218. Escapism - Reclaiming Your Attention Span

Why do most people spend their entire lives operating under a veil of pain, continuously trapped in a coping mechanism loop rather than taking control of their own life? 

In this episode, Mike, Toliy, and Eldar dissect the psychological trap that keeps individuals perpetually stuck in daily stress, short attention spans, and endless distraction. They break down why most people choose temporary band-aids over true self-evaluation, how the loss of focus creates a permanent state of helplessness, and what it actually takes to break free and gain real conscious choice. 

Key Takeaways:

• The Relief Trap: How daily decision-making driven by relieving pain and suffering locks you into an endless loop of low-ROI distractions. 
• The Attention Span Sickness: Why modern distractions destroy your focus and attention span—and why your mind secretly wants ADD as a defense mechanism against pain. 
• The Truman Show of Coping: How people unconsciously build a repetitive reality to justify staying in their comfort zone rather than facing the truth. 
• Reclaiming Conscious Choice: The exact mindset shift and grueling process required to rebuild your attention span and step out of the cave. 

Most Insightful Moment"When you're in a lot of pain, the last thing that you want is the ability to pay attention. So you actually want a crazy amount of ADD because it actually serves you in helping you relieve that pain that you have because you don't have the ability to face it."— Toliy 

Near the end of the conversation, the guys confront a brutal question: How do you rebuild an attention span when every instinct in your body craves instant pain relief? Toliy reveals the counterintuitive first step—and why doing the exact opposite of what you’ve been trying might be your only way out... but can you handle the grueling process before your time runs out? 

Tune in now to reclaim your attention span and break the loop.

Feel stuck and can't actualize? We'd love to hear your story - form  - https://forms.gle/joegCWQ7mHt7eN3K9

Transcript

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[00:00:00] Dennis: On this week's episode 

[00:00:01] Toliy: Many people are not willing to dig enough to get to a point where they find something. Why? Because they're not going to like what they find. 

[00:00:11] Mike: And what is that? For the people who are not thinking about this kind of stuff, yeah, more suffering is like what doctor's recommendations, you know?

[00:00:20] More suffering will maybe lead you to start questioning stuff. 

[00:00:26] Toliy: You're one of those people that perpetually say that like, hey, like you're tired of this or you're tired of this kind of life or you want better. Like you have to prove it or just shut your mouth.

[00:00:44] Eldar: All right, guys. Another Friday, another episode. Toliy, hit us with it. You had a lot of to say on this topic. You said you also said one line that you really, really like. 

[00:00:58] Toliy: It's over for everybody? 

[00:00:59] Eldar: It's over for everybody. Based on what you're about to say. 

[00:01:03] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:01:04] Eldar: So why don't you hit us with it, man? What the fuck?

[00:01:07] Toliy: All right. I mean-

[00:01:11] Eldar: Wow, what a sigh ... 

[00:01:12] Toliy: des- deserves a proper sigh. 

[00:01:13] Eldar: All right. 

[00:01:14] You basically saying a lot of bullshit, 

[00:01:16] Toliy: man. 

[00:01:17] You ever seen somebody make a cheeseburger in a shopping cart? All right. So how do I introduce this, - This realization that may cause you to be at your breaking point,

[00:01:30] Eldar: oh, yeah. 

[00:01:31] Toliy: Or may cause you to pack it in.

[00:01:34] Eldar: Oh, yeah. Pack it in completely. 

[00:01:36] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:01:36] Eldar: And try again. 

[00:01:37] Toliy: And try again.

[00:01:39] Eldar: The best way to start is always through your own example. 

[00:01:42] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:01:42] Eldar: It's the easiest way. 

[00:01:44] Toliy: Yeah. Well, I'm just trying to figure out what's the what's the best way to introduce a topic and how to go about it. 

[00:01:49] But I feel like o- once I get into it, it'll be easy. But the main topic I would say would be about There's two different, I think, very different lives to live, and two different distinctly ways to operate.

[00:02:05] And my observation is that most people, operate, , life through a, like a, veil of, , pain. 

[00:02:14] Eldar: The veil of pain.

[00:02:15] Okay. 

[00:02:15] Toliy: So because many people are in a state of pain and suffering and stress, all of their daily decisions are typically made from that place of relieving pain, suffering, and stress.

[00:02:30] Eldar: Okay. 

[00:02:31] Toliy: And because of that, it puts a lot of people into a, uh, loop that they really have a hard time escaping because they have no... pockets of freedom to escape this, cycle I would, I would call it. And anything that they kind of like desire to like do or want to do, usually their, their pockets of freedom are spent on desiring things.

[00:02:53] So thinking about like wants and thinking about things that they would like. Which is the reif- relief point then. Yeah, which is like the, uh, relief point where you have a little bit of time.

[00:03:02] And that's usually a time for, again, to like buy things, to think about things, to want things, to take a vacation, stuff like that.

[00:03:09] But beyond that, there really isn't much capacity for anything else outside of relieving your- Stress. 

[00:03:16] Eldar: What is that other stuff that you're talking about? Everything else. What is that? Well- Like growth? 

[00:03:20] Toliy: So 

[00:03:21] Eldar: the 

[00:03:22] Toliy: other life- Monumental shifts? ... the other life that I think is out there is a life that comes out of like, more like, from like dreams from being able to capitalize on desires and wants to be able to capitalize on creativity and on, on like discovery, And to participate in life in that kind of way, which to me is a completely different way.

[00:03:45] It's a very different style where maybe you wake up every morning, like, looking forward to, like, the day and that you can- 

[00:03:51] Eldar: Proactive 

[00:03:52] versus reactive ... 

[00:03:53] Toliy: yeah, you're, you're more of a proactive person. Okay. And, and you're a person that can, like, desire to do something and then has the ability to act on it.

[00:04:02] You a- you actually have attention span that you can summon on demand. Mm-hmm. You, um, you have attention at your disposal, and usually someone that operates out of, like, stress and pain and suffering, they have no attention span. They have a permanent ADHD, like, sickness that they're living in. 

[00:04:22] And they don't have the ability to summon any kind of attention, any kind of ability to understand what's going on.

[00:04:29] They're only thinking about the past, and they're only... Well, they're thinking about the future, I would say, and they're dwelling on the past. They're like a permanent time traveler- 

[00:04:38] Eldar: Oh, wow ... 

[00:04:39] Toliy: that's just going forward and backwards and never here because they just don't have the ability to be here because being here requires focus, and it requires your attention, and they don't have it.

[00:04:51] But they can operate in, like, the, um- Uh, a world that's ne- neither here nor there, right? Like the past is already done, and they can dwell on it and have anger, for example, or like fru- frustration on things. And they can talk about the future because, like, maybe they can dream about it a little bit, but they have a, they have a delusion that they actually think that it's achievable, which is probably why they keep going.

[00:05:20] But I think they live a life where year after year passes and stresses like continue to accumulate and anger continues to like build. And, I think for, I would say most people They have no way out,

[00:05:39] Eldar: hmm. But don't we all have some kind of, like, goals or aspirations , and things that we're wanting to achieve, but it's just maybe not the right timing?

[00:05:50] Toliy: Well- 

[00:05:51] Eldar: Maybe, like, we're all stalling for some reason. Sure, like, there might be some of those reasons that you mentioned, but, sometimes good things take time. 

[00:05:59] Toliy: I do think that just naturally, I think good things do take time. But I do think that the, uh, daily decision-making that a person has, like, they don't have any kind of decision-making.

[00:06:10] They don't have any... They, they only operate from a place of relieving the pain and suffering that they currently have. And that's why they eat a ton of, I don't know, junk food or fried food, or they get latched onto sports or to shows or to, like, very particular things that kind of re- relieve a particular type of pain.

[00:06:29] And they just develop nasty attitudes too as well, and they're they just become very difficult people because they can't they can't they have no, they- 

[00:06:38] Eldar: They can't achieve 

[00:06:39] those aspirations. 

[00:06:40] Toliy: Yeah, they can't achieve the aspirations and th- they also can't understand, like- Maybe why they're in this position, or maybe they just feel that, like, the world is a shitty place and I'm just part of it, is kind of how they feel, I think.

[00:06:54] That, like, life just kinda sucks. 

[00:06:56] Eldar: So kind of- It just is ... 

[00:06:56] Toliy: hopeless. 

[00:06:56] Eldar: Helpless. 

[00:06:57] Toliy: Yeah, they feel, they feel hopeless and helpless, yeah. Um, I think that the, helplessness leads to hopelessness because, like, naturally, like, if you can't help yourself, if you don't believe or understand that there's better ways of doing things and this is actually possible, then your, your lack of ability to help yourself and help others lead to the hopelessness.

[00:07:20] The hopelessness is just, like, a natural side effect of that. Yeah, no, I, I think a lot of it spans from, like, the ruining of, like, your, um, attention span with constant, distractions and constant, desire for, news and for just, different things, you know, to find out- But 

[00:07:37] Eldar: those-

[00:07:37] what's going on ... tho- those coping mechanisms came about because of your inability to deal with pain or interpret the world the right way. 

[00:07:44] Toliy: Yeah, all the above. Because yeah, like- 

[00:07:46] Eldar: Then you need distractions. It... 

[00:07:47] Toliy: Yeah, when, when the, uh... The issue is that when, um, you're, when you're in a lot of pain, the last thing that you want is the ability to pay attention.

[00:07:59] Mm. So you actually want a crazy amount of ADD because it's actually serves you in helping you relieve that pain that you have because you don't have the ability to face it. Oh. So you actually do everything you can to destroy your attention span, because- Oh ... if you have attention, it's too painful. And then I think when you become, like, a thinking individual and you wanna regain your attention span back, and you wanna be able to, like, okay, right now we're gonna do this, then we're gonna do that.

[00:08:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:08:27] Toliy: After that, we're gonna do this. Most people cannot operate in that kind of function at, like, any kind of effective rate. 

[00:08:34] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:08:34] Toliy: Because they just, they have no attention span. They constantly crave this, like, stimulation of, like, you know- 

[00:08:41] Eldar: Jumping from one thing to 

[00:08:42] Toliy: another ... jumping from one thing to another- Just a, just a-

[00:08:44] and it's just, like, an entertainment loop- ... you know, that, that, like, a lot of people crave. 

[00:08:48] Eldar: And- I'm in this entertainment loop with Love Island right now. Yeah. And I'm really enjoying myself. 

[00:08:52] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:08:52] Eldar: Should I feel a certain type of way about this? 

[00:08:54] Toliy: Depends, but know- knowing you, pro- probably not.

[00:08:58] Eldar: I'm, I'm thoroughly enjoying myself right now. 

[00:09:00] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. And then when, when you need your attention, when you actually want it- Yeah ... you don't have it, and it's very difficult to, um, to summon it. 

[00:09:08] Eldar: It's very difficult to summon it?

[00:09:12] Toliy: But it is possible, but it's very, very hard 

[00:09:18] Eldar: Mike, what do you think about this, thing that he just said, which is You basically saying a lot of bullshit, 

[00:09:23] Mike: man. I mean, yeah, I, I agree with it, definitely, but I also think, uh, it's a natural process that, that happens. You know, it's not like, uh People would do better or do differently if they knew If they knew better

[00:09:39] if they knew, but- 

[00:09:41] Toliy: Well, it's the 

[00:09:41] Eldar: no one knowing does wrong ... 

[00:09:42] Mike: no one knowing does wrong, so If they knew better, they'd choose better If they knew better, they'd choose better. So it's like- But Toliy, what do you say to that? 

[00:09:49] Toliy: I think that, that's a fact, but I do think that,

[00:09:55] Eldar: We got here somehow

[00:09:56] Toliy: yeah, I also think that part of getting out, there is this like, um-

[00:10:04] I think that there is this partially blind trust, partially like little bit of ignorance that you have to, I think, be willing to like, um, like a, uh, unknown kind of like territory that you have to be willing, I think, to enter. But most people are just not willing to be in it. Like, you know, like when the, um The person goes into like the, uh, cave who, who knows and tries to get people out.

[00:10:28] For someone to come out of the cave, I think that like there has to be some kind of almost some e- like some level of some kind of blind trust or some kind of like trust or some kind of like- 

[00:10:38] Mike: . I think in order to be able to do that, maybe humility is required. 

[00:10:43] Toliy: Yeah.

[00:10:44] No, for sure. I think before that- There, there has to be some- something, though, to... Yeah, I think that most people don't have the ability to do that and don't like, don't want to obviously do that, which is why they don't. But, To me it's like if you don't start evaluating your decisions and why you do things and where that decision is coming from.

[00:11:06] Is it coming from a place of like you're trying to relieve some pain or suffering that, that you have right now, which is why you do it, and this is why you're making that decision? Or is it contributing to- towards you getting out of this loop to then have the ability there has to be some kind of some kind of point where you start doing things differently, otherwise you just continue to do things the same way.

[00:11:28] And I think that man- many people - unknowingly eventually, when they do enough of that same type of thing and, and same type of behavior, they unknowingly I think find reason to to one, to, to, um, to justify it, and two, to basically like, uh, cope with it to normalize it, and to actually figure out ways to tell them that like, "Hey, this is actually okay and that to me is like part of the process as well to then to do that because You have to eventually explain this to yourself, and the only way that you can logically explain the phenomenon that you're experiencing to yourself is to normalize it.

[00:12:12] Otherwise you wouldn't be able to bear it. So- '

[00:12:15] Eldar: Cause it's that bad ...'

[00:12:16] Toliy: cause it's that bad. So you need to find some- 

[00:12:19] Eldar: Coping mechanism ... 

[00:12:20] Toliy: some coping mechanism, yeah, to justify your actions. But to me, it's like if you don't do something different, if you don't thoroughly examine this kind of stuff, like if you don't make that kind of like 

[00:12:33] plunge almost- 

[00:12:33] Mike: What would, what would cause a person to feel like they're doing everything right, right?

[00:12:38] Or doing the right thing. Maybe not everything, but they feel like they're, they're doing the right thing for that specific maybe subject or topic. What would cause them to be like reevaluate that? Because you're saying like, "Hey, you gotta reevaluate stop and think and change." But if a person's like convinced like let's say, oh, they're the best basketball player, right?

[00:12:56] And they... And then but they never been outside of playing against one guy, but they in their head believe they're very good, they're excellent basketball player. But then they come out to the real world and actually play somebody who understands basketball, is good, what... Like, why would, why would they ever be faced with the opportunity to come out of that?

[00:13:13] Or how would they ever be faced with the opportunity to come out and to face a different opportunity to look at things differently or see things differently or have a chance to m- m- second-guess themselves, I guess, right? 

