216. The Good Life Trap

Why do people who seemingly "have it all" still suffer from a silent, chronic internal frustration?

In this week's episode, we welcome you into our brand-new studio space to unpack the ultimate blueprint for a good life and expose the systemic traps of modern success. We dive deep into why society's standard checklist—the high-paying career, the money, the status symbols—is leaving millions completely empty inside, and how human satisfaction has been fundamentally distorted over generations.

Are we just walking replicas of someone else's expectations, or is it possible to break free from the matrix of external validation? We challenge the mainstream narrative of self-improvement by looking at the hidden mechanics of human behavior, the evolutionary traps of technology, and why looking inward is the only real escape from cyclical suffering. We trace these breakdowns from ancient philosophy to modern pop culture, exploring why the ultimate sport isn't chasing clout—it's mastering your own mind.

But warning: true personal growth requires a brutal reality check. We expose the exact psychological defense mechanism people use to shift blame onto the government, social media, or their surroundings to avoid the hardest task of all...

...and what happens to your mind and body when life forces a permanent, brutal restoration of balance that you can no longer run from?

📌 Key Takeaways From the Episode:

• The Communication Dilution: How the foundational rules of human happiness got chopped up and miscommunicated through a multi-generational game of "telephone."
• External Items vs. Internal Reality: The mathematical flaw of acquiring material variables to solve a spiritual or psychological deficit.
• The Myth of Choice: Why overworking your internal system guarantees a forced, involuntary crash—and how to design sustainable equilibrium.
• The "Dumbledore Amendment": Unpacking why true help in life isn't given to those who merely ask for it, but to those who actively prove they deserve it.

💡 Most Insightful Moment:

"They arrogantly feel that a lot of the suffering is not their fault or their doing... They're under the impression that life is about figuring out external things and not about internal things." — Toliy

Ready to stop peopling by everyone else's rules? Hit subscribe on this podcast on psychology to ensure you never miss an episode of your forever toolkit for the mind. Leave us a review and let us know: are you living an examined life, or are you just chasing the dressing on a bland salad?

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Dennis: On this week's episode 

[00:00:01] Toliy: When you feel internally that like you're being forced into some kind of change, change, whether it's by like the government, a friend, a boss, you always resist that. Oh, the fucking government. 

[00:00:15] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:00:16] Toliy: Oh, social media. Oh, cell phones. That misplaced. They arrogantly feel that a lot of the suffering is not their fault or their doing.

[00:00:25] Mike: To build like a good life and successful life is society's standards, I guess. You don't need to think, you just need to like Follow and work. Follow, show your ass. 

[00:00:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:00:36] Mike: You know?

[00:00:43] Eldar: All right, guys, we're back, and we actually are back in a new space. We didn't have a podcast last, last week because we were moving, uh, into a new upgraded space, new upgraded studio, and, uh, generally speaking, we're happy, right? 

[00:00:57] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:00:57] Eldar: Yeah? What do you guys, what do you guys like? Let's go around the room and kinda like what are some pros?

[00:01:04] I think, uh, this is the- Totally 

[00:01:06] Mike: specific question ... 

[00:01:07] Eldar: yeah, totally ... what are the pros? 

[00:01:08] Toliy: Yeah, I feel like, 

[00:01:08] Eldar: uh- You said it was 10X. 

[00:01:10] Toliy: Yeah, at, at, at least. 

[00:01:11] Eldar: At least. 

[00:01:12] Toliy: Yeah, at least. Wow. 

[00:01:13] Eldar: Yeah. And, and this doesn't mean only the, because it's the proximity to your house is only two minutes literally. 

[00:01:18] Toliy: No. 

[00:01:18] Eldar: No. No, 

[00:01:19] Toliy: ju- just like the, the air is crisp.

[00:01:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:01:23] Toliy: Like the, um, like the, um- 

[00:01:24] Eldar: Pa- Yo, why don't you paint the setting? You know what I mean? For the people. 

[00:01:27] Toliy: Paint the setting. I mean, it's like 

[00:01:30] Eldar: a, 

[00:01:30] Toliy: it's like a nice office space, brand new flooring. 

[00:01:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:01:35] Toliy: With no subfloor prep though on them that we've discovered,

[00:01:39] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:01:39] Toliy: Um, yeah, like new flooring, hardwood floor mixed with c- carpet in the offices, you know, windows everywhere, sunlight everywhere, crisp air.

[00:01:51] Ju- just like a good aura to it,

[00:01:52] Eldar: mm-hmm. 

[00:01:53] Toliy: Um, I... the comparison to the other office compared to this one is, like, I felt like I went from the basement to, like- 

[00:02:01] Eldar: You moved up ... 

[00:02:01] Toliy: like a, yeah, like a nice place. You 

[00:02:03] Eldar: know? Yeah, no, and that's a good point. The basement to the first floor.

[00:02:05] We're on the first floor, guys. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? But it wasn't really a basement- No, but like- ... 'cause we still had windows ... 

[00:02:10] Toliy: a- and like the office- 

[00:02:12] Eldar: I guess that was- ... split 

[00:02:12] Toliy: level ... I was in, like, I that to me feels like I was, like, in a, like a dungeon. Really? Like, that's how I feel in comparison to this.

[00:02:19] Yeah. 

[00:02:19] Eldar: Well, you were also isolated in your own room. So I didn't feel like that because we had windows and stuff. Yeah. It was bright too, but- Yeah ... yeah, I feel, I, I know what you mean ... I felt like I was, like, in like 

[00:02:26] Toliy: a, like a dungeon in comparison to, like, this, 

[00:02:29] Eldar: this setup. Now your o- your own office has the most amount of windows in this whole office, right?

[00:02:33] Mike: Mm. Yeah. Is that 

[00:02:35] Eldar: really? 

[00:02:35] Mike: Second most. 

[00:02:36] Eldar: Second most. I 

[00:02:36] Mike: think that one. 

[00:02:37] Eldar: Yeah. Uh, the other one has- Or tied ... 

[00:02:38] Mike: yeah. 

[00:02:39] Eldar: Maybe tied, yeah. 

[00:02:39] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:02:40] Eldar: I do have a big wall. But yeah, it's g- it's great. We have private kitchen. Yeah. Pretty sick. Yeah, it's much b- it's bigger, you know, and we o- we arranged, the whole week we were arranging the whole space, which is nice.

[00:02:52] I think we did a pretty good job, right, Mike? We're not done yet. 

[00:02:55] Mike: Yeah, we're not done yet, so that, like, for me, I can't even... Like, I haven't settled in yet. 

[00:02:58] Eldar: Yeah, me too. I was telling that to Toliy. I, 

[00:03:00] Mike: I- I'm, like, still buzzing ... made this- And, like, I'm all yesterday was, like, a, a very extremely busy day on- Mm

[00:03:05] like, on top of everything, so, you know, just catching up. I think we're finally, like, getting there soon, though, but 

[00:03:11] Eldar: tired. Yeah, me too. Even now I'm relaxing a little bit, I'm reflecting and stuff. Yeah, I'm definitely still in that mode where, like, there's a lot still to do, obviously, to set up. Yeah. But overall, this is great.

[00:03:20] Yeah. Um- 

[00:03:21] Mike: This is like, um, get most stuff ready so everybody can operate. 

[00:03:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:03:25] Mike: And then- Yes ... reflect, slow down, and- 

[00:03:28] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:03:28] Mike: set up everything else. And 

[00:03:29] Eldar: then e- enjoy a little bit, you know? 

[00:03:30] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:03:32] Eldar: But yeah, to segue from what we're talking about now, I guess maybe to some degree we're grateful for the space that we have, but the segue to, to this week's topic about, about a good life, and what, what does good life actually make up, I think one big part of it is to be able to be grateful for the things that you do have, and have the ability to acknowledge them, those things and get the energy and the goodness that you need from those things, right? And actually know that you're getting them. Because a lot of times, you know, people might have a good job or, quote unquote, "good job."

[00:04:06] People might have enough money, or so they think. All right? They might have a family, a loving family. What seems to be a loving family, right? But internally, there's always some kind of this small buzz, or not even a small buzz, but maybe some kind of frustration, where something else is not enough.

[00:04:24] You're constantly complaining, you constantly have the same, um- A loop of thoughts that can go around and around complaining about the same stuff. And it's almost sure you might have accomplished certain things in life or society that check those boxes, right? Generally speaking what it means to be successful.

[00:04:42] But internally, you're still not happy, so I wanted to talk about that. You know, why does that happen? You know, did, did we as society get it all wrong in that we created the standards that are actually not serving people that are silently su- silently suffering internally, right? Because Everyone's promoting that, right?

[00:05:05] Get a good job, have money, have kids, have a wife, but then when you get all those things, like my cousin used to say, "Oh, I, I thought by 30 I'm gonna be- 

[00:05:13] Toliy: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:05:14] Eldar: I'm gonna have a good job, I'm gonna have a career, or I'm gonna have this." Like, he, he really thinks that's the answer. 

[00:05:19] You know? And we actually are on the opposite saying, saying, "Look, you have all the time in the world to get that.

[00:05:23] Let's focus on yourself so you can actually have a good life." So did society get it all wrong, or did, do we, d- are we wrong? 

[00:05:31] Mike: Like, um, when we say, or when you say, like, "Did society get it wrong?" That means there was a conscious navigation to the point where it is, right? Well, I'm not- Or not necessarily

[00:05:43] I'm 

[00:05:44] Eldar: not sure, I'm not sure if it's, like, a conscious, collective conscious- 

[00:05:47] Mike: No, no, no ... but it's definitely 

[00:05:48] Eldar: like a cons- consensus 

[00:05:49] Mike: In the way that it's, like, being said is, like, did they get it wrong, meaning that they were going for something and they were, made it- Okay ... 

[00:05:56] Eldar: like... Yeah. 

[00:05:56] Mike: That's what I'm trying to, like, 

[00:05:58] Eldar: uh- That's what you mean.

[00:05:58] Okay. 

[00:05:58] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:05:59] Eldar: Uh, yeah, I'm not sure if there was an intenti- I, maybe there is, there was an intentional ploy to have the white picket fence, the American dream, and set yourself 

[00:06:06] Mike: up- Mm-hmm ... for all 

[00:06:06] Eldar: that stuff. 

[00:06:07] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:06:08] Eldar: But as we know, I think as we continue to digest these things, uh, week after week, year after year, for all these years, we've come to find out that it's a lot more than that.

[00:06:18] That human satisfaction, human contentment or having the ability to be grateful for things doesn't just come from just having a good career- Mm-hmm ... having a good job, having money, maybe having a hot wife, or any of that, right? The truth of the matter is there's plenty of people that have that, and they're still miserable.

[00:06:38] So to some degree, yeah, like, collectively, maybe we silently maybe agree, to, to these to these standards or these, to these rules. But, uh, the case might be far from it. 

[00:06:51] Mike: Do you think, like, um- living an examined life, let's just, uh, s- like, uh, broadly say that, but do you think that raising people to, you know, to think about like, uh, in a different way, is it much harder, um, if you were never introduced to it?

