[01:10:40] Mike: a fucking architect- Yeah ... and then you can lose philosophy- Yeah ... because your contract is bulletproof. Yeah. Everything is bulletproof because you have- Yeah ... the knowledge, and you married it with the fucking philosophy. You're right. But we didn't have the knowledge- Yeah ... but we're trying to marry the philosophy.

[01:10:51] Yes. 

[01:10:52] Toliy: But I also don't even know if there's like, to have bulletproof, for example, like, contracts I think is also very, 

[01:10:57] Mike: very- No, I understand. I'm, I'm, I'm just trying to- Well, but, but be more prepared. Like- Yeah ... even the 

[01:11:01] Eldar: common 

[01:11:01] Mike: sense should- Be more prepared ... you know, you know? Yeah, be more prepared.

[01:11:03] When 

[01:11:03] Toliy: I mentioned- No, like yeah, but if you're hiring an attorney, again, like- 

[01:11:06] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:11:06] Toliy: you're not supposed to know those things. 

[01:11:08] Eldar: I agree. 

[01:11:09] Toliy: I agree. 

[01:11:10] Mike: Like you're hiring- Yes, yes ... you know? But we also, w- the thing is, again, we arrogantly hire the attorney. We're like, "Oh, it's not that serious." We don't know anything about that, but we're making that judgment.

[01:11:19] We've never done construction before, so that's another element. We've never done construction with another person before. Like, we kinda thought like it is easy-peasy. Because we're easygoing people, we generally, like, don't- 

[01:11:29] Toliy: I, no, but that, no, but yeah, but a lot of the lessons are there. But also plenty of people get screwed.

[01:11:34] Now I was bringing this examples before, plenty of deals and contracts and stuff like that get screwed even at much higher levels- Higher levels, yeah ... where you would think, again, you have better lawyers, expensive lawyers, expensive- Mm-hmm ... better contract. Like, I, I don't know, better everything, right?

[01:11:50] Mm-hmm. But they're still static every time. There's still issues. There's still things that were not thought about or discussed. Mm-hmm. Like, so it's like, yeah, like to cover every single point at all times, like, you know, it's tough when you wanna- I 

[01:12:01] Mike: don't think we're, I don't think it's trying to cover every single point at all times.

[01:12:05] I think it's finding the middle ground where... And I don't know what that looks like, but finding that middle ground. We definitely were not prepared in order to be into this, Oh, we'll be prepared- ... from a legal perspective ... oh, we'll be 

[01:12:16] Eldar: prepared 

[01:12:16] Mike: next time ... and that's like I don't, to me that's non-negotiable.

[01:12:18] I understand, like, on my own account, I made mistakes, like didn't vet the lawyer properly, didn't think like, "Hey, this is really cheap, or this is too much," and that's from my own arrogance or from being s- like cheap- Yeah, but this is also part of the process and- ... 

[01:12:31] Toliy: you know, cheap, cheap. Yeah. Possibly, yeah.

[01:12:32] Yeah, but this is also part of the process and, like, again, like, like I said, "Hey, if, like, we could spend X amount of time and, like, money in this to learn this, like, this is money well spent." 

[01:12:43] Eldar: That's right. That's a good- Yeah. That's a good point. 

[01:12:44] Toliy: You know? It 

[01:12:44] Mike: is money well 

[01:12:45] Toliy: spent, yeah. Because again, 

[01:12:46] Eldar: like- It is

[01:12:46] like I was- But as long, as long as we learned. 

[01:12:48] Toliy: Yes. Mm-hmm. But I think it's also- Um, yeah ... impossible. N- we're not gonna learn everything, you know? Yeah. No. But we're definitely gonna be much better prepared next time. 

[01:12:56] Eldar: Yeah, but the thing is- All right. All right, all right, all right. S- having said that- Mm-hmm

[01:12:59] having said, how do you feel about the fact that the floor wasn't skimmed?

[01:13:06] Oh, that, that, like that, that thing Your boy, your boy promised that he's gonna do skim the floor and, uh, put the bolts in- 

[01:13:09] Toliy: Oh, well- ... to put the screen in ... he better not send an invoice for that 

[01:13:11] Eldar: Good. 