[00:13:24] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:24] Mike: Because people are convinced that what they're doing is right. 

[00:13:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:13:27] Mike: So why would, what would it take- But would they listen 

[00:13:29] Eldar: to, yeah

[00:13:29] Mike: what would it take for them to be unconvinced, right? I think that's the word. Yeah, 

[00:13:33] Eldar: yeah. Or, or be, be doubtful at least. 

[00:13:35] Mike: Or to be doubtful, 

[00:13:36] Eldar: right, about their own... Like your dad, you know- Yeah ... like is a good example. Like you always say, he just kinda like, "Hey, leave me alone. Like that's just the way things are."

[00:13:44] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:13:44] Eldar: Right? Like who kind of maybe gave up and became hopeless and now stands on that hill or maybe will die on that hill. 

[00:13:50] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think- It's a good question ... for people like that, for the most part I think that nothing will change. That's just the, uh, reality of is that is that they have accepted that, they've almost accepted the life of pain and suffering and they will just operate out of relieving it and they will be- 

[00:14:11] Eldar: Become go- They will, they 

[00:14:11] Toliy: will- 

[00:14:12] Eldar: Can they become at least good at relieving it? 

[00:14:13] Toliy: They will become the master of placing Band-Aids over and over again and doing everything- But changing nothing

[00:14:18] thing. And that's kind of like they, they almost create like a Truman Show type of reli- of like a reality for themselves where relatively the same thing, same problems happen every single day. Oftentimes when you evaluate or like you, you just look at people who are like extremely ignorant or doing things in like extremely dumb ways, they have the same problems every single day.

[00:14:40] Mm. It's not this like unpredictable lifestyle where like one day a piano falls on their head here and the other day like this happens or that ha- It's it's the same things every single day, the same conversations with the same people, the same poor choices in the- the same sub- subjects being made, the, the same ego or arrogances being, um, sum- summoned, the same anger that continues to brew, the same thing, right?

[00:15:04] They eventually get a, a purpose from it from, like, permanently starting over every single day. 

[00:15:10] Eldar: Holy fuck. 

[00:15:11] Toliy: So, like, they o- once they have that kind of acceptance they have no... they're just aging. That's it. There, there's no more progression of, of anything. It's either aging or regression.

[00:15:23] But even people like that I think na- like, naturally through mental illnesses and physical life problems, because, like, as you age, n- naturally there's a slowing down process whether you like it or not, right? I think you're still forced to be put in positions where you have chances to evaluate and chances for, like, change.

[00:15:46] But yeah, like, you're just gonna subject yourself to the same sufferings, and you're gonna find purpose in it, and you're gonna continue to seek it and find it. And that's what you're gonna do every day. 

[00:15:57] Eldar: Fuck. Again, uh, occasionally you describe this thing so thoroughly, I think, that you describe a level of hell.

[00:16:05] I think you just did this again, or at least the way I pictured it in my mind. 

[00:16:08] Toliy: Yeah. And don't get me wrong parts of everything I'm saying is my current reality. 

[00:16:14] Eldar: Why'd you have to say that? 

[00:16:16] Toliy: I'm not coming from a place of, like, you know, I'm looking at this, like, uh- 

[00:16:18] Eldar: You're looking down upon them

[00:16:19] Toliy: yeah, like I'm looking down on these- ... gremlins, you know? But yeah, I experience all of these type, types of things. 

[00:16:24] Eldar: I mean, I think as humans, I think- Yeah ... we all do to some 

[00:16:27] Toliy: degree. 

[00:16:27] Eldar: Just, 

[00:16:28] Toliy: just- 

[00:16:28] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:16:28] Toliy: um, I would like to evaluate them, obviously. I would like to. I do have a desire for change. 

[00:16:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:16:34] Toliy: I do think that working on these things and solving them is possible.

[00:16:38] I'm, I'm definitely convinced of that. 

[00:16:40] Eldar: Yeah, you empower 

[00:16:41] Toliy: yourself, 

[00:16:42] Eldar: yeah. Um, 

[00:16:42] Toliy: but I also recognize that, like, if you just- if you just take the time to think about things that I think sound silly to other people if you think about them long enough, they won't be, they're they won't be silly to you, and they'll be, like, absolutely shocking as to why you make the decisions that you make and why you do what, um, you do.

[00:17:07] I think it's impossible to evaluate that for long enough and to agree with your decisions. 

[00:17:14] Eldar: But what about for those people who kind of maybe dialed in their ability to cope with stuff, and they just have this routine of, like, "Okay, like I have my sports, I have my, you know, hanging out, drinking maybe, partying, whatever," and, like, I'm okay with it, yeah, I think that's- They kind of sh- fi- found their little balance of maybe they're not actualizing themselves and maybe not striving for bigger goals. Maybe they have a mediocre job. 

[00:17:39] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:17:39] Eldar: You know? Uh, and they do have certain pains, but to some degree they're kind of okay with it. 

[00:17:44] Toliy: Then that, I mean, then, then, like, if they're fine with their reality and they're fine with what's going on- 

[00:17:49] Eldar: That's good

[00:17:50] Toliy: no problem. Like, I mean, they're like- 

[00:17:52] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:17:53] Toliy: there's, there's not really not much of a- 

[00:17:54] Eldar: But what you're saying though- ... conversation here ... but you're challenging- But I'll- There's a chance that they might be lying to themselves 

[00:17:58] Toliy: that- Well, I, there, there, there's not a chance. There, there, there's certainty because those- Well-

[00:18:02] same people- 

[00:18:03] Eldar: Okay, Conor McGregor 

[00:18:06] Toliy: The- What are you... 

[00:18:07] Eldar: Yeah, okay. 

[00:18:07] Toliy: They're contorting their bodies. 

[00:18:08] Eldar: Yeah. They're contorting their bodies. Yeah. 

[00:18:11] Toliy: Um, yeah, they're, um, they're m- they're certainly lying because they- Mm ... they, you're telling me those people are not the biggest complainers? 

[00:18:21] Eldar: Yeah. I would probably, I probably can't paint most people a non-complaining thing.

[00:18:27] Toliy: Yeah. Not only do they complain, I think those people are probably, not so nice to others. I'd probably envision these people having a pretty bad attitude- 

[00:18:36] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:18:36] Toliy: on a recurring basis, right? So, if they're fine with it and they, they don't wanna change it, then to me they don't believe that a different life is, is possible, which if they're not of that belief, then this is definitely not for them right now.

[00:18:52] Um, but- 

[00:18:52] Eldar: They're okay with those shadows on the wall and the cave. 

[00:18:54] Toliy: Yeah, but I also think that, um, with time if they continue to stumble upon conversations like this somehow, I think with time they will be more open to it naturally because they will be forced to slow down and think. And when they have enough time, enough attention span to slow down enough and to think enough, they will get to a point where it's impossible to put down this kind of information and move on, and that's, I think, what all those people, are like seeking whether they like it or not. Because the more- 

[00:19:30] Eldar: You, you, so fundamentally or 

[00:19:34] Toliy: There, there is for sure I think at least, there is for sure like a magnet of truth that exists. 

[00:19:40] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:19:40] Toliy: And, um, 

[00:19:42] Eldar: on the- What you're saying is you, universally we're- Yeah ... wired this way. 

[00:19:45] Toliy: Yeah. We're, well, like the universe is universally wired to bring you to the truth. 

[00:19:51] Eldar: Whether you 

[00:19:52] Toliy: like it or not. Now, how... Whether you like it or not, whether it's through old age- 

[00:19:55] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:19:56] Toliy: whether it's through sickness, whether it's through loss- 

[00:19:59] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:19:59] Toliy: whether it's through, like, a bunch of bad shit happening to, to you, whether it's, like, you feeling empty on the inside.

[00:20:06] Whatever it is, it's gonna put you in positions to think. 

[00:20:12] Eldar: Like we discussed la- Just at different paces ... last, last week we talked about unhealthy relationships, and that's one of the- Yeah ... one of those things where you will encounter, whether you like it or not. You're not some recluse in the woods not encountering problems.

[00:20:23] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:20:23] Eldar: Especially if you have relationships, social, you're a social being, you're most likely- Yeah ... gonna encounter problems. 

[00:20:29] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:20:30] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:20:30] Toliy: So just many people are not willing to,

[00:20:35] Eldar: Dig? 

[00:20:36] Toliy: They're, they're not willing to dig, dig enough to get to a point where they find something. 

[00:20:41] Eldar: Why? 

[00:20:42] Toliy: Because what they...

[00:20:43] They're not gonna like what they find. 

[00:20:45] Eldar: And what is that? Well- Like who they actually are? 

[00:20:49] Toliy: Well, their cur- They, yeah, like who they actually are and what they've actually done. 

[00:20:54] Eldar: That's a hard thing to face. 

[00:20:56] Toliy: Yeah, I think, like, the more ignorant you are and the more of a bad life you, you have the more difficulty you have with facing, like, the truth.

[00:21:04] That, that's just like a natural phenomenon. So I think that you'll put you'll put all your chess pieces in a particular way where you never have to face it- Face them 

[00:21:14] Eldar: in it ... 

[00:21:14] Toliy: until you do, because there, there's no way to, like- Oh, 

[00:21:16] Eldar: to run ... 

[00:21:17] Toliy: to permanently run. 

[00:21:19] All right. So- You could, and, and you could fake it to others, you could lie to others, but you can't escape your own thoughts.

[00:21:26] Eldar: All right. How's the other side looks like? 

[00:21:28] Toliy: I think the other side- 

[00:21:32] Eldar: Give some optimistic, like, outlook- Yeah ... you know what I mean? Yeah, no. For the, for the people listening. What the fuck? No, 

[00:21:35] Toliy: yeah. The, the other side is, I, I think, is great. Like, the other side, the mo- the, the biggest thing it has is conscious choice.

[00:21:44] Eldar: Because the other one is obviously you don't have a choice. 

[00:21:46] Toliy: No. The other one is not operating from a, a, like, a level of ch- from a- Empowerment ... state of mind of choice. 

[00:21:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:21:51] Toliy: It's operating from pain relief. 

[00:21:54] So when you're operating from pain relief, you have no choice. When you're laying in the hospital bed, you have no choice, right?

[00:22:02] Eldar: Yeah. I mean- Yeah ... right? Yeah. 

[00:22:04] Toliy: You're just subject to, like- 

[00:22:06] Eldar: To, to the... Yeah ... 

[00:22:06] Toliy: whatever the medical plan is for you. 

[00:22:08] Eldar: Just give it to me. 

[00:22:08] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:22:09] Eldar: That's it. 

[00:22:10] Toliy: When you're sick and you're, do you, when, when, when you're sick and you ev- eventually go to the doctor and he prescribes you some shit do you, do you go, like, do you go out of the way to, to understand the medical explanation behind, like, what you're being given and what it does to you? And like, no, you just want your pain gone.

[00:22:26] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:27] Toliy: You're not, like, so skeptical, right? When you're in pain. 

[00:22:30] Eldar: No. 

[00:22:30] Toliy: But when you're in an ignorant place, you're the most skeptical person. 

[00:22:34] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:22:35] Toliy: Yeah, the, the most important thing that the other side has is the ability to choose, and that's, like, the best skill to have, is the ability to every day wake up and choose.

[00:22:47] I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna spend time with this, I'm gonna spend time with this person, I'm gonna go over that. Today I'm gonna do this, but maybe not tomorrow. That kind of life, where you actually have choice and you, and, like, that, that choice is, like, I think the freedom that people are looking for.

[00:23:07] And I think many people, they could think about this freedom, but they think about it purely from, like, a financial standpoint. You know, when they talk about financial freedom and when they talk about being your own boss or retiring early, right? Or, like, they're, they're trying to seek, I think, some level of this.

[00:23:24] Some under- they somewhat understand this, and this is what I think people u- like universally want, to, like, just do what they want, creatively express themselves, right?

[00:23:35] Eldar: What if the circumstances are already s- they're so deepened in their choices that they've made in life. Now they have responsibilities.

[00:23:42] Now they have a, a family to feed. Yeah. But they have a boss that's chewing their ass every day. You know what I mean? Like- 

[00:23:49] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[00:23:49] Eldar: what do they do? Like, how do they find those pockets of freedom that you're talking about? Well- Because, like, it's almost like their destiny's been written. So it's like, do you- Yeah

[00:23:57] do you, what do you recommend them? Like, hey, just, like, this one, just write this off, and then maybe try again next life? 

[00:24:03] Toliy: It could be. Yeah, it could be where this might be a tax write, write-off, this life, you know? This one. But- 

[00:24:09] Eldar: In hopes that you might reincarnate for, into a better one. 

[00:24:11] Toliy: Yeah, 

[00:24:11] Eldar: probably- And you won't shit the bed on the next, next round.

[00:24:13] Toliy: Yeah, I think next life, like, uh, probably a good thing would just be a, like a cactus or something, you know? 

[00:24:18] Eldar: Just to relax a little bit. 

[00:24:19] Toliy: Just to relax a little bit. Have you know, have some point, like a pointy, like, pricks on you, you 

[00:24:23] Eldar: know? Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:24] Toliy: So that you 

[00:24:24] Eldar: don't 

[00:24:24] Toliy: get attacked. Pay attention to the 

[00:24:25] Eldar: birds and 

[00:24:25] Toliy: flies.

[00:24:25] Yeah. Yeah, something where you just observe and you don't say anything, 'cause you've already said too much. 

[00:24:31] Eldar: Oh, 

[00:24:31] Toliy: shit. This, this lifetime, you know? Yeah, 

[00:24:33] Eldar: yeah. 

[00:24:33] You need a break. 

[00:24:34] Toliy: Yeah, so, like that, or I do think that, like, you can slowly chip away at changing some of the things that you have in your life, but it's gonna require a ton of patience and a ton of, um- Like a, a ton of effort to get a very low instant ROI on, on your investment 

[00:24:57] Eldar: Yeah, but you see like, y- yeah, sure.

[00:24:59] But like that's very hard to s- it's... I mean, the advice is very hard to follow. Even my cousin who's, say, 30 years old- 

[00:25:06] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[00:25:06] Eldar: right? Doesn't have family, doesn't have those types of responsibilities. Yeah. Just pretty much responsible for himself. 

[00:25:12] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:25:12] Eldar: Right? Sometimes he helps his mom. 

[00:25:14] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:25:14] Eldar: You know? He'll say, "Yo, I don't have any time, bro."