[00:07:13] Or is it easier to kinda like just give like, "Hey, I gotta... My s- my, like, s- this, uh, country is 300 million people. I gotta figure out how to keep people just generally like, you know, productive or like, alive and healthy and all this stuff," right? That's not like the- 

[00:07:28] Eldar: The priority ... 

[00:07:28] Mike: the priority, right?

[00:07:29] Is that inherently easier to do it that way? Or is the other way actually harder? Or is it harder because w- like for example, the study of philosophy, right? Studying philosophy- 

[00:07:43] ... 

[00:07:43] Mike: And then undoing all the things you've done. 

[00:07:45] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:45] Mike: Is it harder because of that? Or what if you were to actually teach people from the beginning how to be good or how to live a good life or how to, like, do the right thing, all that stuff.

[00:07:54] Is that actually harder? Or... Oh I mean, I think it's harder because you're already, like, started on the back foot. You already gotta, like, be more conscious about the choices you made and then try to undo those things if you're trying to make a change. But if you were taught from the beginning Or is it the same?

[00:08:13] It doesn't, it's not harder at all. 

[00:08:15] Toliy: Toliy? Like, I mean- What do you think? ... I guess to, to like s- start out by, I think, answering your question, I think that, like, to me there's been a giant miscommunication that was not intended. So I don't think it was a conscious- 

[00:08:27] Okay ... effort for this. But to me it's, uh, it's just like I, like I act- I actually think that, like, there's some kind of like Chinese, like, uh, proverb or story or like something about this that like when like someone says something to somebody and that message keeps getting passed down the message changes over time the more and more it gets passed down and to the more people that hear it.

[00:08:50] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:50] Toliy: Um, because it's not like, like it's like, um- I don't know, like if we bring an example of like what did Jesus say or something, right? 

[00:09:00] Okay. Well, like he could have said something, someone could have heard it, and if that keeps getting passed down over time, over time, over time- 

[00:09:07] Eldar: The telephone- 

[00:09:08] Toliy: Yeah

[00:09:08] phenomenon. The, the message is gonna change. 

[00:09:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:11] Toliy: Mm-hmm. And I to me, that's what happened- Hmm ... to, to, to mankind. 

[00:09:16] Eldar: So then you're almost blaming language or- 

[00:09:18] Toliy: Well, not bla- ... 

[00:09:18] Eldar: communication 

[00:09:19] Toliy: ability to- I'm not blaming language. Yeah, I'm blaming like communication and ability to pass down the same message. 

[00:09:27] Eldar: Oh, that's very interesting.

[00:09:28] Toliy: Because if it's not done, like when you tell someone something, like if you're te- like if you're having a conversation with someone or you're teaching about something, if they, if you just sound like, "Hey," okay, like you told me something and then you tell me, "Okay, ex- explain what I said to Mike."

[00:09:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:45] Toliy: And if I explain that to Mike and you know how I do it, I could have already gotten it like 50% wrong. Now I explain it the 50% wrong version to Mike. He takes it. 

[00:09:54] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:09:54] Toliy: He might get 50% of that wrong already. So already by the third person, 25% of your message is correctly passed down versus 100%, for example.

[00:10:04] Yeah. Yeah. And then if it keeps... Mike tells it to somebody else, it keeps g- keep, keeps going, where before you know it, you're not even passing down ev- even remotely close to the same message that was being like taught. You're actually- Yeah ... saying something completely different now. 

[00:10:19] Mike: Hmm. 

[00:10:19] Toliy: Um, and- 

[00:10:21] Mike: Mm-hmm

[00:10:22] Toliy: um, that to me is what happened here because I feel that I do feel that people got it completely wrong, and I feel it, they got it completely wrong because I feel like mankind in general operates from a mindset of they're trying to to like they're more concerned with the world around them than they are with themselves, and they're convinced that there's something wrong out there and not something wrong inwards.

[00:10:49] Mike: Hmm. 

[00:10:49] Toliy: And they're convinced that the answers are all external versus internal, and I think that the, um, the way that life plays out I think it helps you- slowly through suffering, realize that it's not. That, that to me is like the purpose of suffering is to make your circle back to where it, it should have been.

[00:11:13] Mm. And, and then to kind of start, start fresh on all of these things. Um- 

[00:11:18] Eldar: So then again, would you conclude then if you fast-forward this conversation, would you still then conclude that we're exactly where we're supposed to be? Well- And as a humanity or a society? 

[00:11:27] Mike: Yeah, I think the, like the big thing to note is that I don't think anybody got it wrong or at all.

[00:11:33] I think actually it's just a matter of perspective to me. 

[00:11:36] You can't do something right and then get it wrong. Mm-hmm. You can't go from doing things the right way to then... And I'm talking about right in a s- in like a, you know- 

[00:11:46] Eldar: Moral sense ... 

[00:11:47] Mike: moral sense, right? The right thing to do sense. You can't go from doing that, like that story of Adam and Eve where they were living in E- in paradise, and then they ate the apple.

[00:11:57] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:11:57] Eldar: The hell's wrong with them? 

[00:11:58] Mike: What's up with them? Yeah. Who's gonna eat the apple? 

[00:12:01] Toliy: Yeah. No, but I also don't think that it's possible I don't think that like if you do morally right things, for example, I don't think necessarily that you know how to do like ev- everything right. 

[00:12:09] Mike: I'm definitely not saying that.

[00:12:11] But I think- 

[00:12:11] Eldar: So what he's saying is that like if you know not to steal, you're most likely not gonna steal, right? 

[00:12:16] Toliy: Yeah, but what's the measure... if you know, if you actually- Like- ... know to not steal- If you- ... when you but when you start throwing in different variables in, into it, I mean, all that changes.

[00:12:26] It's like, for example, like we all know not to steal. That's also like we can easily not steal right now based on our understandings and our circumstances. 

[00:12:34] What if we got thrown into, I don't know, we got kidnapped somewhere and thrown into some like foreign like, like village. And now, and you have, and you get tossed there with your wife and two kids.

[00:12:44] You might need to kill, you might need to steal. Mm-hmm. You might need to cheat, or like tho- those things will change over time. So- 

[00:12:51] Eldar: Okay, but that's more of a, of, of a drastic change or of a- 

[00:12:55] Toliy: Well, no, that, that's a very drastic scenario. Scenario, yeah. But I'm saying is that like over time in people's li- lives, um, if they're living a particular life and they know that something is wrong- It, it's, it's only wrong for like at that moment, at that time, right?

[00:13:10] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:13:10] Toliy: But then as circumstances change potentially for like, in like a, a bad way for that person, the whole picture changes. 

[00:13:20] Mike: I, I think we actually came from bad. I mean, like, I'm not sure like numbers-wise, but uh, when was like a modern language established where everybody spoke it or had an ability to write it or like modern- modernized?

[00:13:34] It's not that many years ago where, I mean, I think that people actually had like, the ability to communicate properly. I think we came from caveman era, like not... It was not that been that long. And I think what's happening right now is in like a, seems to me as a normal evolutionary process where we're going up.

[00:13:53] I don't think we're going down. I-- That's why I think it's a matter of perspective, where people are learning, like, um, people are like, uh, having a more of an opportunity to learn now, more and more than before. Like the connectedness to people, the information, the technology. Sure, there's obviously good and bad in everything, and utilization is individual of how you wanna use that.

[00:14:19] But I generally think like the evolutionary process is the evolutionary process. And I, and I think we're, you know, like Elder said, we're exactly where we're supposed to be. This is normal. I don't think we came from like knowing something and then we stopped doing things because shit got worse. I think we were in a shithole.

[00:14:36] Let's just say we were cavemen. We had to hunt, we had to find shelter, and not that long ago, and then we started evolving. We started to be more civilized. We stopped killing each other just like for territory, and that way we used to do it. You know, obviously we still, you know, fight over shit, but, um, but people, the general people are evolving.

[00:14:55] And also the human population has grown in a, like in a tremendous number, too, and I think that's also a big factor, where that the evolution will take longer 'cause you have to like educate more people with potentially limited resources. Yeah. Time moves at a consistent steadiness, but other things don't.

[00:15:17] Eldar: Yeah, and it doesn't mean like... Well, I guess maybe w- when we blanket society or whatever this doesn't mean that society, as a whole world- 

[00:15:25] Mike: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:15:25] Eldar: because there's so many different societies, there's so many different cultural- 

[00:15:28] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:15:29] Eldar: uh, you know, backgrounds as well. Mm-hmm. So just because we here in America may be evolving one way doesn't mean it's the same thing in Russia.

[00:15:36] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:15:36] Eldar: Doesn't mean the same thing in Africa. 

[00:15:37] Mike: Countries are still could be in a different place of their evolutionary thing- 

[00:15:41] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:15:41] Mike: process, yeah. Even though we're living in the same time because of, yeah, the leadership maybe have some kind of, thinking- ... not progressive or not, I don't know.

[00:15:52] So 

[00:15:54] Eldar: But some people would probably argue with you, especially those probably who are political. Mm-hmm. They probably say like, "Oh, we had a lot, it was a lot better before because, you know, I don't know, economic- 

[00:16:04] ... 

[00:16:04] Eldar: Things that are going on right now, you know?" Mm-hmm. And- 

[00:16:06] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:16:06] Eldar: the politics and the politicians, the crookedness o- Sure

[00:16:09] overall, you know? That- Sure ... maybe the intended Founding Fathers did not intend it to be this way. 

[00:16:15] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:16] Eldar: You know what I mean? 

[00:16:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:16:17] Eldar: So I guess it's, I mean, as a whole maybe it, it does look like- No, 

[00:16:22] Toliy: but I, I was more like, like talking about the phenomenon o- of like, let's just bring like America into like the picture because we, we live here and like...

[00:16:34] Mike: And it is July 4th weekend. 

[00:16:36] Toliy: Yeah. It's our 

[00:16:36] Mike: independent day. 

[00:16:38] Toliy: But, People value particular things and people do things in very particular ways. And I think that the way that the world is and the, what's valued in society, like how things are, how things run, I do think it's, it says a lot. Now whether it's good or bad, I guess, yeah, like, yeah, but we can also just come from the mindset that like it doesn't have to be good or bad, it just kind of is, right?

[00:17:01] Of what, what's going on. But to me, how this all birthed is through miscommunication and through improper thinking about like, hey, like people have this idea as to what, again, a good life is or what is good and what is wrong and like how you ought to do the things, and they operate from that mindset.

[00:17:22] And they don't really need a lot of data to prove to themselves that's the correct way of, ways of doing things because of these pictures and these ideas that people have in their heads. And lots of times the people that suffer with these kinds of things the most, it's a, uh, unreachable I think for the most part.

[00:17:42] It's like an unreachable... un- unreachable, um, task. 

[00:17:45] So because it's such a difficult thing, you just kind of chip away at it and you just try to get there, but you probably never, ever will. And when you do... and when you do you're probably not gonna feel how you're thinking you're gonna feel, 

[00:17:59] Mike: yeah. 

[00:17:59] Toliy: But because it's such a, uh, almost near impossible feat for most people, I would say, for example- Yeah ... like the idea of like getting rich, for example. 

[00:18:08] Eldar: A good life. 

[00:18:09] Toliy: Yeah. Like the, the i- the, the- Success ... these ideas and these like scenarios that people have, the people that are really like s- like sticking with them they're never gonna get there They're, they're probably not.