[01:13:11] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:13:12] Eldar: You see? Good. 

[01:13:13] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:13:14] Eldar: Toliy will have a conversation with him. 

[01:13:15] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Oh, I definitely will. 

[01:13:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:13:17] Eldar: Good. 

[01:13:18] Toliy: Yeah.

[01:13:18] Yeah. All right. 

[01:13:19] Eldar: Yeah, the thing 

[01:13:19] Toliy: is- Yeah ... what we learned- Even, even if he says he did, I'm willing to pay for some of the panels to be taken off to show me where- To show 

[01:13:24] Eldar: me. 

[01:13:25] Toliy: Where ... and do laboratory testing in that area. 

[01:13:26] Eldar: Yeah, in that area. 

[01:13:28] Toliy: See, like that, that's like the funnier part. Yeah. You know? 'Cause I know that he's not gonna go there.

[01:13:31] Eldar: Yeah. He's not gonna go 

[01:13:33] Toliy: there. 

[01:13:33] Eldar: No. 

[01:13:34] Toliy: Yeah. No. He'd rather say, "Fuck the 1,000." 

[01:13:36] Eldar: Yeah. Good. 

[01:13:37] Yeah. 

[01:13:39] Mike: Yeah, also, like, and a thing, in this thing, it shows us we don't know, but we maybe felt we knew some stuff based on the decisions we made. 

[01:13:46] Eldar: Yeah. But as bad, as bad as it, as it looked or as bad as it was, like, I, now that I- I'm over it, I'm, I mean, I have this all the time.

[01:13:54] I'm not mad at it no more. 

[01:13:56] Like, I need, I needed that. I needed that. And I think 

[01:13:58] Mike: that's 

[01:13:59] Eldar: because the, the lesson- I think we all needed that as a team. 

[01:14:00] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:14:01] Eldar: You know what I mean? We all learned something. Mm-hmm. As long as we learn something through it, we can move on together, and we'll be stronger next time.

[01:14:07] We're 100% gonna be stronger next time. 

[01:14:09] Mike: Yeah, of course. 

[01:14:10] Eldar: Yeah, no matter how you spin this. Of course. 

[01:14:11] Toliy: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. You know? I mean, like, the lesson from, like, maybe, like, the personal construction we did was that like, hey, you need an architect. You need, like, official- Yeah ... like, for example, like things.

[01:14:21] Mm-hmm. You need to do that. 

[01:14:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:22] Toliy: That was, like, an automatic response, right? Yeah, 

[01:14:23] Eldar: which we did. 

[01:14:24] Toliy: You didn't even consider- 

[01:14:25] Eldar: We... Yes ... 

[01:14:26] Toliy: well, the, uh, the other way. No 

[01:14:27] Eldar: dad, architect Mike. Yes. Do it 

[01:14:28] Toliy: right. We were... Yeah. What was that? Permits. That was from- That ... lessons. 

[01:14:31] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:14:32] Toliy: Right? 

[01:14:32] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:14:32] Toliy: But you can also now have a lesson saying, "Hey, even if you have someone that is a so-called professional something, they might be fucking bad at it."

[01:14:39] Eldar: Yeah. Yes. 

[01:14:41] Toliy: And if that's the case, then, like, you're also kind of taking on that responsibility. Like- Yeah ... them being bad- 

[01:14:47] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:14:47] Toliy: is gonna affect you obviously. 

[01:14:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:49] Toliy: It's not like, "Hey, oh, no, like, you, like that person's responsible." Yeah. Like, right? Even though that, to me, that's how it should be, right?

[01:14:56] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah 

[01:14:59] Toliy: Right? Like, i- and like, um, but al- also if you think about it, a lot of these als- all these professions, like hey, like I don't know, you go to a doctor, like they relieve themselves from like responsibility of like you need to do a major surgery- Yeah ... you gotta sign a waiver like, "Yo, if you die, like- 

[01:15:13] Eldar: Mm-hmm.