[00:25:17] Toliy: You have only but- Uh- you only have... hi- his situation is different, but like to me my, my question is like, what else are you gonna do? What other plans do you have that you're gonna go execute on? Like- Well, first we- ... if you know this and you believe this you have no- nothing else to do but this 

[00:25:35] Eldar: But how can I sit all day on my ass and do nothing?

[00:25:38] Toliy: The same way that you've been sitting on 

[00:25:39] Eldar: your ass- I wanted to do his accent. I couldn't do- 

[00:25:40] Toliy: Yeah, the, the the same way that, like- 

[00:25:42] Eldar: You've been doing nothing anyway. 

[00:25:43] Toliy: Yeah, you've been doing nothing anyway, right? Yeah. Everything that you've been so-called doing- Doing ... has brought you back- I'll let you hear

[00:25:48] to this place of how you feel, where you feel- Yes ... like you have nothing, right? 

[00:25:52] Eldar: Yes. 

[00:25:52] Toliy: M- may- may- maybe it's like a reversal. Like, you might actually have to do something to get something. 

[00:25:57] Eldar: Finally. 

[00:25:58] Toliy: Yeah. No, well, yeah, you might have to do nothing- 

[00:26:01] Eldar: Yeah, to get something ... 

[00:26:02] Toliy: yeah, ver- versus, you've been trying to do a lot- 

[00:26:04] Eldar: Yeah

[00:26:04] Toliy: and you've been getting nothing allegedly, right? 

[00:26:05] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:06] Toliy: Like, yeah, to me, it feels pe- 'Cause I 

[00:26:07] Eldar: think a lot of people have that rhetoric. 

[00:26:08] Toliy: Yeah, but that's the thing. Like, "I've tried 

[00:26:09] Eldar: everything." 

[00:26:10] Toliy: That's the thing. The people who have, who the people who, who, who, who talk like that- 

[00:26:15] ... 

[00:26:15] Toliy: They only talk like that out loud, but they don't actually believe it, which is why they're not willing to follow you.

[00:26:21] It's like, look, if you literally tried everything- 

[00:26:24] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:26:25] Toliy: and- Nothing worked ... and noth- noth- n- nothing works, and you're convinced of that- 

[00:26:29] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:26:29] Toliy: what's one more thing to try? 

[00:26:31] Eldar: Yeah, it's true. 

[00:26:32] Toliy: Who gives a fuck? Yeah. You've already been fucking up, right? 

[00:26:35] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:35] Toliy: Why don't you follow this person who's so convinced, right?

[00:26:38] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:26:38] Toliy: of, of how to live live life? 

[00:26:40] Eldar: And live a good life. 

[00:26:41] Toliy: Why would you not, like, follow that- 

[00:26:43] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:26:44] Toliy: if you've already tried everything? 

[00:26:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:26:47] Toliy: And you're still g- alive, right? You're not saying like, "Hey, I'm just gonna, kill myself." I'm still gonna live. 

[00:26:51] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:26:51] Toliy: So, if you're gonna still live, you might as well try it, no?

[00:26:56] What, like, what, what, what better things do you have to do with your time? 

[00:26:59] Mike: Yeah. Well, it's impossible to speak to that person for them to hear that. But that's 

[00:27:02] Eldar: because- No, but I 

[00:27:03] Toliy: think Toliy, 

[00:27:04] Eldar: Toliy has a good challenge, 

[00:27:05] Toliy: though. But that's, but, but, but- It's a good challenge ... that's only because, that's only because what they're actually saying out loud is not actually true.

[00:27:11] Is 

[00:27:11] Eldar: BS. Is BS. 

[00:27:12] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:27:12] Toliy: They're, they're lying. They're lying. Mm-hmm. They, they know for a fact that they haven't tried everything, and they know for a fact that they have a better solution than you, which is why they don't listen to you. 

[00:27:21] Mike: Yeah, 

[00:27:21] Eldar: but the thing, the, but- It's ultimately, you're talking about arrogance

[00:27:23] Mike: ul- ultimately, it's arrogance because, uh, that person is, is, feels like they tried it all based on who that person is and their character and their beliefs and what they can do and what they think is possible. But if you, you cannot have a conversation with the ego and try to bring logic in and explain to them like, "Hey, look, look at how you can live differently.

[00:27:45] You can be happy. You can have whatever you want," that person, that ego s- person that you're being faced with is not gonna hear anything, and that person is probably a lot of times behind the wheel. 

[00:27:56] Toliy: That, that's for sure. That's also why we can call that person out and, and like do our best to make it known that they're, they're liars.

[00:28:05] Yeah. Like, we're, we're, like the, uh, goal there, I don't think, is to communicate with that kind of person because they're, like it's very difficult to. But yeah, I think the only way is to call them out on what they're saying is not true. Yeah. You have not tried everything, so stop it. 

[00:28:20] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:28:23] This is true. I agree with you

[00:28:27] Toliy: So yeah, so you, you were asking about the other side- 

[00:28:30] Eldar: The pockets of freedom. Yeah. I was asking, like, how do you, how do you find some pockets for the individuals that kind of already like, you know- 

[00:28:38] Toliy: Yeah, I think the- ... at 

[00:28:39] Eldar: the end of it ... 

[00:28:40] Toliy: the n- the, the number one priority I, I think should be to, to rebuild your attention span Because with, well, y- yeah, but with, with, um, with the, uh, the ability to have an attention span, I think, like, with time that will grant you the ability to think long enough to make, Better 

[00:29:03] Eldar: thought patterns- Yeah

[00:29:04] better actions, better everything. 

[00:29:05] Toliy: Better, yeah, to make better decisions, to slowly chip away at actually contributing towards change. 

[00:29:13] Mike: How would, um, how would a person, uh, expand their attention span? Ooh, 

[00:29:18] Toliy: good 

[00:29:18] Mike: question. 

[00:29:19] Toliy: That's a good question. 

[00:29:20] Mike: A person who probably doesn't feel like they need to. 

[00:29:23] Toliy: Well, 

[00:29:23] Mike: look- 

[00:29:24] Eldar: Especially.

[00:29:24] In the first place. 

[00:29:25] Toliy: Yeah, anyone with, you know, like- 

[00:29:25] Eldar: Well, yeah, no, but it's Toliy making a com- that's the thing, I think that if Toliy's making a compelling case to the listeners- 

[00:29:31] ... 

[00:29:31] Eldar: Right, they almost have to ask this question very seriously. 

[00:29:34] Toliy: Mm-hmm. "

[00:29:34] Eldar: Hey, like, how do we do this?" Because, like, I have, let's just say Catherine was sitting here, she's constantly raising her hand saying, "I have ADHD," right?

[00:29:43] Yeah. Mm-hmm. So how do you come up with- 

[00:29:45] ADD. 

[00:29:45] Okay. We were downgraded. Yes. 

[00:29:47] No, it's always been ADD. 

[00:29:49] Okay. So ADD. 

[00:29:51] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:29:52] Eldar: Right? How do we actually combat this? Because, you know, they're raising their hand asking this. This is so important. 

[00:29:58] Mike: The first thing that comes to my mind is the value system, is the value.

[00:30:05] What people will find what they need to find for what they value, right? The attention span for what they like, what they're interested in. Yeah. You know, like, uh, and I think that's a big factor. I mean, that's the probably the big, big, big one because you're not gonna, like, um, you're not gonna find time for the things that obviously you don't feel valuable, so you have to be convinced of that, I guess.

[00:30:31] I'm not sure, like, help the person to realize that, to understand that. Yeah, you know? 

[00:30:38] Eldar: It's tricky because, uh, if you're gonna try to recommend activities for those types of people- ... it's almost always gonna fall on those things where it's like, "Ah, I don't really like that," right? Like, I don't know, for Catherine, like, if she likes shopping- 

[00:30:49] Mike: Mm-hmm

[00:30:50] Eldar: she can have her, the attention- 

[00:30:51] ... 

[00:30:51] Eldar: For shopping. 

[00:30:52] You know what I mean? So, like, if you say, "Oh, you might need to go walk in the nature and hike or something like that- Yeah ... and look at trees," like,

[00:30:59] Mike: No, it's, 

[00:30:59] Eldar: yeah ... that's not my thing. 

[00:31:00] Toliy: No, but that, that's why I was saying is that I think that in some of these breakthroughs I do think that there is a period of time that you'll, you almost have to, like, um, endure I think, which, which will involve some, like, not understanding why you're doing what you're doing or, like, like you, you have this, like, ignorance almost to, to you that you need to participate in until you can, uh, accept it and understand it and see the value that it has because it's like oftentimes, like- There's times where you could do something and you're like, and you have this negative attitude towards it.

[00:31:34] Like, "What the fuck am I doing this?" Or like, "Why am I doing this?" Or like this or that, right? And then you keep doing it and you're like, huh. You actually got to a point where you start to n- notice certain things that you actually like about it, how it makes you feel, right? All of us have done something and, right, the first time we could have a bad attitude, like, uh, towards it or a bad association.

[00:31:55] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:56] Toliy: And then we do it enough times and we actually grow to, to like it. 

[00:31:58] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:31:59] Toliy: Right? It's 

[00:31:59] Eldar: true. 

[00:32:00] Toliy: So how does that phenomenon happen? It happens through, like, the, the whole point is to un- understand, right? And I think that you have to, I think, put yourself into 

[00:32:11] Eldar: a 

[00:32:11] Toliy: situation. 

[00:32:11] Eldar: But again, in order to understand it...

[00:32:12] okay, so this is g- let me, let me try to get this thought out before I forget it. There's a phenomenon where you're saying that like do something long enough to then finally discover within it, uh, that you like something. 

[00:32:24] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:32:25] Eldar: And then there's another thing where it's like, hey, but you have to understand those details that actually make the thing that is good for you.

[00:32:35] In order to understand the thing that, you know, uh, makes you feel good in detail, you need the attention span. So it's like you're chasing the, your own tail in a way. That, y- yes, you are, but that's also because there are 

[00:32:50] Toliy: prerequisites to doing some of these things. And 

[00:32:53] Eldar: many people- Oh, okay.

[00:32:54] Wow ... 

[00:32:55] Toliy: many pe- well, like, 

[00:32:56] Eldar: one- Okay, I get it ... one 

[00:32:56] Toliy: basic one is 

[00:32:57] Eldar: that, like- I, I get it, I 

[00:32:58] Toliy: get it ... you need good sleep, for example. 

[00:32:59] Eldar: No, no, no. You know what? Like- I thought you were gonna say something else, and I thought it was gonna be on the level of punishment. You know what I mean? Where it's like to some degree, certain things that you're gonna have to do are gonna be, you're not gonna be happy with because you have to go through the bad attitude phase.

[00:33:13] Toliy: There, yeah which is like this disciplinary approach- 

[00:33:16] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:33:17] Toliy: of, yeah, of, of, of it. Yeah. You're ignorant person- Yeah ... and you're doing good things. Yeah. You're supposed to not like this- 

[00:33:23] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:33:24] Toliy: for example, right? 

[00:33:25] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:33:25] Toliy: Or you might do things, right? But you also, yeah, like, o- o- other, I think pre- prerequisites are, again, like you also need to be you need good sleep.

[00:33:34] You like, you need rest. You need energy, right? You need to eat somewhat healthy foods for like a good amount of time, so you know? You, um, you need these- 

[00:33:45] Eldar: Prerequisites, like 

[00:33:46] Toliy: you said. Yeah ... pre- yeah, yeah. Pr- pr- prerequisites to, to put yourself in a position where you can help, help yourself.

[00:33:52] But there's gonna be, yeah, there's gonna be a painful period about it, but like, what else are you gonna do? Like, you already have a painful life. Like- 

[00:34:00] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:34:00] Mike: what, what's the issue? Yeah, people, people will choose the pain that they know versus the pain they don't know too. 

[00:34:05] Eldar: That's a very good point too.

[00:34:07] Well- A lot of times we're just comfortable with the fact that, like, yeah, I know- Yeah ... my boss is gonna chew my ass, but like, I'm used to it already. I think, yeah, I think 

[00:34:13] Mike: what you said- 

[00:34:14] Eldar: That, that's the cope. That, that's the coping that- 

[00:34:16] Mike: But that's- ... that you've done to normalize it ... but that's, I think it's okay.

[00:34:18] I think like if we tie it back to what you're saying about the universe and the truth magnet and and the reincarnation, I think it's n- it's normal. Like, I think everybody has an opportunity in life to make a life that you would just, like a good life that you would have dis- discussed.

[00:34:34] And I think n- also nobody has the opportunity to make it. It's like in a, in a paradoxical way I'm saying it, where if you wanna make something out of it, you have a choice. If you don't wanna make something out of it, you have a choice. But it's, I, but I also feel like if there's this reincarnation thing, obviously I can't prove it just yet, but I think- But you're, 

[00:34:55] Eldar: you're on the way

[00:34:55] Mike: I'm on the way. But I think that maybe this life is not the life for you to crack it, but maybe you are getting closer to cracking it in the next one, you know? Because it's, there's like a, like a time and a place for- 

[00:35:09] Eldar: For it 

[00:35:09] Mike: all ... for everybody that they're gonna hatch. Like- I think without, like, immersion, complete immersion, you're not just gonna, like, um...

[00:35:20] You're not gonna go from one where you were to the other side. Either, like, through probably crazy pain, which will then force the immersion or... Oh, probably, yeah, just crazy pain that'll force the immersion, yeah. 

[00:35:36] Toliy: Yeah. Well, yeah, and I'm not saying that like, um, one, the, uh, this is for everybody to act on or for do, but I do think that like, yeah, I think immersion is a, is like a necessary part of this 'cause I think the, the main immersion here is the, um, the questioning of things, and if you don't question everything you're not immersed enough and you, um, you won't have the ability, I think, to, like, discover what you're trying to, uh, find.

[00:36:07] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:36:07] Toliy: Um. 

[00:36:09] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:36:10] Toliy: But I think- 

[00:36:12] Mike: But the thing is the p- people don't, Yeah, it's almost seems like there's, like, we have this conversation, uh, on different stuff, and I always feel like we talk about, like, there's something missing for that click or for whatever that moment where the person goes over to the other side, right?

[00:36:27] For that thing to, the, to happen where they understand and they start thinking. There's always that, like, secret ingredient or, like, we try to, like, I, at least I think about it like that. Like, we've discussed it, but it's like, it's a hard thing to do for, like, a... It just seems a very challenging thing to do and the coping mechanisms, they serve the purpose To, like relieve pain in a, in our like, in our like a, like a- 

[00:36:57] Eldar: Miserable existence

[00:36:58] No, 

[00:36:58] Mike: no, no. Like in the sense that our bodies are naturally like, uh, programmed, the way the brain works and all that stuff. The fight or flight. The fight or flight. Like it's primitive things, right? When you put your hand to a flame, you don't have to think to remove it. You feel pain and your body just naturally responds, right?