[00:18:21] But because it's not something that takes, like, "Hey," like, "You're gonna figure out in 12 months whether you're gonna get this or not," no. Pe- people go at this for, like, decades, so it turns into a, a purpose. But then as you're doing stuff and as you're not getting what you think you will out, out of it, yeah, I think suffering happens.

[00:18:40] And when suffering happens, it ne- suffering always, to me, suffering always needs to be explained. It, it can't not be explained. To, to each ind- like each individual person, they have to understand or think, or like they have to make something out of the suffering. They can't not understand why it's happening or like what it is.

[00:19:00] Whether they're wrong or right about it is a different story, but you need an explanation to everything. Otherwise, like you can't live. 

[00:19:07] Eldar: Really? 

[00:19:07] Toliy: 100%, yeah.

[00:19:09] Eldar: You think so? 

[00:19:10] Toliy: Yeah, I think so, for sure. Yeah. 

[00:19:12] Eldar: Uh, well try, let's try to zoom in on that because I'm not sure if a lot of people are looking to, for the explanations of their suffering.

[00:19:17] Toliy: I'm not, I'm not saying they have the explanation correct, but they have a reason. "Oh, the fucking government." 

[00:19:23] Eldar: Okay. "

[00:19:24] Toliy: Oh, social media." Okay. "Oh, cell phones." They misplace their suffering. "Oh, Facebook." 

[00:19:29] Eldar: Yeah. "

[00:19:30] Toliy: Oh, this. Oh, these commercials, these influencers controlling my kids." The, these are all reasons as to why they disagree or don't like something.

[00:19:40] Now again, whether that is correct or not is definitely a different, uh, conversation. 

[00:19:45] Eldar: So you're almost saying that then the people that are suffering will also find a way to not suffer by misplacing- 

[00:19:52] Toliy: They need an explanation to things, but to me the... One, one of the biggest issues I see in society is the external reasons of these things, and first, because it's just so difficult and it's not even like a thought in their mind to go internal on all of these things, society's natural reaction is to look externally, which is why they constantly look externally for happiness, they look externally for solutions, they look externally for help, uh, they look externally for reasons as to why things are happening.

[00:20:26] Mm. And they never, uh, have the even the, the thought or the idea to look internally because they arrogantly feel that a lot of the suffering is not their fault or their doing 

[00:20:40] Mike: Mike, what do you think about that? I mean, it's, uh, I, I think, yeah, people, like when they suffer, they, uh, I do think that they want to make sense of it.

[00:20:48] Like, like I agree. They not necessarily they are correct about what, you know, the causation of their suffering. Like they're not connecting the dots potentially. But I do think people like- Try to understand it. I can't say that I think it's every time. I would have to think about it. Like, every time you suffer do you, like, try to sit and think, or try to sit and figure it out, or you just kinda like move on, just- 

[00:21:14] Eldar: I think a lot of people 

[00:21:15] Mike: just move on.

[00:21:15] Yeah. 

[00:21:15] Toliy: No, 

[00:21:15] Mike: I 

[00:21:15] Toliy: think that there is... But e- b- I think it's both ... for, for most people it's very fast, but I do think that there's still, there... you can't move we, we spoke to us before, you can't live in an I don't know land. That, that we established, that pe- people have a very hard time. They can't- Admitting

[00:21:31] be in limbo. Yeah. So because they can't be in limbo, they need an explanation to ev- everything, and most people have just gotten very good at explaining, um, their suffering and explaining, like, why things are not going the way that they want them to go, and everybody has a re- reason for it. 

[00:21:49] Mike: What about suffering that's, like, not...

[00:21:51] Is there such a thing as suffering that's not conscious? Like they don't, like, uh, understand their suffering, they're just kind of like, "Oh, this is regular life." 

[00:21:57] Eldar: Well, no, yeah, I think that, No, that, that normal- No, I... No, there's no such thing. 

[00:22:00] Toliy: Wh- what? 

[00:22:01] Eldar: Wait. Well, what I agree with Toliy. I don't think there's such a thing.

[00:22:03] I think that they find a way- 

[00:22:04] ... 

[00:22:04] Eldar: To explain that and they move on. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's 

[00:22:07] Toliy: just a very fast explanation- Mm-hmm ... for most people. Yeah. "Oh this neighborhood sucks because of these people," for example. Mm-hmm. But they, they, and they move on. So that's why- 

[00:22:14] Mike: Yeah, but that's like big stuff.

[00:22:16] I'm talking about, like, real small personal things. Like, obviously everybody has a problem with government on one side or the other, or money, or prices for bagels. Like, I get it. I'm talking about personal stuff, like- 

[00:22:25] Toliy: Yeah. The, the same- ... personal relationships ... goes with personal 

[00:22:27] Mike: stuff. 

[00:22:28] Toliy: Same, same- Mm ... goes with personal stuff.

[00:22:29] Mike: Okay. 

[00:22:30] Toliy: Right? Like they s- somebody... the... There has to be a responsi- like a responsible party for

[00:22:38] everything that is not... it's, it's very- Not going their way. Yeah. It's very rare where a person is gonna shift responsibility to themselves. If that was the case, there would be way more empowered people, and I think society would be completely different. But it's, it... and like, we always talk about change, and I heard this on, like, just some, some other thing I was listening to, and I felt like it was correct that, like, pe- people don't dislike change.

[00:23:06] They dislike the feeling of being changed. 

[00:23:09] So they don't like the feeling of, like, feeling that something or someone is, is, like, forcibly changing them or some- Mm-hmm. Like- 

[00:23:16] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:23:17] Toliy: whatever it is, some idea. 

[00:23:18] So no one doesn't like not like change. Like, everyone actually loves change. When it's the conscious change of you wanting to do something different and you being on board and you agreeing- For yourself

[00:23:28] with it, everyone loves that universally, right? It's a great feeling. But when you feel internally that, like, you're being forced into some kind of change, change whether it's by like, again, the government, a friend, a family member, a boss, whoever it is just a, like who, whoever, you always resist that.

[00:23:49] So, um, yeah, I do think that everyone has an explanation as to why th- why their suffering is happening, and I think it's a very fast, like, they, they've gotten to the point where it's a very fast um- 

[00:24:02] Eldar: And becau- ... thing ... and they do it because obviously it's hard to look within and take that accountability.

[00:24:07] Toliy: It, I, I do think it's hard, but I, I also think that most people are, are un- unaware that that's actually, like... Like, they actually don't know what's actually happening. 

[00:24:15] They're under the impression that life is about figuring out external things and not about internal things. Well, what are- And therefore they're always seeking the external empowerment that doesn't exist.

[00:24:27] Eldar: Well, that's the thing. That's wh- that's why I started this conversation, right? Uh, about the fact that a lot of people do achieve this external validation or external, you know, uh, achievements, right? They got a good job, they make good money, they have a family, they have kids, right? But they still continue to complain, and most of the complaints are external, like you said, right?

[00:24:49] The government's not doing the right thing, the economy's bad or whatever. 

[00:24:53] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:24:53] Eldar: Right? So instead of addressing their anger, for example, they put it onto the world. 

[00:24:59] Toliy: And what happens when, when you do that enough times, nor- normalization of issues and suffering happens, and then those complaints and those issues, they actually never even get to the point of being worked on because they just become like, th- that person has reached an endpoint.

[00:25:17] What they feel is 

[00:25:18] Eldar: the- 

[00:25:19] Toliy: They're powerless ... is the endpoint to it. And they just they kind of admit to themselves like, "Hey, this is just how things are." 

[00:25:25] Eldar: And that's it. 

[00:25:26] Toliy: Yeah. "This is just how things are. I don't know why Jewish people have all the money. We're the oppressed people," for example.

[00:25:33] People will just say that like, "Hey, like, those people just control shit." 

[00:25:36] Eldar: And that's it. 

[00:25:37] Toliy: That's it. So for example, when they, when you make those kind of statements or you feel those kinds of ways, you say they're like, "Hey there's actually no, no more chance of change anymore. There's no chance here.

[00:25:47] We, we have reached the end." 

[00:25:48] And then they just bury- Numb out ... that topic forever. 

[00:25:51] Eldar: Mm-hmm. They numb out. 

[00:25:52] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:25:53] Eldar: So what do you suggest for those pe- for, I mean, for the people? 

[00:25:57] Toliy: Yeah, like are you gonna go outside and just try to fly home right now? 

[00:26:01] Eldar: Uh, no. 

[00:26:02] Toliy: You don't make that attempt, right? 

[00:26:03] Eldar: No. 

[00:26:03] Toliy: You don't feel like that, that that's possible right now, and you're not even gonna go and just sit in the heat right now and try.

[00:26:09] You do what you know. You know you can get into your car, you can have it be, uh, on, and you know how to drive, and you can get home. 

[00:26:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:16] Toliy: You also know that, like, hey, the car's not working. You have other options. You call people, you have a service, you have a bunch of things. But you don't just go to try to start jumping as high as you can- Mm-hmm

[00:26:25] and flapping your arms, right? 

[00:26:27] Eldar: Paws. 

[00:26:27] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Your paws and seeing if you can fly. 

[00:26:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:32] Toliy: You don't feel that way because you obviously don't feel that like there's a chance there. This is how those people feel 

[00:26:37] Eldar: Well, explain to me then, okay, sure, I can't like, you know, I don't have wings, and I can't flap them, and I can't fly away.

[00:26:44] But how come every morning I feel like I'm Penny's pup? Because she cleans me. 

[00:26:50] Toliy: Because you actually are. 

[00:26:53] Eldar: Why are you smiling? Like, did I got you? 

[00:26:55] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:26:56] Eldar: You're like, "Where the fuck is this motherfucker going?" You're about to go 

[00:26:58] Toliy: somewhere deep, 

[00:27:00] Eldar: you know? It's pretty deep. I do feel like that. She, she w- you know, I mean, she licks my face nonstop- Yeah, she takes 

[00:27:05] Toliy: care of you

[00:27:05] Eldar: in the morning, so I feel like a pup. 

[00:27:07] Toliy: Yeah, that's- You know? Yeah, but that's because you are. 

[00:27:08] Eldar: Okay. For that moment. 

[00:27:09] Toliy: Yeah, for that moment. 

[00:27:10] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:27:11] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:27:12] Eldar: Thank you, Penny. 

[00:27:14] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:27:14] Eldar: Shout out, shout out to Penny. 

[00:27:15] Toliy: Yeah, so, um, yeah, I just feel like many people have gotten to that point where this is it And, um- Well, that's what we're gonna come back to.

[00:27:24] Like, what does it, what does 

[00:27:25] Eldar: it actually mean to have a actual good life? Or how do we actually see things for what they are? Especially for, uh, some of our friends, right? Who seem externally have achieved everything, right? Well, that, that- That they wanted, but- ... 

[00:27:38] Toliy: that's the thing, is that the ex- They're miserable

[00:27:39] yeah. The, that's the thing, at least again, to me, it's like a full circle thing of like, if you feel that life is about external, like, validations and external accomplishments no matter how externally successful, so-called, you get, you will still have to return back to the internal world. 

[00:27:59] Eldar: Always.