[01:15:13] Yeah, 

[01:15:13] Toliy: yeah. Sorry ... can't talk to- Sorry, no sorry ... you know? 

[01:15:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:16] Toliy: But yeah, you're putting your kind of life, right, and your livelihood in someone else's hands. Yeah. 

[01:15:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:21] Toliy: But they're not willing to take responsibility for it either. 

[01:15:23] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:15:23] Toliy: Because they also know, you see, they also fucking know there is fucking margin for error.

[01:15:27] Eldar: There is. Mm-hmm. 

[01:15:28] Toliy: There is. And they're not willing to take that responsibility. 

[01:15:30] Eldar: So going back to the topic. 

[01:15:32] Of what we talked about. The fact that a lot of times we need that pause, right? Or that, 'cause we know there's margins of for error that need to be left out before we jump into the pool, before we do the goal that we set out to do.

[01:15:47] Toliy: But you, but in order to do that again, I think that you need particular skills to even like, yeah, implementing any of this for like most people it's like, it's like it's impossible. 

[01:16:01] Eldar: But Socrates said it's super necessary. Unexamined life's not worth living, man. 

[01:16:04] Toliy: Yeah. But to live an examined life, it's a, uh-

[01:16:10] No, I don't even know, might as we- like some people might think that they're, they're just better off being ignorant. You know? 

[01:16:16] Eldar: You're talking about- I don't know ... you're talking about Cyrus the virus, 

[01:16:18] Toliy: man- Yeah ... from, from The Matrix. I, I don't know, you know? Because it's like you're talking about to do that, you also then need to have the ability to be honest with yourself- 

[01:16:26] Yeah

[01:16:26] to be able to evaluate things. But like, like I, I f- I feel like every skill we talk about requires so much skill and ability to like- 

[01:16:35] Eldar: To get it right ... 

[01:16:36] Toliy: to get it right, yeah, and to actually do it that, like- 

[01:16:39] Eldar: But there's a lot of benefit though. 

[01:16:40] Toliy: Of course there's a lot of benefit. 

[01:16:43] Eldar: It's worth it or no?

[01:16:45] Is it not worth it? It's worth it to seek it. Are you living a g- a better life? 

[01:16:48] Toliy: It's worth it to seek it, yeah. 

[01:16:49] Eldar: It's worth it. 

[01:16:49] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:16:50] Eldar: Sure. 

[01:16:51] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's okay to die trying. 

[01:16:54] Eldar: I agree with you on that. I think this is why we're doing it. 

[01:16:56] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:16:57] Eldar: This is why we're doing it for the people that are listening

[01:17:04] Do we have any final thoughts regarding this fucking thing? Hmm. Do we have any suggestions for the people that are listening? Because everyone is going through something right now in their heads. Right? They're sitting there like, "Oh, I always wanted to pick up that book. I always wanted to lose weight.

[01:17:23] You know, I wanna- always wanted to start something new." But the sitting in this, in this gap 

[01:17:29] Toliy: Yeah, I think it's be honest with what do you feel is, like, holding you back, and be okay with being honest- Mm-hmm ... with those things. But then if you are honest with those things, then the, the thing is to actually do them.

[01:17:45] Eldar: Follow 

[01:17:45] Toliy: through. Or don't do them. Yeah, if you say that, like, "Hey," like, "I'm overwhelmed. I need to have, like, at least the next two weeks-" 12 ... straight of, like, great sleep- 

[01:17:53] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:17:53] Toliy: before I even think about anything." 

[01:17:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:17:55] Toliy: Go get that sleep. 

[01:17:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:17:56] Toliy: But then- 

[01:17:57] Eldar: Pivot- 

[01:17:58] Toliy: Like- ... 

[01:17:58] Eldar: for a moment ... 

[01:17:58] Toliy: the, the reason all of these things happen and the reason I think that none of these solutions get implemented regardless, it's because everyone is selling out for their desires.

[01:18:06] And they're constantly doing that. When they say they need more rest, they take on more fucking shit. Why? Why? 