[00:37:15] Like a lot of these things are natural responses and based on maybe development of skills to think differently or to behave differently or to plan differently. Like instead of putting your hand in a fire, you think about it, what's gonna happen. Not in the straight fire sense, but in metaphorical things too, you know?

[00:37:32] But I think it's more of a development and education and like Ding

[00:37:40] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. I mean, like how, how long have we been live, Older? 40. 40, okay. I have not done not one task since the last podcast of 40 minutes straight without having ADD. Mm-hmm. For example. 

[00:37:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:37:56] Yeah. 

[00:37:57] Toliy: And like, I don't need to make any conscious, like, th- um, I'm not making any conscious decisions to focus right now, for example.

[00:38:04] Or to, um, think right now. I I just have the ability right now to do so. 

[00:38:09] Eldar: That's probably because you're destined to be Brother Toliy. 

[00:38:11] Toliy: Yeah, maybe. All right. Al- al- also I do- 

[00:38:15] Eldar: And I do think, I do think that, uh, this ability that you've been showing to be able to focus on this type of stuff is closely related to, like, what you do every day anyway.

[00:38:25] Like, you like to think, you like to analyze, you like to challenge. Like, all these things are kind of maybe in compilation. Uh, maybe you just don't, you're not given the chance to do it on a regular basis or long enough. 

[00:38:38] Toliy: No, but it's also, it's a- You know? Part of it is it, part of it is properly, I think, like finding yourself in the different activities that, that you do.

[00:38:46] Eldar: Because- Or finding this. 

[00:38:47] Toliy: Yeah, finding this in the d- like finding whatever's going on right now- 

[00:38:51] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:38:52] Toliy: in the different activities that you do, and having such a strong ties to it yourself- 

[00:38:57] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:38:58] Toliy: that again, this is what you have and this is what you can do. Ju- just as an example, which may, maybe you won't be shocked to it, right?

[00:39:06] But if you had to say in the last 30 days, right? Oh, n- not even, yeah, l- let's just bring it like 30, 30 days, right? Um-

[00:39:20] How many times would you say that I participated in, like, cooking food for, like, for you guys? Not just saying the last 30 days. 

[00:39:27] Mike: At least may- at least for o- once a week. Yeah, at least once. So, so yeah, maybe five, 

[00:39:31] Toliy: six. Okay, I have not, I have not cooked one meal for myself in the last 30 days.

[00:39:35] Mike: Uh-huh. 

[00:39:36] Toliy: Not one. Yeah. 

[00:39:37] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:39:37] Toliy: So would someone, like someone from the outside would say, like, "Hey, you like cooking." 

[00:39:41] For e- for example, right? 

[00:39:43] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:39:43] Toliy: And I can willfully at any time be summoned to do stuff for everybody. 

[00:39:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:39:47] Toliy: Right? And I enjoy it. Right? I do. 

[00:39:49] Eldar: For enjoying cooking for everyone- Right, right

[00:39:50] serving others. Yeah. 

[00:39:51] Toliy: Right. But I have not made not one meal for myself, for example. 

[00:39:55] Not one. Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:56] Eldar: So what do you, what do you attribute that to? 

[00:39:57] Toliy: So you can say that like, "Hey, he likes to cook," for example, it's some kind of association of something that you like that's part of that process that you do- Yeah

[00:40:07] that you can summon that makes it extremely enjoyable- Eff- effortless ... and ef- effortless for yourself. With 

[00:40:12] Eldar: an attention span that you like- Yeah ... and want. 

[00:40:14] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:40:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:40:15] Toliy: But for example, just to talk about that one thing I, I think that like- 

[00:40:20] Eldar: Listen, if you like to cook that much can we use you as like a workhorse and open a restaurant?

[00:40:24] You know what I'm saying? I mean, maybe, maybe the, the kicker is, uh, you also don't like to do it for money, so then that, that wouldn't work. 

[00:40:35] Toliy: Yeah. You know? But I'm just saying that like if you don't go that deep into it, like, let's just say like you'll never have a conversation around that, or you'll never like- That's true

[00:40:44] even think about that- That's right ... or like think about what's going on there. 

[00:40:46] Eldar: Yes. That's a good 

[00:40:47] Toliy: point. So that, that's what I'm saying about like, the questioning of everything and the questioning of what's going on I think can give you the opportunity. A- and I don't think that like- To, 

[00:40:56] Eldar: for a good life.

[00:40:56] Toliy: Yeah. I, like, like I don't think everyone has the opportunity because I think that, like, opportunity is something that, like you have to discover the opportunity, and then you have to actively, uh, believe- 

[00:41:09] Eldar: Convince, 

[00:41:09] Toliy: convince yourself of it. Yes. Convince yourself of it, yes. Yeah. I don't think everyone has the ability- 

[00:41:14] Eldar: Yeah

[00:41:14] Toliy: for a, for a good life. I don't think so. Because you have to yeah, you have to convince yourself that it's possible, and after you convince yourself that it's possible, you have to, um... W- well, it's gonna require you to put yourself in a very vul- uh, vulnerable state, right? And you have to be willing to be under that kind of microscope and gun for long enough to see some kind of tangible pro- progress, which will actually lead you to believe that you should stick with it.

[00:41:43] Yeah. And most people will not get to that point because there's too much to do too early on and not enough ROI in it. Yeah. And the ROI is in pain relief. That's instant, guaranteed pain relief- 

[00:41:55] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:41:55] Toliy: is the, the instant ROI, and when you're not getting that instant ROI, that rush you get from watching that, you know, UFC fight or that baseball game or that football game or hanging with the boys, right, or like this or that, to go work on yourself, to go like face these like m- like realities that you've built up and to, to, to change all this stuff, like who needs that?

[00:42:20] Eldar: So it's an uphill battle. 

[00:42:23] Toliy: I don't even know if it's uphill. 

[00:42:25] Eldar: It's down. 

[00:42:26] Toliy: It's 

[00:42:26] Eldar: tr- yeah, it's- It's tumbling down. 

[00:42:28] Toliy: Yeah, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh ... Like, it's, yeah, it's, uh ... If only it was uphill, 'cause you can make through uphill. You know? We're trying 

[00:42:37] Eldar: to- This is some anti-gravity bullshit. 

[00:42:38] Toliy: Yeah, the, yeah, yeah. You're going against, like, gravity.

[00:42:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:42:42] Toliy: And, like, because usually when you're doing this, you've collected so much, like

[00:42:51] Like so much BS for yourself, and you've subscribed to so much non- nonsense that to like go through the process- 

[00:42:59] Mike: Yeah ... 

[00:43:00] Toliy: of like- Decluttering it all ... ridding. Yeah, yeah, of decluttering and ridding yourself of this, holy shit,

[00:43:05] Mike: but it's also funny because you say anti-gravity, but the stuff that people do to get to where they are is actually anti-gravity.

[00:43:13] You know, like anti the rules or the laws of the universe, if you wanna call it that. Like doing the right thing, being honest, being all this, all that, being patient. It's actually like how you should be. But w- we going against that now, I have to like... What you're describing is going back that way. 

[00:43:28] Toliy: Yeah, which is why a super grueling and painful process is super deserving and necessary

[00:43:36] Eldar: I agree with you, man. I, I agree with you. Yeah. So- 

[00:43:41] Toliy: And that, that, and that's why also, like, when someone looks something up, everybody wants to find the fastest way to do something, right? 

[00:43:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:43:49] Toliy: No, no one sa- says like, "Hey slowest way to put together a couch" on Google. Yeah. Or like, "Slowest way to, to get jacked."

[00:43:59] The fastest way. 

[00:44:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:44:00] Toliy: For example, right? 

[00:44:01] Eldar: Yeah. It's always the fastest way. Yeah, you're right. Those keywords- All the biggest- The slowest keywords- Yes ... is not gonna rank. 

[00:44:08] Toliy: No. No. 

[00:44:10] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. It's all, it's all like five steps to get rich. Five steps to, you know- Yeah ... 10, 10, 10 

[00:44:16] Toliy: easy way- Quinn asks your income.

[00:44:17] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:44:17] Toliy: 10X, 10X. 

[00:44:18] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:44:19] Toliy: 100X. 

[00:44:20] Eldar: Yeah.

[00:44:24] There's a population obviously, and they're serving that population 

[00:44:27] Toliy: Yeah And it works Because the people, the, like it's a natural phenomenon. The people with the biggest de- deficits want to erase the most amount- Of debt ... of debt the, as fast as possible. That, that's why like the people who are in like the biggest holes, they want the largest, most grandiose solutions, and they're not willing to take the little like things.

[00:44:52] Someone with a lot of problems, you go tell them like, "Hey, why don't you start by like, um, removing like the, like the thorny weeds in your garde- uh, garden." And be like, "The fuck?" 

[00:45:01] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[00:45:03] Toliy: Yeah. They're, they're gonna tell you like, "Hey, these are the big problems I have, and you're telling me right now, you're telling me right now that this is what...

[00:45:11] You want me to do this simple little task? Are you stupid? Do you not hear me?" 

[00:45:16] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:45:16] Toliy: They're gonna tell you, "I'm in suffering. I'm in-" Because already 

[00:45:18] Eldar: arrogance is already 

[00:45:19] Toliy: baked in- Yeah ... 

[00:45:19] Eldar: into that. "

[00:45:20] Toliy: I'm in suffering and I'm in pain." 

[00:45:21] Eldar: Yeah. "

[00:45:22] Toliy: I have a giant fire to put out." 

[00:45:23] Eldar: Yeah. And here you 

[00:45:24] Toliy: are telling me, yeah "Here 

[00:45:25] Eldar: you are, 

[00:45:25] Toliy: this all-knowing per- person or this some, some guy who supposedly in the know."

[00:45:30] Eldar: Wax on, wax off. "

[00:45:31] Toliy: And, and you're telling me to do basic fucking tasks?" 

[00:45:33] Eldar: Yeah. "

[00:45:34] Toliy: You don't hear me, man." This is how it feels to be in 

[00:45:39] Eldar: that seat. Rightfully so, and those people should ch- Yeah ... they're, like you said, they're deservant of the misunderstanding that they feel if the right advice is given to them.

[00:45:50] Toliy: Yeah. They just feel that they're permanently not heard by those people. But the people out there that are marketing the 100X- 

[00:45:58] Eldar: Oh, 

[00:45:58] Toliy: fuck it. Yeah ... they know who they're marketing to. They know that they can't be marketing, let's 0.25X. Yeah. 

[00:46:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:46:05] Toliy: They know that they have to give, they have to sell you the biggest, like the grand prize.

[00:46:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:46:10] Toliy: What's the jackpot? Not the minimum win. 

[00:46:15] Eldar: Yeah. 

[00:46:15] Toliy: Because the, like you need to erase this deficit, otherwise it's not even worth starting. 

[00:46:21] Eldar: And because 

[00:46:22] Toliy: many people have that kind of attitude, they have no chance to find the- Yeah ... right solutions for themselves. 

[00:46:27] Mike: Well, they're, yeah, of course.

[00:46:29] They're speaking to the person who's gonna be entertained by that, by that massive whatever, 100X anything. They're not actually looking to be heard by the person who can think and use logic. They're, they're actually speaking to the ego, which is a greedy little pig, you know? 

[00:46:46] Eldar: That's all we have to praise them.

[00:46:46] What, what language, the small amount of listeners that we do have. 

[00:46:50] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:46:51] Eldar: If you, yeah, if you've been sticking with us for quite some time, and I, I mean, I see the numbers. It's not crazy, but it's good. What if you've been listening- Tol- Toliy gives... Your, your hat, Toliy's hat goes out to you. 

[00:47:01] Mike: What if you've been listening but you didn't hear anything?

[00:47:05] Eldar: So what you been doing? Oh my God, you're talking about those people. Or were you... If you've been listening, you've been plotting. Yeah. That's another one. 

[00:47:15] Mike: Mm. 

[00:47:16] Eldar: Oh, man. Listen. 

[00:47:18] Toliy: Yeah, I think to when I started to, to think about all this stuff, like yeah, to, to me it's like you, you asked me the question before or s- someone asked I think, maybe Mike or someone, how do you get the attention span, that's what I'm trying to figure out now. 

[00:47:31] Mike: No, I think- Is, is like- I think the more and more I think about it, I think you should sign up for every single 100X everything, and just get as much, eat as much shit as possible as fast as possible, you know? Expedite the process. So maybe like I don't know- But if you 

[00:47:44] Eldar: believe in that.

[00:47:44] But like if, if you are in the place where he's at and he doesn't actually believe in that- 

[00:47:48] Mike: Oh. Okay ... 

[00:47:48] Eldar: you can't really, you can't really recommend that. 

[00:47:49] Mike: No, no, no, no, no. But I still recommend. I think- I don't think 

[00:47:53] Eldar: you can recommend that to Catherine either. 

[00:47:55] Mike: No. 

[00:47:55] Eldar: Because of what she knows- I don't think so ... and how she knows it now.

[00:47:57] Mike: No. Nobody, nobody who's, has the ability to think or has- 

[00:48:01] Eldar: Or who's, or at least 

[00:48:02] Mike: has consciously thought- ... discovered 

[00:48:03] Eldar: this Pandora 

[00:48:04] Mike: box- Yes ... can, they cannot- 

[00:48:06] Eldar: Put the worms back in the 

[00:48:07] Mike: can ... you cannot like, uh, forcibly make them suffer- 

[00:48:11] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[00:48:11] Mike: at an expedite way. But essentially, for the people who are not thinking about this kind of stuff, which I'm not sure how many you know, h- how the numbers are with that.

[00:48:19] But I think it's, yeah, more suffering is like a doctor's or doctor's recommendations, you know? More, more suffering will maybe lead you to f- to start questioning stuff. 

[00:48:30] Eldar: All right, so what, what advice would you give to Toliy then? Okay, we know, we, we always give that advice, Mike, to these people. 

[00:48:35] More suffering, for sure.

[00:48:35] The ones that are not listening, and it is what it is. But what about for Toliy? For Toliy Bear? Yeah. Our brother, brother Toliy. He, he's asking, yeah, "How do, how do I work on my attention span, and how do I actually buy in and actually lock in and have, and cure myself from this deficit that I have?" What do you recommend 

[00:48:52] Mike: for him?

[00:48:53] Well, I think, like, uh, if we talk about attention span, right? Like, attention span is you're willingly giving your attention to things, right? And we all have many things. So I think it's important to evaluate that list of things that we think are important, and see what purpose they serve for us, if they serve a purpose as far as coping.