[00:27:59] Toliy: Whether you like it or not. You, you will never be able to trick yourself long enough to feel that way. And just most- Yeah ... people like the American, for example, general way, the, like the proposition from when you're, like, a kid is what? To go to school, go to co- like, right, then go to college, then have a career, then go into debt, do your job, pay off your debt over time, acquire a house eventually- Mm

[00:28:27] get into debt again, buy cars- Oh, shut up. Shut up ... get into debt, and then pay off all of these things over time, put in your time, stay very- 

[00:28:35] Eldar: Busy ... 

[00:28:36] Toliy: busy. Then you have a, uh, alleged portion, if your health is not so bad, of just, like, retirement and relaxation is what it's supposed to be. And then the government kind of helps you, and your investments help you, and, like, your, um, assistances that you've been kind of putting into Social Security or all these different things, retirement funds.

[00:28:56] They kind of, keep you afloat financially so that you don't have those stresses anymore because you're older, and you're not supposed to have that kind of, like, energy or, like, ability, and you're supposed to just kind of more relax and enjoy yourself. 

[00:29:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:29:07] Toliy: That is a general trajection of, like, I don't know, the American life.

[00:29:12] Or like it has been for- Who, who's 

[00:29:13] Eldar: established that? The government? 

[00:29:15] Toliy: Uh, again, it's like a... it may have been a message that was, I would like to bet, a correct m- message at some point. But the message got so chopped up over time and minced that, again, people are just picking up the end of it. Yeah.

[00:29:30] They're not going back to the original source of it and, like, people are not clarifying themselves- 

[00:29:36] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:29:37] Toliy: as to what they meant by that. Or that person that was achieving, getting um, ma- making a lot of money or something. Maybe they wanted to make a lot of money because they wanted to also, like, I don't know, impact some kind of change, right?

[00:29:49] Or, like, do particular good things. But then again, it got so chopped up over time that the message completely changed 

[00:29:59] Eldar: Mike, you buy it or no? No. Saying that it went from good to bad, man. 

[00:30:02] Mike: No, I don't think so. 

[00:30:04] Eldar: You don't think so? 

[00:30:05] Mike: I think everything is in, in, uh, the... Like, how can it be wrong? How can we- Well, 

[00:30:11] Toliy: I'm not arguing that

[00:30:12] how can- Uh, like I'm not arguing whether it's, like, right or wrong right now- Mm-hmm ... or, or, like- 

[00:30:16] Mike: No, no, like how can it be existing right now? How could whatever's playing out right now not be exactly what's supposed to be played out? 

[00:30:22] Toliy: No, no, I'm not saying that it's not supposed to be that way. Mm-hmm. Okay.

[00:30:25] I'm, uh, I'm just saying that, like, what happened? 

[00:30:28] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:30:28] Toliy: Like my thing is to explain what happened, whether, like... Uh, yeah, I just think universally, like, everything is where it's supposed to be. Mm-hmm. Like, sure. But my point is that, like, the communication of things that to me is like a natural phenomenon that happens at, like if you say something and you tell a thousand people to keep passing down your message- 

[00:30:47] If you were to hear what person 800 is saying to 801- 

[00:30:50] Mike: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:30:51] Toliy: you would be like, "I didn't say that." 

[00:30:52] Mike: Yeah. Yes. 

[00:30:53] Toliy: And then you'd almost be puzzled as to wait. So who- All I said was, you know- So where was 

[00:30:57] Eldar: the message was, 

[00:30:58] Mike: uh... What's the 

[00:30:59] Eldar: message 

[00:31:00] Toliy: It depends on, like, the topic and what it is Well, 

[00:31:03] Eldar: for example, one, one message, let me, you know...

[00:31:05] in the 1950s or the '60s, you guys probably were aware, right? Like- Mm-hmm ... it was, um, women stay home, cook, clean, raise the kids- Mm-hmm ... and, and men go to work. 

[00:31:15] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:31:15] Eldar: That's one of the messages. Mm-hmm. That's what that was, right? Yeah. Where it's like, "Hey, that's the dynamic of a family." 

[00:31:20] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:31:21] Eldar: You know? And you have these, like, family dinners and all this other shit, you know, whatever- but now it's completely changed, that message- Yeah ... right, where women became more independent, where like, no, they're gonna be the breadwinners as well, they're gonna have more equality and stuff like that, or they s- they think that there was- Yeah ... no equality back then. Yes. You 

[00:31:35] Toliy: know? And it could have been that that m- message, for example- it could have been that in the beginning, the, the essence of that message was that, like, hey you want someone to, like, to teach your kid, for example- Properly, yeah ... good things- Yeah ... proper things- Yeah ... good lessons, like raise them correctly. 

[00:31:50] Eldar: The intention could have been right- The, the- ... right?

[00:31:52] the intention could have been right. But now, right, the outlook on that is, like, no, no, no, that's bad. 

[00:31:57] Toliy: Oh, I know 

[00:31:57] Eldar: that, 

[00:31:57] Toliy: yeah. 

[00:31:58] Eldar: So- For example, yeah ... so, so for example, so what Toliy is saying, right, like I'm, I'm not going back thousands of years or whatever- Yeah ... I'm going back 50 years, let's just say, where that was a specific message, where over time- 

[00:32:08] Toliy: Mm-hmm

[00:32:08] Eldar: got diluted- 

[00:32:10] Toliy: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:32:10] Eldar: by who- 

[00:32:11] Toliy: And some people might- ... by why- ... might argue right now saying, "Hey, they were trying to keep us down," for example. Yeah. The, like, they, they would just use the word they. Mm-hmm. "They were trying to oppress us." Mm-hmm. Or, "They were trying to keep us down," or, "They think we weren't good enough."

[00:32:24] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:24] Toliy: Where, like, that wa- that was not the intention. 

[00:32:27] Eldar: Mm-hmm. It could have been- Potentially ... like, potentially, right? We don't, I, I don't know either. Like, I- Yeah ... I don't know- Yeah ... what was actually being... Potentially it was good- Yes ... potentially it was bad. 

[00:32:34] Toliy: Yes. But- But someone could have shift like, over time pe- people could have shifted what the actual message was, and before you know it, you have a group of people saying that, like, "Hey, yeah, like, this is just an idea that men had to oppress women."

[00:32:48] And now a group of people operate that this was the message from the very beginning, when it may have not been, for example. Mm-hmm. At all. Yeah. Yeah. It, and it's like, it's not viewed upon, like, hey, wow, that's actually, like, like being a a, uh, mother is actually, like, the most important thing, for example.

[00:33:06] Where the, like, the- Well, that's the way we define it ... yeah, like the women who are like, I don't know, super career-driven or stuff like that, they could have a completely different outlook of it as that, like, oh, they were trying to dumb us down, hold us back. Mm-hmm. They didn't want us to have say, they didn't want us to have power.

[00:33:21] Where does that come from? Is that what that first per- the first idea of that was? That's what I'm saying. 

[00:33:29] Eldar: I, no, I get it. That's why I brought up that example. 

[00:33:31] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:33:32] Eldar: I get it. You know? So- 

[00:33:35] Toliy: Or, or, like e- even from the Constitution, right? Like when this was all being penned- 

[00:33:40] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:33:41] Toliy: were they trying to figure out, like, bad things for people to live or, like, like, people to live in good ways or, like, they wanted- 

[00:33:48] Eldar: They weren't thinking about school shootings and the guns 

[00:33:50] Toliy: No.

[00:33:50] Right? They weren't trying to create that, I'm saying, right? No. They weren't trying to create school shooters from the Constitution. 

[00:33:55] Eldar: No, no. I don't think so. 

[00:33:56] Toliy: They weren't trying to create racism, for example, right? I don't think so. Like I'm, like, my guess at least is that they wanted a prosperous, free place to, like, live.

[00:34:06] And then also you almost know that, like, like, I, I you almost know that, like, that's what the intention was because, like, what was, like, the back in the day foreigners' idea of, like, America? Freedom, right? 

[00:34:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:19] Toliy: This is everyone's association, let's say back in the day, like, when our parents were thinking about coming here and all that, everybody wanted to come to America for what?

[00:34:27] Opportunity. For freedom. Pra- practice their 

[00:34:30] Eldar: religion, for, 

[00:34:31] Toliy: yeah. Yes. Freedom. Yeah. Yeah. You wanna be Muslim- Freedom of speech ... you can be Muslim. You wanna be Jewish, you could be Jewish. Right. Christian can be Christian. 

[00:34:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:38] Toliy: Everybody had this idea that, like, this is the hotspot, this is the place to be.

[00:34:41] Eldar: Equality. 

[00:34:42] Toliy: And where did this all happen from, again? The Founding Fathers, the Constitution, right? 

[00:34:46] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:34:47] Toliy: The way that America was supposed to be built. And now the,

[00:34:52] Eldar: Interpreters ... 

[00:34:52] Toliy: yeah, now y- yeah, over time, again- That 

[00:34:54] Eldar: word ... 

[00:34:55] Toliy: we talk about,

[00:34:56] Eldar: Interpretation ... 

[00:34:57] Toliy: interpretation. The interpreters interpret in different ways.

[00:35:01] And in today's age- If you think something, for example, and you have a desire to spread it, the ability to spread these messages are faster and, like, bigger than ever. 

[00:35:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:14] Toliy: You can pump money into advertisements. 

[00:35:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:17] Toliy: And literally everyone's phone- 

[00:35:19] Eldar: You can reach mil- you can reach millions of 

[00:35:20] Toliy: people right now

[00:35:20] really millions like this. 

[00:35:22] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:22] Toliy: You can shout crazy loud from all these viral clips, and you get all these clippers and all these different things. 

[00:35:29] Eldar: Push your content. You 

[00:35:29] Toliy: know? 

[00:35:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:35:30] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:35:32] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:35:37] So is that, is it, a- and this was all because people didn't learn how to be, hold themselves accountable and didn't interpret the world properly and the- Well- ... the ca- the causality of things, and now that they're attributing these things onto the world- Well- ... they're projecting their anger? 

[00:35:51] Toliy: They're, um...

[00:35:54] they for sure do not understand how to properly interpret things. That's for sure, I think. 

[00:35:58] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:58] Toliy: But it's again, it's the idea as to what is your understanding of how to, how to make your life better? And when you speak to certain people, for example, like your cousin, right? What does he say?

[00:36:13] He says a lot, like a lot of his ideas in his head, if he were honest, if he could just spit out the honesty, I would say the majority of things, let's say prior to w- the first time that he came back, if he just wrote down, "What do you want?" He's gonna say all external things, right? Good job, money, nice car- Mm.

[00:36:31] Yeah ... house, this, that, right? Everyone has this idea of all these external factors that they need in order to what? The, the- Feel, feel good about 

[00:36:41] Eldar: themselves ... 

[00:36:41] Toliy: the, yeah, the, uh, the sentence itself, the idea is so crazy flawed. You need a bunch of these external things to then feel good internally? You don't need internal things to feel good internally?

[00:36:55] Eldar: I mean, that's a very good question. 

[00:36:56] Toliy: For example, does it make sense if you go into, I don't know, a business, like, I don't know, a business meeting, and before anyone talks or says anything, well you're... Like, if you have a $200,000 watch on, does it make sense for that to have impact in that external setting in the external world?