[01:18:12] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:18:12] Toliy: You just said that you're overwhelmed- 

[01:18:15] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:18:15] Toliy: and you're gonna do more shit? 

[01:18:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:18:18] Toliy: Why does this happen? It's because you're selling out for some kind of desire. So because you're selling out for some kind of de- desire, you cannot follow any kind of internal plan as to what you should actually be doing.

[01:18:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:18:32] Toliy: And e- and the more you continue to go against yourself in that kind of way, the more necessary suffering that you're going to experience, which is perfectly normal. 

[01:18:42] Eldar: And just. 

[01:18:43] Toliy: And just. Mm-hmm. It is, because you're, you're a, a, a selling-out rat. You're saying you need rest, but you're doing more.

[01:18:50] What are you doing? 

[01:18:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:18:52] Toliy: Why do you continue to do to do this? 

[01:18:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:18:55] Toliy: It's because you continue to want to have, um... Like, you continue to wanna eat the fucking apple. 

[01:19:01] Eldar: Oh my God, you're gonna bring it back that far? 

[01:19:06] Toliy: Is it not? Why do people that need rest constantly do more work? 

[01:19:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:11] Toliy: Tell me why. 

[01:19:12] Eldar: The, the desire The original sin.

[01:19:16] Mike is totally right. He's totally onto something. 

[01:19:20] Toliy: Good fucking- Yeah ... bastards, you know? 

[01:19:21] Eldar: Bastards. The 

[01:19:22] Toliy: bastards. 

[01:19:24] Eldar: Yeah, I agree with him. Yeah, I do too. 

[01:19:26] Toliy: Yeah, like we, we, we can't just say that like, "Hey, you know what?" I don't know, like- 

[01:19:33] Eldar: That's a very humble take though, right, to do. 

[01:19:35] Toliy: What? 

[01:19:35] Eldar: To be able to take that, like, "Hey, I'm overwhelmed right now, I'm just gonna relax."

[01:19:38] Toliy: Well, well what happens when you have humble and good takes? Do you get good things? 

[01:19:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:19:43] Toliy: Do you get the necessary rest that you need- Yeah ... for example? 

[01:19:45] Eldar: Yeah. And the necessary outcomes, good outcomes. Do 

[01:19:47] Toliy: you get a clearer mind? Do you get better outcomes? And then the funny thing is that, the paradoxical thing in general, when you actually take that take, that humble take, you can actually accomplish what you want to accomplish- Everything

[01:20:01] every time. Mm-hmm. 

[01:20:02] Eldar: Yeah, it's a sick paradox. 

[01:20:03] Toliy: But you don't believe it, which is why you eat the fucking apple every time. You fucking bastard. 

[01:20:08] Eldar: Tolis is a bastard, right? 

[01:20:09] Toliy: He's a bastard. 

[01:20:10] Eldar: He's a bastard. 

[01:20:11] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:20:12] Eldar: Tolis, my cousin from Greece, if you're listening, you're a bastard. 

[01:20:15] Toliy: You're a bastard, yeah. You're a desiring bastard.

[01:20:17] Eldar: Yeah. And everyone else who's fucking listening, you bunch of bastards. 

[01:20:22] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:20:22] Eldar: Subscribe, fucking share to all the other bastards out there. 

[01:20:25] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:20:25] Eldar: Should we just refer to all our listeners as bastards going forward? Is that appropriate? Or like w- we're just gonna lose them? But who gives a fuck, right? 

[01:20:34] Toliy: Yeah, they're bastards.

[01:20:35] Eldar: They're bastards anyway- You know? ... like if we lose them or not. Yeah. Guys, we're all bastards. Yeah. So you guys are bastards too. 

[01:20:41] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:20:41] You 

[01:20:41] Eldar: know? Stop eating the fucking apple, you know, and, uh, take care of yourself, take care of your soul, love yourself a little bit. If you're stalling or, uh, have a failure to launch situation, it's okay.

[01:20:52] Don't be too hard on yourself. Give yourself a little bit of grace, relax, get some sleep, drink some wine, unwind, and then get back to it. All right. Thank you guys. This was great. Fucking bastards.