[00:49:12] So I mean, yeah, obviously it's more talking about it, more analyzing it. 

[00:49:16] Eldar: Raising awareness. 

[00:49:17] Mike: Raising awareness, and, uh, you know, sharing it because we're, many times I think we can be convinced about what something, what kind of role something is playing in our lives. Mm-hmm. And we could be wrong about that

[00:49:34] So I think also, um Yeah, seeing what, seeing where you invest your time You know, who's taking your attention span? If something's taking your suspensions-- attention span against your will, that's probably a, a good sign of something's up. If you don't know consciously that, you know, it's happening, I guess

[00:50:09] Eldar: So process of elimination? 

[00:50:11] Mike: Yeah, probably process of elimination, yeah By identifying things that don't serve you? And, and first identification, identification of the things- And I think that's what you started, right, Toliy? 

[00:50:19] Toliy: Yeah. That, yeah, that to me is where, again, all of this started and like- You, and 

[00:50:24] Eldar: you think that just eliminating certain things will give you the attention to the towards, like does it just automatically forces you or your attention automatically goes towards things that are, need your attention that you want to do?

[00:50:36] Or will it get hijacked by something else that's distracting? Toliy, I 

[00:50:39] Toliy: think it'll get unless you make the right choices to do certain right things, yeah, I do think that it'll get just hi- hijacked into other things. So 

[00:50:49] Eldar: what do 

[00:50:49] Toliy: you 

[00:50:49] Eldar: say to that, Mike? I, uh- Where it's like, okay, cool, like I'm, I'm done with Watching TV or playing video games- Mm-hmm

[00:50:56] or going out with, partying with my friends, right? Yeah. Like- Yeah ... okay, those things were, you know- 

[00:51:01] Mike: Mm-hmm ... 

[00:51:01] Eldar: kind of helping me, but they were also bloodsuckers, you know? 

[00:51:04] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[00:51:04] Eldar: You got rid of those. Now you're sitting on your ass. 

[00:51:07] Now next thing you know- Well, yeah ... you realize you find yourself doing some other stupid shit- Mm-hmm

[00:51:11] that's not necessarily serving you. 

[00:51:12] Mike: Yeah, no, I agree. What do you say to that? I agree. Yeah, it definitely could happen to, like that. But I think during the process, if you start thinking about the things to eliminate, you're gonna start, you know, maybe more using your brain, using your thinking. You start to think more, and you'll evaluate more before you engage in certain things.

[00:51:31] So I think in a way, like, you know, jump-starting your mind to think about those kind of things in that, in those areas will help you to then, next step is once you start figuring out what you wanna eliminate, you also then wanna be careful and, and be conscious of how you engage in things. And then if you get to the point you wanna reengage in new things or go back to old things, you're gonna be more conscious about it naturally.

[00:51:54] I think also part of the elimination process helps develop, like, uh, now you can't un-know that. Now you- Un-know what? Now you can't, like, um, un-know what you understood. Like, hey- 

[00:52:06] Eldar: About the process? 

[00:52:06] Mike: About, no, about the things that are not serving you. 

[00:52:09] You know? And yeah, you could probably trick yourself in a sense and get into some things.

[00:52:13] Like, oh, you quit playing WoW and now you start playing CS. Like, obviously the same thing. Or you started playing basketball more, right? To like or you started gambling more, right? Like, whatever you do, you could definitely do something like that. But if you really think about the elimination process, and you'll have a lot of more free time to really think about once you start eliminating things, I think you'll have a lot more free time to think about how you're engaging in stuff and why you're engaging in those things, and how you'd like to engage in them.

[00:52:45] It just, it'll just promote thinking. And then potentially you may wanna start adding things back, and you're gonna be thinking about- 

[00:52:53] Eldar: More mindful in the way you engage ... more mindful about it, yeah. So then you're trying to find the balance in certain things that you are r- maybe reengaging in again- Mm-hmm

[00:53:00] but finding the balance in it. 

[00:53:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:53:02] Eldar: Versus it's completely taken over your life. 

[00:53:04] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:53:04] Toliy: For, yeah, for, for me, it's definitely thinking about the things to re- remove and putting myself in positions when I can ac- when I can actually, like, think about things pro- properly, use my mind. Um, and then, One, one thing that I do is I, I remember I have the ability to, to remember the things that that, like, previously or currently make me happy.

[00:53:29] And I'm able to remember that, like, hey, that, that period of time was, like, good. You felt good. Yeah. Like, you did this good. You, you were able to do this. You 

[00:53:37] Mike: were able to- I can, I have, I have an, I have an example- Yes ... that, like, uh- Oh, go ahead ... maybe we're talking about, but that came to my mind.

[00:53:44] A few years ago, Toliy got rid of his smartphone for a very specific reason. Mm-hmm. Right? And then he reengaged the smartphone, right? But obviously we didn't have... I, I mean, we didn't have a conversation about it. I don't know how he's engaging with it now, but is it serving him better or worse, the same, or is he still- Well, 

[00:53:59] Eldar: it would definitely raise awareness, I remember that.

[00:54:01] Mike: Yeah. Like, that's an example of, like, you know, he re- he... Obviously, the awareness got raised, like, yo, this is... you're watching five different things at once, you're completely fried. Yeah. So he got rid of the phone. Yeah. You know, he went to, like, a dummy phone, and then with time he went back to a s- like, a- To a smartphone now.

[00:54:19] So yeah, I'm not sure how that, like, uh, how that evolution, how that whole process worked, if it was good and how he feels about it now, but- 

[00:54:27] Eldar: What's changed and 

[00:54:28] Mike: how 

[00:54:28] Eldar: you evolved ... 

[00:54:29] Mike: yeah. How, like, has he noticed something throughout that? Because we didn't talk, like, we didn't have a conversation, but it just came to mind.

[00:54:36] Do you remember that? 

[00:54:37] Toliy: I definitely remember that, yeah. And I definitely remember, like, a portion of, like, yeah, having, uh, like, you know, how hard that was to, to do that, and then it became, like- Very 

[00:54:44] Eldar: easy ... 

[00:54:45] Toliy: and then it became easy again. Because again, it's, it's all moment to moment based, and it's all attitude based, and it's all about understanding what's going on, and it's all about understanding how something is helping you.

[00:54:57] And when you resist things like that, you just don't believe and you don't understand how this is gonna help you until you give it enough time where, like, it's guaranteed that particip- Like, that to me is, like, part of, like, the, uh, like, the, the, there, there's a portion of, like, a, like a discipline of, like, a trusting of the process, if you wanna call it that, right?

[00:55:17] Where it's like you can't continuously do good things and then, like, not get to that point where you're able to extract good from them. It's gonna happen. But just most people give up or most people, like, uh, don't wanna s- um, stick with it to the po- like, until they get to a point where they actually understand it.

[00:55:38] The 

[00:55:38] Eldar: break. 

[00:55:38] Toliy: And they get that break, and they can connect the dots and be like, "Wow, this is actually contributing towards me having choice. This is actually contributing towards me feeling good." But, 

[00:55:48] Eldar: and- You start connecting the dots and the correlation- 

[00:55:51] Toliy: Yes ... of those things And then that's where doing those things in particular ways become effortless, right?

[00:55:57] Like the different things that you pay attention to that are not difficult for you to, like, do. Um, but it's just lots of times you don't understand why you're doing these things or what you're actually extracting and what you're actually getting because you're clouded by this complete decision-making process that stems out of pain and suffering, and it's very difficult To, 

[00:56:20] Eldar: to some 

[00:56:20] Toliy: kind 

[00:56:20] Eldar: of- Well, to some degree, yeah, to some degree you have to kill one specific part of yourself.

[00:56:24] Your s- some, some level of your identity has to die out, the old one- Yeah ... the bad attitude one, the pessimistic one- Yeah ... in order to give way to the new one who's able to correlate those things and to say, "Oh, I actually do have, I might have some power here." 

[00:56:37] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:56:38] Eldar: And then leaning, lea- start leaning into it more and more because you see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[00:56:44] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:56:44] Eldar: But without first killing off the other one, yeah, like you said, a lot of people would just give up- 

[00:56:50] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[00:56:50] Eldar: premature. 

[00:56:51] Toliy: Yeah. And yeah, and for, for me at least, again, is that, like, there was a point where I developed what I felt like were really good and productive hab- habits towards putting me in positions where I can, have choice and creatively think and do what I wanna do, and those things included, yeah, like eating better, exercising reg- reg- regularly sleeping well having no problems.

[00:57:12] I mean, I, I, like I still s- sleep now and I don't have any problems falling asleep, but I definitely have not been in, like, like an early riser and, like, a- as little of a morning person. The, the, this is like the f- my first, like, full week back of, like, waking up super early and having that, like, um, peaceful morning to then not, you know, try not to have a chaotic day or try to start the day, like start with chaos and just continue with chaos.

[00:57:37] To, um, to do that, and I'm slowly reintroducing tho- those habits and th- those things I was doing that I thought was contributing towards me changing how I go about things. But a certain, like there, there became a certain point where I put myself back into like the, um, the, uh, the, uh, high suffering, high pain loop, where then all I need to do is just relieve pain and suffering.

[00:58:02] Just now I re- I recognize that that is actually going on. And, Yeah, now, now, now I'm trying to slowly reclaim that, re- re- reclaim where, where I was and then to evolve it better this time around and extend it for longer and longer and- 

[00:58:21] Eldar: How did you become aware of it now, now that it's been going on for a couple of weeks, right?

[00:58:25] Or months. 

[00:58:26] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:58:27] Eldar: Uh, how did you actually come, become aware and finally have the push to actually do something about it? What's... How does that look? Like, why is it, why is there a ramp time, right? Because that's what I'm talking about. 

[00:58:38] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:58:39] Eldar: There's always a ramp time. We know in the back of our heads "Oh, I should be doing that."

[00:58:44] Remember I've been, I was asking you, like, "Yo, what's up with you? Are you allowed bread?" Yeah. That was the joke, right? Yeah. Like, are you allowed carbs? 

[00:58:49] Toliy: Yeah. 

[00:58:50] Eldar: You know, and you kinda like, "No, I'm, I'm not doing that yet, right now." Yeah. I'm like, there's a slow ramp time that you have to get to. W- when does it finally go, "Okay, now is the time"?

[00:58:59] Toliy: Yeah. It's, it that process is funny because that, like, I don't think it's that, like, conscious decision, but it's, like, to, it it's just, like, a a long enough it's a long enough period of making good enough decisions- 

[00:59:14] ... 

[00:59:14] Toliy: That build up the, uh, strength to face yourself against that one bad decision.

[00:59:20] And once you get that one victory and then you can save up again to get that s- second victory and third victory, and before you know it, you no longer really need this, like, defense mech- mechanism that, that you do, or this, like, pur- like, self-purging that, like, you need. But what you need early on is that there's gonna, there's gonna be an unre- a, um, a, uh, like, um, a very conniving, like, disgusting piece of shit person of yourself that's going to convince you that you can't do what you're, like, desiring to, like, do.

[00:59:52] And you need enough, enough ammo to beat that person enough times to no longer ha- to to then put yourself in a position where you no longer have to face that person. 

[01:00:06] Eldar: But- Okay. Yeah, but that, it, this all sounds nice and dandy in theory, but, like- That conversation and that, like, self negative self-talk exists, how much grace, how, how important is it to have grace in this whole process?

[01:00:19] To give yourself some leeway to say, "You know what? Okay, like, yeah, I fell off a little bit. I'll get back on it- 

[01:00:25] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[01:00:25] Eldar: with some due time." 

[01:00:26] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:00:27] Eldar: You know, and not create this monster that you're trying to describe. 

[01:00:31] Toliy: No, 

[01:00:31] Eldar: no, I'm talk- Saying that that other side is like, you know, you're trying 

[01:00:33] Toliy: to- Well, no, I'm not talking about, like, af- like now, yeah.

[01:00:35] Now, like, yeah, like I, I don't ne- necessarily need to do exactly that now is what I'm saying. No, but what I'm saying that people who think that they can't do something or that, like, they like, um, um, like, "This is too much." Like, how do you change this whole diet, or how do you change that? Like, you definitely cannot look at it in that kind of way.

[01:00:53] It's just impossible, I'm saying. But what you do need to do is that in those early stages of you making whatever change you want to make, there's going to be, like, a, a very powerful force of yourself that you're going to have to be, y- that you're gonna be in battle with. And your only shot to win is to prepare, to, like, know that, like, this is what's gonna happen, and that you need enough ammo to go thr- to, like, withstand it.

[01:01:22] To withstand it. And if you do that enough of, enough small times, well, then you can win. That the that's what I'm saying. It's like the there, there was a, a, a time, including like right now, where if you told me to like, "Hey," like, "you have to f- like fast tomorrow." I'm like, "Hell no." This is it's not doable.

[01:01:45] I can't. Like, I just can't. Yeah. But then there was also a time not too long ago where like you tell me that, I'm, "No problem. Okay." 

[01:01:54] Eldar: I did a sardine, sardine, uh, fast- 

[01:01:57] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[01:01:57] Eldar: not long ago. 

[01:01:57] Toliy: You know? Like no problem. 

[01:01:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:01:59] Toliy: You know? I, I know right now that both those types of mindsets exist within the same person.

[01:02:07] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:02:08] Toliy: Both those realities are actually possible and are actually real. 

[01:02:12] Okay? But I also know to get to that mindset of having it be no problem, right? 

[01:02:17] And something that is like can be done with like a flick of a wrist I know that there's there's like a level of ignorance that I have to break early on that is very painful and that require, that will like, like I'll endure a bunch of suffering, but I've done it before and I know that like it's coming and I know that I can face it, I know that I can do it, and I know that I can get back on.

[01:02:40] Mike: Go ahead. Uh, so why, why did like, uh, why did it stop in the first place? So why like the i- ignorance build back up or build up? How did it like go and then what changed? 

[01:02:54] Toliy: Yeah it happened well I, I, I think it always happens through poor decision-making that like decisions that were made through like non-conscious thinking that built up over time and that then gen- created suffering that you subscribe to, that you're no longer conscious to, and then now you just naturally need pain relief.

[01:03:23] Eldar: Which you did not accommodate for or account for when creating the original plan. 

[01:03:28] Toliy: Not that you did not like account for, it's that you don't have enough- Did you give yourself enough 

[01:03:33] Eldar: grace- 

[01:03:33] Toliy: You don't have... No ... 

[01:03:34] Eldar: within that plan? 