[00:37:14] It does. 

[00:37:14] Sure, it does. You can't just be like, "Hey," yeah, that, like we were gonna respect automatically that person in the room because, like, he's actually a s- he actually has his, like, self-respect for himself. 

[00:37:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:24] Toliy: That only come, comes out later. But it makes sense that external variables in external places w- match up together, right?

[00:37:33] Mm-hmm. And they work. Titles. Oh, VP of this, chairman of this. 

[00:37:37] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:38] Toliy: Chief executive of this. Sure, that makes sense in external places, in external world. But the, uh, the, uh, the thesis that, that in general people have is the acquisition of external items and external variables to feel good internally.

[00:37:55] How to make it make sense for me. 

[00:37:57] Eldar: All right. I can. I'm gonna try to at least a- ask another question. What if you just- And live your life day to day, all the time, as much as possible, involved in the external world. That isn't that what matters most? For example, right, the, the influencers, the TikTokers, the social media people, or those execs, right?

[00:38:21] Who's constantly buried with work. It does, 

[00:38:25] Toliy: yeah. For those moments, yeah. But at the end of the day- Or 

[00:38:29] Eldar: you 

[00:38:29] Toliy: can completely- ... still everyone has internal moments. I, I'm not sure, like, if it's possible to fully avoid that. M- sure, you can be super busy and super work work yourself, but what- Right, 

[00:38:43] Eldar: interpersonal relationships still happen

[00:38:45] Toliy: Yeah, that- Yeah ... and what's gonna happen over time? What is the natural sequence of life? What happens if you overwork? Yeah. You're gonna need eventually rest. And what kind of rest is that? Is that you developing some kind of bad cancer where you're gonna be forced into rest? 

[00:39:00] Eldar: Permanent 

[00:39:01] Toliy: rest. Is that you, I don't know, something happened to you, I don't know, where, I don't know, you need to get your leg chopped off, that kind of rest?

[00:39:07] Mental disability happens, and you need that kind of rest. Eventually, all this overworking, it, it leads to a, the, uh, the complete opposite eventually. 

[00:39:21] Because you, you overwork so much, you're gonna need to over-rest so much as well. 

[00:39:26] Because you're gonna be out of balance. 

[00:39:28] Eldar: Whoa. We had a, we had an episode on balance.

[00:39:31] Toliy: Yeah. And that's also, that's, that's not, like, a, um, a matter of choice. 

[00:39:35] Eldar: That's not a matter of choice? 

[00:39:36] Toliy: No. Hmm. If you, you're gonna event- like, if you stay up enough, you're gonna eventually crash, right? 

[00:39:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:42] Toliy: Can, can you- You need sleep ... stay up forever? 

[00:39:44] Eldar: You can't. I think, uh, recently I saw somewhere, it says, like, the most amount you can stay up is, like, eight days or something like that, or nine days.

[00:39:50] Toliy: Yeah. If you told me that you could just never sleep- Then you hallucinate or something ... and it's, and, and it's just like a, uh, like, it's like a, uh, a choice, for example, to, like, relax. So 

[00:39:58] Eldar: you're saying because there's an i- internal system- Yes ... that works- 

[00:40:03] Toliy: There's a system that's designed a particular way, and you can choose to- 

[00:40:07] Eldar: Try to hack it as much as you want, but- 

[00:40:09] Toliy: Well, not, not even hack it.

[00:40:10] You could choose to- Disrespect it ... lean in one extreme way, but there is always a permanent balance of life that will- 

[00:40:16] Eldar: Take its toll ... 

[00:40:17] Toliy: take its toll. 

[00:40:18] Eldar: Whether you like it or not. 

[00:40:19] Toliy: 100%.

[00:40:24] Eldar: So again, the conclusion again is the same one. Everything is exactly where it's supposed to be. 

[00:40:29] Toliy: Yeah. No that I'm not disagreeing with. I'm just saying that, like, 

[00:40:33] Eldar: I think- We miscommunicated. 

[00:40:34] Toliy: Yeah, I think we miscommunicated, because I, I don't think that the p- that the um, the thinkers of, of like, just like over our lifetime in- intended for things to play out the way that they're playing out with war and with all the, all this like, within your own country tension, i, I don't think that this is how it happened, all this anger. 

[00:40:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:40:59] Toliy: I don't think that this was intended. 

[00:41:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:41:02] Toliy: I don't think that the goals of the creators of our society was to create anger and create this. 

[00:41:09] Eldar: Yeah. You think that they 

[00:41:10] Toliy: were- Or, or to create individuals with greed or to create in- like I don't think that this is what those mothers were birthing, right?

[00:41:18] Eldar: Yeah. We're, we're not like- You don't think that they were thinking that the president of the United States would be making $2 billion trading crypto? 

[00:41:24] Toliy: Yeah. I, yeah, I don't think that like, again, the mothers of all these people were like, "Hey," like, "I really wanna produce like a greedy pigs son of a bitch."

[00:41:32] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:41:33] Toliy: No. 

[00:41:34] Mike: Nobody thinks that. 

[00:41:35] Toliy: No 

[00:41:35] Mike: one. But it doesn't matter what you think. It only matters what you do. 

[00:41:41] Eldar: Oh, 

[00:41:41] Mike: shit. You know what 

[00:41:42] Toliy: I mean? Well, yeah, but, but I think it does matter what you think, so I think a lot of what you think- That's where the doing comes from. Yeah. 

[00:41:47] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:41:47] Toliy: Yeah. The doing will come from your understanding and, and your thoughts.

[00:41:51] And just again- Well, 

[00:41:52] Mike: your thoughts could be- ... people have their own ... you, you might think you want a good son, but you actually, what you believe in and how you carry yourself is not- 

[00:41:59] Toliy: You could be wrong ... you 

[00:41:59] Mike: may think that you can dunk the ball, but if you don't have two feet, it doesn't matter what you think.

[00:42:05] You still can't do it. And I think yeah, everybody, you know, maybe thinks about doing things the right way, but just because you think about it and even though it doesn't align up with your personality or, or your belief system or your, uh, abilities doesn't mean Doesn't mean anything 

[00:42:23] Eldar: So are we just humans that are just walking around like replicas of someone else's thoughts, understandings, as- aspirations, and we're just kinda copycatting all of it?

[00:42:37] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:42:37] Mike: Yeah, yeah. If 

[00:42:38] Eldar: you don't 

[00:42:38] Mike: think for yourself, then 

[00:42:39] Eldar: what are you 

[00:42:40] Toliy: doing then? Someone's gonna think for you. 

[00:42:41] Eldar: Yeah. But that's definitely 

[00:42:44] Toliy: not a good life. And those things are way more accessible than you thinking for yourself, and you even thinking that you have the ab- Like, again, the first thing is like, like my whole life when I just think about everything, like everything from the beginning to like now, it's just like a constant realization of what's possible, for example.

[00:43:02] And to me it's like a constant... I'm constantly- Reminder ... unlocking new possibilities. I s- "Oh, I didn't think that this was possible. I didn't think that you could do this that way. I didn't think that like you're capable of this," or like, "That's doable." Like, it's, it's just like a constant reexamination of all that, and I continue to prove that to myself over and over again, and I continue to expand my understanding of what's, what's possible, what's okay, what's not okay.

[00:43:28] How are things actually supposed to be done? Is it really supposed to be done this way? Yeah. Is this what it is? Or is this just like only what I understand? And I know that like the, um, the whole realization of your life is to how can you as fast as possible realize that you are currently, you're, you're not like bad or good or like whatever it is.

[00:43:50] You're just limited to your own to your own understandings right now though only. And having that realization that like, okay, you're just li- limited to what you know- 

[00:44:02] Eldar: Yeah, but that's a, that could be a life sentence, man. 

[00:44:04] Toliy: What? 

[00:44:06] Eldar: Like a lot of people I think are limited to what you know and currently.

[00:44:09] Like you're, everything you just described now is b- is the result of being empowered throughout many years of thinking. 

[00:44:15] Toliy: Sure, but- But the, but the- ... but there, there's never like a wrong time to- Start ... to, to start or to realize that, but it's just a matter of like can you actually get to that point of realizing that you're just limited, but you're just limited only right now.

[00:44:30] Yes. Not forever. 

[00:44:31] Mike: But to believe that, understand- Yeah ... that concept is fucking advanced, bro. This is not a l- like a 101 course. This is like a- 

[00:44:39] Eldar: He's saying, what he's saying is true, but yeah, but all of Mike is right. 

[00:44:44] Mike: Yeah. This is like the- You can't, you can't just like- This is the most, like the blanket statement is like this is survival of the fittest.

[00:44:49] Whoever is gonna wanna live a good life is gonna survive the suffering and, and- Well- ... break through and, and have like the, you know, take the lessons that you talked about from the suffering, extract it, analyze it, and then they're gonna live a good life, and they're gonna f- you know. 

[00:45:04] Eldar: I don't, Yeah, but you know, I'm not sure if survival of the fittest, the quote itself- Yeah.

[00:45:08] Mike: That's more of a primitive way to say it. Yeah ... 

[00:45:10] Eldar: uh, it, it applies to living a good life. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think that just surviving in general, like yeah, you can survive primitively and beat someone o- beat somebody up or whatever, you know, and take their shit or whatever. 

[00:45:21] Toliy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:21] Eldar: Sure, you can do that, but specifically when you introduce the word, the phrase how to live a good life, I don't think there's a competition behind there.

[00:45:29] Uh, there's no surviving. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? It's, uh- Thriving ... it's thriving. 

[00:45:34] Mike: Yeah. For sure. 

[00:45:34] Eldar: And just because you're surviving, you know, and killing somebody or stealing from someone- 

[00:45:40] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:45:40] Eldar: you know, even like the things that we're, we discussed and 

[00:45:42] Mike: we, and- No, I, I don't mean survival of the fittest in the sense like you gotta go to war and you gotta rob and steal.

[00:45:46] I mean surviving of the fittest in the sense of like, 

[00:45:49] Eldar: um- Like 

[00:45:49] Mike: there's 

[00:45:49] Eldar: no, this concept- ... the capa- ... doesn't exist- 

[00:45:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:45:52] Eldar: No ... in the g- in 

[00:45:52] Mike: the good life. No, no, it doesn't. No. Living a good life, you know? No. I, I thought about it more in a, in a different way. 

[00:45:56] Eldar: Yeah. Survival 

[00:45:57] Mike: of the fittest is like a battle race. Of, 

[00:45:58] Eldar: of breaking through.

[00:45:58] Yeah. 

[00:45:59] Mike: But that's what's happening now pretty much, but yeah. I mean it in this different- Like there's no competition 

[00:46:03] Toliy: in living a good life. 

[00:46:04] Mike: Yeah. No, no. Of course. 

[00:46:06] Toliy: There isn't. 

[00:46:07] Mike: No. Right? 

[00:46:07] Toliy: But again, that, that's talking about what? What are you competing against? If you're competing against external things, then it is survival of the fittest.

[00:46:16] Who has the hottest shit? Yes. Yeah. Who has this? Yes. That is survival of the fittest. 