[01:03:35] Toliy: Well, well, no, it's not even that. It's just that like you didn't have, you, y- like-

[01:03:42] Part, throughout that, that process, you almost need a certain level of arrogance to let your guard down, to, like, not focus and not think enough. You thought at some point that it's okay to stop thinking. 

[01:03:56] Eldar: In this process? 

[01:03:57] Toliy: It, i- yeah, like, like, yeah, during your decision-making. Okay. Because I also know that when I, like, really put my analytical hat on or when I really think, I know that I can do, like, exactly what I wanna do.

[01:04:10] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:04:10] Toliy: I just don't have the ability, obviously, to summon that every single time, obviously, and to do that every single time, nor, nor do I think a- anyone, like, exactly does, right? But it's just like it's a bunch of small decisions that lead you back to a certain place. But I'm not, like, I'm not like, um, like, I'm not, like, angry about it or, like, no, I'm not, like, like, I'm not viewing it that kinda way and I'm not, like, uh, like- 

[01:04:37] Eldar: You're not judging yourself too much.

[01:04:38] Toliy: B- yes. And before for example, when I was lose, uh, losing weight and I first started, I was absolutely, like, a bad attitude, like, terrified of the process. Like, it was just like, it was bad. I did not believe, like, all that. Now, when I think about it and I, like, I'm summoned to, like, start to how do I get myself back and how to do all that stuff back, like, I don't have that same type of, like, like, fear.

[01:05:03] Mm-hmm. Because I also have a strong imagination. I, and I remember what that was like, and I remember that process. Mm-hmm. And I, like, Yeah, it doesn't sound that bad anymore to, to me. 

[01:05:12] Eldar: You're able to do preventative care. 

[01:05:15] Toliy: Well, I can do preventative care once I'm already in it. Mm-hmm. But also, it's like, now that I've, I've had that before, and now w- I am where I am now, I think as I can get, as I can go over the hump and, you know, break through and start again I think I will nat- nat naturally cherish it more.

[01:05:33] Because I will like feel the feeling that I had before again, and it'll be like a, um... Like when I first started to, to like feel better for example, I never remembered feeling that good. Mm. Like I didn't have that me- memory of feeling that good- You've never felt that good ... because it was just feeling bad for so long.

[01:05:51] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:05:52] Toliy: So now I have the memory actually now- 

[01:05:54] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:05:54] Toliy: of feeling good. And you know it's possible, yeah. I remember it. I know the, yeah, I like, like I could actually remember it, and I can use my imagination to actually even feel it. 

[01:06:02] Eldar: Tap into 

[01:06:02] Toliy: it. You know? 

[01:06:03] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:03] Toliy: So now I think when I, when I go in there the second time around I think that I will, yeah, like- Groceries

[01:06:10] cherish it more and be more like appreciative and be more I'll be happy to be back,

[01:06:15] Eldar: hmm. Okay. 

[01:06:18] Toliy: Yeah, and I feel like, yeah, I'm definitely not, I'm still not eating like good right now, but like I already know that like the, like the wheels are like in motion. I'm, I'm waking up early every day.

[01:06:29] Eldar: Do you- I'm going to bed ... you ramping? 

[01:06:31] Toliy: Yeah, I stopped playing like video games really. Yeah, yeah. Like I'm going to bed on time. I'm waking up. I'm not tired. Like I, I get enough sleep. 

[01:06:38] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:06:39] Toliy: My morning is super slow still. You're 

[01:06:40] Eldar: working on your back? 

[01:06:41] Toliy: Um, yeah, I'm doing the, like the, uh- 

[01:06:43] Eldar: The humble neck

[01:06:44] Toliy: the hu- the humble neck stuff. I want, I'm gonna go to the gym tomorrow 

[01:06:48] Eldar: Okay ... 

[01:06:49] Toliy: morning 

[01:06:49] Eldar: Yeah 

[01:06:50] Toliy: And I know I'll be back. Like, I'm not like, uh- Yeah, you're 

[01:06:53] Eldar: not, you're not stressing about 

[01:06:54] Toliy: it ... I'm not stressing about that. That's good. No what I am trying to, again, like the, uh, the, um, the very interesting point to me is that like, I recognize that I have a very low attention span for certain things.

[01:07:08] Eldar: Well, obviously. 

[01:07:08] Toliy: Yeah. And I, and I like, I have a desire to regain my, my attention span. And I think that like,

[01:07:17] Eldar: attention- Re- why do you say regain? Is it because you had attention span before and it, it was gone? Um, maybe, maybe a- I think the type of attention- Yeah ... I think the type of attention span that you're trying to get you never had.

[01:07:25] Toliy: But yeah, yeah, I probably never consciously had, yeah. 

[01:07:28] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:28] Toliy: Yeah. Consciously I probably- 

[01:07:30] Eldar: Correct ... 

[01:07:30] Toliy: never had. Yeah. 

[01:07:31] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:31] Toliy: So yeah, like yeah- Let's 

[01:07:32] Eldar: play video games- ... let me rephrase it ... until 4:00 in the morning. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Every, every little kid has that attention span. 

[01:07:38] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. I'd like to have the attention span to do what I want to like do, and to have that freedom of like choice.

[01:07:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:07:45] Toliy: How I'm going to get that kind of attention span, like yeah, I don't exactly know like the step-by-step way of what's gonna happen. I, I mean, I could definitely share once I'm, you know, what like if I see progress on it. Um, but I do believe that it's like, um, the attention span I do think is like a, um, muscle, that if you ex- exercise it, I think it'll get stronger and your attention span will get better.

[01:08:08] Eldar: Mm. 

[01:08:08] Toliy: And your freedom of choice will get better in that kind of way. As long as- 

[01:08:12] Eldar: And same way if you- Yes, as long as- ... niggle- Yeah, I think as long as you connect the association between knowing that attention span is clearly connected and correlated towards your happiness, right? 

[01:08:22] Toliy: That, that- And the outcomes

[01:08:23] you don't have to know that that, that, that is a cr- a requirement to grow attention span. 

[01:08:27] Eldar: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:08:27] Toliy: It's a requirement- Yeah ... to be able to correlate it. 

[01:08:31] Eldar: Yeah. '

[01:08:31] Toliy: Cause you can't grow it without having the correlation- There you go. So I think- ... of, of, of the happiness- Yeah ... of the, um- 

[01:08:37] Eldar: The outcomes ... 

[01:08:37] Toliy: the good feelings.

[01:08:38] Eldar: Outcomes. 

[01:08:38] Toliy: Yeah. So, yeah, I do know that like, yeah, like, the, phone is definitely a, a huge catalyst of ADHD, of like scrolling and of doing all this stuff, and you know, they already call it now doom scrolling. 

[01:08:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:08:53] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. You're literally like, it's like a doom, yeah. Like you're, yeah. Um, um- 

[01:08:58] Eldar: You just gave me the news. Remember you said, "Yo, yesterday if you were in New York City area- Yeah ... it's like s- you smoke 10 cigarettes." 

[01:09:05] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:05] Eldar: I'm like, "Bro." What's 10 cigarettes, right, Mike? When we used to do fucking two packs in- That's in 

[01:09:10] Mike: half an hour at the- 

[01:09:11] Eldar: In the web station- ... gas station

[01:09:11] playing Counter-Strike. 

[01:09:12] Mike: Yeah. So what? Yeah. So, um, but I think, like my thought is in order to like, uh, adopt this- hmm, way of thinking and a way of operating, it's like a, it always comes back to a value system. And I think in order to value something, you have to understand why you value it and why it's important to you, right?

[01:09:35] Toliy: But I don't think that you 

[01:09:35] Eldar: can- I'm not sure- 

[01:09:36] Toliy: Yeah, like, 

[01:09:36] Eldar: I- Let me tr- Yeah, hold on. Okay. I'm not... Yeah, the way you phrased it, Mike, um, like a, it's a, like a, the system or like a way of life. 

[01:09:44] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:09:44] Eldar: I don't think it's that at all. Yeah. That's what you were gonna push back on too? 

[01:09:48] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:09:48] Eldar: Yeah, no, I think it's like, it's the way things are.

[01:09:51] Yeah. 

[01:09:51] Toliy: No- Mm-hmm ... no one has this, like, they choose to have a value, like, sy- sy- Yeah ... system. Like, their, their value system is just like a, uh, result of their understanding. No, no, 

[01:10:00] Mike: but I 

[01:10:00] Eldar: think- 

[01:10:00] Mike: Yeah ... it's important mm, or maybe- 

[01:10:02] Eldar: Like, you can't say like, "Now I value attention span, 

[01:10:04] Mike: therefore I'm 

[01:10:04] Eldar: gonna go read a book."

[01:10:04] No, no, no, I'm not saying that you... But 

[01:10:05] Mike: no. Yeah. But you have to understand why you value it. If you don't understand why it's important to you, and you trade it- So the thing is like- ... for something else, then why, wh- then it means it's not, it's not valuable to 

[01:10:13] Toliy: you. The, 

[01:10:13] Mike: the 

[01:10:14] Toliy: va- I think the valuing is just an observation that I think someone else can have of your actions- Uh-huh

[01:10:19] of like, oh, like, he values, for example, like, I don't know, he values, I don't know, let's just say like self-respect, therefore he does actions of self-respect. And someone else can make the observation that like- 

[01:10:30] Mike: Yeah ... 

[01:10:30] Toliy: this is what that person values, and maybe he doesn't value, like... Or like, you can't just like throw money at them and they, like, operate in that kind of way, 'cause they don't value that kind of thing is- Yeah, I feel 

[01:10:40] Eldar: like, like attention span specifically, like paying attention, being ability to zoom in in the moment, is already has value baked in, in it.

[01:10:49] You know what I mean? So there's no, like, value proposition there where it's like, "Oh, today I'm gonna pay attention because of this," because there's like value there. 

[01:10:55] Toliy: That's also why- No, but my- ... if you sit anybody down and you say, "Good things," they're gonna be like, "Well, yeah, I want that." 

[01:11:00] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:11:00] Toliy: They, uh, like, no one's gonna say like, "No, I don't want that."

[01:11:03] Yeah. 

[01:11:03] Eldar: But in order to- You know ... to operate that way, you have to understand the importance of it. No. No, you don't. No, I think that you have to just understand it. 

[01:11:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:11:11] Eldar: What everything he just described- 

[01:11:13] Mike: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:11:13] Eldar: is like, yo, there's crazy amount of benefits baked in in attention span. And the reason why it's so beneficial, I mean, it feels good, right?

[01:11:21] It makes us happy. 

[01:11:22] Mike: Yeah, but the 

[01:11:23] Eldar: thing is- Therefore, if you 

[01:11:24] Mike: use it- ... that's the person who's behind the wheel right now, right? 

[01:11:26] Eldar: Well, no, I think that's reason. I think that's like a universal object- Yeah ... objective truth about us as humans. That is, 

[01:11:31] Mike: but the person has opportunity to tap into it or not, right?

[01:11:36] Eldar: Well, yeah, but you trying to attach a, an, a value system around it 

[01:11:40] Mike: Well, because I think y- you tap into something because you have a reason to do it, not just because- 

[01:11:45] Eldar: No, no, no. That's the problem 

[01:11:47] Mike: It's 

[01:11:47] Eldar: not? No, no, no. I think that you should be tapping into it because it's the truth. It's not because, like, you now value it.

[01:11:53] You know what I mean? Like, I think that you... I think, like, originally what Toliy even said, like, we are, like, the universe is, is already set up in such a way where it's like, it's gonna force you, quote unquote force you, towards the truth whether you like it or not Mm-hmm So if you're not aligned with the truth, guess what?

[01:12:08] You're gonna feel bad 

[01:12:10] If you align with the truth, you will feel good. Attention span and ability to focus and be in the moment is part of that thing where it's if you're aligning with it, it'll feel good naturally, objectively 

[01:12:21] Mike: Yeah 

[01:12:22] Eldar: Me and you don't have to agree on the fact like, "Oh, we should value that."

[01:12:25] That thing, that attention span thing, doesn't give a fuck about you- 

[01:12:30] Mike: I know that. I know, I know, I know what you're saying, but I feel like the, again- 

[01:12:33] Eldar: Like it 

[01:12:33] Mike: just is ... the way I maybe I'm describing is wrong, but I know what you're saying and I agree with you, but to me it seems like- I don't think you have to 

[01:12:41] Eldar: make a choice in the matter, bro

[01:12:42] Mike: I agree. Yeah. But in order to get to the point where you don't have to make a choice in the matter, is, is that like a thing or no? 

[01:12:47] Eldar: You- that's faking it. Then that means you don't understand it. 

[01:12:51] Mike: No, 

[01:12:51] Eldar: but- If you put va- I think if you put value on it, this, this thing doesn't require value to be put on it. It's the- So, is it- It's the most valuable.

[01:13:00] Mike: Yes. I know. But is it... So then what is the problem then? Why, why is it- 

[01:13:05] Eldar: The problem is we don't understand it. We don't understand what everything that's been described. So 

[01:13:07] Mike: what's required then? More knowledge? 

[01:13:09] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:13:09] Mike: Yeah, that's more... That's why I'm, that's what I'm trying to say is- 

[01:13:12] Eldar: But you see, like me and you don't have to agree on that because knowledge is already baked in.

[01:13:15] You know that knowledge is good, right? 

[01:13:17] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:13:17] Eldar: I know that it's good. We don't have to sit here and say like, "Is that valuable or it's not valuable?" You know what I mean? Yeah. There's no process to that. It just is. Therefore, like you can't just tell people, advise people, "Hey guys, listeners, start valuing attention span."

[01:13:32] Mike: No, but I think you, you don't have to make the, you don't have to make the case to yourself to what you, like what's important to you or what's not. 

[01:13:39] Eldar: In the attention span field, I don't think so. 

[01:13:41] Mike: Well, not attention span, other things, right? 

[01:13:44] Eldar: Maybe certain things, yeah. But I'm, just this specific thing, I think that you, you missing the point.

[01:13:48] Because then you'll do things, not... It's a forceful thing into the attention span versus just knowing 

[01:13:54] Mike: it- No, I, I don't think you can force your attention span anyway. Like, uh- 

[01:13:57] Eldar: I agree ... for, for a long time. I agree. You might be able to sit down and read a book, but then you- Yeah ... you might not be in the book.

[01:14:01] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:14:02] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, it's a, a... I don't know if I'm describing it proper. I don't know if people understand, but do you understand what I'm trying to say? 

[01:14:09] Toliy: Yeah. Like, I, I like I know what, what you're trying to... there, there's something that, that Mike says sometimes where it's like, like something, um, like, um, al- oftentimes it's on the subject of like doing the right thing.

[01:14:20] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:14:21] Toliy: I think this is in that family. It's like a choice. It, this is in that family. It's like, yeah. But like, yeah, versus like not what you want to do or not want to do, but what's the right thing to like do. Mm-hmm. 

[01:14:28] Mike: Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:14:29] Toliy: And trying to do that- Mm-hmm ... without actually agreeing- Yes ... with, with that. I think that this is that.

[01:14:33] Mike: No, but I'm not, you can't... Uh, my point about the agreement part is comes, when you have enough knowledge or understanding of it in order to then, you don't have to agree, but it just- It's done. Yeah It's there. But the thing is, a lot of times- 

[01:14:45] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:14:45] Mike: people misgauge or don't properly gauge their actual knowledge on the stuff.

[01:14:50] That's why they, like for example, like why- Therefore, it'd 

[01:14:52] Eldar: be impossible for them to value it. It's impossible. Yeah. Yeah. But- The value comes... The actual value is not a, it's not a proposition or a discussion, it's a action. 

[01:15:02] Toliy: Mm-hmm. Yes. That- 

[01:15:04] Eldar: Well- ... 

[01:15:04] Toliy: that's what I was saying, that it's, it's a result of action. 

[01:15:06] Eldar: Yes.

[01:15:06] Toliy: And on only like- 

[01:15:08] Eldar: Only through m- Yeah ... repetitive action that you show that you value it. That's why like- 

[01:15:12] Toliy: Yeah ... if you're judging the person's character- And 

[01:15:12] Eldar: you 

[01:15:12] Toliy: never 

[01:15:13] Eldar: have 

[01:15:13] Toliy: to say that- Yeah ... you value it. Only other people can be like, "Oh, that guy values that." Because he keeps doing 

[01:15:18] Eldar: that. Like 

[01:15:18] Toliy: you see. Yes. Be- yes, that's the action behind it.

[01:15:21] No. But that only act, but the o- but the only reason that person keeps doing that is because they have an understanding behind it. Correct That is why 

[01:15:29] Mike: So 

[01:15:29] Toliy: it- The price is valuing ... I already baked it into 

[01:15:31] Mike: him. 

[01:15:31] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:15:31] Mike: Yeah. So explain then, then, for example, with the weight, weight stuff, with the, with the healthy lifestyle things you were doing.

[01:15:37] Yeah. At that time he was what? How, give me the w- in the way that I'm describing it wrong, so give me the right way that you would describe it. He was doing certain things- 

[01:15:46] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:15:46] Mike: because he thought they were important or he valued them. How would you phrase it? 

[01:15:50] Eldar: You have to speak for yourself.

[01:15:52] Mike: Yeah, you can s- Why 

[01:15:52] Eldar: were you doing them? 'Cause they felt good. There you go. 

[01:15:56] Mike: Okay. 

[01:15:57] Eldar: He convinced himself that they felt good in that moment. 

[01:16:00] Mike: Okay and then is it good to, I mean, obviously it feels good. 

[01:16:04] So then why did you stop doing that? Like, why did you then not do it? Why did that, that break?

[01:16:10] Why did you stay a- go away from the- 

[01:16:11] Eldar: It didn't feel good anymore. 

[01:16:13] Mike: What? 

[01:16:14] Eldar: How? It di- it, h- how? Well- Yeah ... I think that if you don't forese- if you don't actually foresee everything, that whole line of thought that you have behind the plan properly- ... with understanding, it will not be sustainable.

[01:16:28] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:28] Eldar: Somewhere there was a chink in his armor- 

[01:16:29] ... 

[01:16:29] Eldar: And he finally reached it- Mm-hmm ... and that's why he dropped it. 

[01:16:32] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:16:32] Eldar: Now I think he's picking up the pieces where he dropped it in order to prolong it, in order to finally get stuck with it, right? 

[01:16:38] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:39] Eldar: And I think that that's why he's bringing up a new variable here.

[01:16:42] What is he bringing up? Attention span. 

[01:16:44] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:44] Eldar: He realized that this is a bigger boss. 

[01:16:46] Mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:16:48] Eldar: You know what I mean? The, th- therefore, like, if the attention span is not baked in into the things that he's doing- 

[01:16:54] ... 

[01:16:54] Eldar: Properly, then he, he won't, he won't last. 

[01:16:56] Mike: Mm-hmm. 

[01:16:56] Eldar: He'll f- uh, fall somewhere again- 

[01:16:59] Mike: Yeah

[01:17:00] Eldar: because of lack- Mm ... of understanding. 

[01:17:02] Yes? 

[01:17:03] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:17:03] Mike: Yeah, my whole thing of, like, the value- Yeah ... the, and the way I use it I'm using it because to me it feels like it's a lack of knowledge 

[01:17:12] Eldar: It is a lack of knowledge 

[01:17:13] Mike: And that's how I'm connecting it. Yeah. So the person- 

[01:17:15] Toliy: But, 

[01:17:16] Mike: but 

[01:17:16] Toliy: you can't, but, but you can't like not value or value something because like you, like you wouldn't be able to speak that way.

[01:17:23] If you bring 

[01:17:24] Mike: up- No, it's, it definitely like, uh, it's paradoxical or it doesn't, it's not, it's illogical, but if you have enough knowledge on something, then you will naturally, um- Choose it ... you will choose it. Yeah. You will value it. 100%. You will act in accordance with it. Yeah. 

[01:17:37] Toliy: Well, no, you won't, you won't like- Value that

[01:17:41] I don't think that you'll value it. Yeah, I think that, yeah, the, the, the valuing is just, like to, to me, the only 

[01:17:46] Mike: proper- You will live it. You will do it. Is that better? 

[01:17:48] Toliy: You will own it. Yeah. 

[01:17:49] Mike: Yeah. Sure. It'll be yours. Yeah.

[01:17:51] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:17:52] Mike: But and then it is valuable- Oh, wait, wait ... to you, right? 

[01:17:54] Toliy: It, it, 

[01:17:55] Eldar: it is 

[01:17:55] Toliy: you.

[01:17:56] Mike: It is you. Yeah. 

[01:17:57] Eldar: It is in your character now. Yeah. It's like it's part of you. Yeah. 

[01:18:00] Toliy: Yeah. 'Cause, 'cause I think that like the, the way that you're phrasing it is that like there's something that you do- 

[01:18:05] Eldar: Yes ... 

[01:18:05] Toliy: and then the action like follows behind it, where it's like it's the action and then the, the, like the value's extracted from the action, not you first value something, then you do action.

[01:18:16] It's, it 

[01:18:17] Mike: just like- So which way is it? You first you value something, then you act, or you act, then you value? 

[01:18:20] Toliy: Well, no, so value, no, so like value is just an observation of the actions that, that you're doing. 

[01:18:25] Mike: That you're taking. 

[01:18:25] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:18:26] Mike: Yeah. Okay, so maybe, I mean, value, like the way I think about value, it's like something that's important to you, not of value.

[01:18:36] That, to me, that's two different things.

[01:18:41] Eldar: Yeah, I mean 

[01:18:42] Mike: I'm not saying that it's of value, but I think it is obviously of value. Like, it's, uh, it, it provides a value, living a, a good life, a healthy life, a honest life. That has value. 

[01:18:53] Eldar: Sure, it does. 

[01:18:54] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:18:54] Eldar: You could say it like that. 

[01:18:55] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:18:55] Eldar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:18:56] Mike: And 

[01:18:56] Eldar: we wouldn't disagree with that 

[01:18:57] Mike: statement. Yeah, yeah.

[01:18:58] That's how... And that's the way I'm using the word value. Mm-hmm. I'm not saying, like- 

[01:19:02] Toliy: But, but I don't think that you can value something- Mm-hmm ... and then you do something, like, 

[01:19:07] Mike: from that. You can't say, "You know what? I value respect, and now I'm gonna be respect you." Yeah. Like, that's not how it works. Yes. And I don't bel-

[01:19:13] N- I'm not saying that's how it is, but- That's how it was sounding, at least. 

[01:19:16] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:19:17] Mike: Oh. 

[01:19:18] Toliy: Yeah, like, you were saying that, like, you need to val- you value particular things, and then- Act out of that ... and then you act out, out of those values that, like, you have. 

[01:19:27] Versus, like... yeah, like, like that.

[01:19:29] Like, that, that, that I think is what we're saying is, like, in- incorrect 

[01:19:35] Eldar: What, what we're saying is that if you understand it and actually have the knowledge behind it You will act in accordance to that 

[01:19:43] Toliy: Yeah 

[01:19:44] Eldar: You know what I mean? And the value is there already. Like, you're displaying values- For, for only- Just describing what's 

[01:19:48] Mike: happening.

[01:19:49] Toliy: Yeah. Yeah. And, and the val- values are, are fluid based on your level of understanding at the moment. 

[01:19:56] Eldar: That too, yeah. 

[01:19:56] Toliy: Because, yeah, like you could say that like, hey, like you, you value, uh, I don't know, waking up early, right? Or s- something. But then you stop waking up early. 

[01:20:05] Eldar: Yeah. And then you don't value that anymore.

[01:20:07] Toliy: Then you don't value it. 

[01:20:08] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:20:08] Toliy: Right? Something about your understanding, for example, changes. 

[01:20:10] Eldar: Yeah, that's, that's a big trap. Yeah. The value trap is a big trap. Yeah. And you gotta be very careful of it, because y- if you don't identify properly, say, "I value waking up early, but not on Saturdays when I watch UFC till 2:00 in the morning"- 

[01:20:22] Toliy: Yes

[01:20:22] Eldar: right, if you don't define that- 

[01:20:24] Toliy: Yes ... 

[01:20:24] Eldar: well, then you, you're a liar- 

[01:20:26] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[01:20:26] Eldar: for the degree of 

[01:20:27] Toliy: saying that you- And you're setting yourself up to hate waking up early. 

[01:20:29] Eldar: Correct. 

[01:20:30] Toliy: Over time. Yeah. You're, you're, you're gonna, like, um, cripple yourself, because you're not gonna enjoy what you're doing naturally- 

[01:20:37] Eldar: Nat- correct

[01:20:37] Toliy: because there's gonna be force- 

[01:20:39] Eldar: Correct ... 

[01:20:39] Toliy: behind it and not making sense behind 

[01:20:41] Eldar: it. Yeah. And then you're gonna be resentful 

[01:20:42] Toliy: towards yourself. Why does it make sense for you to wake up early when you went to bed late, for example? 

[01:20:46] Eldar: And plenty of people, obviously we know, push themselves- 

[01:20:48] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[01:20:48] Eldar: past that point, where it's like, "Oh, fuck- 

[01:20:50] Toliy: Yeah

[01:20:50] Eldar: I stayed up till 2:00 in the morning. I didn't account for that, but I still gotta wake up at 6:00 in the morning to fucking check those boxes." You become just a check, a box checker, a resentful box checker that starts to grow over a period of time. Next thing you know, you're waking up, you're like, "What the fuck am I doing?"

[01:21:04] And then you finally start waking up late, and you feel better, but internally you still have the guilt- guilty conscience about yourself, and you're beating yourself up, so you feel like a piece of shit, and you're just in a perpetual loop of that. That's why I was asking Toliy about the grace part. I wanted to know whether or not he's found a way to give himself a little bit more grace to know that like, "Look, I had a process.

[01:21:23] I like the process, but something about the process fell through, and I made a mistake somewhere down the line." 

[01:21:28] Toliy: Yeah. "

[01:21:29] Eldar: Do I give myself enough grace here, or do I beat myself up, and tell myself that I'm a piece of shit? Or do I kinda like..." No, it's okay. I knew that the, something was gonna come up, and maybe even in this process right now, something might come up where he might misstep.

[01:21:41] But that's okay. That's part of the process as well. If you give yourself enough of that le- leeway, the process of dormancy, let's just say right now, is baked in into that process, therefore you give yourself more self-love and patience within that dormancy period. So if you do do that, I think that it's a lot less painful, and more likely you will return back to your better self, quote-unquote, sooner than later with that type of an approach.

[01:22:12] Yeah. That's what I was trying to get out of him, he didn't talk about it so, but whatever. 

[01:22:17] Toliy: Yeah. But it's also, is that like... Yeah, yeah, I definitely give myself, I feel like, like- 

[01:22:21] Eldar: More grace ... 

[01:22:22] Toliy: y- no- nowhere near in comparison as how I was before. 

[01:22:26] Before I did not give myself any, any grace.

[01:22:29] But, um- Yeah, I just feel like this time around it's like, to, to me to like... Your, your goal is obviously to misstep less and less, and to have, like, the holes be less and less deep over time, obviously. Yeah. 

[01:22:45] Eldar: Right? But I think you have to be also fair- 

[01:22:47] Toliy: Yes ... 

[01:22:47] Eldar: with yourself. 

[01:22:48] Toliy: Yes. 

[01:22:48] Eldar: That there are, there are a lot of- Yes

[01:22:49] variables in life. 

[01:22:50] Toliy: Yeah. But to me, yeah, like, the, the, yeah, like, the, uh, the, the reason I'm in, like, where I, where I am now in comparison to, like, before is, yeah, through ignorance and arrogance. 

[01:23:02] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:23:04] Toliy: Yeah, like o- only through that, you know? 

[01:23:07] Eldar: Mm-hmm. 

[01:23:07] Toliy: And now, like, when I think about that I'm almost like like now, like the f- like the first few days that I'm waking up early, like, I feel like I'm, like, cherishing it, you know?

[01:23:16] Mm. Like, I feel like I'm more like, um- 

[01:23:18] Eldar: You're extracting more from it 

[01:23:19] Toliy: now. Yeah, I'm, like, more like, um, like- 

[01:23:22] Eldar: Savoring the moment. 

[01:23:22] Toliy: Yeah, yeah. Where, like, I, like I, I felt like after I did it enough times it was like a whatever thing. Like it wasn't like- Oh. Like it wasn't as big of a deal- 

[01:23:31] Eldar: You see? ... 

[01:23:31] Toliy: over time.

[01:23:32] Eldar: Oh, there you go. 

[01:23:33] Toliy: You know? That was big. And now, and now it's the biggest deal every time it's happening now. And- 

[01:23:37] Eldar: That means he's has the, he's has the ability to stretch his attention for that moment, for that day specifically to be in that moment a little bit longer. That's good. Yeah, 

[01:23:47] Toliy: yeah. 

[01:23:48] Eldar: That's good. 

[01:23:49] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:23:50] Eldar: Yeah. That's a- that's very good. You took it for granted and you kind of normalized it, but now you see it again for what it is. 