[00:46:19] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:46:20] Toliy: But when you're just in a discovery of like self and this, and like- 

[00:46:23] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:46:24] Toliy: and, and like you're, you're in the internal figuring out things internally, there's only you. There's only you 

[00:46:31] Eldar: against you. 

[00:46:31] Toliy: Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's it.

[00:46:32] So you're not like... There is no fittest. There's only just you, and it's a matter of what are you gonna make with you- 

[00:46:38] Yeah ... and what do you actually believe is possible- Yeah ... with you. And I just think that a lot of people's anger and a lot of people's understanding of life it operates from the, from the mindset of there's nothing within you, but there's everything out there.

[00:46:54] Eldar: Yeah. So- That's the selling point ... so you- Where like you ain't shit. 

[00:46:58] Toliy: Yes. 

[00:46:58] Eldar: Everything is out there. 

[00:46:59] Toliy: Yes, and you need, like, it, it, it just like, uh, you're like the you feel that like you're just like a bland salad, and you need as much dressing as possible to make it good. 

[00:47:10] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:47:13] Toliy: And that's what, like, a lot of life is, is to again, get, like, nice clothing, get nice things, have a bunch of money, have status, right? Have fame, have, like, social media clout. 

[00:47:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:47:26] Toliy: So that you can allegedly feel particular ways

[00:47:36] Eldar: It's a, it's an interesting paradox 

[00:47:38] Toliy: Yeah. But I don't know, like, when like, like I just saw a video recently of, um, Ronaldo in Toronto- 

[00:47:44] ... 

[00:47:44] Toliy: And he goes out on like his balcony, and there's like thousands of fans there- 

[00:47:49] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:47:49] Toliy: cheering, cheering for him. 

[00:47:50] Eldar: Idolizing him. Yeah, like where he's- I would toss that guy, man.

[00:47:52] I would toss him. 

[00:47:55] Toliy: But my question is that does that make him feel like the like he has more people cheering for him than like anyone else out there, does that make him immune to suffering or does he not... if we audited his every day and his, his life affairs. 

[00:48:11] Eldar: I think he became a good runner.

[00:48:13] How about that? 

[00:48:13] Toliy: Yeah. I think you have to be to be a good soccer player. 

[00:48:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:18] Toliy: But I think that you can also confuse playing soccer and playing life. 

[00:48:23] Eldar: This is true. 

[00:48:24] Toliy: Those are two different sports. 

[00:48:26] Eldar: Those are two different sports, yeah. 

[00:48:28] Toliy: But oftentimes the craziest fans of soccer they actually mix it, where it's, they c- they can't just say like, "Hey, he's just a good soccer player," but he could also be a piece of shit.

[00:48:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:48:40] Toliy: That doesn't exist. 

[00:48:42] Eldar: Yeah. But we worship I mean, society worships them like they're all around. 

[00:48:48] Toliy: Of course. Because the they idolize it because they, they think that this is it. 

[00:48:54] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:48:59] Toliy: Yeah. It's like one, one of the important things, right? It's like in like the Ten Commandments that they always said like, "Do not idolize anyone but God," right? 

[00:49:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:07] Toliy: I think that was said for a reason. 

[00:49:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:49:10] Toliy: Because no one but, for example, like the all-knowing- 

[00:49:14] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:49:15] Toliy: can be immune to- 

[00:49:17] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:49:17] Toliy: doing wrong. So if you can only idolize things that are immune to the wrongdoing.

[00:49:21] Yeah. Basically, right? Like that, that's the only safe thing to idolize, right? 

[00:49:25] Eldar: Yeah. That's why you can't have, Buddhist also say the only desire you can have, the actual desire you can have, is the desire to enlighten yourself because it's encompassing of helping others. 

[00:49:36] Toliy: Yeah. And everything else- Uh-

[00:49:38] can carry the opportunity for- 

[00:49:40] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:49:40] Toliy: wrongdoing. 

[00:49:41] Eldar: That's right. 

[00:49:43] Toliy: Again, that message was very particular. 

[00:49:47] Eldar: But it wasn't communicated properly. 

[00:49:48] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:49:48] Eldar: And it wasn't passed down properly. 

[00:49:50] Toliy: Yeah. Was all of that the forefront of life back in the day before entertainment and before like pop stars and before social media and all of that?

[00:50:00] Wa- was that the... Was back in the day religion in many places the, the loudest message, period? 

[00:50:08] Eldar: Hmm 

[00:50:09] Toliy: Was, was that law at some point? I think it was 

[00:50:14] Eldar: I think maybe. Yeah 

[00:50:15] Toliy: Right? All these religious things were laws at some point. But what happened to that?

[00:50:22] I'll tell, I can tell you what happened to that 

[00:50:24] Eldar: Oh. 

[00:50:25] Toliy: You had individuals that felt that four times four was 20 

[00:50:30] Eldar: Yeah. We know of one. 

[00:50:32] Toliy: Yeah 

[00:50:33] Eldar: Actually know of one 

[00:50:34] Toliy: And that's how these things happen. That's how society is. It, it, because four times four was intended to be 16, but someone said it was 12, and then told others about it.

[00:50:51] Yeah And they adopted it also They adopted it, yeah And they, and they just grew their whole life thinking that four times four is 12 Is 

[00:50:56] Eldar: 12, yeah 

[00:50:57] Toliy: And now there's millions of people out there saying four times four is 12 or four times four is 17 

[00:51:03] Eldar: But what about the notion of Socrates believed that everybody has their own role in life.

[00:51:08] They're born into it, and they ought to just play that role. Not everyone's supposed to be a philosopher. Not everyone's supposed to be a doctor. Not everyone's supposed to be a mechanic, right? Everyone kinda has their path 

[00:51:20] Toliy: Well, I think that- 

[00:51:20] Eldar: And the other- ... that's 

[00:51:20] Toliy: like- 

[00:51:23] Eldar: Not everyone's supposed to be a thinker.

[00:51:26] Some people ought to be slaves. They're supposed to just be- Yeah, 

[00:51:29] Toliy: see, I don't know if you're, if they're supposed to be that way, but I think that they're, they're going to be. It's going to happen. 

[00:51:34] Eldar: It's going to happen, whether they like it or not. 

[00:51:36] Toliy: Yeah. Well, yeah, that, that's just the reality of things.

[00:51:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:39] Toliy: Because you're there's the, there's no way that every person's gonna be, like, humble enough and- 

[00:51:45] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:51:46] Toliy: having that kind of same desire to, like, learn. 

[00:51:50] Eldar: And pursue the, the good life. 

[00:51:51] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:51:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:51:53] Toliy: Because they also have to be convinced of it, and there, there is no way that you can say that everyone's going to be convinced of these ways of doing things.

[00:52:02] Eldar: Yeah, I wish the guest that we invited was here, because I think, um, he would've brought a lot of insight from the other side And we would had a, a really, I think, uh, a lot livelier conversation Yeah, see, I don't know if, 

[00:52:17] Toliy: I don't know if that person would 

[00:52:19] Eldar: You think they would hide? Um- They would not agree?

[00:52:22] Mike: No, I think he wouldn't hide. I 

[00:52:24] Eldar: think, I don't think so. I think he would tell you exactly what's most important. 

[00:52:27] Mike: He is all about his shit. 

[00:52:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:52:29] Mike: He's ex- he's, believes in what he believes in very strongly. 

[00:52:33] Eldar: Yeah. And he 

[00:52:34] Mike: values what he values. No. 

[00:52:38] Eldar: Which is the externals 

[00:52:39] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. Well, sure. But then I think that- And-

[00:52:41] with that they would also have to admit that, like, they, they would have to, I- if they're operating from that kind of place, they would have to feel that they are... They would have to admit openly that they're actually very happy, for example. It w- it 

[00:52:57] Eldar: probably would have concluded to either- Yeah

[00:52:58] that or us being able to he- Yeah ... help with challenging the state of mind and the peace, right? Yeah. Where, "Hey, because of these things and everything that you're worshiping, right, they're actually taking away from your peace." You know, it's either that challenge or he would admit the fact that everything is exactly like how he wants it to be.

[00:53:16] Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 

[00:53:16] Toliy: Well, that or they, so they would either have to admit that they're happy or they would have to admit that this is how things are, and they can't be convinced otherwise. 

[00:53:23] Mike: Yeah. Both. Yeah. 

[00:53:24] Toliy: That, like, this suffering- Yeah ... like you have to suffer like this. This is part of it. 

[00:53:28] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:29] Eldar: Right? 

[00:53:29] Mike: Yeah. 100%.

[00:53:29] Toliy: So it's either one or... Y- Like, that, that would have to be it. 

[00:53:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:33] Toliy: Which, which again is okay. 

[00:53:36] Mike: Well, that's how you keep it together. If you then the p- the whole point of this thing is not to let your shit crumble. Imagine he, the person has a complete crumbling of his belief system. 

[00:53:45] Eldar: Well, I don't know, I don't know if you, I don't know if you noticed, but, like, he started drinking a little bit more.

[00:53:50] Mike: Yeah, it's funny you mention that because I was just thinking about that last night. 

[00:53:52] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:53:53] Toliy: No, 

[00:53:53] Mike: that- Like, when I was on the phone with him ... that's for sure. 

[00:53:55] Eldar: Yeah. Where he used to never- Sure ... like, when we used to drink, like, a good amount- 

[00:53:59] ... 

[00:53:59] Eldar: You know what I mean, and we used to always invite, like, he was always like, "No, no, no."

[00:54:03] But now that we don't... I actually think that just his intake just went up tremendously- 

[00:54:07] Mike: Yeah. ... from what it was before. Well, I think he did because he's probably more stressed than ever. 

[00:54:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:12] Mike: You know, 'cause he has more things now. 

[00:54:14] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:14] Mike: And more unhappiness. Like- Yeah 

[00:54:18] ... 

[00:54:18] Mike: Unconscious unhappiness.

[00:54:21] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:54:22] Mike: So yeah, I do agree with that. Yeah. Well, I told you I called him yesterday and I thought he was sauced. It was like- 

[00:54:26] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:54:27] Mike: Thursday night. 

[00:54:28] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was rambling. He's speaking about it a lot more obviously, you know, so- 

[00:54:33] Mike: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:54:33] Eldar: I think he's maybe coping with it. 

[00:54:35] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:54:35] Eldar: With it all. 

[00:54:36] Mike: Yeah. I think so.

[00:54:38] Eldar: Those things are probably ruling him. 

[00:54:40] Yeah. That's why I wanted to bring this topic up is because- ... I thought this would be relevant, and maybe we're able to bring some insight, but he wasn't here. It's okay. Next time. 

[00:54:48] So do we have any suggestions? Any- anything else? Uh, again, we're concluding to the same thing, but yeah, through communication, everything else was not passed on, and those individuals who don't have the time or the effort to dig a little bit deeper to find out what's- Yeah

[00:55:03] actually true or what's not are probably not gonna benefit and have a good life. 

[00:55:07] Mike: Well, I mean, the stuff that we're like, you know, discussing now, this is the same stuff that my buddy over here was talking about how many thousand years ago, so. 

[00:55:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:55:18] Mike: What has changed i- fundamentally, right? People still people, peopling.

[00:55:24] Yeah. 

[00:55:24] Toliy: The information was there. We're talking about thousands of years ago. 

[00:55:28] Mike: Exactly. All information is always- 

[00:55:30] Toliy: The, the truth was there ... yeah, 

[00:55:31] Mike: always. The truth was there. 

[00:55:33] Toliy: Yeah. And I actually don't even know now whether the opportunity or the, the truth i- is more now than back then because now you, you have like- A lot more noise

[00:55:42] you have a lot more noise- 

[00:55:43] Mike: A lot more people ... 

[00:55:44] Toliy: a lot more people, and you have a lot less need to think. 

[00:55:49] Based on the marketing of societies that, "Hey, you don't need to think anymore or know." We got you. You just need AI. We got 

[00:55:54] Mike: you covered. Well, not only that, but it's thinking is optional. You don't ha- and like to build like a good life and successful life as society's standards, I guess, you don't need to think, you just need to like, uh- 

[00:56:07] Toliy: Follow and work

[00:56:07] Mike: follow, show your ass. 

[00:56:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:56:10] Mike: I mean, there's so many ways to make money if your ultimate goal is to be rich, successful, I don't know, have lots of things. You don't need to do any of that. You just gotta be born like good-looking or something or with a big wang. 

[00:56:23] Eldar: Yeah. That's a, that's a new thing.

[00:56:25] Yeah. 

[00:56:25] Toliy: You know? Yeah. No. Yeah, and that, that's like that, that guy Clavicular. Yeah. His, again, his whole thing is that the most important thing is to be good-looking in society. 

[00:56:33] Eldar: Yeah. No, 

[00:56:34] Toliy: for success. Everything else is the... Everything else will be turn good for you if you have this based on what people want.

[00:56:40] Mike: That's what 

[00:56:40] Eldar: I- Which is, which is a good argument actually- Yeah Yeah ... in the society. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. In that, in that rat race. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It definitely helps, right? But is there any different- When you got big peanut butter cans, right? Yeah. Smooth olive skin, he said. 

[00:56:54] Toliy: Peanut butter skin. 

[00:56:55] Eldar: Peanut butter skin?

[00:56:56] Oh, no. Oh, no. It was- Big cans. Yeah, what kind of cans? 

[00:56:58] Toliy: Big cans. 

[00:56:59] Eldar: Big cans. Yeah. 

[00:57:00] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:57:00] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:57:07] I don't, I, I have nothing, yeah, in regarding this. You said you had a big rant. That was it? 

[00:57:11] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. I just feel, again, like this communication thing is big because- Mm-hmm

[00:57:20] Like that, that's the explanation to me as to like what is happening in the state of current affairs. 

[00:57:24] Now, again, whether it's all like deserved, supposed to be, probably supposed to be, right? 

[00:57:31] Eldar: Would 

[00:57:31] Toliy: you- Because it was ... 

[00:57:31] Eldar: would you mandate philosophy if you were in charge? 

[00:57:36] Toliy: See, I guess it's a it's like a tricky question because it's like- I 

[00:57:39] Eldar: am trying to trick you

[00:57:46] Toliy: a 

[00:57:46] Eldar: little bit. I, yeah, I like 

[00:57:46] Toliy: the option of choice. You do. And, um, my- But you also like to oppress a little bit. So, oh, okay. So, so let me- Yeah, let me- ... let me tie this first circle. 

[00:57:49] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:57:49] Toliy: My unders- Like, when I first started to understand philosophy in my early years of when, of like just being introduced to it, and seeing how like...

[00:57:58] Once I got to the point of like, "Wow, this is so great. Everybody should be forced into it," that was my first like- 

[00:58:04] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:58:04] Toliy: thesis of life. 

[00:58:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:58:05] Toliy: I have to oppress everybody. You gotta listen because this is the best shit ever. 

[00:58:09] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:58:09] Toliy: Right? 

[00:58:10] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:58:10] Toliy: And then I also realized when I try to do that myself- 

[00:58:13] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:58:14] Toliy: that, hey you actually turn into the bad guy.

[00:58:17] You actually turn into the, the enemy when you're like, people are angry at you for giving, for trying to give them the best thing ever. What the- Yeah ... fuck's going on here? 

[00:58:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:58:25] Toliy: And I think that now I'm also more respectful of the, um, the freedom of choice, like the, uh, the, uh, the, the ability to choose- Yeah

[00:58:35] and the freedom to do whatever you want to do. Even if I have to Be like a, uh, e- even if I know this person and I can see that they're doing what I view as, like, potentially, like, the wrong things, I need to be respectful of their desire to do that. And again it, it, like, it's back to that thing of like, people don't like to be changed.

[00:58:57] Yeah. And if I'm the one that's peddling forceful change, I will not be liked, guaranteed, and my message will not be heard regardless,

[00:59:06] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:59:06] Toliy: So no, I don't think I would mandate philosophy. I think I'd be... Before if you asked me this, I think I, I would. 

[00:59:13] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:59:13] Toliy: You gotta force everybody into this shit.

[00:59:15] Yeah. You know, because it is the best thing ever. Yeah. But I also think that,

[00:59:18] Eldar: Now you 

[00:59:19] Toliy: believe in justice ... yeah, I think that w- well, well, I think that, like, the, um, the most graceful and best kind of change is when somebody has a desire to do it. To, to 

[00:59:28] Eldar: learn, yeah. 

[00:59:29] Toliy: And then you can help them as much as they want to be helped.

[00:59:32] Okay, so, so- And they will... And then they actually have the ability to be helped when there's the matching of energy, of their desire to be helped is matched with your ability to help, and that continues us- to, like, be up kept, right? Yeah. That to me is, like, the most, like, pro- the best type of, like, relationship.

[00:59:49] Eldar: Ideal relationship, yeah. Yeah. So you... Then would you, would, then would you say it's, uh, it's just a matter of timing? 

[00:59:56] Toliy: Everything's a matter of timing. 

[00:59:57] Eldar: Everything? 

[00:59:58] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:59:58] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:59:59] Toliy: Because again, there, there's the, uh, the forceful- 

[01:00:03] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:00:03] Toliy: restoring of balance that everybody is subject to. 

[01:00:07] Eldar: W- whether you like 

[01:00:07] Toliy: it or not.

[01:00:08] No one's immune to death, no one's immune to suffering. 

[01:00:10] Eldar: Except that guy that's trying to, uh, beat aging, right? 

[01:00:13] Toliy: Yeah, and hi- hi- that, yeah, and he, he just announced his whole shit's fucked up. 

[01:00:17] Eldar: Yeah. The fuck was wrong with this guy? 

[01:00:19] Toliy: Yeah. All his blood tests are bad. 

[01:00:20] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:00:24] Toliy: His whole gut lining is fucked.

[01:00:25] Eldar: It's crazy. But expected, right?

[01:00:32] I guess, uh, eating his, uh, girl's pussy wasn't enough b- good bacteria, right?

[01:00:40] So he said something like that. 

[01:00:41] Mike: Oh, yeah? I don't know 

[01:00:42] Eldar: anything. He, he tweeted something like that. Really? Said, yeah, I was just- Mm ... eating a pussy or something like that, and like, I did her tests and found out that she has, like, good bacteria in there or something like that. Nice. Some weird shit. 

[01:00:51] Mike: That's chuchin shit.

[01:00:52] Eating your own shit. Or other people's 

[01:00:56] Eldar: shit, sorry. 

[01:00:57] Toliy: Other people's shit have good gut health. 

[01:00:58] Eldar: Good gut health, yeah. Okay. Yeah, so there you go. Presc- that's your prescription, right? I mean... 

[01:01:03] Toliy: That, that, that's why Harry said that if you wanna change, you gotta take a fart from Socrates. 

[01:01:08] Eldar: Yeah, you gotta eat 

[01:01:09] Toliy: Socrates's farts.

[01:01:12] And if your shit's real fucked up, you might have to eat a piece of shit. Crap in your mouth. Crap in your mouth. Do a crapper. 

[01:01:20] Eldar: Oh, my God. 

[01:01:22] Toliy: Oh, man. 

[01:01:23] Eldar: Shit. Interesting. The, 

[01:01:26] Toliy: The best thing is when this fucking, these fucking guys explain this to, like, the outside world- Yes ... it is the most epic shit ever. Like, yo- It was, 

[01:01:34] Eldar: yeah

[01:01:35] Toliy: your shit's fucked, so, like, be prepared, you might have to take, take a crapper. Try... 

[01:01:38] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:01:40] Toliy: It's like, and this person said I have to eat his shit? Just, like, think about that. 

[01:01:45] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. And he's saying it seriously. 

[01:01:46] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:01:47] Eldar: Yeah. And it's like he believes this shit. 

[01:01:48] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:01:48] Eldar: You know what I mean? Like... 

[01:01:49] Toliy: Yeah, if your shit's fucked up, you might have to t- take a fart.

[01:01:52] Eldar: And if you don't know what we're re- referencing, our listeners, it's, uh, Harris. 

[01:01:56] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:01:56] Eldar: Harris, uh, the guy that we're trying to raise- 

[01:01:59] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[01:02:00] Eldar: to be the President of the United States in 25 years. We're still on that mission. 

[01:02:03] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:02:04] Eldar: And, uh, soon we're gonna be coming out with a lot of content. I don't know how soon.

[01:02:08] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:02:09] Eldar: I'm, I guess I'm on, like, Elon Musk's time when it comes- Yeah ... to that kind of shit. You know what I mean? 

[01:02:12] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:02:13] Eldar: We got so much good shit in the pipeline, but there's a lot of- 

[01:02:15] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[01:02:16] Eldar: all the shit that, that needs to be done and stuff, so, uh, we'll get there. We'll get to it. We'll definitely get to it. Yeah, I don't have any suggestions, you know, aside the fact that, like, you p- you, you guys explained it pretty well on how this show works, and why is it sometimes that the illusion of someone who's have, w- who seems to have a good life doesn't have a good life at all, um- 

[01:02:36] Mike: Yeah ... where all this came from. It's the, it's the same- 

[01:02:39] Eldar: And then the person who- ... thing ... sorry, Mike, to cut you off, but, uh, sometimes to a person who actually is having a good life. Like, we actually had a, had, we had our friend here, right? Who, uh, Billy's friend. Mm-hmm. Forgot his name now. 

[01:02:51] Mike: Greg. 

[01:02:51] Eldar: Greg, right, who explained his life right now, who has a choice, right?

[01:02:56] He doesn't have to go to school or work. He's kinda taking it easy, and he has that luxury, right? Somebody from the outside might look at it as like, "Oh, this guy's a complete bum." 

[01:03:06] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:03:07] Eldar: Yeah. You know? So as a society at least, right? We might have it backwards, and that's the challenge for any of our listeners that, you know, if internally you've been struggling, all right, and you don't really know where to turn and how to turn, and externally you think you've got it made or you're good, uh, maybe you had it all backwards and some reevaluation is necessary, is needed, you know, because something's not clicking 

[01:03:31] Mike: yeah 

[01:03:34] Eldar: But when he goes on dates Greg? 

[01:03:36] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:03:37] Eldar: He can't introduce himself to say like, "Oh, I, I, I don't have a job." 