[01:23:58] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:23:58] Mike: Yeah, that's, it, like, um, that what he described, you know, just now, is that, like, in a way he removed things from his life that weren't serving him, like the way he was eating, the way he was sleeping, the way he was, like, you know, engaging things.

[01:24:11] And then I'm a-guessing he s- he started adding things, but not thinking about how it's gonna affect the stuff that he had already. His good sleeping, good morning routine, good diet, exercise, and that affected that because the addition part didn't really factor into the other things, the ripples, dominoes that would follow.

[01:24:34] Eldar: Yeah. If you, like I said, there's some, if there's some kind of miscalculation there you might not even know what you're doing. Yeah. For example, um, if you have a goal in mind, right? And the overarching goal- 

[01:24:47] ... 

[01:24:47] Eldar: Is the umbrella of the smaller goals, that can be a problem, too. Example. 

[01:24:52] Mike: What do you mean?

[01:24:52] Yeah. 

[01:24:52] Eldar: Example, I'm gonna start doing these things, right? In order to then grow the team bigger or something like that. 

[01:25:01] Okay? He starts doing those things assuming that A follows B. But when A doesn't follow B- 

[01:25:08] ... 

[01:25:08] Eldar: Discouragement can come in as well. 

[01:25:09] Mike: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[01:25:10] Eldar: You know what I'm saying? 

[01:25:11] Mike: Yeah, yeah. 

[01:25:12] Eldar: So those things no longer are, like, they're not s- well, they're not synchronized, right?

[01:25:19] Mm-hmm. They're not supposed to be synchronized. Yeah. He never seen them as not synchronized. He synchronized them together saying that there's gonna be a correlation there. 

[01:25:26] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:25:27] Eldar: They're not independently on their own. 

[01:25:30] You know what I'm saying? So, like, you can make those types of mistakes where you assume that, like, "Oh, I'm doing the good, the right stuff.

[01:25:35] I'm moving here, here, here," but there's an overarching umbrella goal that you want, and if you're not getting that, the dis- dis- dissatisfaction is gonna be, is gonna grow. It's 100% gonna be there. In order to finally push you- Well, no, I- ... in the right direction of saying that you are actually wrong again- And then see things for what they are and disassociate the two- 

[01:25:55] Toliy: Mm-hmm

[01:25:55] Eldar: sleeping on time or whatever. Call it for sleeping for what it is. That's it. This has nothing to do with anything else. That might be a wrong association as well, and I think a lot of people fall into this trap as well. 

[01:26:05] Toliy: Yeah, and what happens during that kind of process which thing that you're spot on on, but what happens during that process is what?

[01:26:15] When those associations and predictions that, like, you created- 

[01:26:20] Eldar: Mm-hmm ... 

[01:26:20] Toliy: are not leading you to get what you want- 

[01:26:22] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:26:23] Toliy: what happens? 

[01:26:24] Eldar: You start feeling bad. You start 

[01:26:25] Toliy: feeling bad. You start falling off, and you start- You start feeling stressed. 

[01:26:27] Eldar: Yeah, you start feeling 

[01:26:28] Toliy: pain. You start feeling suffering. 

[01:26:29] Eldar: Yeah. And- And then 

[01:26:29] Toliy: you need to 

[01:26:30] Eldar: relieve it

[01:26:30] Toliy: and, and what then happens? Can you be in the mindset or in the act of a, of a a, a long-term thinker or a long-term ROI person? No. 

[01:26:41] Eldar: No. 

[01:26:41] Toliy: Now you need to act out of stress and pain. 

[01:26:44] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:26:44] Toliy: And what do you need to do? 

[01:26:45] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:26:46] Toliy: Be a piss pig. 

[01:26:47] Eldar: Be a piss pig. 

[01:26:48] Back to 

[01:26:48] Toliy: pissing. Like that, yeah. That, that's what it is.

[01:26:50] So you, you assume things, for example. 

[01:26:53] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:26:54] Toliy: You bundle them together. 

[01:26:55] Eldar: Yes. 

[01:26:55] Toliy: You created predictions for particular outcomes that will happen if, if you do this. 

[01:26:59] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:00] Toliy: And now your patience is thin on the long-term plays that you're trying to do- Mm-hmm ... that are not yielding the, the instant ROI that you're- 

[01:27:09] Eldar: After

[01:27:09] Toliy: now, now after. 

[01:27:10] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:11] Toliy: And then, yeah, before you know it, the no- no, you're obviously gonna... who the fuck's gonna continue with that kind of shit? 

[01:27:16] Eldar: Yeah. Who the 

[01:27:17] Toliy: hell's gonna 

[01:27:17] Eldar: con- So there was, there was wrong reasoning behind it in the first place. 

[01:27:18] Toliy: Yeah. Who's gonna continue making l- long-term deposits

[01:27:23] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:27:23] Toliy: for down the line- 

[01:27:24] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:27:24] Toliy: out- outcomes? Yeah. When, when you have current real time suffering? 

[01:27:28] Eldar: Yeah. Especially if you are, you know, um, employing discipline or a certain level of sacrifice to the beginning stages of it. 

[01:27:38] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:27:39] Eldar: You know what I mean? And a lot of people do this as well- 

[01:27:42] Toliy: Yeah ... 

[01:27:42] Eldar: like I said.

[01:27:43] So yeah, I think that striking the balance 

[01:27:45] Toliy: is- They, they just grow more mad faster, the people that do that. 

[01:27:48] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:49] Toliy: Because then they're furious. 

[01:27:50] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:27:51] Toliy: I did all this for that? 

[01:27:52] Eldar: For that and then nothing. 

[01:27:53] Toliy: Are you kidding me? 

[01:27:54] Eldar: Yeah. What the fuck? 

[01:27:55] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:27:57] Eldar: All right. So w- why'd you lead us here, man? The fuck's your problem?

[01:28:02] Because right now- 

[01:28:03] You basically saying a lot of bullshit, man. 

[01:28:08] Toliy: Yeah, I don't know, 

[01:28:09] Eldar: like to me- The fuck do you want from, from, from us or from the listeners? Yeah, 

[01:28:11] Toliy: I mean, look- 

[01:28:11] Eldar: What the hell is your problem, man? ... you 

[01:28:12] Toliy: know I only said this out loud because I know that majority of people that'll listen to this will forget it within 24 hours of listening it to it, or, or less.

[01:28:20] Eldar: This is not- So I know that- The ... But guys, if you are listening, especially the closest ones, the ones that are in Europe. 

[01:28:28] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:28:29] Eldar: This is not a call to action for you to start making reminders. Don't let Toliy bait you into this. 

[01:28:34] Toliy: Yeah. Well, 

[01:28:35] Eldar: no- To listen more or to relisten ... you, you're not gonna be baited. 

[01:28:37] Toliy: Yeah, like- 

[01:28:38] Eldar: I'm just saying, 

[01:28:38] Toliy: you know?

[01:28:38] No one's gonna act on anything here. 

[01:28:40] Eldar: Okay. 

[01:28:40] Toliy: For the most part,

[01:28:41] Eldar: yeah. Be nice. So, 

[01:28:42] Toliy: like, I also ... Yeah. No, I'm just like- 

[01:28:44] Eldar: Okay ... 

[01:28:44] Toliy: even if I'm not, even if I'm not, not, not nice, they're gonna forget it in a half an hour- 

[01:28:47] Eldar: Okay, fine ... 

[01:28:48] Toliy: of listening. You know, they're gonna move on. 

[01:28:50] So yeah, that's why I s- yeah.

[01:28:53] It ... To, to to me, like, this is just something so like blatant and so like, um, so real that, like, it's very difficult for me to ignore. And I'm definitely- 

[01:29:04] Eldar: Did you, did you feel like the ... Did, did you feel the ethical duty in order to say it out loud? 

[01:29:08] Toliy: I don't know about ethical duty, but I definitely felt like I gotta say it.

[01:29:10] Eldar: Yeah. You wanna give, give, give the heads up, right, to the- 

[01:29:12] Toliy: Yeah ... the 

[01:29:13] Eldar: fellow men. 

[01:29:14] Toliy: Give, give the heads up. No, I just feel that, like, it's, i- it's definitely at least for me, it feels important. And yeah, like that, that topic of attention span like I had a thought about this. I don't know if you remember, like a few months back I was talking about it, attention.

[01:29:30] Eldar: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[01:29:31] Toliy: You know? But like yeah, now it just continues to like show its face and I'm definitely interested to like explore it as to like what's going on here, how do you go about like- 

[01:29:41] ... 

[01:29:41] Toliy: Getting one to begin with. Like, how do you like- Yeah ... you know, like how do you, how do, how do you do this?

[01:29:47] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:29:47] Toliy: But I ... Yeah, I think ultimately what I'm, what I'm after is like I wanna be able to consciously think so that I don't have to consciously think. Like obviously, right? 

[01:29:56] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:29:56] Toliy: But right now I need to put myself in a position where I can consciously think because when I do, I do feel like I get what I want out of 

[01:30:03] Eldar: life.

[01:30:03] But you gotta be careful with, with the way you say the word, "I have to put myself into the position." You have to do shit, bro. 

[01:30:10] Toliy: No, yeah. I want to put myself. 

[01:30:13] Eldar: You see? 

[01:30:13] Toliy: No, I want to do these things. You see? 

[01:30:14] Eldar: Yeah. The choice of words makes a biggest- Yeah ... a biggest impact. 

[01:30:17] Toliy: Yeah. No, I want to do these things because like, yeah, if I don't, like, 

[01:30:20] What else am I gonna do?

[01:30:21] Again, like- 

[01:30:22] Eldar: Yeah ... 

[01:30:22] Toliy: like- What, 

[01:30:23] Eldar: what's the point? ... 

[01:30:23] Toliy: if I'm not gonna work on figuring this out- 

[01:30:25] Eldar: Yeah, who else 

[01:30:26] Toliy: will? ... like, like yeah. Well, no, not, not anyone else will. And Brother Toliy's 

[01:30:28] Eldar: not doing it, you know? In 2026, then what the fuck, man? Then we're 

[01:30:32] Toliy: doomed.

[01:30:34] Eldar: Mike, what do you think? Is he onto something or is he just fucking rambling saying, "Bunch of bullshit, man"?

[01:30:39] Bunch of bullshit, Mike. Probably 

[01:30:40] Toliy: 50/50. 

[01:30:41] Eldar: 50/50. 

[01:30:43] Mike: No, I don't know. 

[01:30:44] Toliy: I think 

[01:30:44] Eldar: he's onto something. I think he's onto something. I think, I think that he's raising awareness- I think so ... of what we do here, right? We've been raising awareness for the fucking 218 episodes. I just fucking ran the numbers. Grok said 436 hours.

[01:30:58] Gemini said 417 hours of conversations about raising awareness on our human condition

[01:31:07] You know what I'm saying? Is he... I think he is. 

[01:31:10] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:31:10] Eldar: I think he is. I think he, again, is proposing a very universal thing that a lot of us suffer or a lot of us think about in passing consciously or subconsciously

[01:31:24] Toliy: Yeah, I think ultimately, like, it's just like the, the ultimate question is of like, you're one of those people that perpetually say that like, "Hey," like you're tired of this or you're tired of this kind of life or you want better. Like, you have to prove it. 

[01:31:38] Eldar: You have to prove it. 

[01:31:38] Toliy: Yeah. Or just shut your mouth.

[01:31:42] Eldar: Yeah. 

[01:31:42] Because everything that's gonna come out of your mouth is most likely arrogant. 

[01:31:45] Toliy: A bunch of bullshit. A 

[01:31:46] Eldar: bunch of bullshit. Yeah. 

[01:31:49] Yeah. Put up or shut up, huh? 

[01:31:52] Mike: Yeah. 

[01:31:53] Toliy: All 

[01:31:53] Eldar: right, so- I think that's 

[01:31:54] Mike: the ul- ultimate thing about- Everything? ... living a good life is you gotta prove it to yourself that you want it I agree You know?

[01:32:03] Yeah. If you don't- Then you don't ... then you don't. And if you do, then- You do ... you do. But it's a big, uh, different, the optics look totally different. 

[01:32:13] Toliy: Yeah. See, I feel like if we wanna say like God created like the Earth and like people and like all mankind, I think that like the number one skill, like other than the ability to like think I think the number one thing that everybody has that's like the, this is the salvation I think to endure all these things, is your imagination.

[01:32:36] Mike: Hmm. 

[01:32:36] Toliy: And I think that like, a lot of kids shows and like different things talks about imagination. 

[01:32:43] Um, but I think, but I don't think that like many kids when they grow up they like grasp this concept. Mm-hmm. Maybe even like adults. Yeah. You know? But I think that your imagination is a salvation for you to go through all this and to endure,

[01:32:59] Mike: As long as you don't take it too far.

[01:33:01] Toliy: Well, 

[01:33:02] Mike: but- Some, some guys walk around as girls and some girls walk around as guys.

[01:33:06] Toliy: Well, yeah. 

[01:33:07] Mike: I, I think there's a perfectly good explanation 

[01:33:09] Eldar: for that as well. 

[01:33:09] Toliy: Yeah. I 

[01:33:10] Mike: agree. 

[01:33:10] Eldar: You know? 

[01:33:11] Toliy: Yeah. I'm just joking. Yeah. I just feel that like, if, if you can leverage your imagination- Yeah ... I think that you have the ability to, um, like stretch your r- reality like beyond your ignorances over time.

[01:33:30] Eldar: Over time. 

[01:33:30] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:33:31] Eldar: So it should 

[01:33:32] Toliy: be promoted. And I think that like if you didn't have an imagination, it'd be very difficult to, I think, to accomplish anything. 

[01:33:39] To go through, through like anything. Yeah, because I think you have the ability to like imagine. I think that that is like one of the biggest skills that you can have if you're looking for change.

[01:33:52] Eldar: Imagination. 

[01:33:52] Toliy: Yeah. 

[01:33:53] Eldar: Okay. Well, we're gonna have to expand on that next se- next, uh, episode.

[01:33:57] Toliy: Sounds 

[01:33:57] Eldar: like, yeah. Well, were those your final thoughts? 

[01:33:59] Toliy: Yeah, I'm done for now. 

[01:34:00] Eldar: Mike? 

[01:34:01] Toliy: Nothing. 

[01:34:01] Eldar: Yeah. No, this was great, guys. Thank you again. Have a good night. 

[01:34:05] Mike: Thank you. Oh, wow. Are we live? 

[01:34:06] Are we live? Are we live?

[01:34:10] Are we live?