[01:03:40] You know, he's not some decorated- It's not a value ... 

[01:03:42] Mike: scientist. 

[01:03:43] Eldar: No, it's not right. But he still, he doesn't have a job now? No. 

[01:03:45] Mike: No. 

[01:03:46] Eldar: He doesn't have a job, and he's like in the middle of his PhD or whatever.

[01:03:49] He has like three or four months left to complete it, but he's like stalling it. He's not doing it. But he's kinda like just, chilling, hanging 

[01:03:56] Toliy: out. So how, how does he get, like, money? 

[01:03:57] Eldar: Oh, he saved from previous work or something. Yeah. He had investments or something like that. He has some money, so, like, he's just kinda being frugal with his money.

[01:04:05] And he makes, like, little side gigs. Side gigs and things, yeah, but he's happy. Mm-hmm. Like, in that sense. What, side 

[01:04:10] Mike: gigs from what, paddle pickleball instructions. 

[01:04:12] Eldar: Oh. Yeah. 

[01:04:13] Mike: Okay. 

[01:04:14] Eldar: But when he goes on dates, he doesn't say any of this, right? Mm-hmm. He, he hides. 

[01:04:18] And he's scared to present the fact that he has more so, like, a freegan lifestyle right now.

[01:04:24] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:04:25] Eldar: See? 

[01:04:26] Toliy: Well, yeah. He's trying to offer... he's trying to compete in the external life with ex- with his external items. 

[01:04:33] Eldar: Which is nothing. 

[01:04:34] Toliy: Which is nothing. At 

[01:04:34] Eldar: this moment. 

[01:04:35] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:04:35] Eldar: Yeah. He realizes that. 

[01:04:37] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:04:38] Eldar: Yeah. Interesting. It's an interesting dilemma. All right. What are you guys' final thoughts on this?

[01:04:46] Mike? Good life. Is it as easy or is it as close as it seems like? Or is it an elusive bugger? 

[01:04:58] Mike: Yeah, I think it's- Yeah, I think it's, um

[01:05:07] That's a good, it's a good, the good life is, uh, is something worth, like, uh, working for, and I think it's only worth working for because of the position that we're in based on how, like, uh, our parents and our parents' parents, right? Society, all that stuff. But nonetheless, it's, uh, it's accessible, I think.

[01:05:28] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:05:29] Mike: You know? So yeah, I, like, I tend to think what you said earlier about Socrates said, um, about if you're born to be, like, a carpenter, be a carpenter. If you're born to be a philosopher, you, you should be a philosopher, you know? So everybody has, like, maybe everybody has- 

[01:05:47] Eldar: Their paths ... 

[01:05:48] Mike: for the ideal, ideal society, at least the way he was describing it is- 

[01:05:53] Their roles in their society, and I think- 

[01:05:56] Eldar: And we'll be the happiest if we follow those roles. 

[01:05:58] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:05:59] Eldar: That was the challenge. 

[01:06:00] Mike: Yeah, but I think it's also to get... Yeah, like, because society, because population grows faster than human consciousness you're running into that problem. You know, I think actually, uh, Albert Einstein or something said something like that.

[01:06:16] Eldar: Mm. 

[01:06:16] Mike: He said when technology surpasses, like, uh, humanity, then everybody's fucked or some-something like that. 

[01:06:23] Eldar: Really? 

[01:06:23] Mike: Yeah. Yeah, because then it's like, in a way, I guess maybe, I don't know how he thought about it, but to me it's maybe like- There's, it's a setback, tem- Mm ... like maybe temporary, but temporary is not like a minute or two.

[01:06:36] I'm talking about could be like years, 100 years, 50 years, where people evo- like people didn't have a chance to, to think or to develop those, like a, a, skills to critically think because everything's so fast, you know? Mm-hmm. Like the world has changed so much. Even like you said, there was one parent at home, now you can't have one parent at home.

[01:06:58] It has to be two,

[01:06:59] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:06:59] Mike: Who's raising the kids? 

[01:07:01] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:02] Mike: Teachers who are themselves overworked, maybe doing it for money only. I don't, I mean, I don't know that, but like- 

[01:07:09] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:07:09] Mike: you know, people are just doing stuff just to make money, maybe not having the ability because their parents like never gave them a chance to find out what they like.

[01:07:16] They kinda just pushed them. So it's the circle is the circle, I guess, but it's not impossible to come out of it, I think. 

[01:07:25] Eldar: It's in- And- It's not impossible. 

[01:07:26] Mike: No not, I'm not sure for e- every single person, but people can come out of it, I think. To like really have a choice in what kind of life they're gonna live- Wow

[01:07:39] on an individual basis. 

[01:07:41] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:07:41] Mike: You 

[01:07:41] Eldar: know? 

[01:07:42] Toliy: Thank 

[01:07:42] Eldar: you. 

[01:07:42] Mike: Toliy? 

[01:07:44] Toliy: You know I like my, my, uh, mo- movie quotes. 

[01:07:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:49] Toliy: You know Mr. Albus Dumble- Dumbledore? 

[01:07:52] Eldar: I do. 

[01:07:53] Toliy: Okay. In the beginning of the series, he told Harry in the beginning- 

[01:07:58] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:07:58] Toliy: he said, "Help-" 

[01:07:59] Eldar: He had a thing for Harry, right? 

[01:08:00] Toliy: Yeah. Okay. Because he knew that he, he identified Harry as like the, like the savior of everything.

[01:08:04] Yeah, 

[01:08:05] Eldar: yeah. 

[01:08:05] Toliy: You know? He said that help will always be given at Hogwarts, which was a school. Help will always be given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it. 

[01:08:13] Eldar: Oh. 

[01:08:15] Toliy: And at the end of the series, in the Deathly Hallows, he amends his statement. 

[01:08:20] Eldar: He amends it? 

[01:08:20] Toliy: He amends it. He 

[01:08:21] Eldar: changes it. 

[01:08:21] Toliy: He changes it. 

[01:08:22] Eldar: Oh. 

[01:08:22] Toliy: And he writes he says, So yeah, so early in the series he said that to, to, to him 

[01:08:27] Eldar: He's gonna give help.

[01:08:28] The 

[01:08:28] Toliy: hardware's gonna- Help will always be given to those- To those who ask ... who ask for it. 

[01:08:31] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:08:31] Toliy: And then towards the end of the series, he amends his statement. He says, "Help will always be given to people that deserve it." 

[01:08:39] Eldar: Oh. Damn. I like that, man. I like that. I mean, I mean, I'm sh- I kinda share his sentiment, right?

[01:08:48] Don't we share his sentiment, though? 

[01:08:51] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:08:52] Eldar: Right? 

[01:08:54] Toliy: Yeah. Because help will not be always given to those people- 

[01:08:58] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:08:58] Toliy: who ask for it. 

[01:08:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:09:00] Toliy: Because there's, like, a lot of dot, dot. 

[01:09:02] Eldar: There's a lot 

[01:09:02] Toliy: of d- yes. Only if this or that. Correct. You're arrogant. 

[01:09:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:09:06] Toliy: But help will always be given to those 

[01:09:08] Eldar: who- Who actually 

[01:09:09] Toliy: deserve

[01:09:09] who, who show that they- 

[01:09:09] Eldar: That deserve ... deserve it. 

[01:09:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:10] Mike: Or maybe help will be given to them, but their ability to take it is not gonna be there if they're too arrogant. 

[01:09:16] Eldar: Yeah. Well, yeah, that's what he said. Yeah. That's why there's a lot of variables that might- Yeah ... hold you away from actually receiving that help.

[01:09:20] Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:09:20] Toliy: And- 

[01:09:20] Eldar: Why did 

[01:09:21] Toliy: he amend the statement in the final book? 

[01:09:23] Eldar: He's a fucking idiot. No, but that's good. It's good that he did. What do you mean? 

[01:09:26] Toliy: No, he was never a fucking idiot. 

[01:09:28] Eldar: No, but he got that part wrong, just like we got it wrong, too. 

[01:09:31] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:32] Eldar: What do you mean? We got that wrong, too. 

[01:09:33] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:34] Eldar: And we amending the same thing.

[01:09:35] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:35] Eldar: You know what I mean? Hence, why we have all the, you know, things that we went through with a lot of the people, because of that specific thing. 

[01:09:43] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:44] Eldar: Yeah I agree with that. That's good. He doesn't explain it, he just says it. But obviously 

[01:09:52] Toliy: he went through a lot. Well, there, there's, there's ex- there, there's a lot of quotes.

[01:09:54] He's, like he, he was actually a very wise, like a- Mm-hmm ... very like a- 

[01:09:58] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:09:59] Toliy: like a, like he, he, he was a good-hearted p- person. 

[01:10:03] Eldar: He wasn't a creeper. 

[01:10:04] Toliy: No, no, no. He was- 50/50. Yeah, 50/50. But he, uh, you know. Yeah, 

[01:10:07] Eldar: yeah, yeah. 

[01:10:08] Toliy: Yeah, he, he definitely had a lot of like wise things, you know? 

[01:10:11] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:10:12] Toliy: Yeah. He, he had another quote here I saw that, I don't know Harry was like talking about like, uh, about his li- about like the fears of death or like stuff like that.

[01:10:21] And he told Harry, he said, "Do not pity the dead, Harry. Pity the living and above all those who live without love." 

[01:10:28] Eldar: Oh. 

[01:10:31] Yeah. 

[01:10:31] Toliy: So he, he was definitely like a, like in that series, a very wise- 

[01:10:34] Eldar: Philosopher ... 

[01:10:35] Toliy: philosopher. Like, no yeah. I mean, that, that's why he was like the, like the- The OG

[01:10:39] the grandmaster of the school. 

[01:10:40] Eldar: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[01:10:41] Toliy: You know? 

[01:10:41] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:10:42] Toliy: Like he, yeah, he wa- he was intending to do right, I think. Like that was his thing. 

[01:10:47] Eldar: All right. Well, look, we're in the new office space. We're gonna continue this obviously. I think that we, to some degree, we call this the Forever Podcast because it seems like, at least for us working on yourself is a ongoing forever thing.

[01:11:01] It never stops. There's so much knowledge. There's so wealth of knowledge out there to be gotten. We're constantly developing, we're constantly learning, and um- And that's it. You know? If you wanna have a good life, if you're listening, I guess keep listening if you want to, right? Because I think that we're on the same journey as you are, the listeners, if you're looking to, you know, to better yourself.

[01:11:24] So 

[01:11:24] Toliy: your, so people's bad life is not at the fault of them damn Democrats? 

[01:11:30] Eldar: Listen, it could be. You know, if that's what they believe, they can believe that. But, uh, I think I'm siding with you here that, people have to just take accountability for their own lives. You know, that's what their empowerment is.

[01:11:41] So I'm gonna call... I'm gonna click this next button, and I'm gonna finish it with that. 

[01:11:48] Intro: Oh, gather round now for Eldar and for Mike. And listen to the words from our dear brother Toliy. From the Dennis Rocks Podcast, a comfort to the soul. Their profound insights make our weary spirits whole. 

[01:12:18] Eldar: All right, guys.

[01:12:19] Thank you. Have a good night